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September 4

highest and lowest elevations in each state

where can find a list of the highest and lowest elevation in each U.S. state? I heard the lowest point in Colorado is still higher than the highest spot in Pennsylvania. is this true. I know Louisiana, Florida are flat but PennsylvaniaPayneham (talk) 01:29, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

Whoever told you that is correct. Colorado's lowest point is where the Arikaree River leaves the state, at 3315-ft. Pennsylvania's highest point is Mount Davis, at 3213-ft. Elevation information can be found in each state's article. Xenon54 / talk / 01:43, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

See List of U.S. states by elevation. Dismas|^(talk) 01:45, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

If you want a bound (off-line) source, there are similar tables in, among many other places, the annual editions of the Statistical Abstract of the United States (table no. 363 in the 2003 edition, for example) and the World Almanac and Book of Facts (page 448 in the 2009 edition).

There's also a club that tries to visit and document the highest point in each of the more than 3,000 counties of the United States. I consulted their web-site when editing The Bronx#Location and physical features, where you can consult the footnotes (or ask me) if you're interested. —— Shakescene (talk) 04:29, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

The high point of Manhattan is not mentioned in its article that I can find. Was Hilltop Park on the high point of Manhattan, or was there a higher point? Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?}carrots 05:00, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

That's because I added an extra S to the URL (I misremembered it as peakbaggers), and some enterprising cyber-squatter (may they all be machine-gunned before sunrise in front of their disconnected terminals) has exploited the difference. I fixed the URL above. Here's their list of highest peaks in each county of New York state: http://www.peakbagger.com/list.aspx?lid=13319 —— Shakescene (talk) 05:20, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

Aha. Thank you! It appears that while Hilltop Park sat on a fairly high point of the island, hence its name, but the true high point is a number of blocks north and west of that site. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 05:27, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

I'm guessing some of the counties in Florida (or Iowa for that matter) have the same figure for the high and low points. If you've ever been to Kennedy Space Center, you'll notice that the launchpad is an artificial hill with a channel running through it for the exhaust to dissipate. I was told on the tour that if they had tried to dig a trench on flat ground, it would have filled with groundwater rather quickly. The entire freakin' state is about 3 feet above sea level. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 04:53, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

Florida's highest elevation, Britton Hill, is 345 feet (105 m). Even the highest points in Rhode Island [Jerimoth Hill, 812 feet (247 m)] and Mississippi [Woodall Mountain, 806 feet (246 m)] are more than double that. —— Shakescene (talk) 05:07, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

What about Manhattan? Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 05:14, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

Yes, indeed, what about Manhattan? I'll have Manhattan, The Bronx and Staten/Island too. (It's lovely going through the zoo.) Her highest point is 245 feet (75 m), which is below Britton Hill's peak. See revised URL above. Unfortunately, this particular site doesn't yet list county maximum heights outside the Northeastern U.S. See http://www.peakbagger.com/ListIndx.aspx#1 —— Shakescene (talk) 05:34, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

Er, the site actually says 265 feet (81 m) for Manhattan. To find it on the list, you have to know that Manhattan is the same as New York County or else guess that "Manhattan High Point" refers to the same Manhattan. (Brooklyn, by the way, is Kings County, and Staten Island is Richmond County.) The high point is in Bennett Park, approximately in line with 183rd Street. --Anonymous, 07:38 UTC, September 4, 2009.

My mistake (my 2nd in the same thread): it is 265 ft (81 m). That error was not from misidentifying Manhattan but just in transcribing the number, most likely when fiddling (unnecessarily in this case) with the "convert" template. Never post when sleepy. —— Shakescene (talk) 20:56, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

We have an article on this hobby: Highpointing. --Sean 15:54, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

California's easy: Mount Whitney is the highest, at 14,505 ft (4,421m), and just 76 miles away is Death Valley (-282 ft, or 86m), the lowest point. Both are also the extremes for the Lower 48. DOR (HK) (talk) 08:08, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

Hi, low -- it's much squealing for little wool (as the devil said when he sheared the pig) when the state in question is flatter than a pancake. --- OtherDave (talk) 21:52, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

And in reference to a section farther down, you know why the prairie is so flat, don't you? Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 22:16, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

jokes

i have always been curious to know that who (makes or)comes up with jokes ,we often hear being circulated through gossips.i even saw some joke books like 1000 funniest jokes. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.186.22.171 (talk) 03:48, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

Henny Youngman used to say there are no "new" jokes. In any case, one of the earliest joke books was called Joe Miller's Jests, a posthumous collection of jokes by Joe Miller (actor), the Henny Youngman of his day. As to a collection of "funniest" jokes, that's always a matter of opinion. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 03:53, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

It might be early, but it is still a newborn compared to the oldest existing collection of jokes. --Saddhiyama (talk) 15:12, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

Henny's example was that in ancient Rome, the Emperor, in a rush to get to some destination, said to his slave, "Call me a chariot!" The slave answered, "OK. You're a chariot." Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 04:36, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

I once read that jokes are made up by men in prison with lots of time on their hands. I do not believe this is entirely true because I have originated topical jokes myself. Edison (talk) 04:11, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

The writers for Your Show of Shows might have agreed with that metaphor. That leads up to the old one that's a bit of a shaggy dog story so I'll keep it short: A prison in which the same jokes circulated so often that they numbered them, and a prisoner would simply say "37!" or "93!" or whatever, and everyone would laugh. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 04:26, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

[edit conflict] Bugs, uncharacteristically, has missed (or was never given) the punchline to that joke. My father told it about a pub (or a bar or a club) where a newcomer is surprised by the uproarious and continued laughter when an old-timer shouts out "93!", only to be topped by even greater hilarity when one of his friends immediately responds with "27!". When it's explained (as Bugs did) why the jokes are numbered, and after fifteen or twenty minutes of hearing increasing laughter even when the same number's repeated several times, the newcomer ventures forth "27!" only to be met with stone-cold, dead silence, and finds the same response when he later tries the hitherto surefire chuckle-raiser, "93!". When he asks his host why no one's laughed or even smiled, he's told "it's not the joke itself that's so important, it's the delivery!" —— Shakescene (talk) 04:45, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

That would be the shaggy dog version. :) Not too shaggy, but longer than a typical Youngman (or Rodney Dangerfield) offering. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 04:49, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

Then someone said, "83!" and there was dead silence. "What happened?", asked a visitor. "He told it wrong." PhGustaf (talk) 04:32, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

The obvious punch line to all this is that under that scenario, an IP address could be a prison monologue. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 04:36, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

The alternative ending is the newcomer says "138!", and everyone nearly wets themselves laughing. Why? Because they'd never heard that one before. AlmostReadytoFly (talk) 08:45, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

I've also heard it where "45!" isn't met with laughter because it's not suitable for mixed company. Matt Deres (talk) 13:06, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

I wonder if any of this is remotely within the universe of answering Opie's question? Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 04:49, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

Taylor-made answers, BB. DOR (HK) (talk) 08:13, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

I suppose the answer is that people come up with jokes. All people from all walks of life. Some people collect them into books. There is no joke factory. Although the Ref desk has a go at times.91.109.206.248 (talk) 08:04, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

Unless you read the short story Jokester by Isaac Asimov..88.96.226.6 (talk) 10:01, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Comedians, Comedy Writers, Satirists and any Tom, Dick or Harry that thinks up something funny. The Internet was it's own Internet Memes, but it's also (I suspect) responsible for the wider cascading of jokes across nations (though I find suprisingly few topical jokes cross cultural borders). 194.221.133.226 (talk) 08:19, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

The previous two answers are the real answers, but Anthony Horowitz wrote The Killing Joke, a novel whose premise is a man who tries to track down the source of a rude joke above his recently deceased mother.

As mentioned in the book, jokes are often rewritten. Political jokes switch allegiance, jokes based on celebrity deaths or scandals change names, ethnic jokes change according to which neighbouring regions are considered stingy or stupid. The "World's funniest joke" turned out to have been written by Spike Milligan for The Goon Show, but a version where the stupid hunters were from New Jersey has been seen. AlmostReadytoFly (talk) 08:45, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

I recall reading a story once (I can't remember the details) in which somebody (a scientist, psychologist?) wondered where jokes came from, so did some serious reseach and determined that nobody ever made them up - they were only ever repeated. So then he deduced that they must have been implanted in our brains (or something like that), by aliens or God, or the creator of the virtual world we were all actually living in - and humour was some way of "testing" us or learning about us. When asked what the consequence of us knowing that humour was only an artificial test, he realised that we would never find anything funny again. Sure enough, he never found anything funny after that. Mitch Ames (talk) 10:15, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

Multivac says alien origin... this is one of Asimov's robot stories. 128.148.38.26 (talk) 15:21, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

For a high-class, philosophical treatment of the subject of "The Jest", there's a segment covering that in Monty Python Live at the Hollywood Bowl. There's a lecture delivered by Graham Chapman, and other Pythoneers demonstrate variations on a jest that it's fair to say could cross all cultural lines. Namely, the Pie in the Face. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 13:21, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

That would be the "Comedy Lecture" originally written for Cambridge Circus. The number joke appears in the new novel Wake that I am currently reading. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 13:58, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

A far older joke collection than Joe Miller's Jests mentioned above is Philogelos meltBanana 15:51, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

Very cool. There are a few of its jokes here[1]. What's amusing is that they had Polish jokes even way back then, but they were about Abderites. PhGustaf (talk) 02:54, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

There's a number of places jokes come from. One of the big ones these days is TV comedy writers. Jay Leno/David Letterman/Saturday Night Live/etc. need jokes to tell every night or every week. They have a room filled with comedy writers who spend their days making up jokes. Usually these are the day jobs of stand-up comedians, who create new jokes for their acts. These get broadcast over the television or in comedy clubs. Alternatively, there are some laypeople who come up with jokes or clever comments to tell their friends. Sometimes there are even humorous true events which get retold (Reader's Digest gets a lot of these). The jokes get remembered, and retold the next day, frequently without mentioning where they were heard. The good ones then get passed from person to person. The joke is subject to the Chinese whispers (telephone) effect, as well as shaggy dog story effects from tellers embellishing it. 10-20 years later, people may not even remember where the joke originated, or what the original form was. -- 128.104.112.179 (talk) 20:48, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

Sigmund Freud wrote a book: 'Jokes and Their Relation to the Unconscious' which says that all jokes are based on one of seven basic premises:

1. Absurdity
2. Allusion
3. Analogy
4. Exaggeration
5. Incorrect reasoning
6. Reproach
7. Word-play

I'm not convinced of that - I don't see which of those the 'shaggy dog' story ends up in. The canonical shaggy dog story says that some guy is seeking the world's shaggiest dog - the story goes into long and tedious details about how he addresses his search, the troubles he goes to find this dog, etc, etc. When he finally tracks it down, he looks at it and says: "It's really not all that shaggy." - and that's the end of the joke.

There are undoubtedly "joke writers" out there who come up with utterly original jokes - but those evolve through continuous retelling - details get confused - better versions outlast the older versions. It's evolution in action - memetics in fact. SteveBaker (talk) 03:34, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

It may be significant that shaggy dog stories and puns are the two main types of joke/humour that normally elicit groans rather than laughter.

One theory of humour is that it involves confounded expectations; i.e. the "punchline" of any joke presents something unlike that which the audience might logically or experientially have expected. In the case of the shaggy dog story, the expectation may be that something funny is anticipated, but is not delivered. 87.81.230.195 (talk) 13:52, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

It's mostly in the telling and the psychodynamics of the situation. Edison (talk) 04:33, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

Hahah I get it, the Emperor meant fetch me a chariot! Cuddlyable3 (talk) 11:43, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

Yes, the original version of the more modern joke, where the man tells his employee, "Call me a taxi!" Hey, I'm not making these up. Blame Dr. Youngman. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 11:58, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

My favorite name for a red wine is "Call me a Cab!" DOR (HK) (talk) 03:25, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

Regarding what makes people laugh at jokes and what makes jokes funny, there is another kind of humour where the audience laughs to show they understand the wit or 'humour' in the joke often as a way of showing superiority, or what about when people laugh to show that they 'relate' to the joke -- and yes as others point out it can also be about presenting the unexpected. There's another form where you're laughing at someone's reaction to something (often used in situation comedy). There's also sympathy laughter like when a comedian on stage asks a fat person in the audience to stand and congratulations them on their fight against anorexia -- some of the audience laughs to make the fat person feel better - others laugh out of surprise because they didn't expect such an insensetive comment - others laugh to show superiority ("I'm not fat, but you really are!") - others laugh when they see the reaction of the fat person trying to laugh it off when inside they must be pissed off (and by laughing they are saying "I understand the unobvious here: I understand that he's laughing but inside he's dying"). I think humour is a human reaction but it's also a construct - different cultures laugh at different things because it has different roles according to their culture. Rfwoolf (talk) 17:33, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Las Vegas $10 Gaming Token - 1996 Stratosphere, .999 Fine Silver?

What company minted the Las Vegas 1996 Stratosphere $10 Gaming Token, .999 Fine Silver? —Preceding unsigned comment added by GIANA0904 (talk • contribs) 15:16, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure it's Global Minting; here is a website dedicated to those "Silver Strike" token collectors. --jpgordon^{::==( o )} 15:49, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

Something on the end of a howitzer

Can anyone tell me what this is? I was wondering if it was some sort of guidance system, but I don't think so, as it's actually bigger than the tank itself. --KageTora - (영호 (影虎)) (talk) 15:56, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

Apparently it's a muffler used during range testing - more photos here. -- Finlay McWalter • Talk 16:05, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

Here is another one. -- Finlay McWalter • Talk 16:10, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

And here is a PDF explaining how they work. -- Finlay McWalter • Talk 16:13, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

Thanks a lot! And it's interesting that you found the exact same picture! --KageTora - (영호 (影虎)) (talk) 16:26, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

These two may very well be the only ones there are. -- Finlay McWalter • Talk 17:27, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

Judging by the shape in the picture the OP posts and the macho nature of war, the object is intended to impress an enemy that size is important. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 09:15, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

Let the innuendo flow! Anyway, I've sent an email to the Federal Ministry Of Defence (Germany) asking them what they need a silencer for, because even if the gun is muted, the explosions that the shells will make won't be, so it won't make much difference to nearby residents, etc. I'll keep you all updated if I get a reply. --KageTora - (영호 (影虎)) (talk) 11:14, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

It's not uncommon for a modern tank's main gun to have an effective range of 4 to 5 km and up, while self-propelled artillery can have effective ranges of well over 10 km. That's a fair bit of distance between the point where the shell is fired and the spot where it lands — possibly enough that it will make a difference to the neighbours. Perhaps more important, for some types of testing one needn't use 'live' rounds of ammunition. Non-explosive shells don't make quite such a loud bang when they land (and they're somewhat safer for the test personnel), but there's no easy way to similarly eliminate the propellant charge. Making the initial firing quieter may make the neighbours happier in such a circumstance — or at least save the test crew from having to set up quite so far away from the base. From an occupational health and safety standpoint, the muffler probably also provides some valuable protection to the technical crew who are developing and testing the guns. Exposing the test crew – especially their ears – to slightly less sound is probably a good idea if they're working on these projects for years on end. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 13:46, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

That makes sense. --KageTora - (영호 (影虎)) (talk) 14:24, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

What I don't understand is why it has to be camoflaged?!? SteveBaker (talk) 14:36, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

Maybe it's a remnant from the Cold War. If the Soviets invaded West Germany, the Germans would want to fire back. They would need the camouflage to remain hidden from the enemy and the silencer so as not to wake the neighbours. Stands to reason. --KageTora - (영호 (影虎)) (talk) 14:44, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

Ah - I was assuming that the silencer didn't work worth a damn and they had to camoflage it to prevent angry neighbours from finding out where all the goddamn noise was coming from. SteveBaker (talk) 17:04, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

"African" Font Question

Why is this font in the title of this poster used so often in posters about Africa and what font is it? --KageTora - (영호 (影虎)) (talk) 19:36, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

I can't identify the font at a glance, but I think what you're seeing is not one font used for African topics but a family of roughly-similar-looking typefaces from which some designers draw to suggest the carving of letters on wood. Three examples of similar fonts from a defunct computer of mine are Bremen, Lithograph and Showcard Gothic. —— Shakescene (talk) 20:44, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

Thanks. I have Showcard Gothic on Word 2007, and it does look very similar, though not exactly the same. The other two I don't have. I'll keep looking around. --KageTora - (영호 (影虎)) (talk) 22:00, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

If that map comes from the Microsoft Encarta Encyclopedia Africana, the typeface might be one especially commissioned for that work. I know that, as it was being created in the early 1990's, the compilers commissioned a graphic design firm to draw 300 new maps specifically for the Encyclopedia. —— Shakescene (talk) 23:21, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

I tried http://www.identifont.com on it. It asked 17 questions and then presented a list of 30 best matches, of which the 3rd and 4th were correct. The font is Lithos, which was inspired by ancient Greek inscriptions carved in stone and gives a "primitive" feel that some might think appropriate for Africa. --Anonymous, 23:33 UTC, September 4, 2009.

That's the one! Thanks! --KageTora - (영호 (影虎)) (talk) 23:44, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

One paragraph in the Lithos article seems rather à propos of your question and my response:

Publications associated with African, African Americans and Southwestern cultures have used Lithos for its "ethnic" feel, even if it is the wrong ethnicity. Lithos has also become something of a generic stand-in whenever a "primitive" feel is desired. For this reason, Lithos has been compared to Rudolf Koch's typeface, Neuland, which was originally intended to be a modern reinterpretation of blackletter, but received similarly broad use.

