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June 13

Track and Field championships

Does anyone know where I can watch the NCAA Track and Field championships online? Or is it on TV?76.194.67.13 (talk) 01:57, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

It's on College Sports Television apparently. They don't have a live internet feed, though I'm afraid. Fribbler (talk) 16:35, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Talking/chatting with other university students around the world.

I realise that this might be a broad question, but could anyone of you guys recommend me a way to talk or chat with other university students around the world? I'd like to meet people from other parts of the globe enrolled at any kind of universities, so I can improve my language skills, share resources, analyse opinions and information with them, etc. It could be a website, a forum, a group, an association... I'm certainly open to all possibilities. Thanks in advance. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.19.185.185 (talk) 04:50, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Well, the major social-networking websites are well populated with university students. e.g. Myspace and Facebook. Fribbler (talk) 10:24, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

At least for the language skills part, online games with chat might work. I've learned some interesting terminology by playing chess and chatting with my friend in New Zealand on www.pogo.com. That is, when he's not "eating tea", "washing his hands in the toilet", or "calling his Mum out at housey" (taking his Mom out for her weekly bingo night). StuRat (talk) 12:37, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Teatro Colon

At the top of the article, I'm told this theater opens in 2010. By the time I've finished reading, the article has decided I don't get to go to the theater until 2012. TripAdvisor said the theater opens May 2008. When does it open? 69.143.227.107 (talk) 05:49, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Remember, TripAdvisor is a reliable source, while Wikipedia can be edited by anyone (including you), and whatever you read should be taken with a grain of salt. When I Googled "Teatro colon closed" the first three sites all agreed that it reopens in May 2008. Since the other dates are unsourced and not backed up, I'd go with May 2008. --Ye Olde Luke (talk) 09:07, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Actually it appears wikipedia is correct in this instance. When I Googled teatro colon reopen, I found this [1] and other sources (e.g. [2]) indicating it will reopen in 2010. Evidentally it was planned to reopen in 2008 (the centenary) [3]) but they missed the date (see the IHT article). I've updated the article accordingly. Nil Einne (talk) 12:46, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Valley Of Flowers-Hemkund trek

For a 70 year old man, having undergone a spine decompression surgery in may 2007, is it advisable to visit the Valley of Flowers alongwith a tour company, sometime in August 2008?Main concern would be the trek to the the Valley of Flowers and also the trek to the Sikh shrine at Hemkund Sahib, which apparently is quite difficult for an aged individual.The person in question has no other medical history except what's mentioned above. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.112.80.139 (talk) 06:10, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

I had been there once, and I can tell you that it is not a simple trek. Read 'Some things to Remember' section of Hemkund article. - manya (talk) 08:27, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

If a medical history is relevent, then you are likely asking for medical advice. Please do not ask for medical advice here; ask your medical practitioner. Wikipedians who have done the trek may know jow hard it was for them or others, but are constrained from commenting on how a specific medical condition could affect, or be affected by, the trials of the trek. ៛ Bielle (talk) 17:53, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

The Indian National Anthem

I have read a lot about India's flag rules and about the national anthem, "Jana Gana Mana", but I have found nothing about it that i wanted. I read somewhere that it must be 52 seconds long. Can you confirm to me if it is unlawful to sing it for longer or shorter than 52 seconds? thank you, Balaji.s —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.96.60.134 (talk) 11:12, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

According to our article, Jana Gana Mana, it only lasts 52 seconds. It isn't unlawful to sing it for longer or shorter than 52 seconds, but the song only lasts 52 at the correct speed, though I suppose you could slow it down.--Serviam (talk) 12:52, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

When we sing it at school, (yes, I'm an Indian, so this is perhaps more authentic) it's usually about 40 seconds, because we are generally in a hurry to get it over with. ^_^ Aanusha Ghosh (talk) 12:09, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Really, you mean they don't have music for you to sing it to? Nil Einne (talk) 14:35, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

No. All of us sing it together, standing under the bright sun in the school-field. I've studied in three different schools so far, and it's the same thing everywhere. Just the song, no accompanying music.What do you do at yours??Aanusha Ghosh (talk) 17:34, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

In many countries school students do not regularly sing national anthems together. In my school in the UK many years ago we used to. We used to sing at school assembly in the school hall and a teacher would play an accompaniment on the piano. It was usually raining outdoors. Itsmejudith (talk) 22:38, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

In Canada, and maybe the US (not sure), most schools dictate that students stand SILENTLY when the anthem is played. I think there is even a book called Nothing but the Thuth by Avi that pokes fun at this, where a student was admonished for humming to the anthem and the incident snowballed into a national scandal. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.240.203.201 (talk) 16:34, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Re Aanusha: Hmm okay. In Malaysia we always had music, well unless the PA system was broken, at least in all the schools I know of. Admitedly this was in a urban location and we were in the assembly area which was usually paved and partially intended for the purpose. Obviously this prevented us singer faster then we should (we sometimes it happened but we would always be regulated somewhat by the music and were liable to get in trouble if we were way too fast). A rural location I suspect would be different. Re: Itsmejudith, yes I believe this is currently the case in Australia and also in NZ [4]) (well in both places some schools sing, but there is no requirement for government schools as such). Personally I've never understood the opposition to it that I see when people propose it. (I'm not denying too much patriotism is a bad thing or suggesting that it's not a sure-fire way to ensure love.) Nil Einne (talk) 02:27, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Odd question

This is a very random question, but does anyone know if bare butt is considered pornography or age-restricted in the U.S., or is it just run of the mill "art" now? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 139.76.224.67 (talk) 14:53, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Well you can be sure that buttocks not "private parts in terms of indecent exposure in North Carolina. A bit of a specific example perhaps. But I'd guess that it's not considered pornography. You can wear a thong on the beach and not be arrested or be subject to "age-restricted viewing" (as far as I know). Fribbler (talk) 15:43, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

It depends on the context in which the bare butt is seen. A painting, photograph or statue in an art gallery is art. A brief appearence in a movie rarely merits more than a PG-13 certificate. Mooning passers-by from your car is offensive to many. A butt covered in syrup in the pages of Hustler is pornography. And the water filled barrel in your yard is a completely innocent use of the word butt. Astronaut (talk) 17:29, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Okay, let me be more specific. The picture was a small picture. It was almost entirely taken up by the female's butt. I have no idea what the rest of her looked like. The picture was at a site that is definitely not a pornographic site. The site discusses sports, etc. They do have pictures of other attracive women, but they are clothed. In the picture you see the girl's bum and her panties are down almost all the way (you can't see her anus or vagina). Is this considered pornography or just a racy image? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 139.76.64.67 (talk) 18:15, 13 June 2008

Whether it is pornography or not depends on your community standards. From my liberal, european POV, I think it just sounds a little racy; but I can also see the feminist argument that the particular image might only serve to degrade women or to titillate, especially as it shows only the butt in a provocative way and is in the context of a sports oriented website. However, even if I think it's just a little racy, I certainly wouldn't show it to a preacher, my mother or anyone under 18. Astronaut (talk) 20:14, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

giraffe

Do giraffes make a sound? If so what does it sound like. RoyalOrleans 15:52, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Not the noisiest of animals by any stretch. Here's some info. Fribbler (talk) 16:00, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Agreed that giraffes don't make much noise, but when I saw some in Tanzania (Africa), I heard one of them sort of grunt, maybe because he/she was uncomfortable with how close my vehicle had come. Marco polo (talk) 16:16, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks ref desk peeps. RoyalOrleans 16:29, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm sure a giraffe would make a noise if you stretched it-a sort of sluppp noise :) Lemon martini (talk) 18:45, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Life expectancy of running shoes and flip-flops

What do you think is the average life expectancy of running shoes and flip-flops before they are thrown out by most people? I know it depends on the use, but what do you think it would be on average? From what most people say, I think it would be 1 year for flipflops and 2-3 for running shoes. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.30.202.29 (talk) 17:06, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Dunno about the actual numbers, but I would have put flipflops and running shoes the other way round to you. Flipflops can last for ages, being worn only for a short time in the summer and not for anything particularly strenuous at that. Running shoes would be used regularly (if someone has gone as far as buying dedicated running shoes, presumably they do it fairly often) and are put under considerable load while they're in use. Worn running shoes can be bad for joints etc, so they'd need to be replaced. 81.187.153.189 (talk) 17:57, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

I suspect it depends a lot on how they are manufactured. I believe that--like most products--shoes are designed these days to wear out very quickly (see planned obsolescence), though I don't have any real authoritative sources to base that on. Heh. My dad had a homemade pair of sandals he built from car tires that he wore very often and that literally lasted him decades. --Prestidigitator (talk) 18:14, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

It also depends on where in the world you are wearing them. The answer from 81.187 presupposes a climate with seasonal differences strong enough that a change in footwear is required. In Puerto Rico, for example, I wore through a pair of flip flops in about 4 months, and I didn't wear them to work. Running shoes (the high-end ones), in a northern climate, do last me a year, but I drive more than I walk. If they get wet in winter because I failed to change to boots, and the wet is full of salt, then the runners may last only months. My "sea shoes" that I used for walking in the water in Australia (old-fashioned, white canvas with rubber soles) came apart in less than 6 weeks. There are too many variables to come up with an average that is anything more than purely arithmetic. ៛ Bielle (talk) 20:16, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

One place where I worked used to spread sand in the parking lot for traction in winter, and I noticed my shoes wore out far quicker then. StuRat (talk) 23:13, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

This question may be complicated by the fact that many people probably retire shoes before they cease to be functional. The old shoes may go "out of fashion", the person may buy better shoes, or the old ones may just get ugly (salt stains, for example). StuRat (talk) 23:16, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

This is personal experience from a decade ago, but when I started playing tennis in high school, I was wearing Payless tennis shoes, and after going through 2 pairs in 2 months (the treads disappeared from a large portion of the soles), I went ahead and paid like $70 for a pair of Nike's, which lasted me a year with the same amount of activity. So which shoes also have a huge impact, imo. --Wirbelwindヴィルヴェルヴィント (talk) 01:33, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Most-inclusive foreign-language Wikipedia

I know that the German wikipedia is a lot less inclusive than the English version. Are there any foreign language Wikipedias that are more inclusive than the English version? Zagalejo^^^ 17:19, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm not sure I understand your meaning of "inclusiveness", but the English Wikipedia has the most articles, by quite a margin. Here's the complete list, with the number of articles and other stats. Matt Deres (talk) 18:12, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

By "inclusiveness", I'm referring to the general attitude of the site members towards borderline-notable topics. Sorry, I wasn't clear. I know the English version has the most articles, but I'm wondering if there's another version out there which would be more willing to keep articles on, say, fictional characters, grade schools, minor league athletes, etc. Zagalejo^^^ 18:39, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, I had a feeling I was missing the point. I don't think there's a reliable way to give a general answer to that, if only because everyone's idea of borderline-notable will be different. Do we really need an article on every postmaster general? We're very close to having one for every PG for the US, UK, and Canada; how important is, say, Allen Bristol Aylesworth compared to Spider-man or Steve Dalkowski? There are people who would say he was the least notable of the three, but I'm sure there are other folks who'd rank either of the other two as last. To satisfy your own curiosity, I suppose you could pick a topic that was at least cross-cultural (like cryptids or species of louse) and see which Wikis have the most articles of that subject.

The reason I gave you the first link is that, in a way, the gross number of articles is the only way to get an actual measure of inclusiveness. However you want to define notability, you'd have to agree that the more articles you have, the greater the number will be that are borderline. Matt Deres (talk) 13:14, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Indeed, I have noticed that in some cases where English articles have been deleted, they continue to exist in foreign language Wikipedias. I suppose this is due to the fewer numbers of users and administrators. Less law and order, if you will. Also when a featured English article on which a featured foreign language article is based loses its featured status, the foreign language one will remain unchecked. Maybe if you compiled some ratios of users/administrators/articles/pages/edits, you might find what you are looking for. That would be a complicated task though. --Russoc4 (talk) 00:06, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

It could mean less law and order; or it could mean less zealotry. -- JackofOz (talk) 22:31, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Book/Reading statistics

I was wondering if anyone knew of a webpage which provided a great number of statistics about books and/or reading (and may have included statistics on many other topics). Many of them were not of the normal sort, an example being percentage of people who thought their life warrented a biography. It had quite a large number of statistics and a few Google searches have not returned any promising leads.--droptone (talk) 18:51, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

http://www.humorwriters.org/startlingstats.html ? --Russoc4 (talk) 00:00, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Nope. I found that one with the basic Google searches and it isn't what I was looking for. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Droptone (talk • contribs) 16:51, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Try reading The Cartoon Guide to Statistics! It's the best book ever, because it's so funny! It's my third "The Cartoon Guide..." book! My first one was about Chemistry; my second one was about Environment. Soon, I could read The Cartoon Guide to the Universe. 76.228.104.189 (talk) 03:41, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

autumn blaze maple tree and sugar maple tree problems

Have one 3" of each tree typed above. Autumn blaze is showing light red leaves already in early June and Sugar maple also showing some stress. Both planted late last fall in back yard. Should I wait to see if they decline further and is it possible to prune now? thanks24.1.236.248 (talk) 19:57, 13 June 2008 (UTC)Ŵ

Possible to prune? Yes. Would you want to? Not sure. --Ye Olde Luke (talk) 22:59, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

3" as in 3 inches? What is there to prune? If you mean 3 feet then I would still be hesitant about pruning. You think they are stressed, maybe trying to correct the cause of the stress would be helpful. Richard Avery (talk) 06:16, 14 June 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Richard Avery (talk • contribs) 06:15, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

What would you hope to gain by pruning? If the trees are showing signs of stress, surely the last thing they need is more stress - pruning now would reduce the tree's ability to make food and so further reduce its ability to overcome its problems. Matt Deres (talk) 13:22, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

What are the signs of stress you're talking about? Julia Rossi (talk) 08:14, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

June 14

Top Flutes

Which company is considered to be the "Steinway" or "Stradivarius of Western concert flutes"? Acceptable (talk) 00:23, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

I honestly don't think there is "one" company in the flute world. Here are some brands and top classical players of the Western concert flute who play them.

• Muramatsu Flutes (James Galway, Trudy Kane, Aurèle Nicolet, and Amy Porter)
• Yamaha (Irena Grafenauer, Joshua Smith, Christian Larde, Massimo Mercelli, Philippe Bernold, and Dieter Flury).
• Brannen Brothers (Timothy Hutchins, Paula Robison, András Adorján , Bart Feller, and Mark Sparks)
• Powell Flutes (Robert Aitken, Maxence Larrieu, Elaine Shaffer, William Morris Kincaid, James Pellerite, Keith Underwood, Robert Langevin, Mathieu Dufour, and Anne Zentner)

Jean-Pierre Rampal, one of the greatest flute players ever, performed on an instrument made by the William S. Haynes Flute Company. It was modeled after the famous 18 carat golden flute made by Louis Esprit Lot (1807-1896) which Rampal had been using from 1948-1958.

Note that a number of players use a headjoint manufactured by a different company (most frequently by LaFin, but also by Oleg, David Williams, Drelinger, Albert Cooper, and others) ---Sluzzelin talk 07:40, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

A standing joke in the flautist community: If you use a Powell head joint on a Haynes body, or vice versa, you will get either a Pain or a Howl. -Arch dude (talk) 02:29, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Another golf question

So I'm watching round 2 of the U.S. Open tonight. The majority of the players played hole 18 (a par 5 with a deadly water hazard) as their final hole. However, Tiger Woods and Phil Mickelson played hole 9 (which, to my eyes, looked much less challenging) as their final hole of the night. I believe the announcers referred to it as their "second 9." Now, this just doesn't seem fair. Can someone please explain?--The Fat Man Who Never Came Back (talk) 01:46, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

To speed up a round, starting holes are staggered. Presumably Woods and Mickelson began on the back nine (10-18) and finished on the front nine. Regardless, all golfers play all 18 holes. After the cut is made, play shifts to all golfers playing 1-18 in the usual sequence. — Lomn 03:59, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Pigs doing weird stuff

About a week ago, I was watching this show on TV about TV bloopers, and I saw one where a reporter was at a farm. It showed two really huge pigs in the background, and the larger one that was black got on top of the pink one's back in a very clumsy manner because it was so fat. I'm not sure what it was trying to do, maybe tackle the other pig or something. Anyways, the cameraman started laughing, and the reporter turned around and saw it, and she started laughing too. I don't know why they were laughing, to me it just looked kind of weird but not very funny. Am I missing something here? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 로그인 계정 만들기 (talk • contribs) 02:56, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

yes, my young innocent, they were Piggybacking. Mhicaoidh (talk) 03:54, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

In other words, they were mating. StuRat (talk) 05:11, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Not necessarily, The one underneath may have been blind and the one on top was guiding it towards the food. (after Noel Coward) Richard Avery (talk) 06:10, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

The version I heard, using dogs, was "Well, Jimmy, the dog on the bottom was just tired, so the dog on top decided to help by pushing her home". StuRat (talk)

No, the fat piggy was being the bridge, and the one underneath was playing trolls. --Karenjc 19:52, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Origin of Word

Where does the word "alphabet" origin from. Is is from Alpha and Beta, the first two Greek letters, or from Aleph and Beit, the first two Arabic letters?? 117.194.225.38 (talk) 05:44, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

The former appears to be correct. [5][6] Rockpocket 06:44, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

This is taken directly from the article Alphabet:

"The word "alphabet" came into Middle English from the Late Latin word Alphabetum, which in turn originated in the Ancient Greek Alphabetos, from alpha and beta, the first two letters of the Greek alphabet. Alpha and beta in turn came from the first two letters of the Phoenician alphabet, and meant ox and house respectively."

