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Main polities

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Lead section

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WP:COUNTRYLEAD

Opening paragraphs

The article should start with a good simple introduction, giving name of the country, general location in the world, bordering countries, seas and the like. Also give other names by which the country may still be known (for example Holland, Persia). Also, add a few facts about the country, the things that it is known for (for example the mentioning of windmills in the Netherlands article).

The etymology of a country's name, if worth noting, may be dealt with in the Etymology or History section. Naming disputes may also belong in the Etymology or History section.

Overly detailed information or infobox data duplication such as listing random examples, numbered statistics or naming individuals should be reserved for the infobox or body of the article.

Example: . Canada and Japan as below .

Y A developed country, Canada has a high nominal per capita income globally and its advanced economy ranks among the largest in the world, relying chiefly upon its abundant natural resources and well-developed international trade networks. Recognized as a middle power, Canada's strong support for multilateralism and internationalism has been closely related to its foreign relations policies of peacekeeping and aid for developing countries. Canada is part of multiple international organizations and forums.
N A highly developed country, Canada has the seventeenth-highest nominal per-capita income globally and the sixteenth-highest ranking in the Human Development Index. Its advanced economy is the tenth-largest in the world and the 14th for military expenditure by country, Canada is part of several major international institutions including the United Nations, NATO, the G7, the Group of Ten, the G20, the United States–Mexico–Canada Agreement, the Commonwealth of Nations, the Organisation internationale de la Francophonie, the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation forum, and the Organization of American States.
Y Japan is a highly developed country and a great power, with one of the largest economies by nominal GDP. Japan has renounced its right to declare war, though it maintains a self-defense force that ranks as one of the world's strongest militaries. A global leader in the automotive, robotics, and electronics industries, the country has made significant contributions to science and technology, and is one of the world's largest exporters and importers. It is part of multiple major international and intergovernmental institutions.
N Japan is a member of numerous international organizations, including the United Nations (since 1956), the OECD, and the Group of Seven. Although it has renounced its right to declare war, the country maintains Self-Defense Forces that rank as 10th for military expenditure by country, After World War II, Japan experienced record growth in an economic miracle, becoming the second-largest economy in the world by 1990. As of 2021, the country's economy is the third-largest by nominal GDP, the fourth-largest by PPP and ranked "very high" on the Human Development Index.

Infobox

There is a table with quick facts about the country called an infobox. A template for the table can be found at the bottom of this page.

Although the table can be moved out to the template namespace (to e.g. [[Template:CountryName Infobox]]) and thus easen the look of the edit page, most Wikipedians still disapprove as of now, see the talk page.

The contents are as follows:

The official long-form name of the country in the local language is to go on top as the caption. If there are several official names (languages), list all (if reasonably feasible). The conventional long-form name (in English), if it differs from the local long-form name, should follow the local name(s). This is not a parameter to list every recognized language of a country, but rather for listing officially recognize national languages.
The conventional short-form name of the country, recognised by the majority of the English-speaking world; ideally, this should also be used for the name of the article.
A picture of the national flag. You can find flags at the List of flags. A smaller version should be included in the table itself, a larger-sized version in a page titled Flag of <country>, linked to via the "In Detail" cell. Instead of two different images, use the autothumbnail function that wiki offers.
A picture of the national coat of arms. A good source is required for this, but not yet available. It should be no more than 125 pixels in width.
Below the flag and coat of arms is room for the national motto, often displayed on the coat of arms (with translation, if necessary).
The official language(s) of the country. (rot the place to list every recognized or used language)
The political status. Specify if it is a sovereign state or a dependent territory.
The capital city, or cities. Explain the differences if there are multiple capital cities using a footnote (see example at the Netherlands).
If the data on the population is recent and reliable, add the largest city of the country.
Land area: The area of the country in square kilometres (km²) and square miles (sq mi) with the world-ranking of this country. Also add the % of water, which can be calculated from the data in the Geography article (make it negligible if ~0%).
Population: The number of inhabitants and the world-ranking; also include a year for this estimate (should be 2000 for now, as that is the date of the ranking). For the population density you can use the numbers now available.
GDP: The amount of the gross domestic product on ppp base and the world ranking. also include the amount total and per head.
HDI: Information pertaining to the UN Human Development Index – the value, year (of value), rank (with ordinal), and category (colourised as per the HDI country list).
Currency; the name of the local currency. Use the pipe if the currency name is also used in other countries: [[Australian dollar|dollar]].
Time zone(s); the time zone or zones in which the country is relative to UTC
National anthem; the name of the National anthem and a link to the article about it.
Internet TLD; the top-level domain code for this country.
Calling Code; the international Calling Code used for dialing this country.

Lead map

There is a long-standing practice that areas out of a state's control should be depicted differently on introductory maps, to not give the impression the powers of a state extend somewhere they do not. This is for various types of a lack of control, be it another state (eg. Crimea, bits of Kashmir) or a separatist body (eg. DPR, TRNC).

Sections

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WP:COUNTRYSECTIONS

A section should be written in summary style, containing just the important facts. Undue weight can be given in several ways, including but not limited to the depth of detail, the quantity of text, prominence of placement, the juxtaposition of statements, and the use of imagery. Main article fixation is an observed effect that editors are likely to encounter in county articles. If a section it is too large, information should be transferred to the sub-article. Avoid sections focusing on criticisms or controversies. Try to achieve a more neutral text by folding debates into the narrative, rather than isolating them into sections.

Articles may consist of the following sections:

Etymology sections are often placed first (sometimes called name depending on the information in the article). Include only if due information is available.
History – An outline of the major events in the country's history (about 4 to 6 paragraphs, depending on complexity of history), including some detail on current events. Sub-article: "History of X"
Politics – Overview of the current governmental system, possibly previous forms, some short notes on the parliament. Sub-article: "Politics of X"
Administrative divisions – Overview of the administrative subdivisions of the country. Name the section after the first level of subdivisions (and subsequent levels, if available) (e.g. provinces, states, departments, districts, etc.) and give the English equivalent name, when available. Also include overseas possessions. This section should also include an overview map of the country and subdivisions, if available.
Geography – Details of the country's main geographic features and climate. Historical weather boxes should be reserved for sub articles. Sub-article: "Geography of X"
Economy – Details on the country's economy, major industries, bit of economic history, major trade partners, a tad comparison etc. Sub-article: "Economy of X"
Demographics – Mention the languages spoken, the major religions, some well known properties of the people of X, by which they are known. Uncontextualized data and charts should be avoided. (See WP:NOTSTATS and WP:PROSE) Sub-article: "Demographics of X".
Culture – Summary of the country's specific forms of art (anything from painting to film) and its best known cultural contributions. Caution should be taken to ensure that the sections are not simply a listing of names or mini biographies of individuals accomplishments. Good example Canada#Sports. Sub-article: "Culture of X".
See also – Aim to include relevant information within the article and reduce the See also section See WP:See also. ('See also" sections of country articles normally only contain links to "Index of country" and "Outline of country" articles, alongside the main portal(s)).
References – Sums up "Notes", "References", and all "Further Reading" or "Bibliography"
External links – Links to official websites about the country. See WP:External links

Size

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WP:COUNTRYSIZE

Articles that have gone through FA and GA reviews generally consists of approximately 8,000 to 10,000 words as per WP:SIZERULE, with a lead usually four paragraphs as per MOS:LEADLENGTH.

Australia = Prose size (text only): 60 kB (9,304 words) "readable prose size"
Bulgaria = Prose size (text only): 56 kB (8,847 words) "readable prose size"
Canada = Prose size (text only): 67 kB (9,936 words) "readable prose size"
Germany = Prose size (text only): 54 kB (8,456 words) "readable prose size"
Japan = Prose size (text only): 51 kB (8,104 words) "readable prose size"
East Timor = Prose size (text only): 53 kB (8152 words) "readable prose size"
Malaysia = Prose size (text only): 57 kB (9092 words) "readable prose size"
New Zealand = Prose size (text only): 62 kB (9761 words) "readable prose size"
Philippines = Prose size (text only): 62 kB (9178 words) "readable prose size"

Hatnote

The link should be shown as below: Avoid link clutter of multiple child articles in a hierarchical setup as hatnotes. Important links/articles shoukd be incorporated into the prose of the section. For example, Canada#Economy is a summary section with a hatnote to Economy of Canada that summarizes the history with a hatnote to Economic history of Canada. See WP:SUMMARYHATNOTE for more recommended hatnote usages.

