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June 22

Wanted: Sword identification

I'm looking for information on a sword I've seen in a couple of fictional contexts. It's got a blade about three feet long, but instead of tapering to a point, the tip of the blade is a crescent about 50% wider than the body of the blade. I've seen it as the Greatsword in the video game Fable, and as a couple of the swords in the Nausicaä of the Valley of the Wind manga. Is this an actual sword type, or are these drawing from a common fictional inspiration? --67.185.172.158 (talk) 01:27, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

There are three here[1], more here.[2] It's called a cutlass or scimitar, even a form of katana – more recognisable as a pirate sword, but when I look at the articles, it's more of a theatrical or artist's impression by comparison. Julia Rossi (talk) 09:24, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

I don't think that's correct. I'm not familiar with the Nausicaä blade, but the Greatsword in Fable is not a cutlass. Cutlasses and scimitars do indeed get wider toward the tip, but they're curved blades with a single, very distinct, cutting edge. The greatswords in Fable are straight, appear to be double-edged, and have a... er, swollen tip. That is, the edges are straight and parallel, then briefly widen and then form a flat "tip" that's perpendicular to the edges. In outline, it looks almost like a column with a Doric capital. Here is a (small) picture. I think they're entirely fictional; I've never seen anything quite like it and it would have some real limitations as a practical weapon - not only would they be insanely heavy, the knobbed tip would defeat the purpose of having the "blade" - you'd never cut anything because the tip would get in the way. Matt Deres (talk) 13:43, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Matt's right, except that having a weighted tip on a sword could have a specific function. It would negate the use of the sword's point, but would put a lot of force behind it when swung, such that the cutting edge could better penetrate through armor. I believe there is a sword or polearm that was designed in this way, but I can't remember the name right now. I'll try and confirm if I can dig it up among my books. Legianon (talk) 00:25, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

a citizen kills a diplomat

What if a resident of a host nation kills a diplomats? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.64.128.65 (talk) 01:30, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Nothing happens due to diplomatic immunity. This is not meant as legal advise. Kills diplomats at your own risk. GoingOnTracks (talk) 02:07, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

I beg your pardon, GoingOnTracks? In a sense, you always "kill at your own risk", but I know of no "diplomatic immunity" that protects the one who brings harm to a diplomat. The diplomat is protected if he/she does harm, to a great or lesser extent, depending on the laws of the diplomat's country of origin. ៛ Bielle (talk) 02:14, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

• This is not legal advice, but the resident would likely be investigated and prosecuted for murder by the government of the place where the killing occurs, and, if found guilty, sent to prison for a very long time (or be subject to the death penalty if that place has capital punishment). Keep in mind that the killing of a foreign diplomat could have repercussions for the host nation's foreign relations, and so the government may well take a more aggressive stance in prosecution of the killer than they would in case of the killing of a citizen of their own country. Diplomatic immunity applies to crimes committed by a diplomat, not against a diplomat. --Metropolitan90 (talk) 03:20, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Nothing happens to a killer diplomat, but in the reverse, diplomatic immunity is non-transferable. Julia Rossi (talk) 03:39, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Or, putting it another way, diplomatic immunity is for diplomats. - Nunh-huh 03:47, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

It's not that nothing happens to a killer diplomat -- he would undoubtedly be expelled from the host country. (Depending on the circumstances and the home country's attitude toward the host country's justice system, the diplomat's home country might waive immunity and allow the diplomat to be tried in the host country.) He could also be prosecuted by his home country, but there's no guarantee of that. --Metropolitan90 (talk) 05:19, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

It's pretty customary for nation sending the diplomat to retract immunity from a member of the staff who commits some variety of homocide, see Gueorgui Makharadze.

Bear in mind if the murder is commited inside the diplomatic mission (embassy or high commision) of the diplomat, given the extraterritoriality status I suspect the diplomatic mission would be entitled to hold the murderer in the mission, and transfer him/her to their home country for trial for murder of the diplomat. Even if they don't manage to hold the murderer, they will probably be entitled to ask for extradition of the murderer (if there is an extradition treaty between the 2 countries). Indeed this may be the case even if the murder does not occur in the diplomatic mission. In reality, I suspect in most cases the diplomatic mission will simply hand over the murderer for trial by the host country.This discussion supports that view. Even if the country of the diplomat does want to try the murderer themselves, I suspect they will first hand over the suspect to the host country and then ask for extradition rather then try to hold the murderer in the mission and transfer him/her without explicit permission of the host country. (Bear in mind that the idea that a diplomatic mission is soveign territory of the country who owns it is in fact incorrect [3].) I also found some potentially interesting books via Google if you want to read further [4]. Nil Einne (talk) 14:04, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

So far, everyone answering this question has jumped to the conclusion that a killer is ipso facto a murderer, but it isn't so. The killing might be lawful. Xn4 19:48, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Holy bleep, you just spontaneously used ispo facto, correctly, italicized as it should be, and not even blue linked, it comes so naturally for you. Will you marry me? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.120.108.31 (talk) 22:09, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Amabilis insania! Xn4 23:33, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Kristallnacht. --Major Bonkers (talk) 13:00, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, Major Bonkers, but I don't understand your reference. Were there known diplomats involved in some way that made their deaths "legal killings"? I am missing something here, and would appreciate some help. ៛ Bielle (talk) 14:55, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

Oh dear - sorry Bielle! The original question asked was: 'What if a resident of a host nation kills a diplomats [sic.]' That was exactly what provided the causus belli for Kristallnacht; see the article:

“ On November 7, 1938, Herschel Grynszpan, a 17-year old German Jew enraged by his family's expulsion from Germany, walked into the German Embassy in Paris and fired five shots at a junior diplomat, Ernst vom Rath. 2 days later, the diplomat died and Germany was in the grip of skillfully orchestrated anti-Jewish violence. In the early hours of November 10, an orgy of coordinated destruction broke out in cities, towns and villages throughout the Third Reich. ”

Sorry for any confusion! --Major Bonkers (talk) 10:25, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

Law question.com

I know that Wikipedia doesn't answer questions that deals with law, but is there any website that take questions that deals with Canadian and International Law? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.64.128.65 (talk) 01:34, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

We can answer questions that deal with the law. We can't give legal advice. There's an important distinction there. Dismas|^(talk) 03:22, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

For example, it would be OK to ask what the sentence is for murder in California. I'm quite new here, so I don't know if this is allowed or not - but maybe the person who asked their question could post it here, and we could tell them whether we could answer it or not.78.150.225.157 (talk) 17:58, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

surnames

What type of surnames are these?: Bandali, Hundani, Haidari, Haiderzada, Khodadi, Medifar, Shahmoradi Zavareh, Sheidae'i, Hoidevzada, Karimzada, Pai, Noorbakhsh and Ahmadshahi? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.64.128.65 (talk) 01:50, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

If you mean where they are from, they are all Persian. --Omidinist (talk) 03:40, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Hindi-speaking and Urdu-speaking ethnic groups

Which ethnic groups in India speaks only Hindi and and which ethnic group in Pakistan speaks only Urdu? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.64.128.65 (talk) 02:32, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Apparently the the Saharia in Madhya Pradesh speak Hindi exclusively. Rockpocket 05:26, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

For the second question, it seems that the Muhajir (Pakistan) speak Urdu. Spencer^T♦C 15:38, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Hanafi

How Hanafi school of thought reached to Indian Subcontinent? Who introduced Hanafi to the people of Indian Subcontinent? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.64.128.65 (talk) 02:34, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

The Delhi Sultanate was the first Indian dynasty that followed the Hanafi school of jurisprudence. According to Development Of Islamic Jurisprudence In Sultanate Period:

The domination of Hanafi school of jurisprudence in Medieval India owes partly to the Turkish rulers who were Hanafi and partly to the 'ulama' who came from Nishapur, Sana'an, Gliaznin, Kashan, Balkh, Khwarizm, Tabrez, etc., which had been centres of the Hanafi school of thought.

That said, it is likely that Hanafi jurisprudence reached India long before that, albeit on a smaller scale. According to The History of India, as Told by Its Own Historians. The Muhammadan Period, Islam reached the Mappila on the sub-continent at the time of Muhammad Himself and there was regular contact between Arab traders and Indians from then on. So its likely that Hanafi was introduced to India not too long after it was founded by Abu Hanifa an-Nu‘man. Rockpocket 06:04, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Dress in Spain

I'm a 20s something American law student who's going to be taking some courses in Madrid next month. While I'm not interested in completely redoing my wardrobe, I would like to fit in a little, and wondered how a typical Spaniard in my situation would dress. I've done some Google searches, but I'm having trouble distinguishing legitimate advice. Anyone have any ideas for me? Thanks in advance. GreatManTheory (talk) 17:38, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

I have no idea, but ... indicating if you are male or female might give others a good starting point ... (Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 00:21, 22 June 2008 (UTC))

Ah, good point. I'm male. And now that I think about it, I'm not sure if the Entertainment desk is the best place to pose this question. Would anyone mind moving this to the Humanities or Miscellaneous desk for me? (I don't know how, or I'd do it myself) Thanks, GreatManTheory (talk) 03:14, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

What they do look like[5] and what game stereotypers make them look like[6] (scroll down). Julia Rossi (talk) 03:50, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Had this been left on the Entertainment Desk, I would have suggested wearing a bullfighter's outfit, for the pure entertainment value. StuRat (talk) 15:29, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

On a quick search I found [this picture of a faculty get-together] in Navarre. But academic staff looks pretty much the same anywhere in a moderate climate - perhaps you were more interested in street fashion? 84.239.133.47 (talk) 16:57, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

The general trick is to arrive conservatively dressed and adjust your wardrobe after you've got the feel of the place. --Wetman (talk) 17:00, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

It will be very hot and many buildings don't have air-conditioning. You could pack some short-sleeved shirts and chinos. I'm sure students and academics wear polo shirts (with logos) and t-shirts (without outrageous designs), but I don't think Spanish men usually wear shorts in town. Itsmejudith (talk) 20:47, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Are jeans acceptable about town, or should I stick with chinos? GreatManTheory (talk) 01:27, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

I would say definitely acceptable if clean and not ripped. The Spanish professional men you meet will often be wearing better quality casual wear, with mid-market labels, but they won't mind if you don't. Itsmejudith (talk) 14:41, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Thank you all for the helpful answers. GreatManTheory (talk) 17:40, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Politician income

Can anyone direct me to a reference source for US Senators and Representatives true income, including benifits such as medical, retirement, income taxes etc.? I have read several wikipedia reference articles bur cannot find one that deals with total income. Thank you. WSC —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.85.203.191 (talk) 16:44, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Hi WSC. You mean absolutely everything they earn - Congressional and privately (eg. speaking engagement salaries)? Publicly paid salaries and expenses are likely published, private income might be harder to track down.78.150.225.157 (talk) 17:53, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

What exactly is an income tax benefit? Nil Einne (talk) 19:31, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

To Nil Einne - I am not sure what the questioner means by the phrase, but there are parts of some politicians' salaries in some jurisdictions (Canadian Federal politicians, for example) that are not subject to income tax. That would be an "income-tax benefit" to me. I don't know how the U.S. system of compensation works, though.៛ Bielle (talk) 00:29, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

I know for medical benefits, that US congressmen/women have full coverage, all treatment and medication paid. So medical benefits would depend on the person's health. There is no income tax benefit for congresspeople. Also, the base salary for a regular member of congress is $169,300, though some of the members turn down pay increases. Hmm, just found a link, see this: http://usgovinfo.about.com/library/weekly/aa031200a.htm. I think this would help. Spencer^T♦C 13:58, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Following from a link on the page that Spencer linked to above, I found this: [7]. It's written from an obvious and very strong point of view, but it talks about how the "pay increases" Spencer referenced are actually considered "Cost of Living Raises". Which, I guess, explains how they're able to get around the 27th Amendment.Dgcopter (talk) 21:09, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

What religions / philosophies believe that life and suffering give us reasons to enjoy heaven?

