Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement
For appeals: create a new section and use the template {{Arbitration enforcement appeal}}
See also: Logged AE sanctions
Important information Please use this page only to:
For all other problems, including content disagreements or the enforcement of community-imposed sanctions, please use the other fora described in the dispute resolution process. To appeal Arbitration Committee decisions, please use the clarification and amendment noticeboard. Only autoconfirmed users may file enforcement requests here; requests filed by IPs or accounts less than four days old or with less than 10 edits will be removed. All users are welcome to comment on requests except where doing so would violate an active restriction (such as an extended-confirmed restriction). If you make an enforcement request or comment on a request, your own conduct may be examined as well, and you may be sanctioned for it. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. (Word Count Tool) Statements must be made in separate sections. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as personal attacks, or groundless or vexatious complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions. To make an enforcement request, click on the link above this box and supply all required information. Incomplete requests may be ignored. Requests reporting diffs older than one week may be declined as stale. To appeal a contentious topic restriction or other enforcement decision, please create a new section and use the template {{Arbitration enforcement appeal}}.
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Jorm
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Request concerning Jorm
- User who is submitting this request for enforcement
- Pudeo (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 23:14, 10 October 2020 (UTC)
- User against whom enforcement is requested
- Jorm (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log
- Sanction or remedy to be enforced
- Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/GamerGate#Discretionary sanctions
- Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
- 8 August 2020:
fuck off with your transphobia shit
personal attack - 27 September 2020 :
Go fuck yourself, transphobe
personal attack - 1 October 2020:
The Gamergate Controversy is a bullshit set of terms used to describe a misogynist harassment campaign without actually calling it a "harassment campaign" while also not trying to hurt the feelings of a bunch of assholes. It was started by a bunch of chucklefucks--
Battleground attitude, personal attacks etc. - 8 October 2020:
go fuck yourself
personal attack - 8 October 2020:
Masem always argues that we put the propaganda first. They did it for Gamergate - so much so that those deplorable fucks refer to them as "Based Masem". Masem will always carry water like this. Keep that in mind while developing consensus.
Battleground attitude, personal attack
- If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)
Last alerted by SMcCandlish on 9 July 2020.
- Additional comments by editor filing complaint
Diffs speak for themselves, and they are all related to the GamerGate/gender topics DS area. Especially the attack on Masem for his GamerGate editing had plenty of unneeded vitriol.
Someone opened a thread about "Attitude" on Jorm's talk page just last week. He responded with his usual "cool story, bro" shtick. --Pudeo (talk) 23:14, 10 October 2020 (UTC)
- Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested
Discussion concerning Jorm
Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.
Statement by Jorm
Everyone is expressing fear and disappointment that I'm not engaging in this but I don't see much of a point. As I get older I find my desire to engage with bullshit gets smaller and smaller but let's be clear: choosing to disengage is not my go-to action. I don't lead with it.
I find that I am about to get a stern talking to because I do not choose to engage with folk who come to my talk page with rancor. If a person comes to me looking for a fight, how should I respond? Should I get in the fight, and then be dragged before AN/I? Should I just ignore the post, and then get dragged here and called "non-responsive"?
Should I use different language to indicate that I am not going to engage? Would "I am not going to engage with you" be any better? Probably not; I think the same thing would happen: "Jorm hurt my feefees by not letting me vent my spleen at him".
Perhaps someone can provide me with language they find more acceptable.
Statement by Jayron32
Other than some salty language, at least 3 of your diffs were reverts from throw away accounts used by abusive bigots. Being told to leave with emphasis is exactly what should be done. I don't see anything there that rises to the level of sanctioning. --Jayron32 23:35, 10 October 2020 (UTC)
- Just an aside, because several people have brought it up, is that "Cool story, Bro" is the correct way to respond to obvious sealioning. These are not good faith disagreements, these are bigots hiding behind civility in an attempt to win a debate not on its merits but by baiting their opponents, and Jorm's refusal to engage with such bad faith false civility is a perfect way to handle it. --Jayron32 11:16, 17 October 2020 (UTC)
Statement by Masem
Only noting that I know about the statement Jorm made in that discussion related to me and I just let it pass and still plan on letting it pass. Its disappointing that people want to dreg that up and assume bad faith when I try to argue on neutral stances on WP, but such is the case. --Masem (t) 00:26, 11 October 2020 (UTC)
Statement by Gamaliel
In the words of GorillaWarfare: "We have picked a side, which is that LGBTQ Wikipedians are welcome here." For LGBTQ Wikipedians to be truly welcome here, we should be telling transphobes to fuck off. Gamaliel (talk) 01:54, 11 October 2020 (UTC)
Statement by Cullen 328
Personally, I do not use the "f-bomb" on Wikipedia (and very rarely in real life) but there is no consensus that the word is banned in these contexts. I encourage Jorm to select other words which are just as effective but less controversial. Trolls, haters and other purely disruptive jerks should be shown the door, quite promptly. As for Jorm's remarks about Masem, I do not see a personal attack but rather a harsh (but defensible) critique of Masem's unique philosophy of editing. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 04:06, 11 October 2020 (UTC)
Statement by SMcCandlish
This is the same sort of personally hostile battlegrounding and socio-political PoV-pushing that lead to me leaving the DS/Alert several months ago. But the editor appears to have simply doubled down. This is not about a specific word and whether it is "banned" (well know it is not). It's about intent and effects, in a long-term disruptive pattern. It's about WP:NPA, WP:CIVIL, WP:NOT, WP:DE, and WP:CIR. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 07:50, 11 October 2020 (UTC)
Statement by Sceptre
I see nothing wrong with Jorm telling bigots to go do one; encyclopaedic neutrality does not, and has never, meant neutrality outside of article-space, and demanding civility in the face of bigotry is peak paradox of tolerance. Sceptre (talk) 17:08, 11 October 2020 (UTC)
Statement by Levivich
Masem always argues that we put the propaganda first. They did it for Gamergate - so much so that those deplorable fucks refer to them as "Based Masem". Masem will always carry water like this. Keep that in mind while developing consensus.
I can't believe the above statement is being described as a defensible critique of a philosophy of editing or a legitimate behavioral concern. Lev!vich 18:51, 11 October 2020 (UTC)
As to the other comments, while I'm not one to advocate for sanctioning people for using profanity, we'd do better to be more professional, especially in mainspace edit summaries, which are the "official logs" of our articles. Telling people to "f off", even if they deserve it, doesn't make anyone look tough or cool or righteous, it just makes us all look childish for being the kind of place where profanity is used in "official" records. Lev!vich 21:47, 11 October 2020 (UTC)
Statement by Huldra
That Jorm has been dealing with some rather unsavoury editors is in no doubt, but seriously, is it not possible to make vandals feel very unwelcome without resorting to a gutter language? That seems rather untalented, me thinks. Huldra (talk) 21:18, 11 October 2020 (UTC)
Just my 2 cents: GamerGate etc, is one of the most contentious areas on Wikipedia, for sure. But I edit in the I/P area (that's why I watch WP:AE!) - hardly any less contentious area, where trolls, death- and rape-threats are 13 to the dozen ...still, such gutter language (as linked to above) are not seen (in general!) among "the regulars" there.
Why is that?
Also, I suspect if anyone regularly used such language, they would very soon no longer be "a regular"; they would be topic-banned/blocked.
Why do we allow one set of behaviour in one area, but another set of behaviour in another area?
