Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement

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See also: Logged AE sanctions

Important information

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Please use this page only to:

request administrative action against editors violating a remedy (not merely a principle) or an injunction in an Arbitration Committee decision, or a contentious topic restriction imposed by an administrator,
request contentious topic restrictions against previously alerted editors who engage in misconduct in a topic area designated as a contentious topic,
request page restrictions (e.g. revert restrictions) on pages that are being disrupted in topic areas designated as contentious topics, or
appeal arbitration enforcement actions (including contentious topic restrictions) to uninvolved administrators.

For all other problems, including content disagreements or the enforcement of community-imposed sanctions, please use the other fora described in the dispute resolution process. To appeal Arbitration Committee decisions, please use the clarification and amendment noticeboard.

Only autoconfirmed users may file enforcement requests here; requests filed by IPs or accounts less than four days old or with less than 10 edits will be removed. All users are welcome to comment on requests except where doing so would violate an active restriction (such as an extended-confirmed restriction). If you make an enforcement request or comment on a request, your own conduct may be examined as well, and you may be sanctioned for it. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. (Word Count Tool) Statements must be made in separate sections. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as personal attacks, or groundless or vexatious complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions.

To make an enforcement request, click on the link above this box and supply all required information. Incomplete requests may be ignored. Requests reporting diffs older than one week may be declined as stale. To appeal a contentious topic restriction or other enforcement decision, please create a new section and use the template {{Arbitration enforcement appeal}}.

Appeals and administrator modifications of contentious topics restrictions

The Arbitration Committee procedures relating to modifications of contentious topic restrictions state the following:

All contentious topic restrictions (and logged warnings) may be appealed. Only the restricted editor may appeal an editor restriction. Any editor may appeal a page restriction.

The appeal process has three possible stages. An editor appealing a restriction may:

ask the administrator who first made the contentious topic restrictions (the "enforcing administrator") to reconsider their original decision;
request review at the arbitration enforcement noticeboard ("AE") or at the administrators' noticeboard ("AN"); and
submit a request for amendment ("ARCA"). If the editor is blocked, the appeal may be made by email.

Appeals submitted at AE or AN must be submitted using the applicable template.

A rough consensus of administrators at AE or editors at AN may specify a period of up to one year during which no appeals (other than an appeal to ARCA) may be submitted.

Changing or revoking a contentious topic restriction

An administrator may only modify or revoke a contentious topic restriction if a formal appeal is successful or if one of the following exceptions applies:

The administrator who originally imposed the contentious topic restriction (the "enforcing administrator") affirmatively consents to the change,^[a] or is no longer an administrator;^[b] or
The contentious topic restriction was imposed (or last renewed) more than a year ago and:
- the restriction was imposed by a single administrator, or
- the restriction was an indefinite block.

A formal appeal is successful only if one of the following agrees with revoking or changing the contentious topic restriction:

a clear consensus of uninvolved administrators at AE,
a clear consensus of uninvolved editors at AN,
a majority of the Arbitration Committee, acting through a motion at ARCA.

Any administrator who revokes or changes a contentious topic restriction out of process (i.e. without the above conditions being met) may, at the discretion of the Arbitration Committee, be desysopped.

Standard of review
On community review

Uninvolved administrators at the arbitration enforcement noticeboard ("AE") and uninvolved editors at the administrators' noticeboard ("AN") should revoke or modify a contentious topic restriction on appeal if:

the action was inconsistent with the contentious topics procedure or applicable policy (i.e. the action was out of process),
the action was not reasonably necessary to prevent damage or disruption when first imposed, or
the action is no longer reasonably necessary to prevent damage or disruption.

On Arbitration Committee review

Arbitrators hearing an appeal at a request for amendment ("ARCA") will generally overturn a contentious topic restriction only if:

the action was inconsistent with the contentious topics procedure or applicable policy (i.e. the action was out of process),
the action represents an unreasonable exercise of administrative enforcement discretion, or
compelling circumstances warrant the full Committee's action.

^ The administrator may indicate consent at any time before, during, or after imposition of the restriction.
^ This criterion does not apply if the original action was imposed as a result of rough consensus at the arbitration enforcement noticeboard, as there would be no single enforcing administrator.

Appeals and administrator modifications of non-contentious topics sanctions

The Arbitration Committee procedures relating to modifications and appeals state:

Appeals by sanctioned editors

Appeals may be made only by the editor under sanction and only for a currently active sanction. Requests for modification of page restrictions may be made by any editor. The process has three possible stages (see "Important notes" below). The editor may:

ask the enforcing administrator to reconsider their original decision;
request review at the arbitration enforcement noticeboard ("AE") or at the administrators’ noticeboard ("AN"); and
submit a request for amendment at the amendment requests page ("ARCA"). If the editor is blocked, the appeal may be made by email through Special:EmailUser/Arbitration Committee (or, if email access is revoked, to arbcom-enwikimedia.org).

Modifications by administrators

No administrator may modify or remove a sanction placed by another administrator without:

the explicit prior affirmative consent of the enforcing administrator; or
prior affirmative agreement for the modification at (a) AE or (b) AN or (c) ARCA (see "Important notes" below).

Administrators modifying sanctions out of process may at the discretion of the committee be desysopped.

Nothing in this section prevents an administrator from replacing an existing sanction issued by another administrator with a new sanction if fresh misconduct has taken place after the existing sanction was applied.

Administrators are free to modify sanctions placed by former administrators – that is, editors who do not have the administrator permission enabled (due to a temporary or permanent relinquishment or desysop) – without regard to the requirements of this section. If an administrator modifies a sanction placed by a former administrator, the administrator who made the modification becomes the "enforcing administrator". If a former administrator regains the tools, the provisions of this section again apply to their unmodified enforcement actions.

Important notes:

For a request to succeed, either

(i) the clear and substantial consensus of (a) uninvolved administrators at AE or (b) uninvolved editors at AN or

(ii) a passing motion of arbitrators at ARCA

is required. If consensus at AE or AN is unclear, the status quo prevails.

While asking the enforcing administrator and seeking reviews at AN or AE are not mandatory prior to seeking a decision from the committee, once the committee has reviewed a request, further substantive review at any forum is barred. The sole exception is editors under an active sanction who may still request an easing or removal of the sanction on the grounds that said sanction is no longer needed, but such requests may only be made once every six months, or whatever longer period the committee may specify.
These provisions apply only to contentious topic restrictions placed by administrators and to blocks placed by administrators to enforce arbitration case decisions. They do not apply to sanctions directly authorized by the committee, and enacted either by arbitrators or by arbitration clerks, or to special functionary blocks of whatever nature.
All actions designated as arbitration enforcement actions, including those alleged to be out of process or against existing policy, must first be appealed following arbitration enforcement procedures to establish if such enforcement is inappropriate before the action may be reversed or formally discussed at another venue.

Information for administrators processing requests

Thank you for participating in this area. AE works best if there are a variety of admins bringing their expertise to each case. There is no expectation to comment on every case, and the Arbitration Committee (ArbCom) thanks all admins for whatever time they can give.

A couple of reminders:

Before commenting, please familiarise yourself with the referenced ArbCom case. Please also read all the evidence (including diffs) presented in the AE request.
When a request widens to include editors beyond the initial request, these editors must be notified and the notifications recorded in the same way as for the initial editor against whom sanctions were requested. Where some part of the outcome is clear, a partial close may be implemented and noted as "Result concerning X".
Enforcement measures in arbitration cases should be construed liberally to protect Wikipedia and keep it running efficiently. Some of the behaviour described in an enforcement request might not be restricted by ArbCom. However, it may violate other Wikipedia policies and guidelines; you may use administrative discretion to resolve it.
More than one side in a dispute may have ArbCom conduct rulings applicable to them. Please ensure these are investigated.

Closing a thread:

Once an issue is resolved, enclose it between {{hat}} and {{hab}} tags. A bot should archive it in 7 days.
Please consider referring the case to ARCA if the outcome is a recommendation to do so or the issue regards administrator conduct.
You can use the templates {{uw-aeblock}} (for blocks) or {{AE sanction}} (for other contentious topic restrictions) to give notice of sanctions on user talk pages.
Please log sanctions in the Arbitration enforcement log.

Thanks again for helping. If you have any questions, please post on the talk page.