—— Shakescene (talk) 00:31, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

I happen to have been one of the editorial leads on Encyclopedia Africana, which was partly funded by Microsoft and published digitally as an Encarta product. The encylopedia was created in the late 1990s, not the early 1990s. I should know, as I helped to create it. I am unaware of any special graphic design done for project maps. I am certain that the maps for the Encarta product were done by Microsoft's in-house cartography division at the time, since spun off as part of Expedia, Inc.. I don't understand the basis for Shakescene's claim above about Africana. Marco polo (talk) 01:46, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

I wasn't trying to make any special claims or points about the Encyclopedia Africana, and I'm glad to have my chronology corrected. I remember an informal presentation at the Rhode Island School of Design by a graphic designer who said his (or her) team or firm had been asked to draw several hundred maps for the Encyclopedia, which had not yet been published, and showed several examples of their work. (Perhaps, in the end, Microsoft decided to use an in-house team of cartographers or designers instead or in addition.) The only reason I brought this up was the possibility that the example offered by KageTora looked as if it might have come from the Africana (although looking at the URL in edit mode that isn't visible on screen, I now see that's unlikely), and I was hypothesising that if the Encyclopedia were creating or commissioning its own maps, then perhaps it might also order a new typeface (at least for titles and display) to fit the new project. But the typeface is Lithos (originally commissioned in 1989 by Adobe Systems), and the map is likely not from the Encyclopedia Africana, so neither premise turned out true.—— Shakescene (talk) 06:18, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

And blowing up that map several times to readable size, I see that it's from the Outreach Program of the African Studies Center at Boston University, whose trustees claim the copyright. The other typeface used in the map is Gill Sans (a sans-serif font designed by Eric Gill). —— Shakescene (talk) 06:54, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

I actually like the font, which is one reason I was asking. Anyway, I've found a site here where it can be downloaded. Thanks for all your help, guys! --KageTora - (영호 (影虎)) (talk) 11:20, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

The Topic of Chick Culling

I've heard alot of disturbing things about this practice, something I was not made aware of until recently, and all centered around the eggs that I eat. Now, I'm not saying we should stop eating eggs, but I think we can enjoy an omlett or two without mindlessly killing newborn chicks! My question is this: is there anything being done about this? Where can I go to speak out against it and what can be done that'll make some kind of difference against this practice? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.202.139.241 (talk) 21:36, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

You could look into joining PETA, which opposes farm animals as well as research animals, seeing eye dogs, zoo animals, and pets. You could promote Veganism. You could start a shelter for the male chicks who are killed soon after hatching, and cherish millions of roosters who would greet you each morning. The hatcheries say they would be happy to give them away. Certainly they cannot lay eggs, and apparently they are less desirable as meat producers, since the meat is said to be stringy. You could go to work castrating them to make Capons, which are prized for their tenderness. Edison (talk) 23:52, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

If this is what it sounds like, maybe you'd like to know that hatcheries like Murray McMurray give away their male chicks with every order of chicks. If you order 25, they'll send you a free "mystery chick". Every time I've ordered, it's a male. Also, if you don't order a lot of 25 birds, they include males until your order has a multiple of 25 birds. That's how we once ended up with 18 roosters. Didn't make that mistake again! Dismas|^(talk) 02:13, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

Are you wanting to advocate somewhere that the percentage of males among the embryos should be lower, i.e. that almost all the chicks should hatch out as female? Then there would be no unwanted roosters to kill. If they are to be killed, then quicker is probably kinder. Edison (talk) 04:19, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

Being killed as chicks is pretty far down the list of cruelties that factory chickens endure -- debeaking, tiny cages, overcrowding, and unnatural conditions are lifelong torments inflicted on them. Just buy your eggs from a local small-scale farmer and they'll have come from chickens living many times more humanely than what you buy in the grocery store. Not perfect, but at least not a torture chamber. Better yet, raise your own; they're great fun! --Sean 15:30, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

Surely eggs sold for consumption are unfertilised?86.200.130.198 (talk) 15:27, 5 September 2009 (UTC)DT

Yes, they are. The eggs in question come from a totally different production line that are intended to be hatched to make the next generation of chickens. Since the male chicks are useless as egg layers - and not much good for meat - they are culled.

Indeed. Here is a video of a chick-dispatching machine. --Sean 15:45, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

The site also links to "Dixie Chicks," "Chicks wrestling in panties," and "Meet sexy girls in your area." Edison (talk) 04:11, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

I know all about chick culling. It's called the Miss USA Pageant. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 18:27, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

I have a quick question

I`am an aspiring screenwriter, writing a screenplay about a young female college student who the devil gets to paint,his interpretation of the bible. On the walls of Her house. My question is basically how do you say the words DEVIL`S HOUSE in Latin. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Yeats58 (talk • contribs) 22:23, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

Being a mere latinitaster, I will not attempt an answer. But I do have a quick response: If you titled one of your screenplays "Screenplay", would anyone have any idea what it's about? No? Then please do not tell us that your question is a question. Instead, use some brief words that give some clue to what the question is about. -- JackofOz (talk) 22:30, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

For clarity: Jack is complaining about the section title "I have a quick question". --Anon, 23:34 UTC, September 4, 2009. (Edited later for, uh, clarity.)

Villa diaboli. I think. --Saalstin (talk) 22:38, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

Maybe 'aedes diaboli'?Duomillia (talk) 23:23, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

There are several Latin words for house or home. "Domus" is perhaps the most basic one; I'd go with "domus diaboli". (The use of the letter U and lower-case letters is the usual modern practice; in ancient Rome they would have written "DOMVS DIABOLI"). By the way, there is a separate Language reference desk which would have been a good place for this question. --Anon, 23:34 UTC, September 4, 2009.

"Domus diaboli" is also a medieval way of referring to the physical world...in case you were wondering. Adam Bishop (talk) 03:01, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

I release the following screenplay under GFDL
Reel #1. Female student is sleeping uneasily, fade to the dream she is having. She stands in a field and a knight in shining armour on a white horse approaches. She smiles in welcome but her expression turns to horror as the horse turns to black and gallops towards her. She runs but the thundering hooves will run her down.... She wakes, it was a nightmare.
Reel #2. She gets out of bed and finds her house walls are daubed with horrific grafitti painted in blood. Who could have invaded her house and done this? She phones the police to report an intruder and they advise her to order new doorlocks, which she does.
Reel #3. The nightmare happens again but this time the black knight half opens his visor before she wakes up. More and worse grafitti appears on her walls. Now the girl is desperate.
Reel #4. She notices that the bloody grafitti is everywhere except where she keeps a photograph of a young man wearing a priest's collar. We learn (voice over) that this was her fiance who abandoned her to become a celibate priest.
Reel #5. She goes to bed and this time she prepares for the dream by putting the photograph of the priest under her pillow. The nightmare begins again. The black knight appears. This time she does not run and defies him to open his visor. When he open his visor he is revealed to be.... (If you aspire to be a screenwriter then completing this tale will be good exercise.) As the student cast Reese Witherspoon unless you can interest Meg Ryan. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 08:48, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

...revealed to be Marty Feldman.....--KageTora - (영호 (影虎)) (talk) 14:36, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

Meg Ryan as the student? Disbelief can only be suspended so far! Adam Bishop (talk) 07:39, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

Due to translations not always making sense - i would ask for various diffrent translations wording could be along the lines of Evil House - house of Evil- Devil's House of course being one of them. Going to google and asking for a Latin To English translation should give you a free site that you can experiment with the best wordingChromagnum (talk) 08:11, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

September 5

Women and Blood Clots

Why do women get blood clots when they have their period? Is there a reason behind it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.137.255.157 (talk) 03:17, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

Because blood clots to stop bleeding. Nothing to do with menstruation. In fact, clots are actively prevented against during menstruation. ~ Amory (user • talk • contribs) 03:25, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

What appears to be blood clots may be the endometrial tissue which is shed during menstruation. // BL \\ (talk) 03:58, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

Emergency Room Visit

Hypotheticaly if someone broke his wrist and went to the Emergency Room. After treatment, they wanted this person to sign this financial responsiblity form, where that person agrees to pay for treatment.

If that person did NOT sign that form, agreeing to take financial responsiblity are they legally obligated to pay? How will they be able to press this if that person refuses? I am assuming they need a signature or they dont have a contract or promise to pay, otherwise they would not need a signature at all. This is in the United States. XM (talk) 04:18, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

Do you suppose they might send a couple of guys out to re-break your wrist if you stiff them on the cost? Sorry, but no legal advice is available on the Wikipedia Reference Desk. Edison (talk) 04:30, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

What Edison said, and I've also answered at the Humanities desk, where this was cross-posted. Acroterion _(talk) 04:35, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

My non-legal guess is that the "contract" is necessary just to finalize the terms. They could probably still sue you for services rendered, it would just be messy and legal, rather than neat and organized. They prefer neat and organized, but you can be sure there are ways for them to recoup costs without you having signed something. There always are. --98.217.14.211 (talk) 14:37, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

Understand the US is considering changes. About time it seems. In France everyone has a green card the same size as a credit card. Show that and you are treated. Without it you still are treated, but the card makes it so easy. In due time you pay for the treatment, but then automatically recover 70%. (The remaining 30% can come back from a private insurer if you pay the premiums.) If you should refuse to pay you would be pursued vigorously through the courts. A whole family is responsible for any one member's medical debts.86.200.130.198 (talk) 15:26, 5 September 2009 (UTC)DT\)

Why are we still answering this? It's a request for legal advice. It has been removed often enough and replaced by XM that 3RR is likely involved. (That was a small joke.) // BL \\ (talk) 16:40, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

Did all those versions include the word "Hypothetically"? Dismas|^(talk) 21:08, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

No, only after it was removed once or twice. Vimescarrot (talk) 00:06, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

I see. Thank you. Dismas|^(talk) 06:11, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

It probably is highly dependent on local laws. However, consider that if you go to a restaurant and eat dinner, or pump gas at a gas station, or get a haircut at a barber shop, they don't need to make you sign anything prior to, during, or after to have you be legally responsible for paying for the goods and services. By accepting service you agree to pay them for it (because there is usually a law which says something to that effect), and can be held civilly, and often criminally liable for running off without payment. I would expect similar rules apply to emergency health services. The signing of the form is likely just to remind you that it isn't a free clinic, and of your responsibility to pay. -- 128.104.112.179 (talk) 17:14, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

I've often wondered about this kind of thing. If they made a contract beforehand, this could be disputed as it was signed under duress (ie. "f^#% my wrist, ow ow ow" "we'll only help you if you sign this form" "ok ok ok give me drugs!"I should be a script writer, I know), yea? But then there can't even be a verbal contract beforehand, so it really is a big risk they take treating you. Or are there special explicit rules for medical treatment?? Aaadddaaammm (talk) 16:13, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

I wonder how he would sign it if the wrist of his writing hand is broken? Reminds me of an old Cheech and Chong bit. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 21:39, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

I'm going to take this question at face value (i.e., a hypothetical question not asking for legal advice), because I don't read it as asking for advice whether to sign the document or not. In general, hospitals, physicians, and other service providers may be able to recover for the value of their services under the quantum meruit doctrine. However, a suit for services rendered on a quantum meruit basis is both more difficult to pursue and more difficult to defend, because it involves more uncertainty for both parties. There are many advantages for the hospital in having a specific agreement that it can enforce. John M Baker (talk) 23:44, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

How do people accidentally get toilet paper stuck in their pants?

An extremely weird question, but I can't figure it out. Somehow people accidentally manage to get toilet paper stuck in their pants as seen in this picture. However, I can't figure out how it is possible to do accidentally. Can someone elucidate? 66.57.240.8 (talk) 07:21, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

I think the most likely explanation is that her teenage grandson tucked it in there as a joke and then took the photo. Those sorts of photos are rarely accidental. However, older people do tend to pop a spare piece of tissue in their pants to mop up, and it's possible it got dislodged when she pulled them up.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 07:48, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

...to mop up?? --antilived^{T | C | G} 01:54, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

First two links on Incontinence. Have a nice night. ~ Amory (user • talk • contribs) 03:59, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

MBA

hey everyone !!!!!! I jus need some help with the information regarding MBA in india for my brother. He would like to do MBA but he has not secured good grades in his graduation, he just passed the graduation. If somebody can tell me that he can start with the MBA or not. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 145.228.59.66 (talk) 16:59, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

Every graduate school has its own standards. If you identify some of the possible schools, check to see if they have a web site on which you may find either the academic requirements or the name of some person to whom you could write for such information. // BL \\ (talk) 20:43, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

Try taking the GMAT test, if that is still going. If the score is not good enough at first, try again. My GMAT score on my first go was good enough to overcome a similar situation. 89.242.115.9 (talk) 20:50, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

What bird is this?

Some strange bird.

As I was coming home from work one day in late August, I saw this bird on the ground. It kept trying to fly inside the office building, not realising it couldn't fly through the glass in the windows, so it fell down of the ground. What bird is this? JIP | Talk 21:13, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

Black Woodpecker, innit. 213.122.51.152 (talk) 23:22, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

September 6

How To Clean a Soda Cozy

First off, by a soda cozy I mean the soft cloth-like holders that keep the soda cold and your hand normal. I have a cozy that is bright yellow, and the other day it had a can of Coke in it. The next day, despite no leak in the can or anything, there is now a dark brown stain along one side of the cozy and along the bottom, and overall it has a dimmer color to it. Does anyone know how to clean this? Washing machine, a good rinse, or is it ruined forever? Thank you. 134.126.192.188 (talk) 03:40, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

The good rinse in clean cold water sounds like the way to go. Those soft drink colours are water soluble, so enough water should sort the discolouration out. The next step would be to use a drop of detergent in your water if that did not work. The stubby holders I know here are made of foam rubber, which does not sound like what you have. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 04:58, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

free counselling websites

can any1 plz tell me some GOOD relationship counselling websites , which can offer counselling for free , without dodging people by FREE clicks and later mentioning $$$ — 04:29, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

Please tell us where you are (city and country). The answers for England, Scotland, Ireland, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Nigeria, India and each of the fifty United States will all be different. A general answer for the United States might be the Family Services or Catholic Family Services in your city or state, which serve those of all faiths and none (e.g. Family Service of Rhode Island); you might also get good leads or referrals from your local Jewish Federation, whether or not you're Jewish (e.g. Jewish Family Services of Rhode Island), or your local United Way. Unfortunately, many of these will be closed until Tuesday because of Labor Day in the U.S. and Canada. —— Shakescene (talk) 06:04, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

I AM LOCATED IN pakistan. so plz suggest online counselling,(if) available in pakistan. thanks very much for ur answer...

I thought Pakistan used rupees not dollars, anyway have you tried a google search with 'pakistan counselling'? Dmcq (talk) 23:30, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

So are you looking for someone to advise or counsel you alone, or both you and the other person(s) in this relationship together? —— Shakescene (talk) 00:12, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

I would strongly suggest that you do not do online counselling. Counselling is very largely about communication: from you to the counsellor, from the counsellor to you, and from you to others. Doing counselling on the web will hugely cut down the effectiveness of communication, by losing all the non-verbal aspects of communication. Frankly I doubt that any good counsellor will do counselling on the web; which means that if you find someone who will you may well not be getting good service.

You may well be better off finding a non-professional who you can talk to in person. Are you involved in a religious community? Do you know an older, or just wise, person that you trust? DJ Clayworth (talk) 15:30, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Hanoi Hannah audio

Where might I find audio of radio broadcasts by Hanoi Hannah, Duong Thu Huong? In particular her claims of North Vietnam winning the war because the North believed logic to be superior to God as the basis for any political, social or economi system. -- Taxa (talk) 13:46, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

Since you're a registered editor here, I presume you've already explored the external links at Hanoi Hannah, the Wikipedia article. —— Shakescene (talk) 21:55, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

Since my last look the article has been improved with one external reference but none, alas, lead to an audio or text record of that particular claim. -- Taxa (talk) 04:05, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

A few here and here, though I didn't listen for content. --Sean 16:35, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Thanks. wonder how you found the first one - earth station??? The second one I know about but neither have the particualr discussion about God vs. logic I'm looking for. Thanks anyway. -- Taxa (talk) 19:46, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

It was the first hit for "hanoi.hannah audio". Interestingly/sadly, "hannoi.hannah filetype:mp3" failed, presumably due to Google trying to avoid becoming as convenient as early Napster. --Sean 20:38, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

The first radio tower icon goes to the one about GI Joe being poorly informed while others make big profit but nothing about God vs logic.... -- Taxa (talk) 21:37, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Help, please

I really need help on this. i can't figure it out.

Strange TV colours

We turned on the TV this evening (it had been off for an hour or two) and all the colours are wrong. It seems that red is displaying as green, green as blue and blue as red. It is a fairly old CRT TV. All the cables seem to be in properly, there are no settings on the TV that seem to help and giving it a good slap didn't help either! Any ideas of what could be causing this and/or how to fix it? Thanks. --Tango (talk) 21:12, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

If anyone's been near it witgh a powerful magnet (even a powerful bar magnet) that might have messed it up. Prokhorovka (talk) 21:15, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

No, I can't think how that could have happened. --Tango (talk) 21:32, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

Prokhorovka is suspecting that your screen needs degaussing - with most TV's (even fairly old ones) you can degauss them by turning them on and off again a few times - yet older ones may have a 'Degauss' button you can push to do the job - museum-piece TV's need you to use a degaussing coil to solve the problem. However, the symptoms you describe are not right for this kind of problem and degaussing it isn't going to fix it. SteveBaker (talk) 15:17, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

Is the signal coming over a Péritel/SCART connection, or does the problem happen even with TV over the RF input? -- Finlay McWalter • Talk 22:01, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

It happens on both SCART and RF. --Tango (talk) 22:11, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

Usual trick is to thump it hard on the top corner of the right hand side.--88.109.132.126 (talk) 08

12, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

Actually - at this point - thumping it in various places is more likely to fix it than anything else I could think of! Old TV's are prone to getting bad solder joints and whacking them does sometimes restore the bad connection for a while. However, I'm skeptical of this because the usual symptom that can be cured this way is when the thing turns on OK then goes wrong as it heats up - or starts off wrong and fixes itself as it warms up. But you have nothing to lose! SteveBaker (talk) 15:17, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

Is this a NTSC or PAL or digital from free to air? Is there a set top box?Graeme Bartlett (talk) 13:03, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

Tango said the word "SCART" - so it's gonna be PAL (or maybe SECAM). SteveBaker (talk) 15:17, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

So the hue is "rotated". In analog TV that is basically determined by the phase of the color signal relative to the color burst at the start of every scan-line. Older NTSC TV's had a tendancy to 'drift' in hue and hence often have a hue adjustment control someplace (NTSC: "Never Twice Same Color") - and playing with that might be able to fix it for you. But PAL TV's have a more sophisticated way to do this. They alternate the way the hue signal is decoded on consecutive scanlines so that if the circuitry goes out of adjustment - one scanline will drifted one way, the next scanline will drift the other - and so small errors tend to cancel out overall. That means that there is no need for a hue adjustment control and most PAL TV's don't have them. Since you're talking about SCART - I deduce that you probably don't have NTSC but rather PAL (or just possibly SECAM). Hence no hue control - hence no easy way to fix your problem. Also, if it's a PAL/SECAM system, the problem must be happening after the hue is decoded from the broadcast stream - which probably means that other inputs to the TV won't work either. If your analog TV is being driven by a digital decoder box and has a component video or SCART interface - then I suppose it's just possible that symptoms kinda similar to the ones you're describing could come about from a bad or loose connector - but not if you are getting your TV broadcast from an antenna or via a VCR or DVD player with composite video connections.