No, I don't want Jorm sanctioned, just a clear warning that such a language will not be accepted in the future (not even when dealing with vandals who are going to "rape your wife to death before they kill you" (just to mention a pretty common threat in the I/P area)) Huldra (talk) 21:45, 13 October 2020 (UTC)
Ugh. I'm extremely unimpressed with Jorm's reply here. If people come to you "looking for a fight", you should behave with cool. Simple as that. Huldra (talk) 22:04, 15 October 2020 (UTC)
Comment by JzG
I think that changing an article to misgender someone should be an instant indef block. We should ask Jorm to dial back the rhetoric, and then go and block the trolls. Guy (help! - typo?) 22:09, 11 October 2020 (UTC)
Statement by Liz
Jorm has chosen to patrol some controversial articles which attract drive-by editors with extreme attitudes who he often effectively shooes away. I don't use the f-bomb and I don't think it is necessary to get your point across. But I can understand its use with some hostile newbies who seek to cause disruption or to radically shift articles that usually have volumes of talk page discussions that have occurred to arrive at a consensus in the article tone and wording.
What I would like to challenge him on though is his use of "Cool story, bro" to editors who are not fly-by-night but are regular editors who just are coming from a different, often opposing, perspective. It's an unnecessarily dismissive and condescending phrase that isn't an appropriate response to another editor's argument. We know that these pages can be polarizing but I think it's important to meet a serious critique from a regular editor with a counter-argument not a flippant reply.
The comment about Masem seems like old news (Gamergate was in 2014-2015!) and it is odd to be rehashing events years later, but if the comment doesn't offend Masem, I don't think we should be imposing any restrictions. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Liz (talk • contribs)
- I agree, by and large, with the admin comments below. But I'm disappointed that Jorm hasn't seen fit to at least respond to this complaint. That shows an unwillingness to engage with criticism that indicates that a stern warning might not have any effect at all. And, personally, I'd like to see Jorm continue to chase away trolls. Liz Read! Talk! 04:31, 15 October 2020 (UTC)
Statement by Grayfell
All of these edits appear appropriate in context. Transphobia is itself a violation of Wikipedia's principles, so this seems more like a witch-hunt then an actionable complaint. Also, all this tone policing and pearl-clutching over "swear words" seems disproportionate and, ironically, very immature. Grayfell (talk) 22:36, 11 October 2020 (UTC)
Statement by Shinealittlelight
Admin Swarm once told me the following [2], which to me seems relevant to the remarks Jorm made about Masem:
Comment on content, not contributors. It really is as simple as that. For example, let's say someone's being a complete prick, and everyone agrees. Is it okay to call them out on being a prick? No, it's not okay to make an accusation, even if you're not wrong. You report them to WP:AN/I with evidence of relevant policy violations, and we will block them. Let's say a user is an obvious sockpuppet. Is it okay to accuse them of being a sockpuppet? No. Again, report to admins with evidence. Let's say someone obviously has a strong bias. Is it okay to imply that they are being motivated by their bias? No, as long as they're complying with policies, their obvious bias is irrelevant. The overwhelming majority of us have strong biases, and the overwhelming majority of us do not POV-push in articles. If someone is editing with an obvious WP:COI, such as a user deleting negative content from an article about their business, of course that's not tolerated. But, even then, you don't attack their character or argue with them, you simply report them to us so we can handle them accordingly. It's really pretty simple. Don't over think it. If you're going to make a negative comment about someone personally, don't.
Shinealittlelight (talk) 22:53, 11 October 2020 (UTC)
Statement by Yair rand
Some topic areas are difficult to work in, but if one can't maintain a proper level of decorum and civility while doing so, one should not edit there. Routine use of comments with such a level of hostility towards other editors, or such aggressive use of profanity in general, is never acceptable.
If it appears that the Jorm is expressing clear unwillingness to change their behaviour, I don't think a warning will even do anything. Users that can't cooperate in a civil and productive manner with those they disagree with should not be allowed to continue to participate here, unless we believe that their behaviour is going to change. --Yair rand (talk) 23:36, 13 October 2020 (UTC)
Statement by Bus stop
Jorm begins with the assumption that they are 100% correct. Jorm's approach in what is ostensibly a collaborative editing environment is the my way or the highway approach. Jorm's supporters might argue that Jorm does not mince words. I think WP:BATTLEGROUND more appropriately describes their style of interaction. Bus stop (talk) 00:48, 18 October 2020 (UTC)
Statement by Springee
I have had only limited interactions with Jorm. His incivility combined with an unwillingness to engage with editors when a disagreement occurs is a problem. I agree with the others that the "fuck off" comments were not a good idea but also directed at obvious trolls. Not a good method but understandable. Given the disrespect shown to editors on his talk page as well as here I think a warning should include a statement that Jorm is expected to engage in good faith with editors who reach out to handle disagreements. If an editor is unwilling to discuss their edits in good faith then they probably shouldn't be making those edits. Springee (talk) 12:44, 19 October 2020 (UTC)
Result concerning Jorm
- This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
- Looking over the diffs, the only one that is actionable is this personal attack on Masem. At this time I think that we don't need to do more than to remind Jorm to focus on the content not the contributor. --Guerillero | Parlez Moi 00:05, 11 October 2020 (UTC)
- I have to say that this makes me uncomfortable --Guerillero | Parlez Moi 14:52, 13 October 2020 (UTC)
- The real question is: Do our policies on civility apply to trolls? We have traditionally been very lenient when it comes to responding to throwaway accounts, but this pushes the limit a bit. The real problem is the Masem reply, as Guerillero noted above. I agree with Guerillero that harsh sanctions aren't needed, although I think more than a soft touch is warranted, and would instead recommend a strongly worded warning that civility isn't optional and the lack of it serves to make the editing environment more toxic. especially on the talk pages of controversial subjects where there is often more heat than light. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 12:31, 11 October 2020 (UTC)
- My hesitation about any type of warning here is basically what Cullen328 said: this is a legitimate, though strongly stated, critique of the behaviour of another editor. If this was said at ANI/here with diffs it’d be allowable. It didn’t have diffs, so it was an aspersion. That’s not good, but I’m also loathe to start sanctioning or warning people for pointing out what is a legitimate behavioural concern. It does need diffs, though, and that is my biggest concern. Jorm, if you encounter this issue again provide diffs and take it to AE or AN. We have a rule against aspersions for a reason. Note: I’ve disagreed with Masem twice in recent days on how our policies apply to white supremacism, but I don’t consider myself involved in regards to him or the topic area, but I think it worth noting. TonyBallioni (talk) 16:09, 11 October 2020 (UTC)
- I would suggest that at minimum, a warning to focus on content instead of contributors is in order. And it's time we accept that labeling people as "deplorables" is always going to be counterproductive. ~Awilley (talk) 16:36, 12 October 2020 (UTC)
