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[[User:Shinealittlelight|Shinealittlelight]] ([[User talk:Shinealittlelight|talk]]) 22:53, 11 October 2020 (UTC)
[[User:Shinealittlelight|Shinealittlelight]] ([[User talk:Shinealittlelight|talk]]) 22:53, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

==== Statement by Springee ====
I think this is troubling behavior specifically because this is an admin. As I non-admin I want to believe that the admins are the adults in the room. They are the ones who set a higher standard for us kids and that is why the community has granted them special tools and privileges including the power to impose sanctions on other editors. Jorm is certainly welcome to his opinion on things, and in the case of the IP vandalism I share his opinion. However, this is not upholding a higher standard. Instead this looks like a case of an editor getting away with things because they don't feel accountable to others as evidenced by the conscious choice to forgo commenting here (noted by Guerillero below) and the many "Cool story bro" replies to concerned editors on his user talk page. [[User:Springee|Springee]] ([[User talk:Springee|talk]]) 16:11, 13 October 2020 (UTC)


===Result concerning Jorm===
===Result concerning Jorm===

Revision as of 16:12, 13 October 2020

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    Coffeeandcrumbs 1RR violations at Andy Ngo

    All are reminded that BLP exceptions to revision restrictions should be used with great caution and only in the clearest of circumstances. Barkeep49 (talk) 16:38, 12 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

    This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
    Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

    Request concerning Coffeeandcrumbs

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    Springee (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 17:09, 1 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    Coffeeandcrumbs (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

    Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

    Sanction or remedy to be enforced

    Andy Ngo is subject to 1RR as a DS under AP2 [[1]] The notice is on the top of Talk:Andy_Ngo

    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
    1. 23:01, 30 September 2020 The descriptor "journalist" was recently (last two days) edit warred by several IP addresses. The term has been part of the intro sentence since January and has been discussed in the talk archives [[2]]. It was prat of the long standing version of the lead.
    2. 13:01, 1 October 2020 Adding "provocateur" can be seen as continuing the IP edit war that was trying to add the similar "propagandist". I will grant this is not a clear cut revert.
    3. 15:12, 1 October 2020, 16:19, 1 October 2020 One edit to remove "journalist" a second time. An hour later, after additional user and talk page discussion, the disputed label "provocateur" was restored. In the interim the editor replied to comments on their own talk page and on the article talk page. They even opened a RfC related to the label "journalist" but felt it was OK to keep "provocateur" in the lead.
    If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)

    Editor is aware of both BLP and AP2 DSs [[3]]

    Dorsetonian and myself asked CC to self revert before the second set of edits were made [[4]] A talk page discussion related to CC's edits was also made prior to the second pair of edits [[5]] While the first two diffs could be seen as a single revert and the addition of new content, the second two reverts are clear. The second two don't have any reverts in between but given the discussions between the two reverts this seems like a questionable action on the editor's part. Even if they claim good faith in removing "journalist" they can't make the same claim for pushing "provocateur". Springee (talk) 17:09, 1 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

    • As the editor who opened this discussion, I would be fine with an informal notice/warning that C&C was violating the 1RR rule. So long as they understand the violation and agree to be careful to avoid violations in the future, any additional sanction would be punitive rather than protective. Springee (talk) 02:38, 12 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Additional comments by editor filing complaint
    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested


    Discussion concerning Coffeeandcrumbs

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by Coffeeandcrumbs

    • "provocateur" is significantly different than "propagandist". In these two edits, I tried to establish a neutral point from which editors can start a discussion to decide whether to include "journalist". As has been shown in previous discussions, the claim that he is a "journalist" is contentious and requires consensus for inclusion for WP:BLPREQUESTRESTORE. Each edit I made was significantly different, and the last edit (after self-reverting on the bases of the claim of "provocateur" is not supported by RS) adds citations establishing that "provocateur" is based on reliable sources.
    • I have in good faith started a RfC on the question of "journalist", which the OP ignores and tries to game the system by coming here to complain. --- C&C (Coffeeandcrumbs) 17:34, 1 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • The claim below by Wikieditor1992 ("they are adding contentious labels to the opening sentence without sources") is a complete falsehood. When I added "provocateur" the first time, the sources for that already existed in the § Career section. I self-reverted only on the basis of the claim by OP that it required additional sources. I self-reverted the self-revert adding sources in the lead. If a self-revert of a self-revert is a violation of 1RR, we are living in a bazaar world.--- C&C (Coffeeandcrumbs) 17:45, 1 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • Another falsehood, I opened the RfC a full hour before this opened. --- C&C (Coffeeandcrumbs) 17:46, 1 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • BLP is a double-edged sword. Not only does it require secondary sources for negative contentious claims, it also requires secondary sources for positive contentious claims. "Journalist" has a positive connotation, implying expertise, fairness, and fact checking. Multiple RS have established that Ngo does not meet that standard. --- C&C (Coffeeandcrumbs) 17:51, 1 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • I start the RfC about the "journalist" because that is the root cause of the POV issue. I added "provocateur" for WP:PARITY. I would have advocated for either removing both "journalist" and "provocateur" as I had done in my very first edit, or keeping both per NPOV. OP ignored the warning WP:BLPREQUESTRESTORE and restored the challenged claim, as if I am acting in bad-faith. I have also cited WP:3RRNO in my edit summaries. --- C&C (Coffeeandcrumbs) 18:00, 1 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • At the end of the day, if I did violate the 1RR, I apologize and will stay away from the article. I simply wanted "long-standing" to not be a justification for keeping a claim that is no longer supported by more recent RS, or consensus. --- C&C (Coffeeandcrumbs) 18:05, 1 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • The words "new consensus" appear nowhere in my statement. I have added a comma to the above. A good faith challenge to a claim from IP or experienced user, indicates that it is "no longer supported by ... consensus". --- C&C (Coffeeandcrumbs) 18:32, 1 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • OP's edit was itself in violation of BLP and so were Dorsetonian edits yesterday to restore "journalist" based only on "long-standing" consensus not supported by an inline citation. At the time, the article did not include citations to support "journalist" and the body in fact challenged that assertion calling him a "right-wing provocateur". AFAIK, it is not edit warring to remove claims on a BLP not supported by sources or to try a different word like "provocateur" instead of "propagandist" (which I never wrote). Editing is not reverting. Unlike Dorsetonian's edits yesterday, there is not a single diff presented that shows me reverting to a version the same as before (except the self-revert, which I restored with sources). --- C&C (Coffeeandcrumbs) 19:19, 1 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

    Statement by Wikieditor19920

    Not only is the reported user violating the DS at that page by breaking 1RR, they are adding contentious labels to the opening sentence without sources, and without even a nod to talk page discussion. I have spent some time at this article and this kind of disruptive editing gets in the way of positive changes and potential for consensus. CoffeeCrumbs suggests that it is "contentious" to call the subject a journalist, which is the language used by the New York Times, but defies common sense by stating that "provocateur" is not contentious label to which WP:LABEL applies, and which the highest quality sources on the subject, namely the WaPo and NYT, do not use. The editor clearly broke the DS at the relevant page and their reasoning here reverses the very meaning of BLP.

    Update: It is baffling that C&C now opens an RfC "in good faith" and accuses Springee of "coming here to complain" only after they violated the pages discretionary sanctions. Springee was right to bring this report, and the RfC should've proceeded C&C's addition to the article, let alone edit-warring it back in over 1RR. Wikieditor19920 (talk) 17:37, 1 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

    • Contentious labels require citations, even in the lead. MOS:LEADCITE. And I will note that C&C's RfC does not address the most contentious of their changes, namely adding "provocateur" to the lead, and only asks about "journalist," a label that the NYT used to describe the subject. Wikieditor19920 (talk) 17:47, 1 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • I don't want to go over my limit here, but I am continually astounded by the justifications offered here. C&C suggests that BLP is a "double edged sword" which also applies to "positive" characterizations. I guess we are assuming "journalist" to be a positive label, but first, this is nowhere reflected in policy. BLP requires that material be accurate and well sourced and is particularly stringent when it comes to contentious material. The New York Times (see above) calls the subject a "journalist," so that is an open-and-shut matter. "Provocateur" is more consistently attributed to opinion columns and other non-secondary sources, yet C&C seems to suggest the two are on the same level—or that somehow the latter is appropriate but the former is not? I do not see this at all reflected in the sources or policy. None of this makes much sense to me, and I don't see it as offering any hint of justification for violating the DS at this page. Wikieditor19920 (talk) 17:57, 1 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • I appreciate the new sentiment by C&C that they will respect DS, but I have no idea what they are referring to by "new consensus" and "no longer supported by sources." The NYT piece supporting the label "journalist" was published in 2019. If there was such a "new consensus" for C&C's changes, then why are they just now opening an RfC? Wikieditor19920 (talk) 18:14, 1 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • Suggestion This was not acted on and is now basically a moot issue. However, I would encourage any reviewing admin to consider imposing a "consensus required" DS on the Andy Ngo page. Wikieditor19920 (talk) 23:25, 5 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

    Statement by Liz

    I guess I should state that I reverted what I judged to be a reversion of a legitimate edit. I am aware of the continued efforts over the past few days by new editors to label Ngo a "propagandist", which is negative not based on reliable sources, but I thought "provocateur" was an appropriate descriptor. I was unaware of any conflict between these specific editors on this or other articles or talk pages. Liz Read! Talk! 17:52, 1 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

