Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Turkey

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Ergun Caner, within the scope of WikiProject Turkey?

Should Ergun Caner's article be under the scope of WikiProject Turkey? At least once he said he was "100 % Turkish", so I think so. OTOH, the "Vikipedi" version needs to be expanded. Please take a look if you speak Turkish. --Filius Rosadis (talk) 22:42, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

Problem about User:Kansas Bear

i really dont care if he served both PKK or ASALA, but, by looking his contributions its not hard to find out about his personality. yes, he is against Turkic civilization (with his every edit). he remove (and replace them) all the facts and valuable sources in the pages related with Turkic civilization. he glorify ASALA, PKK and all the terrorist organisations againts the Turkish civilians and its wealth. enough is enough, now he claim Sari Gelin is an Armenian song! stop him! --Alpha Beta Gaga (talk) 12:21, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

Hatay

Please come and help make Hatay Province and Hatay State a neutral article. The current content seems heavily biased on one side. Thank you very much. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tenolcay (talk • contribs) 19:52, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

Derya Büyükuncu

I don't understand Turkish and the google translation is hard to follow, but is there a controversy about Derya Büyükuncu that should be in his article, as referenced here? Is Sporx.com a reliable source? I have just removed a long, detailed, unreferenced list of his (mainly junior) swimming results from the article, but if he is aiming to compete at his 6th Olympic Games it would be a remarkable achievement. The-Pope (talk) 08:14, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

Ancient Near East archaeological sites reorganization (Suggestion)

Please see this discussion here. Yazan (talk) 19:05, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

GAR Akkadian Empire

An article that you have been involved in editing, Akkadian Empire has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments good article reassessment page . If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status will be removed from the article. -- Zoeperkoe (talk) 22:47, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

AfD for Le Pietre (yacht)

The Le Pietre (yacht) article has been nominated for deletion. Improving this article with the references given, or the related article, Gulet would be much easier with a knowledge of Turkish. Djembayz (talk) 14:23, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

Unsatisfactory ranking

According to Wikipedia:Database reports/WikiProject watchers, a list of projects by the no. of watchers, neither Turkey Project nor Ottoman Empire Project is in the displayed top 172 project lists. According to Wikipedia:Database reports/WikiProjects by changes, a list of top 2194 projects by the no.of edits, Project Turkey ranks 303. and Project Ottoman Empire ranks 755. place. I think these two projects deserve better rankings. Nedim Ardoğa (talk) 13:49, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

The Agreement on Strategic Partnership and Mutual Support

Hello to My Turkish brothers, can anybody help me to develop this article on The Agreement on Strategic Partnership and Mutual Support.--NovaSkola 21:00, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Pentagram (Mezarkabul album)

The article Pentagram (Mezarkabul album) has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

No indication of meeting WP:NALBUMS, a couple of minor mentions in published (gBooks) works found. No references available in the Turkish article

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. The speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. JeepdaySock (AKA, Jeepday) 15:44, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

Istanbul turkish being the standard

user http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Nipsonanomhmata has removed the reference to Istanbul turkish being the standard in Cypriot Turkish. I reverted him and he is asking for a reference. Wikipedia turkish language article also states the same without providing a reference. Now this is possibly a very basic thing for you and you will find it rather ridiculous to have to provide a reference but if someone is aware of a reference in English or can be bothered to translate something from turkish it will be really great. Cheers Mavros (talk)

I don't know why the name İstanbul has been removed. But in this age of telecommunications, İstanbul Turkish is not as distinct as it was used to be. After all, everybody watch the same TV programs and listen to the same newsreel and there is too little dialect difference to distinguish İstanbul Turkish. Nedim Ardoğa (talk) 15:21, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

Help on page: Ottoman Weapons

Hello I would like to request help on the above page. Although there are thousands of weapons the article has been left very shallow. Recently I have been trying to improve the page and I have doubled the amount of information on it. However I still need help. If you can help me out I will be very happy. Thank you, regards, Tugrul Irmak.Tugrulirmak (talk) 10:34, 1 May 2011 (UTC)

Need footnotes for Matrak (Turkish lawn-game)

There's a stub article for a Turkish lawn game, matrak, but it has not footnotes. A look at GoogleBooks with keywords "matrak game -amtrak" appear to show plenty of refs. I'd offer to do it, but I really don't quite grasp this game. If anyone can help out, that'd be great; note that you can automatically format gBooks citations by plugging the URLs into http://reftag.appspot.com . MatthewVanitas (talk) 04:54, 6 May 2011 (UTC)

Article for deletion Mavi Yolculuk

Bosses ! There is an attempt being made towards a deletion of your world brandname Mavi Yolculuk (Blue Cruise). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Blue_Cruise Pembeana (talk) 05:32, 14 May 2011 (UTC)

fizy back online in Turkey?

I just edited the article about the Turkish music streaming service fizy. It says that the site was banned in Turkey but that access was later restored. All articles talking about this are dated 1 April 2011. Is is possibly an April Fool's joke? Has access really been restored in Turkey? Thanks, AxelBoldt (talk) 13:54, 27 May 2011 (UTC)

RfC notification

A new discussion on wording changes to the current guideline to clarify the use of diacritics for subjects whose native names contain them has been initiated. It can be found at Wikipedia:Naming conventions (use English)/Diacritics RfC Ohconfucius ^¡digame! 09:00, 4 July 2011 (UTC)

Input requested regarding article title

I just closed a move discussion at Talk:Tzachas#Requested move, and then an editor objected to the move. Before doing anything further with the page, I'd like to see input from some more editors, so we can be certain that we're getting the correct title. If anyone here can register an opinion there, it would be helpful. Cheers. -GTBacchus^(talk) 17:32, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

Contested page move

There's a contested page move at Talk:Trebizond Vilayet#Requested move that could use input from more editors. If anyone reading this page wishes to register an opinion there, it would be very helpful. Thanks in advance. -GTBacchus^(talk) 17:44, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

Ercan Gündoğan

This article was created recently. I'm not familiar with this academic author, but I see he gets lots of hits in the Google News archive.[1] I think the results are in Turkish? So perhaps somebody here would be interested in taking a look.

I don't read Turkish or I would do it myself. I used Google machine translation on a couple articles, but I know machine translations can be very odd. [2] seems to say Gündoğan was fired after some kind of teacher's strike? Cloveapple (talk) 06:34, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

Greek-Turkish alternative names

When do you have time, could you look at Talk:Lesbos#Turkish alternative name, Talk:Foça#Greek alternative name, Talk:Fethiye#Greek alternative name, Talk:Side#Greek alternative name, Talk:Antalya#Greek alternative name.

