*'''Ready''' Article has no outstanding issues and overwhelming support. Only a two-sentence update so far, but covers the essential fact of his death; I don't think anyone disputes the notability here. [[User:Khazar2|Khazar2]] ([[User talk:Khazar2|talk]]) 19:55, 25 August 2012 (UTC)
*'''Ready''' Article has no outstanding issues and overwhelming support. Only a two-sentence update so far, but covers the essential fact of his death; I don't think anyone disputes the notability here. [[User:Khazar2|Khazar2]] ([[User talk:Khazar2|talk]]) 19:55, 25 August 2012 (UTC)
*'''Support but''' The update doesn't meet the minimum. Also while we rush to support this (and I think we're right to), aside from being the first man on the moon, he hasn't really done anything notable in the last 40 years. We will do well to remember this nom the next time a "lesser" death nom gets pooped on. --[[User:IP98|IP98]] ([[User talk:IP98|talk]]) 19:58, 25 August 2012 (UTC)
*'''Support but''' The update doesn't meet the minimum. Also while we rush to support this (and I think we're right to), aside from being the first man on the moon, he hasn't really done anything notable in the last 40 years. We will do well to remember this nom the next time a "lesser" death nom gets pooped on. --[[User:IP98|IP98]] ([[User talk:IP98|talk]]) 19:58, 25 August 2012 (UTC)
*'''Posted''' Although the "Death" section is extremely brief at this point in time, the quality of the rest of the article describing Armstrong's life makes up for it. This section will presumably be updated as more details are released. '''[[User:Spencer|<span style="color:#082567">Spencer</span>]]'''<sup>[[User talk:Spencer|<span style="color:#FFBF00">T♦</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Spencer|<span style="color:#FFBF00">C</span>]]</sup> 19:59, 25 August 2012 (UTC)
This candidates page is integrated with the daily pages of Portal:Current events. A light green header appears under each daily section - it includes transcluded Portal:Current events items for that day. You can discuss ITN candidates under the header.
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Make sure the item you want to nominate has an article that meets our minimum requirements and contains reliable coverage of a current event you want to create a blurb about. We will not post about events described in an article that fails our quality standards.
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Comment on a story without first reading the relevant article(s).
Libya: Unnamed organized assailants bulldoze a Sufi mosque with graves, in broad daylight in the centre of the Libyan capital Tripoli. It is the second such razing of a Sufi site in two days. De facto head of state Mohamed Yousef el-Magariaf tells reporters: "What is truly regrettable and suspicious is that some of those who took part in these destruction activities are supposed to be of the security forces and from the revolutionaries." (Reuters via Yahoo! News)
Thirty-seven Chinese nationals, arrested in Angola due to their alleged involvement in criminal acts, are extradited and due to be tried in China. (BBC)
The Voyager 1 space probe becomes the first human-made object to successfully exit the Solar System and enter Interstellar space, and to an extent, becoming the first Interstellar probe, pioneering Interstellar exploration. (NASA)
Support This one seems pretty clear cut to me. If Armstrong doesn't qualify for ITN posting who does? Crispmuncher (talk) 19:18, 25 August 2012 (UTC).[reply]
Support, since he is well-known all over the world. Egeymi (talk) 19:17, 25 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support - Extremely notable around the world. Should be posted ASAP. BritishWatcher (talk) 19:24, 25 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support once updated. Formerip (talk) 19:27, 25 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support, Obvious. Technically needs updates but there doesn't appear to be commentary on his passing in the press yet. μηδείς (talk) 19:29, 25 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support - obvious ITN material. Should go up fast. Jusdafax 19:32, 25 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support, for obvious reasons. Lemonade51 (talk) 19:35, 25 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Absolute support. DS (talk) 19:39, 25 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support!!!!!!! Do it now! Speciate (talk) 19:40, 25 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Strongest support ever We shouldn't even have to discuss this. --T1980 (talk) 19:49, 25 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support There's no reason to wait. Can someone just add it now? A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 19:52, 25 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Ready Article has no outstanding issues and overwhelming support. Only a two-sentence update so far, but covers the essential fact of his death; I don't think anyone disputes the notability here. Khazar2 (talk) 19:55, 25 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support but The update doesn't meet the minimum. Also while we rush to support this (and I think we're right to), aside from being the first man on the moon, he hasn't really done anything notable in the last 40 years. We will do well to remember this nom the next time a "lesser" death nom gets pooped on. --IP98 (talk) 19:58, 25 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Posted Although the "Death" section is extremely brief at this point in time, the quality of the rest of the article describing Armstrong's life makes up for it. This section will presumably be updated as more details are released. SpencerT♦C 19:59, 25 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support, notable in terms of both the refinery's capacity and death toll. Major media cover the news, too. However, the article needs further update.Egeymi (talk) 12:42, 25 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support - definitly for ITN.--BabbaQ (talk) 12:49, 25 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Suppportonce updated - Top news on BBC and Al Jazeera, so no problem for notability. But article does need the usual 5 sentence update. Re-marking this as not updated. Khazar2 (talk) 13:02, 25 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support Clearly falls within our criteria for such tragic events. I agree with Khazar that an article update is required, but that doesn't hinder my support for the nomination as a whole doktorbwordsdeeds 14:14, 25 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Ready Article has now been minimally updated, and since it's unopposed so far, I'm also marking ready. Khazar2 (talk) 14:55, 25 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support BBC now has death toll at 24 and injuries over fifty with production stopped for 48 hours. The Rambling Man (talk) 14:57, 25 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support Making big headlines around the world, clearly meets criteria for tragedies. Cheers, Zaldax (talk) 15:08, 25 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment or FYI, the article is updated, but an editor continuously deletes the details of the explosion. Can someone care about it? Thanks, Egeymi (talk) 15:38, 25 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I'd suggest going to WP:AN/3RR. The editor appears to be on their eighth or ninth attempt to delete this material. Khazar2 (talk) 15:53, 25 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support Major disaster with a broad coverage worldwide. The article looks good as well.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 16:07, 25 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support per Kiril. Regards, Sun Creator(talk) 18:46, 25 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
A gunman shoots and kills a former coworker near the Empire State Building in New York City. Following the initial shooting, police kill the gunman, and nine other people are wounded. (CNN)
Oppose -Find this not to be suitable for ITN.--BabbaQ (talk) 23:22, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Care to elaborate? Hot Stop 23:28, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose unless there's something more significant about it. Doesn't one of these cases come to a conclusion approximately every other day? Formerip (talk) 23:24, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Given that Samsung is likely going to appeal, probably not, though I will point the $1B verdict makes this rather significant. --MASEM (t) 23:25, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose A mere stumble on the long, long road of this journey doktorbwordsdeeds 23:27, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Oppose - While certainly notable, it doesn't seem notable enough for me to support for ITN, as it's simply a court case between two competitors and the verdict, with possible future trials as well, and not anything groundbreaking. --Activism1234 23:31, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Pile on oppose. There have been a seemingly infinite number of judgements in countless jurisdictions each coming to mutually incompatible results in this particular spat. It's also the kind of business story we feature far too prominently on ITN: when was the last time a textiles company (for example) mentioned? For some reason if it's Intel/Apple/Google/Facebook it is automatically more notable. Crispmuncher (talk) 02:29, 25 August 2012 (UTC).[reply]
Support What happens in the US trial may have worldwide implications. Personally, I believe that the blurb needs to be changed. Something like "Apple wins patent dispute against Samsung in US, to be awarded over $1 billion"Regards, theTigerKing 04:15, 25 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
