Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents

Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents
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Possible sockpuppet of Cute 1 4 u

Hello I believe that this user New York from Flavor of Love may be this indefinatly blocked user Cute 1 4 u. Check this dif [1] and talk page Leroyencyclopediabrown for the possible proof. If I'm wrong on this I appolize in advance but Cute 1 4 u does have a history of sock puppet and ban evasion. Æon ^{Insanity Now!}_EA! 02:14, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

In addition I once I commented on that user being suspicious the comments that were made by New York from Flavor of Love were removed. Æon ^{Insanity Now!}_EA! 02:20, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

I'm not an admin, but this looks somewhat similar (Cute 1 4 u did once create an account impersonating Raven Symone). I'd file a RFCU. --Coredesat talk. o_O 02:33, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

I thought about it, thanks I will should I post the findings here or will not not be needed? Æon ^{Insanity Now!}_EA! 02:34, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Any findings in the RFCU should probably be posted here unless it comes back positive and she's indef-blocked right then and there. But it looks somewhat definitive, looking at the user's edit history. --Coredesat talk. o_O 02:39, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Thanks Coredesat. I caught one of hers last week and the writing style is VERY similar to here other socks. I will post the finding once they come in. Æon ^{Insanity Now!}_EA! 02:43, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

The account *could* be blocked per WP:USERNAME I think... "New York" was in fact the nickname given to a real contestant on the first season of Flavor of Love (generally only the nicknames were used on the show) and thus this name more-or-less falls afoul of the "Names of well-known living people" clause. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 04:57, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

After looking at the userpage and what BoG said, I decided to issue the username block. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return Fire)} 04:59, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Is it just me, or does anyone else find it absurd how much people-power is being thrown at stopping an alleged 11 year old female sockpuppeteer from "abusing" Wikipedia as a social network? --  Netsnipe  ►  04:56, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

I take it from your use of quotation marks that you disagree with the characterization of social networking as an abuse of Wikipedia? Choess 06:05, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Well, based on this diff and the message the most current IP placed on Leroy's talk page, it's definitely her. She thinks she can hide stuff by deleting it. Ryūlóng 06:07, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Hi, just call me Ed.=) I apologize to everyone who has been trying to contact me overnight. I (obviously) was sleeping. Anyway, I think that Cute 1 4 u should be given one more chance. Two reasons for this. First of all, she doesn't have to keep making new accounts just to prove her point. Second, it removes the hassle of blocking EVERY SINGLE account she makes. We all know she's going to make more and more accounts.--Ed^{talk c E} 12:58, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

I disagree, she was blocked for Sockpuppet abuse, impersation, Vandalism and the 11 year old part was just added ammo to the case. And the Check user came up possitive. Æon ^{Insanity Now!}_EA! 18:35, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

New York from Flavor of Love and 75.34.176.105 have both been blocked indef as sockpuppets, although I thought that IPs shouldn't be blocked indefinitely. Was there an exception made? --Mr. Lefty _{Talk to me!} 18:38, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

You know that she's going to make a new account anyway! What's the point for all of this hassle? This is a complete waste of our time! If we just give her a second chance on Wikipedia, less time for us working on her case, and one more volunteer Wikipedian.--Ed^{talk c E} 02:41, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Cute 1 4 u welcomed Starcare, who is likely a puppet of Publicola, who is likely a puppet of Pepsidrinka. Hard punt. Lots of socks involved here.--Scribner 03:15, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

You see? The situation's getting worse. The only solution is to back off or get more admin power.--Ed^{talk c E} 03:27, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Scribner obviously has something against Pepsidrinka, so I'm taking his comments with more than a pinch of salt. – Chacor 03:30, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, that's way too much of a stretch. Ed, sorry, but Cute 1 4 u has just done too much. Yeah, she'll keep coming back, and she'll continue to contact you, and we'll continue to deal with her. If she realizes that she's not helping, then we'll stop blocking, but as long as she continues to contact you and admit that she's who she is, then we have to block her. Ryūlóng 04:21, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Ryulong, I'm not the only one she might want to contact. Do you even realize that she could be lurking around Wikipedia right this moment? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ed (talk • contribs)

75.34.12.156 is another one. Posted on my talk page Æon ^{Insanity Now!}_EA! 07:11, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

I don't know about this IP you found, but I think we should wait until she does something else before we take action against this IP.--Ed^{talk c E} 22:45, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

It was blocked it was her (The post admited it) Æon ^{Insanity Now!}_EA! 00:16, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

How long is the block? --Ed^{talk c E} 00:41, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Another Possible one Prple space mnky@hotmail.com edited with the summary Got to keep it real on edit summary (Dif [2]) a phrase that she used many many times as her qoute. Caught this one while monitoring recent changes Æon ^{Insanity Now!}_EA! 00:57, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

This is Cute 1 4 u. If I had any socks, I'd admit them. I already told you all of them. But Ed is right, I'm trying to prove my point. --75.33.230.133 02:11, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

I'm not Prple space mnky@hotmail.com , User:Starcare, or User:Publicola. I swear, I don't even know them. However, to prove my point, all i can say is that i have a new account and I am much nicer on that account. Ed is right. --75.33.230.133 02:17, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

I may have found another sock and I requested a check user (Came up again on Recent changes, edits article that were created by other socks with teh same grammer an such) Æon ^{Insanity Now!}_EA! 02:38, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

More or less confrimed the sockpuppet. Autoblock got it (See TV Lover) Æon ^{Insanity Now!}_EA! 04:16, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Okay, Cute 1 4 u (or whatever) is going to get me a headache. I tried asking her why she's doing this on her talk page, but she said she's "going to commit 'suiside' ," or something. I don't know... I know this may sound stupid, but can't we block her IP address, so she stops creating these annoying sockpuppets? Cheers! The RSJ - ^SPEAK 03:30, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

She's on a dynamic IP, SBC, I believe (according to the WHOIS reports). There's not much we can do but keep blocking her new accounts. She's not committing suiside any time soon. Ryūlóng 05:32, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Can you please clarify your statement? "Committing suicide"? Is it literal or figurative? --physicq210 05:38, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Prob Figurative she is 11 years old and has a history of being overly dramatic. Æon ^{Insanity Now!}_EA! 05:41, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

She'll be back tomorrow, probably recreating that article of hers. Ryūlóng 05:47, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Do we have any way to protect the page from being created, say, creating a blank article then fully protecting it? Shadow1 17:35, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

What is the article she keeps creating? Æon ^{Insanity Now!}_EA! 20:09, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

This situation is getting nowhere. In fact, it's getting worse. She will keep making new accounts, and you know that. We must find a permanent solution to this.--Ed^{talk c E} 00:23, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

The soulition is simple keep blocking her. We can't block her IP with out cuasing other issues. Æon ^{Insanity Now!}_EA! 08:57, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Has anyone contacted SBC about this user? Letting them know that the misbehavior of one 11-year-old kid might lead to Wikipedia blocking their entire DHCP range could be an incentive for them to listen. -- llywrch 19:16, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but I must tell you something. I live in the same area as Cute 1 4 u (not the same suburban area, we don't live close together or anything, we both in Metropolitan Chicago, which is in the United States). Anyway, SBC changed to AT&T in Chicago. AT&T bought SBC, so I have no idea what you guys are talking about.--Ed^{talk c E} 22:30, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Let me get my facts straight. Take a look at SBC Communications, which says that SBC was the one who bought AT&T. They then changed their name. --Ed^{talk c E} 22:32, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

I'm am not misbehaving. I had stress but it has gone away. Not creating any more accounts. If I have to come back when I'm 13, I guess i'll create another account then. Say what you want. Don't contact me llywrch, I don't know you. --75.34.176.207 03:21, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

With that begin said I may have found yet one more sockpuppet of Her. I have requested another check user. Æon ^{Insanity Now!}_EA! 19:48, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Another day, another sockpuppet, eh? What's the newest sockpuppet called now? Cheers! The RSJ - ^SPEAK_{The RSJ at the RS Wiki} 20:12, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

But Crystal (that's her real name, so everyone would know) already said she's not creating any socks.--Ed^{talk c E} 23:36, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

And I don't beleive her. Check my talk page for the latest. Æon ^{Insanity Now!}_EA! 03:52, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

Ed, I'm not. That other sock was before i made my earlier statement. --75.33.249.5 05:33, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

on Aeon's page I met to say I wouldn't make anoter sock p. --75.34.185.51 18:39, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

I checked Cute 1 4 u's block log, and I am very surprised that we banned a user for being a certain age. Either I'm misreading the block reason, or we have just banned an account because she was 11 yrs. old. I don't think this is right. If Cute 1 4 u was blocked because of many other reasons such as vandalism, then that should appear on the block log.

In addition, I'm beginning to question her block reasons. The sockpuppettering is already proven. (with all of the accounts that came up here on ANI. But vandalism??? Where's the vandalism here??? I think we should recover the supposed vandalism in question.--Ed^{talk c E} 13:05, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Does anyone think this is enough to get her unblocked? If you think about it, the sockpuppeteering started just because she was blocked for being a certain age, the link to her block log is above. And there really wasn't any proof she was going to vandalise Wikipedia— Preceding unsigned comment added by Ed (talk • contribs)

Well, the admission to being part of S-man's "vandalism project" on top of all of the other things that she did (sockpuppetry, MySpace treatment, personal attacks, civility, etc.) all led to her block. If she just sits it out and/or stops making evident that she is who she is, then we won't have to bother her about it. But the fact that its now starting to bother you and other users is beyond anything. Ryūlóng 21:45, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Actally I just stopped that. And Ed's right. Why am I blocked for being 11? I can't change my age untill years past. He did the vandalism. I though about and said yeah but after that i was gonna sasy no but I was blocked. Now you think about it. Are you really being fair? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cute 1 4 u (talk • contribs)

Then why does the edit summary state her age as the main problem? I suggest that the blocking admin unblock her and provide a better block summary. And in addition, where's the proof that she was vandalising with S-man? I don't see any proof anywhere.--Ed^{talk c E} 23:02, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

I meant block summary. =) --Ed^{talk c E} 23:31, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

She has made some descent edits. I think we should re-enable her account if nothing else after a short break period of maybe a month or so. Anyways, that is my 2 cents. --Mattwj2002 23:54, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

I think so, too. What I'm thinking is that we get her account unblocked and put her on a monthlong probation. During the probation period, we will be watching all of her contribs and things like that. If she does something questionable, we block her with no questions asked.--Ed^{talk c E} 00:03, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

I initially believed that this user deserved another chance. The behaviour since the block was placed between this user and the numerous sockpuppets, some of which were created after the block, has shown to me beyond a shadow of a doubt that this user has no intention of becoming a good editor and has no compunction against blatantly flaunting Wikipedia's rules and regulations. While this is clearly an opinion, I am firmly against unblocking this user's account. If the user cannot even be trusted to behave while a block is in effect, what possible reason do we have for believing the user will act properly if unblocked? Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Fool me fifty times and I'm a moron. --Yamla 00:55, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

(unindent)Please rephrase your last 3 sentences. They don't make sense. =) Anyway, why do you think that Cute 1 4 u has been sockpuppeteering? Maybe the block would have affected it. Even then, putting her on probation shoud do the trick.--Ed^{talk c E} 01:03, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

She was being a sockpuppeteer long before her indefinite block. User:Raven Symone, User:Skittles Lover, and others that have been proven at Wikipedia:Requests for checkuser/Case/Cute 1 4 u, one of which was long before the block was imposed. I would not feel it wrong if Yamla decided to change the block summary to something else; something that just doesn't show that she was blocked on the reason of her age, but that along with the many other reasons I have mentioned above. Ryūlóng 06:19, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

I think this situation is becoming corrupt:

• Cute 1 4 u was blocked for being a certain age, as stated in her block summary. As far as I'm concerned, whatever is in the block summary is the basis of her block.
• She wasn't going to vandalise Wikipedia. She planned to vandalise the sister projects, but not Wikipedia. There's a difference. The admins at the appropriate sister projects should have been notified.
• We're making wild assumtions that Cute 1 4 u keeps making sockpuppets. I know that she admitted to some of the socks, but what if the accounts were controlled by her siblings or relatives or something? At her original userpage, Cute 1 4 u established that she had siblings (I think).--Ed^{talk c E} 23:13, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
  • She said she wasn't going to vandalise wikipedia. She's already shown a willingness to ignore our rules by creating socks. There are no wild assumptions when she's admitted to some of the sockpuppets. If one of those accounts really was a family member, that is unfortunate, but really too bad. Sometimes someone does something that ruins it for everyone. If the family is really that bent out of shape over it, they'll have to take it up with her. Maybe she'll learn something.--Crossmr 13:14, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
    • All I'm just saying is that we're just coming to conclusions about these sockpuppets. We're blocking accounts for sharing the same IP with a banned user. For instance, what if she's using a school IP? There are multiple users that might be coming from the same school. And what about the wifi connections that people use now? Wouldn't multiple users be using the same wifi connection?--Ed^{talk c E} 02:12, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
      • Family members getting blocked because of one bad apple? What a ridiculous notion! --Ryūlóng 06:40, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
      • Also, we're not blocking new accounts for sharing the same IP. We're blocking new accounts because Cute 1 4 u comes out and says she's evaded her block, again, on some ridiculously named new account or one of us finds out through seeing suspicious edits and she hasn't admitted to it yet, and that pushes us to add an nth RFCU request on her. Ryūlóng 07:41, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

i'm back. User:Shakim67 is not my family member and my family is not out of shape or whatever you wanna say. My point of createing sockpuppets is to show you my good edits. And i admit, I can be one evil bitch [3] (if that's what ya wanna say), but I can also be a best friends and very nice.i don;t care what you need to say to me. Any way, i was planning to vandalize other wiki products, but decided not. I was gonna tell S-man i changed my mind but I was then already blocked. so thats my side of the story. --75.34.188.39 01:44, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

Hmmm, maybe we should try and view your side of the story and review this situation in an unbiased manner!!!--Ed^{talk c E} 02:18, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

Creating sockpuppets to show your good edits is calling disrupting Wikipedia to make a point, which is bad, mkay? Ryūlóng 02:36, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

SORRY, MY KEYBOARD'S GETTING STUCK ON THE CAPS LOCK KEY. I CAN'T DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT.--Ed^{talk c E} 02:46, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

I'm rescinding that last comment, as you appear to be lying a bit. Ryūlóng 03:24, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

i didn't say shakim was my sockpuppet. He's a different person. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Cute 1 4 u (talk • contribs) .

That's not what your sockpuppetry comes from. It's from User:Christy06, User:New York from Flavor of Love, and whoever else you made. Those sockpuppets were used to solely evade your block and continue editting, and now, you just edit anonymously, bring attention to yourself, and impose another block on your IP for the day. Ryūlóng 03:10, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Ah, you've hit the mark, Ryūlóng... she wants attention! •The RSJ• ^{(Main Hub - Rants)} 19:37, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

I do not want attention. I just wanna go back to wikipedia. (The 1st block) I wanna know why am i blocked for being 11? --75.31.247.39 22:33, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Your continued blatant abuse of Wikipedia (continuing to bypass blocks and continuing to create abusive sockpuppets) shows quite clearly why you should be blocked. At this point, I'm in favour of instantly banning any sockpuppets on site and providing long-term blocks of any IP address used by this user. Continuing to edit the Wikipedia while blocked is abusive behaviour. No ifs, ands, or buts. Additionally, we should consider additional steps to prevent the continued abuse from this user. I'm not sure what else can be done, though. Perhaps a block of the entire IP range, though that has a high possibility of hitting innocent third parties (in which case, it is clearly inappropriate). Perhaps contacting the ISP and having them terminate the abusive user (though I'm not sure if this is kosher). --Yamla 22:46, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Range blocking this user will result in a DoS of what may be all SBC customers in the Chicago area, and taking legal actions against an 11 year old doesn't sound too easy. Ryūlóng 16:36, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Correct. Placing a range block hinders the editing of numerous editors from Chicago. WE NEED ANOTHER SOLUTION.--Ed^{talk c E} 18:44, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Looks like you're all in luck guys. There was a tornado warning in effect yesterday in the Chicago area. No, there was no major damage to Chicago (I think), but the Internet connections have been cut off. In fact, I haven't been able to edit Wikipedia until right now until my Internet came back. (I live in the Chicago suburbs). So...just sit back, and relax. --Ed^{talk c E} 18:49, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

(Edit conflict) To get through to you, a bit, Ed, THIS IS WHAT WE ARE DOING IN THIS CONVERSATION, AMIRITE? We are trying to figure out a way to deal with Cute 1 4 u, which may just end up getting her (and by proxy her parents') internet subscription cancelled for a period of time, and this would force her parents to input parental controls so that she cannot utilize Wikipedia, but this would have to be done at some point through legal actions, and I don't think Brad or any of the other Wikimedia legal reps wants to have to sue an 11 year old girl. Ryūlóng 18:54, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Just to be clear, although I believe Cute 1 4 u's abuse has gone way out of hand, I don't think it is realistic to seriously consider suing her. There's virtually no potential upside as far as I can see, and substantial downsides. Plus WP:LEGAL. Also, blocking all of Chicago isn't a good plan because it would affect editors like Ed, though if we could find a way to do so without affecting other users, I would strongly advise that action. I wonder how difficult it would be to contact the ISP and report the long-term deliberate abuse, and whether it would result in any change. Apart from that, the only other option I see is permanent bans on the sockpuppets and long-term blocks on any IP address used by this long-term vandal. Perhaps IP blocks of a month at a time, until and unless we block a legitimate editor accidentally (not just another abusive sockpuppet). --Yamla 19:01, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Well, legal suit was just the only thing I could think of (I'm a marine biologist/chemist/geologist/anthropologist, not a lawyer :P). The best we can do is just what Yamla has suggested. Indefblock registered users that are proven after either edits, an RFCU, or an autoblock, and long-term block IP addresses that she claims to use, which may sadly end up blocking the Chicago area's SBC users. Ryūlóng 19:05, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

(unindenting, with edit conflict)Blocking Cute 1 4 u's IP range will affect all SBC users. In addition, SBC has better things to worry about than our problems with one of their clients. For example, almost all of their Chicago customers are cut off from the internet because of the tornado last night. With that in mind, SBC would consider Wikipedia one of their least problems--Ed^{talk c E} 19:10, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Well, when the time passes, we will have to send an abuse complaint to SBC concerning Cute 1 4 u's actions in the various Wikimedia projects. Rangeblocking is certainly out of the question, for now, but IP blocks will help (even though it appears that a new IP edits every day). Ryūlóng 19:21, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

• I placed the banned user template on Cute 1 4 userpage, legal action for this is silly in my opinion. Jaranda ^{wat's sup} 19:24, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

  So now we just treat any edits as revertable, even if they pop-up here? Ryūlóng 19:28, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

  Yes, revert and block Jaranda ^{wat's sup} 19:30, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

  Okay, then. Looks like I'm going to have to frequent AIV more. Ryūlóng 19:31, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

So what? Are we going to notify SBC or deal with the situation ourselves.?--Ed^{talk c E} 19:43, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

I have a feeling that Cute 1 4 u will be making more socks. In fact, she might have a sockpuppet going around Wikipedia right now! Do we have a category page where we can just put all of her socks? That way, we can look through all of them and try to predict what her next sockpuppet would be.--Ed^{talk c E} 14:18, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Well, I don't have any socks at the present time. I would have made a new account. But i'm interested in real life. :P Peace. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cute 1 4 u (talk • contribs)

I think an indefinite block was a little much. I think if you give this user another chance she will be more careful in her actions on Wikipedia. Jecowa 19:28, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

What's this based on? Her continuing stream of abusive edits since the initial block? The large number of abusive socks she continues creating? An editor who continues blatantly and deliberately abusing the Wikipedia and lying about her actions while a block is in place is not, in my opinion, someone proving themselves likely to "be more careful in her actions" in the future. --Yamla 03:39, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

vandalism of Utonagan page

There have been repeated occurences of vandalism on the Utonagan page within Wikipedia. These have implied that Utonagan have wolf content or are related to other wolf-look-a-likes who have wolf content. They have also mentioned behavioral problems which do not exist in the breed, and have even gone to the extent as to imply that they originated from alaskan dogs with wolf content.

As the foremost breeder of Utonagan in the country, these have become more than irritating.

The TCP/IP address of the user known to make these changes is: 212.36.181.65

With thanks

Nadia Carlyle

www.twatha-utonagan.com

Creek people

Creek people has a repeat repeat vandalism offender. I hope posting here is the solution. The offender is an unregistered IP vandal 164.58.208.245 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log) who has changed the pages 16 times in the past 30 minutes.

Help Request from Lesser Evil

[4]

Administrative abuse by User:David.Monniaux

David sez: This user has been blocked from editing Wikipedia for violating Wikipedia's policies, most notably WP:NOT: Wikipedia user pages, signatures, etc. should not be used for advocacy. He then blocked User:Rookiee indefinitely and deleted, and then protected Rookiee's user- and talkpage. The "other policies" alluded to here were not mentioned anywhere, and the indefinite block apparently followed Rookiee readding of a link once. He was not warned following this.

David's allegation of "signature advocacy" apparently stems from the devious subliminal message Rookiee uses in his signature, and, ironically, David also had a links his homepage on his userpage. JayW 18:40, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

Rookiee was warned in the strongest possible terms that an indefinite block was coming unless he ceased using his user page to promote pedophilia. Fred Bauder 18:47, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

You alone do not have the authority to make such a warning. JayW 19:42, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

?!? Not only does he have "the authority", it's part of every admin's job description to protect the project, which this clearly falls under. This is a particularly weird comment, given that Fred Bauder is a member of ArbCom. Jkelly 19:44, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

..here's a scenerio. I'm an admin. I go TheLand's userpage and discover s/he enjoys the violin. And as it happens, a violin raped my father last week. So I burst in hir talk page and declare - without any community discussion - that, should "TheLand" not censor her page immediantly to suit my delicate sensibilities, I'll single-handedly block her - without even asking others or a "warning" block - forever. Per WP:NOT of course, nothing to do with my personal prejudices... (I might even throw in a vague death threat, just for good measure.)

..and all this is despite the fact that hundreds of other people are also violating "NOT," yet they're still free to edit.

Within my rights? Y/N?

Of course, in the real world, violins are not blamed for everything imaginable, so this analogy might be just a little off.

