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See also: Logged AE sanctions

Important information

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Please use this page only to:

request administrative action against editors violating a remedy (not merely a principle) or an injunction in an Arbitration Committee decision, or a contentious topic restriction imposed by an administrator,
request contentious topic restrictions against previously alerted editors who engage in misconduct in a topic area designated as a contentious topic,
request page restrictions (e.g. revert restrictions) on pages that are being disrupted in topic areas designated as contentious topics, or
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Only autoconfirmed users may file enforcement requests here; requests filed by IPs or accounts less than four days old or with less than 10 edits will be removed. All users are welcome to comment on requests except where doing so would violate an active restriction (such as an extended-confirmed restriction). If you make an enforcement request or comment on a request, your own conduct may be examined as well, and you may be sanctioned for it. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. (Word Count Tool) Statements must be made in separate sections. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as personal attacks, or groundless or vexatious complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions.

To make an enforcement request, click on the link above this box and supply all required information. Incomplete requests may be ignored. Requests reporting diffs older than one week may be declined as stale. To appeal a contentious topic restriction or other enforcement decision, please create a new section and use the template {{Arbitration enforcement appeal}}.

Appeals and administrator modifications of contentious topics restrictions

The Arbitration Committee procedures relating to modifications of contentious topic restrictions state the following:

All contentious topic restrictions (and logged warnings) may be appealed. Only the restricted editor may appeal an editor restriction. Any editor may appeal a page restriction.

The appeal process has three possible stages. An editor appealing a restriction may:

ask the administrator who first made the contentious topic restrictions (the "enforcing administrator") to reconsider their original decision;
request review at the arbitration enforcement noticeboard ("AE") or at the administrators' noticeboard ("AN"); and
submit a request for amendment ("ARCA"). If the editor is blocked, the appeal may be made by email.

Appeals submitted at AE or AN must be submitted using the applicable template.

A rough consensus of administrators at AE or editors at AN may specify a period of up to one year during which no appeals (other than an appeal to ARCA) may be submitted.

Changing or revoking a contentious topic restriction

An administrator may only modify or revoke a contentious topic restriction if a formal appeal is successful or if one of the following exceptions applies:

The administrator who originally imposed the contentious topic restriction (the "enforcing administrator") affirmatively consents to the change,^[a] or is no longer an administrator;^[b] or
The contentious topic restriction was imposed (or last renewed) more than a year ago and:
- the restriction was imposed by a single administrator, or
- the restriction was an indefinite block.

A formal appeal is successful only if one of the following agrees with revoking or changing the contentious topic restriction:

a clear consensus of uninvolved administrators at AE,
a clear consensus of uninvolved editors at AN,
a majority of the Arbitration Committee, acting through a motion at ARCA.

Any administrator who revokes or changes a contentious topic restriction out of process (i.e. without the above conditions being met) may, at the discretion of the Arbitration Committee, be desysopped.

Standard of review
On community review

Uninvolved administrators at the arbitration enforcement noticeboard ("AE") and uninvolved editors at the administrators' noticeboard ("AN") should revoke or modify a contentious topic restriction on appeal if:

the action was inconsistent with the contentious topics procedure or applicable policy (i.e. the action was out of process),
the action was not reasonably necessary to prevent damage or disruption when first imposed, or
the action is no longer reasonably necessary to prevent damage or disruption.

On Arbitration Committee review

Arbitrators hearing an appeal at a request for amendment ("ARCA") will generally overturn a contentious topic restriction only if:

the action was inconsistent with the contentious topics procedure or applicable policy (i.e. the action was out of process),
the action represents an unreasonable exercise of administrative enforcement discretion, or
compelling circumstances warrant the full Committee's action.

^ The administrator may indicate consent at any time before, during, or after imposition of the restriction.
^ This criterion does not apply if the original action was imposed as a result of rough consensus at the arbitration enforcement noticeboard, as there would be no single enforcing administrator.

Appeals and administrator modifications of non-contentious topics sanctions

The Arbitration Committee procedures relating to modifications and appeals state:

Appeals by sanctioned editors

Appeals may be made only by the editor under sanction and only for a currently active sanction. Requests for modification of page restrictions may be made by any editor. The process has three possible stages (see "Important notes" below). The editor may:

ask the enforcing administrator to reconsider their original decision;
request review at the arbitration enforcement noticeboard ("AE") or at the administrators’ noticeboard ("AN"); and
submit a request for amendment at the amendment requests page ("ARCA"). If the editor is blocked, the appeal may be made by email through Special:EmailUser/Arbitration Committee (or, if email access is revoked, to arbcom-enwikimedia.org).

Modifications by administrators

No administrator may modify or remove a sanction placed by another administrator without:

the explicit prior affirmative consent of the enforcing administrator; or
prior affirmative agreement for the modification at (a) AE or (b) AN or (c) ARCA (see "Important notes" below).

Administrators modifying sanctions out of process may at the discretion of the committee be desysopped.

Nothing in this section prevents an administrator from replacing an existing sanction issued by another administrator with a new sanction if fresh misconduct has taken place after the existing sanction was applied.

Administrators are free to modify sanctions placed by former administrators – that is, editors who do not have the administrator permission enabled (due to a temporary or permanent relinquishment or desysop) – without regard to the requirements of this section. If an administrator modifies a sanction placed by a former administrator, the administrator who made the modification becomes the "enforcing administrator". If a former administrator regains the tools, the provisions of this section again apply to their unmodified enforcement actions.

Important notes:

For a request to succeed, either

(i) the clear and substantial consensus of (a) uninvolved administrators at AE or (b) uninvolved editors at AN or

(ii) a passing motion of arbitrators at ARCA

is required. If consensus at AE or AN is unclear, the status quo prevails.

While asking the enforcing administrator and seeking reviews at AN or AE are not mandatory prior to seeking a decision from the committee, once the committee has reviewed a request, further substantive review at any forum is barred. The sole exception is editors under an active sanction who may still request an easing or removal of the sanction on the grounds that said sanction is no longer needed, but such requests may only be made once every six months, or whatever longer period the committee may specify.
These provisions apply only to contentious topic restrictions placed by administrators and to blocks placed by administrators to enforce arbitration case decisions. They do not apply to sanctions directly authorized by the committee, and enacted either by arbitrators or by arbitration clerks, or to special functionary blocks of whatever nature.
All actions designated as arbitration enforcement actions, including those alleged to be out of process or against existing policy, must first be appealed following arbitration enforcement procedures to establish if such enforcement is inappropriate before the action may be reversed or formally discussed at another venue.

Information for administrators processing requests

Thank you for participating in this area. AE works best if there are a variety of admins bringing their expertise to each case. There is no expectation to comment on every case, and the Arbitration Committee (ArbCom) thanks all admins for whatever time they can give.

A couple of reminders:

Before commenting, please familiarise yourself with the referenced ArbCom case. Please also read all the evidence (including diffs) presented in the AE request.
When a request widens to include editors beyond the initial request, these editors must be notified and the notifications recorded in the same way as for the initial editor against whom sanctions were requested. Where some part of the outcome is clear, a partial close may be implemented and noted as "Result concerning X".
Enforcement measures in arbitration cases should be construed liberally to protect Wikipedia and keep it running efficiently. Some of the behaviour described in an enforcement request might not be restricted by ArbCom. However, it may violate other Wikipedia policies and guidelines; you may use administrative discretion to resolve it.
More than one side in a dispute may have ArbCom conduct rulings applicable to them. Please ensure these are investigated.

Closing a thread:

Once an issue is resolved, enclose it between {{hat}} and {{hab}} tags. A bot should archive it in 7 days.
Please consider referring the case to ARCA if the outcome is a recommendation to do so or the issue regards administrator conduct.
You can use the templates {{uw-aeblock}} (for blocks) or {{AE sanction}} (for other contentious topic restrictions) to give notice of sanctions on user talk pages.
Please log sanctions in the Arbitration enforcement log.

Thanks again for helping. If you have any questions, please post on the talk page.

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Volunteer Marek and My very best wishes

No action taken, see admin discussion below. Lord Roem ~ (talk) 01:09, 15 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: EtienneDolet (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 08:03, 7 August 2016‎ (UTC)[reply]

User against whom enforcement is requested

Volunteer Marek (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
My very best wishes (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Sanction or remedy to be enforced: WP:EE
WP:ARBAPDS
WP:ARBIPA

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

Volunteer Marek and My very best wishes have a history of tag-teaming in edit wars. Lately they have been doing this in articles relating to American politics.
Examples: Since July 24, Volunteer Marek was edit-warring at Debbie Wasserman Schultz, especially regarding material on criticism of how DWS handled the NGP VAN data breach [1] [2] [3] [4] and the fact that she was booed off the stage at the DNC [5] [6].

Then on August 2, My very best wishes, who had hitherto never shown any interest in the article, appears out of nowhere to revert on behalf of Volunteer Marek [7] [8].

Same thing at Clinton Foundation on 8-9 July: Mvbw steps in to revert on behalf of VM over a POV tag [9][10]. They're tag teaming over other information as well: [11][12].

Same thing at Donald Trump on July 4: VM adds some text [13], and after it is removed, Mvbw shows up a few hours later to re-add it, even though he has never edited the article before [14]. This appears to be a clear-cut example of WP:GAME so as to circumvent the 1RR restrictions in this particular article.

If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)

I have warned both users about the tag-teaming here and here.
VM alerted of EE sanctions by Callanecc. VM also alerted of WP:ARBAPDS sanctions by Kelly
Mvbw alerted of EE sanctions by EdJohnston. Aware of WP:ARBAPDS sanctions here.
Both users are aware of WP:ARBIPA here.

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

I had previously made a case request at WP:ARBCOM regarding tag teaming in eastern Europe related articles, but since that area is already under discretionary sanctions, I was told to file at WP:AE instead. There's a long history of tag-teaming, and it is not limited to WP:EE or WP:ARBAPDS.

Beginning mid-2014 (and possibly earlier), Volunteer Marek and My very best wishes appear to be helping each other out in edit-wars by tag-teaming. VM is the more active of the two, and the tag-teaming typically has the form of VM getting involved in an edit-war in an article that Mvbw has not previously edited. Once the edit-war is under way, Mvbw appears out of nowhere and reverts on VM’s behalf. In a minority of instances, it is VM that steps into an edit-war that Mvbw is involved.

Since mid-2014, the tag teaming has occurred over a large number of articles (at least 40 in 2015 alone, although there are possibly more), some of which are quite obscure (e.g. Philip M. Breedlove, Khan al-Assal chemical attack, The Harvest of Sorrow). Initially the tag-teaming was restricted to Eastern Europe-related articles, particularly the Ukraine crisis, but as of 2015 it has spread to non-EE articles (example), hence I'm inclined to believe that it's not merely mutual interests that guides them. Furthermore, though both these editors have edited for a long time, they edited few articles in common in the period 2012-mid 2014, with the number of articles they edit in common skyrocketing after that. It should be noted that VM edits a far larger variety of articles than Mvbw does; however, most of the articles Mvbw chooses to edit after mid-2014 appear to be articles VM edits, especially of those he is facing contention (i.e. the April contributions of Mvbw and VM are noticeably similar). The disruption this has caused is considerable. One example below:

WP:GAME - Tag-teaming so as to circumvent 1RR articles, which appears to be the case at WP:ARBAPDS as well. See: [15][16][17] followed by Mvbw's reverts [18][19][20]. Then an attempt to have their opponents blocked at 3RRN [21]. An example of this occurred recently at Russian military intervention in the Syrian Civil War, where VM ran out of 1RR reverts, only to have Mvbw revert and ultimately have the user blocked.

In order to see the extent of the tag-teaming, I have provided an extensive list of tag-team edit-war occurrences over the past year here.

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

[22][23]

@Lord Roem: I just want to clarify that Mvbw did not state that "Putin doesn't fall under the BLP policy"...he said Putin "does not deserve a decent BLP page." Two very different things. He then pushes the notion that Putin is a fascist and similar to Adolf Hitler using that very same article ([24][25]) from that very same comment. It's not a joke, and it's quite serious. As for the timing of this report, it is largely in response of the recent tag-teaming that spread to other topic areas such as AP of which I find concerning. Étienne Dolet (talk) 18:39, 8 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I'm concerned about attempts of ADMINSHOPPING. VM has been going around trying to have admins, who have either sympathetic towards him in the past (perhaps even friends), or on the same sides in disputes, to speak for him. Posting on MelanieN's TP here and Drmies' there, even after pinging them on this very report. I commend MelanieN for commenting as an editor, but Drmies should recuse himself (I presume Drmies didn't comment at the ARBCOM case request for that very reason, after all, he was involved at Putin), or do what MelanieN rightfully did, and comment as an editor.

