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January 11

MBA

I have just completed my High School from Ontario and now its time to move to college. I am intended to choose Business program. but before that I want some knowledge about this course and professional scope for this program. what are the courses included in this program.

Well, looking at our MBA and its sources is a good start. If you're curious about what classes you would be taking I would take a look at colleges you are interested in attending and inquiring them about their MBA programs. A look at different programs should give you an idea what the average MBA classes are like. —Mitaphane _talk 06:08, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

An MBA is a master's degree, and are only available to those who have already completed an undergraduate degree. Much of the time, they are taken by people who already have substantial work experience and are looking to move up into a management role.

If business is your bag, maybe consider an undergraduate degree in economics or accounting. Frankly, I'd rather remove my own teeth with a grinder, but I'm not you...--Robert Merkel 06:13, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Edentulism is for you! V-Man737 06:20, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

That depends on what area of "business" you want to get into and whether you're planning to study at a university or at a community college. (Note: Canadian university interviewers and future employers, who will be older than you, will likely prefer that you call university "university", not the American "college". Americanizing your vocabulary will work very much against you if you plan to remain in Canada.)

"College" is a small school. "University" is a collection of colleges. That holds in BE as well as AE. "going to college" is a common phrase used in many countries, and not limited to the U.S. Some people prefer a small college over a University. For instance U.S. news ranks the top liberal arts colleges[1]. A university, on the other hand, has many colleges, such as at the University of Toronto[2], and sometimes there are smaller subdivisions calles "Schools" that may be part of a particular college or just affiliated with the University, but not yet a "college".

In Canada, only universities grant degrees. Colleges just grant diplomas and certificates, which take up to three years. To go into graduate or professional school (both of which are mainly done through universities), you generally need an honours (four-year) bachelor degree. Note that there are some "applied bachelor degree" programs split between college and university, which claim to offer the best of both worlds. NeonMerlin 20:00, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Regarding your display of anti-U.S. Bias. Tolerance gives you more options and opprtunity, and bias gives you less. Especially bias based on politics, rather than reality. Atom 19:39, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

It's much easier to market a specialized B.Comm (in accounting, finance, marketing, human resources, or public relations) than a general degree in business. If you take a general B.Comm you'll be expected to study the above topics as well as English, law, political science, sociology, and most likely mathematics. If you're planning to go to university in Eastern Ontario you'll likely also need French. If you plan to work in a head office setting you'll need excellent written and spoken English and, in Eastern Ontario, excellent written and spoken French.

If you're planning to take a community college course in business administration, you'll probably study office procedures, human resources, bookkeeping, and basic corporate law. --Charlene 10:02, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Business is an area that is highly regarded. Primarily an undergraduate degree in business is pragmatic and gives you a broad range of opportunities for jobs. A graduate degree, such as an MBA underlines your skills and can give upper level management opportunities when you have more job experience. Business is probably the most general, and most useful degree of any you can pursue. Pretty much all business degree candidates get jobs out of school. This is in contrast to say psychology, sociology, anthropology, language, woman's studies, journalism or english degree cadidates who usually can't get a job with their degree, and go on to graduate studies, or get a job in a different field, often business. With a business degree you can work for a large corporation, or for the government, or for a small company, or be an entrepeur and start your own business, or anything in between. You can work in areas such management, marketing, sales, production, accounting, MIS (business computer systems), human resources, or operations. This wealth of opportunities pretty much guarantees you career opportunities. In addition to this, most business jobs, depending on area, have moderate to above average salaries right out of school, and through your career. The highest paying jobs available of all jobs are often CEO positions for a business. The only jobs paying more than CEO's are people who start and operate their own businesses. An job candidate with an MBA from a top school, with no experience can often start in the $60K range. Less well known schools may be in the $45K range. People with graduate degrees in some of the other areas mentioned above may still have problems finding jobs, and when they do, would be lucky to get close to $45K. Usually going on to a PhD, and a research and teaching can get them in the $60K range.

Careers that can pay better than business usually are other professional areas (M.B.A. is a professional degree) such as Law(J.D.), Medicine (M.D.,. D.D.S), Engineering (P.E.). Even so, some professinals in these areas are lucky to start in the $50-$60K range. Surgeons, and other areas of medicine can earn well above $100K, depending on the country. It is not uncommon for someone in Surgery or Radiology to make $500K or more per year, and up after starting work. But consider that those people have to have considerable expertise and talent, and have to go to school and train often for 6 to 12 years after their undergraduate 4-year degree. (often resulting in having school loans in the 100's of thousands of $.)

In summary, many people feel that business has more job opportunities in more diverse areas with solid career income, than any other area. Atom 14:22, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

U.S.. Constitutional issue

Would you please define The meaning in today's terms the meaning of this phrase taken from The U.S. Constitution, Artical III, Sec. 3 regards Congressional Power to declare the Punishment of Treason:

"... but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood ..."

What did this mean to the Founding Fathers stated in today's terms?Fjheart 04:17, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

From Article_Three_of_the_United_States_Constitution#Section_3:_Treason, "Punishment for treason may not "work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except during the Life of the Person" so convicted. The descendants of someone convicted for treason could not, as they were under English law, be considered "tainted" by the treason of their ancestor. Furthermore, Congress may confiscate the property of traitors, but that property must be inheritable at the death of the person convicted." Friday (talk) 04:26, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

How utterly sensible. Thank providence for the US Founding Fathers' sense. This from a Subject (not yet a citizen despite my forebears having lived here for 1000+ years) of Her Britannic Majesty - desperately awaiting a UK Constitution, and Citizenship.

FWIW, the UK has considered you a "British Citizen" (under the current definition) since 1983, prior to which you would have been a "Citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies" since 1948. Oh, and see Constitution of the United Kingdom. Shimgray | talk | 00:40, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

A trivia question..

Some people said it resembled a bird house. It was a 20-inch square box, and when erected in Salt Lake City in 1920, it was the first of its kind in the world. What was it? Arun 59.95.40.118 05:01, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

A Google search turns up a number of results for stoplights. Dismas|^(talk) 06:02, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Just curious... Does it have anything to do with Philo Farnsworth? V-Man737 06:12, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

the problem with traffic lights is that - though introduced for the first time in Salt Lake City - that was as early as 1912 - with the interconnected versions out by 1917. S0 1920 would not be the right year. Thanks a lot for the help: Dismas And V-man, No. I don't think it has anything to do with Phio.. too early a date for his time. Thanks for the help though Arun 59.95.40.118 10:47, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm guessing whoever asked Arun the question got it wrong. <snide>Probably got the info from Encyclopedia Brittanica.</snide>

>.<

Three-part hyphenated names

Okay, couldn't think of a better title. There are so many of these, "Suc-u-Bus" (from Starship Titanic) and... I can't remember more, but examples: Explode-o-Matic, Zap-o-Matic, etc etc. Do you get my drift? I am just wondering where do these names come from? WHo on earth came up with'em? Linguistically they seem extremely out of place! 213.161.190.228 10:38, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Good question. I'd like to know more. They are a /little/ like another form of words common to english, of triplets such as "let and hindrance", "will and testament" (and I can't remember more as I write), which I vaguely remember refer back to a time when french & english was spoken in england ... the phrases were made up of the english and the french word. "Belt and braces" would be another example, albeit not with the same derivation. Only reason I mention these is that they may have habituated us to talk in triplets. --Tagishsimon (talk)

I don't know who invented them, but the structure is quite-tmesis-tastic. meltBanana 13:26, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Seems to me to be a 1950s version of our modern buzzwords. V-Man737 01:19, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Not quite the same thing but similar is of course the prevalance of the TLA, or three letter acronym. Vespine 03:47, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Alumni yearbooks...

Would like to know how I can access yearbooks from Oxford University UK, for years 1965-1970? Thank you 11:24, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure if these even exist in the same way that they do in the USA. If they do, they certainly won't be available online - you'd have to enquire at the university library. --Richardrj ^{talk email} 11:30, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Most likely, if there are yearbooks, there'll be a seperate one for each Oxford College, so you may have to enquire at the specific college(s). Laïka 12:12, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

strength of A-level exams candidates?

does anyone know the number of A-level exams candidates? kindly give reference Is it the world's largest education board?

Related question: What is an "education board" in this context? Searching Wikipedia gave no obvious candidates. Rmhermen 16:50, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

OP Original poster possibly means examination board. A-level exams in England (for example) are set by several different boards, and a candidate can easily be sitting exams from two or more boards (in different subjects) at the same time. Gandalf61 17:45, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

a logo

i was trying to make a logo of a hostel. but i cannot think of any symbolic representation to signify that the logo alone can, to some extent, imply that its the logo of some hostel. what do you people say?

The international symbol for a hostel is a simple equilateral upright triangle, usually with some extra decoration added; in England and Wales for example, the triangle is green, with the letters "yha" underneath, so the "h" forms a tree trunk and the whole thing resembles a pine tree. I'd recommend having some variation on a triangle, such as a bed inside a triangle, or a knife and fork either side of a triangular plate. Laïka 12:29, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

On Ordnance Survey maps, the triangle is red for a YHA hostel. With the decline in the YHA network and the rise in the number of independent hostels, some maps show independent hostels in another colour. (I'm not sure how or whether the OS indicates independent hostels.) Either way, the triangle symbol seems to be universally understood.--Shantavira 15:03, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

The OS shows non-YHA hostels as pinky-red squares, actually, although the symbol represents any "bunk house, camping barn or other hostel". Laïka 15:11, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

The logo of the International Youth Hostel Federation, which has many Youth Hostel associations all over the world as members, can be seen here, under the name "Hostelling International". It is protected IP, so you cannot imitate it in a way that can lead to confusion, but the basic idea of an upside-down triangle by itself cannot be protected. Most national YHAs use this shared logo, while some have their own logo, like England & Wales (as mentioned above), Germany, and Pakistan, often used in conjunction with the international one.  --Lambiam^Talk 23:15, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia Editing, my IP Address Username

Whenever I make a change on Wikipedia, or answer a question here, it markes my IP address. What I have noticed, however, is that if I click on that IP address, it brings me to a page of topics I have supposible edited. I do not edit WikiPedia often at all, and I would like to know how I have so many edits. Is it possible that someone has the same IP as I do? Or should I assume that my ISP is cheap, and has a single IP address for all users? Thanks for your answers --- (No Username) January 11, at 8:39AM

You can assume that you have a shared IP but your ISP may have many such numbers. Some users get a random-ish IP each time they log in, making it hard for them to track their own contributions. Another good reason to get an account on Wikipedia. On a related note, we did, recently, block most access from a certain country when trying to block a single vandal so in some cases an ISP may have only one IP. (I forget which country it was.) Rmhermen 16:47, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Did you read the blue box at the top of User talk:207.69.138.12? EarthLink reassigns the IP address each time a User logs off. User:Zoe|(talk) 16:48, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

(The country was Qatar.)

Meanwhile, ask your computer what it thinks your IP address is. If it's different from the address being recorded on Wiki, then somewhere along the way, your messages are passing through a proxy server or at least NAT (Network address translation) and that's transforming your IP address, quite possibly into a shared IP address.

Atlant 17:52, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

The simple solution to this is to get a username and to log on before editing - something done automatically if you're using the same computer each time you do it. --Tagishsimon (talk)

Question/Rant

Why do some people reply to complaints or even criticism of someone's work with "Well, can you do any better?" Does being better than me at something automatically make someone good enough at it? For example, I can't drive a car, or any motor vehicle more powerful than a go-kart, to save my life. But if some bus driver at the bus I take to work every weekday botched up and I ended up lying in the ditch I'd sure as heck complain to the bus company. JIP | Talk 18:35, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

It's just a rhetorical device, a technique used to evoke an emotional response. Looks like it still works very well :) --Tagishsimon (talk)

I actually asked what sort of fallacy this was in the RDs before, it's somewhat of a reverse appeal to authority. Search around, you might find the thread. --Wooty Woot? contribs 03:30, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes, specifically it's an ad hominem attack, which means attacking the person instead of their argument. In this case, the person is attacked based on their own inexperience in the field. StuRat 21:48, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Its like this thing with animals where they always compare animals to us, to show how much better they are, but they aren't, it's just the way they are and the way we are :(

.50 BMG to the head

What would happen to the victim's head if they are shot from point blank range by an M82 Barret with a .50 caliber BMG round? Also, what would happen to the victim if they are shot at the waist/torso by the same round from about 200-400 yards away? Thanks. The Ayatollah 23:06, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Gunshot wounds are quite harmful, and .50 BMG is a rather huge cartridge. However if you're looking for gory descriptions of injuries, I'm afraid you're in the wrong place- this is an encyclopedia. Friday (talk) 23:11, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Oh no, I was just wondering because I heard that .50 BMG could leave an exit wound the size of a basketball. Is this true? If so, would this be caused by a hollow-point or a Full-Metal jacket? The Ayatollah 01:09, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Jeez, that's a frickin' huge stick of metal to have going through your head at supersonic speeds. And if anyone has a head bigger than a basketball, I'm sure they'd still be scared of getting hit by one. I understand the .50 BMG is mainly used in armor-piercing or materiel sniping. However, I heard that the terrorist in Washington, D.C. was using or at least owned a .50 rifle? V-Man737 01:35, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Our article says that no crimes have been committed with one and that the gun used to fire them "[w]ith lengths usually between four and five feet and weighing 20-35 pounds, they are unwieldy and virtually impossible to conceal on one's person." Rmhermen 03:09, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

For the record, where is the article on that (DC Terrist) guy? I completely forgot his name (quite appropriately, I suppose). V-Man737 03:38, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

You're talking about the Beltway sniper attacks, right? Dave6 07:50, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

That's the one! Props. I feel silly for not finding it myself... V-Man737 01:36, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

At point-blank but not necessarily right-against the victim's head it could quite possibly take much of the head off, I would imagine (having taken a single course in forensic anthropology, I should note). With something that large and with that much force it would have a very, very large effect. Even smaller bore ammo used in large pistols can have limb-detaching effects. ---24.147.86.187 03:21, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

You may find this site of interest (americansniper.org). I seem to think that has some data of interest but my Mommy won't let me see the site here at the office. I can see (americansnipers.org) but that is probably not what you want. --Justanother 20:18, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Neither of those sites have anything of interest. Are you serious that your mother won't let you see some enthusiast group's website? .. --froth^T 07:46, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

He probably means his office has some sort of filtering software. 206.176.119.180 16:56, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Right. One of those sites had a VERY graphic shot of what a M82 Barret would do to a head at long range. Think watermelon and machete. --Justanother 16:31, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

The weapon isnt necesarily a rifle. There are 50 cal pistols. Rya Min 20:02, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

.50 BMG and .50 AE are totally different. 206.176.119.180 16:56, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Operational Substance

What is that yellow paint-like substance that doctors often put on people during an operation/surgery? Is it for sterility? --Proficient 23:06, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

My guess: povidone-iodine disinfectant; the best we have on this would be at Iodophor. --Tagishsimon (talk)

Also see Betadine. Atlant 01:26, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes it's an antiseptic --froth^{T C} 03:35, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

If you are thinking of an emulsion with a paint-like consistency and a bright yellow colour, that would be acriflavine emulsion (as opposed to dirty brown, watery, povidine-iodine). It is moderately antiseptic, and a common use is for packing wounds or tissue spaces which the surgeon wishes to keep open, using gauze steeped in acriflavine. It is not used for skin preparation at the site of surgery. I do not know what the emulsifying agent is, but it makes a wonderful finger paint :-)--Seejyb 14:00, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. --Proficient 22:08, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Wish to verify existance of purported historical monument

While her son was serving in the U.S. Army in Vietnam (1968), my wife's aunt received a post card from him. The face of the card shows a picture of a monument with one American soldier helping another soldier who is apparently wounded. The statue of the two soldiers rests atop what appears to be a granite block. There is a separate plaque in front with an inscription which appears to be Vietnamese language. The reverse side of this post card reads; "GIA DINH: Monument of army physicians". I have searched the web as well as the Wikipedia site and have not found any information or reference to any such monument.....nor could I find anything about a Vietnamese town named "GIA DINH". I served in Vietnam in 1964-1965 as a combat medic. In neither my time there nor at any time afterward, had or have I ever heard of any such monument.

My question is; Do any of you good folks at Wikipedia have knowledge of any such monument or would you have any means at your disposal to research this matter to either confirm or deny the existant of any such monument? Your assistance would be greatly appreciated.

G5guy 23:25, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

So far I've found that Gia Định is difficult to type on American keyboards (XD!), but it seems to be an ancient name for Ho Chi Minh City. That's pretty much as far as I've gotten... V-Man737 01:51, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Not so ancient, Gia Dinh was a town on the outskirts of Saigon, and capital of Gia Dinh province.—eric 03:34, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

See map here (about 3/4 of the way down) Shimgray | talk | 00:44, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Anti-heroes

I am looking for any sort of "worksheet" on how to write anti-heroes- sort of guidelines for formatting them. All I need is the list of "rules"; however, I have had trouble finding these online. I have only found essays that are lengthy and don't actually tell you how to write an anti-hero. In short, I'm looking for a "How-To..." guide.

If you know of any websites that have these "worksheets", please let me know.

Thanks!!! 70.238.177.209 23:37, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure I understand your question correctly. Let me try to paraphrase what I'm getting: You are looking for a worksheet (or some kind of guideline) about how to write about or develop the character of an anti-hero? The article is very relevant and useful, in my opinion. "and then breaking the rules" is where I really stumble in my understanding. Do you want a list of rules, and then our opinions of the way to properly break them? (I am an expert on the proper method of rule-breaking, BTW.) ;-) V-Man737 10:04, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Oh yeah, the other question! If I met someone (first time) who was trying to commit suicide, my first reaction would be curiosity. I'd ask them why they're doing it. After that, depending on their answer, I'd either try to convince them not to do it, or I'd help them out._{;_; (what a horrible thing to say)} or I'd force them to stop. V-Man737 10:09, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

School Buses

Whats the purpose of the white flashing light on the top of the school bus? Is it a safety feature for us to be able to seem them?

Flashing lights are there to draw attention and warn others, especially in traffic circumstances. Generally the idea is to warn of school children (in this case) when the lights are flashing.Robovski 00:32, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

In the case of the white light on top, it's to make an already-incredibly-visible object even more visible. It only does so at night. --Carnildo 22:22, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Not in my jurisdiction! They let those things off whenever they're moving. 68.39.174.238 17:10, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes, it is for visibility. As a side note, most school buses use amber-yellow turn lights in the rear also for greater visibility. Most studies have shown that amber-yellow rear turn signals are more easily seen than red ones. Many states in the US require amber-yellow rear turn signals in their laws for school busses. The rational is that a precious cargo is riding the school bus, hence making the bus as safe and visible as possible. Zeno333 08:36, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

January 12

Yellow School Buses

The question above reminded me that I've always wondered why, in U.S. movies/TV, school buses always seem to be coloured yellow. Is this really the way it is, or is it just a filmic stereotype? If they are indeed usually yellow, is the colour in any way regulated or is it just a voluntary tradition? If it is regulated, is this on a state-by-state basis, or is it a federal matter? What is there to prevent some school from having, say, a purple bus? JackofOz 00:09, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Check our article on school bus yellow. — Kieff 00:25, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Hats off to Wikipedia yet again! Thanks, Kieff. JackofOz 00:29, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

From the Ohio Revised Code, Chapter 4511.77:

"(A) No person shall operate, nor shall any person being the owner thereof or having supervisory responsibility therefor permit the operation of, a school bus within this state unless it is painted national school bus yellow and is marked on both front and rear with the words "school bus" in black lettering not less than eight inches in height and on the rear of the bus with the word "stop" in black lettering not less than ten inches in height."

