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May 16

The name of Madame de Pompadours fortune teller

I know of the story, that Madame de Pompadour was taken by her mother to a fortune teller at the age of nine (1730), who told her that she would be the mistress of the king. This fortune teller was to have been the most popular of her profession at that time. My question is: who was the this fortune teller, what was her name? Who was the leading fortune teller of Paris in the 1730s? Thank you. --Aciram (talk) 01:00, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

This book, page 22, is the source for Wikipedia's statement. It also does not name the fortune teller, but states that "In her accounts twenty years later, there is an item of six hundred livres" paid to a specific woman. Presumably, if the writer of that source had access to those account books, then the woman must have been named somewhere, though that book doesn't name her. It's a start, tho. --Jayron32 01:06, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

This site names her "Madame le Bon". Neither English Wikipedia nor French Wikipedia has any article on a Madame le Bon. But it's another lead. --Jayron32 01:11, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

This site also names her as such. However, I think the best source, which would perhaps be a good one for a Wikipedia article source, would be this book from 1853. It's in French, and my French is a tad rusty, but on page 200 starts an article called "Livre de dépense de Madame de Pompadour" (basically "accounts of Madame de Pompadour") which describes the event, the payment of 600 livres and the name "Madame le Bon". The author of the article is the "Bibliothécaire de Versailles" or "Librarian of Versailles" which I would take to be a fairly unimpeachable source on the topic. --Jayron32 01:19, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

From there: "The first pension [money given for a purpose] on this list, and the most remarcable one, is that for Mme. Lebon, who predicted her, at age of 9, that one day she would be the maitresse of Louis XV (600 l.) This prediction, which the biographers do not mention, and which, as we see, Mme. de Pompadour always remembered, must have had an important influence on her destiny, and was probably one of the reasons that pushed her mother to go to all means to bring her in contact with Louis XV with the beautiful and young Madame d'Etoilles. The remembrance which Mme. de Pompadour kept for Mme. Lebon became without doubt the reason why she always had a weakness for witches and sorcerers. Mme. Duhausset tells in her Mémoires a story, which prouves this. [Le Rot]"

Service! (give and take). Anybody else hearing this eerie music ..? No - sorry - just tinnitus ... ;-) GEEZER^{nil nisi bene} 06:55, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

You too, eh. -- Jack of Oz ^[Talk] 08:42, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

This story and the source should be added to the wikiarticle, at least in a footnote. Textorus (talk) 13:04, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The cry of the Belfast Telegraph seller (extinct)

When I went to Nottingham to study at the beginning of the 1990s, I was quite startled to find that the guys selling newspapers on the street shouted out nothing more unusual than "papers!" Back home in Belfast, the street sellers of the Belfast Telegraph had an extraordinarily elaborate cry, which I'm given to understand may once have been "sixth - late - Tele", the sixth edition of the paper being the evening one once upon a time, but it had undergone much evolution and mutation as it was passed down over generations, so no two sellers had a cry that was quite the same, and none of them said anything intelligible.

I haven't heard one of these guys in years, and it seems the cry of the Belfast Telegraph seller is now extinct. Does anyone know if any of these cries are recorded and preserved anywhere on the internet? I've tried google and youtube but haven't turned up anything. It would be a shame if the memory of this peculiar phenomenon were consigned to oblivion when the last of those of us who remember it die. --Nicknack009 (talk) 15:37, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Not online, but one may be preserved in a 1972 BBC Northern Ireland TV documentary called In the Name of God. If you look at the synopsis here on the Northern Ireland digitalfilmarchive.net website, there's a 20-second shot of a Belfast Telegraph seller listed at 3.21 into the programme. I don't know if he's shouting, but with a whole 20 seconds of him in the film it's a possibility. The site expains on this page how to contact them,and the various locations you can visit to view material from the archive. - Ka renjc 18:25, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Good one! Getting to Belfast Central Library will not be a problem for m--Nicknack009 (talk) 22:05, 16 May 2013 (UTC)e.[reply]

Somewhat off topic but in a similar vein, Morecambe and Wise did a sketch where the paper seller (Morecambe) was shouting "Morny Stannit". A posh businessman (Wise) has difficulty educating the paper seller to say "Morning Standard", but he eventually gets it. When the businessman is satisfied, he buys the newspaper only to find the name of the paper is "Morny Stannit". Astronaut (talk) 11:51, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Whenever I see the cyclist Ian Stannard's name I remember that sketch... --TammyMoet (talk) 12:27, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Dukes of Oldenburg

When did the two sons of Peter I, Grand Duke of Oldenburg ceased being Princes of Holstein-Gottorp and became Dukes of Oldenburg (not reigning dukes just a courtesy title)? Was it in 1785 when Peter (at the time Prince Peter of Holstein-Gottorp) became regent to Duke William or in 1823 when he succeeded William?--The Emperor's New Spy (talk) 18:55, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

There was never any official title of "Prince (Prinz) of Holstein-Gottorp": both the senior male by primogeniture, cadet males and all females of the patrilineal dynasty held and used the title "Duke/Duchess" not "Prince/Princess", according to L'Allemagne Dynastique's meticulously footnoted, 768 page Tome VII on the Oldenburgs. That source also notes discontinuation of use of the "Schleswig" prefix (as in "Duke of Schleswig-Holstein-Gottorp") from the end of the Nordic War in 1721, when the Duke ceded to his senior kinsman, the King of Denmark, possession of the duchy of Schleswig and moved his capital from Gottorp to Kiel in Holstein. This branch did not formally renounce its claim to Schleswig until Catherine the Great did so on behalf of her son, Tsarevich Paul Petrovich Romanov in his capacity as Duke of Holstein-Gottorp, in 1769 (confirmed 1773). Catherine completed the exchange of what was left of Holstein-Gottorp for the new duchy of Oldenburg (which combined the counties of Oldenburg and Delmenhorst, inherited from an extinct branch of junior Oldenburgs) on 1 August 1773, effective as of 16 November 1773. She and Paul immediately (14 December 1773) donated Oldenburg to the so-called "episcopal branch" of the family, which was an agnatic cadet branch of the Holstein-Gottorps who held the Princely Bishopric of Lubeck. On 29 December 1774 Emperor Joseph II recognized the transfer and erected Oldenburg-Delmenhorst into the Duchy of Oldenburg, investing Duke Friedrich August, Prince Bishop of Lubeck with the title on 22 March 1777. From that date forward, members of that branch of the Holstein-Gottorps all became Dukes of Oldenburg, the head of the line becoming Grand Duke by grace of the Congress of Vienna in 1815. Henceforth the "Holstein-Gottorp" title was borne as a subsidiary title both by the Romanov Emperors of Russia and by the Grand Dukes of Oldenburg. In the obscure dispute over current use of "Duke of Holstein-Gottorp" as a title, remember two facts: 1. the title never descended according to primogeniture, but to all agnates, and 2. The original duchy was an altfürstliche state of the Holy Roman Empire, which means that it was a semi-sovereign state whose transmission had to abide by Imperial laws -- and all of the altfurstliche dynasties were required by German Princely Law (Privatfürstenrecht) to comply with Ebenburtigkeit marital standards, both in the Holy Roman Empire and the subsequent German Confederation, until abolished in 1918.FactStraight (talk) 20:52, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Wow. 109.99.71.97 (talk) 15:23, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

May 17

Accuarcy of a story about anti-Vietnam War protest at White House

There is a quite popular story in Chinese forums saying that a man named Moseti (or pronounced similar to that) protested near White House during the Vietnam War to illustrate that "I can not change this country, but the country can not change me as well." I find it hard to believe, because some variations of this story even say that he did it every day. And I tried to search for some English sources about it but found nothing. Therefore, is this story an exaggeration of a real one? Or a hoax made up by someone? --Make cat 09:04, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Probably A. J. Muste. See the penultimate paragraph under "Return to pacifism" in the article. Deor (talk) 11:09, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

What's so difficult to believe here? Lots of one-man protesters abound, for the most diverse reasons, for a pretty long time period. OsmanRF34 (talk) 11:18, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Yes. For one long-term protest at the White House, see White House Peace Vigil, in which Concepcion Picciotto has been protesting continuously for nearly 32 years. Deor (talk) 11:24, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your help. --Make cat 13:49, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Our article on Muste says he was "critical of communism" after 1936, and just acting as a Christian, but his activities after 1936, just as those before 1936, sound like a model of what J. Edgar Hoover or the House Unamerican Activities Committee would view as typical Communist or Fellow-traveller actions, such as a friendly visit to Ho Chi Minh during the Vietnam War. Is there a released FBI file on him, and do reliable sources agree he was really opposed to Communism? Edison (talk) 19:31, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I hope that you aren't suggesting that we'd take a Hoover-era FBI file as a reliable source on such matters. AndyTheGrump (talk) 19:41, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I'm wondering if there are other views from the US government, mainstream news magazines, or other sources which run counter to the present blanket assertion that the rather red-acting man was opposed to communism, while many of his activities coincided with those of the CPUSA and other communist organizations and front groups. (Looks like a duck, walks like a duck quacks like a duck, but said he was opposed to ducks, so he clearly wasn't a duck). The FBI and Congress are probably as balanced a source as books by admirers and followers of Muste. Edison (talk) 19:53, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Global Employment in Driving?