    Statement by Objective3000

    Like Liz, I also reverted propagandist. Like Liz, I also think provocateur is an appropriate descriptor. The two have very different meanings and provocateur and the like can be well sourced. Speaking of provocateur, I find some of the comments here and attempts to mess with the RfC provocative. I do see a technical 1RR vio. I say technical because it follows an IP edit war in the same wording and might be considered part of a cleanup. I suggest trout dinner all around (with social distancing) and using the RfC for agreement. O3000 (talk) 18:42, 1 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

    Statement by Dorsetonian

    1. Yesterday the article in question was suffering a sustained attack from vandals repeatedly changing "journalist" to "propagandist". As an obvious BLP violation, this had to be promptly reverted and doing so was exempt from 1RR/3RR restrictions.
    2. Most of this vandalism came from IPs. Exceptions were Vautrinjr who twice restored "propagandist" ([6], [7]) - claiming on the second edit to have added a reference to support it (though did not) - and C&C who initially removed "journalist" and then subsequently added and re-added "provocateur" ([8], [9]).
    3. IMO, C&C was being a bit WP:POINTy in demanding a reference for "journalist" when it is patently clear from the existing references (a dozen of so of which describe him as a journalist in their quoted titles), and from the referenced career section ("Ngo was a writer and sub-editor at Quillette") that he is a journalist. Nevertheless, the fact was validly challenged and there are references now in place. I am not quite sure why C&C is still pursuing a campaign to remove "journalist" from the article, but that is not the issue here.
    4. I do not regard "provocateur" in anything like the same league as "propagandist". The latter is clearly intended to disparage the subject; the former merely describes someone who provokes controversy. Adding the term with references was not vandalism in the way that replacing "journalist" with "propagandist" was.
    5. Technically, Vautrinjr and C&C did exceed 1RR which applies to this article. However, I AGF that neither editor saw that this sanction was in place and do not support the use of any sanctions against them. The ongoing content dispute can play out on the article talk page. Dorsetonian (talk) 21:34, 1 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

    Statement by Shinealittlelight

    In the link provided by Springee, the matter of whether 'journalist' should be in the lead was off and on under debate from August 2019 to January 2020. Now C&C wades in and raises the tired issue yet again, and violates 1RR in the process. This is not complex. If C&C can't follow 1RR, Andy Ngo is not the right article for C&C to be editing. We don't need to continue the long discussion of the issue of the word 'journalist' at AE; 1RR is either a bright line to be enforced here or it isn't. Shinealittlelight (talk) 21:35, 1 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

    Statement by (username)

    Result concerning Coffeeandcrumbs

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

    Peregrine Fisher

    Proud Boys falls outside of the Race and Intelegence topic area --Guerillero | Parlez Moi 02:43, 11 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

    This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
    Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

    Request concerning Peregrine Fisher

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    ItsPugle (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 03:27, 5 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    Peregrine Fisher (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

    Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive262#Peregrine Fisher: indefinite topic-ban from race and intelligence
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
    1. Special:Diff/981587198: disputing the inclusion of white supremacy on Proud Boys despite reliable sources
    2. Special:Diff/981579424, Special:Diff/981586873, Special:Diff/981584062, Special:Diff/981581234, Special:Diff/981580770: disputing the inclusion of far-right and on Proud Boys despite reliable sources
    Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
    1. Special:Diff/952615929: 72h block for talk page activity in a review for a race and intelligence page
    If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)
    Additional comments by editor filing complaint

    While the talk discussion was not particularly malicious, Proud Boys is currently protected after the slew of vandalism and NPOV issues, primarily trying to remove the mention of white supremacy and neo-fascism. In their comments, Peregrine Fisher also exhibited general incivility, often making stark and blanket assertions that other editors are wrong.

    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

    Special:Diff/981911385

    Discussion concerning Peregrine Fisher

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by Peregrine Fisher

    Statement by MelbourneStar

    I raised AE restrictions with the editor in question, here, after their query to the Proud Boys talk page with pertinence to white supremacy. Also, Proud Boys wiki-links to Race and Intelligence per this (although I'm not sure how, I can't find the link; if someone can find it that would be great). Thank you, —MelbourneStartalk 08:18, 5 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

    Statement by ItsPugle

    @Guerillero: Proud Boys have been designated as a racist hate group by the SPLC, often marketing themselves as "western chauvinists", with an "anti-white guilt" and "western superiority" agenda. ADL has called them Islamophobic and anti-Semitic with significant members sharing "white supremacist and anti-Semitic ideologies and/or engage with white supremacist groups". They're commonly called a white supremacy group by reliable sources, too (see the 11 sources provided in response to Peregrine Fisher's dispute). By all regards, the Proud Boys are a racist, white supremacist, violent political militia. ItsPugle (please ping on reply) 05:09, 5 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

    Statement by Nfitz

    As Peregrine often doesn't edit for days (or sometimes weeks) at a time, probably best to leave this open for a week or so, in case they want to provide input. Nfitz (talk) 14:53, 6 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

    Statement by (username)

    Result concerning Peregrine Fisher

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

    BrownHairedGirl

    Now at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Clarification and Amendment § Amendment request: Portals. Kevin (aka L235 · t · c) 19:05, 10 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.