And Drmies' comment is also strange and vague. It does not appear that he went over the evidence, or the arguments brought forth at this report. Mvbw's remark that Putin "does not deserve a decent BLP page." should be taken seriously, especially considering the fact that he pushes the notion that Putin is a fascist and similar to Adolf Hitler using that very same article ([26][27]) from that very same comment just days after the comment was made(!) That's as serious as it gets. I'm surprised that this is even debatable.

Marek's foul language and gratuitous personal attacks, are disrespectful to the venue of AE and its administrators. If Marek makes PAs like this towards admins at AE reports, just imagine what we average folk endure at TPs with him. I, for one, can pull out dozens of PAs if need be, from him calling me an "asshole" to creating entire sections at talk pages just to attack me. Étienne Dolet (talk) 20:10, 9 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

UPDATE I have updated the report to add another case, WP:ARBIPA. At 1971 Bangladesh genocide, Mvbw and VM appear to be pushing an identical POV in the form of vote-stacking ([28][29]) and main space editing ([30][31]). 1971 Bangladesh genocide is a rather obscure article and the likelihood of them sharing the same POV in this field would be rare. As usual, Mvbw has never edited this article before, let alone the ARBIPA topic area, until VM found himself embroiled in a conflict there. I find the chance of this being just coincidental mutual interests to be slim to none. Étienne Dolet (talk) 22:44, 10 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

In his latest defense, VM claims several times that I have “brought these diffs to multiple venues. From AN/I, to 3RR, to ArbCom itself” or that I “brought this to other drama boards”. This is completely false, I have only ever brought this evidence here, and a small subset of it at ARBCOM once, who told me to bring it here. I have never gone to 3RR or ANI or any such venue with this particular evidence. So this claim is completely bunk, and VM knows it, but it’s the only way he can defend himself. As for going to the “drama boards”, Yes, I did take VM to ANI twice for his personal attacks, but definitely not for tag-teaming. And one of those reports, for which he called me an "asshole", I withdrew. One can't help but notice how VM doesn't show any diffs of his claims that I took this evidence to all these venues, because such diffs don't exist. In fact, VM is perhaps the last person who should talk. Witness here how in the space of a few months he went block shopping simply because these people had the temerity to disagree with him [32] [33] [34] [35] (all closed with no action btw). Nor is this behavior “old news”, as VM will try to claim. Witness how obsessively he trying to get Doc [36] blocked for merely having the temerity to participate in this AE thread (which somehow he manages to claim is related to Donald Trump). So if anyone has a problem with obsessively pursuing grudges and block shopping, it is VM. The rest of his post consists of nothing more than the usual personal attacks and bluster. VM has shown tremendous disrespect for the venue of AE, by using foul language, making personal attacks and unfounded accusations without providing any evidence, and by refusing to keep his posts succinct. The length of his posts is not coincidence: It is intentional filibuster, a favorite tactic. But in the end, for all its ferocity, VM’s bluster fails its main purpose: To address the evidence that he and Mvbw have been very successfully playing this little tag-teaming game for quite some time now. Étienne Dolet (talk) 02:57, 11 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

VM saying that I outed him is entirely misleading. I simply stated his old username (Radeksz) at the ARBCOM case request, because he and Mvbw were one of the main protagonists in the notorious WP:EEML case. He even made an attempt to remove his old username from the case request itself and demanded that I be blocked. VM subsequently called me an "asshole" just for that...just because I wrote his old username down. As for that ANI report, I really did not know of any other way to handle someone calling me an asshole and not apologizing (even till this very day) other than letting admins know about it. But before the ANI report, I wanted an apology from him on his TP, but he just deleted my request. And now, he again shows no diff of me "outing" him because it's simply not true, and he knows that. At any rate, I know this is old stuff but VM just now distorted the reality of this episode to such a degree that I feel compelled to correct it. But it goes to show that nothing has changed. Étienne Dolet (talk) 06:00, 11 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

This is not a "taunt". I don't know where you can come up with such a characterization, especially after calling me an "asshole". And are you seriously saying that "you were throwing my name around simply to intimidate and harass" and that I was "behaving despicably" just because I placed your old username in an ARBCOM case request?! This is just insane. Étienne Dolet (talk) 07:35, 11 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion concerning Volunteer Marek and My very best wishes

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by Volunteer Marek

I have no contact with MVBW and I've never asked them to do anything

User:Coffee - what evidence? I have no contact with MVBW. I have NEVER asked them to make any edits, say anything or anything of the sort on my behalf. I have NOT BROKEN POLICY in ANY WAY. If there is ANY evidence to contrary can you please point it out to me? Yes, it's obvious that MVBW follows my edits (though I think it's equally clear that I don't follow theirs). So what? Is there a policy against that? Is there a prohibition? Is there an arbitration decision to that effect? No, no and no.

This was already rejected by ArbCom
{{{1}}}

ED's "evidence"

ED's two examples of my "disruptive behavior" champion edit-warring sock-puppets/SPAs
{{{1}}}

ED's "evidence" just shows similar watchlists - as others have pointed out. Also, this is FORUMSHOPPING

ED's "hit list" is here. Aside from the Debbie Wasserman Schultz and Donald Trump articles, this is pretty much exactly the "evidence" they brought to ArbCom when they filed a request for a case. IT WAS REJECTED 9 to 1, because all it is is evidence that two users "have similar watchlists". Which I'm sure we do.

Note also that this is cherry picked data. There have been plenty of times where myself and MVBW have disagreed on things but of course ED fails to include those in his list (since it'd pretty much show that his "evidence" is full of it).

The purpose of WP:AE is not to "try" cases that the ArbCom rejected.Volunteer Marek (talk) 20:59, 7 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

It's also worth pointing out, now that Athenean has seen fit to comment here, that EtienneDolet's and Athenean's interests overlap in a way similar to mine and MVBW's. And they do edit war together (the Vladimir Putin article being the prime example), support each other in discussions, and on noticeboards - the same kind of "evidence" list can be constructed with cherry picked data. What this means is that unless ED and Athenea want to fess up to some kind of coordination or tag-teaming right here and now, the "evidence" that ED strung together is not evidence at all.

And yes, as Short Brigade Harvester Boris points out ED has been trying to get me sanctioned for quite some time. It's a personal grudge. He's pretty relentless about it. Indeed, this report right here is just WP:FORUMSHOPPING after all their previous failures. The fact that he's bringing up articles from way outside his usual topic area (Donald Trump and DWS) does evidence however that he obviously keeps track of my edits even when they don't concern him, just to try and find something he could report me for (as weak sauce as it is). I believe that's pretty much the definition of stalking.Volunteer Marek (talk) 00:59, 9 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

prolly no longer relevant

@User:Wordsmith, I'm sorry but what is your basis for placing ANY kind of restriction on me in the AP area? I haven't broken a single policy. If you feel otherwise at the very least please indicate what policy I've broken so that I am at least aware of what I'm being accused of. Because right now, the most you could say here is that one user sometimes checks my edit history - not exactly sure how I'm suppose to change that.21:37, 7 August 2016 (UTC)

@User:Lord Roem Re [37]. Thank you, exactly. Why is EtienneDolet trying to get me sanctioned for another user's behavior? Especially when even that behavior (MVBW's) isn't sanctionable/disruptive itself? My edits are not disruptive, they haven't broken any policies, they all aim to improve the encyclopedia. Why am I even here??? And yes, EtienneDolet has now tried to get me sanctioned on every single drama board available, from AN/I to 3RR to ArbCom to, now, here. And ALL of these request so far have ended the same way. They were rejected and on several occasions ED has been told to cut it out.Volunteer Marek (talk) 03:42, 9 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Athenean, why are you here? Replies to new comments

Athenean, why are you here? Do you have any interest in articles related to American politics? No. The only reason you are here is because we had a disagreement on a completely unrelated article several months ago (Vladimir Putin). And because you and EtienneDolet regularly "tag-team" in both your "edit-warring" and discussions. Which is why this request is so unbelievably cynical and bad-faithed. It's like you two are projecting your own failures and bad behavior unto others. So you show up here, to opportunistically pursue an old grudge and to help your buddy do the same.

Response to D.Creish's comments - note that D.Creish and myself have partly resolved our disagreement. See how it is done with good faithed users?
{{{1}}}

@Athenean. Re: "No firm consensus, but the majority of users seem to think that some of this material (especially the booing off the stage) belongs in the article. Certainly no consensus to keep the material out. " - this is a BLP and according to the discretionary sanctions of American politics topic, any challenged material that does not have "firm consensus" stays out. So "no consensus to keep material out" is not sufficient to put it in.Volunteer Marek (talk) 07:22, 9 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Oh yeah, User:Lord Roem, please note that some of the users are listing consecutive edits I made separately to make it look like I made more reverts than I actually did. Alternatively, they get fast and loose with the timing, like Athenean when he claims "In a 40 hour period between July 30th and August 1st" - actually it was between July 30th and August 2nd and not a 40 hour period but something like 60 hour period, and not four reverts but three - and all of them based on implementing BLP policy. Maybe this is just sloppy math, or maybe it's stretching the truth to make it look like something it's not.Volunteer Marek (talk) 07:36, 9 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Coffee, making personal attacks is conduct unbecoming of an administrator. Also, what in the Monkey Venus are you talking about?
{{{1}}}

And btw, it is extremely disingenuous, dishonest even, for you to ask me to "shorten my statement" but then follow that up with a bunch of unsupported evidence-free accusations and demands that I explain myself. You want shorter statement? Stop making BS accusations.Volunteer Marek (talk) 09:36, 9 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Softlander, the problem is ED and Athenean using drama boards for WP:BATTLEGROUND

@Softlavender - "all the drama" surrounding "these two users" is just EtienneDolet and Athenean, plus a couple banned users sockpuppeting (Lokalkosmopolit and Antidisinformation are the two sock masters that regularly pop up in these discussions), bringing this crap over and over and over again to various drama boards. You say "community is tired of it" - I didn't know that you were the voice of the community, but from what I've seen if there's anything "the community" (you always got to be wary of people who start talking about what "the community" thinks) is tired of is the WP:FORUMSHOPPING involved. That's what they - ED and Athenean - were told at AN/I, it's what they were told at 3RR, it's what they were told by ArbCom. Neither one of us - neither me nor MVBW - have been sanctioned for any of this or even warned or anything like that. It really is just two users who are upset they didn't get to push their POV on one particular article, pursuing a grudge. And hey, I am as sick of it as "the community".Volunteer Marek (talk) 09:45, 9 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Re: EtienneDolet's newest attacks. EtienneDolet's is only showing that he's obsessively pursuing a grudge, forum shopping, and is incapable of WP:DROPTHESTICK. User:Drmies was pinged in large part because he was making administrative decisions on Vladimir Putin article, which this report tries to dig out of the the ground and present as new. Hell, he gave me a block at that time. I don't see how he can be said to be playing favorites. EtienneDolet is just upset that in this case Drmies dismissed his accusations as the ridiculous attacks they are. This is classic WP:BATTLEGROUND behavior on ED's part. MelanieN was pinged because she is the administrator most active on articles related to the current presidential election and knows more about the context and atmosphere there. Again, EtienneDolet is just throwing out smears because he's unhappy that this administrator too spoke favorably of me. EtienneDolet is also dishonestly characterizing both my edits and MVBW. He's basically complaining that reliable sources - academic and scholarly publications - don't say what he wants them to say and gosh, darn it, the fact that some editors wish to consider these source is just so unfair! Those professors and experts who wrote those reliable sources should've written exactly what EtienneDolet wants them to have written! But I guess since he can't file AE reports against respected academics who've written scholarly articles, he just has to settle for smearing MVBW. By pretending that MVBW discussing scholarly sources on talk is equivalent to saying "Putin is Hitler". This is outright, shameless lying by ED. Same for the other diff.