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Doncram

Doncram is warned not to approach discussions confrontatively, not to exhibit signs of ownership, not to comment on contributors rather than content, and not to assume bad faith. The editors who are in disputes with Doncram are reminded that these expectations apply to them also. Sandstein 07:54, 4 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning Doncram

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: Nyttend (talk) 15:34, 30 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

User against whom enforcement is requested: Doncram (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Sanction or remedy to be enforced: Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Doncram#General editor probation

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

Entire discussion here as of right now, where he says to an IP user in dispute "to me you seem somewhat like a series of previous editors who have arrived and taken interest in dab pages". One of many allegations without evidence; the same page accuses me of being the same person, although we're nowhere near to each other geographically
Yesterday, with edit summary "seriously, do you care about accuracy?"
Entire discussion here as of right now, when he's obstructing a process out of misunderstanding something that's easily understood with a few minutes of reading

Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)

Warned on 25 March by me; note that he replied to the thread, so he's obviously aware of it

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

diff

Discussion concerning Doncram

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by Doncram

I've received notice of this discussion of edits on a disambiguation page and see what has been said. I'll just say: I have reason to be a bit "paranoid", if that means thinking that people are following and might be pushing/testing in order to raise contention, such as by opening an Administrative Enforcement proceeding. And, as I said at the linked page, i am honestly puzzled by how to deal with an anonymous editor who started by restoring what I considered a bad edit, and seems to be possibly very experienced in Wikipedia. And, that editor was "weirded out" by the odd behavior of other editors there, too, not just by my questions. Seems resolved by the editor being weirded out and dropping the possibility of discussing disambiguation policy and practice more thoroughly, which i offered to do.

I am open to having a big discussion in an RFC, about disambiguation policy and practices regarding place lists that include NRHP-listed places, and I urge participants here to consider if that would be useful. I don't think that revisiting disambiguation page policies is a great use of many editors time, but I would prefer to engage in that rather have a bunch of separate scattered discussions.

My comment is later than, and I have read all comments through, Sandstein's 3rd comment at 10:14, 31 March 2013 and the later comment by The Devil's Advocate at 17:25, and I will consider all that has been said here. Thanks. --do ncr am 21:17, 31 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Orlady

I'm disappointed to see the talk-page exchange (now grown much longer: [1]) flagged by Nyttend. Doncram's statements are an example of the kind of behavior toward other contributors that has been problematic in the past. The initial 3 paragraphs of accusations against the IP user and Nyttend are expressions of paranoia (the assumption that anyone who reverts his changes or questions his edits is someone he has identified as having a personal animus against him) and article ownership. In his later post asserting that he is an authority and suggesting that the IP should pursue mediation if he disagrees with Doncram's authority -- and by posting 10 paragraphs (a veritable wall of words -- and all about an inconsequential disambiguation page!) in slightly more than 5 hours, Doncram was (in effect, if not conscious intent) telling the IP to get out of his way and stay away. The parting words of the IP ("..This is getting way too weird. ...I'm not touching this page again") are a fine summation of the effect of Doncram's behavior on the IP -- and why this behavior is a problem. I wish Doncram could be made to understand that people like Nyttend and me aren't conspiring against him. I don't hold out hope of convincing him that we aren't out to get him, but he does need to recognize that this behavior toward other users is intimidation that will not be tolerated. --Orlady (talk) 18:51, 30 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

This pattern of (1) commenting on the contributor rather than the content, (2) asserting his superiority (and implied article ownership), and (3) overwhelming other talk participants with a disproportionately long outpouring of words ("wall of words") is behavior that I have been seeing in Doncram since 2008. He has accused me of bullying and intimidation (but did not provide evidence), but he has been consistently and persistently engaging in behaviors that demonstrably intimidate other users. Furthermore, his request for mediation with another user over an incredibly trivial disagreement is a behavior that I've experienced in the past (and is included in evidence in the Arbcom case) that I believe is intimidating in its effect, if not necessarily its intent. --Orlady (talk) 15:23, 31 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think Sandstein's suggestion of a topic restriction related to NRHP makes much sense. The issue here is behavior, not content. Almost all of Doncram's edits are related to the NRHP, so it's logical that that's where almost all of his behavioral issues arise. Restricting him from that topic might be a good recipe for making him upset and angry, but it's not a good recipe for addressing his behavior. --Orlady (talk) 20:02, 31 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Gatoclass suggests that an RFC might be appropriate. Considering that discussions that include Doncram tend to balloon way out of proportion to the issue, and in view of my observations of Doncram's disambiguation activities over several years, I don't believe that an RFC is called for. Doncram has undertaken a laudable -- and often thankless (meaning unappreciated) -- long-term project to create disambiguation pages for National Register properties. He has endured a lot of criticism over the years for failing to abide by the clearly documented guidance at WP:Disambiguation, for issues that at various times have included (but are not limited to) (1) listing disambiguation entries that don't contain any bluelinks, (2) in an attempt to resolve issue 1, adding bluelinks that point to pages that don't cover the title supposedly being disambiguated, (3) creating disambiguation pages that list only two items, (4) including two or more bluelinks in a single disambiguation entry (this typically happened when he converted a redlink into a bluelink shortly after creating the disambiguation page), and (5) creating disambiguation pages for items that contain similar words but are incredibly unlikely ever to need disambiguation. To "defend" his disambiguation pages, he got into a habit of creating exceptionally minimal stub-article pages so that there would be a bluelink to display on the page (these stubs were one of the big issues discussed in the Arbcom case). To "defend" listings of redlinks, he got into a habit of adding a link to an NRHP list-article at the end of every entry on his disambiguation pages; this habit has apparently become so thoroughly ingrained that he now often adds the words "NRHP-listed" (or something similar) after every blue-linked entry for an NRHP-listed property, as illustrated at O'Connor House. The "See also" section of that page also is an illustration of the issue I enumerated as "(5)". I think the best resolution of the content-related aspects of the issues that arose at "O'Connor House" would be for an uninvolved administrator who is knowledgeable about the ins and outs of disambiguation pages to advise him on crafting disambiguation pages that conform with both the specific guidance at WP:Disambiguation and the philosophy behind that guideline page. I also think that would be consistent with the "general editor probation" remedy imposed by Arbcom. --Orlady (talk) 16:01, 1 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

@Gatoclass: (It took me some time to decide what I really did mean.) The main issue in this request is behavioral and has essentially nothing to do with WP:Disambiguation. Disambiguation is only a side issue, but larger issues possibly could be avoided in the future if the disambiguation issue was addressed now. I think this could be addressed under authority of the general editor probation sanction. However, there's probably no benefit from having an uninvolved administrator "require" Doncram to conform to WP:Disambiguation unless the requirement is accompanied by specific advice on what he needs to do differently in order to conform. This is because he apparently is convinced that he fully conforms now. An uninvolved administrator could advise him about possible reasons why various other editors persistently perceive problems with his disambiguation pages, and how he should/could edit those pages to avert future criticisms. --Orlady (talk) 00:33, 3 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Elkman

It's too bad the arbitration didn't give Doncram the article-locking capability that he's apparently wanted. By the way, when he says he welcomes constructive input on his articles, he really means it's OK for other people to edit his articles only if they say something he agrees with. That's why I reverted the IP edits to the O'Connor House article, because sometimes an office building or a glassware factory can be confused with a house. --Elkman ^(Elkspeak) 20:15, 30 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

By the way, can I get a ruling on whether it was OK for me to add a link to the National Register nomination for Durham School (Durham, Arkansas) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)? It could be argued that I was violating WP:POINT to support a discussion at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2013 March 21#Category:Bungalow/Craftsman architecture in the United States. --Elkman ^(Elkspeak) 20:19, 30 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

OK, so Arbcom doesn't want to provide a ruling on the Durham School edit. Could I get a ruling from Doncram himself? --Elkman ^(Elkspeak) 03:41, 31 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

TDA: Maybe you can tell me exactly which one of my contributions is a violation of policy, and bring it up here. Then you could get me blocked for a time, or perhaps banned. (I'm sure you and your friends at W-------ocracy would entirely love to see that happen.) To be honest, I don't know what sort of things I might say that might upset Doncram. If I mention that the start date of a building is often after the start date of the organization that built it, do I have to walk on eggshells when saying so, because Doncram might get upset? Is it a matter of arbitration that adding a National Register nomination form link to an article might make Doncram upset? Sometimes I can't figure that sort of stuff out on my own. I was really hoping that Arbcom would provide an exact answer on when it's OK or not OK for me to edit articles that Doncram has ownership of.