I assume other states have similar legislation. Note that there are laws governing conduct of drivers near school buses (you have to stop a given distance away when the school bus stops to pick up or drop off students). If the school bus doesn't look like a school bus, the other drivers wouldn't know to stop, and the laws would be unenforceable. And, of course, kids could get run over by those non-stopping drivers. City buses in the U.S., though, come in all kinds of colors. -- Mwalcoff 03:57, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Yellow is also used in Canada (not surprising as many Canadian driving laws and practices follow the US). Here's an excerpt from the Highway Traffic Act of Ontario: "school bus" means a bus that, (a) is painted chrome yellow, and (b) displays on the front and rear thereof the words "school bus" and on the rear thereof the words "do not pass when signals flashing". (In other words, if a bus doesn't look like that, other drivers don't have to give it the special treatment they do to a school bus.) --Anonymous, January 12, 2007, 06:04 (UTC).

So, to call the roll, what color are school buses in other countries, if not yellow? Edison 23:32, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

They don't have school buses in Europe, as far as I know. The kids walk, take public transportation or have Mom or Dad drop them off. -- Mwalcoff 23:52, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Mexican school buses are white, I believe, or at least the couple that I've seen. They look like American ones painted white. --Wirbelwindヴィルヴェルヴィント (talk) 00:15, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

New Zealand school buses are just standard public transport buses with a "school bus" sign. 203.109.174.164 06:21, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

All women Communial living in Africa

Hi! I am interested in which African country this ancient practice occurs(ed) in. There is a specific name for these compounds which I am interested in knowing. I apologize that I do not have more information to support my question(s). This style of living is done in mud compound style and the compounds can be quite large and women are only allowed. Thanks71.17.102.1 00:36, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

• Do you perhaps mean compounds for different wives in a polygynous system?--Pharos 00:48, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

spelling

quick question;: i have noticed that when researching lethicin, i am also seeing it spelled 'lecithin'. are they one and the same? thanks chomer01:28, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

"Lethicin" has about 16 thousand Google hits. "Lecithin" has over 4 million. They are one and the same thing, but "lethicin" is not the correct spelling. -- JackofOz 01:35, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

If you look up the word in one of the online dictionaries (e.g. http://www.thefreedictionary.com/ ), then you will see that the word comes from the Greek word for "egg yolk", which is "lekithos" (in "ordinary" letters). This shows that it was probably first discovered in the yellow of eggs. You will often find that the origin of a word is described in Wikipedia, so you can look out for it in the article (in the case of Lecithin is is hidden away a bit). It is a good habit to look up the exact meaning and etymology (where it comes from) of a name when you are researching the topic. --Seejyb 21:55, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

How do I find all zip codes within 3 miles of US coastline

I'm interested in sending out a mailing to people who live near the coastline (i.e. people who live near the water). Any suggestions on where to find a compiled list of zip codes near the water?

Thanks,

BrianBbutler100 02:32, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

It's a GIS problem, but not a particularly hard one. You need software such as ESRI's ArcGIS or ArcView, and you can download the zip code polygon shape file(s) (public domain) from a number of sources, as well as the files for the water boundaries (IIRC, they come canned with purchase of ESRI software). Then you create a 3-mile buffer on the water boundary and query for all zip code polygons that intersect the buffer. It gets slightly more complicated depending on whether you want to include the Great Lakes, the Great Salt Lake, any other lakes, major rivers, and so forth.

There might be a website running ArcIMS that will let you do this on-the-fly in a web browser, but I've never seen one. Yet. It's a service waiting to be built. Antandrus (talk) 04:36, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Vintage

Was 1983 a good year for potatoes? NeonMerlin 02:38, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

In any particular country, or worldwide? --Tagishsimon (talk)

I hope you don't mean the same way it was a good year for wine. 1983 is when Clemson developed a disease-resistant sweet potato, as a Google search dug up. Nothing very relevant came up when I searched "1983 potato famine," though... V-Man737 02:47, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes, it certainly was. See 1983 in root vegetables. -THB 18:27, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Yeah tell him to look at a page that doesn't exist, IDIOT! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 86.145.216.224 (talk) 17:02, 18 January 2007 (UTC).

How rude! User: THB was just being ironic... Abyss42 22:30, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Cure for homosexuality

Is there a cure for homosexuality? If not, is one likely to be made in the near future?--216.164.200.253 02:40, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Some bigots live in hope of such a thing. Some 'religions' anticipate a cure. Many of the rest of us don't think there is anything to be cured. I would not live in hope of any development from this position if I were you. --Tagishsimon (talk)

A more relevant question is, is there a cure for bigotry and discrimination? — Kieff 02:47, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Homosexuality is no longer considered a disorder per the 1994 release of the DSM-IV; however, there are some licensed practitioners that offer treatments for those who are homosexual but do not wish to be. V-Man737 02:50, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Do the treatments work? (By the way, many thanks to V-Man, and, <personal attack removed - User:Zoe|(talk) 17:36, 12 January 2007 (UTC)>.)--216.164.200.253 02:52, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

(Let's be civil.) I've not looked into such treatments, being heterosexual and all; I've mostly heard about them. this Google search at a quick glance seems pretty pertinent to your question. V-Man737 02:56, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. I'm sorry for the rude language; I shouldn't "feed the troll".--216.164.200.253 02:59, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Surely you can see why asking for a "cure" to something which many people do not consider to be a "disease" is controversial in the first place (for many it is along the same lines as asking if there is a "cure" for being Black or Asian). If you are not looking to be seen as a troll yourself you should think about how to be more neutral in your wording. Or else don't feign offense. --24.147.86.187 03:10, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Don't force your bigoted open-mindedness on me. ;) --froth^{T C} 03:24, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

If you are interested in a very good discussion of all of the different issues at stake in things like "cures" for homosexuality, Francis Fukuyama's Our Posthuman Future contains a remarkably thoughtful discussion of it from a neoconservative. --24.147.86.187 03:08, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

I always thought of X-Men as having that controversy embedded in metaphor; i.e., X-Men: The Last Stand makes a clear point that, although there is a method for reversing mutations, the mutation of itself isn't necessarily a disease. A very recommended movie. V-Man737 03:21, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

IMO the mutants should have just taken the cure. I mean come on, they were freaks... --froth^{T C} 03:31, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, good point, although their real motive to fight it was probably because otherwise there wouldn't be a movie. V-Man737 03:41, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

There doesn't seem to be any conclusive evidence that the treatments work; although there are some claim that they do work, or that they work to some degree. The problem with asking if there is a "cure" is that it assumes that the cause is genetic or otherwise biological; it is highly possible that socialization plays a role. I think the OP may also have misinterpreted Kieff's comments as intentionally offensive. BenC7 09:33, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

It seems to me that any success seen under such treatments will be due in a very large part to whether the person wants change. Will is a big part of that kind of thing (hence my inclusion above, not of homosexuals in general, but those who do not wish to be so). V-Man737 09:55, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

"Will" alone may be insufficient to make homosexuals want to go straight, it may require Will and Grace. StuRat 21:09, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

That is possibly going too far in the other direction; assuming that it is totally environmental. I'm sure that if people could change their sexual orientation just by trying really hard to do so, that there would be virtually no homosexuals in the world. BenC7 10:44, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

I assume you mean, of course, excepting those who want to be homosexual? (Now we're getting philosophical...) V-Man737 12:10, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Probably the techniques for changing any behavior, desired or otherwise would be effective here. The Catholic church has been moderately effective at enforcing celibacy (curing heterosexuality), and the same techniques are probably equally effective for curing homosexuality. (There is that unfortunate side effect with both of priests abusing children and sleeping with their parishioners -- but that is incidental, and has only occured in small numbers) I guess no method of trying to make people be what they are not can be completely effective. 16:41, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

While the behavior can be stopped, the homosexuality cannot be eradicated. Homosexuality involves a desire for romantic and physical interaction with others of the same sex. There have been interviews with people who have undergone the "cures" advertised on the web and elsewhere. Those who considered themselves "cured" admitted that it is a constant struggle for them not to act on their desires and that they live with a degree of frustration. Many who undergo the "cures" end up reverting to the behavior because of their strong and arguably innate desire. A strong case can be made that it would be better for the happiness of individuals desiring a "cure" for their homosexuality to instead recognize that homosexuality is part of who they are (god's gift to them, in spiritual terms), and to accept that it cannot and need not be "cured". Marco polo 18:59, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Before.

File:Michaeljacksonmugshot.png

After.

I would guess that homosexuality could be "cured", in most cases, with a combination of behavioral therapy, hormone treatment, brain surgery, and genetic modification (the last two parts aren't yet available). However, this in no way means that such a thing is desirable. Consider Michael Jackson, who has largely "cured" himself of being black by extensive plastic surgery. Is this really a good thing ? I don't think so. StuRat 21:18, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

All these questions relate to cures for homosexuality - but to put a slight slant on the question, are there any examples of a heterosexual man wanting to be "cured" so that he can become a gay man?

I've not been able to find any examples, but I'm sure if a heterosexual wanted to be homosexual, he certainly could. [edit] I, however, am happy to be a lesbian trapped in a man's body ;-) V-Man737 00:07, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

I would disagree with those here who seem to suggest if it's learned behaviour it's likely you can change it. I personally believe it's part learned, part inborn (whether genetic per se or as a result of conditions in the womb or even after birth) as with IMHO all behaviour. We don't really know how much of it is learned. But even if it were a high percentage learned, it appears to be fixed fairly early on and in quite a number of cases very firmly fixed so it will be very difficult to change this behaviour and IMHO any treatment which may be able to change it probably wouldn't be ethical even with consent Nil Einne 16:03, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

The cure for homosexuality is the same as the cure for heterosexuality. -THB 18:17, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

It's my personal belief that very few things are actually inborn traits, and sexuality is not one of them. However, homosexuality is just as acceptable (at least, to me) as heterosexuality. I wouldn't say there's a "cure" because there's no disease. Anything can change, though, if approached the right way. Heterosexuals become homosexuals all the time, and the it's common the other way around as well. .V. (talk) 01:55, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

WP article link by id

Is there a way to link to the current version of an article without using the proper text of the article title? Ideally, the goal is to link by alphanumeric id, such as:

en.wikipedia.org/foobar.php?id=00928312345345

As an alternative to linking by the usual method. The rationale for this is related to unicode limitations on some text editors, and also as an alternate way of creating links on an external website that mangles URLS. NoClutter 03:15, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Since I'm not sure how to tackle this question, I highly recommend the Village Pump, under Technical or Miscellaneous. V-Man737 03:32, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Actually the Wikipedia:Help Desk is probably a better place. Anchoress 04:10, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Also IIRC the mediawiki wiki has a reference desk --froth^{T C} 04:05, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

I remember it to be possible, but can't remember the syntax. Agathoclea 12:05, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes, it is possible. To get the ID of, say, Chuck Norris, see http://en.wikipedia.org/w/query.php?titles=Chuck%20Norris – it's inside the <id> </id> tags. Now you can link to Chuck Norris by using http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=x&curid=162617. –mysid☎ 13:38, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Contacting other users

Hey, i was just wodnering if i could talk to anybody on usertalk, not just people i know. If so, how do i find out they're usernames to contact them, i would like to make some new friends... but i'm not sure how to. Can anybody help me out here????? *~~LoVe~~LiFe~~LiVe~~* 07:17, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Probably not. Try chatrooms or ICQ. BenC7 09:34, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Hmm, Wikipedia is probably not the best place to approach new people. Too formal, if you ask me. Try internet forums, chatrooms or even social networking websites instead. — Kieff 10:18, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

The primary purpose of Wikipedia is not for social interaction, so one should only really communicate with other editors on their talkpages in reference to Wikipedia related content. However, there is a social element to being a Wikipedian. For example, there is Wikipedia:Reach out where people get involved in helping others deal with stressful issues, Wikipedia:Birthday Committee where people offer birthday wishes and Wikipedia:Village pump, where people discuss WP related issues. You may meet people at these and other projects (see Category:Wikipedia community) and build relationships with them if you share similar interests within the project. But be aware the primary purpose everyone is here is to write an encyclopaedia, and if that isn't your primary interest, you should probably make new friends elsewhere. Good luck. Rockpocket 10:03, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

There's also the annual Wikimania conference, where you can meet other Wikipedians. The 2007 event will take place in Taiwan. --Richardrj ^{talk email} 10:45, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

You may also find meetups may be organised in your... Just noticed the above user has been indefinitely banned, probably because she's supposedly a 11 year old girl. Sorry but I recommend you look at other channels. But do take great care in what you tell other people and remember to ask your parents before meeting anyone in person. Nil Einne 15:55, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

If you come across someone that you would like to get to know better then see if they have e-mail enabled and send them an e-mail. If they do not then ask them if they would like to enable it. If not then "no means no", I guess. There is nothing wrong with meeting people here provided that you keep the off-topic socializing off the wikipedia site. --Justanother 20:24, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Flashing lights in old sci-fi movies

I've just watched another old sci-fi movie on TCM and once again saw these old mainframe computers that fill entire rooms, with whirling tape spindles, monochrome monitors, giant printers, and these odd panels with flashing lights. Like grids of random flashing lights creating non-stop patterns. Anyone know if these lights ever had any use on mainframes, or did they just look authentic to the viewing consumer of the period? Sandman30s 10:33, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Indeed they did; the famous Blinkenlights sign refers to to these lights, which dates back to at least 1955. Laïka 11:18, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks very much for the term. Researching Blinkenlights further did answer my question. The original usage was to actually monitor machine/CPU register states but grew out of usage as signals became faster than the time it took to blink a LED! Answers.com says that 'recent computer designs of note have featured programmable blinkenlights that were added just because they looked cool' - this is quite interesting. In darkened rooms it apparently leads to a hypnotic state :) Sandman30s 11:43, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

The light panels of FROSTBURG, a CM-5, on display at the National Cryptologic Museum

Blinkenlights were originally an essential diagnostic tool used both to debug and to repair computers. But they lost popularity for a variety of reasons:

• Computers became much more reliable

• Programming techniques evolved and with the rise of canned operating systems, not everyone needed to program computer input/output operations; done correctly once, it need not be done again and you didn't need to debug the I/O code.

• Computers became smaller so that the light panels were bigger than the involved circuitry.

• With the vast increases in the density of integrated circuits, it became harder and harder to access the internal circuit nodes to which the lights would have been connected.

• With the rise of government regulations controlling the amount of electronic noise that computers could emit, it became impractical to bring high-speed signals out to a light panel (where they could each emit electronic noise).

But as Sandman30s points out, some machines have still deliberately included lights just for the "coolness" effect. The best example I can think of was The Connection Machine with a potential 64,000 LEDs in a fully-populated machine.

Atlant 13:51, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

i could not readily find online references to support my recollection, but I think that the PDP 8 and IBM 1800 had priminent flashing light panels which reflected the ongoing internal processes. Edison 14:42, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

The "Straight-8", 8/I, and 8/L had lots of lights. The PDP-8/E, /F, and /M had some lights. The PDP-8/A and the LSI machines had none to speak of. The programs I wrote for PDP-8s all had light patterns.

Atlant 22:38, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Supposedly they go back to ENIAC to make a press conference more informative. See the last paragraph of this page http://www.upenn.edu/almanac/v42/n18/eniac.html meltBanana 16:35, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Another reason why blinking lights, especially red blinking lights, are avoided these days is that they can cause an photosensitive epilepsy attack in susceptible individuals. There are still some flashing lights around, but not nearly as many as in previous decades. StuRat 20:47, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

At Digital Equipment Corporation, blinkenlights were eliminated for the reasons I cited. Photosensitive epilepsy played no part whatsoever in our decision(s) to eliminate lights; it was all a question of costs/benefits.

Atlant 22:43, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

• OK, lets talk blinkenlights. The first computer I spent a lot of time in personal communion with was an IMSAI 8080. I made extensive use of the blinkenlights, out of necessity. I could recognize the pattern my programs made when they were running right. I could use the blinkenlights to examine memory -- stop the computer, examine data at various addresses, and so on. I think the main reason they went away is that computers got too fast for the patterns on the lights to be useful. (Damn, I just found out I can still remember the bootstrap code from 30 years ago...21 00 00 DB FE E6 7F C2 03 00 DB FF 77 23 C3 03 00...) --jpgordon^∇∆∇∆ 03:33, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
  • I have to argue strongly against the claim that the light display was just a public relations gimmick. Any part of the circuitry on early computer might stop working at any time. On the relay (GE Mark IV) and vacuum tube (EENIAC) computers, a bad contact or burned out tube could stop a portion of the computer from working. On the next generation, a flip-flop was a plug in card made up of discrete transistors, and a poor connection could interfere with functioning. The light display showed that the machine had all registers and processors functioning. This was a useful diagnostic tool when it sat chugging for a while and did not start printing the solution. There was no easy way then to tell whether you had created an endless loop or whether a portion of the circuitry had stopped working. The reliability per flip-flop increased markedly with large scal integration on integrated circuits. One of my professors related what it was like to use a 1952 computer: you wrote a program in machine language, went to a building and punched paper tape with your code. You submitted it at another building, where a technician fed it into the computer. Nothing whatsoever ever came out. Edison 23:39, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

All of this talk sounds authentic to me, perhaps someone could volunteer to update the blinkenlights article and categorise it under a mainframe category? If not, would an admin let me know if it's appropriate for me to update the article with points from this thread? Sandman30s 07:43, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Currency rates question

