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Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents
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Coloane community ban discussion

• Coloane (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

This is in response to an email I received from a concerned editor. It would appear that User:Coloane continues to attempt to use FAC as a weapon for causing disruption against editors he has a beef with. There was a prior ANI discussion (here about possible problems with Coloane; this was resolved by Raul, who said that mentoring Coloane was a possible option. However, one of the main points in that discussion, that Coloane was using FAC intentionally to disrupt Wikipedia, was lost I think, and it is still happening. Two relevent difs: here: [1] where he claims to wish to see another editors article "fail and die at FAC" and here: [2] where he threatens to obstruct any articles edited by another user from becoming FAC. These edits are personally directed, and represent a directed attempt to disrupt, in my opinion. Now, this was all in the prior ANI report, however the behavior continues DESPITE the prior report. At this dif where he opposes the article U2, he makes a veiled reference to his deliberate attempt to obstruct of the Russia FAC. And the final issue is here: [3] where he cleary says that he is making outrageous and unactionable claims on the article, simply to obstruct the vote. This is stretching the bounds of good faith, and we should consider a community ban restricting this user from the entire FA process. What I see here is repeated attempts (feeble as they may be) to push a personal agenda by making outlandish and rediculous oppose votes at FA nominations. That such votes are patently rediculous and likely to be discounted by the FA director is moot. The Russia FAC would have failed regardless of Coloanes clumsy attempt to disrupt it; likewise the U2 FAC is likely to succeed in spite of it. However, these obvious and rediculous attempts at trolling need to be stopped. I recognize that he has been a valuable contributor to many articles here at Wikipedia, but he clearly misunderstands how to work well with others at FAC, and a community ban may be in order. Any ideas?--Jayron32.talk.contribs 21:49, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

I removed his "vote" and the discussion thread from the FAC, directing him to dispute resolution. It was an inappropriate, unhelpful, and needlessly antagonistic exchange. El_C 22:24, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for doing so. I still press that a community ban of some sort on FA discussions needs to be addressed. Do others agree, or do we need to let this play out further. As I noted, the user has made some clearly positive contributions, but this behavior at FA should not be suffered for much longer... --Jayron32.talk.contribs 23:04, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

There are something wrong here. You tried to talk about the vote from Russia (or the last message from the noticeboard) and mixed up the vote I put on U2 in order to rationalise your above message. This is my first time to see it. Again, my vote in Russia and U2 are fair with highly detail reasons and they are all seperate issues. It doesn't make sense and it is rude to erase my vote over there. Everyone can go there and vote. With the message I wrote to Mikoyan is a third matter. You had better treat it one by one. So go back to the U2 issue. You made my comment over my comment, why didn't you take this to the talk page? I answered your question politely and illustrated my point clearly. The message I wrote you is to tell you what vote means and my comment is entirely my personal view. If you are not a nominator nor main editor of U2, you can simply ignore it. It is not a message to tell you that I will come here to disrupt FAC next time. Probably you didn't pay attention or misunderstood. Coloane (talk) 00:45, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

I am afraid that you have a history of behavior which cannot be ignored at this point. You don;t get to disrupt FAC after FAC over and over simply because you want us to forget about past problems. You have never adequately explained you outright declarations to intentionally disrupt the processes at FAC. For this reason, I feel the community ban is an appropriate solution. I urge you to refrain from commenting on FACs and FARs in the future, and return to editing articles. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 18:05, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

So what is your concrete evidence to prove that I disrupt/ed the FAC process? I am not going to write anymore here since it really wastes me too much time to reply your comment, so this is my last comment here. I guess you probably wanted to save your face on my comment under U2. Plus I guess you have nothing to do so far and that is why you spent most of your time to see if you can do something. Oh by the way, it seems you did a right job to give a warning to someone I didn't know. Hopefully this is not the only one you can do as an admin. Good luck! Coloane (talk) 18:39, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Ahem: [4]. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 18:52, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Then put this comment on Archive 354. Coloane (talk) 22:42, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Also see related thread Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive354#Ongoing_harrassment.2C_vote_rigging_and_sockpuppetery_by_User:Coloane. It would seem a community ban on FA/GA discussions is the next stage from here. Orderinchaos 11:37, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

I recall Coloane has commented in a past Macau FAC with personal attacks directed at Tony and myself at the very least. I have reminded this user that the attacking behaviour is unacceptable, but has ignored the message. 哦，是吗？(O-person) 22:52, 23 January 2008 (GMT)

So the question remains: Are we prepared to institute and enforce a community ban on this user? Anyone? --Jayron32.talk.contribs 02:42, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Based on the evidence above, something needs to be done; I just don't know what. Maybe a ban, maybe FAC probation. 哦，是吗？(O-person) 02:54, 24 January 2008 (GMT)

I think if the user were restricted from any future FA discussions, that would be a reasonable solution. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 03:00, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Seeing that he has not clean up his acts & instead went on his 'crusade' further by ignoring any past community warnings or actions & even while his case is in arbitration now, I wld like to bring to your attention on his editing behaviour & actions towards Singapore-related articles & the SGpedia community not too long ago. As his case is still pending here, he has 'retired' suddenly as of Jan 23 but I've lingering doubts that he will remain so for long. [5]. u may also want to read his remarks posted on Jimbo Wales' talkpage previously. Fyi, I'm a RC patroller & was given the roll-back authority to help in monitoring on Singapore-related articles for such trolls & vandals. -- Aldwinteo (talk) 04:44, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Coloane is my husband. I already let him retire and he will not come back for sure. I hope it can clarify your doubt. In addition, I do not think your claim about what he did for Singapore-related topics are reasonable. Guia Hill 06:12, 24 January 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Leungli (talk • contribs)

The statement I made were based on his pattern of disruptive behaviour as seen from his history logs, talkpage (blanked repeatedly[6]), personal attacks on SG-related articles [7] & SGpedians [8] that also matches similar reports made by other editors/Admins all these while. I'm not alone nor the only SGpedian in making such a statement as seen from this discussion, related disputes & repeated ANI cases initiated unabatedly over the past 2 weeks. Besides the SG case I mentioned earlier, I trust the Wiki community is able to evaluate on any such claims being discussed here & decide on its final long-term solution once & for all as the community has tolerated such behaviour long enuf. The community only welcome & valued volunteers who are civil and constructive to the spirit and aspirations of Wikipedia in the long run. -- Aldwinteo (talk) 07:28, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

I don't edit Wikipedia anymore. I just make a response here for you. You can leave your message on my talk page if you want. Your claims are entirely not relevant. He already got warnings from someone and this matter was over long time ago. What Jayron32 wrote is also irrelevant. I didn't have much time to read his edit history. But I am sure that Miyokan is the one who voted and really disrupted the FAC process and that is why Coloane reacted emotionally on his talk page. That is why Raul restarted the nomination. Jayron32 didn't read the context carefully. Finally I would like to tell you that this page is not a battlefield for retaliation. I don't enjoy this much. I also trust Wikipedia can foster people how to love and respect each other. Nobody is prefect here. With love and peace!! Guia Hill 08:03, 24 January 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Leungli (talk • contribs)

I responded to your earlier replies even though your intervention consitutes a possible COI here. My statement made were backed with factual logs & third-party's reports & I'm not using this platform as "a battlefield for retaliation" as u claimed; I'm expressing my views & concern here in my capacity as a RC patroller. Despite numerous warnings & repeated ANI action in recent weeks, he still persist with his disruptive remarks/action at the expense of the good faith & assistance extended to him earlier. Whether my view or someone else view is being discounted or not, the onus is still left for the community to decide in arriving at a consensus as per Wikipedia:Policies and guidelines. Ask him & yourself honestly this question - what led to this unwholesome karma now? Shld he chooses to return to contribute esp on Macau/HK-related articles in future, we hope he wld have reflected & learnt on this whole episode & to accord everyone the same "love & respect" as u mentioned above. -- Aldwinteo (talk) 09:43, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

I support a ban from FAC. Long-term disruption leaves little confidence in a change after this. Lara❤Love 05:55, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

In agreement with Laralove, Jayron and Aldwinteo. Aldwinteo's remarks about the SG situation cause me particular concern regarding this user. We do not need people taking out vindictive GARs/FARs - it only creates more work for already overworked volunteers. Orderinchaos 08:26, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Move for closure

Seeing no objections to the course of action, I say that we should notify the user that it has been decided that he is asked to make no further comments to FA and GA discussions in any way, and that such a probation means that if he continues to do so he may be blocked for disruption. Could another admin notify him of this. He already hates me, apparently, and in the interest of representing the widespread support for this proposal, it may be better if a relatively uninvolved admin notifies the user of this decision. If I do it, it may be taken as bullying him or something. Anyone? --Jayron32.talk.contribs 17:00, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Is less than two days of discussion really enough to be able to gauge community consensus? At AfD at least five days is required. Guest9999 (talk) 20:13, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

It should be noted that this issue isn't only 2 days old. There are prior ANI reports on this user. Its been a frequent topic of discussion for over a week; the priod discussions are linked above. If this were truly only a two day discussion, I would agree with you, however, though THIS thread is only two days old, this problem has been being addressed by admins for some time, and despite this, the user continues the problematic behavior. He knows that we know what he is doing. He knows that we have told him to stop. He has not yet stopped. If you disagree that any action is needed, please say so yourself. The thread is here, and open to comment. What do YOU think needs be done? --Jayron32.talk.contribs 20:28, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

As far as I could tell (please correct me if I'm wrong) none of the other threads mentioned a community ban. So far in this thread four users (by my count) have supported a ban, two of whom are - or have been - involved in disputes with the user. Other users have suggested dispute resolution or simply unecertainty as to what action to take. Personnaly I do not think that this shows that a community consensus has been formed. Guest9999 (talk) 23:01, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

If you are suggesting that the views of ‘involved’ editors are less valid than those who are - um - uninvolved, perhaps you yourself could comment on the issue (as opposed to commenting on procedure around the issue) – as Jayron has already suggested.

PS, I am what you might call an “involved” editor, and have thus not commented in this thread (until now). --Merbabu (talk) 01:17, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Their opinions are no less valid, it's just that they have a conflict of interest within the situation that has to be taken into account. The main points I wanted to make were that the discussion on banning had been running for less than two days with four users supporting the idea and two uncertain, to me the length of time and level of contribution - at this stage - does not show the consensus of the community required for such a ban. Guest9999 (talk) 13:58, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

I wish to clarify that I've no prior disputes with Coloane as my only direct contact with him so far wrt to the above case, is my reply to his posting at the Singapore talkpage dated Jan 3 & it ended there with a non-reply from him. Also, I've not advocated any specific action here earlier, except calling for a final resolution done thru' a community consensus when presenting the mentioned case and its relevant facts. If a vote is needed so as to wrap up this case once & for all, I'll cast my vote formally then. -- Aldwinteo (talk) 05:28, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Alternate proposal

That formal dispute resolution processes are started to receive wider community input on the behavior of editors here. Let's start with an WP:RFC. Any objections to this idea? --Jayron32.talk.contribs 06:31, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Dunno how this proposal will go mate, I hope this case will not 'loose steam' again & be consigned to the 'Archives' & forgotten like [9] & [10] earlier. Also, I fear that the longer this case drags on, more 'show-stoppers or proxies' may pop up to derail the case,[11] although it's a clear-cut case of recalcitrant behaviour based on its merits for all to see. -- Aldwinteo (talk) 08:26, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Well, unfortunately, it appears no one here cares much one way or the other, else we would have received more comments on this one. Users have valid concerns about a community ban so far; and if ArbCom will even accept this it needs to be shown that due process is followed and steps are taken at the community level to handle this. RFC seems a reasonable solution... --Jayron32.talk.contribs 08:33, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Proposed immediate topic bans

• After reviewing the diffs above, I support an immediate and permanent topic ban on this editor. Classic disruption, nothing more, nothing less. It's these type of editors that discourage good people from contributing. -- Bellwether ^B_C 08:35, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
• I concur that, since no editor has come forward to support or excuse Coloane's behaviour (not even Coloane - he now claims to have permanently retired from Wikipedia), an RFC seems a complete waste of productive editing time and give my Strong support for immediate topic bans on:

1. Asian topics other than Macau and Hong Kong
2. FACs and FARs

for a minimum period of 9 months. I am an "involved editor". Alice^✉ 09:21, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

• Strong support of the above including GAC & GAR ban as per his history logs. Unlike wat u think Jayron32, I believe this case is being monitored by many of his past victims & affected WikiProject groups but they're reluctant to comment or support further; either they have given up hope on seeing any final resolution again as per previous long drawn clashes/ANI episodes, or to avoid being seen as 'bullying' or 'involved editor' at this stage now. Let's get this done with so that everyone can move on & get back to our regular tasks in Wikipedia folks. -- Aldwinteo (talk) 09:46, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

• Is there a reason why this couldn't go to arbitration? Carcharoth (talk) 12:47, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

You are an administrator who I greatly respect, Carcharoth, so I am a bit puzzled by the implied implication that it should go to the ArbCom; I don't think there is any technical reason for not raising it at ArbCom (although they may decline to accept it). (It can't go to other forms of arbitration, I presume, because Coloane has stated on his user page that he is no longer participating in Wikipedia due to time constraints.) Alice^✉

• Support as this was my idea from the first. However, some users apparently felt this was too harsh. As to why this couldn't go before the arbiters; well it could, and no one can read their minds, they could accept it. However, based on a long history of precedent, ArbCom is more reluctant to take on cases where no prior attempts at behavior correction are undertaken at the community level. If these topic bans (GA, FA, and any Asia related articles except Macau and Hong Kong) are violated, THEN ArbCom will have something to work from. Lets atleast try to handle this at the community level before involving the ArbCom... --Jayron32.talk.contribs 14:00, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
• Semi-Support - Support ban on WP:FAC and WP:FAR for a period of less than one year, followed by a permanent ban if disruptive behaviour resumes. Final warning for disruptive behaviour on Asian topics followed by an immediate and indefinate ban if there is any further disruptive behaviour. Support ban only if (and then when) the editor resumes editing Wikipedia. Guest9999 (talk) 15:01, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
  • Well, duh. However, we should notify them of the ban if we decide to enforce it. They claim to be retired, and while that may be so for now, if and when they return, they need to know that the ban is in place (whetever we decide it should be). --Jayron32.talk.contribs 18:43, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Simple but informative notes (referencing this discussion) placed on Coloane's User and User Talk pages will suffice. Coloane will get the big orange message directing him to his talk page if and when he logs on again. Alice^✉ 18:53, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

• Support per my above comments. Orderinchaos 22:54, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

• Comments: Interesting. As far as I know, the previous ANI discussion [12] regarding similar behaviors had the conclusion: "a mentorship or some kind of user-user adoption would be in order." Notice that not even a formal warning is issued. And a couple of days later we're talking about an "immediate and permanent topic ban." Even blatant vandals are warned a few times before they are blocked. Shouldn't User:Coloane be at least warned first? That if his behavior continues, he will be banned from all FAC pages for a long, long time? It worries me to see such a severe measure is taken without warning the involved editor first. Since banning is used to prevent disruption to Wikipedia, not to punish users, and any further disruptions by Coloane can be easily identified, I don't see why you cant be more generous and forgiving. Josuechan (talk) 03:26, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

That ANI you referenced, like many, just fizzled out. That was a concluding comment - not a closing summation of the consensus reached, I would suggest.