"given that Fred Bauder is a member of ArbCom."

uh. It's unfortunate you don't know what the ArbCom is? JayW 20:25, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

My suspicion is that the above is an attempt to entertain yourself. If you're genuinely confused, you can find more information at Wikipedia:Administrators and Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee. Jkelly 21:23, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

"If you're genuinely confused, you can find more information at Wikipedia:Administrators and Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee." The point was that the ArbCom doesn't have shit to do with anything here and if you believe it does, you clearly don't know what it is. JayW 23:04, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

They would be the place for an indefinitely blocked user to appeal the block. Again, you can find out more information about how dispute resolution works at the above link. Jkelly 23:09, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

Exactly: ergo, your point is ridiculous and Fred still doesn't have the right to bypass the wiki community. And you're yet to explained why a ban is more appropriate than a simple page protection. JayW 23:28, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

Your attempt at an "analogy" goes far beyond reductio ad absurdum and simply into the realm of the bizarre. A violin does not advocate for, bluntly, the legalization of child molestation. FCYTravis 21:32, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

I thought Rookiee was blocked on the basis of WP:NOT? JayW 23:04, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

Yep. Good call. We are not a platform for the promotion of 'boylove'. The Land 19:49, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

Honestly, I don't give a fuck what you do to his userpage, but the indefinite block is disproportionate, unfair, and against our own blocking policy. There was basically zip for dispute resolution, here. JayW 20:25, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

You seem to be under the misapprehension that lengthy dispute resolution is required when a user is blatantly violating Wikipedia policy, in a manner that endangers the project, and refuses to stop after repeated warnings. -- SCZenz 20:39, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

There was an extensive discussion between a number of people, including senior administrators, on his Talk page. That's all the dispute resolution needed. From the content of that conversation, the content of the deleted edits to his user page, and the nature of his blog I am clear that Fred and others acted correctly. Wikipedia is not a soapbox, and particularly not one for pedophiles. The Land 20:43, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

The action was necessary and proper to defend the integrity of Wikipedia as an encyclopedia. I wholeheartedly support it. FCYTravis 20:54, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

If you don't like Rookiee's userpage, blank and protect it. A block is not appropriate and not excusable. We have already concluded, after losing multiple editors, that paedophiles shouldn't be blocked for their orientation; wanna discuss it again? JayW 23:04, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

The real shocking thing here is not the block, but that he has been allowed to last this long as it is. He was indef blocked with his userpage deleted in March, and it was reversed. Whenever a disruptive user is saved by other admins, they almost always end up getting blocked again. We need to stop this. Disruptive users or those who pose a threat have no place here - to hell with "rehabilitation" and to hell with AGF. --Jeffrey O. Gustafson - Shazaam! - <*> 21:09, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

Too many people fail to understand that WP:AGF does not require that we continue to assume good faith in the face of extensive evidence to the contrary. FCYTravis 21:16, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

Not sure I 100% agree with you, good editors should be encouraged to work through problems and continue to be good editors (though often by the time it gets to a block, it's well beyond that). But yes WP:AGF is not "look the other way", and maybe we do need a WP:NOT a psychiatrist's couch, daycare centre, rehabilitation clinic etc. --pgk 21:40, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

I find it... amusing that people who claim to support free speech quote the Gayssot Law, which basically bans speech that some people consider "hateful". Apart from that, feel free to send this to ArbCom, and please do not edit my user page. David.Monniaux 22:34, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

"I find it... amusing that people who claim to support free speech quote the Gayssot Law, which basically bans speech that some people consider "hateful". Ever bring a plastic knife to a gunfight before, David? JayW 23:04, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

You should consider attending to your own behaviour at this point. If your interest in Wikipedia is amusing yourself by making quips or scoring points on an internet forum, please find another venue. Jkelly 23:09, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

"making quips or scoring points on an internet forum" Your attack is irrelevant, seeing as the above post was simply a reply to David's implication. How the hell is that a "quip?" JayW 23:28, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

"Quip" would be overstating; "confused non sequitor" is more descriptive. --150.61.31.119 23:38, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

I've blocked JayW for incivility and trolling. 24 hours. --Jeffrey O. Gustafson - Shazaam! - <*> 23:51, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

• I continue to advance the notion that pedophiles should be blocked on sight. El_C 01:14, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Where do you draw the line? Fred Bauder 03:51, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

• I support the block of JayW. User:Zoe|(talk) 02:14, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

• I don't. He is swearing a lot and debating very aggressively. However, he is not sdimply trolling, he is trying to argue quite a serious and difficult point, albeit not very calmly. However if we blocked people for swearing when we were angry we'd all be fucking screwed. The Land 09:08, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

• I agree with The Land that JayW should not have been blocked for swearing. Dionyseus 09:29, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
• The block is only for 24 hours, so I would let it stand. I hope that it gets the point across that making personal attacks against users (a blockable offense) is a no-go on Wikipedia and if he wants to debate the indef block of Rookie, then he should do so without the name calling an insults. As for the swearing, we all done it, but it should be a good idea that in a debate like this, just refrain from doing them (don't block just because he swears, but if the swearing is getting too much, come back here). User:Zscout370 ^{(Return Fire)} 09:39, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Please note that Everyking was banned from this page because of his repeated assaults on the actions of administrators. There is precedent, JayW. User:Zoe|(talk) 01:46, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

hay guyz I have an idea, how about we discuss Rookiee's block instead? I really don't care about how many people you've censored before; I'd just like someone to unblock Rookiee ASAP, per policy, human decensy and common sense. Thank you. JayW 03:50, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

per policy, human decensy and common sense. Except for each of those "per"s being wrong, wrong, and wrong, not a reason not to do it. Other than, of course, being a completely ridiculous idea, that is. --Calton | Talk 04:05, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

I am talking with Rookiee and Jimbo regarding his page. I would rather finish that conversation first. I hope he can be persuaded to make his userpage less aggressive. Simply restoring it short circuits the conversation. There is also hope he might consider not using the signature "revolyob" {boylover spelled backwards.} I think there is consensus that he can edit, on the same terms as others. The issue is using Wikipedia for pedophilia advocacy. We need to make an agreement with him though, not with his defenders as if he has to be constantly policed, it is better if he is not here at all. Fred Bauder 04:06, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Unblocking Rookiee is not going to go over well in certain circles. Some people are of the opinion that it is impossible for a self-admitted pedophile to remain neutral when editing related articles. Rookiee's pro-pedophile activities outside of Wikipedia are well-documented; phrases like "harboring pedophiles" are starting to be mentioned in relation to Wikipedia. Is that what we want to happen? Powers ^T 14:29, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Nothing happening so far. Unblocking him is just not completely ruled out. Fred Bauder 14:43, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

WP:BLP Concern - Wrestler's Real Name

Per discussion with several users, I'd encourage you to comment on Wikipedia:Biographies_of_living_persons/Noticeboard#Nigel_McGuinness. Nigel McGuinness is the trademarked stage name of a professional wrestler (his real name is publically available in USPTO filings). "Nigel" does not want his real name to be disclosed on Wikipedia.

For those interested in a quick summary: We were contacted yesterday by his webmistress, requesting that his name be removed. After a revert war with several users, she filed an OTRS complaint, the pages were locked, and the revisions deleted. Nigel McGuinness remains fully protected. alphaChimp^(talk) 01:12, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

There is no need for further discussion as far as I can see; the users involved have acted apropriately, and the resulting actions are correct for the situation. --Jeffrey O. Gustafson - Shazaam! - <*> 01:18, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

I suppose I will point out what is, to me, the crux of the issue - the fact that this man's real name is not published anywhere else. A Google search for the man's real name + wrestling came up with zero hits outside of Wikipedia. That means Wikipedia was being used as the primary point of dissemination for previously private information - which is something we are not. I will continue the conversation on the BLP noticeboard as necessary. FCYTravis 01:22, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

I don't see any real issue in putting someone's name in their article, particularly given the public nature of that information. This really isn't so much about Nigel McGuinness, but the precedent we're setting in regard to real names and stage names (see Criss Angel for a very similar situation). alphaChimp^(talk) 01:24, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

The situations are not similar at all. The very first Google result for "Christopher Sarantakos" is this Forbes article on Mr. Sarantakos' life. The link between the real name and the stage name is widely known. I would not uphold any OTRS complaint about the use of this man's real name because it is well and truly public. In Mr. McGuinness' case, there is no such public knowledge and the only source citeable is a trademark database. FCYTravis 01:36, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Mr Sarantakos name isn't on the public record, as far as I know, and his proponents try at all stops to remove his name. That case is the same vein in that, assuming in the Sarantakos case his name is known but not of public record while the McGuinness case has the name of public record but "unknown", they both have to do with wanting secrecy/privacy in their stage identities. We're an encyclopedia so I do not understand why factual and supported additions are to be removed at the whims of people involved - do we rate the level of publicness as the time when we start to include facts that are already listed such as real names? Are we starting to invent a point of publicity before information has been added or do we follow wikipedia is not censored? –– Lid^(Talk) 01:44, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

We follow the idea that Wikipedia is not the first place anything should be published. Mr. Sarantakos' name is published in multiple mass media sources, hence there is no reason we should not publish it, because it is already widely known public information. Mr. McGuinness' name has not been published in any mass media sources and hence we should not be the first to open that door. FCYTravis 01:56, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

This is quite a slippery slope in that we can't post sourced information because wikipedia has to regurgitate the information of media outlets. Why media outlets? The fact of the matter is this debate is about a complaint that has no real basis of opposition due to the information being in the public domain. Even though I can find zero full wikipedia policies that specifically deny his name to be placed here, and I've read through WP:NOT trying to find one and keep coming up with the "is not censored" part supporting keeping the name in, it could still be argued that it falls under WP:Ignore all rules and WP:BOLD as keeping it out interferes with improving the information of wikipedia. –– Lid^(Talk) 02:48, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

WP:BLP#Public_figures emphasizes that basic facts should be published in reliable secondary sources (such as a newspaper or magazine article) before being included in our articles. A USPTO filing is primary source. Dragons flight 03:05, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Touchè, but I believe the second part, ignore all rules, still applies as this is specifically lessening the information of wikipedia and setting an extremely dangerous precedent (see Daniel Bryant's comments). –– Lid^(Talk) 03:09, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

This is not unprecedented. We treat porn stars the same way. If it is not already out in the real media then Wikipedia is not in the business of revealing it. Though this case is more verifiable than the cases I've dealt with since the USPTO is presumably beyond reproach. Dragons flight 01:39, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

The USPTO is a reliable source. It's relevant to the article. That's all there is to it - it should clearly be included. --Improv 01:41, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

It's not all that relevant since knowing his real name tells you nothing about the character he plays (I'm assuming that the actor is not notable aside from the character.) But mostly I agree with FCYTravis, being the first mass media to expose a secret identity is not the kind of thing Wikipedia is intended to be used for. Dragons flight 02:03, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

(edit conflict) I'd suggest that the USPTO is a significantly more notable source that Forbes. If the fact was not verifiable, we'd obviously remove it per WP:BLP, but it is verifiable, and is in no way defamatory. alphaChimp^(talk) 01:46, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

The USPTO is a reliable source, but is it notable? How is a trademark filing notable? Everyone who ever files for a trademark should be on Wikipedia? FCYTravis 02:00, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

This isn't a chicken or egg debate, the article existed long before the trademark was discovered so the point of trademark filing leading to articles is not part of the debate at hand. –– Lid^(Talk) 02:12, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps I used the wrong term. Obviously we don't have to make an article for every patent holder. But, the fact that that information is made publically available in said patent should allow it to be included. alphaChimp^(talk) 02:20, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

The talk page of the Buckethead article may be of interest to participants in this conversation. Buckethead has taken great pains to keep his real name private. Ξxtreme Unction|_{yakkity yak} 01:51, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Of course, since MTV and Rolling Stone published his name, he apparently wasn't all that effective. Dragons flight 01:59, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Great work, guys. Daniel Brandt now has some more ammunition to have his whole article removed, because of this. If all it takes is to send an OTRS to WMF to censor information you don't want written about you, then WP:NPOV may need to be re-written. Daniel.Bryant 02:55, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Ah yes, the Daniel Brandt card. Regularly and blatantly misused to justify the inclusion of anything we want about living people simply because screw them, who cares, we can do it, so we're going to do it. The question has been repeatedly asked - What relevancy does his real name have to his wrestling career? Where is his real name used other than Wikipedia and a trademark filing? Why should we countenance the use of Wikipedia as an investigatory tool about people's lives, rather than a means of encyclopedically summarizing their life and career based on reliable published sources? None of those questions have been satisfactorily answered. Instead, we get the same he doesn't want it in, thus we should put it in just because we can, and he can't do anything about it, neener neener neener nonsense over and over again. Ridiculous. FCYTravis 03:20, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Isn't the trademark filing a reliable source? I'm pretty sure it is. Or don't you trust the US Government agencies to get his name right...? Wait a minute! "Wikipedia may contain content that some readers consider objectionable..." - amazing! Oh, and "In its ambitious mission of documenting all human knowledge" (existing emphasis on Wikipedia:Content disclaimer) Amazing! Daniel.Bryant 03:28, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

It's not about "Because we can", but rather because it's relevant. For articles about people, their name is pertinent. People's preferences should have no bearing, positive or negative, on what's in an article about them -- we're an encyclopedia, not a PR firm. If it makes it a better article, and it's based on a verifiable source, we should include it. I don't see any reason we should try for a sympathetic treatment of subjects. --Improv 20:45, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

