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WikiProject iconThis page is within the scope of WikiProject Vital Articles, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of vital articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and work together to increase the quality of Wikipedia's essential articles.Vital ArticlesWikipedia:WikiProject Vital ArticlesTemplate:WikiProject Vital ArticlesVital Articles articles
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Level 5 Subpages

People History and geography Society STEM

Introduction

The purpose of this discussion page is to select 50,000 topics for which Wikipedia should have high-quality articles.

Any article currently on this list may be challenged. The discussion is open to the following rules:

Voting count table (>60%)
P = passes
F = fails 		opposing votes
0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
0
supporting votes
 – – – – F F F F F F
1 – – – F F F F F F F
2 – – F F F F F F F F
3 – F F F F F F F F F
4 P P P F F F F F F F
5 P P P P F F F F F F
6 P P P P F F F F F F
7 P P P P P F F F F F
8 P P P P P P F F F F
9 P P P P P P F F F F
  1. Before being closed, a Level 5 proposal must:
    1. Run for at least 15 days; AND
    2. Allow at least 7 days after the most recent vote; AND
    3. Have at least 4 participants.
  2. For a proposal to be implemented on the Level 5 list:
    1. It must have over 60% support (see table); AND
    2. It must have at least 4 support votes !votes.
  3. For proposed additions from August 2024 onwards, the nominator should list (and possibly link to) at least one potential section in the level 5 vital articles list for the article to be added to. Supporters can also help in this regard.

For reference, the following times apply for today:

  • 15 days ago is: 04:54, 23 October 2024 (UTC)
  • 7 days ago is: 04:54, 31 October 2024 (UTC)

The following link represent all current Level 5 Vital articles that are classified as people:

Further information: Wikipedia:Vital articles/Level/5/People/Miscellaneous
Further information: Wikipedia:Vital articles/Level/5/People/Artists, musicians, and composers
Further information: Wikipedia:Vital articles/Level/5/People/Entertainers, directors, producers, and screenwriters
Further information: Wikipedia:Vital articles/Level/5/People/Military personnel, revolutionaries, and activists
Further information: Wikipedia:Vital articles/Level/5/People/Philosophers, historians, political and social scientists
Further information: Wikipedia:Vital articles/Level/5/People/Politicians and leaders
Further information: Wikipedia:Vital articles/Level/5/People/Religious figures
Further information: Wikipedia:Vital articles/Level/5/People/Scientists, inventors, and mathematicians
Further information: Wikipedia:Vital articles/Level/5/People/Sports figures
Further information: Wikipedia:Vital articles/Level/5/People/Writers and journalists

Add either Thomas A. Dorsey, The Dixie Hummingbirds, or Blind Willie Johnson

I think we can squeeze one more gospel act on here, but unfortunately I’m not sure which of these three I want to add.

My first option was Thomas A Dorsey. I have frequently heard of him referred to as the Father of Gospel Music. Our article claims that he’s written 3,000 songs, including “Peace in the Valley” and “Take My Hand, Precious Lord”, the latter being the favorite song of Martin Luther King Jr.  4. Note however that he is rated low-importance on the WikiProject Christian music. (Although he’s also conversely rated as Top-importance on the WikiProject African diaspora.)

My next option is The Dixie Hummingbirds. Rated high-importance on the WikiProject Christian music, they are probably the most well-known jubilee quartet. They have inspired Jackie Wilson  5 and James Brown  4, backed Paul Simon  5 in his song “Loves Me Like a Rock”, and their rendition of Amazing Grace  5 is in the Grammy Hall of Fame.

My third option is Blind Willie Johnson. So, he’s a bit of a curveball; I know to a lot of people, Johnson is a blues musician first and foremost. I’m advocating him because unlike his fellow Texan Blind Lemon Jefferson, all of Johnson’s records had a religious bent to them. His songs include “In My Time of Dying”, “It’s Nobody’s Fault but Mine”, “John the Revelator”, and the one that went to outer space on the Voyager “Dark Was the Night, Cold Was the Ground”.

Support Thomas A. Dorsey
  1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 07:18, 4 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Iostn (talk) 21:06, 8 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Interstellarity (talk) 12:51, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support The Dixie Hummingbirds
Support Blind Willie Johnson (please indicate if you want to put him in the R&B section)
  1. Probably under R&B as he does seems to be more frequently described as such Iostn (talk) 21:06, 8 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Per nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 05:30, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Interstellarity (talk) 12:51, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

Add The Specials

Leading drivers of second-wave ska. Their label 2 Tone Records is the namesake of the Two-tone music genre.

Support
  1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 21:53, 5 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Interstellarity (talk) 13:01, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. 49p (talk) 05:25, 10 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

Add Allen Klein

An extremely controversial manager. Associated with Sam Cooke  5, The Beatles  3, and The Rolling Stones  4.

Support
  1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 23:40, 5 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Interstellarity (talk) 13:01, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

Add Norman Granz

Founder of Verve Records and manager of Ella Fitzgerald  4.

Support
  1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 11:10, 7 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Interstellarity (talk) 13:01, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

Add Sam Gilliam

He seems somewhat important. I am not an art scholar.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 21:57, 7 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 21:57, 7 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
  1. 3 interwikis suggest that he was not influential. The Blue Rider 11:09, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Discuss

Add Yigal Amir

Assassinated Yitzhak Rabin  5, who had signed the Oslo Accords in an attempt to end the Israel-Palestine conflict, and is arguably responsible for derailing the peace process and preventing a two-state solution as a result.

Support
  1. As nom. Iostn (talk) 00:29, 9 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Per nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 22:41, 3 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. SailorGardevoir (talk) 18:37, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. Interstellarity (talk) 13:01, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

Imbalance in martial arts?

There are currently 15 articles on mixed martial arts, a fairly recent phenomenon. By contrast, there's just one practitioner of taekwondo, four of judo and five of karate, even though taekwondo and judo are in the Olympics and MMA is not. Seems off to me pbp 21:21, 21 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think it sort of makes sense. Though more recent, it is now a global cultural phenomenon and MMA celebs have more impact and presence on our society. I don't even follow MMA and I can name at least 5 fighters. Gun to my head, I couldn't name a single judoka for example. By your logic, we should be listing more wrestlers or archers or even pentathletes (all events at the Olympics as well) since these are all ancient sports. But clearly that wouldn't make sense. Aurangzebra (talk) 20:25, 22 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I don't exactly watch MMA regularly. I've caught some fight highlights very occasionally. I recognize the names of 12/15 MMA fighters on the list. I recognize the names of 1/4 judokas, 0/5 karate/kickboxing, 0/1 taekwondo, 0/1 aikido, 0/1 muay thai, 0/1 capoeira, 1/5 sumo wrestlers, and 1/9 wrestlers. Even boxing I recognize only 9/43. starship.paint (RUN) 07:14, 23 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
User:Purplebackpack89, You have to keep in mind that a lot of famous martial artistst are listed in other categories (e.g. Chuck Norris, Steven Seagal, Jackie Chan and Jet Li). It is not clear to me that MMA fighters really have more slots than traditional discipline specialists.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 22:33, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
They do if you think about the people who are listed for participating in and winning competitions rather than making movies pbp 14:02, 26 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Remove some English monarches

I think we have every English monarch on here. I think we can get rid of some of them.

Remove Ælfweard of Wessex

PASSED
7-0 Aurangzebra (talk) 07:00, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Guy was only king for a month.

Support
  1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 05:30, 31 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 06:28, 31 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. pbp 12:54, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. Iostn (talk) 18:01, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  5. Seems to have maybe been part of a succession crisis, but it was short-lived. He died before he could do anything. QuicoleJR (talk) 17:56, 14 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  6. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 21:48, 14 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  7. TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 21:37, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Remove Edmund Ironside  5

Was only king for seven months.

Support
  1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 05:15, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
  1. This one seems very important. He started a rebellion against his father, ultimately becoming king, and became a major figure in the war against the Vikings. QuicoleJR (talk) 18:11, 14 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. per above Makkool (talk) 15:00, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Discuss

Remove Harold Godwinson  5

FAILED
Not removed 1-4. Makkool (talk) 17:23, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Only king for nine months.

Support
  1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 06:16, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
  1. I think his involvement in the Battle of Hastings is enough to retain him. pbp 12:54, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Strong oppose He represents the losing side of the Battle of Hastings  4 and the Norman Conquest  4, his reign marks the end of the Anglo-Saxon era, which is often considered the biggest turning point in English history, in terms of for example, Franco-Norman cultural influence, the rise of feudalism and the fact that line of heriditary succession of the British monarchy today can be traced back directly to the Norman Conquest. Iostn (talk) 18:01, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Per Iostn. QuicoleJR (talk) 17:57, 14 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. His success over Harald III alone is probably enough to make him vital, not to mention his involvement in Hastings. Idiosincrático (talk) 07:00, 2 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Discuss
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Remove Edgar Ætheling

PASSED
4-1 Aurangzebra (talk) 07:01, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Only king for two months.

Support
  1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 06:34, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Really it's no months. Article states, "Elected King of England by the Witan in 1066 but never crowned." pbp 12:54, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. You can only do so much in two months. The Blue Rider 10:53, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 21:38, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
  1. Not as vital as Harold II, but still important as a figure of English resistance to the Norman Conquest  4. Iostn (talk) 18:01, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Discuss
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Move Edward V of England to Miscellaneous

FAILED
Not moved 1-0, but swapped with Princes in the Tower. Makkool (talk) 19:42, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Besides only reigning for only two months, he also in the same position as Caesarion and Alexander IV of Macedon, which is "not doing anything beyond being a potential threat (in this case to Richard III) once he's an adult". However, I do think the whole Princes in the Tower mystery is enough to keep him on here. Therefore, I am instead requesting to move him to the Miscellaneous page, preferably under victims (although since we have no idea what actually happened to him, I'm fine putting him under socialites).

Move
  1. Under victims. SailorGardevoir (talk) 08:01, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Remove
  1. @SailorGardevoir: This guy is really only notable for the Princes in the Tower  5 mystery along with his brother, but that mystery is very important. Therefore, I propose we swap Edward V with Princes in the Tower. QuicoleJR (talk) 17:31, 27 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I’m fine with a swap. SailorGardevoir (talk) 18:14, 27 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Support swap. Victims would be a good place for Princes in the Tower as well. Makkool (talk) 15:00, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Support swap. Interstellarity (talk) 13:01, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Remove Caesarion and Alexander IV of Macedon

PASSED
Removed 4-0. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 02:18, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

I don't have any problems have kid rulers here, but other than being the heirs of Julius Caesar and Alexander the Great (and therefore potential threats to Augustus and the Diadochi), I'm not sure they even did anything.

Support
  1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 09:23, 31 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 13:53, 31 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Makkool (talk) 15:05, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. Interstellarity (talk) 13:01, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

FWIW, Caesarion was the successor to Cleopatra in Egypt, not to Julius Caesar in Rome pbp 16:10, 2 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Swap C. R. Swart for D. F. Malan

C.R. Swart was the first State President of South Africa after South Africa became a Republic - which was at the time, only a ceremonial position, as the actual head of government was the Prime Minister, which is highlighted by him also being the last Governor-General (represenative to the British crown), also a ceremonial position. D. F. Malan, on the other hand, is responsible for being the first prime minister to implement Apartheid  4 (under that name, as opposed to the older forms of segregation present in South Africa) and also marked the start of over 40 years of continuous National Party rule. The only caveat is that he is less well-known for his role in constructing apartheid than his successor, Hendrik Verwoerd  5.

Support
  1. As nom. Iostn (talk) 18:26, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. per nom EleniXDD※Talk 05:37, 13 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. SailorGardevoir (talk) 03:39, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. Interstellarity (talk) 13:01, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

Swap Leopoldo Galtieri for Javier Milei

There's little of note in Galtieri's biography besides the Falklands War, which is already a vital article, so there would be overlap. Milei, the current president of Argentina, got international notice as part of the recent international trend of right-wing leaders. Cambalachero (talk) 16:54, 3 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. As nominator Cambalachero (talk) 16:54, 3 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
  1. We now subject world leaders to the "head of lettuce" test. Revisit this fall when he has served a year. pbp 17:06, 3 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Discuss

Move the following people to socialites

I'm seeing a lot of people who are in the politicians and leaders page who were "merely" the spouses/lovers of actual politicians/leaders. Now, some of them did in fact had political power/clout despite not being in an actual position (Theodora, Jiang Qing, Eleanor Roosevelt, etc.). Others… not so much. Since we have the socialites section in miscellaneous, I think the following figures should be moved there:

  1. Agnès Sorel (already moved)
  2. Pocahontas
  3. Martha Washington
  4. Mumtaz Mahal
  5. Marie Antoinette
  6. Anne Boleyn
  7. Catherine of Aragon
  8. Sophia of Hanover
  9. Dolley Madison
  10. Joséphine de Beauharnais
  11. Marie Louise, Duchess of Parma
  12. Prince Albert of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha
  13. Queen Elizabeth The Queen Mother
  14. Alexandra Feodorovna (Alix of Hesse)
  15. Menen Asfaw
  16. Ruth Williams Khama
  17. Michelle Obama
  18. Kim Jong-nam
  19. Queen Rania of Jordan
  20. Asma al-Assad
  21. Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh
Support
  1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 06:38, 5 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
  1. First ladies of countries and royals should remain in leaders. Makkool (talk) 17:08, 5 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Per Makkool. Mistresses of French monarchs makes sense but First Ladies, consorts and princes less so. Also not all First Ladies on the VA5 list are slated for move. Finally, what is the definition of socialite here? It's being used to apply to people who were alive before the term was commonly used pbp 05:46, 6 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    That's a good question. I'm largely basing it off the vibes I get looking at that section, which other than Sid Vicious's girlfriend who I just moved to Other I feel like everyone fits. SailorGardevoir (talk) 09:22, 6 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I'm still unclear how you're defining socialites, especially for people from before the Victorian or Edwardian eras when socialite wasn't even a word. I suppose Pocahontas could qualify for getting promenaded around London, but what about her life in Virginia? pbp 00:17, 7 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    My definition of socialite is “rich person”. SailorGardevoir (talk) 02:41, 7 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I think there's more going on than just Wealth. There are rich people who are businessmen, leaders, etc. pbp 12:10, 7 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Discuss

@User:Makkool and @User:Purplebackpack89: I think I'm just going to withdraw this. I have actually long since came around to the idea that only the mistresses/favorites should be moved to the socialites section. SailorGardevoir (talk) 05:13, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Move Françoise d'Aubigné, Marquise de Maintenon and Madame de Pompadour to socialites

Primarily notable for being court mistresses pbp 13:29, 6 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. pbp 13:29, 6 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. I didn't nominate them because I felt like they actually had an influence on their lovers' policies, but since they weren't even queen consorts, sure. SailorGardevoir (talk) 20:36, 6 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

Move George Villiers, 1st Duke of Buckingham to socialites

Related to the above, here's the favorite/possible lover of King James. Again, didn't nominate him on the belief he had political clout, but if we're going to place the favorites/lovers in the socialites section, it should probably include him.

Support
  1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 20:36, 6 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

Move Grigory Potemkin to socialites

Only nominating him for consistency since he was Catherine's lover. As I mentioned, I only wanted to move the people who I felt were apolitical, which is certainly not the case for this guy.

Support
Oppose
  1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 20:36, 6 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Discuss

Move Yang Guifei to leaders

Since there appears to be a consensus that monarch consorts should be listed under leaders, she should probably be move to that page.

Support
  1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 20:36, 6 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

Add Nicholas Miklouho-Maclay

I was surprised to learn that Nicholas Miklouho-Maclay's biography wasn't already included as a vital article. This 19th century Russian-born academic studied many fields and became a name in biological research as early as age 23; however, he later became known more as an explorer and anthropologist. Miklouho-Maclay's exploration and study of the North-Eastern New Guinea Coast (now the "Maclay Coast") was among the first and most famous of the region. The "man from the moon" was among the first Europeans to contact the Papuan people and learn several local languages; he developed trust and became accustomed to unseen rituals and culture. His work created a foundation for contemporary Oceanic anthropology which, on the island of New Guinea, is still not completely researched. His Wikipedia article doesn't quite do justice to his work which expands far beyond the scope of his famous stay in New Guinea; his work is highly regarded in the Australian scholarly community and he has several commemorative shrines across the region. I'd like think this article fits in the miscellaneous sub-page under 'explorers', but I'm open to other suggestions. Idiosincrático (talk) 00:40, 8 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. As nominator. Idiosincrático (talk) 00:40, 8 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. As an anthropology major I am ashamed I had never heard of him, but he seems very important. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 05:23, 21 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. SailorGardevoir (talk) 06:16, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. Interstellarity (talk) 13:01, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

Military personnel alterations

Move Julius Maada Bio  5 to politicians and leaders

PASSED
Moved 4-0 Makkool (talk) 20:08, 26 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Briefly led a transitional military government in 1996, before returning to (electoral) politics and becoming elected president in 2018. Definitely only really seems notable as a politician.