But here's the thing. None of this matters. This is from six months ago. And during those six months, EtienneDolet has LITERALLY (this isn't hyperbole) brought these diffs to multiple venues. From AN/I, to 3RR, to ArbCom itself. This is what a WP:BATTLEGROUND warrior does. Take a couple diffs. Portray them in a false light to make it look sinister even when it's not. And then go around ALL the drama boards over and over again crying "Please ban these guys! See how bad they are! They won't let me push my POV in peace!". Until you find some naive or cynical or simple minded admin who'll fall for this tactic. In my 10+ years on Wikipedia I've seen this done multiple times but never with a level of shamelessness, dishonesty and obsessiveness that ED displays.

It has been suggested multiple times by other editors - when ED brought this to other drama boards - that ED should really stop trying to settle disputes by abusing AN/I or other noticeboards. In absence of doing so voluntarily, they need a explicit restriction on their block-shopping behavior. He creates WP:BATTLEGROUNDs in multiple areas with this behavior, and he refuses to discuss issues in good faith on talk because he thinks that he can get his way and "win" instead by having those who disagree with him banned. That's what's going on too. This is tendentious and yes, it is WP:HARASSMENT. It short circuits the consensus building process - why discuss and compromise when you can go running to some admin and beg them for a block?

Since he insist on piling this on, since he can't let go of grudges from six months ago (which have been reviewed multiple times by administrators already), since he is likely to repeat this behavior in the future (this very report is evidence of that), this needs to WP:BOOMERANG on him and he needs to be restricted from drama boards indefinitely.

Maybe that will allow him to learn how to discuss, cooperate, compromise and build consensus rather than block shopping admins for a block at the sign of the slightest disagreement. If not, since Wikipedia is a collaborative project, maybe this isn't a good place for them. Plenty of internet forums out there where he can pick all the fights he wants.Volunteer Marek (talk) 00:12, 11 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

(and to bring India-Pakistan-Bangladesh topics into this is just more evidence of bad faith. Funky bamboo, I was one of the few editors who actually was willing to stop into that nationalist battleground and try and clean it up a bit. I guess that's the flutin' thanks. Anyway, in that topic area, like these two others, there wasn't a single damn thing wrong with my edits and ED really needs to stop lying by trying to make it look bad.)Volunteer Marek (talk) 00:12, 11 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I'm getting really sick and tired of these smears. ED claims he "withdrew" one of the AN/I request against me. And that this wasn't "forum shopping". Well, it was. And he "withdrew it" precisely because he was warned about forum shopping. I mean his own diff shows it [38], if you just read the comment right above his. And yes, I did call ED an "asshole" once. On my talk page. Because ED was trying to WP:OUT me although he was being cute about it, in a way which would allow him deniability (did I mention this user has engaged in long term WP:HARASSMENT and WP:STALKING?) This is also old news, this is also something he's brought up all over the place and this is also something that's been considered. He's also not clear on what "block-shopping" involves. Reporting disruptive users is NOT block-shopping - that's what I did in the requests ED provides and most of these were validated with blocks. "Block shopping" is when you go to one admin to get a user blocked, that admin says "no, no block", so you got another venue/admin and ask for a block again for the same thing, then another and so on until you get that one naive admin gullible enough to fall for your nonsense. *That* is what ED is doing.Volunteer Marek (talk) 05:24, 11 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

EtienneDolet, you can make all the bullshit excuses you want, but at the end of the day, you know, and I know, that you were throwing my name around simply to intimidate and harass. You can WIKILAWYER the definition of "outing" all you want, but the truth of the matter is still that you were behaving despicably. That's probably why NO admin or arbitrator actually thought my response to you was problematic enough to warrant a sanction. Oh yeah, and you fail to mention that I made that comment after I had told you to stay off my talk page, but you insisted on coming back and making provocative remarks. Then you followed it up with taunting.

And hey. Buddy. You're forum shopping again. At some point that credit card is going to get maxed out and the bills will come due.

@Athenean - "Because there is simply no way for him to disprove it" Well, no shit there's no way I can disprove it. The whole report is formulated, purposefully and in bad faith - in a way which makes it impossible to disprove anything. What am I suppose to disprove? That I am not coordinating or tag-teaming with MVBW? How am I suppose to do that? You can't prove a negative (at least not this one). I mean, if there was some mind reading machine or something, I guess you could come over to my house, plug me in and read my mind. But there ain't. That's the whole point here! The accusation is so bogus precisely because you can't defend against it.

How about you and EtienneDolet "disprove" that you two are coordinating? Prove to us that you two are not frequent off-wiki correspondence. Prove that you don't follow EtienneDolet's edits around and tag team with him. Come on, "disprove" it! Or alternatively, you can stop being ridiculous.

Throwing accusations at people is cheap and easy. And that's all you got here. And if you don't want me to write more in this report then it's simple. Stop. Making. More. And. More. Baseless. Accusations. I get it, you expect me to take these dishonest attacks and smearing of my reputation laying down. You're annoyed that your bullying and harassment is running into brick walls. Like, for example, that half a dozen administrators here, and a bunch of other users, who say that there is nothing sanctionable on my part. So you're doubling down, throwing even more shit at me. And then you have the temerity to whine and complain that I respond? Disgusting.

And you really really have some fucking gall to accuse ME of "character assassination". I genuinely hope that you are ashamed of yourself. And anyone can go through and check my diffs. Yes, the ArbCom rejected the case with several arbs saying it lacked merit. Yes, EtienneDolet DOES keep bringing up same stuff to various noticeboards - hell, he himself accidentally provided a diff where he is being chided by an administrator for that exact thing. So I'm not the one who's lying here.

Athenean re [39], there's SEVEN editors (including admins) commenting in the general section here who are telling you that the accusations you are making in that diff are baseless and unwarranted. There are TWO admins commenting in the "for uninvolved admins" section who are also telling you the same thing (one against). So the reason you're not getting your way here is NOT my "filibuster, spinning, distorting, and character assassination" but rather the fact that your accusations have no merit. But, just like on article talk pages, you have a WP:IDIDNTHEARTHAT problem and for some reason you seem to think that the best way forward is to double down on your accusations and just throw more of them at me. Honestly, really, that kind of approach to editing Wikipedia is gonna come back and bite you in the ass sooner or later.Volunteer Marek (talk) 07:33, 11 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Since we're bringing up old stuff

HERE IS EVIDENCE, from just one discussion, of how EtienneDolet approaches editing Wikipedia. It shows clear disregard for Wikipedia policies, a nasty WP:BATTLEGROUND attitude, dishonesty, manipulation, obscurantism, tendentiousness and... very problematic POV. It also shows that Athenean and EtienneDolet "tag-team" (or at least, that's what it looks like judging them by their own standard). This is just one discussion but it is fairly representative of Etienne's behavior and honestly, if it wasn't outdated, there's enough in it to warrant an indef ban until ED promises to actually abide by Wikipedia policies.

(work in progress)

Oh freakin' a, can we just close this. D.Creish, if you disagree with some of my edits, the article talk page is over that way -->. I'll be happy to discuss them. I am already discussing them. WP:AE is not a place to pursue grudges, but it is also not a place to try and recruit editors to your POV by bringing standard content disputes here.

Enough.Volunteer Marek (talk) 22:15, 14 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

And that para that you complain about *was* indeed based on a blog and a non reliable source. Two actually. The rest of the material did indeed have a couple reliable sources but their inclusion made no sense once you remove the non-reliably sourced part, mostly because the reliable sources were being used to cite unimportant details, while it was the non-reliable sources that were sourcing the fringe claims made. Anyway, really, this is stuff for the article talk page.Volunteer Marek (talk) 22:18, 14 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

D.Creish, I did not say youo held a grudge. I was referring to this report in general, and its originator in particular. Sorry if that wasn't clear. Anyway, the general point - that the issues you're bring up here, don't belong here but rather on the respective article pages. This isn't a place to hash out content issues.Volunteer Marek (talk) 22:57, 14 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by My very best wishes

The complaint suppose to be about my alleged and recent misbehavior in two subject areas, but I do not see it.

My most recent significant edit in EE area was two weeks ago, it was discussed and agreed about on article talk page. None of my recent edits in this area caused serious complaints or disputes. It seems that I actually have good collaborative relationships with many contributors in this area.
US politics. As a note of order, I did not receive a formal warning about discretionary sanctions in this area. Five days ago I made two reverts on page Debbie Wasserman Schultz. The edit was explained on article talk page [40]. This discussion (five days ago) helped me to realize that US politics is a highly disputed area. Since then I did not make a single revert on these pages and only took part in discussions.

No, I was never involved in any inappropriate activities with VM. I do not have any contacts off-wiki with any WP participants for many years; I never edited on anyone's behalf, and I never asked anyone to edit on my behalf.

Yes, I sometimes checked edits by VM, just as edits by many other contributors. This is not forbidden by policy. But I never followed someone's edits only to blindly revert or support them. I agreed or disagreed about something with others and discussed. Obviously, I had a lot less objections to editing by VM, who is smart, well-intended and a highly experienced contributor, than to editing by POV-pushing SPAs. Agreeing or disagreeing with someone is not a violation of policy. To the contrary, this is a productive collaboration.

Here is long list of alleged misdeeds created by ED. This is a misrepresentation by ED. He simply calls all legitimate edits "edit-war", even such as reverting edits by sockpuppets [41]. Other edits were also legitimate and reflect WP:Consensus and discussions on article talk pages. Actually, this is very common when a number of long-term contributors make similar edits on the same pages (yes, there were many other contributors on these pages, not only VM and myself, who were making the same changes). Why all of them are making more or less similar edits? That's because they are trying to reflect what reliable sources tell, and the sources tell something very definite on the subject. And how do I know about Polandball and other "obscure" subjects? Because they are not obscure to me.

@Coffee and Wordsmith. This my edit was made almost six months ago, and this is not a BLP violation. Neither this is a suggestion to violate policy. This is just a joke on a user talk page. Yes, I believe that BLP rules must be respected.

P.S. This request is unusual. What normally happens? There should be a serious content disagreement about something. Yes, we had a content disagreement with EtienneDolet and Athenean about page Vladimir Putin, but it was almost six months ago! Why they are binging this back citing an essay as a reason for sanctions? I did not edit page about Putin for a long time because of the previous complaints by these users. Athenean brings this diff as an evidence against me dated February. What's the problem? There are literally hundreds publications on this subject. (Here is one of them as a random example. I do not insist this should be included, but discussing something reliably published on the subject is legitimate.

@Lord Roem. Yes, this is excellent question: "Is this editor causing disruption and POV-pushing on the page?" - based on recent evidence. OK. Here are all my edits in main space during last five weeks. Only five of them have an overlap with editing by VM. Yes, many of these edits are reverts. However, some of them did not cause anyone's objections; others were discussed on article talk pages, which resulted in successful resolution of the disagreements by keeping either my or someone else version. Was that disruptive? Note that I edited very different subjects, which is hardly compatible with pushing any specific position. I tried to improve WP. My very best wishes (talk) 04:31, 9 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Lord Roem. The complainer brought only five my recent edits in the area of US politics as a proof or wrongdoing. All these edits were discussed on article talk pages, and I took part in these discussions. All of them were reverted or otherwise modified by other users. That's OK. I agree with WP:Consensus on these pages (meaning I agree with VM and some other contributors that changes made by D. Creish on Schultz page [42] are undue and represent a BLP violation, but will gladly leave this matter to community). I do not see what's the problem with my behavior. My very best wishes (talk) 11:24, 9 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

If it helps, I promise never look at the editing history of VM in the future, even though this is not forbidden by policy. That however, does not guarantee that I will not appear on the same pages as him, because we have a significant overlap of interest, including US politics. My very best wishes (talk) 12:38, 9 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Softlavender. Even if I was not interested in these subjects (yes, they are actually interesting to me), but only wanted to improve content as a generally disinterested contributor, that still would be OK. My very best wishes (talk) 13:45, 9 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by EvergreenFir

Sorry about the rollback. Finger slipped on phone. Corrected my mistake. Again my apologies. EvergreenFir (talk) 20:04, 7 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Fortuna Imperatrix Mundi

Just to point out that surely WP:EE does not offer the sanction (or, indeed, any sanction!) requested...? 21:21, 7 August 2016 (UTC)

Statement by The Wordsmith

I edit in the American Politics area, so I'm recused from commenting as an uninvolved administrator. However as an editor, those diffs are troubling. Particularly the one where MVBW indicates that we should willingly break WP:BLP because he thinks that a world leader is unworthy of having a compliant article, just because he doesn't like Putin. After that one, I don't think MVBW is capable of editing in compliance with policy. My suggestion would be for a 'topic ban for MVBW for Eastern Europe and post-1932 American Politics, and a 0RR restriction for Volunteer Marek for American Politics. The Wordsmith^{Talk to me} 21:19, 7 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Shock Brigade Harvester Boris

It's no secret that Marek and MVBW have similar views and thus makes edits from a similar perspective -- just as EtienneDolet has similar views as another group of editors and makes edits similar to their perspective. Are both of these groups tag teams? I don't think so.

