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October 17

Environment, Natural Resources, Species of Trees & Shrubs To Remove Pollution(s)

Suggestion(s) For New Wikipedia Section And Subject Heading For Immediate Information Availability.

Environment, Natural Resources, Species of Trees & Shrubs To Remove All Forms of Pollution. Individual Tree Species Which Specifically Benefit All Natural Resources & Wildlife Species.

What specific trees and shrubs need to be planted in forests, shorelines and communities to benefit all marine species, wildlife species and communities for wildlife and marine habitat(s) shelter, food supply, nutients, remove water pollution and improve the air quality index in each province,region of Canada and each state, region of the USA; listed in alphabetical order.

--Patti CKDU (talk) 09:53, 17 October 2011 (UTC)--Patti CKDU (talk) 09:53, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

See Category:Trees and Category:Shrubs. Each and every one. And they're in alphabetical order. Dismas|^(talk) 10:26, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

Yes, that's going to be the most useful resource for you. Some points:

1. Any tree or shrub is better than no tree or shrub for the environmental benefits you mention.
2. A variety of vegetation is better than a monoculture.
3. The species that already grow in a particular environment are more likely to thrive than exotic species.
4. Trees or shrubs usually spread naturally if their growth isn't hindered; they don't necessarily have to be planted.

Itsmejudith (talk) 10:58, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

I would think it depends on the region in question. Salmonberry is native to the western United States and Canada but not the eastern parts, while Mountain laurel is native to the east not the west. Would either be beneficial outside their native areas? This is just two examples. The question is either too general or asking for too much--you don't really expect anyone to list all the beneficial trees and shrubs for every region of North America, do you? If you really want to get into it, there is regional and local info on natural vegetation regimes at sites like, and links from, [1] and [2]. It is a hugely complex topic though. Pfly (talk) 11:07, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

This is particularly important when dealing with exotic plants as a number of species imported into different countries with good intentions ended up being invasive species that do more harm than good. It's best to use local species.

Anyway, reforestation attempts near our town has been very successful using Acacia mangium, a native of Australia and the southern Malesian ecoregion. They grow very quickly, can halt soil erosion, fix nitrogen, and can establish secondary forests ideal for encouraging the regrowth of native tree species. They're widely used to 'reclaim' deforested areas and there's research on planting them in large numbers specifically for carbon sequestration as well as lumber.-- Obsidi♠n Soul 16:56, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

I've just watched an item on the BBC news about plans to install "green walls" at air pollution hotspots in London. Here's the link. It says of them: "It will be planted with a mixture of evergreen and perennial plants which have been carefully selected to trap PM10 and known to survive in a roadside environment." How they "carefully selected" them, I don't know. Alansplodge (talk) 13:07, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

Here's American resourches on how to attract birds and butterflies[3][4]. --Colapeninsula (talk) 15:22, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

Patti CKDU, see Category:Endemic flora of the United States.

—Wavelength (talk) 20:20, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

My Google search for trees shrubs remove pollutants reported 2,580,000 results.

—Wavelength (talk) 20:23, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

See Wikipedia:List of online reference desks/Science#Ecology (577).

—Wavelength (talk) 20:26, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

You can ask at the talk pages of Wikipedia:WikiProject Ecology and Wikipedia:WikiProject Environment, but I can not guarantee that an editor will be willing to take the time to answer.

—Wavelength (talk) 20:28, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

What are the coordinates of San Antonio de Choatalun, San Martin de Jilotepeque, Chimaltenango department, Guatemala.

What are the coordinates of San Antonio de Choatalun, San Martin de Jilotepeque, Chimaltenango department, Guatemala? I can find San Martin on the map but I'm having trouble finding San Antonio. It's near another larger part of the city (but well into the San Martin outskirts) that is happens to have a bright yellow church with a lot of live-in caretakers. This however is not San Antonio and I don't even know the name of it. Can anyone help? --137.110.32.134 (talk) 20:56, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

And just to clarify, I am not referring to the church in Tinamit Ajaw, which seems to come up on searches as possibly being the one I am thinking of. This one has two towers instead of one.--137.110.32.134 (talk) 21:04, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

Currency conversion

I am working on a speech for a 50th school reunion - can you tell me how much 125,000 pounds Australian in 1961 woould be worth today in Australian dollars?

Mant thanks

Ian Diamond — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ikdiamond (talk • contribs) 21:58, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

Using a simple retail price index calculator, about three million dollars. (The calculator is here.) However, RPI may not be a very effective calculation tool in this context - it's meaningful for calculating the price of groceries or a shirt, but breaks down for "large items" - and depending on exactly what you're talking about, a real value may be nearer five or six million. There's a good essay on interpreting different kinds of value-over-time calculators here, using British pounds as the example currency. Shimgray | talk | 23:30, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

And, of course, it may be worth less than that for other items. If you had invested that money in a warehouse of TVs, for example, they probably wouldn't be worth much today, being black-and-white, mono, low-def, small screen, analog TVs, likely without remotes. StuRat (talk) 19:24, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

... and, of course, if you had invested it in certain banks, it would be worth nothing! Dbfirs 19:35, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

And if you have invested in Microsoft stock, at its beginning... 88.8.75.87 (talk) 12:55, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

Astronomy

In all the discussions about the Big Bang that I've heard, I've never heard anyone suggest that there may have been other Big Bangs, not that it makes any difference. If there has been other Bangs, is time relative to each Bang? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Garettwice (talk • contribs) 23:43, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

You may find Big Crunch, Big Bounce, and cyclic model to be interesting reading. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 23:52, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

Also Multiverse. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.193.78.31 (talk) 15:19, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

I've heard multiple big bangs discussed within the same time and "universe" as ours. The conclusion was that, while there may be others, even an infinite number, as long as they are far away that they they don't interact with our space, the existence of other big bangs is both unknowable and irrelevant, more a matter for philosophers than scientists. StuRat (talk) 17:15, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

Mass makes time. Before the Big Bang there was no time.
Sleigh (talk) 07:38, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

That is unknown. Big bang cosmologists are careful to point out that we have no information about the matter, energy, or any information which may or may not have have preceded it. I personally think it will turn out to be something like a collision between multiple pre-primordial ultramassive black holes resulting in an ultranova. Dualus (talk) 14:12, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

October 18

Alternative to Google Fast Flip

I liked Google Fast Flip before they shut it down. Are there any other ways to browse interesting middle-brow current events items from the web? -- Mwalcoff (talk) 02:48, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

When 3 digit interstates is allow to renumber

After FHWA approves an interstate number, usually when and how many more years will a highway be allow to renumber. I know all non-chargeable interstates renumber highways immediately after FHWA approves it like I-710 and I-880, I-238. I thought non-chargeable vs. chargeable interstates doesn't determine the time frames. Can chargeable interstates renumber immediately after FHWA approves it? Because for Harbor Freeway the link to CA highways say it approves as interstate in November X-teen, 1978 it didn't label when the action actually made. The CA 11 is actually delete from Los Angeles in 1979, and one map on CA Highways show in February 1979 the harbor Freeway is the I-110, not CA 11. Does the wait matter on interstate types (C vs. NC) or it matters on metropolitan systems of great remubering or minor renumberings. Because in 1960s after government approves the interstate number it had to wait at least two years until the remubering process can start. Like the I-405, I-5, I-280, and I-780.--69.226.34.145 (talk) 03:44, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

The FHWA does not have anything to do with numbering Interstates. That is handled by AASHTO, which is an association of state agencies, and not part of the Federal government. The FHWA handles the funding of roads for the purposes of construction and maintenance, but does not directly manage the planning, designing, construction, or numbering of roads. The individual states, in conjunction with and approval from AASHTO, handle all of that stuff. The article Interstate 795 (North Carolina) actually has a nice breakdown on the relationship between the FWHA, AASHTO, and the state DOT in the construction and numbering of a new Interstate. The difference between chargeable and non-chargable interstates has NO bearing on the numbering at all, that's a funding issue; indeed some parts of the same interstate route may be both chargeable and non-chargable, but you can't tell by anything having to do with the road itself. As far as numbering goes, AASHTO generally allows states to choose their own numbers for intrastate routes (those within one state), so long as the route number follows the numbering scheme (last two digits match the parent route, first digit indicates whether the road connects at one end (odd) or both ends (even)). AASHTO does not require slavish following of the rules, when there are times when exceptions are needed. For example, in some states, the entire set of availible numbers can be used up; that happened in a few cases, and led to some of the oddities of the system, such as California's I-238 and Maryland's I-97. I don't believe there has ever been a particular time frame mandated by anything except "when the state gets the cash to change all the signs." This can take several years to accomplish. Where I live in North Carolina, I-440 was removed from the southern segment of the Cliff Benson Beltline, officially in 2002, but it took up to 7 years to update the signage in many places, they basically waited until the signs aged out and needed replacing with new signs anyways. --Jayron32 04:18, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

Didn't someone ask this question 2 or 3 weeks ago? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 11:40, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

I think they were asking about the 'cost' of renumbering specifically, Bugs... I'd search but I'm short on time. --Ouro (blah blah)