== Economy ==

Charts

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WP:COUNTRYCHARTS

As prose text is preferred, overly detailed statistical charts and diagrams such as economic trends, weather boxes, historical population charts, and past elections results, etc, should be reserved for main sub articles on the topic as per WP:DETAIL as outlined at WP:NOTSTATS.

Galleries

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WP:COUNTRYGALLERIE

Galleries or clusters of images are generally discouraged as they may cause undue weight to one particular section of a summary article and may cause accessibility problems, such as sandwiching of text, images that are too small or fragmented image display for some readers as outlined at WP:GALLERY. Articles that have gone through modern FA and GA reviews generally consists of one image for every three or four paragraphs, see MOS:ACCESS#FLOAT and MOS:SECTIONLOC for more information.

Footers

As noted at Wikipedia:Categories, lists, and series boxes the number of templates at the bottom of any article should be kept to a minimum. Country pages generally have footers that link to pages for countries in their geographic region. Footers for international organizations are not added to country pages, but they rather can go on subpages such as "Economy of..." and "Foreign relations of..." Categories for some of these organizations are also sometimes added. Templates for supranational organizations like the European Union and CARICOM are permitted. A list of the footers that have been created can be found at Wikipedia:WikiProject Countries/Templates/Navboxes, however note that many of these are not currently in use.

Transclusions

Transclusions are generally discouraged in country articles for reasons outlined below.

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H:TRANSDRAWBACKS

Like many software technologies, transclusion comes with a number of drawbacks. The most obvious one being the cost in terms of increased machine resources needed; to mitigate this to some extent, template limits are imposed by the software to reduce the complexity of pages. Some further drawbacks are listed below.

Transcluded text may have no sources for statements that should be sourced where they appear, have different established reference styles, contain no-text cite errors, or duplicate key errors. (To help mitigate these, see Help:Cite errors)
Excerpts break the link between article code and article output.
Changes made to transcluded content often do not appear in watchlists, resulting in unseen changes on the target page.
Transcluded text may cause repeated links or have different varieties of English and date formats than the target page.
Transclusions may not reflect protection levels, resulting in transcluded text perhaps having a different level of protection than the target page. See Cascading protection
{{excerpt}} and related templates may require using <noinclude>, <includeonly> and <onlyinclude> markup at the transcluded page to have selective content; that would require monitoring that the markup is sustained.
Excerpts cause editors to monitor transcluded pages for "section heading" changes to ensure transclusion continues to work. (To help mitigate this, see MOS:BROKENSECTIONLINKS)
Excerpts can result in content discussions over multiple talk pages that may have different considerations or objectives for readers.

Lists of countries

To determine which entities should be considered separate "countries" or included on lists, use the entries in ISO 3166-1 plus the list of states with limited recognition, except:

Lists based on only a single source should follow that source.
Specific lists might need more logical criteria. For example, list of sovereign states omits non-sovereign entities listed by ISO-3166-1. Lists of sports teams list whichever entities that have teams, regardless of sovereignty. Lists of laws might follow jurisdiction boundaries (for example, England and Wales is a single jurisdiction).

For consistency with other Wikipedia articles, the names of entities do not need to follow sources or ISO-3166-1. The names used as the titles of English Wikipedia articles are a safe choice for those that are disputed.

Resources

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Related WikiProjects

Popular pages

Wikipedia:WikiProject Countries/Popular pages

Archive 1 Archive 2 Archive 3

Map

The map in the infobox makes Norway look enormous even though it's actually smaller than e.g. France. I realize this is a problem with the projection, but doesn't anyone have a map with more reasonable proportions? 130.64.224.93 20:53, 21 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I agree, the map does definitely seem to distort Norway's size in relation to other European countries, it appears almost magnified in every direction. The resolution is about right I think, it's just that not so much of Europe should also be visible. Canderra 06:19, 22 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Asatru

Asatru is legally defined as a religious movement in Norway, I had edited the page stating this, but was quickly reverted back to it's previous form. Will someone who actually knows how to use Wikipedia please insert? One of the sources I have is Asatru, and a quick Google search will give you many pages about it. Unconscious 11:59, 2 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Norway, Six Times Olympic Medal Count Winner Despite its Tiny Size

Could this be of interest to members of this forum? I created a table for all the Olympic medal count winners including Norway. It also includes per capita data, where Norway excels. The original article is here: Olympic Medal Statistics: Medal Count Winners. Recently, however, someone nominated this article for deletion. If you want to comment on whether it really should be deleted, go to this article's entry. Thanks! Medalstats 14:22, 3 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Opening sentence / Country name

"The Kingdom of Norway (Nynorsk: Kongeriket Noreg; Bokmål: Kongeriket Norge) is a Nordic country west of Sweden on the Scandinavian Peninsula."

It's a bit long. Aren't there better ways of describing the "Norge/Noreg" situation? Besides, the links to Nynorsk and Bokmål are both redirects to Norwegian language, and it is a bit misleading to give impression of two separate articles, when there's only one. 14:32, 4 Jan 2005 (UTC)

How about deleting the parentheses, like it was before: "The Kingdom of Norway is a Nordic country west of Sweden on the Scandinavian Peninsula." The Norwegian versions of the country name are listed in the infobox anyway and, as long as Bokmål/Nynorsk are stated as official languages, it may not be necessary to explain the Norge/Noreg situation any further. --Eddi 01:30, 10 Jan 2005 (UTC)

That's what I wanted, but it was reverted. 10:20, 10 Jan 2005 (UTC)

The opinions could be polled here and, if conclusive, support one or the other version. --Eddi 20:26, 10 Jan 2005 (UTC)

My take is rephrasing the "west of Sweden" statement. While factually true, the same could be said if we wrote "west of China" or "east of Greenland". Using "bordering Russia, Finland and Sweden, with territorial waters bordering Danish and Brtish" would be less patronizing of Norway. As it is, enough people think Norway is the capital of Sweden, and using a "Sweden is a point of reference that more people know of" as an argument would be odd - considering how Russia is also immideately east of Norway, and, I should think, rather well known. I know it doesen't exactly shorten the opening sentece, but this is a hot point for me. --TVPR 09:16, 10 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Template:Infobox Country

I don't understand what's the big deal. Could someone please start discussing here instead of in the history? If this is part of a bigger discussion please insert a link to that discussion. Thanks. --Eddi 00:08, 10 Jan 2005 (UTC)

[1]. Gzornenplatz 01:00, Jan 10, 2005 (UTC)

Thank you. I'll follow the discussion at the Village Pump. --Eddi 01:11, 10 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Judging from discussions here and there, the Template:Infobox Country seems to be most popular. I'm now testing it on Norway. Please have a look and return with your thoughts.
The template has many variables that may be used plainly or manipulated, see for example the Area Total, Constitution / Independence, and Internet TLD rows – with a slightly unelegant solution for the TLDs. --Eddi 23:40, 11 Jan 2005 (UTC)

There hasn't been much editing lately, so I wonder: Is the layout acceptable? If all details are copied correctly, we should perhaps delete Template:Norway infobox. --Eddi 19:04, 14 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Population

Census

Does Norway have census? The infobox indicates a census of 2001, but Norwegian authorities keeps a continuous count (from births and deaths), and does not hold census in the manner of other some other countries, as far as I know. 06:58, 2 Feb 2005 (UTC)

The last Norwegian census was held in 2001. Although it focused on standard of living, employment, education, standard of residences, size of households, temporary location of residents etc., it was indeed a census counting the population. It was proposed to be the last Norwegian census ever, and so far it has been... See http://www.ssb.no/fob/ --Eddi (Talk) 23:55, 2 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Source of population estimates

It has been argued to use the population from the list of countries by population. Why should it be used, if it isn't the most recent estimate? The first list on that page is taken from the 2003 edition of the CIA World Factbook, and even if it was taken from the 2004 edition it would be far from updated. The second list is dated January 2005, but the source is not stated. By the way, the recently reverted population estimate did not use the population from the list at all. In my opinion the best source for the article on Norway would be the official Statistics Norway. For the complete list, the CIA World Factbook or something else could be used. --Eddi (Talk) 13:48, 3 Feb 2005 (UTC)

English Wikipedia and Norway

It is so much strange things written about Norway on English Wikipedia that the articles cannot be taken very seriously. E.g. is Svalbard and Jan Mayen listed as dependencies and the coat of arm pictured has even never been the coat of arm of the kingdom (only used by the king before WW II). When I am trying to correct these mistakes the corrections are being reversed by people who does not have the simplest understanding about what they are talking about. Therefore I am giving up this project. My suggestion to those of you who will use English Wikipedia, check the sources or try Norwegian Wikipedia - it is at least written by natives!