- I don't think there's much to be done here. However, TonyBallioni the fact that the comment didn't come in a conduct forum and was not supported with diffs is incredibly important. There is a reason we have conduct forums: so our article talk pages can stay focused on content. There is a reason we demand diffs: we don't want to support casting aspersions. If there were a pattern of some the behavior towards Masem being presented I'd feel differently. However, one such act by a longterm productive editor (like Jorm) needs a friendly nudge - and being brought to AE is already more than a friendly nudge - rather than a formal sanction. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 16:42, 12 October 2020 (UTC)
- Reverting even truly horrible edits with "go fuck yourself" edit summaries is unfortunate. Even apart from any concerns about decorum, it's just too much fun for the troll on the other end who will think he has successfully gotten a rise out of a perceived enemy. Don't make this a fun paintball game, just stick with boring "Undid revision 982224172 by 190.193.156.241". As for the Masem edit, it isn't some reasonable complaint that just needed a couple of diffs or another forum to be okay. It's a battleground attack which attempts to paint Masem as a member of some hated enemy team. I would support a warning. Haukur (talk) 10:33, 13 October 2020 (UTC)
- I would support a warning, not in the interests of decorum or because trolls deserve consideration, but because focusing on content rather than editors, and discussing behavior only with evidence and in appropriate fora, are pretty fundamental aspects of our behavioral expectations, and refusing to participate in a discussion about one's own behavior is not a good look, per Guerillero. Also, speaking purely tactically for a moment, swearing at trolls is typically going to make any trolling problem worse, not better. WP:RBI and WP:DFTT exist for a reason. Vanamonde (Talk) 15:55, 13 October 2020 (UTC)
- I've got a pretty hard time caring too much if someone replies "Go fuck yourself" to a section entitled "Why don't you be factual and not libtarded?" followed by an obviously transphobic rant. Yes, ideally, we shouldn't sink to the troll's level, but such an individual is obviously not here in good faith. On the other hand, this [4], followed by the dismissive attitude here [5], are not acceptable at all. The first is a clear personal attack and, without evidence, a casting of aspersions against a longtime editor (with serious allegations at that), and the second shows that Jorm does not particularly care about this type of behavior (the "cool story" part appears to be a reference to the sarcastic and dismissive "Cool story, bro" expression, and that's not an acceptable way of engaging a good-faith request). I would support a final warning that one should revert, block, and ignore trolls and vandals, and that one is expected to treat fellow editors, including those with one whom disagrees, with a reasonable degree of respect and civility and not engaging in personal attacks, including evidence-free allegations of malicious intent. Seraphimblade Talk to me 16:12, 13 October 2020 (UTC)
- Jorm, let's ignore the parts where you told trolls to fuck off. (Though I'll reiterate that's not ideal; if nothing else, just revert them and if necessary report them. Getting a rise out of someone is a thrill for them; getting unceremoniously booted out the door is not). Aside from that, though, this [6] was not on your talk page, it was on Talk:Gamergate controversy. That's not appropriate. You've been around long enough to know that we would not use terms like "assholes" and "chucklefucks" in articles. Article talk pages are for discussion of what neutrally worded article text should be, not as a forum for you to express your personal opinions about a subject. But the most concerning remains this one [7], which was also not on your talk page. That was a direct attack against another editor, and a serious one. Indeed, an administrator was already desysopped and site banned for being in league with inappropriate external influences. That is a serious accusation. If you have sufficient evidence, bring it to ArbCom. If you don't, then don't accuse them of that again. So far as your own talk page, you have every right to refuse to engage with anyone who posts there, but if you do choose to, you are expected to do so civilly and respectfully. If you just want to revert, remove, or immediately archive the post without response, that's your choice, but civil and respectful discourse is expected if you do choose to respond. That does not mean at all that you are required to agree with anyone, but if you disagree, it is expected that you will do so civilly and without rancor, sarcasm, or casting aspersions about someone's motivations. Instead, just say "I disagree with you and here is why." Seraphimblade Talk to me 12:54, 15 October 2020 (UTC)
- I like Jorm. I appreciate Jorm, for their humanity and wit. To the best of my recollection, I have not had a negative encounter with them, contrasted with multiple positive ones. That having been said, Jorm has been skirting the line for a long time now. As Liz mentions, the flippant nature of the repeated "cool story, bro," for example — I think the usefulness of that as a rhetorical device has been long exhausted. I'm afraid that if Jorm proves unwilling or unable to will themselves to begin acting in a manner which is more reserved, sanctions are probably inevitable. Which would be a sad outcome. But I have confidence that Jorm has it in them to be able to adjust their conduct accordingly. And I don't think that adjustment needs to take away from the potency of their assertions about content. Therefore, I support escalating to a final warning and am very much hoping that that will do the trick. El_C 22:47, 13 October 2020 (UTC)
- I find my thoughts generally align with El_C and Seraphimblade. I generally don't think we need to avoid the occasional use of less-than-pristine language and I certainly encourage robust debate, but we shouldn't condone aspersions and battleground behavior either, both of which Jorm is straying into. Hopefully he'll take a warning on board. --Ealdgyth (talk) 14:04, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
- I agree with most here, Jorm's conduct in an Arbcom-supervised sensitive topic area, where there is little tolerance for incivility and personal attacks, is unquestionably out of line. It's fairly understandable, from a simple human perspective, to tell transphobic vandals to "fuck off" or to call Gamergate misogynists "assholes". Wrong and out of line, but not something I could really see us justifying sanctions over. However, the personal attack at Masem, in which Masem was essentially just reasonably arguing that we should follow WP:LABEL, and Jorm essentially called them a right-wing propagandist who is a hero to ideological extremists, that's beyond the pale, and shows that this is not simply frustration with trolls and vandals, and that there is a legitimate behavioral problem. Like Seraphim says, that's an extremely serious, defamatory allegation. Given the context, I would personally lean more on the side of hard sanctions, especially considering Jorm's refusal to take this seriously and voluntarily address it. I do not particularly trust that a warning will be effective. However, the consensus above seems to be coalescing around a formal warning, and I am fine with that. Let's issue a formal and final warning and give Jorm the chance to rectify his own behavior. Hopefully we will not find ourselves back here. ~Swarm~ {sting} 03:06, 18 October 2020 (UTC)
John2510
John2510 is warned to avoid using direct quotes or otherwise copying materials from outside sources without appropriate marking as a quote and attribution. No further action taken. Seraphimblade Talk to me 01:05, 16 October 2020 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning John2510
I don't know if there were any previous sanctions. I didn't submit this at CCI because I don't know if there are previous cases of copyvio. I had not interacted with this editor before very recently on the article talk page where we had conflict. Things seemed to be getting more cordial but then I noticed that one of their first article edits subsequent to the talk page conflict introduced copyvio for apparent expediency in rewriting a sentence: note that So this would seem to fit somewhere in the AE talk page notice prohibition For full disclosure, I wrote the original sentence that was modified and I restored it to my original wording to fix the copyvio.
