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See also: Logged AE sanctions

Important information

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Please use this page only to:

request administrative action against editors violating a remedy (not merely a principle) or an injunction in an Arbitration Committee decision, or a contentious topic restriction imposed by an administrator,
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Only autoconfirmed users may file enforcement requests here; requests filed by IPs or accounts less than four days old or with less than 10 edits will be removed. All users are welcome to comment on requests except where doing so would violate an active restriction (such as an extended-confirmed restriction). If you make an enforcement request or comment on a request, your own conduct may be examined as well, and you may be sanctioned for it. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. (Word Count Tool) Statements must be made in separate sections. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as personal attacks, or groundless or vexatious complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions.

To make an enforcement request, click on the link above this box and supply all required information. Incomplete requests may be ignored. Requests reporting diffs older than one week may be declined as stale. To appeal a contentious topic restriction or other enforcement decision, please create a new section and use the template {{Arbitration enforcement appeal}}.

Appeals and administrator modifications of contentious topics restrictions

The Arbitration Committee procedures relating to modifications of contentious topic restrictions state the following:

All contentious topic restrictions (and logged warnings) may be appealed. Only the restricted editor may appeal an editor restriction. Any editor may appeal a page restriction.

The appeal process has three possible stages. An editor appealing a restriction may:

ask the administrator who first made the contentious topic restrictions (the "enforcing administrator") to reconsider their original decision;
request review at the arbitration enforcement noticeboard ("AE") or at the administrators' noticeboard ("AN"); and
submit a request for amendment ("ARCA"). If the editor is blocked, the appeal may be made by email.

Appeals submitted at AE or AN must be submitted using the applicable template.

A rough consensus of administrators at AE or editors at AN may specify a period of up to one year during which no appeals (other than an appeal to ARCA) may be submitted.

Changing or revoking a contentious topic restriction

An administrator may only modify or revoke a contentious topic restriction if a formal appeal is successful or if one of the following exceptions applies:

The administrator who originally imposed the contentious topic restriction (the "enforcing administrator") affirmatively consents to the change,^[a] or is no longer an administrator;^[b] or
The contentious topic restriction was imposed (or last renewed) more than a year ago and:
- the restriction was imposed by a single administrator, or
- the restriction was an indefinite block.

A formal appeal is successful only if one of the following agrees with revoking or changing the contentious topic restriction:

a clear consensus of uninvolved administrators at AE,
a clear consensus of uninvolved editors at AN,
a majority of the Arbitration Committee, acting through a motion at ARCA.

Any administrator who revokes or changes a contentious topic restriction out of process (i.e. without the above conditions being met) may, at the discretion of the Arbitration Committee, be desysopped.

Standard of review
On community review

Uninvolved administrators at the arbitration enforcement noticeboard ("AE") and uninvolved editors at the administrators' noticeboard ("AN") should revoke or modify a contentious topic restriction on appeal if:

the action was inconsistent with the contentious topics procedure or applicable policy (i.e. the action was out of process),
the action was not reasonably necessary to prevent damage or disruption when first imposed, or
the action is no longer reasonably necessary to prevent damage or disruption.

On Arbitration Committee review

Arbitrators hearing an appeal at a request for amendment ("ARCA") will generally overturn a contentious topic restriction only if:

the action was inconsistent with the contentious topics procedure or applicable policy (i.e. the action was out of process),
the action represents an unreasonable exercise of administrative enforcement discretion, or
compelling circumstances warrant the full Committee's action.

^ The administrator may indicate consent at any time before, during, or after imposition of the restriction.
^ This criterion does not apply if the original action was imposed as a result of rough consensus at the arbitration enforcement noticeboard, as there would be no single enforcing administrator.

Appeals and administrator modifications of non-contentious topics sanctions

The Arbitration Committee procedures relating to modifications and appeals state:

Appeals by sanctioned editors

Appeals may be made only by the editor under sanction and only for a currently active sanction. Requests for modification of page restrictions may be made by any editor. The process has three possible stages (see "Important notes" below). The editor may:

ask the enforcing administrator to reconsider their original decision;
request review at the arbitration enforcement noticeboard ("AE") or at the administrators’ noticeboard ("AN"); and
submit a request for amendment at the amendment requests page ("ARCA"). If the editor is blocked, the appeal may be made by email through Special:EmailUser/Arbitration Committee (or, if email access is revoked, to arbcom-enwikimedia.org).

Modifications by administrators

No administrator may modify or remove a sanction placed by another administrator without:

the explicit prior affirmative consent of the enforcing administrator; or
prior affirmative agreement for the modification at (a) AE or (b) AN or (c) ARCA (see "Important notes" below).

Administrators modifying sanctions out of process may at the discretion of the committee be desysopped.

Nothing in this section prevents an administrator from replacing an existing sanction issued by another administrator with a new sanction if fresh misconduct has taken place after the existing sanction was applied.

Administrators are free to modify sanctions placed by former administrators – that is, editors who do not have the administrator permission enabled (due to a temporary or permanent relinquishment or desysop) – without regard to the requirements of this section. If an administrator modifies a sanction placed by a former administrator, the administrator who made the modification becomes the "enforcing administrator". If a former administrator regains the tools, the provisions of this section again apply to their unmodified enforcement actions.

Important notes:

For a request to succeed, either

(i) the clear and substantial consensus of (a) uninvolved administrators at AE or (b) uninvolved editors at AN or

(ii) a passing motion of arbitrators at ARCA

is required. If consensus at AE or AN is unclear, the status quo prevails.

While asking the enforcing administrator and seeking reviews at AN or AE are not mandatory prior to seeking a decision from the committee, once the committee has reviewed a request, further substantive review at any forum is barred. The sole exception is editors under an active sanction who may still request an easing or removal of the sanction on the grounds that said sanction is no longer needed, but such requests may only be made once every six months, or whatever longer period the committee may specify.
These provisions apply only to contentious topic restrictions placed by administrators and to blocks placed by administrators to enforce arbitration case decisions. They do not apply to sanctions directly authorized by the committee, and enacted either by arbitrators or by arbitration clerks, or to special functionary blocks of whatever nature.
All actions designated as arbitration enforcement actions, including those alleged to be out of process or against existing policy, must first be appealed following arbitration enforcement procedures to establish if such enforcement is inappropriate before the action may be reversed or formally discussed at another venue.

Information for administrators processing requests

Thank you for participating in this area. AE works best if there are a variety of admins bringing their expertise to each case. There is no expectation to comment on every case, and the Arbitration Committee (ArbCom) thanks all admins for whatever time they can give.

A couple of reminders:

Before commenting, please familiarise yourself with the referenced ArbCom case. Please also read all the evidence (including diffs) presented in the AE request.
When a request widens to include editors beyond the initial request, these editors must be notified and the notifications recorded in the same way as for the initial editor against whom sanctions were requested. Where some part of the outcome is clear, a partial close may be implemented and noted as "Result concerning X".
Enforcement measures in arbitration cases should be construed liberally to protect Wikipedia and keep it running efficiently. Some of the behaviour described in an enforcement request might not be restricted by ArbCom. However, it may violate other Wikipedia policies and guidelines; you may use administrative discretion to resolve it.
More than one side in a dispute may have ArbCom conduct rulings applicable to them. Please ensure these are investigated.

