Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Women in Red

"Komm rein, mach mit", meaning "Come, join us".

Scope

• The problems we’re trying to solve:

• Systemic bias towards women’s biographies;
• … and their works -- broadly construed -- such as books, paintings, etc.
• … across all languages

• Off-topic:

• Editor gender gap

What is it?

• WikiProject Women in Red, a community-led project, was launched this week.
• It is intended as a parent project for other projects in all languages whose scope covers women and their works, such as WikiProject Women Writers.
• WikiProject Women in Red is a collaborative space across languages to track all things related to content gender gap.

• creation of new articles, Featured Articles, Good Articles, DYK articles
• events
• news articles
• scholarly publications
• metrics
• hackathon challenges

• WikiProject Women in Red is a container project with links for blogs, conferences, contests, discussions (Wikipedia; Wikimedia), editathons, Inspire grantees’ projects, mailing-lists, meet-ups, newspaper articles, scholarly articles, social media campaigns, workshops, etc.

Wikidata will be used to manage the project because of its size and scope.

• We hope to collaborate with international festival organizers (example: Litquake).
• A global community-run project:
• In addition to needing editors to write the articles, several key volunteer positions have been identified: Data Coordinator; Promotions/Events Coordinator; Lead Coordinators for each language.
• We hope to establish a teaming arrangement with the Wiki Education Foundation as we believe university students are important to this endeavor. We would like to build on the education outreach efforts described by user:Kruusamägi (Wikimania submission: Possibilities for university cooperation: Estonian example) “Every academic year more than 500 articles on Estonian Wikipedia are created as part of local cooperation with universities.”
• We will seek out the expertise of WikiProject X, a project dedicated to improving WikiProjects, in order to create an appealing work space.
• Work together with the Chapters
• Build on Wikimedia’s “Address the gender gap/FAQ“
• Consider the creation of a Wikimedia User Group

Wikidata, etc.

Remember to use Mix-n-Match on Wikidata items for women!

Hi all, this is just a reminder to search for the name of your biographical article and any other commons spellings (such as initials+surname) in Mix-n-Match! This will help add extra sources to the Wikidata item with just a few extra clicks. Here is the link: Mix-n-Match. Best, Jane (talk) 16:56, 30 September 2015 (UTC)

Someone has obviously gone to a great deal of trouble to put this together but I don't think it is what is needed for most of those writing biographies about women. What we want is a Wikidata for Dummies starter page, preferably running to no more than about 100 words, explaining (a) why anyone should bother with Wikidata, (b) how to make a first entry and what is the minimum amount of information required (maybe instance of = human, sex or gender = female, given name = xxx), and (c) important potential additions (occupation, date of birth, date of death). But I must say it is not easy to enter info on Wikidata. The basic claims simply do not show up when you enter a name.--Ipigott (talk) 19:47, 30 September 2015 (UTC)

Actually Mix-n-Match is a way for external parties to hook their data up with Wikipedia. Let's say you are a dictionary of people (like the HDS) and the spelling is not a way to succesfully match your records up. You can ask to have your metadata loaded into Mix-n-Match and then if enough people match it up, the matches can be used both ways (from Wikipedia through the authority control template we can link out to the source, and the dictionary can link their entries to Wikipedia articles). Jane (talk) 21:15, 30 September 2015 (UTC)

There's something seriously wrong with Wikidata. I went in and clicked on "Create new item" in order to try to add Marina Tognetti. I managed to add the name and basic description but could not find out how to add a link to the EN wiki. No help available. Sorry, it's late, giving up for now. Not a user-friendly experience.--Ipigott (talk) 20:00, 30 September 2015 (UTC)

Wikidata doesn't work like Wikipedia. It only accepts micro-contributions. Each statement counts as a complete save. So you created the item with a label. Next you should add claims, such as "instance of" = human, "Gender"= female, "occupation" = writer or whatever, and so forth. You add statements with the "Add" links on the right under the description. Under the Add link you will see the area to add links to other projects and Wikipedia is the first one. You need to select your language (enwiki) first in order to add a link. You can take just as long as you want to do it. If someone comes along and creates a new item that does link to your article, then you can always merge the new one into the old one. It's a wiki, and though it looks very different, you can figure it out pretty easily. Eventually if you make lots of similar edits you can learn a bunch of shortcuts, but in general just adding claims by hand is the most efficient way to get started. There is no rush or anything, it's not like the item will get deleted if it is missing all statements. Generally people will figure out that you wanted to link it to an article. Jane (talk) 21:15, 30 September 2015 (UTC)

Speaking as an editor with nine years' experience on wiki, I am here to say that I'm not about to ever deal with wikidata or anything like it; I have enough work writing the articles. Someone else can do it, I refuse to and, frankly DGAF for anything that makes it harder for content creators to create content. Let me just insert parameters into an infobox and call it good. Montanabw^(talk) 21:32, 30 September 2015 (UTC)

Sorry to hear that, but I certainly am glad you are willing to deal with infoboxes! I know lots of editors who hate infoboxes too. I keep telling people that you need to think of Wikidata in the same way as Wikimedia Commons. It is a useful project meant as an adjunct to Wikipedia, but it is not a threat or a fork or anything like that. If you are curious and willing to learn, you will soon see that it is also a lot like Commons and Wikipedia. It's a wiki, with a group of persnickety editors who are interested in sharing their knowledge. Most people don't care about other languages at all and think it is just the repository of interwikilinks. Other people have moved all of their stuff there. I myself have moved all of my working lists there that I used to keep on my PC. Jane (talk) 22:05, 30 September 2015 (UTC)

So can you explain how the infoboxes populate Wikidata? Are there any WikiData for dummies tutorials online? I get confused too.Megalibrarygirl (talk) 22:45, 30 September 2015 (UTC)

Yes no problem. I will repeat what I stated above. Wikidata has nothing to do with infoboxes, and any information you put in an infobox is because you like the way infoboxes look. Period. Wikipedia is a consumer of Wikidata for the purposes of interwikilinks and the few properties accepted in the authority control template. Other infobox templates may include certain fields that pull specific data from Wikidata (I recall seeing one for lighthouses or somthing like that). If you want to build an infobox to pull data from Wikidata for say, women writers, that is possible, but there isn't one that does that ... yet. Jane (talk) 23:02, 30 September 2015 (UTC)

The best way to learn your way around Wikidata is the same way you learn your way around Wikipedia. Go to an article about a place that is well documented (like Berlin) and check out the item associated with that article. For artworks, look at the Mona Lisa, etc. etc. When you want to add an image on Commons you can either upload with the default uploader, grab the url to use on Wikipeda and forget about it, or you can look at the file template and see if you can use a different uploader so you can add your own template or put the file in more categories. It's all about your curiosity and what you want to do. I like to work on paintings, so I am pretty interested in both Wikidata in order to make lists, and Wikimedia Commons in order to categorize paintings. Jane (talk) 23:12, 30 September 2015 (UTC)

@Jane023: I know my way around Wikidata enough to create an entry, link it to its Wikipedia article, add its properties, etc. I haven't sorted out Mix-N-Match or reporting. (a) I was wondering why some biographies get a Wikidata entry quickly while others don't. Do you know what triggers someone who's "working" at Wikidata to spot an article on Wikipedia and create an item for it at Wikidata? If we knew the magic trigger, it would be helpful to those who don't want to dabble in Wikidata themselves. (b) I am very interested in Max Klein's WIGI work. We spent some time together in July in Mexico City and discussed his research and the work that Roger and I were doing (creating this WiR project). His time is pretty tight these days as he's working on his Ph.D. and I haven't seen anything more about WIGI data, although maybe I'm not looking in the right place. Now that I've seen your research, I find it very interesting and I'd like to sort out how to run the reports myself so that I can replicate the data, but I don't understand the process. --Rosiestep (talk) 02:53, 1 October 2015 (UTC)

As a Wikipedian, you are a curator of content, including your own content. It is up to you to see how your content is reused on other projects. Personally Ì prefer to curate that content as well. It's that simple. So Wikidatans generally create items, then articles, as I said before. Wikipedians who dislike or who are confused by Wikidata don't touch it and that is a shame. There are various bots and I suppose Wikignomes who create items for orphaned articles, but I have only done this on rare occasions when something has crossed my path. I don't know about who is behind those item creations, but I am sorry that you feel unable to create your own items. Running reports is easy with autolist and there is a help page to get you started. Jane (talk) 07:49, 1 October 2015 (UTC)

• Pigsonthewing explained somewhere that properly formatted infoboxes can also emit whatever is needed for wikidata. There is zero reason any content editor should be required to be a programmer to create an article. Certain basic formatting requirements, such as infobox content (and there are infoboxes in well over half of all WP articles) should emit the microdata or whatever it is for wikidata to pick it up. It's all magic pixie dust to me. Montanabw^(talk) 03:10, 1 October 2015 (UTC)
  • The "emitting" as you say is not done automatically, but semi-automatically by someone who cares about that specific article. If I knew of a link to give you that would create the Wikidata item based on the infobox I would give it to you. The other way around, namely creating a short stub + infobox from a biography item, is a tool I use quite often and it is called PrepBio . Jane (talk) 07:49, 1 October 2015 (UTC)

For the record, I am not a developer and do not program on Wikipedia, Wikidata, or Wikimedia Commons. I do use lists and tools to manage those lists, such as Listeria (for example I created the "List of paintings by Jacob van Ruisdael" after working on the userfied list User:Jane023/Paintings by Jacob van Ruisdael. I just keep searching the list for various things, such as catalog numbers, or museum names, or items in the depicts field (such as "waterfall"). I enjoy working on sets of paintings and 17th-century Dutch painters, and as I do the work, I become better at using Wikidata for curation purposes. I feel that Wikidata has made this much much easier since I worked on my "List of paintings by Frans Hals". I only just noticed that the "List of paintings by Rembrandt" needs some Wikilove so maybe I will work on that next. On International Women's Day, March 8th I created a list based on a book called Women Painters of the World and tried to do as many women on that list as possible. Jane (talk) 07:58, 1 October 2015 (UTC)

Infoboxes, Wikidata, DBpedia, Persondata

These terms have come up in recent discussions. I must say I am becoming more and more confused about what is needed when drafting a Wikipedia article and what is not. Past discussions refer to tie ups between infoboxes and DPpedia and more recent proposals have been made on developing infobox structures which are more compatible with Wikidata. There are also queries on who, why or how data from a Wikipedia biography is transferred to Wikidata: maybe by hand (there seem to be people reviewing new articles and adding basic data to Wikidata), by means of the "authority control" tag/mechanism, or in certain cases (I believe dates of birth and death have been mentioned) from infoboxes created in new articles. It seems to me that all this is extremely confusing even for experienced editors, never mind the newbies we are trying to attract. And I have a sneaking feeling, with a few notable exceptions, that women are less keen to delve into all this jargon and database creation than men. Indeed, it has frequently been pointed out that Wikipedia is far more of a computer programmers' environment than a content creation site accessible to all and sundry. While I would like to thank Jane023 for the time and trouble she has taken to give some basic information on how to add information to Wikidata, it seems to me that what we need above all is a simple guideline on: a) what essential information should be included in Wikipedia biographies on women; b) how should this information be formatted (in the article lead, in an infobox, or on Wikidata).