There is no ban proposed here. There would be more than a million WArts (Wikipedia Articles) he could still edit. The topic ban is specific and proportional to the damage and disruption caused. He has been warned many times - not with templates but with comments left on talk pages. How would you suggest further disruption to Wikipedia by Coloane be prevented if not with the specific and directed and proportional measures proposed? Alice^✉ 03:41, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Why not just block/ban him outright? He's said he's effectively 'done' here anyway. HalfShadow (talk) 03:50, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

In response top Josuechan, his numerous responses to each of the ANI's shows that he is well aware that a) what he is doing is regarded as wrong and b) he doesn't seem to care. The fact that no-one left a generic uw-template on his talk page means little... We have no reason to doubt that he is fully aware what he did was unwelcome, and yet he continued it... --Jayron32.talk.contribs 04:04, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Maybe Coloane is fully aware that what he did was unwelcome. Maybe he is not. But that is not the point; the point is that he may not be aware of the severe consequence as he was not warned of that. He might have expected to be blocked/banned for a few days or a week. But come on, nine months? When someone is trying to kill you and you have a gun, you shoot his legs first, not his head. There's a reason why atomic bombs were dropped in Hiroshima first, then Nagasaki, but not Tokyo.

Any actions taken should be aimed at preventing disruptions, not punishing users. Banning Coloane on FAC/FAR discussions and other Asian topics for a long time would only induce him to assume a new identity to disrupt, if he chooses to do so. Think about it, a new user who aims secretly to game the system, and the good old Coloane: who's easier to spot? Josuechan (talk) 06:03, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

I agree that we should be primarily focussed on preventing damage to the project and you make a valid point about reincarnation. You seem to know him well - may I press you to answer my question and suggest the remedy that you think would be more effective, please, Josuechan? Alice^✉

That's a difficult question and I was secretly hoping I would not be pressed to answer it. But since you insist, here's my two cents. An economist would tell you that a user would assume a new identity when the benefits to do so are greater than the costs. What are the benefits? Well, he could get rid of maybe a dozen users who are keeping an eye on him and evade the ban. What are the costs? He would lose his some 1000 edits and the shiny barnstar. What I am saying is that banning him for nine months makes the reincarnation option too tempting to resist, as the benefits far outweigh the costs. Just ask yourself: with so many enemies and a ban of 9 months, while those 1000 edits could be made in maybe 3 months, wouldn't you just get a new account right away? So I say a ban of duration at most a month, otherwise it's counter-productive.

Note that Coloane is no vandals; he made quite a few valuable contributions. The ultimate solution is to lure him to make more edits, acquire more barnstars and build up a reputation, so that there's more at stake. But since whether he will come back or not is still a question, I'm not going to bore you any further. Josuechan (talk) 08:19, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

That's a very perceptive analysis, Josuechan.

Let me throw another variable into the calculation. Let us take Coloane at his word and assume he will be rather busy in his new job for, say, 2 months. That presumably means we should add on the time when he has no time to edit to your estimate of the attractive period for him to sit out a topic ban. That makes 3 months. I also think we should discount the fact that he will not be banned from editing - just banned from certain topics. He's not stupid and knows that if he appears at FACs, FARs, GACs & GARs he will be spotted as a sockpuppet and blocks begin. I think the discount that should be applied for this opportunity sacrifice should be quite large, but lets err on the conservative side. Would you support a topic ban of 4 months starting tomorrow? Alice^✉ 08:40, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

I like your spirit, Alice, but I'm in no position to bargain the duration of a "sentence." I'm just concerned about the procedural justice (severe punishment without a warning of the consequence) and whether such a punishment would have its desired effect. I do not oppose nor support the 4-month ban you mentioned, and seeing that all the people agree with your original 9-month ban proposal, you don't need my blessings to go ahead. Josuechan (talk) 11:02, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Actually, if he assumes a new identity to disrupt the project, the limited scope topic ban on not editing FA and GA discussions instantly becomes an indefinate block on both usernames as an abuse of sockpuppets to evade a ban. We don't avoid issuing sanctions because we fear that the person we are sanctioning may "cheat" to avoid them. If they do, they have broken ANOTHER rule, and that will be met by further action. However, I still haven't seen any reason why this user should NOT be proscribed from FA and GA discussions, beyond "he didn't know what he was doing would result in sanction" (he knew it was wrong; that he didn't know what punishment he risked is moot... He knew that he shouldn't do it and he did it anyways. The specifics of the sanction should not have entered into his calculation to decide to break the rules. Such a reasoning is rediculous.) and "He might just cheat to avoid the sanctions" (well, lets atleast assume SOME good faith here, and if he does, there will be additional consequences for his actions). --Jayron32.talk.contribs 20:18, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Image:Fred_after_pub.jpg

I would appreciate if an admin could restore this image (still hosted at answers.com here) which was deleted without going through the proper ifd process. We are having trouble getting decent free images as it is, so I don't think we need to be deleting images such as this which was highly likely imo to be a genuine upload- it is high res, and the user commented on the image here [13]. Gustav von Humpelschmumpel (talk) 00:42, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

I think deletion review is the best route to take in this instance. The scan seems original, and it was tagged CC-BY-SA. — Edokter • Talk • 01:13, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

The image didn't satisfy WP:CSD#I9 so I've undeleted it. We have WP:PUI & WP:IFD to deal with suspicious images, and this one appears genuine. ˉˉ^anetode╦╩ 20:57, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Still, it should be reviewed in terms of clarifying rights. User's only contribution; no overt assertion of having been the author of the picture or of some other way he'd have the rights to it, which given that it is a picture of a famous person seems particularly an issue (in that someone could well own it and argue that it has monetary value). - Jmabel | Talk 22:14, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

The overt assertion would have to be the upload itself, as supported by the caption and talk page post referenced above. Unfortunately, we have an absentee uploader with no set e-mail address. We are left with two options: AGF given no evidence to the contrary, or delete the image. ˉˉ^anetode╦╩ 00:56, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Or do some research as to whether the picture has been published elsewhere, and with someone else claiming copyright. - Jmabel | Talk 04:28, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

I think we should AGF here. The uploader knew when, where and in what circumstances it was taken and made a comment that seems perfectly genuine:

"This picture, taken in 1965 Freddie Mercury and his Isleworth Polytechnic student friends, after a lunchtime session at the pub. His rather conventional appearance hiding his hugely extrovert nature!". Gustav von Humpelschmumpel (talk) 12:23, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

I agree with the research approach. So far I haven't found anything using google image search, but if this photograph was previously published it is likely to have occurred in a print biography on Mercury. ˉˉ^anetode╦╩ 19:04, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Maybe I'm being a bit dense here but without a source or the uploader to ask how do we really know that the image is what it claims to be. Can it (or does it need to) be verified? Guest9999 (talk) 20:18, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

How do we really know the veracity of any image uploaded to Wikipedia? We are instructed to use our best judgment to decide whether any upload is accurate and useful. If a new account were to upload a low-rez but otherwise professional quality photograph of a celebrity, it would be foolish of us to accept it under a free license without corroboration. Then again, it is easy to trace such photographs by using GIS or searching the databases of Corbis, Getty, and other commercial content providers. In this case we have a decent-quality scan of a candid photograph described by the uploader. WP:V isn't an applicable policy since the issue isn't with the article and any prior publication used to verify this photo would likely invalidate its licensing status. Since this appears to be a candid shot from a private collection, we may never find any prior publications or commentary on it. For the purposes of this thread, the image did not fit the I9 speedy criterion. Deletion of this image can be suggested up by any user through a nomination to WP:IFD. The decision whether to use this photo should take place at Talk:Freddie Mercury. ˉˉ^anetode╦╩ 21:13, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Unlike an image that uses {{PD-self}} or {{GFDL-self}}, this template contains no claim of authorship. Nothing on that page states who the author is. It could have been the uploader, the uploader's grandfather, or something within a pay portion of a service like ancestry.com that wouldn't be indexed by Google. If the uploader had used PD-self or GFDL-self, we would have at least had a claim that we could choose whether or not we believe ... but here, no claim has even been made. The image is unsourced. --B (talk) 02:50, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Send it to PUI and let them determine the image status. I personally think deletion is the right course of action for the image, due to the various questions we have for it. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return Fire)} 07:02, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

The uploader hasn't been around since August and has no set e-mail address. You might as well delete the image. Sorry for wasting so much time on this one, the prospect appeared worthwhile. ˉˉ^anetode╦╩ 19:05, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Review of admin action welcome

I know that AN/I is often flooded with editors crying "admin abuse" at the drop of a hat, but I am somewhat concerned about this one. With the current arbitration case about episodes and characters, especially concerning redirects currently carrying on, it was disappointing to see another edit war on an article last night. What is very concerning, though, is admin User:PeaceNT's last edit to the article, restoring their preferred version whilst the article is in full protection. Whilst PeaceNT at first claims that this version is not their preferred one [14], they later admit that the edit "was done under IAR" and to "protect Wikipedia" from either ArbCom or deletionists - I'm not sure which ([15]}. This last comment really concerns me, as it suggests that not only was the article reverted to a preferred version (which is not good to begin with), but it wasn't even done through any semblance or intention of following policy. Comments welcome. BLACKKITE 07:25, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Oh boy, a long edit war with accusations of bad faith all around and virtually no discussion on the talk page. Given the length between the first redirecting and the edit war, as well as the somewhat unchallanged claim of individual notability, it seems quite unapparent what the correct wrong version is (unless the discussion took place somewhere else and I'm just completely unaware of it). Someguy1221 (talk) 07:34, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

I IARed and reverted what I perceived as the evidently non-consensual version, whether I preferred it or not didn't matter. Editors are certainly not allowed to delete/redirect articles on a whim, then persist on warring to get the page protected, especially when their conduct is being examined by the Arbcom. That said, I would have no problem if they use discussion and redirect the article based on consensus, when such thing is reached. - PeaceNT (talk) 08:08, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Consensus isn't the point here. You do not IAR and revert when an article is fully protected, even if it is in the Wrong Version - which, actually, I agree it probably is. That is unless there are serious issues such as BLP, which there aren't here. Your reasoning for doing so, which appears to be related to the ArbCom, strikes me as seriously worrying. BLACKKITE 09:02, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Just for the record, I am party to no Arbcom procedures. PeaceNT points at a lack of consensus for the redirect, and she has a weak point. There probably isn't one among Pee-Wee Herman fans. Still, the article is a 6 paragraph plot summary with no sourcing, so even if all the Pee-Wee Herman fans said "no redirect", policy would indicate that redirection was appropriate. Remember, this is not a democracy, and only arguments that are weighted in policy have weight at all. Given that, there is no urgent matter that required violating standing policy: PeaceNT was absolutely unjustified in editing the article in a protected state. A second admin, Merovingian, has also edited it while protected. His edits were mechanical, so I can't get too excited about those, but they still irritate me.Kww (talk) 12:35, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

There seem to be two names of the article: Pee-wee's Playhouse Christmas Special is at present an article, and apparently the one at controversy. Pee-wee's Christmas Special is a redirect to the list of episodes. DGG (talk) 16:19, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Editing the issue that article was protected for, is a no-no. Full article protection should apply to admins too. Seraphim ^Whipp 16:31, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

is a reasonable argument on the talk page over whether the notability of this episode, which apparently individually won an Emmy, has adequate sources. This is enough that consensus is required for the particular redirect. My personal position is that the change to the redirect for these articles, earlier and now, constituted vandalism, and any editor may revert as needed, and any admin can protect in the unvandalized state--but I know not everyone agrees with this evaluation of the overall situation. One could certainly say that changing back to a revert while the original series of reverts was under arbitration is not acceptable. An alternate technique, waiting until the article happens to be in the state you prefer, and then protecting it, is as much as violation of the spirit of the restrictions on administrative action as changing it first, though there is no explicit prohibition. Given the dissension, I wouldnt have done what Peace did. It was at best a little imprudent and aggressive. DGG (talk) 16:39, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Just as a follow-up note : PeaceNT seems to be moving in the direction of undoing redirects where she isn't personally convinced of the consensus. Fans of Bulbasaur are all upset because their favorite Pokemon isn't deemed to be more important than the other 400. So, today she agreed to revert a redirect (and presumably stand guard over it). At this time, she hasn't edited that article in its protected state, but even her stated intent establishes a pattern of editing. I have a hard to giving credence to her protestation that the unredirected version of the Pee-Wee article isn't her preferred version.Kww (talk) 13:03, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

So you assume that every editor who oppose redirection is Fans of Bulbasaur? On behalf of editors who try to build consensus for the discussion, I feel intensely insulted by that comment. @pple complain 18:20, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Addendum: Remember: this is not the Wikipedia complaints department. If you disagree with editing content or any related-redirection/merging issues, bring your views to relevant discussions, like Talk:List of Pokémon (1-20) or Talk:Bulbasaur‎. Complaint like "Fans of Bulbasaur are all upset because their favorite Pokemon isn't deemed to be more important than the other 400" is absolutely unappreciated and out of the context. @pple complain 18:37, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

(response to Kww -edit conflicted)

Oh dear, I reserve the right to learn from my mistake; I was hasty to revert the protected page yesterday, that, now I do acknowledge. But i don't see where your complaint is comming from, I haven't reverted any protected articles without consensus today, even though I must restate that I am firmly opposed to the soft deletion of a former FA without any consensus, thus in favor of undoing it. I only stated that I'd like to restore the page and start a formal discussion, AGF here, please. Don't accuse me of intending to edit war just because I am not "personally convinced of the consensus". "personally"? I beg your pardon? What about the DRV today where all administrators who participated felt the redirection was unjustified? What about the follow-up AfD where everyone voiced "keep" (except TTN, of course, since he or she was the one who redirected the page). A quick glance at Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Episodes and characters 2/Workshop will show you I'm not the only one there who is "personally" against this behaviour. I'm very sorry, but this continual misconduct in the form of redirecting/deleting without discussion has to stop I don't understand for the life of me why you posted a new thread at the end of ANI page accusing me of having "meat-puppet", with a charged heading; even if you felt certain that you were right, you could have continued with this current thread. Thanks, - PeaceNT (talk) 18:27, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

I refactored the title. I assumed that you and Trialsanderrors had communicated ... perhaps that assumption was unwarranted. Redirecting an article like Bulbasaur is not misconduct, and I strongly, strongly resent the implication that people that do so are vandals. Regardless, the article was protected as a redirect, and the redirect was undone while the article was protected.Kww (talk) 18:37, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