I can't find the puppy?

pic#4 moors murders-Meerkatakreem (talk) 05:23, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

It's in her arms. Dismas|^(talk) 05:32, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

Oh thanks for that Dismas. I spent some time lookin' for that puppy, didn't notice that it's just there. <red in the face>-Meerkatakreem (talk) 03:55, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

Bus bias

So I am doing some research into the longest urban bus route in Europe, which happens to run close to where I live. It is a circular route, and I can't come up with any logical reason why there are apparently more clockwise services than anticlockwise services. If it was just a "tidal flow" with a preference for one direction in the morning and the other in the evening, I could understand it, but the timetables clearly state that the weekday clockwise service (11C) runs every 3–9 minutes and the weekday anticlockwise service (11A) runs every 7–10 minutes. (I am going by the roadside timetables. There is an online timetable but I don't seem to be able to link to it because it has square brackets in the url.) Can anyone come up with a logical explanation? (Before any scientist sees this, I have already ruled out the Coriolis effect.)--Shantavira|^{feed me} 08:37, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

Unless you literally count the buses departing from and arriving at the head of the line, I don't think you can conclude beyond a reasonable doubt that there is an unbalanced flow given those departure time ranges. If buses head CW every 8 minutes on average (within stated range) and head widdershins every 7 minutes on average (within stated range), you'd have the opposite result from your assumed situation. It would be much more valuable to just ask a driver how many loops (s)he has to make in a day. I suspect the answer will always be the same (maybe 8, or 6 for one shift?) The Masked Booby (talk) 09:08, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

And now for a silly response - in England you drive on the left, so the CCW route would be ```ever so slightly shorter``` seeing as how its the inside lane on the loop. If your route is long enough, you would have to address this discrepancy with more buses heading CW. The Masked Booby (talk) 09:09, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

("CCW" = "anti-clockwise" on this side of the pond.) The difference in length is independent of the length of the route, and is approximately pi times the "average width of the road" (more accurately 2 pi times the average distance between opposing lanes). Dbfirs 07:45, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

The online timetable for the 11A and the 11C will let you count the number of trips each way throughout the day. You could probably estimate the approximate fleet size for both routes. The map tab will let you see differences in the clockwise and anti-clockwise routes. Incidentally, I did ride the entire route back in the 1980s; it wasn't interesting enough that I would do it again. Astronaut (talk) 09:18, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

I did try to do that but there is so much weird stuff going on in that timetable I gave up. Thanks for demonstrating how to post the link anyway.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 14:07, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

I've emailed the WMPTE media centre asking them the question. Will post here if I get a response. --Tagishsimon (talk) 10:02, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

Bear in mind that individual vehicles do not necessarily stay on the same route travelling in the same direction all day: some change directions or routes as necessary to match fluctuating demands caused by the rush hour, school-bus duties and so on, and run as "Not in Service" when they need to return to appropriate locations and overnight depots outside of the timetabled services. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.193.78.31 (talk) 17:32, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

Could this be as simple as it being faster to go in one direction (e.g. out of town) for the bus than it is to go in the other (e.g. into town). This could either be due to traffic flows making the route faster or even just average number of stops required due to passengers (given that buses don't stop at each stop unless there's someone there or tthey are a fair bit ahead of schedule). ny156uk (talk) 00:23, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

When I lived in Birmingham, I used to see buses going to Worlds End. I know now it's a suburb, but when I was 7 I thought that was where people went to die! I'm pleased to see this bus doesn't go there. --TammyMoet (talk) 07:40, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

In many places the morning rush-hour is more intense and shorter than the evening rush hour, because schools, businesses, etc all start at the same time, but schools get out earlier than most businesses, some people work later, etc. Therefore there may be a more frequent service in the "in-to-town" direction in the morning than on the "out-of-town" direction in the evening (because in the morning there are more people to move in a shorter period of time). Just a guess. --Colapeninsula (talk) 09:54, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

That's called tidal flow and I already discounted that. And this is a circular route which doesn't go into town. Maybe the drivers are just superstitious doing stuff widdershins.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 10:32, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

That wasn't what I said. What I said was that services in the morning may be more frequent than services in the evening regardless of direction. Hence in the morning the route to work might be every 3 minutes and the route from work every 6 (from 8am till 9am), while in the evening, the route from work might be every 7 and the route to work every 9 (from 3pm till 6pm). Even if the service isn't going into town, if it goes to an industrial estate or other big employer, and housing is not uniformly distributed along the route, you will get a similar effect at rush hours to that found on a route into a city. --Colapeninsula (talk) 12:59, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

International certifications

Please name some international certification like DTTF in any field (not only in tourism). Also please tell if there is any upper age limit in IATA DTTF --DinoXYZ (talk) 08:42, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

What country are you in? Ask whichever of these is nearest to you. Dualus (talk) 14:08, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

eating wild boar

When I walk around Town I often see menus outside Pubs and Restaurants saying "Wild Boar Sausages" or similar Dishes involving Wild Boar. My question is: As these signs are advertising Wild Boar, are these boars hunted in the wild and then made into Sausages, or are they formerly Wild and now Farmed Boar, and are they allowed to sell Wild Boar sausages if the Boar are not wild? Jeremy Wordsworth (talk) 12:46, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

The answer depends on the food labelling and advertising laws and regulations applicable to the place where you see these signs, but I would expect any food that is described as "wild" to really be so. Roger (talk) 12:57, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

I suspect that, in many countries, the description applies to the species, not to the method of husbandry. What size of wood determines whether the animals are farmed or wild? Even the farmed ones can be extremely "wild" if cornered! Dbfirs 13:17, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

(EC) I would take Wild boar to refer more to a type of animal (being some sort of Sus scrofa other then the domestic pig) then to it being a non captive animal. Our article mentions farming in the UK and other places. It's easy to find refs too, e.g. for the UK [5] [6]. As our article mentions, a wild boar isn't necessarily an adult male either. Although to be clear biologically it isn't a great term since as said it generally excludes the domestic pig, so is likely a paraphyletic grouping. Edit/EC with below: Note also per the article, a number of places including the UK only have any wild wild boar because of farming or other captive populations, and modern "wild boar" in some places are really just wild/feral domestic pigs. Nil Einne (talk)

Just an fyi, wild boar sausages are absolutely delicious--Jac16888 ^Talk 13:28, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

Wild?Being made into sausages,I should think it would be positively livid! Lemon martini (talk) 14:22, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

This site may have the information you're looking for. --TammyMoet (talk) 15:30, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

Are you sure that they don't actually say Boar's Head, referring to the brand Boar's Head ? This is a company that sells deli meats and sausages across the United States, and I see them on almost all deli windows. This would make significantly more sense than wild boar sausages. TheGrimme (talk) 16:57, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

Though hopefully he'll answer for himself, the OP's use of the word "Pub" suggests that, like me, he is a denizen of the UK (I can't be arsed with geolocation). As others have said, Wild boar (in the genetic sense) are farmed in the UK and their meat products are widely available. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.193.78.31 (talk) 17:24, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

That does seem logical, but how does one 'farm' a wild boar? Aren't 'wild' and 'farmed' mutually exclusive? TheGrimme (talk) 19:52, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

It's just a confusing name for a species - Sus domestica is the domestic pig, and Sus scrofa is the "wild boar". In some interpretations they're subspecies - S. scrofa and S. scrofa domestica' - but the idea's the same.

"Wild" is part of the name rather than a descriptive adjective, and so you can have a (farmed (wild boar)), and a (feral (domestic pig)), and this is why scientific names are helpful :-). Shimgray | talk | 20:17, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

English Wild Boar from The Real Boar Company says of its "wild boar"; "Our Boar are ethically farmed in 20 acres of mixed woodland and grasses at the edge of the Cotswolds." On the "Our Boar" page;"Our boar are of Polish and German origin, they live in two family groups (known as sounders) with one boar per sounder."

Northumberland National Park's website says: "It seems likely that the original British wild boar population disappeared in the 13th Century" There you have it. Alansplodge (talk) 08:24, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

October 19

Glass-lid cookware

This is something I have wondered about for a long while (as opposed to short). Why is it that glass-lid cookware is so popular (in the US at least)? It seems so popular in fact that I am unable to find a proper steel-lid Farberware pot at many Bed, Bath and Beyonds.

It doesn't make sense to me that people would prefer to use something so easily broken (drop it and it may break, have too much pressure in the pot, it can shatter dangerously); yet they do anyway.