So, the English word "alphabet" came from a Latin word, which came from a Greek word, which came from alpha and beta. So, in a roundabout way, "alphabet" did come from "alpha" and "beta." --Ye Olde Luke (talk) 07:12, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

But, the English word "alphabet" came from a Latin word, which came from a Greek word, which came from alpha and beta, which came from aleph and beit, so in a roundabout way it can be either the former or the latter, depending on how far back your analysis goes. -- JackofOz (talk) 22:22, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

But it's unlikely to be "Arabic" in any case, it's older than Arabic. Phoenician is not a bad stab, but they probably precede that language too. Something Semitic in origin would be a half decent guess. --Dweller (talk) 20:37, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Umm...

[7] Which WA is it referring to, Washington State or Western Australia? Interactive Fiction Expert/Talk to me 10:50, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Did you notice that the website is Australian? Adam Bishop (talk) 11:30, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

How to activate NNM on my nokia?

[[8]]====>After seeing this I'm very interested to activate that feature on my nokia 3310. Plz tell me what should i type on my keypad or what shud I do with my phone to activate that feature....Infact I didn't Understood what is that feature & how is it useful for? So plz tell me more abt that feature & how to activate it on my phone? Plz giv me in detail How to activate....Temuzion (talk) 11:11, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

The article is shit, but appears to have a number of useful links. Is there anything they didn't answer? Nil Einne (talk) 12:34, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

I didn't got satisfactory answer.....First I want to activate it on my phone that's all! now plz tell me how to do it? 1st what is that feature? Temuzion (talk) 06:31, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Have you tried shouting louder? Mhicaoidh (talk) 11:10, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Removing Bloodstains

Is it possible to completely remove bloodstains from asphalt (blacktop) paving? If so, does the removal process change the color of the asphalt, even slightly? RAhicks (talk) 13:47, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

If it's crimescene the police may be able they may be able to point you in the right direction now that they're done with it. In any case particularly if it's human blood, you might want to refer to a professional as you also want to make sure you adequetly disinfect Nil Einne (talk) 14:33, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Scrub the stain with Coca cola to clean it off (Yes, that actually does work), then rinse down with water. This might stain it a bit if you leave the coke too long, but if you rince it fairly quick with water you'll be fine.--Serviam (talk) 16:12, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

[9] Suggests wiping with a sponge or cloth soaked in warm or cool soapy water. You might consult professional crime scene cleaners: [10] . Edison (talk) 04:28, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

When I was in the cadets, an Army medic teaching us first aid mentioned in passing that when washing large amounts of blood out of one's clothing (as you do) it's best not to start with hot water as this "cooks" the blood into place rather than rinsing it away. 81.187.153.189 (talk) 21:24, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

And for small amounts of blood, few things are as effective as spit. There's a specific agent present in saliva which helps, but I forget the name. 77.44.13.145 (talk) 10:49, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Alternating DC questions

In the US, the District of Columbia was set up for the location of the capital, Washington, so that it wouldn't be placed in any existing state. The concern was, that if they put it in an existing state, like Virginia, then that state would have disproportional power. So, my questions are:

1) Have any other nations done something similar ?

2) If not, how have they dealt with the concern that the state/province/region housing the capital may gain disproportional power ? StuRat (talk) 14:57, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Many other federations have a distinct territory that is not a state that is home to the capital. For example, Malaysia has 3 Federal Territories of Malaysia, the first set up for the capital, the second is an offshore banking facility and the third set up as a new administrative capital in an effort to reduce congestion in the current capital (amongst other things). Similarly Australia have the Australian Capital Territory. India set up (admitedly only in 1991) the National Capital Territory of Delhi which has always been one of the seven Union Territory (although our article claims, unsourced, it is one the way to statehood). Obviously for non-federations, without states, this isn't so much of an issue. However Wellington was made the capital of New Zealand partially due to concerns the distance of Auckland from the South Island (not entirely the same thing but some similar concerns perhaps Nil Einne (talk) 15:45, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

It was for similar concerns. At the time Wellington was made capital, NZ had provincial governments, similar to those still operating in Canada - also at the time the country's economic power was all in the southern South Island, due to the Otago Gold Rush. Grutness...wha? 00:55, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Another is the Distrito Federal in Brazil, which is occupied only by the capital, Brasília. Deor (talk) 19:57, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

The ACT is physically inside New South Wales, although administratively and legally separate from it. The Constitution came up with a solution to the rivalry between Sydney and Melbourne, by specifying the seat of government was to be at least 100 miles from Sydney, but still within the borders of NSW. The payback was that, until such time as the capital Canberra was built, the parliament would meet in Melbourne, which it did for the first 27 years of federation. -- JackofOz (talk) 22:15, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Alternating DC sounds like a contradiction in terms, electrically speaking. Edison (talk) 04:19, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

I think it was an intended pun. -- Meni Rosenfeld (talk) 12:33, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Yes, I find it's easier to recall the titles I give questions if I make a pun out of them. And, if somebody gets a charge out of them, all the better. StuRat (talk) 13:53, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Watt are you saying? That's revolting! (Oh, m aybe I shouldn't've said that, for fear I'd be resisted.) --Anonymous, 22:22 UTC, June 16, 2008.

Well it's the same thing for the Federal Territory of Kuala Lumpur and of Putrajaya although KL is part of the Klang Valley and isn't exactly far from most of the key centres of the Selangor state. (Kuala Lumpur wasn't built for the purpose, it was seperated from Selangor after the establishment of Malaysia, Putrajaya was however purpose built.) Similarly Putrajaya is next to Cyberjaya and a number of other key areas of Selangor. In Malaysia, at least traditionally there hasn't I think been as much concern or rivalry between the states (at least after Singapore was kicked out), the greatest concern has probably been about the dominance of West or Peninsular Malaysia by East Malaysia (part of Borneo) and there are a number of safeguards there (for example, immigration controls) which were put in place upon the formation of Malaysia. I believe (although I'm not really sure) that Labuan was formed partially for that reason Nil Einne (talk) 02:01, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Mexico and Venezuela also have separate federal districts coextensive with their capital cities. Corvus cornix_talk 21:04, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Mexico City disagrees: "The Federal District is coextensive with Mexico City: both are governed by a single institution and are constitutionally considered to be the same entity". --jpgordon^∇∆∇∆ 01:00, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Um, I think that agrees with what I said. Corvus cornix_talk 02:03, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Brain fart on my part. --jpgordon^∇∆∇∆ 13:17, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Most federations have a separate entity for the capital city. Canada is unique in that Ottawa is in Ontario. But while Canadians sometimes fret about the power of Ontario, that's because Toronto is there, not because Ottawa is. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 23:56, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Are cell phones making it impossible to turn the camera shutter sound off?

I just bought one (Toshiba) and couldn't turn it off. I don't get it. Who would want a loud sound every time you take a pic? GoingOnTracks (talk) 17:57, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Yes, that is annoying. On my old Sony Ericsson K750i, I could switch the phone to silent mode and the camera would be silent too. My new K850i however, keeps the camera sound on no matter what - I can however modify the sound to be a more discrete "tennis ball" sound. If you want it to be totally silent, there are some sites on the internet which give info about flashing the phone's memory, but at the price of potentially invalidating the warranty or permanently breaking your phone. As to why phone makers are doing this, perhpas it's something to do with privacy concerns or copyright issues in galleries, theatres, etc. Astronaut (talk) 18:14, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Toshiba make cell phones? I didn't know that. Perhaps they're not available in Europe. Astronaut (talk) 18:33, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Yes, it does. see. The thing with flashing the phone's memory seems like too dangerous. The phone is brand new. Anyway, I am not trying to make upskirt pics of schoolgirls, so for me is just annoying, but no deal breaker. GoingOnTracks (talk) 19:31, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

For a workaround, how about putting your thumb over the speaker holes when you snap a pic ? StuRat (talk) 00:04, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Or for another workaround, does the phone allow you to save sounds and use them for various actions? If so, you could record a "blank" sound and assign that to the shutter noise. By "blank" I mean just recording a half second or so of just ambient noise. In a quiet enough room, the sound file won't be very loud when recorded. So when taking the picture in a relatively noisier place, the sound will just go unheard. Dismas|^(talk) 02:44, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Perhaps you could use a small sample of 4′33″?

Atlant (talk) 13:56, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

This is indeed quite common, and as Astronaut suggested it's due to concerns about people taking surreptitious photos in changing rooms and the like. I'm not certain, but I have a feeling that in some parts of the world it's required by law. Then, of course, it's easier to add the mandated feature to all devices rather than making special models for those countries, and the rest of us get it to. 81.187.153.189 (talk) 21:21, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

I've read that in Japan it is mandatory. You know, all that old men were taking pics under the skirt of schoolgirls in the subway. They have to do something against it. GoingOnTracks (talk) 15:51, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Greatest Mexican

Who do you think was the greatest mexican of the 20th century? and also who is the greatest mexican scientist of the 20th century? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.170.104.24 (talk) 21:42, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Regarding your second question, Mario J. Molina is the only Mexican to have won a Nobel prize in a Science (Alfonso García Robles won the Peace Prize and Octavio Paz won the Literature Prize). Rockpocket 21:50, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Though such speculation is widely frowned upon at the Reference Desk, for the first question you could make a pretty good case for Frida Kahlo. Or her husband, for that matter. Grutness...wha? 00:47, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Or even Emiliano Zapata depending on what you consider of the 20th century and what you consider great. GoingOnTracks (talk) 02:34, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Though it is difficult to argue with a Nobel prize, Luis E. Miramontes is the first name mentioned in the article on combined oral contraceptive pill, which in turn often appears in lists of "the most significant invention of the 20th century". Since this is also an opinion question, and 'cause I can, I will add Consuelo Velázquez, who, at the age of fifteen, wrote one of the catchiest and most successful tunes of 20th century popular music. ---Sluzzelin talk 03:14, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Well in that case, 'cause I can, I will submit Mil Máscaras. Greatness is in the eye of the beholder sometimes, and Mil is way, way up there on my list. Mitchell k dwyer (talk) 07:49, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

My pick is Luis Barragán for Mexican architects, though Octavio Paz is a fave as well. Plus Frida who seems to have long range fame, since people tend to say, Diego who? but Frida's a different story. |:-) Julia Rossi (talk) 07:01, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

What is a prostitute?

Is it fair to call a woman a prostitute if she earns no money from a relationship, but demands/expects that her partner earns/has money? GoingOnTracks (talk) 22:59, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Whether it is fair or not is a matter of opinion. Our article on Prostitution explains the various meanings of the term. Technically, your scenario probably doesn't fall under those. I would suggest a more common pejorative term would be Gold Digger (the song of the same name explains why). Rockpocket 23:18, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

I wouldn't call such woman "gold diggers" if they are not trying to earn money from the relationship. It looks much more like a form of classism to me. Perhaps internalized classism. I wouldn't call that prostitution. And probably it is not fair to call a woman a prostitute just because you think she is one. 217.168.0.245 (talk) 23:34, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

If the woman contributes nothing but sex to the relationship, and expects money in return, and also has sex with others, then I'd call her a prostitute. However, money is only one way to contribute to a relationship. Housekeeping, raising children, hosting parties, etc., are other ways which women have traditionally contributed. StuRat (talk) 00:01, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

I agree with StuRat. It all depends on how this relationship is constructed. Is it a win/win situation? Is she leeching the partner? Consider that all this extra contributions (raising children, housekeeping, ...) don't bring money directly but also have an economical value. (there is certainly some scholar who analyzed the value of this kind of non-retributed services). Prostitution is normally the exchange money-sex or privileges-sex. In a healthy relationship is much more involved, beyond this simple exchange, something is being built. 217.168.0.245 (talk) 00:11, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

On the other side of the coin, so to speak, the OP might also be interested in the term Sugar Daddy. Dismas|^(talk) 02:38, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

I can't see how it could possibly be fair to call such a woman a prostitute. Zain Ebrahim (talk) 12:24, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

I think that is exactly the point. The OP has never said that the woman had any commercial interest in the relationship. Just that she prefers men with at least some property/income. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.6.118.85 (talk) 15:26, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Not a prostitute. Sounds like a description of 1950's US values - wife at home, and husband the bread winner. Women sought men who could provide, and men were expected to provide for their families. Things have changed since then in general, but still there are plenty of couple who conform to this older model.Mattnad (talk) 17:25, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

June 15

College

Can anyone give what they think is the single most invaluable tip reguarding searching for and applying for colleges and univeristies? --hello, i'm a member | talk to me! 06:13, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

I don't know if this question is appropriate for the Reference Desk, but this high school teacher has watched hundreds of students march off to college, and my best advice is this: Look for the kind of school that's right for you and don't try to be the student who's right for some school. Look past the familiar names of schools, and instead look at yourself. What kind of student are you? What environments have you thrived in, and what environments have you struggled in? The first question I'd ask myself about any school is whether or not the school is looking for someone like you. Mitchell k dwyer (talk) 07:47, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

That blows away my answer of looking for colleges where the student population is 90% the opposite sex. :-) StuRat (talk) 13:49, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Well, the thing is I don't know really which envioronments I've thrived or struggled in mostly because I've thirved and struggled in all of them, if you know what I mean. --hello, i'm a member | talk to me! 16:48, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Good evening. All though Mitchel K's advice is wonderful advice. As a high school student myself I have to look into college. I understand where you come from hello I'm a User. A lot of my environments that I go to I struggle because I am not a group person. I work independently and I don't get along with other people. What I would have to do when looking at a college is not only the environment, but what kind of person and what kind of work would I want to do. Because I am not a group person I would look for a program or course that I know won't have group projects. So not only do you have to look into environment, what kind of people, what environment you survive, and what environment you struggle, but you also have to look into what you want to do, what the school is going to provide you as person, and what are your goals. Certain schools will not help you complete the goals you want to complete. I hope I have helped. Have a positively wonderful evening.Rem Nightfall (talk) 20:57, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Money. My third child is starting college in the fall. As with the other two, we told her to apply to any public colleges in our state (Virginia) or schools that cost less than 1.5 times as much, or to any other schools if she had a compelling reason to spend more money, but she would need to apply for student loans for them. You can get a really great education and a really great college experience and most big colleges. If you can graduate debt-free, your life after college will be a lot easier. (Incidentally, she is going to McGill.) To lower your stress levels, apply to at least two "safety" schools that are certain to accept you. Apply to about four schools that you would really like to go to and that you have a good chance for acceptance. Apply to as many "stretch" schools as you want, but don't get your hopes up. Your best bet is to talk with current students at your candidate schools to get a feeling for the culture. Guidance counselors can tell you about your chances of getting accepted, but only current or recent students can tell you how it feels. -Arch dude (talk) 02:17, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

You can check out the culture at open days if that's convenient for you. You might prefer research-based subjects to a coursework style for example, or the reverse if you like a lot of structure – it depends on the field you want to go into. And though some people say just get in anywhere, you can transfer later, here in Oz, it's easier to transfer down than up (e.g. metropolitan college to provincial than the reverse) though there are exceptions. Best, Julia Rossi (talk) 06:49, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Single most important fact: In the real world, employers don't care much where you went to school or what your GPA was. They care about experience above all. So find a school that has good internship, co-op or work placement programs in your field, either directly connected with the school or in the surrounding area. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 23:48, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Give Me The Facts of the Yellow Summer Squeeze

Good evening. I was drinking some lemonade and then it came to me. A question and a thought. Why is lemonade considered a summer drink? What makes lemonade a summer drink? Why does everyone drink lemonade when it's hot outside? I drink lemonade summer and winter because I love lemonade. I love lemons. I am a lemon head. But back to the topic. Where in history has it made lemonade a summer drink? Thank you for answering my question. I really appreciate it.Rem Nightfall (talk) 07:13, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Who says it's a summer drink? It's just a drink. And not everyone drinks it. But people in countries with hot summers are more likely to consume cold drinks at that time to help them cool down and replace lost fluid.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 08:17, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

And, historically (before refrigeration and dehydration), fruit juices and drinks would only be consumed when that fruit was ripe. I'm guessing that lemons were ripe in the summer, versus apples in the fall. Now we can get any fruit juice year round, due to technology and importing them from the southern Hemisphere, where they have summer during our winter. StuRat (talk) 13:46, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Companies say it's a summer drink. I mean when I look for the powdered lemonade like Country Time or some other powdered lemonade I can only find it during the summer. Just like I only find powdered tea in the summer time as well. And if I do find powdered lemonade during the winter it's more expensive then what it would be in the summer same thing with powdered tea. I guess my question is more related to the powdered lemonade.Rem Nightfall (talk) 20:04, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

The main reason companies market "Seasonal" itams like that is to earn more money. It gives them an excuse to up the prices in the summer, since everyone wants it, and in the winter, since they can claim that it's less likely to be bought, and therefore should cost more. Same with other products, like diamonds. Who planted the idea that diamonds are highly romantic Valentine's Day presents? The diamond companies! --Ye Olde Luke (talk) 20:13, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

