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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by RMCD bot (talk | contribs) at 20:52, 22 June 2024 (Updating requested pagemoves list). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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This page lists all requests filed or identified as potentially controversial which are currently under discussion.

This list is also available in a page-link-first format and in table format. 70 discussions have been relisted.

June 22, 2024

  • (Discuss) – Shi Ping (politician) → Shi Ping – I recently moved the page Shi Ping from the former aircraft designer to a disambig page due to him being not the only Shi Ping and with seemingly no clear PTOPC. However, this particular Shi Ping was a former politician, soldier and academic who held many notable posts in government and academia, while also being (supposedly) the oldest living person in all of China, seems to be the PTOPIC of this name (he is also the first thing that comes up when looking up Shi Ping for what its worth). Zinderboff(talk) 08:42, 22 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • (Discuss) – Hong Kong Film Award → Hong Kong Film Awards – The plural form is the one in both common and official usage, including in the article itself and whenever referenced elsewhere on Wikipedia, and makes the most sense given that there are multiple awards. Moreover, pretty much all other awards ceremonies are in the plural (eg, Academy Awards, Golden Horse Awards), so this would be consistent with that; indeed Wikipedia:Naming conventions (plurals) says that articles about groups of things should be plural, and this is very much a group of awards. Pinging @UnitedStatesian: you moved the article to the singular form a long time ago citing a discussion at WP:NC, and while I was not able to find a discussion post referencing this page, I don't doubt its existence, but I do think its reasoning should be revisited in light of the overwhelming usage to the contrary. In fact I tried to move this page myself but found myself unable to because the plural was previously in use so the page already exists. ChromeGames (talk · contribs) 04:15, 22 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

June 21, 2024

  • (Discuss) – Machine Identification Code → Printer tracking dots – or Tracking dots. Several sources (and the Wikipedia article) refer to these patterns as "tracking dots" or "printer tracking dots", but I have found only one that refers to them as a "machine identification code" (MIC). The one organization that used the MIC term (the Electronic Frontier Foundation) uses lowercase, not title case, and it also does not use the same term consistently (it also calls them "DocuColor tracking dots", "tracking dots", "printer tracking dots", "printer dots", "yellow dots of mystery", "tracking codes", etc.). Ngram analysis shows "tracking dots" more popular than "machine identification code". The Ngram chart also shows substantial pre-2004 use of "machine identification code", which means that the term is also used for other unrelated topics, since the widespread use of these codes wasn't publicly known until 2004. The 2004 PC World article just calls them a "hidden code". I think including "printer" in the name can help make the topic recognizable and clear, since there doesn't seem to really be a very dominant name for the subject. The one possible downside I see for using "printer" in the name is that it could lead to the impression that the codes are used only generated by printers, whereas they are apparently also produced by copiers (although most recent copiers are also printers). —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 19:05, 21 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • (Discuss) – Eddie Clarke (musician) → "Fast" Eddie Clarke – I just thought of this from the RM. I think he's definitely better known by his stage name, as like "Weird Al" Yankovic. Rolling Stone obituary: "Fast" Eddie Clarke [4], NPR obituary: "Fast" Eddie Clarke [5], New York Times obituary: "Fast" Eddie Clarke [6], The Guardian obituary: "Fast" Eddie Clarke [7], ABC News obituary: "Fast" Eddie Clarke [8], Pitchfork obituary: "Fast" Eddie Clarke [9], BBC obituary: "Fast" Eddie Clarke [10], Hollywood Reporter obituary: "Fast" Eddie Clarke [11], CBS obituary: "Fast" Eddie Clarke [12], Entertainment Weekly obituary: "Fast" Eddie Clarke [13]. And on and on. This is also a clear case of WP:NATURALDAB, although I would also argue that he'd be primary topic for Eddie Clarke anyway. Note that whether "Fast" Eddie Clarke or Fast Eddie Clarke doesn't really matter to me, but it's the clear common name. --Quiz shows 12:29, 21 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • (Discuss) – Justine (de Sade novel) → Justine (Sade novel) – In the French naming custom, the prefix "de" is not considered part of last name and is not capitalized. It is not used when the first name or the title is not used, i.e., it is correct to say "Guy de Maupassant" or "Monsieur de Maupassant," but it is incorrect to say "De Maupassant" by itself. This is not a controversial take, it's linguistic fact found in all articles regarding the topic of French naming conventions. Now, the second question to be settled is whether or not "Sade" is the common English usage as well, like Maupassant is. There are cases like De Gaulle where the incorrect rendering is so prevalent in the English-speaking world that it'd be incorrect to redirect a page to refer to him as "Gaulle." However, it can be argued that this is not the case with Sade. While "De Sade" is also common and may even be found in some (generally older) credible sources (the most important of which is Britannica), almost all prominent works regarding him today refer to the correct last name, Sade. This is also a non-controversial take in my opinion, as it is evident in the writer's own article and the works it mentions or lists as sources (such as the famous "Must we burn Sade?" by Simone de Beauvoir or "Sade, Fourier, Loyola" by the famous Roland Barthes. Even further research (outside the body of Wikipedia itself) would show that most prominent, modern, credible works in English refer to him by the universally correct variant and that it's not obscure by any means. Painfully, it seems that this article was originally titled correctly and it was moved to the current title in 2016, whose "support" which I'm reading now in the talk page includes some very questionable statements (such as "...it is quite rare in sources in that form and is mostly only found in obsolete ones...") and even some blatantly incorrect and clearly refutable ones (such as "...the name used as a human name is de Sade"). Without any intention of speaking ad hominem, it seems highly likely that the people in charge of the 2016 move were neither familiar with French nor with works referring to Sade. P. T. Tabayi (talk) 07:35, 14 June 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. Safari ScribeEdits! Talk! 11:33, 21 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

