Talk:Main Page

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Errors in the summary of the featured article

Please do not remove this invisible timestamp. See WT:ERRORS and WP:SUBSCRIBE. - Dank (push to talk) 01:24, 29 September 2022 (UTC)

Today's FA

• Edith Roosevelt — ... married Theodore Roosevelt in 1886, having five children.

This formulation reads as if she had five kids when they married. Suggest change to "in 1886, and bore five children." – Sca (talk) 14:23, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Even better would be splitting it to a separate sentence, to avoid any connection between the year and the children, viz: 'in 1886. The couple had five children together.' Modest Genius ^talk 14:39, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

I wouldn't call that better ("together" is either unclear or obvious, depending on how you read it). "She grew up alongside the Roosevelt family, and married Theodore Roosevelt in 1886; they had five children" is an alternative. - SchroCat (talk) 15:31, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

That version sounds good to me. Modest Genius ^talk 15:48, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Gog the Mild, have you seen this discussion? What do you think? Schwede66 17:41, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

I have been following the discussion. I don't believe there is a problem with the current wording, but if it is felt it should be changed then SchroCat's version seems the best of the alternatives suggested. Gog the Mild (talk) 17:46, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

 Done I've implemented SchroCat's suggestion. Schwede66 17:54, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Errors in the summary of the featured list

Friday's FL

(November 22)

Monday's FL

(November 25)

Errors in the summary of the featured picture

Notice to administrators: When fixing POTD errors, please update the corresponding regular version (i.e. without "protected" in the page title) in addition to the Main Page version linked below.

Tomorrow's POTD

• At "and short story writer" pls add compound hyphen ie 'short-story' JennyOz (talk) 07:39, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

   Fixed Schwede66 08:44, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

General discussion

Michael Jackson main page

Please can someone put Michael Jackson on main page. It's the least wikipedia can do for the world's best dancer, singer and entertainer ever. --Forsena (talk) 18:07, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

He was. You missed him. --candle•wicke 18:09, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

For close to 4 ½ days, to be specific. —David Levy 18:12, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Yes, after spending 4 and a half days on the main page we thought that people might of got the message....guess not!Willski72 (talk) 18:14, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Michael Jackson was on the main page for the four days after he died .You can see the way this was reported in the "in the news" section here
Portal:Current events/2009 June 25
Stadt (talk) 18:35, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

This is the moment he made his appearance... --candle•wicke 18:40, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

And he was knocked off by an exploding train... --candle•wicke 18:43, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Sounds painful... weburiedoursecretsinthegarden 18:44, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

@ Forsena - note that Wikipedia is not a collection of obituaries, and that Jacko wasn't the only death on June 25 either. weburiedoursecretsinthegarden 18:44, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

This has absolutely nothing to do with this - actually it might - but is Wikipedia crashing again today? It hasn't been right since he died. I've spent half an hour trying to reply to something elsewhere. And this is the third time I've tried to get this message through. --candle•wicke 20:20, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Finally!!! It saves! (collapses in tears) --candle•wicke 20:22, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

The European servers were down for a little while, everything had to go through Florida. The secure site was still working fine. J Milburn (talk) 23:54, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Geez people if you dont understand what i'm talking about don't answer. I was talking about his Featured page should be on the main page. And I really think nobody gives a crap about a Prime Minister from a country they never heard of resigned. Put his featured article on main page please, this is least we can do for him. R.I.P Michael we love you --Forsena (talk) 10:17, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

If that's what you meant, why didn't you say it? I'm assuming the article will be saved for an anniversary- perhaps his birthday, perhaps the anniversary of his death. I imagine the editors of the article will want to work on it somewhat for a while yet anyway- it's changed fairly significantly since his death. J Milburn (talk) 10:29, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

(edit conflict) You could propose it at Wikipedia:Featured article candidates. I'd like to take this opportunity to apologise for the ignorance of my fellow editors - when you said "can someone put Michael Jackson on main page" they mistakenly thought you were referring to Main page, and responded (correctly) that Michael Jackson had been on the Main page for some time. In hindsight, we all realise that that assumption was incorrect and we should magically have known you were, in fact, talking about a specific but unstated part of the Main page. The telepathic skills of many Wikipedia editors is sorely lacking. This is being addressed by a top-secret research programme, but in the meantime I ask that you state requests clearly, and not leave us guessing what you really mean. Cheers, TFOWR^{This flag once was red} 10:33, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Note Requests for assigning an FA to the front page for a certain day go to Wikipedia:Today's featured article/requests, not WP:FAC. Regards, Dabomb87 (talk) 18:54, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

(ec) I suspect that given that you regularly seem to contribute to Serbia related articles there is a bit of aggressive POV creeping in here (I presume the resignation you were talking about was the PM of Serbia's next door neighbour, Croatia). Your talk page also suggests that you have been involved in edit warring on Eastern European/Balkan/Yugoslav related articles, which furthers my suspicions. As for Michael Jackson, if you want tributes go to a fansite. This is an encyclopaedia and we don't bend the rules just because one person has died. Also, I would point out that per Relativism theory, whilst you feel Jackson's death is notable, others will not, and likewise, whilst you feel the resignation of the Croatian PM is not notable, other will. All we can do is treat them as equally as possible. --Daviessimo (talk) 10:35, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