The lion is the official coat of arms of the Norwegian State. Caplex, a Norwegian encyclopedia says so. For more evidence, just look at the logos at Odin(government website), the pages of the Norwegian military or the official information site of Norway.

Jakro64 08:16, 6 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Information on the Coat of Arms can be found here: [2]. This is as official as it gets. --Cybbe 23:56, July 31, 2005 (UTC)

Better map?

Does anyone have a map with a better projection? As it is, the "goathead"-part is completely squished and the entire thing looks slightly bizarre. --Kaleissin 13:09:53, 2005-08-31 (UTC)

You could have a look in the Image namespaces at commons (starting at "Norw"), en: (starting at "Norw"), no: (all) or nn: (all), or ask at the Norwegian village pumps no:Tinget or nn:Samfunnshuset. For the general geography there are at least en:Image:No-map.png and nn:Image:Noreg kart.jpg, and for an overview of the counties commons:Image:Norway counties.jpg and no:Image:Norgesfylker.png. By the way, which map are you referring to – the one in the infobox or that in the Counties section? --Eddi (Talk) 14:33, 31 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

The one in the infobox. I've lived up there so I'm a little protective of maps of the area, it so often get turned into a shapeless blob. Where would be a good place to discuss the reason for the russian wedge into eastern Finnmark? There are so many potential places it could go. Here, or an article on Finnmark, or czarist Russia, or the Russian orthodox church... --Kaleissin 11:57:48, 2005-09-03 (UTC)

Yes, maps viewed from the equator tend to be somewhat distorted that far north. For discussion of wedges I suggest no:Diskusjon:Norge, no:Diskusjon:Norges geografi, or no:Diskusjon:Finnmark. I notice there is a Russian church at Boris Gleb at the end of the wedge, east of Bjørnevatn. But isn't the Norwegian wedge between Russia and Finland really the peculiar one? --Eddi (Talk) 14:34, 3 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Boris Gleb is the reason alright. The other wedge would have been a lot less wedgy if it weren't for that church. The big wedge follows a river southwards and iirc there were settlers from southern Norway living all along it. --Kaleissin 16:09:43, 2005-09-03 (UTC)

How does one define early?

As per a recent edit summary, how is "early in the century" defined? Ten first years? Twenty? --Kaleissin 11:57:48, 2005-09-03 (UTC)

Irrelevant. --84.234.215.241 19:37, 17 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Human Rights in Norway

I've noticed there is no "Human Rights in Norway" article. The treatment of natives, racism and discrimination in today, and the controversy regarding Arne Treholdt and others might deserve a mentioning. NWOG 12:48, 22 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Then be bold and add it - allthought considering the vast maajority of norwegians are natives, I'm not sure what you mean by that part of your comment (unless off course you mean the sami, who pretty much get treated like royaltiy these days). WegianWarrior 13:30, 22 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Ho hum, "royalty" is a bit of an overstatement. We are definately among the luckier minorities of the world today, but it took some fighting and a good deal of cruel discrimination before we got there. Anyhoo, the Treholt case is worthy of mention, though I'm not taking the time to read up and add today, it would be fun to do so later.

Also: Norway's treatment of refugees runs counter to UN regulations, though this is also true for many other Western countries (User: Misha BB)

I suppose this is a valid subject in present as well as the past, and should not be brushed off bluntly. Such an article or section could discuss the treatment of e.g. arrestees, children, disabled, elderly, ethnic minorities, homosexuals, immigrants, political and religious dissidents, poor people, prisoners, women, etc. through different periods in time. All of these and others were or are treated badly in various ways by the Norwegian state or significant portions of the public. However, this being a sensitive issue, any coverage of the subject needs substantial reference material. I can't provide any references and therefore I can't contribute to an article. --Eddi (Talk) 03:41, 23 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

"The constitution forbids ..., and the use of torture." As I recall, the constitution says: "Pinligt Forhør maa ikke finde Sted (§96 http://www.lovdata.no/all/tl-18140517-000-006.html)" = "torture should not be used during interrogation". AFAIK, the constitution does not forbid torture as a penalty.

The swastika is not forbidden directly. The law forbids hateful or discriminating statements made in public, either by words or symbols. The link refers to an article in a norwegian newspaper. It says that norwegian nazis have raised a nazi flag in some company's pole. I'm not sure you would get convicted after §135a for that.

...Your understanding of the constitution is incorrect. The translation you refer to does not refelct the norwegian meaning of the phrase "maa ikke". The correct translation is "must not", and the english translation would be "torture must not be used during interrogation". Also, the wording refers to interrogation, not punishment. Torture in any form or for any reason i s strictly forbidden in Norway.

Oslo not closer to Rome

Unless we include Svalbard, which is a special case which does not qualify as "northern regions" (what regions?). Take a close look at a map. From Oslo, Rome is farther away than any point on mainland Norway -by a clear margin. Therefore, I suggest this: Oslo in fact being closer to Paris than to Vardø. Because that is actually a correct statement. Orcaborealis 22:55, 6 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Well, if your statement is actually correct, I see no problem with it. Is Vardø Norwegian for Svalbard (I'm American, the only link I have to Norway being that my girlfriend is Norwegian)?Tommstein 00:51, 7 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Nevermind that stupid question, I looked at the article and now see what Vardø is. I don't think being closer to Paris is all that impressive though, so maybe the sentence should just be completely removed.Tommstein 00:54, 7 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I think the statement is a misrepresentation of what we learned in school, i.e. if one were to turn Norway around its southern point, then the farthest point would almost reach Rome. The southern point is Lindesnes (not Oslo), and the farthest point from Lindesnes is close to Vardø. To check our school lesson quickly and crudely we may first calculate only the differences in latitude (north-south) by simple subtraction, which gives a distance from Lindesnes to Vardø of 12.23° and from Lindesnes to Rome of 16.20°, i.e. quite different (see data below). If we calculate great-circle distances instead, counting longitude as well as latitude using non-Euclidean geometry, the distances are 15.75° or 1752 km Lindesnes-Vardø, and 16.53° or 1838 km Lindesnes-Rome, i.e. quite similar. This may or may not be worth mentioning in the article. --Eddi (Talk) 06:03, 7 November 2005 (UTC) / 18:44, 7 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Item	Location	Lat. (° N)	Long. (° E)	Angular distance (°) to						Great-circle distance (km) to
Item	Location	Lat. (° N)	Long. (° E)	NC	V	O	L	P	R	NC	V	O	L	P	R
NC	North Cape	71.17	25.79	--	1.87	12.77	15.14	24.82	30.02	--	208	1420	1684	2760	3339
V	Vardø	70.33	30.85	1.87	--	13.27	15.75	25.34	29.93	208	--	1476	1752	2818	3329
O	Oslo	59.93	10.75	12.77	13.27	--	2.56	12.08	18.06	1420	1476	--	284	1343	2009
L	Lindesnes	58.10	7.28	15.14	15.75	2.56	--	9.68	16.53	1684	1752	284	--	1077	1838
P	Paris	48.87	2.33	24.82	25.34	12.08	9.68	--	9.95	2760	2818	1343	1077	--	1107
R	Rome	41.90	12.48	30.02	29.93	18.06	16.53	9.95	--	3339	3329	2009	1838	1107	--

lat.=latitude; long.=longitude

Exactly. So the statement "Oslo being closer to Rome" is false, by a good margin. Even if we use Lindesnes, the statement is false. This is the free encyclopedia - false statements are of course unacceptable. If anyting, one of it's purposes is to falsify myths. Here is a suggestion that might underline the elongated shape: Vardø is the easternmost town in Western Europe and is in fact east of Istanbul. This is correct, if we use the standard definitions of western Europe. Or, we could just mention the distance from north to south (1770 km, isn't it?). Or, we could just drop it and delete the sentence. And Tommstein, as I see it, where we happen to live is of no importance. Orcaborealis 15:54, 7 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I was just saying, my expertise on this probably pales badly compared to that of an actual Norwegian. I say, whip out the most impressive fact(s) that can be found, and stick it/them in. If none are too impressive, then we might as well not bother. Although that 'east of Istanbul' fact is impressive to me (what comes after Turkey, Iraq?). Saying that the southernmost point as almost as close to Rome than Vardø is also impressive, even if that southermost point isn't anything special and Vardø isn't a straight shot north; that highlights how long the country is.Tommstein 06:12, 8 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Hi!

