Wikipedia:Reference desk/Miscellaneous

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November 2

wild cats?

lion biggest? fastest cheetah? smallest osolot?

not sure about smallest

what about largest teeth and smallest?

--Thebirds07 00:09, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Liger biggest (usually tiger largest), wild cat smallest. See also Felidae and big cat. Rmhermen 00:13, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Actually a number of lesser known species are even smaller than the Wild cat. Including the Black-footed Cat, Little Spotted Cat, Kodkod, Leopard Cat. Rmhermen 00:25, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

I thought the Rusty-spotted cat was the smallest. The Andean cat is the absolute coolest. -THB 02:08, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Very cool, thanks. Part cat, part squirrel? --Justanother 16:16, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Mis-information on the Cars flim pages

On the page about the Cars film http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cars_(film) Many of the cars are labled as being certain makes when there is no backing about this by Disney or Pixar. The characters that come to mind are Lightning McQueen, Boost, DJ, Snot Rod and Wingo. They have their own pages with misinformation about what their makes are. The cars that have official makes are listed in the credits and none of the ones listed there are in the credits of the film and books. The ones listed in the credits are: Dodge, Hudson Hornet, Volkswagen, Model T, Fiat, Mack, Mazda Miata, Kenworth, Chevrolet Impala, Porche, Jeep, Mercury, Plymouth Super Bird, Cadilla Coupe De Ville.

There is no mention of a Ford GT, a Mitsubishi, A Nissan, a Toyota or anything else listed on those pages. I do not have an account so I did not edit myself. I still feel that it's wrong to edit pages. Things like this end up happening.

Snakey 63.21.29.88 00:12, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

There are references. Did you not see them? For instance saying that Lightning McQueen is "A hybrid between a stock car and a more curvaceous LeMans endurance racer (like Lolas and the Ford GT40)." That apparently came from Pixar in this article ""A grease geek will guide you: 'Cars' decoded" by Dan Neil, Los Angeles Times, June 4, 2006". That link no longer works but we can probably assume that that is a true quote. The link needs to be updated. So you are saying because you did not see it in the credits, it should not be in the article here? The articles here can draw on many sources. Show me a specific one that you dispute and I will help you figure out if it is legit or not. --Justanother 00:39, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

I found the article [1] and you may have a good point. There is no GT40 mention there but that can probably be forgiven as whoever put it in the article was trying to explain "curvaceous LeMans endurance racer". I will adjust that bit to show you how it should probably look. --Justanother 00:46, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Take a look at Lightning now. When a wikipedia editor adds his own ideas to an article, that is called "original research" (OR) and it is not allowed. Mentioning the Lola and GT40 looks like original research as does the mention of the Buick Regal in a later one. Usually on a noncontroversial article like Cars, editors can get away with a lot of OR but if someone challenges them they have to source it or remove it. If you want to address it go ahead but be gentle. First try to find where that idea may have come from and supply the missing citation see WP:Cite. If you can't find one then just tag the fact asking for a citation; just type {{fact}} after the bit you dispute. If no-one comes back with one in a few days, go ahead and remove the uncited part. --Justanother 01:05, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for the help. Would I add the fact dispute after each sentence? I could post a link to most of the pages I found. The Lightning reference of course would be one. Then the fact that they mention Boost is an Eclipse, Wingo is a Silvia (this is also sadly mentioned on the Nissan Silvia page not to mention the images are labled as such which would mislead people), DJ is a Scion, and Snot Rod is a Barracuda are wrong and has not backing from Disney. Should I also provide Disney/Pixar approved material such as scanning the pictures of the toys where the characters are merely described as "tuners". The toys that are based on real cars and the ones that Disney was approved to use have the manufactuer logos on the bottom of the boxes. I think the reason the villains in the movie were composites that look like parts of cars but not any real car is because the companies would not give Pixar the right to portray their products in a negative light. But some of the cars mentioned in this don't even look like the ones in the movie. Snakey 63.21.41.23 04:50, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Remember to first try to verify it yourself. You should make a decent effort before tagging it. For example I tried to find a reliable source for Snot Rod being a Barracuda. I searched google here. There are 477 hits and I looked at the first 100 of them (you may want to look at more) and there was no reliable source. Remember, wikipedia and similar sites are NOT reliable sources. Nor are forums. A reliable source might be a newspaper or website of a reputable news firm. Here is an example of a reputable source; check it out, they mention the Buick Regal. [2] Remember also, that the internet is only a small portion of the resources available so perhaps the source exists but we can't easily find it. That is why you ask first. Sources do NOT have to be available on the internet, they just need to be reliable and cited. It is also possible to state something in different ways that can make less than reliable information acceptable here. If a Pixar or Disney representative says Snot Rod is a Barracuda then it would be represented as a fact. If an auto columnist in a reliable source says he looks like a Barracuda, or is one, that would be presented as "Joe Blow, columnist for the Terrible Times, stated that . . ." or perhaps "Terrible Times: 'Snot Rod is a Barracuda'" in that chart. Finally, if there is a lot of fan buzz that he is a Barracuda, you might be able to say "Fans claim . . . " but that one can get dicey. And yes, you should put the tag once for each group of related facts that you dispute; once for each car perhaps but not once after each part of a statement about a specific car if you dispute it all. Just be clear about what you dispute. You should also open a topic on the article discussion page for people to talk about your ideas. And remember that although other editors may have more experience or be "better writers" (though you seem a competent writer), none are "more special" than others. We are all equal. And that one article is not "more important" than another when it comes to our desire to "get it right" so go ahead and fix Cars. Hope this helps. --Justanother 14:17, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

This is precisely why I brought it up. There is no backing for these statments from an official Pixar or Disney person which is why it bothered me that some fan is trying to pass this off as fact. Some Pixar guy could come out of the blue and say they're all station wagons and then that would be the way it is. Coming from a scientific background I know that one should not make statements without having something to back them up. Seems to me this guy just wrote this stuff because he believes it. Another reason I didn't want to fix it myself is because he can come back at a later date and change everything back. What do you do when that happens? Snakey 63.21.9.150 18:37, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

If "Some Pixar guy could come out of the blue and say they're all station wagons" then that would have to stand if it is reported in a reliable source (he can't come here and claim to be a Pixar guy and change everything). It is not our job to judge the credibility of a spokesperson (unless that credibility question is also reported in a reliable source); that is the job of the reliable source, that is why they are called reliable and that is why unreliable sources like forums or newsgroups are not. But that is unlikely. What is more possible is that "Some anonymous wikipedia editor could come out of the blue and say they're all station wagons". That is easy to handle. You make a commitment to wikipedia. Open an account, it is free and anonymous, make your edits, and then add the page to your watchlist so you can keep an eye on it. That is the only solution. Eventually other editors will come to agree with you and help you protect the page. Just don't think that all that goes there is "official" statements. Anything that appears in a reliable source can go there provided it is not misrepresented. Think of wikipedia as a mirror that can only reflect information from reliable sources but cannot judge that information itself or add to it. Have fun. --Justanother 19:42, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Yes I know that, which is why I brough this up. I know it's not likely but what I'm saying is if a Pixar person did just show up (yes he'd have to prove who he was let's say he did) then my example stands that as rediculus as it sounds they would all officially be station wagons. We're on the same side here I'm not trying to argue. You yourself said you couldn't find any reliagable sources after going through 100 links for Snot Rod. This is why I mentioned this in the first place. What I'm proposing is putting up the information that IS official from Disney and Pixar. I have my own ideas about what the cars are but that doesn't make it so. My ideas aren't backed in the credits and neither is what is here. Many people believe anything they read. I questioned the information right away. It sounded fishy to me and after looking around just as you did came to the same conclusion that there's nothing to back this up. I have the official books, have a printed copy of the credits and the official descriptions of the toys all of which were given the Disney stamp of approval. Well, I may just make an account and change those parts as you recommend. Thanks for the help.

Great! Go for it. My point is that if a Pixar guy showed up here he still could not do his "original research" here. He would have to have it published elsewhere first (Pixar's website would be fine but not his personal website). Doesn't matter if he is the president of Pixar. You don't write original material here. These far-fetched examples can get dicey but I am sure you get my point. --Justanother 20:07, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Oh one more thing. On the Delinquent's page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Delinquent_Road_Hazards there is no option at the top to edit the intro section where the makes of the four are mentioned. That part needs to be changed. Are there any admins that can fix things like this when this happens? And the citation needed links on the main page were removed already. Did you do this or is it our fan kid at work? Snakey 63.21.12.253 19:57, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Just hit "Edit this page" at the very top. --Justanother 20:07, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Now welcome to the "real" wikipedia! Skywatcher68 seems to be invested in that article. What you don't want to do is butt heads with him. Open your account then start a topic on the talk page about your {{fact}} templates. Work out with him how to best achieve what you want to achieve. He may well agree with you. You may also want to point at this discussion so others can see your logic and you don't have to repeat everything; copy and paste [[Wikipedia:Reference desk/Miscellaneous#Mis-information on the Cars flim pages]] By the way, you put a fact template on the one that I already fixed. Good luck. From here on out please go to my talk page if you need help as this has gone beyond the scope of the reference desk. I am happy to continue to help you. --Justanother 20:17, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

pink object?

size of horse head? --Thebirds07 00:18, 2 November 2006 (UTC) a toy? --Thebirds07 00:20, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

A Barbie dollhouse??? 惑乱 分からん 00:36, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

whats the question ?

An industrial size bucket of suitly emphazi? Hyenaste ^(tell) 01:56, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

This should make you happy: X. -THB 02:04, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

• I think a pink horse head pretty much fits your requirements. - 131.211.210.17 09:50, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

LOL... please suitly inform us as to the desired outcome of the placing of a fake horse head in your lover's bed. Chris 18:30, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Where can I report Child Pornography sites?

I found a site that is posting ACTUAL child pr0n, where can I report them? The velociraptor 00:43, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Google can keep you happy for hours. --Tagishsimon (talk)

The you can report the site to National Center for Missing & Exploited Children here. Jon513 14:16, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

The National Center for Missing & Exploited Children is only for the United States however. Maybe report it to Interpol or something, I don't know. --WikiSlasher 10:51, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Just go right ahead and report it here, so that the rest of us can enjoy... err... become thoroughly enraged by it.

This joke has been brought to you by. Chris No child pornography sites have been visited by this user in the past 1... 2... 3 seconds. -- 17:20, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Chris, we are talking REAL child porn here, you know, like 5 years old; I doubt that you would enjoy it. --Justanother 17:25, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

That's kind of the idea. -- Chris 18:29, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Well, while we might have a bizarre fascination with the face of the pure evil that man can bring himself to do (and eventually desensitize himself to), I would not call the gratification of that fascination, "enjoyment". Reminds me of the beheading videos; I kinda wanted to watch one but always seemed to "chicken out" before the actual deed. Mike the Headless Chicken being another matter entirely. --Justanother 18:44, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

I agree. No matter how interesting fantasies about children might feel, the idea of real-life child pornography is utterly repulsive. JIP | Talk 11:10, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

WWI .303 British vs 5.56 NATO

Can someone compare the World War One .303 British round fired by the British Lee Enfield Rifles with the 5.56mm NATO round fired by the US Standard Issue M4/M16? (In terms of accuracy, power, range, etc..) Thanks --Jamesino 01:52, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

We have articles on both of them. Rmhermen 02:17, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Slightly painful lip zit

I have a tiny whitehead zit just on the corner of my lips. It's rather painful to touch, and a little jarring to see in the mirror. Should I leave it there if it's painful and wait for it to pass? Any suggestions? Just a minor annoyance, is all. 70.50.103.86 03:02, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Try acne meds? The velociraptor 04:16, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Attack it gently after a long hot shower since it hurts. -THB 04:41, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Wait for it to pass. Bacteria from a whitehead can travel deeper into the skin if it's disturbed, which can lead to more whiteheads. A little witch hazel (available for a pittance from a good pharmacy or for a king's ransom at good cosmetics counters) will "dry up" the whitehead faster, which makes it less prominent and less painful. Durova 05:42, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

A little hydrogen peroxide applied two or three times a day with a q-tip will work the same way as Durova's suggestion. Anchoress 07:36, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Whiteheads aren't caused by bacteria, they're caused by a buildup of glandular secretions (sebum). The pain is caused by the pressure. -THB 09:14, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

They're not caused by bacteria, but they do contain some, and squeezing can sufficiently irritate the pore walls to allow the bacteria entree into the surrounding tissue, leading to a pimple. Anchoress 16:53, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

It's irritating because your lip wants you do to something about it. The nagging discomfort is like a protest to the government (your brain). You can ignore the protestors, or you can appease them. A fingernail or two is the ideal tool in my vast experience. -- Chris 17:18, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Blue heron

How long does a blue heron stand on one leg before switching legs?