I believe that life and suffering (possibly over the course of several lifetimes) shape our unique desires, which give us reasons to enjoy Heaven. I use the term "Heaven" in the general sense, not specifically Christian. Also, I don't believe in Hell or enlightenment. I believe that malicious desires are extinguished upon entering Heaven. What religions / philosophies share these beliefs? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Steohawk (talk • contribs) 18:47, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints believe this to some degree. In their Book of Mormon it states that:

"There is an opposition in all things. If not so... righteousness could not be brought to pass, neither wickedness, neither holiness nor misery, neither good nor bad. Wherefore, all things must needs be a compound in one; wherefore, if it should be one body it must needs remain as dead, having no life neither death, nor corruption nor incorruption, happiness nor misery, neither sense nor insensibility. Wherefore, it must needs have been created for a thing of naught; wherefore there would have been no purpose in the end of its creation. Wherefore, this thing must needs destroy the wisdom of God and his eternal purposes, and also the power, and the mercy, and the justice of God. And if ye shall say there is no law, ye shall also say there is no sin. If ye shall say there is no sin, ye shall also say there is no righteousness. And if there be no righteousness there be no happiness. And if there be no righteousness nor happiness there be no punishment nor misery. And if these things are not there is no God. And if there is no God we are not, neither the earth; for there could have been no creation of things, neither to act nor to be acted upon; wherefore, all things must have vanished away." 2 Nep. 2:11-13

In other words, there can be no good without the bad. If there wasn't any misery here then God's whole plan for our happiness (and entrance into heaven) would be destroyed, because we need to be able to choose one or the other and experience both in order to appreciate either. Quite a lovely passage. Wrad (talk) 20:18, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Thank you, Wrad. Steohawk (talk) 20:39, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Japanese Inferiority Complex?

Is it true that Japanese have an inferiority complex about the way they look compared to Europeans? Hence the anime characters typically don't look Asian and have huge eyes... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.7.54.224 (talk) 21:42, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

I draw your attention to the last line of this exerpt from the article Anime, which explains the large eyes as follows:

A common approach is the large eyes style drawn on many anime and manga characters. Osamu Tezuka was inspired by the exaggerated features of American cartoon characters such as Betty Boop, Mickey Mouse, and Disney's Bambi.[3][19] Tezuka found that large eyes style allowed his characters to show emotions distinctly. When Tezuka began drawing Ribbon no Kishi, the first manga specifically targeted at young girls, Tezuka further exaggerated the size of the characters' eyes. Indeed, through Ribbon no Kishi, Tezuka set a stylistic template that later shōjo artists tended to follow.

Coloring is added to give eyes, particularly the cornea, and some depth. The depth is accomplished by applying variable color shading. Generally, a mixture of a light shade, the tone color, and a dark shade is used.[20][21] Cultural anthropologist Matt Thorn argues that Japanese animators and audiences do not perceive such stylized eyes as inherently more or less foreign.[5]'

If they are not perceived as foreign, then it is not likely the eyes are any indication of a feeling of inferiority. ៛ Bielle (talk) 23:04, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Not perceived as foreign? Right... Somehow I find that unconvincing. Also, there are rumors of large numbers of Japanese women who get eye surgery to make the openings of their eyes larger. Seems to add up to an inferiority complex... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.7.54.224 (talk) 00:09, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Asian blepharoplasty is not restricted to Japanese; it is used by many Asian groups. --98.217.8.46 (talk) 00:41, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

I know of no European who bears any more than a passing resemblance to the anime figures either. How things "seem" to you based on "rumors", and what arguments you find convincing are, of course, matters of your personal opinion and belief. I might equally argue, with the same type of data, that the figures of "Popeye" and "Superman" show an inherent sense of inferiority in the American male about his body shape with respect to gorillas, for example, but I wouldn't. This is beginning to feel like a trolling exercise, and I shall thus abandon my participation here. ៛ Bielle (talk) 00:53, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Whether and to what degree Japanese people find manga/anime characters with unrealistically large eyes make the latter look foreign is a question that can be resolved empirically, but the truth or falsity of (a properly formulated version of) that hypothesis is unaffected by how convincing you find it. Even if, for the sake of argument, unrealistically large eyes do make manga/anime characters look more foreign, your reasoning is still missing premises that would connect that "fact" with the conclusion. As it stands now, your conclusion is a non sequitur. If the Japanese did have an inferiority complex and which manifests as a preference for manga/anime characters with unrealistically large eyes, why didn't they give their manga/anime characters other body features that would make them more foreign or European-like, say blond hair, curly hair, prominent & pointed noses, freckles, and light-colored irises? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.162.233.193 (talk) 06:11, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Facial features of many anime characters (light/white skin, big eyes) make them resemble Europeans more than Asians, as had been noted by many other than myself. Is the cause of that an inferiority complex? I've asked this question hoping for an unbiased and carefully thought out reply. This is supposed to be the place for questions to be asked and answered. An unbiased and well thought out reply I have not received. If you find the question too politically incorect, Bielle, by all means allow someone with a stronger stomach to answer it. BTW, I don't remember Popeye, but I'd indeed argue the character of Superman was born due partly to some feelings of male inferiority. I would like you to note, also, that I have nothing against the Japanese. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.7.54.224 (talk) 02:44, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

You were given an answer with information specifically dealing with the only 'evidence' you put forth in favor of your 'theory'. It didn't seem biased to me. Pleaase consider the possibility that your theory is wrong, and Bielle isn't part of some conspiracy to cover it up because it's not politically correct.

"Do Manga Characters Look White"

Also, remember that anime characters are designed by and for Japanese people. To them a simple :) smiley face makes them think of what's familiar to them, an Asian face. If you want to draw a cartoon face that looks asian to an westerner, you've got to add some exaggerated features to it (Slanted eyes, dark hair, etc.), but all that stuff is taken for granted over there. APL (talk) 06:20, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

I've given your argument some thought, APL, but I think it's not as convincing as the argument I've put forward. I've already read both articles cited here before asking this question. One other thing you might have difficulty explaining is girl's breasts in anime, which are also not drawn true to Japanese phenotype. You can't say that any breasts look to an Asian person like Asian breasts. The breasts in anime are notably un-Asian and it's not a coincidence real Japanese women's breast aren't large. What could help here is the opinion of some experts on Japanese culture. Even the opinion of any Japanese would be helpful.

[quote]If the Japanese did have an inferiority complex and which manifests as a preference for manga/anime characters with unrealistically large eyes, why didn't they give their manga/anime characters other body features that would make them more foreign or European-like, say blond hair, curly hair, prominent & pointed noses, freckles, and light-colored irises?[/quote] Because it's not freckles or pointed noses that make them feel inferior.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.7.54.224 (talk) 06:52, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

On a tangent: What fowlish complex may be the explanation for the popularity of a closet nudist trouser-less duck in Dysneyesque cultures? Clearly, this may be construed to be an institutionalised iconography of bestial soft-porn based on fundamentalist penis envy as experienced by a complex minority... --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 10:24, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Well, if you've already read those articles, perhaps you could give us a clue to what sort of specific factual information you're looking for?

Because it looks like you're simply asking a yes/no question, and then assuming that everyone who answers 'no' has some sort of agenda. I'm not sure what the point of that is. Perhaps you're waiting for someone to say 'yes', so you can say "That's what I thought all along." and strut away feeling clever? Sorry if that's not the case.

On a different tangent, you seem to imply that you know of a place on Earth where the girls have breasts similar to those possessed by typical female Anime characters. About 50% of us would greatly appreciate it if you could tell us where that is. Thanks. APL (talk) 13:28, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Comment Many light skinned people risk their lifes trying to get a tan because the like the look and/or think it looks healthy. You could contrue they have an inferiority complex. You could alternatively construe it's a result of a mixture of fashion, misconception and history... Also, although Japanese female breasts may on average be smaller then people from some other races, they aren't as miniscule as you seem to think, and I don't know of many people who would say that Anime character breasts look un-Asian anymore then they look unnatural period, something which isn't uncommon in animated characters. (The lead of Tomb Raider is also known for having extremely large breasts.) Nil Einne (talk) 13:42, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

APL, I'm looking for some conclusive evidence. Opinions of experts (plural, not just one) on the culture, interviews with manga-ka (why did you draw your characters in this way?), polls of the general Japanese populace (do you find oversized eyes, white skin and larger breasts of anime characters attactive? do you find European women on average/in general more attractive than Japanese women? do you think that female (often male, too) anime characters are intentionlly made to look more European than Asian?). There are many inferiority complexes that a large percentage of white people has about their bodies; I don't see how anyone can deny that. Being fat is particularly unpopular. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.62.238.123 (talk) 17:48, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Well, that's the problem. You're looking for a conclusive answer to a subjective issue. Trying to paint an entire society as suffering from a specific condition is pretty much guaranteed to fail. An inferiority complex is too personal to apply to an entire society. You would be more likely to find objective studies of Japanese culture with regards to social hierarchy, and study how that relates to their art (eg. anime). — The Hand That Feeds You:^Bite 22:30, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

The issue is objective, not subjective. For instance, it's objective that from at 1930 to 1945 (probably before and after, too) anti-Jewish sentiment was common among Germans. It doesn't have to be the entire Japanese society; if it's the majority or a significant percentage that suffers from the condition then that's also an acceptable answer. I don't understand your comment about Japanese social hierarchy.

June 23

Salem

Who were the youngest victims of the Salem Witch Hysteria and how many of them were under 25? 71.174.16.91 (talk)LeighAnn —Preceding comment was added at 02:38, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

According to this website, http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/salem/SAL_ACCT.HTM, there were two youngest victims out of nineteen that were convicted of witchcraft. Coffsneeze (talk) 03:17, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

It depends a bit on what you call a "victim" - many were victims who weren't convicted. It was primarily the perpetrators that were under 25, falsely accusing their elders, but probably the youngest victim was the infant daughter of Sarah Good, who was born in prison and died of disease from the intolerable conditions. -Nunh-huh 03:27, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

According to People of the Salem Witch Trials, most of those with their own articles who were executed were rather old. John Willard may have been as young as 19 or 20. Clarityfiend (talk) 03:39, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

I asked because I just watched the movie Teaching Mrs. Tingle, where the main character does her history class project on a girl killed during the Salem Witch Hysteria. The use of the term "girl" and not "woman" made it sound like the victim was a teenager, and according to the movie character doing her project on the teenaged victim, she was eventually "burned at the stake". But it seems like no one was burned, they were all hanged or crushed by stones. So was that movie completely off and mixed up the perpetrators with the victims? 71.174.16.91 (talk)LeighAnn —Preceding comment was added at 04:29, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

In a witch hunt, the line between "victim" and "perpetrator" can easily get blurred. A common technique is to offer someone amnesty if they will accuse others of witchcraft. --Carnildo (talk) 22:34, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Paul Cézanne's "Flowers in a Rococo Vase"

I was wondering whether anyone could tell me whether the flowers painted in this painting are real flowers that exist in nature, and if so, what their names would be. I am trying to replicate or at least draw from this in a bouquet if possible. Any help would be very much appreciated. Thanks. Thucydides of Thrace (talk) 03:09, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

The white flower with a dark center, in the middle of the bouquet, looks like a pansy[8]to me. The pinkish flower with a dark center (or is that an obstructing leaf?) directly above it might also be a pansy. And right below the white pansy is another large white flower, with 5 distinct petals, that I think may be a Rosa acicularis.

The two small red flowers at the very top of the bouquet are perhaps poppies, which in the language of flowers symbolize sleep (though according to our article red ones mean true love). Interpreting the meanings of all the flowers here might be fun. :-)

And, though I might be way off, the little yellow blossom and bluish flower, that appear to share the same stem, sticking out of the upper left side of the bouquet could be cosmos.

At the very bottom of the bouquet are two large pink flowers that seem to be the same species. I'm not sure what they are exactly, but they might be partially-opened tulips... They look just like a picture I once saw labeled "Rose of Sharon", but according to that flower's article no one really knows what those are.