June 20, 2024

  • (Discuss) – 2024 Pune car crash → 2024 Pune Porsche car crash – The word "Porsche" is a big identifier of this case - the brand of the car crashed is a big assosciation and that is how the case is often talked about in the media. People know it as the "Pune Porsche" case rather than the "2024 Pune car crash". Hence, for this article and this case, I believe the word Porsche should be added. The article thumbnail contains all references, more can be researched. To help my case, the article's thumbnail image is already the Porsche car model. Pharaoh496 (talk) 20:12, 12 June 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. ModernDayTrilobite (talk • contribs) 14:22, 20 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • (Discuss) – Louis Mountbatten, 1st Earl Mountbatten of Burma → Louis Mountbatten – Move to match policy. WP:COMMONNAME is most certainly not the tortuous and tautological "Louis Mountbatten, 1st Earl Mountbatten of Burma". WP:NCBRITPEER states [use the title except] for 1) Peers who are almost exclusively known by their personal names, e.g. Bertrand Russell (not "Bertrand Russell, 3rd Earl Russell")., and also 2) When one holder of a title is overwhelmingly the best known: e.g. Alfred, Lord Tennyson and Lord Byron. Lord Louis Mountbatten would also be an acceptable title. BastunĖġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ! 11:20, 20 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

June 19, 2024

June 18, 2024

  • (Discuss) – Jutish → Jutlandic – I'm requesting a move to the new article, along with its associated talk page, because while the terms "Jutish" and "Jutlandic" can be synonyms and refer to either anything related to the ancient Germanic tribe called the 'Jutes', anything related to the Jutland peninsula in Denmark, or the 'Jutlandic dialect' spoken in Denmark, the terms "Jute", "Jutish" and "Jutic" normally refer to anything related to the ancient Germanic tribe called the 'Jutes' (according to the entries on Wiktionary, Jute, Jutish and Jutic), while the terms "Jutlandic" and "Jutlandish" normally refer to anything related to the Jutland peninsula in Denmark, or the 'Jutlandic dialect' spoken in Denmark (according to the entries on Wiktionary, Jutlandic and Jutlandish), while the term "Jutlander" normally refers to anyone from the Jutland peninsula in Denmark (according to the entry on Wiktionary). But this definitely warrants further discussion. It seems we have five options here: # Retain the status quo, with the disambiguation page as the primary topic, # Move Jutlandic dialect to Jutlandic and retarget Jutish to Jutes, # Retarget Jutlandic to Jutish, # Move Jutish to Jutlandic and then do either of the following:  :: a. retarget Jutish to Jutlandic,  :: b. retarget Jutish to Jutes My personal preference is (4b), to move Jutish to Jutlandic and then retarget Jutish to Jutes, so I've styled the RM that way. But editors are also free to suggest whichever option they want in this RM. PK2 (talk) 03:58, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

June 17, 2024

  • (Discuss) – Death of Jeffrey Northrup → R. v. Zameer – The event of Northrup's death is fundamentally the core issue surrounding the trial of Crown v. Zameer, which realistically should be the primary topic on this matter. This topic should fundamentally be about that with the inclusion of Northrup's death and additional details in their totality, not a cursory discussion around just the LEO's death. That presents an undesirable bias centered on the LEO and not on any other substantial issues produced by and/or resultant of the death/trial (notably criticism of the Crown's arguments and theories by the judicial system, possible evidence of collusion admist Crown witnesses, jury instructions, etc). The fact that the trial has concluded, there exists extensive reporting through both legal filings and multiple media sources to substantiate a much more thorough representation of the event described and its greater consequences (as evidenced by judicial and jury outcomes and public discussion). Himay81 (talk) 19:59, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