Regardless, I think I get your point that I absolutely must not say anything that disturbs Doncram. Meanwhile, I'm assuming it's still perfectly OK with you if Doncram insults my work, implies that I do inaccurate and insufficient work, and asserts that I don't operate with quality and integrity. I can be quite certain that you don't have any qualms about insulting me, personally, judging from this message. --Elkman ^(Elkspeak) 04:39, 31 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Nyttend

Adding a second statement, since Sandstein asks for clarification from me. First off, the request is for a block; I didn't know that there were any options here other than "block" or "no sanction". Go with Orlady's and Elkman's diffs and comments, plus note that he accuses me of doing the editing, without basis (and as noted by Orlady, he's driven the IP off), and here characterises an attempt to get a community-approved process put into practise as being "railroaded" through without notification to him — this despite his non-involvement in anything related to the community approval. In the diff that Orlady calls "asserting that he is an authority...", Doncram even says "You probably do not see all of this, you don't see yourself as a rogue editor causing problems, but to me you seem somewhat like a series of previous editors who have arrived and taken interest in dab pages...". In other words, "You don't think of yourself as causing problems, but I know better, and you look like a sock in disguise" — an accusation of sockpuppetry without evidence. Finally, please look at the entirety of Talk:O'Connor House — not to read it, but simply glancing over the comments to see how long they are. Doncram's frequently clogged things up with TLDR statements (and objections when people tell him that they're too long), even doing this at the arbitration request. None of the things mentioned are sanctionable by themselves, just like none of his actions before the case were by themselves sanctionable, but all of them put together are problematic. These actions are some of what the arbitration ruling was supposed to stop; since he's acting the same way as beforehand, we need to use the arbitration ruling. Nyttend (talk) 03:13, 31 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by The Devil's Advocate

I do not believe there is anything of concern here. Nowhere do I see an indication that Doncram's conduct "repeatedly or seriously fails to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any normal editorial process or any expected standards of behavior and decorum." This is just seizing on trivialities and technicalities to get Doncram sanctioned for no apparently constructive purpose. These editors (Nyttend, Orlady, and Elkman) should just leave Doncram well enough alone. If they don't need to interact with him they shouldn't. I don't think any of them should be able to go to some page Doncram created or edited, make some edit they would have every reason to believe will lead to some amount of tension with Doncram, and then use any resulting tension as cause for getting him sanctioned.--The Devil's Advocate _{tlk. cntrb.} 04:06, 31 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The simple fact is that nothing happened here that is even worth acknowledging. An IP with clear experience on Wikipedia began reverting changes to a dab page after Nyttend had made a similar revert. For Doncram to suggest there was a connection is not obscene as most editors would be suspicious. People can get all bewildered at Doncram reacting defensively over a dab page, but why is anyone insistent on removing a few harmless links from a dab page in the first place? It is not excessive and there is certainly a logical basis for the inclusion of those links. Nyttend and Doncram have negative history, including a recent attempt by Nyttend to have another of Doncram's legitimate dab pages speedily deleted, and Nyttend obviously would be aware that Doncram may not react well to him deleting material from a page Doncram created. He is now using that reaction to push for sanctions. This sort of conduct towards someone in a dispute should not be rewarded with anything, even a warning.--The Devil's Advocate _{tlk. cntrb.} 17:25, 31 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Mathsci

In the edit summary to a disambiguation page[2], Doncram accused an anonymous IP, whose edits he twice reverted, of being a logged-off editor subject to an interaction ban with him. The only such editor is SarekOfVulcan. On the talk page, however, Doncram suggested in a long paragraph that the IP was Nyttend, who had edited the page a few days beforehand.[3] Even when told this was not the case by Nyttend and the IP, Doncram continued using the talk page for making general allegations concerning Nyttend.[4][5] This was uncollegial editing and a violation of the remedy of general editor probation.

Of those commenting here, Nyttend, Orlady and Elkman are experienced editors in the NRHP area. Although all three were named parties in the recently closed Doncram case, none of them were mentioned in the final decision of the arbitration committee. In particular, none of these editors is subject to any kind of interaction ban. General editor probabtion applies to all articles Doncram edits. These are almost exclusively short stubs, lists and disambiguation pages. Any edit to this kind of page could be described as trivial. However, the conduct on the talk page, with unjustified bad faith accusations of sockpuppetry, was out of all proportion. The arbcom case contained numerous examples of bad faith accusations of an extreme kind, verging on paranoia. This is no different. Mathsci (talk) 08:59, 31 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

There is no point at all in an RfC. The problems were identified in great detail in the arbcom case. There is no need to repeat that lengthy and painstaking process. Doncram was given the benefit of the doubt in that arbcom case. If he resumes the kind of conduct that was pinpointed there (personalized attacks out of all proportion), some concrete short term measures, such as one week-long blocks, are the way forward. Topic bans serve no purpose as they would effectively be sitebans, given the nature of WP:NRHP and Doncram's specific interests. Doncram certainly has enough self-awareness to know when he is crossing a line. If not ... Mathsci (talk) 16:12, 1 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Keithbob

I agree with the assessment by Gatoclass and Sandstein. Doncram's main offense here is his repeated focus on the editor(s) instead of on the content, as well as a lack of collaborative spirit and ownership. I don't believe the behavioral issues rise to the level yet where strong action is needed and a series of gradual restrictions is a good idea. However, if Doncram keeps going on the current path he/she will eventually be banned from WP and rightly so. However, I am hoping that a series of increasingly severe sanctions will be a wake up call to amend his/her behavior and eliminate the current situation whereby their productive edits are negated or even overshadowed by their misbehavior. Doncram would also be wise to note that not all Admins will be as patient as Sandstein and Gatoclass, especially as the situation progresses and if he/she wants to continue on WP the time to shape up is now. -- — Keithbob • Talk • 14:35, 3 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Pigsonthewing

[The following was a reply to this edit and was moved here by another editor]

Hasn't he already been 'advised' to that effect? More than once? Note also his comments at Wikipedia:Bots/Requests for approval/RileyBot 9, made after his statement above (1; 2; 3; 4). Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 14:47, 3 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

[The following was a reply to this edit and was moved here by another editor]

That is indeed a dispute about Doncoram's concern about content. But as the bot isn't changing the content in question, his comments are inappropriate, and yet despite having this pointed out to him several times he persists, casting aspersions the editors who address him there. Unlike him, I have talked about an editor's actions, not their personality or supposed motivations. As such your thinly-veiled attempt to silence me trough threat is both unwarranted and inappropriate. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 15:57, 3 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by (username)

Result concerning Doncram

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

Nyttend, this request is a bit too broad and unspecific for my taste (although other colleagues might see this differently). Could you please submit (a) only diffs, not links to whole discussion threads; (b) explain with respect to each diff how exactly you think "Doncram repeatedly or seriously fails to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any normal editorial process or any expected standards of behavior and decorum", and (c) tell us what administrative actions you propose we take? Sandstein 21:04, 30 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Elkman, sorry: because your conduct is not covered by arbitration remedies, its assessment is, I believe, outside the scope of this noticeboard. Sandstein 21:09, 30 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Diffs are certainly preferable, though I'm not averse to links to full discussion threads where they provide useful context. I agree that Nyttend's evidence is a little vague though. Orlady's diffs and commentary are more helpful IMO. In this diff, for example, doncram proposes to document past behavior and tendencies, to inform a current discussion, if that is you Nyttend. "Document[ing] past behaviour and tendencies" of an editor to "inform a current discussion" doesn't sound like a very collegial, or productive, approach to talk page discussion. Doncram's response to an IP also strikes me as excessive and arguably intimidatory, or likely to have an intimidatory effect on a new user (although the IP in question doesn't actually sound like an inexperienced wikipedian).

On the other hand, doncram was cited in the original arbcom case specifically for incivility, and I don't think these diffs reach to that level. The apparent tendency to comment on contributor rather than content, however, is troubling. I'm not sure whether we should be broadening the scope of sanctions based on just a couple of diffs, but I guess one option, if this kind of behaviour persists, would be to prohibit doncram from commenting on contributor (with the usual exceptions), thus encouraging him to keep his comments focussed on content. Gatoclass (talk) 00:16, 31 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

After reviewing the evidence, I tend to agree with Gatoclass. Doncram's editing isn't so problematic as to call for immediate action, but it is troublesome nonetheless. His contributions are confrontative, sometimes address contributors rather than content, tend to assume bad faith on the part of others and seem to reflect a sense of ownership as well as grudges about past conflicts. Gatoclass is right to say that this is not a collegial or productive approach to talk page discussion, and I can well understand why the IP editor left the discussion saying that they were weirded out by this. I suggest warning Doncram that if they continue participating in discussions in this vein, we will ban them from making edits related to the National Register of Historic Places, which seems to be the topical nexus of this problem. Sandstein 10:14, 31 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

What I'm concerned about here, is that looking at the issues with this editor, we're just papering over the cracks in the dam. We're banning them specific articles where there's a problem, but sooner or later it springs a leak somewhere else. SirFozzie (talk) 08:03, 1 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure what you mean by that SirFozzie, but if you mean doncram's behavioural issues are not confined to one topic area, you may have a point.

