User talk:AndyTheGrump

Notice of Edit warring noticeboard discussion

Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion involving you at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring regarding a possible violation of Wikipedia's policy on edit warring. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by JamesB17 (talk • contribs) 01:49, 1 September 2013 (UTC)

Retired.

That's disappointing

That's disappointing. I was hoping to talk over with you an idea or two I have for reforming the ethos here. Well, I hope you reconsider. --Anthonyhcole (talk) 09:46, 5 February 2013 (UTC)

What Anthonyhcole said. Come back soon, please. Message from this disgustingly saccharine sweet nice guy on Wikipedia, Peter aka --Shirt58 (talk) 12:27, 5 February 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, c'mon back, how else are we going to stem the tide of Bloomex puppets? --CliffC (talk) 00:52, 2 March 2013 (UTC)

I've noticed that Wikipedia has fallen into disrepair over the last couple of years, but that doesn't mean that it can't be fixed. All we really need is a better notification system so that users will be notified whenever any of their edits are modified or reverted. Jarble (talk) 17:11, 20 March 2013 (UTC)

How is WP:WATCHLIST not good enough? As for Andy, via email, he knows how I feel about his departure. Flyer22 (talk) 17:51, 20 March 2013 (UTC)

Nice to see you back, Andy. Flyer22 (talk) 07:49, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

Thanks - but I'm only intending to get involved the Boston bombings article, and maybe other 'breaking news' stories in future, if I get the urge. They need all the help they can get to avoid collapsing in a mire of trivia and moonbattery if they aren't watched, and I can walk away as they settle down, without having to worry about the long-term (where the moonbats will no doubt creep back in, but are of less consequence). Basically, such articles make a mockery of WP:NOTNEWS, and any attempt to edit without falling foul of WP:3RR (amongst other policies) is doomed to failure. The way I see it, they are best edited by people who aren't over-concerned by the day-to-day trivia of Wikipedia, and are more concerned about actually presenting decent articles even if it involves breaking a rule or two, and telling the less clued-up 'contributors' to go boil their heads. This will of course put me at risk of getting blocked, but I think the results are worth the risks - and at some point, Wikipedia is going to have to acknowledge formally that we can't handle breaking news within existing policy, and either stop creating such articles (fat chance) or find a way to constrain content to something approaching journalism - which will probably involve abandoning the 'anyone can edit' mantra, and accepting that many people shouldn't... AndyTheGrump (talk) 08:11, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) Grump, please do come back full time. You and Tarc are my favorite bullshit busters. (And in other news, it appears I've been given the sysop buttons. Shome mishtake, shurely? Ed.)--Shirt58 (talk) 10:39, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

Bullshit busters? LOL, that's a great way to put it. You are back for a good cause, Andy, and what you stated about that makes perfect sense. And I'm right there with you on the "many people shouldn't" edit Wikipedia aspect, which is something WP:Disruptive editing and WP:COMPETENCE touch on. As we know, even some people who don't fall into those categories have proven detrimental to Wikipedia. Flyer22 (talk) 11:24, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

what's the problem exactly?

hi. you reverted a good-faith and valid edit of mine for basically an inaccurate and befuddling reason. You said "there's no such thing as a 'pressure cooker explosive'". Huh? Yes there is, it's a "bomb". It's called "explosive" in the other article... So how can you say that there's "no such thing"? A "bomb" IS an "explosive". What exactly is the problem? I reworded that way, because "pressure cooker bombs" in the very very first sentence just doesn't sound right, right off the bat. But "pressure cooker" should be in the lede right after to simply elaborate it. But the point is it's called an "explosive" in the other article. So your revert was invalid, to be blunt, and the wording is arguably better this way now, in the lede. Regards. Gabby Merger (talk) 07:19, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

No. A Pressure cooker bomb is a bomb made by placing explosives in a pressure cooker. It is the content that explodes, not the container. As for what the other article says, we don't cite ourselves as a source. AndyTheGrump (talk) 07:25, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

Welcome back. Collect (talk) 11:31, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

WTF, the same as Collect's having, hope you're still grumpy! CaptainScreebo ^Parley! 23:07, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

IT IS CALLED

-

? AndyTheGrump (talk) 02:14, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

Vandalism, and maybe finally now semi-protecting the Kermit Gosnell article

Andy,

I know you not, but I agree with at least the first couple of things you posted on the Kermit Gosnell article's "Talk" page; and so I'm now asking you to please go read the two sections I just created on it (items 20 and 21, I believe) and see if you agree; and then to post, accordingly there, in response.

I'm not fan of semi-protecting articles; but this one has gone from such obscurity that some were calling for its deletion to, since FOX called attention to the story, an article that has become sufficiently hot that it's getting too many drive-by vandalisms, in my opinion.

Or am I wrong? I am, seriously, one grump to another, interested in your opinion. Thanks!

Gregg L. DesElms (Username: Deselms) (talk) 21:53, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

If you are referring to this edit [1], it doesn't actually fall under the Wikipedia definition of vandalism, as I see it. It is certainly inappropriate, and has been reverted - though you could have done this yourself. I'm not active much on Wikipedia now (see above), and suggest that if you are worried about the article you raise it at WP:BLPN, and ask for a few more eyes on it. I doubt that you'd get far asking for it to be semi-protected though, on the basis of a single edit. AndyTheGrump (talk) 22:50, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

Dispute resolution

Hi.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard#Juggalos_.28gang.29 — Preceding unsigned comment added by AnnerTown (talk • contribs) 09:07, 25 April 2013 (UTC)

Hello! There is a DR/N request you may have interest in.

This message is being sent to you let you know of a discussion at the Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard regarding a content dispute discussion you may have participated in. Content disputes can hold up article development and make editing difficult for editors. You do not need to participate however, you are invited to help find a resolution. The thread is "Juggalos (gang)". Please join us to help form a consensus. Thank you! EarwigBot ^{operator / talk} 03:03, 26 April 2013 (UTC)

Rick Nicholls

Andy -- I was hoping you could look into the current (as of this post at least) version of the Rick Nicholls article. I stumbled on his page and thought the last contribution is a BLP issue. You have more experience in that area than myself and I would be much more comfortable if you weighed in. Thanks! Lettik (talk) 14:38, 26 April 2013 (UTC)

New section for misguided attempt at intimidation

Your recent editing history at Psychotronics shows that you are currently engaged in an edit war. Being involved in an edit war can result in you being blocked from editing—especially if you violate the three-revert rule, which states that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring—even if you don't violate the three-revert rule—should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly.

To avoid being blocked, instead of reverting please consider using the article's talk page to work toward making a version that represents consensus among editors. See BRD for how this is done. You can post a request for help at a relevant noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, you may wish to request temporary page protection.
You have ignored the talk page repeatedly, ignoring the need for consensus and discussion. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Damonthesis (talk • contribs) 21:27, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

Nope - it doesn't work like that. When you revert multiple editors, it is you that is edit-warring... AndyTheGrump (talk) 21:33, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

May 2013

You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war according to the reverts you have made on British Pakistanis. Users are expected to collaborate with others, to avoid editing disruptively, and to try to reach a consensus rather than repeatedly undoing other users' edits once it is known that there is a disagreement.

Please be particularly aware, Wikipedia's policy on edit warring states:

1. Edit warring is disruptive regardless of how many reverts you have made; that is to say, editors are not automatically "entitled" to three reverts.
2. Do not edit war even if you believe you are right.

If you find yourself in an editing dispute, use the article's talk page to discuss controversial changes; work towards a version that represents consensus among editors. You can post a request for help at an appropriate noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases it may be appropriate to request temporary page protection. If you engage in an edit war, you may be blocked from editing. Stop removing cited text for spurious reasons, it is not difficult to find sources for that content Darkness Shines (talk) 08:25, 5 May 2013 (UTC)

Hello, I'm BracketBot. I have automatically detected that your edit to Franco Reviglio may have broken the syntax by modifying 1 "{}"s. If you have, don't worry, just edit the page again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on my operator's talk page.

Thanks, BracketBot (talk) 21:04, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

Sorry!

Ah sorry abut the comment at ANI that comment wasn't aimed at you. I was referring to the IP's talk page they claim they weren't threatening legal action but proceed to use the words legal action and libel right after that...Cameron11598 (Converse) 20:05, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

Susan J. Elliott

By the way, Orange Mike has blocked her IP address for legal threats. Robert McClenon (talk) 20:11, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

Yes, I am aware of that - and as I've made clear at ANI, I consider it entirely inappropriate that he did, given his involvement. AndyTheGrump (talk) 20:14, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

And while I disagree, I respect your reasoning and your desire to respect our processes. No hard feelings at all on my end, Andy. --Orange Mike | Talk 20:15, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

Nomination of 2013 Mother's Day Parade shooting for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article 2013 Mother's Day Parade shooting is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2013 Mother's Day Parade shooting until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. Thryduulf (talk) 13:36, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

Thanks!

That fix on the Mongolian People's Republic article is what I was trying to do. I don't know why it didn't go through the first time... Odin of Trondheim (talk) 19:41, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

No problem. Between us we got it right in the end. AndyTheGrump (talk) 19:55, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

Ahmadiyya

Hi Andy, I had added a few lines to the Ahmadiyya on Israel. The lines are fully within the Ahmadiyya faith. I am myself an Ahmadi and had done so with a correct intention.. Please read the Ahmadiyya Commentary as cited in the Ref. Thanks. Be well. --ڈاکٹر محمد علی (talk) 19:39, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

The correct place to discuss this is at Talk:Ahmadiyya. Regarding your edits, you will have to find published sources that explicitly state that Ahmadis believe such things. Citing verses from Bible or Quran is entirely beside the point. If you aren't already familiar with it, I suggest you read the Wikipedia policy on original research - your own knowledge or opinion regarding the subject matter isn't acceptable as a substitute for verifiable material. AndyTheGrump (talk) 19:51, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

OK. Thanks I will. --ڈاکٹر محمد علی (talk) 21:16, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

Sergey Brin

at "Sergey Brin" article :

false statement that :" at Moscow State University, Jews were required to take their entrance exams in different rooms than non-Jewish applicants, which were nicknamed "gas chambers", and they were marked on a harsher scale."

So, despite I explained that the following statement is false -" According to Brin, at Moscow State University, Jews were required to take their entrance exams in different rooms than non-Jewish applicants, which were nicknamed "gas chambers", and they were marked on a harsher scale." - it is restored by moderator. Ofcource you may claim that it is opinion of mr. Brin (Seregy's father), but the fact is that facts reported in this quote are not true - Yes, I can understand mr. Brin's (the senior) resentment about some aspects of Soviet past and bitter feelings about Moscow University, but wikipedia is not a novel and to cite here obviously false statements would hardly be right...I am not very good in English language(sorry) and so I am not going to involve myself in discussions, but want to remind you some other articles from this same wikipedia about some Nobel Prize winners of Jewish origin who graduated from Moscow State University - look at this :

"Vitaly Lazarevich Ginzburg, ForMemRS[1] (Russian: Вита́лий Ла́заревич Ги́нзбург; October 4, 1916 – November 8, 2009) was a Soviet theoretical physicist, astrophysicist, Nobel laureate, a member of the Soviet and Russian Academies of Sciences and one of the fathers of Soviet hydrogen bomb.[2][3] He was the successor to Igor Tamm as head of the Department of Theoretical Physics of the Academy's physics institute (FIAN), and an outspoken atheist.[4]

Biography

He was born to a Jewish family in Moscow in 1916, the son of an engineer Lazar Efimovich Ginzburg and a doctor Augusta Felgenauer, and graduated from the Physics Faculty of Moscow State University in 1938. He defended his candidate's (Ph.D.) dissertation in 1940, and his doctor's dissertation in 1942."

