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June 7

Nguni Use of space and acquisition of territory in the nineteenth century

Does anyone know about the way migrating Nguni (especially Zwangendaba) conceived of space and used territories in the nineteenth century southern Africa. Possible answers might refer to ways of territorial acquisition, the meaning of public and private space, etc. References will be well appreciated. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ndzesop (talkcontribs) 00:48, 7 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Why should I keep my father's surname if I change my name to a Arabic/Muslim name?

I was thinking about changing my name to Abdullah Muhammad Ahmad. I'm using Abdullah Muhammad Ahmad as my pseudonym. But some other Muslims say I can't drop my surname (change it). It's orthodox to retain the surname but unorthodox to replace it. I rather go with the unorthodox way because it too have to say to some people, uncommon, and adoption of religion/culture purposes. I have a long last name with 10 letters. Writing and spelling is like this: C*o*a*a*d*. I may want to adopt a Arabic/Muslim because I'm Muslim and Arabic is important in my religion. My family is from Thailand where one one family can use a given last name so the last name I'm having is too long. I'm the only Muslim in my family. My family are all Buddhists. I would like the family to adopt a new last name (surname) since we may have that surname that is too long. My future family will be "Muslim". This is like Arabization to my family because of the Arabic/Muslim surname. Should I keep my surname or I have choice to change it? Note: I am not asking for legal advice. I just want simple answers. (talk) 05:14, 7 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I doubt there is a factual answer for your question. Changing your name appears to be a matter of personal preference based on, in your case, religion, culture and family. Whichever you choose is a statement to your family and others of what is most important to you. Before you decide, you might consider that your children may have the same options, both in choosing a religion and in choosing a name. What you do now may set a standard for what you expect of them and for what your actions establish as permission for their choices. ៛ Bielle (talk) 06:30, 7 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
After a recent court case in California, the husband can take the wife's surname there. If you are unmarried and plan to marry someone with an Arabic surname there, that'd work. User:Krator (t c) 07:09, 7 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Why is a ten-letter name too long? What's wrong with "Washington" and "Eisenhower"? If your name was Pichaironnarongsongkram, I'd sympathize. Surnames are a recent invention. In the Islamic Golden Age Muslims did not have surnames, and a notion that changing one's surname goes against orthodox Islamic teaching must be based on a misunderstanding.  --Lambiam 07:43, 7 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Absentee ballot

I'm going to be at school in NC during the election this november but since I'm a CT resident and I'm (about to be) registered in CT I won't be able to vote there. I know I would need to do an Absentee ballot, but I have no idea how to do something like that and could use some instructions if someone has them. Thanks :). Chris M. (talk) 06:13, 7 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

This webpage of the Secretary of State of Connecticut contains information about absentee ballots, including links to application forms. A phone number you can call for information is 1-800 540-3764.[1]  --Lambiam 07:54, 7 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you. Chris M. (talk) 17:34, 7 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

For everyone else, try http://www.votefromabroad.org/. The website provides an enormous amount of information about where to write to get a ballot, where to send it, etc. VOTE, people!DOR (HK) (talk) 02:58, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Stock exchange and share things

I just turned 18 and I really wanna start putting small amounts of money on the stock market and turning it into large amounts :P. How do I go about buying shares firstly and which shares are the best ones to buy?

First of all, try reading the Efficient market hypothesis article. This suggests that it is practically impossible to predict or forecast the market or individual shares - or else (I think) you need a PhD in maths or statistics to do so after a lot of research. So if you want to invest, choosing shares at random is as good a method as any, or you need very high levels of skill, experience, or luck. In other words, it is practically impossible to know which shares are the best ones to buy. But apart from that, buying a set amount of shares every month would probably suit you - I do not know what specific investment products are available. Of course, investment businesses of various kinds spend a lot of advertising money trying to convince people that the EMH is not true.
On the other hand, there are some market anomalies (a too brief article - see http://www.investorhome.com/anomaly.htm instead) which could be exploited perhaps. High yield is another one. 80.2.197.210 (talk) 11:05, 7 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

As for "How do I go about buying shares", you have to go through a stock broker, who will collect a fee for every time you buy or sell shares. Different brokers deal with different kinds of customers and you would need advice appropriate to the country where you live. --Anonymous, 09:21 UTC, June 8, 2008.

Regarding "which shares are the best ones to buy?", I wouldn't tell you if I knew but I would recommend reading anything Warren Buffet has written that you can get your hands on. Warren Buffett#Writings seems like a good place to start. He's a very strong proponent of value investing, for example.
By the way, if capital markets were efficient, how would you explain Buffet's success? Research has shown (and Buffet agrees) that the weak-form hypothesis is likely true so that rules out the Maths/Stats PhD thing. There's no conclusive evidence regarding the other forms of the hypothesis. Zain Ebrahim (talk) 12:41, 8 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
"how would you explain Buffet's success?" - even if a large number of people make investment decisions purely at random, one of them will be more successful than the rest. 80.0.104.234 (talk) 23:06, 8 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
My word! Do you actually believe that the richest man in world "just got lucky"? And I suppose you would claim that this company's exceptional growth over 40 years was luck too. Yes, the chances that at least one investor out of a thousand will get lucky are quite high. But what would be the probability that one of those investors will continuously get lucky over many decades? Zain Ebrahim (talk) 09:49, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Do you believe that oldest person in the world "just got lucky" ? If one tiny thing had been different in their life, they could have died decades ago. Actually, its a plausible hypothesis - we assume that the successful have some secret formula, forgetting that there always has to be someone at the far end of the bell curve - see survivor bias. Gandalf61 (talk) 10:55, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
That's a specious analogy: if the oldest person in the world "made a mistake", it's over but if Buffet makes a mistake on the capital market, he can cut his losses and learn from that mistake and end up better off for it. Also, survival analysis studies have found significant relationships between lifestyle, culture, diet etc and mortality rates. So it would be possible to find very old people who weren't lucky but happened to have the appropriate values for the relevant variables.
There is no conclusive evidence whatsoever indicating that equity and debt markets are semi-strong-form efficient. Some event studies are non-conclusive but these don't really test for fundamental analysis. The other event studies have found evidence that excess abnormal returns can be earned after certain "event"-type information is released. The rest of the studies testing for semi-strong-form efficiency look at the predictability of future rates of return using available public information. The outcome from the majority of these studies are vastly against the EMH.
The simple fact is that most investors don't have the resources/expertise to go through 200 page annual/interim/quaterly reports, SEC filings, newspapers and periodicals and sift out the relevant bits. Why is it so hard to believe that some people can? And I don't see how the existence of losers and survivorship bias necessarily implies that fundamental analysis doesn't work. It does. There is no evidence which concludes that it doesn't but there are several counterexamples to the hypothesis that it can't.
We don't subject other talented people to the same treatment by calling theories that they're just lucky plausible, why do we do so to this one? Zain Ebrahim (talk) 13:58, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Getting to the OP's first question: The most common way to buy stocks is through a broker. They typically will charge you for each stock purchase. Discount brokers as the name suggests charge lower fees but don't offer personalized advice. Other options include: dividend reinvestment plans (DRIPs) and stock mutual funds. DRIPs are free but your choices are limited. Mutual funds are usually free to purchase if you go directly to the mutual fund company and can provide instant diversification but they include management fees of about 1% of your investment annually which eats into your returns a bit. All this advice is from my perspective as a U.S. investor. Don't know where you are, so the details may differ. --D. Monack | talk 00:09, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Formula for price and sales graph line

Generally (with some exceptions) lower prices mean more goods are sold, higher prices mean less sales. If price and sales is plotted on a graph (which may be "chart" in American English), its probably going to be a curve of some sort. Has anyone actually worked out a formula that relates price to number of sales? Yes, I anticipate you may point out that the sales volume depends on many other things apart from price, and it may be difficult to determine the relationship even under experimental conditions. 80.2.197.210 (talk) 10:56, 7 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

This is a basic homework question in economics. See supply and demand for plenty of information on the interaction between price and demand. -- kainaw 15:06, 7 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
It is an actual mathematical formula I am after please, preferably one obtained empricably. If its so basic, please be so kind as to tell me such a formula. 80.2.207.208 (talk) 16:08, 7 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Apparently I wasn't clear enough... There is no formula. The creation of a formula is a common homework question. You are given a bunch of price/demand/supply values and asked to draw the graph for that specific instance. Since it is a completely different graph for any product at any point in time, you have a different formula. If, by chance, you happened to read supply and demand, you would easily see how there are common types of graphs/formulas for certain types of products. -- kainaw 16:13, 7 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I did look at the article and also the demand curve article. Cannot see any formula. It is a formula I am after. I have studied economics among other related subjects for a number of years, by the way - I won't dazzle you with my qualifications. In all the decades that economics has been discussed, it seems likely that somebody at least has tried to do an empirical determination of the formula for such a curve - that is what I am after. 80.2.207.208 (talk) 16:21, 7 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
There is no formula. Within limited price range fluctuations, reasonable fits can sometimes be obtained by a formula of the form Demand = C × Price−E, in which C and E are positive constants. (E for Elasticity.) However, for most commodities there are usually sizable fluctuations in demand all the time even when the price remains fixed, which makes any empirical construction of a formula precarious and of dubious value. A slump in sales after a price raise is often temporary. Demand may even increase when the price is raised because the consumer is inclined to ascribe higher quality to higher-priced goods.  --Lambiam 17:16, 7 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
There is no formula, and yet there is a formula. That's very Zen. Anyone know of any papers that have tried to study the price/demand curve empirically please? (And so, as many other people have noted, the whole edifice of economics is not based on any empirical basis). 80.0.100.139 (talk) 19:58, 7 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
This is getting to the point of childish stubbornness. There is not universal formula. There simply isn't. If you absolutely must have one, how about price = demand / supply. Of course, that won't work in any real case, but it is a formula. I already pointed out that the creation of a formula is a common homework/test question. If you took economics, then you've done this. You are given price/demand/supply data and asked to create a "best-fit" curve. That curve can be represented as a formula. However, that formula/curve is only valid for that single set of data. It is absolutely useless for any other economic case. I simply do not know how to make this any clearer - especially to someone who claims to know economics. -- kainaw 20:51, 8 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
"That curve can be represented as a formula." Could anyone point me to any real-life data for such a curve please? Thanks. 80.0.104.234 (talk) 23:14, 8 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I'll try again to make this as painfully simple as possible. Consider the historical cost of oil: 2000=$33.39, 2001=$27.29, 2002=$26.61, 2003=$31.62, 2004=$41.84, 2005=$53.77, 2006=$60.73, 2007=$64.92. Supply of oil is very steady (because of OPEC) and demand has increased steadily every year since the 40's. So, in this basic economics homework question, you are asked to plot the cost per year. Consider X to be the year and Y to be the cost. You get out your graph paper and mark the years, 2000, 2001, 2002... across the X axis. The low cost is $26.61. The high cost is #64.92. So, you mark 26, 27, 28, 29... all the way to 65 up the Y axis. They, you plot each point (X=2000, Y=33.39), (X=2001, Y=27.79)... Now, you can see that there are two curves. This is obviously a Y=AX3+BX2+CX+D formula. So, you use your "best fit" curve methods to come up with a formula. You have many plot points to work with. For example 33.39=A*20003+B*20002+C*2000+D. Depending on the method you are asked to use, your formula will have different values for A, B, C, and D - and no values will likely produce the exact values from the plot points. That is why it is called a "best fit", not a "perfect fit". -- kainaw 23:58, 8 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Demand is usually described as a point-in-time measure of quantity demanded as a function of price, not price as a function of time. Zain Ebrahim (talk) 09:28, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Not "based on any empirical basis"? A quick google search will lead you to (I'm not kidding) hundreds of thousands of journal articles involving empirically testing economic theory. To find the formula relating price and quantity demanded for a specific data set, you start with price and quantity sold (as quantity demanded is not known until *after* you have the formula) and factors other than price that are relevant to demand and supply (e.g., consumer income). Then apply the two stage least squares procudure. This will give you an estimate of the demand function. Wikiant (talk) 11:04, 8 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Ask I asked above, could anyone point me to real-life data for such a curve please? And could anyone point me to any papers that have empiricably investigated such a curve with quantitative results please? Thanks. 80.0.104.234 (talk) 23:14, 8 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Simple. Go to your library and pick up any textbook on economics that you can find. Inside, you will find a section on supply/demand and historical prices. Look in the index for "best fit" and you'll find a section on attempting to fit formulas to real-world data. -- kainaw 23:58, 8 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
To the OP: have you even thought about perhaps considering Wikiant's advice? Regarding your "new" question, if you find Kainaw's suggestion beneath you, you should know that the Refdesk doesn't do the OPs' work for them. Especially the ungrateful ones. Zain Ebrahim (talk) 09:34, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Meta-themes of making money