    I write to request the removal or limitation of restrictions currently imposed on User:BrownHairedGirl.

    Per the decision in Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Portals#Remedies issues on 29 January 2020, BrownHairedGirl is prohibited from "engaging in discussions about portals anywhere on Wikipedia", and from "interacting with or commenting about Northamerica1000 anywhere on Wikipedia", both subject to appeal "in six months". BrownHairedGirl has studiously observed these restrictions for over eight months now, and has continued to contribute excellent work to the encyclopedia since then. Another editor and I are therefore preparing to renominate her for adminship. It is possible that either of the aforementioned issues will be raised by participants in the discussion, and I therefore request that the specified restrictions be lifted, either in their entirety, or at least to the extent needed for the purpose of fully engaging any issues that may arise during the course of the RfA.

    I am also informing User:Northamerica1000 of this request. BD2412 T 17:40, 10 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

    This is the incorrect venue for such an appeal. That restriction was placed by the Arbitration Committee, and it may only be appealed to the Arbitration Committee at WP:ARCA. Appeals at this noticeboard are only for restrictions imposed by administrators as arbitration enforcement actions, not for remedies imposed directly by the Committee. Additionally, appeals are generally only considered when filed by the user under sanction, not by a third party. Best, Kevin (aka L235 · t · c) 17:52, 10 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Very well, I will file there. I believe that this presents a sufficient circumstance to allow an exception to the general practice. BD2412 T 18:18, 10 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

    Jorm

    This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
    Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

    Request concerning Jorm

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    Pudeo (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 23:14, 10 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    Jorm (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

    Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/GamerGate#Discretionary sanctions


    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
    1. 8 August 2020: fuck off with your transphobia shit personal attack
    2. 27 September 2020 : Go fuck yourself, transphobe personal attack
    3. 1 October 2020: The Gamergate Controversy is a bullshit set of terms used to describe a misogynist harassment campaign without actually calling it a "harassment campaign" while also not trying to hurt the feelings of a bunch of assholes. It was started by a bunch of chucklefucks-- Battleground attitude, personal attacks etc.
    4. 8 October 2020: go fuck yourself personal attack
    5. 8 October 2020: Masem always argues that we put the propaganda first. They did it for Gamergate - so much so that those deplorable fucks refer to them as "Based Masem". Masem will always carry water like this. Keep that in mind while developing consensus. Battleground attitude, personal attack
    If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)

    Last alerted by SMcCandlish on 9 July 2020.

    Additional comments by editor filing complaint

    Diffs speak for themselves, and they are all related to the GamerGate/gender topics DS area. Especially the attack on Masem for his GamerGate editing had plenty of unneeded vitriol.

    Someone opened a thread about "Attitude" on Jorm's talk page just last week. He responded with his usual "cool story, bro" shtick. --Pudeo (talk) 23:14, 10 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

    [10]

    Discussion concerning Jorm

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by Jorm

    Statement by Jayron32

    Other than some salty language, at least 3 of your diffs were reverts from throw away accounts used by abusive bigots. Being told to leave with emphasis is exactly what should be done. I don't see anything there that rises to the level of sanctioning. --Jayron32 23:35, 10 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

    Statement by Masem

    Only noting that I know about the statement Jorm made in that discussion related to me and I just let it pass and still plan on letting it pass. Its disappointing that people want to dreg that up and assume bad faith when I try to argue on neutral stances on WP, but such is the case. --Masem (t) 00:26, 11 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

    Statement by Gamaliel

    In the words of GorillaWarfare: "We have picked a side, which is that LGBTQ Wikipedians are welcome here." For LGBTQ Wikipedians to be truly welcome here, we should be telling transphobes to fuck off. Gamaliel (talk) 01:54, 11 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

    Statement by Cullen 328

    Personally, I do not use the "f-bomb" on Wikipedia (and very rarely in real life) but there is no consensus that the word is banned in these contexts. I encourage Jorm to select other words which are just as effective but less controversial. Trolls, haters and other purely disruptive jerks should be shown the door, quite promptly. As for Jorm's remarks about Masem, I do not see a personal attack but rather a harsh (but defensible) critique of Masem's unique philosophy of editing. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 04:06, 11 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

    Statement by SMcCandlish

    This is the same sort of personally hostile battlegrounding and socio-political PoV-pushing that lead to me leaving the DS/Alert several months ago. But the editor appears to have simply doubled down. This is not about a specific word and whether it is "banned" (well know it is not). It's about intent and effects, in a long-term disruptive pattern. It's about WP:NPA, WP:CIVIL, WP:NOT, WP:DE, and WP:CIR.  — SMcCandlish ¢ 😼  07:50, 11 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

    Statement by Sceptre

    I see nothing wrong with Jorm telling bigots to go do one; encyclopaedic neutrality does not, and has never, meant neutrality outside of article-space, and demanding civility in the face of bigotry is peak paradox of tolerance. Sceptre (talk) 17:08, 11 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

    Statement by Levivich

    Masem always argues that we put the propaganda first. They did it for Gamergate - so much so that those deplorable fucks refer to them as "Based Masem". Masem will always carry water like this. Keep that in mind while developing consensus.