Dang, I thought that was a really obscure answer to the zit question. I liked it better that way. --Justanother 04:09, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Until it gets tired I suppose. See [3] for some info. --Light current 04:29, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

I believe they can stand on one leg indefinitely. Unlike our legs, which must constantly use muscles while we are standing, to maintain balance, some birds seem to have a way to lock a leg into position so that the bones directly support their weight, in a stable manner, much like a tree trunk supports a tree without requiring any muscles. StuRat 05:40, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

That would seem to be correct. Budgerigars can certainly stand on one foot for 12 hours at a time whilst sleeping, so the answer will either be 'indefinitely' or 'for a very long time'. --Kurt Shaped Box 07:41, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Having long toes of course also helps (if you don't want the wind to blow you over). DirkvdM 08:30, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

214 out of 220 blue herons measured in your locale -- wherever that may be -- stand on one leg for 381.40 +/- 57.34 seconds before switching. Each heron was given a unique and distinctive 2 oz. leg tag as to prevent it from being timed more than once. Regrettably, the tags made them easy prey for mud sharks and eagles, and 112 out of the 220 were recorded as dead before the study had ended. But, at least your question as been answered with thoroughness and precision!

This spoof has been brought to you by Chris. -- 17:13, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

(deleted seemingly spoof-like (but accurate and potentially life-saving(if off-topic)) post). Edison 18:42, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

In case it isn't obvious, I believe that last post was a spoof answer, as well. StuRat 20:16, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

I didnt think spoof replies were allowed!--Light current 18:07, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Pascal's waders can change legs with eyes closed. -- DLL ^{.. T} 22:41, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Gas barbeque (or braai)

I have just bought a gas braai - that is what we call it here in South Africa - also known as barbeque. It has a gas cylinder attached to a device that allows a controllable open flame - like a gas stove I guess. The grill where the food goes is about 10 cm above the open flame. Question: is it safe to sprinkle water on the meat to keep the meat moist while cooking? Is there any danger if water falls on the open gas flame? Any danger when fat from a sausage falls on the flame? It throws quite a flame up when it does. Any other safety considerations I need to watch for? Thanks Sandman30s 11:39, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Here is a link for safety. [4]. We, in North America, have been blowing ourselves up for decades with these things. Number one thing is lighting it. Don't let the gas build up, or light with the lid down. Lost a few eyebrow hairs that way.... --Zeizmic 13:19, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, watch out for Carbon Monoxide buildup, too. The velociraptor 14:19, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Gas "barbecues" often use a layer of volcanic rock or ceramic briquettes to allow the slow indirect cooking required for barbequeing. (It also helps keeps the grease and water out of the burner) Gas grills (for grilling) don't have these and are like a gas stove. Rmhermen 15:01, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Hmm? Mine sure does. --jpgordon^∇∆∇∆ 16:45, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

There are rocks in your grill? You got some funky cooker there. Philc _T^E_C^I 18:34, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Not at all! Look at our gas grill parts article, especially the section "Rock Grates". Or, for that matter, any website selling grills; Weber doesn't use ceramic or stone, but quite a few manufacturers do. --jpgordon^∇∆∇∆ 18:59, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

There is absolutely no danger whatsoever in sprinkling water over your sausages. In fact it sounds like a most excellent idea. Pouring water, of course, would be highly inadvisable. -- Chris 17:02, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks people for all the tips. Still a little confused about my new grill. My old one had the volcanic rocks as described and I used to turn on the gas and light it manually. The new one has an open flame that lights with a simple click (spark?) of the switch after turning on the gas. The people I bought it from claim that most new gas braais are like this. The grilling article does not really state that there is a different type of foodstuff that should be braaied over an open flame as opposed to rocks or briquettes. I also have a gas cylinder device that lights around the rim and cooks food on a detachable enamelled iron surface, but this is certainly no grill. Kadak have been making these things for decades here as well. Now there is competition locally between Jetmaster and Kadak. Also concerned about where I should store it. Hear horror stories about them blowing up and burning houses down. Should also not store it in direct sunlight or rain. Seems an awfully dangerous thing to have around for what it does. Sandman30s 19:18, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Barbecue, grilling and Regional variations of barbecue discuss different usages of terms. Where I am from barbequing takes hours over low, indirect and smoky heat will grilling takes minutes over direct flame or high heat. Quite a different final result. And millions of LP tanks are simply stored outdoors - they are rarely a problem. (Unless you shoot at them or hit the valve with a hammer, sort of thing.) Keep it out of the weather and it will last longer. Rmhermen 20:21, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

The danger is greater with young children. Always keep an eye on the bbq and one on the child. -- DLL ^{.. T} 22:37, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

It's an open flame and a pressurized tank of flammable gas. Of course there are safety issues. But don't be overly worrisome: learn the basic safety techniques (Google BBQ SAFETY and you will quickly find them) and then enjoy some tremendous food! You can cook all the same foods over gas grills as you can over charcoal. Be sure to familiarize yourself with the difference between direct and indirect exposure to the heat - some foods are best cooked directly over the flame, while others are better suited to indirect heat (accomplished by placing the food away from the flame and closing the lid of the BBQ to let it build up heat). :I highly recommend Weber's Big Book of Grilling as a crash-course in BBQ with lots of spectacular recipes. dpotter 00:08, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

10:10 clock setting

Why are new clocks displayed in jewelry stores set to the time 10:10.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.29.79.146 (talk • contribs)

OK I have heard the answer to this but I was looking for the whole story. It is the time our last President was shot. Before Kennedy the clocks were set to the time Lincond was shot. Does anybody know the real story?

This has been asked before. The main reasons seem to be that (a) it is symmetrically pleasing to the eye and (b) it allows the name of the clockmaker to be clearly displayed. --Richardrj ^{talk email} 13:32, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

And what do you know, we have an article on it: 10:08. Mention of which enables me to ask a question of my own. Why are times of less than ten minutes past the hour always written with a leading zero, e.g. 10:08, 5:05. That zero serves no purpose. The number after the colon (or decimal point, sometimes) is just the number of minutes past the hour. So these times should be written 10:8, 5:5 and so on. --Richardrj ^{talk email} 13:44, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

I can only think it is a typographical convention. I think railway timetables will be some of the oldest things to have had need to write lists of times. (Docuemnt before that, I hazard, would tend more to the "ten past two of the clock" text strings. It would be interesting to find some pre-1800 stage-coach timetables, though.) Reaching back to 1881, we see the convention observed by the Central Pacific Railroad, for instance. --Tagishsimon (talk)

When I was a kid I remember the Radio Times (which I studied religiously) used to write 5.5 for 5.05, but I've never seen it written that way anywhere else. --Richardrj ^{talk email} 14:24, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

It's natural law, actually. ISO 8601, to be specific. —Bromskloss 16:03, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

My guess for the leading "0" is to avoid confusion. That way you know the printer hasn't dropped a digit in error, 10:3 could be 10:03 or 10:30. CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 16:37, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

It's also useful for aligning times in a table so hours, minutes, and seconds line up, and for sorting them electronically. Overall, the leading zero is a very good idea. StuRat 20:05, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

And as I've come to expect on Wikipedia these days, there is an article already at leading zero! -- Chuq 00:32, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

And btw, it has absolutely nothing to do with JFK or any other person. JFK was shot at 12:30 pm. JackofOz 23:25, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

peak district

how can I get to the Peak District from London is there a train ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.174.159.34 (talk • contribs)

Did you read Peak District#Transport? CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 16:14, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

It rather depends exactly where in the Peak District you want to get to, but travelling by train from London, you would probably need to go either to Manchester or to Sheffield and then take the local Hope Valley Line which connects the two cities.--Shantavira 16:43, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Of course you could get to Buxton by changing trains at Stockport, rather than going all the way into Manchester. I'm not sure if the Manchester-Sheffield trains aren't also routed through Stockport. -- Arwel (talk) 22:51, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

yea there's nothing at all in the transport section about getting to the district from lonodn! thanks for the suggestions.

It may not be there in exactly the form you were looking for, but it states pretty clearly that Sheffield and Manchester are the nearest large towns, so it's not exactly a gigantic leap from there to working out that you would have to go to those places from London. --Richardrj ^{talk email} 08:37, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Although you don't have to book, this site may give you some ideas of duration and time os train journeys: http://www.gnertickets.co.uk/ -Stubblychin

frost wire not working

my frost wire is not working i log in and it never gets past starting connection. i have already tried your ideas on trying to work aroung the fire wall nothing has worked. please help not sure what to do?

If this is a computing question, you might fare better at the computing desk.--Shantavira 18:18, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Why are dogs traditionally walked to the owner's left

In almost all dog training books, and all dog training television programmes, the dog is walked to the left of the owner. Is there a technical reason for this? If not technical, is there some other viable reason?

So you can enforce short lead working with the right (stronger in most people) hand?--Light current 18:17, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

no original research please, light current.

No honestly, Ive seen it on TV (Dog Borstal) where you pull on a short lead to direct the dogs attention from something (like other dogs or toys or peoples legs) Anyway didnt you see the ? 8-)--Light current 23:46, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

I saw another edition of 'Dog Borstal' tonite. Fascinating! Some owners walked their dogs on the right!--Light current 02:28, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

leadership /governance

I have heard a new term being used in regards to Board Governance (how Boards of Directors govern/lead agencies/corporations) the term is : Generative Governance. I am searching for authors/articles etc. to assist me in understanding this concept. Thank you for your assistance! Dianne --Dianne belliveau 21:32, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Bass

Who is the greatest and most influential electric bassist in rock music history?

• Well, some would say Carol Kaye; but more would say James Jamerson (unless you've got a limited definition for "rock".) --jpgordon^∇∆∇∆ 00:13, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

This unsigned question is invalid. There is no objective standard by which the "greatest anything" may be named. (Largest, yes; greatest, no.) The best that can be done is to have folk name those who are, in their opinion, great and influential. Also, BTW, "great" and "influential" are by no means synonymous. B00P 00:13, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

There's no agreed-upon answer to that; many people have made contributions to the use of the bass guitar in rock, and trying to weigh them up is an impossibl task. See our electric bass article which mentions some bassists whose styles have been highly influential.

It also depends on how you phrase the question. Paul McCartney is an enormously influential artist, and an influential bassist, but his contribution to the art of the bass guitar is arguably secondary to his achievements as a songwriter and arranger (particularly in the collective efforts of he, the other Beatles, and George Martin). --Robert Merkel 00:13, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

This question has no factual answer and therefore cannot be answered. I propose it is deleted along with the existing responses.--Light current 00:39, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Y'know, if you want to start deleting irrelevencies from the reference desk pages, you might discover that smartass remarks and snappy answers are high on the list of such irrelevencies. --jpgordon^∇∆∇∆ 16:48, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

THat is one of the penalties of censorship, but at least is stops discussion going off on a tangent like this is now doing. 8-(--Light current 18:05, 3 November 2006 (UTC)--Light current 18:05, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

And why is it a bad thing for discussions to go off on tangents here? Anyway, if the question were framed, "who are among the most influential bassists" then one could indeed state a factual answer; so let's assume questions of the form "who is the best/most influential/etc" of anything can usefully be answered and discussed as who could be considered candidates for such superlatives. --jpgordon^∇∆∇∆ 04:28, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Les Claypool of Primus, is the undisputed king of bass, no one, no one plays as well, as fast and as technical as him, and he does it while singing! But the acctual quality of the song writing is rather limited, especially of the album Sailing on a sea of Cheese. Its not the kind of thing you would listen to, but if you wanna learn how to play bass VERY WELL, then he could probably give you a tip or two. but you would have to be exelent already. He really is the best!

I have been influenced by Tony Levin more than any other bassist in rock music history. dpotter 00:01, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

In my opinion, although this probably wouldn't help you, Nikki Sixx in my opinion is one of the best ever. Temp 16:06, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

November 3

More bass

Just something I've always wondered. If a person can play the bass guitar, does that mean that they could also play the double bass without much extra effort? --Kurt Shaped Box 01:06, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

No, other than both being string instruments I don't think they have much in common. A cello , viola or even violin would be closer to the double bass. StuRat 02:41, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

You'd have an advantage over a complete novice at some things: having the basic musicality you've acquired while learning to play the bass guitar, knowing intervals, how far along the string you have to move to change an interval, and so forth. But in other ways you'd have a lot to learn: how to use the bow, and how to be perfectly in tune without frets to guide you are a couple of things. Producing a beautiful sound is a rather different challenge on a non-electric instrument. So it's mixed.  :) Antandrus (talk) 02:46, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Aha. Now its funny you should ask that one! I played bass guitar for about 25 yrs then decided I would like to try something different. So I took up the EUB. In fact thats mine in the article. Whilst mine is not exactly the same as the Double bass I did find it relatively easy to adapt to because mine has a 36" scale length compared with the 34" of a bass guitar and the 42 " scale length of a DB.