Personally, I don't oppose to use alternative names in the lead sentence. I only oppose double standards. For example Midilli, Sakiz　are under the same situation. ethnocentric approach (Greek, Turkish, Kurdish, Persian etc.) is very harmful for neutral encyclopedia. Takabeg (talk) 13:02, 27 August 2011 (UTC)

Meskhetian Turks

Hi everyone. Is Armenian alternative name necessary for the article Meskhetian Turks ? When you have time, could you visit Talk:Meskhetian Turks#Armenian alternative name ? Thank you. Takabeg (talk) 12:18, 1 September 2011 (UTC)

• No, Armenians have nothing to do with either Meskheti or Meskhetian Turks other than being neighbour to Georgia. They are not politically or culturally related to Meskhetians and I don't think we need an Armenian alternative name for the article. Nedim Ardoğa (talk) 23:00, 1 September 2011 (UTC)

Karasid Express ?

Have you ever heard the name Karasid Express. I think it must be "Karesi Express" because it's a proper noun. Takabeg (talk) 00:27, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

Turgut

Hi, everyone. When you have time, could you control this attempt (Turgut Reis) ? Thank you. Takabeg (talk) 01:38, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

Armenian Genocide

Hi, everyone. A historical document was used incorrectly in the article Armenian Genocide. See Talk:Armenian Genocide#Personal explanation. Thank you. Takabeg (talk) 04:53, 11 September 2011 (UTC)

Aziz Nesin etc.

A source said his surname implies a Tatar background. But I've never heard that Aziz Nesin didn't adopt Crimean Tatarness. Do we have to consider him a Crimean Tatar ? This problem is similar to the problem on "Who is Kurd ?". As we know, İsmet İnönü, Bülent Ecevit etc. were Kurdish descent, but nobody (except extremists) considers them as Kurdish people. When you have time, could you see Talk:Crimean Tatars#Aziz Nesin etc., Talk:Aziz Nesin. Thank you. Takabeg (talk) 14:14, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

• Classifying people according to their genetic background is racism. National background depends on the sense of belonging and mother tongue. Nedim Ardoğa (talk) 13:16, 22 September 2011 (UTC)

If you examine the source listed closely, the "surname implies" is directed at various other public figures (for example Fahrettin Cureklibatur etc.) and not Aziz Nesin, however what it clearly stated is him belonging to the Crimean Tatar community in Turkey. Therefore Takabeg seems to misunderstand the source, and yet insists on his misinterpreted version. And no, maybe the laws in Turkey allow for the second part of the above statement to be true, everywhere else people are classified based on heritage. The Night and the Silent Water (talk) 12:16, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

Crimean Tatars

A POV pushing user continue to edit by his POV (without source) and de-neutralizes the article. Thank you. Takabeg (talk) 14:40, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

Experienced editors with specialist regional knowledge urgently wanted

The Arbitration Committee is seeking to appoint additional people to the CheckUser and Oversight teams, in particular people with specialist knowledge.

Because of increasing activity in the South Asian, Southeast Asian, or Middle Eastern regions, CheckUser applications are particularly sought from people who not only meet our general requirements but also are familiar with the ISPs and typical editing patterns of any of these regions.

Successful candidates are likely to be regularly available and already familiar with local and global processes, policies, and guidelines especially those concerning CheckUser and Oversight. CheckUser candidates are expected to be technically proficient, and previous experience with OTRS is beneficial for Oversight candidates. All candidates must at least 18 years of age; have attained legal majority in their jurisdiction of residence; and be willing to identify to the Wikimedia Foundation prior to receiving permissions. If you think you may be suitably qualified, please see the appointments page for further information. The application period is scheduled to close 18 September 2011.  Roger Davies ^talk 15:49, 16 September 2011 (UTC)

Armenian Highland

When you have time, could you see Talk:Armenian Highland#Original research ? ? Thank you. Takabeg (talk) 03:27, 17 September 2011 (UTC)

Bulgaria

A very obvious anti-Ottoman POV here: [3] You may want to contribute to that article for a correction. Filanca (talk) 10:10, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

For example ? Takabeg (talk) 00:36, 26 September 2011 (UTC)

Not so obvious then? From the start, the section heading: "Ottoman rule and national awakening". This is very typical of a nationalist approach to Ottoman history, especially among Balkan states: Ottoman rule was just a mistake so that period of history should be skipped as fast as possible, maybe only to be examined as how that particular nation could get out of it, not in itself, which was, of course not at all interesting. Read the section and you will see it is imbibed with nationalism. Filanca (talk) 20:19, 29 September 2011 (UTC)

Multi-move discussion

Readers here may be interested in contributing to a proposal regarding the renaming of 11 Ottoman Eyalet articles. See Talk:Mosul Eyalet#Multi-move. Cheers. -GTBacchus^(talk) 13:14, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

Forged controrsy ?

The Turkish alternative name of Van Cat (which is not same as Turkish Van) isVan Kedisi. Even if the term Türk Van Kedisi is used in some website (unreliable sources), there is no evidence that the Turkish authority named or add the word Türk. Official and semi-official institution of Turkey such as Ministry of Culture of the Republic of Turkey, TRT use the term "Van Kedisi" (Van Cat).

• "Türk Van Kedisi" in google news - 0 results.
• "Türk Van Kedisi" in google books - 0 results.

As long as I understand, the article Van Cat naming controversy consists of irrelevant information, groundless claims, articles written by authors who misunderstood. When do you have time, could you visit Talk:Van Cat naming controversy‎ ? Thank you. Takabeg (talk) 00:24, 26 September 2011 (UTC)

Masri145's edit

If you have time, could you see Talk:North Cyprus#"Turkish Cypriot pseudo state" ? Takabeg (talk) 10:22, 28 September 2011 (UTC)

Turkish nationality and ethnicity

If you have time, could you see Talk:Turkish diaspora ? Takabeg (talk) 15:51, 28 September 2011 (UTC)

Edit by Sockpuppet (User:Ali55te)

What do you think on Talk:Istanbul Pogrom#Edit by Sockpuppet (User:Ali55te) ?

see also

• Talk:Greek genocide#Edit by Sockpuppet (User:Ali55te)
• Talk:Armenian Genocide#Edit by Sockpuppet (User:Ali55te)
• Talk:Armenian Cathedral of the Holy Cross#Edit by Sockpuppet (User:Ali55te)

etc.. Takabeg (talk) 00:35, 1 October 2011 (UTC)

Üçe üç isteriz

Do you have any sources about Talk:Deniz Gezmiş#Demirel ? Takabeg (talk) 07:34, 1 October 2011 (UTC)

Şemdin Sakık

When you have time, could you read Talk:Turkey – Kurdistan Workers' Party conflict#Şemdin Sakık ? Thank you. Takabeg (talk) 10:16, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

Özsoy or Uzsoy

When you have time, coul you read Talk:Münip Özsoy#Özsoy or Uzsoy ? Takabeg (talk) 05:06, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

Cadde: Avenue or Street?

See this requested move Abdi İpekçi Street → Abdi İpekçi Avenue, which thus far has had little input.  --Lambiam 16:08, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

Argeşo or Yasan ?