Support
  1. Nom. Iostn (talk) 20:16, 9 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. SailorGardevoir (talk) 00:18, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Per nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 23:13, 27 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. pbp 15:08, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Remove Sebhat Ephrem

PASSED
Removed 5-0 Makkool (talk) 20:08, 26 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

If he was vital, then he should be under politicians. But even so, there's very little here to assert vitality.

Support
  1. Nom. Iostn (talk) 20:16, 9 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. per above. starship.paint (RUN) 08:29, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. SailorGardevoir (talk) 03:40, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. Per nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 23:13, 27 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  5. pbp 15:08, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Remove Fritz Loots

PASSED
Removed 5-0 Makkool (talk) 20:08, 26 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Presumably included for founding the South African Special Forces - which isn't a VA. There's nothing else here that indicates vitality.

Support
  1. Nom. Iostn (talk) 20:16, 9 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. per above. starship.paint (RUN) 08:29, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. SailorGardevoir (talk) 03:41, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. Per nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 23:13, 27 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  5. pbp 15:08, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Move Samora Machel  5 to politicians and leader

PASSED
Moved 5-0 Makkool (talk) 20:08, 26 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

This entry was the original reason I made these proposals - the founding president of Mozambique, who served for over ten years, is listed here for his involvement in the Mozambican War of Independence  5. It seems fairly obvious he is much more well-known as a national "founding father" than a soldier or general.

Support
  1. Nom. Iostn (talk) 20:16, 9 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. per above. starship.paint (RUN) 08:29, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. SailorGardevoir (talk) 03:41, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. Per nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 23:13, 27 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  5. pbp 15:08, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Move Joseph Saidu Momoh  5 to politicians and leaders

PASSED
Moved 4-0 Makkool (talk) 20:08, 26 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

President of Sierra Leone for six and a half years.

Support
  1. Nom. Iostn (talk) 20:16, 9 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. per above. starship.paint (RUN) 08:29, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. SailorGardevoir (talk) 03:42, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. Per nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 23:13, 27 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss
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Move Valentine Strasser  5 to politicians and leaders

PASSED
Moved 4-0 Makkool (talk) 20:08, 26 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Head of state of Sierra Leone for four years.

Support
  1. Nom. Iostn (talk) 20:16, 9 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. per above. starship.paint (RUN) 08:29, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. SailorGardevoir (talk) 03:42, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. Per nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 23:13, 27 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss
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Move Pedro Eugenio Aramburu  5 to politicians and leaders

De facto president of Argentina for 2.5 years, and only really known for that.

Support
  1. Nom. Iostn (talk) 20:16, 9 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. SailorGardevoir (talk) 00:19, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Per nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 23:13, 27 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

Move Ayub Khan (Emir of Afghanistan)  5 to politicians and leaders

Emir of Afghanistan, not much else to say. He is well-known for leading Afghanistan's troops during the Second Anglo-Afghan War at the same time, but I don't think that supersedes him being Emir.

Support
  1. Nom. Iostn (talk) 20:16, 9 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. SailorGardevoir (talk) 00:19, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Per nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 23:13, 27 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

Move Prabowo Subianto  5 to politicians and leaders

PASSED
Moved 4-0 Makkool (talk) 20:08, 26 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Has been one of Indonesia's most prominent politicians since the late 2000s, and is currently president-elect.

Support
  1. Nom. Iostn (talk) 20:16, 9 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. per above. starship.paint (RUN) 08:29, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. SailorGardevoir (talk) 03:42, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. Per nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 23:13, 27 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss
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Add Philippe Leclerc de Hauteclocque  5

One of the most important military leaders of the French resistance

Support
  1. Nom. Iostn (talk) 20:16, 9 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. SailorGardevoir (talk) 00:20, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Per nominator. We should add the French Resistance as well Tabu Makiadi (talk) 23:13, 27 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. Makkool (talk) 20:20, 26 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

General comment

These proposals are testament to what I've been saying for awhile: it's silly to have politicians, military, activists and jurists in four different pots. The lines between the four are just too blurred. pbp

Addtional removals proposed by PBP89

Remove Sam Bockarie and Issa Sesay

Only five interwikis for Bockarie and only four for Sesay. We have five other VA5 articles to represent the coups and unrest in Sierra Leone pbp 15:08, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. pbp 15:08, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Interstellarity (talk) 13:01, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. SailorGardevoir (talk) 19:42, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discussion

Remove Jan Breytenbach

Relatively minor/obscure figure in South African special forces who happened to write a book. Only six interwikis pbp 15:08, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. pbp 15:08, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Interstellarity (talk) 13:01, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. SailorGardevoir (talk) 19:42, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discussion

Remove James Kabarebe

Only five interwikis

Support
  1. pbp 15:08, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Interstellarity (talk) 13:01, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. SailorGardevoir (talk) 19:42, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discussion

Remove Ras Mengesha Yohannes

Only five interwikis and only 800-odd page views a month. We already have Mikael of Wollo from the Mahdist War

Support
  1. pbp 15:08, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Interstellarity (talk) 13:01, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. SailorGardevoir (talk) 19:42, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discussion

Remove Benjamin Yeaten

Not one interwiki link. Not one. pbp 15:08, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. pbp 15:08, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Interstellarity (talk) 13:01, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. SailorGardevoir (talk) 19:42, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discussion

Remove Samora Yunis

Just one interwiki link pbp 15:08, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. pbp 15:08, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Interstellarity (talk) 13:01, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. SailorGardevoir (talk) 19:42, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discussion

Add Muqtada al-Sadr  5 to Lv 5. activists

For awhile during the Iraq War era, seemed like you'd turn on the radio or TV and you'd always hear what "forces loyal to radical Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr were up to. 44 interwikis. Could also be added under military or religion pbp 21:26, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. pbp 21:26, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. I was going to say he should be under politicians, but it seems he never held any office, surprisingly. Iostn (talk) 21:19, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. SailorGardevoir (talk) 06:19, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. Makkool (talk) 20:20, 26 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discussion

Move the troubadours, trouvères, and Minnesägner to musicians

I feel like these guys should be listed under musicians. Unlike the Greek lyricists like Sappho, we do have some of the original music that their poems were set to. (Admittedly, it's a small "some"—only about 12% according to the troubadours page—and I don't think the people I'm about to request to be moved are among those whose musical compositions survived.) However, I don't know where exactly they should be placed. I personally lean towards putting them under Western art music (either under Medieval and Renaissance composers, or even a new section like how ragtime or soundtrack composers have their own list) but I'm fine putting them in the songwriters section with Carl Michael Bellman and Stephen Foster.

Here are the people I want to move, plus two more that I'm just throwing in because they're either a troubadour, trouvère, or a Minnesinger:

  1. Bertran de Born  5 (troubadour)
  2. Chrétien de Troyes  4 (trovère; personally his chivalric romances firmly keeps him in the writers page)
  3. Arnaut Daniel  5 (troubadour)
  4. Wolfram von Eschenbach  5 (Minnesigner; he seems more important as a poet in general)
  5. Rutebeuf  5 (trovère)
  6. Tannhäuser  5 (Minnesigner)
  7. William IX, Duke of Aquitaine  5 (troubadour)
Under Western art music (Medieval and Renaissance)
  1. Support (except for Chrétien and von Eschenbach). SailorGardevoir (talk) 02:40, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Support (except for Chrétien and von Eschenbach). Makkool (talk) 11:05, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Per nominator, same exceptions. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 22:43, 3 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Under Western art music (new section)
Under songwriters
Keep under poets
Discuss
  1. Chretien is Level 4, so moving him should be decided on the Level 4 talk page. Makkool (talk) 11:05, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Add Anton Pannekoek

Managed to be a major figure both in astronomy and Marxist theory, I think he could go in either section in terms of position,

Support
  1. As nom. Iostn (talk) 21:24, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. --Thi (talk) 13:40, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. SailorGardevoir (talk) 06:20, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. Support addition to astronomy section. Going by Google Scholar results, out of 11,200 total results, he is referenced in relation to astronomy 7,740 times, while he is referenced in relation to Marxism 1,270 times. His influence on astronomy is a lot greater than his influence on Marxism, what with his ideas on council communism being a lot more niche compared to other tendencies. --Grnrchst (talk) 12:24, 22 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

Remove Leochares

Page's pretty bare.

Support
  1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 04:46, 28 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 16:43, 30 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 01:49, 1 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
  1. @SailorGardevoir, Makkool, and Starship.paint: While I will admit that stubs are typically less vital, there are exceptions to that, and this sculptor is one. He worked on the Mausoleum at Halicarnassus  5, he created the Diana of Versailles (should probably be vital judging by its article), and he made several other popular sculptures. He is therefore vital enough to make the list, and you make a better argument for improving his article than removing it from the list. QuicoleJR (talk) 13:50, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @QuicoleJR: - I'm not convinced that there is indeed enough information on him out there to make a comprehensive biography rather than a stub. starship.paint (RUN) 14:08, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    There are some decent results on Google Books and Google Scholar for anyone with the time and resources needed. A bad Brittanica article should not be the deciding factor for someone's vitality. Just because we don't have much in our article or Brittanica's doesn't mean he didn't have lasting importance. QuicoleJR (talk) 14:17, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @QuicoleJR: the onus is on you to prove with links that there is detailed coverage of him, simply asserting is not good enough. starship.paint (RUN) 14:19, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Discuss
  • Moving discussion here for ease of reading. I'll see if I can find some links in a few minutes. QuicoleJR (talk) 14:21, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Although, I will just say that I think that the person is vital even without finding extra sources for expanding the article. He makes valid claims to vitality, and that should be enough. I don't see how article size factors in to it, and there are plenty of better targets for removal. QuicoleJR (talk) 14:23, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    It is my personal opinion that since the vital article project is intended to establish important articles that should be improved, if there are articles on a person/object that cannot be improved to a high quality because there is simply not enough information about the person/object out there, then we should not list them as vital. You would probably disagree. starship.paint (RUN) 15:39, 8 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I think your opinion is valid. I am willing to retract my Oppose for now, since I have other things I care more about. However, I will put this on my to-do list and will propose adding it back to the list if I am able to destub it. Does this work for you? QuicoleJR (talk) 15:52, 8 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @QuicoleJR: - what I would be looking for is for someone, anyone to prove that there's enough information out there to satisfy FA requirements (it does not require that the article be updated). starship.paint (RUN) 16:11, 8 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Remove Callicrates and Ictinus

PASSED
Removed 4-1. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 02:29, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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I don't like the argument of limiting vital status on an article because we already made another article vital, especially when the other article is a level 4 or higher, but for the architects of the Parthenon  4… yeah just having the temple is enough. More importantly their articles are pretty bare, even in different languages.

Support
  1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 05:01, 28 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 16:43, 30 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 01:49, 1 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. Support Callicrates per nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 13:43, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
  1. Oppose Ictinus. The article points to a few other large projects he was involved with, as well as cultural influence in the form of a contemporary play and a later painting. Just because it is a stub does not mean it is not vital. QuicoleJR (talk) 13:43, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @SailorGardevoir, Starship.paint, and Makkool: Pinging so that you can consider my argument for keeping Ictinus. QuicoleJR (talk) 13:44, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @QuicoleJR: - not convinced. In 1911 Encyclopædia Britannica wrote that we know little about him. In 2024 quite the same, really. starship.paint (RUN) 14:01, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I'm sorry, but this project is ostensibly about bringing certain articles to featured status. If there are no signs that an article is ever going to escape stub-status, then there's no reason for it to be here. SailorGardevoir (talk) 18:30, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Discuss
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Remove Tanburi Büyük Osman Bey

PASSED
Removed 4-0. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 02:31, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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This guy has no article on Turkish Wikipedia. In fact, this guy doesn't have an article on ANY Wikipedia besides ours. Which is a shame, because his article does suggests that he is somewhat vital.

Support
  1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 06:29, 29 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 16:43, 30 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. If you think the article suggests that he is vital, then don't vote to remove him. Article quality is not the deciding factor. That said, I do not see a good enough claim to vitality to keep him on the list, and the type of music he makes is not vital. QuicoleJR (talk) 14:35, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. Interstellarity (talk) 13:01, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss
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Add Smokey Robinson

For once, I’m going to make an addition proposal. We have The Miracles  5 on here, but this is definitely a case of a member being vital in their own right. Not only was he the main songwriter and producer for the group (who were called Smokey Robinson and the Miracles from 1965 to 1972), he was also the main songwriter and producer for The Temptations  5, the vice president of Motown, and he received his Hollywood Walk of Fame  5 star and Rock and Roll Hall of Fame  5 induction before the rest of the group.

Support
  1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 02:17, 30 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Interstellarity (talk) 13:01, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

Add Jeanine Basinger

WITHDRAWN
"Belived the hype" in the article, and overestimated her vitality. I'll propose some more known film scholars later. Makkool (talk) 11:30, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Her article says that she "has been described as 'one of the most important film scholars alive today.'" and that "She was a pioneer of taking Hollywood film seriously as a subject of academic study".

Support
  1. As nom. Makkool (talk) 17:28, 1 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
  1. One single interwiki usually isn't a great sign. Kevinishere15 (talk) 18:23, 1 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Discuss
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Linguists cleanup

As it stands the subsection for linguists seems to be a mess, with both stubs on some pretty obscure people presumably to pad out to the former subsection quota and yet also with some pretty surprising omissions in spite of that.

Remove Daniel Kane (linguist)

PASSED
Removed 4-0 Makkool (talk) 12:06, 28 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Notable for studying Jurchen and Khitan, both extinct languages by his lifetime and neither of which are VA. That isn't inherently a "non-vital" activity but there doesn't seem to be much beyond that and pageviews are also low.

Support
  1. As nom. Iostn (talk) 22:56, 5 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 18:44, 6 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. per above. starship.paint (RUN) 10:16, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 18:33, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss
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Remove Richard S. Kayne

PASSED
Removed 4-0 Makkool (talk) 12:06, 28 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Stub, presumably listed for proposing a syntax theory that also isn't a VA.

Support
  1. As nom. Iostn (talk) 22:56, 5 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 18:44, 6 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. per above. starship.paint (RUN) 10:16, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 18:33, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss
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Remove Paul Kiparsky

PASSED
Removed 4-0 Makkool (talk) 12:06, 28 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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More niche contributions.

Support
  1. As nom. Iostn (talk) 22:56, 5 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 18:44, 6 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. per above. starship.paint (RUN) 10:16, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 18:33, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss
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Remove Boris Kolker

PASSED
Removed 4-0 Makkool (talk) 12:06, 28 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Random obscure Esperanto figure.

Support
  1. As nom. Iostn (talk) 22:56, 5 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 18:44, 6 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. per above. Not much in him even in Esperanto. starship.paint (RUN) 10:16, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 18:33, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss
  1. High amount of interwikis (31) compared to all the others. Kevinishere15 (talk) 01:06, 6 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    There is literally nothing else to suggest vitality though, it's also a stub in both Esperanto and Russian and he is only at 60 pageviews in the past month. If I had to guess, the article was only created in a high number of languages due to the large number of polyglots in the Esperanto community. Iostn (talk) 01:49, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Remove Angelika Kratzer

PASSED
Removed 4-0 Makkool (talk) 12:06, 28 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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More niche contributions.

Support
  1. As nom. Iostn (talk) 22:56, 5 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 18:44, 6 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. per above. starship.paint (RUN) 10:16, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 18:33, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss
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Remove Alec Marantz

PASSED
Removed 4-0 Makkool (talk) 12:06, 28 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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More niche contributions.

Support
  1. As nom. Iostn (talk) 22:56, 5 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 18:44, 6 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. per above. starship.paint (RUN) 10:16, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 18:33, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss
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Remove David Nash (linguist)

PASSED
Removed 4-0. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 02:33, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Aboriginal Australian linguistics expert, but not much beyond that.

Support
  1. As nom. Iostn (talk) 22:56, 5 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 18:44, 6 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. SailorGardevoir (talk) 18:33, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. Interstellarity (talk) 13:01, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss
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Remove Jerzy Rubach

PASSED
Removed 4-0 Makkool (talk) 12:06, 28 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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More niche contributions.