I have learned two new things about companies at this very moment. Companies like money and companies like to lie for money. I am not sure that is true, but it's what I infer. Would that mean that powdered lemonade is over priced?Rem Nightfall (talk) 21:02, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Dude, anything that you pay for that you could have made for free with a lemon tree and a juicer is overpriced. But if you mean in comparison to other consumer porducts, no, I'd say that companies charge the same rates for lemonade (proportionally) as they do for everything else. Lemonade is probably not high on their money-making radar, and therefore relatively safe from artificially inflated prices. (For an example of artificially inflated prices, see gasoline.) --Ye Olde Luke (talk) 00:05, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

The cost of the packaging exceeds the cost of the ingredients, I can guarantee that! --Danh, 70.59.115.72 (talk) 00:00, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

As a fruit of warm climates, it figures, but it's also used in hot drinks with honey for a sore throat, though it's not called lemonade then. Julia Rossi (talk) 02:55, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

The First Peoples Millionaire

I am a over 50s British born and bred gent. If a million people (or more) send me 1 English pound (or more) will it make me the first ever 'Peoples Millionaire'? Has this been done before? In return I would lavish in a wee bit of luxury which sadly has been lacking since birth. How many people do you think would participate in this unique venture? Tonic Love (talk) 13:26, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

It's not that original of an idea. See chain letter. Dismas|^(talk) 14:30, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, but it is only unusual in that it has been updated. My mother (died last year at 94) used to say if everyone in England gave her a penny...~~DT —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.9.214.164 (talk) 14:50, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

The lottery has been doing this for hundreds of years. Well, almost this. At least, people pay a pound and then a lot of money gets given to someone. Although it wasn't with anywhere near as much money until very recently.HS7 (talk) 18:45, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Have a read of The Million Dollar Homepage. Which was a clever idea, but pretty much a one off. Rockpocket 05:26, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

I used to work for a guy who besides a legitimate business did this sort of scam as well.He ended up in jail.hotclaws 03:17, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Mr Mugabe

Is it just me or do Zimbabwe's President Mugabe's eyes look blue/grey? --124.254.77.148 (talk) 14:47, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

I...guess so. With the pic on Wikipedia it's kinda hard to make out. (But oh boy can you zoom in with it!) --Ye Olde Luke (talk) 20:17, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

His eye color can be whatever you imagine them to be. Eye color, hair color, skin pigment, it is all really what we perceive it to be. It is the color that we see through the prism of light. Anyway, yes you can super zoom into that picture. You can see every living wrinkle on his face, but he looks a little sad. Then again that is what I perceive from the picture. Hope I have helped or started a fight. Have a positively wonderful evening.Rem Nightfall (talk) 21:11, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Mugabe is a man of years. And people generally lose about 15% of their eye pigmentation over their lives. Though for brown eyed people (all sub-saharan africans), this reduction is nowhere near enough to change the colour of the eyes. You may have spotted a case of uveitis that was undiagnosed. Maybe his optician was afraid to tell him (lest he "dissappear") :-) Fribbler (talk) 23:03, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Maybe no-one mentioned cataracts for the same reason. Or they did! X-\ Julia Rossi (talk) 02:50, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Rail Interoperation

Hi. Does anyone know why it is that rail service interoperation between different rail companies only seems to occur in Japan and not in any other countries. Thanks in advance. Tbo ¹⁵⁷(talk) 16:48, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

The UK has different companies operating on the same network too. Fribbler (talk) 17:42, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Canada too. Adam Bishop (talk) 18:44, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

So its possible to travel on 3 different lines, maintained by different companies, on the same train without chainging in Canada? For example in Japan, a train managed by company A could run through onto tracks managed by company B. At that point all operationswitche to company B and the only thing in common with the 2 services is that they use the same train. In the UK, I think the whole network is managed by network rail and TOCs bid for diagrams. Thanks. Tbo ¹⁵⁷(talk) 19:23, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Operation of the train does not switch over as the train moves between tracks. VIA Rail is the only national train service, and there are some regional ones like AMT. VIA I have seen on CN-owned tracks, and the AMT article explains that that AMT operates exclusively on other company's tracks. While they are still operated by the companies that own the trains, they doubtless work with the company that owns the tracks to ensure everything goes smoothly. 206.126.170.20 (talk) 22:50, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Under that definition, the U.S. Amtrak would qualify as it usually runs on other companies' tracks - sometimes into another country. I think we need to clarify what the question is. Rmhermen (talk) 23:34, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Kirtland Arkansas 1868

An ancestor is said to be buried in Kirtland Arkansas in 1868. I cannot find anyone who knows where or if Kirtland existed. It is supposed to be just over the border of Barry Co. Mo. His name was Pleasant Henry Trower. Was there ever such a community, and where can I find it's history? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.2.145.63 (talk) 17:32, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Good evening. Could this help www.shawhan.com/Trower/RR01/RR01_003.HTML - 16k. Hope I have helped.Rem Nightfall (talk) 21:06, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Could it be Kirkland, Arkansas? There appears to be a Kirkland in Ouachita County. Corvus cornix_talk 21:12, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Paint Fumes

Hey My mom's painting in our house...and there's some paint fumes. The house is pretty small...and if I'm here, will I be okay?? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.23.67.226 (talk) 19:27, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Good day. You should be fine if you have a few windows open to let the fumes escape out of the house. I hope I have helped. Have a positively wonderful day.Rem Nightfall (talk) 20:01, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Unless you die of paint fumes. Just kidding. --Ye Olde Luke (talk) 20:18, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

If it's just ordinary household paint, I wouldn't worry - especially since it's presumably a one-off. Except with seriously nasty stuff, it's only if you're using it day in, day out (ie for work) that you need to worry. The smell can be annoying, though - I have heard (though not tried it myself) that cutting an onion in half and putting it in the room will reduce it. 81.187.153.189 (talk) 21:15, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Do leave the windows open overnight and if you get a headache go out and breathe some fresh air. Next time there is painting to be done, try and get your mother to choose a paint with a lower level of volatile organic compounds, for example a mineral paint rather than emulsion. It is better for the wider environment as well as the environment in the house. Itsmejudith (talk) 22:24, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Now what was that policy about "no medical advice" again? I'd say telling someone that "you should be fine if you have a few windows open to let the fumes escape" pretty clearly violates the spirit, if not the letter of that rule. Especially since we have no way of telling what kind of fumes they are (since the original poster didn't even specify the type of paint) or how much of them there might be. Personally, I'd say the only safe advice we can give is that if you know there are fumes, and especially if you can smell them, you shouldn't stay there any longer than you have to. It's possible that the fumes might not be harmful — but it's also possible that they could be, and there's no way anyone on the Internet can tell you for sure. —Ilmari Karonen (talk) 22:35, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

So...are you saying to assume the worst? That if there is any type of paint that could concivably be fatal in this situation, then we should assume it is applicable and prepare the poster for the worst? --Ye Olde Luke (talk) 23:56, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Look, paint fumes probably won't kill you, but they're not pleasant and they'll give you a nasty headache. At the very least keep the windows open. If you can, find somewhere else to spend the day. Just don't spend any more time around the fumes than you have to, okay? And if you have any pets, make sure they're outside. That includes mini aquariums or anything that shares the same air supply you do (even if it's an animal that breathes underwater). Your critters may be more susceptible than you are. -Aletheia —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.104.139.75 (talk) 04:09, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

I think it sad that the OP did not appear to have any concern for his mother's safety, nor, more pertinently, had he seemed to bother to read the paint tin label which would have informed him of the possible risk - or more likely - lack of. Richard Avery (talk) 07:15, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

And how heartwarming to notice that nobody else worries about your mom who keeps her nose in close proximity to a fumingly hot paint brush dipped in Dulux psychedelic maryjane green emulsion. The diligent lady is probably high enough to paint the ceiling without the aid of a ladder, yodelling "Legalise it" and splattering polka dots around whilst you are submerged in the bath tub wearing scuba gear and oxygen tanks to ensure your olfactory survival.

But wait, is your mum the querent below with anosmia who asks a seminal question? --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 07:51, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Don't know what effect the fumes will have on you, but to cut down the smell, place saucers of milk with half a peeled onion in them, at various places in your house 195.188.254.82 (talk) 12:46, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Cats

How are they able to land on their feet after falling from high hights 9/10 times? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.101.1.186 (talk) 21:15, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

I guess they're just agile and have a good sense of balance. There are slow-motion videos and picture-sequences of falling cats in which one can see them actively twisting their bodies into a feet-downwards position. 81.187.153.189 (talk) 21:26, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Good evening. We have a cat article you may like to read. I believe the cats can jump from such height places has to do with their spinal cord and leg bones. But I think you should trust the cat article more then inaccurate guessing. I hope I have helped. Have a wonderful evening.Rem Nightfall (talk) 21:25, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

It may not be entirely true that most cats who jump multiple stories survive. Remember that the non-surviving cats rarely get taken to the vet. My friend the vet tech says she sees cats injured in falls from balconies pretty regularly. -FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 21:49, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Yes, though also realize that your friend, the vet tech, doesn't see any of the cats that survive such falls without any injury at all. So, her perception is one sided. Dismas|^(talk) 04:02, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Their tails help them balance. Their bodies are built for jumping, so they know how to land. They weren't designed to fall several stories per se, but their body structure is designed for balance and proper weight distribution. The human body absolutely isn't built for it, and we don't have instinctual knowledge of the "right" way to fall and most of us have never learned (bend your knees if it's a short jump and you're landing on your feet; falling from a height, don't even try to land on your feet, just protect your head and neck). Also, for the cat, some practice enters into it. A year ago my family's little Snowbell was a tiny kitten and she was very clumsy so it was a good thing she never got up very far. Now she climbs everything, but she's done enough falling in the past to have achieved graceful mastery. - Aletheia —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.104.139.75 (talk) 03:59, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

If a cat always lands on it's feet and toast always lands butter-side down, how would a cat with butter spread on it's back land when I push him off the table ? StuRat (talk) 04:48, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

StuRat, are you just shilling for this article: Buttered cat paradox? WHAAOE!

Atlant (talk) 13:52, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Wow, Wikipedia even has articles on jokes that I pilfer. I see I need to use more original material. (That joke was a bit stale, perhaps even rancid, hardly "the cat's meow".) :-) StuRat (talk) 14:24, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Here is a little slide show that demonstrates how cats do it - it's a trick involving a flexible body, a low terminal velocity, and conservation of angular momentum. Karl Kruszelnicki (Dr Karl) has written about it in one of his books, where he quotes a New York vetinary hospital study that showed that cats falling from 7 floors were highly unlikely to survive, whereas those falling from over 11 got away with mostly minor injuries, thanks to this trick. Confusing Manifestation(Say hi!) 07:10, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Isn't the reason for this IIRC that one cats approach their terminal velocity, they relax more since they don't sense the acceleration hence are more likely to survive? Ergo ~ 7 floors is the worst Nil Einne (talk) 02:34, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

June 16

Football (soccer) boots

What is the difference between firm ground and soft ground boots? It seems pretty logical, I know, but firm ground boots also have studs which I don't think would be very good for playing on concrete for example. So what exactly is the difference between these two types? --212.120.247.132 (talk) 03:56, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Well i'm guessing this is another way of differentiating between moulded-studs and screw-in studs? If so then the difference I found is that moulded studs give slightly less grip in anything but perfect conditions, but that normal studs are less effective in really dry/hard-soil because they don't dig in as well and so you get less grip. All original research but throughout my life as a football-mad-child (now man) I have always preferred 'proper' football boots compared to moulded ones. Also you can often get away with moulded-boots on Astro-turf pitches, but can't wear proper studs on them (at least not in the leagues I play in). 194.221.133.226 (talk) 08:34, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

These days, boots with moulded studs, often referred to in the UK as "blades", and best for hard surfaces like astroturf are commonly used by professional players playing on grass, even when it's soft underfoot. It usually prompts grizzled commentators on TV and radio to moan about the player's choice of footwear when he slides over conceeding/missing a vital opportunity. On concrete, I think most people would opt for regular trainers ("sneakers", I think?) with decent treads, rather than any kind of studs. --Dweller (talk) 20:34, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Yacht without a ladder

I'm working on a novel in which the climax takes place on board a yacht, or at least I would like it to. My protagonist, Denise, is persuaded by the antagonist (let's call her BG for Bad Guy) to go for a swim in the ocean. At some point, either because BG pulls back or cuts the rope ladder or there never was a rope ladder in the first place, Denise realizes there's no way for her to get back on board the yacht. They're too far out for Denise to swim to shore, as BG's intention all along was to leave her to drown. My question is: how can Denise survive this? If possible, I'd like her to have some sort of underwater struggle and get back onboard the yacht. - Aletheia James—Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.104.139.75 (talk) 04:23, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

How about if BG brings the boat back to run her over and finish her, but she dives underwater, grabs some big pieces of seaweed, wraps them around the prop, and thus causes it to seize up ? Then she climbs up the prop and outboard engine into the boat. StuRat (talk) 04:42, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Older yachts had an overhanging stern, hard to climb up or mount an outboard on. Modern yachts sometimes have a square transom with an outboard and ladder, others have a well: very easy to get into. Even motor boats with a square transom and inboard engine often have a couple of projecting trim tabs you could grab and clamber up. I like the seaweed though, more inventive and dramatic. For the movie I'm sure they would substitute her bikini top... Mhicaoidh (talk) 05:08, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Hmmmm . . . not a bad idea. Denise might be clinging to the fragment of the rope ladder, if BG cuts it off while she's trying to climb back up, so maybe she could use that too. I think I'll have to find someone who actually owns a yacht who can give me a little tour and show me what exactly would or wouldn't be climbable, but I'll definitely consider that stopping-the-propeller-from-under-the-boat idea. Oh yeah - brownie points to Mhicaoidh for thinkin' I'll get a movie deal!  :) - Aletheia James —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.104.139.75 (talk) 05:58, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

This is actually a well known urban marine (?) story based on several occurrences of finding empty yachts drifting with bloody scratches all around the hull caused by the panicking swimmers as they desperately try to get back on board. So that goes to show that it is indeed very hard to get back on board a sailing boat when there is no ladder. I assume your boat is not at anchor as that would just be too easy. It cannot really be under way either as Denise would be left behind in a matter of second (in this case she would have to grab something as she falls but still holding on to a rope while in the water and the boat under way is just impossible - try it). Anyway, so the boat must be stopped but not at anchor. I'm sorry I have to dismiss the 'use the propeller as a first step to go back on board' as this is too unrealistic. If you swim by even a small 30 feet sailboat, you will hardly be able to touch the prop with the tip of your toes without having your head under the water. This said there are various 'classic' ways she might be able to get back on board. First at various places on the hull she will find evacuation holes, for grey water, for the engine cooling system, for water evacuation from the anchor pit etc. These would be very hard to use to get back on board but she might break a few nails trying it. Now any rope that might be hanging from the boat can be used to haul herself up. The thing is that any noise she would make would spread through the hull and the assailant would hear it. One solution could be to have the sails flapping in the wind (very noisy). This would inevitably send part of the forward sails rope into the water, at about mid point between the sail and the cockpit. As she grabs it it would pull the sail closer to the wind which would fill it and pull her enough to give her additional help getting back on board. I'm afraid these are not very original ideas but definitely realistic. I think if you are serious about your book you should definitely research this yourself by asking a boat owner to take you for a try out at sea. Or you could rent one with a skipper for a day, or even just an afternoon. My two cents, and good luck with the book. 200.127.59.151 (talk) 18:05, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Bah humbug. What kind of story is that? BG and G meet up on yatch. BG decides to kill G. Not entirely original here in the idea department either. Then the most cliche thing BG and G go swimming BG cuts ladder or rope. What kind of story is this? Yeah you'll probably get a movie deal because they like cliche like this. Why don't you look at your story again and think of a more original idea? I'm just saying your idea needs a little work.

Always

Cardinal Raven

Cardinal Raven (talk) 20:00, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

... --Wirbelwindヴィルヴェルヴィント (talk) 21:05, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

I think you misunderstood the question. The OP was asking about a specific factual detail, not for your critique of her idea. -FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 21:26, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Okay my last answer was a bit rude without helping. I'm sorry. If you want to get the lady cut off the yatch rope maybe you should watch a show called Mythbusters. They did something similar to that and it should help you. I hope. Now I can't remember the episode number, but you should watch. Especially if have many other ideas like propelling a dude off the roof with a handmade jet pack. Mythbusters should help, let just hope.