In your article you mention: "The Kingdom of Norway also includes the arctic island territories of Svalbard and Jan Mayen." Shouldn't you also mentionate the Norwegian part of Antartica: Dronning Mauds Land (Queen Maud's Land)? It is just as much a part of the Norwegian territory. Vemund 16:21, 9 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, it isn't. While Jan Mayen, Svalbard, Peter I's Island and Bouvet Island are Norwegian territory, Queen Maud's Land is just claimed - like all (I think) other nations with claims in the Antartic, Norway has decided not to persue the claim, but abide with international treaties (making Antartica pretty much a free for all (as long as you don't pollute). WegianWarrior 18:08, 9 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The antarctic territories are not part of the Kingdom and they have no permanent population. //Big Adamsky 18:48, 9 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I briefly read through parts of the article, and under the sub-topic counties: hedmark, I discovered a dreadful and very suprising mistake. I assume that you are Norwegian, so you should know (but even though you are not): you wrote "logs are floated down Glomma to the coast." Are you honestly not aware of that floating of timber down the Glomma quitted in the 70ties?! Everyone should now by now...

PS! (General info.) You can see tools which was used to transportation and treatment of the log (while the process was still ongoing) in the coat of arms of Hedmark Fylkeskommune and Åsnes Kommune.

Vemund 15:43, 10 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The last timber was floated in Glomma in '85, but still there is floating going on in Skienselva acording to: [3]--Njård 23:13, 10 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Wow, I seriously didn't know! Strange that they are still doing that old-fassion stuff... My apologizes, but you should switch Glomma out with Skienselva, to not give the wrong impression to the readers.

Vemund 16:44, 11 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Bohuslän, Jämtland, and Härjedalen

The article's historical section states that "Norway saw its land area decrease in the 17th century with the loss of the provinces Båhuslen, Jemtland, and Herjedalen to Sweden." I wonder why we can't use the proper Swedish names Bohuslän, Jämtland, and Härjedalen, which are also the article names. --Eddi (Talk) 16:03, 16 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I'm assuming it's beacuse in Norwegian they are historicly known as Båhuslen, Jemtland and Herjedalen... the present day names of Bohuslän, Jämtland, and Härjedalen is the Swedish spelling. It makes sence, at least to me, to use the Norwegian spelling in an article about Norway.

Your milage may wary, off course, and if concenious is to use the Swedish spelling I won't revert.

WegianWarrior 16:59, 16 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

If it is the proper Norwegian spelling you wish to use, then you have to write Bohuslen instead of Båhuslen...

Vemund 15:00, 17 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I think the Wikipedian practice is using either native or local names, or using names in the language of the relevant Wikipedia. Since these provinces are Swedish and the language of the Wikipedia is English, we should use Swedish or English names. In this case I suggest we use Swedish names. --Eddi (Talk) 17:56, 17 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I totally agree! The Norwegian (the original) names of the places haven't been used since they belonged to Norway. In Norway, we also pronounce the names of the places as in Swedish. Use the Swedish names! Vemund 18:29, 17 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It makes sense to use the names of that historical time and place when the names are used in such a context, in the same way we use the name Christiania or Kristiania when talking about Oslo in a historical context in which those where the names at that time. -Kvaks 18:15, 22 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Suggest you take a look at Wikipedia:WikiProject Norway naming section quoted below:

BEGIN QUOTE

== Naming ==

For administrative units and geographical entities, the official Norwegian name [4] is used for the article, with redirects for English names when known. There is no reason to invent new English names, and it is undesirable as it introduces confusion.

===Historical names===

The many variations in rendering Norwegian names into English in histories and older literature should be honored when quoting or using original sources. Within the text of an article, historical names may be used if followed by the official Norwegian name in parentheses (e.g., “King Olaf (A.D. 1015-1021) summoned the people of the districts of Lesjar (Lesja) and Vagar (Vågå) to a Thing.”). If the modern name is unknown, the historical name alone may be used.

===Conflicting guidance among Scandinavian countries===

The Norwegian naming convention should be followed for discussions of Norway and Norwegian geography.

When Scandinavian history conflicts occur, the list of European regions with alternative names should be consulted, and for Norwegian topics the Norwegian convention followed. For example, the list indicates that Jemptia is the preferred form for the province that Sweden now calls Jämtland. In Norwegian history this is likely to appear by its former Norwegian name, Jemtland. Within the text of an article, historical names should be used if followed by alternative forms of the name in parentheses (e.g., “Sweden occupied the undefended Norwegian province of Jemtland (now Jämtland).”).

===Sub-municipality names===

If no official Norwegian name is available, follow the guidance of ISO 3166-2:NO, which is an ISO standard which defines geocodes: it is the subset of ISO 3166-2 which applies to Norway. For locales not covered by the standard, the form in Veiatlas Norge published by Statens Kartverk should be used.

===Other geographic features===

If no commonly accepted English form exists, the form in Veiatlas Norge should be used. A commonly accepted form exists if, and only if, a substantial majority (>75%) of published literature in English uses that form.

===Avoid clumsy wording===

It should be attempted to avoid wording that appear clumsy for readers that are fluent in both English and Norwegian.

Instead of The Nidelv river flows... or The river Nidelv flows...., use the Nidelv is a river that flows... to avoid the equivalent words (elv in Norwegian, river in English) appearing next to each other.

END QUOTE

Of course, if any of the above can be improved, we should. Williamborg

Thank you for the reference. (I should of course have consulted the project first.) Do piped wikilinks count as statement of current names, or should they be spelled out? If piped links are acceptable, the paragraph is all right now. If not, should we write "...the provinces Båhuslen (Bohuslän), Jemtland (Jämtland), and Herjedalen (Härjedalen)..." or "...the provinces Båhuslen, Jemtland, and Herjedalen (Bohuslän, Jämtland, and Härjedalen)..."? --Eddi (Talk) 00:31, 23 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Interesting question. I recommend we go with "...the provinces Båhuslen, Jemtland, and Herjedalen (currently Bohuslän, Jämtland, and Härjedalen)..." Williamborg 02:44, 25 January 2006 (UTC) [reply]

But when I try to articulate the logic, I must confess it is just that that way of phrasing it ‘feels’ slightly better. But I’m an engineer, so what do I know about it; I’ll try to remember to ask one of the technical editors tomorrow to see if there is an underlying logic for one approach rather than another.

Williamborg 02:51, 25 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Food

Anyone know anything about Norwegian food? I'm thinking of those delicious marzipan specialities and that variety of rice pudding. Springald 19:55, 20 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

You're thinking of kransekake and riskrem? WegianWarrior 11:13, 21 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

02:39, 27 December 2006 (UTC)Maroder

Norwegian food is fish.

The Church of Norway ( den norske kirke)

It is unfortunately not true that you have to be baptized to be counted as a mnmber of the State Church. it is not even true what the previous version said that both parents have to be memberers. The official version is that one parent has to bea member, for yothe child to be included in the chriuch membertship, but many people find themselve son the rolls even if noen of their parents were mebers, and they have never been baptized. The practice seems to vary from place to place, but in many instances being born is enough to become a member. --Vindheim 17:44, 10 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

This may or may not be the case, but I think references are needed. --Eddi (Talk) 01:30, 11 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hi.

What Vindheim writes is not correct. The only way you become a member of the Church is when you are baptized as there is 'official paper work' invovled.

-It is true to some extent. I was never baptized, and only my father (and not my mother) was a member of the State Church. Still I found myself a member of it, and asked to be removed. -- Maroder

- I do belive you automaticly become a member of the norwegian church when you are born, or even get you citizenship, I remember a few years ago when there was some hard feelings in muslim imigrants becoming "christians" when they got their norwegian citizenship..... -- unregistred....

A Theocracy?

From the article:

"In order to form a government, more than half (currently at least 10 out of 19 members) of the Council of State are required to belong to the Church of Norway."