To most people Michael Jackson was just a good singer, most people did not "love" him. That Prime Minister you mentioned had far more power than Michael Jackson (although perphaps not skill) and is far more important in his country.Willski72 (talk) 10:38, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure that if Micheal Jackson was so minded and had called for a socialist revolution in Croatia, the Prime Minister would have been pretty powerless to stop it. MickMacNee (talk) 10:44, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Celebrities have far more power than politicians, especially when comparing the likes of Michael Jackson to the PM of Croatia. Look what a former model achieved against one of the leaders of the free world... J Milburn (talk) 10:48, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Yup. Made Gordon Brown look like a right idiot. Although that's not hard these days. MickMacNee (talk) 10:50, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

I don't think it was Joanna Lumley alone who changed Brown's mind. I'd say the commons defeat he suffered weeks before on the Gurka issue was more important. I'd also state that whilst Jackson may have more power of persuasion, political leaders have more absolute power, but that is an irrelevant point. Jackson has been listed on ITN so unless there is a major development he's not going back on there. All other sections require a defined process to be followed in order to get on the main page - you can't just demand he be put up because you thinks its notable --Daviessimo (talk) 11:07, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

It seems anyone can make Gordon Brown look like a right idiot at the moment but thats not the point, Michael Jackson doesnt control Nuclear missiles a Navy an airforce and an army, whereas (for better or for worse!) Gordon Brown does.Willski72 (talk) 11:03, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

I think if it was properly advertised then it would be possible for Michael Jackson to make the Featured Article slot on the 1 month anniversary of his death, by shear weight of numbers alone. Go for it Forsena, don't listen to some of the rude people here. MickMacNee (talk) 10:50, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

PS even if Michael Jackson could of set of a socialist revolution in Croatia (which i doubt) it would fizzle out after a few weeks due to lack of sustained support. If he had tried it in the 80s before he made all those rubbish modern songs then things might be different...Willski72 (talk) 11:07, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

For the most part, month anniversaries don't count for much. A year, or, even better, decade or century, anniversary would be your best bet. J Milburn (talk) 11:16, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

FWIW, discussion on whether / when to schedule Michael Jackson as Today's Featured Article is already underway here. Bencherlite^Talk 11:26, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

I thought I was quite clear when I said Michael Jackson should be on Main Page you don't need telepathic skills to see that there is no words about news of his death (much different than saying news about Michael Jackson's death should be on main page), but unfortunately I wasn't so I'm sorry about that. TFOWR, spare me of your pathetic humor, I don't think it is very nice to make fun of me especially because we're all going through a very hard period because of death of Michael Jackson.Daviessimo you are assuming that I'm a POV aggressive editor because I contribute to Serbia-related articles? Your suspicions are almost as pathetic as his humor is. I was stating the fact that resignation of a PM of a small country most people never heard of isn't more important then the death of the world's best singer who has ten times more fans than of that country's population and who's one album was sold in 110 million copies. If Serbian PM resigned I would say the same. Most of things you said had nothing with MJ, but I will answer anyway, it was not a Balkan-related warring it was reverting destructive and insulting edits of an albanian editor. No, relativism theory doesn't suggest that resignation of a PM that maybe 1% of Wikipedia's visitors have heard of and death of Michael Jackson should be treated equally, if you think so you misunderstood the concept of the theory. Willski72 based on what do you suggest that one pm of a small country has more "power" than Michael Jackson? Only one Michael Jackson's album (Thriller) sold 110 million copies, that's approx 25 times more than the size of the country of that PM. In opinion of most PM you're talking about has no power compared to such an epic man like Michael Jackson. If so he wouldn't resign. Willski72 I doubt that he is more important in Croatia, but even if so, this is not Croatia's Wikipedia but World's wikipedia. I really don't care that you find his songs rubbish just to see his performance once is a proof how epic he was. The fact he got title for best singer and entertainer of the Millenium means much more than your opinion.--Forsena (talk) 17:27, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Oh me me me! (what about me, why was I not capitalised?) I'm collecting misunderstandings and allegations of badness and thought I was on a roll - darn it! :D (Note: This is my attempt to outdo TFOWR in the pathetic humour department - how did I do?) Anyway we're all emotional, it's very sad (there's even a section above which references his songs) and we're all having sleepless nights thinking about the suffering of his family. Our nights are divided between crying about Michael Jackson, the capsized sailors, Pakistani soldiers, lost plane passengers, drowning Europeans, blown up train victims... ;( it's been really, really tough on us all lately I can assure you of that. --candle•wicke 18:42, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Not sure this will appear where I want it to (I have only edited a couple of times)....but what a discussion. Hilarious. I was amazed that Jackson got featured other than a news clip on the date of death. All this affected public grief is ridiculous. Get a grip people, there's genuinely important stuff happening in the world - but this poor messed up kid passing away isn't. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.110.165.88 (talk) 15:03, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Me and TWOFR have just been shot down in flames!! You were lucky to get out of that one alive Candlewicke! To Forsena i didnt say ALL his songs were rubbish, just his modern ones. It seems i underestimated the fanatical support he still has, i now realise that he could of probably pulled off a revolution. When you hear comments like "how epic he was" and "world's best dancer, singer and entertainer ever" and "Michael we love you", i now fully believe that many people would take a bullet for him! Nevertheless apart from making anguished fans commit suicide he had no real power over people, he could not raise or lower taxes, declare a state of emergency etc. Cheer up Forsena, at least we didnt mention all those obviously untrue, vile and disgusting claims brought against him over the years.Willski72 (talk) 19:04, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Wilski I would gladly take more than one bullet for him, I would do anything so he could live again, anything! He was NOT a politician he was a singer how on Earth would he lower taxes or anything like that? He donated millions and millions to help poor children. More than any/most politicians did. --Forsena (talk) 19:24, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

