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September 23

McCowan Subway Station

Why is there a McCowan and Scarborough centre station if they are 600 metres apart, there is an elevator at the Scarborough Centre Station, the 4 bus routes that stop at McCowan also stop at Scarborough and there are 9 more stations there and a bus terminal? Also there is connection to Go transit and a mall from Scarborough. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.247.0.42 (talk) 00:47, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Well, crossing the road either way is kind of a pain in the ass, so maybe it was useful to have another stop after the mall (although according to McCowan (TTC) it is one of the least busiest stops). Maybe the RT was supposed to go farther, it's not unheard of to have stops that close elsewhere, like downtown; maybe they expected Scarborough to grow faster. Maybe McCowan was supposed to be the spot where the trains turn around, not a station, but they put one there anyway. Adam Bishop (talk) 03:10, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Bush's SAT Scores

What did President George W. Bush score on his SAT I and II's? Acceptable (talk) 01:19, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Bush is about 30 years to old to have taken those tests. Rmhermen (talk) 01:25, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Say what? Bush would have been at the age to take the tests in around 1963 or 1964; the tests certainly existed then. Of course they were called something slightly different (probably Scholastic Aptitude Test and Achievement Tests). --Trovatore (talk) 01:33, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

The SAT I and II were created in 1994 according to the article. They are not scored the same or cover the same subject matter as the old tests. Rmhermen (talk) 01:39, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

That's an absurdly pedantic approach to take to the question. The SAT I and II are the direct successors to the Scholastic Aptitude Test and the Achievement Tests. --Trovatore (talk) 01:45, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Hey, if it's not pedantic non-answers, it's not the Ref Desk! --98.217.8.46 (talk) 02:11, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

566 verbal and 640 math. And here is his transcript from Yale. Plasticup ^T/C 03:06, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Is it rational to hypothesize that being the son of the President certainly aided in his entry into both Yale and Harvard Business School? Acceptable (talk) 03:09, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

As his father was not President at the time of his admission to either of those institutions, no. Plasticup ^T/C 03:13, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

It is worth mentioning that in 1964 Yale wasn't requiring (or paying any heed to) SATs. Jews were doing well on standardized tests and the entrenched antisemitic establishment was rejecting the tests as a way to keep them out. Interesting, Jews are now one of the most over-represented minorities in current Ivy League faculties. Some prejudices dissolve away so fast, yet others persist for centuries. Plasticup ^T/C 03:38, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

It is rational to hypothesize that his being a legacy student helped (legacy preferences are often an "affirmative action" for the rich and white). And his father being politically connected (and rich) couldn't have hurt. --98.217.8.46 (talk) 13:24, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Interesting fact. At Yale (and presumably other Ivy League schools) legacy students have higher test scores than non-legacy students. Make of that what you will. Plasticup ^T/C 16:12, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

His chances of admission may have been helped by his Granddad, Prescott Bush and his great uncle being on the Yale Board of Trustees [1]. Average SAT scores should be more than enough for such an applicant to get admitted. In those days the SAT had a nominal or desired average of 500 and a standard deviation of 100. You could work out approximate percentiles from that, assuming the supposed transcript is legitimate. A 566 verbal would be a Z score of .66 for approximate 75th percentile. A 640 math would be a 1.4 Z score for approximate 92nd percentile. [2] gives an actual 1964 SAT verbal average of 467 and a math sat average of 486. [3] says the "median standard deviation," whatever that is, for unspecified SAT test in 1964 was 140. These figures would give a verbal Z score of .71 for a verbal percentile of approximately 72 and a math Z score of 1.1 for an approximate math percentile of 86. For a "non-legacy" student applying to a highly selective school which considered SAT scores in 1964, these scores would have been a detriment in gaining admission. Yale may have considered other factors than scholastic merit. Edison (talk) 23:07, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Admission rates have steadily fallen through this decade, but I cannot find any data on historically admission rates. There were a lot fewer people going to college in 1964, so perhaps the Yale class was less competitive than it is today. Plasticup ^T/C 00:46, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Subsequent question on Bush's SAT

Given that i've heard the 'because of his daddy' thing about a milion times from people and considering the above responses here's my Q: Was Bush's SAT (or whatever) scores notably worse than his fellow students at Yale joining that year? What % of students entering Yale that year had scores around his level? What % of all students entering the university system had scores at his level? I would note - I don't understand the idea that Bush is unintelligent. His academic skills may (if the evidence mounts up) be lacking, but it seems evident that he is at least socially-intelligent. 194.221.133.226 (talk) 13:47, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Out of a country of 300 million people wouldn't it be possible to find a person who was both socially intelligent and actually intelligent? —Preceding unsigned comment added by DJ Clayworth (talk • contribs)

This shows current ranges for the middle 50% of Yalies. Of course the test has changed, but the scores are (I assume) normalized. With that in mind, Dubya seems to be, as Bob Uecker used to say, "Just a bit outside". Clarityfiend (talk) 17:43, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

The scores were recentered in 1995, so you can't directly compare scores from the two eras. -- Coneslayer (talk) 17:56, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Percentile scores would be a better basis for comparison. The unverified above average but not stellar scores reported above and the mediocre high school class rank would not get an ordinary applicant beyond the slushpile of automatic rejections at a selective college today or in 1964. There appears to be a book "The Chosen: The Hidden History of Admission and Exclusion at Harvard, Yale, and Princeton," by Jerome Karabel. New York: Houghton Mifflin, 2005. 711 pp. ISBN 0618574581 reviewed in the Journal of Higher Education [4] which discusses G.W. Bush's admission to Yale on pages 344-345. Perhaps someone can find a copy. Edison (talk) 23:10, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

The relevant pages can be viewed at Google Book Search [5]. P344: Bush got 566 on SAT verbal, which would put him in the bottom 10% of the Yale freshman class. He never made honor role in high school and was a "mediocre student" with no "outstanding extracurricular talents." Policy at Yale then was to also consider the father's "whole record of service both to Yale and to American society." Bush's father and grandfather had been members of Skull and Bones at Yale and his grandfather was a school trustee. Edison (talk) 23:23, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Taming budgerigars/parakeets

I have 7 baby budgerigars (yeah, that's what happens when you have a boy and a girl) and I was wondering what the easiest way to tame them was. They're pretty afraid of me and when I try to take them out of the cage they fly around. I don't want to traumatize them being to forceful trying to take them out, and I want them to be able to trust me enough to not fly away. Do you have any advice for me? --Sapphire Flame (talk) 12:33, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

This site seems okay. Hope it helps! Utan Vax (talk) 13:01, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

BA planes that fly from Heathrow to Munich

Can anyone tell me the make/type of short haul plane that flies from Heathrow to Munich for BA? If it helps, the flight numbers are usually around BA0948 to BA0956. I've tried looking at the fleet on the BA website, but to no avail. Any help much appreciated, thank you in advance. Utan Vax (talk) 12:57, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Go the BA website, and start booking flights from Heathrow to Munich. After picking your dates, it will list all of the flights on each day. Click on the flight number (e.g. "BA0950") and you'll get a pop-up window that includes the equipment type. It looks to me like Airbus A319/A320 are typical. -- Coneslayer (talk) 13:03, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

That's great! Thanks very much. Utan Vax (talk) 14:58, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Indian book

Dear Wikipedians,

i'm still searching for a book, which is mentioned in this online article: 125 years later Indian circus struggles to survive, The Hindu (2004): Pravin Walimbe: The World of Circus. Well i've searched in all online catalogues I know (WorldCat and so on) and with search engines but I couldn't found anything. I've written to The Hindu but no answer. Maybe it's on hindi? I've found alternative spellings (Praveen Valimbe or Pravin Valimbe). Any indian librarian here ;) ? I want to know the publisher, the publishing year and maybe (if it’s given) an ISBN. Or maybe somebody can find a contact adress of the author. Thanks in advance for your help! --130.133.152.127 (talk) 13:46, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

This blog mentions "two books on Circus World (by Mr Praveen P. Walimbe)" and it says he contacted Rambo Circus (whose website seems dead) to obtain a copy. So you could either email the bog or Rambo Circus itself for details. meltBanana 19:36, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Democracy and Republic

I don't see much difference between these democracy and republic political philosophies. Is it really possible to directly relate, election campaigns, or the way candidates are going to solve national issues (like outsourcing, energy, global warming, etc.) to these philosophies? --V4vijayakumar (talk) 13:48, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Do you mean US Democratic Party and US Republican party and their political philosophies? I don't know about the US but in the Uk major political parties produce an Election Manifesto that outlines their policies and ideas for how to deal with the major issues/running of the country. I suspect the same will be true in the US. The parties will be looking to offer policies that are popular with their core voters and also popular with swing-voters. They will also use their own political compass/ideological beliefs in how they decide what policies to promote, and the 'inner workings' of them. Traditionally parties are aligned on the political 'wings' (usually defined on the left wing or right wing). Of course parties change and there is much movement around by parties historically as the public and media influence what policies are 'important' and thus (to a degree) that dictates how the parties line-up. E.g. in the UK nowadays most major parties seek to be 'low tax' - because that is what is favoured by much of the public. Previously this was not always favoured and the Uk was more 'socialist' in its taxation policy. 194.221.133.226 (talk) 15:31, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

At the bottom of the two parties' articles linked above, you will find links to their "2008 National Platforms". These, I think, are analogous to the "Election Manifesto" mentioned above. The describe each party's philosophy and policy goals. -- Coneslayer (talk) 17:49, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Many political commentators (such as Fareed Zakaria) argue that the party system in the US is long dead. Running as a candidate on a party platform is really more of a mechanism to get quick access to a support base. It used to be that republican and democrat referred to decentralized and centralized philosophies of government, respecitvely, but today they relate more to conservative and liberal, respectively. This is why liberal republicans (see Republican In Name Only) and conservative democrats (such as Joe Leiberman) are often regarded as wolves in sheep's clothing. --Shaggorama (talk) 06:51, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

how to place an ad?

<This question has been removed since it was an advertisement and I the poster should not receive any sort of PR however small from this question> Gunrun (talk) 17:22, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

This is the reference desk of Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. It is not a paper of any sort, and it won't advertise your book for you. Algebraist 17:08, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Oil Depletion tax allowance.

Back in the 70s, as reported in Phillip Stern's book, "The Rape of the American Taxpayer," oil drilling companies could automatically write-off 22% of the monies they made BEFORE paying taxes. Does an oil depletion tax allowance continue to exist and if so, what is the current write-off? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.213.229.211 (talk) 18:36, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

I don't know who Phillip Stern is, but that is obviously a gross over-simplification. Besides, you can't write off a profit and you don't pay taxes on a loss, so the idea of writing something off before paying taxes on it is... well... absurd. Plasticup ^T/C 21:30, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

I won't get into more detail but this (http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=3704) seems to be a good forum discussion on the matter. In particular there is an example that could be of interest:

• Bryce gives an example in his book how the oil depreciation allowance works. "An oilman drills a well that costs $100,000. He finds a reservoir containing $10,000,000 worth of oil. The well produces $1 million worth of oil per year for ten years. In the very first year, thanks to the depletion allowance, the oilman could deduct 27.5 per cent, or $275,000, of that $1 million in income from his taxable income. Thus, in just one year, he's deducted nearly three times his initial investment. But the depletion allowance continues to pay off. For each of the next nine years, he gets to continue taking the $275,000 depletion deduction. By the end of the tenth year, the oilman has deducted $2.75 million from his taxable income, even though his initial investment was only $100,000." ny156uk (talk) 22:01, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

The oil depletion is not the only "depletion allowance" ever used in the US income tax system. I know someone who bought a farm. He immediately sold the marketable timber for, about $10,000, but did not have to pay taxes on 10000 in income from the sale because he argued that the value of the farm had decreased by the amount of the sale. The growth of the timber each year would be the "crop" he is harvesting. If you sell the minerals (or oil) under the ground, it is not all profit, because the value of it was figured into the purchase price, and the land is worth that much less afterwards. With minerals there is exploration cost and many dry wells. This notion may have been stretched to the advantage of those in the "oil bidness" in the writing of the tax codes. Edison (talk) 23:40, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

source code for the c program

• Search for c source code for the function will accept character as a parameter, returns 1 if an alphabet is an char, 2 if alphabet is number and 3 if it is special symbol and in main accep character till user enter EOF and use the function to count total no of alpha,digits,and special symbol —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.161.19.148 (talk) 20:51, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

You'd have better luck with this question on the Computers Ref Desk. Dismas|^(talk) 21:13, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

I doubt it. --Sean 21:20, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

main () { printf ("Do your own homework."); } Clarityfiend (talk) 00:47, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

To be unbelievably generous to someone who is clearly trying to get others to do their work, go and look at the built-in functions that test character types in C. DJ Clayworth (talk) 14:12, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Or look at an ASCII table, this is about a 15-20 line program, if you can't figure this one out you are going to have a great deal of difficulty later, this is basicly a while loop, a scanf and an if/else if/else or two, and that's way more help than you should get. -- Mad031683 (talk) 16:21, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

ASCII? The OP's system could use EBCDIC for all we know. That's one of the reasons that the functions DJ mentioned exist. -- Coneslayer (talk) 17:10, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

True, I oversimplified based on the fact that when I was given this kind of assignment they intended us to check ASCII values, so that's my default assumption. -- Mad031683 (talk) 19:56, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Ignore Mad031683's advice to use 'scanf'. 'getchar' or 'getc' would be a vastly better choice. You'll also want to take a look at the functions that start with "is" in the C standard header file: ctype.h (eg 'isdigit(c)' returns a non-zero result if 'c' is a digit, zero if it is not. But I strongly agree that you should try to do this yourself. You'll never be a good programmer if you don't try to do these things yourself. Trust me - I've been a programmer for close to 40 years now. SteveBaker (talk) 22:52, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

U.S. Automobile Statistics

How many privately-owned automobiles (i.e., no taxis) were registered in the U.S. in 1940? How many privately-owned automobiles were registered in the U.S. in 1950? How many privately-owned automobiles were registered in the U.S. in 2008? NeedToKnowInAlbuquerque (talk) 21:07, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

The best I could find is this (http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/tables/08s1064.pdf) but it only does 1980-2005 so doesn't cover any of your things. Still I thought it might prove useful as a starting point for search terms in google (also census.gov. might be a good place to look for stats like this). Good luck ny156uk (talk) 22:22, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

U.S. Tramway/Light Rail Statistics

How many miles of commuter/light rail (subway, tramway, streetcar, elevated train, commuter rail) lines existed in the U.S. in 1930? How many miles of commuter/light rail lines existed in the U.S. in 1960? How many miles of commuter/light rail lines existed in the U.S. in 1990? NeedToKnowInAlbuquerque (talk) 21:11, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Eratosthenes

Why was being a librarian back in his time a title of more respect than it is now? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.167.172.201 (talk) 22:28, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Because historically libraries were extremely important places. Books were expensive and rare, a commodity only the richest could afford. Nowadays every homeless person in the world seems to be reading something and charity shops sell books for less than it costs to buy a chocolate bar. As a result the 'social standing' of a librarian has also changed. A library is now no longer the sole source of information for the public/people. There is the internet, tv, cheap books. Not to devaluing being a librarian - I was one myself for a few years and enjoyed it myself. ny156uk (talk) 22:43, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

And keep in mind that literacy was a mark of education which itself was a mark of some wealth for quite a long time. That started to change in the late 19th century but it didn't become totally passé until the 20th. --98.217.8.46 (talk) 22:49, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

That's interesting. Are librarians still somewhat revered in countries with high rates of illiteracy? Plasticup ^T/C 00:37, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

I would suppose the opposite: that librarians are much more respected in countries with high literacy rates, because higher literacy means more people are actually interested in being guided through the vast libraries, that might only rarely be found in countries with lower literacy rates. IMHO. --Ouro (blah blah) 09:00, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

I meant in the sense that they would be revered as keepers of information, as 98.217.8.46 suggested they used to be. Plasticup ^T/C 15:44, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

He was a lot more than "just" a librarian - he was a mathematician too. For example, his "sieve" is still one of the most used algorithms for generating large quantities of prime numbers. But I agree - being both literate and well-read, he would have received a lot of respect just for the knowledge packed into his head. SteveBaker (talk) 22:45, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

$700 billion mortgage bailout

Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson has requested that $700 billion be used to buy "illiquid" mortgage backed securities of uncertain worth from investment banks. Until May 2006, Paulson was head of Goldman Sachs, one of the main beneficiaries of the bailout. Paulson's net worth is about $700 million, per the bio article in Wikipedia. Is any of it in Goldman Sachs stock? Edison (talk) 22:34, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Here's his most recent financial disclosure form: [6]. "Goldman Sachs" appears not infrequently. --Sean 00:13, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Goldman Sachs doesn't own any of these securities. They will not be getting any of that $700bn. They benefit from this in the same way that you and I benefit: by the financial system recovering and general liquidity being restored. Plasticup ^T/C 00:36, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

If they don't own them, why are they desperate to sell them? The Miami Herald [7] says Goldman Sachs' trading division included the mortgage bonds. The New York Times [8] said the plan calls for the government to "buy bad mortgages and other rotten assets held by troubled banks and other financial institutions" so as to "improve their balance sheets." The Globe and Mail says [9] "Fears that Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley might collapse was one of the key triggers for the U.S. government's decision to buy up bad loans." Thinkprogress.org says [10] "Goldman Sachs Group Inc. and Morgan Stanley may be among the biggest beneficiaries of the $700 billion U.S. plan to buy assets from financial companies.."MarketOracle says [11] "Banks are unhappy with the size of their bailout (of which they deserve zero), simply because Goldman and Morgan are getting a bigger bailout (of which they equally deserve zero)." [12] So does Goldman need no such help? Has their CEO rejected any share of the $700 billion proposed bailout? Edison (talk) 06:11, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Like I said, they need the bailout in the same way that you and I need it. Goldman Sachs did not own lots of mortgage back securities. In fact, when the crisis hit they had a net short position on them. In those first couple months when everyone else was going down in flames, Goldman made a fortune. But their problem now is more subtle. Even though they played their cards well, the rest of the banking system is collapsing around them. No bank can exist in a vacuum. They need other functioning institutions around them to provide a marketplace. They need everyone else to have liquidity. So they are 100% behind this bailout not because they will get their hands on some of that $700bn, but because when that money stops the Great Depression Part II it will save you, me, and them as well. Plasticup ^T/C 15:24, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Just seen the news. The $700 Billion Bailout has failed in the House in Congress, and the NYSE took a header into the proverbial toilet at a (last seen) -700 points. Powerzilla (talk) 20:17, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

September 24

Top 25 Militaries

List of countries by size of armed forces Of the top 25 countries, which ones do you suppose go overkill w/ the military thing (I mean to say which countries have a large military but live in relatively safe neighborhoods and/or have few enemies).

