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"includes any analysis or synthesis of published material that serves to reach <em>or imply<em> [my emphasis] a conclusion not stated by the sources.
"includes any analysis or synthesis of published material that serves to reach <em>or imply<em> [my emphasis] a conclusion not stated by the sources.
I have a number of concrete concerns regarding the information on Germany, in particular the [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=European_migrant_crisis&oldid=793674344 recently added] graph:
I have a number of concrete concerns regarding the information on Germany, in particular the [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=European_migrant_crisis&oldid=793674344 recently added] graph:
[[File:BKA_Attempted_and_commited_sexual_offences_by_immigrants_in_Germany_2012-2016.png|thumb|left|[[Bundeskriminalamt (Germany)|BKA]] Attempted and committed sexual offences by immigrants in Germany 2012-2016<ref>{{Cite book|url=https://www.bka.de/SharedDocs/Downloads/DE/Publikationen/JahresberichteUndLagebilder/KriminalitaetImKontextVonZuwanderung/KriminalitaetImKontextVonZuwanderung_2016.html|title=Kriminalität im Kontext von Zuwanderung - Bundeslagebild 2016|last=|first=|publisher=Bundeskriminalamt|year=May 2017|isbn=|location=Wiesbaden|pages=15-19}}</ref>]]
[[File:BKA Attempted and committed sexual offences by immigrants in Germany 2012-2016.png|thumb|left|[[Bundeskriminalamt (Germany)|BKA]] Attempted and committed sexual offences by immigrants in Germany 2012-2016<ref>{{Cite book|url=https://www.bka.de/SharedDocs/Downloads/DE/Publikationen/JahresberichteUndLagebilder/KriminalitaetImKontextVonZuwanderung/KriminalitaetImKontextVonZuwanderung_2016.html|title=Kriminalität im Kontext von Zuwanderung - Bundeslagebild 2016|last=|first=|publisher=Bundeskriminalamt|year=May 2017|isbn=|location=Wiesbaden|pages=15-19}}</ref>]]
# The caption reads "[[Bundeskriminalamt (Germany)|BKA]] Attempted and committed sexual offences by immigrants in Germany 2012-2016". This might give the incorrect impression that the graph is taken from the publication by the German Federal Criminal Police Office. The figures do indeed seem to have been taken (selectively) from that publication. However, the graph presented by the German authorities also shows the figures for the same offences where no immigrant suspects were involved (showing, for instance, that in 2012, immigrants were involved in only 1.8% of cases but that this increased to 9.1% in 2016).
# The caption reads "[[Bundeskriminalamt (Germany)|BKA]] Attempted and committed sexual offences by immigrants in Germany 2012-2016". This might give the incorrect impression that the graph is taken from the publication by the German Federal Criminal Police Office. The figures do indeed seem to have been taken (selectively) from that publication. However, the graph presented by the German authorities also shows the figures for the same offences where no immigrant suspects were involved (showing, for instance, that in 2012, immigrants were involved in only 1.8% of cases but that this increased to 9.1% in 2016).
# The cited publication reports that the most frequent (suspected) offence by asylum seekers and refugees is theft, mainly shoplifting,<ref>{{Cite book|url=https://www.bka.de/SharedDocs/Downloads/DE/Publikationen/JahresberichteUndLagebilder/KriminalitaetImKontextVonZuwanderung/KriminalitaetImKontextVonZuwanderung_2016.html|title=Kriminalität im Kontext von Zuwanderung - Bundeslagebild 2016|last=|first=|publisher=Bundeskriminalamt|year=May 2017|isbn=|location=Wiesbaden|page=20}}</ref> but we present a graph on sexual offences. This may not be intended to convey the message "Immigrants are raping your wives and children", but that is likely to be the inference made by some people. The news coverage (sex sells) and public concern may justify more encyclopedic coverage of sexual offences than would otherwise be the case, but we must be careful not to misrepresent the tenor of the report by selecting only the more salacious elements and ignoring the points that are highlighted.
# The cited publication reports that the most frequent (suspected) offence by asylum seekers and refugees is theft, mainly shoplifting,<ref>{{Cite book|url=https://www.bka.de/SharedDocs/Downloads/DE/Publikationen/JahresberichteUndLagebilder/KriminalitaetImKontextVonZuwanderung/KriminalitaetImKontextVonZuwanderung_2016.html|title=Kriminalität im Kontext von Zuwanderung - Bundeslagebild 2016|last=|first=|publisher=Bundeskriminalamt|year=May 2017|isbn=|location=Wiesbaden|page=20}}</ref> but we present a graph on sexual offences. This may not be intended to convey the message "Immigrants are raping your wives and children", but that is likely to be the inference made by some people. The news coverage (sex sells) and public concern may justify more encyclopedic coverage of sexual offences than would otherwise be the case, but we must be careful not to misrepresent the tenor of the report by selecting only the more salacious elements and ignoring the points that are highlighted.

