Wikipedia:Reference desk archive/July 2005 II

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A Shilgin Guinea[edit]

My ex-slave greatgrandfather passed down verbally that he was a Shilgin Guinea. I can find no reference to Shilgin. I thought it might be Shogun corrupted to Shilgin, but I could find nothing about a shogun Guinea. Does any one familiar with Guinea research have any idea of a name, place or tribe that sounds somewhat like Shilgin? Etta M Ladson July 11, 2005

Update: 3/06/11 I have recently learned via DNA analysi that my family is from Bioko, equatorial Guinea. My great grandfather was right on target. E.M.Ladson

I'm no expert on the area (try asking user:Mark Dingemanse maybe?) However, it's worth noting that Guinea in those times had a significantly larger sense than it does now - at one point it was a generic term for the whole of Black West Africa. As for Shilgin, the only name that's come to my mind so far is Sherbro, a tribe of Sierra Leone, but that's not that similar... Or there's the Arabic word Shergiyin "Easterners" (in a Bedouin accent). But nothing convincing comes to mind. Good luck! - Mustafaa 12:43, 11 July 2005 (UTC)
I've not very much time on my hands right now, but I'll nonetheless try look into this. The following article: Rodney, Walter (1969) Upper Guinea And The Significance Of The Origins Of Africans Enslaved In The New World, The Journal of Negro History, vol. LIV, no. 4, 327–345 looks like a good starting point. Etta, I can email you a fulltext version of this article if you contact me via the 'email this user' function. Regards, — mark 21:16, 11 July 2005 (UTC)
Found another good source (haven't got hold of it yet though): P.E.H. Hair (1967) 'An Ethnolinguistic Inventory of the Upper Guinea Coast before 1700', African Language Review, vol. 6. P.E.H. Hair is an important name if you want to dig into the history of Upper Guinea / West Africa during the Atlantic Slave Trade. — mark 22:15, 11 July 2005 (UTC)
A quick question - how did he pronounce Shilgin? I can see two or three possible ways, and if we know what the pronunciation was then we can take a guess at possible corruptions of the word. Shimgray 08:47, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

UK threat levels[edit]

On the site of BBC News, doing a search for "threat level" brings up several of the UK's national threat levels. I didn't think that there was such a thing. Could I please have a list of them in order and any other info you have. Thanks,--a student 07:35, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

Strangely, the Home Office says there is no such thing too. MyNameIsClare talk 12:13, 12 July 2005 (UTC)
Maybe they use a different wording like "danger" or something. GarrettTalk 13:05, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

The Police, the Cabinet Office and the Military all have different 'threat levels'. However, the definitions of these levels will not be disclosed to the public as they do not reflect the threat level to the general public. --Pigeonshouse 17:18, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

I have certainly seen colour-linked threat levels in one UK public building (the Patent Office in London). Black is the lowest level (no special risk), but I couldn't give you any more info. Maybe they are defined by the Metropolitan Police? Physchim62 19:21, 13 July 2005 (UTC)

I'm not surprised the UK has a more complex and less public system of alert levels than the U.S. Over here, we're apparently so stupid that we need a simple system using primary colors that tells the public (and the terrorists) everything one needs to know about imminent danger, including the fact that it's never anything but yellow or orange. Fortunately, other countries (and, I suspect, many U.S. federal, state, and local government agencies on the quiet) apparently live in the real world and are more concerned about actual data on threats. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 01:59, 14 July 2005 (UTC)
If you'd read BIKINI state, you'd know that it more similarly corresponds to Defense Condition, not the Homeland Security Advisory System (maybe that wasn't your implication, though), but I empathize anyways. ¦ Reisio 02:04, 2005 July 14 (UTC)
I work in the UK Civil Service (Defra) and the threat level is termed "State of alert" and is based on colours. If I remember correctly there are four or five different levels. There used to be an additional one, White, which meant "no terrorist threat" but this has been abolished (post 9-11 I think). I will double check before giving any more details, but I beleive that the names and broad descriptions of the states are not restricted, however what the current state of alert is, what that means in terms of security, etc and why the level is why it is are restricted to varying degrees. The state of alert should be posted in the public reception areas of goverment buildings, so that is the easiest way to find out the first bit of information - although the state of alert might be specific to that building. I beleive general states of alert are set by the Cabinet Office, but I'm not 100% certain on this. Thryduulf 11:43, 14 July 2005 (UTC)
Thryduulf, if you work for the Civil Service then you must realise that the definitions of the various alert status carry a protected marking and should not be divulged to the public. If you choose to divulge the definitions of the British Alert State system, you risk losing your job and could face prosecution by your employer, which you must realise is ultimately HM the Queen. On Monday I am going to report this particular page to the Security department of the department I work for, so that the references to the british alert systme can be removed. I really don't give a **** whether this is an encyclopedia or 'the totally hippy free internet' or whether our edits to this page are covered by the first amendment to the Constitution etc ad nauseum. You should not post them here.Pigeonshouse 19:11, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
I, however, don't work for the Civil Service (though I temped for the NHS a while back) but I do know how to use Google. The Department of Trade and Industry, in publicly available documents, explicitly describes one part of the threat system. [1], for the Oil and Gas Industry. -
The alert warning system consists of 4 stages of alert and provides protocols for a gradual build-up to a full scale crisis, although this system may vary from those adopted by industry, the police and Security Service. The 4 stages of alert are:
Red. ...
It is the responsibility of the Cabinet Office to declare the state of alert for the nation based upon information received from the authorities and government departments.
I await the DTI getting the takedown notices at the same time as us. What Thryduulf posted was, in fact, a very sensible summary - it exists, it is publicly known to exist (since you can go to gov't buildings and see the signs posted, and these have been reasonably publicised on eg the television news). Other than that, all he said was that he can't say what the definitions are, barring possibly that there might have been an "all-clear" one in the past. In fact, he explicitly stated that he wouldn't give further information without checking on his ability to make such comments, which does make me wonder quite why you're throwing around legal threats on behalf of the Crown so convincingly. Oh - and a wonderful set of strawman arguments you threw up at the end there. I'm impressed, truly I am. Shimgray 19:34, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
You have answered part of the information requested in the original question, perhaps it would have been better if google was used last week to find out that information, seeing as it's publicly known to exist. The definitions of the alert state system however, are not known to the public and details of what they mean shouldn't be given out and there seemed to be a threat of this happening. Perhaps I went in a bit strongly at the end there - I have a tendency, very occasionally to not think before I speak/type/write etc.
I apologise to Thryduulf as the end bit wasn't really aimed at you (even though I said 'you', perhaps I should have written 'they should not be posted here'), only first of all, although it may not have sounded like it, I didn't want you to lose your job over a web page(!) and second of all I envisaged what was going to happen next and did not fancy the idea of having to argue why I thought the definitions shouldn't be posted, because otherwise you get certain people screaming that because we are posting this on the internet that we can generally ignore certain principles.
Shimgray: I am not daft, although you seem to have formed an opinion of me in the twenty-four minutes of reading the post and adding what I assume intended as 'clever' high-brow witty insults to it. I do realise that the names of the colours are available to the public and that some government buildings do display the alert status in the lobby (although the guidance used to indicate otherwise, perhaps they have altered that guidance now). I have even seen a web page where the alert at that time has been quoted to the media. But the alert system in used in the civil service cannot be compared to the alert system used by the Department of Homeland Security to keep its citizens in control, they are for the use of the Cabinet Office to pass down to government buildings and are not the kind of thing that find themselves inside an encyclopaedia. Also, I think you intended to make the 'argument' personal at the end there. As this kind of behaviour normally pushes threaded discussions such as these further away from the subject matter, (I seem to remember that when Newsgroups were more popular, this happened all the time and the arguments basically boiled down to "I'm more intelligent than all of you, I have great debating skills, Pretentious, moi?" and "You are like Hitler" and "Free Speech") I can't see any reason why you felt you needed to bring it down to that level. Then again I suppose I shouldn't have posted the end bit that basically hinted at my presumption of the kind of argument that was bound to follow, as it became a self-fulfilling prophecy. Additionally, I would have thought that if your speciality is something to do with information law, as your user page seems to suggest, then you would dismiss the idea that I posted 'legal threats' and that you would already know the boundaries of what information can be given out and what can't. Pigeonshouse 06:05, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

By searching around for several hours, I managed to find some various systems of threat levels: the top secret national one (equivalent to the Homeland Security AS) goes, from most to least serious:

  • SEVERE-SPECIFIC (what we're on now)
  • LOW

I also found a system used by GCHQ, MI5 and MI6 alone (the BIKINI states only used by UK government depts):

  • HIGH
  • LOW

All this information is available on the websites of BBC News, The Times newspaper and The Cabinet Office - no Official Secrets Act problems, then!-- 06:46, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

When and how did Corporations get rights of individuals[edit]

This has been moved from the village pump proposal page. It was posted by an anonymous user. Superm401 | Talk 20:58, July 12, 2005 (UTC)

Hello All:

I am making a first post to Wikipedia.

The basic question I have concerns how the rights of corporations have changed since 1789. It is my understanding that corporations had charter rights of limited duration previous to a supreme court decision, I believe in a footnote changing the status to full individual rights of a citizen.

where would one go to find written commentary on this issue. -anon

What you are thinking of is the 1886 Supreme Court decision Santa Clara County v. Southern Pacific Railroad Company. [t]he Court does not wish to hear arguments on the question whether the provision of the 14th Amendment to the Constitution which forbids a State to deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws, applies to corporations. We are all of the opinion that it does. - Chief Justice Morrison Waite. Go here →Raul654 21:06, July 12, 2005 (UTC)
It's important to note that this opinion did not grant coporations the full individual rights of citizens, and corporations do not have those rights. The opinion considered corporations as people for the purposes of the due process clause of the 14th ammendment only. What this essentially means is that states cannot treat corporations arbitrarily and must proceed through due process in the same way they would with humans. James 00:36, July 19, 2005 (UTC)
This question is addressed (in a critical way) in great detail in the Canadian documentary The Corporation.
chocolateboy 21:48, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

Wikipedia itself has the articles Santa Clara County v. Southern Pacific Railroad and Corporate personhood. My personal advice would be to approach study of this issue carefully. It's easy to misunderstand what "legal personhood" is; many people who are critical of corporations seem to like to exaggerate the importance of this ruling and of this phrase. Corporations are not people, this ruling did not give them the full rights of "natural persons", and the courts do not treat the two as the same thing. There are many subsequent rulings that further define the artificial personhood rights of corporations, and it's probably worth looking into the details about exactly which rights natural people have that corporations do or do not have. The extention of rights to corporations does give them more power, and that's an important event, whether you are a critic who think that giving more power to corporations is a mistake, a supporter who thinks they should have greater protections against government regulation, or anyone else, for that matter. -- Beland 01:34, 13 July 2005 (UTC)

Bio on General Wesley Clarke[edit]

Karl Rove and July[edit]

Does anyone think that the timing of the probable scandal involving Rove and the White House fortuitously coincides with start silly season, when people tend to pay less attention to the news? Is it common for poilitical scandals to come out in July/August? --anon

Actually, October is probably the best month. See October surprise →Raul654 21:17, July 12, 2005 (UTC)
But you're assuming the power of when the scandal came out is in the power of those who want to harm Rove/Rebublicans. Is July/August the best time to release news if your aim is to have the news make as few waves as possible? Is there a precedent, and might there have been any controlling by either side of when this news came out?
It's true that news usually will make fewer waves in the summer. Remember that Chief of Staff Andrew Card said that the Bush administration started pushing the idea of attacking Iraq only in september 2002, because "from a marketing point of view, you don't introduce new products in August." [2] But it does seem unlikely that the White House can decide in this case when the prosecutors act; if they had such power over Fitzgerald, why wouldn't they just tell him to call the whole thing off? David Sneek 22:11, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

David is right -- in this case, it was a scandal that was slowly brewing for 2 years. What really broke it open ever-increasing pressure on the journalists Matt Cooper and Judith Miller (Miller is, by the way, a total sleazeball) that finally forced them to disclose their sources. THe administration didn't really have much control over that, because it's a judicial matter. →Raul654 22:45, July 12, 2005 (UTC)

To be factual, did Miller disclose her sources, or in fact is she not now in jail for refusing to do so? DavidH 21:30, July 13, 2005 (UTC)

She's in jail. David Sneek 06:29, 14 July 2005 (UTC)

Using Pictures from the Website[edit]

I am interested in using a specific photograph i found at wikipedia website for the cover of my novel. How could I get the rights/permission to do that?

  • Which image? It depends on the license it's been released under.--Pharos 22:14, 12 July 2005 (UTC)
  • If it's an image on a MediaWiki project site (like this one), just find its page (usually just by clicking on the image itself) and look for the copyright/use information. For example, this image's page explains that that image is in the public domain. If you don't see any information like that, try contacting the person that uploaded the image about the usage rights. A photograph of a book cover would probably fall under fair use in most cases, but does depend on how you plan to use it. ¦ Reisio 22:19, 2005 July 12 (UTC)
  • Many pictures here are also of course on the GNU Free Documentation License, and technically you don't really need to contact the uploader for that or PD images or other "free" licenses, but prudently one would anyway to ensure the license info is correct. Actually, I rather doubt putting an image on the cover of your novel that comes from another book cover would be considered fair use; in fact, it's probably legally questionable to use any "fair use" image on the cover of a book. BTW, what image are you so interested in, anyway?--Pharos 00:15, 13 July 2005 (UTC)
  • He never said he wanted a book cover image. He said he wanted an image to use on the cover of a book. They are very different. I myself am wondering whether he could use a GFDL image and license only the cover under the GFDL, without licensing the book under that license. Would it be "mere aggregation" or not? (that's what happens when you use licenses outside their original intention) Superm401 | Talk 00:38, July 13, 2005 (UTC)
    • I'm pretty sure you would license the cover under the GDFL but the rest of the content could be separately licensed. You are not required to spread the GDFL to your entire work, only the parts which are derived from GDFL sources, if I recall correctly. --Fastfission 19:51, 13 July 2005 (UTC)
      • However,I do believe that the entire content of the GFDL license must accompany a GFDL work [3] (on the internet it's different if you can hyperlink it). The editor might not be too pleased with adding several pages [4] of GFDL legalese to the back of the novel. — Asbestos | Talk 22:57, 14 July 2005 (UTC)

Student visa[edit]

I have a lodger. He is from Japan. He has a visa which allows him to work in France, where he studied for a year (he had a student visa). He wants to work in a charity shop. As this doesn't involve actually gettin income, is this possible? I hope not, otherwise he'll be lodging in my house all summer. I'm too kind to kick him out! He has no english bank account, nor national insurance number, but has a valid passport. Thanks, u ppl are sorting out lots of my major/minor problems --Sophiebristow 22:37, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

Sophie, we noticed that! It sounds like you don't really care whether this guy works or not, just that he moves on, right? I suggest you politely explain that you need the room for someone else in the near future (say, a relative of a friend to whom you are greatly indebted) and you need him to do you a favor and stick with his original plan to move on. Tell him when you need it by and don't waver. This saves face for both of you, and he doesn't have to feel evicted and unwanted unless he wants to, and you can still see him off nicely. The working rules really may not solve your problem, but we can! Glad to be of service. Let us know how it goes... alteripse 00:10, 13 July 2005 (UTC)

I don't see how you can consider yourself to have saved face when you negotiated a problem only through the use of deceit. Why don't you make the ethical choice and tell him you're uncomfortable with him staying longer? Superm401 | Talk 00:52, July 13, 2005 (UTC)

That was actually my first thought, but the more I thought about it, the more I changed my mind. Deceit for good as opposed to bad purposes is social grease. Brash honesty appeals when you are young, and you can certainly defend it idealistically, but as you go a little farther in life, you realize that social relationships and even your own responses to them are worth a little more art and care, and certain kinds of "dishonesty" are actually kinder than invarying brutal honesty. Make a "note to self" of this and re-read it in 20 years. I predict you will see this issue as less straightforward. Ultimately, though, this is "Sophie's choice," don't you think? alteripse 02:14, 13 July 2005 (UTC)

I don't see how it's a good purpose. The landlord is doing it for his own benefit. I don't really think the dishonesty in this case is kinder. It means you are rejecting them and must hide it. My solution, however, admits the real reason which probably has nothing to do with the particular lodger. The truth is easy enough to accept. Superm401 | Talk 12:32, July 13, 2005 (UTC)

(edit conflict, so there may be some overlap - this is what I wanted to reply to Superm401:) This is a good ethical argument. I used to think exactly like you. I now see it a bit softer. The point is: Does what I say respect and empower others? Honesty is only a means to that end. Many people feel, based on cultural background or personal preferences, more respected by a polite white lie than by blunt criticism. None of us has the nerve to try and please everyone. Telling someone that they don't please you means making a demand. (For most of us, and certainly for Asian people.) A demand for attention, time and energy which they may rather spend on other issues. If someone feels up to discussing it and wants to learn from you, of course, be honest – but don't force your criticism on them. Saving face is something you give to others, out of love and respect. — Sebastian (talk) 02:22, July 13, 2005 (UTC)

I don't see how it's a criticism just to tell someone you don't want them living in your house any more. It certainly doesn't demand correction. Also, when you lie, you're not giving someone the choice about whether they prefer the truth. It seems foolish to assume they do. Superm401 | Talk 12:32, July 13, 2005 (UTC)

I agree with the above that a white lie to get him to move on is probably in order if you really do want him to leave. In answer to your visa question, it's a different system, but when I was in Germany on a student visa I was only allowed to get paid for 20 hours of work a week. I don't think the restriction applied to nonpaying jobs at all. This rule of course did not stop almost everyone I know from getting paid under the table for extra work. So I wouldn't count on the visa issue saving you. --Laura Scudder | Talk 04:12, 13 July 2005 (UTC)

Laura made a good point: "if you really do want him to leave." That was my assumption. This is absolutely "Sophie's choice"! Thus, the white lie is no "deceit", because it doesn't mislead the guest into making a choice. If, however, there is something he can concretely do to make you change your mind, and you feel you can talk about it, then give him a chance by letting him know your concerns. — Sebastian (talk) 08:02, July 13, 2005 (UTC)

It is "deceit," because it misleads the guest into thinking there is a genuine requirement for him to leave. I must ask, "What is a Sophie's choice?" Is it related to the novel Sophie's Choice?Superm401 | Talk 12:32, July 13, 2005 (UTC)

help me find an internet flash cartoon site[edit]

I recall seeing this flash cartoon on the internet once quite a long time ago, and I was hoping to find it again, but without knowing what it's called, I'm having a hard time finding it, and was hoping I could get some help.

I can remember a couple of cartoons from the site. One was about some kind of satyr like creature who sleeps in a tree and gets into trouble with some weird creatures playing by the river. Another cartoon was about a hitchhiker who travels a long way at night with another traveller that he is convinced is a psychotic axe-murderer or something. One was about a farmer who gets the runs while on his tractor early in the morning. And a couple more of them were about magical or mythological creatures, like the one about the satyr. I don't think any of them was voiced.

And that's about all I can remember.

I don't think it's listed in List of Flash cartoon sites, though I will certainly add it if I can find it.

Does anyone know this cartoon? thanks -23:34, July 12, 2005 (UTC) ¦ Reisio 01:12, 2005 July 13 (UTC)

English Wikipedias for regional English varieties[edit]

Does it make any sense to start Wikipedias in different varieties of English, e.g. British English or American English, or is it uneconomical? Would such a thing make sense in the near or distant future? 2004-12-29T22:45Z 02:54, 13 July 2005 (UTC)

Speaking of Scots: In the text Lufe God abufe al and yi nychtbour as yi self, is the "y" a "þ"? — Sebastian (talk) 03:38, July 13, 2005 (UTC)
You might want to check out the Report an Recommends o the Scots Spellin Comatee, which is linked to from sco:Wikipedia:Spellin an grammar. --Laura Scudder | Talk 05:09, 13 July 2005 (UTC)
Of course, the language has changed. I didn't find the exact word "yi" or "thi". I got two contradicting clues: "thy" is in the spelling list, which points to "þi", and the grammar section lists "ye" as a pronoun, which hints to "yi". — Sebastian (talk) 08:25, July 13, 2005 (UTC)

It makes no sense. The goal of Wikipedia is to write an encyclopedia. Although there are many spoken dialect of English — some hardly mutually intelligible — all literate English speakers can read and write International English, the written language used on the English Wikipedia. So forking the English Wikipedia by dialect would result in pointless duplication of effort.

In the distant future, who know? Maybe written English will split into mutually unintelligible languages, as happened to Latin and Classical Chinese. Gdr 19:32, 13 July 2005 (UTC)

It's problematic to assert that someone can "read and write International English" when, as the article itself makes clear, such a concept is ideal and unactualized. On the other hand, it has a better chance of coming into actuality than its earlier fellow languages. After all, Latin and classical Chinese didn't have the Internet to all but eliminate the separation that allowed relatively isolated populations to develop their dialects and eventual language branches. If we are moving, however haphazardly, toward a single standard in the coming century, it would waste all the work to create dialectal versions of en:Wikipedia. But we're still a long way off. Jeff Q (talk) 02:32, 14 July 2005 (UTC)

You're confusing two senses of "International English" — you're talking about the de jure sense and I'm talking about the de facto sense. Gdr 15:26, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

-As most wikipedia visitors are american I think wiki should be in american english only and most people learning english outside english speaking countries learn american, also almost everyone understands american english as it is the most common form of english and there is no need for having wiki in many different forms of english.

Some pretty wild and unsubstantiated assertions there. Most people outside of America learn British English, not American. American English is the de facto English in South America, the Phillipines and Japan. The remainder of the world (with maybe one or two exceptions) learns British English (look up the British Empire to see why.)
Two - not everyone understands American English - I regularly have trouble with it and I am a university educated native speaker of English with no second language. (I'm not complaining either though).
Three - It was agreed in the early days of Wikipedia that each orthography would stand and that we would accept each as valid and interchangeable. Hence if I see "metre" spelt as "meter" I won't try and correct it.
Four - this kind of mindless, unsubstantiated americo-centrism is (in my opinion) a major part of why there is so much anti-americanism in the world. I know not all americans are like that, but the anger it arouses in other parts of the world is palpable. Manning 22:06, July 17, 2005 (UTC)

Symbol on John C. Frémont marker[edit]

Fremonts men marker.jpg Detail – the symbol is: 400

Can anyone identify the symbol on this marker for men lost in Colorado on one of Frémont's expeditions. I am only assuming that Fremont means John C. Frémont as the years match his period of exploration. --Laura Scudder | Talk 04:45, 13 July 2005 (UTC)

What a good mystery. I have no idea... aliens maybe? It is slightly possible that it is a trademark from either the stone or metal worker, but that seems unlikely since it is so large. Just a thought, no idea really. --Lord Voldemort 14:02, 13 July 2005 (UTC)
Just from guessing, and given the history, I would figure this was some sort of surveying symbol or maybe an emblem of the expedition. In research, I remarkably found an 1869 book, The Symbolism of Freemasonry with a opening dedication to John C. Frémont. I was, however, unable to find any common cartographic or Masonic symbol that matched this, not even on the quite interesting, if a bit esoteric, 18:12, 13 July 2005 (UTC)
  • At the risk of being overliteral, could it be a monogram for "TOLL"? Bovlb 19:20:14, 2005-07-13 (UTC)
    • If so it would make a good livestock brand design. I'm going to check old Colorado brands at the library and find out if that's it. --Laura Scudder | Talk 21:33, 14 July 2005 (UTC)

Maybe it's just a little cartoon fellow, put there to lighten the mood? ;-) --Fastfission 20:33, 13 July 2005 (UTC)

Any guess as to the date of the monument? My guess is that the symbol is a 20th century logo indicating that this monument is part of a series, perhaps a "history trail" designated by Colorado or federal parks departments. If so, you should be able to find other examples in that part of the state. Just a guess. alteripse 10:44, 14 July 2005 (UTC)

Could this even be right??? According to my research, Fremont wasn't in Colorado in 1845-46; he was in California. Here's what I found (whether or not this is whom they are referring to is unknown):
Fremont's group eventually reached Klamath Lake. But before they did, forty miles to the south, Fremont was attacked at night and two of Fremont's Delaware Indian companions were killed by Klamath tribesmen. This resulted in a brutal counter attack by Fremont and his group upon a Klamath village, resulting in many deaths.
I don't know if this makes any sense, or if it just makes us more confused, but if this is true, could it be some Delaware symbol? Who knows? --Lord Voldemort 14:46, 14 July 2005 (UTC)
Yeah, my assumption was based entirely on the fact that it's apparently supposed to be obvious who Fremont refers to, and I know he did cross the Rockies a few times in Colorado and Wyoming. I can't find any other plausible Fremont's though. --Laura Scudder | Talk 18:02, 14 July 2005 (UTC)
The plaque didn't look very aged. The trail is so out of the way (in the winter it's part of Eldora's nordic center, but in the summer it's pretty abandoned) and looking at my topo map it's on private land rather than in Roosevelt National Forest so I wouldn't think it's part of a particular series. --Laura Scudder | Talk 18:02, 14 July 2005 (UTC)

The following is an email I received to this question...