From the previous examples of Buckethead and Criss Angel to every single character profile ever on wikipedia the real name is listed in the article, usually in the first line, even if that person doesn't want their real identity to be revealed to the public. Wikipedia is about facts, not ommitting them. The reason the published elsewhere question has been ignored is because it has no bearing on the debate, if it had been published elsewhere we wouldn't even be having this debate. The biggest issue is the precedent it sets, removing publically available facts because of a complaint when the facts are neither negative nor libel. Your ending line of "neener neener" is especially odd considering everyone here is keeping a level head and debating the topic fairly. If this passes does it mean that there is a level of public identity until which facts that are already known can be posted? It's a question that has huge ramifications in where do we draw the line? It's the precedent this sets that's the debate, not the individual. –– Lid^(Talk) 03:32, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

His real name (which I just found and started searching around for on search engines) is nothing but a marker in a governent database. For this, while his information is in the "public record", I think it would be well afforded that since his real name exists nowhere outside of said government database it should be kept private. The logic has already been cleanly applied to birthdays (yes, everyone has a birthday, and if I go through enough trouble, I can find someone's birthday and other information, and all stage names have a birth name assigned onto them), but it doesn't need to be instantly included into an article. Its dregging up private information that should've stayed private. Now, if the media comes out and writes about his real name, as in several other cases, the cat's out of the bag. Its not like critism, though. Critism is a whole new ballgame to contend with, and I'd trust that the OTRS people would think very hard about well-sourced critism material being demanded for removal before compling with any such demands. But its not, its private information, and the right thing was probably done to remove it considering the quiet nature of his real name. Now, who wants to improve some sourcing with me? Kevin_b_er 04:16, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Once again we're back at "private information" in the public domain and how that makes it still private. The case still stands in the literally tens of thousands of other character/stage name articles and their real names being listed, where do we draw the line? Many of those articles also list birthdates, in fact the vast majority seem to, where's the line? If secondary source reported the name they would be reposting the same content as the primary source, there's no difference in the context and the source is actually further back than when it needs to be thus adding additional steps to the detriment source of knowledge that is wikipedia. Public, not private, sourced information being removed on whims should not be what wikipedia is about. –– Lid^(Talk) 04:40, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

I had decided, after my last comment, not to take any further partin this discussion; I have lifted my self-imposed parole just for this comment. Firstly, Kevin, I totally agree with you, and express my hope that the OTRS people would strongly consider whether to delete well-sourced criticism from a request. I was personally involved in something which was the exact definition of the aforementioned situation, and I was aggrieved to realise that Wikipedia had, in fact, deleted sourced criticism from an article. But that's the past, this is the present, and hopefully in the future WMF will consider their position more closely.

In this instance, I think the decision has to be made here is whether a state-actors real name is personal/private info, or is it public/needed. In most cases, a name would be public/needed, and hence includedin the article. However, the question is do many people know this person/actor by his real name, and if they do, is there enough to deem it notable? I have already expressed my opinion in this case, and won't just repeat it again for repeating's sake. So, if you ever see me posting on this issue again, give me a slap over the wrists at my talk page, and I wish everyone else good luck in this discussion, and lets hope that this discussion doesn't degenerate into incivility, insult throwing and name-calling. Cheers, Daniel.Bryant 04:35, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

I'd like to comment on something posted above: It's not all that relevant since knowing his real name tells you nothing about the character he plays (I'm assuming that the actor is not notable aside from the character.) (by Dragons flight). If we're going to follow this, we'd have to remove pretty much every single professional wrestler's real name, regardless of whether it's verifiable, public information, or whatnot. This can't happen. McGuinness' real name does belong in the article. -->So sayeth Methnor^{Sayeth back}|_{Other sayethings}

We are here to synthesise information, not to be investigative journalists or to "out" people. On the particular facts of this case, I favour keeping the info out of the article. On a very slightly different set of facts I'd take a different view. I don't think this is much of a precedent. Metamagician3000 03:58, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

This whole issue has piqued my interest, perhaps due to FCYTravis's question above whether the USPTO is a "reliable" or a "notable" source. Can we rely on the USPTO to give us the real name of this Nigel McGuiness? I took at the Trademark database, & found the name in question (I'll call him Smith in order to keep this discussion from being redacted), & all it states is that Smith is the owner of the trademark -- not Smith is the real-life name of McGuiness. Now anyone can own a trademark: the actor, his agent, his lawyer or accountant, or a suit in the Professional Wrestling business who has no other relationship to the person who performs under that name. It's clear that Smith has some kind of relationship to the character Nigel McGuiness, but to explain what that relationship is would be original research (which is the point I suspect Metamagician3000 is arguing) -- unless someone can cite a published source that explains it. This line of reasoning is good enough for me to exclude this source -- although it does not settle the question people are arguing over above. Does it convince anyone else? -- llywrch 06:36, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

As per the USPTO's website if it were an attorney the trademark would list the applicant as "representative". It's listed as a "principal" meaning the person who registered it is the individual using it. –– Lid^(Talk) 09:45, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Isn't the principal the owner of the trademark, rather than the necessarily the person acting as a character with a trademarked name? For example, who is listed as principal for trademarks like "superman" or "batman" or "spiderman"? WAS 4.250 12:27, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

The principal for each is their parent companies, namely DC and marvel comics, however looking at those trademarks illuminated something to me about trademark formats . When a lawyer gets the trademark for another the trademark lists a section for "Attorney of Record" which the McGuinness trademark lacks. In addition the trademarks of those are listed next to type of mark as TRADEMARK while McGuinness is listed as SERVICE MARK, which under glossary is "to indicate the source of the services and to distinguish them from the services of others. A service mark is the same as a trademark except that it identifies and distinguishes the source of a service rather than a product." As the McGuinness trademark is for "Sports and Entertainment Services, namely, live and televised performances by a professional wrestler/entertainer." this categorically proves the person who submitted the trademark is the real name of McGuinness. –– Lid^(Talk) 12:48, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

I think your explanation above has simply underlined my point: if you have to interpret or furnish a lengthy explanation for a source, then you are getting close to the No original research ban. Normally, I wouldn't consider this a reason to invoke this guideline, but the fact that WP:OFFICE was involved puts the burden of proof on us: unless someone has investigated this matter & published her or his claim that the owner of the trademark (or service mark) is Nigel McGuinness, we can't use this source as independant proof -- only as a confirmation of what someoen else claims.

There are a lot of sources that fall into the same category as the USPTO database in this regard: for example, A. B. had to make an extensive argument here to prove that there was a flaw in the information at the GeoNames server, & that a certain village did not exist in Nigeria. Another are the real estate databases maintained by local governments: can you always be certain that if Smith is recorded as the owner of a certain piece of land that it is where he lives? Allowing these publically-accessible sources to be used to prove points opens a path that I, for one, am uncomfortable going down; this is a good case where we should be content to wait for someone else to prove this connection first. -- llywrch 01:11, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

This interview, which I'm sure you're going to remove from this page, gives the same name as the trademark search and other details that match McGuinness exactly; English professional wrestler training in the American midwest under Les Thatcher in the HWA. The interview was conducted before he was ever known as McGuinness. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.17.182.252 (talk • contribs)

I think this discussion is missing the main points of having a BLP policy. The underlying idea is "do no harm". How does the inclusion/exclusion of his real name affect article quality? Does any benefit outweigh the harm we are doing by including the name? If the benefit clearly outweighs the harm, then by all means, include it. If the harm clearly outweighs the benefit, then leave it out. If you aren't sure, then figure it out. Why does he not want his real name plastered all over the internet? How would those of us to choose to edit under pseudonyms feel if ED tracked down our real names from, say a 15-year-old usenet posting, and publicised it? Now remember than we are one of the top-ranked websites, and everything that gets published here is mirrored in dozens of places. We can't work on the principle of "you can't stop me, so there!" We don't operate under the ethics of 12-year-olds. Figure out the costs and the benefits of including this information. And then argue about costs and benefits, not about what we can and can't do. Guettarda 14:17, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Suggestions to die, personal attacks, and GNAA-style spam

A user, Daniel 123, after complaining about my sig and my suggestion that he focus on more important aspects of the encyclopedia or file an RfC, became extremely controntational, tell me to "die", "The image that broke my monitor was the one of your face, not your pathetic little oil pit." and then GNAA-style picture spam, including the charecteristic captions. total diff is here. It's kinda funny this user has a Esperanza link in his sig. Anyway, Im requesting an admin look into this and possibly issue a block of a day or two. -M^ask 02:06, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Blocked 1 day. However, saying "Back off the psuedo-policing and start contributing some real content to the encyclopedia, we'll all be better off for it." troubles me. There are many people who spend a majority of their time reverting vandalism. The way I see it, Wikipedia needs editors that are devoted to improving the project, whether it be reverting vandalism or writing content. Naconkantari 02:30, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

To clarify, the psuedo-policing refferred to the notice about my sig, not reverting vandalism. I referred to that by name. -M^ask 03:16, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

In fairness to the issue, if not the complainer, signatures are not supposed to contain images becxause of transclusion loads and "undue weight". The issue may have been handled very poorly, but there is a certain point here. Also, since the other user professes to be part of Esperanza, someone from that organization may wish to have a little coaching with him about civility. Four total pictures (well, two, twice) seems more like making a point than true GNAA harassment. YMMV. -- nae'blis 15:58, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Legal threat/harassment over New Creation Church (Singapore)

User: Holland6 just posted this edit summary: "(Members of city havest church has been vandalising this article. IP adresses has been forwarded to local authority and the church for action to be taken.)" [[5]]. City Harvest Church is another church in Singapore. Does anyone want to follow up? Kla'quot 07:42, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Well, not much we can do. We can't stop them doing anything (I personally think it's an empty threat), but I guess we could tell him/her to stop threatening other Wikipedia editors. I'll leave him/her a message. Cheers, Daniel.Bryant 08:19, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Thanks Daniel. Kla'quot 04:41, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

1 month block of 67.163.90.218

After reviewing the contribution history of 67.163.90.218 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log), I have decided to block the IP for one month. This IP has been engaging in persistent, though low-volume, vandalism for quite some time, and has made zero useful edits during this year. The user has been warned repeatedly, but has only been issued a single 24-hour block in May this year. The consistency of the contributions strongly suggest that this is a semi-static broadband IP which is likely, though not certain, to remain assigned to a single user for quite some time. As such, I feel that the prevention of further vandalism while the block is in place, and the possibility of sending the user the message that such vandalism is not tolerated, outweigh the risk that the IP will be reassigned to an innocent contributor who would have to either wait until the block expires or to request that it be lifted before being able to edit Wikipedia. As this is, nonetheless, an unusually long block for an IP address, I am announcing it here so that other may review it. —Ilmari Karonen (talk) 14:33, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

• One month seems like a relatively cautious approach, given the case. I encourage others to similarly stick to a month at the outside for IP's, even stable ones, and to be ready to lift such blocks the moment there is even the appearance of collateral damage. (I'm not sure we can conclude that it's stable, I'm afraid, as I have seen an IP that had garbage only for 8 months and then an academically astute question, and then more giggling vandalism -- suggesting that it was a university library point.) Geogre 23:40, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
• I have to admit that I've been known to give longer blocks, like six months, in similar circumstances. One month does seem to be cautious - but on reflection it is probably wise not to go longer than that. Metamagician3000 03:40, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

User:Bokpasa tendious editing and personal attacks

After a relatively long time in Wikipedia, this is my first ANI report. I was proud of that but patience got its limits. This user is not a user who can discuss or understand matters easily. Their userpage is an attack on my person. He's got into a lot of troubles in the es and the fr wikis. Only gods know what he's into in other wikis. I accuse them of tendentious editing and personal attacks.