Closing a thread:

Once an issue is resolved, enclose it between {{hat}} and {{hab}} tags. A bot should archive it in 7 days.
Please consider referring the case to ARCA if the outcome is a recommendation to do so or the issue regards administrator conduct.
You can use the templates {{uw-aeblock}} (for blocks) or {{AE sanction}} (for other contentious topic restrictions) to give notice of sanctions on user talk pages.
Please log sanctions in the Arbitration enforcement log.

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Arbitration enforcement action appeal by TheTimesAreAChanging

The appeal is declined. GoldenRing (talk) 16:04, 30 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found here. According to the procedures, a "clear, substantial, and active consensus of uninvolved administrators" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action.

To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see WP:UNINVOLVED).

Appealing user: TheTimesAreAChanging (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) – TheTimesAreAChanging (talk) 09:06, 21 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Sanction being appealed: two month block at AE.

Administrator imposing the sanction: Sandstein (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)

Notification of that administrator: The appealing editor is asked to notify the administrator who made the enforcement action of this appeal, and then to replace this text with a diff of that notification. The appeal may not be processed otherwise. If a block is appealed, the editor moving the appeal to this board should make the notification.

Statement by TheTimesAreAChanging

Sandstein previously indicated that editing, e.g., Vietnam War was not in violation of the AP2 indef TBAN that he imposed last year. Specifically, he stated that this diff "appears unrelated to US politics," implying that the war as such is not within the scope of AP2. (Were my edits at Icebreaker (Suvorov) also within the scope of AP2, since the USSR was a major U.S. ally during World War II?) Therefore, I have to correct Sandstein's closing remark that "TheTimesAreAChanging does not contest having violated their topic ban and having made personal attacks." I intended to contest those assertions in my statement, commenting that MVBW's diffs—including minor copy edits—were not compelling examples of any TBAN violation but rather a frivolous attempt to remove a user from an unrelated content dispute. (I also directed readers to Paul Siebert's statement explaining that MVBW was, in fact, defending Hitler as a defense against the claim that my observation that MVBW was defending Hitler constituted an actionable WP:PA.) If this edit to Korean War is actionable, unlike the earlier edit to Vietnam War, the distinction seems arbitrary to me and the violation was unintentional. Given that no disruption (including PAs, etc.) was even alleged to have been associated with any of those diffs, blocking me on that basis seems to be punitive rather than preventative, so the block should be reduced.

I never appealed the TBAN, but I have little choice but to request that it be modified or reduced now that Sandstein is promulgating an expanded definition of its scope. You could say that any violation, even inadvertent, resets the clock, but I have made an obvious effort to adhere to the ban and the reaching evident in some of MVBW's diffs itself demonstrates this; certainly, there have been no other AE complaints against me since the TBAN was imposed, nor any edits of mine to any articles clearly labelled as subject to DS. Consider the following: 1.) My first AE TBAN was indefinite (rather than lasting for one, three, or six months, etc.), which is unprecedented in my experience on Wikipedia. Its reimposition has significantly limited my editing for more than a year, but if I have unknowingly made constructive edits to articles that could fall within the ban depending on the interpretation of an administrator, that would be an argument for narrowing it, rather than continuing with an open-ended restriction. 2.) The conduct for which I was previously sanctioned at AE was hardly exceptional; if you review the case, you will see that it concerned edit warring at an AP2 article, but I did not violate 3RR and 1RR/consensus required was not in place. While I regret taking the bait, three administrators—GoldenRing, Awilley, and Timotheus Canens—argued that the indef TBAN that Sandstein imposed was too harsh and/or that the other party in the dispute was guilty of (in the words of Timotheus Canens) "blatant violations of our content policies" by restoring what amounted to WP:HOAX material. In that case as well as the one recently initiated by MVBW, Sandstein took harsh, unilateral action against me without regard for the fact that my edits were directed against WP:HOAX and WP:PROFRINGE content, penalizing me for my inability to weaponize AE as effectively as other editors. The outcome genuinely seems to me to be unjust, and I would be remiss if I did not state my case here, whatever the odds of success.TheTimesAreAChanging (talk) 09:06, 21 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Sandstein

This appeal should be declined at least insofar at it is addressed against the enforcement block.

Regarding the topic ban: I leave it to other admins to decide whether the topic ban is still necessary, including as to its scope and length. However:

The fact that it had to be enforced, and that TheTimesAreAChanging made personal attacks in a discretionary sanctions topic area, indicates to me that it is probably still necessary.
The fact that it was not appealed during the year that it has been in force is also an indication that it is not prima facie unjust, overlong or unduly restrictive.

I already imposed this ban once with a time limit, and later lifted it based on TheTimesAreAChanging's assurances of good conduct. I then had to reinstate it, this time indefinitely. See WP:AELOG/2017#American politics 2. This makes me less willing to believe any new assurances of good conduct.

Regarding the enforcement block: The block should not be lifted at this time. I'm open to considering lifting it later if I am convinced that it is no longer needed to prevent ban violations and personal attacks. I'm not convinced about this at this time:

The appeal mistakenly argues that there was no topic ban violation. In my diff quoted by TheTimesAreAChanging, I merely said that a particular edit, about Khmer Rouge atrocities, had nothing to do with US politics. This is true, because that edit did not mention or relate to the United States. But the edits for which I blocked TheTimesAreAChanging did. They were about US interventions in various wars. They therefore concerned US politics, understood to include US foreign policy, as discussed in the AE closure, which is not contested here by TheTimesAreAChanging. My previous statements therefore do not invalidate the block.
The appeal makes the point that the block was "harsh and unilateral". All blocks are by their nature harsh and unilateral. These characteristics do not invalidate them.
The length of the block is not contested by TheTimesAreAChanging. I therefore do not address it here.
The block was not only made in response to topic ban violations, but also to personal attacks by TheTimesAreAChanging, to wit: "known troll", "in an effort to bolster WP:FRINGE nonsense defending Nazism" and "Stop defending Hitler!". TheTimesAreAChanging does not address these statements. This makes it appear likely that such attacks will reoccur if the block is lifted. Instead, TheTimesAreAChanging appears to argue that their position in the underlying content dispute was correct. This is immaterial. Even if it is true, it does not justify personal attacks. Content disagreements can and must at all times be expressed civilly by discussing only the content, rather than the other editor's supposed (nefarious) intent. See WP:NPA, WP:CIVIL, WP:AGF. Sandstein 08:43, 22 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Icewhiz

Allegedly TABN violating diffs by TheTimesAreAChanging include - diff in Korean War. While US foreign policy could be construed to be part of US politics - this is stretching it - the edits in question are far from the locus of AP2 (e.g. - spats between Democrats and Republicans) - if any article involving US foreign policy is seen under AP2 - then an AP2 ban is effectively a ban from every geopolitical article post-1932 (as the US is involved in most modern geopolitics - e.g. Brexit or September Knesset election, 2019 could be seen as AP2 due to US involvement, as would just about any military conflict in the period).

