Wikipedia:Reference desk/Miscellaneous

Welcome to the miscellaneous section
of the Wikipedia reference desk.

skip to bottom

Select a section:

• Computing
• Entertainment
• Humanities
• Language
• Mathematics
• Science
• Miscellaneous
• Archives

Want a faster answer?

Main page: Help searching Wikipedia

   

How can I get my question answered?

• Select the section of the desk that best fits the general topic of your question (see the navigation column to the right).
• Post your question to only one section, providing a short header that gives the topic of your question.
• Type '~~~~' (that is, four tilde characters) at the end – this signs and dates your contribution so we know who wrote what and when.
• Don't post personal contact information – it will be removed. Any answers will be provided here.
• Please be as specific as possible, and include all relevant context – the usefulness of answers may depend on the context.
• Note:
  • We don't answer (and may remove) questions that require medical diagnosis or legal advice.
  • We don't answer requests for opinions, predictions or debate.
  • We don't do your homework for you, though we'll help you past the stuck point.
  • We don't conduct original research or provide a free source of ideas, but we'll help you find information you need.

Ready? Ask a new question!

How do I answer a question?

Main page: Wikipedia:Reference desk/Guidelines

• The best answers address the question directly, and back up facts with wikilinks and links to sources. Do not edit others' comments and do not give any medical or legal advice.

See also:

• Teahouse
• Help desk
• Village pump
• Help manual

July 10

Croissant Frustration

OK so I've made this recipe with no drama before, but both batches today have been giving me the same problem: after I've filled the dough with butter and done a single fold, I roll the dough out to find that the butter has leaked out one of the sides. It seems like the top layer is being rolled out, but not the bottom... I can think of a few causes, like 1. under-flouring the rolling surface 2. not enough flour in the dough 3. bad rolling pin technique

Any ideas what would cause this?72.219.136.28 (talk) 04:37, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Keep the dough cold. The dough should be kept as cold as possible. You should use ice-water for all of your water needs, and if it is warm where you are working, a good solution is to keep a sheet pan in the freezer, and take it out just before rolling, so that the dough is rolled out on a very cold surface. The problem you seem to be having, if the butter is leaking, is that it is melting. The butter really needs to be rock hard to be incorporated correctly into the pastry. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 04:52, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

This trick may work for you: roll out the butter between two sheets of wax paper or Parchment paper (baking) to a thinner square and put that in the freezer for a bit. Then fold that into the cold rolled out dough. 71.236.26.74 (talk) 05:54, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

I keep everything cold, but now I'm thinking there's a fault in the recipe. I like the idea of the cold butter square, because what this recipe does is take room temp butter and spread it on there, fold, then roll. Maybe an intermediate step between folding and rolling would help! i don't quite heave the dexterity to get a well-sized butter rectangle so maybe I'll keep with the room-temp butter but once I have it in the single fold, chill it so it doesn't ooze.72.219.136.28 (talk) 06:22, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

If you can't get a well-sized butter rectangle between two sheets of paper it sounds as though you are trying to get there too fast. Go slow and don't apply too much pressure. Slow and steady gets more results than force and speed. Too little pressure of course also won't work. Start with very little and then apply more each roll until you get the hang of it. 71.236.26.74 (talk) 10:30, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Oh, and alternate rolling directions. --71.236.26.74 (talk) 11:28, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Indians-killed??

Does the western world really hate the indians, why are they being ill treated/killed in countries like like Aus ,NZ and the rest and that too students, understood , if they were some menace like terrorists groups or outlaws?? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 61.95.140.188 (talk) 10:33, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Your question is not very clear. Can you give us any examples of the actions you're referring to please?91.109.212.49 (talk) 11:35, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

To reassure you.... No the western world does not hate Indians. I live in England and we have Indian stars on our TV, we have Indian music in our shops, my daughter goes to school with children from Indian families, etc. You may have seen some troubling news reports about relations between different nations but unfortunately this sort of this is constantly going on all over the world.Popcorn II (talk) 11:47, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Is this a question about Islam? You might be interested to read Christianity in India#Conflicts and related topics.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 12:27, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

There's been a spate of attacks (some fatal) on Indian students in Australia over the past year and a half, to the point where Indian student groups have held large rallies in Melbourne and Sydney, and probably other places, to protest their right to live, work and study peacefully. It's deplorable, as any violence is, but it does not mean that Australians in general hate Indians. Indian food, for example, has long been a favourite with Australians. For some reason, Indian students seem to be easy targets for mindless morons, many of whom, imo, are simply copycats. The police keep on saying there's no evidence that the attacks are racially based, which I can't quite fathom because there seems to be an inordinately high proportion of attacks on Indians compared with other victims. There have been no attacks on Sri Lankans that I've heard of, yet most people would be hard pressed to tell Indians and Sri Lankans apart. So it seems to be specifically Indians that are being targetted (admittedly, there are probably far more Indians here than Sri Lankans, but the latter still have a certain profile). Maybe the Indian attacks are getting a fair bit of press coverage lately and thus seem more statistically prominent than they actually are. -- JackofOz (talk) 12:37, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

2009 attacks on Indian students in Australia Calliopejen1 (talk) 12:54, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Humans have had to adjusted to ever wider circles of "us" and "not us" throughout their development and at every stage there's repeated proof of the occasional individual or group who doesn't get it and bucks the trend. Not killing off one's family was the first adjustment and the occasional murders within families tell us that not everyone has even reached that stage (see Infanticide and Honor killing). Then we go to not killing one's tribe members, and again there are counter examples (see Feud). Continue the chain up through villages, cities, countries, nations, ethnicities , fellow humans and for vegetarians/vegans include animals. We create laws to counter-balance "good reasons" (AKA crazy ideas and ideologies) put forward in favor of singling out "others". Sometimes that's not enough. We just haven't developed that far from the ape that climbed off the tree and picked up a stick to beat up his neighbor. 71.236.26.74 (talk) 13:04, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

The media seem to have over dramatized this, people from other ethnic groups are being murdered occasionally too, such as Anglos and Chinese. But you will probably find that Aus and NZ are still much safer than South Africa for example. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 22:27, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

I'm South African, where do you get your information from? The western media? There haven't been ethnic attacks against Indians in South Africa, only a spate of xenophobic attacks against blacks from other African countries last year, and that's over now. Sure, we have a crime problem here, but FIFA wouldn't have allowed the Confederations Cup or World Cup here if they thought it was that unsafe. We are not in a war zone, like some places in the middle east. People who are vigilant tend to avoid crime here. Sandman30s (talk) 20:34, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Asians, especially Chinese and Indians now make up the majority in most inner cities and suburbs of Australia. Since at night there are few if any white people around, then simple numbers state that Indians will be targeted most especially as they now own most after hours businesses and shops. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Payneham (talk • contribs) 00:28, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

An interesting topic; Most nations are pretty much the same; when a Non-Native person is killed in a country this is usualy highlighted to great Extent by the media! plus the home nation of the Victim. A prime example of this is the recent stabbing of a Egyption women in a German court, this has understanbly hit the media and has caused outrage in Egypt (Hajib martyr to coin a phrase). However If this women had been stabbed in a honur killing in the home country it certainly wouldnt have hit the media with the same fever. Again if this was an English women stabbed by an English man in England again it would hit page 10 in the media but then story would vanish from the media, there wouldnt be mass rallies ECT...I am sure there are many such killings by Forigners in many countries that produce the same effect but wouldnt if it was your home nation/ethnicity. the Mass paranoia that exists about race/religion is indemic in every country in every part of the world. this is shown recently in China were the riots span from one person telling a lie about a apperent rape and this esculating to something quite catastrophic, once the media dig and around and ask people then it becomes a race issue with people not getting jobs being over looked ECT... The idea that a single group is rooted out for attacks in Australia is un-true - again this has proberly spanned from a perticular incident and then esculated simlar to ChinaChromagnum (talk) 06:10, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Elevators in the Essen Hauptbahnhof

Are there any elevators in the Essen Hauptbahnhof? --88.77.254.114 (talk) 13:33, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

They are currently being revamped. Germany has extensive laws on wheelchair access, but some local stations are still without elevators. A main station like Essen without wheelchair access would be hard to imagine, though. During the remodeling phase elevators to most tracks are out of service and a leaflet with travel alternatives for mobility impaired travelers has been issued according to this .pdf linked from the German page [1]. 71.236.26.74 (talk) 13:48, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

refugee camp in dakar

are there red cross refugee camp in dakar senegal ? If there is, are there refugee girls of some country in africa? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Abysshi (talk • contribs) 14:24, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

The ICRC does not list Senegal in its 2008 report but there were operations in 2006 and 1998. Rmhermen (talk) 15:37, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Board games and elevators

Which surname of a board game designer is also used for elevators? --88.77.235.73 (talk) 14:54, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Otis Elevator and Otis College of Art and Design? Both are/were surnames of individuals, and the college has a product design depratment that does create toys and board games. // BL \\ (talk) 15:17, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Seeing that you are in Germany, I will risk a wild guess. The designer of Coloretto and Zooloretto is Michael Schacht. In German, "Schacht" (or more specifically "Liftschacht" or "Fahrstuhlschacht") means "(elevator) shaft" or "hoistway". ---Sluzzelin talk 16:20, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Now that's an interesting response, Sluzzelin. Ref Desk regulars never cease to astound me. I hope the OP comes back. // BL \\ (talk) 16:53, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

chili

I am looking for a killer chili recipe (killer meaning that people who are not used to very hot food would welcome death if they ate it.) All the ones I have found by googling don't really seem to be up to that level. Any ideas? Googlemeister (talk) 18:26, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Take any chili recipe, add several Habanero or Scotch bonnet peppers to the recipe. You will melt people's teeth with it. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 18:49, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

When would they be added? Early in cooking? Late? Googlemeister (talk) 19:52, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

The master chef at our local Italian restaurant say cooking a chilli kills its killer flavour. So, as late as possible while still cooking it enough for your taste. Vimescarrot (talk) 21:19, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

I do hope you're not planning on tricking people who don't normally eat spicy/hot food into eating this - you could make them very ill. Exxolon (talk) 21:50, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Don't forget the Guatemalan insanity peppers. Deor (talk) 00:21, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

If you're after serious spice, the Naga Jolokia is your friend, at 1/16th the spiciness of pure spicy. Vimescarrot (talk) 09:26, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

I'm not sure if I approve of advising people on how to hurt others . . . DOR (HK) (talk) 03:48, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Truth Revealing Technique Name

What is the name of the technique where: - you are trying to get information from a person. - they refuse to give you the information outright for whatever reasons they have. - then you might say something like that would seem obviously wrong. - then, that person wishing to correct you, blurts out the information you were seeking.

example:

1. Me - So, where are the keys to the car?
2. Her - I'm not going to tell you because daddy says that you are not allowed to drive the car.
3. Me - Fine, I found the keys in the coffee table drawer anyway.
4. Her - That's not the right set of keys. The car keys are in the jewelry box!....dop!

--Reticuli88 (talk) 18:27, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Are you thinking of Social engineering (security)? Dismas|^(talk) 18:37, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

That would be a good way to describe it. 1950s-60s TV host Art Linkletter had a kids' segment on his show, and many of the best comments came as answers to, "What did your Mommy tell you not to talk about today?" Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 18:51, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Exactomundo! thanks! --Reticuli88 (talk) 18:52, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

King Djoser step pyramid

need confirmation, is The Step pyramid made for King Djoser the first step pyramid? It says at http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/dsteppyramid1.htm that "it should be noted that this may not be, in its essence, the first step pyramid. Several small mastabas at Abusir seem to have perhaps had as many as three steps and date to the second half of the 1st Dynasty." Please help <email removed>Violetdetre (talk) 18:59, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

I removed your email address. People will answer here. Our article on Step pyramid indicates that the Pyramid of Djoser is indeed the first Egyptian step pyramid. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 22:47, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

I've been to Saqqara and the Pyramid of Djoser is huge. The Pyramid of Djoser article says "...earliest large-scale stone construction...", and I certainly think they would have tried out the technology on a smaller scale first, especially on such an important project as the Pharaoh's stairway to heaven. The problem with the "...small mastabas at Abusir ... date to the second half of the 1st Dynasty", is our article on Abusir says "Abusir took its turn ... during the Old Kingdom 5th Dynasty." Astronaut (talk) 04:27, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

assessor information

How do I find information on the status of a piece of real estate in Middleburg, florida. Such as: Is it a rental property? Privately owned property? History of this piece of real estate in the last five years, such as ownership, forclosures, present owner, etc? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.175.208.171 (talk) 20:50, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Recording (real estate) gives an overview of the process but no specifics on how to conduct searches. Exxolon (talk) 21:44, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

official [2], [3], [4],[5],

other: [6], [7], [8], [9] Hope this helps.--71.236.26.74 (talk) 21:57, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Barracks in the U.S. Military

A part of the musical Hair (1979) shows an Army barrack inside^{(Bukowski's friend George Berger at the Army)}. In the middle, there are several red objects attached to the columns. What's their name and purpose? They look like ashtrays... Here's a link for youtube, skip to 0:17 or 1:25 for example. Another example: [10] @ 0:33--77.4.64.249 (talk) 23:50, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Precisely - they are typically old coffee cans painted red, and partially filled with water, for the purpose of extinguishing cigarette butts. I think they're call something creative, such as "butt cans". Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 00:10, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

(EC) My guess is that those are fire sand buckets. Red Act (talk) 00:13, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Thanks you guys!! Guess that's indoor smoking in the barracks is historical nowadays in the U.S.A. I think Red Act is right though because the surroundings and the cans are red painted (red being the one and only color for fire fighting). --77.4.64.249 (talk) 00:15, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Red denoting fire, for sure. And they could have sand, but I think it's water. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 00:17, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

The fire sand bucket article says that the reason sand is used instead of water is because oil fires are resistant to water. However, with water, there would also be the issue of the water needing to be replaced on a regular basis due to evaporation, whereas with sand you just fill the bucket once and forget about it. Water gets gross when it stagnates, too, so a bucket kept full of water would need to be cleaned regularly, too, not just refilled. Red Act (talk) 18:49, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

At the time the musical was written, the US army still had a huge number of WWII-era barracks, especially at the bases that were used for basic training. Those barracks had all been built to almost identical designs. They were two stories and made of wood, with one big room on each floor, filled with bunk beds in four rows, a big bathroom at one end and two small rooms for sargents at the other. The pillars were needed because the rooms were so big. Smoking was damn near universal in the army in the 1970's ("At ease, men. smoke 'em if you got 'em.") The Barracks were potential fire traps, being built of (then) 30-year-old wood. The butt cans were "number ten tin cans" (which was then a universally-recognized standard size) which had originally contained canned fruit served at the mess hall, and the cans were painted red. They served both as ash trays and for fire fighting. The danger of fire was so great that each barracks had a fire watch of two soldiers on four-hour shifts throughout the night. -Arch dude (talk) 01:26, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for bringing back memories of Fort Knox in 1978. Fort Hood finally destroyed those temporary barracks around 1993. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 13:38, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

July 11

Downloading pirated material. America vs Canada

Why is it in the united states it seems that there is some type of fear hovered over downloading music and you can even be fined for doing so, yet in canada we can "freely" do it without fear of fines or lawsuits? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ivtv (talk • contribs) 02:13, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

For the same reason that nobody writes viruses to attack Macintosh computers. From the record company's point of view, having a legal team to deal with Canadian law to stop Canadian music pirates is probably not worth the expense. They would be well within their rights to sue in Canadian courts for copyright violations, and basic theft of services, but they don't because, at less than 10% of the U.S. population, it is much more financially lucrative to just concentrate on the U.S. pirates. In otherwords, the return on investment for prosecuting Canadian music thiefs is not good enough to justify it in the same way that it is in the U.S. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 03:14, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Oh no! Canada's actual population is almost 11% of the US population, so this must mean they are about to sue us all after all! --Anonymous (Canadian), 05:50 UTC, July 11, 2009.

Well that was quite the informative response and makes so much sense. Never thought of it that way.Ivtv (talk) 03:28, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Note also that the copyright law in Canada and US is significantly different in its treatment of music downloads:

• In 2003, the Canadian copyright board pronounced that downloading copyrighted music for private use "from peer-to-peer networks is legal in Canada, although uploading files is not". (see this article or page 21 of this report).
• In 2008 the Canadian government proposed to update the copyright law to bring it more in line with international norms, but AFAIK the changes haven't been enacted yet. (see the Copyright Reform Process website)

This difference in law may well explain why RIAA has not succeeded in suing Canadians for downloading copyrighted music (the economic principle explained by Jayron32, may also be a factor). Caveat: I am not a lawyer, and cannot attest under what conditions and circumstances downloading copyrighted music in Canada is legal and if there have been other changes in the law, so as usual, do it at your own risk! Abecedare (talk) 03:56, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Indeed, please do not construe my explanation as advice in any way. Who knows, maybe tomorrow the industry will start suing Canadians. As I noted, they would be well within their rights to do so, pursuant to the differences noted by Abecedare above. --Jayron32.talk.say no to drama 04:31, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

To clarify, I am not trying to justify any actions that I may or may not take part part in in reference the question asked. It was just for informational purposes. Personally I would enjoy getting sued for an insane amount of money seeing how I have very little assets and I would enjoy the 15 mins of fame. Was just curious after reading about swedens laws vs TPB. Ivtv (talk) 05:00, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

I'm inclined to go with Jayron and assume it has to do with the size of Canada vs. U.S. It would be a little like organizing a major protest against fast food and focusing one's energies on White Castle. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 05:05, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

I don't believe the size issue is the primary factor or even necessarily a large one in the lack of Canadian lawsuits. Lawsuits have been brought in countries with a smaller population [11] [12]. The primary reason is probably local laws, and the difficulty, cost and chance of success. As has been mentioned, Canada has various laws which make it far more difficult for actions to be brought, e.g. [13]. Here in NZ, the high cost of data has probably reduced the amount of file sharing, and our size is probably somewhat of a factor (but in pure population terms we aren't much smaller then Singapore and are much larger then Iceland) but another big issue is probably that I don't believe our ISPs have been that cooperative. I'm only aware of one ISP which is known to forward on notices of copyright infrigement and disconnect users after excessive notices (Xnet), the others have tended to ignore such requests and asked those making the notices to go to the police. Unless you can identify the person responsible for the internet account and contact them, how can you target anyone? There was a failed attempt to require disconnection, which likely would have required ISPs to forward on the legal notices they receive (but not necessarily reveal the customer details) which was abandoned after a mini-uprising. Remember if a country has strong privacy laws, and unless there's a clear law or legal order requiring the ISP to give up their customer details to people alleging copyright infrigement, the ISP is not liable to cooperate since that would put them at risk of lawsuits from customers. P.S. It's worth remembering the RIAA is obviously not going to be the ones bringing the lawsuit outside the US, e.g. Canada while part of North America and the Americas, is not America. The CRIA perhaps... Nil Einne (talk) 08:54, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Jayron is wrong in making the idiotic statement "having a legal team to deal with Canadian law to stop Canadian music pirates is probably not worth the expense". The Canadian recording industry brought a number of such lawsuits in 2004 but the Federal Court declined to order various ISPs to disclose the names of the John Doe defendants.[14] Citefixer1965 (talk) 14:52, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Then the Canadian courts were equally idiotic, because such a ruling essentially declares the concept of "copyright" as null and void. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 17:10, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Canada is a signatory of the Berne convention - they can't do that. SteveBaker (talk) 15:36, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

Baseball Bugs, you don't know what you're talking about here. The court's decision[15] was based ultimately on a careful weighing of the strength of the evidence before it against the privacy rights of the ISP’s customers. But in any event, section 80 of the Copyright Act might well have been a valid defence to copyright infringement, in the context of copying music for private use, although it depends on whether the term “audio recording medium” encompasses a computer hard drive. Citefixer1965 (talk) 18:20, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

If they decide that someone's "privacy" would be violated by working to uncover piracy, then the courts basically say "F.U." to copyright. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 01:16, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

So violation of privacy is always justified when working to uncover crime. I take it you'd be happy if, right now, a team of armed soldiers invaded your house to check you aren't harbouring illicit substances? Algebraist 01:26, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Baseball Bugs, you are still missing the point. If you read the decision you will see that the court did not say anything like "f.u." to copyright. What's important is to balance the strength of the evidence in each particular case against the privacy interests involved. In that case, the relevant evidence was all hearsay and therefore inadmissible. In a future case, if the evidence is strong enough to outweigh the privacy interest, then the court would order the ISPs to disclose the name and address sought. Citefixer1965 (talk) 02:15, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Burning a candle in washroom

Suppose if the ventilation fan in one's bathroom is broken and one is defecating and passing flatulence, would lighting a candle in the washroom help remove the unpleasant smell? Acceptable (talk) 03:09, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

A scented candle, sure. I can't see what a regular candle would do. It will cause some minor convection currents but that will just move the smells around the room. --Tango (talk) 03:12, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Would it burn off the methane? Acceptable (talk) 03:19, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Methane is flammable, but the unpleasant odor of flatus is caused by other compounds, like butyric acid, hydrogen sulphide and carbonyl sulphide. So the real question is whether those other compounds can be oxidized into different compounds that don’t smell bad. Red Act (talk) 04:08, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Mythbusters did it. If you look it up on their website, you can probably find the episode. In summation, the best that could be said was that the smell of the burning may mask the odor, but it did not appreciably lower the concentration of the offending compounds in the air. --Jayron32.talk.say no to drama 04:30, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Not surprising. Even if the compounds can be oxidized by the flame, they are dispersed through the air and this oxidization will only take place in one small place, affecting only a small part. There isn't enough concentration of the compounds for the reaction to propagate farther. Which is just as well. If a gas (methane, for example) is mixed with air in a room under conditions where a candle flame would be enough to start it oxidizing throughout the room, the result would be a gas explosion that could well destroy the whole building! Or as they say, do not try this at home! --Anonymous, 05:57 UTC, July 11, 2009.

