Template talk:Did you know

For discussion of the "Did you know" section, see Wikipedia talk:Did you know.

Exterior of the Stonewall Inn ... that after the original Stonewall Inn (modern building pictured) closed in 1969, its space was used by a bagel shop, a Chinese restaurant, and a clothing store? ... that baseball player Shane Rawley has published a novel? ... that the Cat Empire's 2023 album Where the Angels Fall features contributions from 75 musicians and 49 instruments? ... that Sara Houcke began performing in circuses at the age of two as a child clown? ... that a man was denaturalized and deported from the United States for working at a Nazi death camp, despite the courts never holding that he did it willingly? ... that Joy was the sole survivor of the Romanov family's execution? ... that Black Sheep Radio dedicated its first day of programming to a fallen pirate? ... that The Penguin History of Modern China profiled the Christian General, whose army moved to the beat of "Hark! The Herald Angels Sing"? ... that in the Great Alaskan Lumberjack Show, the performers scale a 50-foot (15 m) tree and then free fall?

This page is for nominations to appear in the "Did you know" section (reproduced on the right) on the Main Page.

Did you know?
Introduction and rules
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Instructions

List new suggestions here, under the date the article was created or the expansion began (not the date you submit it here), with the newest dates at the top. If a suitable image is available, place it immediately before the suggestion. Any user may nominate a DYK suggestion; self-nominations are permitted and encouraged.

Remember:

• Proposed articles should:
  • not be marked as stubs;
  • contain more than 1,500 characters (around 1.5 kilobytes) in main body text (ignoring infoboxes, categories, references, lists, and tables). This is a mandatory minimum; in practice, articles longer than 1,500 characters may still be rejected as too short, at the discretion of the selecting administrators.
  • cite their sources (these sources should be properly labelled; that is, not under an "External links" header); and
  • be no more than five days old (former redirects, stubs, or other short articles whose main body text has been expanded fivefold or more within the last five days are acceptable).
• Articles on living individuals must be carefully checked to ensure that no unsourced or poorly sourced negative material is included. Articles and hooks which focus unduly on negative aspects of living individuals should be avoided.
• Articles with good references and citations are preferred.
• To count the number of characters in a piece of text, you will need to use a JavaScript extension like User:Dr pda/prosesize.js (instructions on the talk page), a free website like this, or an external software program that has a character-counting feature. For example, if you are using Microsoft Word, select the text from the article page (or, in the case of "Did you know" nominations, this Talk page) – not the edit page containing Wikitext – then copy and paste it into a blank document. Click "Tools" ("Review" in Office 2007), then "Word Count", and note the "Characters (with spaces)" figure. Other word processing programs may have a similar feature. For Mac users, Apple has a Word counter widget available for Mac OS X 10.4 or later. Note: The character counts indicated on "Revision history" pages are not accurate for DYK purposes as they include categories, infoboxes and similar text in articles, and comments and signatures in hooks on this page.
• Suggested facts (the 'hook') should be:
  • interesting to draw in a variety of readers,
  • short and concise (fewer than about 200 characters, including spaces),
  • neutral,
  • definite facts that are mentioned in the article, and
  • always cited in the article with an inline citation.

Please note that hooks are subject without notice to copyediting as they move to the main page. The nature of the DYK process makes it impractical to consult users over every such edit. In particular, hooks will be shortened if they are deemed too long: the 200-character limit is an outside limit not a recommended length. Also, watch the suggestions page to ensure that no issues have been raised about your hook, because if you do not respond to issues raised your hook may not be featured at all.

• Suggested pictures should be:
  • suitably and freely (PD, GFDL, CC etc) licensed (NOT fair use) because the main page can only have freely licensed pictures;
  • attractive and interesting, even at a very small (100px-wide) resolution;
  • already in the article; and
  • relevant to the article.
  • formatted as [[Image:image name |right|100x100px| Description]] and placed directly above the suggested fact.
• Suggested sounds should have similar qualities to pictures, and should be formatted using the format {{DYK Listen|filename.ogg|Brief description}}

• Proposed lists should have two characteristics to be considered for DYK: (i) be a compilation of entries that are unlikely to have ever been compiled anywhere else (e.g. List of architectural vaults), and (ii) have 1,500+ character non-stub text that brings out interesting, relational, and referenced facts from the compiled list that may not otherwise be obvious but for the compilation.
• Please sign the nomination, giving due credit to other editors if relevant. For example:
  • *... that (text)? -- new article by [[User]]; Nom by ~~~~
  • *... that (text)? -- new article self-nom by ~~~~
  • *... that (text)? -- new article by [[User]] and ~~~~
  • *... that (text)? -- Article expanded fivefold by [[User]]; Nom by ~~~~
  • *... that (text)? -- Article expanded fivefold and self-nom by ~~~~
  • *... that (text)? -- Article expanded fivefold by [[User]] and ~~~~
• When saving your suggestion, please add the name of the suggested article to your edit summary.
• Please check back for comments on your nomination. Responding to reasonable objections will help ensure that your article is listed.
• If you nominate someone else's article, you can use {{subst:DYKNom}} to notify them. Usage: {{subst:DYKNom|Article name|June 28}} Thanks, ~~~~
• For more details see the previously Unwritten Rules.

Symbols

• If you want to confirm that an article is ready to be placed on a later update, or that there is an issue with the article or hook, you may use the following symbols (optional) to point the issues out:

Symbol	Code	Ready for DYK?	Description
	{{subst:DYKtick}}	Yes	No problems, ready for DYK
	{{subst:DYKtickAGF}}	Yes	Article is ready for DYK, with a foreign-language or offline hook reference accepted in good faith
	{{subst:DYK?}}	Query	An issue needs to be clarified before the article's eligibility can be determined. You may use {{DYKproblem}} to notify the nominator
	{{subst:DYK?no}}	Maybe	Article is currently ineligible but may only need some minor work to fix. You may use {{DYKproblem}} to notify the nominator
	{{subst:DYKno}}	No	Article is either completely ineligible, or else requires considerable work before becoming eligible

Backlogged?

This page often seems to be backlogged. If the DYK template has not been updated for substantially more than 6 hours, it may be useful to attract the attention of one of the administrators who regularly updates the template. See the page Wikipedia:Did you know/Admins for a list of administrators who have volunteered to help with this project.

Candidate entries

Articles created/expanded on November 14

... that Hurricane Boris was the first hurricane of the 2008 Pacific hurricane season? Leave Message ,Yellow Evan home ,Sandbox Happy Veterans day`

• ...that, on christmas eve 1942, the German 17th Panzer Division had only eight tanks and one anti-tank gun left after its failed attempt to break through to Stalingrad?
  • OR (alt hook) ...that the German 17th Panzer Division, within the first month of Operation Barbarossa, had one commander seriously wounded and another one killed in action? five-fold expanded article, self-nom EA210269 (talk) 05:10, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Articles created/expanded on November 13

• ... that the author of Autism's False Prophets, a critique of claims that autism is linked to vaccines, declined to do a book tour after receiving death threats and threats against his children? new article by MastCell (talk · contribs), nom. by cbl62 (talk · contribs)

• ... that Florence Wald, former Dean of Yale School of Nursing, has been credited as "the mother of the American hospice movement"? -- five-fold expansion, self-nom by Alansohn (talk) 03:25, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that the critically endangered Golden White-eye (pictured) of Saipan is threatened by a snake that eliminated all the forest birds of nearby Guam? (self nom of Polbot created stub) Sabine's Sunbird talk 02:13, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• Length and creation date fine (moved from the Nov 14 section), one fact verified and the other ref accepted on good faith. Jamie^☆S93 03:12, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that director Robert Rossen's 1935 play The Body Beautiful, despite running only four performances, so impressed Warner Bros. director Mervyn LeRoy that LeRoy signed Rossen to a screenwriting contract?