The trigger to the original complaint was MVBW removing 70% of Icebreaker (Suvorov) - [1] saying an IP added it (the IP reverted another IP that removed it diff) - content that has been present in the article for over a decade. Icebreaker is a book that transfers responsibility for WWII from Hitler to Stalin. This article in Slavic Review sees this as "overarching conspiracy theories". The book is mainly known for this controversy. The version created by MVBW - permalink is problematic from a NPOV and PROFRINGE standpoint - this version is absent anything critical on this book - presenting it as seemingly mainstream (when it is very much not so). Icewhiz (talk) 07:41, 22 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

ZScarpia - to be clear - I did not paint Suvorov's book in any which way - I quoted an academic article in Slavic Review which paints this theory in this way. this article in The Journal of Slavic Military Studies also notes the widespread rejection of this thesis. Icewhiz (talk) 15:22, 22 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by ZScarpia

Please see the comment dated 14:05, 22 September 2019 (UTC) I made on Icewhiz's inaccurate description of the book "Icebreaker" in the request concerning Paul Siebert above. ← ZScarpia 14:36, 22 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by My very best wishes

@Icewhiz. Yes, Suvorov claimed that Stalin tried to use Hitler as a proxy to attack Europe, which would allow the Red Army to “liberate” the Europe from Nazi occupation. This is a provocative idea and something debatable, but not a reason for committing personal attacks. My very best wishes (talk) 15:12, 22 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Paul (reply to this). It is appropriate to call someone "a Ukrainian nationalist", as one of admins did in the thread below, because he provided a large number of diffs, from which it is obvious for everyone that the user is indeed a Ukrainian nationalist. But it is something completely different to repeat personal accusations on noticeboards and talk pages without any strong evidence. That is what you do.

Statement by Paul Siebert

It would be fair to collapse it in a responce to MVBW's action

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

@Admins. The MVBW's statement #5 in the current case, for the third time, attracts additional attention to a friendly conversation that took place between me another user. That was not supposed to be a public conversation, but by that time my email contact was disabled (I disabled it after the EEML story; I was chocked by that case and I didn't want to create prerequisites for accusing me of off-Wiki communication in future), and Woogie and I had no other way to talk. I regret I incautiously made public some facts from the real life history of my family, and I feel very uncomfortable when the attention of third persons is being drawn, again and again, to that conversation (without any obvious reason). Can anybody stop MVBW, please!!!???

Since he is constantly changing his statement, to avoid confusion, I mean the statement #5 from this permalink.

--Paul Siebert (talk) 20:41, 26 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@KillerChihuahua: I asked GorillaWarfare about clarifications of how ARBEE work, and, based on their answer I have to concede that the TTAAC's edit summaries, which might be marginally acceptable at regular WP pages, are not acceptable in the areas covered by AE. However, the misconduct TTAAC was acting against is also punishable. Taking into account that it seems admins cannot take actions until some AE request had been filed, I'll better focus on preparation of that request. With regard to my own statements, they were made in a context of the prospective AE request, and contained a description of actionable misconduct at Sandstein's page, so I think a term "personal attack" is hardly applicable here.--Paul Siebert (talk) 05:35, 27 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by (involved editor)

Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by TheTimesAreAChanging

Result of the appeal by TheTimesAreAChanging

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

Good block, which was well substantiated in the original AE report.[2] Per that report, the user violated Eastern Europe sanctions by making personal attacks (accusations of Nazism at that) in the subject area ("deleted again by known WP:EEML troll User:My very best wishes ... in an effort to bolster WP:FRINGE nonsense defending Nazism" and "Stop defending Hitler!). User also violated an American Politics TBAN by editing Civilian casualties from U.S. drone strikes, United States involvement in regime change, Korean War, and Operation Freedom Deal. While AP does not inherently cover the entirety of American history or military history, these articles are obviously all highly controversial and politically charged aspects of US politics and foreign policy. This seems cut and dry, and 2 months might be severe if there was only one violation, but we're looking at repeated violations in multiple DS areas. ~Swarm~ ^{sting} 15:49, 22 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

If I understand Paul's argument, it's that calling MVBW a Nazi troll is okay in this context, because MVBW is a Nazi troll. Paul, if you continue to argue in support of personal attacks and cast aspersions, you're going to end up blocked as well. ~Swarm~ ^{sting} 23:33, 22 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed with Swarm. These were violations and violations made while making personal attacks, to boot, and following a block for disruptive socking. I agree with both the block and the length of it, and would also warn that we're on a pretty swift track to an indef, especially if there's any more socking. Stay well clear from articles that could even be considered to have anything to do with US politics. We have millions of articles totally unrelated to that subject; go work on them instead. Seraphimblade ^{Talk to me} 20:56, 22 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Pile on support of block, and chastisement of Paul - personal attacks are not excused because they are "accurate". There are other ways of making your point. Killer Chihuahua 13:48, 24 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
My very best wishes, apologies. My statement was not meant as a judgment on the accuracy or not of any personal attack; it was to inform Paul that arguing that a personal attack is "accurate" is pointless, because that's not a valid defense. Killer Chihuahua 18:00, 24 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Paul Siebert, you'd find better use of your time trimming your verbose statement in your case, also on this page, rather than pinging me to read you still defending your personal attacks of another editor. You are not impressing me with your desire to be a civil, responsible Wikipedia editor - quite the contrary, I am very concerned about your hostile behavior. Doubling down on your personal attack violations is not helping your position. Killer Chihuahua 18:18, 24 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

KHMELNYTSKYIA

KHMELNYTSKYIA is TBAN'd from Ukraine, broadly construed. TonyBallioni (talk) 01:20, 1 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning KHMELNYTSKYIA

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: Ymblanter (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 09:52, 24 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

User against whom enforcement is requested: KHMELNYTSKYIA (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced: Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Eastern European mailing list :

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

[3] POV edits on Roman Shukhevych, January 2019
[4] [5] [6] [7] and further reverts documented at the page history, in total 15 reverts within a month, against two different users: Edit warring on Dmitry Bortniansky, all reverted, one message on the talk page
[8], [9], [10] Examples of edit-warring at Vladimir Borovikovsky, edit-warring against two users, 10 reverts in total, no attempts to discuss at the talk page
[11] [12] Move-warring at Alexander Dukhnovych, against two users, no discussion at the talk page
[13], [14], [15] examples of edit-warring at Ivan Kozhedub, 13 reverts in two weeks, only showed up at the talk page when I said I will be submitting this enforcement request.

Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any

[16] Block for 24h for edit-warring on Vladimir Borovikovsky (non-AE block)

If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts): DS alert

Additional comments by editor filing complaint: KHMELNYTSKYIA is a Ukrainian nationalistic POV pusher. This is ok, we have a large number of nationalistic editors of all sorts. The problem is that their main conflict resolution method is edit-warring. I noticed them sometime last year; in January, after they made unhelpful edits on Roman Shukhevych, I gave them a DS alert. Most of their edits, in any articles, were reverted. In the Summer, they went through a number of articles of people who were born in the Russian Empire but in the areas which are now Ukraine, and added in the lede that they are "Ukrainian" (example: [17], the guy was born in the Russian empire, they instead write "Ukrainian-born"). I reverted all of these edits, referring to WP:MOS. They went to my talk page, I provided an explanation [18], referring again to WP:MOS, they were clearly unhappy but did not start edit-warring against me. Now, a couple of days ago, they edit-warred at Vladimir Borovikovsky against yet another user, but on exactly the same point, Ukrainian vs Russian. I gave them a 24h block. Now what did they do when the block expired? They went to Alexander Dukhnovych to start move-warring and to Ivan Kozhedub to continue edit-warring interrupted by my block. Their editing history mostly consists of reverts. I can block again, but I think it would be much easier for all of us to topic-ban them from everything related to Ukraine broadly construed.--Ymblanter (talk) 09:52, 24 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Notification