oppose mentioning the US trial without the Korean one is POV. And at any rate, this doesnt have implications without synthesisLihaas (talk) 09:16, 25 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support This has important implications in the realm of software patents. For the uninitiated, imagine GM had a patent on "Turning a key in a lock to engage the ignition of an automobile". Slide to unlock baby, and Apple was awarded a billion dollars for it. It's not unexpected that immediately after, Google used their newly acquired Motorola patents to counter sue Apple. Samsung will likely appeal, so maybe we can brush this aside for now, but we can't adopt the position "waaaaa it's only a lawsuit, isn't there a fight in a cafe in the middle east somewhere". In the US, litigation is a major vehicle for establishing prescient, so this is significant. --IP98 (talk) 11:54, 25 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support Agree with IP98, but assume "precedent" was meant, not "prescient". μηδείς (talk) 18:32, 25 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support. This is major world news involving two major world companies. DillonLarson (talk) 19:24, 25 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support This court case will have huge and lasting impact on the global economy and people's lives. A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 19:55, 25 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Oppose Trivial news event that is making headline across the world.Regards, theTigerKing 15:51, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Well, I wouldn't call it a "trivial news event", but I do have to admit to a level of "American mass shooting" fatigue. I'd say post only if it is otherwise a slow news day. Resolute 15:52, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Even Prince Harry was making news. It is just a small incident that happened in a busy street of New York.Yes, unusual event in New York. Every breaking news shouldn't be considered. The death tally is low. Number of injured are less.(wrt events that were denied ITN)Regards, theTigerKing 15:55, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Weak oppose Low death and injury tally, and I too feel that a continuing series of American mass shootings is getting a little redundant. Canuck89 (converse with me) 16:01, August 24, 2012 (UTC)
Every loss of life is regrettable. Recently, an event (Regarding floods in South Asia) was denied. The figures were much higher. An elderly couple was shot dead in New Delhi this week in broad daylight. Surely, it won't figure. The event is a domestic issue of USA. The shooting has gained headlines because it happens to happen in "New York". Not notable enough for international consumption.Regards, theTigerKing 16:10, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support Remember those sweet, naive days of July when some of us could still argue that the US didn't have three mass shootings a week? I'm getting the fatigue Resolute mentions, too, but this is at the moment the world's top news story: top on the New York Times (duh), BBC, Al Jazeera, and second on Xinhua. It's logical to assume that a large number of readers will be interested in its article, making it well-suited for ITN per the first statement of our purpose: "To help readers find and quickly access content they are likely to be searching for because an item is in the news". Khazar2 (talk) 16:02, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Blurb check It appears one of the two dead is the gunman himself,[10] making our phrasing either inaccurate or misleading. It's also possible some of the wounded were hit by police fire, according to the mayor (see same story). Perhaps something more like "A shooting by a disgruntled employee results in two deaths and nine people wounded outside..."? Khazar2 (talk) 16:08, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Disgruntled worker kills former colleague. Sad for those involved but not nearly notable enough. Leaky Caldron 16:05, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose While presently highly covered, the situation appears to be over. Also, the fact that 19 people were wounded by gunfire in Chicago just the night before [11] and that's being overshadowed, suggests that this is just interesting because it was at NYC. --MASEM (t) 16:07, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Strong oppose Minor event. --Τασουλα (talk) 16:15, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Pretty minor to make the top headline for Al Jazeera, NYT, BBC, and CNN... --Activism1234 16:18, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
^^ Pure sensationalism. Same with the Prince Harry nonsense. Use common sense and stop relying other news outlets to do the job for you. This mentality is starting to piss me off. --Τασουλα (talk) 20:19, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
As somebody who often uses similar logic myself, I have to say I don't get the anger. Editors sometimes talk as if we're writing a history book here, and nothing must be included unless it's "for the ages"--but ITN is just a collection of links to Wikipedia content that lasts only 3-5 days. I don't see the harm in linking something that's of high-interest for a week only, since by that point the blurb will have expired anyway. Khazar2 (talk) 20:42, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The only reason its getting broad coverage then is because it took place at the same location as 9/11, and there was an initial rush talking about terrorism (which has been proven false). If the exact same events , fatalities and injuries, took place anywhere else but NYC, I would except it to far less covered (Again, Chicago had 19 people wounded by gunfire across the city that same night. Where's that coverage?) --MASEM (t) 16:21, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Exactly - the fact it took place in NYC gave it that amount of notability to make the headlines. I wouldn't expect that in some other cities. --Activism1234 16:25, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Exactly! Prince Harry recently was making headlines around the world. Beleive me, an article on his Las Vegas trip would make a good read. Would the article be notable enough for it to be in ITN?Regards, theTigerKing 16:43, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Immediately putting a location bias, a factor we've been trying to fight against for the last 6 months here. A completely fair question to ask is "If this event took place in (minor city) instead of (major city), would it likely have the same coverage? The theater shooting? Yes. The church shooting? Yes. This? Absolutely not. Ergo, we need to dismiss the importance of NYC to the news reporting here and as an ITN item. --MASEM (t) 16:32, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Very Strong Oppose - Our standards on posting U.S. based stories have tightened and rightly so. Compared to the stories that are currently on the ITN ticker, this isolated shooting is of absolutely piddling significance. That said, it's somewhat notable that it occurred in a city with one of the strictest gun laws in the nation.--WaltCip (talk) 16:34, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Strong oppose- Despite what the press thinks, not every US shooting is notable. Bzweebl (talk • contribs) 16:48, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose This was temporarily the top story of the moment, but the international interest is probably fleeting and doesn't merit ITN coverage.--Chaser (talk) 16:50, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support Top news is top news. "Shooting fatigue" on the part of editors isn't a valid reason not to post top news. I know it won't be posted, but it shouldn't be "snowed" either. – Muboshgu (talk) 17:44, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Just not important enough. Not enough deaths (as crass as that sounds), not an unusual context or distinctive enough set-up. The Denver shootings was a successful nomination because it was so unusual an event with many deaths; this is a good example of the opposite of that. doktorbwordsdeeds 17:58, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
OpposeTwo people murdered in NYC. Of course it's sad, but not ITN. --RA (talk) 18:24, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose, it is very ordinary not only for NY City but also for every big city in any country. I am sure that today such cases happened all over the world. Egeymi (talk) 21:53, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Oppose -this is not a major shooting. Would not have recieved world press had it been in lets say Slovenia.--BabbaQ (talk) 23:17, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I guess you haven't heard of the shooting in Finland some time ago that got massive airtime... –HTD 14:26, 25 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: Iv'e changed the link. – HonorTheKing (talk) 08:41, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support A highly notable crime, the ruling considers him not insane which is also of importance. doktorbwordsdeeds 08:54, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: I believe it should be included that this is no 'normal' 21 years sentence, but 21 years of permanent detention, which is to say that the prisoner should not expect to be let out after 21 years has passed. Njardarlogar (talk) 08:59, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Criminal cases are not posted on WP:ITN until appeals have been exhausted. The sentencing could still change. --hydrox (talk) 09:04, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support. This should be posted now whether or not there is a chance of an appeal. Besides, Breivik has said he is not going to appeal. __meco (talk) 10:13, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support. Trial of the century. Breivik announces he will not appeal[13] and accepts the sentence. JonFlaune (talk) 11:01, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support, of course. Nsk92 (talk) 11:25, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Posted (by NuclearWarfare). JonFlaune (talk) 11:52, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment So below (with Armstrong case), the consensus is that court decisions should not be posted until they are final, but in this case we post regardless? Also note that even if Breivik does not appeal, the prosecutor might. And Breivik can still change his mind until appeal period expires as part of his "media game". This is why I don't remember ever seeing ITN posting court decisions until they are FINAL. --hydrox (talk) 14:26, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The Armstrong case is totally different; we don't even know if the organization is even allowed to issue the punishments against him, hence the wait. In this case the sentencing is very widely reported in the media as if it were final, and to be honest, I don't think anyone thinks it isn't. Besides, if we don't post now it will be stale by the time we do. EricLeb01 (Page | Talk) 15:54, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed. At this time, both Breivik's counsel and the prosecutor have announced there will be no appeal. Very technically speaking, the sentence will be final by default in two weeks, but it will hardly be news at that time. JonFlaune (talk) 21:05, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
ALT1 = Lance Armstrong announces his decision not to fight the USADA charges of doping despite their intention of stripping him of his seven Tour de France titles. (Post) News source(s):[14], [15], [16] Credits:
Breaking news across the board, a top story on every paper you can name, really. I think I'm jumping the gun a bit because the ban won't officially be enacted until Friday, but every paper seems to already set this in stone. WizardmanOperation Big Bear 03:09, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support I think the newsworthy-ness of this is sufficient to post now. Though I wouldn't argue with waiting until Friday, I don't see the point in waiting. – Muboshgu (talk) 03:12, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support only once ban is official. Obviously notable, but the blurb phrasing is technically inaccurate at the moment: NYT reports Armstrong "will be banned", not "is banned" at the moment.[17] We shouldn't make a mistake like that with a front-page BLP. Khazar2 (talk) 03:18, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Good point. If it goes up now, it should say something like "the USADA decides to ban..." – Muboshgu (talk) 03:21, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Obvious support. I agree that we could wait a tad, but in general once there's a solid update I"d post ASAP.--Johnsemlak (talk) 03:24, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Wait until he is banned; he will be banned. Bzweebl (talk • contribs) 03:38, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support - Sure is sad to see some of the finest sportsmen of my generation disgrace themselves like this (much like Mark McGwire).--WaltCip (talk) 03:49, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Did you read his statement? He said that he was sick and tired of the accusations and investigations against him despite the countless doping tests, so he decided to stop defending himself in proceedings. The USADA took it as an admission of guilt and immediately issued the ban. Smells like a witch hunt and a man who's just sick and tired of it. You can read the statement here. EricLeb01 (Page | Talk) 04:07, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Strong support - very famous bicyclist, breaking and major news, haven't got stuff like this on ITN in a while, reasons above. --Activism1234 03:57, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Obvious SupportWait Not a supporter of posting sports news, but 7-time Tour de France winner is sorta big. μηδείς (talk) 04:01, 24 August 2012 (UTC) Have to agree with Ericleb01, a nolo contendere is not an admission of guilt, and not sure how an american body can strip french titles.[reply]
Support but losing the titles should be the lead part of the blurb, not the ban. Hot Stop 04:07, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comments: Correct if it's wrong, but our article says "... although no official statement has yet been issued by USADA." Shouldn't we wait at least until they issue it? --BorgQueen (talk) 04:08, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support in future, wait for now Keep in mind that there's some debate if the USADA even has the authority to strip Armstrong of his titles. The International Cycling Union has yet to comment, as well. In any case, wait until the official statement/ban goes into effect. Cheers, Zaldax (talk) 04:17, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Obvious support if the blurb remains true once the facts have settled down. The TdF is ITNR so a change in results of 7 tours must surely count as notable. However the BBC for one are reporting confusion over whether the USADA actually has the power to strip him of the victories. That needs to be clarified before this is posted. I suspect that will need Europe to wake up before a definitive statement one way or the other can be given. Crispmuncher (talk) 04:20, 24 August 2012 (UTC).[reply]
Support — I am quite shocked to hear the news. This is a pretty notable event, and a shoo-in for coverage on the main page. Kurtis (talk) 05:31, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Wait the moment he is officially stripped of his victories this should be posted. But as of now it only seems that USDA can continue to look into the allegations. It is not clear if his results can be stripped the moment he says I quit. Nergaal (talk) 06:03, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support Highly significant that he is to be stripped of his titles, leaving an empty space in so many Wikipedia templates and tables of course! A very important (and from his perspective, bloody daft) story. doktorbwordsdeeds 08:04, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Update Actually, as far as I can tell, he hasn't been found guilty of anything or stripped of his wins/titles. Until either happens, then nothing should be posted. LugnutsAnd the horse 11:34, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Strongest possible wait if that is not too strange a !vote position. Ban is essentially redundant: he has not been active as a professional for more than two years, and there is no clear indication from anyone other than the USADA that he is no longer considered winner of those tours. The ASO (organisers of the Tour de France) still list Bjarne Riis as winner of the 1996 Tour, albeit with an asterisk, and still have third place in the 2008 edition vacant. Kevin McE (talk) 11:44, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Impossible to support. It is complete speculation per WP:CRYSTAL until formal announcements are made. Even then, he could appeal against the stripping of titles to the Court of Arbitration for Sport. Stick to the known facts - he is no longer going to appeal against doping allegations. Leaky Caldron 11:54, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support, but wait - I echo Leaky caldron's view on this. --Τασουλα (talk) 12:06, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support - Not your average sports story. Indeed, I predict this will be posted before the day is done in California. This is huge news and will reignite the debate about sports doping. Jusdafax 12:42, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Question Does the USADA have the authority to formally strip LA of his TDF titles? Because it seems fairly established that they will do that.--Johnsemlak (talk) 12:50, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Not really, or at least it is debatable. That's the point everyone seems to be missing. I would suggest an alternate text based on the line from Lance Armstrong: The US Anti-Doping Agency bans the cyclist Lance Armstrong for life, and recommends he is stripped of his record seven Tour de France titles. It is somewhat lengthy, but unless the issues can be made clear I would oppose posting. The alternative would be to wait until the UCI officially strips him of his titles, or not.--23230talk 13:32, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Going with everyone else by saying strong wait. No question this is notable, but the main question is if it will actually happen. EricLeb01 (Page | Talk) 15:50, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
BIG NEWS obvious support the debate about whether or not the USADA has the power to strip him should be in the article. The USADA has made the statement, that's news and NOT CRYSTAL. The specifics can go in the article, but this should be on the main page now. I came to WP looking for this article to see what is going on and was surprised it wasn't In the News. And for those who are saying, "Wait until its official"---by the time that is determined, this may no longer be newsworthy... when the beaucracy is done, it may not be front page news.38.100.76.228 (talk) 15:58, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Most of the opposes are because of the blurb. Can someone find wording that isn't crystal but still factual and newsworthy. Regards, Sun Creator(talk) 17:02, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Strong wait. Lance Armstrong is 40, so his being banned from cycling is a sad fall from grace for him, but has limited obvious consequences for the sport. Being stripped of his Tour de France titles would be a bigger deal and possibly ITN-worthy. But, as noted by several editors, this looks like it may be a bit of nonsense posturing by the USADA, who are quite possibly no more entitled to do that than they are to revoke his high school diploma. We absolutely must at least wait for comment from whoever it is that actually does have authority over Tour de France titles. Formerip (talk) 17:33, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support Seven-time winner of Tour de France is stripped of all his medals and banned from the sport for life? Now, that's ITN for an encyclopedia. --RA (talk) 18:27, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
SupportWait Someone being stripped of his record number of wins in the most prestigious race in the sport is a very big deal. Given that it's a breaking news in sport everywhere, there is nothing to contest its sufficiency for inclusion.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 19:35, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
could be stripped of all his medals. could be stripped of tour de France wins. could beWP:crystal. Regards, Sun Creator(talk) 21:01, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You seem to be right and the nomination appears to inform something that did not happen as he hasn't officially yet been stripped of his wins.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 23:33, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Question perhaps this isn't the place for it, but I don't understand how a national body can strip a cyclist of victories from another country. It really feels to me like we should wait for the verdict from an international body because this comes off as the USADA blowing hot air. --PlasmaTwa2 00:57, 25 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
In the simpler case of a failed drug test, the national drug testing authority that conducts the test (could be home or training base of athlete, could be determined by location of event for in-competition testing) has authority to impose a ban and annul results since proven start date of doping. This is complicated by virtue of non-lab test evidence, which according to WADA rules requires the uncovering authority to reveal evidence to sporting body involved (as WFC states below), and UCI is claiming that it has been the uncovering authority for at least some of the evidence. Kevin McE (talk) 08:58, 25 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Strong oppose any mention of Tour de France. The USADA has the ability to strip him of the titles, but only once the UCI and WADA receive and accept the USADA's reasoned decision [18].