I find that I can play the EUB with essentially the same fingering as the bass guitar. I cant use a bow on my EUB altho' you can on some versions. You are correct that you have to learn to use your ears more and always be on the look out for bad intonation, but the improved tone is more than worth the extra hassle. Actually after a while its not a hassle but a satisfation in getting the note perfectly in tune and saying to your self 'I made that note-- all by myself, no frets!'--Light current 03:09, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Of course it makes a big difference if you bow it or pluck it. DirkvdM 07:34, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

I took one of my old electric basses and levered the frets out recently with the back of a claw hammer, and filled in the resulting gaps with filler. Not recommened on an expensive bass, but it has worked ok and seems to be an instrument some way inbetweem an electric and double bass...it sounds a lot like a double bass now, especially around the higher registers. --Amists 11:29, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

The standard tuning on a double bass is the same as the standard tuning on a bass guitar. My son played electric bass for about a year and a half before I bought him a double bass, and he was able to play it right away. Of course, he has an excellent ear, which is necessary for correct intonation. --Shuttlebug 22:58, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

That is truly amazing considering the 20% increase in scale length. How did he learn the new positions and the different fingering in zero time?--Light current 00:11, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

I play both the electric and upright bass; the tuning is the same, but it takes some time to get used to bowing and the distance between notes. Because I also play violin, I simply jumped on a string bass and started playing. It's not that hard even with no bowed instrument experience; you'll figure it out in 30 minutes to 1 hour tops. It also helps to be able to read Bass Clef Good luck. Sturgeonman 00:30, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

When you jumped on it, did it break?--Light current 01:18, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

M*A*S*H

On the television series (maybe the movie too, I haven't seen it in a while) M*A*S*H, the door to The Swamp has a symbol on it. It looks like a trident that is pointed down and it is roughly 2 1/2 - 3' in height. There is no handle, just the tines. The outer tines are somewhat curved and would make a rough oval shape if they were to connect and they also have a number of triangular "teeth" on the outer edges of the tines. The middle tine has something that resembles a split on the end of it so it's a bit forked. I can't find a picture of it on the net right now. Does anyone know what this symbol meant or why it would be on the door to the tent? Dismas|^(talk) 01:33, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

This page says it is a North African symbol meant to ward off the evil eye. Someone talks about a variation of the symbol here, and gives a little more background. --Cam 02:04, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

There's a picture of a Maugham symbol on this page. --Cam 02:13, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Cool! Thanks! Dismas|^(talk) 02:41, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Square county/state

Are there any perfectly or NEAR perfectly square counties in America? Thanks! 81.93.102.50 18:18, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Iowa seems to have a lot. See Image:Iowa counties with names.jpg. howcheng {chat} 18:57, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Holy spanking! Thanks, that's.... immense. 81.93.102.50 19:14, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Google search for "perfectly square county" produces claims that the following are perfectly square: Walworth County, Wisconsin, Trumbull County, Ohio, Newton County, Mississippi. Also there are a lot of square looking counties in and around the Texas Panhandle. Dave6 19:43, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

There isn't really such a thing as a "perfect square" (or a "perfect rectangle" for that matter) on the surface of a sphere. The original surveying of land in much of North America was based on boundaries running north-south and east-west. An area with boundaries aligned that way has equal-length sides on the east and west, but (since we are in the Northern Hemisphere) the north side is slightly shorter than the south side. If you wanted the opposite sides to be equal, you could have that, but then they could not run straight north-south and east-west; in practice this was not done, because the north-south and east-west boundaries allow things to fit together nicely.

For example, I find on the web that Colorado's boundaries follow along 102° and 109° west longitude, and 37° and 41° north Latitude. Taking the Earth (for simplicity) to be a sphere of circumference 40,000 km, the south side of the state is then 40000×(7/360)×cos 37° = 621 km = 386 miles long, while the north side (changing 37 to 41 in the formula) is only 587 km or 365 miles.

Of course, the difference will be less for a smaller area, like a county. Presumably these counties each have sides that are straight north-south and east-west, and are very close to equal length. Which meets the original poster's requirements.

--Anonymous, 04:48 UTC, November 4.

A riddle I forgot

I remember that there is this famous riddle that I think Wikipedia has a page on, but I forgot the riddle. I think it's unsolvable or something unless u attack the syntax of the question. Anyone know what the riddle is? Jamesino 02:16, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Gry? Hyenaste ^(tell) 02:22, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, I don't think it's that one. Jamesino 02:33, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Its the one that relies on formal logic to solve it.--Light current 02:39, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

HAve you checked Category:Riddles to see if its there? CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 05:15, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

The one with the $30 and the missing $1? BenC7 03:46, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Could be the motel one above. There you deliberately mis-state the premise when posing the question and hope the listener buys into your erroneous arithmatic. They usually do. --Justanother 00:57, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

End of Wikipedia

What will bring about the end of Wikipedia? (apart from spontaneous combustion of all the servers) --Light current 02:36, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

What are the possible scenarios that could bring about the end of Wikipedia? (apart from spontaneous combustion of all the servers) --Light current 19:21, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

The end of the internet, of course.  :-) Marco polo 02:39, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

When I gather enough seagulls together in one place and collapse their mass to create a black hole. --Kurt Shaped Box 02:40, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Look we've already discussed that topic (a few weeks ago). Minus 20 points!--Light current 02:44, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

You mean it hasn't already ended? --Justanother 02:41, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Yes. Alphabetagamma 03:48, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Humor and side discussions are fine, but this question also deserves a serious answer, does anybody have one ?

--Light current 04:13, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

• The Wikipedia reference desk works like a library reference desk not a crystal ball. Its purpose is to respond to questions requiring facts. --hydnjo talk 04:26, 3 November 2006 (UTC) addendum: My response is no longer valid as Lc has significantly altered the original question. BTW, if the context of a question is to be altered then it should be stricken and posed again with the new time/date so as to add context to responses to the original question. --hydnjo talk 19:15, 3 November 2006 (UTC) addendum 2: Well done and thank you Lc. --hydnjo talk 19:34, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

It will end when people post funnybut templates CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 05:13, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Yep, funnybut templates it is. Couldn't that image be made with vector graphics, by the way? —Bromskloss 11:46, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

That looks like a very tricky graident, it fades in 2 directions. but probably, if the font is available as a vector font --froth^{T C} 20:03, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

A spontaneous combustion of all the servers wouldn't end Wikipedia either becausse there are loads of copies on other servers and on cd or dvd and even if those would be lost somehow, people would just start all over again. So Marco Polo is right, only the end of the Internet would end Wikipedia. That is, it would stop being developed, but people would find different ways to spread the copies around. DirkvdM 07:37, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Unless, of course, Wikipedia ends because there is a nuclear holocaust or some other natural disaster.

A more pertinent question - would there ever be a lack of hosting funds? Sandman30s 09:14, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

I am convinved I saw a page a year or so ago that listed several possible ways for Wikipedia to end. Sadly, I've never managed to find it again. Does anyone here remember this, or know where the page is? Carcharoth 12:13, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

This sort of has a list, but it's not that long. – AlbinoMonkey ^(Talk) 12:22, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

I could picture Wikipedia becoming obsolete once we all have brain implants that allow us to know the answer to any question by thinking of the question, and having a computer search a repository of all human knowledge (all books ever written, etc.) for the answer. This technology might take a year or two to develop, however. :-) StuRat 19:54, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Yes but the implant would need an efficient 'bullshit filter' 8-)--Light current 21:13, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

When fanboy cruft comprises 97% of the content. Are we there yet? --Justanother 23:29, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Hmmm. Good point. What is the solution?--Light current 00:21, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

The end of Wikipedia approaches as the proportion of pointless articles increases. If you look at 20 articles via "random article" how many are worth reading, i.e. "verified and notable knowledge" and how many are crap? I just did the experiment and found 5 of 20 remotely interesting or useful. The rest were info-void stubs, vanity, spam about someone's grade school or unknown rock band or a stub about a state highway. The best hope for Wiki is to work out sensible guidelines as to what is encyclopedic, then eliminate the WP:VSCA "vanispamcruftisements," WP:CB "complete bollucks" stuff only tenuously connected to reality, or WP:NFT "things made up in school one day." Edison 00:38, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

That's a rather unreasonable standard, to be able to pick articles at random and find them all of personal interest to you. How many paper encyclopedias would meet that standard ? If there are lots of articles which don't interest you, don't read them, they don't do you any harm. Many of those items you mentioned likely interest quite a few people, although not the majority. StuRat 05:34, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

So you marked the other 15 with a {{verify}} or {{cleanup}} or {{prod}} tag, right? -- Chuq 03:22, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

That sounds like a deletionist argument 8-)--Light current 00:45, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Citizendium may become so better than Wikipedia that it (Wikipedia) will eventually make no sense anymore...A.Z. 03:05, 4 November 2006 (UTC) (I wrote this, but had not signed)

Wikipedia will end with a mass exodus of most of it's users after some policy fight. That or when people realize that they cannot act on a neutral point of view as viewed from various talk pages and Afd's. I know it will involve a mass exodus. Pacific Coast Highway ^{{Gobble Gobble! • Happy Thanksgiving!}} 03:28, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

ZZZZZ. Howard Train 05:45, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

No ones mentioned the fact that it might be sold off and then broken up or supressed.--Light current 09:58, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Surely Wikipedia will end when every single encyclopaedic fact ever known has been added and edited to perfection. Keep working guys... Lemon martini 00:10, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

But there are always things happening in the world that affect Wikipedia's content. For example a new TV series is released, we make an article about it. Stuff happens and we edit existing articles to include information about whatever. That and edit wars means Wikipedia will never be static as long as it exists, unless it stops being a wiki. If it stops being a wiki we can all call it Pedia. :) Oh and to answer the question there's hundreds of ways Wikipedia could end:

• Not enough funding to host the server
• A world energy crisis means there's not enough electricity to waste on it
• Nuclear holocaust
• For some reason or another no-one bothers with Wikipedia anymore and there becomes not enough people to manage it or for it to be effective
• End of the Internet
• Annihilation of the human race, say by a deadly virus spread by a fast-spreading airborne extremophilic bacterium or numerous other causes

  That wouldn't mean the end of Wikipedia, it would just mean editing stagnated until some other sentient species showed up, turned the power plants back on, rebooted the Internet, found the site and learned how to read English. NeonMerlin 22:44, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

• Sun will expand into a red giant and consume the Earth
• End of the universe
• For all you know, everything that exists could be destroyed at any instant in time. You can't prove with absolute certainty otherwise! --WikiSlasher 12:22, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

besides a nuclear holocaust and the end of the universe....I think the most likely is that something 'cooler' comes along and users just...start ignoring wikipedia! that would be sad...--Cosmic girl 16:45, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

If wikipedieschatology's your thing, you might like to check out Wikipedia:Last topic pool. NeonMerlin 22:47, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Statute of limitations for a transaction

That i really should consult a lawyer notwithstanding, could anyone shed any light on whether an agreed financial transaction has a statute of limitations under law in Caliornia? So here is the deal. I agreed a fee of around $7000 for a service. The service was provided to my satisfaction and i provided my debit card to the provider as per our contract. However, the provider did not debit my account with the amount we had agreed, on the date our contract stated payment was due. Over a month has passed and the amount has still not been taken. I'm beginning to wonder whether they have forgotten completely and am wondering whether i should contact them to remind them or just wait and see what happens. Now, what i would like to know is this: am i legally liable for the amount i owe him forever - so he could wait 10 years then demand the money from me - or at some point in time does his claim expire? Thanks. Rockpocket 06:54, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

As stated above, we do not give legal advice, and it would be generally useless, since laws vary all over the place. In general, you may have to show you made a reasonable effort to inform them, such as a registered letter. That way they can't come back at you for interest charges. The debt can stand for a very, very long time, as many court cases have shown. --Zeizmic 13:12, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Assuming that you do not want to cheat the provider of a service that you are satisfied with; you should contact your bank and ask their advice. Perhaps the bank will contact him for you. If your question is about cheating him out of his money - see a lawyer. --Justanother 13:57, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Don't worry about it. It's their responsibility to bill you, not the other way around. Eventually, the statute of limitations will run out. As for interest, I doubt if they would have any right to that so long as it was their negligence that caused the delay in collection. You can contact them to be a "good guy", but I doubt if you have any legal responsibility to do so. StuRat 19:45, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Right and, when the cashier gives you the wrong change, just put it in your pocket and walk out. Never mind that the error might come out of their pay (like it did when I worked as a cashier many years ago) and never mind that the owner of firm may really need that $7000 (and the lose comes out of his pocket). --Justanother 19:49, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

My statement was about legal responsibilities, which are quite distinct from moral responsibilities. However, since you bring it up, do business owners deserve to be protected from the results of their own incompetence ? This will result in relatively more incompetent business owners, which could have other negative consequences (say when they chain all the emergency exits closed). I would definitely argue that cashiers who are incapable of giving the correct change should find another line of work, or, at the very least, should learn to double-check their work to avoid expensive mistakes. StuRat 19:58, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

The divorcing of "legal responsibilities" from "moral responsibilities" has led to, well, let's not get into that. In an ideal world there might be little difference, especially if we term "moral responsibilities" to be nothing more than Golden Rule. Every question of behaviour has moral implications, this one much more than most. I am of course moralising to a poster that asked a legal question but when has introducing a tangent ever stopped us here? --Justanother 20:08, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

I ask myself if the table was turned, and i had paid my money but neglected to collect the goods/service as we had agreed in our contract, would the vendor go out of his or her way to ensure i got my service a month later? I seriously doubt it, infact i know if i went to demand it a month late I would probably be penalised for breaking the contract. I have no intention of trying to actively avoid paying the agreed fee, but i really don't see why i should go out of my way to help a business that can't even complete a simple credit card transaction (not to mention one rich enough that can afford to lose $7K without even noticing). If that makes me a bad person, then so be it. Thanks for your opinions, though. Rockpocket 09:52, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

I agree with you, incompetence should be punished. StuRat 16:31, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Probably between 2-4 years. Will you be angrier when they come back in two years and demand payment? That's what they can do. As a moral question, you should make sure they get paid as soon as posssible. Remember, they did you a favor by taking debit/credit/check instead of cash. Tbeatty 16:38, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

No. The money is currently available for them to take whenever they choose and will remain that way. It is not a case of trying to stop them getting their money whatsoever, now or in the future. The reason I asked was because it is likely - for completely independent reasons - the banking arrangements the card is attached to may change in the future, and I wanted to know whether one would be legally obligated to keep that account open indefinately because there is an outstanding charge on it. For the record (because there is some debate here and elsewhere on the moral implications of this question on my character), i should make it clear that this situation is actually happening to my father-in-law at the moment and there was some debate in the family on both the moral and legal implications (I used the first person when asking the question simply for ease of communication). Thus its not my decision to make, and if it was i'm not entirely sure of what i would do. Though, since this is a business contract, i'm erring towards a business ethics point of view and that is: you are legally obligated to fulfil the terms of a contract, and ethically obliged to act in the spirit of that contract. The contract says:

"The vendor agrees to provide a statement of charges and credits within 10 days after the service is provided. The engager agrees to pay the balance on receipt of the statement within 7 days of receipt. The engager agrees to pay a finance charge of 1.75% per week on all charges due after that date."