English language wiki

• Calling me a racist, Hitler, and an interist-morroccan censurer
• Lack of knowledge. Refer to Talk:Saadi Dynasty.
• Between this and that i blocked them twice. 3 different admins (User:Redvers, User:Pgk, User:JzG) declined their unblocking request. [6]
• Never brought any single affirmative source or reference.
• Creating a new article which i deleted according to WP:POINT.
• Never sign their comments. He's using a Moi signature which can be confused w/ User:MOI.
• A total non-respect of WP:MoS. Their edits are a total mess, yes!. A poor mastering of English.
• This behaviour reminds me of the banned User:Gibraltarian; an infamous Gibraltar-related articles POV pusher.
• The only good thing here is that he never used any sockpuppet.

Other wikis

Please note that i got accounts at both the French and the Spanish wikis but i rarely edit them. I never interacted w/ this editor there anyway.

• User:Ecemaml (administrator in es:) categorizing Bokpasa's accusations as lies (mentiras). Ecemaml was referring to this edition. In it, Bokpasa states that "Escribo aquí, porque en las versiones tanto inglesas como francesas administradores pro-Marruecos, no sólo han censurado mis escritos, sino me han bloqueado. Esos administradores pro-Marruecos y en contra del Sáhara Occidental son fr:Utilisateur:Pontauxchats y en:User:FayssalF" (rough translation: "I'm writing here because in both en: and fr: pro-Moroccan administrators not only have censored my editions but also have blocked me. These pro-Moroccan and anti-Western Sahara administrators are fr:Utilisateur:Pontauxchats and en:User:FayssalF) Template:Es icon
• Spanish version user Tomatejc notify them of Wikipetiqueta Template:Es icon
• Spanish version admin Javier Carro blocks his account for (recreating a uncyclopaedic article). The article in question was called Derechos históricos españoles sobre Marruecos. Template:Es icon
• Blocked twice in the French wiki for the same reasons he was blocked here. Template:Fr icon -- Szvest 21:54, 23 September 2006 (UTC) User:FayssalF/Sign

I fully support Szvest's block. He has endured personal attacks from this user in the past and never took any action, hoping that she/he would change his manners. Unfortunately, I really believe that Bokpasa is here simply for the wrong reasons: To engage on disruptive edit wars and trollish behaviour in order to use wikipedia as a soapbox. He also fails to assume good faith, she/he insults other wikipedians and uses racist-like language. On top of this, she/he is not a newbie and knows the rules and policies, and had been warned to that effect a few times before. As for previous precedents, I would ask other administrators to consider the possibility of a Community Ban. Regards, Asterion^talk 22:29, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

The diffs provided seem to show a pattern of abuse. It does appear to be similar to the Gibraltar case. At any rate, I, too, support the block, and community patience appears exhausted. Firsfron of Ronchester 23:52, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

I strongly support Szvest's block. Even if some of the arguments by Bokpasa are sensible (and I could even agree with them), his behaviour pattern is quite similar to that of Gibraltarian and nothing can be done to make him comply with wikipedia's policies. The fact that he can barely write English makes the discusions he's involved even worse to moderate. --Ecemaml 12:37, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

I've just left a message to the user in question at their talk page and made clear to them that we want to make sure he/she promisses to respect the policies and guidelines of this place. Failing to answer positively to that, i must support a community ban. -- Szvest 21:53, 24 September 2006 (UTC) User:FayssalF/Sign

Personal info followup

I don't know what happened to all the stuff that was here a couple hours ago regarding the problem you guys fixed, but I wanted to ask if anything was going to be done for Atomaton - after I tried to erase the personal info from my talk page he brought it back, I don't see how that could be an accident. Well I was just wondering. Thanks :) 65.30.152.217 00:46, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

What they did was they deleted the page, then restored all the versions except the one with the personal details. No-one except administrators can view it. Daniel.Bryant 01:07, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for everyone assistance, I will consider it all taken care of :) 65.30.152.217 16:44, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Mass password requests from 69.50.208.4

Someone from the IP 69.50.208.4 has been flooding me with password reminders. I've been getting several per minute (with some intervals) since Sun, 24 Sep 2006 00:19:25 GMT. Please block this IP immediately. —Psychonaut 03:22, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Blocking prevents editing. I don't believe it would solve your problem. You could temporarily remove your e-mail address to stop the flood. - Nunh-huh 03:26, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Offensive username

User:Fuck卍卍卍卍卍卍, enough said. The account was just created so I'm not sure if there are contribs yet, otherwise I'd take it to the intervention against vandalism page. Crystallina 03:40, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

You should report these as WP:AIV for a faster response. --pgk 08:40, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Admins who don't edit articles

Available at Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)

• Ryulong, reverting right away is a bit extreme, don't you think? At least leave a genuine precis so that folks will know to click on the link -- something like: "A policy idea regarding whether people who do not add content should be allowed to be administrators at Wikipedia." It's not an AN/I issue, granted (though it might fit at AN), but just blowing it out of the page is at least slightly hostile. Geogre 13:18, 24 September 2006 (UTC)
• Also, the proposal is here [7]. Geogre 13:20, 24 September 2006 (UTC)
  • I don't know exactly what you're referring to, but I just reverted the linking from WP:VPP back to the full name; that didn't seem to serve much of a purpose. Ryūlóng 21:25, 24 September 2006 (UTC)
  • If I got it wrong, I certainly apologize. I got a note on my talk page inviting my input, and then I saw nothing here. It looked like someone had been peremptory, and I misread the history. Again, my apologies if I was hasty/confused. Geogre 00:59, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

A year or two from now when you have substantial administrative responsibilities and no time to edit you will have a different viewpoint, assuming you become productive. Fred Bauder 13:23, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Fred, can you possibly be speaking to Geogre, who has been an admin for several years and is a massive contributor of top quality content? He writes an article a day and has created some of our best Featured articles. If I were one tenth as productive as Geogre is, I'd be proud. If you were a hundredth part as productive as Geogre is, you'd be... not sure how to finish that sentence, except you'd be better placed for criticizing him than you are. Did you post in the wrong thread or something? Bishonen | talk 13:52, 24 September 2006 (UTC).

No, although I was not aware of his editing. All I know is my own story, which is that if I start doing a lot of editing (or anything else) I soon fall behind on arbitration work. So if I were as "productive" as Georgre, there would be a mess and I could hardly call myself productive at all. Fred Bauder 14:01, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Take a look at the discussion there, Fred. You could offer valuable evidence. It's true that outside work can eat up all one's time, and each of us has to make choices, but I feel a bit irresponsible if I go too long editing and don't do the mopping up that I do have time for (mainly CSD, in my case, as it rarely entails long arguments, but sometimes DRV and less often AfD), and I can assure you that, if I were to be in a more involving duty, I'd feel creepy if I went too long without doing some editing. I, personally, find that disrespect is the real subtext here, and that disrespect comes from either ill will or ignorance. We can't stop the one, but we must stop the other. Geogre 14:06, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Not knowing what CSD or DRV is, I feel like a just wondered onto a strange MUD and got ambushed by a "killing cloud" just outside the Village Church. I think if someone volunteers 30 hours a week and does good work, they should not be under pressure to do more, whether I know who Giano is or not (I did not, nor had I ever noticed you before). Fred Bauder 14:17, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Doesn't that tell you that you ought to investigate? Wouldn't that be particularly true if you were having to assess the validity of the comments? I won't comment on the logical weakness of insisting that 30 hr a week spent any way is the same as 30 hr a week spent a productive way. If you don't know the players, you could at least take a look at the program. Also, if someone were to be arbitrated for "tagging for CSD ianppropriately," wouldn't you want to know that that's "candidates for speedy deletion?" Geogre 16:18, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Fred, I want to say this with all due respect to your 30 yours of volunteer work reviewing and adjudicating the "worst and most intractable" disputes. It's a nasty job but somebody has to do it. I understand the argument that admin hours and editing hours are mutually exclusive. Some admins do little editing and some editors have no desire to do admin work. Some people do both and there is a continuing debate whether admins should also be good editors and do substantial editing work.

But, here's what boggles my mind, how can you be an arbitrator and not know what criteria for speedy deletion and deletion review are? These are fundamental concepts of the deletion process which is a core Wikipedia process. Perhaps the acronyms didn't ring a bell so you didn't remember. Or, perhaps you feel that because you are an arbitrator, you need to stay out of AFD and DRV discussions to maintain objectivity?

--Richard 16:16, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

I just don't know the jargon. No apologies for that. Please don't use it so much. I'm not the only one who gets lost in the alphabet soup. Fred Bauder 01:17, 25 September 2006 (UTC) See Wikipedia:WTF? OMG! TMD TLA. ARG!. Fred Bauder 04:02, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Oh, by the way, I think the "editors who don't contribute content should not be allowed to be admins" is a terrible policy idea although failure to show substantial experience in editing is a sine qua non for granting adminship in the first place. I would prefer either fixed terms (not necessarily term limits) or admin recall instead.

--Richard 16:16, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Tolerance and diversity and respect and a better Wikipedia are all tied together. No one should be insisting any volunteer spend their time by doing good thing A instead of good thing B. Some suggest useful new articles or other good ideas on talk pages. Some start articles as stubs. Some catagorize articles. Some wikify. Some add content to articles. Some source existing content. Some delete questionable content. Some fight the vandals. Some mediate. And so forth. Don't insist liver cells be heart cells too. WAS 4.250 15:36, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Fred Bauder was admittedly "not aware" of User:Geogre's substantial contributions but chose to denigrate George nonetheless and taunt him as non-productive without bothering to look at who he was lambasting. Upon User:Bishonen pointing out that Geogre indeed has a corpus of work here that puts most of us to shame, Mr. Bauder never apologised and then continued to belittle us all in his next comments. Fred Bauder and James Forrester have acted horribly in this debate and their dismissive and snide attitude illustrate this fundamental "disconnect" between the article editors and the non-editing Admins. --Pewlosels 16:06, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Meh. I don't much care if Fred personally has heard of me or what I do, but I do think it's essential for anyone in any judicial portion to have as an utmost quality curiosity about the site. I don't want to indict him, even if I think he's made some terrible decisions, because terrible decisions go with insightful ones. People are people. However, I do think that people need to investigate, need to be curious, need to value the side they don't do as highly as the side they do. Geogre 16:20, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

My lack of awareness is very simply explained. If I spend hours poring over the edits involved in arbitration cases the users I become familiar with are the users involved in those cases. I don't learn about the users who are busily editing and administering without being involved in the disputed matters that become arbitration cases. If I don't spend my time on the arbitration cases, I don't do a very good job, there is a big backlog and a feeling arises that the only way to solve a dispute is by main force. There is a very good reason I never heard of Geogre. He hasn't been making a lot of trouble, up to now anyway. I do edit some anyway and certainly don't hang out or IRC. I really don't think I'm a very good example of the problem Where I fall down is not doing anywhere near a normal share of administrative duties, or checkuser. I just don't have the time, unless I happen to be caught up, which is very rare. Fred Bauder 01:14, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

User:Santorummm

He has the {{protected}} tag on his userpage. When I removed it, he was incivil. Looking at his contributions is rather interesting. TimBentley (talk) 04:32, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

I don't think Wikipedia will be hurt if he isn't dealt with in some sort of way. Ryūlóng 04:37, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

I blocked him indefinitely for extremely innapropriate personal attacks. It is fine that he is upset with the wikimedia foundation and to express his opinion, but making such a scene and going on with personal attacks is completely innapropriate. Cowman109^Talk 04:44, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

IMHO, this could blocked under username violation (US Senator Rick Santorum comes to my mind). User:Zscout370 ^{(Return Fire)} 09:17, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Haven't looked, and I'm not going to be speaking in favor of anyone wanting to shadow that evil senator, but indefinite for NPA is pretty extreme. I urge you, Cowman, to lower it to a reasonable time. Let's try a week, eh? One does not go from unblocked to eternity. Geogre 13:15, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

It doesn't look like the user will be back any time soon, blocked or not. I think they made it clear they have no further desire to contribute to the encyclopedia by the long diatribe explaining his lack of trust in the Wikimedia foundation - if he does come back, he can always request to be unblocked, but I don't see this user improving the encyclopedia in the near future at this rate. The user basically stated that they were leaving and never intended to come back, and then went on to make a scene and swear at quite a few people in anger. If anyone wants to reduce the block, by all means go ahead, but I won't be doing so myself unless it turns out they were drunk or something of the sort and simply got carried away. Cowman109^Talk 18:04, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