However, given how huge the story is right now, I support a blurb that acknowledges the story, such as Cyclist Lance Armstrong decides not to contest USADA doping charges. —WFC— 02:38, 25 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Meh I support a blurb such as WFC's above, but I'm not too big a fan of the ALT1 blurb posted above. Cheers, Zaldax (talk) 02:49, 25 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
This is fairly breaking news, so it remains to be seen just how widely this will be reported on. However, it represents a major step forward in the stabilization of the new Libya. I'd like to note that the amount of tanks seized from one militia is more than the entire arsenal of some countries! Cheers, Zaldax (talk) 02:29, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support: Looks like a big deal from the news articles cited. As a side note, never knew that North Korea had more tanks than India or that Mexico didnt have any ! Chocolate Horlicks (talk) 03:08, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support- Why does Russia have so many more tanks than the US? Bzweebl (talk • contribs) 03:40, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Canada or China, you tell me. μηδείς (talk) 04:07, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Such clean-up operations are to be expected. Unless there is something I am missing, these tanks were just sitting around, not patrolling the desert and terrorising the Brits whilst under El Rommel's command. μηδείς (talk) 04:07, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
These militias are possibly the greatest challenge facing the new Libya, and it doesn't look like we've run a story (aside from the elections) on them in some time. Also, the militia in question was responsible for twin car bombings in Tripoli on Sunday, so they're definitely an active threat. (or at least, they were.) Seriously, though; this militia had as many tanks as the Finnish military.Cheers, Zaldax (talk) 04:20, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Added Al Jazeera's article as another source. Cheers, Zaldax (talk) 04:42, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - Great news for Libyans, as this could otherwise have developed into a pretty nasty situation. But is it a significant enough development in itself to mention on the main page? Personally, I think not. Kurtis (talk) 05:33, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose New regime forces seize arms and make arrests after civil war? That's a lot of tanks, but otherwise very normal. --RA (talk) 18:32, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Russia says that it is working closely with the Syrian government to establish guarantees that Assad won't move or use Syria's chemical weapons. (AP via Haaretz)
Pakistan again officially protests against the U.S. drone strikes, calling them unlawful, against international law and a violation of Pakistan’s sovereignty. Pakistan states emphatically that the attacks are "unacceptable". (Pakistan Ministry of Foreign Affairs)
Law and crime
Former Polly Peck tycoon Asil Nadir is jailed for 10 years for stealing £29m ($46m) from the company. (BBC)
Article:No article specified Blurb: Dozens of Pakistanis and Indians are killed in heavy flooding and monsoon rains. (Post) News source(s):1, 2, 3 Credits:
Oppose. It shouldn't be trivialised, but basically the blurb could be re-written as It's monsoon season in India and Pakistan, just like it is this time every year. If there's a major landslide or something that passes the look-at-all-these-dead-people-how-can-we-not-post-that test, then maybe that incident should be posted. Formerip (talk) 23:15, 23 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I'll be honest that this wouldn't be my #1 nomination (although I do think it could make it to ITN), but there's been some inactivity here at ITN, mainly due to static world news or not interesting enough, and I sure as heck wasn't nominating this! --Activism1234 23:20, 23 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per FormerIP, and pending an obvious article home for the information. Khazar2 (talk) 00:03, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: Is there an article for the specific monsoon nominated? If it doesn't have it's own article, it's hard to judge notability. And if it doesn't have/deserve an article, then it's probably not notable enough. SpencerT♦C 00:41, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
One can always be created, as done in many cases at ITN, if enough editors feel this should be posted, I'd be willing to create an article. --Activism1234 01:19, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose for now: This isnt really grabbing headlines here in India (Sample front pages: [26], [27], [28]) or from I can gather from Pakistani websites, in Pakistan either (Sample front pages: [29], [30], [31]. The deathtoll seems like an aggregate of various small incidents throughout the entire Indian subcontinent which is in fact experiencing drought in some areas due to lack of rainfall. None of these incidents on its own seem to make the cut. Chocolate Horlicks (talk) 02:44, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Strong oppose- This is old news, there is no update, and large West Nile outbreaks aren't out of the ordinary in the US. In 2010, there were more deaths and about the same amount of cases as this year. Bzweebl (talk • contribs) 16:25, 23 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I just saw it as a top headline on Al Jazeera and CNN today. --Activism1234 16:27, 23 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
That doesn't always equate to notability. I still oppose for the same reasons. Bzweebl (talk • contribs) 16:40, 23 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
All right, I respect that. --Activism1234 16:55, 23 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per Bzweebl and quick disappearance from prominent international coverage. (The BBC currently has 5-7 US stories higher than this, for example). Kudos to A1234 for the update, though. Khazar2 (talk) 00:08, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
comment Cholera out break in Sierra Leone has killed almost 250 p[eople so far and will perhaps go up . If someone wants to create that article...Im not doing so as i dont think its notable encycloaedically (though we have one for Haiti last year), though its quite plausibly ITN worthyLihaas (talk) 07:02, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Clashes between supporters of Syrian President Bashar Al-Assad (predominately Alawite neighborhoods) and opposition supporters (predominately Sunni neighborhoods) have been ongoing since the beginning of the week, but they seem to only have escalated to widespread coverage recently. Earlier today, a fragile ceasefire that was brokered yesterday by community leaders dissolved, resulting in at least one known death (Bringing the total to 12 confirmed deaths and 45 confirmed wounded so far.) The Lebanese Army has deployed tanks to the city, in an attempt to bring the situation under control. The international community considers this a serious development; to quote the BBC News article
"The UN political chief Jeffrey Feltman described the situation as "precarious". He told the UN Security Council that, as the situation in Syria deteriorated, there was a risk that it could escalate in Lebanon too."
