User talk:Montanabw

WikiStress level

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Make articles, not wikidrama

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This user replies where s/he likes, and is inconsistent in that respect.

User page Talk page Good and Featured articles Barnstars The DYK Corral Toolbox Advice About Magic unicorns

Sandbox invite

Anyone may play in my sandboxes, in the archive list to the right, IF you promise to behave. This means:

• No kicking sand
• No hitting other people over the head with toys
• No pooping, even if you are a cat and neatly cover it up!
• It's my sandbox, so I can throw you out if you misbehave!  :-)

Typical talk page discussion thread

"[The] readers will not be privy to the massive undercurrents of dross that underpins WP. They require well written, well sourced, encyclopaedic material that can inform, enlighten and satisfy their interest."

—User:Leaky caldron to User:ThatPeskyCommoner

"We live a time when criticism, especially here on Wikipedia, is considered to be a personal attack, which is at the root of this nonsense. Yet without criticism we can't improve."

—The user formerly known as Malleus Fatuorum

"Montana, you know I respect you greatly--you write FAs that have fewer adjectives than that outburst."

—User:Drmies

"Every edit, especially bold ones, is disruptive. Disruptive just means changing the status quo and because Wikipedia is in a constant state of evolution, it is in a constant state of disruption ..."

—User: Liz

Before you post on my talk page (humor)

Come here and I'll point the spout at YOU!

Don't call names, you frothy pottle-deep joithead!

You have been noticed using opprobrious epithets. It's payback time from the Shakespeare Insult Generator! To activate the Insultspout and receive fresh insults, click here. Note that all insults generated by the Spout are guaranteed literary and cultured, unlike the nasty things you said, you puking boil-brained hugger-mugger.

Happy Montanabw's Day!

User:Montanabw has been identified as an Awesome Wikipedian, and therefore, I've officially declared today as Montanabw's day! For being such a beautiful person and great Wikipedian, enjoy being the Star of the day, dear Montanabw! Peace, Rlevse 01:39, 13 January 2010 (UTC) A record of your Day will always be kept here.

For a userbox you can add to your userbox page, see User:Rlevse/Today/Happy Me Day! and my own userpage for a sample of how to use it. — Rlevse • Talk • 01:39, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

Awww, gee! That was really super nice! Thank you! Montanabw^(talk) 04:47, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

'tis the season

Louisa Venable Kyle wrote a children's book on The Witch of Pungo --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:50, 31 October 2013 (UTC)

Precious translates to the PumpkinSky Prize, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:03, 27 March 2014 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Beholder (horse)

The article Beholder (horse) you nominated as a good article has been placed on hold . The article is close to meeting the good article criteria, but there are some minor changes or clarifications needing to be addressed. If these are fixed within 7 days, the article will pass; otherwise it may fail. See Talk:Beholder (horse) for things which need to be addressed. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of SchroCat -- SchroCat (talk) 14:40, 6 October 2015 (UTC)

FAC of Schmerber v. California

Hi Montanabw, I hope all is well these days! I have nominated an article I wrote, Schmerber v. California, for FA status. I understand that you are an attorney and one of the top content creators at Wikipedia -- would you be willing to take a look at the nomination for Schmerber? Here is a link to the nomination. Thanks in advance for your help! Best, -- Notecardforfree (talk) 17:32, 6 October 2015 (UTC)

Reference errors on 6 October

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What's the english name of this stuff ?

Bridle, in french we call this a "licol ethologique"

Hello montana. I've a question for a categorization in WM Commons : what's the english name of this ? it's just under the category "bridle"; but it's not just a "bridle", I think ? Thank you ;) --Tsaag Valren (talk) 16:47, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

ADD : We call this a "licol américain", too. --Tsaag Valren (talk) 16:49, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

It's just a cheap rope Halter. It has a lead rope tied around it in the form of a mecate (rein), so someone is probably trying to use it like a hackamore, but it's not. Montanabw^(talk) 17:55, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

i.e. it's miscatagorized; it isn't a bridle at all. bridles have bits. Montanabw^(talk) 17:56, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

Wow, juste a cheap rope halter ! Funny, because in France, this stuff was presented (2000's) as a new tool from the Americas, created by "western horsemanship" for horse welfare ! And a lot, a lot of... stupid people, imagine it's a good tool for "tether" (attacher ?) a horse, but it's juste very dangerous !

A last question : how did you call the difference between this rope halter with a lead rope and this one without ? We need a special category in commons for what we call a "licol éthologique", because there's an article about. Thanks again ! --Tsaag Valren (talk) 20:07, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

Oh! The irony! Nylon rope halters are a) cheap (at least, if not name-branded by some guru) and b) totally unbreakable so if a horse is tied with one (and an equally strong lead rope) then goes completely batshit, they can't escape -- may break their neck first... but at the time they were developed, mustangs were cheap too. It's a rather dark history, really. You may find this article interesting. Montanabw^(talk) 12:24, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

The first halter (on the palomino) is a pretty standard US model, the lead rope is attached to the halter without metal hardware, which makes it stronger and more unbreakable (as you know, the snap is always a weak point). The second is not an American design, it looks like it is made of jute and would break easily if it didn't rot first. (and looks very uncomfortable). Montanabw^(talk) 12:24, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

Young Lusitano horse with an "american halter", in France.

I just don't get the fascination with rope halters; yeah, they enhance communication, because they cut into the horse's head!White Arabian mare (Neigh) 15:48, 9 October 2015 (UTC)WWhite Arabian mare

They. were. cheap. And the old cowboys could make new ones themselves when the old ones (old ones used normal rope). Montanabw^(talk) 15:51, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

Okay ! So you don't have a special name for what we call an "american halter" (licol américain) in France ? Irony too ! (... must be like eat french fries not french at all ? :p) --Tsaag Valren (talk) 23:05, 13 October 2015 (UTC)

@Tsaag Valren: - Need photo of an "American" Halter... we call everything a "halter" - defined by the material it's made of - leather halter, nylon halter, rope halter... Montanabw^(talk) 23:15, 13 October 2015 (UTC)

I just uploaded it, with a young Lusitano stallion I longeing/longeed ? last month with this stuff very new for me :

 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tsaag Valren (talk • contribs) 23:27, 13 October 2015 (UTC) 

• Ick! Don't label that thing "American" - "Cowboy" maybe, but many cowboys don't use them either! Let me make one suggestion: Don't longe horses in these! My reasons: 1) Any halter with the longe line attached at the jaw provides no side leverage - if the horse turns his tail to you and bolts, you cannot turn their head around and they can just run off and rip the line out of your hands! (Trust me, I had the rope burn to prove that I learned that the hard way!) 2) Some horses find those big knots to be very irritating as the halter rubs loosely on their head and it makes them irritable and sometimes upset. 3) the halter isn't even designed (or maybe adjusted) properly - nothing under the throatlatch, it could easily slide off over the ears! 4) It is adjusted too loose; the noseband is on the cartilage of the nose and could cause damage if too much pressure was put on at the wrong angle. If one must longe a horse in one of these, it should be adjusted fairly snug so the throatlatch keeps it on, the noseband doesn't move around too much and so it doesn't fall off! Montanabw^(talk) 23:40, 13 October 2015 (UTC)

okay, I don't know this stuff at all, it's not a part of my habits. There's actually a "fashion" movement about working horses with this for more "natural horsemanship". But usually we longed with "caveçon".--Tsaag Valren (talk) 23:49, 13 October 2015 (UTC)

Yes, longeing caveson? In English, caveson or cavesson is a noseband in [{English riding]]. I agree the Longeing cavesson (or lungeing) is superior. Montanabw^(talk) 02:02, 14 October 2015 (UTC)

Re: ZooMontana

But doesn't the article say it's "in Billings, Montana." Tom Danson (talk) 15:43, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

Closest post office, out west, a lot of places in the country have a town address... doesn't mean inside city limits. Montanabw^(talk) 15:46, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

(TPS) Google Maps shows the zoo as being inside the city limits, as does this map. Maybe you can find an official source locally? -- Diannaa (talk) 15:23, 11 October 2015 (UTC)

If they've annexed it, I'm OK with the change back (used to not be, but the city is growing. Montanabw^(talk) 15:26, 11 October 2015 (UTC)

It kinda sticks out like a peninsula on the map; the surrounding land is not in the city limits. Perhaps it was annexed for tax reasons or for streamlining of utilities services. -- Diannaa (talk) 19:21, 11 October 2015 (UTC)

WikiConference USA 2015

Good question! All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 15:07, 10 October 2015 (UTC).