Since no receipt was received (now 31 days after the service was provided) and no payment was taken on the card provided in advance for that purpose, the vendor has broken the terms of the contract. Bearing in mind that the financial penalty should the engager break the contract is clear, theoretically, my father in law could pursue the vendor for breaking the contract and attempt to withold at least a fraction of payment in administrative charges. That seems ethically wrong to me. However, it doesn't seem ethically wrong to me to simply continue to fulfil your side of a contract (like he has done in making the entire payment available without penalty) even when the vendor has failed to uphold theirs. Sure, I guess one could pursue the vendor (at his own cost and time) - but i wonder how many people who say that should be done in principle, would actually do it in practice if they were in the situation? Especially knowing that if the shoe was on the other foot the vendor would actually impose further financial penalties rather than go out of their way to help you! As i said, if it was my money I don't know what i would do, but i'm a firm believer in reciprocal altruism. So if i'm totally honest i would probably just leave the money available, wait it out and see what transpires (like I implied in my reponse above). I guess that doesn't quite reach the moral standards of some people, but i believe its easier to extol high morals than keep them (ask Ted Haggard) and would rather be honest but flawed, than a hypocrite (not to imply anyone who commented here is.) Its looking like my father-in-law is a better man than me, though, as informing him of this debate, he is now talking about giving the vendor a call this week. Sorry about the essay, but i thought i should set the record straight. Rockpocket 21:16, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

I think you read it wrong, you are the "engager" and they are the "vendor". So, the penalty is against you for not paying 7 days after the statement of charges and credits is provided. This seems rather one-sided, as they have no penalty listed for failing to bill in a timely manner and they also give themselves more time to bill you than you get to pay them. Also note that 1.75% interest per week, compounded, works out to an obscene annual rate of 147% (or a mere 91% without compounding). If you needed a reason to keep the money, such absurd terms should provide you with ample cause. On the other hand, they can always claim they billed you and you didn't pay, then try to extract that high interest rate from you. That would be hard for them to win in court if you can prove they were authorized to bill to your card, however. StuRat 06:21, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

I generally agree with you, though i'm not looking for reasons to not pay them. Its just that, on a matter of principle, I don't think I'd feel obliged to go beyond what is reasonably, contractually and legally expected of me to provide renumeration. Since they were willing and able to extortionately penalise my father-in-law for reneging on his side of the contract, I not sure i'd feel a moral obligation to do them a favour and essentially reward them by reminding them to take the money, when they reneged on theirs. Thats what i mean by reciprocal altruism. I understand the contract, my point was that a better alternative would be to remind the company, but deduct from the amount owed the same amount of interest they would have charged. This seems the most balanced way to deal with it and in some ways I would actually prefer this option (except it could be considered punitive and thus perhaps ethically unjustifiable). However, since those terms are not stipulated in the contract, the vendor would simply refuse to accept the deduction and demand the full amount after the reminder. From my point of view, the money that I would gain is not even the motivating factor. I would do the same whether it was $7 or $7000. Infact, if there was a statute of limitations, I would prefer to hold the money until then and donate it to charity after its expiration, than reward a company (who penalises others for breaking contracts) for breaking a contract itself. Rockpocket 07:41, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Cool, and kudos to your dad-in-law. It is not always easy to stand by our moral principles and temptation can be mighty tempting. I had two in recent years and, despite temptation, managed to do the right thing. The recent was sending Dell back a laptop I did not pay for and a bit further back, the other was not cashing a duplicate $1000 refund check from a cell phone provider. I will not say that I was not tempted in both cases because certainly Dell and ATT "can afford it better than me". --Justanother 21:25, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

wsup

u guyz are awesome..thanks for all the help u give us for answering our questions.the question bout the first pre historic animal on a show,,,cud the answer be the flinstones or sumthin by hanna barbera?

I don't know about TV-shows, and couldn't find anything older than The Flintstones in the article on Dinosaurs in popular culture, but Gertie the Dinosaur (1914) is a milestone of animated film history. ---Sluzzelin 09:00, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Also, the old King Kong movie included dinosaurs... 惑乱 分からん 10:56, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

According to dionosaur.org it was D. W. Griffith with Man's Genesis that is the first known movie with a dionosaur in it. This is followed by his Brute Force (check out the dinosaurs name) in 1913. They do say though that there may have been others before that. CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 12:01, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Here's a 1917 Edison dinosaur movie you can download free:[5] Edison 21:24, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Sour cream

Can you freeze sour cream, thaw it, and have it taste the same as sour cream that you just bought "fresh"? Or does the freezing and thawing do something to it which is undesirable? Dismas|^(talk) 11:39, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Don't know about the taste but google says no. AS does this, this and this. CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 12:06, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Usually, you can't freeze anything that is a colloid, or a colloidal gel. The freezing disrupts structure, and separates the components. --Zeizmic 13:07, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

I've done it, and yes, it does tend to separate, but stirring will fix that problem. StuRat 19:30, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Okay, thanks! Dismas|^(talk) 21:18, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

This is a bit late, but it also depends on the ingredients in the sour cream. If it's proper sour cream - just cream and various bacterial cultures - it will likely separate. If it's that locust bean gum-laden gel that they try to pass off as sour cream at the supermarket, it won't separate per se, but it might lose its texture and become thin. --Charlene 07:05, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

To prove a single status to get married outside the U.S.

I live in Buffalo, New York and I need help to apply the following certificate/letter: 1. A marriage letter/search issued by a Registrar General office to confirm that the marriage registration or there is no registration. 2. A non-impediment certificate issued by the federal office to confirm that I am free to marry because there exists no impediment to such marriage.

I look forward to receiving your reply.

Joseph

Dear Joseph, would you care to rewrite your question so that it makes sense? Do you want to "apply" a certificate or "apply for" one? By the way, I am unaware of any such thing. Who wants to see it? There is also no such thing as "the federal office." Marriages are matters of state law. Again, who wants to see such a thing? Where is it that you want to get married? What is your citizenship? Your bride's? B00P 14:23, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

For a non-citizen to get married, many (most?) countries require a Certificate of No Impediment to Marriage to prove that they are not already married. I applied for mine at the nearest British Embassy (I'm British), but if I still lived in the UK I would have been able to get it at my local register office. Presumably this would be the same for Americans, but you should ask the US Embassy of the country you want to get married in to make sure. Remember that if you pick up the certificate at home you may have to have it translated into the local language by some official agency (the embassy sorted all of that out for me). Ironfrost 08:32, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

By the way, the "Registrar General" is a Canadian office, and I suspect that Joseph wants to marry in Canada. Joseph, can you please answer BOOP's questions so that we can try to help? Marco polo 16:09, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Also, if you are trying to get these certificates from Canada, *what province* are you getting them from? The regulations and requirements are startingly different from province to province, even though the database itself is federal. --Charlene 07:03, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

currecny exchange

I have currencies x (S$) and y ($). I wish to get currency z (pound sterling).

ideally (given no commission or fee) is it EVER advantageous to convert x -> y -> z ?

If there are very small commissions and/or fees, is x -> y -> z ever better than the direct x -> z?

I assume not.....or else people would convert till it _did_ equalize/

No, it's never advantageous. If you can, always prefer direct conversions from x to z instead of going through y. Currency agencies always take a small cut from the currency they convert, either by a difference in buy and sell rates, or as a straight provision. It's how they make a living. So the more conversions you make, the more money you lose. JIP | Talk 15:06, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Yes there are advantages of "juggling currencies" on a large scale where the minute differences are multiplied to much exceed the trading fees. It is called arbitrage and can be a part of forex trading. --Justanother 15:23, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

excellent, I got both the practical answer and the economics theory answer in under an hour! Thanks guys.

You are very welcome! --Justanother 15:42, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

X > Y > Z is not strictly arbitrage. -THB 00:42, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

You would be trying to take advantage in an imbalance between the X > Y, Y > Z, and X > Z markets. While not what people traditionally think of as arbitrage it is still the same principle. --Justanother 02:02, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Two questions about global warming

(1) What are the two atomospheric effects of global warming? (2) Is the layer of gas thatmay be causing global warming close to the layer of ozone gases that protects us from the ulotraviolet radiation? (3) What does the word close mean in this situation?

We won't do your homework for you, but you can probably find the answers you need in Global warming. Philbert^2.71828 17:19, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

There are two types of air pollution that effect global warming:

1) Greenhouse gases, like carbon dioxide, allow light through but tend to reflect heat, holding the heat inside the lower atmosphere. This is the dominate effect.

2) Particulates, such as smoke, which tend to reflect or absorb sunlight in the upper atmosphere and thus prevent it from heating the Earth's surface and lower atmosphere. This is a lesser effect, somewhat reducing global warming. Unfortunately, pollution initiatives which focus on reducing particulates exclusively may actually worsen global warming. StuRat 19:20, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

who owns christmas songs..

hi, i'm hoping to put together a christmas covers charity album where local bands each choose a classic christmas song, cover it in their own way then record the collection of songs, design an album cover and package and sell the result with help from local radio stations to raise money for the homeless this christmas. the problem is, i'm sure there are copyright issues to deal with, it's just i can't seem to narrow down the record companies who own the copyrights for the songs. can you help.. thanks a million jeums194.46.252.83 18:35, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Some are old enough to be public domain songs, while others are not. Try looking up each on Wikipedia, or elsewhere, to find out who wrote them. If it's a recent song, then copyrights may well be an issue. StuRat 19:00, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

[After edit conflict] We cannot give legal advice, but as long as they are traditional Christmas songs you should be alright. Read our copyright article. (Haven't you left it a bit late for "this Christmas"?)--Shantavira 19:01, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Try contacting a music copyright collective like ASCAP. Rmhermen 21:40, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Acknowledging we do not give legal advice, check ASCAP and BMI. If by "traditional" you mean songs like Silent Night you can probably assume the song (if not a particular arrangement or performance) is public domain. If you are thinking Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer think again. You will probably need to find the copyright holder and follow the proper legal procedures, which might require obtaining rights and paying a royalty of so much per recording. The penalties are high in comparison to the royalties, and composers rightly love their payments. Edison 21:47, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

A little bit of searching will provide you with both lyrics and sheet music that are in the public domain. Some of them are available for free but most will charge under US$5 (or used to). These are usually scans of public domain sheets in PDF format. However, you must read the information on the site you buy the PDF from to see what their license agreement is for public performance and redistribution. As an example Sally De Ford provides free sheet music but it's her arrangment and requires you contact her for the commerical license. On the other hand Roger McGunn's might be providing free arrangments as his is available at Project Gutenberg. CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 23:48, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Terrorstorm

Several weeks ago, the entry for the documentary Terrorstorm was deleted. As I recall, notability was one of the issues. However, I believe that was a smokescreen.

However, the film has become available via "mainstream" sources (e.g., Amazon.com, Barnes & Noble) and is currently 17th on Amazon.com's DVD sales. [6]

I would like to repost an article for it. GeorgeC 18:45, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

It was redirected. The deletion log doesn't have anything too informative. But there is information on the page Terrorstorm redirects too (near the bottom). You might want to work on adding cites etc to that article first (?) --Cody.Pope 19:18, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, it looks like it used to go here: Alex Jones (radio)--Cody.Pope 19:21, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

I was just seeking permission from an administrator. GeorgeC 19:31, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

This is the Reference Desk. You want the Help Desk.--Shantavira 19:55, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Actually, the appropriate page is WP:DRV. User:Zoe|(talk) 03:46, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

touching an lcd screen

My screen is constantly dusty so I use my shirt to wipe it off... and every once in awhile of course I push a little too hard and make it "ripple". Can this damage the screen? "Common knowledge" says yes but I can't think of any reason why anything short of piercing the screen or smashing the front so hard that it damages the electronics under the liquid crystal should damage it in any way --froth^{T C} 20:07, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Its the glass you are slightly distorting putting stress on the liquid hence causing the color change. I dont think this causes any damage.--Light current 21:19, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

I don't mean like a calculator, I mean my laptop --froth^{T C} 23:31, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

This site indicates that it is possible to damage the screen by touching it. CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 23:53, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

pension?