It hasn't been mentioned so far, but methane is completely odourless. You only smell the gas in your house because they add stuff to it for that purpose. Vimescarrot (talk) 09:21, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

ANd interestingly enough, they generally add to it the same sort of compounds that make your farts stink. Which is why people mistakenly believe that farts smell like methane, or visa versa. --Jayron32.talk.say no to drama 13:37, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Gotta say I've never thought a gas leak smelled anything like my own, er, gas leaks. The additive is a mercaptan, iirc. —Tamfang (talk) 17:27, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

It's also worth noting that one of the more important features of a ventilation fan in a bathroom is not removable of odours, but removal of condensation to prevent things like damp and warping of ceilings etc. (I.e. if you have a broken fan it's advisable to get it fixed or make sure you open a window when using the shower/bath). ny156uk (talk) 13:56, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

I'll second Ny156uk's suggestion, but will add that you don't have to light a candle to remove the smell, just strike a match. The smell of that sulfur and phosphorus is so sharp and distinct that it easily covers over any... other smells in there. But get the fan fixed anyway! Matt Deres (talk) 16:21, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Name of this Childish behaviour

A common behaviour I see mainly in children and sometimes in teenagers is characterized by the following: suppose the child is humming annoyingly, or otherwise doing an action that is annoying someone, that someone else, say a teacher, tells the child to stop. Instead of completely stopping the humming, the child hums more softly and quieter so as to assert his defiance of authority and show that "the teacher can't boss him around." What is this behaviour called? Acceptable (talk) 09:30, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Rebelliousness. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 09:32, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Being stubborn. Dismas|^(talk) 09:56, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Passive–aggressive behavior; really the teacher can boss him around (otherwise he'd just ignore the request altogether), but he complies with the request only as little as he thinks he can get away with, and makes a point of showing this. It's not full-on defiance, but it's the minimum possible compliance. 87.115.94.112 (talk) 10:34, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Yes, another phrase that I run across in legal contexts is "mere compliance", where an entity complies with restrictions just far enough to avoid getting explicitly sanctioned for breaking them. ~ mazca ^talk 11:29, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Precisely. This behavior is by no means limited to children. I recall something Bill Veeck said about his fellow MLB club owners, which is also behavior observable in the general adult populace: "As soon as they pass a rule, they start figuring out ways around it." Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 17:08, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Could it be called taunting? The youngster is daring the adult to demand that what is already almost inaudible be stopped completely. There is a form of intellectual behavior here that has to be admired. The child is challenging you to distinguish between your need to have a satisfying environment, free of annoying noises, and your need to assert authority. It is understood by all concerned parties that had the volume of the annoyance been at the secondary (lower) level from the start, there would have been no need for admonitions from the adult. The child is shifting the focus of the disagreement from that of disturbing noises to that of an adult's need to assert authority. It is probably best in this instance not to be outsmarted by the child. It is probably best to smile and say how wonderful the lower volume of humming is. Bus stop (talk) 18:42, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

Handyman's secret weapon

And if that doesn't work, there's always the handyman's secret weapon. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 20:44, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

For a closer-to-home example of this kind of thing among presumed adults, check this out: [16] If only it were so easily handled in real life. (Hence the previous sentence.) Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 22:11, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

It's the pipsqueak version of working to rule. --Sean 15:13, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Couldn't it just be that the child doesn't understand why the adult could possibly find the humming annoying? Just a thought. ~AH1^(TCU) 09:26, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Did Asimov smoke?

I've been reading Isaac Asimov's books for a while and noticed that some (maybe most) of his characters are depicted smoking cigarettes, cigars or pipes. Was the good doctor a smoker himself? 88.242.145.177 (talk) 09:50, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

It appears that he did not smoke. 152.16.59.190 (talk) 10:06, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

I've been flipping through In Joy Still Felt, because I think there's a place in there somewhere where he says something like "I had never smoked and now I finally decided that I would no longer tolerate smoking in my home", but I couldn't find it. Maybe it was the wrong book or I was looking in the wrong part of his life. Anyway, I did find two other mentions that make it clear that he didn't smoke:

• Chapter 33, section 21, at a writers' conference:

John Ciardi held court before and after dinner and we all gathered around him for drinking, smoking, and talking. Since I neither drank nor smoked, I had to make up for it with the third item, and night after night, it became a matter of John and I one-upping each other. It was John who won, and at the very close, too...

• Chapter 39, section 6, at a dinner devoted to environmental causes:

The dinner was excellent, but after it was over, two cigars and three cigarettes were lit in my vicinity and I simply got up and left. I wrote a letter afterward to the man who had invited me and explained that I thought human beings who considered themselves committed to the preservation of the environment should not pollute and, far more important, should not pollute the air of their nonsmoking neighbors with carcinogenic smoke.

--Anonymous, 10:44 UTC, July 11, 2009.

I read that Mr Asimov was cremated. As such, the answers may have to be reconsidered. --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 11:42, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

But in that case, he probably only smoked once. Googlemeister (talk) 16:19, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Silence

How does one practice talking less? sumal (talk) 14:28, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

The same way as one practices anything else, by doing it lots. Try thinking about everything you are about to say before you say it and decide if it is actually worth saying. --Tango (talk) 16:43, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

I'd like to nominate a "World Think Before You Speak Day". Richard Avery (talk) 17:17, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

The trouble with thinking before speaking is that I never get the floor because no one else waits. —Tamfang (talk) 18:27, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

Go to a religious "retreat" where nobody speaks. This will encourage you to also not speak. -- SGBailey (talk) 22:56, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Silence Is Golden. Be silent, or let your words be worth more than gold. 152.16.59.190 (talk) 23:12, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Learn the acronym WAIT (Why Am I Talking?) Cuddlyable3 (talk) 23:29, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Accept who you are and be it. Ivtv (talk) 23:30, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Or, since the reference desk is in a philosophical mood today: "Those who know don't talk. Those who talk don't know." At least according to Laozi. --Saddhiyama (talk) 23:35, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

He said that? QED. SteveBaker (talk) 02:05, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

I am quite sure he was perfectly aware of the inherent contradiction of that. --Saddhiyama (talk) 11:22, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

I dunno - he was a philosopher. If he'd thought about it, it would have been named "Laozi's paradox" by now. SteveBaker (talk) 15:34, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

Socrates 86.140.144.220 (talk) 18:43, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

"'Tis better to be silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt" - wikiquote attributes this to Mark Twain. AndrewWTaylor (talk) 09:19, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

Seems like it might be inspired by a saying that was a paraphrase from Boethius: "si tacuisset, philosophus mansisset." ("If he had kept silent, he would have remained a philosopher.") . --Saddhiyama (talk) 08:37, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

I do believe that this is one of the few questions for which the delicious Ring Lardner line is exactly appropriate: "Shut up," he explained. --jpgordon^{::==( o )} 23:09, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

Nuclear Power mistake

Why in the article about nuclear power Italy is considered a non nuclear state? Italian Parliament has already voted to start again with the nuclear program. The Gouvernment decided to build 8-9 new nuclear centres.4 are EPR. Above all Italy always had in the last years some reactors always on for civil and military researches (Base di S.Piero a Grado -Pisa). —Preceding unsigned comment added by Giosue' Campi (talk • contribs) 16:28, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Having a nuclear program doesn't make you a nuclear state. The term is usually used to refer to nations that have nuclear weapons. As far as I know, Italy doesn't. --Tango (talk) 16:45, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Having nukes on paper-only is the ultimate in, if you'll pardon the ironic metaphor, "vaporware". Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 17:03, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Italy is not trying to make nuclear weapons (they are signatories to the NPT and would suffer harsh penalties if they tried to), on paper or otherwise. --98.217.14.211 (talk) 22:50, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Ha! Signatories to the NPT that develop nukes suffer harsh penalties! Good one! Knee slapper! Tempshill (talk) 15:42, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

Where's the joke? Only one country (North Korea) has ever violated the NPT in this fashion, and has suffered international ostracism and embargos as a result. Such penalties are certainly harsh enough to stop Italy even considering such a move. Algebraist 18:14, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

If this is about electricity generated by nuclear reactors, Italy has no current commercial scale reactors runnnig. The "Nuclear power by country" template shows Italy in the 0 Mw category and the article discussing it is energy in Italy which oddly almost entirely discusses energy that Italy doesn't have. That will need to be expanded. Rmhermen (talk) 21:02, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Italy used to have power reactors, but has not for some time. According to List_of_nuclear_reactors#Italy, they have two TRIGA research reactors, but usually those by themselves don't count for whether your country is really a "nuclear state" or not (they allow for experiments but that is all). --98.217.14.211 (talk) 22:49, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

In the article there is the citation of referendum.With this new law the will of referendum is ended and Italy will have first nuclear reactors for power in 2013.About nuclear weapons Italy has( non officially ) nukes built in France and UK as also former Italian President of Republic Cossiga(He knows Italian Army more than me and you) declared several times.In the arsenal of La Spezia military haorbour Italy owns several Polaris A3 ready to be used (they can be carried also by ships).Check also other sources in Wikipedia.Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Giosue' Campi (talk • contribs) 07:39, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

Fine, but not nuclear weapons. That's what you need to be a "nuclear state". Not that I'm suggesting it's something to aspire to :-)

We'll try to stay/serene and calm/when Alabama/gets the bomb -- Tom Lehrer

--Trovatore (talk) 08:45, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

Whoops, I guess I hadn't read beyond the first sentence. Really?? There are live nuclear weapons with Silvio's finger on the trigger?? If true, that's huge. --Trovatore (talk) 08:48, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

I don't think they're Italian. I'm guessing it's a NATO weapons sharing thing. - Jarry1250 ^{[ humourous – discuss ]} 09:34, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

I didn't know that in this place there were a lot of people that knew Italy much better than the former Homeland Minister, Prime Minister and also President of the Republic F.COSSIGA.It's very fine and interesting.The Polaris A3 in La Spezia aren't Nato shared.La Spezia is an italian Navy harbour.The problem is that all the people in the Italian Navy and in the Italian Air Force know it.My father was rocket operator in the Italian Air Force. Anyway the article about Nuclear power is old because the referendum about nuclear power is ended for Italy since the Parliament voted the new law.Giosue' Campi (talk) 21:59, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

Well, if it's true about the weapons, then in my (admittedly limited) understanding they are in violation of their obligations as non-nuclear signatories to the NPT. Therefore they presumably need to keep it quiet, and there aren't likely to be any reliable sources that assert this. --Trovatore (talk) 22:21, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

There's a simple way to answer this. Does Italy, right now, today, have the capability of blowing up someone or something with a nuclear bomb? If the answer is "No", then they are not a nuclear power. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 22:17, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

That's what you think in in your head but reality is different.I'm italian and i defy you in who knows better Italy,italian power and Italian Army.You can see also the Italian destroyer Garibaldi launching a Polaris 50 years ago in a photo.The Italian Navy was the first Navy testing Polaris on the sea on ships.Italy today has developed also a launcher derived from Scout rocket able to be used for small-medium satellites and also like Icbm. The article on nuclear power is old because the new law of the Parliament cancelled referendum. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Giosue' Campi (talk • contribs) 22:25, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

If Italy had carried out nuclear tests, the world would know about it, whether they are Italian or not. --Tango (talk) 02:46, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Italy has nuclear weapons and similar.Check photos of italian destroyers launching Polaris A3.Italy developed (then stopped it) also another rocket (Alpha)MRMB.Today Italy has also a launcher very good to be used as Icbm.Italy has also a space base in front of Kenya (here launched in 50's Scouts)and onother one in Sardinia where testing big rockets.There are military secrets that a normal person on the common websites or books can't know.Secrets aren't only in Usa but also in Italy and in the whole EU. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Giosue' Campi (talk • contribs) 12:15, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Tango is right. It's pretty hard to not notice a nuclear explosion. Thanks, gENIUS101 13:26, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

To answer your original question: Italy is considered a non-nuclear state because it ratified the NNPT as a *non-nuclear state* in 1975. It's true that with NATO nuclear sharing they may sometimes put their hands on other people's weapons, but that is skirting the NNPT in such a way as to let them keep their non-nuclear state status. --Sean 15:47, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Anyway Italy has Polaris A3 in the Navy and also other kinds of rockets useful to launch nukes.In the world don't exist only Usa nukes or Nato shared.Come to La Spezia or in other italian military centres (may be centers for you)and i'll see you with the mouth open.It's hard thinking that also Italy can erase Usa or Russia.Have you checked the photos of the italian destroyer launching Polaris in 50's?Have you seen the new italian rocket derived from Scout? Anyway have you checked that italian law is changed and the citation of referendum in "nuclear power" article is old?By the answers i understood that you don't like too much Italy or EU and that you didn't check the new italian law.The article will rest very old. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Giosue' Campi (talk • contribs) 19:22, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Italy has Polaris missiles capable of carrying nuclear warheads, but I'm pretty certain (as is the rest of the world) it doesn't have any nuclear warheads to put in them. UGM-27 Polaris indicates that Polaris, in itself, is not nuclear. I can't comment on the power situation. - Jarry1250 ^{[ humourous – discuss ]} 20:01, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Do you have a source for the assertion that they still have those missiles? The article doesn't, and my understanding was that they outfitted a single ship (the Giuseppe Garibaldi (not the aircraft carrier of the same name)) with their launchers; that boat was scrapped in 1971. It's hard to believe that Italy is steadfastly keeping 48 year old missiles with no launch platform and no warheads at the ready. --Sean 20:30, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

The article says "The Italian Navy still holds a number of Polaris missiles in operational conditions, ready to use if necessary, stored in an airtight facility in the La Spezia Arsenal." which is the place mentioned below (no reliabkle source, but I'm no expert anyway). It is possible, whereas the shear amount of money to upkeep a nuclear arsenal, not to mention keeping it secret, is astronomical given the state of Italy's finances. - Jarry1250 ^{[ humourous – discuss ]} 10:03, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Keeping Polaris A3 rockets isn't a problem for italy.Today is much more a problem for Usa with the biggest world debt and a very critic financial situation mantaining nukes that are unuseful.Only EU states (no shared nukes of Nato) are able to destroy Earth by their nukes more than once.The Polaris A3 are in a secret deposit ready to be used in the Arsenal of La Spezia.This military port is allowed only to the Italian Army.You can ask more to Italian Navy or to some people that worked there.In La Spezia there are a lot of military secrets.Anyway i've seen that in Wikipedia in Italian and in English the article is right about Polaris A3.In La Spezia there are no Nato shared weapons or Us weapons. Also in Sardinia where are tested launcher for satellites only italian or EU soldiers can enter.The Vega launcher that derives from Scout (it's better than Scout)will be used to send in the space small-medium satellites from Kouru.The big ones satellites will be sent by Ariane V or Soyuz from Kouru.The Vega is useful also like Icbm.It can be launched also from sardinia and from San Marco basis in front of Kenya (Malindi).The former Italian President declared that Italy has nukes and he knows (like also high levels italian soldiers)better than everibody in the world the number and the kind.He said that Italy has nukes built in France and may be also in UK. In Italy the referendum that in 1986 stopped nuclear centrals is ended for ever with the new law voted by the Parliament.The first nuclear central will start in 2013 (EPR).I answer you Sean because you're the only one that is serious ,a lot of the other ones are a joke.I'm certain 110% that Italy has its own nukes and i think (i'm not sure ) that also other EU countries have nuclear weapons (excluded France and UK that officially have them).NNPT is only a piece of paper to make happy the pacifists and the people that think that only their nation has nukes.UN or Nato can do nothing. Israel has rockets able to hit Usa and also France,UK and Italy have. In Italy there's Vatican (Pope is the most powerful man in the world).Italy is able in this way (and also EU with France and UK)to hit all the world.Till 6 years ago Vatican didn't recognize Israel .Do you think that Italian state hadn't weapons to hit it or Usa were there were jeweish financial investments?It's a reality bigger than NNPT.Giosue' Campi (talk) 08:55, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

. Tempshill (talk) 06:31, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

Please be serious or i haven't anymore time to lose in Wikipedia.Your comment some days ago was a joke and now you ask me citations.Military secrets aren't only in Usa but also In EU states or Russia.Do you explain me how is it possible to set a citation about the new italian law for the article "Nuclear power"?Yesterday evening ALL italian television presented the Minister for Production Claudio Scajola at the start of the new nuclear central that ENEL (italian company power that owns Slovakian power society and spanish Endesa with nuclear centrals) owns in Slowakia.It was built all by italian factories(the main are Ansaldo Energia and Finmeccanica).He said that the new law has already fixed the places in Italy to build 4 new centrals (EPR)within 2013.Ather 4 will be built within 2018 and they'll be built on japanese design.Another one will be built always as EPR.About italian rockets you can check a lot of websites (the most in italian but there someones also in english).You can check also an old italian cruiser Garibaldi firing Polaris A3. About Italian President declaretions you can have a source in RAINEWS24 ,the italian public television.Giosue' Campi (talk) 08:44, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

I saw the article "Nuclear power" has been changed in the right way.Giosue' Campi (talk) 10:30, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

green architecture

can anyone tell me which country has the greatest number of "green" buildings? a country (it may also be a city, it doesn't matter) which is the most conscious about green architecture and sustainable building? i googled about it, but i got rankings of only US cities. so, it's limited to only the US. i want a worldiwde survey. please help me. thanx. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.50.129.165 (talk) 17:06, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

You could start with our article on Sustainable architecture which has a number of links in the references and external links section. If you follow these, you may find what you are looking for. --Jayron32.talk.say no to drama 19:30, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Well, for small communities (both in the U.S.) look at Greensburg, Kansas and Greater World Community. Rmhermen (talk) 20:22, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Traffic Lights

New traffic lights are made of dozens of LEDs arranged in a circular pattern, as opposed to old ones which were incandescent in nature. How many watts do each type consume? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.60.29.128 (talk) 19:56, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

According to this, the new ones consume 10–22 watts, while the old ones consume 135 watts. Theleftorium 20:09, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

They also have the advantage that a single LED failure will not render the light confusing/inoperable, unlike a bulb failure. Exxolon (talk) 20:27, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

And LED's have a much longer life than an incandescent - so they don't need to be replaced anything like as often. SteveBaker (talk) 02:03, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

Of course, (Original anecdotal evidence here) many of the LED traffic lights around these parts have many segments non-functional. Sometimes as many as 50%! There seems to be two kinds of failures, the kind that only knocks out discrete LEDs, and the kind that takes out a whole contiguous segment of them.APL (talk) 03:32, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

I consider it a "graceful failure" if a component fails (one LED) and the device still performs its function, though in a degraded (less bright) manner. It could in principle use multiple incandescent lights to provide a bit of redundancy, but I expect that, for economy, they use only one incandescent bulb per compartment. If a 130 volt rated bulb is operated at 120 volts, the lifetime will be greatly increased at a sacrifice of efficacy. Momentary high voltage or lightning surge would be more likely to destroy any number of LEDs than one incandescent filament. Edison (talk) 04:00, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