Revision as of 05:03, 5 August 2017

"Exodus to Europe" move?!

What is this? The fact there wasn't agreement on whether to call it "migrant" or "refugee" doesn't necessarily justify a unilateral move to something entirely different and a word as loaded as wikt:exodus, nevermind the fact that adding "(2015-present)" is unnecessary per WP:NAMINGCRITERIA unless we have multiple of these events to describe. For some reason, I already cannot seem to be able to move the page back, but I wholeheartedly oppose the move, and would like it restored pending consensus.— Preceding unsigned comment added by LjL (talk • contribs) 22:29, 2 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Agree with above, what kind of editor takes such an ad-hoc move without discussion? Posted request Wikipedia:Requested_moves/Technical_requests#Uncontroversial_technical_requests. Spirit Ethanol (talk) 22:32, 2 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@SheriffIsInTown: you are kidding us, right? For your information, on Wikipedia, you can in fact be bold, but you should not be WP:RECKLESS, which is what you are when you single-handedly move a page that officially lacked consensus for a move. Another thing is that there is a Bold, Revert, Discuss cycle, so since Spirit Ethanol reverted you and I voiced my disagreement here, you should definitely not have reverted back with that flippant edit summary. Do you really think you're the "sheriff" here? I've seen a bit too many "slightly too bold" edits coming from you lately, if I may point that out. LjL (talk) 23:01, 2 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@LjL: You do not WP:OWN this article, please see WP:RMUM, I considered this to be a best title and moved the page to this title per WP:RMUM: "Anyone can be bold and move a page without discussing it first and gaining an explicit consensus on the talk page." I do not need your permission before making a bold edit. There are sources which call them "migrants" and there are sources that call them "refugees" and there are editors who favor one title and there are editors who favor the other. This can be the most WP:NPOV title. This also cannot be called a "European crisis". European crisis means that "a crisis happening inside Europe". This is an exodus to Europe which consists of migrants and refugees. Please do not make empty and baseless accusations that I am making reckless edits. To me, your edits can qualify as reckless as well. Sheriff | ☎ 911 | 23:28, 2 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The word exodus has biblical connotations. See Exodus, The Exodus. Perhaps rename to The Second Exodus? Spirit Ethanol (talk) 23:36, 2 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
That's why I put in timeline in the title and once the issue is over it can be changed to 2015-nn Exodus to Europe. The timeline in the title and then the article itself describes what exodus is that.
Guys, take off your stereotypical glasses and consider it. It's not that bad that you think. Sheriff | ☎ 911 | 23:42, 2 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
This also cannot be called a "European crisis". European crisis means that "a crisis happening inside Europe".
Are you daft? Not only is the Schengen zone fragmenting but tens of thousands of asylum seekers and other migrants are suffering in Greece. I even read a news article that reported that many migrants from Iraq returned home from Germany, one of the two nations that have welcomed migrants the most, having found life there miserable. Dyspeptic skeptic (talk) 23:56, 3 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

My rationale for administrator request to move back

I am echoing Spirit Ethanol's request to move back to previous name after WP:BOLD move renamed it despite previous lack of consensus on any move. The new name was assigned without consensus and the word wikt:Exodus has strong connotations and is far from neutral. Additionally, the "(2015–present)" label is unnecessary per WP:NAMINGCRITERIA as there is no confusion to be had with other similar events if a more concise title were used. Despite a move back having already been requested by Spirit Ethanol, I am requesting this as a controversial move because the above section shows that the editor making the original move, SheriffIsInTown, is being somewhat combative about defending it, even to the point of reverting a bit flippantly when pointed to the lack of consensus here. LjL (talk) 23:47, 2 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I agree the page had to be moved back and that further moves need to be discussed first. I think that "Exodus to Europe" is not adequate, primarily because "European refugee crisis" and "European migrant crisis" are the only WP:COMMONNAMES of the subject of this article. Nykterinos (talk) 22:56, 3 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Euroskeptic parties increase in popularity.