As I approach 40 and have no pension apart from the uk state pension (uk resident), is it better to just invest in tax free ISAs (at 5%) rather than giving my money to some random pension company to invest it for me? The question is what will the difference in monthly returns be? Will a legitimate pension be worth the risk? TIA

This gets technical but addresses your issue, I think. Modern portfolio theory You are, of course asking about risk vs return. A weighty topic to be sure and one I am not expert on. There are tons of websites geared to the investor like Motley Fool. You should post on the boards at those sites. Not to say that someone here more knowledgable than I on the subject won't give you good advice, it is just beyond the scope of this forum, I think. --Justanother 23:25, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

This question is more suited to an Independent Financial Adviser who can take into account all the relevant circumstances. For example, the rate of return will depend on your attitude to risk, initial commissions, and your tax environment. Your tax situation will depend on your economic activity and conjugal situation. You also need to consider your spending requirements and need to access the capital when choosing between the two. Some ISAs have performed well over the medium to longer term, but some have failed miserably. Equally, some pensions have been very disappointing. -- zzuuzz ^(talk) 23:33, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

THe best approach IMO is a company pension scheme. Failing that, you can open a personal pension that has tax advantages on the contributions. Who to choose as your pension company is a very difficult question. Go see an IFA Oh BTW expect to put a very large amount in per month at your age 8-(--Light current 23:29, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

I have just retired aged 59 from the UK Civil Service with (thankfully) an index-linked pension that I earned over 32 years. Without that income, which amounts to 40% of my annual salary (but still subject to income-tax deductions), I would have had no other financial prospects other than the UK retirement pension, which is a variable sum depending on how many years of National Insurance a retiree has at (currently) 65 years of age. I don't want to alarm the questionner but I recently asked for a Pension Forecast from The Department of Work and Pensions and discovered that I will qualify at age 65 for the princely sum of £84 per week (taxable), and that is after contributing the full rate of N.I. for 43 years. You don't tell us what sum of contribution you could afford, but at 40 years of age, you will have to fork out a large bundle of your income in order to build up a respectable pension. So my advice would be to see a Financial Expert who is independent of any bank or other financial institution so that you get completely arbitrary advice. He will charge either an up-front fee or take a slice of any profits you make over the years from any of his recommended products. If you're unmarried at the moment, be very careful about changing that status as your spouse, should you subsequently divorce, will be entitled to a half share in any pension you do collect. Oh, you might want to consider buying Premium Bonds every month, which give you an excellent chance to win money without losing the capital. OK, you don't earn any interest so it's not an inflation proof investment but it does significantly lessen the risk of losing it all as with The National Lottery.

Though company pensions have added contributions, they can be seen as extremely risky. -- zzuuzz ^(talk) 23:33, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Life is extremely risky! 8-)

November 4

Question to smokers about addiction

A smoker in my philosophy class was discussing the addiction of smoking today. She seemed careless to it, and she unconvincingly told us (many times) that she's tried quitting and is trying. What does the addiction to cigarettes feel like? I was thinking about it and compared it to eating spicy foods with only water to quench your thirst. Milk or dairy products are better for stopping spicy foods, while water just spreads the spice around, but not before some temporary relief. Is this what it feels like to be addicted? Is it like a need you have that you temporarily quench with something that only makes it worse? 70.50.103.86 01:18, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

No, the relief is real, it's the guilty feeling that overcomes one after the fact that makes it worse. Have you read our addiction article? --hydnjo talk 03:10, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

What's your favorite food? Do you ever crave it, and if you have it nearby or have the money, would you not eat it? It's roughly like that for cigarettes, only I guess it might be more of a habitual behavior than a craving for food. At least, that's my take on it. --Wirbelwindヴィルヴェルヴィント (talk) 04:13, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Good job taking philosophy, a good high-level course will change your life --froth^{T C} 05:05, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

High level course? Over here, philosophy is a freshman level college course, I believe. --Wirbelwindヴィルヴェルヴィント (talk) 05:30, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

I wasn't saying that the high level course called philosophy will change your life, I was saying that a high level philosophy course (as opposed to a low level course) will change your life. I'm aware that philosophy courses range from basic logic all the way up through analyzing the Critique of Pure Reason and beyond, so I clarified by saying "high level" --froth^{T C} 23:09, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

:: I haven't smoked for over 20 years since I was told by a Consultant Cardiologist in Scotland that I could either smoke or live, but not both. And that was after having smoked 60 a day for the previous 20 years. The pain of giving up smoking was terrible, but I had only been married for a year or so and the choice was made for me by the doctor and my wife (and my conscience). The above responses do not begin to approach the torture of going without cigarettes. I cannot liken it to anything else including sex, food or booze(I have never used any other recreational drugs by the way). Your behaviour changes to being angry, irrational and moody. Eating and drinking do not satisfy the craving - that's the word - craving. I would not go to bed without making sure I had a full pack of 20 cigarretes in the bedside locker. If I went to the swimming pool, I would have to get out and go to the lockers for a quick smoke. I would smoke in between each course of a three-course-meal and sometimes during the meal itself. I was disgusting, but even knowing that, wasn't enough to stop me smoking. I reckon that at today's prices here in the UK, by not smoking 60 a day of my favourite brand, I have saved over £135,000, around $270,000 over the last 20 years - but I am emphatic in saying that had anyone told me 20 years ago how much money I could save by giving up cigarrets, I would not have been motivated to stop - only my health did that. Finally, in trying to answer to the question posed above, I do not consider myself a non-smoker - I still suffer the most awful withdrawal symptoms, and still say quite sincerely, "I am dying for a smoke", and for that reason, I dare not go into any enclosed space where smoking is permitted. Thank God that Scotland has now banned smoking in public places. I can once again go into pubs, clubs, cinemas, theatres, restaurants and public transport without the temptation of smoke in the atmosphere.White Squirrel 10:20, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Wow, that's hard-core. Great job on quitting! --Justanother 14:01, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Is it against Wikipedia rules or policy to submit information on an online game?

I added Ambar - War Of The Elementals into Wikipedia and others edited it and added to it and I thought it was all done very well, clean, and proper. Now when I look for it it is gone and I was wondering if I violated any policy by including an online game's information on this site. If I did, it was purely not intended to violate said policy, but I would like to know. I have never submitted or edited anything on wiki before and I only know the online game is family friendly and doesn't even have adult oriented advertisers.

So was it a proper inclusion, or a violation? Ambar has been around MANY years (Copyright ©1999-2006 Darklight Studios).— Preceding unsigned comment added by WildWindwolf (talk • contribs)

No, it is not against policy to put it and was probably not against to remove it. Re the removal of yours, the why is the philosophy of some editors and the how is the nature and process of wikipedia. The why is that many editors don't like fancruft and consider that it clogs wikipedia which they think should be more "serious". Such people may also be what is termed Deletionist but that is not only about fancruft but more about cruft in general. Other people are termed Inclusionists; they may not like cruft also but might not consider your game to be cruft. That was not intended to be a complete statement of those philosophies. Re the how: I won't tell you how to find out what happened to your article and how to put it back because that sort of info is addressed at the Help Desk. Three clues, though: WP:SPEEDY (misused if used here), WP:PROD, or WP:AfD. --Justanother 14:37, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

It was not speedy deleted, and was not deleted against policy. Please see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ambar. User:Zoe|(talk) 00:35, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

I, for one, never said it was. Note that most things that a deletionist might pull "just because" are actually pulled for other reasons. If Ambar were a well-written article then it might have done better in the AfD. --Justanother 00:40, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Formula 1 Grand Prix Racing

What is the name of the musical piece that is played at the end of the trophy presentation ceremony at every Formula 1 Grand Prix event, when the drivers are on the podium and spraying champagne ?

Who is the composer of this piece ?

Thanks,

Dr D Mitra59.94.242.75 14:21, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Georges Bizet - The Toreador Song - Phydaux 01:09, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Destemming Leaves

How could you remove the stems from a leaf?

With a scissors or a sharp knife like an X-acto, or just a single-edge razor blade? --Justanother 18:24, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Song in Jackass 2.

In the beginning of Jackass 2, when the cast is chased by bulls, a "classis like" song is played. What is this song called and who made it???

Our page on Jackass Number Two says it is "The Ecstasy of Gold" by Ennio Morricone. digfarenough (talk) 23:10, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Continental Airlines

I will be flying with CO from Glasgow to Newark, on their (I think) Boeing 757. Will I have my own television on this flight? Thanks, 81.131.129.177 20:04, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

We flew from Edinburgh to San Diego via Newark recently and found the flight to be rather basic (Economy Class). We were served food inclusive in our ticket price and could buy drinks but apart from that there were no added luxuries like TV sets either hanging from the roof or set in the back of the seat in front. The legroom was really tight and we found it most uncomfortable even though we are both shorter than 5'6". The staff were excellent and couldn't do enough for us and kept supplying us with free soft drinks and water. But unless you are upgrading to better seats I think you will be experiencing the same standards as we did. Have a safe flight. Oh, and be sure to use the toilet before you land as the queues at Immigration took us over 2 hours to get through.

The airline, seat class, and airline would all be critical info to figure this out. You should be able to call the airline and give them your flight number to get the specifics. StuRat 23:11, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

scenic painting term help!

my college professor gave us a scenic painting term...he didn't tell us how to spell it either...phonetically its spelled "shlapetka" ...if anyone can tell me how to spell it correctly and what it is that would be fabulous!

Here are some art glossaries:

• About.com
• Watercolourpainting.com (warning - cached)
• Tate gallery

Although none of them seem to have anything close to what you are asking about; I looked under s and c. Anchoress 20:38, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

It sounds sort of Russian, similar to шляпка (shlyapka), which is a Russian word for a small fur hat. You might ask at Talk:Russian culture. -- Rick Block (talk) 22:28, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

There are several words in Russian starting with "slepet-" which refer to blindness, being dazzled, or to dazzlingly bright light - would that make sense in context? The other possibility would be another eastern European language... there are various similar words in Czech: Chlapecka and Slapetka for two. But I can't seem to find any connections there, and my knowledge of Czech is approximately nil. I've also found a couple of Lithuanian websites with the word slepetka on them, but again no connection with landscapes. Grutness...wha? 23:14, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Exploding gas tanks

If i shoot a filled gas tanks of car with a pistol (M9 for example), will the car actually explode like depicted in movies? Jamesino 20:34, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Well remember that liquid gasoline is not "flammable" per se as there is no oxygen present. A filled gas tank is much less of an explosion hazard than an almost empty one. The little bit of vapor space in a filled tank is probably well over the upper flammable limit and will not burn (insufficient oxygen). Bet Mythbusters has tackled this one. --Justanother 20:55, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

To be quite clear though, no one on wikipedia reccomends that you actually try this experiment. Firearms and flamable materials always pose some risk. 48v 21:05, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Yep, MythBusters did tackle this one. Twice. The first time ended in a resounding "Busted", with single shots, short bursts, and eventually an entire clip being shot through the tank at once with no explosion. When revisited, even a firing squad using a whole bunch of different types of weapons couldn't ignite the fuel. In the end tracer rounds were used, which did manage to set the vehicle alight. So there you go :) GeeJo ^(t)⁄_(c) • 21:39, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

For more on this kind of think check out this site --froth^{T C} 23:03, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

It depends, if the people in the car are evil, it will detonate in a thermonuclear explosion if any one of the four tires should leave the ground, whereas if there are good people in the car it can fall to the bottom of the Grand Canyon and the occupants will emerge without a hair out of place.

In GTA San Andreas, the car does explodes when you shoot the gas tank so I would think it will explode in real life as well.--Taida 16:42, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Good point. --Justanother 18:42, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Note that video games really have nothing whatsoever to do with real life. Sort of like movies and other pop culture nonsense, video games are written to make you spend your hard-earned money on them, not to be realistic. --Charlene 01:02, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

What's an "Embarked voicemail box"?

I call a number and receive recorded voicemail telling me I've reached an "Embarked" (voice)mailbox. What is this?

Perhaps it's Embarq --Tcsetattr 05:53, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

On the other hand it could be someone is thinking of "embargoed" as in blocked. CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 05:46, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Countries of the world affected by flood and drought

As a starting point for a project, I need to find out about at least one country of the world that is typically affected by flood and drought during the year (for example, drought in summer and frequent floods in winter).

I know of local areas that fit into this category, but for the purposes of the assignment I need to focus on actual countries. (I thought Bangladesh was probably an option, but after reading carefully the article on Wikipedia, I realized that althought floods are definitely a major calamity, drought is not mentioned.) I would be grateful for any suggestions. Thanks in advance. --Hroswith 21:45, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

You might want a place where there is a river through a desert. The desert part has droughts, and those rivers tend to flood once a year. The Nile River flowing through Egypt might be an example. StuRat 21:55, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

India springs to mind. For much of the year, the climate is pretty parched, with temperatures of 32-45 celsius. When monsoon season comes around, the huge downpours tend to create some degree of flooding throughout the country. GeeJo ^(t)⁄_(c) • 22:00, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the kind help and suggestions. --Hroswith 13:21, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Singing fish..

is downloading mp3 from singing fish legal?