Who was the minister of Nafia (Public Works) in 1920-1921 ? The first minister was Ismail Fazil Pasha, but who was second ?

• According to basbakanlik.gov.tr, Ömer Lütfi Argeşo.
• According to Türk Parlamento Tarihi (TBMM Vakfı), Ömer Lütfi Yasan, and there is no mention of the minister of Nafia (Public Works) in the section about Ömer Lütfi Argeşo in same book.

Takabeg (talk) 03:30, 13 October 2011 (UTC)

Quite a few sources just name "Ömer Lütfi Bey", and it is easy to see how two individuals with the same name and such similar backgrounds can get confused. This source even manages to identify the two, referring to the chimera "Ömer Lütfi Argeşo (Yasan)"! Almost all sources available online that make the distinction appear to agree on Argeşo, though, and this one, Çağdaş Türkiye (1987), even gives specific dates for his (Argeşo's) vekillik: "27.12.1920–24.1.1921, 24.1.1921, [sic] 24.1.1921–16.5.1921, 19.5.1921–17.11.1921". (The search term was the only way I saw to make Google's "snippet view" reveal the first part of this text, and this one gives the missing bit.) So I'd bet on Ömer Lütfi Argeşo. This source (Birinci Meclis'te muhalefet: İkinci Grup, 1994), however, agrees with Türk Parlamento Tarihi.  --Lambiam 10:29, 13 October 2011 (UTC)

FAR

I have nominated Turkey for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Dana boomer (talk) 13:54, 23 October 2011 (UTC)

Town and villages

There are about 50000 populated places in Turkey. Province centers and most of district centers have pages in Wikipedia (some are one sentence stubs) But there are very few pages for towns (belde) and villages. I call every Turkish Wikipedian to create articles about these smaller settlements. Nedim Ardoğa (talk) 14:37, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

The Article on Said Nursi

I am working on this article and hope to have assistance or contributions by suggestion to improve the biography of this prominent 20th century Muslim scholar who wrote 6000 page book collection. His books translated into 45 different languages nad he has millions of followers in Turkey and worldwide.Thank you.rinduzahid^(talk) 05:02, 6 November 2011 (UTC)

Northern Cyprus — ongoing quest for neutral lead section

Please see Talk:Northern Cyprus#Neutral Lead. There has been an ongoing, not very successful effort to come up with neutral language for the lead section of this article. Basically, what some people feel is neutral, other people insist is POV. Comments? — Richwales (talk) 15:31, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

WikiWomen's History Month

Hi everyone. March is Women's History Month and I'm hoping a few folks here at WP:Turkey will have interest in putting on events (on and off wiki) related to women's roles in Turkey's history, society and culture. We've created an event page on English Wikipedia (please translate!) and I hope you'll find the inspiration to participate. These events can take place off wiki, like edit-a-thons, or on wiki, such as themes and translations. Please visit the page here: WikiWomen's History Month. Thanks for your consideration and I look forward to seeing events take place! SarahStierch (talk) 21:48, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

Turks in Europe

User:AbdolRezaCCIH keeps on destroying my valid edits in the Turks in Europe article, will someone please help? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.154.189.172 (talk) 07:24, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

Antakya Archaeological Museum

another editor and I are having some difficulty ascertaining what to call this article in English due to some confusion about the museum's name. Would someone with some familiarity with Turkish and or naming conventions mind dropping by? Thanks StarM 23:12, 11 March 2012 (UTC)

Vedat Akman

Hi, the above article is currently at AfD (and being vehemently defended by a slate of SPAs). It seems clear there has been lots of COI type editing and contributions to the debate and article. However, that is not what I am soliciting people here about. There is a page on the website of the subject showing some coverage in the media. Perhaps someone from this project, with good knowledge of WP's policies and guidelines) could have a look at this and see whether there is anything in there that would establish notability? Even though I have proposed this article for deletion, I don't want to see it deleted if we have overlooked something. Thanks! --Guillaume2303 (talk) 12:57, 18 April 2012 (UTC)

Ladies' navels

Aka kadın göbeği. We need an image. Please pop down to the bakery, buy some, take a photo, then eat them. Thanks. :) Anna Frodesiak (talk) 03:58, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

Istanbul up for peer review

The Istanbul article is up for a peer review at Wikipedia:Peer review/Istanbul/archive1 and I thought you all might be interested in providing some feedback. Feel free to do so when you get a chance. -- tariqabjotu 05:18, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

Extensive work needed on "regions" of Turkey

As you know, in "Districts of Turkey" template , the provinces of Turkey are distributed to seven geographically defined regions of Turkey. This is technically wrong, as the borders of those regions do not overlap with that of provinces: See this map showing the discrepancies in borders. This is addressed in the article, "List of regions of Turkey", claiming provinces are to be considered in the region where most of their territory are located. Although it's with good faith, this solution is imperfect.

So here's my suggestion:

1. Introduce accurate content to the geographically-defined regions article. The article in Turkish Wikipedia, while it seems very basic, is on the right tract: Türkiye'nin coğrafi bölgeleri.

2. If there is need to have a larger division than provinces, use "NUTS of Turkey" instead. The Turkish Statistical Institute does that. Again, the article in Turkish Wikipedia seems solid: Türkiye'nin İBBS'si.

I'm very eagerly awaiting response. Regards. --Mttll (talk) 02:20, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

About half of Muğla Province is in Mediterranean and the other half is in Aegean Region. Most of Bilecik Province is in the Central Anatolia, but the capital of the province is in Marmara Province. The provinces of Kahramanmaraş, Şırnak, Erzurum, Konya and some others are problematic in this respect. For the last 8 months or so, I've concentrated on creating articles about towns (belde) of Turkey and I've found a solution to this problem. I categorize both for the Province and the Geographical region. For the template notes can be used for districts which are not in the same geographical region of the province capital. (Like "Note:Köyceğiz is in Mediterranean Region".)Nedim Ardoğa (talk) 05:58, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

So what do you think of Nomenclature of Territorial Units for Statistics of Turkey, which completely overlap with the provincial borders? --Mttll (talk) 00:38, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

I'm afraid I haven't seen your point. Are you proposing to use nuts instead of geographical regions ? Well as far as I can see nuts are used for statistics and don't really convey any information. Geographical regions on the other hand are useful to summerize the main geographical features and climate. So I think geographical regions should be kept in the template. Nedim Ardoğa (talk) 08:21, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

What information are you seeing in this article, or in this template for that matter? Geographical regions of Turkey are being used outside their purpose (statistical) and in a technically inaccurate way at that. --Mttll (talk) 22:04, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

On 2008 July 8, User:Univer had added the following sentence: "Provinces, by custom, are accepted to be located in the regions where most of their territory remains." So the there is nothing wrong with the list. Nedim Ardoğa (talk) 13:30, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