If I was being harsh I could say that he also spent millions on a fairytale home to fiddle with children in, then run into fantastic amounts of debt. But I won't. Oops! Just because you love Michael Jackson doesn't mean that a website you frequent should erect a shrine to the man. Some PM isn't more (or less) important than Jackson to our Main Page - it's just another news story that happened more recently and pushed him off ITN. ITN has a fixed length, every story will eventually be pushed off the bottom of it. We're not going to rewrite some policy for a pop singer, however good/famous. —Vanderdecken∴ ∫ξφ 20:01, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

He earned millions of dollars because of his epic songs that are still popular and amazing dancing style. He didn't spend all the money on himself he gave millions and millions to poor people, to many organizations helping poor children. He also performed a lot of concerts for poor children earning no money to himself. But wait you expected him to keep his millions in a bank? What's wrong with a man who earned his money fairly to buy himself a more-than-deserved home? Many celebrities who had less money bought dozens of bigger ranches some even hundreds and weren't criticized and you criticize Michael because of one? I bet you wouldn't live in a small apartment if you had so much money. He was acquitted understand? Acquitted! It was all proven to be lies in which those boys and their parents were to earn money and media cooperated trying to make Michael be the evil guy, Michael wouldn't have hurt a fly, he loved children in fact he was a big child himself with a pure soul, unlike most spoiled celebrities. I wasn't asking anything else but to put his featured article on main page for some time, not because I love him, because he deserves it. The world, the media, his father caused him so much bad things, and still he didn't hate them. I bet most of you who insult him now, tried to imitate Moonwalking when you were little --Forsena (talk) 21:17, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Careful Vanderdecken! You're mentioning those "obviously untrue, vile and digusting claims" that are guaranteed to wind up the Michael Jackson fanatics to fever pitch!Willski72 (talk) 20:53, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Vanderdecken, have you no honor? How can you say such lies and nonsense about man who recently died. Even if you hate him can't you show little respect and honor from your side? I learned from him not to hate otherwise I would be answering in much worse language. Because of people like you he was in debts, media talked all the worst untrue BS about him which was later proven to be false. You obviously know nothing about him except what you heard in the media so can you please save that crap for yourself? For God sake even his home you are talking about is named Neverland! --Forsena (talk) 21:24, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

'we're all going through a very hard period because of death of Michael Jackson' wow, are we? Funny that, I never noticed; seems to me that most people actually don't care, or in many cases would prefer the news coverage to just shut up already. I'm fairly sure that more than 1% of our readers have heard of Croatia. Finally, if you're bizarrely accusing Vanderdecken of only knowing things about him from the media, does that mean you have some personal contact or some other information that wasn't conferred through some form of media? This discussion has gone WAY off topic and does NOT belong on T:MP; take it to WP:TFAR (which I notice you have not bothered to nominate the article at). Modest Genius ^talk 21:35, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Nobody here hates Michael Jackson, we just dont worship him as a Prophet or demi-god. He had 4 days in the news and there is a discussion on him being put on the featured article. However the proper channels have to be consulted, no man is so great that they are above Wikipedia rules, not even Michael Jackson.Willski72 (talk) 21:47, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

I wonder if Wikipedia is the new 'measure' of fame, in as much that if John Lennon was alive today, he'd be saying the Beatles were bigger than Wikipedia --Daviessimo (talk) 22:21, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

I just asked a featured article I asked for little respect but guess that some nerd rules are more important. --Forsena (talk) 11:21, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

You asked "Please can someone put Michael Jackson on main page." and then when we failed to understand that you actually meant "featured article" you complained "Geez people if you dont understand what i'm talking about don't answer." Respect cuts both ways. Cheers, TFOWR^{This flag once was red} 11:30, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

More significantly, people explained to you what you had to do if you wanted to get Michael Jackson on TFA. Despite, this, you made NO attempt to contact Raul654 or go thorough the proper subpage. It's unclear if Raul654, who is the only one who could put this as TFA is even aware of this discussion and even if he was, I don't see any reason why he should have listened to someone, who couldn't be bothered to follow a simple system even when it was clearly pointed out to him and instead prefered to do a whole bunch of whining on this page Nil Einne (talk) 13:14, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

I hate him. No, seriously, Willski and Modest Genius are right - some celebrity died, great, but we are not altering Main Page policy just because you like him. His article is not a featured article - work it to FA status, nominate it, get it passed, then get it put on the Main Page. We are not going to fast-track it for you or anyone, so quit your whining. And everybody else, I know this is plain hypocrisy given my last comment here, but enough with the troll-baiting. —Vanderdecken∴ ∫ξφ 13:44, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

Um, Michael Jackson is a featured article. Modest Genius ^talk 16:45, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

All the better, now it just has to be nominated and past.Willski72 (talk) 16:49, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

I find Zelaya far more interesting than some nutjob singer. I spent several months in Honduras and found the lack of admiration for money hungry weirdos quite comforting. Joy.discovery.invention (talk) 14:35, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

Thriller on July 7

• UPDATE: Thriller (album) is currently now scheduled for July 7.[1] There was concern on WT:TFAR#MJ? to actually post the actual Michael Jackson article on the Main Page because for the next few weeks it technically will not follow the featured article criterion "its content does not change significantly from day to day". So Thriller (album) became a compromise. Zzyzx11 (talk) 00:09, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

I have a question. Why is the image for the featured article a picture of Michael, as opposed to the actual cover art of Thriller?Tenniru (talk) 02:20, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