Thailand comes to mind. What's the worst Cambodia can do even if they don't get along?

Lotsofissues (talk) 00:49, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

If we are only considering direct neighbors, what is America so worried about? Plasticup ^T/C 00:58, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Especially now that Alaska has Canada flanked.

Anyway, regarding Thailand, it's adjacent to Burma, which has been ruled by a military junta for the last 45 years. That can be plausibly construed as a cause for concern. Additionally, Cambodia was home to Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge -- another unpleasant neighbor. — Lomn 12:56, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Armies aren't always for defence from outside attack. They may be used to control internal divisions, or to form a political class, for public works, or a source of public prestige. DuncanHill (talk) 13:35, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

For example, Thailand had a military coup just two years ago. Were I Somchai Wongsawat, I would think several times before cutting army spending. Of course, another use for armies is for attacking other countries: that's the reason for the enormous US military, for example. Algebraist 13:47, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

I thought it was to keep the Military-industrial complex happy. Clarityfiend (talk) 20:26, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

That too. Anyway, it's not for defence. Algebraist 20:28, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Indeed you'd note that Myanmar is higher then Thailand on the list Nil Einne (talk) 08:43, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

I don't really think that table tells you much about it. Firstly, there is an enormous difference between having a million people armed with pointed sticks compared to ten guys running a cruise missile battery. Secondly, some countries have armies designed to ramp up enormously in size when required (Israel for example - where pretty much everyone does military service and may be called upon to go to war at any time) - versus a country which maintains a standing army that doesn't change size between wartime and peace. Yet other countries maintain armies more to protect their elite from their own rebellious citizens than to fight wars overseas. Mere numbers don't tell us very much in that regard. SteveBaker (talk)

website

is there a website where they show all the adult sites by category such as latina, asian, indian, black, white, petite and etc? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.64.130.50 (talk) 00:57, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

No. ···日本穣^{? · Talk to Nihonjoe} 03:21, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Damn. Corvus cornix_talk 05:08, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Yes. Although, I doubt that anyone has a comprehensive list of every adult site. Dismas|^(talk) 05:12, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

I think Google may come close. -Phydaux (talk) 11:57, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Why do people wearing a fedora always tip thier hat?

And why do they feel compelled to do it every single time? Whenever I'm out riding the bike, or walking around the block just mindin my own business, Tipmaster Tony has to show me the bald spot! And not just today. Check out those old videos from the 30's and 40's where you can clearly see these people with thier "good day madam" bullsh*t. Sinatra was the only one who had the dignity to leave it on (maybe that's why he was considered cool?)

And it's only a fedora. You see dudes with baseball caps, hardhats, Abraham Lincoln stovepipe thingamajigs (on Holloween and the Big L's birthday), and they're not tipping it. Sometimes when they're high or drunk they do, but then as only a diversion to look away from the mailbox they crashed into. The only exception is a magician's hat and they only tip it after a great trick. Or a screwup (there it's clearly a diversion). Why does this continue to happen in the modern era, and who can I blame for starting this rediculous custom?--THE WORLD'S MOST CURIOUS MAN (talk) 01:34, 24 September 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by THE WORLD'S MOST CURIOUS MAN (talk • contribs)

Tipping one's hat is good manners - a sign of respect to the person tipped at (the tippee?). As to why fedora wearers should have better manners than folk in baseball caps, I really couldn't say. DuncanHill (talk) 01:38, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

On the other side of the coin, I always wonder why many sportspeople conduct indoor post-match press conferences with their caps sitting tightly on their heads. This is surely poor form, no? And surely unnecessary for indoor wear in any case. Many of them don't wear any headwear while out there competing, but indoors they cover up. Crazy. -- JackofOz (talk) 02:20, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Perhaps it is that whilst playing the sport they aren't concerned with the appearance of their hair, but post-match they don't have time to 'sort' their hair so rather than looking scruffy/sweaty-haired on tv they cover it up with a cap? That's always been my assumption anyways. Oh and the potential they are paid to wear it (I think it is F1 where they have to wear they are given a cap and watch they have to wear on the podium/post race stuff). 194.221.133.226 (talk) 10:28, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

It's very bad manners indeed, but I suspect that they get paid to wear them. DuncanHill (talk) 02:31, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

While historically it may be considered bad manners, it is now considered just part of the uniform. Therefore, they don't generally take it off when they are in uniform. ···日本穣^{? · Talk to Nihonjoe} 03:20, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Military officers remove their caps when giving press conferences. -- JackofOz (talk) 21:18, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

I'm with Duncan; the cap is just another few square inches they can squeeze an ad onto. FiggyBee (talk) 06:10, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

It becomes second nature after a while, especially if your a historical recreationist. Steewi (talk) 03:04, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

I've been wondering all night what that means, Steewi. Are you referring to people who've taken a break from any adherence to historical/traditional customs; or are you referring to tipping one's hat in this day and age when it's not much done anymore? -- JackofOz (talk) 22:45, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

I believe Steewi may be referring to the practice of historical reenactment, sometimes also called "historical re(-)creation". Thylacoleo (talk) 00:55, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

That's right. It's deliberately ambiguous as recreation and re-creation. When you're used to tipping your top-hat or tricorn, you start doing it with your fedora as well (or cap, or just your fringe). It's like the Japanese bowing on the telephone stereotype (which does happen). Steewi (talk) 01:09, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

I apologise for causing you to have to explain a piece of deliberate ambiguity. I would never intentionally breach this unwritten law. -- JackofOz (talk) 03:21, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Probably because anyone wearing a fedora in this day and age is deliberately trying to look old fashioned, so they're also going with antique mannerisms and gestures of courtesy. APL (talk) 13:30, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Didn't this tradition start to show that you're hiding no weapons? Kinda like the handshake did? Couldn't you just keep a weapon in your left hand, and tip your hat with the right? THE WORLD'S MOST CURIOUS MAN (talk) 17:45, 25 September 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by THE WORLD'S MOST CURIOUS MAN (talk • contribs)

Strips of the world

If you take a land mass (e.g. the mainland of Australia), draw lines of longitude that pass through its most easterly and most westerly points, and extend them north and south, you get a vertical strip of the world that includes all or parts of: Indonesia, East Timor, Papua New Guinea, Malaysia, Brunei, Micronesia, Guam, the Marianas, the Philippines, China, Japan, North and South Korea, Mongolia, and Russia. I exclude Antarctica because every such longitudinal strip would pass through it, and it's not a country anyway.

Doing a similar exercise with lines of latitude drawn through mainland Australia's most northerly and most southerly points gives me a horizontal strip of the world that includes all or parts of: Vanuatu, Fiji, New Zealand, Tuvalu, Kiribati, Tonga, the 2 Samoas, Cook Islands, French Polynesia, Pitcairn Island, Easter Island, Peru, Bolivia, Brazil, Paraguay, Uruguay, Argentina, Chile, Tristan da Cunha, Angola, DR Congo, Zambia, Malawi, Mozambique, Zimbabwe, Botswana, Namibia, Lesotho, South Africa, Madagascar, and Mauritius. Papua New Guinea might just scrape in, but I haven't done the research to confirm this.

I may have omitted some small countries, but you get the idea. Do such "strips of the world" have a name? And which land masses would have the least number and the greatest number of other countries or parts thereof in their longitudinal and latitudinal "strips"? Which would have the greatest and least number relative to their own size? Ignore Antarctica, because it would include every country in its N-S strip and probably zero countries in its E-W strip. -- JackofOz (talk) 03:03, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

I don't know if such strips have a name, but I can pretty much guarantee that Russia dominates the vertical strips. It gets eastern Europe, all of Asia, all of Australasia, and all of the Pacific Islands. Plasticup ^T/C 03:56, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

You could find some of this information by comparing list of countries by northernmost point and list of countries by southernmost point with extreme points of Australia (or whichever landmass you are considering). This suggests that the Australian mainland extends from 10°41'S to 39°08'S, giving some overlap with countries including Papua New Guinea, Tanzania, Kiribati, Indonesia and Tuvalu. Warofdreams talk 11:50, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

I never heard of a name for such strips, but they could lead to some interesting experiments. For example, a north-south strip of Chile would be very narrow and not intersect many other countries, but the east-west strip would include far more. (Maybe I should count them!) — Michael J 18:11, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Lune (mathematics)#Spherical geometry —Tamfang (talk) 04:54, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

By coincidence, User:The Anome has just published a list of the minimum and maximum latitudes and longitudes of all countries here. Someone with time on their hands could take this & work out all manner of JackofOz Strip (as I believe they should be coined) intersections. --Tagishsimon (talk) 20:09, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

All excellent lists, which would be a good starting point for anyone who wanted to work all this out. I was really only thinking of contiguous land masses, not necessarily political territories, because one does not normally think of, for example, the UK extending as far south as South Georgia, and there's a lot of non-UK in between. I surely can't be the first person to have ever wondered about this exercise. Or is my strange little brain really that strange? (Don't answer that). I might have to see if The Anome is aware of any work that's already been done. What I have discovered from comparing lists is that the 2 countries closest to the Equator that are wholly in the northern and southern hemispheres are both in South America - Venezuela and Peru respectively. I never knew that. I respectfully decline the eponymisation suggested above because, well, it sounds ... crap. But thanks anyway. -- JackofOz (talk) 21:13, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

because one does not normally think of, for example, the UK extending as far south as South Georgia. Whilst one does think of Africa extending up through Europe. Self-confirmation of the strange brain supposition, I'm afraid. --Tagishsimon (talk) 23:45, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Does one really think that? This one has never thought so. Strange I may be, but not quite that strange. I was of course referring to South Georgia, not south Georgia or south Georgia. :) -- JackofOz (talk) 01:19, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

JackOfOz strips sound a bit racy to me. I'd be interested to know which countries' strips contain only that country (not counting Antarctic territory). Iceland is a possibility, but that seems to be about it. Steewi (talk) 02:01, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Not even Iceland, actually. According to my map, its vertical strip would intersect with Greenland, Western Sahara, Mauritania, Senegal, The Gambia, Guinea-Bissau, Guinea, and the Cape Verde Islands. -- JackofOz (talk) 02:10, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

I wonder if there are any latitudinal strips that contain only water and Antarctica. — Michael J 07:57, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

I am going to properly analyse the data provided above, but on a reasonably thorough visual scan I think the only places in the world that would fit that, Michael, are the waters around the South Orkney Islands and some of the southern members of the South Sandwich islands. You could sail due east or west from these places and the first land you encountered would be back at your starting point. Starting from any other land mass or marine point in the world, you'd inevitably run into the Americas (the big bully!), Africa, or Eurasia. Vertically, there might be an extremely thin strip of water that runs from the North Pole, through the Bering Strait, passes through the Aleutian islands, the Hawaiian islands, and the islands of Kiribati and Samoa, and then down to Antartica. But that would be the only one. So, basically, unless you live in the South Orkneys or the South Sandwich islands (and virtually nobody does), no matter where you live in the world, there's always going to be land to your north, south, east and west. Quite a neat design, really. -- JackofOz (talk) 11:57, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Presumably, you could start near the southern tip of South America, and provided you're not level with the Falkland Islands, the Kerguelen Islands or the northern South Sandwich Islands, you could sail due east or west until you arrived back at South America. Warofdreams talk 14:35, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Yep, that would probably work too. -- JackofOz (talk) 00:31, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

inbound call centres

What is the average amount of calls an inbound call centre operator takes in a day (8 hours)? Are these statistics recorded anywhere? I would prefer Australian stats if possible.

Thanks a lot. 203.202.144.223 (talk) 03:51, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

What type of business is the call center for? I've worked for a gift company in their call center and the number of calls varied drastically between December (Christmas time) and July (no large gift related holidays). On the other hand, a credit card company or something like that probably has a more steady stream year round. Dismas|^(talk) 04:08, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

I was thinking more like a customer enquiry line fora government organisation or say for a internet service provider. 203.202.144.223 (talk) 04:12, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

From personal experience of working for TalkTalk in their callcentre in Northampton, UK; I took around 30-40 inbound calls an hour with a 3-5 second gap inbetween (I once got a bonus for keeping all of my calls under 200seconds duration in a day, that was fun). This was in a call centre of 200-300 people with a call queue of never less than 2000 waiting during normal office hours. You may find some statistics relevant to you at http://www.callcentres.com.au/ , but may find that some companies are reticent about publishing their figures beyond calls resolved/time taken (or even go to the extent of charging for them. Nanonic (talk) 22:36, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

This may not help - but the image at right ==>

...shows a report from an unidentified call center. It looks like this employee was handling 500 calls in a month. However, since there is a "sales" column, we may deduce that it wasn't a "help-line" kind of thing. I would imagine that a call center that basically just takes credit card orders over the phone would require a lot less time per call than (say) the Microsoft business support center where they could spend an hour or more helping a customer track down a problem with their computer. It's going to be impossible to guess what the real numbers might be without finding data that relates to something very close to your exact business needs. SteveBaker (talk) 22:29, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

The most important determinants of daily call volume per agent are 1) Average handle time (AHT) 2) Amount of time in the "productive mode" where they are available to accept inbound calls (versus team meetings, coaching etc.) and 3) occupancy or, inversely, the average amount productive of time not spent on calls per day (which depends on call volume).

For a high-volume group, you'd want your productive mode @ about 90-95% of the agent's paid time (less if you are paying them for lunches). To avoid burnout and the resulting high attrition, you want your occupancy (or amount of that productive time spent actually on calls) at around 85%. This leaves about 6-6.5 hours per 8 hour day on calls. You have to divide this by the average handle time to determine an average call volume per day. Simple groups like credit card activations will have AHTs in the 60-120 second range (including notation time), allowing agents to handle 150-180 calls per day. More complicated groups like billing or customer service could vary in AHT from 250-600 seconds (35-80 calls per day), and lastly tech support can easily exceed that amount (10-20 calls per day).

Calls per day isn't a good measure to use to cost out a site. You should concentrate on productive hours, AHT and expected call volumes. Small groups that are open for more than 8 hours make staffing cycles much more important.NByz (talk) 06:23, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Drinkability of 40 yr old gin, whiskey and SoCo?

Hi all,

I was cleaning out my grandmother's house and found three bottles: a Seagram's Crown Royal Whiskey, a Tanqueray Gin and a bottle of Southern Comfort. There are no dates on the labels, but I'm guessing they're from around the 60s or 70s. Anyone know if they'll still be good to drink? Or even better now? I think they've been fairly temperature-controlled (and the Seagrams is even still in it's little purple pouch with it's certificate).