Not quite like Iran, but that is surprising is it not, nowadays, in Europe? So it would improve the article to add a little explanation of how that arose, and why it persists. Midgley 22:49, 26 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Please read the article on the Church of Norway and Constitution of Norway for more explanation. It is equivalent to the Church of England, except that Norway has a constitution. In this case, it is bounded in paragraph 12 of the constitution. Interesting that you should be so interested in Norwegian politics and society. Lots of controversies here, but it would probably be a good idea that you read up about them before editing. --Leifern 00:48, 27 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

So does England - well, the UK - have a constitution, and since around the penultimate Elizabeth R there has not been a requirement for the government to be of a particular faith or any. (E2R has to be in order to be head of the Established church. And reading about it is a good idea. What shall I read? Oh I know, an encyclopaedia. Which is usefully cross-referenced on such matters. Midgley 13:04, 27 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

First, do not edit my entries on this discussion page. The United Kingdom does not have a written constitution. There are many source documents in English about Norway. In addition to various books, the Norwegian departments publish a lot of content in English, as do many Norwegian newspapers. --Leifern 11:44, 28 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Re editing, see below. --Eddi (Talk) 13:47, 28 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for making that clear. Eddi..'s edits were of course an improvement. Midgley 01:11, 29 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Not consistent, from the referneces given. Interesting the proportions, and the statmeent that the majority of government support disestablishment. If i have to give any excuses for reading a page of WP, and expressing an opinion (!), then let it be known that I have lived in a state where the Parliament is a Thing and meets on a hill, and I know where it comes from. Midgley 13:10, 27 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

As far as I know the reason is that the members of government who are not members of the church are not permitted to take part in decisions concerning the church. So you have to have a sufficient amount of members of goverment who are members of the church in order to make decicions. In practical terms this is not very problematic as 86% of Norwegians are members of the church and so far the number of members of government who are members of the church have alwas well exceded half. In principle it is more problematic, but it seems stranger than it is when it is pulled out of its contecst. The intent isn't to keep members of other religions out of government. Inge 13:49, 27 March 2006 (UTC) (Nor is its intent to exclude atheists or syncretists, for that matter, one might add. =J // Big Adamsky • BA's talk page 13:57, 27 March 2006 (UTC))[reply]

Thank you. That makes sense. The Established Church in the UK has tended to count its membership higher than a more detailed enquiry arrives at but I expect that is unavoidable. The move to disestablishment would presumably, as in the UK, cause constitutional changes and losing that provision might be one of them. Is Norway the only country in Europe/N. Europe that still has such a provision in its (written, as one document) constitution? If so that might be worth bringing out as a difference, which is encyclopaedic, for anyone who tries to learn about the country by reading this article rather than the many other things written about it. Midgley 01:11, 29 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Norway is, as far as I know, the only country with such a demand of its cabinet. krikkert (Talk) 06:36, 18 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It would be nice if someone could verify this for certain. If Norway is the only country in the world with this demand I will be very surprised. Inge 13:37, 18 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I know countries like Lebanon and others demand certain percentages of different religions in their parliament or equivalent to avoid sectarian conflict. Other than that, I can't think of anything. Either way, this is hardly a controversial issue, and anyone I ask seem to be ignorant of it. Joffeloff 23:15, 10 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

editing the talk page

eddideigel writes: (→A Theocracy? - clarify context + rm some irrelevant and indiscreet remarks - feel free to revert, but this does not belong here) Please do not edit the talk page! Change the articvle itself, but DO NOT edit the talk page --Vindheim 17:43, 27 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Very well. But I would like to add: Please keep indiscretions and personal conflicts out of the article talk pages. This is seriously disturbing. Even this thread does not belong here but at my user talk page. Not that I don't like public criticism, but it is not relevant to the article at hand. I would like to ask you to move this thread to my talk page. Thank you. --Eddi (Talk) 13:47, 28 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Climate data

I'd say that this box should be removed in favour of a) Climate of Norway or b) shorter notes on average temperatures. Ehjort 16:26, 11 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The complete lack of response inspires me to do what is consider the best solution (something along the lines of removing most of the climate facts from the geogrpahy section and link to Climate of Norway) in about a week's time. Ehjort 16:02, 8 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Or just link to climate, with more extensive data coverage. Orcaborealis 16:08, 8 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Culture of Norway

I will work on a better entry for Culture of Norway in the Norway article; one with less links and more text and not only a listing of famous norwegians but hopefully something about Norwegian culture.Ehjort 16:29, 11 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah and where the hell is the info on Black Metal? 144.131.139.111 05:15, 2 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Counties of Norway

Is is necessary to list all 19 counties in the Norway article? Not even the Subdivisions of Norway article includes the whole list. The Norway article should be as much text and as less tables and lists as possible. Ehjort 16:32, 11 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Definitely, I can't see USA without its list of states. It would just look silly without the counties. Henning 17:38, 17 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I agree, but I don't think the listing of the ten argest municipalities is necessary in the main article. There's already enough listings. (please sign, use four ~)Ehjort 19:36, 15 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, forgot the signing. ;) In any case, if not to include the ten largest municipialities, there needs to be a link to the Municipalities of Norway, which I took the liberty of including on the bottom of that section (in about the same manner as with the counties-section, where in the end it links to the Regions of Norway). I must say, I was amazed to find that more or less every single municipiality has an article! Henning 17:38, 17 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I suggest we merge the list in question into the Municipalities of Norway article. The main article shall of course include a link to Municipalities of Norway. )It is fascinating to see the coverage for our municipalities, I think Norwegians feel alot for their hometown however small it is) Ehjort 14:12, 18 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

That sounds like a very good idea, will you do that? I should get about to update some of the Finnmark municipalities sometime. First I shall translate no:Eina as requested. :) Henning 12:18, 23 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It is done. Thumbs up Ehjort 18:03, 23 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It seems we willl have to get used to just that, Henning - USA without its list of states. It is gone by now. Ehjort 16:53, 8 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I would like the list of fylker (counties) to be set in two columns but I ain't got the know-how. Ehjort 16:57, 8 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Norwegians can´t spell

Why do Norwegian banknotes say NORGES BANK on one side and NOREGS BANK on the other? Is this a subtle Nordic-type joke, or can´t Nowegian central bankers spell? Adam 19:40, 13 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

we can spell, but we can't agree on how our language should be. There are two official forms of written Norwegian, Bokmål and nynorsk. The banknotes have different versions on the two sides. (I never noticed that before).--Vindheim 20:13, 13 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. Which version do they use in Bergen, where I just was? Adam 20:23, 13 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Although the prevalence of Nynorsk is higher in the western parts of the country, it's not possible to say that they only use Nynorsk or Bokmål in any one place. Which one you use can often be a political statement. I recommend reading the Nynorsk and Bokmål articles if you're interested. --Nnp 20:31, 13 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Bergen is 95% bokmål, maybe more. Kjetil _r 00:32, 27 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It isn't easy to get it right everytime, though. I think the Nynorsk in my father's passport was misspelled. ;) 惑乱分からん 12:24, 5 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

This research

"This research was done by graduate students of NTNU and researchers at SINTEF in Trondheim [7]."

i think this should be deleted. Ehjort 09:10, 24 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Rollo was NOT from Norway

Norway wasn't even in Normandy in the viking period. Norwegians were only settlers on north England, Ireland and Iceland.

Rollo was from Denmark - Zealand. He was a son of the danish king. And became the first king of Normandy after the Invasion of the land.

Well there are differing sources on that subject. Many support Rollo being from Norway and Norwegians being present in Normandy and it seems that is a prevalent view among scholars Inge 16:24, 31 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

What are these sources??? There is no sources, only a man from Iceland who had a name likely Hrolf. with was a common Nordic name that time. The Sourches only come from iceland/norway because they want to claim as much fake history as they can. Norway didnt conquered England either. It was King Canute from Denmark. Where do you else think Danevirke and Danelaw is from?

"Dudo states that Rollo was born of the proud blood of dukes and kings, and that his father was a mighty man in Denmark whose sons Rollo (Hrolf) and Gurim (Gorm) inherited his lands after him. As the King of Denmark at that time wanted to evict a portion of the youth of the country owing to overpopulation, many sought refuge with Rollo and Gurim. The King marched against them with an army and killed Gurim, while Rollo fled to Skaane. From there he sailed to England to King Athelstan, by whom is meant the Danish King Guthrum (Gorm) in East Anglia who, at his baptism, had been christened Athelstan. He supported Rollo and it is not unlikely that kinship existed between them. Later Rollo sailed to Walcheren and fought for many years in the great army in Friesland and northern France until he subdued Normandy in 911. That Rollo was the head of this undertaking also supports the theory that he was a man of noble birth.

Norwegians was just a bunch of setlers in the viking age. Who peacefully setled in Iceland, North England and Ireland.

Saying that makes it obvious that you are pushing a subjective POV. See for instance: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Stamford_Bridge

Battle_of_Stamford_Bridge. 1066? Result: Decisive English victory.