So why are these things so popular? Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | ^{Say Shalom!} 21 Tishrei 5772 01:21, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

Functionally, you can see inside without lifting the lid (i.e. to see if water is boiling etc), but I suspect it is just that they look more impressive. AndyTheGrump (talk) 01:40, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

I was just forced to buy one (I need to cook my pasketti goddammit!) and so I will test this hypothesis, but I suspect that the steam would make it very hard to view the inside; though looking at this one it has no hole in it, so I know it will get steamy. xD Looks rather ugly to me, but beauty is in the eye of the beholder after all. Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | ^{Say Shalom!} 21 Tishrei 5772 01:44, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

Just a couple points about your original arguments... A) I've yet to see a pot of this type with a lid so tight that any considerable pressure builds up, much less enough to shatter the lid! B) You mention that you've looked for one manufacturer at one specific chain of stores. Have you thought of looking for other brands at other stores? It seems a bit like complaining that a Coke vending machine only sells Coke products. Dismas|^(talk) 02:54, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

PS Stainless steel lids are still around. I don't remember the brand of the pasketti pot I have at home but it has a stainless lid as well. Dismas|^(talk) 03:02, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

Apparently when people have locked them so that the pressure builds up. There is still the problem of falling lids as well. I mentioned that I wanted that specific manufacturer. I guess I should have said that, with the exception of so-called Steel All-Clad I could find no other steel lid pots. I checked two other BBBs, Target stores, Harris Teeter and Wal-Marts as well - same story. The only way to get something with with a good solid lid was to go for Le Creuset or Cast Iron. Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | ^{Say Shalom!} 21 Tishrei 5772 03:01, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

Don't know how I made that "PS" edit without an edit conflict... Anyway, I didn't take your original comment to mean that you only wanted that specific brand. The way I read it, you had only looked at that brand. Dismas|^(talk) 03:06, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

I'd never cooked with a glass lid pot before this year. Mine (and I assume most) has a small hole which allows the steam to escape and keeps it unfogged. I have to say I like it. I was always lifting the metal lid on my old pot to see if the water was boiling. Now I can tell at a glance. Mine is also pretty thick and I assume it is tempered, I imagine I'd have to try pretty hard to break it. --Daniel 03:13, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

Thick also means heavier, and even if it is tempered, after a while it is possible it'll break. I will refine my question: Why does it seem that there are no longer any inexpensive steel-lid pots and many brands have switched to only glass-lids including the lids that are available for sale on their own? Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | ^{Say Shalom!} 21 Tishrei 5772 03:19, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

You need to shop in appropriately cheap stores. try KMart, Target, Walmart, etc - you'll find lots of nice cheap tin-lid pots there. But I do have to say, I have never seen one of the tempered glass lids crack, chip, break, or shatter, and that is not for lack of trying. They are tough. the thing I dislike about them is that they are harder to clean thoroughly. --Ludwigs2 03:49, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

Well I did check at two of those. :p Hmmm, really? Alright, I have an idea, I will buy two lids and try dropping one (with some appropriate method to clean it up) and also striking one with something like a hammer (or a hammerstone for fun). I will see how much must be done to break it. If I find that it requires an unreasonable amount of effort, then maybe I will reconsider my view of these lids. Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | ^{Say Shalom!} 21 Tishrei 5772 04:57, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

Personally, I wouldn't put a lid on a pan I was cooking pasta in. It is easier to adjust the heat to get it boiling properly without boiling over if you can see it, and having no lid makes it easier to give a quick stir. Going by pure guesswork, I'd suspect that with no lid the convection currents will be stronger, and it will 'stir itself' more effectively. AndyTheGrump (talk) 03:12, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

Agreed Andy, but I was referring to the pre heating of the water. With the lid on folk wisdom and I assume real science says that it boils faster. --Daniel 03:15, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

Actually my science teacher back in high school said that keeping the lid on would actually make it take longer for the water to boil. The way it works is that the steam of the warm (but not yet boiling) water condenses into water on the lid and drops back in the water, thereby cooling it. I guess the difference is minimal in practice, but after that I have never kept the lid on a pan if I wanted to bring water to boil. --Saddhiyama (talk) 15:57, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

I think your science teacher forgot about Enthalpy of vaporization (also called latent heat of vaporisation in the UK). Dbfirs 19:11, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

M'yes, but you cannot buy a pot without a lid usually. Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | ^{Say Shalom!} 21 Tishrei 5772 03:19, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

You might find a milk saucepan sold with no lid - though perhaps that might be problematic for cooking pasta from the point of view of Kashrut - being a goy, I'm not really clued-up on these things (beyond noting that it isn't generally advisable for a good Jewish boy to fry bacon in his mother's milk saucepan, which an acquaintance of mine once claimed to have done - yes, he was something of a rebel...) AndyTheGrump (talk) 03:33, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

I don't really subscribe to that level of ensuring kashrut (separate cookware and such, especially given the fact that A, I don't care about microscopic bits of either and our dishwasher uses boiling hot water anyway.) Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | ^{Say Shalom!} 21 Tishrei 5772 04:57, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

THe only glass lid I have seen break was when after use on a frypan it was turned upside down and used as a bowl for sold water. It all cracked up. So they do not stand heat shock too well. The metal edge on them protects from the normal banging and knocking that could chip or smash. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 09:49, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

This is an odd thread. I've always lived in America and have never had glass-lidded pots and pans--except my cheapo rice cooker and various CorningWare. Perhaps glass lids have become more common at Walmart, Target, and other evil megacorps (excuse my momentary soapboxing). I just got a replacement large-ish skillet pan from a local non-chain store. There were plenty of options, and most pots and pans had metal lids. I found much the same selection at Williams-Sonoma, but those stores give me the creeps--the Starbucks of kitchenware! Still, it makes me wonder if perhaps glass lids are more common in cheaper lower-quality megacorp chains. Perhaps glass lids are simply cheaper to make? Pfly (talk) 09:59, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

I've used glass-lidded pans for several years without any problems - and given that in the last fortnight I have broken three wine glasses, smashed a soup bowl, and various other minor mishaps, this seems a good record! They#re a lot sturdier than they might appear; it's usually a tempered glass probably similar to pyrex. Locking them on as a pressure lid would be problematic, but the same could be said for most lids... Shimgray | talk | 18:14, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

I've used glass-lidded pans for at least 30 years without ever breaking one. They are surprisingly strong, but if you regularly drop lids onto hard floors then you should buy metal lids. No pressure builds up in any normal pan; only in pressure cookers with very strong lids. Dbfirs 19:21, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

Exactly. In 30 years of practically throwing them out the window I have never once seen a glass pan cover break, shatter, or chip. Evene when Feyd-Rautha has cursen me. They take well to an automatic dishwasher too, when necessary. μηδείς (talk) 02:44, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

Building buster in the Batman: Year One film

So I could not help but to notice in the course of this film that the corrupt GCPD used some sort of strange bomb on this derelict building in an attempt to either flush out or kill Batman. Does this device exist in real life? If so, what is it called? Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | ^{Say Shalom!} 21 Tishrei 5772 02:56, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

Yes, such a bomb exists. It was called Batman & Robin. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 10:33, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

Well that is designed to clear living rooms and movie theatres. I am thinking of an incendiary device delivered by helo meant to clear an entire building floor. Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | ^{Say Shalom!} 21 Tishrei 5772 16:26, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

See MOVE#1985 bombing for why this is a bad idea. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 17:21, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

Wasn't there a "neutron bomb" or some such, in development by the USA, that was supposed to kill personnel while leaving buildings relatively intact? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 17:40, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

A neutron bomb still has quite a bit of heat and blast. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 17:44, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

The one named Olivia Neutron-Bomb would no doubt agree with you. -- Jack of Oz ^{[your turn]} 19:44, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

Great. Now I've got the Xanadu soundtrack running through my head. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 20:05, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

I wish I had Xanadu running through my head. Instead it's "toreador, oh, don't spit on the floor, oh, use the cuspidor, oh, that is what it's for, oh.

Well, try substituting, "STP, you need some STP; one little can will keep you running free..." ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 10:54, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

I've not seen the film. Could it be something like a thermobaric weapon (fuel-air bomb) designed to produce a huge blast wave which will do very bad things to anybody inside the building, or an incendiary device (such as white phosphorus) which is often used in wartime to destroy bunkers and other fortified structures (sometimes causing air to be sucked out of rooms, as when used in World War Two, and with other very bad effects)? Sadly these articles aren't up to the usual high standards of Wikipedia articles on military history and arms. --Colapeninsula (talk) 13:10, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

I'm not really sure, it was basically a large tank of that looked like it was meant to function as a sort of bomb. It was an animated film though, so I'm not sure how much accuracy they were going for. Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | ^{Say Shalom!} 22 Tishrei 5772 23:51, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

Dragonfly identification

Which species is this dragonfly? manya (talk) 05:41, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

It looks a lot like a Ditch Jewel - Brachythemis contaminata. see here Richard Avery (talk) 07:07, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

Or perhaps a female Crimson Marsh Glider, examples seen here. Mikenorton (talk) 07:13, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

Yes, Ditch Jewel. Now that I know the name I can find many matching photos. Thank you Richard. (And Mikenorton, it is certainly not 'crimson'. But thank you for the asia-dragonfly link.) manya (talk) 09:43, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

Only the male is crimson, the female is a lot like the one you pictured, see here, notice particularly the dark marks at the leading edges of the wings and the extent of colouring of the wings near the body. Mikenorton (talk) 17:02, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

'thank you', Mmm, Nice. Richard Avery (talk) 13:56, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