Euroskeptic parties have been growing in popularity since 2008. Is there any citation to support the claim that their rise has been due (at least in part) to the migrant crisis? Preferably one that's not just from some journalist getting, and not behind a paywall. Thanks Simon8699 (talk) 12:32, 16 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

A point espoused by the "Leave" campaigners for Brexit was that if Turkey became a member of the EU, migrant flows from Syria would essentially be able to reach the UK (due to the perceived porous border with Turkey and assumed subsequent adoption of Turkey into the Schengen Area). Either a section or a point made about this would enhance readers' understanding of the connection between Brexit and the migrant crisis. Jdurkee (talk) 22:41, 4 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

EU-Turkey deal

So,is Turkey real have a chance that Turkish nationals could access to Schengen passport-free zone even Turkey does not reach the EU passport-free standard? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nero011 (talk • contribs) 11:18, 23 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

There should be an updated paragraph regarding the latest developments regarding Turkey's threats to kill the deal. For example, biometric passports were just distributed in Turkey, which takes a step towards completing the requirements for visa liberalization. This isn't reflected in the article, however. Jdurkee (talk) 22:36, 4 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Hungarian migrant quota referendum, 2016

Welcome to edit. --Norden1990 (talk) 17:01, 12 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

American participation

I believe it deserves to be mentioned how the United States has been involved in the crisis, and how many refugees they took in (hint: it's none). Also absolutely needed is the cause, the Syrian civil war (and War in Iraq and War in Afghanistan). The leader of Raqqa is being slaughtered sliently stated that if [we] wanted the migrant crisis to stop, we should end the war in Syria. Bataaf van Oranje (Prinsgezinde) (talk) 08:31, 26 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Info about the number of refugees resettled to the USA was included in the International reactions section, but someone removed it arguing that it's not directly related to the European crisis. It may be restored (by the way, Obama increased the number of resettled refugees to 100,000 a year; only Germany accepted more refugees in the EU in 2015). Some of the motivations of refugees and migrants are explained in the Origins and motivations section; it may be expanded, but the wars in Syria, Afghanistan etc. are already mentioned. Nykterinos (talk) 21:25, 26 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
What you (Nykterinos) are saying is of course true: the origins section does mention wars in Syria, Iraq, and Afghanistan. After all, this sort of information could hardly be suppressed. But i think Prinsgezinde has a point as well, that the US government is largely culpable through its wars against various Muslim states, including Syria. However, it may well be impossible to include it in the article since it is largely absent from the narrative presented by sources that are reliable in the sense of the wikipedia. Son of eugene (talk) 07:19, 23 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Images and graphs in this article

Consensus reached that some images should be removed, especially those that are not very directly relevant. (non-admin closure) Dionysodorus (talk) 02:24, 7 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

There are so many images and graphs in this article, affecting the layout of the page. Which ones shall any of them be retained? Removed? Also, which image and/or graph should be in the lead? --George Ho (talk) 19:59, 4 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