Discussion concerning KHMELNYTSKYIA

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by KHMELNYTSKYIA

Statement by Thomas.W

I feel there's a need to point out the level of nationalistic POV involved, because, as can be seen here, KHMELNYTSKYIA not only changes the nationality of historic people from Russian (as well as other nationalities/ethnicities) to Ukrainian, but also, through POV pipes like "... painter of [[Ukraine|Ukrainian]] origin", linking to the article about the modern day country of Ukraine, claims they were citizens of a country that didn't even exist until hundreds of years later. They also make undiscussed moves of articles, or in the case of moving Adam Kisiel to the modern Ukrainian language form of the name, Adam Kysil, moving an article in spite of there being a move discussion on the talkpage opposing the move, and the text of the article saying he self-identified as a Pole (and the area where he lived was also Polish at that time). That is applying nationality retroactively, seeing everyone who was born, or lived, in areas that now belong to the Ukraine as having been Ukrainians in spite of living long before the name Ukraine applied to any political entity (the first official use of "Ukraine" was AFAIK in 1918...). Adam Kisiel even lived before the Ukrainian language and concepts of a Ukrainian ethnicity existed (they instead spoke the Ruthenian language and saw themselves as Ruthenians). - Tom | Thomas.W ^talk 13:19, 24 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

KHMELNYTSKYIA is unfortunately not the only one who makes nationalistic POV edits on virtually all articles that are related to Ukraine, however tangential that connection is, because it has been a major problem for many years now, ranging from endless requested moves of Kiev to the name preferred in the Ukraine, Kyiv (see Talk:Kiev/naming), to repeated claims that Vladimir the Great (a name that is being constantly changed to Volodymyr the Great...) was "king of Ukraine", with a link to the modern-day country, in spite of Vladimir living a thousand years before Ukraine existed. - Tom | Thomas.W ^talk 13:29, 24 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Paul Siebert

I was having the same problems with this user too and gave her this advice. She seems to have ignored it. By saying that, I would object to severe actions against this user. Two factors should be taken into consideration:

Recent political situation in Ukraine led to a rise of a wave of nationalism of a worst kind, and the overall informational background there is totally different than in the outside world. It seems she thinks her country is surrounded by enemies, which falsify Ukrainian history. By permanently banning/topic banning her, we just confirm this belief.
This user seems to rely too much on domestic literature, which is currently of a terrible quality. Partially, the reason is that good literature is not available in Ukraine. I think this user needs mentoring, not a permanent ban, although some reasonably short break would not harm.--Paul Siebert (talk) 17:35, 24 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@KillerChihuahua:, let's approach to it as to a technical problem. The ban is not a punishment. It is a chance to reconsider one's behaviour. In connection to that, may I at least ask you to exclude a discussion of Ukraine related topics on my talk page from the topic ban's scope? I believe by allowing KHMELNITSKAYA to do so we would help her to look at the subject at different angle.--Paul Siebert (talk) 17:56, 24 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@KillerChihuahua:, that would be even better. Although, maybe, article talk pages should be excluded, for article talks include a consensus building process, and I am not sure she is ready for that. Let's allow her to address to any user on their talk pages, and open article talk pages in 6 months.--Paul Siebert (talk) 18:14, 24 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by (username)

Comment by My very best wishes

The history of Ivan Kozhedub does show obvious edit warring. But it takes two to tango. Her "opponent", User:Ушкуйник does the same and has been alerted of discretionary sanctions in this area [19]. At the very least, his behavior should be considered in this request. Speaking about their disagreement, it appears that KHMELNYTSKYIA removes source that is indeed a disputable primary source and was not properly referenced (no title, no pages, etc.) [20]. I did not check anything else. My very best wishes (talk) 16:47, 24 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Result concerning KHMELNYTSKYIA

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

I'm leaning towards a one year topic ban, but am open to other options. I look forward to hearing from other admins on this. Killer Chihuahua 13:50, 24 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
If we're to limit the ban so KHMELNYTSKYIA may discuss and learn, as opposed to edit elsewhere and learn, then all talk pages would be appropriate, IMO. Not just one. Killer Chihuahua 18:03, 24 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I'm good with an indef topic ban. It should be made clear that this applies to both article and talk pages - no mentoring or discussion regarding Ukraine. Review filing allowed after 6 months but not before. Killer Chihuahua 12:09, 25 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The edit-warring is extensive and KHMELNYTSKYIA appears undeterred by a 24-hour block. For those reasons I can't see the value in a time-limited topic ban – it's wasteful of editors' time to impose a TB that can be waited out and followed by a return to previous behaviour. If KHMELNYTSKYIA can learn to edit collaboratively and demonstrate that, then I can see the point of removing a topic ban. That leads me to conclude that there should be an indefinite topic ban, reviewable after six months. I suggest that any topic ban should be from articles and article talk pages related to Ukraine, leaving user talk available for mentorship. --RexxS (talk) 00:36, 25 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Paul Siebert: The primary purpose of a topic ban is to protect the encyclopedia; the opportunity to rehabilitate an offender is a secondary consideration. Naturally, I agree with you that keeping KHMELNYTSKYIA away from Ukraine-related article talk pages is preferable. --RexxS (talk) 00:43, 25 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Agree with RexxS and endorse an indef TBAN. Accepting a voluntary mentorship would be a great additional component of that, and would be a great path to have the ban lifted in the future. However, speaking from experience, there's no guarantee that mentorship as a gentler alternative will not be a complete waste of time, and our priority is preventing disruption to the project, not behavioral therapy. ~Swarm~ ^{sting} 01:12, 25 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I think a regular TBAN is in order on all pages related to Ukraine. Any mentoring or remedial efforts should happen in a completely different topic area, and when they can demonstrate an ability to edit collaboratively they can apply to return to this one. – bradv🍁 01:38, 25 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Agree with the above, and they've edited in the last few days and not responded here. I'm closing this with a TBAN. TonyBallioni (talk) 01:30, 1 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

ClarinoI

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning ClarinoI

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: FDW777 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 07:35, 29 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

User against whom enforcement is requested: ClarinoI (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced: Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/The Troubles#Amendment (February 2019):

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

14:01, 24 September 2019‎ Calling a living person a terrorist
20:19, 26 September 2019 Same as above
15:12, 27 September 2019 Same as above
22:53, 28 September 2019 Same as above

Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any

Date Explanation
Date Explanation

If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)

Alerted about discretionary sanctions in the area of conflict in the last twelve months, see the system log linked to above. Also see here, as I do not know how the system log works but I cannot see my notification.

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

On 15:51, 27 September 2019 I explained to the editor why their edit was incorrect and suggested they discuss it on the article's talk page. This was ignored and the editor reverted again.

@Pudeo: The sentence being edited already ends with "best known for planting a bomb in the Brighton Grand Hotel targeting Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher and her Cabinet, which killed five people". I would think most people reading that would form their own opinion of Patrick Magee, without the need to apply a contentious unattributed label to a living person. FDW777 (talk) 18:28, 29 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@GoldenRing: I had no wish for ClarinoI to use my talk page as a soapbox for their views. I had previously directed them to use the article's talk page here. Also in that diff I refuted their point that the term "volunteer" suggests he "were helping set up seats for his local church's fund raising concert". Even after I pointed out the article links to Volunteer (Irish republican) not to Volunteer ClarinoI still claimed it did here, so it is hardly fair to claim I am failing to discuss when ClarinoI does not read the article or my comments properly and makes the same incorrect assertion. I don't care what, if any, sanction is applied, providing it stops the edit warring. FDW777 (talk) 16:05, 30 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

[21]

Discussion concerning ClarinoI

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by ClarinoI

Statement by Pudeo

This person is described as "terrorist", "former terrorist" or having committed a terrorist attack in some sources: [22][23][24] though he himself objects to being labeled as such: [25]. MOS:TERRORIST does not mean the word can't be used to describe a BLP in Wikipedia. For instance, the stable version of Anders Behring Breivik has called him a terrorist since 2011.

