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June 14

renting a house

Is there any guideline for the rental price of a house based on its value? For instance, a rule of thumb like monthly rental should be 1% of its value? Bubba73 ^{You talkin' to me?} 01:32, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

Well I googled and found that is about right [1]. Bubba73 ^{You talkin' to me?} 01:34, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

1% doesn't work in Detroit, where a house might be worth only $10K, and nobody charges only $100 for rent. StuRat (talk) 01:49, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

That's amazing, Stu. $10K wouldn't even buy you a toilet in Australia. (USians, read "bathroom".) -- ♬ Jack of Oz ♬ ^{[your turn]} 06:18, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

According to this article: [2], there are 2300 homes for sale here for $10K or less. So, move to Detroit and bring all your friends. :-) StuRat (talk) 04:52, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

I don't understand why they're not snapped up literally within minutes of hitting the market. Unless there were extremely serious structural/environmental hazard etc issues with them, why are they still unsold at that insane bargain-basement price?-- ♬ Jack of Oz ♬ ^{[your turn]} 08:41, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

Lots of reasons:

1) Lack of jobs in the area.

2) High crime rate.

3) Neighboring abandoned homes/crack houses.

4) City income tax.

5) Detroit may soon go into default, meaning they may not be able to provide basic services, like police, fire protection, and trash collection. These services are already rather "iffy".

6) It's an almost exclusively black area, and many whites would feel uncomfortable here. StuRat (talk) 16:16, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

I see. I still think that entrepreneurs are missing some golden investment opportunities, but what the hell do I know about money? Thanks. -- ♬ Jack of Oz ♬ ^{[your turn]} 02:53, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

Well, a brief perusal of Craigslist reveals that there are some cases of even less than that... but I agree there is probably a limit to that model. It doesn't imply that the model doesn't work in most situations. --Mr.98 (talk) 01:55, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

It says "after six months the rent will increse to $500.00 per month" in the ad.Anonymous.translator (talk) 02:30, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

The ratio of the value to the annual rent of the house is called "price to rent ratio". There's no agreement as to what price to rent ratios should be, and they vary a lot from place to place and from time to time. You can find statements to the effect that a price to rent ratio below 10 is a strong "buy" indicator, meaning that you can make money by buying houses and renting them out. However, in practice, the ratio below 10 is indicative of a seriously depressed market like Detroit, or a place where you find lots of renters who can't afford to buy houses at any price, possibly because they are illegal immigrants. Highly desirable markets have high price to rent ratios, sometimes as high as 30.

You can understand some of the logic behind price to rent ratios by thinking about prospective buyers, renters and investors. In a normal real estate market, price to rent ratios can't fall too low, because, at some point, it becomes possible for investors to buy up properties, to rent them out, and to make strong return on their investment. Even subtracting maintenance expenses and taxes, a price-to-rent ratio of 10 means that the investor will see about 8% annual return on his money, not including potential appreciation of the property. In the investing world, that's really good money. (Long-term U.S. government bonds currently pay less than 3% annual across the board.)

On the other hand, if it's too high, people stop buying and choose to rent instead. The buy vs. rent calculation works differently for a person who intends to live in the property, because people are willing to pay extra for living in a house that is their "own", and because they usually get to deduct mortgage interest from their taxes.

As you can see, it's a complicated story, it depends on the demographics of the area, on local taxes, on expected appreciation/depreciation of local real estate, you have to look closely to understand all the nuances.--Itinerant1 (talk) 06:13, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

This is known as the Price-to-Rent ratio (or P-R ratio), although it's usually expressed in terms of how many years rent adds up to the price of the house. According to this article, the average ratio across the US in 2010 was 18.8, meaning the average monthly rent was about 0.5% of the value of the house, but in different areas of the country the average ratio varied between 12 and 36. 59.108.42.46 (talk) 06:20, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