There are numerous other examples of less known professors of Jewish origin in USSR....You may explore it yourself using this wikipedia. It is just to prove you that not only my own expirience contradict to this ridiculous statement that "at Moscow State University, Jews were required to take their entrance exams in different rooms than non-Jewish applicants, which were nicknamed "gas chambers", and they were marked on a harsher scale.", but also information from this same wikipedia also contradict to this statement. I think that it is your responsibility not to misinform readers - I understand that you report opinion of mr.Brin (father of Sergey Brin), but from reading the text a reader can't understand that this opinion may be not exactly true. I still recommend you to deleat this quotation - it is false and not nesessary even if you want to prove that Jews indeed had some difficulties in USSR (other facts pretty much prove that - no need to use false information to prove that) - so why to oppose obvious fact that this quotation is misleading? Please deleat it yourself - it is a matter of truth vs. false, not a matter of my attempt to prove my point no matter what.I'll come back to read your responce, but will not involve myself in further discussions, - I think that I provided enough proves. (or you may leave a quotation but to change the paragraph so that readers understand that there are alternative opinions about words of mr.Brin regarding practicies of Moscow Univeresity in Soviet times regarding Jews) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.252.74.147 (talk) 21:34, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

The correct place to discuss this is at Sergey Brin. I edited the article to make it clear that this was Michael Brin's assertion. The article did not then state that Jews were discriminated against at Moscow State University. It stated that Michael Brin claimed that they were - and we cite a source which verifies that he made the claim. I suggest you familiarise yourself with Wikipedia policy regarding what is considered a reliable source for article content, and refrain from editing further - if you continue to do so, you are liable to be blocked for violating our policy on edit warring. If you wish to continue this discussion, please do so on the article talk page. AndyTheGrump (talk) 22:04, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

Dear friend.I got the following responce from you - "The correct place to discuss this is at Sergey Brin. I edited the article to make it clear that this was Michael Brin's assertion. The article did not then state that Jews were discriminated against at Moscow State University. It stated that Michael Brin claimed that they were - and we cite a source which verifies that he made the claim. I suggest you familiarise yourself with Wikipedia policy regarding what is considered a reliable source for article content, and refrain from editing further - if you continue to do so, you are liable to be blocked for violating our policy on edit warring. If you wish to continue this discussion, please do so on the article talk page"

I have explained that despite it is cited as Michael Brin's quote (I see that), but it is actually a quote that may constitute a legal matter as far as defamation of Moscow Univercity is concerned (defamation is the communication of a factual statement that harms the reputation of an individual, business etc.) - so you communicated the factual statement of mr.Brin - I see that - but this statement is false and there are numerous proves for that (including other articles from Wikipedia that state that people of Jewish origin were not prohibited to enter faculty of phisics of Moscow University (*I cited for you one of those articles from wiki) as well as those facts about "gas chambers" and separate rooms for Jews in Moscow Univercity are not true - I have explained that my English is not good enough and that explains that I can't maybe express myself in friendly way (that I want to do), but for you English in not foreign language and so I don't understand your cold (to say it mildly) warning not to edit further...I again ask you to kindly reconsider your choice of quotation in the article (I think you can not realise that it is the case of defamation in its pure form)...In case you disagree with my opinion, please, provide me with information where I can file complain because I think that this case is too serious to leave it as it is. I still hope to find understanding with Wikipedia (which I respect a lot) - otherwise I'll have to bring this case for Univercity of Moscow to take this kind of things more officially and according to legal practice and international laws178.252.74.147 (talk) 22:42, 16 May 2013 (UTC).

Please read Wikipedia:No legal threats. Contributors making such threats are liable to be blocked from editing. If you chose to withdraw the threat (which will be necessary for this discussion to continue), please make any further postings at Talk:Sergey Brin as I have asked. This is not the appropriate place to discuss article content, and I will accordingly not respond to any more postings here. AndyTheGrump (talk) 22:49, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

Ref desk

Regarding this,[2] note that I deleted it as soon as it was asked, and someone put it right back. I then figured someone else might come to their senses and zap it. Thanks for being the one. :) ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 18:03, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

Thanks - frankly I'm disappointed that it stayed up as long as it did. Some people have no sense. AndyTheGrump (talk) 18:06, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

Yes. Ironically enough, there's easily one or more ways to ask the question without coming off like a racist rant. For example: "What is the source for some of today's popular African-American given names?" When I was a kid, it seemed like at least half of the black ballplayers were named "Willie". Names like Denzel and Keisha certainly seem like an interesting improvement. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 19:04, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

baseball Bugs, saying "interesting improvement" is just as bad of you. You saying "names like Denzel and Keisha certainly seem like an interesting improvement" is JUST AS R A C I S T . 'Interesting improvement'? So the names needed to be improved? Should they name their children pilot inspektor? moxie crimefighter? kal-el? wolf? Or are you quoting User:OsmanRF34? 71.191.244.33 (talk) 11:08, 21 June 2013 (UTC)

I suggest you have a cup of tea there ... that you see "racism" in what most would see as a reasonable comment is not going to get you far here. Andy and Bugs are certainly colorful on Wikipedia, but racist they are not. Collect (talk) 13:00, 21 June 2013 (UTC)

Collect, I suggest you MYOB. I asked baseball bugs to clarify.
And just so you know, saying " interesting improvement" is not a compliment. 71.191.244.33 (talk) 00:19, 22 June 2013 (UTC)

And I suggest that you find somewhere else to argue. Or even better, find something more useful to do. AndyTheGrump (talk) 00:24, 22 June 2013 (UTC)

Dear Mr. Thegrump

I just received your message regarding citing personal interviews. The policy you cite makes perfect sense. Considering wikipedia's 5th pillar regarding "Wikipedia does not have firm rules," and considering that I don't want to teach my young charges to lie, can you help me find a way to bridge the gap between what the students did and what wikipedia allows? Is there some way to cite an oral history? Someway to acknowledge a local expert?

I understand this is not the only thing for you to concern yourself with, I just want to be forthright with the students when I speak to them. I also want to reinforce citing sources. Please, any help would be appreciated.

Mcadorette (talk) 17:41, 19 May 2013 (UTC)mcadorette

About the only way around this I can think of is to get the material published somewhere else first. At a pinch, you might get away with placing the material on your school website (if you have one), and citing that - but this might be seen as questionable per Wikipedia:Verifiability policy as a 'self-published' source, and certainly shouldn't be done with anything that looks contentious or overly-promotional. AndyTheGrump (talk) 17:56, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

Thank you for the quick response. I appreciate your candor.

Mcadorette (talk) 18:01, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

Pubmed indexed journals in Ayurveda

Dear AndyTheGrump, Good evening! I find it extremely important to bring to attention that PubMed indexed journals are really important for the progress of Ayurved in scientific direction. My motive is to put the names of the journals is to percolate the information. If this information will be put, the reader will get the better idea about the topic of 'Science and Ayurveda'. I really appreciate your concern to remove the material as it may not be suitable at that particular place. But can you suggest me a better place for that information? Maybe an article with title - Pubmed indexed journals in Ayurved? There one can write the history, importance, limitations and current journals in Ayurved which are PubMed indexed. Thanks. --Abhijeet Safai (talk) 12:43, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

I very much doubt that an article entitled 'Pubmed indexed journals in Ayurveda' would be acceptable. Wikipedia is not a directory. If individual journals can be shown to be of significance, there may be grounds for discussing them in the Ayurveda article - but this would need evidence from third-party reliable sources. This isn't really the best place to discuss this though - I suggest you discuss article content on Talk:Ayurveda. AndyTheGrump (talk) 12:48, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

Ok. I will copy this discussion there. Thanks. --Abhijeet Safai (talk) 18:16, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

A., RAJA

you dont even have the common sense to explain to me why u have undid my edit, (I have added one appropriate section, I want to know why u think it is in appropriate) think before u write something, dont just revert my edit BLINDLY, JUST BECAUSE UR FRIEND SAID IT ) who ru to report and what would u report??? I WANT TO KNOW WHAT IS WRONG IN THE CATEGORY I ADDED, I WANT TO KNOW, U HEAR ME DO U DO U DO U Murrallli (talk) 14:18, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

TO ME WHAT IS GROSS VIOLATION, EXPLAIN TO ME, EXPLAIN EXPLAIN EXPLAIN EXPLAIN Murrallli (talk) 14:23, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

Raja has been convicted of nothing. I suggest you withdraw your threat immediately - otherwise I will report the matter to WP:ANI. AndyTheGrump (talk) 14:28, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

A. Raja

1. he was in jail for 15 months, and even if he is not convicted, he has half part in the scandal.

2. I did not intend any threat to u, I take it back, but you learn to put proper edit summaries, u addressing me with the word gross violation is not acceptable.

3. You just blindly accused me of gross violation, what should I do for that report??? Time waste Murrallli (talk) 14:37, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

I don't care what you do - since you have violated policy, I am reporting the matter at WP:ANI - I see that this is not an isolated case [3] [4]. AndyTheGrump (talk) 14:44, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

That whether i take back my word or not,

an action was conspired to take on me by you and ur friend, few days earlier itself??? tell me who ru, i think u know me personally and hold grudge on me Murrallli (talk) 14:59, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

you have set the policy ???

your point of view on how to address u is ur policy, not wiki policy, u report me to take action on me for no apparent reason NON SENSEMurrallli (talk) 15:00, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

I suggest you familiarise yourself with Wikipedia policy, then respond at WP:ANI. I shall not respond further here. AndyTheGrump (talk) 15:03, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

Yes, stop spamming Andy's talk page. You don't need to create a new section for each reply/comment you make. Seriously. Flyer22 (talk) 15:06, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

Nadi pariksha

Dear AndyTheGrump, An article, Nadi pariksha has been created. You might be interested to have a look at it. Thanks. --Abhijeet Safai (talk) 11:13, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

See my comments on the article talk page. AndyTheGrump (talk) 14:27, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

Many secondary sources are added and the tag has been removed. Thanks. --Abhijeet Safai (talk) 17:16, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

It is totally fine if the unsourced material is removed. I will try to find the reliable source and will put the materail again with proper sources. About new articles created by me - I am not creating many articles. I am in fact linking the articles related to Ayurveda at the article of Ayurveda. Is it not advisable? Kindly expalin if it is so. Thanks. --Abhijeet Safai (talk) 17:24, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

Dear AndyTheGrump, There are many secondary sources like this one as per this guideline. Thanks. --Abhijeet Safai (talk) 17:32, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

Once again, I will remind you that WP:MEDRS policy applies in this topic area - the sources you have recently cited are not secondary as defined by the guideline, and without such secondary sources, articles are unlikely to meet our notability policies. Whether the article was started by you (as with 'Nadi pariksha') or by another person is immaterial. Wikipedia is not a platform for the promotion of practices not recognised by the medical mainstream, whether 'traditional' or otherwise. AndyTheGrump (talk) 17:33, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for bringing WP:MEDRS to my attention. I was not aware of it. I will go thorough it. I dont think that I am promoting the materil. I am trying to build encyclopedia. There are many many secondary sources which fulfills the criteria. I will try to search them and then we can discuss about specific issue. --Abhijeet Safai (talk) 17:40, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

It is fine for me if the article gets deleted. If it does not meet the notability criteria, it should be deleted. Thanks. --Abhijeet Safai (talk) 17:49, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

Missing trio reversion was bitey

I felt like this edit was a little WP:BITEy since that was the user's first ever edit and you could have easily noticed that nobody had even welcomed them yet since their talk page was a red link. Just thought I'd leave this here and maybe you can be a bit more magnanimous next time. AgnosticAphid talk 15:57, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

I strongly suspect that that wasn't the user's first edit, and that they were the same person who has been adding similar material as User:Hamitdown (see the article history). Note that the link in question was to a BBC story entitled 'Dispute over Amanda Berry rescue story' - User:Hamitdown repeatedly added similar links, without explanation, to various places within the article. And note further that User:Hamitdown has failed to take this to the talk page, or to attempt any meaningful communication whatsoever. AndyTheGrump (talk) 16:06, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

PubMed indexed journals in Ayurveda.

Journal of Ayurveda and Integrative Medicine is one of the indivisual journals. As per your these edits, should we discuss it in the article of Ayurveda? I have posted this on the talk page of Ayurveda. Thanks. --Abhijeet Safai (talk) 18:08, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

I have already made my position clear. I see no legitimate reason for a list of journals. As to whether any of the journals can be cited for article content, that will clearly depend on the particular circumstances. This is all set out in policy, and I see nothing to discuss unless you are making a concrete proposal. AndyTheGrump (talk) 19:19, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

Thanks a lot for answering. I really appriciate the time and energy you are putting to expalin the point patiently. I would request to ignore if some of my actions seems intimidating. They are not. My concern is - how to show appriciation of some of scientific works going on in Ayurveda. I think that PubMed indexed jounals is really a great thing which is happening in Ayurveda. And surely I dont intend to promote Ayurveda here. What I want to convey is - due weitage shold be given to this point in the article as it is am important aspect. Now you are saying about 'concrete proposal'. I really liked the concept. I would take some time and then would come with some concrete proposal. Till that time I would request you to guide me as time permits about it. Thanks. --Abhijeet Safai (talk) 19:28, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

Religious views of Adolf Hitler

You recently undid an edit I made on the Wiki, citing that you my sources "said nothing of the kind". I'm sorry if you were confused and unable to find the relevant information on the websites I provided.