I had already addressed that in my first post in this section. The wrong thing is the subdivisions of seven geographical regions of Turkey are not provinces, but subregions that are based on river basins, mountains etc.; and that there is a way after all, an official one at that, to group Turkish provinces that completely overlap with the official borders. --Mttll (talk) 13:55, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

Perth requested-move notification

A requested move survey was started at Talk:Perth_(disambiguation)#Requested_move, which proposes to move:

• Perth → Perth, Western Australia
• Perth, Scotland → Perth, Perthshire
• Perth (disambiguation) → Perth

Background: There was a previous requested-move survey which ran from late May to mid June. There was a great deal of controversy surrounding the closure and subsequent events, which involved a number of reverts and re-reverts which are the subject of an ongoing arbitration case. There was a move review process, which was closed with a finding that the original requested-move closure was endorsed; however, the move review process is relatively new and untried. — P.T. Aufrette (talk) 03:16, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

Origin of Döner Kebab

Some say Germany. Please see Talk:List_of_sandwiches#Döner Kebab as German. Many thanks. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 23:04, 3 July 2012 (UTC)

Well this question needs the attention of a gastronomic history expert. But as far as I know Döner kebap is one of the popular and traditional dishes in Turkey (please see Döner kebap). Besides, the adjective döner means "rotating" in Turkish. The claim (German origin) definetely needs a strong evidence and there is none in the article reflist. Nedim Ardoğa (talk) 07:29, 4 July 2012 (UTC)

Fair enough. Many thanks for the thoughtful reply. It's appreciated. :) Anna Frodesiak (talk) 08:59, 4 July 2012 (UTC)

Istanbul at FAC

One of your WikiProject's top-importance articles, Istanbul, has recently been nominated for featured status. Feel free to participate in the discussion regarding its suitability at Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Istanbul/archive1. -- tariqabjotu 21:51, 7 July 2012 (UTC)

Map of geographical regions of Turkey

I want to replace this incorrect image with this. Can someone please recolor and caption it? --Mttll (talk) 08:20, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

"Turks", should it be a disambiguation of "Turk" or should it redirect to the "Turkish people"?

Hi everyone, I'd like to bring your attention to the recent debate at Talk:Turks. "Turks" has been a redirect to "Turkish people" but there is a minor edit war/debate as to whether it should direct there or redirect to the "Turk" disambiguation instead. I for one believe that "Turks" should redirect to the "Turkish people" and that the disambiguation of "Turk" is sufficent. My main reason for this is that most offical censuses, including that of Turkic nations, refer to the Turkish people as "Turks" within their data. Turco85 (Talk) 17:26, 16 July 2012 (UTC)

Rumi from a neutral point of view

Hello, I have a recommendation about the article Rumi.

Please read all the information, I wrote on Talk, and tell whether you agree or disagree.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Rumi#Let.27s_Remove_POV_with_a_Neutral_Point_of_View

You know the ethnicity of Rumi is unknown and debated. I hope you contribute to this matter. Alternatively, from a neutral point of view, I recommend to change the (POV) sentence to a (NPOV) sentence:

"a 13th-century Persian Muslim poet, jurist, theologian, and Sufi mystic."

to "a 13th-century Muslim poet, jurist, theologian, and Sufi mystic of Persian literature. 81.213.117.125 (talk) 21:38, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

Archiving

Consider it. :) Anna Frodesiak (talk) 15:30, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

Done Nedim Ardoğa (talk) 20:20, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

Casualties of the Turkish Armed Forces

Recently, there has been some attempts in the article, Kurdish-Turkish conflict, that ranged from presenting the fully verifiable casualty reports of the TAF as mere opinions to dismissing them based on the premise that Turkey is a dictatorship and to full fledged vandalism of removing them entirely in the infobox. Please take a look at it. --Mttll (talk) 23:23, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

Tenedos or Bozcaada

There is a heated discussion on the name of Bozcaada. Despite several move requests (April and August 2011, July 2012 etc.) presently it is still Tenedos. Please see Talk:Tenedos. Nedim Ardoğa (talk) 16:05, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

Ataturk images

Several Ataturk images have been listed for deletion. See Category:All Wikipedia files with unknown source -- 76.65.128.252 (talk) 13:16, 26 August 2012 (UTC)

image:OF(D) Asteğmen TA.jpeg

File:OF(D) Asteğmen TA.jpeg has been nominated for immediate deletion as unsourced -- 76.65.128.252 (talk) 14:24, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

Category move discussion

Recently a number of categories, including one related to this project, were moved without any discussion. The category related to this project is Category:Turkish television navigational boxes, which was moved to Category:Turkey television navigational boxes. The moves have been opposed and a new discussion is in progress at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2012 September 17#Television navigational boxes. --AussieLegend (talk) 17:38, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

October 2012 Syrian–Turkish border clash

I didn't see it covered elsewhere, so I started it. I tried to make it look like December 2011 Syrian–Turkish border clash. Should it be expanded or merged, or deleted or what? Thanks, Anna Frodesiak (talk) 11:23, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

I also post this at Project Syria, so please comment at article talk instead of here. Thanks, Anna Frodesiak (talk) 11:24, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

Yakuts Americans

The Yakuts from the Sakha (Yakutia) Republic, east Russia, could be considered people from "Middle East" (Yakuts are not Russian Europeans because they are of the east of Russia, in Asia)?. I believe the Yakut American should be put in some template related with this group for that they are more easy localized in the articles of ethic groups of United States and, because they are culturally Turkish, I believe more appropriate to include in the template "American Middle East". I would wanted to get their views on the incorporation of the American ethnic group to that template.- --Isinbill (talk) 10:28, 15 October 2012 (UTC)

American Middle East for Sakha people ? No, Sakha people are from Sakha Republic which is located at about 5000 km distance to Middle east. They have nothing to do with Middle east.Nedim Ardoğa (talk) 12:16, 15 October 2012 (UTC)

and, however, they are culturally Turkish and, if I not included in that template, where I include? I see no other ethnic group that has a relationship with them. --Isinbill (talk) 00:22, 17 October 2012 (UTC)

Middle east refers to a loosely defined geographic region. For ethnicity the article already has a Template:Turkic states. But you can also add Template:Turkic topics. Nedim Ardoğa (talk) 06:45, 17 October 2012 (UTC)

Abdyl Frasheri.JPG

image:Abdyl Frasheri.JPG has been nominated for deletion -- 65.92.181.190 (talk) 08:16, 22 October 2012 (UTC)

Byzantine–Seljuq Wars GAR

The article on the Byzantine–Seljuq Wars is currently undergoing a Good Article Reassessment because it does not fulfil the criteria for a Good Article. Any interested project members are invited to participate with a view to improving the article and keeping its Good Article status. Constantine ✍ 08:37, 27 October 2012 (UTC)