I'm wondering if it is possible to list all the possible ways of making money. In the abstract rather than specific cases. For example money can be made by 1) putting two or more things together to create something with a value greater than the sum of the value of the parts, 2) buying something now which has a higher value in the future, 3).....? What other themes of making money are there please? Buying a lottery ticket might be another. 80.2.197.210 (talk) 11:40, 7 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Don't forget about the value of labor itself. Give me a piece of wood, and it's worthless. If I apply some labor to the wood (carve it into a little statue), suddenly I can charge for it. --98.217.8.46 (talk) 14:29, 7 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
This would be covered by 1) above, as you are putting wood and labour together. 80.2.207.208 (talk) 16:02, 7 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
And don't forget about intellectual property. By carving that wood in a statue of Mickey Mouse it enters into a whole other regime where the labor and the materials are not the only salient aspects to its cost. Personally I don't think there's an easy way to parse out all of the "ways of making money". There are different ways to talk about value itself, which is probably more worthwhile. I think someone has tried that before, though. --98.217.8.46 (talk) 14:30, 7 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
If Das Kapital does provide such a list (which I rather doubt), please could someone point out where it can be found. Thanks. 80.2.207.208 (talk) 16:11, 7 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I assume that it can be reduced to two possibilities:
  1. Take money (or something of value that may be sold for money). For example, stealing.
  2. Make the appearance of value and exchange it for money.
The first one is obvious. If you steal something, you can get money - especially if you steal money. The second isn't so obvious. In selling objects, the appearance of value is the object itself. In the labor example above, the labor is the appearance of value. In entertainment, the movie, game, show... is the appearance of value. Even in something like a telephone scam, the scam is the appearance of value that generates money. I just thought of counterfeiting. In that case, the fake money is the appearance of value that is traded either for money or something that may be sold for money. -- kainaw 15:04, 7 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

OK, so 3) could be "steal it". But neither of the two comments above include 2), suggesting that there may be other themes also. 80.2.207.208 (talk) 16:15, 7 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

(N+1). Begging.
(N+2). Extortion.
(N+3). Finding lost coins (e.g. under slot machines or in the beach sand).
(N+4). Insider trading.
(N+5). Bounty hunting.
(N+6). Marrying old rich people.
 --Lambiam 17:27, 7 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. I think begging and marrying old people could be 4) being given money by sympathy or affection; extortion would be 3) stealing it; insider trading would be mostly 2) and in the past was not illegal. Finding lost coins and bounty hunting (is that getting a reward for capturing criminals?) is interesting - could be 5) searching for lost assets. This reminds me of Vladimir Propp's (sp?) narrative morphology. 80.0.100.139 (talk) 20:17, 7 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Extortion, while illegal, is not theft. In theft the criminal takes the money or property, possibly without the victim's knowledge, and definitely without their consent. In extortion, the victim gives the money or property. In the case of young people marrying much older people, there is a plausible possibility that at some future time they will inherit their spouse's wealth and become rich (as for the late Vickie Lynn Marshall, née Hogan). This then is the effect of the laws regulating inheritance, and no sympathy or affection is involved in the eventual transfer of property. In insider trading, the criminal buys below value; because of the use of inside knowledge, the buyer knows that the shares bought are actually worth more than the seller knows at trading time. The later increase of value on the market is real, but intrinsically the shares did already have the higher value at trading time, and thus this cannot be categorized as an instance of "making the appearance of value".  --Lambiam 10:45, 8 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I think the OP was referring to his/her number 2 (not Kainaw's). <nitpick>Selling above value on material non-public information also constitutes insider trading.</nitpick> Zain Ebrahim (talk) 12:09, 8 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
In most of the cases mentioned, they fall under the number 2 I mentioned. In begging, a person offers a social value in exchange for money (the person exchanges money either to feel better about themselves or to get the bum to go away - both are valuable). In extortion, the value that the money is exchanged for is the peace of not being hurt, having your place burned, being framed for some crime... Bounty hunting is simple. Some law enforcement finds value in catching criminals and is willing to pay. In marrying old rich people, the companionship is the value exchanged. It all comes down to exchanging value for money.
There are two cases mentioned that don't fit this. Insider trading is not a unique way to make money. Buying/selling stocks is the money making method. Insider trading simply increases the money made due to knowledge of the stock values in the future. If you sell that knowledge to someone else, the knowledge is the value that is exchanged for money. Finding lost coins equates to the first point I used - taking money. You can find coins all day and not make any money if you don't take them. -- kainaw 20:46, 8 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I don't agree that trading (inside or otherwise) stocks is selling knowledge. Say you have a stock and are willing to sell it for $5 but I "know" it's worth $10 and I buy it from you for $5. I haven't sold knowledge to anyone (I just earned a profit off it).
Maybe if we changed "making money" to "creating wealth" then your two possibilities could be restated as:
  1. Take value. (Not necessarily illegal.)
  2. Make value (or the appearance thereof).
In either case the assumption is that the value may be exchanged for money. Now, insider trading falls under 1 because by buying the stock from you, I "took" $5 of value from you. Zain Ebrahim (talk) 21:02, 8 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I was covering both types of insider trading. When you use your own knowledge, you are still just buying/selling stocks. The possible increase in value of the stocks is the value that is being traded for money. The second type of insider trading is when the person with the inside knowledge does not do any stock trading. He or she sells the knowledge to someone else to do the trading. In that case, the knowledge is the value that is traded for money. -- kainaw 23:39, 8 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, selling knowledge is the same as selling anything else and would fall under 2. But when you're inside-trading you're not making the value (the value's already there - the "loser" just doesn't know it). You're taking it. Zain Ebrahim (talk) 07:35, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
It is my opinion that knowingly misrepresenting the value of something is not "taking" value. Pretty much all of real trade has to do with misrepresenting the value of something. In the housing market, the sellers misrepresent the value of the home to get more money. Automotive dealers misrepresent the value of their autos to make more money. The government misrepresents the value of politicians to take more taxes. The lottery misrepresents your chances of making winning even a single dollar to get more money. Restaurants misrepresent the value of the food to make more money. I don't consider it necessary to specially classify an inside trader who misrepresents the value of a stock. -- kainaw 12:06, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. "Successful" misrepresentation "makes" value. Insider trading isn't misrepresentation, it's merely buying at an inefficient price to earn an (unfair) profit. Zain Ebrahim (talk) 14:40, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The concept of money involves the (sometimes justifiable) expectation of someone getting more of something that is desirable, or avoiding more of something that is undesirable, all within the dynamics of learned human behaviors. Therefore, enumerating all the ways of "making money" is akin to enumerating all the ways two or more human beings can interact to create the perception of something worth buying or selling.
In case you are wondering, even in the abstract, this is an infinitely long list. Money itself is an abstraction whose primary tangible component is not physical currency, but rather the culturally-reinforced expectation of immediate harm that will result in not having any. If you're looking for "meta-themes" you may do well to ponder on why money is considered valuable at all. dr.ef.tymac (talk) 06:31, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Let's say you had a poster from a film that says "Copyright so-and-so Pictures, 1950." The U.S. Copyright Office renewal database the copyright for the film was renewed in 1978 or so. But it doesn't say anything about a renewal of the copyright on the poster itself. Are they one and the same, or is the poster is in the public domain? Is the poster necessarily a derivative work of the film, and thus covered by its copyright renewal? --98.217.8.46 (talk) 14:26, 7 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

That is an interesting question which asks for legal advice and therefore cannot be answered here. --Anon, 09:23 UTC, June 8, 2008.
You don't have a talk page so this has to go here. The OP's asking if the film's copyright renewal covers the poster. While I agree that he/she is unlikely to get a good answer here (or from anyone besides a professional), it's not a request for advice. If someone happens to know the appropriate legislation, they should link it. Zain Ebrahim (talk) 12:58, 8 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

spanish sailing ships of the 17th century

Did any spanish fleets sail from Spain to New Spain during the year 1640Thetreasurehunter (talk) 16:06, 7 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, but some of the treasure lost on their return voyage has already been plundered. A twenty ship Flota de Indias left Seville and made the crossing in 64 days. As far as i can tell, all twenty arrived safely in Veracruz June of 1640. On the return voyage in 1641 the fleet was struck by a hurricane and ten ships were lost, including 600 ton almiranta (vice admiral's ship) Nuestra Señora de la puria y limpia Concepción which carried somewhere between 35 and 140 tons of silver. In 1688 Captain William Phips recovered either 25 or 32 tons of silver from the wreck of Concepción, and in 1978 Burt Webber found a further 60,000 silver coins at the site.
Seville
There should have also been a galleon fleet from Seville to South America in the same year, but i cannot find any reference to one.—eric 02:47, 8 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
??? Seville isn't a port. Corvus cornixtalk 19:46, 8 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Not a port, but The Port. High tide carried the commerce of New Spain 54 miles up The Guadalquivir to the place Fernando de Herrera described as "not a city but a world."—eric 23:59, 8 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Here's a picture. Xn4 00:14, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Seville is still an active port with a shipyard. Richard Avery (talk) 12:29, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
How awesome. Thanks for enlightening me.  :) Corvus cornixtalk 16:24, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Vice President term limit

Can a person who has already served two terms as U.S.vice president serve as U.S.vice president again under another U.S.president? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.251.251.221 (talk) 16:16, 7 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yes. DAVID ŠENEK 16:52, 7 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Yes. However, if a person has already served two terms as as the President of the United States, he or she cannot be a running mate as a Vice President. Jtg920 (talk) 20:34, 7 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Jtg920, are you saying that someone who has served two terms as President cannot be elected Vice President, but can be appointed Vice President? DJ Clayworth (talk) 16:49, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure what is going on here, but only a screen or two higher on this page the answer given here is contradicted. The quote from the constitution is that "no-one who is constitutionally ineligible to serve as president can serve as vice president". DJ Clayworth (talk) 16:56, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Again, see 22nd Amendment#Interaction with the Twelfth Amendment. Oh, it went away. Please don't do that while we're talking about it. I've restored the section, which already has a tag asking for citations. --Anonymous, 20:02 UTC, June 9, 2008.

Medical cost that can be covered by the state

For practical reasons, (I think) the Dutch government must limit the expense that can be paid by the state for an individuals medical assistance to €80,000 per year. Is there a list of these values for other countries? How might they be derived? How does the average "value" of an individual factor in? I suppose it has to do with gross domestic product? Like if a person brought a certain amount of money into the country, it might not be sensible to allow them to pass for a sum below this amount. How does it work? ----Seans Potato Business 16:49, 7 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, no; oh yes.

I watch more BBC America than is good for a body. I keep hearing reference to a sort of catch phrase, seemingly from theater, where one side says something like "Oh, no it isn't!" and the other side says "Oh, yes it is!" One example is in a Monty Python sketch involving Puss in Boots. I just heard it again on "Cash in the Attic". What is the origin of that? --Milkbreath (talk) 17:00, 7 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Pantomime -84user (talk) 17:32, 7 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
O'Rly? Chris M. (talk) 17:33, 7 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
It is a common way for English kids to conduct an argument regarding the factuality of a disputed issue. How do they do this at the other side of the North-Atlantic divide?  --Lambiam 17:35, 7 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
"Uh-huh!" "Uh-Uh!" Wrad (talk) 17:41, 7 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
That's one way. Beyond that, if it the matter is a particularly convoluted issue involving, say, a double dog dare, the one kid's lawyer will call the other kid's lawyer. Or they have a gunfight. --Milkbreath (talk) 17:48, 7 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Are you sure that kids use it that way, Lambiam? It doesn't ring for me (though it's true that I'm not around kids very much). To me it is only the pantomime riff, as 84user said (usually augmented with a 'Look behind you!'). I remember hearing American children on television and films retorting to "It is not!" with "It is so!" and thinking how lucky they were to have a way of doing so: our "It is" sounded weak beside it. --ColinFine (talk) 18:49, 7 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Punch and Judy routine?--Wetman (talk) 06:59, 8 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Pantomime ? Part of the "he's behind you" routine.I've heard those exact words used in pantomime.hotclaws 08:08, 8 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It's pantomime. AndyJones (talk) 12:46, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Watch or listen to the Monty Python sketch Argument clinic. It will leave you in stitches. "This is not an argument! An argument is not just a contradiction!", "Oh yes it is!", "Oh no it isn't!" etc. Zunaid©® 13:44, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

ontario canada

question: although this township covers alot of ground, the british name means little? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kcron (talkcontribs) 19:29, 7 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