Here is the edit you removed:

However, the Nazis actually banned paganism, while tolerating Christianity. Here are the links since they don't seem to work on your lovely page here. http://www.bbc.co.uk/schools/gcsebitesize/history/tch_wjec/germany19291947/2racialreligiouspolicy2.shtml http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/181472.article

The first link explicitly says that pagans were banned. Click the link and push "CTRL F" on the keyboard, and search for the word "pagan". It will lead you directly to "the kind".

The second link, if you click on it and read the article states

"The paganists found themselves locked in an ultimately futile battle for influence over the "positive Christians" who dominated the higher echelons of the party. While Christians were tolerated, the paganist organisation, the "German faith movement", was banned by the Nazis in 1935."

Again, it might be easier for you rather than having to actually put too much effort in reading, push "CTRL F" on the keyboard and search for the word "pagan". Once you confirm, please get back to me or undo your revert.Greengrounds (talk) 05:18, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

The BBC source does not state that pagans were banned - the word 'Pagan' isn't in the bulleted list of banned groups - it is a sentence following the list (though why you are using GCSE crib notes as a source, I've no idea - I very much doubt they'd be accepted as WP:RS for such matters while we have scholarly articles on the subject.) As for your second source, it states that the pro-Nazi German Faith Movement was ultimately banned. It does not state that paganism was. AndyTheGrump (talk) 05:31, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

So the German Faith Movement, a pagan group was banned. Does that deserve a place in the article?Greengrounds (talk) 07:51, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

If you have a source that makes a direct link between Adolf Hitler's religious views and the banning, it might possibly - though obviously this would depend on the source, and on what it actually said. To make any assumptions about Hitler's reasons for banning the organisation would constitute original research. AndyTheGrump (talk) 12:29, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

In that case, can you please peruse the article? There is a whole section called "Nazi persecution of the church", without links that it had to do with Hitler's religious beliefs. I will remove that section right away, just waiting for you to get back to me. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Greengrounds (talk • contribs) 21:12, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

You seem to be under the misapprehension that I am involved in your long-running debate over the content of this article. I'm not. I have it watchlisted mainly because it has attracted vandalism in the past. I commented on your edit because it clearly wasn't properly sourced. Nothing I have said can have any bearing one way or another on other parts of the article. AndyTheGrump (talk) 21:25, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

March Against Monsanto

In this case, ranting at the Help Desk about the removal of the poorly formatted list of cities had an unintended consequence (to those who wanted it all in the article). I am not convinced that the article is fixable, and I nominated it for deletion. Robert McClenon (talk) 01:03, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

I can certainly see the case for deletion, though there may just about be a case for retention - there seems to have been some media coverage at least: [5]. AndyTheGrump (talk) 01:08, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

3RR

You should be willing to discuss a rationale for removing as you are in danger of violating of the 3-revert rule. 71.2.172.65 (talk) 23:02, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

We do not answer medical questions. AndyTheGrump (talk) 23:04, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

Oldest trick in the book....

Re: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of bullycides - some editors, when they have lost the debate, will try to provoke intemperate responses from their opponents in order to refocus on the discussion on civility issues. Your opinion is prevailing so stop bloody falling for it. It really is the oldest trick in the book. CIreland (talk) 23:33, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

Yeah - you're right of course. I'll try to stay shtum... AndyTheGrump (talk) 23:43, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

Notice of Edit warring noticeboard discussion

Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion involving you at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring regarding a possible violation of Wikipedia's policy on edit warring. Thank you. Ramaksoud2000 ^{(Talk to me)} 05:07, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

Talkback

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favor to ask

Dear Sir,

Can you please delete the page Lego the lone ranger that I created. I did a terrible job! ThanksTheMouthofSauron (talk) 16:37, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

I've tagged it for speedy deletion, which should do the job. AndyTheGrump (talk) 16:46, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

Notice of Edit warring noticeboard discussion

Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion involving you at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring regarding a possible violation of Wikipedia's policy on edit warring. Thank you.

Hey Andy, don't mean to butt in but regarding this, if I were you I'd consider self-reverting and stating you'll take it to the Talk page at the 3RR report. I took a look at the disputed edit, and although it clearly is indeed garbage, it doesn't (in my opinion) quite rise to a BLP violation clearly enough to avoid being counted as a revert per 3RR. The patrolling admin might agree with you but might not. I'd hate to see you blocked for something as silly as that. Just my opinion, worth every penny you paid for it... Zad68 18:46, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but I'm not going to self-revert a POV-pushing WP:BLP violation back into an article. AndyTheGrump (talk) 18:48, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

As you wish, I hope I'm totally wrong about it! Zad68 18:49, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

...and you were 100% right, something for me to learn from about WP:BLP. Zad68 18:56, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

It is always a bit risky arguing the 'WP:BLP is exempt from WP:3RR' line, and I don't recommend it as a general course of action. You do need a strong case, and had Attleboro even made a token effort to tone it down, it might have gone differently. Hopefully we can now sort this out properly once and for all. AndyTheGrump (talk) 19:03, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

NPOV page move

Since when is it considered controversial to move a page to a neutral title? What is controversial? Wikipedia's NPOV policy? --Uncle Ed (talk) 15:09, 31 May 2013 (UTC)

Re: OTRS ticket

The significance is that other OTRS agents can see the communications relevant to the article, and the ticket was provided per request by IRWolfie-. Further discussion can be seen on the article talk page. LFaraone 23:58, 31 May 2013 (UTC)

unnesessory desrtuctive edits going on in Ayurveda article.

respected AndyTheGrump, i would like you to look at the recent removals by Littleolive oil (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Littleolive_oil ) in Ayurveda Article. thanking you. dr nachiket . — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nachiket Vijay Potdar (talk • contribs) 15:42, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

There is nothing 'destructive' in removing copyright violations from articles. Please ensure in future that you do not copy-paste material (except properly marked and attributed quotations) into articles. Wikipedia takes breaches of copyright very seriously. AndyTheGrump (talk) 15:48, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

Respected Sir, Lancet is most respected journel in medicine,as its a quoted in lancet and i being new to wikipedia ,i did the changes unknowingly.But still i want my changes to be resumed and shouldnt be removed for mere langiustic issues.As per your instructions i have made paraphresial changes and even after doing so the content is removed. Being a doctor i feel humiliated even after giving 'The Lancet's ' referense. Please consider. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nachiket Vijay Potdar (talk • contribs) 16:12, 1 June 2013 (UTC)‎

Looking into this further, I have to agree with the person who reverted you - the sentence you added is simply misplaced. The first and second paragraphs of the article lede give the historical context of Ayurveda, and adding a modern response in the middle makes no sense at all. Note also that the third paragraph of the lede already discusses safety concerns and similar issues. As to whether the article needs to discuss further the Lancet material, it is difficult for me to judge without access to the full article - from what I can see, this may well be an opinion piece, and as such should probably be attributed to the author, rather than cited as an assertion of fact - and I see that the Lancet indicates that this is a qoutation. Have you read the entire article, and if so, can you clarify who is being quoted? (P.S. please sign your posts thus ~~~~). AndyTheGrump (talk) 16:58, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

Courtesy note regarding removal of comments

I removed some comments of yours that degraded the climate of discussion at RSN. It can never be helpful or productive to make personal attacks, and the ensuing escalation was predictable. Regards, -- Ohc ^¡digame!_{¿que pasa?} 23:26, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, I know. Unfortunately, CamelBinky seems utterly convinced I'm leading some sort of 'anti-primary-source-cabal' on Wikipedia, and has been engaging telepathic powers to provide the evidence... AndyTheGrump (talk) 23:36, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

ANI

Thanks, I am not sure how I did that. I was leaving a one line comment on the page. Oh, wait, I followed a link in to the discussion from a talk page. I bet I followed a link to a old point in time in the discussion and not the most current discussion. Anyway sorry and thanks for the fix. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 14:25, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

Oops! Easily done - I've done similar things myself. Anyway, it was simple enough to fix, so no harm done. AndyTheGrump (talk) 14:28, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

Diagnosis in Ayurveda.

If a PubMed indexed Ayurvedic journal says that there is difference of opinions in ayurvedic doctors about diagnostic methods, why the sentence is being removed? It is a fact that many diseases needs to be reclassified! I really did not like that the sentences were removed under the section of diagnosis.--Abhijeet Safai (talk) 05:36, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

The correct place to discuss article content is on the relevant article talk page: I suggest you ask the question there, where others will also see it. AndyTheGrump (talk) 05:44, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

Ok thanks. --Abhijeet Safai (talk) 05:47, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

E-Cat

In answer to what I wrote, I think you advised me to read the piece on fringe science. I have. Would you be good enough to read what I wrote on the E-CAT topic talk page and tell me where it is not factual? (copied below) I tried editing the actual article but it was immediately deleted. Possibly go to Resolution?

This discussion page rambles to the point it is difficult to follow. There are two main points that are clearly wrong.

1, The statement that no independent test has been carried out. You can't prove a negative and so can't possibly know that. In fact an independent test has been carried out. The paper is available for viewing or downloading at arXiv:1305,3903 It was paid for and commented about by Elforsk on their official site. Elforsk is a large, well known R&D organization, equivalent to EPRI. It can't get much more official than that.

It doesn't matter that it has not been peer reviewed yet, or that some don't like the experimental procedure. An independent test HAS been run. There are various secondary sources of confirmation mentioned, such as Gibbs in Forbes magazine. I expect that several other tests have been run by large organizations doing their due diligence.

2. The comment on an independent test is followed by a very negative commentary taken from a blog site run by Ugo Bardi. The comments to his post were uniformly negative. Mine was censored. What is the justification for this? I can point to several other blogs run by scientists, including a Nobel Prize winner and a Chief Scientist at NASA, that come to the opposite conclusion.

One can only conclude that there are several editors on this topic that are so convinced that LENR is impossible that they favor anything negative about it. For example, the selective quote from Elforsk given. The full quote is shown below. (Google translation)

Swedish researchers have tested Rossi energy catalyst - E-cat

"Researchers from Uppsala University and KTH Stockholm has conducted measurements of the produced heat energy from a device called the E-cat. It is known as an energy catalyst invented by the Italian scientist Andrea Rossi.

The measurements show that the catalyst gives substantially more energy than can be explained by ordinary chemical reactions. The results are very remarkable. What lies behind the extraordinary heat production can not be explained today. There has been speculation over whether there can be any form of nuclear transformation. However, this is highly questionable. To learn more about what is going on you have to learn what is happening with the fuel and the waste it produces. The measurements have been funded by such Elforsk."

For those the prefer peer reviewed papers, there are several hundred listed that confirm LENR here. lenr-canr.org

Rossi forecast at the beginning that nothing would convince the skeptics until working E-CATs were out in the market and he was right. I wonder what you will say when Defkalion demonstrate their Hyperion at the National Instruments Week in August.

LENR has now been proven beyond all reasonable doubt. This negatively biased wiki entry on the E-CAT is doing a great disservice to thousands of viewers. Parallel (talk) 20:48, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

I'm not this slightest bit interested in debating this with you here, since you clearly don't have a clue what you are talking about. AndyTheGrump (talk) 20:54, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

I have opened a dispute notice and you are invited to respond. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard#Energy_Catalyzer Parallel (talk) 00:53, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

Reply to your comment

You write you are not interested in debating this, but as you believe LENR is fringe science and accuse me of being clueless, you might get a better understanding if you read this short post by Jed Rothwell.

…The author asked: "Jed, thanks for this. I see the experiment is clearly defined on pages 8 and 9. The paper was written in 1996. Do you know of any place the number of successful vs. unsuccessful times this specific experiment has been done?"

My response: Storms himself did this when he was writing the paper. He began with 98 cathodes. It took him about a year to test them following the methods in this paper. At the end of that time he found 4 that passed all tests. These 4 worked repeatedly at high s/n ratios. So, looking at those 4 the success rate was 100%. Looking at the entire batch of cathodes the rate was 4%.

Take your pick. It depends on how you look at it.

