::I note this is being [[Talk:Main_Page#Alan_Turing|added to OTD]] for tomorrow in any case. Surely one main page mention is enough? [[User:Crispmuncher|Crispmuncher]] ([[User talk:Crispmuncher|talk]]) 18:01, 22 June 2012 (UTC).
::I note this is being [[Talk:Main_Page#Alan_Turing|added to OTD]] for tomorrow in any case. Surely one main page mention is enough? [[User:Crispmuncher|Crispmuncher]] ([[User talk:Crispmuncher|talk]]) 18:01, 22 June 2012 (UTC).
:::It doesn't appear to be on the main page at all - you have to click on June 23 at the bottom of the page to get to another page to see it listed. And are you really suggesting that at least 13 events over the next two days to recognise the centenary is not newsworthy? <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.2em 0.2em 0.1em; class=texhtml">[[User:Richerman|<font color="green">Richerman</font>'']]</span> [[User talk:Richerman|'''(talk)''']] 18:08, 22 June 2012 (UTC)
:::It doesn't appear to be on the main page at all - you have to click on June 23 at the bottom of the page to get to another page to see it listed. And are you really suggesting that at least 13 events over the next two days to recognise the centenary is not newsworthy? <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.2em 0.2em 0.1em; class=texhtml">[[User:Richerman|<font color="green">Richerman</font>'']]</span> [[User talk:Richerman|'''(talk)''']] 18:08, 22 June 2012 (UTC)
*'''Oppose'''- Celebrations, especially anniversaries like these, are usually not newsworthy and do not belong in ITN. '''[[User:Bzweebl|<font color="#D60047">B</font><font color="#F0A000">zw</font><font color="#00A300">ee</font><font color="#0A47FF">bl</font>]]''' ([[User talk:Bzweebl|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Bzweebl|contribs]]) 21:34, 22 June 2012 (UTC)
This candidates page is integrated with the daily pages of Portal:Current events. A light green header appears under each daily section - it includes transcluded Portal:Current events items for that day. You can discuss ITN candidates under the header.
Saulos Chilima
A fire in a residential building in Kuwait City's suburb of Mangaf kills at least fifty people.
Blurbs are one-sentence summaries of the news story.
Altblurbs, labelled alt1, alt2, etc., are alternative suggestions to cover the same story.
A target article, bolded in text, is the focus of the story. Each blurb must have at least one such article, but you may also link non-target articles.
Articles in the Ongoing line describe events getting continuous coverage.
The Recent deaths (RD) line includes any living thing whose death was recently announced. Consensus may decide to create a blurb for a recent death.
All articles linked in the ITN template must pass our standards of review. They should be up-to-date, demonstrate relevance via good sourcing and have at least an acceptable quality.
Nomination steps
Make sure the item you want to nominate has an article that meets our minimum requirements and contains reliable coverage of a current event you want to create a blurb about. We will not post about events described in an article that fails our quality standards.
Find the correct section below for the date of the event (not the date nominated). Do not add sections for new dates manually - a bot does that for us each day at midnight (UTC).
Create a level 4 header with the article name (==== Your article here ====). Add (RD) or (Ongoing) if appropriate.
Then paste the {{ITN candidate}} template with its parameters and fill them in. The news source should be reliable, support your nomination and be in the article. Write your blurb in simple present tense. Below the template, briefly explain why we should post that event. After that, save your edit. Your nomination is ready!
You may add {{ITN note}} to the target article's talk page to let editors know about your nomination.
The better your article's quality, the better it covers the event and the wider its perceived significance (see WP:ITNSIGNIF for details), the better your chances of getting the blurb posted.
When the article is ready, updated and there is consensus to post, you can mark the item as (Ready). Remove that wording if you feel the article fails any of these necessary criteria.
Admins should always separately verify whether these criteria are met before posting blurbs marked (Ready). For more guidance, check WP:ITN/A.
If satisfied, change the header to (Posted).
Where there is no consensus, or the article's quality remains poor, change the header to (Closed) or (Not posted).
Sometimes, editors ask to retract an already-posted nomination because of a fundamental error or because consensus changed. If you feel the community supports this, remove the item and mark the item as (Pulled).
Voicing an opinion on an item
Format your comment to contain "support" or "oppose", and include a rationale for your choice. In particular, address the notability of the event, the quality of the article, and whether it has been updated.
Pick an older item to review near the bottom of this page, before the eligibility runs out and the item scrolls off the page and gets abandoned in the archive, unused and forgotten.
Review an item even if it has already been reviewed by another user. You may be the first to spot a problem, or the first to confirm that an identified problem was fixed. Piling on the list of "support!" votes will help administrators see what is ready to be posted on the Main Page.
Tell about problems in articles if you see them. Be bold and fix them yourself if you know how, or tell others if it's not possible.
Add simple "support!" or "oppose!" votes without including your reasons. Similarly, curt replies such as "who?", "meh", or "duh!" are not helpful. A vote without reasoning means little for us, please elaborate yourself.
Oppose an item just because the event is only relating to a single country, or failing to relate to one. We post a lot of such content, so these comments are generally unproductive.