LOL!  ;-) Montanabw^(talk) 15:18, 10 October 2015 (UTC)

All the Pretty Horses ...

Just saw this on Twitter: [1]. -- Softlavender (talk) 09:19, 11 October 2015 (UTC)

The one whose markings spelled 'horse' was my favorite one! White Arabian mare (Neigh) 14:15, 11 October 2015 (UTC)White Arabian mare

And, sad to say, that one was photoshopped! (And the "silver buckskin" might have been too! - it looks like a gray to me!) I think the rest were legit. Montanabw^(talk) 14:48, 11 October 2015 (UTC)

Ugh, thought it looked photoshopped. I wonder if there are any that are really marked that way. White Arabian mare (Neigh) 19:34, 11 October 2015 (UTC)White Arabian mare

Wikipedia citation tool for Google Books

A must-have tool. --Rosiestep (talk) 12:10, 11 October 2015 (UTC)

Wikiconference DC

You actually here in DC right now? Surprised I've not run into you yet.  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽^ʌⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ^ʌ≼  20:05, 11 October 2015 (UTC)

Saw you on the other side of the room first day, I made a comment from the other side of the room second day... Montanabw^(talk) 00:23, 12 October 2015 (UTC)

I think I remember someone mentioning horses. >;-) I'm pretty jazzed about what can be done over the longer term with Wikidata for breed-related details. I wasn't "getting" WD until the sessions at this conf.  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽^ʌⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ^ʌ≼  14:11, 12 October 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for helping with Black Allan

	Some cute Icelandic horses
	Thanks for fixing the pedigree template on Black Allan, I was afraid that if I removed the borders it wouldn't appear at all! And thanks for fixing the references as well. By the way, I created Morafic; you'll probably want to check it out. White Arabian mare (Neigh) 15:39, 12 October 2015 (UTC)

Nice to meet you

It was nice to meet you at wikiconference USA. If you want to move into the area of folk music, let me know. --Guerillero | Parlez Moi 05:25, 13 October 2015 (UTC)

@Guerillero: I'm always good for 3O, GA/FAC reviews and will frequently need a DYK qpq, so feel free to ping me if you need a hand. (FWIW, I have some music background, and have done a wee bit of editing on a few music articles). Montanabw^(talk) 20:04, 13 October 2015 (UTC)

Robert Cowell: notable trainer?

Hey, Montana. Can you take a look at this: Robert Cowell? Does this satisfy the specific notability guideline for horse people? Because it surely does not satisfy the general notability guidelines per WP:GNG based on the two linked references. Does the equine project normally accept links to sports stats sites as "significant" coverage? Anyway, my interest in this is limited, but it popped up on my radar when another editor doing page patrol asked me if I thought my article was notable, to which my reaction was "huh?" Until two days ago, the page was a redirect I created to a 1948 Olympic athlete better known as "Bob Cowell". I am curious to hear your opinion on point in light of the recent addition of a specific notability guideline for horses and horse people to WP:NSPORTS. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 02:01, 14 October 2015 (UTC)

I saw it, I suggest you cross-post at WikiProjct horse racing so that the UK/Ire folks can look and comment. The criterion is "multiple Grade 1 or Group 1 race wins," and they can probably assess that in an instant. The article definitely needs more content. I'll copy this over there. Montanabw^(talk) 14:14, 14 October 2015 (UTC)

Thanks, MBW. I'm kind of curious to see where this goes. I'll watch the WikiProject Horse racing talk page to see what happens. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 14:18, 14 October 2015 (UTC)

RfA-related

Hiya. Your thoughts are welcome at WT:RFA#Two proposed RfCs on the viewdeleted userright. Hope you enjoyed the wikiconference, I enjoyed the video of the keynote. (P.S. This isn't canvassing, since you're one of the people in the target demographic ... you'll see what I mean.) - Dank (push to talk) 17:45, 14 October 2015 (UTC)

This definitely seems like canvassing to me, targetting only those who're likely to benefit from your proposal. Eric Corbett 18:51, 14 October 2015 (UTC)

Heh, I'm clearly in the demographic. I would benefit from the proposal... but, technically, so might a lot of other people. Montanabw^(talk) 20:05, 14 October 2015 (UTC)

... None of whom have been canvassed. Eric Corbett 21:06, 14 October 2015 (UTC)

I get what you're saying, Eric, but it would simply be wrong to propose 5 people as potential subjects in an experiment and not tell them about it. I worded this as neutrally as I could, and people at WT:RFA have been informed, so if they want to discount what these people say for any reason, they can. - Dank (push to talk) 21:26, 14 October 2015 (UTC)

• • • Not my circus. I do favor unbundling userrights and page mover in particular. I could use it in my regular editing. Like today.  :-P Montanabw^(talk) 21:09, 14 October 2015 (UTC)

White line disease

We seem to have no article for white line disease--when I searched I got hoof wall separation disease and a bunch of other unrelated articles. Do we need one? If so, I'll create and write it (I googled and found several reliable sources; it seemed to be covered pretty broadly). I'm interested in it because my horse had it last year. White Arabian mare (Neigh) 21:04, 14 October 2015 (UTC)

Check out Equine lameness and horse hoof to see if it's mentioned there and if there is enough info to do a spinoff. I favor it if we don't have something, somewhere. But triple-quadruple-check that we don't have something... white line disease should pop up in a WP search, I agree. Montanabw^(talk) 21:11, 14 October 2015 (UTC)

I searched for it multiple times, along with "seedy toe", the slangy term for it. I'll try to get some references and do it tomorrow. I know I got a lot of high-quality hits when I searched for it on Google (The Horse and Equus articles, plus others that are also reliable). ADD: No mention of it at equine lameness. When mine had it he wasn't even lame...? White Arabian mare (Neigh) 21:51, 14 October 2015 (UTC)White Arabian mare

Disambiguation link notification for October 15

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United States Pony Clubs

You say that organizations cannot have pages. We are fine with this. Please remove the United States Pony Club page. It is inaccurate and against our copyright. We only attempted to update outdated information. We have no "COI" in this matter. We are a non-profit organization. We seek no monetary gain from posting the correct information about our organization, only that the correct information is posted on sites such as this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by USPC2015 (talk • contribs) 18:41, 15 October 2015 (UTC)

@Montanabw: This user had erased the entire USPC page, so I reverted their edit and put it back up. White Arabian mare (Neigh) 19:41, 15 October 2015 (UTC)White Arabian mare

Black Allan picture

Here's the URL for the picture of Black Allan: [2]. White Arabian mare (Neigh) 14:06, 16 October 2015 (UTC)

AAQHC

Hi, Montana! Thanks for tweaking the categories on the AAQHC. I'm actually at the Congress now, and hope to capture some pictures for the article but I won't be able to upload anything until I get back to Texas in 10 days. Anyway, there's a lot more that can be added so your collaboration is most welcome. Atsme^📞📧 01:51, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

Hi Atsme! Glad we can have a happy collaboration and ping me when you get photos up! Montanabw^(talk) 01:58, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

Tennessee Walking Horse National Celebration

Just thought I'd let you know that I went ahead and created the Tennessee Walking Horse National Celebration article. I know I'm going to have to keep a close eye because it'll probably be a vandalism target, but I thought I might as well do it because somebody else would if I didn't. Anyway, I put a whole section about the controversies stuff. Thought you might wanta check it out.. White Arabian mare (Neigh) 18:45, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

ADD: sorry if that seemed POV. It just seems screwy that the HSUS always releases a new Walking Horse abuse video perfectly in time to coincide with the beginning of the Celebration. 😝 I've watched both the attack and defense videos on YouTube too. I think the best way was how they showed Midnight Sun. White Arabian mare (Neigh) 20:22, 17 October 2015 (UTC)White Arabian mare