I suppose - if you have an old VCR where you can watch TV via the VCR and change channels using the VCR's channel changer buttons - you might manage to bypass the TV's decoders that way and keep the thing running - but not many VCR's work like that - and the logic above suggests that this won't work either. However, it's worth a try I suppose.

That's all just a complicated way to say that your TV is broken and it's not worth mending...still, that's the excuse you need to get that 70" 1080p Plasma screen you've been wanting all those years.

SteveBaker (talk) 15:10, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

Thank everyone for your suggestions. I turned it on today and it is working fine again (I had tried turning it off and on again before)! If anyone is interested (I'd still like to know how it happened out of idle curiosity - and in case it happens again) it is a PAL TV with a Freeview box (terrestrial digital set-top box). There is a coaxial cable from an aerial to the VCR, from the VCR to the digibox and from the digibox to the TV, there is also a SCART lead from the digibox to the TV. As I understand it, the SCART is used when watching digital and the coaxial is used when watching analogue. The colour was broken on both. --Tango (talk) 16:30, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

The colour error described sounds like faulty PAL phasing. If so, changing the channel is likely to correct it. The cause can be a subcarrier 4.43..MHz oscillator coil that needs retuning. There is usually a service procedure to do this using a voltmeter. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 20:35, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

Changing the channel didn't help - the TV guide display from the digibox and the channel number in the corner from the TV were in the wrong colours. It certainly wasn't a problem with the signal. --Tango (talk) 00:14, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

September 7

Project on Happiness

I found a website a while ago of a project about emotions. A guy handed out cards with a human figure on it and the instructions were for each emotion to draw on it how you felt, and another where you would draw a single dot. The cards of hundreds of people were layered to and put on his website. Has anyone else come across this and could direct me to it again? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.130.237.183 (talk) 03:25, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

Which leads me to ask, is there a place, apart from here, where one may search for lost websites? "I saw this website about ... but I can't remember where the heck it was!" BrainyBabe (talk) 17:00, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

Go to http://www.archive.org - "The Internet Archive" - enter the address of the web site into the "Way back machine" text box and hit "Take me back" it'll take you to a list of dates when that web site was archived - click on one of those links to get taken to a page that shows how that page looked on that date. Sadly, you don't have a decent search engine to search them - so unless you know the URL, you're unlikely to find what you need. SteveBaker (talk) 03:16, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Lost clothes at Waterworks Corner on the A406, London, UK

Today, 7-09-09 I noticed a large quantity of lost clothes on the roundabout known as Waterworks Corner on the A40, London, UK.

I wonder if anyone knows where they came from or who they belonged to. Alright, it's not the Marie Celeste, but I'm interested in any answers. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.115.82.97 (talk) 15:42, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

I don't know the road in question but I saw an incident on a motorway when a suitcase came off a roofrack leaving lost clothes all over the motorway. The case broke to pieces which fortunatley ended up against the central reservation. This is of course just speculation on what may have happened. -- Q Chris (talk) 16:09, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

For the benefit of those in foreign parts, this is on the North Circular, near south end of M11. Q Chris's explanation sounds probable. Gandalf61 (talk) 16:26, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

In the countryside earlier this year, I think, I saw clothes strewn along the verge of the road, actaually mostly in little piles of two or three items. 89.242.115.9 (talk) 20:53, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the comments Juliankaufman (talk) 21:22, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

Why do Dutch Antilleans have girls' names as surnames?

Examples include:

• Vurnon Anita
• Javier Martina
• Angelo Martha
• Albert Cristina
• Charlton Rafaela

I have always wondered this but never known the answer. Spiderone 16:33, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

I don't know, but the Maltese do it a bit too: Barbara and Sylvia are two examples of Maltese surnames. -- JackofOz (talk) 19:54, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

This is truly bizarre. Does anyone know if there is perhaps a better place to ask something like this? Spiderone 20:13, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

It could be that they are from a history where the naming convention is Matronymic. ny156uk (talk) 20:26, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

Jean de Florette suggests that this is the naming convention in rural Provence. AlexTiefling (talk) 20:55, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

the one netherlander i know, explained the reason his 'middle name' (as he termed it) was maria, was due to his catholic faith, and it was common for males of his generation and faith to have this name... I, of course from then on in, have gleefully used this as his given name (and rudy, being rudy has gleefully to me to f*** off)  :) Perry-mankster (talk) 21:14, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

That happens in German and French too. (Like Klaus Maria Brandauer or Jean Marie Le Pen.) Adam Bishop (talk) 02:37, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Even in the anglosphere, it's not unknown for men to have unequivocally female middle names, particularly Mary among Irish Roman Catholics - see Archbishop Patrick Mary O'Donnell. -- JackofOz (talk) 08:28, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

As for Americans, two words: Hanna-Barbera. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 11:47, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Only one of those counts as a girl's name. -- JackofOz (talk) 21:28, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

poem that depends on punctuation

I debated putting this on the Language Desk, since it is about punctuation, or Humanities, for literature, but thought this the best bet. I am looking for a particular poem I read some time ago. (Of course, if our collective erudition turns up something similar, that would be fantastic too.) The one I am thinking of fits on one or two pages, and has short lines. I can't remember any of the phrasing precisely, but the gist of it was a long list of items the writer had seen, and the meaning appeared nonsensical until the punctuation (by line break and semi-colon) is reversed. Something like:

I saw a horse;

Running free there was a chimney;

Belching smoke there was a child;

Skipping rope there was a fish....

None of those are the real phrases, but is that enough to get the idea? I am also aware of the "Dear John" letter, the interpretation of which switches depending on punctuation. Any others? BrainyBabe (talk) 16:58, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

There's a classic example, which I can dig out in a while, in Peter Quince's prologue to the play-within-a-play (The Most Lamentable Comedy and Most Cruel Death of Pyramus and Thisbe) in the last Act of Shakespeare's A Midsummer-Night's Dream with misconnected lines like "All for your delight/We are not here". —— Shakescene (talk) 19:29, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

'If we offend, it is with our good will.
That you should think, we come not to offend,
But with good will. To show our simple skill,
That is the true beginning of our end.
Consider then, we come but in despite.
We do not come, as minding to content you,
Our true intent is. All for your delight
We are not here. That you should here repent you,
The actors are at hand: and, by their show,
You shall know all that you are like to know,'

Algebraist 19:34, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

I don't know whether there's a particular name for this kind of poem, but the most famous example (and perhaps the one you're thinking of) is the following (no. 398 in the Opies' Oxford Dictionary of Nursery Rhymes);

I saw a peacock with a fiery tail
I saw a blazing comet drop down hail
I saw a cloud with ivy circled round
I saw a sturdy oak creep on the ground
I saw a pismire swallow up a whale
I saw a raging sea brim full of ale
I saw a Venice glass sixteen foot deep
I saw a well full of men's tears that weep
I saw their eyes all in a flame of fire
I saw a house as big as the moon and higher
I saw the sun even in the midst of night
I saw the man that saw this wondrous sight.

It's fairly widely reproduced on the Web, as you'll find if you Google for the first line. Deor (talk) 20:45, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

Bingo, Deor, that's it! I knew there was fire in there somewhere, and animals. Any more would be very welcome, as ever. And User:Algebraist, how would you suggest re-punctuating Peter Quince? And shall we attempt to come up with a name for this trick of writing, if no one else has (which is unlikely)? BrainyBabe (talk) 08:54, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Needless to say, four centuries' worth of actors playing Peter Quince and their directors have had to ponder how to deliver his speech, and where to put the breaks (stops). E.g. "All for your delight we are not here. That you should here you repent you the actors are at hand." —— Shakescene (talk) 23:01, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

How to "correct" a misleading Google result

Again, I have no better idea of where to place this. It's not really technical enough for the Computer Desk. Just one of those miscellaneous days.

I have been following the story of Lubna Hussein, the Sudanese journalist convicted today of outraging public decency by wearing trousers. If you enter her name in Google, one of the first results is a Daily Mail article dated 14 August. The headline as it appears on Google is "UN Christian woman facing 40 lashes for wearing trousers is barred from leaving Sudan". However, when you go to the article, the URL contains the word "Christian" but the headline and article text contain no reference to her religion. (In fact, she is a Muslim, as she makes clear in one of her first interviews.) Perhaps the error occured because a Daily Mail journalist assumed she was a Christian. Perhaps the first publication, in print and online, contained that error. Perhaps, on this being pointed out, the editors corrected the text and visible headline. My question is, why does the error persist in the URL and title visible in the Google search, and can it be amended? BrainyBabe (talk) 17:21, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

Google is just giving the html title of the Mail article. When the Mail fix their title, Google will (after a period of up to a few days) update their cached version of said title. Algebraist 17:39, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

The same thing happens with Wikipedia articles. You may notice that the little blurb on Google which links to a Wikipedia article may not match what's exactly here at the time, but eventually Google catches up when they re-crawl. Who then was a gentleman? (talk) 17:42, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

OK, so then, how does one persuade the Daily Mail to change the title? Specifically , who does one write to? BrainyBabe (talk) 18:21, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

Looking at their contact link, technical@dailymailonline.co.uk and editorial@dailymailonline.co.uk seem the best options. Algebraist 18:26, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

(ec)There's a comment box on that page. I assume someone from the Mail reads comments prior to putting them up, so that may be one method to bring it to their attention. (Even if not, it would help clarify the story for future readers.) A more direct method may be to click on the "contact us" link at the very bottom of the page, which lists a technical contact address for MailOnline of "technical@dailymailonline.co.uk". Alternatively, there is a "Feedback" link on the top of the page which gives you a web form. If none of those options were available to you, you can usually reach the person in charge of a website by sending an email to the "webmaster" address, e.g. something like "webmaster@dailymail.co.uk" in this case. -- 128.104.112.179 (talk) 18:31, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

And if contacting them directly gives you no joy, contact the Press Complaints Commission. Nanonic (talk) 19:42, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

• Guys, the Daily Hate-Mail aren't noted for their accuracy or fact-based-only reporting. They are the UK equivalent of Fox News. -- EA Swyer ^Talk _{Contributions} 20:51, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

As others have pointed out - Google re-crawls things fairly often - and in this case, it's already happened. The Daily Mail evidently fixed their article - and Google re-crawled it. If you rerun your search, you'll see that the word "Christian" appears nowhere in their search results. SteveBaker (talk) 03:07, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Neither the Mail article's title nor the google description have changed that I can see. The only change is that the Mail has slipped to 11th in the results. Algebraist 03:13, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

The article is changed. But the HTML <TITLE> tag has not been changed. It still carries the original headline. That is what Google bases the text of its links on. APL (talk) 22:22, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

It appears to me, as a user of Google News, that when Google first visits an article they cache the headline and initial text as it was at that time, and if the news provider later updates the article at the same URL, Google never sees it. I think they don't care much because they assume there will be a newer article that will soon take precedence in search results. But this is not something I've actually seen documented anywhere. --Anonymous, 03:26 UTC, September 8, 2009.

That may be the case, but since we're not dealing with Google News, or with a miscached headline, it's of no relevance here. Algebraist 03:54, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Thank you all. (OP). BrainyBabe (talk) 16:21, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Of course we're dealing with Google News -- regular Google search results include Google News hits these days. What's described above fits perfectly with the scenario that the original news source got the headline wrong and then corrected it in place. --Anon, 22:25 UTC, September 8, 2009.

Press responsibility for the accuracy of information?

I was reluctant to merge this with the previous question, so I am formatting this as a new one. Are there any valid, legal channels or means to ensure that what we read on the news is actually what happened? I do not mean the cases when the erroneous reporting constitutes libel or deliberate political bias. I mean when the reporting is just plain wrong. Earlier today CNN reported on the discovery of a new Mallomys species, here, saying:

Initial examinations of the rat... suggest that it belongs to the Mallomys -- a genus of rodents in the muridae family which are the largest living species of rodent.

Disregarding the bad grammar (genus ... are the larges living species - WTH?), it is fundamentally not true that Mallomys rats are the largest rodents. Capybaras, maras, porcupines, beavers, and marmots are all significantly larger. Can anything be done about false reporting, at all? --Dr Dima (talk) 19:27, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

I haven't visited the CNN website in a while, but I'm almost certain that it has a list of contacts at CNN, including editors, webmasters and very, very likely an ombudsman or "public editor". Most newspapers have a box, often on page 2, that provides corrections, clarifications and amplifications. This isn't practical or useful for broadcasting or video, but the web version of a story can very easily be corrected, sometimes explicitly, sometimes silently. Many news sites will also add readers' comments (positive or negative) to individual stories. While it's not feasible to recreate a whole location shot after it's been broadcast just to correct the script, any subsequent version of that story could incorporate a correction. —— Shakescene (talk) 20:13, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

You can complain to the news organization and they can issue a correction (if they choose to). Other than that, no, nothing, other than frequent other news organizations. CNN and other "quick cable news" agencies seem to do a bare minimum of fact checking. There are no consequences unless it is libel, generally. My experience is that more high-brow sources (NPR, the New Yorker) go to extreme, sometimes ridiculous lengths for fact-checking. In any case, CNN and others' errors are far worse than rat species... --98.217.14.211 (talk) 20:15, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

It is unrealistic to expect any legal remedy for such a reporting error. For that one would have to prove there was negligence that caused one real harm, for example if you had paid good money for a Rodent Encyclopedia. The CNN article does mention that capybaras are larger. It is apparent that an unnamed CNN reporter is quoting from a BBC team (did BBC report wrongly?) and an expert at Oxford University. Normally journalists clear their articles with people they quote so the main possibilities are:

• The OP is wrong.
• The CNN reporter failed to clear their whole article with the expert.
• The expert is wrong. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 20:18, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

¶ It looks to me more like either misunderstanding or bad phrasing by the reporter, who might have been trying to say that Muridae (not Mallomys) are the largest group (I leave the exact Linnaean taxonomy to others) of rodents, in fact Wikipedia says they're the largest family of mammals. To be redundant, the reporter probably didn't mean to say that Mallomys are the largest rodents, but that Muridae are. Work on a deadline every minute and you'll make mistakes in arranging your words without ambiguity. —— Shakescene (talk) 20:32, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

Oh, OK, that's what the reporter was trying to say. That makes more sense. Muridae is indeed a valid family in Rodentia:Myomorpha, and indeed the largest extant family of mammals. Regarding the animal length and weight, Mallomys rats are quite large, even by the rat standards; but not the largest. The (somewhat dubious) honor of being the largest rat may go either to Cricetomys or to Thryonomys rats; the latter are now placed in the family of their own, though. Phloeomys rats are also quite large. Anyway, thanks everyone for your input! --Dr Dima (talk) 21:17, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

Unless the journalist is slandering or commiting a crime such as libel, it is probably not possible to force them to retract incorrect publications. However, consistent publication of incorrect material will eventually be noticed by enough people, and the organization's overall credibility will fail. However, if there is no alternative means of communication except through the mass media, (sort of de-facto censorship by sheer market share), the level of complaint may not reach critical mass to really invalidate the journalist's credibility. Nimur (talk) 22:27, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

While semi OT, since the issue has came up... In NZ various codes of conduct, which most media organisations adhere to require balance, fairness and accuracy in reporting. [2] [3]. There are various semi-independent organisations which deal with complaints and may require an apology and correction. Media organisations also of course are therefore expected to have a way to deal with such complaints themselves and I doubt you'd need to go to the BSA or Press Council over something like that for something like which rat is the largest. They tend to deal with controversial things. [4] [5] have rulings if anyone is interested Nil Einne (talk) 18:24, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

I have to say - over the years, I've been involved in many stories that made it into the newspaper and onto TV - in not one single one of those were the facts reported 100% correctly. Unless I'm extraordinarily unlucky - that means that essentially all newspaper and TV reporting is likely to be subtly incorrect. Only very significant errors are ever likely to be corrected. SteveBaker (talk) 03:01, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

My similar though more limited (UK-based) experience agrees completely with Steve's. I remember in particular one local newspaper item following a reporter's visit to the amateur astronomy club observatory I used to help run, which worked out to something approaching one factual error per line: most or all of them would have been obvious to anyone who had read any child/entry-level Astronomy text such as The Observer's Book of Astronomy.

The bottom line is that no (UK) general newspaper regards science as "important", few if any employ full-time reporters or editors with any scientific knowledge, let alone training (note that even completely accurate reporter's copy can be FUBAR-ed by a subeditor), and none can be routinely trusted to get any scientific details correct: nationally circulated newspapers at least have a lower error rate than the local press, which is generally appalling.

This may in part be because the Press has traditionally regarded itself as providing an ephemeral product ("Today's news is tomorrow's chip-wrapping."), and in part because its personnel has generally been drawn from the "wrong" half of C. P. Snow's famous "Two Cultures" dichotomy: all of the foregoing applies equally to the even more ephemeral broadcast media.

One should, therefore, rely on items from general publications/broadcasters as no more that alerts to the existence of a potentially interesting scientific story, and refer to more specialised science-oriented publications for more (though not necessarily totally) trustworthy information. 87.81.230.195 (talk) 13:41, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

¶ OK, I did visit the CNN web site, and at the time, the Giant Rat of Papua † was its fourth most-viewed story. When I clicked it, the sentence that (depending on how you read it) is either wrong, misleading or ambiguous was still there. However by following the links from the "Site Map", I found a form that Dr Dima can fill out to point out the error to CNN. So, although I think he was posing a more-general question, there is a specific way to address this specific source of confusion or error. Whether CNN will correct it (by issuing a clarification or by recasting the sentence) while the story is still fresh and popular, I don't know. It would be interesting to hear from Dr Dima (or anyone else moved to fill out this form) what, if anything, happened next.

† Cf. The Giant Rat of Sumatra, a celebrated but undocumented (apocryphal) case of Sherlock Holmes' "for which," he told Dr Watson, "the world is not yet prepared", although several writers after Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, including The Firesign Theatre, have accosted that hitherto-unprepared world with their own asserted accounts. —— Shakescene (talk) 04:57, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

I don't think the "are" refers to genus, it refers to "rodents". And BTW, Shake, when I first read the blurb about the new rodent, The Giant Rat of Sumatra was the first thing to occurred to me, too. Too bad this thing is from New Guinea.  :) Who then was a gentleman? (talk) 05:44, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

It is illegal (in the Netherlands at least) for a company to have a name for itself or one of its products that is in some way misleading. If misleading info is illegal, then certainly false information from a company that is a professional provider of information (ie it's its core business) should be illegal too. It would make sense to fine them according to the 'damage' the false (or misleading) info might cause. Of course, they can never be absolutely sure about anything (no-one can ever be), but it will certainly help. Of course, this only goes for professionals, not for, say, Wikipedia. :) DirkvdM (talk) 13:27, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

September 8

Crinoline Dresses

In the days when ladies wore Crinoline, how did they relieve themselves? I mean did they have large (wide) toilets or did they have to take off the skirts before entering the WC? How did this work? Puzzled.