So that's not an outrageous BLP violation itself. The problem is that he didn't use sources or communicate when questioned. Maybe he's new. But he needs to do that when doing these kind of contentious edits. --Pudeo (talk) 18:02, 29 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Buffs

I personally take a very dim view of those who target and intentionally slaughter innocents for political purposes. By definition, he's a terrorist and one convicted of his crimes. Describing him otherwise is inappropriate and an attempt to push WP:NPOV beyond the lines of credulity. That said, I think an RfC and discussion should resolve this and I'll happily take whatever consensus comes about.

This seems like a relatively new user doing noob things and should be handled accordingly. I endorse a short block for edit warring, but we should work to engage with this editor, not expunge them; I'm not seeing any violation of WP:BLP. This is a SIMPLE content dispute that doesn't need to be here. Buffs (talk) 17:05, 30 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by (username)

Result concerning ClarinoI

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

This is actionable. A discussion could well be had about whether this man should be described as a terrorist: He set a bomb that killed five people, and that article, Brighton hotel bombing, is part of the category Category:Terrorist incidents in the United Kingdom in 1984. But this label would need reliable sources. And so far, all ClarinoI has been doing is to edit-war about this. I think an indef WP:NOTHERE normal admin block is indicated. Sandstein 09:29, 29 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I think an indef would be harsh here. Inserting the word "terrorist" into a paragraph which otherwise describes him as a member of a terrorist organisation, responsible for a terrorist attack and gives him the nickname "Brighton bomber" is hardly on the long end of BLP violations. FDW777's response to ClarinoI's attempt to discuss it smacks rather of WP:CRYBLP. ClarinoI does need to respond here and indicate that they are aware of the need to source information and to refrain from edit-warring, though. GoldenRing (talk) 15:50, 30 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I, also, am more on the GoldenRing than the Sandstein end of the proposed resolution. Let's see if the user responds. El_C 15:53, 30 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
See this story. This is not Wikipedia's problem to fix. Whether to call him a terrorist in Wiki-voice or not is a question for the Talk page, it is not a violation of any policy. Guy (help!) 20:35, 30 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I have to disagree with Guy. Whether to call a BLP subject a terrorist in Wikipedia's voice is not a legitimate content dispute. Per the MOS, invoking the label at all requires widespread usage to describe the person in sources, and only then can it be used with in-text attribution. But this is not even that situation. This is not a user here to improve an article with sourced content. This is pure and straightforward POV-pushing to make an article make a negative claim about a subject without a source. They edit warred over it and ignored warnings. Preventing this sort of SPA POV-pushing is exactly why we have these sanctions. I'm all for avoiding biting and AGF, but if there is a refusal to be accountable here and try to learn going forward (or continued disruption), a straight Troubles TBAN would make sense. ~Swarm~ ^{sting} 00:25, 1 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Right. Per MOS:TERRORIST "Value-laden labels...may express contentious opinions and are best avoided unless widely used by reliable sources to describe the subject, in which case use in-text attribution." ~Awilley (talk) 00:55, 1 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Especially when we are talking about the Troubles, and this person being associated with the IRA, replacing the accurate (if not questionable term) Volunteer (Irish republican) with "terrorist", without adding attribution, is definitely wrong. We can let readers make their own determination if IRA members should be called terrorists, but WP should be avoiding that direct association in wikivoice like the plague, and this is definitely an actionable report within the Troubles confines. --Masem (t) 00:59, 1 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Whatever the merits of this case, the user has made seven edits in total and none since Sunday. I suspect we have seen the last of them. GoldenRing (talk) 14:24, 2 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
This seems like a relatively new user that lacks an understanding of our policies. A pointer to them, along with a short block for edit-warring—as a regular admin action, not an AE action—would be appropriate under normal circumstances. However, I would close this matter as stale since, as GR points out, the editor has made seven edits altogether and none in the last five days or so. Neutrality^talk 01:56, 4 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Roscelese

The reported edits were not violations. Slugger O'Toole is banned from making any reports about Roscelese at any administrative noticeboard, including but not limited to AE and ANI. Both parties are advised that one or two way interaction bans and/or blocks will be imposed if the interpersonal disruption continues. All editors are reminded that the purpose of the sanctions is to bring stability to the topic area and facilitate collegial improvement to the encyclopaedia, they are not there to remove or hinder those you disagree with. Thryduulf (talk) 11:41, 5 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning Roscelese

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: Slugger O'Toole (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 13:48, 3 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

User against whom enforcement is requested: Roscelese (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced: Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Christianity_and_Sexuality#Motion:_Roscelese_restricted_.28September_2015.29 :

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

Roscelese has three restrictions, including being "required to discuss any content reversions on the page's talk page." The difs below show instances where she did not. It's true that she did give explanations in her edit summaries. However, in a previous AE case she made a similar argument. The argument was not persuasive as the restrction clearly states explanations must be made on the talk page.

23:03, September 6, 2019 Deleted text with no explanation on talk
20:44, September 28, 2019 Deleted text with no explanation on talk
11:55, September 24, 2019 Deleted text with no explanation on talk
11:54, September 24, 2019 Deleted text with no explanation on talk

Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any

Roscelese blocked for one week per AE report. 4 April 2019
Roscelese blocked for two weeks per AE report. 26 April 2019
Roscelese blocked for four weeks per AE report. 10 June 2019

If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)

Previously blocked as a discretionary sanction for conduct in the area of conflict, see the block log linked to above.

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

I used WP:REVERT as a basis for my report. I could not find a limit there on how soon the reverting edit had to be made. All it says is that a revert "reverses a prior edit or undoing the effects of one or more edits." In other actions that have resulted in a block, the offending reverts were not immediate but went back several weeks. I believe her edits here are similar. If I am wrong in this, I would appreciate someone pointing it out to me.

It is true that I do occasionally check Roscelese's activity, as she checks mine. I don't consider that hounding in either direction. If I am wrong about that, I sincerely apologize. More to the point, as we have no ongoing disputes, I can assure you that this was in no way an attempt to silence her.@Binksternet: I think you may be a bit confused. In our last dispute, and in several others, it was Roscelese, not me, who was attempting to portray the Church in a more conservative light. We often disagree, but I think the articles we both work on are in reasonably good shape now, partly as a result of this give and take. --Slugger O'Toole (talk) 17:36, 3 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Here

Discussion concerning Roscelese

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by Roscelese

Slugger clearly needs to be reminded that my restriction prohibits reverting, not any editing. I obviously concur that his repeated frivolous reports to AE constitute harassment by this point. –Roscelese (talk ⋅ contribs) 18:05, 3 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Query: will this remedy be entered as part of the arb case?

@GoldenRing: other users have been one-way ibanned for harassing me before and it's easy enough to confirm that I didn't abuse the situation! After Badmintonhist was ibanned (and eventually indeffed for continued violations of the ban) I believe my only attempts to engage him were, well, filing SPIs for his socks that continued stalking me.

@Awilley: This is not the first or, I think, even the second time that Slugger, who is not in any way a new user, has has to be chided for jumping the gun about things that are not violations.