No worries, I have handled far more controversial articles (see, e.g. Charreada, for example; I've also had several circuses with the various rodeo articles). It's a question of tone. The reality is that when you have the New York Times covering the problem, the 2006 debacle and people like Jackie McConnell out there, that does a lot of damage to the reputation of the breed. (nightline, this, etc...). My thinking is that it's best to "teach the controversy" and present the viewpoints of each side fairly. I think that readers are intelligent people and if we do a really good job with NPOV, they are able to draw conclusions. (Wull disclosure: I was on the team that got Horse Protection Act of 1970 to FA Montanabw^(talk) 02:46, 18 October 2015 (UTC)

It's not the factual opposition and the actual stuff that goes on that I dislike; it's the people who've never seen a TWH in their lives and yet are all over the horse forums posting stuff they made up! I always remember a question on a forum where somebody asked what the big lick pads were made of. Somebody else answered and said they were made of rubber filled with sand and lead shavings, and weighed 15 pounds each. I've picked them up and I know that's not true! I just wish these people could see both sides of it, but people are always blind to what goes on in their own little world and quick to start attacking others. It's why most of the people posting "big lick torture" on Walking Horse videos are Quarter Horse people, and most of the people posting "four-beat lope! Dead tail!" on QH videos are TWH people.😣 White Arabian mare (Neigh) 16:17, 18 October 2015 (UTC)White Arabian mare

I see three issues: 1) The genuine problems, which, like most human problems, the people closest to the situation won't police themselves because it impacts their livelihood (or they fear it will), 2) the ignorant, like the people who you describe on the forums, and then 3) the willfully dishonest or malicious who promote a mob hystria - like the PETA video about horse racing they put out about a year and a half-ago; they used an image of a horse being tubed - which we know to be a standard veterinary procedure - and used it as a lead image to make a case for abuse; they also mixed recordings that didn't match the images to imply a person was saying bad stuff about an injured animal and such. Montanabw^(talk) 21:47, 18 October 2015 (UTC)

I remember seeing a video put up by a PETA member that was titled "Shocking!!!! Horse Abuse!!!" and consisted of reining horses spinning, a trainer hobble breaking a young horse, and a dressage horse cantering. I laughed through the whole thing. That was their idea of abuse. White Arabian mare (Neigh) 23:49, 18 October 2015 (UTC)White Arabian mare

Not that there isn't abuse in those fields. I've watched reining horses being trained; some folks are not kind in obtaining the precision required. The practice of rollkur was banned by national law in Switzerland. I've dealt with horses with injected tails. The problem is that PETA doesn't help the underlying causes they claim to support because at root I hold the view that they have a different agenda altogether; ever notice how they flock to high-interest areas more than high-abuse areas? Montanabw^(talk) 00:43, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

I've noticed, and seen abuse in most horse sports I've seen. PETA's just a lot of nuts in my opinion. They claim to help animals and yet they want all pit bulls dead because one bit Ingrid Newkirk; they pass out propaganda in the form of "Your Mommy Kills Animals!" comic books to children in elementary school, and call fish "sea kittens". I'm surprised people can even take them seriously. White Arabian mare (Neigh) 01:30, 19 October 2015 (UTC)White Arabian mare

Well, I'll refrain from going further down the not-NPOV here in case I have to deal further with those sorts of issues in the future, but I guess my own view is probably middle-of-the-road; I usually recognize abuse - but also dishonesty - vis-a-vis animal issues when I see it - and I'll call it as I see it... ;-) Montanabw^(talk) 02:06, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

Hey stalkers

Requested move at Talk:Calf_(disambiguation)#Requested_move_18_October_2015. Montanabw^(talk) 23:09, 18 October 2015 (UTC)

Note to myself - stop stalking Montanabw's talk page! What the hell is going on over there! I have never seen such short fuses over a page move, and that last deletion of the Talk Page edits was unbelievable - I sent the editor a warning to his talk page. Please feel free to contact me over similar disputes in the future.DrChrissy ^(talk) 14:02, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

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Canadian federal election

Will you be following the returns tonight? Freddiem (talk) 23:48, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

USPC (yeah, again)

There's yet another new user editing the United States Pony Clubs page, and that's all their contrib history shows. They had put the lead-in to the rest of the article under a heading titled 'summary' so I reverted it. I think they did something else too, but it was minor and I didn't revert it. I sent them a talk page message explaining why we don't use double headers since the article title IS the header for the lead-in, and suggesting they look at other articles for examples or join WPEQ. I just thought I'd let you know... White Arabian mare (Neigh) 01:07, 20 October 2015 (UTC)

Help improving content about museums in New Mexico

New Mexico museums need help in improving or adding their content. I see that there's a list Museums in New Mexico, which is a helpful start, and also a wiki Museum Project that offers guidelines for good article content, which is also helpful, and we have an opportunity in November, at our New Mexico Association of Museums meeting in Carlsbad, to get museums on board with this. I can create a worksheet/template based on the Museum Project guidelines, that will help museums get someone to write their article, but issues will arise with formatting and making info boxes and collections galleries, etc. In my ideal world there would be someone out there who could come to the conference and work with interested museums to help them get their acts together. Also, in my ideal world there would be someone interested in being a Wikipedian-in-Residence who could help us plow through that list of Museums in New Mexico, or one or more volunteers who would help us working remotely. Please let me know your thoughts. Thank you. Mimi.roberts (talk) 15:25, 20 October 2015 (UTC)

I'll email you. But also check out WP:GLAM/Montana History. Montanabw^(talk) 04:24, 22 October 2015 (UTC)

"Domestic horse -> Horse" edit

Hi. That was an interesting last edit of yours on the Horse page. A quick check of other livestock shows the same situation at Sheep at least. Am I correct in thinking that the title in the taxbox should match as close as possible the title of the article?DrChrissy ^(talk) 13:27, 21 October 2015 (UTC)

There was a gigantic "drahmah" a few years back when someone wanted to name all the livestock articles "domestic foo" of various sorts. I think this was a remnant holdover. I'd maybe post at talk for changing any of the other articles, just in case it still matters to someone. I was bold on horse because I was on the team that brought it to GA. Montanabw^(talk) 01:36, 22 October 2015 (UTC)

Montana PBS links

Hello Montanabw, thanks for helping out with checking those links for usability. I noticed that the one for Anaconda Copper Mine (Montana) still shows a 404 error. Unfortunately I wasn't able to find an active replacement and the info page for this particular video is very short. Anyway, just a fyi - maybe you have a better idea where to look for an active link. GermanJoe (talk) 03:58, 22 October 2015 (UTC)

A cup of tea for you!

With this ever dramatic world and winter coming, here's a cup of tea to alleviate your day (ease that tension)! This e-tea's remains have been e-composted SwisterTwister talk 05:53, 22 October 2015 (UTC)

• Thank you! I presume this is Tea. Earl Grey. Hot. Much appreciated.

Longevity-related AfD's and GNG guidelines

Hi Montanabw, thankyou for your recent contributions at some longevity-related AfD's.

I am in agreement that instead of nominating countless supercentenarian articles for deletion, a more general discussion needs to take place about what standards need to be met for a subject to "qualify for notability". For example, should people in the following categories be considered notable: World's oldest people/women/men titleholders, oldest ever person from country X, Top 100 oldest ever people/woman/men ever, etc.

The main concern I have right now is that a WP:BATTLEGROUND appears to have developed around longevity-related articles. I think some users are trying to counteract the addition of WP:OR and WP:TRIVIA to some articles by other users, but have almost ended up pushing too far, and seem to have a bias against them. Unfortunately, in several past AfD's, RfC's, and other discussions, these editors always contribute and this may, at times, lead to a false representation of the true consensus of the wider community, which I feel has damaged Wikipedia's articles on the subject of longevity.

