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September 14

Bat infestation

we have a guava tree in our backyard which is often attacked by bats for its fruits,the problem is that theses bats mess up our wells too. How do we stop this ?( We are also not able to use those fruits either) sumal (talk) 03:06, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

How about hanging mousetraps? DRosenbach ^{(Talk | Contribs)} 03:43, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

In the Philippines I observed local farmers protecting hanging fruit by wrapping each unit in a burlap sack. You might try something similar. I'm not sure if plastic bags would work or not - being airtight might be bad for the development of the fruit. Protect all (or most) of the fruit and the bat food supply is gone. No bat food supply, no more bats. Personally though, bats are awesome. Hard to imagine them fouling a well?!?218.25.32.210 (talk) 05:03, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

The bats are not attacking your tree they are seeking a legitimate supply of food that you are providing. If you are going to grow bat-food then you need to protect it and not harm the bats. Nets, burlap, or other protective measures are available to you. Have you thought of covering your wells with something to prevent the bat excrement from falling in. 86.4.181.14 (talk) 06:23, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

On a related note, please don't harm the bats; they eat cockroaches and other pests!--Leon (talk) 08:43, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

I doubt if the same species eats both fruit and insects. StuRat (talk) 12:13, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Bats are a varied group of animals ranging from the small bats that eat moths and mosquitos which are common in the US, to giant raven sized fruit bats in SE Asia and Australia. I suspect that the OP might be having difficulty with the latter. Googlemeister (talk) 14:42, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

The actual problem is pollution of the OP's well. It is unclear how bats are messing wells but that may have more to do with them living in caves associated with the ground water supply than attraction to a particular fruit tree. The OP is in India where access to fresh water is not universal. Solving that problem may be more than Wikipedia can do. The article Water resources describes the situation. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 18:45, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

I have no expertise on this but have been studying gardening for some time (although in my part of the world we don't have fruit bats). There are two main ways to keep the bats from eating the fruit. 1) Wrap the tree with a covering that keeps the bats out but that allows sunshine, air, and water to get through. The best solution is probably wire mesh, though this could be expensive. On the other hand, it should last for several years. A burlap mesh might be another solution, but I suspect that the bats cold chew through burlap and that it would not last more than one year, especially after a monsoon. 2) Apply chemicals to the tree or keep containers of chemicals around the tree that are not harmful to people but that deter bats. This article suggests that ethanol might work. You could try other chemicals that have a rotten smell. It is probably best to combine this with a wire mesh or other enclosure for the tree to prevent the bats from putting up with the smell, trying a bit of fruit, and learning that the fruit is good despite the smell. As for the well, you need to have it cleaned. There must be people in your area who clean wells. The next step is to cover it so that bats cannot enter it. A hard metal or stone covering would probably be best. Remove the covering only when you want to collect water. If your well is actually a cistern that collects rainfall, then you need a strong metal grate or screen that lets water in but whose openings are too small for bats to pass through. Marco polo (talk) 19:55, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

One more thought on this. After you have the well cleaned and cover the opening to keep bats out, I would recommend that you avoid using the water for drinking for at least a few months. However, I would draw water from the well during that time and use it for cleaning or for watering plants. Drawing water from the well and letting it refill with clean groundwater will help to improve the water quality over a period of months. I recommend having the water tested in a laboratory before you use it for drinking. Even then, you may need to boil it or use solar water disinfection first. Marco polo (talk) 20:04, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

MDF and hardboard

What are the essential differences between MDF and hardboard. I mean is hardboard safer to work with?--79.75.88.222 (talk) 16:05, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

The articles do a decent job of explaining the difference. I'm not sure what 'safer' would be? It will depend on what you are using the wood for as to whether it needs to be a 'medium' (MDF) density or a high (Hardboard) density. ny156uk (talk) 16:39, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Neither are safer, but MDF is generally more visually appealing in situations where the side of the board may show. Additionally, it is more common to find a variety of finishes and veneers on MDF. Depending on your local market, there may be a price consideration when deciding between the twoCaltsar (talk) 16:45, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

well the MDF page mentions hazards from the glue used. The hardboard page does not mention hazards from glue or dust. Should it?--79.75.88.222 (talk) 17:25, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Its ok. just seen that no glue is used in hb, maybe only a bit of resin So its safer IMO--79.75.88.222 (talk) 17:29, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

I suppose that there could be hazards from working with MDF, but those hazards don't seem to have much, if any, solid proof behind them. (The woodshop I worked for used polyurethane MDF which doesn't have formeldahyde in it) On the other hand, many other materials and chemicals used in wood working can be quite hazardous. Many solvents used in finishing sprays are present in much higher concentrations and many small wood shops don't have the room (or money) for a large, properly designed spray booth to contain those chemicals. Also, there are some natural hardwoods that have known health hazards when cut, sanded, or otherwise used in a way that creates large amounts of dust. When referring to the safety of the material, I was implying that the psysical properties of the material didn't cause it to be more or less safe when cutting, sanding, or working with the material as psysical injury is the most common method of harm in a woodshop.Caltsar (talk) 18:15, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Bending hardboard

I have an application where I need to make hardboard cylinders. What is the bast way to form the hb into a cylinder. Do I need to wet it?--79.75.88.222 (talk) 17:57, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

I believe that hardboard becomes more pliable when it is heated in a steam oven and that it will keep its bend when it cools. The water in the oven keeps the temperature from rising high enough to burn the hardboard. I would not advise soaking the hardboard first because that will slow down the heat penetration. I can't quantify to how small a radius you can bend how thick a board this way, so that needs experiment. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 18:30, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

I dont have a steam oven handy so would I be able to do it with a hot air gun instead? And should I wet the hb to create stem with the heat gun?--79.75.88.222 (talk) 00:50, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

There are books devoted to wood bending, and your library may have one. Bending wood into a cylinder can be very hard to do, and certain woods and composites can only bend to a certain radius. Some woods can be bent over a form using clamps and time while others need to use steam and pressure. I don't really work with hardboard at all outside of pegboard, so I do not know how much it can be bent.Caltsar (talk) 18:51, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

You can buy hardboard pre sawn with groves on the reverse to aid bending.--88.109.132.126 (talk) 23:26, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

I thought that was the Bendy MDF (which I have used). Not seen pregrooved hardboard. Whats its tradename?--79.75.88.222 (talk) 23:37, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

d't know--88.109.132.126 (talk) 01:36, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

I once discussed the bending of wood with a professional who made rakes and other bentwood items. He steamed the wood in a metal container large enough to hold it. A heatgun and dry heat would seem useless for the purpose. He said that he "overbent" the object to allow for it to spring back a bit. With grooves cut on the unseen side as 79.75.88.222 described, the heating seems unnecessary, but you do not wind up with full thickness wood. Greenwood should work better than kiln dried lumber company wood. You can form cylinders, chairs, and other shapes bu making a form and laminating thin sheets of hardwood, so that each sheet is thin and easy to bend, and when the glue sets, the assembled wood is like custom plywood in the shape you want, I would try that. See [1], [2], [3], [4], [5]. Edison (talk) 04:21, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

Tracing vehicle ownership in Northern Cyprus

How do I find the owner of a vehicle in Northern Cyprus by it's registration plate. Thx —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pepapooh (talk • contribs) 18:59, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

You could contact the Northern Cyprus Ministry of Public Works and Communications, listed here, though you might need to be able to communicate in Turkish. Marco polo (talk) 19:38, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Ella Cullom

i am doing a family tree, however my great grandmother Ella Cullom(married name in 1910 US census) was raped at an early age(abt 14yrs old)That produced my grandmother Lilly Cullom, in Tenn. Ella, was born abt 1871, i think in Tenn., her mothers name was Sarah the family told me that the guy that raped my great grandmother my have been a doctor that she may have been working for.I am at a lost for trying to find supporting info. Can you offer any help? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.190.195.101 (talk) 20:40, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

I am new at this I forgot to include my email for an answer about my gradmother lilly cullom and greatgrandmother ella cullom, her mother sarah. email add. [email address removed] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.190.195.101 (talk) 20:42, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

I've removed your email address, per the guidelines at the top of this page. People will respond on this page if they have any information. — Matt Eason ^{(Talk • Contribs)} 22:47, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

If the rapist acknowledged paternity, he may be on the birth certificate, which should be available for that period. It's a long shot, but worth checking into. If the rapist was prosecuted, there should be a court record, though that may be difficult to track down, and there probably would be newspaper reports too. Short of those possibilities, you're probably limited to working with family records such as letters and diaries. John M Baker (talk) 04:40, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

Considering the era, I think it would be highly unlikely that the rapist was prosecuted, or that it would be reported in a newspaper. Matt Deres (talk) 12:39, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

Hopefully the birth certificate says where Lilly Cullom was born, and that should be pretty close to where her mother was working. Perhaps there were doctor registration records available, or the doctor could be recorded by occupation on the census. May be there were advertisements or the county may have had records on the use of premises. You should be able to narrow down the possibilities. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 13:57, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

Birth certificates may not exist - they are a fairly modern document. Tennessee birth records only go back to 1908 and the state only has copies from 1914 (older ones are county documents) Some large cities have older birth records though. See [[6]] 75.41.110.200 (talk) 18:33, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

Ancestry.com (subscription) is your best bet. They have the 1910 census, showing Ella Cullom, described as "mulatto," age 39 in the 1910 census, Civil District 6, Overton Tennessee, married to "Mack (black, age 61)" with Lilly (24), 6 younger Culloms, and 6 children from the Woods and Alred families. It says Lilly was born in Tennessee. It says Ella and Lilly worked as laundresses, and Mack was a farmer. The 1920 census for the same place has similar info, but does not show Lilly, though it shows 4 Cullom children and the husband's parents, age 85 and 80. So find Ella with a different last name, somewhere around 1876, to learn more about Lilly's origin. Ella should be somewhere in the 1880 census. In the rural south, people were not that mobile, and the people in the next farm were often relatives, so Ella might have been a neighbor's child. If it had been Ella's parents living with them in 1920, the search would be easier. Edison (talk) 14:56, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

Going back to the 1880 census for Tennessee, I searched for "Ella," black, born about 1871 with mother "Sarah" and found several possibilities, but none in Overton with the right age, so you could search and branch out: Ella Bell, Shelby TN born about 1871 parents Looet and Sarah Bell, but this is 300 miles from Overton. There is also Ella Cannon, born about 1871, parents Jack and Sarah, in Shelby TN (also 300 miles away). There is Ella Moore, born about 1871, parents Pleas and Sarah, in Marshall, Tennessee (150 miles away). There is Ella Frierson, (age 10) parents James and Sarah, in Davidson TN (100 miles away). There is Ella Futrell (age 8) parents Shad and Sarah in Madison, TN (100 miles away). There is Ella Wilson, age 8, mother Sarah, in Knoxville, TN (120 miles away). Lots more as the age match becomes less exact (info in censuses such as age was often put down incorrectly, since the census taker might have just asked a neighbor or made it up just to complete his route). Edison (talk) 15:21, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

The Mormons might be a place to look also. They don't just gather data about Mormons, but about everyone, presumably for the benefit of converts. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 03:20, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

September 15

Anamation studio jobs

I have a question. I am creating a list of jobs for an animation studio.. What jobs are there?
Story Board -
Character Design -
Object Design -
Environment Design -
Audio Effects -
Audio Voice Overs -
Accdude92 (talk) (sign) 01:09, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

(homework?) Try looking in the Occupational Outlook Handbook from the Bureau of Labor Statistics. Find the entry for "Animators" and it will give you a job description, salary, and such, but most importantly, it should have a list of related jobs. As with most government publications, it's a huge book (literally about 1500 pages of microscopic print) but one hell of a resource. Xenon54 / talk / 01:18, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

Not homework, I swear. Just a question a friend has.Accdude92 (talk) (sign) 01:29, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

I work for a video game company - our animation department consists of:

• Environment Artists - who model 3D objects other than the actual animated characters.
• Character Artists - who model the geometric meshes for the characters.
• Texture Artists - who specialise in painting the surface materials of the objects.
• Technical Artists - who seek new techniques for the other artists to use in daily production.
• Shader authors - who write software that describes the subtle processes involved in how objects and characters look.
• Riggers - who place imaginary bones inside the characters and connect them together with handy controls ("rigging") such that the animators can use a single control to (for example) make the character bend over without having to move each bone by hand.
• Animators - who use the rigs to create the actual motion.
• MoCap engineers - who run the motion-capture machinery.
• MoCap actors - who wear the suits with the shiney dots on them to act out motion to use as a starting point for naturalistic animation.
• Lighting engineers - who place the lighting into the 3D scene.
• Designers - who arrange the objects produced by the artists to make full scenes.
• Software developers and maintainers - who program the computers for making pretty pictures.

And - story boarders, concept artists, an army of quality assurance people - people who keep the IT infrastructure running smoothly, build engineers, asset managers who keep track of where all of the individual models are stored and make sure that they are all QA'ed, etc. Subject matter experts. Purchasing department. People who'se job is to work with cheap overseas outsourcing (mostly for 'background' characters and environment art). There may be AI engineers - specialists in things like fight or dance choreography. Then you have directors, producers and other management layers. We have a 'scrum master' who keeps track of hours worked and progress made and who collects data to estimate the cost of future work. Human Resources, Catering, Janitors. There may also be musicians, foley artists, sound editors. Lawyers...lots of lawyers!

However, in most small companies (such as the one I work for) - there is considerable overlap between these roles. When I started at my job a year ago, all of these jobs were shared between just 15 people! We're up to maybe 60 people now...but there is still a lot of overlap.

There is a considerable range of skills, responsibilities and pay scales between these people. A programmer can easily earn twice what an artist will bring in - who in turn could be earning twice what a QA person would get.