Versailles had no toilets, so those suave French aristocrats went in the stairways and other out-of-the-way places. No wonder there was a revolution. Clarityfiend (talk) 01:45, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

As I understand it, if you look up the history of underwear, the bloomers underneath were crotchless (this is the mid-19th century, well past the Versailles era), so you didn't have to take off the skirt (that was difficult, even when you were used to it). The toilet itself was mostly a bowl, so you could crouch over it. The room itself would be larger than a modern bathroom, as I'm led to believe, if there indeed was a room dedicated to it. In many places it would be behind a screen or just in an out of the way place in the room. Steewi (talk) 02:05, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

The answer to Crinoline is Chamber pot. And a servant willing to hold it in place during the deed. --Jayron32 02:58, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Actually the "pots" were oval, more like sauce-boats in shape, and used by holding them in place under the skirt, without sitting down. I saw some in an antiques TV show but I can't remember their name. - KoolerStill (talk) 14:31, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Versailles is an amazing place - the combination of such opulence and astounding luxury - combined with being a place where no modern person could stand to live - crude in so many ways. If you have the opportunity to take the tour - you definitely should, it's astounding. SteveBaker (talk) 02:58, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

A charming crinoline in motion. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 11:00, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Music royalties

I was reading about music royalties and couldn't understand exactly how they apply (or rather, are applied) -- I mean, if a hired band with hired singers plays music and sing they lyrics of songs they did not write/arrange, are the original composers/lyricists actually entitled to compensation, and it's just that this rule is consistently and continually broken? DRosenbach ^{(Talk | Contribs)} 01:54, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Pretty much, yes. Every time a bunch of kids sing "Happy Birthday To You" - they are (perhaps) infringing the copyright of Warner/Chappell Music - and could, possibly, be sued for doing so. As you say, it's hard to enforce - and rarely is - but that doesn't make it legal. Worse still - there are MANY copyrights that could be being infringed - the lyrics and the music may have separate copyrights, the printed music - another, any recordings of performances, another - and the publication of those recordings, yet another! It's a minefield. SteveBaker (talk) 02:49, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Re Happy Birthday To You: in which jurisdiction, and are you sure? Where I live the copyright law has the concept of private performance, for which no fees are needed. A private party is different from a performance down at the pub where anyone can come. 62.78.198.48 (talk) 08:27, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

For professionals, it is relatively easy to get the rights to perform something, because there are organizations devoted to managing these sorts of rights (e.g. BMI and ASCAP). Even high school band directors go through them before performing something copyrighted. It's not that hard to enforce—you only bother to sue those people who do it for money or are important enough to warrant (and the fines are substantial). Again, it is very, very standard to secure the rights to perform something before you perform it, if you are covering copyrighted work and are a professional. --98.217.14.211 (talk) 02:52, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Through work I had to deal with this kind of thing in Germany - their association dealing with this is named GEMA, which stands for Gesellschaft für musikalische Aufführungs- und mechanische Vervielfältigungsrechte (something like Society for musical performance rights and mechanical reproduction rights). We were organising a congress-type event for 800+ people - they required us to fill in a two- or three-page form and send it in, they'd check whether we had calculated the royalties due correctly - and that was it. These sums were in the thousands of Euros, but it wasn't really very difficult (they gave very detailed and precise instructions on how to calculate the due amounts - after all, 's Germany). --Ouro (blah blah) 05:02, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

A private, non-professional rendering of "Happy Birthday" wouldn't be subject to a lawsuit. In public theoretically could be a different story. Maybe someone can explain how royalties are handled for songs that are in a jukebox. I bring that up because Eddy Howard's rendition of "Happy Birthday" used to be carried in jukeboxes, and obviously could be played whenever someone in the given tavern or restaurant was celebrating a birthday. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 11:44, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

The following does not constitute legal advice, but in the U.S., publishers sell arrangements to concert bands with the right to perform them publicly when the performance is free (no admission). If tickets are sold, extra payment is technically required. There are additional rules for making a recording of it or using it in a movie soundtrack. Edison (talk) 16:25, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

What about karaoke? Do the people who drag karaoke machines with them from bar to bar pay royalties? Do they have to keep track of which songs are actually performed, or do they just pay blanket fees to ASCAP:? Who then was a gentleman? (talk) 19:03, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

OP here -- my initial question was referring to wedding bands that play music for fees in the USA. I was very surprised to read this, as I had never thought about it. The wide array of Jewish music is played at every Jewish wedding I attend and it's rare to have an actual music artist be the singer at the wedding (and therefor be exempt for singing his own songs, perhaps with permission from the composer that wrote the music). Wow...a real eye-opener! DRosenbach ^{(Talk | Contribs)} 19:41, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Smoking Nicotine

Tried all the possible ways to quit smoking but not beyond a week as i realise the level of nicotine rising in my checst causing congestion, is there any home or other remedy to decreasing the level of nicotine from the body,i know for sure to quit is the best but how to reduce the level?anyone —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.122.36.6 (talk) 06:44, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Reduce how much you smoke over a period of time? Going from a daily dose of 20 - 0 is a big drop, but if you try lowering your intake from say 20 - 15 for a week, then 15 - 10 and so on you may find that easier. 08:21, 8 September 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.221.133.226 (talk)

You question isn't entirely clear? Are you asking if it's possible to reduce your nicotine levels while still smoking the same amount? APL (talk) 12:55, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

This question appears to be a request for medical advice. It is against our guidelines to provide medical advice. You might like to clarify your question. You may also find it helpful to read the article: Nicotine, and form your own opinion from the information there. For actual diagnosis and advice specific to your condition, you need to see a physician. Responses containing prescriptive information or medical advice should be removed and an explanatory note posted on the discussion page. If you feel a response has been removed in error, please discuss it before restoring it.

. Nimur (talk) 15:22, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Although you can only get diagnosis and treatment from a doctor, there are reputable websites which can give information and general advice, such as healthy-india.org and smokefree.nhs.uk AlmostReadytoFly (talk) 08:38, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

ISBN #'s on books

I am buying books for my son who is in college. The math book he needs is ISBN 9780073311821. I bought one on ebay and on the receipt it says the ISBN of that book is ISBN 9780072451078. The book looks identical but was published in different years. 2004 & 2007. Can my son use the book I bought or do I have to buy another one? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.156.105.208 (talk) 09:12, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

When you say that the books look identical, are you just referring to the covers or the actual content? The ISBN is no help, you have to look at the edition information at the beginning of the book. I'm unclear as to whether you've bought the 2004 or the 2007 one off of eBay, though. It's also not clear to me whether the one your son needs is the 2004 or the 2007. If you've got the 2007 one then you should be fine since that is obviously the most recent edition. If you've got the 2004 one then there might have been some changes between that one and the 2007 one that your son might need for his course. Not that maths is a particularly fast-moving discipline, especially at college level. --Richardrj ^{talk email} 09:29, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

I've taken the liberty of linking the second ISBN code you cited. Both books are 840 pages in length, and I tend to think the substantive content will be the same. However the more recent book comes with something called "MathZone" which I understand to be an online resource providing tests & exercises which the user can choose to take part in. (Compare [6] and [7]). Unless he specifically needs access to MathZone, then the book will be fine. Check with him? --Tagishsimon (talk) 10:00, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

I have a kid in college. I know where you're coming from. The problem is that the people who teach the courses are very often the same people who write the text books. Both they, and the publishers, are very interested in getting kids to buy new books rather than going to the college used-book store and buying copies from the previous year's students. Hence the books get updated FAR more often than could possibly be justified. However, one of the things they often change with new revisions is the example problems, tests and exercises. This means that if the tutor says "I want everyone to do the examples at the end of chapter 4 for homework" - then an outdated book will result in your kid doing the wrong problems and getting a zero on the work. This annoys me more than I have words to express that annoyance! The answer is for he/she to find someone with the "correct" version of the book and to make sure that the example problems are the same whenever homework is given based on the book. SteveBaker (talk) 11:34, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

As Steve says, the "old" book probably has different page numbers, homework assignments, etc. It's a definite racket. But there's no easy way out of it, other than elaborate "find the differences and make a copy of them" games. --98.217.14.211 (talk) 13:56, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

It sort of depends on the teacher and the book in question. Many college teachers do not grade or collect homework. In that case the old book will be fine. Even if the homework problems have different answers, they will still cover the same information, so it should still be good practice. If the teacher uses an online homework program like WebAssign (unsolicited plug... From a teachers POV, that is the most awesome utility ever!), then it also won't be a problem, since in that case you'll be using the text mostly as a reference, and that should be fine. Thirdly, check the book against a newer edition. Some books are actually just different printings of the same edition, so you may not see any changes, besides, say, correcting spelling mistakes from the earlier edition and stuff like that. Lastly, if your child is unlucky enough that the actual edition matters for getting the homework turned in and graded, he may be able to get the correct problems from a friend. See that he gets into a good study group, and he should be able to copy the problems (not the answers; that would be counter productive!) from someone else. As an aside, I agree totally with SteveBaker. The textbook industry is a HUGE racket; especially at the college level. The kinds of changes they make to a book from edition to edition are largely cosmetic, and serve no purpose except to force students to purchase new, expensive books all the time. I work now as a private chemistry tutor, and the general chemistry texts I use (Brown, LeMay, and Bursten or Zumdahl and Zumdahl) are both about 4-5 editions older than the current round, and the changes are insignificant; other than the answers to the homework problems (same problems, different numbers! Nice trick, huh!) and the page numbers and things like that, they are largely identical. --Jayron32 14:37, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

At this point, we should put in a plug for WikiBooks, Wikiversity and the Californian initiative to get free digital textbooks. With the cost of an entire low-end laptop scraping the cost of a SINGLE textbook and things like the Kindle eliminating all of the old excuses about the difficulty of reading stuff off the screen, making margin notes, etc...the paper textbook makers had better wake up and fix their evil ways - or they'll find themselves as obsolete as paper encyclopedias, paper dictionaries and (increasingly) newspapers. SteveBaker (talk) 15:15, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

It is possible that a math book author would write new problems for a new edition, but I have seen counterexamples, that the same problem persist, and they only add fluff to make the old edition obsolete, to avoid resale of old copies. It takes time and effort to write and check the homework problems. I once checked an engineering textbook from the 7th edition back to the first edition, and found the problems almost unchanged. I then compared the problems to those in the books cited as references, and found that in the first edition many were cribbed with minor changes from someone else's older textbooks. The older book's writers might find it hard to sue for copyright infringement for individual problems, because they probably cribbed them from yet older books. Edison (talk) 16:18, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Well, if it's a maths textbook, it's very difficult to demonstrate copyright infringement with problem questions unless they are exact, word-for-word copies. See University of London Press Ltd v University Tutorial Press Ltd [1916].

I'm making an unqualified presumption that English IP law is applicable in your jurisdiction. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 01:45, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Waking up

As of now it takes me 30 mins (exaggeration) to wake up in the morning. What are some tips to help me to wake up faster? Tips 1. Alarm clock Accdude92 (talk) (sign) 13:10, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

• 2. Turn a light on as soon as you wake-up (I find it much easier to wake up in a well-lit room than a dark room
• 3. Have a drink of water
• 4. Clear the 'sleep' from your eyes
• 5. Find a partner that's good at making you wake up (my partner is particularly)
• 6. Have a reason to get up (my working 'flexible' hours makes it hard to get up but if i have a meeting I have to get in for I always get up in time)

13:15, 8 September 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.221.133.226 (talk)

Any more?Accdude92 (talk) (sign) 13:31, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Have an alarm clock programmed to yell "FIRE!" If that doesn't get you out of bed in a hurry, nothing will. Here's another tip I just learned recently. It seems that sleep cycles have some impact on our ability to wake up easily, especially when "forced" to wake up. Try setting your alarm clock such that your sleep time turns out to be something-and-a-half, rather than a full hour. P.S. That's not medical advice, that's just personal experience. Your results may vary. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 13:40, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

I use the alarm on my mobile phone and leave the phone just outside the room door so it's close enough to drive me crazy and far enough that I'm forced out of bed to put it off. N.B. I live alone and the phone seldom rings at night. Zain Ebrahim (talk) 13:48, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Any more?Accdude92 (talk) (sign) 13:58, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

I've found that cutting my caffeine to basically nothing has helped quite a lot with waking up. Anecdotal, I know. --98.217.14.211 (talk) 13:58, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

No one has mentioned the obvious: Go to bed earlier...--Jayron32 14:28, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

^{I didn't as from my experience going to bed earlier makes no difference - that said it's worth a try!} 194.221.133.226 (talk) 15:23, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Get someone to throw a bucket of cold water over you. That should do the trick! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.75.14.110 (talk) 14:45, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Go to bed with the curtains drawn back, so that the room is light when you wake up. --Richardrj ^{talk email} 15:16, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

That depends on the time he has to get up though, in some places it is dark a long time in the winter. --Saddhiyama (talk) 15:40, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Stop exaggerating and you'll get up sooner. Seriously though, sounds like willpower might do the trick. Juliankaufman (talk) 15:52, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Have a look at Circadian rhythm, Circadian rhythm sleep disorder, and Light therapy. For example, you might try putting a bedside light on a timer, so it switches on half an hour or so before your alarm. It will alert your brain and body that it is "dawn" and time to begin rousing you from the depths of slumber. BrainyBabe (talk) 15:58, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

I do that very thing, and it does make a difference, although the "click" of the timer coming on can do it by itself, if I'm at the top end of a sleep cycle. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 16:05, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Is the problem that the alarm is not loud enough to wake you up, or you ignore it, or turn it off an go back to sleep? If the job or taking an exam matters to a person, I expect that he will find it easy to get up as soon as the alarm wakes him. I've seen people who turn off the alarm, or yell at the person telling them to get up to go away. Someone not getting up when the alarm is going off seems like it might be a passive aggressive refusal to satisfy the demands of the job, the school, the chores or whatever else needs doing. I have personally found that avoiding PM caffeine and going to bed earlier make it easier to get up. In my case, there are certainly points in the sleep cycle where the sleep is more shallow than others, and times when it takes quite a racket to wake me. Edison (talk) 16:12, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

When I last had a hard deadline for waking up, I set up the alarm clock to wake me up earlier. I got to enjoy my slow process of getting up, and still made it in time. (Well, at least sometimes I did. (Ok, I was so famous for missing the morning meeting they got me an alarm clock for a present when I left the company.)) 62.78.198.48 (talk) 16:49, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Did you leave voluntarily? Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 17:00, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

OR: Check your diet. If you're getting through the day on a high sugar diet, you'll wake up with v.low blood sugar levels, which manifests in a somewhat disorientated start to the day. --Tagishsimon (talk) 18:53, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Bogus medical advice alert: depending on the person's ability to metabolize carbohydrates, a "high sugar diet" might leave the blood sugar quite high in the morning. See Diabetes. Edison (talk) 03:10, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Also consumption of large quantities of alchohol the night before is not going to help get you going in the morning. See Hangover. Googlemeister (talk) 19:41, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

In my (vast, well back in the day) experience of consuming large quantities of alcohol I could go to bed at 4pm after Clubbing (not the seal kind) and then I could guarantee 100% that I would be awake at 7am the next morning, bright-eyed, unable to sleep, essentially fully awake (and doubtlessly still drunk). I'd be fine, then by mid-afternoon then i'd be tired, lethargic and basically worthless to the world for the rest of the day (unless of course it was a 2-day session in which case I had to 'man up' and do it all again - such is a young man's life). ny156uk (talk) 20:30, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

4pm to 7am . . . 15 hours usually does it for me, too. DOR (HK) (talk) 08:03, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

8 hours of coffee, 8 hours of alcohol, sleep a bit, repeat. (Given as humor, not as medical advice). Edison (talk) 03:13, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Get in the shower as soon as you wake up. 90.208.66.97 (talk) 07:24, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

The OP asks for tips and WP:OR has flown out the window. I suggest:

• Re #5, having a partner who is good at getting one up can encourage a fellow to stay in bed for another 30 minutes.
• I use a clock radio to wake me in time to hear the BBC World Service news. After that I feel confident to face the world. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 09:58, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

I don't LIKE waking up suddenly - the fix for this is easy - have two alarm clocks - set the first clock to 30 minutes before you've got to get up. When the first alarm sounds, you can kinda gently wake - roll over, snuggle a bit, get some more Zzzz's - and by the time the second one goes off, you'll be ready to hit the streets. Just make sure the two alarms sound REALLY different! The other thing I found that works (for me) is that voices wake me up better than annoying noises or music. I could easily imagine solid evolutionary brain-science reasons for this - so perhaps that's something that's true for everyone. Hence, get a clock-radio and tune it to a talk-radio station. For a long time, I had a really effective talking alarm clock that spoke the time to you with increasing degrees of urgency: "The time is blah-blah"..."The time is now blah-plah+5 WAKE UP!"..."The time is now blah-blah+10 YOU ARE LATE!" and so on. Sadly, my wife threw that one across the room and it doesn't work anymore. :-( If you are one of those people who manages to turn the alarm off while still asleep - you probably need a Clocky! SteveBaker (talk) 14:58, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

There are alarm clocks which throw themselves off of their place by your bed and tumble onto the floor so you have to go looking for them. Who then was a gentleman? (talk) 19:04, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

What the OP has described is a sympton of caffeine addiction. Give up tea and coffee and after a bad few days or weeks you will wake up instantly feeling alert and refreshed. 89.240.57.97 (talk) 00:02, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Careful, that could be construed as medical advice. Googlemeister (talk) 13:43, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Map with coordinates

There are loads of maps available on the Internet, but I still haven't found one that shows the coordinates. There is Shadedrelief, which gives the coordinates for the location of the mousepointer (plus some other nice features), but what I want is lines over the map for the altitude and longitude. I assume that maps are put together using those coordinates, so I'm surprised that they are never shown. Or is there a map-site that does give them? DirkvdM (talk) 13:11, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

NOAA radar maps have that.Accdude92 (talk) (sign) 13:15, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

You mean this? That's only the US, and I see no coordinate lines. DirkvdM (talk) 13:40, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

No, but if you go into a specific areas map, ie go to type in 76109 into zipcode search, and click on the radar on that page, scrool down to the bottom, and it has lat, long on there. Just drag your mouse over the map to get it.Accdude92 (talk) (sign) 13:51, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

I still don't see how this will show me anything outside the US. DirkvdM (talk) 18:34, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Just search Google for "world map latitude longitude" does that help?Accdude92 (talk) (sign) 14:03, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

No. Did you find anything like that? Not surprisingly, it only gives world maps, and I would like a little more detail, to put it mildly. :) Dropping 'world' from the query doesn't help either. DirkvdM (talk) 18:34, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Multimap provides coordinates for any point that you choose to centre the map on. It's not quite what you want - no lines on the map, but an excellent statement of what the coords are for any chosen point. You'll find the coords in the bottom right side of the page. Google does the same, but in a more obscure way, embedded within the "link" url. --Tagishsimon (talk) 18:49, 8 September 2009 (UT

Yes, I knew about the Google Maps feature, which is way too complicated to be practical. And Multimap does does the same as Shadedrelief, but uses way too smal a map and isn't very handy in several other ways. Thanks for the input, though. DirkvdM (talk) 11:58, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Iconic image

I have been looking for the iconic image - The image consists of English HQ or command female pushing forces around a giant map table, i have tryed all sorts of wording but to no joy any ideas?Chromagnum (talk) 13:20, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

This is shown in the film Battle of Britain, with WAAFs pushing markers around the board. Those search terms should help you - I found this which has a small image, but I'm sure you'll find many more. -- Finlay McWalter • Talk 13:28, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

"RAF operations room" seems like the right search term. I like their special croupier's rakes, they give an air of gambling to the whole thing. 213.122.36.227 (talk) 14:02, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

There are similar scenes in the rather well known film Sink the Bismarck! Deor (talk) 15:23, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

I don't have time to look for images online, but they have one of those rooms at the avaiation/war museum in Duxford. Maybe that will help someone find one. --Anon, 22:28 UTC, September 8, 2009.