Hope that helps a little. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.174.16.91 (talk) 06:57, 23 June 2008 (UTC) 71.174.16.91 (talk)Glenda —Preceding comment was added at 03:58, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

More suspects are varieties of Ranunculus[9] and the top poppy-like ones fit Ranunculus asiaticus; the pink roses with a bud hanging down on the left look like these examples[10]. Julia Rossi (talk) 08:47, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

I suspect Glenda meant cosmos and not cosmos. The blue one looks a bit like a cornflower to me, but an ID is tough at this resolution. Here is a larger picture to go by. Matt Deres (talk) 14:16, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

With the bigger picture, I'm starting to think that the pink flower(s) to the right of the yellow one may be two lines of foxgloves (digitalis). Matt Deres (talk) 23:14, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the correction, Matt. Forgive my cosmic error. 71.174.16.91 (talk) 07:55, 26 June 2008 (UTC)Glenda

Only now I noticed it's a Cezanne... was it an early work? Not typical, then. Julia Rossi (talk) 09:00, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

international criminal court

Do you agree that the international criminal court has an important role to play in the international arena? should it's area of activity be expanded? please elaborate on your answer. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.43.250.238 (talk) 06:40, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Do you agree that doing your own homework is important? Please elaborate on your answer. --Anon, 07:54 UTC, June 23.

it's not a homework assignment.it's for my own interest.if you acquire the knowledge to answer this question please do if not, stay away. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.43.250.238 (talk) 08:05, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Well it doesn't matter since as the guidelines at the top say, this is not a place for debates or diatrabes. So asking someone's opinion on the ICC, or anything else of that sort is best done elsewhere. If you have a factual question, like on the working of the ICC then you are welcome to ask them Nil Einne (talk) 13:33, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

International Borders

My question is whether wikipedia contains detailed information about the exact definitions of borders between countries. The most information I can find are bits and pieces embedded in articles, especially for famous borders or areas of dispute. Just to illustrate one of over 190 countries, Brazil has a rather complex border with many parts of it following a seemingly arbitrary path when viewing a satellite photo of the country. I would think that there has to be some legal agreements/treaties that precisely define the non-disputed borders of the world, but I just can't find any through google or wikipedia. (I am looking for data on all the countries in the world, not just Brazil) Thank you. Dwr12 (talk) 06:43, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Hmm... List of territorial disputes shows disputed borders. Try looking through Category:Borders by country, and it has lists of articles showing borders between countries. It has articles like Radcliffe Line, McMahon Line, Tumen River, and many others. I don't think there is a generalising article overall on wikipedia, though. Spencer^T♦C 13:49, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

(EC) I'm pretty sure borders basically depend on individual treaties between countries and are often a result of a mixture of history and geography. There are large number of borders which remain disputed. There are various ways a border dispute may be resolved, war is the obvious one, as are bilateral negotiations. Countries may also agree to take disputes to the International Court of Justice (or may have existing laws recognising the compulsory jurisdiction of the ICJ) and the ICJ will consider a variety of factors probably mostly history and geography, and how international law interacts with them. For example, if a country has historically issued maps showing the defacto borders, and given no previous sign of disputing these borders, they may find it difficult to convince the ICJ they have a legitimate claim if they later start arguing for different borders which are rejected by the bordering country. Nil Einne (talk) 13:54, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

To refine on what information I am looking for, I do not need historical accounts about how various borders started or great detail about famous/disputed borders. I would like to gather information that would be sufficient to draw a map of all the world's non-disputed borders to within 1km accuracy given a picture of the earth (not that I'm actually trying to do this). This information is something that all map makers surely need to practice their trade so I'm surprised how this information is not openly presented anywhere on the internet as near as I can tell. Dwr12 (talk) 21:50, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

I'd guess that you'd have to rely on something such as Google Maps, which likely (at least in better-developed areas) would be able to do this. Barring that, you'd probably need to contact various embassies. Nyttend (talk) 04:39, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

If you just want "sufficient information" to draw a map with international borders, you could use a public domain geographic database like the Digital Chart of the World. I'm not sure if it quite meets the one km accuracy standard though. On the other hand, if you want to know why the borders are where they are, or obtain some kind legal-type text description of a border, it seems to me that for most borders you would have to dig through historical accounts and the text of old treaties, etc. On the other hand, some borders are easier to learn about than others. The Canada – United States border even has an wikipedia page. You might also be interested in the category Category:Borders by country. Pfly (talk) 06:08, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Polling in the United States

I want to know some information about polling in the United States. I want to know the types of voters.

• As far as I know, generally lower income group prefers Democrats, while higher income group prefers Republicans. But from the article on Republican Party, I saw many poor voters also voted for Republicans Republican_Party_(United_States)#Voter_base. I want to why many poor people vote for Republicans? What motivate them to vote for such a right-wing conservative party?

• I want to know something about the voter base of the Green Party (United States). The article Green Party (United States) does not have any information about this. Why the Green Party (United States) has not been able to gain much votes?

• Why the worker class in the United States do not prefer socialist parties like Socialist Party USA or Socialist Equality Party? Otolemur crassicaudatus (talk) 08:10, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

For the first and last questions, you can peruse the books What's the Matter with Kansas by Thomas Frank and "Why there is no Socialism in the United States" by Werner Sombart (which is interesting, despite being published a century ago...). AnonMoos (talk) 08:38, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

1)The reasons could be any of many many reasons, but logically - just because it appears (on the surface) that party X is more for 'you' than party Y doesn't mean that you will support it. I'm a low-income earning who owns no property yet my preferred party is one that provides minimal-welfare, isn't "for the poor" and is historically linked with 'the rich'. Why do I vote for them? Because i'm an idealist, because I believe in the ideological framework of their party. The Republican Party isn't just for the rich, and the democractic isn't just for the less-rich (neither are exactly socialist compared to Europe). The reasons could also be family-tradition, cultural reasons, moral-reasons (party X may support abortion or party Y may oppose it for example) etc. etc.

2) The green-party will struggle as a result of your political system being a 'two-plus' system - that is that in general 2 parties dominate and other single-issue/minor parties exist which are used almost as indicators/public mood gauges. Often you'll find these parties 'rise' as public-interest in those issues increases and then fall as the main-parties adopt their policy-ideas/respond to the changing demand. That's not always the case and some parties are a victim of the electoral-system and could increase power in say proportional representation rather than the single member plurality system that exists in many countries (certainly UK and I think the US - can't say i've studied US political system enough though).

3) As per reasons 1 and 2 - it's a combination of just because something appears beneficial to a voter doesn't mean they believe it, or that that is who they are vote. We aren't perfectly logical beings and we aren't entirely self-interested. 194.221.133.226 (talk) 08:41, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

2)The third parties such as the Greens and the Libertarians are often not even considered due to the overwhelming presence of the two major parties. A vote for a third party is often seen as a vote that is thrown away and useless. While this point can be argued both ways, this is the prevailing stereotype amongst the non-political scientists in the general populace.

3)In the layman's eyes, socialism and communism are closely tied together and both are seen as being bad or even evil. How much of this has to do with McCarthyism, I'm not certain. Dismas|^(talk) 10:08, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Per 3), it's more because the U.S. was inundated with anti-Soviet propaganda during the entire Cold War, and the US citizenry often associates, rather unfairly, socialism with the Soviet Union. Someoneinmyheadbutit'snotme (talk) 18:08, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Most workers in the United States have virtually no class consciousness. Instead, they are deeply indoctrinated into false consciousness. They may believe that because they occupy an office cubicle and type all day or because they pay a monthly mortgage bill and not a monthly rent that they are members of the bourgeoisie. The Republican party has cleverly managed to paint the Democrats as an intellectual elite, who are resented and despised by the strongly anti-intellectual U.S. working class. Many Republican candidates, while representing the interests of capital, affect working-class culture. For example, George W. Bush, despite an elite Northeastern family background and an elite education, speaks in a manner that suggests a working-class Texan. This leads working-class voters to identify with Republicans over Democrats who betray an elite education. Control of the U.S. media (and particularly television) by capital has led to a particularly effective form of hegemony in which the working class, particularly the white working class, are convinced that policies that benefit the rich, such as tax breaks dramatically skewed toward the highest earners, will benefit ordinary workers, and that government programs aiming at greater equality are modeled after the Cold War enemy, the Soviet Union, and therefore evil. 76.19.109.155 (talk) 00:06, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

OK, let's clean up the POV here. To understand why "third parties" like the Greens and Socialists don't succeed in the U.S., see Duverger's law. Basically, a vote for a third party is considered "throwing your vote away" or, worse, helping the arch-enemy get elected (see Ralph Nader). As for why Americans tend to be farther to the right economically than people in other countries, that's a very complex question, but it largely has to do with the racial makeup of the population. In America, being a have-not is associated with being in a racial minority, so most white people feel linked more closely with the haves than the have-nots. It's a largely subconscious thing. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 02:36, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm dubious about that last part; got a cite? --Anon, 06:29 UTC, June 24,2008.

See this, for example, and this. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 14:53, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

history

Is history determined by geography?

Geography can influence history. It's hard to conquer a country when you can't cross the mountains to get to it or sail across the sea. Geography can make it difficult to keep supply lines to your troops and colonies open. Were you looking for something more specific? Perhaps you might find the articles on Hannibal and the Second Punic War interesting. The introduction to the later should explain why I've pointed you in that direction. Dismas|^(talk) 10:11, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

The author of the popular book Guns, Germs, and Steel theorizes that almost all of the major trends of history were heavily influenced by geography. See the intro to that article for a quick overview. You may also be interested in reading Environmental determinism. 152.16.16.75 (talk) 10:34, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

And if you want to get the effect of reading all of GG&S, simply read the article four times in a row. :) --Sean 14:13, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

There are undoubtedly other intelligent civilizations out there in the universe, and humanity's history of contact, commerce, and war with them has been utterly dominated by geography.  :) --Sean 14:13, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Let's put it this way: history is not "determined" by any one thing. But of the many factors, geography is pretty important, even in the most modern times when space is largely mitigated. Think about why Pakistan is so important in the modern world—it is nestled at the intersection of a number of "hot zones" and provides a staging point for all of them. Think about things like natural resources and the way they continue to shape our world. --98.217.8.46 (talk) 13:26, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Also have a look at Fernand Braudel. His books about the effect of the Mediterranean effectively argue just your point. --Major Bonkers (talk) 12:50, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

immorality of poverty

Is there an academic philosophy that consider poor people in a free society immoral since they are not contributing to the society? GoingOnTracks (talk) 15:25, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

I wouldn't say that poor people are poor because they don't contribute towards society. There are many causes of poverty, including accidents, disability, children, discrimination, ... 80.58.205.37 (talk) 16:20, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Agreed, poor people often contribute more than their low rates of pay indicate, such as farm workers in the US who pick the food we eat and get paid less than minium wage. Perhaps you mean people who choose not to work at all. If so, those should definitely not be confused with the much larger group of working poor. StuRat (talk) 16:26, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Good point: some (?) of their contribution above their low wages is pocketed by their bosses in the form of profit. -- Deborahjay (talk) 16:31, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Which is not immoral either since the bosses were the ones who provided the start-up capital. Zain Ebrahim (talk) 17:45, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

There's a problem with that concept, though. Back in slavery days, the master provided all the capital and got all the rewards, and the slaves provided all the work and only got enough to keep them alive, in return. Far more common now are forms of economic slavery, like serfdom, indentured servitude, and, in some cases, working for a company town. It's definitely not moral to deny the workers of any benefit from their work. StuRat (talk) 18:08, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

I agree that those can be immoral but I was referring to the general case. A poor person who earns a "fair" wage is not a victim of immorality, IMHO. By fair wage I mean a market-related wage determined by supply and demand without any cheating involved (so the worker knew exactly what he/she was signing). For example, a mineworker. Yes, he's poor and he can barely afford to feed his family and educate his children despite his dangerous job but the mine-company can't be called immoral. If it can then we really need a huge paradigm shift. Zain Ebrahim (talk) 18:30, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

I certainly would say they could be called immoral. Prior to the formation of the United Mine Workers Union, the mine owners had children working in the mines instead of going to school, and the politicians and police in their pockets, so anyone who complained would either be killed outright or fired and their family would then starve to death. Unrestricted capitalism leads to some horrid results. Later on the government stepped in and put in some safety rules and basic protections for workers. Unfortunately, the government has largely abdicated any responsibility for consumer or worker protection recently, and unions are fatally weakened by competition from 3rd world nations. Thus, we could be in for a new round of the most abusive employment practices, such as those which many illegal aliens must presently endure. StuRat (talk) 23:24, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

I don't know which "academic philosophy" corresponds to the (presumably theologically based) Protestant (or Puritan) work ethic. Generally regarded, the terms you've stated don't seem to match up. Leaving aside "immoral," here's an attempt to clarify what I find ambiguous: "Poor people" strictly considered means impoverished or destitute, lacking means; in "contributing to the [free] society" do you mean "gainfully employed" (wage-earning)? And is this "free society" a catch term for "free-market economy"? Otherwise, turning around the last condition might be relevant: "...[since they] constitute a drain on society's resources." -- Hope that helps, Deborahjay (talk) 16:31, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

There is a religious view that "you get what you deserve", on Earth, and thus good people are rewarded financially while poor people "did something to deserve this punishment". Of course, this concept doesn't hold up well at all, since there are rich people who are clearly the scum of the Earth and poor people who are quite noble. The Biblical case of Job is one such example. StuRat (talk) 16:57, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

This view is commonly referred to as the Prosperity Gospel; as StuRat says, it doesn't hold up very well under scrutiny. Gwinva (talk) 21:41, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

Levinas had treated this topic in his work. Money can be a way of reaching a more moral society. It provides us a way of inter-acting and construct new thing with people that we never met before. Supposing that you have worked and earned something for this work, the money in your pocket is your way of telling the world that you did something for society (and claim something from it back). Money earners are not always on the extreme of below minimal wage or above some millions. 80.58.205.37 (talk) 17:24, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Here's a way of looking at it that I find to be jarring for people who've not spent much thought on the working poor: a game like capitalism absolutely guarantees that there are winners and losers; it's impossible to imagine a capitalist system where all have equal outcomes. Given that you've accepted the inherent goodness of such a system, how can you condemn those poor bastards who end up at the bottom? --Sean 22:38, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