Separating town articles and district articles

Recently, in an effort to improve and broaden the coverage of the geographical and administrative features of Şebinkarahisar District, I separated the article about the town Şebinkarahisar, from the article about the district Şebinkarahisar District. This process of separating towns from their larger eponymous districts (communes, municipalities, etc.) has taken place in the Wikipedia in other countries. But, apparently, there is not consensus that such separation is a good idea, see Talk:Şebinkarahisar District#Merge. So, I thought that I'd bring the discussion here for everyone's input. --Bejnar (talk) 18:44, 28 October 2012 (UTC)

This is not a process that need be done all-at-once, it should be done on an article by article basis. Also, it is not necessarily needed in all cases, but is more appropriate for rural districts where there can be large differences between the town and the district. In the case of city districts there is often no difference, with the boundaries and administration being the same. --Bejnar (talk) 18:47, 28 October 2012 (UTC)

Well almost all Turkish districts have articles (though some only stub) in WP. These articles generally cover the district as well as the district center with the same name. Splitting the articles is certainly possible. But creating about 1000 new articles requires a huge amount of work. Expanding the stubs instead of creating new articles may be a better alternative. Nedim Ardoğa (talk) 05:50, 29 October 2012 (UTC)

2012 FIA Prize Giving Gala

Hello, folks! Will anyone attend the 2012 FIA Prize Giving Gala? It could be a great opportunity to take pictures and videos of auto racing people. Thanks! --NaBUru38 (talk) 15:16, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

Category move discussion

It has been suggested to change the name of some categories from "Turkey" to "Ottoman Empire" here. There are lots of categories affected. I am notifying this group as I see that proposers have neglected to inform editors here before. Ephebi (talk) 22:04, 16 December 2012 (UTC)

Talk:İstiklal Marşı

Is there a guideline on spelling change? In ictu oculi (talk) 14:33, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

Mythology of the Turkic and Mongolian peoples

FYI Mythology of the Turkic and Mongolian peoples has been proposed to be split, see talk:Mythology of the Turkic and Mongolian peoples -- 70.24.248.246 (talk) 22:34, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

Turkish language FAR

I have nominated Turkish language for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Daniel Case (talk) 21:03, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

Istanbul or İstanbul

Whenever I write İstanbul, somebody immediatelly changes it to Istanbul remarking that the capital dotted İ is not used in English. İstanbul (and İzmir for that matter) is a proper noun and I don't think that the proper nouns are translateble. If the keyboard permits (which is case of Turkish editors) the letter İ should not be changed to I in the English texts. Please check the following articles. Bâlea Lake, Nové Zámky, Hans Christian Ørsted, Jönköping, Évora District and uncountable other examples. Do we have Ø, É etc in English ? Then why do we have to change the name of İstanbul just because English alphabet lacks İ? Nedim Ardoğa (talk) 16:35, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

They do not change the letter due to the lack of an "İ" in the English alphabet. They change it because the English name of "İstanbul" is "Istanbul" just as Turkish name of "London" is "Londra". Istanbul is the correct form whenever you write in English. Filanca (talk) 20:33, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

It's like Vienna vs Wien or Florence vs Firenze. It's simply based on a long history of tradition. For that matter, İstanbul is rendered hu:Isztambul and Vienna is hu:Bécs in Hungarian for the same historical/traditional reasons. Teemeah ^{편지 (letter)} 13:45, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

Northern Cypriot passport

Does such a document exist distinct from the regular Turkish passport, and if so, how is it different? Anyone got an cover image for the article? I am having trouble finding any sources. RashersTierney (talk) 04:08, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

Yes, TRNC has a passport other than Turkish passport. See [4] Nedim Ardoğa (talk) 08:25, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for reply. Would still like for the article to be substantially expanded from its current humble situation, if anyone is in a position to help out. A photo of the cover would be particularly welcome. RashersTierney (talk) 09:22, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

Help with an article?

Hi! I need a little help because I'm running into a language barrier with an article. I'm editing the article for the film Ölü Bölgeden Fısıltılar and I've done a decent job with the sources I could find using Google Translate. The big issue is that the translation programs have obvious limitations. There is another editor (User:Gulgun G) also working on the page, but English is not his first language and so there's a language barrier there as well. (I think he speaks Turkish, but I'm not 100% certain.) Can anyone help out? I know that this technically falls more under the banner of the film wikiproject than the Turkey WP, but I thought that I would be more likely to find someone that could better understand the sources in the article and help flesh out the article more.Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡) 11:32, 28 January 2013 (UTC)

Turkish-speaking user needed

At Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#EMr_KnG there is a discussion about issues with an apparently Turkish user whose command of English appears limited. It has been suggested that a Turkish speaker may be able to better explain the problems to them and that this project would be a good location to locate one. Thanks, Thryduulf (talk) 18:57, 31 January 2013 (UTC)

Raufbey.jpg

image:Raufbey.jpg has been nominated for speedy deletion -- 65.92.180.137 (talk) 23:46, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

Coşkun Yılmaz

is a BLPProd. Can you provide help in sourcing? Determining notability? Dlohcierekim 03:40, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

Template:Largest cities in Turkey

I have a dispute with a colleague about Template:Largest cities in Turkey. Main problem is that Mr. Maurice is adding the population numbers for provinces and not for the cities. He uses Turkish Statistical Institute Address-based calculation from December, 2012. as source, while I use TurkStat. Address-based calculation from December, 2012. By now, it gets rather annoying and except a long talkpage, I see no progress at all. So I need extra people to look in it to see who is giving the right population numbers.

A second, minor, issue is a disagreement about the use of regions (his choice) and provinces (the long standing consensus). What is best here? The Banner talk 00:57, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

Replied in the TP. Nedim Ardoğa (talk) 03:24, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

FA Suleiman the Magnificent in need of care to maintain its status

The editor who initially shepherded Suleiman the Magnificent to FA status has been inactive for many years and the quality of the article has begun to degrade. Any experts who can come in and buff the article up to snuff again would be appreciated. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 03:23, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

Minorities in Greece

Hello. I am asking opinions of users in the talk page of Minorities of Greece for whether to include the problems of the muslim minority living in Athens or not. Your comments are welcome. Filanca (talk) 20:05, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

Hi, there are some possible POV problems with the article Siege of Van and I thought you might be interested

I attempted to raise this issue at talk page (Talk:Siege of Van#Why is this not mentioned?) almost 1 year ago, but it didn't quite work, and the article remains in largely unchanged form. Apparently this is a portal for the Ottoman Empire, so I thought I might let you know and maybe you would want to do something about it. --Niemti (talk) 18:55, 11 March 2013 (UTC)

File:Lake Van.jpg

File:Lake Van.jpg has been nominated for deletion -- 65.92.180.137 (talk) 05:05, 20 March 2013 (UTC)

Fenerbahce 2012-13 season

In the Season Overview section of the article it seems that whover has contributed to the section isn't very neutral in the way that they write, and they need to realise that they dont have to link to the football club's article every time they mention them, and the same with important people and places, I'm going to put a general message on the talk page but if anyone wants to assist in editing it to make it friendly to someone not as familiar with the subject matter that would be great, because i think it may take some timeHesky10 (talk) 20:49, 25 April 2013 (UTC)!