When I was in the residential rental business, we looked to buy houses using that very 1%-per-month rule. While the rent itself was a market factor where a landlord had little control, I could control what I bought, and if I couldn't get at least 1% of the purchase price per month in net rent, then the purchase made no economic sense to me. Bielle (talk) 06:46, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

Reformed household names

I was listening to something on NPR tonight and Ice-T was talking about how he had a criminal past and now he's legally doing pretty well for himself. So that got me thinking, who else was a criminal in early life and then reformed to become rather famous? Use your own definition of famous if you want. Basically, I'm looking for people who would be rather well known such as celebrities, authors, etc. I'd be interested in reading their articles. Thanks, Dismas|^(talk) 04:30, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

Greg Mathis of the court TV show Judge Mathis. StuRat (talk) 04:53, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

As far as rappers go, you have a shorter list to find rappers who never had any trouble with the law. StuRat (talk) 04:54, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

Tim Allen spent hard time in jail for being a drug runner. --Jayron32 05:16, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

Arthur Koestler spent time in detention in three countries: Spain, France and the UK. Later he set up the Koestler Trust to help ex-prisoners. Later still, he killed himself. -- ♬ Jack of Oz ♬ ^{[your turn]} 06:15, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

Koestler was a political prisoner in Spain, and a wartime detainee in France and the UK. I don't think he would be described as a criminal by most people. Valiantis (talk) 01:47, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

Jean Genet comes to mind. Deor (talk) 06:41, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

James Ellroy and Edward Bunker. ---Sluzzelin talk 07:00, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

Going back a bit further, there's Eugène François Vidocq. Clarityfiend (talk) 08:06, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

Stephen Fry spent three months in prison for credit card fraud when he was 17. AndrewWTaylor (talk) 08:47, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

The British actor Leslie Grantham spent ten years in jail for murder prior to his TV success. --Colapeninsula (talk) 08:57, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

Not exactly what you were looking for, but William S. Burroughs accidentally killed his wife. --Viennese Waltz 09:18, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

Merle Haggard spent some time behind bars, including San Quentin. The story goes that he decided to reform after watching Johnny Cash perform there. Cash himself had been jailed a time or two. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 12:27, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

Charles Colson, Watergate conspirator, later Christian leader and founder of Prison Fellowship Rmhermen (talk) 12:59, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

Professional basketball player Allen Iverson served time for "maiming by mob" and was sentenced to 15 years in prison at the age of 17. He was later granted clemency and his conviction overturned. (Note: I found this while looking through our article List of professional sportspeople convicted of crimes. It is sad that most of those on that list committed their crimes during or after their playing days. Perhaps this question is the start of a "counter-list" article.)    → Michael J Ⓣ Ⓒ Ⓜ 13:09, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

Baseball player Ron LeFlore, various drug charges as a youth. Was discovered by Billy Martin while playing baseball in prison.    → Michael J Ⓣ Ⓒ Ⓜ 13:19, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

Anne Perry a mystery writer now living quietly in England, was Juliet Hulme of the Parker-Hulme murder in New Zealand, an offence committed when she was 15, and for which she spent 5 years in prison, being too young for the death penalty. Bielle (talk) 15:58, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

I'm thinking of John Profumo, who became infamous in the 1960s in the UK for various activities including political corruption. After his release from prison he threw all his energies into Toynbee Hall. I'd like to think he redeemed himself somewhat. --TammyMoet (talk) 16:44, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

Profumo never went to prison! He had to resign as Minister of Defence after it emerged he'd shared a mistress with a Soviet military attaché and he'd lied about the matter in the House of Commons. He was disgraced (a minister committing adultery and lying about it was still considered genuinely disgraceful in the early 1960s) but he had committed no crime. So he wasn't a criminal and in any case, as a cabinet minister, he was clearly "famous" before the scandal. Valiantis (talk) 23:22, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

