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See also: Logged AE sanctions

Important information

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Please use this page only to:

request administrative action against editors violating a remedy (not merely a principle) or an injunction in an Arbitration Committee decision, or a contentious topic restriction imposed by an administrator,
request contentious topic restrictions against previously alerted editors who engage in misconduct in a topic area designated as a contentious topic,
request page restrictions (e.g. revert restrictions) on pages that are being disrupted in topic areas designated as contentious topics, or
appeal arbitration enforcement actions (including contentious topic restrictions) to uninvolved administrators.

For all other problems, including content disagreements or the enforcement of community-imposed sanctions, please use the other fora described in the dispute resolution process. To appeal Arbitration Committee decisions, please use the clarification and amendment noticeboard.

Only autoconfirmed users may file enforcement requests here; requests filed by IPs or accounts less than four days old or with less than 10 edits will be removed. All users are welcome to comment on requests except where doing so would violate an active restriction (such as an extended-confirmed restriction). If you make an enforcement request or comment on a request, your own conduct may be examined as well, and you may be sanctioned for it. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. (Word Count Tool) Statements must be made in separate sections. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as personal attacks, or groundless or vexatious complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions.

To make an enforcement request, click on the link above this box and supply all required information. Incomplete requests may be ignored. Requests reporting diffs older than one week may be declined as stale. To appeal a contentious topic restriction or other enforcement decision, please create a new section and use the template {{Arbitration enforcement appeal}}.

Appeals and administrator modifications of contentious topics restrictions

The Arbitration Committee procedures relating to modifications of contentious topic restrictions state the following:

All contentious topic restrictions (and logged warnings) may be appealed. Only the restricted editor may appeal an editor restriction. Any editor may appeal a page restriction.

The appeal process has three possible stages. An editor appealing a restriction may:

ask the administrator who first made the contentious topic restrictions (the "enforcing administrator") to reconsider their original decision;
request review at the arbitration enforcement noticeboard ("AE") or at the administrators' noticeboard ("AN"); and
submit a request for amendment ("ARCA"). If the editor is blocked, the appeal may be made by email.

Appeals submitted at AE or AN must be submitted using the applicable template.

A rough consensus of administrators at AE or editors at AN may specify a period of up to one year during which no appeals (other than an appeal to ARCA) may be submitted.

Changing or revoking a contentious topic restriction

An administrator may only modify or revoke a contentious topic restriction if a formal appeal is successful or if one of the following exceptions applies:

The administrator who originally imposed the contentious topic restriction (the "enforcing administrator") affirmatively consents to the change,^[a] or is no longer an administrator;^[b] or
The contentious topic restriction was imposed (or last renewed) more than a year ago and:
- the restriction was imposed by a single administrator, or
- the restriction was an indefinite block.

A formal appeal is successful only if one of the following agrees with revoking or changing the contentious topic restriction:

a clear consensus of uninvolved administrators at AE,
a clear consensus of uninvolved editors at AN,
a majority of the Arbitration Committee, acting through a motion at ARCA.

Any administrator who revokes or changes a contentious topic restriction out of process (i.e. without the above conditions being met) may, at the discretion of the Arbitration Committee, be desysopped.

Standard of review
On community review

Uninvolved administrators at the arbitration enforcement noticeboard ("AE") and uninvolved editors at the administrators' noticeboard ("AN") should revoke or modify a contentious topic restriction on appeal if:

the action was inconsistent with the contentious topics procedure or applicable policy (i.e. the action was out of process),
the action was not reasonably necessary to prevent damage or disruption when first imposed, or
the action is no longer reasonably necessary to prevent damage or disruption.

On Arbitration Committee review

Arbitrators hearing an appeal at a request for amendment ("ARCA") will generally overturn a contentious topic restriction only if:

the action was inconsistent with the contentious topics procedure or applicable policy (i.e. the action was out of process),
the action represents an unreasonable exercise of administrative enforcement discretion, or
compelling circumstances warrant the full Committee's action.

^ The administrator may indicate consent at any time before, during, or after imposition of the restriction.
^ This criterion does not apply if the original action was imposed as a result of rough consensus at the arbitration enforcement noticeboard, as there would be no single enforcing administrator.

Appeals and administrator modifications of non-contentious topics sanctions

The Arbitration Committee procedures relating to modifications and appeals state:

Appeals by sanctioned editors

Appeals may be made only by the editor under sanction and only for a currently active sanction. Requests for modification of page restrictions may be made by any editor. The process has three possible stages (see "Important notes" below). The editor may:

ask the enforcing administrator to reconsider their original decision;
request review at the arbitration enforcement noticeboard ("AE") or at the administrators’ noticeboard ("AN"); and
submit a request for amendment at the amendment requests page ("ARCA"). If the editor is blocked, the appeal may be made by email through Special:EmailUser/Arbitration Committee (or, if email access is revoked, to arbcom-enwikimedia.org).

Modifications by administrators

No administrator may modify or remove a sanction placed by another administrator without:

the explicit prior affirmative consent of the enforcing administrator; or
prior affirmative agreement for the modification at (a) AE or (b) AN or (c) ARCA (see "Important notes" below).

Administrators modifying sanctions out of process may at the discretion of the committee be desysopped.

Nothing in this section prevents an administrator from replacing an existing sanction issued by another administrator with a new sanction if fresh misconduct has taken place after the existing sanction was applied.

Administrators are free to modify sanctions placed by former administrators – that is, editors who do not have the administrator permission enabled (due to a temporary or permanent relinquishment or desysop) – without regard to the requirements of this section. If an administrator modifies a sanction placed by a former administrator, the administrator who made the modification becomes the "enforcing administrator". If a former administrator regains the tools, the provisions of this section again apply to their unmodified enforcement actions.

Important notes:

For a request to succeed, either

(i) the clear and substantial consensus of (a) uninvolved administrators at AE or (b) uninvolved editors at AN or

(ii) a passing motion of arbitrators at ARCA

is required. If consensus at AE or AN is unclear, the status quo prevails.

While asking the enforcing administrator and seeking reviews at AN or AE are not mandatory prior to seeking a decision from the committee, once the committee has reviewed a request, further substantive review at any forum is barred. The sole exception is editors under an active sanction who may still request an easing or removal of the sanction on the grounds that said sanction is no longer needed, but such requests may only be made once every six months, or whatever longer period the committee may specify.
These provisions apply only to contentious topic restrictions placed by administrators and to blocks placed by administrators to enforce arbitration case decisions. They do not apply to sanctions directly authorized by the committee, and enacted either by arbitrators or by arbitration clerks, or to special functionary blocks of whatever nature.
All actions designated as arbitration enforcement actions, including those alleged to be out of process or against existing policy, must first be appealed following arbitration enforcement procedures to establish if such enforcement is inappropriate before the action may be reversed or formally discussed at another venue.

Information for administrators processing requests

Thank you for participating in this area. AE works best if there are a variety of admins bringing their expertise to each case. There is no expectation to comment on every case, and the Arbitration Committee (ArbCom) thanks all admins for whatever time they can give.

A couple of reminders:

Before commenting, please familiarise yourself with the referenced ArbCom case. Please also read all the evidence (including diffs) presented in the AE request.
When a request widens to include editors beyond the initial request, these editors must be notified and the notifications recorded in the same way as for the initial editor against whom sanctions were requested. Where some part of the outcome is clear, a partial close may be implemented and noted as "Result concerning X".
Enforcement measures in arbitration cases should be construed liberally to protect Wikipedia and keep it running efficiently. Some of the behaviour described in an enforcement request might not be restricted by ArbCom. However, it may violate other Wikipedia policies and guidelines; you may use administrative discretion to resolve it.
More than one side in a dispute may have ArbCom conduct rulings applicable to them. Please ensure these are investigated.

Closing a thread:

Once an issue is resolved, enclose it between {{hat}} and {{hab}} tags. A bot should archive it in 7 days.
Please consider referring the case to ARCA if the outcome is a recommendation to do so or the issue regards administrator conduct.
You can use the templates {{uw-aeblock}} (for blocks) or {{AE sanction}} (for other contentious topic restrictions) to give notice of sanctions on user talk pages.
Please log sanctions in the Arbitration enforcement log.

Thanks again for helping. If you have any questions, please post on the talk page.

Arbitration enforcement archives

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CatapultTalks

CatapultTalks (talk · contribs) is hereby banned, for 3 months, from editing any and all pages regarding post-1932 politics of the United States, and closely related people, broadly construed. — Coffee // have a cup // beans // 10:27, 1 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning CatapultTalks

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: Volunteer Marek (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 08:35, 19 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

User against whom enforcement is requested: CatapultTalks (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced: Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/American politics 2#Enforcement :WP:ARBAP2:

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

Starting with most recent

Feb 19 Restoring material which has been challenged via reversion [1] (material was added Feb 17 [2])
Feb 17. Restoring material which has been challenged via reversion [3]. Note that the original text was inserted by CatapultTalks [4] with a misleading summary (WP:AVOIDVICTIM is suppose to protect BLP subjects - it's not an excuse for victimizing them as CT's edit summary implies)
Feb 15. Restoring material which has been challenged via reversion [5]. Note that this is also an attempt to restart a previous edit war [6] after failing to obtain consensus or even discuss on talk.

[7] Feb 5, 7:59 (arguably not a revert)
[8] Feb 5, 18:06 (revert)
[9] Feb 6, 6:26 (revert)
[10] Feb 7, 19:12 (note misleading edit summary)
[11] Feb 8, 16:24 (revert)

Depending on how you count it that's either three or two 1RR violations.

