Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard

Welcome – post issues of interest to administrators.

For urgent incidents and chronic, intractable behavioral problems, use Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents. If you are new, try the Wikipedia:Teahouse instead. Do not report breaches of personal information on this highly visible page – instead use Wikipedia:Requests for oversight. For administrative backlogs add {{Admin backlog}} to the backlogged page; post here only if urgent. Do not post requests for page protection, deletion requests, or block requests here. When you start a discussion about an editor, you must leave a notice on their talk page. Pinging is not enough. You may use {{subst:AN-notice}} ~~~~ to do so. Sections inactive for over three days are archived by Lowercase sigmabot III.(archives, search) Start a new discussion

Current issues

Username issue

I came upon LSDisGood4theBrain (talk · contribs) while on new user patrol. While this doesn't seem to fall within the hard-and-fast rubric of WP:U, it would seem to me that common sense dictates that usernames promoting drug use are clearly not suitable for Wikipedia. I warned him with {{username}} and he's continued editing ... could some one have a look? Thanks. Blueboy96 12:01, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

list at WP:RFCN. Rlevse 14:50, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

I would have done so, but seeing as it's up for deletion ... Blueboy96 15:21, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Seeing as it's already blocked, don't list it. Mangojuice^talk 15:07, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps it is promoting a controversial point of view, but the reason "promoting drugs" is not a good one. 1 != 2 15:08, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

I'd have to say LSD is good for the brain would be a controversial point of view. Luigi30 (Taλk) 12:53, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Proposal to begin a Wikipedia:Disruptive editing/Noticeboard

I propose to create a new noticeboard to help editors understand, comply with, and enforce the disruptive editing guideline. We already have specialized noticeboards like WP:BLPN, WP:COIN and WP:RSN. These work well to help editors get assistance applying those guidelines to real cases.

With the demise of WP:CSN, more cases of suspected long term abuse are heading to WP:ANI, often unformed and poorly explained. The lack of evidence and organization prevents the community from taking proper action and places the suspected editors in an uncomfortable situation. A specialized noticeboard for discussing suspected cases would help filter out frivolous cases, and would generate proper evidence for those cases requiring community attention. With the help of editors experienced in the WP:DE guideline, those requesting assistance would be much better prepared to file a request for community sanctions at WP:AN or WP:ANI.

This new board would not have any special powers. It would simply be a centralized place to discuss specific cases of long term disruptive editing. I've created Wikipedia:Disruptive editing/Noticeboard as something to look at, discuss, and edit. - Jehochman ^Talk 17:01, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

How does this interrelate to WP:RFC/USER? Addhoc 17:24, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

The discussion board is a place to talk about suspected cases. It's focus is education, explaining to editors what is and is not disruptive, how to avoid being disruptive, where to go with specific cases and how to present them. We might send people to WP:RFC or WP:RFAR or WP:AN/WP:ANI. Our users are often confused about how to navigate these situations. The board would provide guidance. - Jehochman ^Talk 17:44, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Ok, are you intending to update Wikipedia:Disruptive editing#Dealing with disruptive editors? Addhoc 19:51, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Yes, if there is a consensus, that section could start with "Suspected cases of disruptive editing may be reported at Wikipedia:Disruptive editing/Noticeboard" and we'd make some other changes. I'll propose new wording at Wikipedia talk:Disruptive editing. - Jehochman ^Talk 20:15, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Since nobody has expressed any concerns yet, and I just came across an interesting case of possible disruption, I've posted that case to the noticeboard. Please have a look because a real case may illuminate what this board can do. If anyone objects, we can move the case to WP:ANI. I have no problem with that. - Jehochman ^Talk 03:24, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Quick question. How is this new noticeboard any different in purpose from the recently deleted Wikipedia:Community sanction noticeboard? This seems very similar to a replacement for that page. Yahel Guhan 03:32, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

It does smell like WP:CSN in slightly new clothing (or, to use an opera allegory, in a big hat); perhaps some assurances of how it differs are required. Otherwise we should shut it immediately. ➔ REDVEЯS isn't wearing pants 08:07, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Ah, sod it. Sent it to Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Wikipedia:Disruptive editing/Noticeboard. ➔ REDVEЯS isn't wearing pants 08:33, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, we may as well discuss it now because a keep decision would effectively be an endorsement of the board. The big problem with WP:CSN was that it was a little corner of Wikipedia where we discussed banning people. The argument was that community banning discussions should be help in a high profile place so everyone could see, so we decided to move that activity to WP:ANI. WP:DEN board is completely different from WP:CSN because it specifically has no power to ban anybody. It's merely there to help clarify suspected cases of WP:DE. Editors often don't understand how to handle and where to go with such cases. It's useful to have a central place where those experienced with this guideline can discuss cases with less experienced editors. The operation of specialize boards, such as this one, as well as WP:COIN, WP:BLPN, and WP:RSN, to name a few, help keep WP:ANI from becoming even more cluttered with poorly formed cases. - Jehochman ^Talk 11:22, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

No worries. But we may as well discuss it on the MfD rather than starting forest fires here. ➔ REDVEЯS isn't wearing pants 12:02, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I agree. - Jehochman ^Talk 12:22, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Request for outside views on administrative action

(moved from WP:AN/I)

A little history. I ran across Homeopathy and blocked whig for edit warring. Then I posted a warning on the article talk page. After the warning, SM565 Orangemarlin SM565 Orangemarlin began to edit war again. After 2RR, I blocked both editors , Orangemarlin (talk · contribs · logs) and Sm565 (talk · contribs · logs) for disruption. After that, OM's block was challenged and Neil (talk · contribs) unblocked.