October 20

US interstate highway auxiliary numbers

See Interstate 69 in Indiana and the intro to List of auxiliary Interstate Highways for the context of this question. Interstate 469 is a beltway around Fort Wayne, Indiana, but there's no Interstate 269 in the state: why is there a 469 but no 269? Given the existence of Interstate 465 around Indianapolis, and given the fact that the northeastern chunk has been built for (comparatively) many years while Neo-Luddites are still trying to hold up the construction of the southwestern chunk, it doesn't seem reasonable for AASHTO to presume that they would need a 269 designation and thus relegate the only 69 auxiliary to the 469 designation. Nyttend (talk) 00:53, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

Well, they're building an I-269 in Tennessee. I suppose Indiana figured there's no sense in duplicating Tennessee's number and possibly confusing someone. I-269 is a new highway, but maybe it was planned earlier. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 01:17, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

They don't have to number the auxiliary interstates in order. The only rules are 1) last two digits match the parent route, and 2) odd first digit = connected to parent at only one end, even first digit = connected to parent at both ends. AASHTO will usually ascede to whatever the state chooses for a number, so long as it fits the rules. In the specific case of Indiana, they chose 469 instead of 269 probably because Indiana State Road 269 already exists. But even if it didn't, there's nothing compelling them to use 269 first. As far as avoiding confusing with neighboring states; that's doubtful. There are two I-291's within a few miles of each other, see Interstate 291 (Massachusetts) and Interstate 291 (Connecticut). There are many examples of states having Interstate auxiliary routes numbered out of order; in South Carolina there is a I-126 and an I-526, but no I-326. Georgia has an I-516, but no I-116 or I-316. I'm tired of looking, but you can find dozens like this. --Jayron32 01:59, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

Hmm, I never before noticed that the auxiliary routes would ever go out of order. I suppose I should remember 269, since (judging by its description) I drove on it last month. Nyttend (talk) 05:14, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

It depends on what the planners want to do and why. Minneapolis-St.Paul is surrounded by a continuous beltway whose southern portion is labeled I-494 and whose northern portion is labeled I-694. The dividing points are where I-94 crosses it. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 10:51, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

US local government severance pay

The County Executive of Wayne County, Michigan, Robert Ficano, is under investigation by the FBI for offering absurdly high compensation to his employees. For example, he just gave a $200,000 severance payment to somebody who quit. While no severance is customary when somebody quits, I'm not sure it's illegal to give a whopping severance package (to a woman I assume to be his mistress, in this case). So, what laws govern this type of thing ? StuRat (talk) 02:25, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

The problem is worse in that she wasn't really severed. She moved from one county-related job to another county-related job (Development Board to Airport Authority) with similar pay rates. It is not yet clear closely how Ficano was involved in the payment approval except for poor justifications afterwards. 75.41.110.200 (talk) 14:38, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

10/19 coincidence?

Is there any connection between the proportions of the U.S. flag (10:19) and the fact that the British surrendered at Yorktown on October 19, 1781 (10/19)? I suspect it is just coincidence. — Michael J 04:23, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

It's a coincidence. I googled [us flag proportions] and found this article,[7] which explains the practical reasons how the flag came to be 10 to 19. It also points out that that's merely a custom or a convention that has evolved, not prescribed by law. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 04:54, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

Does anyone know if months were written in numerals in the 18th century? If so, when did the British and American usage diverge? 19th October is 19/10 over here. Alansplodge (talk) 10:24, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

Calendar date gives some clues about that. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 10:47, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

If the proportions were based on the calendar date, the 10/19 or 19/10 format divergence would probably make no difference, as the length of national flags is by rule greater than, or, at least, equal to, their width. The only national flag that is wider than it's long is the flag of Nepal (proportion 5:4), but it has a non-quadrilateral shape. --Theurgist (talk) 11:59, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

What address should I use if I were to mail or write to someone in the western part of the Bronx?

I have an aunt who’s planning to move to Riverdale in the Bronx. She currently lives in Mott Haven in the Bronx. I know that the western part of the Bronx was part of NYC since 1874. So, if I were to send her a card (which I will do so) or any other thing by mail when she moves to Riverdale some time in the future, would I write “Bronx, NY;” “New York, NY;” “Riverdale, Bronx;” or “Riverdale, NY” in the address to her when she moves, or would any of them be equally acceptable to write in the address?

I know that one would only write New York, NY in the address when sending a mail to someone in Manhattan. I know one would write only Brooklyn, NY in the address if one were to mail something to someone in Brooklyn. I know that one would use one of Queens’ neighborhoods, the ones that used to be towns, in an address if one were to send some mail or write to someone in Queens. Willminator (talk) 16:43, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

I have lived all over the Bronx, including Riverdale. You just use Bronx and the Zip Code. μηδείς (talk) 16:45, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

My research says Medeis is correct. Note that the street address is always "Bronx", although the real-estate area may be Riverdale or North Riverdale. Bielle (talk) 17:59, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the helpful information, but historically speaking, why wouldn’t “New York, NY” be written in the address for Riverdale and other neighborhoods in the western part of the Bronx? Willminator (talk) 20:07, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

"New York, NY" would refer specifically to Manhattan (and a smidgen of mainland bordering the Bronx), aka "New York County". ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 22:56, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

That smidgen includes part of the Riverdale neighborhood. Certain people in that area insist they be listed in the phone book as Manhattan, rather than the Bronx, which is part of what motivates this question, I presume. If you want to make her happy address it to Riverdale. It will eventually get there. μηδείς (talk) 23:11, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

If you get the zip code right, especially a 9-digit zip, then the "city" name should be somewhat less important, as long as it's not ridiculous. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 01:42, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

The question answers itself: "historically". Why not try sending some mail to Prussia?

The fact is, you can just put her name and zip, and, if the post office has her name uniquely listed, she will eventually get the mail. You can also put Riverdale instead of Bronx with the zip if you want and she will get it. The USPS is not so perverse as not to want to delver the mail if you provide enough information for her to get it. But Bronx, 104XX is the best way to address it unless you want to delay her mail, make others do extra work. μηδείς (talk) 21:54, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

If you look up the ZIP code on the USPS website, it will give you the "proper" city of address. According to the site, "BRONX, NY" is the "actual" city, while "RIVERDALE, NY" is "not correct." -- Mwalcoff (talk) 22:37, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

Again, thanks for your answers. I will mail my aunt by using “Bronx NY” when she moves to Riverdale. That answered that part of my question, but as you might have seen, I asked being aware of the history behind the western section of the Bronx and how the history of the other boroughs have affected the way the addresses are written in those places. With all that in mind I asked about which address option should I use when I start mailing stuff to my aunt. After receiving the answer to my original question, I wondered why the western section of the Bronx gets to use the "Bronx, NY" address only. So, on my follow up question, I asked about why historically the western part of the Bronx, which includes Riverdale where my aunt is going to move, does not get the “New York, NY” address that only Manhattan gets since that part of the Bronx, as can be seen in this 1895 map, was part of the original city that existed before 1898. As it is in the histories of the other boroughs or parts of them, shouldn’t that history be reflected in the western part of the Bronx where my aunt is moving to? Willminator (talk) 01:45, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

I'm a little surprised that nobody has directed the OP to the web site for the United States Postal Service since they would be the authority on such things... Dismas|^(talk) 01:59, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

Country with greatest difference between most populous settlement and second most populous

Talking with respect to the relative difference (i.e. the ratio between them). The article List_of_largest_cities_and_second_largest_cities_by_country is the best resource I can find, but can't be used to answer the question directly. From this Barbados has the greatest ratio I can see from random checking (Bridgetown (94,197) over Speightstown (2,364) is a ratio of 39.8). Is there anywhere with higher? What about only for nations with a population of over one million (Mongolia has a ratio of 11.1 so is a possible contender for this)? --90.215.0.177 (talk) 17:26, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

This is known as a primate city but that article is rather unhelpful with regards to your question. If you want truly large cities, Mexico City's agglomeration is 20m, followed by Ecatepec de Morelos at 1.6m, or 12.5 times. Mexico City proper is only 8.8m, though. Grandiose (me, talk, contribs) 17:48, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

Tokyo appears to be about 10 times larger than the next largest city in Japan. I was surprised to find that Tokyo is not listed at List of cities in Japan. Comet Tuttle (talk) 18:09, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

The explanation given is that "Tokyo is not included on this list, as the city of Tokyo ceased to exist on July 1, 1943. Tokyo now exists as a special "metropolis" prefecture (都 to), with 23 "special" wards (with the same status of city) making up the former boundaries of the former city in the eastern half of the prefecture." Grandiose (me, talk, contribs) 18:11, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