On Executive Order 13769 - This page is under a 1RR restriction due to discretionary sanctions of which CatapultTalks has been made aware

[12] Feb 4, 22:38 (revert)
[13] Feb 4, 23:15 (revert)
[14] Feb 5, 8:09 (revert)
[15] Feb 6, 6:13 (substantially changes the meaning of the sentence which makes it a revert)
[16] Feb 6, 20:24 (revert)

This is at least four 1RR violations and pretty close to a straight up 3RR violation

On Social policy of Donald Trump - This page is under a 1RR restriction due to discretionary sanctions of which CatapultTalks has been made aware

[17] Feb 1, 22:37 (substantially changes the meaning of the text which makes it a revert)
[18] Feb 2, 7:01 (substantially changes the meaning of the text which makes it a revert)

Then

[19] Feb 5, 7:56
[20] Feb 5, 16:44 (resumes previous edit war)
[21] Feb 6, 17:02 (revert)
[22] Feb 6, 17:42 (revert. There is another edit by CatapultTalks in between the 17:02 and 17:42 one which could also be seen as a revert)
[23] Feb 6, 20:02 (if this isn't a revert (it is) then the edit immediately following this one is)
[24] Feb 6: 22:30

So that's a few more 1RR violations and a 3RR violation.

In addition to the persistent edit warring several of these edits violate the discretionary sanction which states: " All editors must obtain consensus on the talk page of this article before reinstating any edits that have been challenged (via reversion). If in doubt, don't make the edit." Several of CatapultTalks' edits have been challenged by several users via reversion, yet he persists in restoring his preferred version without much discussion, much less bothering to get consensus.

See this previous 3RR report which was closed with "Report_should_be_made_at_WP:AE.2C_which_is_the_appropriate_forum_for_any_Discretionary_Sanctions_violations" (personally disagree, violating 3RR and 1RR is violating 3RR and 1RR, discretionary sanctions or not, but here it is) [25]

If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)

I think I really bent over backwards with this user. Here is the first notification. Here is the second notification. Here is the third and formal notification by User:Coffee. Here is the fourth notification. And here is one last ditch attempt to try and get the user to listen and actually make a pretense at observing the discretionary sanctions restrictions: Fifth notification.

Pretty much the response the whole time has been "I'm right, you're wrong, take it to the talk page" (of course CatapultTalks didn't bother taking anything to the talk page themselves)

Note that CatapultTalks' reply here sort of encapsulates the problem - he violates 1RR, 3RR and other discretionary sanctions and when you bring that up to him he tries to argue about how his edits were legit (on his own talk page, rarely on article page) and refuses to stop edit warring. I mean, discussion is good, but if you break the rules that everyone is suppose to abide by, people will get frustrated (especially after he's been notified, what, six times?) Volunteer Marek (talk) 01:29, 20 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Isn't Mr.Ernie's comment below itself sanctionable, per WP:ASPERSIONS? Volunteer Marek (talk) 01:58, 23 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

For the first three diffs in the "Starting most recent" section, the diffs are there and just those three are sanctionable. I will try to dig out the diffs for the older reverts tomorrow.Volunteer Marek (talk) 09:23, 27 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Discussion concerning CatapultTalks

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by CatapultTalks

First, I strongly object to the allegations that I don't bother taking anything to the talk page. Here are examples where I started discussions on talk pages. You would notice that in some instances I agreed based on inputs from other editors that my initial edit could be wrong and we arrived at consensus.

On Immigration policy of the Donald Trump administration: [26], [27], [28], [29]

On Social policy of the Donald Trump administration: [30], [31], [32]

On Executive Order 13769: [33], [34], [35]

Here's why VolunteerMarek's allegations about my edits are wrong:

Starting with most recent per VolunteerMarek's statement above

VolunteerMarek reverted [36] this well sourced relevant edit of mine, terming it "redundant". Redundant how, why exactly? Previously too, VolunteerMarek reverted [37] a good, non-controversial edit of mine, just because he can. No explanation why.
[38] - The earlier edit was promoting media's narrative of the deported person as "Arizona mother" and this prolong's victimization per [WP:AVOIDVICTIM]. Instead, my edit adds a key sourced detail about the conviction being a felony and that she entered the country illegally which presumably led to her deportation. Those are the facts.
[39] - This was after a discussion regarding this was open on talk page with no comments from other editors

On Social policy of the Donald Trump administration:

VolunteerMarek reverted [40] my well sourced edit adding a key detail because it "confuses everything". Really? How? Again, no explanation
[41] - source cited at the time didn't relate to the text. More sources were provided later to back the claim and I didn't challenge or revert it again
How is this [42] a revert? This is backed by an existing source. It has since not been challenged by anyone.

On Immigration policy of Donald Trump:

[43] - definitely not a revert. perfectly sourced
[44] - not a revert. removed redundant content and was never challenged

On Executive Order 13769:

[45] - this was challenged, discussed on talk page and consensus was to keep it out the article - which is exactly what I did
[46] - why is this considered a revert? I removed some unnecessary background. was never challenged
[47] - I reinstated a key detail because it was ignored during a reword by a different editor. wasn't challenged again
[48] - this was discussed in the talk page and once there were more sources countering the initial source, we made a consensus edit

To me, this looks like VolunteerMarek is reverting my sourced good faith edits just because they don't like the edits or that it wouldn't promote a certain narrative. Please note that none of these edits are vandal attempts or unsourced POVs. So there is no justification in reverting my edits without a good reason - especially given that I'm very open to discussion on talk pages.

CatapultTalks (talk) 20:38, 19 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Follow-up comment:

I request administrators commenting/acting on this to please note that this problem has compounded because of VolunteerMarek's continuous disruptive reverts of my good edits. It is almost like VolunteerMarek is setting me up for failure, by reverting without basis and then asking me to go get consensus. I implore you to relook at the kind of reverts we are talking about. Especially this [49], this [50] and this [51]. Also note that I've had fewer problems with other editors in gaining consensus because they have participated in talk page discussions - something that VolunteerMarek hasn't done. I want to reiterate that I do respect the policies, processes of Wikipedia, but it is the bad discretion displayed by VolunteerMarek in reverting my good edits that I don't respect.CatapultTalks (talk) 17:41, 20 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Mr Ernie

Admin note: Comments are closed for this editor. Sandstein 19:28, 27 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

I propose a topic ban on Volunteer Marek from bringing editors who edit with an opposing political viewpoint to this board. It is beyond disruptive, and overall an enormous waste of time. I encourage everyone to look through the archives from the past few weeks and see how many of these VM has opened to silence other editors whose viewpoints don't line up with theirs. Mr Ernie (talk) 22:43, 22 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

User:SPECIFICO any reading of this history will reveal that you are wrong. Mr Ernie (talk) 04:27, 23 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

If I understand the policy correctly, in order for me to be subjected to administrative action under the discretionary sanctions I need to be officially alerted of the discretionary sanctions, which has not yet occurred. I apologize for appearing to cast aspersions. I had intended to show the prior enforcement action requests that the filer has brought recently, and did not do so the right way. Another editor below has linked the history. Mr Ernie (talk) 15:15, 27 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

User:SPECIFICO please stop your bad faith characterizations of my actions. You are the one now casting aspersions at me. I struck a comment I realized could be taken the wrong way and then apologized. You claim to have not given it much thought, but every one of your comments in this particular AE is about me. Please stop the aspersions, but if you'd like to continue, I request you open a new section. Please cease the comments on what you wrongfully believe my motivations to be. Mr Ernie (talk) 18:53, 27 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by SPECIFICO

Admin note: Comments are closed for this editor. Sandstein 19:28, 27 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

Mr Ernie There is absolutely no evidence here to support your assertion that @Volunteer Marek:'s edits are motivated by any "political point of view" and it is unconstructive, to say the least, to present such an undocumented aspersion at AE. SPECIFICO talk 22:58, 22 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Mr. Ernie casts WP:ASPERSIONS at OP and then instead of providing evidence or even explanation of such denigration, he tells others to scour the archives for evidence? This behavior is explicitly prohibited per guidance concerning enforcement discussions on the discretionary sanctions page, and it is unacceptable. This kind of disruption places an undue burden on editors and Admins who are trying to enforce of ARBAP2, perpetuating violations on numerous articles. Disruptive behavior at AE should not be tolerated. SPECIFICO talk 14:10, 27 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I had not given it any thought, but having just read the latest words from Mr. Ernie, I believe that he should be sanctioned to prevent further disruptive conduct. After denying and defying, he doubled down by claiming a loophole "get out of jail free card" that he hadn't been templated and was therefore immune from the DS guidelines on demeanor. Then, as soon as he realized that he is actually in jeopardy, he stated that he apolgizes from the conduct he stood with only minutes before. What's wrong with this picture? SPECIFICO talk 18:15, 27 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by James J. Lambden

@Sandstein: The archives indicate Mr Ernie is correct to claim Volunteer Marek has brought a number of editors with "opposing political viewpoint[s]" to this board. To be precise: 7 (now 8) since August of last year, more than any editor in the same period under ARBAP2: 8/2/2016, 10/8/2016, 10/27/2016, 11/21/2016, 11/25/2016, 12/21/2016, 12/26/2016

WP:ASPERSIONS cautions against claims without evidence or in inappropriate forums. This appears to be neither. James J. Lambden (talk) 19:50, 25 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by (username)

Result concerning CatapultTalks

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

A troubling pattern of editing is illustrated here, including breaches of 1RR and the requirement for obtaining consensus for challenged material. I think a temporary topic ban from this domain is in order. --Laser brain (talk) 03:41, 20 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
CatapultTalks has been warned more than enough times... and their pattern of editing at this point shows that they hold the discretionary sanctions system in very little regard. As such, I think a 3-6 month topic ban would be appropriate at this time, since CatapultTalks cannot be trusted to follow the less restrictive page restriction system. — Coffee // have a cup // beans // 13:43, 20 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
- I second the AE page ban for Mr Ernie, at a minimum of 6 months duration. — Coffee // have a cup // beans // 05:45, 26 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Volunteer Marek: Because it is contested that some of the edits you reported are reverts, please amend the complaint to include the diffs of the edit that the reported edits reverted. – As to Mr Ernie, I think an AE page ban is in order for casting aspersions. Sandstein 10:00, 25 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I'm closing down the Mr Ernie subplot and logging the AE page ban. As to SPECIFICO, if you make one more comment in an AE thread in which you are not a party that is not a concise and useful submission of evidence, I will likely ban you from this page as well. This board is not a venue for dispute resolution, and I am not interested in opinions of random editors, particularly those involved in disputes in the topic area. Use AN/I or the other chaos boards for that. The only thing that matters here is evidence that helps admins address requests. Sandstein 19:35, 27 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

After studying the past history here I endorse:

A ban from this page for Mr Ernie unless directly involved in the AE request as a party.