The album cover is not free. We no longer use non-free images on the main page. —David Levy 02:30, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Generally, we only use fair-use images on article pages. But Fair-Use images should never be used in any other namespace.  Marlith (Talk)  17:16, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Is it just me that finds this selection massively biased? Oh well... weburiedoursecretsinthegarden 08:46, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

The overwhelming willpower of Forsena and co mean that we are defenceles in stopping the Michael Jackson wave washing through Wikipedia and destroying all in its wake!!!Willski72 (talk) 09:08, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

I think Willski's actually quite close to the truth here. Unless Thriller was chosen coincidentially, I can't see any policy reason to place this on the main page. Seems to be a case of "consensus" by lots of people wanting something to happen. Not a good thing. J Milburn (talk) 10:13, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, I take that back. I see today is a good date, as it is his funeral today. J Milburn (talk) 10:17, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

As J Milburn has stated, today's his funeral and this is by no means coincidental, and yes, it's fairly normal to choose articles associated with a person on a day significant to that person (or otherwise associated with a time in some way). This is similar to the way we had two featured articles on last year's American presidential election day, of the two main candidates; and many other similar occurances. There is even a request page for the FA director to consider such requests. Nil Einne (talk) 10:41, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Coming back to the picture for Thriller article. I know cover is not used because it is a non-free image but why is there a policy to not have a low res non-free fair use image on main page to begin with? As far as i can tell we are still only referring to the context. Main page is technically still not a gallery... which to my understanding is where we can not use a non-free image. Ashishg55 (talk) 14:45, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia:FAQ/Main Page#Why is a Main Page section missing an illustrative image? might answer your question. Zzyzx11 (talk) 14:56, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

This just about sums up my feelings on this subject. I bet this isn't the last Jacko story we see on the main page in the coming months! --LookingYourBest (talk) 17:19, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Perhaps you require a facial tissue? Wikipedia is not made of paper so I can only offer you the link with which to wipe yourself... --candle•wicke 17:46, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Alternatively, you can open this image and wipe your eyes across the screen. --candle•wicke 17:55, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Haha, sorry, but I take back my "isn't this a bit biased"... first day of the Ashes and we get an English (i.e. not Australian) cricketer... Good luck Aussies? weburiedoursecretsinthegarden 09:19, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

South African, I think?--Wehwalt (talk) 11:12, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

After reading this, I must say that I don't hate MJ. I hate the people who worship and "love" him 80.123.210.172 (talk) 10:51, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Independence Day

So D-Day only got a featured picture and was excluded from "on this day" under the "it only should appear in one section per day", but now we have a featured picture and on this day for Independence Day. Are there 2 standards at work here or has policy changed as a result of the d-day discussions? Knowledgeum :  Talk  08:33, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

It's mentioned as a holiday (because this recurs each year), but does not have an item in OTD. Whilst you have a point, I think the current setup is fair enough. Modest Genius ^talk 13:32, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

The other difference is that the main article in POTD is Trumbull's Declaration of Independence, not Independence Day (United States), whereas on June 6, both OTD and POTD would have led to Normandy Landings. howcheng {chat} 20:04, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

It's been explained here (so I assume its true) that OTD is not intended as a list of The Most Important things that happened today. It's not a top ten list. It's been explained that it's intended as an interesting assortment of things that are at least moderately important. If that's true, and I can't find the policy that backs it up, then all these questions of "Why this one, but not that one?" become meaningless. APL (talk) 17:52, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

WP:OTD#Criteria for listing items on this set of page: "[Basically], a combination of the 'majorness' of the event, the mix of items already listed, along with the relative completeness of the article, are the criteria used, along with the requirement for appropriate 'context'." Zzyzx11 (Talk) 01:27, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Also, all else being equal, an article that wasn't listed last year (or in recent years) takes precedence over one that was (as a tie-breaker when there isn't room for both). Correct? —David Levy 01:48, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Ideally, yes. If "the most important or significant events" was the only criterion, that would put a tremendous burden on admins since it would be 100 percent subjective. On a day-to-day basis, events that are "the most important or significant" to one person, group or organization are not necessarily felt the same way to another. Thus, it could make the section either purely original research (if picked by admins/users here) or a copyright violation (if it is based on a third party). Therefore, we have other factors that are a bit more objective like listing a mix of topics and whether the articles are well-written. Zzyzx11 (talk) 02:23, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Honduras and the OAS

The News section states that the OAS has suspended Honduras, but shouldn't it also be noted that Honduras actually left the organization prior to being suspended? AP: Honduras leaves OAS after body decries coup LCpl (talk) 22:38, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

According to OAS, "an illegitimate government" cannot remove a member nation. [2] --BorgQueen (talk) 05:33, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

To Infinity and Beyond on Main Page

Hi, not sure if this is the right place to ask this, but can one send a page to AFD if it is on the main page? I'm going to assume the answer is no but I'd like confirmation. Thanks very much, weburiedoursecretsinthegarden 09:11, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

This article is not on the main page, is it? Anyway, probably you can send it to AfD. More appropriate place for such questions is one of the divisions at Village pump, though. --Tone 09:24, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, at DYK. Thanks for the tip off about VP - I've still not really figured out what exactly that's for! :P weburiedoursecretsinthegarden 09:29, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

Curiously, I can't find it in DYK, not even the link... VP is indeed useful when you are not sure about something, people there are helpful. --Tone 09:48, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

That's a bit irritating, it got taken off around an hour ago. D'oh. Never mind then... weburiedoursecretsinthegarden 09:50, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