To do this right, you need to compare either populations within city limits (excluding suburbs) or metropolitan area (agglomeration) populations. It doesn't work to compare the metropolitan population of Mexico City with the city-limit population of the next largest city, for example. According to our List of Japanese cities by population, Tokyo is nowhere near 10 times the size of the next largest city. If we compare Greater Tokyo with Greater Osaka, we find that the former has only about twice the population of the latter. In Mexico, Mexico City as a municipality is about 5 times larger than the next largest municipality, Ecatepec de Morelos, but Ecatepec is essentially a suburb of Mexico City. In terms of metropolitan populations, Mexico City's is about 5 times larger than Mexico's next largest metropolis, Guadalajara. Mongolia's ratio is impressive, but I think you will find the highest ratios—for countries with more than one million people that are not city-states—in Africa. In Liberia, for example, the capital, Monrovia, is nearly 18 times larger than the next-largest city, according to this source. Marco polo (talk) 20:33, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

Would the Republic of Ireland have the biggest difference in Europe, with List of towns in the Republic of Ireland by population giving Dublin as 1,045,769 followed by Cork at 190,384? -- Q Chris (talk) 20:51, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

That's about 5 to 1, the UK seems to have a larger difference at about 7 to 1 from London to Birmingham, according to List of largest United Kingdom settlements by population. From randomly sampling about a dozen articles, it looks like the average ratio in Europe is somewhere around 2 to 1. -- Ferkelparade π 21:05, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

A better comparison for the UK would be from this list, which gives a ratio of London 3.6 : 1 West Midlands urban area (= Birmingham). Ghmyrtle (talk) 10:32, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

Iceland manages 6.9 to 1 (Reykjavík to Akureyri) rising to 11.5 to 1 if you include the Reykjavík metropolitan area. Hut 8.5 21:43, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

Montevideo, Uruguay is about 13 the size of the country's second-largest city. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 22:35, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

(edit conflict) There are several large countries with figures comparable to Mongolia. Lebanon is 9.9 to 1 and Peru is 10.1-1. Suriname, with a population of half a million, is 15.7-1. Hut 8.5 22:35, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

That just beats Djibouti (List of cities in Djibouti) which is 15.6:1. --Colapeninsula (talk) 08:47, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

Malta also manages a larger (European) disparity -- about 13.2 for Valletta and Mosta. Thanks for the answers everyone. Liberia certainly seems like one of the most 'top-heavy', given its population. --90.215.0.177 (talk) 14:18, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

Actually, ignore that first bit. Valletta only works if you count the surrounding urban area, and Mosta isn't the second largest settlement anyway --90.215.0.177 (talk) 14:25, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

If you count the ratio, then some of the microstates with only a single town might be on the top. – b_jonas 18:05, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

Media markets vs. "viewing areas"

When I look at this map of Kansas media markets I see that they are quite different from television stations' viewing areas. For example, Phillips, Smith, Jewell, Republic, Cloud, Clay, Geary, Morris, and Chautauqua counties are in the viewing areas of almost all Wichita television stations, and they report on news and weather in those counties as well. Republic, Ottawa, and Dickinson I also know are covered by WIBW-TV out of Topeka, and KSNW and KWCH out of Wichita also include some border counties of southwestern Nebraska, Yuma, Cheyenne, and Kit Carson counties in Colorado, and (also KAKE in this instance) several border counties of northern and northwestern Oklahoma. I would have thought media markets determined viewing area of TV stations, but apparently this is not the case. What determines the viewing areas of TV stations in the United States? Ks0stm ^{(T•C•G•E)} 22:37, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

Determining what a television station's viewing area can be problematic, as there are various definitions which do not agree. Nielsen Media Research, which is the predominant ratings service in the U.S., has established 210 areas that it calls Designated Market Areas. For the most part, Nielsen assigns each county to one specific market, even if stations from two cities can be received in that county. (Some large counties in western states are split between markets, but even they have no overlap, only an artificial border.) Another ratings service, Arbitron used a similar system, but its markets were not always the same as Nielsen's, especially in overlap areas. The FCC has its own Television Market Areas which usually follow county lines but not always, and sometimes differ from the ratings services. None of these correspond to the actual coverage area of a station's transmitter, which is determined by a transmitter's electronics, location, power, surrounding terrain and other factors. The transmitter coverage area is basically the area where people can receive the station (not counting cable), while the ratings market areas are where people are counted as viewing. (There is a bit more in the article Media market.) — Michael J 07:33, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

What I think your map reflects is not just the viewing area of television stations from the cities indicated, but viewing area plus a calculation which metropolitan area residents of a given county are most likely to drive to for shopping. For example, even though residents of Smith County can receive TV stations from Wichita, they are more likely to drive to a closer city in Nebraska to purchase a car. Therefore, commercials on Nebraska stations advertising Nebraska merchants may be more effective for residents of Smith County. Marco polo (talk) 15:24, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

That dead Libyan guy

How is his name supposed to be spelled? I've seen at least five different spellings, and there doesn't seem to be one that's more common. --75.33.218.167 (talk) 23:23, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

It's discussed in his article. See Muammar Gaddafi # Transliteration of his Arabic name. -- Jack of Oz ^{[your turn]} 23:32, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

(EC) This has been asked a couple of times on the Language desk. See our article Muammar Gaddafi. It can also be written 'Kaddafi', 'Khaddafi', and 'Qaddafi'. In standard Arabic, it is written 'Qaddafi', but due to Libyan Arabic pronunciation of the letter qaf, we also have the other three variants I have just mentioned. KägeTorä - (影虎) (TALK) 23:34, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

(EC)Unfortunately, there is no generally agreed, standard method of transliterating Arabic letters into Roman ones, nor any generally agreed, standard method of transcribing into the Roman alphabet all the sounds involved, some of which do not exist in English and whose actual pronunciations anyway vary between the different national dialects of Arabic and the pan-national "standard Arabic". Many publications and organisations have chosen consistent "house styles" for their own use, but there is no "correct" answer. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.197.66.33 (talk) 23:44, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

(edit conflict)Yep, so his name can be spelled any number of ways so long as they communicate about the right sound. Works the same with many semitic languages given that some of the sounds don't exist in English (though they do in German oddly enough). Also, good news everyone! BLP doesn't apply to him anymore! :D Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | ^{Say Shalom!} 22 Tishrei 5772 23:48, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

By, not existing in English but in German, I assume you mean the sound represented by 'ch' in German? Well, I have news for you. We even have both the 'ch' in 'Bach' and the 'ch' in 'ich'. KägeTorä - (影虎) (TALK) 02:04, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

Pardon, not existing in English that isn't Welshified. :p A lot of Anglophones have problems with it sadly. :( Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | ^{Say Shalom!} 23 Tishrei 5772 05:43, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

Perhaps ß is what he refers to? Ks0stm ^{(T•C•G•E)} 05:31, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

We have that, it's usually put as this letter: s. Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | ^{Say Shalom!} 23 Tishrei 5772 05:43, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

...Though the eszett usually is transliterated as ss, rather than just s, for clarity about what it represents. (It's the difference between as and ass.) TenOfAllTrades(talk) 14:37, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

M'yes, that is indeed so. However we don't have the -ch sound which is akin to the Hebrew כ or -ig which is the same sound as ח. Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | ^{Say Shalom!} 24 Tishrei 5772 18:20, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

I've never really understood which Economist articles are paywalled, but if you can get this then it might help explain the above points. Grandiose (me, talk, contribs) 14:38, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

The correct spelling is "مُعَمَّر القَذَّافِي"; anything else is a transliteration. --Carnildo (talk) 22:09, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

Is this problem common in transliterating Arabic names? Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | ^{Say Shalom!} 24 Tishrei 5772 18:20, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

October 21

Figuring out familial social status

So, this is a question that will probably result in a lot of jibes, but I hope that there will maybe be a proper answer somewhere. I am wondering what err... social group, I guess (I don't want to say class), my family falls under in the United States (middle class, upper middle class, upper class). If my dad earns 300.000 USD with a possible bonus of up to 60.000, my mum earns 220.000 with a possible bonus of 60.000 (before taxes), we have an apartment worth 3,5 million USD and a house worth 1,2 millon plus hmmm... idr, maybe 6 million USD in stocks, what category do we fall under? What percentile as well? This is leaving out personal debt which I know nothing of I'm afraid. Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | ^{Say Shalom!} 23 Tishrei 5772 01:08, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

Financially, you are squarely in the upper class, probably in the top 1% or so of all incomes. Socially, it is, well, complicated. There are parallel social classes which exist in the same financial brackets; for example the Nouveau riche, the Hollywood A-list, and Old money would likely all run in different social circles... --Jayron32 01:18, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

Hmmm, good question. Well let's see. The original basis of the wealth comes from my great grandfather (on my mother's side) who owned a factory in first Austria, then France, and then the United States. My dad is from a decidedly poor family (happens when you've got six brothers and sisters), whereas my mother was of course a bit more priveleged and her mother (Yahweh rest her soul) was a very financially wise woman with regard to the stock market. You of course have their own income which is usually used to pay for daily expenses, maintenance, mortgages and education. Which does that make us? Old money or nouveau rich (thank God it's not Hollywood A-List :p)? Not that I would ever associate with such people (of either group), eck; I guess it would be more how we are viewed by others. Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | ^{Say Shalom!} 23 Tishrei 5772 01:31, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