Once this has been clarified, we can no doubt then set about having bots developed to pick up key data from the articles themselves or to assist editors while they are creating new articles. For example, a Wikidata prompt/ in the LH margin (similar to the existing interwiki language link) could turn up a box and/or Wikidata creation format which would simplify the addition of key information. There seem to be considerable weaknesses in the existing approach: there is no guarantee that important information is recorded anywhere (now that Persondata is on the way out); the amount of information on Wikidata seems to depend above all on the efforts made by editors other than the article creator; and there is no simple tie up between Wikipedia and Wikidata allowing the information to be checked/corrected.

Are these issues for Women in Red or should we just hope that things continue to improve?

(I hesitate to complicate matters but as Pigsonthewing has been mentioned, User:Pigsonthewing/Persondata may be of interest. There are also extensive discussions of the development of bots for Wikidata.)--Ipigott (talk) 08:32, 1 October 2015 (UTC)

Infoboxes are a tool to help readers glance at Wikipedia pages. They should sum up the article at hand. They are only located in Wikipedia articles. You will not find them on Wikidata or on Wikimedia Commons (Commons uses something called galleries, which can be included on Wikipedia articles, but which are also not on Wikidata). I believe infoboxes are relevant to this project and should be used on all articles about women (though sometimes you just don't have enough information for an infobox). Wikidata is a Wikimedia project external to Wikipedia, along the lines of Wikimedia Commons, Wikisource, Wikivoyage, Wikibooks, etc. Wikidata is highly relevant to this project, as it can give you access to lots of data about women who do not have articles yet on the English Wikipedia, but who may have detailed articles that can be translated from other language wikis. DBPedia is not a Wikimedia project. It is a third party website that scrapes Wikipedia and only uses information it gathers from infoboxes. I believe the project is considering moving its target to Wikidata, but I don't know. As far as I know, there is nothing useful to this project in DBPedia and I wouldn't worry about it as a Wikipedian. Persondata is an old Wikipedia project that was started by the German Wikipedia and was used in the English Wikipedia for years before Wikidata was born. Wikidata is generally more up-to-date for these articles today. I believe it depends on the domain. If you are creating a new article, you should certainly not add a persondata template! You can better add that data in an infobox. Of course, if all you want to do is create articles on Wikipedia without infoboxes or worrying about other projects, that is fine. Your contributions will not be included on Wikidata until someone creates an item for them. I believe this will happen eventually, but I have no idea what the backlog is. Hope it helps. Jane (talk) 08:48, 1 October 2015 (UTC)

@Jane023: you hit the nail on the head. If we create an article on Wikipedia, and if there isn't a relevant item for it on Wikidata, it isn't accounted for by the WIGI tool or scholarly research that uses Wikidata to measure content (gender gap or otherwise) on Wikipedia. We need a tool to interface between the two, which resides on Wikipedia as that's where the content editors are spending their time, not the other way around (a form in Wikidata that when completed creates a stub-like article on Wikipedia). --Rosiestep (talk) 13:26, 1 October 2015 (UTC)

@Rosiestep: The whole point is that if you reverse your workflow, then you only need to input the information once. So first Wikidata, then Wikipedia. The problem with going from infoboxes to Wikidata is that those infoboxes take free form inputs by definition, to make it as easy as possible to fill in. So for example in a birthplace field of a biographical infobox, this may be a house, a village, a county, province, or country, based on the information at hand. Depending on whether there is an article for the place, it may include double brackets or not. Occasionally you may see something like "New York City or White Plains", which is not a place, but the best information that the Wikipedian had at hand who typed it in. In Wikidata, when you input the birthplace field, you have to be very specific and this enables Wikidata to know just what it is you are referring to. So you could type in "White Plains" and add a link to the source where that was stated, and then also add "New York City" with a link to the source where that was stated. I hope this makes it clear why you couldn't make a program to copy from Wikipedia to Wikidata. It just won't have the desired results. At the end of the day, this will always be handwork. You can delay it for a year or two, there's no hurry, but it should be done someday. Jane (talk) 16:47, 1 October 2015 (UTC)

@Jane023: I may try to change my pattern and create an item in Wikidata first, but I'm just one person. I don't have any expectations that others will follow suit when it seems clear to me that most Wikipedia editors don't want to engage in the Wikidata universe. We're lucky we have @Missvain: signed up for our next edit-a-thon (Wikipedia:Meetup/Women in Red/3) with a note that she'll deal with the Wikidata piece (thank you!). What bothers me is wondering how many of the articles created at WiR's first two events, Wikipedia:Meetup/Women in Red/1 and Wikipedia:Meetup/Women in Red/2, were added into Wikidata? I'd venture it's a small number. And what keeps me up at night -- yes, really does keep me up at night -- is wondering how many of the women bios created in September through the WiR program have a WikiData item (see here Wikipedia:WikiProject Women/Women in Red#Metrics (new articles) and the balance are here Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Women/Women in Red/Metrics#September)? If the answer is "only a few", then maybe my time would be better spent creating Wikidata items for WiR's biographies instead of some of the work I do do on Wikipedia. I would not want to ask anyone else to do that as it defeats the purpose of what we're trying to do... create more women's biographies. It's disconcerting to think that we started this Wikiproject in the hopes of "moving the needle" in terms of percent of women's biographies only to find out that our efforts on Wikipedia are not specifically accounted for in the Wikidata/WIGI universe unless someone deals with the Wikidata piece. --Rosiestep (talk) 02:03, 2 October 2015 (UTC)

@Rosiestep: That is so sweet to read! It is very nice of you to worry about all of that, but let me remind you that this is an encyclopedia, so there is nothing urgent here -ever! Those Wikidata items will eventually get created and have statements added to them, believe me! As far as managing a Wikimedia project goes, welcome to my world! For years now in Wikimedia Netherlands we have racked our brains how we can measure our progress as a chapter. What should we measure? How should we measure it? Have a look at the presentations on Wikimetrics and then look at some of those videos of Wikimania attendees demonstrating how they edit on mobile for some sobering thoughts on how terrible we are at both measuring impact and helping mobile-first editors. So don't sweat the gap between new articles created and lack of Wikidata items - it's not an issue so don't make it your issue. Sure those new articles created just on Wikipedia won't get counted in Wikidata queries today, but they will get counted next year and so forth. Each day lots of people are working on ways to help Wikipedians use Wikidata better and the other way around. This will improve. If you are uncomfortable on Wikidata and making queries, then just stay on Wikipedia within your comfort zone and take small steps. You will figure it out eventually, it's not rocket science. And have faith in the crowd-sourcing model. Articles will get Wikidata items, followed by people playing the gender game on the Wikidata game, linking those items to women or people playing with matching in Mix-n-Match adding sources to those items. You don't need to do all that on your own, and you certainly don't have to teach others to do that if you aren't comfortable doing that. Even today, Google indexes Wikipedia and not Wikidata (though I suppose this too may change eventually - I have noticed that Google has indexed Wikimedia Commons files of photos of people without Wikipedia articles). So spreading your knowledge just by contributing to Wikipedia is a perfectly sound approach that has the biggest impact in the long run I think. Jane (talk) 06:25, 2 October 2015 (UTC)

Rosiestep, you are a jewel. Truly. I tried, again after yesterday's fiasco of trying to add 3, and I managed to make one entry that I cannot figure out how to delete and add another that is anything but complete. I used that mixmatch thing to search for Shadi Amin and her alias Soheila Amintorabi getting no matches, I added it, but when I went to link it to a document, it told me an entry already existed??? So, I added the alias to the entry already there and have no idea how to delete the second one. Rather than use that mixmatch which did not give me a hit on Amin, I added Annalee Stewart and input her and her VIAF identifier, but when I tried to copy paste other info, it kept telling me there was an error, so I gave up. If we can get clear instructions on how to do this, I will help, but honestly think my forte is creation of articles and not the technical stuff. I honestly cannot believe that there is no way to automate this process, which is what I know we had both hoped for. SusunW (talk) 03:43, 2 October 2015 (UTC)

SusunW, thanks so much for trying! Don't worry about deleting mistakes. In general items are never deleted, but just merged. If it is a really basic mistake on creation (so no way of knowing what it should be merged to), those items will eventually turn up on someone's list and be cleaned up either by a mass deletion or reuse. Don't worry about it. Glad that you looked in Mix-n-Match but it's of course always a gamble when it comes to the ladies - they often don't make it into the sources on their own, but only included in their husband's, father's, or son's entry. Jane (talk) 07:58, 2 October 2015 (UTC)

Some background info

Thanks for inviting me here. As a general response to the above:

• Infoboxes provide structured data, which can be read by computers ("Machine-readable data").
• They emit microformats, which make the data readable using non-proprietary standards (standards used commonly on the web, not just Wikipedia)
• A lot of data was ported from Wikipedia to Wikidata, by reading it from infoboxes
• If a new Wikidata property is created, a bot may read corresponding data from Wikipedia infoboxes
• Conversely, it is now possible to populate infoboxes, and other templates, (on this and many other-language Wikipedias) by calling data from Wikidata
  • This is important, because it allows facts to be stored, and changed once, but to be displayed on up to 290 different Wikipedias, plus other sister projects.
  • Examples of such templates, other than infoboxes, include {{Authority control}} & {{Official website}}.
• For every new Wikipedia article a Wikidata item should be created (unless one exists already, of course)
• Tools exist to do batch updates to, or item creation on, Wikidata
• We lack a tool which will take a single new Wikipedia article, read data from its infobox (and other templates/ categories), and create a corresponding Wikidata item - but there is definitely potential for one to be provided
• When I get the chance, I will write a (or make a video) guide to creating and updating a Wikipedia item
• Persondata is deprecated, and should not be used. Please remove it if you find it in an article you're editing.
• DBpedia is a non-WMF project that reads data from Wikipedia (infoboxes, other templates) and puts it into an alternative machine-readable format. You don't need to worry about that.
• There are lots of tools that let people contribute to Wikidata, with a human-friendly interface. For example, the Wikidata game.