I would prefer it if you did it, as the principle is more important than the personalities. We, individually, don't decide whether or not someone will ever be productive or not. A pure vandal is a special case, but someone hurling poop and swearing is a problem that needs multiple sets of eyes to assess. Part of the problem causing such rancor right now is that some administrators have been personalizing everything, deciding that they, personally, can block someone else for being angry, etc. If you won't shorten the block, then I suppose I will have to. A month's block is usually plenty to defuse a vandal, and, if he's gone away, then he's gone away. If he hasn't, a week or month's block is better than indefinite and still shows up on his or her record. Geogre 18:38, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

This is an offensive slang term derived from the senator's name, and thus is not allowed by WP:USERNAME. Indef blocked for inappropriate username. See the rfc also for discussion. pschemp | talk 20:07, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

I have no objection to an indefinite block for the user name. (I'm not sure how it's a particular slang term as much as it's a pretense to being at the Senator's office.) I remain adamant, however, that personal attacks not be used as justification for long blocks, or even short blocks if there is any ambiguity. Geogre 00:55, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Personal attacks of any kind are not acceptable, and I support the same blocking terms as Geogre. When he returns from his block, I am willing to help mentor him as he has seemed to make valid contributions prior to this episode. Yamaguchi先生 01:03, 25 September 2006

NPOV violations

User:Harlequin212121 (contribs) has repeatedly added NPOV violations and original research to the article Boy Meets World, despite discussion and receiving the full range of warnings. The user also reverted the page more than once with blatant disregard to any other editors' helpful additions or edits just to re-add their commentary. -Shannernanner 08:51, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

I've pointed out in the discussion that the Harlequin is engaging in original research. No policy violation has occurred. Let's hope it stays at that. - Samsara (talk • contribs) 13:38, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Thank you. -Shannernanner 00:49, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Jack Sarfatti

...is on another one his tears, railing against his many enemies and trying to "out" anyone who displeases him, succh as myself. Would some admin mind going in and deleting some recent edits where he tries this stunt, namely [8], [9], [10], and [11] -- though you could probably also lose [12] and [13], too, just on general principle. --Calton | Talk 14:03, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Attempted Account Theft

I have 2 IP's who attempted to take my account. Please see further detail at User:Ed/Attempted Password Change. Is there a chance these IP's can be banned?--Ed^{talk c E} 14:27, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Looks like they are using different IPs addresses to do this, which means a block would not be effective. Just to be safe, I'd suggest changing your password on your account AND e-mail system. Otherwise, there doesn't appear to be much we can do.--Alabamaboy 14:54, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

But with these emails that came to me, is it possible that my account has already been hacked?--Ed^{talk c E} 15:53, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

If you look at the emails I received, it just says to enter whatever the password says and to change my password once I log on.--Ed^{talk c E} 15:59, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Your old password continues to be usable if you don't log in with the new one. – Chacor 16:06, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

It's an oldish tactic. You're pretty much safe, although quite annoyed. Geogre 16:10, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Are you saying this is common?--Ed^{talk c E} 17:49, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

It's...not common, but it's not new. I've had it happen to me, although my vandal ran out of steam after a few. It's one of those WP:BEANS things, though: best not to talk about it too, too much. Unless you act on a password change, the password won't be changed: this particular annoyance campaign has been anticipated already. Geogre 18:34, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Incivility from User Opiner (talk · contribs)

User:Opiner has been engaging in what i believe is constant incivility:

• his edit history is filled with aggressive remarks where he is trying to force his opinion across through caps[14][15][16][17].

• User:Opiner constantly disrupts wikipedia even though he visibly does not understand the rules he claims to uphold [18]. the most notable incidents of this include his tendentious edits which he justifies under the edit summary "neutral point of view, please"[19] [20] even though such wholesale changes had no basis and no citations.

• User:Opiner has taken a liking to hounding myself in particular, being extremely unco-operative when attempting to resolve image issues and preferring to assume bad faith (one time accusing me of abusing popups with no AGF in sight) any time i make an open and explained alteration, attempting to use it as a scandalous exposition (eg. his response to my edit, was this[21] [22] even though i had fully clarified this previously; his response to my correction, was this).

• User:Opiner has also been lacing his contributions with conspiracy theories and accusing editors of deliberate and organised POV-pushing (per [23] [24] [25] [26] and previous diffs given) or repeatedly proclaiming "censorship" in edit summaries and on the talk page in the light of legitimate image disputes[27][28][29].

i have notified him several times on either article talk pages or his own user page to cease this incivility, one occasion due to his posting an unsuitable comment on my talk page [30]. i am finding it increasingly difficult to ignore this editor's blatantly provocative behaviour and trolling. please can somebody step in? ITAQALLAH 14:46, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

• 1) Using caps for emphasis is not incivil; it's just an alternative to bolding or italics (although overuse is shouting and is disruptive)
• 2) Your second bullet point doesn't really support your views; there is a definite case for a 3RR violation in the first link in this section, and the rest are a content dispute, which doesn't belong here.
• 3) You uploaded a dubious image and Opiner questioned you.
• 4) In this case, you have a case for incivility. Mocking an editor's grasp of English is inexcusable and you deserve a full and fair apology. A flaring up of temper is not an excuse for attacking an editor who is struggling with a language.
• 5) For the images portion of this section, you and other editors have been attempting to censor the images at hand, based on your point of view that they're "irrelevant" or "useless" or "offensive.". The rest (particularly the intro section, which keeps getting edit warred over) is a content dispute, which admins shouldn't be stepping into.
• 6) The "unsuitable" edit seems to be a discussion of a purportedly questionable edit.
• My suggestion to you would be to open a request for comment or a request for mediation; there is a legitimate dispute on the Muhammad page over POV and the suitability of images, and nobody involved has clean hands. This isn't a matter that requires administrator attention at this time. Captainktainer * Talk 19:01, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

this is not regarding any content dispute, this is regarding User:Opiner's generally incivil behaviour, which is totally counter-productive to the project. you have not addressed all of the concerns.

• 1) it is against good practice, and is certainly aggressive if used repeatedly, especially when used in the way it has been above.
• 2) making wholesale, contentious changes under the guise of an inaccurate edit summary is nothing to do with content dispute. it has everything to do with wikilawyering when you seemingly don't understand the policy.
• 3) legitimate concerns are always entertained. scandel-mongering, and most probably violations of WP:DBAD, are things i am simply not prepared to tolerate when there was no basis for claiming dubiosity, where all one needed to do was study the source URL given.
• 4) you are mistaken, i am a native english speaker. that i may be pre-occupied or tired such that i make a mistake does not necessitate that i be pounced upon or "exposed" via childish games.
• 5) there have been legitimate reasons for opposition to some of the images, as you yourself confirm. please do not generalise, i personally do not recall being significantly involved in the image debate, which is a content dispute. i only recall removing an image once, with the justification that the grounds for its inclusion should be first discussed on talk. to resort to continuous allegations of censorship upon those who may object is a disappointing lack of good faith, as are accusations of POV-pushing and "alliances".
• 6) there are guidelines for using user talk pages. i find such remarks unwelcome to say the least. ITAQALLAH 19:51, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Sockpuppets being used concerning Gabrielangel

I recently deleted Gabrielangel after it had been deleted twice before. Relevant pages are my user talk page, User:Gabrielangel's contributions consisting of two requests to the mediation cabal (here and here), and GamingScholar's user talk page. GamingScholar's talk page mentions that the article had been deleted "over and over" by a "crazy administrator" when he has only created the article once and each administrator that deleted the article only deleted it once. This leads me to believe GamingScholar is a sockpuppet of User:Gabrielangel.

GamingScholar has also threatened me in the quote, "I have recorded the details of this event and am prepared to bring it to higher attention if you continue to harass me," where he states to be quite willing to take the issue to "higher attention." Before this gets out of control, I'd like a fellow administrator to evaluate this claim of sockpuppetry. Thanks, Zsinj^Talk 16:13, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Anon user vandalizing and then gaming 3RR for POV purposes

65.208.144.67 (talk · contribs) has been causing trouble at the Salman Pak facility article; beginning with blatant vandalism (also here and here and here). I reverted these attacks, which have an obvious POV component, and the vandal has now resorted to making this change, which is a lot better, but is still an obvious attempt to distort the article by diminishing the content of the quoted material under the heading. (To explain - he changed the heading "Consensus view" to "Columbia Journalism Review." While it is accurate that the quote comes from CJR, it is only notable insofar as it reports the consensus view regarding the topic. I have explained on his talk page what is wrong with his change (albeit a bit angrily at first when his actions were pure vandalism, but I tried to engage in dialogue over the CJR change). He continues to make the change despite the discussion there, and he has been gaming the 3RR, making 4 reverts in 25 hours (see history, 04:29, 23 September 2006 to 05:53, 24 September 2006). He refuses to engage in dialogue on the talk section of the page and refuses to compromise. I feel he should be blocked for gaming the 3RR and for prior vandalism, or at least an admin should explain to him why his actions are uncivil and disruptive to wikipedia.--csloat 17:12, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

I've left 3RR warnings on both usertalk pages. Naconkantari 17:20, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Death threat by Cretanpride

Hi all. I've just received a death threat from the banned User:Cretanpride:

HI Khoikoi, perhaps you have not realized how serious I am about adding my previous edit to that article(homosexuality in ancient Greece). Perhaps you have not realized the length I will go to get it. I will present to you an ultimatum now. Either my last edit stays. The one which shows Bruce Thornton's argument, or a young girl named Emily dies because of your unfairness. Am I bluffing? That's not the question. The question is whether you are willing to take that chance. Do you want this with you the rest of your life? You have 48 hours for the article to change to my previous edit or you can hear about this on the news. I am not asking for much. Just two paragraphs which encompass the truth. I hoped it wouldn't come to this. I have wasted two months of my time, I think I should be rewarded. Its your call.

This is your fault for ignoring me and never considering my edit. You brought this girls death and you are responsible. But you can still save her by simply restoring me edit on homosexuality in ancient Greece. Not too much to ask. Bye. Bye.

This seems pretty serious—can anyone tell me what I should do? Thanks... —Khoikhoi 18:46, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

This seems to require a serious effort on the part of wikipedia sysops and higher authorities to track this individual and send the police there. Even if there is no "emily" this threat is probably a federal crime. And if there is an emily immediate action is required. In the meantime, I would let the edit remain until the police deal with it. --Blue Tie 18:51, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

How did User:Cretanpride send you this message, since he is banned? Did he contact you by e-mail? What evidence do you have that the message was written by User:Cretanpride? —Psychonaut 18:53, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Yes, it was an email. The evidence is because I got into a conflict with his socks Steve88 (talk · contribs) and James577 (talk · contribs) on Homosexuality in ancient Greece. —Khoikhoi 18:57, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Assumming you are concerned enough to believe this might have some shred of a credible threat. Call the office (1-727-231-0101) and hope that someone is reachable on a weekend. Dragons flight 19:08, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Well, I've aleady reverted to his version...isn't that enough? —Khoikhoi 19:09, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

No. Not enough. Make the call. Try hard. (I do not think anyone can appropriately judge the credibility of such a threat without investigation.) --Blue Tie 19:13, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

No, if the threat is real then there is some girl named Emily that is in danger (if not now, then probably in the future). Dragons flight 19:15, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Ok, I've forwarded the email. —Khoikhoi 19:29, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Several people have the email. I hope that some of you are doing more than "Forwarding" the email. --Blue Tie 19:35, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

If this was sent via email, perhaps the email headers will have the senders IP, which can be traced. --Ragib 19:18, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

The email should have a full set of header information available to view. Depending on your mail client and your settings, you may have to jump through one or more hoops to see these headers. (In Microsoft Outlook, for example, I believe you can right-click on the email subject as it shows up in your list of emails, and select "Properties".)