While your family is clearly in the top percentile in the United States, it falls well short of the top 0.1%, according to Affluence in the United States. This might put your family outside the most exclusive social circles. I don't think that "old money" or "nouveau riche" are clearly defined categories, nor do those labels encompass all affluent people. However, from what you say, your family is clearly not nouveau. On the other hand, acceptance as "old money" is all about family name and recognition by those who consider themselves "old money". That is to say, it is really about social relationships. I think, if one has to ask, one is not "old money". Marco polo (talk) 01:48, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

So we are not in that group of 500 or so that controls almost half the wealth? That is fortunate. Well our family name (which I am never sharing :p) is decidedly not very well known (though the name comes only from descendants of my grandfather (on my dad's side). We don't associate with any wealthy people (except my little sister who associates with what I guess you call a "Gossip Girl" crowd), and as you say I don't quite know myself. :p Errr... so does that make us anything? Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | ^{Say Shalom!} 23 Tishrei 5772 01:56, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

Lucky! Bielle (talk) 01:58, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

What's lucky? Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | ^{Say Shalom!} 23 Tishrei 5772 19:58, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

From [8] your families household income may or may not be inside the top 0.5% depending on the bonuses and how much the figures have changed since 2006. Edit: From the 2008 [9] figures it's looking even more likely your household is in the 0.5% particularly as it sounds like the figures are excluding any additional income like interest, dividends and realised capital gains. Nil Einne (talk) 13:19, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

Does being in the top 0,5% mean anything though? I think that outside of the upper crust fancy people you are just regarded as rich (I'm fairly certain I would not be welcome at the Occupy Wall Street thing... I think, I'm still not sure what they're about). Is there a term for people in the percentile that do not wish to associate with other wealthy people? Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | ^{Say Shalom!} 23 Tishrei 5772 19:58, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

See also http://www.globalrichlist.com/.

—Wavelength (talk) 02:07, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

"You're in the TOP 0.001% richest people in the world!" - If it were all combined for one person. I like their idea of incorporating donation. Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | ^{Say Shalom!} 23 Tishrei 5772 02:47, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

Does the USA really equate money to social class quite so directly? In Australia we have CUBS. It stands for "Cashed up bogans". Plenty of money, but definitely no class. HiLo48 (talk) 21:19, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

In the US, yes. It is mostly about either money or having come from a wealthy family last I checked. Of course, we all know that social class has nothing to do with actual class. A lot of my sister's friends have about as much class as a drug dealer (I'm fairly certain some are), whereas some of the regular people I know have as much class as a proper king or queen; such is the effect of money. In fact it appears to be an inverse relationship (the richer you are, the less class you have; most of the time). What the heck is a Bogan? My Lord, have you switched to Kiwispeak? No, there is still some English in there so can't be Kiwi. :p - note I wrote this bit before I noticed that you wikilinked, but I'm still leaving it in. Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | ^{Say Shalom!} 23 Tishrei 5772 21:41, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

From the Top 2% to the the Top 1%

Related q: So I remember a while back, I believe at the start of the current downturn, people were talking about the Top 2% (wealthwise), but I do not remember the context. Now I see people talking about the Top 1% all of a sudden. Why this change? It seems like it has only come about with the Occupy Wall Street protests. Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | ^{Say Shalom!} 23 Tishrei 5772 19:58, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

I don't recall such distinctions changing. Do you have a reference for either or, better, both? Bielle (talk) 20:16, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

Hmmm, might be a bit tough, but I'll try. I think any 2% stuff would be older though. I am mostly going by what I see on protest signs (always a good source!), but I see it on proper news sites as well. Here is one for 1% from Washington Post [10] and this page has a few links [11]. As for 2%, let's see. This from the Huffington Post (though there is a mention of the 1%) [12]; Wall Street Journal [13]; and something about both [14]. Looks like the 2% stuff related to W's tax cuts, and is still around, but idk about the 1% stuff as I rarely read about US news these days. Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | ^{Say Shalom!} 23 Tishrei 5772 21:10, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

Another way to look at social class is through one's relation to the means of production and this relation's effect on social power. Specific income levels don't really effect this. The owner of an oil field might lose millions in a year, but he or she will still be in higher social class in comparison to the guy who drives a semitrailer and makes 60k. You don't mention how your parents make their money, but your great grandfather owning factories would place him squarely in the bourgeois class as he had direct control of the means of production. These days (late capitalism, as some might call it), some people (I imagine this includes your parents) make relatively large amounts of money in the form of wages (selling the only thing they control, their labor), rather than from profits produced by the labor of other people. Technically these people are still laborers and in perhaps anachronistic terms, part of the proletariat. This laborer/owner relationship is really independent of the amount of money in question, just look at any sports strike, athletes making millions of dollars a year still come in to conflict with the team owners. Comedian Chris Rock once summed this up as the distinction between "rich" and "wealthy," Shaq is rich, but the guy who cuts Shaq a multimillion dollar check is wealthy, saying "Here you go Shaq. Don't spend it all in once place". These days I would say that the bourgeois are no longer the real ruling class, having ceded some of their power to a new class of technocrats who control the financial system. Again these technocrats might make less money per year than a professional athlete, but their social power is vastly greater.

Additionally, the type of labor has an influence on ones position within the labor class. These aren't really positions of differential power, rather this has a greater impact on social interactions. The aforementioned truck driver might make more than an accountant at the same company, but they are still separated by their type of laborer and are less likely to associate with each other. I think this is covered more completely in Social class. A successful industrial sales person might make more than a lawyer, but again they are separated by their labor type. I think it might have been Marx who said "the abhorrence of job is inverse to its pay" or something like that. --Daniel 00:25, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

Interesting, you know I never thought of it that way; a person, regardless of wealth, who sells their labour rather than benefiting from the labour of others is still a member of the proletariat (Good argument to use if a socialist uprising starts :p). Both of my parents are attorneys who are given jobs to do by their bosses and have their labour contracted out. The bosses reap the benefits of their labour. That was a very clear and coherent reply btw (don't see many of those oftentimes). Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | ^{Say Shalom!} 24 Tishrei 5772 01:14, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

While your family does technically belong in the proletariat class and your parents are subject to the same sort of alienation from their labor as the guy who cleans their toilets, the issue to keep in mind here is privilege. People whose parents make that kind of money have access to just about every opportunity available and even if they screw up they get multiple chances. If I was making up classes, I might define them by access to opportunity. There is a fantasy in this country that everyone has a shot at success. Despite the presence of scholarships and various forms of social welfare this sort of equality just doesn't exist in practice. Poor people have poor children and rich people have rich children. Sure they're are slides in both directions and people love Cinderella stories of the kid in the ghetto working hard and making it big, but in reality these are rare exceptions rather than the rule. What it boils down to is a class that gets to do what they want (within certain bonds) and a class that struggles to put food on the table. --Daniel 02:48, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

That being, of course, an entirely fictional narrative, with means-tested children being eligible (except perhaps in the more savage parts of Calgary and Brisbane? I don't know...) for medicaid, food stamps and section 8 housing, and free education up to age 18 and pell grants and other subsidies for higher education, while the middle class must either go into debt or have their parents pay hundreds of thousands for such things out of pocket. I know both AIDS orphans and GED holders with debt-free advanced degrees and radio internships with Howard Stern on one hand and the "privileged" children of nuclear engineers with college loans greater in size than their mortgages on the other. That the poor "suffer" in the west is basically a fantasy based on distance. Class is an affect, and Eminem is its royalty, not Alex P. Keaton. Even the poorest and least educated have K-12, cable, internet, widescreen, A/C, Air Jordans and chinese takeout--none of which any emperor of Rome had. μηδείς (talk) 04:10, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

You might want to take a look at Economic mobility. The US has one of the worst if not the worst social mobility of the industrialized world. The fact is people born into poor families have a tiny chance of becoming rich and a pretty poor chance of becoming middle class (Howard Stern internships not withstanding). Whether this is because they are a bunch of lazy do nothings who would rather worship Eminem than get a job or because of inequities inherent in our system, I don't know. The poor do have a fairly high standard of living from a historic perspective, but that does nothing to mitigate the fact that their standard of living is vastly different than the upper class. If you don't think the poor suffer, you should spend a week at my apartment complex where the half staved children of meth addicts knock on my door looking for food. --Daniel 05:16, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

Book of the year in Britain for re-focusing the debate on class: Owen Jones's Chavs: The Demonization of the Working Class. He -- although not all of his interviewees -- draws the line between working class and middle class where the latter have substantial control over the conditions of their work. So, as a point of comparison to the very different social construction of the USA, if your family lived in Britain and your parents did similar jobs for similar salaries, they would be considered middle class, or upper middle class. They still work for a living: they don't spend their time administering their trust funds, running charities, and developing their tennis skills. If they lost their jobs, and didn't quickly find others, then presumably your standard of living would suffer. Who was it who said that the truly wealthy live off the interest of the interest of their money? But others would say that you are part of the ruling class in that you have access to power, directly and indirectly. Social class does not correlate precisely to money.