A 3 month topic ban for CatapultTalks, who seems to me to be deliberately pushing the limits here.

Neither user's behaviour as highlighted here is sufficiently egregious to be sanctioned as a standalone item, but the history kicks it into "enough already" territory. Guy (Help!) 14:30, 27 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The Rambling Man

The Rambling Man is blocked for a month. Sandstein 21:43, 5 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

NOTE: This action is currently being reviewed at Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard#TRM. WJBscribe (talk) 12:50, 6 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

That discussion has now been archived by Euryalus in favor of the appeal below. Beyond My Ken (talk) 06:08, 7 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning The Rambling Man

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: The ed17 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 21:01, 5 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

User against whom enforcement is requested: The Rambling Man (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced: Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/The Rambling Man#The Rambling Man prohibited : "The Rambling Man (talk · contribs) is prohibited from insulting and/or belittling other editors."

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

The Rambling Man has continued insulting and belittling other editors since the last AE thread last December, where he was warned that "continuing to use unnecessarily harsh language is likely to result in being blocked."

4 March "If you're not interested in fixing this sort of thing, why not go and do something else rather than add useless comments?"
4 March "You are not productive. Your comment adds nothing at all here. Point not proven, please stop assuming bad faith in extremis, and get back to solving this project's major problems of utterly crap quality control." Also please note the edit summary: "what an unsurprising misinterpretation, packed with bad faith and clueless as to how to actually SOLVE THE PROBLEM, do us all a favour and come up with something helpful for a change"
4 March "[T]hanks, your bad faith mini-rant is noted, yet another apologist who can't tell the difference between absolute statement of fact and "soapboxing"."
4 March "We can get back to discussing it with people who are actually genuinely interested in making this a better place."
3 March "You summarily failed to answer my question, but I suppose we probably already have an inkling of the answer."
2 March "You don't have the first idea what you're talking about, but why let that get in the way of a good story and a weak threat, eh?"
24 February "... there are some users who are there simply to give their "opinion" on things, and seldom provide any kind of link or reference for their "opinions". Funnily enough, one of them is here in this thread. Until such scandalous and unencyclopedic behaviour is stopped ... The sooner you both get that idea sorted out in your heads, the better."
12 February "Another parade of article owners and credit-hungry users."
31 January Denigrating an ESL speaker. "That doesn't make any sense at all. Perhaps you should leave it to a native English speaker before making suggestions or claiming that "fell into oblivion" isn't neutral in tone."
29 January "You are a disgrace, an abhorrence to the role of an admin, let alone as an normal person." – I fully admit some culpability in this, but the reply was rather over the top.
29 January "Not at all. Your opposition is founded in ill-logic. But never mind."
25 January Straight chilling threats, regardless of admin's wrongness. "Your behaviour as an admin will be carefully scrutinised, as you well know. And as you well know, Arbcom take a very dim view of admins who are not willing to abide by ADMINACCT." + "Your refusal to acknowledge your responsibilities as an admin is evident, we'll need to keep an eye on that going forward."
4 January "No, I get it. You didn't even look at the article, I understand."
3 January "we need to be careful before paying heed to a user who simply seems to take the role of headmaster when he is abundantly ignoring the community wishes"
21 December "Now disappear while I set about fixing up the garbage that I've just found!"
16 December "Your hyperbolic criticism is indicative of one who is too emotional to contribute neutrally."

Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any

14 December AE thread closed as no action, but "The Rambling Man is warned that continuing to use unnecessarily harsh language is likely to result in being blocked"

If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)

Mentioned by name in the Arbitration Committee's Final Decision linked to above.

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

[52]

Discussion concerning The Rambling Man

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by The Rambling Man

Driveby comment by Iridescent

Given that the most recent diff of TRM being "belittling" was in reply to someone else saying "fuck you" to him, I think you can probably cut him some slack for that one. ‑ Iridescent 21:37, 5 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by (username)

Result concerning The Rambling Man

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

I note that The Rambling Man has declined to comment here, by removing the notification diff with the comment "from an admin who routinely abuses his position, this is nothing of interest to me I'm afraid. Focus on admins telling editors to "FUCK OFF" instead".

In my view, the request establishes clearly that The Rambling Man has continued the conduct from which they were prohibited, i.e., "insulting and/or belittling other editors", and even their reaction to this AE request constitutes a violation of this prohibition. Per the remedy at issue, if "The Rambling Man does engage in prohibited conduct, he may be blocked for a duration consistent with the blocking policy." According to that policy, administrators must consider "the severity of the behavior; [and] whether the user has engaged in that behavior before."

I conclude that the number of violations established in the evidence, together with the warning in the last AE request and the reaction to this request, establishes a pattern of recurring violations and amounts to a severe violation of the prohibition. Accordingly, to effectively deter The Rambling Man from continuing with this conduct, I am blocking them for a month. Sandstein 21:41, 5 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Arbitration enforcement action appeal by The Rambling Man

Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found here. According to the procedures, a "clear, substantial, and active consensus of uninvolved editors" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action.

To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see WP:UNINVOLVED).

Appealing user: The Rambling Man (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) (Appeal copied/pasted here per standard procedure. – — Coffee // have a cup // beans // 19:24, 6 March 2017 (UTC))[reply]

Sanction being appealed: 1 month block (logged)

Administrator imposing the sanction: Sandstein (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)

Notification of that administrator: Done per procedure

Statement by The Rambling Man

I'm not too worried about being immediately unblocked, it appears that this unfortunate event has cast something of a shadow of Sandstein's behaviour as an admin, along with those who enabled me to be told to "fuck off" and be called a "prick". But I am slightly perplexed that Sandstein could have taken the time to read each and every comment produced in The ed17's illustrious report, within the context of each of the discussions and to understand the background to each and every one of them. I'm also perplexed by this continual cry of "insult" or "belittling" when an admin is simply free to tell me to "fuck off" and call me a "prick", or other editors are allowed, nay enabled, to call me a Holocaust denier (don't worry TRM, it's so ridiculous we can just ignore it! etc etc). The block is punitive, not in keeping with the escalation suggested by Arbcom in the first place (remember, the first block, by departed Mike V was actually incorrect in every way, including his accusations of me being a liar), so in essence and in totality, this is a first-time offence, and taking time to go over these diffs (if the blocking admin had done so) would have revealed a richer picture. Now I don't want, and never did want, Floq to be sanctioned, admonished or whatever for telling me to fuck off or calling me a prick, but I did expect a more level playing field. Sandstein has clearly decided against that and is applying his letter of his interpretation of the law. That I wasn't even given a chance myself to respond to The ed17's initial report it somewhat staggering, but to then bring action against the admin who kindly allowed me to use my talk page again (after Sandstein had, once again, used one rule for his fellow admin, and another for me) is shocking. By responding here in this manner, I'm agreeing to abide by the bureaucracy that exists in these circumstances, but I 100% guarantee that we will, once again, see the hawks spiralling overhead, most of whom I've had precisely zero interaction with since the Arbcom case. The lynching will re-commence, but that's what Sandstein and Arbcom demands. I don't look forward to it, all I've been doing for the last few months is trying to preserve the integrity of the main page, and that's left me being called an anti-Semite and a prick. Thanks. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:16, 6 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Some analyses

Let's take one of these, shall we, e.g.:

"Not at all. Your opposition is founded in ill-logic. But never mind."

Right, let's be honest folks, does that sound like insulting or belittling language? It was a statement of fact. The opposition was illogical ("Your opposition is founded in ill-logic"). I shrugged it off ("But never mind"). The OP had actually made some unfounded accusations e.g. "Its moot to constantly bring up the time" and then some personal attacks e.g. "This is why no one cartes (sic) what you say, and why you have no ground to stand on with your position". I suppose that meant "no one cares what I say", a bit like "fuck you" and why "people think you're a prick". ✗ Fail. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:04, 6 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

"we need to be careful before paying heed to a user who simply seems to take the role of headmaster when he is abundantly ignoring the community wishes"

This is a sweet one. Brad came in, guns blazing, to the Sutter Brown ITNC discussion, after it had been posted. Now, ITNC ran a few very decent polls over how they select RDs, i.e. whether they need "super notability" (a cause for one of the hawks circling to focus on getting me banned) or whether even trees, animals etc could be listed. We observe community consensus, and the death of that dog simply fitted consensus. However, Brad came in saying he would take it to ANI (in my world, the equivalent of saying "it's my ball, and I'm leaving") to get it resolved in his favour. He was shot down by many, including admins. Anyway, the above comment came about when Granny (orca) was considered for ITN, and a number of editors, including admins, supported it. And some were sarcastic (humorously so) about the Sutter debacle. My full text, To be fair, when you have established editors and former Arbcom members like Newyorkbrad making threats against such postings, like "taking it to ANI" and "bringing Wikipedia into disrepute" (my paraphrasing), we have a serious problem communicating our guidelines to IPs. Brad's interjection on the Sutter article is most unhelpful, and indicates that he's way off understanding what the community around here is expecting. Yet because of his "lofty" past, we run a serious risk of people thinking "he knows best" which he clearly does not, as he has demonstrated a few times lately. We don't need this kind of purposely disruptive !voting, nor do we need someone with such experience to summarily ignore the community consensus established and documented. My advice going forward is to ignore Brad's posts until such a time that he can demonstrate that his thoughts are up to date with community expectations which, right now, are miles apart. shows a comprehensive and skilled approach to why Brad was wrong, and why his "headmasterly approach" should not only be unwelcome, but discouraged. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:26, 6 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
_{Further statements in excess of the word limit can be found at User talk:The Rambling Man#Mid-session interval.}

Statement by Sandstein

I recommend that this block appeal is declined. I refer to my statement in the thread above for the reasons for which I imposed the block.