SteveBaker (talk) 02:28, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

Watch the credits at the end of any recent animated feature film. By the time all the jobs and names have rolled up the acreen you will probably be sitting in an empty cinema but you may also have noted some regular names in the industry. I used to do this in the Golden Age of American animation and remember the name Mel Blanc appearing after almost every cartoon. (Add voice actor(s) to the list.) Cuddlyable3 (talk) 13:06, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

I doubt many companies keep a voice actor on-staff. For starters, there generally isn't enough work to keep them busy for more than a few weeks a year. We use short-term contracts for voice actors. At Midway, the programmers and artists often acted all of the minor parts. I'll never forget the time - soon after I got my first game programming job when my desk was situated just outside one of our conference rooms. One day, I'm sitting there, minding my own business - when this enormous ruckus starts up inside the conference room...there is an incredible amount of really vicous swearing and cursing and calling someone the worst things imaginable. I couldn't concentrate - so I wandered off to the lounge area to play some pinball. About an hour later, I see one of our managers and someone who I didn't recognise going into the conference room - and again - a HUGE bust-up. Tremendous arguments. I'm beginning to dread having meetings with this manager - he clearly has a way of upsetting people beyond reason! Of course it turned out that they were interviewing voice actors...but it had me convinced! In general, the audio folks are a very small team compared to programmers and artists. Probably just one or two percent of the creative staff. SteveBaker (talk) 01:29, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

any U.S citizens in the British line of succession

are any of the people in line to be the next British king or queen U.S. citizens? how far along?—Preceding unsigned comment added by Payneham (talk • contribs) 02:41, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

See Line of succession to the British throne. David Cook is American, though he is not the first American in line. No, of course he would not become king of the US. Algebraist 02:53, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

The US doesn't have a king or queen. See President of the United States. Dismas|^(talk) 02:59, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

It may not have a King or Queen, but it did once have an Emperor... --Jayron32 03:53, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

With every bit as much authority and reason as Norton had, Garfield Goose claimed to be "king of the United States". Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 09:48, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

the line of succession does not have nationalities or citizenship. that is my question. who is american on the list? Payneham (talk) 04:00, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

• Our list runs some 1617 people long (not counting people who are listed on that page, but are inelligible to inherit). There are undoubtedly some Americans there, but many may be private citizens, and may not have much to write a Wikipedia article about them. Perhaps someone so dedicated could assign nationalities to all 1617 people, but it does not appear to have been done yet. --Jayron32 04:10, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

And our list isn't close to being complete. Algebraist 04:18, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

There is a much longer list here which goes up to 4973. Hut 8.5 13:48, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

That list contains a number of people who are ineligible due to Catholicism, and is out of date. It does claim to have been complete when compiled, though. Algebraist 18:37, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

I've found an American on the list: Catherine Oxenberg. Hut 8.5 18:27, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

I believe anyone in the line of succession is entitled to British citizenship, so I expect if someone that wasn't British became monarch they would choose to become a British citizen. I don't know if that would involve renouncing any other citizenships (it may depend on what the other citizenship is - I don't believe an adult can have duel US/British citizenship [my cousin did until she turned 18 and had to renounce her British citizenship]). It may even be a requirement to assume the throne - I would have to look that up. --Tango (talk) 19:09, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure that's not true. United States nationality law#Dual citizenship says dual citizenship is accepted in the US which has always been my understanding. Naturalising citizens (which doesn't apply to your cousin) are required to technically annouce all former citizenships but most countries which allow dual citizenship ignore this (those who don't also don't care, they'll cancel your citizenship whatever the case). The UK since 1949 doesn't care at all British nationality law#Dual nationality and dual citizenship although British subjects and protected persons are treated differently. If your cousin was entitled to British citizenship but not registered and never lived in the UK for any real period of time then it's possible they lost their rights when they turned 18 although I'm not sure about that (it probably varies depending on several factors including time period). Mind you, if you don't live in the US I can understand people wanting to renounce U.S. citizenship particularly if they live in a country without a double taxation agreement or want to have the freedom to live in such countries. AFAIK, the US is one of the few countries that does tax their citizens who aren't living in the US as mentioned in Taxation in the United States#Federal income tax. Nil Einne (talk) 20:18, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

BTW in terms of the citizenship thing, while it would probably be a hiderance in this modern world (although anyone from outside the UK and heck, anyone that far down the line of succession is going to have major issues) I don't believe there's any real requirement. I was thinking of this earlier but didn't post. Unlike with e.g. the Catholic thing, I doubt it's really an issue. Traditionally it wasn't that uncommon for the monarch to originate from elsewhere. And more importantly perhaps British citizenship means being subject to and swearing allegiance to the monarch. Technically I think it's questionable whether the reigning monarch can even be called a British citizen. And it's questionable if the monarch can actually commit treason against themselves (a queen consort can) so it's not as if you have to worry about the monarch commiting treason because of their split loyalties. Perhaps an argument would be made that such a monarch would not fulfill their duties to their people but that's about it. As I said, I'm not saying it wouldn't be a big problem nowadays, just that I think it's easy to understand why there's probably no technical requirement. Nil Einne (talk) 20:18, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

The concept of "citizenship" is well beneath the monarch. Its the sort of stuff that commoners need to worry about. In a monarchy, the concept of citizenship is closely tied to the concept of "subjectship", and the idea that the monarch is a subject of himself is patently rediculous. The monarch just is and doesn't worry himself with the day-to-day silliness of what his citizenship status is. Heck, they don't even worry about last names or stuff like that. These sort of paper-pushing bureaucratic issues are simply not taken into account in succession law. There have been many British monarchs who were not residents or subjects or citizens of Britain, it has never been a requirement to become King or Queen, which is, after all, an inheritance issue, and such issues are not based on nationality at all. Could not a Briton name an American as a benefactor of his will? Cannot an American descendent inherit a title of Peerage? An American inheriting the throne should be no different. --Jayron32 21:20, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

Indeed, what with the historical encouragement of intermarriages between royal houses, there are quite a number of quite notable non-Britons in the line of succession. The King of Norway is number 63, Princess Margarita of Romania is 86, the Hereditary Prince of Yugoslavia is 95, there's a Grand Duchess of Russia at 112, the King of Sweden at 193, the Queen of Denmark at 222, the Crown Prince of Greece at 237.... TenOfAllTrades(talk) 15:19, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

So it would appear that nothing short of a thermonuclear world war 3 would result in getting all the way down to an American then? Googlemeister (talk) 16:18, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

Perhaps now, but the succession is highly fluid. Given that the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th on the list are male and single, all it'd take is a single intercontinental Hayden Panettiere to reorder the top of the table radically. -- 87.113.10.108 (talk) 17:58, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

Or a deadly pandemic affecting only those with questionably structured chins. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 06:10, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

Article I, section 9 (last clause), of the Constitution of the United States forbids anyone holding an office of trust or profit under the United States from accepting without the consent of Congress, "any present, emolument, office, or title, of any kind whatever, from any king, prince or foreign state." So any letter carrier, Social Security clerk or census-taker, let alone a high-ranking civil or military officer, might conceivably have a problem, although I haven't read the enacting legislation (if there is any). —— Shakescene (talk) 06:01, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

I suspect that if a U.S. mailman got a letter notifying him that he had just inherited the throne of England, he would probably figure he could give up the postal job. Unless he really liked delivering mail and said, "No, thank you," to that cushy position. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 06:08, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

Well, obviously. Probably even if he or she were Undersecretary of Commerce or a major-general in the Armed Forces of the U.S. But the phrasing in Article I, section 9, doesn't make it clear what happens if the title is conferred on someone who's holding an office of trust or profit under the U.S. Technically, I think, one would accede to the British throne upon the death or abdication of the reigning monarch, which could occur in the middle of your working day, although it would be easy enough to leave the civilian service of the U.S. (or perhaps get the necessary special bill through Congress) before the coronation (a little harder with a military post). And in theory, the enacting legislation could punish violations far more severely than just discharging you from U.S. government service. But I guess the operative Constitutional words are "accept of"; you could accede, I suppose, to the Throne before or without accepting it. —— Shakescene (talk) 06:53, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

Defo had a royalty ruling over america you wern't always independant :PChromagnum (talk) 06:25, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

Couldn't even a US General, if he were made king of England just leave his army post without legal consequences simply because he would have gained diplomatic immunity? Googlemeister (talk)

A person who accedes to the throne cannot not accept it. They may not like being the monarch, but they are the monarch nevertheless, because the law has made them the monarch. If they don't want it, they have to ask the UK Prime Minister to submit a bill to the parliament to change the law so that they are deemed to have abdicated. They will still appear in all future lists of UK monarchs showing them as the monarch for whatever short period of time they reigned. If they got to be next in line, and made it clear they were not interested, the law would probably be changed to exclude them before they ever got to the point of acceding. -- JackofOz (talk) 18:45, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

So the first sentence is incorrect. But they aren't supposed to just refuse to show up, they're supposed to go through a formal process of abdication. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 19:09, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

They can certainly refuse to show up. They can't be physically forced to leave Dry Gulch if they don't want to. The only formal process of abdication is the submission of the abdication bill to the parliament, the parliament passing the bill, and the monarch signing it into law (Royal Assent). That signature on the bill is their effective instrument of abdication, not whatever other document they may choose to sign, because a UK monarch cannot unilaterally abdicate. The only way they can leave the post is to give Royal Assent to the bill of abdication. That signature can be done anywhere; it doesn't have to happen in some royal palace in Britain. -- JackofOz (talk) 19:25, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

pancreatic cancer.

what is the pancreatic cancer? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.98.156.25 (talk) 09:45, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

Read the article Pancreatic cancer. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 09:49, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

Side note: After I posted the above, I learned of the passing of Patrick Swayze from that form of cancer. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 23:36, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

Herbal Remedies

Are there any proven herbal remedies to help someone quit smoking?LVledic (talk) 13:26, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

"Proven" is a very tricky term in these contexts, as the placebo effect is quite powerful, and proof of causation is difficult to establish. However, our article on smoking cessation notes some herbal treatments (without statement to efficacy) and herbal tobacco replacements (likewise). — Lomn 13:44, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

In the US, herbal remedies do not have to be tested by the Food and Drug Administration. Therefore, you may have a hard time finding any credible data from the US. See also Herbalism. Dismas|^(talk) 13:45, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

bicycle use

Are there any countries that require a license to operate a bicycle, or that disallow one from using a bicycle on a road under certain conditions (presumably they are not allowable on US Interstate highways)? Googlemeister (talk) 15:14, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

A Google search for "bicycle license" finds that licensing the bicycle (as opposed to licensing the rider) is quite common -- this easily fulfills your second criterion. Please consider such basic research in the future; you'll frequently get an answer far more swiftly than by posting here. — Lomn 16:02, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

I think Googlemeister has been around the reference desks long enough to know the benefits and drawbacks of asking a question here ;) TastyCakes (talk) 16:07, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure there are a whole lot of roads in Amsterdam where you wouldn't be allowed to use a bicycle, what with the vast network of bike lanes right next to the roadways. Franamax (talk) 20:54, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

And per Sec. 185 (2) of the Ontario Highway Traffic Act, it's certainly possible for a municipality to restrict bike riders on "highways" within their jurisdiction, though I'm not aware of a particular example. Onatrio also has a pretty impressive list of things you can't do on a bike [7], including riding the wrong-way on a one-way street. Does that meet your criterion? Franamax (talk) 20:59, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

Actually, I don't think there's a blanket ban on bicycles on the interstate. In California, at most freeway entrances (interstate or otherwise) there's a sign that says "Pedestrians, equestrians, and bicycles prohibited" (I could have the order wrong). But if you're headed north on I-5 coming off the Grapevine, as you reach the valley floor and the speed limit goes from 65 to 70, you'll see a sign that says "all bicycles must exit".

Now, admittedly, by strict logic, this does not imply that bicycles are permitted south of that sign, but by legal logic, I think it does (though I'm not a lawyer). See exception that proves the rule? --Trovatore (talk) 21:09, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

Here in the UK, bicycles (and some other things - horses, mopeds, pedestrians, carts, etc) are prohibited from motorways. I have also heard of the police being able to apprehend you if you cycle whle drunk. In general, I believe much of the Highway Code also applies to cyclists. That said, there is no bicycle license or insurance requirement, so quite what sanction the police or law could apply is unclear to me (though I wish they found a way to clamp down on cyclists ignoring traffic lights and pedestrian crossings, perhaps with some stiff fines :-) Astronaut (talk) 22:29, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

I heard the other day that being arrested in the UK for cycling while drunk can result in points on your car license if you have one. 93.97.184.230 (talk) 07:29, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

Not true. What motoring offence are you guilty of? --Phil Holmes (talk) 13:55, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

I don't know much about the principles of UK highway law, but in California you would be in violation of the California Vehicle Code, specifically a moving violation, and so it makes sense to me that points could be assessed on your license. Whether they are or not, I don't really know, but I kind of suspect they are. The key principle is that a bicycle is a vehicle, even though not a motor vehicle; the rules for bicycles are mostly the same as the rules for cars, and completely different from the rules for pedestrians. --Trovatore (talk) 20:27, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

Relevant UK laws are here. "Riding a bicycle while unfit through drink" (Road Traffic Act 1988) appears to be the one. It's a separate offence to be "Drunk in charge of a motor vehicle". AlmostReadytoFly (talk) 07:40, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

I'm fairly sure that most freeways are off-limits to those things here, as well. Exceptions are apparently made for some specific stretches where there is no practical alternative route. Does that not happen in England too? You might want to check (I'd bet that most people here would assume you can't drive a bicycle on any part of Interstate 5). --Trovatore (talk) 02:22, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

I don't think we have exceptions like that, no. But then, motorways having only come about in the 60s and later, I think it's assumed that there will still be a non-motorway route to anywhere you might want to go. The only exception I can think of is motorway service stations (I'm envisaging young workers in McDonalds or whatever who don't have a car) but even there they often have an access road if there's a non-motorway road nearby for it to connect to. 93.97.184.230 (talk) 07:33, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

Most service stations (maybe all) in the UK have a local access road as well as a motorway link. Up until about 15 years ago you could often use these as "unofficial" exits, but now they seem to have card-operated barriers. -- Q Chris (talk) 08:06, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

There are a few stretches on freeways (including interstate highways) in the United States on which bicycle traffic is allowed on the shoulders. Typically these are stretches where there is no nearby non-freeway road, particularly going over bridges and through mountain passes. This is most common in empty parts of the western United States, where the pre-freeway local road was simply converted to a freeway, since it would have been very expensive to construct a freeway alongside the local road, and there is little need for a local road since there are no homes or workplaces along that stretch. The I-5 through the Grapevine is one such example. I-93 through Franconia Notch is another. Marco polo (talk) 14:55, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

I would presume most violations of the highway code by cyclists in the UK would be subject to fines and in some cases may be even prison. At least that's how it would be here in NZ with violations of the road code by cyclists. There may be additional exceptions and requirements (e.g. for signalling, lighting, helmets, cycling abreast). These may not be enforced very often (for example warnings may be given most of the time) but the possibility is there. Is it not the case in the UK that most violations of the highway code by drivers are subject to fines as well? If so I don't really get the relevance of the licensing and insurance part. These allow additional sanctions in the form of a demerit point system and also allow easier identification and easier recording of warnings but aren't essential to the imposition of penalties. Note that while I'm not aware of any actual countries that do it, you don't need licensing to allow you to ban people from cycling if they are repeated violators for example. Obviously the lack of registration and plates off bicycles makes identification difficult if you use some sort of red light camera or whatever but that's different from licensing Nil Einne (talk) 03:06, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

It is a legal requirement to have a light fitted and in use whilst riding a bicycle in the dark in the UK. Can't find the exact Act of Parliament though, sorry. -- Александр Дмитрий (Alexandr Dmitri) (talk) 09:27, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

Pronunciation of name "Kalaw"?