How do currency rates work? What causes a currency rate to increase or decrease? Who, or what, is in the end responsible for the official daily value of a currency rate? Is there an officially appointed person or board, or is it a somehow automatic process? JIP | Talk 11:20, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Have a look at Exchange rate. --Richardrj ^{talk email} 12:36, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Our article Exchange rate is rather intimidating, and the questioner wouldn't be able to get the answer to his/her questions without following several of the links. The short answer is that there are two main types of currencies: floating and fixed or managed. Floating currencies (such as the U.S., Canadian, Australian, and New Zealand dollars, the pound sterling, the euro, and the yen) "float" on currency markets. That is, their value is determined by the bids and offers made by buyers and sellers on the market. If there are more buyers than sellers at a given price, they will bid up the price until enough buyers drop out that the number of buyers matches the number of sellers. This raises the currency's price relative to the currency of the buyer. Conversely, if there are more sellers than buyers at a given price, the price will drop. It is not exactly an "automatic" process, but it occurs rapidly and without much intervention. There is no one managing it, no one is really "responsible", and buyers and sellers collectively determine the end price with their bids and offers. Fixed or managed currencies come in two main varieties: There are pegged currencies, which are legally set at a given value in relation to another (typically floating) currency, such as the euro or the U.S. dollar. These currencies retain this value relative to the reference currency for days, weeks, or even years, until they are allowed to float or legally pegged at a different value by the authorities (national government or central bank) in charge of the pegged currency. Then there are currencies with a managed float, such as the Chinese yuan or renminbi. These currencies are allowed to float on the market, but only within limits set by the authority (national government or central bank) in charge of the currency. Marco polo 16:31, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Also note that having fixed currency rates, just like any fixed price, doesn't really work in the long term, unless the fixed rate happens to be close to the natural floating rate. Let's say, for example, that the Chinese gov wants to take over the US car market by making their cars far less expensive. So, they lower the value of the yuan relative to the US dollar so that each car costs only US$1000. The result is that they have to subsidize the cost of the car for thousands of dollars. Let's say the car actually costs US$10,000 to make, then they end up subsidizing the cost of each car by US$9000. At such a ridiculously low price, they would sell cars not only in the US market but around the world (even if they only exported to the US market, they would be re-exported from the US). They might very well sell a billion cars a year at such a price, which requires a US$9 trillion subsidy per year. They currently have currency and gold reserves of less than US$1 trillion. Also, not only cars, but everything else they make would have similar 90% plus price subsidies and would sell globally. The Chinese gov would be hard pressed to keep up such a subsidy rate for even a few weeks. A lower subsidy rate could be maintained for longer, and you eventually get a subsidy rate low enough that they can collect the amount needed in taxes from non-export activities. However, this subsidy rate is only a few percentage points, so they can't maintain a currency rate much lower than that permanently. StuRat 20:39, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

The way in which the Chinese government is able to control the price of the renminbi is not through subsidies as such, but in the following way: Because China has a large trade surplus, much of it with the United States, its currency would probably rise versus the U.S. dollar if it were allowed to float. This is because it receives many more dollars for its exports than it needs for its imports. Without government intervention, Chinese businesses would be selling many more dollars for renminbi (to pay their workers and other expenses) than they would be buying. However, they sell their dollars to the local bank, which in turn sells them to the Chinese central bank. Selling those dollars on the market would drive the dollar down relative to renminbi, which would raise the dollar price of Chinese goods and make them less competitive. So the Chinese central bank holds onto those dollars instead of selling them, and invests those dollars in U.S. securities (typically Treasury bills). This keeps the renminbi from rising relative to the dollar, keeps the price of Chinese exports low in dollar terms, and also supports U.S. consumption (for example, of Chinese exports) by keeping U.S. interest rates low and making it easy for Americans to borrow money. However, this leaves China with a constantly growing supply of dollars, now approaching US$1 trillion and growing by more than $100 billion per year. The problem is that they can't do much with these dollars. They don't want U.S. exports, and there is some question about the long-term value of U.S. government debt when the U.S. government runs huge deficits every year. At some point the game will have to stop, and the renminbi will probably rise agains the dollar. Marco polo 21:26, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

1. Supply and demand
2. The market
3. Sometimes, see currency board, and sometimes, see #2 -THB 18:19, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Laptops/Mice

Who invented the finger mouse pad on finger laptops? How do the laser mice work on computers?216.253.128.27 16:39, 12 January 2007 (UTC)nicholassayshi

See here for some info on "laser" mice. Also Optical mouse#Optical mice and Touchpad. No info on the inventor of the touchpad yet, though. --Justanother 16:45, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

The first touch pad was invented by George E. Gerpheide [3] in 1988. Apple Computer was the first to license and use the touch pad in its Powerbook laptops in 1994.[4]

--Justanother 16:47, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

See also Multi-touch for a (rather stubby right now) article on some newer directions in fingerpads. Friday (talk) 16:51, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

And of course everybody loves the TrackPoint! --froth^T 18:31, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Actually I hate the TrackPoint. .V. (talk) 01:57, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

What are the flakes in butter flakes made of?

Hi all. I was wondering what the flakes in "butter flavored flakes" are made out of. This product bothers me, as it looks to have the exact consistency of sawdust. Much help appreciated ! 69.164.192.120 18:20, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Then enjoy some disturbed reading of the patent for butter flavored flakes! 50-95% cotton seed oil and soybean oil. Yum. Taste enhancing agent is monosodium glutamate, salt or spices. Flavor is butter flavor, garlic flavor or butter and garlic flavor. Flow enhancing agent is tricalcium phosphate or maltodextrin or both. Excellent. Dinner's sorted, then. --Tagishsimon (talk)

What is John Browning holding?

What model of rifle is John Browning holding in this photo? — Zaui (talk) 18:41, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

I hope you don't take our silence as ignoring you; I've just spent the last half hour scouring Google for glimmers of information. ;_; I am totally stumped! I remember holding a similar gun before, only the one I held was a revolver. Other than that, it was practically identical to what Johnny is holding. I think the revolver was called the "Law Man" or something similar, having been used mainly by law enforcement around the turn of the century. V-Man737 00:37, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

I tried the Google route also with similar results. I was just hoping some gun historian my happen across this and have an answer. — Zaui (talk) 07:03, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

That looks like the Browning semi-auto .22 rimfire rifle; loads from a magazine in the buttstock, ejects from the bottom. You can see the slot in the buttstock where the rounds are loaded when you slide the tube back out the buttplate. My memory is hazy on this part, the cocking handle may be that bump on the bottom a couple of inches in front of the trigger guard, or it may be a plunger on the front of the forend--Remington had a similar design, and I get them confused. I think the Chinese are making a copy of the Browning design these days, maybe I can track down a link for you. I just moved, so my Blue Book is packed away (somewhere in >25 cubic feet of boxed up books in the garage) and I can't get you a model number right now. scot 18:24, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

The bump on the bottom is the cocking handle; Browning makes a model BL-22 that is similar, but that's not it, since it was introduced in 1969 and Browning died in 1925. My guess is that the BL-22 is an updated version of the one he's holding. Numrich Gun Parts just calls it the "Browning Semiauto .22" http://www.e-gunparts.com/productschem.asp?chrMasterModel=0630zSEMI-AUTO%2022 and lists old and new model parts, but doesn't have a date. Looks like it was made in both .22 Short and .22 LR. Also, the loading port is on the righthand side, so it looks like the picture is mirrored... scot 18:42, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Looks like a Browning Semi-auto 22 to me, which was based on patents Browning filed in the 1920's. See: Browning Semi-auto .22 Rifle. Yaf 03:50, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks to all for the replies. I'll update the photo caption appropriately, and flip the photo when I have the chance. — Zaui (talk) 15:50, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

wikipedia

is wikipedia falling apart. it seems to be over—Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.23.77.75 (talk • contribs)

Is there something going on that led you to this conclusion? From where I'm standing, Wikipedia seems quite healthy. If there is a specific issue that concerns you, you might consider taking it to the Village pump, or the help desk, despending on the concern. V-Man737 22:25, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure this really is the sort of question this area is designed for, but irregardless the website seems to be well maintained by its users and unless there is some funding-issue (there is currently a drive for donations showing above all pages (I think you can dismiss it if you don't like it being there) preventing the site continuing it will survive as long as the users update and maintain it. ny156uk 22:24, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

*grumble grumble* irregardless *grumble grumble* GeeJo ^(t)⁄_(c) • 13:27, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Actually, I'm not sure this is a question. .V. (talk) 01:59, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

I also hear, the Sky is Falling. Better watch out! —Mitaphane _talk 05:09, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

And it can't get up! V-Man737 09:46, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

In many ways, it sure seems to be. There are administrators (and their sycophants) advocating for unilateral control over content on the reference desk. -THB 18:21, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Jumping on moving car

If i have a very large car and I was to paint a box on the floor around my feet and assuming the car is traveling at 100km/h, and I jump up in the air and land back down, will I still land inside the box i drew or will I be out of the box. I think that I will still be in the box, because I was moving with the car, but someone said that something in your ears will disorientate you or something. Hustle 21:52, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Hmm, if you jump in a strange way, your cochlea might give you some troubles, but really the only thing I can see keeping you from landing in that box would be if you jumped out of the car and back into it, exposing yourself to the air that you and the car are traveling through. The air resistance would drag you back in relation to the car a bit. Oh, and also if the car changes velocity while the jump is in progress, the relation would be compromised. But really, I can't think of anything your inner ear would significantly affect in this scenario. V-Man737 22:17, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps Inertial frame of reference will help. Friday (talk) 22:20, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

If the car is moving in a straight line at constant speed, and assuming you jump straight up, yes, you will land back on the same place. You can try the experiment yourself by riding a vehicle where there's room to stand up -- a train, a bus, maybe a plane -- although I won't be responsible if you get in trouble for annoying the other passengers or painting boxes on the floor!

If the vehicle is begins braking, accelerating, or turning while you are in the air, then you will land ahead, behind, or to one side of the box. If it is already braking, accelerating, or turning when you start jumping, you will have noticed that you were unable to stand upright -- that's why city buses have poles for you to grab onto -- so now the answer depends on whether you jump straight up or in the direction that feels like straight up.

--Anon, January 13, edited 01:31 (UTC).

melbourne winners

dear sir. I have a list of all the melbourne cup winners from 1861 to 2006. i am tyeing to put togeather a history of the melbourne cup as i said i have a list of winners and dates from 1861--2006 i would like to-be able to purchase or down load a photo of each horse to go with this list is this possible to down load or purchase,hope you can help me

regards

barry doorey

Barry,

List of Melbourne Cup winners is an excellent place to start; although Wikipedia is rather deficient on pictures of them at the moment, several of the blue links to the individual horses in that list do have pictures. Another good place to search would be in the Wikimedia commons. And for future reference, anything you download from the Wikimedia foundation is free, and the content is licensed under the GFDL.

Sincerely,

V-Man737 22:47, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

You might want to specify that images come with their own licenses and might not be GFDL. They might not even be 'free'. For something like the Melbourne Cup, older images probably would fulfill the first criterion so they could be fair use Nil Einne 15:49, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Times obituary

I'd like to get hold of a 1995 Times obituary to use as a source. What's the cheapest way to do this? Cheers. — Matt Crypto 22:14, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

There are sites that sell newspapers from 'your day of birth' so you could find the day you want and purchase a copy that way. Alternatively I think the British Library have a copy of every major publication produced in the Uk, i've not really looked but I would expect their site could help you track down a copy. Alternatively have you contacted The Times directly and asked? They may be quit happy to provide you with a computer-based copy and it doesn't hurt to try. ny156uk 22:21, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

If direct contact isn't the right answer, then where I live, it would be "go to the central reference library"; they'll have the paper on microfilm and anyone can print off a selected part of a page from the microfilm for about the price of a regular photocopy. So ask at a public library near where you live; they'll know where to send you if you can't do it right there. --Anonymous, January 13, 2007, 01:20 (UTC).

Their website, like most major newspapers, has an archive. Goes back to 1985. Seems pretty cheap — at max it is £1 per article with a minimum of £10 total. So figure out 10 things you might like first (you probably don't have to use them all at once, though). They are also among the papers archived in Lexis Nexis, which many libraries and universities have access to. --24.147.86.187 01:31, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

And for articles up to 1985 there's the Times Digital Archive, which has scanned copies of every issue back to 1785 and is a fantastic resource. Unfortunately it's a subscription only website, but most libraries should have it. -- Necrothesp 01:54, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

You'd actually be surprised at how efficient libraries are at this sort of thing. .V. (talk) 05:26, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your answers. I've discovered that my local library has access to it, and I was also pointed to Wikipedia:Newspapers and magazines request service. — Matt Crypto 12:26, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Hawaiian Language Textbook

I'm trying to teach myself Hawaiian, but I only have two dictionaries that I purchased in Hawaiʻi and some references online. I would really like a textbook and possibly a workbook, but I don't know where I could buy them outside of Hawaiʻi (I live in western New York and likely won't be visiting Hawaiʻi again for a year and a half, when I'll be looking to move there to get my Masters degree). Does anybody know where, online or otherwise, I could buy Hawaiian language textbooks/references? Thank you. --〈 Miriam The Bat 〉^{(Talk) (Contribs) (Sign Me!)} 22:50, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

this looks promising, as this eBay search manifested (also finding audio guides to learning). If you want a larger selection, this Google search looks like an awesome starting point. V-Man737 01:44, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

What bass is featured in this picture?

Can anyone tell me? Link: http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/5830/screenshot136cb9.png (snapshot of Tina Weymouth taken at a Talking Heads/Tom Tom Club concert in 1986). Thanks. 202.10.86.63

Weymouth owns a custom-made Veillette-Citron, and if you compare it to the bass in this picture they seem to match; the body and headstock look very similar. She plays a Fender Mustang, a Gibson Triumph and a Hofner, but my guess is that the Veillette is pictured. Wolfgangus 01:07, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Hotels in Savannah

Is there an age requirement to rent a hotel room for a night in Savannah Ga, (US)? I thought you had to be 21, but recently I've been hearing that that's not completly true. I'm going to be heading down there from NC, and being able to stay the night instead of making the 4 hour drive back that same day would definitly be nice. If anyone has any idea of that, or if it is different per hotel, then perhaps some suggestions of places to stay? Thank you very much. Chris M. 23:08, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

In my experience, age limit seems to be a function of individual company policies. Most hotels I have stayed in were paid for with a credit card, no questions asked of age. So if you have a credit card, I don't think age will be a hindrance. Keep in mind that with this answer I am severely violating WP:NOR. V-Man737 00:18, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Understandable, I was kind of requesting that. Thank you very much for your response. 65.185.199.79 01:34, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

You should call ahead first. Some places won't rent rooms or cars to people who are younger than 25, even if they have credit cards and honor students. It is usually for insurance purposes. But yeah, it's usually an individual company policy, not any sort of legal mandate. --24.147.86.187 01:43, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

January 13

video

How can i acheive the following goal: take a video that is featured on the internet and get it saved to my computer?

I think you'd need some kind of video editing program. In your browser, you can right-click on the desired video, and then click "properties." A window will pop up that contains the path and file name of the video, usually ending with a dot and three letters (in the same fashion as www.***.com), known as an extension. Depending on the extension, the video editing software may be compatible with the file. My answer will probably be inferior to that which the folks at the Computing RefDesk would give, so I suggest that you visit them as well. V-Man737 01:11, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

That's to edit a video, not to save it. --24.147.86.187 01:42, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

If you are just trying to download the video then it depends on how the video is being hosted. If it is in a flash-embedded player, like those on YouTube, then a google search for "download YouTube" will give you many options that claim to be able to do this. If it is a RealPlayer (RM) or ASX file then you often can't, at least not easily (you can download a link to the video but usually not the video itself). Give us some more info on the video and we might be able to help you more — a link to the site itself will give us a lot of information, even if it is not to the exact video you are trying to download. --24.147.86.187 01:42, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

There are several stream capture applications that will cap ASX --froth^T 03:24, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Firefox has a plugin that allows you to save streaming media from certain sites. Might want to give it a try. BenC7 03:28, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

"The Rose"

Is there any place on the internet where I can download a free copy of the song "The Rose" by Cara Dillon (originally sang by Bette Midler)? Thanks.

After a Google search, I decided that the song is probably unavailable on the internet. I mostly found it embedded in an album by Tommy Fleming, in which they sang the song together. Hope that helps! V-Man737 04:10, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. Jamesino 01:21, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Shakespeare's top works

What are generally considered to be Shakespeare's top three plays he wrote? Jamesino 03:19, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Personally: Hamlet then Romeo and Juliet then King Lear or Julius Ceasar --froth^T 03:26, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

By the way, see Shakespeare's plays --froth^T 03:26, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

That definitely depends on your tastes, as well as if you're asking about the best-structured, or the most famous, or the most well-rounded, or the best at what it does (i.e., a comedy that actually makes people laugh). Certainly no three of them outdo the others on all the factors involved. My favorites? The Comedy of Errors, Midsummer Night's Dream, and Macbeth. They each have their individual appeals to me, and trying to figure which is better than the other is like trying to figure out whether a pretzel is more salty than the moon is bright. V-Man737 03:48, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

V-Man's comment in re salt v. moonlight is a point well taken, so ultimately you'll need criteria. If, for example, you go by which plays have broadly impacted culture the most, from which more lines have been adopted into the language, and which have kept scholars guessing, interpreting, and re-inventing, Hamlet must be at or near the top; centuries after the fact, Hamlet himself remains among the most complex characters in all of literature, and his supporting cast is dynamite - second to none. Romeo and Juliet is a strong second choice by virtue of its tremendous appeal alone, followed by Othello, Macbeth and King Lear in no order. Of course, these are all tragedies, but in a body of work like Shakespeare's, I would argue that history has responded the strongest to this category - and for good reason. Wolfgangus 13:33, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

I hated Shakespeare at school; all that The Tempest stuff. So I gave up on the bard. And in my 50th year, my wife took me to a production of Midsummer Night's Dream in Edinburgh during the annual festival. It was so funny, and strangely, I completely understood the vernacular. So that is my number 1. Then I went to see Romeo and Juliet and it was so beautifully scripted, I cried, and I have since seen it on stage and screen and as a ballet (Prokofiev) many times, and each time, I cry - so that has to be my number 2. And then I saw Mel Gibson as Hamlet and I was astounded not just by his performance, which was stupendous, but by the relative accuracy of Shakespeare's treatment of what we now know as Psychology. Extremely thought-provoking but nevertheless, enthralling. So that has to be number 3. But I seek out as many productions of Shakespeare's plays as I can affordably get to in Scotland/England, and am prepared to be shouted down by others at my foregoing shortlist. The Bard was before/during/and after his time. What a gift from God.

The question is a reasonable one, unlike the comparison of a pretzel's saltitude and the Sun's luminance. For many artists one could answer the question which are generally considered their N best works, where N is a small number. For example, Truffaut's best three films might be the first three films he made. Among good artists, it is only for a rare few artists like Shakespeare that it is truly impossible to answer this question.  --Lambiam^Talk 23:18, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Book references

I have noticed that some references that I have used have been changed. Sometimes it is the difference between the hard-cover and pocket book versions. Other times it is a latter edition. As the reference has been made against an actual book, should this be edited and altered? I have not found any policy on this.

On one occasion the ISBN check did not match. In this case I checked both my version and a new book offered for sale. Both had the unbalanced ISBN. This created a problem as the error could be either the number or the check. I chose to used the unbalanced ISBN as printed in the book.

I would like some guidance on this.