The whole idea of "tag teams" is problematic enough that a highly respected editor and two-term Arbcom member nominated Wikipedia:Tag team for deletion. She is more articulate and concise than a science geek like me, so I'm going to quote her: "Many editors have identified that the 'characteristics' of tag teams can easily be applied to editors who share a common practice of editing in accordance with policy and thus make similar edits." In the real world there are people who have similar views on certain topics and thus tend to make similar edits (and yes, revert similar material). That's true whether the topic is Vladimir Putin or global warming or anything else on Wikipedia that parallels a real-world dispute.

I'm a little more concerned about the BLP implications of MVBW's Putin comment. However, it is worth reading that entire thread in context. I'm also somewhat concerned with EtienneDolet's repeated attempts to get VolunteerMarek sanctioned for something (whatever seems to fit at the moment). But that's just par for the course in this topic area, unfortunately. Shock Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 03:03, 8 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Athenean

Opening comments

The evidence shows a clear and unmistakable pattern of MVBW coming to Marek's aid when the latter is involved in an edit-war (regardless of whether in some cases the opponents are socks or SPAs or how justified the edits are). Time and time again, in articles he has never edited before (and possibly whose existence he wasn't even previously aware of), MVBW shows up just at the right time to revert for Marek. Following the filing of a WP:RFAR by EtienneDolet (which wasn't "rejected" on merit as Marek falsely claims, see below), the frequency of such incidents decreased, but it has increased again since Marek became heavily involved in American Politics articles of late. I mean, what an incredible coincidence. Marek starts getting involved in some pretty gnarly edit-wars over American politics (more below), and lo, MVBW all of a sudden develops a new-found "interest" in American politics and shows up and starts reverting in a subject he has never edited before.

Debunking "the evidence was rejected by the arbs" claim

Regarding the so-called "rejected" RFAR EtienneDolet filed earlier this year, the Arbs response, which can be seen here [43], was not to reject the case on merit, but that since Eastern Europe is covered by discretionary sanctions, there was no point in opening a new case, and ruled to simply refer the case to WP:AE, exactly what EtienneDolet is doing now. Marek's claims that the case was rejected on its lack of merit is incorrect patently false and an attempt to mislead. Furthermore, EtienneDolet's full evidence list [44] was never shown at the RFAR. The Arbs never saw it, so it was never rejected. ~~Yet another totally false claim by Marek.~~

MVBW's stated intent to push POV at Vladimir Putin

Regarding MVBW's claim that his intent to sabotage the Putin article was a "joke" (the lamest excuse in the book), the POV disruption he has caused at that article is no "joke" at all (e.g. edit-warring to keep well-sourced material out [45] [46] [47] [48], many more examples). Here for example Mvbw seems to be taking the "Putler" stuff quite seriously [49] [50] and seems to suggest it should be included in the article (testing the waters). No, no joke. He stated his intent to push POV, and followed through on it.

Edit-warring by Marek on US politics articles

As to Marek's protestations that he has "done nothing wrong" at American politics articles, he has in fact been engaging in some pretty serious and protracted edit warring in this topic area (Debbie Wasserman Schultz: [51] [52] [53] [54] [55] [56] [57] ([58] [59] [60] consecutive) [61] [62], 2016 Democratic National Committee email leak: [63] [64] [65] [66] [67] [68] [69], Clinton Foundation: [70] [71] [72], and possibly others). I have seen people get 0RR and worse for less.

Redundant comments

MVBW and Marek have been double-teaming since 2014. First their collaboration was restricted to Eastern Europe articles, the original area of common interest. Then Marek became involved in Syrian Civil War articles. And sure enough, MVBW followed him there. Now it's American politics articles. When called on it, they dial it down. When they think the coast is clear, they resume. And it works. While the users that get blocked tend to be socks and/or SPAs, experienced users typically give up to avoid getting blocked. Call it what you want, tag-teaming, collusion, meatpuppetry, it's a form of gaming the system and a mockery of the spirit of wikipedia. Athenean (talk) 05:51, 8 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Response to Lizzius
There is of course nothing wrong with editing overlapping articles and checking each others contribs, that's one thing. But performing identical reverts during an edit-war is quite another. That's what we're talking about here. Athenean (talk) 18:31, 8 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Lord Roem (talk · contribs): What's recent is the double-team edit warring at American Politics articles. Let's look at Debbie Wasserman Schultz, the most egregious example: In a 40 54 hour period between July 30th and August 1st (yes, Marek, August 1st US time, not August 2nd), Marek racks up 4 non-consecutive reverts: One [73], Two [74] [75] [76] (these 3 are consecutive), Three [77], and Four [78]. At this point, further reverts by Marek are risky. This is a fraught topic area and he has already edit-warred enough to possibly get blocked, even without breaching 3RR (Marek keeps involving BLP but this is debatable - the material is well-sourced). Then, less than 3 hours since Marek's most recent revert, MVBW appears out of nowhere and reverts to Marek's version twice [79] [80]. MVBW has never edited the article or its talkpage before, in fact his participation in US politics articles is minimal. Very fishy. I find it extremely unlikely that MVBW just happened to have the article watchlisted prior to this or just came to it by chance. And it's the same extraordinary coincidence at Donald Trump and Clinton Foundation. While the rest of the evidence may be somewhat dated, it is necessary because it points to a pattern: This same exact double-teaming has been going on since 2014, repeated across 40 articles. At first EE articles, but then it spread to other articles. Are we to believe that it's just due to common interests and overlapping watchlists? Human rights in Venezuela [81] [82]? John Maynard Keynes [83] [84]? Philip M. Breedlove [85] [86]? Where does it end? After March 2016, when EtienneDolet filed the RFAR, they dialed it down because they knew people were on to them. Now with Marek getting embroiled in some serious edit-wars in US politics, and several months since the RFAR, they're at it again. The mechanism of how they do so, whether off-wiki or just MVBW folliwing Marek's contribs, is entirely irrelevant. Keep in mind these users are not just editing together, they are edit-warring together. Edit-warring is disruptive, double team edit warring doubly so. Often times the material they remove is garbage and their edits justified, but often times it's not (as in the examples I give above), and they are clearly pushing POV. Often times it's against socks and SPAs, but often times it's against users in good standing. That said, I do agree with you that MVBW appears to be the more guilty party here (Marek's edit warring at US politics article is a separate matter, though no less significant). This problem can easily be solved with an interaction ban (even a one-sided one, since it appears it is MVBW who is the more guilty party), or simply a prohibition on MVBW making the same reverts as Marek (and this can even be amended to make exceptions for vandalism, reverting socks, BLP, Copyvio, etc.., basically wherever WP:3RRNO applies). But from experience, I can guarantee you 100% that unless some such measure is enacted, this kind of behavior will continue through the US election season and beyond. Athenean (talk) 05:04, 9 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Lord Roem (talk · contribs) As far as I can tell, there is a lot of back and forth between Marek (and after his reverts, MVBW) and several other users over whether the material belongs. No firm consensus, but the majority of users seem to think that some of this material (especially the booing off the stage) belongs in the article. Certainly no consensus to keep the material out. Athenean (talk) 05:57, 9 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I had hoped to keep the focus strictly on the double-teaming, but Marek's claim that he rigorously applies BLP policy to all BLP articles regardless of POV is untrue and needs to be rebutted. At Debbie Wasserman Schultz, he fights hard to keep out material that reflects negatively on the subject, in effect saying, "you can't add something without consensus (i.e. if I object to it) [87]. But a few months earlier at Vladimir Putin, it was the exact opposite: There Marek was fighting hard (and Mvbw double teaming with him) to keep in material that reflected negatively on Putin, even though it was only very tangentially related to Putin (criticism of the Russian bombing campaign in syria, the sources do not even mention Putin: [88] [89]). His argument there was "It doesn't matter if you object, the material is reliably sourced so it belongs, not a BLP issue." [90] [91] [92]. And sure enough, he and MVBW editwarred and double teamed to keep the material in [93] [94] [95] [96]. What happened to the need for consensus there? In other words, the 180 degree opposite of his arguments at Debbie Wasserman Schultz. One interpretation of BLP at the Putin article, the opposite interpretation at the DWS article. The POV these two editors push at US politics articles is moreover connected to Eastern Europe and no accident: Keep in mind Trump is accused of being "soft on Russia" and "in Putin's pocket", whereas Hillary Clinton has taken a hard line on Russia. This explains why he is so protective of the Hillary Clinton campaign articles, but the opposite at Donald Trump related articles (e.g. [97] - note one of the sources here is Politico.com, which he tried to remove at DWS arguing BLP [98]). The claim that he merely applies BLP fairly across the board to protect people who are unpopular from unfair criticism is total baloney. There is a POV, and it is unmistakable. Athenean (talk) 17:21, 9 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I just want to point out that the level of filibuster by Marek is reaching ridiculous levels. All the character assassination, name calling, shouting in ALLCAPS, and tl;dr walls of text thrown up by this user are attempts to divert attention from the subject of this report: That he and My very best wishes have been and still are edit-warring in a coordinated fashion across wikipedia. Because there is simply no way for him to disprove it, he is resorting to what i have dubbed "the full-court press filibuster" (I've seen it before, many times): Go on the offensive, throw up walls of text one after another, and try to change the subject by attacking the opponent's character relentlessly, especially with copious untruths (which will force him to respond so as to set the record straight, therefore resulting in an even longer report, and also change the subject). Above all, constantly spin, distort and exaggerate. Justs several examples where Marek has distorted and exaggerate something so much so as to make it an outright lie (these are off the top of my head, I'm sure there's lots more but there's walls of text to wade through):

1) Marek's version of the "truth": "The Arbs rejected this case on lack of merit". The actual truth: Some did, some didn't. [99]. Most declined because "the topic already covered by discretionary sanctions."

2) Marek's version of the "truth": "EtienneDolet keeps bringing this same material to different noticeboards over and over again", such as AN3 and AN/I. The actual truth: EtienneDolet never showed this evidence at AN3 or AN/I, or any other venue. EtienneDolet did refer Marek to AN3 for edit-warring, and to AN/I for gross personal attacks, but that is a completely separate matter. This evidence was never shown at any of those venues, only a very very small part of it at the ARBCOM case.

3) Marek's version of the "truth": "I apply WP:BLP in a neutral fashion across the board". The actual truth: Marek cynically uses BLP selectively, to push POV (see above for a thorough debunking of this claim, using Debbie Wasserman Schultz and Vladimir Putin as examples).

Just the lies, distortions, insults, and filibuster by Marek in this AE thread alone are block worthy, never mind the edit-warring in a coordinated fashion across wikipedia. Athenean (talk) 06:45, 11 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Volunteer Marek asks how is it possible to disprove the accusations leveled against him. Easy: How about not having article after article where one of you gets into an edit-war and the other miraculously appears within minutes/hours to revert for you even though he has never edited the article before. Of course, if that what you've been doing over and over again for years, then no, you can't disprove it. You can only resort to filibuster, spinning, distorting, and character assassination, and hope to get away with it. Athenean (talk) 07:18, 11 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Lizzius

Having reviewed the diffs provided in evidence, and the ones provided in the statements of many users here, there is no meat in this case (Athenean, your numerous linked diffs showing a "protracted edit war" cover weeks of edits to multiple articles and to my eyes absolutely no evidence of repeated content removal or what I believe WP policy would define as edit warring).

The "compelling" evidence here shows nothing more than an overlap in editing interests. No more or less severe than many editors (and admins) across this site with similar watchlists/interests/access to the news. Unless there is hard evidence of collusion between these two (apart from the fact that they both inhabit Earth, probably have access to Western media and thus tend to follow a similar sense of Zeitgeist when it comes to their individual interests, and happen to have a political ideology that departs from the sense of the filing editor) this should be chalked up to nothing more than partisan bickering. Throw on top of that the history with the filing party here (and a curious opinion from an "involved" administrator, followed by another administrator who could seemingly be cast into the same collusion bucket if the definition is allowed to be cast so broadly), and you have one curious set of circumstances here that absolutely shouldn't result in any sort of sanction against MVBW or VM.