If it helps you narrow your image search, these are the names of the women's branches or auxiliaries of the British armed forces during World War II:

• Auxiliary Territorial Service (A.T.S.) — Army (my mother served in the ATS)
• Women's Royal Naval Service (WRNS or Wrens) — Royal Navy
• Women's Royal Air Force (WRAF) — Royal Air Force

So, for example, a picture caption might refer to Wrens moving markers around a map or table.—— Shakescene (talk) 04:15, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Try [8] [9] [10] DJ Clayworth (talk) 17:57, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Population of America

what is the current population of America? What percentage of this population comprises the work force? what percentage of all the jobs have been lost since 911? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.53.222.64 (talk) 16:14, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Template:Websearch; 59.2; I don't understand the question. --Sean 16:57, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

The US only does a complete count once every 10 years, so our most recent census data is for 2000 when the US population was 281,421,906. This number is estimated to now be 307,340,000. I do not have information to address the other 2 questions at this time. Googlemeister (talk) 18:25, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

The New Jersey Department of Labor projects that the 2009 workforce of the US is approximately 156 million. Based on the estimate above, that's 51% of the total US population. As for unemployment, the US measured 4.7% in September 2001 versus 9.7% today. Thus, unemployment has more than doubled since the September 11 terrorist attacks, and the total number of jobs lost is a slightly higher proportion, since the workforce has presumably grown in size since then. — Lomn 19:27, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Presumably that rise in unemployment is primarily due to the current recession and has nothing to do with 9/11. --Tango (talk) 19:32, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

The rise in the workforce size means fewer jobs have been lost, not more, than is indicated by the unemployment rate. For example, if the workforce has grown by 10% then there are more jobs now than then, even if the unemployment rate is higher.. DJ Clayworth (talk) 19:58, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Many people will have lost their jobs, but gotten new ones. The unemployment rate alone doesn't account for this. APL (talk) 20:06, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

The Bureau of Labor Statistics measures the size of the US labor force. Here is a link to their figures for August 2009: [11]. The total labor force was 154,577,000. --Xuxl (talk) 20:05, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

@DJ: By 'workforce' do you mean 'those available for work, either working or not' or do you mean 'those working'? If the former, the 'workforce' would have absolutely no bearing whatsoever on the number of jobs available (whether taken or not). Similarly, if the latter, the 'workforce' would have no bearing whatsoever on the number of jobs available (whether taken or not). --KageTora - (영호 (影虎)) (talk) 20:10, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

The given link defines "workforce" as "employed + unemployed". "Employed" is obvious, and they define "unemployed" as those who have searched for work in the past month. --Sean 20:20, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

The definition Toto cites is the one I'm using. I'm also assuming that "jobs lost" is a net change, i.e. the reduction in the total number of jobs. My point is that an increase in unemployment rate can occur if the number of jobs increases (i.e. no jobs lost) but the total workforce increases faster. DJ Clayworth (talk) 21:10, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

That makes more sense. Sorry to pick you up on that, DJ. It's not something I normally do, but your original post didn't seem clear enough (and in fact, didn't quite mean to me what you have just said now). Thanks for the clarification. --KageTora - (영호 (影虎)) (talk) 21:51, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

July 2009 data: population estimate 307.226 million; labor force 154.504 mn; civilian employment 140.041 mn. The employment figure is 3.195 million more than in September 2001, an increase of 2.3%. Most important to the current data is the fact that we’re in the worst global economic slump since the 1930s. DOR (HK) (talk) 08:12, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

I don't think the United States was even around back in 911. 194.100.223.164 (talk) 16:37, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

The territory (as in the land itself) was, but I don't think the natives recorded any employment statistics. Googlemeister (talk) 13:42, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia in Other Languages

Wikipedia won't let me login as myself on the Japanese Wikipedia. Do I need to create a completely new username and profile for every language I wish to visit? --KageTora - (영호 (影虎)) (talk) 19:03, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

(This is really a helpdesk question) No, single-sign-on should allow you to sign in with your en.wikipedia login. I suspect that this may mean that someone may already have created a KageTora account there. If that's true (check to see what "your" contribs are there) you may be a able to usurp the account (if it's done only trivial things). -- Finlay McWalter • Talk 19:06, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Thanks, but when I try to login to Japanese Wikipedia using my own username, I get a message in Japanese saying that my username (when written with the two capital letters in it) does not exist. When written in all lower case letters, it just says my password is incorrect - leading me to believe there is a user with that name (in lower case). It seems that I can't login as myself. --KageTora - (영호 (影虎)) (talk) 20:05, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

And for the WP link about this, see Help:Unified login Dismas|^(talk) 20:21, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

It's starting to get silly, now. When I try to login it says the username doesn't exist, but when I try to make the account, it says the username is already taken. --KageTora - (영호 (影虎)) (talk) 20:43, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Have a look at your preferences/"Manage your global account" and see if the ja Wikipedia is on the list (also I think this belongs on the help desk or something, oh well). --antilived^{T | C | G} 01:07, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

I clicked on 'Internationalization' and ended up with English Wikipedia in Japanese, not the Japanese Wikipedia. As for "Manage your global account", ja Wikipedia is not there, but de Wikipedia is, for some reason. --KageTora - (영호 (影虎)) (talk) 02:16, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

The Unified Login system is a bit complicated and confusing. (Check out that link from Dismas.) Originally the wikis had their own logins. Then a unified wikimedia-wide login system was introduced that would allow you to log into all the wikipedias. However, since it was introduced after the fact, there are collisions. It can only work properly if someone hasn't already taken your name. APL (talk) 13:30, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

I don't speak Japanese and I am not strong in the single-signon-fu, but I suspect that since the account name kagetora exists on jawiki, you won't be able to create (or use) the account name KageTora there. (The account creation system doesn't allow too-similar names to be created, which rules out account names which differ only in case.) The login screen, meanwhile, is case-sensitive, which means that KageTora really doesn't exist on jawiki. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 03:25, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Yes I'm pretty sure that's the problem. In fact, if you go to [12] we find KageTora exists on en and de and [13] Kagetora exists on en and ja. Notably the en and ja Kagetora ones were created after KageTora. My guess is you've created all these accounts but simply forgot. As ToAT says, and mentioned in Wikipedia:Username policy (but likely applies to all wikimedia projects) too similar usernames can't be created by ordinary users, I presume Kagetora on en was created before this was implemented (on Ja it's irrelevant since it was before SUL). You may want to try logging on to Kagetora on en and ja with passwords you think it may be or try the forgot password function. If the Ja account belongs to you and you are able to demonstrate it, it should be possible to request a rename and merge. Merging the de one may already be possible. Even if you can't find a way to access these accounts, merging should be easy since none of the other accounts have any contributions. I know in en it's easy to request an usurpation if the other account has no contributions and you do have sufficient contributions. De and Ja will likely be similar particularly when it comes to SUL issues. (Technically an usurpation probably isn't necessary for Ja, you just need an admin to create an account but to avoid future issues I would recommend it.) In any case, you will need to request help with this, as outlined in Help:Unified login. BTW, while you may not have to do anything with the En Kagetora, but you may want to request a rename to prevent future issues (e.g. accidentally logging into the wrong account). I don't believe you can merge multiple accounts on the same wiki. Note that once SUL is active, an account will automatically be created at any other wikimedia project you visit while logged in, so don't be surprised by that (take a look at [14]). You can probably disable this somehow if you don't want it. Nil Einne (talk) 14:50, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

September 9

poker machines

Which country in the world has the highest number of poker machines per capita, and, the highest number in total?02:53, 9 September 2009 (UTC)Cassandraduggan (talk)

From Slot machine:

"In 1999 the Australian Productivity Commission reported that Australia had nearly 180,000 poker machines, more than half of which were in New South Wales. This figure represented 21% of all the gambling machines in the world, and on a per capita basis, Australia had roughly five times as many gaming machines as the United States. Revenue from gaming machines in pubs and clubs accounts for more than half of the $4 billion in gambling revenue collected by state governments in 2002-2003."

This doesn't say much for the rest of the world. Steewi (talk) 03:33, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Wanna bet?  :) -- JackofOz (talk) 08:11, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Online poker makes any PC potentially a poker machine. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 09:24, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

If those figures are correct, I make it that the U.S. has approximately 58% of all the poker machines in the world, so that must be the highest number in total. The most per capita might be Australia, but Monaco would only need a couple of hundred to beat it. Warofdreams talk 09:27, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

This source [15] claims NZ is the second highest per capita. It doesn't say what's the highest but I'm presume it's Australia particularly as our 20k is obviously lower per capita then Australia's 180k. On a somewhat related note [16] says Australia spends the most on gambling per capita so perhaps the high pokie level is not surprising Nil Einne (talk) 18:49, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Triggering an external flash

I have an old non-brand name external flash from a film camera (I have only the flash) and I'm wondering if it's possible to trigger it manually. Can this be done without breaking into it, and if not, how does one trigger a flash from the inside? Thanks! 124.154.253.31 (talk) 04:27, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Is it hotshoe mounted? If it is you can trigger it by shorting the big contact with the edge of the shoe. --antilived^{T | C | G} 05:00, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

It is hotshoe mounted, but how might I go about shorting the big contact "with the edge of the shoe"? Is the shoe the part of the camera that it's supposed to attach to? I tried it on my DSLR (I know now that was probably a bit risky), but either it couldn't recognize that it was there, or the flash just doesn't work (possibly both). 124.154.253.31 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 06:22, 9 September 2009 (UTC).

The hotshoe article shows a picture of the shoe holder on a camera. Antilivid means to short together the mating contacts on the shoe part of your flash. Many flash units have a test pushbutton that does the same thing. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 09:18, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Hmm I've always thought hot shoe is the part on the flash, but it seems it's the socket... --antilived^{T | C | G} 11:07, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

If it were the other way around, it would be a 'hot foot'. And no, I've never heard the part on the flash referred to as the 'foot' of the flash. Dismas|^(talk) 20:54, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

FYI, older flashes may develop a high voltage across the hotshoe terminals, which can damage the electronics in modern cameras. If you're thinking of trying the flash on a newer camera, do some research (and realize there's still some risk of inaccurate information). -- Coneslayer (talk) 13:10, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Please do not open the flash to experiment with it. An electronic flash uses a circuit to raise the battery voltage to several hundred volts, stored in a capacitor, which is quickly released through the flash tube. If that energy passed through your chest, it might well stop your heart. Electronic flashes I have owned had a little button to manually trigger the flash. Look for that. Edison (talk) 23:07, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Provinces and capitals of Region 1, Philippines

what is the provinces and capitals of region 1 in the philippines? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pearlversion pokemon (talk • contribs) 07:00, 9 September 2009 (UTC) This questioned repositioned from previous entry overlapping previous question. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.4.181.14 (talk)

Try Regions of the Philippines, it should provide the information you want. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.4.181.14 (talk) 07:19, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

To Kill A Mocking Bird

In the book To Kill A Mocking Bird."Our courts have their faults ,as does any human institution , but in our country our courts are the great levelers and in our country all men are created equal"

Critically analysis how the trial of Tom Robinson disaproves this belief? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 196.11.134.77 (talk) 10:49, 9 September 2009 (UTC) Preceding comment edited for Caps lock by AlmostReadytoFly (talk) 11:59, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Please do your own homework.

Welcome to the Wikipedia Reference Desk. Your question appears to be a homework question. I apologize if this is a misinterpretation, but it is our aim here not to do people's homework for them, but to merely aid them in doing it themselves. Letting someone else do your homework does not help you learn nearly as much as doing it yourself. Please attempt to solve the problem or answer the question yourself first. If you need help with a specific part of your homework, feel free to tell us where you are stuck and ask for help. If you need help grasping the concept of a problem, by all means let us know. SteveBaker (talk) 14:12, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Ah the good ol' days of critical analysis... But no, we won't do your homework for you. --antilived^{T | C | G} 11:03, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

. . especially if you shout!! Turn off your caps lock. 86.4.181.14 (talk) 11:31, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

If you are studying English Literature, you probably should learn the differences between "analysis" and "analyse" and between "disapproves" (note the double 'p') and "disproves". As with any student, you should also learn the importance of doing your own homework. --Tango (talk) 13:54, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Not to mention the proper use of the question mark. --Richardrj ^{talk email} 14:27, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Tom killed a bird that had been mocking him, he was sentenced to a prison term on an deserted island, where he eventually escaped (on a friday), but not before having to eat 30 eggs and to celebrate had a butterfly tattoo, inked on his chest Perry-mankster (talk) 17:46, 9 September 2009 (UTC)(B.Eng Lit (failed))

No, it was 50 eggs, I saw Paul Newman doing it!86.4.181.14 (talk) 17:49, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

The standard American usage (as in Harper Lee's title) is mockingbird (one word). --- OtherDave (talk) 18:12, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Consider this - what does it mean for the courts to be the 'great levelers' and for all men to be created equal? Does Tom's trial/treatment/experience reflect a system which upholds these principles? Why or why not? Hope this doesn't count as doing OP's homework but as just giving him/her some pointers. --Joe^Talk_Work 21:11, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

I assume by "this belief" you're referring to the belief that US courts encourage "level" playing fields and that all men are equal. This seems easy - just choose five or six relevant elements of Tom Robinson's case and explain how each one shows that the justice system is not fair and that Robinson is not considered equal. Start with a gripping introduction and end with a fancy conclusion and you should be fine. Zain Ebrahim (talk) 11:10, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

National Healh Plan

Describe the proposed national health plan proposed by President Obama. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 170.235.0.116 (talk) 12:13, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Welcome to the Wikipedia Reference Desk. Your question appears to be a homework question. I apologize if this is a misevaluation, but it is our policy here to not do people's homework for them, but to merely aid them in doing it themselves. Letting someone else do your homework does not help you learn how to solve such problems. Please attempt to solve the problem yourself first. If you need help with a specific part of your homework, feel free to tell us where you are stuck and ask for help. If you need help grasping the concept of a problem, by all means let us know. Nanonic (talk) 12:20, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Do Health care reform in the United States#Obama administration proposals and America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 answer your demand? AlmostReadytoFly (talk) 12:26, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

To be honest, this is something of a moving target. The president has been 'adjusting' (OK - majorly refactoring) his plans in a vain effort to get the republicans on-board. Since that ship appears to have sailed, he now has to reposition it to allow every single democrat to vote for it since there is no room for a single democratic "no" vote if it's to pass without republican support. So expect the contentious parts to be left vague in order to preserve 'wiggle room'. Obama is giving a big speech to (I believe) the Senate later today where things may become a lot clearer. If you're tasked with writing a paper about this - you should really find a radio station that's going to play it "uncut" (probably, any NPR station will do) and listen to what he actually says...which right now is the closest you're going to get to understanding his true position as of today. However, you can bet there is some serious horse-trading yet to come as those democrats holding out with the last few votes realise that this is the last chance they'll get for a long time to have the presidency "owe them a favor"! SteveBaker (talk) 14:09, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Most members and adherents of the U.S. Democratic Party consider themselves to be republicans (few want to restore the monarchy), and most Republicans consider themselves to be democrats (rather than champions of aristocracy or autocracy), so please capitalize when referring to one of those political parties or Congressional caucuses. ;-) For some reason editors at all levels seem to misspell section headings more often than they do body text. —— Shakescene (talk) 15:05, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

That is because the misspelled words are underlined in red in the body, but not in the title, so mistakes in the title are more likely to go unnoticed by the writer.

Even without 60 senators on board, there's Reconciliation (U.S. Congress). --Sean 16:58, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

In fact the President hasn't directly put forward a specific plan so far. He's left that up to congress, which has produced several different bills that are making their way through the House of Representatives. He's sort of vaguely endorsed certain provisions that he'd like to see in a bill, and as SteveBaker mentioned, even those stances have been shifting as the White House and its allies in congress try to gauge what they can reasonably hope to get passed and negotiate with the various parties involved. The speech will hopefully contain a lot more concrete details about what he wants and expects to be in a final bill, so you can find out with the rest of us tonight. Rckrone (talk) 18:17, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Philanthropic traveling

I have planning a trip to either Europe or South America and someone told me about sponsored, philanthropic travel. An organization pays your way and for 7-14 days (whatever), you go to a certain country and work for about 4 hours a day and for the rest of the day you are free to explore the country. Can anyone point me in the right direction? --67.85.117.190 (talk) 15:22, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Well, I don't know how much you can explore any country much bigger than San Marino if you have to get back to base to work a four-hour shift every day. Nor am I clear on which direction you expect the philanthropy to flow: there are plenty of organisations that will take your money and allow you to volunteer in their orphanages, etc.; however, if you wish someone else to pay you to go travelling, you might look into travel writing instead. For an in-depth look at a country, with no money changing hands, try WWOOF. BrainyBabe (talk) 18:58, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Voluntary Service Overseas is a charitable organisation which involves overseas work, the categories at the bottom of the page should help you find similar, perhaps more suitable organisations. I understand that much of the work is aimed at teachers/medical people, but their will undoubtably be other opportunities.83.100.250.79 (talk) 19:25, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Category:International volunteer organizations and Category:Development charities may be useful.