Are there any estimates for the number of people employed as drivers in the US, UK or preferably globally? This would include all taxi drivers, bus drivers, UPS delivery men, private limo, etc. This exclude those for whom driving is an essential element but not the main purpose of their jobs, such as travelling sales representatives, Mobile/cell phone antenna riggers/repairers, etc. --213.86.80.228 (talk) 09:42, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Presumably truck drivers as well, which you did not mention. This page [1] gives an unsourced figure of 3.5 million truck drivers in the USA, so that's a start. --Viennese Waltz 09:47, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Truck driving is more common in the US, that has lots of manufacturing industry (still), lots of miles, but no good railroad network, than in other places. So, expect the global proportional number to be much lower than in the US. OsmanRF34 (talk) 10:35, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

They all will lose their jobs, when the time is ready for the driverless vehicle. Humans are getting deprecated. OsmanRF34 (talk) 13:05, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

All? The OP included courier delivery agents. You'd need either a change in operating method, e.g. the truck or van pulling up and honking or phoning and the person collecting the parcel themselves, or an additional robotic delivery agent besides simply a driverless vehicle. And the former would still require either some internal robotic system to segregate the parcel or relying on people not stealing a parcel that doesn't belong to them (combined with recording and I guess RFID and reporting anyone who does try to do so). Note that in addition, school bus drivers in a number of places are expecting to do more than simply drive the bus safely, in particular keep an eye out on the children as they leave the bus sometimes including after they leave, and as they enter. General bus drivers also have to do this to some extent, there's generally less monitoring needed, but they do need to know when all people waiting to board or exit have done so, which may include disabled people and others with mobility issues e.g. some elderly people. And they should usually not take too long to do so. (It's going to get rather annoying if the bus keeps taking 30 seconds to realise everyone has boarded/left at every stop.) General bus drivers also often have to be able to interpret signals from people outside the bus which indicate they wish to board, signals can be unclear although education would reduce the problem. Taxi drivers and to a much lesser extent bus drivers are also expected to be able to communicate with passengers about their destinations. While some of these could potentially be replaced by a touch screen or other input device and computer, it would have to be rather good to be as effective at least for the taxi driver who would likely have to deal with people uncertain of precisely where they want to go, tourists with poor command of the language, etc. Similarly voice recognition on a GPS system may work well for someone who knows the precise address and doesn't mind repeating it a few times if necessary, whether it can replicate a decent taxi driver is another question. (For all their glory, systems like Siri etc are still quite far from the AIs promised in all those scifi shows.) It could of course be that the alternative works well enough for most people, and is cheaper enough that the alternative dies out anyway. Nil Einne (talk) 15:45, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

When the railroads get built... and the panama canal is finished, that'll be the end of us all. Shadowjams (talk) 16:48, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Busses that don't interpret signals and collect tolls will soon be supplanted by this new subway system I've been hearing about. Get off my lawn! Shadowjams (talk) 16:51, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

As for an actual answer to the OPs question, the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics [2] has some fantastic stats on this question, as does the Department of Labor. Will robots replace human drivers anytime soon? No. Will you get a friendly cabby anytime soon? Consult a magic 8 ball. Shadowjams (talk) 16:57, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Public school is different from private school but how?

dear wikipedia i know that public schools are different from private school but i want to know in what ways are they different.not only school i also want to know about public facilities difference from private facility. — Preceding unsigned comment added by The wizkid of earth (talk • contribs) 16:00, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Can you clarify what country you're talking about, and what tier of education you mean by "school"? These terms can have quite different meanings in different places. State school, Public school (United Kingdom), Independent school, Public university and Private university are all articles whose subject matter could be related to your question, depending on the context. - Ka renjc 16:17, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

In the UK at least, despite the name, a public school usually refers one of several old privately run schools, which charge for education. A private school is an Independent school, that exists without government money. So a public school is in fact "private" — and a private school may refer to a public school, but not necessarily so. Hope that isn't too confusing! -- Hillbillyholiday ^talk 16:18, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

In the USA public schools are funded with local taxpayer dollars and also federal funds with the obligation to adhere to federal and state education and integration standards. Private Schools are any not financed with taxpayer funds.^{Market St.⧏}_{⧐ Diamond Way} 20:35, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

In most of the UK the term "public school" refers to a subset of private/feepaying schools, though beyond now normally taking pupils from age 13 and up (a tier that doesn't have a standard name) there's huge disagreement over just which schools are and aren't correctly termed "public schools". In Scotland the term "public school" traditionally meant a state school but the term has largely fallen away in use. Confusingly some of the private schools in Scotland follow traditions elsewhere in the UK and do call themselves "public schools". Timrollpickering (talk) 13:40, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Record Regents

Who has served the most monarchs as regent in history?--The Emperor's New Spy (talk) 16:25, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The number must be at least three; Empress Chu Suanzi, Brunhilda of Austrasia and Catherine de' Medici each exercised regency powers during the reigns of three kings/emperors each. 184.147.137.171 (talk) 18:50, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hi! question on relative of Jeffrey Dahmer

I came here to ask whether or not police inquired her possible involvement in her grandson's murders. I think it as impossible for a person to not notice three murders being committed in her own house and have no idea on what was going on. I am not accusing Dahmer's grandmother, she's dead since 1992 but just it's a curiosity. Monteithh (talk) 20:44, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

This discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

close unsupported speculation regarding non-notable third party

It's reasonable to assume that (1) it would not have occurred to her that her grandson was committing murders; and (2) he would have taken steps to keep her from suspecting. Also, you don't know what her health was. Maybe hard of hearing, no sense of smell, etc. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 02:18, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

We really don't need to be speculating here, see talk. μηδείς (talk) 02:22, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia doesn't comment on innocent parties whose only notability would be through the crime of another, see WP:CRIME. μηδείς (talk) 02:18, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Myra Hindley's grandmother was in the house during the courtship of Ian Brady and Myra Hindley (see Moors murders). Jonathan Goodman wrote of her that she was "a woman in her seventies whose lack of interest, let alone inquisitiveness, in what went on under her own roof was, to say the least of it, unusual. Night after night the grandmother sat in the kitchen, the television turned on, her mind turned off, while upstairs two sane people conditioned themselves to commit insane acts; she ignored even the racket of marching songs and nazi speeches" ('The Trial of Ian Brady and Myra Hindley', David & Charles, 1973, p. 15.) Later, at the time of the murder of Edward Evans, she was in the upstairs front room immediately above the scene of the murder but still said nothing. Sam Blacketer (talk) 15:10, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

After three days and a talk page debate we still have no sources. μηδείς (talk) 03:45, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

HMS Illustrious (87) Officers

I'm looking for information on the crew complement, specifically bridge officers, of the Royal Navy aircraft carrier HMS Illustrious while it was stationed in the Mediterranean. Time-wise, I'm interested in the period when Denis William Boyd was in command.2600:E00F:4004:13:0:0:0:38 (talk) 21:34, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

What do you mean — simply how many officers and men it carried, or are you hoping to find a list of them by name, or something else? Presumably you'd be able to get the raw numbers from Jane's Fighting Ships, but it definitely wouldn't include a list of the names. Nyttend (talk) 02:05, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Whoops, should have clarified. I'm looking for a list of names. At the very least, just the name of Boyd's second-in-command, or one or two other bridge officers. 2600:E00F:4004:13:0:0:0:36 (talk) 02:24, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know what a bridge officer is, but did find some potential names for you.

Second-in-command might have been Seymour Tuck; see the caption in [3], page 34. "Safe in Alexandria". It's a shot of all the officers of the Illustrious but only names two - Boyd and one other: "he was succeeded in command by Captain Tuck (at his left)."
Seaman (?) Jeffrey Dawson.
Pilot (?) AWF 'Alfie' Sutton (see also his obituary.)
(Pilot?) Lieutenant Commander M. W. Williamson; also mentioned in our article Battle of Taranto.
That site for Williamson mentioned another (flying?) officer, JW Hale. 184.147.137.171 (talk) 03:46, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, excellent! Those should do nicely, thanks!2600:E00F:4004:11:0:0:0:3D (talk) 14:24, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

K Williamson RN, (Lt-Cdr) was the Commanding Officer of 815 Naval Air Squadron who led the Toranto attack. Awarded the DSO. "Taken POW, after being shot down during strike on Taranto, 11.11.1940 (815 sqdn, HMS Illustrious)"[4]

819 Naval Air Squadron was commanded by Lt-Cdr J. W. Hale.[5]

A full list of aircrew at Taranto is shown on this page. It also mentions a US Navy observer, Lt. Cdr. Opie, who was attached to Illustrious at the time.

Rear Admiral Lumley Lyster was in command of the whole operation from Illustrious. The Commander (Flying) - the officer in charge of all air operations in a carrier - was James Robertson. [6] Alansplodge (talk) 17:48, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

middle east politics in the 1800s

what was the middle east like in the 1800s please? not homework just intersted. --178.48.114.143 (talk) 21:39, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Most of that area would have been within the Ottoman Empire. That would be a good place for you to start reading. Rojomoke (talk) 21:47, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Outside of the interior of the Arabian Peninsula, it was basically all Ottoman Empire, depending on your definition of the "Middle East", if you consider Iran to be the Middle East as well, that portion was part of Qajar Persia. Most of the Arabian Peninsula wasn't really part of a state society, it was nominally part of a series of independent petty Arabic monarchies, but it was basically unorganized territory occupied by some Bedouins. Start at the Emirate of Diriyah and follow the trail forward through various successor states to get the history of what is now Saudi Arabia. The rest of the middle east would have been governed by the internal politics of the Ottoman Empire, so articles like State organisation of the Ottoman Empire and Vassal and tributary states of the Ottoman Empire and Administrative divisions of the Ottoman Empire. --Jayron32 00:16, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

1800-1899 is a rather massive expanse of time, consider England in 1800 and then in 1899 or the United States being a backward, in debt, 3rd world nation of 1800 and then a world power spanning a continent in 1899 having gone through the wars of 1812, Mexican-American and Civil etc. Although Jayron32 and Rojomoke have answered this well I'd just point out that in the 1880s and 1890s you also had heavy European colonization and "spheres of influence" also don't forget about the politics of the Suez Canal (although that is bordering the region it did have a sort of domino effect on parts of the region) going back to Napoleon.^{Market St.⧏}_{⧐ Diamond Way} 06:09, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

May 18

Catholic bishops and cathedrals

This is going to be a convoluted question, largely because I don't know enough to ask an intelligent question.

First off, I've heard of cathedral parishes. Are the parishioners just average Catholics who hear Mass at the cathedral instead of at a non-cathedral church? Or is there something special about the parish, e.g. you somehow have to "qualify" to be a member there in a way that you don't have to "qualify" to be a member of a normal parish? Perhaps the membership is composed of the priests from across the diocese?
What responsibilities does a bishop have for a cathedral and its parish? Are they basically the same as a typical priest's responsibilities for his parish? Bishop (Catholicism) doesn't mention the issue, only mentioning the bishop's responsibilities for the entire diocese. I'm also unclear how a cathedral's Rector (ecclesiastical) fits in.
Do bishops typically work out of an office at the cathedral, or do they spend most of their time visiting the various parishes to keep up to date on what's going on? Or do they decide on their own schedules, making this question impossible to answer?
When a diocese has two cathedrals, does the bishop have equal responsibilities for both, or will one be more important than the other, or is this question unanswerable because the situation varies from diocese to diocese? Co-cathedral doesn't specify whether a building designated "Co-Cathedral" is equal or subsidiary to a building designated "Cathedral".