Lying to the media, adultery, unfaithfulness etc are as nothing, compared with misleading the parliament, which is an extremely grave offence in the Westminster system (and I'm sure in other legislatures too). Members are given parliamentary privilege, which means they can with impugnity say things that if said outside the house could land them in legal hot water, such as making slanderous comments about other people. The quid pro quo is that statements made in the house can't be gratuitously offensive, must not breach unparliamentary language and other standing orders, but most particularly they must in all circumstances be true, to the best knowledge of the speaker (small s). Even inadvertently making an untrue statement to the house can have serious consequences if not corrected at the earliest opportunity - let alone actively lying to the house, as Profumo did. That was his greatest blunder. His sleeping around was mildly shocking by the still pseudo-Victorian standards of the day (whereby nobody really minded what you did in private, as long as you didn't tell the public about it), but it alone would not have been his undoing. His sharing of a mistress with a Soviet diplomat was bad luck; nobody has ever suggested he engineered it in order to pass secrets to the USSR, or even knew about it before it was too late, or that any actual breach of security ever occurred. It did fatally compromise him, and there was no way he could keep his portolio of Minister for War under those circumstances, but even it would not necessarily have spelt the permanent end of his political career. He was the one who made sure of that by his decision to lie to the House of Commons. -- ♬ Jack of Oz ♬ ^{[your turn]} 02:49, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

How about Peter Robinson and Martin McGuinness? There are lots of other examples of people previously associated with political violence (or non-violent activism under totalitarian regimes) who have moved into (more-or-less) mainstream politics. 81.98.43.107 (talk) 22:11, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

George W. Bush, see Early life of George W. Bush#Alcohol use and DUI arrest, Jimmy Boyle (artist), John McVicar, Jay-Z, Malcolm X, Afrika Bambaataa, Greg Mathis and Kweisi Mfume. I got the last ones from Top 5 Criminals Who Turned Their Lives Around. CambridgeBayWeather (talk) 03:07, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

Greg Mathis was the very first answer to the OP's question. -- ♬ Jack of Oz ♬ ^{[your turn]} 04:39, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

Yep. I need to read gooder. CambridgeBayWeather (talk) 13:41, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

Australia is doing rather well for itself these days. --Jayron32 04:42, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

Touche', Stu.  :) Thanks for the links everyone! Dismas|^(talk) 04:54, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

skin care

if someone's managed to leave their skin dry and scarred and lacking sensitivity from too many burning hot showers, is there anything they can do to help it recover? I suggested something like vaseline, but I'm not sure that would help. any other ideas here?

Kitutal (talk) 14:47, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

Per the rubric at the top of the page, we don't do medical advice. This IMO falls into that category. Sorry. -Tagishsimon (talk) 15:01, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

even vaseline is medical now? ok Kitutal (talk) 15:35, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

Yup. Care of damaged skin is unambiguously medical. --Tagishsimon (talk) 15:36, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

Agreed. They need to see a doctor, and since you're not a doctor you shouldn't be advising them. Itsmejudith (talk) 15:45, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

I disagree that plain old dry skin is a medical issue, that's a cosmetics issue. But when it's scarred and lost sensitivity, then, yes, that is a medical issue. StuRat (talk) 01:58, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

and if they say they don't want to keep bothering their doctor, there's nothing I can do to help Kitutal (talk) 15:58, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

No, we cannot act as a substitute for this person's doctor. The numerous ethical and practical considerations aside, it's very strictly against our policy. I'm sorry. The only advice that we can give was (and is) to see a doctor if there are medical concerns. Falconus^{p t c} 16:11, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

In the UK, at least, talking to a pharmacist is another option, as is talking to NHS Direct. Not sure if that holds for USians (which for no good reason I presume you to be). --Tagishsimon (talk) 20:03, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

Obvious request for medical advice. Shut it down. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 22:58, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

To whom are you barking your command? -- ♬ Jack of Oz ♬ ^{[your turn]} 23:41, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

To you. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 01:47, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

What about the deck of cards?