I checked with our Historic Preservation guru, Rich Koopmann, and he had the following to offer.
  • since the Toll family lived and operated a ranch here along S. Boulder Creek and up toward the ski area for years...could this be a livestock brand?
  • Not sure of the ties to John C. Fremont, but some possibilities that come to mind may be an association with John Q. Rollins (founder of Rollinsville) who built the first wagon road over the Continental Divide into Middle Park right thru this area. Later came the narrow guage railroad thru the Needles Eye tunnel and over Rollins Pass at Corona, and later the Moffat tunnel for the Denver Rio Grande Western railroad of today plus the water conveyance of west slope water into S. Boulder Creek. Could the symbol have some association with a railroad? There also were the Early Bird and Black Hills Mines toward the lower end of the road that could have some association.
  • A couple of resources come to mind who may have further information.....Dan Straight, who is the President of the Rollins Pass group trying to get the road re-opened thru the Neddles Eye Tunnel. He knows considrable amounts of historical information about that area (303)772-9475 , or Doc Teegarden, former Sheriff's Officer and POS volunteer, who has researched and located many of the remote and less known gravesites throughout Boulder County (303)494-6496. That is about all I can come up with for now.
Have you checked with the USFS? This sounds like it may be on their land. You can reach them at 303-541-2500, or
Tina Nielsen
Open Space Assistant
Boulder County Parks & Open Space
303-441-4958 (direct)
303-441-4954 (fax)

I hope this is helpful... you really piqued my curiousity on this one. I hope you can find your answers. Bye. --Lord Voldemort 14:21, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

For what it's worth, Fremont was in Colorado both years... [5]:
On his third expedition, John Charles Fremont, now a Brevet-Captain by Presidential appointment, came to Bent's Fort by way of the Santa Fe Trail, arriving there August 2, 1845. ... In 1846, now a private citizen, Fremont made a fourth trip to Colorado in the interests of a railroad. He did not go north of the Arkansas River this time. He made the attempt to cross the divide in winter against the warnings of trappers and mountaineers. One third of his men and all of his animals were lost. The survivors went down the Rio Grande to New Mexico. From there Fremont continued his journey to California. Shimgray 14:36, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
On examination, both of these seem to have been too far south for the Eldorada marker. Strange... Shimgray 14:39, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
I'm too lazy to find it again, but a map collection has one from his third expedition with the Eldora area mapped out, which led me to believe that he did pass through the area. Unfortunately I've been unsuccessful with this question as the Colorado brand books didn't have the symbol. --Laura Scudder | Talk 05:17, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

Stolen babies[edit]

Copied from Stolen Babies Bovlb 04:48:32, 2005-07-13 (UTC)

I would like to buy a copy of stolen babies starring Mary Tyler Moore as I think it has to do with my husband being "bought" by his grandmother in 1950 Memphis, Tennessee. Please tell me where I can get a copy. Thank You Cecily Miller 702-242-8178 —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talkcontribs) 2005-07-12 23:35:26 CDT
Try this link: ISBN 1418421758. That should take you to various online stores where you can order it. GarrettTalk 10:45, 13 July 2005 (UTC) --oops, sorry, the movie not the book! Well you can read about it at the Internet Movie Database. Notice the purchasing box thing in the top-right corner and you'll see Amazon stocks it, but only in the UK and Germany. You could also try some other online retailers. Hope that helps. GarrettTalk 10:50, 13 July 2005 (UTC)

organic chemistry[edit]

Explain the Electrophilic substitution reaction in Durene. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talkcontribs) 2005-07-12 23:55:45 CDT

An electrophile E+ will approach the nucleophilic durene (C6H2Me4), forming a pi-complex then a sigma complex. This will have both the E and the H attached to one carbon, and the remaining five carbons form a conjugated system with three resonance forms (the + going on carbons 1, 3, 5). This then loses H+ to a base such as water, forming C6HMe4E. Walkerma 04:22, 14 July 2005 (UTC)

Durene is particularly reactive towards electrophilic substitution because the four methyl groups are electon donating to the benzene ring. But I'm sure your professor explained this better than I did... Physchim62 12:09, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

news agencies[edit]

I just want to know the full list of all the news agency in the wholewide world and I also want to ask why are they located on hotels? and how do they function? what are the types of news agencies?

Do you mean news agencies like Reuters or Associated Press, or retailers who sell newspapers and magazines? If it's the former, there's an extensive, though not complete list in the news agency article. If it's the latter, there's no way we could possibly list them all. --Robert Merkel 06:53, 13 July 2005 (UTC)

US Supreme Court retirees[edit]

Which Justices of the supreme court retired at the same age or younger, than O'Conner?

anyone know? KeBe

This could be helpful. David Sneek 07:51, 13 July 2005 (UTC)

anti-climb paint[edit]

Does anti-climb paint work? Whenever I've seen walls with a warning sign about anti-climb paint, I always think that I can see little to hinder a potential climber, and the walls do not appear unusual in any way. How long does it last anyway? Jooler 10:59, 13 July 2005 (UTC)

I believe it's made to be extremely matt and thus super-slippery, meaning you'd easily lose your footing and no doubt fall and hurt yourself. Or maybe that's just what they want you to think! :)
I'd say it would last about as long as normal paint would, although with time it would no doubt lose its slickness just as textured paints lose their specks of sand (or whatever that stuff is).
Having never seen this paint in person that's only an educated guess.
You could always do a test yourself, just stick your shoe up against it and see how easily the sole slips on the surface. GarrettTalk 11:44, 13 July 2005 (UTC)
I was always under the impression that anticlimb paint never fully dried. So you are trying to climb up a liquid film. Theresa Knott (a tenth stroke) 16:53, 13 July 2005 (UTC)
This brief description supports what Theresa is saying, in addition to apparently rubbing off and marking the climber. --CVaneg 17:41, 13 July 2005 (UTC)
AIUI, in many cases (especially with things like bus stops) the paint isn't on the sides, but the tops. It's not intended to actually stop climbing, but to discourage it - it doesn't dry, and it's horribly sticky, so it gets on people's hands, clothing, &c &c... and you really won't want to do that twice. Shimgray 20:00, 14 July 2005 (UTC)

New use of motion Detectors[edit]

I am looking for the article on the news July 12, 2005 about a busy housewife trying to take care of her children in summer and her aged father in law. New tecnoligy now allows her to check up on him on line through the use of motion detectors which tells her how often he goes into the bathroom, if he takes his medications, etc. I was half way through the archives when I was closed out is there any way I can find out more about this topic? Thank you Pauline Spaulding 703-820-3117

Was this it? David Sneek 16:54, 13 July 2005 (UTC)

Identify this bridge[edit]

(image changed to link beacuse it contains two topless women) This is the image. (Providing a link to the image in case anyone else wants to check the bridge (or the women, I guess) out.) -- Essjay · Talk 17:32, July 13, 2005 (UTC)

What is the name of this bridge? Broonee 17:17, 13 July 2005 (UTC)

Sorry, I think I'm going to err on the side of conservativeness and remove that picture for now. There are lots of people who use the reference desk. --HappyCamper 17:24, 13 July 2005 (UTC),-122.896317&spn=0.007767,0.010009&t=k&hl=en,-122.894268&spn=0.005074,0.010009&hl=en Looks highly likely that's it. ¦ Reisio 17:27, 2005 July 13 (UTC)
FYI, It's called the Vancouver Skybridge and it crosses the Fraser River between New Westminister and Surrey. Robojames 17:36, 13 July 2005 (UTC)
Thanks guys you are so cool. Thanks! Changing image back to link since, as stated above, image contains nudity. Broonee 19:26, 13 July 2005 (UTC) (Image changed to link by User:Dismas 13 July, 2005 sometime UTC
Feel free to come back with any similar such images later on...I jest, I jest. In honesty, those girls don't even look legal to mai :P Sherurcij 08:03, July 17, 2005 (UTC)

The "Italian Unabomber"[edit]

What a strange story, and more strange as it is so hard to research.

It seems that since 1994 a madman has been planting bombs in common everyday objects in Northern Italy. He may be trying specifically to hurt children. When I heard about it, I did some research and started a page Italian Unabomber, in the hope that others would know more than I do. No such luck.

The problem is there is little coverage of it in the American/British press, and the stories I do find refer back to other events they do not fully describe.

Anyone out there know about this guy? Paul, in Saudi 17:52, 13 July 2005 (UTC)

It's likely the IT wikipedia will either have a page about him or that the folks there will know. You might like to consider posting (in simple english) on it:Wikipedia:Bar (their Village Pump), asking the IT ambassador user:Fantasy(it:Utente:Fantasy) to help, or enlisting the help of italian speaking en.wikipedia users listed at Category:User it. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 20:34, July 13, 2005 (UTC)
Done, I have sent a note to Fantasy. Paul, in Saudi 15:21, 14 July 2005 (UTC)

The movie "Protocol"[edit]

Does anyone know the name of the Arab country in the movie Protocol starring Goldie Hawn? Tavilis 19:01, 13 July 2005 (UTC)

According to IMDB, Tunisia - there is also listed a production manager for Tunisia, so I'd say that's a safe bet. ¦ Reisio 22:29, 2005 July 13 (UTC)
Where it is filmed != where it takes place. They could be the same, but they don't have to be. Superm401 | Talk 22:41, July 13, 2005 (UTC)


I have a new Dell Inspiron 5160, that came installed with win xp home and a whole lot of spyware crap from Dell. I have a licensed copy of win 2k pro with service packs out the wazzoo. Would I be better off uninstalling xp and putting 2k pro on it? Would it be faster? Would there be any functionality I would loose? Thanks!

The spyware can be removed pretty easily. I've always thought XP seemed significantly quicker than 2K, but that's just an anecdotal account. --Fastfission 20:17, 13 July 2005 (UTC)
I would stick with XP (well, really I'd install Linux, but you probably won't), but install it fresh from a copy Dell hasn't touched. ¦ Reisio 22:31, 2005 July 13 (UTC)
I agree: the best solution is to use neither and install Linux on your laptop. I suggest this because you obviously concerned about security, and wish to be in control of your own computer. For a step-by-step guide for how this is done look at — these links [6], [7] and [8] demonstrate the principle with different flavours of Linux. --Gareth Hughes 14:26, 14 July 2005 (UTC)
I agree that a flavour of GNU/Linux is the best solution - but I'd hesistate to recommend it to someone without a few geek points. Also, there are a few gotchas, like lack of webcam support in instant messaging programs jamesgibbon 17:23, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

Whistler's Mother[edit]

It looks like James McNeill was the artist of Whistler's Mother. But I have a print of Whistler's Mother, with copyright of Samuel Schmitz N.Y. Do you have any information on the artist Samuel Schmitz? Do you have any idea how old the portrait would be? --anon

Please see Whistler's Mother; it was painted by James McNeill Whistler of his mother Anna McNeill Whistler in 1871. Samuel Schmitz is presumably the company that made the print; it cannot legitimately claim copyright in the U.S. on a reproduction of a public domain artwork (see Bridgeman Art Library v. Corel Corp.).--Pharos 20:54, 13 July 2005 (UTC)

  • Well, it depends on when they made the print whether they thought they could claim the copyright or not. It might also depend on the type of print it is (if it is strictly photographic, then it certainly would not create a new copyright, however if it was with a more "artistic" form, such as an engraving, it could be more complicated). --Fastfission 21:27, 13 July 2005 (UTC)
Also, in the interest of complete accuracy, the actual name of the painting (according to Wikipedia) is "Arrangement in Grey and Black: The Artist's Mother" DavidH 21:38, July 13, 2005 (UTC)
  • Yes, and it's interesting why that is! I hadn't thought much about the painting until I read the Wikipedia article in a response to this question -- it's really quite interesting that the entire point of it was that it wasn't supposed to be a "portrait", but rather just an "arrangement". The painting has gained a lot of respect in my eyes. --Fastfission 01:01, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

care of hudsons bay company point blanket[edit]

please tell me how i should wash my point blanket. signed julian

Revolving Doors[edit]

What advantages do revolving doors have over normal ones? The article mentions that they can installed to minimize heat loss. However, I would think a normal door would do a better job of that. Also, it claims security is one factor, but many revolving doors are permanently unlocked. What other theories or facts do you have about them? Superm401 | Talk 22:06, July 13, 2005 (UTC)

Well, IMO, revolving doors increase the efficiency and flow of human traffic. One (normal) revolving door can have four people at once, and serves both entering and exiting traffic. Meanwhile, hinge doors usually only serve one direction. Thus, it is more efficient to have revolving doors rather than hinge doors. Hope this helps! Flcelloguy | A note? | Desk 22:10, 13 July 2005 (UTC)
I suppose that's right. I guess I've seen too many situations when there wasn't a large flow of traffic and revolving doors actually slowed people significantly. I can understand how much time could be saved in a high-flow environment, though. Superm401 | Talk 22:37, July 13, 2005 (UTC)
I think the genesis of revolving doors was high-rise buildings, which my memory tells me are or were associated with differential air pressures at different heights, which can lead to a tendency to draw air in or expel it at ground level ... a revolving door does not care about such things; whereas hinged doors can be moved by ... indeed, for whatever reason, I thought revolving doors were an enabling technology. But I could be wrong. Memory eh? Who'd trust it? Meanwhile the diverse answers you might get for this question bring to mind Call My Bluff. But I see that airlock has a passing mention of revolving doors. And a little googling brings up this article which talks about differential air pressures but in the context of keeping cold air out. More generally, they seem to be a good thing for keeping a controlled environment isolated from the outsider world. Try this google query for some more. --Tagishsimon (talk)
The air pressure comment seems to be a valid possibility. However, cold air can be brought in through revolving doors fine, so that part seems incorrect. Anyway, both are insufficient because revolving doors are used in many one floor buildings as well. Superm401 | Talk 22:37, July 13, 2005 (UTC)
Revolving doors also save money by keeping in air conditioned air in the summer, and reducing heat loss during winter. --HappyCamper 22:27, 13 July 2005 (UTC)
I simply don't see how this is true. There is still air flow. Superm401 | Talk 22:37, July 13, 2005 (UTC)
An exterior revolving door setup has walls around 2 opposing quarters of its perimeter [9]. If you are passing through the system, the "door" in front of you will leave contact with the wall of the system as the "door" behind you makes contact. There is never a complete path for air to flow between inside to outside. Only the parcels of air actually inside the door will be exchanged. -- Cyrius| 22:56, 13 July 2005 (UTC)
I already knew that. As you said, the air in the chambers is exchanged. I think that is about the air that would be exchanged because of the opening of a normal door. Do you disagree? Superm401 | Talk 23:26, July 13, 2005 (UTC)
When you open a normal door the difference in air pressure can cause a wind to flow in and up the lift shafts. I've hears that it can be so bad that it's difficult to close the door. Theresa Knott (a tenth stroke) 00:01, 14 July 2005 (UTC)
And a normal door in a high traffic building would be open almoste all the time. EnSamulili 12:21, 14 July 2005 (UTC)
In summary: yes, each trip through a revolving door may exchange one "parcel" of air, but a steady breeze through an open, conventional door could exchange much more air than that. Thus the efficiency claim. Steve Summit 22:13, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
Also, with respect to the air pressure claim: there's a reasonably well-known story at MIT that when the 20-story Green Building (building 54) first opened, an unexpected wind-tunnel Bernoulli effect at the base of the building meant that the (conventional) doors couldn't be opened if there was ay significant wind blowing, and people had to enter and exit via the basement tunnels to adjacent buildigs, until revolving doors could be retrofitted. Steve Summit 22:21, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
Security: The hinges aren't right there to play with as with normal doors. If you manage to get through a normal door, you're home free - with a revolving door you may still have another "door" to go through. ¦ Reisio 23:11, 2005 July 13 (UTC)
As I said, many are permanently unlocked. Superm401 | Talk 23:26, July 13, 2005 (UTC)
There's more security even when they're unlocked - it takes longer to get through them to the other side. ¦ Reisio 23:40, 2005 July 13 (UTC)
But even if that is security, why would a company want that? Superm401 | Talk 23:46, July 13, 2005 (UTC)
Sorry, but are you really asking why a company would want security? ¦ Reisio 02:07, 2005 July 14 (UTC)
NO. I am really asking why a company would want "security" that only entails slowing down customers entering to transact while the business is open. Superm401 | Talk 03:38, July 14, 2005 (UTC)
Simple - it doesn't slow them from entering. It takes longer to get from outside to inside, not to actually cross the area. When you open a normal door, you are immediately accessing a new area. When you're using a revolving door, you are not. As for actually going from point A to point C with door B somewhere in the middle, a revolving door probably decreases total travel time. ¦ Reisio 12:36, 2005 July 14 (UTC)
Why would the company want it to "take longer to get from outside to inside" while they are open? Superm401 | Talk 12:51, July 14, 2005 (UTC)
You're missing the point. It's not that it takes longer to get inside, it's that the transition from being outside to being inside is longer. The only situation in which this might actually hamper efficiency would be if all business inside were done within a few feet of the doors...and even then it'd probably still be more efficient to use revolving doors. ¦ Reisio 15:02, 2005 July 14 (UTC)
I agree with Flcelloguy. The problem with standard doors is that when foot traffic increases, you have a situation where people get in each others' way and are constantly trying to push past each other. With revolving doors, the directions of traffic are well defined and while a given individual may take longer to get in or out, the overall throughput is probably higher --CVaneg 23:20, 13 July 2005 (UTC)
When a hinged door is open there is a direct path for wind to enter at high speed, and wind can blow a hinged door open or hold it shut. In high traffic places even two sets of swing doors don't help because often both sets will be open at once. Revolving doors provide no path for wind because at least one doorseal is in contact with the "jamb" at all times, and because they have equal areas all around their point of revolution, no amount of differential pressure will cause or prevent rotation. Sure a finite amount of air is exchanged with each person that passes but this is minor; with no wind behind it, most of the air probably keeps rotating with the door. For security, I believe the chief advantage is the difficulty of rapid egress of fleeing felons; a regular door can be held open by an accomplice, but a revolving door is a much less appealing getaway channel. The mention of no exposed hinges (and perhaps a more easily secured locking mechanism) also rings true. The bit about two-way traffic I think is less clear; larger revolving doors take as much lateral space as two normal doors (which could be allocated to "in" and "out" directions) and with smaller revolving doors it's hard to enter the same chamber that someone is leaving, so with constant traffic in one direction the backchannel goes unused. Sharkford 15:24, July 14, 2005 (UTC)
In answer to several questions about security, in day and age, with a regular door someone can walk up to an open door, throw a bomb inside and run. That's a lot more difficult with a revolving door. DJ Clayworth 17:01, 14 July 2005 (UTC)
I added a history section, quoting from the original patent the advantages cited by the author. Samw 02:29, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

Shoreline of the Continental United States[edit]

Sorry for the questions in quick succession, but what is the length of the shoreline of the continental United States, excluding Alaska and Hawaii? Superm401 | Talk 23:29, July 13, 2005 (UTC)

Please verify with a source other than the CIA World Factbook. Superm401 | Talk 23:32, July 13, 2005 (UTC)
infinity Theresa Knott (a tenth stroke) 00:04, 14 July 2005 (UTC)
Thanks. I was well aware of that paper, but as you know, that does not answer my question. Superm401 | Talk 03:35, July 14, 2005 (UTC)

Then the answer comes down to what length of yardstick do you use. Unless I misunderstood when I asked the last time, no one had a good answer. Also part of the game is what criteria do you use for excluding bays, river mouths, etc. - Taxman Talk 03:52, July 14, 2005 (UTC)

I understand all that. Nevertheless, estimates have been made using standard procedure. Superm401 | Talk 04:02, July 14, 2005 (UTC)

In 1939-40, using the most accurate charts then available, NOAA found the shorelines to be 28,673, 17,141, and 3,863 miles for the Atlantic, Gulf, and Pacific coasts respectively [10] →Raul654 03:57, July 14, 2005 (UTC)

Thank you. Superm401 | Talk 04:02, July 14, 2005 (UTC)
This table gives two sets of figures, broken down by state, from the NOAA. It refers to them as "General Coastline" and "Tidal Shoreline". Difference in definitions is explained at the bottom of the table - roughly, one is measured with a unit of 30 minutes of latitude, the other is measured with a much smaller unit of around 100 feet. Differences are very large - for many states, Tidal Shoreline is an order of magnitude larger than General Coastline. Connecticut and Pennsylvania have no General Coastline but do have Tidal Shoreline. If you definitely mean shoreline rather than coastline then you probably want the larger set of figures. Gandalf61 10:33, July 14, 2005 (UTC)

See How Long Is the Coast of Britain? Statistical Self-Similarity and Fractional Dimension It applies to any coast or shore line. 08:47, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

Name of a confessional alcove[edit]

It's my understanding that modern Catholics use a two-chamber booth with a screened window as a confessional, for confessing their sins. In the film The Seventh Seal (1957), the medieval knight uses an alcove-like area with a screened window to another room in the church for the same purpose. Is (or was) this also called a confessional, or does/did it have a different name? Is there a Latin name for either/both? Thanks in advance for any information. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 00:15, 14 July 2005 (UTC)

Perhaps what the movie depicted was a narthex (although I don't know if confession was ever taken through the screen of a narthex). Take a look at that article and see if it describes what the movie shows. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 00:24, July 14, 2005 (UTC)
Based on the external shot of the church, and the previous scene's display of a separate entrance hall (where the squire talks to a man painting a mural on the wall), the knight appears to be in the church proper, in a hall that looks like a nave reduced to small-church size, although without aisles on either side — just walls, statues, and an alcove. Its most prominent feature is a hanging statue of Jesus on the cross over a structure that might be a private altar. It doesn't seem very narthex-like, although I have no great experience with Catholic churches to know. The alcove is just to the left (when facing Jesus), with a life-sized Greek statue to each side. The priest's room is separated from the alcove by a screened window. The alcove is rather like a niche, but without a statue inside. I can't imagine what purpose this alcove would have other than for confessions, although it's not particularly hard to see through the screen. I was hoping Cathedral diagram might shed some light on the subject, but it's a fairly useless article without the images that were its obvious origin. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 03:12, 14 July 2005 (UTC)
I don't know about the historical aspect (I'm not a historian) but many modern Catholic parishes no longer use the booth-style confessional. They use "reconciliation rooms" instead, which offer two options: face-to-face confession where the priest and parishoner sit face to face and hold a conversation, or anonymous, where there is a large screen between the chairs, or the priest and parishoner sit back to back. Anonymous confession must always be available, as it is up to the parishoner to decide whether to reveal his/her identity. -- Essjay · Talk 00:30, July 14, 2005 (UTC)
There is of course the possibility that the film's director, Ingmar Bergman, took some liberties for dramatic purposes. With a screened window, could the knight have recognized Death on the other side? Or maybe Bergman, who is from a lutheran background, simply didn't know what was accurate. (He also doesn't appear to be an expert chess player.) David Sneek 07:01, 14 July 2005 (UTC)

Webster Episode Question[edit]

Can anyone remember the plot of the episode 28 "Moving Out" of the TV show Webster. I recall that the family moves into a new house and discover secret passageways? Particularly, why were the passageways there, and what was up with the little girl (possible the ghost of the daughter of the old owners of the house) in there. I can't remember what the deal was. Google is no use. I really would appreciate any help.

I'd refer you to the episode page at (formerly TV Tome), but they seem to be short of details. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 08:04, 14 July 2005 (UTC)
Oh, it's been so long since I've seen Webster. They had to move out of their apartment because Webster set it on fire--he'd been playing with his chemistry set when George and Katherine told him not too and he hid it in his closet. The couple they moved in with had a daughter who had run away and not been seen for a decade or two. The father had built the passages for his daughter--one went from behind the grandfather clock in the parlor up to her room, as I recall--and they had kept the passages and her room exactly as is all these years. Why they wanted tenants, I don't recall but it's been at least a decade since I've seen Webster. PedanticallySpeaking 19:24, July 14, 2005 (UTC)

1978 LotR Aragorn actor[edit]

With all the new interest in The Lord of the Rings I am still very much a fan of the 1978 Bakshi production and the actor who was rotoscoped as Aragorn. I know the voice was John Hirt ..very nice, very silky...but the actor whose face is so expressive is lost! Can you find out for me who this man was/is or if he was entirely invented?