Therefore, I'd like it if more editors can get involved in this project. May I ask how we can go about having a discussion about supercentenarian notability and WP:GNG? Thanks -- Ollie231213 (talk) 00:18, 23 October 2015 (UTC)

Perhaps specific guidelines could be developed at Wikipedia:Notability_(people); similarly to those of NACTOR, NPOLITICIAN, etc. The centenarian articles probably should mostly be listified, I wish that the AfD crowd would just merge stuff rather than have AfD drahmahz. Oh, wait, that would mean they'd have to create content, which is more work. Whoops. Montanabw^(talk) 17:06, 23 October 2015 (UTC)

Take Charge Brandi

Thanks for doing the wrap-up on her racing career. Given her pedigree and performance I suspect that we have not heard the last of her. Expect to see a Brandi's Kitten or a Tap It Brandi in a couple of years time. Tigerboy1966  10:11, 24 October 2015 (UTC)

I agree, sounds like we know which farms she should visit! Montanabw^(talk) 21:09, 24 October 2015 (UTC)

A Present

File:, Massimo Stanzione - Judith with the Head of Holofernes ( c. 1630–35)

Thank you...

I want to thank you for restoring many of the Montana-related links that had been reverted. I was very discouraged to see so many hours of my work simply disappear. You make a positive difference here and I'm grateful!Guanaco55 (talk) 15:40, 27 October 2015 (UTC)

Thanks. The problem was that several went to 404 pages; some links expire. Always best to try and find permanent links when you can! Montanabw^(talk) 17:11, 27 October 2015 (UTC)

Pedigree

I just created Merry Go Boy. I have a question about the pedigrees, though--on one like his where some horses are unknown, is it better to leave the formatting tags (mffm) or put a question mark where the name would go to show that the ancestor is unknown? White Arabian mare (Neigh) 15:51, 27 October 2015 (UTC)

I would say "unknown". I'll pop by. Montanabw^(talk) 17:06, 27 October 2015 (UTC)

Thanks. 😊 I may end up writing one about Albert Dement; he keeps popping up and he was apparently the Hank Weiscamp of Walkers. Google turns up several good refs, books and stuff. White Arabian mare (Neigh) 18:27, 27 October 2015 (UTC)White Arabian mare

• Just keep finding good source material, also continue to let me know if you need any help. You are really doing a lot of terrific work here and so far you have yet to make the same mistake twice! (LOL!) -- Seriously, I made as many or more errors when I was new to wiki and still am capable of massive screwups (Like the one yesterday where I rollbacked your edit and then had to rollback my mistake...)! Keep up your good work! Montanabw^(talk) 18:37, 27 October 2015 (UTC)

I hope I am doing lots of good; maybe I am, because I just got given my first barnstar about an hour ago! 🎆 I am doing lots better with the pedigrees now (first time I screwed it up so bad that I had to blank the whole thing and start over) but I have the hang of them now. Is it OK to say "saddle seat" in discipline on the Walking Horse pages (noticed you changed one of them to show horse)? I don't know if that's really considered to be saddle seat by the USEF or whoever, but it looks like it. Anyway it's not a big deal. White Arabian mare (Neigh) 21:16, 27 October 2015 (UTC)White Arabian mare

It's confusing... "Saddle seat" is not terminology used to describe pleasure or park classes, only equitation (I've seen "saddle type" and "hunter type" though, but only at open shows. Regional uses include saying "English" when saddle seat is meant, and "Hunter" for hunt seat...); Unless you have something real specific, like "Plantation-style" or "Five-gaited" or something, it's better to use the general discipline, and "show horse" is probably best. Montanabw^(talk) 22:10, 27 October 2015 (UTC)

It's calling to you...

Rainbow butterfly unicorn kittens. Really. It is. Ealdgyth - Talk 01:29, 29 October 2015 (UTC)

PPPPBBBTTTTTT!  :-P Montanabw^(talk) 02:10, 29 October 2015 (UTC)

Chilukki Stakes

It is not just this article, but I am using it as an example. The formatting is off. External links is in small type and the section header is far off to the right. Some articles have the same problem with references sections. How do we fix these?...William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 12:45, 29 October 2015 (UTC)

I did a fix, @WilliamJE: I don't know what all the problems are, but changing the formatting in the previous section that had columns seemed to fix part of the problems. Ping me as to others in the same situation or maybe put the whole list at WP:Horse Racing and also ping RexxS who is a formatting genius. Montanabw^(talk) 16:17, 29 October 2015 (UTC)

The problem is that when you try to make 3 columns by floating 3 divs at 33% width each, there's a tiny column of 1% left over. The <br> that was trying to clear those floats is unfortunately an inline element so doesn't work in this case. If a <div>...</div> with style="clear:all;" is used instead, it normally behaves as you would expect because div is a block element.

Anyway, MontanaBW, your fix works well with most modern browsers and doesn't cause much problem for mobile browsers. It's also flexible if the number of items in the list changes, so I'd recommend it to anyone who has been having problems with multiple column lists. Cheers --RexxS (talk) 18:13, 29 October 2015 (UTC)

You've probably already seen this, but...

Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Optional RfA candidate poll

White Arabian mare (Neigh) 16:08, 29 October 2015 (UTC)

Amusing. If I posted there it would be really interesting. I think I'll pass... for now. But thanks for the ping! Montanabw^(talk) 16:19, 29 October 2015 (UTC)

Want to get really amused? Put my name up and see the negative numbers I'll get....William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 19:38, 29 October 2015 (UTC)

We could do it like a Presidential campaign and run as a ticket... LOL! Montanabw^(talk) 21:50, 29 October 2015 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) Hilarious! I so bookmarked that page Vesuvius Dogg (talk) 21:57, 29 October 2015 (UTC)

Because obviously it is such a perfect system to determine such things. Montanabw^(talk) 22:02, 29 October 2015 (UTC)

Yep, perfect. People's opinions are always the perfect predictor of what really happens when it gets down to the actual voting. White Arabian mare (Neigh) 00:39, 30 October 2015 (UTC)White Arabian mare

Assist?

I am OK with your bold move, but would you care to assist with the links redirected from the old title? (The others are probably not worth the trouble) [3]? Montanabw^(talk) 22:04, 26 October 2015 (UTC)

Please excuse my delayed reply. I needed a break and have been away from WP for a few days. I'm happy to help update redirects. The Transhumanist 09:09, 31 October 2015 (UTC)

 Done   I've replaced the following links:

• North American Thoroughbred horse racing terminology
• North American horse racing terminology

If you would like further assistance, please let me know. The Transhumanist 10:36, 31 October 2015 (UTC)

Nyquist

I created a stub for Nyquist (horse) and plan to expand it after I'm done watching TV (there's another horse I'm watching). Am happy to do the pedigree section. Will you have a look? Vesuvius Dogg (talk) 21:01, 31 October 2015 (UTC)

I tried to add an infobox but had to remove it...😝 I screwed it up someway. White Arabian mare (Neigh) 22:51, 31 October 2015 (UTC)White Arabian mare

I'll trot oevr as soon as the dust clears on Pharoah's update. Montanabw^(talk) 22:58, 31 October 2015 (UTC)

I was going to do that too and somebody beat me! I loved watching him win today though, he is the best horse in my lifetime so far. I was born too late for Secretariat. 😉 White Arabian mare (Neigh) 00:17, 1 November 2015 (UTC)White Arabian mare

• We also need an article for Stephanie's Kitten, she's had a long career, capped by the win today in the Filly & Mare Turf. (Some info at Kenneth and Sarah Ramsey) Montanabw^(talk) 00:27, 1 November 2015 (UTC)

Trick or trout

I've reverted it back in: sorry! --Rubbish computer (Trick: or treat?) 23:17, 31 October 2015 (UTC)

Halloween cheer!

Happy Halloween!

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Congratulations on 5,000,000 articles

for all your contributions, thank you.

Smallbones_(smalltalk) 13:29, 1 November 2015 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

		The Minor Barnstar
		Although you did not make the top 16 of Round 1, you did participate and you still deserve a barnstar. Thank you so much for being a part of the 2nd Annual GA Cup and we hope to see you next year! MrWooHoo (talk) 23:29, 1 November 2015 (UTC)

YouTube external links?