On review I see no reason to dispute PeaceNT's version of events above. This part of the matter should be closed IMO. Orderinchaos 22:58, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

More protection fun with PeaceNT and Trialsanderrors

Another long-standing redirection battle has been around Bulbasaur, one of the 400 Pokemon articles that was redirected to a list of Pokemon characters. This morning, while the article was full-protected, PeaceNT promised to restore the article from re-direction, calling the redirect "blatantly unjustified". Perhaps mindful of the controversy of her earlier editing of Pee-wee's Playhouse Christmas Special, where she also ignored all rules about the editing of protected articles, she did not do so. Instead, a couple hours later, User:Trialsanderrors changes article under protection, for the purpose of restoring an article, and adding an AFD notice, even though no one has been campaigning for deletion, just a redirect. Now that it is in her preferred state, PeaceNT unprotects, and now the AFD notice has been removed because, as Uncle G points out, no one ever requested a delete in the first place. Doesn't article protection mean anything anymore?Kww (talk) 17:50, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

No, not again. Who do you think is my "meat-puppet"? User:Trialsanderrors??? - PeaceNT (talk) 17:59, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Very funny, Kww. I am tired of the way you let your personal animosity towards PeaceNT, whose opinion differs from yours, spurring uncontrollably in your comments. The accusation of sockpuppets against two respected administrators is even more ridiculous. PeaceNT has clearly explained why she unprotected the Bulbasaur article, which is a very thoughtful decision. Try to dig out some more before creating more drama here. @pple complain 18:07, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

I'm not crying to create drama, I would like to see people obey a basic rule: do not edit protected articles for reasons related to the reason they are protected. Simple. Basic. Easy to follow. Violated again.Kww (talk) 18:19, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Violated again? Who? Unprotection with valid rationale is no way an evidence of policy violation. Not to mention that the hasty action from the protecting administrator in such case was questionable and injudicious. @pple complain 18:26, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

It was Trialsanderrors that edited a protected article in a protected state. I assumed that this was done in order to fullfill PeaceNT's promise. Perhaps they were unrelated, but this timing seems significant.Kww (talk) 18:32, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Kww, I think you misinterpreted the situation. I assume, based on what you wrote, that you believe User:Trialsanderrors is my meat puppet because he or she restored the article and started an AfD without visible talk page discussion, and after I said I would do so. In fact, you may see that User:Trialsanderrors closed a relevant DRV today, where the result was to relist the page in question. The admin edited the protected page properly to add the deletion notice. For the record, I am unrelated to User:Trialsanderrors; I never asked him/her to do anything for me and honestly I don't remember whether we ever talked. I hope this clarify the issue, please re-examine the situation. Thanks, - PeaceNT (talk) 18:42, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Kww, two admins performing the same action is far from a valid evidence for sockpuppet accusation. If you are still too enthusiastic with this sockpuppetry drama, make your own research and report it to WP:RFCU when enough proofs of relation between the two accounts are found, if any. Good luck. @pple complain 18:54, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

• Thanks for not notifying me of this discussion, I guess. For the record, I've closed about a thousand DRV discussions in my Wikilife, and I still regularly move the discussion to the related content forum if no admin deletion is to be discussed. I'm not always aware of explosive situations elsewhere, so I propose the best way to point them out to me is on my talk page. In this situation, I think I made clear that I have no editorial opinion on the article, nor do I actually know the editors involved. Keep on buzzing. ~ trialsanderrors (talk) 20:26, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Actions of User:Reino Helismaa

Plz, take the attention for Reino Helismaa (talk · contribs). His ru-wiki account ru:User:Reino Helismaa(block log) was blocked by me (as ru-wiki-sysop ru:User:Alex Spade) for a month, because his vandalism and sock puppets: ru:User:87.240.15.25(block log), ru:User:Pmmm(block log), ru:User:Hiljainen Soittaja(block log).

After that he have started to change the personal page/information in En-Wiki.

• [16], [17], [18] - assertive changes of my attribution.
• [19] - change of my language status.
• [20], [21] - the non-authorised upload of my photoportrait. (1) He is not author - this image was created in 2003 on Starcon-2003 (annual Russian Star Wars fans gathering) by another. (2) I'm not АЛЕКС СПАДЕ (or Алекс Спаде). My pseudonym is Alex Spade (Latin) or Алекс Спейд (Cyrillic) and nothing else - this is my attribution and only these variants of pseudonym is permitted. Alex Spade (talk) 14:27, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Заблокировали меня не Вы, а администратор Кalan, на срок до 6-го января. Вы лишь совершенно произвольно переблокировали на бОльший срок, чем предусмотрено правилами, без соответствующего решения АК; по электронной почте присылали оскорбительные письма с угрозой бессрочной блокировки. Так что не надо врать.--Reino Helismaa (talk) 17:03, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

No hablamos ruso aquí. Hable inglés por favor. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 17:27, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Reservation for removal of misunderstanding. I haven't been asking to analize and take into consideration actions of ru:User:Reino Helismaa in Ru-Wiki - this is just a prehistory. I am asking to analize only five actions, which are mentioned above, in accordance to Wikipedia:Civility in point "Defacing user pages" and some others. Alex Spade (talk) 17:46, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

In the interest of at least attempting to understand the above statement by Reino, I ran his text through Babelfish. Here's what it gave me. Do with it what you will:

• Blocked me not you, but administrator k.alan, for the period up to 6th January. You only completely arbitrarily interlocked for larger period than it is provided by rules, without the appropriate solution OF AK; insulting letters with the threat of termless blocking sent on the electronic mail. So that it is not necessary to lie. <--- babelfish translation of above.

That's all. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 17:40, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

If en-wiki-sysops are interested in more commentaries - why and how much times was Reino Helismaa blocked in Ru-Wiki - the brief review can be given. Alex Spade (talk) 17:50, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

No need to, I am not sure it will inform here, and can only serve to bias admins from making a neutral assessment of the situation. For the record, I gave him a stern warning at his talk page about vandalising other people's user pages. I consider that such a warning is sufficient action at this point. If he returns to vandalise your user page, even once more, or does so to any other user, a block will be issued. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 17:54, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

I have had a few interactions with this editor, who has been creating Finnish-language articles on the English Wikipedia, has uploaded a lot of images without valid copyright statuses, and doesn't respond to messages on his Talk page. He may have a communication problem, but the problems with him are escalating. Corvus cornix_talk 18:50, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Refusal to communicate, and refusal to acknowledge and react to warnings is still blockable as disruptive. If a user is warned, and the behavior continues, why not block? I have no idea if this is warrented here, but just a general statement. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 19:10, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Извините, что пишу по-русски, просто писать длинные тексты по-английски я к сожалению не умею.

Итак, попытаюсь объективно объяснить суть своего конфликта с Alex Spade. Первый раз он заблокировал меня ещё в сентябре прошлого года за то что я переименовал статью "Элвис Пресли" в "Пресли, Элвис" согласно правилам именования статей о персоналиях в русской Википедии (Фамилия, Имя), правда сделал это не совсем правильно, вручную перенеся содержимое страницы, уничтожив историю правок [22]. Однако он мог пояснить мне, как правильно переименовывать статьи, вместо этого он расценил это как вандализм и тут же меня заблокировал без предупреждения.

В следующий раз он заблокировал меня 9 декабря за то что я попытался заменить английские шаблоны быстрого удаления на русские, сочтя что в русской Википедии они более уместны [23] [24] [25]. Надо сказать, многие участники русской Википедии были недовольны таким решением (например Udacha, Silent1936 и многие другие, см. тут и тут).

Затем, уже после завершения этой блокировки, с моей стороны имело место нарушение ВП:ВИРТ. Однако за нарушение этого правила блокировка налагается до завершения голосования, в котором было нарушено правило. В данном случае голосование, в котором я нарушил правило, закончилось 6 января этого года, следовательно, максимально допустимый срок блокировки - до 6 января. Администратор Kalan заблокировал меня именно на такой срок, но Alex Spade переблокировал меня на больший срок без соответствующего решения Арбитражного Комитета, в нарушение всяких правил. После этого я отпраил ему письмо по электронной почте, пытаясь объяснить недопустимость такого самоуправства, однако он отказал, не приведя никаких аргументов. Тогда я снова отправил письмо, и он снова отказал - и снова не привёл аргументов. В третий раз он прислал мне письмо, состоящее только из одних угроз и оскорблений, и дал понять, что дальше обсуждать ничего не намерен. Затем я отправил ещё несколько писем, на которые он не ответил. Тогда я был просто ВЫНУЖДЕН несколько раз вандализировать его личную страницу на Викискладе и здесь, надеясь хотя бы таким образом принудить его объяснять свои действия. Однако, как видно, даже это не помогло.

P.S. Кстати, ещё до Нового Года я писал об этом в финской Википедии (см. здесь), и там несколько участников также согласились с недопустимостью того что делает Alex Spade.--Reino Helismaa (talk) 02:46, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

• (Isn't there some sort of 'For God's sake use English' clause while communicating here?) HalfShadow (talk) 02:51, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Free Translation, courtesy Google. Diffs go to the Russian Wikipedia, and VP:VIRT was linked to our WP:SOCK, so I re-added that link. UltraExactZZ ^Claims ~ Evidence 02:56, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Sorry that I write in Russian, simply write lengthy texts in English unfortunately, I can not.

So, try to objectively explain the essence of their conflict with Alex Spade. The first time he blocked me back in September last year for an article that I changed the "Elvis Presley" to the "Presley, Elvis' according to the naming articles on the personalities in the Russian Wikipedia (Name), but did so not entirely correct, manually moving content of the page, destroying history of edits [26]. But he could explain to me how to rename the article, instead it is regarded as vandalism and immediately blocked me without warning.

The next time he blocked me on 9 December for what I have tried to replace the British templates for quick removal of Russian, finding that the Russian Wikipedia they fit better [27] [28] [29]. Indeed, many participants were dissatisfied with the Russian Wikipedia such a decision (eg Udacha, Silent1936 and many others, see here и here).

Then, after the completion of the lock, with my hand there has been a violation VP:VIRT. But for the breach of the rules imposed by blocking until the voting, in which the rule has been violated. In this case the vote, in which I broke a rule, ended on 6 January of this year, therefore, the maximum allowable term of the lock - until January 6. Administrator Kalan blocked me for that period, but Alex Spade pereblokiroval me at the longer term without a decision by the Arbitration Committee, in violation of any rules. After that I otprail him a letter by e-mail, trying to explain the inadmissibility of such arbitrariness, but he refused, not giving any reasons. Then again, I sent a letter, and he refused again - and again gave no arguments. For the third time, he sent me a letter, consisting only of some threats and insults, and made it clear that he did not discuss further intends. Then I sent several more letters, which he had not responded. Then I was just VYNUZHDEN several times vandalizirovat his personal page on Vikisklade here, hoping at least thus forcing him to explain his actions. But, as you can see, even this did not help.

P.S. Actually, even before the New Year, I wrote about it in the Finnish Wikipedia (see here), where several participants also agreed on the avoidance of what makes Alex Spade .-- Reino Helismaa (talk) 02:46, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

He's still uploading improperly sourced and copyrighted images, and when others tag the images, he removes the tag - [30]. Corvus cornix_talk 05:01, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Did I read this right? Did Reino just say "several times vandalizirovat his personal page on Vikisklade here, hoping at least thus forcing him to explain his actions." He admits to vandalising? Jeez... Also, I am leaving the "please use english" warning. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 05:11, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

To Corvus cornix: [31]--Reino Helismaa (talk) 16:51, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

A caution on BetacommandBot deletions related to disambigation pages

There's a problem with the way BetacommandBot handles disambiguation pages, which results in deletion of properly tagged fair use images. The usual sequence of events is:

1. Uploader uploads image, links it from page A, and provides proper fair use template for page A on the image page.
2. Another editor moves A to B and makes A a disambiguation page, but does not change the fair use template. (Arguably, they should have fixed the incoming link from the fair use notice to A, but it's not a link from article space, so it's not customary to fix it.)
3. At some later time, BetacommandBot finds the image page, checks the incoming and outgoing links, notes that there's an incoming link from page B but no outgoing link to page B, and flags the image as lacking a fair use template. The image uploader is notified, but not the creator of the dab page. (Arguably, BetacommandBot should check the page move history, notice that B used to be named A, and fix the fair use template.)
4. The uploader gets a talk page message from BetacommandBot, but doesn't act on it. (It's not really the uploader's problem; their work was done back at step 1. The uploader may not even be active on Wikipedia.)
5. One week later, BetacommandBot schedules the image for deletion.
6. An admin, working off the BetacommandBot list, deletes the image. (Arguably, the deleting admin should manually check for this situation.)

The author of BetacommandBot says it's the responsibility of the creator of the dab page to fix this. (ref) A comment in Wikipedia talk:Disambiguation says the deleting admin should check. I'd suggest that BetacommandBot needs to be smarter and check move histories; it has over 700,000 edits, and humans can't keep up. Meanwhile, admin caution at that final delete step is indicated. --John Nagle (talk) 18:01, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

BetacommandBot has had problems like this for some time. It does good work, however the number of false positives due to misinterpreted redirects and dabs is unfortunate. Betacommand has been made aware of these issues in the past. I will not speak for him, but when I brought this same issue up before, he denied that the bot did this at all. If this is a problem, it is helpful to know ways in which the bot is making confusing and/or problematic tagging so that it can be made to run more efficiently in the future. I agree that this bot function is important, but I would like to see more responsive upgrades made to the bot so that its work results in less false positives like above. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 18:21, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Previous issues were with redirects, which were apparently an issue with the MediaWiki API. The bot should be able to follow redirects, it can't however, determine which article on a disambiguation page to follow. Mr.Z-man 18:37, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

there is not a simple method of parsing DaB pages. some of the move,redirect,DaB creations are very complex and not parsable. And links in NFUR's that are Dabs, mean that the rationale for that image/use is invalid. β^_command 18:48, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

PS you also forgot to state that BCbot leaves a warning about the image on the talkpage of every page where the image is used. β^_command 18:50, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Thats rational. I agree; with regard to dab pages, the bot (and other users) should not have to decide which page in the dab it is supposed to follow. Perhaps, could the bot somehow provide a different warning for situations where it appears that a move-redirect-dab construction is the fault? Such as a special warning like "The fair use rationale currently links to a disambiguation page. The rationale may need to be updated to reflect a page move. Please update the rationale so that the image will not be deleted." That seems a reasonable thing to do; the bot should be able to look for markers on special kinds of pages and then tailor its warning messages based on the type of problem it encounters, shouldn;t it? --Jayron32.talk.contribs 19:08, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

the issue is the bot only sees the pages where the image is used (and redirects to those pages). the bot does not examin what links here, or even the links on that page. what the bot does see is a blob of text and a list of page titles where the image is used. it then checks the text for at least one of those. it doesnt do anything fancy it does not check for wikilinks all it checks for is the name of the article. β^_command 19:21, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Most dab pages are easily identified by a machine, due to the use of a template that includes the word "disambiguation". I suggest Betacommand upgrade BCbot to detect this situation and put such images in a separate clean-up category. I also suggested that the image page be checked for the existence of a non-free rationale template in general, so that images with rationales can have their links fixed by humans, as opposed to pages without rationales where a human has to do more work to fix the image (if needed). Carcharoth (talk) 12:57, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Carcharoth, you missed my point. BCBot only sees the pages where the image is used. how is is supposed to find a DaB page when it does not know where to look, NFUR are not standard, there are no real methods of checking them except for what I am doing. β^_command 17:12, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia bot policy (WP:BOT) is that bots must be "harmless". Bots are not allowed "collateral damage". It's the responsibility of the 'bot's author to handle the hard cases in a harmless way. If they can't, the 'bot must be turned off. Technically, it's possible to fix this. Check the move log to find past names of the page; don't rely on redirects. --John Nagle (talk) 19:32, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

---

Humorous note: there are editors who reply to BetaCommandBot as if it were a live person, and answer the messages it leaves on their talk page. It does sound like a chatterbot at times. --John Nagle (talk) 19:32, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

the final touch?