Hi all,

I have to call a potential employer on the phone, and would like to have a better-than-odds chance of pronouncing his name right first time: how would you pronounce "Kalaw?" Would you go for "KAY-law," "KA-law" or "k'LAW?" Any recommendations appreciated! — Sam 76.24.222.22 (talk) 15:37, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

It would help if we knew what nationality he was. Where are you/do you know anything about his potential nationality?Popcorn II (talk) 15:45, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

Nothing, sorry. I assume he's American, and his first name "Gene," but family could be from anywhere. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.24.222.22 (talk) 15:47, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

I got his voice mail, and apparently it's "k'LAOW.' — 76.24.222.22 (talk) 16:17, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

That suggests to me a good strategy, which I may use in future. Wait 'til you're sure the person is not at their phone, call from a number (payphone, friend or parent's phone) unrelated to your own, listen to their voice-mail message. Interesting... Franamax (talk) 20:37, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

That's a strategy I've used before. I have to read lists of names for ceremonies on occasion. If I can't get a hold of them to ask, often their voicemail/answering machine gives me the correct pronunciation.

If you can't do that, it's usually quite polite to ask if it's an exotic seeming name. Steewi (talk) 04:17, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

The consequences of "fixed" American healthcare

I've been thinking... They say that healthcare in the US costs over 15% of its GDP, compared to about 7 to 11% in comparably developed countries. Were this to be magically fixed and the amount spent on health care brought more in line with the rest of the world, what would be the effect on the American economy? Surely many thousands of people would find themselves economically redundant? The defense lawyers without torts to defend doctors from, the insurance salesmen with no-one to insure (or deny insurance?), the pharmaceutical companies no longer selling to over-prescribed patients or limited by government price caps found elsewhere in the world? Have any studies been done on the effect freeing up that 5% of America's GDP would have, both positive and negative? TastyCakes (talk) 18:01, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

If, for example, the U.S. were to entirely nationalize the health care system, there would still need to be a large bureaucracy to run that system; you need actual people, with experience in health care, to staff that bureaucracy, so many (though certainly not all) people from insurance companies would find themselves jobs working for the government. However, none of the current plans actually propose anything like that. The most drastic change being offered on that front is a government run corporation that would sell insurance on the open market in competition with private companies; such a government run insurance company would still be required to be solvent, as it would recieve all of its operating budget from its own revenue. This is the so-called "public option" that is the center of the debate right now. All other plans feature even less drastic changes to the system. So, so far, the biggest change on the table right now is "everything stays the same, except we start a new insurance company". Also, consider that much of the cost of health-care is currently being born by companies like major manufactures (the auto-industry, lets say), who spend up to 1/2 of their annual spending on "legacy costs", basically half of everything a company like Ford spends is spent on health care for retired workers. The arguement is that if the Government picked up that bill, rather than Ford, then Ford could be more competitive with a company like Toyota or Volkswagen, who do not have to pay those costs. So much of the "lost" GDP in healthcare wouldn't disappear, it would transfer to the sorts of industrial jobs we have been bemoaning the loss of for decades. --Jayron32 18:24, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

Right, I understand the changes being suggested are limited in scope. My question is more of a mind experiment of what would happen if the health industry became significantly more efficient, in line with other countries. What if America as a whole spent trillions less on health care and health care related industries. Presumably, the large companies that pick up the bill now would benefit, as would many smaller companies, as would medicare. But also, presumably, all that money was paying somebody. What happens if a huge industry were to become 2/3 or even 1/2 of its current size? Above I tried to identify groups I think would be hurt by increased "efficiency", lawyers, insurers etc, but I may be way off. Who else would be hurt? Where is that money coming from? Medical care has been one of the few growth industries in America for some time now. Would "fixing" the system to severely reign in costs change that? Would unemployment boom? Could America's "unnecessary health care jobs" be part of the reason it has had lower unemployment than Europe over the past decades? TastyCakes (talk) 18:47, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

In the short term there would I presume be some loss of jobs. In the long term, the money has to go some where and it's likely to go some where where it would be more productively spent. At least this is the simplistic capitalist answer. (Any money that's 'wasted' is better spent somewhere else.) In terms of the growth industry/employement point, I don't think it's proves much. As far as I'm aware many developed countries have health care as growth industries. BTW in the magical sense you're describing it's likely a some of the money would come from reduced salaries and profits, including for many medical professionals but also executives, bureaucrats, lawyers etc. (Which will of course sometimes result in loss of jobs.) Also increased effiencies would also in some cases mean just from a redistribution of effort. From what I've read, a fair amount of the current inefficiency comes from stuff like many unnecessary medical tests and operations because insurance is paying for it and they pay per procedure. So you spend less (time and money) per patient but treat more patients. The effect of this would be complex. These people would contribute to the economy. Some of them who would have been unemployable may remain employable. On the other hand there would also be people who may have otherwise died who may end up on the unemployement list. However I think very few politicians are going to say one problem with the proposals is we won't kill so many poor people and so there's more to fight over the remaining jobs. Nil Einne (talk) 19:42, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

"Start a new insurance company" ... in what way is the proposed new insurance company going to be funded out of taxes, or given special privileges in law? If in no way, then why hasn't somebody already started this new insurance company? 213.122.19.130 (talk) 23:09, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

This relates to the Luddite fallacy, though the WP article on that is short and I think parts of it are a bit off target. In short, people would spend their money on other things (say haircuts) and hence there will be more jobs for hairdressers. Hence, there might be problems if the people you mention have a hard time switching to a different industry, but a lot of those competencies seem like "general" business/bureaucracy and should be easy to translate to something else. Jørgen (talk) 20:05, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

A better article to look at might be creative destruction. This kind of thing actually happens all the time. Interestingly, The Economist has an interesting recent piece on Andy Grove's thoughts on how the health-care industry should be more like the computer industry.[8] (email me for a copy if anyone can't see it)

To continue your thought experiment that perhaps the inefficiency of the US healthcare system has led to decreased unemployment (and presumably better use of capital and labour inputs?), take it the other way. If the inefficency has been good, then why not double the size of the sector? Let's set up entire new companies to duplicate the work of all the other companies. Let's do all MRI's twice, hear all lawsuits twice, review all medical bills twice. When you shift the argument to the opposite direction, does it make any sense? If not, then what makes the current size of the sector optimal? Franamax (talk) 20:15, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

If we could do other things more efficiently, such as build cars, then I'm sure nobody would say that was a bad thing, and suggest we didn't do it because of the poor auto workers. No wait, bad example...OK, televisions... DJ Clayworth (talk) 20:21, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

Perhaps the medical lobbyists (the well lubricated Luddites of our time?) would say it was a bad thing? ;) TastyCakes (talk) 20:35, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

I've always wondered about the many American workers who were very very skilled in the design and manufacture of slide rules, and the American capital invested in marking things to great precision on a log scale. What happened to all that? And I remember the great angst as the television industry moved overseas also. Grove describes his own experience as offshore memory-chip manufacturers threatened Intel's original business. Pretty hard to argue that they should have stuck with their original business model, given that Intel turned into one of the most valuable companies in the world after getting out of the memory business. Franamax (talk) 20:31, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

I don't think the healthcare workers or the drug manufacturers will be out of work - when close to 100% of people are properly covered - more of them will seek treatment rather than hoping they'll get better without treatment. What one would hope would happen would be that the workload would shift from critical care and emergency rooms to preventative treatment and early treatment. There was a poll of doctors run just recently and 60-some percent of them were in favor of not just reform - but the "government option" for reform...so they clearly don't think this will harm them economically. SteveBaker (talk) 21:41, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

For a comparable situation, note that in 1950, Americans spent 20.6% of their income on food; by 2004, that number had shrunk to 9.5%. ([9]). The change in spending patterns had an effect on the labor force. In 1950, 25 million Americans lived on farms and 12.2% of the labor force worked on them. In 1990, only 3 million Americans lived on farms and only 2.6% of the labor force worked on them. ([10]) This obviously caused major economic dislocation with profound effects for many people. (Remember Farm Aid?) But most people would say now that American society is better for the fact that we don't have to work 1.6 hours a day just to pay for the food we eat as people did in 1950. Note that the total amount spent on food may not have decreased, but the economy has grown far faster than expenditures on food. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 03:24, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

The crux of the question is where the savings are to be found. If every component of the entire healthcare system, from bandages to brain surgeons, were to take an equal hit (all prices and fees drop by 40%), there’d be a one-off, $850 billion reduction in spending. Some 15 million people would see their paychecks slashed by 40%, which would have a rather profound effect on their spending habits.

In the second quarter of this year, the economy fell 3.9% year-on-year, but if the $850 bn were subtracted entirely in that quarter, the contraction would have been 10.2%. Household spending on healthcare was 11.4% of GDP in the second quarter, which is about 75% of the 15% figure cited. If all the savings in the family portion were spent elsewhere, private consumption would have grown 7.3%, rather than falling 1.8%.

Mwalcoff, the combined spending by US households on food and medical care in 2008 was almost an identical share of total spending as it was in 1950. The mix, however, was different. DOR (HK) (talk) 06:23, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

So you assume in your analysis that every one of those people would sit tight for a 40% reduction in their income, and not even one of them would go chasing after the extra $850 billion that people had to spend on other things? No problem, I'm quite willing to absorb that $850B of new buying power myself, I'm sure I can come up with something! Or, horror of horrors, the US population might even take some steps to correct the negative household savings rate, negative current-account balance, negative trade-balance, and negative government fiscal balance. God forbid! Franamax (talk) 09:32, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

bath of oysters

my housemate bought a load of live oysters which he claims are living out of water and now he has put them in the bath and is having a bath with them, is this ok? Robo-Doug (talk) 19:04, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

I guess he can do whatever he likes. However I'm certainly not going to be eating the oysters afterwards. DJ Clayworth (talk) 20:19, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

That's just a waste of money and, more importantly, tasty oysters. ~ Amory (user • talk • contribs) 20:20, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

I think you'd have to ask the oysters if they like having naked humans in the bath with them. :)

So long as your housemate doesn't actually try to eat the oysters, didn't drink the bathwater, and doesn't repeat the experience, probably not a problem. I very seriously doubt the oysters are actually alive anymore, and if it was a hot bath, they are likely now cooked oysters. Should get pretty smelly in a day or two. Amusing image though... Franamax (talk) 20:23, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

What a fantastic waste of one of nature's most wonderful foodstuff. Other than that, besides being weird as hell, I'm not sure there is anything wrong with your roommate. I would start looking for a new place to live if this happened to me, but then again, whatever works for you... --Jayron32 21:08, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

He might be trying a variation on a theme. Oysters supposedly have aphrodisiac properties, and maybe he's trying ingestion by osmosis. Good luck. -- JackofOz (talk) 21:29, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

I can't imagine they'll live very long - don't they need salt water? Without that, they'll die pretty fast. Even with sufficiently salty water - without plants or surf dissolving oxygen into the water, their chances are slim at best. SteveBaker (talk) 21:32, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

They also gotta eat sometime. I wonder if he stocked his tub with plankton? Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 23:35, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

Those oysters are almost certainly dead. The way to check is to tap on them and see if they make a clacking noise. Googlemeister (talk) 14:28, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

Actually after reading the oyster article, it says they can live up to 2 weeks outside of water! Googlemeister (talk) 20:11, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

That's not altogether surprising. The octopus, one of their cousins, can crawl on dry land from one pool to another, seemingly without ill effects. Resilient creatures, those mollusks. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 03:34, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

One risk is cutting skin on the sharp shells. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 22:07, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

This represents cruelty to oysters. Bus stop (talk) 22:54, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

One word: PETO. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 03:34, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

I agree with Jayron32; I'd be more concerned about your roomates mental health than anything that could be caused by the oysters^{I alsothink I just sprained something laughing}Library Seraph (talk) 14:18, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

Was this an attempt to avoid the Great Pain of Space? —Tamfang (talk) 18:48, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

September 16

character needs to escape a cell

Hi. I have two characters stuck in a cell, with a metal bed frame, a mattress, a metal sink, and a metal toilet. They either needs to escape, or cause a disturbance so the guards will investigate and he can steal the keys. One of the bolts on the sink is loose. (If you're wondering why it's so specific, it's an online RP, someone else set the situation.) Can you think of a way to get out using what was given? 70.179.52.204 (talk) 01:01, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

Can one fake an illness, and when the guard stoops to check on him, the other could purloin the keys? Or better yet, have one fake a heart attack, and when the guard comes to check on him, as he stoops, he could freak and grab the guard in fake desperation like all "I'M HAVING A HEART ATTACK HELP!" and then grab the keys that way? Just some ideas... --Jayron32 02:40, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

