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October 16

Location of Czech village Butterberg / Máselnik

I am searching for the exact geographical location of Butterberg (German) / Máselnik (Czech), a (possibly abandoned) village in the northern Bohemian county of Dauba / Dubá, classified as a part of the town of Sebitsch (German) / Dřevčice (Czech). Thus far, via google maps, I've been able to find a small collection of app. 8 houses just southwest of Dřevčice, which could be it.Butterberg (talk) 01:12, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

You seem to have found the correct location. According to this historic map, the former Butterberg is indeed that cluster of houses on the hill about 500 meters southwest of Dřevčice. Marco polo (talk) 02:07, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

Wow, that's an amazing web utility. I'd love to see that for my country (or any place I've actually been to). Jørgen (talk) 08:48, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

Well I am truly astonished. Thank you so much for the response. I didn't expect to get a quicker answer from my English query than from my German one, that's for sure.Butterberg (talk) 10:05, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

Entertainment Lawyer

where can i find an entertainment lawyer —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.45.210.81 (talk) 02:25, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

Try your local phone book. If you can't find one, call another lawyer and they may be able to point you in the right direction. Dismas|^(talk) 03:14, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

Contact your local bar association or law society - their website may have a directory with specialties as well. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 03:55, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

Do they maybe advertise in Variety (magazine)? Also, typing in "Entertainment Lawyer" into Google caused a large number of them to scurry out of the woodwork. SteveBaker (talk) 13:20, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

superstitions

can anyone tell me which is the most superstitious country (and also the least)? is there any survey about this? please inform me.

thanx —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.50.136.193 (talk) 02:43, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

This sounds like an impossible to answer question. On the first, what constitutes a superstition? How does one draw the line between a superstition and a religious practice? I'm not sure this is a quantifiable concept. --Jayron32 02:54, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

There is no straightforward answer, as these days the people of any country have less and less in common with each other and more in common with their peers in other countries. There is no doubt some correspondence with lack of education, so you could try investigating that aspect. Also, if you believe that religion is superstition you could try looking at the more religious countries. I suspect that isolated communities would tend to have more superstitious ideas and traditions than urban ones.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 08:01, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

Arguably Italy, in that it has the most churches per capita of any major country.[1] Red Act (talk) 10:26, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

Surprised nobody mentioned Vatican City yet... ~ Amory (u • t • c) 13:17, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

Or arguably Jamaica. I can't find a reliable online source, but googling "churches per capita" turns up a lot of hits that claim that the Guinness Book of World Records lists Jamaica as being the country with either the most churches per capita, or the most churches per square mile. Red Act (talk) 10:40, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

According to The Largest Atheist / Agnostic Populations the 10 most superstitious countries are Croatia followed by Cuba, Dominican Republic, Kyrgystan, Argentina, Albania, USA, Portugal, Mongolia, Kazakhstan. Dmcq (talk) 11:26, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

It seems even with their low numbers atheists are to blame for all the ills of America - see Glenn Beck blames godlessness for America's problems ;-) Dmcq (talk) 11:34, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

That would only be accurate if atheists and agnostic people were not superstitious - there are plenty of non-religious superstitions out there. Warofdreams talk 11:34, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

It wouldn't make too much difference to that list if the percent of professed agnostics and atheists who are really closet believers in superstitions is less than 50%. Dmcq (talk) 11:50, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

Do you have any references for that? Warofdreams talk 12:18, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

If you look at that list they only get to about 10% atheist with those. No 20 in the list gets up to 20% atheists, even if all the next 10 were 50% closet believers and the 10 I said weren't the US at 7 place would only move down a few places in the list, it is given as 3-9% atheist. AT the other end of the spectrum are places like Sweden or Japan where more than half the population are counted as atheists. Dmcq (talk) 14:22, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

Further to that, the list would still be accurate if the proportion of atheists who are superstitious is stable across countries. For example, if 99% of atheists are superstitious in all countries, that ranking won't change. Zain Ebrahim (talk) 11:56, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

Yes, but that's a big if. Superstitions, it seems to me, are based in culture - so there's every reason to expect variation. Warofdreams talk 12:18, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

How about Congo or Haiti? Witchcraft is not irregular in those places if I am not mistaken. I really wonder if I should offer any opinion at all, but I wonder if Japan is the least superstitious. They seem to generally have sane heads and sound minds. Vranak (talk) 15:32, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

Japanese superstitions and also Omamori perhaps. While the Japanese evidentially don't skip the number 4 in floors as is not uncommon among Chinese and Koreans they do skip the number 43 in maternity rooms (according to the first article). According to the second article they also skip the number 13 in hotels although you could argue that isn't because the Japanese themselves are superstitious but they are afraid Western tourists may be. I largely agree Shantavira. In particular, there's likely to be some (imperfect) correlation with education. Going by stuff like the number of churches is not going to work, there are plenty of superstitions not tied with organised religions. Thinking of Chinese cultures... I've already mention stuffed like tetraphobia but there's also other stuff tied to numbers like the belief the number 8 is lucky (remember the olympics?). There's also feng shui, stuff tied to veneration of the dead and beliefs in the afterlife, during the Chinese New Year and various other superstitions. Doesn't appear to be a general article but there is an unsourced one on that which I'm also more familiar with which is Superstitions of Malaysian Chinese. Quite a few of these are probably present in parts of China. Traditional matchmaking and astrology are also not uncommon and usually have some sort of superstitious aspect. Some of these may have been traditionally discouraged by the communist government particularly during the cultural revolution but there's obviously some acceptance even by the government, e.g. the olympics again. And perhaps a key point here. Quite a few of these beliefs are not uncommon among people who can be considered atheists or at least agnostic even if they do have spiritual or religious beliefs (as mentioned in atheism). In many parts of the Western world though, many atheists are irreligious and probably also significantly less likely to be superstitious. Therefore as Warofdreams said, it's a big if. Hitting on one final aspect, what are superstitions? Religions have already been addressed. But what about stuff like belief in urban legends such as fan deaths, or traditional medicine (which covers a wide variety of stuff from herbs or tiger bones or whatever, to acupuncture, to faith healing), or belief in evil government conspiracies, or that the holocaust didn't really happen, or that aliens have visited earth, or vaccine nonsense or Chinese restaurant syndrome etc? The other complicating factor is people may do stuff for cultural reasons or just out of habit without really 'believing' in the superstitions. BTW, as for that list, it doesn't have that many countries. It has virtually no Muslim countries and African countries. Place like Saudi Arabia may very well have less then 7% atheists (although accurate statistics would be almost impossible to come up with) Nil Einne (talk) 16:08, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

Baseball players, ranging from the devout to the atheist, typically will not step on the foul line when running on or off the field. Is that an American thing? Or is it a cultural thing? →Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots← 01:12, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

Bentham and Hooker

These are two well-known taxonomists.They spent most of their lives in India.They classified plants,animals and pretty much everything there was to classify.They conducted surveys of industries and even classified tabularly hundreds of Indian castes and sub-castes.Hooker even wrote about the peculiarities of people of each caste.But I could not find this "Caste Survey" anywhere.Does anyone know where it could be found?--Adi4094 (talk) 03:16, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

Not sure on the specific works you are looking for, but the people in question are George Bentham and Joseph Dalton Hooker. With those specific names, you should be able to track down the works you are seeking. --Jayron32 03:27, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

Are you sure they wrote on the people of each caste? In the British library catalogue I can find The flora of British India, Himalayan Journals: or, Notes of a Naturalist in Bengal, the Sikkim, and Nepal Himalayas, the Khasia Mountains, etc. and A Century of Indian Orchids by Hooker, and a lot of other botanical works by both men, but no studies of the caste system. Are you sure this isn't a mistranslation? What was your source that told you about them? --82.41.11.134 (talk) 22:26, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

Blocking calls to my landline phone

I've suddenly started getting loads of calls from annoying 'people' asking to speak to someone who doesn't live here. They are claiming to be Barclays Bank or Littlewoods but I doubt they are. One of them is just a machine. I've searched their numbers online and found loads of others having similar problems with these numbers. So how do I block these calls? I'm in the UK and I've got a BT landline being run by Orange. Thanks.91.109.234.25 (talk) 18:57, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

You might like to look at Telephone Preference Service, It is free. I am subscribed to this and while it does not stop everything (we get calls with far-east accents asking for people we don't know, and then want to suddenly speak to us!!) it has reduced the annoying calls considerably. If it is an unrecorded call that sounds as though it might be from somewhere in the UK it is interesting to see what happens when you ask them for their contact number because you wish to report the infringement. Richard Avery (talk) 19:10, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

In the US I occasionally get some similar calls. Recently, the College of William and Mary was calling five or six times a day - as late as 21:00 - asking for money (a family member went there). Then they hung up when we didn't answer, making for an unpleasant answering machine recording! People that we didn't know also called from such far-fetched places as Denver, Miami, and Moncton, BC! Fortunately, I discovered a feature of my phone that shuts off calls from a particular number after Caller ID data comes through, so all you hear is one ring. If your phone doesn't have such a feature, then the phone company might do it for an extra fee. Xenon54 / talk / 19:35, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

My annoyance by telemarketers stopped when I installed an answering machine. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 10:27, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

..but the bill goes up when one has to call back. 86.4.186.107 (talk) 12:48, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

Don't know how it works in the UK, but in the US, you can get caller ID so you know who's calling, and answering machines where you can "pick up" in case it's a "real" call. With those two machines, in combination, you can effectively screen your calls. Just don't mention your name in the answering machine greeting - make it generic. →Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots← 22:30, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

(Click) You know who is not you know where so you know what to do when you hear the you know what. PEEP. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 20:33, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

Phones have become another spam conduit, just like email. Putting your number on an opt-out list just tells spammers that the number actually reaches a person, so you get MORE spam. There is really nothing to do under the current phone system other than install some kind of client side filtering that prevents your phone from ringing unless the call presents a white-listed caller ID or else the person calling enters an access code after your machine answers. There is talk here in the US of adding another digit or two to phone numbers once the North American Numbering Plan fills up in a few years. Personally if I could have a 20-digit phone number (long enough to be immune to war dialing) I'd want one. My friends could put it in their speed dialers so the length wouldn't be a problem for them. 69.228.171.150 (talk) 19:58, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

Energy Drinks vs Coffee

Is caffeine the sole active ingredient in Energy Drinks that provide mental stimulation to increase alertness? If so, then will a bottle of energy drink containing 150 mg of caffeine provide the same stimulation as a cup of coffee providing 150 mg of caffeine? Do all the other stuff such us ginseng, taurine, vitamin B's have any role in mental stimulation? Thanks. Acceptable (talk) 19:18, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

See Ginseng. Who then was a gentleman? (talk) 20:26, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

Also, do not forget that sugar is food energy. Much of the sugar in your energy drink will reach your brain at some point and provide fuel. Googlemeister (talk) 20:57, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

We have articles on each of those ingredients which describe their benefits, if any. You can look the information up as easily as we can... --Mr.98 (talk) 16:19, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

BBC radio archive

Does a recording exist of the BBC quarterly programme "The Countryside in Summer" for 1954, 1955, 1956, 1957? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.101.222.133 (talk) 21:04, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

I would suggest you go to the BBC radio website [2] and contact them. I have found them very helpful in the past. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.4.186.107 (talk) 05:49, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

Translation of the word "free"

In reading some of the comments about the possible meaning of "free" and the possibility of purposeful ambiguity, I wondered if the word "libre" in the Spanish and French versions conveyed the proper range of meaning. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Waltermclauren (talk • contribs) 22:14, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

I am having difficulty understanding the question. "Versions" of what? Are you talking about the translation of an English work to Spanish or French, or a translation of a Spanish or French work to English; or are you asking whether the word "libre" would be nicely unambiguous to use in the English language in general circumstances? (And this question probably belongs on the Language reference desk, where people smarter than I, about languages at least, reside.) Comet Tuttle (talk) 22:28, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

In French, "libre" means free in the sense "without constraint", and "gratuit" or "gratis" mean "without paying" (source: Concise Collins Robert dictionary). This is different to English, which has only one word for both meanings. I assume the question refers to the free speech vs free beer distinction. I don't know Spanish but I believe they have a similar division. Wikipedia has an article Gratis versus Libre. --82.41.11.134 (talk) 22:30, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

Incidentally, Wikipedia:Reference desk/Language might be a better place to ask this. --82.41.11.134 (talk) 22:31, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

Cúba libre? —— Shakescene (talk) 22:53, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

"Vive le Quebec libre!" Words of Charles DeGaulle that endeared him to the rest of Canada. We use "gratis" in English to mean no-cost. "Gratis" is from Latin, "Free" is from the German side of English. "Liberation" is freedom in English. Etc. →Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots← 23:25, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

I hope you're kidding about endearing himself to the rest of Canada. As far as I know, that angered a lot of Canadians who (rightly, in my opinion) thought that he was meddling into Canada's internal politics. See Quebec seperatism#Emergence. Or actually, Vive le Québec libregENIUS101 19:19, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

"Gratis" as a root has to do with "pleasing". Something that's "gratis" is a "favor", rather than charging for it. Another good English word for something free of charge is "complimentary". →Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots← 23:38, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