If you can narrow the type of philathropic work you want to do, this may help, also try "volunteer work overseas + skill/occupation" as a search term.83.100.250.79 (talk) 19:29, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Cry the beloved country

Who was Stephen's guide and closest friend in Johannesburg?Accdude92 (talk) (sign) 16:31, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

For the book, see Cry, The Beloved Country. Reverend Theophilus Msimangu is the guide, played by Sidney Poitier in the 1950s movie version, and by Vusi Kunene in the 1995 movie version. ---Sluzzelin talk 16:46, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

medical and legal troubleshooting charts

Is there a list of medical and legal troubleshooting charts? I know that charts are discouraged (although they are used extensively by laymen in Africa) because in advanced cultures they can cut into the bread and butter profits of some doctors and lawyers and can not be held liable if correct. The patient and client however should have the ultimate choice of which they find for their own budgets are better to use.-- Taxa (talk) 20:23, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

I have seen a medical troubleshooting book before. I think it was put out by one of the US military branches, the navy or coast guard or something. 65.121.141.34 (talk) 20:35, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

In the US Nolo.com publishes a range of legal self-help books, which contain checklists, sample letters, and some summaries of relevant statute and case law. In the UK the Consumers' Association publishes similar self-help books, of which a few are legal in nature, or related to property (list) and which have similar info. Every modest sized bookshop in either country will sell a family medical encyclopedia. Professional and academic bookshops will also sometimes sell more technical checklists and so forth (intended for semi-professionals, like paralegals or nurses); while these aren't intended to replace lawyers or doctors respectively, I'd bet that in deprived places they often nevertheless are. -- Finlay McWalter • Talk 20:40, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

The closest I've ever seen to this was an insanely complicated wall-chart in a pharmacy which plotted possible interactions between prescription drugs, OTC drugs, and health symptoms. Simply put, medical and legal problems are often not amenable to yes/no or look-in-table questions. The starting point is often "I just got a lawyer's letter and I want to sue them" or "Doctor, my tummy hurts". So there is a process of discovery, "which lawyer/who do you want to sue?" and "where in your tummy?" Then there is the time aspect, which is a human thing. So the expert watches when you say "no, I just got this letter yesterday" or "no, it only started hurting last week". Then they say "are you really sure? Or have you noticed anything in the past?". How do you put those nuances into a flowchart?

Now it's certainly true that troubleshooting charts would be highly useful for military medics in the battlefield, whose job is to preserve the fighting capability of their unit and to move the incapable out. But I wouldn't call that competent medical "advice" - and neither would I think it was a good legal tactic.

And I wouldn't think the problem is a desire to protect profits. There are tons of medical and legal advice sites. But I think the idea that there can ever be a definitive checklist for these sort of complex fields just ignores how truly complex they are. In both medical and legal areas, more important than "being right" is not being wrong. "The chart said so" is never an excuse for "well, I just died!". "The chart said to file this form" is not an excuse for "I just lost my house"... Franamax (talk) 01:02, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

You kind of have to know how a decision table/flow chart works, especially one that is dynamically optimized and automated. They should be open to constant revision, just like a wiki. In fact this would be the perfect place to publish such a chart. Nuances are just additional variables or states. -- Taxa (talk) 19:51, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

The UK government has set up the National Pandemic Flu Service with both a website and a national free phone line. I'm not in the UK so can't check out how it works. -- Александр Дмитрий (Alexandr Dmitri) (talk) 12:21, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

written narritive

How do you wright one? And, could I interview someone here?Accdude92 (talk) (sign) 20:47, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

"Narrative" is basically a fancy name for a story. What do you need the interview for? Xenon54 / talk / 21:06, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Maybe this is my day for speculation: our narrative article does indeed describe a narrative as a story, but to me there is more. A narrative is a description of events that is free of commentary or speculation. A narrative should only present the known facts and avoid opinions. So the way to write a narrative is to try to accurately present the things that actually happened, with the minimum of opinion injected. A good example would be a judgement written by a judge, which mostly tries to avoid presenting any personal opinion on the part of the writer, and doesn't try to switch the order of events around to lead the reader to a conclusion. In fact, narrative writing is a lot like what we try to do in Wikipedia articles all the time, just present the neutral facts.

But that's only my opinion, Tolkien wrote a perfectly good narrative and Kurosawa made a perfectly good film. These are both narrative in terms of telling a story in temporal sequence, but fail my definition because they give extra insights into character and/or introduce background story elementa out-of-sequence.

So maybe you should clarify then - do you want to write a creative narrative, or a factual narrative? (And yeah, what is the interview for?) Franamax (talk) 00:32, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

The Hobbit was perfect? I take it that for you, the words perfect and boring are not unrelated? --Trovatore (talk) 02:38, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Hehe, 'tis true that opinions on written works are pretty much one per reader! :) I only meant it as a good storytelling example of a narrative, in that it describes a sequence of events with a fair but not excessive amount of external discourse on backstory and internal life of the protagonists. I suppose it would depend on your own time of reading life on first encounter, exposure to other and maybe more modern forms of presentation, affinity to the themes embodied in the work. Shall we say pistols at dawn then? :) As an intro to the entire Tolkien narrative, or even as a work on it's own...well, I suppose it's a matter of taste... Franamax (talk) 02:58, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

I never could quite get what people saw in Tolkien. However ... Babylon 5 was supposedly based on Lord of the Rings, and it's probably the greatest television epic ever made. (Not that many television epics ever have been made — I'm using epic in a fairly strict sense, meaning a multi-year story arc plotted out in advance.) --Trovatore (talk) 04:02, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Our OP[17] is a member of the Wikipedia Typo Team dedicated to getting narratives ritten write. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 10:46, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Perhaps he was thinking of the first public telegram in America? Dbfirs 20:48, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

The "quality of light" to artists

Neither the article on Optics, nor any other that I've been able to track down, give any explanation of what artists would describe as "the quality of light" - the reason why painters are attracted to certain areas, such as Cornwall in the UK, because (I assume) of the clarity of the atmosphere or the patterns of reflection or refraction between the sky and the sea (I'm guessing here - I am certainly neither an artist, nor a physicist.) Can anyone help explain what this concept actually means, or where I can find a reasonable explanation of it? Ghmyrtle (talk) 22:18, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

It seems many painters like the seaside - this could be because of high light levels (no hills in one direction), reflection of light from sea, and maybe higher uv levels.

This might be interesting [18]

Low atmospheric pollution levels may also be a factor.83.100.250.79 (talk) 23:12, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

It's a term used by artists, at the other end of the scale you may be experiencing "advertising material produced by the St Ives tourist board to promote a certain class (purchasing power) of person to their resort".83.100.250.79 (talk) 23:14, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

I can't really find it in the Van Gogh article, but I'm fairly sure that he whas atttracted by the "quality of light" at Arles, and persuaded Gauguin to join him on that basis. I can say from experience that the Arles area has a certain indefinable quality of light and the sky is a captivating shade of blue. To some extent, this was and still is due to lack of pollution, and Cornwall being a relatively windswept and unindustrialized peninsula, I could see the same condition applying. In the case of Arles at least, I'd also speculate that a relative lack of humidity might play a major part, when I was there it was pretty dry. The proof of that would be how low humidity affects spectral scattering, which could explain that deep blue sky - but this isn't the Science desk! And if you assume that the relatively moist countryside of England would generate reletively higher humidity over land than cold sea, then the Cornwall peninsula would have relatively drier conditions than the rest of England, so again humidity. This is all total speculation of course, drawing only on Van Gogh's own impression and a few shaky inferences. Franamax (talk) 00:04, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Pollution may be a factor in a different way than you think. For me, there is nothing like the late afternoon light in Los Angeles. It's a golden glow I associate only with my favorite city, and it affects me at an emotional, nostalgic level.

But when I try to think what might cause it (other than, which is certainly possible, that my nostalgia is the cause rather than the effect of this perceived glow), the only thing I can come up with is the smog. --Trovatore (talk) 02:43, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Absolutely, local factors will always be important for local and former residents. It's quite possible (well, true) that I have an emotional affinity to my visits to Arles. Nevertheless, is wasn't my first impression of the area, and my greater familiarity with Van Gogh and his own impressions of the "light" came later, But I don't think that our OP is asking about "light" as an emotional factor, rather as a subjective factor in aiding the painting process just as much as the artistic process. So by my reading, does the quality of the ambient light itself in certain areas help in painting interpretations of a scene? I have some JW Turner prints of London smog on my wall right now to prove your thesis, but I also have a few Van Gogh's (prints too, I'm not that high-falutin'!) showing a fixation on that clear sky. I think the OP's question is whether there is something compelling about "quality of light" and whether that can be quantified. For Cornwall (and maybe Arles), this clearly can't be defined as presence of pollution. For these locations of artistic preference, a different answer is indicated. I'll still prefer lack of humidity (which = lack of haze) and secondarily lack of aerosol pollution (which = lack of haze) as contributing most to quality of light. If you are talking about "quality of scene", then yes, air pollution can deliver. Closed steel mills on the Allegheny and dead ships stranded on the shore of the Aral Sea count too. Just not sure whether they qualify under the OP's criteria. Franamax (talk) 03:56, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

For Cornwall, at least, I'm sure it's something to do with the facts that the air is clear (no local industry and not humid (thanks Franamax)), it receives "clean air" from across the expanse of ocean immediately to the west, and it is largely surrounded by the sea which reflects light in a different way to the land. @83.100.250.79, it is clearly a real factor - see Newlyn School and St Ives School. But we're all still guessing really - someone somewhere must have done some serious study on this. What's an "OP" by the way? Ghmyrtle (talk) 07:33, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Original Poster. --Richardrj ^{talk email} 07:41, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Glad it's not abuse! Ghmyrtle (talk) 08:05, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

No quality of light is more "artistic" than any other. But there are a host of other things that make some areas inspiring to artists. These things include social and economic conditions that welcome artists, inspiring natural landscapes, and a climate and available locations that suit an artist spending time outdoors. Lighting conditions that change dramatically with season and time of day will stimulate an artist to capture a particular brief lighting mood.Cuddlyable3 (talk) 10:33, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Thank you, but that is not what I meant - the original question was clear. Ghmyrtle (talk) 20:35, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

More precisely, your original assumption and guesswork are clear. My answer is to think outside the paintbox. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 12:14, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

The BBC TV series 'Coast' made in collaboration with the Open University covered this very subject when they visited St Ives in Cornwall (UK). I'd recommend it... Juliankaufman (talk) 18:20, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

"Northern light" has a reputation for being well-regarded by painters. Bus stop (talk) 18:32, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

manufacturing

how to do on line coating on nylon monofilament for sharp kite line —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nuovafil (talk • contribs) 22:58, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

you should ask on the science desk for a better response

Did you mean coat a monofilament nylon line with something - like teflon? - specifically - what substance?83.100.250.79 (talk) 23:07, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Or are you interested in Manja (kite), in which case we're in ground glass territory. --Tagishsimon (talk) 23:17, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

In which case be aware that a falling, windblown sharpened kite line can form a serious hazard to innocent bystanders. And the kite blowing free with an unkown length of trailing sharpened line will be pretty dangerous too. Franamax (talk) 23:41, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

September 10

ibanes guitar

i have ibanes destroyer guitar 1975or1976serial number is h7765681 tell me about this guitar —Preceding unsigned comment added by Firewind54 (talk • contribs) 01:09, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Start here: Ibanez Destroyer. Come back with any follow-up questions. Consider asking at User talk:TheDestroyerGuy - that user seems to have been responsible for much of the ID article. --Tagishsimon (talk) 01:11, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Photography question

After reading about the so-called "Crasher Squirrel", I started to take a look at the National Geographic Daily Dozen. The photos are all really impressive for a lot of reasons, but I am blown away with how rich the colors are and how much depth there is in most of the pictures. My crappy little digital camera takes photos with no depth and washed out colors. Obviously a lot of the depth is due to raw megapixellage, I suppose, but what about the richness of the colors? Put simply: in buying a camera, what exactly is one looking for if you want to get photos that have this level of richness to them? I know that a huge amount of photography is in setting up the shot, but some of these seem just way better than anything my camera could ever produce, no matter how brilliant I was in arranging the photos (and I'm not half bad at that). I am sure this is something that serious camera people know about... could someone enlighten me? --98.217.14.211 (talk) 01:40, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Actually, regardless of how many megapixels your camera has, MUCH of the depth-of-field and color richness is going to be due to the camera lens. The tiny lenses in a cheap digital camera will not capture enough light to produce the kinds of high-quality images that professional-grade cameras, even digital ones, will. Having an insanely high number of megapixels just means that your camera will more accurately store its poor-quality images. --Jayron32 01:56, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

I think the sensor is actually more important than the lens. If you have a fixed area for the sensor, the only way to get more pixels is to cram more charge-coupled devices into that fixed area, meaning you have to make them smaller. But the smaller they are, the noisier they are. So if you want higher resolution with the same fidelity, eventually you have to actually make the sensor bigger. --Trovatore (talk) 01:59, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Point-and-shoot digital cameras typically have quite small sensors. More expensive SLRs have APS-C sensors, which are smaller than 35mm, but allow greater light-gathering power, reduced sensor noise and higher resolution. Professional-grade SLRs use full-frame 24 x 35 mm sensors, with further advantages, while Hasselblads use an even larger sensor, up to 40 x 53 mm. Note that larger sensors may have the same megapixel count as a smaller sensor; megapixels do not necessarily translate to better quality, unless you're making very big prints (and even then there are ways around that). Like increasing size in film format, larger sensors produce better images, all things being equal. However, it may be that you simply have the camera settings wrong. Most consumer cameras have "picture modes" that enhance certain ranges to taste, usually by making colors more vivid for landscapes, or by narrowing depth of field for portraits. You might be using a default mode that does nothing. Also, any professionally-produced image will be processed in Photoshop or Lightroom to alter contrast, saturation, vibrance, exposure range, etc. You might want to try some post-processing in the software that presumably came with your camera, or use Photoshop Elements. Acroterion _(talk) 02:11, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

DSLR - I have yet to see a point and shoot that can reproduce the look of DSLR and film cameras. --antilived^{T | C | G} 02:18, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Of course, the problem with DSLRs is that they're big, heavy, and expensive. For me personally the problem with "expensive" is not the one-time outlay but the fact that it means you have to be so careful with it. I do most of my photography in situations where I want to be able not to get too upset if my camera gets wrecked, and where I don't want to bother with either the weight or the bulk of a DSLR. But sure, there's a compromise to be made in image quality with that approach. --Trovatore (talk) 02:36, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

There is a really great NASA page somewhere that relates quality of lens to size and resolution of detector - it makes the point very forceably that lens quality and detector size (not resolution) is THE determining factor. Since a 35mm camera will have a much bigger lens than the pathetic little thing that most cheap digital cameras have - that explains the results you've seen. Now - where was that dang NASA page? Oh yeah...Here!. SteveBaker (talk) 03:01, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

The OP may be viewing the National Geographic pictures on a screen that emits light or printed on high quality glossy paper. The same pictures printed on ordinary paper using a common inkjet printer may compare better with pictures from the OP's camera. Small digital cameras usually employ JPEG data compression that degrades the picture, but some have an option to obtain the raw picture (larger file). Cuddlyable3 (talk) 09:57, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the comments. (Just to reply to a few simple things: no, Photoshop won't improve the depth of my pictures, trust me; no, I'm not viewing the National Geographic site any differently than I would my own photos, mine just look like crap.) It seems that in the end if I want something that really looks good, I have to invest in a bigger sensor and a bigger lens. That's helpful. (And my little crap camera was not meant for much, so I'm not trying to rag on it.) --98.217.14.211 (talk) 14:24, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Nobody's mentioned the two biggest factors: quality of lighting, and skill of the photographer. No amount of hardware or software will rescue a landscape that's been photographed in the late afternoon, where the color has been washed out by haze and high, thin clouds. And skill tells you where to stand, where to point your camera, and what to wait for to get the best picture possible. --Carnildo (talk) 23:57, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Wine tasting

At wine tastings, do the tasters get drunk? I've been under the impression, based on a MindTrap question from long ago, that tasters didn't even swallow the wine, much less drink enough of it to become drunk. But a friend of mine told me that the participants at a wine tasting were carousing around drunk afterward. I read our entire article wine tasting, but either it doesn't say or I'm having some serious reading issues. ÷seresin 03:05, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

No, they don't. Well, at least they don't get drunk off of what they are judging. My father has been a judge at a tasting or two. From what he has told me, the amount in the glasses is quite small. Through an entire tasting, the judge may only put into his mouth what most people would call a regular sized glass or two. If I remember the numbers correctly, they only taste about 2 ounces of each wine from a group of maybe five to ten wines. And yes, they do spit it out. Dismas|^(talk) 03:45, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Often, sommeliers may not swallow wine, as they are primarily concerned with keeping sharp senses for the purpose of very carefully judging and grading the wines they are tasting. However, at public wine tastings; the type where you go to the winery and pay your 20 bucks, and sample a variety of wines that they offer, people don't spit the wine out. Basically, its a twenty dollar wine buffet, and the level of inebriation is up to the customers. I think it would be socially rude for people to get shitfaced at a wine tasting, but I have certainly maintained a good buzz at one, and I expect many people may as well. --Jayron32 03:42, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Loving the combination of 'socially rude' and 'shitfaced' into 1 coherent and accurate sentence! 194.221.133.226 (talk) 08:03, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

I am to please, or as the sign over the men's room toilet stated "You aim too, please!" --Jayron32 14:26, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

The op's question sounds like a public wine tasting event. Like Jayron said, it's up to the participant. There's usually signs or flyers that explain that you may spit or swallow, so there will be people walking around drunk and people sober. Personally, I think wine is usually too good to waste. --Wirbelwindヴィルヴェルヴィント (talk) 04:21, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

I don't understand why people at wine tastings would ever spit it out. Surely in order to judge the wine, you need to swallow it to get the full taste. I know practically nothing about wine, but how much can you tell about a wine just by sloshing it around? Otherwise you're like a film critic who writes a review of a film having left it half way through. --Richardrj ^{talk email} 09:18, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

I believe it's because the taster may need to sample several wines and he would need to keep his senses "sharp", as Jayron mentions. I know less than nothing about wines but perhaps it is possible to make inferences about the full taste by merely sloshing it about. Zain Ebrahim (talk) 09:40, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Sampling or consuming a wine are as different as dating or marrying a lady. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 09:48, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

(Edit Conflicts) As a real ale connoisseur and trained taster (yes, there really are courses on how to drink beer!) I agree that the gustatory sensations experienced during the swallow and for up to a minute therefter, known in our circles as "the finish", are an important portion of a drink's overall qualities, and should not be neglected - beer tasters always swallow, and both describe and (when applicable) award marks to the finish.