Use of DNA to Prove Someone is Dead

My father (in his 70s) today said that the person that was killed today and purported to be Muammar Gaddafi may not be him, as, according to my father, lots of dictators have doubles who gladly let themselves get killed for their cause. I personally do not believe this, and the videos/pictures I have seen on TV certainly look like him. I am in no doubt that it was him. However, I would like to know 1) if there have been any instances in recorded history when a double was killed instead of the real person; and 2) if DNA evidence will be used to prove it was in fact Gaddafi. I know about the theory that the body of Adolf Hitler was someone else, and that Saddam Hussein was reported to have lots of people working for him who looked like him. Cheers KägeTorä - (影虎) (TALK) 01:59, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

President Dave? --Jayron32 03:13, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

Political decoy cites the unfortunate Gustav Weler, who looked very much like Hitler and was shot by the Nazis themselves to confuse the advancing Allies. I rather doubt he was glad about it. Clarityfiend (talk) 03:49, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

They probably will use DNA if they get the chance to. It's not a hard test, especially not with someone like Gaddafi who must have DNA'd up his palace considerably, and had a bunch of known family members. They used DNA in confirming Bin Laden was dead[15]. --Mr.98 (talk) 11:56, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

Things to do in New Orleans

I've seen this work for others before, so here's my shot at it...

I'll be traveling to New Orleans, LA, in January. I'll be staying at the Hampton Inn near the Ernest N. Morial Convention Center and will not have a car available to me. So, what is there to do within walking distance or, if the public transportation is good in NOLA (is it?), a bit further? I'm not really interested in sports. I do have interests in local culture, science, nature, and a little history. Thanks, Dismas|^(talk) 02:26, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

Getting shitfaced, and exploring the French quarter seem like the smartest ideas for one in NOLA. Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | ^{Say Shalom!} 23 Tishrei 5772 02:42, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

Popular? Yes. Smartest? Not according to me. Dismas|^(talk) 02:46, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

Well, not smartest in terms of wise, healthy or worthwhile really (the drinking at least). Then again, I don't drink. I would ask at the hotel itself for what cultural pursuits are nearby or use Wikitravel which often has good info. Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | ^{Say Shalom!} 23 Tishrei 5772 02:51, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

A few things I like to do that are reasonably close to where you'll be swtaying:

• French Quarter. Not just for drinking, lots of music, shops, etc. Café du Monde for coffee and beignets, a muffaleta from Central Grocery, dinner at Franks on Decatur, Jazz Preservation Hall, etc.
• Ogden Museum of Southern Art on Lee Circle, plus other galleries in Warehouse District
• A street car ride to various parts of the city, Garden District, out Magazine, lunch at the Camelia Grill

And depending on when you get there in Jan, Mardi Gras will usually be starting about that time, so some parades may be going, but dress warm. It may only be 35 or 40, but it is a damp cold down here that is different fromn the dryer cold of the north, lol. Heiro 03:00, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

Ah, well I didn't realise that was close the French Quarter, but now I can give him the actual district article for the French Quarter. [16] Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | ^{Say Shalom!} 23 Tishrei 5772 03:05, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

Also these Category:French Quarter and Audubon Aquarium of the Americas are also all close. Prolly like a 5 to 15 block walk for alot of stuff. Heiro 03:07, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

Do keep your wits about you. In my foolish youth, I did the standard drink-yourself-shitfaced-in-the-French-Quarter thing and ended up being abducted, driven to a housing project in a very scary part of the city, robbed at knifepoint once in the car in which I was abducted, and then again on my way out of the housing project after I escaped from the car, having begged for mercy, promised not to press charges, and pointed out that my assailants were much likelier to live happy lives if they didn't kill me. After the second robbery (all they got was my watch), I broke a bottle for use as a weapon and ran to a freeway viaduct, where I walked in the breakdown lane toward the distant skyscrapers until the police picked me up and told me that I was lucky to be alive, since New Orleans then had the highest murder rate in the United States. I think it is no longer the highest, but it is still near the top. So, I do not recommend getting drunk, or even walking the streets alone at night in New Orleans. Marco polo (talk) 15:09, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

Good advice lol. Sounds like you got a little too drunk, or turned down the wrong dark section of the quarter. I've always managed to avoid that in the 20 yrs I've been going there, but a few times I did get a little nervous about where I had wandered to. But like the bar district in any large city, you should keep your wits about you when consuming mass quantities. Heiro 15:47, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

The National World War II Museum is nearby (about 0.4 miles) at 945 Magazine Street. We enjoyed our visit there. Jackson Square is worth seeing, with the former colonial seat of the government, The Cabildo, which is now a museum, adjacent to the St. Louis Cathedral. Ride the streetcars around town to the zoo. (Watch Cat People (1982 film) before you visit the zoo). Edison (talk) 16:58, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

I've been to several conventions at the Morial, and found that there is so much to do in the French Quarter that I never felt a need to go anywhere else -- music, food, shops, art galleries; you don't need to get shitfaced to have a good time. Looie496 (talk) 17:12, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

Video of Ariane 5 Flight 501

There's a few videos on Youtube. This one looks like a fairly comprehensive, but looks like it was taken from a TV broadcast. There's also a better angle from another camera, which can be seen at this site. They claim the video source is from the ESA, but I can't find it there (don't want to remember their spectacular failures, I guess). The ESA website does have several still images of the launch, including one of the explosion, but I can't find any video. Where would I go about finding the original videos of the launch? Buddy431 (talk) 04:58, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

Pick my next job please

Hi there, any ideas about jobs I should look for? I've got a job in a university library, but not really enough hours and anyway I'm bored. Been doing this for a few years now. I'm studying for a part-time (distance learning) bachelors degree, but still nowhere near graduating. And I love my course, but it won't get me a job unless I become a teacher. So I'd move anywhere and try most things that don't involve a pay cut (now I make GBP £750 a month which isn't much!), but I'd like a job with prospects beyond just admin or store clerking. A busy library is a bit cleaner and quieter than a supermarket, but they actually have a lot in common (I've worked both). Justlooking24 (talk) 08:48, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

I suggest you arrange a meeting at your local Job Centre, they will be able to help you work out what jobs would suit you. There is no way we can help without a lot more information that you've provided (you haven't even told us what qualifications you have). --Tango (talk) 19:57, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

If you want a job with prospects and decent pay and you are not a uniquely talented athlete or performer, you have two main options: 1) go into sales; 2) acquire a skill that is in demand and that commands a good pay rate. To succeed in sales, you need to be an extrovert with excellent "people skills", and you have to be very motivated, energetic, and organized. Even so, you are very vulnerable in sales to swings in the economy. Probably the less risky option is to acquire a skill that pays. When choosing a skill, think about your natural aptitudes. Are you "handy"? If so, consider a trade such as carpentry, plumbing, or electrical work. Are you good with numbers? If so, consider going into accounting. Are you a tech whiz? Then you might want to go into technical support or software development. The best-paid skills tend to require a university-level training in a relevant field, such as finance, electrical engineering, or law. It sounds as if you have chosen to pursue a field that does not lead directly to a lucrative job. If you want a really lucrative job, you may need to shift your field of study. Otherwise, choose a skill that doesn't require a special university degree. While you acquire that skill, you may need to get by with a job like your current one. Marco polo (talk) 20:07, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

Get your university or college's careers service working for you. They have to offer something, to distance learning students too. Itsmejudith (talk) 07:57, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

Things happening in London this weekend

Hello all - me and a friend are going to London on Saturday for LITS, staying over into Sunday. Can anyone recommend anything for two slightly geeky thirty-year olds to do in the capital? The internet only wants me to go to the West End when I google activities. FreeMorpheme (talk) 09:24, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

In what way are you geeky? There are so many museums in London! This site gives you an idea, as does our own List of museums in London. This site doesn't refer you to the West End for things to do at night. --TammyMoet (talk) 09:31, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

You're going to London to solve these puzzles? Or is there some other LITS that Wikipedia doesn't have an article on? I do crossword puzzles, so I have nothing against solving puzzles. Just want to be sure we're on the same page metaphorically speaking. Dismas|^(talk) 09:47, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

I'm just guessing, but I think the OP means the London International Technology Show. Grandiose (me, talk, contribs) 09:49, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

It depends a lot on what kind of "geeky" you are. I greatly enjoyed the Sherlock Holmes Museum, and would recommend it to anyone who's read and enjoyed the books. It's actually the house that Holmes and Watson rented preserved as a historical landmark. (As if that were somehow possible.) It's located more or less exactly where it should be.