Always

Cardinal Raven

Cardinal Raven (talk) 21:54, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Thank you FisherQueen. I'm well aware that the idea is rather cliched. My novel is a psychological thriller, not an action adventure. I'm hoping the originality will be in the dialogue, thought processes, and relationships, not the occasional action sequence. My reason for wanting this particular type of climax, which will require extra research for me when I know so little about boating lore, is for irony considering necessary elements of the plot and as a sort of subtle tribute to a couple of my favorite movies. Thanks for recommending Mythbusters, Cardinal Raven - I'll see if I can track that one down. I've seen a few episodes and they are always quite enlightening and entertaining. - Aletheia James —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.104.139.75 (talk) 18:03, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

The movie/book Dead Calm might give you some ideas.hotclaws 03:21, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Smell

Hello, I have a quick question, that's probably pretty unusual. I have Anosmia, which means I can't smell anything. It's hereditary so I've actually never smelled anything in my life. And I'm just wondering, does semen have a smell? Is it distinct and recognizable? Thanks. 76.8.208.7 (talk) 04:24, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

To the first, yes. It's fairly light though. To the second, I don't know as I've never happened upon an instance when I've said "What's that smell?" and have it be followed by "Semen." in order to compare the two. Dismas|^(talk) 04:50, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Semen smell is pretty distinctive. Its often described as smelling like laundry rooms, swimming pools or hospitals. This is because semen contains pentamethylenediamine (also known as cadaverine, a decarboxylation product of the amino acid lysine), spermine and spermidine. These compounds all smell a bit like bleach or ammonia, which are found in the aforementioned places. Rockpocket 05:10, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Which explains why it stings if it gets into your eyes (don't ask ..). -- JackofOz (talk) 08:55, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

TMI, Jack, T-M-I. Zain Ebrahim (talk) 12:10, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

There was a bit on The Office where a stripper is entertaining the office crowd and sitting on the dopey manager's lap, and he comments innocently, "You smell nice. Like Tide".  :) --Sean 13:53, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Hard to imagine a situation when you WOULD be exposed to enough semen to be able to smell it distinctly, without already knowing what it was that you were smelling. And frankly, I'm not sure that's something I want to imagine. - Aletheia —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.104.139.75 (talk) 05:54, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

You've presumably never tried to clean a teenaged son's bedroom, then. Grutness...wha? 02:23, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

i take that you are not a man then Aletheia, as we come (snigger, snigger) across the situation all the time 195.188.254.82 (talk) 12:38, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Yes, I'm a woman. And happy to say I have never been confused by the smell of my own bodily fluids. - Aletheia —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.104.139.75 (talk) 16:58, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Urban national borders

You can cross a national border inside Rome, by entering the Vatican City. You used to be able to cross a national border (albeit with some trouble) in Berlin. Are there any other places where there is an urban national border? Perhaps a wikilist? 130.56.65.24 (talk) 05:28, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

I can think of a bunch just in Ontario/Michigan and Ontario/New York (Detroit/Windsor, Sarnia/Port Huron, Niagara Falls, numerous other places along the Niagara River and the St. Lawrence. But I get the impression I have misunderstood the question...do you mean a border entirely contained within a city? Adam Bishop (talk) 07:24, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

The Canadian/U.S. border divides a town on the Vermont/Quebec border in half. Even splits a factory in half. Can't remember the name of the town off the top of my head though... Dismas|^(talk) 08:52, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Dismas may be thinking of Rock Island and Derby Line.

There are several places on the US/Mexico border with urban land on both sides, such as San Diego / Tijuana. Basel in Switzerland has suburbs in both France and Germany; Geneva has suburbs in France. The capitals of the two countries called Congo face each other across the Congo River. And then of course there's Monaco, which is perhaps most like the Vatican situation: pretty much the whole country is urban and the urban area extends beyond its borders into France. --Anonymous, 09:02 UTC, June 16, 2008.

Derby Line, Vermont is it. I had just Googled it because I couldn't think of it. Thanks, Anon. Dismas|^(talk) 09:04, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Border town is worth checking out for a list of such places. Grutness...wha? 11:54, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Nicosia in Cyprus is still a divided city. Fribbler (talk) 11:57, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

I once read about a bar on the US/Canada border where the line was marked with a stripe on the floor. If you were 18-20 years of age, you had to cross to the Canada side to be of age to order a beer. --Sean 13:55, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

For a couple more examples, we have Jerusalem divided between Israel and Palestine and Sault Ste. Marie, Michigan/Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario divided between the US and Canada. StuRat (talk) 14:13, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

To be fair, it should be noted that many of the cities nominally on the U.S./Canada border are separated by significant bodies of water. The two Niagara Falls are divided by the Niagara River and (unsurprisingly) Niagara Falls. Detroit and Windsor sit on opposite sides of the Detroit River. Sarnia and Port Huron have the St. Clair River between them, while the two Sault Ste. Maries face each other across the St. Marys River. And of those cities, I would only categorize Detroit as a major center (its population is about one million people). Windsor is the second-largest city on this list with a population of about two hundred thousand; all the other cities have fewer – often quite a bit fewer – than a hundred thousand residents. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 15:14, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Border between Belgium and the Netherlands

The Schengen Agreement page has some photos of international borders in urban places (which due to the agreement are open borders now). One photo to the right here. Another shows the border going through a building. Another is in a urban environment. Pfly (talk) 18:20, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Many thanks for your answers. Yes I was after specifically places where the national border runs through an urban area (such as along a particular street (thus border town is just what I want). The US-Canada border is a relatively obvious one, but my US geography is sketchy (I'm Australian - we don't have any land borders). I have decided I must go to some of these places - it's an eccentricity of mine. Steewi (talk) 01:27, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Then you must hit Nicosia, Mostar and Berlin (even if it isn't divided now, the mentality remains. Fribbler (talk) 01:31, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

For anyone still following, I just found divided cities, a list of cities in the situation I described (and thanks Fribbler). Steewi (talk) 02:17, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

nightmares and irrational fears

I keep having these bad dreams that Margaret Thatcher blames me for her resignation and downfall and has set Norman Tebbitt on me, and this 1980's band called the Flying Pickets want me to appear in their new video. It's got so bad that I won't go down to my local Sainsbury's as I'm afraid of who I'm going to bump into. How can I quell these nightmares? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Freller Mellon (talk • contribs) 09:46, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

best thing to do is to try to work out why those particular images keep occurring in your dreams. What are your feelings about Thatcher's downfall? Of the song "Only you"? Or - perhaps more realistically, consider the term "flying picket" and the Thatcher years. Are you somehow subconsciously worried about worker/boss relations? If you can try to make some sense of the dream, it quite often makes it less likely to recur. Mind you, considering that last night I dreamt that my name was Robbie Robertson (and had to keep telling people "no, not the guitarist") and that I was trying to enrol at a college in Israel during an air raid, who am I to talk? Grutness...wha? 12:00, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

I don't agree with Grunt. The most simple thing is to take control of your dreams. You only dream what you want to dream. If this is a true nightmare you shouldn't even have to think about it. You should just dream what you want. When you close your eyes think of something. A white pony with magical wings. That is the image that should pop up. Just think of what you want to dream. Take control of your dreams and don't let your dreams take control of you.

Always

Cardinal Raven

Cardinal Raven (talk) 20:04, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

"Grunt"??? Please check my username before you ruin it! And "you only dream what you want to dream" is completely wrong unless you lucid dream all the time, which is exceptionally rare. Grutness...wha? 01:06, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Hi. Yes, but that doesn't always work. Especially if it's a vivid nightmare, the setting is often difficult to control. Also see lucid dreaming, but most nightmares are unlikely to be lucid. Thanks. ~AH1^(TCU) 21:25, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

In a article in a magazine I believe was called Science News a scientist had talked about how our dreams affect each other. That certain dreams reflect reality and others are just mere fantasies. Certain nightmares can be controlled by the thought of another fantasy or want, or just another dream.(Most of my dreams are lucid so if I dream something I don't want to I change it.)But some people can't do that. You can train yourself to though. Anyway I just wanted to add another opportunity or another idea of controlling a dream.

Always

Cardinal Raven

Cardinal Raven (talk) 22:00, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Very few people can do that, and training yourself to be able to is very tricky, to say the least. A major problem is being aware that you are dreaming while you are dreaming, which is often not possible, even when the elements of the dream seem preposterous to our awake minds. Yes, if you can do that it's a fine method, but for most people it's not practical. In any case, trying to deal with the underlying cause is a far better long term solution than simply trying to avoid the dream (which is most likely a symptom of some other worries). Grutness...wha? 01:06, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Learning to have lucid dreams may help, but it's not easy (being highly aware of your dreams is a good first step, though) and even those of us who are lucid dreamers rarely have complete control of every dream. However, sometimes just knowing you're dreaming, even if you have trouble changing what's going on, can be very comforting. (If you ARE able to control your dream in whole or in part, you're in for a fantastic experience!) For dealing with your nightmares here and now, though, do try to understand what they're telling you. Also, think about any changes that have occurred in your body recently. Are you on any new medications, for example? Some medications can cause bizarre dreams; fortunately, this effect becomes a little less severe with time. Try falling asleep thinking of something positive and good that you'd like to dream about, or imagining the voice of someone you perceive as a benevolent authority, telling you that you will have good dreams tonight and wake up feeling refreshed and ready to start the day. (Autosuggestion is a very powerful tool.) If the nightmares persist, you may wish to seek professional help. -Aletheia —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.104.139.75 (talk) 18:13, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Vote Labour is all I can think ofhotclaws 03:25, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

stupid

People say I look like a stupid fool.Gradually even I am finding myself a one.I am a 20 yr old guy but I look childish both mentally and physically.Now I can hit the gym and look like arnie but what about my mental configuration.Like a child I am still attracted to all the bling bling and anything which is jazzy.On the other hand I am reluctant to leave my whole personality and start a new one.How can I start looking MACHO? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.246.173.175 (talk) 12:58, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

You don't want to leave your personality behind just because other people think it is childish; you have your tastes and your personality, and that's part of who you are. What you could do is try to develop other tastes as well, so that you can join in and blend in with other people when necessary. To do that, just try exposing yourself to a variety of things that you think the people you're trying to blend in with would find tasteful and mature. Hopefully you'll find a thing or two that you can enjoy in amongst all of this, and that will lead you to others. Then you can use these things around those people who you think you need to be more 'mature' around, and enjoy the jazzier stuff when they're not around. Also, bear in mind that there's nothing wrong with a supposedly 'childish' personality; it can bring you great pleasure in little things, and can keep your mind flexible and open. 79.66.45.237 (talk) 13:25, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Note that many would consider the desire to look macho to be immature. I also think that as many women are repulsed by a man wearing gold chains over his hairy chest with the shirt open to the waist as are attracted by this image. StuRat (talk) 14:01, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

I am over 70 and still am being told I am childish. But only by those who feel they are adults and so responsible for others' actions. Nosey parkers and do-gooders in other words. Do try not to grow up. And I looked so young that I still got into the cinema at half-price when I was 26. So don't worry. Life is good if you don't take it too seriously.90.9.87.150 (talk) 14:12, 16 June 2008 (UTC)DT

Good day. The other at top gave you some nice advice. I will try to follow in their footsteps. Another thing you should see that might be considered immature is listening to what people say. And letting their words control your life. What I mean is that they call you "stupid" and "childish" you let those comments make you change who you are. Never listen to people like that. You are right for you. They are right for them. I'm right for myself. You have to be happy with who you are and not let others control who you are. Now that doesn't mean you can't change aspects of your personality you don't like. It means you don't change for anyone else accept yourself. I hope I have helped and I hope that my words will be taken in consideration. Have a positively wonderful day.Rem Nightfall (talk) 16:30, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Irritation and frustration

I am irritated by many things.I am irritated about superpower america dominating on less powerful nations.I am frustrated about arrogant people who are both good looking and smart.I am irritated abut hollywood which portrays americans as impeccable and people of other countries as pure rouges.I am frustrated abut hypocritical people who are leading rich lives. I am irritated because we are not good as we think so.The list is endless and so is my misery.Please help me feel happy about something. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.246.173.175 (talk) 13:21, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Options:

1)Find a happy news story, although you'll have to watch which news source you use as there can be severe values dissonance. Try here or here perhaps.

2)Find something you can do about one of the things that irritates you, whether it's campaigning for political change, awareness raising, charity work, making your own film that portrays the world as you see it, etc. Then repeat whatever version of the serenity prayer helps you (the sentiment is good, no matter what you think of prayer itself

The US only tries to control nations which pose a threat to the US or other nations. You will find very little US attempt to control Tuvalo, for example. Also consider the altenatives. If the Soviet Union had developed nuclear weapons first, they no doubt would have carried out their stated plan to conquer the world for communism. Or, if neither side had nuclear weapons, the Soviet Union would have continued on to conquer Western Europe as well as Eastern Europe. The US, on the other hand, didn't use them to conquer any nation after Japan (which, of course, posed a severe threat to the US during WW2). The US then gave Japan independence. We may soon end up with a world dominated by China, whose pro-genocide stance in Darfur, Sudan and Myanmar/Burma, occupation of Tibet, support for the rogue nation of North Korea, desire to conquer Taiwan, and abysmal ecological record will make the world into a much worse place. StuRat (talk) 13:50, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Sturat, I would suggest that that comment is unlikely to be helpful and is likely to feed into some of the very things the person finds irritating. I would also suggest that any replies which attempt to rebut Sturat's points above are likely to lead to political debate on the desks. Perhaps Stu could extend an invitation to his talk page for anyone who is tempted to engage in political debate? 79.66.45.237 (talk) 14:07, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Sure, debate is always welcome there. StuRat (talk) 14:19, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Try getting up before dawn one summer's morning. Sit quietly in the garden and watch, with wonder, how another lovely day begins.90.9.87.150 (talk) 14:09, 16 June 2008 (UTC)petitmichel

Firstly try reading some balanaced political media rather than the moralistic stuff that many channels pump out (both sides over-simplify their arguemnts and over-state the benefits/pitfalls of their idea compared to their opponents). Secondly be slow to judge people, states or situations - rarely do people make sound judgements - the story is always more complex than you imagine it to be. Remember this - both sides in a war think they are fighting fo the just-cause, history usually decides which we consider to have been the most just. Finally - don't let bad news get you down. It's everywhere, all the time but so is good news. Unfortunately the story of a man helping save the life of 10 people in country Y isn't going to get the coverage that a man shooting 10 people in country Z will. Remember good things happen every day. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.221.133.226 (talk) 14:46, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

I feel your pain, OP - oh wait, do you hate the phrase "I feel your pain" as much as I do? Anyways, I'm irritated and frustrated by the same things you are. My suggestions to make you happy? Take a break from worrying about the cares of the world and do something purely for fun. Cultivate your spirituality (even if it's just to get in touch with your own better self). Break the mold of arrogance and hypocrisy, and do something generous and loving for someone else. And if possible, go to your local animal shelter and adopt a dog, and you'll never be wanting for joy, love, and laughter in your life again, no matter how idiotic humanity gets. - Aletheia —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.104.139.75 (talk) 17:11, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Troll bridge question

If someone demands money in exchange for passage on a bridge, road, etc., and is not legally entitled to do so, what crime have they committed ? StuRat (talk) 14:29, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

My first thought was that it would be a form of extortion, but I'm not finding any good sources to back that up... --Onorem♠Dil 14:36, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Here's an article where it's described as extortion. I wouldn't doubt that there's still a more specific term though. --Onorem♠Dil 14:40, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

It is not necessarily extortion. If the payee believes that the toll is legal, and the receiver acts to appear that it is legal, it would be deceit. 80.58.205.37 (talk) 15:13, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

If the person they're demanding money from actually gives them the money, under false pretenses, that certainly qualifies as con artistry. Call it deceit, call it swindling, call it whatever you want - they've committed theft. - Aletheia —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.104.139.75 (talk) 17:02, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

But I still want to know what the legal charge against them would be. Does "extortion" still apply if there is no threat against the victim other than blocking their path ? StuRat (talk) 18:36, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Misrepresentation? Fraud? Demanding money under false pretences? Extortion? Impersonation for the purposes of defrauding members of the public? I'm sure they could find something that would stick. Exxolon (talk) 18:52, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

The precise charges on the indictment will depend on the jurisdiction. Offences like fraud, extortion, and theft will have slightly different definitions in different places; it's also possible that the crime might fit under several different statutes. Some jurisdictions may even have specific offences enshrined in law along the lines of "impersonating an agent of the FooNational Freeway System". TenOfAllTrades(talk) 19:22, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Trolls are usually under the bridge anyway. Why bother paying? Matt Deres (talk) 17:52, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Surely the answer is trolling? (NB the usual punishment is starvation.) --Dweller (talk) 20:28, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Identify the Arrows

On bins, milk cartons, cans of cola - just about anywhere, I keep seeing this sign with three arrows chasing each other. What does it symbolize? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tonic Love (talk • contribs) 15:15, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Recycling. Zain Ebrahim (talk) 15:18, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Sometimes it's associated with the motto "Reduce, Reuse, Recycle." It's an all-around logo for environmental friendliness. On a milk carton, soda can, or anything else disposable, it means you can recycle it. On a bin, it means you can put your recyclables there and they'll be hauled off to a recycling plant instead of the dump. - Aletheia —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.104.139.75 (talk) 17:00, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

"On a milk carton, soda can, or anything else disposable, it means you can recycle it."
This is not always true at all. On plastics that symbol with a number in it indicates the type of plastic. However not all plastics can be recycled, and some are so difficult to recycle that most places don't bother. APL (talk) 19:38, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

In NZ, while 1-2 are recycled by most places, 1-6 are now recycled in at least some places Nil Einne (talk) 02:15, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

See Recycling symbol and, for the ones on plastics, Resin identification code. —Ilmari Karonen (talk) 21:36, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

There's a sorting section here[11]. Julia Rossi (talk) 01:26, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

iPods

Now days, almost every single MP3 players looks like a variation on the iPod's flat-rectangle-scrollwheel-under-a-square-screen, did iPod create this layout or did they copy from someone else?