"Free" in the sense of no payment in English is really short for "free of charge". There's the common English colloquialism, "Free, gratis and for nothing." —— Shakescene (talk) 00:03, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

‘I wondered if the word "libre" in the Spanish and French versions conveyed the proper range of meaning’ really calls for the services of a recent troll. Or those tiresome (and almost always mistaken) souls who always harp, "The —–— have no word for ———" [war, hatred, revenge, etc.] On the other hand, one of the purposes of Newspeak in George Orwell's Nineteen Eighty-four was to limit the meaning of words like "free", so that while "equal", for example, still existed as a word, "all mans is equal" would be as obviously absurd as "all mans have red hair". Thus "Freedom is Slavery" on the walls of the Ministry of Love (miniluv). —— Shakescene (talk) 00:13, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

Though, in a strict sense, "all men are equal" is false and obviously absurd unless you mean, "equal before the eyes of the law" — and even then, it's an ideal, not a reality. --Mr.98 (talk) 16:18, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

This comes up in the OpenSource software community all the time - the ambiguity of the word "free" in the context of "free software" in English has often been a source of confusion. Hence, it has come to be explained as "free (as in free beer!)" versus "free (as in free speech)"...and of course not all OpenSourced software is both of those things, so the need to disambiguate is paramount. We might say "Firefox is free (as in beer) and also free (as in speech) - but Internet Explorer is only free (as in beer)." SteveBaker (talk) 03:25, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

I've always thought "free as in beer" told you a little too much about the demographic in question... --Mr.98 (talk) 16:18, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

Here are lots of English dictionaries whose many definitions of "free" you can scour. For when and how these meanings have arisen see the etmology of free. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 10:19, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

There are many, many senses of the word "free": something can be "free" because it is unrestrained ("free speech", "free-running water"), independent ("free state"), or liberated ("freeman"); because it is available for no cost ("free lunch"); or because it is rid of some contaminant or substance ("sugar-free"); or because it is not occupied or engaged ("a free seat", "free time"). There are a number of universities called Someplace Free University, which are "free" because they are independent and nondenominational, not necessarily because they don't charge tuition. --FOo (talk) 04:06, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

We have an article, Gratis versus Libre, that describes two meanings of "free" when applied to information. 69.228.171.150 (talk) 19:59, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

October 17

i want to know some info. about Britanniya industry, taratola,kolkata

information about Britanniya industry, taratola, kolkata,

about their.
  1. general information.
  2. environment.
  3. product and progress.
  4. marketing.
  5. finance.
  6. human resorce.Prasenjitghosh (talk) 05:40, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

I suggest you look at their official website.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 08:00, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

Argument of silence (conspiracy theories)

Can anyone direct me to an article (or article section) that describes the "argument of silence" in relation to conspiracy theories... i.e. the claim that the lack of information on a subject is evidence in itself that the information sought after has been covered up?

Its likely described under a different name. The similar Argument from silence doesn't appear to be what I'm looking for (the silence in that scenario seems to be interpreted as an indication that the silent party does not have the information they previously claimed to have, not the silent party denying they have the information in the first place), and it doesn't look like there is anything in conspiracy theory or cover-up (or if there is, I missed it).

Thanks in advance. -- saberwyn 09:51, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

I assume you looked at Conspiracy_theory#Study of conspiratism that gives some useful links in the section "Psychological origins". The article UFO conspiracy theory describes the classic case of alleged suppression of information. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 10:12, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

This isn't what you asked for, but I think the "argument of silence" is a case of affirming the consequent, if that helps. (If there is a cover-up, there will be no information: there is no information, therefore there is a cover-up.) 213.122.50.254 (talk) 11:34, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

I believe Argument from ignorance and Evidence of absence are what you're looking for. It comes up a lot in Religious arguments against Evolution, as well. ~ Amory (u • t • c) 12:09, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

There have been, incidentally, times when this has been true. Georgii Flerov used the fact that no American scientists were publishing on nuclear fission in 1942 to deduce that the US had indeed started a nuclear weapons program. The Manhattan Project did enforce rigorous scientific and press censorship as a means of keeping their work secret. --Mr.98 (talk) 15:05, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

It has been suggested that the silence of the Kennedys helped to unwittingly fuel the conspiracy theories about the JFK assassination. →Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots← 15:33, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

Well, right, perception of silence can fuel conspiracy theories; what I'm offering up here is an instance in which that was actually correct (that is, the "conspiracy theory" was valid, and the silence was evidence of it). --Mr.98 (talk) 16:13, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

No question. →Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots← 16:48, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

A paranoid person perceives themself as central figure in events which have no reference to them in reality as directed at or about them, though the evidence to support that perception is only silence. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 16:41, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

You've hit upon the attraction of conspiracy theories - the idea that there is "secret information" that only certain ones are "in on", thus lending artificial importance to their drab, wretched lives. (Borrowing a Tom Lehrer quote.) The Moon hoax fairy tale is one of those. So is "Area 51", the "top-secret" government testing location that everyone knows about. →Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots← 16:48, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

Erm, except scarequote Area 51 scarequote is a top-secret government testing location that everyone knows about. FiggyBee (talk) 21:17, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

The nature of the tests is secret. The location is not. And the absence of information about the specific tests, leads to speculation about UFO's and other such nonsense. →Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots← 22:26, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

Just to elaborate on the Flerov example, the reason why the Soviet government didn't label Flerov a looney is because 1. he was actually an expert in the field he was talking about, and 2. there was good reason to suspect that the publications would be there if people were working on it openly (there were hundreds of publications relating to fission just before WWII... and then suddenly, almost nothing). These are, of course, rather specific conditions—ones that most conspiracy theories don't meet. --Mr.98 (talk) 18:34, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

I don't think you can say the silence was any sort of evidence of the existence of the nuclear weapons program. It may have been evidence of the scientist's and the government's wish to keep it secret, but in order to link those two things, you first have to know not only that there's something they're keeping a secret about, but also specifically what that secret is. In other words, you have to be an "insider". Otherwise, we could leap to all sorts of weird conclusions, such as "The government has never made any statements about a race of purple aliens living in the deep forests of Paraguay, so that proves there is a a race of purple aliens living in the deep forests of Paraguay". -- JackofOz (talk) 21:43, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

Well, yes, but you're ignoring the history involved and I'm not sure why. It wasn't the absence of articles, it was the sharp reduction in articles that provided the evidence. That was suspicious. Matt Deres (talk) 23:05, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

There's a risk in trying to interpret silence. In the case of The Bomb, someone guessed right. But think of something mundane, such as a police investigation. Sometimes silence means they are closing in on a suspect and don't want to give away the game; other times it means they haven't a clue, and they've turned their attention to other cases. →Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots← 23:11, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

And it's true that one can guess wrong historically as well. The President of the University of California knew that the physicists were working on a secret project, but didn't know what. He guessed it was a death ray. That was incorrect (but close enough to rankle Manhattan Project security when he made it public). --Mr.98 (talk) 23:27, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

Thank you all for some enlightening reading. -- saberwyn 10:21, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

The phrase I am familiar with is conspiracy of silence - try searching for that. 78.151.108.233 (talk) 15:22, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

Social Security in the Untied States, and different costs of living

If I'm reading right, Social Security payments in the U.S. are the same from state to state; at least, from what I've read, it doesn't sound like an averge. Why is this, considering that the cost of living in, say, New York City is so much different than the cost of living in rural Iowa, for instance? I understand that it would be hard to recalculate every time a person moved, and really would have been before computers, so it makes sense that it didn't factor in every locality in the U.S. at first. Still, the checks have to go somewhere, at least into a bank account? With computers now, wouldn't it be pretty easy to at least calculate every year?

Or, am I misunderstanding, and there really are differences between localities? I saw nothing in the Social Security debate (all about privization versus not, and other issues), or in our articles as I skimmed, t least.4.68.248.130 (talk) 14:20, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

I don't know if it is the same everywhere or not, but if it is the reason could be one of fairness. While wages (and therefore tax payments) are higher in places with a higher cost of living, there is nothing stopping someone working all their life in a low wage area and then moving to a high state pension area and getting more that the share they paid for (or vice versa). --Tango (talk) 15:03, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

Good piont, I hadn't thought of that.4.68.248.130 (talk) 17:27, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

Though... one could also move into a place where money went further and get the same benefit, theoretically. You could imagine a rather fair system—e.g., something like the per diem system, where different cities have different costs of living associated with them, and your social security rates would be some percentage of a maximum rate for that given area. But that would be complicated. --Mr.98 (talk) 18:37, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

Then there are the people who aren't even living in the US and are collecting SS checks. I worked with a retired guy here in China that was getting ~$500 a month in SS. $500 a month in rural China is a king's ransom. It covered all his (quite comfortable) living expenses and what he made teaching English was all just play money. 218.25.32.210 (talk) 07:20, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Foreign taxi drivers in the US

How do foreigners become a taxi driver in the US? I suppose they don't get a green card as highly skilled workers, do they?--Quest09 (talk) 18:04, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

You don't need a green card to work. If search and read Permanent residence (United States) you'll find that is says right in the beginning that while the application is pending aliens can receive a work card, namely the Employment Authorization Document. There are also other visas (such as for students) that allow aliens to work. Also, just because someone looks different and has different customs than you doesn't make them foreign. ~ Amory (u • t • c) 21:53, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

"Foreigners" in the sense of "foreign born", i.e. "immigrants", although you can't always judge that, either. To work legally you need to be here legally, of course. And we get lots of legal immigrants every year. →Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots← 02:15, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

Working in the USA

Inspired by the question above, I'm curious about this too. I'm what Quest09 might call a "highly skilled worker", yet most/all employers who I consider applying for a job with, have a note that applicants must be eligible to work in the USA. I understand that to mean a non-resident foreigner such as myself, would already need to have a H-1B visa to even be considered for employment. And yet that visa must be applied for by the employer some months in advance and a substantial fee paid (again by the employer).

It seems to me that I need to already have a H-1B visa to be considered for employment, yet the visa application cannot be made without having a job to go in the first place. How does a foreigner get a job in the USA (whether a taxi driver or something else)? Astronaut (talk) 23:23, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

Some employers will only consider persons who are already eligible to work in the United States: citizens and resident foreigners with visas permitting work other than the H-1B. The most common such visa is the IR type. Other employers are willing to sponsor a foreigner for an H-1B visa, but these are typically employers who are unable to find qualified applicants who are already eligible to work in the United Statesfor unfilled positions . In this economy, there are fewer such positions available than in the past. It is not enough to be highly skilled. One must have a skill that employers cannot find in adequate supply among existing US residents. Marco polo (talk) 02:14, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

Apparantly you can work or settle in the USA without any restrictions if you have a master's degree. 78.151.108.233 (talk) 15:25, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

That's not true. I think you are talking about an EB2 visa - that's for "Professionals holding advanced degrees (Ph.D., master's degree, or at least 5 years of progressive post-baccalaureate experience) or persons of exceptional ability in sciences, arts, or business" - but there is a quota of 40,000 of those per year - they aren't granted automatically - and you have to jump through a lot of hoops to get one. However, that's not a permanent status - it takes many years and many lawyers to turn that into a green card. SteveBaker (talk) 16:29, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

Aren't their restrictions on criminal records (particularly offences committed in the USA)? --Tango (talk) 16:12, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

I'm not that interested in gaining US citizenship or becoming a permanent resident and I'm not closely related to a US citizen, but nor am I a criminal. Unfortunately, with my skill-set, around half the world's temporary contract positions are based in the USA, yet it seems impossible to apply for them unless I am already permitted to work in the USA. Unsurprisingly, most potential employers are unwilling to jump through the USCIS's hoops, pay the fee and wait some time, just to hire someone on a 6 or 12 months contract.

All of which brings us to the taxi drivers mentioned by Quest09 in the question above. If it is made so difficult for me to secure temporary work in the USA, how is it apparently so easy for a foreigner to get a visa and work as a taxi driver? - of course, I'm assuming there is some truth in the TV/movie stereotype of the foreigner arriving in New York City and immediately getting work as a taxi driver. Astronaut (talk) 02:16, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

With cab drivers, the immigrants often arrive in North America with very different skills, but end up working as cab drivers because it's one of the few jobs available. Why ? because the pay is poor and the level of skills required quite low, which means turnout is high and there are always openings for those willing to work the night hours of a car owned by another driver. As a result, immigrants who have made it to North America, either with a degree that that does not translate into employment here, or without a degree through the Green Card lottery, refugee resettlement, or other non-skill based immigration programs, end up working in the sector in large numbers.