(alt) ... that after initially refusing to testify in 1951, director Robert Rossen named 57 people as Communists to the House Un-American Activities Committee in 1953 to escape the Hollywood blacklist? - self-nom, article expnded 5x today. Otto4711 (talk) 23:24, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that Joe Hyams' first celebrity interview, with Humphrey Bogart, came after a chance meeting with Bogart's press agent at the pool of The Beverly Hills Hotel? -- new article self-nom by Alansohn (talk) 22:29, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
  • OR (alt hook) *... that Hollywood columnist Joe Hyams coauthored Accomplices to the Crime: The Arkansas Prison Scandal, a 1969 nonfiction account that was the basis for the 1980 film Brubaker starring Robert Redford? -- new article, self nom by Alansohn (talk) 22:31, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
    • Verified. Prefer the first hook. The article does rely mostly on the NYT source, but what the heck, I've been a grouch for long enough today, and the article is reasonably well-written anyway. —Politizer ^talk/_contribs 23:00, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
      • I will expand it over time, adding as much dirt as I can find ;) Alansohn (talk) 03:25, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that the turnout in the 1997 Pakistani general election was the lowest ever in Pakistan? New article, Self nom. Davewild (talk) 22:14, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
  • Length, history, hook, refs all good. —Politizer ^talk/_contribs 23:01, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that song "Hell March" from the soundtrack of the video game Command & Conquer: Red Alert was recently featured on popular BBC TV show, Top Gear? self nom by Cabe6403 ^{(Talk•Sign!)} 16:46, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
  • (alt to avoid piping:) ... that the song "Hell March" from the soundtrack of the video game Command & Conquer: Red Alert was recently featured on the BBC TV show Top Gear? —Politizer ^talk/_contribs 17:29, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that Cyril Hilsum is the only scientist to have held both the Faraday Medal and Glazebrook Medal? 3295 chars, and this one may cause a problem; the previous article was written in an irregular list format. If you include the "listed" information the article in its current state does not beat the five-fold expansion rule, but I've always been led to believe lists don't count. Nevertheless I'm fine with you kicking this DYK out; you can find a "before" version here. Ironholds (talk) 15:23, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
  • Technically it is a 5x expansion if you go by official counts done by page size. But as you pointed out, a lot of the editing was in converting a bulleted list into prose, rather than actually adding new information...so the expansion seems to be more of a change in how the article is counted, than an actual expansion. —Politizer ^talk/_contribs 17:31, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
    • There is an open (unresolved?) Copyright thread at DYK talk mentioning Ironholds. -- Suntag ☼ 18:40, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
      • Yes, one that isn't related to this in any way. If you've read the thread you'll know it is ODNB related; if you've read the article you'll know it doesn't reference the DB at all. Politzer: I actually scrapped the information (I prefer to remove all unreferenced crud if possible and start over to avoid BLP issues with it remaining) but I appreciate some of the content may be the same. Ironholds (talk) 20:47, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
        • • Based on my glance at it, there is some new stuff and summary, but also a lot of the new prose is writing out what used to be the lists (for example, the bulleted list of awards has turned into "he won X in 1967 and Y in 1970 and Z in 1975" or something like that). The only way to ascertain the true extent of the expansion would be for a reviewer to go through and individually pick apart every fact that can be traced back to the original list and every fact that can't and then do a count based on the facts that can't...and that is a job that I have no intention of doing (although if any other reviewers want to do it, don't hesitate to undo my DYKno and jump in there). I think this is one of those instances where it's just not worth the amount of labor it would take to figure out how big the expansion was. (Maybe this is some still-unwritten corollary of Unwritten rule A3.) —Politizer ^talk/_contribs 23:05, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that Suraj Tal, Lake of the Sun God, located at a high altitude of 4950 m below the summit of Bara-lacha-la Pass in the Lahaul and Spiti Valley is the highest lake in India?--Nvvchar (talk) 15:17, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
  • This hook gives a lot more stats and information than we need. I will suggest a new hook later, but there are other things that need to be worked on first: the article needs to be copyedited by a native English speaker (which might be me; we'll see where the evening takes me) and the refs need to be cleaned up. There may be peacock terms (and weasel words in the Tourist section); I cleared some out just now but I haven't had time to go through the whole thing. —Politizer ^talk/_contribs 23:10, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
    • I have made amends by reducing the text and removing weasel words. Thanks for editing the references and also the text--Nvvchar (talk) 02:07, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that Major League Baseball pitchers Jim Palmer and Mike Mussina each made six Opening Day starts for the Baltimore Orioles? -- new article self-nom by Rlendog (talk) 04:19, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that the Confederate Monument (pictured) in Murray, Kentucky, is the only Civil War Monument in Kentucky to prominently feature Robert E. Lee?(created by --Gen. Bedford ^{his Forest} 04:16, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that French anarchist and writer Charles Malato had a Neapolitan grandfather who suppressed a popular insurrection as commander-in-chief of the army of the last King of Naples? Self-nom by the skomorokh 00:37, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
  • Good hook, article length and history verified. But how do you know the insurrection his grandfather suppressed was the particular insurrection you've linked to? I couldn't find that in the sources. —Politizer ^talk/_contribs 00:47, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
    • Did a little reading, extrapolated, winged it; if it's not to your taste, junk it, ain't no thing. Mahalo, the skomorokh 01:17, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
      • Hm...you're probably right, but just in case (in the off-chance that there was some crazy rebellion none of us know about), I think we should go more generic in the hook. I've replaced the piped Revolutions of 1848 in the Italian states with Insurgency... the hook itself still looks the same. But now we're all good and verified. —Politizer ^talk/_contribs 01:31, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
        • Verified, as per my above comment. —Politizer ^talk/_contribs 01:32, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
          • Great, thanks, keep up the good work! the skomorokh 05:04, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that the Honolulu High-Capacity Transit Corridor Project led to Honolulu's 2008 mayoral elections being referred to as a "referendum on rail transit"? -- new article self-nom by Musashi1600 (talk) 09:51, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• Yep, reference 28 checks out. Verified. — RyanCross (talk) 03:49, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• …that the 1916 film Cenere contains the only cinematic performance by the Italian theater star Eleanora Duse? (self-nom) Ecoleetage (talk) 19:18, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that Sebastian Kohlhase was formerly a first-class cricketer, and is now a prominent sports administrator and businessman in Samoa? -- new article by Wisems; Nom by It Is Me Here (talk) 21:07, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• The article is only 1057 characters of content. Please expand further to over 1500 characters. — RyanCross (talk) 03:44, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

File:The Womman Taken in Adultery.JPG

• ... that The Woman Taken in Adultery was forged by Han_Van_Meegeren and sold to Nazi Germany in 1945 in return for 200 Dutch paintings seized by the Nazis, for which Meegeren thought himself a national hero? New Article and Nom by Imperat§ r^(Talk) 01:38, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

afterthought - Maybe I should remove that last bit...Imperat§ r^(Talk) 01:38, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• Now I've removed the rather sneaky copyvio from the National Gallery London (now ref 1), too short. Johnbod (talk) 05:17, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Articles created/expanded on November 12

• ... that the Flekkefjord Line (pictured) was built to be part of the main line from Stavanger to Oslo, but a change of plans made it only a branch line? —created and partially referenced by User:Sjakkalle, additional work and ref by myself, Arsenikk ^(talk) 23:23, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that Indian historian and Dravidologist K. A. Nilakanta Sastri served as the Director of UNESCO's Institute of Traditional Culture?-self-nom by-Ravichandar_{My coffee shop} 19:38, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that American colonialists James Franklin and Ann Smith Franklin established Rhode Island's first printing press? (James/new/selfnom; Ann/expanded/selfnom) BTW, if you'd like to split these two apart, there are snappier hook possibilities. --Rosiestep (talk) 18:56, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• alt-1A ... that American colonialist James Franklin introduced "yellow journalism" to Boston? --Rosiestep (talk) 21:45, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
• alt-1B ... that almanac printer Ann Smith Franklin was the first woman inducted into the University of Rhode Island's Journalism Hall of Fame? --Rosiestep (talk) 21:45, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that American anthropologist Richard Price was one of the first to show that Maroons, previously considered largely "without history," possessed rich and deep historical consciousness? -- new article by User:Lcyarrington; nom by Bruce1ee^talk 14:00, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
  • Good hook. Offline ref accepted in good faith. Length, history, and sourcing all good. —Politizer ^talk/_contribs 17:33, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that species from the underground-dwelling mushroom genus Gautieria are the preferred food source of the Northern flying squirrel? new article, self-nom by Sasata (talk) 03:49, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

Pls bold the link to the DYK candidate article. --76.64.77.189 (talk) 15:11, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

- done Sasata (talk) 15:54, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that Zeno Vendler's model of lexical aspect, first proposed in 1959, is still widely used in multiple areas of linguistic research today? 5x expansion by self, —Politizer ^talk/_contribs 00:14, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
  • It's hard to think of an interesting hook for an article mostly on linguistic philosophy, but I just figured I'd try. Please feel free to suggest a better hook of you can think of one. —Politizer ^talk/_contribs 00:14, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
    • Expansion and date good, offline refs accepted in good faith. I think your hook is fine as it is --Bruce1ee^talk 14:38, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that Beijing Communist Party chief Li Ximing was a leading supporter of military action against the Tiananmen Square protests of 1989 that resulted in the deaths of hundreds to thousands of protesters? -- new article, self nom by Alansohn (talk) 23:46, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
  • Oh hell no. Just because the guy died 4 days ago doesn't mean BLP is immediately thrown out the window (in fact, it probably means we should be even a little more respectful than usual). There's no way we can feature a person's name on the main page saying "HEY THIS GUY KILLED THOUSANDS OF PPLZ." Maybe if you suggest another hook we can look at this. —Politizer ^talk/_contribs 00:17, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
    • Some clarification (and apologies for my yucky language—I struck it out because I immediately realized that this nom has more gray area than it appeared to at first). If Li played the role in Tiananmen that your article says he did (I'm not saying you're wrong, I just haven't had a chance to look at the sources yet), then we can all agree that he was probably a pretty bad dude as far as history is concerned. But suggesting this hook so recently after his death makes it look as if you (or we) were just sitting around waiting for him to die so we could say bad stuff about him. (Of course, the more likely is probably just that there was a bunch of stuff in the news about him because he died, and that's what brought him to your attention...still, that doesn't change what this looks like). And even if we did run a hook like this, there has got to be a more sensitive way to put it; even with people who we know (or at least think) are nasty people, we still need to remain neutral. —Politizer ^talk/_contribs 00:23, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
      • Full disclosure. I will admit that I have started trolling the Deaths in 2008 article and the Obituary page at The New York Times website as sources for new articles that should exist and expansion of ones that are already active. An obituary usually categorizes details about someone that are unobtainable while they are alive. I will also disclose that I am not Chinese (and I am not of Asian ancestry, despite a surname that is also common in Korea), that I am a supporter of democracy in general, and that I supported the protesters in Tiananmen Square in 1989 from my comfortable seat in front of a computer in the United States. I personally feel that China could have been a very different country if it had responded differently to these protests and the number of protesters killed shocks my conscience. All that said, I did my sincere best to remain neutral while writing the article. While I did include details about the results of the military crackdown, and discussed Li's support of the Army's actions, I did not assign blame to Li for the deaths or their number. Nor did I assign blame in the hook, though the 200-word limit makes what I wrote a bit more potentially ambiguous. While I am sure that the article and the hook could benefit from improvement, I still stand behind the hook and the article it leads to. Alansohn (talk) 02:04, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
        • That's all fair. I suggest we just wait for another reviewer to come in and judge whether or not the hook needs to be changed. —Politizer ^talk/_contribs 02:18, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
          • I think dropped the last bit would not harm the effectiveness of the hook, while removing the BLP concern. Circeus (talk) 02:54, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

I am going to go ahead and give a thumbs up. The hook is well supported and in my opinion neutral. I'm inclined to assume WP:Good Faith as well in regards to the nominators actions. Length, date, references, and hook verified.Nrswanson (talk) 02:33, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

POV fork - The "thousands" portion in the hook is speculation. Also, "of hundreds to thousands of" reads too closely to "hundreds of thousands" (100,000s). Also, the article is not a biography. It seems to read: -- Li Ximing was born in 1926. For the next sixty three years, he didn't do anything and had no parents, wife, or children. Then he killed hundreds of people. Then he died. -- This POV fork should be merged into Tiananmen Square protests of 1989, not put on Wikipedia's Main Page. -- Suntag ☼ 12:30, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