Perhaps a little context will help; all this grows out of seeing a "Reserved for the Bishop" sign in a parking spot at St. Joseph's, the cathedral for the Diocese of Wheeling-Charleston. It left me wondering what he was supposed to do there versus what he had to do at the Charleston co-cathedral and at the other parishes. Nyttend (talk) 01:31, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Cathedral comes from the Greek word kathedra which literal means "seat", and through Latin and French is the source of the English word "chair". A cathedral is essentially a church with a little more grandeur suiting a bishop, who is the head of a diocese. Bishoprics can move and new cathedrals be built; it doesn't require the old one to be destroyed. As for parish, a Catholic is supposed to attend and support his geographically closest parish church. That may end up being a cathedral. My youngest sister ended up being baptized in a Roman Catholic church due to geography, along with some other complications, even though we were Byzantine Catholic. Only later did the bishop comment he would have happily had her baptized in a Byzantine church had he known. μηδείς (talk) 02:14, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I see that you're answering my #1; thank you. I don't see answers to #2-#4; do I misunderstand you, or did you not intend to answer them? Not trying to complain; I'm still a bit confused by the situation. Nyttend (talk) 05:25, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Does Bishop (Catholicism)#Duties help any? Diocesan bishops (those appointed to head a Diocese) are expected to say Mass every week, in addition to that, they are also the chief administrator of the Diocese, and have similar duties to other administrators in any endeavor: staffing all of the parishes with pastoral priests, maintaining the finances for the diocese, etc. Bishops also preside over certain sacraments, such as Holy Orders and Confirmation. --Jayron32 05:36, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

That's the problem — I read it before asking this question. I was left wondering if they normally said Mass at the cathedral (and in the case of double dioceses like Wheeling-Charleston, both or just one?) or if they would rotate around parishes, or if both were valid options; and also I was left uncertain of how they were required (or if any requirements existed) to perform the other duties. Nyttend (talk) 05:58, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry. As for #2 and #3, The cathedral is just the church itself, the bishop will have a rectory (or its equivalent, that's what they call it for parish priests) which serves as an office and usually has a very close by or attached residence. Jayron pretty much answered #3. The bishop sets his own schedule and can communicate, often by letter, both with the priests and the parishoners in his diocese directly. When I attended church I remember there being a letter about yearly and on special occasions or about special issues from the bishop. When The Life of Brian came out, a letter from Archbishop Krol of Philadelphia was read (in the role of bishop) forbidding Catholics from viewing it. As for his duties, he could be thought of as the district manager of a corporate business (he literally is this) watching over the branch offices as he saw fit. μηδείς (talk) 06:00, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hey, no need to apologise! Didn't realise that rectories were often offices; I know that lots of Protestant ministers (including many in my denomination) have offices at the church (and many of the exceptions are pastors of tiny congregations who need to save money everywhere possible, including by working at home), so I simply figured that the church would have rooms where priests would do their paperwork and their studying and meet with parishioners. I understand much better now; "the bishop sets his own schedule" makes the situation substantially simpler. I guess that I wasn't aware of the extent of bishops' autonomy; instead of being district managers, I imagined them as being comparable to mid-level bureaucrats who always have certain procedures to follow and lack the right to make important decisions independently. Does that answer my #4 too, i.e. the bishop can decide which of the two cathedrals is more important, or he can make them equal? Nyttend (talk) 06:12, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I won't comment on #4 since I have no familiarity with the issue. But what is important to keep in mind is that the bureaucracy is not ceremonial or sacramental. There are certain things you have to do during mass to do it right. But the administration of dioceses is organic and inherently different and follow what in the corporate world are called "local practices" (see alansplodge's comment below for difference between UK and US). As an example, in my family's local parish, there was originally a single small building called the rectory with an office, a kitchen, and rooms for the monsignor and the second parish priest. Over time the parish expanded, separate residences were built for the serving and retired priests, and the "rectory" became just an office. None of this has any religious significance, however, so it's just a matter of administrative decisions based on supply and demand. μηδείς (talk) 19:54, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

My understanding is that the cathedral itself is usually managed by a team of clergy called the Cathedral chapter which is led by a Provost and supported by an administrator called the Dean. However, that last link says that in the US, there are no chapters, and cathedrals are directly managed by a Rector. The Bishop isn't involved with the day-to-day running of his cathedral, and may only lead the worship there on special occasions and major feast days. Alansplodge (talk) 17:04, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Guy Medal in silver 1915

Who got the Guy Medal in silver in 1915

Sydney Chapman (economist) or Sydney Chapman (mathematician)?

Did anyone of the below got the Guy Medal. None of their wikipedia page have any mention of Guy Medal. Neither is there any clue on the internet.

David Forbes Hendry - 1986 bronze
Joseph Shield Nicholson - 1918 silver
Ralph George Hawtrey - 1936 silver

Any help appreciated. Solomon7968 (talk) 09:37, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I can't find anything explicit on Google, but this biography of Chapman the Maths says that after a spell collecting data at the Royal Observatory, he returned to lecture at Cambridge in 1914, which doesn't sound like anything you'd win a stats prize for. He was also a conscientious objector, which in 1915, would have made him the target of public vilification. Chapman the Economy was meanwhile busy putting the nation's industries onto a war footing and seems far more likely to be gathering laurels, given the patriotic fervour in the Britain of 1915. Alansplodge (talk) 09:58, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Also (circumstantial, I know), the economist definitely had a J to match the "SJ Chapman" on the Royal Society's list whereas I can't see the mathematician ever used a middle initial. What about asking at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Resource_Exchange whether someone with a Times subscription can search their archive for 1915 for an announcement? 184.147.137.171 (talk) 10:21, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Couldnt find anything in the Times about the medal in 1915 but a paper by Professor S. J. Chapman, MA and Mr David Kemp was read to the society in January 1915 on "The War and the Textile Industries", this would point to Sydney Chapman (economist) being the receipent. MilborneOne (talk) 14:54, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Professor J Shield Nicholson and Mr R G Hawtrey are in the RSS's list of previous silver winners, and Professor D F Hendry in the bronze list. Clarityfiend (talk) 13:26, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

According to Who Was Who, Sydney John Chapman (b. 1871) was a Guy Silver Medallist (no year given). He was also Vice-President of the Royal Statistical Society in 1916. The other one definitely had no middle name. Andrew Gray (talk) 23:44, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hipsters

Which countries have the highest and lowest proportions of hipsters as a percentage of the overall population? The definition is as per the linked article i.e. "associated with independent music, a varied non-mainstream fashion sensibility, liberal or independent political views, alternative spirituality or atheism/agnosticism, and alternative lifestyles." --Viennese Waltz 10:17, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The concept is so nebulous that it's probably impossible to say. Adam Bishop (talk) 13:10, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Idle (though infallible) speculation: The Vatican would be fairly low on the list. --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 13:22, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Count the number of goatees? -- AnonMoos (talk) 14:38, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Given my experience part of the hipster m.o. is that they do not admit that the existence of other "hipsters" and certainly don't catalog their numbers, as Walter Sobchak might say if seeing that behavior "Hippsstteerr . . . very un-hipster". And if even hipsters won't count their population how are us squares supposed to? ^{Market St.⧏}_{⧐ Diamond Way} 15:55, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Didn't we have this question not very long ago? -- Jack of Oz ^[Talk] 21:26, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Before it was cool, perhaps? --Nicknack009 (talk) 11:41, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

No, about a month ago, from memory. -- Jack of Oz ^[Talk] 13:18, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I would hazard to guess that the country with the highest proportion of hipsters would probably be Luxembourg. It is a fairly liberal country politically... well plugged into the trends in broader European culture. However, because its total population is small, even a small number of hipsters will be a large percentage of total population. Blueboar (talk) 14:09, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

By (nebulous) definition, this is an urban, indeed principally metropolitan, subculture. Luxembourg doesn't have a city big enough to come even close to being a metropolis. (Luxembourg City has a population of between 100,000 and 160,000 depending on how you define the city limits). Valiantis (talk) 23:25, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

As the article in question refers almost exclusively to the US and indeed primarily to the New York area (there's also a reference to Vancouver) then I'd suggest the only realistic answer is the US. "Hipster" is an English term. The interwiki links all direct to "hipster" as an English loan word and the text in those that I can read refers mainly to the US - and New York specifically - as the stomping ground of such folk. (The Italian interwiki also identifies Hoxton and Shoreditch in London, Prenzlauer Berg in Berlin, Belleville, Paris, and Bologna in Italy). I'm mainly familiar with the term from US TV etc. where it seems to be well-understood enough to be used in mainstream comedy shows (off the top of my head both 2 Broke Girls and Happy Endings regularly poke fun at hipsters and use the term when doing so). There does seem to be some currency for the term in the UK in print and web media, but I can't think of comparable UK TV programmes which use the term as a readily understandable type. Valiantis (talk) 23:25, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

To add to the confusion, most of the images are of Chicago. Sindonwe (talk) 00:40, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Is there even any evidence that hipsters/hipsterism exists outside the US as a defined subculture/concept? Evanh2008 ^{(talk|contribs)} 00:49, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

World War I is missing: which one should it go in, and why?