According to our article, the name is derived from a Huron word: ontarí:io, meaning 'Great Lake'.—eric 20:22, 7 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
And it is a province, not a township, more like a state if you know America, except much bigger in area. If the questioner is puzzled by "Ontario", I wonder what he/she thinks of "Saskatchewan" or "Manitoba". ៛ Bielle (talk) 23:30, 7 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I assume it is a riddle about a township in Ontario. Little Township in Cochrane? Pettypiece Township in Kenora? List of townships in Ontario would help if there weren't thousands of them. Most townships cover "a lot" of ground; what is "a lot"? What is "British" opposed to? French? A native name? This is not a very good riddle. Adam Bishop (talk) 03:24, 8 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Tiny, Ontario - EronTalk 20:18, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Oscar Wilde quote

There was some quote somewhere, about the fact that "everyone is someone else" with respect to their thoughts and ideas being a collection of those of previous people. I can't remember exactly. I think it was attributed to Oscar Wilde. ----Seans Potato Business 21:30, 7 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation. Oscar Wilde, De Profundis, a.1905. Mhicaoidh (talk) 23:47, 7 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Here is one text [2] and another [3] that needs downloading, but be aware there are several versions as it was originally a letter written in prison and not published til after his death. Mhicaoidh (talk) 00:09, 8 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks very much. ----Seans Potato Business 14:47, 8 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]


June 8

Middle Ages

What were the forms of communication is the Middle Ages? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.223.15.49 (talk) 03:02, 8 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Speaking, of course. Writing, for those who could read - usually in Latin, later more often in a vernacular language. Images combined with speech to communicate with the masses who could not read or write - at first paintings or mosaics, later stained-glass windows, in a church telling Bible stories, for example. Flags and later coats-of-arms to communicate who was on whose side in a battle. To take a message a very long distance, you had to walk, ride a horse, or take a ship. Basically, the same as everywhere else in space and time until the invention telegraphic and telephonic communication. Adam Bishop (talk) 03:19, 8 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Also minstrelsy. --Allen (talk) 03:31, 8 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Ah, of course, how could I forget that. Minstrels, troubadors, trouveres, minnesingers, etc. Adam Bishop (talk) 04:11, 8 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Hi, this sounds a bit of a home work question. I'm guessing you are really asking about communications between and within kingdoms - a quick google reveals a lot of academic papers available that go into detail on that. But you really need to give a bit more detail, such as region, before anyone can really help. Mhicaoidh (talk) 05:07, 8 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Related to minstrels are Town criers. For longer distance communication, they had beacons that could be lit in a relay to warn of invaders over a long distance very quickly, but which couldn't carry much information. Sound that travels long distances, such as yodels, whistles and drums could also be used, although these still could not carry as much information as human speech. Let's not forget Carrier pigeons, though! Laïka 16:02, 8 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
See also Smoke signal, Heliograph, Hydraulic telegraph, and Semaphore line.  --Lambiam 06:37, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

GNP, GNP per Capita and Proportion of People Living in Cities

What were the GNP, GNP per capita and proportion of people living in cities of the United States, Great Britain, France and Australia in 1900, 1925 and 1950?

What were the countries with the highest GNP, GNP per capita and proportion of people living in cities in the world in 1900, 1925 and 1950? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.7.166.181 (talk) 08:08, 8 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

This should at least provide historical GDP data for the UK and the USA. Fribbler (talk) 23:13, 8 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Automobile/Consumerism

Is the idea behind embracing the automobile, in the way that I think America and Germany (any possibly man other countries did) to make people consumers of petrol and therefore make them work to pay for it (and therefore productive)? Is all this consumerism just to keep people working? And what is the point in this? So people at the top of the capitalist food-chain can live more comfortably or to make us progress as a human race? And progress towards what? What are the ultimate goals of Western governments? World domination? Utopia? What's going on? ----Seans Potato Business 14:45, 8 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

In America the idea was, I think, to make people consumers of gasoline and of cars so that the oil companies and General Motors would make more profit. See Great American Streetcar Scandal. Some economists think that consumerism and planned obsolescence in general are necessary elements of any healthy economic system. I'm not sure Western governments have "ultimate goals"; most politicians have a horizon that does not reach much further than the next elections – and even that may be too generous.  --Lambiam 21:49, 8 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
What's going on is that the United States is a big place. Outside of major cities, the public transport system is not well developed and there's really not been a big push to develop it. People like having control over their travel, and owning a car is the most direct way to do so. While I'm sure there was plenty of marketing involved, the sheer freedom to hop in the car and go where you want when you want has a strong appeal to many Americans. That aside, I think Lambiam summed up what's going on with Western governments. There's no "ultimate goal," really. Most politicians are focused on providing jobs and money to their constituents, which results in the politician getting reelected. And their constituents are focused on paying the bills and improving their status in life. — The Hand That Feeds You:Bite 02:17, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Car rental peak dates

I'm doing some research and trying to find some sort of report on the internet of the car rental peak seasons, specifically in Miami. IS there anyplace on the website I can find this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.169.13.53 (talk) 18:31, 8 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Here's something you could maybe use [4]. I know it isn't Miami, but I'd say research on this topic is slim pickings. Fribbler (talk) 23:09, 8 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Addressing an Assyrian bishop?

How does one address an Assyrian bishop with the proper terms of respect or gestures expected? What is the general protocol?--Sonjaaa (talk) 20:43, 8 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I think "Your Grace" is an appropriate form of address. I don't know if kissing the ring is customary, but in any case I think that is only appropriate for people who believe that His Grace is standing in the apostolic succession and ascribe ecclesiastical authority to him because of that.  --Lambiam 21:33, 8 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Austria?

I was watching the Euro 2008 match between Austria and Croatia earlier on (my opinion on the match? Austria were robbed :-0) but I wondered...why do Austria use the Engish(?) version of their name so much? There were ads on the sidelines advertising "Austria Telekom" and I noticed that there national abbreviation is .at ? Fribbler (talk) 23:24, 8 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

As the proper name is Österreich and starts with än Ümläut, it woüld be awkward if the cöde was öe. --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 23:51, 8 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I guess that makes sense for the country code. But why the other uses such as Austrian Airlines? Fribbler (talk) 23:54, 8 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Lots of countries use English names for their airlines. In Austria's case, I think "Austria" is also the Latin form of the country's name, so it's probably been around for a lot longer than the prominence of the English language, Felix Austria and so on. -- Arwel (talk) 00:27, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I suspected a Latin basis for it. But I wasn't sure. Fribbler (talk) 00:30, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Austria is the latin name. See here:
Bella gerant alii, tu felix Austria nube.
Nam quae Mars aliis, dat tibi diva Venus.
Similar how Switzerland often uses Helvetia.--Tresckow (talk) 00:28, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
There is, in fact, an airline company named Helvetic Airways, but the big one is Swiss, formerly Swissair (1931 - 2002). In addition to Austrian Airlines, Austria also has Austrian Arrows, Austrojet, and LTU Austria, as well as InterSky, Robin Hood Aviation, Teamline Air, Tyrolean Jet Services, and Welcome Air — the only German words occurring in all these names were hidden in the initials "LTU"! I agree with Arwel, and the language of the airline industry has been English for quite a while.
Anglicisms have been gradually asserting themselves in other places in business and advertisement lingo too. Since their unraveling and privatization in the 1990s the telecommunications industry have become anglophone: The Post und Telegraphenverwaltung became Post und Telekom Austria, later split off into Telekom Austria, Mobilkom Austria, and (now they use German, for good old mail and banking!) the Österreichische Post AG. (Around the same time, the PTT was anglified into Swisscom). See also Denglisch#Advertising_language. Two of the intended associations with English and Denglish are progress and international appeal. Another example are stock market indices Austrian Traded Index and Swiss Market Index. Germany is a bit more German, with Deutsche Telekom, Deutsche Lufthansa AG and Deutscher Aktien IndeX 30. ---Sluzzelin talk 01:31, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
In North America, Deutscher Aktien IndeX 30 is called "Dax", which is readily pronounced in English and yet cannot be confused with any other word. Thus, there seems to be no "need" (if I may be allowed an anglophone bias to slip through) to change the time-honoured full German name. ៛ Bielle (talk) 03:58, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

This has nothing to do with English. It might be an additional benefit but not the reason itself. See all the companies that were founded long before English became the dominant language: Austria (disambiguation)--Tresckow (talk) 10:11, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I do think it has something to do with English. The word Austrian has been in Austrian Airlines for fifty years now. Austrian Airways existed even longer ago. The word Austrian is an English demonym, not Latin, not German, nor any other language. The dominant position of English may be a newer phenomenon, but its gradual invasion started earlier. The old tradition of giving Latin names to student organizations, football clubs and other institutions may also be a factor, but I disagree with "this has nothing to do with English". ---Sluzzelin talk 14:24, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

About Apostasy in Islam (is/maybe one misconception in Islam)?

I am a Sunni Muslim I am not happy about how Islam treats Kafirs. If Muslims convert in Islamic country, they receive capital punishment. It's a human rights violation. It's also a misconception. It a violation of Universal Declaration of Human Rights. The word "Apostasy" is offensive to me. It not freedom of religion. Why Islam has this problem and is criticized for it? Note: I am not asking for legal advice and/or a poll. I just want simple answers. Jet (talk) 23:27, 8 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Our article on "Freedom of Religion" has a bit on it. As with all religions, it's subjective. For example Christianity forbids false gods, which could be seen as a dictat regarding apostacy. But it is rarely acted on (though many would say it is acted on in terms of atheists in the USA). Fribbler (talk) 23:36, 8 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
It took Christian Europe hundreds of years to get over fear of conversion and stop killing people. People just have to wisen up and realize that religions that force themselves on people are only hurting themselves. Religion has to be in people's hearts if it's going to do any good. People forced into a religion will not respect it as much as people who freely choose it and recognize what they have. Wrad (talk) 23:39, 8 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Countries (and groups) that punish conversion with death are criticised for it, although not as much as if it happened in the West for all the reasons that other human rights violations are less criticized - trade, interference in internal affairs and the sheer uselessness of criticizing a country if it doesn't want to listen. DJ Clayworth (talk) 16:44, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]


June 9

Battle of Toulouse, 1814

Does anyone know when the first news of the Battle of Toulouse reached London? The battle took place on 10 April, and Wellington's dispatches (written on the 12th) are published in the London Gazette on Sat 26 April (the dispatches having arrived the previous day). But was this the first news of the engagement to be printed, or had there been rumours/other news of a battle prior to the offical detailed dispatches arriving?

As a comparison, news of the allied army's entry into Paris 30 March reached London on 5 April, and news of Napoleon's 6th April abdication was printed in the Gazette on the 9th April. News of Napoleon's abdication reached Wellington in Toulouse on 12 April. Thanks in advance to anyone able to answer this rather specific request! Gwinva (talk) 02:14, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You can search the Times online from 1785 (so excited to discover this :) – thanks!) – anyway, probably best you do the search, as you would know better than I which keywords to try, including possible spellings of Toulouse. But I do see a reference on April 22, with possibly another on the 18th. NB: you have to be registered to read more than a few lines. WikiJedits (talk) 13:23, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for that link. I did think of the Times, but I must have started searching from somewhere odd, since I kept getting "subscriber link only" and gave up. There seem to be several potentially useful articles, and the site indicates I can register for free, at the moment, but I can't get any of the links to work (including the main www.timesonline.co.uk page) so I'll have to try again tomorrow. But thanks for that! It'll be just the thing, if I can only get it to work!!!! Gwinva (talk) 05:29, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Organic food processing

I am a food manufacturer, making Indian sauces and curry paste. I would like to find out what percentage of food additives e.g citric acid, gum are permitted toin manufacturing organic sauces. e.g if i manufacture garlic paste, add water , what percentage of food acid am i able to add to that. Posted on behalf of 58.178.34.2 (talk · contribs) Gimme danger (talk) 03:14, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Where are you wanting to sell your products? Different countries have different rules. ៛ Bielle (talk) 03:51, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Building the Alaska Highway

I can't find any article which contained information about the US Govt separating African-Americans road builders from the native peoples of Alaska when clearing to build the Alaska Highway. They were afraid that they could "produce hideous children" or something of that nature. I either read about it or saw a documentary on the Discovery Channel. The reason why I ask this, is that I happen to know a girl who is exactly half Aleut and half African-American and she is the most beautiful woman I ever seen. I wanted to reference that fact to her but couldn't find it on the net. --Vincebosma (talk) 14:25, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

How exactly were you planning to phrase this to her? You certainly seem to mean well, but it might come across as a bit patronising. Also, the mention of her race(s) may be perceived as insulting, or even shallow. Snorgle (talk) 15:24, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

...because I am an Aleut, too. Please no opinions, I just need to know where I can find this information...--Vincebosma (talk) 15:36, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

This article discusses the role of black troops in building the highway, including regulations banning contact between them and the local population. On page 8 of the article is a quote from a white officer (son of a Confederate general) advocating a ban on such contact for fear that it would produce "an astonishing objectionable race of mongrels". Marco polo (talk) 17:37, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Marco Polo, Thanks! --Vincebosma (talk) 17:57, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Economists vs. Sociologists

What are the principal differences in opinion pr perspective between the practitioners of economy and the specialists of sociology ? 69.157.240.225 (talk) 14:31, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

In a way economists are just sociologists who use some (questionable) assumptions on human behaviour in their analysis, see Neoclassical economics#Overview. User:Krator (t c) 15:41, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Economics has traditionally viewed the human as a somewhat rational (and at least somewhat well-informed) being who seeks to maximize their utility. These assumptions allowed economists to use advanced mathematics to describe ideal economic behavior. In the later half of the 20th century, many of these assumptions have been challenged (information asymmetry, Behavioral economics).
Sociologists are economists, but without the good looks and sense of humor.DOR (HK) (talk) 03:06, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Sociology, on the other hand, has been strongly influenced by the dictum attributed to Émile Durkheim that social facts explain social phenomena. In practice, this has led to a more holistic view of the human (as opposed to a quantitative perspective, which economics traditionally adopts). Additionally, sociology was (and is) influenced to a much greater degree by views such as Marxism, Post* (postmodernism, poststructuralism), and various other primarily leftist views.
Do keep in mind that these broad outlines do not provide much information about the various non-mainstream views of either field (like say Sociobiology in Sociology, or Marxian economics in economics).--droptone (talk) 11:57, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The name of a cognitive bias effect: more informed people are more aware of the limits of their knowledge.