It happens in all sorts of other low-paying, low-skill areas of the economy - cleaning staff, slaughterhouse workers, restaurant employees - but cab drivers tend to have more direct dealings with the public than other such jobs, so they get noticed more. In Canada, it is a cliché that an immigrant with an engineering degree from the developing world will end up driving a taxicab. Also, one should not compare cab drivers in North America, which is a low-skilled profession, with those in London or other European cities in which obtaining a license requires passing a demanding exam. --Xuxl (talk) 18:25, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Indeed: "The knowledge" (as the London 'black cab' Taxi-driver exam is called) is a gruelling test. You literally have to memorize the entire map of London - including one-way systems, speed limits, where the traffic snarls are - and to be able to describe the most efficient route from any street to any other completely from memory. Most applicants take close to three years(!) to learn what they need. The average person takes 12 attempts to get through the exam! That's tougher than most college degrees. One presumes that on arrival in the US, there are few jobs one can just walk into. Even if you have good qualifications, it can take months to find a job. What do you do in the meantime? Drive a cab. I suspect that for a lot of these people, this is a second job - one they can do for a few hours in the evenings after their day-job. SteveBaker (talk) 02:54, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Engineering degrees? Here in New Zealand it's nuclear scientists [3] [4]. Actually when I think about it, it's a rather silly cliche. While we do have a Institute of Geological and Nuclear Sciences New Zealand isn't exactly a great place for nuclear scientists, we don't even have an operational research reactor [5]. Nil Einne (talk) 18:27, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Alot of skilled people work in the US on other visa types, for example J-1 visas. These are significantly cheaper and easier to get than H1Bs. With regards to taxi drivers, in addition to Steve's suggestion many of these may have legal status via the diversity lottery, family members of other legal immigrants or perhaps even illegal immigrants.Rockpocket 05:42, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

Who came up with 4 rings when you call someone to be acceptable

Why is it 4 rings on a phone before you disconnect? why not 3 or 5? Who came up with this number that everyone seems to follow? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ivtv (talk • contribs) 23:32, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

In what circumstances is this a "rule"? I often call and will wait for a dozen rings or more before deciding that the person I'm calling is not there. Astronaut (talk) 23:37, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

I've never heard of it. If you follow it, don't - rings are meaningless. The rings you hear in no way correspond to the rings the person on the other end hears. If it takes a long time to connect, you can easily hear five or six rings before the target phone rings once. And that's not to mention the fact that ringtones usually play once - does that count as one ring? ~ Amory (u • t • c) 23:43, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

I never hang up after as few as 4 rings (unless I suddenly change my mind about wanting to talk to that person at all). I give them a minimum of 10, usually more like 20. It's incredibly irritating when you're away from the phone when it rings, and you rush to answer it, only for them to have just hung up. So I don't do that to my phonointerlocutors. -- JackofOz (talk) 01:15, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

I agree entirely. I get very annoyed with anyone hanging up after fewer than seven or eight rings - there are circumstances in which it's simply not possible to get to a phone in that time (mobiles included). I find only four rings an astonishingly small number to use as a "rule". FWIW, I usually wait 50 seconds (17 rings - a ring lasts one second and gaps between rings are two seconds*) before hanging up. Grutness...wha? 01:39, 18 October 2009 (UTC) (* yes, I was bored one day and timed it.)

Besed on at least canada it is 4 rings and the way the phone system works is when I hear a ring its silent on their end. On my silence it rings on their end. After 4 rings and a silence we hang up. Thought it was a world thing haha. if someone called my land line and let it ring 10-20 times i would answer and lose my mind for being rude. Ivtv (talk) 01:43, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

Typically it's four rings before the answering machine kicks in. It's always been that way as far as I know. ('Always' being a relative term, as answering machines started to become widely popular sometime in the 1970s or so.) You can set it to fewer rings, typically. It's probably that someone estimated the average amount of time it would take the average person to get up and walk across the room. →Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots← 02:11, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

And if no answering machine kicks in, normally you would stick around for awhile, minimum 8 rings, perhaps. →Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots← 02:13, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

Baseball Bugs, about answering machines' four rings standard: Answering machine designers likely had to choose a number of rings high enough to let the receiving party answer the phone if they're home, but also low enough to prevent callers from hanging up before leaving a message. (If no one left a message, an answering machine wouldn't be useful.) Four rings was likely the compromise that's become standard. --Bavi H (talk) 04:11, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

Ivtv: The practice of hanging up if there's no answer after four rings was likely originally related to avoiding answering machines. Perhaps this behavior might just be a learned habit by newer generations of phone users in your area. Or maybe the people in your area are less patient to wait for an answer.

Here's the only situation in which I would hang up in such a short time. In the US, pay phones refund your money if there's no answer. If I was stranded and needed a ride, but only had enough change to make one pay-phone call, I would hang up before the end of the fourth ring to avoid getting an answering machine. I could then call someone else for help, or try calling the same number again to see if a person answered. --Bavi H (talk) 04:11, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

First, it should be noted that the speed of ringing varies from one country to another. In the US and Canada it's one ring every 6 seconds. Ann Landers used to say in her column that 10 rings was appropriate, giving the person one minute get to the phone. I still go by that (and my home phone goes to voicemail on the 8th ring), but some people today seem to think that it's much too long. They probably assume everyone either has a cellphone or a phone in every room of their house. But that's not actually true, and besides, the person might need at least a few seconds to finish their Reference Desk reply before picking up the phone. --Anonymous, 07:11 UTC, October 18, 2009.

I've never heard of a "rule" existing and I always go by a mutu (a Finnish expression meaning "what I feel like") basis. I typically hang up after a few rings, or just after the answering machine kicks in, if I'm phoning a relative or friend I know who I can phone again. If it's an important business call I leave a message. JIP | Talk 18:09, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

This seems to be a cultural variable, and also differs according to the time between rings, evidently twice as long in North America. In the UK, I usually count 17 rings (50 secs) about 8 rings in USA? exactly like Grutness (above), except for people who always leave an answer phone connected, then I give six rings, wait ten seconds, then ring again if I really need a discussion rather than just leaving a message. I find it really annoying when people are too impatient to wait a reasonable time for me to answer. We don't all sit by the phone just waiting for it to ring. When I can afford it (and when technology catches up), I want a phone connected to a computer that will tell me who is ringing, and respond to a voice command to switch on the speakerphone. This has been possible for about twenty-five years, but I've never seen it marketed, so I'll just have to write a program myself. Dbfirs 19:33, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

When I call someone (in the UK), I will usually leave it about a dozen rings, or longer if I particularly need to get in touch with them. That seems to be about how long it takes the voicemail to kick in on mobiles too. On our home BT phone, the answering machine picks up after 6 rings, or after 2 if there are already messages on the machine so that you don't have to wait yonks if you're dialling in to get your messages. (The latter I find exceptionally annoying) An Internet search suggests that between anywhere between 2 and 9 rings is a common interval before an answering machine picks up with the preset usually 4 or 6. --Kateshortforbob _talk 20:52, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

(Click) You know who is not you know where so you know what to do when you hear the you know what. PEEP. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 20:59, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

I'll join with others above in saying that the "four rings" rule has to do with answering machines. My own machine has an optional setting, answer after two rings if I have messages, four if I don't. This saves me a long-distance charge if I'm checking for messages from far away. (Note Kateshort, I can configure that, so maybe you can quell your own annoying feature)

I also think that short waiting times for phones to be answered are a product of our times. In many cases, my call really isn't so important that it needs to be answered at once, so I'd rather avoid the answering machine, which most people have nowadays in some form. And many phones nowadays have caller-ID and call-history, so my hanging up after four rings is a form of courtesy, "I'd like to talk to you but not if you're eating lunch". In the old days it was far different of course, people ran from wherever they were to answer the phone and the courteous thing was to give them enough time to finish their bath and put a robe on - but that was when phone calls were unique and important. Nowadays I don't ever answer my home phone, it's far too likely to be someone offering to clean my carpets or tell me how I've won a "free" trip to Florida. Franamax (talk) 21:36, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

This is definitely an answering machine setting. I had to reset it yesterday because my power went out. I recall setting rings before pickup to 4. It told me that "it was the default setting, and would be chosen if no number was pressed."  Buffered Input Output 18:21, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

When I ring someone I know to work in a cubicle or other shared office space, I hang up after three rings. If there's no answer, either he/she is away from their desk or is too busy to answer the phone. No need to annoy the cubicle-mates with interminable ringing. Weepy.Moyer (talk) 14:10, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

October 18

hand grenades

Will an exploding fragmentation grenade start a fire in dry grass?65.78.183.48 (talk) 01:13, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

Every grenade range I've been on has been free of vegetation (wonder why?), but It is very common in dry conditions for fires to erupt in the impact area of ranges using everything from small arms to mortar and arty. On a range, it will usually burn itself out due to the sparsity of vegetation. By the way, don't play with frag's. If you have found one, call the base range control/EOD or your local police. 173.124.206.41 (talk) 02:32, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

I always thought that your standard military hand grenade was just a pressure system with chemicals that caused a shrapnel explosion without fire. It is not the explosion that kills it is the balls that fire off in all directions. Use matches to start a fire not a hand grenade.

Ivtv (talk) 02:45, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

Um, what? A hand grenade is a metal (steel?) case around a lump of explosive, with a fuse (that burns) down the middle. There's a mechanical device to ignite the fuse at the top end (at one time percussive; not sure if they still are) and at the bottom end a I presume a detonator would be needed to initiate the main charge (I'm guessing it's high rather than low-order explosive). As you can see from my various caveats and assumptions, I'm not an expert in the field, but I can tell you that there is no "pressure system", "chemicals" (apart from the explosives), or "balls that fire off". The means of doing damage is the fragments (hence the name) of the steel case as it is blown apart by the explosion. 93.97.184.230 (talk) 10:44, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

We have an article on hand grenades, of course, that describe how they work. Some fragmentation grenades do have ball bearings or fletchettes in them to provide shrapnel damage; others get all of their shrapnel from the casing. It's true though that the system that disperses them is indeed explosive. It's true though that the explosion need not be very large or killing in and of itself—it depends on the kind of grenade it is. (Hence "sting grenades", where the ball bearings are replaced by plastic balls, and are meant to be less-lethal.) --Mr.98 (talk) 13:11, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

(EC) The section on fragmentation grenades explains what's inside them. --KageTora - SPQW - (影虎) (talk) 13:14, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

When you look at grenade explosions (eg on YouTube) you see stuff like this: [6] - which is a real grenade explosion - and has no sign of flame, just a big cloud of dust and smoke. It's not at all like a video-game or movie grenade eg: [7]. I wouldn't say it was impossible to set grass on fire that way - but it's not likely. SteveBaker (talk) 16:17, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

I don't see why you mean it's not likely to start a fire. Just think that the explosion is throwing stones against each other. That could result in the spark needed to start a fire on dry grass.--Quest09 (talk) 16:59, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

I didn't say it was impossible - I said it was unlikely. Despite what you suggest, I stand by that statement. SteveBaker (talk) 02:40, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Steve, if we suppose that dry grass starts to burn at the same temperature of dry paper, 451°F (232.8°C), do you still think it is unlikely to set dry grass on fire? For example, if the hand grenade is a smoke grenade you can almost be sure that it will set dry grass on fire. According to the article: "The reaction is exothermic and grenade casings will remain scalding hot for some time even after the grenade is no longer emitting smoke." And if the OP means a common fragmentation grenade, I also deem it pretty probable that it will set a fire on dry grass, since the explosion has to fragment the casing of the grenade to produce shrapnel, which will certainly be very hot.Quest09 (talk) 15:26, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Fahrenheit 451, first paragraph after opening sentence. Yes, it is unlikely. 86.140.149.215 (talk) 14:30, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

Tactically it's easy to imagine why you wouldn't want grenades to set fire, like if they are thrown into a building, you wouldn't necessarily want to start a fire, if you did want to start a fire then you'd use an incendiary grenade. Vespine (talk) 21:40, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

Indeed. Control over the effects of weaponry is a vital aspect of the design of things like grenades. SteveBaker (talk) 02:40, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

If a dumb blonde throws a pin at you, take cover. She's holding a grenade. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 07:14, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

To answer the OP, yes it will. Almost any kind of grenade will set dry grass, wooden buildings, etc. alight. That includes CS canisters. Weepy.Moyer (talk) 14:32, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

Tanks Going Through Walls

In the 1977 film Cross of Iron, there is one scene where a Russian T-34 is about to burst through the wall of a factory, and before doing so, it fires a round at the wall so there is a hole at the exact point where the main gun would go through, thus, presumably, saving it from extensive damage when the rest of the tank follows. Is this normally what would have happened? In order to burst through a wall, would the crew have to take a precaution such as this so as not to damage the gun? If so, what would be the usual round for this type of work? A HE round (possibly creating a larger hole) or an AP round (creating a hole big enough for the gun)? What would happen to hull-mounted or coaxial weapons? I presume a turret mounted outside machine gun would be damaged by falling bricks. --KageTora - SPQW - (影虎) (talk) 13:25, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

It would be more typical to rotate the turret to face backwards prior to gently nudging the wall into collapse - then driving over the resulting rubble - but it's pretty rare to want to drive a tank through a building - there are all sorts of external antennae, tools and other stuff that you wouldn't want to wreck. It's dramatic for a movie - but has little tactical value. SteveBaker (talk) 16:02, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

Not to mention strapped on rucksacks and duffel. A brick hung up in in the track has a high chance of "blowing track", causing it to roll off the sprockets. If the building has a basement, a tank would probably break through. You don't want debris hung up in the main gun. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 16:19, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