June 16, 2024

  • (Discuss) – Fraser Island → K'gari – Per WP:COMMONNAME and WP:NAMECHANGES. While this is a contentious topic and it has been just under a year since the most recent move request, I believe it is time to finally make this change. Since the island was officially renamed to K'gari in June 2023 the new name has been overwhelmingly used in sources that talk about the island. I have manually assessed each result in a google news search for both names since the change took place (there have been a lot of dingo attacks...). Of the 353 results, 317 primarily use the name K'gari, and a further 30 either use a dual name or use K'gari equally with Fraser Island. Only 6 sources used Fraser Island on its own, indicating a clear preference for the new name in news sources posted after the name has been changed. Crucially, the preference for the new name is strong across all sources, and in international examples - it's not just one or two outlets frequently posting and skewing the results. Many of the articles do mention that Fraser Island is the former name, but this is typically a passing reference in an article that otherwise demonstrates a preference for K'gari. I also manually assessed google scholar results for this year, and after filtering out a lot of false positives, duplicates, and sources which only had the names used as part of the references (mostly Google getting caught out by authors named K. Gari) I was left with 42 articles. Interestingly, an equal number used K'gari as used Fraser Island (15 each), with 7 either using a dual name or using the names an equal amount. However, the majority of articles were passing references which used the island as a navigational point (eg. "the coast north of K'gari") or as one of several locations (eg. "Specimens were found in the Blue Mountains, the Whitsundays, and Fraser Island"). Articles which focused primarily on the island itself tended to use K'gari, with the total count of references for each name across the academic sources coming in with K'gari at 230 vs. Fraser Island at 69 - again, indicating a stronger usage of the new name. WP:NAMECHANGES states that If the reliable sources written after the change is announced routinely use the new name, Wikipedia should follow suit and change relevant titles to match. The above unambiguously demonstrates that sources written after the change routinely use the new name, and make a strong case that the WP:COMMONNAME of the island is now K'gari - which we should reflect. The most recent move closure saw that usage had shifted and there were grounds to move as of July 2023, but that scholar sources still used Fraser Island predominantly. This has now shifted, with usage even stronger in favour of K'gari. I would also note (as I have seen it come up in previous moves) that the sources used in this are reliable, English sources - WP:USEENGLISH states that we should use the name used in English sources, not that the name needs to be English in origin. As such, the proposed title is still compliant with that. Turnagra (talk) 04:20, 9 June 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. Extraordinary Writ (talk) 19:25, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • (Discuss) – Chairperson → Chairman – "Chairperson" has almost negligible usage compared to "Chairman" [36]. This page should be titled "Chairman" which is the indisputable common name of this article unless another term surpasses it in future. Besides, per WP:NATURALNESS, we should be using the term that readers are most likely to search for, which per Google trends [37] is also chairman, with "chairperson" again having almost negligible searches in comparison. Lastly, the term "chairman" is gender-neutral which you can see in the Oxford Dictionary definition. PadFoot2008 14:38, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