Are you talking about those plastic fish that are "mounted" on a wooden plaque and has a button below it that when you press it the fish starts wiggling and singing? Dismas|^(talk) 01:29, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Oddly that's mentioned at the Singingfish article. And no, of course not if you don't have liscense to it. Which for most music is a no. --froth^{T C} 03:36, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

If you mean Big Mouth Billy Bass, you should be able to d/l those from the legit services like iTunes. --Justanother 15:05, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

November 5

Poppy?

I watched a video link on CNN.com just now about some child porn arrests that were made in Canada. A couple of the people in the video had a red circle (flower?) with a black center on their lapels. Is this some sort of symbol for the fight against child pornography or its awareness? Or does it have some sort of Canadian symbolism? Dismas|^(talk) 01:02, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

The poppy is a symbol of remembrance that's worn on and a couple weeks before Remembrance Day (equivalent to the U.S.'s Veterans Day). Its symbolism stems from the poem In Flanders Fields. -- Consumed Crustacean (talk) 01:10, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

I knew that.... Hadn't thought about the date... Thanks, Dismas|^(talk) 01:24, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

You mean, Americans don't wear poppies for Remembrance Day (or Veterans Day)? --Bowlhover 03:45, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

No, we don't. If we wear anything it would be American flag lapel pins. StuRat 06:06, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Not true at all. The VFW and American Legion sell poppy lapel pins before both Memorial Day and Veterans' Day. User:Zoe|(talk) 21:10, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

BTW, it's a little misleading to equate Veterans' Day and Remembrance Day. True, they're on the same day, and presumably for the same reason (the armistice in WWI). But the emphasis on Remembrance Day is on hono(u)ring the war dead, which makes it more like Memorial Day. --Trovatore 08:00, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Shows how much I know about the US. What I do know is Canada. Remembrance day seems heavily emphasised up here, hence you won't find any media people without a poppy two weeks (or more) before November 11. Remembrance day ceremonies always seem to be well attended too. -- Consumed Crustacean (talk) 08:08, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

I really don't think that you are correct; rememberance sunday is about the living, not just the dead. You won't attend a rememberance sunday service without hearing the words 'remember the dead; don't forget the living'. Where do you think all the money from the selling of poppies goes? BTW what is veterans' day about? is it the same or different? MHDIV Englishnerd 13:23, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

The sense I got when living in Canada was that the emphasis of Remembrance Day (what's "Remembrance Sunday"? never heard of that) was on those who had died in wartime military service. In the States they are specifically remembered on Memorial Day. Veterans' Day tends to be for parades by veterans' groups, which seems to emphasize the living.

Really, though, neither day is very deeply felt in the States. Memorial Day in practice tends to be more important as the unofficial "start of summer", kind of like two-four in Canada. --Trovatore 18:34, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

See Remembrance Day and Remembrance Sunday. As usual, we have articles about them. -- Arwel (talk) 10:20, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

I don't think Remembrance Day is "deeply felt" by most people in Canada either -- although obviously it is for some, and I don't mean to demean them in any way. Some people get a day off work, but most don't; many people do nothing more than wear a poppy, and many more don't even do that.

One possibly interesting bit of trivia: the preferred time for Remembrance Day ceremonies in Canada is 11 AM. This copies British practice and commemorates the time the Armistice took effect on November 11, 1918 — in the time zone then used in France as well as Britain, but not, of course, in Canada. (Nor in Germany, where it was noon.) The fact that it was "the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month" was a pure coincidence; the Armistice actually specified a 6-hour delay before fighting would end, the final negotiations finished a little after 5 AM French time, and they decided that since the time was critical, it was best to rounded off to 5:00 to minimize confusion.

--Anonymous, the 21st hour (British time, rounded to minimize confusion) of the 5th day of the 11th month.

I think the wearing of poppies around 11/11 is somewhat macabre. People wear poppies because of the poem; poppies are mentioned in the poem because they grow on top of dead people. Isn't that a little on the creepy side? -- Mwalcoff 21:44, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

It may seem a bit wierd for an American, but it's just a coustom to wear the poppies from a couple of weeks before rememberance sunday; it is a sign of new life springing up from death, if you see pictures of flander's field or any other poppy-supporting ex-battle grounds, you will understand the touching significance of them. And they raise a lot of money for the Royal British Legion! Englishnerd 22:35, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

You don't have Remembrance Day on the 11th, always? (I ask because you say "Remembrance Sunday" and not "Remembrance Day" - it's always on the 11th in Canada). --Charlene 01:06, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

But were the poppies that John McCrae saw at Flanders there before people were buried? He wrote the poem in 1915 only 10 months after the start of WWI. CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 05:41, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Roseanne being 80s

Does Roseanne count as an 80s show?

Roseanne aired from October 18, 1988 to May 20, 1997. You decide. ×Meegs 01:48, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

I would certainly say it's an 80s show and a 90s show, considering it aired in both decades. --Wirbelwindヴィルヴェルヴィント (talk) 02:00, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Removing Caffeine From Coffee Beans

How can you remove the caffeine from green coffee beans? I read of a swiss treatment of putting them in hot water but when I did that and left it overnight I was just left with murky colored water, was the caffeine and flavors in the water, possibly and that is what changed the color?

Unsigned, but merged by --froth^{T C} 03:38, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Yes, Swiss Water Process (SWP). SweetMarias, a great coffee resource, describes it here. They are not impressed. --Justanother 04:28, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

How does it become caffeine powder and is it the powder they use in sodas?

population of the living compared to the dead

Laurie Anderson says that we passed the moment sometime in the early fifties when there were more people alive than dead. I was shocked to hear this. My friend however says that there can never have been more dead than alive, because he reasons if you start with 2 and then get 4 and so forth it grows so fast that....well, what do you think? Are there more now? and how can we figure it out?

Yes, I agree, it's not possible. I believe the estimate is that somewhere around 7% of the people who have every lived are currently alive and 93% are dead. StuRat 04:14, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

This has been asked so many times, including Sept. 27 (in the Science category). Rough estimates put the total number of people who ever lived at somewhere in the neighborhood of 100 billion. So there are more dead than alive. Clarityfiend 05:18, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

This is barely worth adding, but hey what are the referenced-desks for...I recall reading somewhere that half the people who every lived are alive. Looking at the world population page this doesn't seem particularly likely - their historic graph shows world population at 6bn now with estimates for the past.

Simplistically speaking if we took the population at the start of each AD century (which is very generous) and add them together we get something like 7.5bn - you could no doubt very safely double that (since live spans are nowhere near 100 years). I think, therefore, that maybe anywhere up to 20% of the population of mankind is alive, but that would be a very very rough guess. Good question though ny156uk 11:28, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Snopes is your friend.--Shantavira 14:04, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Not a Cat

There is a game you play where you have to get people to mention things without using key words associated with them (forget the name, taboo or articulate or something). Anyhoo the question was this" If I were trying to get people to say 'dog' I would probably say "not a cat" and people will regularly say "dog" as if they are the opposite of each other (if you said "not hot" people would assume 'cold'). Is there a specific term for things that become associated as opposites but are actually not?

Silly Sunday question I know but hey ho. ny156uk 11:44, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

The term is "association" or "word association", and our minds make those associations for many reasons. A common reason is that they are often used in phrases together (men and women, salt and pepper, etc). Opposites like hot and cold are a small subset of the larger universe of associations for all reasons. A term for commonly associated opposites is antonyms. alteripse 11:52, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Actually a similar question was asked a few months ago on RD. Apparently there is a specific word for "this and that" pairs that are almost an entity unto themselves; don't remember what it is offhand but I'll take a look. Anchoress 12:52, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

I believe the name is Taboo (game). StuRat 20:59, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

That's the name of the game, but he's asking for the term that's the basis of Taboo. --Wirbelwindヴィルヴェルヴィント (talk) 23:31, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Interesting notion that cats and dogs are somehow opposites. In many modern-day households they are often found together. JackofOz 00:46, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Interesting notion that males and females are somehow opposites. In many modern-day households they are often found together. Sorry, I had to. --Wirbelwindヴィルヴェルヴィント (talk) 02:12, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Saturday and Sunday

How can we be sure that the Sunday of the Gregorian calendar is the same as the original Lord's Day, or that the Saturday was the original Sabbath, as mentioned in Genesis and/or celebrated by early synagogues? Maybe what was Saturday then is now Wednesday. NeonMerlin 14:00, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Well, my opinion. Weeks are artifical divisions, not even related to something in nature like month is an approximation of moon phase (though some speculate it may have been noted as a 1/4 of the moon phase). But likely, and certainly for our purposes, week is Biblical as the six days of creation plus the day of cessation (God obviously not needing to "rest"). So to be "correct" in the sense of your question, we would have to have continuity of recording weeks back to creation. Obviously that is impossible. No, I think the Lord's Day would simply be taken to be the first day (Sunday) of whatever system of dating weeks is being used and the Sabbath is the last day (Saturday) (see Week#Liturgical week) and that would be entirely correct. In other words, their position is relative to your week, not to some fixed point in time. --Justanother 14:55, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

• From the article you link to "The last day of the Julian calendar was Thursday 4 October 1582 and this was followed by the first day of the Gregorian calendar, Friday 15 October 1582". Given that 10 days were taken out of the calendar, and the 15th of October would have been a Monday if not for the deletion, then you're quite correct and it's all a bit of a farce as far as the correlation of days to dates are concerned. I suppose they would argue that since the continuity of the days was not altered then it is all still correct, i.e., regardless of the deletion of 10 days there was never a period were there were more than 7 days from say one Saturday to the next. On a side note, I've heard it said that many people of the time were outraged about losing 10 days out of their lives (presumably especially those whose birthdays fell in that 10 day period!). --jjron 15:04, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

I believe that side note is something of an urban myth. What people weren't happy about was paying a year's tax, rent, etc whilst only being paid for the days or hours that they worked.--Shantavira 17:57, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

When the British Empire converted to Gregorian (in 1752, Wednesday, September 2 O.S., was followed by Thursday, September 14 N.S.), the law was specifically framed so as to prevent that sort of abuse by requiring payments to be made based on "natural days": for example, a monthly payment that had been on the 1st of the month was to change to the 12th. However, I have no idea whether it was actually followed in practice. --Anonymous, 21:15 UTC, November 5, 2006, N.S.

It seems likely to me that the integrity of the 7-day week is intact, at least since the time of Jesus. The seven-day week was used by nearly all Mediterranean peoples and would have been maintained both by government officials and ordinary villagers during the time of the Roman Empire. Thereafter, despite the chaos of barbarian invasions, the Christain Church in Rome and Constantinople and parish churches across Europe would have maintained the seven-day week right down to modern times. Marco polo 23:56, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

I agree with that. The dates (eg. 9th February, 13th April etc) may have changed due to changes to the calendar, but the 7-day cycle of the days of the week has never to my knowledge been interrupted. Except for one specific case, whose details escape me for the moment, where a Friday was followed by another Friday. It had something to do with an adjustment to the International Date Line, not to the calendar as such. JackofOz 00:53, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

black thingy on aircraft

what's this black thing warpped about the hull?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Astor_SentinelR1.JPG

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombardier_Global_Express

The Bombardier Global Express article points to Raytheon Sentinel. Weregerbil 15:43, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

• Fairings for radar and other communications equipment, I do believe. Kinda like the disk on the AWACS radome, though that's a rotating thing. --jpgordon^∇∆∇∆ 15:52, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

The appearance of it being wrapped is an illusion, I am sure. There is probably a pod on the top and another larger one on the bottom, nothing wrapped. --Justanother 16:09, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

The Erieye (here seen mounted on a Saab aircraft, I think) by Ericsson is another example. It contains an array antenna with many elements. You can choose the angle in which the radar is looking by operate the elements in proper phase to each other. (Makes for a faster sweep than if done mechanically.) —Bromskloss 17:12, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Air Canada strike of 1969

I am trying to confirm the beginning date and end date of the Air Canada strike that occured in 1969. I am unsure what part/union/workers/locations were striking but I know that it grounded all flights in/out of Toronto Pearson International Airport. I look forward to your responses, josephine

Well if nobody answers your question, you can just ask them. Anchoress 16:13, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

This link [7] says it began at the end of April, 1969, and was a strike by mechanics and other ground service personnel. I can't find anything online that says when the strike ended. The union might be able to advise you - try IAMAW District 78 in suburban Toronto at this page [8]. --Charlene 00:57, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

sat. night live school of filmaking

from

http://www.wpxi.com/entertainment/10227262/detail.html#

"Borat" can hardly be compared to the "Saturday Night Live" school of filmmaking. This is not a feeble attempt to stretch a 3-minute skit into a 90-minute movie. It is much bigger than a one-joke movie.

what are some examples of the SNL movie genre?