What do you mean by affecting the layout of the page? There are certainly many images and graphs in the article, but I don't think they make it more difficult to read - neither on laptop, nor tablet, nor smartphone. On the contrary, I think they are informative - especially graphs and maps -, so I would keep all of them. As for the lead, this photo was chosen because it's a featured picture on Commons and en.wiki, whereas this map, albeit updated only to June 2015, is the richest in information, as it shows both the main entry routes into the EU and the number of asylum applicants per country, with their origins. It may be replaced with this map, which is updated to December 2015, but it's less informative, as it only shows the number of asylum applicants. Nykterinos (talk) 00:29, 5 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I crossed that part out to make the rationale more neutral. George Ho (talk) 08:38, 5 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, please prune and get better images. It does look like some are random snapshots rather than encyclopedic article support, or at least all these pictures of a crowd or fence that doesn't show anything in particular and are not adding to the text -- that need caption to even say what it is -- seem unhelpful and by far not the best choices. I suggest it would be better to WP norms and to the story to show the more-covered iconic photos, ones of massive crowds on road rather than all these of 20-ish standing somewhere, of drowned child that raised outcry and sinking boats rather than a few of small craft landing somewhere, of crowd swarming over large fence rather than all these images of some random chain-link or unreadable sign. The following images I think could be removed, in order of appearance.  :
  • a boat at Lesbos (no particular significance to the header or overall),
  • Hans Rosling in front of a podium at Carriers Responsibility (no significant content),
  • Migrants stopped by Macedonian police at Origins
(just a crowd, no significant content, match nothing in article text),
  • Migrants along Balkan crossing in Migrant routes (no significant content, match nothing re article text),
  • Wien Westbahnhof railway station in Austria section (same issue ...
  • Marking of a minefield in Croatia section (picture of sign, not adding much)
  • Migrants arriving in Munich (mislabeled - these are police in a train station, still no help to article)
  • Migrants waiting for their entry to Germany (crowd in the dark -- no significant content, no match to text)
  • Protesters gather outside Cologne Cathedral (crowd with flags ...)
  • Syrian refugees arrive by boat from Turkey (no particular significance to this boat or date)
  • Hungarian fence in hungary section (seriously, just a photo of chain-link fence does not add value)
  • Migrants in Hungary walking to Austria (back view of about 60 people walking)
  • Migrants arrived in Lampedusa (another crows of 20ish standing on some plain dock)
  • Rescued migrants near Malta (dozen folks in a boat... if the caption didn't say rescued you'd never know)
  • The Melilla border fence (another picture of chain-link fencing)
  • Border crossing between Russia and Norway (another picture of a sign ...)
  • Concert "Voices for Refugees" (not related to article text and not significant to topic)
  • Royal Navy ship HMS Enterprise (is part of text, but seeing stock photo seems removable)
  • The European Parliament (is part of text, but seeing stock photo seems removable)
  • The Knot, a monument (not part of text, doesn't help understanding)
  • Refugees strike in front of the Budapest Keleti (not part of text, no particular significance)
  • 'Syrian Refugees Welcome' rally in Vienna (not part of text, not particularly significant to topic)
  • Anti-immigration rally in Prague (it's 'anti-refugee', and not much significance or impact to topic)
  • Pro-immigration rally in Prague ('pro-refugee', still not significant or impact to topic)
  • Migrants in Budapest railway station (20ish folks look like camping out on floor near escalator...)
  • Rescued migrants are brought to southern Italian (nothing in text, not significant to topic)
  • Japanese-born Czech politician, Tomio Okamura (not very important to topic)
As a sidebar, please be careful to just follow the cites as some of these use the word refugees where the source used migrants or vice-versa. Functionally correct or not, convey what the cite is giving. I think it tends to be migrant for West Africa and refugee from Syria, but use whatever the source says. Markbassett (talk) 19:21, 5 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
What do you think, Nykterinos, about this intriguing idea? George Ho (talk) 19:29, 5 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I would obviously be happy if someone cared to "get better images" to replace the existing ones - until then, I think we'd better use the ones which are available on Commons rather than removing almost all of them (by the way, it wasn't me who added any of the photos mentioned above, so I think there was a wider consensus to use them). Anyway, some of those photos could indeed be removed, feel free to do it on a case-by-case basis. I would leave those which show migrants even if they are not huge crowds; I would definitely leave the one in the lead, which is a featured picture perfectly showing the way in which most refugees and migrants arrived in the EU in 2015 (it was even used by the Economist on the cover of a report about the EU's crises); I would leave Rosling's video (it's a video, not an image) explaining the EU's directives on carrier's responsibility, etc. Nykterinos (talk) 21:41, 5 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Nykterinos - photos should at least be in the right section e.g. something labeled Greece is misplaced in 'Origins' section, which would do better with something like Syrian Civil War map. Markbassett (talk) 20:14, 10 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I endorse a lot said by Markbassett above, photographs of barbed wire fencing are the same the world over, it might as well be the railway line near my house. Do 'background' images add anything, I was thinking of map of Schengen area, photo of European Parliament etc, which do not relate directly to the article and which are on the relevant pages. Pincrete (talk) 11:13, 8 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support removal - There's waaaaaaay to many images on there and it makes Commons redundant at this point - I would say the graphs and images need to be cut down as so far there's 45 images (and that's without the "Image:" search!), 10-20 would be sufficent and I'm not fussed what gets removed - Cover your eyes and just smack delete. –Davey2010Talk 23:55, 21 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Which images and graphs to remove?