In general, the discombobulated appeal does not address The Rambling Man's behavior for which they were blocked, and whether or not that behavior violated the restrictions imposed on The Rambling Man by the Arbitration Committee. It therefore does not inspire confidence that The Rambling Man will comply with these restrictions if they are unblocked. But that is precisely what we expect blocked editors to address when requesting to be unblocked, see WP:GAB. For this reason alone, the appeal seems to me to be without merit.

As to the issues addressed in the appeal, insofar as I can make them out:

Regarding accusations against Floquenbeam (talk · contribs) and unspecified others of insulting The Rambling Man, and conducting "lynchings", etc: These problems, whether or not they exist, are not the reason for the block and are therefore immaterial to the appeal. They cannot be resolved by unblocking The Rambling Man. Appealing editors are expected to address their own behavior, not that of others, see WP:NOTTHEM. Indeed, these accusations being unsubstantiated, they violate the principles described at WP:ASPERSIONS.
"That I wasn't even given a chance myself to respond to": The Rambling Man did have an opportunity to respond to the AE request, and chose not to do so. As to my interpretation of the remedy, they are able to respond to it now, in this appeal.
Me allegedly not having taken the time to read "each and every comment": I'm quite capable of reading diffs. But what matters is not what I read, but what The Rambling Man wrote. The content of the comments as excerpted in the AE request are quite enough to establish multiple and serious violations of the arbitration sanction by themselves. Now, if that impression had been mistaken, or if the quotes had been incorrect, or somehow excusable, etc., The Rambling Man could have responded and said so - or told us what exactly the "richer picture" is that they supposedly reveal. That they chose not to do so is their right, but it confirmed my impression that the request was substantially accurate. Wikipedia does not have the fifth amendment.
"The block is punitive": This assertion has no basis. If The Rambling Man were to give us credible assurances that they understand what the problem with their conduct is and how they will ensure it does not occur again, I'd unblock them right here and now. However, that is by far not what we see in this appeal.
"not in keeping with the escalation ... this is a first-time offence": This disregards the reasons for which the arbitration sanction was imposed in the first place (i.e., for relatively serious misconduct of this kind), the previous AE case which resulted in another warning, and the number and extent of violations listed in the request, none of which The Rambling Man has actually contested. In view of this, as explained in the request, I think that a one-month block is proportionate and very likely the minimum to have any preventative or deterrent effect.

If the reviewing administrators wish me to comment further on some particular issue, please ask me to do so. Sandstein 20:26, 6 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Involved administrators

In my view, Ritchie333 (talk · contribs) should not be reviewing this case as an uninvolved administrator. They are apparently a relatively frequent content collaborator with The Rambling Man (see interactions) and have been making content edits on behalf of and by request of The Rambling Man during the present block (e.g., [53], [54]). I think that this conduct speaks to bias in favor of The Rambling Man on the part of Ritchie333, apart from concerns about proxy editing on behalf of blocked editors. Sandstein 15:05, 7 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Block length

@El C: I disagree with shortening the block length. I have explained in my closing statement in the thread above why I think that a month is appropriate. Because blocks are preventative, not punitive, they should in principle be lifted only when they are no longer needed, rather than after a set time. As noted above, this is not yet established. On the contrary, the odd statements that as you point out are now being made by The Rambling Man on their talk page are, if anything, an indication that unblocking them now (or soon) would not be beneficial to everybody else. There is also not the required clear consensus of uninvolved administrators that would be needed to shorten the block over my objections. Instead, the reviewing administrators are roughly equally divided about whether or not to shorten the block. If you shorten the block nonetheless, you risk being sanctioned for undoing an AE action out of process. Sandstein 14:41, 8 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by involved editor The ed17

I'm copying my initial filing above to make sure people see what exactly we're talking about. If these aren't "insulting" or "belittling" comments, then I have no idea what is. Secondarily, The Rambling Man was given a chance to reply to the AE filing. He instead removed the notification while stating "this is nothing of interest to me I'm afraid." It was clear that he had no intention to participate. Begin copy/paste:

The Rambling Man has continued insulting and belittling other editors since the last AE thread last December, where he was warned that "continuing to use unnecessarily harsh language is likely to result in being blocked."

4 March "If you're not interested in fixing this sort of thing, why not go and do something else rather than add useless comments?"
4 March "You are not productive. Your comment adds nothing at all here. Point not proven, please stop assuming bad faith in extremis, and get back to solving this project's major problems of utterly crap quality control." Also please note the edit summary: "what an unsurprising misinterpretation, packed with bad faith and clueless as to how to actually SOLVE THE PROBLEM, do us all a favour and come up with something helpful for a change"
4 March "[T]hanks, your bad faith mini-rant is noted, yet another apologist who can't tell the difference between absolute statement of fact and "soapboxing"."
4 March "We can get back to discussing it with people who are actually genuinely interested in making this a better place."
3 March "You summarily failed to answer my question, but I suppose we probably already have an inkling of the answer."
2 March "You don't have the first idea what you're talking about, but why let that get in the way of a good story and a weak threat, eh?"
24 February "... there are some users who are there simply to give their "opinion" on things, and seldom provide any kind of link or reference for their "opinions". Funnily enough, one of them is here in this thread. Until such scandalous and unencyclopedic behaviour is stopped ... The sooner you both get that idea sorted out in your heads, the better."
12 February "Another parade of article owners and credit-hungry users."
31 January Denigrating an ESL speaker. "That doesn't make any sense at all. Perhaps you should leave it to a native English speaker before making suggestions or claiming that "fell into oblivion" isn't neutral in tone."
29 January "You are a disgrace, an abhorrence to the role of an admin, let alone as an normal person." – I fully admit some culpability in this, but the reply was rather over the top.
29 January "Not at all. Your opposition is founded in ill-logic. But never mind."
25 January Straight chilling threats, regardless of admin's wrongness. "Your behaviour as an admin will be carefully scrutinised, as you well know. And as you well know, Arbcom take a very dim view of admins who are not willing to abide by ADMINACCT." + "Your refusal to acknowledge your responsibilities as an admin is evident, we'll need to keep an eye on that going forward."
4 January "No, I get it. You didn't even look at the article, I understand."
3 January "we need to be careful before paying heed to a user who simply seems to take the role of headmaster when he is abundantly ignoring the community wishes"
21 December "Now disappear while I set about fixing up the garbage that I've just found!"
16 December "Your hyperbolic criticism is indicative of one who is too emotional to contribute neutrally." Ed ^{[talk] [majestic titan]} 19:39, 6 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@331dot: "[P]eople need some tougher skin around here." I'm very disappointed to see these words come from you. That kind of attitude is why people retire from Wikipedia. Please, explain exactly how any of the diffs from, say, 4 March aren't insulting or belittling to other users. Ed ^{[talk] [majestic titan]} 03:38, 7 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@331dot: That's fair, we do seem to have differing interpretations. :-) But I do wonder if it's coming down to you looking for straight personal attacks, whereas I'm looking for insults and belittling—which in my eyes is a different beast. For example, the quote you give ("If you're not interested in fixing this sort of thing, why not go and do something else rather than add useless comments?") is not a personal attack, but it certainly belittles and bullies another editor. Ed ^{[talk] [majestic titan]} 17:43, 7 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Nergaal: "What is a typical action a regular user would have to do in order to get a one month ban? That's a non sequitur. TRM is not your "regular editor"; he's one that's had an entire arbitration case devoted to his behavior. Not many can say that. Ed ^{[talk] [majestic titan]} 03:38, 7 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Govindaharihari

I am not actually involved - I was very tempted to warn User:Floquenbeam on his talkpage for this comment that attacked and insulted User:The Rambling Man - Fuck you , with the edit summary of - Fuck you asshole , coming from a very experienced editor it was combative and created additional tension. TRM is overly sensitive but other users should be embarrassed my their input.Govindaharihari (talk) 20:03, 6 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by 331dot

In my view people need some tougher skin around here. I don't think that most of the cited comments are "belittling and insulting", and the few that arguably might have been did not warrant a month block-if one at all- when one considers context and the situation at the time. If one is going to block a user for most of those comments, we all likely would earn a month off at some point. Given the high profile areas in which TRM edits, he draws more conflict than the average editor, often with people who give as good as they get. 331dot (talk) 20:42, 6 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@The ed17: I think it unlikely that I would change your mind regarding any of the cited statements, as we seem to have differing mindsets on this matter(which is completely fine and I don't mean that in a bad manner) so I don't think taking the time to analyze the cited statements blow by blow would help anyone(and TRM is already explaining them himself). I would say that generally most of them do not seem to be direct personal attacks(such as "If you're not interested in fixing this sort of thing, why not go and do something else rather than add useless comments?"). As I indicated, even if some of the statements arguably warranted a block, I feel that a month was excessive. 331dot (talk) 10:26, 7 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@The ed17: Perhaps. I would respectfully submit that the statement we are discussing is still somewhat mild in terms of belittling in my opinion. Certainly others can and do disagree, which I respect and I do not wish to take time and bytes attempting to change their minds. I am wondering if TRM is able to criticize another user's contribution without running afoul of the sanctions? Any criticism could be seen as belittling depending on the recipient. 331dot (talk) 18:19, 7 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Softlavender: Respectfully, stating that a comment is useless or unproductive is not a comment on a contributor, but on the comment itself. So TRM is not able to state that something could be unproductive without violating the sanctions? 331dot (talk) 20:19, 7 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Softlavender: I guess we will just have to disagree. Given that, I can only hope that those who attack TRM's comments are treated in the same manner. Thank you for the discussion 331dot (talk) 20:49, 7 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Mifter (Semi-Involved Sysop)

I've had a long history of minor interactions with TRM however since coming back from a longer term Wikibreak and resuming helping out at DYK I've had occasion to interact with him much more frequently. I was at first surprised and disappointed to read the Arbitration case in which he was involved as my prior interactions had always been civil and cordial. However after working more closely with him, I soon saw what likely got him blocked and before ArbCom in the first place. However, I can say this with strong conviction, TRM cares deeply about this encyclopedia, its readers, and ensuring that we put the best product out the door, especially where the Main Page is concerned. He has caught numerous errors/mistakes that have slipped by other volunteers at DYK and a number that I missed myself. In that, his contributions have been exceptionally positive and without him I am certain DYK (and a number of our other main page projects) would have inadvertently put incorrect or misleading information on the Main Page multiple times over just the past month or so I've been working closer with him. Personally, I tend not to promote a set of hooks from the DYK preps to the queues for the Main Page until he has made his signature edits clearing things up (In many ways I find myself wishing he still had Sysop rights to help take care of the errors he finds in a more expedient fashion).