Serbs in Turkey

In an article about Serbs there is a source [5] that says that the Istanbul lives 3.000.000 Serbs, across the Turkey 9,000,000 Serbs. Can someone confirm this information. More Serbs living in Turkey than in Serbia? --Sokac121 (talk) 21:44, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

I found this. Not sure how many of them were Serbian or what their numbers are today:

During the period from 1821 to 1922 alone, Justin McCarthy estimates that the ethnic cleansing of Ottoman Muslims led to the death of several million individuals and the expulsion of a similar number.

[6] Cavann (talk) 20:20, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

I don't have a source on Serbs living in Turkey. However, there are sources of non Muslim minority groups in Turkey and Serbs are not listed separately in those lists. According to the Treaty of Lausanne, there were only three notable non Muslim groups in Turkey in 1920s; Greeks, Jews and Armenians. It is hard to believe that millions of Serbs living in Turkey go unnoticed in the conference in which entente powers were present. Besides how can we explain the migration of millions of Serbs to a Muslim city ? Frankly speaking, I don't believe it. Nedim Ardoğa (talk) 15:26, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

The source is very bad and nationalist. That in Turkey, 50,000 Serbs live they would have been Muslims because: Religion in Turkey (Christian - 0.13% (60% Armenian Orthodox, 20% Syrian Orthodox, 10% Protestant, 8% Chaldean Catholic, 2% Greek Orthodox) no Serb Orthodox. I removed that information in the article about Serbs [7] People from the Balkans who came to Turkey are assimilated and have no reliable information about it. They identify themselves as Turks . If in Turkey has 350,000 Serbs, so many there are Turks in Serbia. How many millions of Turks in the Balkans has a :) --Sokac121 (talk) 10:14, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

Thanks to user Sokac121 for giving me a heads up on the thread. As I previously commented on the Serbs talk page, user Правичност's news magazine "source" which speaks of a staggering number of 9 million Serbs in Turkey is among the worst nationalist POV I've come across in ex-Yugoslav online magazines lately. It basically claims the Slavic Muslims in Turkey to be of a "forgotten" and "suppressed" Serb ancestry, when in fact a vast majority of Slavic Muslims in Turkey descend from Bosnian Muslims (Bosniaks), and Pomaks, which emigrated following the collapse of the Ottoman empire. As a matter of fact, the National Security Council of Turkey (Milli Güvenlik Kurulu) estimates as many as 2,000,000 Turkish citizens having Bosniak (Boşnaklar) ancestry. Naturally however, in Serb nationalist circuits Bosniaks are really only "converted Serbs" without their own identity or history, and Bosnia has really only always been "Serbian". There is consequently not a shred of credibility in the source which draws on the private, nationalist, reflections made by the president of a minor Belgrade-based non-accredited organization, who even for a moment slips away to talk about the "Catholic Serbs" in Croatia (i.e. Croats). Eagerly pushing such nasty nationalist sources on wikipedia without discretion should see user Правичност subjected to some serious review. Praxis Icosahedron ϡ (TALK) 12:45, 5 May 2013 (UTC)

There were Bosnians fleeing the wars during 90's, Balkan Muslims fleeing from the Balkan wars in 19th-20th centuries (don't think Milli Güvenlik Kurulu took this into account since it is so old). Before then there were population transfers in Ottoman Empire [8]. But I don't think a number, such as 9 million, can be established. Cavann (talk) 19:25, 6 May 2013 (UTC)

Let's make one point clear. Are we referring to Bosnians or Serbs ? I am not in the position to decide on the ethnical background of Serbs and Bosnians. But when the name Serb is mentioned most people take as Serbs of Serbia and not Bosnia and Herzegovina. In the past, being Muslim some Bosnians migrated to Turkey (but not in millions). However, I don't think Serbs (other than devshirme) ever though of settling in Turkey. Nedim Ardoğa (talk) 07:06, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

Whoa whoa, stirring up confusion here. What I ment to clarify is that the source which speaks of "9 million Serbs in Turkey" is not a credible one and based on POV nationalist views by the interviewee that Bosniaks (and Slavic Muslims) are really only converted Serbs. Compare such inflammatory rhetoric with a hypothetical article claiming Kurds as "Mountain Turks": it deserves little attention. Thus, what the article ("source") suggests is not that millions of Serbs (Orthodox Christians) live in Turkey today, but that the millions of Slavic Muslims in Turkey which are of, partial or full, Bosniak ancestry are in fact "really" Serbs, and consequently the whole Bosniak nation "really" Serb. Needless to say, it qualifies as severe nationalist jargon. The Milli Güvenlik Kurulu estimates 2,000,000 Bosniaks in Turkey, the majority of which trace their origin to migrations from the Bosnia Eyalet in the 19th and early 20th century: this is not to say that millions of Bosniaks emigrated in those times, rather their community in Turkey has expanded through natural growth since then. Praxis Icosahedron ϡ (TALK) 12:32, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

Let's not forget emigrations from Montenegro to Turkey due to the genocides against the Bosniak population there largely until World War II, namely Kolašin, Šehovići, Pljevlja, etc... I should probably point out that there are a lot of Bosniaks in Turkey originally from Sandžak, esp. Novi Pazar but that fun fact is more-or-less WP:OR. --Prevalis (talk) 23:07, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

Sandžak, and the eponymous Sanjak of Novi Pazar, was a region within the Eyalet of Bosnia until 1864. Praxis Icosahedron ϡ (TALK) 23:38, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

I think that the Bosniacs in Turkey assimilated. Number of 2,000,000 million is too high. We must not forget that from the Balkans to Turkey came people who have been Orthodox and Catholics and become Muslims. Not all from the Balkans in Turkey Bosniaks .(Hersekzade Ahmed Pasha converting to Islam)--Sokac121 (talk) 12:50, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

The Turkish government estimates 2,000,000 Bosniaks within its borders without going into the detail of things. Bosnia and Albania were the only two regions in Ottoman Europe where large-scale conversions to Islam took place, with the name for the Bosnian Muslim nation being Bosniak ("Bosnaklar" in the Turkish language). Hersekzade Ahmed Pasha stems from medieval Bosnia as do obviously Bosnian Muslims, there is nothing that would separate them from him. I'm afraid your post does not make much sense. Praxis Icosahedron ϡ (TALK) 12:58, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