I hope that's answered everyone's questions; please let me know if I've missed anything, or if you'd like further clarification. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:04, 1 October 2015 (UTC)

@Andy: "We lack a tool which will take a single new Wikipedia article, read data from its infobox (and other templates/ categories), and create a corresponding Wikidata item - but there is definitely potential for one to be provided". As there is "potential for one to be provided", is anyone working on developing it, and if not, why not? It seems like a very obvious necessity as Wikipedia's content producers don't seem to want to to take part in the Wikidata universe. I've jumped the broom myself and I do create Wikidata items for articles I start on Wikipedia, but I do so only when I have the time/inclination to do so, mostly after creating an article with a VIAF identifier so that there's the link with Authority control. As for Persondata, I'm curious why there isn't a bot running to delete that information from articles as it is superfluous and has been for well over a year. --Rosiestep (talk) 13:40, 1 October 2015 (UTC)

"Wikipedia editors prefer not to edit and outsource their content on a different Wiki" (Wikidata): In case anyone wants to make your comments heard elsewhere, there's someone working on this issue as part of a bachelor thesis and they are seeking comments here. --Rosiestep (talk) 13:10, 1 October 2015 (UTC)

@Rosiestep: Your guess is as good as mine, but factors at play may include lack of volunteer availability, complexity (lots of different, inconsistent, infoboxes), would only work for one language, and not seeing the value - I'd certainly challenge that last one. I don't have the necessary coding skills, but I'd be delighted to work on this with anyone who does. As for persondata, there's a further RfC, for which I've just requested a close. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 14:08, 1 October 2015 (UTC)

Thanks @Andy: for providing all these details. I support Rosiestep 100% in the need to improve the interfaces between new articles on Wikipedia and Wikidata. Perhaps you could bring this to the attention of your colleagues on Wikipedia and Wikidata in the hope that we can quickly find a solution. It has occurred to me that a fairly simple facility for creating both infoboxes and Wikidata entries based on a restricted dataset (name, first name, dates of birth and death, place of birth and death, main occupation) would facilitate our work and free our contributors from repeating information on the same person two or three times. I imagine it would be reasonably simple to define this more clearly and allow the rest to be done by bots. Do you think there is any chance of initiating work in this direction? Do you agree it would be useful?--Ipigott (talk) 15:52, 1 October 2015 (UTC)

I agree and also note that I fluctuate between using infoboxes and not. Depends on how much time I have to input them, but one of the things I noted in the link Andy provided above was the loss of name-same data in the migration to Wikidata. This is critical for women and needs to be addressed. Maiden name in countries wherein a woman changes her surname is often critical data for determining who she is. I recently ran into this very issue and found a huge clue that had been missing from all accounts of the architect E. E. Holman's life, as a census record listed a daughter with another surname. That surname led me to Holman's marriage and thus her birth date which was previously not shown in any biography of her that was written. With the Spanish women I do, the template for Spanish naming is valuable giving both primary and secondary surnames, but then the question is do you list the article name as birth name with married "de hubby" as an alternate or list the full married name. I tend to go with the name notability was derived under, but make sure that all known variants are in the article. None of this even touches on pseudonyms. Thus, when we are addressing the Wikidata thing, we need to address the name issue for women, IMO. SusunW (talk) 16:28, 1 October 2015 (UTC)

SusunW, multiple common spelling of names, with or without the married name, is a common problem. On Wikipedia we have redirects for that, and on Wikidata we have aliases. I agree that best practise is to use the name notability was derived under, as this is the name recorded in various databases in Mix-n-Match. When you make links in Mix-n-Match, you add those sources to the item. So in the example yesterday that you gave, I searched for the Olschak name in Mix-n-Match and it came up with two hits that I linked to the item, and one of these triggered the authority control template. It is a problem though that the authority control template only seems to take a small number of library sources. Jane (talk) 16:53, 1 October 2015 (UTC)

Nevertheless, one of the most helpful aspects of the old Persondata was name variations. Now that we are told these data should be deleted, it would be helpful to know that someone somewhere (Wikidata?) was absorbing the research carefully undertaken over the last ten years or so. I have spent considerable time and trouble documenting name variations in Persondata but now Pigsonthewing is instructing us simply to delete it! Maybe it's not much of a problem for the English-speaking community but it can be extremely important for the Spanish and Portuguese speaking communities in Iberia and Central and South America as well as for the Japanese, Chinese and Koreans. Should the existing research really be deleted without any safeguards?--Ipigott (talk) 20:25, 1 October 2015 (UTC)

No, I'm not telling you "simply to delete it"; that was the consensus of a well-attended RfC, which considered the matter in detail. I'm not clear, though, how it was ever "most helpful", for the reasons outlined in the essay page linked in an earlier section. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 20:39, 1 October 2015 (UTC)

Unlike persondata, Wikidata distinguishes between birth names, pen names, honorifics, nicknames, and other forms of alternative names. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 20:44, 1 October 2015 (UTC)

You find a link to this information (and a women-related user box) on WP:QAIPOST where you can post yourself whatever you think may help article quality. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gerda Arendt (talk • contribs) 08:23, 2 October 2015‎

Further to the above, this tool parses infoboxes (and other templates) and copies the data to Wikidata. You need to specify a single Wikidata property and the template parameter that it corresponds to. If the template parameter value is polluted with extraneous material such as references (or presumably text in a numerical or date field; I've note encountered this), it fails with a warning. If it includes things like parenthetical comments in text fields, they are copied across, and need to be manually adjusted afterwards. Of course, it also fails to read data from articles without infoboxes... Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:12, 26 October 2015 (UTC)

Women in Architecture Template

Hi! Here is the basic template to tag pages that result from the Women in Architecture virtual initiative. Megalibrarygirl (talk) 22:38, 1 October 2015 (UTC)

@Megalibrarygirl you (or anyone else) use this template on articles generated by our recent Women in Architecture event, and if so, do you have any feedback? --Rosiestep (talk) 14:15, 26 October 2015 (UTC)

@Rosiestep:, I didn't, since I didn't get any feedback on the template itself... and then I got distracted. >.< Megalibrarygirl (talk) 14:31, 26 October 2015 (UTC)

November's Women in Science event, sponsored by the NY Academy of Science

@Rosiestep: I have also been searching (unsuccessfully) for details of the NY Academy of Science event but could not find anything. If this is a firm date, then I think we should support it.--Ipigott (talk) 07:58, 22 October 2015 (UTC)

Pharos and I are working on this with the NYAS folks and once we have details sorted out, we'll get a NYC meetup page created, and a WiR meetup/virtual edit-a-thon page created. We have a planning meeting with NYAS next week so Wikipedia event pages will be created after that, on or before November 1st. --Rosiestep (talk) 14:37, 22 October 2015 (UTC)

@Ipigott: I've started Women in Science virtual edit-a-thon. Pharos will be able to flesh out some of the details from today's NYAS phone call, but the WiR meetup page is up so that anyone who is so inclined can work on it, plus the invitation, thank you note, etc. --Rosiestep (talk) 02:01, 27 October 2015 (UTC)

• The in person event is here: Wikipedia:Meetup/NYC/NYAS.
• The sponsor is: New York Academy of Sciences.
• Dates: do these dates look ok? The NYAS folks liked the idea of our virtual event preceding their ground event as they believe some of the NYAS edit-a-thon attendees may like to improve an article vs. creating one from scratch, but we have some latitude with dates.

@Rosiestep: This looks like another opportunity to forge ahead on biographies. I think the event should also be closely coordinated with WP Women scientists and their members and participants. I've also suggested the Women scientists template should be included on the talk pages for new articles (maybe together with Women's history if appropriate). The Women scientists talk page also has some interesting new red links which could usefully be added to our own list. As for the dates, maybe we should start on Saturday, the 14th and end on Tuesday, the 24th. That will give us a couple of days to work on some of the new articles from the NYC event (while also avoiding a start on Friday, the 13th!). Fortunately, I won't have to spend so much time on preparing lists of red links although I would have liked to see wider coverage of women from the non-English speaking world. SusunW might be able to help. Maybe we should wait a few days before we send out invitations although I think it would be useful to inform other relevant WikiProjects at the very beginning of November. Could we not include a full introduction in running text on Wikipedia:Meetup/Women in Red/4? I'm not too good at finding information in boxes. It took me quite a while before I found your proposed dates. And should we not include the New York Academy of Sciences logo in our communications?--Ipigott (talk) 08:20, 27 October 2015 (UTC)

@Ipigott: agree; I emailed Keilana about it yesterday. :) Yes, Wikipedia:Meetup/Women in Red/4 needs the running text we normally include; I didn't have time to deal with it because of RL (work, family, etc.). As for redlist(s) we should add all the names we want to add. The NYAS event will focus on women scientists in general. I've asked NYAS for a redlist of their members who might meet notability standards, and I believe they've started working on that list. As for changing the dates to 14-24, yes, that works. Let's send out invitations on November 1st-ish. Suggest we use 3 logos: WiR, NYAS, WikiProject Women Scientists. --Rosiestep (talk) 14:46, 27 October 2015 (UTC)

@Ipigott and Rosiestep: yes, I'll help in whatever way I can. This one I can write articles for, the next one I'm not sure about. And to give credit where credit is due Megalibrarygirl has spent hours and hours on these lists. I have no doubt she will be helping too. SusunW (talk) 14:52, 27 October 2015 (UTC)

@Ipigott, Rosiestep, and SusunW:, I redid the Women in science list and categorized it by type of science. I hope that works better. I could also split it by nationality, but most of the scientists are UK/US right now anyway. I also redid the women artists list, since the way the WikiProject Women artists has their lists set up confused the heck out of me. I tried to find at least one source for everyone on both lists, too. :) Megalibrarygirl (talk) 15:00, 27 October 2015 (UTC)

@Megalibrarygirl: I like how it's catagorized by type of science, and I've added a bunch of anthropologists to the list... go figure. :) (... I'm the armchair anthropologist whose father wouldn't let her major in anthropology as he thought it was impractical.) --Rosiestep (talk) 04:22, 28 October 2015 (UTC)

@Ipigott:, I'm going to add the women from the talk page on Women scientists to our list and try to get links. I think it helps people in the editathon to have some links to start with. Megalibrarygirl (talk) 15:06, 27 October 2015 (UTC)

@Rosiestep, Megalibrarygirl, and SusunW: Hey y'all, Women Scientists and User:Gobonobo and I all maintain lists of redlinks. I'm happy to throw some up with some sources if you think that'd help. I'm super looking forward to participating! Hell yeah women scientists! Keilana (talk) 15:17, 27 October 2015 (UTC)