A POV fork of what? This article was created from scratch, using an obituary from the Associated Press published in The New York Times (Click here for the version in the Times or see here for the AP's original text). The AP didn't provide any details regarding his education, hobbies, parents, spouse, children, friends, acquaintances, social organizations, philanthropic contributions, military service or job history that might have fleshed out this article, nor were there any anecdotes about his background that might have livened up the article. The official Xinhua News Agency was no more helpful in their article on his death (here). Using the AP obituary as a base, I searched for other articles -- some based on what I found in the AP obituary and others based on what I found in the New York Times archive -- and provided descriptions of Li and his actions in neutral terms. The AP, hardly a POV institution, described the result of the military response as "Hundreds, possibly thousands, were killed in the action, most of them ordinary citizens seeking to block the troops’ advance." I tried various rewordings to reflect the discrepancies in the number of victims, but "many" was far too vague, and picking either "hundreds" or "thousands" would provide tacit acceptance of one account and ignore the other, either way. At no point in the article or in the hook have I stated that "he killed hundreds of people"; the article (and hook) state that he supported military action, and that the military action resulted in hundreds or (not of) thousands of deaths. The one possibly useful element of the AP obituary that I did not include in the Wikipedia article was a statement that he previously had been a "longtime bureaucrat in the power and water conservancy fields" but I could find nothing to work with to expand this, nor would it have fleshed out his character. The article I wrote for Li is properly sourced, written neutrally and in direct proportion to the prioritization that the AP believes is appropriate. As with all articles I have created, I hope and expect that others will come along to add material and expand the article. I again stand behind what I have written as being in full compliance with any and all Wikipedia policies. If anyone has any questions or issues about this article, they can be addressed by editing the article or discussing the issue on the article's talk page. If there is any perceived policy violation, there are noticeboards for every policy where the claims can be considered. If anyone believes that Li is not independently notable, then WP:AFD would be the place to take it. Alansohn (talk) 13:50, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

Personally, I don't think the article itself needs to be moved, although I maintain that it should not be put on the main page. Articles can be good but still not appropriate for the main page; look what happened with Who's Nailin' Paylin a few days ago. It's one thing to have this article sitting around; it's another thing to take the single most negative thing from the article (wording it in a way so as to make it more negative, what with the "hundreds to thousands of deaths") and shout it from the rooftops by putting it prominently on the main page. Having an article (or at least a subsection of the Tiananmen article) contributes to the amount of factual information in the encyclopedia, and that's good; distilling it into on negative fact (don't get me wrong, we can all agree that what we did something pretty bad, but that doesn't change the fact that featuring it is very negative) just seems to be mean-spirited. (Again, I'm not meaning to call you mean-spirited; I'm just saying that's the way this hook comes off. You are an excellent and prolific contributor; it's just this hook that I disagree with.) —Politizer ^talk/_contribs 15:25, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

I highly disagree with politizer's take on this. In this case the hook contains the essential information that makes this person notable enough to have an wikipedia article in the first place. The hook features the most well known and highly publicized fact about this individual. To suggest that this is somehow unfair or biased just because it is negative sets a bad precedent here at DYK. In the case of Who's Nailin' Paylin, we had the more pressing need to avoid promoting a commericial product that was about to be released. The other side of it was an obvious issue of tact and taste which doesn't exactly apply here. We have featured articles on serial killers and other people with negative hooks so I don't think there is a precedent already in place to deny this one a DYK.Nrswanson (talk) 17:34, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

Nrswanson has a good point; I do disagree, though, that there the "issue of tact and taste" doesn't apply here, as I think we still need to be tactful about a hook this sensitive, given the recency of the person's death. Anyway, I am not going to try to outright prevent anyone from promoting this article as I have too much vested interest in it now; I just wanted to throw my two cents in as to why I disagree with it. —Politizer ^talk/_contribs 17:47, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

If Li Ximing was known for something other than Tiananmen Square than I might agree with you. But as it is, this is really the only interesting thing about the subject. Also, tact and taste with regards to a hook about an individual who has recently died is very different than tact and taste in regards to an article about pornography. In the case of Li Ximing the questions are really revolving around the language and content of the hook and not so much whether the main page of wikipedia should link to his article at all. In the case of porn, we are questioning not the hook but whether the main page should link to articles about pornography at all. Two very different contexts. See the current discussion about porn on the DYK talk page.Nrswanson (talk) 18:04, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, that's part of the reason I revoked my initially very strong reaction to the hook...I was going to just reject it, but once I looked at the article and then noticed there's not much else to say about the guy, it made the issue much less black-and-white. Anyway, I've said everything I can, and what to do with this hook is not my decision, so I'll shut up now. —Politizer ^talk/_contribs 18:12, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

galoshes

• ... that Leverett Candee became the first person in the world to manufacture rubber footwear (pictured)? new article, self nom by --Doug Coldwell ^talk 22:11, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
  • Length and date good, offline hook refs accepted in good faith, image confirmed as free. I adjusted the footwear link. --Bruce1ee^talk 05:57, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that author Tom De Haven attended Catholic school in Bayonne, New Jersey with fellow writer George R. R. Martin? -- new article self-nom by Arcayne (^{cast a spell}) 21:39, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
  • wikilinked location and fellow author. Alansohn (talk) 23:46, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that George J. Seabury with Robert Wood Johnson I developed a medicated adhesive plaster (pictured) with a rubber base as a precursor to the Johnson & Johnson Band-aid? new article, self nom by --Doug Coldwell ^talk 21:21, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... first Lionel Baker is the first cricketer from Montserrat to represent the West Indies senior side at international level? -- new article self-nom by Nev1 (talk) 21:04, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that Tom Hunt, who served as chairman of Hunt Petroleum, flew on a B-24 Liberator representing the 380th Bomb Group during a flyover of Tokyo Bay to mark the Japanese surrender on the USS Missouri? -- new article, self nom by Alansohn (talk) 18:50, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that Maharana Pratap Sagar or Pong Dam Lake, created by the highest earthfill dam in India on the Beas River, intercepts migratory birds on their trans-Himalayan fly path during each migration season?--Nvvchar (talk) 17:10, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that at the inauguration of the Templo Mayor in 1487, Ahuizotl ordered the sacrifice of so many prisoners that the stairs of the pyramid were literally bathed in blood? Self nom by Thelmadatter (talk) 17:03, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that other than visits to other institutions as a guest lecturer, James Feast lectured at the University of Durham for over 35 years? New article, self-nom, over 1,500. It was a pleasure to write, too. Ironholds (talk) 16:56, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that controversial wine writer Malcolm Gluck has declared cork taint "a serial killer of good wine"? -- new article self-nom by MURGH ^disc. 15:27, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

(alt) ... that wine writer Malcolm Gluck has been involved in a row with Salman Rushdie over who is the quicker book-signer? hook by Victuallers (talk) 15:34, 12 November 2008 (UTC) I don't think anyone thought tainted corks were a good thing, obviously tainted corks are bad. So I suggest :(alt) ... that wine writer Malcolm Gluck has been involved in a row with Salman Rushdie over who is the quicker book-signer? hook by Victuallers (talk) 15:34, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that Sir Philip Cohen has written over 470 peer-reviewed papers, and was the third most cited academic in the UK during the 1990s? Over 1,500, over five-fold expansion (300 chars of text to 2,800 chars of text), self nom. Ironholds (talk) 14:14, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

- expansion fine, ref ok, no pic, original and on date. Thanks ... another good'un Victuallers (talk) 15:28, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

QV.1

• ... that architect Harry Seidler described Perth skyscraper QV.1 (pictured) as the best building he had ever built? -- self-nom de-stubbed (5x) - Mark 14:05, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that John Daly, a New York City criminal, was rumored to be paying $100,000 a week in protection money to the New York Police Department in the late 1800s? Nomination from AfC. TN‑X-Man 14:00, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that in Norse mythology, Sinmara is a female companion of Surtr, leader of the fire jötnar at Ragnarök? Complete rewrite and 5x expansion. Self-nomination. :bloodofox: (talk) 13:20, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

• - more than fivefold expansion on this date (134 characters to 1646), hook is below 200 characters, offline reference accepted in good faith. - Mark 03:15, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
• actually on second glance the article lacks specific inline citation for what is asserted in the hook. Can this be fixed, please? - Mark 03:18, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that Gwilym Davies was the first person to broadcast in Welsh, on St David's Day 1923? new / self-nom Bencherlite^Talk 11:23, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that Vicki Berger's father created the Oregon Bottle Bill, and she was responsible for amending it 36 years later? (self) Aboutmovies (talk) 10:12, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that most of the place names in Palestine are Arabised words with ancient Semitic roots that were preserved by the local indigenous population, facilitating their identification with biblical sites? (self-nom, new article) Tiamut^talk 05:56, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Eduard August von Regel

• ... that Eduard August von Regel (pictured), a 19th century German botanist, named and described over 3000 new plant species? -- new article, self-nom by Earthdirt (talk) 04:45, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
  • The article is currently only 1187 characters of prose. Can you add some more to get it to above 1500? --Bruce1ee^talk 07:46, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
    • How about now? I prose-ified some of it and expanded his history section, and another ref. It is now at 2,311 bytes.Earthdirt (talk) 18:31, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
      • That's better, thank you. Length and date good, offline hook refs accepted in good faith, image confirmed as free. --Bruce1ee^talk 05:25, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that Augustin Trébuchon was shot 15 minutes before the end of the First World War? The army ordered him to attack even though the armistice had been signed. He was carrying a message reading "Your food will be ready at 11.30." -- new article self-nom by Les woodland (talk) 04:42, 12 November 2008 (UTC)les woodland

• No qualifying article. Article does not even exist, nor does it ever seem to have (as far as I've ascertained)... —97198 (talk) 05:38, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

• Furthermore, no (relevant) ghits. —97198 (talk) 05:40, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Ghits are found under new spelling. Dr.K. (talk) 05:59, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Indeed. Author submitted the article as Augustin Trébuchet (French soldier). —97198 (talk) 08:12, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Yes he did. I corrected the entry. Thank you for your help. Take care. Dr.K. (talk) 15:21, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that the National Guard Militia Museum of New Jersey has on display the Intelligent Whale (pictured), an experimental Civil War-era submarine propelled by a hand crank operated by its four-man crew? -- new article, self-nom by Alansohn (talk) 04:34, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
  • Length, date and hook ref verified. --Bruce1ee^talk 07:59, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
    • A great image for the lead spot; I thought it was a flying saucer. --BorgQueen (talk) 07:13, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that Tina Andrews is the first African-American to win the Writers Guild of America award for Original Long Form?