I already removed images of border fences that has no migrants in them. I also removed a monument that symbolizes a summit about migration rather than struggle of migrants. I could not remove pictures of migrants yet. Now that consensus from previous discussion agrees that there are still too many files in the article, we can discuss types of images. What about an image of protestors reacting to New Year's Eve rape in Germany? I don't think it adds anything to the article. --George Ho (talk) 18:21, 13 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Bias

I think that the paragraph about Italian reactions is inaccurate and defamatory. Mafia Capitale scandal was caused by a restricted number of corrupted local politicians, businessmen and criminals, whereas thousands of migrants/refugees have been rescued and assisted by Italian Coast Guard. In Europe Italy and Greece are the most exposed countries to both the economic crisis and the migrant crisis. In addition Pope Francis is an authority of Vatican City. You should add more information.Cats' photos (talk) 18:42, 15 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Migrant attacks

I'm surprised that there is minimal mention of the numerous terrorist attacks along with chaos and disorder that has been caused by the migrant flow into Europe. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.151.44.248 (talk) 19:49, 14 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

It's tough to draw a correlation between the migrants and an explicit increase in attacks. While there certainly are attacks done by migrants in Europe, I'd argue those for the large part are the exception. This is a subjective issue that, if included, would detract from the neutral stance this article requires. Jdurkee (talk) 22:46, 4 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Removed content

I've removed some sourcing that was recently added, "The Right Scoop" and another site, "The Political Insider". Both were written by someone called "SOOPERMEXICAN" and I'm not sure if this was a sneaky way of trying to insert this into the website. Either way, it doesn't look like it'd be considered a RS. Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡) 10:10, 15 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Migrant casualties

I think we need a bit more on deaths and other mistreatment migrants suffer en route to the EU (and even within the EU). There are some good RS out there: [1], [2], [3], [4]. This should probably be linked to criticisms of the "pull" factor of the welcoming refugee policy in Western Europe, above all in Germany, as seen here: [5] and [6]. I'd take care of it, but I haven't the time right now. Gabrielthursday (talk) 17:22, 18 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Migrant Health

The topic of migrant health could be added to this article in order to provide more information on the standpoint of overall health affairs in correlation to the migrant crisis.Skanj (talk) 20:49, 4 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The article probably needs to be updated.

The German pushed quota system which would see enforced settlement of Middle Eastern and African populations to European countries was rejected and is now no longer valid, mostly due to efforts of Visegrad Group(Poland, Czech Republic, Slovakia and Hungary). Last month EU itself admitted that the quota system won't be enacted.

--MyMoloboaccount (talk) 19:29, 17 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

It probably wouldnt have worked anyway. Refugees originally accepted by the Czech Republic left for Germany [7], as did those accepted by Lithuania.[8] Alexpl (talk) 23:55, 17 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Update the first image

The image is accurate for January to June 2015. Considering how dynamic the refugee crisis is, it's likely outdated and should be replaced. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.172.177.228 (talk) 02:57, 22 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Related article List of migrant vehicle incidents in Europe

Hello everyone, a sort of related article, List of migrant vehicle incidents in Europe, has only three entries from August 2015 and has not been updated since. I'm asking here whether anyone could have a look at it and help update it maybe? It's got other problems and I sort of think it may be a possible deletion candidate if it is not updated. Thanks for looking at it, and also thanks for anyone who helps improve it.  Seagull123  Φ  23:20, 2 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Split

This 17k+ word article has >500 footnotes. That's too big. I'd love to see some thought about splitting this into a reasonably-sized summary article that is fairly stable with drill-downs into articles about specific situations that are more volatile. Feedback encouraged! Lfstevens (talk) 02:59, 2 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

No article protection???

As an IP editor, I cannot f***ing believe this article is open to IP editors! The abuses are ongoing, and flagrant.184.145.42.19 (talk) 03:01, 12 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

What abuses?--Nowa (talk) 15:24, 12 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@184.145.42.19: It's really not as bad as some other articles on my watchlist. In any case, anyone (you) can open a request for article protection. --BurritoBazooka Talk Contribs 15:42, 12 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The last ip edit to be reverted is from December 26 and it wasn't rampant vandalism in that case either, just a lack of oversight of WP:NPOV (if you don't count the recent good faith edit reverted for lack of consensus). Saturnalia0 (talk) 17:09, 12 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Wording of page

I am concerned about the wording of the title of this article. A migrant is someone who willingly moves to another country for a better life e.g. better economic prospects. A refugee is someone who has no choice but to flee their country because their life is at risk and they are being persecuted. A refugee is not a migrant and a migrant is not a refugee. The two words have got conflated in recent times, but in principle remain entirely different concepts. I have seen that the page "European refugee crisis" redirects to this one. Should there not be a separate page for "European refugee crisis", because this one is not suitable. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kats987124 (talk • contribs) 11:55, 10 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