@Keilana:, I pulled many of the names from the scientist list on Women Scientists, but I categorized them by field and tried to add references. If you want to add a link, please do. If you have a reference, add it, and if you don't, I'll try to source one if I see any without reference. Thanks so much for helping me to add to the list. :D Megalibrarygirl (talk) 15:30, 27 October 2015 (UTC)

@Megalibrarygirl: Awesome!! I'll go through and add some in the next few days when I have a spare moment. User:Gamaliel may also be useful, I know he's collecting some resources as well. Keilana (talk) 15:36, 27 October 2015 (UTC)

@Rosiestep:, we've made two editathons on women architects, one in Argentina and the other one in Spain at the same time. You can visit Wikiproyecto:Mujeres. I dont know why it is linked to Wikipedia:WikiProject Women's History since it should be linked to WikiProject Women and Women in Red. --Jalu (talk) 14:58, 27 October 2015 (UTC)

Hi @Jaluj in Argentina! This is awesome! If you'd like to add links to your articles at Wikipedia:Meetup/Women in Red/3 (Women Architects), please do so, but not necessary if you'd rather not! I hope Wikiproyecto:Mujeres is ready to create articles on Women Scientists because we're going to make huge progress on that in November and we can use your help in Spanish and any other languages! Here's our virtual meetup page Wikipedia:Meetup/Women in Red/4 (Women Scientists); feel free to add yourself as a Facilitator in the Infobox if you'd like to assist with Spanish language in person or "virtual" women scientist edit-a-thons during November... and someone in Spain can do so, too, and so on. Yay! --Rosiestep (talk) 02:51, 28 October 2015 (UTC)

• @Rosiestep: I've expanded Wikipedia:Meetup/Women in Red/4 but have again changed the dates after realizing that the Academy of Sciences event is to last a whole week from November 22. I also think that with the huge number of red links we have, we can easily work on new biographies of Women in Science for a full two weeks rather than just ten days. There is already a list of prominent women from the Academy of Sciences on the NYAS page. @Megalibrarygirl: Thanks for all your work and updates on our "Women science and technology" list. The breakdown by areas of interest is very useful. Maybe we can just include women from other countries in each section, perhaps specifying dates and country. I think the international coverage has helped a lot with our other editathons and would like to offer the same opportunities this time too. Another concern is that the full list as it stands at the moment is rather daunting. Can you think of any way in which we could highlight the really notable women, or possibly create a subset for the editathon?--Ipigott (talk) 15:35, 27 October 2015 (UTC)

@Ipigott:, if you want, I can break down most of the areas by nationality, too, since I tried to figure that out also. If I knew, I added it next to the redlink. As for breaking out the really notable ones, that might be a good idea. We could pull the ones I found with 3 links or more to start with and highlight them on the edit-a-thon page. Megalibrarygirl (talk) 15:40, 27 October 2015 (UTC)

I think breaking it down by subfield is also a good idea. If we broke it down by subfield and by nationality we could get a way more manageable chunk. From my experience getting people to write about women in science, they look for people from a specific field and then pick kind of at random (or whoever has an amusing name... Icie Hoobler comes to mind...). I also find that too many sources is also overwhelming, and people are more likely to pick an article with one big source they can kind of follow, and maybe one or two smaller sources they can use to fill in the gaps. Keilana (talk) 15:44, 27 October 2015 (UTC)

@Megalibrarygirl: Yes, the ones with three links seems to be a good starting point. Perhaps we could create a list on the editathon page as you suggest. For the non-English-speaking women, I think a photo or other images in the bios in other languages is often an attraction. Perhaps we should start by creating a separate list of notables for the editathon and incorporate later on the editathon page - just as Pharos did with the architects?--Ipigott (talk) 15:55, 27 October 2015 (UTC)

• @Keilana: is this the Women scientists logo? Should we include it in all our communications about the event?--Ipigott (talk) 15:46, 27 October 2015 (UTC)

@Ipigott: Yes it is! If y'all want to use it that'd be great. Keilana (talk) 16:00, 27 October 2015 (UTC)

Can I just say I LOVE working with this group! So dynamic and so positive. Would that all of WikiPedia would take a pause and see how much better it is to be proactive and help each other. I like the idea of by specialty *AND* by country. Really helps for resources. I know that in Mexico, I don't have availability to some market areas and others I have lots of sources for. Weirdly, I can hardly find hits at all in search engines for Chile, but I get lots for Romania. Besides which, country designations allow others to pull out just their countries for on-site editathons during ours if they are so inclined. SusunW (talk) 16:09, 27 October 2015 (UTC)

We love working with you too! <3 I'm working to find more sources and such (I think Gamaliel is busy right now but he's willing to help) and will try to find non-Anglophone scientists. Keilana (talk) 16:37, 27 October 2015 (UTC)

OK, most of the list is now by speciality and country. :) And ditto on how awesome this group is. I'm really glad to say that I'm a lucky woman to have had an awesome experience on Wikipedia. ;) Megalibrarygirl (talk) 18:51, 27 October 2015 (UTC)

And I second that, @Megalibrarygirl and SusunW! @Pharos, Keilana, and Ipigott: Can we revisit dates? I'm hearing through the grapevine that some editors would like to work on women scientists before the official start date or after the official end date (because of the Thanksgiving holiday in the US). What do you think about making this a 3 week virtual event, 8-29 Nov? --Rosiestep (talk) 03:16, 28 October 2015 (UTC)

I've copied this over to Wikipedia talk:Meetup/Women in Red/4 and suggest we continue the discussion there.--Ipigott (talk) 17:43, 27 October 2015 (UTC)

Invitation

Fight the gender gap: write articles on women

I made a template, a start;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:04, 26 October 2015 (UTC)

Beautiful! (And it works.) I'm sure there are hundreds of people you can send it to. How about working on women composers? I see there's already a long list at List of female composers by birth year with a few red links but there must be many, many more we should cover in the other language wikis. Maybe we should start Wikipedia:WikiProject Women/Women in Red/Women composers?--Ipigott (talk) 11:07, 26 October 2015 (UTC)

It's lovely, @Gerda. --Rosiestep (talk) 14:19, 26 October 2015 (UTC)

I love this! Hope it is a sign that your vacation was restful and restorative Gerda Arendt.

It is! See my talk, under baklava, - a returning user, o happy day! Will create a popcorn template also ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:55, 26 October 2015 (UTC)

As I am still on vacation, I will not send it to individuals, but every user posting on a certain well-watched page, on ANI, AE and on arbcom request should feel morally obliged to create a "qpq" woman stub ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:59, 26 October 2015 (UTC)

Women in Red

Here's a neutral box, easily modified. If you need modifications, ask Alakzi. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:20, 16 November 2015 (UTC)

Quarry

I had a phone call today with Amanda Bittaker regarding our Metrics. Amanda thinks she can help us with this. There are multiple steps. The first thing she needs from us is a list of categories within our scope. She suggested that we start with User:AlexNewArtBot/WomensHistory (I've pasted here). Category:Women writers is missing. Also, books written by women. What else? --Rosiestep (talk) 02:52, 27 October 2015 (UTC)

I'm removing the pasted list from last night which was a mess; it's link is in the post right above this one. --Rosiestep (talk) 02:29, 28 October 2015 (UTC)

Rosiestep I don't quite get if these are parent categories or the actual ones it is searching. I don't see activists, I see activism but is a computer going to pick up on that? or suffragists only "suffe?rage" (what IS that). (Could explain why I keep saying none of my women appear on the list????) Also don't see social work only social reform. I did a German woman today and it would only take women academics not educators. I can also say that while we got songs in the new files list, we go no notifications on musicians though I know some were created. I do not see artists. Is this what you want? SusunW (talk) 03:23, 27 October 2015 (UTC)

SusunW yes, that's what Amanda needs. Regarding suffrage, I started those 8 suffrage congress articles earlier this month and I wonder now if I hadn't added them to the Metrics list by hand, would they have showed up? (e.g. First Conference of the International Woman Suffrage Alliance)? --Rosiestep (talk) 14:33, 27 October 2015 (UTC)

Rosiestep They were on the list, but not sure which marker made them appear. Also note there is nothing to do with film unless I am missing it. No film, no actress. SusunW (talk) 15:02, 27 October 2015 (UTC)

Rosiestep on musicians, no singers, songwriters, sopranos, altos. No instrument players of any kind, i.e. guitarists, drummers, etc. etc. No scientists, but science. Does it pull from that? What about chemists, biologists, mathematicians, economists ... This could go on forever. ;) SusunW (talk) 15:49, 27 October 2015 (UTC)

Hi all, here's a list of what the bot captures in more natural language:

Points	Phrase
2	Is a history stub or contains phrase "ground-breaking" or "revolutionary"
11	Contains language on "first woman" or "women's history"
2	Contains language on a peace organizer
2	Contains language on peace corps or human rights
10	Contains language on a woman mathmatician/scientist/enginner
10	Contains language on a woman education/administrator/library scientist
10	Contains language on a woman architect/builder
10	Contains language on a woman technology/industrial revolution or woman inventor
10	Contains language on a woman physician or nurse
10	Contains language on a woman and birth control or abortion
10	Contains language on a woman religious figure
10	Contains language on a woman sports person
10	Contains language on a woman artist
10	Contains language on a woman journalist
10	Contains language on a woman scientist/pilot/astronaunt
10	Contains language on a woman military person
10	Contains language on a woman government official
10	Contains language on a woman lawyer/judge/police
10	Contains language on a woman farmer/rancher
10	Contains language on a woman conservationist
10	Contains language on a woman activist
10	Contains language on a woman union organizer
10	Contains language on a woman slave/abolitionist
10	Contains language on a woman businessperson/banker/executive
10	Contains language on a woman philanthropist
4	Contains the phrase "for women"
4	Contains the word "women's" or "women" or "female"
10	Contains the word "all" before the word "women" or "female" or "woman"
-3	Contains the word "man" or "men" or "male"
10	Contains language on a Victorian/medieval/reaissance/ancient woman
6	Contains language on proto/first/second/third wave feminism or women's lib
3	Contains language stating the century
2	Contains the word "she"
-1	Contains the word "he"

The first column is the number of points assigned if that page (article, category, or template) contains the language in the second column. Eg, if an article contains language on a woman artist, language on woman journalist, but mentions the word "he" twice, it would have 18 points. (10 + 10 - 1 - 1).