My initial research turned up no handy list of rotoscoped "actors". Best I could come up with quickly was the common opinion that Aragorn seemed to be remade as a Native American. IMDb doesn't mention it in Trivia, but they do have 233 User Comments that I don't have time to sift through at the moment. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 08:21, 14 July 2005 (UTC)
He may be one of the men listed for "Stunts". I remember watching a biography which the director for The Lord of the rings (1978) was involved in, and he commented on how the stunt men had to be taught how to act in certain parts. ¦ Reisio 15:08, 2005 July 14 (UTC)

A child's right to His natural Father[edit]

I'm in a court battle. I believe it may go to The Supreme Court of Tennessee. I need to know the Link between Fundamental right's and the right of the natural father, The child's right to a father-child relationship and the right of a natural father to be involved in the rearing of his child.

Thank You, S.R. Bradford

Please refer all factual questions to the reference desk. But for the record, I would hire an attorney or lawyer to deal with a complex case like this. Flcelloguy | A note? | Desk 22:14, 13 July 2005 (UTC)

I moved this from Help desk. We might be able to add a little. alteripse 10:49, 14 July 2005 (UTC)

Your questions sound sketchy at best - tell us what the actual case is and what both sides are after and maybe some of us can offer some advice...assuming you're on the right side. ¦ Reisio 11:23, 2005 July 14 (UTC)

Your question, about relationship of fundamental rights and rights of natural father is essentially a philosophical question rather than a technical legal question because there is no "code of fundamental rights." A philosophical answer would be something like this: There is no such thing as a fundamental right. All rights are simply social consensus with varying degrees of universal acceptance and codification by governing authority and varying mechanisms of enforcement and recourse... I have a strong suspicion that that is not what you wanted, is it? The first, most difficult step, is to understand that justice is not the issue, but law. What you need is a lawyer to tell you what your legally enforceable rights are. These consist of what is written in the statutes of your state (I'm assuming US, where family laws are all state laws-- if you live elsewhere the laws may be national or local) as modified by how the statutes are currently being enforced by family courts and the police. Both can vary by locale and time. It is a lawyer's job to know these things and assist you in enforcing your rights. and you need an expert manipulator of the law (an attorney), not a philosopher of justice. Good luck. alteripse 12:14, 14 July 2005 (UTC)

  • In case you don't already know of them, Fathers 4 Justice is a world-wide campaigning group involved in precisely the questions you're asking. I expect that if you contact them they'd be able to give you better legal advice and describe existing precedents better than we can. — Asbestos | Talk 12:21, 14 July 2005 (UTC)

Automatic computer restart[edit]

I run experiments on my computer and, as such, I often need to keep it on for 48 hours or more at a time. Yesterday I set up a new experiment to be run. This morning I woke to the cheerful tune of a re-starting Windows computer. I lept out of bed and saw the little bubble telling me proudly that Windows had automatically downloaded an "important upgrade" and had automatically re-started.

Natually I've just lost a large amount of work because of this. How do I tell my computer (WinXP) to never, under any circumstances, turn off or restart without my permission?

Thanks, — Asbestos | Talk 07:48, 14 July 2005 (UTC)

Go to the "Automatic Updates" section in "Control Panel" and select either option 2 or option 3. -- Essjay · Talk 07:54, July 14, 2005 (UTC)
Thanks very much. I must say I disapprove of the increasing autonomy of modern computers. They need to learn how to do what they're told. Give 'em and inch...
Anyway, thanks. — Asbestos | Talk 08:18, 14 July 2005 (UTC)
This makes me nostalgic for my days as a Unix admin, when an unexpected design flaw caused our systems to reboot because they would run for so long that their internal clock tick counter would overflow (6+ months). I wish Microsoft would think of reliability and uptime in these terms. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 08:27, 14 July 2005 (UTC)
I don't care much for Microsoft Windows, but I doubt it did not do what it was told. It's your responsibility to check settings for things you enable and make sure they're how you like - especially when you're dealing with evil software from Microsoft. :p ¦ Reisio 11:26, 2005 July 14 (UTC)
I was being ironic, but in any case it's actually a serious criticism: most people would look baffled if you told them that a computer's default setting was to randomly restart when it felt like it, without asking you if you wanted your work saved. The idea that you should be required to change that default setting without even knowing it exists, when that setting can result in disasterous effects, is ludicruous. This is a symptom of a growing amount of autonomy in modern OS's such as Windows, where they assume they know what you plan on doing with your computer and try to "help" you in ways that are usually not helpful. — Asbestos | Talk 11:36, 14 July 2005 (UTC)
I would agree that forcing people to at least look at a configuration instead of just deciding defaults for them is probably better in the end, but you are after all using Windows...what did you expect. ¦ Reisio 11:45, 2005 July 14 (UTC)
They only do this because they assume the lowest common denominator, which requires updates to be automatically installed if viruses like Sasser aren't going to slow down the whole internet every few months. (I don't blame Microsoft for the viruses -- most of them are the result of user mistakes/ignorance, not by any necessary flaws in system integrity) Of course, it's an annoying "feature" for someone who doesn't require such ham-handed hand-holding (how's that for a mixed metaphor?). --Fastfission 22:01, 15 July 2005 (UTC)


why is it that people who eats faster, tends to be bigger in size???

Perhaps because they eat more food before they realize they are full. I believe it takes twenty mins for the body to recognize that it is full; if one person eats twice as fast as another person with the same "capacity", in theory, the faster eater could eat twice as much food as the slower eater before they realized they were full. The extra intake would render as extra weight, unless burned off. But, I am not a biologist/nutritionist/scientist. -- Essjay · Talk 09:10, July 14, 2005 (UTC)

Israeli-Egyptian border[edit]

I have wondered before as to why the Israeli-Egyptian border is visible from space. the colour of Israel appears darker, see [11]. First I thought it could be due to irrigation, but that seems unlikely, because the Israelis probably wouldn't irrigate the entire desert. I've also thought that maybe it's an artefact of composite saellite images, but I've seen the same effect on arial photography. Does anybody have an explanation for this? dab () 08:57, 14 July 2005 (UTC)

I'd assume the water/land management notion. ¦ Reisio 11:31, 2005 July 14 (UTC)
Are you sure that isn't just a picture artifact? Maybe from compositing different pictures into one image? It looks suspiciously straight to be related to actual ground. DJ Clayworth 16:06, 14 July 2005 (UTC)
I believe that it is indeed an artifact, probably from having images taken at different times of the day. See for instance this image of Moscow and this one of Edinburgh, and note the section of a different color on the far left.
If the border of the change in color in your image does indeed correspond to the Israeli-Egyptian border, it could well be that the original images were cut along political boundaries. — Asbestos | Talk 16:47, 14 July 2005 (UTC)
I think it's a real thing, and not an artifact of image montageing. Here's why I think that is the case:
  • If you follow the line into the mountains, it zigzags and follows the border. It doesn't extend at all into the sea. This discounts it being an artifact of automatic montaging.
  • I spend a lot of time looking at landsat 7 imagery through worldwind, and I've never seen montageing done on a politcal boundary. It's usually done on lat/long lines (sometimes as little blocks, generally as large blocks) and occasionally as straight lines at an angle. I've never seen an irregular one, and certainly never a political one
  • Using NASA World Wind I zoomed in on the border, and on a definate montage line elsewhere in Sinai. The definite montage line shows clear evidence of pixelation, but the border area doesn't
  • In close, the border (and the dark/light line) isn't even terribly straight. It wobbles a bit with the gentle relief, and there are two lighter coloured lines along it (either ditches or fences or security roads).
  • The darker colour isn't entirely confined to Israel - it seems to haltingly extend into Egypt, as if something were blowing or growing over from israel. And the same is true the other way around too. Look at this terrasever/globe explorer image and you see that close up the delineation between colours doesn't follow a line but is instead a continuum.
  • The same line shows up in Landsat 7, blue perl and globe explorer images. Blue Pearl in particular has been carefully manually adjusted to remove all effects of weather, time-of-photography and montage effects. I don't believe the Blue Pearl people would drop such a clanger, when they did an excellent job of the rest of the world.
Okay, so now I've concluded what it's not, I'm not so sure what it is:
  • It's not a function of macro terrain (i.e. that border doesn't appear to be a major ridgeline running across the desert - with WorldWind's 3d exageration jacked up to maximum it still looks dead flat (whereas the neighbouring mountains dont).
  • It's not a major geological formation (like a fault). Its line doesn't show changes in the coastline or in the mountains
So I guess it's vegetation, albeit at a pretty low level. Both sides of the border (south of the heavily inhabited and irrigated area nearer the med) show identical erg dune formations. The israeli side has more roads and other man-made things, so I suppose they could be irrigating the dunes and have them planted with low-level fixative vegetation like marram grass.
I can upload images of the border closeup from worldwind (although the terraserver image above is more detailed) and the definate artificial montage line I describe above, if anyone wants to see for themselves. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 18:34, July 14, 2005 (UTC)
yes, I agree that failing all other explanations, it must be vegetation due to irrigation. Now I can understand they irrigate terrain near the Gaza strip, but the dark area really extends up to the mountains. Seeing that they are so short of water in the area, it seems like a crazy thing to do. I wonder if we can find out anything about the project and its rationale. dab () 09:25, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
It might also me a difference in vegetation due to a differnce in frequentation (i.e., army patrols) on the two sides of the border. Physchim62 12:05, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
hardly - you would (and do) see trails, but it wouldn't affect the entire area. dab () 17:39, 15 July 2005 (UTC)


Yesterday's featured article sparked my interest in Chinese chess and I've now learned how the pieces move, and downloaded a program to play the game with a western piece set. I'm disappointed though, that my search on pages teaching actual tactics with examples and all came up empty, has anyone got an idea which site to visit or should I rely on some sturdy old-fashioned books? - Mgm|(talk) 09:25, July 14, 2005 (UTC)

Wow, you sparked my interest as well. I just downloaded the Windows version and played (and won!) my first game (guess I need to download the stronger AIs). Errr, can't help you on strategy guides, though, sorry. — Asbestos | Talk 10:19, 14 July 2005 (UTC)
Tactics?'s a game of strategy, you're supposed to figure them out on your own. ¦ Reisio 11:32, 2005 July 14 (UTC)
That would discount thousands upon thousands of books on chess strategy and tactics. It's nice to live in an age where we don't have to re-invent strategy from scratch every time a new generation picks up a game. — Asbestos | Talk 11:41, 14 July 2005 (UTC)
Regurgitating moves learned from a book is not strategic or tactical, it's robotic. It's like following a comprehensive walkthrough to "play" a computer game. It doesn't prove you're intelligent or skillful, only that you are literate and can remember. The point of games are to entertain, stimulate thought or demonstrate prowess, not to see how well you remember what you read in "Chess for Dummies" last night. You can play memory games, of course, but then you wouldn't need something resembling a chess board and referred to as a strategy game, would you? ¦ Reisio 12:06, 2005 July 14 (UTC)
That's ridiculous. Strategies learned from books are not followed like an algorithm. That is impossible, because every opponent is different. Therefore, you don't have to worry about robotic players. A good book, however, will teach strategy concepts that are helpful it every game. Superm401 | Talk 12:58, July 14, 2005 (UTC)
I remember an article in Newsweek or something about a girl that came in like...2nd place in a high-level chess competition. She explained how the entire night before she was reading through Chess books memorizing moves for certain situations. Even if I hadn't read that I'd still know it to be true; humans can easily be robotic if they want to, my point is that it's likely to not be enjoyable. ¦ Reisio 15:17, 2005 July 14 (UTC)
Regardless of how one improves their gaming strategy, what matters in the end is insight. Insight will be one of the things that will separate the amateur and the expert. This goes for academics as well in my opinion. Some of the most beautiful and useful concepts in the world came from insight into uncharted territory. What I generally like is meeting someone who can learn and improve their game, and not be disillusioned by how "good" or "bad" they are when it comes to stuff like this.
For learning strategies, I usually suggest a framework based on Bloom's taxonomy:
6) Evaluation
5) Synthesis
4) Analysis
3) Application
2) Comprehension
1) Knowledge
If you want to be really good at anything, think at levels 4, 5, and 6 :-) --HappyCamper 14:32, 14 July 2005 (UTC)
Maybe a few heuristics would be more helpful?
  1. Standard openings are quite good. You don't have to memorize them, but the general idea is either an offensive or defensive strategy. An offensive strategy usually involves protecting and creating long files for your cannon and chariot to move around. A defensive strategy usually means making your base essentially impenetrable to enemy attack. If this occurs, you usually force the opponent to shift the attacking pieces over to one side, leaving the other side vulnerable to attack. In situations like this, the horse usually becomes quite important.
  2. In my opinion, at the start of the game, the cannon is probably the most important piece. That's because it's the most mobile. Then it's the horse. Then it's the chariot. At the beginning, the horse tends to participate in defending the soldier in the middle of the board. The idea is once you've got your base nice and secure, you will want to move one of the soldiers blocking the horse up so that the horse can jump across the river and start penetrating into enemy territory. You will likely need to move an elephant up towards the middle if your opponent is preventing you from freeing the movement of your horse. (But again, this is a tradeoff you have to consider, since if you move the elephant too early, you can't use that spot to attack with the chariot...)
  3. As more pieces get captured, the cannon becomes less and less useful. That's because there are less pieces on the board which can be used to help the cannon capture other pieces. (It always needs to jump over one piece to capture)
  4. Watch out for "single cannon checkmates"!! Beginners fall for this all too easily. Move the advisors and the elephants up to the center. I usually move both from the same side because it is extremely difficult to attack from the other side unless a chariot is involved.
  5. Don't lose your soldiers needlessly. These pieces are extremely important in situations where there are very few attacking pieces on the board.
  6. As your gaming strategy improves, you will find that sometimes you trade pieces of equal power for the purpose of getting a better position. Try not to end up in a defensive position on the board.
I personally haven't seen any quality strategy guides to the game written in English. Most of the good material I know of is written in Chinese or other Asian languages. Well,maybe someday we could talk more about this in the sandbox if this sort of activity is okay... --HappyCamper 14:24, 14 July 2005 (UTC)
Note also that end-game strategy usually involves careful positioning of your king. As the kings may never face each other, a wall can be created in a similar manner to that employed by rooks in a typical chess endgame. — Asbestos | Talk 15:18, 14 July 2005 (UTC)
  • Some basic strategies not mentioned above:

1) The double pao (double cannon) is an easy and lethal combination. Line up your two cannons (paos) in the column with the enemy's king early in the game, and this often produces checkmate. However, if the opponent sees this coming, it is easy to "deflect" this attack by either moving the general forward or moving one of the two bodyguards in front of the general.

2) Generally, you want to advance your pawns near the beginning of the game. By advancing the two pawns in the middle (not the ones in front of the rook (car) and the middle one), you open up the space for your horses to advance across the river. Otherwise, your opponent can advance his/her pawns and follow with the horses, while your horses must waste moves trying to maneuver around pieces, trying to cross the river.

3) Another common tactic is to move one "elephant" to the center column, so that the two elephants are protecting one another. In addition, this also helps deflect the "double pao" trick mentioned above by giving the player the option of moving the elephant back to its original position.

4) Do not move your chariot (rook) early in the game if your horse has not moved; this opens the opposing cannon (pao) to take your horse. This also supports tip number 2: move your pawns early, then your horses, thus freeing up your chariots.

5) Once you get a pawn across the river, be cautious about advancing forward. Keep in mind that the pawn cannot move backward, and that once it reaches the back row, can only move sideways on that row.

6) Generally, it is a good idea to have your two chariots on different sides of the board (i.e. left side and right side); this gives you more mobility and striking ability. However, there are MANY situations where this is not true.

Glad to see the article piqued your interest. If I think of any more tips, I'll be sure to put them down. Thanks! Flcelloguy | A note? | Desk 20:57, 14 July 2005 (UTC)

Strategy reminds me when I played a regional chess champion. He was playing 200 of us simulataneously. We were seated at tables in a huge circle with him in the middle. He would zoom around the room, glance at a board, make his move, zoom on, but kept stopping at me for more than a few moments, and after a few go rounds conceeded game to me. Reason ... the other 199 were playing almost identical bames of the best strategy they had book learned. I was playing unorthodox inferior strategy. The name of the game is to win, regardless of superiority of opponent. Except in Chinese Go, where the objective is to beat the opponent by as small a score as possible, so they not lose face. Ideal is to beat them by one point. If you beat someone by 100 points, it means you not understand the culture. AlMac 07:51, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

How to find a map of Graustark.and/or how to contact Graustark entry authro?[edit]

Is there a place to locate a map of the fictional country of Graustark? Prituclarly an online source if oen exists.

(it is discussed in English language Wiki article)

How would I contact the author of the Wikipeida article? I was unable to find any referenceto who was the person who wrote the article ont the articles' web page alternatively, I am trying to find someone familiar enough with the George McCutcheon Barr's Graustark series of novels to answer questions that I coudl not fidn anwers to anywhere on ehweb or in a local library.

Qny help much appreciated,

Adam Bishop

Every Wikipedia article has multiple contributors; this is a collaborative project. You can click the link that says "history" at any article to see the list of users who have contributed. -- Essjay · Talk 10:59, July 14, 2005 (UTC)
From the page's history, you can see that the main contributer appears to have been User:Dr.frog who appears to be still active. You could leave him a message on his talk page. — Asbestos | Talk 11:45, 14 July 2005 (UTC)

Identify this bug (brown beetle, bumpy back, long antennae)[edit]

I live in Minneapolis and a bug I'd never seen before showed up in my house. It was about the size and shape of a boxelder bug, but brown, with bumps (that reminded me of a pineapple) on the back. It had long cricket-like legs, and antennae that were longer than that. I have seen earwigs, click beetles, cockroaches, silverfish, and spiders before, and this was none of those. Do you know what it might be?

I've got a picture up at, if that will help you.

--DNordquist 11:57, 14 July 2005 (UTC)

Can you process that image with the GIMP or something to zoom in on the bug? Unless it is just a joke, one problem is it has too many legs to be an insect, but otherwise it looks a lot like the common insects I see around. If it didn't have so many legs it could easily be a relative of the boxelder bug, and looks quite similar to a wheel bug or other assassin bug or ambush bugs. pictures of Kentucky varieties You may be interested in this site too for more pictures of relatives of these bugs. - Taxman Talk 19:01, July 14, 2005 (UTC)

No, it's one of those types of insects you mentioned. Any "extra legs" are shadows or antennae. ¦ Reisio 22:30, 2005 July 14 (UTC)
Yeah, my camera doesn't do closeups very well. Sorry for the shadows. That was a great tip about True Bugs and, and I've pretty much made up my mind that it's a Western Conifer Seed Bug, based on the pictures I found at Thanks, guys. --DNordquist

Ah yes, "shadows". Seems rather obvious in hinsight doesn't it? :) With that in mind the western conifer seed bug does seem about right. If you can zoom and crop a bit, that article could use a picture. Adding an imperfect one, could spur someone to take a better one. I'll see if I can't catch a picture of one myself actually, though it will look pretty amateurish. - Taxman Talk 17:03, July 15, 2005 (UTC)

Outer space, general temperature and pressure (<address removed>)[edit]

What is the general temperature of the universe / outerspace?

Just under 3K

What is the pressure of outer space? I thought it was around 14 pound vacuum. If so does the pressure/temperature change or not be constant throughout the universe.

Next to nothing (about 1 fPa)

Can the tail of a comet be considered a black hole. Or maybe better said. Would a space craft have less resistance following behind a comet etc...?

No it can't.Theresa Knott (a tenth stroke) 14:46, 14 July 2005 (UTC)
Also, the pressure might reasonably be expected to be different in different parts of space, for example, pressue in intergalactic space might well be lower than that in interstellar space. However, any difference would be between "very very very low" and "very very very very low"; -- Karada 15:00, 14 July 2005 (UTC)
As for "less resistance following behind", this is a valid concept (though not for a comet's tail!) - a wake shield. Except we don't seem to have an article on that... but we do have one on the Wake Shield Facility, a research project flown a couple of times. Shimgray 19:50, 14 July 2005 (UTC)

You are thinking of the tail of a comet as following it like smoke from a plane flying in the sky. Wrong concept. The tail of a comet points away from the sun no matter whether the comet is traveling towards the sun or away from it. The sun turns frozen stuff to gas on the ball of ice called a comet and the solar wind pushes that gas away from the sun. Solar wind is a misnomer, in that you can't fill a ballon with it or anything like that. But it does push stuff. 09:07, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

please add Verlan French[edit]

Just a suggestion that Verlan French be added to your French section. It's a current dialect, mostly used by young people, in France. Thanks. Leeann McGovern, Halifax, Canada

We do indeed have an article on it: Verlan, which is also linked in the See also section of French_language. — Asbestos | Talk 15:12, 14 July 2005 (UTC)
I've created a redirect from Verlan French to Verlan to aid others finding it. Thryduulf 16:01, 14 July 2005 (UTC)

Locating a public domain map of the Pacific/South Pacific[edit]

I'm trying to draw a map of the Polynesia area, but can't find a suitable public domain map of the Pacific. The CIA factbook South Pacific map cuts off East Polynesia, and the large world map from the LOC uses a bizarre compression. Can anyone point me somewhere else? lots of issues | leave me a message 18:01, 14 July 2005 (UTC)

If you give me the rough north, south, east, and west boundaries of the box you want, I should be able to make a rough bitmap one using panmap. A smoother vectorised (Inkscape) version might be possible (so long as there aren't millions of islands, which I fear there will be). -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 19:00, July 14, 2005 (UTC)
A general triangle forms Polynesia. The corners: New Zealand, Easter Island, and Hawaii. Here's a pic representation. [12] Doesn't need to be precise, because there is no precise shape that includes everything. In other represenations I think the Fiji main islands were all included inside the boundary. Thanks lots of issues | leave me a message 19:16, 14 July 2005 (UTC)
Okay, here's the kind of thing I can produce: Image:Wfm polynesia.png. It's just a mono outline, so if you want to make it into an attractive map then it will take a bunch of manipulation in a bitmap editor. I've made as detailed a one as I can, but you'd probably work at this scale for now and then downsize to something more practical for final use. Note that panmap has "issues" with little islands (i.e. features smaller than a few pixels across at the current zoom level) - so if you zoom in you'll see most of the islands aren't really properly closed forms; this is due to rounding error, I guess. The process I use (which is rather labour intensive) for turning these into a decent map is described at Image:Wfm_caltrain.png#Method_of_production. Generally I just erase landforms that are too small to be significant for the map I'm making. One day I'll upload my map of Shetland, which is a better illustration of how such archepelagic areas can be mapped. Note I can also produce fairly detailed maps of individual island groups (I think...) -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 20:14, July 14, 2005 (UTC)
Yep, I can. Here, for example, is part of Fiji: Image:Wfm fiji1.png. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 20:35, July 14, 2005 (UTC)
Thank you for your work. The image is very faint though, I'm not sure if it can be used, I'll try to color the ocean. lots of issues | leave me a message 21:10, 14 July 2005 (UTC)
It's not really faint, per se: when you zoom in the pixels are black, but the shorelines are only a pixel broad. The best idea is to vectorise it as described in the caltrain image, above - then you have real control over how thick the shoreline appears. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 21:14, July 14, 2005 (UTC)
Use one of the PDF maps at the CIA Factbook - probably the political or physical world map would be best. These use vectors and you can zoom in basically infinitely without loss of quality (well, after a while in the physical one there is :p). ¦ Reisio 22:27, 2005 July 14 (UTC)

Thanks Finlay, I put it up Polynesia lots of issues | leave me a message 21:03, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

Best Selling Unfilmed Book[edit]

In Joyce Maynard's book about how she became J. D. Salinger's lover while a freshman at Yale University, At Home in the World, she reports Salinger claimed people kept pestering him for the film rights to Catcher in the Rye but he vowed he would never sell. Would this be the best selling book never adapted for the movies? PedanticallySpeaking 19:30, July 14, 2005 (UTC)

Okay, let's rephrase. What's the best-selling novel that's never been adapted for the screen? PedanticallySpeaking 20:51, July 14, 2005 (UTC)

Surely there isn't a movie version of the Qur'an? -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 20:01, July 14, 2005 (UTC)
That's exactly what I was thinking seeing the headline, before I scrolled down. Then again, it's a pretty obvious answer. Thee was a recent animated film of the life of Muhammed, the first ever and unusual because he could not be directly depicted, but of course the many other events in the Qur'an were not covered.--Pharos 20:40, 14 July 2005 (UTC)
Wasn't there an actual filmed version of the life of the Prophet a while back - again, done quite cleverly, not showing anything more than a shadow? However, I strongly suspect you could also find that there are parts of the Bible not filmed... One guess would be Quotations From Chairman Mao Tse-Tung, which is well over a billion, but I suspect that it's been filmed extensively in China by now. Shimgray 21:02, 14 July 2005 (UTC)
Numbers for The Da Vinci Code are vague, but are quite probably larger than those for Catcher. OTOH, it's in the process of filming, so whilst there technically hasn't been an adaptation made yet, it probably doesn't count... Shimgray 21:59, 14 July 2005 (UTC)
The Da Vinci Code has been sold more than the Catcher in the Rye?? Are you kidding, that shabby piece of literature? It reads like it was written by a college kid. I admit I did finish it, but I was glad I had borrowed, not bought it. (okay, so the Catcher in the Rye reads like it was written by a kid to, but at least that is its point :) dab () 09:30, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
I know, I know... Statistics for Catcher are vague, but I ran across a WaPo article saying "comfortably over ten million". DVC... it's hard to say. I've seen estimates of eighteen to twenty-five, which seem high, but nine months after release it was (still in hardcover) hitting five million, and it seemed to hit 8m h/c copies in the US alone. Throw in the paperback sales... s'big. It's hard to say if it's bigger or not, but given its sales at the moment are still chugging along, it may well be. Shimgray 11:11, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
What about the new Harry Potter book, Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince? Seems to me that the pre-orders alone would put a dent in the numbers for DVC. As of midnight tonight that book will have been released. Dismas 13:57, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
"Production has been confirmed" (Harry Potter and the Half Blood Prince (movie)). So not for long. And the wiki template at bottom of page linked the movie for a while, but still doesn't link the book. Ojw 21:00, 17 July 2005 (UTC)
Looks like about five million or so for HP&HBP, but HP&GOF has still only seems to have reached fifteen million after two years, probably still short of DaVinci. DJ Clayworth 17:22, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
Well, so far HP&HBP had 8.9 million in the first 24 hours... CNN story Dismas 21:28, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
I'd stake a lot of money that the Da Vinci code has outsold, and will outsell any of the HP books individually. Particularly once the movie comes out, as that'll respark interest. I read somewhere it's sold around 25 million copies already. Proto t c 12:44, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

Lord Chancellor's Office[edit]

Anyone have an e-mail address for the British Lord Chancellor, Lord Falconer? I looked at his office's site and they have the addresses as links and when I tried to copy the shortcut all I got was a string of gibberish (something like "%23%23%65"). PedanticallySpeaking 19:30, July 14, 2005 (UTC)

Where'd you see this? The only obvious one I saw was a 'General Queries' address: general.queries at from [13]. --Laura Scudder | Talk 20:05, 14 July 2005 (UTC)

That's the page. When I right clicked to get the shortcut, all it produced was gibberish. PedanticallySpeaking 20:28, July 14, 2005 (UTC)

It's encoded there to prevent spammers from getting at it. The "general queries" address is general dot queries at dca dot gsi dot gov dot uk, and the customer service address is customerserviceCSHQ at courtservice dot gsi dot gov dot ukmendel

Sweet tasting poision[edit]

In a biography of Brigham Young, he is quoted advising young people against reading novels saying that while they are entertaining they will rot your brain. He compares it to eating sweet berries that are poisionous. I thought most poisions were bitter and unpleasant tasting. What poisions would be sweet? PedanticallySpeaking 19:30, July 14, 2005 (UTC)

Brother Brigham said some crazy things, didn't he? Taco Deposit | Talk-o to Taco 01:59, July 15, 2005 (UTC)

There are some berries that have a sweet taste but are poisonous anyway. I don't know the exact names. Take a look, for example, at Coriaria thymifolia, a plant of the Coriaria genus whose berries taste like blueberries, but are hallucinogenic and toxic.