Thank you

DonJay 03:24, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

You should reference the book that actually contained the information. If a more recent edition has been produced, it should be checked to make sure that it contains the relevant information before the reference is changed. BenC7 03:30, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Clicking on an ISBN number in Wikipedia leads to a page of book sources, and eventually to a webpage where one can order that book if it is in print. So if a book exists in several editions, and you only wish to refer someone to the book title, it helps if you cite an edition that is readily available. Obviously, if you are quoting from a yearbook or something else that changes with each edition, you need to cite the exact edition. Very occasionally, books are published with an incorrect ISBN. For this reason it is best to cite the 13-digit version of the ISBN that appears below the barcode on the book, as this is usually computer-generated. In fact, from January 2007 all ISBNs are supposed to be cited in their 13-digit form. There is a currently a bot poised to convert all the ISBNs in Wikipedia to this format, and this bot has already flagged incorrect ISBNs for manual correction.--Shantavira 10:29, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

High Jump

In the indoor track and field event of High Jump, at what point is the bar considered cleared? i.e. how long must one wait as the bar wiggles, before it is ruled a successful jump?

thanks, 74.37.228.44 04:48, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

If one is to believe the BBC Sport Academy, "If the bar falls off before you leave the mat it is a failure". –mysid☎ 09:32, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

The 'falls off before you leave the landing mat' rule was the rule at my school. I remember trying to dive off the mat in time to save myself from being eliminated! Some rules I found are..."Knocking the bar off the supports, or touching the ground or landing area beyond the plane of the uprights with any part of the body without clearing the bar shall count as a failure", also "If the bar falls off without having been knocked by the competitor (eg. due to strong wind) the competitor is not penalized." These are taken from the site www.littleathletics.com.au it doesn't mention a time-scale for the bar falling off so i'm not sure what rule applies to that specifically. ny156uk 10:02, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

At my track meet last week there was a discrepancy with this rule. The ref was using the mat rule, and a coach claimed that the rule is a myth. I'm in NY. Omnipotence407 12:55, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

According to the USATF website

v. There is a mistaken belief that provided the jumper scrambles off the landing area before the bar falls, it does not count as a failure. This is quite wrong, and there is no rule to this effect.

So it seems to vary by country. --Omnipotence407 15:19, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Why is the pope informally referred to as "His Palpalness"?

I've seen him (the Late Pope John Paul the 2nd) nicknamed as that in several magazines, chatrooms, and message boards. Why is this? The definition of "palp" is the insect's feeler, basically... I do not see the relation between an insect and a pope.

I think it's a play on the words 'papal' (from pope) and 'palp' (or even just 'pal') — Kieff 05:25, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Google finds no hits on "His Palpalness"?, but a number of hits on "His Papalness". That would be a play on "papal" (which, as just mentioned, means "of the Pope"). If some people out there is using "his palpalness", this is either a spelling error or a further degree of wordplay (i.e. they think it's funny that there's no connection between the Pope and a palp, or they like the way it sounds like "pal", or something). --Anonymous, January 13, 05:28 (UTC).

The Pope#Titles of the Pope gives some really great background on who people are talking about when they use these terms. However, "His Papalness" is not found anywhere in the article, let alone on any reliable internet source (that I've found with a glance at Google). "Papacy," meaning something pertaining to the Pope, would be a more correct form of this word. "Papalness" seems to be a colloquialism that ranges in nature from general title to highly derogatory. As to its origins, I am unable to find anything reliable. V-Man737 06:43, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Does the pope eat off papal plates ? :-) StuRat 17:23, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

No, but I understand that by freezing holy water you get a pope-sicle. V-Man737 01:46, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Most Sold Car

What is the most sold car and model for 2006?

I suspect it might be a Ford truck. However, you might need to be more specific. In the US? In the world? Also, the total numbers for 2006 probably aren't in, yet. --Mdwyer 06:45, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Within the Premier Automotive Group at least, the numbers are in by the 7th Jan each year. GeeJo ^(t)⁄_(c) • 13:21, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Cake

Can cake melt, excluding the frosting?

My guess is no. I believe it would denature or burn before it melted. That is, it would stop being cake. Individual ingredients might melt, though, especially the fats. --Mdwyer 06:44, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Check this out: Tantalyzingly promising, but I'm not sure how to make it work... ;_; At any rate, I've mostly heard of cake burning rather than melting (from too much heat). I'm willing to bet, though, that if a certain cake has too much fat in it, and it is kept at a constant, high temperature, its shape would slump and it would appear to "melt". However, this is not the same as a phase transition. V-Man737 06:57, 13 January 2007 (UTC)(edit: er, well, the cake as a whole does not undergo a phase transition, but the saturated fat does.) V-Man737 05:08, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

The thermal kinetics of starch gelatinization in the presence of other cake ingredients Who writes this stuff?!  :) --Mdwyer 07:04, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

People who are almost as bored as but twice as smart as us. V-Man737 07:25, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Sadly, that article sounds like it's more about cakes becoming solid as they bake rather than melting. I suspect you have to pay to learn more. When you bake a cake, the cake mix initially becomes less viscous (as you can see by it flattening out in the tin and loosing any mounds you may have made) before rising and solidifying. That may be the closest cakes get to melting.

Cake can kind of "melt" if it doesn't have enough rising agent. It turns into a sort of glutinous baked pudding. Not terribly nice. I made a birthday cake for my mother once as a "surprise", using "The Mystery Chef's" recipe (and it made me think he was anonymous for a reason). I ended up with a layer cake that was two layers of Mystery Chef butter cake, and one layer of Jiffy yellow cake mix. The Jiffy cake layer rose a good deal higher than the rather melted 2 layers of butter cake, which were interestingly leaden. My mother was surprised. I was even more surprised. Mothperson cocoon 20:35, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Skittle 17:44, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Ice cream cake sure will. --Nelson Ricardo 17:30, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Of course. Remember the Donna Summers song MacArthur Park? -THB 00:29, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

how is it possible?

When I look at recent changes I see like 150 edits per minute (not including vandalism). How is it possible to obtain that many edits within a minute?--PrestonH | talk | contribs | editor review | 06:47, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Thousands of editors contribute to that number --froth^T 06:57, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm actually surprised the number is so low. — Kieff 08:03, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

News Reports DEAD Birds:

The News services in Austin, Texas has reported that Birds have fallen out of the sky DEAD. Same for the Aussie News services, they too have reported DEAD Birds falling out of the sky. one sec. they're doing OK, then they're DEAD. Terrorists testing VX nerve gas ? 65.173.104.227 08:00, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

What the -edited for language- is going on ? 65.173.104.227 08:19, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

I don't think any of us knows more than the news agencies in THIS GOOGLE RESULT. Anchoress 08:45, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

In the actual event of VX nerve gas, it may be a good idea to run. V-Man737 10:09, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Reminds me of the Barton Fink movie... 惑乱 分からん 14:45, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

And Magnolia. For what it's worth, during an interview here in Austin, the county medical director claimed that it wasn't all that peculiar to see sixty birds die in this manner ... yet he didn't cite another example. Instead, he hinted that the deplorable hygiene practiced by birds may be to blame. We'll see. Wolfgangus 15:56, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

question

what is considered to be the second to the first spirit of the world? i thot alaska was the spirit of the world n it being the biggest state in us then the second wud be texas...but thats not it,but av bin told if i thoroughly googled it al get it..any help mates

Hm, that is a little bit vague, but this seemed to be the most relevant thing a Google search dug up. It seems "Spirit of the World" is an IMAX movie about Alaska. Are you asking about a second movie by this title (i.e., Spirit of the World 2)? I'm unable to find anything relevant indicating that one exists... V-Man737 13:32, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Article writing difficulty

Dear Wikipedia,

I am interested in writing an article on a literary character and I have created an account but I cannot find a link that actually allows me to write an article. I continue to be redirected from one page to the next within the community portal and help areas but I cannot find one page that actually gives me the option of starting a page. I think I am missing something. Perhaps it is some sort of prerequisite approval process that I am unaware of. Please help.

Peter Roblejo

Hi Peter, and welcome to Wikipedia! You can start a new article by writing its desired title in the search box you see on the left. When a search page appears, click on the red link with the text "create this page" and you're ready to write the article. Wikipedia:Help Desk will help you with furhter questions. –mysid☎ 14:48, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Please bear in mind the article naming conventions before proceeding. Search for "John Smith", not john smith or John smith. If similar results appear, you will have to consider creating a better title, such as John Middlename Smith, or John Smith (racing driver). This will require what we call a disambiguation page, with which you should seek further help, perhaps from another editor. As a rule-of-thumb; read the help pages before starting an article. It will leave you better equipped to get started. Adrian M. H. 17:25, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

• This is a question about how to use Wikipedia, so it really belongs on the help desk. Anyway, try WP:AFC, WP:YFA and Wikipedia:How to start a page. - Mgm|^(talk) 10:11, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

date ASU became a university

wanted to know the year Arizona state univeersity became a university. it was Arizona state college in the early 1950's

The year was 1958. Wolfgangus 15:34, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Shouldn't that kind of thing be mentioned in Arizona State University? Nil Einne 15:45, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

The Wikipedia article definitely says 1885.

No, 1885 was when the school was founded, as a normal school, not when it became a university. User:Zoe|(talk) 18:38, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Day care

Are day cares really bad for your kids (in u.s.a).do they really make them sick? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.225.169.185 (Talk) (talk • contribs) 16:05, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

It's the society that makes kids sick. The day care is just a symptom... =S 惑乱 分からん 16:27, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

As I will state in my upcoming book, A Single, Childless Gay Man's Guide to Raising Children, what makes children these days allergic to so many things is overprotective partents who sterilize and sanitize everything. For goodness sake, let your kids play in the dirt and be exposed to germs while young. Otherwise, they will not build up tolerance and imunity. (I am not a doctor, and this is not medical advice.) --Nelson Ricardo 17:28, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Many people view a good child care, or pre-K school as being a very healthy positive experience for their children. They are exposed to different cultures, different peoples rules, and learn to socialize with others their own age, before kindergarten. As for disease, they have an opportunity to get immunity to a broad range of diseases even before going to formal school (K-12) and benefit from that greatly. Atom 19:03, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Physically? I'd have to agree with Nelson. Day cares and other childcare facilities, as well as some other businesses and even residences, are so concerned about "evil germs" and the chance of getting sued for medical care that they nuke everything of germs. Unfortunately, this helps breed chemical resistance and doesn't let the child's immune system build the antibody stocks they need. Cleaning is fine, but the fact is, (going to go a bit into opinion here) commercials such as Lysol's that say that all germs should be eliminated, destroyed, killed help promote this sort of rabid "can't have germs everywhere, can't have germs anywhere" mentality. As for emotionally, supplemental day-care is probably harmless, but dropping a kid off in day-care is no substitute for parenting, and while this might be good for them socially, it's probably not very good developmentally and for bonding with the parent, which is crucial. --Wooty Woot? contribs 19:57, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

I disagree with those who say daycares are bad for children. My mother ran a day care for several years and let me tell you , it was a very healthy environment. it depends on te day care i guess but my mothers was always clean as a whistle. I swear you could never get any germs from that place. The house was scrubbed clean each night and the place was always neat and tidy. It is not unhealthy mentally either. She taught those children valuable lessons in life that benefitted both the children and their parents. She even once (with parental permission) taught them abou the value of money and from that day on the parents all agreed that the children stopped asking for stuff all the time. It just depends on the day care but some are really helpful. i myself went to a Childrens World day care and learned so much from there. Whether in the house or at a day care facility day cares can really influence the way a child acts....negetivly if a bad one..and very positive if a good one. --Kittycat rox 23:18, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

As far as physical illnesses go, there is quite a bit on the net about "day care" +illness. In essence the medical research indicates that a young child in day care clinic (DCC) has an increased risk of sniffling, colds, sore throats and chest infections, compared to a child at home. Epidemic types of infections, such as meningitis, increase. Asthmatic babies have a greater incidence of wheezing and acute breathing difficulties (3x for age group 0-2). "Poor hygiene" infections (skin, diarrhoea, hepatitis) are increased, but can be significantly reduced with strict cleanliness habits. On the other hand, this difference decreases rapidly after 1 year of enrolment and disappears by 4-5 years of age. By 12 years, and in adulthood, the DCC kids have half the "allergies" - food, asthma, eczema - that at home kids have (simply living with older brothers or sisters, or on a farm, has the same effect). No difference in cancers, such as leukaemia or lymphoma. The most recent recommendation (2006) was that health-wise it would be wise to enrol the kid after the age of 1 year, if possible. --Seejyb 03:03, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes, physically and mentally. -THB 18:25, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Subheadings in exam questions

My niece was practising some old exam papers and asked me a the following question.

Exams questions are numbered 1,2,3... and subdivided into part questions a,b,c... but if a part question needs subdividing it's done as i, ii, iii, iv, ...... Now this is clearly based on the roman numeral system buy why is it in lower case? Roman numbers do not have lower cases numerals. I presume it's done now because of convention but thought it up in the first place and was there an actual reason for using lower case? Theresa Knott | Taste the Korn 17:12, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Wouldn't this depend on the exam? I don't think there is a worldwide standard. --Nelson Ricardo 17:24, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

No it wouldn't I've seen it all over the place. Come to think of it, not just in exams, the use of lower case roman numerals as sub sub heading orderings is widespread, but why? Theresa Knott | Taste the Korn 17:32, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

This is standard practice in many publishing houses, though in some contexts the 1.b.iii scheme is giving way to a 1.2.3. scheme. The fact that the Romans never actually used a lower case is unlikely to bother anyone using this system. It makes it clear that this level is inferior to the one above it.--Shantavira 18:29, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

I agree with Shantavira, 1.b.III doesn't properly convey the intended level structure very well. --hydnjo talk 19:36, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

It's probably as simple as the fact that it's the default multilevel numbering in MSWord (blame it on Bill). In MSW, headings are numbered with proper roman numerals, then it's: number, letter, small rn, etc ad infinitum. Anchoress 20:29, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

I believe this has been common practice (as Shantavira said) for a long time. I presume Microsoft Word merely streamlined what many writers and editors would have wanted to do anyway. (So I don't think we can blame Bill here.) —Steve Summit (talk) 21:01, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

From our article Roman numerals: "Sometimes the numerals are written using lower-case letters (thus: i, ii, iii, iv, etc.), particularly if numbering paragraphs or sections within chapters, or for the pagination of the front matter of a book."  --Lambiam^Talk 23:27, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Do Americans really think they are "nearly english"?

In the disgustingly violent film Kill Bill there is a dialogue that goes something like this:

Japanese cafe proprieter: "Are you english?"

Heroine: "I'm nearly english. I'm American."

As a british person I was shocked that Americans even in fiction could think they are nearly english, as to me they do not seem in the slightest like english people. 62.253.44.35 18:52, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

People that are not from the "west" basically do think of Americans and Brits as from the same tree. One would never confuse a Frenchman for a Brit or an American, but they view the cultural or political difference between the British and Americans as small, and unimportant for most things.

The U.S., of course is very widely culturally diverse. Yet, many still feel that their roots as Americans came from England, and a lerge number of people have some english heritage by blood. Culturally Americans and English have very similar cultures from the context of Japanese, Chinese or Korean cultures. Looking closely comparing cultures, there are a great similarities, and of course, a great number of large differences. The cultural stereotypes of each are indeed fairly different from the view of someone who is very American, or very British. But, the point of the humor, I think, is that in the same way the we Americans and Brits lump all asian cultures together, and want to think of them as all being basically the same, is the same way that many cultures view Americans and Brits.

I would say that (in order) that Scottish, Welsh, New Zealanders, Australians, Canadians, and then Europeans are more similar to english people than Americans. I belive far more americans have German ancestry than British ancestry. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.253.44.35 (talk • contribs) 15:17, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

The 2000 Census shows about 43 Million of German descent, and 25 million of English descent. (Roughly 16% and 8% respectively by total population.) German americans were highly visible pre WWII, but after that, lost visibility.

Also, a common view (misconception) is that essentially, Scottish, Welsh, NZ Canadians and Australians ARE part of the U.K., aren't they? Americans are merely closely related to the british. American is seen as predominantly influenced by England, and only marginally by France. For instance, laws in all states are based on English common law (except for Lousiana, which is based on French Law). Atom 20:14, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Americans definitely do not think of ourselves as "nearly English". We might possibly think of the English as "nearly American", though of course not so nearly as Canadians. --Trovatore 19:38, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

The more I think about that line - without knowing the full context - the funnier it gets. I've never met a fellow American who imagined his American identity as 'nearly English', but the line hints at a perceived inferiority complex among some Americans, as well as Trovatore pointing out the contrary, along with a jab at the presumed, perceived, arrogance of Americans in general. Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but Tarantino's humor is rarely so incidental. Wolfgangus 19:50, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

The humor is, as mentioned before, that all Americans lump all dark skinned people as "Africans", all Asians together as Japanese or Chinese, all hispanics as Mexicans, and all Eastern europeans (previous eastern block nations) as Russians. The film plays heavily on racial and cultural stereotyping. The reverse stereotyping that all Westerners are viewed as essentially Brits is the intent, I think. (See Ethnic stereotypes in American media).

The inferiority complex doesn't click, because, as you say, the stereotype for Americans is of an arrogant, large, loud, loutish Texan with a large ego. Brit's are portrayed as unecessarily prissy, sexually cold, submissive, overly proper, prudish, and with bad teeth. Of course, the French, the Italians and Greeks have their own stereotypes. Spaniards, Belgians and Dutch don't have much visibility. Although Dutch might be combined with a general setreotype of Swedes, Finns and Norwegians as tall, sexy but rather dumb and overly easy going. Note: I don't believe any of these stereotypes, and thank goodness none of them are any more relevant than thinking all Americans are like George Bush. (A rich preppy North-Eastern mama's boy -- pretending to be an arrogant, large, loud, loutish Texan with a large ego.) Atom 20:14, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm American, and I don't think I'm "nearly English". Though if asked by a Japanese, I might just say "close—I'm American". To me, there is a kinship that is about culture, not ancestry. I remember many years ago being on a ferry from Ostende to Dover and having a strong feeling of coming home. Marco polo 20:38, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

As a Briton, I've never understood why the Americans would think we're prudish or proper (and it seems to be an enduring stereotype regularly trotted out). In my experience, Americans are far more prudish and proper than the British. Just look at the amount of nudity and swearing the BBC shows after 9pm compared to mainstream US TV channels, the fact that the Americans seem incapable of calling a toilet a toilet (just for the record, public toilets have no baths in them and you don't visit them to have a rest!), and the common American habit of addressing people as "Sir", "Ma'am" or "Miss" (most British people wouldn't dream of doing that unless they were members of a uniformed service, serving a customer - and it's getting uncommon in that context, or addressing a teacher at school). -- Necrothesp 01:47, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

OK, we're wandering a bit from the already tenuous point, but maybe I can help you on the "toilet" question. In the US, "toilet" does not mean the room. It means the actual apparatus (what do y'all call it, BTW?), the thing with a seat and water underneath it. That's why "going to the toilet" sounds a bit overly direct to American ears. --Trovatore 01:57, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Lately, to avert confusion among my intercontinental friends, I simply explain that I am going to urinate. They infer where. Speaking of which... V-Man737 05:14, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

The American impression of British people is the Masterpiece Theatre -- note the pretentious -re spelling -- stereotype of upper-class Victorian lords and ladies. The only English people most Americans have seen who don't speak like Queen Elizabeth II (or Shakespearian characters) are The Beatles. And British culture is still far more formal than American culture in some respects. When I was working in Europe, a British colleague of mine was shocked at the informality of the reply I got to an e-mail I had sent to an American company. I had mentioned I had used their product in my home state, which turned out to be the customer-service guy's home state too, so he included a crack about our local NFL team in his reply e-mail. I think Americans are also far less likely to use last names to address people -- teachers and people over 70 are about the only people called Mr. or Mrs. nowadays. -- Mwalcoff 05:46, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Same in Britain. Mr and Mrs are hardly ever used. People are usually on first-name terms with their bosses, for instance. As to the "toilet", well yes, I realise Americans don't use it for the room, but that was actually my point! In British homes the toilet is invariably in the bathroom too, but you still wouldn't say "can I use the bathroom?" if you wanted to use the toilet. That would imply you wanted to have a bath! You'd say "can I use the toilet?" To refer to the toilet as the bathroom or the restroom implies embarrassment at referring to a perfectly natural bodily function, which the British don't really have a problem with. We call the actual apparatus the "toilet" too, incidentally, or more commonly the "loo" ("can I use your loo?" is also a perfectly acceptable thing to say when visiting someone's house). -- Necrothesp 17:13, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Wait a minute -- you use it for both the apparatus and the room? That's frankly bizarre. So you can say "how many toilets are there in that toilet" and no one will think it's strange? --Trovatore 19:22, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