The article Impossible bottle explains how ships, pine cones, and fruits, and pennies are done, but not sealed decks of playing cards such as the ones in the article's main picture. How do they get sealed decks of playing cards into bottles? They don't appear bent at all, though it's not an up-close picture (though one would think bending a sealed deck of cards would leave the deck pretty bent, and not actually decrease the cross-sectional area that much; the opening of the bottle in that article's picture is significantly less than what one could fold a sealed deck of cards into without permanently damaging the deck) and putting the deck around hot glass would be pretty hard to do without singing the deck at all. So what's the trick? 20.137.18.53 (talk) 16:46, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

I suspect a fake photo, probably by placing the cards behind the bottles.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 17:31, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

I think you might be right; I think that I can just make out the curve on the opposite side of the base of the bottle, meaning that the cards are not sitting on the bottom of the bottle. I'm not 100% sure, but it doesn't look right. Falconus^{p t c} 17:41, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

Turns out that is a big photo if you click on it about four times. 20.137.18.53 (talk) 17:45, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

Only the sealed wrapper is fake. First put the open wrapping in the bottle. Then drop in the 52 cards individually by curling them. Finally you have some tricky work with long pincers to close the wrapping. As a result it looks uneven in the full resolution picture at the tops of the decks. (Faking as Shantivara suspects would need the card packs to be raised somehow and introduce more refractive distortion and less even lighting than we see. DriveByWire (talk) 17:51, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

I see no reason to suppose that there are cards in those boxes. John M Baker (talk) 18:23, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

I was going to suggest that you ask the uploader of the photo, as it is their own work, but then I realized that they aren't (he/she isn't) an active user, as they only have two contributions. 71.146.10.213 (talk) 18:37, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

I don't have an answer for the "how do they do it?" question, but about the photo in our article possibly being faked: I have no idea whether that particular photo is fake or not, but our article contains this external link to a (partly commercial) website with a huge gallery of bottles where you can see photos of decks of cards and even more improbable objects like padlocks and golf balls in bottles - they have photos from various angles for some of the objects in their gallery, so it looks like it's somehow possible (although they won't say how) -- Ferkelparade π 09:28, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

Maybe they wrap the object in some heat resistant protective fabric, drop it into a wide-mouthed bottle, and then use skilled glass working to smoothly bring the opening to a much smaller neck size, then pull the protective fabric out from around the object (or not worry about the fabric and just work the glass in the case of something sturdy like a padlock). They can say truthfully all they want that the object did pass through the bottle's opening (they just don't tell you how wide the opening was at the time of passing). 20.137.18.53 (talk) 12:07, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

Um -- has anyone noted that a bottom of a bottle may have been cut off and then heated to reseal the glass (same glass content would not result in a noticeable seam)? There is no reason to believe that the person took a commercially made bottle and placed the deck in it drectly <g>. Note that glassblowers routinely adhere pieces of glass without a "seam" showing. Seems quite the easist way to do it - and one which has been done. Collect (talk) 12:25, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

I can put any object on the inside of any bottle as long as it's this bottle. DriveByWire (talk) 14:27, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

Hopsital

WP:DNFT
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
Are hospitals in Australia tended to by kangaroo nurses? 71.146.10.213 (talk) 18:21, 14 June 2012 (UTC) What? Looie496 (talk) 18:30, 14 June 2012 (UTC) Don't feed the troll. Roger (talk) 18:33, 14 June 2012 (UTC) I'm not trying to troll, I mean that I have heard a lot about kangaroos in Australia and wanted to know. (I've also heard that they have bad medical care) 71.146.10.213 (talk) 18:41, 14 June 2012 (UTC) Yes they do and the care they provide is outstanding. --Dweller (talk) 13:18, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

lost the book I created on wikipedia

I have created a book that has about 80 pages and I can no longer find it. Can you advise me how to find it please? thank You — Preceding unsigned comment added by Artboccuti (talk • contribs) 19:13, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

You could scroll up to the first time you asked this question and find the answer I provided there. --LarryMac | Talk 19:22, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