Yelling FIRE! might get more immediate attention. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 03:01, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

I don't think prisoners have very many fire-starting materials in their cells. That's a good idea for rape, though. ~ Amory (user • talk • contribs) 03:19, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

Those are good ideas. You might also consider taking apart the sink, causing a flood - first thing that jumped to my mind. ~ Amory (user • talk • contribs) 02:42, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

He left out the part where the guard shoots them dead for trying to steal his keys. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 02:49, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

The mattress might be of some help in subduing the guard, as might the removed bolt (as kind of a makeshift blackjack). It might be possible to tie up the guard using strips of metal from the bedspring. I couldn't find anything in Google on this subject. As with most of these crazy stories, some outside-the-box (or cell) thinking is needed. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 03:13, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

The rules say we're not supposed to guess. But unless someone knows the answer somehow, what else can we do? Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 03:15, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

I'm sorry, the other RP'er didn't specify there was a specific way out of the room. He just expected me to find a way using the tools given. Remember the characters are also wearing pants, shirts, coats, shoes, etc. if that helps expand options. 70.179.52.204 (talk) 03:57, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia editors suggesting ideas for RP games. I think we've entered a new realm of geekery here..... ;) 80.193.130.5 (talk) 08:50, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

Sorry if I'm too late, but the most elegant solution yet is this--Rallette (talk) 09:45, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

Using the loose bolt remove the sink from its fittings, turn the bed frame on its side, call the guard in, knock out the guard with the sink, steal their clothes, repair the sink, put the guard in one prison's clothes, hide in the bed as if asleep, make a bit of noise, walk out with one prisoner behaving a little wildly and the other (in the warden's uniform) trying to hold 'em down, breeze through security as the manic movements make it difficult to recognise you're not one of the guards, once you're out, make a run for it. 194.221.133.226 (talk) 13:35, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

... or ... tell the DM that you're really in no hurry, and you are happy just sitting in the cell playing patience, so why doesn't he cut to the chase and explain his ingenious escape route, so that that you can say how clever he is and then get on with the quest. Gandalf61 (talk) 14:47, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

Try to knock the plaster and lathes out of the ceiling and climb out. Often this is a weak spot.Froggie34 (talk) 16:15, 16 September 2009 (UTC)DT

Use the loose bolt to spend 20 years carving an escape tunnel through the wall. Adam Bishop (talk) 16:21, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

Remove a piece of pipe from the sink supply line, and make the guard think it is the barrel of a gun. Lock him in the cell and take his keys. Get the drop on the other guards and lock them all in the cell, taking all the keys. Unlock the weapons locker and get a submachine gun. Go to the garage and drive away in the Sheriff's personal car. Dillinger escaped this way from an "escape proof" jail, starting with either a gun barrel carved from a bar of soap, or a piece of wood picked up in the exercise yard. Edison (talk) 20:45, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

If the cell is the right width, have them both brace themselves near the ceiling - called chimmneying in mountaineering I think - so that the gaurd sees what looks like an empty cell and opens the door to investigate. Then they can either hope the guard leaves the door open when he goes away to report the disapearrance, or they can jump on him when he enters the cell. Any other means of getting the gaurd to enter the cell without having reinforcements might work, such as pretending to be very ill or dead. 78.146.166.183 (talk) 21:57, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

If it is a non-prison situation, the mattress springs could be straightened and used. Polypipe Wrangler (talk) 07:20, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

guidelines about a project on trading in shares

I am a student of F.Y.B.C.B.I and want some information regarding trading in shares about demat account, procedure of demat accounting, doocuments and the sponsors and all other related information for preparing my project. can u help me for the same? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Manjiri rangnekar (talk • contribs) 11:53, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

There is some information in our demat account article. Gandalf61 (talk) 13:08, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

ACORN/OAKWILT

Many a Tweet hashtagged with "impeachobama" use the tags "ACORN" and "OAKWILT". What do these latter two mean? 80.193.130.5 (talk) 14:13, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

ACORN is an acronym for Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, which was an issue in the the 2008 presidential campaign associating Democratic candidate Barack Obama with its alleged voter registration and other improprieties. -- Deborahjay (talk) 14:38, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

Don't know about OAKWILT, but ACORN might relate to this. TastyCakes (talk) 14:40, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

Though it's a good question to ask what, if anything, this really has to do with Obama... though some people will go for anything! "Oak Wilt," uncapitalized, refers to a disease that kills oak (acorn-producing) trees, which is, well, a little disturbing, if people are implying that is what should be done. --98.217.14.211 (talk) 21:20, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

Runaway Rat

My pet rat ran away about a week or two ago. We just caught her today in the kitchen. She is very filthy, and her fur and tail feel oily. Also, her left hind foot looks bruised, and she is limping on it. What should I do for her, and are there any diseases that she could have that could be fatal to her or the rest of the family? Westernrider2991 (talk) 18:29, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

This would seem like veterinarian advice, which we are not really qualified to give. Googlemeister (talk) 18:58, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

Just beware of any vet named Dr. Katz. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 23:13, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

September 17

Identify this junk

I saw this junk lying on the trash heap while heading to work. I think it is a solar collector of some sort. Anyways it is made of a thick white sheet, the material seems flexible since it is folded enough to show its underside. Its front side contains dull grey octagons arranged in rows. The octagons seems to be embedded in the sheet as the underside of the thing also have the same octagons. Its underside also shows that wirings are sticking out on the faces of the octagons. --121.54.2.183 (talk) 01:16, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

It sounds like you may have found Mariner 2. Actually, you'll get a better response if you could upload a photo. Tempshill (talk) 05:01, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

No idea how to upload the pic to the web from my phone. Anyways, I showed the pic to a colleague. She says that it is either solar cells or semiconductor ingots. --121.54.2.188 (talk) 00:57, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Alien abduction insurance.

I was showing some co-workers our article on Alien abduction insurance (it's a hoot - check it out). I was surprised to see that it says that on at least two occasions, the insurance company actually paid a claim! There is a reference for the fact (an online news piece) - but it doesn't give any details. Does anyone know any more information about this? What could the claimants possibly have said to convince the companies to pay up?! SteveBaker (talk) 01:39, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

The article might not be right (cue stunned gasp from imaginary audience). Google brings up an article written in June that says Grip has never paid out a claim. On a related note, there's a humourous eHow on how to claim such insurance, "so incomplete paperwork doesn't stand between you and $10,000,000." (You'll have to Google them both, as both webaddresses cause the spam blacklist to fire.) Xenon54 / talk / 01:50, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

Remember insurance companies are businesses. If you are going to have to pay $1 a year, even if the possibility is there for 1 million years, you're likely to decide it cheaper to just pay the $1 per year if the alternative is going to cost a lot more. In fact in this case it may be worth it just for the publicity, from the sources [11] [12] it's apparent the company does seem to seek publicity (and if you're going to make money that way, why not?) Nil Einne (talk) 03:17, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

THYRIODECTOMY

There is a 15 years old girl who lost her voice after thyriodectomy.The surgeon who performed the surgeory says the voice will come back after 3 months.is it true?

How would you know if a qualified thyriodectomy surgeon were the one answering your question on an internet reference forum? DOR (HK) (talk) 10:08, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

Eh?!? You mean I've been getting strung along all this time? I thought we were ALL totally qualified and well respected professionals, especially with regard to medical and legal advice! Damn! Joking aside, though, OP, we cannot give medical advice and would not be able to even if we were qualified to do it (and there would be no way of proving that) - it is quite simply against the rules of Wikipedia. Either ask another surgeon for a second opinion, or search the net for a website of some qualified person(s). --KageTora - (영호 (影虎)) (talk) 10:51, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

Our thyroidectomy article has some information on complications, including damage to the recurrent laryngeal nerve leading to hoarseness. That being said, none of us could predict when or if the girl's voice will return without knowing additional details about what happened during the surgery. As far as your second question goes, none of the reference desk regulars has identified themselves as an otolaryngologist, to my knowledge. --- Medical geneticist (talk) 13:10, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

mole removal

Does it hurt?Accdude92 (talk) (sign) 13:28, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

Only if they forget to apply the local numbing agent. Go see your dermatologist. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 13:45, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

This[13] site claims reassuringly that "Our Lawn Mole removal is SAFE for: *Kids *Pets *Plants & Yes…it's even safe for MOLES! (Don't worry, we Don't Kills[sic] your Moles...They just move on, Safely & Naturally!) That contrasts with the inhumane Whac-A-Mole method. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 14:54, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

Silly me, I thought he meant moles on the skin. For moles in the yard, a well-designed shotgun can work. That might hurt the mole, but it will feel good to the one holding the shotgun. Otherwise, there's the time-honored trick of putting a hose in the molehill and turning the faucet on. That will have the side benefit of saturating your thirsty lawn. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 14:58, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

My father was killed in a Whac-A-Mole, you insensitive clod! ~ Amory (user • talk • contribs) 15:00, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

I thought Whac-a-Mole was a sauce used on tacos. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 15:04, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

Whether mole removal hurts depends on who you are. Our government feels more secure without moles but on the other paw, being a notable mole does not look good on one's curriculum vitae.Cuddlyable3

Removing exactly one mole properly can be stressful due to the large number of molecules that need to be counted. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 16:31, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

Removing mole can be financially painful if you spill it on an alpaca carpet. Googlemeister (talk) 18:42, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

Back to the original question: I had a thingie removed from the end of my nose, and they used a local anesthetic. It didn't hurt. Who then was a gentleman? (talk) 21:44, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

Authenticity cehck

Ho do we check to know if a person is lying or true on something we cannot verify ,on anything he claims to have done professionally or personally where we have no rights or means but sheer curiosity so that we can carry on to be friends. i mean ,it can be deceptive.

Weellll... I think you're going to have to be a little more specific about what you're referring to. Do you want to know if he really got his degree from such-and-such university? That he had a job and An Important Company? That is he really the son of Whomever He Says He Is? I mean, each of these would have different ways of verifying, some of which you could do "just because you are curious," some of which you would not be allowed legally to do because of privacy rights. Try and be a little more clear about what you are asking about and we can be a little more specific in an answer. --98.217.14.211 (talk) 16:27, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

Yes you'r right, he claims to be highly qualified and sounds genuine when says it.

You could tell him "Show me your advanced university degree you've talked about, I want to see what it looks like". Comet Tuttle (talk) 16:56, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

Many universities will tell anyone who asks some very basic information about their alumni, like whether they were there, what dates they came and went, and what degrees they received. This helps the university by reducing the number of charlatans who can claim to have attended but did not. Just call them up and ask. Also, you could find someone whom you know to be qualified in the field and ask them to administer a brief test to the questionable person. --Sean 17:03, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

Alternatively, if it is a professional qualification (chartered accountant, for example), the professional body that issued it will also be able to verify it for you - that is the main purpose of such bodies, to provide a way of ensuring people know what they are doing. --Tango (talk) 20:18, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

Ask if they are willing to undergo a polygraph test? If it's something that the person has claimed to have done personally, there are no independent ways of confirming this and they want to convince you of their veracity, they may be willing. Of course, the process is by no means 100% perfect. -- Александр Дмитрий (Alexandr Dmitri) (talk) 11:58, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

internal Job posting

What all things we need to know if an interview is being carried out for an internal job posting for the post of manager from sales to customer service or vice versa (opportunities in both) if its chaired by the general manager ,are there any strong points we can talk about and if any loopholes that may be missed. Please advice

Please sign your posts here by typing four tildes (~~~~) at the end of each post. To answer the question, your text is a little confusing — I think you are asking about tips for interviewing for a promotion to a managerial job. If you google "promotion interview tips" or "job interview tips", you'll find a lot of advice. As far as "strong points we can talk about", how are we supposed to know the strong points of your past performance? Comet Tuttle (talk) 16:54, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

I think the OP might be talking about things for the interviewers to ask the interviewees. 94.168.184.16 (talk) 18:22, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

As an HR professional, I suggest asking yourself why you have been named responsible for conducting interviews when you obviously know nothing about them? Someone tasked with hiring a new manager should NOT be using Wikipedia's RefDesk as their primary training materials. 218.25.32.210 (talk) 01:40, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Highest Bail amount

Recently the bail for Phillip Garrido was set at $30 million. What is the highest amount ever set for bail? What is the highest amount actually paid for bail? What is the highest amount forfeited (because the defendant fled before trial)?

Clark Rockefeller had bail set at a ridiculous $50 million before it was revoked altogether. I'm not sure if that is the highest, but that's quite high (if you're going to set it that high, you ought to just deny bail... which is what they did. I feel similarly about $30 million—if he's that much of a flight risk, just deny it!) --98.217.14.211 (talk) 16:57, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

That wouldn't be a ridiculous amount for a real Rockefeller. Maybe the judge took the guy at his word. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 17:06, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

Hmmm...isn't the right to 'reasonable bail' enshrined in the US Constitution? Rhinoracer (talk) 13:31, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Even if it is, the judge would probably be in charge of determining what reasonable means in a specific case all the way up to infinity billion dollars (denying it outright) for some cases. Googlemeister (talk) 14:44, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Lead doorstops

I have a couple lead pigs that I don't have any real use for. They have no coating on them. I thought they would make nice doorstops. The thing is, I have a dog. Will this be a potential health risk for an animal, just to be in proximity to them? (She will not eat or lick them, that is for sure. They weigh some 10 lbs each and are not interesting to her at all.) What if I coated it in some way? I tried to paint one of them, but the paint really didn't adhere to the lead very well (it is tacky and easy to peel off). If I were to paint them, what kind of paint should I look for that will adhere to the lead? (Or how else to do it—I haven't really painted metal before, so I don't know if a primer is necessary, for example.)