Accuse other editors of supporting, opposing or nominating due to a personal bias (such as ethnocentrism). We at ITN do not handle conflicts of interest.
Comment on a story without first reading the relevant article(s).
NATO-backed Afghan security forces end a 12-hour siege carried out by Taliban insurgents on the Spozhmai Hotel outside Kabul, killing all five insurgents. (BBC)
Ugandan ethics minister Simon Lokodo signs a government statement saying that it does not discriminate against homosexuals and that they are free to meet. (IOL)
Khilal Mamedov, a prominent Azeri human rights activist and journalist, is arrested on suspicion of drug possession, a move a fellow rights watchdog says is politically motivated. (MSNBC)
Daphne Leef and several other Israeli activists tried to restart the housing protests by re-erecting a tent encampment in the Rothschild Boulevard in Tel-Aviv. The municipality had not given a permit and as a result Leef, along with eleven other activists, were arrested when they resisted the 20 policemen and municipal inspectors who arrived to dismantle the tents. The protesters' tents were confiscated by the police forces as well.(Jerusalem Post)(Ynet)
Nominator's comments: Good Article updated in Centenary commemoration sectionRicherman(talk) 17:43, 22 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Highly influential but historical figure. ITN worthiness has to be assessed on the notability of the events themselves, it can't be inherited from the figure they commemorate. On that basis this is well short. Crispmuncher (talk) 17:54, 22 June 2012 (UTC).[reply]
I note this is being added to OTD for tomorrow in any case. Surely one main page mention is enough? Crispmuncher (talk) 18:01, 22 June 2012 (UTC).[reply]
It doesn't appear to be on the main page at all - you have to click on June 23 at the bottom of the page to get to another page to see it listed. And are you really suggesting that at least 13 events over the next two days to recognise the centenary is not newsworthy? Richerman(talk) 18:08, 22 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose- Celebrations, especially anniversaries like these, are usually not newsworthy and do not belong in ITN. Bzweebl (talk • contribs) 21:34, 22 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
SupportYousaf Raza Gillani's case is still in ITN. So it can be given as an addition to the event.Egeymi (talk) 17:04, 22 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support- Just update the blurb. It's already close to the top, so this will stay up for enough time. Bzweebl (talk • contribs) 21:31, 22 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support - good one for itn,--BabbaQ (talk) 21:32, 22 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Article updated The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
Support Someone's very quick on the draw, 4th quarter just started! Anyways, ITN/R, the most significant championship in professional basketball, and very large media and social attention. Although the blurb should be more like "In basketball, the Miami Heatdefeat the Oklahoma City Thunder in the NBA Finals (Finals MVPX pictured)." so that the Oklahoma City Thunder get some credit for getting this far, they definitely deserve it.<s\> (Nevermind, you got it!) -- Anc516 (talk • cont) 03:25, 22 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support No rational needed, this is the NBA final after all. Oops I just gave a rational. Silly me. --Τασουλα (talk) 03:27, 22 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Is this nomination not showing up in the index for everyone or is it just me? IS this a formatting issue? I added a title+header so it shows up now. Hooray for me. Evidently the user WAS in a hurry to get this up because they missed it out. --Τασουλα (talk) 03:34, 22 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Damn, you beat me to it! -- Anc516 (talk • cont) 03:40, 22 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support: Game 5 will need a text update (after the game finishes, 1.21 to go, Miami 18 point lead as I type). Chocolate Horlicks (talk) 03:46, 22 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Game is Over! Just needs an update and it'll be ready for posting. - Anc516 (talk • cont) 03:47, 22 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment This is unproductive. This already meets notability standards because it's on WP:ITN/R. How about working on the article instead? It doesn't even have the score for crying out loud. -- tariqabjotu 04:00, 22 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I'm working on it, same with other editors I'm sure. Calm down. -- Anc516 (talk • cont) 04:05, 22 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
"Calm down"? I'm sorry, I didn't realize we weren't supposed to talk about the quality of updates here. I thought waiting forty-five minutes to mention the lack of progress on an update would have resulted in less defensiveness from respondents, but I guess I was wrong. -- tariqabjotu 04:13, 22 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The game just ended 30 minutes ago. The MVP announcement came 15 minutes ago. The update is in progress, give it time! -- Anc516 (talk • cont) 04:16, 22 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict × 3) [For the love of God, please use the Preview button.] Three quarters of the game were over by the time it was nominated. Most of an update could have been completed by that time or by the time the game was over. It didn't have to be, but there is no point to adding supports to or nominating an ITN/R item when there's no simultaneous updating. It's not a badge of honor to nominate articles for ITN. It's not about showing how excited one is about the game. And, frankly, the fact that the article didn't have something so basic as the score more than ten minutes after the end of the game is a sign of slow updating. -- tariqabjotu 04:36, 22 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Some of us enjoy actually watching the game, not spending it typing in front of their PC instead of watching the game on TV. The necessary update was given to the article, you posted it, and all is well in the world of ITN and the NBA. As someone who devotes as much time to Wikipedia as you do (I really do appreciate all the work you and the other admins put into Wikipedia, by the way), if the fact that the score of the game wasn't added as fast as you would have liked, you could have added it on your own. -- Anc516 (talk • cont) 04:59, 22 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