Add the fact that any upper wall or roof would probably collapse on top of the tank and you've got a suicide mission.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 17:21, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

In the movie "Tank" (1984) James Garner removed the machine gun from the turret of his pet Sherman tank and reversed the turret so the gun trailed before ramming the tank through the wall of a jail to free his son. Building materials falling on a gunbarrel could bend it or break the elevating mechanism, rendering it useless. Treads are easily broken or jammed. Edison (talk) 00:51, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

This reminded me of the opening scene of Richard III by Ian McKellen where a tank penetrates a wall but suffers no problems. --Blue387 (talk) 08:31, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

So, given the amount of evidence and common sense to the contrary, it is shocking to have to acknowledge that this type of scene appears quite often in war films. Thanks, everyone. --KageTora - SPQW - (影虎) (talk) 12:25, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

I don't know why you're shocked. Movie makers do this kind of thing all the time. When is the last time you saw a car drive off a cliff-side road in a movie, rolling over and over and then exploding? Why would it explode? How many people have you seen who avoid being shot by ducking down below the level of the windows in a car? Almost any bullet will go through a twentieth of an inch of steel, a thin sheet of plastic and some padding and kill the person on the other side. How many cars have you seen exploding after someone put a bullet through the gas tank? The Mythbusters fired hundreds of rounds from dozens of weapons at the gas tanks of cars without getting so much as a flame. A spaceship out in the vacuum of space making a noise? How is the sound being transmitted?! Lasers travelling so slowly that people can dodge them? What exactly is the speed of light? I could go on and on. There are vast numbers of things they show time after time in movies that are quite utterly bogus. So tank-driving-through-a-wall - it's just another one of those spectacular things that movie makers love. At least in this case, it's plausible that a sizeable tank at full speed could demolish a house - it's just not plausible that a tank driver would generally choose to do that. SteveBaker (talk) 02:36, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

With the lasers, it all depends on what they are travelling through - you need some slow light. Warofdreams talk 14:02, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

There _is_ a well-known wartime German film showing a (real) Tiger II (I think) driving through a (real) house - not as spectacular as the movies, but it's still technically possible (with a big tank and a house that's about to fall down anyway). Tevildo (talk) 20:35, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Yeah - it's absolutely possible. I don't think anyone is disputing that. It's just not a wise thing to do in battle - it has little or no tactical value and it can do bad things to your tank. But for publicity, movies, bravado, winning a bet, advertising - whatever - it can certainly be done. Most (if not all) tanks have the power to do that - and are strong enough that nobody's going to get harmed. I knew a tank commander in the British army back in the 1970's and he said that one time when they were on manouvers in Germany, they drove through a farmyard and the farmer asked them if they would please 'nudge' the corner of his barn so it would collapse and he could claim compensation and get a new barn out of it. He said that they basically drove along close and parallel to the barn until the back of the tank was almost level with one end - then did a quick 90 degree turn on the spot - causing the back end of the tank to "accidentally" knock the corner post - resulting in the collapse of more or less the entire structure. Aparrently this is a common mistake for novice tank drivers to make because they expect the tank to turn in an arc like a car. SteveBaker (talk) 05:05, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

tanks are a lot more fragile than people realize, except for things like bullets and shells. as mentioned above, the treads are pretty vulnerable. on the other hand, the average house around here at least could probably be taken down by a runaway Buick without doing much more than cosmetic damage to it. Gzuckier (talk) 17:19, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

Vegetarianism and absolutism

My sister is a vegetarian and a woman I know is an absolutist. But how common is it to be both at the same time? Is this more common among men or women? JIP | Talk 18:01, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

From the Wikipedia article absolutism, it doesn't appear that my intended meaning of "absolutist" is clear. It means one who abstains from alcohol. JIP | Talk 18:03, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

Well we don't called such a person an "absolutist" but rather a teetotaler -- 41.136.72.103 (talk) 19:06, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

Absolutist seems to be a Swedish term for a person dedicated to sobriety. Maybe a subtle advertisement for this Swedish based producer of vegetarian refreshments? --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 19:38, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

I would presume quite a few people with strong religions regions for being vegetarian, e.g. Buddhist vegetarianism or Christian vegetarianism among monks/brothers/nuns would also likely refrain from drinking alcohol if their religious beliefs prohibit or discourage it, e.g. Buddhism#Buddhist ethics [8] [9]. This obviously doesn't directly answer how common it is. Nil Einne (talk) 20:03, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

Personally, I absolutely refuse to drink non-vegetarian alcohol.DOR (HK) (talk) 06:41, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Yes, I was thinking yesterday that, at the very least, you can rule out any meat-based wines. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 12:24, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Well, you can forget traditional scrumpy then. Mikenorton (talk) 16:04, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

First of all, yuck.

Second, one of the things I've learned from WP is that some vegetarians have scruples about drinking beer that has been clarified with isinglass, a product made from fish scales swimbladders. I wonder what fraction of vegetarians, or even vegans, really manage to avoid all byproducts of the meat industry. It would be fairly difficult. --Trovatore (talk) 23:06, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

For example, the question of what those vegetables were fertilized with. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 13:04, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Using animal excrement as fertilizer still allows the animal to live comfortably until natural death. Wearing leather shoes or a leather watchstrap do not. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 07:10, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

Some wines are also clarified with animal products.Sjö (talk) 08:56, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

World-wide, I don't think most teetotalers are vegetarian, since the major religions that prohibit alcohol (Islam and some Protestant sects) don't particularly encourage vegetarianism. And I don't think most vegetarians are teetotalers, since the main religions that promote vegetarianism (Jainism and Hinduism) don't have admonitions against alcohol. If there is a positive correlation between vegetarianism and teetotalism, I don't believe it's a strong one.

Two cultural groups I can think of in which it would be very common to find people who are both a teetotaler and a vegetarian are the straight edge culture, and the Seventh Day Adventists. Red Act (talk) 08:29, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Hinduism may not formally ban alcohol, but as I understand it there is little tradition of alcoholic drink in India. I'm not exactly sure why. But if I'm correct about that, there may be an enormous number of combined vegetarians and non-alcohol-drinkers (perhaps not "teetotalers" formally, just that the issue never comes up). --Trovatore (talk) 22:49, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

It looks like you're right. Doing a little further research, I see that Alcoholic beverage#Alcohol and religion says that some sects of Hinduism are anti-alcohol. And the Gujarat article says that the sale of alcohol is banned there. The Indian state of Gujarat has 50 million people, of which 89% are Hindu. Red Act (talk) 04:02, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

i would guess a priori that there's a correlation between health-based vegetarianism and health-based aversion to alcohol as well as tobacco, caffeine, sugar, high fructose corn syrup, lactose, gluten, vaccines, and whatever other realistic or fringe fads ricochet through society. on another note, i would have guessed absolutism meant a dedication to Swedish vodka. Gzuckier (talk) 17:13, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

What religious basis would there be for vegetarianism? DRosenbach ^{(Talk | Contribs)} 13:59, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

Ernesto "Che Guevara" - a legend - a myth - or a fact?

OK - I have just been moved to tears by the movie, "Motorcycle Diaries" in which the pre-medical graduate Ernesto Guevara and his friend travelled around South America in 1952. I have also studied many references to Guevara, including Wikipedia. I have read books about his completion of his medical studies and his degree. But yet again, I have now learned this was a hoax. He may have begun a medical degree course at The University in Argentina, but there is no record of him having graduated from there as a medical doctor. So once again, at the age of 62, it seems I have been led up the garden path by emotional blackmail. Please help me here. Did he actually graduate as a doctor? And please.....no responses about whether that matters given his other "spurious and heroic achievements". Thanks. 92.23.23.50 (talk) 22:38, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

Our article on Che Guevara notes he attended medical school from 1948-1952 (with a year off for the noted Motorcycle Journey), but in 1953 could not find placement in an internship. See the section titled "Guatemala, Arbenz and United Fruit". Later, apparently, he worked as an allergist in a Mexico city hospital (See section titled "Mexico City and preparation") so he was at least for a time in 1954, a working physician. By 1955, he started out as a combat medic for the Cuban revolutionary forces, but quickly abandoned that track for military training, and he soon abandoned his medical career and took up a military leadership role. --Jayron32 00:20, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Thanks Jayron - but doesn't that result conflict with the following extract taken from the Che Guevara Wiki article viz. Upon returning to Argentina, he completed his studies and received his medical degree in June 1953, making him officially "Dr. Ernesto GuevaraItalic text? 92.22.19.48 (talk) 12:46, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

I presume -1952 was a typo as our article says he graduated in 1953. Otherwise Jayron's summation appears to be accurate Nil Einne (talk) 16:15, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Does Argentina follow the practice of English-speaking countries of referring to medical graduates as "doctor"? In any case, it's not "official", merely a custom. -- JackofOz (talk) 19:53, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

It's official in many places in that there are laws over who can and cannot call themselves a doctor. According to Doctor (title), it's largely a matter of convention in the UK and USA (although in the UK there are certain restrictions e.g. if you're offering medical services), but there are legal restrictions or requirements to use the title in other countries including Germany and Spain. There is however no mention of Latin America. --Lesleyhood (talk) 10:22, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

Shinnecock Indian Nation

I am trying to find out the status of my family with the Shinnecock Indian Nation could you please refer me to the correct person i can correspond with I have some documentation on my family background and being part of that tribe from Long Island,New York. I would like to go over these documents and be able to register with the International Bureau of Affairs. But i dont know how to go about doing that and theres other questions I have .Thank you for your time.66.243.202.141 (talk) 22:56, 18 October 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.23.23.50 (talk)

Try the tribe's website for starters. It even lists some cell phone numbers of individuals you can call. By the way, our Shinnecock Indian Nation article (which needs expansion) says the tribe is recognized by the state of New York, but the tribe's website implies that it isn't recognized by the federal government, so the Bureau of Indian Affairs may not care about your "registering" with them. Tempshill (talk) 02:49, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Snoop dogg

I have noticed that in most of his songs Snoop Dogg really just talks. I wonder if he actually has a good singing voice. Does anyone know of a song or recording that I can look up where he is actually singing?--98.240.70.102 (talk) 23:37, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

On several of his songs he sings, for example on the Dr. Dre song Nuthin' but a "G" Thang, Snoop definately imparts a melody when he sings the chorus "Ain't nothing but a G thang baby/two loked out g's going crazy/Death row is the label that pays me." --Jayron32 00:14, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

(This should be on the Entertainment Desk.) He "sings" a bit on The Chronic... Nuthin' but a G Thang; Deeez Nuuuts; Bitches Ain't Shit. It's nothing special. He's better as a straight rapper. --Mr.98 (talk) 01:44, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

October 19

What if WWII Did Not Occur?

I read somewhere, that when Hitler's Mom was pregnant with him, she wanted to get an abortion, but the doctor convinced her otherwise. While this may have prevented WWII from occurring hence, preventing the horrible events of the Holocaust, is there anything positive that WWII brought to the world or positively influenced some part of the world today? Acceptable (talk) 01:50, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

You may enjoy parts of our Alternate history article (search for "hitler" on the page; the "assassinate Hitler in the crib" plot is a popular 'bull session' topic). Sure, nuclear power is arguably a positive that came out of (or at least was greatly accelerated because of the events of) WW2. The jet engine and rocketry were invented and greatly accelerated, respectively. (I'm going to ignore the pre-WW2 claims in the jet engine article.) Tempshill (talk) 02:10, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

A few more: The United Nations was probably a positive. Computers were first invented (I'm brushing aside other claims) as codebreakers; see Cryptanalysis of the Enigma. A lot of Decolonization occurred after WW2. Some people think the Constitution of Japan forced upon Japan by the US is an improvement over their earlier legal system. Tempshill (talk) 02:42, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Hitler’s role in WWII was hugely Euro-centric. The war in Asia almost certainly would have occurred even if Hitler had never been born. Indeed, Japan invaded China in September 1931, some two years prior to Hitler becoming chancellor of Germany. Hence, to suggest certain inventions or arrangements depended on Hitler is a bit of a stretch. DOR (HK) (talk) 06:51, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Attributing the occurrence of the War in Europe solely or mainly to Hitler requires a tacit acceptance of the Great man theory. (Note that in this context "great" refers only to degree of influence, and does not necessarily signify any form of approval.) As you will see from reading through that article, this theory is now largely out of fashion: currently historians argue instead that such major events are brought about by impersonal factors of economics, demographics, etc, and that individuals effect only the details, so absent Hitler, WW2 in Europe might have started a little earlier or later and proceeded differently at minor levels, but would still have happened. 87.81.230.195 (talk) 11:21, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

If the conquering nations of WWI had treated Germany as nicely as we did following WWII, the "need" for a Hitler and a WWII might never have arisen, at least not in Europe. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 12:23, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

For a humorous take on the idea that does a fair job of fleshing out the difficulties, see Hitler's Time Travel Exemption Act. --Mr.98 (talk) 12:42, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Great quote from that page "It might be much easier and more efficient just to ... kill Bismarck ... or kill Metternich ... or kill Napoleon ... but everyone is just so short-sighted they want to kill Hitler. Stop it: all it's doing is making him feel smug!" -- 128.104.112.179 (talk) 14:10, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