Further reply to Athenean, the diff you highlighted as further evidence that this is just the proverbial tip of the iceberg is indeed listed in ED's evidence page. It also seems the Arbitrators' opinion on dismissing the case were mixed, with some expressing they felt the case essentially reduced to overlapping interests. It isn't fair to consider VM's characterization of their opinion purposefully malicious, anymore than yours might also be considered so. Also (and this was first linked by another editor in the filing you referenced), if you run an interaction analyzer on you and ED it is comparable ([100]) to the analysis performed on MVBW and VM. Surely this could compel you to see how easy it is for editors with similar interests and world views to end up editing very similar articles? Have you found any truly compelling evidence that would demonstrate actual, coordinated collusion? Lizzius (talk) 13:56, 8 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Having read how this has evolved, I'm disappointed in what seems like baiting to evoke a response from VM. The congruent calls to both shorten his statement and reply to increasingly pointed questions has contributed to the now querulous tenor of this whole conversation. VM is understandably frustrated as this has lead to what seems like dog-piling in this space over something that could very easily be reduced to sharing a watchlist. Some even from a user who was banned on this very page from a topic area where the editor obviously clashed with VM. How is any of this defensible? Hopefully this is closed quickly by a fair-minded administrator to prevent further damage to what is obviously a well-intentioned editor. Lizzius (talk) 15:53, 9 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Roxy the dog

It's called a Watchlist. -Roxy the dog™ bark 14:15, 8 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by OID

I would like to echo Boris here, ED has been trying to get VM sanctioned for something for quite awhile now. Given this has already been brought up and rejected by Arbcom, and there is no additional considerations here, some form of forum-shopping warning needs to be given. Only in death does duty end (talk) 14:31, 8 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by D.Creish

I encountered Volunteer Marek and MVBW on Debbie Wasserman-Schultz. My interaction with MVBW was limited to his reverts and some talk page comments (more on that later) - most of my interaction was with VM. I see a pattern of disingenuousness from VM, stretching the truth or outright misstating things to help his argument. I'll give examples:

In this enforcement request he initially claims EtienneDolet was "told by the ArbCom (!) to drop it" (it being these accusations.) When it's pointed out in fact he was told AE was the appropriate venue (rather than the case request he'd filed), VM removes the accusation replacing the text with the message "(text removed to shorten)" when really text was removed because it was untrue. If it hadn't been caught by another editor it would have remained and helped his case.

On Debbie Wasserman-Schultz he accuses editor Activist of canvassing:

I just noticed that User:Activist in this message on their talk page [6] pinged several users to alert them about the presence of the disagreement above [...] This is a textbook example of improper WP:CANVASSing, followed by tag-team reverts. This sabotages the process of consensus, leading to false notion of consensus.

I point out that the pinged editors were all active participants in the discussion prior to the ping so while it may be TAGTEAM or some other discouraged practice it doesn't seem like canvassing.

He never follows up on the canvassing accusation (I assume because it's meritless) but continues to use it as a bludgeon to dismiss any consensus involving the pinged editors: "These editors are exactly the ones you canvassed on your talk page to help you in your edit war", "As to consensus, as has already been pointed out several times, several of the participants here were explicitly WP:CANVASSed here to edit war for this stuff" and reverting consensus edits with edit summaries claiming the false canvassing accusation as justification: [101] [102]

My interaction with MVBW was more limited. He was involved in a discussion about whether to include Wasserman-Schultz being booed off stage at the DNC in her article. The incident was covered in all major sources and led to to her not gaveling-in the convention (a first in DNC history.) A well-known political reporter described it as "one of the most painful moments I have ever witnessed." Seems pretty significant right? VM didn't think so and one he reached three reverts neither did MVBW.

MVBW's talk page comments were generic, they could have been cut and pasted (changing the subject) from almost any BLP dispute: [103] [104]. He dismisses the incident as a "minor detail". When I attempt to understand his reasoning, asking if it's the boo-ing or the gaveling he considers minor I get no response.

These incidents were (I believe) my first and only interaction with these editors. D.Creish (talk) 06:22, 9 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Reply

@Volunteer Marek: the pattern of half-truths continues in your response to my post here. You say:

The texts that D.Creish and Activist kept on inserting were/are a BLP violation. The first one concerns a frivolous lawsuit

At no point have I inserted or restored any text concerning a lawsuit.

Indeed, I took it to WP:BLPN myself: [62]

That's entirely true, but you leave out the part where you didn't notify any article participant about the posting. Didn't you find it strange that while we were all actively participating on the article's talk page, none of us participated in the BLPN discussion?

And let's look at your BLPN posting, which ends with:

One of them, D.Creish, has made BLP violations on related articles as well.

There is no basis for this claim whatsoever. I notice I wasn't pinged either so I couldn't refute the false claim. Very disappointing. D.Creish (talk) 07:40, 9 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

EDIT: Regarding the erroneous "BLP violation" accusation, VM's explained he had me confused with another editor. D.Creish (talk) 21:16, 10 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Continued Questionable Editing

VM continues the pattern of misleading edit summaries I outline above.

Here he removes criticism of the Clinton Foundation sourced to the NY Times and Boston Globe, with the summary: "POV section based mostly on non-RS (with a few RS thrown in as spice). Wikipedia is not a vehicle for pushing political agitprop."

Next he traces the criticism to the article Clinton Cash and in probably the worst of his edits removes the entire section on Stephanopoulos. His misleading edit-summary claims "this whole thing is based on a blog and a non-RS (WFB)" meanwhile the actual sources for that section are (or were):

His article editing seems to focus largely on Hillary Clinton, her associates and opponents with a reasonably apparently aim.

Reviewing his edits to Debbie Wasserman Schultz for example I find edits where he's added positive content, more where he's removed negative or critical content but I can't find a single instance where he added or expanded critical content (@Volunteer Marek: I would appreciate a diff that contradicts this.)

I see the same pattern in his edits to Hillary Clinton presidential campaign, 2016 and Clinton Foundation and 2016 Democratic National Committee email leak and 2016 Democratic National Convention.

One might think it's a sensitivity to BLP standards but if we examine his edits to Donald Trump and Donald Trump presidential campaign, 2016 the exact opposite is true. Every edit I examined was either neutral or critical.

The more I see the more I'm convinced VM should not be editing political topics. D.Creish (talk) 21:50, 14 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

In response to this section VM says:

WP:AE is not a place to pursue grudges, but it is also not a place to try and recruit editors to your POV by bringing standard content disputes here.

It's ridiculous to claim I have a grudge against you. I disagreed with some of your edits to Wasserman Schultz but agreed with others (the removal of the lawsuit for example.) That article has been stable for some time I don't believe I've interacted with you in any other articles, recently or in the past. It's only since I've examined your edits in the context of this request that I've come regard the problem more fundamentally. AE, as I understand it, is exactly the place to discuss long-term patterns of editing and behavioral problems in topics covered by discretionary sanctions. D.Creish (talk) 22:32, 14 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by uninvolved Softlavender

Not being a Putin fan I've been pretty much indifferent to (if not supportive of) the obvious tag-teaming these two editors engage in and have engaged in for a long time. But when it spreads beyond the subject of Putin, Ukraine, and Eastern Europe in general, and spreads to dozens and dozens of articles, and articles and subjects which Myverybestwishes has never edited in or shown the slightest interest in, then in my opinion something definitely has to be done to stop it. I'd like to address myself specifically to Lord Roem: Having been nearly absent for so long on Wikipedia (indeed, in the six years since you've been here you've made less than 8,500 edits), you've not been subject to, or privy to, the frequent drama that surrounds these two editors. I believe the community is tired of it and that it needs to stop. Turning a blind eye and/or saying that VM can't help it if MVBW follows him around isn't going to solve or resolve the situation. If it isn't somehow resolved here, I think it's going to end up back at ArbCom, and I don't think it needs to. Softlavender (talk) 09:18, 9 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Doc9871

I said from the beginning of my interactions with Volunteer Marek that he should have been topic-banned from this area for having a hopelessly biased, highly aggressive pattern of enforcing opinions over encyclopedic material. Volunteer Marek loses all credibility with this edit.[105] Removing cited material and using the edit summary to say what he said? The next edit is no better.[106] This is not encyclopedic behavior, folks! Wake the hell up! Really just terrible "editing". Doc talk 09:46, 9 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

This destroyed the last shred of credibility for me.[107] Folks, it's not "outing" to mention the name of a previous account that this one operated. All anyone has to do is go to the beginning of the user's contribution history and look how they used to sign. For instance, here.[108]. Volunteer Marek used to be known as Radeksz. It's not "outing" to point that out at all. To erroneously revert and personally attack the user is very disturbing behavior for an editor who's been here this long and claims to not get into PA's. It's quite sad, really. Outing is a very serious allegation of harassment. The freely available fact that the username "Radeksz" was used does not constitute any actual "personal information" that would have otherwise (hopefully) already been oversighted. An actual outing attempt goes well beyond what was alleged to be outing in that diff. Doc talk 09:04, 11 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
"On July 22, 2016, speaking before the Florida delegation in Philadelphia, Wasserman Schultz was "booed off stage". Shortly thereafter, it was announced that Wasserman Schultz had 'abruptly' cancelled plans to gavel open the convention." VM removed this cited material multiple times on the grounds that it allegedly violated BLP (i.e. here[109] and here[110] and here[111]). I see absolutely nothing in those sentences that even approaches a BLP violation. Not even close. Why wasn't he blocked for those edits? How does he get to decide what violates BLP and what doesn't violate BLP when he clearly doesn't know what a BLP violation even is? Mainstream left-leaning sources like the NYT[112] and MSNBC[113] extensively covered it. A BLP concern? Hogwash. The fact that it's in her article right now, replete with the "booed off stage" phrase intact, should demonstrate that VM's BLP concern was a red herring all along. "Whitewashing" does not equate to NPOV. Doc talk 11:40, 11 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by MelanieN

I was pinged to this discussion by VM, I guess as a kind of character witness. So I should be considered as an involved admin, or better as just another editor. I am not familiar with the articles under discussion here (Vladimir Putin and Debbie Wasserman Schultz) so I cannot speak to the specific allegations regarding those articles. But I have observed and worked with both VM and MVBW over the past few months at several Donald Trump related articles. I have not observed, and cannot now find, any evidence of collusion or coordination between them at those pages. I have never had to caution either of them for their editing. Both of them use the talk page a lot - more than actual edits to the articles - and their contributions at the talk pages are constructive. That's all I have to say, except to note the allegations of forum shopping on the part of the OP; that would concern me if I were evaluating this case. --MelanieN (talk) 15:09, 9 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Neutrality

I'll keep this brief: I agree with the sentiments expressed by MelanieN and Drmies here. Editing in areas of overlapping interests, using the article watchlist, or checking users' contribs do not constitute evidence of improper collusion or meatpuppetry. This is a collaborative enterprise.

As a general rule (though not an invariable one), when multiple editors jump in to revert the same BLP-implicating content in good faith, the natural assumption (a rebuttable presumption, so to speak) is that the material is contentious and bears discussion—not that there is some impropriety going on.