However, I have observed that TRM has a very short tolerance for those who make repeated mistakes or do not live up to his own standards. This comes through in sarcasm (some of it genuinely funny and good for injecting humor and levity, some not), comments that could be seen by some as belittling, and what also could sometimes be seen as the baiting of other editors. Speaking honestly, I knew it was only a matter of time until an action such as this would be taken. However, I believe it is crucial to note that other editors have not been faultless in their interactions with TRM. Without discussing specifics it is clear to me that some users have been thin-skinned when dealing with TRM and are "giving as good as they (perceive to) get" from him with comments that are attacking, uncivil, etc. I agree with the above commenters that this needs to stop on both sides though I do note that many of the Diffs are cherry picked to support a specific side out of thousands of edits. I do not know why TRM has become so bitter in some aspects and in informal conversations with other editors there is a general puzzlement about why he is acting in this way. However, I do not believe a one-month block is needed in this case as in my estimation it is merely punitive. I believe TRM wants the best for this encyclopedia and is pushing for all those he deals with to improve. I cannot always support his methods and there are times I have to ignore some of his comments and walk away for a minute (that is life in general though), but I can support his goals and appreciate the valuable work he provides to this encyclopedia. I believe it is beyond dispute he does need to better interact with other editors (I personally found this insightful) however we as a project also need to figure out how to address our own shortcomings, be thicker skinned, and forgive and move on in some circumstances rather than simply issuing blocks. We are a collaborative project, and it takes all types to get this right. TRM has a personality that clearly does not mesh well with everyone and he as well as the rest of us need to improve in that regard. However, I don't believe this block advances that important goal in a meaningful enough way to justify its length. Mifter (talk) 23:49, 6 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

After reading through much of this I now understand why people say so much time/energy is consumed with Arbcom and the like (if anyone wants to work with me to restart the WP:DRAMAOUT let me know.) In general, I find myself agreeing quite considerably with WJBscribe's comments and concerns about the potential for AE to be gamed through context, strategy, and differences in interpretation (especially when a sanction is grey like "no belittling", topic bans are easy and generally clear, this is pure interpretation and discretion.) I am also concerned that the current layout of this sanction makes it easy for other editors to bait TRM and as soon as he steps one foot out of line hit him with a block (though that inequity needs to be taken up with Arbcom.) Working with the Main Page, or anywhere that is not relatively obscure, generally involves occasional disagreements/criticism, and people take criticism differently. As I said above, TRM is hardly the easiest individual to work with however his contributions, motivation, and goals are good. Disagreements, even those that are perfectly civil, often contains criticism within them, and if people are consistently searching for reasons to find a violation of the sanction, short of vanishing I do not see how TRM can edit in a collaborative environment (where disagreements are inevitable) without someone being able to interpret/piece together an argument that he is violating this sanction. Our job is to assume the best of intentions and build an encyclopedia, not put an editor under a microscope and prod them until they break. I support shortening the block to 72 hours/time served and from reading the comments believe it may be prudent for an uninvolved admin/team of admins to begin determining how to close this appeal. Best, Mifter (talk) 02:19, 8 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Softlavender, thank you for the context. I've been away for a while so I would not have been able to see the shift in behavior that someone who was here during that time would have. Mifter (talk) 02:19, 8 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Banedon

I'm not involved in this dispute, only so much as I filed the original arbitration request. I think the block is justified and I would have linked the diffs in the evidence section of the arbitration request if it were under consideration today. The diffs are clearly symptomatic of the problems with TRM's editing and his analyses are not convincing, e.g.

"Not at all. Your opposition is founded in ill-logic. But never mind." - Whether or not the opposition is illogical or not is not as important as the fact that this is offensive (or easily interpreted as such even if the intention was not to offend). Illogical in this context clearly carries negative connotations, and explicitly saying this is asking for trouble. It's like if a store sends a sales representative to see you and you respond with "wow I can't believe that sales representatives can be this ugly. But never mind". You could argue that the first part is true, and you could argue that the second part is "I shrugged it off", but it doesn't change the fact that it is offensive, and will almost certainly be interpreted as such.

"we need to be careful before paying heed to a user who simply seems to take the role of headmaster when he is abundantly ignoring the community wishes" - This is similar. Referring to anyone in a dispute by third person is asking for trouble (it gives the impression that the person is so irrelevant and inconsequential that addressing him / her is unnecessary). Even neglecting that, projecting a negative image ("take the role of headmaster") onto someone is not civil.

The Floquenbeam diff - Floquenbeam clearly did not act in a justifiable manner here, he has been warned, and he acknowledged it was a mistake. However two wrongs do not make a right, and there's nothing in WP:CIVIL that says you can retaliate if the other side breaks WP:CIVIL first. In fact we even have essays saying not to do this (WP:FWF). A violation of WP:CIVIL is still a violation of WP:CIVIL, even if the other side did it first. One might wonder then, shouldn't Floquenbeam also be blocked? The difference is that Floquenbeam does not have a long history of uncivil behaviour. When it comes to civility I think most people are willing to look past the first (few) incidents. If Floquenbeam continues to act like this for several years, through multiple ANI cases, an Arbcom case, and then an AE block, then a block would be justified. But we are not there yet.

The only real question remaining is whether the block of one month is justified. I'll say that my first impression was that this is harsh. After all, my experience on other boards is that the first block is typically 24 hours, followed by one week. One month is significantly longer than this. However, TRM has had more than ample warning. Even neglecting the multiple ANI cases in the past, there was an arbitration case (if Arbcom cases don't qualify as "you should be really careful about what you are doing" warnings, I don't know what does), followed by an AE block in December (which was overturned, but still resulted in a formal warning). If the carrot does not work, one must wield the stick.

It's arguable that even after these warnings, a 1-month block is still too harsh. But the best set of eyes are those that are uninvolved, and if an uninvolved administrator - far as I can tell, Sandstein is one - feels one month is fair, then so be it. One month is not obnoxiously long, and the Arbcom remedy specifically mentioned this duration. Plus, unless one is to question Sandstein's integrity, we must assume that Sandstein acted in a manner (s)he thinks was fair.

Only other thing I'll say is that I'm very disappointed by this entire affair. In the evidence section of the Arbcom case, I wrote that TRM reforming is undoubtedly the best case scenario, but that I wasn't convinced it was possible. TRM then started to prove me wrong. His behaviour improved even while the case was in progress, and around November I remember thinking that if this keeps up, I'll happily nominate him for adminship myself. Then there was the TRM vs. Mike V incident, followed by the first of a series of troubling diffs (as linked by Ed). It feels like the entire case has been futile, all the drama and "I will address [my approach and tone and correspondance style]" has been for naught, and we're right back where we started. Sigh ... TRM, if you care about the encyclopedia and project, we are on your side. Please don't act like we're all vindictive hawks out to "get you". Banedon (talk) 02:05, 7 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Softlavender: - true. I've amended what I wrote. Floquenbeam still acknowledged it was a mistake, which is a hopeful sign and something TRM has not done. Banedon (talk) 14:52, 7 March 2017 (UTC) @Dweller: a comment on point 2, "Many of the diffs were pretty much ancient". I view this negatively, not positively - it implies that the first time they were written, the editor they were directed at simply looked past them. However the behavior kept up until (s)he decided it was a problem. Which is the worse kind of behaviour to you, a one-off obviously-inappropriate moment of incivility, or a long-term pattern of rudeness none of which are individually actionable? Banedon (talk) 23:34, 8 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by WJBscribe

Sandstein's comment above makes it clear that he accepted Ed17's presentation of the matter on its face and did not look into the diffs provided beyond the quoted parts. That was regrettable and I think goes a long way towards explaining why the sanction imposed was manifestly disproportionate. I worry that such a practice allows WP:AE to be gamed by clever presentation of evidence, if it is not looked into carefully as a matter of routine. Context is important. In particular, I think care needs to be taken to discourage others from baiting sanctioned editors into breaching their sanctions. Where - as here - that has occurred, I think it is incumbent on an administrator actioning an WP:AE report to consider whether this mitigates the conduct of the sanctioned user and/or whether the conduct of others involved should be looked into. Had that happened in this case, I think it would have been obvious that a much shorter block should have been imposed (if any). I support reducing the length of the block to the longer of 72 hours or time served. WJBscribe (talk) 12:31, 7 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Commenting on the suggested topic ban, I agree with Dweller that main page content - the most visible part of Wikipeida - will suffer. We would be cutting off our nose to spite our faces. We will also create a huge dilemma as to how to deal with errors pointed out by TRM, and inevitable accusations that those who address them are helping to evade the ban notwithstanding the obvious benefit to the project of correcting such errors. Finally, surely it lies outside the scope of WP:AE to enact a ban that was unanimously rejected by ArbCom in the relevant case, see: Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/The Rambling Man/Proposed decision#The Rambling Man topic banned? WJBscribe (talk) 18:14, 8 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by uninvolved Softlavender

I'm not sure if uninvolved folks get to make sectioned-off statements here, but Govinda (an inexperienced editor) did, so I am taking the liberty. I wanted to add my own two cents and also respond to two statements by users above, and also make a proposal.