:-) --Tone 09:53, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

There's no problem with you nominating a page at DYK, but, once it is nominated, it should probably be replaced. I think there's a policy against DYKing AFDed articles, but not AFDing DYKed articles. J Milburn (talk) 09:54, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

Yes, that makes sense. Thanks, weburiedoursecretsinthegarden 15:15, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

HOax

not sure where to write this, but at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermann_Schmitz_(industrialist) an editor apparently introduced a hoax into article (Hitler was not in power in 1930, the BIS was never a European Central Bank etc.). Maybe there are procedure here at wikipedia to deal with users that introduce incorrect information into articles. I also think that the second paragraph is written in a sensationalist and un-encyclopeadic way —Preceding unsigned comment added by Christian.moritz (talk • contribs) 16:43, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

This is not really the correct place to ask this question. I will move this question to Talk:Hermann Schmitz (industrialist). I have added a refimprove tag as a start to the article and will investigate to see if I can find any information. Please followup any information at Talk:Hermann Schmitz (industrialist). A new name 2008 (talk) 16:56, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

Rhinotia hemistictus is a species in the Belidae family of weevils. The belids are known as "primitive weevils" because they have straight antennae, unlike the "true weevils" or Curculionidae which have elbowed antennae.

no insects on the front page please, some of you are just sick sick people —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.27.24.247 (talk) 17:11, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

no humans on the front page please, some of you are just sick sick weevils. Yuck, their eyes and the way they poo and pee and they only have two legs and the way they move on them and their "ears" agh I'm being physically sick just saying that word! Blurgh, it makes me vomit they make baby humans with their own bodies and they have fingers too and hair and saliva and breasts get it away before my guts pop out ugh. (common Weevilpedia complaint) --candle•wicke 18:15, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

We have a nice, non-objectionable street article scheduled for the day after tomorrow. <grin> Raul654 (talk) 18:24, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Sigh, open the betting... longer or shorter section of comments than Michael Jackson... --candle•wicke 18:30, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Good Lord. There will be Hell to pay... J Milburn (talk) 19:42, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!!! I sincerely hope that is on, please please please may that be on the front page!!Willski72 (talk) 22:26, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Oh WOW, I'm looking forward to this one! hilarious! Modest Genius ^talk 03:33, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Hmm, I thought that article was being considered for April Fool's Day. Guess that's being overruled? howcheng {chat} 16:55, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Parrot of Doom and Malleus Fatuorum (the article's primary contributors) both prefer that article not be run on April Fools' Day. However, Parrot has "volunteered a more suitable article, which hopefully will be FA by that time, in Mary Tofts." —David Levy 17:10, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

7/7 bombing

Were the July 7th bombing in London, 2005 not thought of as notable enough to go in the 'on this day' section? There are no recent items hare either. Sorry for the late comment, not much use. -Finkzizard 21:51, 7 July 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.210.40.48 (talk)

(moved to bottom) Because such events are generally featured on the 10th anniversary (or 20, 30, you get the idea). Sorry, weburiedoursecretsinthegarden 20:59, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Garden, I hate to contradict you, but not a single item on OTD was a multiple of ten years ago. Personally, I would consider the 7/7 bombings more significant than the sliced bread anniversary, but I'm probably a little biased- they were in my lifetime, and in my country. J Milburn (talk) 21:44, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Woops. My bad. weburiedoursecretsinthegarden 09:23, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Apologies for puting my comment in the wrong place, this year was a significant anniversary as today the memorial for the deceased was unveiled. -Finkzizard 22:57, 7 July 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.109.17.8 (talk)

Our coverage of the memorial is practically nil. We have a brief mention on 7 July 2005 London bombings memorials and services which I just updated, but no article. There's enough coverage to warrant one, I will write it tomorrow if no one beats me to it. J Milburn (talk) 22:06, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Wikinews has an article, if anyone is interested in reading it. J Milburn (talk) 22:07, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

(edit conflict) The memorial has been mentioned in Ireland by RTÉ if you need or wish to use a non-British source. --candle•wicke 22:11, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

• In case your interested in a reason. An event that is "the most important and significant one on this day" is not automatically posted as there is other criteria than that. Zzyzx11 (Talk) 01:17, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
  • "Your" -> "you're". Sorry, couldn't resist :D weburiedoursecretsinthegarden 09:24, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Difficulties

Please friends, I can not find pages related to Michael Jackson, I have difficulty with the issues to be beginner, my address to contact for answers is <removed> —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fbrazill (talk • contribs) 14:31, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

See Michael Jackson. weburiedoursecretsinthegarden 14:36, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Google Chrome OS

I wonder why the announcement of Google Chrome OS release has not be covered in WikiNews section of WP frontpage. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.175.73.201 (talk) 15:06, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

The same reason why the latest Twilight book didn't make it there? –Howard the Duck 15:12, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Because it's just an announcement, not a release? I'm not sure ITN even does tech news as a general rule, but I'd be highly surprised if Chrome OS had made it into ITN at this stage. Cheers, TFOWR^{This flag once was red} 15:17, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Its absurd to compare Google Chrome OS announcement to Twilight book release. It is the very first time Microsofts monopoly over desktop computer OS market is seriously being challenged and WP readers will appreciate being told about this development. But I agree with TFOWR that release of Chrome would be more newsworthy than the mere announcement of its release. talk —Preceding undated comment added 15:41, 8 July 2009 (UTC).