I know we already have a Syrian Civil War sticky, but this is a big development, as if I'm not mistaken this is the first confirmed time the conflict has spilled over Syria's borders. Given Syria and Lebanon's prior history, I'd suggest we post this as soon as the article is updated. (I'd also appreciate comments on the blurb; given that this is my first ITN nomination, I'm not entirely sure what to do.) Cheers, Zaldax (talk) 15:45, 23 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Suppport - yes, we have a sticky on the Syrian Civl War. But this is news of that war spilling over into Lebanon, which is very significant, and can have major implications for Lebanon. --Activism1234 15:53, 23 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support, Lebanon is already critical area and this news shows the effects of Syria on Lebanon. Egeymi (talk) 16:08, 23 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support- The blurb isn't good, but Lebanon getting involved is huge. Bzweebl (talk • contribs) 12:21 pm, Today (UTC−4)
Comment It is not trending in Google News- USA,UK,India,Australia to name a few.Regards, theTigerKing 17:19, 23 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
It's definitely a "developing story"; Front page of BBC News I'm a little perplexed by the uneven coverage, to be honest. Cheers, Zaldax (talk) 17:28, 23 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Aaaand they bumped it before I could get a stable URL. As of now, it's still on the front page, but it's no longer the second highest story. You have Mitt Romney to "thank" for that. Cheers, Zaldax (talk) 17:41, 23 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose minor disturbances between various ethnic groups in what is nothing more than a little self-generated bother. --IP98 (talk) 18:07, 23 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict)I'd venture that a "minor disturbance" wouldn't provoke a comment from a high UN official calling the situation "precarious", nor would it merit the deployment of the Lebanese military to pacify the area. See the article 2012 conflict in Lebanon; I'm surprised at how under-reported this really is. Cheers, Zaldax (talk) 19:01, 23 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose for now It's not yet a major development. Reconsider if the conflict in Tripoli escaltes to an actual urban warfare, or if the unrest spreads to Beirut. --hydrox (talk) 18:39, 23 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - top headline on CNN. --Activism1234 19:33, 23 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support As Zaldax says, oddly uneven coverage, but prominent enough in some sources (CNN, BBC, Al Jazeera) to justify posting. Plus it passes the common sense test--another country getting sucked into the violence is obvious big news. Khazar2 (talk) 00:11, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I've revised the blurb, but I still don't think it's very good. Does anyone have any idea how to improve it? Cheers, Zaldax (talk) 01:34, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I've tagged the entry as possibly ready. Cheers, Zaldax (talk) 04:30, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose The event must be treated, for now, as an isolated event. The event is a minor development. The event has not been trending even now, had it been a major development. The contention that the war be "spilling over" are individual point of view. This again, hasn't been reported either by any respected journal. Regards, theTigerKing 05:27, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Strong postmortem support as per Activism1234 above me. The situation that is taking hold in Lebanon has a great deal of relevance to Syria, and to the broader Middle East sectarian conflict. Kurtis (talk) 05:35, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for nominating this bad news dear Zaldax and posting it dear BorgQueen, very serious. I hope I am wrong.Egeymi (talk) 06:39, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
comment the article is awful at the moment and ive tagged it as ssuch (which was reason to remove the Bahrain uprising last time), but the update is there. One could link to the relevant section instead OR link to the other article (which i haven seen ye)Lihaas (talk) 06:58, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Updating: I'll try and fix this thing up as best I can. While I"m at it, I'm going to update the article with the latest information, which can be found here in this BBC story. Cheers, Zaldax (talk) 15:06, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose better suited for DYK unless very serious consequences happen from this, which is too soon to tell. Secretaccount 05:59, 23 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Doubtful any book launch is important enough for the front page, unless "The Bible II" ever comes out. Secret is right, maybe there's somewhere else for this to go. doktorbwordsdeeds 06:12, 23 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Preemptive support for Bible II. --12.41.124.2 (talk) 20:53, 23 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose DYK for sure is a better location and certainly would qualify with article creation timing. --MASEM (t) 13:04, 23 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Exactly per above. Sounds about perfect for a DYK. Cheers, Zaldax (talk) 13:47, 23 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per lack of significant consequences so far, but agree that this would make a great DYK. Thanks to DarthBotto for the work on the article. Khazar2 (talk) 00:13, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Opppose "Man writes book" is not news. DYK. --RA (talk) 12:38, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Syrian forces shell two separate districts in the capital Damascus; rebels say at least 47 people are killed. Frequent fighting is reported in Aleppo and other parts of the country. The United Nations estimate that 18,000 people have been killed in the conflict. (Reuters)
The BBC turns down "flat" a proposal for a statue to George Orwell who resigned from the organisation "because for some time past I have been conscious that I was wasting my time and the public money on doing work that produces no results." (The Guardian)(BBC)
Disasters
A plane carrying 11 tourists crashes in the Maasai Mara game reserve in southwestern Kenya, killing at least four people and injuring up to three others. (BBC)
It becomes known that a freight train derailment, yesterday near Baltimore, caused military fiber optic cables to be cut so much that communications were quite seriously disrupted. This in turn caused to justify further delaying the start of the big-gun suspects' trial at Guantánamo Bay by two more days, to within "likely more than a year". (Huffington Post)
Oppose Some of those sources are a week old. Also, using the casualty logic being applied below, if a shooting that kills two and wounds nine isn't "deadly enough", then I don't think a disease outbreak that kills nine and "wounds" fifteen is sufficient either. – Muboshgu (talk) 20:39, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
We've usually also based it in part on whether the mode of death itself is unusual: shootings that kill several people are common in the United States. We did post the Ugandan outbreak (also described at Ebola_virus_disease#2012_outbreaks), which had 16 deaths, earlier this month.--Chaser (talk) 20:47, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose based on lack of evidence of prominent international coverage. Khazar2 (talk) 20:52, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support if this gets any bigger. μηδείς (talk) 21:10, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support- Shootings in US happen quite often. Based on the chart in the proposed article, there have only been two breakouts in the DRC since it became the DRC. Bzweebl (talk • contribs) 21:18, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support - More notable than the West Nile virus outbreak in the U.S.--WaltCip (talk) 21:33, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The West Nile outbreak wasn't posted, so this being more notable doesn't mean this should be. – Muboshgu (talk) 22:25, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support - it is notable since it has potential danger whatever the death toll it causes. Egeymi (talk) 21:46, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - As the most recent of these sources is from 22 August, moving to this date for clarity and to preserve chronology. Khazar2 (talk) 23:15, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: What's our precedent vis a vis Ebola outbreaks? This is notable for sure, but the current disparity in coverage makes me hesitant to support it. Cheers, Zaldax (talk) 01:15, 25 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's comments: This isn't the #1 headline, but it is one of the top headlines or close to #1 for a variety of notable international media outlets (The New York Times, Al Jazeera, BBC, CNN, etc), and this ethnic violence is particularly gruesome, involving machetes and killing women and children. --Activism1234 17:31, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support when article is readyRegards, theTigerKing 17:36, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Hi, I updated the article recently. Thanks. --Activism1234 19:23, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Very weak support. Is it just me, or does ITN voting sometimes feel like Top Trumps with piles of dead bodies? Formerip (talk) 17:43, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support- These aren't the types of deaths we've posted recently, like earthquakes or riots. This is plain violence. Bzweebl (talk • contribs) 17:51, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support, sure for ITN, since it involves etnic unrest and violence.Egeymi (talk) 17:55, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, I'll update it now. --Activism1234 18:43, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Not in world headlines, not unexpected, no projected readership interest, no great article to promote; same old same old. μηδείς (talk) 18:40, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Very weak Support Coverage is a bit sparse, and I'm not sure how much of an addition to the article could be made. If there's enough information for a new article to be created, I'd support it, but despite the event's notability I'm not sure we're prepared to post it. Cheers, Zaldax (talk) 18:51, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Now that an article has been created, I'm fully behind this posting. Cheers, Zaldax (talk) 12:59, 23 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support high number of causalities in a fairly stable African country. Google world news top 20. --IP98 (talk) 20:44, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support — Damn, the situation in Kenya sure is deteriorating at an alarming rate, isn't it? But this is one of the nastier incidents in recent memory. Definitely worthy of comment here. Kurtis (talk) 21:22, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Whoops, sorry, mistook this update as being related to Nigeria (that country's situation is "deteriorating at an alarming rate"). Still, this is big news. Kurtis (talk) 23:12, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comments: The article is currently tagged with a "refimprove". It will have to be dealt with first. --BorgQueen (talk) 21:29, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Do you think it'd just be easier for me to move the ethnic violence section into a new article? Seems like a tough job to find info for the unreferenced sentences in reliable outlets. --Activism1234 21:36, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I think creating a separate article might be better... --BorgQueen (talk) 21:39, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. It can probably be expanded a bit too. I changed the blurb to fit it. --Activism1234 22:09, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks everyone. Now this nom needs to be simmered for a while so no one will complain that I've posted it too soon. :D --BorgQueen (talk) 22:13, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: Article still on the short side. Also, the blurb should probably be re-written: although factual, "women and children being hacked to death" isn't as helpful when describing the larger issues surrounding the