Support
  1. As nom. Iostn (talk) 22:56, 5 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 18:44, 6 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. per above. starship.paint (RUN) 10:16, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 18:33, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss
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Remove Albert Sechehaye

PASSED
Removed 4-0 Makkool (talk) 12:06, 28 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Seems to be most well-known for editing a compilation of lectures notes from someone much more important.

Support
  1. As nom. Iostn (talk) 22:56, 5 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 18:44, 6 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. per above. starship.paint (RUN) 10:16, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 18:33, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss
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Remove Alfredo Trombetti

PASSED
Removed 4-0 Makkool (talk) 12:06, 28 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Random obscure advocate of the theory of monogenesis.

Support
  1. As nom. Iostn (talk) 22:56, 5 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 18:44, 6 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. per above. starship.paint (RUN) 10:16, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 18:33, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss
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Add John McWhorter  5

PASSED
Added 4-0 Makkool (talk) 20:01, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Among the most publically prominent linguists today, even if that extends into other areas in his case.

Support
  1. As nom. Iostn (talk) 22:56, 5 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 18:44, 6 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. SailorGardevoir (talk) 18:33, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. Interstellarity (talk) 13:01, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss
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Add Alexander Vovin  5

PASSED
Added 4-0 Makkool (talk) 20:01, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Maybe one of the most important 21st century historical linguists.

Support
  1. As nom. Iostn (talk) 22:56, 5 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 18:44, 6 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. SailorGardevoir (talk) 18:33, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. Interstellarity (talk) 13:01, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss
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Move Mikael Agricola  5 to linguists

He is more a vital to the encyclopedia as the founder of Finnish literary language, than as one of many Protestant reformators in Kingdom of Sweden. Makkool (talk) 18:47, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. As nom. Makkool (talk) 18:47, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. SailorGardevoir (talk) 00:23, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Iostn (talk) 16:57, 26 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

Five politicians from the Maldives?

The Maldives are a teeny-tiny country, isn't five leader a bit much? Granted, some served as Monarch, president or Prime Minister for quite awhile, but still, FIVE? pbp 21:47, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Remove Abdul Majeed Didi

Stub article with only six interwikis pbp 21:47, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. pbp 21:47, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. SailorGardevoir (talk) 00:24, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Interstellarity (talk) 13:01, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. Makkool (talk) 07:10, 30 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
  1. Per Kevinishere15. QuicoleJR (talk) 18:20, 7 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Discuss

"Didi is recognized a reformer and has been described as 'the father of the modern Maldives' ". Kevinishere15 (talk) 00:28, 8 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Remove Mohamed Amin Didi

Ruled a tiny country for less than a year

Support
  1. pbp 21:47, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. SailorGardevoir (talk) 00:24, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Does not seem important enough. QuicoleJR (talk) 21:50, 15 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. Interstellarity (talk) 13:01, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

Add Steve Albini

Well-known producer known for producing albums from Pixies (band)  5, Fugazi  5, Nirvana (band)  4, PJ Harvey  5, etc. He recently passed away (a couple hours from this message) but I was surprised to know he wasn't on this list yet despite his contributions. 49p (talk) 19:35, 8 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. 49p (talk) 19:37, 8 May 2024 (UTC), per nom[reply]
  2. SailorGardevoir (talk) 00:25, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Interstellarity (talk) 13:01, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

English football adjustments

Swap Gary Lineker  5 for Jimmy Greaves

Greaves is the top scorer in the history of English top-tier football, he was apart of England's 66' FIFA World Cup triumph and he his often regarded as one of (if not the best) English domestic player during the 20th Century. Whilst Lineker's career is outstanding, it is a shoulder below that of Greaves' legacy; and if not Greaves, many more modern careers have since surpassed Lineker's. It could be argued that Harry Kane (England's top scorer), Manual Neuer (his generation's greatest keeper), Modrić /Benzema /Iniesta /Kaka or Suárez, all deserve places ahead of Lineker, and the list goes on... Idiosincrático (talk) 22:04, 9 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. As nominator Idiosincrático (talk) 22:04, 9 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Per nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 23:16, 27 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Interstellarity (talk) 13:01, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

Swap Malcolm Allison for Herbert Chapman

PASSED
Swapped 4-0. Phikia (talk) 08:18, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Chapman was one of the most revolutionary English managers during the early 20th century and I was surprised he wasn't already included. He is mostly responsible in England for floodlights at football matches, shirt numbers, physiotherapists in player management and several other traditions and practices. His tenure at both Huddersfield and Arsenal is regarded as one of the finest periods in the history of each club. Chapman's Arsenal team from the early 1930s is still revered as one of the greatest in English football history. Whereas for Allison, I really couldn't tell you much about him, mostly because I simply don't know him; but it is easy to see how Chapman's legacy as a manager dwarfs that of Allisons. Idiosincrático (talk) 07:53, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. As nominator Idiosincrático (talk) 07:53, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Per nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 23:16, 27 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. per nom. Phikia (talk) 04:42, 29 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. Interstellarity (talk) 13:01, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Add Hassan al-Banna

Founder of the Muslim Brotherhood  5. His ideas shaped the modern discourse on the intersection of Islam and politics.

Support
  1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 15:34, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. SailorGardevoir (talk) 00:26, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Interstellarity (talk) 13:01, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

Move Meir Kahane

Usually I would just do a bold move, but I have no idea where to put him. All I know is I don't feel like his current position (under religious figures) is the best place to put him. Yes, his Zionism was on the religious side and he was an ordained rabbi, but his beliefs at its very core was ultranationalist. Now I personally am in favor of putting him under rebels, but he was elected, and we have been moving those type of guys to politicians. I also get the rationale of placing him under terrorists.

To politicians
  1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 00:14, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Per nom. Makkool (talk) 15:42, 17 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
To rebels
To terrorists
  1. Assuming we even keep terrorists as a subsection (which is inherently controversial and contested), as he is mentioned within the first paragraph alone as having been convicted on terrorism charges, and has an entire section entitled "terrorism and convictions". His term in the Knesset was a pretty small part of his overall career and during that time he arguably lacked institutional influence that others would normally have as he was boycotted by all other members. Iostn (talk) 21:42, 17 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep under religious figures
Discuss

Add Talha ibn 'Ubayd Allah and Sa'id ibn Zayd

To make up for my recent requests, let me advocate for the addition of these guys. There are the only people who were a part of the ten to whom Paradise was promised who are not on here. In comparison (which is admittedly imperfect since the whole ten list is strictly a Sunni thing), we have all twelve Apostles on here, plus Matthais.

Support
  1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 10:39, 14 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Per nom. Makkool (talk) 15:42, 17 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Interstellarity (talk) 13:01, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

Move Ch'oe Ch'i-wŏn

Although we got a lot of reformers on here, their activities are at least tied to their religion. I don't think that's the cause for Ch'oe, especially since during the time he was active, he was a Confucianist, not a Buddhist. I prefer moving him to the politicians page, but since he was apparently a philosopher, I'll leave that option out as well. (We do have people in that page who were government officials.)

To politicians
  1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 22:06, 14 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
To philosophers
Keep
Discuss

Remove Dorothy Kamenshek, Sophie Kurys, and Jackie Mitchell

PASSED
Removed 5-0. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 02:25, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

I hate to advocate against gender parity but for the case of baseball, it just doesn't make sense. Women generally don't play baseball (we list 2 women in the Softball section) and there hasn't been a professional women's baseball league since 1997 (the Ladies League Baseball league which folded after one year due to low fan turnout). The All-American Girls Professional Baseball League  5, which both Kurys and Kamenshek were a part of, makes sense at VA5 because it was probably the first professional women's sports league and it is an element of the (American) cultural zeitgeist through the movie A League of Their Own. However, I feel like this is sufficient and their best players don't need to be VA5 as well (both Kurys and Kamenshek have 1 interwiki each). Jackie Mitchell is an even more egregious inclusion. She was signed to a minor league team as a publicity stunt, played in one game where she struck out Lou Gehrig and Babe Ruth, was cut from the team a few days later, and never played in the MLB system ever after that. She is effectively a novelty (albeit a very impressive one) and should not be classified as VA5.

Support
  1. as nom Aurangzebra (talk) 06:52, 15 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. SailorGardevoir (talk) 21:40, 15 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 13:16, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. Interstellarity (talk) 13:01, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Neutral
Discuss
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Add Wallace Fard Muhammad

Again, making up for my recent proposals. Considering that the Nation of Islam has its own separate subsection for their figures, we should probably have its founder.

Support
  1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 21:48, 15 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Seems pretty important. QuicoleJR (talk) 15:13, 16 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Definitely important as Louis Farrakhan, or Elijah Muhammad. 49p (talk) 16:35, 16 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. Per nom. Makkool (talk) 15:42, 17 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

Add Baba Farid

Another person to make up for my recent proposals, although he seems to be just as important as a literature figure as he is a religious one, so I'll throw in that option as well. Seems pretty important amongst not just the Muslim population of Punjab, but for Punjabis in general.

Support (under Sufism)
  1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 22:30, 15 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Per nom. Makkool (talk) 15:42, 17 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Interstellarity (talk) 13:01, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support (under poets)
Oppose
Discuss

Remove MacKinlay Kantor

PASSED
Removed 4-0. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 02:26, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Not every Pulitzer Prize winner is vital, and this guy does not have much else going for him. Most of his books don't have articles, and there is no indication of lasting influence.

Support
  1. As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 12:33, 17 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Per nom. Makkool (talk) 15:42, 17 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 13:16, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. Interstellarity (talk) 13:01, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Neutral
Discuss
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Add Starhawk

An influential proponent on Neo-paganism in the public eye. List under Religious figures.

Support
  1. As nom. Makkool (talk) 15:42, 17 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Interstellarity (talk) 13:01, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Neutral
Discuss

Swap Meralda Warren  5 with Margaret Mahy

Meralda Warren is a local writer from a tiny British Overseas Territory. Her Wikipedia biography tells more about other things she has done than her writing career. On the other hand, Margaret Mahy was an acclaimed children's author from New Zealand with major-award-winning books. Currently we don't list any children's authors from NZ.

Support
  1. As nom. Makkool (talk) 15:42, 17 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Support addition per nom. She has won several major awards and written over 100 books. QuicoleJR (talk) 18:43, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
  1. Oppose removal Her having more importance than just being an author is a point towards keeping, not a reason to remove. Her article does a pretty good job of showing importance, and there are plenty of authors from the U.S. and UK who have nothing going for them besides writing a few somewhat popular books that we can remove first to meet the quota. QuicoleJR (talk) 18:43, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Neutral
Discuss

Add Donna Haraway

One of the most important feminist scholars of recent decades

Support
  1. As nom Iostn (talk) 21:32, 17 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 19:53, 23 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. J947 ‡ edits 05:40, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. Interstellarity (talk) 13:01, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

Add John Kricfalusi

Extremely influential yet controversial animator. He is known primarily creating the cartoon The Ren & Stimpy Show  5, which is extremely influential to animation. He is also known for his controversies around the show. He's often known as trying to be a "perfectionist" on producing episodes for Ren and Stimpy and pushing the limit on television animation with violence and innuendos. (His article doesn't go deep on it, but read Stimpy's Invention's production section for more info) Many animators credit him as a influence so I think he's vital to be here including with the show

Add John K.
  1. 49p (talk) 22:43, 17 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. SailorGardevoir (talk) 23:51, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Interstellarity (talk) 13:01, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose John K.
  1. I'd list Richard Williams (animator) before him, as a more influential example. Makkool (talk) 12:13, 28 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. The subpage where animators go is overquota (although maybe subpage quotas should be abolished too like section quotas were) and I'd rather re-add Disney's Nine Old Men (which was removed without discussion to fit the section quota).--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 15:40, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Discuss

Moving entries from "rebels" to "terrorists"

"Terrorists" is always going to be controversial as a subsection, but as long as its there, it makes sense to list people there if they are described as "terrorist" by their own articles.

I think it used to suffer as a section when there was a subsection quota, which encouraged filling it in quite an arbitrary way to reach a certain number of articles, while others were listed in different places regardless of wherever it made much sense.

For this reason I will propose moving the following articles currently listed with "rebels, revolutionaries and activists":

  • Carlos the Jackal  5 - described as committing "terrorist bombings" in the first sentence alone, and then directlty afterwards described as "one of the most notorious political terrorists of his era".
  • Ayman al-Zawahiri  5 - lede doesn't actually use the word "terrorist", but it still remains strewn throughout the rest of the article, and as he was the second leader of Al-Qaeda  5, it doesn't make much sense to separate him from Osama bin Laden  4 listing-wise.
  • Jihadi John  5 - "A group of his hostages nicknamed him "John" since he was part of a four-person terrorist cell"
  • Abu Musab al-Zarqawi  5 - "ran a terrorist training camp in Afghanistan"
Support
  1. As nom. Iostn (talk) 18:55, 18 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. SailorGardevoir (talk) 23:50, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 13:16, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

I would normally do myself but again, "terrorism" in inherently controversial as a label and ill-defined.

Support
  1. As nom. Iostn (talk) 18:55, 18 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. SailorGardevoir (talk) 23:50, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

Remove James T. Farrell

Last comment 17 days ago. Removed 4-0. QuicoleJR (talk) 11:34, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

He is only known for one book series, which had only minor cultural influences and TV/film adaptations that don't even have articles.

Support
  1. As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 19:15, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 15:34, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 05:55, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. Interstellarity (talk) 13:01, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Neutral
Discuss
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Swap: Remove Jamshid bin Abdullah of Zanzibar, add Ali Hassan Mwinyi and Samia Suluhu Hassan

At the present time, Zanzibar has two articles, including Jamshid, who fails the lettuce test of less than a year in office. Its successor nation, Tanzania, has sixty million people but only one article. Mwinyi served as president for 10 years and enacted a series of post-Nyerere reforms. Hassan is the country's first female president. Mwinyi and Hassan have significantly more interwikis than Jamshid. pbp 22:23, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. pbp 22:23, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Interstellarity (talk) 13:01, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discussion

Remove Leung Chun-ying

As with Tu above, Hong Kong is bloated with six post-1945 leaders, including five post-1997 leaders. Of the leaders of Hong Kong, he seems the least vital. pbp 22:57, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. pbp 22:57, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
  1. Don't really see how he's the least vital, he seems to mark an important milestone re: the erosion of Hong Kong's autonomy.
Discussion

Massive shift of politicians from early modern to post-classical without consensus

It used to be the split between post-classical and early modern was somewhere between 1400 and 1453. Now it's 1500, meaning quite a few Renaissance figures are listed in post-classical when ANY historian worth his salt would have them in early modern. Dozens, perhaps over 100 figures were moved, and I'm not only concerned about the WP:RANDY aspect of this, I'm also concerned that moving that many figures should have only been done with a consensus. pbp 17:21, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Who did it? The Blue Rider 20:06, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It was SailorGardevoir pbp 10:41, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@SailorGardevoir: The Blue Rider 11:25, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It used to be the split between post-classical and early modern was somewhere between 1400 and 1453. - based on what? This should have been noted somewhere on the vital list page. Thing is, Post-classical history says until 1500 CE, and early modern period says it starts about 1500. So what should be the year for the split? starship.paint (RUN) 14:46, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you. If the leaders/politicians page explicitly had a different timeline structure, then by all means revert it. However, so long as we have a generic four period structure as we do for most of the other pages (Ancient, Post-classical, Early modern, and Late modern), we need to stick with what our own articles on those periods state are the years they lasted. And if anyone has an issue with this, please go to this discussion, because I do think we need a clear answer for this. SailorGardevoir (talk) 20:10, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Add Hun Manet

Cambodia's current leader, I know he hasn't served a full year yet but him being the first new leader in 37 years makes him vital IMO. Kevinishere15 (talk) 04:56, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. As nom. Kevinishere15 (talk) 04:56, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
  1. I don't really see why we are priotizing him over other new leaders especially when his accesion doesn't seem to herald any significant change in Cambodia. Iostn (talk) 16:53, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Unlikely to be seen as vital in 20 years' time. J947 ‡ edits 05:39, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Discuss

Remove Bernardo De Pace

I have been nominated some articles largely based on being stubs, so let me nominate an article that's actually decent. I'm not really a fan of using the number as a way to determine an article's vitality (I've has come across some articles with single digit interwikis that I feel should have more), but he only has two interwikis, and rateyourmusic does not have a page for him.

Support
  1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 09:56, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 05:55, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Makkool (talk) 08:36, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. J947 ‡ edits 05:38, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

Murderer clean-up

Before subsection quotas were abolished there was a supported proposal to reduce the number of spaces under "Murder, serial killing, mass murder" in favour of those responsible for more societally impactful crimes (such as assassination, crimes against humanity and terrorism). While this was rendered moot by the removal of quotas, I still think the murder section needs to be cleaned up as it has quite a big US bias and also many of the spree killers also have the sprees they were responsible for listed under history, which makes a better case for cleaning up spaces here.