You would know, right, Edison? ;-) Sorry, I couldn't help myself. How difficult is it to replace a traffic light bulb? It seems like it would be awfully difficult to find the right time of day/night to do so.--WaltCip (talk) 15:58, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

Well, it's gotta be done sooner rather than later since you don't want to have a rush hour happen with a bum light. I've seen them replaced. They just get a guy out there in a reflective vest to direct traffic, put the truck in the intersection or wherever and raise another guy in a boom up to the light. A few minutes later it's changed and they're gone. Dismas|^(talk) 11:45, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

July 12

MUSLIM RELIGION & SWINE FLU

I appreciate this may be a sensitive topic however i would like to ask a question with regard to Swine Flu and the Muslim Religion. What is the position/would be the postion of a Muslim contracting Swine Flu? this perticular type of Swine flu came from Pigs which are classed a certain way in the Muslim Religion - What are the implications of this? Are the people that become infected by the Swine flu virus classed as any diffrent due to the fact this being a Pig Virus? again my appologies for using a sensative topic but it is an interesting oneChromagnum (talk) 09:02, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

It is the pig that is unclean, and it should not be eaten by Muslims, the virus is just a disease that has "swine" in the name, but is a predominately human disease. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 09:13, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

I belive that is incorrect...The virus has mutated from pigs to infect Humans your idea that it has ""swine""in the title is the only link with a pig is wrong.Chromagnum (talk) 09:18, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

It now just a name. The virus may have come from pigs, but it's got nothing to do with them. Just like Spanish Flu had nothing to do with Spain (or France or any other name for the virus). The virus is independent of the host. - Jarry1250 ^{[ humourous – discuss ]} 09:27, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

So no, I don't think it has any religious implications for Muslims. - Jarry1250 ^{[ humourous – discuss ]} 09:31, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

Yes, I think Jarry1250's right. The whole reason the family of influenza viruses is so widespread and successful is that it readily mutates, and various forms of it readily jump between species - there's swine flu, seal flu, avian flu, human flu, etc. At some point in its past, most any influenza virus you encounter may well have had an ancestor that infected pigs - it just so happens that the currently-noted one was more recently doing that. It's a virus that happens to have infected pigs and also infects humans, and that doesn't make it in any way analogous to the Muslim consuming an unclean animal. It's rather more analogous to breathing in some air that at some point was exhaled by a pig! ~ mazca ^talk 10:04, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

It is worth noting that there is of course a difference between how a Muslim with swine flu should be treated, and how they might be treated. In poorly educated countries, I wouldn't be surprised to see people react in a prejudiced way to a person that contracted swine flu. Similarly, Egypt has used the swine flu as an excuse to mass slaughter pigs (none of which were known to have the disease and are unlikely to be vector of transmission anyway), and the Afghan zoo apparently placed their one pig in solitary confinement for its own protection when news of the flu broke out. Dragons flight (talk) 10:21, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

Actually - I heard on the radio yesterday that following international outrage (yes, PETA got involved), the sole Afghan pig is now back in his usual enclosure. SteveBaker (talk) 15:32, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

It is worth remembering that it was the cursed news media, who have little regard for the truth or accuracy, who coined the name 'swine flu'. (I read somewhere that none of the pigs in the US owned pig farm near where the original outbreak started suffered from this illness) any reasonably educated person with a sense of decency should promulgate the correct H1N1 designation. not so snappy but 100% more accurate. 86.4.186.150 (talk) 21:52, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

If it originated in swine, which I believe it did, then I see no problem with calling it swine flu, much the same as bird flu. If it discourages pork consumption, even for spurious reasons, that's all to the good. I do feel bad for the pigs in Egypt, but they didn't have much of a life ahead of them anyway. --Trovatore (talk) 22:28, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

I think that had more to do with the pigs being raised by poor Christians who fed them in trash dumps, and it was a convenient excuse to finally get rid of them. Adam Bishop (talk) 23:52, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

I don't think it is as simple as it originating in pigs. As I understand it, it's a human virus, which has come into contact with a swine virus (which would not, itself, be able to be transmitted from human to human) and received a few genes from it. --Tango (talk) 02:41, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

The problem with the 'correct' H1N1 designation is that it isn't specific enough. 'Swine flu' isn't really specific enough either, except that if you say 'swine flu' in most current contexts, people will know what you mean. If you say 'H1N1', there are many contexts when you then have to explain which H1N1 you mean. Is it the version from 1918, is it the current one that is commonly known as 'Swine flu', is it another strain of H1N1 that is also circulating at the moment, etc. It's all very well trying to avoid people associating the flu with pigs in an unrealistic manner, but a vague name that is vague in likely current conversations isn't that useful. 86.140.144.220 (talk) 01:05, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Well, if H1N1 can be the 1918 one, then swine flu can just as easily be the 1976 one. --Trovatore (talk) 02:17, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Indeed. "The 2009 variety of H1N1" would seem the best name to me. Not very catchy in newspaper headlines, unfortunately. --Tango (talk) 02:41, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

True dat, hence "'Swine flu' isn't really specific enough either, except that..." It would be better if we had some completely unambiguous name that was shorter than "The 2009 variety of H1N1", but until then I find 'Swine flu' fits most of my needs better most of the time. I don't feel replacing it with 'H1N1' in all places is an improvement. 86.140.144.220 (talk) 04:02, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Perhaps the WHO should consider naming them a la hurricanes. --Sean 20:36, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Ok a poorly worded question i admit; Dragons flight had the right idea with regard to the question; i wanted to ask if there was a stigma attached to catching it; but i have the answer i needed much obliged; just for info wanted some opions as i am writing a paper for work on the subject214.13.64.7 (talk) 04:04, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

As a cabby i have seen the Afghan pig with my own eyes and it is safe and well hooray214.13.64.7 (talk) 04:05, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

A cabbie in Afghanistan, posting from an Arizona IP address! There's a story here. Not strictly in accordance with refdesk practices, but please share. --Trovatore (talk) 20:44, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Ok a cabby as in an addition to what was previously said and the server is in US doesnt mean i am there go figureChromagnum (talk) 05:41, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

doctor

whats the thig called what doctors sometimes have on their haeads, as seen is this cartoon [17] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.43.91.128 (talk) 11:03, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

Head mirror. Deor (talk) 11:16, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

thanks! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.43.91.128 (talk) 11:22, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

I live in the UK. I've never seen one of these, except in kids' play sets and in TV/film productions. Are they still in use anywhere in the developed world? Our article doesn't say. --Dweller (talk) 13:45, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

From the article: "They are currently in less use than before, as they have been largely replaced by pen lights among general practitioners, and by fibreoptic headlamps among otolaryngologists." —Akrabbim^talk 19:42, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Becoming a salesperson

Is it possible to learn to be a salesman or woman, either in a shop, over the phone or in some other way, or is sales really a dark art that you're either born with or without? Other than wasting my own and employers' time by trying to pick it up on the job (and quickly getting fired) does anyone know how I could start? 86.142.67.44 (talk) 14:36, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

I'm sure there are plenty of training courses for that - although I think it depends on precisely how (and what!) you are selling. Selling houses, used cars and dubious herbal v**gr* are very different from selling newspapers on a street corner or AT&T telephone agreements. Perhaps you could be a little more specific? SteveBaker (talk) 15:25, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

86 doesn't seem to want to fail and get fired and try again, but that's the way to become a good sales person. I wouldn't worry much about going through 6 jobs before you feel like you're "on your feet" in the profession — if the employers are essentially willing to train you, why not? It's no dark art. If you already consider yourself "good with people" then that helps a lot. If you're interested in finding out more without actually doing it, google "salesman biography -death" to look for memoirs of some great sales people. ("-death" is in there to prevent half the Google results to come back with Death of a Salesman.) Tempshill (talk) 15:40, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

Learning to be a salesman may be possible over the phone, but learning to be a women may not be. As you speculate glumly, the latter is a dark art you are either born with or without (of course, such OR should be frowned upon in these hallowed pages of wisdooom. --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 17:26, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

LOL :)) What I meant was a sales job, either in a shop (cars, mobile phones, computers etc) or telesales from a call centre (insurance etc). I think I'm good with people generally (I'm friendly and have been accused of being funny... ;), but I don't have any idea about the psychology of selling things, and I fear employers won't have much tolerance of beginners at the moment. If I can learn something about it beforehand though, I think I'd be fine. 86.142.67.44 (talk) 17:51, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

Cockatoo beat me to the punch-line on that one. :) I recommend reading How to Win Friends and Influence People, which is ostensibly about how to get along but is also about how to be a salesman. It's a good starting point. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 17:54, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

It will most likely depend (initialy) on whether or not you believe in what you are selling. This will help a great deal. I used to sell products that I didn't care about and I hated having to try and convince people that they were worthy, valid items. It went against so many core feelings. Yet in another job, I sold something that I genuinely thought was a decent product and it felt right to try and convince people to part with their money. This obviously helped a great deal with my success rate.Popcorn II (talk) 18:55, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

[Some of the following has been rendered moot by intervening edits and edit conflicts, but I won't go to the additional extra trouble of rewriting it, only to risk another edit conflict. Life's too short. —— Shakescene (talk) 18:57, 12 July 2009 (UTC)]

Traditionally in the United States, beginning sales jobs that don't involve standing behind a counter or inside a shop were often paid on a straight-commission basis, meaning that the sales(wo)man got little or no compensation other than a set commission per sale. For income tax purposes, they were treated as self-employed independent contractors. (Being paid, after some time on the job, a salary or a salary plus commission was a sign of seniority and the employer's confidence in your competence and reliability.) So, under straight commission, the employer wouldn't lose very much (and might even gain a few extra sales) as untrained sales(wo)men either improved their skills or learned that they were unsuited to that particular line of sales, or to the profession as a whole.† And it's not unusual for salespeople to move around between different bosses and different lines of sales until they find the one which most suits their personality, preferences and skills. Even seasoned veteran sales(wo)men sometimes like to change jobs every few years to learn new things and to avoid going stale; a few rather cold-hearted employers prefer hiring energetic new blood to keeping their old staff.

† (There's always the incremental opportunity cost of uncompleted sales that might have been won by a better salesperson, but that assumes the purely-hypothetical availability of one more such salesperson than was in fact hired.)

I'm in the UK, and there's a minimum wage over here (at least for shop-based or call centre work) so commission-only might not be an option. Will look out for it though, cause I can see at a glance that most waged jobs call for experience. 86.142.67.44 (talk) 00:38, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

If you're financially and psychologically ready to take the risk of seeing your monthly pay depend totally upon the combination of skill, preparation and pure luck that sales involve, then an employer might be willing, even during a recession, to invest in your initial set-up and training. But you should avoid getting sucked into those Multi-level marketing businesses (not all of them) whose main revenue comes not from selling a product or service to consumers but from recruiting ever more sales staff.

By the way, Death of a Salesman by Arthur Miller is a play worth seeing or reading, partly for its insights into a salesman's psychology. Another great 20th-century play, The Iceman Cometh, by Eugene O'Neill, revolves around a salesman. The "darker" side of sales is reflected in Glengarry Glen Ross by David Mamet and (more light-heartedly) in the musical comedy The Music Man, by Meredith Willson. I know there are films and videos of The Iceman Cometh (with Lee Marvin) and Glengarry Glen Ross (with Jack Lemmon); I don't know about the other two works.

If you're interested in reading about sales from non-literary sources, Dale Carnegie's much-mocked How to Win Friends and Influence People, while not directly about sales, carries a lot of extremely sound practical advice. There are also a number of books, for whose value I cannot vouch (never having been any good at sales myself), by Zig Ziglar. —— Shakescene (talk) 18:57, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

I do not think reading the literary stuff is going to help. I used to be a salesman. You need textbooks about sales techniques. I highly recommend Selling To Win by Richard Denny. Tells you the know-how and how-to of sales. Written in the Uk but relevant in all countries. Most sales jobs are badly paid. Well-paid sales jobs are rare. Being employed by a big manufacturing company selling their expensive things to industry is better paid, the more expensive the product the better. 89.241.44.245 (talk) 19:11, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

Thanks, and I know the basic wage would be low. If I actually do this (after some reading) it will be cause I believe I can earn a bonus! :) 86.142.67.44 (talk) 00:38, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

(Those literary references were more in the way of an aside than direct practical advice, but my post had too many indentations as it was). —— Shakescene (talk) 19:20, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

For a cheap introduction to sales try "The One Minute Sales Person". It doesn't contain any "magic secrets", but some general tips on getting sales. Take a look here [18] If you like the style you can pick up a used copy for about $4-5. If you don't want to try out your new-found skills on the job, try doing a yard-sale, church bazar, fleamarket or the like. Another way is to just go shopping and see what salespeople do and who succeeded how to make you buy something. For products you consider to be crappy think of some feature that you could honestly offer. (e.g. your customers couldn't afford the better quality ones, it's fashionable, they could waste their money on something worse.) If all else fails, what worked for me sometimes was "It's good for the economy." :-) from that angle build arguments why your customers would want to buy the stuff. If you find it difficult to do that on the spot, go watch TV and think how you would sell your product(s) to one of the characters in a supporting role. (You are less likely to meet someone like the main character, but supporting roles are usually cast like "ordinary people" so they're a good model for you.) 71.236.26.74 (talk) 21:29, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

Yes, I think I'd really have trouble selling something I didn't believe in. I can think myself into others' shoes, but I just wouldn't be convincing if my entire pitch was lies. I'm too naive for this ;) 86.142.67.44 (talk) 00:38, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

What did I drink

When I was younger, my friend and I had heard that drinking a bottle of some Chinese elixer called Sa-wu-che would get you crazy stoned. As I recall the bottle said in crude English that a tablespoon a day would keep you healthy. It came in a glass bottle, cost five dollars and was a greenish-black color. The taste was awful. And as I best can recall it was called or pronounced 'Sah-wu-che'. And it did in fact get us crazy stoned. --67.85.117.190 (talk) 17:35, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

If you're asking where to get more, we're going to need to know where in the world you saw this. You mentioned dollars, so did you mean American dollars, Canadian dollars, or one of the several other nations that use dollars? Dismas|^(talk) 20:07, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

And is that the Chinese pronunciation or an Anglicised pronunciation from the romanised name? --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 23:58, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

OK i know Ginsing can get you stoned if you drink lots of it [www.angelfire.com/id/croon/japan/china/ginseng.html]Maybe it was just coloured and sold as a exlixer 214.13.64.7 (talk) 04:12, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

If it weren't for the chinese name I would have guessed cough medicine with Codeine. -- 71.236.26.74 (talk) 21:48, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Importing Vanilla Coke

Does anyone know of a semi-reputable site that would let me import Diet Vanilla Coke (apparently now called Coca-Cola Vanilla) to the UK? I know there are companies that do this for less widely available drinks (like Irn-Bru). 94.168.184.16 (talk) 18:02, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

This site seems to usually carry it, but they're out at present. [19] The closest I could find otherwise was this German site [20] Importing the already imported beverage from there would make it prohibitively expensive. But here's an idea: just find a bottle of vanilla extract in the bakery isle at your grocery store and add a drop to plain diet coke. 71.236.26.74 (talk) 22:14, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

Warning: Vanilla Coke tastes awful (YMMV). Back years ago, you could get a vanilla coke at a drugstore food counter, and as far as I know, it was put together there. They just used regular coke and a vanilla extract. It tasted good. What Coke puts into their Vanilla Coke doesn't even taste remotely like vanilla. And don't get me started on Lime Coke ... Who then was a gentleman? (talk) 18:36, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Majors: International Studies vs. Political Science & Near Eastern Studies

Hello! What is more marketable?: B.A. International Studies or B.A. Political Science & B.A. Near Eastern Studies? Thank You - Vikramkr (talk) 23:37, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

Neither is much more marketable. Any relevent bachelor's degree will get you an interview with a prospective employer; and all that really matters is the interview. In this case, the two degrees are so closely related that there is not likely to be much of a difference in terms of resume weight. Pick the one whose course offerings will better prepare you for your future career, and don't worry so much about the name of the degree. --Jayron32.talk.say no to drama 00:51, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

I appreciate your feedback, but based on your wording, I'm not sure if you were aware that I was talking about the second option being a double major (i.e. two degrees: one in POL and one in NES). Does this change the reality you described? Additionally, I left out that I will be minoring in Portuguese, regardless of which academic program I pursue. - Vikramkr (talk) 01:13, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Again, I'm not sure the double major makes a HUGE difference on paper. Your schooling is primarily about getting the education you need to perform your job well once you get it; your coursework (that is, the specific classes you take) will be the bigger factor in impressing prospective employers than the names or types of degrees you receive. They will look closer at your transcript than your degree. Furthermore, the name of your degree is basically a resume bullet point; and a resume serves ONLY one purpose, and that is to get you an interview. There is nothing else that such information can do to get you or lose you a job. Your coursework and grades will speak for themselves and that coupled with your performance in your interview will determine whether or not you land a desired job. Everything else is window dressing. So choose which major you want based on whether or not that major provides the needed coursework, not on whether the name of the major (or whether it is a double major or not) sounds better on paper. --Jayron32.talk.say no to drama 04:15, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Great, thanks so much for the advice! I really appreciate it. - Vikramkr (talk) 05:06, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Madoff had a degree in political science, but do you know anyone with a degree in international studies who has achieved anything? Do you? Quest09 (talk) 10:35, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Jody Williams, though "international relations" not "international studies". - BanyanTree 13:01, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

My strong advice is to do a degree in the subject that interests you the most. This will make your years in college much more bearable - it'll help you to ease into the habit of study - and it'll get you a better grade of degree at the end of the day. What a degree represents to an employer is a demonstration of your ability to learn - your ability to communicate what you've learned - and your ability to stick at a long term problem for years at a time. What precisely that degree is about matters a LOT less. Also, your degree is what gets you your FIRST job. What gets you your second job is mostly how well you did at your first one - and to a lesser extent, what your degree was like. What gets you your third job has nothing whatever to do with your degree - most HR people won't even read that far down the resume before deciding whether to interview you or not! Once you are at the face-to-face interview, your performance at the interview becomes the only thing that matters...and if you can talk with genuine enthusiasm for your chosen profession - that's worth a HUGE amount...hence the suggestion to do what interests you the most. SteveBaker (talk) 13:02, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

The only difference you might achieve with one or the other is to get a hit in an HR keyword search program used to screen applicant's resumes. They don't know/care where that word is, though. So if you apply for a job you can just throw in a phrase with "Near Eastern Studies" or "Political Science" somewhere like in "further interests" or "additional subjects" and bingo, the program is happy and your resume lands in the "look at" pile. From then on it will have to survive on merits. What is marketable today is also unlikely to still be marketable by the time you've gained your degree. As far as role models go IMHO someone like Madeleine Albright and even Condoleezza Rice might be better examples to follow than Madoff. In the end though, study something you enjoy and can envision spending the rest of your life doing. OR you're likely to spend a lot more time at earning money than on spending it. Very few jobs that you hate can pay enough to offset that. 71.236.26.74 (talk) 18:46, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

The two programs sound like very different things. If you are going to work in or with the Near East, then the second, on paper, sounds more appropriate. If you will be working generally with international affairs, but not specifically on the Near East, then the first seems more marketable. Again, on paper. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 23:07, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Yes, this is perhaps a true difference. With an international studies degree you can work, say, in Latin American, Near East or African. Near East is more restricting.--Quest09 (talk) 11:18, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

July 13

The difficult one...