conflict. SpencerT♦C 22:15, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I'm open to suggestions. --Activism1234 22:32, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Ready- Time has passed with still nearly unanimous support. The support arguments far outweigh the oppose, and one of the oppose reasons given was that their was no article, which is no longer true. Overall, this is definitely good for posting. Bzweebl (talk • contribs) 00:20, 23 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support: Notable incident. Have included an infobox in the article. I'm not good with maps, so I've included only the location of the province - perhaps someone can replace that with the specific location of the district. Chocolate Horlicks (talk) 01:38, 23 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I'm usually good with that, I can replace it with a coordinate map. Thanks for the infobox though. --Activism1234 01:43, 23 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support - Article still on the thin side but acceptable in my book. My thanks to those who upgraded; I think it's ITN-worthy now. Jusdafax 03:15, 23 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Strictly domestic news, if he had died under assisted suicide (If it were ruled legal) I would support however. --Τασουλα (talk) 17:05, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. Unless editors around the world say different, this certainly feels like domestic news to me. Formerip (talk) 17:14, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Certainly not for ITNRegards, theTigerKing 17:15, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose- This was only a story in UK, because from what I could read, the only notable aspect was a British court case. Bzweebl (talk • contribs) 17:49, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose, per above.Egeymi (talk) 17:57, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose This was in the news in the US as comedy. Only his partisans will see "guy who wants to die tragically dies" as tragic. 18:42, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
Oppose ITN is not an obituary. More notable folks have died recently, and we didn't post them. Plus, this seems like domestic news to me. Cheers, Zaldax (talk) 18:49, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support Whilst meaning no offence, this proposal was poorly done. The notable part of this story is that Nicklinson's only options were to ask his family to break the law, to live a life that he described under oath as "unbearable", or to starve himself to death. I'm supporting because to my knowledge we have never had a story on euthanasia or the "right to die" debate, whereas from time to time we do run stories which relate to the likes of religion, sexuality, gender equality and capital punishment. —WFC— 19:49, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment in that case, Euthanasia_in_Australia should be updated and bolded. Right now there is no good article to promote. --IP98 (talk) 20:48, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Errrm, you have looked at some of the sources, haven't you? He lived and died in England. Kevin McE (talk) 21:17, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Sure did, and he sure did. When I went to assisted suicide, Australia was at the top of the list and I just went with it. Oops, that was dumb and embarrassing. --IP98 (talk) 00:02, 23 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
It just redirects to Locked-in syndrome. I'm all for posting this, but he should have his own article with a history, timeline, etc. --IP98 (talk) 00:02, 23 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed. If we've never done a story on the Right to Die debate, I may retract my opposition to posting this, but we really need a dedicated article before we put this on the Main Page. Cheers, Zaldax (talk) 13:14, 23 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Seemingly this is being poorly reported. From many news reports, I had assumed he died of illness. It would appear that he began refusing food from last week. --RA (talk) 12:44, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Well known for writing only one book? It's a good book...but is she en exceptional writer at the top of her game? I don't think so. World influence? Doesn't matter, she was almost only know at home. Also the article is very short. --Τασουλα (talk) 16:04, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose, not notable. Also, the adjective in the blurb "influential" is clear reflection of POV.Egeymi (talk) 16:22, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Not notable enough. Sorry to say but she hasn't won any credible award in her lifetime. Just wrote novels.Regards, theTigerKing 16:29, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose -sorry not notable enough for ITN.--BabbaQ (talk) 16:35, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Opppose - that book may be somewhat famous, but isn't world-renowned necessarily, and the author's death hasn't been making international news. Not notable enough for ITN. --Activism1234 16:37, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Strong oppose- She never even won an award. Bzweebl (talk • contribs) 16:50, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Em, she did. Several in fact. At least get your facts right. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.40.102.241 (talk) 16:56, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Which ones? Could you please throw light on them! The article mentions none award won.Regards, theTigerKing 17:18, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
From the article: "Carrie's War won the 1993 Phoenix Award from the Children's Literature Association (U.S.) as the best English-language children's book published twenty years earlier that did not win a major award." SpencerT♦C 22:18, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Does that mean to say that she won an award for books that didn't win an award? That reflects more negatively than positively on her. Bzweebl (talk • contribs) 22:43, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
This award is actually not a notable achievement. And awarded just one award even after writing so many books?Regards, theTigerKing 05:34, 23 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Unopposed I could see this if a good case were made in its favor. Let's have some sources quoted. This would go up if my suggestion in the Phyllis Diller nom for a one line bare-link recent deaths section were supported. μηδείς (talk) 18:45, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I think that "recent deaths links" is actually a really good idea. I strongly encourage you to propose that somewhere. Cheers, Zaldax (talk) 18:48, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose ITN is not an obituary. More notable folks have died recently, and we didn't post them. Cheers, Zaldax (talk) 18:48, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Russia sends a warning in reaction to what it perceives as threats by the United States, made yesterday. Russia still proposes to help negotiate a deadline to stop violence. (Reuters)(RIA Novosti)
Archbishop Charles J. Chaput of Philadelphia unveiles a new school system to be run by an independent Catholic foundation. The Faith in the Future Foundation will serve the archdiocese's high schools and special education programs. (Catholic News Agency)
Philippine President Benigno Aquino III declares national days of mourning with flags flying at half-mast with a state funeral to be held within several days. (Rappler)
Nominator's comments: important event --TarzanASG (talk) 10:19, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support, although I did not check its media popularity, it is notable for both the world economy and country's economy and the WTO.Egeymi (talk) 11:18, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support, this nomination should be uncontroversial. Thue (talk) 12:03, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support, of course. Nsk92 (talk) 12:12, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support: No question on notability. Is there anything more that we can add to the update? Chocolate Horlicks (talk) 14:13, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Posted. I've de-linked Economy of Russia because I don't think we should link almost the whole blurb. --BorgQueen (talk) 14:18, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Hmm... Only four hours of discussion.--WaltCip (talk) 14:44, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Do you have a substantive objection to the blurb that has been posted? --Jayron32 15:11, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Why is four hours of discussion not enough when there's that much unanimous support? – Muboshgu (talk) 15:48, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
We need to call a doctor if any discussion lasts longer than four hours. :P hbdragon88 (talk) 17:30, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Just came to nominate ?(and would thus support). But saw its already up. No qualms there, but does anyone see the voting hre per CONSENSUS which says it does not vote count but assess the quality of discusion. "In Soviet Russia, world trades you" + "ofcourse" + "this nomination should be uncontroversial" + "should be in ITN" + "easily ITN" + "straight forward" + (no comment whatsoever) + "No question on notability." (it is not ITNR, so there is clearly discussion). There were but 1/2 productive commetns of support, and as WaltClip noted, it should be discussed (mre so as its not ITNR)Lihaas (talk) 21:09, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Had someone opposed it, people would have had come out with plausible defense. The framing of the blurb made it an obvious contender. Kudos to the nominator of the news-event for framing it beautifully. Even now, nobody has come-up with a reason why it should be opposed. Regards, theTigerKing 05:29, 23 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
How do you expect this to be ITNR? It's not exactly a recurring event. Bzweebl (talk • contribs) 21:51, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
If nobody objects, what's there to discuss? – Muboshgu (talk) 00:27, 23 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Everybody agreed that it was notable. No-one could think of any plausible objections that may arise that needed to be pre-emptively countered. And I also want to place on record that "In Soviet Russia, world trades you" remains the best comment in this entire discussion. Chocolate Horlicks (talk) 03:13, 23 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's comments: Big event in Romania, follows a referundum to impeach him but he has now been reinstated and the referendum ruled invalid. Making some headlines on various international media outlets.
Support Very interesting in the political spectrum of SEastern/Central Europe and the world in general, I mean how many times do we see an impeachment overturned? --Τασουλα (talk) 23:47, 21 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support- A big surprise that is undoubtedly significant. This is certainly bigger than him being elected in a proper election, which would automatically posted. Just to clarify, was he ever out the job, or did the court stop it from happening? Bzweebl (talk • contribs) 01:05, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I think he was out because there was an acting president whose really pissed now. --Activism1234 01:10, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support. Think the article could do with a little reorganising though. I eventually found the update, but it wasn't easy. There's also this barely-updated article, just for info. Formerip (talk) 01:11, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, I updated it and put that one in the blurb instead. --Activism1234 03:14, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This was nominated on July 29. Posted and then pulled. Chocolate Horlicks (talk) 02:30, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
No, the impeachment was posted, then pulled because it was decided that we would wait for the court ruling to be posted. Really, one could argue that consensus for posting this already exists. Bzweebl (talk • contribs) 02:42, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Was gonna ask if ywe posted it the first time. Since it wasnt done as such think this shuold be posted.