Although the finishes of wines are generally not as prominent overall as in (good) beers, they are (to my perceptions) still significant. That they are de-emphasised in formal wine tasting is perhaps partly because that activity takes place in social circumstances that frown more on mild inebriation, and partly because, wines being somewhat stronger than beers, inebriation would ensue more swiftly. (Increasing inebriation does also lessen the ability to discriminate and judge tastes properly.) It may also be that the finishes of wines are more persistant than those of beers, making successive assessments of different wines more difficult if swallowed, but since I myself rarely drink more than one wine per occasion, I cannot vouch for this. 87.81.230.195 (talk) 10:04, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

I was at a wine tasting last week and although spittoons were provided, very few people were availing themselves of them. I certainly didn't and got very drunk indeed. Cheers! Now, 'do you spit or swallow?' that is a question I never thought I'd see on the reference desk! Juliankaufman (talk) 18:17, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Since we have no taste buds beyond behind our tongues, there is no need to swallow in order to ensure one obtains the fullest experience. And, a professional taster may try literally scores of wines in a single day.

More interesting, professional single malt whisky tasters (at the distilleries) don’t put that delicious beverage in their mouths at all! Rather, one puts a small amount in the palm of one hand and after vigorously rubbing both hands together, inhales the fumes. Because most tasting is actually smelling, the results are good enough to judge the quality of the whisky, and yet not enough to overwhelm the taste buds after just a couple of attempts. One should not, however, drive afterwards ! DOR (HK) (talk) 07:33, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Umm according to our article, "Taste buds are small structures on the upper surface of the tongue, soft palate, upper esophagus and epiglottis that provide information about the taste of food being eaten." So there are some in the throat as well. Googlemeister (talk) 13:41, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

What is this signature?

I was looking at some photos the White House has posted to Flickr and there is a picture of President Obama signing a bill. There are three signatures: Nancy Pelosi, President Obama and another person, who appears to be president pro tempore. Who is the signature? It doesn't look like Robert Byrd or Joe Biden's signature. --Blue387 (talk) 03:22, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Actually, it could be Joseph Biden's signature. It is not identical to the one in our article on Joe Biden, but it could be a more formal signature (our article's signature is for Joe Biden) "Joseph R. Biden" or something like that. There is definately a middle R. initial there. I cannot read the first name, but the initial capital of the last name looks as though it could be similar to Biden's distinctive "B" in the signature of our article. Presumably, as the official President of the Senate, his signature would adorn a bill passed by the Senate, and not that of the President Pro Tempore... --Jayron32 03:34, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Blow it up to "original" size and you can see that the second signature is that not of the Vice President of the United States and President of the Senate [ex officio], but of the acting President of the Senate pro tempore (emphasised words written in). "Acting" would not have been added to the title of Robert Byrd, the elected but ailing President pro tem. So it's someone else. There are 57 other Democratic Senators (counting Joseph Lieberman but not Bernard Sanders), but I haven't figured out which one. A list you can check yourself is at Template:Obama confirmations (which I formatted, but which unfortunately doesn't include all the middle initials). —— Shakescene (talk) 05:11, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Obama signed the Bill on August 7th. Now the question is when did the Acting President pro tempore sign it? The Acting President on August 7th was Jeff Merkley. On August 6th it was Kirsten Gillibrand. On the 5th Tom Udall. On the 4th Roland Burris. On the 3rd Mark R. Warner, the only one who's name (or signature) comes close, but not quite. 80.123.210.172 (talk) 11:06, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

It looks like a poorly done Mark R. Warner to me; the k is not very complete but the rest looks exactly like his signature, albeit more hurried and/or nervous or whatever (the W is a little out of control, but clearly his). I give him a C- in calligraphy. --98.217.14.211 (talk) 12:52, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Name

Whenever I make up a nickname for one of my friends, it is unsuccessful, but whenever someone else makes up a nickname, it is successful, even if my nickname is better. Why are my nicknames so unsuccessful? Jc iindyysgvxc (talk) 05:48, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Because things like nicknames are very subjective and depend on the taste and fancy - but not only of the person nicknamed, much more on that of the collective that in prospect will use it. Also, when announced, it needs to catch on quickly, and there needs to be a group of people to use it. For example, I had a few nicknames attached to myself, like Gruber (back in primary school, I don't know why for sure), Bohun because of some of my family roots, or Dynamite because I was dilligent at work, but none of them stuck, because there wasn't really anybody to call me that, the collective I mentioned above was practically nonce. Another one, however, stuck - Joker, even though I didn't really like it, and there was a bottleneck, it remained and even this year I got to know people that started calling me by it. I believe it stuck because it was simple, funny, and plays on a certain aspect of my physique (take a guess!). And it's been in continuous use for 15 years - and counting. --Ouro (blah blah) 06:44, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

A nickname has to achieve a certain "critical mass" in a society in order to grow in usage or at least be self sustaining. The OP doesn't say what his/her criteria are for judging one nickname as better than another. One must not forget that "no nickname" i.e. using a person's real name, is a contending usage to using any nickname at all. Nicknames are generally liked for their appropriateness and recognizability, not considering who created them. Perhaps the OP's friends are distracted by their knowledge that the OP is busy inventing nicknames and monitoring who uses them. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 08:59, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

If you are choosing nicknames like your username, it is understandable that they dont stick :) Googlemeister (talk) 14:40, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

lonely planet guide to tokyo ignores disneyworld

I have a 1994 guide to tokyo by lonely planet and includes details of the tokyo disneyworld, how to get there, the cost etc., yet the latest editions make no mention at all of disneyworld. why is this? isn't lonely planet supposed to be impartial. this is too big an attraction to ignore. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Payneham (talk • contribs) 06:25, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Maybe the Disneyworld itself isn't what it used to be compared to what's available closer to home in the English-speaking world. NeonMerlin[19] 07:50, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Guidebooks only have a certain amount of space and they can't include everything. By and large the kind of people who use the Lonely Planet guides will not be interested in going to Disneyworld. --Richardrj ^{talk email} 08:03, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

What would make you think that Lonely Planet is supposed to be impartial? --LarryMac | Talk 15:59, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

It's called Tokyo Disney Resort (and not Disney World Tokyo), and (despite its name) it's in Chiba, not Tokyo. So maybe it is in the Tokyo book, but you're not looking in the D part of the index, rather than the T part. If that's not it (if it really isn't in the book) then Lonely Planet may have shifted coverage of it from the Tokyo guide to the general Japan guide; that's particularly likely if you're looking at one of their little pocket-sized city guides, which tend to stick exclusively to the stuff that's in the centre of cities, not attractions in the outskirts or in the greater metropolis. -- Finlay McWalter • Talk 20:13, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Both science and art PhDs

How many people have PhDs in both a science and an art or humanity? NeonMerlin[20] 07:49, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

One hundred and thirty-six. --Richardrj ^{talk email} 08:07, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

And there was I thinking the answer to everything in life was 42... Gazhiley (talk) 13:05, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

I didn't really expect anyone to get that, so I'll explain. I'm quoting from Bob Dylan, who in a 1965 interview was asked the ludicrous question "How many people who labour in the same musical vineyards in which you toil, how many are protest singers?" To point up the daftness of the question, Dylan shot back the response "How many? One hundred and thirty-six." --Richardrj ^{talk email} 13:33, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

I don't think statistics at this level are kept. We can give you total numbers of science PhDs (in the US, anyway), total numbers of humanities PhDs, but have no number that indicates where they overlap. (And they surely do; I know a number of people who have such degrees—often one in a hard science and one in history, which produces a pretty sharp history of science.) --98.217.14.211 (talk) 12:58, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

It does happen. While they are not PhD degrees, I have a friend who has two degrees, in Chemistry and in Journalism; he currently works for Science Friday as a producer. --Jayron32 14:23, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

At least one. I know someone with PhDs in both Nuclear Chemistry and Ethics. DJ Clayworth (talk) 14:34, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

And don't forget that at Oxford (and probably elsewhere), they award D.Phil degrees insttead of Ph.D's. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.22.85.155 (talk) 19:21, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

PC problems

This question has been moved to the Computer Desk where it might benefit from more experienced help. 86.4.181.14 (talk) 13:13, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Cry, the beloved country (book)

Who is the skilled speaker who had been corrupted by his love for power?Accdude92 (talk) (sign) 13:16, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Have you tried reading the book? Algebraist 13:19, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Yes, but I don't remember these little details...Accdude92 (talk) (sign) 13:20, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Is anyone going to help?Accdude92 (talk) (sign) 13:57, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Please do your own homework.

Welcome to the Wikipedia Reference Desk. Your question appears to be a homework question. I apologize if this is a misinterpretation, but it is our aim here not to do people's homework for them, but to merely aid them in doing it themselves. Letting someone else do your homework does not help you learn nearly as much as doing it yourself. Please attempt to solve the problem or answer the question yourself first. If you need help with a specific part of your homework, feel free to tell us where you are stuck and ask for help. If you need help grasping the concept of a problem, by all means let us know. --Sean 13:59, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

The answer, if you don't remember the details, is to read the book again. When you are reading a book for a school assignment, you should read it many times. The entire book should probably be read 4-5 times (though not all at once, you may just re-read certain passages once you are familiar with the structure of the book) before you "get" the entire book. Reading it only once, and then trying to remember specific details OR to provide a critical analysis of certain parts is probably not going to work well. Just re-read the book; its not that long and you can likely go through it much faster the second time, as you should be more familiar with it. --Jayron32 14:21, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

What's the name of this kind of puzzle?

I was looking at the Puzzle article and they didn't have anything like this [21]? What's the name/category of this type of puzzle? Searching on 'Picture Puzzle' redirects to the 15-puzzle, which is something different. These types of things show up on intelligence tests like the Naglieri Nonverbal Ability Test, but they seem like puzzles to me. 20.137.18.50 (talk) 13:59, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

It's a form of pattern recognition, so pattern recognition puzzle? --Tagishsimon (talk) 14:07, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

I found answers at Figure Reasoning Test and Raven's Progressive Matrices. 20.137.18.50 (talk) 14:20, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Breaking a lease

I'm living in an apartment but I'm moving out. In May we signed a (one year) lease. I called the apartment place up and they said that I have to pay 2 months rent if I move out before May. Is there ANY way I can get out of this? It's a huge amount of money. Chris M. (talk) 14:43, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Some states have laws requiring military members to be able to get out of leases.20.137.18.50 (talk) 14:55, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Given that you're asking about how to (re)interpret a legal contract, you should consult a lawyer. The Reference Desk does not provide legal advice. — Lomn 14:58, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Well, you didn't move out before last May, so you should be OK... unless you meant next May? In which get a lawyer.86.202.154.16 (talk) 15:03, 10 September 2009 (UTC)DT

I wasn't sure if there was some standard law that allows people to get out that you guys could point me to the article about it. (US, North Carolina). I'll see if I can find a lawyer who I can get advice from for free. The thing is, the goal (in asking here) is to NOT spend money. Chris M. (talk) 15:08, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

We can't give legal advice, even if it is easy advice. You will need to find a lawyer. But do check your dates - last May has passed... --Tango (talk) 15:11, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

It doesn't sound standard. Giving notice is a common requirement in lease/rental agreements [22][23], and the NC DOJ says it's your duty to pay all rent legally due under your lease [24]. It may be (check your contract) that you just have to tell your landlord 2 months before you move out, so you can still live there for the next two months. We don't know the constraints on when you're moving out. AlmostReadytoFly (talk) 16:27, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

In terms of legal ways of getting out of this, absolutely go find a lawyer. Only a lawyer is going to give you good advice about the law.

However you might try seeing if you can persuade the landlord to let you off the rent. I managed to talk one down to a month-and-a-half rent once in a similar situation. See if they will agree to refund the second month if they let the apartment inside a month. Maybe you can find someone who will take the apartment from you? DJ Clayworth (talk) 17:19, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

A lease is a legal contract. Read your lease to see what you have agreed to legally. Most leases commit the tenant to paying rent for a full twelve months. If that's what your lease says, to my knowledge in most if not all states, the landlord can require you to pay all twelve months whether you live there or not. So your landlord is probably cutting you a break by offering to let you go with just two months' rent as a payoff. To find out whether your state allows you to break a lease unilaterally (hard to imagine), you'd need to check with a lawyer, although, given lawyers' fees, depending on your rent, it might be cheaper to pay the landlord two months' rent. Check your lease for language about subletting the apartment. If your lease does not limit or forbid subletting, you could advertise for a sublettor to take over your rent, though you would still be legally liable for his or her rent payment and treatment of the apartment, so you'd want to check references and choose carefully. You could also try to negotiate with the landlord to come up with a better deal. For example, you could ask if the two month's payment could be waived if you found them a suitable (in their eyes) tenant before you leave. You could also try pleading poverty and say that you are breaking the lease because you are unemployed and out of money, and you just don't have the money to pay them two month's rent but you can afford to give them [name a price] if that will get them not to pursue legal action. They might opt to accept such a deal rather than incur legal costs of their own trying to get a court to order you to pay or garnish your wages. But in any case, you put yourself legally at risk by violating any legal contract, including a lease, so if you can't or won't reach an agreement with the landlord, you should seek legal help from an attorney. Marco polo (talk) 19:31, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Or find an alternative tenant who will complete the contractual term in your stead?

A drastic but effective course of action would be to declare bankruptcy, as that allows one to break leases, however, I can not give advice to your situation as to whether or not such a measure would be beneficial. Googlemeister (talk) 19:44, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

You would then be unable to take out a new lease, in most cases. You would have to get someone to sign as guarantor. --Tango (talk) 19:48, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

As Tango's response points out, legal actions have legal consequences. While we can offer advice on negotiating a deal with the landlord, I don't think that we should be offering advice on legal actions such as declaring bankruptcy. For those, you should consult an attorney and ask about consequences. Marco polo (talk) 20:34, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Presumably (from the lack of any correction) the OP is in the USA. In the UK there are organisations such as the Citizen's Advice Bureau which are able to offer low-cost or free legal and similar advice relating to very common situations such as this. Also, some solicitors (= lawyers) offer advice free for the first half-hour, which may well suffice for such clear-cut situations. Are there not similar low-cost/free sources of advice in the USA (outside of The Bronx)? 87.81.230.195 (talk) 21:56, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

As the IP editor says just above, there are many lawyers who will do a free half-hour consult, call your local Law Society. And there are lots of tenant-advocacy websites and law firm websites that have FAQ pages about these issues. Make sure you find one in your state/city. In many jurisdictions, the only damages which can be claimed are actual damages, and the plaintiff has to act so as to mitigate their damages, i.e. try to find another tenant. So if the landlord has a tenant ready to go when you move out, you will owe them for the cost of a newspaper ad - but they won't tell you that. When I moved into my current apartment, I asked the building manager why no term lease and he chuckled and said "why bother, it's meaningless anyway" (there is a rental agreement that I can't make too much noise or set off nuclear weapons indoors, but no term to the lease). But it will all depend on your jurisdiction, many of which have specific residential tenancy laws. So check the local websites and see if you can get some free time for a quick chat with a lawyer. You may be able to draft your own letter to the landlord, but yeah, we don't offer specific legal advice. Franamax (talk) 22:07, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

The Legal Services Corporation was established in 1973 and still funds and supervises semi-independent offices and clinics all over the United States. Congress has forbidden them from instituting any more class-action lawsuits, but their purpose is to help those without the means to pay private lawyers with just the sort of bread-and-butter civil dispute that you're facing. Check the Internet and your local directory to see if there's a Legal Services for your area. Otherwise, as suggested above, see if you can get free help from the local Legal aid, where individual lawyers volunteer their services for the same purpose (civil disputes). —— Shakescene (talk) 20:40, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Landcrete, a building material in west africa

Hey,

on the website ghanadistricts.com, where you can find lots of data on all the districts in Ghana, I came along the term landcrete as a building material for houses. This site also mentions sandcrete as a building material, and it is easy to find information on this material. However, I could not find any info on what landcrete (presumably a weaker variation of sandcrete) is. Googling does not give any info, and further research on the ghanadistricts.com site didn't supply me with information either. Does anyone know what exactly landcrete is? What is it's composition, what is its strength, etc? Thanks in advance! [[85.147.237.96 (talk) 15:05, 10 September 2009 (UTC)]]

According to this site, it's the same thing.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 17:03, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for your answer. As I read the website however, there is actually a difference between sandcrete and landcrete: "Unlike landcrete blocks, sandcrete blocks have to be made upon a pallet, as they are too soft to be carried when freshly made." I did find an article on landcrete on the autonopedia website, http://autonopedia.org/buildings_and_shelter/Rural_Building/Landcrete_Blocks.html , so thanks to you I found what I was looking for. Great! [[85.147.237.96 (talk) 20:38, 10 September 2009 (UTC)]]

Most popular mangas in the US?

Is that Bleach or Naruto or One piece? Or something else? Also I want to know about the popularity of Death Note and Detective Conan. What do you think are the reasons behind the popularity of these mangas? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.0.7.166 (talk) 18:00, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

As the above mentions, the reference desk isn't the place for opinions Nil Einne (talk) 18:28, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

My interpretation was that when the OP said "popular", he/she meant "has the most readers / viewers / fans", which is objective and measurable and not a matter of opinion. I don't have any idea, unfortunately. Tempshill (talk) 20:57, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

True, but the "What do you think are the reasons behind..." is a leading question inferring opinion. Trying to reformulate it into a factual question not requiring opinion is proving difficult... -- Александр Дмитрий (Alexandr Dmitri) (talk) 12:12, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Easy enough. "Have any views been published as to why these are as popular as they are?" Vimescarrot (talk) 13:06, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

This is a list of highest selling manga in the U.S. for late 2008. Naruto leads the list while Death Note is #6. 75.41.110.200 (talk) 13:46, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

"The fire is 71% contained"

In news reports on the August 2009 California wildfires, officials are describing the status of specific fires in terms of a percentage contained. Percentage of what? The perimeter length? --Anonymous, 18:53 UTC, September 10, 2009.

It is very common for politicians and journalists to use percentages without saying what it is a percentage of. Unless the percentage in question is 0 or 100 it is completely meaningless. There is no way to guess what they mean by it unless it actually says so in one of the articles. It could be perimeter length, or area, or even potential cost of damage, there is no way to know. We also don't know what the total is - it could be what is currently burning, or what has been burning at some point during the season. We also don't know what they mean by "contained" - if it was completely contained so it couldn't spread at all it would go out very quickly due to lack of fuel, so they must mean something more relaxed than that, but there is no way to know how much more relaxed. --Tango (talk) 19:00, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

...except that it's a pretty standard term amongst firefighters. To contain a fire means to construct (or use existing) control lines around the perimeter of the fire and any spot fires that can be reasonably expected to halt the fire spread. The percent contained usually means the portion of the current fire perimeter adjacent to a control line, but if the fire is expected to increase much in size it could be the portion of the projected control line which will contain the final perimeter.