There is a cognitive bias effect which states that ignorant people will claim that they know more, while more informed people are more willing to admit that they don't know much. I'm trying to find out more about this. I'm sure it has a name, and that I've read an article about it on Wikipedia. However, my searches fail me. Help? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.70.239.247 (talk) 15:23, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Dunning-Kruger effect. --Sean 15:58, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hand-hammered dish

While working in a church archive, my supervisors and I came across the dish pictured to the right (which I'm using to illustrate basic silversmithing) in a set of church dishes; we're guessing that it was used for baptism. It was from a church in Kiowa County, Oklahoma, but the church was maintained as a mission by other churches from throughout the United States. If you look at the bottom, you can see a small inscription:

  • At the top, there's what appears to be a side view of a snare drum, with "T&T" above it
  • Below and to the side of the bottom of the drum are, on each side, small shapes: the right has a "P" in it, and the left is worn enough that no letter is visible
  • Well below the drum are the following numbers (with significant gaps between each one): 7 0 5 — 6 6
  • Finally, just below the numbers are the words HAND HAMMER

I've given all we know about it; any ideas as to who made it, date, place, etc.? Nyttend backup (talk) 15:44, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I only found that "T&T" could stand for "Thropp & Taylor" [5], silversmiths in Birmingham early 19th century, mentioned in some books on old silver listed here. (When I first read T&T in connection with the drum, I thought of steel drums makers from Trinidad & Tobago :) ---Sluzzelin talk 19:46, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
"Hand-hammered" copperware and silver are a theme of the Arts and Crafts Movement, typified in the US by terms "American Craftsman", or "Craftsman style", spanning roughly the first quarter of the 20th century. Taber & Tibbits, Wallingford, Connecticut, are your manufacturers, if this is your mark. A tabor is a kind of drum. Some of the other figures may refer to a design patent or company design inventory number. --Wetman (talk) 04:07, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
That's it! You can see the mark when viewing Nyttend's image full scale. ---Sluzzelin talk 12:29, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I don't know if you can see it clearly enough, but the bottom is worn enough that the "E" is missing on the left side, and the "NS" isn't visible at all. It's really nice that we can know what it's supposed to look like :-) Thanks! Nyttend (talk) 02:54, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Black population in Arab World

Which Arab nations have black population due to the history of slavery? I know that Mauritania, Djibouti, Sudan, Egypt and Morocco have black population because I have seen them in history books (e.g. Anwar Al-Sadat of Egypt) and in media (e.g. people in Morocco), but what about Algeria, Tunisia and Libya? Do they have black population? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.30.202.22 (talk) 17:51, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The black population in Mauritania, Djibouti and Sudan is not due to the history of slavery. It is because subsaharan Africa is where (most) black people ultimately come from. Algebraist 22:19, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah. Arabian countries don't have a history of Black slavery like America. They treated them like real people. Imagine that. Wrad (talk) 22:37, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Well..... a bit more complicated. Fribbler (talk) 22:42, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Of course but the black population isn't there because of slavery. They're there because they've always been there. Wrad (talk) 23:22, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
There has been some migration to Libya by people from south of the Sahara for economic reasons, since Libya, with its oil exports, is more prosperous than countries to its south. I don't know whether there has been much migration to Algeria or Tunisia from the south. However, all of the countries of North Africa, including Egypt, are after all African countries. There has been migration back and forth across the Sahara for thousands of years, dating back to a time when the Sahara was not yet a desert and its inhabitants moved both south and north as it dried up. Some Egyptians may look "black" to Europeans, but most Egyptians simply fall somewhere on the phenotypic spectrum between Europeans and East Africans. Marco polo (talk) 01:51, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
There was plenty of black slavery in Islam, Wrad (and white, and Chinese, etc). They weren't any more enlightened than European slave traders. Adam Bishop (talk) 03:30, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
According to Thomas Sowell, the history of slavery in the Western world was different from slavery elsewhere in just one area: many in the Western world came to support abolitionism, an idea unique to the West. According to Sowell, "what destroyed slavery in the non-Western world was Western imperialism", [6] although this may be overly optimistic, given that the battle against slavery in the non-Western world has not yet been won. —Kevin Myers 05:30, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think anywhere approached the level of dedication to and efficiency of and size of the Western world's slavery programmes Nil Einne (talk) 12:28, 15 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

No, no I mean UAE and Saudi Arabia have black population, would you mind explaining that? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.64.128.27 (talk) 02:06, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Saudi Arabia outlawed chattel slavery in 1962, the UAE ("Trucial States" at the time) followed under British pressure in 1963. Apparently, 10,000 slaves were freed at the time in Saudi Arabia [7]. Many were Sub-Saharan or East African. ---Sluzzelin talk 11:17, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

European facial appearances

What are the natural hair colours and eye colours among the Russian people? both men and women. what about Italians, Frenchs, Spaniards, Portugueses, Germans, Dutches and Greeks? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.30.202.22 (talk) 17:53, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I haven't been to Russia, Greece or Portugal, but all the other countries have all the hair colours and eye colours known to human kind. They are all, after all, open to immigration. I've known blue-eyed Italians, green-eyed Russians, blonde Spaniards and black-haired, brown-eyed Dutch. In general, the further north one goes in Europe the greater the preponderance of fair skin and light eyes, until you get to the arctic peoples who are also, possibly Russian, for example, and their skins tend to the copper in colour with dark eyes. Perhaps, if you would tell us where you are going with this, we might be of more assistance. ៛ Bielle (talk) 18:08, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The article on eye color has a "Light Eyes Map" of Europe, and the article on human hair color features a "Light hair coloration map" of Europe. Bielle is right of course, and no map will tell you the "natural" hair colors of the countries you mentioned, but you can see a snapshot of the statistical spread across Europe at the time the data were collected (quite a while ago in Carleton S. Coon's case, a bit more recent in Peter Frost's collection). ---Sluzzelin talk 18:31, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Note, of course, that these are averages. Maps of this sort make areas look far more homogenous than they actually are, and hide their sampling locations and sample sizes by generalizing all of the areas (some of which are barely inhabited). Just be warned that they can be pretty misleading if you are not careful in interpreting them! --98.217.8.46 (talk) 04:08, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Arab Sunni School of Thoughts

Which Arab nations in the Middle East (excluding Algeria, Morocco, Tunisia, Libya and Egypt) follow Hanbali, Hanafi and Maliki? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.30.202.22 (talk) 17:54, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The Hanbali, Hanafi, and Maliki articles will tell you. Adam Bishop (talk) 07:04, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Pashtun provinces and districts

I know that out of 34, 11 provinces are pashtun, but what is the total number of districts together? I still think that it is 125 districts together in 11 provinces. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.30.202.22 (talk) 18:21, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Provinces and districts of where? -- SGBailey (talk) 22:02, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Afghanistan, I believe. Algebraist 22:14, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Since Afghanistan has the right no. of provinces (and Pakistan doesn't), to partially answer your question, Provinces of Afghanistan has a nice table of provinces, their (official?) languages, and the no. of districts. Nine list Pashto only, for a total of 107 districts. I have no idea which other two provinces are considered Pashtun. Clarityfiend (talk) 01:38, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Or Pakistan.--Goon Noot (talk) 23:41, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Population of Detroit

In the 2000 census, the population of Detroit was determined to be 951,270. The Wikipedia article on Detroit lists the (I'm assuming official) 2006 population estimate, which is 918,849. I distinctly recall an earlier estimate from 2005 that around 886,000 persons lived in the city of Detroit. The article on Detroit used to display this estimate. In fact, I've seen many estimates that were lower than 886,000.

Does this mean that the population of Detroit actually increased between 2005 and 2006 (or for any amount of time in the 2000s), or does it mean that the previous estimates were wrong and Detroit was actually losing residents slower than they had estimated? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.227.1.59 (talk) 18:35, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The latter. The population was declining, but perhaps not as fast as the Census Bureau had estimated. The Census Bureau revised its estimate upward in response to challenges by the Detroit city government and local civic groups. See this article. Marco polo (talk) 20:41, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Inflation in Canada

I'm looking for a market-based mid-to-long-term inflation indicator for Canada.

Something like the TIPS spread in the US (the spread between TIPS and regular treasuries of the same maturity)

Are there any CPI-indexed securities in Canada that are liquid enough to provide this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by NByz (talkcontribs) 19:50, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You can probably use the spread between Real Return Bonds and Canadian Treasuries. Go to this page from the Bank of Canada website. The yields on the RRBs are at the bottom but I couldn't figure out the maturities. Zain Ebrahim (talk) 20:15, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks Zain.

I found that the Bank of Canada issues inflation-indexed fixed-income securities too, just like the US TIPS.

They are called RRB (real return bonds) and are indexed to the ‘Canada All-Items CPI’.

Quotes can be found at the bottom of this page (click the “real returns” tab), and compared to the “Canada” bonds in the same little box.

The process would be:

1) Choosing the effective maturity date that you’re interested in (looks like they have 2021, 2026, 2031 and 2036) 2) Subtracting the Yield to Maturity of the un-indexed bond from the YTM of the indexed bond (I assumed they would have the same ‘credit rating’ or default risk etc.)

It looks like this particular page doesn’t have a regular Canada bonds for 2026, 31, 36 etc. So in this example I used the closest years, aways within 2 (which is fine, because anyone who can predict the difference between what’s going to happen in 2029 and 2031 deserves a nobel prize in something)

So the results are:

Year Implied Inflation (annually) 2021 2.51 2026 2.52 2031 2.58 2036 2.55

NByz (talk) 20:19, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Don't you mean: subtract the YTM of the indexed from the YTM of the un-indexed? Zain Ebrahim (talk) 20:28, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Yep, thanks! 24.68.228.182 (talk) 21:07, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Theme of novels

I have about one year sometime in August to do a dissertation on three novels with a similar theme. I'd quite like to do something about the theme of violence in North American society. So I have American Psycho, but am rather unsure about other novels. Any ideas would be appreciated. Thanks, 86.154.193.187 (talk) 20:50, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Blood Meridian. Fight Club. --D. Monack | talk 00:28, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Last Exit To Brooklynhotclaws 14:24, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

June 10

shi'a muslim in Pakistan

Which major cities in Pakistan have shi'a muslim population? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.64.128.27 (talk) 01:58, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Every major city in Pakistan has a Shi'a community. Marco polo (talk) 13:28, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Omni-Benevolent origins

What is the source of the belief in an "all good" omni-benevolent God in Christianity?

I have already looked for this on wikipedia, as per http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omnibenevolence#Religious_perspectives

However, I find the two proofs for omni-benevolence lacking. I have googled this as well, but to no avail.

Perhaps you could further extrapolate and explain the already existing entry that I cited, or perhaps you are better at googling than I am.

Whatever your method is, I thank you for your time. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Steelersfan7roe (talkcontribs) 02:10, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

There are many biblical quotes that could be applied to this concept. Perhaps you could explain exactly what you want to find, or what you find lacking? WikiJedits (talk) 20:32, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

What is the cheapest camera you could use for an independent film?