World War I is missing from both of the above articles. Which one does it belong in, and why? The Transhumanist 19:00, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

A good question. Early modern warfare says that "the late 18th to early 19th centuries... mark the end of this era", while Modern warfare on the other hand states that "Modern warfare, although present in every historical period of military history, is generally used to refer to the concepts, methods and technologies that have come into use during and after the Second World War and the Korean War.[citation needed]". I think that we can assume that whatever else is wrong, the suggestion that "modern warfare" was "present in every historical period of military history" is either entirely nuts, or meaningless. On the other hand, there isn't actually a requirement that Wikipedia articles be logically consistent with each other. I suspect that this may be a question for military historians to answer: is there an agreed definition of when 'early modern warfare' began, and what period followed it? Perhaps there is a 'mid-modern warfare' period? Or maybe historians don't have any agreed common definition (which wouldn't be that surprising). Whatever the answer is, we should beware of redefining the scope of one article or the other without proper sourcing. It needs proper research. AndyTheGrump (talk) 19:25, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I don't have a source, but American history commentary usually describes the Civil War 1861-1865 as the turning point, which began with soldiers marching in formation and ended with ironclad armored hulls, machine guns and submarines (and concentration camps and the "total war" of Sherman's March). WWI had a similar trajectory, with soldiers in formation and bright uniforms giving way to gas, guns, trenches and tanks. μηδείς (talk) 19:36, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Sherman's March to the Sea is an example of the "scorched earth" military strategy. "Total war" means commitment of an entire economy to a war. The Transhumanist 19:46, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, transhumanist. μηδείς (talk) 19:57, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Our "history of war" template (inserted above on the right) classifies WWI as part of the Industrial warfare era, which lies between the Early Modern (aka "gunpowder") and Modern eras. Looie496 (talk) 19:41, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you. This solves my problem. I've treated it (in Wikipedia:WikiProject Outlines/Drafts/Outline of World War I#Nature of World War I) as follows:

Industrial warfare
- Includes aspects of both Early modern warfare and modern warfare

There is no doubt that World War I is not "early modern warfare." But as Looie points out there are finer grades that you can classify it as opposed to just calling it "modern." (In general, "early modern" usually means 16th-early 19th centuries, though in some contexts it can go earlier or later.) --Mr.98 (talk) 20:01, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The guys at WP:MILHIST might be able to help out here. - Cucumber Mike (talk) 20:03, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I've left them a note to invite them over. - Cucumber Mike (talk) 20:14, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I think the confusion is a result of the differences between how historians use the word "modern" and how its used in the vernacular. Generally speaking, the terms line up with the early modern and modern periods in European history. A common delineator between the two is the Revolutionary/Napoleonic period (so the 1797-1815). The periodization is especially coincidental, owing to the major changes in warfare (for instance, the levee en masse - mass conscription, the advent of total war, etc.) the marked a significant break from the Frederickian style limited war of the early modern period, and led directly to the industrialized warfare of the 20th century.

So to answer the original question, World War I is firmly in the "modern" era. I hope that helps. Parsecboy (talk) 21:23, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I agree - World War I is often referred to as the first truly modern war in that all particpants were industrialized, and the fighting took place on land, sea and air and involved complex strategies, logistical arrangements and communications. Wars such as the American Civil War are seen as being precursors to WW1. That all said, there wasn't a clear delineation. Nick-D (talk) 23:29, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Do we have an article on how stupid the word modern is as an adjective for a historical period, one that will obviously eventually not be all that modern. What's the next period in warfare? Post-modern? And then...? — Preceding unsigned comment added by HiLo48 (talk • contribs)

I could just imagine a teenager in 1,000 years buying Call of Duty: Modern Warfare and sitting down in front of his virtual console and thinking, "Hang on....this is ancient warfare......" KägeTorä - (影虎) (TALK) 09:09, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Generally the "modern period" is the 20th century to the present. Yes, over time that becomes increasingly long, but people of the future will just rename stuff. Nobody called themselves "early modern", or even "medieval," either. This are terms always applied retrospectively. That they shift over time does not preclude their usefulness. --Mr.98 (talk) 17:29, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

No, what you're referring to is the contemporary period (and it again highlights the difference between how "modern" is used by historians and by the general public). The modern period (as historians define it) goes back to the 16th century (including the early modern period). Parsecboy (talk) 22:45, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Pocky

Do the majority of Japanese people actually eat Pocky on a regular basis? I personally suspect that it's not as often as Japanophiles in the west think that they do and that it's mostly a stereotype/misunderstanding, but does anyone know for sure? --87.112.113.5 (talk) 19:55, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I lived in Japan for ten years, and I can say they are very common at parties, or as snacks when going on a journey somewhere. However, they are not commonly eaten at home or in the office (at least not in my house or in my workplaces), but they may be given as a snack for visitors to a house. KägeTorä - (影虎) (TALK) 09:00, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

May 19

Ronaldsway culture

would like information / article on Ronaldsway culture that existed on the isle of mann thank you :) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.116.76.87 (talk) 03:39, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

According to the Wikipedia article Ronaldsway there's an airport and an historical battleground there. It also seems to be close to Ballasalla and Castletown, both of which seem to be a bit more "happening" than Ronaldsway. --Jayron32 03:50, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I've amended your header to something meaningful, since virtually all questions we get here stem from a lack of information. -- Jack of Oz ^[Talk] 03:52, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Ronaldsway culture refers to a neolithic archeaological stratum, not the local fine dining establishments. μηδείς (talk) 04:18, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

meta-discussion of how to answer this question; see talk page

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

Watch it, Jayron. If I had given that answer to the OP's question I'd have been accused of undermining the sanctity of childhood, universal healthcare, honey bees, and the fabric of time and space with my part-time trollery. μηδείς (talk) 04:18, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Wait what? --Jayron32 04:20, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Follow the link I provided, then reread the thread carefully, including spelling, then let me know if you are still confused. μηδείς (talk) 05:01, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I'm confused by why you accused me of trolling. I'm not confused by your link. --Jayron32 05:03, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I did not accuse you of actually trolling. I said that if I had accidentally made the apparently inadvertent joke you did out of ignorance, I would have been accused of intentionally mocking the OP. μηδείς (talk) 05:55, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Oh I see how this works now. Jayron32 tries to give informative answers which wikilink to our articles (as is the point of this reference desk) while other editors patronisingly link to Google search results or to Youtube videos which have no relevance. No wonder this website is ridiculed from some quarters, some long-term editors should know better. The Rambling Man (talk) 15:48, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Ronaldsway culture refers to the neolithic flint tool artifacts found at the Ronaldsway airport on the Isle of Man. They date from the 3rd millennium BC. BBC has an overview (with video) here. However, it seems the most thorough info is in a book, The Neolithic Culture of the Isle of Man: A Study of the Sites and Pottery, by Stephen Burrow, Archaeopress 1997, ISBN: 0860548724 ([7]). It looks as if retailers such as Amazon carry it, so a good library probably will as well. 184.147.137.171 (talk) 16:58, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

What time of day and date of the year would most people on earth be in darkness?

Moved to the Science desk. Evanh2008 ^{(talk|contribs)} 07:20, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

St. Stephen's Cathedral, Vienna - unidentified detail

I photographed this in St. Stephen's Cathedral, Vienna. It is located in the shop entrance.

. Any information concerning the function and surrounding text will be appreciated. Etan J. Tal^(talk) 08:36, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Meanwhile question answered in German WP - pls disregard Etan J. Tal^(talk) 15:30, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Answer on German Wikipedia. Deor (talk) 14:23, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Creating a communist society

This has long ceased to be anything other than a shared soapbox

Suppose you were a revolutionary socialist who had just managed to overthrow the government in a highly developed, first-world country (pick any one you like). Starting from here, how would you build "true communism"? I'm not saying "communism" is necessarily good or evil, but I would like to know if it's actually possible. From a quick read through Soviet history, it seems like they never got anywhere close. 78.105.228.3 (talk) 11:50, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

We don't do hypotheticals, debates, speculation, what-ifs, crystal ball gazing and the like here. We deal in matters that can be referenced. Sorry. -- Jack of Oz ^[Talk] 11:58, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think it's an unreasonable question at all, and I'd be very interested to see what answers people come up with. It's simply asking for the theoretical steps by which a communist society would be achieved. That doesn't sound like speculation or crystal ball gazing to me. --Viennese Waltz 12:09, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The usual way of dealing with hypotheticals like that is to point to an article or book which tackled a subject like that. Mark and Engels The Communist Manifesto would be a start on that. You'll see where all the turgid mind numbing prose of communism came from. Dmcq (talk) 12:51, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm, I just looked up longest speeches expecting the communists to have a overwhelming pole position but in [8] some Indian politician speaking to the UN security council took over eight hours, easily beating Castro's four hours and 29 minutes to the UN general assembly. Dmcq (talk) 12:58, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

V. K. Krishna Menon was the first defence minister of India not "some Indian politician". Solomon7968 (talk) 18:07, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

@ Viennese Waltz, he wants more than the theoretical steps. He says the Soviets never got anywhere close, so the theory didn't work there. There have never been any actual, real-life examples of truly communist societies, so to get from the theory that failed in the USSR and has manifestly failed in other so-called communist countries, to one that might actually work, he wants ... well, more theory. Trouble is, he hasn't asked for what reliable sources have said about this new theory, he's asked how to actually implement and achieve it. Nobody in the world knows that, because 100% of attempts have failed. It's unanswerable. -- Jack of Oz ^[Talk] 13:17, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The followers of Marx and Engels many flaws were the perfect case study in how to fail, using gulags. Societies artificially constructed by a tiny group of individuals can never compete with those that develop naturally. 71.127.137.190 (talk) 13:59, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Neither Marx nor Engels ever advocated 'societies artificially constructed by a tiny group of individuals'. AndyTheGrump (talk) 16:04, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

As Margaret Thatcher said "The problem with socialism [or for that matter communism] is that you eventually run out of other peoples money". The example that is most telling to me is that of Cuba, an immensely wealthy island that is capable of feeding the world and one of the last colonies Spain was willing to fight for up until almost 1900. Today nobody does anything because Castro "owns" everything and the nation can't feed itself, in its quest for communal equality of outcomes it punishes innovation and creativity and is basically a race to the bottom, but hey you have the greatest equality there, everybody was suffering, until capitalists came by with more tourist dollars in the last 15 years.^{Market St.⧏}_{⧐ Diamond Way} 16:02, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, now that you've got John Galt's theory about why communism can't work (certainly it contributes to Cuba's backwardness in major areas, but look at its closest neighbors in Latin America and the Caribbean which have never come nearly as close to implementing communism, and see if you think they're doing better in most sectors) to get some idea of why it hasn't worked, you might take a look at the kibbutz experiments in Israel, which were never on a national scale but the cards weren't stacked against success by the abandonment or resistance of so many unwilling participants. There, it looks as though whatever economic challenges the founding generation encountered (and they were significant), the death knell seems to have been sounded by the next generation's rejection of the discipline and attraction to the opportunities they felt were only accessible outside the system. They left and didn't come back to raise their children. FactStraight (talk) 17:49, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I think the fatal mistakes in communism were it's dismissal of religion and democracy. Religions should have been appropriated and put to use, not banned. True Christianity, for example, has a long tradition of charity and egalitarianism. It could be argued that a true socialist nation, where everyone "works according to their ability and takes only according to their need", is the best form of government for a Christian nation. Similarly, if you convinced the population of that, so they were willing to work hard, not for rewards in this life, but in the afterlife, then democracy would ensure that leaders who actually believed in the cause would remain in power, too, as opposed to those who just give lip service to communism as they steal from the nation. StuRat (talk) 18:36, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