Remove Gameel Al-Batouti

Aside from anything else, it doesn't even seem clear, nor is there any way to conclusively determine, whether he deliberately caused deaths or not. I suppose EgyptAir Flight 990 could be listed but I'm not sure how much it stands out compared to other plane crashes.

Support
  1. As nom. Iostn (talk) 20:42, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 05:55, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. SailorGardevoir (talk) 23:53, 9 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. Interstellarity (talk) 13:01, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

Remove Martin Bryant

Port Arthur massacre (Australia)  5 is already listed.

Support
  1. As nom. Iostn (talk) 20:42, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 05:55, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Interstellarity (talk) 13:01, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

Swap Seung-Hui Cho for Virginia Tech shooting

Based on the principle of the vent itself being more important than the person who is solely notable because of it.

Support
  1. As nom. Iostn (talk) 20:42, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 05:55, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Interstellarity (talk) 13:01, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

Remove Belle Gunness

Not among the most well-known serial killers. The article does say that "some sources speculate her involvement in as many as 40 murders making her one of the most prolific female serial killers in history", but that is well, speculative.

Support
  1. As nom. Iostn (talk) 20:42, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 05:55, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Interstellarity (talk) 13:01, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

Remove Richard Hauptmann

Lindbergh kidnapping  5 is already listed, and he is not known to have been responsible for any other murders.

Support
  1. As nom. Iostn (talk) 20:42, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 05:55, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Interstellarity (talk) 13:01, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss


Remove Richard Hickock and Perry Edward Smith

These two are seemingly only listed for their involvement in a murder case which inspired the writing of In Cold Blood  5, which was influential on the True crime  5 genre. The book is already listed and their actual crime doesn't seem to stand out on a broader level.

Support
  1. As nom. Iostn (talk) 20:42, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 05:55, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Interstellarity (talk) 13:01, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

Swap Andrew Kehoe for Bath School disaster

Same rationale as Seung-Hui Cho.

Support
  1. As nom. Iostn (talk) 20:42, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 05:55, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Interstellarity (talk) 13:01, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

Remove Marc Lépine

École Polytechnique massacre  5 is already listed.

Support
  1. As nom. Iostn (talk) 20:42, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 05:55, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Interstellarity (talk) 13:01, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss


Remove Earle Nelson

"considered the first known serial sex murderer of the twentieth century". Other than that doesn't really seem to stand out compared to other serial killers.

Support
  1. As nom. Iostn (talk) 20:42, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 05:55, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Interstellarity (talk) 13:01, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

Remove Stephen Paddock

2017 Las Vegas shooting is already listed.

Support
  1. As nom. Iostn (talk) 20:42, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 05:55, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Interstellarity (talk) 13:01, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

Remove Jane Toppan

Doesn't stand out compared to other serial killers.

Support
  1. As nom. Iostn (talk) 20:42, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 05:55, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Interstellarity (talk) 13:01, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

Add Pedro López (serial killer)

One of the most prolific serial killers in history, and is second only to Luis Garavito  5 on List of serial killers by number of victims.

Support
  1. As nom. Iostn (talk) 20:42, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Interstellarity (talk) 13:01, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss


Add Pedro Rodrigues Filho

Per his cultural influence in Brazil, and this list needs less US bias. Also inspired the protagonist of Dexter (TV series)  5.

Support
  1. As nom. Iostn (talk) 20:42, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Interstellarity (talk) 13:01, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

Remove Howard Unruh

Initially didn't propose this as I was under the impression it was relatively well-remembered, but the low number of interwikis and pageviews compared to many of the others here indicates otherwise.

Support
  1. As nom. Iostn (talk) 22:46, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Interstellarity (talk) 13:01, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

Remove Casualties of the September 11 attacks

Or just move it to history. I hate to remove an article based on how it fits into this project, but this one just sticks out like a sore thumb being on the people pages. Even the articles based on a group of people don't really resemble what is essentially a statistic page.

Support
  1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 01:54, 23 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 15:03, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Seems way too specific. 49p (talk) 06:09, 26 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

Add Nehru–Gandhi family and/or remove Kennedy family

The former is clearly more vital than the latter, IMO. A removal may be in order given how both are just glorified lists at the minute, but I reckon more could be written of them. J947 ‡ edits 04:11, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support both
Support addition; oppose removal
  1. Tentatively, as nom. J947 ‡ edits 04:11, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. pbp 12:46, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. SailorGardevoir (talk) 06:19, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. Iostn (talk) 16:57, 26 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  5. TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 13:11, 27 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support removal; oppose addition
Oppose both
Discussion

Remove Woo Bum-kon incident  5

Article was moved from Woo Bum-kon and rescoped to be event-based and not a biography. It is now no longer fit for its section which is of criminal biographies. PARAKANYAA (talk) 01:45, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 06:09, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 08:36, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Neutral
Discussion
  1. This just brings up the question: does it really make much difference how the article is framed, if its still focused solely through the lens of its perpertrator (and I'm not sure if that page should've been even moved to start with, if reliable sources are just naming the events strictly through that lens anyway)? For example, if we list a murder case of someone who is only known for being the victim of that particularly murder case, should that be under the victims section? Iostn (talk) 16:53, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Add Georgette Heyer

My previous removal nominations, as well as the ones still to come, should make enough room to add this woman. She has had a major impact on the Romance novel  4 genre, having a major role in popularizing the historical romance subgenre and creating a new subgenre of that. 40 of her books currently have their own articles. 24 interwikis, rated Top-Importance by WikiProject Romance and WikiProject Women writers.

Support
  1. As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 18:04, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Iostn (talk) 16:53, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. SailorGardevoir (talk) 10:12, 30 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Neutral
Discuss

Add Budai

AKA The Laughing Buddha. Favorite subject for East Asian artists and the reason why a lot of Westerners picture the founder of Buddhism as a fat Chinese man. (Nominating him here since the general consensus appears to be that he was originally an actual Chinese monk who later got deified.)

Support
  1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 06:38, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 08:36, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Iostn (talk) 16:53, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 08:00, 26 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

Remove XXXTentacion

Definitely popular but I don't think he's vital enough to be included in the hip-hop section. You could say he popularized the emo rap and soundcloud rap scene but I think that's way too specific to be vital. Juice WRLD or Lil Peep are similar yet we do not include them. Mid importance on Hip-hop and alt music.

Support
  1. 49p (talk) 05:22, 26 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 08:00, 26 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Per nominator. The Blue Rider 10:21, 26 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. per nom. Makkool (talk) 11:04, 26 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  5. TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 13:21, 27 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
  1. I think mumble rap is biggish enough to warrant having someone representing the scene. SailorGardevoir (talk) 08:23, 26 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Oppose. Even though it may not have cross-generational appeal, Soundcloud rap is a significant enough global phenomenon among the younger generations that its most important artist probably deserves a spot here. It even says on his Wikipedia article that, according to a YouGov poll conducted in 2023, a majority of Americans have heard of him. He is also credited with being inspirations for other clear-cut VA5-level rappers Kendrick Lamar  5 and Kanye West  5 and even mainstream pop artist Billie Eilish  5. He is also in the top 20 for all-time artists in digital single sales. That is very impressive for someone who only makes music in a genre that is too specific to be vital. Aurangzebra (talk) 00:10, 30 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Per Aurangzebra Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 01:01, 6 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment

Remove Gulshan Kumar  5

Known for creating T-Series (company), which isn't even vital (we don't list any record label as vital AFAIK). Not much argument is made in the article to prove he's vital compared to what we have in his section. We add record label owners like Rick Rubin  5 because their actions within the label helped popularize a genre or influenced music heavily. I don't see this in Kumar's article.

Support
  1. 49p (talk) 05:39, 26 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 08:00, 26 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. per nom. Makkool (talk) 11:04, 26 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
  1. Founder of the largest record label in the world's most populous country. And FYI, EMI  5 is vital.
  2. Per above. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 23:24, 27 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Discuss

Remove AXXo

Unknown individual known for movie rips. Extremely popular during the era, but I feel like there are other groups and people known for piracy that aren't included. We don't include Razor 1911 which has been software cracking since 1985 compared to aXXo whose career is from 2005 to 2009.

Support
  1. per nom. I would support a swap for Razor 1911 if that gets enough votes. 49p (talk) 05:54, 26 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. per above. starship.paint (RUN) 08:00, 26 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. pbp 13:51, 26 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. Per nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 23:20, 27 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

Add Anonymous (hacker group)  5

Popular for their cyberattacks and prescene in the 2010s. Quite literally listed as "100 most influential people" per Time magazine in 2012 according to the article. I don't think this one needs much explaining, considering we also include LulzSec  5.

Support
  1. 49p (talk) 06:03, 26 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Important enough, if needed we could swap with Lulzsec. Kevinishere15 (talk) 06:19, 26 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Plenty of real-world influence.--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 07:29, 26 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. per above. starship.paint (RUN) 08:00, 26 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  5. Iostn (talk) 16:57, 26 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  6. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 00:13, 30 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

I WILL say this, though: making the TIME 100 just once isn't a good criteria for inclusion. We don't even have all the TIME People of the Year. pbp 13:53, 26 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I made this late at night haha. I was trying to say that the group itself has undoubtedly enough influence in the real world. not just because it's specifically in "time 100" 49p (talk) 14:54, 26 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
We likely will never have the 2006 Time Person of the Year :) Aurangzebra (talk) 00:13, 30 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Remove Caroline Lee Hentz

Only claim to vitality is writing a somewhat famous anti-Tom novel. She did not start the short-lived anti-Tom movement and Anti-Tom literature is not listed as vital. Only 6 interwikis.

Support
  1. As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 16:54, 26 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 15:51, 27 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Per nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 23:19, 27 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 10:13, 30 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Neutral
Discuss

Remove Kevin Poulsen

Not actually that important as a hacker (he is currently listed under "computer crimes") and his subsequent journalism career which he is actually more notable for itself doesn't seem to be enough to make the cut (he is simply a "contributing editor", and has been involved a few major/majorish cases mentioned but that's it)

Support
  1. Nom Iostn (talk) 16:59, 26 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 15:51, 27 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

Add John Barrowman or swap with Mike Farrell  5

Barrowman is a quite significant scottish actor and being LGBTQ he would help diversify the list. I offer a swap given that the list of entertainers is over the quota. I suggest Farrell as Barrowman has 12 more interwikis than him and Farrell only really has one significant role being MASH. Questions? four Olifanofmrtennant (she/her) 06:26, 27 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. As nominator. I also vote for the swap. Questions? four Olifanofmrtennant (she/her) 06:26, 27 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Support swap Iostn (talk) 11:12, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

Add Ibn Muqla to Persian artists

Per Brittanica, this 9th century Persian calligrapher invented naskh (script), tawqi and thuluth, and was thrice vizier of the Abbasid Caliphate. starship.paint (RUN) 07:00, 28 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. as nom. starship.paint (RUN) 07:01, 28 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Iostn (talk) 11:12, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

Remove Islam Makhachev

Good fighter but way too early to tell if he will be vital. He is only 32. Nothing on his article suggests any lasting vitality. He is overshadowed in almost every way by his trainer Khabib Nurmagomedov  5. Aurangzebra (talk) 00:42, 30 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. as nom. Aurangzebra (talk) 00:42, 30 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. per nom. Recentism. starship.paint (RUN) 01:46, 30 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Too many MMA personalities pbp 07:00, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. In my opinion, he will become vital in a couple years. Just not now. 49p (talk) 07:12, 7 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I agree. Aurangzebra (talk) 02:26, 8 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

Discussion - standard for a V5 actor?

If I may suggest, we can establish a standard for V5 actors by naming actors that do meet this level of vitality, and comparing the rest of the entries on the list to this group. If the other entries are not on this level, they should be removed. I have listed 10 relatively modern English-speaking actors below, of various nationalities. How does everyone feel about this list? Do these 10 set a good enough standard? Is there any one of these 10 that are not on the others' level?

  1. Keanu Reeves  5
  2. Nicolas Cage  5
  3. Tom Cruise  5
  4. Leonardo DiCaprio  5
  5. Robert Downey Jr.  5
  6. Brad Pitt  5
  7. Arnold Schwarzenegger  5
  8. Daniel Day-Lewis  5
  9. Gary Oldman  5
  10. Hugh Jackman  5

starship.paint (RUN) 01:52, 30 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'd feel better about these lists if the WHY accompanied the WHO. (Related, since I see William Hartnell and David Tennant listed, is playing Doctor Who a mark of VA5?) pbp 02:53, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Tennant has been pretty prolific outside of Doctor Who. I wasn’t completely sure for the tenth entry that’s why I listed two. Questions? four Olifanofmrtennant (she/her) 02:56, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
And another question: is the "standard" the MOST VITAL that didn't make VA4, or is it the MEDIAN vitality of VA5-not-VA4? 02:58, 31 May 2024 (UTC) pbp 02:58, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Purplebackpack89:, I'll explain my rational, I tried to create a diverse list.
  1. Neil Patrick Harris was picked for How I Met Your Mother  5 as well as other shows, he has received serveral awards. He is openly gay and named one of times 100 Most Influential People in 2010.
  2. Andy Griffith for the The Andy Griffith Show  5, he's in the Television Hall of Fame, a portion of US Highway 52 is dedicated to him.
  3. Bryan Cranston, Malcolm in the Middle]] and Breaking Bad  5 he's receved extensive awards. In recent years he's done a lot of broadway acting,
  4. Mr. T for The A-Team and his wrestling career, he had major role in Rocky 3. Possibly not as strong as the other entries.
  5. William Hartnell for Doctor Who  4 and his other pretty long career.
  6. George Takei for Star Trek  4. Takei is also a LGBT rights advicat being openly gay.
I can get too the others shortly would anyone like to propose any changes? Questions? four Olifanofmrtennant (she/her) 04:11, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Purplebackpack89: - for my film actors list, my hope is that it would be the median of V5. A 'just below V4' list would not be useful. starship.paint (RUN) 12:51, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Let me consider this: the AFI list, the Kennedy Center Honors, and Academy Awards. Many of the people on the AFI list are VA4 and the ones that aren't are near the Top of VA5. Same deal with KCH. Academy Awards is kind of a mixed bag, because there doesn't seem to be a great correlation between winning an Academy Award in a particular year and being considered one of the greatest ever. That being said, probably the MEDIAN or average of a VA5-not-VA4 is one Academy Award. Daniel Day-Lewis has three lead actor awards, so I think he's ABOVE the median VA5-not-VA4 actor. pbp* 16:48, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    It would sound better to me to compare to lists by outside experts just as these, rather than to make a top ten yardstick ourselves. Makkool (talk) 18:02, 7 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The right size?

I figure probably the right number of actors and actresses is somewhere between 300 and 400. So we have at least twice the actors and actresses as we should pbp 19:53, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Purplebackpack89: It should presumably be split 50/50. 488 actors and 465 actresses. Both need to be cut by around half. Questions? four Olifanofmrtennant (she/her) 01:16, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Not sure if it should be 50-50. At least, when I looked at contemporary actresses, I don't see them being as vital as the contemporary actors. I think actors have more career longevity? Anyway, drastic cuts are needed, and anyone like Jared Leto absolutely need to go. starship.paint (RUN) 15:26, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
300 would be 5 times the amount of actors and actresses in V4, which should be just the right amount. Makkool (talk) 18:02, 7 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Remove Abdellatief Abouheif  5, Olga Brusnikina  5, and Anastasia Davydova  5

All three are stubs. Abouheif's Arabic article is a little bit longer, but he only has five interwikis. In contrast, while Brusnikina and Davydova both have at least twenty interwikis, they are all pretty stubby as much as their English article, including the Russian versions. (Roland Matthes  5 is also a stub, but he is a lot closer comparatively to start status, and he's considered the greatest backstroke swimmer of all time; for that, I'm not nominating him.)

Support
  1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 07:25, 7 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
Discuss

Remove Hu Ronghua

Stub and only has 7 interwikis.

Support
  1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 07:36, 7 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
Discuss

Remove Lars Hall

Stub (as in three sentences) on here and on Swedish Wikipedia.

Support
  1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 07:39, 7 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Not every Olympic gold medalist is vital. Ping me if anything more substantial is found. QuicoleJR (talk) 22:08, 7 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
  4. Iostn (talk) 11:12, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

Add Branimir of Croatia to politicians

Father of medieval Croatia

Support
  1. pbp 16:09, 7 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Iostn (talk) 11:12, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]


Remove Philip Farkas

Only five interwikis and no RYM page.