@Pudeo: this is not the first report from Slugger that's being dismissed as not a violation, and it's happened more recently than the diff you provided...?

–Roscelese (talk ⋅ contribs) 14:36, 4 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Aquillion: Thank you, Aquillion! –Roscelese (talk ⋅ contribs) 16:34, 4 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Binksternet

Looks like hounding to me, with Slugger O'Toole trying once again to silence Roscelese who represents a voice in opposition to Slugger's political advocacy. In real life, Slugger is a pro-life activist, a member of the Knights of Columbus, and connected to the Catholic University of America (CUA). Starting out with the name Briancua, Slugger has been trying for four years to shut down Roscelese who continues to write about Catholicism and homosexuality in a way that upsets Slugger's plan to show the most conservative aspect of the Catholic Church. I would suggest an interaction ban placed on Slugger. Binksternet (talk) 15:18, 3 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Pudeo

This is a poor filing, as those indeed are not reverts (except one), and even if they were, it would be too much of a "gotcha" to gather them from completely unrelated articles without edit conflicts. There are no personal parole officers, though this also means editors with restrictions will get away with some instances. Although Binksternet's comment above was not outing, do we really assess the real life memberships of editors at AE? Seems like that is very close to what is described in the second bullet point of What is considered to be a personal attack?

I hope that Roscelese's description of his repeated frivolous reports to AE constitute harassment by this point did not include the three AE reports that actually resulted in blocks for violations. Lastly, @Thryduulf: I've not seen any evidence of Roscelese's engaging in unwarranted behaviour towards Slugger, this edit from the first AE report would be a pretty good example of that. Suppose that there is a reason why Roscelese has a 1RR and personalization restiction in the first place. --Pudeo (talk) 06:43, 4 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Aquillion

Given that Slugger O'Toole is patiently hounding Roscelese here over things that are not reverts, and given that all three of the previous reports O'Toole references were made by him (which is more than a little excessive), I strongly urge a WP:BOOMERANG restriction barring O'Toole from bringing any more administrative or AE requests against Roscelese in the future, possibly even more broadly against filing WP:AE requests at all. The topic area is highly active, and if Roscelese is actually a problem there should be plenty of other people bringing reports - at this point it is hard to interpret the situation as anything but O'Toole trying to game the system to remove someone they disagree with. I would also suggest reconsidering Roscelese's restrictions - while, yes, some of the other reports were genuine violations, they don't seem to have caused much disruption, and the fact that O'Toole was able to so easily find unrelated minor infractions and get Roscelese repeatedly blocked with them suggests that the restriction may not be reasonable or workable, especially given that at a quick glance nobody else seems to have had any problem with Roscelese's conduct in the four years since the restrictions were placed. The fact that Roscelese had a clean block log for four years and was then blocked three times in rapid succession when O'Toole started targeting them implies, to me, that the problem is with the overly-broad restrictions and not with Roscelese. EDIT: Also, by my reading none of O'Toole's previous reports came with any sort of warning or request to self-revert - I believe that's normal for revert-limit-based restrictions, since it's so easy to violate them by accident. If Roscelese's restrictions aren't relaxed entirely, I would suggest at least a requirement for some sort of warning of that sort - the purpose of the restrictions is to ensure article stability, not to enable games of gotcha like this. --Aquillion (talk) 15:40, 4 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by (username)

Result concerning Roscelese

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

Those look like regular edits that happen to remove content. That is different than a revert. The only one where I could find a corresponding "edit" that had been "reverted" was this which removed a paragraph that had been added 5 months earlier. ~Awilley (talk) 14:11, 3 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
RE Vanamonde's options, I would support the TBAN on Slugger pursuing arbitration enforcement against Roscelese but oppose an IBAN. I have seen evidence that Slugger is misusing the AE process, but I haven't seen evidence that their interactions at the intersection of Catholicism and Homosexuality have been problematic enough to warrant a messy IBAN. It is also my opinion that it is good for our articles when people with different viewpoints are able to talk to each other. Finally I don't want to punish Slugger too hard for not knowing that we don't enforce every removal of content as a revert. It's a very common misconception, and Help:Reverting is not clear on that. ~Awilley (talk) 23:40, 3 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with Awilley that the edits in question don't appear to violate the letter—much less the spirit—of Roscelese's editing restrictions. It doesn't appear that Slugger O'Toole has edited the articles in question. In other words, it appears that Slugger O'Toole is combing through Roscelese's contribution history looking for ways to get her in trouble, in this case on pretty flimsy grounds. That's hounding—an inappropriate behavior—and if it continues I would strongly suggest a sanction against Slugger O'Toole. MastCell ^Talk 16:13, 3 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I agree. Something similar took place at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive254#Roscelese in July 2019. We should now consider sanctioning Slugger O'Toole, perhaps with an interaction ban. Sandstein 16:32, 3 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- Thank you for finding that report, Sandstein—I had looked briefly but didn't turn up the link. In light of this continued concern, I agree that some sort of sanction for Slugger O'Toole, aimed at preventing further hounding, would be appropriate. It's one thing if he organically observes a violation from Roscelese on an article they co-edit, but in this case the only plausible explanation is that he's hunting through her contribution history with the express goal of finding grounds to file a report. I will defer to admin consensus as to what form, if any, a sanction should take. MastCell ^Talk 16:40, 3 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with my colleagues. The distinction between a revert and a removal can be subtle, but the edits in this case are obviously removals, not reverts; and a smell test suggests this is an attempt to clear the decks of opposition, rather than to address disruption. In order of preference, I would recommend a one-way IBAN (Slugger is banned from interacting with Roscelese), or a TBAN on Slugger from making reports to administrator noticeboards about Roscelese, or a two-way IBAN. Vanamonde (Talk) 19:00, 3 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I too agree with everyone above, and my first two preferences align exactly with Vanamonde93's. I don't support a two-way IBAN at this point as I've not seen any evidence of Roscelese's engaging in unwarranted behaviour towards Slugger. Thryduulf (talk) 23:12, 3 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- @Pudeo: Ok, I'll rephrase that to "recent evidence" - February is not recent and if they made that edit today it would be covered by their existing restrictions. Unless there are any objections from other admins I'll go ahead and implement a 1-way iban in a few hours. Thryduulf (talk) 09:10, 4 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  - @Thryduulf: My only qualm - it's not quite an objection - is that, where there is a long history of antagonism between two editors, a one-way IBAN is very easily weaponised, and even more so when that antagonism is focused on a particular topic. I would opt for the no-fault two-way IBAN here. GoldenRing (talk) 10:29, 4 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    - @GoldenRing: I can see the logic in that, although if a one-way iban is imposed then it would come with a reminder that if it is weaponised or misused it will be converted to a two-way iban PDQ. The need to do so would not look good if/when Roscelese comes to appeal their restrictions (and conversely it not being weaponised despite it being easy to do so would be a point in their favour). @Pudeo, Vanamonde93, MastCell, and Sandstein: do you have any thoughts? Thryduulf (talk) 12:37, 4 October 2019 (UTC) @Awilley: I missed your name, sorry. Thryduulf (talk) 12:38, 4 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

If the one-way ban is in fact gamed by Roscelese, we can at any time respond with sanctions on Roscelese. But if the concern expressed by GoldenRing is shared by others, a restriction on Slugger O'Toole from making AE requests regarding Roscelese could be an alternative. Sandstein 13:59, 4 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