I was just reading the difficult one question above, and a thought struck me, and I want to know if it's right. First let us assume that there exists a most difficult question. Let us call it X. Now, this by definition would be the hardest to answer. But consider the question X U Y where Y is any other question, say what is 1 + 1 ?. Now, this question is even harder to answer than X, because it requires that we must know the answer to X and something else, in this case, 1 + 1. But X is the hardest question to answer. Which means we have arrived at a contradiction, proving our assumption to be false. There cannot exist a question which can be called the most toughest question. Or, the sequence of tough questions diverges without a limit. Which means that the answer to OP's question is : There is no answer. It is like asking "what is the biggest number ?". Am I making sense ? Rkr1991 (talk) 04:16, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

I'm not sure about how you are constructing that union. Let's say question A is "solve 1+1" and question B is "solve 2+3" What is A U B? If A U B is simply "1+1 = ? 2+3 = ?" Suppose A and B are independent; is your argument that P (A U B) = P(A) + P(B), which, assuming A is non-trivial, is >= P(B)? --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 04:34, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

The question X U Y might not be any more difficult to answer correctly than just the question X, if answering X already involves answering Y. For example, X could be the question “What are all the questions which have a correct answer, and what is the correct answer for each of those questions?” That question is unacceptably sloppy, in that it’s left undefined as to what it means to answer a question correctly. But for any definition of answering a question correctly, under pretty much any reasonable definition of how “difficult” it is to answer a question, there wouldn’t be any question more difficult to answer correctly than X. I think that X might be a correct answer to the original question of what the most difficult question to answer is. Red Act (talk) 04:50, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

OK forget about the union bit, just consider the new question as two questions asked as one question. The second question can be anything at all in the universe. So even if I find one question that is not included in X itself, then I can prove that X cannot exist. So from what Red Act says, we have indeed found X. X should be such that it incorporates all the questions that can be asked, otherwise X does not exist. So X is "Answer all the questions that can be asked." This has to be the most difficult question. Now are we home ? Rkr1991 (talk) 07:24, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Maybe it's a paradox. Logically, P(A U B) = P(A) + P(B) - P(A ∩ B).But, even though it's possible to frame a question that will correspond to A U B, how is it possible to frame one corresponding to A ∩ B?? Supposing A is question that goes like: "What is the most difficult question to answer" while B is a question that goes like: "What is 1+1?" so logically, A U B will be a question like:"What is the most difficult question and what is 1+1?" But is it in any way possible to frame A ∩ B here? Any ideas? Anyone? 117.194.229.163 (talk) 08:34, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

It does seem like it would be possible to define the problem of “the most difficult question” in a way that it actually does have a provable answer. A first stab at such a framework might be something along the lines of:

Axiom 1: There exists a set of “answerable questions” such that each element of the set can be represented by a countable string of Unicode characters.

Axiom 2: For every answerable question, there exists a set of “correct answers” to the answerable question, such that each correct answer can be represented by a countable string of Unicode characters.

Definition: For each answerable question, the “difficulty” of answering the question is the sum of Unicode characters in the smallest string that represents the question, plus the sum of Unicode characters in the smallest string that represents a correct answer to the question.

Axiom 3: The “difficulty” of answering a question that asks for the answers to multiple subquestions is greater than the sum of the difficulty of answering each of the subquestions.

Theorem: Let X be the question which has all answerable questions as subquestions. Let Y be any other answerable question. Then the difficulty of X is greater than the difficulty of Y.

The difficulty of X is basically $\aleph _{0}$. Red Act (talk) 09:52, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Oh jeez - please - that's pseudo-mathematical bullshit. You're trying to formalize something that's not defined rigorously enough to be formalizable.

• You say: "the “difficulty” of answering the question is the sum of Unicode characters in the smallest string that represents the question, plus the sum of Unicode characters in the smallest string that represents a correct answer to the question" -- So something like "Are there three positive integers a, b, and c can satisfy the equation aⁿ + bⁿ = cⁿ for any integer value of n greater than two." (Fermat's last theorem)...to which the answer turns out to be "No" - is somehow an easier question than "What is the square root of 12341203948712039487123098273502394875203497582304958723045987230458723045987234058723450198723412341230941827340193874 to an precision of 0.00000000000000000001 ?" (for which the answer is "111090971499541939540617341950772052720229439882381084301517.26741388709120337521")? The former question occupied the best minds in mathematics for 350 years - where the latter was answered by me alone in about 20 seconds. There is clearly ZERO correlation between the size of the questions and/or answers and the "difficulty" of arriving at the answer.
• Axiom 3 is also bogus. Very often the stepwise approach of asking several sub-questions makes answering the final part easier - not harder.

Which makes your conclusion as bullshittish as it sounds. The concept of 'difficulty' is in the eye of the beholder. My question about the square root of 12341203948712039487123098273502394875203497582304958723045987230458723045987234058723450198723412341230941827340193874 is difficult for you - because you have only calculators of limited precision. I have the Linux 'bc' arbitary precision math package - and for me it's as easy as 2+2. Furthermore - I find computer programming questions easy - because I'm a computer programmer. Questions about the biochemistry of lipids are quite beyond my ability. Difficulty is also a function of the way you think...if I ask you to tell me the sum of the numbers 1 through 100 and you don't know the trick - it'll take you quite a while to add up all of those numbers. If you happen to "spot" the trick of adding the biggest number to the smallest and the next biggest to the next smallest - you get the answer in about 10 seconds. Sometimes it's just random whether a question is difficult or easy. Some questions (like "Is Fermat's last theorem true?") used to be insanely difficult...but now that the proof has been found, it's easy! Even my square root question was pretty tough - right up to the point when someone wrote an arbitary precision math package for the PDP-11 back in the 1970's. The difficulty of questions changes over time and with available knowledge and technology.

So please - don't pretend you can find the answer to a silly question like this with this kind of approach. The answer was given more than adequately to the original questioner last week. We can easily come up with infinitely difficult questions - so the answer to "what is the most difficult question" is clearly any one that has infinite difficulty. And that's all we can say on the matter.

SteveBaker (talk) 12:49, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Actually, come to think of it, the theorem could be made more general by replacing the definition of the “difficulty” of a question so that it is merely assumed as an axiom that there exists a function called the “difficulty” of a question, whose domain is the set of answerable questions, and whose range is the set of integers (or maybe reals?). Red Act (talk) 10:18, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Great - but now you've presumed the existance of a function that answers the OP's question...that doesn't get you any closer to understanding how that function works - so this is just so much irrelevent hand-waving. SteveBaker (talk) 13:16, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Let's break this new question down a little:

• First let us assume that there exists a most difficult question. Let us call it X. - Fine - but recognise that since there are questions that are either (a) impossible to answer or (b) would take infinite time to answer - we must say that X is infinitely difficult to answer.
• But consider the question X U Y where Y is any other question, say what is 1 + 1 ?. Now, this question is even harder to answer than X, - No, it's not because infinity+1 equals infinity. Both questions are infinitely hard.
• Which means we have arrived at a contradiction, - not at all.
• There cannot exist a question which can be called the most toughest question. - Yes, there can - providing that it's infinitely tough. We already came up with infinitely difficult questions in answer to the previous OP...so this is solved.
• Which means that the answer to OP's question is : There is no answer. It is like asking "what is the biggest number ?" - yes, it is indeed exactly like asking that - and the answer in both cases revolves around the concept of "infinity"...and for exactly the same reason. The argument that there can be no biggest number because whatever you pick as the biggest can always have one added to it to make it bigger also neglects the fact that infinity+1=infinity.

Infinite answers are not always comfortable ones - but they are very often the truth. There exist some number of infinitely difficult questions - those are the most difficult...and that's all you need to know.

The only tricky part of this is defining "difficulty" - but it seems clear that either a question that cannot possibly be answered (eg "is this theorem true or it false?" for some theorem caught in the Godel Theorem trap - which is fundamentally unanswerable) - or one that takes an infinite amount of time (eg "what is the sum of all of the decimal digits of pi") ought to count as "infinitely difficult".

SteveBaker (talk) 13:28, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Questions of the form "is this unprovable irrefutable sentence true or false?" are not inherently unanswerable, as I pointed out above (well, not for all philosophies of mathematics, anyway). Algebraist 13:37, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Habits

Why are good habits difficult to adopt as compared to bad ones? sumal (talk) 08:37, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Bad ones are generally easier to do and more fun. PhGustaf (talk) 08:45, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

It's a simple case of Observer bias: Because all of the good habits that are easy to adopt have almost certainly already been adopted. The remaining good habits that you have not yet adopted - but feel that you should - are therefore the hard ones that remain at the end. On the other hand, bad habits that are hard to adopt simply don't come into your sphere of consideration (why would you even consider starting a bad habit if it was difficult to start?!?) - while bad habits that are easy to adopt are the ones you tend to pick up. Hence you only notice the difficult good habits and the easy bad ones. SteveBaker (talk) 12:22, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Also see Deferred gratification.71.236.26.74 (talk) 18:04, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

"When faced with two evils, I take the one I haven't tried yet." -- Mae West

Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 03:06, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

What is the difference between USC(United States Code) and CFR(Code of Federal Regulation)

My job kinda related with some of American laws, when i was going over some materials, this question just came up. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Astljames (talk • contribs) 09:10, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

United States Code is laws passed by congress. But congress doesn't want to get bogged down with tiny administrative details, so many laws it passes enable the executive (most often executive agencies) to make regulations - these are the Code of Federal Regulations. The relevant USCode defines the scope and powers of the executive's ability to make such regulations. 87.114.25.180 (talk) 11:06, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

To give a little more details; congress may pass a law which says "Coal-burning power plants must reduce their emissions to 20% of 2009 levels by 2020" or something like that. Then, the Environmental Protection Agency will develop a regulation designed to meet that goal, such as "Coal-burning power plants must install <XXX type of filter> whenever the plant is renovated" or "New plants must encorporate <XXX technology> to combat polution" or something like that. Congress passes laws, but the executive branch passes regulations which are designed to put those laws into action. The difference between a "law" and a "regulation" isn't really substantive; it's merely where it comes from. Congress could pass laws which contained the same sort of language that a regulation does. In the example above, Congress could pass laws mandating the use of certain technologies. Insofar as they didn't, the executive department "makes up the gap" between the text of a law and additional clarifications which are necessary to put the law into practive. The difference between the two is that regulations are constrained by the laws that authorize them; in almost exactly the same way that the laws Congress passes are constrained by the U.S. Constitution. --Jayron32.talk.say no to drama 12:09, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

On a side note, you may find the article Nondelegation doctrine interesting. Calliopejen1 (talk) 03:02, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Brownie problem

I made some brownies yesterday from a premixed dry ingredients package that was over a year old. I did not have any eggs so I substituted a tablespoon of oil for each egg recommended. Despite baking at standard brownie temperature, the brownies never really solidified, even after baking long enough that the edges were starting to become burnt. Was this because there is something in eggs that makes them set while baking, or could the age of the dry ingredients have caused the problem?

PS there were no herbal additives in the brownies. Googlemeister (talk) 16:24, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Hmm... let's see if I can remember enough Good Eats to answer this one. It's the eggs for sure; eggs are not (just) fat. For one, egg yolks contain emulsifiers that act to prevent the oil and water from separating (most box brownies I'm familiar with call for both). Additionally, the proteins in eggs will set at temperature, which probably lends supporting strength and allows the brownies to rise properly. Note that most box brownies call for an additional egg if you want "cakelike" (that is, fluffier) brownies, which lends credence to the idea that they're the primary agent that keeps the brownies from collapsing. — Lomn 16:38, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

(EC)While I cannot speak for your recipe, there is indeed something in eggs that makes them set while baking, which is not found in oil. Experimentally, you can see this by cooking an egg and cooking a small amount of oil: the egg will set and the oil will not. You know this, since fried, boiled, poached eggs are set. Theoretically, it is the proteins denaturing that are responsible; the oil does not contain significant amounts of protein. 86.140.144.220 (talk) 16:43, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

If you want to substitute eggs again, stock up on some Lecithin (from a pharmacy or health food store). You can also add a bit to sponge cakes and angel food cakes to make them fluffier. 71.236.26.74 (talk) 18:01, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

You can, however, replace the oil with an equal amount of applesauce. That works just fine and has less fat. Who then was a gentleman? (talk) 18:38, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

? 86.140.144.220 (talk) 20:41, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

? what? Who then was a gentleman? (talk) 22:43, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Export license

I want to mail computer memory (RAM) from the U.S. to a foreign country and am trying to determine if I need to get an export license for this. I can't seem to find where on the USPS web site (or anywhere else for that matter) where I might be able to find this information. Does anyone have better Googling skills than I do here? Thanks. howcheng {chat} 16:32, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

One important bit of info would be if you intend to do so commercially and on a large scale or if you just want to mail a couple of memory sticks home to a friend upgrading his/her computer? It is also important to note that there are countries to which you may not legally mail technology from the US.71.236.26.74 (talk) 17:55, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Oh, it's just a single one-shot eBay sale to Poland. However, I realize that there are a number of restrictions on mailing electronics to foreign countries, so I just need to figure out if this is even possible to do. Thanks. howcheng {chat} 20:51, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Don't quite have the time to dig up the exact page, but these 2 sites look like they could answer your questions. [21], [22] Hope this helps. 71.236.26.74 (talk) 21:43, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Ownership of lost library book

I am curious about something me and a friend were arguing over the other day. Suppose a person loses a library book they checked out from a library, and they paid a fine for it (the fine is greater than the market cost of the book), and then they find it a long time later, do they still have an obligation to return it? (The fine will not be refunded even if it is returned, due to the time elapsed.) My friend's view was that since the person paid the fine for it, which is at least the cost of the book, then they effectively bought it, and should be able to do whatever with it now. I disagreed, and my rebuttal was that when a person checks out a book, they have an obligation to return it, and that when a person loses it, they violate that obligation, and the fine is the punishment. As a punishment, and not business transaction, it does not need to transfer any rights to the punishee. The library never intended to give up ownership of the book, and thus should not be forced to now. Also, if it were the case that the fine transfers ownership, then hypothetically people could buy books from the library against the library's will, by "losing" them, which would be unfair to the library, especially since some of the books are out of print. What do you guys think? --76.91.63.71 (talk) 18:15, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

I once damaged a library book, courtesy of a monsoon-style downpour and a leaky rucksack, and returned it shamefacedly to the library to be told, as expected, that I would be charged for a replacement. I didn't mind paying, but was surprised and pleased when in return for my money, which came to a little more than the cost of buying a new copy from my local bookshop (probably to cover the cost of new labels, security tag, plastic cover and so on) I was offered the damaged book to take with me. My library effectively treated the transaction as a sale, not a punishment, and I acquired a tatty but readable copy of the book. I take the point that replacing an out-of-print book would be more difficult and perhaps more expensive, but most things can be obtained at a price and I suspect the library's rules would permit it to recharge a lost book at replacement value, whether that be the current publisher's price or that charged by a dealer for a second-hand copy of a rarer item. Karenjc 19:40, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

At all library I have had a card at, once the cost of a fine reaches the cost of a replacement, you are charged for a replacement and you keep your copy as stated by the above poster. Googlemeister (talk) 19:47, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

If it's been a while since you lost the book the library may also not want the book back. If they still find it in demand they'll have bought a replacement by now. Libraries do not keep all books they acquire. (Many libraries I frequented had periodic "book for a buck" sales of old stock.) If a book is not read often it will be replaced in the stacks by one more in demand. Only in rare cases like a frequently requested out of print book would a library like to have your copy back. 71.236.26.74 (talk) 21:11, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

I did that once - but it's VITAL to explain that the book is terminally, forever, utterly LOST - or else they may continue to levy late fees. I don't believe late fees count towards the price of the replacement book - hence it's critical to tell them that the book is LOST as soon as the charges look like they might be approaching the value of the book. However, as others have pointed out - once you've paid for a replacement - the book should be yours if it ever turns up again...however, not so if you've just run up the charges to more than the value of the book. SteveBaker (talk) 00:08, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Some libraries will refund most (but not all) of the book replacement fine that you paid if you find the book within the next X months (usually 6 or 12). This is a good thing if you're charged a flat Au$100 (~US$70) for a book, regardless of the cost of the book. Other libraries won't care. Generally, of course, it's cheaper to buy the book from a bookshop, so it's not worth borrowing and "losing" books from the library as a way of getting them.

Depends on the book and the replacement costs. If they charge a flat fee, then there will exist out of print books and textbooks which cost more than that flat fee.--droptone (talk) 12:19, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Please help

What are the qualities that a client interaction manager needs to have as I have an interview coming in couple of days” ideally the clients are the airline counterparts” , and I have to crack this interview coming in a couple of days.ANybody?? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.122.36.6 (talk) 18:17, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Your first two stops should be the job ad and the company's website. There's usually lots of information in there on what kind of people they have and would like to have. I think the closest we have is Customer relationship management which unfortunately isn't a very good article (some software company advertising). Customer service isn't much better. Your best bet is sitting yourself down (with a buddy/family member if you find it difficult) look at what image the company wants to portrait and what their customers' expectations are (look at some of their customers' sites, too) Then see how your abilities and experience can help them achieve those goals. Airline makes me think of keywords like sophistication, reliability, cost conscious, safety, just-in-time, on-call, 24/7, responsive. Trawling the sites will give you more precise examples. "I have accomplished X doing Y." is more effective than "I can do Y." or "I have done Y." 71.236.26.74 (talk) 20:10, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Driving in America.

I am a British driver of many years experience (thankfully no accidents) - but next year my wife and I are going to America for a holiday. We have been there many times in the past but I have never driven a car in America. Also, I have only once before (in Mallorca)driven a Left Hand Drive car (with a manual gearbox) but that wasn't aided by Spanish signposts. So can anyone here give me some advice on how easy or difficult I will find driving in America; and also point me to a "Highway Code" equivalent? And are there any helpful virtual reality Left Hand Drive simulation software programmes I could acquire - maybe a Wii game or similar? And finally, what level of insurance should I buy for sufficient cover? Thanks in anticipation.92.23.200.116 (talk) 18:35, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Well, the first thing you should know is that, if you rent a car in America, it will likely be an automatic transmission car; these are actually more ubiquitous in America than "standard" manual transmissions. You can get a manual tranmission car (I currently drive one) but, unlike many other places, they are not as common. Otherwise, you will probably find driving similar to other left-side steering countries. You will find the freeway system, the Interstate Highway System, to feature roads comparable to the Motorway system in the UK or the Autobahn in Germany. I have only ever driven in the U.S., Canada, and Mexico, so I don't have a lot of places to compare to. But in most places, guidesigns are fairly easy to follow, but your driving experience will vary greatly depending on where you intend to go. DO you have a place in the U.S. you are specifically heading? --Jayron32.talk.say no to drama 18:52, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Thanks Jayron and yes, I should have mentioned we will be flying to either Miami or Orlando in Florida, and then heading to Key West. Thanks again for your prompt reply. 92.23.200.116 (talk) 19:00, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Having gone the other direction (from US to UK), I can say that most of the transition is fairly straightforward. Keep particularly aware of left-vs-right turns: in the US, left turns are across oncoming traffic and should be given the same consideration you give right turns in the UK. There's no single source for a Highway Code equivalent, since states are free to enact their own particulars, but any one state's guidelines should be sufficient. I suggest perusing Tennessee's driver's license study guide for its coverage of road signs and conventions. If you prefer to check the state(s) you'll actually be visiting, try a Google search of "<state> DOT" or "<state> DMV" for the Dept of Transportation or Dept of Motor Vehicles, respectively. As for insurance, I would ask your own insurance company (they may provide insurance on a rented vehicle) or a travel agent for guidance. Most rental companies in the US are happy to offer their own insurance at time of rental, but the rates will probably be higher at that point. Exact minimums may vary, but to go back to TN as an example, liability insurance of $25000/person, $50000 total, and $15000 property is the minimum. Alabama has $25000/$50000/$25000 requirements for those respective categories. — Lomn 19:05, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Florida's minimum insurance requirements are $10000 personal and $10000 property liability. — Lomn 19:07, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Per Lomn, having done it in the other direction, it is fairly easy. Turns across oncoming traffic are notorious, though; beware of turning left, as you're conditioned to regard left turns as less inherently hazardous. You will quickly adapt to having 4 feet of car on your right instead of your left, and all the controls, save the shift (which will invariably be automatic) will be where you expect them to be. I personally found riding as a passenger in what I would normally expect to be the driver's side rather nerve-racking. Acroterion _(talk) 19:18, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