Because I disagree, and I am apt to repeat this behavior, by warning editors and doing short term blocks on those who perpetuate. I would like a review. Relevant notes are in the archives of Orangemarlin here and Neils page here and my page here.

Thank you for your time and attention. Mercury 16:41, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

I'm inclined to think that it would have been a bit better to have short-term protected the page rather than using targeted blocks. Though it prevents further edits by others to the article for the length of the protection, it forces discussion and resolution (hopefully) rather than the antagonism that might be released because of a block. I don't have a problem with how you handled the situation, but I'd suggest that only after ≥3 reverts might a block be a good idea, and then consider: our blocking policy is to prevent damage to Wikipedia, not punish edit warriors. Nihiltres^(t.l) 17:14, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

I think you handled the situation perfectly well. If our intention is to to prevent damage to Wikipedia, it is much better to block disruptive edit warriors, than to protect a page. Your block of 12 hours was not harsh, and came on the heels of a clear warning to stop edit warring, after which even a single revert would have clearly been disruptive. Isarig 17:28, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

There is no excuse for continuing to carry on with disruptive behavior after being warned. Mr.Z-man 20:12, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Context should be taken from the discussion on Talk:Homeopathy, as I fear Mercury isn't telling the whole story. It was pretty evident the single purpose account Sm565's insistence on an NPOV tag remaining on the Homeopathy article was both disruptive and against consensus, and Orangemarlin's only "disruptive" editing was to remove it, twice. A block for Orangemarlin was absolutely out of proportion and out order, and I am surprised Mercury is so keen to bring his poor judgement up again.

If our "intention is to prevent damage to Wikipedia" (actually, our intention should be to make a better encyclopaedia), perhaps we should not spank well-intentioned editors, risking losing them from the project. Particularly those in good standing, with a (previously, now) clean block log and thousands of good faith edits. And especially after this arbitrary "2RR" and no direct warning (the vaguely worded warning was on the talk page, not OM's talk page). If you felt an edit war was underway, rather than block more and more editors, you should have protected the article for 24 hours, or stepped away and let someone else handle it. The fact you suggest you are "apt to repeat this behaviour" is the real concern. Neil ☎ 21:48, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

The reason I suggested the review, was for my "aptness". This shows I am concerned for what the community as a whole thinks. The fact that I am open for review should eliminate the real "concern", I hope. Mercury 22:14, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

And I'll admit, I'm being succinct, but I would have hoped by linking the relevant areas, I would be telling the whole story. Mercury 22:15, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Mercury, I would suggest you disengage from this dispute; the fact you want to re-apply a bad block is concerning. Addhoc 22:26, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Disengaged. But I still reserve the right to comment in this thread. Additionally, I did not state that I would reapply the block in question, read the whole sentence... "by warning editors and doing short term blocks on those who perpetuate". Regards,Mercury 22:32, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

The block of Orangelmarlin was a bad block. Full disclosure, I voted against your RFA. That being said, one bad block doesn't mean you should lose the mop. Let this go, learn from it, and move on. AniMate 02:02, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

• After seeing these online comments, and getting offline comments, I made a bad block. Orangemarlin, I apologize. I'll do better in the future. Mercury 00:59, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Community ban

What happened to the community ban link that used to be at the top of the admin boards? Has there been a change? I know of a case that will likely be there soon, or it's descendant form. This is a case dealing with multiple editors on several related articles. It needs to be a process with teeth, something enforceable.Rlevse 13:35, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

That page was retired. The separate ban page was decided to be a bit too isolated, and ban discussions should now go back to WP:ANI. - TexasAndroid 13:44, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

That's a trend now. Too much stuff is going to be on ANI soon and it'll be a mess. Then what exactly is the disruptive editing page for? I don't get a warm fuzzy from reading the page itself.Rlevse 14:01, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

I think the 'soon' and 'going to be' ships have already sailed. The 'Episodes' thread there has been going since September 30 (and will go at least another 48 hours since a comment was left today), and the top three ('Episodes', 'Prester John', and 'PR') take up nearly 2/3 of the board. It should be renamed /Confrontations or /Brawls. KrakatoaKatie 15:23, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

See the Wikipedia talk:Administrators' noticeboard#CSN gone, redirected to wrong place? thread for an ongoing discussion. All this redirection to ANI is a stupid idea in my opinion. It's already over-bloated and can only get worse.--Isotope23 ^talk 15:43, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Totally agree all this stuff going to ANI is silly. Rlevse 16:57, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

If someone has done enough to deserve a community ban, they would usually be guilty not of having caused an "incident", but of a long-term pattern of bad behavior. Doesn't that mean that this board would be more appropriate for discussions of community bans than ANI, which is overloaded anyway? Cardamon 18:34, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Not necessarily. The problem here is that too much is getting moved here. Community, check the Mfd on RFCN, etc and so on. Rlevse 20:05, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

• Why don't we move those threads to subpages, and make an "on-going issues" infobox at the top/side linking to them? Seems like a good idea too me; we could do that for all threads which last for longer than a week. --Haemo 20:44, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
  • Be smart, use subpages, etc. Any section over 50kb should be moved to a subpage, and a link in the old section should be made to point to the subpage. —— Eagle101^{Need help?} 02:18, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