That article is not really about the effects of getting rid of Hitler, it's about the science-fiction stories on that subject, stories which are in no way sensibly researched or argued. They don't constitute evidence that killing Hitler wouldn't help any more than they constitute evidence that computers will print "error, error" and explode when asked to calculate pi. The motivation for most of these stories isn't to explore the premise, it's simple sour grapes: we can't change the past, so let's try to feel better about ourselves by arguing that our sucky world is the best of all possible ones. The arguments still work when the time travel element is taken out. Millions of children suffer from malnutrition; should we try to help them? Well, the world is dangerously overpopulated as it is; maybe they had better die and decrease the surplus population. Besides, if we save them one of them might grow up to be the next Hitler. An asteroid is going to hit the earth; we could try to deflect it, but is that really a good idea? -- BenRG (talk) 15:28, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Well, I think you give the science fiction less than enough credit on thinking things through. They do about as reasonable a job as the counter-factual historians can. The moral isn't "our world is great", the moral is, "our world is unavoidably constituted out of the consequences of the past." --Mr.98 (talk) 21:19, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Or to put it another way, suppose I could go back and kill Hitler. This would presumably result in my never being born (and the same for anyone born after, at a conservative estimate, 1945 — actually I would expect the cutoff to be much earlier). Is that a sacrifice I'd be willing to make? And then who exactly would go back and kill Hitler? This is only a slight elaboration on the grandfather paradox. --Trovatore (talk) 22:02, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

"What if WWII did not occur?" seems to express uncertainty about whether it did. "What if WWI had not occurred?" would express uncertainty about what would have happened rather than about what did happen. Michael Hardy (talk) 14:14, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

...do we really need to be this pedantic about grammar? Is this really a useful contribution? --Mr.98 (talk) 21:19, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

No and no. --Tango (talk) 21:30, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

"Hitler didn't create the WWII era; the WWII era created Hitler." Duomillia (talk) 17:44, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

That makes no sense. Do the quotation marks mean that you have a WP:RS for that nonsense or just that you are trying to dissociate yourself from it while posting it? Cuddlyable3 (talk) 21:24, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

The era may not have created Hitler, but it made it possible for him to come to power. I second your question about the quotes, though (although it doesn't really matter who said it). --Tango (talk) 21:30, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

It may be just hollow rhetoric, but I guess it's true in the sense that without World War II (and the continental Holocaust it enabled), Hitler, while still having existed, would be merely one of dozens of brilliant but half-mad dictators and tyrants blessedly forgotten by history, and one of the less attractive ones at that. Semioticians and semanticists would make tiresome distinctions between Hitler and "Hitler". —— Shakescene (talk) 21:34, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

(ec) Hitler, and the Nazi government, was a product of the peculiar political and economic circumstances surrounding Germany and Europe generally in that period. An ineffective League of Nations, the unsustainable legacy of Versailles, an unbridled world economy which had barely survived the depression - all of these provided the breedingground for extremist politics. The National Socialists were around before Hitler came along; Fascism developed with little input from Hitler; even if all the extremist right-wing groups somehow died out without Hitler, Communism was immensely popular in many of the same states. Even if Hitler never existed, the same pressures would, probably, have pushed Europe towards war, with some other strong-jawed leader at the helm. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 21:37, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

I agree with PalaceGuard008 who succinctly describes the post WWI era. It is nonsense to call that "the WWII era" as in Duomillia's post because WWII had not begun. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 19:10, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

I think we can give Hitler credit (or blame) for his version of National Socialism, even though there were other similar names and ideas floating around, such as National Bolshevism, National Syndicalism and the Social Nationalism of the anti-Semitic Mayor of Vienna (Karl Schoenerer?). And certainly, Fascism's origins owe far more to Mussolini, to whom Hitler always gave credit. So there would have been fascism and even some form of national socialism without Hitler. But before Hitler (party member number 7), the future National Socialist German Workers' Party was simply the German Workers' Party of Anton Drexler.—— Shakescene (talk) 21:56, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

But Mussolini's fascism, though it embodied an obnoxious, liberticidal cult of the State, was hardly on the road to gas chambers, at least from anything I've ever heard about it. The transition from the Hoodlum State to the Assassin State required Hitler, personally. I don't buy the determinism-of-social-trends argument. The social pressures are there, but how they crystallize around a charismatic leader depends very much on that leader. --Trovatore (talk) 22:35, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Hitler couldn't have done it without lots of supporters. One of those supporters could easily have taken his place if he weren't there. While he was unusually good orator, I expect there were like-minded people that were good enough. --Tango (talk) 22:47, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

"Could have" is not the same as "would have". The great man theory may have been overdone, but the cultural determinists are also wrong. --Trovatore (talk) 22:55, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

There is also a lot of evidence that what Stalin had in mind for Europe was just about as bad as what Hitler did and that Hitler's invasion of the USSR, as unsuccesfull as it "seemed" to be, actually derailed Stalin's plans considerably. Vespine (talk) 22:31, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

I'm British and I despise and condemn the treatment of the Jewish race at the hands of the Nazi state. Having said that; I would like to play Devil's advocate. Why don't we talk, with similar hatered, about the mass bombing of German cities by the British, the fire bombing of Japanese citites by the Americans, and the two nuclear attacks on Hiroshima and Nagasaki by the Americans? (The development of the bomb being helped in no small measure by non-American allied scientists.) If we're from allied or axis nations then we should all feel thoroughly ashamed of the actions of our respective nations. ~~ Dr Dec (Talk) ~~ 22:59, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Getting this thread back on track, the question of "What if there was no Hitler?" is probably one of the most-discussed bits of alternate history there is. One famous piece on the subject is "No Hitler, No Holocaust," an article by Martin Himmelfarb in the March 1984 issue of Commentary magazine, the title of which sums up the argument. Whether WWII itself would have happened without Hitler is a separate question. To say that WWI inevitably led to WWII is to absolve the actors in the drama from responsibility. However, it is no doubt likely that the widespread belief in Germany of the unfairness of the Treaty of Versailles, the lack of desire to enforce the treaty among the Allies, all of the gripes among various nations caused by the changes to the maps after WWI and the fear of Russian Communism created a milleau in which peace was unlikely to last long in any event. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 23:08, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

". . . absolve the actors in the drama from responsibility." In most dramas, the responsibility lies with the playwright (historical contingency?), and the actors have little freedom of action, so this might not be the most appropriate metaphor. Perhaps something more along the lines of a jazz improvisation? 87.81.230.195 (talk) 00:06, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

From a logical point of view, it is totally impossible to predict what might have happened had Hitler not been born. Mathematics, and especially Chaos theory, tells us that small changes to initial conditions can lead to unimagined and unpredictable changes to a dynamical system in the long run. Removing such a high-profile figure as Hitler would lead to a massive change in initial conditions and ultimately unimagined and unpredictable changes to a dynamical system that is, in an informal sense, world order and world politics. ~~ Dr Dec (Talk) ~~ 23:19, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

We don't truly know if history/politics really is a dynamical system subject to Chaos theory, because we can never re-run events with variations to see if they actually do lead to macroscopic differences, or if "historical inertia" would, as some argue, return them to the trough of a "stable valley." If the unwinding of history was so amenable to calculation, we could anticipate the future consequences of present decisions much more readily and in theory avoid many unfortunate or disastrous outcomes (where are you, Hari Seldon?), although in practice even those future conditions that are somewhat amenable to mathematical calculation, such as changes in climate, are apt to provoke prevaricatory denial and obfustications serving short term interests. 87.81.230.195 (talk) 00:06, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

I don't think the analogies to math or chaos theory, while true, are accurate or appropriate; the unpredictability of human behavior trumps any card played. Call me cliché, but there's not a single damn thing in human history that could've been accurately predicted. That's why there's no point playing Monday-morning quarterback and (one of the reasons) why the Reference Desk doesn't speculate. Let's not forget that a fair portion of the world didn't know for the better part of a decade (depending on whether you were German, Polish, or American) what would have happened if Hitler was alive, and they actually had evidence to back up any decisions! ~ Amory (u • t • c) 02:29, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

What all of this is getting at is a larger historiographical debate about whether history is focused on the acts of individuals or whether it is about structuralist transformations. The reality is a bit of both. There are actually people who make their living predicting the apparently unpredictable (see this recent NY Times article), knowing a small number of initial conditions. These can only be applied forward, not backwards, of course. On the other hand, there are no doubt lots of wildcards out there as well, especially if we are talking about past historical events. The "reality" of it is no doubt something of a mix... Hitler, the man, could not have been what he was without the conditions for his existence; on the other hand, once he reached a certain level of prominence (e.g. post-Putsch), he was himself a powerful enough actor to affect future conditions as well, and extricating him from them is pretty much impossible. There is some discussion of these different views of history in Carr's famous What is History?. --Mr.98 (talk) 12:18, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Free contract bridge software for Windows Mobile

Greetings,

Might anyone be able to tell me if there exists free contract bridge software for Windows Mobile?

Thank you in advance,

148.60.182.135 (talk) 15:09, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

I searched on Google for '"contract bridge" "windows mobile" freeware' but could not find any. If you search on Google for '"windows mobile" freeware' then a lot of sites offering free software for Windiows Mobile come up. I suggest looking through these individual sites to see if any of them offer contract bridge. They certainly offer other card games. n.b. do not inclue the single quotes in your search string. 89.240.199.100 (talk) 20:06, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

Sock puppetry

What's the Wikipedia policy about logging out of one's account to edit under one's IP address? I've seen the special cases in the sock puppetry article, but they seem to talk about having multiple accounts. I guess it's a no-no, but can anyone direct me to the relevant policy pages, please? ~~ Dr Dec (Talk) ~~ 15:41, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

WP:Help Desk or WP:VPP is better for this sort of question. In general though, having two accounts or logging out to edit is mostly treated the same. If used inappropriately a definite no-no. However there are definitely cases when it's okay. Nil Einne (talk) 15:56, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Word of waning; no matter what the policies say, checkusers often simply ban everyone on a range without checking and thus cause a hell of a lot of collateral damage. And once banned by checkuser you can kiss goodbye to ever getting your account back because NO ONE will believe you are innocent once they see checkusers supposed "confirmed" tags on it —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.44.55.2 (talk) 23:09, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

To provide a (slightly less vitriolic) answer, as long as you play nice you'll be fine. Trouble starts brewing when you do things on the IP that you wouldn't normally do on your account. Since you obviously won't do that, there is rarely a reason to have to log out. People (usually sysops, as they have something to protect) do create alternate accounts for use on public terminals only. ~ Amory (u • t • c) 02:14, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Seconding that. A checkuser recently explained to me that, realistically, there's no way to "ban everyone on a range". In practice, suspicious activity gets investigated and, if confirmed by range matches, may result in blocks. In other words, suspicious activity is a necessary condition. (But with that said, it is the case that editing from an IP, and also from a logged-in account which is based at that IP, often ends up looking suspicious. So I wouldn't do it without a good reason.) —Steve Summit (talk) 02:59, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Checkusers DO have the ability to block every account on a rage. User:Alison has said this many times while taunting User:Grawp and his sockpuppets, and has displayed the ability to block hundreds of accounts on the same range in a single minute. When performing such an action there is the possibility of HUGE collateral damage of innocent accounts being caught in the mass block. I know this for a fact because I have been caught in these mass blocks several times —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.44.55.2 (talk) 13:33, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

For the record: I wasn't intending to edit under my IP address. Another user had expressed their intention to do so. I was trying to find policy to support my explicit objections. Thanks for all your comments. ~~ Dr Dec (Talk) ~~ 14:26, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

I have a very bad habit of forgetting when I am not logged into my account, and posting something as an IP. I usually try to fix it, but I'm sure it looks bad when I replace the IP timestamp with my timestamp. Falconus^{p t c} 14:55, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

You could just replace the IP link with ~~~ which just drops your name, and then leave the original timestamp alone. (~~~~~ drops just the timestamp, anyone's wondering.) —Akrabbim^talk 15:17, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Yes, I frequently use the "leave me logged in" function on my home computer. When that expires (as it does every 30 days) I oftan accidentally edit under my IP, and have to fix the signature. I think it's a pretty common blooper. --S.dedalus (talk) 22:18, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

If you always start from your watch list, you can't make that mistake. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 23:51, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Connect the following

Can anyone tell me exactly how the following are connected? Cape Cobras, Diamond Eagles, Otago Volts, Sussex Sharks, Somerset Sabres, and Wayamba..... Thanks in advance!117.194.231.176 (talk) 16:43, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Please do your own homework.