GoingOnTracks, maybe it's just the wording of your question, but it reads as if you're suggesting that individuals can be classified as moral or immoral. I don't think that's appropriate. Actions (incuding lack of action), intentions and attitudes might fall somewhere on the morality spectrum, but people themselves don't. It might be considered immoral that "society" has allowed some people to be affluent and others to be poor; but the poor people are not personally immoral, and neither are the rich ones. -- JackofOz (talk) 14:59, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

@JackofOz: indeed the formulation of the question was somehow unhappy. A much better approach would be to ask if there is some academic philosophy that considers the act of not earning money as immoral, since it proves that this person is not working. In other other hand, it would consider high-wages a form of social work, since this person has contributed a lot toward society (and received it back). GoingOnTracks (talk) 15:24, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

OK, but then you'd have to look at individual cases. One person may be sick, another may have serious self-esteem or psychological issues, another may be doing their dardnest but keeps getting rejected, another may have just won the lottery, another may be devoting their time to writing a book that they hope will get published and give them an unending source of royalty income, and so it goes. I doubt that there's a philosophy that covers all people who could theoretically work but aren't currently working, regardless of the circumstances. -- JackofOz (talk) 23:50, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Is there a philosophy, GoinOnTracks – have you tried Thatcherism? And in case anyone thought poor people might get ahead in life, there was the Poll tax also here[11] and here[12] for basically, just breathing. Julia Rossi (talk) 13:08, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

Thatcherism can't blame the poor for not contributing to society since There is no such thing as society. DJ Clayworth (talk) 18:15, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

But why is a contribution to society defined by wealth? Or the amount of taxes paid, or the amount of paid work done? Surely contributions to society stretch beyond that rather capitalist model? "Volunteers" of one form or another contribute massively. They donate blood, work in soup kitchens, bring up children, distribute aid, dig wells, fundraise for charities, coach sports teams, help in hospices, visit prisons, help in civil emergencies, transport patients, pop in on the elderly lady down the road, help in schools, apply CPR to a stranger...and so on. (They even edit wikipedia.) You might work all hours of the day, cut all sorts of business deals, pay lots of taxes, and not "contribute" as much as the pensioner down the road who's never worked. Mother Theresa wasn't a wage earner, for example. Gwinva (talk) 21:41, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

It sounds to me like you're trying to think of the Free rider problem, whereby in some economic systems, some are able to consume more than they contribute. This isn't really much of a philosophical or theological one, as is discussed above, although, in my reading, the free rider corresponds to Hobbes' foole. But again, I've always been a bit dis-satisfied with Hobbes' answer to the foole. You can read about him here. Llamabr (talk) 12:16, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

United States Supreme Court Cases

Why does the Supreme Court of the United States have the option to pick and choose what cases it will hear when other courts in the United States do not? EagleFalconn (talk) 19:39, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

This is not the case. Many appellate courts have a degree of discretionary review. — Lomn 20:49, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Are there any that don't? --jpgordon^∇∆∇∆ 01:08, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Discretionary review suggests that the lowest level of appellate courts generally do not have such discretion, though presumably a prompt upholding of the original decision is little different in practice. — Lomn 03:18, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Ah, I guess that's what happened in the case (involving me) I was thinking about. The appeal was heard and swiftly rejected. --jpgordon^∇∆∇∆ 03:53, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

The role of appellate courts (the USSC being the highest of which, in the USA) is not to provide a place you can go if you weren't happy with the lower court's verdict, but to provide oversight for the lower courts. It's systemic, not personal relief, which not every dissatisfied party has a right to. The personal aspects of the cases (the odious Mr. Miranda, for example) are generally not heavily considered. --Sean 01:15, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

So then if I'm interpreting the above answers correctly, SCOTUS only has discretion on appellate cases. In a case where someone files suit against the federal government, or one state sues another, SCOTUS must hear the case as it is the only court with jurisdiction? 63.172.27.2 (talk) 15:27, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Nope. There's actually a federal district court system in place for just such events. The case would first go before the federal courts, then could be appealed upwards. There are only a few instances where a case would go straight to the SCOTUS. — The Hand That Feeds You:^Bite 22:36, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Hand ... what's a good example of a case that would go straight to SCOTUS? Can you offer a "for instance", please? Thanks. (Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 04:54, 26 June 2008 (UTC))

Under the U.S. Constitution, the Supreme Court has original jurisdiction "In all Cases affecting Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls, and those in which a State shall be a Party." In practice, its jurisdiction over most of these cases is discretionary and concurrent with the lower courts; the only cases routinely heard originally by the Supreme Court are disputes between U.S. states. The Court generally appoints a special master to hear the case. John M Baker (talk) 15:17, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

Science

Please help me find something on " The Depletion of the ozone layer and its effect on the earth's vegetation". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.54.21.148 (talk) 22:02, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Our article on ozone (not the Moldavian pop group) and ozone depletion may be a good start. But hurry, before it has turned into a hole. --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 22:13, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

(ec) See Ozone depletion and Ozone depletion#Effects on crops which has about 3 lines of information. But I'm sure you'll get a (MUCH) better answer at the Science section of the Refdesk which can be found at Wikipedia:Reference desk/Science. Zain Ebrahim (talk) 22:17, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Well. according to user:Zain Ebrahim it has already become a hole. WP does - in real time - reflect ozone depletion in - gasp, gasp - oh, bugger it, I thought it was oxygen - croak ... Help, sinebot, —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk • contribs) 22:40, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

<take my hand 84.54.21.418 – it's not a scary ride but here we go to the science desk right here[13] where your question will get true respek and maybe more answers (not that these are poor by any means)... touchdown with Julia Rossi (talk) 08:50, 24 June 2008 (UTC)>

June 24

Coco Chanel

In the second to the last section, there are a couple of statements to the effect that: Coco Chanel was a dangerous serial killer of young fat children. Upon completing the kill, she would eat her victims. When I pulled up the section to edit this obviously false information, the sentences did not appear in the edit window???? Can you see this, and any idea how to fix it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.235.56.191 (talk) 01:03, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

• Just garden variety vandalism; someone else fixed it within a minute, and beat you to it. You can always click on the "history" tab to see what's happened to the article. --jpgordon^∇∆∇∆ 01:07, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

LDS and Jews

As a non-LDS Christian reading Doctrine and Covenants for the first time, I was surprised to see that (if I understand it rightly) male LDS members who are literal descendents of Aaron are automatically qualified for the bishopric. Does this mean that a kohen who becomes LDS will immediately be ordained a bishop? It's not like this would apply to me, if you wonder; my family claims to have Levitical ancestry, but not priestly. 71.182.134.18 (talk) 05:15, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

As far as the LDS is concerned, your ancestry is whatever someone tells you it is in your patriarchal blessing. It may or may not be related to any actual ancestors- it's a "spiritual" thing, not expected to comport with fact. - Nunh-huh 22:29, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Query on Australian culture and Location of Indian restaurants

I am a new student at Australian campus, what are the rules of compliance there? Is it similar to the US , & what are the Indian restaurants for Indian food?

What —Preceding unsigned comment added by Garb wire (talk • contribs) 06:30, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Who what when where and why? Thanks Julia Rossi (talk) 08:41, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

My query pertains to the australian culture Is it similar to the US? Are there good American and Indian restaurants? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Garb wire (talk • contribs) 14:34, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

In answer to your first question, have a look at our article on Culture of Australia. To answer your second question, it might be helpful if you told us where in Australia you are living. --Richardrj ^{talk email} 14:44, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Richard,nothing in that link, explicitly mentions about the living style of aussies and how they perceive asians or about racism....... By the way i am living in Melbourne..... The only thing that caught my eyes in that link was about Fox studios moving to Melbourne......Very keen on knowing their lifestyles Is it similar to the US? 15:44, 24 June 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Garb wire (talk • contribs)

This question will be hard for us to answer, as it is subjective. How do we compare or quantify racism? If Australian culture is similar in some ways to U.S. culture but different in others, how do we assess how similar it is? Finally, to answer the question, an editor would need a sound knowledge of both Australian and U.S. culture and particularly of racism in each. I am very familiar with U.S. culture but am not Asian and so do not have that experience. I can say that U.S. culture varies enormously from place to place and from ethnic group to ethnic group. In fact, there really is no single U.S. culture. When it comes to racism toward South Asians or other Asians, this too varies enormously from place to place and group to group. So it would be hard to compare the U.S. in this regard to Australia, even if Australian culture and the incidence of racism in Australia is uniform across that country, which I doubt. I will say that I have been involved in a discussion forum for immigrants to Canada. Most of the participants in this forum were of South Asian descent. Some discussions had to do with racism toward South Asians in different countries that attract South Asian immigrants. The consensus on the forum was that Canada was comparable to the United States as a country that welcomes South Asians and that both countries are more welcoming than Australia. Some forum participants had experienced racism in Canada or the United States, but there was some agreement that racism was stronger in Australia. This amounts to OR and is in no way authoritative. Marco polo (talk) 16:05, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

The article on Melbourne describes the city as very multicultural. It has a high Asian population. Tourism in Melbourne lists the locations of some of the ethnic restaurants. Sounds like a great place to eat out. As for the degree of racism experienced by residents, I agree with the above comment. Melbourne might be an easier place to live as an immigrant than some other Australian cities, but there are many subjective factors. Itsmejudith (talk) 20:06, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Certainly in Canberra there are a variety of Indian restaurants, some specialising in North Indian, Urdu, South Indian, Sri Lankan and also Australian/Indian fusion cuisine. There is a vibrant Indian immigrant community here, large enough to sustain two temples for the Hindu community, as well as a lot of Indians who come here just for study at the universities. The same applies to the other major cities, but smaller towns (including university towns like Armidale) won't necessarily have Indian restaurants. Steewi (talk) 01:09, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

Some reflections: a friend who lived in both Canada and the States thinks Australians are more similar to Canadians in their cultural "feel" (no gun culture for example) and in some ways, being more English. I don't live in Melbourne so can't help much more except to say it's a hotbed for the arts in all forms – the best comedy by reputation is from Melbourne, the tv rock music show, RocKwiz is set in a Melbourne pub, St Kilda's Esplanade Hotel, drama series such as Wildside and Underbelly) and visiting there my experience was an openness and friendly attitude to newcomers and a mad love of culture in all forms including live performance. The city has a lot of public art with sculpture and mosaics in the streets. Googling Indian eateries and Indian restaurants shows a concentration from St Kilda up through the city northwards. There's one in Lygon Street, a famously Italian area. Racism? It depends on which is the latest group to move in who tends to get a hard time from the others (all OR here), but in respect to racial pride, most groups like to keep themselves and their culture distinct from others. Depending on your university, you have probably discovered the international student groups and possibly accommodation designed for an international mix. For tips on being Indian in Melbourne, there's this forum at IndiaGrid.com[14] and maybe others. I'd be looking at lists of temples too[15] and on the net. Enjoy your stay, Julia Rossi (talk) 01:36, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

Saint

I need help identifying a saint. Everything I remember about her:

-name sounded something like Clara
-her husband was murdered
-her two sons were murdered
-her family was feuding with another (thus the murdering)
-she ended the feud, forgiving her family’s murderers
-she lived in either Italy or Spain or possibly Portugal 71.174.16.91 (talk) 09:18, 24 June 2008 (UTC)Charity

Perhaps Rita of Cascia, although her sons were not murdered but died of natural causes. --Richardrj ^{talk email} 10:20, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

That's her! Thank you!71.174.16.91 (talk) 10:38, 24 June 2008 (UTC)Charity

Does Clara sound like Rita? GoingOnTracks (talk) 09:40, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

I suppose... Spencer^T♦C 14:56, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

asya

<Moooved to the language desk here[16] where maybe someone can do Tagalog is it? about Asia?Julia Rossi (talk) 11:11, 24 June 2008 (UTC)>

Bold text== India vs china == lobalizatio

India and china are viewed as global emerging giants.... So will India overtake the chinese or will it be the chinese victory over the indians on issues of religion and communal harmony?

Is the globalisation in india restricted to the wealthy and the rich? Does it trickle down to the poor?? 15:47, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

It's very hard to decide now...only time will tell.--Faizaguo (talk) 16:40, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

"Will India overtake the Chinese?" In what respect?