I see praxis likes to acuse me of nationalism around wikipedia alot.. interesting complex... while that source isnt actually "mine" as you written, it was ther ebe4 i even got to wikipedia. I believe your nationalistic ideals of 2 million bosniaks in turkey (more than in bosnia) arent any better. And talking about Bosniak entity... what...? Bosniaks started to exist in the 70s, but mainly accepted that name after the 90s wars... so dont make up history... befor etat names bosniak, Bošnjak, bošnjanin Bosanac- bosnian or whatever... were all connected to settlers of bosnia, not a ethnic group. Dont forget that all kings of bosnia have crowned as kings of Serbs... Bosniaks are by ancestry Serbs and croats who got turkified and converted to Islam during the ottoman rule... just like some Bulgarians, Albanians and others did in the balkans.... Turks didnt only come to convert a group called bosniaks in todays teritory of ex-yugoslavia :) ... they were converting serbs and croats and other christians... dont forget that in french language they dont know the term "Bosnian" but only bosniak- so they name settlers of bosnia as -Bosniaque Serbes, Bosniaque Croates and Bosniaque de Musulmans--- another proof that bosniak is just a name for a settler regionall affilation not an ethnical one... but lets leave that beside... the source isnt reliable for me either, just i beliee atleast few hundered thousand people have serbian ancestry in turkey --- eventough they are mostly assimilated, as wella s bosniaks, albanians and others.... but millions is a pumped up number perhaps up to million or 2 million of all ancestral groups of islamized christians from the balkans. (Правичност (talk) 01:52, 16 May 2013 (UTC))

It is very funny to see that Šokac accuse someone for nationalism. This article is without any doubt sensationalist article that try to make some completely unrealistic maximum numbers. I mean, this article is of tabloid character without any serious foundation. Each speakerof Serbo-Croatian language see it easily. I think it would be better to try to find some official data. But I think that Turkey do not make census data on ethnicity if I am well informed? Maybe you can find some scientific papers on that subject? Basically, we should try to find some reliable data and this article is not reliable source. When it comes to history that user Правичност mention, I think it is totally irrelevant for this issue (number of people in community). This may be important in section History in that article because it may lead to some conflicts among editors of articles about Serbs and Bosniaks in Turkey. It is true that national feelings of Bosniaks developed relatively late (like among Austrians or Macedonians). But I still think that historical data on some important people should be used by both articles. Is is connected with both present day communities in Turkey. But members of WP Turkey will know to give more advice on that if that become necessary. All the best.--MirkoS18 (talk) 14:55, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

I just want to add one hint to user Nedim Ardoğa question (Let's make one point clear. Are we referring to Bosnians or Serbs ?). I guess you really think when you ask: Are we referring to Bosniaks or Serbs ? There are Bosnians and Bosniaks. Bosnians are people from Bosnia and that term include Bosniaks, Bosnian Serbs, Bosnian Croats and others. At the same time Bosniaks are only Muslims from Bosnia and one of three ethnic groups. It was just one note so that we know what we are talking about (: .--MirkoS18 (talk) 15:07, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

@ nationalist user Правичност: it is amusing to see how your little objection to my "accusation" is followed by blatant nationalist drivel. Ridiculously enough, you just pleaded guilty to the accusation whether you like it or not. Despite your miserable destitution of knowledge and logical thinking, I shall for a brief while commit to curing your "interesting complex" as you refer to it. 1) You have continuously defended the "source" in the edit history regardless of who introduced it. 2) The French word "Bosniaque" derives from Bosnjak (Bosniak) and not Bosnian (Bosanac); the name for Bosnians (as opposed to Bosniaks) being "Bosniens" in the French language. So much for your familiarity with the language in question, Mr. Greater Serbia. 3) All ethnonyms were strictly political and/or territorial before the dawn of nationalism during the 19th century which formed the current national states, including those of Croats and Serbs. As such, Bosniak nationalism did lag a few decades behind their irredentist neighbors, Croatia and Serbia, which were nothing short of instrumental in hampering the Bosniak identity from the very beginning. Up until the late 19th century, all Bosnians had identified as Bosniaks regardless of faith. It does not matter if this was "only" in a political or territorial sense since the names "Serb" and "Croat" did not possess any additional meaning either during this period. Naturally, being the nationalist you are, you would like to assume that the name "Serb" has always had the same nationalistic appeal as it does today. Well it hasn't. As a matter of fact, Christian Bosnian(k)s had not described themselves as either Serbs or Croats before the nationalist movements of 19th-century Serbia and Croatia seized the Orthodox and Catholics in Bosnia, respectively; the Muslim Bosnian(k)s, being the dominating and ruling class of Bosnia, were of course much stronger (and prouder) to reject their neghbours' claims. Simply put, there is no historic occurrence or relevance of Serb or Croat identities in Bosnia. There was only a Bosnian(k) identity which medieval and, subsequently, Ottoman Bosnia was based upon; if this was a territorial or political name is irrelevant since no ethnonyms had acquired a national dimension before the dawn of nationalism in the 19th century. 4) The source of 2 million Bosniaks in Turkey is not allegedly the result of my imagination but an estimate commissioned by the Turkish government itself, and that is that. 5) The conversion rates in countries other than Bosnia and Albania were negligible throughout the Ottoman Balkans; there were no significant numbers of Serbs or Croats embracing Islam. Hence, the Muslim Slavs in Turkey overwhelmingly trace their origin to Bosnia, i.e. they are Bosniaks. 6) If you should wish, I suspect, to further defile this discussion by bringing up your take on the Slav migrations of the 6th and 7th centuries to the Balkans, please save your breathe. The early "Serbs" and "Croats" were two small, but powerful, non-slavic Iranian tribes which ruled over the Slavs living on parts of the territory of modern-day Serbia and Croatia; thus they merely passed on their "Serb" and "Croat" names to their Slav subjects. This event is identical with the Bulgarians which adopted their ethnonym from the much less-numerous Turkic Bulgars that ruled them. Bosnia was a remote and mountainous region unaffected by these events, and so the Bosnians attached their identity to their homeland rather. Ever since its formation in the middle ages, Bosnia has been a distinct and separate country from Serbia and Croatia with its own identity and history. Reading any of the seven or so contemporary scholarly publications on the history of Bosnia will make this clear. Even a text book printed in the former Yugoslavia will not obscure this fact, however what has happened since the wars of the early 90s is the unleashing of repressed Serb and Croat nationalist chauvinism, every now and then rearing its ugly head on wikipedia. Praxis Icosahedron ϡ (TALK) 03:32, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

I would like to thank MirkoS18 for showing me the difference between Bosnian and Bosniak. (The western press however usually call Bosniaks as Moslems while calling Serbs and Croats by their natinal identity.) Well in Turkey I've seen people of Bosniak origin but I've never seen people of Serbian origin. Of course what I've personally seen is not a statistics. Nevertheless the figures given above are no way reliable.Nedim Ardoğa (talk) 08:01, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