This request reminds me somewhat of the recent SMcCandlish case in that doncram appears to be an editor whose value to the encyclopedia is generally acknowledged (correct me if I'm wrong), but whose approach to discussion tends to alienate other users. I'm always reluctant in such circumstances to go straight to topic bans or blocks, preferring to try other options first. At this point, not much evidence of misconduct has been presented, so I'd prefer to start at the milder end of the scale. My suggestion would be to start with an advisement to doncram to avoid gratuitous comments on contributor, if the problem persists, we can try an outright prohibition on such comments, if that doesn't work we can then start considering blocks and bans. Another possible option might be to require him to abide by consensus; ie, if he is reverting in defiance of consensus, that could be seen as grounds for sanction. I mention this because he appears to have reverted two users over the same issue at this page. Gatoclass (talk) 13:33, 1 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

BTW, if there is a meta-issue here, that potentially affects thousands of pages, as indicated by the talk page discussion, would a content RFC be helpful in reducing tensions? Gatoclass (talk) 14:39, 1 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

@Orlady - you mean an administrator, acting under authority of discretionary sanctions, might simply require him to conform to WP:Disambiguation? I guess that might be an option - assuming the issues surrounding disambiguation pages are the main focus of conflict, and the guideline violations are demonstrable. Gatoclass (talk) 07:36, 2 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

We seem to agree that there's a problem, but we don't seem to be certain that it requires immediate action (and if so, what). Without objection, I'll close this with an advisement to Doncram that if the problems identified here continue (e.g., confrontative attitude, ownership, commenting on contributor rather than content, assumptions of bad faith), then he may be made be subject to more or less wide-ranging restrictions. Sandstein 13:59, 3 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Pigsonthewing: Although I don't understand why exactly Doncram objects to the task proposed at Wikipedia:Bots/Requests for approval/RileyBot 9, it seems to me that this (notably the diffs you provide) is primarily reflective of a content dispute (about how certain infobox fields should be formatted) rather than of a conduct problem. That content disagreement is not subject to arbitration enforcement. That is, Doncram may not be sanctioned for his opinions, but only for how he expresses them. But I note that in said discussion, you are also arguing confrontatively and, in part, aimed at the contributor rather than at the content. Please also take the advice given to Doncram here, or we may need to ask ArbCom to extend the remedy to encompass additional editors or the whole topic area. Sandstein 15:27, 3 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Agree with Gatoclass and Sandstein. The evidence presented here was not blatant enough to justify any strong action. It is hard to think of any topic ban that would be workable. In the dispute about the RileyBot, the concerns of both sides are understandable and you really can't say that Doncram is being perverse. So we are left with Doncram suggesting with no evidence that Nyttend is running IP socks. That's not bad enough to justify a sanction, in my view. If Sandstein wants to close this with a warning as he proposed above, I would support that. EdJohnston (talk) 03:29, 4 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

So done. Sandstein 07:54, 4 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Dasixiaoriben

The request is moot. Dasixiaoriben has been indefinitely blocked for reasons unrelated to arbitration enforcement. Sandstein 19:45, 4 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning Dasixiaoriben

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: Nableezy 14:10, 4 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

User against whom enforcement is requested: Dasixiaoriben (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Sanction or remedy to be enforced: Wikipedia:ARBPIA#General 1RR restriction

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

14:41, 3 April 2013 Revert of this
19:20, 3 April 2013 Revert of this
08:49, 4 April 2013 Partial revert of this, source misrepresentation

Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)

Warned on 1RR here, prior to last revert listed

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

The user has been claiming that a new edition of the cited source does not contain the material currently cited. That is demonstrably false. In the last edit, the user changes what has come to be known as the Lydda Death March. to The event has come to be known as the 1948 Palestinian exodus from Lydda and Ramle and has also been referred to as the Lydda Death March when the cited source says 'On 12 July, the Arab inhabitants of the Lydda-Ramle area, amounting to come 70,000, were expelled in what became known as the 'Lydda Death March'. The user has edit-warred, misrepresented sources, and lied about other sources. He has also been edit-warring on the talk page of the article, repeatedly blanking or modifying another user's comments (eg [6], [7], [8]). I have a hard time believing that this is not a reincarnation of the past collection of sockpuppets of a banned user that has plagued that page, but even without that being taken into consideration he or she is violating the 1RR and lying about sources.

Sandstein, the source misrepresentation is in the article. nableezy - 16:14, 4 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Notified

Discussion concerning Dasixiaoriben

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by Dasixiaoriben

First, my English is not polished. I make many efforts to ensure my edits to articles are grammatically correct. When I put on the talk page I dont make sure as much. But for this to be called me a vandal or disruption is wrong. I have improved the article. I think Nableezy says I violate 1rr by saying that ANY edit of the site is a revert, but this isn't true. I made an edit, it was reverted, so I went to the talk page. When I say what he said (no other user contested the content) I am called a 1rr violater. I am reading about Wikipedia policy. I tried to make edits that make concensus. You can see by above, he is making me intot he devil when I am working to make a better encyclopedia. No edit I make to an article is bad grammar, I make hard to ensure the article has good grammar.

Also, I have read many Wikipedia policy. I am sure I not know all, but I have the good faith. I think Nableezy's problem is our cultural difference. He is American and I am Chinese. If administrator think I not know enough about scholarship (Western scholarship?) to make edits, than I accept.

But, what I think is Nableezy is politically minded, not for Wikipedia.Dasixiaoriben (talk) 18:09, 4 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Sean.hoyland

The editor doesn't have a 'limited command of English'. They are writing in a way that they imagine resembles the way a Chinese person with a limited command of English would write, because it serves their purpose to do so, presumably for stimulation rather than deception given that it is inept and inconsistent. Doing whatever serves their purpose, irrespective of rules and norms, has been this person's prime concern for over 2 years. They'll either be blocked as a Lutrinae sock at some point or like their Luke 19 Verse 27 sock they will be blocked for disruption. Either way, it's inevitable that they will be blocked eventually and more time will have been wasted because of this person inability to control their behavior. Sean.hoyland - talk 19:33, 4 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Result concerning Dasixiaoriben

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

I've previously offered the opinion that WP:ARBPIA#General 1RR restriction is not enforceable in this kind of situation, because it has not been imposed by Committee vote and is therefore not a binding ArbCom remedy; and if it is considered a discretionary sanction then Dasixiaoriben has not received the specific type of warning required by WP:AC/DS (not even in an edit notice). As such, the most we could do under AE authority would be to issue that warning. But in view of the "cow pie" type of vandalism engaged in by this very new account (which does give some credence to the suspicion of socking), combined with the edit-warring and their apparently limited command of English, I'm not sure whether we shouldn't just indef-block the account under normal administrator authority for disruptive editing and not being a net benefit to Wikipedia. – Just a note concerning "source misrepresentation": In my view this should be reserved to mean making false statements about a source's contents in an article, rather than (as here, allegedly) in a discussion. Sandstein 16:07, 4 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I've username blocked. That username in pinyin basically translates to "beat Japs to death". T. Canens (talk) 19:39, 4 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks – I'll close this as moot, then. Sandstein 19:43, 4 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Galassi

Galassi is indefinitely topic-banned from Ukraine. Sandstein 11:46, 7 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning Galassi

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: My very best wishes (talk) 04:06, 5 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

User against whom enforcement is requested: Galassi (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Sanction or remedy to be enforced: Wikipedia:DIGWUREN#Standard_discretionary_sanctions

Clarification: This user is already under personal editing restriction from October 2011 as stated here and logged here. According to this restriction, he is placed under an indefinite revert limitation on all Ukraine-related edits: not more than 1 revert per 48 hours per article, with the extra slowdown condition that before they make any content revert (obvious vandalism excepted as usual), they are required to first open a discussion on talk, provide an explanation of their intended revert and then wait 6 hours before actually making it to allow time for discussion.

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

April 3. [9],[10],[11],[12]
April 1. [13]
March 30. [14],[15]
March 18. [16]
March 16. [17][18]
March 17.[19]
March 14 [20]

And so on, and so on. Every single diff was a violation of his editing restriction because: (a) all of them are Ukraine-related, (b) he never started discussions at talk pages of these articles prior to revert as he suppose to do per restriction; (c) none of these reverts is simply a vandalism fixing, as clear from his own edit summaries ("POV", sourcing, etc.). In essence, Galassi simply decided to ignore his restriction.

Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)

March 17 Warning by admin about edit warring in Rus' people - related to Ukraine

October 18 2012 Edit warring warning by two admins in Little Russia - this is Ukraine

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

He apparently also edit war in ARBPIA area.

His problem is actually not the Ukraine-related topics, but a tendency to quickly revert edits by other contributors without talking. No, he does not follow WP:BRD cycle.

I run into this problem while editing articles that are not on Ukrainian subjects, but fell in EE area. He made this and this edits. This is a pretty strong statement (first diff) that "Although the case was officially declared as "completely fabricated" and all victims rehabilitated by Russian authorities in 1992 (ref) [from previous version], the later research has shown that there was in fact a conspiracy, and Gumilev did take part in it (another ref) [his addition]. He tells "in fact". How come? This claim simply contradicts most RS. Hence I reverted both changes per WP:BRD and started discussion at talk pages: here and here.

Galassi responded only by telling this in one of the talk pages, and then immediately reverted here (his edit summary: "not what sources say..") and here (edit summary "per recent reliable research"). This is the same problem as with Ukrainian subjects. But more important, as became clear from our later discussions ("POV" here and on his talk page), he did not even read any of the sources he refer to in his reverts.

I did not want to submit this request and therefore talked with Galassi [21] to ask if he understands that reverting others without talking and without even checking the sources is not a good idea, and that editing restrictions must be respected, but without any success.

@Galassi. According to log in WP:DIGWUREN, this editing restriction is still active, and there is nothing about expiration date in the original statement [22]. However, just to make sure, I asked you yesterday if you think the restriction has expired [23], and you responded "no" [24]. Moreover, this is not the first time when we are talking about this [25], and you never said this restriction is no longer active. My very best wishes (talk) 12:22, 5 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

@Volunteer Marek. As I already said above, the problem of Galassi is not Ukrainian subjects, but rather his tendency to quickly revert edits by other contributors not only without talking, but sometimes even without looking at sources. And he starts edit warring (rather than BRD cycle) after making humiliating comments like this or no comments at all. That is why FPS made such unusual sanction. And when it comes to discussions, Galassi is not responsive. I asked him four times if he read a source, but he did not respond. For example, if he said me on his talk page that he understands the problem with his editing style, will improve it, and self-revert (self-reverting is simply a test showing that someone is ready to compromise), then I would never report him here. Therefore, I think the most sensible approach would be to extend this existing sanction by FPS to all EE subjects, rather than making the Ukrainian topic ban.

Please also see my additional explanation here.

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

here

Discussion concerning Galassi

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by Galassi

User User:My very best wishes and are involved not an edit war but in a content dispute, in which he relies on a single dated source. None of my edits were controversial (Ukraine related or otherwise). My topic bans are Ukrainians and the Battle of Konotop and my 6month restrictions have long lapsed.

In the case of Nikolay Gumilev's execution: I am translating the corresponding section from ru-wiki which is thoroughly sourced, as I stated in the relevant discussion.

User:My very best wishes's POV tendencies are evident also in his edits on the Yakov Agranov article, where he squarely lays blame for the Stalin's era repressions on Agranov, which to me sounds rather antisemitic, and I simply toned down the unencyclopedic tone of the article. In the case of Ilya Ehrenburg article, again, User:My very best wishes is intent on showing a "bloodthirsty Jew" by manipulating quotes and taking them out of context.--Galassi (talk) 10:02, 5 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think Fut.Perf. ever informed me of any indefinite blanket Ukraine restrictions. I was only told of the 6month 1R, and there weren't any situations where that would have arisen. And as Volunteer Marek has noticed none of my edits were controversial, and there were no complaints for 2 over years. Certainly there weren't any issues with Fut.Perf. who, I assume, would have been watching what I do, as he has in the past. I think Best Wishes is seeking to "neutralize" me in retaliation for catching him in several instances of antisemitic POV.--Galassi (talk) 11:35, 6 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Volunteer Marek

From Galassi's comment above, it's my impression that he thought the revert restriction was related only to the articles Ukrainians and Battle of Konotop, not anything to do with Ukraine, or for that matter, any topic what so ever (which the wording of the restriction seems to suggest if interpreted broadly). Add on top of that that most of his edits since that restriction have been non controversial, with only an occasional revert here or there, and basically nothing has happened since October 2011 to make him think otherwise. I would definitely advise against a topic ban on Ukrainian topics in general. Even if there's a violation here it seems like a idiosyncratic lapse two years after the sanction was imposed so he might have simply forgotten about it (yes, the edit warring's problematic but it looks like just somebody getting caught up in the heat of the situation - short term block for that is the usual remedy). Additionally, while it may not be obvious for a user who's devoted to a particular topic area an indefinite topic ban is essentially equivalent to a site ban. Way way too harsh. I think even My very best wishes would agree that that's going over the top.Volunteer Marek 22:20, 5 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Additional comments:

As far as I can tell Galassi hasn't been brought to WP:AE since December 2010, and in particular, not since the sanction was put in place. So I'm assuming this is the first violation of the sanction (after two years) of significance. As a result I don't think an *indefinite* topic ban from Ukraine-related topics is appropriate. Some kind of sanction, maybe. But the way it usually works is that the first offense results in a short term block or a limited time topic ban, and the sanctions are only escalated with subsequent infringements. Basically, immediately jumping to an indefinite topic ban is way out of proportion here.Volunteer Marek 07:56, 6 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Estlandia (Miacek)

Diffs brought up by My very best wishes clearly reveal that Galassi violated the restrictions. My very best wishes is also right when he states that Galassi is too quick to push the revert button. Instead of discussing with his opponents (like My very best wishes attempted to do), he simply chose to revert. I also resent the fact that Galassi is once again using the 'antisemitism accusation' ([26]) as a killer phrase when having a dispute. The accusation he presented on his comment here (″is intent on showing a "bloodthirsty Jew" by manipulating quotes and taking them out of context.″) runs contrary to our rules. Despite this, Galassi is a generally constructive contributor, he should just (1) drop the accusations of antisemitic (or Russophile) bias (2) stop edit warring and seek consensus instead. Miacek and his crime-fighting dog (woof!) 12:25, 6 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by The Devil's Advocate

The only real issue I see that he has occasionally violated the "explain first" aspect of a complicated year-and-a-half old restriction. In the first five reverts noted above Galassi is reverting an IP editor who is making disruptive, nonsensical changes to an article. Although not vandalism per se, I think we should give a little consideration to the nature of those edits. The 1RR in ARBPIA actually exempts reverts of IP editors from such restrictions and for good reason. IP editors can and do make appropriate changes, but then you have instances like above where the IP adds some tendentiously-worded gobbledygook and is persistent in edit-warring in their nonsense. We shouldn't thump an editor for keeping that type of content out. Outside of those edits you basically have some occasional technical violations from March. These are far from justifying an indefinite topic ban.

As for Sandstein's talk about rollback, there is nothing untoward in Galassi's use of Twinkle. That tool is not the same as the rollback tool for a variety of reasons and is thus not subject to the same restrictions as the rollback tool. Anyone can get Twinkle by enabling it in their account settings so it isn't necessary for an admin to determine someone is a trusted editor before they can use Twinkle, and it allows for options that do not involve vandalism. It is not appropriate to suggest that Galassi should be barred from using Twinkle and not allowed to get rollback rights on the basis of the edits above.--The Devil's Advocate _{tlk. cntrb.} 16:43, 6 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by (username)

Result concerning Galassi

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

I've asked the admin who imposed the restriction to comment, but to me, this looks like a clear violation of the editing restriction, which is a binding discretionary sanction. The statement by Galassi does not address the restriction or its violation at all, but only the content disputes in the context of which the violation occurred, but these content issues are irrelevant for the purpose of this request.

In addition, the reverts cited as evidence are problematic in and of itself: The series of 3 April 2013 violates WP:3RR. Several inaccurately characterize the reverted edit as vandalism ([27], [28]), or were made without an explanation in the edit summary ([29], [30], [31]), and one was made with the misleading summary "restoration of sourced content", when in fact it re-added unsourced content, including content tagged with "citation needed|date=May 2011". This constitutes disruptive editing.