It's not the score that's important; it's that it's indicative of the speed of the update. People tend to jump over each other to be the first to update the score for big sporting events (and with the Super Bowl, commentary is sometimes updated in realtime), so when that hasn't been done -- yes, even after just 10-15 minutes -- it bears repeating that the article update is what's important. (Note that last year, the score was in the article before it was nominated here and before the game ended.) You waited until the end of the game, and that's fine, but others did not. And if they just decided during a commercial break to come to Wikipedia to nominate the item or offer up support (perhaps as a way of expressing excitement about the outcome or being first to "call it") and then go back to watching the game, that's really not helpful. It's already on ITN/R, so its notability is already established. It's great that you updated the article, but I don't want to encourage a culture where simply supporting the notability of an item on ITN/R is seen as moving an item a step closer to being on ITN. In some situations, even with such goading, it takes ages for a prose update (beyond just a score) to materialize, and then we get complaints about why the item hasn't been posted yet. To be honest, the fact that you updated it so quickly is a bit remarkable. -- tariqabjotu 05:42, 22 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
U.S. artist LeRoy Neiman, one of the world's most commercially successful contemporary artists and an official painter of five Olympiads famed for his instant renditions of sporting action, dies in New York. (BBC)
A Lucian Freud self-portrait painted on an egg shell is sold at auction to a private collector for £27,000. (BBC)
Air France announces its decision to cut just under 10% of the total workforce (more than 5,000 jobs) by the end of next year in an attempt to restore profitability. (BBC)
Oakland-based group Courage to Resist asks participants in the 42nd annual Pride parade this Sunday to march in celebration of the imprisoned U.S. serviceman Bradley Manning, imprisoned by the U.S. government for alleged leaking of classified information into the public domain. (San Francisco Examiner)
Support per above with expansion and a different blurb. I♦A 08:38, 22 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support - with expansion on the issues that arise from the ABC blog - not yet mentioned in article SatuSuro 09:13, 22 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: The article has now been updated with the latest info and is ready to be posted, IMO. --ThaddeusB (talk) 18:49, 22 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: While I don't disagree that this is ITN, I do have concerns when articles like this are created without considering long-term notability per WP:NEVENT. I'm offering more discussion on the talk page. --MASEM (t) 19:02, 22 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support - updated and ready.--BabbaQ (talk) 20:32, 22 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I've changed the blurb to indicate that the suicide attempt was unsuccessful. LukeSurltc 10:13, 21 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support. A judgement over a former prime minister is notable. Thue (talk) 12:10, 21 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support. Both the verdict and his unsuccessful suicide attempt are certainly notable.Egeymi (talk) 13:57, 21 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comments: The article has orange tags. --BorgQueen (talk) 14:25, 21 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Mmm, and it's BLP of a controversial figure too. Really should be in good shape before being linked from the main page. LukeSurltc 17:48, 21 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support- A good two-pronged blurb for an intriguing story. Bzweebl (talk • contribs) 15:32, 21 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support when ready I agree with the above. Judgment + suicide attempt = ITN worthy. – Muboshgu (talk) 18:02, 21 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support when article is better sourced - Agree that this is a fine candidate for ITN, but also that the article needs work in the sourcing. The tag is merited, in my view. Jusdafax 19:37, 21 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The former Prime Minister of Romania, Adrian Năstase, narrowly survives a suicide attempt by gunshot to the throat following a controversial court decision sentencing him to two years in jail. (BBC)
The Supreme Elections Commission in Egypt announces that the results of the presidential election are not going to be released on Thursday due to complaints by rival candidates. (USA Today)
This is ITN-worthy, but the post should either be associated with the start or end of the conference. As we've missed the former, I suggest we wait until the conclusion. LukeSurltc 22:50, 20 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support if Anything actually substantial comes out of this. There's been loads diddy-daddling (AIN'T I SOOO TERRIBLY POASHHHH) going on with nothing of substance really being put forward, disagreements all around and a general lack of cooperation at such events among countries. If something rather special comes out of this, you have my support. --Τασουλα (talk) 01:04, 21 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose for now as nothing has happened. If something does, it can be discussed on its merits. Hot Stop 03:06, 21 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
support major intl summit that is NOT just state parties...more noable than the ITNR ritualised crap.Lihaas (talk) 13:05, 21 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
support agree with Lihaas. Thue (talk) 13:54, 21 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support- The success of the meeting should not have anything to do with the importance of it. It is also the biggest conference in UN history.[1] However, as FormerIP pointed out last week, the article is updated but of very poor quality. Bzweebl (talk • contribs) 15:27, 21 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I think you just found a new motto for the UN "importance doesn't mean success" Hot Stop 16:02, 21 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. These conferences are huge but they mean less and less. Most Norwegian environmentalist groups abstain from traveling there this time for that very reason, figuring they will do more to protect the global environment by not expending the resources it takes to travel to Rio and back. __meco (talk) 15:33, 21 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