No offence to Apple fans, of course :) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.240.203.201 (talk) 16:21, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

There's this (http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/art/2008/01/apple_braun_ive_rams.html) which is an interesting read about design-similarities between apple (inlcuding the iPod and most things designed by Jonathan Ives) and older-products... Infact the who classics of everyday design series has been a very enjoyable read so far (http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/art/2006/11/jonathan_glanceys_wonders_of_e.html) ny156uk (talk) 17:58, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Not sure if they copied Creative or it was just a patent fight. --Wirbelwindヴィルヴェルヴィント (talk) 20:56, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Possibilty Of Life

Here is a thought. Life cannot exist without a sustainable atmosphere, water, and oxygen. Yet, we have creatures who survive in the most complicated or extreme environments. So what is to say that no other life on other planets cannot exist? If life here has learn to cope with certain environments then why cannot life on other planets with thinner atmospheres not cope with the methane in the air. Why are we searching for another Earth? We might not be able to live in such environment, but another species might. That is why we call them aliens. They have evolved to adapt to their home. Why don't we see that as a possibility? Why do we only see as you need water and oxygen? There might be life that has learned to survive in an even more harsh environment. From what we have learned from this planet and the coping of many animals we should be able to infer something of that level. So, why don't we?

Thank You

Always

Cardinal Raven

Cardinal Raven (talk) 19:55, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Err, who says the people who study such things make all the assumptions you say they're making? You might look at extraterrestrial life and alternative biochemistry for starters. Friday (talk) 20:30, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Well most of the people who don't make those assumptions are probably not on television. Half of the documentaries I watch they say that life is not possible on the other planets because there isn't enough oxygen and water. Or it's to hot, to cold, etc.

Always

Cardinal Raven

Cardinal Raven (talk) 20:42, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

I think that those people are specifically talking about the other planets in our solar system, not all the planets in the universe. -FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 21:24, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Why would that matter? As for the stuff they say on TV, often times you'll hear people talking about "life as we know it" rather than just "life" to allow for the possibility of weird stuff we don't know about. Friday (talk) 21:27, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

) I suppose I see.Cardinal Raven (talk) 22:00, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

I often hear the requirements you listed being necessary for "life as we know it". That is, there may be other forms of life which are possible, but we don't really know. Therefore, the scientists limit conjecture to the life they do know about, which is carbon-based Earth life. You do have a valid point that this may very well cause us to skip over many other forms of life. Your question, BTW, was very good. StuRat (talk) 01:04, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

All I am saying with my question is this. If we don't look into that possibility even if we don't know much about silicon based creatures we can learn from study. If we don't look for something that could be unimaginable to us then we will never learn and may skip life. If we are only looking for planets and life forms like Earth we are only trying to find ourselves. We have to look far beyond what we know and dip ourselves into a deeper pool. We have to dive into the unknown to understand the unknown. If we never look, we'll never learn, if we never learn, we'll never understand, and if we don't understand then we don't know. The point is to know. Do I believe there is life? Yes, I believe there is life and I believe we have to open our minds and our thoughts to something beyond what we can comprehend. Because life exist, life copes, and life adapts. And these are what scientist should also consider. They should also consider the possibilities. Because possibilities can be endless, but once we understand the possibilities nothing can stop us.

Always

Cardinal Raven

Cardinal Raven (talk) 02:52, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

I agree, but scientists must make decisions based on probabilities. If they have a choice between landing a probe on Pluto or Titan, they must consider that life seems more likely on Titan. They could be wrong, of course, but that would be the best bet based on our experience with life on Earth. StuRat (talk) 03:52, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Yes, there are possibilities, and endless as you mentioned. And almost all of them are considered. See, Simulated reality for example. manya (talk) 03:56, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Well I didn't mean consideration in that sense. I mean the possibility of studying something we don't fully understand and then knowing it. That is fine and dandy, they can send a probe onto Titan and yet, they can have someone else study Pluto. Maybe what we need is an Earth alien team and a Unknown Substance Alien team. So we can study both possibilities. And understand so much more about life. And maybe the most that would come out of studying both is that we fine life. May it be primitive then us or far more intelligent then us.

Always

Cardinal Raven

Cardinal Raven (talk) 04:20, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

The problem is they only have so many resources, sending a probe to either of those places is extremely expensive and a huge undertaking, and there's only so much you can learn with telescopes. There are just too many places to look so they have to narrow the search down, and the easiest way to do that is by looking for the kinds of environments that we know can support life. 192.45.72.26 (talk) 15:12, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Philadelphia Zoo

How much does a single day, adult pass cost to the Philadelphia Zoo?--Endless Dan 20:22, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Have a look at their website: [12] Prices a plenty! Fribbler (talk) 20:28, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

I can't. I don't have access to the internet (other then Wikipedia and encyclopedia websites). --Endless Dan 20:39, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Oh, right. $17.95 in high season (march-november). It's pricey enough. But I suppose it's a full day out. Fribbler (talk) 20:42, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks! You think its pricey? I think 17.95 is a good deal. --Endless Dan 20:52, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

After looking at the equivalent price here in Ireland, it seems to be the going rate. Enjoy! Fribbler (talk) 20:57, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Silent Deskers

I'd check these reference desks fairly regularly but rarely contribute anything. I've probably read pretty much everything posted for the past six months or so. Obviously the same names frequently show up on the various boards asking and answering question and you have some names ask or answer once, not to be seen again. My question is; are there many people that frequently visit the boards but remain pretty much invisible. (Of course if there are they probably won't answer.) Just curious. Stanstaple (talk) 20:29, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

I lurked in the shadows for a long time before I started to contribute. I'd imagine there are many who just like to read the questions and answers. No way to tell how many, though, that I'm aware of. Fribbler (talk)

I was here for a few months before I finally started to contribute days ago.The Reader who Writes (talk) 20:50, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

I enjoy reading the Q&As found on the reference desk. It's actually my favorite part of Wikipedia. --Endless Dan 20:53, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

I read them all twice daily but don't have time to reply (unless I'm desperate!) JoshHolloway 20:54, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

I use to just read the questions and answers. Then I began giving answers. No one likes my answers. I find fighting myself on the reference desk. I'm not a nice person. I try to be, but I am not. I probably wasn't cut out for answering peoples questions. Its my Achilles heel sometimes. Sometimes I answer right other times I'm off. Or forget to put some source and then I get people mad at me.Cardinal Raven (talk) 22:03, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Don't beat yourself up CR. I think most people here, lurkers or not, know to assume good faith. And I wouldn't say no-one likes your answers.Stanstaple (talk) 22:34, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm the one who is making Cardinal Raven feel bad. I feel badly about it, too, but newcomers to the Reference desk won't know that his answers are almost always incorrect or incomplete, except when they're entirely opinion, and I would hate for someone to leave with a wrong answer or with a bad impression of Wikipedia. I have assumed good faith in assuming that he wants to help but just doesn't understand how to look up answers or cite sources rather than assuming that he is giving deliberately incorrect answers in order to disrupt. I've tried to be polite in asking only for him to cite sources, which I hoped would encourage him to improve his accuracy in answering, but I don't think he gets the idea of reading the question, then looking up the answer, then answering with a link to the answer. While I regret making him feel sad, I'm afraid that I'm very close to asking the community if they'd be willing to block him if he can't find a way to look questions up before answering, rather than answering with half-remembered and incompletely-understood fragments of television programs. -FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 22:46, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

FisherQueen, you are not the one making him feel bad; I've followed some of the discussion and there are other people who have asked CR to chill. Part of being part of this community means keeping its purpose on target, and when some contributors hinder that purpose, it is up to bold members of the community to do something about it. Assuming good faith, I believe CR just needs to pay attention to the way other contributors add to the discussion and learn to contribute similarly. I haven't had to say anything because you and others have said it for all of us. Mitchell k dwyer (talk) 23:56, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

User:Bibliomaniac15 introduced me to the Ref desk about two months ago. I usually answer biology stuff here but lurk mostly on the other boards unless something interests me enough to answer.--Lenticel ^(talk) 23:47, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Good evening. I was silent user as well. Hid in the shadows I did. But then I decided to answer questions.(It's like a drug.) Once you answer questions it makes you feel good. Cause you know you are going to give the person information that they will be able to use and help them. That is always a wonderful feeling. I really hope my information helps people. I try my best and I want to make the reference desk a wonderful place. I hope I am fulfilling that and making the reference desk a nice place. Cause I like it here and I like sharing information. I like learning knew things myself. Everyone on the ref desk is a wonderful persons who spends their time looking into the answers for the people with questions. That is always wonderful to know. I also edit articles from time to time. Not so much because that is.....embarrassing a little. But I edit articles and I answer questions on the ref desk because I love Wikipedia. I want to share that love by helping and helping Wiki grow. I want to help Wiki to become a better place. Now I am even more embarrass cause I wrote a whole paragraph of me just blabbering on. Well I better stop blabbering or else. I hope I have answered your question. I hope I have given good information or words that you can understand. Have a positively wonderful day.Rem Nightfall (talk) 23:55, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

"You of all people should know Terry, in your hotel, there's always someone watching."  ;-) --hydnjo talk 00:06, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

I could only imagine that many people observe the desks but do not post. Through my personal experience, I see that I registered in August 2006, but made only 4 edits between August and December. If other people are like me, they likely have cycles of activity and passiveness. My edits tend to drop sharply (usually to zero) during April (term paper month) and May (finals month), except for April 2007, when I set my personal record for most edits in a month and neglected to hand in a critical paper worth 10% of my grade. Despite making no edits in May since 2006, I know that I never stopped reading the Desk, and I was also one of the Desk lurkers. Nothing wrong with that. Freedomlinux (talk) 03:51, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm not so silent as I used to be – came out of my shell through the friendly ones and observing how people handle conflict: Steve Ummit was kind, Bibliomaniac gave me a refdesk barnstar and here i still am. I have some sympathy for Cardinal Raven since I began to understand that you have a way of expressing yourself that is more poetic/subjective than some. It's not the worst fault to have. Everyone has to find their way, so it's nice to see you are surviving all that. *blink* blink* : ) Julia Rossi (talk) 09:56, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Yep, nothing wrong with lurking but if you see an incorrect answer or a question without a decent answer and you know the right answer then you really should put the right answer in. And Cardinal, it's probably your refusal to add references to the ... er ... eccentric answers you provide. Zain Ebrahim (talk) 10:04, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Hello everyone! I'm relatively new around these parts. I've been visiting the Reference Desk for the past one month. And since I'm still just a high school student, I'm just too afraid that I'll give someone wrong information to really answer people's questions. Of course, that doesn't stop me from asking a few of my own. Have a good day! ^_^ Aanusha Ghosh (talk) 12:06, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Im here 24 7 but rarely sign my posts193.115.175.247 (talk) 12:21, 17 June 2008 (UTC)Zionist

All the things I wanted to say were already said by other people...even in this case...--Faizaguo (talk) 16:57, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

I used to edit all hours of the day possible. I've been fairly inactive for quite a while though. Maybe now I'm a "silent desker." Mac Davis (talk) 17:46, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

I read the desks often but never, ever, post there. Aww, crap. Friday (talk) 20:30, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm a silent reader of the Mathematics desk. I think the last time I posted there was over a year ago. Secretly, it's always been my favourite desk. I also read the Science desk, but rarely post there. For some reason, I hardly ever read the Computer desk, though I when I do, I kinda like it. I regularly read and post at the other four desks. ---Sluzzelin talk 00:57, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Calculating Restaurants Pars

Is there a formula to be had when calculating Restaurant pars for silverware ,glassware linen etc. Please email response to (removed email) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.183.15.60 (talk) 21:42, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Hi, I don't think anyone quite understands your question, can you rephrase it? Pars could be Persian or pairs or.... Mhicaoidh (talk) 05:12, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Is the question about par ordering and inventory making in restaurant management? PARS is a kind of costing template for calculating costs in a restaurant whether food, or other supplies – a technical term I can't decipher, except that one site explains it as " perimeter-area-ratio". *hand wagging way over head* Julia Rossi (talk) 10:21, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Progression doing bicep curls

I am 6'6", 180 lbs. From Jan. 1 - 31, I did 3 sets of 10 bicep curls for each arm (25 lbs on set 1, 30 on 2, and 25 on 3) daily. Then in February (1-15), I did the same, except 30 pounds for all sets.

Now, it's June, and I have barely worked out since. My workout now is 5 sets of 10 reps for hammer bicep curls, and the same for supinating bicep curls. I go right hammer, left hemmer, right supinating, left supinating, and repeat 4 more times. I use 25 lbs, and can do the entire workout.

My questions are: 1)how fast should I progress to higher weights? and 2) If I started this plan in mid-June, how much weight should I be doing by late August, assuming I continue? Thanks. 70.105.164.43 (talk) 22:47, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

(PS. I do other excersises, but I'm only concerned about that excersise in this question)

I'm seeing several different kinds of sources; it might help to know what your goals are- are you going for strength, health, or big bulging muscles? -FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 22:52, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Strength. 70.105.164.43 (talk) 23:05, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

You'd probably be best off asking a trainer at your local gym. The kind of exercises you should be doing will depend on a number of factors, and it's easy to injure yourself if you do them incorrectly. — QuantumEleven 09:06, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Toasty Me

Good evening. A few days ago I got sunburnt while swimming. It was red the day after and hurt really bad. Now it's made my skin is kind of dark because I am half Hispanic and half British(so white I am supposing)I get over sunburn quickly(the Hispanic part) and I just end up getting darker. Anyway my questions is this, why during the healing process of the sunburn does it itch? Normally if I got burn on a stove or something with an open flame when the burn would heal the burn would never itch. Is there something different about a sunburn then an open flame burn? Thank you for answering my question. I really appreciate it. Have a positively wonderful evening.Rem Nightfall (talk) 23:39, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

• First, the UVR causes vasodilation of the blood vessels in the skin. That's why you get red. Then, within an hour, mast cells release histamine (among other things), which make you itch. For much more detail, see the eMedicine article I'm reciting from. --jpgordon^∇∆∇∆ 00:11, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

• Also, if your skin peels, it may be itchy to encourage you to scratch off the old, dead skin. StuRat (talk) 00:52, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

• An aside here, not directly related to the question. If part of your ancestry is from the British Isles it doesn't automatically mean very pale skin. If your descent is Welsh or Irish there's a chance of slightly darker skin tones (considerably darker in parts of southern Ireland). Also, a follow-up question: if the itchiness is caused partially by the production off histamine by mast cells, would the itch be reduced by taking standard antihistamine hayfever medication? Grutness...wha? 01:13, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

• As an extra aside, my skin colour is of the Southern Irish variety. I've never burned...ever (and I lived in Laos for months). But my father (Northern Irish) burns in minutes. Fribbler (talk) 01:22, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Good evening. Thank you for all the answers I really appreciate it. I read the article very informative. On another note I never peel. I think I've peeled once in my life, but most of the time I don't peel. My skin just gets more tan. I put some Aloe Vera on it the second day that I had the sunburn. Another question why is a sunburn hot to the touch, but another kind of cut or bruise isn't hot to the touch? I read the article, but I still don't understand. Sorry. -.-Rem Nightfall (talk) 01:35, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

• It is because of vasodilation near that area. The increased blood flow in that area releases more heat.--Lenticel ^(talk) 03:40, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

June 17

What's the song in this video?

Moved to Entertainment Desk D0762 (talk) 14:20, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Gold and Water

Does gold form in water or where water once was? What is the connection between gold and water (streams) and why they always in the early days would find it in streams or around water?

It doesn't form in water, no. However, water erodes gold out of stone formations and, being fairly heavy, the gold typically doesn't go very far but stays a short distance from the source, headed downstream. So, if you find a lot of gold nuggets in a stream, you might want to look just upstream for the source. StuRat (talk) 03:45, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

From stories of prospectors and placer mining, and panning for gold, there seems some merit in what you say. See AuH₂O. Edison (talk) 03:52, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

So gold is typically in stone formations? Anythiong special about the stone formations that would make one stone create gold instead of another? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.126.131.225 (talk) 22:36, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Gold#Occurrence may assist. (Stones do not create gold. Gold is associated with certain ores). --Tagishsimon (talk) 22:47, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

The gold takes the form of veins running through rock. I believe this happens when undergound water seeps through cracks in the rock and deposits minerals along the way, including gold. So, since the gold was originally dissolved in water, there is another association between the two. Also note that ocean water contains a huge amount of gold, but there's no economic way to extract it. StuRat (talk) 02:29, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

"Wikipedia" as a FA

Can Wikipedia article be nominated as a featured article candidate? Or is there some rule which prohibits making articles about Wikimedia projects featured? 89.236.214.174 (talk) 11:12, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

If you go to Talk:Wikipedia, you will see that it is a former featured article. The reasons it was demoted didn't really have anything to do with the subject matter, just the quality of the article. -- Coneslayer (talk) 11:44, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Whoa! I'd love to see screenshot of Wikipedia main page when "Wikipedia" was featured article of the day (if it was, of course; not all FAs become "FA of today"). Like, "Today's featured article on Wikipedia is... Wikipedia" *chuckles* Thank you for response :) 89.236.214.174 (talk) 12:09, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

I know. Why don't me try and feature it again? Only joking.--Faizaguo (talk) 16:54, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Raul has said (if I recall correctly) that the Wikipedia article will never be a FA of the day as it's "navel gazing". Exxolon (talk) 19:36, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

That's a rip-off...:(...if anyone has screenshots please upload them. Thanks.:)--Faizaguo (talk) 18:36, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

what is this song??