• It's Pat!
• Deuce Bigalow: Male Gigolo
• The Master of Disguise

--Anchoress 17:02, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

• On the other hand, The Blues Brothers, Wayne's World, Coneheads...they're not all awful. Just most. --jpgordon^∇∆∇∆ 18:12, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

I would disagree "SNL movie genre" is a genre. What exactly defines this genre? Movies based on SNL sketches? Movies with actors who were on SNL? Putting those two criteria for a genre aside, what else defines the genre? I think, at best, you can say all these movies are in the comedy genre with a similar style of humor. —Mitaphane _talk 18:34, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Isn't it defined above? A whole movie based on a 3-minute skit? That seems pretty clear. Anchoress 18:40, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

If that's the definition, I'd say that's a bit of a strech for a genre, especially one called the "SNL movie genre". I'm pretty sure SNL hasn't been the first to take a comedy sketch routine and expand it into a feature movie. Would Office Space fall under that genre? It was based on short series of sketches called Milton that ran on SNL.—Mitaphane _talk 18:50, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Well a) if you have a problem with the definition, you should take it up with the person who wrote the article. And b), maybe that movie fits, I don't know. Anchoress 19:02, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Three-minute skit? --Wirbelwindヴィルヴェルヴィント (talk) 18:34, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

I don't see anything inherently bad about taking a sketch and stretching into a movie or TV series, it's all in the execution that makes it a success or failure. For example, The Simpsons started as a small animated sketch on The Tracey Ullman Show and The Honeymooners started as a sketch on The Jackie Gleason Show. StuRat 20:23, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Saddam's Sentence too harsh?

What do you guys think of Saddam Hussein's sentence? Was it too harsh? The Ayatollah 18:27, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Depends on whether you believe An eye for an eye is good way to execute justice. I personally, do not, but then again it wasn't any of my family or friends who were killed by Saddam and his men. —Mitaphane _talk 18:40, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

It's nowhere near an eye-for-an-eye, as perhaps millions were killed by him, and only a few will be executed as a result. If they had responded in the same way as Saddam, they would have killed him, his entire family, and everyone in his home village. That, I agree, would be too harsh. StuRat 19:52, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

No thats not an eye for an eye, dont distort this. He comitted murder, the only way you can serve equal punishment to him is to. To me, two murders are no worse than one, and a million is no worse than one, in terms of punishment, as both of them desere the maximum penalty. What you are saying, is that he wouldnt have been as evil person, if he hadnt had the logistical capability to kill millions, and that isnt true. He is still as evil, and therefore deserves exactly the same punishment as some else who committed the same crimes, on a much much smaller scale. Philc _T^E_C^I 21:24, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

The problem with that method is that, once they murder one person, they now might as well kill a million, because the punishment will be the same. StuRat 22:24, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Well the punishment is the same, and how many times has that happened. ;) Philc _T^E_C^I 23:00, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

I think the reason it keeps happening is because the world is so lenient with mass killers. Look at Pinochet, for example, who has had no punishment to date, and he will likely die of old age before anything happens to him. StuRat 23:24, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

That depends on your perspective whether one can quantify human life. Interestingly enough, I came across this sentence while looking at the Capital punishment article, "However, the Qur'an, teaches that the killing of one man is like that of killing all humankind." Whether that's true I'm not sure. If there is anyone who knows what passage this is refering to I would like to see its context in the Qur'an.

As a side note, is there a figure for those millions? In his article, under Massacre of the Kurds section, it speculates on a 1.7 million figure regarding conflict between Iran and Iraq but the Iran-Iraq War article on states a few hundred thousand died on each side. Combined with the Gulf War, the Oil for Food program, and the massacre of the Kurds, I can perhaps see a million but not millions. —Mitaphane _talk 21:03, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

There was also the brutal crackdown on the Shia after the first Gulf War, numerous purges, and many other smaller actions (like the one he was just convicted of). The numbers all add up. StuRat 22:31, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

If America really wanted to remove him from that theatre after realising he wasn't the compliant puppet they had mistakenly placed there, why didn't they just do a JFK on him BEFORE launching a war on the hundreds of thousands of innocent people they have killed there in the pursuit of global and oil-based domination?? Looking forward to next Tuesday?. I am.

They tried to do just that. However, to get political acceptance for such an action from other nations they had to prepare them for it, then Saddam got wind of it and went into hiding. Also, even if successful, one of his sadistic sons, Uday or Qusay, would likely have taken over, hardly an improvement. StuRat 19:54, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

I do fear that if they hang him, they'll create a martyr. TBH, I think the best thing they could've done when they found him would've been to cap him in the head there and then, then have the remains of his corpse 'discovered' a year or so later, conduct a phony autopsy and then declare that he killed himself. --Kurt Shaped Box 20:09, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

They couldn't have delayed the announcement of his death or capture. The Bush administration desperately needed the "good news" publicity that fall, or they might have lost the election then. What a benefit that would have been for both Iraq and the US! Cross your fingers that we can evict a lot of the bastards, fools, crooks, and stooges on tuesday. alteripse 23:22, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

How can one death atone for the thousands for which he has been responsible? Death is too lenient!--Light current 21:09, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Keeping in mind, that sentences are given to ensure that society functions correctly, not for people to get revenge. People are sent to jail, not solely as a punishment, but as a rehabilitation, and likewise he is killed not only as a punishment, but as he can never became part of a functioning society again. And anything more than death, that comes to mind, is just twisted, and puts you on the same moral level as him. Philc _T^E_C^I 21:53, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

I hate how you liberals have the idea that "justice" is so important. It doesn't matter what anybody thinks is "right" or "wrong", it matters what is best for the world. I see no reason to give anybody the death penalty, unless they are a master of escape in which case killing them would be the only way to stop them from doing bad things. Especially with Saddam, a figure of great importance, there are surely more useful things for him to be doing than dying.

On a second note, if you "feel better" that Saddam is going to be killed, I think you are sick, enjoying someone's death.

--216.164.192.171 21:44, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Some Iraqis would definately feel safer. Would that not be feeling better, does that make them sick? Philc _T^E_C^I 21:50, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Please don't twist my words. By "you" I mean somebody who was not personally traumatized by Saddam's actions. I'm talking about people who use this website. --216.164.192.171 21:59, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Keeping him in jail for life would be very expensive, as there would no doubt be attempts to help him escape, unless a large enough military force guards him constantly to prevent this. The decision is up to the Iraqi courts, they can do what they want with him. Also, if we want this to serve to discourage future genocidal rulers from acting on their instincts, then execution is really required. StuRat 22:21, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

He probably knew he would be executed if caught and convicted Its fairly painless. THat was obviously no deterrent to him. What is needed is something that will make future dictators think very hard!--Light current 22:34, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

I wasnt trying to twist your words, I simply misenterpretated them. For that, I apologize. However, you have brought to light, that there are other criteria to your statement, and probably there is even more, blurring its meaning further. Philc _T^E_C^I 22:57, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

After this, I won't comment further, because it's off-topic, but I think it was fairly clear, considering that the first thing I said was "I hate how you liberals...". And how "you" means the reader. --216.164.199.173 23:03, 5 November 2006 (UTC)<--same person, just using dialup.

I'd be careful using that reasoning; "what is best for the world." has been construed in the past to mean purging the world of Christians, Jews, Muslims, as well as a number of other ethnic and religous minorities. One could effectively acheive world peace, if you define it as the end of all violent conflict, by killing every living thing on this planet. Utilitarianism is not an end-all-be-all ethical theory. —Mitaphane _talk 23:36, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

StuRat, I love you. You hang on to my coat tails like a tail does to its dog. But you carry fleas, so I reserve the right to run rings around you. I don't care for your argument about Saddam's sons - that is a diversion. The fact is, Emperor Bush is bent on dominating the middle east and its oil reserves and has joined forces in that regard with the western-loving and oil-producing Arab states such as the UAE and Saudi-Arabia. I suspect (sic) that he is also motivated in that regard by the Republican Party Investors such as the US Arms Manufacturers and the Oil-Industry. Imagine........the greatest democracy in the world (by influence, not population (that compliment lies with India as you are no doubt aware)), supporting the oil-rich totalitarian governments of the Middle -East, whilst destroying the World Trade Centre in New York (and its innocent occupants) and at the same time entertaining the Royal House of Saud in the US President's house, and asking intelligent and literate people around the world to watch and accept that WT7 was brought down by Islamic fundamentalist terrorists as an entree to invading and occupying the "offending" country i.e.Iraq. I know - it is too demanding of a civilised person to so imagine. God help us all. But I still love you and will watch your future comments with hope for your good sense. Unsigned by User:195.93.21.101.

Sorry, but when you go to WTC conspiracy theories you lose me, I suppose bin Laden's bragging about destroying the towers was just a lie ? StuRat 00:50, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

A lie that was scripted for him by GWB? I agree. We should meet for a drink and a meal and a spirited discussion next time I am in the States. Unsigned by User:195.93.21.101.

Why would bin Laden cooperate? "Hey bin, tell the world you destroyed the WTC so I can have an excuse to kill you" "Uh ok" --froth^{T C} 04:59, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

I think that Hussein's sentence shouldn't be based on revenge (two wrongs don't make a right). It should be based on what is best for the world. Mitaphane mentioned that in the past, "what is best for the world" has been interpreted to mean killing the Christians, Jews, Muslims, etc. But that's like saying the justice system should be eliminated because in the past, justice has been interpreted to mean torturing people and putting them under brutal conditions. We don't care what people in the past thought, because now our opinions are different from our ancestors'.

Hussein's sentence should, of course, be ethical. And I don't think the death penalty is ethical, because two wrongs don't make a right; just because he killed somebody, it doesn't make it right for us to kill somebody too. (StuRat, if you think that the ruler of any country would be deterred from commiting genocide because he's afraid of death, than you're absolutely wrong.) He should be given a life sentence, with the choice of being executed. --Bowlhover 01:26, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Why do you think that leaders who commit genocide wouldn't be worried about their own deaths ? StuRat 07:16, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

I know its frowned on (a bit) in the West, but would keeping him alive but subjecting him to daily torture be likely to satisfy everyones need for justice and revenge. And would it make an example of him to others contemplating such acts> 8-|--Light current 01:40, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

That wouldn't be justice; it will be injustice, because nobody deserves to be tortured no matter what they've done. I'm sure the American public, as well as many countries and humanitarian organizations, will be outraged if any such thing happens. --Bowlhover 01:50, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Hmmm. Publically ,yes. But Western nations are not averse to using a leetle bit of torture when it suits them! Anyway its a foreign country with its own government we are talking about. THey can do what they like (AS long as Dubya says its ok) 8-(--Light current 02:12, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Yes, we'd be just heartbroken. :-) StuRat 02:15, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Well whatever they do, it will not bother me. He didnt to anything at all to me, so I have no need for revenge of any sort. But a lot of people would like some sort of revenge Im sure.--Light current 02:35, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

This is the man who tortured and murdered thousands of his own people. This is the man who made a people shredder and "allowed" those who would be put through it to beg at his feet to be put through head first; only to feed them through feet first every single time. This is the man who massacred men, women, and children by using the children's own dolls to carry the poison. How can anyone say that death by hanging is to harsh? He tortured and killed thousands, if not millions, of his own people. Also, after ordering and watching these things being carried out for decades, how could he be rehabilitated? I'm not saying that Hamurabi's code is the best form of justice, or that the War in Iraq was right, but the Iraqi people deserve closure. Screw justice for Saddam, he didn't give his victims justice; give the people he has abused for years justice. Give them closure. Give them the death of the dictator who had their wives raped and killed before their eyes before he put them through the shredder. That is justice. -- THL 04:32, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

I was with you until you said "screw justice for saddam, he didn't give his people justice." That may be the common-sense approach but it's not how we do things in western society, and it leads down a very long, very dark road --froth^{T C} 05:02, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

• The Hybrid: What is all this about "only to feed them through feet first every single time"? Show some sources! Presenting disputed and shaky evidence as fact is propaganda. Some sources say that on the balance of probability it never existed user:Amists

Alright, I can see your point. However, isn't justice by definition, after one has already been found guilty, a way to punish those found guilty and bring closure to the victims, while dealing with the guilty in the best possible way? In this case rehabilitation, which is the best course of action in the majority of cases, would be impossible seeing as he was doing these things for years. Due to this fact, he could never be a functioning member of society again. Also, society would never let him function within itself again should he be rehabilitated; the people would have just killed him in a far less humane way then hanging him. Therefore, this course of action was the best possible course for society, Saddam (whether he likes it or not), and for the victims. -- THL 05:27, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

I agree with the "let's kill him" crowd. It may not be "how we do things in western society" (I believe many states in the US have the death penalty) but the only reason I can think of for not using the death penalty for murder and a few other crimes is in case they convict the wrong person because once you kill someone you can't unkill them. So to answer the question, no it is not too harsh. It is not harsh enough. User:216.164.192.171 said, "On a second note, if you "feel better" that Saddam is going to be killed, I think you are sick, enjoying someone's death." Fair enough, but I think you are sick for not enjoying his death. I don't know what's best for the world at the moment in regards to this; it might (nay, will) provoke violence, but I still think he deserves to die. I still would never accept a job as an executioner though. --WikiSlasher 08:52, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

This is now a full blown discussion and does not belong here. I propose moving it to talk:Saddam Hussein. Any objectors?--Light current 15:46, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Interstate Highway Exits Project

Roman Soiko I want to start a massive project which objective is to enumerate every interstate highway exit in the country, in the style of communter rail networks that are already expounded upon by this site.

I can use of course, Mapquest to find the exits, but how do I go about the editing phase of this project?