    I can't believe the above statement is being described as a defensible critique of a philosophy of editing or a legitimate behavioral concern. Lev!vich 18:51, 11 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

    As to the other comments, while I'm not one to advocate for sanctioning people for using profanity, we'd do better to be more professional, especially in mainspace edit summaries, which are the "official logs" of our articles. Telling people to "f off", even if they deserve it, doesn't make anyone look tough or cool or righteous, it just makes us all look childish for being the kind of place where profanity is used in "official" records. Lev!vich 21:47, 11 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

    Statement by Huldra

    That Jorm has been dealing with some rather unsavoury editors is in no doubt, but seriously, is it not possible to make vandals feel very unwelcome without resorting to a gutter language? That seems rather untalented, me thinks. Huldra (talk) 21:18, 11 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

    Comment by JzG

    I think that changing an article to misgender someone should be an instant indef block. We should ask Jorm to dial back the rhetoric, and then go and block the trolls. Guy (help! - typo?) 22:09, 11 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

    Statement by Liz

    Jorm has chosen to patrol some controversial articles which attract drive-by editors with extreme attitudes who he often effectively shooes away. I don't use the f-bomb and I don't think it is necessary to get your point across. But I can understand its use with some hostile newbies who seek to cause disruption or to radically shift articles that usually have volumes of talk page discussions that have occurred to arrive at a consensus in the article tone and wording.

    What I would like to challenge him on though is his use of "Cool story, bro" to editors who are not fly-by-night but are regular editors who just are coming from a different, often opposing, perspective. It's an unnecessarily dismissive and condescending phrase that isn't an appropriate response to another editor's argument. We know that these pages can be polarizing but I think it's important to meet a serious critique from a regular editor with a counter-argument not a flippant reply.

    The comment about Masem seems like old news (Gamergate was in 2014-2015!) and it is odd to be rehashing events years later, but if the comment doesn't offend Masem, I don't think we should be imposing any restrictions. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Liz (talkcontribs)

    Statement by Grayfell

    All of these edits appear appropriate in context. Transphobia is itself a violation of Wikipedia's principles, so this seems more like a witch-hunt then an actionable complaint. Also, all this tone policing and pearl-clutching over "swear words" seems disproportionate and, ironically, very immature. Grayfell (talk) 22:36, 11 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

    Statement by Shinealittlelight

    Admin Swarm once told me the following, which to me seems relevant to the remarks Jorm made about Masem:

    Comment on content, not contributors. It really is as simple as that. For example, let's say someone's being a complete prick, and everyone agrees. Is it okay to call them out on being a prick? No, it's not okay to make an accusation, even if you're not wrong. You report them to WP:AN/I with evidence of relevant policy violations, and we will block them. Let's say a user is an obvious sockpuppet. Is it okay to accuse them of being a sockpuppet? No. Again, report to admins with evidence. Let's say someone obviously has a strong bias. Is it okay to imply that they are being motivated by their bias? No, as long as they're complying with policies, their obvious bias is irrelevant. The overwhelming majority of us have strong biases, and the overwhelming majority of us do not POV-push in articles. If someone is editing with an obvious WP:COI, such as a user deleting negative content from an article about their business, of course that's not tolerated. But, even then, you don't attack their character or argue with them, you simply report them to us so we can handle them accordingly. It's really pretty simple. Don't over think it. If you're going to make a negative comment about someone personally, don't.

    Shinealittlelight (talk) 22:53, 11 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

    Statement by Springee

    I think this is troubling behavior specifically because this is an admin. As I non-admin I want to believe that the admins are the adults in the room. They are the ones who set a higher standard for us kids and that is why the community has granted them special tools and privileges including the power to impose sanctions on other editors. Jorm is certainly welcome to his opinion on things, and in the case of the IP vandalism I share his opinion. However, this is not upholding a higher standard. Instead this looks like a case of an editor getting away with things because they don't feel accountable to others as evidenced by the conscious choice to forgo commenting here (noted by Guerillero below) and the many "Cool story bro" replies to concerned editors on his user talk page. Springee (talk) 16:11, 13 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