The rules can be re-written so less slips through the concepts already covered, but hopefully this list will help highlight what concepts are missing as well. For example, scientists and mathematicians are already covered, but sub-categories of scientists such as chemists or biologists are not and could be added. I hope this helps, please do let me know if you have any questions on technical details as you are compiling this list. Abittaker (WMF) (talk) 20:09, 27 October 2015 (UTC)

A list of missing occupations. Please add to it. --Rosiestep (talk) 02:29, 28 October 2015 (UTC)

4

Without trying to list them all, what if we ask Amanda to include the categories and all of the subcategories in {{cl|Women by occupation}} and {{cl|Category:Literature by women}}? --Rosiestep (talk) 04:42, 29 October 2015 (UTC)

Good morning, @Abittaker (WMF). These two categories and all their subcategories encompass our scope. Can you create something which will display in list form any new articles created within these parameters? --Rosiestep (talk) 14:44, 6 November 2015 (UTC)

• Category:Women by occupation
• Category:Women's culture

Hello @Rosiestep, sure, I can put together a query for that. Just to be sure, do you want to also include the categories Category:Women's rights or Category:Women? I remember we discussed the possibility of including Women's rights, which includes suffrage topics, and these are not included in Women by occupation or Women's culture.

Also, I've asked about the best ways to capture the proportion of biographies that is women's biographies. There is no exact science to be sure of the most accurate way, but the feeling seems to be that a Wikidata query would be best. Another option would be looking at a biographies category and women's biographies category using catscan. Do you have someone who knows how to do one or both of these? I can send along some instructions as well. Best, Abittaker (WMF) (talk) 19:24, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

Hello @Abittaker (WMF), I think it simplifies the process if the query is for Category:Women and all its subcats. When the list is posted, we will weed out the articles which are outside our scope. We'll leave it to you to decide which query option is best (Wikidata vs. catscan). Thank you, --Rosiestep (talk) 02:03, 10 November 2015 (UTC)

While I realise that it is volunteering others for work, it might be useful to do the analysis using both methods (wikidata & catscan) to see the difference between them. I also think that it would be prudent to use the same methods to determine the proportion of biographies that are men, and the proportion that are as yet undefined or unknown; though this may be difficult with categories. I mention this having reviewed some of the list of AfDs related to Tara Teng, kindly provided by Jbhunley; while the article subjects were clearly women, the majority did not seem to be tagged with a Women's category, and may not have had relevant wikidata either. - Ryk72 ^'c.s.n.s.' 16:34, 11 November 2015 (UTC)

Category:Literature by women

@Missvain: We have {{cl|Category:Literature by women}} but it does not appear that we have {{cl|Category:Art by women}}. Thoughts? --Rosiestep (talk) 04:42, 29 October 2015 (UTC)

Not really. If someone wants to create it and deal with distributing it, go for it. :) Missvain (talk) 04:46, 29 October 2015 (UTC)

WikiProject X up for renewal

First of all, I would like to express my appreciation for Women in Red for testing the new WikiProject interface and tools. Thank you.

WikiProject X is up for renewal at the Wikimedia Foundation. We would like to continue working to make our existing tools better: to make them easier to use, and to integrate them with other Wikimedia projects, including Wikimedia Commons and Wikidata. Please review our renewal proposal and leave feedback. Note in this proposal we refer specifically to Women in Red by name—I've been very impressed by the enthusiasm of Women in Red, so I would like to prioritize helping this project.

As always, if you have any questions or feedback, please let me know on this talk page or the WikiProject X talk page.

Thank you again, Harej (talk) 19:35, 27 October 2015 (UTC)

@Harej: I'm glad to see you have finally made contact with us again and are hoping to improve the WikiProject X interfaces. The project is indeed proving to be a huge success thanks to the involvement of all those contributing to new articles. The major problem with Women in Red is that we are unable to correct errors on the project page or provide a table of contents which covers it efficiently and not just one item at a time. Work on Metrics has become particularly critical as despite several attempts to alert you to the problem, the Metrics icon simply does not take you to the Metrics section. We have introduced a subsection on DYK successes but the only way we can draw attention to it is to mention it in the announcements. As the Grants section has never been used, it could perhaps be usefully replaced by DYKs (in which there is considerable interest). But as I have mentioned to you on several occasions, the most important correction we need is for you to have Metrics icon respond again. Once this works, we can perhaps address other improvements.--Ipigott (talk) 16:33, 28 October 2015 (UTC)

I'm sorry the problem slipped for so long! It should work again. I can also break out DYKs into a separate section if you all would like: the "pre-fab" module is called "Showcase" but we can also go with another name. Harej (talk) 19:15, 28 October 2015 (UTC)

@Harej: Thanks for the fix. I'm glad to see it's finally working again. I'm sure "Showcase" will be fine for DYKs too in the new version. How about the problem of a table of contents? Would it not be possible to provide for all the subsections in addition to the icons? The only way I can see of doing this at the moment is to add items under announcements. I have also noticed that the "Tasks" section has never really followed up on your plans to retrieve red links via WikiData. Should the "From WikiData" section not simply be eliminated so that we can continue adding our own tasks in the traditional way? I also think it might be useful for you to take a closer look at the main page on Women in Red and see how it could be improved in the light of the development of each of the sections. I think a more straightforward way for new members to register would also help. There have been lots of additional participants who have added their names to the lists on our editathons (see Wikipedia:Meetup/Women_in_Red/2#Participants and Wikipedia:Meetup/Women in Red/3#Participants) but many have not become members of WiR. Some (as I was) may be put off by the rather complicated registration procedure and the suggestion a photograph should be provided. This might deserve closer attention. I think it would also be useful for you to receive feedback from our other regular contributors including @Rosiestep, SusunW, Megalibrarygirl, 97198, Alafarge, Yoninah, and Nvvchar:--Ipigott (talk) 08:47, 29 October 2015 (UTC)

Ipigott, I have a theory about editathon participants. I think they don't sign up for a larger wiki project for 2 reasons, 1) they consider themselves casual editors... perhaps with the perception that they aren't really part of the online community and/or 2) it never occurs to them to sign up. I like the sign up process for WP Women, Harej, having a little pic is fun and cute. :) Plus you can skip the pic if you want to. I did at first and later added a pic that looks like my dog. Megalibrarygirl (talk) 12:22, 29 October 2015 (UTC)

@Ipigott and Harej: I have the same issue I have expressed all along. It is difficult to navigate. WIR seems to open new pages for sections, such as when you add an item to metrics and sometimes you return to WP Women and others on WP WIR. I cannot figure out why that is. The missing metrics piece IMO is the biggest challenge of the project. I simply do not understand why that is proving so difficult and why it cannot be done. SusunW (talk) 13:57, 29 October 2015 (UTC)

@Harej: Thanks for asking for feedback. I agree with the other editors who say that navigation is difficult, and doubly so after WiR merged with WikiProject Women. To help with events navigation, I created {{Wikipedia:Meetup/Women in Red/Navigation}} this morning. IMHO, I really like the simplicity, look, feel, navigation of this one, Wikipedia:Art+Feminism. Are you thinking of offering various style options in the future? --Rosiestep (talk) 17:39, 1 November 2015 (UTC)

I really like your navigation box, @Rosiestep:. It's a great first step to making the WiR page easier to get around. Regarding the sign-ups for editathons, I personally don't understand the need to "RSVP", unless you're trying to build a base of users to notify of future editathons. Without signing up, I started writing Women in Leadership articles and found I liked it, so I amassed quite a few. I skipped the Women in Architecture editathon, but will try my hand at Women in Science and Women in Religion. Is it really necessary to sign up for these? Yoninah (talk) 20:58, 1 November 2015 (UTC)

@Yoninah: Nope, RSVP is not required. And yes, participant names are helpful for future event promotion. The main thing is writing articles. :) --Rosiestep (talk) 21:18, 1 November 2015 (UTC)

I have been hesitant about signing up for WikiProjects — any projects, not just this one — mainly because of uncertainty as to what is expected when one crosses over from being vanilla editor to project member. (Honestly, I signed up for my first WikiProject or two in the mistaken belief that only project members were entitled to put WikiProject tags on Talk pages, and I wanted to be able to do that.) Also, I don't often have time to read all the material that accumulates on WikiProject pages, useful though it can be, and even though this community in particular is unquestionably the most gracious I've found on Wikipedia so that dropping in is a pleasure. A case in point: an entry further up this page about Wikidata, which is completely opaque to me and which I'd clearly have to spend some time to figure out. So for me the navigation issues are far less important than it sounds like they are to all of you with more experience in WikiProjectLand.Alafarge (talk) 15:17, 2 November 2015 (UTC)

Thank you all, very much, for your comments. I have prepared a list based on what has been said here. I want to make sure I have captured everything that's been said, so please let me know if I need to add anything to this list or otherwise change it:

• Create a separate section to list DYKs
• Find a way to list sub-sections in the table of contents
• Auto-updating lists of redlinks from Wikidata. (Specifically, the ability to sort by category; right now, the tool gives just one list.)
• More straightforward way to sign up, including de-emphasis on the picture aspect. (I wish to emphasize that having a picture is optional, though I understand how this may not always be clear.)
• Interview most active users
• Automate the metrics report for new articles
• Fix navigation bugs
• Offer various styling options
• Clarify what exactly being a member entails.

Harej (talk) 19:35, 4 November 2015 (UTC)

Someone also proposed a concierge bell for reporting problems and asking questions. An excellent idea as well. Harej (talk) 19:38, 4 November 2015 (UTC)

Missing women scientists

I've put some up on the board at Wikipedia:WikiProject Intertranswiki, important ones which have been identified as missing. Rosie might want to copy them to the Women page for targets.♦ Dr. Blofeld 13:16, 1 November 2015 (UTC)

Done! --Rosiestep (talk) 20:03, 1 November 2015 (UTC)

Counting growth in article types: Did we just have a 37% spike in Women architects?

Wikipedia:Meetup/Women in Red/3 seems like it may have had a very measurable effect on the total number of biographical articles - but this needs a stronger technical confirmation. For details, please see the Village Pump question. Thanks for everyone who contributed to this campaign!--Pharos (talk) 19:52, 1 November 2015 (UTC)

In fact, we had a 40% spike!--Pharos (talk) 15:10, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

Like I tried to look at the link in Village pump but I get nothing when I click on it. But 40% spike is huge! Hoping for a big spike in women scientists too. SusunW (talk) 17:56, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

I've put the list on-wiki here: User:Pharos/WABY. I wonder whether this might make a good case study that could be developed as a Signpost feature?--Pharos (talk) 17:59, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

@Pharos: I think it has potential to tell a great story as we have access to accurate before and after numbers with this one. Let's do it. --Rosiestep (talk) 21:33, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

Wei Tingting

I created an article about this Chinese feminist and LGBT/women's rights activist as part of the ongoing Wikipedia Asian Month campaign. Just sharing in case WiR tracks newly created articles. I saw the red link at Wikipedia:WikiProject Women/Women in Red/API Women and Wikipedia:WikiProject Women/Women in Red/Women activists. All are welcome to help expand the article! ---Another Believer _(Talk) 05:59, 2 November 2015 (UTC)

Thank you Another Believer I have moved it to our metrics section Wikipedia:WikiProject Women/Women in Red/Metrics#November 2015 SusunW (talk) 15:51, 2 November 2015 (UTC)

Afd

• Dorothy Garrett Smith haven't looked closely myself. All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 21:41, 2 November 2015 (UTC).
  