Miles tested 94 cathodes and found 28 worked. That’s a 29% success rate. However, when he used cathodes recommended by Fleischmann and Johnson Matthey, 4 out of 4 worked,producing about 10 times more heat than any other type. So that’s 100%. Again, take your pick. The McKubre figures in this report show a similar pattern:http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/McKubreMCHcoldfusionb.pdf

If you get a good source of material such as Johnson Matthey or the ENEA, and you are good at electrochemistry, and you test the cathodes beforehand by the methods recommended by Storms, Cravens, Fleischmann and others, and you measure control parameters so you can tell how close you are and what to do next, then it will work nearly 100% of the time. If you do not do these things it may work 30% of the time, or 3%, or never. There is no telling. It is like shooting in the dark. Or, as Storms puts it, it is like picking up pieces of gravel, testing them, and hoping to find a semiconductor.

Let me add that practically the only person who made a serious effort to replicate Flieschmann exactly, following all advice and protocols, was the late Georges Lonchampt. He was an engineer. He was the chief designer of the French fission power reactors and a commissioner on the French Atomic Energy commission. Such people are technically skilled and they are used to following instructions, unlike academic scientists. He reported that it worked every time, exactly as Fleischmann said it would. The head of BARC and later chairman of the Indian Atomic Energy commission also replicated successfully, again because he was the kind of person who is used to following instructions.

He and his colleagues also successfully replicated the U.S. thermonuclear bomb. That is an extremely hazardous undertaking, so he knew a thing or two about following instructions.

If you want something replicated properly you should turn to people like this. The last people on earth you should turn to are academic physicists, especially plasma fusion scientists. In 1989 and 1990 they found more ways to do this experiment wrong than you can imagine, including mixing up the anode and the cathode. - Jed Parallel (talk) 12:36, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

Hello! There is a DR/N request you may have interest in.

This message is being sent to let you know of a discussion at the Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard regarding a content dispute discussion you may have participated in. Content disputes can hold up article development and make editing difficult for editors. You are not required to participate, but you are both invited and encouraged to help find a resolution. Please join us to help form a consensus. Thank you!

Your work here

Hello Andy,

I no longer remember the context, but a couple of years ago, I disagreed with you about something, and commented that you should try to be less grumpy. Now, I believe that you should be a grumpy as you wish, and are able to be, within reasonable limits, and in opposition to the hoardes of POV pushers and cranks who swarm to Wikipedia. Something motivated me to take a look at your recent work on several controversial topics. Your firmness and insistence on high standards, especially on topics related to science, medicine and most especially BLPs, is really needed here. I do not have the personality traits to consistently do the type of work that you do. I work mostly on welcoming and mentoring new users, as well as non controversial content creation. But as I have learned more about the "dark underbelly" of this wonderful project, I have developed a deeper appreciation of the importance of your work. So, thank you. I hope that you contribute for many years to come. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 02:04, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

Well, I could probably achieve the same results with a little less grump, and the same amount of firmness - but that's the way I am. One of the nice things about working on Wikipedia is that it allows you to find your own niche, and I seem to have sort of gravitated into this one. Anyway, thanks for your comments, it is good to know that I'm seen as doing useful work. AndyTheGrump (talk) 12:40, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

Reply

Dear Andy, Thank you for your message on my Talk Page. I have responded in full there. Horatio Snickers (talk) 11:40, 5 June 2013 (UTC)

Wikilinking words in quotes

I didn't know that, thanks 74.101.128.155 (talk) 18:15, 5 June 2013 (UTC)

I'd take a look at WP:OVERLINK too - it is rarely necessary to link the same word more than once. AndyTheGrump (talk)

Talkback

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WhiteWriter^speaks 19:45, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

troll?

Is your spidey sense tingling too? — The Potato Hose 15:25, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

Indeed it is... AndyTheGrump (talk) 15:32, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

Excuse me? --Ivilbderoneday (talk) 15:34, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

IP blocks

I've blocked the IP you warned and their brother. If other siblings continue to edit war, I suppose there's nothing for it but semi the article. Bishonen | talk 15:45, 7 June 2013 (UTC).

ANI

Hello. There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. --Ivilbderoneday (talk) 15:51, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

Eugene Plotkin RfC

It has been over 30 days since the RfC on the Eugene Plotkin talk page was opened and I believe consensus regarding a page move was reached a good 10 days ago. However, I am concerned if I move the page, it will set off another edit war with user Smallbones. Can you please close the RfC and move the page as you see fit? Factchecker25 (talk) 00:23, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

I think it might be better to ask an uninvolved contributor to close it. You could ask for this at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Requests for closure. AndyTheGrump (talk) 00:34, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the suggestion. I added the request to the noticeboard. Factchecker25 (talk) 04:07, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

Now that the page has been moved to Reebok insider trading case and the SPI has been closed, meaning there is no question regarding my neutrality, I have tried to re-frame the article to focus on the crime and follow NPOV. If you could review, I would be grateful for the additional perspective. Factchecker25 (talk) 17:28, 13 July 2013 (UTC)

Islamophobia

I accidentially reverted you via edit conflict, but I would have done so anyway. Perhaps you would like to use the talkpage and explain how it is "a gross violation of WP:NPOV" to try and introduce neutral and unemotional wording to an article which has been tagged as broken for ages? I know that prejudice exists, but using an article titled about an inflammatory slur to discuss them is not a very clever idea. "Islamophobia" is like "pro life" and "pro choice", the term itself stifles all discussion because it is a wholesale attack on an opposing view. If you want to discuss Islam-related controversies or the like, please do it under a neutral title. I am sure we can agree that "abortion controversy" is a more wikilike title than "baby-killing", right? Then why make the same mistake here. --dab (𒁳) 15:46, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

See WP:BRD - I have reverted your edits again. As for your comments on the word 'Islamophobia', it is a term widely used in academia, and your attempts to suggest otherwise are frankly ridiculous. AndyTheGrump (talk) 15:59, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

You are right about BRD, I suppose, but since I already failed that, let me go out on a limb and ignore AGF as well: I can accept that you may have different tastes or opinions. But to suggest that "'Islamophobia', it is a term widely used in academia" is clearly a joke, unless your idea of "academia" is "politically correct propaganda", but I would let that pass as misguided good faith. To suggest that people who beg to differ are "ridiculous" for me does not register as within the reach of AGF. I do not have time for this though, so you are welcome to keep your broken article. --dab (𒁳) 05:36, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

It is a fact that the term 'Islamophobia' is widely used in academia: [6] AndyTheGrump (talk) 13:24, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

Question

Hi Andy. Was just wondering; in this edit you remove the statement about McEnroe doping from the lead and imply it is unsourced, but the paragraph in the body contains a reliable source. Did you realise this? Or am I missing something? Basalisk ^{inspect damage}⁄_berate 17:53, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

Scratch that, just seen the talk page. But in light of the fact that the statement in the body is sourced, what do you think of the doping category? Basalisk ^{inspect damage}⁄_berate 17:55, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, sorry about that. I thought I'd looked for a source before I edited, but must have missed it. Regarding the categories, I can't see how this is a 'doping case' - it only came to light after McEnroe's career ended, and I'm not even sure that the use of the steroids used was banned at the time. Describing it as a 'doping case' seems to imply more than the sources state. AndyTheGrump (talk) 18:08, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

"nutters" and the "utterly insane"

You chastised another contributor for using the term "nutters" to refer to those who fake cancer. Your justification for this admonishment is that the term seemed to show disrespect for those with mental health issues. But you referred to my contributions as "utterly insane".

That is inconsistent.

If you and I were friends I would offer you the heads-up that this kind of inconsistency is likely to erode your credibility. If you and I were friends I would warn you that using inflammatory language, like calling other contributor's work "utterly insane" is damaging to the project in general -- where we are all supposed to do our best to maintain an environment of civility and collegiality. Geo Swan (talk) 19:43, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

I'm not interested in debating this - including someone who had cancer in a 'list of cancer victim hoaxes' was a gross violation of WP:BLP policy. AndyTheGrump (talk) 19:47, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

There is an aphorism most of us learned in nursery school -- "two wrongs don't make a right". Could you please consider whether this lesson should apply to your comments in discussions here?

If you agreed the lesson did apply here, you would refrain from making inflammatory comments, without regard to how "gross" you think some other contributor's lapse was. I suggest you should be able to find a way to make your points -- without insulting other people.

Interestingly, I just revisited WP:Articles for deletion/List of bullycides -- another discussion where you used inflammatory language specifically "Are you out of your f*cking minds!". Again, if you and I were friends I would warn you that your use of inflammatory language was not only damaging to the project in general -- if we were friends, I'd be concerned for you that this kind of disregard of our standards could have negative consequences for you, personally. Geo Swan (talk) 21:15, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

We are not friends. Please do not post on my talk page again, unless necessary for notification purposes. AndyTheGrump (talk) 21:18, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

Notification of reply

This is to notify you that I have replied to your comment attempting to ban me. I gather there is an automated way of advising you but I don't know how to use it Parallel (talk) 20:47, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

There is no need to notify me - I am watching the discussion. AndyTheGrump (talk) 20:51, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

You really miss the point - again

You wrote: Harassing other editors and threatening to reveal their identities

This is your only warning for harassing other editors and threatening to reveal their personal information. Because of an editing dispute, you posted at Talk:Energy Catalyzer "How would yo like to be made out to be a criminal, by name, on WIkipedia?" This constitutes harassment, a violation of the policy WP:HARASSMENT and revealing the name of another editor who wishes to be anonymous would violate the policy WP:OUTING. Any repetition of such behavior will result in your being blocked from editing. Such comments are not a reasonable part of improving the article, which is the only purpose of the talk page. If you intended to complain that another editor had called you a criminal, there are other venues for that, such as first asking the editor on his talk page to remove the offending text or second, complaining at WP:ANI. In any event, it would be well to remove or strike through the text in question. Edison (talk) 14:35, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

Hard to believe that you are so biased you didn't recognize that was a rhetorical question to "unsigned" (how the hell would I identify him anyway) who accused Rossi of being a criminal. I therefore asked him how he would like it. Parallel (talk) 21:50, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

Thank you for demonstrating your incompetence - I didn't write that, User:Edison did. Please do not post on my talk page again except for the purposes of formal notification. AndyTheGrump (talk) 21:59, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

notification

I have posted a piece mentioning your name on MastCell's talk page Parallel (talk) 03:24, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

fyi

Your name came up. Geo Swan (talk) 09:36, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

I have posted an appeal here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard Parallel (talk) 19:45, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

I wonder

[7]+[8]+[9]=? — The Potato Hose 23:35, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

[10]. AndyTheGrump (talk) 23:43, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

Perhaps someone should put some stick about. (I actually just finished rererererewatching the original yesterday.) — The Potato Hose 23:51, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

Chef/gym teacher

I believe you are correct. Thanks! Capitalismojo (talk) 17:45, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

Ani heads-up

After initiating this thread both policy and common courtesy obliged me to leave you a timely heads-up. I got called away, and hadn't done that yet. I see you saw it. Nevertheless I apologize for not getting the heads-up to you prior to you seeing it on your own. Geo Swan (talk) 14:31, 16 June 2013 (UTC)

No problem. AndyTheGrump (talk) 14:32, 16 June 2013 (UTC)

" "Boing"? What the hell is that supposed to mean?" Short for Boing! said Zebedee, the user to which Geo Swan was responding.--SPhilbrick(Talk) 15:37, 16 June 2013 (UTC)

Doh! I'd missed that... AndyTheGrump (talk) 15:40, 16 June 2013 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Editor's Barnstar
	Thanks4Help! TY of Walk 16:51, 16 June 2013 (UTC)

Talkback

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RSN comment

Hi. I noticed your name at the noticeboard and was wondering if you could comment at this post. I've been getting feedback only from editors who've used the source in question in the articles they add to, so I don't think I'm getting a very impartial response. Dan56 (talk) 18:16, 16 June 2013 (UTC)

Talkback

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Talkback

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Talkback

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Talkback

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Gaijin42 (talk) 17:58, 20 June 2013 (UTC)

Cool it, please

Cool it, my friend Angry Thumped. Jimbo blocked me for saying that. Supposing he's on the prowl? Bishonen | talk 19:13, 20 June 2013 (UTC).

Careful - you'll be accused of being in my pay if you go around calling me your friend ;-) But yeah, I shouldn't let such things get under my skin... AndyTheGrump (talk) 19:16, 20 June 2013 (UTC)

I was actually about to say something vaguely similar (accusations of collusion be damned). No sense in getting worked up about it; just ignore it. Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 19:18, 20 June 2013 (UTC)

I could stand being in your pay, make me an offer. The wiki pension scheme is lousy. Bishonen | talk 05:41, 21 June 2013 (UTC).