I think you misunderstand. It was ment as a (well known) example as to how Norwegian vikings were not just peaceful setlers. Which they certainly were not. Though many were, of course.

Norwegians founded Dublin?

Although there was a Norse settlement in the area which nowadays is Dublin it would be wrong to state that the Norwegians (or any Northmen) founded the city as such. They did have their own settlement - from which the English name is taken, however there was a celtic settlement there beforehand - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Dublin for more details. The same is true for Cork. In fact one could say that the vikings destroyed more of this city than built it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cork Limerick is said to have had a celtic settlement before the vikings, though most accept it is a viking city and Waterford was indeed founded by the vikings.

I propose we reword the history of Norway section pertaining to the viking age. Bikerams 18:36, 20 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. Some of the history seems like a long Pro Norwegian POV. At least the edit's from user:Inge. --Comanche cph 10:00, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Comanche cph: Please don't spread slander on wikipedia. Your history here speaks for itself. Inge 15:12, 28 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It seems like allot of your edits here has been reverted, not only about me. So come with your sources now about this, instend start spreding a flame war to camoflage your wrong edit's. --Comanche cph 17:51, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Your statement is taken out of thin air. I am willing to give any editor the benefit of doubt. I will however expect an improvement in behaviour if I am to take someone seriously. You have been here for some time now and I have seen slim and temporary if any improvement in you. Myself and several other editors have tried to guide you towards what is axceptable behaviour. In stead you have carried on in the same track on article after article. You know what you have to do and I hope you are aware of the actions you take. If you want to be taken seriously and want other editors to spend their time answering your "questions" you will have to comply to wikipedia policies. I have also answered you on your talk page. Inge 18:16, 28 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

This is amazing. Where is the sources for what User:Bikerams wrote? Behaivor is one thing, rewrite of history pages is anorther thing. --Comanche cph 18:25, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Did they even settel in Ierland for more than a few years?--86.25.53.90 00:43, 25 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Bunad

Could somebody help me understand why a bunad "may be traditional or not traditional costumes". I'm a tad confused by the opposition.Bikerams 08:04, 31 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

As far as I know, only traditional costumes are granted status as bunad. Ehjort 18:35, 31 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, present day bunader were reconstructed from traditional elements from the 1920s on. A semiofficial committee, Bunad- og folkedraktrådet,[[5]] has the power to accept new designs for bunader. However many traditional style costumes which are not officially classed as bunader, are used as if they were such. --Vindheim 19:23, 31 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, I understand it somewhat better now, only I'm left with the question how that section of the article can be re-worded because, as it stands now, it's not logical - "traditional or not traditional", doesn't really work. Bikerams 20:03, 31 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

inconsistency

Religion claims 89% are members of the protestantic church. Demographics claim 86%. Both numbers cannot be rigth. Any number is suspect anyway, because the protestantic church of Norway has been counting by starting at 100% and subtracting known members of other churches. This obviously gives over-reporting. Eivind 13:14, 31 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. The number tells nothing about what people believe in, and should be removed. I don't think giving an explanation about the high number would gain anything either, except that that it could be useful to show how much power the state church has. (No user name) 02:02, 29 October 2006 (+1)

Well, I added an explanation anyway. Hopefully, no one just removes it. Seems like some people here have an agenda to make norway seems less secular than it actually is... [User:(No user name)|(No user name)]] 17:30, 1 November 2006 (+1)

The most recent statistics claim that 82,6% of Norwegians are members of the Church of Norway.

Finnish speakers in the North

During the nineteenth century considerable numbers of people from Finland moved into Norway, especially in the North , but also in southern areas ("Finnskogen"). There have also historically been considerable intercourse between the "three tribes": Finns (Kven), Saami and Norwegian in this area. Some communitites in eastern Finnmark (Vadsø, Bugøynes etc.), have until recently had a majority of Finnish speakers.--Vindheim 14:41, 2 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

vandalism

Because the page is more or less vandalized on a daily basis, is it not an idea to protect it in the same way as the page about the Swedish language (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_language) is? Bikerams 14:53, 14 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I almost think it's a good idea. Is there no way to blovk the vandals? and, is the article vandalized by one or many IPs? Ehjort 18:32, 14 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It's not vandalised enough to warrant protection really, but you can ask for it to be protected at WP:RFP. Only administrators can protect pages. HawkerTyphoon 12:14, 15 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Date of Seperation from Sweden ...

The current article reads "the peaceful separation of Norway from Sweden on June 7, 1905." The September 23 article lists 9/23 as the date the two countries were officially seperated. I believe one or the other should be clarrified. Can anyone speak to which one?

The Norwegians declared themselves independent of Sweden on June 7, and the Swedes, slow as always, recognized it on September 23.

Whaling

Whaling is mentioned in Economy section, but not in main article Economy of Norway. And maybe a seperate Whaling in Norway like Whaling in Iceland is needed? - Kristod (talk) 11:23, 23 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Geography section seems to have gone out of the window

Any reason for this or just vandalism?? Orcaborealis 11:59, 24 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Looking for Home

My family name was Andersen before my great grandfather and his brothers emigrated to the US where they took the name Molvik. Molvik was the name of the farm from where they came. My understanding is that the farm is on the west coast of Norway where the Arctic Circle intersects the mainland. Does anyone know of this area or know where I might find more information? The area is very rural, thus it had been difficult for me to find information. Most web searches point me to a Molvik that is at the northern most tip of Norway. Thanks in advance! Patris Magnus 02:19, 9 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Being a particular farm you are asking for, it's hard for Norwegians who don't have specific knowledge of the place or farm in question to answer. I do wish you good luck, though, and hope that somebody comes up with anything.

As you might guess, the amount of farms and farmers in Norway can't even compare to back when your great grandfather left Norway. If I'm to be pessimistic, it might well be that your family farm is long deserted or merged together with another farm, it's name not in use anymore. I think your best chance is to look up Norwegians sharing your name of Molvik. Though they're likely to be unrelated, your family adopting the name in the US, it might just well be that they happen to take their name from the same farm. (According to Statistics Norway, there are 433 people with the surname of Molvik in Norway.)

In fear of having been to pessimistic and unhelpful, I tried some searching. Searching for Molvik gård (where gård is Norwegian for farm), returned Some pictures from farms in Rygge, where some of them depict one Molvik farm. Though this is in Rygge, which is not on the west coast nor anywhere close to the arctic circle, but rather slightly east of Oslo.

Do you know any further details about your home farm? In Norway, the arctic circle passes through the municipalities of Træna, Lurøy, Rødøy and Rana. Though I guess you probably should look in close by areas also.

You might also try the Wikipedia:Reference desk, where Wikipedians try to answer general knowledge questions. I hope others are able to help you more than I have. Delta Tango • Talk 05:45, 9 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The "wrong" one for your purposes is mentioned in the Berlevåg article.

Your searches probably also would found "Mølvik" spellings, but what you are looking for might actually be "Målvik" or "Melvik" or some similar spelling.

Try Oluf Rygh's Norske Gaardnavne (Norwegian farm names) at http://www.dokpro.uio.no/rygh_ng/rygh_form.html where Molvik in the farm name turns up just one in Sondre Bergenhus amt (today's Hordaland) which is too far south for your description. The % sign is a wildcard in that search, and note that this is a fairly old book using "aa" spellings rather than å.

Mølvik only finds one in the Oslo area, a couple of Melviks in Troms. Try Maalv% too, the "aa" as used in his book, now written as "å", is pronounced somewhat like an o, and was often spelled "o" by immigrants to English-speaking countries, these are probably more likely than the Melvik ones

Gårdsnr Gård Sogn Herred Amt

72 Maalvik Vassaas Bindalen Nordlands amt

Wikipedia also has an article on a Vassås Bridge, matching that parish name. Keep in mind not only the possibility that your ancestors changed the aa to "o" in English, but also that many spellings in Norwegian have since your ancestors came over. Look for -vig rather than -vik in many earlier sources, etc. Mark the boxes in the Oluf Rygh database listing that you are interested in, then click the "Vise" box for more detailed quote for that farm (in Norwegian, of course), usually giving something about the meaning of the name, spelling variations over time, etc.