In any case, the headers you are looking for will start off with the word "Received:" There will generally be 3 or 4 of these.

These headers will allow you to trace the origin of the email. The last one, reading from the top down, will usually contain the IP address used to actually send the email. This will give you the ISP used to send the email. After that, it's a phone call to the cops in the jurisdiction of the IP address. In the case of a direct physical threat of death, as in this case, most ISPs will waive the requirement for the cops to provide a subpoena, and will provide the subscriber info in short order.

Hope this helps,

Ξxtreme Unction|_{yakkity yak}

19:24, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Other editors received a similar email: see Talk:Homosexuality_in_ancient_Greece#Disturbed_individual_persists_on_imposing_nationalistic_and_homophobic_views_and_resorts_to_blackmail. The email came from Sam328 (talk · contribs), who's been blocked as a sock of Cretanpride (talk · contribs).

The appropriate authorities have been contacted; in the meanwhile, I don't think we should give in to this guy by including his edits in Homosexuality in ancient Greece. The editor has been engaged in rampant sockpuppetry from the moment he found Wikipedia, and putting in his changes is just telling him that he can get what he wants through disruption. --Akhilleus (talk) 19:38, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

(edit conflict with Akhilleus)

Akhilleus (talk · contribs), Haiduc (talk · contribs), CaveatLector (talk · contribs) and I all received the same message. I've been working on this off-wiki today; I had not planned to reveal this publicly, but Akhilleus and I have a good idea who the individual behind this is, and I have contacted the police department at his university. They are investigating. If anyone wants details on this, please email me; I'd rather not show my full hand in public.

Incidentally, I agree that it's not appropriate to give in to this sort of blackmail. Our moral responsibility goes as far as contacting the police. If we start changing Wikipedia articles based on death threats, that could be a very bad precedent. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 19:43, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Uhh.. if you think your moral responsibility goes only that far and no further, you are in error. Its ok to wait a bit while the investigation goes on. There are no huge problems that will crush us while we wait. It is just an encyclopedia. It is not a life. There may be nothing to the threat, but it does not hurt to wait. Relax. Do the right thing. --Blue Tie 19:54, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Indeed. Threats or no, we can't allow ourselves to be intimidated. --InShaneee 19:47, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Unfortunately, you have not provided any proof that this is from Cretanpride or if the message even exists. How can you prove you are not making this up? Lapinmies 19:45, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

I can forward you the email if you want... —Khoikhoi 19:48, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

I assume you're referring to the legal ramifications, since Khoikhoi is a reliable user. --InShaneee 19:51, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

I am referring to both, e-mails are very dubious evidence, I usually get spam from fake addresses and IPs. It would be a completely different case if there was a edit in wikipedia with the threat. Lapinmies 19:54, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Why would five editors invent a story like this? The email is real. I received it, and have forwarded it, with full headers, to the police. They're handling it. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 19:55, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

If the matter is being handled by the police, they probably would appreciate if there weren't much more on-Wiki discussion until they've finished investigating. I also suggest that you make sure the Office knows exactly what you've done and why. (edit conflict with below: I agree with the page protection also) Newyorkbrad 20:02, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

You may believe me when I say that they don't care. If they have the threat itself and the full set of headers, they have all they need. This discussion won't even ping their radar. Ξxtreme Unction|_{yakkity yak} 20:05, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Well, I've left a message with the office (using the Danny Wool phone number on the "press contact" page). I'll email Jimbo as well, just so he's informed. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 20:14, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Making a belated and, at this point, mostly useless clarification to my statement above. In my preceeding statement "they" == "the police". Thank you for allowing me to indulge my anal-retentive nature. Your forebearance is appreciated. Ξxtreme Unction|_{yakkity yak} 23:07, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Whatever, I have full-protected the page to avoid edit warring on whether to give in to a thread or not, and I suggest it does not get unprotected until this is resolved. -- Kim van der Linde ^{at venus} 20:00, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

I agree with the protection. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 20:14, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

I agree as well. —Khoikhoi 20:17, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Me too: it's the right thing to do.--Aldux 20:20, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Even when you all had not agreed, I would have done it. The police will tell you that rule number one IRL is that you NEVER EVER give in to blackmail. This regardless the threat, as it will just fuel further blackmail. -- Kim van der Linde ^{at venus} 20:29, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

As an aside, police will not always tell you this. It would depend upon the circumstances and in particular the legal and social systems available in the location of the threat. Indeed, there are many instances internationally where the only safe procedure is to submit to demands, and the law enforcement officers will tell you that very quickly. Trite "rules" of conduct, repeated in a safe environment are unhelpful in many real world situations. If any one of you ever has a spouse or child kidnapped by Central American gangs, you had better pay up or your loved one will almost certainly die and the kidnappers/killers will never be caught. This is so true that sometimes a kidnapping does not have to take place, simply a threat of a kidnapping is sufficient to obtain payment and payment is sufficient to avoid kidnapping and the loss of fingers or ears or eyes and such. This is so prevalent that you can purchase Kidnapp and Extortion insurance for overseas travel. The record for return of hostages is quite good... if the payment is made.

Ok, so this was not a real kidnapping and not a real threat to murder. I would not go so far as to say we got lucky because the likelihood of danger was small. Things transpired as probability would have dictated. Kooks abound and are mostly harmless. But I am glad that we did not get an unlucky roll of the cosmic dice. I am glad that we did not face the problem of dealing with the rare case where a kook moves to defcon 5. It feels really satisfying to be all tough and macho -- all the way right up until you actually have to pay the piper.

Oh...wait... what am I thinking? That could never happen.[31] [32] [33] [34] [35]

[36] Never mind. --Blue Tie 00:06, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Yes, there are exceptions. But we are not in Central America. -- Kim van der Linde ^{at venus} 00:28, 25 September 2006 (UTC) (BTW, have you ever negotiated with guerilla's?)

Yeah. It's the exceptions that get ya in trouble though. As far as guerillas... not exactly. But does negotiating with armed Saudi tribesmen to stop beating a person and return him to me count for something like that? --Blue Tie 01:22, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Yes, it counts. If this was a case with say Columbian para-militairy, I would have reacted differently, but we are dealing with a student in the US, which makes things slightly different. -- Kim van der Linde ^{at venus} 01:52, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Update

I've just received another email from Cretanpride. Here it is:

You guys win. I give up. That last email was a joke. You win. I'm never going to edit on that article again.

My guess is that the police found the individual and made him realize how inappropriate the "joke" was.

I've forwarded this message to the police as well. I tried to call them, but the officer who's handling the case isn't available. I left him a message, and will let you all know what I hear. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 20:33, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

I've just received a call from the police officer; it turns out that he wasn't able to verify the identity that I gave him, so the timing of Cretanpride's second email was a coincidence. Given that email, it seems extremely probable that this was a hoax; while making a hoax death threat is still a serious matter, I think that we can all relax a bit now. I'm going to continue to pursue the investigation, but the urgency has diminished. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 22:34, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Can I suggest that if an editor thinks that it's funny or a "joke" to make death threats (however false) that they are not mentally stable enough to be an editor or even own a computer. --Charlesknight 22:39, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

I couldn't possibly concur more. Luckily, he's already indef blocked. --InShaneee 22:51, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

It might be appropriate to update the block log with a more specific block reason, in case anyone ever later thought about unblocking. Also, has a checkuser been run? Newyorkbrad 23:17, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Done, and I have put a notice at the user page. -- Kim van der Linde ^{at venus} 00:41, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

I'd assume so from Khoikhoi's second comment, but a new one may be in order. --InShaneee 23:21, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Has a checkuser been run? Read and weep, my children (and don't forget to scroll down, to see the full litany of horrors). The matter currently being discussed is whether a range block is possible. Unfortunately, Mackensen is the checkuser who knows most about the case, and he's on a wikibreak until Thursday. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 23:46, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Well, maybe today's events will put a different spin on the matter. If it really has been brought home to this user that his recent communications crossed the line and sufficiently worried people here that the police were contacted, then he might now be more receptive to a strongly worded suggestion that under any name, he's not welcome to post here any more. Newyorkbrad 23:51, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps that strongly worded suggestion should be left by someone other than me, since I was a recipient of the email. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 00:03, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

(Unindent) I have not had the experiences you guys have had, so I might not have the right idea. But I sort of hope this fellow recovers and could return with a good heart and wiser edits. I apologize in advance if this offends anyone. --Blue Tie 00:11, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Legal context

I am just back from a friend who is a law enforcment officer, and I asked him to have a look at the e-mail and this tread. Based on that:

1. A threat like this is at least a misdemeanor.
2. Do not give in to it.
3. Take it serious and contact the police.

In most cases, this is just a frustrated person who does not think and tries something, in rare cases, this is serious stuff. -- Kim van der Linde ^{at venus} 00:28, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Cretanpride was already banned before this latest fiasco. If you look at his talk page, you'll see that he was given many chances to do the right thing before I eventually gave him an indefinite block; even before this weekend, that block had morphed into a community ban because of his incessant sockpuppetry and POV-pushing. I'm not offended by your suggestion — indeed, other editors may tell you that I'm sometimes too willing to give abusive editors second chances and the benefit of the tiniest doubt — but it really doesn't apply in this case. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 00:22, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

I saw it, and I have confirmed the indef block for his blackmail attempt by treatening to murder an innocent girl. This is just not ok. -- Kim van der Linde ^{at venus} 00:49, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

I'm completely uninvolved in this but I wanted to compliment everyone involved. Yes, it was 99.9% a fake threat from a little kid who couldn't get his way - but that doesn't mean he doesn't need to be thoroughly beaten with a clue stick. Contacting the police was exactly the right thing to do, if only to get him on their radar when he inevitably begins killing small woodland animals. --Golbez 04:34, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Abusive admins at Front organization

Several admins have been taking their time to revert good, solid edits at Front rganization; they've now found a convenient proxy by which to lock it to their version.

They also left direct threats on the user page of one editor.

Please rectify this, it is exactly this sort of behavior that makes people leave Wikipedia instead of contributing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.114.239.116 (talk • contribs)

Second post: following up, user Naconkantari is trying to hide his involvement by deleting responses left on talk pages. Please rectify this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.114.239.116 (talk • contribs)

How about you try being civil in your edit summaries? This is absolutely not acceptable. Naconkantari 20:33, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

70.114.239.116, you have thrown about personal attacks on editors and edit warred despite the reversions of multiple users. Please become familiar with WP:3RR and use the talk page to discuss such edits instead of edit warring. There appears to be nothing wrong done by the administrators in this issue. Cowman109^Talk 20:35, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

The admin being complained about would be me. Please enjoy the stream of WP:POV-pushing and personal attacks that earned User:70.114.233.87 a block. Presumably User:70.114.239.116 is the same user who has switched IPs to evade that block. I'm not sure what "they've now found a convenient proxy by which to lock it to their version" means. If anyone wants to look into this further, they're welcome. Best, Gwernol 20:38, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

I am not the person that posted those, but the threats left on talk pages by Computerjoe are ridiculous, and it is obvious you are not reading the edits being made. I was working on expanding and fixing the language in the Communist section when it was locked.

This is ridiculous, the POV pushing by admins is ridiculous, and your attempts to hide your abuses are also ridiculous.