Thanks! — Sam 11:39, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Have they been opened? That can change things. If they have not been opened then they should be just fine. If they have been, it's a toss up. --98.217.8.46 (talk) 13:28, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

You should submit them to an expert for extensive testing. I can be contacted by email or on my talk page :) DuncanHill (talk) 13:30, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

I can't guarantee it, but I would be surprised if there was anything harmful about them (assuming they're still sealed), but they may not taste too good. I don't think they'll be any better for being older - the age of a whiskey is how long it was in the barrel, once it's in a bottle it stops changing, I believe - gin is probably similar. In addition to temperature, the other thing that could harm them is light - if they were in a dark cellar, they are likely to be better than if they were in daylight. --Tango (talk) 14:13, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Last year a friend of mine found a 22 year old bottle of André. That stuff retails at about $4. Although it tasted awful it didn't make anyone sick. Now something like whiskey which is meant to survive for years is probably okay. I would be very surprised if it wasn't. Plasticup ^T/C 15:38, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Great! Thanks for all the advice. The bottles are unopened (I would have mentioned if they were) and as far as I know have been in the dark. Sounds like I'll have to crack one open now... sigh... — Sam 16:35, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Although there are no dates on the bottles, are there any codes or other identifying marks? You might be able to contact the distillers to determine exactly when they were bottled. — Michael J 18:07, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

I think that hard liquor is much more stable than wine when exposed to oxygen. Acetobacter sp. will transform the ethanol in wine into acetic acid but they can't grow in hard liquor. I think. Please correct me if I'm wrong. ike9898 (talk) 21:51, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

I don't know the science behind it, but anecdotally, you're absolutely right. A bottle of wine, once opened, will go off within a few days, a couple of weeks tops. A bottle of spirit will last months or years. --Tango (talk) 23:44, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Whiskey does not mature/age in glass bottles it matures in oak barrels. 12 year old whiskey that spent 20 more years in a bottle is still 12 years old. But maybe you can auction that whiskey off to someone who doesn't know that. Mieciu K (talk) 01:29, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Renewing car registration in CT

The city of Stamford is saying that I owe a car tax on a vehicle I haven't owned in a year in a half. I just off the phone with the tax collector and she pretty much said so what, you still have to pay the taxes in order to renew the registration on your current vehicle which is due this month. After I pay the taxes, what do I have to do? --Anilmanohar (talk) 14:16, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Try calling the DMV at 800-842-8222. --LarryMac | Talk 14:27, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

we cannot give legal advice —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.115.175.247 (talk) 15:18, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

What's the (major) problem? As long as you don't move out of state, you can claim the equivalent credit on your CT state taxes. (I did, when I lived there.) Of course, it's annoying that you don't have use of that money for months, since they're due on different dates. Clarityfiend (talk) 19:47, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Supernatural

I am trying to find pictures of people performing supernatural acts such as levitaion, spoon bending, telekenisis, ect ect ect or anything in this vein. preferably on wiki thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.115.175.247 (talk) 15:16, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

A Google video search for David Blane might have something for you. If you are looking for still images, try the wikipedia commons category commons:Category:Magic. Plasticup ^T/C 15:34, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

computer

where can i get an answer to this question (history of computer in the past ,present and future?) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tesybless (talk • contribs) 16:09, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

You'd be well advised to start by writing a question. Then, from wikipedia, you could search for "history of computers" or similar, which might give you pointers to such articles as:

• History of computing hardware
• History of personal computers
• History of computing hardware (1960s–present)
• History of computer science
• History of computing
• Computer

As for the future, maybe:

• Biocomputers
• Optical computer

and I'm sure many other articles which will be linked to the seven or so that I've listed. --Tagishsimon (talk) 16:24, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

In addition to the links Tagishsimon posted, you may also be interested in Quantum computer. Laenir (talk) 18:08, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

There is a honking great set of tables in the Computer#Further_topics Further topics section of the Computer article (which I immodestly point out that I originally wrote) - which are just stuffed full of links to all matters relating to computers. You can find articles about every "generation" of computer there. To add to Tagishsimon and Laenir's "future-computing" links, I'd recommend Spintronics, DNA computing, Chemical computer and Nanoelectronics. SteveBaker (talk) 22:17, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

What's with the naming of History of computing hardware & History of computing hardware (1960s–present)? The first article, in {{History of computing}}, appears to be referred to as Hardware before 1960. Seems a bit odd to me. --Tagishsimon (talk) 23:00, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

What's the time in Antarctica right now?

and in the North Pole? --190.49.126.98 (talk) 19:36, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Stations in Antarctica generally keep the time of their supply bases; see South_Pole#Time, for instance, or Time zone#Additional information. No time zone has been set for the north pole - see North_Pole#Time--Tagishsimon (talk) 19:50, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Antarctica does not have a time zone, although Graham Land is technically at Universal Coordinated Time minus three hours. Plasticup ^T/C 19:53, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Oh no! Not the old logic question. Right now as when it was put on line, or right now as I am typing this response. Dealing with this question can send first year students potty... even lead to fisticuffs86.197.173.49 (talk) 14:43, 25 September 2008 (UTC)petitmichel

nursery rhymes

what did Tom, the Piper's son play in the musical rhyme —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.235.11.58 (talk) 19:51, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Pipes, like his pa. "Tom with his pipe did play with such skill" [13] --Tagishsimon (talk) 19:54, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

nursery rhymes 2

what was the only song that Tom, the Piper's son could play? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.235.11.58 (talk) 20:18, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Over the hills and far away, noted in the fourth line of the rhyme - Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son. --Tagishsimon (talk) 20:21, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Which is, incidentally, the tune the nursery rhyme is most commonly sung to. 79.66.84.84 (talk) 14:09, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

nursery rhymes 3

accourding to the nursery rhyme, who put pussy in the well?

Little Tommy Green, as is evident from a cursory reading of the rhyme. Please think about whether you could answer any of these by doing a modicum of research, such as reading the rhymes, first. --Tagishsimon (talk) 20:24, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Per all three nursery rhyme question answers...you're good Tag. --71.98.3.250 (talk) 23:26, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Racoons

what is the collective term for a group of racoons? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.235.11.58 (talk) 20:22, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Gaze, according to [14]. Google is not broken tonight. --Tagishsimon (talk) 20:25, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Be a little cautious in using those sorts of lists, though. As I understand it, a number of them, in a misguided attempt to be "complete", contain group terms which are not, nor have ever been, used commonly. For instance, they may include terms which were made up by someone else as a nonce word, or coined as a one-time joke. (e.g. from the list given: "a rash of dermatologists".) The folks at Wikipedia:Reference desk/Language may have a better understanding of the situation. -- 128.104.112.147 (talk) 22:26, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

"A gaze of raccoons" may be a pun, given the creatures' distinctive facial markings. Our article on raccoons is quite good, and it makes no mention of a "gaze". Plasticup ^T/C 23:25, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

From WP: List of animal names. -hydnjo talk 00:50, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

That is an awesome article. Thanks. Plasticup ^T/C 03:11, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

And it contains the collective noun for racoons that the OP was no doubt looking for, given the surrounding spate of questions. There is also an appendix of collective nouns on Wikitionary. I haven't compared the two lists to see if they correspond, except the racoon case, for which they do. --LarryMac | Talk 12:23, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

The book An Exaltation of Larks says it is a mask of raccoons. -- KathrynLybarger (talk) 04:30, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

What a great book! It should be in every Ref Desk Regular's library. -- JackofOz (talk) 05:17, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

I've always liked a flourish of strumpets and a grasp of millionaires. --- OtherDave (talk) 12:42, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

My favourite is this progression: a plenitude of freshmen, a platitude of sophomores, a gratitude of juniors, an attitude of seniors, a fortitude of graduate students, an avunculus of alumni, a clamber of assistant professors, a tenure of associate professors, an entrenchment of full professors, and an ex cathedra of professors emeriti". -- JackofOz (talk) 20:08, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Both wiki sources say "a nursery of raccoons". It appears we have a conflict on our hands. Plasticup ^T/C 15:41, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Whatever a group of raccoons may be called, it would be a technical term even scientists don't use. --Novil Ariandis (talk) 17:29, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

You'll probably come across it in archaic literature though. Plasticup ^T/C 21:44, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

I doubt it. If you plug those sorts of things into Google Books all you get are similarly fanciful lists of what groups of animals are called. I suspect most of these terms are created for, and exclusively used in, such silly lists. --98.217.8.46 (talk) 23:23, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Sporting ground

what sporting ground is The Nursery End, the Pavillion End and St john's Road linked with? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.235.11.58 (talk) 20:34, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Lord's Cricket Ground. Tell me you're doing a pub quiz... -Tagishsimon (talk) 20:51, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

(And for future reference - Google Maps is pretty good at finding that sort of information.) SteveBaker (talk) 22:05, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Women leaving the Roman Catholic Church.

Dear Reference Desk.

Can you send me infornation on: Women leaving the Roman Catholic Church.

I understand that this situation is getting worst year after year, but this year, it is at its highest.

Thank you. (email removed by User:Plasticup to save you from spam bots) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.98.234.97 (talk) 20:49, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

According to our article: Roman Catholic Church..."Church membership in 2007 was 1.131 billion people; a substantial increase over the 1970 figure of 654 million." - if the membership nearly doubled over the last 37 years, it's unlikely that the total number of women can have decreased over the same period. Hence, (if you are right) it seems likely that it's a fairly recent phenomenon. SteveBaker (talk) 22:04, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Of course, that depends on how those numbers are counted. If it's simply the number of people who have been baptised, it's a misleading figure because it doesn't allow for people who have decided to no longer be associated with the church but have not put anything in writing. This would include many millions of people who were baptised as tiny babies but have, at least since they were adults, decided the church's way was not their way. Even if they did formally "resign", I suspect the church would still consider them members in any case. -- JackofOz (talk) 22:36, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

You could say that the church's situation with women is getting worse even if their gross numbers are increasing. If they made up 50% of the membership in 1970 and only make up 45% now, I would say that is indicative of... something. Plasticup ^T/C 23:22, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

This is purely anecdotal, but having gone to Catholic schools all my life, I do not know any women my age who wanted to become a nun; I know several men who have become priests, though. (I also know several women who have become Anglican priests...) Despite that, the numbers of men and women who are totally and annoyingly devout are pretty much the same. Adam Bishop (talk) 02:34, 25 September 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.210.170.49 (talk)

Annoyingly devout? I have no issue with people being devout. I guess you're referring to those who can't keep their devotion to themselves but project their religious philosophies onto others in a judgmental way. -- JackofOz (talk) 03:15, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Right, I mean one of the cliques in a Catholic high school is the really really Catholic kids :) Adam Bishop (talk) 03:35, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

That reminds me of the missionaries who came knocking on my door, calling themselves "elders" (they would be asked for ID if they walked into a liquor shop) and trying to speak to me in horrible Chinese. --antilived^{T | C | G} 06:23, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Count me among those who would be considered Catholic by baptism but no longer associate with the Church. I've always said the greatest cure for catholicism is 13 years of Catholic school, of my entire graduating class I know of maybe 3 people who have anymore association with the church than celebrating Easter and Christmas. The church is struggling especially here in the Los Angeles area becuase of recent scandals involving Cardinal Mahoney (he was one of the first things that drove me away) -- Mad031683 (talk) 23:35, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Yes, he and his ilk might have cause to reflect on "By their fruits shall ye know them" (fruits here referring to deeds, as opposed to words). It's not only the Catholics that have a problem with this - in 2003 our Governor-General, Peter Hollingworth, an Anglican Archbishop, had to stand down because of issues of this nature. -- JackofOz (talk) 00:28, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

concise recapitulation of the patients course hospital

what is a concise recapitulation of the patients course in the hospital? a. discharge summary b. medical history c. social services record d. progress reports —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.48.187.149 (talk) 21:39, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Probably a., but we don;t do homework. --Tagishsimon (talk) 21:45, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Seeing as how its your homework, I'll tell you that it's definitely c. DJ Clayworth (talk) 15:12, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

good haircut

what would be a good haircut for a man with a square face? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.210.46.125 (talk) 22:40, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

It's a matter of opinion, and we try to avoid opinion questions. --Tagishsimon (talk) 23:20, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Although my quick research shows that often men with square faces don't have hair at all. Gwinva (talk) 23:30, 24 September 2008 (UTC) Striking out my facetious comment; apologies for being flippant. Tango and Tagishsimon offer sound advice. Gwinva (talk) 23:53, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

fwiw, I thought your advice was apt & to the point. --Tagishsimon (talk) 09:37, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Your barber/hairdresser can probably advise you better than we can - it's their area of expertise. --Tango (talk) 23:42, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Probably something angular or square like, like Kid-n-play? Bilodeauzx (talk) 03:48, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

(my comment keeps disappearing? Any ideas) Logically if you have a square face you have two options: 1) a hair-cut that highlights the 'strength' and angularity of your face-structure or 2) a hair-cut that 'softens' the edges off to make your face appear more round. Try this link (http://beauty.about.com/od/hairbasics/a/flattering.htm) 194.221.133.226 (talk) 10:59, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

If all else fails, you can never be wrong when you shave your head altogether. --Ouro (blah blah) 06:28, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

We must have an article on How notable people with hair on their heads would look if they were bald. If we don't, we should. Btw, what's the hairy counterpart of "bald"? "Fred is bald, but George is ____". -- JackofOz (talk) 22:44, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

September 25

New York Times

When i was young after reading the NY times i was left with black smudges all over my hands from the newsprint. However, now the NY times does not seem to do this. Does anyone know why? Bilodeauzx (talk) 03:47, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

I still get that from the free Chinese newspapers so I'm guessing it's a matter of better/more expensive ink? --antilived^{T | C | G} 06:20, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Or greasier fingers when you were younger? Antilived will be right though, it'll be down to the inks used. Here's an interesting read (http://pubs.acs.org/cen/whatstuff/stuff/7646scit2.html) on the matter of inks. About half-way through it gets onto asking about why ink on newspapers sometimes rubs off onto your fingers. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.221.133.226 (talk) 09:03, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Or perhaps you just didn't have a butler to iron your newspaper? Gwinva (talk) 09:06, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

There are two evening free newspapers given to commuters in London. One of them has, since it started, had a masthead reading "Printed with ink that won't come off on your fingers". The other one doesn't. Sam Blacketer (talk) 09:18, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

My NYTimes still gets smudges on my fingers if I manhandle it too much (e.g. when I spend a long time on the crossword). --98.217.8.46 (talk) 12:23, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

According to our article, in the late 1980's and early 1990's, most newspapers switched over to soy ink, instead of the previous petroleum-based formulations. Although the article doesn't say, it could be that soy ink is less prone to rubbing off then petroleum inks. The article does say that papers need less soy ink than petroleum ink to achieve the same effect, which may limit rub-off. -- 128.104.112.147 (talk) 17:51, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Vandalism fixation

Unfortunately I have a growing fixation with vandalising Wikipedia. I have tried to stop myself, but I feel it will only be a short time before I succumb to temptation and start adding penis pictures or "is gay" messages all over the articles. It's becomimng very hard to do anything productive online as I find myself drawn to the Wikipedia sandbox, and now even that is not enough. Can anyone give me any help or advice? 86.144.132.118 (talk) 11:05, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

We cannot give medical advice here. Consult a psychiatrist if you need help. Algebraist 11:13, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Without going into 'medical advice' I would suspect an amount of vandalisation is a result of boredom and/or desire for attention. To relief your boredom there are many wonderful online-game sites such as miniclip.com (my personal favourite), or there are sites such as digg.com that aggregate news and 'interesting' stories. To relieve a desire for attention perhaps try answer questions on the reference desks? Often I don't know the answers but with a little online-research you can help. It helps you feel 'good' because people listen to you and it also helps others whilst garnering attention. Rather than being destructive look for ways to satisfy the urges by being non-destructive. You could also speak with your doctor about urges and self-control as it may be they can help in other ways.

194.221.133.226 (talk) 11:34, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

If you really feel the desire to vandalize, here would be a great place to do it. It is on my top 5 favorite websites of all time. Next to wikipedia, rottentomatoes, and youtube of course.

www.uncylopedia.org —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dlo2012 (talk • contribs) 13:16, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

You could also try channeling your urge to show off and attract attention (which is what vandalism often is) by doing something requiring two or three more neurons than "Fred is gay" does. Like, f'rinstance, contributing at the Reference Desk, joining a Wikipedia project, working as a wikignome. I'm a generalist with the occasional pocket of more extensive knowledge, but I can't endure the battle-of-the-bigots that I see so often in articles. So, I hang out here, and try to resist too much soapboxing. I also try and resists telling off the more tendentious soaxboxers, who will not recognize themselves in this comment.