I think Brigham Young was right. Too much fiction can make your encephalon rot. 2004-12-29T22:45Z 19:53, 14 July 2005 (UTC)

A prominent non-natural one these days is antifreeze, which is frequently drunk by children who find it tastes good or snuck into fruit drinks in various murder cases. Apparently they add nasty tasting chemicals these days to ethylene glycol antifreezes to avoid such things.--Laura Scudder | Talk 19:59, 14 July 2005 (UTC)

The quote might also be talking about sweet berries with poisonous seeds. These usually contain prussic acid (always watch for the almond smell in chem lab folks). Most berries with poisonous fruit I can think of taste bitter, but a sweet berry can have a poisonous pit. --Laura Scudder | Talk 20:14, 14 July 2005 (UTC)
Almond smell comes from cyanide doesn't it? I remember that from a forensics thing on TV. --Phroziac (talk) 22:22, 14 July 2005 (UTC)
Yeah, prussic acid is hydrogen cyanide. So far as I know most naturally almond flavored plants contain some cyanide. Even those yucca leaves we used to chew on as it turns out. --Laura Scudder | Talk 23:38, 14 July 2005 (UTC)

If you eat too many Flinstones flavored chewable vitamins you will have brain damage (assuming that the vitamin is fat-soluable). --Think Fast 01:39, July 15, 2005 (UTC)

Beryllium salts are also (alledgedly) sweet-tasting, though I wouldn't want to test the idea. Physchim62 11:57, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

Symbol of a lodge[edit]

I saw a tombstone a few weeks ago for a man who was a member of many groups. His stone carried the emblems of the American Legion, the Masons, the Odd Fellows, the VFW, the Eagles, and one symbol I didn't know: three links of chain. Which group has this as its symbol? PedanticallySpeaking 20:21, July 14, 2005 (UTC)

Was it this symbol? --Laura Scudder | Talk 21:02, 14 July 2005 (UTC)

No. It was links of chain. PedanticallySpeaking 21:11, July 14, 2005 (UTC)

Like this from here? They ID it as another Odd Fellows symbol like on this Odd Fellows page. --Laura Scudder | Talk 21:19, 14 July 2005 (UTC)
  • Yeah, that's IOOF. I've seen lots of those on buildings in the West -- most towns of any size at all will have an Odd Fellows Hall. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 21:22, 14 July 2005 (UTC)
That's it! Thanks folks! PedanticallySpeaking 13:21, July 15, 2005 (UTC)
Well, if the chain links were IOOF and you didn't recognize it, what was the logo that you had initially identified as the Odd Fellows? Would he have had two OF logos? Sharkford 21:02, 16 July 2005 (UTC)
It's been a couple months since I saw the stone. But there were about six or seven symbols on there. My recollection is probably wrong. PedanticallySpeaking 16:59, July 18, 2005 (UTC)

Copper determination[edit]

My sister asked me to think of a quick and easy way to determine the amount of copper in tap water. I think using a color reaction to do spectrophotometry would be the easiest way (she has a job at a lab), but that requires something to generate a color complex which is isn't interfered with by several other minerals. Has anyone got suggestions on what to use and where to find the molar extinction coefficient of this substance's complex with copper? - Mgm|(talk) 21:08, July 14, 2005 (UTC)

Ammonia might work. No need to know the molar extinction; just use standard addition. I can get you more details if you want. Rangek 06:14, July 15, 2005 (UTC)
Ammonia would not work, not for tap water (unless there are real problems, such as the water coming out of the tap blue). The standard method is atomic absorption spectroscopy, which is as quick and easy as spectrophotometry if you have the equipment.
If you must use spectrophotometry, the standard reagent is cuproin (2,2'-biquinoline, CAS number 119-91-5), which is available from Fluka for 30 euros a gram (you don't need much for the determination).
In general, a calibration curve is preferred to the method of standard additions, as it is more accurate for the same amount of work. However, there might be interferences in a spectrophotometric determination in tap water (other transition metal cations present), so I would recommend the use of standard additions in this case. Certainly do not trust extinction coefficients given in the literature! Physchim62 11:54, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
Yeah, when I woke up this morning I thought to myself, "UV-vis is never going to work for Cu-NH3 in tap water. They should do AA." That's what I get for trying to answer questions in the middle of the night.
I would like to say that I personally prefer standard addition to calibration curves with real life samples in almost all cases. With pratice, the extra work isn't that bad, and you almost never have to worry about sample prep, one of the more difficult and often overlooked areas of analytical chemistry. I suppose that most analytical chemists just grind on the same type of samples over and over though, so I guess calibration curves pay off there.
Any-hoo, Physchim62 is right, AA determination of Cu by standard addition is the way to go for your situation. Rangek 03:40, July 16, 2005 (UTC)
I think it's fair to say that most analytical chemists do tend to have the same type of samples (eg, tap water) day-in day-out, and so are aware of the possible interferences. Maybe I was too much of a purist—standard addition is obligatory if you are not sure about possible interferences. However it is less precise that a calibration curve (3% relative uncertainty as opposed to 1% in typical situations, although you can do better if you work really hard at it), and so I tend to see calibration as preferred when you can get away with it. Physchim62 09:14, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

Unionized workers[edit]

About what proportion of blue-collar workers in the US belong to a union? About what proportion of these live in blue vs red states (only very roughly)? Thanks!

Just to clarify: What I'm really looking for is, if you're a blue-collar worker, are you more likely to be unionized if you live in a blue state or a red state? Thanks again.
I'm afraid you'd have to do some maths yourself, but here's the 2004 figures for unionisation rates on a by-state basis, from the Bureau of Labor Statistics - [14] (the main text is here - [15]). Should be fairly easy to draw some quick conclusions from that for "proportion of union members in a state's workforce". Note that this doesn't cover unemployed union members.
However, it doesn't give any breakdown by industry or salary (ie, white or blue collar) - you'd have to look elsewhere for that. Shimgray 22:50, 14 July 2005 (UTC)
It might also be helpful for you to look up the statistics which states are Right to work at will and other variations on labor law. At the federal level there are laws managed by the National Labor Relations Board (NLRB}, then each state can amend those rules. AlMac 23:19, 14 July 2005 (UTC)

What is heavy metal music?[edit]

I really can't understand heavy metal music. A few questions here:

  • Why is heavy metal music so aggresive, with all the distorted electric guitars and loud screams?
  • Some people associate drugs, crime, and occult with heavy metal. To what extent is this true?
  • Are rock 'n' roll, oldies, and classic rock synonymous with heavy metal music?
  • Is the hippie culture related to heavy metal music?

Thanks. — Stevey7788 (talk) 23:17, 14 July 2005 (UTC)

Why is heavy metal music so aggresive, with all the distorted electric guitars and loud screams?
Why not?
Some people associate drugs, crime, and occult with heavy metal. To what extent is this true?
Uh...well it seems like at least once a week there's some news report on a rockstar using drugs or being criminal or something.
Are rock 'n' roll, oldies, and classic rock synonymous with heavy metal music?
No, that's why they're called what they're called. Heavy metal is surely encompassed by Rock 'n' Roll, though.
Is the hippie culture related to heavy metal music?
Yes. I believe I remember watching some documentary which claimed one of the (possibly the) first reference to "heavy metal" was a description of Jimi Hendrix's playing. The quote was something like "[Jimi Hendrix's music] is like heavy metal falling from the sky". ¦ Reisio 23:42, 2005 July 14 (UTC)
I believe the term 'heavy metal' was first coined by Lester Bangs (a rock journo, I think) to refer to bands of the late '60s & early '70s with names like Led Zeppelin, Iron Butterfly and one or two others jamesgibbon 17:17, 16 July 2005 (UTC) ¦ Reisio 04:36, 2005 July 17 (UTC)

Nature sees to it that male mammals in their prime are full of energy and aggression. In humans this results in most violent crime being committed by males 16 to 26 (or so), each generation in that age group being attacted to music that expresses how they feel (full of energy, to be nice about it), and many other interesting consequences. Humans imprint (sort of) on the music styles of their youth. Each generation in Western culture likes to set itself apart with its "own" music styles. So one generation loves light to heavy rock (includes heavy metal), another likes light to heavy rap, and so on. 09:23, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

Some people associate drugs, crime, and occult with heavy metal. To what extent is this true?
The extent is hard to measure. However, the music industry as a whole, and particularly those types of music appealing to the youth market that use electric guitars, are well known for being awash with drugs. Without wishing to bring down a lawsuit on my head I think Black Sabbath and Aerosmith are known as having been particularly heavy (metal) indulgers.
For occult elements you could again look at Black Sabbath and, for pastiche, Spinal Tap. But for some genuinely frightening examples of occultism read about Norwegian Black Metal, a genre said to be directly involved with church burnings and murder. --bodnotbod 07:02, July 25, 2005 (UTC)

World's Safest Country[edit]

What is the safest country in the world today? (preceding unsigned comment by 2005-07-15 01:22 UTC)

  • If you mean that literally, the country where you are least likely to die over time, I suppose that would be the country with the highest life expectancy, which I think is Japan.--Pharos 01:50, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
  • There are some competing claims for the world's lowest crime rate. Japan's up there; so is Saudi Arabia. Likewise China and Myanmar. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 02:01, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
    • I said life expectancy should be the most general measure; why should "safety" be only an issue of crime? Comparatively few people's safety is most threatened by violent crime. Japan is "safe" not only because of low crime, but because of low rates of serious disease, low rates of work-related accidents (I presume) etc.--Pharos 02:11, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
    • Saudi Arabia?!?! *cough cough * — Ilγαηερ (Tαlκ) 02:16, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
    • Myanmar mentioned within a few paragraphs in a question about Worlds safest country. I think that sums up why crime rate isn't a good measure of safety Coyote-37 16:29, 25 July 2005 (UTC)
    • Uh... is that the world's lowest crime rate, or the world's lowest incidence of reported crime? - Ta bu shi da yu 07:29, 25 July 2005 (UTC)

It's a tradeoff, dictatorial countries will have less crime, but are likely to imprison or harm more innocent people. More democratic nations typically will let the occaisional criminal go, rather than run the chance that the state might harm an innocent.

This might distort safety statistics to some degree. :-)

My guess is the Vatican is probably one of the safest. Unless you count old age as a risk. DJ Clayworth 16:58, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

In 1996, the Captain of the Swiss Guard, his wife, and another guard were found dead; it's not completely clear who killed who, but there was certainly foul play involved. Given the tiny population, that's bound to have a disproportionate effect on the murder statistics. Shimgray 14:18, 16 July 2005 (UTC)
In many nations, to get the benefits of the high quality safety, you have to be a male of the right religion, and have certain connections.
Heavy urbanization has more random crime, while rural areas less quality of life and poorer infrastructure to service you if an emergency.
Consider high or low risk of wild fires, serious flooding, avalanche, earthquake, volcano eruption, tidal wave, tropical storm, tornado, sufficient warning one is coming so you can get to cover.
Local terrain & its utilization support good plentiful food supply, as opposed to the place being a nation of starvation.
Human infrastructure well developed for safety ... do you take your life into your hands any time you go on the public highways? What are the odds that an appliance plugged into the electrical system will have an electrical fire, and burn down your home with you in it?
Within individual nations there are Atlases on best places to live. AlMac 19:01, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

Permanent deletion of Psilocybe Fanaticus article[edit]

I noticed that the article for Psilocybe Fanaticus was deleted on October 25, 2003. The cause for deletion was not mentioned, but the words(As discussed on Votes for Deletion). Is there a way to view the discussion that took place regarding the deletion of this article? And is there a reason why no new page has been created to replace it in the nearly two years since?

Please take this question to the wikipedia:Help desk as it deals with operation of wikipedia. alteripse 02:44, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

The reason is probably either that no-one has got round to it, or that there is no verifiable information on this species. See Psilocybe for more details. Physchim62 13:03, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

According to Google, "Psilocybe Fanaticus" is not a species, but an ex-company that sold equipment for recreational use of Psilocybe cubensis. In theory you could look back through the history of Wikipedia:Votes for deletion to see if you can find the relevant discussion, but I doubt it would be worthwhile. From reading Google, it looks as though the company wouldn't even merit a brief mention in the Psilocybe cubensis article. Gdr 13:35, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

World stamps of the year 2000 and their issue cities.[edit]

What is the name of the countries and other … that have postal authorities for mail in said countries and other … issuing stamps in the year 2000 and the name of the city or town thatissued the stamps their.

I am a topical stamp collector and wish to give my granddaughter a gift from me that she can keep that is from the year she was born from me. I need information to complete this task with in the next year. Thank you, Geo.James

New stamp issues are covered in philatelic newspapers traditionally. One of the oldest is Linn's [16], which is weekly. For a past year, you can check a current copy of Scott catalog at a local philatelic dealer and check the year 2000 for each of the hundreds of countries that issue stamps. You have quite a job ahead of you to collect all the issues for a year from around the world. It also occurs to me that some of the larger companies like Harris or Minkus might offer a service for wealthy collectors of all the issues for a recent year. You might check if money is no object. alteripse 03:11, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

Some countries release collections themselves, for example New Zealand Post puts out beautifully-illustrated books with information and photos (and, of course, the stamps). That would add even more expense to an already grand undertaking, but would be easier than trying to buy them up separately. Stamp shops (especially online) should sell backissues of things like these, but it's unlikely that the postal authorities themselves do.
Oh and of especial interest might be the, um... um... I forget... United Somethingorother... anyway it's all of endangered animals etc., and all beatifully illustrated. No country issued them and they had no value (as in Cinderellas), they were a special commemorative production. GarrettTalk 11:27, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

How should one convert Russian grades into US grades?[edit]

I am interested how the Russian grades 5 and 4 are considered in the US. What US grades are similar to the Russian 5 and 4???

  1. Are you talking university grades? In that case I would assume a 5 is an A, a 4 a B, etc., depending on how many there are and which the top number is.
  2. Are you talking about school grades? In that case I really don't know. GarrettTalk 12:53, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
Don't be so sure about the first one - a good few systems use 1 as the highest grade (the Scottish exam system, for example). Shimgray 13:11, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
... and the German, and the Austrian, and so on, yes. Without further information as to how many grades there are and which ones are the best ones, I doubt we can say much more to that. Nightstallion 13:20, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
How badly do you need to know? If it's just for your own interest than I don't know how to help, but if it's because you want to work/study in the US then I should think there is an agency that will provide a comparision (for a fee). For example, here in the UK, you would go to The UK NARIC MyNameIsClare talk 14:57, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
I don't know anything about Russian grades, but you seem to so let me tell you how our system works and see if it helps. At my University average was a B, so:
A - Above average
B - Average
C - Below Average
D - Barely passing (most institutions won't accept for transfer credit)
F - Fail
Of course for exams the system usually worked differently:
A - more than two standard deviations above average
B - more than one standard deviation above average
C - average
D - more than one standard deviation below average
F - more than two standard deviations below average
You could get a rough idea by overlaying the Russian average grade onto a low B and then trying to fill out the scale. Of course, my experience with translating German grades (a B for being in the top 10% of the class) has taught me that it can be incredibly arbitrary, but you can get an idea. --Laura Scudder | Talk 15:27, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

I am pretty sure my Russian teacher said that in Russia, 5 is the best, 1 is the worst. How that would apply though depends on which "American" system you use -- A is the best, F is the worst, da, but usually A = 90%+, B=80%+, C=70%+, D=60%+, and F=50%, and anything below 50% is still just an F. No idea if the 5-1 system is the same way or not. In any event, I could ask her on Monday if it is still an open question, I am sure it is an easy answer. --Fastfission 21:53, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

  • If you're thinking of applying to a university or job in the States or in England, you might be better off stating your class rank if you know it (e.g. top 20%). It can be difficult to convert the meaning of the grade, instead of just listing the equivalent. I know my 3.5 average here in Edinburgh is very good, but also know that it's less good in the states where grade inflation means that everyone gets As as a matter of course (you should have seen the number of tears shed for B+'s at my undergraduate degree). — Asbestos | Talk 23:41, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

My Russian teacher said:

  • the grades go from 5 (best) to 1 (worst)
  • that a D in the USA is the same as a 1 in Russia
  • they don't do anything like the +/-

Hope that is helpful in some way... her English is nyet harasho, and I am not 100% sure I understand her response... --Fastfission 20:39, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

So I asked a friend who works for a service that converts transcripts and she said they just use

  • 5 Otlichno Excellent A = 4.00
  • 4 Khorosho Good B = 3.00
  • 3 Udovletvoritel'no Satisfactory C = 2.00
  • Pass Zachot or Zachteno Pass P = Pass
  • 2 Plokho/Neudovletvoritel'no Unsatisfactory F = 0.00

which isn't that surprising. --Laura Scudder | Talk 17:57, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

Liver Disease in Southern Italy[edit]

My mother was born in Bari, Italy, and came to the US in 1948. She died of Non-Alcoholic Cirrhosis of the liver (NAHS)at age 75. Her mother and sister also died of NAHS, and her father died from cysts on his liver. They did not have hepatitis, and were not drinkers.

Does anyone know if Non-Alcoholic Cirrhosis and other forms of liver disease unrelated to alcoholism are common to this region of Southern Italy?

JoAnn - USA

There are many inherited liver diseases that are increased in incidence in small-gene-pool populations (potential consanguinity) in general but most cause trouble earlier in life. One of the most common inherited liver diseases which may casue cirrhosis later in life is alpha-1-antitrypsin deficiency; it may occur in southern Italy but is even more common in northern Italy and northern Europe. Thalassemia is the disease most doctors associate with southern Italy, but the liver is severely affected in only the worst cases and the diagnosis should have been easy to recognize from the complete blood count. We need a gastroenterologist! alteripse 18:48, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

Legal dilemma arising from a random pub discussion[edit]


If a conjoined twin were to commit a murder, is there anyway for the law to punish him (or her) without infringing on the rights of the completely innocent twin? (I'm most interested in the case under UK law but the perspectives of other countries would be welcome too) I suspect he (or she) would be able to get away with murder. Any views? Does anyone know of a real-life criminal case involving a conjoined twin? Dmn / Դմն

Mark Twain was way ahead of you. He dealt with that possibility in the novel Pudd'n'head Wilson, based loosely on accounts of the real Siamese twins, Chang and Eng. alteripse 01:17, 15 July 2005 (UTC) there anyway for the law to punish him (or her) without infringing on the rights of the completely innocent twin? - easy! You seperate them and give all the vital shared organs to the innocent one :) →Raul654 01:19, July 15, 2005 (UTC)

Wow, you're a regular Solomon!--Pharos 01:22, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
Seems logical. — Ilγαηερ (Tαlκ) 01:25, 15 July 2005 (UTC) I agree! alteripse 01:26, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
JADP: the conjoined twins Violet and Daisy Hilton were in a movie about exactly that, Chained for Life. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 01:28, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
Could be worse - it could have been Nicky and Paris Hilton →Raul654 01:31, July 15, 2005 (UTC)
I wish there was a rolling-eyes smily up on wikipedia. — Ilγαηερ (Tαlκ) 01:34, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

If twin one kills someone, wouldn't twin two be in trouble for allowing his twin to commit murder? --Think Fast 01:42, July 15, 2005 (UTC)

That's what I was thinking. Also logical. — Ilγαηερ (Tαlκ) 01:45, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
If person A kills person B in front of you, in all jurisdictions I can think of, you are under no obligation to intervene. You might read about Kitty Genovese →Raul654 01:50, July 15, 2005 (UTC)
In the US if the innocent twin saw her sister preparing to commit the murder knowing what she was doing or was present for any attempted concealment of the murder then since neither can move without the other (unless only one twin controls all the legs) the innocent twin could be an accessory. --Laura Scudder | Talk 04:10, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
Think it would be hard to prove which "one" did it using forensic methods. But if it were proved, the punishment aspect is easy -- the law makes little provision for the harm imprisonment causes relatives, loved ones, friends, etc. That "innocent" twin would go to jail too, too bad. Good reason to keep your attached twin from doing a crime.DavidH 02:32, July 15, 2005 (UTC)
I would think that the ACLU would have a field day with this aspect considering an "innocent" person was being sent to prison for something they didn't directly do. Is there any legal precedent? Dismas 09:38, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
My suspicion would be that, as Laura said, they'd be considered an accessory to the crime. IANAL &c, and I really, really wouldn't want to be the judge for this one. Shimgray 11:04, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
You could tell which twin did the crime from the pattern of fingerprints on the weapon. According to Dr. Hibbert, in cases like this, it is always the left hand twin that is the evil one. -- Solipsist 13:37, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
But one can easily imagine situations in which the other twin can't be considered an accessory to the murder. For example, twin A hires a hitman while keeping all details secret from twin B. So the "accessory" theory is just a get-out to avoid confronting the dilemma head-on. Gdr 13:47, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
I suspected people may try to weasel out of the problem this ways. From now let's assume the innocent twin is indeed innocent of all crimes. The problem with a seperation is it requires the innocent twin to agree. In most countries the consent of the guilty twin would be required too. Int he UK I'm not sure if the murderer can even be subject to electronic tagging with the innocent twin's consent either as this would effectively tag him (or her) as well. The greatest puishment I can think of is some sort of fine! Dmn / Դմն 16:09, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
Since there are two brains there are also two pain centers. So, Just punish the guilty one by whomping him upside the head with a frying pan every day. ;-) hydnjo talk 18:40, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
Consider the legal precedent of some Insanity variants. It is a quite common theme on TV shows about crime & punishment to have the accused be someone with the psychriatic condition of two or more minds in one body. I not know how common in real life. In most western criminal law, a person needs to know they were doing wrong at the time of the crime, in addition to proving they did it, to be found guilty. This not apply in some cases of Insane Temporarily Insane Mentally deficient and extreme youth.
The legal system has to decide whether to lock up the body, or do whatever punishment, when one or more of the minds, occupying the brain, are probably innocent.