That might be more a comment on how much attention is paid to the groups in question, rather than the importance of the conference. Support posting at end of conference (if only to avoid the self imposed nonsense of declaring it's opening in the present tense). Kevin McE (talk) 20:37, 21 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose What is the impact of this conference on the future of sustainable development? Any commitments from the global players? Any tangible outcome expected, besides the nice time in Rio on other people's money? Crnorizec (talk) 01:29, 22 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Four people have been taken hostage in a bank in the French city of Toulouse by a man claiming to be linked to al-Qaeda. - EugεnS¡m¡on(14) ® 10:35, 20 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
This story is still developing, we can't expect Wikipedia to be a live news tracker on this sort of story. Suggest doing an ITN nomination once the situation is ended. LukeSurltc 12:22, 20 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Even if he claims to be al-Qaeda, is it really that notable? Far greater acts of violence than a four-person hostage-situation happen every day all over the world. It is just not important in the big picture. And al-Qaeda doesn't really exist as a card-carrying organization - everybody can claim to be a member of al-Qaeda. The fact that he only took the hostages when his bank robbery failed strongly suggests that this is just a random maladjusted person, and not a part of an elaborate al-Qaeda plot. Thue (talk) 12:40, 20 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose I fully agree with Thue.Egeymi (talk) 13:40, 20 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Incident now over [2], resolved without loss of life. Signs suggest al-Qaeda link likely a fantasy of a mentally ill man. All in all, a fairly unremarkable hostage situation. Article is also single-sentence, possibly even an AfD candidate. LukeSurltc 15:55, 20 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Striking miners and riot police clash in northern Spain as Mariano Rajoy's austerity drive causes escalating violence. (BBC)
Palestinian footballer Mahmoud Sarsak, on hunger strike over his detention without charge for three years in an Israeli jail, agrees to resume eating if released from captivity. (BBC)
support above: we posted the death of vaclav havel, who was not a current head of state...surely we can post this death. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.98.130.119 (talk) 22:21, 19 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Are you seriously comparing Vaclav Havel to Hosnia Mubarek? The former was a poet, a revolutionary, and a Czech, beside being a prime minister. μηδείς (talk) 04:15, 20 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Are you seriously comparing to a 30 year long head of state and far more notable "in the news"? Hvel was notale no doubt, but his tenure in the news as leader of a country and more last a little over 10 years if that.Lihaas (talk) 10:58, 20 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, this guy has gone the full circle. Air Force Commander, President for 30 years, survived 6 assassination attempts, his government brokered the 2008 Israel Hamas ceasefire, then heavy state corruption, protests, violent crackdown, resignation, trial and humiliation and now this is where he is. In terms of notability I'm afraid Vaclav Havel will be overshadowed by a long shot. But yes, on the issue at hand, we can wait until something clearer emerges. Chocolate Horlicks (talk) 11:45, 20 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose- That's not death. Why post that if death might be soon to follow? Bzweebl (talk • contribs) 22:23, 19 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
If 'dead':
Support Notable person in (recent) history passes our criteria doktorbwordsdeeds 21:57, 19 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
When Mubarak does actually die it should be a pretty straightforward, uncontroversial ITN item. However being in a coma is not the same thing, no item. LukeSurltc 22:13, 19 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support per Doktorbuk.--WaltCip (talk) 22:18, 19 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support- Even though he is not a current head of state, his death would influence current events tremendously, hence fulfilling death criteria 3. However, to even be having this discussion is quite premature, as no news website is even considering that Mubarak may be dead right now. Bzweebl (talk • contribs) 22:23, 19 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support If he has kicked the bucket. As in you know, dead. Like, really really dead. --Τασουλα (talk) 22:27, 19 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose even though the press will squak and flail, in the end it doesn't matter. He was "convicted" by a "court", ousted, who cares if he's dead. Murdered in prison would be ok, but not this. --IP98 (talk) 22:57, 19 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Are you serious? He's a significant historical figure that will forever be etched into the history of Egypt. The fact that he was or soon will be convicted by a court makes him even more notable regardless of your political views, his death is and/or will be of great note to millions in the Arab peninsula and northern Africa. YuMaNuMaContrib 02:20, 20 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support if actually dead, obviously. But oppose if it's anything less than that. Master&Expert (Talk) 00:19, 20 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose He's not quite dead. – Muboshgu (talk) 01:00, 20 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Query I haven't seen this in any source yet. Is he "Ariel Sharon' dead? or "Peter Sellers' dead? Or Monty Python 'dead' dead? If he's as dead as Francisco Franco, I am in support. μηδείς (talk) 02:50, 20 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, I literally laughed out loud on that one. Glad I wasn't drinking milk when I read it. μηδείς (talk) 17:17, 20 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. His gangs have been touting his alleged bad health so many times, and he was reported to be in coma just after the revolution only to emerge just fine. I don't buy it until he is actually in a coffin. --BorgQueen (talk) 03:30, 20 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Given that his condition has become uncertain, I suggest this nomination be withdrawn for renomination at a later date. --Golbez (talk) 13:19, 22 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
No comment on the nom (it sounds important though) but this isn't ITNR since he's head of gov't not head of state this is probably more a comment on the sillyness of ITNR than anything else Hot Stop 12:48, 19 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