And, you know, there's life outside of Wikipedia, hard as it is for some to imagine. Turn off the computer for a while. If you can't do that for 48 hours, it may be a good sign you need to. --- OtherDave (talk) 13:31, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

self control —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.115.175.247 (talk) 13:48, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Perhaps look into the opposite sex? --Sean 15:18, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Answering questions on the Reference Desks has helped me keep away from vandalism, at least large scale vandalism anyway, and I've learned a lot from researching my answers and reading the other replies. If you really want to vandalize I suggest you don't do it on Wikipedia, because the wikilife of a inexperienced vandal is relatively low here and once you get blocked even if you want to help out you can't. Things you can do instead are: find something online other than vandalism that you enjoy, when you feel the urge to vandalize go to a different website, or as others have mentioned there is always that addictive MMRPG called "real life". JessicaThunderbolt 16:01, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

MMRPG called "real life"? I find my character class in that MMRPG (a hybrid of "Student" and "Network Technician") to be quite dull at times. Perhaps if I could level up to "Husband" it would make it more interesting. Useight (talk) 17:11, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Have you tried a chaotic alignment? -- Coneslayer (talk) 17:29, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

If you want attention, build an article on a subject you care about and get it up to good or featured article status. Not quite as quick as "Bob is gay" but infinitely more satisifying knowing that your work is appreciated. -- _{Escape Artist Swyer} ^Talk _{Contributions} 00:07, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Or, if you really can't resist the temptation to vandalise, you could at least start to redress the sexual orientation imbalance by writing "Bob is straight". That's what I'd do if I were a vandal. (Disclaimer: The foregoing flippant remarks are not to be construed as an invitation to vandalise, or support for vandalism.) -- JackofOz (talk) 01:00, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

Finally! Someone who saw this was a joke. Saintrain (talk) 04:03, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

Facebook

Is there a way to tell who actually opened up a Facebook account? If not, from where they opened it up? --Anilmanohar (talk) 13:55, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

The people that run the site almost certainly can, but I very much doubt anyone else can. Wikipedia restricts that information to a very small group, I would be surprised if Facebook doesn't do the same. --Tango (talk) 14:35, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

sex differences in internet use

It is a commonplace observation that women are able to multitask and men cannot. It is a commonplace observation that those individuals most immersed in computers and the internet are male. Obviously these are generalisations. One social change commented upon over the last ten years or so is the impact of prolonged and submersive internet use on our thinking and interaction patterns. (See for example the recent Financial Times anecdotal article and interviews here.) One theme is that our attention is being fractured; some observers see this as wholy negative, while others see more positive possibilities. So we have two conflicting ideas: that the so-called male brain can only cope with one information stream at a time, and that many men and boys thrive in an atmosphere of information bombardment (multiple screens on computers, phones, TVs simultaneously). My question is, is there any serious research on this? And how are these conflicting tendencies reconciled? BrainyBabe (talk) 15:37, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

I have never heard of a legitimate scientific study that concluded that men can only cope with one information stream at a time or cannot multitask. I think those assumptions are sexist and not scientifically verified. This question may fit better on the science desk. - Lambajan 17:04, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

You may be interested in Confirmation bias. - Lambajan 17:06, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Hmm, interesting. As a guy, I like to think I can multitask decently. I do use two monitors on my computer and one often is showing a movie. When I watch TV, I typically watch two shows at once, flipping back and forth between the two when my preferred of the two reaches a commercial break. This does result in sometimes missing important plot lines, so it's not the best idea. However, I do have trouble reading and listening to music at the same time. Useight (talk) 17:08, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

I count every interrupt no matter how short as taking up 15 minutes so I can get back into the flow if I have to think about something or do something complicated. So I'm definitely not a multitasker. I'm of the male persuasion and use the internet quite a bit. I'll be interested too in seeing what any study says, People can for instance talk or listen to the radio whilst doing something completely routine but I'd be surprised if anything else much could be multitasked effectively. I think people should switch off any popups for mail or anything like that if they want to do a good job Dmcq (talk) 17:15, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

As a note, it's not inherently sexist to ask if one sex or gender does things differently than the other. The sexism can definitely creep in to how such questions are investigated and what meanings are drawn from them but the question itself is not inherently sexist. --98.217.8.46 (talk) 01:26, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

There is any amount of Human factors research conducted. The tabloid characterisations of male and female abilities you used as your examples are, with no disrespect meant to you, not worth the paper it would take to write them out on. --Tagishsimon (talk) 17:30, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Human multitasking has a bit about this. Quoting from it 'In general, these studies have disclosed that people show severe interference when even very simple tasks are performed at the same time'. Dmcq (talk) 17:58, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Indeed humans are incredibly poor multitaskers. Even worse then Windows 1.0... Nil Einne (talk) 08:23, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

There have been lots of studies on gender differences in multitasking. Google it. I'm not sure it's decisive one way or the other. But the studies are out there. --98.217.8.46 (talk) 23:50, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Perhaps I should have clarified that "multitasking" can involve more than paying attention to electronic information. A female (sympathetic) journalist was commenting on the recent resignation of Ruth Kelly from the British Cabinet, "to spend more time with her family". The journalist said that once she had interviewed Kelly by phone, and only after a few minutes had figured out -- and the politician had admitted -- that the splashing sounds were of the two year old being bathed. Good thing the phone didn't drop in the water. I'll try re-posting this on the Science Desk, as suggested. BrainyBabe (talk) 11:15, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

iPod to cassette player accessories

Just bought a 2nd hand car and i dont want to spend money on a sound system as im off to uni in about a year so i want to get an iPod to cassette player accessory so i can listen to music. Know of any? --212.120.246.239 (talk) 17:44, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

If a Cassette tape adaptor is what you are looking for, try this [15] cheers, 10draftsdeep (talk) 17:54, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

It would probably be easier to do iPod to FM. One of the most popular accessories that does this is the iTrip. It's made by Griffin if I remember right. That way, you can take the system to a friend's car (which may not have a cassette player). Also, you may want to check to see if the stock radio has an AUX input on the back of the head unit. That way there's no loss of sound quality as compared to FM or cassette adapters. A cord going from the AUX to the iPod would be <$10. Dismas|^(talk) 17:57, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Dismas has a good point. You can find an FM transmitter (personal device) with this link: [16] cheers, 10draftsdeep (talk) 18:22, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

In my area, an iPod-to-FM solution really isn't useful because everybody and their brother is already radiating an FM signal on nearly every "empty" FM channel. Years ago, this was a viable strategy (and we own several iPod-to-FM gadgets because of this), but nowadays, you'll get to hear Howard Stern's filthy mouth break into your Beethoven every few cars. So we've reverted to the much-lower-tech but much more effective iPod-to-cassette adapters with one as a permanent feature of each car.

Atlant (talk) 22:00, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Seriously? Most of the FM transmitters I have seen (like the iTrip) only have a range of a few feet or so, and overpower anything else that is on the station. --98.217.8.46 (talk) 23:19, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Seriously. One of the devices I've used is an iTrip (the one whose frequency is set by sending it a series of audio tones.) I found its performance (against the competion from XM/Sirius converters) to be pathetic. The previous device I used was called (IIRC) the "Sound Sender" and it was no great shakes either until I added an external antenna to the transmitter. Then, it was powerful enough not to be constantly over-ridden by my neighbors on the highway but it used an LC tank circuit (instead of digital frequency synthesis) to generate the carrier wave so it tended to drift in frequency as it warmed up, its battery discharged, and it was subject to road shock and vibration.

Atlant (talk) 03:13, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

That's crazy. I guess I don't use my FM transmitter on the highway, just indoors (old stereo system). Anyway, didn't realize there was that much bleed—would have expected FCC regulations to be on top of something like that. --98.217.8.46 (talk) 18:37, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

Or just get a pair of iPod speakers and duct-tape them to your car doors! (Well, seriously - some speakers come on little stands that you could screw onto the dashboard somewhere.) SteveBaker (talk) 22:01, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

I use a cassette adaptor and couldn't be happier with it. For one thing, you never get the static or interference that comes with using an FM adaptor, and for another, most FM adaptors are stuck right up against the power source, while most cassette adaptors have a long cord, which means other people in the vehicle can control the iPod while the driver is busy driving, which is rather convenient. I got mine for only about $20 and well worth it. Cherry Red Toenails (talk) 01:30, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

Roosevelt Reservation

Where can I find information about the Roosevelt Reservation, sometimes referred to as the Roosevelt Easement? My understanding is that this is a 60-foot wide strip of land along the U.S. border with Mexico that was somehow designated for U.S. government ownership/control. I would like to learn more about how this was created, what rules exist for that area, etc. I can find nothing on this via an Internet search except some vague references to it.

Per this document, it was established by Presidential Proclamation (which appears to be distinct from an Executive Order, as it's not noted among Roosevelt's) to help counter smuggling between the US and Mexico. One source notes this with "(35 Stat., part II, p. 2136)" -- I'm not sure what that references, but perhaps it will be useful information. — Lomn 19:25, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Lomn, thanks for the info. I'm still trying to track down the actual text of that Presidential Proclamation. Below is some general info on Presidential Proclamations versus Executive Orders that you might find interesting. By the way, this is my first time on a Wikepedia Reference Desk (that's where I am, right?) and so if I'm not following proper protocol somebody let me know (e.g., I noticed there is no user info for me on here but don't know if/how I am to add that).

[wish I could figure how to indent this]

"Presidential proclamations and executive orders are legal documents and have the same effect as laws. Executive orders are authorized by the President's statutory or constitutional powers. Proclamations are issued by virtue of the President's office, by law, or in response to congressional joint resolutions. Although there is no legal difference between the two documents, most proclamations address the general public while executive

orders are generally used to direct government agencies or officials."

I've indented it so you can see how, anonymous writer. Also, please sign your posts with --~~~~ so you won't be so anonymous! You can also press the button to insert it for you. --Sean 22:52, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Perhaps someone should start the Roosevelt Reservation article... Dismas|^(talk) 02:16, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

I have added a reference that includes the text of the Presidential Proclamation of May 27, 1907, to the Roosevelt Reservation article.

Dog Emergencies

I recently got a dog, and I was wondering if I am allowed to call 9-1-1 for an emrgency with him. Say that a tree branch fell on him or he somehow was bleeding profusely. Would I call 9-1-1 to get help for him? If not, what would I do? Thank You! Grango242 (talk) 21:40, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

No - you should establish a relationship with a nearby vet - who will be able to give you the number for a pet emergency center, or perhaps a 'call out' number for his/her surgery. It's a good idea to get established with a local vet anyway - just like a family doctor, you pet will do better if he gets consistent care from a vet who keeps his records and knows his history. SteveBaker (talk) 21:57, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

SteveBaker is right. You need a main vet anyway, so get one of those set up ASAP anyway (esp. if you just got the dog -- they need shots regularly, pills to keep them from getting heart worms, etc., and you need someone who can remind you when to bring him in), and they can give you the info on after-hours places for emergencies. Fortunately vets are not nearly as expensive as human doctors (though they still ain't cheap). --98.217.8.46 (talk) 22:55, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

The 9-1-1 dispatcher will have an unpredictable concern depending on other things going on (you'll be LAST on the list). I agree with Steve and 98.217..., have a relationship with a nearby vet that you've used and trust. You'll need them anyway for routine exams and shots and you'll be surprised how accommodating they'll be in an emergency; a good vet operation prides themselves about that kind of service and a lousy one won't care. The differences even within a competitive neighborhood are amazing.

If and when something bad happens on a holiday weekend (that's when shit happens) is no time to start looking. hydnjo talk 01:44, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Our vet has a 'call out' service for emergencies outside of office hours - the vets in our area get together and take it in turns to man a hotline number. So if we did have a dire emergency, there is always a vet office in the area that'll open their doors and deal with an emergency...but if the animal isn't in any immediate risk - they'll advise you on things you can do yourself and make you wait until the next morning for your regular vet. In addition, there is actually a full-scale pet hospital about 20 miles from us who do major emergencies and they are open 24/7. You can call out a "pet ambulance" too - but it's crazy-expensive and because they aren't allowed to use flashing lights and sirens, you're probably better off getting your dog to the vet yourself. Vet offices are also good places to get information about dog training courses, to buy bulk dogfood...you name it. SteveBaker (talk) 03:39, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Thank You! Grango242 (talk) 19:49, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Business Subsidiary Question

Hi. I'm working on improving the article Chevys Fresh Mex, which was owned by Real Mex Restaurants. I just found a ref which says that Real Mex was bought out by Sun Capital Partners Inc. So my question is, in the infobox on the Chevys Fresh Mex article, do I put that the parent company is Real Mex or Sun Capital? Thanks. :) Intothewoods29 (talk) 21:43, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Questions about writing for Wikipedia are better directed at the Wikipedia:Help desk - but in this case, that infobox system is "owned" by Portal:Companies - so I'd head over to Portal_talk:Companies and ask your question there. I don't participate in Portal:Companies but we've had this problem over and over in Portal:Cars and generally, we've taken the view that the immediately parent company is the one to use - which in your case is "Real Mex" - but the folks over on Portal:Companies may well have established community standards...so you should definitely ask there. SteveBaker (talk) 21:53, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. That's what I thought too. I'll ask just in case, but I've never really gotten a response in the past from those company people. :) Intothewoods29 (talk) 21:58, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

September 26

Fishfight

Which would win in a fight: a cat or a fish the size of a cat?

Depends - if it was fought on land, the cat wins. If in water, probably the fish. -mattbuck (Talk) 02:06, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Walking catfish are about 30 cm long, can breathe air, and can travel overland. They have a sting. When they first turned up as in invasive species in Florida there were anecdotal reports of them defeating cats in fights, but I could not find anything online reporting such an event. Edison (talk) 03:23, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

In ROTC, the cat would win, in athletics, the fish would win. GO-PCHS-NJROTC ^(Messages) 20:25, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

Dog dental cleaning?

Recently we got a new dog in the Crypticfirefly household. (A two year old mutt from the shelter that looks like he has some beagle in him. Cute as heck. But I digress.)

When we took him to the vet, we were told that we should sign the dog up for a dental plan to have the dog's teeth cleaned just like what is done when a human goes to the dentist. I don't mind the expense if it is something the dog needs, but they will have to knock him out with anesthesia to do it. That sounds dangerous and potentially traumatic to me. Is this a typical practice? And for those who have had this done for their dogs, how did the dog take it? Crypticfirefly (talk) 02:35, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

We never take our dogs to the vet specifically for that - but if the dog needs anaesthesia for any other reason - we have them do whatever dental work is necessary. Dogs that are fed the right stuff SHOULDN'T need it. I don't think it's traumatic for the dog - a quick jab - then they wake up with cleaner teeth. I do believe it's potentially risky though - there is no such thing as 100% safe anaesthetic. SteveBaker (talk) 03:12, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Ahem. My mother has a dog that she's particularly crazy about. It's an 11-year-old mixture of german shepard dog and caucasian shepard dog. In recent years they take him occassionally to the vet just to have his teeth cleaned, and he's not getting any inappropriate food. It still is strange to me, because it seems dogs had taken care of their teeth without vets for the last few thousand years, why should they start now? Cheers, Ouro (blah blah) 06:23, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

While I'm not suggesting you do it, it's worth bearing in mind that 1) Most domestic pets including dogs live far longer then their wild relatives did 2) The food you feed them now is likely to be quite a bit different from what they ate in the wild, or even 200 years ago (although this doesn't definitely mean it may make the problem worse in fact it could reduce the problem) 3) It's likely animals in the wild do in fact suffer from teeth problems and in some instances it contributes to their death Nil Einne (talk) 08:19, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Descaling and cleaning isn't needed if dogs have things to gnaw on - bones are good. That's the natural thing and it's worked well for both of our dogs. On the rare occasions they've been to the vet for something else, he's pronounced their teeth as "perfect". When you compare the lives of wild dogs (Wolves live around 10 years in the wild) to pets - it's easy to assume that old dogs will have bad teeth just like old humans do - because they've outlived their natural lives by maybe 5 years. But remember when a dog is 15 years old and about ready to head out to "doggie heaven", his teeth are the same age as a human at age maybe 20 (dogs lose their 'baby teeth' very early). People can EASILY live to the age of 20 without needing any dental treatment at all - especially if their diet is good. Dog teeth are pretty much made of the same stuff as human teeth - why wouldn't they last just as long? Dogs don't (ok - "shouldn't") have nasty stuff like sugar and acidic sodas in their diet. What the vet does is to "clean and de-scale" the dog's teeth - but that's what gnawing does - scraping the teeth against a chunk of bone scrapes the gunk off of them quite naturally. You can even buy synthetic bones that are designed specifically to clean your dog's teeth. SteveBaker (talk) 12:40, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Just a side question. Do you reckon humans would benefit from some similar gnawing Fribbler (talk) 13:12, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

We have pretty different teeth than dogs do. And we can brush our own teeth. --98.217.8.46 (talk) 14:35, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, I suppose brushing fulfils that role. Fribbler (talk) 15:01, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

General anesthesia is indeed routine for dental cleanings in dogs and cats. It's similar to your routine cleanings at the dentist, but dogs and cats aren't very good at the "open wide" thing and would be likely to bite the vet due to discomfort. That would obviously be bad for the vet, and also bad for the dog if there's pointy tools in his mouth. Wild animals don't "take care" of their teeth. They just die before the teeth give them problems, or die because the teeth give them problems. If you've ever had a bad toothache, I don't see why you would wish that on your dog. -- Coneslayer (talk) 11:11, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Note that there are also a number of specialty products that can help your dog's dental hygiene. Our dog loves the treats marketed under the name "Greenies" which accomplish the knawing bit in a safer way than actual bones (can't splinter), are not filling the way a bone is, and have stuff in them to make the dog's breath smell less doggy. But I think I'm in the same boat as SteveBaker here—I don't recall ever needing to knock the dog out to brush her teeth by itself, but occasionally when other things are being done they do that as well. But it might vary from vet to vet, dog to dog. --98.217.8.46 (talk) 14:35, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Putin invades US airspace?