    Result concerning Jorm

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
    • Looking over the diffs, the only one that is actionable is this personal attack on Masem. At this time I think that we don't need to do more than to remind Jorm to focus on the content not the contributor. --Guerillero | Parlez Moi 00:05, 11 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      I have to say that this makes me uncomfortable --Guerillero | Parlez Moi 14:52, 13 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • The real question is: Do our policies on civility apply to trolls? We have traditionally been very lenient when it comes to responding to throwaway accounts, but this pushes the limit a bit. The real problem is the Masem reply, as Guerillero noted above. I agree with Guerillero that harsh sanctions aren't needed, although I think more than a soft touch is warranted, and would instead recommend a strongly worded warning that civility isn't optional and the lack of it serves to make the editing environment more toxic. especially on the talk pages of controversial subjects where there is often more heat than light. Dennis Brown - 12:31, 11 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • My hesitation about any type of warning here is basically what Cullen328 said: this is a legitimate, though strongly stated, critique of the behaviour of another editor. If this was said at ANI/here with diffs it’d be allowable. It didn’t have diffs, so it was an aspersion. That’s not good, but I’m also loathe to start sanctioning or warning people for pointing out what is a legitimate behavioural concern. It does need diffs, though, and that is my biggest concern. Jorm, if you encounter this issue again provide diffs and take it to AE or AN. We have a rule against aspersions for a reason. Note: I’ve disagreed with Masem twice in recent days on how our policies apply to white supremacism, but I don’t consider myself involved in regards to him or the topic area, but I think it worth noting. TonyBallioni (talk) 16:09, 11 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • I would suggest that at minimum, a warning to focus on content instead of contributors is in order. And it's time we accept that labeling people as "deplorables" is always going to be counterproductive. ~Awilley (talk) 16:36, 12 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • I don't think there's much to be done here. However, TonyBallioni the fact that the comment didn't come in a conduct forum and was not supported with diffs is incredibly important. There is a reason we have conduct forums: so our article talk pages can stay focused on content. There is a reason we demand diffs: we don't want to support casting aspersions. If there were a pattern of some the behavior towards Masem being presented I'd feel differently. However, one such act by a longterm productive editor (like Jorm) needs a friendly nudge - and being brought to AE is already more than a friendly nudge - rather than a formal sanction. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 16:42, 12 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • Reverting even truly horrible edits with "go fuck yourself" edit summaries is unfortunate. Even apart from any concerns about decorum, it's just too much fun for the troll on the other end who will think he has successfully gotten a rise out of a perceived enemy. Don't make this a fun paintball game, just stick with boring "Undid revision 982224172 by 190.193.156.241". As for the Masem edit, it isn't some reasonable complaint that just needed a couple of diffs or another forum to be okay. It's a battleground attack which attempts to paint Masem as a member of some hated enemy team. I would support a warning. Haukur (talk) 10:33, 13 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • I would support a warning, not in the interests of decorum or because trolls deserve consideration, but because focusing on content rather than editors, and discussing behavior only with evidence and in appropriate fora, are pretty fundamental aspects of our behavioral expectations, and refusing to participate in a discussion about one's own behavior is not a good look, per Guerillero. Also, speaking purely tactically for a moment, swearing at trolls is typically going to make any trolling problem worse, not better. WP:RBI and WP:DFTT exist for a reason. Vanamonde (Talk) 15:55, 13 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

    John2510

    This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
    Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

    Request concerning John2510

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    Struthious Bandersnatch (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 02:09, 13 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    John2510 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

    Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    WP:ARBBLP :
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
    1. 19:42, 12 October 2020 copyvio from this source, archive
    Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
    1. Date Explanation
    2. Date Explanation
    If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)
    • Gave an alert about discretionary sanctions in the area of conflict in the last twelve months, on 18:03, 2 June 2020
    Additional comments by editor filing complaint

    I don't know if there were any previous sanctions. I didn't submit this at CCI because I don't know if there are previous cases of copyvio.

    I had not interacted with this editor before very recently on the article talk page where we had conflict. Things seemed to be getting more cordial but then I noticed that one of their first article edits subsequent to the talk page conflict introduced copyvio for apparent expediency in rewriting a sentence: note that lack of specificity, which allowed those executing it to target Taylor and her boyfriend — as part of an investigation in which their involvement was never firmly established and whose main suspect and accomplices were already in police custody — violated the is identical down to punctuation and spacing between the diff and the source and the rest of the sentence is similar besides.

    So this would seem to fit somewhere in the AE talk page notice prohibition fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process. I'm just realizing that unlike other AE notices I've encountered this one does not request immediate reporting but given that WP:COPYVIO isn't just a policy, but a "Wikipedia policy with legal considerations" I'll submit this and leave it to ARE's judgement.

    For full disclosure, I wrote the original sentence that was modified and I restored it to my original wording to fix the copyvio.