Graham Wellington (talk · contribs) is a long-time problematic editor with highly dubious intentions. See his talk page and contrib history. Until now, he has managed to stay just below the action-taking point. This edit summary, however, puts it over the top. --brewcrewer (yada, yada) 19:48, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

I guess next step is RfC? cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 19:54, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Am I missing something? That would seem to be a POV-loaded edit summary, but what's actionable about "the beauty of Judaism"? - Revolving Bugbear 20:08, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Yes you are missing something. Adding that a criminal is Jewish doesn't bring out the "the beauty of Judaism." And that's his modus operandi - plastering "he is jewish" on criminals etc....--brewcrewer (yada, yada) 20:12, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

I think you need to see it in context of previous edits; a lot of his previous edits are adding Jewish categories to the likes of criminals, porn stars etc. (Though, there's also what look like good-faith edits too). BLACKKITE 20:11, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Okay, thanks for clearing that up. I wasn't looking at the article, just the edit itself. Sorry. </stupid> - Revolving Bugbear 20:29, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Looking at his contribs history, his edit summaries are VERY problematic, and looking at his user page he has been warned before. A choice collection of OTHER edit summaries, in addition to the one noted above:

[32] threatens other user with admin sanction...

[33] additional questionable statements about jewish people.

[34] crackpots???

Additionally, his entire edit history consists almost ENTIRELY of:

Dubious "proof" that various mass murders, notorious criminals and other "unsavory" people were Jewish [35] and [36] and [37] and [38]

That other notable Jews were guilty of or suspected of crimes [39]

This seems like a suspicious pattern of edits, and needs to be addressed. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 20:22, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Don't forget that he also views Albert Einstein as a fraud and is unwilling to credit him with E=mc2 ([40]). Given this editor's particular history, his interest there could credibly be thought to stem from the fact that Einstein was Jewish, rather than his deep abiding interest in the history of 20th-century theoretical physics. Even assuming the most optimistic best-case scenario about his intentions, his edits fall entirely into the patterns described above of ascribing Judaism to distasteful figures while minimizing or discounting positive accomplishments by people who happen to be Jewish, and I've blocked him for 31 hours for disrupting Wikipedia to advance his point. I would suggest that an RfC proceed to explore the question of whether he might expand and improve his editing, and whetherh his continued presence on Wikipedia would be constructive. MastCell ^Talk 20:57, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

A bold move, but I don't disagree with the final result. I think the user has yet to show any good-faith edits, and the longer he is editing articles, the more clear his POV-pushing has become. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 21:01, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

I cannot see how a block will solve the underlying problem, and I cannot say I'm looking forward to the RfC. DGG (talk) 21:07, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

a block will stop his disruptions. i favor a indefinite community ban for this user, to be repealed ONLY in the evnet of genuine contrition and a promise to attempt to wokr with other editors instead of warring against them. Smith Jones (talk) 21:20, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

In general, an RFC in this case will atleast show due process. I agree it will be messy. I see an ArbCom in the future over this issue, but we should atleast exhaust all other routes before this gets that far. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 21:22, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Has this editor added any value to this project? I confess, I'm missing the part where we should use kid gloves in handling a hate-monger and anti-semitic. I don't see that its worth wasting time on this. Please let me know why we aren't simply blocking this editor for a month or three hundred, and re-blocking every time he does it again, up to and including indef. KillerChihuahua^?!? 21:35, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

i have no idea why not KillerChihuahua. all this dickering around does is encourage the vandal. i can understnad the desire for 'due process' by forming an RFC (although it wl be a waste of time -- the user has showns no interest in wikipedia and while i try to asume good faith this user seems to be acting maliciousl and with disregard for the feling and sentiments of his fellow users. i recommend an indefinite ban that will only be lifted if the user apologizes an d promises to try to work with other users against instead of using violence and racism. Smith Jones (talk) 21:40, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

EDIT: SERIOUSLY look at his diffs. he blatatly tries to use his admin status to force andother user to kowtow to his demands.

and if you look mclosely at his other difs, you will jnotice a virulent strain of politicla hatread and anti-Semitism. that is unhelpful tow ikipedia orwikipedia's ineterests.

and furhter more,— Preceding unsigned comment added by Smith Jones (talk • contribs)

It would be a bit difficult for him to use his admin status to do anything, as he never had it to begin with. That being said I agree with the block. Orderinchaos 23:02, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

I think that may go too far at this point. If an indefinite comprehensive ban is imposed, it is drastic enough that an ArbCom decision should give it, not us. Also, the RFC in question may reach the conclusion that a community topic ban on all articles relating to Judaism, and on all edits regarding Jewish ethnicity may be enforced. Likewise, the admins here at ANI may reach the same conclusion, and enforce their own community ban. There is good reason to let due process run its course. I will admit that this users past edit history is not encouraging, but lets at least GIVE him enough rope... and wait to see what he does with it. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 21:44, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Due process? You mean Rules-Wankery? I've made 49 indef blocks. None were a result of an ArbCom decision. None have ever been overturned. I will cheerfully6 paste them all here, or email to anyone who emails me and asks for the list. An indef block is simply a block with no expiration, which can be overturned by any admin. No need for ArbCom. No need for Rfc. KillerChihuahua^?!? 21:56, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

I have made many indefiniate blocks myself, for clear-cut cases of vandalism and abusive sockpuppetry and other clear cases. However, this is not one of those cases, in my opinion. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 22:04, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Why not? This reads as short, I apologise - its a simple question. I honestly don't see why not. KillerChihuahua^?!? 22:17, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Seriously, you state "I think the user has yet to show any good-faith edits" which means he has no value-add. Why do you think this is "not one of those cases"? KillerChihuahua^?!? 22:28, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Honestly, I considered just blocking him for a longer period, or indefinitely, and being done with it. In fact, I had "1 month" in the drop-down window and changed my mind at the last moment. In the end, the pendulum has currently swung to a point where even blocks of editors with long track records of being up to no good are controversial, or likely to be overturned because shorter blocks hadn't been imposed first or an RfC hasn't been run through. So I decided to balance rougeness with my lack of desire to squabble over an longer block. Admittedly, though, this could be viewed as a punt. I will go on record as favoring a longer block of 1 month to indefinite, and being willing to impose it, if there is reasonable agreement here and no major objection (of course, if you support the block, you'll probably end up in the dock before ArbCom next to me as part of the "kangaroo court", so be warned...) MastCell ^Talk 22:04, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

NB there is an {{unblock}} request up, based on free-speech and other grounds, which I'll leave to someone uninvolved to review. MastCell ^Talk 22:20, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

I added a comment pointing him to WP:FREE before I saw this here. KillerChihuahua^?!? 22:29, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

I had prepared a report for AN/I many weeks ago should circumstances dictate. To summarise, my good faith has long been exhausted and I would endorse an indefinite block of him. I first contacted "Graham" when I reverted an edit adding an unquestionably irrelevant link to the King David Hotel bombing. Cursorily glancing at his talk page caught my attention and, having reviewed his contribution history and interactions with others, I decided to leave a more substantive message than I originally anticipated. My intention was to communicate my concerns (as both an editor and admin'), introduce him to the fundamentals of Wikipedia, give him the benefit of the doubt, and hopefully allay concerns that had already been expressed long before my first message. He has demonstrated that he has no intention of heeding such advice and his continued behaviour and editing pattern is unquestionably consistent with an editor who is engaged in a disruptive agenda that is inherently incompatible with the project.

His avowed ip 67.83.219.204 (talk · contribs) has exhibited a similar pattern, including this edit - the implication is explicit when one factors in that Google suggest he is/was in reality Catholic. He has gravitated predominantly towards controversial articles, with a BLP dimension, invariably to identify someone as Jewish - usually implicated in some form of criminal activity (one of the most inexplicable) ). Relevant discussions are located at the talk pages of Graham Wellington and Brewcrewer (talk · contribs), whose well-intentioned comments and legitimate actions were (repeatedly) described by the former as vandalism. I had originally hoped it was the result of inexperience, Wellington nevertheless continued to accuse Brewcrewer of stalking long after the original discussion here. There have been many disturbing comments authored by Wellington, many of which have been highlighted on his talk page; an example: [41]. Wikipedia must not indulge those who exhibit all the characteristics of an unashamedly tendentious editor. Lets keep things in perspective. SoLando (Talk) 22:31, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

In light of the above, I've seen enough to extend his block to indefinite. I don't think that Wikipedia needs to play host to the sort of campaign this user is apparently engaged in, and if a year on-wiki isn't enough for constructive contributions to emerge then there's reason to be pessimistic for the future. I won't object if another admin decides to unblock him, though I would ask in that case that the unblocking admin be willing to follow up on further complaints against this editor. MastCell ^Talk 23:18, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

• Endorse, and add that anyone who wishes to unblock should post their rationale here. KillerChihuahua^?!? 23:25, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Ditto. SoLando (Talk) 23:34, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

as nom ;-).--brewcrewer (yada, yada) 01:13, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Pffft, objection? No chance. Endorse. BLACKKITE 01:20, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Snowball endorse FWIW. cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 02:30, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Eh... Probably a fine move. It would have been interetsing to see where he would have gone had he been aloud to continue under a topic ban, but admitedly my good faith in this user was nearly spent. End result was what I expected, even if I was willing to give them another chance. No big loss here. Endorse as well. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 06:07, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Arbcom

Compare Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/Adam_Cuerden#Request_for_comment_on_Finding_of_Fact_.239_.28Adam_Cuerden.29

with Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Matthew_Hoffman/Proposed_decision#Adam_Cuerden.27s_use_of_administrative_tools

Note that there are new votes on the second one. New support votes

Question: Has the Arbcom even bothered to read this RfC that they ordered? Because I have been asking them for two months to explain that finding of fact, and brought it up in the RfC because it seemed so problematic, but they refuse to comment on it at all.

The arbcom, after this RfC have now added another, new way to desysop me to their list of proposals - one that says that I can't be trusted as an editor either. Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Matthew_Hoffman/Proposed_decision#Proposed_decision_-_Adam_Cuerden

Is there evidence for that new, bold assertion that I can't be trusted to follow community norms as an editor? If so, it's hard to see where, since, you know, they don't bother to say.

In short, I have no faith whatsoever in the arbcom's ability to reacch a fair decision, since they show no signs of reading what I e-mail them, whether through Jimbo, (as was done two months ago), through Arbcom members, through mass mailings. They seem to be ignoring the RfC as well.

Can anything be done about the Arbcom, in situations like this? I edit under my own name, and am not looking forwards to having these things show up on google for the rest of my life. Adam Cuerden ^talk 04:14, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

You need to be more disruptive, and tenaciously promote far-fringe agendas or conspiracy theories. Then people will rush to your defense. HTH. Raymond Arritt (talk) 04:19, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

The case is resuming. It is not being handled as I would have advocated, but when things are handled by a committee of 15 people, sometimes they are going to disagree about things. I thought that arrangements had been made such that project-space pages no longer showed up on Google, but if that is not the case I can have the arbitration pages courtesy-blanked after the case is resolved. Newyorkbrad (talk) 04:28, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

See [42] Adam Cuerden ^talk 04:34, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Brad, finding of fact 9 makes very specific claims that appear to me to be obviously and unquestionably not true. Adam has asked directly about it here and on the RFC. I asked directly about it on the proposed decision talk page a month ago, as did others. In the case of Homeopathy and George Vithoulkas, no reasonable person could say that Adam used the tools in such a way as to gain an advantage. Could you, or another arbiter, explain this finding of fact? Thanks. --B (talk) 04:35, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

I'm also annoyed that the new proposed remedy compounds this by implying that my editing behaviour (as opposed to admin tool use) has not been within community norms, and requires 6 months monitoring to make sure I can edit appropriately to community norms. Where on earth is that suggestion coming from? Adam Cuerden ^talk 04:53, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Please excuse me for being sarcastic, but if Adam started making articles like Blue Cheese Moon, Time is like an oval, Telepathic animal husbandry and Magical talking rocks and so on, and fighting frantically for the value of these, then Adam would come under the protection of senior members of the community and be a protected trusted contributor to Wikipedia. Adam's fault is that he tries to defend NPOV and mainstream science. He is on the wrong side.--Filll (talk) 05:01, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

(ec, response to Adam's initial post and Raymond's response) Sarcasm aside, this was one of the most bizarre and unsatisfactory ArbCom cases I've ever witnessed. The case was brought by a sitting Arbitrator as a "test case" to examine the principle that we should desysop people more aggressively, or something. This was in the added, and explicitly stated, subtext that Adam was running for ArbCom at the time. It opened with rapid acceptance of the case in the absence of typical dispute resolution, in response to a slew of still-unrefactored personal attacks and abuse from the initiating Arbitrator. Within 12 hours of the case opening, there were draconian proposals put forward by Arbitrators for wide-ranging disciplinary action against Adam, including desysopping with extreme prejudice and barring Adam from any future RfA, as well as formally censuring a passing admin who declined an unblock request. There was a period of reactive sanity where a few of the more draconian or factually incorrect findings were withdrawn, and ultimately the case was suspended for an RfC which ought to have been a prerequisite for taking the case in the first place. The RfC showed community disapproval of some of Adam's actions, but general support for retention of the sysop bit. Now the conclusion is that he should be desysopped for 6 months and remain on probation for another 6 months after that, because resuming the case would be "problematic due to passage of time".