As Sandstein says, I think a sanction on Roscelese for misusing the IBAN would be easy to impose, should the need arise; and it should be fairly easy to see if the need has arisen. Pudeo's diff is concerning, but half a year old at this point. My preferences, therefore, are unchanged, though I think Awilley's point about misunderstanding revert vs removal is a good one, and therefore strengthens the case for a lesser sanction. Vanamonde (Talk) 14:18, 4 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Thryduulf: I would oppose both the one-way and two-way IBANs. IBANs in my experience are a messy solution that should be reserved for messy problems. This AFAICT is not a messy problem, and it can easily be solved with a lesser sanction. I can tell from their interactions in the past few cases here that Roscelese and Slugger are annoyed by each other, but both of them have kept things pretty civil, and both seem like grown-ups who can manage a little conflict without the "help" of an IBAN. ~Awilley (talk) 14:40, 4 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I strongly support a TBAN on Slugger from making reports to any administrator noticeboards about Roscelese. Since the intention of the report we have here shines through (=an attempt to remove an opponent), I think a TBAN only from taking Roscelese to AE would leave the door too open for simply moving these attempts to other noticeboards. Bishonen | talk 15:15, 4 October 2019 (UTC).[reply]
OK, given all the above comments I see a strong consensus for banning Slugger O'Toole from making reports about Roscelese to any administrative noticeboard, including but not limited to AE and ANI and advising both parties that one or two way ibans, and/or blocks, may be imposed if further disruption occurs. Thryduulf (talk) 11:37, 5 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

François Robere

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning François Robere

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: My very best wishes (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 00:53, 5 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

User against whom enforcement is requested: François Robere (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced: Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Eastern_Europe#Discretionary_sanctions :

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

17:13, 2 October 2019 WP:Aspersions
08:33, 4 October 2019 - unsubstantiated accusations of several contributors of Holocaust denial. Publication of an "attack article" off-wiki does not mean that personal attacks should continue on-wiki.
13:57, 4 October 2019 - "I'll be happy to give you a whole bunch of diffs to show you how some editors consistently apply antisemitic stereotypes". WP:Aspersions and worse.
15:15, 4 October 2019 - reply to warning
22:19, 4 October 2019 - doubling down

If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)

Alerted about discretionary sanctions in the area of conflict in the last twelve months 26 August 2019.
Participated in an arbitration request about the area of conflict in the last twelve months [26].

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

My apology if I misunderstood something, but I thought it was obvious which contributors François Robere is talking about in diffs #1 and #3 because he named them in diff #2 and because of the overall context of the conversations and previous history.

@Paul. There is no need to accuse the entire project or anyone specific of antisemitism, racism, or "promoting Żydokomuna" (as FR does). Just bring the diffs and say they were "problematic". If the edit was indeed antisemitic, everyone will see it.

@Levivich. It does not matter how you call the diffs. They can be #1, #2, whatever - if they are as obvious as your example. If however, you must create a wall of text with 20 references to "prove" something terrible about your content "opponent", then do not do it, and do not call him "names".

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

here.

Discussion concerning François Robere

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by François Robere

No editor was named here.
Citing a newly published article at a major newspaper (Haaretz), backed by two major historians (Jan Grabowski and Havi Dreifuss).^[1]
1. This is not an "off-Wiki attack article", but a piece vetted by some of the most reliable names in the field, and I was quoting it as-is as part of an ongoing discussion at Talk:Jimbo Wales. Other editors have raised it, independently, on at least four other pages.[27][28][29][30]
No editor was named here.
"Warning" from admin I'm unfamiliar with, alleging I made comments I didn't make (and that I clearly expressed my disagreement with twice [31]). Discussion was promptly closed by an Arb as "off-topic discussion that was deteriorating quickly".[32] I was not personally warned, nor singled out by the Arb.
Citing an RS where the editor was explicitly mentioned. I have only mentioned the editor once; this is the same mention as #2.
1. Editor is under T-ban (history of Poland during World War II) and I-ban (Icewhiz),[33] and the discussion was about Icewhiz and Holocaust revisionism.

The OP is looking to ban me for citing a highly reliable source once; commenting on unnamed, ambiguous "editors" twice; and for being addressed by an editor I don't know for things I didn't say. I trust the admins will dismiss this request with haste. François Robere (talk) 11:01, 5 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Aside

@Masem and Black kite: I'm still looking for a way for us to be able to discuss issues of bias and prejudice openly without being under threat of sanctions. At the moment not only can you not say that "editor X is Y" - which I'm perfectly okay with - but you can't even say that "edit X introduces Y material" - which is a pure "content" statement. What's more, there are occasions where you would want to address conduct vis-à-vis content, and you can't - for example "editor X repeatedly introduces Y material".^[2] In academia this would be allowed, and on rare occasions you do see scholars use this sort of terms to criticize one another (eg. [34]); we need to have a similar ability for similarly-rare cases, rather than completely shut the idea off. As I said to another editor - people who are prejudiced in any way don't need these labels - they can go along being prejudicial without ever putting a label on it; it's the people who fight prejudice that need the labels, and if we block everyone from ever using them just because they're offensive, then we'd actually be impeding minorities' ability to fight for equity, while not promoting civility or neutrality in any meaningful way. Put differently: in order to promote neutrality, we need to be able to name bias, and at the moment we can't.

The distinctions here also matter: there's a big difference between stating that "X is Y", and stating that "X promoted Y". "Promoting" something in any single instance does immediately mean an editor is a "true believer". There are degrees of bias, and no one is completely free of biases. In the "real" world we'd be able to have this discussion at this level of granularity; here we cannot.

If you read the discussion behind #3 (not all of it, just the last part, between Guy and me),[35] you'll see it's more or less the culmination of all of the above. It really is something the community will need to address at some point, because it's not achieving its purpose and people are getting worn down. François Robere (talk) 15:20, 5 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ Benjakob, Omer (2019-10-03). "The Fake Nazi Death Camp: Wikipedia's Longest Hoax, Exposed". Haaretz. Retrieved 2019-10-03.
^ Assume all of this is accompanied by diffs, sources, policy arguments, etc.

Statement by Roscelese

Speaking as a user with minimal prior editing history in this area, the problems that Francois is describing represent a serious threat to the integrity of Wikipedia and it would be a shame if describing them were sanctionable behavior. –Roscelese (talk ⋅ contribs) 03:00, 5 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Paul Siebert

@François Robere: raises a very important question in his "Aside" section. Per WP:NPA, "comparing editors to Nazis, communists, terrorists, dictators, or other infamous persons" is considered a personal attack (which is correct: nobody knows who these users are in real life). Instead, we are advised to "Comment on content, not on the contributor." In that respsect, it is really interesting to know what wording should have FR used in that case? Obviously, to use a "trial-and-error" approach (to try some wording and see if admins ban you) is hardly a good idea.

I am interested to know how should FR, as well as any other user, describe real or alleged manifestations of antisemitism? Is "the edit made by X is antisemitic" a comment on a content or on a contributor? Or he should have used some newspeak like "I find the statement Y a manifestation of antisemitism", and then to show a diff without calling a name? Or we are allowed to add: "the statement X was made by a user X"? Is this language ok? If no, then how could we describe and report a cases of antisemitism? If yes, what is wrong with combining these two statements in one: "A statement Y made by a user X is a manifestation of antisemitism"?