Discussion concerning John2510Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by John2510In this bulk edit Struthious Bandersnatch included reference to the Richards case, as well as analysis that appears to be wholly OR. Reviewing his sources, I could find only one that even mentioned the case, and did so as a characterization from something out of a separate Washington Post opinion statement. The characterization from the source was entirely different from the editor's point. Rather than being accused of mischaracterizing the brief statement, I used the statement from the article making only minor structural changes. It appears to fall well within fair use, but I've invited the other editor to paraphrase it if he feels otherwise. He could have done that instead of coming here, of course. John2510 (talk) 12:52, 13 October 2020 (UTC) I had restored the text and noted its fair use in talk prior to seeing this pending action. I've now deleted it pending the outcome of the arbitration. John2510 (talk) 12:59, 13 October 2020 (UTC) Statement by (username)Statement by Struthious BandersnatchI guess I should also say that this would seem like a quickly-fixed minor incident to me, to under other circumstances handle one-on-one rather than with a reporting process, if it weren't a nearly-14-year editor who is a member of WikiProject Law and is Aware™ of Arbitration Enforcement and did it on an AE-marked article furthermore marked
Result concerning John2510
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SPECIFICO
SPECIFICO is reminded that being rude isn't particularly helpful in discussions, and it is a slippery slope that can lead to sanctions later. There doesn't seem to be an consensus or need to say more than that. On another note, using diffs that are more than a year old is seldom helpful. Keeping a report short and to the point is preferred. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 12:06, 17 October 2020 (UTC) | ||||||||||||
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This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning SPECIFICO
Gender-related controversies
American Politics Biographies of living persons Within the area of conflict, editors are expected to edit carefully and constructively, to not disrupt the encyclopedia, and to:
All 5 diffs relate to content about sexual misconduct allegations in BLPs. (WP:ARBGG, WP:ARBBLP) Diffs 4 & 5 also fall under WP:ARBAPDS. The evidence shows highlights of a larger pattern of manipulation and WP:CRUSHing against consensus, with some incidental personal attacks. (SPECIFICO's words are in yellow.)
1) 07:47, 16 September 2020 WP:NOCONSENSUS, WP:DISRUPT
2) 07:53 - 20:38, 16 September 2020 WP:NOCONSENSUS, WP:DISRUPT
3) 12:58, 18 September 2020 WP:CIVILITY/ lying, WP:NOCONSENSUS, WP:DISRUPT
4) 11:50, 7 October 2020 WP:CIVILITY/ lying, WP:NOCONSENSUS, WP:DISRUPT, WP:PERSONAL
5) 14:56, 7 October 2020 WP:CIVILITY/ lying, WP:NOCONSENSUS, WP:DISRUPT, WP:PERSONAL
SPECIFICO brought an AE request against me which was closed on 13 September 2020 by Vanamonde93 with the statement that SPECIFICIO's behavior has been dishonest from the start; I believe the evidence shows that they began their editing career briefly sockpuppeteering as User:Kevin4762 over a trivial content dispute.[18] SPECIFICO has not become more honest with time; they have only become more insidious. It's curious that the same ONUS/CONSENSUS dispute with SPECIFICO at Aziz Ansari has also been happening at Julian Assange, one of the only political articles still on my watch list, but I assume that (other than the tactics) it's a coincidence. Although I do note that they claim (in diff 5) that the Consensus Required DS is flawed. Let's not let it be sabotaged; admins have already interpreted this sanction.[19] This all is the very tip of the iceberg; it takes a lot more than 5 diffs to summarize the long-term behavior of a WP:SEALION. (I just scratched the surface of what I observed in the Ansari dispute alone.) Now I may be accused of stalking or revenge-seeking for performing due diligence. What I would actually like is for a person to be able to make a few edits to a few articles in peace without having to be a litigator, a detective, and a Wikipolicy expert. I don't think that is too much to ask. Is there such thing as a "net positive" dishonest editor?
Discussion concerning SPECIFICOStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by SPECIFICOStatement by LevivichIt's not a contentious claim that Assange has made this "pretext defense". The "Swedish-charges-are-a-pretext-for-extradition" argument is like Assange's #1 argument in his own defense. Widely reported in top RS for years. Examples are on the talk page, and were also discussed at the last AE. The text at issue has been in the lead of the article for 18 months at least [27]. Prior to that, a paraphrased version was in the lead for more than 4 years [28]. It's not a BLPVIO; it makes no sense to allow any one editor to remove any content from an article and force everyone else to form consensus to put it back in. Also, how can the defendant's defense be UNDUE? How can the BLP subject's POV not be a significant viewpoint? I have a hard time seeing the UNDUE objection as having any merit, frankly. It's frustrating to edit an article like this; Specifico should have just made a proposal on the talk page to remove the passage. Insisting that it be removed and the onus is on re-inclusion is disruptive, it's not cool, not for something that's been in the lead for years on such a heavily-edited page. Lev!vich 22:45, 13 October 2020 (UTC) @Kolya Butternut: FWIW, the April AE might be a good example of AE report formatting. It's 6 diffs from the preceding 2 weeks plus 2 diffs from the prior month with almost no commentary. (If the diffs don't speak for themselves, they won't speak to anyone; if they need to be explained, they can be explained away.) At the bottom of that section those 8 diffs were distilled by Awilley down to 5 comments, each of which is "worse" than any of the comments in this report, and those five comments amounted to a logged warning. Lev!vich 05:45, 15 October 2020 (UTC)
Statement by WugapodesI do not believe I am an uninvolved administrator (see my talk archives), so I'll comment here: please do something. I was tired of the SPECIFICO/Kolya drama six months ago when I tried to impose a unilateral solution, and I am tired of it now. In another forum a few days ago, Kolya brought up 8 year old diffs against SPECIFICO to try and get sanctions which was an incredibly transparent fishing trip. Here, the only two diffs that could possible justify sanctions are 4 and 5, and even those aren't exactly compelling. It takes two to tango, of course, and SPECIFICO has been "accidentally" using it to refer to Kolya along with the baiting of Kolya which I first noticed when I got involved in this months ago. This is tiring and we need it to stop. Has our content been improved? Have these disputes encourage more editors to join? Is the time administrators spend handling these disputes time well used? I doubt it. Throw a boomerang, or cast a pox on both houses, or whatever, but quite obviously warnings are not doing anything. 01:17, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
Statement by MONGO(This is a copy paste of my last AE statement regarding this SPECIFICO. Since nothing has changed and well here we go again, here is my post from this past April) In a previous effort to rein in some of SPECIFICO's disruptive battlefield behavior, in August 2018 Administrator AWilley imposed several specialized American Politics 2 discretionary sanctions designed to allow SPECIFICO to continue contributing in the topic area but under a more strict set of behavioral standards as discussed here SPECIFICO was not pleased about these sanctions but they were at that time supported by admins Bishonen and Drmies. The sanctions were set to last one year, but perhaps somewhat angered SPECIFICO almost immediately ceased editing for 6 months, not returning until March 2019. Those sanctions were not applied just in the heat of the moment but after a long series of discussions and warnings that went unheeded, some of which can be seen in SPECIFICOs talkpage discussion just by scrolling up from that link I provided. Has there been any improvement since that self imposed 6 month sabbatical? None I can see:
The commentary is still directed at other editors, and is undermining good faith efforts to reach a consensus in numerous areas. Strongly recommend at least a 90 day AP2 topic ban, as well as a final warning to not comment on editors.--MONGO (talk) 02:51, 14 October 2020 (UTC) Statement by Sir Joseph(copy paste from SPECIFICO)note that SPECIFICO was recently brought to AE just last week. SPECIFICO has repeatedly violated DS and is a generally disruptive editor at the American Politics articles and associated talk pages. I think Admins here should focus on enforcement at whatever level is needed to prevent future disruption. I see no basis to hope that further warnings from [everyone] would somehow change SPECIFICO's behavior. Dear Admins: There's not enough patrolling of these articles by our volunteer Admins. Then when non-Admin editors take the time to report an obvious violation, their report too often ends up in a long drama thread at AE and extensive appeals and recrimination and deflection. I think a better model is simply for AE to carry out the escalating sanctions Arbcom mandated in the AP2 decision. Sir Joseph (talk) 03:30, 14 October 2020 (UTC) Statement by JzGThis is close to WP:BOOMERANG territory. We're not here to help you "win" your content dispute, and the mining of ancient warnings and disputes suggests that you know you don't have a proper case. I suggest voluntarily withdrawing this and seeking mediation or creating an RfC. Guy (help! - typo?) 21:58, 13 October 2020 (UTC)
Statement by (username)Result concerning SPECIFICO
Man, this report is so scattershot, and formatted in such a counterintuitive way... I had a real difficult time sifting through it. Bottom line: I found nothing recent that is egregious enough to be actionable. One item of note that I will briefly touch on is the Consensus required dispute, noting for the record that I disagree with Awilley about enforced BRD being superior to it. Anyway, in that instance, I believe SPECIFICO is very much in the wrong — WP:SILENCE applies to Consensus required. There does not need to be explicit consensus to render longstanding text subject to that restriction. Likewise, if longstanding text is removed or modified and nobody objects to that change, then it becomes the new consensus, per SILENCE. But if there are objections, then the restriction does come into effect, with explicit consensus becoming necessary for said removal or modification. To sum up: I see some editorial conflicts, which ought to be resolved in the usual way. And although the aforementioned Consensus required error on SPECIFICO's part is termed a "lie" by the OP, I see no basis to that accusation — how do you prove someone is lying as opposed to them making a mistake, anyway? While I don't think a BOOMERANG is in order, I would caution the OP to look at a few other AE reports as examples before filing another one, with an emphasis on both potency (egregious conduct that is recent) and presentation (formatting that doesn't hurt my eyes). Because this is a problematic report. El_C 03:15, 15 October 2020 (UTC)
I don't often participate in this forum even though I regularly look over cases. But I will say that this would be a lot more clear cut, Kolya, if you had presented a case based on one arbitration cases rather than three (Gamergate, BLP and American Politics 2). Compiling a hodgepodge of evidence of edits you find unacceptable that covers different arbitration cases rather than presenting a strong, and deeper, set of diffs based on one case makes it a challenge to evaluate this. Given the frustration expressed here, maybe an interaction ban is called for although this would also be a challenge since you two seem drawn to editing the same articles. But I agree that you can't keep bringing each other here hoping to get the other editor sanctioned. Liz Read! Talk! 04:18, 15 October 2020 (UTC)
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Heba Aisha
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Request concerning Heba Aisha
- User who is submitting this request for enforcement
- Tayi Arajakate (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 06:25, 19 October 2020 (UTC)
- User against whom enforcement is requested
- Heba Aisha (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log
- Sanction or remedy to be enforced
- WP:ARBIPA :
- Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
- 20:45, 17 October 2020 "According to media report in the meantime ... assassinated Bhartiya Janata Party leader Satyanarayan Sinha" introduced in a BLP with a purported attribution to an unspecified "media report".
- 20:50, 17 October 2020 "According to media reports he assassinated his rival Chunnu Singh at Chhath ghat in Neura" introduced in the same BLP with a purported attribution to an unspecified "media reports".
- 21:16, 17 October 2020 "... faced Asha Devi, the wife of Satyanarayan Sinha who was murdered by him. After the conviction of ..." introduced in the same BLP cited on 21:19, 17 October 2020 to a source which states "... is the main accused in the murder of former BJP leader Satyanarayan Sinha".
- 10:11, 18 October 2020 Removal of a DS alert on BLPs with the edit summary of "I m aware of this and this is put to create a negative image of mine by the user who is not agreed to me on other article".
- 10:19, 18 October 2020 Re-introduction of the same BLP violations after being warned on 09:20, 18 October 2020.
- 11:43, 18 October 2020 Bans me from their talk page with the claim that it is for their peace of mind.
- 00:02, 19 October 2020 Re-introduction of the same BLP violation, but this time followed up with a number of edits which add "was accused" or some variation of that but leaves out the line stating "After the conviction of ..." still unsupported by any source and which still gives the impression that the subject of the article was convicted (obviously).
- 00:20, 19 October 2020 Follow up comment on the talk page stating "I have made edits to change the words and put those words which presents him as accused not convicted.This shouldn't be reverted as of now." There are still a number NPOV violations which were introduced on the page but the above is the most apparent instance.
Similar instance of gaming behavior in a previous dispute.
- 17:30, 11 October 2020 Restores disputed content with a misunderstanding or misinterpretation of policy in the edit summary.
- 17:39, 11 October 2020 Immediately opens up an RfC on the talk page without any proper formatting.
- 17:41, 11 October 2020 Leaves this comment on my talk page stating "Untill discussion is over the editing of content under discussion amount to WP:Vandalism...discussion can go for 30 days.Plz be aware with rules of WP:Rfc".
- Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
- If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)
- Alerted about discretionary sanctions in the area of conflict in the last twelve months, see the system log linked to above.
- They claim to be aware of the sanctions as well.
- Additional comments by editor filing complaint
Mostly appears to be WP:CIR issue along with some WP:GAMING behavior. I have tried my best to make them understand policies but to little avail. Date and time of the diffs are in IST. Tayi Arajakate Talk 06:25, 19 October 2020 (UTC)
- Heba Aisha, I don't have a WP:COI with main parties, this is a mainstream encyclopedia which is reliant on the coverage of mainstream newspapers on current affairs and not a place to promote minor viewpoints or formations. I nominated that article for deletion because it isn't notable enough for a separate article, imv.
- You still don't seem to understanding that the lines you left even after your "fixes" still imply that he was convicted for murder.
In the 2020 elections to Bihar Assembly Ritlal faced Asha Devi, the wife of Satyanarayan Sinha who was allegedly murdered by his men. After the conviction of Yadav she had been winning Danapur seat for three consecutive terms on the ticket of Bhartiya Janata Party.
- Whereas the source that you yourself cited very explicitly states that "Yadav was released from Patna’s Beur jail in August this year, after being granted bail by the Patna High Court in a money laundering case." In comparison the slanted article that you quoted from here uses an ambiguous "in connection" to refer to his incarceration which makes me wonder if this is just a CIR issue. Tayi Arajakate Talk 07:53, 19 October 2020 (UTC)
- Regarding that "provocation", I'll stand by what I said as in it's not my job to clean up after their violations of wikipedia policies which is what they "virtually begged for" (Special:Diff/984103289) after being asked to provide a source (Special:Diff/984103134). Tayi Arajakate Talk 08:06, 19 October 2020 (UTC)
I told you already that if you have problem in reading hindi ask for translation rather than resorting to blatant vandalism.The 2nd source says this. "बिहार चुनाव: पति के कत्ल के आरोपी डॉन से है पत्नी का मुक़ाबला, रीतलाल पर हैं 33 केस". Jansatta. Retrieved 2020-10-17.
Now the contest between the two leaders on this seat is going to be quite interesting. Ritlal is the main accused in the murder of Satyanarayana Sinha, the husband of Asha Devi, who was in the year 2002.
other hindi sources also say this ...plz stop proving me a policy violator I have made more contribution than you and 98% of them are undisputed. Heba Aisha (talk) 08:32, 19 October 2020 (UTC)
- Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested
Since they banned me from their talk page, which I agreed to on 12:04, 18 October 2020, I'd be glad if someone else notifies them.
- Seems unnecessary now that they have responded. Tayi Arajakate Talk 07:53, 19 October 2020 (UTC)
Discussion concerning Heba Aisha
Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.