Is it OK on the Walking Horse articles to provide an external link to a YouTube video of the horse (Midnight Sun and Strolling Jim specifically, there's actual footage of them on YouTube and may be some of Merry Go Boy too---not sure)? Without getting slammed for "spamming"? I mean, create an external links section, and put the link to the specific video there. White Arabian mare (Neigh) 23:59, 2 November 2015 (UTC)

• Generally, yes, see, e.g. the EL section of California Chrome. Montanabw^(talk) 00:03, 3 November 2015 (UTC)

Thanks, will probably do so tomorrow. The videos are blurry, but then again I'm sort of surprised they even bothered to take them back then. I think there may be one for Wing Commander too. White Arabian mare (Neigh) 01:00, 3 November 2015 (UTC)White Arabian mare

Ping

[4] Join in if you want. Regardless, I thought you should know it's happening. --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 14:33, 3 November 2015 (UTC)

Thank you for the ping, Anthonyhcole. I appreciate the invitation, and appreciate knowing I am a topic of discussion, but for now, I think I shall simply continue to lurk there. ;-) I am pleased to see, though, that the individual in question has openly confessed that deliberate use of WP:OR and WP:SYNTH is her m.o. I shall bookmark that link and keep it for future reference. I do hope that those encouraging her to self-publish elsewhere are successful in their mentorship and advocacy, as clearly, a person should follow their heart. Montanabw^(talk) 17:11, 3 November 2015 (UTC)

What's going on there? I'm lazy. Give me the executive summary. --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 18:11, 3 November 2015 (UTC)

Essentially, there are extremely long and convoluted threads at Talk:Mustang (and a subpage, plus the archives), Talk:Free-roaming horse management in North America, Talk:Rocky Mountain Fur Company and Talk:Fur trade in Montana (current spat) and the user's talk page. All start with this user's penchant for OR and SYNTH and continue to devolve into personal attacks and other unpleasantness. It is very difficult to follow the threads because this user makes dozens of small edits where most editors would make only one or two, and this clouds the edit history considerably. If the user at the link you posted is the same user as the one with the same name on wikipedia, and I believe it is, the posts at the bottom of page one of the link you provided basically confirms what this user has said elsewhere, which is that she is using WP as a place to post her own research. Of course she is angry that I am willing to call her out on this. Montanabw^(talk) 18:38, 3 November 2015 (UTC)

Her behaviour now seems quite different from RO's, on my superficial grasp of both. For a while you (and I) were wondering if they were the same person. Where do you stand on that, now? --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 18:54, 3 November 2015 (UTC)

I now am pretty sure she and RO are totally different people, but they both share a dislike of me and in both cases, their wrath erupted when I called them out on sloppy editing; and their reactions to me is what led me to suspect socking. I still think Wysong is a returned user, but I shall assume she intended a WP:CLEANSTART and drop that particular stick. I also initially thought she resembled ItsLassieTime (and we did catch one ILT sock in that "duck box" period, User:SeeSpot Run), but ILT's MO was copypasting stuff directly from a source, whereas SLW's MO is OR and SYNTH, so I don't think she's ILT, either. But there are three banned socks who have good reason to hate my guts, so I remain alert. Montanabw^(talk) 19:07, 3 November 2015 (UTC)

I suppose you've considered a mutual interaction/comment ban - between you and RO, I mean. --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 06:16, 4 November 2015 (UTC)

It has been proposed, but I don't think it will solve anything, iBans seldom do; they merely prolong the inevitable. Though I have been making a point of avoiding RO, we edit in areas where there will be occasional overlap (American West, music) so all an iBan would do is create a game of "gotcha" which would create ANI drama and be nothing but a waste of everyone's time. I've edited something like 11,000 unique pages in nearly 80,000 edits, so the probability that RO could inadvertently hit a page I've edited is also pretty high. It is his/ her behavior that can be examined on a case by case basis, and I would suggest that his/her decision to create an off-wiki attack thread on a message board needs to be factored in. Montanabw^(talk) 17:53, 4 November 2015 (UTC)

RO is also capable of tag-teaming. I tend to consider both elements as classic examples of the "nice" behavior which is often tolerated (if not encouraged) here. Intothatdarkness 18:02, 4 November 2015 (UTC)

Thanks

Hello Montanabw, Viriditas has smiled at you! Smiles promote WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by smiling at someone else, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Go on, smile! Cheers, and happy editing!
Smile at others by adding {{subst:Smile}} to their talk page with a friendly message.

Cabal of the outcasts

The user box of that content was deleted, as it was created by an outcast. Please make your own using the {{User QAIbox}}. Do you remember image and wording of the former? I remember that it was green, said something like "counts themselves among the cabal of the outcasts", and showed a stone mason casting. I miss it. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:28, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

New article

Even if it's outside your wheelhouse, I could use a pair of copyediting eyes on Louise de Broglie, Countess d'Haussonville, newly created by me on Englsh Wikipedia. (There's a French Wikipédia version, which provided some inspiration and a couple factoids, although I mostly re-sourced this to English language RS while expanding and rewriting it.) I can't figure out how to do the fr:Wikipedia linky thing, which I used to be able to do. Could you have a whack at it? Hoping to bring this to DYK. The sitter is fascinating and her portrait ridiculously famous. Thanks if you can help Vesuvius Dogg (talk) 02:56, 6 November 2015 (UTC)

Took a whack at it, feel free to revert anything you don't like, it's all just my opinion. Montanabw^(talk) 05:24, 6 November 2015 (UTC)

Animal treatment in rodeo

Do you care if I put an AfD on this article? The topic is already covered in rodeo, it's a POV PETA propaganda piece, and it was written by a sock. I've thought of trying to edit it but don't know where to start. It's a piece of crap. I normally don't like deleting articles but... White Arabian mare (Neigh) 17:58, 6 November 2015 (UTC)

While I agree with your reasoning; I'm concerned about drama... sometimes it's useful to give people their own little drama corner so they stay away from the main articles. Your call, but if drama erupts, stay cool... Montanabw^(talk) 19:57, 6 November 2015 (UTC)

I may post at the Teahouse or somewhere to get more opinions, thanks. White Arabian mare (Neigh) 20:31, 6 November 2015 (UTC)

Looks like the consensus is keep. I removed the stuff that used Peta as a source (they're not exactly reliable) and am planning to do more tomorrow. May be a decent article of it can be balanced out. White Arabian mare (Neigh) 02:15, 7 November 2015 (UTC)

Go ahead and take a look at the sources used in rodeo, bronc riding, bull riding, etc. I've vetted those sections (heck I wrote or rewrote much of them) and to the extent the questionable sources are there, it's for explaining all sides per WP:NPOV. The biggest challenge I think I've had was at Charreada, where I REALLY had to put my personal opinions aside... but got there. Good luck. Montanabw^(talk) 02:37, 7 November 2015 (UTC)

Equine podiatry

There appears to be somebody using the equine podiatry article to self-promote now. Al 21 of their edits (since they joined a year ago) are to it last night. I undid a little of what they had done, and sent them a message about self-promoting requesting that they use the talk page to propose changes. Gag. White Arabian mare (Neigh) 15:36, 7 November 2015 (UTC)

Nothing new there, that article has always been a problem that way. Refer to WP:COI and if they give you trouble, there's a COI noticeboard, I think. Don't hassle them solo, best to have backup. Montanabw^(talk) 01:43, 8 November 2015 (UTC)

Ok, thanks. By the way, I wrote something about Caspian horses on your horse breeds snark page a while back: I'm thinking of creating something like myself! White Arabian mare (Neigh) 02:19, 8 November 2015 (UTC)

You're invited! Women in Red World Virtual Edit-a-thon on Women in Science

You are invited! Join us remotely! World Virtual Edit-a-thon on Women in Science

Dates: 8 to 29 November 2015 Location: Worldwide/virtual/online event Host/Facilitator: Women in Red (WiR) in collaboration with Women scientists: Did you know that only 15% of the biographies on Wikipedia are about women? WiR focuses on "content gender gap". If you'd like to help contribute articles on women and women's works, we warmly welcome you! Sponsor: New York Academy of Sciences Event details: This is a virtual edit-a-thon hosted by WiR in parallel with a "physical" event during the afternoon of Sunday, November 22 in New York City. It will allow all those keen to improve Wikipedia's coverage of women in science to participate. As the virtual edit-a-thon stretches over three weeks, new participants will be able to draw on the assistance of more experienced editors while creating, translating or improving articles on women who are (or have been) prominent in the field. All levels of Wikipedia editing experience are welcome. RSVP and learn more: →here← --Rosiestep (talk) 02:49, 8 November 2015 (UTC)

New article!