• (ALT)... that Tina Andrews's portrayal of Valerie Grant on Days of our Lives marked the first interracial romance shown in Daytime Television? New article, self-nom. Mess around with the guy in shades all you like - don't mess around with the girl in gloves! (talk) 04:26, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

• Both these facts are referenced to her own official website. Is that alright? Also, was her interracial romance the first shown on daytime television anywhere in the world, or just America? - Mark 02:40, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• As for Mark's first question, no, that's definitely not all right; thank you, Mark, for catching that. The second question is also valid; that will have to be clarified in both the hook and the article. —Politizer ^talk/_contribs 03:02, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Rahr West Art Museum

• ... that a piece of the Soviet Sputnik 4 spacecraft crashed into the street near the Rahr West Art Museum (pictured) in the United States? Should the Cold War be mentioned for context? self-nom, new article by Royalbroil 03:36, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

• (ALT)... that Manitowoc, Wisconsin held a "Sputnikfest" in 2008 to celebrate a piece of the Soviet Sputnik 4 spacecraft that crashed near the Rahr West Art Museum in 1962? Royalbroil 03:36, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

• Length, date and hook refs verified. I prefer the ALT hook and suggest that "Sputnik 4" be replaced by "the Soviet Sputnik 4 spacecraft". --Bruce1ee^talk 08:18, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Sounds good to me - adds more context - so I altered the hook. Royalbroil 13:27, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that Hugo Bettauer was murdered in 1925 by a Nazi sympathizer after publishing "The City Without Jews," a prophetic satire depicting Vienna after the city's Jews were expelled on stock cars? new article by HeartofaDog (talk · contribs), nom. by cbl62 (talk · contribs) Cbl62 (talk) 03:32, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

At the time of nomination, the article needs in-line cites, but this is a fascinating story that deserves a place on the Main Page. Hopefully, it will be cleaned up. The core facts are verified at pages 31-34 of this Columbia University publication. [1] Cbl62 (talk) 03:36, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that Owensboro, Kentucky's Confederate Monument was placed by the courthouse, even through Confederates burned down a previous courthouse in the city?(created by --Gen. Bedford ^{his Forest} 02:45, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that the "sculptor of the Confederacy", George Julian Zolnay‎ (pictured), was actually Hungarian? (created by --Gen. Bedford ^{his Forest} 05:18, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Surely the incredible bit for a "sculptor of the Confederacy" was that he was born in 1863! He (as an adult) missed the Confederacy by a number of years Victuallers (talk) 16:30, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

I thought about it, but I couldn't think of a good unclunky way to word that. The fact that he's Hungarian is curious thro.--Gen. Bedford ^{his Forest} 17:49, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Modified to "Hungarian"; at the time it was all part of Austria-Hungary.--Gen. Bedford ^{his Forest} 05:54, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

ALT1 How about ... that the "sculptor of the Confederacy", George Julian Zolnay‎ (pictured), was born in Hungary seven years after the end of the Confederacy? Also, the article could some inline cites. -- Suntag ☼ 12:17, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

Doesn't work, as it looks like he was born in Roumania, not Hungarian (although Hungarian is his nationality). Also, he was born in 1863, the day after Gettysburg and the day of Vicksburg, not seven years afterward. Also, what do you mean it needs inline cites; it's full of them.--Gen. Bedford ^{his Forest} 15:52, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

LOL. Wow. I was wrong on three accounts. I review the article and don't know how I came to those conclusions. I have to plead BLATTOMR ("being loopy at the time of my review") on this one. -- Suntag ☼ 18:05, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that ancient Greek klismos chairs became fashionable again at the eve of the French Revolution?--Wetman 03:20, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
  • Nice hook, but the article doesn't verify this. There is no mention at all of the French revolution, and although it does mention that the chairs became popular around 1788 (you should still mention somehow that that was the eve of the revolution, for readers who don't know), there's no inline citation for that. —Politizer ^talk/_contribs 03:29, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
    • Is it really necessary to spoon-feed the French Revolution link in the article just to match the hook? Also there is an inline citation for the date at the end of the sentence. Yomangani^talk 12:17, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
      • Yes, it is necessary; there should never be anything in the hook that isn't in the article, and you shouldn't expect the average reader to have all the knowledge you do (if you did, why would you have bothered writing the article?). As for the inline citation at the end of the sentence, if you are referring to citation 1, that citation is useless for verifying. It's not a citation to a source, it's just a citation saying "by the way there's a picture of a chair in this one painting," and it only links to another Wikipedia article. And, that citation isn't verifying the fact that the chairs "became fashionable again" at that time (your wording in the hook), or even the fact that they "were first widely seen in Paris" at that time (your wording in the article); it's only verifying the fact that the chair happened to appear in this one painting. Call it "spoon-feeding" if it makes you happy, but you need to put your stuff in your article. —Politizer ^talk/_contribs 14:26, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
        • Not mine to put my "stuff" in, but I applaud you for your insistence on the inclusion of the words "French Revolution" in the article just so there's no confusion for those reading the hook. Wait! It said the "eve of the French Revolution" in the hook, but here it just says 1788. How can that be? I'm sorry the term "spoon-feeding" seems to have offended you; I wasn't expecting the reader to have all the knowledge I do, but I was crediting them with the ability to a) click a link and b) work out that 1788 and the eve of the French Revolution weren't mutually exclusive. Yomangani^talk 14:58, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
          • Sorry, that's not how it works. The onus to work things out is on you the editor, not the reader. Don't assume that all readers have the same educational background as you do. —Politizer ^talk/_contribs 15:10, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
            • Also, putting together the date, the French Revolution event, and the chair interest to reach a novel conclusion that is not in any of the article sources would seem to be original research. In this case, the DKY hook implies that the French Revolution somehow influenced the interest in the chair. While this may be true, there is no sourced evidence of that and Wikipedia should not be the originating source for that thought. -- Suntag ☼ 18:16, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
    • Where to put "(pictured)"? --76.64.77.189 (talk) 15:11, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that the fungus Paecilomyces lilacinus kills nematodes in the soil, but has also colonised intraocular lenses in people? ...exp by Sasata (talk · contribs), nom by Casliber (talk · contribs)
  • I have no idea what that means. —Politizer ^talk/_contribs 15:07, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

how about ... that the soil-dwelling nematode-killing fungus Paecilomyces lilacinus has also been known to cause human eye infections? Sasata (talk) 18:25, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that Barry Munitz, controversial CEO of the J. Paul Getty Trust, was forced to pass up a $2 million severance deal due to lavish expense account spending when he resigned to return to academe? New article self-nom by Dwalls (talk) 03:43, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• ...that Outlaws, a 1960-1962 NBC western television series, featured the beloved dog who appeared in Disney's Old Yeller film?--self-nom Billy Hathorn (talk) 05:05, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

OR:

• ...that Outlaws, a 1960-1962 NBC western television series, featured episodes about the notorious Sam Bass and the Dalton brothers?--self-nom Billy Hathorn (talk) 05:08, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Articles created/expanded on November 11

• ... that Li Yong (pictured with Guido Mantega) was the first and second secretary to the United Nations Mission from China? New article by ~the editorofthewiki ^{(talk/contribs/editor review)}~ 01:05, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that Georges Bizet's Symphony in C was a completely unknown piece until it was discovered at the Paris Conservatory library in 1933, nearly 60 years after Bizet's death? (Article by User:JackofOz, nom by me. Wizardman 22:06, 13 November 2008 (UTC))

• ... that Jewish immigration to Puerto Rico began in the 15th century and that Puerto Rico has the largest and richest Jewish community in the Caribbean? - Self nom by Tony the Marine (talk) 19:49, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

:* Nice article. Length & date okay. I'm with you at "began in the 15th Century", however I don't see "largest and richest" anywhere in ref #10. Mitico (talk) 19:57, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• Oh, I see it now in ref #14. Mitico (talk) 20:01, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that Glen Ord is the only remaining single malt scotch whisky distillery on the Black Isle in the Highlands of Scotland? - Self nom by Cabe6403 ^{(Talk•Sign!)} 16:34, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• Too short, currently only 1202 charachters of prose. And the lead (also the source of the hook) is "copy & pasted" from the the second reference. - Mitico (talk) 19:49, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that many Erie County Democrats considered boycotting an election when Antoine Thompson (pictured) was not endorsed by the Party?--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 14:16, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

• Length & date okay. The above hook may be okay, but I had troubles getting my hands around it. I think I got hung up on "many" (how many's many?) and "endorsed" ... since it was more of a choosing of successor. I'll propose the following: Mitico (talk) 20:59, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
• (alt hook 1) ... that Erie County Democrats elected Antoine Thompson (pictured) to the New York State Senate months after voters considered boycotting when he was not picked as the successor to the seat?— Preceding unsigned comment added by Mitico (talk • contribs) 20:59, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
• (alt hook 2) ... that Erie County Democrats elected Antoine Thompson (pictured) to the New York State Senate after defeating cousins Marc Coppola and Al Coppola during the 2006 election?— Preceding unsigned comment added by Mitico (talk • contribs) 20:59, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• I don't think in succession is correct because Marc ran in both the primary and general election. Thus, I would either remove "in succession" or go with alternative 1.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 21:09, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• Ok. I removed "in succession" I'll let the hook pickers select which one. Thanks. Mitico (talk) 21:24, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that chemists use volcano plots to understand which catalysts have "just the right amount" of attraction towards the reacting compounds? Self-nom, created Nov. 11. (Note: the link given is actually a redirect to Sabatier principle, but I think it makes a catchier name for the hook). --Itub (talk) 11:07, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that Rob Epstein, Academy Award winner for The Times of Harvey Milk and Common Threads: Stories from the Quilt, also directed Paragraph 175 chronicling the treatment of homosexuals in Nazi Germany? new article by Telling Pictures (talk · contribs) and cbl62 (talk · contribs), nom. by cbl62 (talk · contribs) Cbl62 (talk) 07:31, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that the historic Wayne Morse Farm in Eugene, Oregon was the home of Wayne Morse who represented Oregon in the United States Senate from 1944 until 1968? Self-nom.--Orygun (talk) 03:55, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that the first railroad depot in Stanford, Kentucky was built due to a compromise between Union general Ambrose Burnside and the Louisville and Nashville Railroad? (5x expansion by --Gen. Bedford ^{his Forest} 00:33, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that U.S. federal judge Malcolm Marsh's father and uncle both served as presidents of the Oregon State Bar? (self) Aboutmovies (talk) 23:40, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that there are nine Interstate Highways in Central Illinois, six of which are primary? - expanded stub Marcusmax(speak) 23:08, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