Moved to Entertainment Desk D0762 (talk) 14:16, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

When it starts to be bullying

Where is the limit between normal peer pressure and bullying? Isn't peer pressure always present in a group? (since the group has to exist somehow). Are we so whiney about pressure/critism, that we consider any negative feedback bullying? 80.58.205.37 (talk) 12:07, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

My understanding is... peer pressure is doing something to fit in with your social-group, bullying is being forced to do something/give something to someone who is not (generally) a friend. The peer pressure is that you feel pressured to do something to 'fit in', whereas bully is usually someone basically trying to exert their power over you through intimidation - they aren't trying to convince you that the thing you are hesitant about is right (e.g. friends pushing you to try smoking may believe you'll enjoy it/it's a cool thing to do) they are just pushing/forcing you to do something to feel powerful/important. The difficultly is that bullying is a state of mind as much as a definable thing. If you feel you are being bullied (but the bully feels they are just being assertive/pushing you) then who is to decide which person is wrong? I don't believe society considers all negative feedback bullying, but as with these things it is as much tone and presentation as it is content. Constructive criticism is what people generally seek out - because that focusses on how we can improve from our position/where we can improve ny156uk (talk) 13:06, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Technically, they're non-overlapping. From Peer pressure:

"Peer pressure is a term describing the pressure exerted by a peer group in encouraging a person to change their attitude, behavior and/or morals, to conform..."

From Bullying:

"Bullying is the act of intentionally causing harm to others, through verbal harassment, physical assault, or other more subtle methods of coercion such as manipulation."

So if someone bullies you, they're not your peer. In this case, the "limit" is where your peer isn't your peer anymore. Zain Ebrahim (talk) 17:41, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Peer pressure is direct or indirect pressure to conform to certain standands of behavior, appearance, philosophy, etc., in order to fit in. It's usually spoken of in a bad light, and indeed it can be harmful (when it causes us to treat ourselves and others in ways that are unhealthy or make us feel ashamed or uncomfortable), but some degree of outside pressure is essential to our socialization as human beings. Bullying is usually direct action taken against a person for the purpose of displaying one's power over that person and lowering that person's self-esteem, and it's always harmful to the victim. Sometimes the two overlap, in the sense that people who don't fit in may be easier targets for bullying, and the insecurity they often feel about not belonging to any group may be used against them by bullies. However, the relationship is one of powerful aggressor to weak victim, not one of equals (peers). In short, peer pressure makes you want to fit in, and bullying just makes you feel bad. - Aletheia —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.104.139.75 (talk) 18:28, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Good day. As a high school student I have say that sometimes peer pressure can be bullying in itself. One time when I was in school I was ganged up by a whole group of boys. They tried to get me to put a firework in the boys toilet and flush it. I didn't, but the thing is that peer pressure and bullying can be two separate things. But sometimes they can be two same things. At least that is what I experience at my school. And my experience isn't really enough information, but I wanted to point that out. Peer pressure is good and at the same its bad. Bullying is bad, but at the same time it also is good. Bullying forced me to become a much stronger person and to change aspects of myself I didn't like. I hope I have helped. I am not sure it was that helpful, but I hope it was. Have a positively wonderful day.Rem Nightfall (talk) 18:48, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

@Rem Nightfall:No, you didn't help. Your writing is confusing and uninformative. I hope my bullying/peer pressure helps you.80.58.205.37 (talk) 11:50, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Medical term for animals who continue to grow throughout their lifetime

I was watching a TV show about fishing on the history channel. They briefly mentioned a medical term for animals who continue to grow throughout their lifetime - specifically fish fall into this category. As opposed to mammals such as humans who stop growing once they reach adulthood.

While there are certain items in species body's that may continue to grow, the overall body stops growing. For example mice and other rodents upper and lower incisors continue to grow through their life - this is not what I am looking for.

This condition of growth throughout an animals life results in huge size, for example fish over 400 lbs where normally they reach 100 lbs.

I searched through the history channel web site and have searched other sites for this topic to no avail. 132.79.7.16 (talk) 12:09, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Its called Indeterminate growth (although the article only talks about plants). Also see this D0762 (talk) 15:00, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Rebuilding of World Trade Center

Hard to tell from our article, but is Google Maps' view reasonably up to date? According to the image I saw, there's still not an awful lot to see above ground level. --Dweller (talk) 12:48, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

According to Google, "Google Maps uses the same satellite data as Google Earth. Google Earth acquires the best imagery available, most of which is approximately one to three years old." (I should probably add that to the Google Maps article, eh?) --LarryMac | Talk 16:10, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

I guess I'm asking if anyone on this page is familiar with New York... what does it look like right now? --Dweller (talk) 20:22, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

You might find Project Rebirth useful.Iiidonkeyiii (talk) 08:38, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

PGX

Does this product really help with weight loss? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.208.251.21 (talk) 17:14, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Aside from linking Polyglycoplex, the Refdesk can't give you much more unless someone finds a good review site. Zain Ebrahim (talk) 17:28, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

someone deleted an image of a mugshot done by a local police dept.

how can I protest this deletion based on:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Mugshot —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wikindeling (talk • contribs) 17:37, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

• If you disagree with a deletion you can ask for a review at WP:DRV. Exxolon (talk) 19:33, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Hunting Conterversy

Good day. I was thinking about this for a very long time. We hunt animals as a sport and for fun. So do other creatures. Sometimes predator will hunt for a sport or fun. Yet, when an animal does like cheetah we don't care. But when humans do it we do care. Why is this? Is this because we know that destruction we can cause. That when humans hunt something we will destroy a whole ecosystem. I am watching a documentary called The Making of Planet Earth and they said they were going to shoot a migration of creature that was in another BBC program in 1989, but from 1989 to 1990 the creatures had been wiped out due to hunting. Also I watched another documentary called 100 Years of Wildlife Filming and they showed men sticking ice picks into babies seal's heads. I am against hunting, but I just want to know why do we have a problem with humans hunting for sport, but not other animals, such as cheetah, who hunt for sport? Thank you for answering my question. I really appreciate it. Have a positively wonderful day.Rem Nightfall (talk) 18:32, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

What supports your contention that cheetahs or other animals hunt for sport? I understand that to be confined to humans. — Lomn 18:40, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

I don't know necessarily if other animals hunt for fun or sport. Because the information seems a little weird. I had watched a predator documentary and they said that a mountain lion wasn't hungry and was just chasing the rabbit for fun. But that seems weird. How do we know if the animal was hungry or not? We can't switch our stomachs to the cat stomach. So I really don't know if other animals hunt for fun or sport. Do other animals hunt for fun or sport?Rem Nightfall (talk) 18:53, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Do neither of you own cats?

House-cats often hunt for the 'fun' of it. A well fed house-cat typically will make no effort to eat the animals it's killed. Sometimes ignoring them as soon as they're dead or sometimes presenting them (as gifts?) to humans, etc. My old cat used to catch mice with its claws retracted, carry the uninjured mouse to the middle of a large room and then release it, only to catch it again right before it reached safety. (This would repeat until either the mouse was injured, or until the mouse finally won this game and escaped.) I have no cites for any of this, as it's all original research, but It seems reasonable to assume that house cats hunt mice for the same reason humans enjoy violent video games; an instinctive joy of killing. APL (talk) 19:32, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

To answer the original question: most people assume that, contrary to humans, animals do not have a lot of free will. A lion hunting a rabbit, whether for food or for fun, merely follows its instincts; a human who hunts makes a conscious decision to do so; and it is this decision that we may find morally acceptable or not. DAVID ŠENEK 19:46, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

I own a cat, but he never gives me presents. He likes to lay on may lap and sleep on me for hours at time. Which usually means I can't get off my chair for a while. He eats spiders. He eats them in front me. I just watch the spiders leg wiggle as he feeds the spider in his mouth one bite a time. Back on topic: To David Šenek: But you could say the same things about humans. We are just following our instinct to kill. Not naturally our instinct to survive, but to kill. Cause I'm sure we have that instinct. I'm against hunting because I watched that documentary 100 Years of Wildlife filming when they showed me baby seals, not adult, baby seals be hunted with ice picks. Ice picks in their little heads and they dragged the bodies across the snow. The snow was covered baby seal blood. I cried for the seals. I also watched a show on the Animal Planet about animal emotions. It showed a herd of elephants mourning a dead member of the pack. I am against hunting because after watching that documentary of animal emotions it awakened my eyes to the fact that animals do feel. I could just imagine that elephant as a human mother crying for her dead baby. Its sad. I would never be able to pick up a gun and hunt a creature for sport or for fun. It has nothing to do with the moral of a decision, for me at least. For me its emotional an response and I don't why either.Rem Nightfall (talk) 19:57, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

It was not my intention to deny that humans have instincts, but unlike animals we have the ability to exercise (some) control over those instincts, or act against them - even in very extreme ways, for example when people starve themselves or live a life of celibacy. The fact that you personally couldn't kill animals for fun may be a purely emotional response. But I do believe that the fact that, more generally, we judge people who kill animals for fun differently than we judge animals who do the same thing (the original question), is an issue of morality - and therefore of free will. DAVID ŠENEK 21:16, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

I wasn't trying to fight with you or try to have you infer that I was saying you deny that humans have instinct as well. I was trying to add the fact that humans have instincts. Some people don't realize that and do try to deny that. There are certain groups who try to deny, well more or less control humans instincts. As human beings we do have more control over our instincts and we have a responsibility to this world and the life that exist on this planet.Rem Nightfall (talk) 22:09, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

First, about cats. They certainly do the "catch and release and catch again" thing with mice and birds. It seems like torture, but may help to sharpen their hunting skills. They may not need those skills, if their food is provided by humans, but the instinct doesn't just turn off. We had a bird loose in the house once that the cat dragged in and released (that was fun !). I suppose it's similar with humans who hunt. They may never need that skill, but maybe if society collapses some day they will need it, who knows. Now, some arguments against hunting:

1) Unrestricted hunting, as noted, can wipe out entire species.

2) People tend to hunt for "the best" examples of each species. Killing those leaves the "not so good" individuals to reproduce and can thus weaken the species.

3) There are those who feel that causing pain and death in animals, when not necessary for survival, is wrong.

4) People get killed in hunting accidents.

5) In countries with gun control, allowing rifles for hunting increases the liklihood of homicide. StuRat (talk) 02:17, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

First *glares at cat* you never do anything except sleep and eat spiders...oh there was that one time you ate a mouse. Second, Can we call all five of you arguments the Big Five. Cause I'm sure that is the reason most people dislike hunting.Rem Nightfall (talk) 02:58, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

To be balanced, lets provide some good reasons for hunting.

1) Balanced and sensible hunting helps reduce overpopulation of certain species

2) Hunting is a form of controlling or removing pests, accidentally inroduced species, and those whose natural predators are somehow missing

3) Hunting is a way of providing food in a sustainable way, without the problems associated with farming

4) Hunting remains the most productive way of obtaining some forms of food (eg fishing)

5) Sensibly managed hunting is a natural and organic method of using the earth's resources. Meat is eaten, and hunted fur (eg possum: I don't mean tiger!) is natural, biodgradable, warm, sustainable, breathable (etc etc) and compares favourably with polar fleece and other artifical plastic based fabrics which are not biodegradable and have manufacturing issues (cost, pollution etc)

6) Successful hunting requires sensible, respectful and intelligent use of firearms and other weapons, which is a healthy attitude

7) Hunting is an energetic, outdoor activity which inspires the individual with a respect for food. Food should not be an easy-won commodity, scoffed in excess by lazy individuals.

Like most issues, there is no simple or correct answer. Gwinva (talk) 03:03, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Trivia!

Does anyone know any good general trivia sites online? Was going to "Trivia Cafe" but the questions are kind of weak; hoping someone knew of a better site to kill time with Trivia at? Thanks in advance! 38.112.225.84 (talk) 18:58, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Do you mean a repository of trivia, or a site with quizzes on trivia? Fribbler (talk) 23:22, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Umm, repository? "Quizzes on trivia" - that sounds a little too Meta for me....I'm just trying to get some good questions to ask co-workers during downtime :) 38.112.225.84 (talk) 16:17, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Holocaust

What did the germans have to say for themselves after the war. were they ashamed of what they had done? how do they feel about it now? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.18.33.2 (talk) 19:05, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

• The articles linked to from Holocaust#Aftermath_and_historiography would be a good place to start. Exxolon (talk) 19:31, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

(ec)In answer to the first part of your question, according to the Denazification article:

Despite [Allied] campaigns support for Nazism and genocide among German population continued to exist in certain degree [after the war].

• A majority in the years 1945-49 believed National Socialism to have been a good idea, badly applied.
• In 1946 60% of Germans said the Nuremberg trials had been unfair.
• In 1946 37% in the U.S. occupation zone said about the Holocaust that "the extermination of the Jews and Poles and other non-Aryans was necessary for the security of Germans".
• In 1946 1 in 3 in the U.S. occupation zone said that Jews should not have the same rights as those belonging to the Aryan race
• In 1950 1 in 3 said the Nuremberg trials had been unfair.
• In 1952 37% said Germany was better off without the Jews.
• In 1952 25% had a good opinion of Hitler. Stanstaple (talk) 19:38, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

In present-day Germany racism and other Nazi-like ideas are an "elephant in the room" situation. Not many Germans will defend Nazi ideas, but many believe they are fair. 80.58.205.37 (talk) 11:54, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Please give us some referenced data for claims of this kind. I am not German, but read and watch a lot of German media, have lived in Germany, and am in private and professional contact with Germans on daily basis. I disagree with unqualified statements such as "many believe they [Nazi ideas] are fair". ---Sluzzelin talk 14:59, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Where I agree is that the Nazi-past has indeed been an elephantine burden in political discourse during the decades of Germany's Vergangenheitsbewältigung, and that pointing out Germany's own suffering or accusing others of committing atrocities were seen as tu quoque attempts to deflect from Nazi Germany's own crimes and deemed "politically incorrect" (though that term didn't exist at the time). See also an earlier question here. ---Sluzzelin talk 15:28, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Do tanks have ignition keys?

According to the Shawn Nelson article, he broke into three different tanks because the first two would not start. Do tanks require a key to start the engine? Did they just leave the keys in the ignition? -- MacAddct  1984 ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:14, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

The article states "Armory officials said that only a few people are given keys to the vehicles", so I guess that's yes to the first question and, probably, no to the second. --Tagishsimon (talk) 20:17, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Ah, I should have been less lazy and read the whole article. Maybe that explains why he couldn't start the first two tanks, because he was only able to get a key to the third? A "huge lapse in security" seems to describe the situation well. -- MacAddct  1984 ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:37, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

I don't know about tanks, but the M109 howitzer does not have an ignition key. However, the doors to the vehicle (including the sliding one to the driver's chamber) are typically locked with simple padlocks when not supervised - the mentioned keys could be referring to those. -- Meni Rosenfeld (talk) 20:41, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

I spent ten years in the Army and no military pattern vehicle I encountered, including jeeps, tanks, and armoured personnel carriers, had ignition keys. They all had push button starters. This kind of makes sense - there's is little more embarassing than missing the big attack (or perhaps a more retrograde motion) because you can't find the keys to the car.

To prevent theft, vehicles were padlocked as appropriate (i.e., drivers hatch on a tank, steering wheel on a jeep, etc.)

Given the amount of maintenance a lot of these vehicles require, it wouldn't surprise me if the two tanks that didn't start... just didn't start. - Eron^Talk 21:11, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

I guess it depends on the army. The AIL Storm does have an ignition key. -- Meni Rosenfeld (talk) 21:33, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Oh, and it could also be that he was so nervous he messed up the ignition sequence. I know of an officer who forgot how to operate his own firearm when it counted. -- Meni Rosenfeld (talk) 21:38, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

We certainly had some vehicles that had ignition keys, but they were all civilian pattern models - mostly light trucks - that had been bought en masse and painted green. (For a while, my command post was a Chevy 5/4 ton with a box on the back.) It looks like the Storm - described as being based on the Jeep Wrangler - is one of those type. I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that this one doesn't have a key. - Eron^Talk 22:24, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

I guess it's mostly a matter of semantics with regard to the Storm and similar vehicles. As for the Merkava - I couldn't say. I've only been inside one once, it was dark and I had other things on my mind :) . But you're probably right. -- Meni Rosenfeld (talk) 23:04, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Not Allowing Newscasters,Etc. to Wear U.S. flag Pens

Please let we, the public, know who came up with this "idiotic" idea of not allowing your on-air peole to wear a United States Flag pen. You have just lost alot of loyal watchers because of that. It matters not what your political leaning, this is, IN FACT, the United States of America and if you don't like it and can't respect it, leave and go to the country where you can be happy and repect, but you have not right taking away symbols of Our Country.

You should be absolutely ashamed, and, as I said, I know of at least 20 people who will no longer watch your ABC stations, and as we continue to pass this information around, those numbers will certainly grow. I hope it's worth it to you to insult this great country at all costs.

Sincerely,

Pat S. Pensa Atlanta, Ga. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.105.123.249 (talk) 21:21, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

You seem confused. This is Wikipedia, not ABC news. There is no relationship between the two. I also suspect that they were wearing "pins", not "pens", unless you count them having a pen stuck behind their ears. StuRat (talk) 21:31, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Why is a flag pin such a big deal in the US? In fact, why is the whole country so overtly patriotic? It's kind of silly... just blinds people to the idea that other countries might be doing something better and that lessons could be learnt from said countries. I wouldn't say I knew anyone here in Britain who wasn't patriotic, but flags only come out when England play at football and stuff like that. -mattbuck (Talk) 21:43, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Jingoism, and the fact that the Republican Party discovered that flag pins are another stick with which they can beat Democrats. Foolish people are readily moved by such foolish issues.