Right, well, go make an article on it with suitable sources, shove it at WP:ITN/C and I'll get back to you. weburiedoursecretsinthegarden 15:48, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

But Microsoft's monopoly isn't being challenged. It's just an announcement - nothing has been released. And when/if it is released it'll initially be for netbooks only. Look, I run pretty much every-OS-but-Windows and I'd love to see a serious contender emerge - and when one does it will be notable. But right now all we have is an announcement - vapourware, if you like. Google are great, and I do have every confidence that they'll make good on this attempt, and when they do we should applaud it, but until then it's nothing big in ITN terms. Cheers, TFOWR^{This flag once was red} 16:00, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Not to get all forumy but can I ask a stupid question... don't Apple and Linux make OSes? :/ weburiedoursecretsinthegarden 16:06, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Well, quite. And various BSDs too. I guess the idea is that Microsoft have a virtual monopoly (kind of like IE compared to Firefox, Safari, etc) and since Google is huge they'll succeed where Apple have failed (I'll unfairly dismiss Linux and BSD for being tiny ;-) ). And when Google is successful I'll concede the point! But 'til then... vapourware! Cheers, TFOWR^{This flag once was red} 16:16, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

apple who?!? Ashishg55 (talk) 16:19, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

These guys ;-) They make computers that run only on love.

I actually came back to acknowledge that 193.175.73.201 did actually respond to my original point, but I managed to miss it - apologies for that! Still, it gives us a good opportunity to make bad puns about the computer industry.

Cheers, TFOWR^{This flag once was red} 16:22, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Such a confusing but WIDE WEB of possibilities opened by the above statement... --candle•wicke 17:42, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

I wonder if this wide web of possibilities extends around the world, I would hate to think we where keeping the possibilities for ourselves!Willski72 (talk) 19:12, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Hmmm... such a shame this will be buried beneath Gropecunt Lane. --candle•wicke 00:13, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

It might be a newsworthy announcement - when the OS actually comes out. Until then, it's just vaporware. 99.20.114.20 (talk) 01:02, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Possible double-standards on what is and is not appropriate for the Main Page

A month or so ago, I nominated Cunt (video game) for DYK. Hook, source, and everything was verified, but was deemed as "inappropriate for the Main Page"; see Wikipedia talk:Did you know/Archive 47#Appropriate for the main page?. Fast forward to today, where Today's Featured Article, Gropecunt Lane is proudly displayed in plain sight for the entire world to view. I am failing to see the difference in appropriateness in the two and think that a double-standard is being applied. Perhaps we should nail down more, across the board, what is and is not appropriate for the Main Page. MuZemike 00:19, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Whilst I see your point, Gropecunt Lane is rather less explicit - referring to prostitution but not sex acts themselves. That DYK hook sailed rather closer to the wind. Personally, I see no reason not to run both of them, but I can also see why a line might be drawn that ran between them. Modest Genius ^talk 00:31, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

It doesn't matter to me now whether or not the DYK is run, just trying to point this out. MuZemike 00:34, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

(edit conflict) (twice) I viewed that hook and it appeared to be a lot more explicit that Gropecunt Lane which (in my opinion) handles itself with more sensitivity. But that's just me. --candle•wicke 00:34, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not always consistent - if seven people weigh in on a 50/50 issue, 1% of the time the "vote" will be unanimously for, and 1% of the time it will be unanimously against. The policy is that it isn't censored. But there's something of a glut of DYK's, and we're often seeing objections like "we just had one like that" that don't usually apply in other decisions. There's a great hurry to pick a few out of the crowd for each new day, and sometimes unfair arguments are used. Wnt (talk) 00:48, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

• ... that players in the Flash game Cunt take control of a penis that shoots semen at an enemy vagina?

I fail to see how just because they share one word they are equally inappropriate. The DYK hook was explicit, Gropecunt Lane is not. The word 'cunt' was not the issue, it was how it was used. \ Backslash Forwardslash / {talk} 01:08, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Double that. If you follow the talk archive link MuZemike gave, you can see that the main objection is not to the word "cunt" per se, but to the graphic nature and bawdy subject matter of the article. We even kicked around the idea of using a piped hook that wouldn't have the word "cunt" in it at all, but even that would not have been acceptable. rʨanaɢ ^talk/_contribs 01:33, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Was it really necessary to put this front and center before thousands of child readers?

appears to have been derived as a compound of the words "grope" and "cunt".

They have to learn some time... --candle•wicke 00:37, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

chances are they already know those words if they are on internet. Ashishg55 (talk) 00:39, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

(e/c)...and their responsible parents or guardians won't be allowing them unfettered access to a website that parades WP:CENSOR, surely? Or was the IP talking about those poor children without responsible parents or guardians, but who do have internet access? Cheers, TFOWR^{This flag once was red} 00:40, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

This is what the article was about, really. In an earlier era these words were just words, vulgar (i.e. common) descriptions of body parts and activities. Then people decided that nice gentlemen and ladies didn't talk about these things. Later they decided that they could talk about those things, but they just can't use those specific words. And now people exposed to more linguistic diversity are coming back to the idea that there was never anything wrong with these words. The good news is that if we keep it up, in a few decades your kids won't be able to find a vulgar word on the Internet... because there won't be any word considered vulgar. See you in the Garden of Eden.  ;) Wnt (talk) 00:54, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Please, think of the fictional children! Sceptre ^(talk) 00:55, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not censored ESTEMSHORN^talk_Sign 01:02, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Including information about offensive material is part of Wikipedia's encyclopedic mission; being offensive is not. --Allen3 ^talk 01:07, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

I'm not bothered by the children, I'm bothered by my access to wikipedia. My employer (and I'm sure they're not the only one) blocks websites that use profanity. With all the options available for featured article, I'm bemused that "Gropecunt Lane" was chosen. It smacks a little of "look I can use naughty words and you can't stop me."123.208.72.170 (talk) 01:40, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

ur employer blocks the words grope and cunt... even if they are on wikipedia... u might wanna tell ur employer to find a smarter blocking software or just switch jobs. Ashishg55 (talk) 01:53, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Unfortunately a lot of people find the word "cunt" offensive. I'm not sure that it was a wise choice for the mainpage. It is fair to say that there are people who might consider the word "cunt" to be the most offensive word in our language.