Try your searches again for "Maalvik" or "Målvik". If you have names of ancestors living in Norway in 1801, 1865, 1875, or 1900 you might also be able to search for them in online census records, but the names will likely be just given name/patronymic, and the patronymics changed from generation to generation. Your "Anderson" immigrant ancestor and his siblings may have had a father named "Anders Larson", for example. Gene Nygaard 13:00, 9 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Taking the name from the farm you lived on was very common in Norway. I also believe it wasn't uncommon to change the spelling of one's surname upon immigration to America. For what it's worth I have met people living in northern Hordaland with the Molvik surname and that fits in with the information on a Molvik farm there, but as stated above that is not in Northern Norway.Inge 13:25, 9 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for your help. I'm pretty sure that it is this one:

Molvik (farm), Rødøy kommune[6]

My father, who has been there, described passing a mountain lake on the way down to the farm. I'm now sure that it is in Rødøy kommune. Thanks again Patris Magnus 21:05, 9 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Geirangerfjorden & Nærøyfjorden

Geirangerfjorden & Nærøyfjorden have been rated 1 and 2 in National geographics rankings for the most beautiful places on earth, shouldn't this be mentioned?—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Yakoob (talk • contribs) .

The Geography section is currently pretty short, and I don't this is what it needs the most right now. --Turbotape 22:31, 10 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

What is wrong with the name of Capital, Largest City, King and Prime Minister? The two first are wrong, while the two others are pure nonsense! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 83.109.149.26 (talk) 21:29, 16 November 2006

Languages

"The official national language is Norwegian bokmål and nynorsk. Additionally Sami is a co-official language in six municipalities and Finnish in one other."

What is the municipality that has Finnish as official language? I was not able to find one by browsing articles here. Does it mean the variant of Finnish, kven language? --Pudeo (Talk) 21:30, 3 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The municipality in question is Porsanger. Whether they use a Kven standard or the Finnish standard I do not know, but if I had to guess it would be the former. Nidator 14:31, 17 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I think it is unnecessary to list all the third languages (C-språk) being taught in the language section. Maybe only the three third languages most taught should be mentioned here. (German, French and Spanish). Tridungvo 13:39, 1 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Area?

Why is Svalbard and Jan Mayen not included in the area in the infobox? This is an article about the Kingdom of Norway and Svalbard and Jan Mayen is part of the Kingdom of Norway. Even the UN includes them. The number for the mainland that is used is wrong in any case and looks like the number that excludes lakes. The total area is somewhat larger. Here are the correct numbers from Statistics Norway (in Norwegian): [[7]]. I will change the number and anyone who disagree can explain why here. (Nidator 09:52, 10 January 2007 (UTC))[reply]

I agree. This is also the number used in List of countries and outlying territories by total area ranking Norway 61st. Inge 10:53, 10 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Good! I have used the UN number. The number from Statistics Norway is actually a little larger as Norway has grown. No doubt the UN will get the new number with time and I thought it would make sense to wait for that so the two pages stay in sync. Nidator 11:13, 10 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Nice work. A sub-point: I feel like I've missed something critical here. I know the economic zone grew a bit last year. When, how and where did the land area of Norway grow? Inge 16:10, 10 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I saw it in this article: [[8]] Nidator 18:50, 10 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The same article, as evident for those who read Norwegian, defines the lower number as the area of Norway. Svalbard and Jan Mayen are not part of Norway in quite the same way as the rest of Norway is (see details of the Svalbard-treaty etc. in the article on Svalbard. Therefore, they are usually not included in the area of Norway in Norwegian reference works.--Barend 21:41, 10 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

That does however look to be a rather informal use of just the name Norway ("Norge"). The article from Statistics Norway ([9]) correctly includes Svalbard and Jan Mayen in the number for the Kingdom of Norway ("Kongeriket Noreg") and this is an article about the Kingdom of Norway. The Svalbard Treaty does contain certain stipulations with regards to the area, but beyond that the it recognises the "...full and absolute sovereignty of Norway over the Archipelago of Spitsbergen..." and Svalbard forms part of the Kingdom of Norway. Jan Mayen is not subject to the Svalbard Treaty and also forms part of the Kingdom of Norway. With regards to reference works I would also like to point you attention to the UN Demographic Yearbook ([10]) which includes Svalbard and Jan Mayen in addition to listing them separately. Nidator 10:32, 11 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. Most people in casual conversation uses the name Norway for Mainland Norway and Svalbard for Svalbard. But when it comes to what is and isn't Norway I think we should base that on more certain things. The number including Svalbard and Jan Mayen is the correct one for the Kingdom of Norway. It seems the small increase I was asking about is due to a new and updated measuring.Inge 11:19, 11 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think it matters which numbers are used. The main point is that a footnote specifies whether or not it includes Svalbard and Jan Mayen. This seems to be the approach in every atlas I have seen.CBadSurf 15:22, 11 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Demographics

There have been numerous edits of the demographics section lately. These edits have shortened the section, but the English constructs have not been entirely clear. I have reworked it in what I consider clearer English. This is longer than the previous edit, but more accurate English. For example, I changed

Baptism, marriage and burial are rites where the state church have strong traditions, and many are members only to use these ceremonies. Moreover, many have found themselves being counted in the members registry even after manually withdrawing their membership.

back to

The Christian rites of passage such as baptism, marriage and burial have a strong traditional standing in Norway, and many people are members to be able to use these ceremonies in spite of not being regular churchgoers or believing in the teachings of the church. It is possible to withdraw from the Church of Norway, however, a number of Norwegians have found themselves still being counted as members even after officially disassociating with the church.

The second is longer, but much clearer. Especially the fragment "...and many are members only to use these ceremonies" has to be read several times to get its intended meaning. "are members" could possibly be changed to "remain in the Church" and give clearing meaning.

The sentence "Moreover, many have found themselves being counted in the members registry even after manually withdrawing their membership." is also problematic. Most readers will not be aware that there is a "members registry" and thus not understand the context. Also, you cannot "manually withdraw your membership." You can cancel membership, but that would not be the normal construct in this case. It would be either to "disassociate" or to "leave."

Any comments? CBadSurf 08:26, 12 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I don't see the necessity of most your edits. The previous version was shorter and therefore faster to grasp the meaning from. Can you explain why you think the sentence with Baptism, etc. is clearer now? If "...and many are members only to use these ceremonies" are the only passage you have trouble with, you should instead rewrite that exact passage, and not change everything back to previous version.

Regarding the membership sentence, you changed it into a monster. I guess you have a point, but your version should be rewritten. I'll look at it later.

And finally, I wonder what was the point of reinserting the word "Norwegian"/"Norwegians" everywhere, when its obvious from the context that we are talking about norwegians? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.203.78.199 (talk) 11:04, 12 January 2007 (UTC).[reply]

There are many ways this could be written, but my point was I changed it because the English didn't flow well. This was the reason that Norway and Norwegian were added. It sounded like it was written by a non-native speaker. And this is fine, but we have to be open to constructive criticism and updates. In terms of it being faster to grasp the meaning just because it is shorter, I don't agree with you. I found it very difficult to understand as it was written. CBadSurf 18:36, 12 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I reworded the section. What do you think of this? CBadSurf 18:48, 12 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Norwegian gold during WWII

What did Norway do with their gold during WWII? As a child, I read a book that was probably at least partly a work of fiction which had the Norwegians smuggling their gold to the US. How much truth was there to that? Could it be added to the WWII part of the history section? Will (Talk - contribs) 06:27, 1 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The Norwegian government was able to take the gold from the national bank with it, as it fled out of Oslo in 1940. It was shipped to the U.K. During the preceding months, the gold from the national bank of Denmark, had been secretly transferred to Norway, where it was shipped to the United States with help from the bank's Norwegian colleagues. The Norwegian gold was later transported from the U.K. to the United States as well. {Source: Lidegaard, Bo: Dansk Udenrigspolitisk Historie, vol. IV, 356-7). Both countries had empty vaults when the German troops arrived to inspect them. As I heard the story years ago, the Norwegian crown jewels were forgot during the evacuation but they were never seized by the Germans and survived the war. An evacuation of the Danish regalia were never attempted and they too survived the war. Valentinian ^{T / C} 08:33, 1 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Exports

you are missing the amazing band Green Carnation here. Someone please edit and ADD this to the wiki ASAP SniperSarge 22:49, 11 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The royal motto

Is "all for Norway" a good translation for "alt for Norge"? Shouldn't it rather be "everything for Norway"? In any case, that's what it really means, but "all for Norway" might be an official translation for all I know. "Alt for Norge" means that the king (who has selected his motto) will be prepared to do anything and sacrifice everything for his country.