June 15, 2024

Elapsed listings

Shortcut
The 7-day listing period has elapsed. Items below may be closed if there's a consensus, or if discussion has run its course and consensus could not be achieved.

Backlog

Shortcut
Elapsed listings fall into the backlog after 24 hours. Consider relisting 8-day-old discussions with minimal participation.
  • (Discuss) – Sexual and gender-based violence in the 2023 Hamas-led attack on Israel → Sexual violence in the 2023 Hamas-led attack on Israel – Gender-based violence is defined as "any type of harm that is perpetrated against a person or group of people because of their factual or perceived sex, gender, sexual orientation and/or gender identity".[1] It is not currently clear that this article deals with any such violence other than that of a sexual nature, and even then, the lede states that male Israelis were also subjected to sexual violence (which if true suggests that it was not gender-based). A previous discussion on this topic has also shown that many people do not understand what the term "gender-based violence" actually means, so whether including it in the title is usefully descriptive is quite questionable.

References

  1. ^ "What is gender-based violence? - Gender Matters". Council of Europe.
TRCRF22 (talk) 14:54, 4 June 2024 (UTC) — Relisting.  ASUKITE 15:20, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • (Discuss) – MKS Cracovia → Cracovia (football) – On 13 June 2024, Cracovia announced they've reverted back to their historic name 'KS Cracovia SA', or in full, 'Klub Sportowy Cracovia Spółka Akcyjna'. [44] The 'M' in 'MKS' stood for Miejski (Municipal), which is no longer the case after the city of Kraków have sold all their shares in the club. [45][46]. The current name for this page, 'MKS Cracovia', is therefore outdated and only refers to the owner group of the club, MKS Cracovia SSA. (no announcements on whether it will be changed anytime soon). To avoid issues in case they were to ever rename or change their legal entity again, rather than change their name back to 'KS Cracovia (football), I'd like to suggest dropping the 'MKS/KS' from their name altogether. It is not currently clear whether the name change also affects their ice hockey which is run by the same group, but they have started using the new updated logo, which was released along with the name change announcement. [47] The football department is Cracovia's most recognizable in Polish sports, therefore perhaps the page could also be moved to just 'Cracovia', in line with pages such as FC Barcelona and FC Bayern Munich, who also run other notable departments, whose pages contain the sports name in brackets to differentiate them from the 'main' section. KibolLP (talk) 10:11, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • (Discuss) – Chinilpa → Korean collaborators with Imperial Japan – See my talk post above this; this article is currently titled using a term considered derogitory, and isn't exclusively a discussion about the word itself per WP:WORDISSUBJECT. It actually significantly talks about the people alleged to be collaborators. That'd be like talking about a people group under an article titled with a slur for them; that's clearly not neutral, it feels like it's validating the slur. Note: I'm not expressing sympathy for nor opposition to collaborators here, I am purely trying to apply WP:NDESC. My proposed new title matches Category:Korean collaborators with Imperial Japan; I just chose to use it for consistency and because it's an adequate title, open to suggestions for other titles. Side note, but the term itself is possibly independently notable and could eventually get its own article, but current article lengths suggest to me that it should all be in one. 104.232.119.107 (talk) 20:14, 13 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • (Discuss) – Sloboda → Sloboda (settlement) – This word means "freedom" in the original Slavic languages, and while there is a significant usage in Russian and Ukrainian history as well as some usage in modern-day Russian administrative divisions, described at this presumed primary topic, its usage and long-term significance does not actually overshadow the ambiguity over the other uses of the word for the average English reader. In preparation for this move, I went through the list of ~200 incoming links to preemptively disambiguate them. The usage is typically clerical, to explain the strange