The problem here is that Adam's selection as a "test case" was, to the outside observer, highly capricious and arbitrary. While he had made mistakes, he was not afforded the usual dispute-resolution and feedback mechanisms; instead, it was decided to make an example out of him pour encourager les autres. That is bad for morale; the fact that the test case devolved into a mess doesn't help. As to what can be done, the answer is probably not much. ArbCom is composed of human beings. I think the best that can be done is to recognize that ArbCom is made up of human beings, to note the RfC findings, request a courtesy blanking, and make a decision about how strongly you want to continue to contribute to Wikipedia. At the very least, hopefully we've seen the last "test case", but that's not much comfort. MastCell ^Talk 05:02, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Let me ask a silly question here - is there evidence that has been submitted privately that we don't know about? Quite frankly, this case is nothing but a chilling effect for all admins - you better hope you didn't make a bad block based on bad advice six months ago or you may be desysopped. Now that an RFC has expressed overwhelming opposition to the desysop proposal, the committee is drafting a new proposal that will prevent undoing the damage via an RFA (which, based on the RFC, probably would have passed within about 1 week and 20 minutes after the desysopping took effect). Is there something that the arbiters know that we don't? Because if not, I must have really bad reading comprehension skills. --B (talk) 05:08, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Personally, this seems like making mountains out of molehills here. I do not intend to alter my blocking or protection habits at all based on this. For the record, there does NOT, as noted in the RFC and above, appear to be a push to remove his sysop tools and block access to RfA. The solution with the most support at this point appears to be that he is desysoped at this point, but is fully free to reseek them at any time, including by RfA. Also, Adam's own proposed solution, that he is on admin waiver for 6 months, and be regranted his tools upon showing good behavior, seems to also have some support among the arbcom. Let's not take an "us against them" mentality with the ArbCom. I am not sure such a mentality is terribly productive. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 06:25, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

...I never suggested that. Adam Cuerden ^talk 06:28, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

No, nor I. ArbCom does a remarkably good job in the vast majority of the very difficult cases which come before them. I'm saying that I think this particular case was poorly handled. Whether it's a mountain or a molehill depends on whether you're Adam, I suppose, or on how closely you can identify with his situation. Having been tentatively shopped as a "test case" myself, maybe I'm overly sensitive. MastCell ^Talk 06:33, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

B, I think they are looking at the RfC closely- at the defense, not at the votes per se. I don't think other admins have anything to worry about. ——Martin^phi ☎ Ψ Φ—— 06:32, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Adam, maybe saying this is not going to help because of who I am. But please give it a chance and listen anyway. I said during the RfC exactly what I thought you needed to do- the first thing was to basically stop the general user behavior which you think is alright because you undertake it in the defense of what you believe is scientifically correct. I can sympathize with the view that if one user is right, their actions should be given license because of it. But I don't think that is what the ArbCom wants to hear. I tried to tell you, anyway. I think you're a good guy and a good editor, and you can have your tools back someday. Just don't act like the fringies are an inferior lot and get to be treated badly because of it (even though you think so). I genuinely think that factor, and the defense which grew out of it "look at what the fringies did, so what I did was OK," is what pushed it to this stage. Stop listening to those who tell you this: they are wrong, and you are losing your admin tools because of it. Maybe it isn't fair that you are the one to be made an example of, but the ArbCom is pretty obviously talking about the general situation. It is also probably talking about the defense on the RfC, judging that the defense "look at the fringies," and the user behavior which occurred because you are fighting the fringies, was not according to community standards. What other behavior could they be talking about in the new thing about general user conduct? I'm not meaning to poke you while you're down. And believe it or not I'm not here to gloat, because I really would have been happy if you'd just stopped acting as you were. I'm really trying to help, and I believe you will be an admin again. And a good one. Let me know and I'll vote for you per the ArbCom. ——Martin^phi ☎ Ψ Φ—— 06:32, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Query to folks who have the tools

During the RFC phase new evidence came to light. Adam had been brought to arbitration for a "bad block" on an account that he thought was a disruptive sockpuppet. Those of use who aren't sysops can't examine the new evidence because the entire editing history of the possible sockmaster account has been deleted - we can only gather from administrator conversations that this second account may have been a sock of the same editor. Could someone who has the tools please summarize this for the rest of us? Seven arbitrators still maintain that Adam's blocks were outside policy and six of seven have still signed onto a finding that affirmatively states There is no evidence to suggest that Matthew Hoffman is a sock puppet. Is this correct? Is there no evidence even suggestive of that? Since this was the ostensible reason for opening the case in the first place, I'd like to understand. Durova^Charge! 07:34, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Any hints as to the name of the hypothetical puppetmaster? Don't say it out loud; just point in the appropriate direction. Raymond Arritt (talk) 07:48, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Here you go. Durova^Charge! 08:44, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

• Mateohoffman (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log)
• MatthewHoffman (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log)

I've reviewed the contributions (active and deleted ones), and I can confirm that though the MatthewHoffman account (1 October 2005) was created before the Mateohoffman account (6 May 2007), the editing history does not overlap. MatthewHoffman edited from 15-16 September 2007. Mateohoffman edited from 6-9 May 2007. Mateohoffman has only deleted contributions to Matthew Hoffman and Talk:Matthew Hoffman (what looks like an autobio). Mateo can be a separate name to Matthew, and can also be an alternate version of Matthew. There are also lots of Matthew Hoffmans around. The autobio content is suggestive of certain conclusions, but should not be discussed as it contains private information. It is possible these accounts were created by the same person. It is also possible that they are different people. The same almost certainly applies to the accounts pointed out by RBaley below. I would urge those who think this means anything conclusive to look through the user logs and see how many accounts are created by people with similar names. And to remember that religious and science areas are a popular area to edit. It is not inconceivable that two people with similar names will (a) edit Wikipedia and (b) edit the same area (or display an interest in the same area). It would not be fair on this Matthew Hoffman, or the other Matthew Hoffmans, to go any further with this. Adam has expressed concerns about how this will impact on his name. The same holds true for the Matthew Hoffmans of this world. Carcharoth (talk) 12:05, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

I don't know if these registered names are relevant or not but they are similar. . .R. Baley (talk) 09:09, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

• Mathoffman99 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

  Mathofmann (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

  Matt hoffman (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

  Matthewhoff (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

  Matthoff (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

  Matthoff96 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

  Matthoffner (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

  Mattius Hof (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

  Mattmhoffman (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

  Mattyhoff (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

  Hoffymatt76 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

And for the record, the vast majority of the above accounts are completely inactive - maybe only created to enable certain viewing preferences. Creation dates (where available) range from 2005 to 2008. The only deleted contributions made by the above accounts are to Matt Hoffner by the Matthoffner account (another nn-autobio) and to Daniel M. Cook by the Mattius Hof account (again, another nn-bio, note was left on the talk page of the account linking the two, so revealing this here is not a breach of privacy). The three nn-bios all describe different people. Which kind of proves my point. Let's stop trying to ferret out sock-puppetry when the point here is that relatively inexperienced edits (the top-posting, for a start), with a knowledge of policy (pages anyone can read before beginning to edit) were met with a bad block that was compounded by bad advice and an extension of the block to indefinite. I haven't looked through the recent indefinite blocks, but I hope the situation has improved since. Carcharoth (talk) 12:27, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

the committee is drafting a new proposal that will prevent undoing the damage via an RFA (which, based on the RFC, probably would have passed within about 1 week and 20 minutes after the desysopping took effect). - then this can become a test case on whether Arbcom really does have the authority it claims to forbid an RFA. It is manifestly unclear where this supposed authority derives from, since Arbcom's authority is an extension of Jimbo's authority, and Jimbo's authority derives from being a highly respected user on en.wikipedia. I see no legitimate basis for Arbcom to override the will of the community. —Random832 13:30, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

In that case, let's just MFD the arbcom case then. The community made it loud and clear that this case is abusive. --B (talk) 00:08, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

• on the original question perhaps it should be reiterated as policy that WP space is off limits to Google. I too thought that was the policy. People can still search the material from within WP , and that is all that is necessary for proper transparency. DGG (talk) 15:57, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Oxford Round Table

This page was recently protected owing to a protracted edit war between User:Obscuredata and three other editors: User:Academic2007, User:Academic38, and User:Nomoskedasticity. A report for breach of WP:3RR was made, and the page protection was the outcome. I have been trying to help all editors involved to reach a consensus, but User:Obscuredata appears intent on continuing to edit war now that the page is unprotected. There is some discussion on the talk page, but it's primarily intentions of being bold against a consensus to which other editors have arrived. Could an admin please look in on this? I think another round of page protection might be an idea to let everyone cool off again. I've been trying to improve the article content, and a few other editors joined the fray to make improvements too, but the problem is that there are two 'sides' with a conflict of interest here (critics of the ORT vs. an employee or affiliate of the ORT), and really I'm finding it tough. If anyone has the time to take a look it could really do with some additional input...! Coldmachine^Talk 19:31, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Just a note to say that I respectfully disagree with the notion that I have a conflict of interest in relation to the Oxford Round Table page. I have done some editing on the page, but mainly my efforts have been on the talk page, trying to convince Obscuredata to consider his/her edits in relation to relevant wikipedia policies and guidelines.

Coldmachine, perhaps I am misreading what you have posted here and you don't intend to include me in that category. Would you be willing to post something on my talk page to clarify? Thanks... Nomoskedasticity (talk) 11:45, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

I'm not at all suggesting that your efforts haven't been in good faith, but the logs from all of the users involved in this edit war suggest to me that there is some underlying conflict of interest:

• User:Academic2007 signed up on 11th December 2007: Nearly all edits to Oxford Round Table: as shown here

• User:Franknfair signed up on 11th December 2007 also:

Nearly all edits to Oxford Round Table: as shown here - this user was later blocked for an infringement of WP:NLT.

• User:Obscuredata signed up on 16th January 2008:

Nearly all edits to Oxford Round Table: as shown here

• User:Academic38 followed suit and signed up on 20th January 2008: Nearly all edits to Oxford Round Table: as shown here

• And finally User:Nomoskedasticity signed up on 23rd January 2008, and also with nearly all edits to the Oxford Round Table article as shown here

I'm assuming good faith and trying to assist these editors overcome their differences and work towards a neutral article. At present User:Obscuredata is the edit warrior in this situation, but all parties seem to have a vested interest in the content on this article, and that several users joined to edit a single article (WP:SPA aside) shortly after a debate on a forum relating to higher education issues, is unlikely to be a coincidence. As I say, it's only User:Obscuredata who is edit warring, but I think everyone could do with a break from working on this article, and the article itself could benefit from a 3rd party outside view. Coldmachine^Talk 12:11, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

User:81.243.6.193 continiously adding unsourced personal opinion to International School of Brussels

I hope that this is the right place for this; I don't know where else to put it.

User:81.243.6.193 is constantly inserting this to International School of Brussels even after I've told them to stop doing so (section on their talk page) because it's not notable. They have admitted that they're doing so because "if any student would like to join a school to purposely join the rugby team as an outside school activity, they should not attend ISB as their rugby team is obviously incompetent." Hence, this simply seems to be trolling. --Zabadab (Talk) @ 19:58, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Not to mention it is not properly sourced. I have left the user a warning. Tiptoety ^talk 20:01, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Seems to be also adding this kind of stuff in other articles [43], maybe a 3 hour block is due. Tiptoety ^talk 20:07, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

List of hooligan firms repeated vandalism by sockpuppets

JackQPR (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) was originally blocked for edit warring on the above article on 14th January. He then edited as an ip, following which his block tariff was increased and the article sprotected for a short while. He has since then created a whole series of sockpuppets;

• Ben10023 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• QPRlad (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• QPRlLAD (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Jackt123 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• JDT2k8 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Youf123 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• QPRsteve (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• QPRben (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

(Please note that the first is an old account, which appears to have been a long term alternative id of JackQPR) to revert the removal of one edit. User:Black Kite and I have between us blocked the various puppets, but JackQPR seems particularly tenacious - he is just creating and using socks without any attempt to hide his identity or intent. User:Tangerines and User:Jimbo online, two editors who have tried to maintain process at the article, have requested my help previously (here and here) to which I have responded here and here.

The above editors are suggesting that the article is again protected (I sprotected for 3 days so as not to overly inconvenience legit ip editors), that JackQPR is indef blocked, and that the drawerful of socks is stopped from further disrupting the article. I'm not convinced that the first two options (although I support the indef block as it does not appear the editor is interested in working to Wikipedia rules, etc.) are going to make much difference to this matter; The socks will be allowed to mature for the requisite days and then get used to make the same one edit, and JackQPR is careless to the effect to his account. I would welcome help and suggestions regarding future actions to protect the article. LessHeard vanU (talk) 20:21, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

I'd already semi-protected again before you posted here. I'd guess that the ways forward here are;

• semi-protect and revert
• Wait until JackQPR gets bored
• Fully protect the article
• Run a CU in the hope of finding a suitable rangeblock.

I'd be tempted to go for the latter in the first instance. BLACKKITE 20:28, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Hmmm... CU might find a static underlying ip - we could stop account creation? LessHeard vanU (talk) 20:31, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

• Actually, knowing the history of this, we should fully protect the article pending the outcome of the checkuser. This has been going on for a while, and we need to stop this. We should ALSO block all of the above accounts as suspected sockpuppets. Blocking them would not preclude the use of checkuser to issue a possible autoblock or rangeblock to the appropriate IPs as well... --Jayron32.talk.contribs 20:37, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

• All of the socks are already blocked indef, and I've just upped the main account to the same. BLACKKITE 20:45, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

This was also the IP user that he seemingly used -

• 82.45.213.208 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) As Jayron quite rightly says, this has been going on for a while, the user just seems to have gone into overdrive over the last few days. However, whilst he probably would end up getting bored doing all of this, he does seem quite determined and would probably try again if he can get back editing on the article. The article itself if it needs fully protecting whilst this is sorted it wouldn't be a problem anyway. Thanks for everyones help sorting it though.♦Tangerines♦·Talk 21:02, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

If I may ask a naive question: could contacting the ISP do any good? The Transhumanist 23:19, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

• 82.45.213.208 (talk · contribs) is a Virgin Media IP address, and will probably trace to North of England, as my Virgin Media IP does.