In Sarah Palin's first unscripted interview she talked about Putin rearing his head and sending planes into Alaskan airspace. Has this ever happened? Has it happened in the last decade? Has it happened in her tenure as governor? I assumed that I would have heard of such an encroachment when it happened, but did I miss it? Plasticup ^T/C 02:46, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

This has something on Russian bombers at times coming closer to Alaskan airspace than they used to, although it doesn't look like they actually flew into Alaskan airspace. A google search shows a number of these incidents happening in the last few years in various places. I don't know that this is really that big a deal, though. I think this used to happen all the time during the Cold War. AlexiusHoratius 03:11, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

I have seen no evidence that the Governor of Alaska directed the air force response to Russian plane approaching U.S. air space, or that she was even informed at the time it was happening. Edison (talk) 03:15, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Late flash:[17] Palin "received briefings" about Russian plane approaches to U.S. air space. No info yet on whether it was via hotline or if it was via an email on her Yahoo account after the fact. Edison (talk) 03:53, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Yeah? She would know ya know - she can see Russia from her house. hydnjo talk 03:44, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Oh, those articles are about Russian planes which stayed in Russian airspace, just near American airspace. From the way she said "incursions into US airspace" I thought that she meant the planes entered US airspace. Like, incursions and stuff. My mistake. Plasticup ^T/C 04:59, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Oh dear. I watched in horror as Blair convinced people that Saddam had weapons of mass destruction and I think he even believed it himself. They thought Saddam had missiles ready to launch on Britain within the hour. You can see how paranoid the Russians can become about something like the missile tracking in Poland - and they actually have been invaded. It just doesn't seem possible to convince people using logic, you say something like how do you rate the chances he has WMDs?, and then you check the sites various people say have them and find nothing - that should reduce the chance you say he has them. Not so - they just say oh he must be even more crafty and deceitful than we thought. Dmcq (talk) 10:51, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

I think we must assume that Russia still has WMDs, as well as missiles and airplanes to deliver them. Edison (talk) 14:19, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

I hope there aren't too many people who now think Russia is invading America like in Britain they though Saddam had missiles ready to launch on them. Just combine that with the number of American rapture nutters who think they should help God with his great task by ending the world. Dmcq (talk) 16:58, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

I don't think anyone in Britain (some MPs and newspaper proprietors excepted) actually believed Blair and Bush when they claimed that Iraq had such capabilities. DuncanHill (talk) 17:04, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

People had no reason not to believe it. In fact, there was very strong evidence that Iraq had WMDs, since the US had given them to it! I'm sure there were polls done at the time which would tell us for sure, but I expect plenty of people believed what they were told. --Tango (talk) 18:29, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Well, here is a poll from a month after the invasion saying 58% of people though we were right to invade. That doesn't necessarily mean they believed there were WMDs, they could have supported the war for other reasons, but it's still an interesting statistic. --Tango (talk) 18:36, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

A good number of Americans think that they did find WMDs in Iraq. There was some poll awhile back that asked people that and found that a huge number of people who got their information exclusively from Fox News were under this delusion among others (e.g. cooperation between Osama and Saddam, etc.). Anyway, I don't think anyone thinks Russia is going to invade the US anytime soon. --98.217.8.46 (talk) 22:16, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

John Howard sent Australian troops to Iraq. Questioned at the time about WMDs, he said that there was plenty of evidence that Saddam had WMDs, and that an invasion of Iraq could not have been justified without such evidence. In that interview, he specifically said that regime change per se would have been insufficient justification to go in, and he would never have sent the troops in on that basis alone. After the WMD evidence proved to be non-existent, and he even publicly acknowledged they were never there to begin with, that didn't phase him one little bit. Now, according to him, it was still the right decision, and would have been even if WMDs were never a factor. Go figure. -- JackofOz (talk) 22:35, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

In other words, he's a politician. --Tango (talk) 00:37, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

Not any longer. -- JackofOz (talk) 23:26, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

Apart from those Americans that think Russia has already invaded the US - namely the state of Georgia. --Tango (talk) 00:37, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

Honestly I think that might be an improvement. ;-) --98.217.8.46 (talk) 18:34, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

job opportunity for technical cum management student

i have done Masters of Computer Application and currently working for a multinational IT company. simultaneouly i am pursuing MBA in correspondence. so please suggest me what type of jobs i can go for utilizing my both the skills.125.17.25.8 (talk) 04:36, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Cum management? Plasticup ^T/C 05:53, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Technical and management student is perhaps a more felicitous formulation. Itsmejudith (talk) 13:26, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

I believe "cum" is Latin for "with" and is perfectly correct in that context. --Tango (talk) 15:52, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

I can imagine several instances where the phrase technical cum management is perfectly correct, but so far as I know, ILM doesn't do any of the effects for porn movies. Matt Deres (talk) 19:04, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

How about technical writing. Great need for Manuals to be easy-to-follow, and most are not. Money in it OK.86.209.155.170 (talk) 16:21, 26 September 2008 (UTC)DT

If I were you, I'd try to seek out Tech companies that are in the process of registering for an IPO. If the concept is strong enough that it both needs and justifies a ton of capital for expansion, chances are it would be a good move to get in on the ground floor. I would do some google searches for "IPO watching"-type websites (there aren't a lot of IPOs going on right now because of financial conditions; this just means that any that you do happen to find in the tech sector must be particularly good!) and once you find a couple, harass their HR departments.NByz (talk) 19:37, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Obviously you'd want to use your MBA and Comp. Sci. skills to assess how good the idea is... NByz (talk) 19:38, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Technical writing is certainly one possibility - but if you prefer creative writing, you could take a shot at the computer games business - we're always on the lookout for someone who can put together a decent plot, have characters that are deep and believable - yet also be someone with the computer skills necessary to interact with the art, design and software disciplines. SteveBaker (talk) 22:14, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

How to guide in Spanish

Does anybody know some how-to web-site (like about.com) in Spanish? Mr.K. (talk) 08:20, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Assuming you speak Spanish, you could ask at the Spanish reference desk. --HughCharlesParker (talk - contribs) 13:24, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

BOOKS

Hi everybody, Has anybody read the book, Diaries of doing time until the ICE MEN cometh? I understand Eugene o"neil had a similar book called Ice man. Fluter. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 170.86.15.15 (talk) 14:46, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

There is definately an Eugene O'Neill play called The Iceman Cometh. I don't really know what you're talking about, however. Redsolidarch (talk) 15:16, 26 September 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Redsolidarch (talk • contribs)

Lakeland Open

Does anyone know about the Lakeland Open - it is trying to be deleted and I wish it could be saved. Redsolidarch (talk) 15:02, 26 September 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Redsolidarch (talk • contribs)

The article in its present form is very sparse and includes no references. A search on Google comes up with a website (poorly designed) for the club but there is no mention there of an open golf tournament. IMO, unless the article is masively improved in the next couple of days it would be correct to delete it. If you care about the article, why not add (referenced) facts - such details of the club (EG where it is, when it was founded etc) and more particularly of the Open tournament (Eg when it is, what standard it is, who has won it each year). Should this all happen then it may be savable, but in that case it should probably be moved to a page with a fuller name than "Lakeland Open". -- SGBailey (talk) 20:57, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

The second Stone Rat.

A while ago, I was informed that there was a Stone Rat to be found in Queens Park, Brighton. Intrigued, I looked it up on the internet, and found this reference to it here. Sure enough, there was the Stone Rat!

Now my friend informs me that there is a second stone rat in Queens Park. Is this true, or is he making it up? Bradley10 (talk) 15:41, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

I've lived in Brighton for over ten years, and had never noticed that before! I have asked the members of Wikipedia:WikiProject Brighton if they can shed any light on this. DuncanHill (talk) 16:03, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Cheers Duncan - I was hoping that I would spot the stone rat of my own sharp eyedness, but had to resort to the internet to find him. Bradley10 (talk) 16:12, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

I won't have time for a week or so (visiting family) but when I get back to Brighton I will go and have a look for myself. DuncanHill (talk) 16:18, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

When we've all had fun bumping into each other in Queens Park in search of the second stone rat, we could head for Chichester Cathedral to spot the wooden mice. Itsmejudith (talk) 19:13, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

What is the name of this item of dishware?

ok this is possibly a silly question with an obvious answer, but I'm wondering what the name is for those big, usually silver coloured, plate cover things stereotypically associated with high cuisine. Here's a stylised representation of one: [18] (it's the thing on top of the plate in his right hand). --Krsont (talk) 15:57, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

They call it a "Silver Dome Plate Cover" here, and a Silverware Service Dinner Plate Cover here... Bradley10 (talk) 16:00, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

thanks, I guess there isn't a specific word for it then other than just "plate cover". Kind of irritating but I'll get over it ;) --Krsont (talk) 16:48, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

We actually just had this question Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2008_September_19#food_cover_name.3F. The names which were fronted were "dome plate", "Dome cover", "Domed serving tray" and "Cloche". -- 128.104.112.147 (talk) 19:50, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Wow that's a weird coincidence. "Cloche" was more what I was looking for, some specific terminology like that. Although possibly it's only called that in French I guess? "domed serving tray" and the like is just too dull though ;) --Krsont (talk) 22:02, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Share prices and stock exchange etc.

Hey. Sorry, I'm a complete newbie to economics and don't understand many, if any thoroughly, of it's key concepts. We've all heard in the news that share prices in the banking sector are dropping. This led me to think, and I'm sorry for the amateur question because I'm sure it has a simple answer, who lowers and raises prices of stock? Wouldn't it save a whole load of problems to not lower prices of stock? Sorry again for the dumb question.

—Cyclonenim (talk · contribs · email) 18:13, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

When people report stock prices, they report the price the stock last traded at. A trade happens when a buyer and a seller agree on a price. If buyers aren't willing to buy at the current price, sellers will have to agree to sell at a lower price if they want to sell and the price will go down (and similarly the other way around). There is no central body setting the prices, they are determined by buyers and sellers (there are market makers that play a role in the whole thing by acting as intermediaries between buyers and sellers and they will set prices, but they have to set the prices at levels were people are willing to trade, so they don't have much choice in the matter). --Tango (talk) 18:27, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Ah. Makes sense :) Cheers. —Cyclonenim (talk · contribs · email) 18:49, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

You can make a loose analogy with used cars. Cars don't have an intrinsic value; they're worth what someone will pay for them. The value of a car is affected by its age, the number of miles on the odometer, possibly the reputation of the make (like Honda) or the model (like Civic). The original Ford Mustang was not, mechanically, a very good car -- its price as a used car has a lot to do with the value that Baby Boomers see in it. And people can overreact to outside events -- e.g., they'll sell their nearly-new SUV at a huge loss so they can buy a more energy-efficient hybrid, even though between the loss on the SUV and the premium they have to pay for the hybrid, they won't actually break even before 2050. Markets tend to be efficient over the long term; in the short term, it's all a crapshoot. --- OtherDave (talk) 21:48, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Or to use a reasonably classic stock market quote - in the short-term the stock market is a voting machine, in the long term it is a weighing machine. ny156uk (talk) 14:53, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

Playing music in your car

Are there any restrictions on the volume at which you can play music in your car or the content of such music in the UK? --3uler (talk) 18:37, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Does this Police to seize cars playing loud music answer your question? I hate such people and feel like throwing stones at the cars. Dmcq (talk) 19:44, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Now, that's not very charitable, is it, Dmcq. A better plan is to wait till the driver's out of his car and a good safe distance away; explain to him that what you're about to do is merely a comment on his behaviour and not on him personally; that you love him unconditionally no matter what he does; and then napalm the car. -- JackofOz (talk) 22:23, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Stones? How primitive. Why don't you use something modern, such as noise-seeking cruise missiles? --Carnildo (talk) 23:46, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

An idea would be to train pigeons as pilots to bomb them, with the advantage of course that no actual extra hardware would be required. Dmcq (talk) 11:30, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

Or if they're stupid enough to be playing from the radio, tune your FM transmitter to that same frequency and play something embarrassing/irritating... --antilived^{T | C | G} 03:18, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

At some point it would have to start counting as a "public performance" of the music - and that could get you in trouble in a variety of ways - starting from the need for you to pay for copyright licensing (like, for example, a radio station does) - and ending with laws limiting the volume of music at public concerts. But there are laws relating to preservation of law and order that would probably let them nail you just for being a pain in the neck. But I doubt there is a specific decibel level that would force you to cross those thresholds. SteveBaker (talk) 22:39, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

He could just put a sticker on the car saying "I'm an idiot". Has the same effect as a loud radio.--Artjo (talk) 06:29, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

Casino laws

i am wanting to go on holiday with my family my son who is 19 asked about goin in a casino so my question is what is the legal gambling age in madeira —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.151.65.240 (talk) 20:29, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

According to the information on this site, casino gambling appears legal in mainland Portugal at 18. The only casino in Madeira appears to be Casino da Madeira in Funchal, part of a large new hotel and leisure complex. I can't find anything online to suggest their rules are any different, but much of the casino's own info is restricted or in Portuguese. The rules coverning this casino are here and contain the line "Noutros locais dos casinos que tenham acesso reservado a maiores de 18 anos poderão ser exploradas máquinas de jogo de fortuna ou azar e o Keno." I don't speak Portuguese, but this seems to imply that 18-year-olds and over are permitted to play. Perhaps a Portuguese speaker could confirm? Karenjc 21:05, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

I think that strictly speaking it only says that you have to be 18 to be allowed to go into those areas, not necessarily that an 18-year-old is allowed to play. That an 18-year-old can play would seem like a reasonable, but not certain, inference. --Trovatore (talk) 22:09, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Well, the first ref definitely says that 18 is the "minimum gaming age", not the minimum entry age, so 18-year-olds must be permitted to gamble in Portugal itself. Whether there's any local ordinance in Madeira that overrides this I can't tell. Karenjc 18:40, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

Please see our legal disclaimer GO-PCHS-NJROTC ^(Messages) 20:18, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

Why are the bank failures all occurring at once?

Did anybody see this happening? A month before the failure of Lehman, did anyone predict that by the end of 2008, there would be record numbers of failures of this massive size? Lotsofissues (talk) 22:16, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

It occurs to me that 2 towers fell in September 2001. The 7 years of bad luck is up, so 2 more pillars of the system had to go. -- JackofOz (talk) 23:50, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Rhodes Greece - Muslim Occupation 1522-1912 - yet no Islamicisation??

I have just returned from Rhodes, the largest island in the Dodecanese in the south Ageian, which is a fascinating place. The Old Town is just amazing with its bastions, city walls, gates, and narrow winding streets tightly packed with squares, fountains, shops, restaurants, churches, mosques, a synagogue, palaces, hotels - oh, I could go on and on. But whilst there, I read many tourist guides telling of the many occupations by the Menoans, Phoenecians, Romans, Venetians, Knights of St. John, Turks (1522), Italians and Germans (1912), until finally, in 1948, Rhodes was returned to the republic of Greece. But no-one, not even the locals I met, could explain how it was that between 1522 and 1912, nearly 400 years, the islanders had succeeded in avoiding becoming converted to Islam whilst under the rule of the Ottoman Turks. Is anyone here able to explain that strange phenomenon please? Thanks. 92.20.209.156 (talk) 23:14, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Take a look at Religion in the Ottoman Empire - the Ottoman Empire was comparatively tolerant of Christianity. DuncanHill (talk) 00:04, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

And assuming the inhabitants were considered dhimmis, it was far more valuable to tax them as non-Muslims than force them to convert. Even the Middle East was never totally Islamicized. Adam Bishop (talk) 07:05, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

A massive Population exchange between Greece and Turkey took place in 1923. So most Muslim residents of Rhodes would have been transferred out then, and new Greek-speaking people would have arrived. Itsmejudith (talk) 07:35, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

But according to our article Rhodes, it was Italian at the time, and avoided much of the events of the population transfer. DuncanHill (talk) 07:44, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

It's simple politics. If a ppl truly wants to resist against an invader there nothing as good as a diffrent religion, and the conquered ppl will fiercly cling to their own. If you study history you will notice this trend again and again. Let me give you a couple of examples: Poland, was always strongly catholic because the Russians are Orthodox and Prussia was Protestant. The Irish are fierce catholics because the English are Anglican. The Greek are Orthodox and the Turks Muslim. The Copts who are Christian while the Arabs are Muslim. Please notice that this is a trend and not an infalible rule. Flamarande (talk) 11:49, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

September 27

Multiple banks

Are billionnaires and large corporations more likely than average people and smaller companies to have active accounts at more than one bank in the same country (e.g. to increase the number of ATMs they can use, or the number of people they can send transfers to, without fees)? NeonMerlin 01:05, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

In the UK anyone can use any ATM and there are no fees for interbank transfers, so those reasons certainly wouldn't apply (for individuals - companies are a another matter). Splitting your wealth between multiple banks usually means more of it is protected by the Bank of England, but that's only £35k per bank, so wouldn't really matter to a billionaire. Other countries may be different. Billionaires aren't likely to keep much of their money in a regular bank account, there are special types of accounts for the very rich with "Wealth Management" departments of investment banks and similar. --Tango (talk) 02:05, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

When I went to Canada this summer, I was surprised to discover that the ATM network is split inot two, Visa and Mastercard, and you have to find the right machine. Is this Canadian (Vancouver) split common worldwide or is it an exception? I haven't knowingly encountered it anywhere in Europe. -- SGBailey (talk) 20:44, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

Minor correction: the Canadian ATM network is run by Interac; it is a single unified network across the country; there are (to my knowledge) no ATMs that are not connected to the network. There are subnetworks (such as Cirrus) which not all machines are part of, though the Cirrus and PLUS links into Interac should guarantee use by just about anyone worldwide. Any debit card from any bank anywhere in Canada will work at any ATM (whether bank-branded or private) anywhere in Canada. For credit cards, you have to ensure that your account is set up to receive cash advances from ATMs, and sometimes there are machines you cannot access with your credit card. If your credit card is with a Canadian bank and you are set up for cash advances through ATMs, you can generally speaking use your debit card to obtain the cash. Prince of Canada ^{t | c} 14:32, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

You were doing fine until you said "subnetworks". Cirrus and Plus are worldwide ATM networks belonging respectively to the MasterCard and Visa organizations. Canadian ATMs, or typical ones anyway, are all on Interac (so Canadians can use them regardless of which they use) and also on at least one of Plus and Cirrus (so people from other countries can use them, if their bank is on the right network), sometimes both but not always. --Anonymous, 01:42 UTC, September 29, 2008.