Atlant (talk) 22:51, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

They're made into a big deal by the third in the three groups of people in this drama:

1. the sincere patriots who see the flag as a symbol of all that is good and just about the country and its people
2. the equally sincere patriots who see the flag as a symbol of the country's government -- and in particular its military -- which do not always conform to the highest principles of the country and its people
3. the partisan hacks who gain political advantage by persuading group #1 that group #2's unease about the flag is due to their opposition to all that is good and just about the country and its people.

The flag burning debate centers on the same deliberate misunderstanding. --Sean 14:43, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Additionally, I can't tell if this has any present grounding in fact. The June 2008 complaints on the net that I encountered match, word for word, the October 2001 phrasing found at Snopes.— Lomn 21:46, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

You're not really a patriot unless you tattoo a flag on your forehead. The guys who just put on a flag pin are wusses—they don't care enough about this country to wear their pride on their skin. You're not a patriot if you can hang your honor in the closet. Oh, and don't forget to ask all your coworkers if they're loyal Americans. Any that refuse, or who won't get a tattoo, can be reported to the appropriate government agency. Bonus points if you annex a part of Canada, too. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 21:54, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Bush: "Canada, isn't that one of our Northern states ?"

Aide: "No, sir. We aren't scheduled to invade and annex Canada until 2010."

Bush: "Tell you what, these Canadians are so nice, let's let them keep their country ... until 2012 at least." - Chilly Beach - StuRat (talk) 22:26, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

I think there's two sides to everything. Americans may be "too patriotic," but Brits seem to be sadly unpatriotic nowadays. British friends tell me that the only people who fly Union Jacks nowadays are "racists and old people," and that anyone who flies a flag is seen as out of touch. That's quite sad, I think. Why shouldn't you be proud of a country that has so much to be proud of? Too much colonial guilt or something? You can't get satisfy all of your patriotism quotient just through GWB-bashing. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 23:41, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Don't forget Rangers' fans. Mind you they demonstrate their pride in somewhat mysterious ways. Rockpocket 00:53, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

There are certainly two sides of everything. I've never understood why private citizens in this country seem so intent on displaying the emblem of the federal government. My house is not a post office or a tax collection center, why would I put the government's flag out front?
It's a bizarre state of affairs where people are assumed not to love their country if they're not constantly advertising their commitment to the government. APL (talk) 13:11, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Of course, this sentiment doesn't apply on independence day, or flag day or something. APL (talk) 13:13, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

But..... Why would you presume that people don't love their country just because they don't fly the Union Flag? Why do you need to fly the flag to show your love for your country? Isn't that the whole problem with the lapel silliness that people have been discussing above? I think a lot of British people are very proud of their country, they just don't see the need to fly the flag all the time to show it. Many may even think it's silly... Surely it's their right to choose to love their country and show off their pride in different ways? Personally, I think British people show of their pride in ther country in far better ways. (You could say a Brit doesn't need flashy symbols to show Britain is great, it just comes naturally...) Another case in point, many Malaysians are very patriotic, often (IMHO anyway) unhealthily so. Many are also proud of their flag. However despite the governments attempts to instill the sort of flag waving culture you see in the US, it hasn't really been embraced that well. But as I've already said, it's dumb to say that's because of a lack of patriotism, it mostly isn't. Or here in NZ, a significant percentage of the population doesn't even like the current flag. Other then in sports events (where a flag waving culture is fairly universal for all countries I think) you don't see it that much. But Kiwis are definitely proud of NZ. Nil Einne (talk) 16:30, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Good evening. Even though being overly patriotic isn't necessarily a bad thing it can get a little over the top. Have a positively wonderful day. I hope you find ABC soon so that you can persuade them.Rem Nightfall (talk) 22:05, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

I don't think they should be allowed to wear flags, it's jingoistic ,hotclaws 03:35, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

What if the reporter isn't a US citizen? Would they have to wear the flag pen/pin? Whom else should we require to wear symbols of patriotism? Teachers? Garbage collectors (though our garbage trucks do have flags painted on the sides)? Dog walkers? I know, let's pass a Constitutional amendment requiring a flag pin be worn at all times. If you're naked, pin it to your skin. Corvus cornix_talk 15:43, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

See flag waving contest or dick waving contest. What?! No article on either? How unpatriotic. ;-) --Prestidigitator (talk) 18:23, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

I agree with Nil Einne. There are many ways to show patriotism; flying or displaying your country's flag is one of them. Those who don't do so shouldn't be tagged as unpatriotic, and those who do do so shouldn't be mocked as old-fashioned or anything else. I've never been one for having the Australian flag on display, but on Australia Day, almost as a joke, I stuck one on my front fence. The next day, I thought "why take it down? I'm not proud of my country for only one day a year" - so I kept it there. After 5 months it's become a little faded and ragged, and I'll have to either replace it or remove it soon. But after a lifetime of not being overtly patriotic, I'm now quite comfortable with flying the flag. And I don't even like the current design; I'd vote for a change if a suitable alternative was ever on offer. But it's not about whatever the current design is, it's what it stands for that's important. -- JackofOz (talk) 04:46, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

British attitude towards competition ?

I've been watching All Creatures Great and Small, and found their attitude towards competition to be puzzling. One vet seemed to feel the need to get permission from another before even seeing a regular customer of the second vet. To fail to do so was seen as immoral and "poaching customers". In the US, I'd expect vets to try to take each other's customers, as competition is good for the customers in the long run, leading to better service and lower prices. Does this attitude towards competition remain the same today in England as in the movie, or has it since become more acceptable to compete with other businesses ? StuRat (talk) 22:35, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Times have, in fact, changed. --Tagishsimon (talk) 22:54, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

I think the situation you're referring to is a Gentlemen's agreement. In my home town there was an arrangement between two cinemas that each would take films from two each of the four major film distirbutors at the time so they were never showing the same films. I imagine this was to avoid a pointless competition for customers who all wanted to see the same film. Exxolon (talk) 23:37, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

There remain many situations where it is seen as underhand to take another's clients without some acknowledgement. Sometimes it is merely that (ie. notification rather than actual request for permission). This is more prevalent in small towns or small fields (eg where the number of people doing particular work is small) where smooth running of businesses and lives is dependant on co-operation, or good working relationships. As Exxolon said, these are gentlemen's, or unwritten agrreements; one is not obliged to stick to these unwritten rules, but if, for example, you poached someone else's regular clients then word would get around, you'd be black-marked, and you would find people less willing to work with you, or pass on other clients/contacts. These areas can be varied, and many have actual processes in place, such as medicine where specialists won't see someone off the street, but require a referral, or corporate taxi drivers, who have their own list of clients and won't book in another driver's regular customer without agreement. Situations like this exist in other countries too, such as NZ. That said, some areas of business/trade are competitive, and others quite cut throat. Like most things, there are unwritten but widely held rules; some people work right on the edge of teh acceptable (and the rules are constantly being pushed, and move over time) but overstep the mark too much and you'll be left in the cold. Gwinva (talk) 00:23, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

(ec) This was a small, relatively (for the UK) remote community. If one vet's office were overextended or if the veterinarians were ill or away for some reason it would be expected that the other office in town would cover for them. It was necessary to keep on good terms with them, and poaching clients would hardly promote that! Also, in a time before computers, medical professionals couldn't easily find out the medical history of new patients. You couldn't trust the pet owner to know or remember everything, and more importantly you had to be sure that the owner was really asking for help with a pet and not just trying to get drugs. (Yes, drugs were a problem back then too.) Lastly, remember that All Creatures Great and Small is a fictionalized (and somewhat rose-coloured) look back at small-town life before and after World War II, and Alf Wight, the real James Herriot, was such a traditionalist that when the married actor playing him in the first series was found to be having an affair with his unmarried female co-star, he had the woman fired but stayed friends with the man. --NellieBly (talk) 00:26, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

NellieBly makes some good points specific to All Creatures. But it's worth remembering that while it's a fictional representation, James Herriot/Alf Wight was a fine observer/drawer of character, and his portrayals of the types of people he found in Yorkshire are superb. You can still find them today! Of course, he wrote about the interesting characters, not the ordinary, average, ones. On a side note, are you watching the film or the TV serial? Gwinva (talk) 00:42, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm watching the TV serial. StuRat (talk) 01:34, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

It's worth noting that the cinema example above is a case where non-competition benefits the consumer. Without the agreement the two cinemas would both choose to show the movie they thought was going to be the most popular, and cinemagoers would be left with no choice. With this agreement both cinemas get to stay in business and viewers get more choice. DJ Clayworth (talk) 15:30, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

However, since you have no choice of theatres for the movie you have in mind, they can charge a higher rate and get away with it, due to a lack of competition. StuRat (talk) 16:18, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

I don't know, from my experience cinema prices are fairly fixed. One of the problems is that there is a natural monopoly there since copyright grants a monopoly to the copyright holders and they have a big say in the ticket price, obviously Nil Einne (talk) 16:39, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

June 18

Urgent London coffee query

I am hoping someone here is a knowledgeable Londoner. I am thinking of driving from London to Stonehenge to see the stone circle up close and without the crowds with a special 8:00 a.m. permit. This will necessitate leaving London at 6:15 a.m. However, I will not be able to drive anywhere at that hour without drinking coffee first, so before I commit to this plan, I need to know: Am I likely to find a place that sells coffee in or near Paddington Station between 5:30 and 6:00 a.m. on a weekday morning? A secondary and related question: Do UK motorways have service areas with (ahem) toilets? (As an American, I want to say "restrooms" but fear that I won't be understood.) Thank you. Marco polo (talk) 01:51, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Can't answer the first, but for the 2nd, yeah, all UK motorways have services, with full facilities, including free restrooms. All signposted, and marked on maps. You'll be on the M3 Motorway for some of the journey, which has the Fleet services. If you take the M4 motorway out of London, you'll pass the Heston services as well. WHAAOE! Gwinva (talk) 02:11, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

AA route planner] for your trip shows services on the A303 as well. Enjoy Stonehenge and all the other places we've told you to go. We expect all articles to be updated with new photos! And do report back! Gwinva (talk) 02:20, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Wow... That's all I can think to say... There are many individual articles for rest stops... Wow... Now I have to go to England before I die so that I might experience what it is that makes a rest area notable. Dismas|^(talk) 03:05, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

What makes them notable? That's easy. The fuel and the food prices (the rate of which is inversely proportional to quality). Fill up self and car elsewhere before setting off. Gwinva (talk) 03:33, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

The problem with that is that drivers and passengers need somewhere to stop and rest in the middle of a long car journey, and motorway service stations are pretty much the only option. Some of them aren't too bad, especially the Moto ones. The trick is to look for the ones that have decent food concessions such as Marks & Spencer, which have good food at reasonable prices. --Richardrj ^{talk email} 07:44, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Although, having just read the Heston Services article, I find that there are those who appreciate the finer qualities of these service areas: "Celebrated chef Heston Blumenthal received his unusual forename because of his parents' love of Heston services." Well, after that recommendation by Mr & Mrs Blumenthal, Marcopolo, you MUST stop there. In fact, why bother going all the way to Stonehenge, with such a place on your doorstep? Gwinva (talk) 03:39, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Marco polo: feeling a little guilty for hijacking your coffee question so it looks answered, but not actually answering it, I now offer this Paddington Guide, which shows a few places which open early. Gwinva (talk) 04:13, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

For coffee, just go inside the station itself. There will be loads of places open even at that time in the morning, catering for the early morning commuters. --Richardrj ^{talk email} 07:44, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

As a relative local to the Stonehenge site I would advise 1. Use the M3 then A303 and you can't miss it. 2. Stonehenge was last year in the top 5 most disappointing sites to visit. Richard Avery (talk) 07:10, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Actually, I have already seen Stonehenge, and it was disappointing. However, my partner has never set foot in Great Britain, and for him Stonehenge is one of the "must see" attractions. So we have to go. I haven't had the heart to tell him that it is disappointing, and maybe for him it won't be. I was hoping that seeing it up close, with access to the actual stones, and before the crowds arrive, would be less disappointing, but I've now concluded that the ordeal of waking up at 5:00 and looking for coffee, then driving across London, and the expense of roughly £70 for car rental and fuel outweighs the potential thrill of seeing the stones up close and without a crowd. So we will see it later, along with the busloads of tourists, from behind the railing. Fortunately, my partner has a zoom lens. Thanks for your helpful comments. I guess I will have to consider adding the Heston Services on the M4 to our list of "must see" destinations! Marco polo (talk) 12:34, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

A great antidote to the disappointment of Stonehenge is to visit Avebury, which is just down the road, a lot less famous but more impressive. You can touch the stones, walk round the rings, etc. This really gives you a much better feel of the scale. On a summer evening there is real atmosphere there. -- Q Chris (talk) 12:46, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

There's a lot of good stone circles in the UK: List of stone circles has some (but not comprehensive). The ones off the beaten track can be very atmospheric, and as Q Chris says, you can touch them, sit on them, shelter beside them to eat your picnic etc. They make great shields for snowball fights, also (not that there'll be much snow, just at the moment). Best of all, most are free, and you'll be quite alone. Some require a walk (short strolls to energetic walks). Try Enhlish Heritage prehistoric sites and Historic Scotland. You're bound to find something close to where you're going. Gwinva (talk) 21:52, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

dock your pay

Just wanted to know the origin of this phrase. Is this a nautical term and how was it first used? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.21.238.180 (talk) 02:11, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

"Dock", in this sense, means to cut, and derives from a word relating to an animal's tail. Tails are often cut, or docked. This sense of cutting (or curtailing!) was transferred to other things, like pay: essentially, it means "cut your pay". Gwinva (talk) 02:31, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Not quite. It is used in the sense of a short term deduction, perhaps to pay for some damage. It does not refer to a long-term pay cut.86.211.108.138 (talk) 14:25, 18 June 2008 (UTC)DT

Influences of Visual Arts/art in 21st century Architecture (modern houses, landmarks etc.)

Has visual arts/art had a postive influence to 21st Century Architecture (modern houses, landmarks etc.)? Has Visual Arts/art had much of an influence on architecture (modern houses, landmarks etc.) within the 21st Century as it has in previous centuries?

I just want to know some facts or maybe an answer for these questions. If someone could tell me some good sites or articles for these questions that'd be great. Thanks

Happysnaps (talk) 13:41, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Let's look at some. Firstly "positive" influence of art -- that's subjective so maybe we could make it "actual" -- has art influenced or been reflected in architecture (say, as it did at the turn of last century eg. the Vienna Secession, Gustav Klimt, decoration, art nouveau and design)? Looking at those elements for the 21st c, you could say it has. But I'd rather say, art and architecture reflect the thinking of the times and express it physically. As arts together they reflect and respond to current ideas. The impact of postmodernism is still around so that we can talk about art being analytical, aware of its own history and more flexible, so is architecture. Arts now include not just painting, architecture and sculpture, but design, craft, the computer. Image art permeates the internet and the internet invades architectural space and affects how we use that space, as well as how it is designed. A further inflluence is changing technologies so that something like CAD allows for more freedom in designing architecture.

Have you seen our articles on Deconstruction with links to Vorticism and Constructivism and then there's analytical cubism? Art used ideas from deconstruction and post-modernism to discuss place and space and decentralisation. Theories questioned the dominance of the museum (using installation works), and art went outside to public gardens or onsite in historical buildings -- engaging the buildings, then transcending them by taking the reproducible image via photography to the internet. Architecture also analyses itself so that architects of the domestic would be thinking about avoiding the dominance of the front door, about not facing the street, and be more sympathetic to place (the site, the sun and green power); in public spaces, of being more transparent (lots of glass), of being green (especially in landscape architecture: conserving water by using wild grasses etc). I'm not sure if the big bucks are available to architects in the present world climate as they were for say Frank Gehry's Guggenheim in Bilbao, so architecture may be less about monumental display, impressing the public as it is about accommodating the public: personal scale, sympathy to the environment, flexibility of materials. I guess there are parallels, but in painting there's been a trend towards realism and existentialism over the past few years. There's a nice site here[13] for an overview of 20th century art movements to give you some background. Julia Rossi (talk) 08:06, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Architecture is itself a visual art form. Marco polo (talk) 12:25, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Crab boat "Ocean Spray"

In the early 1980's there was a crab boat out of Dutch Harbor, AK named the Ocean Spray. I am trying to find out if it is still in operation and if possible get a photo of this boat.208.98.128.54 (talk) 06:11, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

If AK = Alaska, there's this photography site[14] with two pics of Ocean Spray, commercial fishing vessel (scroll down, four row far right and second last row centre - use find command). You could get in touch with the photographer. Julia Rossi (talk) 09:05, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Plastic bag ban

Apparently South Australia will ban supermarket lightweight plastic bags by the end of the year and Australia is following (eventually). What are the green alternatives for disposing of household rubbish, then? Julia Rossi (talk) 12:44, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Paper bags are better, in my opinion, since they are biodegradable. They can also be reused more easily as trash bags since they, unlike plastic bags, can stand upright on their own and hold more volume. The bags should be brown, not dyed or bleached. As long as whoever cuts down the trees uses proper forest management techniques (regrowing trees at a rate that replaces those they cut down), the trees shouldn't suffer. Better yet, the bags can be made from recycled paper.