Support
  1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 01:07, 9 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 18:06, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
Discuss

Remove The Great Lester

Stub. Only has three interwikis.

Support
  1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 03:12, 9 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 18:06, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
Discuss

Remove Guo Qiru, Hou Baolin, and Katsura Bunshi VI

I get the desire to be diverse, and the native versions of Hou's and especially Katsura's articles are in much better shape, but they each only have two to three interwikis.

Support
  1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 03:25, 9 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 18:06, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

Remove Matt Mattox

Stub. Only has seven interwikis.

Support
  1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 03:25, 9 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 18:06, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
Discuss

Remove Johann Christian Fischer

Do we really need an oboe player?

Support
  1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 03:36, 9 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 18:06, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
  1. I think we do to be honest, and he's not crazy obscure. J947 ‡ edits 05:37, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Discuss

Remove some ballet dancers

I'm seeing a lot of stub-level ballet dancers with single digits interwikis.

Remove Anneli Alhanko

Stub. Swedish article is a bit better, but that's only one out of eight interwikis.

Support
  1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 05:02, 9 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 18:06, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. pbp 16:08, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
Discuss

Remove Marie Allard

Already removed from a different discussion. QuicoleJR (talk) 14:57, 21 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Stub. French article is not much better.

Support
  1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 05:10, 9 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 18:06, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. pbp 16:08, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
Discuss

I just discovered that there is already a discussion for her removal. SailorGardevoir (talk) 00:46, 13 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Remove Claude Balon

Same as above. (Also only have 6 interwikis.)

Support
  1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 07:58, 9 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 18:06, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. pbp 16:08, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
Discuss

Remove Fabritio Caroso

Consists of only three paragraphs. Italian version is very marginally better, with one additional (single sentence) paragraph and four stanza length quote.

Support
  1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 05:17, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 18:06, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. pbp 16:08, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
Discuss

Remove Fanny Cerrito

Same thing. Italian version is also very marginally better, this time with five additional paragraphs, although the average amount of sentences for all the paragraphs is about two to three.

Support
  1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 06:28, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 18:06, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. pbp 16:08, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

v

Oppose
Discuss

Remove Antonio Cornazzano

Just four paragraphs. He seems more important as a writer anyway, as evidenced by the fact that his Italian article doesn't even mention his career as a dancer.

Support
  1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 09:09, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 18:06, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. pbp 16:08, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
Discuss

Remove Natalia Dudinskaya

Just three paragraphs. Russian article is slightly longer, but every paragraph is pretty short.

Support
  1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 21:57, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. pbp 16:08, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Makkool (talk) 08:58, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
Discuss

Remove Louis Dupré (dancer)

Stub and six interwikis.

Support
  1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 22:35, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. pbp 16:08, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Makkool (talk) 08:58, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
Discuss

Remove Violetta Elvin

Only has 5 interwikis and dear god is this article bare.

Support
  1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 02:46, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. pbp 16:08, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Makkool (talk) 08:58, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
Discuss

Remove Pavel Gerdt

Just three paragraphs. Russian article (which is just one out of nine interwikis) mostly consists of lists.

Support
  1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 09:10, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. pbp 16:08, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Makkool (talk) 08:58, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
Discuss

Remove Geneviève Gosselin

Four paragraphs. Three interwikis.

Support
  1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 10:57, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. pbp 16:08, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Makkool (talk) 08:58, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
Discuss

Remove Marie Guy-Stéphan

Only seven interwikis.

Support
  1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 03:52, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 08:58, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
Discuss

Remove De Lafontaine

I understand the need for having the first female professional ballet dancer, but look at her article. Just two paragraphs and nine interwikis. We don't even know her first name.

Support
  1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 20:56, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
  3. Makkool (talk) 07:02, 30 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

Remove Pauline Leroux

Four paragraphs. Three interwikis.

Support
  1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 23:34, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
  3. Makkool (talk) 07:02, 30 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

Remove Liu Qingtang and Xue Jinghua

We don't even have the Red Detachment of Women, so why do we have their stars? They only have one and two interwikis respectively.

Support
  1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 23:52, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. per nom (support Liu, will review Xue another time) starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
  3. support both Makkool (talk) 07:02, 30 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

Remove Russell Maliphant

I think that note right there says it all about its quality. Also he only has three interwikis.

Support
  1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 01:51, 13 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
  3. Makkool (talk) 07:02, 30 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

Remove Guglielmo Ebreo da Pesaro

Only has eight interwikis.

Support
  1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 22:43, 13 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
  3. Makkool (talk) 07:02, 30 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

Remove Domenico da Piacenza

Just four paragraphs (which is one paragraph longer than the Italian version) and eight interwikis.

Support
  1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 04:27, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 07:02, 30 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

Remove Françoise Prévost

Just four paragraphs (which is one paragraph longer than the Italian version) and nine interwikis.

Support
  1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 06:05, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 07:02, 30 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

Remove Armand Vestris and Auguste Vestris

I got to be honest, I'm not seeing anything that indicates that any of the Vestris are vital, including Gaétan Vestris, who has a healthy 23 interwikis. For now though, I'm just going to nominate Armand and Auguste, who only have 3 and 11 interwikis respectively.

Support
  1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 08:41, 15 June 2024 (UTC)~[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 07:02, 30 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

Remove Edward Villella

Only four interwikis.

Support
  1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 21:43, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 07:02, 30 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

Add Sai Baba of Shirdi

This is the guy who Sathya Sai Baba  5 claims to be a reincarnation of. Seems like he was a very popular religious figure in India for both Hindus and Muslims (although note that it's not clear what religion he actually belonged to), his article is B-tier, he got 35 interwikis, and he's rated high-importance in a lot of WikiProjects.

Support
  1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 21:11, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 08:58, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Iostn (talk) 11:12, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]


Oppose
Discuss

Remove Jenna Marbles and Cara Cunningham

PASSED
Cunningham removed 7-0, Marbles 6-1. Makkool (talk) 15:59, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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I would argue the majority of internet personalities at V5 are worthy of vitality. These two are not in that majority, and I fail to see how either are worthy of V5 (outside of maybe diversity, but they're not even the most successful female content creators). Plenty of content creators have twenty million followers and billions of views at this point (and they weren't some of the first), and I don't feel like any of their achievements are particularly noteworthy. Maybe we could do a swap if there's any objection to an outright removal?

Support
  1. As nom. λ NegativeMP1 01:32, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 08:58, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. pbp 14:59, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 21:00, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  5. Hardly ever heard of the latter nomination. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 02:24, 13 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  6. per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
  7. Support removing Cara Cunningham as she is only highly well-known for the "Leave Britney Alone" video Iostn (talk) 11:12, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
  1. Oppose removing Marbles since I am aware she was one of the biggest YouTubers at one point, the article does need significant work however. Iostn (talk) 11:12, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Neutral
Discuss
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Host removals

American television hosts is out of control. There are three at VA4 and 94 at VA5. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Remove Bob Eubanks

PASSED
Removed 6-0. Makkool (talk) 11:47, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Look, I loved his coverage of the Rose Parade and all, but we recently removed Gene Rayburn and I don't see how Eubanks stays if Rayburn goes. Only three interwikis. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 18:02, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. λ NegativeMP1 19:27, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 21:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  5. per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
  6. Iostn (talk) 11:12, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discussion
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Remove Chris Harrison

PASSED
Removed 5-0. Makkool (talk) 11:47, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Only eight interwikis pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 18:02, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. λ NegativeMP1 19:27, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 21:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  5. per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)

Chris Harrison

Oppose
Discussion
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Remove Roy Clark

I have a hard time believing he's one of the 50-60 most important television hosts pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 18:02, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. λ NegativeMP1 19:27, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 04:22, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discussion

Remove Mike Douglas

PASSED
Removed 4-0. Makkool (talk) 11:47, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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I have a hard time believing he's one of the 50-60 most important television hosts. Only 13 interwikis. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 18:02, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. λ NegativeMP1 19:27, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
Discussion
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Remove Morton Downey Jr.

PASSED
Removed 6-0. Makkool (talk) 11:47, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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I have a hard time believing he's one of the 50-60 most important television hosts. Only six interwikis. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 18:02, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. λ NegativeMP1 19:27, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. I was going to argue against removing him since his page suggests he was a major pioneer for trash TV, but he actually only has 6 interwikis. SailorGardevoir (talk) 21:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  5. per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
  6. Iostn (talk) 11:12, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discussion
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Remove Joe Franklin

PASSED
Removed 5-0. Makkool (talk) 11:47, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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While he may have been one of the first talk show hosts, he only has three interwikis pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 18:02, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. λ NegativeMP1 19:27, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 21:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  5. per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
Discussion
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Remove Jeff Foxworthy

FAILED
Not removed 3-2. Makkool (talk) 11:47, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Another Rayburn-level host. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Support removal. I agree that he is more important as a comedian than a game show host, but I would rather list Larry the Cable Guy than him to represent blue collar comedy. Makkool (talk) 18:02, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. λ NegativeMP1 19:27, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
  1. Eh, he has 41 interwikis and he's considered high-importance on the Comedy WikiProject. SailorGardevoir (talk) 21:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Per above Iostn (talk) 11:12, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Discussion
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Remove Nicole Richie

PASSED
Removed 4-0. Makkool (talk) 11:47, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Mostly notable as the sidekick to Paris Hilton pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 18:02, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. λ NegativeMP1 19:27, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
Discussion
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Remove Craig Kilborn

PASSED
Removed 5-0. Makkool (talk) 11:47, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Only seven interwikis. Overshadowed by fellas like Conan, Letterman and John Stewart. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 18:02, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. λ NegativeMP1 19:27, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 21:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  5. per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
Discussion
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Remove Julie Chen Moonves

PASSED
Removed 5-0. Makkool (talk) 11:47, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Only six interwikis. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 18:02, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. λ NegativeMP1 19:27, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 21:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  5. per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
Discussion
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Remove Richard Dawson

PASSED
Removed 4-0. Makkool (talk) 11:47, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Another Rayburn-level host. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 18:02, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. λ NegativeMP1 19:27, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. per nom.starship.paint ~ starship.paint (RUN) 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discussion
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Remove Jinx Falkenburg

PASSED
Removed 5-0. Makkool (talk) 11:47, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Only two interwikis. While she was one of the first talk show hosts, she's overshadowed by later but more famous hosts pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 18:02, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. λ NegativeMP1 19:27, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 21:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  5. per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
Discussion
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Remove Elizabeth Hasselback

PASSED
Removed 4-0. Makkool (talk) 11:47, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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13 interwikis, which is more than some but still not a great deal. Mostly known as being part of an ensemble. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 18:02, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. λ NegativeMP1 19:27, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
Discussion
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Remove Dennis James

PASSED
Removed 5-0. Makkool (talk) 11:47, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Maybe slightly more notable than Rayburn but in his neighborhood. Only six interwikis. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 18:02, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. λ NegativeMP1 19:27, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 21:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  5. per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
Discussion
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Remove Ricki Lake

PASSED
Removed 4-0. Makkool (talk) 11:47, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Just don't feel she's VA5

Support
  1. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 18:02, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. λ NegativeMP1 19:27, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
Discussion
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Remove Art Linkletter

PASSED
Removed 5-0. Makkool (talk) 11:47, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Only eight interwikis. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 18:02, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. λ NegativeMP1 19:27, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 21:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  5. per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
Discussion
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Remove Mario Lopez

PASSED
Removed 4-0. Makkool (talk) 11:47, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Just don't feel he's VA5 pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 18:02, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. λ NegativeMP1 19:27, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
Discussion
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Remove Allen Ludden

PASSED
Removed 5-0. Makkool (talk) 11:47, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Only eight interwikis. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 18:02, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. λ NegativeMP1 19:27, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 21:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  5. per nom.starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
Discussion
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Remove Phil McGraw

PASSED
Removed 4-2. Makkool (talk) 11:47, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Oprah spinoff. She's vital but IDK if he is pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 18:02, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. λ NegativeMP1 19:27, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
  1. I do think he has a large impact on the way we view mental health (albeit a negative one). SailorGardevoir (talk) 21:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. per above Iostn (talk) 11:12, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Discussion
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Remove Mehmet Oz

PASSED
Removed 4-2. Makkool (talk) 11:47, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Oprah spinoff. She's vital but IDK if he is pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 18:02, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. λ NegativeMP1 19:27, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
  1. I do think he has a large impact on the way we view health (albeit a negative one). SailorGardevoir (talk) 21:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. per above Iostn (talk) 11:12, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Discussion
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Remove Ed McMahon

PASSED
Removed 4-0. Makkool (talk) 11:47, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Johnny Carson sidekick. Johnny's vital but IDK if Ed is. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 18:02, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. λ NegativeMP1 19:27, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
Discussion
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Remove Jack Paar

PASSED
Removed 4-0. Makkool (talk) 11:47, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Only a dozen interwikis. The Tonight Show is an influential program but we have Carson, Leno, Conan and Steve Allen already. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 18:02, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. λ NegativeMP1 19:27, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discussion
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Remove Drew Pinsky

PASSED
Removed 5-0. Makkool (talk) 11:47, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Only eight interwikis. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 18:02, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. λ NegativeMP1 19:27, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 21:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  5. per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
Discussion
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Remove Maury Povich

PASSED
Removed 4-0. Makkool (talk) 11:47, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Another Rayburn-level host. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 18:02, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. λ NegativeMP1 19:27, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
Discussion
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Remove Jeff Probst

PASSED
Removed 4-0. Makkool (talk) 11:47, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Another Rayburn-level host. Only 12 interwikis. I get that Survivor was a big deal for awhile but... pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 18:02, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. λ NegativeMP1 19:27, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
Discussion
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Remove Sally Jessy Raphael

PASSED
Removed 6-0. Makkool (talk) 11:47, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Only six interwikis. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 18:02, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. λ NegativeMP1 19:27, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 21:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  5. per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
  6. Iostn (talk) 11:12, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discussion
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Remove Cristina Saralegui

PASSED
Removed 5-0. Makkool (talk) 11:47, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Only nine interwikis. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 18:02, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. λ NegativeMP1 19:27, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 21:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  5. per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
Discussion
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Remove Buffalo Bob Smith

PASSED
Removed 5-0. Makkool (talk) 11:47, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Only five interwikis. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 18:02, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. λ NegativeMP1 19:27, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. Fine with removing him, but Howdy Doody only has four interwikis? SailorGardevoir (talk) 21:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  5. per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
Discussion
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Remove Tom Snyder

PASSED
Removed 6-0. Makkool (talk) 11:47, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Only four interwikis. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 18:02, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. λ NegativeMP1 19:27, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 21:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  5. per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
  6. Iostn (talk) 11:12, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discussion
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Remove David Susskind

PASSED
Removed 6-0. Makkool (talk) 11:47, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Only four interwikis. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 18:02, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. λ NegativeMP1 19:27, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 21:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  5. per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
  6. Iostn (talk) 11:12, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discussion
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Remove John Walsh (television host)

PASSED
Removed 5-0. Makkool (talk) 11:47, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Only seven interwikis. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 18:02, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. λ NegativeMP1 19:27, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 21:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  5. per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
Discussion
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Remove Lawrence Welk

PASSED
Removed 4-0. Makkool (talk) 11:47, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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My family comes from North Dakota and as such liked his show. But apparently many people don't...only a dozen interwikis.

Support
  1. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 18:02, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. λ NegativeMP1 19:27, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
Discussion
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Remove Montel Williams

PASSED
Removed 4-0. Makkool (talk) 11:47, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Another Rayburn-level host. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 18:02, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. λ NegativeMP1 19:27, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
Discussion
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Remove Wendy Williams

PASSED
Removed 4-0. Makkool (talk) 11:47, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Another Rayburn-level host. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 18:02, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. λ NegativeMP1 19:27, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
Discussion
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Remove Chuck Woolery

PASSED
Removed 5-0. Makkool (talk) 11:47, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Only six interwikis. Another Rayburn-level host...if that. Overshadowed by his successor Pat Sajak. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 18:02, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. λ NegativeMP1 19:27, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 21:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  5. per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
Discussion
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General discussion

I feel like an area where a mass removal proposal like this should happen next is popular musicians. We have 860 of them at V5 compared to 60 at V4. Plus the "Artists, musicians, and composers" section is nearly 100 over quota. I feel like the most we should have at V5 is around 600... λ NegativeMP1 19:27, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Remove Josef Gusikov

A while back, I moved the klezmer musicians from the non-European art music section to the popular music section. (I don't know why that genre got placed there either; I have never heard anyone refer klezmer as a form of art music.) This has resulted in Gusikov here being the only person listed under popular musicians to predate recorded music. By a couple of decades actually. Since he only has nine interwikis, I suggest we just remove him.