I just created this so feel free to look it over. It's a stub right now, but I hope to add sections and more stuff later. Also you may get a laugh out of this. I'm going out riding in a couple of minutes, but I'll be back on later. 🐴 White Arabian mare (Neigh) 21:35, 10 November 2015 (UTC)

^{(talk page stalker)}*LOL* Where's the beef?!! Atsme^📞📧 23:09, 10 November 2015 (UTC)

I think they do have cutting, reining and some other working Western classes at the Morgan Grand National; I'll see if I can find a web class list later and add more. 😃 I'm thinking about moving those "glitter pony" things to a whole subpage. I bet there are tons of them out there. ADD: I created this one on Sunday; you might want to look it over too. White Arabian mare (Neigh) 23:29, 10 November 2015 (UTC)

Cool work, WAM! I'm having one of those times when RL has hit the "insane busy" period, so if I'm not on a bunch, still feel free to post here and alert my friendly talk page stalkers that you welcome help and such! Montanabw^(talk) 21:24, 11 November 2015 (UTC)

Genetically modified organisms arbitration proposed decision posted

Hi Montanabw. A proposed decision has been posted for the Genetically modified organisms arbitration case, for which you are on the notification list. Comments about the proposed decision are welcome at the proposed decision talk page. Thank you. For the Arbitration Committee, L235 (t / c / ping in reply) via MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 01:05, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

Honeybee Stakes

In this article its box says it started in 1988 and that is up year the article has winners for but at the bottom it was categorized 'Recurring sporting events established in 1935'. Can you confirm this race started in 1988? I changed the categories to say 1988....William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 16:10, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

I'm guessing this is one of those races that has had its name changed, maybe ping Stellabystarlight, she's our resident expert on US horse races. Montanabw^(talk) 17:20, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

email

I have sent you one. — Ched :  ?  21:08, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

I'm baaack

Yeah, I'm back with a new name. WAF instead of WAM, but it was the closest I could get. White Arabian Filly (Neigh) 21:27, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

Something funny

Been wanting to do this for a while! White Arabian Filly (Neigh) 02:26, 15 November 2015 (UTC)

Drained...

I apologize for not being more active on the project but the ArbCom fiasco has drained me of motivation and is one heckuva time sink. I've been reading the comments and edit summaries and as soon as this mess closes, I'll be able to focus where I should be focused. 😐 Atsme^📞📧 19:15, 16 November 2015 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) You are doing a lot of good on the cutting and associated articles. 😄 White Arabian Filly (Neigh) 21:07, 16 November 2015 (UTC)

Dry Doc (declaration)

Finally got a little time to do some work, and created Dry Doc to go with the Doc O'Lena, Poco Lena x Doc Bar magic. My declaration is that he was owned by my late brother-in-law, and just before he sold Dry to the King Ranch, we seriously considered his offer to sell us 1/2 interest but conceded when a much higher counter offer came to the table. I provided only factual info when I created the article. Do you think I need to make any other declarations? Atsme^📞📧 02:08, 17 November 2015 (UTC)

I'll make a point of watchlisting the article and if I see any NPOV issues, I'll let you know. So long as you only cite to reputable third-party sources (stuff like the Quarter Horse Journal, etc...) and have no OR or SYNTH, I think that you are fine. That said, if you wanted, you could add the {{Connected contributor}} template to the talk page the way I did for a while here. I agreed to allow that tag on that article during a time when I was actively pushing a "political" agenda to get AHA to pull their head out of their butt and admit that cerebellar abiotrophy was real. Someone pissed off at me (nothing new there) tried to out me and a bunch of other nonsense because they were mad that I was publicly stating that there were genetic diseases in the breed (this about the same time AQHA was trying to ban HYPP horses and getting a test for HERDA), and putting that tag up settled the matter. I took it off once the issue was no longer an issue and I went back to being an ordinary dues-paying member. Montanabw^(talk) 02:22, 17 November 2015 (UTC)

Thanks, M - I don't have a political agenda but I've been on WP long enough to know that it doesn't prevent being accused of it, so just to be on the safe side, (and in light of the prior COIN fiasco), I've added the tag. Also, I have several B&W photos of some of the legendary foundation horses such as Poco Bueno, Poco Lena, Poco Tivio, Poco Champ, Pretty Buck, Snipper W, Peter McCue, Traveler, Bar Bob, Little Joe and possibly a few others. I have some marked copies at my website [5] (which desperately needs an overhaul) but I haven't decided if I should share the clean copies of these rare photos with WP. My late husband is pictured showing some of the Poco horses in "Get of Sire" (Poco Bueno) and "Produce of Dam" (Sheilwin) photos , which is why I have them. Atsme^📞📧 13:05, 17 November 2015 (UTC)

If the photos were published prior to 1978 and copyright not renewed, they might be public domain anyway. (Otherwise I think copyright is life of photographer plus 75...) I'm tagging Ealdgyth again on this discussion because she will have useful insights. I know that the GLAM movement seeks to get historic images uploaded to Commons, and if you either took the photo or own the copyright, that would be real interesting. The problem is if these are show photos another photographer took and sold to you, usually copyright stays with the photographer (there's some complicated stuff about works for hire...) but anyway those are some cool photos! Montanabw^(talk) 14:54, 17 November 2015 (UTC)

Work for hire only really comes in if you are an employee, not if you a show photographer. Show photographs are copyrighted by the photographer, and unless you acquired the copyright when you bought the photograph (which would have involved paperwork, not merely the purchase of the photo) you don't have the copyright. In most cases, you get rights to reproduce, but that isn't copyright. (We sell our horse photographs with unlimited reproduction rights, but copyright remains with us. We also get releases from the owners to use photos in other contexts - such as wikipedia.) The funny thing about unpublished show photos is that even if they were taken before 1978, they probably are still considered copyrighted by the photographer. If you didn't take the photo and you don't know if it ever got published ... it's better to assume it's copyrighted by the photographer. The only "safe" photos are those from before 1923, unfortunately. If you don't know the copyright status and it's from after 1923, assume it's copyrighted and go fair use. Ealdgyth - Talk 15:12, 17 November 2015 (UTC)

And this means that, as was done for, say, Khemosabi, you CAN use (usually one, occasionally two) photographs of the horse, but with a fair use rationale and only on en.wiki, you can't upload them to commons. Ealdgyth is right that, when in doubt, fair use is the way to handle it. If you solve the copyright question later, you can then port the image to commons, but if Fair Use, then it has to stay "local."

That said, and @Ealdgyth:, am I correct on this (?), "published" can include being used in a magazine ad or even a sales brochure (if you can prove it- scan into Google docs or something), provided that it's pre-1978 AND the magazine or sales brochure was either never copyighted or copyright was not renewed (and that can be proved). Is that your understanding as well? (looking around for the WP:COPYRIGHT detail and not finding it at the moment...) Montanabw^(talk) 21:32, 17 November 2015 (UTC)

I would THINK so, but ... I wouldn't bet on it either. Copyright is just plain .. not much fun. It's easier for stuff past 1978, but our laws prior to that (remembering all the fun extensions the Mouse House (tm) has engineered) are a mess and it's almost impossible to research the status of an image that isn't clearly copyrighted. Books are easier, but photos/images very often were not renewed, but there isn't a good way to search whether they were renewed. It's like a mire of quicksand waiting to drag you under with your least little misstep. (And all those extensions just make it worse and worse...) Ealdgyth - Talk 21:36, 17 November 2015 (UTC)

I know what you mean about not fun! By "extensions," you are referring to... (I think I know what you are referring to... if it's a particular film conglomerate with a litigious streak, all made famous by a mouse...). Clarify? (And are there wikipedia articles on those cases?) Montanabw^(talk) 21:44, 17 November 2015 (UTC)