AlMac 18:48, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

Icicles which grow up in the freezer (not down)[edit]

I read somewhere describing a procedure to make icicles grow upin the freezer as opposed to down. I recall something like taking an ice cube tray, and filling the compartments with (possibly) boiled distilled water (or something of that manner). The boiling removes the dissolved air in the water, and I suspect the distillation just makes the water crystallize better. Anyway, the idea is that ice cube will freeze from the top to the bottom first, and from the edge towards the center. As this happens, it's able to push the water through the middle of the top surface, and if the freezing is done at the correct rate, you can get icicles about an inch or two high. Has anyone else come across this? Brownie points if you can supply pictures :-) --HappyCamper 16:54, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

My ice cubes almost always have a little mountain (ok, hill) in the center. hydnjo talk 18:34, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
They're called "ice spikes", and this page explains how they form and how to encourage their growth and provides photos. You seem to be on the right track with your explanation. — mendel 20:23, July 15, 2005 (UTC)
Wow, that was the most informative link I've seen in a long time on a subject I'd never heard of before. There's even a pdf paper on it I haven't read yet. The reference desk really is a great place sometimes. (Off to see if I can get some ice spikes.) And by the way, you're both now required to make sure there is an article on those. :) - Taxman Talk 21:27, July 15, 2005 (UTC)

misaligned satellite images[edit]

How do I call these misaligned satellite images? Is there a jargon for it? -- Toytoy 17:33, July 15, 2005 (UTC)

I've seen them called "misregistered", a reference to the analagous misalignment of colour layers in printing. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 17:43, July 15, 2005 (UTC)
I think that the alignment/registration is quite good. The color differences may be due to segments of the "mosaic" having been taken at different times with different weather conditions or even different film or photo processing. The important thing on these maps is to show what is where even if not "picture perfect". hydnjo talk 18:28, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
There is some misalignment (some of the farmland is not lined up correctly). — Ilγαηερ (Tαlκ) 21:56, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
I agree about the misalignment (20 meters or so) and I spoke out of turn there. The color differences caught my eye and I didn't even notice the misalignment. Sorry 'bout that, hydnjo talk 22:49, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

Want to know the name of an episode of Star Trek: The Next Generation![edit]


(The spoiler warning is because it will give away the ending of one episode of the series!)

I'm trying to find out the name of an episode of Star Trek: The Next Generation. The episode in question is the one where at the end Dr. Beverly Crusher tells a young woman that she must marry an old man for genetic reasons, and I am hoping that a fan might be able to help with this query.

Thanks in advance.

--Tracey Lowndes 18:17, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

I don't know the answer unfortunately, but you might try also asking the question at Memory Alpha a wiki dedicated to Star Trek - Main Page Reference Desk. Thryduulf 18:42, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
The closest I can think of is Up the Long Ladder, where at the end Dr. Pulaski advises the primitive Bringloidi to interbreed with the high-tech Mariposan cloners in order to integrate the two groups and stabilize the degraded cloned DNA. The ending features a young pseudo-Irish woman asking "Three husbands?" If that's not the one you're looking for, you'd might have better luck asking at Memory Alpha's Reference Desk. -- Cyrius| 19:13, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

Pastiche or roman a clef?[edit]

Is The Iron Dream a pastiche or a roman a clef? It's a great big metaphor for Nazism, except it's the way Hitler would have wanted it---he (well, "Feric Jaggar") is a big strapping blond fellow, and he conquers the world. grendel|khan 21:31, July 15, 2005 (UTC)

Perhaps it is more accurately an Allegory.

Copulation article: definitions of "copulation", "mating" and "sexual intercourse", and origin, evolution and function of copulation[edit]

What is the exact definition of "copulation"? Which animals do or are said to copulate? (Please name the exact taxons those animals belong to, if possible.) In which geological period did animals start to copulate? How did copulation evolve biologically since then? Why do animals and humans "copulate"? What is the function of copulating, as opposed to, for example, spawning like fish or spreading pollen like anthophytes (flowering plants)? What is the exact difference between "copulation", "mating" and "sexual intercourse"?

All those questions are not clearly or explicitly answered on the article called "Copulation". Should there be separate articles for those terms ("copulation", "mating", "sexual intercourse")? 2004-12-29T22:45Z 21:32, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

  • A look at the wiktionary entry suggests these are all synonyms, which would explain why copulation is redirected to sexual intercourse. - Mgm|(talk) 22:12, July 15, 2005 (UTC)
    • That's too bad, since they are not all synonyms. Bacteria, for example, copulate, but can hardly be said to be having sexual intercourse. And verbs (as well as conjunctions) can be "copulative". - F. X. Leyendecker 03:49, 20 July 2005 (UTC)
  • Copulation is just a flowerly way of saying "joining", which is just a G-rated way of saying "having sex". ¦ Reisio 23:16, 2005 July 15 (UTC)
  • Or you could reject the validity of evolution and tell your professor that all copulation started "after the fall", in the pornocene era, and it hasn't evolved since then, it's just gotten dirtier. And the only legitimate function of course is procreation. The three different terms of course refer respectively to sex had by you, by the folks down the street, and by your parents. Apparently there was a bill introduced recently in the Florida legislature to require professors to allow you to learn an alternate theory, so if you are going to school in Florida, you might be home free. alteripse 23:24, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
  • I'm surprised that the reason behind sexual intercourse is not specified in the article. Basically, sexual intercourse and copulation involve penetrative sex. This is because sperm and eggs were evolved under water, and their mechanisms depend on them being in water (the sperm need to swim, for instance). When animals migrated to the land, sexual intercourse evolved to allow the animals to mate on land while still having the sperm and eggs in a watery environment (instead of requiring the animals to go back to the water to reproduce). I believe birds evolved cloacal sex from penetrative sex. "Mating", however, is more general, and isn't really a perfect synonym for sexual intercourse, as one regularly talks of fish mating. — Asbestos | Talk 23:31, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

Could someone please help expand the article accordingly? 2004-12-29T22:45Z 15:52, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

British law citation?[edit]

I've found a citation that I'd like to look up, but I have no idea what it means:

  • 3 Hansard CCII: 817 (25 July, 1870) and CCII: 1006-09 (26 July, 1870).

I suspect it is some sort of British law citation or something like that -- it relates to a bill proposed to Parliament to modify the 1871 census. Anyway -- where would I look this up? What do the citations mean, specifically? (that is, I understand U.S. citation like 23 SB 1070 means "23rd Senate, Bill 1070" etc., or whatever it is) --Fastfission 22:05, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

  • Hansard is the documentation of British parliamentary proceedings. It is published by HM Stationary Office, [17]. I don't understand the citation, but I suppose it is referring a particular page number and paragraph. smoddy 22:10, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
  • Excellent, that helps a lot. Sorry to be so ignorant all of the sudden, I don't know much about British bureaucracy! --Fastfission 22:11, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
  • Hansard hangs out here, but sadly is only digitised as far back as 1988/9. Any yes, they're references to the volume (CCII) and page numbers (817, and 1006-9). --Tagishsimon (talk)

BTW, have you had a look at Court citation? -- Jmabel | Talk 06:05, July 16, 2005 (UTC)

name for words which are themselves examples of what they describe (like TLA)[edit]

Is there a name for words which are themselves examples of what they describe, like TLA? -Lethe | Talk 00:09, July 16, 2005 (UTC)

autological --CVaneg 00:18, 16 July 2005 (UTC)
Douglas Hofstadter would probably call them self-referential words. hydnjo talk 00:26, 16 July 2005 (UTC)
And I was calling them self-descriptive! This question bugged me, and I made a page in Wiktionary, trying to explain it to mysefl

What creature is this?[edit]

This was found in the USA [18] [19] [20] [21] and since I couldn't find a reference desk at wikispecies I thought I'd ask here.

"those pinchers did catch the persons finger who was holding it, And when it grabbed on it thrashed around really hard like it was trying to rip his finger off." 01:47, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

Wow, that's quite the bug! You might also want to ask the same question at Wikipedia:WikiProject_Tree_of_Life and check both pages since there might be more insect experts over there than the reference desk here. --HappyCamper 02:51, 16 July 2005 (UTC)
It is a male dobsonfly. Our article doesn't have a picture so feel free to upload one to the article, though if you still have the bug, maybe a picture without hands in the background would be better. It may have thrashed around, but as our article says, "Despite the fact that the males' mandibles are much bigger than the females', they are unable to harm humans. They are used excusively for grasping the females during mating. The female's mandible are smaller but able to inflict painful bites." The female's are actually much smaller as you'll see from pictures. So it was probably just trying to get away, I doubt it was trying to mate with your finger. The first external link in the article is this which doesn't have a full body picture of the male, but shows the male mandible's well. The third one has an ok full body picture of the male. - Taxman Talk 04:00, July 16, 2005 (UTC)

Sugar wine[edit]

What do yeast need to grow, besides sugar? We have had a kilo of sugar in the cupboard for several years now, and have come up with no use for it. I thought it would be fun to brew it into an alcoholic beverage, and was curious what would be the minimum I could add to it to sustain yeasty life. I have seen several recipes for home-made wines and beers that seem to be approximating this because the quantity of refined sugar they recommend substantially exceeds that of the ostensible main ingredient, but I'm interested in taking it as far as it can go in that direction. (My wife and I are both well over the legal drinking age for our jurisdiction. :))

Thanks — Pekinensis 03:41, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

You've had a kilo of sugar for several years and have no use for it? I've never considered a kilo very much — I take it you never put sugar in your coffee or tea, and never bake or make deserts? Anyway, I've made several batches of home-brew beer, and while refined sugar may sometimes be used in small quantities, it gives the beer a bad flavor if used as the main carb. Generally one uses one or more types of malted grains and no sugar. It can be done, though, but you'd need to buy some extra equipment (air-tight bucket with valve, bottles, caps, etc), and some extra ingredients (hops and brewer's yeast), and at that point you may as well do it properly and use malt. Find another use for your sugar.
Yes, yeast can grow with just water and sugar. But you pretty much would get an awful flavored water alcohol mix. Better would be to look up some wine recipes online. Googling for "wine making" gets tons, varying in sophistication. One of the simplest some friends used to make was yeast, sugar, and apple juice in one of those children's balloons that can expand to the 3-4 foot diameter size or bigger. Tastes decent, even pretty good sometimes. That may be too much sugar for some yeast varieties, so you may need to experiment. - Taxman Talk 15:00, July 16, 2005 (UTC)

Thank you for your responses. My wife did bake cookies once; I think that's why we have the sugar. My palate tends to be quite coarse, so I'm not too worried about the flavor. I'm more motivated by curiosity. I'm going to try just sugar, water, and yeast then. Perhaps there is a short-term supply of nitrogen and other nutrients in the yeast mix? Thank you — Pekinensis 16:23, 16 July 2005 (UTC)


Dear Readers, U.F.O

Why is there no discussions on this serious subject ???? or have the governments managed to convince you all that they dont exi st ? surely just the complex crop circles should twig your interest. I would suggest this subject is most important as in the near futer ie 2012 the end of time will come and its only 7 years away.

Yes i may sound like a an unbalanced being but i assure you i have travelled the world 3 times and am 68 years old studied a great many things and the governments disinformation has had no effect on me.To start with a place to find intresting stories is----




george ormondy melbourne australia e/m address is

Thryduulf 07:43, 16 July 2005 (UTC)
See also: Crop cylinders David Sneek 07:57, 16 July 2005 (UTC)
Sir, Wikipedia seeks to be neutral with respect to what different people believe. Many people believe in God, some do not Athiesm, some believe in many Gods ... that is a belief in Polytheism... which to some people is nonsense, if there are several how can they all be God ... that is Monotheism belief, then there are people who have not made up their minds, and not want to be harrassed by the believers Agnostic. The function of Wiki is not to expound on any of these points of view, but to explain in an encyclopaedia way what it all these people believe, without taking sides. You talk about when you think the world will end 2012. This is like a religious belief, that for Wiki to have anything on it, the presentation needs to have a lot more than the notion that it is true because you believe it to be so.
Unidentified flying objects are like that. If you are a strong believer, you may be offended or annoyed by a presentation that does not take a stand on whether they exist, or they are a bogus phenomena.
I saw on one of the science TV channels a special on how different people create Crop circles as a kind of agricultural Graffiti. Of course just because many of them are created by human Artists does not mean that all of them are created that way.
I am age 61 and enjoy speculation on many topics. I believe a case can be made that Unidentified flying objects are vehicles not from some place in space, like another solar system, but from another dimension of time that we earthlings not have the technology to travel into let alone detect or measure, thus any effort to capture credible evidence is doomed to failure because if anyone gets close, the UFO can retreat into a time where we cannot go. However, this wiki is not for various people's flights of fancy, or what you or I might believe, but for what can be proven scientifically. The only place here for my speculations about parallel time traveling UFOs is in Science Fiction because my speculation is not even in the Mainstream of Popular beliefs.

AlMac 18:21, 16 July 2005 (UTC)


what is the definitions of a righteous manÉ

The Jewish and Christian answer is in Micah: What does the Lord require of you but to do justice, to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God? (Micah 6:6-8)

Hearing my system clock through headphones[edit]

When I put on headphones from my computer, I can hear the ticking of the system clock. This isn't a precise "tick", so I don't know exactly where it's coming from, but it is certainly noticable and is synchronous with the ticking of the second hand when I open up the system's clock. I don't hear this from the computer's internal speakers when I'm not using headphones. What is this, and how to I get rid of it? It is slowly driving me stark raving mad. Thanks!

you probably hear any CPU activity, i.e. when you open the system clock, you hear the CPU performing the calculations required to render the clock. I imagine this is because the wire leading up to the headphone jack is insufficiently shielded from surrounding static. There is nothing you can do about it short of buying a more expensive computer with better shielded wires. dab () 13:49, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

The CPU is multitasking millions of discrete operations for hundreds of processes each second. You are not hearing the CPU. You need to experiment and assume nothing. Are you wearing a mechanical watch? Do you hear the tick when you wear the headset and the computer is turned off. Do other people hear anything? Assume nothing. Vary one thing at a time. Good luck. 09:47, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

That's a good point, but here's what I have:
  1. I certainly hear the sound, and it is certainly at the rate of one per second. With my eyes closed and headphones on, I can count 60 "ticks" and be precisely accurate as to when a minute has passed. I've noticed this ever since I bought this computer (a laptop)
  2. It isn't to do with rendering the clock, since I hear the sound just as clearly when the clock window isn't open.
  3. I'm not wearing anything at all at the moment (I just woke up...)
  4. It's very clear through any headphones I use; it's non-existant through my internal computer speakers.
So... any further thoughts welcome.

"Assume nothing. Vary one thing at a time" is the key debug technique for the unknown. As for specific ideas other than what I said before:

  • try a different headphone
  • know, understand, kill individual processes (some running program is causing it)
  • know, understand, vary individual options ("sound=on" buried god knows where; I have four such on different menus on this laptop)

I can't think of a single once per second cause of line static in a laptop - computers do everything at hugely faster rates. 10:47, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

Try taking the machine - you said it was a laptop - elsewhere; go to a different room, or for preference a different building, and see if you still get the effect there? (Maybe get dressed first, though...) Shimgray 11:59, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

Malaysian Business Environment[edit]

Assalamualaikum/hello/hi, how can i find information about Malaysian Business Environment. the information that i need should relate to the Malaysia's Geography, Demography, population,education,health,politic,legislation,economy,GDP n others that can tell more specific about Malaysian Business Environment. i really hope that someone could help me. thank you.

Assalamualaikum/helo/hai, bagaimana saya boleh mendapatkan maklumat mengenai Malaysia Business Environment. maklumat yg hendak saya cari harus mempunyai kaitan dgn Geografi dn Demografi Malaysia termasuklah populasi,pendidikan,kesihatan,politik,perundangan,ekonomi,KDNK(keluaran dalam negara kasar)atau GDP(gross domestic product) dan pelbagai lagi maklumat yg boleh menerangkan dgn lebih terperinci mengenai Malaysian Business Environment. saya amat berharap agar ada sesiapa yg dapat membantu mendapatkan maklumat berkaitan tajuk tersebut. terima kasih.


Wa alaikum a salaam! Try Malaysia for general information, Malay language for language information, History of Malaysia for its history, Politics of Malaysia for politics, Geography of Malaysia for geography, Demographics of Malaysia or Culture of Malaysia for information on the people, and Economy of Malaysia for economy information (including the Malaysian business environment). Also Transportation in Malaysia, Communications in Malaysia, List of hospitals in Malaysia, Education in Malaysia, Cinema of Malaysia, Music of Malaysia, Cuisine of Malaysia, and Holidays in Malaysia may all be interesting to you. All those pages are available on the main Malaysia page. Proto t c 12:21, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

Microsoft spreadsheet formula patterns[edit]


I'm using Microsoft Works spreadsheet and I often use formulas for which the program doesn't understand the pattern.
For instance, normally if I fill in the first two cells of a column


and drag the little corner of the box down to the bottom of the column, it will fill in all the other cells correctly:


However, I often find myself using perfectly rational formulas for which it doesn't understand the pattern. E.g.:


If I use these as my first three cells, I get


etc. Is there any way to make it understand that what I want is:

=AVG(A1:A[the row I'm currently on])


Any help appreciated, thanks, --James.

There is a simple solution to this: Simply put a dollar sign $ in front of the thing that you don't want to change. Alternatively, you can press F4 in that cell; Excel will then shuffle around the dollar signs for you. Just keep pressing F4 until you are happy. So in this case, you'd want your cell contents at the top to look like =AVG($A1:A4). $A means that the A column is fixed. When you drag this down, you'll get exactly waht you need. Try also dragging horizontally and see what happens. These dollar signs are quite good for making lookup tables and multiplication tables of sorts. Cheers! --HappyCamper 16:19, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

Hmmm, that must be an Excel thing rather than a Works Spreadsheet thing. Doing that results in my same sequence of formulas as above, but with a $ in front of the first digit (the cell it references still changes, just like above):


The numerical value of the expression is exactly the same as it was before. Also, pressing F4 while a cell is selected does nothing. Is this one of those (many) things that Works can't do?

Oh wait! I hadn't understood that O needed to do "=AVG($A$1:...)". I thought the one dollar sign was sufficient. Thanks!
Oops. I should have put 2 $ signs in my example. I lost sight of your original question when I was answering - Glad it helped though :) --HappyCamper 18:36, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

Thank you so, so, so much! I had the exact same problem on a group of nine sheets that I update daily. It was bothersome to have to rewrite the formula every day nine times, but I didn't have a way around it until now. Thanks again. --Think Fast 19:13, July 16, 2005 (UTC)

Yeah, there are quite a few nifty "tricks" in these programs. Keep in mind that these programs were written to be helpful, so chances are, these little but useful things are already implemented in them. If you find yourself doing the same repetitive and tedious thing for more than 5 minutes, chances are there's a better way to do it. --HappyCamper 19:23, 16 July 2005 (UTC)
Except if it happens to be trying to use TWO criteria for any of the functions that take them... not straightforward at all! ;) --Fastfission 00:28, 17 July 2005 (UTC)
If I understood correctly, in these cases, you could name the cells. Simply press Alt-I-N-D to do so. Afterwards, you can use this name in the formulas on your spreadsheet. --HappyCamper 01:24, 17 July 2005 (UTC)
Oh yeah, the F4 key is a shortcut in Excel. I'm not too sure what its equivalent is in Works though, but should be documented in the help file somewhere. Try doing a search for "shortcuts" or "shortcut keys" and see if you get anything useful! --HappyCamper 19:26, 16 July 2005 (UTC)


How would this website be referenced APA style?

See Wikipedia:Citing Wikipedia for sample citations in various styles. Shimgray 15:32, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

Finding the equation for a hyperbola[edit]

If it is known that one focus of a hyperbola is the origin, and there are two points known to be on the hyperbola, is it possible to determine the equation of the hyperbola? If so, how? -anon 15:22, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

It should be possible to do so, since the equation of a parabola has 4 unknowns, 2 of which are already known. In your case, you have h and k equal to zero, so all you need to do is solve for a and b. You can do this by substituting your two points into the equation of the parabola, and then solve for the unknowns with the two system of equations. Things might not work out though if the points have a particular symmetry, since there is a squared term involved. --HappyCamper 16:26, 16 July 2005 (UTC)
Correction: h and k are not equal to zero; one is zero and the other is a function of a and b, since a focus is at the origin. Which one is which depends on whether the hyperbola is horizontal or vertical; if this is not known, there will be two possible solutions. I can't imagine the situation where the answer would be indeterminate, but I suppose it must exist. Nickptar 20:34, 16 July 2005 (UTC)
Oh yes, thanks for catching my mistake! --HappyCamper 16:16, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

Wichita State University Alumni needs some addition[edit]

Wichita State University has had the owner of educating one of the US Presidents, the four star general Dwight D. Eisenhower. And he's not listed as one of the Wichita State Alumni, I'm sure he's one of the most prominent, if not the most prominent, Alumni of Wichita State. Can we add him to the list as well? Thanks.


Try the edit this page link at the top of the relevant page. That's what it's there for (and it's fun as well). Physchim62 16:35, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

Translating the Lawrence Kudlow article to Japanese[edit]

Could someone please write a stub for the Lawrence Kudlow article in Japanese? Is this the right page to ask such a question? 2004-12-29T22:45Z 17:33, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

Did you try asking on the Japanese Wikipedia? -- Cyrius| 18:31, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

No, I actually didn't ask on the Japanese Wikipedia, because I don't know Japanese. That's why I ask here. 2004-12-29T22:45Z 19:55, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

You can sign your answer with four tildes like this "~~~~" to make sure the time and date display correctly. BTW, I'm sure the Japanese Wikipedians won't mind a question in English if it's about translation. You could also look up Japanese wikipedians here using Wikipedia:Babel or Wikipedia:Wikipedians by nationality. - 07:46, 17 July 2005 (UTC)
They have a discussion page for non-Japanese speakers. Perhaps you could try it there. David Sneek 07:45, 17 July 2005 (UTC)
It can be a little bewildering posting questions on a foreign language wiki. One tip, is to learn the keyboard shortcuts for editing — <alt>-e to start editing, <alt>-p to preview and <alt>-s to save. You will probably find the rollover tool-tips are still in English too. -- Solipsist 16:53, 17 July 2005 (UTC)
If you don't know Japanese, why are you requesting an article on him in Japanese? -- Cyrius| 01:50, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

Help identify starlet in featured picture[edit]

Have you seen this woman?

This photo was taken by User:Ericd at the Cannes Film Festival, "probably in 1979". It's been made a featured picture, but noone has been able to identify the woman. It would add to the information value of the photo if we actually knew who this subject of fleeting fame was.--Pharos 18:08, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

What a great picture! I think it only adds its meaning that nobody has any idea who the woman is. --Fastfission 00:57, 17 July 2005 (UTC)
Have you asked on fr:Wikipédia:Oracle? Maybe I will... Dunc| 13:36, 17 July 2005 (UTC)
Nevermind I have, fr:Wikipédia:Oracle#Qui est la starlette dans le photo ici. Dunc| 13:43, 17 July 2005 (UTC)
(pasting the Altavista Babelfish translation of a reply by fr:User:Jean-no -- Sundar \talk \contribs 12:17, July 18, 2005 (UTC))
"During the festival, there is a habit which is to photograph these "starlets" who want to make known themselves but generally do not have a catalogue of films and even, will never have. It is quite possible that this person is... nobody."

Sorry but I don't who she was... Ericd 09:33, 20 July 2005 (UTC)


Which of the languages spoken today such as English, French, Italian, Spanish, et cetera is closest to Latin in terms of lexicon and grammatical construction?