Template

You were right. You gave your reasons, but I overlooked it so sorry for my angry comment (crossed it out). I gave my reasons on TP now. Gun Powder Ma (talk) 14:36, 22 June 2013 (UTC)

FYI

I've put a comment on "broadly construed" on Kumioko's page.[11] Bishonen | talk 18:04, 23 June 2013 (UTC).

re Michael Pliuskaitis

I see we're already three helpers working on Michael Pliuskaitis ;) I removed the tag form the article before I noticed your reply and I'll add proper citation templates or at least link the URLs to the titles as soon as edit conflicts can be avoided (if that hasn't already been taken care of by then). jonkerz ♠talk 18:04, 25 June 2013 (UTC)

Thanks - I've started a thread on WP:BLPN regarding this article, as it may raise concerns. AndyTheGrump (talk) 18:05, 25 June 2013 (UTC)

Post from United Arab Emirates

I think I know the answer, but I will ask anyway. You had an edit summary of: "rvv - nonsense in Arabic script)". Did you use that summary because you knew that the Arabic original was nonsense, or did you refer to the Arabic post as nonsense because Arabic is nonsense to most English-literate editors? (Having recently tested Unicode, it was a test of the ability of the Wikimedia servers to handle Unicode, but such a test should be done either in a sandbox or with the native Arabic names of persons and places.) Robert McClenon (talk) 23:56, 25 June 2013 (UTC)

It was simple enough to determine that it was nonsense, using Google translate: [12]

Even without Google translate, it seems self-evident that this is nonsense: no language will have so many repeating letters - and the word length is implausible too. AndyTheGrump (talk) 00:08, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

Then it was just random gibberish, in which case it was a disruptive edit. Robert McClenon (talk) 01:06, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

Newbie

Darling is (basically) a newbie with a low edit count. Please don't WP:BITE! I urge you to retract the comment about disruptiveness. – S. Rich (talk) 20:56, 26 June 2013 (UTC)20:58, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

I'd already made the same point, in more mild terms, in a previous post. It didn't seem to sink in. I see no reason to retract it, since the behaviour is clearly becoming disruptive - anyone coming to the discussion from outside is going to be confronted with a whole series of repeated posts, complete with broken links and assertions not borne out by the sources. This is no way to reach a consensus, and I think we'd do newbies a disservice if we were to give the impression that this was the expected standard of behaviour. AndyTheGrump (talk) 21:11, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

Well, as this is an editor behavior issue, I suggest moving the comment to his talkpage. From what I've seen, he's open to mentoring. (And doing so will de-clutter the BM talkpage a bit.) – S. Rich (talk) 21:39, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

Copyright Violations For Corina(Singer)

I am writing to inquire why you have tagged me for copyright violation. I am the Artist Corina and I have spent all day updating this page. I am new to Wikipedia, how can I edit my page without these isues? I have copyrights to every detail and image on the page as it is me who the page represents.

Corina — Preceding unsigned comment added by Yes Behind The No (talk • contribs) 00:56, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

AndyTheGrump,

Thank you for asking that the vandalism be erased from the warning. I am indeed the Artist for which this article exists. This is my first day on Wikipedia and I was entirely unaware that there might be a problem editing a page about me. I have had even the hardest time just finding out how to message you about this matter.

Is there a way for me to edit my page without someone calling it cpyright infringement? I have copyrights to my work.

Thank you Corina — Preceding unsigned comment added by Yes Behind The No (talk • contribs) 01:31, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

I think it would be best if you respond at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#User:Yes Behind The No, as others are now involved in this discussion. There are several matters of concern regarding the article, and it is best to keep discussions centralised. AndyTheGrump (talk) 01:38, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

Reply on Talk Page

Hello, AndyTheGrump. You have new messages at Amaury's talk page.
Message added 01:46, 27 June 2013 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

I've replied. I meant to only revert and then issue the appropriate warning with Twinkle. Apologies. Amaury (talk) 01:46, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

Aquatic ape hypothesis

Hey, Andy. Could use more eyes at Aquatic ape hypothesis. Check out the last two sections of the talk page. Thanks. Dominus Vobisdu (talk) 00:00, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

Yup - I have it watchlisted. AndyTheGrump (talk) 00:04, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

Your edit summary

Here, you seem to think the members of the EDL can spell? Darkness Shines (talk) 12:39, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

Good point: [13]. AndyTheGrump (talk) 12:55, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

I just sprayed coffee through my nose, that is so funny, I need to track down the photographer and buy whoever it was a pint. Darkness Shines (talk) 13:01, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

non, je ne regrette rien! Martinevans123 (talk) 13:11, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

There is also a photo of a poster saying "DOWN WITH ASLAN" about - but I'm not entirely convinced it is genuine. AndyTheGrump (talk) 13:14, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

Your answer at the help desk

Thank you for your help desk answer. --Khmer Prun Them (talk) 18:11, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

BoomPopMedia

Look dude, I won't add it to anymore articles because quite frankly I'm tired of fighting with everyone about it - but please read my user page before making blanket judgements. My goal on Wikipedia is to take news/opinion sources an integrate them into articles that are not up to par. If you look at the James Gandolfini article, it's embarrassing how little information it contains for a figure as important as he is. These were good faith additions. If you have better citations, feel free to add them in its place, but I would rather have good content with a questionable citation than no content at all. AtlasBurden (talk) 22:50, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

BoomPopMedia isn't a reliable source, according to Wikipedia definitions, and that is all that matters here - find somewhere else to promote it. AndyTheGrump (talk) 22:53, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

The edits on the James Gandolfini page quite clearly fall under this category: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:RS#Self-published_and_questionable_sources_as_sources_on_themselves AtlasBurden (talk) 22:59, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

Material from boompopmedia.com and listogames.com clearly falls under the category 'Wikipedia doesn't give a toss what your contributors think'. AndyTheGrump (talk) 23:03, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

I won't fight you on this case because quite frankly I don't care enough to do so. If you want to REMOVE content from an article that is already far too short, then I guess I can't stop you from doing so. I respect the fact that you are trying to help ensure high quality standards on Wikipedia, but you could be nicer about it. AtlasBurden (talk) 23:09, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

Khmer Prun Them

Hi, I see you have reverted several edits by Khmer Prun Them (talk · contribs), some of which pertain to a meetup in Horsham, UK. However, the edits made by this user at Meta are still up. Should they be reverted too? If not, there will be a discrepancy between the meetups described at Meta and those listed on en.wp --Redrose64 (talk) 08:13, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

Absolutely - Khmer Prun Them was sockpuppet/troll. AndyTheGrump (talk) 13:44, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

Vandalism at Bhaag Milkha Bhaag article?

User Wraithful is continuesly removing the material from the article even after requesting him to get conses before on the talk page. I have written 2 messages on his talk page. I dont know how to handle this kind of activity. Please guide and kindly give your opinion. Thanks. --Abhijeet Safai (talk) 16:57, 1 July 2013 (UTC)

I'm not sure why you are asking me about this - but I'd start by reading WP:VANDAL. This is a content dispute, and making accusations of vandalism is entirely inappropriate. Looking at the material removed, I'm inclined to agree with Wraithful that it is inappropriate trivia for an unreleased film, and I'm not even sure that an article on the film can be justified at all under Wikipedia:Notability (films) guidelines. I suggest that rather than arguing over minor details, you look for evidence from third-party reliable sources that the film is of any significance. AndyTheGrump (talk) 17:23, 1 July 2013 (UTC)

Ok thanks. I was asking you this question because I found you very sensible, helpful, balanced, friendly yet firm. There is a great learning by reading your edits. I got to know about you at Ayurveda article and I found you very logical there. Thanks. I shall follow as discussed. Thanks. --Abhijeet Safai (talk) 05:37, 2 July 2013 (UTC)

One more reason I posted on your talk page because I found you unbiased or very little biased. Your guidance was of great help to me in the past. It is my genuine feeling. Thanks. --Abhijeet Safai (talk) 11:16, 2 July 2013 (UTC)

Please comment on

Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Human Genetic History#Guidelines desperately needed. Thanks. Dougweller (talk) 13:24, 2 July 2013 (UTC)

Alger Hiss

You are involved in a recently filed request for arbitration. Please review the request at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests#Alger Hiss and, if you wish to do so, enter your statement and any other material you wish to submit to the Arbitration Committee. Additionally, the following resources may be of use—

• Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests#Requests for arbitration;
• Wikipedia:Arbitration guide.

Thanks,

CJK (talk) 13:31, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

Linkspam?

While you acted in good faith, describing the link I posted regarding the airliner involved in the SFO crash as "linkspam" was not. The link was germane to the article, and a non-commercial site. Not sure why you removed it, but I'm assuming good faith. Next time use only the language that is appropriate, especially when the editor who made the addition in the first place is well established and has a very low revert rate. And, frankly give a better reason for something of that nature. Thanks. Juneau Mike (talk) 23:14, 6 July 2013 (UTC)

Sorry if I was a bit abrupt, but it is difficult to keep up when multiple editors are trying to add 'fatalities' etc to an article based on poor sources. I should probably have cited WP:ELNO instead - I can't see that the site you linked really provided any relevant information that we didn't already have. AndyTheGrump (talk) 23:19, 6 July 2013 (UTC)

Gotcha, agf as I said. BTW, just heard in the press conference that roughly 60 are unaccounted for. There is going to be some minor to moderate edit warring over this. (I stay out of such things...) Juneau Mike (talk) 23:22, 6 July 2013 (UTC)

See also

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/QVD (software) Delicious carbuncle (talk) 01:35, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

Here's a suggestion

How about you no try to WikiHound me, and read the WP:Deletion policy? Inappropriate re-nominations or nominations that are frivolous are subject to a Speedy Close. Just because you may want the article kept, deleted, etc. does not mean you attack the closer. Further, I didn't close the previous discussion - I relisted. Two entirely different things. Your empty threat of an AN/I discussion mean nothing to me. Don't make threats that are meaningless, please. It further degrades my already ill view of you. Dusti^*poke* 01:37, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

And I do highly highly suggest that you learn the difference between a relisting and a closure before you try to respond here. Dusti^*poke* 01:39, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

Whatever: here's a suggestion. How about you stop making decisions regarding AfDs you aren't qualified to do? As Mark Austin wrote in the closure for the previous (no consensus) AfD "This close does not mean that the article has to remain, however, the community can begin a new discussion at any time about whether to merge and redirect this". You don't get to override an admin - and see WP:NACD. AndyTheGrump (talk) 01:46, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

LOL! I knew you wouldn't look! Look at the current discussion and the closers remark about how the current discussion is inappropriate. Again, stop making yourself look this way Andy. I personally have nothing against you - I just dislike your abrasiveness on small things - such as a relist. You come at me accusing me of another bad closure. Your bias here is that you threw a temper tantrum because you thought I did something to delay the deletion of your nomination, whereas (and it is now clear) I didn't. I was hoping you'd come to apologize, but alas you didn't. I get you - you don't like being wrong, and that's okay. Read the consensus on the discussion before you make any further moves. I'm now un-watching your talk page to stop this conversation before it goes somewhere we don't want it to go. Take care Andy. Dusti^*poke* 01:51, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

I'm not interested in arguing with you. I have made my position clear. Call it Wiki-hounding if you like - I'll call it ensuring that proper standards are applied. AndyTheGrump (talk) 01:55, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

Request for Arbitration case declined

This is a courtesy notice to inform you that a request for arbitration, which named you as a party, has been declined. Please see the Arbitrators' opinions for potential suggestions on moving forward.

For the Arbitration Committee, — ΛΧΣ²¹ 20:41, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

Smart

Hmmm. I have a problem. One the one hand, I understand and agree with your edit. On the other hand, that page actually includes some useful and accurate information that doesn't seem to be otherwise easily accessible. I guess I'm somewhat conflicted. Do you have an opinion on the topic? Cheers, Pdfpdf (talk) 16:36, 8 July 2013 (UTC)

P.S. I like your username - I wish I'd put more thought into my choice of username ... Pdfpdf (talk) 16:36, 8 July 2013 (UTC)

I've just deleted a whole lot of links to obitree.com, as obvious linkspam. The linked pages certainly seemed to contain 'useful information' - copy-pasted from Wikipedia, without attribution! Evidently the Smart page wasn't from us, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was coplied from somewhere else instead. I can see no reason to link to what is self-evidently a site using our articles as a means of promotion, anyway. AndyTheGrump (talk) 16:44, 8 July 2013 (UTC)

You silver-tongued-devil! (I'm convinced.) Pdfpdf (talk) 17:19, 8 July 2013 (UTC)

Meaningless?