Yeah, we're talking Disney. I don't know if we have articles on those "cases" (they aren't cases, actually, they are extensions to the old copyright laws (pre-1978) that they keep pushing through making the "public domain date" stay at 1923 when by all rights it should have moved up towards about 1940 or so at least.) Back in the mid-90s when I started working on bloodline research, the public domain date was .. 1923. Everything before that was in the public domain. Fast forward to 2015 and the "magic date" is STILL 1923. Has a lot to do with the fact that Mickey Mouse was created in 1928 and ... well... we can't have the mouse's films in public domain, can we? Copyright Term Extension Act kinda explains it. Ealdgyth - Talk 21:52, 17 November 2015 (UTC)

OK, dammit, you just sent me down a research geekery rabbit hole for an hour! (see timestamps!) But, I found this cool site which even has a "calculator" - an interactive flow chart of sorts. I just added it to my toolbox. Now, to go find those WP policy pages I always wish I could find... Montanabw^(talk) 23:01, 17 November 2015 (UTC)

advice for improving articles to GA

Hey, Montanabw — I'm thinking of bringing Robert Durst and The Jinx (miniseries) to GA status over the next few months, as I'm the majority contributor to both articles (which are well-trafficked but very stable). I can't tell you how much I learned from our collaborative work and your helpful hand-holding, and I'm pretty confident that the process of conforming footnotes and cleaning up ledes will be pretty easy for me (my contributions to those articles predate meeting you but the sourcing is very sound). I did wonder about a couple things: is there a strong prejudice at GA against articles without images? It's particularly hard to find them for Robert Durst, unless I salt the article with generic milieu images which may not add great EV. I also have a potentially big sourcing problem for The Jinx, in that one section I and others find very useful (the cast in order of appearance) was in fact contributed by someone who watched the series intently and took chronological notes. While accurate, it isn't secondarily sourced; unless I construct some footnote acknowledging that it comes directly from the broadcast (does that count as WP:OR?) that section risks being dropped altogether, which would be a loss to Durstaholics. Anyway, I know this is not your bailiwick or particular area of interest but would appreciate your advice. GA is also very backed up right now; I obviously want to contribute reviews there as well to build up my karma. Is that a good plan to help speed the process? Thanks again for everything — Vesuvius Dogg (talk) 02:55, 17 November 2015 (UTC)

• You will run into a little prejudice on articles without images, but it can - and is - frequently overcome; you just make a case for your efforts to find one and why you were unsuccessful. Doing reviews is a GREAT way to gain good karma (I also have a go-to list of reviewers), especially if you select articles written by editors who have prior GAs and themselves do GA reviews. As for the broadcast issue, if your source noted which episode each person appeared in, you could link to each episode, yes. You'd have trouble at FAC with that, but should be OK here. (Your source should publish the list somewhere at a third-party site...even imdb would do) At a cursory glance, they are both almost there with just a bit of cleanup and being sure you are following WP:BLP. I'd try to rearrange Jinx so the lists are lower down in the article, JMO. Montanabw^(talk) 03:08, 17 November 2015 (UTC)

Thank you, thank you! Helpful (and encouraging) as always Vesuvius Dogg (talk) 04:10, 17 November 2015 (UTC)

Caste system in India talk page

Please see Caste system in India talk page.VictoriaGrayson^Talk 21:49, 17 November 2015 (UTC)

I did, it's RS, though how it is being used in the context of the page may or may not be... @VictoriaGrayson:. Montanabw^(talk) 23:02, 17 November 2015 (UTC)

Grant's Farm

Dear , I reverted your revert of Grant's Farm, I understand that you did in good faith, but those two templates, {Infobox Zoo} and {Zoos} are different, and not the same, that's why I removed one Template and at the same time added the need for [[Category:Articles needing infobox zoo]].

If you have an interest in Zoos, and those articles, maybe you can consider joining me with the work at Wikipedia:WikiProject Zoo, where Im presently the only active member and contributor. Dan Koehl (talk) 14:12, 20 November 2015 (UTC)

I bet if you posted over at WikiProjects Animals, Mammals, etc., you might also round up a few more helpers! Montanabw^(talk) 17:33, 20 November 2015 (UTC)

Help needed at DRN

You are receiving this message because you are signed up as a volunteer at the Dispute Resolution Noticeboard. We have a number of pending requests which need a volunteer to address them. Unless you are an inexperienced volunteer who is currently just watching DRN to learn our processes, please take a case. If you do not see yourself taking cases in the foreseeable future, please remove yourself from the volunteer list so that we can have a better idea of the size of our pool of volunteers; if you do see yourself taking cases, please watchlist the DRN page and keep an eye out to see if there are cases which are ready for a volunteer. We have recently had to refuse a number of cases because they were listed for days with no volunteer willing to take them, despite there being almost 150 volunteers listed on the volunteer page. Regards, TransporterMan (talk · contribs) (Current DRN coordinator) This is an informational posting only and I am not watching this page; contact me on my user talk page if you wish to communicate with me about this. via MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 19:48, 20 November 2015 (UTC)

Cow tipping

Sure. Why not? It's nothing I know anything about, which is one good reason to investigate. What's there already looks pretty impressive, especially the stuff involving quantitative measurements and test runs. Finetooth (talk) 02:41, 22 November 2015 (UTC)

The fact that someone actually researched the question just gives me the giggles! Montanabw^(talk) 02:43, 22 November 2015 (UTC)

Today

St Cecilia's Day

A Boy was Born

Music in your ears and heart! (in a box) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:57, 22 November 2015 (UTC)

For something totally different

I just created the stub article Missoula Timberjacks. (My three favorite sports that have articles that I like working on- Golf, Baseball, and Horse racing) The reason I'm writing is because I know you do lots of work on Montana related articles. There is both a Montana Sports and Missoula templates but both of these I didn't add to the article because neither contained any defunct sports franchises. Should they? Please give me your opinion, and if you think they should be included, how we would modify the templates....William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 15:44, 22 November 2015 (UTC)

Fun! I honestly don't know about the templates, maybe post at the talk pages and see what folks have to say. As for Charley Pride, I can give you another obscure team, he went from the Timberjacks to the East Helena Smelterites: [6]. Montanabw^(talk) 19:02, 22 November 2015 (UTC)

Clean

I have checked your page, as requested. You are clean.--Anthony Bradbury^"talk" 18:53, 22 November 2015 (UTC)

Thanks. Damn vandals. Montanabw^(talk) 18:57, 22 November 2015 (UTC)

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ArbCom elections are now open!

Hi,
You appear to be eligible to vote in the current Arbitration Committee election. The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to enact binding solutions for disputes between editors, primarily related to serious behavioural issues that the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the ability to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail. If you wish to participate, you are welcome to review the candidates' statements and submit your choices on the voting page. For the Election committee, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 13:50, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

Happy Thanksgiving!

	A thanksgiving turkey for you!
	Happy Thanksgiving! White Arabian Filly (Neigh) 16:20, 25 November 2015 (UTC)

I second the Happy Thanksgiving, Mbw! My son-in-law just got back from an elk hunt in Montana near the Canadian border. We had him on FaceTime, and he looked really cold. He said the ground was frozen (at which time his 5 yo started singing "Let It Go"), and sent us pictures of snow on the ground and all over the distant mountains. He now has a better understanding of what I meant when I asked if it was colder'n a well-digger's ass in Montana. 😁 Atsme^📞📧 01:02, 26 November 2015 (UTC)

It's been a wee bit nippy this past week (nights dipping below zero fahrenheit). But the skiiers are happy, they prefer the slopes to the football games. But when it comes to football, this weather provides a strong home field advantage (Go Griz!) Montanabw^(talk) 06:29, 29 November 2015 (UTC)

Thanksgiving

Shout for joy

Adding my sweet side dish and music, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:38, 26 November 2015 (UTC)

And here's another side dish! White Arabian Filly (Neigh) 19:48, 26 November 2015 (UTC)

yum yum!!