I did what I could. Cannot find further sources from here in Mexico, but there are clues that other sourcing may exist and she does meet GNG, IMO.SusunW (talk) 14:20, 3 November 2015 (UTC)

BLP

Regarding our events and the lists associated with them, such as this one, it has been suggested elsewhere that we distinguish the redlink entries as a BLP vs. a biography of someone who has passed. So, if you know the year of death and want to take the time to add it to the redlink, that's awesome (but not required); or if you know the person is alive, maybe add BLP after their name. This would probably benefit our newer editors the most. --Rosiestep (talk) 02:33, 3 November 2015 (UTC)

Userbox

I created this user box if anyone wants to use it or improve it - it's my first attempt to create a user box.

This user is a member of WikiProject Women in Red.

Minor4th 22:07, 3 November 2015 (UTC)

I really like this. Thanks! Yoninah (talk) 23:38, 3 November 2015 (UTC)

Very cool! Thanks!SusunW (talk) 04:45, 4 November 2015 (UTC)

Very nice! --Rosiestep (talk) 23:29, 4 November 2015 (UTC)

New showcase section

I have moved the DYK entries into a section called Showcase. (Incidentally, there is a bot that automates this, but I think it requires categorizing all the articles in scope for this WikiProject into a special category, which I am not sure is feasible given the broad scope.) Please let me know promptly if anything broke in the process. Harej (talk) 20:13, 4 November 2015 (UTC)

@Harej: I like it. Thanks. --Rosiestep (talk) 23:34, 4 November 2015 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Meetup/Aphra Behn Society Editathon

I missed seeing this, Wikipedia:Meetup/Aphra Behn Society Editathon, on WiR's mainpage in the Events section. We could have done a 1 week virtual edit-a-thon; sorry I wasn't on top of it. If anyone would like to participate, please join in virtually. --Rosiestep (talk) 23:32, 4 November 2015 (UTC)

Women Olympians

Fellow Editors, While looking at another article, I noticed that per WP:NSPORTS@WP:OLYMPICS all persons competing at an Olympic Games are presumed notable. I thought this might offer some scope for articles on Women Olympians. - Ryk72 ^'c.s.n.s.' 14:21, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

That's good to know! Thank you. :) Megalibrarygirl (talk) 20:58, 6 November 2015 (UTC)

I just acquired a new book

Elliott, Clark A; Kohlstedt, Sally Gregory (1979). Biographical Dictionary of American Science: The Seventeenth Through the Nineteenth Centuries. Westport and London: Greenwood Press. ISBN 978-0-313-20419-7.

All the women's biographies are indexed under the entry "Women in science", saving me much time!

SO far I have looked at 6 women's biographies and only 1 needed creating. Not sure whether to be disappointed!

Lucretia Crocker is a one-line stub, until I get some caffeine or some sleep.

All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 17:56, 6 November 2015 (UTC).

The five missing (women's) articles have been created. Three are still stubs, but I'll expand them over the next few days.

All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 16:00, 7 November 2015 (UTC).

AfD

• Maureen Milgram Forrest (AfD) - as part of a multiple AfD, perhaps as a reaction to the so-far failed Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Nicholas Bowen. All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 16:33, 7 November 2015 (UTC).
  

Women in enterprise promotion - UK

The The Queen's Award for Enterprise Promotion is awarded to about 8 people every year, along with one Lifetime Achievement Award. The following 10 (women) awardees and 2 lifetime awardees have no article.

The Queen's Award for Enterprise Promotion 2014

• Mrs Christine Atkinson, Deputy Director of Entrepreneurship, University of South Wales, Pontypridd, Wales
• Ann Stonehouse, Chair, Assist Women's Network, Middlesbrough, North Yorkshire
• Jayne Taggert, Chief Executive, Causeway Enterprise Agency, Coleraine, County Londonderry, Northern Ireland

The Queen's Award for Enterprise Promotion 2013

Lifetime Achievement

• Claire Dove MBE, Chief Executive, Blackburne House Group, Liverpool, Merseyside

Achievement in Enterprise Promotion

• Lady Cunningham, Enterprise Development Coach, Ways into Successful Enterprise, Allerdale Borough Council, Workington, Cumbria
• Elizabeth Towns-Andrews, Director of Research and Enterprise, University of Huddersfield, Huddersfield, West Yorkshire

Lifetime Achievement

• Carmel Gahan Director of Ross Carberry Ltd, Swansea, Wales

Achievement in Enterprise Promotion

• Claire Ferris, Manager, Work West Enterprise Agency, Belfast, N. Ireland
• Elizabeth Tappenden, Director, In To Biz Limited, The Isle of Wight

The Queen's Award for Enterprise Promotion 2011

• Alison Brown, head of technology, director of specialism, Catcote School Business and Enterprise College, Hartlepool, County Durham
• Victoria Lennox, founder and chair of trustees, National Consortium of University Entrepreneurs, London
• Professor Susan Marlow, professor of entrepreneurship, De Montfort University, Leicester author of Managing Labour in Small Firms. Routledge Studies in Small Business. Susan Marlow, Dean Patton, Monder Ram (editors). Routledge. 2004. ISBN 9781134381463.{{cite book}}: CS1 maint: others (link)

All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 17:09, 7 November 2015 (UTC).

Music editathon in January or February?

As a result of OnBeyondZebrax's article on Women in music, we are discussing the possibility of having an editathon in January or February on women in music (possibly concentrating on composers and instrumentalists) (see User talk:OnBeyondZebrax). My preferred dates would be 10 to 31 January as we will need February to prepare for the March Women's History Month. We hope to have feedback from Pharos, Tim riley, Victuallers and anyone else with ideas.--Ipigott (talk) 16:25, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

Well, Ipigott we were talking on the ideas page about education for January and Black History for February. I'm not sure we could do two editathons in one month, but on the other hand it is possible? SusunW (talk) 16:32, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

Music would be a great topic but the timing might need to change a little. Keilana (talk) 18:57, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

• Let me first copy this over from OnBeyondZebraz's talk Page

Women in music is an important article, so first, thank you for that! I support @Ipigott's idea of a Women in Music edit-a-thon in January or February, perhaps for 10-14 days. All the "women" categories are, to my knowledge, non-diffusing, so any biography in a "women" category must also be added to a non-gendered category within the same field. --Rosiestep (talk) 15:00, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

@Rosiestep: Thanks for your support for an editathon on women in music. How about 10 to 31 January? Maybe Pharos can tie us up with something otherwise it would be interesting to see how we make out alone. Maybe we should concentrate on composers and instrumentalists to avoid initial overspill on pop. As for the categories, I think in music especially, categories such as Category:Female singers and most of the subcategories are main categories in their own right as female voices need to be distinguished from the males voices. Category:Female dancers likewise.--Ipigott (talk) 15:35, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

We've had a good relationship in NYC and a number of past events with the New York Public Library for the Performing Arts, and User:Kosboot is actually a librarian there. The most recent event was this past May, when User:Lange.lea organized us for Wikipedia:Meetup/NYC/WomenOfJazz. That said, scheduling something for January would depend on circumstances and the availability of different people.--Pharos (talk) 15:45, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

Thanks Pharos for your amazingly quick response. We seem to be establishing an excellent relationship. For the time being, I'll put the proposal for January on the WiR talk page. If you can come up with anything, let me know. My own inclination is that we should have an open event on composers and instrumentalists initially and perhaps organize something specific on jazz and/or other genres later. It would also be good if we could become involved in events extending outside of NYC too. Perhaps Tim riley and Victuallers could let us know if there is any interest in the UK or Europe in January of February?--Ipigott (talk) 16:07, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

I'm off to a wikimeet in Birmingham this weekend. I'll ask ... Victuallers (talk) 16:13, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

Thanks Roger. Further discussion on the event on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Women/Women in Red#Music editathon in January or February?.--Ipigott (talk) 16:30, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

Bags of useful international pop, jazz and folk material, I'm sure, and for classical music though there will necessarily be slim pickings on female composers there are masses of top notch women performers whose articles could be improved if a female-oriented editathon is thought desirable. My great guru on editathons in London has been User:WereSpielChequers, but that was a little while ago, and things may have changed. – Tim riley talk 18:08, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

Thanks, Tim. We're probably corresponding on the wrong page but I agree with you that we need to promote performers and instumentalists. Interesting work on composers may emerge from some of the other languages. For a start, just look at Argentina. Maybe not all completely classical but... --Ipigott (talk) 19:05, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

• And now let me respond specifically to the earlier comment from SusunW: You may be familiar with the Spanish proverb: "No hay mal que por bien no venga".

To Keilana and you, Susun, I think it is very important to maintain Black History for February but I must say very many of the biographies from the recent editathons have had a direct relationship with education. The other problem I have with "Education" at the moment is that 90% of the red links come from the USA. Music on the other hand is universal. I think we have time in January to address it. May I ask for feedback here from Rosiestep, Keilana, Victuallers, Dr. Blofeld, Megalibrarygirl, Missvain, Pigsonthewing, SusunW, Alafarge, Big Iron, Nvvchar, Gobonobo, 97198 and any others who would like to respond.--Ipigott (talk) 20:07, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

Ipigott it matters not to me. Education fits in with a bunch of other categories and it may well be that that list becomes a feeder for Black History month, Activists, science, etc., as you pointed out, there is a lot of overlap. I was merely pointing out that it should get on the idea board asap so that there are not conflicts. As I said about religion, music isn't my topic. I love music, have a pretty good set of pipes, but no real knowledge. Bios I can usually pull off. SusunW (talk) 20:31, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

Black History month is a different month here in the UK. Shouldn't be a problem finding trainers for an event in London in February, meta:/Meetup/London/100 is on December 13th, if someone can get me dates for an editathon by then I'm sure we will be able to get some experienced trainers from the crowd there. ϢereSpielChequers 20:48, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

Yes, aware that in the UK it is different, not sure why that is but I checked and the UK is the only place that is different that I can tell. Caribbean, US, and Canada is February. UK is in October. Anyway, dates that were being bandied about on the calendar for an event were 14 January to 24 January SusunW (talk) 21:07, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