A question about admins involved with articles

I hate to "tell on someone", but User:Zscout370 was heavily involved in a debate on Comparative military ranks of Korea, siding with parties that the insignia pictures were invalid where others claimed they were. He was directly involved with editing the article, but now has taken to deleting all of the images using his powers as an admin to support his views. The debate was also far from over, as I had contacted several sources trying to get the matter resolved. I reviewed Wikipedia directives and it clearly says admins shouldnt get involvoed in deleting things in which they were directly involoved with as an editor. If this is true, ZScout acted without authority [1]. Please clarify and again, this isnt to get him in trouble, only to ask a question. -OberRanks 14:12, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Were the images tagged with a delete tag first or did they meet speedy delete criteria?Rlevse 14:23, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Some of them were, some of them weren't. Two users found them on a website and called them "copyright violations" yet when I made long distance phone calls to the Army and Navy in Korea I was directly told they were the original publishers. The Navy then logged on and offered to verify this through a navy.mil account [2]. ZScout became involoved in the debate and then choose to ignore everything I said and simply started deleting the images before the debate was over. I dont think that was right and it did make me upset espeically since I had made the sacrifice to call Korea and get this thing worked out. I'm sure he meant well and will adhere to WP:AGF and WP:CIV. I just think it was against Wikipedia policy what he did. -OberRanks 14:27, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

i've asked him about this and to respond here.Rlevse 14:37, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

In the meantime, can we undo the damage's he's caused and undelete those pictures? I am very concerned about the junior enlisted insignia, which is nothing more than 1-4 colored bars on top of eachother, ineligable for copyright with some of the images he deleted not even appearing on the website where they were supposed to have been "stolen" from. He also deleted all of the South Korean general insignia, directly verified with CNFK as generic officer insignia public and free, and wiped out the entire Marine Corps enlisted section. The North Korean insignia do appear to have been taken from the website, I can live with that; but I am back to my original problem that admins shouldn't go deleting things in articles which they are personally involoved in editing, for sure not when the editing is disputed or when they are engaged in a debate with someone. -OberRanks 15:33, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

I think this discussion may be relevant here. KrakatoaKatie 15:29, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

This comment should also be looked at. [3]. I believe it violates WP:AGF and it is interesting that ZScout claimed no proof was provided after a U.S. naval officer offered to e-mail another member of the debate to verify that what was being said about these images was in fact correct [4]. I am sorry to get so hot, but this thing is really upseting me after my hard work to resolve it through the proper channels. -OberRanks 15:43, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Regarding the rank insignia images, a word about the commercial website http://www.uniforminsignia.net is in order...I ran across it while trying to clean up and update licenses on images utilizing the deprecated {{Military-Insignia}} template. The website, which exists based on donations, apparently creates GIF images of worldwide military insignia based on official descriptions of those insignia. The quality and consistent appearance of the insignia has apparently led a lot of Wikipedia editors to use those images to improve the appearance of our articles on military ranks...this linksearch shows images attributed to them on the English Wikipedia, and this one shows they are all over the Commons as well. The hundreds of images in those linksearches are only the ones that have been properly attributed...there are many, many more that have apparently been taken from that site without attribution. For example, look at this page on uniforminsignia.net, and compare the South Korean naval ranks at Image:RokNavCapt.gif and Image:ROKCmdrBrds.gif, which were formerly in this section of the Korean rank article (the one that is in dispute here)...the file format is identical, the file size is identical, the appearance is identical - only the filename has been changed.

The website claims copyright on the images it creates. As mentioned in the ANI thread linked by KrakatoaKatie above, the copyright claim may or may not be valid in 100% of cases. However, users with copyright expertise, such as Quadell, have made the point that the claim could be valid. In addition to the legal issues, it is morally wrong for us to take the images created by that site and use them ourselves in a fashion which is in direct competition with their commercial purposes.

Also, I am reasonably certain that OberRanks (talk · contribs) is a reincarnation of Husnock (talk · contribs), given the fact that OberRanks pretty much exclusively edits articles created or significantly edited by Husnock. This is not a violation of WP:SOCK; the Husnock account is inactive. But dubious and unverified copyright permission claims, and bad image sources, were a Husnock problem (as shown at User:Durin/Husnock images) and Husnock was cautioned about image copyright issues at Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Husnock. Videmus Omnia ^Talk 17:55, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

There was also a game going on a few months back where a number of accounts were all accussed of being Husnock, some of them posting from various corners of the globe. That is a game I don't want to play. I suggest we leave any of that stuff out of this unless there is a clear violation of WP:SOCK. Also we should review WP:VANISH before we start bringing charges of other users being an alternate account of a departed user. -OberRanks 00:05, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

This is a copyright policy issue, not a content dispute. Zscout isn't accused of using his admin powers to push a POV or have an article read the way he wants. He is simply trying to enforce Wikipedia's copyright policies -- a laudable goal. OberRanks says he has spoken with members of the US armed forces who have apparently told him that the images on Wikipedia (and therefore those on uniforminsignia.net) are US armed forces versions of the Korean insignia (insigniae?). I am uncomfortable making copyright determinations based on somebody's say so. Perhaps OberRanks could obtain a copy of these insignia as produced by the US armed forces so this information can be verified. Or, as I have suggested, someone could contact uniforminsignia.net and ask them to license their insignia so we can use it. Because even if the official insignia themselves are in the public domain, the artistic rendering of the insignia created by uniforminsignia.net is most likely a creative work of authorship entitled to copyright protection. There may be non-free content issues as well, if the underlying insignia are subject to copyright. Either way, this is a copyright policy issue and should probably be addressed at WP:FUR or WP:MCQ, not here. -- But|seriously|folks  19:08, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

I'll back Zscout, alot of these images in this area are sadly lacking data on the source of the image. See the image problems mentioned at Template_talk:SouthVietnamWarMedals#Other_images. IF someone would like to, I'd suggest tagging the lot of those as unsourced. —— Eagle101^{Need help?} 19:45, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