Because these edits were made to articles related to Ukraine, which was also the scope of the original restriction, I am of the opinion that an appropriate reaction to this violation would be to ban Galassi indefinitely from editing anything related to Ukraine. Additionally, because in some of these reverts Galassi used an automated rollback tool (Twinkle) to rollback edits that were not vandalism, which violates the rollback guideline, they should be indefinitely prohibited from using Twinkle or another rollback tool, or from requesting rollback permission. Sandstein 12:19, 5 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that this behavior violates the restriction imposed by FP and that it's time for an indefinite ban of User:Galassi from anything related to Ukraine. Since Galassi is not a new editor he would surely know how to behave better than what is documented here. If Future Perfect does come here to comment maybe he will consider lifting his original restriction (requiring discussion) and accepting this one in its place. Complex restrictions are hard to remember and hard to enforce. EdJohnston (talk) 22:23, 5 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

It seems that Future Perfect at Sunrise doesn't want to comment here. Contrary to what Galassi says, he was informed about the restriction. It also doesn't help his case that he repeatedly accuses the editor who made this request of antisemitism ([32], [33]). Accusing others of racist bias is a very serious charge, and making it (as here) without convincing evidence is in and of itself highly disruptive. I've taken into account what others have said above, but the general picture I get from Galassi based on this report is that they do not have the understanding or self-discipline required to contribute to highly contested topics in a constructive and collegial manner. They should limit themselves to editing in areas where they are not likely to enter into conflicts with others. Consequently, I'm imposing the topic ban discussed above. This does not supersede, but complement, the previous editing restriction; such that if this ban is lifted, the editing restriction remains in force. There's insufficient evidence for any action in the WP:ARBPIA area, but that can be the subject of a separate report if needed. I'm not implementing the rollback restriction, as there's no evidence of rollback misuse outside the area that is now to be subject to the topic ban. Sandstein 11:44, 7 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Rumiton

Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found here. According to the procedures, a "clear, substantial, and active consensus of uninvolved editors" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action.

To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see WP:UNINVOLVED).

Appealing user

Rumiton (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

User imposing the sanction

The Blade of the Northern Lights (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)

Sanction being appealed

Rumiton’s indefinite ban from all Prem Rawat related articles.

Log of Blocks, Bans and Restrictions

Here (scroll to bottom.)

Reason for the appeal

1. Indefinite bans without evidence of wrongdoing are against the Wikipedia ethos and seem to set a dangerous precedent.

2. I am a Guild Member, with over 10,000 edits to 1300 pages in 6 years. I have played a major role in bringing articles (Sinking of the RMS Titanic, German battleship Bismarck, Ernst Lindemann and Attack on Sydney Harbour) to Featured Article status, helped put out fires at Jesus Army, and fought a long and mostly losing battle to keep Sathya Sai Baba honest. Admittedly, none of these was as contentious as the Prem Rawat pages, where a battleground mentality has proved resistant to change, but I believe I have been a moderating influence there also. See [34], [35], [36], [37], [38], [39], [40], [41], [42],

3. As a result of a Decision Amendment Request, this article has now been brought under Standard Discretionary Sanctions. There are eight SDS criteria, [43] this action clearly fails:

i. No misconduct was identified that could “spill over to other areas of Wikipedia.”

ii. Additional input in this sanction does not appear to have been sought.

4. Blade’s comment, ‘‘I honestly hate to have to do this, but I think that the only way to stop the endless deadlock on the article is to go nuclear.’’ [44] is controversial. Rather than an “endless deadlock”, the article was steadily improving. A flurry of minor and discussed edits had recently been made, some of which I politely objected to. [45] Most of the other objections seemed focused on denigrating the subject and other editors, culminating in the outing of an editor and the blocking of the outer. [46]

5. Re article neutrality, I believe the article has improved. Littleolive oil (uninvolved) wrote in Rainer P’s appeal: ’’I...now...sense that Rawat is controversial, has detractors and supporters, and I have a sense of what his tenets are. I no longer feel I am being manipulated to see Rawat in any particular way. The slant when I came in was pejorative.’’ [47]

6. Blanket banning has not helped this article. Arguably this article has gone backwards since November.

7. While I admire Prem Rawat’s perspectives and perseverance, I have never held any official position in any of his organisations and have certainly never been paid to edit. I have no COI.

I believe The Blade of the Northern Lights has made a mistake in applying this sanction to me, and I respectfully request that it be lifted.

Notification of the administrator

[48]

Statement by The Blade of the Northern Lights

OK, it took me a while to refresh my memory of all this, so here goes. First off, here is when I lifted the ban in August; I thought that Rumiton had done a considerable amount of good, neutral editing in a very tough article (2012 Assam violence was a gigantic mess and getting hit with all kinds of unhelpful garbage, and I commend him for the work he put in there). I thought it demonstrated his ability to keep neutral in a hard area, and figured it wouldn't hurt to allow him another chance at Prem Rawat. This is the statement I made on the matter in mid-December after I imposed the bans, when ArbCom decided to switch over to standard DS without vacating the sanctions I imposed. Since that time, my stance has not changed. As I alluded to, there's no one diff which can sum up what I was seeing, but it's the overall pattern which was the problem. I extensively talked this over with User:Steven Zhang (who I will notify now that I've mentioned him), who did a huge amount of mediation in the topic area, and he saw exactly what I did. Immediately after I imposed the bans several respected editors- including Jimbo personally- stepped in to undo several edits Rumiton had either done or supported; some of this can be seen at Talk:Prem Rawat/Archive 50#Massive revert of content, and the rest can be seen in the article history from that time.

With regard to Rumiton's statement above, my view essentially echoes IRWolfie-. To the extent that this appeal is directed at me, I decline it, and to the extent it's directed at others I encourage others to decline it as well. If the ban was lifted I would have the same view I expressed in December about how monopolized the article was before my intervention, and the statement above does not allay those concerns. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 23:53, 5 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

@Richwales; here are the series of edits which ultimately made me go through with the bans. The edits were all made by Momento, but Rumiton repeatedly expressed his support of them, starting at Talk:Prem Rawat/Archive 50#Undue weight and moving through the next several threads. The edits were plainly tendentious and slanted, and Rumiton's total support of them indicates to me that he would pick up right where Momento left off. I explicitly talked about this with Steven Zhang, and he concurred based on the comments and his past experience working with Rumiton. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 01:46, 6 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Littleolive oil

This ban should be investigated based on two issues, one on whether appropriate Wikipedia processes were or were not followed and two as a subsection of that what indications are there that the talk page processes on Prem Rawat were failing and a ban should be implemented. I came to the Prem Rawat article in August 2012 [49] because of this comment [50] on Jimbo Wales' talk page. I was an uninvolved editor with no knowledge of Prem Rawat or his organization. I idealistically hoped to help foster appropriate processes on the talk page and as someone uninvolved to quiet the incivility I found on the page. Simply, the talk page processes began to work and were on going and productive, (which I don't take credit for, but my intent was to help with this process). There was little or no edit warring although Pat W tended to degrade the process with incivility. In this atmosphere where editors had improved in their relations and progress was being made, Blade of the Northern Lights made a surprising and extreme move banning 4 editors, without diffs that illustrated problematic behaviour. Given the ongoing improvement in the article environment, the ban is puzzling to say the least. Not only where there no diffs, there were no diffs showing individual editor misbehaviour and nothing that I saw then indicated Rumiton should be removed from the article. Each editor on editing this article is an individual and while Wikipedia processes allow a single admin to ban or block based on discretionary sanctions, Wikipedia processes also indicate editors can expect to be told why they have been banned. I know that the Prem Rawat article is highly contentious and has been the subject of several arbitration. Unfortunately, the progress that was being made in term of collaboration was abruptly ended with this ban.

- My concern with this whole issue is the continued focus on the past rather than on the present, and on viewing this article from one side and not holistically. When I went into this article, I knew nothing about Rumiton, Momento, or any of the other regular editor on the PR with the exception of Will Beback now banned from all NRM articles. What does that ban say about the dynamics of this article? Does it say the problems were all on one side. On the contrary, yet I went into this article with the assumption that certain editors must be at fault. Frankly that's not what I found. I found levels of aggression and incivility that eventually forced me to leave the article, and I found editors attempting to discuss perfectly acceptable points of contention and being attacked for doing so. Tendentious editing is a highly abstract idea. Better to lay out specific instances of concern than sweep the whole situation into the one bag of tendentious editing. Better to see who is doing what, and especially why without the added baggage of presumptions.