I'll see what I can do regarding this. --Solumeiras (talk) 12:51, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

• • I have put in for an IPcheck at Wikipedia:Requests for checkuser/IP check. Woody (talk) 13:01, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Static IP, 100% link spam over 2 years

82.225.218.187 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) Static IP, 100% link spam over 2 years. Not current, therefore AIV inappropriate. -- John (Daytona2 · Talk · Contribs) 22:36, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

WP:ANI must show mercy to this fellow editor. since his last offense was over 2 years ago, there is no reaosn why he shoudl be post-emptively blocked., wikipedia is not an inquistiion and in this case it seems like discussing the issue with this user would be a more productive and rewarding courseo f action than persecuting him for some alleged spam committed a long time ago. Smith Jones (talk) 22:38, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

80 minutes IS a long time..... One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 22:40, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

you must be mistaken. according to his contribs, his latest edit was in the 28th of November in 2005. that is hardly 80 minutes ago. Smith Jones (talk) 22:42, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

That diff proves you to be incorrect, so please stop cluttering up this board with irrelevance. One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 22:44, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

please avoid personal attacks. i am looking at his contribs page right now. look at this diff. It was made at the time that i andicate.d Smith Jones (talk) 22:45, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

If you look at his contribs page (Special:Contributions/82.225.218.187) you'll notice he has edited very recently. You're just looking at his first edit. Someguy1221 (talk) 22:49, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

well then in that case hse should be warned . i believe that he is acitng in good faith but needs to be educated as to the proper role of twikipedia in his local communit so that he knows what he is doing. Smith Jones (talk) 22:51, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

This user has had multiple spam warnings over almost two years, how many more do they need? What makes you think they're acting in good faith? Do you have ESP now, Smith Jones? Corvus cornix_talk 23:43, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Actually, I'd argue that if he's been doing the same sort of link spamming for 2 years (as your diff and Hackney's prove - despite the time spacing - they're identical!) then that's even more reason to consider that this is a single-purpose account per the initial report. Orderinchaos 23:44, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Posted warning to User talk:82.225.218.187 that next occurance may lead to a long term block. Jeepday (talk) 00:16, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

That's about as much use as a chocolate fireguard. As Corvus cornix & Orderinchaos suggested, more warnings are uneccessary and only act as evidence of the lack of effectivenes of the system. The user received a final warning on 28 February 2007; it had no appreciable effect on their behaviour. It appears to me as if admins do not appreciate the time and effort spent investigating, reverting and reporting such incidents. -- John (Daytona2 · Talk · Contribs) 14:22, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

This is my Second Account due to User:Amerique blocking me...

This is my Second Account due to User:Amerique blocking me because I Edit the Inland Empire (California article by simply just adding a picture of downtown Riverside and he accused me of a Sockpuppet he is crazy for University of California, Riverside as well I dont know If he's an Admi., but I need some help but I need help EastCoastland02 (talk) 23:09, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

no duplicate quetions Smith Jones (talk) 23:14, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

I got edit conficted in removing the other identical messages that the user posted here, anyway, I've indef blocked the user as evading blocks, you should have put an unblock request on your old user's talk or contact unblock-en-l@wikipedia.org . I'm leaving the request open in case somebody wants to comment on the original block. Snowolf ^{How can I help?} 23:16, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

For the information of anyone interested in reviewing this, prior discussions occurred here:

• Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Archive119#Silly_people

• Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/IncidentArchive347#Possible_ban

I'm not waiting for any new accounts of his to make a series of benign edits then initiate another set of disastrous page moves or other disruption. That's always been the pattern with this guy. Every request for checkuser I've made to Alison on any account of his turned out positive. I don't "own" any articles, but I do keep an eye on a few. Amerique^dialectics 23:42, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Rogue admin

Resolved

Seems we have another rogue admin supplying text of deleted articles, see [44] (look at the end). Also looks like the admin in question is offering to do this on an ongoing basis. Guy (Help!) 23:19, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Is this actually against policy? I certainly wouldn't yell rogue admin for just this, or perhaps I am missing something? Prodego ^talk 23:25, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Likewise, my first thought is that it shouldn't be a breach of GFDL merely because an article has been deleted from here; all that means is that the article didn't meet our standards but may be ok for use elsewhere. Unless I'm wrong, which isn't unusual. --Rodhullandemu (Talk) 23:30, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

I've provided deleted articles (not attack articles) for work before, I don't see a problem with it. Lots of admins do it, AFAIK. Keilana|^{Parlez ici} 23:32, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

I don't feel comfortable with this. What if he accidentally provided confidential information? And to MyWikiBiz, who was banned by Jimbo Wales, AND community-banned under another account? Okay, I may be a little paranoid here, but I still consider the issue valid. Nwwaew (Talk Page) (Contribs) (E-mail me) 23:34, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

if you fel so strongly about this situation, convene an ArbCom and see if you can get hte admin in question sanctioned. i personally felt that s overthe top but you have every rtight to do whatever you want to whoever you want on here, as per WP:BOLD. Smith Jones (talk) 23:40, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

(ec)I can't imagine ArbCom taking this one, even if they've got a quiet afternoon, which is moot. It's a straightforward interpretation of GFDL, and WP:BOLD is not carte blanche for anarchy. --Rodhullandemu (Talk) 23:43, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Personal opinion: All our articles are licensed under the GNU GFDL. Deleting them does not break the license agreement. Anyone can ask for a copy if he wants it, unless the information is not for public discussion (like private telephone numbers, etc). Therefore, I see "giving" deleted articles to others is in accordance to our licensing policy. -- ReyBrujo (talk) 23:42, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

It's just a case of "ZOMG!!!!! Banned users getting Seekrit Stuff! Call the cops!!!!!!!!!!!" *Dan T.* (talk) 23:51, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

• I've just restored that last uncorrupted version of this page. Sorry if contribs have been lost, I will check to see whether this is the case. --Rodhullandemu (Talk) 00:00, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

• Yes; some comments were removed from the section below. -Jéské ^{(Blah v^_^v)} 00:03, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

I was trying to restore those manually but got sidetracked for an explanation; damage limitation & repair sometimes takes time. --Rodhullandemu (Talk) 00:08, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

• Comment I agree I don't see any policy issue with this. Deleted articles are routinely still living in Google cache and routinely supplied to user-space on request with intent to correct. If an article has "personal information" then it should be oversighted in the first place and no mere-admin can view purged data. Wjhonson (talk) 00:00, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
• There's an entire category of admins who have agreed to provide copies of deleted articles. It is not against policy. Deletion doesn't mean that the material is damned for all eternity to the fires of hell; it means that the material didn't meet encyclopedic standards. It may be perfectly appropriate for another site. The only thing admins should refuse to provide is copyright violations and other material that clearly and obviously has the potential to cause legal trouble. *** Crotalus *** 01:51, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Yes... But what you all have to realize is that is has historically been a sensitive issue. Grandmasterka 16:34, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Yes, but they restored personal information, something which admins should never do. It is stated on the deleted copies category that any personal/libelous information will not be restored. I think this is a different case, where the articles concerned are non-notable people/groups have and the deleted text is not contentious. Woody (talk) 16:43, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Everyking didn't actually restore anything; he merely gave an indication that he might be willing to look over some particular deleted material and possibly provide a copy to the banned user requesting it. Whether he would have gone through with it, even after looking at the material and seeing that it contained (whatever the heck it contained that was objectionable; privacy violations, libel, or something else evil) is unknown, because he was rapidly desysopped before he could go any further. *Dan T.* (talk) 16:58, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

So the only affect of this thread is the subtle message "If you give deleted articles to people we do not like you will be called a rogue admin on AN/I." Seems to me that this should be archived. The articles he requested are in the same thread, so another admin can check those to see if anything was inadvertently revealed. Otherwise, this section (titled "Rogue Admin" !!) has no purpose, unless someone is trying to argue that deleted articles, having no privacy violations, should be off limits to regular users. daveh4h 18:55, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

More trouble

Rikara (talk · contribs) has been blocked again for incivility, this time for 31 hours, and he's being absolutely belligerent on his talk page. I think an indef-block or a cluemaul might be in order here; I'm currently talking with him on his talk page and he's being less-than-civil bordering on rabid again. -Jéské ^{(Blah v^_^v)} 23:44, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

dont worry jeske i have a lto of experience havndling deranged editors and i will go over ther e and try to reason with UserRikara. Smith Jones (talk) 00:05, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Maybe if you let things calm down for a while before you look at the talk page again? Jeepday (talk) 00:05, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

I tried that with a 24 hour block, but he came back the next day as belligerent as before, according to the contribs. I was offline when he was blocked this time and missed the edit-war. -Jéské ^{(Blah v^_^v)} 00:10, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

I'll go help. i am en expert dwith dealing with belligenrent users. Smith Jones (talk) 23:55, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

(edit Conflict)He's constantly playing, the "I'm Right, You're wrong", "I'm Innocent, Block them", And the "I'm annoyed by you so shut the **** up" cards. He didn't learn the first time, AND he Violated WP:3RR again, last time he got away with it because he was blocked, but I think we should actually add another 24 hours to his block for that so he doesn't get away with it again.
Better yet, why not block him for, maybe a week, untill the game is out and he can actually PROVE his theories? Dengarde ► Complaints 23:56, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Again, Dengarde, blocks are not punitive. -Jéské ^{(Blah v^_^v)} 00:06, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

I'm well aware. But we both know that he's going to just come back and do the exact same thing when he's unblocked again in 30 hours, I still say that at LEAST the 3RR violation be added this time. Dengarde ► Complaints 00:09, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

agreed. a block would be the worst possible solution in this answers. all that resnentment will just pile up and the atmospehre on this talkpage will just getm ore and more pooisonous. the only way a block owuld help is if it was for a week to give him a chance to calm down but i think that everyone here would rather correct User:Rikara's flaws rather than just dismising him out of hands. Smith Jones (talk) 00:09, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Agreed Blocking is not punitive, I suggest letting User:Smith Jones, address the user. If there is a violation in an article, block per standing policy. And don't respond on his talk page until the block has expired. Jeepday (talk) 00:23, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

I have already blocked him for this comment, and his consistent background of disruption (adding unsourced information, not listening to reasons, etc). Shortly after I had to block user 67.171.14.195 (talk · contribs · WHOIS) who went on disrupting the article, I guess it was him again. I think that will give him a time to reconsider his actions. I have also left a message in the talk page of the article saying that I would just protect the article until the game is released. Interestingly, people want to have the article fully protected and edit through requests. -- ReyBrujo (talk) 00:29, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for saving User:Smith Jones the awesome responsibility of negotiating. --Rodhullandemu (Talk) 00:35, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Rodhullandemu, the block by ReyBrujo was made before this came up here, it was not in response to anything that was said here. I think you're assuming that he blocked after Jeepday's comments, and that's not the case. Corvus cornix_talk 00:44, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Although I blocked him for his unnecessary aggressive comment, feel free to unblock him now that the articles are fully protected. Next time it would have been a good idea to post a comment in the article talk page to let everyone know about this discussion. -- ReyBrujo (talk) 00:49, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

• Per request of the community I have Protected this article until February 14 Diff Jeepday (talk) 00:42, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Resolved

That's all well and good, except that the disruption is mainly on a different article - Super Smash Bros. (series). -Jéské ^{(Blah v^_^v)} 00:59, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Eh? -- ReyBrujo (talk) 01:01, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Did not see that, edit-conflicted when I was removing it. In any case, the main place he's being disruptive is the talk page of the aforementioned series article. -Jéské ^{(Blah v^_^v)} 01:02, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Frankly, I don't mind if people become heated in a talk page. But when the article is the battlefield, it becomes serious. My only connection with the article is that I am going to buy the game once it is released, but from what I saw in these last days, Rikara has some problems talking with others (or, at least, making himself clear). As I just told him in his talk page, his last edit was reverted by three different users. If that doesn't tell him something, he needs to be temporarily stopped to think about it. -- ReyBrujo (talk) 01:19, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

He hasn't been so much heated as he has boiled over. -Jéské ^{(Blah v^_^v)} —Preceding comment was added at 01:41, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

This is way far to go for someone who insists that a forum post is a reliable source. JuJube (talk) 11:50, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Need clarification of WP:SYN

The current chapter in the continuing saga of editing Bircham International University involves discussion of whether and when the juxtaposition of two facts, without stating any conclusion based on those facts, violates WP:SYN by implying a conclusion. Expert guidance would be helpful at Talk:Bircham International University#Original synthesis in the lead. --Orlady (talk) 23:47, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

• It’s right there in black and white–“Best practice is to write Wikipedia articles by taking claims made by different reliable sources about a subject and putting those claims in our own words on an article page, with each claim attributable to a source that makes that claim explicitly.”—Random832 23:58, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
• The trouble is that what's happening there isn't taking "claims made by different reliable sources about a subject", but rather about different subjects: Bircham International University and degree mills. Frankly, it looks like Bircham probably is a degree mill. But that juxtaposition of two statements to draw the reader to a conclusion that Wikipedia prohibits actually being stated is very weaselly. Sarcasticidealist (talk) 00:32, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Problem user

Marcopolis (talk · contribs) seems uncommunicative and has gone from adding oversized images to articles, to completely replacing wikiformatting in articles with html formatting. I've asked him to use edit summary, made suggestions to him, and explained reverts in edit summaries, but he seems to plow forward undaunted. His edit here [45], leads me to believe his english is not fluent which could be part of the problem, but my french certainly isn't up to trying to converse with him in French. But these are unnecessary [46], [47], [48]. As well we had a repeated copyvio issue with him. He's contributing some great photos which might be useful. However I actually question his assertion that he's the copyright holder on this image (and others like it) Image:Seoulines.JPG. I'd rather not see him blocked, but I'm at a loss on how to handle him. I mentioned this on village pump and it was recommended I post this here.--Crossmr (talk) 01:43, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Is there a policy favoring wiki formatting over HTML? I would note than many times I've found certain wikiformats like tables to be very confusing and in some cases had to resort to HTML fixes because the wikifix is not apparent. As to the Seoul subway image, I agree it seems like a likely copyright violation. Assuming good faith that he merely doesn't understand the various issues the image should be deleted. What is the regular copyvio issue other than that image? The user seems to be interested in being productive, noting his maps uploaded which generally help the project.Wjhonson (talk) 02:38, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Guide_to_layout, Wikipedia:MOS#Section_headings he just had a map deleted because it was a copyvio. Then he uploaded it again and tried to insert it in to the article again. While continuing to claim he had the copyright to it. [49]. [50] which he put back in through this series of edits [51]. Since he's had images deleted for copyvio, he has a message on his talk page about it, yet ignored it to repeat the upload, and then further uploaded images he obviously doesn't have the copyright on, I can't imagine how we're supposed to continue to assume good faith when the user also refuses to respond to any kind of communication. He's also uploading the same copyvio image multiple times Image:Linestyle.jpg Image:Seoulines.JPG, Image:Seoulines.jpg, as well as Image:Smrtclines.jpg, Image:Onlysmtro.jpg, [52], [53], [54], [55], [56], [57], [58], [59]--Crossmr (talk) 03:14, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

We should continue to assume good faith. I don't see a lot of cross-talk on his Talk page about the situation. I do see that he's uploaded one image several times that appears to likely be a copyvio. But I don't see an explanation to him of how to address the problem like "You can upload a photograph you've taken *of* the sign, but you can't upload an image that you've copied from someone else..." or whatever. Some sort of suggestion to him, of how to get the essential picture, without violating copyright. That is, trying to steer users to productive uses by appropriate suggestion.Wjhonson (talk) 03:25, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Yes, but we don't assume it blindly, nor is criticizing an editor an automatic assumption of bad faith. I've made a request that he use edit summaries and he's failed to do that. An editor asked him a question in December and I found no evidence that he answered it. I posted a couple of comments on his edits on the article talk page, both of which went unanswered, and I've made comments in my edit summaries point him to guidelines and explaining why I'm doing things. He's repeatedly undoing them without communication. In addition to that he's re-uploaded material that was deleted, for which there was an explanation provided on his talk page and he's ignored that. I'm not saying the communication problem is intentional, his nationality is french, he appears to be living in korea right now (even though his user page indicates attending school in montreal). He may simply not know enough english to communicate here. Not his fault, but if we can't talk to him, and he won't respond or learn from his mistakes on his own (which deleted images, with explanations should tell you) perhaps he's better suited to the french wikipedia where people can communicate with him, unless someone here who speaks enough french wants to try and talk to him.--Crossmr (talk) 03:43, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

And if you look at his image upload history, he already seems to have pictures of most of those copyvio images.--Crossmr (talk) 03:43, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Attention on Homeopathy and Talk:Homeopathy

I put a 24 hr protection on the Homeopathy article after an edit war broke out reverting / readding a "pseudoscience infobox" on the article earlier today. I was hoping that the short protect and a request to discuss on talk would be enough, but the discussion on the talk page is not really calming down much so far. A couple of the participants came to my user talk and recommended that I extend the protection for much longer, which I'll do if I have to but I'd prefer not to.