Like In the soup or Π (film). GoingOnTracks (talk) 02:20, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I think you could use whatever you want. A $200 digital camera with video compatibilities? Or you can make it a sideshow and just use a disposable camera? Paragon12321 (talk) 00:12, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Senator with missing fingers

Which recently-elected US Senator is missing fingers, or has a serious hand injury. I was convinced it was Jim Webb, but it looks to me like he has all ten, so I must be confused. Thanks! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 146.115.121.46 (talk) 03:25, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Jon Tester is missing three fingers. (Lest you doubt...)--98.217.8.46 (talk) 04:04, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]


Yay, thanks. I don't know how I confused them. I guess they look kind of similar. Thanks! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.138.152.238 (talk) 13:10, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Bob Dole? Not too recent, though . . . DOR (HK) (talk) 03:07, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Todays Standard of Living As Compared to The 70's

I remember The 70's As being pretty tough financially,and the economy as a whole seemed pretty lousy(Stagflation,energy rationing,etc) but as you read about wealth/service distribution in the U.S. today, the idea you take away is that over-all, economically, things are worse today, is there a way to find out if we are better off now than we were then? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.111.85.37 (talk) 03:46, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Simple measures such as comparing GDP and figures of that style will be a good starting point. That will show overall economic increase/decrease. Standard of living is much harder because local-economies/personal circumstances are harder to understand. You could compare a variety of figures and look for an overall-trend - say crime statistics, infant mortality rates, average life spans, average working hours, average free-time per week (as working hours have increased it is perhaps surprising to see that for many even though the hours of work have increased their 'free' time has also increased). A combination of those stats should help. Sorry can't do much research to answer Q at min but i'm certain there is a specific index/series of stats on standard of living just can't remember the name. 194.221.133.226 (talk) 09:02, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
If you look at the numbers (such as GDP per capita), you will find that the average "standard of living" is higher today than it was during the 1970s. People can and do buy more stuff. They live in bigger houses, have more vehicles, more TVs, computers, and other possessions cluttering their bigger houses. Considered quantitatively, I think that you will find that the "standard of living" even of the least affluent quintile has at worst held steady since the 1970s, while that of the quintile with the highest income has increased dramatically. However, what these numbers fail to capture is quality of life. To afford this standard of living, people are working longer hours, and often a second or third job, dealing with mountains of debt, and sitting for hours in traffic. In the 1970s, many more households had a single earner (typically the husband) supporting an entire family. Today, both spouses have to work. In the 1970s, people had more time for social organizations and voluntary activities that might have given them more of a sense of connection. Today people arrive home exhausted from their long commute and sit, often solitary, in front of a computer or TV. So, while the "standard of living", measured in numbers, is higher today, I'm not sure that the same is true for the quality of life. You might want to look at Standard of living in the United States and this article on standard of living. Marco polo (talk) 13:05, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
And remember, when looking at averages for a population, the mean may not be the most useful place to be looking. The mode may suit your purposes better. 79.74.56.70 (talk) 18:40, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Another important idea in economics is that people tend to gauge happiness relative to their peer groups, rather than relative to any absolute measures. Also happiness tends to exhibit "Decreasing returns to scale" (the more you have, the less valuable an additional "unit" of it is.)
These ideas combine to suggest:
1) Actual life satisfaction doesn't increase at a very significant rate, as a function of GDP per capita
2) More income disparity (lots of rich people, lots of poor people) means overall happiness would be lower at any given income level than if things were more equitable (lots of middle class people)
24.68.228.182 (talk) 21:13, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I do not agree that the U.S. standard of living is higher today than in the 1970's. Americans feel more economically stressed than they have in decades, however reassuring official government statistics may be. Wages are stagnant, fuel prices are up at a record rate, food prices are up, and home values have plummeted. [8] Several articles in major newsweeklies in the last couple of years have discussed the widespread observation that today a college graduate has less chance of "living the American dream" of getting a good job and a house in the suburbs. Wages for new college graduates have not kept up with inflation. [9] 50% more recent college graduates move back in with their parents than in the 1970s. Fewer get married or find a career appropriate to their education.[10] 42% of U.S. employers are only offering college graduates $30,000, or less which, combined with staggering college loans due to cutbacks in grants and scholarships, makes it impossible for them to achieve the independence they seek, and forces a prolonged adolescence on them.[11] It doesn't get better in the 30's than in the 20's. Americans in their mid 30's are almost three times more likely to live with their parents than in previous generations.[12] The "middle class" is shrinking. Less educated workers are far worse off, due to the widening disparity between the upper and lower socioeconomic strata, the shrinking number of unionized manufacturing jobs, the flight of jobs overseas and the influx of low paid workers from abroad. Edison (talk) 21:37, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
One of the difficulties in comparing two eras so far apart is the enormous jump in technological innovation (he writes on the Wikipedia page in Hong Kong, which is then able to be read around the world in a matter of seconds.) And, along with innovation, massive deflation. Here's a neat example: in 1980, computing one million instructions per second (MIPS) cost about US$1 million. Today, maybe a penny, maybe less.DOR (HK) (talk) 03:11, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The existence of gigaflop processors, HDTV and other shiny baubles does not make up for the declines in standard of living cited above. Edison (talk) 22:06, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Looking for a quote

I'm looking for a quote from British industrialism..

it begins "Two nations.." and ends "THE RICH AND THE POOR". Can anyone help?--Goon Noot (talk) 06:18, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Two nations between whom there is no intercourse and no sympathy; who are ignorant of each other's habits, thoughts and feelings, as if they were dwellers in different zones or inhabitants of different planets; who are formed by different breeding, are fed by different food, are ordered by different manners, and are not governed by the same laws ... THE RICH AND THE POOR.

-Benjamin Disraeli

--Goon Noot (talk) 06:19, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

go thee to nunnery

when hamlet said go thee to nunnery did he really mean it? do u feel that it is the most cruel statement in english literature whether he meant it or not? remi —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.88.252.28 (talk) 07:26, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • "Nunnery" was slang for brothel in Elizabethan times, so as well as telling Ophelia to go to be a nun, he could also have been suggesting she become a whore. Yes, it's a cruel statement. AndyJones (talk) 08:04, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
In passing: it's "get thee", not "go thee", and in context, the admonition is clearly to become a nun, not to become a whore, since a whore can be "a breeder of sinners", while a nun would not. Hamlet is telling Ophelia to be celibate, not profligate.- Nunh-huh 08:40, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
He might be telling her to stay away from crazy guys like himself. Or maybe he is just pretending to be crazy in that scene because he knows Polonius and Claudius are spying on them. Or maybe he resents his mother's quick re-marriage and he's taking it out on Ophelia (why would he marry Ophelia when women are so fickle?). Or maybe he just really is crazy. The Hamlet and Ophelia articles might help. In any case, I doubt it's the cruelest statement in all of English literature... Adam Bishop (talk) 15:27, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Presidential pardon

May President Bush pardon senior staff members such as Karl Rove or Vice President Cheney as a preventive measure? May the president pardon someone who has not been indicted or convicted of a crime, but might in fact be indicted after the president leaves office? Jeffynelson (talk) 17:28, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, as our article Pardon explains, the president may pardon any person of misconduct chargeable under Federal law whether or not that person has yet faced charges. When Gerald Ford pardoned Richard Nixon, Nixon had not yet been charged with a crime. Marco polo (talk) 18:02, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Check out Proclamation 4311 for the exact wording of a get out of jail free card. --Sean 18:35, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
To answer your last question, pardons, as far as I know, are permanent unless for some reason the President says otherwise. Keep in mind, pardoning someone in the middle of a big investigation could be seen as implicating yourself. Paragon12321 (talk) 00:08, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Could he pardon himself proactively? DJ Clayworth (talk) 21:19, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
"Pardon me? the constitutional case against presidential self-pardons." Fribbler (talk) 10:55, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

USPS book post

Does the USPS have special discounts for posting books within the US? How is the cost calculated? What is the procedure for it? Links would be very welcome. A Google search yielded no result for book post. Thanks in advance. Kushal (talk) 18:04, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It's called Media Mail now. See United States Postal Service and Media Mail. Depends only on the weight of the package. There's also "Bound Printed Matter" rate, which is sometimes cheaper, as it varies by weight and distance. If sending things BPM, be sure to write "address services requested" on the package, as without this they are disposed of if undeliverable to the listed address, unlike media mail, which is forwarded or returned.John Z (talk) 18:26, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks John. Thank you very much. I will go to the link right away. Kushal (talk) 20:54, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Personal Relationship with Jesus

Modern Christians often speak about having a personal relationship with Jesus. What are the ways in which they would go about trying to develop or maintain such a relationship?

--91.104.47.60 (talk) 19:46, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

According to this website, it is more a matter of accepting certain assumptions and adopting a certain mental and spiritual attitude than of specific actions. However, according to this website, action, specifically prayer, is necessary for developing a personal relationship. Marco polo (talk) 20:19, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Broadly, I'd look at Born again Christianity and Lutheranism.
Here are a few links I found that address the specific question: [13] [14] [15] [16]
I'm not supporting or endorsing any of those links, but they seem relevant. Erobson (Talk) 20:23, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Brother Lawrence might also be of interest, he is famous for having such a relationship. WikiJedits (talk) 20:30, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Could I extend the question and ask if anyone has ever claimed to have had carnal relations with Jesus or to be in a somehow spiritual-physical relationship with the saviour? 200.127.59.151 (talk) 23:21, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
In a way these have. Fribbler (talk) 23:36, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I'm reminded of St. Theresa... Erobson (Talk) 17:01, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

June 11

J. L. Webb

Is there any significance to this name, which is found on advertisements and promotional materials for many major credit cards and bank cards? It seems strange to me that several companies (Discover, AmEx, and several bank cards) use the same name, (though I suppose it's not too unlike the 555 area code). Was J L Webb anyone important, or is this perhaps some play on words that eludes me at the moment? Tuckerekcut (talk) 00:00, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Finding a U.S. Congressional Report

I was wondering if anyone would know where to go to locate a US Congressional issued report. The name is "U.S.S. Iowa tragedy : an investigative failure : report of the Investigations Subcommittee and Defense Policy Panel of the Committee on Armed Services, House of Representatives, One Hundred First Congress, second session, March 5, 1990", if that helps. 129.108.97.112 (talk) 00:14, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Designated Federal depository libraries have all those publications... AnonMoos (talk) 00:37, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
If you (or someone else) has LexisNexis access, it is available online through LexisNexis Congressional. --98.217.8.46 (talk) 00:56, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

punishment for disturbing the peace

What is the punishment in Arizona for disturbing the peace? I went to court & could have just paid a fine but the judge said the he would make it easier for me and send me to screenings for anger management & alcohol abuse (I don't drink). Now, I have to go to classes for 12 weeks for one (2 hours each) and for the other one I have 2 days of classes (8 hours each). The screenings cost me $150.00 and the classes will end up costing me $340.00 by the time I'm through. My fine and court cost were only $240.00...together!

I would rather have paid the $240.00 and been done with it then to go through 12 weeks of classes and spend $490.00. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sassysunny (talkcontribs) 00:49, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Looks like you got an answer here[17].The judge is looking for change, SS. He doesn't want to see you there again, cheers. Julia Rossi (talk) 01:55, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Voting for the president

I would like to hear feedback on this because I do not understand how Americans think... I live in the US, and especially in my state, we have a lot of swing voters. In other words, they are republican one election, then republican the next. Are Americans so dumb that they vote based on things other then their beliefs? For example, I just read Obama is trying to get women who supported Hillary to support him. That kinda means that women ONLY wanted Hillary Clinton because she was a female. I know women who told me the only reason they would vote for her was because she was a female. I'm sorry and I don't know if I am allowed to say this, but why are people so stupid?

People want to impeach Bush now, wow what a great idea. Waste more money, it should have happened a long time ago. And you guys really believe he didn't know the planes were gonna hit the WTC? He just let it happen so he can get dumb people to support him for the dumb war we are having. If any of you have taken an American history class, you would have learned that we knew that Pearl Harbor was going to be bombed, the president let it happen so we could join the war. Same thing here, Bush knew we were going to get hit and he let it happen. You can be naive, you can be a fool, or whatever you wish, but he knew it. He just let it happen so he could make himself and his friends richer and steal more money.