And now we have exactly what I told the OP we don't do here, a round-table discussion or debate about the flaws of communism. That was not what he asked. -- Jack of Oz ^[Talk] 20:52, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

And I still maintain we could have answered the question without descending into such a discussion. I don't know a whole lot about communism, but one thing I do know is that it calls for redistribution of wealth. Therefore, one possible answer to the OP's question would have been that a hypothetical revolutionary socialist leader would build communism by redistribution of wealth. What is unacceptable about that? --Viennese Waltz 20:57, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

As I said above, he's gone beyond the hypothetical. He's not interested in the theory (he cited the USSR as a notable example of how that theory failed) and is asking what would ACTUALLY work. Trouble is, we cannot point to an example of how communism has actually worked, because it never has actually worked. All we could ever do is give cites about what people say, think, assert WOULD work, but they're untested, and hence still in the realm of theory, and hence inadequate as an answer for what the OP is asking for. There is no answer we can give that satisfies the question. I'd say the same thing about a question asking what could Politician X do to guarantee he becomes the next President of the USA. -- Jack of Oz ^[Talk] 21:32, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Well, he starts by asking "how would you build "true communism"?" That sounds pretty hypothetical to me. The statement "I would like to know if it's actually possible" doesn't really fit with what has gone before. I would be tempted to ignore it and focus on trying to answer the first part. --Viennese Waltz 21:36, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Only if you regard communism as inherently hypothetical and unrealisable, which the OP seems not be doing. If he'd asked "How would you build a house" or "How would you travel to Patagonia", we'd answer that as a real and un-hypothetical question. This question is being asked on the same real basis (albeit within the context of a hypothetical overthrow of the government in a highly developed, first-world country). -- Jack of Oz ^[Talk] 22:58, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

In any case, even if I agreed with you that it's a hypothetical question, we still can't answer it because of our policy of not answering hypothetical questions. -- Jack of Oz ^[Talk] 00:24, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

To answer OP's "how would you", perhaps the banishment of Wikipedia? The almost total control of information was a common thread among many communist regimes, in which case JackofOz's point is supported in another way. And hey in reference to several posts above the John Galt response wouldn't entirely work since my userpage clearly demonstrates an aversion to Objectivism ;-).^{Market St.⧏}_{⧐ Diamond Way} 01:04, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I believe Stalin said something along the lines of "Ideas are more powerful than guns, and we don't let enemies of the state have guns, so why would we let them have ideas?" --Jayron32 02:40, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Excellent find there Jayron32!^{Market St.⧏}_{⧐ Diamond Way} 02:57, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I partially agree with Jack of Oz that a lot of this discussion has shown the problems with these sort of questions on the RD. Since the OP themselves believe the Soviets didn't get close to achieving true communism, and we can assume that they don't believe anyone else did either (otherwise they would already have a model), I don't get the relevance of all the other failures to demonstrating how to achieve true communism, unless you're saying you should not do that which doesn't appear to be what is being suggested here. Even then, it's illogical to assume that everything they did was the wrong idea, so ultimately you'd need a more careful analysis (and really a whole lot of hypothetical and highly debately arguments) to tell whether anything was a good or bad idea in achieving true communism and that's not really something we should be doing. You could also use this as an argument for why it's not possible to achieve true communism but again you'd need a more sophisticated and detailed consideration (and this doesn't seem to have been the suggestion above, at least by Marketdiamond).

However I don't entirely agree with JackofOz on this question being unsuitable for the RD, although nor do I agree with VW. We shouldn't be coming up with our own OR and ideas on how to achieve true communism, that's not the purpose of the RD and while we tolerate it to some extent in some cases, this is the sort of case where it just doesn't work. But even though the OP's question was perhaps poorly phrased, there's no reason it can't be taken as a decent RD question, i.e. a request for references. And there must surely be many references with various ideas of how it can be done including those concentrating on first world countries and where all the others went wrong, and a lot more saying it's not possible with reasons given both of which would likely be of interest to the OP. Perhaps the only issue is the OPs scenario starts with the unclear 'overthrow of government' which is problematic particularly since the vast majority of highly developed first world countries have decent democracies with fairly free and fair elections. So overthrow of government would seem to imply some sort of coup by a small group of people which lacks popular support. I suspect a number of commentators who do still believe achieving true communism is possible would suggest trying to achieve it in such a scenario is difficult or impossible.

Nil Einne (talk) 15:16, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I believe The State and Revolution is the classic work on the subject.-gadfium 01:25, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Counter-intuitively, communists haven't spent much time analysing a potential transition to communism, focusing on the establishment of a dictatorship of the proletariat. The most relevant Wikipedia articles are stateless communism, the (very weak) world communism, and Engels' withering away of the state. Warofdreams talk 10:27, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Frank Zappa once said that communism doesn't work "because people like to own stuff." The OP would have to get past that barrier somehow. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 13:04, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

To further evolve on Zappa, see Liberal paradox or an interpretation of the "architect" here since despite communism theory there will always have to be organization which is centralized and total in nature, again to add to JackofOz's overall point, wikipedia like google and Youtube in China would be censored to the point of being useless and banned, so its a bit ironic asking it here.^{Market St.⧏}_{⧐ Diamond Way} 20:44, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

the Anamithim

I've heard many references in Faerie folklore and such to creatures known as the Anamithim, but they were always vague and obscure. What are they? What is their origin? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.59.51.225 (talk) 19:24, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

When I search google books for the term, the earliest reference is the Charles de Lint novel Blue Girl[9], from 2004. [10] Unless there is another spelling, it doesn't appear to be a term from actual folklore but an invention of de Lint. 184.147.137.171 (talk) 20:24, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

A plural word ending in "-im" sounds more Hebrew than Celtic anyway... AnonMoos (talk) 01:09, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Well, I wouldn't assume that 'Faerie folklore' would have any reliably Celtic content. But yes, it sounds quasi-Hebrew, but I'd be willing to bet that it either doesn't have a valid root, or the root has an irrelevant and inapt meaning unknown to the person who invented the word. AlexTiefling (talk) 06:49, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

If you try to interpret it as a Hebrew word, "-ith" is one transcription of a feminine singular ending, while "-im" is a masculine plural ending (the two do not occur side-by-side in real Hebrew words), while "Anam" doesn't seem to occur except in an obscure proper name in Genesis 10:13. Apparently in some Greek manuscripts of Genesis 13, this name has an extra "t" in it (Αινεμετιειμ), so if there's any connection with Hebrew, it's probably that... AnonMoos (talk) 08:13, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

May 20

Alex Linder's middle name

I have been trying to find a reliable source to cite to add Alex Linder's middle name to the biography. Many sources say his full name is Alex Ruedy Linder, but I don't know if any of them are reliable. Vanguard News Network is obviously not reliable, even though he mentions his full name there. How should I know if Ruedy actually is his middle name? 108.0.244.168 (talk) 00:16, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The closest I've been able to come to confirming his middle name is this, and I don't think that's a reliable source. Evanh2008 ^{(talk|contribs)} 04:18, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Efficacy of detachable faceplates for deterrence of car stereo theft

I'm looking into the efficacy of detachable faceplates for car stereo theft deterrence. Is there any research that demonstrates this? Quotes from police departments? I can't find any research that's been done in this area. Sancho 01:24, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Need help identifying piano work

Can anyone help me identify the first work played in this video? The beginning is cut off, as is, most likely, the identifying card that is shown for the other works played in this concert. Thanks. Chick Bowen 03:44, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Sure. It's the 3rd and final movement (Presto agitato) of Beethoven's Moonlight Sonata. The slow first movement is the famous one, but there are 2 others. -- Jack of Oz ^[Talk] 04:26, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Someone asked recently about one tune inspiring another. Hard telling in this case, but you may know that Victor Borge used to seamlessly segue from "Moonlight ~~Sinatra~~ Sonata" to tunes like "Night and Day" and "Happy Birthday to You". ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 04:31, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. I guess more was cut off than I thought--it must have been about 10 minutes. Chick Bowen 23:46, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Evidence of consciousness is coming up independently with the the 'hard problem' - who has already said this?

I remember reading somewhere the idea that good evidence of consciousness (in the sense of the hard problem) is independently coming up with the concept of the hard problem of consciousness.

My question: who was it who said/wrote this? Is it part of some of existing theory / body of thought?

It seems a very simple and strong idea, but I have not been able to find it (in general web searches and in Wikipedia).

For example if some computers, or aliens, are overheard discussing the hard problem of consciousness, without having been introduced to it by human beings, then this seems very good evidence that they have consciousness.

The fact that other people discuss the hard problem is also good evidence to me that I am not the only person who is conscious.

This is such a simple argument I find it difficult to understand why it is not used more often - or maybe there is a flaw in it that I have not noticed. Could anyone point out such a flaw?

In the article Philosophical zombie, what seems to me a weaker version of the argument is used: "If someone were to say they love the smell of some food... If zombies were without awareness of their perceptions the idea of uttering words could not occur to them." It seems to me quite easy to conceive of something without hard-problem type consciousness coming up with that statement - it seems on the level of a simple robot going towards or away from a light source; two fairly simple computers fitted with appropriate sensors and a simple vocabulary could come up with that statement... There is a lot could be debated here - but my reason for mentioning it is: why didn't they use instead the (what seems to me) stronger argument about discussing the hard problem as being evidence of consciousness?

FrankSier (talk) 10:33, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

For reference, Hard problem of consciousness. Rojomoke (talk) 12:04, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know who wrote that, but the argument seems unsound. The basic idea underlying the "hard problem of consciousness", as David Chalmers formulated it, is that an entity could in principle behave exactly like a conscious entity without being conscious. That's what it means to be a philosophical zombie. But talking is a form of behavior, including talking about the hard problem of consciousness. Therefore talking, regardless of the topic, cannot provide evidence for having genuine experiences. Rejecting this reasoning is equivalent to rejecting the validity of the "hard problem of consciousness". (Let me note that this whole topic strikes many people, including me, as absurd. Daniel Dennett explained the absurdity in a compelling way in a well-known essay titled The Unimagined Preposterousness of Zombies.) Looie496 (talk) 15:35, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

What I find absurd is Dennett's position, so much so that I have trouble believing he's actually sincere.