(EC) First of all you should e-mail a couple of prospective rental places and make sure they rent to foreigners. (The selection is surprisingly limited!) If you have relatives here it would probably be easier if they rented the vehicle and register you as second driver. You could probably buy insurance through AAA or even the local British equivalent (I know that some German relatives got s.th. through their auto club.) That may not come cheaper than the insurance the rental agency offers. One thing that is different in the States is that lots of our roadsigns are written in "plain text". We don't have many of these icon signs that you'll be familiar with in Europe. Some foreign people find it annoying that "Speed limit" sings come in two varieties "minimum speed" and "maximum speed". School zones are another thing that's not that easy to navigate. They have hours posted when the speed limit applies, but that's usually in such fine print you'd have to get out and study the sign to read that. Sometimes drivers will honk at others going at the "school zone" limit outside of the posted hours. Instead of roundabouts we have "Spaghetti interchanges" twisting exit/access roads in over and under passes. Exits can be on either the left hand or right hand side. One way to help you figure out lanes is to google your starting and destination addresses and then "test drive" the roads at maximum zoom in the satellite map view. That way you won't get many lane change surprises. There are fewer landmarks than in Europe, so navigation information will often be given in "miles driven" and compass directions. Get used to setting and monitoring your odometer. We can't navigate by pubs because we have so few of them :-) Make sure you know both the name and the number of the road you are supposed to take, labeling on signs isn't standard and may be either. Locals may even give you "nicknames" like "the Loop" or "the Bypass" you won't find on any map. Be sure to get complete street names. (e.g. there are several Main St. in Dallas, TX and it's suburbs and "Peachtree" can be anywhere in Atlanta, GA) If you plan a long drive be sure to take some bottled water. Hope this helps. 71.236.26.74 (talk) 19:45, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Not regarding saftey, but if you are driving in the Florida Keys, keep in mind that there are several drawbridges between the keys, and you might end up just sitting in your non-moving car for fairly long time periods (1-2 hours not uncommon) if you are going from one island to another. Googlemeister

Both Orlando and Miami are major tourist destinations and car rentals should be well prepared for tourists. Note though that Orlando is about 4 hours drive from Miami and at least one route is a toll road. There is a bus though. Key West to Miami is another 4 hours drive (if you are lucky). The whole distance from Orlando to Key West is about the same as the distance from London to Edinburgh. Rmhermen (talk) 20:08, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

That's what we had thought of LA, Calif. This was back in the 80s so things might have improved since then. We found that only 2 of the 8 local choices for rental car agencies would rent to foreign tourists and when we went to pick up the car the attendant had such trouble with the concept of non-US drivers license and no local insurance that we went ahead and rented the car for our relatives and paid the "additional driver fee". ... And you'll need a credit card. EC cards or cash won't get you anywhere in the US. For anyone under the age of 24 coming across this, watch out for the minimum age requirements. 71.236.26.74 (talk) 20:59, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

I'm Canadian and drove in the Orlando area last year. It is reasonably well signed. As Rmhermen mentioned, there are lots of toll highways (motorways). I'm pretty sure that if you rent a car at Orlando's airport (the car rental companies are pretty well organised there and most of the major ones are located on site), you almost have to hit a toll road on the way out. Either keep small change handy, or make sure you go to the booth with the attendant. Another thing to consider is a GPS device for your rental car. It add some expense, but may be worthwhile for driving in an unfamiliar place. As for insurance, if you have a "Gold" VISA or some other premium credit card, it may cover your insurance costs. Let's see.... Speeds are exclusively in miles per hour, and distances in miles. You can usually turn right at a red light after you've stopped, but make sure there are no local prohibitions. -- Flyguy649 ^talk 20:46, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Another very important thing you should remember is which direction traffic is coming from when crossing a street. A British friend of mine once told me that in Britain there are signs that warn tourists that traffic is coming from the right first instead of the left, but I have never seen anything like that in America (probably due to there being more tourists to England than from England). Just make sure that you look left first before stepping into traffic, as this can be a very simple (yet very dangerous) mistake to make, as your habit of looking to the right first is probably quite ingrained into you. —Akrabbim^talk 20:05, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Brilliant and very helpful responses to my plea for help. Thanks immensely to all of you. Anyone interested in meeting us at the airport and accompanying us to Key West? 92.23.200.116 (talk) 23:16, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

It's actually pretty easy to adapt to driving on the other side of the road. After about 10 minutes in the car (ie, by the time you're out of the airport car rental district), it'll seem pretty natural. The main things to watch out for are:

1. Single-lane roads - like the lanes between parked cars in a parking lot or a one-way street - where it's easy to lose track of which side of the road you're supposed to be on - resulting in a need to be extra-focussed when you next turn onto a more normal two-way road.
2. Intersections between "divided highways" (aka "dual carriageways") with other dual carriage-ways - where it's easy to get confused and wind up on the wrong side of the divider(Eeek!).
3. Other subtly different road rules (eg the "Right on Red" rule at traffic signals and the bizarre and often lethal rules of the infamous "Four way stop").
4. Crossing the street on foot...very dodgy! Fortunately, here in Texas, nobody does that - we all get into our cars and drive over to the other side of the street (You may think I'm joking...but I'm not!).
5. I've never had trouble renting a car AT AN AIRPORT with a British driver's license and credit card...however, I advise booking ahead just to be really, really 100% sure. Airports see foreigners renting cars every day - they take it completely in their stride. However, if you are at some back-of-beyond place - life won't be so simple. The credit card thing is very important. Almost nobody takes cheques anymore - and certainly not without an in-state driver's license. You can't pay for either car or hotel with cash! So make sure you have plenty of credit and charge cards!
6. There isn't a single "highway code" book - there is at least one for each state! The rules of the road in the USA are not completely uniform from state to state - and sometimes the differences are pretty serious. For example, in Texas, if there is a police car over on the hard shoulder - stopped. You are required to slow down to either 25 mph or 30mph below the posted speed limit (whichever is more) - or to change to a lane that is not adjacent to the police car. I doubt that this is the exact rule in any other state...but I guarantee they'll have other strange laws instead. There are all kinds of laws relating to how you drive near those big yellow school busses for example. One weird one I heard recently is that in Texas, it's legal to drive in bare feet - in many other states, it isn't. There are states in which it's illegal to fill up your own car with petrol - you have to wait for an attendant to do it for you. I once got pulled over in California (I think it was California) for having my high-beams turned on while driving on a dual-carriageway - even though there were no cars coming the other way!! There are MANY bizarre legal differences to catch you out...but I've found that having a British driver's license and a rental car will allow you to talk your way out of most cop-related traffic incidents...they really don't give a damn about you - and they can just mentally envisage the paperwork it's going to take them to file a charge and the unlikelyhood of you ever paying it! So be super-polite to the cops - look scared (not difficult - just notice the GIGANTIC firearm(s) they'll doubtless be carrying!) - and be suitably apologetic for not being aware of the local laws...99 times out of 100 that'll get you off with a warning.

Keep an eye on the speed limits too - they are generally lower than the UK - but (especially in small towns) they have a nasty habit of dropping the speed limit by 5mph for no readily discernable reason - SPECIFICALLY in order that the local police can earn money for their town by catching out-of town motorists and issuing speeding tickets. It's REALLY easy to fall foul of these on long trips - especially at night. You'll be driving at 70mph in a 70mph limit and a 60mph limit sign will flash past for no good reason - and before you know it, you're up for a $100 fine.

Incidentally - if you're going to be renting a car - it'll be an automatic for nearly 100% certain. If you aren't used to driving automatic (most Brit's aren't) - then that comes as a strange thing. Hardest of all to get used to are those automatics that don't have a hand-brake - but use a ratchetted foot brake instead. Doing a "proper" hill start in one of those comes as a bit of a puzzle! One rental car I had used a hand-activated lever down by your left knee to operate the "parking brake" - it was right next to the bonnet catch handle - and (to my embarrassment) I must have popped open the bonnet a dozen times at stop-lights before I got the hang of it!

The toughest "wrong side of the road" driving is driving a left-hand drive car in a right-hand drive country - or vice-versa. That's *NASTY*! SteveBaker (talk) 00:03, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Florida is flater than a pancake - hills aren't an issue! 75.41.110.200 (talk) 06:39, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

One thing that nobody has mentioned is the color of stripes along the road. In the US and Canada, yellow striping is reserved for the left edge of the part of the road you will be using in normal driving. In other words, a two-way road has a yellow stripe down the middle; a one-way road, including one half of a divided highway (dual carriageway), has it on the left. All other stripes are white. So the only times you should ever see a yellow stripe on your right are (a) if you are in a reversible middle lane such as a two-way left-turn lane, or (b) if you have pulled into the lane for opposing traffic in order to pass (overtake) on a two-lane road. (Of course, minor roads may have no stripes at all. And in cities, a one-way street may not have a yellow stripe on the left, but in that case it won't have one at all, only white stripes.) Also, stripes along the edge of the road are not used for parking restrictions. These are expressed by signs or in some places by painted curbs.

In general North American roads use stop signs far more than British roads and yield (give way) signs far less. Consequently people tend to disrespect stop signs, so don't trust other people to stop, but be smart and do stop yourself when you come to one. By the same token, the four-way stop is used for equal-priority intersections where Britain would use a mini-roundabout, which is essentially a four-way yield. At a four-way stop, whoever gets to the intersection first has priority to continue, and in case of a tie, the one on the right of the other has priority. A four-way stop is marked by a standard stop sign with a small plate underneath reading "4-WAY" or "ALL-WAY".

When parallel-parking, you must be facing the same way as in the adjacent traffic lane, i.e. park only on the right-hand side of the street unless it is one-way.

Traffic lights are placed on the far side of the intersection (in most states; a few place them over the middle of the intersection), but still govern whether you are allowed to enter the intersection. If the cross street is wide, you may have find yourself having to stop 100 feet before the light. Sometimes there is a sign "stop here on red signal" reminding you where to stop if you are first in line at the red; otherwise just stop at the first line across your half of the street. If you are turning left, you can pull forward into the intersection as soon as you have a green and then wait for a break in oncoming traffic. (That's if there is no separate signal giving priority for left turns.) Red-and-yellow is not used; if you want to know when the light is likely to turn green, you can keep an eye on the signal for the cross street.

In urban areas the left lane of freeways (motorways) may be reserved for "high-occupancy vehicles", in which case it is marked with diamonds and special striping. In many places two people in the car qualifies it as "high occupancy"; if signs say "HOV-2", that's what it means.

In navigating for long-distance travel, you primarily use the highway number and compass direction. Signs will show "north" and "1" in a highway emblem. The compass direction means the general direction along the road, not the direction of the local little bit where you are -- if you're from London, it's like "northbound" on the Underground (which got the idea from Americans). There are different emblems for Interstate highways (which are all motorways and keep the same number across state lines), US highways (which keep the same number across state lines), and state highways. In fact, almost every state has its own different emblem for its state highways! But you don't have to learn them all, just realize that different ones are used and go by the numbers.

In navigating in cities, note that the same named street may consist of disconnected segments -- this allows for the possibility that in a future year they will be connected. In some cities street addresses follow a systematic plan so that if Maple Street and Elm Street are both north-south, then 800 Maple Street will be due east of 800 Elm Street. So a short street may have large house numbers. In other cities, especially older ones, this is not the case. Street addresses often increase both ways away from an axis, so you have "800 North Elm St." and "800 South Elm St." (In some cities, especially in Canada, the compass direction comes at the end. Some cities have more complicated systems. If you see a compass direction not in the usual position for the city you're in, it's just part of the street name.)

Oh, in most states exits on freeways are numbered by distance, so "Exit 60" does not mean the 60th interchange (junction), it means the one 60 miles from the start of the road (or the state line). This is handy for knowing how far you have to travel, if you know the exit number where you are getting off. --Anonymous, 11:57 UTC, edited 12:01, July 14, 2009.

That last point though rarely applies to toll roads. Googlemeister (talk) 13:48, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Thanks again everyone - I think I'll just stay home - phew! 92.20.21.228 (talk) 20:01, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

And if you're overwhelmed by the prospect of driving in the US, have you considered flying to Key West? American Airlines has direct flights between Miami & Key West airport. It's definitely pricier but the flight's only 50 minutes. —D. Monack ^talk 02:42, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

metaphysics

Why do bad things, such as untimely death (i.e., in childbirth) happen to good people? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rkready (talk • contribs) 19:01, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

You may be interested in our article on the problem of evil. There is no universally-agreed answer. — Lomn 19:08, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Perhaps we only notice when they happen to good people and tend to shrug off bad things that happen to bad people. TastyCakes (talk) 19:21, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

The Book of Job addresses the same (or similar) issue - the article is long with much discussion of the philosophical aspects of the story - though it does seem fair to summarise that nobody really knows why unfair things happen. 83.100.250.79 (talk) 19:57, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

It's worth considering that, if they (bad things) didn't happen we would be either

Living in heaven

or Omnipotent gods

It's a vital part of being human - if you (like most people) find that something you have difficulty accepting I can recommend reading Suffering#Philosophy I find the thoughts of Schopenhauer, and to a much lesser extent Nietzsche comforting, I hope you do too.83.100.250.79 (talk) 20:04, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

It's also worth noting that seemingly innocuous and harmless concepts such as "comfort", "solace" require the opposite to exist for them to have any meaning - eg without strife there is no solace.

Thus to elimate suffering, you must also eliminate kindness, and comforting behaviour. 83.100.250.79 (talk) 20:17, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

They are independent of each other. corr(bad things|good people)==0. Plasticup ^T/C 20:16, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

comment The subjective identification of a 'bad thing happening' is quite dependent on who it happens to. Though I'm not disagreeing. 83.100.250.79 (talk) 20:18, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

It's a strange idea that if you help an old lady cross the road you should be less likely to be run over by a bus. Crossing the road will increases the chance of being killed fairly much irrespective of whether it was for a good or bad reason. Dmcq (talk) 22:57, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

This is similar to a question we had earlier about why it's easier to give in to bad habits than it is to pick up good ones. Our threshold for seeing something as "a terrible thing" depends entirely on who it happens to. We are less inclined to say that some event is bad when it happens to a bad person. If your mother's car gets stolen - you're horrified - but when a car thief's car get stolen, we have a good laugh about it. Even if a used-car salesman's car get's stolen, we wouldn't think that such a terrible thing because we don't have a lot of respect for that kind of person. Same event - three different people - produces three different grades of reaction. This is probably enhanced by the fact that we generally perceive (rightly or wrongly) that people close to use (friends and relatives) are more or less "good people" - and we react much more strongly to bad things happening to people we know than to complete strangers - that also introduces some inherent bias into our perceptions. SteveBaker (talk) 23:34, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

"Rain falls on the just and the unjust." Everyone has a bullet with their name on it. It's just a matter of what that bullet turns out to be. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 01:21, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

The rain falls always on the just/And also on the unjust fella/But mainly on the just because/The unjust steals the just's umbrella!--TammyMoet (talk) 10:15, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

… Burma-Shave. Deor (talk) 15:42, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

If it didn't rain, we wouldn't appreciate the sunshine. Stuff happens. 92.27.146.141 (talk) 18:21, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

...unless it got foggy...or cloudy...or we went indoors...or maybe if it got dark at night. Actually, that's a pretty amazingly meaningless saying. SteveBaker (talk) 06:07, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

It works just as well in reverse. If the sun didn't shine, we wouldn't appreciate the rain. Googlemeister (talk) 16:00, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

But I hate the rain...did the sun just stop shining or something?! Corollaries of these awful sayings are always good fun. I'm especially fond of "Every silver lining has a cloud" and "The early worm gets the bird"...which frankly, are a lot more true than the original statements from which they are derived. SteveBaker (talk) 22:44, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

Index funds

I live in Canada and have been putting money into Bank of Montreal index funds (S&P 500 and the TSX equivalent) on automatic payments. I am a little concerned that the fees for the funds are about 1% each - considerably higher than what I've heard index funds generally charge. Is there something I'm overlooking that makes up for this? As a Canadian, what are my other options? I don't think an ETF would work because transaction fees alone would quickly add up to more than 1% for my monthly deposits. Can I buy a fund automatically from a third party mutual fund company and ditch BMO? TastyCakes (talk) 19:20, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

In the US I know of actively managed funds that are from about 1.5% down to 0.3% with 1% being a bit above average. Whether or not this is typical for Canada, however, I can not answer, but recently on CNN I saw a chart that showed how well several funds did in 2008 and a higher fund price did not seem to correlate with a higher return. Googlemeister (talk) 19:41, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Thanks, I'm aware that mutual fund fees can go up to significantly higher levels. My question is for index funds, the type that buys everything in proportion to its presence on the market without any kind of analysis, and is (in theory) much cheaper as a result. TastyCakes (talk) 20:47, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Here's a chart of Canadian index funds with fees under 1%, as of April 2008. Clarityfiend (talk) 22:12, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Ah perfect, thank you very much. It would seem I should look into TD... TastyCakes (talk) 22:20, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

July 14

Hawaii state routes - Why are the numbers so big?

I was just in Hawaii and I noticed that some of the state routes have numbers over 7000. It seems impossible that Hawaii maintains that many state roads. Four digit numbers are a lot harder to remember than two or three digit numbers, so why does Hawaii use such large state route numbers? 71.227.1.59 (talk) 00:29, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

You may find the answer in the lead of List of Hawaii state highways which also notes that locals don't generally refer to them by number anyway. Nanonic (talk) 00:58, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

A more complete explanation is at the website hawaiihighways.com. — Michael J 21:33, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

78 rpm records

what year were the last commercial 78rpm records made?. Is there a a last particular song? does anyone make gramophone needles that do not have to be changed every song? how long do they last? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Payneham (talk • contribs) 00:35, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

I know they were made as recently as the 1950s. There used to be harder needles that were multiple-play. The old one-use needles were relatively soft and would conform to the grooves of the particular record. In fact, they supposedly could be used more than once if you were playing the same record over again a couple of times, but it wasn't recommended to push them very far. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 01:13, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

This article - Gramophone record - says that there were 78's issued as late as the 1970s, for some children's records, but does not specify titles. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 01:17, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

The one-play needles were for players that used acoustic reproduction. They became obsolete when electronic pickups appeared, by the 30s. By the 50s there were long-lived sapphire and diamond styli. The pickup would have a stylus for 78s on one side and a stylus for 33/45 on the other, and would be flopped as needed. PhGustaf (talk) 03:22, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Yes, I forgot to mention that point. The replaceable needles were used with Victrolas and Grafonolas and the like. Meanwhile, here's an interesting little writeup. It's possible that the last major-label issue of a 78 was a Chuck Berry release in 1960. [23] Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 03:27, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

The Grafonolas didn't last long. The oats and raisins made a real mess of the records. PhGustaf (talk) 03:40, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Well, I crunched right into that one. Victrola was invented by Victor to play their records. The Grafonola was invented by Columbia to play their records. Of course, they were interchangeable - they could play each others' records. Anyway, Victor became part of RCA which formed NBC radio and later NBC-TV. Columbia became CBS radio and later CBS-TV. Edison Records, despite a promising start, did not go the distance. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 03:53, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

And here's another article that talks about other 78's, not mentioning the Chuck Berry one, but notice that it's also 1960.[24] That sounds like a good bet for when 78 ceased to be considered commercially viable, although it seems that 78's were produced to some extent well beyond 1960. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 03:33, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

For a given company, it would be possible to determine the last 78 titles they carried in their catalog. In the 1950's recordings were released on both 78 and 33 or 45. In the late 1950's record stores stopped ordering 78's since their customers preferred the newer formats. Whole stocks of new 78's were sold out at five cents per record. at some stores. The later 78's were likely to be on vinyl and of pretty low surface noise and pretty high fidelity compared to 78 records of earlier decades. I recall reading about a rock group, probably in the 1970's who had a record released on 78 as a bonus to go with an LP album. The ols master cutting and pressing equipkent was still setting around unused in a corner of a factory. In India, the Beatles were released on 78 rpm in 1965, and new 78 records were released through 1974 [25]. Edison (talk) 22:04, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Per the site Bugs cited,[26], a Moby Grape LP in 1968 included a song recorded at 78 on the otherwise 33 LP 78. I still believe there was a LP release accompanied by a 78 record probably a few years after that. Fonotone, a small but respected label, issued 78s in the US through 1969. [27] See Joe Bussard about the owner of Fonotone. [28] says that R. Crumb (of underground comic fame) issued a 78 called "Wiscinsin Wiggle " circa 1975. [29] says it was recorded in 1972, but not when it was released. Edison (talk) 22:09, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

FWIW, I used to own a 78 single of Downtown by Petula Clark. Since that song was first released in 1964, 78's were certainly still being produced in the UK at least as late as 1964. My first (portable) record player was bought new in about 1972, and featured the dual flip-over 33 and 78 styli mentioned above. 87.194.161.147 (talk) 12:53, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

A lot of folks still had 78s even though they weren't really being made anymore, and many phonographs had the two-sided stylus you're talking about. One problem with 45s, being acetate, is that they scratched easily. 78s were probably superior technology - but bulky to carry. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 13:23, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

Lodgers in Britain

I remember reading in several novels about a group of retired people( who have no relatives),of which one or two of them are ex-servicemen, lodging together in some place like Blackpool( sea resort), the lodge is generally run by a widow/spinster. All of them stay, probably till they die, by paying their way out of pension.It is not exactly a old age home too. My question is do such establishements still exist in England today?Or did it go out of fashion since the 40's a& 50's? sumal (talk) 03:16, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

I think you are talking about bedsits. They certainly still exist, although my anecdotal evidence would suggest it is usually young people living in them rather than pensioners these days. --Tango (talk) 04:14, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

With the widowed landlady, it sounds more like a boarding house. Kind of like a small cheap hotel where the rules and behaviour are arranged more for the owner's convenience than the residents'. These both offered short-term accommodation for holiday visitors, and sometimes also had permanent residents as you describe.