In the U.S., there seem to be many networks of ATMs -- you'll see machines with half a dozen or more logos on them. Usually if you're part of one of the networks, you can use the ATM without any extra charge. On the other hand, you can use virtually any ATM if you don't mind paying $2 to the bank it's in, and another $2 to your own bank, for the convenience. --- OtherDave (talk) 11:11, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

Religious Use of Entheogens in the United States

In 2006 the United States Supreme Court ruled in favor of allowing a relatively new Brazilian religious movement to use a hallucinogenic tea as part of its religious ceremonies. Apparently the court ruled this way because the government hadn't proved any harm had been caused by the use of the hallucinogen. See: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4737994.stm

More recently Johns Hopkins University completed a scientific study that showed that psilocybin, the active ingredient in psilocybe mushrooms, can induce geuine spiritual or religious experiences that have long lasting benefits to participants. See: http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/Press_releases/2006/07_11_06.html

Doesn't this open the door legally for other religions to allow for the spiritual use of entheogens like psilobye mushrooms in the United States? 71.112.229.171 (talk)

I don't understand how you can call a religious experience that's clearly the result of a hallucinogenic drug fritzing with your brain: "genuine". The correct word under these circumstances would be "bogus". Then to call a religious experience (especially such a clearly false one) "beneficial" is another rather wild claim. However, to answer your question - it's likely that case-law would apply so it's possible that other non-harmful hallucinogens could be ruled legal. However, I'm pretty sure that the religion in question would first have to prove that the drug had been in use as a part of their religious rites for a significant amount of time. If no long-standing religions actually use these kinds of drugs, it doesn't necessarily open any doors whatever. SteveBaker (talk) 22:32, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

Steve, while you may not be able to understand how people could consider things in this way, there are people who hold these views. There are people who consider experiences brought on by hallucinogens to be genuinely religious, and that the hallucinogens simple 'open a door', or 'unleash hidden capabilities', or whatever terminology they want to use. The word bogus is not necessarily the 'correct' word, although it may accurately reflect your own view, nor is the religious experience 'clearly false' no matter how obvious that viewpoint may seem to you. Religion is a broad umbrella and personal experience is very personal. (As to 'beneficial', there are those who hold the view that careful use of hallucinogens could be beneficial for some mental health problems, although the difficulty of ensuring a positive experience usually undermines this.) 79.66.84.84 (talk) 13:33, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

See Native American Church and Peyote. That door was already open. Corvus cornix_talk 20:56, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

WHOLE PRIVATE AND PUBLIC DEBTS IN USA.

How are today the whole private debts and public debts in Usa? Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.97.225.77 (talk) 09:08, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

private debt and public debt. --Tango (talk) 15:31, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

Thanks,so private credit debts are 2.587 trillions $ and public debts 9.86 trillions $. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Vindobona (talk • contribs) 16:12, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

Where's the money gone?

Central banks have recently sunk billions of dollars into propping up the finance industry, but problems still exist and the US government is discussing handing over a further $700 billion to hopefully stop a financial meltdown. Where is all this money going to? Astronaut (talk) 09:48, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

The proposed bailout (i.e. the first $700 bn) has afaik not been approved by these guys yet. Here's a relevant article from this morning. To answer your question, see Proposed bailout of U.S. financial system (2008)#Components of the plan. Zain Ebrahim (talk) 10:16, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

At least some of the billions of dollars lent out so far was in short term loans, so some of it has already been paid back. The reason central banks are having to lend out more money is because banks are choosing to leave most of their cash in their deposit accounts with the central bank rather than lending it to each other, so the total amount of cash in circulation is probably pretty much the same as it was before. --Tango (talk) 15:25, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

At the heart of the matter is the problem that house prices were very high - and banks had a lot of money to invest. They decided that they would lend more money to riskier people - with the loans backed by the value of the property used a collateral for the loan. Most of these loans were made on variable interest rate mortgages. When the interest rates on those risky loans started to climb, the borrowers defaulted - that caused a rash of foreclosures and that int turn dumped a lot of homes onto the market. Many people when evicted from their homes by the bank would trash the place before the left (I know, I just recently bought a foreclosed house from a bank - it's only three years old - yet it's a TOTAL wreck. Between the crappy condition of these houses and the large numbers of them on the market - and the rising interest rates making it harder for new buyers to get a loan to by them...property prices tanked. The banks could not get back much of their money from the original loan. Worse still, the banks frequently sold large batches of mortgages off onto secondary market lenders who didn't get good information about the reliability of these loans that they were taking on. Also, there are all of these other complicated financial products such as insurance that a lender would take out in the event of the borrower defaulting that would cover some of the loss. This progressive handing off of "junk" loans to more and more financial institutions spread that original terrible decision to lend money to someone who couldn't afford to repay it to many other companies besides the bank who originally offered the loan - and also diluted the ability of those companies to realise that the loan was "junk" in the first place.

Worse still, a normal insurance company has a legal obligation to have enough liquidity (cash) on hand to cover their losses in the event that they have to pay out on the policy. There are laws that state what percentage of their POTENTIAL losses they have to have in liquid assets. However, the companies who "insured" the mortgage loans (who ought now to be paying the banks for their losses) used a loophole in the law by which they didn't call this transaction "insurance" - they called it something like (IIRC) a "Bond Swap Instrument" - which amounts to the exact same thing as an insurance policy - but because of the loophole meant that they DIDN'T have to keep enough liquid assets around to cover their losses. Hence when the banks go to their "insurers" to claim their money according to the policy - they discover that their insurer just went bust and doesn't have the money to repay them.

You can see how a lack of regulation allowed the banks to lend money in ridiculous ways in the first place - using these "Bond Swap" things to cover their asses. But because the bond swap market wasn't regulated, those "insurance" policies weren't worth the paper they were printed on. So between incompetant bankers, dubious "insurers" and a lack of government oversight - we ended up in all of this trouble.

So now we have banks and other financial organisations who are getting defaulted on left, right and center. They can't sell the homes they now own because nobody is buying and the prices fell through the floor - and they can't claim on their "insurance" policies. Therefore, they have no money to lend out - which is a disaster for business. If you can't borrow money, you can't buy new machinery, you can't buy raw materials - all sorts of nasty things happen. Worse still, if money is too tight to lend to house-buyers, you get into the vicious circle where you aren't lending money to the very people who would be buying up those foreclosed properties - or allowing people to get out from under a difficult mortgage by selling their homes.

The $700,000,000,000 (I think it's important to see all of those zeroes!) that the government is probably going to spend will allow the government to buy all of that bad debt from the banks and other agencies - so that they no longer have "toxic loans" on their books and will be on a stronger financial footing. The government would then be the recipient of mortgage payments - which would go some way to paying down that $700bn - and the ultimate "owner" of a lot of foreclosed properties.

So if you wonder where that money "went" - it was originally payed to people who sold their houses to people who couldn't afford to buy them. It was these property sellers who made the money. Over the period we owned our home, it almost tripled in value over ten years. Had we sold it before the price crash, we'd have made about $350,000...which (if the person who bought the house had failed to repay their mortgage) would have been a part of the $700bn.

When people complain that "American Taxpayers" will be footing the bill for the $700bn, it's worth bearing in mind that the people who benefited from the housing price bubble were mostly "American Taxpayers". It's also worth mentioning that the government has already spent close to $100bn bailing out companies like Fanny May and Freddy Mack...so the true number will be $800bn. Also, there is no guarantee that this will be the end of it (to the contrary - I'd be very surprised if it was)...so expect it to end up costing over a trillion dollars ($1,000,000,000,000 for those who like to see the zeroes!)

One other thing. When we get incomprehensibly large numbers like $700,000,000,000 - I think it's important to divide that number by the size of the population of the USA (300,000,000 people) - and realise that this amounts to over $2,000 for every man, woman and child in the country. That money ultimately must be repaid as taxes - so if you are a "middle-income" wage earner - you can probably look forward to paying perhaps $10,000 in additional taxes over the coming years to cover this debacle. Of course if you sold your home before the crash, you'll certainly have made way more than that due to the housing price bubble...and if you are buying a home right now (as I just did), you'll easily save way more than $10,000 because houses are so amazingly cheap right now. If you can afford to buy a house (and for chrissakes get a fixed rate mortgage and do the math before you sign up for a loan) - now is DEFINITELY the time!

SteveBaker (talk) 18:47, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

Per Steve (we should create a new Wikipedia namespace - SteveBaker: and SteveBaker talk:) :). It's worth noting that (at least in my understanding) bad loans are bought at a discount, i.e. the shareholders of the institution take a hit, but they get their balance sheets cleared up, so that their capital ratios allow them to begin lending again. Put another way, a loan that is in default counts as zero-value, even if there is a chance you will get some of your money back in the long run. Essentially the government is offering to take on the risk and reward of taking the long-term view, as the existing institutions can't afford to do it. Another point is that the money is essentially staying in the US, and is being mostly used for the benefit of US citizens, i.e. everyone needs a place to live. A friend of mine got himself a nice little house back in the early 90's, bought from the Resolution Trust Corporation set up after the savings & loan collapses. Speaking of which, talk about not learning from the lessons of history!

What has mystified me about some of these foreclosures (leading up to this meltdown) though is that the houses are apparently left to rot, sitting empty. This mystifies me, you've repossessed a home, taken your write-down and ended up with a tangible asset (which you don't want, 'cause you're a loan company, not a landlord). But now you're letting that tangible asset become worthless - surely someone would want to rent the house? Even if you rent it at $20/month and a promise of upkeep, isn't that $20 more than letting it rot to nothing? Franamax (talk) 19:41, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

Because they're not landlords, and the hassle of renting is not worth the return?? Also, once tenants are in, they're even harder to sell. What they want is for more cash in the system, so people can buy them; hence the bailout as Steve describes.

But Steve, the bankers weren't incompetent, they were greedy, which is quite different. (The greed is not really that of the fat cats at the top, either, but the shareholders, who demand increasing returns; and don't think the shareholders are merely big businessmen: they're frequently the individual, who wants a good return on their pension plan/health insurance scheme/term deposit/house value/stock portfolio.) The dodgy loans weren't passed on to unsuspecting holders: they knew what they were about. But the loans were parcelled up into groups, so the risk was shared: the idea being that if one in the package defaulted, the value of the others would compensate. Unfortunately, too many defaulted for the others to cover.

Another part of the problem is that in the US (to my understanding) to default on a house loan means you lose the house: effectively you walk away from it, and the loan is written off. In other countries, to default on a mortgage, you still owe the money to the bank. If the bank's sale of the house doesn't cover the outstanding debt, then they can sieze any other assets you hold, or insist you continue to pay. Fail that, and you're bankrupt. People have a disincentive to default: I know people who have taken a second job to meet the debt. In the US, is easier just to walk away. (But do correct me if I've mis-stated the case: my American knowledge is not high.) Gwinva (talk) 19:57, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

That has to be the longest single ref desk answer I've ever seen... (I won't judge how good it was since it was a tl;dr for me!) --Tango (talk) 20:54, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

USA MORTGAGES DEBTS AND GLOBAL DEBTS

How are Usa mortgages debts? How are the global private debts (credit cards+mortgages+lendings+etc.)?

Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Vindobona (talk • contribs) 16:16, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

I'm not sure I understand exactly what question is being asked here. You can read our mortgage article for information on how a mortgage represents a debt. Were you perhaps asking how large US and global debts are? Franamax (talk) 19:48, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

I'd like to know the the global value of mortgages(mortgages are debts) in Usa. I'd like also to know the whole global private debt in Usa...if it is possible... Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Vindobona (talk • contribs) 08:36, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

Vandalism

Removed as this doesn't seem related to Wikipedia and could be an unsafe image. OP, could you explain why you posted the link? Franamax (talk) 19:45, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

Oh, it's okay, vandalism is now reverted (removed was link to screenshot of vandalism). 89.146.68.20 (talk) 19:49, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

OK sorry, I was just being cautious. You can bring that kind of incident up at the ANI noticeboard where it will get swift attention (especially since it looks like the Avril-Lavigne vandal). Another spot is the vandalism noticeboard. Thanks for spotting it!! Franamax (talk) 20:01, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

The OP is the vandal. It's already been reported at AIV and ANI and WP:VPT and a few places at the Help desk and at Talk:Main_Page and heaven knows where. The ref desk was probably the last place left to get attention. Zain Ebrahim (talk) 20:12, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

NO U! Actually when I saw the Avril-Lavigne thing I thought it must be some hard vandalism, so I decided to screenshot it and place here. Then I looked at Talk:Main Page and realized that the problem is solved (though Computer article still not fixed). 89.146.68.20 (talk) 20:20, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

Knowing people and meetings

This week, after having gone to meet two women that I know of different organisations, separately, I came to think: It is possible for the same two people to belong to the same two different organisations, and not know they both belong to both organisations, until they both meet each other in real life at both organisations' meetings. This is only possible if at least one organisation uses aliases, instead of real names, for its members, because a person has only one real name. Has this ever happened? JIP | Talk 20:08, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

Huh? --Sean 20:38, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

You mean, is it possible for two people to not know each other? Even if they have been in close proximity many times? Yeah, I think so. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 20:51, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

Not quite the same thing, but when I visited Bletchley Park the tour guide told the story of a man and woman who both worked there during the war and subsequently met and got married, and each only found out the other had worked there when they visited as tourists decades later and the wife corrected the tour guide during the tour. -- BenRG (talk) 21:33, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

This isn't quite the same thing either. Not the same thing at all, actually, but now that I've remembered it, I can't help sharing it. Billy James Hargis was a far right wing evangelist and anti-pornography campaigner who sermonised about the evils of illicit sex; but all along he had been having sex with members of his congregation - of both sexes. A woman revealed to her husband on their wedding night that she had already lost her virginity to Hargis, and then he admitted that he'd also had sex with Hargis. -- JackofOz (talk) 22:13, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

So, let's see...

• Case 1: Susan and Veronica belong to the National Federation of Associations. They also belong to the National Association of Federations. So what? This is as unremarkable as their living in the same city, or even in the same apartment building, without knowing each other.
• Case 2: Carol Jones (of Alfred, Maine) belongs to the NFA and to the NAF. So does Carol Jones of Petaluma, California. They do not know each other. The organization itself may not "know" it has two members with the same name, because the names are in a database, and the database doesn't really find this sort of thing interesting. Most likely the organizations have some sort of member ID, one purpose of which is to separate all the Carol Joneses (and all the John Smiths). This is not particularly remarkable, either.

I did a little poking around in the 1891 Canadian census a while back -- 10% of all the names in Nova Scotia were "Macdonald (MacDonald, Mcdonald, McDonald)... and 10% of them were named "John." (Thank heavens my great-granduncle married a woman whose first name was "Murdena," not quite so common.) --- OtherDave (talk) 11:20, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

What I was thinking about is that two people both contribute pseudonomously to the same organisation, where they do not normally see each other face-to-face. These two people get to know each other's personae in this organisation very well. When they finally go to a face-to-face meeting of that organisation, they discover they are husband and wife, or schoolmates or work colleagues, or something like that. Has this ever happened? JIP | Talk 19:01, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

How about an adoptee finally finding his birth mother...working at the same store. Clarityfiend (talk) 22:04, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

Job interview question

What is the best way to answer that standard job interview question about "what are your weaknesses"? Obviously you don't want to say that you don't have any, but if you own up to some weakness then that gives them a reason not to give you the job. --Bluegrouper (talk) 21:10, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

Chocolate.

Well, seriously - this is such a dumb question. I don't know what interviewers expect to get out of it - but for sure it's not going to be useful information. A lot of times we ask this kind of thing just to get a rather silent/clammed-up candidate talking. I prefer to ask "What's the best thing you ever worked on?" - and if the answer is less than a solid minute of enthusiasm - come back with "Why?" - because you hope the candidate will be enthusiastic about that - and you can get into some kind of dialog.