• How does one determine which highways are "major?" The refs just point to maps (google, for instance). Also, expansion just shy of 5x (stub = 776*5=3880; currently 3771). -Mitico (talk) 21:12, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• I changed major to primary, and will do the same in the article. 3 digit Interstates are known as Auxiliary, while 2 digit are primary as explained in the article Interstate Highway System. There was cleanup done so the article fell a little short of 5x but I can go deal with that now. -Marcusmax(speak) 21:50, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that Columbia Park in Torrance, California served as the home field for U.S. Women's soccer players Joy Fawcett and Carin Jennings-Gabarra? -- new article, self-nom by -- Suntag ☼ 20:53, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that Michael Higgins prepared himself for a career in the theater by working to rid himself of his Brooklyn accent as a teenager? -- new article, self-nom by Alansohn (talk) 20:04, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

• Length, date & hook verified. Might consider wikilinking Brooklyn accent? -Mitico (talk) 21:17, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• I thought I had already. Thanks for the suggestion. Alansohn (talk) 21:49, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

A 1623 Dutch version of Robert Hues' book "Tractatus de globis et eorum usu" ("Treatise on Globes and their Use")

A 1623 Dutch version of Robert Hues' book "Tractatus de globis et eorum usu" ("Treatise on Globes and their Use")

• ... that the English mathematician and geographer Robert Hues (his book pictured) served his master Thomas Grey, the last Baron Grey de Wilton, while Grey was imprisoned in the Tower of London? — Cheers, JackLee ^–talk– 19:36, 11 November 2008 (UTC) (expanded an article created by Delirium and nominated it).
  • Expansion confirmed and date good, offline hook refs accepted in good faith, image confirmed as free. --Bruce1ee^talk 09:27, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that Terence Mitford, who spent his whole academic career as an archeologist at the University of St Andrews, was a member of the SAS during the Second World War? new / self-nom Bencherlite^Talk 17:21, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that the first journal articles written by the entomologist Robert Perkins were published when he was a classics student with no scientific education? Self-nom / new Bencherlite^Talk 10:53, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
  • Article only says he was a classics student, doesn't say he had no scientific education. Ref is offline so I can't look into it. Please clarify this issue or suggest a new hook. —Politizer ^talk/_contribs 16:04, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
    • Try again: the article already says "After two years of studying classics, he switched to reading Natural History, notwithstanding that he had not studied science at school." Bencherlite^Talk 16:07, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
      • verified with offline reference accepted in good faith, I'm also suggesting an alternate hook:
        • ... that entomologist Robert Perkins had his first scientific journal articles published when he was a classics student and had never studied science in school? —Politizer ^talk/_contribs 18:22, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that a diverse group of people have been deported from the United States, including Jamaican boxer Trevor Berbick, political activist Emma Goldman, and Indian guru Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh? -- self-nom by Cirt (talk) 10:12, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
  • (alt:)... that the wide variety of people who have been deported from the United States includes Jamaican boxer Trevor Berbick, political activist Emma Goldman, and Indian guru Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh? (I like "wide variety" better than "diverse group, but there's nothing actually wrong with your hook either.) —Politizer ^talk/_contribs 16:00, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that in a baseball match held at the Capitoline Grounds on June 14, 1870, the Brooklyn Atlantics defeated the Cincinnati Red Stockings, ending their 84 game winning streak? -- Article expanded fivefold and self-nom by Neonblak ^talk - 08:51, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that the Confederate Memorial (pictured) in Nicholasville, Kentucky took sixteen years to fund, and was originally a Yankee? (created by --Gen. Bedford ^{his Forest} 08:06, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

"a Union memorial? A "Yankee" (slangy pejorative) is an individual.--Wetman 16:06, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... (alt hook) that the Confederate Memorial (pictured) in Nicholasville, Kentucky took sixteen years to fund, and was originally a statue of a Union soldier?

Better?--Gen. Bedford ^{his Forest} 16:45, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... Mike Shanahan and Dan Reeves are tied for the most playoffs games coached (13) with the Denver Broncos? new article self-nom by -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24_[c] 06:27, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

• Only 1060 characters of prose. —97198 (talk) 07:39, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

• How about now? -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24_[c] 07:57, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

• Still only at 1187 - it'd need another paragraph about the size of the first one to get to 1500. —97198 (talk) 11:22, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

SHould be over 1500 characters now. -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24_[c] 00:40, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

• Wow - 1500 characters exactly. A first? I'll leave the rest for someone else to check as I'm not very sporty (and we don't play much American football here in Australia). —97198 (talk) 05:52, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

• There's 1559 chars now :) Anyway, even though it's short, it's very well referenced. I don't see any reason not to put this on the main page. Length, date, refs verified. Good luck with the FLC! Chamal ^talk 15:02, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

• Original research To generate the DKY hook, the editor put together two source to reach a novel conclusion that is not in any of the sources. I don't think we should post original research on the Main Page. -- Suntag ☼ 12:44, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• I agree with Suntag. Unless some other source specifically says the two guys are "tied," I don't think it should go up. The main problem is the use of the word "tied," which makes it appear as if they were in some sort of widely acknowledged contest to coach the most playoff games. Of course, if you remove that and say something like "this guy and this guy have both coached 13 games" the hook becomes outrageously boring. —Politizer ^talk/_contribs 15:14, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that despite only having emigrated from Ireland to Zambia in 1951, James John Skinner was named the first Zambian Minister of Justice in 1967 and Chief Justice in 1969? self nom--Thomas.macmillan (talk) 06:04, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
  • (alt:)... James John Skinner was the only White member of the Zambian cabinet when that nation gained independence in 1964?
    • I copyedited the second hook. —Politizer ^talk/_contribs 06:26, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that the day after his 32nd birthday General Archibald Gracie III (pictured) was looking out at the Union lines through his telescope when an artillery shell exploded in front of him killing him instantly? New Article Self Nom. Duke R. Oliver I ^{His Duchy} 02:41, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

205 character hook. --Rosiestep (talk) 07:05, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

• (alt:)... that the day after his birthday, General Archibald Gracie III (pictured) was looking out at the Union lines through his telescope when an artillery shell exploded in front of him killing him instantly? Under 200 if you remove "32nd." That hook still needs some copyediting, but at least the length is down. —Politizer ^talk/_contribs 21:19, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

Length, date verified. Offline hook reference accepted in good faith. --Rosiestep (talk) 15:34, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that the fungus Albatrellus subrubescens was first collected from Florida ... and Czechoslovakia? ...exp by Sasata (talk · contribs), nom by Casliber (talk · contribs)

• ... that the U.S Chemical Corps was reactivated in 1976 to create a binary chemical weapon, the now-canceled BIGEYE bomb? Created by Ivoshandor, nomination by RockManQ ^(talk) 19:46, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
  • ... that the BIGEYE bomb was designed to spray VX (nerve agent) over a target area by gliding through the air over it? RockManQ ^(talk) 19:46, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
    • Actually the Chemical Corps wasn't reactivated soley to do the bomb, the fact that they wanted a binary chemical weapons program led to accusations that it was just to justify their reactivation. So I say go with the alt. --IvoShandor (talk) 22:05, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
      • Ahh, must of accidently misinterpreted it. Ok, go with the alt. RockManQ ^(talk) 00:03, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
        • The bomb was never actually built. I think a clearer hook would be: ALT ... that the proposed Bigeye bomb was designed to spray VX nerve agent over a target area by gliding through the air over it? --Bruce1ee^talk 09:46, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Henry Chadwick

• ... that the term battery in baseball was first used by Henry Chadwick (pictured) in reference to the firepower of a team's pitching staff, inspired by artillery batteries then in use in the American Civil War? Five-fold expansion. — RyanCross (talk) 21:26, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

The hook is pretty long-winded. Please shorten it. There seems to be nothing wrong with it actually; I may've been reading it incorrectly in the edit screen. Length, hook and date verified. :) PeterSymonds (talk) 21:36, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that the Rolls-Royce LiftSystem was awarded the prestigious Collier trophy in 2001? Self-nom. Nimbus (Cumulus nimbus floats by) 00:36, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

Where to put "(pictured)"? --76.64.77.189 (talk) 15:05, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

Articles created/expanded on November 10

• ... that Democrat Robert A. Miller lost to Republican Binger Hermann in the 1890 U.S. Congressional elections despite Democrats gaining 78 seats in the House that election? (self) Aboutmovies (talk) 23:37, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
  • That's the most interesting hook you've got? That stuff happens all the time. Every time Democrats (or Republicans) gain a lot of seats, some Democrats (or Republicans) still lose the election. It's never 100%. —Politizer ^talk/_contribs 15:07, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
    • Nobody said it was unique. I found it interesting that in an election when there were 333 seats that Republicans won just 88 of those contests (less than a third), and that this Democrat was unable to unseat the incumbent during such a big power swing. And going by this it appears there have only been a hand full of times where there have been bigger shifts in power the last 150 years or so since the modern Republican/Democrat dichotomy. Aboutmovies (talk) 23:14, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
      • That makes him one of 88 other Democrats who didn't win. Can you think of any other hooks? —Politizer ^talk/_contribs 23:31, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that Loyola College in Maryland, a Jesuit college with "little athletic tradition," has had 13 first-team All American honorees from the men's lacrosse team? -- new article by User:Interzil; Nom by Mitico (talk) 15:31, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that Učka Tunnel's second tube is awaiting construction since 1981? --self-nom, transferred from user space. Admiral Norton ^(talk) 13:49, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

• The article says that the second tunnel hasn't been completed yet, but it doesn't assert that the second tunnel has been planned since 1981. How about:

• ... that the duplication of the Učka Tunnel (pictured) in Croatia is finally underway, 27 years after the completion of the first tunnel? - Mark 03:36, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that millwrights from Canterbury, Kent built a Windmill (pictured) in Jerusalem, Israel in 1857? new article by Epson291; Nom by Mjroots (talk) 08:06, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that James-Younger Gang member "Dick" Liddil (pictured) surrendered to authorities after killing Jesse James' cousin, reportedly out of fear of that James would seek revenge? new article by Lhw1 (talk · contribs) and cbl62 (talk · contribs) Cbl62 (talk) 05:45, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that pre-operative transsexual Japanese adult video actress Miki Mizuasa was nominated for the Best Actress award at the 2007 Adult Broadcasting Awards? new article by Cherryblossom1982 (talk · contribs), nom. by cbl62 (talk · contribs) Cbl62 (talk) 02:46, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