I doubt there are many or any traditional boarding houses around any more. That is, the building and the business may still be running, but not like a 1950s boarding house. They will have turned into a small hotel or guesthouse, much nicer to stay at and less likely to have permanent residents, basically because standards of service and facilities have improved since then and nobody would want to stay in an old-fashioned boarding house. The beginning of Bill Bryson's "Notes from a Small Island" covers this quite well, describing his initial stay in the early 70s in a guesthouse verging on boarding house, followed by his return in the late 90s to find the area full of pleasant little hotels with the old-style ferocious landladies nowhere to be seen. 93.97.184.230 (talk) 07:55, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

In Australia there are still many of these left. They are called "boarding houses" although sometimes they are named "xyz Lodge". Often they are buildings not suitable for conversion to boutique hotels...too small and too old, often larger suburban family houses with more rooms obtained by subdividing the living room and enclosing verandahs etc.

Younger people (unemployed etc) often live in these, in "flatettes", which is a room with a cooking corner, shared bathrooms and "self-contained" (ie they are responsible for the cleaning). They may be around $120 a week, about half the unemployment benefit. Pensioners are more likely to be in simple rooms, with meals, basic cleaning, linen and laundry services provided.

They are NOT the "genteel poverty" type of places featured in UK books and movies...they are generally desperate poverty places, de facto nursing homes, taking all but $20 or $30 of the weekly pension for their "services", which are usually more neglect than service. There appears to be no regulation of this "industry" but every now and then a small scandal erupts over one. They survive because of a lack of hostel style State-provided accommodation for older people who are not sick enough to be in nursing homes, but not well enough to live totally independently.- KoolerStill (talk) 09:25, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Odd perspective in a photo

Front of building

Back of building

Looking back at some pictures I took and uploaded, I'm curious how I got the results pictured to the right. Both photos are of the same rectangular building, taken from two different angles: if the box below represents the building, the pictures are taken where the X's are marked.

  ____ X (back)
 |    |
 |    |
 |    |
 |____|
       X (front)

How is it that the building looks rather flat in the front picture but normal in the back? I've tried to remember how I took this picture, but I can't quite imagine how I did it, and although I photograph lots of buildings, I've never taken another picture like it of any building. Nyttend (talk) 03:22, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

I'm not a photography expert, but it looks to me like you were either using a different lens or that you were using the same lens (something with just a slight fisheye effect, as cameras often have) and that you might have been standing closer to the building on one side than on the other, tilting the camera upward to catch the roof, and thus "stretching" it more on that side. Both photos are "stretched", just the one side more than the other. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 03:29, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

In fact, the relative sizes of the windows tells me that you were definitely closer to the subject on the one, hence the stretching is more exaggerated. And now this is coming back to me. 50 MM focal length gives a "natural" perspective. That's what a typical single-lens-reflex camera will have. A typical aim-and-shoot will have a "wide angle" lens, such as 35 MM focal length, which allows more stuff in the picture but also causes the "stretching", which is why you can't take several pictures from such a camera and create a fake panorama. If you have a 50 MM lens, you can. I think that's what's going on in these photos - a wide angle lens from two different distances. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 03:39, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Are you sure the building is rectangular? Assuming the description of the photos are correct, the building is trapezium shaped (see Google Maps). And according to the EXIF data they're taken at the same focal length, ruling out any perspective change. --antilived^{T | C | G} 05:40, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

• Actually, since it's in North America, it's trapezoid-shaped. --Anonymous, 08:01 UTC, July 16, 2009.

I can't do Google maps on my antique PC, but I would point out that the second photo appears to be taken from significantly closer to the building. So if the camera is using a standard, somewhat wide-angle lens, then it would be more distorted when you're closer to it. In the first photo, he was able to get the building within a landscape framing. In the second one, being closer, he had to turn the camera sideways in a portrait framing (note the pixel counts are flipped from the first picture) to get the entire building in the shot. That exaggerated the stretching effect. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 05:47, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

I can do Google maps on work PC, which I just did, and you're right, the building is more like this (as best I can do using this method) although I would say my general explanation still applies:

  ____ X (back)
 |    |
 |    |
 |    |
 |    |
 |    |
 |   /
 |  /      X (front)
 | / 
 |/

Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 06:58, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Actually, no. The "stretching" you referred to is actually called foreshortening. With ideal lenses perspective has nothing to do with focal length; fisheye lenses are anything but common; creation of panorama does not depend on the lens focal length; and lastly there is nothing peculiar about the perspective in the second photo, it's the first photo with the building looking far flatter than possible if it were rectangular that is strange. That effect is the opposite of fisheye, and there aren't anything other than digital manipulation that I can think of, that would creat that kind of distortion. --antilived^{T | C | G} 12:32, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

In my experience, I can take a series of photos with a 50 MM and splice them together and make a decent fake panoramic. That won't work with an aim-and-shoot, due to the stretching that I referred to. It would be really nice if the original poster would get back here and comment some more, unless he's just pulling our lariat. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 14:33, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the explanations. You know, if I'd looked at the building in Google Maps first, I wouldn't have brought this up: it's so much simpler when I see that it's not rectangular! Sorry for not returning sooner; I've been taking and uploading pictures today, since the weather was great for photography. I can confirm that I took the pictures at the same settings with the same camera, etc.; other than the angle, the only difference between the photos was about one minute in time that it took me to go from one angle to the other. As well, my only image editing software is Windows Paint, and I'm not skilled enough to do anything significant with that :-) Nyttend (talk) 04:06, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

What about the physical distance from the building? Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 04:08, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

If you're still in the vicinity of that building, it would be interesting to take some photos from the exact distance away, on each side of the building, and do it in both portrait and landscape, and see the effects. Now that you're aware of what can happen, you could take several photos, each angle up a little more. If you feel like experimenting. :) Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 04:14, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

NO. See this, he's using a fish eye (probably 8mm or something) on a APS-C sensor DSLR, far wider than any 35mm lens. If by "stretching" you really mean distortion then I shall inform you that unless it's a really crappy camera (you can probably do panos even with a Holga) there will not be anywhere near that much distortion to change the way the photo looks. --antilived^{T | C | G} 12:24, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

All I can tell you is that the typical wider-angle aim-and-shoot camera distorts the image, or "stretches" it as I call it, such that if you take several individual shots and try to construct a panorama from them, it won't work - the edges won't match up. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 12:32, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

I like the idea of trying to get pictures from the same distance. However, I haven't a clue when (or if) I'll ever be back to the site; if I ever return, it will be months or years from now. As for the distance: I believe that they were taken from a similar distance, judging by the size of the windows. My goal was simply to get as much of the building as possible in each picture, so I basically aimed the camera at the building and walked backwards until I could get most or all of it in one shot. My camera is a Canon Powershot A540, quite similar to this one. Nyttend (talk) 15:03, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

An aim-and-shoot, with a wide-angle lens. I think that explains it. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 18:08, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

I used Google SketchUp's "Match Photo" feature to import the two photos and trace a rough 3D layout of the building and the camera positions. From that layout, I made the following calculations.

The photos seem to be taken with the same zoom or lens.

• The first photo is 56 degrees wide by 44 degrees tall.
• The second photo is 42 degrees wide by 54 degrees tall.

The distances from the camera to the building in each photo are similar.

• The first photo is at a distance 1.15 times the width of the building*.
• The second photo is at a distance 1.05 times the width of the building*.

(*the width of the wall that is visible in both photos)

--Bavi H (talk) 02:28, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

By the way, if you look carefully at the original photo, you can actually tell that the building is not rectangular. Up near the roofline there is a cornice with a row bracket-shaped things either holding it up or serving as decorations along the bottom of it. The upper rim of each bracket forms a rectangular shape, which is not distorted by anything except normal perspective. Now look at the place where the two walls meet. --Anonymous, 08:06 UTC, July 16, 2009.

Anti-Boycott

The Gap Inc. employee handbook[30] (page 8) states that:

"By law, Gap Inc. employees and agents may not support or cooperate with an unsanctioned boycott of another country that is "friendly" to the United States. The Company must report to the U.S. government any information or any request to support a boycott. . . If you learn of a boycott of another country that is "friendly" to the United States, call our Legal department."

However our boycott article says:

"In the United States, the antiboycott provisions of the Export Administration Regulations (EAR) apply to all "U.S. persons", defined to include individuals and companies located in the United States and their foreign affiliates. The antiboycott provisions are intended to prevent United States citizens and companies being used as instrumentalities of a foreign government's foreign policy. The EAR forbids participation in or material support of boycotts initiated by foreign governments, for example, the Arab League boycott of Israel. . . However, the EAR only applies to foreign government initiated boycotts: a domestic boycott campaign arising within the United States that happens to also have the same object as the foreign-government-initiated boycott is completely lawful, assuming that it is an independent effort not connected with the foreign government's boycott. . . Inducing government action through lies or fraud, attempting to suppress free speech through intimidation, or falsely claiming that a domestic boycott campaign is foreign governmental in origin may, in fact, constitute conspiracy against civil rights, a Federal felony, punishable by fine and imprisonment."

Is there any justification for the Gap Inc. policy? Has there been any controversy or lawsuits about this? Note that this is a request for information, not for legal advise. Thanks, --S.dedalus (talk) 04:02, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

It sounds like Gap might be a little overzealous in its approach. But why would you assume the wikipedia article has the facts right? Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 04:08, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Because in the U.S. free speech is considered an inalienable right. Thus limiting the ability for an individual to campaign for a boycott would be a HUGE deal. I think I would have heard about it. --S.dedalus (talk) 04:19, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Freedom of speech has to do with protesting against the government. It does not extend to undermining a company you work for. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 04:38, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

In this case the issue isn't directly attacking the company you work for, but rather supporting a political position which may or may not harm Gap. I'm very confidant that that is protected by free speech laws. Do you have sources that would suggest otherwise? --S.dedalus (talk) 04:48, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

OK, I see the distinction your making. If all the initial facts you stated are true, it could in fact be what I would call a "legalistic bluff", to put it politely. But it could also be an attempt by Gap to show loyalty to America and its allies. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 04:54, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

You're way off on this free speech thing. It's got nothing to do with that. As Baseball says, first amendment issues only apply to the government. The use of the "friendly" language highly suggests this is an issue of some treaty or other labor law with some esoteric background. The first amendment's a huge red herring here. There are some laws, particularly state laws, that will protect workplace political speech, but this is not a constitutional issue, but rather one passed by the state legislature. In fact, freedom of association under the first amendment will give some organizations the ability to exclude members that do not agree with their social positions, political or otherwise. Shadowjams (talk) 05:54, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

If I'm understanding the question correctly, let's say a private Muslim organization in the U.S. wants to boycott sales of jeans to Israel. Some employees of Gap decided to support that boycott. In effect, then, you have employees of Gap supporting a move that would hurt sales of their own company. No company is going to stand for that kind of activity, nor should they. There is no constitutional right to employment in a particular job. If you're working for a company and at the same time working against that company, you're gone. End of story. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 04:16, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Not at all, firing someone based on their political views is employment discrimination, and thus illegal in the US. --S.dedalus (talk) 04:23, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

You do not have the right to earn income from a company while at the same time engaging in behavior that undermines that company's ability to earn income. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 04:38, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Not on company time to be sure, but on you're own time I'm pretty sure the company has no right to interfere with your freedom of speech. I would be very interested in sources which refer to this though. --S.dedalus (talk) 04:43, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

So would I. Merely supporting a political party on your own time, for example, should be out of reach of a company's tentacles. But directly engaging in activity that undermines your company would have to be a no-no, I would think. As a simple example, imagine a PETA supporter working for McDonald's part of the time and then in off-hours participating in a march outside a McDonald's with the intent to intimidate potential customers. No company would, or should, have to stand for that. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 04:50, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Speaking of sources, what's the source for that Gap policy? Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 04:55, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

A booklet called Welcome to Gap Inc. page 8. It's the official reference book for store policy used by Gap employees. I don't believe a copy exists online, but I could be wrong. --S.dedalus (talk) 05:01, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

What do you know!! It DOES exist online: [31] page 8 --S.dedalus (talk) 05:07, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Interesting. Looks like a standard code of conduct, kind of similar to my own company's. Codes of conduct can be summarized fairly simply: Don't engage in any activity that could harm the company in some way. This means things that are illegal or unethical. Making honest but bad business decisions are outside the scope of such documents, as that's a whole different story. :) But you left out some key parts of it which I'm emphasizing, along with emphasizing a keyword that your original quote included. That changes the flavor of it, and seems to have to do with on the job activities. It has to do with another company saying, to an individual within the Gap company, such as a salesman, "If you'll support this boycott, we'll buy your product." That would be clearly unethical behavior. I also noticed it's dated 2005, but I can see why they would say this:

"By law, Gap Inc. employees and agents may not support or cooperate with an unsanctioned boycott of another country that is "friendly" to the United States. The Company must report to the U.S. government any information (about which it has knowledge) or any request to support a boycott. A company could make such a request in a bid invitation, purchase contract, letter of credit, or verbally. If you learn of a boycott of another country that is "friendly" to the United States, call our the Legal department."

Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 05:24, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Good call, and my bad. I didn't see any particular significance in those "legal definition" words, but now that you point them out, I see your point. Clearly what you describe would be unethical. --S.dedalus (talk) 05:51, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

The trouble is that sometimes the wording on these codes of conduct are kind of obscure, like they're trying to say something but trying not to quite say it the way you and I would say it. The hypothetical they're describing strikes me as the flip side of a salesman being approached by someone who is not "friendly" to the U.S. Let's say Iran. That's a safe bet right now. If someone from Iran approached a Gap salesman and said, "We'll buy your product if you'll do such-and-such or NOT do such-and-such", that would also be serious trouble brewing - depending on current laws regarding trade with Iran. Cuba comes to mind also. Those kinds of cases are obviously a little more clear-cut, but I think they're all part of the same ethical/legal topic. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 06:00, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

I've seen a variant of this Gap language in the employee handbook of at least one company I have worked at which was not in textiles nor retail sales. As mentioned above, this exists specifically because of the Arab League boycott of Israel; at one time a lot of faxes were circulating trying to prod random US companies into joining the boycott. Tempshill (talk) 06:41, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

That explains why they included it, and also why they worded it vaguely, so as not to target any one group and thus risk complaints of anti-Arab bias. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 12:21, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

MBA college

Is EIILM kolkata cumpus under University Grants Commission (UGC)?Supriyochowdhury (talk) 07:12, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Nominal Diameter of a pipe

The structural steel pipes are designated by nominal diameter. But the dimensions neither internal diameter nor the external diameter match with the nominal diameter. What is meant by the term NB? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Prasantachdash (talk • contribs) 07:53, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

"Nominal" means in name only, and is merely a convenient label. As you have observed, true values are not the same as the nominal value. As for your second question, NB can mean several things. See NB.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 08:20, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Looking through the list it is likely OP was asking about "nominal bore". 71.236.26.74 (talk) 17:47, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

We have an article on Nominal Pipe Size that should answer your questions including NB. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 12:58, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Quick to get bored and tired/frustrated

Read some articles on the internet that an average worker works productively for a total of about 4 hours on 8 hours work day. Some in slashdot claim that their productive work amounts to 6 hours per day. I do not work for anybody, I am preparing a comprehensive manuscript for my own use. People always do more when they do something for themselves. Based on that assumption, my productive hours should be about 6 hours per day. However It is not even 3 hours in my case when I sit for about 10 hours in front of the computer. I get burned out too easily and boredom sets in too easily. I can concentrate on a task continously for about 20 minutes. All of the figures gets a lot worse if I were to do something for others. It gets even more terrible with the increasing complexity or difficulty of the task. No big problems with intelligence as I have consistantly scored above average in IQ tests. Generally speaking - patience , motivation, mental energy, interest,involvement = too low and boredom potential, frustration trigger= too high. Please say how it could be fixed? 131.220.46.26 (talk) 13:39, 14 July 2009 (UTC)frustrated

Seems to me that you are doing the wrong things. Motivation comes either from an intense personal interest, or from some external force. i.e. Recruits conscripted into an army are <motivated> (OK that's the wrong term but it suffices here) by the fear of what will happen if they do not follow orders. Similarly people in enmployment are motivated at least in part by the need for the salary. You obviously do not need more money, so your work must be boring to you. Change your work!86.209.28.63 (talk) 15:35, 14 July 2009 (UTC)DT

As someone who spends a lot of time working on writing himself, I will note that I can't do more than 3-4 hours of writing per day. I can do a lot more of other kinds of work, but writing is for me especially mentally taxing, and after 3-4 hours of it I'm basically unable to work very effectively at it. I don't think this is unusual (I know many others who do similar types of work and have similar tolerances). It is obvious that certain types of work are more taxing than others. This happens even if you love the work.

My recommendation would be to try some different work habits. Try working in a different location. Try taking a break and exercising half-way through the day. If you have a flexible schedule, you should be able to try a lot of different things. Trying going for a swim mid-way in the day. Try not drinking as much coffee, or drinking more of it. I hang around a lot of people who spend a lot of their time doing self-motivated writing, and everyone has a different strategy for keeping on task and not getting burnt out. There's no easy answer to it, but you should feel empowered to mix up your schedule a bit. --98.217.14.211 (talk) 18:19, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

(EC) If you're not doing the wrong things you may be doing them for the wrong reasons. Some people get a kick out of solving differential equations while others enjoy sorting a stamp collection that would "bore the socks off" people who don't. Just because someone says you're "supposed to" like doing something doesn't make it right for you. Maybe the rewards you are getting are too far removed from your activities? In that case, splitting things up into smaller units and working on several different tasks in rotation may work for you. Some people are even most productive when their minds can entirely detach itself from any outside or self-imposed reward scenario. Since you seem to be working from home you have already found out that a standard office/employment set up doesn't work for you. Vice versa working at a home office doesn't work for everyone either. Some people need to step away from their home setting and its distraction. Some need deadlines and supervisors who monitor their productivity. There is no mold for people. Find out what works for you and forget what you think is supposed to work. If the end result is positive, no one cares whether you achieved it in one 10 hr. stretch or several 20 min. intervals. If you really find your situation untenable there are workarounds you can train for that are designed for AD (no HD) sufferers that might work for you. There are training centers in major cities. Ask s.o. from a health profession to direct you towards a reputable one. 71.236.26.74 (talk) 19:11, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

If you have considered you may have one variety of ADHD, you may wish to consult a doctor. Tempshill (talk) 16:13, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

Nice of you to direct me to ADHD. From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adult_attention-deficit_disorder, I have symptoms of both ADHD-I (Procrastination, Avoiding tasks or jobs that require sustained attention, etc) and ONLY 2 of ADHD-H symptoms ( Impatient,Intolerant to frustration). It is probable that I have ADHD or AD or some other psychological disorder. Because, I get bored quickly / loose attention / become frustrated very easily in all but simplest of tasks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.220.46.25 (talk) 12:36, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

What's the Big Deal with Sexual Intercourse?