Globalization gets everywhere and does good as well as bad. Xn4 20:24, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

I would say yes, India will do better in the long run, because China has many problems that India doesn't have:

1) They have a "demographics bomb" due to their "one family, one child" policy. Eventually (around 2030) all the parents and grandparents will be too old to work, leaving the relatively small population of only (grand)children to support them and their children.

2) They lack democracy. This makes government less responsive to the needs and wants of the people and eventually leads to social disruption, as this is the only way for the public to get their government to act.

3) They face severe pollution problems due to a lack of regulation and booming manufacturing.

4) They face a severe inequality of wealth due to lack of basic protection for workers which allows them to be exploited. Real unions are illegal.

5) They face shortages of fuel due to their increasing manufacturing base. This leads them to do things like support the genocide in Darfur in order to get oil from Sudan. However, such actions as this make them unpopular and can lead to sanctions against them.

India does have some problems, like the trouble with Pakistan over Kashmir and with the Tamils in the South, but China has similar problems in Tibet, with Taiwan, with the murderous government they support in Burma, and with Muslims in the western provinces. StuRat (talk) 21:43, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

What does lead you to the opinion that problems 1, 3, 4, 5 are absent or significantly less urgent in India? I'll leave aside the question if 2 is a media-produced Western illusion. In particular,

1) is it really better to have children starving or malnourished instead of a population decline?

3) Have a look at Criticism_of_Coca-Cola#Environmental_issues or Bhopal disaster

4) Please see the 2nd paragraph of Child_labor#Recent_child_labor_incidents

5) Who, pray tell, does not face fuel shortages nowadays, except the one country with the reserve currency enabling a disguised inflation?

Finally, from your illusions regarding India, are you perchance a British citizen? --Ayacop (talk) 09:39, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

As far as 1 is concerned I have to agree. India may not have the ageing population problem, but they have an increasing population that cannot be sustainable in the long run. I think it is extremely difficult to say which will do better in the long run, India has a potential population problem and a real water-shortage problem as their green revolution has been based on unsustainable use of ground water. Arguably they are politically more stable, but this could change if there are mass shortages. -- Q Chris (talk) 09:47, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

Indeed, there already were peasant suicides because even those groundwater pumps couldn't bring up any more stuff. But the groundwater level is sinking in Pakistan---and the U.S., too.

The Republic of India is one of the top twelve nations in the world in terms of biodiversity. Featuring nearly 8% of all recorded species on Earth, this subcontinent is home to 47,000 plant species and 81,000 animal species. Simultaneously, India is home to the largest network of indigenous farmers in the world. Yet biotechnology has led to extreme environmental degradation in the region, threatening to replace its diverse ecology with corporate hybrid monoculture. The original Green Revolution was supposed to save 58 million Indian hectares. Today, 120 million of the 142 million cultivable hectares is degraded- over twice the magnitude that the Green Revolution attempted to save! In the Indian state of Punjab, 84 of the 138 developmental blocks are recorded as having 98% ground water exploitation. The critical limit is 80%. The result has had devastating impacts on the agricultural community, leaving exploited farmers with little choice of action. In the past six years, more than three thousand farmers have committed suicide in Andrha Pradesh, that is six to ten farmers everyday! [17] --Ayacop (talk) 10:30, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

---

The original question appears to assume that the China-India question is a zero-sum game. Try asking, instead, what happens if both succeed in achieving sustainability.

(StuRat provides a quite extensive list of the most negative factors facing China, without actually pointing out that many of them are issues India faces, too. The comment about democracy shows a strongly pro-Western bias; the lack of any recognition that the last 30 years have seen the largest increase in standards of living, for the largest number of people, of any time in human history just confirms that the perspective is what one just might term “one sided.” ) DOR (HK) (talk) 06:32, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

---

Commercial Revolution

Hello...I'm working on the Commercial Revolution article, and there's a question on the Talk Page about the source of this term, and I'm coming up with nothing. Not even a good starting point. Anyone have any ideas? Thanks! Hires an editor (talk) 20:58, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

There's a bit of a problem in that google books reports there's a new Commercial Revolution along every few hundred years: http://books.google.com/books?q=%22Commercial+Revolution%22&btnG=Search+Books but you might try to pin the whole thing on Laurence Bradford Packard who had the temerity to use the The word: The Commercial Revolution, 1400-1776: Mercantilism--Colbert--Adam Smith, 1927 - 105 pages. Of course his date range does not quite match the article's. --Tagishsimon (talk) 23:50, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, I've come across that problem, too, since I've seen that it began in the 1200's and that it began in the 1400's and I'm not honestly sure anymore. I'm thinking of my European History text book from high school here, but I'm not sure that's completely authoritative anymore. I'll be heading out to the local college library to see if I can find this book. Thanks! Hires an editor (talk) 02:53, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

Fernand Braudel, Civilization and Capitalism, gives good context for Economic history of medieval Europe— admittedly a less snappy title. On a recent read-through the present text didn't seem to be a report of published information but a more of a reflected memory of an American high school. --Wetman (talk) 22:49, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

Christopher Columbus's first voyage

Columbus's Letter on the First Voyage to the New World was written on February 15, 1493. It was written to Luis de Santangel covering the narrative of his voyage. A second letter was written to Don Raphael Sanchez whom was the treasurer to king Ferdinand from Aragon. Santangel was king Ferdinand's "finance minister" also from Aragon. Are these definitely two different people with similar titles from the same place at the same time? Columbus's original February 15 letter of Santangel's is basically the same "to Sanchez", except for a postscript at the end that is dated March 14, 1493. I can find material on Santangel, however can not find material on Sanchez. Here on page 375 of this reference it says that Columbus immediately first writes a letter to "the magnificent Don Raphel Sanchez", which appears to be this second person. It would seem he would write first to Santangel (and perhaps he did) since this is the person that was able to get the financing for him. Two persons? What is this title "Don" as otherwise he is always referred to as just "Raphel Sanchez"? Is there additional reference information on "Raphel Sanchez"? --Doug ^talk 21:56, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

According to the last footnote in this, it may have been a translators error. Fribbler (talk) 22:07, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

That is an excellent lead on perhaps solving this issue. The way I understnad it then based on this evidence is in fact these are one and the same person? Treasurer = "finance minister"? The Spanish version giving the name "Santangel" and the Latin giving the name "Sanchez" for the same person. Would that be correct? --Doug ^talk 22:41, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

The way I read it, it seems there were two posts. One "finance minister" (Santangel) and one "treasurer" (Sanchez). When the translator seen that the message was addressed to the finance minister he confused it with the post of treasurer and added Sanchez's name. I could be totally off here, so I hope someone else reads the footnote.Fribbler (talk) 22:52, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

The news of the first voyage spread throughout Europe with enormous speed, largely by means of the so-called Letter to Luis de Santángel...There are several problems associated with the Santángel letter, not the least of which is the fact that Santángel's name does not appear anywhere on the document. The opening salutation is simply "Señor", and the printer's colophon merely states that the letter was sent by Columbus "al escriuano de ración" (i.e., Luis de Santángel) and that it was "contenida a otra de Sus Altezas". The Latin version interprets the holder of this post as Gabriel (or Rafael) Sánchez. It has been argued that Columbus must have sent two letters, one to Santángel and another to Sánchez, but since the texts are virtually identical (allowing for the translation), and since Columbus was deeply indebted to Santángel but not otherwise known to have had any contact with Sánchez, we can assume that Sánchez's name appeared in the Latin letter in error. Ife, B. W. (1993) Breaking the News: Columbus's Letters of 1493. Romance Quarterly, 40(2), 70-1.

—eric 03:13, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

According to M.Hirsch Goldberg's book "The Jewish Connection" (Shapolsky: New York, 1986) p.112, "Of the 120 men on Columbus's three ships on the first voyage, 5 crew members are generally identified as Jews: Rodrego Sanchez of Sergovia, a relative of Gabriel Sanchez who was probably sent along to oversee the investment...." Simonschaim (talk) 07:18, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

Three-armed swastika - Neo Nazi flag?

This is a link to a picture of something bearing similarity to a Nazi flag. It's from the BBC website as you can tell. What's with the symbol? Where can I find out about this design and its origins? --78.150.161.93 (talk) 22:21, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

triskelion - Nunh-huh 22:25, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Close. See Afrikaner Weerstandsbeweging. --Ghostexorcist (talk) 22:31, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

It's not a matter of "close", but of whether he's curious about the symbol (as asked) or the flag (as you inferred). - Nunh-huh 22:33, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

The symbol on the Afrikaner Weerstandsbeweging flag is clearly a form of triskelion. Xn4 22:55, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

An intentional white supremacist echo of the Nazi flag, differentiated just enough to fly it in public, IMHO. Compare the unconnected triskelion. --Wetman (talk) 23:39, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Since it's the BBC, is this perhaps neo-Nazis or white supremacists in the Isle of Man? Nyttend (talk) 21:35, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

No, "[[Saith Iffrica". --Wetman (talk) 22:42, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

June 25

Existentialism is a Humanism

Could anyone explain what Sartre is getting at when he says that man, "in choosing for himself he chooses for all men." I don't understand how it could be said that my choice is a dictum, so to speak; that what I do necessarily affirms the superiority or desirability of it. Am I taking him too literally? I can see how my choice might be a tacit distinction of its inherent superiority, but doesn't that seem a little arrogant? Doesn't what Sartre is saying make it impossible just to let other people alone in their freedom--why does my freedom have to impose anything on them? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.73.103.253 (talk) 03:24, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

Is that the same as John Donne's idea: No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. If a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less, as well as if a promontory were, as well as if a manor of thy friend's or of thine own were: any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee. – after saying the bell tolls for you if you think it does? Seeing it as a dictum is one point of view, another is the ripple effect; not necessarily a hierarchical thing – and contrarily, everyone is his/her own centre at the same time. They are choosing even while you are choosing and being chosen for. You could also say then, that people may be in their freedom (whatever that is), but not alone in it. Julia Rossi (talk) 13:19, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

I read it this way: If god exists, then by choosing something, he thereby grants it value. If god existed, and he was a communist, or married, then communism or marriage would be the best thing. That's where they derive their value. But, since god doesn't exist, the only value that a choice has derives from being chosen by me. I realize, then, my deep responsibility every time I choose, and that in choosing for myself, I'm imparting the only value a thing has. I'm thereby giving it value, not just for myself, but also for the thing (in the same way that god would be making the thing valuable, if he existed). Since I'm putting value in the thing, I should remember the effects that my choices and actions have on others, every time I choose.

That's my reading, anyway, and I would certainly also appreciate hearing others' thoughts on the matter. I asked a similar question once, but clio told me to go read Being and Nothingness. Hardly helpful. Llamabr (talk) 15:28, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

Consider the opposite - suppose we 'choose for others' - ie an attempt to define others - this belittles their freedom if we believe that the thing most in touch with a things destiny is the thing itself.

So with a sense of finality I could say that by choosing for ourselfs/choosing ourselfs we allow others to do the same - giving them the freedom to their own destiny.. No idea if this was what satre meant.87.102.86.73 (talk) 19:51, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

Yes, Sartre was certainly not trying to restrict the freedom on others to define themselves through their choices. I wouldn't read him as saying that when I choose, others better do as I do. Rather, we all feel this responsibility when choosing. So, it's not a freedom limiting philosophy, but rather one that challenges each of us to confront our total and complete freedom. Or, as I say, that's my reading. Llamabr (talk) 21:37, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

Zimbabwe

Why is Zimbabwe in such a media spotlight right now? I realize that there's all this hubbub over the election of Mugabe and such but it's not like this is the first thing to ever be controversial in Africa or Zimbabwe. Is there some key component that I'm just missing? Something that has just lit up the media the way something else in some other African country couldn't? Dismas|^(talk) 08:20, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

The country has been heading downhill fast for probably near a decade now. The history has Mr. Mugabe, a Communist, performing recollectivizations. This involved taking land from many of the white farmers, mostly meeting them out to cronies in his own party (and even when not, giving it to people who couldn't work the land). This caused massive food shortages in a country that used to be at the front of Africa, literally starving thousands, and displaced millions. Inflation has quite literally hit numbers in the range of 10,000,000% per year. It was naturally quite unpopular.

To boot, Mr. Mugabe and his party was in power via strong armed tactics, including falsifying elections, beating up and killing opponents, arresting journalists who dissented, creating arbitrary laws, etc. The situation has been around for a while, but it has slowly gained momentum as more of the Western press has covered it.

The thing that's really brought this into the mainstream was a recent election, where Mr. Mugabe had the lack of wisdom to actually post the poll results from each voting location, convinced he would win. He didn't, and he lost so badly that even a runoff probably wasn't necessary, but the government fudged the figures a little until it was. The government has frequently arrested and beat up the opposition leader with no justification, and killed his followers.