Whats the status of prez at the moment now?Lihaas (talk) 03:47, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I think the government is going to officially approve this (confirmed that they will do it though, as they're required, it's just ceremonial) in a day or so, and then he'll be back, if they haven't already done this. --Activism1234 04:17, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose It was known at the time of the last nom that the result was not valid. I recall pointing out at the time that the lack of turnout was itself a result that had been campaigned for, and that encouraging voters not to turn up at the ballot box was a deliberate strategy. In effect this was a ballot where no matter which way you voted it had the net effect of voting the Pres out of office. That is reality, not some legal sleight of hand. Crispmuncher (talk) 04:32, 22 August 2012 (UTC).[reply]
Oppose. 88% votes YES so its clearly a great injustice to the Romanian people. This Turnout requirement didn't exist for 2007 impeachment Referendum. This law is totally ridiculous. The protests continue.- EugεnS¡m¡on(14) ® 05:50, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
That seems more of a personal reason to oppose this... Can you please clarify, as ITN says to do when you vote, why the subject isn't notable or shouldn't be mentioned on ITN? Thanks. --Activism1234 06:01, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Exactly, its best that we leave out value judgement while evaluating notability. Chocolate Horlicks (talk) 06:12, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - is not a personal opinion, is the opinion of 7.4 million people. Yes, illegal is notable but the subject is not, because there was not changes, in fact still remain the same person as president. - EugεnS¡m¡on(14) ® 06:54, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support wide international coverage, very unusual political situation in a country with a 20+ million population, and presumably a final step in the political chaos in the country. The so-called "injustice" to the people of Romania by the 9 judges makes it even more notable for ITN. Nergaal (talk) 07:32, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support (as already approved) on the basis that this had already been approved for posting in July but was pulled owing to the disputed outcome. Now that the outcome has been clarified, posting it now is no more than a re-post following a correction to something we already approved. Minor improvement to the blurb:
Support, very significant event with wide coverage.Egeymi (talk) 08:24, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support, per RA's comments above. Nsk92 (talk) 12:11, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support Should be in ITN considering the fact that it is/was making headlines in a large pocket of Europe.Regards, theTigerKing 13:22, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support support in some form. Careful with the blurb, could be more twists in the future. Regards, Sun Creator(talk) 14:31, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I have no problem with this being an "In The News" blurb, but I am very frustrated at the use of the phrase "invalidates a referendum". I have posted on the Main Page Talk and on the 2012 referendum article Talk about this. Saying "invalidates a referendum" implies that the Constitutional Court of Romania has an ultra vires power to invalidate referenda, and glosses over the fact that there is a public law in Romania, on the books since 2000 and amended more recently, which establishes the rules by which referenda are considered valid or invalid. It bothers me particularly because Romania is being portrayed as a country with no concern for rule of law, despite the fact that the law has been followed at every instance, both by those defending Băsescu and those opposing him. Please note also that the headlines of the articles originally used above to justify the blurb's adoption for use on the Main Page are: "Romanian court rules impeachment vote invalid", "Traian Basescu: Romanian impeachment vote ruled invalid", "Basescu reinstated as Romanian president", and "Romania's Rulers Cry Out against Basescu Return". Two of these headlines say "rules invalid" rather than "invalidates", and the other two do not use "invalidate" in the headline. Furthermore, those last two articles say this in the next few paragraphs: "Traian Basescu is set to return as Romania’s president after the Constitutional Court ruled that last month’s impeachment referendum was invalid", "Tuesday the Constitutional Court declared void the July 29 impeachment referendum against Basescu, based on finding that it is in fact true that less 50% of voters had participated." So none of these articles make the claim that the referendum was "invalidated" by the court! Three of them state that the court "ruled" it was invalid, and the remaining one references the terms of the actual law that was the basis of its judgment. Yet I was told when I raised this point on the 2012 referendum talk page that it was generally the case that this "invalidated" phrase is the phrase generally being used by the media. That appears to be false. Please change the wording of this blurb to read "declared invalid" in place of "invalidated", to make it clear that Romania is a country "of laws not men". Zachary Klaas (talk) 14:50, 23 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I find that to be quite the well-reasoned, considered, argument; I'd support that change. It's fairly minor change in wording, but as Zachary Klaas suggests, it drastically changes the meaning to more accurately convey the facts. Cheers, Zaldax (talk) 15:26, 23 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Just saw that the change has been made - much appreciated, thanks. Zachary Klaas (talk) 20:02, 23 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose This is a market fluctuation; nothing more. The "in history" business is easily dismissed when the devaluation of the dollar is accounted for: this is no Standard Oil. Crispmuncher (talk) 07:55, 21 August 2012 (UTC).[reply]
Oppose as above. This is a very nice press release and publicity burst for Apple; I'm not sure it's 'news' in its purest form. doktorbwordsdeeds 09:06, 21 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Trivial. Most valuable company of 2012 surpasses the value of Microsoft in 1999? Nice press release for Apple (so long as you don't mention the Microsoft context), but not actually significant. --217.75.8.215 (talk) 10:13, 21 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - Even if the figures were market-adjusted, this wouldn't be interesting. No actual event has occurred. AlexTiefling (talk) 11:44, 21 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose well this is decent news however market value is not a good stat to judge size of company. its mostly fake money till cashed in. unless they pile up that much cash, which would be lot more interesting news. -- Ashish-g55 13:26, 21 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
OpposeIf figures for Microsoft are adjusted to inflation, then $850 billion is the present day valuation of the Microsoft then.Regards, theTigerKing 14:28, 21 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose exactly per the above reasoning. If adjusted for inflation, other companies have been worth more. As Crispmuncher perfectly put it, "this is no Standard Oil." Cheers, Zaldax (talk) 14:51, 21 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - perhaps big news in tech world, but not ITN worthy. And isn't that unexpected either. --Activism1234 16:41, 21 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose not showing in the Google top 20 business stories today. Just same fan cruft for depraved apple fanbois. --IP98 (talk) 21:06, 21 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose It is not an appropriate.--Reality 05:44, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose not news, this is dated information.. Regards, Sun Creator(talk) 14:04, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Support Milestones are cool. m'encarta (t) 22:22, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
[Posted]Ethiopian PM dies
Article:Meles Zenawi (talk·history·tag) Blurb: After weeks of speculation about his death, Ethiopian Prime Minister Meles Zenawi dies at age 57. (Post) News source(s):1, 2, 3 Credits:
Nominator's comments: Top headline for BBC, Yahoo, and Al Jazeera, and will soon likely be for other outlets as well.