We decided last week to not feature pornography-related articles on DYK in the case of Who's Nailin' Paylin?. Royalbroil 14:29, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

I understand the decision on the Nailin' video, given the use of a slang term for sexual intercourse that many consider crude. But was there really a consensus that no hook involving the adult film business can ever be featured on DYK? I have not nominated such an article before, but this individual's nomination for a "Best Actress" award despite being a man (pre-operative), is pretty extraordinary and unusual. I intentionally avoided a hook that uses any crude movie titles or the like. And we have had transsexual hooks before, e.g., the hook in July about Bethany Black being "Britain's only goth, lesbian, transsexual comedian." I don't think there should be a blanket rule about someone truly interesting just because he/she's an adult film star -- or a transsexual. Cbl62 (talk) 08:35, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

I agree. I definitely think it was right to avoid "Nailin Paylin", but this hook is very modest in comparison - not crude or offensive at all (IMO). It does seem unfair to "disqualify" the hook simply because of the nature of the article (assuming that is does satisfy all WP policies and guidelines such as verification, tone, NPOV). —97198 (talk) 10:33, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

I'm sure that the Jenna Jameson article could have a summary that wouldn't be crude either, but it won't be going on the main page as the TFA. I'm not questioning the notability of the subject. I'm questioning whether or not we want to see a porn article on the main page. I ticked it "no" so there's time to do a discussion instead of a last minute knee jerk reaction. I don't think it belongs. I hope others will see it and comment with their opinion. Copied to talk page - let's discuss it there. Royalbroil 14:54, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

I don't know the exact reasons that Who's Nailin' Paylin got rejected (I assume because, like you said, we judged pornographic content to be objectionable), but my personal objection to it wasn't so much the pornography thing as the BLP issue, since it objectified a living individual and portrayed her in a negative light. This hook doesn't say anything bad about a living individual, and Mizuasa's career is (as far as I know; I haven't read the article) her own choice. —Politizer ^talk/_contribs 15:10, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

For a pre-operative transsexual, the hook should say that Miki Mizuasa is an "actor" nominated for the "Best Actress award." --76.64.77.189 (talk) 15:01, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• What is the purpose of using "adult" twice in the DYK nom? -- Suntag ☼ 17:30, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• One to point out that the subject is a porn actress (as opposed to a regular actress), the other is part of the official name of the awards ceremony. I don't think there's any way to get around having the word twice, unless we were to replace "adult video actress" with "pornographic actress," and I doubt that would go over well with anyone (including me). —Politizer ^talk/_contribs 17:51, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• ALT1 ... that pre-operative transsexual Miki Mizuasa was nominated for the Best Actress award at the 2007 Adult Broadcasting Awards even though she was born a male? -- Logically, she must be an actress in the adult entertainment field to be nominated. Anyway, this all seems academic since a reasonable amount of the 1,500 DYK characters for this article should come from secondary sources independent of the topic rather than from blogs and websites. -- Suntag ☼ 22:07, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

For the time being we can't give this article approval. The current discussion regarding porn on the talk page has concluded that we need to gain a community consensus beyond DYK before allowing such material onto the main page. In other words, we're declining all porn related articles right now until the community at large gives us a thumbs up or thumbs down.Nrswanson (talk) 00:00, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that the bacterium Propionibacterium freudenreichii is responsible for forming the holes in Swiss cheese by releasing carbon dioxide? --new article, self-nom by 4dhayman (talk) 02:12, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that John Trudeau established the Britt Festival in Oregon in 1962, the first of its kind in the Pacific Northwest of the US, and now a four-month long celebration of music and musical theater? -- new article, self-nom by Alansohn (talk) 02:07, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that the acquisition of the Corus Group on October 20, 2006 has made Tata Steel India's second largest company in the private sector? -created by User:Hrukna and nom by-Ravichandar_{My coffee shop} 01:39, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that the Template:Km to mi long and Template:M to ft deep Saguenay Fjord is a fjord in Canada, located in Quebec's Saguenay River valley amidst the Laurentian Upland? -- new article, self-nom by SriMesh | talk 01:33, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
  • Everything verified, but could you suggest a new hook? "X is a fjord" might be eye-catching for Slartibartfast, but probably not for many others. —Politizer ^talk/_contribs 06:08, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
    • ALT 2... that a Template:M to ft tsunami was created when Broke Off Cliff fell into Western Brook Pond, which is a fjord in Canada?
    • ALT 3... that a skookumchuk, or strong water (tidal rapid), is a phenomenon of fjords in Canada as the volume of tidal water inside the fjord depths tries to pour out to, or in from, the more open waters beyond?
    • ALT 4... that the Anaktalak, Saglek and Nachvak fjords in Canada off the coast of Newfoundland and Labrador are being studied for environmental changes due to climate warming?
    • ALT 5... that hurricane force squamish outflow winds affect the Fjords of Canada and Norway?
    • Tried some different hooks as per request. SriMesh | talk 18:01, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
      • Let's consider ALT 2 and ALT 4, those ones are the most interesting. —Politizer ^talk/_contribs 18:07, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that the Survival of the Shawangunks is a triathlon boasting seven transitions between events, and requiring competitors to swim with their running shoes? --new article, self nom by otherlleft (talk) 17:55, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
  • Edit:... that the Survival of the Shawangunks is a triathlon boasting seven transitions among events, and requiring competitors to swim with their running shoes? --grammar was incorrect, sorry!--otherlleft (talk) 19:35, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
    • I would like nothing more than to see a triathlon article on the front page, but could you de-orphan this article first? Also, the hook isn't cited in the article, although I think that can be fixed easily. Finally, the first hook is actually the correct one. —Politizer ^talk/_contribs 23:24, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
      • Also, do you have information on how many people (on average) compete in it each year? The fact that the same guy has won it eight times makes it sound like a rinky-dink road race (which I assume it isn't, but still, we should make sure). —Politizer ^talk/_contribs 23:27, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
        • I tweaked the wording to put the hook right in it, found three relevant articles to link to it, and added information about the number of finishers. Hope it's enough! Oh, and I updated which hook should be struck out . . . "between" is correct for two, but "among" is correct for three or more.--otherlleft (talk) 03:13, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
          • You are correct that "between" is for two and "among" for three or more (take it from me, a grammar stickler who spent several years working as a writing tutor), but keep in mind...when you make a transition in a triathlon, you are only making a transition between two events at once (ie, biking to running), not among multiple events at the same time (ie, I think it's physically impossible to transition "among" three different events simultaneously, unless you have multiple bodies)—there are seven transitions that are each between two events, not one transition that is *"among" seven events. In fact, as a rule of thumb, the word "transition" almost always takes "between," and almost never takes "among," not just in this context but in most English contexts where you'll ever see it. ... I'll take a look at the article in a moment; I just wanted to clear up this between/among thing. —Politizer ^talk/_contribs 03:31, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
            • • I just checked it out and, while your edits are a major improvement and I was happy to see that the article has been de-orphaned, I noticed that there is no source for the statement that SOS is the "only" triathlon to have this many transitions. That's a fairly serious issue, so you'll have to either suggest a new hook or dig up a source for this statement. —Politizer ^talk/_contribs 03:37, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

(indent) You win on the grammar, I submit to the master! Regarding the transitions: the article claims that it is unusual, not that it is the only one to do so, because even though I suspect this is the case, I have not yet found such a source. I don't recall if a prior version did use the word "only," but I believe it was removed early on if it was ever there. If you think a further rewording is in order, I'm open to suggestions.--otherlleft (talk) 03:51, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that physician William Beierwaltes, a pioneer in nuclear medicine, was one of five attendees at the first course for doctors offered by the Atomic Energy Commission on the medical use of radioisotopes? -- new article, self-nom by Alansohn (talk) 17:30, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

File:Ota Minoru.jpg

• ... that Rear Admiral Minoru Ōta, commander of the Imperial Japanese Navy at the Battle of Okinawa, had earlier been earmarked to command Japanese landing forces at the Battle of Midway? <self-nom> --MChew (talk) 15:45, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that the intricate rococo decoration of the Grand Church of the Winter Palace was recreated in papier-mâché after a fire destroyed most of the original interiors of the Winter Palace in 1837? -- another article by User:Giano II and User:Muscovite99, recently moved to main space; nom by Testing times (talk) 15:39, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
  • The hook is not cited in the article. --Bruce1ee^talk 10:14, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
    • It is covered by the Hermitage website, already cited elsewhere. I have added another citation for you. -- Testing times (talk) 11:12, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
      • Thank you. Length, date and hook ref verified. --Bruce1ee^talk 12:00, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that the walls of Peter the Great's first "palace" in the nascent St Petersburg, a 60 m² (650 sq ft) log cabin, were painted to resemble brickwork? -- yet another article by User:Giano II; further material added and nom by Testing times (talk) 15:39, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
  • Length and date good, offline hook refs accepted in good faith. --Bruce1ee^talk 12:08, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
    • Both of those references are online at Google book, actually - [2] "unconvincingly painted to resemble brick, forty feet long, eighteen feet wide" and [3] "Originally the interior wooden walls were painted in red oil to immitate brick". -- Testing times (talk) 12:48, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Pitkin watch

• ... that, along with his brother, Henry Pitkin produced the first American-designed pocket watches (pictured) with machine-made parts? new article, self nom by --Doug Coldwell ^talk 14:03, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
  • Verified. —Politizer ^talk/_contribs 14:33, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that Austro-Hungarian submarine SM U-16, which sank two ships and captured a third during World War I, was the only boat of the U-10-class to sink during the war? -- new article self-nom by Bellhalla (talk) 12:09, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
  • Length, date verified and offline ref accepted in good faith. Chamal ^talk 14:53, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that "There's No One As Irish As Barack O'Bama" is a spoof folk song first performed in a pub in the Irish village from where the President-elect of the United States claims that his great-great-great grandfather came? --- new article (self nom)--Scott MacDonald (talk) 11:36, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
  • Article has been listed at AfD. Also, looking at the edit history, I'm pretty sure that "There's No One As Irish As Barack O'Bama" is the new article and I have made it bold, rather than in italics. — Bellhalla (talk) 12:17, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
    • Yes, I bolded it, but the scarequotes and bold got confuded. It is on afd, but the nomination is pretty frivolous, it will be kept.--Scott MacDonald (talk) 14:56, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
      • NB AFD closed as speedy/snowball keep.--Scott MacDonald (talk) 18:34, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
        • 218 character hook. --Rosiestep (talk) 07:09, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