Latin and German both come from Indo-European, which came from Proto-Indo-European, so I guess you could call them brothers. French, Spanish, Italian, Portugese, and Romanian are the five romance languages (languages coming from Latin). This isn't a complete answer, but I hope it helps. --Think Fast 19:20, July 16, 2005 (UTC)

A simple answer is that English isn't as much related to Latin as are the so-called Romance (Roman-Latin descended) languages: Italian, Spanish, and French (and Rumanian and others). English has a lot of precedents in Anglo-Saxon that the others mentioned don't.
It's often said that Italian and Spanish are closest to each other -- speakers of one can understand a lot of words -- especially nouns I suppose -- of the other. I can't comment on syntax. Latin has many cases and other syntactical complexities which I do not believe are present in modern Romance languages. Check out Romance languages Hope that helps. DavidH 19:29, July 16, 2005 (UTC)
There are many other Romance languages, including Portuguese, Catalan, Galego, Siciliano, and, more obscurely Ladino, Provençal, Aromanian, and Asturiano. My guess is that the closest to Latin for its grammar is Romanian: of the Romance languages spoken today, it is the only one that retains a genetive and hasn't added a definite article. For vocabulary, I'd put my money on Spanish or Italian, though I wouldn't want to bet large. -- Jmabel | Talk 21:40, July 16, 2005 (UTC)

Am I right to conclude that (1) in vocabulary Italian and Spanish are closest languages to Latin, (2) Romanian is the closest language to Latin in its grammar, and (3) German is not related to Latin? Karl

Well, many linguists think all languages are related, but German is only a distant cousin of Latin. In contrast, the Romances are direct descendants. Superm401 | Talk 05:37, July 17, 2005 (UTC)
Italian has had the fewest outside influences on it's vocabulary of the major romance languages, although Sardinian is an even better contender for "closest to Latin". It is true that Romanian retains some noun declention for cases, but I would be wary of getting into the often-heated debate about the origins of the Romanian language... I would say that none of the modern romance languages have much similarity to classical Latin in their grammar (they developed from colloquial Latin, which seems to have been somewhat simpler). Physchim62 16:18, 17 July 2005 (UTC)
I'm voting for Ecclesiastical Latin. ; - ) -- Essjay · Talk 16:42, July 17, 2005 (UTC)
In all of my Portuguese classes the teachers went on about how Portuguese is the language most closely related to Latin. I'm in no position to verify that, but I thought I'd pass it on. Manning 21:33, July 17, 2005 (UTC)

I think most linguistis would say the question is unanswerable because there's no objective way to measure how close one language is to another. It's purely impressionistic, and so the answer will vary from person to person. --Angr/tɔk tə mi 18:26, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

I've spoken to native speakers of Romansh and they claim that it is very similiar to Latin. --MadDreamChant 18:29, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

Los Angeles[edit]

What does los in Los Angeles mean? I couldn't find the answer in a Spanish to English dictionary.


"Los" is the masculine plural equivalent of the English word "the". 'Los Angeles' literally translates to 'The Angels'. -- Cyrius| 19:06, 16 July 2005 (UTC)
"Los Angeles"? Never heard of it... oh, you must mean El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora la Reina de los Ángeles de la Porciúncula, founded 1781 (I think it's in California), which means "The Town of Our Lady Queen of the Angels of the Porziuncola".--Pharos 19:56, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

Excellent answer! Karl.


Am researching family of son in law his gggrandfather Harris Lewis left Poland and emigrated toLondon england. On various records his name is recorded as Lewis Lewis and Harris Lewis. Some records show he came from B.S Russian Federated States would that be Balyastok in Poland and what would the original name perhaps have ben Levy. Unfortnately none of the family are aware of the original name. Many thanks for your assistance.

I don't like your chances of finding help here - unless this person is historically significant in some way it is unlikely you'll find anyone who has knowledge. Why not try a genealogy site? Manning 21:36, July 17, 2005 (UTC)

Moving to US[edit]

I am 16 and I always wanted to live in the United States. I would like to move there as soon as possible, go to highschool and then college. What options have I got to (legally) live (and get permenant residene) there. What documents would I need and how can I get them. I don't have any relatives there. I have a Polish passport and currently live in the UK. Please help me as this is very important to me. Thank You, F.S.

Visit a US embassy or consulate to find out the rules. Contact one of the many Polish-American organizations in the US. alteripse 02:00, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

I must say this sounds odd to me. My two best friends and I have been considering moving out of the USA (to Europe, most likely), as a great many turns for the worse have been happening here the past few decades (moreso than decades before, even). I hope you know what you're doing. ¦ Reisio 02:25, 2005 July 17 (UTC)

Also, importantly, see the U.S. government bureau U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services, as well as the Polish American Congress, the main Polish American organization.--Pharos 02:52, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

  • Just out of curiosity, what do your parents think of this idea? Superm401 | Talk 05:38, July 17, 2005 (UTC)
  • Let me warn you: You probably don't want to live in the United States. My country has a lot of beautiful places and really nice people, but teenagers have absolutely no freedom. They cannot go anywhere or do anything. In many communities, young people can be arrested if they're out on the streets outside of a few given hours of the day, and even when they are allowed to go somewhere, many businesses won't let them in. And you can't get anywhere without a car anyway, unless you live in New York City or somewhere like that. Mwalcoff 06:07, 17 July 2005 (UTC)
This sounds like a 13 year old complaining that his parents "make" him go to school. When he grows up he will understand that too much freedom for American teenagers is 1000 times more of a problem for them than too little, especially when compared to the rest of the world. Good grief. alteripse 15:33, 17 July 2005 (UTC)
First of all, I am 28 years old. I am not talking about compulsory education, which I suppose is a preequisite of a free society. Every civilized country has that. But I lived in Europe for two years, and it was a completely different world. There were no curfew laws; young people came and went as they pleased. I never once saw people being "carded" as a requirement to get into a bar or club or concert. They couldn't drive, but there was no reason to, since everything was accessible by public transport. Instead of trying to make them feel unwelcome, the local mall held dances and parties to try to get teenagers to come in to the mall. Despite all of this freedom -- or, more likely, because of it -- the many young people I met in Europe seemed very well-adjusted. Had I been raised in another country, my youth would have been much happier, and I would be much happier now. I can't imagine a teenager from another country wanting to go through what American teens go through. Mwalcoff 16:52, 17 July 2005 (UTC)
Well, that makes it even clearer, just in case anyone had any doubt what sort of oppression you were alluding to. I probably would not have admitted to being old enough to have normally gotten over those feelings, but be who you are. alteripse 18:19, 17 July 2005 (UTC)
"Admitted?" I don't think there's anything shameful in having empathy for others. Anyway, I apologize if I've taken this discussion out of the normal jurisdiction of the Reference Desk. Mwalcoff 18:33, 17 July 2005 (UTC)
Perhaps this depends on where you live and what your parents were like. I certainly never had any of the problems you've described. I don't believe American teens have it worse than any others. Unless drinking and smoking are a major part of your entertainment, you probably won't have that much trouble (since you have to be 21 to legally drink and 18 to buy cigarettes). Restrictive curfews are rare. They mostly come into play when teen gangs are taking over the malls and such. Just do some research into the community where you want to move. It's a huge country.
Actually, if you really want to move the U.S., I would recommend waiting until you are ready to go to university, anyway. Many international students come every year, college students have even more freedom than most other adults (since they are expected to be a bit irresponsible), and you can see how you like it before making a decision. -Aranel ("Sarah") 19:50, 17 July 2005 (UTC)
  • As I've said, I would probably not move TO the USA, but what Mwalcoff is describing I have never experienced. ¦ Reisio 06:57, 2005 July 17 (UTC)
from above: "I can't imagine a teenager from another country wanting to go through what American teens go through." I'd imagine a teenager who's employed in a sweatshop sewing clothes, or doing farm labor somewhere, like in most of the world, wouldn't mind trading that for some American-style oppression of teenagers. (I'm being a little unfair here; the original subject was in relation to Europe...) Anyway, I'm pretty well past being an American teenager too, but Mwalcoff's description doesn't match my experience either; it might be the difference between living in a proper city and a suburban wasteland, but I think that's just my urbanite bias talking. CDC (talk) 18:26, 17 July 2005 (UTC)
I'm sorry, I meant any industrialized country. Mwalcoff 18:33, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

So… Your best chance of getting here and listening to this sort of bickering first-hand would probably to be to come here for college on a student visa. If you can get accepted to an institution of higher learning here -- even a community college -- you'll generally be able to obtain a student visa. Then, once here, you can work on the permanent visa. Far easier to make happen from here than from Poland. -- Jmabel | Talk 19:15, July 17, 2005 (UTC) Ya hafta like this answer-- makes me glad I live here! alteripse 00:04, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

You might also look into high school exchange programs. I had a friend who graduated in Russia and then came here and got an American high school degree. She found out she liked it and was able to get into a university much more easily. But in general, interenational students at American universities are quite common. -Aranel ("Sarah") 19:50, 17 July 2005 (UTC)
I second that idea. If you can get into any sort of college, I would do that, but if not, your best chance is to go over as an exchange student first. Since public high schools are funded entirely by the government, they don't usually give out visas to just come over and go to school for free unless it's part of an established program. --Laura Scudder | Talk 20:06, 17 July 2005 (UTC)
Also, ending up trapped in suburbia is probably not what you're looking for as you might pick up from the bitterness farther up in the thread. I'd check out where you're planning on going first, asking someone from there first if you can. There's some really cool places to live, but there's also some really soulless places created by white flight. --Laura Scudder | Talk 20:13, 17 July 2005 (UTC)
And we can argue about anything! Lots of folks would consider the above "Trapped in suburbia" and white flight comment an astonishingly offensive, narrow-minded, and cruelly snobbish opinion held mainly by the privileged minority who have a choice or those who somehow think living in an unpleasant urban environment confers moral superiority. Most of the world thinks a single-family house with a low crime rate and a decent school would be heaven. alteripse 00:04, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
Having grown up in suburbia (a moderately wealthy suburb whose school district had the biggest suicide problem in the country in addition to a serious heroine-abuse problem due to lack of other things for teens to do) and lived in a wide variety of places since then, I don't think my opinion (and it is an opinion I acknowledge) is narrow-minded, but rather personal experience-based. Every town is different, which is why I recommended asking someone from the area, but I've lived in many places (both cities and small towns) that were much better than most of the newer suburbs I've lived in. I'm glad you apparently had a better experience. --Laura Scudder | Talk 05:15, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
It has always seemed to me (opinion as well) that the more freedom, the more money, and the less real threats and external stresses that teenagers have, the higher the rates of dissatisfaction with their environment, their parents, and themselves. The extreme of freedom may be western europe, while the extreme of affluence may be USA, but both seem to breed anomie, disaffection for one's community, and inability to develop adult ambition, responsibility, and sense of belonging, leading of course to drug abuse, suicide, and attitudes of victimhood and despair instead of gratitude for being in the richest, freeest, most privileged 1% of teenagers in all of human history. Why is that? That we are better off when our parents have not been able to overcome the ordinary challenges of earning a living and providing financial security? That if we don't have external challenges we have to invent self-destructive ones? That self-respect only comes when you work for it? That the whole cultural institution of American adolescence which we invented for the first time in human history after 1945 is extremely unhealthy for Walcoff and all the rest of the suburban teenagers not forced to start earning a living at age 16? I don't know the answer, but both the fashionable scorn of the "easy life" in the suburbs and the juvenile complaints of "not enough freedom" by the likes of walcoff seem shallow, fatuous, and self-centered. You can certainly call me a curmudgeon, but can't you see that the obvious alternative to American teenage culture is what the rest of human societies have always done: expect you to earn your keep by mid-teens, one way or another? How do you reconcile scudder's opinion that the environments with the most freedom and privilege breed despair and drug abuse, and walcoff's opinion that teenagers need even more of that freedom and privilege? alteripse 03:30, 20 July 2005 (UTC)
See, I think the problem is too few real relationships with adults too much free time instead of freedom. In previous eras, most every adult was training someone to replace them, whether a son who will get the farm or an apprentice, which meant lots of time with an adult invested in how you turned out. Now we have all sorts of cobbled together mentorship programs to replicate a system where every young person has a role model adult. This is only neceesary because the schools are thirty kids (all at the same age forming little Lord of the Flies societies inside high school) to one teacher that no one respects because society doesn't even respect her enough to pay a competitive salary. Meanwhile, dad doesn't work at home, and barely makes it home if he's a big executive. Maybe mom works, too, or maybe there's only one parent. The result is that teens have no real relationships outside their age group, and so only feel social pressures from their peers rather than from their elders. --Laura Scudder | Talk 16:33, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

To become educated you do not need to attend any school. Make sure to use up-to-date textbooks. Check out Prentice Hall,Houghton Mifflin, and Brooks Cole.

In addition, you will need some money to move into ANY country. U.S. does not provide an apartment, camp,or shelter for its refugees like Western Europe. Do you have rent money for at leat 2 years? A single is at least $600/month in U.S. Do you have money to buy an old $5000 car? How are you going to make a living? Do you know a single dependable person here who will truly help you? Only in movies and certain novels, you come with $1000 to the airport and live in a mansion in 5 years. Know all the facts.

Cost of living varies dramatically across the USA. New Jersey costs 300 times as much as in Louisiana, thanks to tax rates. Check Economic Atlas for typical costs of living ... lodging, utilities, food, transportation, etc.
In high school exchange programs, you live with an American family for a school year, in which they act in place of your parents, while your parents host someone about your age from America.
Depending on your Visa, you can be prohibited from having a job in USA.
Since 9/11 many rules got changed.
Can you afford a summer vacation in another nation? Cheaper than airplane is to work a job on a ship traveling between USA and UK, assuming they will hire you for the two voyages.
I believe some US bases in Europe are moving to Poland and other Central European nations. Perhaps get a job working at one (not the same thing, I agree) but gets you in another door. Used to be a non-citizen joined US military and part of the oath of allegiance was a route to citizenship, but that is no longer the case.
You can actually become a citizen through the military still[22]. You have to serve for 3 years or serve in a time of hostilities. James 04:36, July 19, 2005 (UTC)
Also look into Sister Cities. It is often easier and cheaper to visit one of them.
It may be easier for you to move from UK to a British Commonwealth nation like Canada. Canada is very similar to the USA, only politically to the left, like UK is, and because the climate is colder, the people are warmer (more cooperative, less independent). Watch out about climate ... UK is even with Canada relative to how far north of Equator, but UK climate much warmer and less extreme because of Gulf Stream and being an island. North American climate much more extreme, from blizzards to Heat that can kill. A tropical storm with winds strong enough to uproot a tree and send it flying, ditto tornados ... how often you get that where you live?
Restrictive curfews are also triggered by teenage cruising cluttering business districs. Suppose I drive to the mall with a shopping list in my head and am half way home when I realize I forgot something, so I turn around and get that. I just violated Indiana's law that defines cruising as driving along same roadway section three times withing 1/2 hour. The law says nothing about age. I am age 61.
The curfews make promiscuity easier since kids are encouraged to spend the nite at a friend's house, and unbeknownst to the parents, opposite sex sometimes involved in this.
There's also lots of laws not enforced. I've seen teens on bicycles at nite on major unlighted streets, with no lites on bike, no safety helmet, and dark clothing. They should be picked up by police, for the crime of attempted suicide, and paroled to their parents. They probably will get killed by a speeding car before the police can see them.

AlMac 07:00, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

Re: "Trapped in suburbia": I have a friend from Madrid who had some pretty heavy culture shock being as an exchange student in American suburbia. It took her a few months to discover she was within public-transport striking distance of a city, because her host family pretty much never went to the city. -- Jmabel | Talk 07:06, July 19, 2005 (UTC)

Forest Evolution[edit]

What adaptations do creatures evolve in forests? Do they tend to be bigger than animals in other enviroments?

The Forest Elephant is one example of a type of animal being smaller - all other Elephants are larger and do not dwell in thick forests. My guess is you'll find that generally larger creatures end up smaller in forests, and generally smaller creatures (bugs in particular) are probably larger. ¦ Reisio 02:33, 2005 July 17 (UTC)
Evolution of the Horse may also be interesting. 08:22, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

Removing epoxy from wood floors[edit]

A previous resident of this house I am now renting made a ridiculously stupid design decision (one of many) that I am thinking about trying to undo. Basically, there is a lovely wood floor in the living room which extends into the master bedroom and one of the other rooms (an office). Some idiot decided that the best thing to do with this was to go around the edges of the room with eight inches of gray tiling -- like in a bathroom or something. The result is both hideous and odd (I'm sorry if my description fails to make any sense, this defies all aesthetic sense), and is also somewhat of a physical inconvenience as they are somewhat raised above the floor by about five millimeters or something like that. Blah.

We had to pry up a few of them with a crowbar already so that the piano could sit level against the wall (doesn't it sound like we have nice and sophisticated things? If only it were so!), which was not too hard but it is clear that these tiles, which have just been epoxied straight on to the wood, will leave behind a hard and ugly glue/epoxy residue.

Now, it'd be possible to pull up most of these in an afternoon, I'd reckon, but I'm not sure if the result would look better than the current state of things, which, for its problems, is at least somewhat "finished" looking (only somewhat, though). An eight inch border around the room of scratched and old epoxy is not necessarily better.

So in the end, after all this explanation, the question is: would there be any easy way to remove the epoxy from these floors if we pried up the tiles? I've used some stuff to remove glue residues from stickers (the name of which escapes me, but it is yellow and works pretty well) -- would that work on a tile epoxy? Sanding it might work, but I'm afraid that would take a lot of effort (I don't have an electric sander nor am I keen on buying one) and might scratch up the floor real bad.

Any thought and ideas? --Fastfission 00:45, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

I don't know if sanding is the right thing to do, but if you do decide to do that then you should be able to rent an industrial floor sander from your local plant hire place. It'll be much cheaper than buying one, and you'll get a far better one that a normal hardware store sells. They should also be able to provide you with the necessary eye and breathing protection too. One word of caution: the nasty tiles may be there because parts of the edge (that you've not yet exposed) are missing or damaged, perhaps due to the removal of old fittings and fixtures. So be prepared to patch it. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 15:43, July 17, 2005 (UTC)
I've just spent the last two weeks sanding two rooms of my house and re-finishing them using those rentable floor sanders Finlay mentioned (we got ours at Lowes). Using a 36-grain sandpaper (a very rough kind), you can really sand the crap out of the floor, EXCEPT for around the edges. Most sanders are circular, and cannot sand within 6 inches of the edge of the room (for this, you need a belt sander). →Raul654 15:56, July 17, 2005 (UTC)
I would have to agree with Finlay's caution. There's probably a reason the stuff is there, but there is also always a chance the former people liked the stuff. There's no accounting for taste. Anyway, you're not likely to be able to get any normal solvents to remove the epoxy, since that's kinda what epoxy is all about. Certainly Goo Gone, which is one brand of what you are talking about will not work, since their advertisement doesn't even try to claim it works on epoxy. :) But you could try to test if it is really epoxy by trying a few different solvents on it if you haven't already. Failing that, I also agree tool rental is your best bet. A good belt sander won't run you much and wont take you long, but may take a while to get used to. If the moldings and wall surfaces are important to you, you may want to figure out something else, since the belt sander may get away from you and ruin those. They can pull pretty hard, though one made for floor edging may have a system to avoid that. An option is a rotary planer. It's got rotating blades, but otherwise works like a belt sander. Not sure you can get one that would cut all the way to an edge like you would like to do for a floor though. Maybe you could remove the moldings to get enough extra space. The advantage to the planer is that you can set it just to plane off very small amounts and you may be able to get all the glue off while taking off little to no wood. Talk to a good tool rental place and they should be able to advise you on the best tool for the job. - Taxman Talk 04:25, July 18, 2005 (UTC)

Band Operated Schools[edit]

Band Operated Schools must be administered by locally elected School Boards, and operate outside the direct control of the local Chief and Band Council.

Does this included Isaac Beaulieu Memorial School, on Sandy Bay First Nation Reservation? This school does not have an elected school board and is under the direct control of the local chief and council.

  • Context? Is this Canada? -- Jmabel | Talk 19:20, July 17, 2005 (UTC)

Setting camera defaults on Canon A95[edit]

Hi, Is there any way to set the defaults on the Canon A95 so that you can easily revert to you own custom settings? Thanks --Fir0002 01:51, July 17, 2005 (UTC)

Yes. I don't have this camera, so I can't tell you how in detail, but you set the mode to Custom, which serves to recall a set of preferred camera settings which have been saved previously in one of the P/A/S/M modes. Do you not have the user manual for the camera?-gadfium 02:29, 17 July 2005 (UTC)
Yeah I knew about the C function but it isn't really what I want. Perhaps I should explain more. This camera (the A95) belongs to my local Art Gallery. It's a camera for hire, and they've asked me to give some workshops, etc., and we've worked out the best settings on the camera (in respect to image size/quality, the light metering etc.) and I'd like to be able to make them default settings, so that when someone borrows the camera it's easy to revert any settings that the borrower changed. So the C function is quite what I want, as most people borrowing the camera will be novice photographers and will probably be using the automatic functions. Nothing, as far as I can tell, in the manual describes such a function. Hope you can help, --Fir0002 09:55, July 17, 2005 (UTC)

discontinuous universe in electrons[edit]

When an electron orbiting a nucleus changes energy levels, does it momentarily exist between those two energy levels or does it instantly swich energy levels without existing between them? --Amanaplanacanalpanama 03:32, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

  • Just as an aside, I love your palindromic username (A man, a plan, a canal, Panama!), referring to the canals original designer, Ferdinand De Lesseps - Adrian Pingstone 14:39, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

An electron in one orbital (they don't "orbit") at one energy level emits or absorbs a photon to decrease or increase its energy level and thereby instantly be at a new energy level in a new orbital. While in an orbital the electron has no exact position, only a probability of interaction three dimensional math object called an "orbital" that can have any of a variety of continuous and discontinuous shapes and called things like sp3. 10:03, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

The quantum "jumps" which are often used to explain the emission and absorption of energy in a system is an oversimplification - they do not exist! The change that occurs is all smooth. The wavefunction which describes the electron (let's say, in a hydrogen atom) is time dependent when interactions with electromagnetic radiation are taken into account. This wavefuntion is a linear combination of ground and excited states. When this frequency of light happens to be in resonance with the energy difference of the ground and excited states (just as an example), the oscillation of the time dependent wavefunction becomes rapid. This oscillation peaks when the Bohr resonance condition is met, and hence a "transition" is said to have occured at that frequency. This transition is the quantum "jump" that occurs, although this jump is not discontinuous. Remember that energy in the form of light is a wave, and hence there must be some sort of oscillation occuring. This oscillation, is in fact related to the oscillation of the wavefunction for the system. --HappyCamper 23:18, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

Tim Curry's Sexuality[edit]

I have often wondered about Tim Curry and how he identifies. This site has him listed under "gay, lesbian, & bisexual.." but nowhere in his article does it mention anything pertaining to his sexuality. Is there an answer to this question anywhere?

Please e-mail any responses to: Thank you.

Considering the remarkably few results a Google search for "tim curry is gay" and "tim curry is not gay" return, my guess would be that this is not exactly offical information. ¦ Reisio 07:03, 2005 July 17 (UTC)
The unofficial policy is not to mention a subject's sexuality in the article unless it directly bears on their notability and work. Hence, the sexuality is only given in the category. I have no particular reason to doubt the given categorization that Tim Curry is gay or bisexual; in fact I think I recall in an interview that he is gay (but don't hold me to that).--Pharos 07:15, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

Wikipedia doesn't censor. If sexual identity is ENCYCLOPEDIC for a person, it deserves to be in the article. Tim Curry achieved initial fame playing a character that was bisexual (among other things). That could be a reason for the category. In any case ANYONE CAN EDIT. Anyone who wants to can change that categorization or add a quote from a valid source that says he was or wasn't gay or bi and it would not be vandalism. 10:13, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

Playing a gay character doesn't make you gay. (Russell Crowe, anyone?) Playing a heterosexual character (or a long series of them) doesn't make you straight. (Rock Hudson, anyone?) Sounds like this should go unless there is a much better basis for it. -- Jmabel | Talk 19:25, July 17, 2005 (UTC)

French building that looks like an elephant[edit]

... it's referred to it Victor Hugo's Les Miserables... what was it called and where was it? do we have an article on this thing? - Ta bu shi da yu 07:54, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

  • Do you mean Charles Ribart's unbuilt plan for the site of the Arc de Triomphe?--Pharos 07:59, 17 July 2005 (UTC)
    • Ah... I knew we had something. However, Hugo was very definite that the thing existed. - Ta bu shi da yu 06:10, 25 July 2005 (UTC)
      • For the Ribart curious: voir "Profil de l'Edifice sur la Longueur" by Charles-François Ribart, in Architecture Singulière. L'elephant triomphal. Grand kiosque a la gloire du roi, Paris: P. Patte, 1758: Elefant.jpg! Note especially the lovely fountain spouting from the trunk! - Nunh-huh 06:20, 25 July 2005 (UTC)
  • Beautiful! I think I remember that drawing. There is a small exhibit about the project inside the Arc de Triumphe.--Pharos 06:38, 25 July 2005 (UTC)
        • I believe I have solved the Hugo question: the reference in the novel is to a plaster model of Napoleon's proposed monument, which can be seen in all its glory here. It stood until 1846. - Nunh-huh 06:44, 25 July 2005 (UTC)

Well, in New Jersey in 1881 they thought it had never been done according to this: "Retaining an architect, Lafferty, in 1881, set out to design a building in the shape of an elephant from the exotic land of the British Raj celebrated in the period's illustrated adventure magazines. Simultaneously retaining a patent attorney, Lafferty also sought to prevent anyone else in the United States from constructing animal-shaped buildings unless they paid him royalties. The U.S. Patent Office examiners found Lafferty's to be a novel, new and technologically significant concept. In 1882, they granted him a patent giving him the exclusive right to make, use or sell animal-shaped buildings for seventeen years." [23] 10:24, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

  • You (anon user) of course mean Lucy the Elephant. What a coincidence; I was just recently preparing a major upgrade of that article (not yet implemented).--Pharos 16:15, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

There's one in Moulin Rouge!.