Welcome to the Wikipedia Reference Desk. Your question appears to be a homework question. I apologize if this is a misinterpretation, but it is our aim here not to do people's homework for them, but to merely aid them in doing it themselves. Letting someone else do your homework does not help you learn nearly as much as doing it yourself. Please attempt to solve the problem or answer the question yourself first. If you need help with a specific part of your homework, feel free to tell us where you are stuck and ask for help. If you need help grasping the concept of a problem, by all means let us know. Comet Tuttle (talk) 16:51, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

It's not a homework question, if you must know. I came across this question in an answer and win column in the paper yesterday, and I've already sent my response. I just wanted to cross check my answer here on Wikipedia. Besides, what sort of school would set a dumb question like this for homework?? 117.194.231.176 (talk) 16:56, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

It's not a homework question but extremely easy to answer with a search. Since I didn't have to search to answer though I'll be generous and suggest you look at 2009 Champions League Twenty20. P.S. If you already knew couldn't you just check yourself or at least give us your answer? Nil Einne (talk) 17:02, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Quite so! If it were such a "dumb question" then what would the need be to make a post asking for the answer? ~~ Dr Dec (Talk) ~~ 17:55, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

I think by dumb 117 meant academically pointless. —Akrabbim^talk 18:15, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Is there such a thing as pointless academic research? See Blue skies research ~~ Dr Dec (Talk) ~~ 18:35, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

The academy doesn't always think so, but I think most people would agree there is, especially when public funds are required to sustain it... --Mr.98 (talk) 21:20, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

It's interesting that you mention "most people". In my own day-to-day experiences most people are ignorant, under-educated, bigots. Maybe I need to move house. ~~ Dr Dec (Talk) ~~ 21:35, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Or at least lighten up. --Mr.98 (talk) 22:18, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

What is the prize? If you win what will you contribute to Wikipedia in gratitude? Cuddlyable3 (talk) 17:13, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

What I meant by "dumb" is that school students aren't going to score marks in any exam by knowing the answer to this question. My answer (the one I sent to the newspaper before coming to the Ref Desk) was that all of them were first-class cricket teams. The reason I got my answer wrong was that every time I did a Google search, I entered a single name, instead of the names of all the teams together, the result of which was reading their respective articles on Wikipedia, instead of coming to know how to they were related. And since I only had enough patience to read only the first three teams' articles, I saw the apparent connection -- that all of them were cricket teams. It was only later that I realised that I might've been mistaken. Everyone happy?? Oh, and the prize is supposed to be an audio CD... not much for a donation... haha... You ended up asking more questions than you answered... 117.194.227.89 (talk) 07:54, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Portland, Maine and suburbs

Does Portland, Maine have suburbs? Heegoop, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Yes. Why would you imagine a city with 62,000 residents, would not have suburbs? Portland, Maine#Neighborhoods has a list. Other places within the wider urban area that I would also consider Portland's suburbs, include South Portland, Falmouth and Westbrook, though these are actually separate cities Astronaut (talk) 23:33, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Also see Portland-South Portland-Biddeford metropolitan area. —Akrabbim^talk 23:34, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Astronaut appears to be applying a British English definition of suburb to an American city. Akrabbim's answer is the one an American would expect. Rmhermen (talk) 04:40, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Others[10][11][12] seem to share Astronaut's definition. Clarityfiend (talk) 05:15, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Rmhermen was referring to Astronaut's first & second sentence. Suburb in British English includes subdivisions which are officially part of the city. In American English, it's limited to separate governmental entities which are simply located nearby. While South Portland, Falmouth, and Westbrook are cities/towns which are not part of the City of Portland (and so are A.E. suburbs), those listed in Portland, Maine#Neighborhoods fall under the umbrella of Portland governance, and as such are not A.E. suburbs, (but are B.E. suburbs). -- 128.104.112.179 (talk) 14:23, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

I was aware there was a difference between American and British English, I just thought the American English definition was the other way around. And not knowing where the OP is from, that is why I emphasised the point about South Portland, Falmout and Westbrook being a separate cities. Astronaut (talk) 17:52, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

You might be interested to know that Australia uses both meanings. Brisbane is governed by a single city council with a budget larger than the state of Tasmania or some smallish countries; whereas, the government of the other state capitals is shared between many different councils. For example, the City of Sydney covers just the CBD and some surrounding areas. But in all cases, anywhere outside the CBD that's part of the conurbation known by the generic name ("Sydney", "Melbourne", etc) is considered a suburb. -- JackofOz (talk) 07:08, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

October 20

Surrogacy

When women use donor eggs or surrogate mothers to have children, who is the baby genetically related to; the woman carrying the baby or the woman the egg came from? Who does it look like? Is it related to both women? (Not requesting medical advice). --124.254.77.148 (talk) 05:37, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

It is only genetically related to the woman who provided the egg. The surrogate mother is basically only an incubator for the egg, and provides no actual genetic material for the child. --Jayron32 05:43, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

That being said, the mother carrying the child will still greatly affect the child if carried to term. The amount and type of nutrients, hormones, steroids, and other products (alcohol, nicotine, etc.) she ingests during gestation will greatly influence the child. And, if you believe Clive Barker, music. ~ Amory (u • t • c) 13:26, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

There is a technique called Spindle transfer that is currently being researched using monkeys, though it has not yet been legalised for or (so far as is known) applied to human subjects. It involves placing the nucleus of the donor egg into the de-nucleated egg of the surrogate mother, resulting in the egg with the Mitochondrial DNA of the surrogate and the Nuclear DNA of the donor. It would be of obvious value in cases where the donor carried a Mitochondrial disease. In such a case the baby would be genetically related to both women, though in different respects: we are not yet in a position to know how this would affect the baby's appearance. 87.81.230.195 (talk) 17:08, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Flushing water mains

There's a town near me that puts up little signs at busy intersections to notify the residents about the water mains being flushed soon. This is the only town that I've ever seen put up such signs. Is this a yearly thing that all water systems go through and other places just don't bother to inform the populace in such ways? Or does this town maybe have some water system that requires a flush every year? And finally, what's the point of flushing the water mains yearly? FYI, this is in the US state of Vermont. Dismas|^(talk) 05:44, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

The town I live in (Northern Illinois, USA) does the same sort of thing, though the signs read "Hydrant flushing". My understanding is that this is an effort to flush sediment from the pipes. here's a page that gives an official answer. –RHolton≡– 10:07, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

In one major US city, Washington DC if I recall correctly, officials neglected to do mains flushing for several years and a layer of slimy crud built up in the pipes. Edison (talk) 15:16, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

They might put up the signs due to liability issues. I actually just read a news article about a motorcycle rider who complained to the city about the several inches of water in the road which was put there by a mains flushing crew. Turns out that unless you're exceedingly careful, it's easy to hydroplane and lose control of a motorcycle in that level of water. If someone threatened legal action in the past, the city might have decided it's cheaper to put up the signs than to risk being held liable for causing an accident. -- 128.104.112.179 (talk) 20:12, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Compact Disks

how did compact discs create new business opportunites? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Christina hamby (talk • contribs) 13:38, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

What was before? Who bought them? What kinds of equipment (if any) were needed to go with them? What sales and manufacturing jobs were created? Think along those lines, and you will find the answers coming quickly.

You have a brain. So, exercise it. It will help you in life, and greater cognitive stimulation may even help avoid Alzheimer's Disease later, according to some sources (see article).209.244.187.155 (talk) 14:19, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

You might also like to think about what Compact Disks can do that vinyl records and tapes can't. DJ Clayworth (talk) 14:27, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

You know, as an aside, its very interesting that vinyl records were NOT used for computer programs and data storage. Hollerith cards and Punched tape were used for a long time, and it seems that vinyl records would have offered significant advantages in terms of durability and data bit density that paper storage didn't. I suppose the tradeoff is in flexibility in use; after all CDs really didn't take off in this realm until home CD burners became standard. --Jayron32 19:36, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Oh, yes they were! Floppy ROM#Floppy-ROM. Admittedly, acetate rather than vinyl, but the gramophone _was_ briefly used for data storage. Tevildo (talk) 22:11, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

The other factor is that Magnetic tape was also around since before computers so once paper was reaching its practical limits there was no reason not to skip the much older vinyl technology and go straight to magnetic tape. Vespine (talk) 22:25, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Punched tape, Hollerith cards, and CDs are all digital media. Vinyl records (like cassette tapes) are analog media. Analog media can be used for storing digital data (and both cassette tapes and vinyl were), but the result is essentially a recording of a modem session, with many of the same data-integrity problems. --Carnildo (talk) 23:02, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

There's no reason why a digital signal could not be stored on a vinyl record; for example using only two standard bit-heights in the grooves; after all magnetic tape is used in both digital and analog formats. --Jayron32 03:01, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

The data sent along with the Voyager craft had a kind-of record and a mechanical player that could be used play back the info, which contained a combination of sounds and photos. That was on metal, not vinyl. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 23:49, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

You could maybe do an email interview with one of the less modest people who worked on the the team who invented the first ever CD-ROM. If they had an email this user link on their Wikipedia user page and kinda indicated that they'd be happy to answer a few questions on the topic, that would be rather easy. ;-) SteveBaker (talk) 04:55, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

want a article on HOW MS -OFFICE USED IN BUSSINESS & INDUSTRY".

I want a article on HOW MS -OFFICE USED IN BUSSINESS & INDUSTRY". and also want a ppt on this tropic. Prasenjitghosh (talk) 13:43, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

So make them. This, however, is not the place to get others to do your work for you, whether homework or your job. ~ Amory (u • t • c) 14:05, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Microsoft Office is one of the most popular software packages ever produced, and is extremely widely used in all sections of industry. I suggest having a closer look at what Office does. That will explain how it's used in industry. For example MS-Word is good for writing documents. And as for preparing a Powerpoint, well what package are you going to use to prepare that? DJ Clayworth (talk) 14:09, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

London web cams

I've looked but all I can find are static images of london. Anyone know any "live" web cams where you actually see shit moving then just still images. thanks

I'm really hoping there are no cameras in places where you might see shit moving. DJ Clayworth (talk) 14:29, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

haha! sorry i meant to say "stuff" but it's a bad habit

I would think cameras which keep tracking of the flow of the sewer pipes would be something that municipalities would think worthwhile. 99.166.95.142 (talk) 15:59, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

I'm sure there are lots, but I don't have time to look right now. For starters, take a look at the external links at the bottom of the Abbey Road (street) article. You can watch people trying to get run over...--Shantavira|^{feed me} 16:02, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Here's one.Popcorn II (talk) 16:14, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

...and here's another!Popcorn II (talk) 16:19, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

...and another!Popcorn II (talk) 16:20, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

...Boom! There's another!Popcorn II (talk) 16:26, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Typing in 'London Webcam' on Wikipedia generally gets results sooner or later, but typing it in the search box on Google is so much faster, as I just did it here. Good luck sifting through the six-and-a-half million pages I got in that search! --KageTora - SPQW - (影虎) (talk) 16:38, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Thanks everyone, but i can't seem to view the cams, it says I need windows media player plugin but it's still not working even after I've installed it. anyway thanks for the help I'm sure I'll figure something out

Google Japan's Image

Is the image on Google Japan today an allusion to the recent news story about a boy in US disappearing for a while and his parents 'thought' he was inside a balloon? The caption on the image says 'Search for the Boy Young Detective' or something to that effect. Or is this a reference to something else? It doesn't appear on Google UK, so I would assume it must be something specifically related to Japan? Does anyone know? --KageTora - SPQW - (影虎) (talk) 16:31, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

It links to the Japanese Wikipedia article for Edogawa Rampo. What it means, I don't know. 99.166.95.142 (talk) 16:38, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Ah. October 21 is Rampo's birthday. 99.166.95.142 (talk) 16:39, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Aha! That would make sense! Cheers! --KageTora - SPQW - (影虎) (talk) 17:13, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

As you may have now realised, clicking on the Google doodle/logo when it's something out of the ordinary nearly always does a search. If it's a search in a language you don't understand (although I believe you do understand Japanese) it may be helpful to check out the search links. Wikipedia is a useful thing to check if its in the search results because there may be an interwiki to the English version, as there was for ja:江戸川乱歩. Also there would usually be some description (often with a year) in the search for the doodle, e.g. in this case http://www.google.co.jp/search?q=%E6%B1%9F%E6%88%B8%E5%B7%9D%E4%B9%B1%E6%AD%A9&ct=rampo09&oi=ddle it's "rampo09" i.e. rampo 2009 Nil Einne (talk) 18:47, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Thanks! I only just found out about that little 'trick' on Google. I wish I'd known it before, because there are some others which I am still a little bemused about - for example the bar code replacement for the Google logo a few weeks ago. Cheers! --KageTora - SPQW - (影虎) (talk) 19:58, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

The majority of the time it is an anniversary or a birthday. October 7th 1952 was the date when the patent was issued to the inventers of barcode.

If you study Engineering_management, are you more like an engineer or like a manager?

I always get the impression that the later is the case, but can you still get accepted at a professional engineer association? Quest09 (talk) 17:52, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

At my engineering school at Syracuse University, engineering management is either a minor or a post-graduate degree. This would mean that a student would supplement their engineering education with management skills, specifically tailored for the engineering industry. If someone majored in solely engineering management, then I suppose they would end up with a management degree that specialized in engineering project oversight. From what little I have seen of the industry (I will graduate in May 2010), the engineering managers all started with at least an engineering degree before becoming a manager or receiving management education. You would still have to pass the applicable certification exams to become a licensed engineer, but I don't know about merely joining a professional engineer association. It would probably vary depending on the association. For example, to join IEEE you would need to reach some sort of academic requirement, which you may or may not fulfill during your normal engineering management education. —Akrabbim^talk 18:56, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Where did the idea of suicide leads to hell originate from,it is a Catholic beliefe?