My immediate reaction is, why is this needed? Dismas|^(talk) 19:07, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

I also have to wonder, with the huge holes that exist in Wikipedia, and the articles that desperately need expanding and rewriting, is this energy not better spent in other areas? However, if you want to do it, I guess you will. However...--Filll 19:35, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

See Portal:U.S. Roads. User:Zoe|(talk) 21:20, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Many of our interstate highway articles have exit lists already. See Interstate 95 in Massachusetts for an example, and Massachusetts Route 128 for a more detailed example. —Steve Summit (talk) 23:02, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

advantages/disadvantages of rechargeable batteries

86.144.154.112 20:07, 5 November 2006 (UTC)mandielou

See Rechargeable battery. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 21:09, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

If you want a comparison between single use batteries and rechargables, one only needs to look at the devices that use them. Look at all the devices that have rechargable batteries(laptops, cell phones, PDA's, etc) vs those that typically don't(remote controls, clocks, portable CD player, etc.). I think you'll see a pattern; single use batteries are often used for devices that don't consume much power so that it's worth getting new single use batteries that won't lose its charge over time (as rechargables do); and rechargable batteries are used for higher power devices that would be expensive to replace all the time. Regardless of that, as far as time/convenience (cost I'm not sure of) goes, I think rechargables would win in almost every comparison (unless someone thinks it requires less effort to drive to a store to buy new batteries compared with popping old batteries in a charger). —Mitaphane _talk 21:20, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Maori Scenery

Hi, Im doing some work on some new zealand scenery and i recall a Old legend of a Giant chief that fell in love with this Maori woman and he died through trying to eat his way through a Hillside Can someone help me with this?

You'd be referring to The Legend of Te Mata o Rongokako recounted around Havelock North, New Zealand [9] [10] Rockpocket 20:49, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

The photo in link [7] above shows the hill very well - the head is to the left. Lisiate 21:12, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

There is also a more detailed recounting of the legend here. Rockpocket 21:36, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

You asked the same question here on October 15.  --Lambiam^Talk 21:38, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Plagiarism

Two of your Wikipedia articles were plagiarised from the website planetmadtv.com. The articles that I know of are about Bryan Callen and Mo Collins. There could be others but I haven't seen them. Please remove these articles or re-word them. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Startist (talk • contribs) .

What part is even plagiarized? That site looks like it's just a news blog with mostly quotes. I can't even find the bios for the two above. Can you point to the specific page involved? Or are you just trolling? --Wirbelwindヴィルヴェルヴィント (talk) 23:26, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Here's the Bryan Callen page http://planetmadtv.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2617 and here's the Mo Collins page http://planetmadtv.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2618. Notice at the bottom of those biographies, there is credit given to the members who wrote them.

Thanks for telling us! I'll admit I can't fix it now, but somebody else should pretty soon. X [Mac Davis] (SUPERDESK|Help me improve) 04:52, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Removing crankshaft bolt

My dad is trying to remove the crankshaft pulley bolt on his Honda Accord to replace the crankshaft seal, but it's stuck on there so tight that when he turns it with a 3' length of pipe on the end of a wrench (with the transmission in Fifth and me standing on the brake), the clutch slips and the bolt doesn't loosen; penetrating oil, a propane torch, and constant hammering have done nothing to change this. Any ideas on how to get the thing off without buying an expensive crankshaft immobilizer or going to the shop? 65.87.184.11 21:56, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

His WHAT oil ? StuRat 22:07, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Er, I think you got caught by vandalism that was not part of the original question: [11] FreplySpang 22:12, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Try an impact wrench. You might be able to borrow one, if you don't already own one. StuRat 22:08, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Also, soaking the bolts in gasoline (petrol) may loosen rust, if that's the problem. StuRat 22:12, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Hey StuRat, would a mild acid (like vinegar) work? I use it to remove rust from my "Iron Chef" butcher knife. I love that show. I also am dumb.Anchoress 22:22, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Maybe, but if the vinegar makesiehe rust "puff up", it could actually make it worse, because the rust is between the nut and bolt, with no way to get it out. Gasoline has the property of being drawn into tight spaces by capillary action, which tends to pull small particles of rust along with it. Also, gasoline typically contains lubricants (lead in the old days, then MTBE, not sure what they use now) and detergents, for dealing with corrosion in car engines. StuRat 23:17, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Have you tried an ultrasonic spanner yet? That may work. Also, he could try simulating an impact wrench by hitting the spanner handle with a dirty great hammer! This will act against the moment of inertia of the system and hopefully free the nut. Also could try soaking the whole nut with WD40 if not already tried.--Light current 22:24, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Before StuRat so rudely interjected I was onside with the penetrating oil, otherwise known as gas-oil. It is by far superior to WD40 and leaves gasoline (Petrol) in the shade. But it does take a little while to actually penatrate the seized joint (open to you StuRat). But if all else fails, I am afraid the workshop with its specialised tools (and prices) is the answer.

Read the post again, he already tried penetrating oil. StuRat 02:10, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

I rememer working somewhere, wher we had to replace the dessicant balls in a steel vessel. THe 2" dia plug had, of course, rusted in with all the moisture it had been exposed to. A 36" Stilson wrench would not budge it. So the boss of the operation decided to take charge. His solution? A Twelve foot steel scaffolding pole attached to the end of the wrench and four people swinging on the end. It worked! Torque about a bit of a wrench!--Light current 01:25, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

OP, been there, done that. The problem is you cannot get enough torque on it if the clutch is slipping. You either have to pull enough crap out of the way to get an impact socket on it (radiator, AC condensor, etc.) or you have to stop the engine from turning. Ideally, you can get to the ring gear and jam it (or the clutch pressure plate) with a large screwdriver. Maybe there is a access cover on the bottom of the bell housing. Otherwise, pull the starter. I have also (carefully) jammed an engine using the cam chain. Not so good if you have a belt and dangerous in either case. Good luck, you are on the right track. --Justanother 02:01, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Before you do anything else, make sure that you're turning it in the correct direction. Might it have right-hand threads? Bunthorne 02:55, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

(of course, I meant left-hand, but my heart was in the right place) Bunthorne 05:02, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Yeah LOL. Thats a good point!--Light current 03:01, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Yes, no matter how dexterous your hands are, turning the tool the wrong way can still be a sinister problem. StuRat 06:09, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Hey, did you hear about the two wheels that were torquing? But only for a moment. Haven't used that one since, never mind when. --Justanother 06:17, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

I think that this particular bolt requires a huge amount of torque to tighten or to remove and that you need to use a power tool, at least to get it back in properly. If it is not tightened with sufficient torque, the vibration from your engine will allow it to loosen, your cranshaft pulley could be destroyed (this happened to me), and your engine could even fall off your frame! Replacing this bolt is very tricky, and I would bring it into a shop or at least rent the proper tools. Marco polo 15:47, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Looking for a type of program...

I was wondering if anyone could help me find a program. I would like it to take input from a QWERTY keyboard and then place a recording into another sound file at the time I press the key. Like a recorder that will replace my keypresses with other recordings. Ideally this program should automatically pitch-shift any recordings that are played so that all tones and semitones you can normally get would be played. I did find something like this on SourceForge, but I can't remember what it was called and it didn't seem to work anyway. Oh, by the way, the program must be free (gratis or libre, I don't care, as long as no money is involved). Thanks very much. Oh, even telling me what this type of program is called or something like that would be a great help. Thanks again. --80.229.152.246 22:14, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

"Sampler playback" (the ability to assign any sample to any key) Seems to be the name of the thing I'm looking for. I just found a program on SourceForge that should do the trick. I'll leave the question just in case it doesn't work.

Gratis and libre is a trivial distinction in this case. I'd encourage you to write it yourself, it seems like a simple enough problem. --froth^{T C} 04:51, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Cops being 80s

Does Cops count as an 80s show?

Do you mean this show? That show's first run was in 1989, but it's still being broadcast now. --Bowlhover 01:43, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

I would say yes (but barely), and it's also a 90s show and a 2000s show. --Wirbelwindヴィルヴェルヴィント (talk) 01:46, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

insurance industries

Why are the insurance industries involved in car safety devices?

So they don't have to pay medical bills from people who were in an accident. StuRat 02:06, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Famous Accounts

I am doing some research on Wikipedia culture. I would like to know if there have been any "troll" accounts operating on wikipedia in the last year and who they are and also what their themes are. Adam Nicholson 02:29, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Long_term_abuse would make a good starting point. -Elmer Clark 03:07, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, but that's mostly "vandals." I'm talking about trolling, users who initiate flame wars and use Wikipedia simply to agitate others, etc. Adam Nicholson 03:10, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Some have said the Encyclopedia Dramatica case and its fallout contained some measure of trolling. Naming individual editors may be problematic due to WP:NPA, WP:AGF, WP:CIVIL. Also go to the TrollWarning template and click "what links here". Weregerbil 12:13, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Equus (play)

what was the story behind the real crime that inspired Peter Shaffer to write this play?

Try this or this and google "Alan Strang". CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 05:53, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Bidding for sport events

In monetary terms, how much does it cost a government/country just to bid for say, the FIFA World Cup? --iamajpeg 03:17, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Do you mean the costs associated with the bid alone, or the costs associated with staging the event? According to The Independent, a British bid for 2018 "could cost tens of millions of pounds". [12] According to a feasibilty study by auditors, the 2010 Cup in South Africa will have:

• A projected direct expenditure of R12.7 billion ($1.7 billion)
• But will contribute R21.3 billion to the GDP of South Africa ($2.9 billion)

Its an expensive business, with with the potential of great rewards if you don't mess it up (*cough* Wembley Stadium *cough*) Rockpocket 09:35, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Sadaam Hussein

I know Saddam has been in the news a lot lately. While I freely admit that he was a brutal dictator, there are other sides to his persona that are left understated in conventional Western media depictions of Saddam. For instance, have you ever noticed that he's a particularly stylish dictator? Great suits, charisma, and those cool oversized aviator sunglasses? Do you agree with me that Saddam was a "pimp" back in the day? What about other dictators with a rico-suave "pimp" style? All I can think of right now is Momar Quaddafi, back in the 1980's, before he ditched his designer labels for the fundamentally boring Islamic garb he prefers now. Hizzizzle 03:21, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Evita Peron, wife of Argentine dictator Juan Peron, was renowned for her fashion sense. StuRat 03:41, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Imelda Marcos was known for her shoes... Dismas|^(talk) 04:03, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Interesting way to look at things... --Proficient 04:14, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

I hate to be a killjoy, but would the OP try to rephrase his question please? Im not sure what you are asking 8-)--Light current 04:19, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

File:Kim-il-sung Kim-jong-suk Kim-jong-il.jpg

Three-year-old Kim Jong-il with his father Kim Il-sung and mother Kim Jong-suk in 1945.

Kim Jong-il has that Dr Evilesque two-piece look going on. You can thank his father, Kim Il-sung for that. Sure, he may have been a self-obsessed tyrant, but he was not all bad. For example, he recognised the benefits in dressing his child and heir, like a dapper little sailor. You really can't overestimate the importance in instilling a sense of style on a dictator from a young age. Rockpocket 08:50, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

His mother died when he (Kim Jong-il) was seven. I didn't know that. Carcharoth 14:07, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

TV show

I have been haunted by a image from my past of a tv show. I have looked for it but i havent been able to locate the show. What I can remeber from the picture is a group of people/super-heros that are crime fighters / Military type civillian group. they ride Motorcycles and have them suped up with addons. this includes mini roceket launchers. this is all circa 1995 in the US. Any help in finding this show will be welcome. Betacommand ^{(talk • contribs • Bot)} 06:16, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Sounds like some version of the Power Rangers, to me. Specifically, it sound most like Power Rangers: Zeo, in which each ranger had a Zeo Jet Cycle. StuRat 06:35, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Was it cartoon or live action? One of the members of MASK had a motorcycle from what I recall. Dismas|^(talk) 06:41, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

It was cartoon and there was no costumes they were humans with no real "powers" Betacommand ^{(talk • contribs • Bot)} 08:03, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

It's not Biker Mice from Mars, right? =D --Wirbelwindヴィルヴェルヴィント (talk) 08:25, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Na they were human. Betacommand ^{(talk • contribs • Bot)} 09:50, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Furby Prank Call

The Jerky Boys recorded a prank call to a Wal-Mart about a satanic Furby threatening to kill them and promoting drug use. One of my friends showed this to me and said that she got it off of iTunes. She also said that iTunes incorrectly listed it as having been recorded by Weird Al Yankovic. I looked and looked for that thing, but I can't find it anywhere. What would I have to search for to find it? Cheers -- THL 06:33, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Search "jerky boys" "walmart" furby download and you should find it. --WikiSlasher 08:24, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

If you're sure it's by the Jerky Boys, maybe you could also drop the maintainer of the Not Al Page a line to tell him - it's currently listed as "Artist Unknown" on the big list of recordings commonly attributed to Al. Ironfrost 15:36, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

highest score

what is the highest score in toefl and gmat from india and the names of the persons

Election Day Results

When will the results of the mid term elections tomorrow likely to be out? Harwoof 13:26, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Depends on which country's elections you are talking about. JIP | Talk 13:41, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

United States Senate elections, 2006 Harwoof 13:43, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

The polls do not close on the west coast until 8:00 p.m. Pacific time (04:00 Wednesday UT), and it typically takes another hour or two for the final poll results to be recorded. If it comes down to the west coast (which it might), the results won't be known until at least 10:00 p.m. (22:00) PST, 1:00 a.m. (01:00) Wednesday EST, and 06:00 UT. Marco polo 15:54, 6 November 2006 (UTC)