My personal view is it should not appear without a direct request from the user.

I find it disappointing that those responsible have not considered the feelings of others before deciding to publish this article in such a prominent position. I add that I am not offended by it, however I can safely say that in my experience, most people I know would be. 150.101.154.90 (talk) 02:15, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

• I wonder if there is a name for this wikipedia phenomenon where only anonymous IP addresses complain about something being offensive. Ashishg55 (talk) 02:58, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

It's hardly surprizing: people who go so far as to create accounts on Wikipedia are less likely to be opposed so fundamentally to one of our core policies. Even if they are, most will know that complaining here will not change anything. Algebraist 03:23, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Cunt and vagina refer to the exact same body part. It's just an accident of lexical history that one is considered inappropriate and the other appropriate. --Nricardo (talk) 04:12, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Whilst it is a well-written article that is worthy of its place in WP, I am suspicious that its placement on the main page is the result of a prank to exploit WP policies to get the word "cunt" there. We all know that is a word that is going to be regarded as offensive by a lot of readers -- placing it on the main page goes beyond WP:NOTCENSORED and suggests that slavish adherence to policy or making a point about censorship trumps consideration for readers. Duncan Keith (talk) 06:08, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

WP:AFP - really. Crafty (talk) 06:17, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Being on the main page is a testament to the amount of work that some contributors have done in order to get this article to featured status. Surely it would be a dis-service to allow hard work to be omitted from the main page merely because some people find the word "cunt" offensive. How can anyone think it is a prank? Someone got this to featured article status and it should have a equal opportunity of being put on the main page as any other FA.Dark verdant (talk) 07:50, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

I agree with Duncan Keith. My understanding is that Wikipedia operates, in no small part, upon achieving an agreement. If there were to be a straightforward vote upon whether this is a suitable subject for the Main Page, I would vote NO. Whether it should exist as an article is another matter (it should). When the daily email appeared in my inbox here at work, I involuntarily blushed & deleted it immediately, wondering if it was the work of vandals. I am not a prude, and I find the concept of society's attitudes towards a word quite fascinating, but I do detest this word. I find something altogether immature about using this for TFA, even if it technically satisfies other criteria. Just seems like some fun for a bunch of anarchists. Careful With That Axe, Eugene |Talk 08:10, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Quick comment. Wouldn't normally do this. For me, Wikipedia is about learning. I learned something new today that I doubt I would have learned ever in my lifetime if it hadn't been on the Main page. While I was shocked and surprised (although I'm never one to take offense at mere words), I am also extremely grateful. Thank you. GDallimore (Talk) 08:32, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Well, at least this has had some benefit :) However, there are plenty FAs that likely will never get onto the main page: 1987 (What the Fuck Is Going On?) is one example. This was a pretty controversial one too, but it's quite amazing how people are so ignorant of WP:CENSOR - it's not like we don't flaunt it. weburiedoursecretsinthegarden 09:02, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Actually, I have issues with WP:CENSOR since it is irrelevant in light of the all-pervading principle that Wikipedia is an encyclopedia and unhelpful in muddying the waters when people want to include objectionable/offensive but otherwise unencyclopedic content. Maybe one day I'll have the courage to challenge those aspects of the policy I disagree with and objections to articles like this can be a positive "see WP:What Wikipedia is" rather than the negative "see WP:What Wikipedia is not". GDallimore (Talk) 09:35, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

I would like to go back to that point about only people without accounts have complained. Thats because the first reaction of everyone with an account is "HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!" and then "This is even funnier than when they had the nudey lady on the front page!!". Personally i think it was a good idea naming the streets occupation, to stop "the children!" wondering down there at night!Willski72 (talk) 08:48, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

I'm 12 years old, and what is this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.239.152.4 (talk) 11:13, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

I had imagined, perhaps incorrectly that it didn't matter if one had an account or not to make comment. I feel my comments have been constructive in nature and were made to further debate on the issue. Some of the other comment has been great I must say. If someone feels I'd be better of making my comments as a user please feel free to say why on my talk page. 150.101.154.90 (talk) 09:24, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

I know wikipedia is not censored, but it seems pretty hypocritical that Jenna Jameson has been vetoed from ever appearing on the main page while links to cunt are deemed ok. For that matter, see the featured images Howcheng has vetoed from appearing - is a picture of a defaecating seagull so repulsive but this is not? 82.28.130.10 (talk) 09:34, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Further down this page there's a comment that a video game called "Cunt" was blocked from appearing in "Did you know?" on the main page. I think there's a reasonable difference between, on the one hand, a pornographic actress (or a provocatively titled videogame) and, on the other hand, a street name from antiquity. I suppose the benchmark I apply might be how I would treat the subject with a 10-year old relative - I'd have no problem discussing "Gropecunt Street" ("a street named after two very old Anglo-Saxon words, which are now considered very rude but back then were simply normal, everyday words"), but I would prefer not to have to discuss Jenna Jameson or "Cunt - the video game in which a penis fires at a vagina".