I just want to know where the Catholics belief in that suicide leads to hell originated.Where did it come from? It isnt in the bible.Christianson3373 (talk) 18:36, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Did you try reading Suicide particularly Suicide#Religious and Religious views of suicide? Nil Einne (talk) 18:42, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Did you think of looking in the Catholic Encyclopedia ? Cuddlyable3 (talk) 18:50, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

It is an interesting question. Especially considering the often referred stories of stoic nobles killing themselves in Republican and Imperial Rome, and how the ancient sources obviously stresses that this action only makes them even more philosophical and noble, sometimes reminding of the classic Japanese ethos. It is obvious, considering the modern view on suicide that this changed at some period, and it is also obvious that this must have something to do with the influence of Christianity, but when and how and how fast this change occurred is not so obvious. While the article in the Catholic Encyclopedia gives a good impression of the Catholic stance on suicide, it does not provide any sort of historiography on the changing view on suicide. The wiki articles Suicide#Religious and Religious views of suicide also fail to provide a history of the change from the pagan Roman view of suicide to the Christian view (although Christian views on suicide#Early Christianity does provide some more information about the early period, it is not explaining the change from paganism to Christianity per se). --Saddhiyama (talk) 19:02, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Apologies, I misread the question as being whether the belief that suicide leads to hell originated as a Catholic belief so linked to the two above articles rather then Christian views on suicide Nil Einne (talk) 19:18, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Who knows. The idea of hell is sort of a superstitious disincentive to do immoral things. There's no rhyme or reason to where it comes from, aside from a demented imagination. The suicide-as-sin thing is natural considering that it could well be construed as a failure of faith or courage. Vranak (talk) 20:07, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

It's a violation of "Thou shalt not kill", compounded with its finality, i.e. no time to ask forgiveness, maybe unless you're jumping from the Golden Gate. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 23:44, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Religion aside, suicide or attempted suicide has been historically illegal in many places, most notably the UK until 1961. FiggyBee (talk) 03:34, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

I suspect that it has something to do with the development of doctrine surrounding mortal sin -- given that suicide is a mortal sin by my reading of the criteria, and that dying with an unconfessed mortal sin on one's soul is a ticket to Hell, and that clearly suicide leaves no time after the commission of the sin for repentance, contrition, and absolution. I'm not sure, though, when the notion of mortal sin (which, it must be noted, isn't explicit in the Bible either) cropped up. I wish I had a reference to substantiate this theory. :-) Jwrosenzweig (talk) 07:02, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

Very little in Christianity originated in Christianity -- most of it is based somewhat on Judaism, from which it splintered. Suicide is frowned upon in Judaism as its performance undermines the understanding that life is a gift from God and it is not for the human to decide when life should end -- not that of one's friend (in the case of murder) and not that of one's self. There is a common misconception that Jews who commit suicide are may not be buried in Jewish cemetery. In fact, that is only if the suicide was in conjunction with some belief foreign to Jewish tradition, such as one committing suicide in parallel with avodah zara. Those who commit suicide as a result of genuine insanity or depression are granted burial within Jewish cemeteries. DRosenbach ^{(Talk | Contribs)} 03:04, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

Good points, DRosenbach, though the OP's question referred to Hell directly, a concept that is foreign (as I understand it) to traditional Jewish thought. Would Judaism associate suicide with punishment in the afterlife (and if so, where is the place of punishment? My sense was that Sheol is simply a word describing a sort of general underworld, without implying torment.)? It sounds like, from your descriptions, it is "frowned upon" or perhaps disgraceful, given the restrictions on burial, but I'm not sure I see how that translates to automatic condemnation in the afterlife. Jwrosenzweig (talk) 07:39, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

Fascinating ... Contributor DRosenbach (a) asserts that the Catholic dogma that suicide buys one eternal damnation comes from Jusaism, while (b) demonstrating that Judaism does not treat suicides as damned.

As with many tenets of various faiths, it is unclear when this particular one was determined to be part of the faith, and by whom. Clearly, there are no red-letter statements in any of the canonical gospels that can be pointed to as the source. B00P (talk) 07:45, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

Kayaking Escapade

I am currently a freshman in college, but I have always planned on going on a kayak trip from near my home (western NC) all the way to the Atlantic Ocean. I've been tossing about ideas for several weeks now, and I think that I should go ahead and do some preliminary planning in order to be better prepared and have a more solid, stable foundation for the trip when the time comes for more specific and heavy planning. So, in order to not overlook any resource--and since I respect the diversity and helpfulness of those on these boards--I am opening my case to the public. Feel free to make any suggestions whatsoever. Feel free to e-mail me at <e-mail removed>, or Skype message me at username: <removed>. You can also post here, but the subject will only be viewed for such a short time, so I have opened up my e-mail and Skype to prolong the flow of ideas.

It should be noted that the main goal of this trip is so I can keep a journal of my day to day experiences before, during, and immediately after the trip, in order to publish a book.

There is also potential that I will have a partner kayaking with me; please make suggestions under both categories, for that would effect packing and supply distributions (we would only need 1 tent, but a different tent than I would need if I'm to be by myself).

Here are some things I know I should consider; you are free to add, comment on those that need commenting, or suggest postponing something for later consideration:

-Funding: I hope to get local sponsorships or donations that will help. Most of the things that I will need, I will try to get donated, or at least discounted, by means of sponsorship or donations from people. -Kayak(s): A major part of the trip. I'll need a durable single-seat kayak with a spacious cargo area for all the supplies (tent, firemaking materials, food, water, etc. etc.). Cargo area needs to be waterproof, and the kayak needs to be able to fit my 6'7", 200 lb. frame comfortably; I'll be in it a while. (My partner is considerably smaller than I, and he would have no issues fitting in a "normal" kayak). -Camping supplies: I need to know what tent would be best suitable (since my camping options may be less than optimum, something diverse), what fire kits would be most efficacious. Everything also needs to be extremely packable; it will spend much time in the cargo area of the kayak(s). -Food/drink: It is obvious that packing enough supplies to last the whole journey will be impossible to do; I plan on making "checkpoints" in order to restock food and other supplies occasionally along my journey. However, I plan on being slightly self sustaining (boiling river water to drink, catching fish to cook, etc.). -River Maps/Topography: I DEFINITELY need these things, as it would be less than satisfactory if I were to kayak to the brink of a 50 ft. waterfall and not be able to go back against the current. I also need to be able to plan ahead which rivers to take, so any river suggestions would be very nice. (My planned starting point is somewhere close to the Kerr Scott Dam near Wilkesboro, North Carolina; I will start below the dam and begin down the Yadkin river as the first leg of my journey if at all possible.) -GPS: I will need a GPS, preferably waterproof, in order to locate myself, relevant rivers, landmarks, towns, as well as be able to inform people of my postion in case of supply restocking or emergency. -Cell Phone: I don't want to text/call people on the trip. However, to inform people of where I am will be necessary for supply restock or emergency. Waterproof would be preferable. -Clothing: I'm not sure what type of clothing would be most suitable for a long-term kayaking journey. Normally I've only kayaked for at most 6 hours at a time, and went without a shirt and wore swimming trunks and was barefoot. However I now have Vibram FiveFingers which I find extremely suitable for amphibious wear. -Weather device: some sort of weather forecast radio or something, in order to avoid getting flooded to oblivion. -A journal-keeping device: I've heard I can get a waterproof laptop, such as a toughbook or something. It just needs to be able to word process, though I'm toying with the idea of keeping a blog as well, so possibly an internet USB or something.

Feel free to add anything. I want to be totally prepared! Hubydane (talk) 00:44, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

I've deleted your e-mail address - see the rules at the top of this page. I'm sure a more useful answer will be posted before long. Tevildo (talk) 22:23, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Sounds like quite an adventure. My suggestions- scout whatever route you choose as much as possible. Don't rely on a map to show you rapids, gravel bars, waterfalls, dams, sluiceways, dragons, psychotic hillbillys etc. Ask the locals for advice, and look for a whitewater/paddling club. They already know how to do it. I also recommend stocking up on old army ammunition containers. They are watertight, float, and there is very little you can do to break them. Just about every surplus store will have them and I see them at flea markets from time to time. 161.222.160.8 (talk) 22:55, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Check on the old ammunition containers, I already have several of them. However, I will scout as little as possible without sacrificing safety. I'll most likely only check for access points for potential supply restock, and to make sure no hidden dams, potential hazards occur. Rapids, however, are welcome. I think the unknown aspect will only add; I will, as I said, however, not sacrifice safety. Hubydane (talk) 00:44, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

There is a 165-mile canoe trail on the Yadkin[13] but it has several hydrodams. You can see others reports here. Your best bet is to find an outfitter to take you on a multi-day trip so you can familiarize yourself with water filters[14], waterproof duffles and sacks[15], portable stoves, etc that you will need will canoe camping. Rmhermen (talk) 01:17, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

Alright! That canoe camping trail solves any trespassing issues in North Carolina. Now if I can find something similar along the Pee-Dee, I'm almost there! The hydrodams shouldn't be too much of a hassle, though, since it is along the trail stretch and there will surely be easy ways for canoe/kayak users to navigate these (of course, these will be part of the scouting, though). I'm not much of a fan of the water purifiers and portable stoves, though. I'm trying to stay as low-tech as possible (excluding the cell phone, laptop, and GPS; those won't be helping me eat or drink, but there for precautionary or literary purposes only). I'm sure I can boil water in a pot and cook (or at least heat) any food that I want to cook. Rain is the obvious variable here, but that's what nabs and plastic bottles are for. Thanks for the ideas, though. Keep it up!24.181.202.2 (talk) 02:31, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

If you are camping, how do you intend recharging the GPS, cell phone & laptop? It might be better to keep a journal in a paper notebook (kept wrapped in plastic and in one of the ammo tins), then write it up online once the trip is finished. Of course, with outside support it might be easier to stay connected to the 21st century. Astronaut (talk) 14:44, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

It sounds like you have a pretty solid grip on your needs and concerns for what promises to be an interesting trip. I would recommend some type of self-defense item, (knife, pepper spray, bow and arrow, etc)For what it is worth, I'll probably be buying the book! 10draftsdeep (talk) 17:26, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

When I'm hiking, my self-defence equipment is a hiking stick: the most common hazard is dogs. You don't want to get within knife-range of them, and you can't tell they're dangerous at bow range. --Carnildo (talk) 23:30, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

A/V receivers: 7.1 vs 5.1 surround sound

My home theater is currently a 5.1 surround sound system. My A/V receiver is going bad and I need to buy a new one. A lot of the new receivers out today seems to support 7.1 but I have no interest in buying two extra speakers. What I'm trying to figure out is if 7.1 receivers support a 5.1 speaker configuration. Just to be clear, I know I can hook-up my 5.1 speaker system and leave 2 channels unfilled. What I want is the receiver to output 5.1 (and not 7.1 audio) and have each channel outputted to the correct speakers. A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 22:54, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

October 21

history of kit car EVOLUTION V8 KITCAR

wondreing if anybody knows anything about these kit cars? they look good, am interested in buying one, but cannot seem to find any information on them. any help gratefully appreciated —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.183.140.50 (talk) 00:32, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

Are you thinking of this: GKD Evolution ? Having to start with a BMW 3-series makes this an expensive car by the standards of most kit-cars! But it looks nice - and a 1600lb car with a 6 cylinder BMW 3-series engine under the hood should be pretty amazingly fast. SteveBaker (talk) 04:43, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

Tincture of labels in heraldry

Is there any particular rule about what tincture a label should be? In particular, is there any truth to the story that labels argent are a royal privilege? Marnanel (talk) 02:44, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

You may want to post this at the Humanities reference desk if you haven't done so already. --71.111.194.50 (talk) 08:20, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

Clock Question

[edit] Clock Question To whom it may concern:

Back in 1993 I was given a hand made clock with two cards (A and J)on the left, in the middle is the clock (with the back ground a 12 noon heart, 3 o'clock club, 6 o'clock diamond & a 9 o'clock spand symbols), and the top right side is a red chip with a very large 'B' and around the B is the words; ROULETTE, top and bottom. On the bottom of the right side ia a red book of matches that reads: HOLIDAY CASINO, ON THE STRIP, BETWEEN SANDS & FLAMINGO HOTELS, address is as follows: 3473 LAS VEGAS BLVD, SOUTH LAS VEGAS, NEVADA 89109 (all lettering is in white caps). The frame is AROUND: 2" wide (all around), with a clear glass front.

I have looked all over the internet to see if I could find any item and or casino that even came close to this hanging item, I did come very close to finding a casino on the strip in Las Vegas, which made me fill pretty good. I also found a little info that Holiday Inn bought the Holidy Casino out around the early 70's.

Could you please help me find out some info on this item. I thought that maybe a collector or someone would be insterested in buying it.