Any thoughts one had on this would be great. Obviously I know that there probably aren't toxicologists running around here with exact figures, but your input would be great as I weigh the options here. (And before anyone asks, there are no children in the household, so that is not a risk.) --98.217.14.211 (talk) 16:54, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

Lead#Exposure_Pathways indicates that if they're just sitting there, there's not much risk. The risk will increase if they're sliding around on the floor a lot, which could create lead dust, which could present an inhalation danger. Obviously if Rover starts chewing on them you must do something. As for painting them, I'm not sure, but maybe you could put them in decorative pillow cases as door stops sometimes have. I suggest a porcine theme. --Sean 17:09, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

Seeing as many millions of people for many years drank water that had passed through lead pipes without significant harm should allay any obvious fears. 86.4.186.107 (talk) 21:58, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

And for even longer before that they drank from the same water supply they dumped their waste in ... --Sean 15:08, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Re painting, check out the Hammerite range of paints, some of which are designed to be applied to bare metals such as iron. I don't offhand know if these, or others in the range, are suitable for lead ("led") but you might at least get a lead ("leed") via their own website. 87.81.230.195 (talk) 23:47, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

Many years ago I cast some lead to make doorstops and painted them with yacht varnish so that the bright lead showed through and didn't oxidise (or not as quickly). It worked well for a while, but eventually the lead went grey. ... and I still drink water stored in a lead tank and delivered through lead pipes! Dbfirs 16:59, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedias by creation

Is there a place where I can find a list of Wikipedias (I mean English, German, Estonian...) ordered by their date of creation? --151.51.24.225 (talk) 18:04, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

See meta:Wikimedia projects. Nanonic (talk) 21:07, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

Mmm...Thank you, but I can't find a complete list of Wikipedias by creation in that page... --151.51.24.225 (talk) 06:45, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

While the article History of Wikipedia in itself is mainly concerned with the English Wikipedia, it is still somewhat helpful, as there seems to be some relevant links in the "Historical summaries" section of the external links. I think that a lot of the information you are looking for is probably to be found in Category:Wikipedia years. --Saddhiyama (talk) 08:21, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Question about bilingual countries

I feel we here in Finland are in a unique situation. Finland is not only the only country in the world to have Finnish as an official first language, it's the only country in the world to have a non-negligible Finnish-speaking population, and I'm pretty sure most Finnish-speaking foreigners are Finnish immigrants or their descendants. But still we are a bilingual country, with Swedish as an official second language. In Southern and Western Finland, every single official text everywhere is in both Finnish and Swedish. In Åland, they don't even bother writing them in Finnish. Outside Åland, in private life, most written and spoken language is in Finnish only. But still, we have to treat Swedish as one of our official languages. I'm not trying to argue against having to speak Swedish (I've sometimes argued for it), but my question is, is there any other country in the world in such a situation? Being the only country in the world to speak a certain language, but still having to have another language as an official second language? JIP | Talk 18:09, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

Answering my own question, at least some of the ex-USSR countries, particularly the Baltic countries, come to mind. They all have a sizeable Russian-speaking minority, but is Russian still an official language in those countries? JIP | Talk 18:11, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

Ireland and Malta immediately spring to mind, (Malta probably being closer to the Finnish situation seeing as most Irish people don't speak Irish). The Baltic states, AIUI, have only their national languages as official languages, which is an ongoing problem with their sizable Russian minorities who can't qualify for citizenship without passing tests in Estonian/Latvian/Lithuanian--Saalstin (talk) 18:25, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

You could include Wales, since (outside Patagonia) it's the only place in the world to speak Welsh but English and Welsh are both official languages (well, languages "treated on the basis of equality"). But it depends whether "country" means "sovereign state" or not. The Wednesday Island (talk) 18:41, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the answers. What I find especially funny about our situation is, that linguistically, Finnish and Swedish are very distantly related. Finnish is not even an Indo-European language, one of the very few non-Indo-European language to remain as an official language in Europe. I believe the situation is the same in the Baltic countries. Estonian is one of the closest relatives of Finnish, and at least in Tallinn, Finnish and Estonian are mutually intelligible. I don't know if that's the case north of Helsinki or south of Tallinn though. I don't understand any Latvian or Lithuanian, so I don't know the situation with them. I understand Welsh and Maltese even less, but I feel they are also non-Indo-European languages. Am I correct? I specifically did not include Wales in my original question, because it's technically not an independent country, even though it's a separate sub-national entity, and a strong ethnic community. My question was specifically about independent countries. What is the situation in Malta, what are the proportions between Maltese and English speakers? Do most people living in Malta understand Maltese? Are all official documents in both Maltese and English? As a complete foreigner to all things related to Malta, I'm intrigued to know. JIP | Talk 19:22, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

Welsh Welsh language is a Brythonic celtic language, which is part of the indo-european family of languages.

Maltese Maltese language is unusual (in europe) in that it is a Semitic languages. (Also written in latin, not arabic..)83.100.251.196 (talk) 19:31, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

Also see Malta#Languages "The Eurobarometer states that 100% of the population speaks Maltese. Also, 88% of the population speaks English, 66% speaks Italian, and 17% speaks French">83.100.251.196 (talk) 19:33, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

JIP, I find it intriguing that you, JIP, as a Finn, state that Finnish is 'very distantly related to Swedish.' Finnish is completely unrelated to Swedish, being a member of the Fenno-Ugric languages (a subset of the Ural-Altaic languages) and related to Hungarian. You then mention that it's not an Indo-European language, which is correct, so there seems to be a slight contradiction there. I just thought I would point that out. In answer to your original question, though, Switzerland has three official languages - French, German, and Italian - but the native language is Romansh, which as far as I know is not the language in which official documents are regularly printed. --KageTora - SPQW - (影虎) 19:52, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

Well I mostly intended "very distantly related" as an euphemism for "completely unrelated". I'm sure the languages do share some common ancestry, but it's completely negligible, and dates way back to the pre-Christian era. Close political and cultural relations between Finland and Sweden, for the past millennium, must have influenced the Finnish language much more. JIP | Talk 19:58, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

(BEFORE ECs)Non indoeuropean languages spoken in Europe include:

• The Semitic Maltese language noted above
• The Uralic languages, which include Hungarian, Finnish and Estonian, as well as such non-national languages as Sami and Karelian.
• The language isolate Basque.

I'm pretty sure everything else is an Indo-european language, even the other Baltic languages like Latvian and Lithuanian. In fact, I am pretty sure that some scholars consider Lithuanian to be the closest modern language to the ancient Proto-Indo-European language. --Jayron32 20:10, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

(AFTER ECs), actually, any Swedish influence on Finnish would have been comparitively recent, and mostly vocabulary-based, much like the influence of Norman French on English, which is still fundementally a Germanic language. The further back you go, the LESS connection (not more) you are likely to find between Finnish and Swedish. --Jayron32 20:10, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

The official languages of Quebec are French (first) and English (second), and all public signs must be in both French and English. From what I understand, if a non-native English speaking child comes to Quebec and attends its schools, they're required to study in French. There are English language schools, but only native English speakers are allowed to be taught in English. Who then was a gentleman? (talk) 21:50, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

I don't know if it's quite what JIP is aiming at, but the situation in English Canada is also somewhat analogous. French is only widely spoken in certain parts of the country: Quebec, New Brunswick, northeast Ontario and a few communities here and there in Ontario and Manitoba. But French is an official second language everywhere in the country. So the signs at the post office in, say, Medicine Hat, Alberta, where hardly anyone speaks French, are all bilingual, and every consumer product's package must have English and French words in equal size. In Toronto, where French is the 11th-most-spoken language (behind English, Chinese, Italian, Portuguese, Punjabi, Spanish, Polish, Tagalog, Tamil and Urdu), the highway signs read "EXIT/SORTIE" -- as if French-speaking people couldn't figure out what "EXIT" means. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 00:55, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Just to clarify, this is the situation in Canada: English and French are national official languages with equal status. In Quebec, French is the one provincial official language. In the other 9 provinces, English is the language predominantly used, but New Brunswick makes both languages official at the provincial level too, and the other 8 provinces have no provincial official language and their governments use French only to the extent that they find it appropriate (like those highway signs in Ontario, a relatively recent change) or that federal law requires (for example, I recall a Supreme Court ruling requiring provincial legislation to be translated into French). By the way, in the territories (not provinces) of the Canadian Arctic, there are additional official languages. Official bilingualism in Canada is the article on this subject, but I'm mostly speaking from my own knowledge here. --Anonymous, 04:21 UTC, September 18, 2009.

More specifically, another example of a country that had a unique first language but also has a second official language is Israel, which has both Hebrew and Arabic as official languages. Luxembourg has French and German along with Luxembourgish. Russian is an official language in Belarus, Kazakhstan and Kyrgyzstan along with the native languages of those countries. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 01:00, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Philippines?.-121.54.2.188 (talk) 03:39, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Another answer is Paraguay; almost all speakers of Guarani live there, but Spanish is also official. It's different from Finland in that Spanish is also widely used. --Anonymous, 04:21 UTC, September 18, 2009.

Here in New Zealand we have English and Māori as national languages. We're the only country in the world to speak Māori, and there's a non-negligible percentage of the population which speaks it (though the Cook Islands have a very closely related language). Grutness...wha? 07:08, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

We actually have 3 official languages in NZ: New Zealand English, Maori, and New Zealand Sign Language. Aaadddaaammm (talk) 10:10, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Belgium has Flemish and French as two of its official languages. No other country speaks Flemish. However, Flemish is a dialect of Dutch, and it is claimed that the two are mutually intelligible (not in my experience though!). German is also an official language, and there are other languages spoken in this delightful small country. --TammyMoet (talk) 09:38, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

I don't think anywhere except India has Hindi as an official language, English is also an official language, and Hindi isn't an Indo-European language :) Dmcq (talk) 09:56, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Agree, but small corrections: Hindi is an Indo-European language and one of its dialects, Hindustani, is also an official language of Fiji. Abecedare (talk) 10:11, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Incidentally, Fiji, is another candidate with Fijian (a Austronesian language), English and Hindi (both Indo-European) as official languages. As is obvious, Finland is far from unique in this aspect. Abecedare (talk) 10:17, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Also Sri Lanka with official languages Sinhala, an Indo-European language spoken mainly on the island, and Tamil, a Dravidian language spoken in parts of India, Singapore, Malaysia etc. Abecedare (talk) 10:29, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Switzerland has four national languages (Art. 4), and three official languages, with Romanch also recognised as an official language for the purposes of reports from the Confederation (Art. 70). The constitution is written in all four national languages, with an English version for information purposes. -- Александр Дмитрий (Alexandr Dmitri) (talk) 11:07, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Singapore has Malay as the national language with English, Mandarin and Tamil as other official languages, with English being used most of all and Mandarin second. Of course none of these languages are unique to Singapore. (But since Canada etc came up) The situation gets even more complicated if you start considering non official but widely used languages. Malay is the only official language in Malaysia. English is widely used including for some official purposes and is a compulsory subject at primary and secondary school (and was used to teach science and mathematics for a while but that's to be abandoned), and also used in universities to varying degrees and considered the language of business but is not an official language. (For example, it may not be used in parliament without permission of the speaker [14]). Mandarin and Tamil is also the medium of instruction for some government supported primary schools but again is not an official language. There is also a number of other indigenous languages in use but sadly not recognised as official languages, particularly in East Malaysia which have varying degrees of government support and problems e.g. Iban language, Kadazan language, [15]. State government may of course also have their own usages of the various other languages, e.g. multilingual road signs [16]. And of course when you consider sub national entities Languages with official status in India and Languages of China are worth a read. Nil Einne (talk) 16:59, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

ISTR some strange situation in Luxembourg where French is used when writing, German is used by the government, and Letzeburgisch (unique to LUX) is used for day-to-day conversation (caveat: this is from a dim memory, so my facts may be way off beam). Grutness...wha? 01:36, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia's Main Page

www.wikipedia.com takes you to a page with a big logo, a search box, and a billion and one links. Given that, how many people really see the Main Page? I didn't even know it existed until more than two years after I started using Wikipedia! Is there some way of comparing the number of hits the front page gets and the number the "main page" gets? Vimescarrot (talk) 19:32, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia is actually www.wikipedia.org, though the '.com' address does lead you to the '.org' page. --KageTora - SPQW - (影虎) 19:36, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

Furthermore, once you select your language from the list, it brings you to the main page of the language you select. So, if you select English, you are magically taken to en.wikipedia's main page. I don't see the problem. --Jayron32 19:38, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

Not a "problem", I just find it...odd. Or am I the only one who didn't know we had a main page? Vimescarrot (talk) 19:46, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

See Wikipedia:Statistics. [17], specifically, says that last month, the main page on en is the #2 most-hit page, next to the Search page. Comet Tuttle (talk) 19:39, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

Cheers. Vimescarrot (talk) 19:46, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

Hmm. That link doesn't actually include plain old http://www.wikipedia.org/ since it's not on /en/. Vimescarrot (talk) 19:52, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

That isn't really a main page, it is a portal. It's just there to get people to the site they want. --Tango (talk) 20:15, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

There is a dedicated search page? --KageTora - SPQW - (影虎) (talk) 20:24, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

People probably think so. Search redirects to Searching. Vimescarrot (talk) 20:25, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

Special:Search --Tango (talk) 21:56, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

When you type in something and nothing comes up it shows you search results. That's teh search page and is the most viewed n wikipedia.92.251.140.93 (talk)

Are you asking how many people know of Main Page or how many people know of the 271 or so main pages we have? I ask because the answer will be different and one reason we have www.wikipedia.org is because not everyone understands English and even those that do may want to look at some other language. (Another advantage is it reduces the number of people who come and yell at us because the search doesn't autofocus on Main Page.) Personally I believe I came across the main page before www.wikipedia.org, but I'm not sure Nil Einne (talk) 16:08, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Since I've now got the number of hits per day on the Main Page, I'm now just after the hits per day on the entrance portal, for comparison. Vimescarrot (talk) 16:31, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

In the old, ancient days, www.wikipedia.org immediately redirected to the main page. Then, probably around, I don't remember, 2003 or so, the wise people decided that www ought to be a portal and en just one of many, despite being what most people at the time meant when they said "Wikipedia". And such is how we have it today. I am sure you can pinpoint the exact day by looking through the WikiEN list serve archives. --98.217.14.211 (talk) 14:02, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

Hammerkeeping ruler up...er..haad to name but you get the picture...