wait for repercussions...if it means anything a new PM will come up soon and thats more readilt ITNLihaas (talk) 13:15, 19 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support with an update. A serving PM being stripped of office in this manner is notable without wider repercussions. Much more of an update is needed though. Crispmuncher (talk) 21:01, 19 June 2012 (UTC).[reply]
Support, this is definitely a big deal, for Pakistan and the region. Nsk92 (talk) 01:03, 20 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support: Major development. The top news in the subcontinent now. Chocolate Horlicks (talk) 02:58, 20 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support- This is no small matter for the region and could easily have repercussions, so post now. Article is updated and ready. Bzweebl (talk • contribs) 03:21, 20 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Dramatic developments. Prez nominates textiles minister as new PM. Judge orders arrest of textiles minister a day after nomination.[3]Chocolate Horlicks (talk) 09:07, 21 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Seeking asylum is not ITN worthy. We'd need something more significant. – Muboshgu (talk) 19:31, 19 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose getting asylum maybe. Strong support though if he comments on freedom for Myanmar. --IP98 (talk) 19:38, 19 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Please stop soap-boxing.Lihaas (talk) 11:03, 20 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose, this is nothing. --Golbez (talk) 19:42, 19 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Assange is a scary example of how extendible a justice system can be in a Western democracy (Sweden, now UK). Also, there is allegedly a secret indictment against him in the US. Bradley Manning has been held in a US prison for two years without a verdict for the same case. Now, a fourth state is involved, Ecuador with the likely granting of asylum. So in my view, whatever happens to Assange is very important indication about the level of freedom of information and the workings of the Western legal systems. Crnorizec (talk) 20:03, 19 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
A secret US indictment against him? Citation needed. AlexTiefling (talk) 23:37, 19 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, things that happen to Assange are important. This is not something happening to Assange, this is a request that may or may not be honored by Ecuador. At this point, it's newsworthy, but it's not an ITN-worthy story or update. --Golbez (talk) 20:12, 19 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose unless actually granted, which would be notable enough. Otherwise this whole story is simply descending into soap opera. Crispmuncher (talk) 20:49, 19 June 2012 (UTC).[reply]
Oppose- Surely his request isn't as notable as it actually being granted. Bzweebl (talk • contribs) 20:52, 19 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - This is just another twist in an increasingly tedious soap opera. The entire story is notable and deserves front page coverage; these little incidents do not. doktorbwordsdeeds 20:55, 19 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - fairly trivial on the grand scheme of things, just happens to be occurring to someone internet culture cares a lot about. --LukeSurltc 21:22, 19 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support - when/if he is granted Ecuadorian asylum.--BabbaQ (talk) 21:42, 19 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Close this discussion. It's premature to make a judgement on this, because of how unsure we are of the outcome. Furthermore it seems likely that Ecuador will take days to decide. The discussion of whether to post will be contentious and complicated enough for a posting admin, without the added complication of trying to work out whether early opposers were against posting if Assange is actually granted asylum. —WFC— 22:48, 19 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - Stop feeding the troll. (Assange, not the OP, whose good faith I don't doubt.) As and when he's tried in Sweden, the verdict will be noteworthy. Until then, he can stay off our front page for all I care. AlexTiefling (talk) 23:37, 19 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
A suicide attack kills at least fifteen people and wounds forty people at a Shia funeral in Baquba, north of Baghdad.(BBC)
A bomb explodes near a university bus in the Pakistani city of Quetta killing at least two students and injuring more than 35 others. (AFP via Herald-Sun)
The largest stockholder of the London-based telecommunications firm Vodafone, institutional investor Orbis, ends its opposition to a planned acquisition by Vodafone of Cable & Wireless Worldwide; the deal now seems certain to go through. (Reuters)
International relations
A new round of talks on nuclear power between Iran and six world powers opens in Moscow. (BBC)
Rangers, set to be liquidated, do not appear on the Scottish Premier League fixture list and are instead replaced by a mysterious entity known as "Club 12". (BBC)
British police investigate tennis player David Nalbandian after yesterday's disqualification from the final of the 2012 AEGON Championships over kicking an advertising board into the left shin of a line judge, seriously injuring him; his opponent, Marin Čilić, who was trailing Nalbandian at the time, was awarded the title and Nalbandian lost the prize money he would have received for finishing as runner-up. (BBC)
Article updated The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
Personally I'd prefer we wait for an end-of-summit statement. —Strange Passerby (t × c) 03:34, 19 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support posting now but not at the end. I think we do a better service to WP readers by posting this at the start, so that anyone who becomes interested can follow as it progresses. --IP98 (talk) 11:05, 19 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's comments: Update to the current posting, no nom as a fresh posting. Lihaas (talk) 17:22, 18 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support- Reasonable update to the blurb; we can just move it back up to the top with two bold articles. The article update is almost complete. Bzweebl (talk • contribs) 22:51, 18 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support- Seems sensible to update the item with this development. LukeSurltc 10:50, 19 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support yes, agree that the blurb should be updated. Chocolate Horlicks (talk) 11:18, 19 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support when article sufficiently updated with WFC's blurb (brevity is best). Wouldn't this be a minority topic? LukeSurltc 18:02, 18 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose If there was one 100m race every six months, and the world record was broken more often than not on these occasions, we would not post such records. That is essentially the situation with the TOP500 ranking system. It is of the nature of technology that it improves and supersedes its previous performance. We frequently reject proposals of records simply because they are records, and this is no different. Kevin McE (talk) 18:57, 18 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