Whichever we work on, any month, I'm happy to try to get lists together. I enjoy making and sourcing the lists. So far, most of the educators, like Ipigott mentioned are from the US... I found a ton from the state Hall of Fame sites, so that tipped it a lot. I can try to expand to other countries, though I tend to be hampered by language. I'm only fluent in English and I understand enough Spanish to get by and can sort of use my Spanish to get the gist of other Romance languages. I'm lucky to have a few friends who are fluent in other languages, though, so I'll hit them up and see if they have anything to offer. However, whatever we decide to write about is cool with me and I'm happy to help any way I can. :) Megalibrarygirl (talk) 15:00, 11 November 2015 (UTC)

• I thought of something, we could include this list, which is more internationally inclusive: Women's organizations with education since that's the mission of many of these groups... advocacy with raising awareness, which I think touches on educating the public... Megalibrarygirl (talk) 15:18, 11 November 2015 (UTC)

That's a great offer, Megalibrarygirl. Up to now, we have very little on music so it would be great if you could make a start. I would suggest concentrating on composers and instrumentalists for a start (maybe two separate lists). Later on I'll be able to help out with international coverage as I am fluent in most of the European languages but I'm pretty busy with other things at the moment.--Ipigott (talk) 15:23, 11 November 2015 (UTC)

• List for music is begun: Women in music Megalibrarygirl (talk) 15:40, 11 November 2015 (UTC)

For whatever reason, I have not received the pings for this section, so sorry for the delay in joining the convo. I think a music editathon is a great idea -- much needed. Note, the post I made regarding January-February was in a vacuum... not in consideration with the other events we were lining up for 2016Q1. A sponsored event by some institution would help drive dates. Any suggestions for sponsors? If not, let's ping someone at GLAM or WikiEdu for ideas. As usual, the redlist(s) will be very important; let's also consider image redlinks, such as we have in the scientist editathon. --Rosiestep (talk) 15:45, 11 November 2015 (UTC)

• Among other people, let's ping User:Gerda Arendt for input on a music project. Montanabw^(talk) 02:16, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

• The Women in music is coming along nicely. I found some international redlinks to work on. Please feel free to add! :) Megalibrarygirl (talk) 14:42, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

Megalibrarygirl you rock, Sue! Truly. You have done such a great job with these lists. On Wikipedia:WikiProject Intertranswiki are recurring lists for Bach cantatas, that also links here Wikipedia:WikiProject Classical music/Missing articles:Bach Cantatas site. I am sure Gerda or Dr. B can tell us where there might be other WikiProject links and I found this link, which I haven't had time to comb through but will work on it [1] SusunW (talk) 14:58, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

DYK

If anyone wants to help with the Women in Science editathon and doesn't really want to write articles, or just has time to do QPQ reviews, I could use help with DYK nominations. I've nominated a bunch and so has Yoninah but I think these would be good candidates:

• Catherine Feuillet moved to mainspace on 11-6 must be nom by 11-13  Done
• Gloria Lim moved to mainspace on 11-8 must be nom by 11-15 Thank you Yoninah! SusunW (talk) 21:04, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
• Vera Faddeeva moved to mainspace on 11-8 must be nom by 11-15  Done
• Catherine A. Lozupone moved to mainspace on 11-9 must be nom by 11-15  Done
• Katherine Belov moved to mainspace 11-11 must be nom by 11-18  Done
• Idelisa Bonnelly moved to mainspace 11-12 must be nom by 11-19  Done
• Una Ryan and Una M. Ryan moved to mainspace 11-13 Done

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Feel free to add a line or two and make yourself a co-author ;) SusunW (talk) 19:30, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

AfD: scientist Elizabeth A. Wood

Just got an AfD notice on a new page I put up for scientist Elizabeth A. Wood. Not sure why since she seemed to me to pass notability just fine. Not least, there is a science writing award given out in her honor. Would appreciate folks weighing in on what is needed to deal with the AfD notice.Alafarge (talk) 15:25, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

Update — just noticed on the AfD nominator's Talk page that he has been recently called out by other Wikipedia editors for being too quick with the AfD tag.Alafarge (talk) 15:31, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

More AfDs

These articles created by User:Neelix are at AfD as part of ... let us just say, the mass deletion or attempted deletion of things he has created. The majority of the articles (and the only ones I have listed here) are about women.

1. Glendene Grant
2. Iris Thomsen
3. Mélanie Paquin
4. Bukola Oriola
5. Vednita Carter
6. Centre to End All Sexual Exploitation
7. Deborah's Gate
8. EVE (organization)
9. Tania Fiolleau
10. Jassy Bindra
11. Shae Invidiata
12. Lepa Jankovic
13. Aaron Krogman
14. Denise Wong
15. Sienna Howell-Holden
16. Glenda Warkentin
17. Evelyn Chew
18. Men Against Sexual Trafficking
19. Sex Trade 101
20. Katarina MacLeod
21. Bridget Perrier
22. Streetlight Support Services
23. NASHI
24. London Anti-Human Trafficking Committee
25. Women of Distinction Awards
26. The Source Dance Company
27. Timea Nagy (activist)
28. White Dog Cafe (founded by a woman).
29. Buying Sex is Not a Sport

All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 23:17, 13 November 2015 (UTC).

Thank you for the heads up. I'm a rabid inclusionist, and yet I think...three of these? passed even the most basic stretch of notability standards. So much creepy dreck. The Drover's Wife (talk) 02:37, 14 November 2015 (UTC)

Creepy but is worth determining if any happened to be notable, I voted keep on a couple... Montanabw^(talk) 05:12, 15 November 2015 (UTC)

I just voted "Keep or merge to Human trafficking in Canada." on one - where we three are the only voters. I looked at some of these articles (i.e. about 3 of the most notable ones not on this list) a year or two ago. It seems that the process was to give each entity an article, and to gather as much information as possible. If this was another wiki that might be fine, but we have "Notability" criteria to deal with. Actually it is sorta fine here, because we have AGF and merge. All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 14:42, 15 November 2015 (UTC).

I find the reminder that we have notability criteria peculiar from someone who just voted keep without explanation (in each case the only one to do so) a bunch of times, in response to this obsessive POV mess on fringe organisations and people. Nearly all of these people are of the same level of notability, but it's sad that while all the actors are gone in a jiffy, a number the other equally randomly un-notable people are on the fringe because people think it sounds like a feel-good cause. The Drover's Wife (talk) 17:10, 15 November 2015 (UTC)

I voted "keep" without explanation a bunch of times? Must have been my cat walking on my keyboard. All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 21:39, 16 November 2015 (UTC).

Help needed to bring Sherry Thomas to GA status

Hi everyone! A few days ago, I began a Good Article review of Sherry Thomas, a critically acclaimed Chinese-American romance writer. Unfortunately, the GA nominator (Plange) has not been active on Wikipedia for the last few months, and she has not responded to the requests for revisions at the GA review. Is there somebody at this Wikiproject who is willing to work on the article to bring it to GA status? I certainly wouldn't want to lose the opportunity to bring this article to GA status. I am also posting this message at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Women writers. Thanks in advance for your help! Best, -- Notecardforfree (talk) 16:07, 14 November 2015 (UTC)

Probably all you can do is ping the GA board for someone to close the review and then restart it.Maybe someone can take it over, but I'm not sure the rules on that. Sucks, but... Montanabw^(talk) 00:59, 17 November 2015 (UTC)

AFD

Judy Ho Another new article on scientists list proposed for deletion *sigh* SusunW (talk) 16:55, 16 November 2015 (UTC)

I voted. Could use some more eyes and attention. Minor4th 15:53, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

Rhonda Patrick Another new scientist proposed for deletion and worse, marked as a potential hoax. Seriously SMDH. SusunW (talk) 15:31, 19 November 2015 (UTC)

Sabrina Gschwandtner new artist article. Nominated within hours of its creation by a new editor. SusunW (talk) 01:45, 20 November 2015 (UTC)

megalibrarygirl Thanks! I hate that they probably ran off this editor, but hopefully we will have saved the file. Extremely interesting work. SusunW (talk) 18:26, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

SusunW, I agree. The nominator, Ireneshih, is nominating articles just days after creation without seeming to do WP:BEFORE. It's rather concerning that there is a lack of due-diligence. Another article I'm trying to rescue is Olivia Gude. At first glance, she seems to pass GNG. I think someone's doing an edit a thon somewhere because I'm seeing a lot of art related articles popping up. I'm concerned about this trend of no WP:BEFORE. Megalibrarygirl (talk) 18:32, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

Megalibrarygirl serious lack of initiative on the part of the nominator. Both state and national awards. *sigh*. Hopefully we have done enough to convince others ;) SusunW (talk) 19:59, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

SusunW, thanks for helping me add to Olivia Gude. It was so clear that she passed, at the least, GNG. Megalibrarygirl (talk) 20:05, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

Megalibrarygirl way beyond GNG. With what we found on her awards, she clearly passes artist and I think SNOWY might be appropriate ;) SusunW (talk) 20:08, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

Edit-a-thon Concierge Service

The concierge is in. How can we assist you?

This section to the concierge bell in the infobox of our current event: Wikipedia:Meetup/Women in Red/4. I figure there will be editors who will be looking for assistance and won't know where to turn. I think it would be a good idea to include this concierge bell feature in every event's infobox. Sure, this will require us to answer questions now and again, but I think we're up for it. If you're familiar with the WP:Teahouse, this "Concierge Service" is meant to be like it. If you don't like the idea, we can always scrap it! --Rosiestep (talk) 03:11, 17 November 2015 (UTC)

I like it Rosiestep. Finally got caught up on my DYKs but I was panicked for a few days thinking I wasn't going to get them done. I also resorted to writing notes on the redlist, but thankfully Megalibrarygirl saw my scribbings and helped me so scrape together enough for a stub. Sad when one of the top researchers on cancer in the US can only get a stub because no one is writing about her, but everyone is quoting her research. Says something important about our sourcing criteria, IMO. SusunW (talk) 03:32, 17 November 2015 (UTC)

I like the idea, too, Rosiestep. Also, SusunW, I agree that there is a sourcing/notability issue in Wiki, but it always seems like when it's brought up anywhere besides some WikiProjects, like ours, no one wants to talk about it. :( Megalibrarygirl (talk) 15:11, 17 November 2015 (UTC)

@Megalibrarygirl and SusunW: I have had the same experience regarding sourcing/notability. --Rosiestep (talk) 15:17, 17 November 2015 (UTC)