And some pie! But seriously, I self-nominated for a Standard Triple Crown and belatedly realized I don't deserve GA credit for Ahmed Zayat, for which you obviously did the heavy lifting. I shouldn't list it on my User page either. I can and will bring another article to GA in the coming months, and get my little prize for it. Thank you for the help, encouragement, and inspiration you've offered me here on Wikipedia this year! Happy Thanksgiving Vesuvius Dogg (talk) 22:21, 26 November 2015 (UTC)

@Vesuvius Dogg: You DO deserve GA credit for Zayat, Picard always needs Riker! And to all, BURP! Thank you! Montanabw^(talk) 06:29, 29 November 2015 (UTC)

Advent

go dream

Did you (all) know that a place to list articles for review is WP:QAIPOST? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:32, 29 November 2015 (UTC)

... where we care for boxes, for beauty and accessibility, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:44, 29 November 2015 (UTC)

Talk:Second Thoughts are Best

I invite you to an ongoing RM. --George Ho (talk) 17:09, 28 November 2015 (UTC)

Abu Farwa

Hi there, this looks like it's probably the full url that you marked as incomplete in the Abu Farwa article.[7] I added it to article, but you should probably check just to make sure. Cmr08 (talk) 10:42, 29 November 2015 (UTC)

Thanks! Montanabw^(talk) 10:44, 29 November 2015 (UTC)

New articles

I have created two new articles, Tennessee Walking Horse National Museum and Calsonic Arena. Pretty short, feel free to expand. The museum thing is apparently unique and has been covered in a lot of Tennessee travel and culture books (many more than I cited-will add more later) and CA is the home not only of the TWHNC, but a lot of rodeos, 4-H shows, dog shows, etc. plus the Great American Mule and Donkey show! It was redlinked in several places. Also, if you think we could use external links to videos to illustrate more of the articles like the one I found for the TWH article (I added it in the EL section), let me know. I watch a lot of YouTube and there is so much crap, but every once in a while there's a good video that actually teaches something. It's my idea that one good video could be externally linked in the EL section of the appropriate article to illustrate stuff that's hard to explain in words, like the gaits of the gaited breeds or dressage tests...etc, etc, especially since we don't have appropriately licensed videos to go in the bodies of most of them. Just some ideas!🐴 White Arabian Filly (Neigh) 23:22, 29 November 2015 (UTC)

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Created OWAA in Missoula, MT

Thought you'd like to give it your blessings, . I am a member of that organization so in order to avoid potential COI accusations would you be so kind as to give it a look-see? Atsme^📞📧 15:47, 2 December 2015 (UTC)

Will peek. Montanabw^(talk) 18:07, 2 December 2015 (UTC)

You're invited! Women in Red World Virtual Edit-a-thon on Women in Religion

You are invited! Join us remotely! World Virtual Edit-a-thon on Women in Religion

Dates: 5 to 15 December 2015 Location: Worldwide/virtual/online event Host: Women in Red (WiR): Did you know that only 15% of the biographies on Wikipedia are about women? WiR focuses on "content gender gap". If you'd like to help contribute articles on women and women's works, we warmly welcome you! Event details: This is a virtual edit-a-thon hosted by WiR. It will allow all those keen to improve Wikipedia's coverage of women in reigion to participate. All levels of Wikipedia editing experience are welcome. RSVP and learn more: →here←--Ipigott (talk) 11:48, 3 December 2015 (UTC)

Taking the bull by the horns

Dear Montanabw,

FYI: Because the two articles Rondo in C minor (Bruckner) and Intermezzo in D minor (Bruckner) are, since their beginning, bogged down in repeated, endless discussions about soundness of its content, discography, infobox, referencing, etc. I have decided to take the bull by the horns. See Talk:Rondo in C minor (Bruckner)#An article, which started on a shaky base and Talk:Intermezzo in D minor (Bruckner)#An article, which started on a shaky base.

Thank you for your repeated, appreciated help, --Réginald alias Meneerke bloem (To reply) 16:19, 5 December 2015 (UTC)

It's that time of year....

Christmas tree worm, (Spirobranchus gigantic)
	Time To Spread Some Happy Holiday Cheer!!
	I decorated a special kind of Christmas tree in the spirit of the season. What's especially nice about the digitized version is that it doesn't need water, and it won't catch fire.
	Wishing you a joyous holiday season... ...and a prosperous New Year!! 🍸🎁 🎉
	--Atsme📞📧 22:24, 10 December 2015 (UTC)	Pure pun-ishment. [8]

Mountain Pleasure Horse

MountainPleasure said they asked an admin about changing username (I assume through email) and were told it's not problematic. They also sent me a message saying the pic on the article looks like a Walker, which it does to me too, and I'm the one who found it on Commons. They are hoping to upload some pics soon, so watch for that... I found some Google book sources and parked them at the article talk as well. White Arabian Filly (Neigh) 23:53, 11 December 2015 (UTC)

They need to change their user name per WP:COI... whoever they asked doesn't understand policy, they can't be named as if they represent the association or imply they are connected to it, it's against the rules. Montanabw^(talk) 23:54, 11 December 2015 (UTC)

I thought just having a name that is the name of a state, animal breed or something didn't make a COI...I thought it was the "Widgets Inc" names that were a problem. They may or may not be connected to the MPHA, I don't know. Not everybody who has/likes/rides a particular breed of horse is involved with the association. When I rode purebred Quarter Horses (owned by somebody else), I never messed with the AQHA. I still have never been a member in any breed association. Even if they are a member, that still isn't actually working for the association to get paid. I don't know. I just don't think the association has a monopoly on the name.

Add: I successfully nominated Wilson's Allen for DYK, so watch the main page! White Arabian Filly (Neigh) 01:15, 12 December 2015 (UTC)

@White Arabian Filly: Yay for a DYK!!! So much fun to see your stuff on the main page, it's a real thrill! As for the Mountain Pleasure one, the problem is that, if they ARE affiliated, then they have a clear COI problem; if they aren't, then they run the risk of others thinking they have a connection. If they were "Mountainhorselover" or something, that would be OK. But if they aren't getting in trouble with the COI cops, I'm not going to chase it; it's just my recommendation; the Gypsy horse article just had a COI blowup that resulted in a bunch of really hurt feelings. Montanabw^(talk) 00:04, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

Unresolved content dispute concerning Elvis-related topics

As you are a very active Wikipedian who assists at the dispute resolution noticeboard, may I ask you for commentaries on Talk:Toilet-related_injuries_and_deaths#Elvis.27s_death_on_the_toilet and Talk:Graceland#650.2C000_visitors from a neutral point of view. See also this discussion and this this arbitration case. Onefortyone (talk) 13:55, 13 December 2015 (UTC)

Elvis? ArbCom? Bad combo. I think they need to just slap DS on that topic... JMO. Montanabw^(talk) 00:07, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

Template:Iberian horses

why are not classified by countries. as in neighbor countries. this is better be classified as Template:Spanish horses, Template:Portuguese horses--Vvven (talk) 22:10, 13 December 2015 (UTC)

@Vvven: Partly because many of these breeds predate the modern nations of Spain and Portugal, some also have ancestry in both nations. Some are landrace breeds dating to antiquity. It makes the most sense to define them by region. Perhaps Justlettersandnumbers, who created the template, can explain further. Montanabw^(talk) 00:06, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

Edit warring at Glyphosate

Your recent editing history at Glyphosate shows that you are currently engaged in an edit war. To resolve the content dispute, please do not revert or change the edits of others when you get reverted. Instead of reverting, please use the article's talk page to work toward making a version that represents consensus among editors. The best practice at this stage is to discuss, not edit-war. See BRD for how this is done. If discussions reach an impasse, you can then post a request for help at a relevant noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, you may wish to request temporary page protection.

Being involved in an edit war can result in your being blocked from editing—especially if you violate the three-revert rule, which states that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring—even if you don't violate the three-revert rule—should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly. Kingofaces43 (talk) 01:50, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

Please keep in mind that you just edit warred content in that had been previously discussed on the article talk page and did not have consensus for inclusion. Such actions, especially when you had been alerted there was discussion and that consensus should be reached before re-adding it, are edit warring even if you have not violated 1RR. I highly suggest reverting your revert as the arbs were clear that edit warring other than 1RR violations would likely result in sanctions at enforcement. I highly suggest undoing your revert at this point and follow consensus building procedure outlined both in this warning and mentioned in edit summaries at the article. Kingofaces43 (talk) 01:50, 14 December 2015 (UTC)