But we're probably not going to get anywhere talking about that. Let's just take the consequences of the arguments as presented. The p-zombie argument says that it's possible in principle that an entity yada yada yada as you say. It doesn't say anything about how likely it is, and indeed that's entirely irrelevant to the argument. So behavior can indeed be evidence of consciousness. Just not proof.

Of course, all bets are off if someone is intentionally trying to deceive you. --Trovatore (talk) 03:33, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Maggie Q in Mission Impossible 3

Can anyone explain me the context of the vatican city scene in Mission Impossible 3 of Maggie Q.

Is wearing backless dress allowed in vatican city?
What was she trying to prove in the backless dress?

Thank you. 117.99.1.139 (talk) 12:26, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I haven't seen the film but perhaps you could answer this question for us. Why wouldn't a backless dress be allowed in Vatican City? Granted, it's a religious country but backless items are common in this day and age. So why do you feel that a point would need to be made by wearing something so common? Dismas|^(talk) 12:58, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Well, if you believe Angels & Demons wearing short shorts is banned too. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 13:03, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Is it allowed to meet the pope by wearing backless dress. Again I have no idea of Vatican City? Can I just go there and meet the pope? Thank you. 223.231.7.121 (talk) 13:22, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Googling turns up lots of discussion of the strict dress code to enter St. Peter's Basilica, which is not just a tourist attraction but a place of worship. The rule seems to be no shorts, no miniskirts, no bare shoulders for either sex. Here's what looks like an official warning: [11]. Doesn't mention backless dresses, but since the Swiss Guards are pretty strict, you'd be well advised to take along a sweater or other modest top to wear over your dress. Textorus (talk) 15:28, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

This was the answer I was looking for Textorus. I wonder why some people like Dismas not knowing answer of a question instead tend to harass the person asking the question. 223.231.7.121 (talk) 16:05, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

You can consult image File:Vatican-tourists-queuing-at-St-Peter-6598.jpg. Doubt there are too many restrictions in Saint Peter's Square (most of which is technically not part of the Vatican), but when entering more controlled areas things would be different... AnonMoos (talk) 18:52, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

What do you mean by "most of which is technically not part of the Vatican". I have *zero* knowledge of vatican city. Explanation needed. If any simple guy wants to visit the pope (not necessary in backless dress) where to contact? 106.198.135.241 (talk) 19:00, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

This article contains information and links for people wishing to get tickets for a papal audience. You can apply for tickets directly yourself, and they are free. There is no guarantee you will meet the Pope personally at such an event, although you will see him, but the Holy See's website is here if you want to investigate further. As for the dress code inside the Basilica or in St Peter's Square, this news article shows that the dress code has been extended to the Square itself at times, and this Tripadvisor thread makes it clear that enforcement is not consistent and can depend on the guards on duty. Since a backless dress would probably expose at least some of your shoulders, which is not permitted under the dress code, I suggest you wear something else - not shorts either - if you get your ticket and will enter either the Square or the Basilica itself. - Ka renjc 19:31, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

106.198.135.241 -- I probably expressed it wrong, but the Italian police often has jurisdiction over the piazza for crowd-control duties, which is not true for the rest of the Vatican... AnonMoos (talk) 20:19, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

To the OP, I didn't mean to harass but when a person can find their way to this desk to ask a question, knows how to use the bold function (though I don't know why you needed it in this case) and has the same access to the Vatican City article as the rest of us, I don't see why you wouldn't at least skim that article first. If you had, you would have seen the culture section. Following that link provides you with a section on the dress code within the Basilica. You've said twice now that you don't know anything about Vatican City and yet you have quite a bit of information at your finger tips. Dismas|^(talk) 00:32, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

They won't let you in some places with bare shoulders, definitely. There are lots of scarf-sellers and so forth immediately outside who take advantage of this to sell you overpriced coverings. You can get away with being bare-shouldered inside buildings, if no one is watching... Adam Bishop (talk) 01:57, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

See papal audience. My boyfriend saw John Paul in 2003 and was in jeans and a muscle T. μηδείς (talk) 03:53, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I had been meaning to see this movie and have had it in my Netflix queue for some time. MI2 was such a horrible movie that it soured me on the series (I actually re-watched it before watching MI3 just now and stand by my earlier assessment. MI2 is horrible!) but thought I'd give MI3 a shot anyway. So, I watched the movie and I'd like to redeem myself for my previous comments and provide you with some answers to your question. We've gone over the first already, "Is a backless dress allowed to be worn in Vatican City". But the second, what was she trying to prove? I wouldn't say that she was trying to prove anything. It was a decision to further the con that the MI team were playing on the bad guy, played by Phillip Seymour Hoffman. For those who care, here are a few screen caps from the movie. First, Maggie Q isn't the only actress wearing a backless dress. Not by a long shot. See here, here, and here. I would agree that it is by far more revealing than other backless dresses in the scene. For instance, see here and here. In that last one, the pale portion next to her hand at the bottom of the frame is her leg. While she didn't have anything to prove, I would say that there are two points to why she wore the dress in that scene. The first is for the benefit of the men in the audience with shots like this where she has to pull something from her garter. The second point in her wearing that dress, which was actually relevant to the plot of the film, was to seduce Hoffman's character here. As for why it was in Vatican City, it didn't need to be. They just needed an exotic locale and Vatican City fit the bill. There is absolutely no reason why this scene couldn't have happened in New York, London, Venice, or Bangkok. The particulars of the scene would have had to change to fit the city but in the end it was just a location with some glitz. With all that said, besides reading up on Vatican City, the OP might also want to read the MacGuffin article. So, I apologize for my earlier comments and hope this makes up for them. Dismas|^(talk) 10:32, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

egalitarian opposition to lotteries

With all this talk about reversing the US income disparity we have just recently had a lottery jackpot of $590 million.[12] A half-way billionaire. Do egalitarians also oppose this practise? I haven't found such on wiki. Pass a Method talk 19:50, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Lotteries provide upward mobility for a very few (randomly-chosen) winners, but are often considered to be a useless economic drain (or "stupidity tax") on predominantly lower/working class lottery ticket buyers... AnonMoos (talk) 20:23, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The state will bark about "reversing the US income disparity" up until the point it takes money from the state, and lotteries make tons of money for the state . . . how am I so sure? The state(s) have rapidly expanded lottery products in the last 40 years, government only grows something if it benefits government.^{Market St.⧏}_{⧐ Diamond Way} 20:33, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Our article lottery has mentions of opposition throughout and sections headed "problems" and "social corruption". "Egalitarian" is undefined here and I don't see how we can comment on a vague class of people's opinions. μηδείς (talk) 22:33, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Opposition to lotteries typically has to do with the fact that it's a state-sponsored "vice", which could lead a gambling addict to ruin. That's the moralistic argument. The practical argument is that it is often supposed to be for funding education, but that somehow other projects manage to get their mitts on it... and that it doesn't really raise enough money anyway. Not sure where the "egalitarian" part comes in. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 05:39, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Doesn't help that I could be the worst craps player in the world (and by i worst i mean the worst odds) and still get better odds than most lottery players. Shadowjams (talk) 07:28, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Yes. Mathematically speaking, the odds of winning big in the lottery are almost the same whether you actually play or not. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 14:18, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Primogeniture

Let's consider a family of British landed gentry in the 1100's or 1200's. The father owns estates that provide for himself and his family. Let's assume he has more than one son. Because of the system of primogeniture, upon the father's death, the entirety of the estate would go to his firstborn son. How would the younger sons provide for themselves then? Were they expected to earn their own estates somehow (eg. warfare)? I know the primogeniture system was often amended with appanages, but was it common among the lower gentry or mainly restricted to the higher nobles? 88.112.32.233 (talk) 22:17, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

To a large extent, fathers could and did provide for younger sins in their wills; see Legal history of wills for the differences across various times and places (that article focuses on England, which was your question). They could also be provided for through marriage (see Dowry#History). In addition there were several paid occupations that were socially acceptable for members of the gentry; in the era you are discussing, these could include priests, military work of various kinds, as well as being a civil officer for a yet higher-ranking aristocrat (see bailiff); even a manservant was acceptable employment if the master's rank was sufficiently high: dukes, earls, and kings frequently drew their servants from younger sons among the lower gentry. Despite all that, it was often a problem, and friction between oldest and younger sons in an aristocratic family was very common (as portrayed in literary works such as Shakespeare's As You Like It). Chick Bowen 23:59, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, and as for when primogeniture applied: it chiefly applied to land. Differences of rank among the landed had little legal standing for something like that. Chick Bowen 00:00, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The OP might learn a lot on this subject by reading about the Paston Letters, a hundred years' worth of one wealthy but non-noble family's letters and legal documents, which unusually and almost miraculously were preserved intact from the 14th-15th centuries and were eventually published in the Victorian era. They can be read online, but a layman might get more understanding of the legal and social milieu from reading the two recent books written about the Pastons, which are named in the wikiarticle. It's a fascinating story that covers a large family down through five or six generations. Textorus (talk) 01:32, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

They lived a bit later than the OP's 1100s-1200s though. The differences would not be too major, but 12th century England is rather different from the 15th (and even from the 13th). Adam Bishop (talk) 01:43, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

In some cases, younger sons didn't inherit, or at least were not always expected to inherit enough to support themselves; lots of them were "encouraged" to enter the religious life. I'm not exactly sure if he had older siblings, or how many he had, but the life of someone like Thomas Becket would be quite informative for the life of a son of middle-class Englishman of the 12th century. --Jayron32 02:21, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

88.112.32.233 -- England and Scotland were completely different countries at that time, as were parts of Wales up to 1282, so "British" had little practical meaning then. In parts of England, ultimogeniture or "Borough-English" was practiced among ordinary people (probably not among the nobility). One significant difference between England and France (though it did not fully manifest itself until long after 1200) was that in France all male-line descendants of nobility had theoretical noble status, whereas in England younger sons often became military officers or church clergymen, and their descendants often gradually merged into the middle classes... AnonMoos (talk) 02:45, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

You may find the story of how King John of England got his nickname and how he acceeded to the throne enlightening. --TammyMoet (talk) 12:56, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

May 21

Kansas Real Estate Commission - Statutory Authority History

Please provide history - detailed (with legislative intent if available) for history of the Kansas Real Estate Commission.