I don't have a problem with these images being deleted; in fact the NK insignia DO appear to have been directly taken from that webpage and should go. I am also in the process of getting the insignia replacement that the military claims to have. I just don't think ZScout himself should have done the deleting since he was directly involoved in the dispute and edited the article to suit his views. -OberRanks 00:05, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Since I was the one who was discussing this with you, it would be easier to just delete these myself. Unlike the other users, I do not believe OberRanks is the sockpuppet of Husnock and it is not my place to assume. Regardless, Ober does know about the uploads Husnock has done and I explained to him plenty of times that many of that user's uploads are either being deleted now or later. If you feel strongly about it, then a checkuser could be tried. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return Fire)} 01:54, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Another problem, the images at [5] were taken from the website [6]. I am honestly getting ready to the point where all images uploaded by Husnock should be mass nuked and we can either restore or recreate. How does that sound? User:Zscout370 ^{(Return Fire)} 02:16, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

I'm not wild about mass nuking because of the possibility of collateral damage (i.e., deletion of perfectly good and valuable images), but I do think that user's uploads should be carefully scrutinized for images that fail our current upload standards, with a hair trigger on the alt-D. -- But|seriously|folks  03:07, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Deleting every image that user uploaded would seriously destroy several articles about military ranks, medals, and badges. Of course, that has already happened since 4/5ths of the images on Template:SouthVietnamWarMedals were deleted without explanation. Two of them I was personally involoved with investigating the Public Domain claim, these being the Vietnam Gallantry Cross and the Vietnam Campaign Medal. This entire affair has led me to believe that admins can pretty much do what they want and bend the rules when it suits them. We will see what happens when the government insignia chart at last is posted, but with the way things went here I am sure someone somewhere will challenge it, say its not real, or that someone isnt telling the truth. I repeat that my anger at this situation (which I apologize for) was mainly due that I was working to resolve the issues at hand, making phone calls to other countries, and meanwhile admins simply said images weren't free and deleted them. Its a lesson learned that we need to surround images with such iron proof and I guess thats what will have to be done. -OberRanks 09:29, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

This feel on deaf ears I guess, as User:Butseriouslyfolks is mass deleting every image uplaoded by this user wuthout discussion. A lot of the images did have problems, but some of them were legitimate. I dont think a single admin ahd the authority to delete all of these images without discussion. But, I gues sif he really did steal all of these images, he had it coming. -OberRanks 10:43, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

While not updated, [7] can provide us with hints. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return Fire)} 03:27, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

I reviewed some of those images and there are many problems, the biggest being that alot of them appear to have been taken from the Army IOH and Randolph Air Force Base. But, there is the additional twist that I know the National Archives has a duplicate database of images which they control. I guess we could start over and delete the majoprity of the medals and badges images. A lot of the German/WWII info looks okay, but I'm not an expert. My one serious concern: I see there are several personal photos of that man which I think should be speedy deleted. The use rhas left Wikipedia and random pictures floating around on the internet, of which the subject doesnt have control over, can be badly misused. I would add speedy delete tags myself, but I have already been pointed as being connected to this man, if not the man himself, so I feel any action on my part would be misunderstood. -OberRanks 09:29, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

I also began the process to draw some of the images. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return Fire)} 05:40, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

That is good, this matter appears closed. I tried to remain civil and adhere to good faith, if I was lax then I am sorry. A very frustrating situation but it seems like people aren't going to see my side of ti that some of those images were really not copyright violations. I guess they can all be reuploaded when people have time. -OberRanks 09:29, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

It is just early uploads being applied with today's cluestick, that is all it is. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return Fire)} 15:43, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

There are two related DRV nominations on today's log. GRBerry 17:23, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Protected edit request on Template:Film

Would be very grateful if someone could implement this immediately. I've been changing over tags for WP Filmmaking, since they've joined WP Films as a task force when we expanded our scope, but unfortunately I forgot to change the template text to reflect the new project scope, so it's led to confusion amongst several editors. Many thanks! Girolamo Savonarola 19:16, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Done. NCurse _work 21:02, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, got one more edit I'd like to see addressed immediately. Thanks again! Girolamo Savonarola 14:58, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Martinphi-ScienceApologist opened

An Arbitration case, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Martinphi-ScienceApologist, has been opened. Please add any evidence you may wish the Arbitrators to consider to the evidence sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Martinphi-ScienceApologist/Evidence. You may also contribute to the case on the workshop sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Martinphi-ScienceApologist/Workshop.

On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, David Mestel^(Talk) 15:12, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Difficult to tag users images for deletion when his talk page is protected

Hello, as the administrators do not encounter this kind of problem, I thought maybe they hadn't noticed the following :
Sometimes a user's talk page gets protected because he is blocked but vandalising his own talk page. This makes it difficult to request some of his images be deleted, as a user must always be warned before any deletion process may go forth. Normal level users have to use WP:RPP which is a bit silly. I'm not sure what can be done though. Jackaranga 16:05, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Do you not see the absurdity of what you've just asked [8] on RFPP? "Please leave this indefinitely blocked user these messages informing him of changes he needs to make to these image pages... which, oops, he can't do because he's indefinitely blocked" is roughly how it goes. On a side note, it is not the case that a user must always be warned before their uploads can be deleted. In this case no warning is fine. – Steel 16:13, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

There is an error in assuming that the user needs to be notified. There is no such requirement anywhere regarding deletion, or it needs to be removed if it has snuck in. Notification is a courtesy, done because the original contributor may know more and be able to solve the problems and because it leads to a better collaborative environment. In this particular case, those reasons don't apply because they can't solve the problem and they aren't here to collaborate. GRBerry 22:07, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

On a couple of the image tags, it says something like "deleted 7 days after the user is informed or 14 days in total". A lot of people take the word "speedy" literally and find the idea of waiting 14 or whatever days for a speedy deletion that must be done now painful. I would think that's why notification to a banned user is wanted - it would cut the deletion time down. All a bit pointless, really. ➔ REDVEЯS isn't wearing pants 08:14, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

If the user is banned, then I think we can forgo the warning. If another editor wishes to have the image restored due to new Fair use rationale or source, we can deal with it at DRV or at the deleting admin's talk page. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return Fire)} 08:17, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Caribbean~H.Q.