I would really like to hear what other people have to say about all this... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.82.33.31 (talk) 05:12, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Do not start debates or post diatribes. The reference desk is not a soapbox. Adam Bishop (talk) 05:56, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
If you would like to hear people's opinions on this, please join a political discussion forum or ask random people on the street. This is not the place for discussions of this nature. Dismas|(talk) 06:31, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
One argument I've heard for switching sides at every election (in the UK) is that it "keeps them on their toes". Some people think that when a group of politicians have been in power for too long they start abusing the system and so the best way to conter that tendency is to constantly switch sides. 200.127.59.151 (talk) 14:34, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Where is the Yoga Korunta located?68.148.164.166 (talk) 07:56, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The official story is that the original manuscript has been eaten by ants and no longer exists, however, according to this source, there is speculation that it never existed. Marco polo (talk) 13:47, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
So it might have been eaten by imaginary ants? Clarityfiend (talk) 17:17, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

How tall was the Scottish patriot Sir William Wallace in actuality? 71.231.122.22 (talk) 08:58, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think we'll ever know. Some reports online claim that "he was said" to have been six feet and six or seven inches tall. Our article on Wallace Sword states: "It has been estimated that to be able to wield the sword Sir William Wallace must have been more than six feet six inches tall." One of the references, swordforum, doesn't actually support this claim, and the blade might have been replaced, and Wallace might not even have owned the sword. ---Sluzzelin talk 09:42, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
As Sluzzelin says above, we'll never know (unless someone locates the parts of his quartered body and measures his reassembled skeleton). Deducing a height from the purported sword is a waste of time. Firstly, it's unlikely to be his sword, since it is of a later style. Moreover, the sword has been altered during "restorations" with a replacement hilt, and some suspect it has been shortened. More significantly, there is no direct correlation between a man's height and his sword. While an untrained individual would find the sword hard (or impossible) to wield, a man of average height could fight with a sword of such length if taught how to wield it properly (in the medieval style), as any knight would have been (from memory, I believe that Sword Forum article describes the case well).
We can make some deductions, however. Early sources describe Wallace as a tall man, with the body of a giant. Even making allowances for dramatic hyperbole, we can at least take that to mean he was above average height. A height of over six feet is not impossible; the idea that medieval men were short is a myth which has gained credence from misinterpretation of architecture and antique furniture. Low doorways were an architectural custom, arising from defensive structures (where an attacker is put at a disadvantage by their need to duck in order to enter); in the late Middle Ages it became the custom to sleep sitting up, and beds were generally made shorter. Archeological finds indicate that heights were not so different from our modern heights. A study of a London urban skeletons puts the average at 5'8" for a man, and 5'2" for a woman (ref: John Clark, The Medieval Horse and its Equipment The Boydell Press, 2004, quoting a 1988 study by WJ White; to be fair, the source gives no specific date within the medieval period). A well-nourished, athletic knight such as Wallace would probably exceed the average. In an age when men were admired for their warrior-like attributes and physical prowess, Wallace was seen and presented as a hero, who was harder and tougher than anyone. He probably had the stature to go with it (think of a modern sports hero, if you want a comparison), but to reach some empirical feet-and-inches height is impossible. He might have been 5'10", or 6'10". But he would have been large, muscular, strong and athletic. Gwinva (talk) 10:18, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Right at the end he got shorter and shorter. Edison (talk) 21:09, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Is this a lead in to another V-I-A-G-R-A commercial? ;-) -- Taxa (talk) 06:54, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Economic food chain

Where might I find a diagram of an economic food (income) chain or web such as would show lenders "feeding" on government through loans required under a deficit policy that would include the government "feeding" on taxpayers and taxpayers "feeding" on customers, etc.? -- Taxa (talk) 09:57, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Word comes with some good templates for little graphics like that. You just type in the words. Remember that, in most cases lenders (anyone with wealth saved (even if it's in savings accounts and mutual funds, the overall return on investment is heavily influenced by the availability of a liquid market for government debt)) are also consumers and tax-payers. Most people fit into every category to some degree. 24.68.228.182 (talk) 21:17, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I'm looking for an article or a site that already has such diagrams rather than to create one (right now) for myself. Yes, while viewing a drawing or a big fish eating a little fish while that fish was going for a smaller one 'til finally you were looking at chain of organisms from the mouth of the big fish going to something chasing a bacterium up his you know what. -- Taxa (talk) 22:24, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
ha! What are you researching all of this for? 24.68.63.88 (talk) 05:34, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I don't know. I get these cravings whenever I have Couvade Syndrome. ;-) -- Taxa (talk) 06:57, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Removing A Member from a Limited Liability Corporation (LLC)

I am in a LLC with someone. They want to run their own business now. This is fine. I want to remain an LLC without them. I also want to retain the name of the company as I did give the company it's name. For the past 5 days I have tried to contact the company who did our paperwork and they have not aswered back. I have also written a letter with this request and the partners wishes, had it notarised, sent it registered with return receipt to that company and the other partner. Where can I find info on how to dismantle this affair? Thank you, Dana —Preceding unsigned comment added by CICity (talkcontribs) 12:14, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

9-11

1. What do you think the world would be like if 9-11 never happened? 2. Why did the 9-11 hijackers put themselves at risk? 3. Who made up the fact that it was the Jews who did 9-11?

Interactive Fiction Expert/Talk to me 12:38, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

1. We'd all be a day younger; beyond that, your speculation is as good as ours. 2. See suicide attack. 3. The same sorts of people who blame the Jews for many of the world's other problems. --Sean 13:18, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
1)Conspiracy theorists would doubtless say that if the 9/11 attacks had not happened (they changed their minds and went home, they all got arrested, whatever), that some other event would have happened shortly thereafter which would have justified the same military moves and increases in military spending, changes in the balance of political power, and changes to individual rights such as the Patriot Act. 2)Suicide bombers and the like inevitably put themselves at risk. Demanding that people crash a plane and then getting off the plane rarely has the desired effect. Edison (talk) 21:03, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]


Question about Frederick I, Elector of Brandenburg

Quote from article on the Hohenzollerns:

"Frederick entered early into the service of Austria and fought on the side of King Sigismund of Hungary. After he returned he divided the inheritance from his father with his brother John, who received Bayreuth while Frederick kept Ansbach. At first he tried to mediate in the imperial confusion between King Wenceslaus and the party of Rupert of the Palatinate, nevertheless he fought on the side of Rupert in September 1399.

He resumed his rule of Ansbach in 1409 and after heavy feuding entered into the service of King Sigismund. As a representative of Brandenburghe took part on 20 September 1410 in the election of Sigismund as Holy Roman Emperor in Frankfurt. In gratitude, King Sigismund made him Oberster Hauptmann and Verwalter der Marken (1411). With an iron hand Frederick fought against the rebellious nobility of the March of Brandenburg (in particular, the Quitzow family) and, in the end, restored security. Frederick also became a member of the Parakeet Society and of the League of Constance.

At the Council of Constance (30 April 1415) Sigismund granted Frederick the titles of Margrave and Prince-elector of Brandenburg. On 21 October 1415 the Brandenburg states meeting in a Landtag asked him to rule in Berlin. The king awarded him the formal enfeoffment of the margravate on 18 April 1417. As Frederick did not agree with the forcible action of Sigismund against the Hussites, relations between them cooled."

Question: if it was in 1415 that Frederick was granted the titles of Margrave and Prince-elector of Brandenburg, how was he representing Brandenburg at the election in 1410?

Thanks in advance —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.181.127.189 (talk) 13:46, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

His brother John was Margrave of Brandenburg-Kulmbach, so he was probably representing him. Adam Bishop (talk) 15:39, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, Frederick's brother John was margrave of Bayreuth. It was only a generation or two after Frederick had been granted the margraviate of Brandenburg that the Hohenzollerns' territories around Bayreuth would come to be known as the Principality of Brandenburg-Kulmbach. Our articles on Frederick and on the Hohenzollerns are not entirely accurate in stating that Sigismund allowed Frederick to represent Brandenburg at the imperial election. The throne of Brandenburg was in fact occupied at the time of the election by Jobst of Moravia. However, Sigismund had previously held the throne of Brandenburg and had apparently pawned it to Jobst. Sigismund disputed Jobst's right to the electorate in the election of 1410. According to our article Imperial election, in the election of 1410, Sigismund designated Frederick as his representative for the Brandenburg electorate, although his right to do so was doubtful. (Frederick had by 1410 for some time offered military service to Sigismund.) When the electors voted in September of 1410, three electors (presumably including Frederick) voted for Sigismund. Apparently at least one elector other than Jobst was absent at this election, but Sigismund claimed the throne. However, Jobst took part in a subsequent election in October of 1410, which resulted in Jobst gaining the imperial throne with a majority of four out of the seven prince-electors. When Jobst died a few months later in early 1411, Sigismund regained the throne of Brandenburg and was able to secure his own election as emperor. Sigismund in turn granted the throne of Brandenburg to Frederick in 1411. I will correct the inconsistencies in the relevant articles. Marco polo (talk) 19:52, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Desiderius Erasmus on kissing in England

I read somewhere that during his visit to England Desiderius Erasmus remarked about how much the English kiss each other. If I remember correctly he also said something cheeky along the lines of "even men and women kiss to greet each other, something I could definitely get used to!". Does anyone know where I can find this again? Thanks in advance! --Cameron (T|C) 14:03, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

"English ladies," he said, "are divinely pretty, and too good-natured. They have an excellent custom among them, that wherever you go the girls kiss you. They kiss you when you come, they kiss you when you go, they kiss you at intervening opportunities, and their lips are soft, warm, and delicious." Corvus cornixtalk 18:25, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Following on, was there something about Erasmus contracting an infection which put him off the kissing custom? Can't find anything on it in his article. Julia Rossi (talk) 00:20, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I wonder where that quote is from? Everything2 is probably not the best source and there is no reference there. Adam Bishop (talk) 03:21, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Erasmus, writing in summer 1499 to his poet friend Fausto Andrelini, in Italy, says: Here are girls with angels' faces, so kind and obliging that you would prefer them to all your muses. Besides, there is a custom here never to be sufficiently commended. Wherever you come you are received with a kiss by all; you take your leave, you are dismissed with kisses; you return, kisses are repeated. They come to visit you: kisses again; they leave you: you kiss them all round. Should they meet you anywhere, kisses in abundance; in fine, wherever you move there Is nothing but kisses." Erasmus, Epistle 103 CWE I:193. --Wetman (talk) 05:43, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, that's it. It is a wonderful passage don't you agree? = ) Thanks so much! --Cameron (T|C) 10:47, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Erasmus at his most charming. He rather grew out of his friendship with Fausto Andrelini, I now discover, thanks to your query.--Wetman (talk) 19:57, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

In the Balanced Budget article the variables associate with the equations shown for Balanced Budget Multiplier are not indicated. What article names the variables for these equations? Also the article claims that the government does not add money to the economy under a balanced budget, which is false although the government is no longer a source of income for lenders. -- Taxa (talk) 16:38, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]


They are mostly standard economic variables that most normal people would never have heard of. Y is Income/Output (same thing), T is taxes, I is investment, G is government expenditure, delta represents "change in"... I guess that's all I can tell you for sure. I could only guess what the alpha or "c" are meant to represent.
You're right that much of the article is unclear and doesn't represent a full view. In many places it's plain wrong. The only way a government can add to, or subtract from, the money supply is literally printing it, or performing "open market transactions" (the buying and selling of bonds), which the Fed does in the US. I think what he means is that the government doesn't "contribute to aggregate demand" which is a macro concept from Keynesian economics. State and local governments cannot add to the money supply. Nor can businesses or individuals (banks KINDA can, by adjusting reserve ratios, but that isn't creating or destroying money, it's just adjusting the "velocity" of the money)
What the writer is trying to get at, I think, is fiscal policy and I think you'll find more relevant and correct information there.
Balanced budget is a bad article
24.68.228.182 (talk) 21:42, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Don't trust any article with an exclamation mark in it!!!!! 24.68.228.182 (talk) 21:46, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
That's part of why I wanted to check out equations it lists. While I have you on the phone... :-) another thing I am looking for are the equations that relate the variables shown in the chart entitled "Circulation in Macroeconomics" in the Macroeconomics article. -- Taxa (talk) 22:12, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]


I'll do my best. Alright, labour supply and labour demand are self-explanatory, and determine the 'wage rate'
Anything to do w/ T = taxes, to TH = consumer/household taxes while TC = corporate taxes
TR will be transfer payments which are usually made for equity's sake. So things like federal money that is redistributed to states or provinces (common in canada) which then goes to work in social services that benefit the households and corporations. I always think of transfer payments as being 'net' with taxes, if for no other reason than they are usually provided as income tax credits for ease of distribution. Except for services and goods of course (roads, schools etc.)
S = saving so SH is household savings and SG = gov SC = corporate and SF = foreign. It's the excess wealth that those entities have. They usually 'lend' the wealth out via a financial market, whether it be debt instruments (bonds), equities (stocks) or whatever. They are just ways that people who have excess income can provide that income to someone else who has productive uses for it.
I(nvestment) is the process by which that above savings is converted into "capital". capital is anything that makes labour or land more productive. Tools, machines, factories, even software etc. It usually takes an investment (from savings) to form capital, which in turn increases incomes (and hopefully leads to more investment and more capital and more income and on and on...)