term, which is most commonly placed in italics. This indicates that the fact that the explanation was directly at "sloboda" was a very easy way to get the etymological explanation. However, that's a possible description of editor behavior, which is not necessarily the reader behavior (WP:RF). It should also be noted that Russian toponymy lists are quite weird from the perspective of a navigation purpose for set indices, with an apparent habit of linking these kinds of terms contrary to what MOS:DABONE would advise. It's not that I'm opposed to having a link somewhere in such a set index to explain the term, but the volume of this skews the statistics. After going through the list, I was left with 19 links (~10%) where I couldn't identify a clear connection to this particular subject. Mostly they seemed to be generic references to the Slavic word for "freedom". This also extended to Russian topics. Some were references to specific places named Sloboda, not the concept. I had also disambiguated numerous others by linking Foobar Svoboda instead of keeping a largely useless partial link (sadly I didn't keep a count of these to be able to note the percentage). A search in Google Books for me does not identify this meaning to be primary - I get more references to people named this way. Likewise for Google Scholar. I don't have reason to believe that this would differ for the average English reader. WikiNav for Sloboda and meta:Research:Wikipedia clickstream archive indicate that the hatnote is consistently one of the most commonly clicked links on the page - even in months where we see a larger readership, it's still among the most commonly clicked links (for example in March '24, with 162 clickstreams to 9 identified destinations, the hatnote was #3 with 17). This is typically indicative of a navigation issue. Another editor reverted the initial preparatory move, thinking this broke links (it did not) and saying this changes a 'long established' status quo - I don't see an actual rationale there. Just because this grew organically as is - doesn't mean it's not subject to evaluation and adjustment. In addition, similar terms like svoboda and swoboda are not short-circuiting here and are indeed disambiguated, so this change would seem to make things more consistent. Joy (talk) 23:14, 22 May 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. Safari ScribeEdits! Talk! 07:22, 29 May 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. BilledMammal (talk) 07:44, 6 June 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. Safari ScribeEdits! Talk! 10:15, 13 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • (Discuss) – 2024 Slatina protests → Death of Flavius Magraon – This looks more notable, in any case. The article should be centered on the main event and not on the protests that were a consequence of it. The death of a person is also more relevant than seemingly small and unconsequential (beyond the local level) protests. This title format, consistent with other articles, also puts the scope onto the person who was a professional footballer which is something that can be written more about in the article. Super Ψ Dro 23:51, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • (Discuss) – Parachromis managuensis → Jaguar cichlid – So, the last time a name change for this article has been discussed was back in 2007 (see "article title" up above). This article used to be named "Managuense cichlid," but was later changed to the Latin name and current title, Parachromis managuensis, on the basis that it was the least ambiguous epithet for the species. Which is true. Latin names are almost always less ambiguous than vernacular names, but they're almost never as concise or recognizable - for the same reason we have articles named Great white shark and Largemouth bass rather than Carcharodon carcharias and Micropterus salmoides, I'm going to propose that this article be renamed to Jaguar cichlid. For the WP:CRITERIA of recognizability and naturalness, I present the Google Search results for the names listed in the article's lede (in order from most hits to least): * "jaguar cichlid": ~93,700 results * "parachromis managuensis": ~40,900 results * "jaguar guapote": ~9,680 results * "managuense cichlid": ~8,720 results * "guapote tigre": ~8,640 results * "aztec cichlid": ~4,090 results * "managua cichlid": ~1,470 results * "spotted guapote": ~812 results "Jaguar cichlid" is more than