What has elevated the act of sexual intercourse in our society to such a big ordeal as to warrant us in placing laws on age of consent and such? What is different between sex and other physical actions such as a handshake? Why does one not need to be 16, 18 or 19 years of age to shake hands? Acceptable (talk) 14:26, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

The typical handshake is not an invasive procedure. Although, given the spread of germs like the swine flu through manual contact, adopting the Asian practice of bowing instead of handshaking might be a good thing. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 14:30, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

And vaguely related, there's the social cost - unwanted pregnancies, the spread of venereal diseases, etc. - and specifically regarding the age of consent, to protect the young from predators. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 14:36, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Orgasm, and sexual arousal are the big thing. It involves a psychological state that people find, understandably, potentially subversive. I think this is the first and foremost reason for society's brakes placed upon sex acts. Bus stop (talk) 15:40, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Adults can do whatever they want. Children have to be protected from predators. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 17:17, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

You may well ask what the point is of having laws in the first place. Truth is, if you ignore laws and nobody locks you away, you haven't really done anything wrong. Vranak (talk) 16:43, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

The line had to be drawn somewhere. There can be disagreements as to where the line were drawn. The law may be defining children, or it may be defining sex. But the differentiation between sexual union and grasping another person's hand for a bit of shaking is the state of mind involved. I don't mean to be pedantic, but I'm just answering the question asked, in the most direct way possible. If the questioner meant something other than the issue I'm addressing, then let the questioner clarify the question. Bus stop (talk) 17:37, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

I'm not sure what it is the questioner is asking. But the law can't say "case by case basis", even if that would be logical. To give a mundane comparison, consider the legal mininum age to drive a car. There might well be 12 year olds who would do a better job of driving than the average 16 year old. But the law has to be consistent in order to prevent endless court cases over the same question: "My kid's old enough to... [whatever]". Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 17:40, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

The only really regulating laws on sex in most Western societies these days are in fact only the age of consent (and is no other "and such" except in societies that outlaw adultery, premarital sex, and homosexuality, all of which are fairly commonly outlawed in non-Western parts of the world). Age of consent is simply because it is recognized that adults will prey on youths who are sexually inexperienced and do things to them that the youths in question (much less their parents, etc.) later recognize as being abusive and undesired. The specifics of what age to put it at is a social norm. If you do not see the difference between shaking hands and having sex... I suggest that maybe you're not old enough to have sex yet. ;-) They're not the same sort of thing, at all, which one can rather easily see if one contemplates all the people you'd be happy to shake hands with but not have sex with. --98.217.14.211 (talk) 18:10, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

I'm not sure Baseball Bugs' repeated reference to "predator" is that helpful. Many merchants, especially those targeting children, are predatory, but most of the time we don't lock them up for it.

The main justification for age of consent laws is, as 98. pointed out, that (1) the young are judged to be unable to make a fully informed decision about such issues. This is important because (2) the psychological, social and physical consequences of their (uninformed) decisions can be profound.

On point 1: of course, some individuals are more mature than others, and some people may experience no negative effects from sexual activities at a young age; nevertheless, the law seeks to protect the generality.

On point 2: that is the difference between sexual activities and, say, a handshake. Whereas a handshake is unlikely to have severe negative consequences (with potential exceptions, as pointed out above), sexual activity may. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 22:10, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

The word "predator" has a very specific meaning in this context, i.e. paedophile. --Richardrj ^{talk email} 15:08, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

Note that some places do have different ages for various things, e.g. closeness of age, person in position of trust or authority. And there are of course many other age restrictive laws e.g. for forming contracts, getting tattoos, piercings, smoking, drinking, drugs, pornography Nil Einne (talk) 01:35, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

What's the difference between sex and a handshake? Well, say you're blindfolded. You can shake hands with anyone, and it doesn't make a difference who does it -- you'll feel the same. But let's say someone -- pardon me for assuming you're a heterosexual man here -- performs oral sex on you. If sex were like a handshake, oral sex would feel the same no matter who's doing it. But what if you take off your blindfold and find that the person performing a sex act on you is your mother! Or a guy! You would be horrified. That's because sex is only pleasurable when it is based on mutual attraction and consent. Otherwise, it is violation. Even if it doesn't feel like violation at the time, you might see it that way later. That's why there are laws against sexual contact in situations where one party's ability to grant meaningful consent is questionable, such as between children and adults or between jail guards and inmates. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 02:23, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

Or how bout this? A stranger walks up to you, grabs your hand and shakes it. This may strike you as odd but you probably wouldn't be particularly upset. Now, replace handshake with sex and adjust your feelings accordingly. That's the difference. 164.156.231.55 (talk) 13:11, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

Police receive complaints about lewd activities at the local lover's lane and send a cop to investigate. He spots a car parked in the lane, in the car are a young man and a girl. The girl is knitting and the man is reading a comic book. Suspiciously the cop demands "What are you doing here"? The boy answers "In half an hour she'll be 18". Cuddlyable3 (talk) 14:43, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

Scientology told me who I am

I am not my past, my failures or anything similar. Isn't that incredibly nice? Where did they get this definition about me?--Quest09 (talk) 15:30, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

We have lots and lots of articles on scientology, including Oxford Capacity Analysis. Friday (talk) 15:33, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Though one can argue quite forcibly that you are, in fact, made up of your past experiences. That doesn't necessarily mean you can't change your path, but to pretend the past experiences are negligible is decidedly silly. Ditto failures. Beware people or groups who only tell you things you'd like to hear. --98.217.14.211 (talk) 22:34, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Telling you what you want to hear... those kind of people are called salesmen. Fittingly, someone was asking about how to become a salesman. The secret is to (1) be willing to lie; and (2) be willing to believe the lie yourself. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 23:31, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Well, it might be comforting - but it's awfully trite...and WRONG. Of course you are your past...your intellect is the sum of what you have learned...what you have been. Everything you own comes from your past. Another well worn phrase says that we learn by our failures. If that's true (and it's certainly true in part) - then we are (in part) the sum of our earlier failures. SteveBaker (talk) 05:59, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

The notion that "you are not your past" could be a shorthand way of saying that you don't have to be a "prisoner" to your past. Like the old saying, "Today is the first day of the rest of your life." Whatever you've done before, each day is a new opportunity to do better. Wow, I'm starting to sound like that salesman. I leave you with these words: "Good, better, best / Never let it rest / Till the good is better / And the better is best." Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 08:05, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

Negative theology describes God in terms of what (S)He is not. L. Ron Hubbard founder of Scientology turned this around to define the spirit of an individual in negative terms. Scientologists get their ideas from Ron's books. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 14:30, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

So that's their excuse. Well, I wonder what would have happened if Hubbard and Norman Vincent Peale ever met. Would they explode, like matter and anti-matter? Or would they have merged into a super-evangelist? Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 17:55, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

I think it was 50 Cent who said (and I may be paraphrasing) "Where you're at is more important than where you're coming from - but if you don't know where you're coming from, how are you ever gonna know where you're going?". I agree with the sentiment. --Kurt Shaped Box (talk) 18:04, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

As long as you don't let it be an anchor that keeps you from where you want to go. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 18:07, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

Deprecated: people

Could certain kinds of people become deprecated in the same sense that some old technology is deprecated? I mean, currently if you only have some basic instruction, you can still find some kind of work, in a farm cleaning or such simple things. However, if a robot, that is cheaper and good enough, could cope with such tasks, many people would logically become deprecated.--Quest09 (talk) 17:44, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

I'm not sure I understand your use of the word "deprecated". Dictionary.com gives: dep⋅re⋅cate

   /ˈdɛprɪˌkeɪt/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [dep-ri-keyt] Show IPA Use deprecated in a Sentence –verb (used with object), -cat⋅ed, -cat⋅ing. 1. to express earnest disapproval of. 2. to urge reasons against; protest against (a scheme, purpose, etc.). 3. to depreciate; belittle. 4. Archaic. to pray for deliverance from.

--TammyMoet (talk) 18:09, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

I used to do an office job in the days before computers became commonplace. Most of what I did could have been more easily and cheaply done by a computer. It was incredibly boring, so I resigned and did something else (doing a degree). My skills at that time were 'depreciated' - perhaps you mean redundant - but I wasnt. 92.27.146.141 (talk) 18:15, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

You're looking for occupations that are now obsolete? Sure, there's lots of them. All sorts of craftsmen existed to skillfully craft things that now are either no longer needed, or are simply mass-produced by "unskilled" labor. "Parchment Maker" used to be a job, so did "Arrow Maker". The former is no longer in demand, the later is no longer a craft.

Or are you asking if "people" as a whole might be made obsolete? That's not really possible to answer. Someday, perhaps. APL (talk) 18:21, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

An arrow maker is a fletcher, and it is still a craft, although not much in demand - see this search for handmade arrows. Warofdreams talk 18:40, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Fletcher! I knew there was a word for that. It could be argued that the occupation is still obsolete even if there exists a specialty market. (You can still buy brand new sliderules!) APL (talk) 01:01, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

No, I am not looking for obsolete occupations, since I know that there are lots of them. I used deprecated in the sense of deprecation, something that is a bad choice, even if it could work. I really mean that people with only basic skills could get obsolete very soon. That means that not even poor farmers would want them, since robots could be cheaper and better than them. --Quest09 (talk) 18:24, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

(after e/c) I think this is the use given in Wiktionary, #3: "...considered obsolete but still available for use...". A beter term would be that the person (or, more usually, their skills) had become obsolescent. Under capitalism, this would lead to unemployment, and if there was no suitable alternative work in the economy, the answer would probably be retraining. If that is not available, or not possible, then the person would be in the same situation as someone who is currently unemployable (for example, because of health problems or addictions). Either social welfare can support the person (possibly with a requirement that they undertake specific tasks), or they can be left to survive, or not, on charity. Some theories of unemployment note that, in the absence of minimum wage and trade unions, markets will tend towards full employment - for example, this theoretical person could find work if they were cheaper than the robot - but that's little comfort if the amount you will receive is less than enough to survive on. Warofdreams talk 18:31, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

In the computer science usage, the people who can say that a feature is deprecated are the people who have authority over that feature, and a plan for the future. For example, a standardization committee can say that a library function is deprecated, because they expect to drop it from the next version of the standard. Or Microsoft can say that an API function is deprecated, because it has some problem and they plan to drop it from a future version of Windows. In a market economy, there is nobody who can say with authority that certain people or occupations will be "dropped" in the future. Instead, the individual market actors either do, or do not, hire such people. If there is not enough demand for a certain occupation, it may die out, but that lacks the deliberate planning that "deprecation" implies. -- Coneslayer (talk) 18:47, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

By the year 2050 our W2 tax statements will come with a warning that human labor has been declared deprecated by the robot council. APL (talk) 01:01, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

You mean an occupation that has become less valued right? Hand weaver?83.100.250.79 (talk) 21:14, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Hand weaving is a specialty product and can fetch premium prices. It is not as common as it once was in developed countries but there is still some demand. And to the OP, while many robots paint, assemble and weld and computer "expert systems" have replaced other industry jobs, farming has been almost untouched by robots so far. Mechanization has reduced the number of farm laborers needed in developed societies but we don't have robots picking ripe fruit and avoiding rotten ones yet. 75.41.110.200 (talk) 23:08, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Like this? - True story! SteveBaker (talk) 05:50, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

Tender

Hello, Please could some one help me, I have the opertunity to gain a large contract with the UK government or my local council, all I need to do is submit a tender, stating how much I will charge to do the work, (construction mostly, painting platering ect)However I need to have this tender in a specific format. Where could I find a template for this? I have tried google but most of the sites want to charge you to do this for you. I have read our article called tendering but this was of little help. All I need is a template, or instructions on how it should be set out. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.3.147.65 (talk) 18:16, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

To be honest if you don't have the requisite experience/knowledge in tendering for a contract then you're probably not going to get anywhere without professional help. However you could look at [32] or [33] for a start. Exxolon (talk) 18:36, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Also have a look at the website of the council/government branch you'd like to submit your tender to. Most have rules posted. Here's an example I googled for Brighton [34]. Check the required qualifications carefully especially on insurance and only submit a tender if you can meet all of them. (OR I second Exxolon's opinion that you may need help. If you think the paperwork is daunting now, it usually gets worse during the contract phase. Budget including lawyer fees.) -- 71.236.26.74 (talk) 19:56, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Also, just as a purely FYI kind of thing: no matter what the manner of work involved, knowledgeable people will not think highly of someone who makes spelling and grammatical errors or leaves in typos, etc. Here, you're just posting on a board to ask your question (you don't need to break out your dictionary to post!), but if this is the kind of spelling and sentence structure you use all the time, you may also want to ask (or employ) someone to copyedit your proposal before submitting it. It may seem like a stupid thing to worry about, but sloppiness is sloppiness, and it would be a shame to lose a valuable "opportunity" to something so trivial to fix. Matt Deres (talk) 20:42, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Know your competition. You may be up against bidders who deliver their tender in a smart binder with glossy pictures of previous work and impressive references. Further to Matt Deres'As good advice, as a minimum get your tender smartly laid out using a word processor. Put it in a plastic wallet and post it in a full size envelope - no folding. There are plenty of secretarial services that can do all this for you, and their advice is worth gold. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 14:04, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

CEO what??

What does a CEO of a company do????while we slog our A**** out.. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 61.95.140.188 (talk) 18:23, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

I'm intrigued to know what A**** is - are you slogging your asses out? How is that even possible? Anyway, we have an article on Chief Executive Officer, but that (perhaps tellingly) barely covers what a CEO does. There's an attempt at a definition in the corporate title article: "The CEO of a corporation is the highest ranking management officer of a corporation and has final decisions over human, financial, environmental, technical operations of the corporation. The CEO is also a visionary, often leaving day-to-day operations to the President, COO or division heads. Other corporate officers such as the COO, CFO, CIO, and division heads report to the CEO. The CEO is also often the Chairman of the Board, especially in closely held corporations and also often in public corporations." It might be better to say that these are things which a CEO may typically do, but it's not uncommon for senior managers to have considerable say over the actual tasks they undertake personally, and delegate some roles. Warofdreams talk 18:48, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

This website http://managementhelp.org/chf_exec/chf_exec.htm and links therein may be of help. They do a huge amount of things. What they do will probably differ enormously from 'those who slog their A**** out' but that doesn't make it any less hard work. Effective delegation of work is surprisingly difficult, and I can say that from my experience mental-tiredness is every bit as bad as physical-tiredness (that is my statement to those who think that only manual labour is 'real' work and anything else is just pen-pushing). ny156uk (talk) 20:06, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

I don't know exactly what CEO's do, but I used to wonder what general managers did, unit the day a manager gave me some paper of old accounts, managerial stuff etc to shred - there was literally tons of the stuff - it was a small company and I didn't see anyone else making it - so perhaps they "work like dogs" too. Deep down we all hope so : )

83.100.250.79 (talk) 21:09, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

It's also worth pointing out - that one does not always have to work hard in order to make a massive contribution to the company. Many years ago - when we were using BIG expensive computers to make flight simulators and I was just a junior engineer, I found a sneaky way of using one $70,000 graphics card instead of three. We sold a hundred of those machines - so in about one day's work, I saved the company $14,000,000. Back then that would have paid my salary for perhaps 280 years! The point is that it's perfectly possible that a particular CEO or other "overpaid executive" might spend 90% of his/her days at the golf course - but if just once every few years (s)he saves the company a few millions of dollars - or brings in millions of dollars of new business - then (s)he may well be vastly more valuable than the 'mere mortals' working their asses off doing the grunt work. The disparity of pay and privilages may well seem unfair - but business is about practical economics - not some ideal of fairness. One has to be pragmatic. SteveBaker (talk) 05:45, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

The CEO is responsible for everything the company does — the creation of every widget, the thinking up of every idea, and the pouring of every cup of coffee. It's impossible for 1 person to invent all the widgets, manufacture them, pack them up, market them, sell them, and collect the money; so the CEO hires underlings — often a President and some Vice Presidents — and divides up all the company's duties between them, so they each are responsible for some part of what the company does. So, now there's a Vice President of Manufacturing who is responsible for creating every widget. Impossible, again, so that Vice President hires some underlings and divides up their duties; and so on; until the company is fully staffed, and the CEO is in fact able to do everything that the company is supposed to be doing, through all these underlings. Without knowing where you work and what you do, it's impossible to tell whether the CEO job is harder than your job as you slog your A**** out. (One correction to the first sentence in my reply here: The CEO is responsible for everything at the company, except that the board of directors, which is supposed to represent the interests of the shareholders (the owners of the company), is responsible for hiring and firing the CEO, and is also supposed to be responsible for decisions on which the CEO has a conflict of interest, like setting the CEO's pay, and overseeing an annual audit.) Tempshill (talk) 06:29, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

So the Sword of Damocles applies to these guys?--Lenticel ^(talk) 06:46, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

It often does. If a company's performance fails to live up to expectations, the board may can the CEO and leave most of the staff intact. CEO is a high-risk, high-gain/loss position. As well it should be. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 08:02, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

It's less risky if your contract provides for a Golden parachute though. AlmostReadytoFly (talk) 09:22, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

It should also be noted that a high percentage of CEOs last less then 18 months at their job. Googlemeister (talk) 13:31, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

The modern CEO will always have an exit strategy. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 17:53, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

Criminal Injuries compensation in the USA

I hope this question doesn't cause any offence to any US readers who may know the background to it - that is not my intention, and I apologise in advance. I live in Scotland (part of the United Kingdom) and was today walking in the Highlands with my wife and dog when we met some really charming visitors from California. We got chatting and in doing so, a middle 30s looking guy told me how his wife had been murdered in a multiple shooting and suicide event in a Post Office in Santa Barbara a couple of years ago. He and his son were visiting friends in Scotland and I was so sorry for him and expressed my horror at his awful experience. He was so sad at losing his wife but at the same time, he was so grateful that he still had their son with whom he had a very strong and mutually supportive relationship after their terrible loss. I wished I could have been more understanding and supportive but as strangers walking in opposite directions, that simply wasn't possible. But we did part as friends and I wished him every good wish imagineable for the future. But afterwards, I got to wondering what practical, financially compensatory, and counselling support he and his son might have had from the State of California in particular, and the United States of America in general. Clearly, as a widower the devastating effects on his home and professional life and the increased responsibility for caring for and raising his son would be dramatic to say the least. Is there anything in the USA akin to the British Criminal Injuries Compensation Board which makes awards to the victims, and families of victims of crime, in varying amounts and circumstances? I certainly hope so. Just concerned and curious. Thanks. 92.20.21.228 (talk) 20:37, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

There are various victim compensation schemes. As an example see California Victim Compensation and Government Claims Board. A US American ref desker will be able to give you more information.

PS: I have unindented your question to keep with the format of the ref desk. I hope you don´t object.--Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 21:01, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

_{removed repeat of question below}86.4.186.150 (talk) 22:11, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Blood in mouths/throats due to injury

In a number of movies I have seen (mostly war movies, Jaws, etc), when someone has an injury to their torso, being anywhere from a shark bite, to a gunshot wound, their mouths fill with blood, and it seems to be filling their throat/lungs. Does this really happen when someone has an injury of this nature? If so, why? Is there a reason for this to happen? What causes the upward movement of blood? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.101.15.164 (talk) 22:05, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Well, yes and no. What you're seeing in movies is the actor expelling the contents of a blood pill or similar special effect that he's secreted in his mouth prior to shooting. That's what makes it look like a big mouthful of blood. What actually happens is a great deal messier/grosser. Blood should not be sitting within the G.I. tract or within the lungs, so the body will naturally try to get rid of it through coughing (if in the lungs, airway) or through vomiting (if enough gets into the stomach, esophagus). It tends to come up with all the usual bile, chyme, etc. that you associate with expelling stuff non-voluntarily from the mouth. Someone expelling blood in that kind of manner is someone who needs medical attention ASAP. Matt Deres (talk) 23:31, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

we have an article about coughing out blood, not much but it says that extensive injury might cause you cough/vomit blood. That blunt trauma to the chest can also cause you to cough blood out.[35]--Lenticel ^(talk) 01:17, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

And here's the one about vomiting blood.--Lenticel ^(talk) 01:19, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

A chest wound could cause injury such as a rib puncturing a lung, or a penetrating chest wound, resulting in frothy blood expelled through the nose and mouth. Either superficial or serious injuries to the head or throat could also result in coughing up blood or blood from the nose. If you merely bit your cheek you might spit out blood. Edison (talk) 04:34, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, the Reference Desk does not provide medical advice, please consult a medical practitioner, especially if you have been bitten by a shark and are bleeding profusely from the mouth. (sorry...couldn't resist) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.14.130.136 (talk) 17:50, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

July 15

Left and right contact lenses.