To clarify, in Britain: actual piece of apparatus designed for use by male or female = "toilet"; actual piece of apparatus designed for males to stand up and use in a public facility = "urinal"; room containing only a (single) toilet = "toilet"; room containing a toilet and a bath = "bathroom"; public facility containing multiple urinals and/or cubicles with toilets in them = "toilets"; cubicle with a toilet in it as part of a larger public facility = "toilet cubicle". Yes, for the larger facility we just use the plural, which makes perfect sense to me. And yet you think it's perfectly normal to refer to something without a bath in it as a "bathroom" and something you visit to use the toilet as a "restroom". Now that I find weird. Why not call a spade a spade, as they say? -- Necrothesp 19:58, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, first of all, I'm not sure your list is entirely accurate; I think the "worst toilet in Scotland" in the film "Trainspotting" had more than one fixture in it. Still, even if it is, it's still, by my lights, extremely bizarre that a room with one toilet would itself be a toilet. You presumably don't call your kitchens "ovens", your studies "desks", your living rooms "fireplaces". But maybe I shouldn't be all that surprised, given that I already knew you sometimes have tea with your tea. --Trovatore 22:23, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

As I said, far less bizarre than calling a room without a bath in it a bathroom. Have you thought that possibly "toilet" in this instance is just an abbreviation of "toilet room"? People use shortened forms of terms even in America, I suspect. The meaning is obvious by the context. -- Necrothesp 11:00, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Reminds of my first day at work, I was wondering around the corridors looking for the toilet. Met a lady and asked her 'Perhaps you can help me, I'm looking for a loo?" to which she answered "Lou who?". Perhaps she was of American descent :) Sandman30s 12:01, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

But I think - as a Californian transplanted in Texas, for the record - that Americans with an acute sense of that arrogant stereotype are more interested in distancing themselves from it. For example, during the time I've spent in Europe, I've always been painfully conscious of the 'ugly American' and probably overreacted more than once to convince Europeans that I wasn't one of those Americans. As a concerted effort to elude that stereotype, it becomes a push to counter an unflattering perception, one made from a position of inferiority. If I omitted perceived from the sentence above and amended it to suggest the complex exists among Americans interested in dodging the stereotype - Americans with a conscience, let's say - I think it becomes just such a complex. It's convenient - and maybe even a measure of personal safety - for some Americans abroad to claim they're Canadian simply to avoid the mounting hassles tied to the nationality. Denying one's nationality as self-preservation is one thing, but doing so because the associated stereotypes are embarrassing, quite another. Wolfgangus 21:37, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Many Americans have all or mostly English blood in our veins. After Canada, we consider England to be the most similar culture. And there are plenty of anglophilic Americans running around. -THB 00:18, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

I suppose that canada is very similar to america, but recently (at least in my experience) it's become popular to mock canada, mostly for their puny armed forces, their comical (and of course untrue) habit of driking gallons of delicious maple syrup every day, and their unusual accents --froth^T 02:32, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

I think the U.S. is more similar to the other predominantly English-speaking countries (Canada, the U.K., Australia, New Zealand and to some degree Ireland) than it is to any other countries. American attitudes toward families, work and the role of the state, while hardly identical with those of the UK, are closer to those than they are to the views of, say, France or Mexico. The World Values Survey map puts the English-speaking countries in the same blob (although Great Britain is now closer to Austria, Luxembourg, Belgium, France and Italy than to the rest of the "Anglosphere," including Northern Ireland). The English-speaking blob of countries is more religious than the Protestant Europe and "Confucian" blobs and more concerned with "self-expression" and individual freedom than the Ex-Communist and Third World (South Asia, Africa and Latin America) blobs. -- Mwalcoff 06:02, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

I live in the USA, and I dont think I am english.Rya Min 01:02, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

I'd say America is more English than England. After all, England uses the metric system, while America uses the English system. America retains the spirit of independence for which England was once known, while England has become a member of the EC. America has the greatest navy in the world now, not England, and has more of an empire (economic) than England, these days. StuRat 09:07, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

This has resulted in some very strange situations, for example the fact that the only nation that has so far put a man on the Moon is still counting distances in multiples of an average hand's width. Not only that, but it's the only nation to do so. Because of the USA's dominance in worldwide communication, though, I'd guess that the average European has to have a more readily available basic knowledge of the American standard system than the average American has to have of the metric system. So the majority must cater for the minority, not the other way around. JIP | Talk 19:18, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Actually, the metric system has been the official measurement system of the U.S. government since 1992. It's just that the U.S. government, unlike the governments of other countries, has not felt it proper to try to force private citizens to use the system. -- Mwalcoff 19:40, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

For the record, the precise dialogue is:

SUSHI CHEF: English?

BRIDE: Almost -- American.

Which leads to a most basic reading: "Am I English? No, but f--k it - you're close enough." Wolfgangus 10:40, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

In Australia, we don't think of ourselves as even remotely English. If anything, we're anti-English, particularly when it comes to The Ashes. However, we often characterise our trans-Tasman cousins in New Zealand as "more English than the English". JackofOz 00:43, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Meanwhile, on the other side of the pond, we see ourselves as fairly British-like (though not necessarily English), and think of ther Aussies as "wannabe Americans" :) In more seriousness, if it was a continuum, I'd say:

English <-> NZers, Scots and Welsh <-> Aussies, Canadians and Irish <-> Americans.

Grutness...wha? 06:13, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Book of Revelation

The article Book of Revelation has some formatting issues... main paragrahs are being shown in the footnote area. If anyone is good at formatting then pls. have a look at it. I tried looking at the source but was not able to figureout the reason for such a display...

Thank you --IndianCow ^Talk 20:08, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

With a quick glance at the article, I'd say it seems to have a fairly good description (especially with the HTML code in the text) at WP:SPCP. Use the article's talk page or other Wikipedia attention-getting pages to get it fixed. V-Man737 21:47, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Real Esate URL

I'm trying to get smart people's opinion on this, so I thought I'd ask here. What would be a good URL name for a service that pools people's money together to flip real estate? Thank you!--orphan frequently 21:34, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

• www.thebubblesnotpoppedyetsospeculatenow.com -THB 00:18, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
• www.flipoffrealestate.com V-Man737 03:55, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Publicly Held Corporation

Question moved here from the Language reference desk.  --Lambiam^Talk 10:09, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Hallo,

can somebody tell me, if the are any requirements a corporation has to fulfill before forming a publicly held corporation, i.e. to offer its shares to the public on a stock market ? Thanks

77.179.14.254 22:48, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

They are many and depend on the jurisdiction and the stock market on which the company seeks to offer shares. I suggest visiting the websites of the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission, New York Stock Exchange and NASDAQ -- Mwalcoff 23:55, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Ok, had a look at the mentioned sites, but I can't find anything about e.g. a minimum capital that is required to form a publicly held corporation. In the UK you can only form a "PLC" (British companion piece to publicly held corp.) with a minimum nominal sahre capital of 50.000 Pounds and in Gemanny it is 50.000€ for a "AG"(Aktiengesellschaft). Is there any capital that is needed before forming Corporation that offers its stocks to the public?

Thanks

I do not think that there is a minimum capital requirement in the United States for forming a publicly traded corporation. However, there are some exacting regulatory requirements, including extensive financial and other documentation, and there is an incorporation fee that varies by state but is usually between $500 and $1,000. The cost of meeting the regulatory requirements would typically exceed the incorporation fee by a considerable amount. So, while there is no legal minimum capital requirement, a minimum of several thousand dollars is required in practice to meet the various requirements. Beyond this, it may be difficult (but not impossible) to attract purchasers of shares without some initial assets. Marco polo 01:35, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Incan Gods.

Could I see some images of the gods as well as an explanation of their meaning?

I suggest you start with Category:Inca deities and work from there. Dismas|^(talk) 23:22, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

January 14

Help deciphering a note

I got a note from a friend. He has really bad handwriting and I can't figure out this one part. It looks like it says "Have you seen 'The Sorrows of Boner or Meditations in the Island of Bbq'?", but this doesn't make any sense to me and I tried a google search. Please help.--216.164.192.144 01:09, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Almost! He meant "The Sorrows of Boney or Meditations in the Island of Elba". I get at least one Google hit for that. — Kieff 01:13, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

As in Boney and Elba, I presume. --Seejyb 03:09, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Yep. It is a caricature of Napoleon by Turner. See page 362 of [5]. --mglg_(talk) 01:36, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Computers

I want to learn about computers. Can someone please tell me where on the web I could do this? The article here is too complicated for a beginner. I did not put this in the computer catagory because I consider this a question about learning. Musli Miester 01:20, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Start here ? [6]--Light current 01:58, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Thank you, but I know how to do all that. I want to know how a computer works. Musli Miester 02:03, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

OK try this [7]--Light current 02:17, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

The field of computers is constantly changing. There is no good place to start really, as everything is connected to everything else, and it is circular. Just jump in learning about some aspect of computers that fascinates or interest you, and read trade magazines, go to the library, buy books from amazon, and establish that interest as a beach-head for topics related to that. Atom 02:54, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Howstuffworks.com [8] is a good starting point for this type of question. StuRat 08:47, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Brett Favre

How can Brett Favre be so amazing? Is he the second coming of Christ?

Yes, the Messiah has nothing better to do, so he plays football. There aren't so many shepherd jobs these days. --Nelson Ricardo 02:32, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Jesus was not a shepherd, he was a carpenter.Rya Min 03:34, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Jesus was a carpenter, experienced a career transition, and is now a shepherd. ^_^ V-Man737 04:03, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

And now he plays for the Packers Rya Min 05:24, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

lol. Keeping on-subject, our article doesn't say much about why Brett Favre is amazing (and indeed, this may forever be a mystery), but it certainly does give many examples of his skills in the game. V-Man737 05:37, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

I thought that Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet. JIP | Talk 08:57, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm not Christian, but if I was, I would fail to see messianic characteristics in someone who threw 29 interceptions in 2005. -- Mwalcoff 06:06, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

There is no other god that can deliver after this sort. V-Man737 12:57, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

He also has the completions record and WILL break the Tds and wins records next year. Dan Marino aint got nothing. Real men arent afraid to throw a few ints. Rya Min 13:24, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Brett Favre or Jesus? JIP | Talk 08:57, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Haven't you been paying attention? same person! :-P V-Man737 01:47, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Google Answers?

68.193.147.179 04:16, 14 January 2007 (UTC)What is the Google Answers Blog at Google Groups?

A tongue twister! In seriosity (what word am I really trying to spit out??), Google Blog actually announced that the Google Answers thingy is no longer active, but FWIW, it doesn't seem to have its own blog; rather, the Google Blog seems to speak for all the Google endeavors as a whole. You should still be able to peruse the archives of Google answers via the above link. V-Man737 05:05, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

And, anon, you can just sign your name after your message, not before, if that's no trouble!martianlostinspace 11:16, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Purgatory

Who do Catholics believe will go to purgatory after they die:

1. Only some Christians?

2. Only some non-Christians?

3. Both some Christians and some non-Christians?

The Anonymous One 05:29, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Our article on purgatory is very useful for this question. Roman Catholics believe, essentially, that anyone who sins (so everybody) qualifies for purgatory. However, this is an after-life purification state, not to be confused with hell. People who are damned to hell for eternity essentially don't have time to go to purgatory. From the article: "there are two punishments for sin: eternal punishment inflicted in Hell, and temporal punishment inflicted in this life or in purgatory if left uncompleted upon death. Forgiveness of sin, for example through the absolution granted by confession, remits the eternal punishment. Penance, such as almsgiving, prayer, fasting, and suffering remit temporal punishment. Thus temporal punishment is a satisfaction for sin." (Baltimore Catechism 629, 804, and 805) V-Man737 05:43, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

(Edit: long answer short, those who are granted absolution of sins (by a priest or other holy officer) sidestep the eternal hell, and are instead purged. This implies that mostly Christians (Catholics) will have purgatory.) V-Man737 05:48, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

I am a lapsed catholic who remains a committed christian in that I believe implicitly in the 10 commandments and strive to obey them as well as follow the teachings of Christ. But I can find no mention of either purgatory or hell in either set of codes (WP:NPOV) If I am wrong, let me apologise, but (Soapy comment removed by V-Man737 13:13, 15 January 2007 (UTC))

What do you mean by 'set of codes'? Do you mean, what they believe? For the general Catholic view of purgatory, try the Catholic Encyclopedia here. Generally it is taught, everyone except martyrs has to go through Purgatory to get to Heaven; who goes to Hell is usually left more vague. Skittle 16:23, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks V-Man for removing half my response, describing it as Soapy. Perhaps you should exercise that same inconsistent discretion on every page in Wikipedia. <--personal attack removed--> I know what the catholic view of purgatory is, and had V-Man not arbitrarily removed half my response as described here, you may have noted that fact. The OP asks "Who do catholics believe will go to purgatory after they die?", a question that no-one can answer. As to Skittle asking what do I mean by "set of codes", is that not self-explanatory? No, I did not mean "what they believe", I mean, "what the Commandments and Christ direct us to observe as rules of life." —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.145.241.245 (talk) 16:59, 15 January 2007 (UTC).

You're welcome. If you feel that your words were not soapy enough to be excluded from a level-headed discussion about the beliefs of various religions, then I apologize. To explain, I cut out your acidic remarks because I felt that you were attacking the Catholic faith, and the reference desk isn't the place to attack the religions of others. And, to be fair, I really am trying to exercise that discretion everywhere I can; this is referred to as Wikipedia's neutral point of view. V-Man737 01:42, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Just need help finding an article, I can't do it!

I've looked for ages, I am trying to find an article about a Legal Statement made in a certain Legal Case which is somewhat of a meme on the internet. Basically the statement is a very long winded and technical "fuck you" that people cite (in typical "See X v X" laywer style) as a 'comeback' in certain online arguments. All help would be appreciated Gelsamel 07:09, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Several moments and Google searches later, I came up with this Slashdot forum discussion which seems to get pretty close. I used Google searches such as lawyer-style insult and humorous lawyer-style comeback, nearly all fruitless. Can you remember any particular part of the legal statement? I could refine the search with snippets of wording, especially if you recall any forums or websites you saw it on. V-Man737 08:01, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

There is a Wikipedia article on it, which I can't find. Also it was linked on www.xkcd.com which I participate in but still can't find (since it was an old post). I think the words "fuck you" were actually in the legal statement but I forget. When ever it's cited as a comeback it's always cited as "Refer to X v. Y" or "See X v. Y" in the same way lawyers refer to other cases. I can't remember X or Y T_T. Gelsamel 08:12, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Also it was in response to a legal threat, a threat of a lawsuit or something. Which they responded with that phrase I'm looking for. Gelsamel 08:15, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

I remember Jeff Rowland (webcomics) making a comic in which Princess Awesomelope tells Sheriff Pony to "engage in the act of coitus with yourself." ...I'll get back on Google for some more power-searching. V-Man737 08:24, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the help so far, I've been searching all over but I still can't find it. I think I'm ready to give up on it. Gelsamel 09:03, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

FOUND IT!!!! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arkell_v._Pressdram Gelsamel 10:54, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

GG. Before I could even get back to Google, the power went out. >_< I'm glad you found it despite my shortcomings! AGGHHH, stupid electrons... V-Man737 11:12, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

I asked on xkcd which I knew someone had posted the link on and I finally got a reply :D Gelsamel 11:17, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Today's laugh. Excellent. I have linked to this article from our fledgling fuck off article so that it may more easily be found in future.--Shantavira 12:10, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Clueless about cooking

I want to cook something more than spaghetti, but I don't know the basics of preparation. I'm going to post a simple recipe. I ask you explain parts that are unclear to me. Thanks.

recipe

2 cups dry chicken stove top stuffing mix (from the canister) What is this product? Can I just buy this ?

Pour into a greased 9 x 12 baking dish. How do I grease a baking dish and what is a baking dish?

66.91.225.188 08:10, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes, Stove Top stuffing in a box will work, too, but don't use the spice pack unless told to do so. A baking dish is a rectangular dish with rounded corners and a draft angle, usually made of tempered glass, for cooking cakes, casseroles, etc., in the oven. You can grease a baking dish with oil, butter, or margarine. Use a clean paper towel to rub it all over the inside of the baking dish. This keeps the food from sticking. I can't help notice that the recipe you intend to use takes around an hour total. Wouldn't something like a nice omelette be a lot quicker ? (I can't think of many cases where the cook wants to start breakfast an hour before anyone wants to eat it.) StuRat 08:24, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Is this for a party? With six eggs, a cup of cheese and two cups of stovetop stuffing mix, that's going to be a big dish (one of the reviews says 'easily serves nine'). HERE are some pictures of baking dishes; the rectangular ones are what was requested, but any oven-safe dish is OK, as long as it is large enough. Anchoress 11:09, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

For this recipe you need to use the seasonings included with the stuffing mix as the recipe is otherwise without seasoning. I think a quiche would be easier and better. Why don't you try a simple version of toad in the hole? (Actually I meant egg in the basket but that's what we call toad in the hole in the U.S.) -THB 18:05, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

I believe the added salt, ham, cheddar cheese, and eggs (the yolks, specifically), will add enough flavor without using the seasoning packet. StuRat 15:29, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

If you are as unexperienced as a chef as you claim to be, then maybe the following advice is not superfluous:

1. Preheat the oven. 10 minutes should be enough.
2. In the absence of instructions to the contrary, put the dish in the oven roughly at the middle height. This means that the oven rack you're going to put the dish on should be a bit lower than halfway. A bit too high is better than too low, though.
3. Before you take out the dish from the oven, make sure you have a nearby place where you can safely put it. Put a folded old newspaper or piece of cloth in advance on the place where you are going to put down the hot dish when you take it out of the oven. (Once you've taken the dish out, you have no hands free to do this, so then it is too late.) This way you avoid damaging the material underneath by putting something too hot on it. Also, putting a hot oven dish directly on something cold the thermal shock may cause it to crack and break.
4. Wear insulating oven gloves when taking the dish out. It is easy to accidentally touch a hot spot of the oven and burn yourself. Don't even think of touching the dish with your bare hands. A towel may not give enough insulation, which you (ouch, ouch) may only discover with the dish halfway in transit.
5. It is easier to take the dish out if you slide the rack first towards you. Don't touch the rack with your bare hands, or you'll have to scrape the flesh off the rack. CAUTION. Some ovens, through inexplicably bad design, allow the rack to cant unexpectedly if you draw it out too much, whereupon the dish may start gliding and fall out, spilling its contents over your legs (and the kitchen floor, but that is not the worst part). Make sure it is not going to do that on you. Support the rack from below while you pull it out, and release it only when you have checked that it is stable.