twice as prevalent on the web as the Latin name. It's nearly a full order of magnitude more prevalent than the next most popular vernacular name, "jaguar guapote" - and if that's where we draw the line, then names like "managuense cichlid" and "guapote tigre" aren't even in the running. This is supported by Google Trends, which shows that on average, "jaguar cichlid" is searched for 47 times more than "parachromis managuensis" and "managuense cichlid" worldwide. We should name the article accordingly. Simple as. Kodiak Blackjack (talk) • (contribs) 00:06, 13 May 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. BilledMammal (talk) 11:51, 28 May 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. Cremastra (talk) 22:51, 4 June 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. Safari ScribeEdits! Talk! 16:58, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • (Discuss) – Nuseirat refugee camp massacre → Killing of civilians during Nuseirat raid and rescue – The word "massacre" is listed as a non-neutral term at WP:POVNAMING and should not be used unless it's a WP:COMMONNAME, which it isn't in this case. "Killing of civilians" is perfectly neutral (see WP:KILLINGS) and covers the idea of "massacre" but in a neutral way. Two anticipated objections: *While there is currently a discussion to merge this article, I don't see any consensus there. If consensus does develop to merge/delete this article, then an admin is perfectly capable of closing this RM and redirecting this article. But until then, this article must still follow WP:NPOV. *While Israeli and Palestinian officials dispute how many civilians were killed, the fact that at least some civilians (including children) were killed during the raid is a established fact that RS state in their own voice: **"At the Al-Aqsa Martyrs Hospital in the nearby town of Deir al-Balah, the dead and wounded arrived in waves — men, women and children." Associate Press **"Many Palestinians, including children, were killed and injured in the area where the operation took place, with images and footage showing a large numbers of casualties." BBC News **"Video in the aftermath of the raid showed charred bodies scattered across streets in Nuseirat, while Palestinians could be seen gathering the remains of those killed. Bloodied children could also be seen arriving at a local hospital". NBC News Finally, the move target should be "Killing of civilians during X", where X is the name decided for 2024 Nuseirat rescue operation article per WP:CONSISTENT. Currently there seems to be a lot of support for moving that article to "Nuseirat raid and rescue". VR (Please ping on reply) 04:56, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • (Discuss) – Mokai Tramway → Taupo Totara Timber Company Railway – The proposed title makes this article easier to find. Many readers will have heard of the "TTT", the tourist town of Taupo, or Lake Taupo. Few people will be familiar with the sawmilling village of Mokai, which today has only a few houses and a marae. The name also distinguishes the main Putaruru to Mokai line from the bush tramways radiating from Mokai. Many of these tramways were accessible only to selected TTT Railway rolling stock. In contrast, all TTT locomotives including the Mallet and the four-wheeled locos were able to run through to Mokai, where the company had its main mechanical workshop. The proposed new title also distinguishes the TTT Railway from the Kinleith Branch, which covered only part of the route and was built on formation that was largely new. (The original TTT formation north of Tokoroa is still visible in some places). I have a large collection of source material on the railway and the company and I hope to add more info and true primary citations as time permits. I will also propose that a separate page be set up covering the TTT company itself Kbwc56 (talk) 00:09, 26 May 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. Safari ScribeEdits! Talk! 00:45, 2 June 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. Safari ScribeEdits! Talk! 10:59, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • (Discuss) – Zürich → Zurich – Zurich appears to be the name most commonly used in English-language sources, including by the city itself[52], Zurich Airport[53], Swiss Railways[54], airline Swiss[55], and Zurich local transport newtork[56]. I agree that there are some English-language sources that spell it Zürich, but