Statement by Heba Aisha
- plz check properly now I have made the edits and changed the sentences into accusation as no conviction was mentioned in the source. It means I undid the lines with which Tayi Arajakate had problems and now nothing libelous is left.The user has lodged this complaint without properly observing my recent edits. Heba Aisha (talk) 06:43, 19 October 2020 (UTC)
So the new sentences after my recent edits goes like.
1.According to media report; in the meantime Ritlal was made an accused in the assassination of Bhartiya Janata Party leader Satyanarayan Sinha at Jamaluddin chowk near Khagaul.
2.According to media reports he is also accused in assassination of his rival Chunnu Singh at Chhath ghat in Neura
3.In the 2020 elections to Bihar Assembly Ritlal faced Asha Devi, the wife of Satyanarayan Sinha who was allegedly murdered by his men.
After that I also talked to a very senior editor Fylindfotberserk according to his advice the article just needed minor edits to remove libelous words.User talk:Fylindfotberserk#Ritlal Yadav That's what I did and I don't think something more could be done as all sources talk only of subjects crime history. Heba Aisha (talk) 06:51, 19 October 2020 (UTC)
Actually this is a sort of personal attack by this user who is not liking my steps like opening up WP:RFC on Talk: 2020 Bihar Legislative Assembly election#Rfc about keeping RLSP and its alliance as a seperate front in tabular form and not representing candidates in constituency list? as amidst the edits by many users he is repeatedly removing the Grand Democratic Secular Front from the article.It seems he has some WP:COI with main parties.A support for this lies in his delition nomination for Grand Democratic Secular Front where I m also keeping my views against him. So to derail my works and made me blocked he is on personal attack mode.Heba Aisha (talk) 06:57, 19 October 2020 (UTC)
According to sources used on Ritlal Yadav
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Dear admins; if I failed to write in WP:POV;I don't know what neutral from this source anyone can extract. When the sources itself are full of crime records. This is nothing just personal attack to teach me a lesson so that I can learn not to counter him on righteous things.Heba Aisha (talk) 07:14, 19 October 2020 (UTC) |
In a nutshell if someone have decided to target other nothing could be done to change his mind. I even ask him to do minor copyediting here [33] after the advice of senior editor and I was very calm virtually "begging" politely to him but he was on attack mode trying to provoke me.here[34].So according to him I turned accusation into conviction.....but in my recent edits I did what he wanted [35] [36] [37]....It means problem solved....then why he is here????? Certainly he knows admins don't gonna read article if they are not aware of the subject area and invoking a number of policies(which actually not applies here) he gonna give them belief that he is trying to save wikipedia......and block me. That's all I have to say.Thanks
Heba Aisha (talk) 07:33, 19 October 2020 (UTC)
Statement by (username)
Result concerning Heba Aisha
- This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
Dr.Swag Lord, Ph.d
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Request concerning Dr.Swag Lord, Ph.d
- User who is submitting this request for enforcement
- GorillaWarfare (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log), on behalf of 2601:2C0:C300:B7::/64 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 17:42, 20 October 2020 (UTC)
- User against whom enforcement is requested
- Dr.Swag Lord, Ph.d (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log
- Sanction or remedy to be enforced
- American politics discretionary sanctions, BLP discretionary sanctions
- Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
American politics
- Discussion at Talk:Donald Trump: "Let's at Least be Consistent with Obama's Lead Section" POV-pushing and misrepresentation of sources. Two editors warned them about false balance, and one commented "OP's activity in this thread does rather suggest a habit of misrepresenting sources"
- At Ilhan Omar:
- Discussion at Talk:Ilhan Omar: "Views on the Police" POV-pushing, misrepresentation of sources, ABF against other editors. Comments from other editors in the discussion: "Once again you're misrepresenting the source.", "Claiming that she's advocating "dismantlement of the Minneapolis PD--done, plain and simple" is a misrepresentation of your own source and a distortion of her views, in violation of WP:BLP", "I would appreciate it if you observed WP:AGF and not use words like "suspiciously" that question my motives."
- Discussion at Talk:Ilhan Omar: Capitalism and Socialism Pushing the addition of labels based on poor sourcing, OR, and SYNTH. Comments from other users: "You seem to be indulging in a great deal of WP:OR."; "you seem to want to attach a label that has become ultra-controversial (since McCarthy days)... [that] isn't supported by RS"
- 00:02, 4 October 2020 trolling?
- Edit warring at Charlie Kirk (activist). They keep saying "you do not have consensus", but it is Dr.Swag Lord, Ph.d who is edit warring out a portion of the past stable version of the page
- 01:53, 10 October 2020
- 02:57, 10 October 2020
- 00:34, 20 October 2020
- Discussion at Talk:Charlie Kirk (activist): "Claiming he didn't get into West Point because a less-qualified woman took his spot" "What happened to "let's discuss" and then forging ahead?"
BLP
- Warring and misrepresentation of sources at Don Lemon
- 23:50, 12 October 2020
- 00:51, 13 October 2020
- [38] per another participant in the discussion, "including this manufactured controversy violates WP:NPOV, WP:DUE, and WP:BLP."
- 01:18 15 October 2020 Restoring unsourced material about a BLP
- Edit warring in the deadname of a non-notable minor at Dan Crenshaw; misrepresenting policy about trans people who were notable under their deadname; attempting to use Fox News support deadnaming the child even after being told it should not be used to verify contentious claims
- 20:10, 12 October 2020
- 20:59, 12 October 2020
- 21:29, 12 October 2020
- "Luna Younger" discussion, in which Dr.Swag Lord, Ph.d claims that the line, "In the case of transgender and non-binary people, birth names should be included in article space only when the person was notable under that name." in WP:DEADNAME allows us to deadname a non-notable 7-year-old. Dr.Swag Lord, Ph.d also appears to intentionally misgender the child:
I would understand that if his name was exclusively or nearly-exclusively known as "Luna." But, considering the fact that's there so much controversy in regards to his name (and the case in general) adding both names would seem like the best way to assure NPOV.
- Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
- n/a
- If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)
- American politics DS alert, placed by HickoryOughtShirt?4 on 00:59, 1 October 2020
- BLP DS alert, placed by Acroterion on 01:04, 1 October 2020
- Additional comments by editor filing complaint
Filing this complaint on behalf of 2601:2C0:C300:B7::/64, who fits all the criteria for being allowed to file the AE request themselves except that they have chosen not to create an account. Dr.Swag lord, Ph.d jumped into editing contentious topics on their second edit ever, making a series of edits to Talk:Ilhan Omar including pushing the right-wing conspiracy theory that Omar married her brother ([39]). This quickly earned them alerts on both American politics and BLP DS. However they have continued to POV push and edit war, not to mention a number of editors have expressed concerns that this is not a new user: [40], User_talk:Dr.Swag_Lord,_Ph.d#Past_accounts?, User_talk:GorillaWarfare#Request_for_advice.
- @MONGO: Sorry, that wasn't super clear. I meant they've been editing for 4+ days and have 10+ edits, they just couldn't file this themselves because they edit from an IP. GorillaWarfare (talk) 20:03, 20 October 2020 (UTC)
- Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested
Discussion concerning Dr.Swag Lord, Ph.d
Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.
Statement by Dr.Swag Lord, Ph.d
Hello fellow editors. Let me first state that I have never been involved in one of these Arbitrations, so if I am not following proper protocol, please let me know.