Support
  1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 01:21, 13 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
  3. Iostn (talk) 11:12, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. Makkool (talk) 12:56, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

Remove Rock Steady Crew and Crazy Legs (dancer)

I hate to do this, because I have heard people consider the Rock Steady Crew and Crazy Legs in particular as being very important to the development of breakdancing. But the Rock Steady Crew is in piss poor shape and only has eight interwikis, while Crazy Legs (whose article is at least decent) only has four.

Support
  1. Reluctantly. SailorGardevoir (talk) 04:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 12:56, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

British, Canadian and Australian television hosts removals

Above, I made nominations to address U.S. television host bloat but British, Canadian and Australian television host bloat is also pretty bad.

Remove Rove McManus

PASSED
Removed 4-0. Makkool (talk) 15:28, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Only six interwikis. We don't need 14 Australasian TV personalities. pbp 22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. pbp 22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 12:56, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. SailorGardevoir (talk) 00:58, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discussion
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Remove Kevin O'Leary

PASSED
Removed 4-0. Makkool (talk) 15:28, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Only seven languages. Mostly known as a businessman who appeared on an ensemble show. pbp 22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. pbp 22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 12:56, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. SailorGardevoir (talk) 00:58, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discussion
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Remove George Stroumboulopoulos

PASSED
Removed 4-0. Makkool (talk) 15:28, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Only eight interwikis. Not even on the level of Gene Rayburn, which we removed. pbp 22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. pbp 22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 12:56, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. SailorGardevoir (talk) 00:58, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discussion
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Remove Clive Anderson

PASSED
Removed 4-0. Makkool (talk) 15:28, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The franchise Whose Line Is It Anyway? is possibly notable but I don't think Clive Anderson is. Only nine interwikis. pbp 22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. pbp 22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 12:56, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. SailorGardevoir (talk) 00:58, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discussion
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Remove Melvyn Bragg

PASSED
Removed 4-0. Makkool (talk) 15:28, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Only 10 interwikis. pbp 22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. pbp 22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 12:56, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. SailorGardevoir (talk) 00:58, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discussion
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Remove Gay Byrne

FAILED
Not removed 2-2. Makkool (talk) 15:28, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Hosted a show for a long time but it's far from the most notable of shows. Only seven interwikis. pbp 22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. pbp 22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. He might be praised as being the most important television personality in Ireland, but at the end of the day he only has seven interwikis. SailorGardevoir (talk) 00:50, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
  1. "In 2010, The Irish Times said Byrne was "unquestionably the most influential radio and television man in the history of the Irish State"" - if we're trying to make TV hosts less US biased, then removing some of the most important figures from other countries seems antithetical to that. Iostn (talk) 11:12, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. per above Makkool (talk) 12:56, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Discussion
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Remove Judith Chalmers

PASSED
Removed 4-0. Makkool (talk) 15:28, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Only four interwikis. pbp 22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. pbp 22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 12:56, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. SailorGardevoir (talk) 00:58, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discussion
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Remove Bill Grundy

PASSED
Removed 4-0. Makkool (talk) 15:28, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Stub with only four interwikis. The Sex Pistols might be VA5 but he isn't. pbp 22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. pbp 22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Only really notable for the Sex Pistols connection. Iostn (talk) 11:12, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Makkool (talk) 12:56, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 00:58, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discussion
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Remove Russell Harty

PASSED
Removed 4-0. Makkool (talk) 15:28, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Just a single interwiki link and lede doesn't even mention any notable shows he hosted. pbp 22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. pbp 22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Iostn (talk) 11:12, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Makkool (talk) 12:56, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 00:58, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discussion
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Remove Charles Ingram

We already have John Carpenter from Who Wants to be A Millionaire pbp 22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. pbp 22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Support removal, or possibly move to criminals. Makkool (talk) 12:56, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. We don't need a gameshow contestant. J947 ‡ edits 05:34, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
  1. Ingram has both more pageviews and interwikis than John Carpenter (game show contestant) Iostn (talk) 11:12, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    But he shouldn't be listed here with game show hosts. Makkool (talk) 12:56, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I am open to removing Carpenter as well. pbp 16:58, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Discussion

Remove Pat Kenny

PASSED
Removed 4-0. Makkool (talk) 15:28, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Only six interwikis. pbp 22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. pbp 22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 12:56, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. SailorGardevoir (talk) 00:58, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discussion
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Remove Jeremy Kyle

PASSED
Removed 4-0. Makkool (talk) 15:28, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Only eight interwikis. pbp 22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. pbp 22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 12:56, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. SailorGardevoir (talk) 00:58, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discussion
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Remove John McCririck

PASSED
Removed 4-0. Makkool (talk) 15:28, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Only three interwikis. pbp 22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. pbp 22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 12:56, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. SailorGardevoir (talk) 00:58, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discussion
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Remove John Noakes

PASSED
Removed 4-0. Makkool (talk) 15:28, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Only five interwikis. pbp 22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. pbp 22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 12:56, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. SailorGardevoir (talk) 00:58, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discussion
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Remove Des O'Connor

Support
  1. pbp 22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 12:56, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Just nine interwikis. SailorGardevoir (talk) 00:58, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discussion

Remove Michael Parkinson

Support
  1. pbp 22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
  1. Why? Iostn (talk) 11:12, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. "the great British talkshow host" Makkool (talk) 12:56, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Discussion

Remove Gerry Ryan

PASSED
Removed 4-0. Makkool (talk) 15:28, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Just three interwikis. pbp 22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. pbp 22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 12:56, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. SailorGardevoir (talk) 00:58, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discussion
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Remove Frank Skinner

PASSED
Removed 4-0. Makkool (talk) 15:28, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Only five interwikis. pbp 22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. pbp 22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 12:56, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. SailorGardevoir (talk) 00:58, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discussion
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Remove Alan Titchmarsh

PASSED
Removed 4-0. Makkool (talk) 15:28, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Only four interwikis. pbp 22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. pbp 22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 12:56, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. SailorGardevoir (talk) 00:58, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discussion
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Remove Ryan Tubridy

PASSED
Removed 4-0. Makkool (talk) 15:28, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Just one interwiki. pbp 22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. pbp 22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 12:56, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. SailorGardevoir (talk) 00:58, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discussion
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Remove Denise Welch

PASSED
Removed 4-0. Makkool (talk) 15:28, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Just six interwikis. pbp 22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. pbp 22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 12:56, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. SailorGardevoir (talk) 00:58, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discussion
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Remove Alan Whicker

PASSED
Removed 4-0. Makkool (talk) 15:28, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Just seven interwikis. pbp 22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. pbp 22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 12:56, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. SailorGardevoir (talk) 00:58, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discussion
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Remove Richard Whiteley

PASSED
Removed 4-0. Makkool (talk) 15:28, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Just two interwikis. pbp 22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. pbp 22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 12:56, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. SailorGardevoir (talk) 00:58, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discussion
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Remove Paula Yates

Support
  1. pbp 22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 12:56, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discussion

Remove Don Burke

PASSED
Removed 4-0. Makkool (talk) 15:28, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Just two interwikis. pbp 22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. pbp 22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 12:56, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. SailorGardevoir (talk) 00:58, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discussion
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Remove Denise Drysdale

PASSED
Removed 4-0. Makkool (talk) 15:28, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Just three interwikis. pbp 22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. pbp 22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Iostn (talk) 11:12, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Makkool (talk) 12:56, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 00:58, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discussion
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Remove Bruce Gyngell

PASSED
Removed 4-0. Makkool (talk) 15:28, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

No interwiki links. pbp 22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. pbp 22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Iostn (talk) 11:12, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Makkool (talk) 12:56, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 00:58, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discussion
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Remove Kerri-Anne Kennerley

PASSED
Removed 4-0. Makkool (talk) 15:28, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Just one interwiki. pbp 22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. pbp 22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Iostn (talk) 11:12, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Makkool (talk) 12:56, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 00:58, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discussion
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Remove Gretel Killeen

PASSED
Removed 4-0. Makkool (talk) 15:28, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Just one interwiki. pbp 22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. pbp 22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 12:56, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. SailorGardevoir (talk) 00:58, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discussion
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Remove Don Lane

PASSED
Removed 4-0. Makkool (talk) 15:28, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Just three interwikis. pbp 22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. pbp 22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 12:56, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. SailorGardevoir (talk)
  4. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discussion
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Remove Ray Martin (television presenter)

PASSED
Removed 4-0. Makkool (talk) 15:28, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Just three interwikis. pbp 22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. pbp 22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 12:56, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. SailorGardevoir (talk) 00:58, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discussion
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Remove Eddie McGuire

PASSED
Removed 4-0. Makkool (talk) 15:28, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Just three interwikis. pbp 22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. pbp 22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 12:56, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. SailorGardevoir (talk) 00:58, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discussion
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Remove Bert Newton

PASSED
Removed 4-0. Makkool (talk) 15:28, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Less-notable sidekick of Graham Kennedy pbp 22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. pbp 22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 12:56, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. SailorGardevoir (talk) 00:58, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discussion
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Remove Daryl Somers

PASSED
Removed 4-0. Makkool (talk) 15:28, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Just a single interwiki link. pbp 22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. pbp 22:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 12:56, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. SailorGardevoir (talk) 00:58, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discussion
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Remove some pre-modern scientists

I'm just going to make a giant block request for this one. The scientists I'm about to list either have single-digit interwikis, stubs, or both. NOTE: IW = interwikis, P=Paragraphs

  1. Agathodaemon (alchemist)  5 (2IW and 3P)
  2. Aglaonice  5 (3P)
  3. Ahmes  5 (1P)
  4. Callippus  5 (4P)
  5. Cleopatra the Physician  5 (4IW and 4P)
  6. Du Shi  5 (8IW)
  7. Menaechmus  5 (6P)
  8. Pandrosion  5 (5P)
  9. Pingala  5 (4P)
  10. Pseudo-Democritus  5 (3IW)
  11. Tapputi  5 (3P)
  12. Zhang Zhongjing  5 (6P)
  13. Adelle of the Saracens  5 (3IW and 4P)
  14. Anthemius of Tralles  5 (6P)
  15. Dobrodeia of Kiev  5 (4P)
  16. Ibn Sahl (mathematician)  5 (4P)
  17. Al-ʻIjliyyah  5 (Throwing this in because almost all of the paragraphs consists of a single sentence.)
  18. Jia Xian  5 (9IW and 3P)
  19. Mahāvīra (mathematician)  5 (4P)
  20. Qin Jiushao  5 (6P)
  21. Yang Hui  5 (6P)
  22. Zhu Shijie  5 (5P)
Support
  1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 02:16, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. λ NegativeMP1 05:13, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
  1. Keep Mahāvīra (mathematician) and Pingala at least. J947 ‡ edits 05:32, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Oppose all on principle. These kinds of block nominations completely lack nuance and end up making some wild assumptions based on very little. Take Aglaonice, for example; her article may be relatively short and underdeveloped, but she was one of the first astronomers documented to have learned the cycle of lunar eclipses, has 37 interwikis, and has had a species of moth and a crater of Venus named after her. But the nominator wants her removed because of article quality and no other assessment? --Grnrchst (talk) 14:17, 25 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The more I look at it, the worse it gets. Menaechmus, who discovered conic sections and has 29 interwikis; Tapputi, who was one of the first recorded chemists and has 24 interwikis; Zhang Zhongjing, who contributed so much to his period's medical understanding that he is held to be a sage, 23 interwikis; Anthemius of Tralles, the architect of the Hagia Sophia(!!!) and has 39 interwikis. It is astounding that these are all lumped together in a block removal proposal for no other reason than their articles aren't very long... --Grnrchst (talk) 14:43, 25 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. I agree with the above. We can't just remove biographies on the basis that they're short don't have interwikis. These articles should be based on the contribution of their respective discipline in the context of the time. The whole point of WP:VITAL isn't to document Wikipedia's best articles, but to highlight the ones which are significant in the context of history. Thus, only sound reasoning outlining specifically the contribution (or lack thereof) of each individual person should be all that is considered when removing or adding articles. I am opposed to this removal and I am opposed to this style of 'block nominations'. Idiosincrático (talk) 14:39, 25 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Discuss
  • User:Grnrchst, User:Idiosincrático: OK, first off, you guys know you can easily just say "Keep so-and-so" right? Second, the entire purpose of this project is to find globally relevant articles and bring them to at least good article quality. So yes, I do think that article quality and the amount of interwikis are good indication to judge vitality. If an article have spent most of its existence of with only a handful of paragraphs, that indicates that it's not possible to improve it. If an article has only a handful of interwikis, that indicates that it's not globally relevant. SailorGardevoir (talk) 18:46, 25 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Remove Leonid Brekhovskikh

Just five paragraphs (of which only three are actually paragraph-length) and four interwikis.

Support
  1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 03:08, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Not even 100 pageviews in the past month Iostn (talk) 00:24, 30 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

Remove Milton Sills

Suggested for removal in the Jared Leto discussion. We have too many actors, and this one does not seem vital enough to make the list.

Support
  1. As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 18:11, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Glad to see this clean up happen. Questions? four Olifanofmrtennant (she/her) 16:07, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Iostn (talk) 09:55, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. Makkool (talk) 18:16, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Neutral
Discuss

Remove Tao Lin

We still have way too many authors from the U.S. and Canada, and this guy does not seem to have had any amount of influence.

Support
  1. As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 20:19, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 18:16, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Neutral
Discuss

Remove some world musicians

I hate to say this because we do need a more global array of people for this project, but I am coming across a lot of musicians with single digit interwikis. I am going to do a block request for each section and list the people I want removed along with the amount of interwikis they have.

Remove some non-Western art musicians

  1. Turgun Alimatov (3)
  2. Min Huifen (2)
  3. Daihachi Oguchi (3)
  4. Yatsuhashi Kengyo (5)
  5. Muthiah Bhagavatar (4)
  6. Buhurizade Mustafa Itri (2)
  7. Tanburi Büyük Osman Bey (0; already being discussed)

  1. K. P. H. Notoprojo  5 (5)
  2. Michio Miyagi  5 (8)
  3. Swathi Thirunal Rama Varma  5 (8)
  4. Mei Baojiu  5 (6)
  5. Farida Parveen  5 (6)
  6. Faramarz Payvar  5 (5)

Support
  1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 01:41, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Support all Makkool (talk) 19:44, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. remove unstruck per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

Remove some religious musicians

WITHDRAWN
Withdrawn by nom. Makkool (talk) 11:15, 19 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

  1. Shlomo Carlebach (musician) (9)
  2. Debbie Friedman  5 (8)
  3. William Billings  5 (9)
  4. Raihan  5 (6)
  5. Junoon (band)  5 (8)
Support

#SailorGardevoir (talk) 01:41, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I hereby withdraw this proposal. SailorGardevoir (talk) 23:44, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  1. Keep Shlomo Carlebach ("the foremost Jewish religious songwriter of the 20th century") and Junoon ("Pakistan's and one of South Asia's most successful bands"), remove the rest. Makkool (talk) 19:44, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Remove Lord Kitchener (calypsonian)  5

Luckily for the Caribbean section, Kitchener is the only one with less than ten interwikis (4).

Support
  1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 01:41, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 19:44, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

Remove the entire klezmer sectionSwap Dave Tarras with Giora Feidman

I'm already requesting the removal of Josef Gusikov, but the other two (Naftule Brandwein  5 and Dave Tarras  5) also have single digit interwikis (9 and 3 respectively). On second thought, I am just going to nominate Tarras for removal. To keep Brandwein from being lonely, I am also going to advocate adding Giora Feidman. I think Fiedman the only klezmer musician with double-digit interwiki figures.