they are either those that consistently prefer localised spelling (Düsseldorf, Łódź, or Hồ Chí Minh City; BBC and Britannica often fall here), or those that follow Wikipedia. Yet, non-umlauted spelling, even if not universal, appears to be the English norm. — kashmīrī TALK 06:35, 3 June 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. Polyamorph (talk) 08:45, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • (Discuss) – 2024 Nuseirat rescue operation → Nuseirat raid and rescue – Most sources are dual referencing this as a raid, attack or assault rather than just as a rescue. Guardian "Israeli attacks in central Gaza killed scores of Palestinians, many of them civilians, on Saturday amid a special forces operation to free four hostages held there, with the death toll sparking international outrage." NYT "Israeli soldiers and special operations police rescued four hostages from Gaza on Saturday amid a heavy air and ground assault",CNN "Israel’s operation to rescue four hostages took weeks of preparation and involved hundreds of personnel, its military said. But the mission began with a trail of destruction in central Gaza and ended in carnage, according to local authorities." Selfstudier (talk) 15:06, 9 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • (Discuss) – September 2022 Armenia–Azerbaijan clashes → September 2022 Azerbaijani attack on Armenia – I have not seen a single reliable source saying that Armenia attacked Azerbaijan. But multiple reliable sources say the opposite. Various sources describe the events as an “invasion”, “offensive”, “attack”, or “assault.” There is consensus that Azerbaijan was the one who initiated the hostilities. Some talk about “Azerbaijan’s Invasion of Armenia”, “Azerbaijan’s Offensive on Armenia”, “Azerbaijan’s Attack on Armenia”, but they all agree on one thing: Azerbaijan was the initiator of the clash, and it was Azerbaijan who attacked. Therefore, the title “Attack of Azerbaijan on Armenia” perfectly reflects the vast majority of reliable sources and is the least ambiguous. I will provide the overwhelming evidence below: * Human Rights Watch:  :“The killings took place during fighting between Armenian and Azerbaijani forces that broke out in mid-September, when Azerbaijan made incursions into Armenia...” * Genocide Watch:  :“Azerbaijani military attacks on Armenian territory show Azerbaijani disregard for Armenian sovereignty.” * Freedom House:  :“Freedom House Condemns Azerbaijani Attacks on Armenia”  :“The Azerbaijani armed forces must immediately cease their deadly attacks on Armenian territory” * Axel Gehring, Ph.D., political scientist and expert in the field of foreign and security policy and researcher at the Institute for Critical Social Analysis of the Rosa Luxemburg Foundation in Berlin:  :“On September 13, regular Azerbaijani troops launched a large-scale attack on Armenian territory. This attack took tensions between the countries to a new level.” * Laurence Broers is a specialist in conflicts in the Transcaucasus, founder of the scientific journal Caucasus Survey:  :"Azerbaijan's recent attack seeks to enforce terms in negotiations with Armenia" “ The recent large-scale cross-border attacks inside Armenia by Azerbaijan...” * Maximilian Hess, Research Fellow for Central Asia at the Foreign Policy Institute, in Foreign Policy magazine:  :“Azerbaijani forces who marched into Armenia continue to occupy part of its territory, in particular heights around the town of Jermuk.” * David L. Phillips, conflict analyst in The National Interest:  :“The United States criticized Azerbaijan's recent attacks on Armenia proper” * European Parliament Resolution:  :“Strongly condemns the latest military aggression by Azerbaijan on September 12, 2022 on the sovereign territory of Armenia”  :“calls on the Azerbaijani authorities, therefore, to immediately withdraw from all parts of the territory of Armenia “ * Wojciech Gorecki, senior researcher at the Department of Turkey, Caucasus and Central Asia:  :“in September 2022 Azerbaijan attacked targets located on Armenian territory.” * The Guardian:  : “This week, with attention focused across the Black Sea in Ukraine, fighting on the border between Azerbaijan and Armenia killed about 100 troops after Azerbaijan shelled a number of towns in Armenia, with both sides accusing each other of “provocations”.” * Der Spiegel:  : “Peace negotiations mediated by the European Union have been at an