- These charges against me are completely absurd. Contrary to the belief of some users (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Dr.Swag_Lord,_Ph.d#Past_accounts?), I am a brand new editor. Like the majority of the world, I have been reading Wikipedia for many years, but I just recently decided to make an account and start editing. Yes, I have an interest in contemporary American Politics, political figures, and the media. Is it against policy to have a niche interest? That's not a rhetorical question, if it is against policy, please let me know. However, I am in no way, shape, or form, a "troll" nor do I have any intent on whitewashing articles. If I use unorthodox methods in discussions or in editing, that is because I am a new user and I am not fully familiar with Wikipedia customs/formalities. I think it would be best for me to address each accusation one by one.
American Politics
- Discussion at Talk:Donald Trump: "Let's at Least be Consistent with Obama's Lead Section". I think it should be noted that this was one of my first edits. Yes, I admit, I was being overzealous here, but I had good intentions. I simply wanted to add a few things in the Trump Lead Section in order for it to be more NPOV, but I was promptly shut down by other users. I have since learned that it's best to address concerns one at a time, instead of in one big talk page discussion.
- Discussion at Talk:Ilhan Omar: "Views on the Police". There was absolutely nothing wrong with this discussion. I had a very long, but civil, back and forth with NightHeron concerning a congresswoman's views on the police. At one point, I did accuse him of acting 'suspiciously,' but, under the advice of another user, I struck that comment out and I apologized to NightHeron on his talk page [41]. The user accepted my apology and we eventually found consensus on the topic in question.
- Discussion at Talk:Ilhan Omar: Capitalism and Socialism. Again, nothing wrong with this discussion. A user simply deleted a longstanding section on Omar's views on capitalism/socialism, and I argued, along with other users, that the section should be restored.
- 00:02, 4 October 2020. Oh, come on! A user simply made a joke that we should change McConnell's name to 'Moscow Mitch.' I responded that "Majority Leader McConnell is a highly respected government official. You shall apologize at once!-- it was harmless tongue-in-cheek, people. I didn't realize harmless jokes were forbidden on Wikipedia.
- Why am I the one in trouble for the Charlie Kirk page? A user kept trying to change the page, when he didn't have consensus: [42]
BLP
- I did not misrepresent sources on the Don Lemon page. Please see [43], where I argue that, per multiple reliable sources, Lemon did engage in a conspiracy theory on his show.
- 01:18 15 October 2020. I politely restored infomrtion on Kirk's date of birth. I was informed by a more experienced user [44] that it is best to find sources when something is unsourced, instead of deleting content.
- "Luna Younger" discussion This seems like the biggest charge against me. Allow me to state that I was not familiar with Wiki's DEADNAME policy (for the 10th time, I am a new user). I had a very civil discussion with Muboshgu. He presented the policy to me, and explained how I was wrong. After reading the policy, it seemed like adding "(born James Younger)" would be appropriate since many sources refer to the child using that name. Again, Muboshgu stated that I was incorrect. I ended the discussion with this comment: "I would understand that if his name was exclusively or nearly-exclusively known as "Luna." But, considering the fact that's there so much controversy in regards to his name (and the case in general) adding both names would seem like the best way to assure NPOV. But, who am I to argue against Wikipedia's style manual? One more thing, how exactly do you define "contentious claims?"-- I conceded that Muboshgu was correct in his assessment. What exactly is the problem?
- All of these charges are completely farcical. I am a new editor, and I am just trying to learn how to be a great editor. I love Wikipedia, and I would never try to intentionally violate policy. I thank all of the editors who are involved in this matter. Dr.Swag Lord, Ph.d (talk) 22:11, 20 October 2020 (UTC)
Statement by (2601:2C0:C300:B7:F498:F707:531D:DF4C)
Thank you GorillaWarfare for filing this and doing a very thorough job with the report. I initially became concerned when I saw that this person was trying to remove well sourced items from several pages. My concern grew when I saw the repeated misgendering and WP:DEADNAME attacks on a minor both on the article and talk page, misgendering and deadnaming being considered acts of hate towards transgender individuals.
I am also concerned by the recent behavior at https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kevin_McCarthy_(California_politician)&action=history where the user tried to remove an entire section, claiming that it was because Newsweek was used as a source for a direct quite by McCarthy. A quick look at the deleted text told me that the vote was also sourced to the congressional record and the story double-cited with USA Today as a second source, which means the edit summaries and justification were at a minimum designed to be misleading.
The troubling patterns I am seeing are two. My primary concern as above is the violations of WP:DEADNAME and repeated misgendering of a minor are acts of great incivility. The secondary concern is that the purpose of this person seems to be to try to remove legitimate information from pages concerning conservative (or more stridently/extreme right-wing) individuals, a pattern of whitewashing as described by Doug Weller in interview with the SPLC: https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2018/03/12/wikipedia-wars-inside-fight-against-far-right-editors-vandals-and-sock-puppets 2601:2C0:C300:B7:F498:F707:531D:DF4C (talk) 18:22, 20 October 2020 (UTC)
- Forgot to add, they also appear to have participated in what they themselves call an edit-war trying to remove the text "far-right" from The Washington Free Beacon, before having their preferred version pushed back in by another account that seems to have a similar behavior pattern and has removed items from pages with edit summaries such as "who cares?"
- curprev 14:29, 9 October 2020 Marquardtika talk contribs 18,121 bytes +683 what RS say undo
- curprev 10:52, 9 October 2020 Praxidicae talk contribs 17,438 bytes -1 Reverted 1 edit by Dr.Swag Lord, Ph.d (talk): It's not edit warring and this is what the sources say, take it to the talk page undo Tags: Undo Twinkle
- curprev 09:05, 9 October 2020 Dr.Swag Lord, Ph.d talk contribs 17,439 bytes +1 Undid revision 982345590 by Praxidicae (talk). Stop edit warring and stop referring to it as "far-right." All RSs describe it as "right-wing" or "conservative" undo Tags: Undo Reverted
- curprev 15:51, 7 October 2020 Praxidicae talk contribs m 17,438 bytes -1 Reverted edits by 2600:387:A:3:0:0:0:35 (talk) to last version by Rdp060707 undo Tags: Rollback Reverted
- curprev 15:47, 7 October 2020 2600:387:a:3::35 talk 17,439 bytes +1 undo Tags: Mobile edit Mobile web edit Reverted
- curprev 03:26, 3 October 2020 Rdp060707 talk contribs 17,438 bytes +80 Reverted good faith edits by 47.201.225.5 (talk): Not far-left undo Tags: Undo Twinkle
- curprev 03:24, 3 October 2020 47.201.225.5 talk 17,358 bytes -80 undo Tags: Mobile edit Mobile web edit Reverted
- curprev 12:57, 2 October 2020 Praxidicae talk contribs m 17,438 bytes -3 Reverted edits by 2601:603:1E80:AE90:7972:B0F2:DFF1:FA89 (talk) to last version by Dosafrog undo Tag: Rollback
- curprev 12:54, 2 October 2020 2601:603:1e80:ae90:7972:b0f2:dff1:fa89 talk 17,441 bytes +3 Fixed a biased opinion about this group. undo Tags: Mobile edit Mobile web edit Manual revert Reverted
- curprev 19:04, 30 September 2020 Dosafrog talk contribs 17,438 bytes -3 undo Tag: Reverted
- curprev 00:43, 26 August 2020 107.77.202.208 talk 17,441 bytes +4 wl undo
- I do not know if they have any connection to the others trying to remove the text before they accused Praxidicae of "edit warring". 2601:2C0:C300:B7:F498:F707:531D:DF4C (talk) 19:25, 20 October 2020 (UTC)
- After seeing their response, I am all the more concerned. 2601:2C0:C300:B7:F498:F707:531D:DF4C (talk) 22:52, 20 October 2020 (UTC)