Shouldn't take much more than hour to go through, but the joy is in the attention to detail, so if you're not rather familiar with the books you'll probably think it's a waste of time and money. APL (talk) 10:56, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

One thing you can't do this weekend is go down to London to visit the Queen, because we Australians have borrowed her. Mitch Ames (talk) 12:21, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

The Science Museum and Natural History Museum are obvious choices: both free (except for some special exhibition, and they discreetly invite donations) and very close together; and near the (perhaps less geeky) Victoria and Albert Museum. The NHM at least is worth seeing just for its architecture. AndrewWTaylor (talk) 12:43, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

Just going to mention the British Museum, which I consider a bit geekier. More monumental ancient artifacts and art, fewer school tours, reduced aroma of peanut butter. Wait, do I mean it's nerdy? Geeks like technology, not ancient things. Maybe you want the Science Museum after all.  Card Zero  (talk) 06:50, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

Maybe this isn't geeky enough, but if you're a fan of the 'chuck-everything-in-a-room-together' type of museum that we seem to be fairly good at in Britain, may I heartily recommend the Horniman Museum and Gardens? It's one of my favourite museums, with a slight 'eccentric professor' feel to it. Particularly good is their stuffed walrus; in case you do go, I won't spoil it for you, but here is the link in case anyone else is interested. It's a bit of a trek from the centre of town, but worth the time if you have a spare afternoon. Cucumber Mike (talk) 13:01, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

You could go to the computer museum in Bletchley Park. It probably helps if you're also a crypto geek. It's about 1hr on the train from Euston (take the Milton Keynes train). They recommend about 1.5hrs for the guided tour. There's also the Imperial War Museum. The artillery section is in South London, the aircraft section is in Duxford, near Cambridge - its about 1hr by road from Bletchley to Duxford, but there doesn't seem to be a sensible way to go by public transport. CS Miller (talk) 16:14, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

Thanks chaps that's great. And yes, it's the show rather than the puzzles fun though they are FreeMorpheme (talk) 22:19, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

The Brunel Museum is good, although you won't need long to look round it. Although it's from a year-and-a-half ago, this site has some good ideas which might interest you. Warofdreams talk 15:54, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

For getting around, you might want to try the Boris Bikes. AndrewWTaylor (talk) 16:07, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

There's an affordable art fair in Battersea Park, fwiw. --Tagishsimon (talk) 16:09, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

And Time Out may have some more suggestions. --Tagishsimon (talk) 16:10, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

Oh, and a must-do, for me, is travel from the London Eye jetty to Greenwich on one of the Thames Clippers (you just turn up and get on, paying your fare once onboard ... just walk past the ticket office. Make sure you do not by mistake get one of the ploddy ploddy tourist boats). Then you could have lunch at Greenwich, maybe visit its museums or just have a walk up the hill to the meridian line, and perhaps travel back into London on the DLR via Canary Wharf (well worth getting off there and looking at the jolly big buildings) and underground. On the clipper, sit or stand outside at the back and feel the engines throb when they take it up to full speed on the down-stream section. --Tagishsimon (talk) 16:16, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

The Museum of Docklands is at Canary Wharf, if you're going that way (and yes, Greenwich is a good idea). The Museum of London is good too. Itsmejudith (talk) 16:30, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

Apart from the big museums and galleries, the Hunterian Museum at the Royal College of Surgeons of England (which is open on Saturdays) is fascinating (if you like that kind of thing). But be sure to leave promptly at 5pm; that's one place where you wouldn't want a Night at the Museum scenario. -- Finlay McWalterჷTalk 20:03, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

(Formerly) Sulfur-Rich Island in South Pacific

I once read quite a while ago in National Geographic about an island in the South Pacific that, due to its great and easily accessible reserves of sulfur combined with its low population (it's a small island), had one of the highest per-capita GDPs in the world. More recently earlier this year, I heard again about this place, but that things were now a lot more bust than boom now that humans had just about gutted all that sulfur. But I can't remember the island's name. Does anyone know the place I'm talking about? 20.137.18.53 (talk) 13:42, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

You mean Nauru? It was phosphate not sulphur. Nil Einne (talk) 14:02, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

Yes, that's it. Thanks. Wow, 90% unemployment (looking at the article)20.137.18.53 (talk) 14:18, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

Depending on one's formal definition of unemployment, that may have also been the case before the western world started mining the place, and may not have been a problem. HiLo48 (talk) 17:18, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

That is the result of not thinking ahead and switching to a service industry-based economy, like the UAE did. Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | ^{Say Shalom!} 23 Tishrei 5772 17:18, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

This is interesting: Nauru doesn't have an official capital. Does this make it unique or are there other entries on the List of states without national capitals? Clarityfiend (talk) 21:58, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

The Vatican City State is sometimes said to be its own capital, but in reality it does not have a capital that is in any sense distinguishable from the entire country. If it did have one, that would be a city within a country within a city within a country. -- Jack of Oz ^{[your turn]} 00:56, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

Breast shape description

So here's an odd question. I see that Wikipedia doesn't have an article talking about breast shape (whereas there is one about body shape). I'm not sure what shape description to use for a certain breast type. It shape type "h" in this chart.[17] My gf says pear-shaped, but I don't think that's right. It's for a Hebrew assignment believe it or not. I want to get the English so I can translate it into Hebrew (the fruit analogies and what not still apply in Hebrew). So how do you describe 40DD breasts of that shape? Let's also try to keep things tame here. :p Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | ^{Say Shalom!} 23 Tishrei 5772 17:16, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

I think "teardrop" is the best phrase to use there. Does that work? —Disavian (^talk/_contribs) 17:58, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

Pert but not particularly pendulous? Dualus (talk) 22:16, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

Teardrop sounds more like saggy and old with a bulb mass at the end (sorry for that image). These are more attached, full, world-class breasts I am describing. I'm afraid I don't get what you mean by pert and pendulous (except that the second has relation to a pendulum). Then again my understanding of the shape types is a bit limited (I'm not sure what she meant by pear-shaped). I am on a train atm btw, so my searching ability is limited. Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | ^{Say Shalom!} 23 Tishrei 5772 22:39, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

You're searching for breasts on the train? Here's hoping it's a bumpy ride.... Beeblebrox (talk) 01:54, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

The assignment is doing a full physical description of someone's body. As my gf is an Israelit I was able to work with her. :p So, I am describing this portion of her anatomy as part of it. I suppose I could also just put big and leave it at that (shape isn't 100% necessary). Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | ^{Say Shalom!} 24 Tishrei 5772 02:55, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

Birth date for living person - Glen P. Robinson

I'd like to add a birth date to the article Glen P. Robinson, but none of the references I have been able to find about him list that information. Is there a free website that would have that kind of information? —Disavian (^talk/_contribs) 17:50, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

Not an actual birthdate, but we can get it to about a 12-month period. In april, 1963, he was 39 years old: [18]. That's the best I could find. --Jayron32 18:05, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

Think it'd be sufficient to guess 1924, then? I know there's a corresponding template, too: {{birth year and age}} —Disavian (^talk/_contribs) 18:07, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

Whoa, I just discovered {{Birth based on age as of date}}. Sweet :D —Disavian (^talk/_contribs) 18:08, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

Use the second one; it is unclear the exact year, so that would be the correct one. Check the link I provided for the exact date of the Time Magazine article, as well. And be sure to cite it. --Jayron32 18:15, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

Done and done. Thanks for the suggestion. ^_^ —Disavian (^talk/_contribs) 18:25, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

Two or three reference works give his date of birth as September 10, 1923. --Antiquary (talk) 19:06, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

Thank you very much, I added that :) Out of curiosity, how'd you find his middle name? I don't remember coming across it. —Disavian (^talk/_contribs) 22:15, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

I think I got that by searching for "Glen Robinson 1923" at Google Books, which (at any rate when I repeated it just now) gave me the name Parmelee at the bottom of page 1. --Antiquary (talk) 08:51, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

Easter services

location of st. ann's bay to runaway bay, need a church for easter services staying at Gran Bahia Principe — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.77.132.66 (talk) 23:34, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

You don't specify a denomination. Does it matter? The Runaway Bay United Church is less than a mile away from your hotel. There is also the Church at Runaway Bay. The closest Catholic church seems to be Our Lady of Perpetual Help in St. Ann's Bay. The closest Anglican parish seems to be the Parish Church in St. Ann's Bay. Your hotel's concierge should be able to help make arrangements for you to attend the church of your choice. The concierge is also likely to have more information about the options. Marco polo (talk) 01:57, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

October 22

retrograde amnesia

my mother was talking to me last night kind of a fight it was she is really tensed about me and she suddenly fell down n the bed and i pulled her up....but she wasn't responding ...i shouted in her ear a couple of times but she din't reply suddenly she woke up and had lost the past 3 to 4 hrs memory .....what should i do...i did some digging seems it is a case of "retrograde amnesia" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.196.226.52 (talk) 12:55, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

We are unable to give you any sort of medical advice here. You should either call qualified medical help or take your mother to some form of medical facility where she can be properly assessed by a qualified professional. I hope all goes well. Richard Avery (talk) 13:20, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

Please dial 108 for emergency help. Nyttend (talk) 14:06, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

Note that OP's IP geolocated to India, thus 108. -- 110.49.248.204 (talk) 14:46, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

copy of diploma

i graduated in 1973 and am in need of a copy of my diploma............is this possible? regards..........marilyn d. smith....my email address is (Removed email to save you spam) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.248.171.87 (talk) 17:49, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

You should approach the institution where you gained the qualification (assuming they still exist). They may be able to re-issue your qualification for you (though I suspect it won't come cheap). ny156uk (talk) 17:53, 22 October 2011 (UTC)