Why is this administrator not allowing me enough time or space to finish editing a page before reviewing my changes? I have asked him several times to desist reverting my changes to Wikipedia until I am finished editing the page. However he just keeps threatening and intimidating me.

I will not make any changes to the Wikipedia (I suppose it is a preserve of a few elite administrators) until he explains his attitude issues here. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.163.34.220 (talk) 20:25, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

I explained to him the reason behind the revert of a ovious violation of WP:NPOV (see here) in a edit summary, wich got promptly responded with a directpersonal attack on my talk page, following that I responded to that personal attack by telling him to read WP:NPOV and WP:NPA on his talk page, wich got anwsered with yet another personal attack both on a edit summary and his talk page, I'm not interested in continuing communication with this user so I told him to post this here so someone else can explain policy to him. - Caribbean~H.Q. 20:31, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

With regard to the point of letting you finish editing a page - there is no such right. As soon as you hit save what you have written is both recorded and liable to be edited... by anyone. There is a template (I've not seen it recently, so perhaps someone will link it) that comments that the article is being worked upon, but that is not binding and is voluntary. Would you perhaps like to comment on Caribbean H.Q.'s comment about inappopriate responses to their action, and why you feel that their review of your subsequent edits was unjustistified? LessHeard vanU 20:50, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

{{inuse}} — Dan | talk 20:55, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. LessHeard vanU 21:22, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Alkivar opened

An Arbitration case, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Alkivar, has been opened. Please add any evidence you may wish the Arbitrators to consider to the evidence sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Alkivar/Evidence. You may also contribute to the case on the workshop sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Alkivar/Workshop.

On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, Picaroon (t) 21:26, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Wikirage now in Spanish

I added the Spanish Wiki to wikirage. Portuguese as requested will be next. w3ace 21:41, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Move of discussions on WP:ANI

I've taken the largest two discussion and created subpages. Its too long to load and the page is unusable. Mercury 22:12, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

I suggest this above, so I naturally approve :) However, I think adding some kind of headlining section "on-going incidents" that is not automatically archived would be a good idea. We don't want to ship these threads off to the great blue yonder without some way to point new people to them. --Haemo 03:02, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Is someone going to remember to manually archive these new subpages when the time comes? The bot won't get them. Something to consider, instead of moving threads to subpages, is to reduce the bot archiving timeout still further. (The timeout is now 24 hours for ANI). EdJohnston 03:53, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Sub pages can be archived in situ: they can stay in the same place. We should archive links to the subpages. - Jehochman ^Talk 04:12, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

GallifreyanPostman, indefinitely blocked

I indefinitely blocked GallifreyanPostman (talk · contribs) for ongoing disruption. I noticed his page blanking] of Microsoft Office Communicator, and started reviewing his contributions which I invite others to do. I'm not against this block being given an expiration time so if other's would like to review by all means please do. Keegan^talk 23:28, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

A little history here. This ID has a history of good edits interspersed with occasional juvenile vandlaism. After an earlier indef block, the user claimed that there were actually two people involved, brothers. The good edits were from the proper owner of the account, the vandalism from a brother who would hop onto the first brother's computer, bring up the logged-in WP account, and proceed to vandalize. This explanation earned an unblock. I was then watching the account, and the pattern continued, so I started giving inceasing blocks after the vandalism, and stern warnings on the user's talk page that, assuming that there were two people involved, the first brother had to prevent his sibling from vandalizing, one way or another, or the account would soon find itself indef blocked again. In June, when I reached a 1 week block, I issued a "last chance" warning. Any more vandalism from the account after the week's block would result in an indefinite block. I watched closely for the next couple of months, and there were only good edits. I stopped watching as closely, and apparently at some time recently the vandalism resumed, and Keegan made good on my last chance warning. I thus reluctantly endorese this block. Reluctantly, because I would be similarly reluctant to have indef blocked him myself if I had caught the resumption of vandalism, though I would have still done the indef block. There are good edits from the account, but they are not IMHO critical enought to outweigh putting up with vandalism from the same account, one person or two. - TexasAndroid 17:11, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Earn a cookie!!!!!

I'll award a cookie to whoever closes this. -- Jreferee t/c 23:56, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

clearly a "no consensus" – Gurch 00:00, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

I closed as delete all. Frankly, the "keep" arguments are very weak. I expect the love/hatemail and drv notices and the "you're an idiot" notes. Maxim_{(talk) (contributions)} 00:13, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

A hearty "endorse deletion" from me. Good close. Carlossuarez46 02:11, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

All have already been recreated as redirects. - TexasAndroid 17:00, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

I don't see anything wrong with that. -Chunky Rice 17:01, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Just that the official outcome was Delete, not Redirect. But I'm not jumping into the middle of this myself, just posting information. - TexasAndroid 17:12, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Why can no one who cites WP:CRYSTAL ever be bothered to read it? It doesn't say "delete all articles on any future events", despite what admin Maxim says in the closing... --W.marsh 22:59, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Undeletion

Hi. Can someone restore the subpages of User:Qxz/Redlinks for me? I think I may have come up with a use for them. Thanks – Gurch 00:01, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

done. Viridae^Talk 00:07, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Er... I said the subpages :) – Gurch 00:40, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Hmm. is there an easy way to find sub pages? Viridae^Talk 00:48, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