Was José Rizal born José Rizal or not?[edit]

Please follow this link.

Maybe he got the surname Rizal from his mother, while Mercado was the surname he inherited from his father's side. See Spanish and Portuguese names: "In Spanish, Portuguese, and Catalan speaking regions of the world, people have at least two surnames. One is inherited from the father, the other from the mother." David Sneek 09:24, 17 July 2005 (UTC)
No, his mother's name was Teodora Morales Alonso Realonda y Quintos... David Sneek 09:28, 17 July 2005 (UTC)
I see his father's name was Francisco Engracio Rizal Mercado y Alejandro, so he was born with it, yes, but possibly the family only used Mercado. David Sneek 09:34, 17 July 2005 (UTC)
The above is still a bit confused, but I hope this link explains it all. David Sneek 17:45, 17 July 2005 (UTC)
Judging from his father’s name and the fact that Rizal comes before Mercado in José’s name itself, it probably could be inferred that Rizal never really was a surname to start with, but I guess that one’s for another day.
All the same, thanks very much! I really appreciate it.

homosexual rights in germany[edit]

i am representing germany in a mock united nation. our topic is homosexual rights. therefore, i would like to know germany's stand on the issue. thank you.

Currently, a generally open situation, except for non-recognition of gay marriage. You might find Paragraph 175 very illuminating for historical background. -- Jmabel | Talk 19:28, July 17, 2005 (UTC)
And see civil unions in Germany for the closest thing to recognition of gay marriage here. --Angr/tɔk tə mi 18:33, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

find out why people are declared dead when the brain stop functioning even when the heart still beating[edit]

(the above exhortation or implied question was moved from the Help desk)

Several centuries ago we learned that the brain is the organ of a person's "self." You can get a new heart by transplant and you are still "you" with a new heart, but if you lose your brain, your beating heart is just a heart. So doctors now consider a person dead when the brain stops and is dead, not when the heart stops.

That is the basic answer. As you might suspect, it is a little more complicated than that because for many centuries, and most the time even now:

  1. if the heart stops and dies, the brain dies a few minutes later, and
  2. it has always been a whole lot easier to tell when the heart stops than when the brain stops.

So traditionally a doctor would say a person was dead when the heart stopped because there were no situations where the brain could survive and stay alive if the heart were dead. It has gotten much trickier in recent decades because now medical care can produce situations in which the brain stops temporarily but can be revived, or the heart stops temporarily but can be revived, or in which the brain is dead but the heart continues to live, or in which the heart is dead but the brain continues to live. So although we have shifted to basing death on whether the brain is still alive or can be revived, there are some cases and situations when this becomes uncertain or difficult to determine. How to handle these difficult situations is a subject of much controversy and disagreement. alteripse 17:58, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

Interesting note: generally organs can only be donated in the case of brain death (in the U.S., at least). Because there are machines that keep oxygen and blood flowing (which is why the heart can keep going after the brain stops), the organs are more likely to survive to be transplanted, which can save many lives. This is one reason why it might be desirable to be able to legally and medically define brain death. Of course, it is still a difficult and sensitive issue, but there are some cases where something good is able to come out of a horrible situation. -Aranel ("Sarah") 18:11, 17 July 2005 (UTC)
If you can get a copy of controversial philosopher Peter Singer's book Writings On An Ethical Life, he has an essay on the concept of brain death, which he views as an ethical fudge to allow us to do sensible and compassionate things without facing up to the fact that sometimes killing a patient is the right thing to do. In the essay, he goes into a lot of the history of the development of the "brain death" concept; if you're really keen you can try tracking down some of his primary sources. --Robert Merkel 01:25, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

You're generally considered brain dead when you cannot pass an Apnea test, even if you heart is still beating →Raul654 01:40, July 18, 2005 (UTC)

The law in most, if not all American states, has been changed to brain death rather than when the heart stops at the behest of the transplant people so they can harvest organs, e.g. the kidneys spoil if not taken right away, so they want to get them as quickly as possible. There have been instances where the surgeon harvesting organs was ruled to have killed the patient rather than the trauma that brought him to the E.R. PedanticallySpeaking 17:06, July 18, 2005 (UTC)

Humans migrations during ice age[edit]



with this

Ice Age Temperature.png



While I was doing a map for the migrations of the human race I decided to cross it with some information from the ice age article. And for my surprise the result is that the human migrations were mainly during the colder periods of the ice age. The Bering Strait crossing coincided with a real cold period. Why is that? Is the data wrong, or is there a conclusion to be taken that i didn´t understand?--Alexandre Van de Sande 18:53, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

When the earth is colder more water is locked up as solid ice, so there is less in the sea and ocean. The lower sea level joins place that are now separated by open water. People walked the Bering Staight (or perhaps the Aleutians) because there was land there. Similarly the english channel was dry enough to walk (even farm, probably), but the rising sea levels swamped this. Places on either side (notably Norfolk and the Netherlands) are barely above water now. Also some places (e.g. the mainland of Britain) were partially covered with ice. The weight of the icesheet bearing down on Scotland lifted southern England up (like a seesaw). Now that the ice sheet is gone England is sinking and Scotland rising (this is post-glacial rebound). -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 19:01, July 17, 2005 (UTC)
I suppose as to why the coldest part of the ice age (I'm guessing here): given a couple of particularly bad winters might make a nomadic tribe move further than normal, hoping to find greener pastures (and conversely, if the weather's not too bad, there's no point in moving from your cushy home). And humans (partularly humans with basic technology like fur clothing and flint tools) are generalists, able to take advantage of environmental changes, which may drive away dangerous or competing specialists like wolves. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 19:16, July 17, 2005 (UTC)

excellent map! since you ask about the letters, they are markers for individual mutations, i.e. you can trace the migrations by watching how the letters move along the arrows. for example, the B mutation occurs apparently in East Asia and travels across the Pacific and North America to South America. I think the letters are used universally, i.e. the "A" "B" "C" alleles etc. are technical terms agreed upon by geneticists, so I decided to include them in Image:Human mtDNA migration.png.

As for the temperature, I doubt there is a direct causation, at least for the first 'gap': people were still in Africa, and I don't see how a warm period would have kept them from emigrating. It just so happens that they didn't emigrate for another 60ka or so. Further phyla that were formed within Africa between 130k BP and 70k BP are probably just not shown in the diagram because they don't correspond to large movements. dab () 19:45, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

I figured out that it was something like that. But without a further explanation the letters are only usefull to help you guide in a otherwise confusing map of lines. I believe the new map is better organized so this won´t be necessary - on the contrary they only add noise to the map (i tested). If we can figure out which lineage each letter refers to, so as to help someone inters]ested gather more information about each lineage (Aborigine, Asiatic, Indo-european etc) then the letters would be interesting. My theory is never add anything that cannot be univerally understood, suposing that some geneticist will understand... By the way if someone would be nice enough to manage a high resolution dymaxion map we could have a yet higher resolution version of this guy...--Alexandre Van de Sande 20:51, 17 July 2005 (UTC)
Oh they are called Haplogroups. I just found out in this great online encyclopedia I know. There is something about that in Supercluster (genetic). Can somebody link the letter in to the actual names?--Alexandre Van de Sande 21:06, 17 July 2005 (UTC)
I agree that the map looks better without the letters. It's just that if the human migration article is to discuss these haplogroups, it would be useful to have them in there, and I do hope that at some point the article will give that amount of detail. dab () 08:07, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
This info is great! Can it end up in an article, instead of archives from here? AlMac 07:28, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

What does Graphic Language mean?[edit]

Has the media taken another word away from us or what? hydnjo talk 23:03, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

When I've heard the term used it's been a PC way of saying "swearing", "cursing", "cussing", etc. Or avoiding words that the speaker finds uncomfortable to say, e.g. "make love" instead of "have sex". I don't know if this is the same as the context in which you heard/saw it used though. Dismas 00:47, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
"Graphic language" is a phrase that generally refers to a description of an unsettling event/object/situation that gives more detail than would suit polite conversation. (Eg: "They were caught in a sexually compromising situation" vs a thorough description of body parts, actions and noises. With a quick google I found a usage of the phrase dating from 1955, and I'm sure it's been around for longer than that. Manning 03:17, July 18, 2005 (UTC)

Make the Windows clock show military time?[edit]

(posted on Talk:24-hour clock): Are there any freeware programs that can make the Windows clock on the taskbar display in military time? I looked on Google and couldn't find any. --pile0nadestalk | contribs 23:06, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

  • Mine automatically displays the 24-hour clock. Dmn / Դմն 23:41, 17 July 2005 (UTC)
  • Here's how I would do it for Windows XP. Other versions may be slightly different.
    1. Go to the Control Panel.
    2. Select Regional and Language Options.
    3. Click on Customize.
    4. Select the Time tab.
    5. From the Time format pull down, choose HH:mm:ss
    6. Clock on OK until all of the dialogs go away
Pburka 23:51, 17 July 2005 (UTC)
It worked, thanks. --pile0nadestalk | contribs 00:49, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

Note that true military time omits the separator (:). Windows will not allow you to type a format without a separator, but you can get rid of it if you really want to: open the registry and change the value at HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Control Panel\International\sTimeFormat to (for example) HHmmss. You will need to log off and back on to see this change. Use at your own risk... JRM · Talk 18:27, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

wha is critical thinking[edit]

We have an article on it: Critical thinking -Dismas 00:43, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

Wild Chamomile[edit]

Question moved from Wikipedia:Help desk.Asbestos | Talk 23:46, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

how do u kill it . prefere a nature or atleast not kill grass around it . hope u understand that it needs to be something not drastic harm to ground or plants around it if possible. i can replant the grass but the ground needs to be able to grow it.

any help is helpful. u can answer to my e-mail ,if u put chamomile in subject line please

dla39 **AT** hotmail - com

Why do you want to kill it? Make tea out of it instead! What prevents you from just pulling it out? If you want, you can use something like Roundup, which is wide-spectrum and doesn't leave residues, which will make the area barren around it for a few days, but then things can regrow around it again. -- Natalinasmpf 19:10, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

I second Natalinasmpf. Why not use it? It's lovely! Roundup is not. --Mothperson cocoon 15:09, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

Swedish trips[edit]

What is the cheapest way to get from the south coast of UK to Sweden by plane? --Wonderfool t(c)

First - get to London. You can then fly from Luton or Stansted to Stockholm for as little as £8 one way. Check out Ryan Air Manning 03:06, July 18, 2005 (UTC)
Watch out for the taxes though! Plus, they are quite stingy on their baggage allowance MyNameIsClare talk 11:46, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
Logically, stowing away is the cheapest way, though it's rather difficult to do. Let us know how you get on. (I'm assuming we rule out taking a job as a pilot or cabin attendant, of course.) --Tagishsimon (talk)
Can you swim? That's cheaper than flying. AlMac 06:16, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
As with all air travel, the best way is to shop around, as the pricing depends on the specific dates and times you're going to travel. Also, it depends on where in Sweden you'll be going. If you're flexible, RyanAir is generally the cheapest way, but if you're going to Stockholm, bear in mind that RyanAir operates Skavsta Airport, which is outside Nyköping, some 100 km south of Stockholm. A round trip airport coach ticket is SEK 199 (close to GBP 15 and the ride takes approx 80 minutes. RyanAir also operates a Stansted-Gothenburg line. If your trip is not imminent, you might want to check out FlyMe, a company that will start to operate a Gatwick-Stockholm line (to Stockholm-Arlanda Airport[24]) October 3. If you're going to the south of Sweden, the most convenient, as well as the cheapest, option might be to fly to Kastrup Airport, Copenhagen, and catch a train across the Oresund Bridge to Malmö - and possibly further. This will add two more low-price flight operators, EasyJet and Maersk Air, to your options. As for the "classic" airlines, SAS Scandinavian and British Airways have direct flights from London to Stockholm. British Airways sometimes have really good offers, SAS more seldom so.
If you live close to one of the south UK airports with international connections, and don't want to take the train to London, an alternative might be to fly to Brussels, from where low-price flights with Malmö Aviation and SN Brussels Airlines can be found. From Amsterdam you'll have Sterling and Transavia flying to Stockholm. However, I very much doubt that these options will be cheaper in total for you.
Rather than swimming, an alternative to air travel might be to take the ferry, but there is no direct connection from the south coast of UK to Sweden, so you would have to go to Newcastle to catch the DFDS ferry to Gothenburg. It would probably not even be cheaper than flying. Alarm 00:17, 25 July 2005 (UTC)

William Henry Gates III[edit]

What subject was William Henry Gates III majoring in at Harvard University? Karl.

In a Google search for "Bill Gates" Harvard major I found several pages which assert that his declared major was pre-law, but I didn't find any sources which I would consider authoritative which mentioned that. Chuck 16:53, July 18, 2005 (UTC)
And if he doesn't say it, Harvard probably won't ever tell. They are very protective of the records of students and former students, even after their deaths. Also, I'm pretty sure Harvard (like most universities) doesn't have a "pre-law" major; that is usually a catch-all term for any track which is meant to get you into law school, but is usually in some other major such as political science or history. --Fastfission 00:34, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
I'm pretty sure "pre-law" is not a major at Harvard. You can be "a pre-law student", but all that means is that you are selecting appropriate courses to head toward law school. You still need a major. -- Jmabel | Talk 07:10, July 19, 2005 (UTC)
Unless you happen to never declare one, which may be a possibility if he dropped out before that... --Fastfission 17:37, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
Bill Gates fully completed three years at Harvard, but he did not return from his summer vacation to complete his fourth year. Since his friend Ballmer was a mathematics major, could Bill Gates have been a mathematics major as well?

Jesus of Nazareth[edit]

(1) In what year did Jesus of Nazareth (circa 4 BCE-30 CE) start working as a carpenter? (2) For how many months or years was he a carpenter? (3) Was he self-employed? If he was working for another person, then who was his employer?


You seem to want hard and fast facts about Jesus when they simply don't exist. He probably existed. He was likely a carpenter, but there are some people who argue that he was actually a stone mason (the aramaic words are fairly similiar). Only one incident between his infancy and his adult life is mentioned in the Gospels (although New Testament apocrypha go into these details, some quite extensively). At the age of 12, Jesus was left behind by his parents after a pilgrimage to Jerusalem. On being missed, he was found 'instructing the scholars in the temple'. So, long story short - nobody knows. →Raul654 03:44, July 18, 2005 (UTC)
I believe that the Gospels never detail this information. Not sure if JC was covered under an award either (sorry, Aussie joke). Ta bu shi da yu 03:46, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
It sounds like that the IRS is going after Jesus Christ. I know they are working for Satan and that's now for sure. :) -- Toytoy 06:25, July 18, 2005 (UTC)
He certainly worked as a carpenter; I saw in the movie The Passion of the Christ, which was rigorously checked against all available sources, how He invented the modern dinner table. David Sneek 07:22, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
all that is known can be found on our infamous Historicity of Jesus article :) dab () 08:03, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
And even some things that are not. A wonder to behold. - Ta bu shi da yu 06:19, 25 July 2005 (UTC)

shaolin monks--more info pls[edit]

I want to know what the 6/9 dots on the head of a shaolin monk means, and why they shave their heads

It's a mostly obsolete ritual seen only among Chinese monks. You don't see Thai, Tibet, Mogolian, or Japanese monks wearing these incense-burned marks (戒疤; jie4 ba1; [religious] displine scars). The marks, generally from 3, 6, 9 or 12 at the top of the head, are used to show a monk's devotion. You burned the marks on your head, it's with you for the rest of your life. It was a reasonably good way to weed out draft-dodgers or tax-evaders before the invention of national ID and computers.
The ritual of scar-burning started in the Yuan Dynasty and was officially abolished in the People's Republic of China in 1983. It is still pacticed in the Republic of China (Taiwan) by some, but not all, monks. Many buddhists openly against this ritual. -- Toytoy 06:50, July 18, 2005 (UTC)
So do you add more marks as you progress through your training, or do you get them all at once? Interesting... I always assumed it was painted or something... as for the logistical side of things, I suppose that's in a way comparable to Christian monks' piebald heads (although, again, it's mainly meant for religious purposes). GarrettTalk 10:03, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
As far as I know, the scars were burned on the day you are accepted by the temple. Some belived the more scars the stronger the faith. The elder monk would shave your hair, do some prayer and burn the marks. This is generally not practiced these days. -- Toytoy 09:23, July 19, 2005 (UTC)
Ah, interesting... but "the more scars the stronger the faith" makes it sound like they're done continually until you beg for it to stop or... um... something. Otherwise why wouldn't you always get a full "set"? GarrettTalk 23:32, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
A quick web search resulted in some links in Chinese. It looks like in the very beginning, some monks self-mutilate to show their devotion. They might chop off fingers and burn them or burn a string of rosary beads on their chests. However, in recent years, no one except the mad ones are so foolish. I have never seen a monk ever done that. They possibly just follow the chief monk's order. I don't know if they are allowed to request more or fewer scars. You know, "One for the money, two for the show, three to get laid ... ladies ..." -- Toytoy 00:10, July 20, 2005 (UTC)
LOL! A bit more than I wanted to hear! But thanks again! :) I'm taking a paper on the religions of India this year, so this is somewhat related to my studies. All very interesting... GarrettTalk 04:18, 20 July 2005 (UTC)


How should we pronounce the name "Volkswagen"? Please include the pronounciation in the article on the subject jojo anthony

Folksvagen [25], approximately, but for the article it should definitely be done up in IPA (not that also having 'Folksvagen' for us ignorant English-speakers would be necessarily bad), for which we'll either need a recording of a native German saying it (correctly, mind you, just because they're German doesn't guarantee they know how to say it right :p), or a native German that knows IPA, or just someone very smart or knowledgeable. ¦ Reisio 10:27, 2005 July 18 (UTC)
Sure, if you want to be all correct about it. :P The American way of (mis)pronouncing it is done by pronouncing the "Volks-" like the word "Folks" and the "-wagen" like "wagon" like the little red wagon you may have had as a kid. Yes, we mispronounce it but then some of us also say "Porsch" instead of "Porsche"... -Dismas 10:45, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
I live in the US on the east coast and cannot remember ever hearing anyone say "Folkswagon" (as the average American would pronounce "folks", anyways) - most everyone says "Volkswagon". ¦ Reisio 10:50, 2005 July 18 (UTC)
Sorry, I meant that the first part was pronounced like "Folks" but with a V sound instead of an F sound. Dismas 21:24, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
I live in south-west England and the most common pronunciation I hear is Volks-wagen, with the first sound the same as the first sound in Polka. I sometimes hear Vulks-wagen as well, with the first part rhyming with "hulks". In both cases the final vowel is best described as a Schwa. Thryduulf 11:07, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
In the UK I've heard the hybrid 'volksvagen' frequently as well. DJ Clayworth 15:05, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

checked on various german words starting with VOLK; all are spoken as FOLK with "L". so FOLKSWAGEN is a good guess: Tom

The IPA transcription of Volkswagen in German is [ˈfɔlksˌvaː.gən]. However, in English, it is most often pronounced as [ˈvɔlksˌwæ.gən]. As you can see, IPA is a way to avoid playing the sounds-like game. --Gareth Hughes 15:20, 20 July 2005 (UTC)


How did you discover the names of all these demons?

A good question! I am assuming you're talking about Demon. All of the names there are from some fictional or religious work or other so were created by (or told to) their respective authors back in whatever year, and we've merely collected them from there. We didn't exactly hold a sayance (sp?) to summon them and ask them their names over some wasabi if that's what you're thinking... well, then again maybe we did, I don't edit that page so how would I know the methodology? :) GarrettTalk 09:49, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
Someone probably looked them up. Dismas 09:58, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

See Faust for the grizzly details... Physchim62 11:53, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

Take a look at Demonology and at Christian demonology for some historical background. (The latter article lacks references, however). Gdr 14:09, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
Easy. You look them up in the Necrotelecomnicon. -- Arwel 15:47, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

sprite as preservatives on cutflowers[edit]

I've heard of people doing that, but what's your question? Dismas 21:20, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

Thank you very much in Spanish[edit]

Which is more correct: "Mucho gracias" or "Muchas gracia"? Google search finds over twice as many hits for the first (2 million+ vs 900,000), but most of those were English websites, while most hits for the second were in Spanish. Is the first a gringo mistake? Does it make a difference if you're in S. America or in Spain?

Thanks! Alex

"Muchas gracias" is the correct way to write it regardless of where you are in the Spanish-speaking world, though some spanish speakers don't pronounce the last "s" of each word, making it sound like "Mucha gracia". It is never written that way, however. The two phrases you suggested are both grammatically incorrect. --Spangineer (háblame) 12:18, July 18, 2005 (UTC)

"Did you wear the black armband when they shot the man ..."[edit]

Who said "peace could last for ever"?

From Civil War [26], by Guns N' Roses

Most likely refers to Martin Luther King, Jr. or John F. Kennedy. Their deaths both have conspiracy theories involved, supporting the "they" (whereas, for example, it is accepted that John Lennon was killed by a single person [Lennon was also killed much later than King & Kennedy, and after the Vietnam conflict ended]). Which of the two I can't decide on, but here's a list of pros for each - maybe other people can add to it or something. ¦ Reisio 14:45, 2005 July 18 (UTC)
Supporting King:
  • was outspoken against the Vietnam conflict, and the song is roughly anti-war
  • won Nobel Peace Prize
  • Kennedy is explicitly mentioned two lines later, which would be redundant
  • Kennedy was actually involved with the Vietnam conflict (though not very much)
Supporting Kennedy:
  • probably spoke more of peace in general - King was usually focused primarily on race issues
  • King was assassinated after Kennedy, so if it's King, the verse would be anachronous

Voluntary Expenses[edit]

Hi Can you tell me if you pay shop volunteer out-of-pocket expenses and what you include i.e do you buy sandwhiches if you volunteer for more than 4 hours? Do you support your volunteers with child care?

As a volunteer, no payment is required...but it would be nice to get sandwiches and some out-of-pocket expenses covered, wouldn't it? Child care sounds hard to organize, but if it's practical, that'd be cool, too. :) ¦ Reisio 15:00, 2005 July 18 (UTC)
What if we're young enough to still be considered children? Can we still reap the benefits of this hypothetical plan? Tim Rhymeless (Er...let's shimmy) 04:28, 20 July 2005 (UTC)
I think you've ended up at the wrong site; this is an encyclopedia. What site did you think you were at? -- Essjay · Talk 13:14, July 18, 2005 (UTC)
I'd like a cookie! Dismas 01:06, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

why are our bones not completely solid?[edit]

One answer is that our bones are not solid because they are living tissue and need spaces for blood vessels, etc. Also, some bones contain marrow which is vital for replacement of blood cells. Another factor is that the density of our bones is a compromise between the need for strength and the need to keep them as light as possible. Animals that need to be very light, such as flying birds, have hollow bones, sacrificing some of the strength of the more solid bones in terrestrial animals. WormRunner | Talk 15:53, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

Also, there isn't any evolutionary advantage to having more solid bones. After reaching a certain strength, I don't think making them more solid would be beneficial. -- Natalinasmpf 16:00, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

Hmm. Like the length of the tailfeathers of a peacock? :-) Biologists love to spin evolutionary tales like this, but be careful; it's too easy to be both convincing and completely wrong. JRM · Talk 17:17, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

Also, if you have a given amount of material to work with, arranging it as a cylinder creates a stronger structure than arranging it as a rod. 15:51, 25 July 2005 (UTC)

Keyboard problem[edit]

I have a QWERTY keyboard, and use Windows XP. It always typed the " symbol UK-style - shift, then 2. I liked that. However, it has suddenly switched places with @ so when I do shift2 it says @ and when I do shift' it does ". How do I get it back to the old way?--anon 16:07, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

I beleive what you need to do is set your keyboard properties in the control pannel to the United Kingdom layout. In Windows 2000, this is achieved by going to Start -> Control Pannel -> Keyboard. Then selecting the "Input Locales" tab, and setting the input language to be English (United Kingdom) and the keyboard layout to be United Kingdom. I think it is the same in Windows XP, but I'm not 100% certian. Thryduulf 16:43, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
Yes, that is correct. Also, pressing alt+shift changes the keyboard layout automatically. You may have done that by accident, and that would have caused your keyboard problem. Graham 12:43, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

In a related question, I used to have my keyboard settings to that if I typed 'a, it would automatically type á. However, when I formatted my computer, this was lost, and I don't remember how to do the setup for it anymore. Any help? I'm using XP. Tim Rhymeless (Er...let's shimmy) 04:26, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

Actually, yes. Go to Control Panel. Switch to "Classic View" if you see the option. Then, double-click Regional and Language Options. Click the Languages tab at the top of the window. Click Details. Click add. Select the language you want(UK English or US English) in the top box. In the bottom select United States-International. Close out the dialog and restart your computer. Superm401 | Talk 06:00, July 21, 2005 (UTC)
I don't appear to have that option; instead I have the top language selector, below that "standards and formats", and then below that, "Location". None of these appear to have that option. I'm a bit lost.. Tim Rhymeless (Er...let's shimmy) 08:11, 25 July 2005 (UTC)

Vocal profile is missing[edit]

Why in the Mariah Carey page,the party named"Vocal Profil"Was deleted?