In terms of what you should do before the interview - you need to make a list of these kinds of awful question and work out the answers in advance so you can just produce a canned answer that you're happy with. In the case of weaknesses - you don't want to say "None" - and you certainly don't want to list any weakness that would in any way cast your ability to do the job in a bad light. So you have to come up with an answer that's convincing - and preferably enough to raise a chuckle. Hence "Chocolate"...but keep a "deeper" answer in reserve in case they say "No - but seriously?"...so pick something that you don't think they'll care much about - "I have a hard time remembering names" (assuming you aren't working directly with customers) or "I dislike doing a lot of typing" (assuming the job doesn't entail doing a lot of typing).

You also need pre-canned answers to "Why should we employ you?", "What do you think you have to offer us?", "What are your career aspirations?", "Why did you leave your previous job?" - you need carefully pre-rehearsed answers for all of those. SteveBaker (talk) 21:46, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

"I tend to be a perfectionist"; "I can't leave the office till the day's tasks are done"; "I have obsessive compulsive tendencies towards emptying my email inbox"; etc. BrainyBabe (talk) 21:52, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

"I tend to put my work before my family"...yeah - maybe. But they've gotta be credible too. Those all sound a bit too rehearsed! SteveBaker (talk) 21:59, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

No way, they see right through that bullshit. They know you are lying. Plasticup ^T/C 04:52, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

Consider what it would mean if employers really thought that way: they wouldn't give the job to anyone, and they'd be the losers as well as all the applicants. Employers know that everyone has weaknesses, but they are looking for people:

who are aware enough of their weaknesses to not let them affect their job adversely,

who are prepared to take on a challenge and overcome their weaknesses,

who can turn their weaknesses into strengths,

who aren't either so forgetful or prone to lying that they'd say "I'm sure I must have some, but none seem to come to mind right now", and

who don't appear to model themselves after John McEnroe, who once said "My greatest strength is that I have no weaknesses".

So I'd suggest you tell them about some previous experience where you had a perceived weakness but you triumphed over it, and then identify some current weakness (not the absolutely worst one you can think of, but something non-trivial) and how you would manage it to a similar positive outcome. -- JackofOz (talk) 22:03, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

Job interviews tend to be pretty quick and more about their gut-level impression of you rather than specific answers to questions like this. If they actually care about anything it'll be about whether you have a competency they require. This kind of question is to see how you deal with pressure, also a bit of an intelligence/preparation thing, are you smart enough to figure out an answer to a standard question? You can almost certainly get away with a little set piece about a weakness that you overcame in the past—a great one is being a bit of a loner who learned the value of teamwork. Darkspots (talk) 23:18, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

Not all job interviews are quick. I once interviewed at Silicon Graphics - that was a solid 8 hours, they even grilled me over lunch. Just two weeks ago, I had two, 2-hour phone interviews followed by a 6 hour face-to-face with nVidia - and they wanted to fly me out to California for another long session before I decided to punt and take a job elsewhere. Of the half dozen companies I talked to in my last round of job hunting, I think pretty much all of the phone interviews went over an hour - and the face-to-face stuff was typically two to three hours. No - it's an over-simplification to say that interviews are usually pretty quick. It depends dramatically on the nature of the job. SteveBaker (talk) 01:26, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

"I'm not very good at coming up with answers to bad interview questions"? Seriously, though, I'd go with something that you used to be bad at but have work on and improved at. "I'm bad at X but recently I've developed Y to overcome it." (Disclaimer: I'm a student and haven't actually had a successful job interview, so I'm just guessing really!)--Tango (talk) 23:26, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

"I have trouble understanding why other employees are less (readded word eaten by text editor) willing to make personal sacrifices for the success of the company than I am." Edison (talk) 01:15, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

I think you've missed a word out somewhere there ("more willing" perhaps?), it doesn't make sense... --Tango (talk) 01:33, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

It amuses me to think about just answering it honestly: "I only work on stuff that interests me, not stuff that matters to the company"; "I usually just pretend to work for months, and then knock something together in the last 2 weeks"; "I used to love programming, but now I'm just in it for the money"; "You'll mostly be paying me to answer questions on the Wikipedia Reference Desk". --Sean 00:16, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

"I spend increasing amounts of time calculating when I will have sufficient retirement savings to bid farewell to this simulacrum of hades." Edison (talk) 00:23, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

NASA image font

I've looked at several images from NASA during the Apollo project (e.g. Image:Saturnsandlittlejoe2.gif), and most of them have text written in a round font I can't recognize, but that I guess is Futura. Does anybody know for sure what that font is? Titoxd^{(?!? - cool stuff)} 23:13, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

I cropped the image and sent it get analyzed. WhattheFont came back with five possible matches of which I think these two are the closest. YMMV, I guess. I think RTF Dokument Cond SC (the second link) captures the distinctive "C" the closest. Matt Deres (talk) 00:07, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

I think Futura is probably right. Remember that when fonts were typeset there were often lots of subtle variations between different sizes and variants. I disagree completely with those myfonts results—the A's, for example, look nothing like the NASA font, which is clearly some sort of Futura/Century Gothic type of font with a distinct angle joining the two legs. --98.217.8.46 (talk) 05:31, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

Based on putting stuff into identifont, it's definitely some kind of Futura. --Random832 (contribs) 13:19, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

September 28

What's going to happen to Bahrain?

Economy of Bahrain Our article says oil could run out in 2018. Since the economy is still predominately oil. Will the economy just drop dead one day in the next decade? Lotsofissues (talk) 01:38, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

That article discusses that very issue: Economy of Bahrain#Diversification. --Tango (talk) 01:49, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

That is the advantage of a Monarchy. You don't have to convince lots of silly people to do what is best for them - you just do it! Long-term plans never really work in a democracy. Plasticup ^T/C 05:03, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

But if the person in charge is also "silly"... --86.158.29.112 (talk) 15:51, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

Also, since the atmosphere doesn't like oil, sea level rise could also be a problem within the next few hundred years (this is Bahrain at 10 metres sea level rise). ~AH1^(TCU) 17:11, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

Plasticup's idea of how a modern monarchy works may have been derived from reading The Wizard of Id. Bahrain is now a constitutional monarchy, with an elected legislature accountable to the people. It's also a democracy, although every democracy is unique in the way it does its business. The Prime Minister is a member of the Bahraini Royal Family rather than an elected representative, which I'm sure makes for interesting times. -- JackofOz (talk) 21:25, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

medieval art

Im searching for a picture , mosaic or i think painting of AVARICE HANGING SELF DESRUCTION with the words AVARICE KILLS SELF DESTRUCTION MAY YOUR HOME BE YOUR GALLOWS .I would very much appreciate any help .thank you —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.100.0.85 (talk) 02:51, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

You seem to be confusing a lecture delivered by Hannibal Lecter in the novel Hannibal—which contains the phrase "avarice, hanging, self-destruction" and the translation of a line from the Divine Comedy, "I made my own house be my gallows" (see the antepenultimate paragraph in the top post here)—with a work of visual art. I seriously doubt that there exists a medieval picture, mosaic, or painting such as you describe. Deor (talk) 14:21, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

Inguinal ligament stretch

Does anyone out there know any good Inguinal ligament stretches? I tried googling it, but I didn't come up with much of anything besides how to identify inguinal hernias. Any and all help will be much appreciated. --AtTheAbyss (talk) 03:26, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

Effects of Cigars

Since most, if not all, cigar smokers do not inhale the smoke into their lungs, does smoking cigars really have a psychoactive effect on the body? If the smokers do not inhale, how does their bodies absorb the psychoactive compounds in the tobacco? Acceptable (talk) 05:56, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

Nicotine is quite readily absorbed through the mucous membranes of the mouth. The same is true for chewing tobacco. Though as with all addictions there will be a mental element. Fribbler (talk) 13:00, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

If you are not addicted to nicotine and you either smoke a cigar (properly, without inhaling into the lungs) or chew tobacco, the kick from the drug can be quite intense. Darkspots (talk) 13:21, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

You only have to look at the efficacy of Nicotine patches to see that these substances can be absorbed even through the skin. SteveBaker (talk) 01:16, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Political Surrogates

What exactly is the role/background of the term "surrogate" that I've heard used fairly often this election. Have I just missed it in previous elections or is it a new term? Is it worthy of a wikipedia article? 68.50.130.233 (talk) 06:39, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

Should we assume that you mean the Presidential election in the U.S.? Dismas|^(talk) 09:29, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

Political surrogates are people you have speaking on your behalf: Person A is seeking election and wants to "big himself up" but doesn't want to look arrogant, so Person B says what a great person Person A is. Alternatively Person B attacks Person C (the opponent), allowing Person A not to appear "negative", yet the attack stands. It seems to be a recently coined term, but I don't know how recent. Does it deserve an article? Maybe, unless we have something similar already. Fribbler (talk) 12:56, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

horse question

Which horse is the best horse? And why? Roggie123 (talk) 10:24, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

It's like asking which colour is best. Define more accurately what you mean by 'best' and are you including all members of the equine race? In which case the zebra is the best if you are looking for stripiness. 86.4.187.55 (talk) 10:49, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

But Champion the Wonder Horse was the best horse in black-and-white.--Mrs Wibble-Wobble (talk) 13:42, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

I suppose it depends on the use to which you want to put the horse. Smoked, steak or sausages? BrainyBabe (talk) 15:55, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

I can think of more uses for a horse than that, but I wouldn't mention most of them here. -- JackofOz (talk) 21:14, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

If you want a talking horse, then Mr Ed would be a candidate for best, although Narnia offers a few, too. Gwinva (talk) 00:44, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

If the question is about horse-racing, the answer is tough. Horses are not routinely transported from country to country - so in general, there is no clear way to compare (say) Northern Dancer (who raced in the US and Canada) with (say) Arkle who was famous in Ireland. Also, the jockey has a lot to do with the result - and there is absolutely no way to race two horses with the same jockey riding both to find out. SteveBaker (talk) 01:14, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Horse_breeding#How_breeds_develop has some information on the advantages of different breeds and the ways in which they are suited to different purposes. AlmostReadytoFly (talk) 11:55, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Factors in influencing our behaviour.

Which two main factors are said to be intrumental in influencing our behaviour? any help on this question would be much appriciated. thankyou lynsey —Preceding unsigned comment added by Babylynz (talk • contribs) 11:32, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

Nature and nurture? If this is homework, I suggest you poke your nose into the article (and a few more). --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 12:07, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

Hunger and Sex. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.20.200.156 (talk) 15:17, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

Carrot and stick. BrainyBabe (talk) 15:56, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

Greed and sex.86.197.16.51 (talk) 16:06, 28 September 2008 (UTC)DT

Pinky and the Brain. -FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 21:08, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

War and Peace, Crime and Punishment, Love and Death, Crimes and Misdemeanors, Death and Taxes, Sex and the City...OK, not the last one. Seriously, this is a dumb question - the answer has to be something to do with hormones. SteveBaker (talk) 01:09, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

World record marathon

You have a small feature that claims that the Ethiopean runner Gabreselassie has set a new world marathon record. I beleieve that this is not correct as no marathon course is exactly the same as any other. This is unlike say a 1500 metres or a 100 metres track. For such events times can be truly compared and thus a particular time can be a world record but for the marathon all that can be claimed is that it is the fastest. Without identical tracks true comparisons between events cannot be made and thus no world record can be claimed. I would not wish these comments of mine to be construed in any way as critical of this superb athlete. He is without doubt a phenominal athlete but his races cannot be meaningfully compared with say, Zatopec in Helsinki because the races, although over the same distance was not over an identical course. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.233.0.41 (talk) 15:26, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

See Marathon#World records and world's best; it looks like the IAAF now recognizes world records for marathons. Deor (talk) 15:55, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

You could apply the same argument to most sports. We had a recent discussion about how the design of swimming pools has contributed to the speed of the swimmers, so although they're competing over the same distance as they did 50 years ago, the "courses" are not "identical". Also, running shoes are better these days. And so on. If every minuscule variation in external conditions were taken into account, there'd never be any exact basis of comparison with previous record holders. -- JackofOz (talk) 21:11, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

Indeed - wind speed, humidity, temperature, rain, shoe technology...all of these things are variables in almost all outdoor sporting events. The differences on a Marathon course are indeed much bigger than the differences between (say) 100 meter tracks - but almost every athlete has the chance to perform in events all around the world - so picking the "right" track to make your world record attempt on is just a part of the process. Gabreselassie shouldn't be penalised just because Zatopec did his run on a sub-optimal track. SteveBaker (talk) 01:00, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Refueling Stations

I noticed in Los Angeles many of their buses are powered by CNG. But I don't see many CNG/alternative refueling stations around, why is that? Is it because there are many laws and restrictions or is the demand just not there yet? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.132.66.30 (talk) 16:02, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

City busses (even diesel busses) don't refuel at regular gas stations - they have pumps at their base facility. Natural gas is stored in large liquified gas cylinders - which are usually above-ground but can be buried out of sight if space is limited. My father used to run a LPG (propane) refuelling station in the UK, he also converted standard gasoline vehicles to run on LPG. The tank at his station was above-ground, about 30' long and about 10' in diameter with a filling unit that looked a lot like a regular gas pump - except for the actual business end of the filler which had a complicated clamping gizmo on the end. This was about 20 years ago - and at that time there were no special laws relating to LPG refuelling in the UK - he had many individual customers as well as fleets of taxi's, ambulances, busses and other delivery vehicles. Most conversion kits leave the gasoline/diesel pathway intact and allow the vehicle to run on regular fuel at the flip of a switch - which has huge advantages when the infrastructure is not yet there. However, custom-built vehicles can get better mileage and performance than conversions - so the LA bus fleet are probably CNG-only. SteveBaker (talk) 00:54, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Contact Lenses

Besides scratching or ripping, (or breaking if they get dried up), can contacts ever diminish their ability to help your vision?

This is assuming that you wear them within the time you're supposed to (and switch pairs when it is time)

What I'm trying to say is that if someone doesn't put complete effort into their upkeep (like maybe they just simply take them out of the case, put them in, wash the case out a little, and then at night take them back out, put them in the case, fill it with solution and then shut it), will the quality of the contacts go down? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.20.213.138 (talk) 16:44, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

On behalf of Wikipedia, I would like to refer you to your local eye doctor. Please see our medical disclaimer. GO-PCHS-NJROTC ^(Messages) 20:01, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

This isn't a request for medical advice, it's a request for information on how the contacts work. Don't be so zealous. --98.217.8.46 (talk) 22:47, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

I would never, ever wear contact lenses. The thought of the risk of a foreign object getting caught between my eye and my eyelid is too disgusting. I am happy with a visible external apparatus to correct my ever-worsening vision. JIP | Talk 20:29, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

I take it that it is the sort of thing that one gets used to rather quickly. In any case I don't think this particular opinion of yours is anywhere close to an answer to the OP. --98.217.8.46 (talk) 22:47, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

My understanding is that the cleaning of lenses is not so much because they'll lessen in their prescription or anything but because dirt on them can get into your eye very easily and cause infection, etc. --98.217.8.46 (talk) 22:47, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

You're right 98..... a "protein residue" is deposited on the lenses quite quickly and this is a nasty source of infection. Any degradation in the ability of the lenses to correct a refractive error would take (in contact lens terms) a lifetime compared to the increased risk of conjunctivitis that is the main concern. Fribbler (talk) 23:20, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

Also, keep in mind that they can fog up. Often going outside when it is very humid will cause my contacts to fog up. A few blinks can quickly fix this. The Reader who Writes (talk) 01:02, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

I wear monthly contact lenses. When I was short of cash and couldn't afford a new set I wore the same set for 5 months, in the end I got a slight infection in one eye. So I finally got some new ones. The infection wasn't that serious and cleared up with some eye drops, but it could have been much worse. I usually change my monthly lenses about every 6-8 weeks now, not an ideal situation but certainly cheaper than every month. 124.177.182.195 (talk) 08:37, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Who will win the next US election?