I'd like to know why you think mourning by Chinese netizens is, as you put it, "meaningless"? This was reported by a reliable source and documents a widespread reaction to a major news event. Just because it didn't happen in the United States does not lessen the fact's importance. CaseyPenk (talk) 02:32, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

What the heck do you think a 'netizen' is? Just because CNN concoct stories by trawling the web and then plastering vacuous headlines over them, we don't have to follow suit. It is self-evident that people in China will be mourning victims - and they deserve better coverage than that which reduces them to cheap headlines. AndyTheGrump (talk) 02:36, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

I appreciate the explanation. I wish you would have explained it like this (and at this length) in your edit summary, as you just did. The mourning can be given serious attention with different articles. CaseyPenk (talk) 02:40, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

Yeah - you are right, I should have given a longer summary, apologies. AndyTheGrump (talk) 02:43, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

Thanks, Andy. CaseyPenk (talk) 02:57, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

777 Safety record

Andy,

I don't want to edit war over this edit. There's a discussion on the article's talk page. Please add your thoughts and lets get consensus. At least 3 editors (myself and the original editor, plus the one who tweaked the verbiage) think it is a proper addition to the article. As I said in my Edit Summary, don't forget the "D" in WP:BRD. Thanks and best regards, JoeSperrazza (talk) 18:27, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

List of teenage parents

Hey, Andy. Considering that you deal with WP:BLP violation issues a lot more than most of us at this site, perhaps you'd be willing to tackle the List of teenage parents article before it gets even further out of hand? I've commented on the matter already; see its talk page. Flyer22 (talk) 21:23, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

Yuk. A ridiculous article. Teenage pregnancy simply isn't notable - it was almost the norm in many societies until recently, and may still be so in parts of sub-Saharan Africa for instance. AndyTheGrump (talk) 21:36, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

I have add links for some usefulness, but I wholly agree. How did this get past speedy delete? Martinevans123 (talk) 21:40, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

I see Darkness Shines has blanked it - which given its lack of sources, is entirely according to policy. AndyTheGrump (talk) 21:43, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

(ec)Now at AFD, I also removed all the unsourced stuff, which left all of two lines. Darkness Shines (talk) 21:44, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

With regard to notability, the topic is notable for the reasons shown in the Teenage pregnancy article. But that list is... Well, I agree with all three of you about that list. Flyer22 (talk) 21:46, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

Just watch out for.. List of celebrities at least one of whose parents was a teenager, probably. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:48, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

...and now at AfD. As for the Teenage pregnancy article itself, that needs considerable work, I think. AndyTheGrump (talk) 21:50, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

There have also been BLP-violation issues, and other issues, with List of youngest birth mothers, and I took the matter of what to do with that list to WP:MED in March of this year. They didn't seem to believe that the list should be deleted. And the list is usually under control. But I'm not sure what I would rate it on the encyclopedic scale. Sure, the youngest cases are unusual. But the only person with a Wikipedia article on that list is Lina Medina, for obvious reasons (though being able to give birth at age 6 is just as rare).

At the opposite end, I now see (and I've probably seen it before), from looking at the See also section of the List of youngest birth mothers article, that there is a "List of oldest birth mothers" in the Pregnancy over age 50 article; someone, in 2012, tagged that section's factual accuracy as disputed. Flyer22 (talk) 05:28, 10 July 2013 (UTC)

IQ champ?

Hi Andy, if you happen to get a spare moment from your main quality control work would you perhaps care to take a look at this? Cheers, 86.161.251.139 (talk) 13:36, 10 July 2013 (UTC)

Given the contradictory sources, I've removed this from the article - see the talk page. AndyTheGrump (talk) 13:58, 10 July 2013 (UTC)

Thanks! I'm glad that's fixed. What seems to have happened is that she made the sort of PR mistake any youngster who doesn't happen to be media savvy is liable to make, by telling the story (or a cheeky take on it [14] ). The press obviously relish that... And then, when she's making big headlines again, Wikipedia perhaps plays a role in its media resuscitation, including further takes [15]. Oh well, better late than never, I suppose...86.161.251.139 (talk) 14:35, 10 July 2013 (UTC)

Traffic control

Yo, AtG, just FYI, I think your first comment in the Retrolord ANI thread got edit-conflicted out in the shuffle, which is presumably why Retrolord hasn't answered it. Frankly, I've given up trying to post in it. Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 15:09, 10 July 2013 (UTC)

You are probably right - I've restored it. I've also made a proposal... AndyTheGrump (talk) 15:18, 10 July 2013 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, AndyTheGrump. You have new messages at Kudpung's talk page.
Message added 02:31, 11 July 2013 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

I have slain the foul beast

[GOT HIM!]

You are most welcome, ★★RetroLord★★ 16:25, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

He blocked too. ★★RetroLord★★ 16:28, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

It's a (Spanish) miracle

May be of interest: [16] Note "Testimonial One". Regards. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:37, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

"The teaspoon I use to mix it with is rusted after 12 weeks"! Er yes. Bleach does that. Cleans drains, and rots brains, apparently. AndyTheGrump (talk) 20:57, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

Disruption on Talk:Edward Snowden

Hi Andy, regarding this discussion, I want to let you know that I support administrative action here. Although Bugs has occasionally contributed to the talk page (notice never the article, however), his legitimate contributions are far outnumbered by his WP:NOTFORUM violations. Even after your exchange there was this discussion in which he dug in and insisted on his right to soapbox, even when consensus was against him. And today he has liberally sprinkled his views once again. This is well past the point of being disruptive. --Dr. Fleischman (talk) 17:29, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

Rape in Norway

Hi,

just in support of your deleting stuff on "immigrant non-Western males" re rape in Norway. Your reading of the police report is entirely correct. Summing up all categories of rape, Norwegians themselves (or, ourselves) are the leaders in that particular rat race. Note also that the referenced numbers were from 2006 - 2008, iirc, while the report deals with 2010 (and there is now a 2011 report out).

Just a precaution: The NO Penal Code § 192 has three sections specifying aspects of this particular crime; the "five categories" are merely "typical scenarios" given by the analysts in the report; they match neither the sections in para 192 nor do they in any legal sense constitute specific crimes with specific sentencing. The categories would correspond to (US) - "date rape" ("party rape", festvoldtekt), - "spousal rape" (relationship rape, forholdsvoldtekt), - "inadvertent rape" (lack of consent, but no mens rea (?); prev. AKA sexual misdemeanor), - abuse of authority (/control/power: vulnerability rape), - assault rape, - and "other" covers all the non-typical, non-scenariofiable cases. Different traits of different scenarios (like degree of degradation, violence, STD etc.) are covered under the various provisions in the sections of para 192. The report itself has some intersting perspectives, a fair piece of analyst craft, besides being an authoritative source for numbers. Just so that one is careful how one uses it, is all.

MVH,

T 88.89.144.119 (talk) 05:13, 16 July 2013 (UTC)

Baseball Bugs

Hello. There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you.

Here's a direct link for your convenience. --Dr. Fleischman (talk) 07:43, 23 July 2013 (UTC)

Striked vote on AN

It appears you may have misread who wrote the support with this strike. It appears to be ToAT that wrote that support. Yobol (talk) 15:07, 23 July 2013 (UTC)

Ooops! Thanks - I've reverted AndyTheGrump (talk) 15:10, 23 July 2013 (UTC)

AN

I have made a post regarding this intended action for administrators to review. Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard#Conflict_around_Gun_controlGaijin42 (talk) 15:13, 23 July 2013 (UTC)

2 Oppose

Sorry about that! I'm new at this game and I think I am being hung out to dry by a lot of sock puppets. --Damorbel (talk) 15:51, 23 July 2013 (UTC)

I see no evidence whatsoever of sockpuppetry from those commenting in the thread, Instead, I see clear evidence of an emerging consensus that your current behaviour is unacceptable. AndyTheGrump (talk) 15:55, 23 July 2013 (UTC)

typo

You made a typo in your last comment. For the sake of clarity in the thread, Ill wait for you to fix it before replying. Gaijin42 (talk) 18:15, 23 July 2013 (UTC)

No typo - you are claiming that something is a subtopic of itself. AndyTheGrump (talk) 18:16, 23 July 2013 (UTC)

Clever

I just happened to notice this. Clever of you! Bishonen | talk 19:38, 23 July 2013 (UTC).

Thanks - though it was easy enough to find. [17]. AndyTheGrump (talk) 19:44, 23 July 2013 (UTC)

Confusion on Date of Birth

Great minds think alike i see. Have a nice day ツ Jenova20 ^(email) 14:36, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

Yeah :) You too. AndyTheGrump (talk)

"11 year old article"

Ive noticed yet another !vote has mentioned that "Andy wants to eliminate an 11 year old article" despite you having mentioned twice (or thrice?) already that this is not accurate representation. At this point I believe those saying "11 year old article" are doing so intentionally to mislead future !voters and sway the discussion. Is there a place, perhaps AN/I where it can be requested that such existing comments be refactored to state the situation accurately or striked through; and that future editors who !vote with that reason have their !votes labeled that "closing admin not take it into consideration due to" (spamming... intentional misinformation, intentional dumbassery, whatever) with potential warnings and blocks if necessary if they are by editors with a history of being in this dispute and have caused disruption or misinformation in the past.Camelbinky (talk) 15:48, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

I doubt that you'd get agreement to strike it out. The best thing to do is simply post a comment after, pointing out that, as the article history shows, [18] the article hasn't been in existence for 11 continuous years. It was created in 2002, deleted as a POV fork (with some edit warring) in 2008, and then recreated in 2011. The 'recreation' was initially based on existing content, minus material evidently removed as 'anti-gun-ownership'. [19]. It got worse from there - not even a pretence at neutrality: [20] AndyTheGrump (talk) 16:32, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

Blocked

The edit war in which you have been engaged disrupts the reasonable operation of Wikipedia's reference desk, and you've chosen to engage in pointless and disruptive edit warring rather than worthwhile and moderate discussion. It's really difficult to understand why you felt the trivial matter in question was so important that you felt warring over it was more urgent that discussing it. Consequently I have blocked the accounts of both parties to this pointless dispute.-- Finlay McWalterჷTalk 23:25, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

A "reasonable operation of Wikipedia's reference desk" clearly does not include contributors posting off-topic and offensive suggestions that sufferers of Alzheimer's disease should be euthanased. There is far too much soapboxing and general crap posted on the reference desks as it is, and when this is done in a way that is clearly hurtful to another contributor (Medeis, who had just stated that his grandfather died of Alzheimer's), common sense and common decency suggests that such material should be hatted, or deleted. Still, if you are more concerned with slapping blocks on people for offending petty rules (only visible in the background) than for maintaining standards of civil behaviour on one of the most visible pages of the encyclopaedia, I suppose you can see the block as justified. I don't, but then maybe I'm in the minority in actually caring about the public face of the encyclopaedia than in the facile backroom bickering and point-scoring that goes on here. AndyTheGrump (talk) 23:40, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

You make a pertinent and well-thought out point about the dispute in hand. Had you made this point rather than edit-warring, or even during the course of it, it's unlikely that I would have elected to block your account. I'm not blind to the fact, much as it may seem, that both parties were acting in what they felt was good faith. But both of you chosen, rather than to discuss the matter, to revert one another over and over. You're not blocked because I think you're wrong, but because you chose war-war over jaw-jaw. We all have disagreements over what should be in Wikipedia, but if we can't talk about them, we're screwed. It saddened be to block you, and I did worry that doing so would discourange you from the great preponderance of good things that you do. That you both do. But we have to be good to one another, or at least not to be bad to one another, and that's what you were both doing. I'm going to leave the rest of this to an admin who reviews unblock requests - I really don't want you to be blocked. But I really do want you to talk about problems first, second, and third. -- Finlay McWalterჷTalk 23:53, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

Am I supposed to take your comments seriously when you post exactly the same thing in two different places? [21] AndyTheGrump (talk) 00:04, 29 July 2013 (UTC)

You're supposed to understand that I hold you both in high regard, equally so. That I'm not picking sides. That I don't actually care about the dispute. This isn't a battle anyone can win. Andy, you've been here a while. I've been here a looong time. I've seen so many great Wikipedians like you get burned up in disputes, so often disputes like this over trivia. It pains me, really it does. I could fill this page with the great people who've built Wikipedia but burned out on conflict and nonsense and personal disputes. We only have WP:3RR because of user:Wik and user:lir, titans of intellect and productivity who built the bedrock we all work on - but who came to burn with hatred with one another, over crap like diacritical marks and long hyphens and who'd said what to whom. Not over real content, real disputes like abortion or Palestine or politics, just rubbish. I couldn't stop them, I'm a fool to think I can stop you, but Wikipedia dies a little when those who care the most about it fight over it. -- Finlay McWalterჷTalk 00:13, 29 July 2013 (UTC)

Wikipedia dies a little every time good constructive editors are blocked. Do you really not see that your blocks are "fighting" actions too, which raise the temperature, not lower it? Per my argument on your page, Finlay, I'm going to unblock Andy now. If you're serious about not picking sides, I suppose the logic is you'll have to unblock Count Iblis. Bishonen | talk 00:22, 29 July 2013 (UTC).