I would like to request other uninvolved admins to lend the article and its talk page a bit of attention and your opinions. If need be, I will just protect for longer, but more admins may help defuse the situation more effectively. Thanks. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 01:54, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Block the revert war participants. That page has been protected for a month already. SchmuckyTheCat (talk)

User:Nku pyrodragon

The user Nku pyrodragon has placed a {{helpme}} tag on his/her talk page requesting alternate administrator attention. I am cross posting here on behalf of this user. Please see the users comments on his/her talk page. Thanks. --omtay38 03:19, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Repeat vandal and harasser

User Jimconch has repeatedly reverted cited materal from such pages as 2003 Fiesta Bowl amd Miami Hurricanes football. Along with this, comes repeated harrassment of other editors which has created a heated debate. "Some dammed..."[60]. "Ohio State fans are..." [61]. Said user has also clearly theatened to use future vandalism, "It would save me..."[62]. Fellow users have stated that they would welcome his imput as long as it was cited Jimconch has not done that. (see first post on Jimconch's talk page) [63]. Bcspro (talk) 03:51, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Admin help requested re Troubles ArbCom

Resolved

 – User at issue blocked 48h for attacks and incivility. Sandstein (talk) 11:47, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Non-involved admin attention requested at Wikipedia_talk:Requests_for_arbitration/The_Troubles/Enforcement_requests#User:Vintagekits. Admins so inclined are also asked to watchlist Wikipedia_talk:Requests_for_arbitration/The_Troubles/Enforcement_requests to help with follow-up to this ArbCom case. Thanks. Tyrenius (talk) 04:12, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Copyrighted material help

Would somebody take a look at BeRecruited.com and it's talk page and help with this? I've chosen not to get too acquainted with copyright issues; I just copy/pasted info from the "Possible Copyright Infringement" box on the article page. Pairadox (talk) 05:38, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Socialized medicine / User:Freedomwarrior (again)

User previously warned (only a few days ago) about 3RR, has returned to the same pattern. User history and talk page history have numerous warnings on editwarring primarily on only a few subjects.--Gregalton (talk) 06:06, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

User:KellyAna

This issue is regarding KellyAna. I’m requesting some admins to look into this issue, as I’m getting tired of dealing with her. KellyAna and I have a very bad history, see here[64],[65],[66]. A brief on the issue: Our dispute on the Las Vegas TV page ended a couple of days ago, when I decided to leave the site, to work on other sites that had well knowledge editors. Everyone dealing with the Las Vegas dispute stop arguing and moved on, besides KellyAna. She has continued to harass myself and now my relatives. KellyAna has now contacted another admin. Gogo Dodo because of this issue, as she has with several other admins, most of which discarded it because she started the issue. You can check several talk pages where other admins have been disgusted with KellyAna comments and games she plays. Now, KellyAna has been off Wiki, because she claims she was in Daytona. However, the minute she returns she attacks my brother’s talk page. She claims she was trying to help but what she says on her talk page [67] and Blackwatch21’s [68] is nothing but threats and intimation to a new user. One statement from her says, “I can certainly "intrude" in ways that would get you in trouble”. I wouldn’t call that helping. If you look at their history (KellyAna/Irishlass), I counted 6 to 7 new users that they threaten, warn, double team, or intimate. Now I’m pretty sure Wikipedia doesn’t want users acting that way to new users joining the site. That’s very unprofessional coming from a professional person KellyAna claims to be. Now that’s the only reason we (KellyAna and myself) came back into contact, is because I saw her mean, unnecessary comments on Blackwatch21’s talk page. As for Blackwatch21, YES that is my younger brother joining Wikipedia. Now KellyAna can call it what she wants, I really don’t care. I’m sure ¾ of Wiki users have relatives that have Wikipedia accounts. As for the comment I sent to KellyAna, which I’m sure she will mention, was nothing more than me pleading not to make this an issue again but with the type of person she is, she calls it harassment. I just wish that someone would block her, as I’m getting tired of dealing with this. Everyone from the BIG Las Vegas dispute has stopped arguing except for KellyAna. Again I apologize for this issue. I’m trying to make this issue go away, but that’s hard when you’re dealing with troublemakers. If anyone has some advice or actions they could take, that would help a lot. I’m willing to answer any questions or add more info if needed. Like I said, you can read several talk pages that I referenced that shows the history between KellyAna and I. Thanks DJS --DJS24 (talk) 06:30, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

I just want to include that, all I'm asking is for someone to tell her to leave me alone. Gogo Dodo has asked us to go our separate ways, that's what I want and again another admin has come to the conclusion to drop the issue. However, normally this is when KellyAna goes off to another admin and brings up the issue all over again. See here [69] for Gogo Dodo's comments on the issue. I aggree with his/her conclusion but KellyAna normally doesn't listen. --DJS24 (talk) 07:25, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Copied from User talk:Gogo Dodo Gogo Dodo, this has absolutly NOTHING to do with the Las Vegas article, as you can clearly see I have not touched the article since last weekend and have no desre but DJS24 claims I "had to get the last word" when it is clear I moved on last weekend. He then claims I "harassed" his relatives when it was impossible for me to know that there was any relation. I warned someone to remove logos and he jumped on my page. I did not contact him, I still haven't. I came to a neutral third party for advice and he started things up AGAIN. There is an obvious issue here and I'm not the one with it. He makes several false claims which I could point out here but won't. I just wanted your advice as to what to do, but he had to make it a big deal obviously following me around AGAIN. I have been calm and have ignored him, for the most part. Truly, how was I to know they were related? Truly, why was it wrong to tell someone to remove illegal logos on their page? I replied to Blackwatch only after he came to my page followed by DJS24. You'll see, if you truly look into the situation, I'm by and far not the instigator in any of this. I'm copying most of this to the reported incident and will show history that DJS24 is clearly instigating the problems ever since the creation of the sock last weekend. That's my reply this morning to the falsehoods in all of this. I dropped the whole Las Vegas issue and have not even been on DJS24's page but he did come to mine. I had gone to a page to ask for help and clarification on a scab writer for soaps, where I saw a request for "anyone who can help" from another user. I went to that person's page and saw illegal uploads of copyrighted team logos and gently warned/advised the person they should remove them. He replied and told me to stay out of it. I simply explained, on my page, that I was only trying to help him when I could have simply reported the issue, which I could have. He then claims I followed him, when I was clearly lead there by another page User talk:IrishLass0128. The warning was nothing more than to remove illegal logos, which he actually apparently uploaded twice from what I can see and after he was warned by an admin.

The crux of all this is last weekend, DJS24 created a sock who claimed to be a former admin whose account was hacked and jumped in and backed his argument. I caught them and one account was blocked [70] and DJS24 was warned [71]. Yesterday I did ask for advice from an admin rather than creating a report. I actually didn't know Gogo Dodo was an admin when I went to his page, just saw his warning and had worked with him on some Survivor pages. A few minutes after I requested help from Gogo Dodo, and when I could have possibly had no knowledge of any relation, DJS came to my page. I did not go to his as he claims. I have not gone to his page since well before he received the sock warnings. He's the one making this an issue, I've not edited any page with him on it nor have I gone to his page or that of CarsGm5, his blocked sock. I have been very open in this, since last weekend when I reported CarsGm5. DJS24, however, has not been as forthcoming and has been the instigator since last weekend even clouding the true issue on Gogo Dodo's page by bringing up the dead Las Vegas issue, making personal attacks, false claims, and repeatedly implying I'm a troublemaker by simply warning someone about illegal uploads. I assumed good faith with that simple warning, that's not being a troublemaker, that's trying to help a new person not get in trouble. KellyAna (talk) 15:58, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

First of all, you need to drop the words “personal attack", your not going to get far in life if you think everything is a personal attack. Everything I say, you accuse me of a personal attack. I would also advise you, for your benefit to drop the sock claim, that issue goes very deep, to where you no nothing about. Also, the person that blocked CarsGm5, seems to have a possible relation w/ KellyAna [72]. As I've shown above, the comments from KellyAna to Blackwatch21 were comments to scare, threat, and intimate a new user. Far from helping one. After I saw the comments, as it is my brother's page, sent some comments to Blackwatch21's page to advise him not to get involved in KellyAna. As I know her history and past, and I didn't want her to be the first editor he came into contact with because of this issue right here. KellyAna calls that a personal attack, but I could say HI to her and she would call that a personal attack. It is true, she hasn't sent me anything, instead she's sneaking around talk bad about me to admins. That’s when I sent her a message ASKING to stop this. She calls that harassment (No surprise) and now reports it as me being an instigator. I don't know how I can be an instigator when I'm asking her to stop the issue. This issue has NOTHING to do with the Las Vegas page, as I left that dispute days before KellyAna did. This issue is dealing with a user that won't leave me alone and gets off on scaring new users. Also, let me point out, she seems not to care about,Gogo Dodo the admin who came to a conclusion to drop this issue. She just continues to make this a bigger issue.--DJS24 (talk) 16:54, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

You really shouldn't be the one telling me to drop anything as the evidence is in my favor that you have followed me around when I asked for advice from another editor, lied about you dropping the Las Vegas issue before me [73] as history shows you clearly have three talk edits after me and Blackwatch even has two and revision history shows I have not touched the infobox. I've not dropped the sock issue because that is the heart of this and I've provided links that provide links to your behavior. In this edit [74] you clear disparage my name and make false claims. IrishLass0128 was around all day Thursday and part of Friday, based on edit history, and I didn't get back until last night. And if they are brothers, why communicate who I am and disparage my name here rather than one on one at home? I also believe the claim that I "get off on scaring new users" is a personal attack.

As to the claims of me knowing the admin that blocked CarsGm5, I have no clue what that's about short of grasping for straws. The user that blocked Cars User:FCYTravis is one I've never encountered and lives in Fairbanks Alaska. I live over 5,000 miles from Fairbanks. How we can have a personal relationship or even be accused there of is beyond me. He claims that I should drop this but I'm not the one that brought this issue here or told people it was here. When someone insist on repeatedly making false claims after being told to drop it, one should be allowed to defend herself. KellyAna (talk) 17:38, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Civility issue: User:Perspicacite at AfD

Over at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Corruption in Angola, Perspicacite/Jose João has been acting in an incredibly uncivil manner. I happen to agree with him regarding keeping the article, but I don't agree that it's ok to call placing a prod tag vandalism, accusing the AfD nominator of acting in bad faith, suggest that a 24-hour block for the AfD nomination "would be lenient", lashing out against other editors who question him, or to delete comment objecting to his bad behavior as "harassment".

I had no clue that I was wandering into such a tarpit when I commented on this AfD. Argyriou (talk) 06:50, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Nor did I when I nominated the article. Perspicacite/Jose João has repeatedly refused to comment on the merits of why the article should stay, and has instead harrased anyone who opposes him. - Realkyhick (Talk to me) 08:19, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

"Anyone who opposes him" consists of you and an editor I have not gotten along with for months. Jose João (talk) 16:12, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Your failure to be able to work civilly with another editor, to the point where you've been sniping at her and labeling her edits as harassment, ought to earn you a good long block for incivility. Argyriou (talk) 19:54, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Unfortunately, User Perspicacite (who now signs as "Jose João") has drawn the lesson from previous reports where no action followed, that he is exempted from our usual standards. Even after he was aware of this report, he has effectively thumbed his nose at community standards by repeating the very same behaviour complained of on exactly the same Afd.

When he can overcome his collegiality issues and co-operate with his fellow editors, Perspicacite is a prolific and productive editor that makes useful contributions to our Encyclopedia, so I would not support a block for these proximate incidents. However, he does need to be very firmly warned indeed that removing other editor's comments from talk pages (especially article and project discussion pages) is completely unacceptable behaviour and will be followed instantly by a block in future. He needs to learn that WP:3RR is not the only rule that will be enforced. Alice^✉ 20:20, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

User:Radiohumor

Someone might want to keep an eye on Radiohumor (talk · contribs · global contribs · logs · block log) as recent contributions have been quite uncivil, and not exactly constructive. nat.utoronto 07:02, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

IP sockpuppets?

User talk:204.193.129.239 was just blocked for vandalism at Reddit. Not long after, User talk:199.79.168.163 came along with the same vandalism at the same article. Check the contribs history for the first IP and the contribs history for the second IP and you'll see they have pretty much been editing the same articles for the last few months. Both IPs come from Purchase College in New York. Not sure what needs to be done here but it's at least brought to someone's attention. - ✰ALLSTAR✰ ^echo 08:57, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

WP:STALK

Recently I was blocked for the following reason: "stalking Arrow740 on Buddhism articles". I had only edited one Buddhism article that Arrow740 edited (hence there is no plural "articles"). There is no repeated occurrence of me showing up on Buddhism related articles that Arrow740 has edited. I was also never warned by Blnguyen (or Arrow).

I grant that I made one wrong edit (twice with a 42 hour interval between reverts, thus no edit-warring), but did that justify a 72-hour block?

This concerns me because Arrow740, who I was supposed to have stalked, has been following me. Take a look at Arrow740's edit here. He gives no explanation for reverting me, either on talk or in his edit summary. In reverting me, he also, amongst other things, adds completely unsourced info to the article (somewhat like the edit I made for which I was blocked for 72 hours). Arrow740 had never edited this article before, and his first edit was a revert of my edit.

Arrow740, also jumped in, apparently from nowhere into Islamic military jurisprudence. He came in and reverted me, without any explanation on talk. Arrow740 hadn't edited this article in 2006.

Another editor (User:Aminz) has brought forward a similar complaint about Arrow740's editing. In this edit Arrow740 reverts Aminz's edit. Arrow740 had never edited the article before, and his first edit is a revert.