 --Lambiam^Talk 19:45, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

If you are really clueless about cooking, I'd suggest buying the book Now You're Cooking by Elaine Corn. (I guess she was born to do the job.) It's a cookbook for super-beginners. -- Mwalcoff 02:22, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

I've taken to a similar recipe lately and rather like it. This particular one looks very eggy. 6 eggs? I usually use one. For a real beginner I'd advise against winging it, but if you actually buy a box of Stove Top Stuffing you'll find a couple of similar recipes that have been thoroughly tested by the company's employees. Anyone at your local grocery store can lead you to the shelf where the product is sold (it's probably very similar in Canada to the version in the States). Now if we're sticking to the real basics there are a few other points that deserve attention. First, a 9 x 12 baking dish refers to a standard U.S. sizing in inches that's probably archaic in the rest of the world. My metric converter gives that as 22.86cm x 30.48cm. Look for something pretty close to that. While you're shopping get a pair of potholders or oven mitts. Those are insulated cloths that keep you from burning yourself. Any store that carries baking dishes will sell oven mitts and potholders too (these aren't high tech - some people crochet their own). Before you start the oven make sure that a rack is set at mid-level. Preheaing refers to the time an oven takes to reach the desired temperature, which is not considered baking time. If you set the oven to the desired temperature when you begin to prepare the ingredients it will probably be warm enough when you're ready to bake. Best wishes, Durova^Charge 05:02, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks guys. Lots of great advice. 66.91.225.188 09:36, 15 January 2007 (UTC) Also is that found everywhere tome--the Joy of Cooking--good for beginners? 66.91.225.188 09:40, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

• You might want to check out the Wiki Cookbook too. - Mgm|^(talk) 10:04, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

The Joy Of Cooking is probably a pretty good option, but you may find that if you go to the local bookshop and check out the cooking section, you'll find some other great resources for new cooks. I've got one that I believe is titled "The Bachelor's Guide to Fending Off Starvation" or somesuch (purchased by my mother, who didn't realize that I'm actually a pretty darn good cook) that has a lot of good, simple recipes in it. Tony Fox (arf!) 17:26, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Stages of war?

You know the 7 stages of grief? Are there stages of war commonly used by the United States to indicate increased tensions? Perhaps, "build-up," "surgical strike," etc?

Thank you for your help!

The Five stages of grief don't seem to have much of a cousin in wart war; however, the war article does talk about differing stages of war, as well as types of war which exhibit varying degrees of intensity. The article is very in-depth and gives a lot of interesting information. V-Man737 11:59, 14 January 2007 (UTC) (edit: I apologize for the vague nature of my reply; I just realized you were asking specifically about the United States. After stumbling around the US military category, I was reminded that I am definitely not a military expert. Hopefully someone else will be able to elucidate your answer more fully.) V-Man737 12:10, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

There was the latter of escalation of Herman Kahn but that's not quite the same thing. --24.147.86.187 17:33, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

We have the Homeland Security Advisory System, a useless color warning of the level of threat, like on Star Trek. Thank you, George W. Bush. -THB 18:02, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

And the US military has its DEFCON stages of alert. --Anonymous, January 14, 23:57 (UTC).

Humanities and Career Development

Please explain how these two disciplines are related.

Career development seems to be a part of humanities, in the sense that it studies "aspects of the human condition;" however, this may be a controversial classification, as the article does not specifically list it as a part of humanities. The article says: "Other subjects at times included as humanities in some parts of the world include archaeology, area studies, communications, cultural studies and history, although these are often regarded as social sciences elsewhere." V-Man737 12:36, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Buying Posters

hello,

What shop or company, particually online ones, would be the best for buying posters, like big music posterf for example. Ive tried Amazon but they dont seem to have any actual posters, which is surprising (if there is please let me know).

Thanks, Killer 777 13:42, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

I know of http://www.art.com where I ordered a few posters (two of the Beatles, one of Queen and one of Led Zeppelin actually). --Xedi 16:55, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Getting posters sent in the post can be expensive, depending on how you local postal service works. Posters used to be cheap to send in the United Kingdom, as they are very lightweight (usually weighing less than a small magazine), but since prices changed from weight to size based, they have shot up. I've bought some posters from places like HMV and Music Zone; normal high street music shops usually have some posters, but you may have trouble finding something like a Led Zeppelin poster in such a shop. Laïka 17:04, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Anyboday heard of Wal-Mart? i bought some greenday and nickelback posters there. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 209.53.180.34 (talk) 23:29, 15 January 2007 (UTC).

Wal-Mart is, indeed, a good place for mainstream posters. In my experience, however, it would be difficult to find a wide selection of anything older than two years in popularity (such as Led Zeppelin or Van Halen. V-Man737 01:34, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Ice cream gloves

Where can I get an ice cream glove?--216.164.199.241 20:54, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

I want one too. Rya Min 00:08, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm thinking that one got shelved; Ali G's sales pitch tanked. Wolfgangus 02:06, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

What is it? .V. (talk) 02:07, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

A glove made of ice cream? | AndonicO ^{Talk · Sign Here} 16:00, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Sticky Fingers ? -- DLL ^{.. T} 17:21, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

It was a joke on the Ali G show. He proposed an invention to venture capitalists which was a glove to wear while eating ice cream. It was sorta dumb. --24.147.86.187 18:19, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Buda or Pest Hungary

Is the National Parliament Building in Buda or in Pest? I can't remember which side is which, I was there in 1984. Directions like "East" "West" don't help. Thank you. Rayilyn Brown —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.2.230.8 (talk) 22:14, 14 January 2007 (UTC).

It's in Pest, on the east bank. -- Necrothesp 23:00, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Nunchakus

Hi there. I've seen many people using nunchakus in exhibitions and so, but still can't figure out how they don't hit themselves when they strike. The thing is they swing the weapon horizontally until it (more or less) touches their back and then bring it back to the hand again, or under the arm. What do they do to prevent hurting themselves in the back while performing that move? Thank you. --Taraborn 23:50, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Nunchaku may not answer the question, but at least we'll all know what you're talking about! --Tagishsimon (talk)

From what I understand, a user does have to use their body to slow it down as well, so it might be impossible to prevent any sort of contact. Let me see what I can find. --Wirbelwindヴィルヴェルヴィント (talk) 00:45, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

A nunchaku spinning is like a lever, when you are holding one section and spinning the other it rotates like a propeller, the end is moving really fast because it is spinning in a BIG circle, if the end hits someone's head it will HURT. The trick when you are spinning it around your body is to hit yourself with the CLOSE end first, the end closest to the chain, that is only travelling slowly (comparatively) because the circle it is drawing is only small. So the close end hits your side, for example, and starts to slow the nunchaku down, it dampens the movement, so that by the time the whole thing swings around and the end hits you it isn't going fast any more so it doesn't hurt. Vespine 02:49, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Ideally, the 'far end' does not hit the wielder at all. For instance, when the nunchaku are flipped under the arm the goal is to catch the 'near end' between the arm and the body... stopping its motion and thus preventing the far end from ever hitting the back. Even if this does not work the pressure would slow the weapon and prevent injury as above. Likewise, when flipped over a shoulder the near end is generally caught by the other hand before the 'far end' can hit the body. Catching the far end could damage the hand, but the slower moving near end can be caught and thereby stop the whole weapon. --CBD 10:05, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

January 15

person@supanet.???, Unrouteable address

A friend in UK sent me his email address: person@supanet From his viewpoint, I should be able to fill in the rest because it might be well known in UK but I am in Australia and I have no idea of what ??? is. As expected, the email was returned with error message Unrouteable address. Then I searched the internet trying to find out what is the substring ??? in full email address: person@supanet.??? but could not find anything. Be grateful if somebody could help. Thank you in advance. Twma 00:40, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure how you performed your search, but the first match that comes up from a search of "supanet UK" gives supanet.com. BenC7 00:43, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Have sent again with person@supanet.com Will see what happens. Thank you again. Twma 04:38, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Maybe supranet.co.uk or supranet.net.uk (see .uk) --froth^T 19:43, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

person@supanet.com: I have not received any error message but my friend(?) did not reply me either. So the case appears to be closed. Thanks. Twma 00:52, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, if I were you I would also try <myfriendsname>@supanet.co.uk.  --Lambiam^Talk 05:28, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

new

i am putting a book together is it ok yo use information from wikipedia .i plan to validate the information with other credible source but i want to use wikipedia as my source

Wikipedia is best to use as a tertiary source. Quoting directly from an article is probably not a good idea, given that it could be incorrect or change at any moment. I'd recommend using Wikipedia to find reliable sources instead of actually using an article itself. .V. (talk) 02:08, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Much agreed - I got an A on a major English paper I did last year because of the sources I was able to find through Wikipedia. This was ironic because my teacher at the time felt that Wikipedia has no reliable sources. V-Man737 02:13, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

By the way, this is true of any encyclopedia. Wikipedia might be better than other tertiary sources, but encyclopedias are never sources --froth^T 19:40, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Celebration / LED

I have two questions:

1.) Is there a celebration planned for when Wikipedia donations reach $1,000,000?

2.) I have several red and white LEDs salvaged from cheap broken 3 volt bicycle flashers that I'm testing. The "flat" should mark the negative or the cathode (k) lead and inside the clear plastic case correspond to the smaller electrode that serves as the "whisker" that touches the positive "seat." Although the white LEDs require nearly 6 volts to light instead of 3 volts the white LEDs follow this "flat" mark for the cathode pattern. This, however, is not true for all of the red LEDs. Some have the negative lead marked with a "flat" and some have the positive lead marked with a flat. If the "flat" is used by the manufacturing equipment to locate the negative lead how could the flat be on the wrong side??? What is going on here? -- 71.100.10.48 02:19, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

The flat part of a LED representing the cathode was a standard established before the time of the ancients, well, a long time ago anyway. If you have LEDs where the flat part is on the wrong end, you may simply have examples of very poor quality control. Vespine 02:34, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

For #1, probably not since IIRC the goal is 1.2 million (1.5?) --froth^T 19:31, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

What movie is this

I remember watching this movie but cant remember the name. It was about a harvard student who gets his thesis lost, and a homeless person living in the library basement gets it and asks favors for each page...what movie is it?, thx.--Coasttocoast 02:57, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

With Honors (IMDb link) — Kieff 03:23, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Identical twins

Please help! Is it possible for a boy and a girl to be identical twins? Many, many thanks.

No. Identical twins are genetically identical, meaning (among other things) they are either both boys or both girls. See Twin for more. Dave6 08:28, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Keep in mind also that fraternal twins can be different in gender, and yet (sometimes) look very similar. V-Man737 11:04, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

(This answer refers to the XY sex-determination system) One of Dr. Robert Winston's documentaries featured a pair of identical twins who were different genders; they started as a single male (XY) embryo, but when the zygote split, the Y chromosome for one of the zygotes disappeared, leaving a pair of twins, one of which was XY and the other X, but otherwise identical. Unfortunately, as the girl only had one X chromosomes, lots of rare recessive genetic disorders were expressed. In addtition, occasionally a faulty sperm cell is produced by nondisjunction which contains XY instead of just Y. When this fuses with the X egg cell, an unstable XXY zygote is produced, which then splits into an XY and an XX. Laïka 11:47, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Or, if it doesn't split, it leads to Klinefelter's syndrome. V-Man737 13:26, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Well obviously, they weren't identical, even though they came from the same fertilized egg. -THB 15:32, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

love....

okay so heres the deal. im in love with this guy and he says he is in love with me. We have liked each other for about 5 months now. We can not date because of certain issues our families have...lets not even get into them. My mother has not banned me from even speaking to him. They can not be reasoned with to see our side on it. My mother even forced me to call him and tell him it will not work. i still love him and again..he says he still loves me. I sometimes get onto his myspace so i can sent him a message so that my parents cant tap into mine and read it. I went on just a few minutes ago to discover that he has not writen back to me but has sent my/his friend a message saying ..and i quote "please dont tell cat (me)about Emily. I still love her" What do i do? im shaking right now....i can barely type. This is no "oh i love him..blah blah blah" This is true love..the purest of the pure. I can not just let him go. I have been trying for quite some time but i love him too much. please..anyone..what do i do? --Kittycat rox 10:12, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, and so it can't provide much help with emotional/love life problems. You could read our articles on star-crossed lovers, love sickness and unrequited love - there might possibly be something in there that helps you. Gandalf61 10:22, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Applying WP:IAR to WP:NOR, it is my experience that time has a funny way of causing things to happen the way they should. serendipity aside, Gandalf has a point with where you are in your search for answers. The Ref Desk crew probably won't have a fully satisfactory answer to any relationship question. Take me, for example: If I was good at relationships, I'd be making out right now instead of typing away on the computer. I wouldn't trust my advice if I were you. But I can point you in the direction of some people who feel that they know what they are doing. Sigh. If Google was a woman, I'd be after her like a Wikipedian after references. V-Man737 10:57, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Applying WP:IAR to the obsession with keeping metacomments off the RD, IMO it's a joke to even try to follow WP:NOR on the RD ;D --froth^T 19:19, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Stop trying to let him go. He has enough respect for you to not want to hurt your feelings, but he's doing another chick now, and you've got to face that. Channel your feelings into anger at him and they'll dissipate. But actually trying to let him go won't work-it's like "don't think about this catchy tune I'm going to play" Good luck. -THB 15:30, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Look on the bright side, you'll be choosing your parents' old age home some day. That'll be a good time for revenge, which is a dish best served cold. --Nelson Ricardo 17:54, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

No, don't do that either. Revenge is a dish best not served. | AndonicO ^{Talk · Sign Here} 18:19, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

No, revenge is a dish best served immediately, before it melts. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 216.164.199.58 (talk) 19:11, 15 January 2007 (UTC).

Vengeance is mine, says the lord! [9] Just wanted to throw that in there o_o If you want to play God, though, that's a great verse to quote ominously to your parents ([10]) --froth^T 19:28, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Why not just throw the dish at your parents right now, and save the revenge for later?

what am i suppose to do exactly about th revenge. they know seem to find out everything. i will try this being angry thing. i really do get over things better if i am angry at them. thanks.i understand this is a wikipedia thing but i really have no where else to go. No one knows how to help me and i really have no one to talk to about it. so it sits. bottled up inside me. Yes. i think anger might do the trick. If i am to angry at him i will be tempted to even want to talk to him. --Kittycat rox 00:14, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Forget about revenge. While your parents shouldn't be meddling with your love affairs, it will do you no good to retaliate. Projecting your anxiety as anger over him is a pretty good strategy because, hey, you have good reasons for that. But also, if he's already with some other girl, that'd mean your trust and feelings about the depth of this love you had with him were wrong and inaccurate all along, so there's really not so much on the stake after all. Move on, there's more (a lot, lot more) in life than "love" and personal relationships. Keep yourself busy with those other things instead and treat any love you find as a bonus. — Kieff 01:48, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Franking

Why is franking, the practice of companies stamping their mail with a machine, called franking? I've looked it up and can find no reason for the name. 212.240.35.42 14:04, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

It comes "frank" as an adjective, meaning free. A franked letter is "free from obligation in respect of payments or other conditions; free of charge; unconditional" (OED). BTW, this question would have been better asked at the language reference desk. --Richardrj ^{talk email} 14:32, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

I read that it was derived from Italian "porto franco", free of charge for receiver due to pre-payment by sender. 惑乱 分からん 15:57, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Yep, it also applies to congressmen; they have "franking privileges" which allows them to send US mail for free. --froth^T 19:16, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

According to the Oxford English Dictionary: "["frank"] acquired the sense of "free" because in Frankish Gaul full freedom was possessed only by those belonging to, or adopted into, the dominant people". -- Necrothesp 19:21, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Lesser Key of Solomon

Having read these, it would seem to me that they are a collection of spells, hard to do, but spells, that could theoretically be done. What I wish to know, is has any one tried to do these in modern times, other than Alastair crowley, and if so, what were the out comes? Did they conjure up deamons and if so what happened? What did they have to say ect? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.144.161.223 (talk) 14:41, 15 January 2007 (UTC).

Please don't post the same question multiple times. Rmhermen 16:59, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Ah, What did they have to say ect? is fun, but Why did they have to say ect? looks funnier. -- DLL ^{.. T} 17:11, 15 January 2007 (UTC) *They say "ect"to conjure ectoplasm(hotclaws**== 18:26, 15 January 2007 (UTC))

Watches. Time Always Set At 10:00 10:00 66.41.244.168 17:39, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

You'll notice when ever a watch is displayed the hands are set to read 10:00 10:00. The watch you display with your archive button is set at 10 10.

66.41.244.168 17:39, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

As I understand it this is supposed to be something to do with allowing the 'company logo' of the watch to be seen and also because the time is quite distinctive. I've also heard it looks like a 'smile' and thus is a positive act too. Look at the discussion page of watches for more. It is interesting that even photos of digital-watches seem to often follow this trend (though I would add that both 1 and 0 on a digital watch are the best numbers to show off the rather simple-font that most digital watches use - 5s and 4s look a little 'ugly' for instance). ny156uk 18:16, 15 January 2007 (UTC

See the Straight Dope on the topic. -THB 20:37, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure we have an article on this. Can't find it anywhere, though. — Kieff 20:46, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

I remembered this coming up before on the RDs, and had a look back - found the old question here. Kieff is right, we did have an article on it, but unfortunately it's been deleted - see Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/10:08. --Richardrj ^{talk email} 21:58, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

I spent a bit of time looking for it, too, because I thought there was an article on it. Chalk another one up for the deletionists. The discussion on the deletion was particularly inane. -THB 23:15, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Huh? I have no clue as to THB's comment having anything to do with "Watches. Time Always Set At..." --hydnjo talk 01:24, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

So Doesn't contain a single verifiable fact is inane? User:Zoe|(talk) 16:52, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

(There is a constant tension between the folks who think that this cyberspace encyclopedia can contain essentially all information about everything (the inclusionists) and the folks who think it should only contain the information that they deem necessary (the deletionists). Atlant 17:43, 16 January 2007 (UTC))

And you're an admin? You know, of course, that the so-called "deletionists" do not believe any such thing. User:Zoe|(talk) 17:57, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

U.S. Political Parties

Is there a party in the U.S. that supports punishment of gays, but is not based on religion? --216.164.199.58 19:08, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

In order to help us understand your question more clearly, could you please cite an example of a party in the U.S. that supports punishment of gays, that is based on religion. --hydnjo talk 19:14, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

How does giving an example allow you to understand my question more clearly? I want to know, out of all non-religious U.S. parties, are there any that support punishment of gays.--216.164.199.58 19:19, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

See the problem with that question is the "supports punishment of gays". By phrasing it like that you suggest that you are right, and others are wrong. Also, generally most people don't subscribe to punishing people because they have different philisophical views. So, people reading the question might form a negative opinion of you.

A better way to phrase might be "I am philisophically opposed to sodomy. Are there non-religious based political parties that have similar views?"