impasse since Baku also attacked territory in the Republic of Armenia in September 2022.” * TIME:  : “...democratic nation that was recently invaded by its authoritarian neighbor”  : “...but also Armenia, which has been suffering from Azerbaijan's invasion for almost three weeks now.” * BBC:  : “I don’t think anyone doubts that Azerbaijan started this operation on the territory of Armenia. Even Azerbaijani commentators admit this. Armenia is currently weak, has little interest in disrupting the status quo.” * Eurasianet  :"Azerbaijan launches large-scale attacks on Armenia"  :“Azerbaijan launched a large-scale attack on targets in Armenia, an unprecedented expansion of the long-running conflict into Armenian territory.” * Michael Rubin, senior researcher at AIP:  :“Last week, Azerbaijan attacked Armenia proper. (Last week Azerbaijan attacked Armenia directly)” * Paul Stronski is a senior fellow in the Carnegie Russia and Eurasia Programs, specializing in Russia and the South Caucasus:  : “..the fact that Russia is preoccupied, certainly led to what looks like an Azerbaijani offensive at this time”  : “And what we even saw just in the last few days is actually attacks inside and shelling inside cities inside Armenia, not just along the border." * Kapil Komireddy, political columnist for The Telegraph:  : “But so little about Azerbaijan's attack, which goes beyond the disputed territory of Karabakh and targets Armenia proper.” *Seth Franzman, Middle East analyst for The Jerusalem Post , contributor to Defense News, The National Interest and Digest of Middle East Studies:  :“Attacks on Armenia represent dangerous escalation” *Carnegie Europe:  :“Nearly 300 soldiers died in a large-scale Azerbaijani incursion into the territory of Armenia on September 13-14.” Vanezi (talk) 21:23, 5 May 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. BilledMammal (talk) 05:19, 29 May 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. Cremastra (talk) 14:24, 8 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • (Discuss) – Genocide of Indigenous peoples → Genocide of indigenous peoples – "Indigenous" is only a proper name when adopted as conventional for a particular ethnic group, and when applied to the specific groups who have done so. As a general, global adjective it is not and cannot be a proper name (any more than the opposite, "colonial"), so should not be capitalized. See in particular the lead paragraph of MOS:CAPS: WP does not capitalize that which is not capitalized consistently across nearly all independent reliable sources, and "indigenous peoples" is not so capitalized (indeed, it is overwhelmingly lowercase [57][58], except in highly retrictive contexts that refer to specific populations who have adopted the term self-referentially as a name in English). This same situation is true of all such terms such as "native" and "aboriginal". "Aboriginal" is capitalized in reference to autochthonous Australians, and "Native" is capitalized in "Native Americans" in reference to the autochthonous peoples of what is now the US and sometimes (in mostly US usage) all of the Americas. But "native" is not capitalized (by the preponderance of modern reliable sources) in reference to Australians, nor "aboriginal" in reference to Americans, and neither is capitalized in "the native (aboriginal) peoples and languages of Siberia and Central Asia before the Soviet Union", etc. PS: There may be other over-capitalized articles of this sort, but perhaps take them one at a time, since some might pertain more narrowly to groups that have taken on "Indigenous" as a self-referential name/label.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  04:42, 25 May 2024 (UTC); revised 06:03, 29 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • (Discuss) – Allegations of genocide in the 2023 Israeli attack on Gaza → ? – I'm unsure what the new title should be, but I'm sure that this one has an issue. The Israeli attack on Gaza has gone past 2023 into 2024. So, we can't keep the "2023 Israeli attack on Gaza" part. Perhaps we could change it to "Allegations of genocide perpetrated by Israel in the Israel–Hamas war", "Allegations of genocide in Gaza in the Israel–Hamas war", or something different. Note that "2023 Israeli attack on Gaza" just redirects to Israel–Hamas war. Paul Vaurie (talk) 19:49, 3 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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