An even better choice (for shopping) is reusable canvas bags. StuRat (talk) 12:54, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

I don't think a reusable canvas bag is a good solution for Julia's question regarding disposal of household rubbish. Even with supermarket bags being banned, perhaps the stores will still sell bin liners? In any event, composting and recycling can drastically reduce the amount of rubbish produced. For the question below, our Biodegradable plastic article states "degradation of biodegradable plastic occurs very slowly, if at all, in a sealed landfill." There are also other concerns mentioned. --LarryMac | Talk 14:32, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm trying to look at the whole life cycle from production, to getting the bag at the store, to reusing it for garbage. The canvas bag would only be used for garbage once it was worn out. StuRat (talk) 16:10, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Aren't there such things as biodegradable plastic bags now? --Richardrj ^{talk email} 12:56, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Reusing a trash bag could be awkward. And perhaps unsanitary, unless there was a cleaning step involved. (Which would sink energy and water, of course.) APL (talk) 13:18, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

The reuse is from when you get it while shopping to using it to collect trash. You can also resuse a paper bag for trash again if it only contained dry items. StuRat (talk) 16:10, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

France moved away from throw-away plastic bags a year or so ago. Instead we can buy large and long-term use bags for a few cents. These can be exchanged, free, when necessary. The store then disposes of them. Unfortunately one forgets to take them in and so I now have about a dozen in my car ! But the scheme is good, and popular.86.211.108.138 (talk) 14:23, 18 June 2008 (UTC)DT

Plastic bags/canvas bags/paper bags it is difficult to say which is better without access to recycling-rates. The institute for lifecyle asssesment (think that's their name) look at the whole product lifecycle from cradle-to-grave (as it were). I'll try add the link later but can't find it right now. 194.221.133.226 (talk) 14:53, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

I think some people haven't properly read the question, or perhaps are ignoring it. The OP is interested in what to use for disposing of rubbish, I presume primary bin liners and similar. I don't think many people will be interested in canvas bags or large long-term use bags for this purpose. I suspect LarryMac is right, bin-liners will still be available. (I already use bin-liners for my kitchen rubbish since the bin is too large for most plastic bags). As will large rubbish bags. The large rubbish bags may not be so important anyway, I'm not sure what things in Australia are like but at least here in NZ in Auckland, most councils use prepaid large rubbish bags which are definitely not going to disappear. Some others (and some independent contractors) use wheelie bins. Either way, the primary issue is bin-liners. N.B. These are of course not green but the general concern is people have too many and don't dispose of them properly meaning more waste then is necessary and plastic bags clogging up drains etc.Nil Einne (talk) 16:08, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

FWIW, we have cats and a cat litter tray. We get through several plastic bags a day clearing it up. No way am I using over 1000 canvas bags a year for this. Paper would be possible if there were a convenient source of bags. -- SGBailey (talk)

The best solution is to rinse and dry plastic and glass recyclables and then put them in a recycling bin, to recycle paper waste, and to put organic waste in a compost container that you empty regularly into a larger compost bin and then rinse. (It helps to have a vegetarian diet, since meat scraps and other animal proteins don't compost so well, but having a dog or cat would solve that problem). Once you've separated out the organic wastes, your remaining trash should be fairly dry, or you can dry it out before disposing of it. Then you can dispose of your dry trash in paper bags without a danger of breeding microbes in your trash bin. As for cat litter, the greenest solution might be a pair of washable textile work gloves, which you could use to clean/change the litter. You could probably reuse these and/or have several of them that could accumulate before you wash them. The cat droppings presumably can go in the toilet. No need for plastic bags. Marco polo (talk) 17:28, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

This pair have a few tips [15] Mhicaoidh (talk) 22:01, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

It looks like there are some limits to recycling in a hands-on way for people who don't have a space resources. I guess I will go with finding a good source of strong paper bags or wrapping in newspaper. I used to think that plastic bags were being recycled after shopping with them when you used them for rubbish, imagining them buried for good in a dump somewhere. But when a local creek flooded a couple of times recently, I saw them hanging from the trees like a weird harvest. I guess someone will have to legislate against selling them as bin liners too. Julia Rossi (talk) 00:56, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Although you won't be able to get shopping bags with your shopping, you should still be able to buy plastic household garbage bags (including biodegradable ones) at your supermarket. I've seen them in both Woolies and Coles. Steewi (talk) 01:00, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Do the biodegradable plastic bags really break down? Awhile ago people nailed them to the shed roof, buried them and so on, but found they didn't dissolve. Wondering if there's been developments on that since. Julia Rossi (talk) 05:22, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

T shirts

Are there any websites you guys know of that sell shirts with weapons or Tank's on them? RoyalOrleans 14:03, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

I found one at http://www.forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtopic.php?t=54141 -- SGBailey (talk) 16:54, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Increasing Credit Score

What is the absolutely the best way to increase your credit score if you have very poor credit? --Anthonygiroux (talk) 14:43, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Credit history#How credit rating is determined has some relevant information but I'm not sure there is an "absolute best way". Zain Ebrahim (talk) 15:01, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Assuming that you can afford it, I have heard financial advisers recommend taking out a small loan (unnecessarily) the immediately setting aside all the money required to pay it of, plus its interest. A common load size is $500 to $1000 US, then pay each payment on time, but do not pay it all at once. The objective of this is to show your creditor that you are: responsible, able to make payments on time, and can control your debt. After you have completed paying off the loan, consider waiting several months and taking out a larger loan, again setting aside money so you may pay it on schedule.

Watch to see if you think the (probable) increase in credit score is worth the expense, and repeat if you find it necessary. Please note that this process WILL take many years to complete. If this seems like it may work, please discuss this with your financial adviser before taking drastic action. Freedomlinux (talk) 15:47, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

You may also want to read Credit Score or Credit score (United States). Freedomlinux (talk) 15:50, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

(EC) I've sometimes heard people suggest you should consider increasing your credit limit on your credit card even if you don't need it because it can help as it shows you are able to control your spending and repay on time (meaning before you incur any interest). This is of course presuming you do have the discipline to control your spending and repay on time and that your credit limit is not so bad that you can't even get a credit card or an increase in credit limit. More generally making sure you pay your bills on time or better, early (particularly if there is an early payment discount) helps. Obviously, make sure you have a job. And if you can, stay away from 'instant finance' or other high interest money lenders, hire-purchase, getting a loan to buy a car (or other items which devalue) etc (if you do have any of these, make sure you repay them on schedule). Nil Einne (talk) 15:56, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

There is no best way as it depends on why you have bad credit. Get you credit reports and examine them carefully. Look for things that are wrong and dispute them. But the best way is to make sure you are current with your creditors and stay that way. If you have a legitimate debt that can't be repaid because the creditor is defunt, dispute that too. There is no fast way, short of removing false or unpayable records on your credit report, to improve your score. Think of credit like you would think of trust. It takes a long time to earn it and a very short time to burn it. Leftus (talk) 20:02, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Laptop and linux

Moved to WP:RD/C#Laptop and linux Algebraist 16:00, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

crossword answer

What is a Mississippi quartet? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.65.165.161 (talk) 16:38, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

It's not that kind of clue. You need to think of something or someone that comes in fours and is associated with Mississippi somehow, or something like that. (By the way, I'm deliberately being a bit obscure there. I know the answer because I did a Google search for "Mississippi quartet", but I think it'd take away the fun if I said more. If I'd actually been doing the puzzle, I'd have needed to see some letters in the word before thinking of the right answer.) --Anonymous, 16:55 UTC, June 18, 2008.

Two Teleological Questions

Two pretty much unrelated questions:

Firstly, my watch (an analogue quartz watch, made by Richelieu) has a circular component around the dial, inscribed with the numbers 10, 20, 40 and 50 in the right places and with marks to indicate the other minutes on the circumference, which can be manually turned anticlockwise to any minute (ie it moves in steps one minute wide). What is its purpose?

Secondly, on several suit jackets I've seen there exists an inside pocket on the left-hand side, in roughly the same place as the outside pocket but smaller. The inside breast pockets I can understand as convenient, but it seems like a strange place to put a pocket. Is there some specific purpose to it?

Thanks for the help, Daniel (‽) 18:10, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

For question 1, I believe the component you are speaking of is called a "bezel" (a term for which we don't have an article, and which has several meanings, anyway). Please take a look at Diving watch for a photograph of a watch with an "elapsed time counter" bezel and see if that is similar to your timepiece. There is also a description of how this is used within the article. I'm not good at clothing design, so I'll pass on the second question. --LarryMac | Talk 19:09, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

The first thing I think is a bezel, which doesn't seem to have a wikipedia page. Ah well, I always thought it was for 'timing' things - you set it to the current time so you can see how much time has passed in minutes. But my watch doesn't have one...

The second, I use for my mobile phone (and seeing from your use of 'anticlockwise', I avoided saying 'cellphone'). It seems really convenient to me if this is indeed its 'true' purpose. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.125.225.157 (talk) 19:12, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

I agree with the answers on the first question, so won't repeat. But for the second, I've always used this pocket for pens. Dismas|^(talk) 19:33, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

meat

How long will meat last in your refrigerator before it goes bad? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.167.13.173 (talk) 20:10, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

There's a lot of variation. Type of meat? Exact cut? Raw or cooked? Sealed how? My personal rule of thumb for raw meats is the sell-by date plus three, but I don't have any sort of scientific backing for it. — Lomn 20:47, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

No single duration for all meat. The answer depends on: 1. the mass of the meat 2. the bacterial count 3. how long it has been since the animal was slaughtered 4. the temperature of your refrigerator 5. your olfactory and gustatory tolerance for meat breakdown products 6. presence of any substances or treatments to retard spoilage Dalembert (talk) 20:48, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Well generally I don't put meat in the refrigerator when its raw unless I'm going to use it either the very next day or the day I put in the refrigerator. It kinda also depends on your refrigerator. I find that my refrigerator has meat last a pretty good time (five days at the least) when I put it in the meat locker. When meat is cooked it has to kind of depend on the meat. Fat tends to rot first so if you have particular fatty piece of meat then it probably won't last that long. When it comes to cooked food I like to say its good for three days after you cook it. answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070520013423AAvvQEN - 46k - That might help a little. But I think everyone said everything else.

Always

Cardinal Raven (talk) 23:25, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Don't Mess up the Rolling Groove

Good evening. I love Katamari Damashi games especially the ones on the Playstation 2. I have a few questions about Katamari. What drugs were they on when they made this game? Also, what is missing in Beautiful Katamari? I've noticed while playing Beautiful Katamari that I am not enjoying it as much as the other games. It seems like Beautiful Katamari is missing something. I like the way the Playstation 2 games played. In Beautiful Katamari all you have been doing is rolling in a city. Where is the odd places? You know in We Love Katamari they had garden, a snow level, an earth level, etc. There is only a city. I don't want to just roll in a city for every goal I am suppose to do. Then they have you find items that you can't find in the level. They say find expensive metal. You only find a few expensive metal stuff in that level. Why didn't they design the way they did with the other games? I remember in the first Katamari it was difficult not because you couldn't find the bear they were asking for because there was so many bears and you wanted pick up the biggest bear. I also remember giving you the ones were you just rolled up and got bigger, then they had the challenges like make a snow man head, and then they had collect us much as you can in a certain time. Where is that? Where is the rotation? Then they give impossible time limits to get things. I'm suppose to get 500m in nine minutes(I usually get to four hundred meters then I only have fifty six seconds to get the rest). It would have been much easier if they made the time not go by so fast.(Even so I still get extremely larger then what they ask me when the time limit goes so fast.) All they did was suck the fun out of what use to be a good game by doing whatever they did in Beautiful Katamari. They have ruined my Rolling Groove totally. Thank you for answering my question and sifting through my rant. Have a positively wonderful evening.Rem Nightfall (talk) 22:17, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

The Reference Desk is not a soapbox for posting rants. Is there an answerable question here? — Lomn 22:42, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Cheap Bike Parts

Where are some cheap bike parts in Spokane, WA?

I have already googled some stores down, but i just need a few parts —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ratheinea (talk • contribs) 23:22, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

<moved from humanities desk>

Bicycle or Motorcycle? Dismas|^(talk) 00:39, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Here are the hum desk contributions:

Where are some cheap bike parts in Spokane, WA?

I have already googled some stores down, but i just need a few parts —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ratheinea (talk • contribs) 23:22, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

What does this have to do with the humanities? Wrad (talk) 23:26, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Where else was i supposed to post? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ratheinea (talk • contribs) 23:37, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Miscellaneous, possibly? Algebraist 23:46, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Perhaps we should humor him and discuss the philosophical, cultural, and religious implications of cheap bicycle parts ? :-) StuRat (talk) 00:31, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Already well covered by Robert M. Pirsig, amongst others. --Tagishsimon (talk) 00:40, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Ok I am sorry I didn't mean to post in humanities. The miscellaneous blog wasn't working. Bicycle Parts.

June 19

Rice

Yeah I'm the only man you'll ever find interested in that white grain. Why do westerners like their rice not clumped, but Easterners(I hope that is what you call most Asian cultures and whoever else likes their rice clumped) like their rice clump? Personally, clump rice is the best there is no mess to clean up. How do I clump rice the way Easterners do?Cardinal Raven (talk) 00:49, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

After cooking, stuff the rice in a cup then tap the cup lightly to put the rice in the plate. Now you have a measured and clumped rice.--Lenticel ^(talk) 01:18, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Well more or less I mean sticky. Cause the moment I began to eat the measured clump of rice it will just fall into a nice little pile. Also I want to eat my rice with chopsticks and just measuring won't do much when you want to eat it with chopsticks.I guess I'm asking how do I get my rice sticky enough to eat with chopsticks?Cardinal Raven (talk) 01:27, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Oh... we don't use chopsticks here. Glutinous rice or malagkit is usually too "tasty" accompany vegetables or meat. Filipinos prepare it differenly as a seperate dish such as bebinca, suman and champorado.--Lenticel ^(talk) 02:48, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

If you're referring to "sticky rice", which you can roll into a ball (such as in Thai or Lao cooking), then see Glutinous rice. It's a specific type. (That article also has many links that you mind find useful in tracking down types of rice.) Gwinva (talk) 01:34, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

I don't know why. But, I'd have to agree. I don't like my rice sticky, but they do in the Philippines were I have spent a considerable amount of time. Useight (talk) 01:37, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Part of it is for practical reasons. Glutinous rice - as hinted at above - is far easier to eat with chopsticks than other rice. And there's nothing better than a hot place of satay beef on a bed of rice, eaten with chopsticks. Yum. Grutness...wha? 02:04, 19 June 2008 (UTy

Glutinous rice, such as you'd have in a Thai restaurant, is one way to eat sticky rice. Another is the way Hawaii locals like it, which is to start with medium-grain calrose rice. If you have a rice cooker, use about 1.5 parts water for every 1 part rice. Perfect sticky rice-ball quality rice almost every time. If you're cooking on the cooktop, cook in a small pot on low, and use about twice as much water as rice. Mitchell k dwyer (talk) 05:45, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia Hierachy

I've always been curious to know the hierarchy of WP. From what I understand, the account hierarchies goes like this, increasing status:

• Banned user
• Unregistered user
• Registered user
• Bot
• Administrator/SysOp
• Checkuser and Oversight
• Bureaucrat
• Steward
• Developer

Is this correct? Are Checkusers and Oversights on the same level? Thanks. Acceptable (talk) 02:29, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

No user is "above" another, however, I suppose if you wanted to sort by number of rights each account type has, I definitely wouldn't put a bot "above" a registered user. Bots don't think for themselves. Bots can't comment in discussions. It is true that bureaucrats, stewards, checkusers, and oversighters can do things that an admin cannot, they don't carry more weight in a discussion to find consensus. Useight (talk) 05:40, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

You've left off autoconfirmed (and founder, I suppose). Algebraist 06:53, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Trying To Find a Pair of Glasses Frames Like These

50's-style scientist glasses. Like #6 on this page:

http://www.propspecs.com/glasses/rocknroll.htm

Unfortunately, that site is just for "prop" frames, so I can't really get them from there. I need to either find actual vintage frames or a modern version that looks pretty much the same. E^robson (T^alk) 04:00, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Nothing to stop you replacing the pane with prescriptions. On closer inspection, they're an actual frames company using that name for their marketing niche. My messy post, Julia Rossi (talk) 05:27, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Velpeau’s Law

I recently came across the term “Velpeau’s Law”, which is apparently used to describe the experience of a doctor seeing a patient with a very rare condition, then a short time later has another, entirely unrelated, patient with the same rare condition. This was in a book about synchronicity. I can’t find anything about Velpeau's Law on the web, and the only Velpeau we have an article on says nothing about it either.

Then, a few days later, I was reading a different book, on the subject of things people said that they might have wished they hadn’t said, and I found this quote: "The abolishment [sic] of pain in surgery is a chimera. It is absurd to go on seeking it." (Dr Alfred Velpeau, 1839). Our article confirms he did indeed have scepticism about pain-free surgery, so I can nail that one down.

I thought finding these 2 references to the previously unheard-of (by me) Velpeau in a short space of time was a nice example of both synchronicity and Velpeau’s Law in a non-medical context. But that aside, is the term “Velpeau’s Law” generally used by the medical fraternity, and does it originate, as I assume, from Alfred Velpeau, or from another Velpeau? -- JackofOz (talk) 07:11, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

South Africa + Restaurants + Take-aways etc.

Please please

I need some help?

I am trying to do some Market Research and I need some information as follows:

How many Restaurants are there in South Africa? How many fast-food outlets are there in South Africa? How many liquor stores are there in South Africa? etc

please could you put me in the right direction?

Thank you thank you