In short, a) the abuse is in an election, which got the press's attention because it was a fraud which absolutely no one could deny, b) it's been going on for a while, and gained some momentum, and c) the abuse and poverty in the country has gotten considerably worse.

As for why this particular country is being noticed: in fact, it's being noticed much less than it would if it were in other parts of the world, by my analysis. However, Africa is changing, and it's not as easy to get away with obvious dictatorship as it used to be, especially when it so thoroughly destroys one of the best economies in the region. The Evil Spartan (talk) 08:43, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

I disagree in part with your analysis, Spartan. Certainly Mugabe is an absolutely terrible leader, but that is not why Zimbabwe is so prominently in the news. Compare for example the case of Hosni Mubarak, the president of Egypt; virtually all the criticisms of Mugabe apply to Mubarak - economic mismanagement, corruption, strong armed tactics, throwing political opponents in jail, arbitrary laws etc. Yet when Mubarak staged fake elections a few years back and jailed Ayman Nour for having the audacity to run against him, the outrage in the West was not at all comparable to what we see now (even though, in general, the Western press is far more interested in the Middle East than in sub-saharan Africa). The reason is that Mubarak is our ally, while Mugabe attempts to defy Western influence. 194.171.56.13 (talk) 11:53, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

Two other reasons for the prominence of Zimbabwe in the news are that 1) the country started out in such a promising direction when it gained majority rule in 1980, and 2) Zimbabwe was something of a model for South Africa when South Africa achieved majority rule under the ANC in 1994, and Zimbabwe's ruler, Mugabe, still seems to enjoy the support of South Africa's ruler, Mbeki. When Zimbabwe achieved majority rule, its ruling party adopted a policy of racial reconciliation and tolerance for the white minority and, to some extent, for the political opposition. Zimbabwe's economy was thriving, and it seemed to be a beacon of hope for the rest of Africa, particularly South Africa. However, as the years have gone by, the ruling party has abandoned this tolerance, ruined the country's economy, and become increasingly ruthless in its efforts to monopolize power. The country is in the news because of its horrific and tragic fall from grace. Few other countries have gone so quickly from being a shining model to being an utter hellhole. To a lesser extent, the country may be in the news because it was a model for South Africa, which seems to have followed in its footsteps. Also, its troubles are spilling over into South Africa because so many Zimbabweans have become refugees in South Africa, and the growth in their numbers helped to spark the recent riots there. Furthermore, South African president Thabo Mbeki's support for Zimbabwe's Mugabe is an ominous sign for the future of South Africa, the latest beacon of hope for the continent. Marco polo (talk) 13:46, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

@194.171.56.13: while the "ally" factor certainly plays a large part, one must not forget that Mubarek might have cheated, but the level of the crime was significantly less. The economic downturn in Zimbabwe has been spectacular, while anything in Egypt cannot even compare. And, of course, Mubarek has mostly refrained from killing his opponents, at least that we know of. I think you will fine newspapers worldwide will mostly agree with this analysis: even the newspapers in SA are harshly critical of Mugabe. The Evil Spartan (talk) 19:47, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

I see. Thank you all for your responses. Dismas|^(talk) 19:49, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

What's the connection between Mbeki and Mugabe then, that the support should be there at all? Julia Rossi (talk) 04:26, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

Commentary on BBC Radio 4 yesterday put it down largely to an imbalance in revolutionary credentials. Mugabe had - and has - an unrivalled status as a freedom fighter against colonial oppression amongst African leaders, and the commentator speculated that this dissuaded Mbeki from open criticism, because that might lead to a backlash which would undermine his own position. One quote (if I recall it correctly) was "Mugabe went to jail for 10 years. Mbeki went to... Sussex University." --Karenjc 23:17, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

Diversity and discrimination

Imagine that you have a team of say young people and want to hire an extra person. You know that if you hire an older employee, he will probably not fit and you want everyone to feel ok in your company. Is the preference for a young employee in such situation a form of discrimination? The example could also be adapted to other categories. GoingOnTracks (talk) 09:55, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

Yes it is discrimination, and in many countries it is illegal. -- Q Chris (talk) 10:00, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

The United States has a concept of bona fide occupational qualifications, which can be used to make hiring selections that would otherwise be discriminatory, and other countries often have similar concepts. It's difficult to see how requiring an employee to be sufficiently hip would qualify as such, though age can be a permissible BFOQ. — Lomn 13:09, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

Disqualifying a person because he or she is too old to "fit" with the team is no different from disqualifying a person because his or her racial background would not "fit." While members of the team are free to exclude the older person from drinking excursions after work (which the older person probably wouldn't want to attend anyway), there is no reason why they can't interact in a professional way with the older person at work. If the team would nonetheless be uncomfortable with the older person at work, then it is a matter of simple prejudice, not much different from racial prejudice, which in the United States is illegal as a basis for hiring decisions. Marco polo (talk) 13:31, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

• This question and answers makes me think about an additional question: does disqualifying a candidate just based in gut feeling a legitimate criterion? Any candidate is either black or white or male or old or young or married or single ... But suppose that the employer don't care about this things and trust his own guts. Does the law contemplate such cases? 80.58.205.37 (talk) 17:16, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

If you're running a business or running for political office you can disqualify a candidate based on whatever you want. Just don't tell anybody you didn't like his tattoo. Mac Davis (talk) 17:31, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

Due to being completely subjective, a gut feeling can't (legally) qualify as a valid reason for anything, employment included. A disqualification based on gut feeling is therefore not due to prejudice or discrimination of the person itself and its characteristics, but due to a subjective sentiment, which is basically just like saying you fired someone because you didn't like them, for no apparent (valid) reason. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ishtar Dark (talk • contribs) 17:34, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

Apparently not liking somebody is different from not liking a woman, a black man, or an old person. Mac Davis (talk) 17:39, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

I don't understand. What didn't you like about Ishtar's explanation? I understood it as: a gut feeling won't be an acceptable argument if the ex-employee tried to take legal action against you and it applies to anyone. Did you perhaps miss the "not"? Zain Ebrahim (talk) 18:26, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

In any case, it's also worth pointing out it cuts both ways. Not liking a man because he's a man is the same as not liking a woman because she's a woman. Not liking a white man because he's white is the same as not liking a black man because he's black. Not liking an old person because he or she is old, is the same as not liking a young person because he or she is young. All of these are examples of prejudice or discrimination. (People often seem to miss this in arguments since they suggest minorities or women are protected classes but discrimination for race/gender applies whatever the race or gender). Nil Einne (talk) 03:36, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

I don't believe that firing someone without reason is the same as not hiring someone without reason. You don't have to provide any explanation about why you didn't do anything, just why you did something. As Mac Davis pointed above: go on with your gut feeling is OK, just don't tell why you met this decision, since it can be always construed as discriminatory since it could be a characteristic of a protected class. 80.58.205.37 (talk) 11:19, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

If you are hiring people for your small business you'll probably get away with it. Just hiring people you come fine along with is perhaps a legit way of making things work. However, if you are a HR manager for a corporation, what sense does it make not hiring people that you don't like? Possibly others will like this people and they can be useful for the company. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mr.K. (talk • contribs) 12:25, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

June 26

Tomari and Shuri

Together with the martial arts styles of Tomari and Shuri it formed the basis for Okinawa-te, which in turn is the origin of today's karate-do.

— http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naha%2C_Okinawa#Martial_arts

Tomari and Shuri are cities. What are they talking about?68.148.164.166 (talk) 00:33, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm reading it that particular styles of martial arts were associated with & hence known by the name of particular towns; and more recently a mix of three specific styles formed Okinawa-te. --Tagishsimon (talk) 00:35, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

How many Indo-Canadians in Great Britian?

Hi. There are some Indo-Canadians who are living and working in United Kingdom. Does anyone know how many Canadian citizens of South Asian/Indian descent who are currently living in Britian? An information link will be great. Thanks. Sonic99 (talk) 01:59, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

You won't find this published anywhere. In principle it could be calculated from the 2001 Census, but you would have to put in a query to the Office for National Statistics and say why you needed the information. And even then it would only be true for 2001. The best way to do an estimate is to find out how many Canadian citizens are living in the UK, then find out from Canadian statistics what proportion of Canadians are of South Asian descent. This would assume that Canadians of all ethnic backgrounds are equally likely to come to the UK to work, which may not be a valid assumption, but it might yield a good enough estimate for whatever purpose you are interested in. Itsmejudith (talk) 14:08, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

Census 2001 data would be of no use, since its ethnicity categorisation does not go down to such an obscure level. --Tagishsimon (talk) 14:14, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

No, the ethnicity categories don't but nationality was asked. Anyway it is not in the published tables and the OP is going to have difficulty making more than a very rough estimate. Itsmejudith (talk) 16:19, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

People of South Asian descent comprise approximately 4% of the Canadian population (see Demographics of Canada#Visible minorities) and Canadians in the United Kingdom number around 70,000. At a rough guess, I would say perhaps there are 2,800 Indo-Canadians are in United Kingdom if, like Itsmejudith said, Canadians of all ethnic backgrounds are equally likely to come to the UK. Astronaut (talk) 23:12, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Italian language

I was wondering about the Disney film / story of Pinocchio in which two of the main characters are named Pinocchio and Geppetto. (spelling?) Do those words have any literal meaning in Italian (or any language)? Or are they some sort of "play-on-words" in Italian (or any language)? They seem like they are either real words or play-on-words, as they are rather odd character names. Does anyone know? Thanks. (Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 04:45, 26 June 2008 (UTC))

The The Adventures of Pinocchio page says: "Pinocchio is from Latin pīnus, "pine" (Italian pino), and the diminutive suffix -uculum (Italian -occhio)." That page also discounts the theory given on the Pinocchio page, that the name means "pine eye". The Adventures of Pinocchio page also says ""Geppetto" is a nickname for Giuseppe." Pfly (talk) 05:09, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

Thank you. So his name means, literally, "small pinewood" ... or, figuratively, "little boy made from pinewood" then ...? (Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 11:08, 26 June 2008 (UTC))

TV coverage of criminal cases

I was surprised this morning that I was able to watch video of the verdict being handed down in the Entwistle murder case. Then I remembered that the OJ Simpson murder trial was also broadcast on TV. In the UK, TV cameras (and photography and audio recording, for that matter) are not allowed in courtrooms. What are the rules in the USA, and elsewhere, regarding the recording of criminal trials? Does it vary from state to state and by the type of court? --Richardrj ^{talk email} 09:06, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

Yes, it varies. Each state has its own rules. Even within a state that allows cameras, each judge can allow/disallow them in his court in any given trial. The general trend is to open the courts more freely and provide more public, open access and more transparency ... and thus, the trend is more toward allowing the cameras in. (Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 11:12, 26 June 2008 (UTC))

Thanks for that. I'm not at all convinced, however, that allowing cameras into courtrooms brings more access and transparency. Courtrooms already have public galleries and journalists are allowed to report freely on cases (unless reporting restrictions are imposed for some legal reason). I have the feeling that broadcasting courtroom proceedings brings in an uncomfortable element of "justice as entertainment", maybe even trivialization. Is there a Wikipedia article on this subject? I can't find one. --Richardrj ^{talk email} 11:21, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

I don't follow you. (1) Wouldn't allowing more (or all) of the public (i.e., millions of people into a limited size courtroom with only xx seats) via camera be the very definition of greater public access and greater transparency? And (2) A reporter comes with inherent bias and human error ... not only in what he reports, but also in what he chooses to report. A camera "tells no lies" and simply offers the facts, without any attached bias. No? Whether the viewing public views this as entertainment is a whole separate issue. (Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 12:57, 26 June 2008 (UTC))

A camera "tells no lies" = the very definition of naive. You should perhaps acquaint yourself with the dark art of the television editorial process. If you anticipate that television will have a nil or solely positive effect on the participants at the trial, I think you'll be sorely disappointed. --Tagishsimon (talk) 13:10, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

Having searched, I think there is not an article along the lines of Impact of television on the judicial process or Television and the judicial process. It's certainly an area tha5t has been studied academically and by governments and judiciaries, so there's no lack of source material. IIRC, Scotland was considering the matter only very recently - last month or two. Ah: "TV cameras have been allowed in Scottish courts under strict supervision since 1992." according to [18]. --Tagishsimon (talk) 11:33, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

Yes indeed. Under Scots law, it is up to the sherrif or judge in question to decide if cameras are allowable. They have almost never agreed to their inclusion.--NeoNerd 22:10, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Mixed black/white Arab

Hi there, I know this question had been asked before but I want to know the question. Why black people and white people have mulatto children while their Arab counterpart doesn't have mulatto children? Does it have to do with Religion or something else? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.64.52.30 (talk) 15:46, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