@Rosiestep: While I think we should be doing everything possible to encourage new or inexperienced users, I'm not convinced at this stage that a concierge bell is the best approach. I think the top priority is to revamp the Women in Red site to overcome our navigational problems and avoid being constantly taken back to WP Women rather than Women in Red when trying to return from one of the project pages. Everyday, I have to open and reopen about four or five windows to be able to track what's going on and I have more experience of Wikipedia than most. Just imagine what it must be like for those who have just joined us. As for helping newbies, etc., I have been trying to make personal contact with them on their talk pages but have only had responses from about one in ten (or even less). Nearly all those who come in through in-person editathons seem to disappear from Wikipedia editing within a day or two, only reappearing at the next editathon a year or more later. I have tried to encourage Pharos to collaborate in helping to keep in touch with them (e.g. by email) but there has been no follow-up. As for establishing notability, it is a constant problem, even when pertinent references are given. Would it be possible to list AfDs and especially Speedy Deletion candidates on the main project page, perhaps on the basis of WPBIO? We might be able to catch them before they disappear.--Ipigott (talk) 16:20, 17 November 2015 (UTC)

@Ipigott and Rosiestep: I am with you on the navigation issue, which I have maintained from the get-go is a problem. I also have the same issue as Rosie in that I don't seem to get the messages from the WIR various pages and have to scroll through them periodically to see if there are any notices. Don't know if that is why I didn't get any help from anyone except Yoninah, bless her, on my DYKs or not. But, I think the button is good even for experienced people, as I said above, because with the navigational issues, one does not know where to stick up their hand. SusunW (talk) 19:55, 17 November 2015 (UTC)

@Ipigott: I think I'll leave the concierge bell in the edit-a-thon infoboxes as it gives me peace of mind to know that if an editor lands on our meetup/event/editathon page, and if they have a question, and if they click the link provided for the concierge desk, they will land right here on the WiR talkpage, which does have a lot of eyes on it; e.g. it's a reasonably good place for them to leave a message. Let's at least give it a try, ok? --Rosiestep (talk) 20:50, 17 November 2015 (UTC)

@Rosiestep: Yes, by all means leave it on the editathon pages and anywhere else where new users may need help. It will be interesting to see how many editors make use of it. We certainly should do everything we can to help them along.--Ipigott (talk) 08:28, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

@Ipigott, SusunW, Megalibrarygirl, Dr. Blofeld, and Keilana: Thoughts on the concierge bell/service wording here vs. here? Reword it? Where else should we put the bell? Would a different image convey the intent better? --Rosiestep (talk) 15:22, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

Rosiestep My 2 cents, not everyone may know what a concierge is so go with the one that says "concierge service" can be of assistance!. SusunW (talk) 15:27, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

I like the wording on the meetup for religion, Rosiestep. Also, we may want to invite other wikiProjects like WikiProject Catholicism, Islam, Atheism, Judaism, Hinduism, etc... for the religion meetup. :) 15:29, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

@Megalibrarygirl: Yes, we should certainly try to involve all these other projects. I have been looking at recent activity on their talk pages. The most active are Catholicism (50 page watchers), Judaism (46), Islam (28), Budism (17), Hinduism (13), Seventh-day Adventist Church (7) - so they should all receive invitations. And while I'm here, thanks for all the additions to the Women in Science list of red links. We also need to make a list of all the relevant categories for new articles. There are quite a few of these but perhaps the most useful are Category:Female religious leaders, Category:Female religious workers, Category:Female clergy, Category:Female Christian missionaries, Category:Ancient priestesses, Category:Buddhist nuns, Category:Christian nuns (and all the subcategories including Category:Roman Catholic religious sisters and nuns by nationality), Category:Female saints.--Ipigott (talk) 16:30, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

Events at Women in Red navbox

@Rosiestep: I cannot find the editing page for the box titled "Events at Women in Red". The edit button (E) simply goes to "#REDIRECTTemplate:Navbox". --Ipigott (talk) 14:50, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

@Ipigott: the navbox is here: Wikipedia:Meetup/Women in Red/Navigation. However, I think it needs to be renamed so that you can edit it by clicking the (E) button. @Dr. Blofeld: can you sort out the naming issue? --Rosiestep (talk) 15:16, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

 Fixed --Edgars2007 (talk/contribs) 18:54, 20 November 2015 (UTC)

@Edgars2007: thanks! Can you also fix {{Wikipedia:WikiProject Women/Nav}}? --Rosiestep (talk) 15:43, 21 November 2015 (UTC)

What do you want me to do there? Include those VTE links? There isn't anything broken from what I can see.  Done --Edgars2007 (talk/contribs) 16:10, 21 November 2015 (UTC)

Needs some TLC/article suggestions

Hi! I'm not sure what happened to my last post, but I was going to see if anyone was interested in editing the article for Sharifa Alkhateeb. I came across her via my work at the LVA and it looks like the article needs some TLC. I'm going to try to get around to it, but it might not be for a few days at least and I'm concerned that there may be some closeparaphrasing or copyvio there. It's just setting off my Spidey senses a little.

• You are correct, there was a copyvio and direct posting of text from this link. I extensively edited it to take out the promotional language and copyvio. Please feel free to change whatever. SusunW (talk) 17:00, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

Other than that, would anyone be interested in seeing if Eleanor Gladys Copenhaver Anderson would pass notability guidelines? She was a leader with the YWCA and was somewhat influential in Virginia.Most sources like this one mention her in relation to her husband, Sherwood Anderson, but maybe she's independently notable? The Dictionary of Virginia Biography also has a lengthy biography on her as well, although it isn't online. I can help provide a copy of the entry material for anyone, if they want. Tokyogirl79LVA (talk) 14:57, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

• Clearly independently notable. See [2], [3], [4], [5] SusunW (talk) 17:15, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

DYK nominations

We're seeing a lot of nominations of women scientists and architects over at DYK – so much that it's getting hard to build a prep set without 2 or 3 hooks about women! I'd just like to point out, though, that most of the hooks are emphasizing that the woman in question is the "first" in her country or profession. This may be true, but it starts sounding very repetitive, and we can't run more than one such hook in a prep set. Thanks to User:Maile66 for going through the approved hooks and suggesting more interesting angles. I would like to urge everyone who submits a DYK to please look for an interesting angle or aspect of the subject or her work, aside from being the "first", so we can ensure variety in the prep sets. Thank you, Yoninah (talk) 18:36, 19 November 2015 (UTC)

I agree but for another reason. Should we say that Ada Lovelace was the first woman computer programmer or the person who first imagined what a computer might be and what it could do. Oh and well done if we are giving DYK a bit of a problem - did they notice it when it was all men? However we don't need to underline that they are women as if its unusual that a woman can be a scientist etc. I'll stop. Victuallers (talk) 19:32, 19 November 2015 (UTC)

While I appreciate the significance of any woman being the first woman in her field of whatever it is, that woman had significant achievements to get there. And if she's notable enough for her own Wikipedia article, she didn't stop after becoming the first woman in her field. Marie Curie was the first woman to win a Nobel prize. But the reason for the prize, her research into radiation, is what benefited the world. — Maile (talk) 21:27, 19 November 2015 (UTC)

I agree and have tried to mix them up. I mean who isn't fascinated that platypi venom was discovered to have similar toxins to snake-, spider-, lizard- and sea anemone-venom all mixed together? But I am also thrilled if we can get 2-3 women per day in DYK, as that means we are making a difference in the imbalance of articles. SusunW (talk) 21:38, 19 November 2015 (UTC)

(Off-topic comment: I've lived in Australia my whole life and didn't know that platypuses were venomous until reading that DYK hook. Thanks Susun!) 97198 (talk) 02:34, 20 November 2015 (UTC)

Thanks very much to Maile and Yoninah for helping find interesting hooks - I love reading about the achievements that make these wonderful women scientists notable. (And to be quite honest...venomous platypuses make me not want to come to Australia! Sorry Sophie...) Keilana (talk) 03:34, 20 November 2015 (UTC)

@97198: I still want to visit Australia -- venomous platypuses won't keep me away. :) --Rosiestep (talk) 03:37, 20 November 2015 (UTC)

You're a braver woman than I, Rosie! ;) Keilana (talk) 03:56, 20 November 2015 (UTC)

Me too it's one of the many places on my bucket list. I do not, however, have any intention about finding out about that venom. The guy who got bit said it was worse than a shrapnel wound. But truly, thanks to everyone for pushing the DYKs through. Several would still be languishing without a little extra help. SusunW (talk) 04:18, 20 November 2015 (UTC)

This Sunday 11/22/15

If you're going to be working on Women in Science articles this Sunday, please consider signing in as virtual participant at the New York event: Wikipedia:Meetup/NYC/NYAS. --Rosiestep (talk) 00:12, 21 November 2015 (UTC)

Help needed

Hi, all of you ! I just created Bariza Ghezelani (a rescued of an AfD on French WP), but I am a French contributor, and I don't know enough which categories and portails/projects are to be choosen. So if you could have a look on the page, check it and improve it with categories and so on, it would be great ! Thanks, --La femme de menage (talk) 16:54, 21 November 2015 (UTC)

15.89%

I spoke with @Masssly and Maximilianklein and Frances this morning regarding their IEG-funded Wikipedia Gender Indicators project (WIGI). A big thank you to them for the research and design work on WIGI, which, in a nutshell, uses Wikidata data to present statistics about Wikipedia's women's biographies. Please take a look at the website -- this is a beta version -- hover over data points, review the graphs, and provide feedback. Their IEG grant will run out soon so our feedback could be a valuable component in determining whether or not to renew the grant. There are more eyes on this WiR talkpage than the IEG page; this discussion can be linked to the grant's page. (15.89%? That's the percentage of women's biographies on the English language Wikipedia per WIGI, effective yesterday.) --Rosiestep (talk) 19:34, 22 November 2015 (UTC)

I'm not sure where to leave feedback; is there a direct link in there somewhere? Montanabw^(talk) 21:03, 22 November 2015 (UTC)

I am not sure where to put comments either. What I know is that number is still dismal. What I know is that the project must continue if we are ever to be able to judge whether our efforts are making a difference. The alternative is the manual collection of data, which is both exhausting and uses up time that would be better spent creating new articles or improving existing ones. SusunW (talk) 20:19, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

@Masssly and Maximilianklein To clarify... We'll leave our comments about WIGI Beta on this talkpage as it gets a lot of eyes. Please watchlist it. --Rosiestep (talk) 20:33, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for the info. You need to advertise more for these kind of projects and task forces in other communities. I'm a user of Persian Wikipedia and I even didn't know such user group existed. I have been drawn into these discussions completely by chance. By the way, it seems that we have done a better job on Persian Wikipedia (20,27% of bios are about women). Persian Wikipedia is ranked 5th overall among all Wikipedias in this respect. I started a thread about the whole issue at our local Village Pump and introduced the above-mentioned user group. Feel free to drop me a line if I missed anything important. 4nn1l2 (talk) 11:00, 24 November 2015 (UTC)