I am asking because that seems to be not only FR's and my problem: another good faith user told me he could be in the same situation, because the rules are unclear.

I already asked similar question on the NPA talk page, and the answer was literally "No universal answer exists. In connection to that, I am wondering how can good faith users observe rules that are obviously vague.--Paul Siebert (talk) 03:23, 6 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Levivich

@MVBW: If I said, "Calling a black man a n*****r is problematic," I think others would find that downright insulting. Because it’s not "problematic", it’s racist. Euphemisms aren’t appropriate in such situations, in my opinion; I think it’s better if we call things what they are.

Statement by (username)

Result concerning François Robere

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

I'm not seeing anything actionable here. In particular, the alleged aspersions were not cast against any identified or identifiable editors. Everybody in the whole Poland/WWII topic area needs to seriously calm down or at some point we'll have to ban a whole lot of people. Sandstein 11:26, 5 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Agree w/ Sandstein here, and as one that read that Haaretz article, it may out some past editors' names (I haven't checked to see if they were already outed), but it is far from an attack article but a fair look at a situation on WP related to this area. I do think FR needs to tone down the rhetoric - behavior is in the ballpark to the reasons why an editor like TheRamblingMan came under specific sanctions but not at a point of actionability yet. --Masem (t) 14:09, 5 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I'm unconvinced that there is anything sanctionable here, but as Masem says, FR needs to dial it back a lot here; there are only so many times that you can accuse un-named editors of anti-semitism without naming them (diff3), but then name other editors in a separate context (diff2) without eventually doing something that will get you sanctioned. Icewhiz, sadly, went too far with this; it would be unfortunate if it happened again. Black Kite (talk) 15:02, 5 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

WikipediansSweep

Blocked for a week. Sandstein 05:28, 6 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning WikipediansSweep

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: CaptainEek (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 00:15, 6 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

User against whom enforcement is requested: WikipediansSweep (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced: Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Pseudoscience#Discretionary_sanctions :

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

Oct 2 More ranting about Walter Russell
September 25 User page screed on how science isn't actually science
October 5 Definitely more pseudoscience

Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any

September 19 Blocked for ignoring topic ban
September 19 AE Topic Ban on PSCI, including Walter Russell

If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)

Previously blocked as a discretionary sanction for conduct in the area of conflict, see the block log linked to above.
Previously given a discretionary sanction for conduct in the area of conflict on September 19 by Sandstein (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA).

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

I had tried to give WikipediansSweep the benefit of the doubt, and it was clear that ජපස (talk · contribs) was trying to be helpful and try to keep WS out of trouble. But clearly WS is only interested in talking about Pseudoscience, and has little interest in actually contributing. Of their 147 edits, only 25 are to mainspace. Captain Eek ^{Edits Ho Cap'n!}⚓ 00:15, 6 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

[36]

Discussion concerning WikipediansSweep

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by WikipediansSweep

This is sad man... that comments been there forever with people in here who've already seen it. So idk what you're gonna do because I asked a simple question, if anything you're mad at some sort of something. I have no idea I'm not you, but the guise of this format doesn't fool me. Totally a tattletale, as if i ate chocolate after lunch.

Also be good editors and contributors, read the Twilight Club. — Preceding unsigned comment added by WikipediansSweep (talk • contribs)

Statement by (username)

Result concerning WikipediansSweep

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

This is a clear topic ban violation. I am blocking WikipediansSweep for a week. Given that they do not indicate that they are interested in anything but fringe science, which they are banned from, I anticipate that any next block will have to be of indefinite duration. Sandstein 05:27, 6 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Greyshark09

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning Greyshark09

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: Onceinawhile (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 07:52, 6 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

User against whom enforcement is requested: Greyshark09 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced: Wikipedia:Arbitration/Index/Palestine-Israel_articles#Standard_discretionary_sanctions

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

21:11, 3 October 2019 removes connection between Ma'abarot and One Million Plan
21:17, 3 October 2019 Proposes deletion of One Million Plan. I will not comment on the merits of this here. Discussion began just half an hour later. Rather than responding to the subsequent discussion, the editor went on a campaign (see below).
06:25, 4 October 2019 tags image connecting Ma'abarot and One Million Plan as dubious, and opens a talk discussion. Canvasses another editor with whom he was previously aligned Note, the editor pinged me too, knowing I was already actively involved in the discussion
06:02, 6 October 2019 deletes the same image, after it was deleted and replaced by two other editors (including the canvassed editor), without having addressed any of the talk comments
06:11, 6 October 2019 deletes sourced content related to the same image on another article

If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)

User_talk:Greyshark09/Archive_5#Discretionary_sanctions_notification

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

[37]

Discussion concerning Greyshark09

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by Greyshark09

Statement by No More Mr Nice Guy

Regarding Onceinawhile's first diff, please note there was a discussion on the talk page [38] the last time he tried to add the One Million Plan to the template almost 4 years ago, where no editor supported its inclusion and two objected. Adding it again without discussion is a violation of ARBPIA, while removing it is restoring a stable consensus version. This is a slow edit war on Onceinawhile's part. Obvious ARBPIA violation is obvious. No More Mr Nice Guy (talk) 08:12, 6 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

As for the 3rd diff, I am the main author of the article, not "another editor with whom [Greyshark] was aligned". I had to completely rewrite the article after Onceinawhile created a blatantly NPOV violating article and then submitted it to DYK. Compare his version here to the stable version at One Million Plan.

The other diffs provided don't show any ARBPIA violations either, and this filing is a very obvious attempt to get rid of an opponent. No More Mr Nice Guy (talk) 08:36, 6 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by (username)

Result concerning Greyshark09

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

[1] The administrator may indicate consent at any time before, during, or after imposition of the restriction.

[2] This criterion does not apply if the original action was imposed as a result of rough consensus at the arbitration enforcement noticeboard, as there would be no single enforcing administrator.

[3] Benjakob, Omer (2019-10-03). "The Fake Nazi Death Camp: Wikipedia's Longest Hoax, Exposed". Haaretz. Retrieved 2019-10-03.

[4] Assume all of this is accompanied by diffs, sources, policy arguments, etc.

[a]

[b]

[1]

[2]

@@ Line 486: / Line 486: @@
 ====Statement by No More Mr Nice Guy====
 Regarding Onceinawhile's first diff, please note there was a discussion on the talk page [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Aliyah#One_Milliion_Plan] the last time he tried to add the One Million Plan to the template almost 4 years ago, where no editor supported its inclusion and two objected. Adding it again without discussion is a violation of ARBPIA, while removing it is restoring a stable consensus version. This is a slow edit war on Onceinawhile's part. Obvious ARBPIA violation is obvious. [[User:No More Mr Nice Guy|No More Mr Nice Guy]] ([[User talk:No More Mr Nice Guy|talk]]) 08:12, 6 October 2019 (UTC)
+As for the 3rd diff, I am the main author of the article, not "another editor with whom [Greyshark] was aligned". I had to completely rewrite the article after Onceinawhile created a blatantly NPOV violating article and then submitted it to DYK. Compare his version [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=One_Million_Plan&oldid=613804051 here] to the stable version at [[One Million Plan]].
+The other diffs provided don't show any ARBPIA violations either, and this filing is a very obvious attempt to get rid of an opponent. [[User:No More Mr Nice Guy|No More Mr Nice Guy]] ([[User talk:No More Mr Nice Guy|talk]]) 08:36, 6 October 2019 (UTC)
 ====Statement by (username)====

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