This is a wiki encyclopedia. Not a SJW politically correct soap box. 151.225.204.78 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 19:20, 15 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The crowds include both migrants and refugees from various countries. Their lack of documentation makes establishing their point of origin and their motivation difficult. Dimadick (talk) 23:10, 19 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Kats987124: There have been a few discussions already about the name of the article regarding "refugee" and "migrant". See: Current title (1 september 2015), Migrants and refugees, Requested move 19 March 2016, Wording of page. See there for some of the reasons why the article currently is called European migrant crisis. In regards about splitting the page, see this page about splitting articles.  Seagull123  Φ  17:17, 2 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The whole article is full of right wing propaganda. i deleted/changed some things like "most are economic migrants" (which is bullshit)... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.217.63.215 (talk) 18:50, 25 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Islamic state agents among refugees

The sentence and a small number of hostile agents including Islamic State militants has been removed three times, the first without explanation, the second claimed it was a rumor, though the source does not say that, and the third claims WP:UNDUE, though the Reuters story received ample coverage (Deutsch Welle, Business Insider, Telegraph, etc). If that isn't enough, the same claim that Reuters reported in February has been made again by German authorities later that year at different moments, being picked up by The Wall Street Journal, Politico, etc. I'm undoing the removal one more time, since I believe there is due weight for its inclusion. Perhaps more sources should be included? Saturnalia0 (talk) 17:43, 23 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Numbers outdated, wrong citizenship problem

According to research in the year 2016, 40% of Moroccans who came via Greece pretended to be syrian. Pretending a wrong citizenship was not an exception.[9][10] In 2015 also many people from Morocco (10.258), Algera (13.883) applied for Asylum in Germany, not regarding those pretending wrong citizenship.[11] This article does not mention this, numbers mentioned in the article can be considered as outdated or questionable. - Haaklich (talk) 21:16, 30 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

A new statistics report from the United Nations Refugee Agency

According to a new UNHCR statistics report, less than 3% of the immigrants currently arriving in Europe are actual refugees.

This is extremely important and relevant new information, and should be cited somewhere within this article.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4442910/Less-3-migrants-reached-Italy-refugees.html

https://data2.unhcr.org/en/documents/download/53271

David A (talk) 09:05, 5 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

As of February 2017 Daily Mail ceased to be considered a reliable source for the English Wikipedia. The reason for this is exactly the sort of misinformed conjecture you posted here - the article which you point to cites UNHCR as saying that only 2.65% of those who arrived in Italy were actually granted asylum there. The UNHCR never said that this is the number of "actual refugees", it did say that 40% of arrivals are in "need of international protection", and they also mentioned that half of all those who arrived in Italy never requested asylum in the first place, probably because they moved onto other countries within the Schengen area like Germany or Sweden (Italy is not the preferred destination for the vast majority of migrants/refugees). This all means that the percentage of granted asylums for those who requested it is actually over 5%, and that there is a number of possible explanations for this - Italian bureaucracy, lack of housing capacity, political pressures, etc. - which may or may not have anything to do with whether they are "actual refugees". InflatableSupertrooper (talk) 12:16, 5 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The article anyway is about those reaching Italy, cannot be applied in the same manner to all routes including Greece and Balkans or Spain. MonsterHunter32 (talk) 22:46, 20 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Legality of those coming

The article states that the refugees came illegally, but the UN source used in the lead only hints at the economic migrants coming in an illegal manner as they are bound to a nation's law for travelling to it. It states that refugees are entitled to international protection, but doesn't seem to make it clear whether the way they arrived is illegal. In such case I had to change the lead until there was clarification.

Reliable sources preferably from the UN need to be used about what should be defined illegal. It is established that economic migrants came in an illegal manner.But does the same apply to those from conflict-ridden countries? I think answer to these questions are needed:

  • Is it under international statues legal for people from war-torn countries to flee to any country per international statues even if they already may be in a "safe country"?
  • Based on that, this may sound stupid but are they allowed to choose in which country they want to live temporarily?
  • Does the migrant crisis include people directly fleeing from war-torn countries directly to European nations. If yes, then is it still legal?
  • If there is something illegal, then what it is. What kind of travel is legal or illegal for those from war-torn countries?