Supposed you had phrased it "punishment of blacks", "punishment of women", or "punishment of jews"? When you could say "supports white supremicism", "against women's rights" or "supports anti-semitism"? Phrasing it like you did, or like you might have here, makes you sound like a closed minded bigot, who wants to harm people to force them to adhere to your philisophical beliefs. I'm sure that isn't your intention. Atom 20:03, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Possibly some extreme right party... 惑乱 分からん 19:15, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

216.164... , you have now presented your question quite differently by paraphrasing your original question. Please restate your question, as best you can, so that we may understand your question more clearly. Thanks, --hydnjo talk 19:37, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

He never said that there are parties based on religion that support punishment of gays. He was only asking whether there are any that aren't based on religion and support punishment of gays. Is the KKK a registered political party? If so, my money's on them --froth^T 19:46, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Atom, asking someone to rephrase their question to meet the answerer's preconceptions is fraught with pitfalls. Sodomy is not a practice exclusively associated with homosexuals; many heterosexual people also do this. Many male homosexuals practise sodomy only rarely, or never. The vast majority of female homosexuals have nothing whatever to do with it. JackofOz 23:32, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, of course I know all that. The purpose is for him to get it. It seems likely that his prejudice is religious in origin. The religious reference is based on sodomy, not "gays". The point that anal sex is practiced by heterosexuals (well, primarily by heterosexuals) is indeed another element that I hoped would occur to him by the example. And if he does not have that conception, then the example still serves quite well to guide him on reqording, even if it is not precisely what he mean't. Atom 02:30, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

OK, so if the intent is the noble one of pointing the questioner in the right direction, why do you point him in the direction of a stereotype that you've just acknowledged you know is false? That may not have been in the questioner's mind at all. He said at the outside that the punishment he's seeking information about is not based on religion, so I see no evidence that this question is about sodomy. The prohibition on same-sex couples (including lesbians) being able to marry in the US (and most other places) seems punishment enough for gay people, but no lawmaker has ever suggested (to my knowledge) that all gay people do is practise sodomy 24/7. JackofOz 05:05, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

He didn't say his reasons were not religious, he said he wanted to find a political party that was not religious based. The example he gave, like mine, are stereotypes, like his own, that are considered to be unreasonable discrimination, the same, not different. Why would anyone want to "punish" gays at all? His objection is likely sodomy based, as that is the objection of 99% of all people who want to discriminate against gays. I did not suggest that their reasoning for discriminating aganst gays made sense. It obviously doesn't. If it did, they would discriminate against heterosexuals too (since most sodomy is by heterosexuals, not homosexuals). Their agendum is based on hatred toward homosexuals, and their reasoning is most commonly biblical, based on their misperception that homosexuals are "sodomites" described in the bible. Religion isn't based on rational logic, and so that is not their strong suite. They have faith that gay people are immoral, and that is enough reason to castigate, disparage and persecute. A cursory reading of leviticus would show any christian a dozen other areas as bad or worse than sodomy. For instance adulterers, or those who eat pork. Clearly if conservative christianity did not have a common enemy to fight against, they would fight against the differences they between themselves instead. Atom 13:01, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

I agree with a lot of that. But for the life of me I could not make head or tail out of your 2nd sentence ("The example he gave ..."). He didn't give an example in the original question, and when asked to provide one, he pointedly refused to do so. JackofOz 00:00, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

This sort of party would be extremely authorotarian. I would start at American Political Parties and work from there. In a very lazy way I would look for parties with 'national', 'workers', 'traditional', 'populist' that sort of thing - these are parties that are likely to have less mainstream views. It is not a case of this being an issue of the extreme-right (always a problem with politics - anything authorotarian is labelled as right-wing), it is an issue of civil-liberties. I'm not sure how many would be non-religious but the above link is a good place to start I guess. ny156uk 19:58, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

I think his question was rhetorical, primarily, as he asked earlier why people felt that his questions were trollish, or innapropriate. If it is a genuine question, then a good source might be American Nazi Party, or Aryan Nations.

Yes, there is: the Republican Party (United States) wants to punish homosexuals by denying them the hundreds of basic rights that come with the marriage contract. The "president", George W. Bush, even proposed a constitutional amendment depriving homosexuals of these rights. -THB 20:05, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

The OP's question asks about the opposition that is not based on religion. I believe that the Republican party's position is "faith based". --hydnjo talk 20:21, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

No, I think virtually all opposition to gay rights is now religiously motivated, since all non-religious motives for institutional homophobia have basically been discredited. It was once regarded as a mental illness, but this is no longer the case. Mainstream medicine and psychology can no longer be used to defend homophobia. Anyone opposed to gay rights must now base his position either on personal revulsion or "traditional values". Or, more likely, personal revulsion rebranded as traditional values.

Another thing to keep in mind is the fact that U.S. political parties, at least the big two, are not ideologically uniform. There are a few Republicans sympathetic to gay rights (Lincoln Chafee, arguably a Republican), and there are still plenty of unabashed gay-bashing Democrats (Harold Ford Jr comes to mind). The parties also generally avoid language like "punishment of gays". Even if their ultimate goal is to make gays' lives miserable, they prefer to frame the issue as the defense of traditional values against the encroachment of... blah blah blah. No one is interested in looking persecutory. Bhumiya (said/done) 00:05, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

• In a word,no(86.53.57.148 16:26, 16 January 2007 (UTC))

I'm not aware of any organised political party that has what could be considered 'anti-gay' beliefs that are not based on religion. The closest group i can think of is Scientology, but i guess that would be a religion (although a very unconventional one), and i'm not sure you could consider them an actual 'political party'.

However it's important to note that there are individuals (and probably small groups) who oppose homosexuality on some level for (at least what appear to be) 'non-religious' reasons. I have a relative, for example, who is a pretty hard-core atheist but is also extremely prejudiced against gays. My novice psychology skills tell me that this is just a carry-over from his up-bringing (which you could consider religious), but he does not actively base his beliefs on religion. He just doesn't realise their source.

I have also argued with people on-line who base their opposition to homosexuality on some sort of natural or biological law (e.g., 'it's not natural!', 'it's an evolutionary dead-end!', &c.). This is absurd because biology and morality really have almost nothing to do with each other, and honestly my guess is that the root of their beliefs is similar to that of my aforementioned relative's, but again those beliefs aren't actively based on religion. ~ lav-chan @ 23:28, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Can someone identify these plants?

Can someone identify these plants? These pictures were taken in the Eastern Cape of South Africa. Thanks in advance! Servien 19:33, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

? (almost a heath-like plant)

? (the small red plants)

Watch water resistance

Somebody asked a question here but nobody's answered it. I'd also like to know --froth^T 19:38, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Done. I even gave a reference via an outside website. This is another example of why answers to RD questions cannot be restricting to referring readers to articles: because the info isn't in Wikipedia. -THB 20:03, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Military strength of number

If two military units A and B fought to the death under a given set of conditions, A would have an X% chance of winning and would do so with, on average, Y casualties. Now suppose both sides are multiplied by some number N -- NA vs. NB. Would NA still have an X% chance of winning, and would it do so with an average of NY casualties? NeonMerlin 19:39, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Even discounting obvious factors like technologial supremacy (like china having many more troops than America, but America could whoop china into next tuesday before next tuesday) and strategic supremacy (like thousands of allied troops dying at the hands of dozens of nazi machine gunners on D-Day), on the battlefield level it still depends on individual soldier skill and I'd hesitate to say definitively anything about battle stats --froth^T 19:50, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

During my (short lived) consultancy for a military contractor, I was told that the Army uses predictive equations dating back to the first world war to model battlefield casualties. (I do not know what they are called, though) Presumably the arguments to this equation take into account all the factors you mention (or at least the most relevant ones). Raul654 20:35, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Surely if someone has already won, they don't need to fight a second time. :]

I believe that the OP was asking whether or not such warfare is linear. To a "small" degree I suppose that it is. However at the margins ("A" has a 99% to 1% chance of winning with Y casualties) "A" may decide to apply maximum force (as Napoleon Bonaparte said, "If you start to take Vienna, take Vienna") and make N = 10. Then I don't believe that "Y" would become "10 Y". Good ol' Napoleon figured that one just fine, overwhelming force will out. So, if he had the resources he would make "N" become "10 N" and would have the expectation that "Y" would certainly not become anywhere near "10 Y". Generaliamo hydnjo talk 21:47, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

On the other hand, "B" being faced with a non-linear extrapolation ("N" = 10) may decide to go nuclear and that's that I suppose. --hydnjo talk 22:07, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

It's always a bit more complicated than just numbers though, and it really can depend on what forces in particular one is talking about. Technology and training can make big differences, as can things like who has the "home court" advantage. While I don't doub that you could come up with reasonable mathematical models, you'd have to factor in a lot more than just how many people were on each side. There are numerous instances of small forces effecting highly disproportionate numbers of casualties on the other sides due to training and technology. --24.147.86.187 18:02, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Suppose the available technology is such that they can only go person against person, that each individual fight is until death of one of the two, and that the members of the A group are twice as likely to come out victorious. So if the groups both have size 1, the A group has a 2/3 probability of winning. Now suppose both groups have size 2. AA against BB. With probability 4/9 AA survives, with probability 1/9 BB survives, and with probability 4/9 one A and one B survives. They fight each other in a second round, with 2/3 probability for A and 1/3 for B. So for the final configurations we have: AA 4/9 = 12/27, A 2/3 × 4/9 = 8/27, B 1/3 × 4/9 = 4/27, BB = 1/9 = 3/27. In the first two cases the A group wins, with total probability 20/27 > 2/3, while the B group wins with probability 7/27 < 1/3. So the probability does not remain the same. Also, for A against B, there is one casualty. For AA pitted against BB, the expected number of casualties is 22/9, which is larger than 2 × 1.  --Lambiam^Talk 23:10, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Identify Celebrities

Please watch this commercial and tell me who all these people are. The ones I already know are Dave Stewart, Tom Jones, José Carreras, Robbie Williams, Wallace & Gromit, Jarvis Cocker, Sting. Thank you. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 195.218.15.86 (talk) 21:54, 15 January 2007 (UTC).

Umm, we do have an entertainment desk. --hydnjo talk 21:57, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Could be tricky if you aren't from the UK & I guess that this is 10+ years old. Some more are Statto, Richard Attenborough, Vic Reeves, Bob Mortimer, Alf Garnett, David Mellor, Jimmy Hill, George Best, Chris Eubank, Quentin Crisp. I can't remember the names of the grey haired guy or the woman. JMiall 00:12, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

For Alf Garnett, read Warren Mitchell. JackofOz 00:20, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Stephen Berkoff Anna Friel meltBanana 00:55, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

firing order

I need the firing order for a 1981 chevy V6 229 cid motor. If any one can help me PLEASE!! I am going to rip my hair out if my husband asks me one more time.

67.142.130.45 22:45, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Per (Chevy Production 90 degree - V6 Engine[11]) Firing order on all 90 deg. - V6 engines is 1-6-5-4-3-2. Atom 23:23, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Animal Crackers

Are animal crackers actually crackers, or are they cookies? THe article does not clearly say, it just suggests an argument for each side. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Rya Min (talk • contribs) 23:42, 15 January 2007 (UTC).

They're cookies, or biscuits if you prefer. They aren't crackers according to the modern definition of that term. Bhumiya (said/done) 00:07, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

They crack when bitten, unlike most other animals. I'd actually have more question about whether they are animals. Cracker, biscuit, cookie, fine. But are they really animals? V-Man737 02:01, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

I think a better question is, why are humans eating them? You don't eat dog biscuits, do you? --Wirbelwindヴィルヴェルヴィント (talk) 02:03, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

... They're not that bad. V-Man737 02:32, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

I didn't mean it that way. Dog biscuit → Biscuit for dogs. Animal crackers → Crackers for animals. --Wirbelwindヴィルヴェルヴィント (talk) 04:45, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, I meant the dog biscuits aren't bad. V-Man737 02:25, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

People do feed them to goats. Rya Min 21:51, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

What is Nu-Austerity?

What is Nu Austerity? 59.167.252.197

Aside from being misspelled, this Googley searchey seems to indicate that it's a company of some sort. As with most other companies having flashy names, they seem to produce mainly buzzwords and cliches. (Okay, I didn't look that far into it, but I got turned off before I could get much more involved.) V-Man737 02:27, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

It seems to be a name invented by a marketing company called thefuturelaboratory for a supposed trend they want us to seek their advice about how to exploit. --mglg_(talk) 04:20, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Jesus

Which literature/historical/fictional characters are similar/can be compared to Jesus? For example: Simon in "Lord of the Flies" by William Golding. Jamesino 02:08, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Loads of 'em. Perhaps one of the more famous examples is Valentine Michael Smith in Stranger In A Strange Land. Grutness...wha? 02:26, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Aslan, Donnie Darko, Simba, and Neo are the first to come to my mind. (edit: I neglected to mention Spock and Brett Favre(see thread on him above) - I am so ashamed.)V-Man737 02:30, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Gandalf. He comes back from the dead, or so the other characters thought, he goes from being Gandolf the Grey to Gandalf the White, white being a color for purity. He performed what may be viewed as miracles. He could communicate with animals which may be looked upon as a trait of a Christ figure. Dismas|^(talk) 03:45, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Does he really communicate with animals, minus the Great Eagles? I thought that was mostly Radagast. But aside from that, he has been compared to Jesus. --Wirbelwindヴィルヴェルヴィント (talk) 04:43, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

I always thought his relationship with Shadowfax at the least bordered on direct communication. Dismas|^(talk) 05:09, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Prometheus as well. Check out Christ figure for more. Wolfgangus 03:55, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Billy Budd (amazing--he's not in Christ figure, at least not yet). Casey in Grapes of Wrath. There's lots... it's fun thinking of these. Antandrus (talk) 03:55, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Santiago in The Old Man and the Sea. Someoneinmyheadbutit'snotme 04:51, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

The man in Whistle Down The Wind (a great film, btw) is mistaken for Jesus by a group of children. And then of course there's Brian... --Richardrj ^{talk email} 08:47, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Ghandi? | AndonicO ^{Talk · Sign Here} 12:54, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Gandhi! ^_^ V-Man737 13:04, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Long John Willoughby in Meet John Doe. —Chowbok ☠ 15:02, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Brett Favre? <g,d&r> JIP | Talk 17:35, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Tommy

Atlant 17:46, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

dill in scar night.

Superman - he died, attracted a cult and then returned from the dead. --Larry laptop 20:57, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

I agree with JIP Rya Min 21:50, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Izola Ware Curry

Please shed some light on the life of Izola Ware Curry, the woman who attempted to kill Martin Luther King, Jr at a New York City book signing and photo op event in 1958. She was whisked away to a mental institution (where she may still be), and the public was told she was just paranoid-schizophrenic. My husband worked for MLK Jr in the early 1960's, and the word then was that MLK Jr knew Mrs. Curry back in Georgia and may have had some responsibility for her taking leave of her senses. Was she ever able to get back to a normal life? Or were they able to make their diagnosis permanent? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Livylee (talk • contribs) 03:00, 16 January 2007 (UTC).

There doesn't seem to be much in the way of activity beyond her institutionalization. It would have been big news to hear that a previously would-be assassin of Dr. King had been released; this Google search doesn't shed much light beyond 1958 (Although this website should be useful for entertainment purposes). On a sidenote, an article on Izola Ware Curry would be a great addition to Wikipedia, especially in light of the holiday. V-Man737 03:42, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Headphones

Can anyone help me to find decent quality circumaural headphones for under ninety dollars with a good range (at least 20 hz to 20.5 Khz) and even frequency response (low bias toward or away from any frequency range), or at least reasonably so for the price? And not wireless? And don't say Sennheiser HD 497; they're apparently discontinued. Thanks. Someoneinmyheadbutit'snotme 04:53, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Sony has never let me down; those are 99 bucks, though... *still searching* these cost $35.49, making me wonder what's wrong with them (site lists full details); this Google search provided those links. For the sake of optimism, this might interest you. V-Man737 05:27, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for tryin'...the second Sony ones were wireless (forgot to specify that in the original query). Someoneinmyheadbutit'snotme 21:34, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

The $35 ones are used ("recertified"), that's why they're so cheap. |-THB 23:58, 16 January 2007 (UTC) Am I going to have to remove this flaming remark? ;-) V-Man737 02:32, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Stepfamily

The daughter of the first wife is the stepdaughter of the second wife. What is the relationship of the daughter of the second wife to the first wife. BD LongBdlong 09:08, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

That would be referred to as "daughter's step-sister" by the first wife, or "step-sister's mother" by the 2nd wife's daughter. V-Man737 09:20, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Was Jesus born out-of-wedlock?

If so, is a pejorative term applicable?

lots of issues | leave me a message 12:03, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

The Bible doesn't say if Mary and Joseph were married at the time Jesus was born, but certainly they were not married when he was conceived. Mary was a virgin. And, for the same reason, a pejorative term is not applicable. BenC7 12:21, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Mary and Joseph were Jewish. According to Jewish law, a marriage is not complete until consummated, so if you believe she was a virgin her whole life, she never married. I suppose you could argue that she therefore married God, as the reverse also applies in Jewish law (ie sexual intercourse is a method of marriage, willy nilly) but I believe that only applies to sex between Jews... and Judaism certainly doesn't regard God as Jewish. --Dweller 12:28, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

(in general, you really shouldn't apply pejorative terms to religious figureheads - it's rather tactless.) V-Man737 12:36, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Also to my knowledge the marriage was the public taking home, which Joseph did before the pregancy was apparent to the public, in order to avoid the implications for Mary. Agathoclea 12:48, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Some people have claimed that Mary wasn't a virgin at the time, just that she hadn't had sex with Joseph. 惑乱 分からん 13:20, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Joseph and Mary were married according to Jewish law, thought the marriage had not yet been consummated. Still they were married.

Agathoclea is completely right in what he said.

Wakuran, "some people have claimed" is not enough for such claims. You are simply stating the most sensible alternative to the Virgin Birth.

God certainly is not Jewish but that whole issue is irrelevant because God has not, does not, will not, cannot have sex with a human being.

Str1977 ^{(smile back)} 13:39, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, yeah... I guess I am... 惑乱 分からん 15:22, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Str1977, even if they had a wedding ceremony, they were not married. They're not the same thing in Jewish law. Nor, it would seem, in some versions of Church law... I recall that Henry VIII used this argument in his efforts to have an inconvenient marriage annulled.

I'd be interested to learn whether conventional Christian teaching has it that Mary and Joseph ever consummated their relationship. --Dweller 16:07, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Dweller, your take is not accurate. They were married even if they did not consummate. Of course, this could be a ground for an anullment (to use canon law language) but that only applies if anyone wants to annul it.