See Special:Prefixindex. hbdragon88 05:18, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

(ec) What are they? The names of the subpages, I mean. :) — Malcolm (talk) 00:50, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Never mind, they're in Qxz's deleted contribs. — Malcolm (talk) 00:52, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Thanks – Gurch 01:01, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

OK, now it's done. — Malcolm (talk) 01:05, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Erroneous blocking

I did a horrible thing and blocked two newbies, at User talk:Revo1nyc and User talk:RodrigoMarro, both for vandalism to the Intro page, without stopping to think. I apologized to them and will not bite another newbie again. Bearian 00:50, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

And yet you passed RfA without issue, whereas Gracenotes was beaten into a pulp. (Not a personal attack, just an observation) – Gurch 01:16, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

So cool! (Sorry! This is the first time I've seen an admin contrite for their actions... :-) --Iamunknown 02:08, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Three "Hail Jimbos" and go and sin no more. :-) We all make mistakes (well, all except me. :P) Carlossuarez46 02:12, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

(Hmm... I should note that this isn't the first time... it just seems to be a rarity. --Iamunknown 04:29, 16 October 2007 (UTC))

This user has done nothing but inappropriately advertise his band

Resolved

[9] look at every single edit, they all involve advertising his band.Hoponpop69 01:26, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

4 days ago. Blocks are preventative. —bbatsell ¿? ✍ 01:29, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Exactly. — Thomas H. Larsen 02:28, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

John_van_v actionable conduct

John van v has written and posted a long personal attack on Eleland three times. (diff of attack text) I have removed the offensive content three times. I've written a polite note/warning at User talk:John van v, where I found that John_van_v has also posted the attack. Further, assuming maybe that Eleland deleted his attack, John van v made the following threat against Eleland (and arguably Wikipedia): "If he, deletes this text, I will post about him and the so-called Nativist, or anti-nativist group, on the Usenet, along with writing about the defeat of soft security at Wikipedia by the anti-nativists savants of the Nativist group." (emphasis added) Though a sporadic user, perhaps we should treat John van v as a newbie unfamiliar with our policies? That wouldn't be my inclination. In any case, since blocking may be warranted and I'm working on another dispute involving Eleland, would an admin please step forward to monitor and handle the situation? Thanks very much. HG | Talk 15:37, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Sysop.js

We've recently "discovered" a MediaWiki page that provides additional user js for users if and only if they are in the sysop group, at MediaWiki:Sysop.js. It currently contains only a script that adds an "invert selection" button to Special:Undelete, but it is possible that other scripts could be added, including a current proposal to add ^demon's deletion autoreason script. Since this affects all sysops, it may be of note. Nihiltres^(t.l) 16:47, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Since this is javacode that affects all sysops, it is obviously a high risk page. Many code knowledgable admins (in which group I am not) need to watch this page. GRBerry 17:06, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Yikes. I don't like this at all. I love scripts, and use lots of them (including demon's deletion reason script), but forcing all admins to load them, artificially altering the interface without their consent, isn't a good idea, especially since even well-written scripts can easily crash browsers (especially older ones). If you want to use a script, add it to your theme.js. —bbatsell ¿? ✍ 18:33, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

To disable loading sysop.js, add window.disableSysopJS = true to your monobook.js. — Edokter • Talk • 20:42, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Frown. Is that guaranteed to work in all browsers? The check's made in Common.js, which is loaded before user javascript. —Cryptic 20:52, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

How about adding something that if you try to delete the main page or block Jimbo will automatically add a message to ANI saying, "hello, I am a compromised account"? In all seriousness, that may be a little off the wall, but something stopping you from unblocking yourself might be beneficial, both to stop compromised accounts and non-compromised ones. --B 20:54, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Um... can this be an "opt in only" thingy, because I got lost somewhere between the second and third line. I only took on adminship because I understood "mop", "buttons", and "Are you sure you wish to reformat your hard drive? Default = NO". LessHeard vanU 21:19, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Huh, I took the mop for the $1,500 that gets deposited into my checking from a numbered account in the Caymans on the 3rd of every month. Keegan^talk 05:49, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Folks, this is nothing new at all, we have had common JS for a long time, notice how you can add a page to your watchlist without reloading it? If you are concerned with what is there then watchlist it, and contribute to the consensus there. If something is buggy it can be removed or fix. 1 != 2 02:14, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/DreamGuy 2

This arbitration case has now closed and the decision may be found at the link above. DreamGuy is subject to a behavioural editing restriction. For the arbitration committee, David Mestel^(Talk) 17:27, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Austin_Lonestars

Will someone close this AfD, including its related group of articles listed, as Withdrawn. I am withdrawing my AfD for them but can't find any procedure for withdrawal so I'm assuming an admin has to do it. Thanks. -- ALLSTAR ECHO 18:12, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Thank you Andrew. -- ALLSTAR ECHO 18:20, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

I had closed this as withdrawn by nom. However, a user brought it to my attention that they wanted at least 2 of the articles deleted, so instead of making them relist, I have simply undone my closure and reopened the AfD. Sorry for the confusion.-Andrew c ^[talk] 22:19, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

It doesn't matter that another user wants them deleted (I'm assuming it was User:Jreferee). I nominated them for AfD and have since withdrawn the nomination. It should be closed. If that other user wants them deleted, then he or she can re-AfD them. That only makes sense. The AfD only had 2 participants besides myself as the nom, that being a question from someone and then User:Jreferee's Deletes/Keeps to the respective group of articles in the single AfD. With only one person actually having cast any consensus opinion, participation in the AfD to the point where my withdrawing the AfD would be inconsistent with others position is impossible and this AfD should be withdrawn, as requested by me who nominated it in the first place. -- ALLSTAR ECHO 22:39, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