74-4201 currently shows:

74-4201: Kansas real estate commission; membership. (a) The Kansas real estate commission shall consist of five members appointed by the governor. Subject to the provisions of K.S.A. 1992 Supp. 75-4315c, one member shall be appointed from each congressional district and the remainder from the state at large. Each member shall have been, for a period of five years immediately preceding the member's appointment, a citizen and a resident of Kansas. Not less than three members shall have been real estate brokers for five years and not less than one member shall have never engaged in business as real estate brokers and shall not be so engaged while serving on the commission. (b) At the expiration of the term of any member of the commission, the governor shall appoint a successor for a term of four years and until a successor is appointed and qualifies. In the event of a vacancy in the membership of the commission, the governor shall appoint a member to serve for the unexpired portion of the vacated term and until a successor is appointed and qualifies. Each member of the commission shall, before entering upon the member's duties, take and file with the commission an oath to faithfully perform the duties of the office.

History: L. 1947, ch. 411, § 6; L. 1959, ch. 260, § 5; L. 1961, ch. 391, § 1; L. 1978, ch. 308, § 66; L. 1980, ch. 164, § 41; L. 1981, ch. 304, § 9; L. 1992, ch. 262, § 12; July 1.

I am looking for records as far back as possible. I want to see the changes - or find someone who has access to scan me copies of the changes of the laws of the KREC over the full history of the state agency.

I am specifically interested in the powers granted to the agency - but more especially with this specific statute 74-4201 which outlines the construct of the KREC members.

What is a member: From what I read - there are 5. Since there are now 4 congressional districts - the 5th member must never have been a licensed broker and not work as a broker while serving on the commission.

My desire is to answer the following:

1) Can the 5th "public" "member" be a licensed sales person. What is the specific intent of having a member of the "public"? There are Sales Agents and Brokers - 2 types of licenses in Kansas.

2) For the other 4 district appointees - I read that there must be at least 3 that "have been" brokers for 5 years - but does this mean that the original intent is to only appoint currently licensed which have held their KS Broker license for at least 5 years - or can it include a now unlicensed person, perhaps a retired professional, who held a broker license for at least 5 years in Kansas and is also a resident for the required time?

3) Also - can one of the 4 district appointees be a sales-person or a unlicensed person who was formerly licensed?

The intent is to find and document the legislative history and intent behind the formation and selection of commissioners of the Kansas Real Estate Commission so that I can provide some more detail to the governor's office of appointments to aide in their selection of members. The KREC has many - many problems and needs to be cleaned up from the inside. Making sure the governor's office has useful information in this selection process might allow a wider range of applicants to consider. Their current statement to me is that the intent of the law was for 4 active licensed brokers to be appointed 1 from each district - then one member of the public who was never in the real estate industry - as a "lay person"... I do not believe the intent was so strict but I can not prove it yet. GoZippy (talk) 00:55, 21 May 2013 (UTC)GoZippy[reply]

Sorry to inform you but this is a global reference desk and even if you had someone very skilled in Kansas legislative history this may also violate the ban on "legal advice" even in a non-suit manner. Since you seem to be in contact with the governors office and are displaying some very deep knowledge of Kansas law, have you attempted to research this at the Capital or state libraries? Given my experience in these matters not only do local governments assist you in finding these resources but several have specific employees whose only job it is to facilitate such citizen and organizational inquiries. If these statutes are as problematic as you say searching news references for their legislative history may help, for example many Florida media outlets have done stories on that state's "all-party" recording law's history.^{Market St.⧏}_{⧐ Diamond Way} 02:39, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The folk explanations of the cause of Kennedy tragedies?

In the Chinese article I saw some news reference[13] gives some possible folk explanation of Kennedy tragedies, but I didn't see any of these in the English article. So are there actually equivalents of these ideas in the English world, or is the news article just talking nonsense?

Explanation 1: This one is popular in South United States in the 1970s, says that Joseph P. Kennedy II(Or Joseph P. Kennedy, Sr? Otherwise it will not explain the earlier events happened) sold his soul to the devil in exchange of power and wealth.

Explanation 2: American writer and media worker Klein(not sure if it is the right name) once wrote that Joseph P. Kennedy, Sr. had been the ambassador to Great Britain. in 1937, Joseph P. Kennedy, Sr. had a Jewish priest who has just escaped from the nazis on the same ship with him. Kennedy complained to the shipmaster to ban the priest from doing his prayer, so the Jewish priest cursed the Kennedy family.

Explanation 3: When Joseph P. Kennedy, Sr. was the ambassador in Britain, he refused to give visas to 500 Jews for not getting United States involved in Europe. Rabbi Gutnick (?) of Australian Hebrew Association says: "This the curse of the Jews. This is a retribution."

--朝鲜的轮子 (talk) 03:13, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

You'll want to read John F. Kennedy assassination conspiracy theories and Robert F. Kennedy assassination conspiracy theories. Lots of this stuff is mostly batshit crazy, and for that reason doesn't bear mentioning in the main articles on the assassinations themselves. Some of it, though batshit crazy, is widely reported and thus has its own Wikipedia article, separate from the main article where it doesn't really belong. --Jayron32 03:19, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

What does it have to do with the assasinations? I just wondered whether those explanation actually exist in English media, or if they are just hearsay and creations of the Chinese media.--朝鲜的轮子 (talk) 03:26, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Americans generally don't believe in the power of curses. Very few really believe that it is possible to literally sell your soul to the devil either, although there are many stories of such things. Looie496 (talk) 03:31, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

i.e. Faust. Though I think that story is German... --Jayron32 03:33, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I was thinking of The Devil and Daniel Webster, plus all the stories of Blues musicians selling their souls to the devil. Looie496 (talk) 14:29, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

There really is a book about Kennedy Curse with the author named Klein...[14]--朝鲜的轮子 (talk) 03:45, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Aside from what non-Jews may imagine, believe, and promulgate about a so-called "Jew's curse" - there is actually a limited stock of curses within the religion Judaism and primarily applied to other Jews: see Pulsa diNura; the Herem is a form of excommunication or shunning. The strongest curse against a non-Jew would be Yimakh shemo, "May his name and memory be obliterated." Within Jewish folklore, notably in the Yiddish language, the verbal act of cursing is expressive rather than magically or spiritually effectual. -- Deborahjay (talk) 05:00, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

By "expressive rather than magically effectual", do you mean it's the rough equivalent of "God damn it!" or "go fuck yourself", in contexts where the speaker doesn't literally mean either? --Bowlhover (talk) 08:16, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

It would be said as an imprecation expressing ill-wishes towards the person who incurred disfavor. No supernatural powers are invoked. It did not commonly include profanity. -- Deborahjay (talk) 08:52, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

To the OP: nothing in mainstream Christianity allows one to curse another person and have the curse be effective. No major Christian denomination, as far as I know, holds such a belief. In fact, the Bible makes it quite clear that only a select people (Jesus, apostles, prophets, some priests) have supernatural powers, and even those powers are granted to them by God. In most Western countries the second largest religious affiliation is "non-religious", and the non-religious are unlikely to believe in the magical power of cursing. I think most Americans and Canadians would associate cursing with voodoo dolls and voodoo practices, but very few actually believe in their efficacy.

So, it's highly unlikely that those "folk explanations" were common amongst the American public at any time. --Bowlhover (talk) 08:16, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Back to the topic. Are there any publications related to these ideas on Kennedy tragedies (or some other theories, though I would better ask in another question) at least? The first one is obviously a common fantasy so I was quite doubtful; I've just find a title of book related to the second one. The third one---I guess there should be documents about whether Joseph P. Kennedy, Sr did anything related to Jews(e.g. the visa event)? And also did any Jew commented on that?--朝鲜的轮子 (talk) 09:31, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Broadly speaking, Joe Kennedy's relationship with Jewish people was complex. See Joseph P. Kennedy, Sr.#Evidence of anti-Semitism. Broadly speaking, it seems that while he had friends and political allies who were Jewish, but on the other side there were accusations of anti-Semitism and Nazi sympathies, especially during his time as Ambassador to the U.K. I don't see any specific evidence that he obstructed immigration of any Jewish people directly, however. And any talk of a "curse" cast on his family is, of course, bullshit. But it does not appear, from what is written in the article, that he had the healthiest attitude towards Judaism. --Jayron32 12:18, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Lincoln–Kennedy coincidences urban legend

In Chinese article it is said that the claim "Booth ran from a theatre to a warehouse; Oswald ran from a warehouse to a theatre." is not true, but English article has not mentioned whether it was true or not. So is this supported by any records?--朝鲜的轮子 (talk) 06:04, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Is there a footnote in the Chinese article citing the source of this information? It's appropriate to post your query on the Talk page of that article. You can also look at the edit history of the article and post the query on the Talk page of the editor who added that information - and possibly a private email (if the editor is accessible that way) to alert the editor to your query. -- Deborahjay (talk) 06:45, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

From my memory of a History Channel special on JWB he actually "ran" several places for 50~100 miles and crossed a very wide part of the Potomac southeast of D.C. close to the Chesapeake into Virginia and kept "running" (including to poor Dr. Mudd's place). I found this interesting website here that demystifies some of this, it seems that the original scribe was not JWB and LHO "ran" but were "caught" in a theater/warehouse, given that every school child in the U.S. knows JWB was caught in a Virginia barn and as the story goes was burned down with it it seems that the urban legend has twisted the 19th century semantics some. Basically referring to the School Book Depository and Tobacco Shed as "places that store things" equaling what one might refer to as a "warehouse" in some sense.^{Market St.⧏}_{⧐ Diamond Way} 07:25, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Snopes has a page mentioning it here. It calls the coincidence "inaccurate and superficial". Hut 8.5 07:27, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

In some cases it is just kind of vague definition.--朝鲜的轮子 (talk) 08:02, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

A lot of these "coincidences" (which have been talked about ever since 11/11/63) require some vagueness to work. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 14:17, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

obscure term

When I was a kid, KPIX-TV sometimes included the word "nightcast" after "eyewitness news". This was during the late local news. Has "nightcast" become an obscure term for several late local news programs?142.255.103.121 (talk) 07:59, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I've heard it used to refer to the late news broadcast as opposed to the early evening broadcast. Many stations broadcast the news at around 6pm and then again at 10 or 11pm. The former is often called the "evening news" and the latter is then the nightly news or "nightcast". Dismas|^(talk) 10:36, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The English language is very flexible in creating words like this, called portmanteaus, and it is very easy to understand, from context and from the definitions of the separate bits put together, exactly what they mean. Native English speakers, hearing the word "nightcast" for the first time in their lives, but hearing it while watching the late night news, would recognize instantly the portmanteau between "night" and "broadcast". This sort of construction happens all the time, and with little confusion for native English speakers. It annoys the pedants who believe that the language should not have changed since Anglo-Saxon times, but most people understand that language is fluid and evolves. --Jayron32 14:41, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Just the suffix "-cast" has a lot of these: broadcast, telecast, webcast, podcast, etc. I wonder if those pedants you refer to are essentially "language creationists". ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 14:53, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Like ever since the Watergate scandal, many scandals have been tagged as something-gate, despite making no etymological sense, nor any sense to anyone who never heard of the Watergate scandal. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 14:55, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hit-man services on the dark web - real?