I'll also call users' attention to the fact that Wikipedia:Tag team is an essay, not a policy or guideline, and the footnote to that essay states: "as there is no consensus regarding the merits of this essay in namespace. Editors have voiced a concern that the "characteristics" of tag teams can easily be applied to editors who share a common practice of editing in accordance with policy, and that the essay can be used as a weapon against editors who are acting in accordance with Wikipedia's editing policies to cast aspersions..." Neutrality^talk 16:51, 9 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Iryna Harpy

I've been watching this and, while I've thought it best to bite my tongue, the latest comparison comments and diffs by ED regarding genocide articles has prompted me to comment on how badly wiki tools can be misused in order to evaluate the contributions by long time editors who work on articles constantly. While I don't have any personal problems in working with ED (or Athenean for that matter), I do feel inclined to think there is GRUDGE involved. While ED's belief that there's tag-teaming at play here is undoubtedly good faith, he has the wrong end of the stick as to how MVBW became involved with genocide topics (aside from his work on "Holodomor"): it was through me that his interest was piqued. Please see this discussion on the "Genocides in history" talk page here. It was in early April - correlating with MVBW's foray into the 1971 Bangladesh genocide and other specific articles. I've worked collaboratively with VM and MVBW for years, but that does not make editors who have the intestinal fortitude to edit controversial and heavy traffic articles component parts of various tag teams. Interest and mix 'n match editing is how our watchlists and contributions grow. Trying to make mud stick by rummaging around without comparing edits against an increase in all activity on any given article at any point in time is an easy way around of finding Moby Dick in the Bible and getting rid of the competition. As has already been noted by others, the tools you've used to create comparisons could be easily used against you and Athenean (or any number of editors) to 'prove' you're a tag team. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 04:16, 11 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Kingsindian

(I have had very little contact with VM, a bit more with MvBW. I have argued with the latter on a few pages; they have a tendency to revert a bit too much, but are also very willing to discuss on the talkpage. One particular page The Harvest of Sorrow was mentioned by ED in their remarks.)

Can we separate out the two things? Volunteer Marek has stated that he does not collude with MvBW off-wiki and MvBW has denied collusion as well. Absent evidence to the contrary, this part should be the default finding. Furthermore, VM has stated that they do not follow MvBW's contributions (and there has been no evidence to the contrary). MvBW does follow VM's contributions: this is self-admitted and fairly common (I do it myself sometimes).

I share ED's annoyance at this kind of reverting by multiple people. It is fairly common in contentious areas, where views are very polarized - so there are really two camps - and thus reverts by people with a certain viewpoint seem like getting around WP:1RR restrictions. How to fix it? The overall solution is simple: the participants should follow WP:BRD (not a policy, but a good practice) - discuss on the talkpage after the first edit-and-revert. In particular, MvBW should refrain from reverting the third time, as documented in ED's evidence. Kingsindian ♝ ♚ 13:09, 11 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by SPECIFICO

It's very disappointing to see that the resident Admins here would keep this complaint open for so long when there's been no evidence to document the alleged violation for which they are authorized to sanction.

It's far too common that a battleground editor or group with a grudge (acronym "gag") use AE to pursue other editors. Too often the Admins here seem unable to recognize this for what it is and to shut down these nasty threads. It undermines community respect for the process. This needs to be closed toot sweet. SPECIFICO talk 13:41, 12 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Tiptoethrutheminefield

So here we are yet again: VM, unwashed since 2009, as usual professing to have the cleanest hands on Wikipedia ever, and his ardent follower MVBW with his strange routine of retiring and then unretiring and then retiring and then unretiring and then retiring and then unretiring. I find it strange that what for other editors would be condemned as activities promoting edit warring is for these two editors always dismissed as just a case of editors having "similar views" and watchlists. Tiptoethrutheminefield (talk) 17:00, 14 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Result concerning Volunteer Marek and My very best wishes

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

The evidence I've looked through so far is damning. I hope Volunteer Marek and My very best wishes can explain why they've clearly tag-teamed articles during edit wars for years, and why they continue to do so to this day. I'd also be very interested to hear why My very best wishes thinks that Vladimir Putin, the leader of the second most powerful nation on the globe, is exempted from the BLP policy. — Coffee // have a cup // beans // 12:38, 7 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Setting the concerns of tag-teaming aside, this type of childish behavior on a world-leader's article potentially merits a ban (@Volunteer Marek: for starting it and @My very best wishes: for continuing it) from the Eastern European arena. And I'm also considering if the clear, slow moving edit-war on the DNC chair's article (assisted by Mvbw), coupled with edit summaries like this one (which is VM making legal accusations against a major campaign, that have not been confirmed and are not supported by the sources in the relevant article), is merit for bans for post-1932 American Politics as well. VM has a clear POV, and that is quite troubling considering the topics he's editing. The same applies for Mvbw. — Coffee // have a cup // beans // 07:32, 9 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  - @Volunteer Marek: First, shorten your complete statement to 500 words or we'll be forced to hat them for you. Second, it was clearly a pointy edit; removing something you stated in the summary you, yourself, didn't think should go - just because the other editor had removed something you thought should stay. I consider edits like that to be below the level of maturity required here, and do not consider calling a spade a spade to be anything close to a "personal attack". Also, I find it necessary to remind you that there is no statute of limitations here, so any comments regarding the timeline without addressing the real issue are unwanted and unhelpful. — Coffee // have a cup // beans // 08:20, 9 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
    - As to the "hack" allegation; one source positing that it is possible the law was broken does not give you a free pass to go around claiming that the staffers actually hacked into the server. The relevant legal definitions can be found at this site, since you seem to be unaware of the legal ramifications that term entails. — Coffee // have a cup // beans // 08:40, 9 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
    - @Volunteer Marek: I never said "in the article", so stop using false quotation marks. I said "in the relevant article", and linked to that relevant article (NGP VAN). And that Newsweek source you just linked to never once used the word "hack", and in no way adds to your argument here. But, that's besides the point. Edit summaries are held to the BLP policy just like the article's themselves, and you aren't allowed to make statements of legal certainty that aren't actually certain. Especially, when stating a claim that someone has actually committed a crime. So far you have yet to convince me that your edits in this matter or at Putin's article are allowed per policy. Until you do that, my consideration of a ban still stands. — Coffee // have a cup // beans // 09:07, 9 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  - @Volunteer Marek: "It was just an edit summary which pointed out the logic of a particular argument." - Are you claiming that the edit summary was not for the edit you were making, or are you claiming that you didn't state in the summary that you removed that text to make a point (which you didn't even agree with)? — Coffee // have a cup // beans // 08:33, 9 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Volunteer Marek: and @My very best wishes: Please mind the word limit of 500 words per statement and trim down or hat longer sections as appropriate. Seraphimblade ^{Talk to me} 21:15, 7 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I'll go over EtienneDolet's more extensive evidence page, but so far I'm not seeing anything that would merit a sanction. There's no evidence of direct collusion to evade 1RR and--absent that--I'm not seeing a specific disruptive act that would merit a topic ban. Usually we have conduct issues in how an editor interacts with others on a topic (sometimes an outgrowth of POV-pushing) or intensive edit warring. What's happened in the last several months since ArbCom rejected the case? As for this Putin BLP thing, in context it appears to be more of a joke or sarcastic than literally "Putin doesn't fall under the BLP policy," which would clearly be ridiculous. I'd advise Volunteer Marek to calm down and substantially reduce his response per this page's rules; otherwise, I'm not inclined to impose a sanction at this time. Lord Roem ~ (talk) 03:10, 8 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- I think I should elaborate on my concern with the request here. It seems to rely on the assumption that MVBW follows Marek around with the intent to get around revert restrictions. Absent some evidence that Marek is telling MVBW to do this, I don't know why it's Marek's fault that another editor is following them around. I totally understand the basis of concern behind tag-teaming: it's a way for editors to push a position across pages by working together and never breaking the letter of the rules. On the other hand, how does one establish that two editors are working together? I think it's clear MVBW has some bizarre editing behavior that--yes, does--appear to indicate very similar watchlists. How is that, in and of itself, a sanctionable offense? If the AC establishes some standard to evaluate tag-teaming, then I'd be more comfortable enforcing this request. Otherwise, our go to is the simple question "Is this editor causing disruption and POV-pushing on the page?" I may need to look over some of the recent evidence, but my initial analysis is that there's nothing particularly disruptive in the edits being done. Is there anything recent, like in the last month, that would justify a sanction? Frankly, a lot of what's presented seems stale. Lord Roem ~ (talk) 03:11, 9 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  - Marek, could you hat some of your material and also respond to the Debbie Wasserman Schultz edits? Apart from the tag-teaming stuff, I'm sure you can see why so many reverts on that page of controversial material could be concerning. Lord Roem ~ (talk) 05:12, 9 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  - Also, @Athenean: could you, or another editor, give some context on what the talk page discussion was like regarding these reverts? It seems a lot of the material being removed was critical coverage of Schultz. What was the consensus at the time, if any? Lord Roem ~ (talk) 05:15, 9 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
    - I'm on the fence here on a few things and would love some other uninvolved admins to give their thoughts-- @Laser brain:, @Bishonen:, @NeilN:, @The Blade of the Northern Lights:, @RegentsPark: --Lord Roem ~ (talk) 05:01, 12 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I've been on both sides with both groups of editors, and I do not see evidence of tag teaming, nor do I see evidence of disruption by either Marek or ~~his sock~~ My Very Best Wishes. VM has a tendency to be a hothead, but he's not the only one, and the diffs I looked at (not all the diffs provided here, but a couple of random ones) prove him to work within policy. The edit to the Putin lead, for instance, makes a point but I wouldn't call it POINTy (even if that sounds contradictory), and this is stuff that has been discussed on the talk page. MVBW's BLP comment is not to be taken literally, that's obvious to me. Drmies (talk) 16:04, 9 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
There are some things in evidence that make me blow air out of my nose, but nothing I would say is sanctionable. Tag-team editing is a very difficult thing to characterize, let alone prove. My watchlist is full of pages across many domains where there are discernible groups of good faith editors acting similarly. I don't think we want to get into the business of calling that sanctionable behavior. With due respect to the filer, I understand why you perceive collusion, but you'd need a lot more specific and non-circumstantial evidence. --Laser brain (talk) 13:30, 12 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Aggressive editing, yes. Sanctionable, no. The heart of this complaint is the 'tag-teaming' but, like it or not, there are sub-networks of collaborative editors who look at each others edits and then appear in odd places to comment, revert and become part of the discussion. Unless there is evidence of off-wiki collaboration, this isn't really sanctionable. --regentspark (comment) 13:59, 12 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Tag-teaming can be disruptive but I don't see that here. Unrelated to this issue, we have a group of great content builders who work together and support each other because they have similar views on article content. We can't call that kind of cooperation "tag-teaming". With this matter, from the diffs I've looked at, Mvbw uses different reasons than VM for his reverts. If he stops doing that, then we have a good case for tag-teaming. --NeilN ^{talk to me} 14:23, 12 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I'm closing this with no action based on the consensus that the complaint doesn't rise to anything sanctionable. Of course, this is without prejudice to future issues, if any arise. Lord Roem ~ (talk) 01:09, 15 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Malik Shabazz

Kamel Tebaast (talk · contribs) is topic banned from the topic of the Arab-Israeli conflict, broadly construed, for one month. No action taken against Malik Shabazz (talk · contribs). Lord Roem ~ (talk) 20:48, 13 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning Malik Shabazz

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: Kamel Tebaast (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 04:28, 10 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

User against whom enforcement is requested: Malik Shabazz (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

WP:ARBPIA3; WP:EDITWAR; WP:1RR; WP:CIVIL, specifically taunting and WP:HARASS.

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

M.Shabazz made three two reverts in a 24-hour period in an article and topic under WP:1RR:

2016-08-06T21:49:48 Kamel Tebaast's first edit.
2016-08-07T06:03:52 M.Shabazz's first revert [of Kamel Tebaast's edit] in 24-hour period.
[#2016-08-07T18:40:52 M.Shabazz's second revert in 24-hour period.
2016-08-07T18:44:39 Epson Salts's revert of M.Shabazz's edit.
2016-08-07T18:45:43 M.Shabazz's third second revert in 24-hour period [however, his note states "Reverted 1 edit by Epson Salts

M.Shabazz then taunted to take him to WP:ANEW or [[WP:AE]:

2016-08-08T18:54:27
2016-08-09T20:43:31 This is a taunt to Epson Salts to "report" him, "or kindly shut the fuck up."

M.Shabazz uses threats [I believe to stifle opposing opinions]:

2016-07-23T22:57:20 M.Shabazz threatened to have me blocked for what he termed disruptive editing, violating Wikipedia's neutral point of view policy, and adding personal commentary.

The two examples that he gave here and here were WP:BRD, in which his first example, "security" was accepted into the lede and the second example "deleting the word "unilateral", seems to have come to a consensus in the Talk page here.

2016-07-23T23:05:58 I challenged M.Shabazz's threat against me.
2016-07-23T23:25:00 M.Shabazz again threatened me: "My promise still stands, though: "keep up the POV pushing and you'll get a one-way trip to WP:AE."
2016-07-23T23:36:19 I informed M.Shabazz about my BOLD edit and I asked why he didn't direct his energy to the "TALK page" where it was being discussed.
2016-08-07T18:45:52 M.Shabazz informed Espson Salts that his/her reverts "did not appear constructive".

Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any

Unaware.

If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)

I believe that user:Malik Shabazz was an administrator.
Made a 1RR pledge here.
I believe user Malik Shabazz was in an arbitration request or enforcement procedure about the area of conflict in the last twelve months, dealing with some of these same issues, specifically regarding civility toward other users here.

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

M.Shabazz has made Wikipedia a difficult environment, especially for newer editors who may have opposing views. That is not in Wikipedia's best interest. Kamel Tebaast 04:28, 10 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

At Malik Shabazz's suggestion, I re-read the WP:3RR. It states: "A "revert" means any edit (or administrative action) that reverses the actions of other editors, in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material. A series of consecutive saved revert edits by one user with no intervening edits by another user counts as one revert." Accordingly, I miscategorized his second revert and have since changed that. However, although Malik Shabazz states that he simply "added to what Kemal Tebaast had written" is disingenuous at best and is one revert.

To his credit, User:Zero0000 warned me about violating the 1RR here. I immediately self-reverted. When I gave Malik Shabazz the same opportunity to self-revert, he taunted me to report him. He can straw man this to death with bad sources and boomerang, but in the end, it is on him for violating the 1RR that some editors seem to want avoid.

I'm also intrigued by editors, such as Malik Shabazz and Nishidani, who are vocal about other editors POV-pushing, when this and this is front and center. Intriguing.

Comment regarding Nishidani: I was not going to respond to Nishadani's diatribe, but his out of context examples have reached a limit. I will only highlight two that show that his context is misplaced and wrong. First, my comment to "Mark the date and time. I believe that this is the first time that I agree with Nishidani." was after interacting with and witnessing him on several discussions and having literally never agreed with him. As such, mine was nothing more than a lighthearted comment, which, like most things, he took out of context and added an insidiousness slant, as if I could not have reached an opinion in several discussions. Second, and most important, Nishidani's statement below that I failed "to exercise careful judgment as he stems the tide of editors who 'wikiwash history' by mentioning an Arab presence in Palestine" is out of context, wrong, a lie, and I tried several times to impart that to Nishidani. Someone had manipulated a source and wrote that the kibbutz got its name "from the Arab village that once stood here, Khirbet Bait Ilfa." In fact, the exact source read: "The city is named after the nearby ruins of Khirbet Beit Ilfa; it shows no occupation before the Roman period." My meaning was, as I explained several times to Nishidani that changing the source to show that the kibbutz was sitting on top of an abandoned Arab village was wrong. Yet nobody would know that from how he presented it. And where was Nishidani's outrage when he learned that someone deliberately wrote that the kibbutz was sitting on an old Arab village when that's not the fact? Nor did he write below that after he clarified something, I immediately corrected it and placed it into the another section. But why would he, that obviously wouldn't fit his agenda. In any case, as long as we are not discussing the 1:RR, all the better. Kamel Tebaast 21:07, 10 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you, Drmies and Lord Roem, for the clarity about reverts. I'm pleased to learn that this edit should be considered a "re-write", and this undo here constitutes only one revert on my part. Is that correct? And, for further clarity, I can also make additional "re-writes" within the same article (obviously following standard policies). Is that correct as well? Thank you. Kamel Tebaast 17:31, 11 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Silly me, I actually thought I was dealing civilly with Nishidani on the Arafat Talk page, but I see that I must deal with him on two fronts. If Nishidani has a problem with me violating the 1RR for my recent edits, he should file an enforcement request. Otherwise, to paraphrase M.Shabazz, he should "kindly shut the...(be quiet)."

Regarding his assertions, I wrote to him here:

"Regarding your points, that is your contention that this is "disruptive" and maybe other "people think" it as well. As the sentence presently reads: "The majority of the Palestinian people—regardless of political ideology or faction—viewed him as a heroic freedom fighter and martyr who symbolized the national aspirations of his people..." Really? Please explain how that works in the context and detail with your explanation above. In the end (literally), the sentence was a check and balance between two divergent opinions of Arafat. However, one (the Palestinian) was fully weighted while the other was a throw away phrase that, insidiously limited his role as an international terrorist by only bringing in the Israeli view. Either take out the "heroic freedom fighter and martyr" or we need to give more context and detail to his actions on the other side."

Obviously this is a content dispute, but Nishidani seems to want to push his POV here as well so he opened that door.

:For even further clarity, Nishidani reverted me here (one revert), then he went in and edited again here. Would that not constitute two reverts in a 24-hour period since his writing was not adding to my original wording, but rather to his revert. Also, In his second edit, he left out the word "him". Would it be allowable for me to fix it? Kamel Tebaast 20:05, 11 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know what you guys are talking about. The first time I was made aware that M.Shabazz was a past administrator was here. I'm still trying to understand why I would be topic banned for three edits where I discussed the issues on the Talk page. Kamel Tebaast 22:03, 12 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Yes, here.

Discussion concerning Malik Shabazz

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by Malik Shabazz

It's 1 o'clock in the morning, and I'll respond to this silliness in greater detail later. But I wish to say that if the novel interpretation of 1RR cooked up by editors Kemal Tebaast and Epson Salts is given any credence, editing controversial articles will become impossible. In my edit to Jewish Voice for Peace at 13:03 on 7 August, I added to what Kemal Tebaast had written; I did not make a reversion. Good night. — MShabazz ^Talk/_Stalk 05:06, 10 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

What Kemal Tebaast calls my second revert is my second consecutive edit to the article on 7 August. It's not a reversion at all, but even if it were, consecutive edits are considered a single edit for 1RR purposes. Of course, you have to actually read WP:3RR to know that. I wrote on Talk:Jewish Voice for Peace that I thought my friends had a problem counting. Perhaps they have a reading comprehension problem as well. — MShabazz ^Talk/_Stalk 11:25, 10 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I recommend that Kemal Tebaast and Epson Salts re-read WP:3RR and start to use a little common sense. I also recommend that they read WP:BOOMERANG, because the longer they keep up this ridiculous shtick, the more likely it is that their own behavior will be scrutinized. Finally, for all their belly-aching about gaming 1RR, Epson Salts hasn't answered an important question: do they think ifamericansknew.org is a reliable source, and do they think it was a problem that I removed it a little more than 24 hours after I reverted totally unrelated material? Does anybody? That's the essence of this complaint. — MShabazz ^Talk/_Stalk 15:15, 10 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

No, Epson Salts, not "special pleading". That would require a violation, which is not the case. By your own admission, I removed a shitty source more than 24 hours after my last edit to the article. Show me how that violates WP:GAME. Only in your mind, and that of Kemal Tebaast, is that gaming the system. — MShabazz ^Talk/_Stalk 16:33, 10 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Epson Salts, I see, is still having trouble with reading comprehension. I'll see if I can help them. "Gaming the system means deliberately using Wikipedia policies and guidelines in bad faith to thwart the aims of Wikipedia." Can you explain how my removing a source we both agree is shitty after 24 hours had passed since my last edit on the page was engaging in bad faith? how it thwarted the aims of Wikipedia? No, I didn't think so. — Malik Shabazz ^Talk/_Stalk 00:59, 11 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I hate to get side-tracked from the "important issue" here—the fact that Frick and Frack have made up an interpretation of a reversion so ridiculous that, more than 21 hours after this complaint was filed, not a single editor had endorsed it—but anybody who is interested in Kemal Tebaast and their POV pushing is welcome to read my (perfectly civil) discussion with another editor on the subject from last month. — Malik Shabazz ^Talk/_Stalk 00:59, 11 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Johnuniq

There is an ANI report where Kamel Tebaast (talk · contribs) (account created on 30 May 2016) uses perfectly formed procedures. Naturally no one can prove anything except for the obvious: WP:ARBPIA is not working. Johnuniq (talk) 04:50, 10 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by uninvolved Softlavender

Oh good grief there's only one revert in all of those diffs. The rest is normal editing (and by the way, includes refactoring of what were previously WP:BLP violations). I agree with Johnuniq -- the details of that ANI (including especially the numerous findings by Bolter21) are quite damning, and indeed the OP's entire edit history including this AE is pretty telling. Softlavender (talk) 06:05, 10 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Kingsindian

This is a content dispute, there's no WP:1RR violation here.

A note on the wider dispute, since this is quite clearly broader than the small issue here. Kamel Tebaast is a new editor and they have a strong POV, which is fine as long as they remember that editors are allowed to have POV, but articles should be as WP:NPOV as possible. For instance, these two edits to the Israeli West Bank barrier clearly advanced a POV. If they had simply added "security barrier" to the "separation barrier" description, it would have been fine (indeed, the discussion finally converged to this solution). But simply changing the description is not correct. Similarly, Malik was quite right to warn Kamel Tebaast about his POV pushing in the second edit. It was not a "threat": if Kamel Tebaast thinks that his edits were proper, then they have nothing to fear from an WP:AE report, just like Malik replied to Kamel Tebaast and Epson Salts in this particular dispute.

In general, Kamel Tebaast seems amenable to reason and willing to compromise, so I see no reason they can't continue to work productively in this area. The veiled accusations of sockpuppetry made against them here and elsewhere should either be backed up with an SPI or discouraged. Kingsindian ♝ ♚ 09:38, 10 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Nishidani

After User:Sepsis II’s ban, which was basically correct, KT appeared to suddenly think he had some mission to extend the verdict given to everyone else he might disagree with, bymaking inquiries at User:The Blade of the Northern Lights’s page re User:Nableezy, User:Zero0000, and User:Nishidani's general approach. He then went after User:Bolter21 , and now has User:MShabazz in his sights. all within a month.

Apart from the flurry of attempts to go for other editors, his editing is highly erratic, and demands some control. I saw a news blip re Hank Johnson, checked and found, not a wiki echo but a complete symphonic paragraph (WP:Undue/WP:BLP) ballooned out of it to screw him for antisemitism. my correction for balance immediately met KT's approval, and then was partially reverted the next day with the edit summary WP:ARBPIA3#500/30 (With 48,000 edits in 10 years, I still fail the 500/30 barrier. Bizarre). One remark caught my attention:'Mark the date and time. I believe that this is the first time that I agree with Nishidani.’ This is very odd, for someone who says he's fresh to Wikipedia. Many of the edits are so bad they demand reverting (as here, for patently using poor sources (like this) or failing to exercise careful judgment as he stems the tide of editors who 'wikiwash history' by mentioning an Arab presence in Palestine. I think ARBPIA3#500/30 is a major improvement, and works. It can be gamed, of course. But people who do so will betray their hand pretty quickly if they do so, by, for one, going after editors by making silly edits that demand reversion, and then using those reverts as evidence to get rid of an established editor they dislike, as has occurred here. Nishidani (talk) 09:43, 10 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

This began as a spurious complaint Malik had violated WP:IRR. It is obvious he didn't. But the plaintiff seems to run a very fine line here with impunity while we are still here. Yasser Arafat is under IRR. Yet

(a)18:36, 9 August 2016‎ here KT tried to violate NPOV using an execrably poor source to make a pitch for the subject of the article as a terrorist.

As History's biography wrote, "For two decades the PLO launched bloody attacks on Israel, and Arafat gained a reputation as a ruthless terrorist

I reverted it with an explanation on the talk page. There are a lot of political figures in I/P articles with a terrorist background, on both sides, I noted, but we don't try to push that, or say it is the 'truth' in leads etc.

Today, he essentially reinserted a variation of this.

(b)17:06, 11 August 2016

while many Israelis and people worldwide have described him as an unrepentant terrorist because of his decades of violence, aimed mostly at civilians

This was duly reverted by User:Ohnoitsjamie

(c)18:22, 11 August 2016 he restored it

while many Israelis and people worldwide have described him as an unrepentant terrorist because of his decades of violence, aimed mostly at civilians.

and this was duly reverted by myself again.

Now I have always admitted that I have no understanding of 1R, except to think that, if I am reverted, I don't touch the page for at least a day. I know it's simple, but I can't figure it out.