Would you please unblock both editors now? The war is over. --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 00:15, 29 July 2013 (UTC)

3RR is a brightline and the result is a block, with you so far. However, 10 days is overkill. 12-48 hours is enough to remove someone from a situation so that discussion can take place amongst other editors and a consensus reached. Granted, there are some cases where a longer block is necessary, but I'm sure this matter will be resolved by tomorrow if not already. Thus, I recommend shortening to 12 hours if not time served. N^oformation ^Talk 00:18, 29 July 2013 (UTC)

Actually, the blocks were unnecessary. A quiet word from Finlay would have stopped it. You admins need to learn to talk before you shoot. Just ban them both from the page for a day or so. These absurd cowboy 3rr/ew blocks cause far too much disruption. You guys are meant to be better than this. --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 00:31, 29 July 2013 (UTC)

• Andy has been unblocked. Bishonen | talk 00:26, 29 July 2013 (UTC).

P.S. Feel free to execrate me in any forum up to and including RFAR, but I really have to go to bed now. It's way past my bedtime. It's not from nonchalance that I won't respond until tomorrow. Bishonen | talk 00:29, 29 July 2013 (UTC)

Execrate. Cool. --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 00:35, 29 July 2013 (UTC)

Please see my comment on User talk:Finlay McWalter. Newyorkbrad (talk) 00:33, 29 July 2013 (UTC)

I've clarified there that it wasn't me that initially hatted the material. AndyTheGrump (talk) 00:41, 29 July 2013 (UTC)

Your comments are requested at the talk page of article of Ayurveda

Dear Andy, I would request your comments here. Thanks in advance. --Abhijeet Safai (talk) 06:15, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

gun control DR

As the AN has closed, this has been reopened. Gaijin42 (talk) 15:33, 1 August 2013 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#User:Arctic_Kangaroo_.28yet_again.29

I doubt you didn't understand the matter of discussion properly, on Jimbo's page. It is only about his early contributions in Commons; nothing about his current or future ones. JKadavoor Jee 19:22, 1 August 2013 (UTC)

I understood it perfectly well. We have a young contributor who uploaded material, then later regretted doing so, and who has wasted a great deal of a large number of people's time asking them to do something which cannot be done, and accusing them of being 'immoral' for not doing so. He has been told time and time again that the CC license is irrevocable, but it simply doesn't sink in. If he can't understand the CC license, he shouldn't be permitted to contribute material that requires acceptance of the license. AndyTheGrump (talk) 20:54, 1 August 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for your reply. But I assume his recent comments are only a quick reaction triggered from his disappointment; which can be neglected. JKadavoor Jee 03:03, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

On what grounds do you base your assumption? Why do you assume that after all this time anything will change? AndyTheGrump (talk) 03:10, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

Some "quick reaction", Jkadavoor. Arctic Kangaroo has gone on and on and on about this for several days, never showing the slightest sign that he understands and accepts free licensing in any way. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 03:25, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

Please believe me. I was the person who nominated his file at COM:FPC. So I know and involved in all discussions happened there and later here related to his pictures (not related to any text contributions here). He probably thought his media contributions are just like in Flickr; he has full control over his files. Now he seems to understand the truth; but desperately asking to forgive his past mistakes. I can’t see anything wrong in his desperate wish; considering the quality of that work. So if I ware; I will leave him with his files. There is no meaning in asking too much questions to him now and catch him on his own words. Personally I don’t like it. Leave him, wait and see whether he is doing same mistakes. I agree with you on banning him from any further media uploads; here and in Commons. JKadavoor Jee 05:42, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

The problem isn't with what AK 'probably thought' when he uploaded material to Commons. The problem is that he shows every sign of still thinking the same thing. This isn't about 'mistakes' - it is about his demonstrable lack of understanding of what a CC license entails. AndyTheGrump (talk) 13:13, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

His files have deleted as Túrelio stated below. Hope it makes him feel comfortable. Let us see what he tell now, and do later here; in Wikipedia. I don’t think it is good to close our doors and ears against him. JKadavoor Jee 14:18, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

Just FYI: the "disputed" image and AK's other uploads have been deleted from Commons. His earlier indef block has been left in place, though he may come back after providing evidence to WMF-legal or OTRS of his legal competence. --Túrelio (talk) 13:25, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Reference desk/Humanities

Best to leave it to someone else now, having hit three reversions in quick succession. Just for you own good. No comment at all about the edits. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:16, 1 August 2013 (UTC)

ANI

Please don't get this worked up. It's counterproductive, and I'm sure you know what it could lead to. Bishonen | talk 16:45, 2 August 2013 (UTC).

Yeah, I know. AndyTheGrump (talk) 17:03, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

For what it's worth, I found Andy's comment funny.Camelbinky (talk) 02:03, 3 August 2013 (UTC)

The comment is funny? Insulam Simia (talk) 18:41, 4 August 2013 (UTC)

Acupuncture

Could use some eyes on Acupuncture. Some editors are trying to elevate some unsupported or poorly supported explanations to the level of "theories". A lot of the material in the section on "Proposed mechanisms of action" is not supported by sources complying with WP:MEDRS, and the most widespread explanation, the placebo effect, is played down, probably violating WP:NPOV.Dominus Vobisdu (talk) 18:56, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

Peter Capaldi

I added a comment that it was ironic that Peter Capaldi, having played a WHO Doctor in World War Z, is cast in the role of Doctor Who. You revert that - why? It is quite ironic and interesting. Why revert it?

Nextraterly (talk) 19:11, 4 August 2013 (UTC) nextraterly

Because Wikipedia articles are based on published sources, not on the personal opinions of contributors regarding whether something is 'ironic'. Not that there was any irony anyway. AndyTheGrump (talk) 19:14, 4 August 2013 (UTC)

Fame!

Greetings! I've been working on a little project and noticed that you have previously criticized the Daily Mail. So I'm guessing you won't be interested in this?? -- Hillbillyholiday ^talk 03:19, 5 August 2013 (UTC)

MMM-2011

Hi, why are you deleting my changing in MMM-2011 article? It's empty now and redirecting to another article, I'm trying to fill it with text — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alagherii (talk • contribs) 13:54, 5 August 2013 (UTC)

I am deleting your text because Wikipedia isn't a platform for the promotion of Ponzi schemes. The article on MMM-2011 was deleted after discussion, and nothing has occurred since which suggests that an article should be restored. If an article were ever to be restored, it would have to be properly sourced, and accurately reflect the fact that the promoter of this scheme is a convicted fraudster. AndyTheGrump (talk) 14:02, 5 August 2013 (UTC)

why are you thinking that it is Ponzi scheme? Can you prove it with references? It seems to me that you are not neutral to the MMM members — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alagherii (talk • contribs) 14:04, 5 August 2013 (UTC)

I have replied on your talk page, and I'm not going to debate this any more. Wikipedia doesn't hand out free webhosting services to convicted fraudsters. AndyTheGrump (talk) 14:11, 5 August 2013 (UTC)

SandraJacoby15 and copyright violations

Thanks for your help with reverting the copyright violations of this editor. Just thought I'd mention that there were more that I reverted: [22]. I suspect the editor is an operative who is out to insert favorable material in articles of politicians approved by the Ripon Society. Notice that the editor alternates adding press releases to American politician articles with minor edits to Russian billionaire articles. It makes one suspect that the editor is trying to disguise their modus operandi. 71.139.152.154 (talk) 16:26, 5 August 2013 (UTC)

Possibly, though I'd have thought that anyone smart enough to want to hide partisan editing would be a little more aware of copyright issues etc. I can't really see any reason not AGF here, at least for now. AndyTheGrump (talk) 17:09, 5 August 2013 (UTC)

You're next

I mentioned you on AN.[23] And yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if you're next. :-( What a place. Bishonen | talk 12:35, 6 August 2013 (UTC).

ANI

Hello. There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. Horatio Snickers (talk) 16:42, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

Incident discussion

Hello. There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. 46.71.203.2 (talk) 22:59, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

Reverting of primary source material

I guess you did not watched the video. http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Essiac&diff=568103780&oldid=568103720 Prokaryotes (talk) 18:34, 11 August 2013 (UTC)

The video is not 'primary source' for anything except bullshit. It is however a violation of Wikipedia:Video links, and Wikipedia policy on copyright, in that it appears not to have been uploaded by the creator (see the 'fair use' disclaimer made by the uploader), and on that basis, it cannot be linked. AndyTheGrump (talk) 18:41, 11 August 2013 (UTC)

The video is an hour and a half long. Who would watch it? A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 19:15, 11 August 2013 (UTC)

August 2013

Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. You appear to be engaged in an edit war with one or more editors according to your reverts at Workers' Youth League (Norway). Although repeatedly reverting or undoing another editor's contributions may seem necessary to protect your preferred version of a page, on Wikipedia this is usually seen as obstructing the normal editing process, and often creates animosity between editors. Instead of edit warring, please try to reach a consensus on the talk page.

If editors continue to revert to their preferred version they are likely to be blocked from editing. This isn't done to punish an editor, but to prevent the disruption caused by edit warring. In particular, editors should be aware of the three-revert rule, which says that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. While edit warring on Wikipedia is not acceptable in any amount, breaking the three-revert rule is very likely to lead to a block. Thank you. Mentoz86 (talk) 15:11, 14 August 2013 (UTC)

[24] I have opened a thread concerning you. Miacek and his crime-fighting dog (woof!) 16:47, 17 August 2013 (UTC)

Are you really?

A grump? LudicrousTripe (talk) 07:32, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

‎Chemophobia dispute

I think it would be best to refactor your characterization of the other editor that you made here, don't you? --Ronz (talk) 21:30, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

Nope. The 'editor' blew in from nowhere, accusing all and sundry of being chemical industry shills, on no grounds whatsoever. I hadn't even edited the article prior to this incident. I see no reason to retract what is self-evident. As it happens, I think the article in question has POV problems, and probably overdoes the 'this is all irrational' line - but spouting tinfoil-hattery at all and sundry isn't the way to deal with it, and I called it the way it is. AndyTheGrump (talk) 21:40, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

Dear Andrew,

Please reconsider your disgracefully uncivil tone, since you only sound grumpy. Engaging in a civil fashion with those with whom you disagree costs nothing, and is the sign of a lack of grumpiness. Please pause before replying to people who are lacking in sanity in future.

Best wishes, LudicrousTripe (talk) 17:12, 21 August 2013 (UTC)

Thank you

Thank you for your swift revert on the Chelsea Manning talk page. I personally appreciate that. Sumana Harihareswara 17:25, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

Thanks - though I'm sure it would have been rapidly reverted by someone else if I'd not seen it first. AndyTheGrump (talk) 17:34, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

Notice of Edit warring noticeboard discussion

Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion involving you at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring regarding a possible violation of Wikipedia's policy on edit warring. The thread is Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring#User:AndyTheGrump reported by User:Me and (Result: ). Thank you. —me_and 18:02, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

knightmare on wall street (deletion)

Hi Andy, Thanks for your help. I've been improving the page, it's ok now or still considered for deletion? Kind regards Martin Campos Martin raul campos (talk) 19:08, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

Thank you, and seeking to bury the hatchet

Despite you opposing the topic ban, I'd like to actually thank you for correcting your mistakes in gendering me; I do hope that the actual disclosure of my own trans status (which I had not disclosed on Wikipedia at the time) makes my actions more understandable; indeed, reading the talk page at the moment it does get hard not to take all the blatant transphobia (from admins, even) personally.