• ALT1... that "There's No One As Irish As Barack O'Bama" is a folk song first performed in the village from where Barack Obama claims his great-great-great grandfather came? --- new article (self nom)----Scott MacDonald (talk) 13:51, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

• Looks good. However, there should be a footnote in the image caption "here in Ollie Hayes pub, the song was first performed", which appears to be the article text from which the DYK hook is derived. -- Suntag ☼ 12:52, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• Look again, the hook is in the text, and clearly referenced from the Irish Times. The image caption merely repeats it.--Scott MacDonald (talk) 14:06, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that the gentle, affectionate nature and agreeable temperament of the Lilacine Amazon has given it a favorable reputation as a companion parrot? — new article, self-nominated by krimpet✽ 03:12, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
  • Ref given in article doesn't establish "reputation," it's just one guy saying they have a good temperament. Will need to suggest an alternate hook or find a better ref. —Politizer ^talk/_contribs 03:31, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that German entrepreneur, race driver and yacht skipper Udo Schütz won the 1000 km Nürburgring in 1967, the Targa Florio in 1969, and the Admiral's Cup in 1993? -- self-nom by  Matthead  Discuß   00:59, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

Central Park

• ... that the top of the 51-storey Central Park tower (pictured) in Perth, Western Australia sways about 30 cm (12 in) in the wind? -- self-nom de-stubbed (5x) article. - Mark 01:39, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

• Date, expansion and ref verified. Changed "up to 30cm" to "about", considering the interviewee himself was fairly vague in "about a third of a metre". —97198 (talk) 05:46, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that Juniper Networks has updated its JUNOS software every 90 days since its creation in 1998? Created by Tinucherian, nomination by RockManQ ^(talk) 19:59, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

• Perhaps a brief description of what JUNOS is. Readers such as myself could easily assume that it was a website or machine or anything. Otherwise, date/length/refs verified. —97198 (talk) 10:17, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• I changed "JUNOS" to "its JUNOS software." —Politizer ^talk/_contribs 15:05, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that, due to his support of Kentucky's efforts to secede from the Union, Henry Cornelius Burnett is one of only five members in history to be expelled from the United States Congress? Self-nom; five-fold expansion began November 10 diff Acdixon ^{(talk • contribs • count)} 04:05, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that Ichabod and Me, a 1961–1962 CBS sitcom starring Robert Sterling and George Chandler, bombed despite its placement between the Top 15 Red Skelton and Garry Moore programs?--self- nom, new article, using Google Book reference Billy Hathorn (talk) 04:22, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Articles created/expanded on November 9

• ... that the largest earthquake ever recorded in the U.S. state of Illinois took place at approximately 11:02 a.m. on 1968 November 9? -- new article by Ceranthor (talk · contribs) on the 40th anniversary of this quake, nom. by PFHLai (talk) 16:04, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that the Jadad scale is the world's most widely used means of assessing the methodological quality of clinical trials? new article, self-nom — BillC ^talk 20:50, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Which citation verifies this hook? --Rosiestep (talk) 15:44, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

The second sentence with its two citations: "It is the most widely used such assessment in the world,[1][2]". — BillC ^talk 02:07, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that the rare West Virginia land snail Triodopsis platysayoides is protected by a fence and likes rock features? -- Article expanded fivefold by User:Invertzoo and myself. Snek01 (talk) 20:16, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

They all have their own little fence that they carry around with them? Fence and rock really don't need linking either. Yomangani^talk 12:38, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Humans built the fence solely to protect the snails (perhaps unusual?) and the rock comment is that the snails typically are observed within 1 meter of a rock feature. Apparently they are obsessed with the rock feature for some unknown reason. It is interesting that these snails have three teeth. to the Nom - In summary, please supply an alternate DYK hook. -- Suntag ☼ 21:58, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

Richard Maack

• ... that Richard Maack (pictured) was a Russian naturalist who led some of the first major scientific expeditions to remote Siberia and the Russian Far East? --new article, self nom by Earthdirt (talk) 20:15, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
  • (moved here from November 10) Length good, offline hook refs accepted in good faith. Image verfied as free. --Bruce1ee^talk 11:15, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that Taishō Baseball Girls is a popular light novel series about an all-girl baseball team set in Taishō era Japan? -- new article self-nom by ···日本穣^{? · Talk to Nihonjoe} 19:57, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

Date, length, English reference confirms fact. Struck out "popular" as it is a WP:PEACOCK word. Royalbroil 14:39, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

But the "popular" is in there specifically with a reference in the article. I wouldn't have included it otherwise. ···日本穣^{? · Talk to Nihonjoe} 04:42, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

A foreign-language reference with no translation given in the footnote. Various sources have lots of ways of interpreting whether or something is "popular," and this is one of those cases where we can't just blindly trust the source without first looking into it and seeing what its evidence is. For example, some sources will tell you X website is "popular" because it got 100,000,000 page hits last month (or something like that), but lots of people think page hits are meaningless as a measure of popularity. I know that's not directly related to this manga, but it's an example. —Politizer ^talk/_contribs 04:52, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

Okay, I've translated the title of the article, which gives the source for the claim of popularity. ···日本穣^{? · Talk to Nihonjoe} 00:43, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

A single website (and I don't even know anything about what kind of website that is) calling it "popular" once in a headline doesn't prove that it is popular, it just proves that someone called it popular. It's not valid. Better just to let this whole "popular" issue drop and put the hook through without it; the hook really isn't any better with "popular" in there anyway, it's not worth worrying about. —Politizer ^talk/_contribs 02:37, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

(outdent) I'm not sure how this got passed. There's no inline citation to the fact that the series is "about an all-girl baseball team set in Taishō era Japan"; in fact, there's not a single reference in the entire Story section. It just says "the first book begins in Taisho 14"—I don't even know what Taisho 14 is. (the Taishō period article never once uses that term.) I don't think we can feature the article when it's in this state. —Politizer ^talk/_contribs 02:37, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that Werner Krieglstein, an internationally recognised philosopher whose works have come up in many symposiums, is the founder of a neo-Nietzschean philosophical school called Transcendental Perspectivism? -- new article by User:Dkriegls; Nom by Alexnia (talk) 18:37, 10 November 2008 (UTC) (last try for today)

205 character hook. --Rosiestep (talk) 07:11, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

oh come on your don't tell me your declining my hook because it's over 5 chars?Alexnia (talk) 10:44, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

... that Werner Krieglstein, an internationally recognised philosopher, is the founder of a neo-Nietzschean philosophical school called Transcendental Perspectivism? Shorter. Yomangani^talk 12:38, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for making it shorter Alexnia (talk) 13:02, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that Mike Davis envisioned making recreational boats available on the Hudson River in New York City after seeing how boats could be rented in Istanbul and rowed on the Bosporus? -- new article, self-nom by Alansohn (talk) 03:20, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

"his goal of" isn't required in that hook. Yomangani^talk 12:38, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Words were removed, as suggested. Alansohn (talk) 00:19, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that early childhood educator Barbara T. Bowman co-founded Chicago's Erikson Institute with the support of philanthropist Irving Harris? (new; self nom) --Rosiestep (talk) 02:30, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

Before clicking and reading about it, I thought "Erikson Institute" is a kindergarten with a "grown-up" name. :) --76.64.77.189 (talk) 14:54, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• alt1 ... that early childhood educator Barbara T. Bowman co-founded Chicago's Erikson Institute, a graduate school in child development, with the support of philanthropist Irving Harris? --Rosiestep (talk) 00:37, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that Hedley Howarth helped lead New Zealand to its first ever test cricket win on the Indian subcontinent with a five-wicket bag against India in 1969? -- fivefold expansion, self-nom by Alansohn (talk) 00:55, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that protests by Rev. Abraham Woods about the 1990 PGA Championship at Shoal Creek led the club to admit its first black member and to new PGA rules requiring open membership policies at host clubs? -- new article, self nom by Alansohn (talk) 22:05, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

Did the protests lead to Shoal Creek admitting the new PGA rules, or did they lead to the new rules themselves. If the latter, a "to" is required after the "and". Yomangani^talk 12:38, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

These were two separate results, and the wording was changed, as suggested. Alansohn (talk) 00:19, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

202-character hook, and that's even before adding "country club" (I think it should read "Shoal Creek country club" rather than just "Shoal Creek"). Will have to shorten it. —Politizer ^talk/_contribs 23:19, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

Adding the word "to" put me just over the limit. The article's name is Shoal Creek, and I tweaked the wording to add the word "club" to clarify what Shoal Creek is. That it was the site of a golf tournament should also add appropriate context. The wikilink should allow anyone to confirm the nature of the club. I am willing to consider any proposed rewording. Alansohn (talk) 03:37, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that prehistoric ridgeway trails, though often steep, were usually the firmest and safest cart tracks before the advent of paved roads in western Europe? -- new article self-nom by JB Piggin (talk) 21:58, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that during the 1994 Royal Rumble match, both Bret Hart and Lex Lugar's feet hit the floor at the exact same time, making it the first and only time that two wrestlers were declared winners? Expanded and self nom by iMatthew 21:26, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

• This says that you created the article but the DYK nom says you expanded the article. Also, a reasonable amount of the 1,500 DYK characters should come from reliable sources that are independent of the topic. List of Royal Rumble match winners appears to be sourced to wwe.com. For another DYK mentioning Bret Hart, see How did this become a DYK?? on the DYK talk page. -- Suntag ☼ 03:31, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

I expanded it further in a sandbox of mine, then moved it to mainspace. iMatthew 11:13, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

The Julia Butler Hansen Bridge as seen southbound from Cathlamet.