See the discussion on the talk page for that article. Chuck 17:16, July 18, 2005 (UTC)

Going commando[edit]

When and where did the term "going commando", meaning wearing no underwear, originate? I checked the gold standard, the Random House Historical Dictionary of American Slang, and it is silent on the term. PedanticallySpeaking 17:02, July 18, 2005 (UTC)

The only origin I've ever heard for it is that experienced soldiers in the Vietnam War learned not to wear underwear as a way of avoiding fungal infections of the, um, crotchular region. --FOo 17:48, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
Going Commando has more speculation on the origins. --Laura Scudder | Talk 18:01, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

Aids Bike Ride[edit]

Hello, I am trying to locate a movie that I saw in the middle of the night on TV about 3 friends who went on the Aids Bike Ride. One woman was the husband of the man who died of aids and his brother also went on the ride. Any ideas on how to locate this movie. I am sure it a few years old.

Thank you in advance.

JoAnn Bedell

If you could provide us a few more details such as the names of the participants or the filmmaker it might help to track the movie down. --Robert Merkel 01:26, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
Is it The Unknown Cyclist (1998)? I found it by doing a search on Google for aids bicycle. IMDb's plot outline is "A man's dying wish is for the people in his life to participate in a 450-mile charity bicycle ride through Northern California." and a comment said "4 cyclists" (not 3), "ex-wife", and "the twin of the gay brother who is dead of AIDS.". — Jeandré, 2005-07-20t22:52z

Bob Butterworth's middle name[edit]

Bob Butterworth's full name is Robert A. Butterworth. What does the middle initial stand for? Neutralitytalk 19:55, July 18, 2005 (UTC)

  • Why don't you just email him? I'll spare Mr. Butterworth the spam and just direct you to his page at St. Thomas University, which has his email address at the bottom.--Pharos 20:08, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

Trying to track down source of Hipparchus image[edit]

I was trying to track down the source of Image:Hippachus 000A.jpg (an illustration depicting the ancient astronomer Hipparchus.

Googling, I could find numerous copies of this image online, but no information about its author or origin. (The style looks 19th-century to me.) However one of the web pages was a summary of a book, Planetary Systems From the Ancient Greeks to Kepler, by Theodor Jacobsen; if anyone has access to this book, could you please check whether it contains (probably in Chapter 3) this image with a description?

(If you find information about the image, please go ahead and update the image page directly.)

—Steven G. Johnson 21:53, July 18, 2005 (UTC)

I can check the reference tomorrow, no problem. I agree that it looks like a 19th century woodcut (in particular the details on the armillary sphere), but I'll see what I can come up with. --Fastfission 00:22, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
And that's a negative. The Jacobsen book only has illustrations of various models (lots of orbits) and lots of equations; no pictures of people at all. --Fastfission 17:29, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

Futon woes[edit]

I have a metal frame futon whose mattress pad consistently feels like it is "sinking" into the wire frame, so you can actually feel the frame under your butt when you sit on it for any amount of time. I've tried flipping it upside down but that didn't help much. Is there anything I can do to alleviate this which is cheaper than buying a new mattress or frame? Searching futon sites didn't turn up any obvious accessory which would help with this, and I'm not keen on spending too much money (in part because I don't have the money to spend!). --Fastfission 00:26, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

What about something like a block of foam, like the stuff used to make "egg crate" mattress pads? You could probably get it from a fabric store, and it would provide extra padding. -- Essjay · Talk 00:39, July 19, 2005 (UTC)
If the problem is the spacing of the slats of the frame, almost anything you can lay over the frame to decrease the spacing between supports would help. If the supports are way too far apart, only a really stiff foam will prevent any sinking. --Laura Scudder | Talk 05:03, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
A thick sheet of stiff corrugated cardboard under the mattress would do the job. Or multiple sheets if you can't get really thick stuff. Don't get the shiny coated stuff or you'll slide off the futon. Proto t c 12:10, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
Hmm, I'll check out the cardboard idea and maybe foam, that sounds like it might work. --Fastfission 17:34, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

What does "384Kbps-1.5Mbps" mean for a downstream speed of SBC DSL?[edit]

What exactly do the two numbers (384 kilobits per second and 1.5 megabits per second) mean for the downstream bit rate when SBC offers DSL? Why the two numbers? Isn't just one number necessary to describe the downstream speed? 2004-12-29T22:45Z 00:31, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

It's a range, right? Like, at the slowest 384kb, at the fastest 1.5 mb? -- Essjay · Talk 00:40, July 19, 2005 (UTC)

Why do DSL companies sell it like that? 2004-12-29T22:45Z 00:55, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

They have to, because speed is not remotely guranteed on any internet connection. The speed varies depending on load, distance from the CO, line clarity, etc. James 00:56, July 19, 2005 (UTC)
To be more specific, the problem is that when you sign a contract with them, they are promising to provide you with a connection and you are promising to pay them monthly in return. If they didn't make it clear that they are only guaranteeing you a range of speeds, then you could sue them for breach of contract if you thought you were promised an average speed of 1.5 megabits and your actual average speed turns out to be 400 kbps or something. So the use of two numbers is partially a result of the fact that the Internet Protocol suite (at least in its current form doesn't really have any mechanism to guarantee quality of service, and partially a result of the fact that your ISP has very careful lawyers. --Coolcaesar 03:29, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

Be aware that DSL frequently has different upstream and downstream speeds -- you get greater speed for downstream than upstream on the assumption that you need more bandwidth to receive images on web pages than you do to send clicks to web sites -- although you mentioned only downstream, but thought I'd mention it. DavidH 05:14, July 19, 2005 (UTC)

Blood Transfusions and Religious Beliefs?[edit]

Hello, I m a nursing student and am writing a legal-ethical paper on the above topic. I was wondering if I could obtain some information about blood tranfusions, why it is against the Jehovah Witness beliefs, and if there are any acceptable alternative's such as artificial blood (Perfluorocarbons). Thank you in advance for your help.


See this and this. James 01:13, July 19, 2005 (UTC)

Changing Firefox cache directory[edit]

How do I change the cache directory of Mozilla Firefox? Currently it defaults to my profile, which is a real pain. I can certainly reduce the cache size, but how do I change the location?! there doesn't seem to be an option in the config menu! - Ta bu shi da yu 03:26, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

  • Find the relevant prefs.js file -- it's down below Mozilla/Firefox/Profiles. While Firefox is NOT running, add this line:
That should do the trick. I've not tried it, but I found it in this discussion. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 04:06, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

DDG Destroyers[edit]

Could you advise me what does DDG actually stand for please.

Regards Garry

DDG means "Guided Missile Destroyer". It comes about from the Hull classification symbol for regular destroyer, DD, which performed anti-submarine missions onling. DDGs perform anti-submarine, anti-aircraft, and anti-surface warfare. James 04:43, July 19, 2005 (UTC)

Meyerton Enquiery[edit]

I am terribly sorry to bother you. I am struggling to find Hoerskool Dr Malan in Meyerton's e-mail address - it's quite urgent for me to have it. Will it be possible for you to find it for me. 'P L E A S E' ! My e-mail address is Kind regards Yolande

Hoerskool Dr Malan's email is hsmalanATmwebDOTcoDOTza--Jcw69 08:16, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

What is a president (in corporate governance) in the U.S.?[edit]

What exactly is a "president" in a U.S. publicly traded company? What does he do? What are his functions as opposed to a chief executive officer or a chairman of a board of directors? 2004-12-29T22:45Z 07:40, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

Presidents and CEOs are typically the same officer; often the title of this officer is Presidet and CEO, or President and Chief Executive Officer. They are typically the senior officer responsible for the administration of the company. The Chairman of the Board is exactly what the title suggests: the presiding officer of the company's board. While this may ential oversight or administrative functions, and in some companies may be the same individaul as the President/CEO, the basic job description is to preside at board meetings. The powers of individual officers/directors would be spelled out in the company by-laws, so there is the possibility of different powers at different companies, but for the most part, the Pres./CEO is the "head" of the company, appointed (employed) by the Board, and the Board Chair is the P.O. of the Board. -- Essjay · Talk 19:07, July 19, 2005 (UTC)

H2G2 theme song[edit]

What are the notes for the theme song of the Hitchiker's Guide to the Galaxy BBC tv show? --elpenmaster

I don't know what the actual notes are, but the song is Journey of the Sorcerer by The Eagles. I know it exists online as an mp3, I preusme it will exist as a midi file as well. From teh midi you can extract the score if that is what you are after. Thryduulf 07:48, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
If I have time, I can write the contour notes/chords out for you if a link to it can be provided, much like what I did here previously. HappyCamper 08:13, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

The utterance "ninety nine" and lungs[edit]

A friend of mine went to a doctor to have his lungs checked out. The doctor was diagnosing a pain in one of the locations of the lung. In addition to the typical use of the stethoscope, the doctor told my friend to say "ninety nine" as the doctor placed two fingers between different gaps in the ribs on the back. What might have been the purpose of the utterance? What was the doctor feeling for or observing? Does the pronounciation of the syllables "ninety nine" require the whole lung to function or something? --HappyCamper 08:29, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

AFIF, the utterance of "ninety nine" causes my lungs to deflate releasing most of the air. -- Sundar \talk \contribs 08:51, July 19, 2005 (UTC)
I would guess it's because "ninety-nine" is a relatively long word that's all liquids and vowels (meaning, you never stop your airflow uttering it, at least most people who don't alliterate the "t" too much)
The specific physical finding the doctor was testing for was "vocal fremitus" (if he could feel the vibrations from the speech over a certain area, vocal fremitus is said to be present there, and it indicates an area of consolidation, as might be found in pneumonia). As for the reason "ninety-nine" is used: habit, nothing special about the words; in fact, the original finding was described in German and the request was that the patient repeat "neun-und-neunzig". Words with many vowels or diphthongs facilitate the finding of fremitus: the German words have such diphthongs, their English translation, unfortunately, doesn't. So "ninety-nine", nearly universally taught and used, ought not to be used, but as physical diagnosis has largely been replaced by x-rays, it doesn't matter so much. [27] - F. X. Leyendecker 23:26, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

Linguistics articles in Wikipedia[edit]

A minor question/observation: Is it just me, or do the linguistics articles in Wikipedia seem to be rather well written? Is there a WikiProject dedicated to the maintenance of these pages somewhere? --HappyCamper 08:33, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

For your first question:it may be due to a number of factors like the sentimental attachment that people often have to their "mother tongues", and the importance that linguists are likely to attach to grammar and style while editing articles. -- Sundar \talk \contribs 08:53, July 19, 2005 (UTC)

See Wikipedia:WikiProject Linguistics and its many offspring. Physchim62 10:08, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

Of course all of the linguistics article I've contributed to are well written! *grin* --Angr/tɔk tə mi 18:20, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

Grammar question[edit]

There is a series of articles on past and present Canadian electoral districts. Where a district no longer exists because of redistribution, which is correct:

  • "Don Valley North was a former electoral district", or
  • "Don Valley North is a former electoral district"?

I believe that the past nature of the district is captured in "former", and that adding the past tense to the sentence is either redundant, or "undoes" the past nature. Another editor suggests that using the present tense makes it inconsistent with the following sentence that describes where the district "was located" (i.e., it uses the simple past tense). Assistance would be appreciated. Ground Zero 14:10, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

  • I'd lean towards "is a former district"; regardless of a following sentence changing to past tense, saying something "was a former district" sounds illogical and seems to imply that somehow it's now a district again. If tense inconsistencies cannot be worked around, why not just say "was a district" without any former at all? -- Ferkelparade π 14:42, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
  • Yes, it should just be 'was a district'. No need for 'former'. Proto t c 15:27, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
    • Seconded. "Former" is a negator masquerading as an adjective and clarity is instantanly improved by losing it. Now, any reason you're calling it an "electoral district" instead of "riding"? Sharkford 15:53, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
      • I'm quite fond of riding as a distinctly Canadian usage of the word, but it is colloquial -- Canadian elections agencies do not generally use it. They use "electoral district" or similar bureaucratically bland terms. Also, I didn't create the articles in the first place. Other more industrious editors did so. Thanks for your comments. Ground Zero 18:19, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
  • You can either say it "was a district" or "is a former district". Saying it "was a former district" is a double negative in English and strictly means that it is no longer a former district, and is now an active district. --Fastfission 20:47, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
    • "is a former district" is also wrong by usage, though grammatically correct. should use "was a district" - anon
  • All three options are gramatically correct, but not necessarily factually correct. Let's say we're talking about the late Walter Payton. If it's 1992, you can say, "Payton is a former Chicago Bear." Today, if you're talking about his career, you would say, "Payton was a Chicago Bear." But if it's today, and we're talking about 1992, you could say, "In 1992, I met a man who was a former Chicago Bear. His name was Walter Payton, and he later died." Mwalcoff 02:01, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

Constructing a perfectly equilateral triangle in paint or gimp[edit]

The completed task!

I'm having trouble constructing a perfectly equilateral triangle in either gimp or mspaint. It needs to to have perfectly equal sides, be situationally symmetrical...and fit snugly inside a Weiqi image; basically it's going to be used for Template:Game of Go Position, and all of the three vertexes must be equidistant from the edge of the circle (which I managed to get equalised - it has a diameter of 362 pixels, I believe, straight pixels anyway, it's specifically going to be used for the images with the triangles in them, upon which I just tweak the liberty lines as needed for each occurrence. The circle's four points which lie at right angles to each other are 22 pixels away from the edge of the image, which is 405 pixels by 405 pixels. Anyway, the vertex lies on a slightly smaller circle I've marked out in light blue, it's 350 pixels straight wise (as 22+6=28; 405-28*2+1=350) in diameter. So we could start from there....

The centre of both circles have the coordinates (202, 202), but the programs count from zero, so you could assume it as (203, 203). I've marked it with a tiny red pixel.

Note that I'll use "straight pixels" for length, ie. the same amount of pixels it would take if the line were horizontal or vertical....when it starts getting diagonal it gets a bit tricky and that's where my problems start. For example, both the green and purple lines are equidistant from the centre and the light blue circle, but the purple one is made up of 123 pixels, and the green one made up of 174 pixels, not counting the red centre pixel in itself...well because the diagonal length of a pixel is longer than a vertical or horizontal one. This makes it complicated. I've managed to calculate the number of pixels at 123 as the diagonal length is 1.414+ (basically sqrt(2)), which (1/sqrt(2))* 174 = 123.03+. However, this is only for an angle of 135 degrees from the green straight line, which is a problem - I need an angle of 120 and 240 degrees, as I'll explain.

I worked out a method, which involved basically finding the centre (which I did), drawing a line starting pixels away from the circle, until ending at the centre. This is the green line, (again, 174 pixels "long" vertically wise), the top of which is marked with a darker blue dot. Then, I thought, could simply draw two lines of the same length as beore, at 120 degrees and 240 degrees respectively from the straight line, and the end of the lines will reveal two points, then I simply join my three points (including the end of the green line). This is where I encounter my main problems:

  • I don't know how to calculate the length, or construct a line of such length, for a diagonal line (in pixels), that is equal to the straight line, but is 120 degrees away from the straight line (or 240).
  • I don't know how to find an angle in either gimp or paint.

I had the idea of using the formula for construction of an equilateral triangle triangle, which would help me find the three points, as I know the centre of the triangle or circle, and know one unit of its length (174), but I don't know how to go about it. I suppose I can turn the image into a Cartesian plane, and the centre, [(202,202) in paint] becomes (0,0), and the blue dot at the top end of the green line could be (0, 174).

Can anyone help me? Thanks! -- Natalinasmpf 15:27, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

Maybe try drawing a perfectly large equilateral triangle in Word, then taking a screenshot of that, and then pasting it into paint, then shrinking it to the desired size? --HappyCamper 15:43, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
The problem is that the lines have to be 120 degrees (positively or negatively) away from each other in order to be perfect. How do I do this? -- Natalinasmpf 15:50, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
In that case, why not start out with a hexagon instead? Then, draw a little equilateral triangle or a line inside it to help guide the rest of the things you need to draw. Press shift while dragging out the shapes to make them regular. --HappyCamper 16:06, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
Um...I don't know how to fiddle with these image things in the Wiki so I just uploaded a picture to your frame. Please feel free to revert if it isn't what you were looking for... --HappyCamper 16:33, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
Start with your final sentence, where you have transformed the coordinates so that the center is at (0,0) and your one point is at (0,174). By convention, this point is at 90°. (The rightmost point is 0°; the leftmost is 180°; and the bottommost point is at 270°.) You want the points which are 120° and 240° away from the point at 90°, so you need the points at 90+120=210° and 90+240=330°.
The formula for the coordinates of a point on a circle of radius r (174 in this case) centered at the origin and located at an angle θ is (r*cos θ, r*sin θ). So you need the points at (174*cos 210°, 174*sin 210°) and (174*cos 330°, 174*sin 330°). Rounding to the nearest integer, these are (-151, -87) and (151, -87).
Add back the coordinates of the center in Paint (202, 202) to get coordinates in Paint of (51, 115) and (353, 115). Chuck 16:17, July 19, 2005 (UTC)

Use MetaPost for exact drawing, not free-hand drawing programs. And certainly not Word, unless you really are a glutton for punishment. JRM · Talk 17:12, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

I must be using ancient technology! :-) --HappyCamper 18:14, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
Word is actually older than MetaPost, if you don't count Metafont which it was based on... but then, the first version of Word had no image support, of course. :-) When you're after exact pictures, learning MetaPost is well worth it. An equilateral triangle is one thing, but if it gets any more complicated I wouldn't like to be stuck with Word... JRM · Talk 19:03, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
...and done using Inkscape

Wow, I was an utter fool to ever have used paint...from now on I'll take the trouble to download gimp at school; I thought gimp was unnecessary for simple tasks of creating geometric images, but apparently I was wrong...I didn't realise there was a built-in protractor. Anyway thanks, Chuck, your explanation of the formula helped me confirm the coordinates, although paint, for vertica/y-axis parts of coordinates, "up" means a lesser value, and "down" means a higher one, so it was actually (51, 289) and (353,289) for "ancient technology", hey this method is part of the Euclidean era! ;-) Thanks all! I'm going to save this explanation in my notepad as a wonderful example of how trigonometry affects graphical design. :D Onwards! (Oh, does anyone feel up to the task of helping me antialiase the hundreds of images (or going to be used for Xiangqi) in Template:xiangqi-position and Template:Game of Go Position?) -- Natalinasmpf 20:14, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

Just for future reference, this takes about 3 seconds to do in Inkscape. Click polygon tool, set sides to 3, drag it into creation (holding CTRL if you want it straight). The end. Even less time for a circle. ¦ Reisio 22:57, 2005 July 19 (UTC)
Including perfect symmetrical alignment into an existing circle? That was one of my main problems. ;-) -- Natalinasmpf 23:17, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
One simple way: Select circle tool. Move the pointer to a point, noting the X/Y position (bottom left, just right of zoom percentage). Hold SHIFT and CTRL while you drag & create a perfect circle. Select polygon tool (setup for triangle). Go back to the same X/Y position. Drage & create a perfect triangle (holding CTRL to have it 'straight'). There's probably a better way than that, but I'm quite new to Inkscape. ¦ Reisio 01:00, 2005 July 20 (UTC)

VC, OBE, MC winner[edit]

I am searching for the identity of a VC, OBE, MC winner. He finished his career as a Major General. Other distinguishing items are his39-45 star, Africa Star, Defense medal, War medal. He also has two mentioned in dispatch oakleaves. The uniform has a 1st Corps patch.

The problem is that there were a lot of VCs won in WWII - almost 200 - and a lot of the officers will have ended up at general rank. I Corps fought in France 1940 and then NW Europe 1944/5; however, he presumably also served in Africa. It doesn't help us narrow it down, really. Again with the other decorations - they're likely to be common to most VC winners.
Can you see any other distinguishing features about the uniform? Is there a recognisable cap badge, or other unit identification other than the I Corps badge? Any coloured flashes that might indicate branch of service? Shimgray 17:53, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
You know, I think I've tracked him down. John Charles Campbell, VC, DSO & Bar, MC. Got the VC when a Brigadier, later became Major-General. KIA in Africa in 1942, so not entirely sure when he'd have been in I Corps. (He seems to be the person for whom Jock columns were named...) - does this sound like him? Shimgray 21:44, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

Please Advise[edit]

To who it may concern:

I have just received a message from Lifeisunfair reprimanding me on recent postings. I apologize if I have inadvertently published my requests for further information regarding in the wrong sections of your web site.

I have deleted the postings I included in the article section and posted them to the talk section instead.

I will ensure that this mistake does not happen again. My apologies if my mistake has caused you a great deal of unnecesary work.

Thank you for your attention to this matter.

Kind regards,

User: eddiedonovan

User talk: From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

You appear to have made some valid additions, but you also have repeatedly engaged in flagrant, obscene vandalism. If the latter type of conduct continues, you will be reported. If you wish to continue contributing to the Wikipedia community, please stop misbehaving. Thank you. —Lifeisunfair 23:34, 7 Jun 2005 (UTC)

If I observe one more instance of vandalism on your part, I will report you. —Lifeisunfair 14:57, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Instead of posting new articles for your questions, you may post them on the Wikipedia Reference Desk (found at WP:RD). --Several Times 16:30, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

If you look at the contributions associated with your IP address (here) you'll see, as Lifeisunfair says, a mixture of perfectly good edits and some nasty vandalism (like this one). I guess this is because you share the IP address with someone with a rather poor sense of humour. By getting yourself an account you'll avoid futher cases of being mixed up with this guy. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 17:41, July 19, 2005 (UTC)

Guitar amps...[edit]

Okay, I play the mandolin, right? So, just about a week ago, I bought one of those clip-on pickups and a mashall amp so I can rock out on my mando. (Trust me, it sounds better than it sounds) The amp works great, nice distorion, great volume, everything. But one thing is bothering me, whenever I turn on the amp, I hear a buzzing sound and it continues ntil I turn the amp off. Is this normal? and if not, How do I stop it? 17:35, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

Is the buzzing high pitched or low pitched? You might be able to get away with a lowpass or highpass filter... --HappyCamper 18:12, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
Guitar noise is usually caused by interference. If it's highish and sort of annoying buzz, try turning off all fans, flourescent lights, CRT monitors etc. and altering your position in the room. If it's a low 60-cycle hum, if I recall that could be caused by what's called a ground loop, try plugging into a different socket.
By 'Socket' do you mean like, wall socket? Because I've tried like, four or five sockets in my house and they all buzz, I've even tried it through my surge protector. The buzz is low, but it's rather loud on the higher levels, and it's especially apparent when I crank the overdrive up. Stupid Marshall amp, Pete Townshend was right when he smashed you.
  • Does the sound happen without the mando plugged into the amp? --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 19:36, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
YOU'RE RIGHT! Could it be the pickups? How would I fix that, if I can? I don't want to have to digitally touchup every recording I make with my new marshall, if you know what I mean.
Turn the gain down a little, and shell out on a really good cable / lead. People pay a crapload of money for their equipment, then use the same duff lead that came with the amp. Your local music shop should be able to point you in the right direction of a decent lead. Proto t c 11:51, 20 July 2005 (UTC)
If you're going to buy a really good cable, make sure to take care of it. I know musicians who won't let anyone else coil their cables. --Laura Scudder | Talk 21:01, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

Alright, I'll see what I can do about that. The problem with turning my gain down, though, is that I lose that great Mashall overdrive, and that's the main reason I bought the amp! It doesn't buzz when I play it clean, but it doesn't rock, if you knoa what I mean. I'll look into getting some better cables.

One more thing to check out: when you're hearing the buzz, does it change when you move around? For example, if the pickups are at a 90 degree angle to the amp, is the buzz different than if the pickups are parallel to the amp? My studio used to be near some power lines, and I couldn't play my Telecaster standing parallel to the lines; I had to stand perpendicular to them. That's why Seth Lover invented Humbuckers. In either of these cases, changing cables won't much of anything. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 20:12, 20 July 2005 (UTC)