June 15

San Francisco Olympic Club History

In your history of the SF Olympic Club, it is noted that the Club sent 22 athletes to the 1924 Olympics in Paris. What were the names of those athletes and in what events did they participate? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.238.167.206 (talk) 02:25, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

I've looked at our article on the Olympic Club, and can't find any statement in the current article that makes the specific claim you mention. Are you sure it is our article you're referencing? You would find information about that year's U.S. Olympic Team in the article on the United States at the 1924 Summer Olympics, but I don't think it's likely to have the very specific piece of information you're seeking. If you can point to the page or source for your claim about 22 athletes more directly, I think we might stand a better chance of tracking down the list you're seeking. Jwrosenzweig (talk) 03:30, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

It's stated in Olympic Club Foundation and on the official club site. The OP is probably better off asking them directly. Clarityfiend (talk) 07:43, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

Apparently, a number of them were members of the U.S. rugby team; this page names Dink Templeton, George Dixon, Rudolph Scholz, and Harry Maloney. Another was the boxer Raymond Fee. So there's five, at least. Deor (talk) 08:19, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

1961 edition of Webster's Third

I would very much like to own a copy of the first edition of this dictionary. My research skills for purchasing something like this extend pretty much to eBay, which doesn't seem to have any. So my questions are such: are any of these likely to still exist in good condition? where would I go to find one? about how much would I expect to pay for one? Any help or advice will be appreciated. 67.164.156.42 (talk) 02:41, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

A little under $15 total on Abebooks (most of it shipping from the UK to the US). They're where I go for used books that are not necessarily collectibly rare but are still kind of uncommon. A lot of ex libris stuff is available there for nearly nothing. --Mr.98 (talk) 02:50, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

Or you could adjust your search to look for copies in the US and save the postage. Richard Avery (talk) 07:24, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

I didn't see any in the US that were cheaper. There are a few other listings for that specific edition but they are all more expensive than that. Here's a longer set of listings. --Mr.98 (talk) 13:05, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

uss tutuila arg 4

i was aboard the uss tutuila arg 4 -1951-1955. we were ramed by a merchant ship in norfork and went in to dry dock in baltimore ship yard. i don't remember the date, but it was sometime in the early 1950's.we were in the ship yard,a month or so.i can't find a record of that any where. respectively jack traughber. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.193.244.148 (talk) 15:01, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

Here is a log of the ship's activities, but there's no mention of this incident: [3]. StuRat (talk) 16:07, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

How to address people with former titles?

How does one address an individual such as Paul Wolfowitz within a formal setting? Wolfowitz was a former Deputy Secretary of Defense, former Ambassador, former Dean, former President of World Bank. Let us assume that he is also a retired army General. What prefix should one use to address him? Secretary Wolfowitz, Dean Wolfowitz, Dr. Wolfowitz, General Wolfowitz, etc... ? Does any of those titles supersede the others? Does it depend on the specific formal event? Thanks Acceptable (talk) 16:36, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

You would probably want to call him Ambassador Wolfowitz, but I think any reasonable attempt in that area would be fine. I would say that a high civilian title would be more likely to be used than a high military one, if a person has held both. This wasn't always so, in the 19th century it would have been the opposite. William McKinley always (until he became president) preferred the title "Major" for his Civil War service, although he was a former congressman and governor, and if you look at sources from that era, even living former presidents were called by their onetime military rank (General Benjamin Harrison, for example).--Wehwalt (talk) 16:52, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

For some previous titles, it's customary to continue to use the title after retirement. Former US Presidents are still called "Mr President", for example. Southerners, in particular, like to use their maximum military rank attained, even after they retire, with Colonel Sanders being a prime example. StuRat (talk) 16:57, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

Colonel Sanders was never a Colonel in any military service in any nation in the world. He served briefly as an enlisted man in the U.S. Army, probably never ranking higher than private. His title comes from the fact that he was a Kentucky Colonel, a purely honorary title bestowed by the State of Kentucky on its favorite sons. It has no military significance. --Jayron32 17:28, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