I'll draw your attention to Wikipedia_talk:Deletion_process#Withdrawing_a_nomination. Please, if you want, strike through your nomination and mark at the bottom that you want to keep the articles, this way the closing admin knows where you stand now. However, the discussion is active and shouldn't be closed prematurely. -Andrew c ^[talk] 22:53, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Thanks Andrew. However your reference is to someone's opinion on a talk page and isn't official since I don't find it listed anywhere in the actual official Deletion process. If your reference is indeed policy, then it shouldn't be on a talk page but rather it should be on the official policy page. No? -- ALLSTAR ECHO 23:01, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Alternatively, I could ask you for an official policy that states that you have the right to withdraw nominations (which you said you couldn't find in your first post). I imagine if we allowed nominations to be withdrawn after discussion had started, it could lead to problems, especially at CfD, where regularly someone lists something to be renamed and it may end up being deleted. Anyway, hopefully someone else watching this page can comment here so we can have a third opinion. As it stands, I personally do not intend to close this debate early, and if the final outcome is not to your likings, you are welcome to take the matter to WP:DRV. Sorry again for all this confusion.-Andrew c ^[talk] 23:22, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

It's not a matter of the outcome being to my liking. Thanks for not assuming good faith. Based on the reason I opened the AfD, that being because of Malmö Devilants having been up for AfD then under Deletion review and ultimately reversed from deletion. I could understand if it was an issue of people wanting AfD's closed because of not liking the apparent outcome but that wasn't the case in this matter. It was a case of if Malmo Devilants were to be deleted, then so should the others.. since Malmo Devilants wasn't deleted, nor should the others be because they are all similar articles with all similarities of lack of sources and such. Therefore, again, it should be closed as Withdrawn. -- ALLSTAR ECHO 00:09, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

I apologize. I wasn't trying to drag this out further or antagonize you. I guess my intent wasn't clear in my last post. I do not wish to continue discussing this, so I'll try to pass the hat. Are there any admins here willing to close this AfD early? Why or why not? Thanks.-Andrew c ^[talk] 01:02, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Andrew c is correct. Once someone agrees to deletion, we don't close AFDs as withdrawals. The closest thing to it in writing is the second bullet of WP:DPR#NAC, but that is standard practice. The other person's delete argument has an equal right to be heard and evaluated as your original nomination. It would be overly bureaucratic to close this AFD and force the person who believes it should be deleted to open a new one. Simply cross out your nomination statement and add a keep recommendation as to why you think it should now be kept. -- JLaTondre 01:23, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Total and utterly ridiculous. If I open something, I should be able to withdraw it. But whatever... -- ALLSTAR ECHO 01:55, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Blocking spammers

I ran across 3 user pages that were contained typical spam e-mail messages about winning the lottery and making easy money. I deleted the user pages and blocked the users. The users were CARLOSJGARCIA (talk · contribs · global contribs · logs · block log), Alds jaja (talk · contribs · global contribs · logs · block log), and Andrew chester (talk · contribs · global contribs · logs · block log). All three users had only made a single edit, and that was posting the spam on their user page. I know deleting the pages was not controversial, but should I have blocked them? One account hadn't been used in a year, one hadn't been used since February, and the last from August. None are currently active, nor have any good faith contributions. Should I have warned them instead of blocking them? I just wanted to run this by other users.-Andrew c ^[talk] 18:25, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

I don't think a warning is necessary for spam-only accounts of that ilk. Don't make the mistake I made and auto-block the IP. Bearian 18:43, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

I believe I did leave the auto-block IP box checked. I am going to be away from the computer for a bit, so I will fix it later (or a bored sysop could fix my folly and I would be in their debt).-Andrew c ^[talk] 19:54, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Ok, fixed the autoblock. I'm still willing to hear if anyone disagrees with the blocks. If not, I'll consider this matter closed.-Andrew c ^[talk] 23:50, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

I have no problem with a block of a spammer. If their only contributions are spam, then they aren't interested in contributing, they just want to get their product across. That's not what the people who support WP donate for so I say block them. If there are other contributions then I would warn so as not to bite by accident, but if it's all spam I have no sympathy. James086^{Talk | Email} 00:04, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Pic of minor

Resolved

 – Thanks, android of Texas. --Ali'i 19:24, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Could someone help me decide if this pic is appropriate: Image:Retard.jpg. it's an unreferenced photo of a minor that was inserted into the Mental retardation article. I wouldn't have said anything except that it is a minor and could be a potential issue in that regard. --DanielCD 18:37, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Doesn't look appropriate anyway. I'm sure a proper picture of a mentally retarded person could be found. This looks vandalism to me. —Wknight94 (talk) 18:40, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

I have put a db on it based on the name which is a personal attack, SqueakBox 18:40, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

I'd definitely keep it out of the article in question. And it's unsourced, so I'd probably seek for the image to be deleted entirely from the project... (unless it is a self-portrait for the uploader's user page). But even then I'd force a re-name. Most likely it is speedy deleteable as an attack image. Mahalo. --Ali'i 18:41, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

On a side note: is there a reason we don't just salt this image name: [10]? I mean, if we want a picture, we would at least upload it under a less-derisive name. Mahalo. --Ali'i 18:44, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

That might be a good idea. --DanielCD 18:47, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

I was going to propose salting as well, looking at the deletion history.-Andrew c ^[talk] 18:50, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Totally independant of this discussion (found the image because the page it was dropped on is in my watchlist for exactly this type of thing), I have deleted the image as an attack image, and already salted the file name as it has been deleted similarly as attack images 8-10 times previously. Enough is enough. - TexasAndroid 18:53, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