Tradititional Christian teaching held that Mary was ever Virgin and they did not consummate their marriage. Str1977 ^{(smile back)} 00:41, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Mary and Joseph weren't Christians. They were Jews. As such, a wedding ceremony is only part of the Jewish marriage process, which in their day would have comprised separate erussin and nissuin ceremonies and intercourse. Marriage is incomplete until consummated. Just to enlighten you as to how different this is from conventional understanding of wedding ceremonies, the erussin (betrothal) would often take place a year before the nissuin (wedding), but if a couple decided not to proceed with the nissuin, they would need to divorce. --Dweller 09:31, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

The first chapter of Matthew deals with this question quite thoroughly, especially the first verse, which establishes that Jesus was descended (via Joseph) from Abraham.--Shantavira 16:25, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Matthew gives a legal descent but also says that Joseph was not the biological father of Jesus, who - according to Matthew - conceived by the Holy Spirit. Str1977 ^{(smile back)} 00:41, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

It may be of significance to note that all four Gospels make reference to Jesus' mother and brothers trying to talk with him while he is surrounded by a crowd (implying that Mary did, indeed, go on to have more children, and thus must have consummated the marriage with Joseph). V-Man737 09:53, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Brothers was used as a figure of speach; it means his friends/followers. | AndonicO ^{Talk · Sign Here} 11:20, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

I always figured Jesus used the situation to make it a figure of speech by hyperbole: "Hey, JC, your mom and brothers wanna talk to you." "My mom and brothers? Look, see these people following me? They're my mom and brothers!" V-Man737 11:49, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

See Tiberius Iulius Abdes Pantera. See also Desposyni. User:Zoe|(talk) 16:57, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Progression of disciplines

I remembered hearing (in a human geography lecture, I think) about a sequence of stages that someone came up with which all fields of study were supposed to go through.

It went something like (a completely mangled version):

1. Description: early work in a field just describes observations (what?)
2. Categorization: later work groups observations
3. Theorization: finally, (why? / how?)

My question is, who came up with it and what did it actually look like (I think it's fairly well-known).

Thanks, --Halidecyphon 14:16, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm bored.

Help me out! 206.176.119.180 16:45, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Click on the Random article link to read a random Wikipedia article. Or if you want something more active, take a look at the list of tasks atWikipedia:Community Portal. If you are new to Wikpedia, you can learn more about how it works by starting at Wikipedia:Introduction. Gandalf61 16:53, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

That's no good anymore. Now 1 in 5 articles you get will be a stupid, boring stub about some municipality or county. I wish there was a "random article" from inside a category — Kieff 22:52, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Check out Wikitravel[12]. Vranak

Get StumbleUpon. Someoneinmyheadbutit'snotme 21:36, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

tennis

What is the largest number of tennis balls that can be stacked in a pyramid on a tennis racket? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 151.38.127.235 (talk) 17:29, 16 January 2007 (UTC).

Wouldn't that largely depend on the size of the racket? Oversized ones can be about twice as big as old, wooden ones used in the past. --Wirbelwindヴィルヴェルヴィント (talk) 18:44, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

one, the rest would fall off :]Hidden secret 7 19:19, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

I can make a big one (the largest I know of); my mid-size (100 square in.) raquet can hold 35 balls. | AndonicO ^{Talk · Sign Here} 11:25, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Help with finding a better-suited website for me

Hi. I've used wikipedia RD for a while now, but I tend to get frustrated with it when asking about political stuff because almost everybody here is a libertarian, and nobody shares my views.(For example, I asked the question above about animal rights.) Does anybody know a political website that I would like? I favor policies that support people as a collective and favor policies that further national objectives, and disapprove of policies that support individual "pursuit of happiness", private ownership of the means of production(I favor state ownership), and disapprove of unnecessary pursuits. Of course this is brief and doesn't go below the surface of my beliefs, but hopefully you can get the jist and can help me. Another possibility is that Wikipedia's libertarians will insult me and be unhelpful, and I hope this doesn't happen.--216.164.249.90 19:55, 16 January 2007 (UTC) Also, as a bonus, if you help me instead of saying I shouldn't ask for this on the RD, I won't be here to bother you anymore.--216.164.249.90 19:58, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

em.. maybe a link from here? http://www.socialistparty.org.uk/Links.htm --Larry laptop 20:00, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

You want a website where people are just going to agree with your views? I find that I learn more from being exposed to opinions I don't already have. The website http://forum.darwinawards.com has forums, including one on politics- they probably get a decent cross-section of ideologies there. Friday (talk) 20:05, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Ok, I want to summarize your statements here, let me know if I'm wrong. First, You believe that almost everyone here is libertarian. Second, you are really looking for a website that has completely different views from libertarianism. Third, You decide that the best source to ask for a anti-libertarian website is... a bunch of libertarians on the RD. Good luck with that. --Measure 21:17, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

This question is on a contentious topic. Answerers: please provide citations to well-sourced, accepted facts. Please do not re-hash the debate over this topic here on the Reference Desk.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Hiocrite (talk • contribs)

I apologize to Mr. Contentious Topic dialog box. And, if needed, to 216. --Measure 21:45, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Odd straight path across upper northeast Canada

What is the wide straight path (currently white) that crosses Labrador or upper northeastern Quebec for what seems to be hundreds of miles? It occasionally angles off to the southeast but remains straight to an amazing degree. I saw it from too high up to be able to judge its actual width, but it looks like at least the size of a six-lane highway. I was thinking Hydro-Quebec, but I couldn't see any power lines, or pipe lines. It was most mysterious. Mothperson cocoon 20:04, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

To me, it sounds like it was probably power lines. You would not be able to see the thin power lines and metal supports from high in the air. However, a swath of vegetation is normally cut back beneath power lines, and you could have seen this snow-covered swath from the air. Marco polo 21:12, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

That's what I was kind of expecting. But from where to where? There were no settlements anywhere in sight. It was a vast wasteland of snow and rock, and this line had to be going from somewhere to somewhere else (which is why I thought it might be Hydro-Quebec). It was a little creepy, such a straight wide path going on indefinitely. I really would like to know for sure what it was. We can't put such major marks on the earth without a lot of people knowing what they are. Or maybe we can. The Nazca lines of the future. Eh? Mothperson cocoon 21:30, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

This shows their system map, with a big straight line right to the Churchill Falls power dam. [13] --Zeizmic 23:26, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

That's it! Thank you very much, Zeizmic. Mothperson cocoon 06:12, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

The Caine Mutiny Court Martial Verdict.

I know the above novel was fictional, but had the events occurred in fact, and had Lt. Maryk been found guilty as charged by his Court Martial, what would have been his punishment under the then current US Navy Regulations - perhaps they remain the same today? Would he have been hanged from the yardarm perhaps?

Our articles claim that in the book, he is not charged with mutiny - it is less clear from the article what the charge was in the movie. The U.S. military does still retain the use of the death penalty; however, as the only execution for mutiny in the U.S. Navy was for the USS Somers incident in 1842, it seems unlikely. Rmhermen 01:02, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

In the novel, the court martial charge was "Conduct to the Prejudice of Good Order and Discipline".—eric 02:30, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

According to this [14], the last example of this kind of hanging (usually resulting in slow strangulation rather than the neck being broken) took place in 1860, ye swab. Clarityfiend 05:44, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

That was punishment by a different Navy for a different offense. Rmhermen 05:49, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

And your point is what? That the USN would resurrect a method of execution last used over 80 years ago? Clarityfiend 07:45, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

if the laws back then are the same today (I havne't looked into that), I'd say yeah, he would be hung, to the consternation of great crowds of angry people against capital punishment. V-Man737 06:01, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Re: New entry

To whom it may concern:

How do I make a new entry? Like, a new page all my own?

Thanks!!!

~~Smskid123~~

Just type the page name into the search bar and then click the red link in "You searched for <page> [Index]"

206.176.119.180 21:23, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Please see here and here.Serenaacw 22:14, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Please note that a new article you create will not be "all your own".  --Lambiam^Talk 22:57, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Bicycle wiki...?

Is there a wiki devoted to bicycle assembly, repair and maintenance? I can find lots of excellent sites on the web that are not Wikis but none that are. -- 71.100.10.48 22:36, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Bikiwiki looks promising. V-Man737 03:17, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

-O They even have wikis for that?! | AndonicO ^{Talk · Sign Here} 11:31, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Sidewalk projects basis of priority..?

How are sidewalk projects in an urban area given priority? Is it a political (favoritism) or "squeaky wheel gets the grease" method or is the assessment of every project in an urban area based on the degree of improvement the work will provide for each necessary user on the basis of:

1. the level of necessity for its use (such as it being the only way to cross a river),

2. the level of safety (such as whether holes are hidden by puddles),

3. the number of necessary users (such as the number of people that must use it to cross a river), and

4. monetary cost?

By who's mind (or minds) and by what method is the significance of such criteria determined?

-- Barringa 23:10, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

In New York City the building owners are responsible for maintaining the sidewalks, so the level of maintenance depends on how much money the owner has that they want to spend on the sidewalk. -THB 23:55, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

This is just off the cuff, but I think in certain cities, a sidewalk code is eventually instituted, that says new improvements to lots must include the addition of a sidewalk, but older properties are not forced to build a sidewalk on their property... unless they apply for a permit to improve said property. --Measure 23:59, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

A few thinks later, it's really up to the specific urban area how these things are decided. I don't think there's a federal sidewalk program in the USA, anyhow. (Although with the size of our government, I wouldn't be surprised...) --Measure 00:09, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

You're substantially correct. As a community grows, the local governing body may implement requirements that new developments improve the streets as they build, and "build out" to the ultimate road configuration along the frontage of that property. So you may see a new development of houses having a nice three-lane road with sidewalks, curbs, gutters, and planter strips, but it will be adjacent to older homes with no sidewalks, open drainage ditches, and a narrower road.

And the Federal Government is involved in that it has (again, for the U.S.) enacted the Americans with Disabilities Act which does enforce minimum standards for accessibility in new construction. This is why new sidewalks will be 5' wide, with large curb cuts and wheelchair ramps, whereas older sidewalks are narrower, and have substandard wheelchair ramps, among other things. So the federal government is not mandating where we build sidewalks, but it does enforce the standards to which they are built.

To answer some of the original questions, many factors go into sidewalk projects, several of which you have listed: safety, access, number of users, and cost. An area with a high volume of school-age children and also vehicle traffic above certain threshholds (volume, speed), will easily merit the construction of new sidewalks to provide paths for the children to get to school. Unfortunately, environmental requirements make some areas more costly to develop, especially if they contain wetlands or other critical areas. There's no one easy formula, and yes, sometimes it does boil down to the squeaky wheel getting the grease. If an influential town councillor wants a sidewalk in his neighborhood, he may very well get one during the next construction season. 192.168.1.1 7:55pm, 16 January 2006 (PST) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.112.144.196 (talk) 04:01, 17 January 2007 (UTC).

Views on everything - say Boo to a goose

Why is it that some people seem to have views on every subject after a few drinks? whereas normally they might not even say Boo to a goose--Light current 00:37, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

See the article on drunkenness. -THB 01:12, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Although, to be honest, the article only mentions how alcohol impairs a person, not actually how it affects a person, which could be quite interesting to read about, actually. 惑乱 分からん 01:41, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

effects of alcohol on the body gives details about the different aspects of this. V-Man737 02:22, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Make a user

How do you make a user on wikipedia?

If you aren't already signed in, on the upper-right hand corner of almost every page there is the option "Sign in / create account." If you click on that, you are given options and instructions to create a new account. V-Man737 01:23, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Different types of mail

Hi, I am trying to find out about different types of mail. What is 1st class mail, 2nd class mail, and so on. thank you —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.101.51.190 (talk) 01:42, 17 January 2007 (UTC).

The Postal Service The USPS article is very in-depth and useful (assuming you are referring to the US postal service); apparently second, third, fourth-class mail is redefined in these days. Definitely worth a look. V-Man737 01:54, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

• The questioners use of 1st class makes me suspect they're talking about British postal services. - Mgm|^(talk) 09:00, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

The IP address seems to be from the United States, and "1st class" mail is a common term in the USPS as well as Britain; it implies the existence of 2nd and 3rd class mail, too. V-Man737 10:00, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Your face is gonna freeze like that if you keep making that silly face!

We've all heard that from our moms at one time, and I'm wondering if that saying has any truth to it. A couple years ago, my eyesight got pretty bad, and I was without contacts or glasses for about a year to a year and a half. During that time, being a student, I needed to see things on the board that the teacher was demonstrating, so I compensated by pulling on the sides of my eyes to make my vision better. From what I understand, doing that manipulates the lens and makes things clearer. But, I'm wondering if doing that a lot over a long period of time (a year to a year and a half) would possibly make my eyes appear more "squinty", if you will, or to appear as if I was of Asian descent. Thanks for any input. P.S. If I didn't explain anything well enough, i.e. how I pulled on my eyes to make my vision better, just ask and I'll try to clarify. --71.117.43.124 03:04, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

It is conceivably possible to get cramps in your face; I've not ever heard of it happening outside of old wives' tales, though (That article mentions it and links to Bell's palsy as well as providing a link to a website explaining the tale). Squinting doesn't squash your eyeball; rather, it limits the amount of light that enters the eye, making it easier to distinguish lines. Focusing on near or far objects will, however, cause the eye to stretch or compress the lens. V-Man737 03:15, 17 January 2007 (UTC) (edit: I can see why squinting might be frowned upon, however, since it might lead to unwanted wrinkles later in life. V-Man737 03:22, 17 January 2007 (UTC))

No, squinting is like reducing the size of your pupil, or having a smaller aperture on a camera: less light will arrive but depth of field is increased so you see out of focus things clearer. --antilived^{T | C | G} 03:25, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

...A more accurate way of describing it... V-Man737 03:41, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Beard with no moustache?

Barber's guide to men's facial hair styles, circa 1900.

Is there a name for it? Every time I see a man wearing a neat trimmed beard but no moustache, I think of the Amish, but I've never heard a name for that practice. The article on the Amish has an explanation of why they trim their moustaches, but does not give a name for it. 192.168.1.1 7:50pm, 16 January 2006 (PST) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.112.144.196 (talk) 03:50, 17 January 2007 (UTC).

This site actually refers to it as "the Amish style;" these forumists(eh?) refer to it as a "jaw beard;" List of types of facial hair lists numerous variations. V-Man737 04:01, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

I always think of it as a "Thomas Keneally beard", but I know that's not it's proper name. Curiously, there's a reference to the Amish in his article. JackofOz 04:06, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

It is probably something to the effect of "Any Amish man would be proud to have a beard like Keneally's." (My first reaction to that link was "wow.") V-Man737 04:13, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Banking

Could anyone please tell me what study I need to do, under which program should I study in order to work in a bank. I want to work in Bank. And what are the types of Jobs in Banking. I am from Ontario, and which college could offer better education? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.52.4.64 (talk) 05:22, 17 January 2007 (UTC).

(edit conflict) The banks I've dealt with require a "bottom up" approach — entry-level working as a teller for a while, and working your way up through the ranks. As far as programs or education, they usually require a high school diploma for entry-level, and taking accounting and business-oriented classes in college is not a bad idea for the promotion part. V-Man737 05:57, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

The above is one path to working in a bank branch. Another path to working in a branch, and especially at headquarters, is to first get a degree in accounting and finance. This would likely allow you to skip working as a teller. Also, since banking is computer intense, a computer science degree, especially with an emphasis in database administration, could also be helpful. StuRat 14:39, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

W. Butcher woodworking tools

I have a very old woodworking plane. It has the name W. Butcher which I understand was a company located in Sheffield, England in the 19th century.

I am interested in verifying the information above and learning more about this company.

Thank you. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.77.148.128 (talk) 05:59, 17 January 2007 (UTC).

OSV says about a chisel with the same name on it: "William Butcher is listed in Sheffield, England as an edge-tool manufacturer from 1821-1825." Tilthammer here enumerates the life adventures of Butcher. Unfortunately, Wikipedia's article on William Butcher is not about the man you speak of; this would be a good time to encourage someone to start that article! V-Man737 06:36, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes, such an article may prevent some tool from chiseling or reaming a person who thinks they just have a plane old tool to sell. StuRat 15:11, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Awl right, that was between plane silliness and plumb dingbatty. V-Man737 15:24, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

The future is us

There's a saying that goes something like this - "We've seen the future, and it is us." There may originally have been another word instead of future... Does anyone know where the saying originally came from? A Google search turns up a lot of people playing on the saying - "We've seen the future, and it is _____," with the blank something humorous, or whatever... but does anyone know where it initially comes from? zafiroblue05 | Talk 06:18, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Everything I am digging up is either directly or indirectly leading me to Lincoln Steffens, whose original statement "I have been over into the future, and it works" is often misquoted "I have seen the future, and it works." Somewhere along the line (nowhere is very clear to this) the quote seems to have been adopted as a boast - replacing "works" with "is us." In the most serious articles using the quote, it is usually in reference to the progression of human evolution and related topics, leading one to wonder whether Charles Darwin may actually have something to do with it...? V-Man737 06:46, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

(edit) also, this website says that Cesar Chavez said "...We have seen the future, and the future is ours.” This may have been a part of the adaptation of Steffens' quote. V-Man737 06:57, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

(edit) on third thought, some sites attribute the quote in its fullness to Walt Kelly, in his creation Pogo, although mostly these sites seem to have less WP:V and WP:N than the first references I posted. V-Man737 06:59, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

The Walt Kelly quote is actually "We've seen the enemy, and he is us!" 惑乱 分からん 12:02, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

American Footage

Why is it that whenever American footage (such as imported news reports and ads, but not newer TV shows) is shown on TV, they appear different (here in Australia at least)? The pictures seem more greyed out and less colourful. Is this to do with converting NTSC to PAL? 203.208.88.170 07:04, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

I've not a clue; however, I actually think of American news as being too colourful, if you get my drift ;-) V-Man737 07:10, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

See Refresh rate#Televisions - European and American TVs run on different frequencies, and Australia uses the European model. To me, American shows always look grainy on a regular TV. Natgoo 07:45, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Hmmm, are TV shows converted to European standard, or are they just aired from better copies? 惑乱 分からん 12:04, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

365 years

Two questions on one concept:

1. Is there a special term for an amount of time equal to 365 years?
2. Does this amount of time have significance other than religiously?

V-Man737 12:33, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

See Common year. Isn't the significance that of everyday usage and common sense approximation, rather than a specifically religious one? ---Sluzzelin 13:24, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

In ancient Egypt there was a period called a Sothic cycle which was comprised of four periods of 365 years each. This was essentially a mechanism for handling the fact that a solar year has an actual length of about 365.25 days... much as we now use 'leap days'. Also, the biblical figure Enoch was said to have lived for 365 years and this has subsequently been taken to have various possible significances. You might also be interested in the Great year concept, which is the period required for procession of the equinoxes (~25750 years). --CBD 13:31, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

So (summing up my recent learnings), for the Sothic cycle, the significance is that the Egyptians ignored the extra quarter day per sidereal year, leading to lagging behind more and more until, 1460 of their years later, a full 1460 quarter days (365) had accumulated (thus actually being 1461 years later), landing them right back on-cycle with an otherwise 365.25-day year system... So, if there were exactly 365 days in a year, they wouldn't have needed the Sothic system of coping with fractions of a day. Considering this, is there any other significance to "365 years"? — BTW, thanks for the link to the Great year, it was fascinating! (although it was a tangent from my original intent... Now, if the precession took 365 years, that would be extremely interesting. My focus is on whether 365 years has any kind of real significance, and to my consternation I am finding dubious website after dubious website encouraging me to worship Enoch or some other religious concept.) V-Man737 13:58, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

No, there is no real significance. StuRat 15:06, 17 January 2007 (UTC)