Thank you. MonsterHunter32 (talk) 22:46, 20 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that 'legality' is irrelevant to refugees. Economic migrants should be seperated textually. Pincrete (talk) 16:36, 23 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

A few new relevant articles

I need help with evaluating which of the following information that should be inserted into the article, and would appreciate help with incorporating it in an academically appropriate manner:

10000 immigrants arrive in Italy every week, and mostly want to go to northern Europe:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07/02/italy-calls-european-countries-take-migrant-ships-country-struggles/

The EU admits that extremely few of the immigrants to Europe have been actual refugees, and are rather there for economic reasons:

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/819670/Migrant-crisis-EU-admits-hardly-any-people-arriving-Italy-refugees-deportations/

Germany admits that most of the immigrants almost completely lack education and work skills:

https://amp.ft.com/content/022de0a4-54f4-11e7-9fed-c19e2700005f

Europol reports that the Islamic State is radicalising Muslim immigrants into jihadists:

https://www.europol.europa.eu/newsroom/news/islamic-state-changing-terror-tactics-to-maintain-threat-in-europe

David A (talk) 15:24, 13 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Did William Rees Mogg predict the European migration crisis in 1993?

Can someone verify if William Ress Mogg predicted the European migrant crisis in 1993? Somewhere in one of his books he laid out the argument for African migration into Europe. It could be the book that is "The Great Reckoning" from 1993. Can someone verify this please? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.96.9.102 (talk) 15:56, 14 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

A new study about German media

A new study, assembling evidence from thousands of articles published in German media about the immigration crisis in 2015, has found that it largely systematically lied about the situation and published pure propaganda:

https://www.thelocal.de/20170721/german-media-failed-to-report-refugee-crisis-honestly-study-claims David A (talk) 14:53, 26 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Immigrant crime statistics

Since there has been a lot of public discussion about immigrant crime, it is probably appropriate to discuss it in this article but it must be balanced. In particular we need to remember that original research "includes any analysis or synthesis of published material that serves to reach or imply [my emphasis] a conclusion not stated by the sources. I have a number of concrete concerns regarding the information on Germany, in particular the recently added graph:

BKA Attempted and committed sexual offences by immigrants in Germany 2012-2016[1]
  1. The caption reads "BKA Attempted and committed sexual offences by immigrants in Germany 2012-2016". This might give the incorrect impression that the graph is taken from the publication by the German Federal Criminal Police Office. The figures do indeed seem to have been taken (selectively) from that publication. However, the graph presented by the German authorities also shows the figures for the same offences where no immigrant suspects were involved (showing, for instance, that in 2012, immigrants were involved in only 1.8% of cases but that this increased to 9.1% in 2016).
  2. The cited publication reports that the most frequent (suspected) offence by asylum seekers and refugees is theft, mainly shoplifting,[2] but we present a graph on sexual offences. This may not be intended to convey the message "Immigrants are raping your wives and children", but that is likely to be the inference made by some people. The news coverage (sex sells) and public concern may justify more encyclopedic coverage of sexual offences than would otherwise be the case, but we must be careful not to misrepresent the tenor of the report by selecting only the more salacious elements and ignoring the points that are highlighted.
  3. Our article ignores the overall assessment presented at the end of the cited report, which states:
  • "Festzustellen ist, dass der weit überwiegende Teil der seit Anfang des Jahres 2015 nach Deutschland gekommenen Zuwanderer weiterhin keine Strafta¬ten begeht."[3]
Quick translation:
  • "It continues to be the case that the overwhelming majority of immigrants that came to Germany since the beginning of 2015 do not commit any offences."

The BKA report also has information about the immigrants broken down by age and sex. --Boson (talk) 12:29, 3 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ Kriminalität im Kontext von Zuwanderung - Bundeslagebild 2016. Wiesbaden: Bundeskriminalamt. May 2017. pp. 15–19.{{cite book}}: CS1 maint: year (link)
  2. ^ Kriminalität im Kontext von Zuwanderung - Bundeslagebild 2016. Wiesbaden: Bundeskriminalamt. May 2017. p. 20.{{cite book}}: CS1 maint: year (link)
  3. ^ Kriminalität im Kontext von Zuwanderung - Bundeslagebild 2016. Wiesbaden: Bundeskriminalamt. May 2017. p. 42.{{cite book}}: CS1 maint: year (link)
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