I just want to say thank you for your help either way.

email redacted—Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.16.134.33 (talk) 09:27, 19 October 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.16.134.33 (talk)

The casino in question is Harrah's Las Vegas. I found a couple of clocks with similar accoutrements on ebay, craigslist etc, they seem to sell (or at least, be offered) for around $5-10. [16] FiggyBee (talk) 03:27, 21 October 2009 (UTC) how strange that both ebay and craigslist have disambig hats to weird al songs

How to promote oneself as a writer without resorting to spamming

How does one promote himself as a fiction writer without resorting to spamming or any other dishonorable procedure?

Obviously even if you are a Charles Dickens in the making, you won't be able to share your talent to the world without someone noticing your potential, right?

• I assume that wikipedia, though a noble cause and a good place to practice writing, is not a good way to promote yourself since somebody else will edit your entry sooner or later.
• I also assume that joining story writing contests are also good ways of promoting yourself but only a few are held in the Philippines annually.

--202.92.128.27 (talk) 08:02, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

From what I understand, one of the first things that new novelists should do is to talk to a literary agent. They can assist you in finding a publisher for your work. As far as using Wikipedia as a practice grounds, that's probably not the best idea for a fiction writer since fiction and encyclopedia entries are not (or at least shouldn't be) written in the same style. Dismas|^(talk) 08:24, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

If you're saying you could create a Wikipedia article on yourself as a way of promoting yourself - that's not on. You must first of all be notable to qualify for an article; and even then, you can't create or edit your own article as this is a conflict of interests. The best you could do would be to contribute to the talk page of such an article. But, as I say, you have to be notable in the first place, before an article on you would be permitted. -- JackofOz (talk) 08:44, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

Huh? He specifically discounted the idea of writing an article about himself in his first bullet point. --Richardrj ^{talk email} 09:28, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

I didn't read it that way, Richard. To me, he was saying that it may be OK in principle to do that, but he wouldn't do it because other editors would eventually change his words about himself, and he wouldn't want that. Whereas, I'm arguing it's not even OK in principle to create your own article. -- JackofOz (talk) 10:25, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

AFAIK, it's not that users aren't allowed to edit articles about themselves, it's just scrutinized more when they do it. It's hard for people to be objective about an article about themselves but not impossible (e.g. Cory Doctorow). Dismas|^(talk) 09:18, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

Are you published or unpublished? If unpublished then submitting stories to competitions is one way, but you could try and find magazines that publish stories. And approach a range of magazines, newspapers, etc to get other work there maybe reviewing or writing other stuff - a local, student, or special-interest publication may be eager for staff, and many people go from journalism to writing fiction. I don't know what language you write in, but you could try sending your work abroad if that's appropriate. Also consider joining a writers group or creative writing class, which will enable you to meet people and get info on places to publish. You could also try writing a blog, which may attract interest in you and the topics you write about and allow you to practice writing. Unless you're published and have been reviewed in major publications or given some award, it's against Wikipedia policy for anyone to create a Wikipedia entry about that writer (see Wikipedia:Notability). --Lesleyhood (talk) 10:33, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

thanks for the tips. By the way, I can write in both Filipino and English though I prefer the latter as it is more flexible and understood by more people. As I said, I was against spamming and having your self-created biography article in wikipedia carried by wikimirrors is an unfair mode of self-promotion. (different IP) --122.52.38.3 (talk) 12:19, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

I have a great book called Writers' & Artists' Yearbook 2009. It is filled with information about how to get published, but it is very UK-centric. Perhaps there is a similar book published in your locality. Astronaut (talk) 14:22, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

how to remove white areas on leather

I recently purchased a second hand sandal on ebay since it is a branded item. It has white areas which I don't know what they are but the make the sandal look very bad - please have a look at http://i.imagehost.org/0295/leather.jpg . I don't think it is fungus since the area has not expanded in the following days after the purchase. Could you please say how to remove them?. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.220.46.26 (talk) 09:02, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

I think the marks are caused by water (or perhaps salt from seawater or sweat) - not uncommon in wetter climates. There are plenty of remedies if you do a search. Astronaut (talk) 14:13, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

Black Shoe polish. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 21:25, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

Tap water applied with a cloth can remove these marks as they are made by common salt (either from sweat or seawater).

BTW, what are you going to do with only one sandal-- walk with a limp? —Preceding unsigned comment added by BlueTurret (talk • contribs) 23:22, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

BlueTurret, would you have said that to someone with only one leg? DOR (HK) (talk) 06:23, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

what's a hand sandal?Gzuckier (talk) 07:24, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

thanks for your inputs white areas seem to have largely disappeared and i just have to wait for it to dry and remove remaining white areas should they exist. My english is not very good and i should have typed a pair of sandals instead of a sandal.

Countries That Don't Use Postage Stamps

Are there any countries that used to use postage stamps (either their own issued ones or ones issued by another country) but which have now abandoned the practice altogether? By 'postage stamps' I mean the ones that you either lick or glue to the envelope by some other means, and not rubber stamps or pre-printed envelopes (which is what I mean by 'abandoned the practise altogether). --KageTora - SPQW - (影虎) (talk) 12:45, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

Don't know of any like that, but you might like Postal services in Andorra which is the exact opposite, they have two different postal services! Dmcq (talk) 17:39, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

Well, that article also says that postal delivery within Andorra is free, so at least for internal mail they actually don't use postage stamps. But they do for mail to other countries. --Anon, 05:14 UTC, October 22, 2009.

cities with low elevation

I am looking for a list of cities that are below sea level, such as New Orleans. Anyone know of one? Googlemeister (talk) 19:56, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

I think in the states the only places possible are New Orleans and maybe some little town in Death Valley (California), since those are the only two states with lowest points being below sea level (see List of U.S. states by elevation). TastyCakes (talk) 20:04, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

(ec) You're going to have to turn in your user name :-P List of places on land with elevations below sea level. --LarryMac | Talk 20:08, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

The Netherlands article says that 27% of its land and 60% of its population is below sea level. It references this site. TastyCakes (talk) 20:09, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

Sexoholic

Hi,

This question may seem to be a joke but it isn't. I've got a male roommate who is only 18. He is more or less handsome and he already has a sexual life much more rich than any average man at the end of his life. He moved with us for his job and after only 6 months, he slept with more than 5 colleagues, some of them easy, some of them really serious. He also told us that he never spent a month without having sex and had really weird experiences like sleeping with some 40-year-old women or with a daughter first and her mother then. I really don't understand how this guy manage to have so many girls (this is my first question). The second question is: is this guy "normal" or has he some psychological problems leading to a over normal sexual life? All the normal men I know spend months without relationships and sex and this very young guy show us that having sex is as easy as to go for a drink. How is it possible? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.210.30.250 (talk) 20:16, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

May I suggest directing your query to Girls Ask Guys [17], a more appropriate forum for enquiries of this nature. Vranak (talk) 20:31, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

That's extremely unhelpful, and why the hell are you directing him to another forum when he asked here —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.44.55.2 (talk) 21:02, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

Incredibly bad faith! I know from experience that he likely won't get a very good answer here, so I pointed him elsewhere, which is in fact a more appropriate forum for this kind of question. Vranak (talk) 21:55, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

This is a reference desk, we find references for people. We don't generally answer "Is this normal?" type questions. --Tango (talk) 21:29, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

Hmm, I smell something bovine my friend!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.4.186.107 (talk) 20:52, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

"How is it possible"? Human nature and a little charisma. Is he normal? Five girls in six months isn't a lot. There are many people out there who consider a week wasted if it hasn't involved at least two different girls (quick maths: 48 in 6 months). Has he had psychological problems? No way of knowing; ask him. Vimescarrot (talk) 21:19, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

There is no 'normal'. Plus he could be telling the odd lie here and there. People's sexual conquests are closely linked to their self esteem and how they think they are viewed by others. It's very common for young men to brag about sex with girls that didn't actually happen. He could easily be telling the truth though, some people do have quite a bit of sex. It's not that strange.Popcorn II (talk) 21:32, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

I read somewhjere that the number of such relations per person in a study, in Sweden I think it was, followed a power law. It's like the number of visitors to a web site. So a small number of people have a very large number of encounters indeed. Dmcq (talk) 22:06, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

Googled a document that goes on about this sort of thing [18]. Not what I was thinking of but it has lots of references. Dmcq (talk) 22:14, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

Sex != relationship. If you're trying to have sex it's not all that hard to find men or women who are looking for the same. If you're trying for a relationship, it's not that hard to find people either. It's trying for both at the same time, or confusing the two, that creates hardships for people. As with all things in life, you tend to find what you are looking for. ~ Amory (u • t • c) 22:21, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

Maybe he speaks in tongues. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 23:41, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

To put it in perspective I have had and still have a very unique and interesting personal sex life and I turned out socially acceptable and healthy. Full time job, no criminal record, financially stable. And Ive done things more extreme then anything posted here, with numerous people and party(s) and ages (with consent and legal of course). I think the individual is just experiencing life. As long as the parties involved are comfortable with the situation and it is legal then have at it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ivtv (talk • contribs) 00:22, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

I would suggest that the first question to ask yourself about this guy is: "Is this true? How do I know that?"...exaggerating about such things is hardly unknown! SteveBaker (talk) 00:45, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

What does the name aidan mean?

What does the name Aidan mean? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gingerman12345 (talk • contribs) 20:39, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

See:Aidan--Fribbler (talk) 20:41, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

October 22

Indigestible Dextrins

Does anybody know what indigestible dextrins are exactly (I think it is some sort of food additive)? And is so, could you provide examples? Also, is it unhealthy or have bad side effects? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.141.255.42 (talk) 03:05, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

Dextrin's are, as described by our article, "low-molecular-weight carbohydrates produced by the hydrolysis of starch." An indigestible dextrin would be one that cannot be digested. Our article contains a description of several food-based uses of dextrins. --Jayron32 03:33, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

Opening joke

I have been told to find a joke for my boss who will subsequently give a power point presentation. His idea is that since he has been preceded by many speakers, it would be better if he opens his speech with a joke so as to lighten the atmosphere as well as break the monotony !I have searched the Net. I could'nt find an appropriate one!His speech would be the annual report of my organization!Can anyone help me? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.93.243.233 (talk) 03:23, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

Here's one of my favorite clean jokes of all time:

Jesus and Tiger Woods are playing golf. Moses, of course, is caddying for Jesus, and the party comes up to a tricky hole with a water hazard. Tiger pulls out his driver, crushes the ball over the water, and lands just short of the green. Moses says to Jesus "I'd lay up, hit maybe a 3 iron, and take it over the lake on the next shot." "Forget that" Jesus replies "Hand me my driver. If Tiger Woods can drive that lake, so can I. I'm Jesus, after all". The Lord takes a swing. Ploop. In the Lake. Jesus looks disgusted. "Moses, get that ball". Moses walks to the water, parts it, walks in, gets the ball, and drops it back in front of Jesus. By now, a crowd is gathering. Moses pulls out the 3-iron, and Jesus says "Put that thing away. I told you, If Tiger Woods hits driver over that lake, I will hit a driver over that lake." Swing, ploop. "I ain't getting that thing this time" says Moses "You get it yourself." So Jesus walks over through the crowd of onlookers, walks on the water, and bends over to pick up the ball. One of the spectators leans in to Moses and says "Who does that guy think he is, Jesus Christ?!?" "Nah" Moses replied "He thinks he's Tiger Woods."

--Jayron32 03:45, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

It might be "clean" in the sense of not being based on sex or toilet humour, but there is a risk of offending some Christians with blasphemy. Mitch Ames (talk) 06:06, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

Since you found the wealth of jokes (or would-be jokes) available on the Internet to be unsuitable to your boss's purpose, perhaps you could tell us a little more about the setting, audience, import and style of the organization's annual report. I don't want you to expose yourself, your boss or your group, but there are differences between a gaming industry convention, a police conference and an alliance of religious hospice volunteers. Will most of the audience be from one country or one culture, or are you seeking something that would appeal to a wide range of listeners? —— Shakescene (talk) 06:01, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

Dilbert for May 8, 2008, might be a good one to put on the powerpoint and let everyone read. Dilbert is giving a presentation. He says, "I didn't have any accurate numbers, so I just made up this one... Studies have shown that accurate numbers aren't any more useful than the ones you make up." An unseen audience member (apparently the PHB) asks, "How many studies showed that?" Dilbert: "Eighty-seven". ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 06:12, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

An old cross-cultural one from Asia that might not have reached your audience: “In America, it is common to open a speech with a joke, but in Japan, one begins by apologizing. So, in the interest of cultural diversity and inclusiveness, I’ll just apologize for not having a joke to tell.” DOR (HK) (talk) 06:34, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

Why do bagpipe players traditionally march while playing? They're trying to get away from the terrible noise.

Why are violin players like police? Everybody's relieved when the case is closed.

What's the difference between a saxophone and a chain saw? Vibrato.

What's the scariest thing jungle drums can warn is coming? A bass solo.

What do you call somebody who hangs around with musicians but can't play an instrument? A drummer.

i'm in a musical mood i guessGzuckier (talk) 07:22, 22 October 2009 (UTC)