My sense is that like me, others came onto this article with a predisposed view of the situation based on the past arbitrations. There may well have been concerns as the arbitrations outlined. I am however, inclined to look at those arbitrations with fresh eyes given the input a now banned editor had in them and to look at the talk page of Prem Rawat from more than one angle What is needed now is not to look at the past, but at what really is happening now, and to remember on Wikipedia narratives about editors are easy to create, and easier still to perpetuate and grow until they become the accepted reality. Its not easy for an editor to undo such a narrative and its easy for the rest of us, by far, to assume that the narrative, by the time it reaches us, is the right story , rather than to change how we think and look at other people. That's as true in life as it is here. I'm convinced given my experience on the talk page of PR there's much more here than meets the eye and that these editors, specifically Rumiton in this appal, based on the improvements I saw pervious to the ban, deserve a chance to continue to evolve as editors hopefully leaving the past behind. If they don't the article, is under discretionary sanctions. If there is a next time, I hope clear diffs will used to show problems which should save time for everyone.(olive (talk) 18:18, 6 April 2013 (UTC))[reply]

Statement by Rumiton

@Sandstein. I know there is a lot of stuff to follow in this case, or cases. Here is where Blade's first ban on me was lifted, ~~in August~~ on Sept 5, 2012. Should this lifting have been advised on the Noticeboard? Rumiton (talk) 10:00, 6 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Steven Zhang

Hello. My experience with the Prem Rawat articles spans back to 2008, where I have served as a mediator a few times over the years. Like all long-running disputes, this is a difficult one to resolve, and while there has progress over the years it has predominantly slow. Over the years, various involved editors have been topic or site banned, and the editors that have been involved for many years on the article has whittled down. Now, I'm not an admin and I'm not going to tell y'all how to do your job, but my assessment of the situation is this is an intractable dispute that no amount of dispute resolution can resolve. For disputes to be resolved, it is required that all parties have a desire to work together and move forward, and be open to compromise. From my experience, this does not exist, which leaves the article (which is a BLP) unstable, and prone to NPOV and edit warring issues.

I believe that The Blade has taken a precautionary approach in this situation, noting previous issues with editing that took place in the past. Rumiton had been topic banned three times from Prem Rawat in the past, for a period of one week, one year by ArbCom, and then indefinitely by The Blade (though this was lifted in September for 2 months). I agree with the reasoning of The Blade - in the past Rumiton and Momento have supported each other in the edits they made, even when these were in breach of policy. As pointed out, this continued at the time shortly preceding the topic ban, and I agree with his assessment that if Momento was topic banned, it would have been very likely to be picked up in some way by Rumiton. This isn't a sure thing of course, but based on the history of the article this seemed very likely, and thus a topic ban being a reasonable measure.

It is my opinion that the topic ban should not be lifted - of course it is not my decision, but I have a strong feeling that the article will become unstable if topic bans start to be lifted. I'd encourage the uninvolved adminsistrators to review the past dispute resolution attempts for Prem Rawat (below) and understand how intricate this dispute is before deciding how to act. I acknowledge that it is not the role of AE administrators to resolve content disputes, but your actions may make it easier or harder for us to do so, and it's a tough enough job as it is. Please think carefully. Regards, Steven Zhang ^{Help resolve disputes!} 14:15, 6 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Some of the DR attempts include - Wikipedia:Requests for mediation/Prem Rawat all the way to Wikipedia:Requests for mediation/Prem Rawat 6, the MedCab case I took (with the proposals for changes and associated discussions - one page alone amounted to 500k)

Statement by Momento

There is only one issue here and Rumiton has identified it, if vaguely, in his first point. As clearly expressed in ArbCom's "Burden of proof and personal attacks", "the onus is on the sanctioning editor to provide the evidence to prove his claim. (And) failing to do so may constitute a personal attack. The longstanding "No Personal Attacks" policy states that "serious accusations require serious evidence". [51] BotNL offered no evidence at all. BotNL needs to provide "serious evidence""citing supporting diffs where appropriate" of Rumiton's "battleground behaviour over the last several months" prior to his banning. Irrespective of the evidence, or lack of it, a member of a minority "religion/group" like Rumiton will never win a Wikipedia popularity contest and the only way this sanction will be overturned is "with the written authorization of the Committee".Momento (talk) 22:09, 5 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Not that my edits have anything to do with Rumiton but here is a synopsis of the 17 edits I made that caused BotNL to ban Rumiton. [52] You'll note that 17 editors were editing the article at that time and none objected to my proposals or my edits when I made them. The edits are not tendentious or slanted, they were accepted without objection by the 17 editors editing and the 446 editors who have Prem Rawat on their watch list. A direct contradiction of BotNL's above claim that "the article was monopolized before (his) intervention". Momento (talk) 02:44, 6 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by another editor

Statement by uninvolved IRWolfie-

Firstly I will note that significant consensus is required for an overturn: Wikipedia:Arbitration_Committee/Procedures#Reversal_of_enforcement_actions. I will also note that I have never edited an article about Prem Rawat as far as I am aware. Now a point by point look at the appeal:

1. This reason for the appeal does not cite any specifics to the case.

2. Work at other article is entirely irrelevant to the current case.

3. I see no eight SDS categories. What I see is a summary of discretionary sanctions provided in 8 bullet points. Your quote, wherever it is from, is not a quote of WP:AC/DS. No additional input is required for any administrator to impose discretionary sanctions.

4. Subjective, unsubstantiated and irrelevant. It does not mention the specifics of why the topic ban was put in place.

5. Calling olive, an editor who has a keen interest in meditation, and who perhaps works for a meditation related institute (I was unable to confirm or refute this from what I can see on-wiki, see the COIN archives) and who made many edits to the page and about the page, uninvolved is a bit of a stretch of the imagination. I don't hold this particular editors opinion (one of many opinions) there in high regard, and I'm not sure why you do.

6. This is entirely subjective and unsubstantiated. It is also irrelevant, but shows that you haven't moved on.

7. Where was a COI mentioned?

In summary, no substantive reason to do anything. Rather a lot of erroneous points and arguments have been thrown about. IRWolfie- (talk) 20:25, 5 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

@Olive, I am merely noting that you are involved, not uninvolved as initially claimed in the appeal. IRWolfie- (talk) 22:23, 5 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

It is unclear if Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/TimidGuy_ban_appeal#Burden_of_proof_and_personal_attacks is meant to apply to WP:AC/DS (which makes no mention of it, and where the appeal process is markedly different from other appeals). IRWolfie- (talk) 22:29, 5 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Olive, Momento highlighted it as possibly relevant. It does not just apply to TM, but is meant to reflect a general principle of wikipedia. That is why it is in a section called principles. IRWolfie- (talk) 23:30, 5 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Editing a talk page supporting tendentious editing is as disruptive as making the edits, IRWolfie- (talk) 11:41, 6 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

@Richwales: Restoring a comment which was a violation of an editors topic ban seems an extremely unusual step. Doesn't that essentially reward violating the topic ban? IRWolfie- (talk) 00:09, 7 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by uninvolved Keithbob

I saw the note from Rumiton on Littleolive oil's talk page and thought I'd wander over. I've never edited the PR page but I have 19 edits to the talk page as a consequence of two RfC's on that page back in 2010 and 2011. I've been watching the goings on there, off and on, since then and I'm interested in this mass topic ban. There were no diffs given in Blade's initial post explaining Rumiton's topic ban here And when it was brought up at ArbRequestsEnforcement only one diff was provided and that was for an edit made by Momento not by Rumiton Each editor is an individual person and deserves to be treated as such. I look forward to the presentation of evidence in the specific case of Rumiton.-- — Keithbob • Talk • 18:47, 5 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Having been asked now three times, in various venues, for examples of Rumiton's edits that would justify a topic ban, not a single diff has been provided. The rationale for the ban was what Rumiton might do: "Rumiton's total support of them [edits by Momento] indicates to me that he would pick up right where Momento left off" is not a justification for including him in a mass topic ban. I find this unacceptable and feel strongly the ban should be lifted.-- — Keithbob • Talk • 19:09, 6 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Jayen466

Appeal should be granted per Sandstein below. (I used to edit the topic area, but it's been more than a year that I've set foot there.) Andreas JN466 03:05, 7 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion concerning Rumiton

POV pushing on a talkpage is also grounds for action being taken against you. It's disruptive IRWolfie- (talk) 19:12, 6 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Result of the appeal by Rumiton