@ Nedim Ardoğa: I'm sorry if I couldn't help you understand the difference between Bosnian and Bosniak through my earlier posts. However, this difference is just a terminological one since etymologically Bosnian (Bosanac) and Bosniak (Bosnjak) mean the same: a native of Bosnia. More specifically, Bosniaks consider themselves Bosnians in an ethnic sense, whereas Christian Bosnians ethnically consider themselves either Serbs or Croats and Bosnians only in a regional/territorial sense. This ethnic configuration has its roots beginning in the second half of the 19th century when Bosnians became ethnically divided based on religious belonging. There is not more than that to it. In Serb- and to a lesser extent Croat-dominated Yugoslavia Bosniaks were not recognized as a distinct nation and were instead defined as Muslims by nationality and thus simply known as "Muslims" up until the dissolution of Yugoslavia. This inaccurate terminology (since Bosniaks are an ethnic group greater than the sum of their religion) was overtaken by the English-speaking world out of practicality during the 90s wars. This is slowly being rectified with the major western medias (BBC, CNN, AP and so forth) gradually coming to use "Bosniak". I don't know which figures you conclude as unreliable - but the figure of 9 million Serbs is obviously downright bizarre as already explained. The number of 2 million people of full or partial Bosniak ancestry in Turkey is produced by the Turkish government and as reliable as can be; we definitely lack the authority to reject it. Praxis Icosahedron ϡ (TALK) 16:33, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

Please don't forget that the original discussion was on Serbians in Turkey, not on Bosniaks. Nedim Ardoğa (talk) 20:06, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

You still seem to miss the point: there are no Serbs in Turkey. This whole discussion was started because of a Serbian-language nationalist article claiming Bosniaks as Serbs. The two subjects are therefore inseparable in this circumstance. Praxis Icosahedron ϡ (TALK) 20:48, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

Praxis your a funny guy i dont care what you say, .. you just named bosnian serbs and croats christian bosniaks by origin. that explains enough about you. you and your anti-serb friend shokac can continue to nag i just dont care for the likes of you. I btw only read a few words from the beggining of wht you wrote and when i saw what nonsence your spilling out i didnt read the rest of 2 758 words you had to say. Bosnian Serbs and Bosnian Croats were never and never will be Bosniaks, that can only be your dream :). Goodnight and dont talk one more thing about me again or to talk to me in any way. Just lay off me with your ultra serb-hating complexes. Oh and btw crack your self up by finding these so called Bosniaks who turned into Serbs and Croats in 19th century on these maps from Middle ages up to 19th century :)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d5/Slavic_tribes_in_the_Balkans.png http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9e/Origins_700_%281%29.png http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7a/Slaven.jpg http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/90/Europe_814.svg

Farewell :) (Правичност (talk) 22:39, 8 July 2013 (UTC))

We also need to put in on Wikipedia and write that Serbs are Muslim religion, 70% Orthodox, 30% Muslim or even 50% Orthodox, 50% Muslim. For User:Правичност all Bosniaks, Montenegrins, Croats actually Serbs. These days marking the 18th anniversary of genocide in Srebrenica. :( It is unfortunate that the nationalists allows denial Nations.--Sokac121 (talk) 19:50, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

You guys will surely get a kick out of this one. Before I get yelled at for discrimination and whatever nonsense you want to throw at me, I'm just stating the situation as it is, from the eyes of countless people I've interacted with. Yes, personal research but still nevertheless valid. Back on point, Muslims in the former Yugoslavia tend to align themselves more toward Bosniaks because it gives them a sense of belonging. Bosniak has now come to stand for, in a sense anyway, a Slavic Muslim from the former Yugoslavia. Some people actually prefer to call themselves Bosniak because saying you're Muslim is like taboo for some. Political correctness if you will. Now, let's be real here for a second, Serbs and Montenegrins are predominantly Eastern Orthodox, Croats predominantly Roman Catholic; they all have negative attitudes toward the presence of Muslims, and they rightly do so given the history. Do you really think they would simply be OK with the idea that Muslims call themselves Serbs, Montenegrins, Croats? Hundred years ago, they'd commit genocide or chase you away. Now, the situation is somewhat different, largely thanks to the Communist society of Yugoslavia but even so, Muslims still feel alienated in the very countries they call home and have called home for centuries. Back to Bosniaks, Bosniaks are a Muslim-majority ethnic group, the largest in the former Yugoslavia. Muslims align themselves to the Bosniaks based on the theory that united we stand, divided we fall. Bosniaks have truly made a lot of progress towards the better treatment of citizens of the Muslim faith throughout the former Yugoslavia, again together, but these sentiments that have existed for centuries continue to live, plaguing the Bosniaks. On a side-note, before you say Bosniaks aren't all Muslim, that most are atheist, I'm pretty sure most of them were Muslim or originate from Muslim families. Personal names and surnames are a dead giveaway. In the end, it's not even about ethnic affiliations but rather the religious pretext and what faith you believe in that determines your ethnic affiliation. And that, my friends, has been and will always be the underlying problem of the former Yugoslavia. --Prevalis (talk) 07:35, 10 July 2013 (UTC)

Announcement:I see that the discussion is no more on the Serbian population in Turkey and there is a heated discussion on ethnicity (so far about 20 kB.) Ignoring some of the sarcastic remarks, I do hope that the discussion is a fruitful one. But is the Project Turkey page the right place to continue the discussion ? Nedim Ardoğa (talk) 21:22, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

File:Haydarpasha train station istanbul - Recoloured.jpg

File:Haydarpasha train station istanbul - Recoloured.jpg has been nominated for deletion (here and on commons) -- 65.94.76.126 (talk) 08:08, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

Turkish Postal Service Law of 1930

I've been looking for some information on the Turkish Postal Service Law of 1930. It's currently a wiki red-link, but with several articles linking to it (mostly Turkish cities). It seems an important topic, not just for its obvious impact in renaming cities in international usage, but its wider roots in the establishing of a Turkish state and identity. Is there an article on it on the Turkish wikipedia that someone could translate over, or else does anyone have the knowledge/sources to create at least a stub? Grunners (talk) 11:18, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

Tarafli Hatay maddeleri

Arkadaslar, [9] ve [10] sayfalara biraz bakabilirmisiniz? Tam bir tarafli suriyeli arap irredentist propagandasi dolu sayfalar. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sogukserkan (talk • contribs) 14:08, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

Both links are the same. Hatay Province certainly needs improvements. But the edits should be sourced. Why don't you try ? I may help if I can Nedim Ardoğa (talk) 17:13, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

Levon shant photo.jpg

image:Levon shant photo.jpg has been nominated for deletion -- 65.94.79.6 (talk) 06:01, 16 June 2013 (UTC)

Was Ataturk a freemason?

Topic being discussed at WP:ANI, in the context of an edit war. The thread is called "POV Editwarring at List of Freemasons (A - D)". 86.121.18.17 (talk) 18:20, 17 June 2013 (UTC)