As noted by above, this is like a record that is broken maybe every two years (maybe even moore's law 18 months, but...) so it's not a frequent changeover. But importantly it is not a individual record but the fact that numerous agencies came together to fund and construct the computer, something that takes a lot of time and money to complete. To try to compare it to sports achievements is a weak analogy. --MASEM (t) 19:14, 18 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
That's 4 times in 6 meetings of TOP500 ( a little over 2 1/2 years), not "maybe every two years". The proposal is to post the breaking of a record; if the noteworthy achievement were the completion of a collaborative project (a claim totally unsupported by the article), then surely it should have been proposed when in went into use. Kevin McE (talk) 19:42, 18 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
To respond to your original post, this is every bit as big a deal in the tech world as Monaco and the Indy 500 are in the sporting world. Your other point is irrelevant. If this should have been posted a couple of months ago, and is receiving even more coverage now than did then, then it's a stroke of luck that we have waited until now, the optimal time to post. —WFC— 21:27, 18 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
So what newsworthy event occurred on 17 June? Certainly not this machine's "becoming the fastest supercomputer in the world", as it was no faster on that date than the day before. So the news item is that a ranking list that is published twice a year has been published, and for the 4th time in 6 editions of the list, it has a different name at the top of it. Kevin McE (talk) 06:15, 19 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
This is In the news, not Important events. If a story is being picked up by many sources, and represents a milestone of some type, it qualifies for ITN. --MASEM (t) 14:14, 19 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
No it doesn't. The nomination is a press release, not an event, and certainly not news. Yes, it's picked up my many sources, but a new flavour of coffee at Starbucks is guaranteed a dozen spots in tabloids, and we ain't touching them with a bargepole. I understand that this press release isn't even current, making the nomination even less likely to pass doktorbwordsdeeds 15:41, 19 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Technically, the Voyager I story a few days ago was all from a press release by NASA. Yet it gained wide coverage across numerous news sources because those sources felt it was a significant merit of human achievement, even though it wasn't a true "event". Now, I am well aware that press releases can be taken as commercial ads (for example, with Microsoft's introduction of the Surface tablet yesterday, I refuse to accept that that would be considered as an ITN since its basically an ad for MS), but we're talking about something far from a commercial endevour, but as a scientific advancement. And just because its some time after its announcement doesn't mean its not "in the news" if other sources are just covering it now. --MASEM (t) 16:31, 19 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose This is such a no mark, mundane and flippant story. Technological advance in the 21st century as news has to be pretty more impressive than the computer equivalent of a horse race winning by a neck. I would have more sympathy with technological nominations were they not so much naval gazing and masturbatory. On the basis of what has been nominated, explained and considered, there's no way this should go anywhere near the front page doktorbwordsdeeds 20:19, 18 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support I think it is noteworthy news. -Abhishikt (talk) 20:17, 18 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support with a strong preference for my shortened blurb. —WFC— 21:27, 18 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support pending update with WFCs blurb. --IP98 (talk) 22:53, 18 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support- This is not just noteworthy but an important record as well. However, the update is insufficient, so I changed that in the template. Bzweebl (talk • contribs) 22:58, 18 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support: Notable development, decent news coverage. Article needs to be fattened a bit. Chocolate Horlicks (talk) 03:40, 19 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose I don't see any real milestone having been breached here: it doesn't represent any kind of order of magnitude improvement, nor is it revolutionary on a fundamental basis. Which computer is fastest is something that alters rapidly - 15 times in the last 19 years - as part of the regular performance gains seen by computers generally. The "news" element here does not relate to a matter of substance - i.e. it becoming the fastest non-secret computer - but its place in the TOP500 rankings, which are only updated every six months. We have a tendency to post far too many computing stories here as it is: we should be more selective, restricting our coverage to game-changers or genuine milestones. Crispmuncher (talk) 05:16, 19 June 2012 (UTC).[reply]