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

I'm awaiting a statement from TBoTNL but the area was covered by an ArbCom mandated probation at that time and it is within administrator discretion to impose sanctions. The bans were explained by TBoTNL on the article talk page[53] - further clarification could have been sought directly from the imposing sysop. Furthermore Rumiton was also indefinitely banned in April 2012 from this topic area after an AE thread, and was previously banned from it in 2008. I haven't been able to find where the April 2012 ban was lifted - it would be useful if a link to this could be posted--Cailil ^talk 11:41, 5 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I've looked at Rumiton's edits to Prem Rawat over the two months prior to his topic ban, and I'm sorry, but nothing in his edits to this article during this period strike me as substantial enough to support a conclusion that Rumiton was engaging in disruptive or "battleground" behaviour at that time. With all possible respect to others who may have a different view, I'm not a fan of collective punishment, and I'm not inclined to support a major sanction (such as a long-term block or topic ban) on an individual editor based on a gestalt reading of an overall situation. If TBotNL, or others supporting his actions, are aware of specific actions by Rumiton in the few weeks or days prior to mid-November of last year which would justify an indefinite / permanent topic ban, please show us the diffs; otherwise, I would favour a lifting of Rumiton's topic ban now. And even assuming for the sake of argument that the topic ban was originally justified, over four months have passed since then, and I believe it's worth seeing what happens now if he is allowed back in. If Rumiton (and/or any other editors involved in this same incident) do get unbanned, his/their actions are surely going to be subject to increased scrutiny; and if Rumiton does start or resume engaging in disruptive editing, I may well be inclined to block him myself next time. — Rich wales (no relation to Jimbo) 01:30, 6 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

@TBotNL, I read the material you cited at Talk:Prem Rawat#Archive 50. Assuming for the moment that Momento was in fact being tendentious here, this talk page discussion still doesn't establish to my mind that Rumiton was being (or was of a mind to be) similarly tendentious. I'm much more interested in what Rumiton actually did to the article — which, as I said, does not seem to me to rise anywhere near the level of "battleground behaviour". As for Steven Zhang and his agreeing with you, I would really prefer to hear from Steven Zhang directly and understand what he thinks of all this from his own fingers on his keyboard. — Rich wales (no relation to Jimbo) 04:15, 6 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I have posted a request on Steven Zhang's talk page, asking him to come here to this AE request and give us his views directly. — Rich wales (no relation to Jimbo) 04:23, 6 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

@Rumiton, I have some questions to ask you regarding the way you view the condition of the Prem Rawat article and how you would conduct yourself in the event your topic ban were to be lifted.

Briefly, what do you think are the best aspects of the Prem Rawat article as it currently stands?
Briefly, and without going into excessive detail or becoming confrontational, what do you think are the worst aspects of the article as it currently stands?
How do you feel the core Wikipedia content policies (WP:NPOV, WP:NOR, WP:V, and WP:BLP) should guide the content of the Prem Rawat article and related articles? In particular, to what extent do you believe the BLP policy may limit our ability to write a fair, balanced, and neutral article here?
How should the Wikipedia community handle situations where various people have widely differing views on what the Prem Rawat article should contain and how it should be written? Do you believe it is possible for editors working on this article to reach a balanced consensus that is neither a whitewash nor an attack piece? To what extent (if any) do you believe the logjams can be resolved only by banning certain people (possibly you, possibly others, but don't name names here) from working on the article at all?
To what extent (if any) do you feel you are willing to accept content in the Prem Rawat article with which you are not personally comfortable?
Do you believe you are able (and willing) to write in a way that fairly, accurately, and neutrally presents views regarding Prem Rawat with which you personally disagree?

I believe it is important for us, as we consider your ban appeal, to hear and understand your views regarding these questions. Basic, general principles are what I'm hoping to see here. As you write your answers, please don't go into so much lengthy detail that someone might be tempted to impose sanctions against you for violating your current topic ban (which, of course, still remains in effect until and unless it gets lifted). However, as long as you are making a good-faith effort to explain your current views and to give us a good idea of what we should expect to see from you if you do get unbanned, I will actively support your right (per WP:BAN#Exceptions to limited bans) to express yourself on this subject and in this forum, and I trust that others will also give you the benefit of the doubt on this point as long as you are reasonably trying to express yourself in a helpful way.

Since the section of the page in which I am writing this is reserved for comments by uninvolved admins, please put your comments in your section above, along with other editors' statements. — Rich wales (no relation to Jimbo) 18:30, 6 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

@IRWolfie-: You ask a reasonable question (regarding my reinstatement of Momento's comments), but I believe I did the right thing here. First, I waited to do this until after Sandstein (the admin who had blocked Momento and deleted his comments) indicated he would not object. Second, I consider Momento's comments to be relevant to our discussion — to help us put Rumiton's topic ban in its proper context, and to see an important part of the material which apparently prompted TBotNL to impose the topic ban. As for the propriety of restoring edits made in defiance of a ban (assuming that is in fact what Momento did — Sandstein and I will apparently have to continue to "agree to disagree" on this question), the banning policy (WP:BAN) does not demand that such edits should be reverted. And I really don't see what I did as "rewarding" Momento for his misconduct, because the block Sandstein imposed on him is still in effect. Since Momento's comments are back in play, I trust people will read them, check out the link he provided to his synopsis of the edits leading up to the topic ban, and decide for themselves what bearing (if any) this material may have on their view of Rumiton's topic ban. — Rich wales (no relation to Jimbo) 03:33, 7 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Momento's statement above violates their own topic ban. I'm removing the statement and blocking Momento, in enforcement of the ban, for a week. Sandstein 07:13, 6 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I question whether this action really is appropriate under the circumstances. Momento is at least somewhat involved here, since he was topic-banned along with Rumiton. And the information Momento posted (and which has now been deleted) included a link to material that is relevant to our discussion. — Rich wales (no relation to Jimbo) 07:28, 6 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I'll unblock Momento if they want to appeal their own ban rather than discuss the ban of others (see User talk:Sandstein#Blocking Momento?). Sandstein 07:57, 6 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Even if Momento remains blocked, though, I believe the material he posted here prior to the block (including a link to one of his subpages in which the editing activity leading up to the ban are described) is relevant to our discussion, that the deletion of this material was/is not required by Momento's topic ban, and that Momento's comment should be restored to our discussion. — Rich wales (no relation to Jimbo) 17:22, 6 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

If a non-banned editor considers the material useful for the purpose of this discussion, they are welcome to restore it. Sandstein 20:08, 6 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. I've done this. — Rich wales (no relation to Jimbo) 21:14, 6 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

On the merits, based on the explanation given by The Blade of the Northern Lights I consider that the ban of Rumiton was likely made in error. I do not think that discussion page statements in support of tendentious editing merit the same sanction (let alone an indefinite topic ban) as that received by the editor, Momento, who actually made the allegedly tendentious edits. In particular, I'm not aware, in the statements made by The Blade of the Northern Lights in support of the sanction, of seeing a diff of even one allegedly problematic edit by Rumiton.
Nonetheless, for procedural reasons, I'm not yet convinced that I should support removing the ban. As Cailil points out, Rumiton had already been topic-banned in April 2012, also by The Blade of the Northern Lights. That ban is still in force, and no argument has been made here that it was made in error. As such, unless the April ban is also appealed and overturned, appealing and overturning the November ban (at issue here) appears pointless. Sandstein 08:31, 6 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Rumiton points out, above, that The Blade of the Northern Lights did lift the April ban in September. This was not logged on the case page; I've now done so. As such, I tend to be of the view that the appeal should be granted and the ban lifted, unless The Blade of the Northern Lights can more clearly explain, on the basis of specific edits made by Rumiton at the time, why the ban of Rumiton needed to be reinstated in November. Sandstein 10:11, 6 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Agree with Sandstein's block of Momento. Regarding Rumiton, frankly I can see where Steven and TBotNL are coming from. The re-imposition of the April 2012 ban in November for a return to previous bad behaviour (supporting tendentious edits by Momento) makes perfect sense to me - its a failure to abide by unban conditions (which were loosely laid-out in that discussion about the ban being lifted[54]). It should also be noted that these actions were undertaken while a second RFAR was in progress, i.e misbehaviour during RFAR is a very bad idea. That said I think this ban and the lifting of the April ban were sloppy. AE and AC/DS bans need to be clear, unbanning conditions need to be clear also. I don't however see this as grounds for over-turning. My reasoning on that is based on the actual appeal above which fails to take account of any wrong doing in the past regarding this topic nor does it outline how this user will avoid a return to actions that twice led to indefinite topic bans. That said given that 6 months has elapsed and given that no specific edits by Rumiton have been or were the cause of this ban I would be open to a conditional (and clearly explained/defined) unban, on the basis that if these conditions are broken the ban will be re-imposed--Cailil ^talk 16:54, 6 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

[1] The administrator may indicate consent at any time before, during, or after imposition of the restriction.

[2] This criterion does not apply if the original action was imposed as a result of rough consensus at the arbitration enforcement noticeboard, as there would be no single enforcing administrator.

[a]

[b]

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