If a one-time violation of WP:STALK warrants a 72-hour block, why am only I punished and not Arrow740?Bless sins (talk) 10:02, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

It's not merely that you were looking my edits, it's also the fact that you completely ignored my justifications for my edits on an article about a subject you know nothing about three times: [75], [76], [77]. I primarily edit Islam-related articles, and the justifications for my edits to those articles have been posted elsewhere. Aminz agrees with Bless sins on everything, and this is the third place BS has shopped his case, it should be noted. Regarding Islamic military jurisprudence, in my edit summary I was referring to this talk page post [78], which you had not answered when I made my edit [79]. At Violence in Jammu and Kashmir, my motivations were clear and you well know it. For the uninvolved, here is the explanation: I call ethnic cleansing and coordinated campaigns of rape "terrorism" so I changed the wording back. For the other part of the edit, I restored the material in question [80] then tagged the unsourced sentences [81] so that they could be verified. It is common practice to do this if an editor believes that material can be verified, as Bless sins' frequent ally itaqallah has recently done: [82]. Arrow740 (talk) 10:08, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Let's get the unsourced part clear. You made unsourced allegations of murder and rape, while following me, and put fact tags on that.

Jimbo Wales is clear on such behavior, (from WP:V):

"I can NOT emphasize this enough. There seems to be a terrible bias among some editors that some sort of random speculative 'I heard it somewhere' pseudo information is to be tagged with a 'needs a cite' tag. Wrong. It should be removed, aggressively, unless it can be sourced. This is true of all information, but it is particularly true of negative information about living persons."

Bless sins (talk) 10:12, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

My edits were made in good faith, and yours weren't. They were repeated, disruptive, and uncharacteristic. That's the difference. Arrow740 (talk) 10:17, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Yes, Blnguyen's block was certainly too long (72 hours) and one-sided (Arrow himself stalks). Another admin too requested him to shorten the length of the block (which doesn't appear he shortened it). I posted a series of post on the page [83] regarding Arrow's own stalking. Arrow justified his stalking and blind revert of me in a psychology article that he had no contribution at all by saying:"There's nothing wrong with checking contributions and looking at one diff". Later he tried to further justify it by saying "I never denied that that article wasn't on my watchlist". Bless sins has other examples of Arrow's stalking.

Some statistics on Blnguyen's blocks:

Blnguyen has unblocked Arrow740 previously when he's been blocked by another administrator.

See [84], an interesting pattern (all of the five Blnguyen's blocks in a row are Muslim editors not sharing Arrow's POV). Disagreements with the length of his blocks and requesting to reduce them (which he didn't) from another admins ((e.g. User:Tom harrison) can be observed there too.

Arrow reports another user for WP:3RR and Blnguyen blocks the user. Another admin who came to take care of the reports mentions that this single request has been already addressed and the user has been already blocked in the 3RR report [85]

And recently Blnguyen blocks someone arguing that he stalks Arrow. Arrow claims that he has not contacted Blnguyen off-wiki. --Be happy!! (talk) 10:33, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Unfortunately, Aminz is being dishonest. He posted this same attack regarding the psychology article at Blnguyen's page, and I told him there that he should had posted the whole story [86]. He didn't. What I said in response to his attack on me was the following: "I saw you calling polytheistic beliefs "naive" with no edit summary and got a little suspicious." And that's true. I didn't have that article on my watchlist and I didn't say I did. Correcting an attack on opposing religious beliefs (made without an edit summary) is not stalking. The link Aminz posted is from months ago, and is part of a highly misleading attack originally posted by a sock of the banned editor User:His excellency (see User:Lovegroup): [87]. Blnguyen's unblock of me was when I had 3 reverts, and had been combating a sock puppet of the same banned editor. Tariqabjotu, the blocking admin, admitted that I shouldn't have been blocked long after the fact. He also admits he made a mistake (at least it appears that way, he may have changed his mind an hour later): [88]. Blnguyen's block of these Muslim editors were all in cases of 4 reverts in 24 hours, and all this was settled long ago. Aminz is making uncivil, misleading, personal attacks with this Arrow740 (talk) 10:50, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Given what I have just posted, I believe that Aminz has, in dredging up the past shorn of its context, made a false and personal attack on Blnguyen that deserves a block. Arrow740 (talk) 11:04, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Yes, please read the whole story at Blnguyen's page. I didn't call polytheistic beliefs "naive" and this tells more about your revert.

And common, the statistics of Blnguyen's blocks is something everyone can find. It is indeed interesting an admin only blocks editors coming from a certain background and have a different POV as yours.--Be happy!! (talk) 10:58, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Here's the diff I reverted [89]. Others can judge for themselves. You said, "It is indeed interesting an admin only blocks editors coming from a certain background and have a different POV as yours." Aminz, you don't know anything about who he blocks other than the list made by a banned editor. Please stop proxying for him. Arrow740 (talk) 11:08, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Aminz, it's time to apologize. Arrow740 (talk) 11:05, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

That Blnguyen's blocks have been long in several cases is not something that I take back. The statistics shows that there is a correlation between his blocks and you; not meaning that the blocks are always wrong but at least that he comes in when the matter is related to you. --Be happy!! (talk) 11:11, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

You have him unblocking me in a case Tariqabjotu made a mistake, and blocking BS for disruption and stalking on an article Blnguyen as a member of Wikiproject Buddhism likely has on his watchlist. Cut it out, Aminz. Arrow740 (talk) 11:14, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

My position: There is a policy in wikipedia that admins should not block those with whom they have content dispute. Does that mean that the admins are biased? no. as a matter of fact, there are many admins around and can address the situation. Similarly I would say the above evidences show that Blnguyen should rescue himself from blocking editors that are in content dispute with Arrow. There are many admins that can address the disputes.--Be happy!! (talk) 11:29, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

All you've brought here is an attempt to smear, Aminz. There is evidence of nothing. Arrow740 (talk) 11:34, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Harassment by D&D vandal now on ArbCom pages

The D&D vandal who has been reverting many edits of mine and others has now moved to hitting an ArbCom page, specifically:

• Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Episodes and characters 2/Workshop diff

This is a revert of a tidying edit I made (formatting, whitespace issues). This has to stop. Please either semi these pages or watch them closely. See also: Wikipedia:Requests for checkuser/Case/Qwerty of Man. Cheers, Jack Merridew 10:19, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

nb: Actually, it is a revert of three edits of mine; it also removed a comment I posted to the page. --Jack Merridew 10:51, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

• Also vandalizing Wikipedia:Requests for page protection. --Jack Merridew 11:45, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Suspected Sockpuppets

I have put the tags up on there user pages that I think they are sockpuppets refering them to Alpesh Vadher history page where the names are extremely similar and the actions are the same. Thankyou, --Thevardonrushes (talk) 10:58, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Recommending editor for oversight

Thebluesharpdude is a young and enthusiastic editor who doesn't quite seem to "get" many of Wikipedia's guidelines and rules. He's created numerous non-notable articles (see his articles list), even after I tried explaining Notability to him (diff). He's uploaded numerous images, claiming to own the copyright when it's obviously not true (partial list). I convinced him to get Wiki-adopted, but his adopter doesn't seem to be mentoring him, aside from giving him Twinkle and designing a user page for him. I've been trying to keep an eye on his edits and have offered advice and tips but it hasn't seemed to help much. The last time I headed down this road, I ended up with Tweety21; I'm really not interested in a sequel so I'm reporting this here in the hopes that someone can offer some close attention. As I said, he's young and enthusiastic and I think he could definitely be an asset to the Project given the right amount of guidance. Precious Roy (talk) 12:08, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

I can keep an eye on him. I'll watchlist his talk page and keep an eye on his contribs.--Phoenix-wiki 15:52, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Page hijacking by Admin User:Elonka

Resolved

 – 2 week full protection

This is “an open informal complaint over the behaviour of an admin”, which I gather is to be posted here. User:Elonka is currently in the process of “hijacking” the page Franco-Mongol alliance. Although no consensus whatsoever exists for her actions (Talk:Franco-Mongol alliance#False claim of consensus), she has deleted about 130k of highly referenced content in order to promote her own point of view version. The main version of the article, which has been developed by numerous editors over 6 months, is now being systematically replaced by a short pov version, deleting about 300 academic references.
She does have the support of a few editors, but overall, she has not managed to obtain a consensus in favour of her replacement of the original article, and she has even resorted to a false claim of consensus to try to have her way (Talk:Franco-Mongol alliance#False claim of consensus). This is highly disruptive, and a flaunting of Wikipedia’s most basic rules.
I am asking that Wikipedia’s rules be respected, i.e. if there is no censensus for a major replacement of an existing article, the status quo should prevail, and that Elonka be reprimended for a disruptive behaviour unworthy of an Administrator. Regards. PHG (talk) 14:43, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Holy bejesus that's a lot of poorly formatted references. It appears from first glance that she didn't remove references, but notes pointing to individual parts of those references. I'l let her know about this discussion. Grandmasterka 14:54, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

If you are really unhappy about this, you may wish to file a Request for Comment on the admin to see what the community think. D.M.N. (talk) 14:55, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

(ecx2) She is not abusing the admin tools, although admins are expected to work towards consensus. This is the diff apparently, but it is virtually all red and makes my head explode. I think we can fully protect the article and let everyone discuss until getting consensus. -- ReyBrujo (talk) 14:57, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

(edit conflicted 3x) First of all, Elonka didn't use any administrative power on the article as far as I can see, so her being an admin makes no difference. Two, there is no hijacking. Three, this is a content dispute, and from the looks of Talk:Franco-Mongol_alliance#False_claim_of_consensus, it doesn't look like you have many supporters of these kinds of accusations and you also seem to be the one using other editors statements out of context to advance your point of view on the article. I suggest if you actually want to make a formal complaint about someone's behavior you go through Wikipedia:Requests for comment rather than make absurd comments of hijackings. — Save_Us † 15:03, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

• Unless there is an abuse of admin powers this is a content dispute., Try mediation or an article RFC to promote wider input from the community. Spartaz ^Humbug! 15:13, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

I have filed a request for arbitration over this dispute. Jehochman ^Talk 15:19, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Protected 2 weeks. No admin tools were used by Elonka. Arbitration is not needed yet as this is a content dispute. — Rlevse • Talk • 15:25, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Check my request. I think you will see that arbitration is needed. Jehochman ^Talk 15:30, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

I respect your opinion but would like the parties to try to work this out one more time. — Rlevse • Talk • 15:35, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Likewise! I've been watching this dispute for months. It has descended into bad blood and accusations. One more try will not be successful. Rather than waiting for more damage to be done, I have requested a structured environment so the parties can work out their differences. Jehochman ^Talk 15:56, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

We'll see what the arbs do. And unless one of the parties is an admin and uses their bit, they have 2 weeks to work it out ;-) — Rlevse • Talk • 16:19, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

• This post is complete and utter bull. To put this a bit more in perspective, PHG is edit warring with 6 other editors in an attempt to keep his preferred version of the article. Absent his interference (especially during his recent 24 hour block over this same disruption), these other editors have been resolving the issues via the talk page -- again, these other 6 editors are not edit warring with each other. The protection is actually completely unnecessary since we've only got one editor trying to own the article (he's been reverted by four of the six other editors over the past 5 days). PHG's insistence that Elonka is the one at fault here completely ignores the fact that not another soul agrees with what he's doing -- Elonka has not edit warred with him, not used her admin bit and has been active in productive discussions on the talk page. Thanks for requesting the arbitration Jehochman. :) Shell ^babelfish 19:30, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

User is uploading copyrighted images

Resolved

 – 48 hour block

...with fake rationales to copyrighted images, see Image:20688_0002.jpg and Image:Heathl.jpg. After warning this user, I got this little response. miranda 15:34, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

His userpage is full of warnings. I think a block is in order. D.M.N. (talk) 15:36, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Blocked 48 hours. — Rlevse • Talk • 15:38, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

User:Styrofoam1994

Resolved

 – warned

This user has been repeatedly harassing blocked user Nku pyrodragon on the user's talk page. To the point where Nku placed a {{help me}} tag on the talk page requesting for administrator intervention (see post above). Nku may or may not be a sockpuppet, that is beside the point. Styrofoam seems to think that Nku is his "friend" Brandon. Styrofoam has made a specific threat of "spreading the articles" if Nku "doesn't say he's sorry." I originally took this to WP:AIV as a simple case of personal attacks but it was suggested that more input was needed. (So here we are!) --omtay38 17:15, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Warned. Interesting there was just an SSP case involving these two. — Rlevse • Talk • 18:02, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Spam in Girona

In the article Girona an anonymous adds some external links. I think they don't satisfy the requisites of WP:EL as I stated here, I notified the user, and after a long time waiting I received no answer. Then, the links were removed and again the same ip adds them. I think it is too early to add this links in the spam list, but I would apreciate some admin intervention (perhaps the links are apropiate? semi-protect the page? remove the links and notify (again) the user?...). Thanks! --Xtv - (my talk) - (que dius que què?) 17:23, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Maybe the links could get blacklisted if they are spam? D.M.N. (talk) 17:24, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

As I said, I think it's a bit too early to blacklist. I think better first look if you find that these links are not appropiate and in this case advise the ip. If he continues, I'll go to meta (I've seen (s)he also added the links in Spanish wikpedia).--Xtv - (my talk) - (que dius que què?) 17:52, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Looks like IrishGuy is on top of things as well. In the future, another really good place to report this kind of thing, and get advice and assistance on possible blacklisting, is WT:WPSPAM. — Satori Son 19:20, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

User:Kumqat1406

This users edits seem primarily to nominating articles for deletion, see the contributions. I'm surprised to see that a "new" users first edit would be nomination an article for deletion. D.M.N. (talk) 19:16, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Although the AfD nomination of Future of air transport in the United Kingdom is somewhat questionable, it does not appear that this account is being used for disruption. And having an alternative account is not, in and off itself, prohibited. — Satori Son 19:27, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

On that note, I've just noticed his userpage which contains a wierd message on it. And he's just nominated another article for deletion, again an article which seems notable. D.M.N. (talk) 19:56, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Posting by Jaymes2

Moved from WP:AN. — Satori Son

User:Jaymes2 (contribs) (talk) has been posting a long speculative piece about the relationship between meteors hitting the earth, Mass-energy equivalence and global warming on Talk:Global warming and other global-warming related pages. The user has been warned several times on the user's talk page, responded to my warning with a post of the same information to my talk page, and continues to re-post the same information (plus impolite comments directed at people who have deleted the speculation) on the global warming talk page. The user has made some edits unrelated to this theory, but it appears that they've all been reverted as unconstructive. I think that this user needs to be blocked, as several attempts at warning the user and introducing them to the purpose of Wikipedia have not affected the user's contributions. - Enuja (talk) 19:40, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

To be fair, the user has not edited since their final warning about inappropriate use of the talk page (warnings left at 17:29 (UTC) and 19:00 (UTC) on 26 Jan 2008, last edited said talk page on 14:06 (UTC) 26 Jan 2008). It would be reasonable, before any action is taken, to see if he heeds the warning or not. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 20:10, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Ethnic slurs by User:Wikibakel

Unacceptalbe incivility, insults, and ethnic slurs by this user [[90]], [[91]], [[92]]. The remainder of his postings consist of trolling. Users have tried to reason with this guy, but to no avail it seems. --Tsourkpk (talk) 20:18, 26 January 2008 (UTC)