If its posted let's drop the 'American' label and just call it the IBM Sequoia. Computers don't have passports.--Johnsemlak (talk) 05:21, 19 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose new technology is faster than old technology? Who knew. Hot Stop 12:55, 19 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I don't understand the opposition to this. These are exactly the type of items that the minority topic "technology" is meant for. Not some idiotic apple gadget, but a 16 petaflop super computer. It took years to develop, build and test. It's also not an incremental update of the previous K computer, it's completely different. These high speed computers are used in weather modeling, astrophysics and various geo-political struggles (ie cypher breaking) and have a substantially greater impact than 60 football goals in a season or 100 test cricket centuries. It will probably have a greater impact on the course of human events than the bailout of a worthless bank in a failed state. I thought this would be an easy pass... --IP98 (talk) 14:03, 19 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I think HotStop sums it up pretty well. New technology > Old Technology is not front page news, is it? doktorbwordsdeeds 15:42, 19 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The logic that "new technology is always better than old and therefore not news" basically means any story about science and technology - always advancing on previous work - should be incapable for ITN. And by similar logic, there will always be a winner in an election, or a winner in a sports event, so we should never cover those as well in ITN. We need to get out of this mindset that ITN must be current events. It needs to be about current stories but that need not necessarily be about events from the last week or such. We also have to recognize that when scientific progress is highlighted by non-scientific sources for the layperson that that means that there's more to it than just standard scientific progress. --MASEM (t) 16:35, 19 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
A large number of stories involve some sort of quantitative metric, with the story being that X is larger/smaller/longer/shorter than has been achieved before. A similar example is reporting on the World's Tallest Building. Such stories need to be evaluated on their own merits rather than dismissed out-of-hand. In this case the computing record isn't broken that often, it represents a significant advance, and the machine itself will be used for significant things. LukeSurltc 17:27, 19 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: The IBM Sequoia article will have to be improved significantly before it can be put on Main Page. --BorgQueen (talk) 17:31, 19 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. Incremental. Speciate (talk) 17:10, 20 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. If this was ITN notable, we'd have to report this every six months. Because basicaly every time there is a new TOP500 No. 1. --bender235 (talk) 22:05, 20 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose at the current time, Reuters report does not suggest a greatly significant protest. Worth keeping an eye on in case of escalation. LukeSurltc 15:54, 18 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Oppose, no update whatsoever to article. You made an empty section and expected others to fill it in for you. Bad form. --Golbez (talk) 20:40, 18 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose- However, no need to criticize the nominator. It could be that he didn't have time but wanted a potential updater to have a section and was concerned that the update would be put somewhere else. Or perhaps he was planning on doing it later, but didn't have time at the moment. Give him the benefit of the doubt. Bzweebl (talk • contribs) 22:55, 18 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's comments: Another significant part of the coup-in-progress. A few days ago they dissolved the elected parliament (which we posted ITN). Now as it looks like the military's candidate for president was losing the election, the military have made the president post powerless, seized control over the budget etc., and seized control of the council writing the constitution. Thue (talk) 10:01, 18 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support This is a major coup in progress that is occurring the one of the most important Middle Eastern countries. We may also want to mention the preliminary results of the election. Eiad77 (talk) 10:17, 18 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support Obviously if it is in fact a coup. We should avoid the temptation to post every new development in this. --IP98 (talk) 11:22, 18 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Why shouldn't we post every major development, as long as each individual development is notable enough? We can just update and top any existing blurb; as long as we don't have more than one item about Egypt ITN, I don't see a problem with it. Being up-to-date is a feature, not a problem. Thue (talk) 11:38, 18 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Military appoints X president. X suspends Y. Protestors gather and complain. Z people are killed protesting the suspension of Y by X. A suspends relations with Egypt. etc, etc etc.... --IP98 (talk) 12:28, 18 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
As long as we post only the really groundbreaking moments, then I have no problem with that. I agree that the bar should be somewhat higher than if the event occurred isolated. The alternative is to keep historically important developments off ITN. Thue (talk) 13:03, 18 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Let's see where this coup goes first, if a major protest occurs and is met with a hostile military response then will support stickying this item otherwise posting(when it gets the adequate number of "supports") it as a regular ITN item should be fine - for now. YuMaNuMaContrib 11:51, 18 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Who is calling this a coup? Surely not ITNC alone. That wouldnt merit a posting on its ownLihaas (talk) 12:05, 18 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Well, it fits the texbook definition of a coup - does anybody argue that it isn't a coup? And to quote the linked NYT article: "The military’s charter “really does complete the coup in many obvious ways,” said Nathan Brown, an Egypt expert at George Washington University, in an e-mail message. It brings back martial law and protects the military from any public, presidential or parliamentary scrutiny. And it perpetuates the generals’ dominance of the political system.”". Thue (talk) 12:56, 18 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Strong oppose to nomination. Thue has been around long enough to know what policy is, and there is nothing exceptional about this nom to suggest breaking that policy. We don't post without an update. If Thue feels so strongly about it there is nothing to stop him doing the work needed. As it is official results for the presidential election are not yet known so how the hell can we post this? I would also be hesitant about throwing the word "coup" around as potentially problematic - how can the current government mount a coup against itself? Crispmuncher (talk) 13:16, 18 June 2012 (UTC).[reply]