    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

    13 October 2020

    Discussion concerning John2510

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by John2510

    In this bulk edit Struthious Bandersnatch included reference to the Richards case, as well as analysis that appears to be wholly OR. Reviewing his sources, I could find only one that even mentioned the case, and did so as a characterization from something out of a separate Washington Post opinion statement. The characterization from the source was entirely different from the editor's point. Rather than being accused of mischaracterizing the brief statement, I used the statement from the article making only minor structural changes. It appears to fall well within fair use, but I've invited the other editor to paraphrase it if he feels otherwise. He could have done that instead of coming here, of course. John2510 (talk) 12:52, 13 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

    I had restored the text and noted its fair use in talk prior to seeing this pending action. I've now deleted it pending the outcome of the arbitration. John2510 (talk) 12:59, 13 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

    Statement by (username)

    Statement by Struthious Bandersnatch

    I guess I should also say that this would seem like a quickly-fixed minor incident to me, to under other circumstances handle one-on-one rather than with a reporting process, if it weren't a nearly-14-year editor who is a member of WikiProject Law and is Aware™ of Arbitration Enforcement and did it on an AE-marked article furthermore marked |topic=blp. --‿Ꞅtruthious 𝔹andersnatch ͡ |℡| 02:23, 13 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

    John2510 has now restored the copyvio without any paraphrasing or rewriting. --‿Ꞅtruthious 𝔹andersnatch ͡ |℡| 12:53, 13 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

    Result concerning John2510

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

    SPECIFICO

    This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
    Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

    Request concerning SPECIFICO

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    Kolya Butternut (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 10:11, 13 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    SPECIFICO (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

    Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

    Sanction or remedy to be enforced

    Gender-related controversies

    • GamerGate Discretionary Sanctions
    • Enough is enough "When the community's extensive and reasonable attempts to control the spread of disruption arising from long-term disputes have failed, the Committee may, as a last resort, be compelled to adopt robust measures to prevent further damage to the encyclopedia, disruption to the editing environment and to the community."
    • Recidivism
    • Battleground conduct
    • Decorum Incivility, harassment, gaming the system

    American Politics

    Biographies of living persons

    Within the area of conflict, editors are expected to edit carefully and constructively, to not disrupt the encyclopedia, and to:

    1. adhere to the purposes of Wikipedia: WP:5P4 Seek consensus;
    2. comply with all applicable policies and guidelines: WP:CIVILITY 2. (d) lying, WP:NOCONSENSUS, WP:DISRUPT;
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
    1. 07:47, 16 September 2020 After weeks of disputes over the sentence in Aziz Ansari's BLP about how/whether Ansari apologized in response to a sexual misconduct allegation, SPECIFICO wholesale removed the entire (small) paragraph about Ansari's Netflix stand-up comedy special where he addressed the allegation. No one at Talk:Aziz Ansari, including SPECIFICO, had raised objections to mentioning the stand-up special.
    2. 07:53 - 20:38, 16 September 2020 SPECIFICO continued to rewrite the disputed "Allegation of sexual misconduct" section with subtle WP:POV and WP:V violations. In response, I commented on the talk page at 20:49, 16 September 2020: The entire subject of the standup special and statement has just been removed [59] without discussion, seemingly ignoring the weeks long contentious discussion over this material. It's hard to discuss which pieces of this to keep after the entire subject has been removed... SPECIFICO, these edits are disruptive.[61] None of these are minor, they all make subtle POV changes.
    3. 12:58, 18 September 2020 at Talk:Aziz Ansari SPECFICO inserts ?? Crickets... (including ellipses) under their comment from 21:31, 16 September 2020, without signature, to make it look like I did not answer their (feigning ignorance) question about what I found disruptive. On 19:46, 17 September 2020, I had replied, You know from our discussions over the past few weeks that I think your edits are POV and do not meet V, and that the onus is on you to discuss your edits before adding them, which you have not done. SPECIFICO conflated the text which was discussed (the "direct apology") with the rewrite they made in order to create a false consensus narrative.
    4. 11:50, 7 October 2020 Personal comment about Thucydides411: Too bad that Thuc would take advantage of Awilley's tireless volunteer efforts and attention to continue his crusade for this bit of self-serving Assange propaganda. In this same diff at Awilley's talk page, SPECIFICO lied about what they really said at Talk:Julian Assange. At Talk:Julian Assange at 20:22, 3 October 2020 SPECIFICO said that because they and another editor challenged the text in the lead (about the Swedish sexual assault allegations being a pretext for extradition), Therefore we have no credible claim of WP:CONSENSUS for it, and per WP:ONUS, it falls on others to establish such consensus, which does not now exist, and per the Consensus Required DS, the pretext bit should not have been reinstated in the lead (emphasis mine). At the Talk:Awilley section, Thucydides411 accurately described SPECIFICO claiming that the "Consensus required" restriction prevents restoration of long-standing material after it is removed, and SPECIFICO responded by denying it, likely in order to cause confusion and interfere with policy enforcement. SPECIFICO now claimed to have only said that the "pretext" text never had consensus. (It's irrelevant to the first lie, but Darouet had told SPECIFICO that the text has been here for 18 months narrowly defined, or four years if we accept paraphrase![11])
    5. 14:56, 7 October 2020 Accuses Thucydides and others of Gaming and Bludgeoning, and makes more personal comments and lies: Thuc pins us to the lowest rungs of Graham's triangle, repeating his POV ever more insistently. First off, in Thuc's failed AE complaint against me for removing his "Consensus Required" DS violation, the panel clearly did not see valid consensus for the longstanding unsourced and UNDUE lead text. Second, WP:CONSENSUS makes clear that there must be some evidence of consensus on the past article talk pages. WP:CONSENSUS does not say that; we have WP:IMPLICITCONSENSUS. The AE case panel, (Dennis Brown, Black Kite, Salvio giuliano, and DGG:, Awilley, and Drmies who bowed out), did not directly evaluate whether the text had consensus, but as Thucydides accurately stated, this was the assumption that all the admins appeared to be operating under. Thucydides411 responded: This level of gaslighting is really unacceptable,[12] and linked to the talk section for proof. (Also note that the AE case shows SPECIFICO mocked the subject of a BLP, behavior that led to their Austrian Economics sanction.)
    Diffs of previous relevant sanctions
    1. 22 April 2017 by NeilN for what User:JFG described as a pattern of disruptive behaviour which contributes to a poor editing climate.[13]
    2. 19 August 2018 by Awilley: SPECIFICO is placed under the Anti-Filibuster, Courtesy in reporting, No personal comments, and Thicker skin sanctions described at User:Awilley/Special discretionary sanctions for a duration of 1 year.
    3. 22 April 2014 for behavior including instances where SPECIFICO's edits and talkpage comments on biographical articles have overtly mocked the article subjects.[14] (Austrian Economics).
    Diffs of previous relevant AE warnings
    1. 20 May 2018 logged warning by TonyBallioni: SPECIFICO is reminded of the behavioral standards expected of Wikipedia editors, and warned that not following them in the future will likely lead to sanctions per this thread at AE.
    2. 9 April 2020 logged warning by Seraphimblade: SPECIFICO is reminded that talk pages are for discussing article content, not contributors, and warned that continuing to make personal comments about other editors on article talk pages may result in sanctions. (SPECIFICO knows user talk pages are covered by this warning.[15])
    3. 15 November 2017 logged warning by GoldenRing: SPECIFICO is warned to edit collegially and assume good faith.
    Diffs of previous relevant ANI warnings
    1. 14 September 2014 SPECIFICO is warned that any such anti-community behaviour may lead to a site ban; 3) User:SPECIFICO is also warned that although an IBAN is usually controlled by escalating blocks, the community was already extremely close to implementing a community site-ban, so "pushing the envelope" will not be accepted, and may lead very quickly to a site ban discussion;...
    Diffs of previous relevant blocks
    1. 1 December 2013 NuclearWarfare blocked SPECIFICO for 48 hours for "Creating an unappealing editing environment".
    If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)
    • Brought a complaint at WP:AE for WP:ARBAPDS, WP:ARBBLP, and WP:ARBGG on 8 September 2020, see below.
    Additional comments by editor filing complaint

    SPECIFICO brought an AE request against me which was closed on 13 September 2020 by Vanamonde93 with the statement that if anyone wishes to file a broader AE request looking at the general conduct of either user, they are free to do so. (I do so now.) That case showed that SPECIFICO has used transphobic language as a weapon and lied about it by feigning ignorance[16] despite their extensive experience with the subject.[17] As seen above, after this case they started right back up continuing their manipulative behavior.

    SPECIFICIO's behavior has been dishonest from the start; I believe the evidence shows that they began their editing career briefly sockpuppeteering as User:Kevin4762 over a trivial content dispute.[18] SPECIFICO has not become more honest with time; they have only become more insidious.

    It's curious that the same ONUS/CONSENSUS dispute with SPECIFICO at Aziz Ansari has also been happening at Julian Assange, one of the only political articles still on my watch list, but I assume that (other than the tactics) it's a coincidence. Although I do note that they claim (in diff 5) that the Consensus Required DS is flawed. Let's not let it be sabotaged; admins have already interpreted this sanction.[19]

    This all is the very tip of the iceberg; it takes a lot more than 5 diffs to summarize the long-term behavior of a WP:SEALION. (I just scratched the surface of what I observed in the Ansari dispute alone.) Now I may be accused of stalking or revenge-seeking for performing due diligence. What I would actually like is for a person to be able to make a few edits to a few articles in peace without having to be a litigator, a detective, and a Wikipolicy expert. I don't think that is too much to ask.

    Is there such thing as a "net positive" dishonest editor?

    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

    Notification diff

    Discussion concerning SPECIFICO

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by SPECIFICO

    Statement by (username)

    Result concerning SPECIFICO

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.