this couldn't really happen could it?92.251.212.168 (talk) 21:05, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

Well it could be fake - but the principle is that the head of the hammer is the heavy bit and so counterbalances the whole thing - note that the head of the hammer is under the desk. You could probably try this at home...83.100.251.196 (talk) 21:13, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

There are tons of explanations, ranging from straight up shooped (the string especially) to the hammer and/or ruler actually being nailed to the wall (look at the claw of the hammer) to all of that actually being on the floor (the shadow of the hammer's head looks weird). Still, all you really need is this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajKLgGo0WZU. ~ Amory (user • talk • contribs) 21:23, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

Will look92.251.212.168 (talk) 21:26, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

Likewise here: [18] Doesn't look fake, seems to have to do with balancing just right, as noted in the first response. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 01:11, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

I don't think it even requires balancing just right. It looks quite stable to me. I'd think the biggest problem would be the tail end of the hammer sliding sideways against the ruler, but if that ruler is like similar ones I've used then it has a groove on the bottom side which will help prevent that happening. Other than that there's practically no way it can fall without a pretty big push. In fact I'm surprised so many people think it looks unstable. I wonder how they envision it falling. -- BenRG (talk) 11:47, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

It certainly can happen - so long as the head of the hammer multiplied by it's distance under the edge of the table equals the weights of the parts to the right of the table edge multiplied by their distances from the edge. In a good hammer, almost all of the weight is in the head and the other parts of the apparatus look to be very light - so this doesn't suprise me at all. Anyway - if you need convincing, here is a video of someone doing the exact same trick: http://www.metacafe.com/watch/316065/strange_hammer_balance/ SteveBaker (talk) 01:32, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

The key issue would seem to keep the connections stable, i.e. the string along with the handle touching the underside of the ruler are key. Then, as the videos show, you can get the ruler very close to its end, like 1/8 inch from the edge of the table, and the apparatus remains in balance. I would suspect it doesn't really matter how little of the ruler is on the table, as long as it doesn't come so close that it slips off. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 14:10, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

What's wrong with this? Seems a perfectly straightforward balancing setup to me. 93.97.184.230 (talk) 15:57, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Maryland state history question

What are the two to three most prominent families in Maryland history? This may include industrial, turn of the century influential families who were residents of the state.

This sounds like a homework question. (Apologies if it isn't.) Wikipedia volunteers will not do your homework for you. Please make an attempt to do the question yourself, then if you have trouble understanding something you can come back here with a question. Xenon54 / talk / 21:31, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

You should probably start with Cecilius Calvert, 2nd Baron Baltimore. Who then was a gentleman? (talk) 22:04, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

The Ripkens, maybe? -- Mwalcoff (talk) 00:44, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for your help! This is not a homework assignment, I just recently became a resident of the state and wanted to learn more about the area.

Engine bore versus Horsepower - 312 c.i. Y block Ford V8 with Holley 4 barrel carburetor

Subject engine is rated at 245 H.P. What would be the effect of a .20-.30 overbore on rated horsepower? Sjmclaughlin (talk) 23:27, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

Not as much as a simple blower. -- Taxa (talk) 05:54, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

September 18

How tall are the three men?

Bush、Reagan & Gorbachev

How tall are the three men in the picture?--百楽兎 (talk) 01:02, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Would you be amazed to know we have Heights of United States Presidents and presidential candidates? Apparently Bush Sr. was 6'2" and Reagan was 6'1". I don't know about Gorbachev but obviously he is a few inches shorter. Adam Bishop (talk) 01:06, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

According to http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0329784/bio Gorbachev is 5' 9" (1.75 m). SteveBaker (talk) 01:18, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Reagan was 6'1"? But Bush Sr. seemed much taller than Reagan in the picture...--百楽兎 (talk) 02:53, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Old people shrink. Reagan was likely 6'1" in his prime, but in this picture he was in his mid-70's, while Bush Sr. was in his early 60's. So combine a) the natural tendance of people to shrink when they get older b) his posture in the picture, and c) illusions of perspective because of where the men are standing and it does not look all that out-of-whack. --Jayron32 02:59, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

And, although slight, the difference in the height of their shoes should be factored in. Dismas|^(talk) 15:15, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

You may also notice that Reagan is leaning forward somewhat, with his shoulders hunched - can't see if his knees are bent - whearas Bush and Gorbachev are standing more erect. B00P (talk) 17:59, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Minitab

am very new to this statistical software called Minitab, how do I go about mastering it as the book seems to be very less helpful, are there any videos we can download and learn as I do learn from visuals more than the text. Anyone please help..

There are a great many Minitab tutorials on the internet, as evidenced by this Google search. Consider adding search terms to narrow to your specific area of interest. Videos will be less common, but are probably still available for common functions. Consider using Google's video search to find them. — Lomn 12:56, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Australia

Hi me and my friend are wanting to take a gap year between finishing college and going to university. Our dream destination is Australia. I was just wanting some advice on what visa's and regualtions are in place. We are wanting to go for about a year. We're both UK citizen. Any other advice like where to stay, jobs etc would be great.

Thanks 81.129.200.83 (talk) 09:29, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

I could go on for hours with this as i did exactly the same thing! If you contact me via my talk page or use my username here to find my website via google, I can speak to you via email at length about where to go what to do etc... As to the legalities of the visas and regulations, A) things may have changed since I left there 8 years ago, and b) we aren't supposed to give legal advice on here... Please contact me via email or talk page though as i can suggest some great ideas... Gazhiley (talk) 11:30, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

You'll find a lot of helpful information here.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 12:38, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

commercial

This week on New Zealand Television, I heard a quote in a US TV show from a female character who claimed she was on a commericial in which one of the lines was " Pretty sneaky, sis. " This same later was later spoken this week by Charlie Sheen on " 3½ Men ", for some reason, in the episode in which his Mother faked a heart attack. Now I cannot remember the first show on which I saw the female character, nor whether she was a real person playing herself, or a character on a show claiming to have been on a real ad. Was the ad real ? I assume it was American, and if anyone can remember the show on which the woman claimed to have been on the commericial, that would be great, too. I have an idea it could have been the episode of " My name is Earl " in which Seth Green played a dying man Earl had wronged earlier in life, whose wish was to make a film.

Any details, please enlighten me. Thanks, Chris Lilly, " The Russian ", CHRISTCHURCH, New Zealand, also at (email removed for privacy)

Google gives an advert for Connect Four as it's top hit for "Pretty sneaky sis" Nanonic (talk) 10:42, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

I assume u mean 2½ Men? Gazhiley (talk) 11:32, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Insert joke about New Zealand exchange rate here FiggyBee (talk) 13:45, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

Sachin

where did Sachin made his 42th test century?

Seddon Park - Fribbler (talk) 17:56, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Gandhi in Kanthi

In which year did Mahatma Gandhi Came to Kanthi?

That would appear to be a mixed metaphor, as Gandhi is a person and Kanthi links as a necklace. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 17:44, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Kanthi is an alternate name for Contai, a subdivisional town in India. — Lomn 17:57, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

According to this source, Gandhi's first visit to Kanthi was in July 1925. He returned for a visit from 30 December 1945 to 3 January 1946. Marco polo (talk) 01:21, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

question about illness and president of US

If you are scheduled to meet the president and end up getting a contagious illness (say the H1N1 flu), would you not be permitted to meet with him on the grounds that it is not a great idea to get the pres sick? Who would be able to make such a determination?

Googlemeister (talk) 14:37, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Anyone with flu ought to quarantine themselves, regardless of who they are scheduled to meet. --Tango (talk) 16:27, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Initially, you are responsible for making the determination. If you're feeling sick and think, "I can still go to work" then you are making that determination. If you knowingly had H1N1 and tried to conceal it due to the importance of the meeting, then you are taking on that responsibility. If you were to inform the president's staff that you were a confirmed case of H1N1, then they would most likely make the decision for you and postpone the meeting. Dismas|^(talk) 18:03, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

If you knowingly concealed a contagious infection before meeting the president then 1. the screeners are not doing a good job and 2. I bet you could be brought up on charges - conspiracy to commit treason or something equally as fear-instilling. ~ Amory (user • talk • contribs) 18:37, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

I really can not see the National Security Adviser, or the Speaker of the House getting brought in for treason simply because they tried to work through a "relatively" common illness. Googlemeister (talk) 18:53, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Article III, section 3: Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court. So no. As a practical matter, treason prosecutions are virtually impossible except in extremely rare circumstances. Even Julius and Ethel Rosenberg were not charged with treason (for one thing, the prosecution would have had to prove that the Soviet Union was legally an "Enemy" of the United States). --Trovatore (talk) 23:25, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

palestinian refugees in iran

After reading news dispatches regarding "unity" with Palestinians, I have sought information regarding Palestinian presence, if any, in Iran,and if available, the dispersion of Palestinians in the Middle East.

A succinct question might be--"What is total Palestinian population in the Middle East, and by country?

A second, related question would be, "Are Palestinians absorbed into general populations in these countries?"

Our article Palestinian diaspora has some data, but none for Iran I'm afraid. The first challenge for your subsidiary question is going to be coming up with a definition of what constitutes the Middle East. -- Александр Дмитрий (Alexandr Dmitri) (talk) 18:56, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

There are no Palestinian refugees in Iran. They have to pass through other countries to reach Iran. --Omidinist (talk) 05:31, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

Iraq-Iran

What are Iraq-Iran Relations like? Thank You --GollumSnakes (talk) 16:21, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

I put your questions into seperate headers. Please don't put unrelated questions under the same header in the future. Nil Einne (talk) 17:05, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

See our article on Iran-Iraq relations. — Lomn 17:44, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Snakes

Most toughest snake to kill? Thank You --GollumSnakes (talk) 16:21, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Osama bin Laden? :) What do you mean by "toughest to kill"? You chop their head off, they're pretty much dead, no matter the species. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 17:42, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Presumably some variety of deep sea snake is toughest to find, and thus toughest to kill. Otherwise, I'm in agreement with Bugs -- dead is dead, and we're good at killing individual snakes. — Lomn 17:46, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

I'll go with Black Mamba. They live in the jungle and they have a terribly potent bite. Vranak (talk) 18:11, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Titanoboa would have been pretty difficult, weighing more than a ton and as long as a bus. Fortunately there aren't any around any more. DJ Clayworth (talk) 18:29, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

In General, large animals are more difficult to kill then small animals in a straight up fight. If your snake is trying to escape from you though, a small fast snake might be more difficult. So I guess the answer is that it depends on the situation. PS you probably should not go out of your way to kill snakes. They may look mean, but most would just as soon avoid people. Googlemeister (talk) 20:37, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Yes, there seem to be 2 questions here: (a) which is the hardest to capture?, and (b) having captured it, which is the hardest to kill? Being somewhat herpetologically challenged, I cannot answer either question. -- JackofOz (talk) 22:59, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Is first capturing it really the best way to kill a wild snake? Algebraist 23:02, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Snake Plissken of course, duuuh. Clarityfiend (talk) 21:57, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Randy Moss

Randy Moss most dropped catches? Thank You --GollumSnakes (talk) 16:21, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Be more specific. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 17:48, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

The use of the word catches made me think that he was a catcher in baseball but apparently Randy Moss is a wide receiver in American football. According to this, as of Sep 14, 2009, he has dropped just one pass. Although, that seems to just be for this season alone. This page claims that he dropped seven passes last season. Dismas|^(talk) 17:57, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

That's why I asked him to elaborate. He could be asking which season Moss had the most dropped catches. He could also be asking if Moss holds a record for most dropped catches. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 18:00, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

I understand that. The broken English of the question makes it unclear what they are inquiring about. But on the other side of the coin, I might have gotten lucky and answered their question with the links I provided. They could come back and be more specific but chances are they won't since very few of the OPs seem to ever come back and thank us for answering their questions or asking follow-ups. Dismas|^(talk) 18:06, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

I found other sources claiming 9 drops for last season (and one claiming 6). I'm forced to conclude that drops are one of those stats (tackles and assisted tackles being the highest-profile examples) that are highly dependent on who's watching the game rather than being an objective value. Perhaps that's why it's so hard to find a historical record. — Lomn 18:44, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

His year with the Oakland Raiders would probably be the right answer, since he wasn't really interested in performing well when he was with them. Who then was a gentleman? (talk) 21:45, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Meanwhile, what was the year Moss wrecked the most cars? PhGustaf (talk) 21:51, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Ear piercing

Why dosnt it hurt, like what is the science behind why/Accdude92 (talk) (sign) 16:28, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

There are relatively few nerves in the area, thus it's less sensitive to pain. — Lomn 17:38, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Who says it doesn't hurt? Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 17:40, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Not having ever got my ears pierced I did note that one ear piercing place uses ice to first numb the ear. Whether this is because the piercing itself is painful or whether it is to assuage fears of the customers that it would be painful (when it might not be) I do not know. Googlemeister (talk) 20:33, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

So when you pierce your ear, and you let it close up, do the nevers grow back?Accdude92 (talk) (sign) 22:02, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

hysterectomy

Yes, this is a media question. No, it is not media advice. There is no diagnosis or prognosis being requested, it is a simple query for factual information. Please read Wikipedia:Reference desk/Guidelines/Medical advice before hastily and wrongfully removing this question

If a hypothetical woman living in the UK wanted a hysterectomy, but was healthy and had no medical reason to have one, would she be able to have the surgery performed anyway? Obviously the NHS probably wouldn't pay for it, but could this surgery be done privately? Are there any laws preventing someone from having a hysterectomy for personal reasons?

If she is healthy and there is no medical reason to have one, she would likely find it difficult to find a doctor willing to perform unneeded surgery. Googlemeister (talk) 18:14, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Laws preventing elective surgery seem unlikely. The NHS specifically has information on elective hysterectomies, making a legal prohibition seem even less likely. I'd expect more difficulties finding a doctor willing to perform unnecessary surgery, per GM above. — Lomn 18:22, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Media or medical? --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 18:52, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

The surgeon who performed such an operation _might_ be prosecuted for assault, consent notwithstanding (see Operation Spanner), and would be exposed to a very great risk of being struck off for performing an operation he/she knew was unnecessary (see Bolam test). But this probably falls foul of the page's prohibition on giving legal advice... Tevildo (talk) 19:29, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

prosecuted by who? if the patient was willing, who would be prosecuting?