Banedon wrote: "Floquenbeam clearly did not act in a justifiable manner here, he has been warned, and he apologized for it later." Technically, he did not apologize per se; what he has said (on his talk page) is "[I] am occasionally imperfect", and "[I] momentarily los[t] my cool".

Mifter wrote: "[M]y prior interactions [with TRM] had always been civil and cordial. However after working more closely with him [since coming back from a longer term Wikibreak], I soon saw what likely got him blocked and before ArbCom in the first place."

My observation: The change in TRM since the ArbCom case has been as follows: He now has a very large chip on his shoulder about not being an admin. It's clear he is very resentful of this fact, and now very resentful of admins. He brings this up continually, in terms such as referring to himself as "not in the club". He snipes at and whines about admins. The end of his appeal here reverts to this behavior.

Although it's frustrating to be helping out at the main page without having the tools (a part of TRM's frustration I can understand), not having the tools is the condition of 99.99% of all Wikipedia editors. I'm going to recommend that TRM be strongly advised to (1) Stop bringing up the ArbCom case. (2) Stop referring to the fact that he is not an admin. (3) Stop sniping at admins, collectively or individually, directly or indirectly. I'd also recommend that if helping out at the main page is actually too frustrating for him without having the tools, that he stop helping out at the main page. Or that, after whatever period of exemplary behavior, he file for restoration of the bit (if that is allowed by the ArbCom ruling; I really don't remember). Softlavender (talk) 14:39, 7 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

My comment on the sanction itself: I am neutral about all three editors involved (TRM, Sandstein, Floq). That said, I feel that the block is too long and should be reduced to a week. I also feel the AE was closed too quickly and too unilaterally. I also feel that full protecting TRM's talk page within 15 minutes of the block, however justified by the ArbCom ruling, was inappropriate (especially considering the one-month length of the block) and appeared to be a move to preempt criticism. I recommend that Sandstein recuse himself from any further and future sanctions concerning TRM. Softlavender (talk) 16:27, 7 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@331dot: Yes, of course it is possible to critique another user's contribution without running afoul of any sanctions. Anyone who is successfully able to write article content is also able to discuss content without any comment whatsoever on the editor who wrote the content, because good article writing itself requires complete objectivity and neutrality and careful objective wording. Here are some obvious relevant policies and guidelines for discussing content:

Focus on article content during discussions, not on editor conduct; comment on content, not the contributor. [55] Comment on content, not on the contributor: Keep the discussions focused upon the topic ..., rather than on the personalities of the editors contributing. [56] No personal attacks: A personal attack is saying something negative about another person. [57].

It's not rocket science. If someone's behavior or objections or opinions frustrate you, make that irrelevant and stick to content. If someone insults you, completely ignore it. It's that simple. If need be, just act like a robot. If someone resorts to insults or ad hominems when foiled, that generally means their own arguments lack substance and they have no real counter to what someone else has put forth. Softlavender (talk) 19:40, 7 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@331dot: Regarding "Respectfully, stating that a comment is useless or unproductive is not a comment on a contributor, but on the comment itself." If you can't see that that ("If you're not interested in fixing this sort of thing, why not go and do something else rather than add useless comments?") is a comment on the user rather than on content, then I can't help you. A comment on content would be "Here is my proposal: ____" or even "I disagree" or "I disagree; what do others think?", or "OK, I have Googled and found the source for the direct quote and added it". And so on. For instance, one good rule of thumb is never to use the word "you" or "your", and never to mention others at all. Softlavender (talk) 20:33, 7 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Floquenbeam (deliberate non-ping), irrespective of the accusation of baiting, except for the ping here you just responded to I do not see that Coffee has ever pinged you since this whole thing went down (I just checked all of his contribs). He made a post on your talk page, and pinged you just now here. I get that you are irritated at the accusation, but the only ping was here. I'm not saying this one ping was appropriate, but it's the only one he has made in reference to this case. (Also, maybe Coffee doesn't know about Template:Noping?) Softlavender (talk) 14:15, 8 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Floquenbeam

I don't much care if Coffee repeats this "blatant baiting" meme everywhere; no one whose opinion I respect respects his opinion. But I would like someone to convince him to stop pinging me every time he feels the need to slander me again. I am not following this circus, it has nothing to do with me, and I do not need or want pings from him. Alternately I guess I can turn off notifications until he gets bored. So if Coffee refuses to stop, and a legitimate editor needs to contact me, please come to my talk page instead of pinging; I won't receive pings for a while. --Floquenbeam (talk) 12:45, 8 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comment moved here from Result section by The Wordsmith^{Talk to me} 15:17, 8 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by semi-involved Dweller

[Semi-involved only because of my long-term excellent on-wiki working relationship with TRM) This is a user we bash again and again, hitting him with sticks we refuse to hit others with. This block was bad because:

The blocking admin clearly did not look in any depth whatsoever at the diffs
Many of the diffs were pretty much ancient
Ticking off an editor for incivility because they were provoked by the gross incivility of an admin is just injustice
The block escalation here was crazy
The block escalation was based on a first block that was itself such a terribly bad block that it brought about the departure of the blocking admin

TRM does priceless work maintaining our quality. Can we please unblock him and let him get back to work. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 15:24, 8 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comment To those suggesting TRM is topic banned from Main page content. TRM is one of perishingly few editors who bother to quality check the stuff some editors put forward for DYK/OTD etc on Main page. Topic ban him and watch our Main page fill up with incorrect assertions, assertions not referenced in our articles and articles with poor sourcing. Perhaps the quality of our Main page doesn't matter to you, but it is an embarrassment to the project when we post junk there. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 17:02, 8 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by uninvolved D.Creish

@Sandstein: you say consensus is necessary for this block to be reversed. Is consensus an important principle? Your quick close of the AE request suggests otherwise.

I reviewed a discussion you had with Thucydides411 after he was blocked at AE on questionable grounds: the DS rule he violated was so confusing it was misunderstood by half the editors and most admins

Your arguments in support of preserving his block were:

Fixed/clear rules aren't important, or even desirable
The more leeway an admin has to act the better
Leeway is "mitigated somewhat by admins generally discussing enforcement actions with each other at AE"

In your discussion of The Rambling Man sanctions at ARCA, your arguments instead were:

Whether Bishonen followed fixed/clear rules in removing talk page protection is the only relevant question
Leeway in admin actions is undesirable
Consensus and discussion of enforcement actions is unnecessary (the latter evidenced by your reluctance to discuss the enforcement without strict preconditions)

I can't reconcile these instances and arguments with any consistent view of policy and the role of admins. Can you elaborate? D.Creish (talk) 18:55, 8 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by (involved editor)

Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by The Rambling Man

See discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard#TRM. WJBscribe (talk) 19:38, 6 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

"You are a disgrace, an abhorrence to the role of an admin, let alone as an normal person", a statement similar to that one got me blocked for a bit. I think the appeal should be denied at this point. Civility is something that Wikipedia needs to work on and a constant abuse of civility should not be tolerated. Many of the people complaining about the block are using the timeline as an excuse, but AE has no timeline. While I think there should be some sort of minimum discussion period, there isn't. And TRM showed that he had no intention of participating in the discussion. Sandstein can oftentimes be a stickler for rules, but in a certain sense, with AE we need to stick to the rules. (I am not commenting on the talk page issue, since that is not the focus of this appeal.) I would be OK with a two week block though. We need to reinforce that civility is not something that we just put down on paper. I would also admonish Floq for his uncivil behavior as well. (In any event, I don't see a real appeal from TRM.) Sir Joseph ^(talk) 19:47, 6 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
That comment you quote was said in response to "I will see you banned if you can't learn to interact like a normal human being... your behavior helps poison the environment in which we all work" - even Ed17 admits culpability for that comment in his section above. Are we really going to allow people to bait TRM in this way and then punish him if he gives as good as he gets? WJBscribe (talk) 19:54, 6 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
It was also six weeks ago. ‑ Iridescent 19:59, 6 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I was not basing my statement on that one statement. I was just reminiscing about my history, for that one sentence. (and the history that it was six weeks ago, might not mean much if the whole point is that TRM is still being uncivil.)Sir Joseph ^(talk) 20:23, 6 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Yes - That Fuck comment from User:Floquenbeam was embarrassing also, attacking in its own way. Govindaharihari (talk) 19:53, 6 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps I am revealing a bit too much about my life outside Wikipedia, but have we ever considered something akin to "suspended sentences"? I do believe civility should be taken seriously, but something here doesn't quite feel right. I have seen admins talk about "last chances" and the like many times, but I think it is useful both procedurally and substantively to be able to say, for instance "6 month block, suspended," and then if there's another violation, said sanction kicks in. Perhaps this has already been dispensed with, or tried -- but I think it has a bit more teeth than "this is the last straw." Just a thought. Dumuzid (talk) 20:03, 6 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Dumuzid, it's been done occasionally in the past, particularly as part of unblock conditions ("if you upload a copyright violation again you'll be banned outright"), but experience has shown that it rarely works in civility cases. Because "civility" is such a nebulous and relative concept, it's trivially easy to engineer an argument with any given editor, and then say "well, I found this comment offensive" and persuade a friendly admin on IRC to pull the trigger; such cases almost inevitably end up in a big shouting match at ANI or a messy Arb case. ‑ Iridescent 20:37, 6 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I've been on the receiving end of TRM's acidic comments many, many times, to the point I am convinced he should change his username to the much more accurate "The Rambling Old Man". But I don't think silencing him and policing the language in general is an optimal solution. What is a typical action a regular user would have to do in order to get a one month ban? I think topic bans are fair, but what is the point of general bans for such long periods of time? Nergaal (talk) 00:47, 7 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
- @The ed17: I am not arguing that TRM should get a typical punishment, but what I am asking is to put whatever punishment is deemed worthwhile in the perspective of a regular user. I am fine with whatever penalty a group of users decide to impose, but I think in a case like this, allowing a single user to decide on the punishment is an undesirable outcome. Nergaal (talk) 10:26, 7 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
TRM has been heading down the path toward a lengthy block for some time now, although this specific block probably should not have exceeded a week. Either way, I'm disturbed by Sandstein's response to the concerns that have been expressed. It doesn't seem right for one admin to make such a significant decision unilaterally before discussion can take place. I seriously hope Sandstein will refrain from making such blocks in the future. Lepricavark (talk) 03:30, 7 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I do agree that some type of block was reasonable given the trends and prior warnings, but the one month far too long for as far little discussion as the opened AE allowed. TRM's behavior and prior Arbcom case was on civility which is nearly always a subjective call, compared to, say, topic bans even with their broad allowances. While Sandstein's quick action and closure appear within AE policies, it goes against common sense when we are not talking about fully disruptive actions that require immediate attention (particularly given the evidence spanned over 2 months). I don't believe that the closed AE case would have ended up without a block, but very much likely not a full one month block, so reducing to a week seems reasonable. --MASEM (t) 16:13, 8 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The month-long block is quite reasonable, under the ongoing circumstances as explained by blocking admin Sandstein a few hours ago. He also notes that shortening his block is subject to sanctions. As an admin has subsequently stated an intent to shorten the block to one week, we seem to be heading into uncharted waters. Regardless of the length of his block, TRM's total inability to express any kind of contrition or recognition that his ongoing incivility will no longer be tolerated by the community here must be regarded as crucial. He has just now blanked his Talk page, but a review of his comments in just the past few days there is of interest, as Sandstein notes. I agree with George William Herbert as to a general solution... a topic ban for TRM from the Main Page sections. Jus da fax 16:54, 8 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I would be OK with the block being reduced and would be OK with a main page topic ban for a while. To answer Dweller that the main page will suffer, is it not possible that the reason why other editors don't hang out there so much is because of TRM's hostility? Sir Joseph ^(talk) 17:44, 8 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Result of the appeal by The Rambling Man