Support
  1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 01:41, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Support swap Makkool (talk) 19:44, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

@User:Makkool, proposal has been changed. SailorGardevoir (talk) 23:44, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Remove some non-English pop musicians

  1. Phyu Phyu Kyaw Thein (2)
  2. Azam Khan (singer)  5 (3)
  3. Vital Signs (band)  5 (3)
  4. Lee Mi-ja (4)
  5. Awie (5)
  6. KRU (2)
  7. Sharifah Aini (3)
  8. Sarantuya (7)
  9. Muboraksho Mirzoshoyev (8)
  10. Gru (rapper) (2)
  11. W. D. Amaradeva (4)
  12. Clarence Wijewardena (2)
  13. APO Hiking Society  5 (3)

  1. Gong Qiuxia  5 (9)
  2. Teng Yu-hsien  5 (7)
  3. Boudewijn de Groot  5 (8)
  4. Irakli Charkviani  5 (7)
  5. Kaveret  5 (9)
  6. Vali Rácz  5 (6)
  7. Abrar-ul-Haq  5 (8)
  8. Narayan Gopal  5 (9)
  9. Aruna Lama  5 (8)
  10. Dewa 19  5 (8)
  11. Didi Kempot  5 (9)
  12. Koes Plus  5 (5)
  13. Ichirō Fujiyama  5 (6)
  14. Michiya Mihashi  5 (8)
  15. Pink Lady (duo)  5 (9)
  16. The Stalin  5 (7)
  17. Ros Serey Sothea  5 (9)
  18. Drunken Tiger  5 (8)
  19. Shin Joong-hyun  5 (7)
  20. Cartola  5 (9)
  21. Lydia Mendoza  5 (6)
  22. Menudo (group)  5 (5)
  23. Felipe Pinglo Alva (9)
  24. Rodrigo (musician)  5 (7)
  25. Vikingarna (band)  5 (8)
  26. Eraserheads  5 (6)

Support
  1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 01:41, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Keep APO Hiking Society, Vital Signs and Azam Khan - remove the rest. Makkool (talk) 19:44, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

Remove some African musicians

  1. Christy Essien-Igbokwe (6)
  2. Mahmoud Guinia (4)
  3. Lady Jaydee (3)
  4. Le Grand Kallé (4)
  5. E. T. Mensah (3)
  6. Daniel Owino Misiani (3)
  7. Ayub Ogada (6)
  8. Wazimbo (3)

  1. Ayinde Barrister  5 (6)
  2. Diamond Platnumz  5 (9)
  3. Eusèbe Jaojoby  5 (7)
  4. Jua Cali  5 (5)
  5. Mamady Keïta  5 (7)
  6. Tunde King  5 (5)
  7. Mahotella Queens  5 (8)
  8. Thomas Mapfumo  5 (9)
  9. Siti binti Saad  5 (9)
  10. Tilahun Gessesse  5 (7)
  11. Lourdes Van-Dúnem  5 (8)

Support
  1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 01:41, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Support all. Makkool (talk) 19:44, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. remove unstruck per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

General comments

I really do not understand why this is being judged using interwikis as the sole metric for measuring vitality, not to mention that bloc nominations have been criticised many times before for being hard to implement on voting. Another massive problem with this is for the "African popular music" section, where you are using interwiki links to measure vitality while African languages are notorious for being underrepresented and thus automatically have a disadvantage if you are using those to measure vitality - as can be seen by the fact that the number of those nominated for removal equals half the entire articles listed in the section. As such I'm effectively opposing all of these proposals in the current state, at least until they are being looked at individually. Iostn (talk) 10:02, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I expressed concerns for this type of viewpoint on a different proposal on a different talk page. Per WP:SYSBIAS, it is proven that Wikipedia has a general bias against developing nations and leaves their articles generally less developed. This also applies to whether or not the articles exist on other language Wikipedias. Also speaking from that viewpoint, some of these proposals would leave Western musicians, an already messy session, vastly over-represented. I can get behind using interwikis for some proposals (it made sense for stuff like the television hosts), but it just doesn't make sense her per the SYSBIAS essay. λ NegativeMP1 16:48, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Where have bloc nominations been criticised? I don't take a stand on systemic bias, but if we intend to make any progress in cutting the sections over-quota by over a hundred articles, we need to think of new ideas than having just individual nominations. Makkool (talk) 17:05, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I can agree with you on that, as I do think massive cuts are needed, but my concern is more or less that we should be cautious, and interwikis may not be the best metric for 100% of nominations. λ NegativeMP1 18:11, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Regardless of country of origin, having 0 or 1 interwikis is a red flag. If you want to compensate for underrepresentation of Africans, maybe the rule of thumb should be 5 interwikis in the Third World and 10 in the First... pbp 23:02, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@User:Makkool, @Iostn, @User:NegativeMP1: After much thought, I decided to withdraw my nominations for mostly everyone with more than five interwikis due to the issues brought up (so just close my religious section request). I am also withdrawing my nominations for K. P. H. Notoprojo (he is probably the biggest name in gamelan), Faramarz Payvar (his Persian article kind of indicates he is a major Persian traditional musician), Koes Plus (six of their albums are on Rolling Stone Indonesia's 150 Greatest Indonesian Albums of All Time list), Menudo (one of the biggest boy bands), Jua Cali (represents genge), and Tunde King (founder of jùjú music). I'm still going to nominate those with less than five interwikis (that's still too small to be on here), along with Yatsuhashi Kengyo (stub), Awie (does not have at Rate Your Music page, although his previous band Wings does have one), Sarantuya (stub), Muboraksho Mirzoshoyev (does not have at Rate Your Music page), Christy Essien-Igbokwe (she was originally listed under the music industry figures for reasons I just can't find), and Ayub Ogada (I'm not seeing anything that makes him vital). SailorGardevoir (talk) 23:44, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Remove Harry Glicken

Hate to remove a featured article, but he only has six interwikis.

Support
  1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 01:45, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. No indication of vitality. QuicoleJR (talk) 12:10, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. His mentor David A. Johnston  5 was much more vital than him. Makkool (talk) 06:01, 20 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

Remove Bruce C. Heezen

Stub. He did worked with Marie Tharp  4 and he does have a ship named after him, but I'm not sure if his article can be improved.

Support
  1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 03:15, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Low pageviews Iostn (talk) 00:24, 30 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

Add Nicolas Appert

Known as the father of food science. Invented airtight food preservation, has 84 interwikis, and is the only person rated top-importance in the Food Wikiproject.

Support
  1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 20:16, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Per nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 20:58, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Makkool (talk) 06:01, 20 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. Iostn (talk) 00:24, 30 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

Add Solomon Linda

To make up for the drastic cuts I was proposing for the African music section, here's the original singer/writer for The Lion Sleeps Tonight  5.

Support
  1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 00:43, 19 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 06:01, 20 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Iostn (talk) 00:24, 30 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

Add Yoshiko Yamaguchi

She's the only Seven Great Singing Stars we don't have on here. I understand the unusual conditions regarding her, but she has the second highest amount of interwikis amongst the seven.

Support
  1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 00:55, 19 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 06:01, 20 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Iostn (talk) 00:24, 30 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

Swap Kander and Ebb  5 with John Kander and Fred Ebb

Other than four other Wikipedias, no one has bothered to write a page on the songwriter pairing itself. Kander and Ebb themselves at least have 18 and 15 interwikis respectively, however.

Support
  1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 01:05, 19 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

Swap Bryan brothers  5 with Bob Bryan and Mike Bryan

Same thing as above, although at least the article about this pair has at least nine interwikis. (Bob and Mike themselves have 36 and 34.) Admittedly, Kander and Ebb at least makes up for that for not treating the article on their pairing as the main one.

Support
  1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 01:24, 19 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
  1. They are known for their doubles career and not for their individual accomplishments. Aurangzebra (talk) 13:36, 22 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Discuss

Remove Christian Samuel Weiss

Only three paragraphs.

Support
  1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 01:57, 19 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

Remove Harry Page Woodward

I don't even get how he got on here. Even ignoring that he only has three paragraphs and two interwikis, there's nothing that indicates any vitality whatsoever.

Support
  1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 06:04, 19 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 06:01, 20 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Would not even make a hypothetical VA6. Should not be listed. QuicoleJR (talk) 12:23, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

Remove Vytautas Kernagis

He was not one of the world musicians I wanted to remove, but yeah his page is a stub. I took a look at his Lithuanian page and it's not much longer.

Support
  1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 19:22, 19 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 06:01, 20 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Doesn't seem to have any noteworthy impact. λ NegativeMP1 06:15, 21 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. Iostn (talk) 00:24, 30 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  5. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

Remove Billie Eilish  5

When it comes to vitality, I think a music artist like this should only be listed if they have left a truly significant long term impact to their field of work, rather than being a popularity contest. And at present, Billie, an artist with only nine years of activity, is yet to leave any long term impact, and her article doesn't even have a legacy/cultural impact section. Her accolades, popularity, and acclaim are irrelevant if they hold no weight. While she certainly has potential, this listing feels like WP:RECENTISM, and possibly Americentrism. We're also over quota in this section. I say we remove her (and many other yet-to-be-nominated artists with dubious legacies) now, and reassess at a later point.

Support
  1. As nom. λ NegativeMP1 23:09, 20 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 06:01, 21 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Per nominator. The Blue Rider 16:48, 21 June 2024 (UTC)][reply]
  4. Support per nominator. I would like to see a formal rule put into place in terms of number of years active and impact though, and we can drop all the people who aren't within that span to be consistent.GeogSage (⚔Chat?⚔) 16:52, 21 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Likely not something that'd be determined during this discussion, but my personal vote for a rule like that would be twenty years, save for a few special cases like Taylor Swift  4. λ NegativeMP1 23:06, 21 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
  1. This is a similar case to the Weeknd (which has had a lot of opposition to his removal), where I think a lot of voting patterns have become overtly counter-recentist which is only a hindrance in covering influential recent phenomena. Billie Eilish has been the most viewed page on a person born since 2000 continuously since August 2019, and by a large margin, which does not indicate someone who is likely to disappear any time soon. Iostn (talk) 00:24, 30 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Per Iost Kevinishere15 (talk) 04:27, 30 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Per Iostn. Also it feels like anytime she releases something, she gets an award. SailorGardevoir (talk) 08:23, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Neutral
Discuss

Remove Tunka Manin

I hate to say this, but I think the Ghana Empire  4 is just going to have to be one of those countries where we don't list any of its leaders. Only three paragraphs and three interwikis.

Support
  1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 07:53, 21 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 05:59, 22 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Iostn (talk) 00:24, 30 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

Remove John Luther Long

Wrote one decently popular short story that inspired a few other works. I could maybe see including the story, although even that would be a stretch, but this guy has no reason to be on the list, especially when we have this many modern American/Canadian authors. Only 8 interwikis.

Support
  1. As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 15:01, 21 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 05:59, 22 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. SailorGardevoir (talk) 06:07, 22 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Neutral
Discuss

Remove KondZilla

I do want someone to represent funk carioca, and he does look like he has a pretty big YouTube career, but he only has four interwikis.

Support
  1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 21:41, 21 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 05:59, 22 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

Remove Anangabhima Deva III and Suhungmung

Both figures have only three interwikis.

Support
  1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 05:19, 22 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 05:59, 22 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Discuss
Oppose

Remove Gyalsey Tenzin Rabgye

Stub. We also have Ngawang Namgyal  5 on here, who is probably the only Bhutanese figure we need for this period.

Support
  1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 08:02, 22 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 12:50, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Low page views, and ruler of a country that to this day has a population of under a million Iostn (talk) 00:24, 30 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

Remove Lakandula  5

Only four interwikis.

Support
  1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 23:13, 22 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 12:50, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
  1. Appears to be a significant pre-colonial ruler who is still commemorated today in the Philippines in the present day, interwikis are not a great way of measuring vitality for something as underrepresnted as pre-colonial historical figures in the Global South Iostn (talk) 00:24, 30 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. per above Makkool (talk) 07:19, 30 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Discuss

Remove Dua Lipa

For basically the exact same reasons as why I proposed Billie Eilish for removal from this list. Beyond some listings from blogs, a few awards, wax statues and an increase in rates of babies named after her (how the hell are these considered "legacy" / "impact"??), she's had no proven long term impact on the music industry yet and her career only spans a decade. This listing is blatant WP:RECENTISM in a section currently over quota. Same as with Billie, if this impact changes in the future, we can always revisit.

Support
  1. As nom. λ NegativeMP1 01:06, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 12:50, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Neutral
Discussion

Remove The Weeknd  5

With a career only spanning 15 years and an article with no impact or legacy section to be seen, this listing appears to be RECENTISM. The only semi-fair justification for listing him would be due to the success of "Blinding Lights", but that is only one song. One song is not enough to justify considering him as one of the few hundred most important modern era artists. Same as with other remove proposals, we can always revisit if he leaves a worthy impact or legacy on the music industry.

Support
  1. Makkool (talk) 12:50, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. An obscure figure to much of the world, he is primarily known and listened to by Western audiences. Instead, we should have more representation from the Global South. He is essentially a moderately popular artist whose fame will likely fade in a few years. The Blue Rider 16:23, 26 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Do you actually believe this? Or are you just saying this because Tony wants to keep the Weeknd here while pbp finds the rationale of removing him questionable? SailorGardevoir (talk) 18:44, 26 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I think you are taking such accusations out of a magic hat. I don't follow your reasoning; what does my support have to do with Tony or pbp?! The Blue Rider 18:14, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    There is no shortage of figures already listed under "Non-English popular music". Iostn (talk)
  3. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
  1. OK, some of you have some very weird definition on what qualifies as recent. Only 15 years? That's more than enough time to judge someone on whether they're vital or not. And considering he's spent most of that 15 years as being on of the biggest pop stars on Earth, yes I would say he's vital. SailorGardevoir (talk) 09:15, 24 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    OP, I'm sorry to come across as harsh regarding your recent proposals. I just don't like how people are acting like we need a full generation to judge the vitality of something. The Peter Thiel proposal got rejected (much too soon personally, since it was a 3-1 decision in favor of adding him, and was closed only a month after the last comment) because someone felt he was too recent, even though he's been a major figure since 1998. SailorGardevoir (talk) 09:15, 24 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I feel like that "generation" (which I specifically elsewhere gave room for special exceptions, if they truly proved themselves) is actually essential to determine whether or not something is vital. Especially when we're drastically overquota in this section. I guess it could be lower than 15 years, but there needs to be some sort of general cutoff or criteria if we plan on making this section reasonable. And I'm uncertain if The Weeknd or several other artists would meet whatever that criteria could be, even if it's not mine. λ NegativeMP1 16:06, 24 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The Beatles' first hit was in 1962 and they broke up in 1970. Should we remove THEM because they only lasted eight years? Career length is the wrong metric for musicians. They should either be measured by:
    1. Popularity (#1 hits, gold records, ticket sales at concerts...), or
    2. Acclaim (winning a lifetime achievement award or several competitive awards)
    pbp 15:46, 25 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Comparing the most influential band of all time to a singer we can't assess the industry impact of yet outside of popularity is certainly an interesting approach. In no world would I ever call for the removal of bands like that, or even shorter lasting ones like Nirvana (band)  4. It should have been obvious that I meant fifteen years after the career started, even if the act ended. And no, legacy and maybe acclaim (if a legacy can back it up) should almost ALWAYS come over popularity, unless that popularity is long lasting. λ NegativeMP1 03:21, 26 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. 'Strong Oppose Generational.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 05:53, 25 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Iostn (talk) 00:24, 30 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Neutral
Discussion

I was going to say something similar: I'm not sure whether or not the Weeknd belongs on this list, but the OP's rationale is unconvincing. Most vital bios, musician or otherwise's, period of vitality is less than 15 years. pbp 12:10, 24 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Remove Joan Armatrading

I don't see anything at all to indicate vitality. No Grammies, no #1 single or album, nothing.

Support
  1. pbp 19:48, 25 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 19:54, 25 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. I think she was just put on here to fill up the Caribbean section, which as I mentioned when I moved her to the general pop section, she did not fit beyond being born there. SailorGardevoir (talk) 20:40, 25 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discussion

Remove Al Bowlly

Maybe it's because his article's poorly written, but I'm not seeing enough evidence that he's VA5. Only 11 interwikis which is underwhelming for a pop figure. pbp 19:48, 25 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. pbp 19:48, 25 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 19:54, 25 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. I think he's the biggest name in British dance band? But yeah, just remove him. SailorGardevoir (talk) 20:40, 25 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discussion

Remove The Shirelles  5

Doesn't have the acclaim of some of the other groups on here. pbp 19:48, 25 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. pbp 19:48, 25 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 19:54, 25 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discussion

On the one hand, they recorded "Will You Love Me Tomorrow" and "Tonight's the Night". On the other hand, they were not as big as The Supremes or as critically loved as The Ronettes. Neutral overall. SailorGardevoir (talk) 20:40, 25 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Remove The Wiggles  5

Very little chart success in Australia and almost none outside of it. pbp 19:48, 25 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. pbp 19:48, 25 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
  1. The article demonstates their influence well. Children's music is a genre where vitality doesn't translate well to chart success. We should also list some other children's music artist besides Alvin and the Chipmunks. Makkool (talk) 19:54, 25 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Per Makkool. If we're judging solely within the context of children's music, they're the biggest act of all time. SailorGardevoir (talk) 20:40, 25 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Iostn (talk) 00:24, 30 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Discussion

pbp 19:48, 25 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Remove Francis II of France

Only ruled for one year. Was basically just a pawn for his mother.