Hi. Who do you think will win? Thanks. ~AH1^(TCU) 17:15, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

I say, unless something out of the ordinary happens, it's a 50-50 chance. You won't get any official answers (as there aren't any), rather only opinions, so I'm not sure this is the right place. CL — 17:26, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

Diebold Accidentally Leaks Results Of 08 Election. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.171.56.13 (talk) 17:42, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

That YouTube video appears to be a load of crap; that blue screen looks like it was probably planted there by some hacker. GO-PCHS-NJROTC ^(Messages) 21:16, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

You might want to look up what The Onion is before being ridiculous about it. Hint: it's satire (as paying attention to any of the clip ought to reveal—newscasters talking about shadowy overlords? Come on now, wake up!). --98.217.8.46 (talk) 21:49, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

Lol. One of my favourite Onion clips. And for those interested, it does relate to a real controversy. Fribbler (talk) 23:08, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

If it were held today, the latest polls say Obama would win. But it won't be held today so who knows. It will likely be close in any event, no matter what happens in the next few weeks. --98.217.8.46 (talk) 18:13, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

More hanging chads to come perhaps?--Artjo (talk) 19:28, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

Hopefully Mccain will win. GO-PCHS-NJROTC ^(Messages) 19:59, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

That's not necessarily true. If he wins, he will win hopefully; but he may not win. That's also the case with Obama. -- JackofOz (talk) 21:03, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

?????? GO-PCHS-NJROTC ^(Messages) 21:09, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

Re: ??????: Mild critique on linguistic misuse of a term. "Hopefully" is an adverb. --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 21:15, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

Surely you're joking, and I don't mean you're joking in a sure manner. "Hopefully" is a sentence adverb. Please read Language Log, Steven Pinker, M. Stanley Whitley, etc. -- BenRG (talk) 23:25, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

I know very well what you mean; and I'm sure Cookatoo's would agree that you shoudl stop calling people Shirley :-)As for the OP, is this some weird way to try to conduct a supposedly unbiased poll? If so, to throw a real bit of confusion into your poll, I think Harold Stassen will win.209.244.187.155 (talk) 01:05, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

I hope Mccain wins, and I think he will win, and he will win hopefully. :) GO-PCHS-NJROTC ^(Messages) 21:18, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

The good news is, both candidates are supportive of actually attempting to cut greenhouse gas emmisions, which makes the world in general less doomed then otherwise with Bush. ~AH1^(TCU) 22:49, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

Tut tut. You should know better than starting a discussion thread on the reference desk, AH. <Fribbler isn't angry, just dissapointed> Anyhoo, as for links and refs, the Bradley effect suggests extra luck for John "Bomb Iran or Spain" McCain. Fribbler (talk) 23:06, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

My comment was less a comment on language than on GO-PCHS-NJROTC's injection of his/her personal political stance. The question ("who do you think will win") is probably not even appropriate for the ref desk, but what people hope is another question entirely, and this is definitely not the place for the expression of political hopes. -- JackofOz (talk) 23:57, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

Ray Fair's model favors Obama. You can see the specifics of his model here, although that page isn't up to date. Is this the first piece of empirical evidence in the whole discussion? Plasticup ^T/C 00:42, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

RealClearPolitics' electoral map has Obama/Biden in the lead. Intrade has Obama/Biden favored. FTPredict has Obama/Biden favored.--droptone (talk) 12:33, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Latitude and longitude

What is located at 25.15 degrees latitude and 80.25 degrees longitude? GO-PCHS-NJROTC ^(Messages) 19:55, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

You can find links to maps at 25.15°N 80.25°E / 25.15; 80.25 25.15°N 80.25°W / 25.15; -80.25 25.15°S 80.25°E / -25.15; 80.25 25.15°S 80.25°W / -25.15; -80.25. --Random832 (contribs) 20:18, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

Well, (25.15,80.25) is located in a field somewhere in northern India near "Sarwai". (25.15,-80.25) is just off the coast of Key Largo...the other two are in the middle of the ocean. So I guess the field in India is what we're looking for...it doesn't seem particularly notable though. SteveBaker (talk) 00:42, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

I don't know how exact it has to be, or if you could have made a typo but (25.85,-80.25) would indicate Miami. Could that be what you are looking for? --Lgriot (talk) 02:23, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

September 29

unknown flowering vine

I have a vine that I bought a while ago, well actually they were beans. They were about an inch long and pink. I planted the "beans' this year and it grew into a vine with leaves about the size of a dogwood tree leaf, then they started blooming. The flowers have no smell and they look like wild sweet pea flowers but they are bigger.It is not a wild sweet pea. But no one knows anything about it and no one has found it in any kind of book or on the net. Can anyone tell me anything I`d greatly appreciate it. I`m dumbfuzzeled about it. They are really pretty. The color of the flower islight purple. or lilac colored Thank you Brenda —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.215.29.82 (talk) 01:58, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

It would help a lot if you could put up a picture of the flowers and the leaves. --Lgriot (talk) 02:13, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

How do I survive in prison?

Let's just say that I've done things that I'm.....ashamed of. Im not sure if they're gonna segregate me or not. Regardless, the guards wont be too happy with me. Im lookin at 5-20. Help.I'm Scared (talk) 02:14, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Go to WikiHow, input "prison". Most of what I've seen is that you keep to yourself, you do NOT get into ANY debts at all, you show NO emotions at all, do NOT do anything that will show as being "weak", such as crying, and you do NOT become what is called a "Prison Bitch". What that means is that you mind your own business, you don't indebt yourself to anyone, and I mean anyone at all. Hide all emotional weaknesses, since your emotions will betray you. A "Prison Bitch" is someone who is raped while he/she is in prison by another inmate, a guard. You see/witness something going on, you do not tell the guards, anyone at all about it. Walk off and if questioned, say that you have not seen anything at all, and you'll be telling the truth. Keep your mouth SHUT. If I seem harsh, I do apologise. I have, while dealing with paranormal matters, had to deal with law enforcement. (Example:"Police Officer sees UFO", and the cops discuss criminal cases as well, while I deal with the cop who allegedly saw a UFO.)You'll also have to watch out for gangs of all kinds and inmates who will mess you up by making things up that could get you sent to "the Hole". More can be found online. One other thing, another inmate who offers to "show you the ropes" may trick you into becomming his/her "bitch", and may even sell you out to be raped over and over for a pack of smokes, drugs, other favors. One good tip: Get a Bible and get really religious, pending what your situation is while in prison. WikiHow says that other inmates respect those who are religious, and religion will help turn your life around. Also follow all rules in prison, i.e. become a well behaved prisoner, so that you will get out sooner on parole, and don't (polite)foul up your parole either. If your crime is a felony, you will NOT be allowed any:

• Weapons of any type
• Alcoholic beverages

and you will not be allowed to vote either.

IF you are a child molester, a sex offender, you will have to be segregated from "the general population" and when you get out, you'll have to register AS a sex offender in each and every state, town, etc. Be advised that certain occupations/ jobs will also be barred to you as well, such as banking.

Have you been convicted yet? Powerzilla (talk) 03:46, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

One other thing, do NOT do ANY drugs while in prison either. Not only will the drugs be the problem, they can also cause other problems. and you don't need them, those other problems as well. Messing with dope there will also get you raped, even killed in prison. Powerzilla (talk) 03:50, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Derren Brown Question

I've recently become fascinated by Derren Brown and have watched a lot of videos about him on YouTube. I usually can tell, to some extent, how he does his-for the lack of a better word-tricks, but there's one video in particular that leaves me puzzled; this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_oUDev1rME Does anybody know how that one is done? Tuesday42 (talk) 02:15, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

When someone says something in their head their mouth will move slightly as if mouthing the words, with a lot of practise you can recognise enough letters to work it out. (At least, that's how I believe it's done, I certainly can't do it myself!) --Tango (talk) 14:34, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Real ID Act: Status?

What is it and has it been made into law yet? Been hearing rumors about it, none any good. Powerzilla (talk) 03:15, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Did you see REAL ID Act? Plasticup ^T/C 03:58, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Why is yellow the most intense color?

The color yellow is the easiest to see, enhances concentration, and even makes people angry(?!), according to [this]. What is inherent in this slice of the electromagnetic spectrum that has such striking effects on our nervous systems?Sunburned Baby (talk) 03:21, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

My speculation is because that's the most intense color coming from the sun. The sun's peak radiation in the visible range is between 500-600 nm wavelength. See this picture: [19]. This falls in the green-yellow color range (see the diagram and accompanying chart in Visible spectrum article), which is probably why that chartrusy green-yellow color seems so bright in the sunlight, it is reflecting most efficiently the sun's brightest radiation. Likewise, and probably related, is that our eye's particular biochemistry is "tuned" to this color range (it is most sensitive to it) since THAT is the color that is strongest in sunlight. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 03:31, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

The easiest to see part I guessed the sun also. Even the concentration part (daytime you're awake). But, anger? Who ever said "Ah crap, here comes the goddamn sun again!"?... Well, maybe someone with a hangover.--Sunburned Baby (talk) 03:37, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Just because? Some people like that answer. I always thought that red was the most striking color, the evolutionary reason being that it is the color of blood. Plasticup ^T/C 04:00, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Yould think it should be green wouldnt you? [20]--GreenSpigot (talk) 14:37, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

That is just the physical sensitivity though. There is a psychological response too. Plasticup ^T/C 15:33, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

I'm interested :-)

Back in 2007 I asked saw someone asking about the legality and requirements and possibility of registering a business name etc.

I didn't really take much of it in [and I don't think he did either] because it [sounded like it] was a bit of a half-hearted idea. Now, I'm back also interested in to it. So can somebody please clarify for me: I can register the business and get an ABN under age, but to actually run the company, I'm gonna need someone over age? This is hypothetical of course, and I am not asking for specific legal advice, just information on what the regulations are. Deon555 (talk) 04:48, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

We can't give legal advice. --Random832 (contribs) 04:56, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Wow you're helpful! I didn't ask for legal advice. I've rephrased the question to suit people like you. Deon555 (talk) 05:41, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Maybe you should ask people like those who answer the phone at 1300 55 81 81. That's going by the thread you've listed above, and links therein. Franamax (talk) 06:48, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

And in case that seems like another unhelpful answer, it's actually intended to be helpful. When you find a government page listing a direct contact phone number - call it and ask your questions. It may seem easier to post to Internet forums, but sooner or later you will have to find out for sure. You might also want to talk to a bank, 'cause you'll need an account. Again, use the phone book and ask someone who can give you a specific answer. Franamax (talk) 06:54, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

You may want to bear in mind that in many cases, simply registering a business name is not going to be enough to allow you to access something restricted to businesses. And it'll be even worse with your age. For example, if you're thinking of dealing with a supplier, bear in mind many suppliers have minimum purchase requirements. And in many countries including I suspect Australia, companies are probably entitled to reject you out of hand if they don't feel you are a serious business or worth their time even if they don't explicitly specify what conditions you have to meet (provided they aren't discriminating against you illegally of course). In any case, anything which requires a business is likely to also need you (or the director) to sign a contract, which you can't do since your underage. Also bear in mind that different laws will govern anything done under the business (whatever the Australian equivalent of the consumer guarantees act may not cover any goods or services that are delivered or sold to a business) and there will likely be a whole bunch of legal requirements (like tax) to deal with. All in all, I think you'll find opening up a business isn't as simply as it may sound and is probably not worth it unless you want to do something rather significant with the business Nil Einne (talk) 11:53, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Stamps with odd denominations

Whilst sorting through my stamp collection,I noticed some US stamps with rather odd denominations- 6.3c or 7.2c. How practically can you have a stamp for .3 of a cent when the cent is the smallest coin available and what would be the point of having stamps for such an unusual amount? Lemon martini (talk) 10:02, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

I don't know the answer but I've always found it rather odd that the US has stamps worth 41 cents. Most countries don't bother with such small difference. You might have a 40 cent stamp or perhaps a 45 or 5 cent stamp but 1 cent, not so much, at least in everyday use. Some US states did have coins for under 1 cent according to [[Mill (currency)] but the obvious other possibility is that when you buy them in bulk e.g. lots of 10 you pay 63 cents or 72 cents. Or that you only pay 6 cents or 7 cents for one depending on the rounding policies of the post shop Nil Einne (talk) 11:41, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

You are probably thinking of the Transportation coils and the unusual prices are because of special postage rates/discounts for bulk mailers. Also lots of countries have a large collection of definitive stamps of strange values see for instance list of Machin stamps for the British set, although few have the strange fractional values of this US set. meltBanana 12:12, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

The reason the US has 41 cent stamps (no longer - now there are 42 cent stamps of course) is because mailing a letter under one ounce first class cost exactly 41 cents between May 2007 and May 2008. Does your country not have stamps for the exact price of common rates? --Random832 (contribs) 13:30, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Avoiding sales taxes in Europe

Considering that Europe is the home of so many low-cost airlines, where can you fly to buy a tax free laptop? Gibraltar? Melilla? Dubai? Tanger?Mr.K. (talk) 11:44, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Do you not have to declare your purchase and pay the relevant tax on your return?--Artjo (talk) 11:47, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Yes you almost definitely will. There may be some duty free allowance, but it's unlikely to be enough to cover a laptop and you will likely have to be away for a certain period before you're even given an allowance Nil Einne (talk) 11:58, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

The duty-free allowance is 180 euro (145 GBP) for "miscellaneous gifts". That's not going to be a very good laptop. Anyway, the cheapest non-EU destinations to fly to are probably Croatia and Turkey. Fribbler (talk) 12:02, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, but Gibraltar and Melilla are tax-free aren't them? And no, I don't have to declare a used laptop. I am not planning to bring it over in the box.Mr.K. (talk) 12:18, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

You may have a conundrum. Keep the documentation and you have a warranty but also the possibility of being caught (which could cost a lot more than the tax). Dispose of the documentation and you will probably be safe but have no warranty! -- Q Chris (talk) 12:22, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Yup, no VAT there. But that doesn't mean things are cheaper. The savings are generally absorbed by the shops. You don't pay VAT on privately traded second hand items anyway, so why add a costly trip into it? Fribbler (talk) 12:28, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

I won't buy a used laptop. If I buy a new one and use it before I come back, I am coming back with a used one, right? The documentation can be send by mail. You all just want to spoil my fun. It would cost me only 50 pound to Gibraltar and back. Mr.K. (talk) 12:34, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Seems like a lot of hassle that will more than likely save you nothing or cost you. To quote from this travel tips thread : So, if you go to Gibraltar expecting to get a bargain and if what your buying isn't Tobacco or Spirits, you will probably discover that you are not getting a bargain at all. Fribbler (talk) 12:37, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Indeed, if you're going to somewhere like the US or Hong Kong, you'll probably find the item is cheaper to buy there. If you're going to Gibraltar, not so much... Note also that while laptops are one of the few items with decent international warranties, the warranty terms might still vary and you're also likely not entitled to any protection under UK (or whever you live) law if they screw you around beyond perhaps normal contract law (although even that is in doubt if you smuggled the laptop in). Nil Einne (talk) 12:42, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

I wouldn't be so sure. Customs officials are not necessarily as dumb as you seem to think. If you have a brand spanking new laptop, without any scratches or signs of use, that was manufactured a 1 month ago, they may start to wonder where it came from and may ask you questions about where your purchased it from. Sure you could lie to them but then not only have you filed a false declaration, you've lied to a customs official. Not a good idea IMHO considering the risks involved. Note that an item usually has to have been in your possession for quite a long period before it is considered used and tax-exempt. Nil Einne (talk) 12:40, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

From a quick look through[21] it appears that for the UK you need to have held/used the items for 6 months and you have had to be living outside the EC for 12 months before there is any chance for an exemption on tax Nil Einne (talk) 12:54, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

I recall purchasing a rather nice Graf Von Faber Castell (spelling) pen as a gift and found it cheaper online at an international site. I think it was about £20 cheaper than in the uk. It arrive all well and fine but then about 3 months later so did an 'importation tax' bill from the government for about the same as my saving. Oh well. I would suggest that your best bet is to source this either A) second hand in the UK or B) sign-up for one of those mobile-phone contracts that offer one free. Get the phone and sell it on e-bay and between the money you get from that phone and the cost of the contract over the contract-term you will probably end up with a lap-top for cheaper than a brand-new laptop (though the effort involved is obviously quite a bit). 194.221.133.226 (talk) 12:45, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

What is a ralser (listed as occupation)?

Occupation: Ralser

This was an occupation listed on a marriage license in 1912 in Wisconsin.

Can anyone help. Haven't found it in dictionaries or genealogy sites that address occupations.

98.141.96.111 (talk) 11:59, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Could it be a typo of "raiser", a farmer of crops: [22]? Fribbler (talk) 12:07, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

explanation

I know frustrations are on the rise with my edits but please note that my intent upon login is always to keep the flow of information fluid. It is NEVER my intent do harm, I am trying to follow procedure. Most recently, i clicked to ensure accuracy on some issue and a response came back telling me that the data or article was not part of wikipedia and asked for deletion. Right then I realized that everything is part of wikipedia, it's just not owned by it. I just wish that that BIG RED lock wasn't just staring at me. I do not work for Wikipedia and i am starting to realize that only those who work for W..... should update files Please advise from this point on as to when I am asked to help, should I? --Ptw007 (talk) 12:59, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Can you clarify your comment? The only article edits I see by you are signing your name and similar test edits, which are inappropriate. However, the number of active editors who are employees of Wikipedia is vanishingly small. Virtually all edits are made by volunteers. — Lomn 13:12, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

mouth

what is the name of the piece of skin/flesh that runs from your lip through to the middle of your two front teeth. There is another on the bottom in the same place, in front of your teeth, behind your lip. Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.115.175.247 (talk) 13:03, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Frenulum. Fribbler (talk) 13:19, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

fire drill

Why are we quiet during a fire drill???????

Nick (talk) 15:50, 29 September 2008 (UTC)nicholassayshi