Comment - Although it quacks like a coup as far as I'm concerned, I'd prefer to avoid enshrining that name in an article title until we've got a bit more hindsight to go on. So I say Wait and post something along the lines of X is declared elected President of Egypt, as the Supreme Council of the Armed Forces restricts the powers of the presidency.AlexTiefling (talk) 13:34, 18 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment The BBC are slightly more qualified with their language. It would be worth taking a look at a wider range of news sources, rather than reflecting the editorial position of a single NYT article. LukeSurltc 14:19, 18 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The coup "editorializing" is just in my description. Note that the actual blurb I suggested doesn't call it a coup. 77.75.161.163 (talk) 14:57, 18 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I am a bit torn on this one, but I am currently leaning towards oppose until election. Bzweebl (talk • contribs) 14:33, 18 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment What's with the "Notability" and "Article and blurb readiness" sub-sub-sections here? Though I'm sure well intentioned, they've just made it difficult to track the chronology of the discussion. Let's not use them again. LukeSurltc 15:57, 18 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed. I have left a note on Thue's talk page. Bzweebl (talk • contribs) 16:18, 18 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support it seems that the Egyptian revolution has been hijacked, and it is a very unfortunate twist of events. Crnorizec (talk) 16:26, 18 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. Coup overstates the action taken by the ruling military council. It is inevitable that opposition groups describe it in non-neutral terms. We must avoid the same mistake. No respected commentators (BBC for example) are referring to a coup. Leaky Caldron 17:27, 18 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
TIME magazine uses the same terms: "it may be one of the smoothest coups in history" [5]. When the military suspends the civilian government and takes over controls of the state and writing of constitution, that's what it is. With tanks on the streets or without them. Crnorizec (talk) 19:31, 18 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Incorporate into presidential results item - the story here is the definition of the office of president (undermining of the office?), and the linked article is Egyptian presidential election, 2012. The discussion of the presidential results needs to include a mention of this action, and by the time of the results declaration we should have sufficient hindsight to address this action and its consequences. Definitely don't use the word 'coup' as it's inherently POV. LukeSurltc 18:08, 18 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support. It certainly looks like a coup, doesn't it? I think this is a good moment to address the situation of the Egyptian revolution having gone completely sour. __meco (talk) 18:42, 18 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. The sources don't call it a coup. Wikipedia relies on sources and doesn't make its own analysis. Period. --RJFF (talk) 19:11, 18 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Note - I've removed the word "coup" from the section title, as we were having a discussion about a phrase that isn't in the proposed blurb. LukeSurltc 21:01, 18 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Sticky This would seem like an obvious sticky if there were reliable updates and sources. I saw Mubarak's Ex-PM claimed to have won the election, but the source was th Sioux City Journal. μηδείς (talk) 02:58, 20 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Second article updated, first needs updating One or both nominated events are listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
Nominator's comments: James Frederick "Webb" Simpson (born August 8, 1985) is an American professional golfer and winner of the 2012 U.S. Open. Article has had 78923 views in the last hour and qualifies per ITNR. I watched live coverage on NBC. See "U.S. Open (golf)" for details on tournament. Jim Furyk and Graeme McDowell also made the news. Add specific entry as needed. 76.2.33.151 (talk) 04:12, 18 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support Once Updated ITN/R and one of the four major tournaments in golf. Definitely ITN worthy. However, both articles lack a prose update. (Updated with the ITN Template prior to posts below, but there was an edit conflict and sent a message to the nominator about using the ITN Template in the future). -- Anc516 (talk • cont) 05:12, 18 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support Sorry Anc515 for the edit conflict! I agree with you - support not least because it's ITN/R. Get the article tided up and all is well doktorbwordsdeeds 05:16, 18 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support per above rationales!HotHat (talk) 06:07, 18 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Usually when we post a natural disaster, the storm had to be particularly noteworthy and I don't see it how this storm qualifies, considering tropical storms are extremely common in that area. Didn't cause a much of an impact in Mexico from the look of things. Secretaccount 07:00, 18 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose and Close- This is hardly uncommon. We can't post every natural disaster in the world. Bzweebl (talk • contribs) 14:43, 18 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. I wouldn't think we posted a hurricane unless it was a category 4 or 5. This storm wasn't even impactful enough to have its name pulled from circulation. --12.41.124.2 (talk) 21:16, 18 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
In addition Hurricane Bud (2012) hit roughly the same area 2 weeks ago and was stronger. One of the three people killed in Carlotta was killed in a car wreck. The other 2 were in the same house. --12.41.124.2 (talk) 21:21, 18 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - Carlotta was not a significant TC landfall and thus i question the motives of the nominator. As for when we should post hurricanes/tropical cyclones, it should only be when there is some really significant impact and not just when its Cat 4/5. I also note that we never know about the pulling (retirement) of the official tropical cyclone names, until a lot later on.Jason Rees (talk) 21:35, 18 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose In agreement with the reasons above. It sounds cold and harsh, but three dead people isn't enough doktorbwordsdeeds 22:58, 18 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Nominators often include links to external websites and other references in discussions on this page. It is usually best to provide such links using the inline URL syntax [http://example.com] rather than using <ref></ref> tags, because that keeps all the relevant information in the same place as the nomination without having to jump to this section.
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