To the best of my knowledge, "mulatto" is a defined term which refers only to the offspring of one white and one black parent, and then to succeeding generations. The word "mulatto" indicates the child is of a specific mixed-race parentage. (I understand that "race" here is an awkward concept. If someone has a more explicit term that will help the questioner, please feel free to use it here.) There are mixed-race childern, one of whose parents is Arabic, undoubtedly. (I know one personally whose father is a Palestinian and whose mother is Italian.) I just don't know what term there is for this specific mix. I suspect you can safely assume that there are children from almost any mix somewhere in the world. While a strong religious background, where the religion only admits members of a single "race", might keep some people from breeding outside their religious group, even that is no insurance. And certainly that fact that while many Arabs are Muslims, not all of them are, and not all Muslims are Arabs. What limitations exist are more likely to be ones of opportunity than of religion. ៛ Bielle (talk) 17:07, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

At least in the U.S. Census and related matters, Arabs are considered white. So the question doesn't arise. Rmhermen (talk) 19:23, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

The importance of US Census designations notwithstanding (and here [19]is a link for that information), I am not sure that is true worldwide. If the questioner is talking about the US, it may be the answer to the question. "Mulatto" is not a designation in the Census either, which confuses the issue. ៛ Bielle (talk) 21:11, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

"Mulatto" has a quaint ring to it. I was once informed by a man from New Orleans that he was "octoroon"! I told him that I knew the term from old books but had never heard it spoken. (Privately I also thought he'd never pass for black in New York!) --Wetman (talk) 23:07, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

Only white-people town in US

I know this question may sound challenging but out of curiosity, is there a place in US where it is dominated inhabited by white people? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.64.52.30 (talk) 15:49, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

There are lots of small towns in certain parts of the country that are all, or nearly all, white. For example,Summerhill, PA, which I drive through every morning, lists 1 Asian person and the rest white, in the census count. If I kept looking up other nearby towns, I could probably find one that's 100% white. If you require larger towns, then of course it will be harder to find somewhere that's completely white. (I hope, of course, that this isn't part of your "where should I move" selection process...) -- Coneslayer (talk) 15:57, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

I remember reading a section about this in The Largest U.S. Cities Named After a Foodand Other Mind-Boggling Geography Lists from Around the World by Brandt Maxwell, that listed cities with a 20,000+ population with the most whites, blacks, hispanics, asians, etc. I don't have the book, but I remember that it's in Chapter 6. Spencer^T♦C 20:50, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

Slope County, North Dakota had 767 people in 2000, 765 of them white: [20]. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 21:46, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

---

There were Sundown towns... AnonMoos (talk) 22:56, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

There are small towns in the southern U.S. which drove all Negros out in the early 20th century, and which to the present day have no Black residents. Edison (talk) 04:06, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

There are doubtless some towns which once had the "sundown sign" publicly displayed, and which had a history of lynching or other racial violence toward those who did not comply, and which today have no sign and no Blacks in residence, since no one has tested the waters. Edison (talk) 12:38, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

The 2000 US census [21] seems to contain data for every town, including small hamlets. Is someone clever enough with databases to do a search of it and find the largest US cities with a majority of white people and no African Americans? I would include in this towns with white people, people self reported "mixed race," Native Americans, Asians, Pacific Islanders, etc. I found some such with over 2,000 population, and 99.8% white, and no reported African Americans. but there are likely to be larger. In "sundown towns" there would not even be black maids living overnight. Edison (talk) 16:02, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Anonymous witness

How is the defense harmed by allowing testimony by anonymous witnesses? Are measures in place to stop innocent people being convicted? --89.240.243.45 (talk) 16:04, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

This matter was recently the subject of a ruling by the Law Lords in England; see here. From the report: "The Law Lords said no conviction should be based 'solely or to a decisive extent upon the statements and testimony of anonymous witnesses' - and defendants had the right to confront their accusers. This had been a principle of English law since the abolition of the medieval star chamber, a secret court, and the infamous trial of Sir Walter Raleigh, said the Lords." --Richardrj ^{talk email} 16:14, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

And to provide an example of "how is the defense harmed", lack of knowledge of the accuser diminishes the opportunity to investigate possible motivates the accuser might have to perjure themselves, and which could be used to cast doubt on their testimony. --Tagishsimon (talk) 21:57, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

In my experience, anonymous evidence is trash, more often than not. It's no surprise at all that the British police want to be able to rely on it, nor that Harriet Harman has suggested changing the law to enable them to do so. The comment attributed to her, "We must ensure it is not such an ordeal for victims and witnesses that they dare not step forward", is all too typical of New Labour's approach to such matters. In exceptional circumstances, there might be a case for hearing from an anonymous witness, and we shouldn't perhaps rule out the possibility altogether, but we might ask ourselves what the police and Harriet Harman would say to the suggestion that the defence should be allowed to use anonymous evidence. Anyone with any experience of such matters knows that in almost all criminal trials (and in almost all civil litigation, too) someone is lying. Usually, it isn't the police, but they rarely present the whole truth. Give them anonymity for their witnesses, and they would be in clover. Xn4 19:00, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Christopher Columbus's Fourth voyage

According to the Fourth voyage of the Christopher Columbus article it points out Columbus and his men were stranded on Jamaica in 1503. It goes on to say that Columbus, in a desperate effort to induce the natives to continue provisioning him and his hungry men, successfully intimidated the natives by correctly predicting a lunar eclipse for February 29, 1504, using the Ephemeris of the German astronomer Regiomontanus. However, this website points out that it was the tables of Abraham Zacuto. This article says it was Zacuto's son that was with Columbus that advised Columbus to use the tables in the moment of need. Which is correct? --Doug ^talk 21:48, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

You'll only be able to get to the bottom of this if there are good contemporary sources. I see our article cites Regiomontanus from Samuel Eliot Morison's Christopher Columbus, Mariner (1955), pp. 184-92. Morison was a respected scholar, and on the face of it he's more likely to be right than a web site devoted to Zacuto, but if I were you I should take a look at Christopher Columbus, Mariner, and see what's there. Xn4 18:18, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

I see your point on a website devoted to Zacuto. I have come across this also from Famous First Facts in their item 2287 on page 109 as they say Columbus had in his possession an almanac, written by the Spanish Jewish astronomer Abraham Zacuto, that contained astronomical tables from which he was able to calculate the time of the eclipse. Yes, Morison is a respected scholar. Your advice is the correct thing to do to follow up on this. Thanks! --Doug ^talk 21:34, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

According to M.Hirsch Goldberg's book "The Jewish Connection" (Shapolsky: New York, 1986) p.90: "Columbus used Zacuto's accurate prediction of a moon eclipse to frighten the local populace into supplying critically needed food. Columbus's copy of Zacuto's tables, with notes by the explorer himself, is preserved today in Seville." Some details of Zacuto's life as brought in Hirsch's book: Abraham ben Samuel Zacuto was born in 1450 and died about 1525. He was a Jewish astronomer and Rabbinical scholar who compiled tables used as navigational guides by Columbus, Vasco de Gama and others. He was also a professor af astronomy at the universities of Salamanca and Saragossa and wrote an important work on the stars that was translated into Spanish and Latim. When Spain expelled its Jews, Zacuto travelled to Portugal, where he became the Royal Astronomer. Later he had to flee to Tunis where he wrote a history of the Jews entitled Sefer Hayuchasin. Simonschaim (talk) 19:38, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Public Domain Poetry

Greetings giant minds! If I find a work of poetry in its entirety in Wikisource or Gutenberg (e.g. The Waste Land) can I assume that the work is in the public domain? What are the restrictions on using works in the public domain? Thank you! Sappysap (talk) 22:28, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

Yes, you can, unless specified. There are no legal restrictions to public domain works, you can basically do whatever to them. I think restrictions may apply for countries outside the US though. bibliomaniac15 22:41, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

(ec)Wikisource & Gutenberg both work under US law; what is PD in the US may not be PD in all jurisdications (although in most cases it is). There is nothing, from a copyright perspective, preventing you doing anything you wish with the text.

But there are also moral rights attached to the textual works of others, in addition to any question of copyrighted versus public domain. Such rights are not entirely extinguished at death. You should not mistake PD text for text that can be plagiarised and passed off as your own. You should ideally cite its source when using it. There's a current debate on this aspect of the use of PD text at Wikipedia talk:Plagiarism, for the reason that wikipedia policy in this area is being drafted at Wikipedia:Plagiarism. If interested, reading those pages might be as good source of opinion. --Tagishsimon (talk) 22:46, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

The Waste Land will not come out of copyright in the EU until 2035, since copyright lasts for 70 years after the death of the author. 80.254.147.52 (talk) 14:53, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Employment in the USA

What are the highest paid and in demand careers in the U.S.? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.58.144.201 (talk) 23:11, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

Highest paid are executives, CEOs, and politicians (all very lawyer-related). They are not in demand though. Strippers are in demand and can pay a lot if you work in the proper area. -- kainaw™ 01:35, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Politicians? Honestly? The most successful professional sportsmen are also among the highest paid, as are actors and musicians. Doctors and those high-up in the medical profession are well paid, as are judges too —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.221.133.226 (talk) 09:27, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

First, nurses are very in demand. Second, 194.221, the original poster asked by careers so I suspect actors/actresses would not be near the top given the huge variance in their income. Another in-demand career involves extremely mathematically inclined people in the financial services industry (so running models for investments like stocks and such).--droptone (talk) 12:19, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

You may find it helpful to poke around the Department of Labor's Occupational Employment Statistics page here, as well as this page. Several Times (talk) 15:11, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Arabic speakers and translators in general are in demand. Wrad (talk) 17:50, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

June 27

When was the last time the UK Labour Party finished 5th (or worse) in a By-election?

Which they just have in the Henley by-election, 2008. Willy turner (talk) 01:23, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

The last time it happened to one of the (current) major political parties was 1976 - but as this blog (http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/politics/2008/06/henley_analysis.html) points out that was neither labour, nor was it at a time when the Liberals were doing very well. I suspect you'll hear about it via that Guardian-blog during the day if you keep checking it, but otherwise i'm not sure. But it's a long time ago. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.221.133.226 (talk) 09:25, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

I'll hazard a guess that it's never happened before. Perhaps the Daily Telegraph will have the answer for us in a day or two. Xn4 17:58, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Newsnight just said that if anyone knows the last time it happened "could they please let us know". Bearing in mind they will have had a team of researchers who had all day to find out, I presume this means it's never happened before. Perhaps when the Labour party had just been founded? Willy turner (talk) 21:44, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

The Labour Movement had some pretty disastrous showings at elections. However, they were the movement which preceded the actual Labour Party, so I doubt that they've ever done this badly.--NeoNerd 22:07, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

The question's about the Labour Party. Going back to its early years (let's say from 1900 to 1920) it didn't fight every constituency, nor even every by-election. Indeed, to see five candidates at a by-election before the Second World War would have been unusual. Xn4 00:31, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Korean War deaths

What estimates are there of total Korean deaths during the Korean War (the article does not appear to be helpful AFAICT, listing only "millions" as the number of civilian deaths)? This site appears to give a rundown of several estimates, are there any others, and how does the reliability of the various sources compare? How does this compare to the population of Korea before the war? --58.28.72.2 (talk) 04:45, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

This site lists total Korean population in 1950 to be 30,316,911 (North at 9,471,140 and South at 20,845,771).--droptone (talk) 12:28, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

sorry Coudlnt' get an anwsoer on entertainment

Is 大戲, or Cantonese opera, in A flat Major?68.148.164.166 (talk) 05:32, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

I know that I saw this question with at least one answer attached to it, perhaps on the entertainment desk. The short answer was No, since it uses a different scale. Several Times (talk) 15:04, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Geography

What are the differences and similarities between fold and block mountains? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Invisiblebug590 (talk • contribs) 07:09, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Have you read our articles on fold mountains and fault-block mountains? They are fairly clear.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 07:38, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Poverty

I'm trying to find stats on poverty/homelessness in Boston. Has it been declining or rising? And how does it rank against other US cities? Please link sources. Thank you. 71.174.16.91 (talk) 14:27, 27 June 2008 (UTC)Sola

Here's a little something: a 2006 article about homelessness in Boston. Fribbler (talk) 14:33, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Novel written by a female American Indian

Maybe 10 to 12 years ago a book was written by a female American Indian that described how she died, but came back to life, and how beautiful the experience was. My wife is going batty trying to remembere the name of this true story. Can you help? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.3.135.130 (talk) 16:10, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

How does the story Roweena Teena and Tot and the Runaway Turkey end?