When I visit The Hidden Wiki, I see links to supposed "hit-man" services. In many western countries, the conviction rate for murder is (I believe) pretty high. (The police in my jurisdiction, Australia, claim a 94% conviction rate). Given that, have any cases actually surfaced of murderers killing someone after advertising on the net, and having an anonymous "client" pay them to kill a total stranger? I assume if such "services" were real, surely some of the killers would (given the law of averages and high conviction rates) have been caught, and the motive ("online hiring") publicly revealed? (I've never read of such a case coming to light). I'm asking specifically about anonymous online hiring - I know guns-for-hire ("rent-a-kill" contracts) have long been available in the criminal underworld for the murder of criminal rivals. Also, my question is specifically in regards to jurisdictions where murder conviction rates are high - not those such as Mexico, El Salvador, or South Africa, where unsolved murder by strangers is an everyday occurrence.

(To state the bleeding obvious, I have absolutely no plans to hire a contract killer, online or otherwise. And even if I was, I wouldn't be stupid enough to believe in honour-amongst-espoused-murderers, and would insist on an escrow service. I'm simply curious if such services, are, in fact, real). 203.45.95.236 (talk) 08:09, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I would assume that most of these "hit men" services are bogus... and some of them may actually be law enforcement sting operations, looking to stop murder conspiracies before they start. Blueboar (talk) 12:09, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

While I would mostly agree with Blueboar, I would note you've provided no sources for you claims. [15] suggests about 12% of homicides remain unsolved in Australia and suggests the clearance rate is going down in the US. This [16] more recent article suggest 46 out of 510 or about 9% of homicides in 2008-2010 were unsolved at the time of publication, this year. The first source uses the definition were the alleged offender has been charged or when it is believed to be a murder suicide, the second also includes all other cases where it's cleared such as the alleged offender having died although I wonder if the first also included these it was just not clear enough. Of course a homicide is not necessarily a murder although it will often be difficult to be sure it is manslaughter or otherwise not a murder if it is unsolved (of course sometimes it is highly likely it is a murder). The police are sometimes accused of massaging statistics but even so, presuming your memory is correct the more likely explanation is the police do accurately claim a 94% conviction rate but by this they mean 94% of cases where an offender is charged (which is what the claim would mean to me anyway) which highlights an important point namely that the figures would be lower then the 9-12% since it is unlikely all people charged are convicted. In other words while the success rate in Australia may be high, it's most probably not that high. Of course if someone is charged in a case of a contract killer and the case actually goes to court, it's likely there will be some evidence surrounding the contract otherwise the case is probably going to be fairly weak. But anyway, the other point is the second source supports the widely held view that most homicides are committed by people who know the offender, and the first source seems to confirm what seems rather likely, that homicides committed by strangers are more difficult to solved. In the case of a contract killing, the person who took out the contract must know the offender and will likely also be guilty of the homicide in most jurisdictions. While I didn't read the either source that carefully but I think the first, and probably the second confirm that most killers are fairly incompetent and have little or planning which helps ensure they are caught. And one of the reasons why a decent contract killer is going to be reluctant to use such services is they themselves run the risk of either being set up or having a foolish client who may get them caught (beyond the other problems like how they actually establish a reputation for what's likely to be a very low volume business). The hirer also often has the problem of how they hide the payment without it being obvious that they at least have a bunch of money unaccounted for if the police get their financial records. Anyway back to the main point namely that all this highlights an important point namely that the solution rate whatever it is only tells us a little about the likelihood a contract killing is going to be solved. Nil Einne (talk) 13:49, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

(OP here - different computer). Sorry for not providing sources. Victoria Police (my jurisdiction) reported that in 2010 they achieved a 95% "solution rate". (See page 10). Admittedly, this may not be identical to the conviction rate.

Why do you assume that the person who took out the contract must know the offender? The scenario I'm describing is where the "contract" takes place over the internet (via an anonymizing / I.P. address-hiding service such as Tor), with neither side knowing the other's true identity. Thus, there is no risk of the hirer divulging the identity of the killer, as they don't know it. (The risk of the killer being "set up" by police in a sting operation does remain. However, running a contract-killing sting operation of this sort would seem VERY risky, as the killer may just succeed). As to payment, I assume, like most such dark-web transactions, one would pay in bitcoin. (Admittedly, IF the police had a suspect hirer, they may possibly spot a large sum of money leaving his bank account into the ether). My question as such remains: Are such "services", to the best of our knowledge, likely to be real? Has such a case (an "internet hit-contract") ever been uncovered? 58.111.185.207 (talk) 15:30, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Entailment law England in first half of 19th century

If a landholder died leaving a pregnant widow, would the estate pass to the next in the entail, or would there have been a waiting period to see if the expected child was male? Thank you! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.54.183.185 (talk) 12:50, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The Dam Busters, The Great Escape and suchlike

Full disclosure: I'm German, so do by all means mention the war. That said, I haven't seen many if any of these peculiarly British WW2-Movies like "The Great Escape", but even so I picked up the notion somewhere that the genre conventions demand that there be exactly one "Jock", one "Taffy" and one "Paddy" amongst the valiant Tommies in every squad, POW camp, warship etc.; so that any such unit comes to allegorically represent the United Kingdom. I intended to include this into my (German) articles on Jock, Paddy and Taffy, but when I started googling I could not locate any actual movie where this is in fact the case, only this parody by Geoff Dyer. Suggestions welcome... --Janneman (talk) 13:26, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure whether the German Wikipedia has the same rules, but adding this to English-language Wikipedia articles would be considered original research unless you can cite a source that has made the same observation. AndyTheGrump (talk) 13:42, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I can't say that it is a movie convention, but there is definitely a school of joke that starts "There was an Englishman, a Scotsman and an Irishman...". Are you including that? --TammyMoet (talk) 14:38, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Is this anything like the placeholder names Tom, Dick and Harry, but with more nationalistic overtones? In movies, it is common in an "ensemble cast" film to include people of different backgrounds, or which fit certain character "tropes". This is not just restricted to WWII films, but rather applies to any film with a large, ensemble cast. --Jayron32 15:16, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Civil unions and equal marriage

What is the full list of countries and jurisdictions that:

Have both equal mariage for same-sex couples and civil partnerships/unions?
Used to have civil partnerships/unions but replaced them outright with equal marriage? (Give or take provisions for couples already in a civil union.)

Timrollpickering (talk) 13:44, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

By one are you including jurisdictions which lack civil unions for opposite sex couples or only ones that have it? Nil Einne (talk) 13:51, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Marriage equality#Current status, Status of same-sex marriage, and Same-sex union legislation, LGBT rights by country or territory are good places to start. There's a map in all of these, and a chart in the last one, but the map and chart don't get more granular than the national level, but remember that many, if not most, nations in the world are unitary states where laws like this only exist on the national level. Federations like Canada, Russia, the U.S. and Australia, where subnational units make these sort of laws instead of the national government, are less common. However, Wikipedia's articles are fairly detailed, many of the federal states that leave these laws to lower geographic units have separate articles which cover those, such as LGBT rights in the United States and you should be able to construct whatever you're looking for out of those three articles. --Jayron32 14:36, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

US-USSR Parliamentarian Conference, 1978

Has anyone heard of this event, and if so, where it was located? I'm running into several different versions of the name in a printed document, such as "Parliamentarian", "Parliamentary", "Interparliamentary", etc., plus the variances in "USA", "Soviet Union", "United States", "USSR", etc. I've tried several combinations on Google, but I didn't find anything. It looks like it was a bilateral summit, not some kind of Inter-Parliamentary Union meeting with lots of other countries. 2001:18E8:2:1020:D0F5:2B06:C8A5:CCDB (talk) 14:57, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Aspen Conference on the World Economy, 1989

Same question as above: do you know where the Aspen Conference on the World Economy was held? Aspen, Colorado perhaps? I probably have the wrong name, since Google finds exactly one hit, and it's someone's resume mentioning a conference ten years later. 2001:18E8:2:1020:B9F4:C1DD:38B4:E9B3 (talk) 15:35, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

@@ Line 313: / Line 313: @@
 Has anyone heard of this event, and if so, where it was located?  I'm running into several different versions of the name in a printed document, such as "Parliamentarian", "Parliamentary", "Interparliamentary", etc., plus the variances in "USA", "Soviet Union", "United States", "USSR", etc.  I've tried several combinations on Google, but I didn't find anything.  It looks like it was a bilateral summit, not some kind of [[Inter-Parliamentary Union]] meeting with lots of other countries.  [[Special:Contributions/2001:18E8:2:1020:D0F5:2B06:C8A5:CCDB|2001:18E8:2:1020:D0F5:2B06:C8A5:CCDB]] ([[User talk:2001:18E8:2:1020:D0F5:2B06:C8A5:CCDB|talk]]) 14:57, 21 May 2013 (UTC)
+===Aspen Conference on the World Economy, 1989===
+Same question as above: do you know where the Aspen Conference on the World Economy was held?  [[Aspen, Colorado]] perhaps?  I probably have the wrong name, since Google finds exactly one hit, and it's [http://www.fortefoundation.org/site/DocServer/Forte_Scholars_2006_Resume_Book_in_school_order.pdf?docID=1221 someone's resume] mentioning a conference ten years later.  [[Special:Contributions/2001:18E8:2:1020:B9F4:C1DD:38B4:E9B3|2001:18E8:2:1020:B9F4:C1DD:38B4:E9B3]] ([[User talk:2001:18E8:2:1020:B9F4:C1DD:38B4:E9B3|talk]]) 15:35, 21 May 2013 (UTC)