The Crown Prosecution Service, as it's a criminal offence. Volentia non fit injuria only applies (in English law, at least) to civil cases. To take an extreme example, if I ask you to kill me, and you do so, you're still guilty of murder. Tevildo (talk) 21:11, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Asking to be killed and asking to have a non-vital organ removed are hardly the same thing. And for any surgery, at least where I've been (in the USA), especially one requiring sedation or anesthetic, you are usually asked to sign a waiver that acknowledges there's a risk you could die. That doesn't mean you'll find a doctor willing to do it. Tubal ligation for preventing pregnancy is a much more common and accepted procedure that most any surgeon (except maybe a Catholic) would be willing to do. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 09:29, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

Yes, consent is a _necessary_ element of a legal surgical procedure, but isn't _sufficient_ to make such a procedure legal. For a less extreme example, female circumcision is illegal (except for genuine medical reasons) in the UK, irrespective of consent - in the words of the statute, "no account is to be taken of any belief of that person or any other person that the operation is required as a matter of custom or ritual". Tevildo (talk) 10:21, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

And I would also note, consent may not be enough to protect from civil action either. Just because someone gave consent at the time doesn't mean they aren't going to change their minds, and anyone or business would be stupid to think that there's no risk the person will change the minds. And the person could be declared mentally incompetent meaning the guardian may take action on behalf of the person. Also, a waiver doesn't protect against genuine malpractice. Indeed if there was insufficient explanation of the risks the waiver may not be sufficient either. Nil Einne (talk) 11:47, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

Tubal ligation is routine surgery in America. Maybe England has some laws against it or something. But while a doctor could be sued for malpractice, i.e. a botched operation, the likelihood of his being either sued or arrested because the patient changed their mind later, I would think is virtually nill. In fact, vasectomies are reversible (at significant cost), so I would guess that tubal ligations are also. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 12:24, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

The leading case in this area is Chester v Afshar. The surgeon wasn't incompetent, but the patient claimed that she wouldn't have consented to the operation if she'd known the risk of failure. The court ruled (by a 3-2 majority, with powerful dissenting opinions - "[T]his argument is about as logical as saying that if one had been told, on entering a casino, that the odds on No 7 coming up at roulette were only 1 in 37, one would have gone away and come back next week") that her consent was invalid. Tevildo (talk) 12:50, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

That's why, at least at the places I've gone for minor surgery, the waiver states the risks along with stating precisely what the surgery does. So if someone were to claim they didn't know tubal ligation would render them sterile, the judge would likely say, "Did you read it before you signed it?" Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 12:55, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the answers so far. The main issue seems to be a perceived unnecessary element for the surgery. How about psychological issues? After reading the Hysterectomy article there seems to be a reason for gender reassignment surgery. Would other psychological issues, such as an extreme hate for one's own reproductive system to the point of self harm count as a good enough reason? Again, purely hypothetical.

Ahh, but that is (arguably) a genuine medical reason. There was a case some years ago when a patient suffering from body dysmorphia had his leg amputated, because he would have cut it off himself if left to his own devices. I assume the hypothetical case you mention would be similar. Tevildo (talk) 21:11, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

In the specific case of sex reassignment surgeries there are usually some quite involved processes before they will be performed including a reasonable term of psychological evaluation to ensure the person has no other underlying issues and is not likely to change their mind, and other stuff like real life experiences. This is discussed in Sex reassignment surgery and Legal aspects of transsexualism to some extent, including specific mention of NHS requirements. I would note that while private surgeries may not have the same requirements as NHS ones, there would likely still be some reasonably strong requirements. While I don't know much about the leg amputation case my guess is that there would have been attempts to 'treat' the body dysmorphia before surgery was contemplated. And multiple parties including I suspect at least one psychologist had to concur, including perhaps some sort of ethics review board. In any case, I'm going to go out on a limb here and presume this is related to the question on the science desk. In that specific case there are several obvious issues. For starters if you are so terrified of getting raped, that sounds like another problem that needs to be dealt with in some way before such drastic surgery will even be considered. Similar if the person is terrified of getting pregnant, well again that's likely to be dealt with whether to determine there's an underlying reason for the fear of pregnancy (which is pretty low risk if you don't engage in sexual intercourse) that can be 'treated' or just to do some form of (probably reversible) sterilisation. Nil Einne (talk) 11:47, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

Here's the story on the leg amputation case - [19]. The surgeon responsible wasn't struck off, but the hospital refused to allow him to do any more such operations becuase it would "damage their reputation". Definitely a very grey area of medical ethics. Tevildo (talk) 12:19, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

Stout-Lager beer

Can the Stout beer be considered a Lager? What kind of yeast should I use to make a Stout? 82.59.68.232 (talk) 19:37, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Stout says "Stout and porter are dark beers, and more specifically ales..." Friday (talk) 19:40, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

I think just as long as you have a good brewing yeast you can use any kind. It is specifically the chocolate malt and black malt that gives the stout its dark yet smooth taste (well that depends, of course theres stouts which arent particularly smooth, like rauchbiers). --Saddhiyama (talk) 21:19, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Well, if stouts are normally ale yeast, you're going to have a rather unconventional one if you use lager yeast. What you end up with may be more of a dunkle than a stout. Friday (talk) 21:22, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

That is of course very true. I mainly wanted to stress that the black colour and flavour itself mostly comes from the way the malt has been roasted, but of course the yeast does play a very important part in the components of the beer as well. --Saddhiyama (talk) 21:27, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Thanks to all of you. My real aim was just to make a dark beer using Lager yeast, so Dunkel style will be perfect! 15 - 18° C (59 - 64.4° F) could be good? Or should I wait some week for autumn's cold? 87.6.126.52 (talk) 23:59, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

On the subject of definitions, an ale is top-fermented (yeast lies of top), larger bottom. All such drinks are beers. The medieval distinction was between ales (no hops) and beers (with hops), but that language usage is obsolete. --Leon (talk) 13:41, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

Davy Crockett (nuclear device)

How long might it take Iran and North Korea to produce personal portable nuclear weapons like our Davy Crocett and distribute them to suicide bombers and send them to the US? -- Taxa (talk) 23:32, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Making very small and compact warheads is extremely difficult—the sort of thing that a very well-developed nuclear state could do, but not a new one. It is generally agreed that in order to really develop them, you need to test fire a number of weapons first (you can't just work it out from first principles).

If Iran and North Korea really set their minds to it, they could probably manage it in, I don't know, fifteen years or so, as long as they were able to have a few significant test series in that time (e.g. being able to detonate four or five different designs). That would be a very optimistic guess. More likely would be twenty or thirty years. Keep in mind it took the US twenty years to develop the Davy Crockett originally itself—and that was during a period in which it spends billions of dollars on weapons development. More is publicly known now than was known then, but even so, Iran and North Korea don't have one tenth of the nuclear resources of the United States.

A bigger and better question is whether they would bother. Tactical nuclear weapons are very expensive, very hard to make, and giving them to random terrorists is such a reckless and dangerous thing to do that anybody who wants to stay in power would know better. If you start distributing tactical nuclear weapons, do not be surprised if one goes off somewhere you don't want it to. I don't see this as likely at all—what they want is something of a credible deterrence, something that will keep the U.S. (or Israel) from bombing them. Developing tactical nukes won't do that.

Note that it is much easier to make a nuclear bomb that is, say, the size of a Volkswagen bug. If you wanted to send nukes to the US, you'd find it much easier to make a few of those, put them onto tanker ships, and slip them into the barely-monitored US ports. If you were clever about it, you could take out Boston, San Francisco, and New York for probably 1/10,000th the cost that it would take to develop tactical nuclear weapons. --98.217.14.211 (talk) 00:28, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

But I'm sure we would know about the construction and deployment of a volkswagon size bomb on any size ship coming from Iran or North Korea going by out ability to stop shipments from North Korea. But then we did not know about 9/11 so... -- Taxa (talk) 01:48, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

Really? I don't think so. Not only does North Korea have a large cargo ship fleet of its own (167 ships in 2006, says the CIA), it would be relatively trivial (if you had a high motivation for doing it) to "loose" a cargo container (each of which are large enough to hold a few automobiles—or bombs) in the system (transfer it from one port to another, from one ship to another, etc.). U.S. ports are notoriously insecure and there are several million cargo containers shipped to the United States each year, with a minimal of inspection and examination. That's a MUCH larger national security threat than the threat of tactical nukes. Again, it would cost probably 1/10,000th (ballpark) the cost to work out an operation like that than to both developing the nuclear infrastructure needed to make tactical nukes (which are much more dangerous for the developing country to use, anyway). --98.217.14.211 (talk) 13:23, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

It's unlikely they would ship directly from North Korea. And I doubt it would be a VW, more like a Smart Car, as kind of a little joke on us. "Smart Car Bomb". Get it? Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 01:59, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

So Davy Crocket died at El Alamo - was Davy Crockett (nuclear device) exploded at Los Alamos? Another little nuclear humor. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 02:04, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

I don't know. I'm still trying to figure out why 9/11 instead of 7/11. -- Taxa (talk) 04:51, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

Just because they work at and manage many 7/11 stores? That does not mean they would choose 7/11 as the date for an attack. I don't think anyone has determined why 9/11/01 was chosen. For all we know, it might have been the date they got the best airline fare. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 09:25, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

I agree, it is very unlikely they would try this. You can't actually use nuclear weapons, you just hold on to them as a deterrent (the only ones ever used were used when the USA was the only country that had them). You would only use them if you face complete destruction anyway, since any use of nuclear weapons will get you destroyed (see Mutual assured destruction). The only exception is if you have some way to stop anyone else attacking you with nuclear weapons, which is why Russia was so opposed to the USA's planned missile shield (well, one reason, anyway) - I can't see Iran or North Korea developing an effective missile shield, no-one else has. If you do face destruction then you need to attack quickly, so missiles are the way to go - a suitcase bomb would take too long to get into position (you can't really stash it in the target country, too great a chance of being caught - you can't develop something like that without people noticing, so the local security agencies would be on the lookout). --Tango (talk) 01:30, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

Suitcase nuke is relevant reading. Tempshill (talk) 05:33, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

September 19

Screens of Hackers

What do the typical black-hat hacker seen on his/her monitor when he/she is hacking? Do they actually use some sort of command-line interface as often depicted in movies? Or do they use programs with a GUI? Acceptable (talk) 01:19, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

If they were to hack using the equivalent of the remote assistance software that comes with XP then it would probably be capable of a GUI interface. Most likely though there is no command line or GUI interface and whatever they want is handled entirely by pre-programmed stuff and automation. -- Taxa (talk) 01:52, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

You might get more responses if you ask this question at the Computing Desk.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 07:52, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

It looks like you're hacking a system. Would you like help? I'm not sure there is a "typical black-hat hacker" that we all know about, but it no doubt depends on the exploit and system in question. There are some "hacking" programs like BackOrifice (or whatever the modern equivalent is) and the like that give GUI interfaces for interacting with another system. No doubt there are some who would do it all at a command line. Today much if not most "black hat" activity takes place because of software viruses and worms that give remote control over a machine, which could be either of those possibilities (or, as with a botnet, neither—the machine just starts waiting for instructions that are sent en masse). --98.217.14.211 (talk) 13:59, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

A concrete (and fairly well-known) example would be the appearance of Nmap in The Matrix. 94.168.184.16 (talk) 19:35, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

odc hubs in gurgaon

name the odc hubs in gurgaon

"Please" and a signature would be nice.--88.109.168.43 (talk) 14:06, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

Don't bite the newbies. --98.217.14.211 (talk) 14:46, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

Did you mean "open database connectivity hubs in Gurgaon" or something else - if this is a computing question please use the computer reference desk83.100.251.196 (talk) 14:44, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

Can you clarify what you mean by "ODC"? --98.217.14.211 (talk) 14:46, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

Googling "odc hubs gurgaon" seems to indicate the OP is asking about hubs for oDC, Opera's DC++, which is a DC++-based client for the Direct Connect network (according to our disambig page). 152.16.59.102 (talk) 08:59, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

Is there a term for finding a word odd after hearing it repeated....

...may times over? When it starts to seem like a weird word after hearing it over and over.----occono (talk) 15:24, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

No, but I know what you mean—when the sound of the word starts to slip in your mind from the meaning of it! --98.217.14.211 (talk) 18:12, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

Semantic satiation. Vranak (talk) 19:02, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

Thanks very much!----occono (talk) 20:35, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

There was a very similar discussion recently at the Language Reference Desk (now archived). See Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Archives/Language/2009 September 11#is there a term for the phenomenon where - —— Shakescene (talk) 05:24, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

Library Card Limitations

I was told, by a friend, that an Illinois public library card or student ID can be used at any public library in Illinois. Is this true? I'm scouring the web looking for this info, but I'm only finding info on getting cards, not limits or legalities. --HitmanNumber86 (talk) 17:04, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

I do not believe that all Illinois libraries would let you check out books from their collections just because you had a card from some school or some other library. I know that there are clusters of libraries in certain geographic areas which honor each others cards, sometimes with restrictions on how many books the nonresident can check out at a time, but their computers are interconnected, so they can verify that you do not have excessive overdue books at the other library, or that the card has not been reported lost. You are generally welcome to enter a library and read books and periodicals in the library, but you are not always welcome to walk out with an armload of their holdings, when they cannot verify that your card is valid and that your home library hasn't placed restrictions. Edison (talk) 19:21, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

From a quick google i found "A Bloomingdale Public Library cardholder in good standing may use their card at most Illinois public libraries to check out materials."[20] and "You also may use your card at any library in Illinois that participates in reciprocal borrowing."[21] This may not be applicable to all libraries, some make have other terms and conditions and it would be best to check yourself by going into your local library and asking them. Nanonic (talk) 23:50, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

what is this snake

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file:///E:/DCIM/101MSDCF/DSC01003.JPG

You need to upload the image to an image hosting service (such as ImageShack) and then post a link here. The file path that you have given us is local to your computer, and can't be accessed by us. 94.168.184.16 (talk) 19:17, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

Ilsa, She-Wolf of the SS - realistic background?