I am trying to find out the storyline from a favorite childhood book, Roweena Teena and Tot and the Runaway Turkey, written by Fannie Blumberg in 1936. I would love to find a copy to buy at a reasonable price as well. 71.170.2.44 (talk) 16:13, 27 June 2008 (UTC)JaneDianne

Can't find the ending but you can buy it here. It's not cheap, as it's an antique book at this stage. Fribbler (talk) 16:17, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Barrack Obama

Did Barrack Obama ever have the Engish name Harry and it was later changed to Barrack Hussein?

It was in an emailed editorial I received this week, and I don't know the reliabilty of the source.MLK1330 (talk) 17:47, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

He was known by the nickname "Barry" as a child... AnonMoos (talk) 18:59, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

As AM says, he went by "Barry" for a while, but it is certainly not the case that he gave himself the middle name "Hussein". I get the impression he's wanted to be prez his whole life, so he probably would have chosen something more like "Jefferson". --Sean 19:11, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

He inherited the given name "Barack Hussein" from his father. --Allen (talk) 19:13, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Be aware that anybody who is trying to get you to decide the next leader of the country based on their name is deliberately trying to avoid rational argument with you, and is hoping that you'll go along with the most basest of prejudices, avoiding all real issues. It is no different than someone saying "Don't vote for McCain because he has an Irish name, and thus he probably will do whatever the Pope says." Total nonsense, and a purposeful attempt to hoodwink you. Be suspicious—have a GOOD reason for picking your candidate, whoever you pick. This stuff is important. --74.223.170.187 (talk) 02:17, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

People can't be blamed for the names that were given to them, but on the other hand, Gary Hart raised suspicions among some over the fact that he changed his name from "Hartpence" at age 25-26... AnonMoos (talk) 03:45, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Why would that raise suspicions? He just did it because he didn't like the sound of his surname. And fair enough. If I had a surname like "Hartpence", I'd probably be tempted to change it too. --Richardrj ^{talk email} 06:38, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

For a number of people who thought Gary Hart was shallow and slick, his changing his name and then sort of trying to conceal it confirmed their views of him... AnonMoos (talk) 21:50, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Hartpence isn't that bad. Imagine if Hal Linden had gone into politics. --NellieBly (talk) 19:00, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

That Vishnu temple

Know that famous and giant temple to the Hindu god Vishnu with those golden rocket-ship like towers on it? The one that is now a buddaisst (o disrespect,just don't know how to spell it) shrine? I can't find the article on it.

PS Why in the Vishnu article Info-box does it list Vishnu's "planet"? Is Vishnu an alien? Tutthoth-Ankhre (talk) 19:14, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Angkor Wat? I don't know if the towers used to be covered in gold, but they certainly aren't now. --Allen (talk) 19:58, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Also, I don't know the answer to your second question, but googling for "Vaikuntha planet" seems to turn up some promising links. --Allen (talk) 20:07, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Or even pressing this link Vaikuntha ... it's the planet where he lives? (like heaven - does that make jesus a spaceman??)87.102.86.73 (talk) 20:27, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

I think it may be a mis-use of the "planet" field in the info-box. Other deities like Varuna, Bṛhaspati, Chandra, Surya, and Budha list the astrological planet which they are associated with (Venus, Jupiter, the Moon, the Sun, etc.), not where they live. -- 128.104.112.147 (talk) 00:13, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Yes, Angkor Wat! The service here is quick and effective! Tutthoth-Ankhre (talk) 23:31, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Can a 15 year old be sentenced to life imprisonment in the UK?

and if the answer is 'yes'. Is it for life? or it's a "life imprisonment". 190.49.100.145 (talk) 19:53, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Yes, if they are found to have commited a murder, with full knowledge of the act and consequences. Life imprisonment is in fact the only sentence available to the judge in cases of murder. This odes not specify how long it is untill parole is offered, however. In cases of children, they could be paroled afer only 8-10 years. However, a life sentence could really mean life, as it did for Dr Harold Shipman, before he killed himself.--NeoNerd 22:05, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

In English law a minor is usually sentenced "to be detained At Her Majesty's Pleasure" rather than to Life imprisonment. In both cases the judge at the trial can recommend a minimum period before parole is granted. AndrewWTaylor (talk) 10:28, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Accessible/Newcomer's Classical Music

Hello,

I am looking to start listening to classical music, but there's such a wide variety of types and endless amounts of compositions. Can anyone recommend a good, accessible starting point? I don't want to be driven away by an arrangement that is just to complex or not appealing to a newcomer. I have heard that George Lloyd's Symphony No. 5 is a good place to start, but I was wondering what everyone else thought. Thanks! Mike MAP91 (talk) 20:52, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

You might want to invest in a compilation album such as this one, which has lots of popular and accessible pieces. Also have a listen to Classic FM. --Richardrj ^{talk email} 21:09, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

I just put on classicfm, as per Richardrj's advice, and listened to 30 minutes of classicfm's political correspondent talking about Wendy Alexander. Is there a channel that plays just music, without DJ's, without news, without weather, without talking -- just music? Llamabr (talk) 14:08, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

It's a mindfield of different tastes but - peter and the wolf makes a good introduction to the different instruments.87.102.86.73 (talk) 21:40, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Personally, I would reccomend Beethoven's Ninth Symphony. I started here, and I loved it. You'll recognise a good deal of it, which is a help and I personally think that it's one of the greatest pieces of music ever written. :)--NeoNerd 22:11, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

I have found Bach's organ pieces, in their (apparent) simplicity, to be quite accessible. User:Krator (t c) 22:46, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

(ec, partial overlap with Krator's comment above) Well, as long as we're promoting personal favorites, I'll put in a word for Beethoven's Razumovsky Quartets. Seriously, though, you may find works like string quartets, works for solo instruments (Bach's keyboard works, Mozart's piano sonatas, etc.), and the like, less "complex" in that what's going on musically is easier for the untutored ear to pick up. In my younger days, I owned a multialbum set that surveyed the history of Western music from the Middle Ages to the twentieth century; perhaps your local library has something of the sort. Pick out something that appeals to you and start exploring the composer or period from there. Deor (talk) 23:03, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Beethoven's Third, Fifth and Sixth symphonies. A compilation of Mozart pieces, especially the operas. Bach's Brandenburg Concertos and the Cello Suites. Vivaldi's Four Seasons and other works by Vivaldi. Elgar's Cello Concerto. Works by Ralph Vaughan Williams. Verdi's Requiem. A compilation of works by Saint-Saens. Handel's Water Music and Music for the Royal Fireworks. Itsmejudith (talk) 23:33, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Deor's idea of a historical survey is a good one. You have about 400 years of musical development to get to know, and if you think of it as a single style you'll just be confused and overwhelemed (as your question suggests). Read a bit about the main historical periods of Baroque, Classical, Romantic and (for want of a better word) Modern, and the composers that worked in each. They are very broad categories, but they're useful as a starting point. On another dimension, consider music by "instrumentation" - instrumental music (e.g. solo piano), chamber (e.g. string quartets), orchestral (e.g. symphonies), vocal, operatic, etc. In both dimensions you'll probably find you enjoy some more than others. That's fine: you don't have to like all of it all at once. Many people find that their musical taste changes as they grow older, or as circumstances change. There's a lot of great stuff there to discover - enjoy the journey! AndrewWTaylor (talk)

Thanks for all the help everyone! I will read about the various periods, and go from there. I'll probably start with a sample of various types, as well as some solo piano pieces. From what I've heard so far, I think I like the solos (piano most) as well as the orchestral work. I do play Alto Sax in my school band, so I guess that trained my ears somewhat. I'll start off the way everyone suggested: with a broad sample. However, I will also pick a few solo works to start with, and then move onto some symphonies per your suggestions. Thanks again! Mike MAP91 (talk) 13:23, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

June 28

right of way

what are the laws concerning walking in creeks and streams in ohio and kentuckyCuriouspatty (talk) 03:02, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Population Info. Demographics of Argentina‎

I have added information (Usually always erased) on the Amerindian ancestry of Argentines. (regarding 56% having some/mostly Amerindian ancestry). A source has been provided, yet deletion continues and the threat of requesting lock-down from editing this article has been implied. The source is a study done by the "Servicio de Huellas Digitales Genéticas y Cátedra de Genética y Biología Molecular de la Facultad de Farmacia y Bioquímica de la Universidad de Buenos Aires" In Spanish: http://coleccion.educ.ar/coleccion/CD9/contenidos/sobre/pon3/index.html... and yet the information has been deleted non-stop. Help requested! Thank You. Cali567 (talk) 05:47, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Oper

What scale is 大戲, or Cantonese opera, in?68.148.164.166 (talk) 07:30, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Cost of British Royal Family

According to this article, the British Royal Family costs the public money, but it was my understanding that they actually paid the UK government more money through their property holdings (or whatever) than they received? Is this article therefore misleading or am I mistaken? ----Seans Potato Business 10:49, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Since the questions were raised several years ago by MP Alan Williams, a Labour member of the public accounts committee, the finances of the royay family have come under public scrutiny. As a result, the royal family now pay tax. The Civil List article, suggests that the List costs about £37m per year but the treasury receives about £185m in tax from the Crown Estate. I'm not sure the BBC's article is misleading though - the tax receipts from the Crown Estate would still be received even if the Civil List were to be abolished. Also, under a pound a year is good value for the economic boost received from the million tourists who visit the UK and expect to see some royal pomp while spending their money here. Astronaut (talk) 12:29, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

War and Peace

Is there any translation of Tolstoy's "War and Peace" that is considered definitive or the best version ?? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.5.206.57 (talk) 12:03, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

My wife swears by the Pevear/Volokhonsky translations of Tolstoy, if that helps. They're apparently quite good. --74.223.170.157 (talk) 13:12, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

I second that. Pevear and Volokhonsky are the best Russian to English novel translators I know. In this case, among other things, theirs is the first translation to leave all the French untranslated (except in footnotes). The different uses of French and Russian by the characters is rather important in the novel. Algebraist 14:01, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

That makes me wonder: I have War and Peace, translated by Constance Garnett, sitting on my shelf at home, but haven't gotten around to reading it yet. Is this translation any good, or should I purchase the above version because mine is rubbish? Thanks for the answer. GreatManTheory (talk) 17:35, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Cavalry

From Cavalry:

“ The final cavalry charge by British Empire forces occurred on 21 March 1942 when a 60 strong patrol of the Burma Frontier Force encountered Japanese infantry near Toungoo airfield in central Burma. The Sikh sowars of the Frontier Force cavalry, led by Captain Arthur Sandeman, charged in the old style with sabres and most were killed. ”

Has anything been written specifically about this event? User:Krator (t c) 12:23, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

"Stab-in-the-back" (World War I)

I posted my query about this text, which I find ambiguous as written, on the article's talk page. Would appreciate an answer here or there, please, ideally with an accompanying edit (unless the confusion is mine alone...). -- Deborahjay (talk) 12:28, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

(Answer provided there by Parsecboy) -- Deborahjay (talk) 13:52, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Paper blockades

I want to expand the article on blockades (as well as writing a Dutch version of it), but I have some problems trying to find out when paper blockades were abolished. Some sources mention it happened at the Congress of Paris (1856), but the 1911 Encyclopedia Britannica mentions it happened "by international agreement in 1812". However I can't find which this international agreement this would be. It doesn't seem to be the Treaty of Ghent since the US only asked England to stop their paper blockade. - Dammit (talk) 13:24, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

I think the 1911 article means that the Continental Blockade of the Napoleanic wars was ended in 1812. There's a list of 1812 treaties at Category:1812 in law. Check out the next page to the Blockade article on wikisource. It agrees with the Congress of Paris (1856) mention. I hope this helps. Spencer^T♦C 20:17, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Ireland

when did the first hurling match in croke park played and what was the score? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.106.219.177 (talk) 16:20, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

The article on Croke Park states that "Since 1884 the site has been used primarily by the GAA to host Gaelic games, most notably the annual finals of the All-Ireland Senior Football Championship and Senior Hurling Championship." Neither this article nor the official webpage does explicitly state the year of the first match, the teams or any score and two other links are dead. There is a contact, The G.A.A. Museum St. Joseph's Avenue , Croke Park , Dublin 3 , Ireland , Email:   gaamuseum@crokepark.ie, which may be useful to you. --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 19:40, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

flogging

when was the last person to be flogged in the british army? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.148.204.188 (talk) 22:18, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

All I can find on Wikipedia is the death of Private Frederick John White in 1847 1846, which apparently led to calls for reform. Algebraist 22:34, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Some random website claims that abolition was completed in 1881. Algebraist 22:39, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Is there a place on this earth that men never stepped on?

87.116.154.181 (talk) 22:40, 28 June 2008 (UTC)