- @Dennis Brown: My understanding is that WP:BLP states "This policy applies to any living person mentioned in a BLP, whether or not that person is the subject of the article, and to material about living persons in other articles and on other pages, including talk pages" and that this is cause for concern both for the WP:DEADNAME and misgendering behavior towards a minor, and the stuff about Ilhan Omar. 2601:2C0:C300:B7:F498:F707:531D:DF4C (talk) 23:05, 20 October 2020 (UTC)
Statement by JzG
The Luna Younger edits are wildly inappropriate, and the user's edit history makes it implausible that this is their first or only account. The Omar question is a classic case of JAQing off - either trolling or incompetence, as the claim is well known to be false. Guy (help! - typo?) 19:44, 20 October 2020 (UTC)
- MONGO Up top: Only autoconfirmed users may file enforcement requests here; requests filed by IPs or accounts less than four days old or with less than 10 edits will be removed.. Guy (help! - typo?) 20:10, 20 October 2020 (UTC)
Statement by MONGO
I don't seem to get the statement by GorillaWarfare: "Filing this complaint on behalf of 2601:2C0:C300:B7::/64, who fits all the criteria for filing an AE request except that they have chosen not to create an account." Based on what?--MONGO (talk) 20:00, 20 October 2020 (UTC)
Yes I knew the criteria as far as length of time for editing as well as number of edits, so I thought the rationale was otherwise as I see the IP engaging in no worse actions overall than the one they are reporting.--MONGO (talk) 20:47, 20 October 2020 (UTC)
Statement by (username)
Result concerning Dr.Swag Lord, Ph.d
- This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
- I don't get it. I've skimmed over the material and what I saw was someone using the talk page to discuss contentious edits in a non-aggressive way, which is what we want. Adding "conspiracy theory" was a or possibly WP:SYNTH but hardly sanction-worthy. He reverted ONCE at the Don Lemon article, and you are calling that edit warring. Same for Charlie Kirk (activist), and another time twice with the second revert sticking. He did revert 3 times at Dan Crenshaw but then stopped. The "Omar married her brother" seems to have been asking on a talk page, and linking to two articles. It has earned a lot of column inches in the press, I'm not shocked someone would bring it up on a talk page, which is not the same edit warring to get it in the article. The DS warning were proper, and they are new (ish?), so things like WP:DEADNAME may be new to them, but I don't see the kinds of infractions you would expect for someone to be topic banned or blocked, at least not in the diffs provided. That doesn't mean they are correct in their edits and they do need to exercise more caution when it comes to material relating to BLPs, but I don't know that any of this is in bad faith, even if sometimes in bad form. Many of the points they made on the talk pages were met positively. Based on the diffs provided, I would be against blocking or topic banning. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 20:00, 20 October 2020 (UTC)
- I am less charitable than my good friend Dennis Brown. I have seen this editor on various talk pages, sometimes skirting the edge, and I remember being struck by the 10 October edit on the Charlie Kirk article, which puzzled me--but there's some healthy dispute over the content in the first place (a bigger cut was just made by North...Baranoff). I was NOT aware of the deadnaming edits, and I find those more troubling than Dennis does, not just because of the problem of deadnaming itself, but more so because of their eagerness to fight over it, in their revert of Muboshgu, for instance. By the same token, the Don Lemon edits are not a HUGE thing by themselves, maybe, but it's tendentious, and suggestive of a POV. What I foresee, if the editor continues, is either a BLP topic ban, or a 1R restriction, because that is where the more easily identifiable problems are; I do not yet see a reason for an injunction on the basis of editing from a political agenda, for instance. Thank you, GorillaWarfare, for your comprehensive report, especially since you did this for someone else. Drmies (talk) 20:24, 20 October 2020 (UTC)
SPECIFICO
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Request concerning SPECIFICO
- User who is submitting this request for enforcement
- Kolya Butternut (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 03:19, 21 October 2020 (UTC)
- User against whom enforcement is requested
- SPECIFICO (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log
- Sanction or remedy to be enforced
- GamerGate sanctions, BLP discretionary sanctions
- Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
17 October 2020 AE case contains evidence that they made an undiscussed rewrite of the section Aziz Ansari#Allegation of sexual misconduct after weeks of disputes about one of its sentences, and then gaslit on the talk page to give the appearance of consensus. After the AE close resulted in no action, I reverted their rewrite.[45] (m[46]) They have completely disregarded the arbitration complaint.
- 01:49, 18 October 2020 They restored the DISRUPTIVE, NOCONSENSUS rewrite with an edit summary containing:
- They ignored my requests for them to revert their rewrite and discuss their proposals.[50][51]
- Diffs of relevant AE sanctions demonstrating long-term behavior
- 3 June 2018 WP:AN/EW warning by NeilN, BLP:
This was the second time in just over two days where SPECIFICO incorrectly claimed to be reverting to longstanding content or content that had consensus. [30], [31] That's two strikes. A third strike involving an article covered by discretionary sanctions will likely mean sanctions will be imposed.
- 20 May 2018 logged warning by TonyBallioni for violating behavioral standards.[52]
- 22 April 2017 sanction by NeilN for a pattern of disruptive behaviour which contributes to a poor editing climate, described here.[53]
- If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)
- See previous AE case above.
- Additional comments by editor filing complaint
I believe GamerGate sanctions were enacted to prevent disruption like this — from an editor who has repeatedly belittled women who have made allegations of sexual misconduct.[54][55]
The 11 month stable consensus section[56] has never been respected by SPECIFICO, and yet they demand that their bulldozed rewrite remain in place while I am expected to somehow discuss reverse engineering each of their edits until RfCing a disputed sentence which was removed from a paragraph which was removed from a section which was rewritten? SPECIFICO is reversing the onus and has no respect for the consensus building process. (If you can't follow all that, good luck following the original content dispute.)[57]
- (Aquillion has noted the stability of the article as a whole.[58] The section itself only had copyedits and one sentence added in 11 months.)
This is all unnecessary complications which can be avoided by simply restoring the stable version and working out what to RfC from there. Regardless of all the convoluted content details, what we know is that SPECIFICO has been violating the DS with their disruption, which can be prevented by banning them from editing Aziz Ansari for at least six months (but they could still be permitted to vote at RfCs).
If anything is unclear in this report, please ask for clarification before making a statement judging the case.
More about SPECIFICO's consensus claim
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SPECIFICO suggests that they alone created a consensus version by claiming that the section has not been updated since the allegation occurred in 2018.[59] That's simply not true; for example, our initial dispute was over preexisting 2019 media commentary text,[60] and the only source SPECIFICO added from after the event was a 2019 source which they selectively chose to deprecate the allegation story as "some combination of as-told-to and reported piece and morning-after group-chat gossip".[61] |
Regarding the BLPVIO claim
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There was no BLPVIO, because as I explained to them,[62] the section already included Ansari's denial of the allegation — his public statement that the encounter |
- Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested
Discussion concerning SPECIFICO
Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.
Statement by SPECIFICO
Statement by (username)
Result concerning SPECIFICO
- This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.