But it looks to me as though (b) and (c)inserted between a revert within just over an hour constitutes two rsverts to a variation of the same problem in (a) which I had to remonstrate with him about. Whatever the technicalities, he is pushing in material to unhinge NPOV, and doing it against counsel, explanations, and at least 2 other editors.Nishidani (talk) 19:11, 11 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Regarding eventual measures, this is somewhat complex. KT rushed through, it seems, the 500/30 qualification. His grasp of policy is very shaky. He regards the area as dominated by several POV pushers, and has rapidly resorted to complaints here and at A/1 that have been dismissed. On the other hand, so far there is no need for draconian measures,-KT is relatively new- and we should heed Kingsindian's point that he does use the talk pages, (if only, too often, after an editorial fait accompli on articles). I think a verbal slap on the wrist insufficient, because there is a repetitive pattern even after warnings. Probably a week or two in porridge would get the message over, that, whatever the POV and its strength any editor may have, high standards, detachment and care in sourcing are fundamental. The roughshod has no place here: festina lente. It is salutary also to ask editors overinvolved in the I/P area to show they also can contribute positively to other, less toxic articles. Nishidani (talk) 12:00, 12 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Epson Salts

For those editors who are having difficulty seeing the 1RR violation: According to WP:ANEW, "Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert." Kamel Tebaast added this line to the article - 'JVP endorsed the platform of The Black Lives Matter movement, which, among other things, accuses Israel of "genocide" ' Malik's first revert, at 13:03, 7 August 2016 , removes the words "among other things, accuses Israel of " and replaces them with his own formulation. That's the first revert, a partial one, which undoes the work of Kamel. Then he does this at 01:45, 8 August 2016 - [114] - a complete revert of my edit, which is revert number 2, and on top of that, at 24 hours plus two minutes from the last revert , he does this [115] - another full revert, of a different editor. If the latter is not a sanction-worthy gaming of the restriction, I don't know what is. (and as I've noted on the article's talk page, while I don't think that the material Malik removed in his last edit comes from a reliable source, there is no exception to 1RR that allows for removing unreliable sources. This is "special pleading" , to allow a 1RR violation to stand because it was a "good edit").

There are other issues involved here, including Malik's taunting (as noted by Kemal) and lack of civility , both in his edit summaries and in the talk page discussion; gross violation of Wikipedia's WP:SYNTH policy; and general edit warring against 3 other editors on that page, which he seems to think he owns - but the above is clear cut enough, I think.

(added) Yes Malik, of course in my head, making a third revert 24 hours and 2 minutes after your 2nd one is gaming (which includes, as your own link says, "using the letter of policy to violate the broader principles of the policy."), but that what we're here for - to see what uninvolved administrators and arbitrators thinks about a revert done 2 minutes outside the bright red line. Epson Salts (talk) 00:10, 11 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Lord Roem: for future reference, could you explain why you found Debresser's 2 edits spaced 24 hours + 2 hours (give or take) on an article subject to 1RR to be , at a minimum, a warning-worthy gaming of the restriction (see your statement here, 2 days ago: [116]), yet Malik's 2 edits, spaced 24 hours + 2 minutes on an article subject to 1RR to not be worthy of a similar warning? Epson Salts (talk) 01:52, 13 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Lord Roem:I am referring to this sequence of edits:

01:45, 8 August 2016 - [117] -you will note it is described as "(Reverted 1 edit by Epson Salts (talk) to last revision by Malik Shabazz. (TW))"
01:47, 9 August 2016 - [118] , this, too , is described as "(Undid revision 733526348 by Mizuki84 (talk) not a reliable source, never in a million years, no)"

These two are spread exactly 24 hours and 2 minutes apart - if Debresser's sequence of edits was , in your words, gaming of the 1RR restriction, why isn't this one? Epson Salts (talk) 03:10, 13 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by (username)

Result concerning Malik Shabazz

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

I don't see the violation--what I do see is a very, very tendentious (new) editor. What I don't see is whether they've been made aware of ARBPIA 1, 2, 3, and the prequel, though the jubilation in this edit suggests they know what's going on. Note that that edit was made in a thread warning them about edit warring; note the tone and content of that conversation. Drmies (talk) 02:37, 11 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
There aren't two reverts within 24 hours, period. That first set of edits is a re-write. I also share the same concern that Kingsindian, Nishidani, and Drmies have. Malik isn't the one who needs to be warned here. Lord Roem ~ (talk) 04:39, 11 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

This series of edits by Kamel are particularly troubling: 1, 2, & 3. It seems they persisted in their addition after talk page discussion showed there was a dispute about inclusion and wording. Based on this concern, I'd like to hear feedback on whether a warning is sufficient or a short topic ban would be appropriate. Lord Roem ~ (talk) 04:46, 12 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I support a topic ban at the least. Kamel Tebaast is obviously not the user's first account, per Johnuniq above and other QUACK-y indications. I'm not sure whether the previous account[s] is/are blocked or topic banned, though it seems likely. Apparently nobody has thought it worth while to alert this account to the discretionary sactions; like Drmies I do believe they're already aware of them, not least because in this very report, they talk about M. Shabazz being probabaly aware of the DS because they used to be an admin. Bishonen | talk 13:43, 12 August 2016 (UTC).[reply]

Epson, Mike didn't do two reverts outside of 24 hours. He did only one revert. The other case you mention was very different, both in form and substance. Lord Roem ~ (talk) 02:30, 13 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I support a topic ban as well. The diff pointed out by drmies and the reverts on Yasser Arafat are concerning and a topic ban will give Kamel the chance to show that they aren't purely agenda driven. --regentspark (comment) 14:06, 12 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

AmirSurfLera

AmirSurfLera blocked six months for a repeat topic ban violation. Seraphimblade ^{Talk to me} 21:12, 15 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning AmirSurfLera

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: RolandR (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 11:28, 12 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

User against whom enforcement is requested: AmirSurfLera (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced: WP:ARBPIA

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

04:34, 12 August 2016 Breach of topic ban; see below.

Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any

15 June 2014 Blocked for 48 hours by Callanec for "Breaching 1RR restriction on 2013–14 Israeli–Palestinian peace talks"
21 June 2014 Blocked for one week by Callanec for "Breaching 1RR restriction on Basic Laws of Israel"
5 July 2014 Blocked for one month by Bbb23 for "violating WP:1RR at Mandatory Palestine"
7 May 2016 Blocked for three months by Seraphimblade for "Multiple topic ban violations"

If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)

Previously blocked as a discretionary sanction for conduct in the area of conflict, see the block log linked to above.
Previously given a discretionary sanction for conduct in the area of conflict on 8 July 2014 by Lord Roem (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA).

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

Immediately on returning to editing after their latest, three-month, block for "multiple topic ban violations", this editor edited a BLP clearly marked as covered by ARBPIA sanctions, to reinsert repeatedly removed trivia based, according to their own edit, on "rumours and hearsay". This is both a defiance of the topic ban, and an egregious breach of BLP policy.

Bishonen, please note that I did provide a link to the original topic ban in my submission above. There was no need to post it again with the suggestion that I had neglected to do so. RolandR (talk) 19:41, 12 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Kingsindian, it is not simply an "atrocious" edit; this editor has already been blocked four times for breaches of the ARBPIA sanctions, and one of their first edits on return from a three-month block was to revert a recent edit of mine (as can be seen from the date on the tag included in the edit), in order to restore this piece of idiocy to a BLP. This demonstrates not only contempt for the sanctions and topic ban, but also a complete disregard for the requirements for a BLP and obvious edit-warring and battlefield tendencies. RolandR (talk) 13:44, 13 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Here

Discussion concerning AmirSurfLera

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by AmirSurfLera

What's the relation between Netanyahu's IQ and the Arab-Israeli conflict?--AmirSurfLera (talk) 16:01, 12 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I won't edit in that article, but could you explain me the connection between the IQ of an Israeli politician to the conflict with the Arabs? There are some articles that fall only partially in ARBPIA, such as history of Israel, that's why I edited about ancient topics unrelated to the modern Arab-Israeli conflict, the same way not everything about Netanyahu is related to the conflict, such as his family, education, etc.--AmirSurfLera (talk) 18:00, 12 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Sir Joseph

Meh. Is this really how AE will operate? We don't need to be so petty and it's usually the same core group of posters who submit these "gotcha" style AE actions. RolandR's MO just seems to be reverting and reporting. For something as simple as this a simple message on the talk page should have sufficed.

Statement by Kingsindian

There was clear topic ban breach, but one could make an argument that WP:ARBPIA notices are sometimes overly broad. It would be a bit silly to indef block for such a borderline case, imho. If one wants to "punish" AmirSurfLera, a month block would be enough.

The edit was atrocious, by the way. A clickbait and dubious source used to assert that Netanyahu had an IQ of 180. It should fail WP:BLP at the very least. Kingsindian ♝ ♚ 12:34, 13 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by (username)

Result concerning AmirSurfLera

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

This is another flagrant violation of this user's topic ban immediately after returning from a three-month block for the same. We're not going to debate how the page falls under ARBPIA—it's clearly marked as such. Dennis Brown was calling for an indef block last time, and I'm going to agree with that. POV/SPA editor needs to exit. --Laser brain (talk) 16:28, 12 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
If this editor can't see how editing an article about an Israeli political figure would be prohibited under a topic ban on Israel-Palestine, I think there's no hope here. At this point, I would agree with an indef (first year under DS, thereafter under admin discretion) and absent any objections, will do so. Seraphimblade ^{Talk to me} 17:18, 12 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Since there seems to be some hesitation about an indef, I'm willing to go with six months this time as an escalation from three. I will warn AmirSurfLera that this will be the fifth violation for which they have been blocked, and at some point, enough will be enough. Don't edit about Israel or Palestine, or anything closely related to it, period. Absent objection, I'll close the request as such shortly. Seraphimblade ^{Talk to me} 15:13, 15 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

With some effort, I've found the record of this topic ban here, linked for the convenience of others. It's an indefinite ban, and the user's edit of Benjamin Netanyahu certainly does breach it. I'm on the fence about an indefinite block for such an infraction, as I have some sympathy with Sir Joseph's protest above. But it's of course proposed as a "last straw" sanction, and I won't directly object to it. Bishonen | talk 19:35, 12 August 2016 (UTC).[reply]

RolandR, I didn't mean to hint that you had been neglectful; I just couldn't find it. Bishonen | talk 20:04, 12 August 2016 (UTC).[reply]

No objection to a long or indef block, as proposed by Laser brain and Seraphimblade. Lord Roem ~ (talk) 20:52, 13 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The edit on Netanyahu certainly violates the topic ban so, I suppose, a block is in order. But, like Bish, I'm on the fence about an indef block. On the one hand, I can see that bans should be enforced strictly, otherwise we'll be debating each case endlessly and who has the time for that. On the other hand, I have some sympathy for Kingsindian's view that, perhaps, a simple talk page request (to withdraw the edit) would have sufficed. Since the editor has been blocked recently for similar violations, it's probably best to let seraphimblade (the previous blocking admin) make the judgement. --regentspark (comment) 22:39, 14 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

[1] The administrator may indicate consent at any time before, during, or after imposition of the restriction.

[2] This criterion does not apply if the original action was imposed as a result of rough consensus at the arbitration enforcement noticeboard, as there would be no single enforcing administrator.

[a]

[b]

@@ Line 588: / Line 588: @@
 ==AmirSurfLera==
+{{hat|{{u|AmirSurfLera}} blocked six months for a repeat topic ban violation. [[User:Seraphimblade|Seraphimblade]] <small><sup>[[User talk:Seraphimblade|Talk to me]]</sup></small> 21:12, 15 August 2016 (UTC) }}
 <small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br>Requests may not exceed 500 [[Word count#Software|words]] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small>
@@ Line 654: / Line 655: @@
 *No objection to a long or indef block, as proposed by Laser brain and Seraphimblade. '''[[User:Lord Roem|Lord Roem]]''' ~ ([[User talk:Lord Roem|talk]]) 20:52, 13 August 2016 (UTC)
 *The edit on Netanyahu certainly violates the topic ban so, I suppose, a block is in order. But, like Bish, I'm on the fence about an indef block. On the one hand, I can see that bans should be enforced strictly, otherwise we'll be debating each case endlessly and who has the time for that. On the other hand, I have some sympathy for Kingsindian's view that, perhaps, a simple talk page  request (to withdraw the edit) would have sufficed. Since the editor has been blocked recently for similar violations, it's probably best to let seraphimblade (the previous blocking admin) make the judgement. --[[User:RegentsPark|regentspark]] <small>([[User talk:RegentsPark|comment]])</small> 22:39, 14 August 2016 (UTC)
+{{hab}}

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