I have gas-permeable lenses, and I need to know which lens is the left one, and which is the right. I know that a lot of GP lenses are colored, so as to be able to tell the difference between the 2, but I've forgotten which one is which. One is blue, and one is green. 204.113.200.218 (talk) 01:22, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

Have you tried calling the ones who sold you the lenses? They might have a record of it. Another obvious way might be to simply try them both ways, and see which way is clearer. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 02:13, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

Have you ever been photographed while wearing the different coloured lenses? Cuddlyable3 (talk) 13:34, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

Do you know the manufacturer? If so, can you check their website to see if they have a standard for color associated with left or right. It would make sense to assign blue to left and green to right (four letters versus five letters), but I don't know if they made that sensible decision.--SPhilbrickT 15:11, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

The lenses are colored, or the lens case? My lens case is green for the right eye and white for the left. Green, starboard, is how I remember. Plasticup ^T/C 15:41, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

I don't wear contacts, but oddly enough, I remember the port/starboard thing in the same way. It should make sense to use the mnemonic of port = left (and = blue for lenses, I guess) because they all have four letters (helpfully, including blue), but instead I remember that starboard and right are both the "long" words, as compared to port/left. The fact that green is also longer than blue gives me this deliciously warm feeling that all is right in the world... Matt Deres (talk) 16:17, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

Arrow missile range

User Flayer have cited this [36] source to provide evidence for the 90 km range of the Arrow 2 missile. However, this source has not been dated and have no relevance for the Arrow 3 missile. During my discussion with him, Flayer told me that the sources I provided to indicate a range of more than 1000 km range [37][38][39] for the existing Arrow missile are not valuable or reliable us the source he provided and hence he deleted my edit on the Arrow 2 box (and it doesnt matter whether the box is of Arrow 1or 2 or 3, as long as the article is about the all Arrow "family" the box title can be changed-the issues are what source is more reliable and if my sources can be accounted)-so please tell me what is your opinion. Is this is the right place for references entimation?--Gilisa (talk) 12:12, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

Al Jazeera is a major news network so ought to be reliable. Regarding your second reference, you could cite Reuters directly [40]. Your sources seem reliable enough, but don't specifically state that they refer to model No. 3. Nevertheless, since they do make clear that they're talking about something more recent than Arrow II, I would have thought that would be okay.

It seems the only issue is whether you're talking about Arrow 2 or Arrow 3. Can't you put both and state which range applies to which model? A simple carriage return between entries will allow both to go in the same box. AlmostReadytoFly (talk) 12:52, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

PS: It's better to discuss this on the article talk page though. AlmostReadytoFly (talk) 12:56, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

It's a bit problematic to put both models in one text box because as you wrote the sources give no indication to which model the range apply. However there are reliable sources in Hebrew for that (but again, another procedure to start). I will further address the issue on the article talk page.--Gilisa (talk) 13:47, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

Your sources don't say that an Arrow missile has a range of 1000 km. They say that it is tested against a missile with a range of 1000 km. This is consistent with the Federation of American Scientists (often one of the best sources, experts at filtering through the military PR and coming to some kind of settled view about the secret capabilities of weapons systems) page on Arrow here; for Arrow 2 they say it "can detect and track incoming missiles as far way as 500 km and can intercept missiles 50-90 km away". With that distinction in mind, your and Flayer's sources tell a consistent story - the upgraded Arrow 3 can detect targets at roughly 1000 km, and kill them at about 90km. That's entirely consistent with its role as a theater missile defense system; an ABM with a kill range of 1000 km would only be useful against ICBMs fired virtually from the other side of the world; hardly a theatre defense, and of no use to a country like Israel that is worried about its neighbours not a power several thousand of miles away. 87.114.25.180 (talk) 13:18, 15 July 2009

First, you have to identify yourself. Second at one of the sources (El Jazira) it is quaoted that "he test site will allow Israel to measure its Arrow interceptor missile system against a target at a range of more than 1,000km". You have to read the sources before commenting on them. And again, identify yourself otherwise your opinion will not be regarded. Finally, the source you just gave is not dated-the Federation of American Scientists is good as a source as long as you have date on the article-one reason for it is that this reaserch organiztion allways updating its data. BTW, other sources also tell that this Arrow model has a range of more than 1000 km, it's a matter of simple comprehension to get it from the text what more that even Arrow 2 dealed with missiles that have a range far greater than 1000 km as the Sheab 3 --Gilisa (talk) 13:43, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

Gilisa - in answer to your original question - no, this is not the right place to ask for opinions on the evaluation or interpretation of sources. The right places for this discussion are (1) the article talk page (as pointed out above) or (2) the Reliable Sources Noticeboard. Please don't bring content disputes to the reference desks. Gandalf61 (talk) 13:53, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the link.--Gilisa (talk) 13:58, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

Gilisa, surely everyone is welcome at Wikipedia? There are numerous valid reasons someone may not want to sign up to an account, we shouldn't ignore valid opinions because of this. If the poster's argument is wrong, then it should be disregarded, but not because he/she chooses to post as an IP. Prokhorovka (talk) 14:19, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

It's accepted in Wiki that one would sign his/her name when participating in public discussion. It also have a reason you know, someone may more easily replu on the behalf of his/her own opinion while giving the impression that his/her argument represent more than just him/her. So again, when it comes to disagreements I expect users to sign their name.--Gilisa (talk) 14:30, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

What the fuck are you talking about? Everyone above you has signed their posts, and even if they hadn't sinebot would come along and add a little signature tag after the post. You can also find who made what post in the history tab. I think you need to read WP:Signature.

It's also accepted in Wiki that people may edit from IP accounts, and signing from one of these is still signing. AlmostReadytoFly (talk) 15:16, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

Well if people on wikipedia are basing quality of arguement on volume of agreement they are being daft. Volume of agrement is a poor indicator of truthlessness...for example...A shockingly large number of half-wits think Princess Diana was murdered, think the Moon landings didn't take place, think September 11 2001 was planned etc. Objective assessment of evidence is what is important, not volume of people proposing said evidence is correct. 194.221.133.226 (talk) 14:44, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

Well, it's obvious, but unfortunately it's much harder for facts to be heard when there are too many who object to them-and it's valid for Wikipedia as well.--Gilisa (talk) 15:08, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

Please find another forum for this discussion; this is the reference desk, not the relevant article's talk page. IPs have as much right to an opinion as named accounts. For what it's worth, mainstream news agencies frequently confuse this sort of technical distinction, and I have grave doubts about the veracity of the 1000 km range. Acroterion _(talk) 15:22, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

OK--Gilisa (talk) 15:53, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

creative way to motivate people

please think of creative ways to say things that help motivate people to protect the environment. Can you please provide some expression of ideas or wordings that can promote environment activities? You know, how we say motivating things that give people the urge to act? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.0.5.211 (talk) 17:03, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

Don't mess with Texas. --Sean 17:29, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

Fear is a great motivator lol. But seriously, things like money are always good motivators. And if people feel loyal to something, like a business or company they will always try harder than if they hate their job. So promoting a good atmosphere, like being friendly and chill is good too. May I also add that your ip address is very unusual, at least I've never seen one in the 1xx range before.

I think one of the stumbling blocks to motivate people to help the environment is the whole tragedy of the commons principal. This is a complex form of the prisoners dilemma whereby if everyone works together, everyone is better off, but each has a built in individual advantage over the others if they don't play ball. Whatever method for motivation will have to consider how to address this. Googlemeister (talk) 18:48, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

I guess that by 'the environment' you are probably talking about modern issues concerning 'the planet', but your question made me think of those old wartime posters that had everyone joining in with helping out. There was one encouraging people to save fuel by sharing rides in cars and it had a bloke driving in his car next to a spectre of Hitler and read "When You Ride Alone You Ride With Hitler!". Loads of then where about saving food for the winter, growing your own vegetables, etc. One just read "Eat Less Bread!". Just google wartime posters or similar and see some. Popcorn II (talk) 19:16, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

"OMG! WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE!"...well, that might be a little over-the-top. But everything depends on your target audience. If these are people who are already aware that there is a major problem - then your work is to combat apathy and the hope that someone else will fix it - you need to work up enthusiasm and a feeling that they can "make a difference". But if these are people who are either unaware or disbelieving in the fact that there is a problem at all - then you need a more educational approach. SteveBaker (talk) 22:25, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

Apart from apathy and disbelief/ignorance you'll also have to fight fatigue and frustration. Media hype, scam artists, well intended political efforts and shifting environmental foci are to blame. Yesteryear's "save the planet" idea all too often turns into this year's bad idea. Scientist often battle over results and some factors taken for granted in the beginning tend to not pan out after a while. Many people have hopped onto one too many bandwagons labeled let's just do something. Make sure the actions you propose include the big picture (Energy balance, Carbon footprint, water use, resources etc.). Carefully check for studies criticizing the effects. My personal favorite would be building a trash monster, then suggest viable ideas for avoiding trash and building another one after those have been applied. Try to not get too far out with your suggestions or you'll be left with only the hard-core crowd that won't need motivating anyhow.71.236.26.74 (talk) 00:11, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

The problem is that the real problems aren't going to be solved by a bunch of people getting together on one Saturday morning two or three times a year to pick up trash from the local park or whatever makes them feel good about themselves. That's not just unproductive - it also leaves people with the feeling that they've "done the right thing" - which may lead them to feel OK about failing to attack the "big picture" problems because "they've already made a sacrifice". Well, it's not like that. There is absolutely NOTHING you can do in short spurts like that that'll help the problem one little bit! The real solutions require longer-term behavioral changes. Buying more efficient appliances, better insulated homes, smaller cars, CFL's, etc. Living closer to where you work, using public transport where you can, recycling and composting as a matter of habit, avoiding over-packaged products, buying things that are made locally rather than shipped halfway around the planet, not having lawns that need watering, voting for politicians who are prepared to enact the necessary tough legislation, looking into the way things happen at work and actively seeking to save energy and cut waste in the workplace. It's only these long-term changes that really make a difference.

So here are some of the things I've done:

• My all-electric house has foot-thick walls, reflective window glass, and things like automatic attic ventilation. I designed it with windows on the corners of the house to allow light in while minimising heating from sunlight - my electricity bill is less than half that of my neighbors. These energy-efficiency measures paid for themselves in about 5 years.
• The house is in dense woodland - I have no lawns and do no watering or yard work of any kind (gas powered garden tools are HORRIBLY polluting and energy-wasting) - the trees help to shade the house in summer and trap heat in the winter and wildlife abounds in the area. My water usage is way lower than the average house in my area - but I think we could still do better with things like on-demand flash-heaters for showers and bathroom sinks and 'grey-water' recycling from showers and baths used to flush toilets.
• My car gets a solid 42mpg (US gallons)...that's what it actually ACHIEVES in daily driving...not what the manufacturer claims. Most cars that claim to be fuel-efficient claim 35mpg and actually achieve about 25mpg. Most hybrids don't come close to the mpg they claim.
• My recycling and composting efforts - and a refusal to buy over-packaged products where possible - mean that I produce only about half a trash-can of trash per week. My neighbors seem to produce one or two trash-can-fulls TWICE a week. If everyone did this right, we'd need one trash pickup every two weeks instead of two pickups per week!
• I have no incandescent lamps left in my home (well - except in the fridge and cooker hood) - and I'm gradually transitioning to LED lights (although the price is kinda steep!).
• At work, we lobbied management to install a computer controlled air conditioner/heater controller that turns off the A/C (except in the server room) and turns the room lights off at night and at the weekends. If you want to work late or come in over the weekend, you just phone or send an email to the computer giving the start and end times that you'll be working - and it'll make sure the place is cool while you're there and allow you to turn the lights on and off manually during that time. This costs $15,000 and saves $15 an hour in electricity at night and during the weekend...do the math...why doesn't every company on the planet use one of these?

These are not things that everyone can do immediately - but when you have the opportunity to do the right thing (eg when you next buy a refrigerator or a light bulb or a car or house) then these things should be uppermost in your mind. None of these things required an sacrifice on my part - my house is more comfortable and quiet because of the insulation - I save money on electricity and gasoline - my car is small but it'll go 140mph and accellerate fast enough to blow away most muscle cars. I love having no yard work to do - and the woodland is simply gorgeous to live in. Once you are geared up to do it (and providing your local city services are geared up to support it), recycling is painless.

SteveBaker (talk) 08:35, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

Recycling is not quite as uncontroversial as it used to be. It has come under some fire because it uses mains water. That takes quite a bit of energy to produce (Not just the H2O but also the additives). Somehow they found that that hadn't figured in the calculations until water became a scarce commodity in some places (e.g. Atlanta had a drought last year). All of a sudden the life-cycle comparison didn't look that rosy anymore. The fact that the local recycling effort asks participants to rinse their trash (and people use warm tap water to do so) has turned a lot of former supporters against it. Somehow the revised energy figures and seeing their $$$ landscaping wither due to water rationing while the trash can/should get washed put a significant damper on things. Avoiding trash is a lot less likely to be subject to changing tides and for lots of products choosing alternatives with less packaging is no hardship. Composting takes some skill and real-estate. Willingness doesn't always match ability and opportunity. (Some incinerator facilities are actually complaining that the trash mix supplied by ecologically minded citizens doesn't contain enough combustible materials to keep their furnace at an optimal temperature :-) On turning off the A/C there seem to be two conflicting schools of thought both of which provide plausible calculations and examples. I think it depends a lot on the building. One opinion holds that it takes much more energy to cool/heat the building back to a certain base temperature and turning off the AC/heating only makes sense for a period of a week or more. Others say that even overnight and on weekends the difference ends up in savings. (OR we are still waiting for the "30% energy savings" our new AC/furnace was supposed to provide. We think that figure was based on heavy use by a large family. We just never used that much to begin with, so the savings are minimal.) Our new roof has a Ridge vent which is said to save vs. the attic fan we used to have. (Comparison data is unfortunately not available. Our fan never worked properly.) I have replaced part of our landscaping with fruit and vegetables. That saves a bit of energy/money/CO2 vs. supermarket produce. I don't put any effort in it except for throwing in some seeds, throwing some nets and harvesting. (I don't like gardening, my plants look a bit more ratty than in gardening catalogs, but the fruit an veggies are just as good as from a meticulously maintained yard. Even the critters like them, hence the nets.) There are lots of things one can do that actually work and won't get blown out of the water by the next report. It's just as easy to put a lot of effort in to things that don't work. 71.236.26.74 (talk) 10:11, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

Nazi in solitary confinementfor 40 years after war

I recall some nazi being put in a a prison with no other inmates, only him, in solitary confinement for 40 years after World War II. I can't remember his name,anyone know who it was? 92.251.255.18 (talk) 20:06, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

Probably Rudolf Hess. DuncanHill (talk) 20:09, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

Ah yes that's it thanks. 92.251.255.18 (talk) 20:17, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

Yep. He had Spandau all to himself for twenty years. That's about as solitary as confinement can get. PhGustaf (talk) 20:22, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

Eventually, he was found "mysteriously" strangled to death. Edison (talk) 01:56, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

Shortly after the Soviet's agreed he should be released, if I recall. Although, he was completely batty by that time. Plasticup ^T/C 12:43, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

Forced labor

When people are sentenced to "hard labor", what sort of labor do they actually do? What sort of labor will Euna Lee and Laura Ling be doing for the next twelve years? Do they produce or build anything? Or is it purely meaningless punishment, such as digging holes and then filling them back up? Mike R (talk) 22:28, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

See Penal labour for a little info. Hopefully someone will be able to provide more info beyond this. ny156uk (talk) 22:47, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

Neil Hanson's fine book The Custom of the Sea describes "hard labor" in 19th-century England. (The "Custom of the Sea" includes a protocol concerning who eats whom when several are starving in a lifeboat.) One of the labors was, indeed, moving a pile of rocks from one end of a room to the other one, and then moving them back. Over and over, all day. No idea what they do today in Korea. PhGustaf (talk) 22:52, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

France or some such country had a neat gadget consisting of a metal drum full of gravel which had to be turned a given number of times per day. Satisfies me as better defined than "breaking large rocks into small rocks." Edison (talk) 01:55, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

See Laogai for practices in China. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 02:53, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

I asked this question last month. Dismas|^(talk) 03:44, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

In Texas prison labor sometimes includes filling in potholes. Since such road repairs rarely survived the next rainy season they keep having to fill them up again. They let mother nature do the digging up. In between drivers appreciate not breaking their axle (or Steve Baker being able to park his mini :-) in the holes. Work condition for prison labor in China is usually described as grueling. 71.236.26.74 (talk) 04:06, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

There does seem to be two schools of thought here...and as a result, standards may vary around the world.

• One idea is that the labor should not only be physically exhausting - but also pointless and soul-destroying. Breaking up rocks with hammers was a classic one in the USA for a long time. There was machinery that could do that work far more cheaply and easily!
• But the other view is that you can get prisoners to 'repay the cost to society' by doing harsh jobs that other people won't do. In Texas, maintaining roads and ditches seems to be a popular one...and lest you think that this isn't such a terrible punishment...just try doing that in 105 degrees and 50% humidity (which is what we've been subjected to here in Austin recently).

Working in a license plate factory would be a more typical prison job in the US.

SteveBaker (talk) 07:46, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

In North Korea, where Euna Lee and Laura Ling were sentenced, the labour camps are notorious. Here's one media report on the conditions. The work is described as in "mining, logging, farming and industrial enterprises". AlmostReadytoFly (talk) 08:54, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

Historically, see treadwheel. Gandalf61 (talk) 09:17, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

July 16

AP courses

Is it true that if you take enough of them, and go to the right college, that you can skip a year or two of college? --Freiberg, Let's talk!, contribs 02:26, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

Generally, no. Selective colleges, such as the U.S Ivys, do not care what you did in high school. They demand four years of exorbitant tuition paymnts. You might get to take advanced courses instead of introductory courses. At a lesser college, you might get to save college tuition. Edison (talk) 02:49, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

Actually, generally yes they do. Most schools offer credit for high scores on the AP exams (usually 4's or 5's; sometimes only 5's). Not just higher placement in a course sequence, but actual credit towards a degree. You should check with the admissions office of the schools you are interested in attending; but the OP is right. With the right combination of AP exams, depending on your major, you may enter college with enough credits to qualify as a second-year student. --Jayron32.talk.say no to drama 02:58, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

At Harvard, for example, AP scores can allow "eligible students to graduate from Harvard College after only six or seven terms of enrollment in the College or, if accepted, to enroll for their fourth year in one of the master’s degree programs."[41] I personally received course credit (at a slightly less prestigious state school) for my AP scores in Physics and Calculus. It would take a very motivated and smart high school student to get enough high AP scores to skip a whole year, but it's definitely doable for most colleges. —D. Monack ^talk 03:08, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

Bullshit on the claims that US Ivys allow you to graduate early with high scores on APs, per recent experience of a family member. They will do anything to get the 4 years tuition payments. Edison (talk) 03:15, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

Well, There are 4100+ colleges in the U.S., and 8 Ivy League schools. Your family's anecdotal experience at a single one of these Ivy League schools notwithstanding, AP exams do get you credit at nearly all U.S. colleges. --Jayron32.talk.say no to drama 03:41, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

Thanks to AP courses, I had enough credits to enter college (a state university) as a sophomore and wound up graduating in 3.5 years. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 03:51, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

I can vouch that Princeton also allows students to graduate in 7 or 6 semesters if they have enough AP credits (4 and 8 respectively, although I don't remember what the required minimum score is). See the "Advanced Placement" and "Advanced Standing" sections here [42]. I don't think many people do this even if they qualify, since it makes it much harder to fit in all your major requirements and still take other classes that might interest you, but I do have a friend who graduated in 3 years. Rckrone (talk) 06:21, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

My son (who is at UT Dallas) will be able to graduate a year early as a result of AP courses he did in high school. (He actually graduated high school a year early - so he'll be done with his degree TWO years early!) However, he's having to pick up some community college courses during the summer vacation - which don't count for credit hours but do allow him to gain the prerequisites needed in order to take some of the more advanced courses that he needs for graduation. So, yes, it's definitely possible in at least ONE college! However, that's certainly a question you'd want to ask the college before enrollment/admission. My kid went to one of the best high schools in the USA - and it's possible that AP credits from that school are somehow "more valuable" than those from other high schools - but I kinda doubt that. So check with the college - they are usually very approachable when it comes to questions like that. SteveBaker (talk) 07:36, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

As of last year, Yale University didn't give you course credit for APs. Good scores (5's) can let you skip introductory courses, but that just means you take more higher level classes. Presumably that hasn't changed. However, most schools do give you course credit, and (with enough AP credit) will let you out in 3 years. Plasticup ^T/C 12:37, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

Facebook and Twitter updates

Social networking websites are a minefield. I've heard that it is bad form for your Facebook and Twitter updates to mirror each other, but why? And if it is indeed advisable to make them distinct from one another, what kind of content best suits each one? --Richardrj ^{talk email} 09:37, 16 July 2009 (UTC)