You might also hear "percent controlled". To control a fire means to construct a control line around the entire perimeter, spot fires, and interior islands which are to be saved, and remove any threats so that the control lines can reasonably be expected to hold under foreseeable conditions.—eric 21:49, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Thanks. --Anon, 07:38 UTC, September 11, 2009.

Jeering a Presidential speech on the floor of the House

I know that unlike Prime Minister's Questions in the United Kingdom House of Commons, decorum is the order of the day in the US Congress. Has there ever been a case in history where a Presidential speech of a joint session of Congress was booed and heckled, before last night? Who then was a gentleman? (talk) 21:09, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Frankly, I was shocked when I heard the "You lie" followed by booing. They're acting like five-year-olds. Anyway, it's happened before, but by protesters, not a member of Congress, and definitely not an internationally televised speech. Opposers of the (last) President Bush did it on a few occasions (cf this Huffington Post article). Xenon54 / talk / 22:06, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

But speaking as a regular Brit watcher of the Bearpit PMQ's I have to say how impressed I was by Mr. Obama's handling of the situation when he clearly heard the insult, and pointedly pointed to the belligerent perpetrator. Whatever his electorate think of his politics at future elections, I hope they also recall his appalling behaviour (the belligerent) for which abuse he would have been ordered by The Speaker and removed by the Sergeant at Arms from the Chamber of the British House of Commons until such time as he voluntarily recanted his insulting remark in full frontal view of the Parliament Assembled - failing which, he would have been prevented from re-entering the House. Though I suspect he would continue to collect his bloated salary, holidays, pension and expenses, not forgetting his subsidised bar and restaurant bills.92.8.200.162 (talk) 23:08, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Apparently Representative Wilson's Democratic opponent in the upcoming election has gotten a big uptick in campaign contributions since the outburst. I should have been more specific in my question, I was really asking whether a President had ever been heckled by members of Congress. Who then was a gentleman? (talk) 23:15, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

It might be worth pointing out that while PMQs does tend to be vociferous, direct accusation of lying is avoided because it's non-Parliamentary language and the Speaker will require the Member to withdraw it. There was a striking exception on 14 July 1994 when Peter Hain had only just been called to ask a question when Rod Richards yelled "Liar!" at him at the top of his voice. Read here for what happened next. (The disagreement was over whether Hain had correctly notified three Conservative MPs about his intention to criticise their private financial interests in the previous day's debate) Sam Blacketer (talk) 23:43, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

It think there is something of a distinction between the president, addressing congress and the PM's question time. Firstly, the role of the president is in many ways ceremonially closer to the role of (say) the Queen. If someone had interrupted the Queen's address to parliament with "You lie!" - they'd be in incredibly deep doo-doo! Secondly, the PM's question time is not a formal presentation from one person to a group - it's a discussion and it's informal by its very nature. When one person is speaking a formal speech - it's really rude to interrupt in any way - but calling the person a liar is beyond the pale. Booing isn't good either - but at least it's a non-specific, general expression of dislike - that's a LONG way from calling someone a liar in front of the entire congress and an enormous TV audience. Finally, the President was (technically) invited to speak - there is an expectation of respect for someone who has been brought into the group. With the PM, he's working there every day - he's not even elected by the people - only by his own party. But notably, even in the extremely heated conditions of PM's question time - nobody calls anyone else a liar that directly without getting into a ton of trouble.

Actually the President was not lying. That's not a matter of opinion. You can go and read the the text of the proposed bills that are out there - they all say that illegal aliens don't get coverage - and that's what the president said. They say it in clear, unambiguous language. Ergo, the president didn't lie and Wilson committed the sin of being impolite as well as that of lying himself!

What Wilson is actually trying to communicate (and god knows he's doing a terrible job of it) is that the bills do not contain language explaining how illegal aliens who might hypothetically try to use the new system to get free healthcare will be tracked down - and what punishment would be inflicted if they broke the law. That language was indeed yanked - which some believe is an attempt to sneak in a loophole for illegal immigrants into the law. That's not an unreasonable complaint...

...unless you dig down and find the facts.

The real reason for removing those provisions from the bill is actually rather a solid one - based on solid past history - which it would be nice if the opponents would take the time to consider: In the past, exactly such a citizenship verification rule was imposed upon Medicaid in an attempt to "clamp down on abuse". What happened was that when this verification procedure came into force, only SEVEN people were ever found to have been cheating and EIGHT THOUSAND legitimate US Citizens were denied coverage. The Medicaid verification scheme had to be abandoned under a hail of criticism. What kind of idiot builds a provision into a new bill - knowing full well that based on the best available evidence, it'll fail? Yanking those provisions was a good decision - based on sound historical precedent. Wilson is entitled to fail to recognize that - but translating that into calling the president a liar is going WAY too far.

The very MOST you could say of that clause in the President's proposal would be "You aren't skipping some of the more subtle ramifications!" - but I guess that's too many syllables for a 'sound bite'.

SteveBaker (talk) 01:38, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Well, you really stayed on-topic there, nicely done. kmccoy (talk) 01:47, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Two observations: One, the Republicans are disenfranchised and increasingly desperate, pulling out all the stops and being as vicious as they know how to be. Two, Baker's comments are pretty similar to what he wrote on the talk page of that congressman, and which was deleted by an IP address who appears to be a sock or mimic of the indef'd user Axmann8, a skinhead neo-Nazi white supremacist Obama-hater (that's how he portrayed himself, don't blame me for those words). This is really getting beyond the realm of the reference desk and into talk page debate - as well as a WP:ANI report on the IP and Axmann8, which I did already, just FYI. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 01:51, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Er - I didn't write anything on any talk page of any congressman. SteveBaker (talk) 02:54, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

I was thinking of this [25] which was kind of similarly worded, though actually posted by an IP. Same general editorializing. However, my complaint isn't with that IP nor you, but with Axmann8. So this section is kind of veering away from being a help desk entry and towards being a debate. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 03:04, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

In case you're still wondering, see this article in Slate (magazine): [26]. Makeemlighter (talk) 02:21, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

That's a good article, thanks, Makeme. Who then was a gentleman? (talk) 04:44, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

The bottom line is that GOPers don’t know how to be -- or don't believe in -- a loyal opposition. DOR (HK) (talk) 07:41, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

A British gentleman Sir Robert Armstrong would respond to such a boorish interjection with understatement "A misleading impression, not a lie. It was being economical with the truth." President Obama can take comfort from the 3rd President Thomas Jefferson "The man who fears no truths has nothing to fear from lies."Cuddlyable3 (talk) 11:39, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

To be fair, "loyal opposition" hasn't been accurate for the (president's) opposition party, Democrat or Republican, since at least 1993. -- 128.104.112.179 (talk) 14:54, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Because a handful of morons automatically discredits the entire Republican Party, right? Makes sense. Makes perfect logical sense.--WaltCip (talk) 14:59, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

I'm not sure where the 1993 date comes from. It was way back in 1964 when Nelson Rockefeller was booed off the stage at the Republican Convention by Goldwater delegates. (Of course, the current crowd repudiated Goldwater in the last years of his life because he didn't believe it was the government's job to inflict religion on the public.) Goldwater was a person I could disagree with but admire. Not many such left. PhGustaf (talk) 18:37, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Charles Edward Stratford

The above was a horse jockey and trainer during 1880-1912 era.

We are trying to locate a photo .We understand he accompanied Richard Mason then NZ GREATEST HORSE TRAINER TO australia with horse called Lochiel where he beat Carbine the greatest horse of this era.We need your assistance.ORRSOM —Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.237.228.242 (talk) 23:24, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia has an article on the horse Carbine. Both Carbine and Lochiel are named in the pedigree of a horse called Rogilla. You could ask a local newspaper if they have a picture of Lochiel winning the race. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 11:16, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

September 11

architect

frankly, what are the core subjects that an architect must be well-versed in?

i very well know two of them are physics and math. what about chemistry? and other subjects? please inform me...

thanx —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.50.130.182 (talk) 02:36, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

A lot of the knowledge needed as an architect is pretty architecture/construction specific, like about the systems that go into a functioning building, building materials, lighting, using various design software, building codes, etc. Two other important skills are having good spatial sense and good design sense, although I guess those might not count as subjects and there's a limit to how much they can be taught. Geometry is important, especially as people get more adventurous with using curves and complex shapes as allowed by new computer techniques, but there's not really any higher math involved as far as I know. Certainly nothing past calculus. Some physics is important, but it's pretty specific things. For instance there's clearly some structural engineering involved in designing a bulding, but a lot of times architects will consult actual structural engineers on those details. Disclaimer: I'm not myself an architect so I may be leaving some things out, I just know a bunch of architects. Rckrone (talk) 05:39, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

I recommend you try looking at the websites of universities. Most of them will list requirements for their undergraduate courses. For example, Cambridge in the UK says "a combination across [the humanities/science] division is the best preparation", while the Center for Environmental Planning and Technology in Ahmedabad mentions only Mathematics as a compulsory subject, but demands a minimum aggregate score over all subjects. AlmostReadytoFly (talk) 08:11, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Building is subject to local regulations which architects are assumed to know about. The regulations may include zoning, building standards, distance to adjacent buildings and borders, connection to gas/water/electricity/sewage, car parking, fire regulations and more. Get to know the local approval procedures because that alone is an important service to your client. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 10:53, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

For the record, the physics class that the architects took at my university was a joke compared to the real physics classes. Googlemeister (talk) 13:32, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Architects must have a broadly-based field of knowledge that covers engineering (which leans on physics, thermodynamics and so on), law, psychology, art history, color theory, materials science, delineation, management, building codes and regulations and, last but not least, design. Physics appears in architecture school only as an adjunct to structural engineering and is not very rigorous. Calculus is usually required, but it is unusual to find an architecture student who does well at it. The critical skills, as pointed out above, involve three-dimensional visualization and design composition, which can be taught, within limits. That's why architecture students spend more than half their time in design studio. The law, physics, engineering and other matters make up the remainder of class time. Architecture schools usually assume that you can already draw and draft, and have some skill at technical design software before you arrive. Architects are expected to be articulate in both spoken and written communication, and an ability to clearly describe the design and construction process to laymen and experts alike is essential. Management skills come into use in the design production process, when the architect is usually the leader of a design team including engineers and other consultants, and during construction, when the architect is the chief point of contact between the design and construction teams. Acroterion _(talk) 15:14, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

question regarding roof ventillation for my home

I am building a home with reinforced concrete roof in a hot tropical region where there is heavy exposure to sun for 9 months of the year. The flat top RC roof traps the hot air and causes excessively hot condition indoor. I am planning to put holes in the roof to alleviate this. I want to put tin sheet pipes over the holes so that hot air under the roof would be sucked. Is this a wise and effective step? How large should these holes be in order to ensure effective stack effect? Can these holes affect the strength of the roof, when there is only walls on four sides to support the 6 m x 6 m roof of 10 inch thickness? --Jaffermon (talk) 04:42, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Similar structres exist on peaked roofs called Ridge vents. You could follow some of the links from that article, they may be illuminating for your particular problem. --Jayron32 06:04, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Can you build openings for ventilation under the eaves of your roof? They do not weaken the roof, are less susceptible to rain and can be blocked when you do not need the ventilation. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 10:47, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the replies. There are no eaves for the flat top RC roof. I can put the vents close to the roof on the walls but will they be effective? My experience says that the trapped hot air indoor hardly takes curved course to get out. I have narrow slits as vents immediate to the ceiling in my current home but they hardly let out the hot air. I don't know if hot air would get out through the vents I want to place right on top of the roof and can achieve the stack effect with some extended metalic pipe attached to the wind. That's where I am seeking advice from knowing people. --Jaffermon (talk) 15:11, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

The first and easiest step is to improve the reflectivity of the roof with a bright white or reflective coating. You should try to deflect the heat before it heats the mass of the concrete. Even though it's a hot climate, a little insulation could help, particularly in the form of a radiant barrier with an airspace under the slab. I can't answer whether a hole in the roof will affect the strength (we don't offer engineering advice here), but some relatively small holes that don't cut the reinforcing are unlikely to be a problem. You should consult an engineer. The sheer mass of a slab that thick (is 10" or 10cm?) will take a lot of time to cool, so ventilation seems to be a less productive strategy than reflection. Extending the vents upward will enhance the stack effect and give you something to seal to. Acroterion _(talk) 15:26, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

job search alot of help needed!

i have a diploma in cabin crew from icm and a customer service college certificate, what other jobs can i apply for apart from airline jobs in kenya? pliz help. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 196.202.215.71 (talk) 07:34, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

• Annoying answer: You can apply for any job that you like.
• Less annoying answer: The qualifications you hold will place you in a better position for roles in the area the qualifications specialise in, but a lot of roles (non-specialist fields) are equally impressed by provable evidence of an ability to learn/dedication to get a qualification/all the other good implications of having got qualifications as they are it being in their specific field. That isn't to say it is equivilent to a local-field qualification, but they won't necessarily be worthless. Most office-based firms taken on huge amounts of staff that have qualifications in non-related fields - not everybody does Business degrees but that doesn't mean that a History degree isn't going to improve a person's chances of getting a role in a business. 194.221.133.226 (talk) 07:40, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

The Wikipedia article CV can help a lot. Your CV can really open doors to jobs for you so it is worth putting effort into it. Show your CV to friends and listen to their honest first impressions because there is always something you can improve, especially if you are too modest about what you can do. People sometimes wonder whether to have their photograph on their CV. I think that is a good idea because it makes you less of a stranger to the employer. Of course your picture will show a confident well-dressed person who looks trustworthy! Cuddlyable3 (talk) 10:38, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Does your community or university have an employment centre? They may also be able to help. — QuantumEleven 11:10, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Another tip - I have no idea what "icm" is - maybe Institute of Commercial Management? (This may be a UK/US common-knowledge gap). Either way, your CV or resume should not assume that the reader is familiar with your short-hand or abbreviated versions of anything - spell out exactly what your certificate or degree is, and exactly where you got it. Nimur (talk) 13:57, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Billy Cotton

http://img197.imageshack.us/i/41990687.jpg/ Is this man here Billy Cotton, the BBC Controller? I heard he was an ex band leader? yay, nay :(. ?

Billy Cotton was a band leader. His son Bill Cotton was the BBC guy. I don't know which, if either, your photo is of. -- Finlay McWalter • Talk 14:07, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Being too many years old and having seen Billy Cotton Snr. and Bill Cotton regularly on TV in different eras, I can tell you that photo is neither of them. Richard Avery (talk) 14:56, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Oh well just thought he looked familiar, thanks anyway :). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.71.131.230 (talk) 15:31, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Google (or enter on another search engine) "41990687.jpg", the title of that photo on the ImageShack page. When I googled it, I found links to Turkish blog and a Baltic "fotoalbum". Of course, neither of these may be the source of that photo, but they might be worth looking into."Give it a twist, a flick of the wrist, that's what the showman said." —— Shakescene (talk) 18:18, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Citizen's arrest of a police constable

Have there ever been cases where a citizen's arrest of a police officer (especially an on-duty one) has occured? From the UK especially, but also anywhere else in the world, is this legal today? (don't worry, I'm not pinning one down right now, no legal advice needed) --145.100.196.49 (talk) 14:13, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

I don't know of it happening, but in the UK it would be legal. You can make an "any person" (you don't have to be a citizen) arrest if you know an indictable (or either-way) offence has taken place, you know or suspect that the person you are arresting did it and it is not reasonable for a constable to make the arrest. I'm fairly sure there is no exception when the offender is a constable. (If anyone is interested, a constable can arrest for any offence (including summary offences) and can arrest when they only suspect an offence has taken place - that is quite a bit broader than the conditions on any person arrests.) There are also provisions for anyone to arrest somebody who is "unlawfully at large" (eg. escaped prisoners) or who is disturbing or about to disturb the peace. --Tango (talk) 14:36, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

I have a dim memory of someone who spotted a policeman parked illegally while they went in to get their dry cleaning and managed to prosecute them. I don't remember if they tried to make an arrest. DJ Clayworth (talk) 14:39, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

I don't think parking illegally is an indictable offence, so such an arrest would be illegal. --Tango (talk) 16:07, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

See http://www.protectingyourself.co.uk/civil-powers-of-arrest.html for arrest powers in the UK.86.209.159.130 (talk) 15:38, 11 September 2009 (UTC)DT

I think that site is wrong. Civilians cannot arrest in all the same situations a police officer can. I explained the difference above. Try this page instead. --Tango (talk) 16:12, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

I have contacted that site to point out their error. --Tango (talk) 16:23, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

I can hear Gomer Pyle shouting "Citizen's arr-ay-est!" at Barney Fife right now. There's a risk in making a citizen's arrest, beyond the risk of exposing yourself to physical danger - you could be sued for false arrest. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 16:50, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

And/or kidnapping (or forced detention, anyway). Who then was a gentleman? (talk) 21:40, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Or assault/battery. You are allowed to use reasonable force to make a lawful arrest, but if it turns out the arrest wasn't lawful that force could be illegal. --Tango (talk) 21:51, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

All of these items are good reasons not to make a citizen's arrest of an ordinary citizen unless there's a clear and present danger and you can do something to prevent that danger. Otherwise, let the police do their jobs. As far as arresting a cop? Good luck with that, you'll need it! Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 22:34, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

chair design

chairs like this gives me creeps when I think of sitting in them. See those pits where neck would come in contact with the chair. They are greatly uncomfortable. I don't know what these supposed neck rests are called. Do they offer comfort for the neck and head? Is this a common feature to chair design? --Jaffermon (talk) 15:17, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Surely, given an average-sized person, the 'pits' are at about shoulder-blade level so that the neck and back of the head rest on the 'cushion' section above? Have you actually seen such a chair "in the flesh" (so to speak) and sat in one? If such chairs really were uncomfortable for many people, they would sell poorly and disappear from the market. (Sort of evolution by means of customer non-selection, when you think about it.) 87.81.230.195 (talk) 16:47, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Who is Martonas?

The speculations are many (Martin De Knijff, Guy Laliberté, even Mats Sundin), but does anyone know for sure? Entheta (talk) 18:53, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Sea nation

Is there a nation, state, fleet, community or whatnot that are based entirely at sea and claim no other citizenship or statehood than their organization of boats at sea? -- Taxa (talk) 21:00, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Well there's the Principality of Sealand... TastyCakes (talk) 21:03, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

How about one that can move around rather than being anchored in the sea? -- Taxa (talk) 21:35, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Sea Gypsies83.100.250.79 (talk) 22:48, 11 September 2009 (UTC)