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

As it stands, I consider the block was good, and remains necessary because TRM hasn't demonstrated that they understand what they were blocked for, and have not stated that they will desist (per WP:GAB). That is what is expected for an unblock, and Sandstein has said that an unblock will occur if they are convinced on a credible basis that TRM understands what they were blocked for and states they won't do it anymore. So the ball is still firmly in TRM's court at this point. If TRM shifts their approach, I am open to reconsidering. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 09:23, 7 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I first noticed this conflict when TRM complained about Floquenbeam calling him "prick" and saying "fuck you" to him. (Note: unlike "fuck off," which is merely uncivil, I consider "fuck you" as akin to "fuck yourself," a clear breach of NPA). I, therefore, issued a warning on his talk page. And that was that. I think in this case, a warning was also warranted. At most, if we sway to the harsher side, a short block. A one month block seems excessive. I looked at the evidence above and at the AE case, but I see nothing that goes beyond impatience and maybe some mild incivility. I think closing AE cases quickly, though it may be part of convention sometimes, does incur a more dramatic impetus when this is done in cases involving established users. And the proof is that, arguably, there's already been more discussion generated than had the AE been allowed to run its course more organically. In summary: I support lifting the block and supplanting it with a warning, or a short block, depending on consensus. *** Addendum: As I commented recently, I apply the some one-and-only warning for NPA violations (unless they're especially egregious) to admins and editors alike, without prejudice. El_C 09:34, 7 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Heated tidings from TRM's talk page: after I cautioned him about illustrating colorful examples (in quotes), TRM, refusing to give up the stick and becoming tendentious (despite advise from Ritchie333 to the contrary), ended up spiraling himself into talk page blanking. I note all that only for the record. Things have not been easy for him over there, that much is clear. All that having been said... as to the matter at hand: although there is some opposition I think that, overall, we have consensus here to reduce the block from a month to a week. ~~So, unless there are objections, I'll be reducing it thusly (including time served) soon.~~ Let me know.< El_C 13:25, 8 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Fine, I'll wait. But I think Sandstein is wrong about consensus. And, I think we can permit some leeway to established users when they are blocked so harshly. El_C 14:54, 8 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Block was OK, but too long, especially given that some of the comments were themselves in response to attacks. Previous one had been 72h - a week would have been reasonable. Black Kite (talk) 10:38, 7 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Block was overkill, a trout slap and "Stop this right now or there WILL be a block" would have done. I can see the point of view of having a 24 - 48 hour block to get everyone to cool down and do something else, but no more, and I think for fairness Floquenbeam should have also been blocked (that does not mean I want to block Floq - not at all - just that if you're going to block editors, do it fairly). A month is like cracking a sledgehammer with a nut. So drop the block to time served. Ritchie333 ^(talk) ^(cont) 13:40, 7 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Ritchie333: Are you suggesting ~~the previous blocks~~ (I don't wish to imply that TRM has received Arb remedy blocks) the Arb case, and this warning from December aren't sufficient for an experienced editor? Get real. --Laser brain (talk) 14:29, 7 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, because it led to a drama-fest and the retirement of Mike V. I want to see fairness, if somebody belittles you or uses unpleasant language, do not respond in kind. Ignore it, take the dog for a walk, anything .... but if admins take actions that are perceived as unfair, they get roasted on ANI for it. Ritchie333 ^(talk) ^(cont) 15:06, 7 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Sandstein: Yes, I try and get on with "difficult" editors and work with them for the good of the project, and I think improving the quality of MS Herald of Free Enterprise, a tragic ferry accident that claimed 193 lives and I found incredibly harrowing while watching the television coverage live, in time for its 30th anniversary on the main page, is more important than moaning about fellow editors. Find something to cuddle. Ritchie333 ^(talk) ^(cont) 15:11, 7 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I find it regrettable that for the initial block, it wasn't called out that some of the submitted evidence diffs don't meet the criteria of the remedy. In The ed17's complaint, at the very least diffs 5, 7, 11, 12 and 15 are reaching quite a bit. The context for 10 clearly should mitigate how it is being weighed in the sanction decision. Further, most of these are isolated incidents going back weeks and months. That being said, it is clear that during the most recent period, from March 2nd onwards, TRM's frustrations are mounting, and as an user under sanctions, he does not benefit from the same level of leeway afforded other long term contributors. While baiting is an issue, the purpose of the remedy, I trust, is exactly to stop TRM's annoyance at others get the best of him. I would therefore decline the appeal but support shortening the block length to a more proportionate level, one which serves the core purpose to stop the spiral that started at the beginning of this month. I believe Black Kite's proposed week strikes the right balance. MLauba ^(Talk) 14:15, 7 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
- As a necessary complement, though, I'd like to draw attention to The Rambling Man's talk page before getting cleared. I'd like the closing statement to reflect that while the duration will most likely be shortened, the merits of the block hasn't been in question. In my opinion, the mindset depicted in TRM's defense of his statements is leading down the all too familiar road of entrenchment rather than reform. It would be far better if this appeal could simply be declined on the merits, rather than leading to amended sanctions. MLauba ^(Talk) 13:19, 8 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
In my view this block should stand. This case is a poster child for why some editors become known as "unblockable" and why Wikipedia is so bad at dealing with prolonged and serious behavior problems when the editor isn't a blatant troll. TRM has gotten ample, long-term feedback from the community that his behavior isn't acceptable. He still doesn't accept that its problematic, doesn't accept his role in conflicts, and doesn't recognize why it's bitten him. I don't believe it's helpful for him or for the project to take the stance that he should get a final final final warning and be put on double probation. I don't see anything changing. --Laser brain (talk) 14:46, 7 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
(I commented on the block at AN, but I do not think that makes me involved.) Having ruminated on it for a day, my opinion remains similar to what I wrote at AN. The block was handled hastily and is disproportionate, considering the mitigating circumstances of many of the diffs that were provided (see MLauba's comment slightly above) and that this should really be considered the first AE block, considering the only previous one was quickly overturned. Personally, I would have felt that even a 72 hour block might be stretching it considering the recent diffs were in response to some pretty blatant personal attacks. However, I suppose MLauba makes a good point that user's under sanctions should expect to be dealt with more harshly, whether that is fair or not. I support lessening the block to anywhere from 72 hrs to one week at the maximum. Jenks24 (talk) 16:05, 7 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
A block is necessary here. We have a clear pattern of insulting, degrading or belittling conduct by someone who has already been sanctioned by Arbcom for it. This isn't a "first-time offence", as claimed in the appeal, but rather the exact opposite. We have already had the final "do that again and you will be blocked" warning back in December and it seems to have done nothing, so I don't see any point in doing it again this time. We don't have any indication in this appeal of anything that will stop the problematic behaviour from continuing. Sure, some of these comments took place in discussions where other people behaved inappropriately as well, but that's not much of an excuse. The only real leeway here is the block length. While it doesn't have to be a month, and that is the high limit of what is permissible, I would suggest it does have to be at least a week and arguably longer. Hut 8.5 21:27, 7 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
So, TRM seems to be claiming to have been baited. While I think it's despicable to bait a sanctioned or topic banned user, and would happily have imposed blocks or sanctions (even just under regular administrator discretion) against anyone attempting to do so, it still doesn't make it alright for the user in question to rise to the bait and attack someone. TRM was clearly engaging in exactly the kind of behavior that led to the sanctions again and again. If it had only happened one time, or two times, or what have you, I would absolutely oppose imposing the maximum block in the first instance. But this isn't a few times, it's still a clear pattern of unchanged behavior. A certain minimum standard of decorum is expected for participation on this project, and from the evidence presented, TRM has repeatedly breached that standard even after a clear warning that sanctions would result from that. Given that, I can't see fit to overturn the sanction imposed for it. TRM is welcome to call attention to errors and problems, but he's not welcome to be uncivil when he does so. It's entirely possible to say "This is wrong" without being nasty about it, and TRM will need to learn to do that. Seraphimblade ^{Talk to me} 21:40, 7 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I don't know that a month was the usual block progression, but at least some of the complaint items are clear enough to support someone having acted. TRM doing good does not excuse ignoring and repudiating multiple admin and Arbcom feedback to stop the behavior. If he can't adapt on the pages that he's repeatedly causing problems on, Arbcom topic banned another editor from Mainpage in the TRM case; perhaps that would be appropriate here as well. Less stressful articles and removal from the locus of disputes might ameliorate the problem. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 01:03, 8 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The block may have been hasty, but it was warranted. I've formally admonished Floquenbeam for his wholly innappropriate actions to bait The Rambling Man, but even such brazen manipulative actions from a long-term administrator do not excuse TRM to breach his restriction. If TRM had handled this properly, and notified another administrator of the baiting, perhaps we wouldn't be discussing TRM here at all. Sadly, that's not the case. Instead, TRM fell into his previous pattern of needing to get the last word in... even if that word would do nothing but increase the incivility of the given discussion. That is the same type of behavior that ArbCom specifically sanctioned TRM for, and as such the block is warranted. The length, however, is not. At most we should be looking at a 1 week block (considering one of the previous blocks on the account was invalid), and it appears that the rough consensus forming here is to reduce the block to exactly that length. Therefore, I would decline this appeal, endorse the enforcement action made by Sandstein, and contest that the block be reduced to 72 hours – 1 week (per standard progression, and to match the severity of the editor's actions). — Coffee // have a cup // beans // 04:03, 8 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
- @Softlavender: You are correct. No contact has been made with that administrator, with the exception of the linked admonishment. He was notified of his name being used here, by myself and other administrators, as per standard notification procedure (which Floquenbeam is well aware of). Any claim to the contrary should be taken as a red herring, and should be disregarded without evidence. — Coffee // have a cup // beans // 15:59, 8 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
It seems that there is near-unanimous consensus that the block itself is valid and ought to be upheld. I agree with this. However, it appears that consensus (both numbers and strength of argument) also indicates that one month is too long. I support reducing it to one week, as do most of the other uninvolved admins here. I also see significant support for 72 hours to one week from the involved and uninvolved editors above, plus those members of the pitchfork brigade who commented on ANI. Unless something shifts drastically, I intend to close this tonight or tomorrow with a commutation to one week including time served. The Wordsmith^{Talk to me} 15:42, 8 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I was told that I "risk being sanctioned for undoing an AE action out of process," when I said the exact same thing earlier today. El_C 23:39, 8 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Joe1w