Picking up on 150.101.154.90's point, IP comments are welcome and I personally don't think you should feel obliged to register a username. I think this debate has highlighted that most regular editors take WP:CENSOR for granted ("everyone knows about it!") but the reality is that many readers are surprised at the things you sometimes find in an encyclopaedia (any encyclopaedia, to be fair - I can remember looking up all kinds of "dirty" stuff in school encyclopaedias many moons ago). There does tend to be some degree of self-censorship when it comes to main page images: there are in-jokes referenced further down this page about insects - these refer to the controversy over a main page image of an insect devouring its mate, if I remember correctly. So I suspect the guano-spreading seagull image was never going to make the main page ;-)

Cheers, TFOWR^{This flag once was red} 11:13, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Some computer systems have crude filers that block certain combinations of letters. This is very inconvenient for the Lincolnshire seaside resort of S****horpe. Peter jackson (talk) 10:48, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Can this please be removed from the front page? This website is an excellent educational tool for children but there's no way i'm allowing mine to access it whilst there are very strong swear words on the front page. Did someone think they were being clever and controversial selecting this as a front page article? Grow up. --Rcclh (talk) 10:57, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

• It is grown up. Read the article. I did and learned things I didn't know before and, as a previous poster has also stated, would not have were this not a featured article. This website is an excellent educational tool for adults, too, and I don't see why I should have what I can learn dictated by others. Bazza (talk) 11:15, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

• • Spectacularly missed my point. I didn't say the article wasn't grown-up. The article is quite interesting and educational. I was referring to the selection of it on the front page. --Rcclh (talk) 11:54, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

• Are you suggesting you allow your children unrestricted access to websites? Any time my (10-year old) niece is online at my house I always surf for her. Having said that, I'd have no problem with her reading this particular article, but then I'd be more than happy to explain what "cunt" meant in Anglo-Saxon times, and it would be a good opportunity to explain that the word's meaning has changed and it is an entirely inappropriate word to use today. Cheers, TFOWR^{This flag once was red} 11:17, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

• • No i'm not suggesting that, but carry on making baseless assumptions if you want. I would suggest most parents would not want their children seeing or hearing this word. Putting on the front page, knowing it would cause offence is just being controversial for the sake of it. Congratulations on alienating a significant percentage of your readership. --Rcclh (talk) 11:54, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

• • • Which part of my reply do you consider to be a baseless assumption? Is it a baseless assumption to assume that responsible parents/guardians don't allow minors to surf without supervision? Supervision prevents children seeing this. I have no concerns about alienating our readership - those readers who want to learn can continue to do so, and we may just have highlighted some important parenting issues for some (ex-)readers too. Cheers, TFOWR^{This flag once was red} 12:02, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

If Rcclh has a problem he can always take it up with Raul, and where is the evidence for "alienating a signifincant percentage of [our] readership", the page had less than 1,000 views a day, which will increase for three days but Wikipedia is not responsible for the parenting of children, parents are. Darrenhusted (talk) 12:18, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Its seen as "risque", pushing the boundaries into a new dimension, seeing the wild from a new and fresh perspective, and a lot of other modern art crap.Willski72 (talk) 11:04, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

What is worse is that the IP posted this topic at the top in an attempt to get attention. If you have a problem talk to Raul. Also this is going to be on the front page for the next three days, so I'd get used to it. Darrenhusted (talk) 11:06, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Nobody cares of course, but I'll just add that I'm offended by it and will not be visiting the front page of Wikipedia again. I'll only Google in to specific pages from here on in. Maybe I'm an old fuddy duddy, but I don't watch modern TV for much the same reasons. There is no reason to put such a thing on the front page of a top 10 in the world web site. It's disgusting. Oh, and the reason I'm posting an 'anonymous' comment is because I see no reason whatsoever to create yet another internet based account to (heretofore) correct spelling mistakes/whatever on Wikipedia pages. If you think it makes my views less important then that's another point against Wikipedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.20.150.13 (talk) 11:24, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

We will miss you, those two edits you made in January 2007 were such an important part of Wikipedia. But if street names offend then don't go to S****horpe, and nearly every street sign has a **** on it. Darrenhusted (talk) 11:27, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

@the IP - your views are valued as much as any. Someone has worked incredibly hard to get Gropecunt up to the status it is at the minute, and that achievement has been honoured to the extreme by displaying the article on the main page. weburiedoursecretsinthegarden 11:29, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

what's disgusting? it's not talking about anything offensive. it's historically accurate.

Norway in Did You Know

Are we going through this whole ordeal again about minute details on Norway being presented as some curious fact that people should know? I think it puts my country in a bad light, and please save the sarcasm. 193.213.19.176 (talk) 01:41, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

This issue would be better raised at Wikipedia talk:Did you know rather than here. The Main Page doesn't have direct control over what facts get put in DYK. rʨanaɢ ^talk/_contribs 01:47, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

I've copied this thread to WT:DYK#Norway in Did You Know. Please make further comments there, rather than here. rʨanaɢ ^talk/_contribs 01:52, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Please, are we going to get this every time we put something related to Norway? :( weburiedoursecretsinthegarden 08:55, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

As a change from Ugandan negotiations' (or whatever the Private Eye term was)? (Linking up with previous subject of discussion) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.104.132.41 (talk) 10:51, 9 July 2009 (UTC)