I hope someone can answer this. --Tannkremen 00:12, 16 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The phrase "All for Norway" is used on www.kongehuset.no but - sorry to say it - the English version of the King's official bio is so poorly translated that I'm not sure if the English translation of the motto has any recognized standing. It might simply be an error in translation. Valentinian ^{T / C} 00:19, 16 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I hope someone whose mother tongue is English will comment on this. Personally, I think "All for Norway" sounds like the best translation. "Alt for Norge" is, as I read it, a shortened version of the statement, "Jeg vil gi alt for Norge", which I think translates best as "I will give all for Norway". But my mother tongue is Norwegian. Any native English speakers out there with an opinion?--Barend 19:12, 16 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I'm a native speaker of English and I think "All for Norway" sounds just fine and has a nicer ring than 'everything', it's also the most common version you will find on the vast majority of websites and also on memorials that have both Norwegian and English on them. Additionally, if you look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_mottos_of_Norwegian_monarchs you will also finded it listed as "All for Norway"

Therefore I believe "All for Norway" is the official translation, it's also shown as "All for Norway" on other wikipedia sites as well, thus it is silly to have it translated as "Everything for Norway" on just this one entry.

Though "All for Norway" sounds closer to "Alt for Norge" and is the official translation (is it really?), it is a poor translation. It sounds closer, but does not convey the meaning "alt" conveys. "All" in English generally conveys a meaning in terms of completeness in quantity (Are you all going to the cinema?), where in Norwegian "alt" conveys a meaning of completeness in quality and effort (I would give everything for you). This is best translated "everything." CBadSurf 15:42, 21 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

"All for Norway" is a better line. But it is a terrible translation, and CbadSurf explains very well why. "All for Norway" makes me think "everyone for Norway", while "alt for Norge" really means "everything for Norway". Literally. If there really is an official translation, then so be it. If not, this little piece of information is actually false, and should be corrected. Which sentence has the nicest ring, is irrelevant. --Tannkremen 17:10, 19 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Oil exports

Citation from the article: " Only OPEC members Saudi Arabia and Russia ..."

This is factually incorrect? as Russia is not an OPEC member. InArm 16:10, 21 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I have corrected the error and reworded it to make it less confusing. If anyone sees need to edit it further be my guest.

Shogyou Mujou 00:13, 26 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Location maps available for infoboxes of European countries

On the WikiProject Countries talk page, the section Location Maps for European countries had shown new maps created by David Liuzzo, that are available for the countries of the European continent, and for countries of the European Union exist in two versions. From November 16, 2006 till January 31, 2007, a poll had tried to find a consensus for usage of 'old' or of which and where 'new' version maps. Please note that since January 1, 2007 all new maps became updated by David Liuzzo (including a world locator, enlarged cut-out for small countries) and as of February 4, 2007 the restricted licence that had jeopardized their availability on Wikimedia Commons, became more free. At its closing, 25 people had spoken in favor of either of the two presented usages of new versions but neither version had reached a consensus (12 and 13), and 18 had preferred old maps.
As this outcome cannot justify reverting of new maps that had become used for some countries, seconds before February 5, 2007 a survey started that will be closed soon at February 20, 2007 23:59:59. It should establish two things:

whether the new style maps may be applied as soon as some might become available for countries outside the European continent (or such to depend on future discussions),
which new version (with of without indicating the entire European Union by a separate shade) should be applied for which countries.

Please read the discussion (also in other sections α, β, γ, δ, ε, ζ, η, θ) and in particular the arguments offered by the forementioned poll, while realizing some comments to have been made prior to updating the maps, and all prior to modifying the licences, before carefully reading the presentation of the currently open survey. You are invited to only then finally make up your mind and vote for only one option.
There mustnot be 'oppose' votes; if none of the options would be appreciated, you could vote for the option you might with some effort find least difficult to live with - rather like elections only allowing to vote for one of several candidates. Obviously, you are most welcome to leave a brief argumentation with your vote. Kind regards. — SomeHuman 19 Feb 2007 00:28 (UTC)

"the King's political influence is real"

The Politics section claims the King actually has influence when there is no clear majority in Stortinget. This is very far from the truth for all following Norwegian politics closely. What happens in such occations, is that the leaders of each Party represented at the Stortinget get together for discussions, leading into a suggestion formally handed over by the President of the Stortinget. Since 1905 the proposals have always been accepted by the King, and any other outcome will most likely lead to constitutional crisis. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.196.214.14 (talk) 16:43, 22 March 2007 (UTC).[reply]

It's an interesting subject: we are getting into politicial research here though, and we are not supposed to. Also, I'm not the man for it. :-) But I'm often surprised by the eagerness poltical books claims the king has _no_ power. He has got a "being there" kind of power, as advisor to the (formal) advisors, and some legal books accepts this. Hence, his influence makes the polticians play nice. Also, if the politicians stopped agreeing about the rules, the power would easely end up with the king. Historically, Haakon the 7ents intervention in 1927 when he gave power to the labour party may have been the king using power in such a situation. OK, this being very possibly OT... Greswik 15:05, 25 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

As far as I know, the king of Norway has the right to appoint the prime minister. Stortinget (the parlament) can only reject the prime minister and his government, and has no right to appoint them. Formally, the king decides who will be prime minister, when the former prime minister resigns or is thrown down by Stortinget. The king also has a veto right, which Haakon VII used once, during WWII. So the king has his formal power, whether he finds it necessary to use it or not. I agree with Greswik. --Tannkremen 16:59, 19 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Very funny...

OK, some smeghead has erased the entire article and replaced it with the single word "poop". I'll see if I can revert it or something (I'm kinda new at this). And if this jerk's identity is ever revealed, please ban him/her. Omega Man 23:43, 10 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

-- and I see that this idiot has done the same to other articles. Think you're anonymous ? Your IP address is listed in the page history, idiot!

Peacekeeping

Ought include information regarding Norway's infolvement in peake brokering and peacekeeping missions. There already exist articles concerning the Sri Lanka Monitoring Mission...a Norwegian project. The Norwegians have also been involved in the Middle East, Guatemala, Colombia, Ethiopia, etc. --King ravana 18:23, 14 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

hey wats up yo

Very nNPOV!

> Freedom of religion is enshrined in Article 2 of the Constitution, which also establishes the state religion as "Evangelical Lutheran" <

This is contradiction. If there is state-endorsed religion then there is no freedom of religion. Freedom of religion is both a positive right (unalienable right to practice) and a negative right (banning the privilegization of any church). The U.S. Bill of Rights says this very clearly and that is grandfather of all and any notion of modern freedoms.

The fact that at least half of government ministers must always be luthorans limits the freedom of religion of politicians (which group is a clearly identifiable minority among the population), since not all of them can be e.g. buddhists or followers of Manitou, even if they all want to.

Here in Hungary pre-WWII law specified at least 2/3rd of all university students must be christians (in order to suppress jewry intelligentsia, but this was covered up with alternatve token reasonings) and that was condemned as a crime against humanity after WWII. I can't see how a "numerus clausus" on norwegian ministers to be half-christians is basically different.

In order to be NPOV, the article should at the very least state that freedom of religion is half-hearted in Norway: it is guaranteed as a positive right, i.e. almost anybody can practice as he/she wishes, but trumpled on as a negative right, because one church is "more equal" than the others.

> Norway is ranked as the most peaceful country <

This is bullshit, to be very mild! Ad 1., Norway has yankee nuclear bombs stationed at its soil. You can't preach water and drink wine.

Ad 2., It was the very fact that in 1983 Norway allowed american Ohio class ballistic missile submarines to patrol under its territorial waters, which forced the USSR to hastily introduce a "nuclear suitcase" based ICBM launch authorisation system for sub-10minute mutually assured destruction response. This did not exist previously for lack of need. The urgency of implementation, owing to suprise norwegian decision, made the soviet system unreliable and that at least twice brought the world to very edge of WWIII due to false alarms. The soviets made great strides to calm the norwegians and offered them a lot in order not to make this escalating step, but they completely latched onto Reagan's militant conservative agenda, which can be called anything but peaceful.

Ad 3., Norway is part of NATO, a military organization, which does operate outside of its defence domain. In contrast Sweden is neutral and its prosperity is not based on sitting atop oil and gas wells, but industrial labour and infotech (Volvo, Saab, Ericsson, steel industry).

The article is very biased towards Norway, which is a niche country, its geopolitical and natural resources situation is very different from the world average and therefore it should not be proposed as a model for the "rest of the world", as it is simply impossible to follow. 81.0.68.145 19:24, 11 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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"the King's political influence is real"

Very funny...

Peacekeeping

Very nNPOV!