Support
  1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 00:40, 26 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

US actors removals

These were suggested above in the Casey Affleck / Jared Leto proposal, which just passed. I'll open them up for discussion, where we could also test the criteria to include an actor in V5. Makkool (talk) 23:06, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Remove Rami Malek

Could he be too recent new actor where it's not clear if his career will be vital? He's an Academy Award winner though.

Support
  1. I think there should be more than one Academy Award to be automatically vital. Makkool (talk) 23:06, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

Remove Forest Whitaker

An esteemed character actor, whose also an Academy Award winner. Although most of his acclaim is from a role in one specific film, The Last King of Scotland.

Support
  1. I think there should be more than one Academy Award to be automatically vital. Makkool (talk) 23:06, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
  1. He's a prominent black actor. SailorGardevoir (talk) 05:33, 28 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Discuss

Remove Zac Efron

Star of a hit franchise, High School Musical, and now has a career doing character roles. No major awards.

Support
  1. No basis for vitality Makkool (talk) 23:06, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Is High School Musical even vital? SailorGardevoir (talk) 05:33, 28 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. pbp 02:58, 4 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

Remove Chris Cooper

Another esteemed character actor, who's an Academy Award winner.

Support
  1. I think there should be more than one Academy Award to be automatically vital. Makkool (talk) 23:06, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. SailorGardevoir (talk) 05:33, 28 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. As the person who first brought this up Iostn (talk) 00:24, 30 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

Remove James Franco

Golden Globe winner, but his career seems to have petered out because of sexual misconduct allegations.

Support
  1. Only an Academy Award nomination. Makkool (talk) 23:06, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. pbp 02:58, 4 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

Remove Seth Rogen  5

Golden Globe nominations. Has starred in popular comedies, but it might be too early to say anything about his legacy in film comedy.

Support
  1. Support for now Makkool (talk) 23:06, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
  1. He is way too big to be removed. SailorGardevoir (talk) 05:33, 28 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Iostn (talk) 00:24, 30 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Discuss

Remove Lady Jane Grey

Unlike Empress Matilda, whose claim to the throne lasted for years, Grey's claim to the throne only lasted for nine days.

Support
  1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 05:58, 28 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 07:19, 30 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

Remove some British Prime Ministers

These PMs only had the position for about a year or so.

Remove Spencer Compton, 1st Earl of Wilmington

Only about seventeen months.

Support
  1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 21:02, 28 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 07:19, 30 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

Remove William Cavendish, 4th Duke of Devonshire

Only seven months.

Support
  1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 23:25, 28 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 07:19, 30 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

Remove John Stuart, 3rd Earl of Bute

Only about eleven months.

Support
  1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 00:39, 29 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 07:19, 30 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

Remove Charles Watson-Wentworth, 2nd Marquess of Rockingham

Only has an accumulated tenure of fifteen months.

Support
  1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 02:22, 29 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 07:19, 30 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

Remove Augustus FitzRoy, 3rd Duke of Grafton

Only about fifteen months.

Support
  1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 05:45, 29 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 07:19, 30 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

Remove William Petty, 2nd Earl of Shelburne

Only about eight months.

Support
  1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 06:13, 29 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Makkool (talk) 07:19, 30 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

Add Abdel Fattah al-Burhan

Head of state of Sudan since 2019. Leads the Sudanese Armed Forces (SAF) against the Rapid Support Forces (RSF) in the ongoing War in Sudan. He also botched the Sudanese transition to democracy.

Support
  1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 06:12, 29 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

Add Joseph Kasa-Vubu

First President of the Democratic Republic of the Congo (from only five today), serving from 1960 to 1965. His tensions with Patrice Lumumba  4 were one of the causes of the Congo Crisis  5. Also, the DRC has 105 million people and only 4 politicians.

Support
  1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 06:12, 29 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Iostn (talk) 00:24, 30 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. SailorGardevoir (talk) 08:12, 30 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

Add Friedrich Ebert

He is sometimes viewed as the world’s first social democratic head of state and one of the only three “real” Presidents of Germany from 1918 to 1945. His legacy is complex and controversial, particularly concerning the crises that led to Hitler's rise to power.

Support
  1. As nominator. To politicians. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 06:12, 29 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Iostn (talk) 00:24, 30 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

Add Georgi Plekhanov

Known as “the father of Russian Marxism”, he was undeniably an immense influence on the Bolsheviks, who gave him the rare distinction of admiring him despite his misgivings towards them.

Support
  1. As nominator. To revolutionaries. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 06:12, 29 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Iostn (talk) 00:24, 30 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

Add Sylvia Pankhurst

Arguably a more effective activist than her mother, Emmeline Pankhurst  4, her work was characterized by a commitment to what we would today call intersectionality. Focusing on class and gender, she was one of the leading European figures for decolonization and was active on three continents.

Support
  1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 06:12, 29 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Surprised there isn't an article on the Pankhurst family Iostn (talk) 00:24, 30 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. The pre-eminent figure of the early British communist movement and very influential in soliciting allied support for Ethiopia. 34 interwikis, averages 245 page views per day. --Grnrchst (talk) 09:54, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

Add Nadezhda Krupskaya

Russian revolutionary who played an important role in the October Revolution  5 and as an architect of the early Soviet system, particularly education and women’s rights.

Support
  1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 06:12, 29 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Iostn (talk) 00:24, 30 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

Add Sophus Lie

Norwegian mathematician best known for his contributions to Lie algebra  5s and Lie group  5s, named after him.

Support
  1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 06:12, 29 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

Remove Honoré I, Lord of Monaco

There's been rumbling around here regarding the ratio of the population of a country and the amount of leaders that we made vital. I should note that Monaco has nine people on here despite having a population of less than 40k. I'm going to nominate this guy; I'm just not seeing anything that would make him vital.

Support
  1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 04:17, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

Remove Adrian Lamo  5

Other than exposing Chelsea Manning  5, I cant really think of a reason to keep him here. He hacked a bunch of high-profile companies, but I don't think that enough to make him vital.

Support
  1. 49p (talk) 17:33, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

Remove Tron (hacker)

Other than maybe his naming controversy, I don't think he's vital. We have too many phreakers in this list. I don't think he's the notable levels of John Draper  5 and I never heard of his name.

Support
  1. 49p (talk) 17:37, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

Add Weezer  5

Not sure why these guys arent listed? Weezer (Blue Album) and Pinkerton (album) are considered to one of the greatest album of 1990s. Not to mention, but Pinkerton (album) is extremely known to be influential in Emo  5 and Alternative rock  5. I even think Pinkerton is possibly enough on its own to be vital. I guess these guys are ignored because popularity ≠ vitality, but I think they have a chance here.

Support
  1. 49p (talk) 17:50, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. I could also see a case for Pinkerton being vital, since it alone seems to have been decently influential, has a lot of post-release acclaim, and a perfect 100 on Metacritic. λ NegativeMP1 02:31, 4 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

Add Bad Brains

Known for influencing Foo Fighters  5, Beastie Boys  5, Rage Against the Machine, Red Hot Chili Peppers  5 etc. Known for combining Reggae  4 with Hardcore punk  5 and Alternative metal. It is also known for being a Rastafari  4 band, and one of the earliest Hardcore punk  5 pioneers.

Support
  1. 49p (talk) 06:46, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
  1. Not a well-known band and some of the bands they've influenced are likely to also be removed pbp 13:25, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    What do you mean by well-known? Do you mean mainstream? Sure, but there's a bunch of bands we list that aren't really "mainstream", but defining for the genre. For bands they've influenced, I guess you're right here. However, there's pretty clear bands that are definitely vital like Guns N' Roses  5 or Nirvana (band)  4, so the claim isn't really lost.
    I think Bad Brains are vital in the same reason on why we list Black Flag (band)  5, Minor Threat  5, or Dead Kennedys  5. Is there something that I'm missing to why they aren't vital? 49p (talk) 02:40, 7 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Musicians and bands is very bloated right now and the bands that didn't achieve long-term success or have many chart-topping hits are either not going to be removed or not going to be added in the first place pbp 13:08, 7 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Discuss

Remove Agüeybaná II and Cunhambebe

Both only have three interwikis. Wish I can think of another historical native Brazilian leader to replace the latter, but I can't. The Taíno still have Hatuey  5 though.

Support
  1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 06:59, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
  1. We should probably have more Native American leaders, not fewer pbp 13:24, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Discuss

Remove Minor Threat

Band was only active for three years and didn't have any significant chart-toppers during that time. pbp 13:06, 7 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. pbp 13:06, 7 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. A very minor band (no pun intended) that isn't relevant to the history/concept of modern music. λ NegativeMP1 18:36, 7 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
  1. Very influential band to hardcore punk and the larger punk subculture. Makkool (talk) 20:12, 7 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Pretty much one the biggest faces of hardcore punk. Punk bands, especially hardcore punk bands, are rarely gonna hit chart-toppers. They're usually boom and bust bands, especially in the 80s. 49p (talk) 05:48, 10 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. "Didn't have any significant chart-toppers?" Some musicians might be vital based on chart success, but when it comes to genres like hardcore punk that's a horrible way to judge the importance of someone. Hardcore punks don't just rarely chart, they go out their way to make sure they don't break in into the mainstream. SailorGardevoir (talk) 04:04, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Add Edmund Andros

Think we can have one more colonial American administrator. Rated high-importance on a lot of WikiProjects, he was the Governor of New York for nine years, the Governor of Virginia for almost six years, and the Governor of Maryland for a couple of months. But what makes him vital in my opinion is his role as the Royal Governor of the Dominion of New England, where he pissed off everyone so much that he was immediately overthrown once word of the Glorious Revolution reach the colonies.

Support
  1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 21:03, 7 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

I'm 50/50 on this one. Were I listing American colonial figures close to VA5 but not there (call it VA5.5 if you will), Andros is one of the omissions; so are the Calverts, James Oglethorpe and Peter Stuyvesant (the latter an interesting one because a) New York is currently the largest of the 13 former colonies, and b) Stuyvesant would be the only non-British colonial figure on the list.) This also seems to fly somewhat in the face of when, earlier this year, we removed quite a few Usonian American politicians, some of whom have as good or better claim to this spot. Those removals would also suggest against a consensus for more Usonian pbp 03:26, 8 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Add Willie O'Ree

First black National Hockey League player. Although not the first person of color in the NHL, O'Ree is widely regarded as the "Jackie Robinson of hockey".

Would be added to Wikipedia:Vital articles/Level/5/People/Sports figures#Wingers.

Support
  1. As nom. B3251(talk) 21:43, 8 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

Add Keir Starmer

New UK prime minister.

Support
  1. As nom. Kevinishere15 (talk) 21:50, 8 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

If he lasts into 2025... pbp 01:39, 9 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Add Vito Volterra

Regarded as a founder of Functional analysis  4. Known for multiple equations, including Lotka–Volterra equations  5.

Support
  1. As nom. B3251(talk) 02:58, 10 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

Swap Leah Keshet with D'Arcy Wentworth Thompson

Thompson is far more notable under the topic of mathematical and theoretical biology. Well known for On Growth and Form, his work has influenced incredibly notable academics including Alan Turing  3, Claude Lévi-Strauss  4, Le Corbusier  4, and Ludwig Mies van der Rohe  4.

Support
  1. As nom. B3251(talk) 03:12, 10 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

Swap Florence La Badie with Rachel McAdams

Plenty of more notable Canadian actresses. Proposing a swap with Rachel McAdams so that a modern Canadian actress can be added, which, as far as I'm aware, we don't have yet.

Support
  1. As nom. B3251(talk) 03:59, 10 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Support remove for now Makkool (talk) 11:31, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

Add Elliot Page

Although Page has not won an Academy Award/BAFTA like some other actors listed, Page is unarguably one of the most notable transgender actors and beats plenty of other listed actors in terms of notability.

Support
  1. As nom. B3251(talk) 04:18, 10 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. SailorGardevoir (talk) 05:34, 10 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
  1. I am tentatively here because I feel that he hasn't done a huge amount since publicly coming out in 2020. Most of his success was when he was not yet publicly transgender. starship.paint (RUN) 14:29, 10 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. per starship.paint. I can see him becoming VA5 at some point but not just yet. Aurangzebra (talk) 23:01, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Discuss

Remove Gosamaru

Barely a start article. Only three interwikis.

Support
  1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 05:36, 10 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 23:01, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 04:22, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

Add Peter Mansbridge

Broadcast journalists and commentators is pretty American/Australian-centric at the moment, with most of the 80 articles listed being from either of the two countries. There currently isn't a Canadian/Canadian-based broadcast journalist in this category and I feel that Mansbridge is probably the most notable of them. To justify the lack of interwikis, many other journalists currently listed in this category also don't have much interwikis either.

Support
  1. As nom. B3251(talk) 16:50, 10 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Long career at the head of a major network, lots of awards, and the article is rated High-Importance by WikiProject Canada. QuicoleJR (talk) 22:01, 10 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

Remove Stephen Rodefer

One interwiki.

Support
  1. As nom. B3251(talk) 17:43, 10 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. pbp 18:17, 10 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. No indication of vitality. QuicoleJR (talk) 22:06, 10 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. Makkool (talk) 11:31, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  5. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 23:02, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

Add Johnny Sins

Zero explanation needed.

Support
  1. As nom. B3251(talk) 17:43, 10 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Seemingly very popular and prolific. 40 interwikis. QuicoleJR (talk) 21:59, 10 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 22:56, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

Western writer removal proposals

Prose writers > Modern > US and Canada

Support
  1. As nom. B3251(talk) 21:32, 10 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Support pbp 15:41, 11 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Swap with The Hardy Boys for "Dixon", support removal him otherwise and for everyone else. SailorGardevoir (talk) 06:50, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  4. Support all four, as well as the swap with Hardy Boys Makkool (talk) 21:53, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  5. Support swap between Dixon and The Hardy Boys (we list Nancy Drew  5 so we should also list The Hardy Boys). Support everything else. Aurangzebra (talk) 22:59, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  6. Support removals per nom, add Hardy Boys. starship.paint (RUN) 04:22, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  7. Support swapping Dixon for The Hardy Boys because that is basically all the pen name is known for and the book series is more vital than the pen name, support the rest because I read their articles and they do not seem popular or influential enough. QuicoleJR (talk) 12:57, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

Remove Ned Brooks

Only listed as the second-longest tenured moderator of Meet the Press. That claim is unsourced, the longest tenured presenter is also only VA5, and this man does not seem to have had an influence on anything.

Support
  1. As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 22:04, 10 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 04:22, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Neutral
Discuss

Remove Roger Williams (soldier)

Only one interwiki.

Support
  1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 06:53, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 04:22, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Does not seem important enough. QuicoleJR (talk) 11:26, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

Remove Noël Jourda de Vaux

Only four interwikis.

Support
  1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 23:42, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 04:22, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

Remove John Kennedy Toole  5

We still have way too many modern American/Canadian writers (currently over 280) and this guy is seemingly one of the least important people still listed. Not every Pulitzer Prize in Fiction winner is vital (we already do not list all of them) and this guy has little else going for him. Two obscure books, published posthumously, with minimal influence. There are plenty of topics and people that I would rather list.

Support
  1. As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 12:53, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Neutral
Discuss

Film scholar additions

There is under-representation in art historians of scholars and historians focusing on film. I feel these could be essential names to list, to have more balance between different art forms in that section.

Add David Bordwell

His book Film Art "is still used as a seminal text in introductory film courses". 14 interwikis.

Support
  1. As nom. Makkool (talk) 16:26, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Neutral
Discuss

Add Laura Mulvey  5

Pioneering feminist film analyst. "Helped shift the orientation of film theory towards a psychoanalytic framework" and introduced the concept of "male gaze".

Support
  1. As nom. Makkool (talk) 16:26, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Neutral
Discuss

Add Vito Russo

Queer film theorist and author of The Celluloid Closet, "'an essential reference book' on homosexuality in the US film industry".

Support
  1. As nom. Makkool (talk) 16:26, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Neutral
Discuss

Add Manthia Diawara

African film scholar who "contributed significantly to the study of black film".

Support
  1. As nom. Makkool (talk) 16:26, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Neutral
Discuss

Add IShowSpeed

Undoubtedly the most popular 2020s internet live streamer. Has a whopping 82 interwikis, even more than other significant YouTube/internet personalities like MrBeast  5 and PewDiePie  5.

Support
  1. As nom. B3251(talk) 19:51, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Neutral
Discuss
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