User has been blocked indefinitely as a sock per Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Petey Parrot. Bishonen | talk 22:31, 6 March 2017 (UTC).[reply]

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning Joe1w

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: EvergreenFir (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 20:20, 6 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

User against whom enforcement is requested: Joe1w (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced: Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/American_politics_2#Discretionary_sanctions_.281932_cutoff.29 : American Politics 2

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

06:23, 6 March 2017 FDR's bleeding hemorrhoids
18:29, 6 March 2017 Claims George W. Bush has hemorrhoids
20:07, 6 March 2017 Suggests Barack Obama might have HIV
20:08, 6 March 2017 Suggests Barack Obama has nighttime body odor
20:36, 6 March 2017 Restored GW Bush edit

Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any

04:57, 13 February 2017 Blocked 72 hours for BLP violations by Hoary

If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)

Alerted about discretionary sanctions in the area of conflict in the last twelve months, see the system log linked to above.
Gave an alert about discretionary sanctions in the area of conflict in the last twelve months, on 13 February 2017

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

User repeatedly adds BLP violations to politicians' pages. Appears to repeatedly add bowel-related and other gross health details about politicians.

Another note: this user likes to put non-English edit summaries for some reason.

User was blocked by Bbb23 indefinitely as a sockpuppet of Petey Parrot

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

[58]

Discussion concerning Joe1w

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by Joe1w

Statement by (username)

Result concerning Joe1w

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

That's weird, and icky. These edits seem to violate the requirement that WP:BLPs "must be written conservatively and with regard for the subject's privacy ... it is not Wikipedia's job to be sensationalist, or to be the primary vehicle for the spread of titillating claims about people's lives". Joe1w seems to have an odd focus on these sorts of edits (e.g. Stalin, Jefferson). Barring a very convincing explanation by Joe1w, I think we are looking at a BLP topic ban for some time. Sandstein 20:43, 6 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Icky indeed. But the user has been blocked indefinitely as a sock, so there's nothing more to do here. Bishonen | talk 22:29, 6 March 2017 (UTC).[reply]

Volunteer Marek

No violation. --NeilN ^{talk to me} 02:30, 8 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning Volunteer Marek

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: JFG (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 01:14, 8 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

User against whom enforcement is requested: Volunteer Marek (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced

WP:ARBAPDS

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it: A1. 10:49, 6 March 2017 JFG adds sourced and relevant new content, with comment: Denial by Clapper; A2. 04:26, 7 March 2017 Darouet edits the lead section with comment: Paraphrase excessively long first paragraph quote; A3. 17:34, 7 March 2017 VM reverts Darouet along with some prior changes to the same paragraph; A4. 17:35, 7 March 2017 VM reverts JFG = DS violation (1RR)

Even though they are separated by only a minute, reverts A3 and A4 cannot be considered a single revert, because they address totally different parts of the article, with the two reverted edits absolutely unrelated to each other.

A couple days ago, I notified VM of another DS violation on his talk page:

B1. 20:26, 3 March 2017 new text added, resulting from a recently-closed RfC, by closer S Marshall

B2. 01:40, 4 March 2017 edit by Casprings, modifying RfC text based on an inconclusive discussion from another article

B3. 05:44, 4 March 2017 revert by JFG, inviting further local discussion

B4. 07:33, 4 March 2017 counter-revert by VM = DS violation (restoring a challenged edit without discussion)

I didn't want to make a fuss about it as I assumed he simply didn't pay attention. However he turned the accusation against me and alluded to collusion or socking by other editors that I never heard of; this is a pattern of behaviour which is not conducive to civil and peaceful editing.

Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any

Block log shows a suspension on 28 March 2016 for personal attacks or harassment + a solid list of older offenses. VM was the target of several AE cases in 2016, where many commenters pointed out his recurring battleground behaviour; however no technical grounds for sanctions were found.

If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)

VM has participated in numerous AE cases concerning the ARPAPDS system, been the target of several cases and launched a few against others. He was alerted about DS four times, with the latest notice being posted on 13 December 2016.

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

@NorthBySouthBaranof: Wouldn't your interpretation be open to gaming the system? An editor who wishes to undo several recent changes to an article, possibly by several editors and in distinct sections, could simply group all such reverts into a single edit and avoid the 1RR restriction? — JFG ^talk 02:00, 8 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Done [59]

Discussion concerning Volunteer Marek

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by Volunteer Marek

Statement by NorthBySouthBaranof

I don't think the filing user's statement is correct, and this is not a violation. As the policy states, A series of consecutive saved revert edits by one user with no intervening edits by another user counts as one revert. The point of consecutive edits counting as a single revert is that the changes in those two consecutive edits *could* have been made as a single edit, and that to penalize someone for choosing to split their desired changes into separate consecutive edits for whatever reason (editing screen size, choice to use the edit section function, desire to save changes and avoid losing data, etc.) would be arbitrary. So long as no other editor made changes in that sequence, there is no second revert here. NorthBySouthBaranof (talk) 01:30, 8 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Darouet

I don't think this is a violation - these edits were consecutive - and while the article has been contentious, I don't think Marek has behaved egregiously, or worse than others. I'll note that if this is a violation, my own edit yesterday - a single edit that undid multiple actions of others - was also a violation. JFG imho you should withdraw this request. -Darouet (talk) 02:09, 8 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by (username)

Result concerning Volunteer Marek

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

No violation. All of Volunteer Marek's edits today count as one revert, plain and simple. --NeilN ^{talk to me} 02:27, 8 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

[1] The administrator may indicate consent at any time before, during, or after imposition of the restriction.

[2] This criterion does not apply if the original action was imposed as a result of rough consensus at the arbitration enforcement noticeboard, as there would be no single enforcing administrator.

[a]

[b]

@@ Line 473: / Line 473: @@
 **{{re|Softlavender}} You are correct. No contact has been made with that administrator, with the exception of the linked admonishment. He was notified of his name being used here, by myself and other administrators, as per standard notification procedure (which Floquenbeam is well aware of). Any claim to the contrary should be taken as a [[red herring]], and should be disregarded without evidence. <small style="color:#999;white-space:nowrap;text-shadow:lightgrey 0.3em 0.3em 0.15em;">&mdash; [[User:Coffee|<big style="color:#ffa439">Coffee</big>]] // [[user talk:Coffee|<font color="#009900">have a cup</font>]] // [[Special:Contributions/Coffee|<font color="#4682b4">beans</font>]] // </small> 15:59, 8 March 2017 (UTC)
 *It seems that there is near-unanimous consensus that the block itself is valid and ought to be upheld. I agree with this. However, it appears that consensus (both numbers and strength of argument) also indicates that one month is too long. I support reducing it to one week, as do most of the other uninvolved admins here. I also see significant support for 72 hours to one week from the involved and uninvolved editors above, plus those members of the pitchfork brigade who commented on ANI. Unless something shifts drastically, I intend to close this tonight or tomorrow with a commutation to one week including time served. <span style="font-family:Courier New;font-size:3">[[User:The Wordsmith|'''The Wordsmith''']]</span><sup>[[User talk:The Wordsmith|Talk to me]]</sup> 15:42, 8 March 2017 (UTC)
+:*I was told that I "risk being sanctioned for undoing an AE action out of process," when I said the exact same thing earlier today. [[User:El_C|El_C]] 23:39, 8 March 2017 (UTC)
 ==Joe1w==

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