Support with further update. Death of a sitting head of state in extremely notable. – Connormah (talk) 05:46, 21 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I updated the article. --Activism1234 05:55, 21 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I think those tags at the top of the article have to go too. I don't have the time to do it myself, but IIRC we usually don't post until those types of issues are worked out. – Connormah (talk) 06:03, 21 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Two of the tags are from 2008 and 2009. Think I can just remove them or no? Open a talk page discussion on it? --Activism1234 06:04, 21 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I went through some sections and made it more neutral. I've gotta get some sleep now though, in case someone can take over... --Activism1234 06:29, 21 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Have clubbed the illness and death sections. Have also expanded the lead and removed the yellow tag. The orange tag for neutrality remains. Chocolate Horlicks (talk) 07:17, 21 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Are there any glaring POV issues? If not I'd suggest removing the neutrality tag. It's 4 years old and there's no discussion of it on the talk page.--Johnsemlak (talk) 07:33, 21 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah. Cant spot any glaring POV issues but I wont claim to be entirely familiar with all of the sub-topics covered in the page and its a pretty big article. I've opened a discussion in the article talk page. Chocolate Horlicks (talk) 07:54, 21 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I'm removing the tag. It's over 4 years old and there's been no discussion of POV on the talk page since. If we look at the article when the tag was placed, it was in a very different state.--Johnsemlak (talk) 08:08, 21 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support: Satisfies WP:ITN/DC #1. But yes, there are a couple of tags. Chocolate Horlicks (talk) 06:38, 21 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support It certainly meets all the related criteria.Egeymi (talk) 07:36, 21 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support I add my support to the comments above - a clear case of a nomination which should make it to the front page doktorbwordsdeeds 07:40, 21 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Ready to post when the tags are dealt with. --Tone 07:53, 21 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Very well, posting. --Tone 08:57, 21 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Postmortem support — Holy hell, this is a bolt from the blue! I was definitely not expecting the main page to announce Zenawi's death this morning. Very obvious posting, as he was the strongman of a country with over 80,000,000 people for at least a decade. Kurtis (talk) 11:47, 21 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
ROFL on the pun...but it asnt really a "bolt from the blue", the news reported as such with the church leaders death that he was near.
Anyways, can we merge this with the head of the church as both died in the smae week? And both are evidently notable, and more so in such close succession?
comment; having just read the page, there is one sentence on his death and another on his replacment. That is no where NEAR a sufficient up[date. Im in the process of reviewing.adding more. But these updates need to be seen BEFORE postingLihaas (talk) 03:50, 22 August 2012 (UTC)Lihaas (talk) 07:26, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Lots of deadlinks in the reference section! LugnutsAnd the horse 07:39, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
coment ive gone and done an update thats significant now.Lihaas (talk) 09:19, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, Lihaas, you're an angel! x --BorgQueen (talk) 13:44, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's comments: Not sure if the article I linked to should be updated or a different one. It needs updating. Also, this is a pretty prominent event in Mali after its coup, which garnered much international attention. It is a top story on the BBC.
Weak support On the BBC's front page, and minor mentions deep in the subsections for the New York Times, Al Jazeera, and Xinhua. A notable development in the ongoing struggle to keep Mali from becoming the next Somalia. Khazar2 (talk) 09:51, 21 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support — I think it's an important milestone for Mali as it recovers from a political crisis. Kurtis (talk) 11:50, 21 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Support A significant story for surebut it seems that coverage stopped rather quickly. It seems to be buried in subsections in most major news sources now.Update: I've changed my mind on this one; after digging deeper, this story's still receiving a good bit of attention. Cheers, Zaldax (talk) 15:00, 21 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Well, this should not be a problem, ITN stories often take some time to get on the Main page. However, I see no update in the coup's article, maybe somewhere else? --Tone 15:05, 21 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I'm going to update it right now, thanks for reminding me! --Activism1234 16:06, 21 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's comments: Dom Mintoff, who was a well known prime minister among many has passed away at the age of ninety-six. I know that he died of "old age" but from the news websites and other stories about him, it seems he was well liked by a lot of people. Oh, and it's even updated.
Oppose- Since he was a former prime minister, he doesn't meet DC#1. Bzweebl (talk • contribs) 03:40, 21 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You've managed to overlook the more relevant #2. Also #3 - in Malta anyway. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.40.102.241 (talk) 04:51, 21 August 2012
Oppose - per Bzweebl, not familiar with him and isn't a top headline on most media outlets I'm looking at. --Activism1234 03:52, 21 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Why don't you read about him instead of dismissing him because you're "not familar" with him? I was not familiar with him either. But he seems to have done a lot for his country. He has his own nickname and everything. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.40.102.241 (talk) 04:06, 21 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
That's great, and I'm happy for his country, but we're looking for internationally known politicians at ITN, not just country-centric. --Activism1234 04:30, 21 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
He's dead. Somehow I don't think "his country" is very happy. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.40.102.241 (talk) 05:03, 21 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Strong oppose: There are spaces for 216 political types on my imaginary list. As I acknowledge there, that isn't even enough for all current heads of state. A former PM of a country whose current Pres probably wouldn't qualify is beyond the realms of discretion. Crispmuncher (talk) 04:26, 21 August 2012 (UTC).[reply]
Oppose About twice as notable as the passing of any former mayor of Buffalo, NY, and about 1/100 as notable as the death of the Ethiopian patriarch. μηδείς (talk) 04:58, 21 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I see Guido was included a while ago. This guy probably has more, or at least as much. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.40.102.241 (talk) 05:01, 21 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I'm tempted to SNOW this now given there has been no support and only the IP nominator contesting that opinion. I'm about to retire now and I'll review it when I get up, but in the meantime it is something to consider. Crispmuncher (talk) 05:09, 21 August 2012 (UTC).[reply]
Strong oppose, former PM and as nominator pointed out he died of "old age".Egeymi (talk) 07:15, 21 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose; simply not a significant figure even if he was the PM of Malta.--Johnsemlak (talk) 07:25, 21 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Man dies of old age. In stark contrast to the nomination above, here's a case of a nominee which hasn't the notability we require for front page inclusion. Clear case of 'no' doktorbwordsdeeds 07:42, 21 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
In what way does he not meet the notability required for front page inclusion? Unfortunately he did die an old man but he seems to have done enough with his life to meet DC#2. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.40.102.241 (talk) 19:25, 21 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Support: I'm going against the tide here but from what I can read, he is considered the architect of Malta's freedom from British rule and was PM from 1955 to 1958 and then from 1971 to 1984. Thats a pretty long tenure. He's been given a state funeral by Malta - which has been done only for Guido de Marco so far. Malta remains a tiny country of only 400k people but he seems to be a top guy there. Second headline on the BBC Europe page. But I agree that valid concerns of ITN becoming more like an obituary weighs against this nomination. Chocolate Horlicks (talk) 07:43, 21 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose due to lack of prominent international coverage. In the BBC, but on a first pass, I couldn't find it in the New York Times, Al Jazeera, or Xinhua at all. Khazar2 (talk) 09:47, 21 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
New York Times[60] was included in original nom showing you didn't look through the facts presented: "To admirers he was the father of modern Malta" ... "he sought to integrate Malta into Britain, with a status like Northern Ireland's — having a legislature of its own but electing members to Parliament in Westminster and gaining access to British economic aid, military defense and other benefits. When Britain refused, Mr. Mintoff resigned as prime minister and began advocating full independence for Malta." Tripoli Post"Malta Mourns Its Greatest Ever Politician" ... "Malta is mourning the death of its best known statesman and politician" ... "The man described as a giant", "Malta's longest serving politician and one of its most controversial", "one of the founding fathers of the island" From the news coverage of his death he sounds like Malta's George Washington or James Madison. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.40.102.241 (talk) 19:21, 21 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support I too am going to go against the tide and support this nomination. The man has been described as "The Father of modern Malta"; Malta might not be the biggest of countries, but an accolade like that certainly deserves a mention. The arguments by the above ip and C.H. have swayed me. ITN may not be an obituary, but people responsible for a nation's independence (as well as two-time prime ministers) probably deserve a note. Cheers, Zaldax (talk) 19:27, 21 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
SupportFor the fact mentioned above. Let's not consider how he died. A prominent figure of the tiny nation. Regards, theTigerKing 17:24, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support Per comments above, the death of a one of the most important figures in a European Union country history is extremely notable. A much better encyclopedic topic many celebrities deaths and other other events that had little global impact like protests or flooding in a random country. I hope the opposers reconsider. Secretaccount 01:59, 23 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed. Can we give this another look? Cheers, Zaldax (talk) 13:53, 23 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose, mostly per Khazar. Obviously very significant within Malta, but not seeing the international significance. WizardmanOperation Big Bear 03:17, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
References
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