As I said, I don't particularly want to bring up the argument again, but I feel like I must correct the misconceptions there. I still firmly believe that I made my edits with regard to BLP, RS/V, and the understanding of the issue as a trans person myself, and, really, as one of the few openly trans editors on the project, I desperately want to help with trans issues on Wikipedia (especially the abuse of COMMONNAME that comes up every time someone comes out), that I fear my topic ban would prevent me from doing. Sceptre ^(talk) 01:39, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

There was no misconception. You violated Manning's right to decide for him/herself, and were topic banned accordingly. AndyTheGrump (talk) 02:07, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

knightmare on wall street (deletion)/help

Hi, I'm trying to improve this article and save it from deletion. What do I need to do? I think I already fix the problems that you mentioned. Thanks in advance. Martin Campos Martin raul campos (talk) 17:51, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

As I've already told you, the discussion is going on at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/"Knightmare On Wall Street" (book). You'll need to comment there. AndyTheGrump (talk) 17:54, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

Tornado pilots

Re your userpage — what does the story about the Tornado pilot have to do with reliable sources? I get your point about the quality control place whose authors have writing skils. Nyttend (talk) 23:59, 25 August 2013 (UTC)

Um, simple physics. The Tornado was supposedly flying at 500mph, 250ft above the ground. No aircraft is capable of the manoeuvre illustrated - an outside half loop in that space, at that speed. If you do the maths, it would need at minimum a -134 G turn, which would kill the pilot in the unlikely circumstances that the jet held together. Not that the jet could generate that much negative lift anyway. What the pilot actually did was to push forward on his stick, and fly under the glider. AndyTheGrump (talk) 00:23, 26 August 2013 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for August 26

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link/conflict of interest

Hi Andy, thanks for your help and explanation. I'm not gonna put the youtube links anymore. Regarding the conflict of interest, I'm going to read everything and I'll let you know my opinion. Thanks Martin CamposMartin raul campos (talk) 19:21, 26 August 2013 (UTC)

Islamophobia racism talk

I used to believe that Islamophobia wasn't racism at all but then I reached out on the talk page because I thought I could be wrong. It turns out I was. Islamophobia can be racism because it can target ethnic groups people think are Muslim. I also believe that is an instant where ALL people would agree that Islamophobia is racism. I was trying to reconcile the two sides and used the sources to do so.-Rainbowofpeace (talk) 20:19, 26 August 2013 (UTC)

The correct place for this discussion is the article talk page. AndyTheGrump (talk) 20:21, 26 August 2013 (UTC)

bloomex

Hi there Andy, What was the problem with the addition I made to the Bloomex page? Asking in good faith as I don't understand the issue. The Ottawa Business Journal is a reputable, fact-checked publication. Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by JSWS2013 (talk • contribs) 18:14, 30 August 2013 (UTC)

The reliability or otherwise of the Ottawa Business Journal isn't really relevant - it states that "The company receives about 20 online complaints out of the 200,000 sales it does every year, he [Bloomex owner Dimitri Lokhonia] said". It is reporting what was said by Lokhonia. It is not asserting that it is correct. If the article is to state that Bloomex does 200,000 sales a year, it will need to come from a third-party source that asserts it as a fact. AndyTheGrump (talk) 18:21, 30 August 2013 (UTC)

The article asserts it as a fact. The "he said" is referring to the number of online complaints that Lokhonia states the company receives. As it is a BUSINESS JOURNAL, it's a reasonable assumption that they would not print the number of sales without fact-checking first, no? Honestly trying to understand your reasoning. What would suffice for this tiny piece of data's inclusion on the page? Scanned sales reports? An audit from an outside company? Another article from a different publication saying that the number quoted in this story is correct? Seriously trying to comprehend. Thank you. JSWS2013 (talk) 18:56, 30 August 2013 (UTC)

The article asserts that Lokhonia said it. That is all it asserts. So it isn't 'data' as far as Wikipedia is concerned. If Bloomex want to make claims regarding sales, fine, we can't stop them - but we are under no obligation to report such claims. AndyTheGrump (talk) 19:01, 30 August 2013 (UTC)

First, I believe your interpretation of the sentence in question is incorrect. The "he said" in the sentence refers to the amount of online complaints that Lokhonia claims. Second, I would say that as an encyclopedic entry on the company, there IS an obligation to report such figures under the heading of "business model," particularly when such irrelevant information like the fact that the company uses VoIP is allowed to stay. And since it is a privately held company with no obligation to publicly report financial numbers, I would think that having a reputable business publication report on sales would qualify as data. Third, you didn't answer my question, Andy. As an admitted newbie to the Wikipedia underworld, I'm asking what would qualify as "proof" of the sales figures. As you are clearly very deep into this world, please provide some guidance in the spirit of collaboration. JSWS2013 (talk) 19:32, 30 August 2013 (UTC)

I'm not interested in 'collaborating' with yet another Bloomex shill trying to spin the article. AndyTheGrump (talk) 19:35, 30 August 2013 (UTC)

Cool, man. Thanks for your help. Awesome accountability and response to my valid questions. — Preceding unsigned comment added by JSWS2013 (talk • contribs) 19:38, 30 August 2013 (UTC)

Check article

Can you check my article? Article's name is Veron (Software). Is this article satisfy Wikipedia's notability guidelines ? Faisal6545 (talk) 22:58, 30 August 2013 (UTC)

Why are you asking me this? AndyTheGrump (talk) 23:09, 30 August 2013 (UTC)

Regarding removal of study

Your feedback is required to improve the content you called, quote =" badly-written, and an entirely undue generalisation of the source" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Vaccine_controversies#Removal_of_legitimate_study Prokaryotes (talk) 20:24, 31 August 2013 (UTC)

I have responded on the talk page. AndyTheGrump (talk) 20:34, 31 August 2013 (UTC)

Regarding your recent edits

Hello. There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. User AndyTheGrump notoriously makes false accusations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents#A_group_of_users_framing_me_as_a_potential_fringe_and_making_allegations Prokaryotes (talk) 01:03, 1 September 2013 (UTC)

This should be fun... AndyTheGrump (talk) 01:05, 1 September 2013 (UTC)

David Frost

I see you have reverted an admittedly unexplained (no edit summary) change to this article, referring to Frost's death. I was going to make the same change away from "he died during the speech" earlier in the day. I intended to do this as although my reading of the source told me he was on the ship to make a speech, at no point does it definitely say that he was delivering the speech when he died. Read the source and see whether you think my reading of it is right. Britmax (talk)

I assume you mean this revert [25]? I reverted because the edit removed the date of Frost's death, and because it was repetitive: "...on board... on board...". You may be right about the source though - I'll look at it again, and edit the article if necessary. AndyTheGrump (talk) 22:27, 1 September 2013 (UTC)

Jimmy Savile

Andy - I added in the Newsnight stuff because the whole scandal doesn't make sense without it. It is where the revelations about his abuse originated. I also think that the HMIC report is in a sense the nearest we have to a final report on casualties although I can see a point in removing some of the earlier provisional reports instead. Dan904 (talk) 06:14, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

Legal Case

Hello, someone made a Wikipedia edit for Juvederm on September 26th 2012 with a deliberately erroneous statement to support a legal case which they have filed against a practitioner. Is there any way that the lawyers of the practitioner can request the IP address for the edit to help prove that the entry was malicious and deliberate? Thank you.Cosmeticspecialist (talk) 00:29, 7 September 2013 (UTC)cosmeticspecialist

Posted and answered elsewhere. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 00:35, 7 September 2013 (UTC)

Edit????

You changed my edit to something incorrect! Why? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Benobikenobi (talk • contribs) 17:31, 10 September 2013 (UTC)

This has been explained on your talk page. I am not interested in a debate. AndyTheGrump (talk) 18:19, 10 September 2013 (UTC)

Your opinion on this

I was wondering if you were interested in looking into this, given your stance on the topic of the rampage killers list. Ed Gein is listed on the article-list of List of American serial killers, however given the opening sentence definition in Serial killers he wouldn't meet the criteria. He was only convicted of one murder, admitted to only one more (I believe, I could be wrong) and they never bothered trying him on it after the other conviction, and the rest of the bodies couldn't be tied to him as far as a murder was concerned, he admitted, and it was to the best of the medical examiner's inquiry confirmed that the other bodies were dug up from the local cemetery after they had been buried. If we go based on convictions only, a person convicted of only one murder couldn't be a serial killer. I was wondering your opinion and if it was worth a discussion to remove him. It could get controversial given how infamous he is as the "protype" inspiration of Psycho, Texas Chainsaw Massacre, and Silence of the Lambs (Buffalo Bill).Camelbinky (talk) 18:26, 10 September 2013 (UTC)

My main objections to the 'rampage killers' lists have been BLP related, and that clearly isn't an issue here. As to whether Gein should be included on the 'serial killer' list, I'd have to suggests that there don't actually seem to be clear inclusion criteria, if inclusion is based on meeting the definition in the 'serial killer' article. Firstly, the lede points out that there are varying definitions ("three or more..." vs the FBI's two), and secondly, there are subjective provisos, e.g. "usually based on psychological gratification". This, combined with doubts where there has never been a conviction make any attempt to compile a definitive list questionable. The real problem is that we are trying to 'classify' abnormal human behaviour, and it rarely fits into neat little labelled categories even if one has all the facts to hand - which is often not the case anyway. I think the best we can do, if we are to have such lists at all, is to make clear to our readers that criteria for inclusion are to some extent subjective, and that inclusion on the list does not necessarily indicate that all criteria are met. AndyTheGrump (talk) 21:29, 10 September 2013 (UTC)

Gein confessed to killing two women, as the lead of his Wikipedia article states, and as the Reavill 2007 source (page 228) currently used in the lead of the Serial killer article states: "With only two confirmed kills, Ed Gein did not technically qualify as a serial killer (the traditional minimum requirement was three), but that did not deny him immediate entry into the pantheon of folk." Flyer22 (talk) 21:53, 10 September 2013 (UTC)

Anyway, my point is...given that two murders, with certain psychological components, now qualify as labeling someone a serial killer, it's not necessarily inaccurate to call Gein a serial killer. There's also no telling if he killed more people. Flyer22 (talk) 21:58, 10 September 2013 (UTC)

Comment?

You may want to comment here. You might not have felt a complaint was necessary but still smarting from a topic ban as I am I'm not going to let a blatant edit war like this go ahead. Another compliant will follow shortly and you can guess whose name will be on it. SonofSetanta (talk) 16:36, 11 September 2013 (UTC)

Unless I'm missing something, you are currently topic-banned from the subject. Do you really think it is wise to get involved? AndyTheGrump (talk) 16:51, 11 September 2013 (UTC)

Being topic banned from the subject doesn't affect my ability to report on edit warring or vandalism. SonofSetanta (talk) 17:15, 11 September 2013 (UTC)

Possibly, though I'd not count on it, if it was me. Anyway, I'm not sure why you are expecting me to get involved. All I've done is revert Benobikenobi once in each article, and then reported the issue at WP:ANI. AndyTheGrump (talk) 17:26, 11 September 2013 (UTC)

You were involved and you may wish to comment. Protocol demands you be informed. I need to remind you too that every editor, topic banned or not, has a duty to report or revert vandalism and/or edit warring. SonofSetanta (talk) 11:42, 12 September 2013 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) You're mistaken about that, SoS, see warning on your page. Please don't make up policy out of whole cloth. Bishonen | talk 12:10, 12 September 2013 (UTC).

SonofSetanta, my only comment on this issue has already been made. I'm not interested in getting involved further. AndyTheGrump (talk) 14:20, 12 September 2013 (UTC)

It appears you don't need to old chap. It also appears you were right in your contention that I should have stayed out of it. Lesson learned. SonofSetanta (talk) 14:40, 12 September 2013 (UTC)

Scope of article British Jews.

I'm curious as to which recognized authorities you would argue define a British Jew as being necessarily someone who participates in organized Jewish community life.

As you know, adherents of Halachic law do not impose any such requirement, even recognizing converts to other faith as Jews. The Board of Deputies does not envisage any narrow definition either. Their 2010 report on Jewish community statistics pointed out that their figures, although ' indicative of actual demographic trends, only represent those Jews who have chosen, or whose families have chosen, to associate themselves with the Jewish community through a formal Jewish act, ie circumcision, marriage in a synagogue, dissolution of marriage by a beth din, or Jewish burial or cremation. Consequently, Jews who have not chosen to identify in these ways do not appear in this report.' The import is that there are no specific narrow criteria of community involvement for those who would self-identify as Jews.

Your own opinion is one thing, but if you're going to narrow the scope of a Wikipedia article on an historically enduring community, I feel you ought to cite relevant authorities representative of the views of the community in question. VEBott (talk) 23:03, 15 September 2013 (UTC)