It's a big conspiracy, oh noez! Danny Lilithborne 21:44, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Rouge Admin coverup shadow government! --InShaneee 21:50, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Perverted-Justice.com

There have been a series of edits to the article, where the editor edits for the first time, or an anon IP, or where there have only been a few edits and all are of this site. I am suspicious that these are edits from a person, or persons working for the Perverted-Justice.com. I'm not sure if ther IP addresses are genuine, spoofed, or using a proxy server. I don't have much to go on other than the odd feeling. Perhaps admins here may know a way to look into this further? Please see:

• Squaresville
• 221.153.56.253 (Korea)
• 71.206.224.250 (Mt. Laurel, New Jersey)
• 219.32.18.62 (Tokyo, Japan)
• 66.252.253.81 (Alexandria, Minnesota)
• 83.132.162.110 (Lisbon, Portugal)
• 64.223.120.132 (Burlington, Vermont)
• 66.252.250.171 (Alexandria, Minnesota)
• 151.205.53.80 (Morgantown, West Virginia)
• 151.205.40.203 (West Virginia)
• 24.85.0.108 (Winnipeg, Manitoba)
• 4.157.53.66 (Unknown, US)
• 4.157.53.101 (Unknown, US)
• 65.68.74.240 (Houston, Texas)
• 4.157.29.225 (Unknown, US)
• 4.157.29.234 (Unknown, US)
• 4.156.3.197 (Unknown, US)
• 24.181.233.64 (Worcester, Massachusetts)
• 69.239.140.140 (San Luis Obispo, California)
• 63.224.57.186 (Seattle, Washington)

• Not much co-relation on location
• All of them have one, or only a few edits, only to this article, and then never revist it, or wikipedia.
• Some of the comments make it appear that the user has used Wikipedia before ("copyedit", "rv, edit detracts from quality of wiki", "rem. poorly placed and unneeded phrase re interstate commerce", "reduced number of run-on sentences, used more specific legal terminology, edited some phrases for NPOV".)
• Edits seem to be for benefit of "perverted-justic.com", or "Von Ercke", none negative.

Atom 20:39, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

vandalism

User:Justino2578 vandalized Hertz page, see history of the page --Jaapkroe 21:24, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Welcome to Wikipedia, would you like your tylenol for here or to go? Yanksox 21:31, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Now, now, don't medicate the newbies... --InShaneee 22:19, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

These two mean to say that Justino2578 has been blocked. Good catch! :) For future reference, though, try reporting this type of activity to Administrator intervention against vandalism. :) Srose (talk) 23:23, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Being harrassed.

User Havoc is posting on my talk page as if he was a moderator or admin of Wikipedia. I am not complaining about content of any edited article but I do not believe it is appropriate for someone who is not a moderator or admin to punish or inform other users of not meeting criteria as if they were in charge. Employees do not punish other employees. That is what the boss is for. I have deleted his "friendly warnings" and advised him to stop on his talk page but he continued to do so. Hyde v 22:21, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

It's actually entirely appropriate - I've handed out hundreds of warnings and I'm just an editor (1st class lightlap division). You seem to misunderstand the relationship of people here. Administrators are not the "boss", the different between them and normal editors is that they can act upon the warnings that normal editors put on other editor's pages or decide that they have been used incorrectly. As for your particular case, it appears that that Havoc has left two polite and to the point notes informing you that Wikipedia is not a games guide. I have not yet checked the edits and therefore cannot comment upon them (but that's my next action..). --Charlesknight 22:27, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

I did. He is, in fact, correct. --InShaneee 22:29, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

I concur - however I would note that maybe Havoc could have taken a little more time to explain policy to a new editor (and I'll hold my hand up for taking the same road on a number of occassions. --Charlesknight 22:34, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

I guess I just will not post to World of Warcraft articles. Just about everything I have added to Wikipedia has been edited to the point that there was little left of my additions and it is always considered "cruft" or whatever the heck it is called. I do not feel it is my place to admonish other posters for what I perceive is wrong but it appears to be within the rules to do so. I think it would be best if I stopped being so public from now on. Hyde v 22:58, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

No one's 'admonishing' you, nor is this about perceptions. He was simply informing you of a policy you most likely weren't aware of in an attempt to explain why your content was being removed. --InShaneee 23:00, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Further to the above comments. Don't be too hasty, you clearly know your stuff and could make a positive contribution to the project. Let me make a suggestion, take a few days off or maybe a week. When you get back, discuss the edits you want to make on the talkpage with your fellow editors. Once you have been brainwashed... em.. get a bit more use to the policies and practices of Wikipedia, it all gets a bit more straight forward. Please feel free to drop by my talkpage if you want to discuss this further. --Charlesknight 23:06, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Can I drop a sockpuppet report even if I still suspect it's true, or is it out of my hands?

Briefly as possible: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The RCP (Red Car Posse) (a rather unsavory article) became a series of new user votes to save, plus other single purpose accounts vandalizing the user pages and "articles I've created" articles listed on the user pages of those who had voted to delete. It seemed to be getting out of hand so I created this suspected sockpuppet report for the most likely culprit. I was not, at the time, totally convinced that it was just that one user. The article is a vanity article about a group of three friends, and 2 user names and one anon IP have been used to edit it.

User:Zoso2005 responded to the accusation by saying first "it wasn't me" [37]after which I explained how check user works. He then responded that "hackers could have stolen my IP" [38]. After I further explained how unlikely that was, pointed out that one of the three full names listed in the article was probably his and that his school's IT admin could certainly use his IP and a choice of three full names to identify him without a doubt, he agreed to delete the article.[39].

My assumption is that he did this because he realized that it contained personal information that could identify him as a vandal. After some help from me with speedy tags, the article was speedied as {{db-author}}. The other part of my comment was that if he wanted to avoid trouble, he needed to own up to his vandalism and apologize which resulted in this and this. In spite of his refusal to own up and apologize, I no longer think the sockpuppet issue is that important -- and I am open to the possibility, that I pointed out to him, that if he lives in a dorm or something (which I think he does) one or more of his friends could have perpetrated the vandalism on his IP. I'm not totally sold, but it's a possibility. Either way, I suspect if a checkuser goes through, he will be blocked, and as he seems (somewhat) mollified by the trouble he got himself into, I don't really think he'll be trouble anymore. However, I'd really like some admins opinions.

Also, even if I wanted to (and I'm not sure I do), I'm not sure if its okay to just delete my own suspected sock puppet report. (particularly as I think it's pretty open-and-shut) Thanks for your time. Dina 23:22, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Steve Willis' Sockpuppet Theater

According to the Steve Willis article, created a few days ago, Steve Willis is a "radio presenter" in Wolverhampton, who "attended Dormston School in Sedgley", and "has sat in for Adrian Kennedy on Dublin's FM104 phoneshow" . He also "appearedd on the Late Late Show".

Some interesting edits happened during the last week. Here's the cast of characters in order of appearance :

• 82.37.179.220 (talk • contribs • WHOIS) doesn't like the imperial system, he prefers the metric system. He started his life on wikipedia (on the 16th) editing out unit translation in the imperial system from an article related to radio broadcasting. The next day, he does the same in the article about Sedgley. So far so good. On the 18th, we first encounter edits about a Steve Willis, added to the notable alumni of the Dormston School article (diff) as well as the Angelus one (diff) where we even get the url of his website. On the 19th, this is the turn of the Sedgley article to feature Steve Willis (diffs 1, 2 & 3).

• VickyRoper (talk • contribs) appears on the 19th. A first edit is to Dormston School where a certain Steve Willis is added to the notable alumni (diff) (edit by IP had been reverted). She also makes an edit to the List of radio stations in the United Kingdom (diff) about a FM radio in Wolverhampton. No more edit from her.

• EmmaWaldren (talk • contribs) makes her appearance on the 20th. Her first edit is to Angelus (diff) where we learn a certain radio in Wolverhampton is broadcasting the Angelus each sunday just before ... the "Steve Willis programme". She also edits Sedgley (diff) to add the name of Steve Willis (the previous addition had been reverted). See a pattern yet ? Her next edits will be to Talk:Sedgley where a user who had reverted the edit again makes interesting observations (check the talk page).

• Back to User:82.37.179.220 on the 21th with an edit on ... Talk:Sedgley (diff), he seems a little confused as to who he is. Coincidently, immediately comes User:EmmaWaldren who adds her sig to the reply written from the IP (diff). No more contribution from Emma to Wikipedia after that.

• Paul-Johnson (talk • contribs). His first edit ever on the 22th is a new article : Steve Willis. He also uploads the picture of Steve Willis (with permission of Willis by email he claims [40]).

• Roy Wedge (talk • contribs) (contribs) makes his appearance on the 24th. He adds information about Steve appearing on the Late Late Show to the Steve Willis page (diff), adds Steve to the Late Late Show page (diff), and corrects the url of Steve's webpage (diff). No more edits from him.

• The Steve Willis article is sent to Afd on the 24th (Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Steve Willis). 'Keep' comments are added by various users : User:ClaireLMillington (contribs], User:SineadNiNeachtain (contribs), our anon User:82.37.179.220, and User:Beetroot1 (contribs). All but our anon only have edits related to the AfD and they want to keep the article. Claire's first edit was to erase the AfD entry (diff). User:Paul-Johnson also commented.

• I ommited a couple edits from User:82.37.179.220 on the 24th, still obssessed by Steve Willis, whose name is added to the 1974 page (diff), and to the FM104 page (diff).

I think Steve's show deserves a round of applauses.

Anyway, we have someone here making a farce out of the editing process of Wikipedia, as well as the AfD process currently going on on this entry. I'm not sure what actions should be taken, I'll leave that up to the Wikipedians reviewing this. I'm also not completely sure AN/I is the right place for such a report, so please tell me where to post this if it's not. Equendil Talk 00:23, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Some more fun:

• Beetroot1 (talk • contribs) has blanked the Afd page (diff). Equendil Talk 00:37, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Sam Harris (singer)

The Sam Harris (singer) article is being used for advertising. 24.60.26.138 repeatedly put in content from [41] which is a blatant copyright violation. He claimed to be affiliated with the site, which is even worse because at that point it becomes vanity. He has since been given a 48 hour block, but has returned with a new IP, 66.212.134.173, and added in the same copyrighted material. Can the page be protected or something? I feel that this user is going to keep coming back and using Wikipedia for promotional means. IrishGuy ^talk 01:27, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Page temporarily sprotected. Please correct the article to conform to established guidelines and policies. Thanks. ~Kylu (u|t) 01:32, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. IrishGuy ^talk 01:38, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

User:Glengordon01

His user page looks to me like a violation of WP:NPA and WP:CIVIL, specifically at [[User:Glengordon01#Wikipedia as a social experiment#Troll wins at Charun]]. I requested that he tone it down and he refused User talk:Glengordon01#Please change your user page.

This is an outgrowth of a dispute at Talk:Charun that went through WP:3O and Wikipedia:Wikiquette alerts and Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Glengordon01. After I opened the user conduct RfC Glengordon01 became hostile toward me (I'm one of the people named on his talk page) so I've about run out of options. I'd like to request special care in this instance: while this editor's conduct steps over the line, his scholarship seems to be quite good - it's the sort of interpretive reading that would be fine in a university term paper but falls on the wrong side of WP:NOR. Would an administrator lend a hand, please? Regards, Durova 02:40, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Other than the personal attacks, I think his essay is pretty good. --Blue Tie 03:37, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Agreed. Would an administrator address the personal attacks, please? I don't view myself as particularly attacked, but Scottandrewhutchins was distressed and wrote to my talk page. I agreed this steps over the line and asked him to let third parties handle this. Durova 05:20, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Another thewolfstar sock

220.68.74.149 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log) This diff says it all:[42]. Ungovernable Force^{Got something to say?} 02:56, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Should be blocked, but I think in the future you shouldn't respond to his messages. Don't entertain him. —Khoikhoi 03:11, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

And another: 211.192.251.157 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log). Ungovernable Force^{Got something to say?} 03:31, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Based on the IPInfo and Traceroute tools on the IP talk pages, it looks like Maggie's using Korean proxies. Maggie's obsession with disrupting Wikipedia is getting a little frightening. I really wish she had given up with WhiskeyRebellion. Captainktainer * Talk 03:46, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Disruptive editing..?

Can an admin take a look at edits from KrishnaVindaloo and have an opinion on his "collaborative process"..? I think it borders on "disruptive editing"... I am also wondering if it's a sockpuppet, the user only edits one topic. Thanks!--Travisthurston 03:50, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Kelly Martin

So did User:Kelly Martin quit Wikipedia? Or just resign her admin position? How do we know she won't just come back on a whim? Or am I reading this wrong? --GreenCommander81 05:21, 25 September 2006 (UTC)