the "commodity market" would be best split into three categories for "Capital", "Factor" and "Goods/Services" markets. Factors are the inputs used to make other things and goods/services are the things that people want. I already mentioned capital (notice there is a big difference between financial capital - money and economic capital - things that improve productivity)
so yeah. people, corporations and governments consume things out of those markets, which is the last bit. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.68.63.88 (talk) 04:09, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Let me log in and start signing these NByz (talk) 04:11, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Whoops, you wanted equations. Well some common and important ones are Y (income/output) = C (consumption) + I (Investment) + G (government spending, less taxes) + NX (net exports). This dictates overall income/output.
There are tons of ways the rest could be interpretted. Usually S = I (savings = investment) is important. uhhhh NX = X - IM. ummm these are definitional equations, but there are a lot of these lines that just represent how things flow. There are lots of academic papers and works that try to estimate how one has related to another in the past, but there are no rules. It's just important to know the linkages so if a policy maker makes a change in one area, she'll see how things flow outwards around it. NByz (talk) 04:17, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, that's what I am getting at... equations to create a basic online or Excel interactive simulation model for a Circulation in Macroeconomics chart:
Circulation in Macroeconomics
-- Taxa (talk) 21:32, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]


I guess you could look at each box and see what flows into or out of them, and just add them up. It would have to be for a set time period, like "1 year" or something.
So for Government you have [government surplus or deficit] = Th + Tc - TRh - TRc - i(D) [interest on debt] - G [government expenditures on goods and services]
For Households you would have [Household Net Savings or Deficit] = Ls*W + i(S) [interest on net savings(or debt)] + TRh - C - Th (edit: Also, in a very real way, government expenditures, G, act as income to households and corporations. Income referring to the flow of services that they get from the goods/services that government provides. Economists like to think of things in terms of goods and services, not money, in contexts like this. Money and financial investments just represent claims on future goods and services)
Labour Markets would be tricky because W = F(Ld) = F(Ls) (wage equals labour demand function of quantity demanded equals labour supply function of quantity supplied) (wage is the point where demand equals supply). Maybe it would be easier to avoid "stock" variables like "wage rate" altogether and stick with time-dependent flow variables like "total wages paid in the period" (sorry if i'm complicating this too much (with all the brackets()and additions and stuff))
It would be hard to find data estimates for the same specific time period for all of these things, but you could do it.
A picture probably does it nicer than numbers though 24.68.228.182 (talk) 21:48, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
First, thanks for fully explaining the details by fully defining the variables. This makes it far easier and faster to model in Excel which I can eventually restructure to resemble or mimic the Circulation of macroeconomics diagram.
For the Workforce (labor) Market I've so far simply made new variables for the F(Ld) and the F(Ls) functions and conditionally set W to zero until they are equal. That way I can even use a random number generator to see how changes in their values effect the other values.
I assume then that I just follow this add and subtract pattern for Corporation, Financial Market, etc.
If you would rather add these yourself here then please do so since if there are additional complications I need to know them in order to produce a valid model. -- Taxa (talk) 00:58, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Also after having now created the model I can see how to setup a debit/credit column for each of the entities and enter each side of a link as in a convention balance sheet. Very interesting. -- Taxa (talk) 03:14, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
However, since Ls and Ld are not monetary quantities but rather hours, whereas wages are in dollars, it seems that there should be a monetary wage payment link between household and corporation and household and government and household and household or am I missing something? -- Taxa (talk) 03:58, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, it would probably be better to use something like "total wage receipts" or something like that. That kind of information (or estimates) might be available from agency that controls income or payroll taxes in the country you're looking at. NByz (talk) 07:08, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

In the spreadsheet below all values were set to one and the formulas were replaced by equation results(top row). Some to the cell values have their signs reversed or may be in the wrong column.

The Labor or Workforce Market values and formulas are unfinished since I did not know if showing labor as both hours and dollars was correct for macroeconomics. Obviously a lot more things can be added like debt and interest on debt for government, corporations, household and foreign entities. -- Taxa (talk) 05:59, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Spreadsheet Model

  =Th+Tc-TRh-TRc-iDg-G =Ls*W+iSh+TRh-Cx-Th =Y+TRc-Ld-Tc-Sc =X-IM-Sf =Ls+Ld-W =Sh+Sg+Sc+Sf-I =I+G+IM+Cx-Y-X
  Agents Markets
  symbol value Government Household Corporation Foreign Labor Financial Commodity
  surplus/deficit net savings or deficit net savings or deficit import/export surplus/deficit capital goods and services
  incoming outgoing incoming outgoing incoming outgoing incoming outgoing incoming outgoing incoming outgoing incoming outgoing
Income                            
Yield Y 1.00         1                 -1
                             
Transfer Payments                            
Household Transfer Payments TRh 1.00   -1 1                    
Corporate Transfer Payments TRc 1.00   -1     1                
Labor                        
Labor Supply (hrs) Ls 1.00       -1         1        
Labor Demand (hrs) Ld 1.00         1         -1        
function of labor quantity supplied ($) F(Ls) 1.00       -1         1          
function of labor quantity demanded ($) F(Ld) 1.00         1         -1        
Wage rate W 1.00     1             -1        
Taxes                          
Household Taxes Th 1.00 1     -1                    
Corporate Taxes Tc 1.00 1         -1                
Savings                          
Household Savings Sh 1.00       -1             1      
Government Savings Sg 1.00   -1                 1      
Corporate Savings Sc 1.00           -1         1      
Foreign Savings Sf 1.00               -1     1      
interest on savings I(S) 1.00 1                   1      
Debts                          
interest on debt i(D) 1.00   -1                 1      
Spending                          
Government Spending G 1.00   -1                     1  
Investment I 1.00                       -1 1  
                         
Imports IM 1.00               -1         1
Exports X 1.00             1             -1
                             
Consumption Cx 1.00       -1                 1  
                             
                             



Spreadsheet Model Discussion

Wow, thorough! I don't have time to get to fully understand all of this before going to bed, but I noticed a couple of things.
Like you mentioned above, it may be easier to use W="total wage receipts" for this kind of thing. It's called a "flow" variable, and it requires a period of time (there has to be a time-range, not just a single time, which would be a "stock" variable).
Also, I'm not sure if it's the case right now, but everything that is "debited" to one agent's "asset account" has to be credited from another. Like I said, I don't fully understand your model yet, but it's just a good rule. In the case of something like "interest on savings", you have it accruing fully to government. Make sure the model can accept a Savings "% to consumers", "% to government" "% to corporations"
The first thing the spreadsheet exposed was the fact that the links between entities are in fact merely debits and credits or surpluses and deficits or incoming and outgoing values shown as a link on a diagram. Once I realized that this is the way the links should be treated it was down hill from there. The spreadsheet also exposed that savings, debt and their respective interests are unique links between each agent and the financial market so that problem is also solved. -- Taxa (talk) 11:57, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Make sure not to treat the "markets" (financial, commodity and labour [and maybe factor goods and services later if you want]) the same as the "agents (government, household, corporate and foreign) If there is 10 dollars of savings in the economy, it can only be owned by, say, $7 from households, $1 from government and $2 from corporations (no double-counting), but once you get into financial and goods markets, each dollar of value may have circulated through them a dozen times (both because of transactions going back and forth, and value being created through production).
I've regrouped the columns according to markets and agents. I would expect percentage of savings for each agent to be a value calculated from the ratio of each contributor to the total amount. -- Taxa (talk) 11:57, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Which brings me to my last point for tonight. I mentioned the thing about not doublecounting savings above. Well it's not exactly true. There is a little thing called the [Money Multiplier] (I don't understand why that doesn't have it's own article... it's pretty important.)
The money multiplier a result of the way banks work. What normally happens is that a person makes a deposit at a bank, then the bank tries to make money by lending those funds to someone else at a higher rate. Which means that a person's money isn't literally sitting in a bank somewhere, it's been lent out. Banks only keep enough of a reserve (the "reserve ratio") to handle the immediate needs of depositors wanting to get at their money. So even though the original depositor still has a claim to that wealth, the actual funds are being used by someone else. The actual amount of money (number of 'bank notes' or M0) never increases, but the 'money supply' (measured by M1, M2, M3, or the claims to money (see [| Money supplies around the world]) has increased. Effectively, there is more money in the system. The best part is, once person who took out the loan gets the money, she will usually deposit it in the bank too, so the effect is quite large.
I'm somewhat familar with the money multiplier effect but I am not sure it this is where the velocity of money applies, in other words if a borrower puts the money right back in the bank and it is lent out again and redeposited and so on and there are numerous claims on it over the week end then if on a Monday when everyone's projects begin if the removal of the money from the bank by the borrowers at high speed to go shopping is what the measure of velocity is. -- Taxa (talk) 12:09, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Hmmmm the velocity of money is the way that the total amount of money in the economy relates to the total value of transactions in the economy. Let's say that there is a two person economy with $100 in "money supply" and a whole bunch of goods that each person has. If no transactions are made, the velocity of money is zero. If person one buys $50 worth of goods from person two, the velocity is .5 ($50 of transactions / $100 of money supply). If person one sells that $50 of goods back to person one ($100 worth of transactions / $100 money supply), the velocity of money is 1. If they buy and sell another batch of goods ($50 ea way) the velocity is 2 ($200 in transactions / $100 of money supply) If the two of them buy and sell things back and forth over and over, they could get the velocity of money way up there. It's not really the same as the reserve ratio or "multiple deposit expansion" (which is a better term than "money multiplier"), although a higher reserve ratio makes it harder to get a high velocity. NByz (talk) 16:10, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
For some countries, like China, that maintain a currency peg that they have to honour (to the USD), increasing or decreasing the required reserve ratio is the only way that they can influence the economy via monetary policy.
I sort of understand this. -- Taxa (talk) 12:09, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
This is another reason why economists like to avoid thinking about money too much when they are looking at flows like this. But you've got the right idea. I'm I've said too much NByz (talk) 07:36, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, have a nice evening and a restful sleep and hope to discuss this with you again soon. -- Taxa (talk) 12:09, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Getting back to the original question it looks like there might be an advantage to the Government having a net surplus rather than a deficit and that there might be a high probability that the argument made in the Balanced budget article would no longer apply under the circumstances of a net surplus. -- Taxa (talk) 14:13, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Holland Marsh Road Act - I cannot find anywhere, does anyone have this?

Greetings,

I live and work in the Holland Marsh and am curious where I can find more information on the referenced Holland Marsh Road Act as referred to in Wikipedia's description of the Holland Marsh. I have "googled" for the said legislation but have come up empty handed. I think it is an important link for Wikipedia to provide, granted that the information is available. If it is not, then this information should be removed from the description so as not to create frustration and confusion. However, I hope you have more on the subject.

Foudn referencec here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holland_Marsh

I hope you can help, we have a stakeholders meeting in the Marsh next week and this woulD be helpful.

Thank you kindly,

Sarah —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pucksgem (talkcontribs) 18:05, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It's worth noting that the final paragraph of Holland Marsh is an out & out rant. I'm not sure it qualifies as a reliable source. Meanwhile I've had a good hunt around various Canadian websites and found nothing. Very odd. --Tagishsimon (talk) 22:16, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Moved it to talk page because reads like unverified allegations. Hope that's okay. Julia Rossi (talk) 01:44, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]


June 12

people from Arab cities

What do you call people from Abu Dhabi, Algiers, Amman, Baghdad, Beirut, Cairo, Moroni, Djibouti city, Kuwait City, Khartoum, Manama, Damascus, Nouakchott, Rabat, Tunis, Riyadh, San'a, Doha, Mogadisho and Muscat? In Arabic, I mean like for example Saddam Hussein al-Tikriti. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.64.52.208 (talk) 01:56, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Well not all of those cities are Arab or Arabic-speaking, but the ones that are would follow the same pattern as Tikrit: Ammani, al-Jaza'iri (for Algiers), Baghdadi, al-Qahirati (for Cairo), Kuwaiti, Dimashqi (for Damascus), Rabat, Tunisi, Riyadhi, Sanaa'i, Dawhati (for Doha), Muscati. I'm not sure abou Abu Dhabi, it would probably be th same since it ends in a long yaa. (Or would any of these take -iyya endings?) Adam Bishop (talk) 03:17, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
-iyya is feminine or abstract. The "-i" suffix is known in Arabic grammar as the "nisba" suffix, and in traditional Christian Bible criticism as the "gentilic" suffix... AnonMoos (talk) 05:35, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

cloths

<moved here from talk page> Julia Rossi (talk) 03:19, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
did the viking's wear leather sandles —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.3.200.159 (talk) 19:20, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

They used to wear shoes, according to this and this. What makes you think they wore sandals? --Dr Dima (talk) 06:28, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The Vikings mostly lived in climates that are cool or downright cold for most of the year. Sandals would not have been very sensible and therefore wouldn't have been worn much. Some Vikings were basically merchants, and some of those traded along the Mediterranean or Black Seas in warmer climates. No doubt one of those Vikings wore sandals at some point, but they were probably an exception. Marco polo (talk) 17:06, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
There is an interesting article on the net, here, discussing the extent to which the Varangians (Vikings) in Byzantine Empire have switched from their traditional clothes and footwear to the local ones. --Dr Dima (talk) 17:26, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Child porn conundrum

This issue was raised in my legal ethics class. We were discussing sex and the law and the subject came to child pornography. One of my students asked me if viewing child pornography was illegal. Of course, I said yes. But then he asked how anyone could prove that someone looked at child porn. And I said that a law enforcement expert would have to look at the pictures and verify that it is indeed child porn. But here's the problem... wouldn't that guy technically be breaking the law too? But in order to charge him, someone else would have to verify that he looked at child porn, ad infinitum. How does this work? --Goon Noot (talk) 04:38, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I think generally you need a law that acts against something related, like making it illegal to acquire the pornography rather than looking at it. You could also consider the idea that officers of the law get a certain amount of leeway in performing otherwise illegal acts directly associated with doing their job - after all, if you didn't make these distinctions, you'd have to charge an executioner with serial murder! Confusing Manifestation(Say hi!) 05:45, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Well, don't the officers need to "acquire" (confiscate) the child pornography in order to determine its illegality?