I think that might have been the german kid that wen't off tap at his computer and smashed the keyboard. Viridae^Talk 06:02, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Jak3m (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Suspicious account. I was RC patroling using Lupin's filter, and I saw it adding a link to "petitiononline" to Blackout (Britney Spears album). The term "petitiononline" is a flagged term. You may want to check it out.--Avant Guard 20:05, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

89.172.198.53 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log)

User from this account constantly keeps defacing and vandalizing Vrlika and Kukar. Worst is that he/she deletes whole sections, changes whole sections to his POV and deletes "citations needed" entries. Please address. Kukar 20:53, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

I note that the "talk" link is red. Should you not try asking for their reasons? LessHeard vanU 21:22, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Yes, sections which you added and which are obvious POV. This was emphasized to you more than once and by more than one user, yet you continue your little edit war. Deleting historical references, sources and info is vandalism, not revert of such vandalism. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.172.193.65 (talk) 21:28, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Mmmmm... bit slow tonight, but I've just noticed a similarity between article and complainants username. I think that this appears to be a content dispute, the only point for admins to consider is the appropriateness of the username - given the articles edited. LessHeard vanU 21:52, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

I don't know who is right or wrong here, but the IP user has been editing those article under similar IP addresses in the past, which may make it look like several users support his point of view. This is the hard thing when people don't register and use dynamic IP addresses you can never engage in a conversation with them, because they won't even see they have a message on their talk page. Jackaranga 09:19, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Move Template:Soviet zones of occupation back to Template:Soviet occupation

Resolved

User:Dojarca nominated Template:Soviet occupation for deletion here: Wikipedia:Templates_for_deletion/Log/2007_October_4#Template:Soviet_occupation, however the result of the debate was Keep/no concensus. Within hours after the closure of the debate, User:Dojarca has moved the template twice [11], [12] without any concensus. Clearly this is a controversial move and a concensus should have be reached first. However User:Dojarca edited the re-directs so it is not possible to undo the moves. Could an admin assist in moving the template back to its original title and clean up the redirects, and protect it from further moves until an adequate discussion for any potential moves is conducted. Thanks. Martintg 23:06, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

I moved the template back. Please contact the user regarding establishing a requested move for the page. Keegan^talk 05:33, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

And Dojarca moved it once again. -- Sander Säde 07:49, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

I've protected the template temporarily. There is virtually no discussion on its talk page. You should discuss it there. DrKiernan 08:18, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Why did you protect it without moving it back where it was before one sided moves!?--Alexia Death the Grey 08:19, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Protection policy: "pages protected in an edit war are protected in whatever version they happen to be currently in. Protection during an edit war is not an endorsement of the current version. Editors should not ask for a specific version of a page to be protected or, if it has already been protected, reverted to a different version. Instead, editors should attempt to resolve the dispute on the related talk page." DrKiernan 08:24, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

One sided move is not an edit war. Thus rules of edit waring do not apply. However, I you have made your decision to endorse this name as I see, so...--Alexia Death the Grey 09:16, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

I agree, this is not an edit war, but a move initiated by a person whose nomination for deletion failed and thus is contrary to the outcome of the TfD, which was Keep. Unless ofcourse DrKiernan is claiming that Dojarca's reverting the action of an uninvolved admin User:Keegan is edit warring, but then in that case the appropriate action would be to block Dojarca, not protect the template. Martintg 09:35, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Martintg, I seen no discussion on the talk page that people oppose the moving. Neither I was notified. Please refrain appealing to admins before discussing issue on the talk page.--Dojarca 08:28, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

The result of the TfD, which closed hours before you moved the article, was Keep, so obviously there are many people opposed to the move, there was plenty of discussion during that deletion debate. Martintg 09:18, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

It was no consensus for delete (only because your mob of POV-pushers votes). Move was not discussed there. Wikipedia is not democracy. If we need enforce neutrality, we do not count how many POV-pushers agree.--Dojarca 09:40, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

User:Kaihsu

See the bottom of his userpage:

Copyright © 2003/2007 Kaihsu Tai. Moral rights asserted on all original contributions.

Someone may want to explain to this editor that he cannot assert moral rights or copyright on any of his contributions. 68.214.75.69 23:44, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

I would delete it. Anyone esle? Bearian 23:49, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Delete the page or just the copyright notice? I think that since this is an active, good faith contributor we should be cautious about how we approach this in order not to offend or turn off the user. A polite note explaining that when Kaihsu clicked "saved page", they were "agree[ing] to license your contributions under the GFDL" should be a good start.-Andrew c ^[talk] 00:54, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Lists of African Americans (2nd nomination)

Hi, I'd like a review of this AfD. Did I do this properly? Did I close it too early? Bearian 01:10, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Yes, you closed it early. AfD generally stay open for 5 days. Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Old will list the dates that are ready for deletion. Looks like you were 25 hours too early. It wouldn't have hurt to waited it out. -Andrew c ^[talk] 02:17, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Anyone got 15 minutes spare for WP:NPA?

I wonder if someone wouldn't mind popping by to WP:NPA for 15 mins or so to review the talk page, and the policy page, and offer their conclusion as to whether or not a disputed section should remain or be removed? Assistance wound be greatly appreciated. Thank you. Privatemusings 05:55, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Truthiness on WP:TFA

Will someone think of the elephants? Titoxd^{(?!? - cool stuff)} 06:41, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not censored for the sake of elephants. 1 != 2 06:43, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

reality is now a featured commodity--victor falk 07:40, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

User:Rbraunwa

I have just received an Email that Rbraunwa has passed away on 14th October. Can anyone verify, has anyone else received this email as well? Gryffindor 08:58, 17 October 2007 (UTC)