• ... the Julia Butler Hansen Bridge (pictured), which carries Washington State Route 409, was opened in August 1939 by Franklin D. Roosevelt, via telegraph from the White House? -- Article expanded fivefold and self-nom by ~~ ComputerGuy 19:48, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

• It seems to me that this hook is more about the first link in it than the state route. And how do you open something remotely via telegraph? That isn't really explained in the article or the citation given. - Mark 15:28, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that decommissioning in Northern Ireland was a process in the Northern Ireland peace process? new article, self nom. Bsimmons666 (talk) ^Friend? 18:56, 9 November 2008 (UTC)
  • I looked through the article trying to find material for a more interesting hook, and I noticed that the "breakthrough" by which the IRA finally decided to decommission hardly gets any coverage at all. We get the sentence "On 7 August 2001, the IRA agreed on a method of destroying its arsenal," but no indication of why that breakthrough was happening (given that "the peace process was on the brink of collapse" before that, I would imagine something big must have changed to allow this breakthrough). The article mentions one source's speculation that the September 11 attacks played a role in the breakthrough, but the breakthrough apparently took place over a month before the attacks. —Politizer ^talk/_contribs 17:43, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that one-third of India's population (roughly equivalent to the entire population of the United States) lives below the poverty line? article by Gppande (talk · contribs) nomination by Parthian Scribe 18:18, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

• The article makes this statement then has no inline citation for it. It then goes on to say that over 40% live under the "new" poverty line, and that somewhere around a quarter live below the "national" poverty line. There's a lot of ambiguity there and I can't see where the one third figure comes from. - Mark 14:14, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• The difference between the second and third figures is based on the standard, it seems...40% are below what the international community deems poverty, while 20-27% (different figures given in the footnote) are below what the Indian government deems as poverty (on a side note, footnote #43—the poverty report from the Planning Commission of India—should really have a page number in it). But you are correct about the first number, I still don't see where one-third came from. And honestly, is this the most interesting hook? I feel like this is the sort of thing that most readers, even if they don't technically "know" already, will not be surprised by. There has to be something more eye-catching here. —Politizer ^talk/_contribs 15:02, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• A more pressing concern is that it's hard to tell how much of this article is new. The section Terrorism is directly copied from Terrorism in India, leading me to believe that similar copying is going on in other parts of the article as well. —Politizer ^talk/_contribs 15:02, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that at one time, the Sneath Glass Company produced almost 90 percent of the glassware used in consumer refrigerators in the United States? article by TwoScars (talk · contribs) nomination by Parthian Scribe 18:08, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

Is there an inline citation for this? --Rosiestep (talk) 07:00, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that the Turkish poet Süleyman Nazif was sentenced in 1918 to execution by firing squad by the commander of the French occupying forces in Istanbul due to an article he wrote in a newspaper to condemn the occupation, but pardoned later? (Article expanded fivefold and self-nom by CeeGee (talk) 12:13, 9 November 2008 (UTC))

236 character hook. --Rosiestep (talk) 18:15, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

• (alt)... that the Turkish poet Süleyman Nazif was sentenced to execution by firing squad for an article he wrote condemning the 1918 French occupation, but pardoned later? - may be possible to mahe it even snappier Victuallers (talk) 17:47, 9 November 2008 (UTC)
• (alt)... that the Turkish poet Süleyman Nazif was sentenced to execution by firing squad by the French forces due to an article he wrote condemning the occupation of Istanbul in 1918, but pardoned later? - reworded without changing the meaning CeeGee (talk) 06:47, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

• Hook is still too convoluted, and it makes it unclear whether he was saved from execution or was posthumously pardoned. An alternate hook might help, but I haven't been able to think of one yet. —Politizer ^talk/_contribs 17:38, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
• More seriously, the article relies entirely on a single source, and that source isn't in English. —Politizer ^talk/_contribs 17:38, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• There is some English source material at Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL. ALT ... that the Turkish poet Süleyman Nazif witnessed first hand the decaying corpses of persecuted Christians in his home town of Diyarbakır in July 1915? -- Suntag ☼ 21:41, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• (alt)... that the Turkish poet Süleyman Nazif was sentenced to execution by firing squad by the French forces due to an article he wrote condemning the occupation of Istanbul in 1918, but pardoned soon? - Added reference in English and reworded hook. CeeGee (talk) 19:36, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that the SS Mahratta ran aground on the Goodwin Sands in 1939, less than a mile from the site the wreck of a previous ship named Mahratta? Article created and self-nom by Mjroots (talk) 09:03, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

• Too short, only about 1150 chars. Gatoclass (talk) 15:36, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

• Nom withdrawn, unable to expand further with sources available to me. Mjroots (talk) 10:13, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that the American television series Veronica Mars was renewed for a third season mainly because of the critical acclaim for previous seasons, despite low ratings? -- new article self-nom by Corn.u.co.pia / Disc.us.sion 08:44, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

Is this that unusual? 30 Rock and Arrested Development both also got third seasons with the same combination of minimal ratings and critical adulation. Daniel Case (talk) 14:19, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that Larry Krystkowiak is the only Milwaukee Bucks head coach to have spent his entire coaching career with the Bucks? new article, self-nom. -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24_[c] 03:29, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

• Only 1133 characters of prose. —97198 (talk) 11:41, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Shouldn't there be an omit for that if the article can't have anymore sentences put into it? -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24_[c] 03:15, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

All you need is a few more sentences (maybe four or five). Isn't there any more info that can be included? Since it's a list, just getting over the 1500 character margin will do. Chamal ^talk 14:44, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

To be truthfully honest, I cannot think of ANYTHING that I can add into the lead. :( -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24_[c] 00:51, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that the members of Montreal-based electronic music duo Beast were both born in France and perform all of their songs in English? -- Article expanded fivefold and self-nom by Marchije (talk) 07:04, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

Cited source implies that the band sings in English but doesn't say so explicitly. Daniel Case (talk) 14:17, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that Thirumangai Alvar, who is considered one of the most learned Alvar saint-poet in Hinduism, was initially a robber? self - nom. Former redirect --Redtigerxyz (talk) 13:06, 9 November 2008 (UTC)
  • Hook is not currently cited in article. Length and date good. — BillC ^talk 01:42, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

"He is considered one of the most learned Alvar and the most superior Alvar in the context of composition of verses.[2]" and "Unable to bear the heavy expense of feeding a thousand people, Thirumangai resorted to robbery. Legend has it god Vishnu met him on such a robbery and transformed him by teaching the mantra "namo narayanaya".[1]" reference 1 is for the whole para.--Redtigerxyz (talk) 04:42, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

According to what you have given, he wasn't "initially" a robber, he was just a robber for a while before he was a saint. So how about this: ... that Thirumangai Alvar, who is considered one of the most learned Alvar saint-poet in Hinduism, was a robber before he became a saint? —Politizer ^talk/_contribs 17:25, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

Length, date verified. Offline refs accepted in good faith. I prefer the second hook (it was proposed by Politizer by the way, looks like he forgot to sign) Chamal ^talk 14:59, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

I as the nominator support the second hook, thats what I really to convey. --Redtigerxyz (talk) 15:05, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that 18th century outlaw Oleksa Dovbush is known as the Ukrainian Robin Hood? --article by User:Aleksandr Grigoryev, nom by _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 23:48, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
  • Article is technically around 2000 characters, but it looks awfully short and bare to me. Also there is only one inline citation. The first two ELs given should be incorporated into the text as multiple citations, and there is probably more information you can get from those ELs to beef up the article as well. —Politizer ^talk/_contribs 03:52, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Expiring noms

Articles created/expanded on November 8

• ... that, when Emperor Dezong of Tang fled after rebellion of Li Huaiguang, the official Qi Ying held the bridle of the imperial horse? (self-nomination, new article to displace redirect) --Nlu (talk) 16:13, 9 November 2008 (UTC)
  • (alt:) ... that Qi Ying held the bridle of the imperial horse when Emperor Dezong of Tang fled after the rebellion of Li Huaiguang? —Politizer ^talk/_contribs 16:17, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

• Length and date verified. Offline reference accepted in good faith. Use Politizer's less convoluted hook for DYK. Cunard (talk) 07:40, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• Unfortunately, I don't think either of these hooks is of an appropriate standard. If this fellow never did anything more important than hold a horse's bridle he doesn't belong in mainspace. Gatoclass (talk) 12:21, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• Agreed. The hook should state why this act was important. How about this;

ALT1 ... that Qi Ying, disregarding his own safety in order to protect Emperor Dezong of Tang, held the bridle of the imperial horse when the emperor was fleeing after the rebellion of Li Huaiguang?

That's the best I can come up with. Not sure if that will do, though. Chamal ^talk 14:33, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

(Edit conflict): Better, but too long. Might I suggest something along the lines of:

• ALT2 ... that after endangering himself to protect Emperor Dezong of Tang, Qi Ying was appointed an imperial attendant? Gatoclass (talk) 14:48, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• Chamal's hook is too long? I had it at 189 characters using this. —Politizer ^talk/_contribs 16:26, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

I think the reason that was suggested for the hook was because it's the most interesting thing he did, not the most important thing he did. In the article, it looks as if he has done a lot of important but boring (official-ish) things. Also, given that the emperor at that time was a godlike figure, getting to hold the reins for him must have been a big deal. Just my two cents. Anyway, I prefer Chamal's hook (i flipped the word order in it a bit). —Politizer ^talk/_contribs 14:43, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

ALT3 ... that Emperor Dezong of Tang elevated Qi Ying to imperial attendant in 784 because Ying agreed to hold the bridle of the Emperor's horse? -- Suntag ☼ 21:10, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

verified Chamal's hook (ALT1). Article length and history have already been verified above, and the fact in Chamal's hook is verified (it's the same as the fact in the first hook, except the "disregarding his safety" bit, which in a quote in the article and can be verified AGF); as I mentioned above, Chamal's hook is 189 chars by my count. As I said above, I prefer Chamal's hook; Gatoclass's hook is also verified in the text, if you are still concerned about Chamal's being non-notable. Anyway, let's just get this hook out of here! —Politizer ^talk/_contribs 03:07, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that the term Hindu Taliban is used by some tolerant or "secular" Hindus to describe the supporters of the Hindutva movement? (new article, self-nom) Otolemur crassicaudatus (talk) 16:23, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

• Note: Reference for the above statement is India: A Global Studies Handbook by Fritz Blackwell. Reference number 1. Otolemur crassicaudatus (talk) 16:23, 8 November 2008 (UTC) Comment At present the article is AfDed by a user. Please wait a bit until the AfD is closed. Otolemur crassicaudatus (talk) 09:13, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

• Length, date, and hook verified. There does not seem to be anyway that the AfD will result in delete or merge. At worst, it would be no consensus, but that seems unlikely as well. -- Suntag ☼ 21:03, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

See also

• User:AlexNewArtBot/GoodSearchResult – This is an automated list of promising new articles generated by AlexNewArtBot (talk · contribs · logs).