It seems like many of the child pornography laws are based on thoughtcrimes, and because of the huge amount of emotion in the topic, there really isn't any chance of reform, is there?--Goon Noot (talk) 06:01, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It's not a condundrum if you look into it. There's a false argument in the original query by the student with an "if...then" clause. The person carrying out the law (enforcer) is not acting "above the law" ie, using or acquiring something illegal for personal use and without the law being applied to them, but is carrying out the law: enforcing prohibition and is trained for that job. The latest sting in Australia netted a former Australian Federal Police (AFP) officer and a former Perth sports administrator with a nice explanation here[18]. So it's more than if you look, then... it's who's looking and for what purpose, and from what position (or as sociologists would say, what space: the personal, the public or from authority). Julia Rossi (talk) 06:58, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Is it any more of a thoughtcrime than conspiracy charges? No illegal action may take place but yet you can be charged with a crime (like planning to kill your wife and purchasing a gun legally). And I don't see why the level of emotion regarding the laws makes this particular crime a thoughtcrime. James Brady being wheeled out to promote gun control seems quite emotional. Families of murder victims pleading for the death penalty seem quite emotional. The fact that people today react with strong emotions says nothing about the prospects of legal reform. Try bringing a Constitutional amendment barring slavery in the early 1800s and there would surely be plenty of emotional outbursts (or giving women the right to vote, etc).--droptone (talk) 11:35, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

There are plenty of similar instances - for example the police are allowed to confiscate illegal drugs or guns in the course of their duties and it's not against the law.

On the other hand I was reading about a case during the building of the Canadian Pacific Railroad. A policeman had confiscated a barrel of illegal whiskey and afterwards taken it home to share with a few friends. The local judge found out and fined him and confiscated the whiskey. Then the policemen arrests the judge for posession of illegal whiskey and locks him up, hauling him before a judge of a different jurisdiction. DJ Clayworth (talk) 14:57, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

So should we stop law enforcement people from risky high-speed car chases of reckless driver, fighting with brawlers, kidnapping kidnappers, spying on spies, killing murderers, and robbing robbers of their ill gotten gains? Edison (talk) 19:08, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

This is what Wikipedia has to say:
To enable a LEA to prevent, detect, and investigate non compliance with laws, the LEA is endowed with powers by its governing body which are not available to non LEA subjects of a governing body...Usually, these powers are only allowed when it can be shown that a subject is probably already not complying with a law.
So should we stop law enforcement people from looking at child pornography, risky high-speed car chases, fighting with brawlers or spying on spies? Not if it's done within their ambit. Kidnapping and robbery are crimes and and killing murderers is a tough one. Zain Ebrahim (talk) 21:04, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
It is important to note that many of the legalities of child pornography are based on the production and possession of child pornography. An investigator assessing the nature of the evidence is not in possession of the child pornography. Rather the legal entity who confiscated it is in possession, and is exempt from that part of the law under the assumption that it is investigating possible crimes of the originator of the evidence. Were the investigating officer to make copies of the illegal pornography for their own 'use', s/he would be putting him/herself at risk of charges, in a similar way to the policeman with the whiskey in Clayworth's example. There have been some police officers charged with possession of child pornography, arrested during sting operations, including one recently in Australia, although I think that police officer obtained the pornography from the internet, rather than from police-internal evidence. Steewi (talk) 00:41, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The most powerful earthquakes...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#The_most_powerful_earthquakes... Moved

Number of state legislators in the history of the U.S.

Any guesses as to the approximate total number of state legislators there have been in the states of the United States since their statehood? --Michael WhiteT·C 17:32, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The number has to be in the hundreds of thousands. My guess would be 400,000 plus or minus 100,000. (My method: Assume roughly 400 legislators per state, average term roughly 8 years per legislator, roughly 50 states for the past 96 years. The biggest assumption is the average term. These assumptions yield 240,000 legislators from 1912 to the present. Before 1912, the number of states progressively decreases as you go back in time. Of course, in 1783, there were only 13 states. So I think that doubling the number from 1912 to the present would yield too high a number, even though the timespan between 1783 and 1912 is greater than the timespan between 1912 and the present. I guessed 400,000 because it is somewhat less than twice the estimated number since 1912.) Marco polo (talk) 20:24, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
No your biggest assumption is 400 legislators. That is far too high. "The General Assembly has 253 members, making it the second-largest state legislature in the nation (behind New Hampshire)" from Pennsylvania General Assembly. "The Nebraska Legislature, with only 49 members, is the smallest legislative body out of the 50 states." from Wyoming Legislature. Rmhermen (talk) 00:19, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Then there's the ones that get reelected a million times. Wrad (talk) 00:22, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the correction, Rmhermen. I should have done more research there! Still, if we cut my estimate by two thirds, we still end up with a number over 100,000. Marco polo (talk) 01:16, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Welfare v. Money to poor people poll

I had heard somewhere some time ago about a poll that showed somewhere around 1/3 of Americans support "expanding welfare" or something to that effect. Meanwhile, another poll (or the same poll?) found that when the wording used was "giving more money to the poor," or something to that effect, support increased to about 2/3 of Americans. Does anyone know where I might find a source for this? --YbborTalk 20:00, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Never mind, looks like I found the source: http://web.syr.edu/~jmhorv01/review1.html --YbborTalk 20:11, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

daumier,honorelihograhs

20:25, 12 June 2008 (UTC)208.111.221.183 (talk)marriedlife huntingandfishing lawandorder publisedbyyourcompanyin1942

wouldlikeinformationonthese lithographs

dorothy

Take a look at these links [19][20] for information about Daumier lithographs. Please note however that this is not a company that publishes prints, it is Wikipedia, the encyclopedia that anyone can edit.--Eriastrum (talk) 21:07, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

"Can't Find It On A Map"

I often hear about how X Percent of Americans (or sometimes a specific sub-set of them) can't find a certain country on a map. Often said country is Iraq. Here are several examples of this:

http://www.cnn.com/2006/EDUCATION/05/02/geog.test/

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/05/0502_060502_geography.html

My question is: What the heck are the showing people when conducting the survey? Is it a completely blank map of the world? A blank map of the middle east? A filled in map with names, and a time limit?

If it's a blank map, do you get partial credit for hitting a contiguous country, but not recognizing the precise shape of Iraq as opposed to Syria?

What does this classic factoid tell us, if anything about Americans? Is finding a country on a blank map a skill usually taught in school? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.218.24.148 (talk) 20:40, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Your second link provides links to the survey's findings, where you can download the full survey (I think - I haven't looked at it), and a test yourself section. Zain Ebrahim (talk) 21:20, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The map in question is shown on page 24. It is a map of the Middle East and surroundings showing borders, and names of bodies of water, but not country names.  --Lambiam 22:33, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I've worked as a substitute teacher in a large urban school district in California, and I've often come in to teach a social studies class in which the teacher has left me 30 copies of a blank map with a list of names on it, with instructions for me to have the students fill in the listed names in appropriate places on the map and to collect them and return them to the teacher's mailbox. So yes, this is a skill usually taught in school. Sometimes this is a quiz; sometimes it's a lesson plan if I come in when the students aren't quite ready for the quiz yet. arkuat (talk) 10:06, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The leading geography textbooks in the United States include quizzes that require students to identify places on blank maps. So it is part of the curriculum, but this kind of skill isn't highly valued in U.S. culture, and so many students don't retain what they briefly learn. Marco polo (talk) 13:30, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I've heard it said (but don't believe it myself) that the US Foreign Policy is the government's way of teaching geography to the Americans. Richard Avery (talk) 13:55, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Social Security fraud

I am researching "Fraud" commited against the Social Security Addmin. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 170.215.38.41 (talk) 21:22, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Good for you! Don't hesitate to post a question here if you have one we may be able to help with.  --Lambiam 22:28, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

How do libraries handle books classified based on different editions of the classification schedule?

How do libraries handle the situation in which different books in their collections were classified based on different editions of the same classification schedule (say Dewey)?

Do they continue to shelf the books based on the originally-assigned classifications, even though changes in the classification schedule would have given some books different classifications? Or do they periodically re-classify (& re-shelf) the books in their collections to reflect changes in the classification schedule? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.162.241.23 (talk) 22:51, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

My university library has books in different collections classified by no less than three systems (Library of Congress, Dewey and Harvard-Yenching) and probably more. If collections are merged, only one classification system would be used, but it is more likely that they would be kept separate so that the difficult job of reclassification is avoided. Thanks to the Library of Congress online catalogue, WorldCat and so on, finding the correct classifications for books in different systems is a lot easier than it used to be. Steewi (talk) 01:03, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
In a standard community library, there is a lot of turnover in the books. So, reclassifying a book isn't really necessary. It will be removed from the collection eventually. In the case where books are retained indefinitely, there is no harm in moving a book to a new stack. Anyone looking for it will find the current location in the catalog and easily find the book. -- kainaw 15:39, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

June 13

Phenomenology vs. Dialectics

How to these two philosophical systems diverge and converge ? 69.157.233.182 (talk) 02:33, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I would be most grateful if a user could please answer the following question: In 1959, an unmarried mother in England decided to hand over her newborn child for adoption - (the father, a non British subject, had left Britain and did not even know that the child existed). The adoption agency found a suitable couple and duly informed the Children’s Department of the Local Authority about the proposed adoption and a Guardian ad Litem was appointed. Suppose the adoption agency had wanted the child to be circumcised . Who would have had to give consent: a) before the Guardian ad Litem was appointed, b) during the period when the Guardian ad Litem was acting (namely, prior to the Court making the Adoption Order) and c) after the Court had made the Adoption Order in favour of the adoptive parents? Thank you. Simonschaim (talk) 12:17, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Sure sounds like a request for legal advice, which the rules for the Reference Desk do not allow anyone to provide. Why do you pose such a question? Edison (talk) 15:27, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

African tribe

I recall seeing a television program some time ago about a tribe of black Americans that defected to Africa to "live forever". They only ate natural foods, exercised daily and just focused on taking care of their individual bodies. What were they called? Is there a wiki article? --Endless Dan 12:39, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

While I don't think a group of African-Americans can be called a "tribe", there have been many moves to go "Back To Africa": see Back-to-Africa movement and Liberia. As for your specific example, it could be the African Hebrew Israelites of Jerusalem who initially moved to Liberia, then on to Israel. Fribbler (talk) 12:47, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for your quick response. It may have been the African Hebrew Israelites of Jerusalem. It was a fasinating story and I always wanted to read more about this group. Are there any other groups similar to them (black or otherwise) that have left the US to form a commune/group/tribe/whatever in another part of the world? --Endless Dan 12:58, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
There was Jonestown. But that didn't end so well at all. Many such "intentional communities" have been formed, but most don't seem to have left their home country: see List of intentional communities, and I suppose kibbutz. Fribbler (talk) 13:04, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

causes and consequences of fortunate or unfortunate actions

Who said of the study of history (or his own work) that its purpose was to determine "the causes and consequences of fortunate or unfortunate actions"? I've done a bit of googling, but it hasn't produced any results. I'm fairly sure it's someone famous, like Gibbon, Burckhardt, Vasari or Thucydides but I can't find a reference in their books. thanks, 203.221.127.19 (talk) 14:56, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Is rape worse than murder?? (Legal)

I have seen that many countries punish a rapist with death and a murderer with jail, fines and lashes but not death (Iran, UAE, etc). Why??. Is rape a worse crime than murder? Thank you a lot. Maru-Spanish (talk) 16:10, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

welfare states

Considering welfare states, are the most successful ones richer, more compassionate, or better organised? I know this involves at least some conjecture and opinion, but often people can provide a lot of meaningful analysis on the humanities desk, so I thought it would be worth seeing what people think. thanks, 203.221.127.19 (talk) 16:24, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]