I just saw Ilsa, She-Wolf of the SS for the first time today. I knew in advance it included some pretty graphic sex and violence, but I was still amazed about how far the violence went. Now, this is of course a purposeful exaggeration on how far the violence went in Nazi concentration camps, but even what actually happened in the concentration camps is shockingly gruesome. Even though even my father hadn't even been born back in the Nazi times, from what I've read, I know that the Nazis really did do deadly medical experiments on human subjects, such as infect them with diseases on purpose. My question is, how closely does the film match what really happened, or does it exaggerate much? Did the real-life Nazis perform their cruelty primarily out of scientific and militaristic curiosity (with disregard about the human rights of their subjects), or sheer lust for violence? JIP | Talk 19:00, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

At least some of the things mentioned at, for example, Nazi human experimentation do seem to brutally cruel but aimed at yielding useful results. However, I struggle to think of any plausible reason for some things. e.g. (from Mengele: "He supervised an operation by which two Gypsy children were sewn together to create conjoined twins; the hands of the children became badly infected where the veins had been resected, this also caused gangrene."). 94.168.184.16 (talk) 19:25, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

"... a purposeful exaggeration on how far the violence went in Nazi concentration camps, ..."

Wherever you live the school-system has oviously shortchanged you regarding 20th Century History. The Nazi killed nine million people in their death camps: Jews, Gypsies, Poles, Socialist, Russians, Homosexuals, etc, etc. The "medical experiments," gruesome as they were, couned as nothing compared to the millions gassed, starved, or worked to death.

The truth of the matter is that although this didn't take place in ancient or medieval times, or in some far corner of the world, but just a few decades ago in rhe cenrer of Europe, and the Western Democracies did nothing about it. So, ashamed and embarassed, they don't talk about it much, hoping everyone will forget. B00P (talk) 20:15, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

Who is "they" here? I studied Nazi Germany for three years at school, and that's by no means exceptional in the UK. Algebraist 21:13, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

Until recently, the holocaust was a compulsory part of the UK curriculum. There was quite an outcry when it was removed - it is now up to individual schools (actually, that may not have taken effect yet, it was very recent). So, not having studied Nazi Germany would be exceptional in the UK. --Tango (talk) 00:56, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

A false outcry - it hasn't been removed at all. See [22]. -Elmer Clark (talk) 10:16, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

I was specifically asking about the medical experiments. I do know the Nazis really did gas, starve, and work people to death in concentration camps. My question is, how close to real life are the experiments in this film? Or would exactly such things have actually happened? JIP | Talk 04:56, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

You may also be interested to read the article on the Japanese experimentation on humans during WWII at Unit 731#Activities for an overview of the the types of experiments another combatant country undertook. Nanonic (talk) 01:02, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

Mengele is pretty bad, worse than fiction. Gristly, painful experiments on people. The heredity of eye color and shape was of great interest to scientists at the time—so he cut out the eyes of children, especially twins, especially if they were slightly different from one another, and then killed the kids. Just absurdly cruel stuff, even for the atmosphere of cruelty that it was embedded in. --98.217.14.211 (talk) 03:13, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

A particular scene that comes to mind is where Ilsa invites the General over for dinner, and the main attraction at the dinner is a female concentration camp prisoner who is killed by hanging, solely for the amusement of the dinner guests. Would such an event have happened in real life? JIP | Talk 19:16, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

September 20

Why are rowers Caucasian?

Why are most international/Olympic level rowers all Caucasian? How come there are little to none black, hispanic or asian rowers? Acceptable (talk) 00:33, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

I would pretty much guarantee the rowers from Nigeria are black, the ones from Mexico are hispanic and those from China are asian. Do you perhaps mean Olympic level rowers from one country in particular? Nanonic (talk) 00:42, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

I suspect it's because rowing is a relatively expensive sport. You need a boat, a boathouse to store it in, and in the Third World, probably a guard to see it doesn't get stolen from the boathouse. It's also basically a European sport (see History of rowing). Clarityfiend (talk) 02:47, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

To clarify, looking at past results of World Championships and Olympics, most of the crew of podium finishers are Caucasian. Acceptable (talk) 05:37, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

2008 report, "Looks like China’s plan to beef up its rowing program to win gold medals in Beijing is coming together smoothly.

At last weekend’s World Cup regatta in Lucerne, Switzerland, Chinese rowers won five gold medals in the 14 events, and seven medals overall. Those five golds equaled the number of golds they won last year in Amsterdam, when they stunned the world with their recent surge in the sport." Fightingthemall (talk) 09:40, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

It's amazing what 10-year-olds can do these days, isn't it? :) --KageTora - SPQW - (影虎) (talk) 16:43, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

What? --Tango (talk) 17:28, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, just a reference to the last Olympic games. No offence intended. --KageTora - SPQW - (影虎) (talk) 18:05, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

Getting bigger

I know it's a bit silly asking here, because all the information is out there (on the nets), and it's unlikely that anything will actually help, but I'm asking about ways to increase body weight for very high-metabolism individuals.

The obvious answer is just to eat more, and then the obvious response to that is that eating more just forces your body to digest quicker, but the truth is that everyone thinks they know some separate solution, and everyone seems to respond differently to different diets.

I've personally been trying pretty hard for the last 4 years, which gives quite a bit of time to try each described method and see which work and which don't. Being a glutton didn't work for me at all; at my most extreme I was on a high carbohydrate diet (eggs, rice, red meat, etc.) at four meals a day in combination with "weight gain" protein, and I couldn't keep up with that for more than a few weeks because it made me feel sick every day; I just couldn't put that much food into my body. Never mind that I actually lost weight; I'd be sweating buckets overnight and taking extra long in the toilet.

The diet that worked best involved two high-carbohydrate meals a day heavy protein shakes 2 or 3 times after/before eating (tried both) and after working out. That again didn't really work though because my body can't take that much protein. The weight gain was minimal anyway, only about 2-3 kgs.

I have a friend that is a marathon runner, similar body type, and he walks and talks in like slow-motion, says he's keeping his energy use down (lowering his metabolism) and he's always eating carbohydrates; it doesn't seem to make much of a difference with him either though.

Is there anything else that I might not have tried? Is "lowering" my metabolism an option? Note: I'm not looking for supplements, moreso because I'm not in the US and I wouldn't be able to find most available anyway. 210.254.117.186 (talk) 07:33, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

Sorry for the stupid question - but do you want to get fat, or grow more muscle - if it's muscle there are plenty of resources on the internet, as well as local organisations (eg gyms) - that will be able to help you. The basic principle is that you lift or move heavy weights or forces (above what you normally do) coupled with a suitable diet.

however to give any more information would be in the realms of medical type advice, and I am not a health professional...

Even the 'barbels' you can buy from shops suggests "consult your doctor before beginning a program of weightlifting" - in case you have any underlying medical condition, and also to make sure you don't overdo it etc..

83.100.251.196 (talk) 10:05, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

It's not a stupid question but you have to realize that it's not really a "work out and get big" kind of issue. I am physically active, and I've been on hard weights routines before (trying out many different intervals) but even with that I don't gain any weight, I put on a little muscle here and there but I often end up looking skinnier than I already am; I lose the little fat I have on my face and shoulders and I turn into a slightly-muscly skeleton! So the only thing I want to do is "get big": I can adjust how much of that is fat and how much of that is muscle after I get there heh. 210.254.117.186 (talk) 14:50, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

Well lucky you - you seem to be one of those who can eat fatty foods! Seriously, if you want to gain weight, eat fats. I agree with 83.100: if you want to grow muscle, find a gym and get someone trained in nutrition to help you, rather than rely on a bunch of unqualified jerks on t'internet. --TammyMoet (talk) 10:16, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

I had a nutritionist a couple years ago; he probably had a lot of knowledge and knew a lot about getting certain people into shape, and building muscle, and keeping people healthy, but nothing he said really worked (he was especially insistent on certain supplements and minerals that just ended up costing me way too much money), so I guess he didn't really know how to handle people with really high metabolism. 210.254.117.186 (talk) 14:50, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

Not medical advice, just an anecdote. I used to be similar in my eating habits and inability to gain any weight. About the time I hit 23, something magically changed, and suddenly I found it was pretty easy to pack on pounds and pretty hard to get them off! I then came to the realization that while being a "bigger" guy at age 18 had some appeal, being a thin guy with a pot belly at 25 was pretty gross. I've since managed to take some of that off, desperately wanting to be the thin guy I was at 18. So I might recommend you just enjoy what you have to offer and not worry so much about it. Eating healthily will make you feel better and that's mostly what matters. If it's trouble with getting girls, just wait a little while and pretty soon most of your "bigger" contemporaries will have turned into little fatties and you'll be looking pretty acceptable in comparison. ;-) And you can do it knowing that one of the main factors for longevity is a low caloric intake. Anyway, anecdote done, proceed how you wish! --98.217.14.211 (talk) 14:09, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

I'm 26, and feeling it like you say, and my father probably has the same body type as me so he's dealt with it too, but even if I can get a "pot belly" now by eating unhealthy foods, I do think I live pretty healthy and I don't see why I can't get "big" in a healthy sense. Still, I haven't actually gained any weight since I was 18, so I might not change that much. 210.254.117.186 (talk) 14:50, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

This thread really is getting too close to medical advice, but I would advise asking a doctor about your thyroid level and other things that might affect your metabolism. When I was hyperthyroid (producing too much thyroid hormone), it was essentially impossible for me to get fat and hard to avoid getting dangerously thin (apart from many other dangers of hyperthyroidism). Those who are hypothyroid (too little hormone) have the opposite problem, among many others: not only can they be lethargic; it's hard for them to avoid gaining weight. An endocrinologist or a good general practitioner could also examine other things that might affect your metabolism. While this is probably less true today, it was common for general practitioners to miss thyroid disorders (mine wasn't diagnosed until a week after I had a stroke at 47.) And, to repeat, I'm no doctor, so it's quite likely that none of this applies; it's just one possibility. —— Shakescene (talk) 17:52, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

I've got to agree with the person above about "muscle turns to flab" - here's my anecdote too - I used to be a thin type, and I did a lot of walking and cycling. Around 20something I started doing weights and eating a lot of meat.. Result I got a lot more musclely due to the extra effort. ok. Problem was that I couldn't keep the extra effort up long term (over more than 10 years) - which left me slightly fatty (or just plain old fat) - and as a result - I couldn't enjoy walking or cycling as much as I used to (especially in the summer months where the very slight extra fat I had innevitably gained meant I was finding it just to hot, where before i was find doing exercise. Like the poster above - it look me a long while to get back to 'natural me'.

Anyway clearly you are physically active - but gaining 'muscle bulk' is not the same as doing exercise - it's a completely different way. I recommend talking to someone at a gym or whatever (a book or something) about it - partly because we can't give medical advice and this is getting periously close - but as I at hinted above - the trick to gain muscle is not any sort of carb burning exercise - but trying to lift stuff you simply cant lift more than 5 times... And a lot of steak.. (But don't overeat which is what you were doing) By the way this method will make your face fat with muscle too - so don't worry about that - the gurning effect when busting a nut trying to lift big rocks makes even the face musclely. If you want fat later on just stop exercising...83.100.251.196 (talk) 18:43, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

A little more - I know it's impossible to put you off - but try walking around with a sack that weighs 3 stone on your back for a bit and see if it really appeals - that's where most people who gain weight end up. It just ends up being a burden.. Chances are you'll actually reduce your overall health level from what it is now - which in all probability is a perfect balance.83.100.251.196 (talk) 19:09, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

By the way why not see a doctor or similar about it - see if they can detect any problems, also have you measured your Body Mass Index - just to get a feel of actually how thin you are - you might be feeling thinner than you actually are (which a lot of people get)83.100.251.196 (talk) 19:20, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

An car in a Music Video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFavW0bfbZc&NR=1 , What car is the white car , that Don drives?

I think it's a Fiat Uno. SteveBaker (talk) 14:51, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

Can't fly over Chinese airspace?

Recently I flew from Kuala Lumpur to Seoul on Malaysian Airlines. The most direct route would have been right over China, but instead the plane flew to the northeast and then north, via Taiwanese airspace. I thought that was odd. Then a few months later, I flew from Seoul to Hong Kong, and the plane again avoided flying over the Chinese mainland by going south across the strait, then west to Hong Kong. And this was on Cathay Pacific, a Chinese (well, Hong Kong) airline. What's the deal? 58.161.196.113 (talk) 14:51, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

See Cathay Pacific VR-HEU - you really don't want to fly into chinese airspace unless you have to. Exxolon (talk) 15:45, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

Also, flying over ocean has some benefits - there are no (or fewer) taxes, fees, or permits, required from the country you might overfly; there are fewer concerns about airspeed and its impact on noise; and changes to the route require little negotiation. I doubt the present concern is being shot down by Chinese air defense; but old, cautious mindsets die hard in aviation. Nimur (talk) 15:52, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

Considering many international airlines fly in and out of China these days, I should think that 50-year-old shootdowns have very little to do with it. The direct line between KL and Seoul goes directly over the second busiest airport in the world. That's airspace that you don't fly through unless you have to. FiggyBee (talk) 16:32, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

45, and 49 horsepower... top speed?

okay , I own two cars FIAT Uno, with 45 horsepower and a Skoda 120 L, with a 49 horsepower, what are their top speeds?

Which models? and if you have that information you could search yourself for "fiat uno model top speed" on the internet.83.100.251.196 (talk) 18:33, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

What are these bugs/creatures? Mosquitoes?

I had a bucket of plain water sitting in my backyard and I emptied it out by spilling it onto the ground. When I did, there was a bit of buzzing/chirping sound and some bubbles in the water? What's causing this? Could it be mosquitoes? How long does a mosquito need standing water before it becomes an adult mosquito? 24.6.46.106 (talk) 19:40, 20 September 2009 (UTC)