Only some job titles are customarily used as a prefix to a name (eg. the President of the World Bank isn't generally referred to a President X) and only some of those continue to be used after they leave the job. In the US, Ambassador is one that is used like that, as is General. I don't think Dean is generally used as a title at all (it definitely isn't in the UK, but the US does use job titles as personal titles a lot more than we do), but deans are usually tenured professors, and Professor is used as a title, even in retirement. Are Deputy Secretaries referred to by a title? Which of his titles would be used depends on the situation - in a military context, his military rank would probably be used; in a diplomatic context, his ambassadorial title would be used; in an academic context, his professorial title would be used; etc.. --Tango (talk) 18:35, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

In April in Paris, Ray Bolger plays Winthrop Putnam, who is the Assistant Secretary to the Assistant to the Undersecretary of State, and was formerly Assistant Assistant Secretary to the Assistant to the Undersecretary of State. What would his title have been had he retired at that point? -- ♬ Jack of Oz ♬ ^{[your turn]} 21:26, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

Mister. --Tango (talk) 13:48, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

What a comedown. -- ♬ Jack of Oz ♬ ^{[your turn]} 22:07, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

Aggregated Medical Treatment Data Question

I have a question regarding statistics related to the treatment of diseases in general. What are most common methods used to treat patients? i.e. How often are drugs used, how often are surgeries done, and what other sorts of treatment options do doctors frequently use (including no treatment, if possible)? North America Data would be preferable. a list of major treatment categories would also be preferable if statistics cannot be found. Thank you very much. Sazea (talk) 18:59, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

charity sports

I'm helping to organise a charity sports event soon, but we're having some trouble deciding which of a nearly infinite list of sports to host, which would be most likely to attract enough people to go ahead and which people would most like to watch. What I want right now, though, if anyone wants to help out, is a few ideas, lists of different things that could go on there, amusing, entertaining and slightly unusual things for preference, we've been thinking perhaps not all of it has to be sport based even, something creative perhaps, or really anything competitive and entertaining to watch. so, suggestions anyone?

79.66.103.132 (talk) 22:07, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

It depends on where in the world you are, and what sports are popular as "pick-up" sports. If you were in the U.S., you could organize flag football and pickup basketball and softball or kickball as common games many people play and you could generate a lot of interest in. In Canada, street hockey or shinny would probably work. In areas where association football is popular, you could organize games for that. The key is picking sports that can be organized quickly, and which require minimal equipment and set up. --Jayron32 23:24, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

How about something more like they do during picnics and such: water balloon tosses, egg relay race (carrying an egg on a spoon), three-legged race, sack race, etc. ? You might get more participation that way, because people are embarrassed to play "proper" sports if they don't know the rules or aren't good at them. StuRat (talk) 02:03, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

If you want something creative, get an art/craft area and ask attendees to draw/paint/create a representation of their favourite sport. I don't know if you're in the UK but you could hire Sumo suits or human velcro walls. Maybe involve animals - race dogs? Flyball? --TammyMoet (talk) 09:26, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

Having worked with many charity events, there are far too many variables in your question to give an accurate answer. A lot depends on the community where the event will be — some activities will be acceptable in small rural towns, while others work only in large urban areas. The age groups you hope to attract, and the affluence of people living in the area, also should play a part in your decision.    → Michael J Ⓣ Ⓒ Ⓜ 13:12, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

June 16

Maxwell House Coffee Shops of 1930's and 1940's

I cannot find any reference to the fact that almost every city of any size had at least one Maxwell House Coffee Shop by 1940 -- 31 years before StarBucks opened its first coffee shop. The concept was precisely the same as that of Starbucks. The shops were often on a street corner in the downtown business section. Like the famous AutoMats in New York City in the 1940 timeframe, the Maxwell House Coffee Shops vanished from the scene. As a serviceman in World War II, I often had a cup of coffee at the sign of the "cup with the coffee drop falling from it." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.103.127.22 (talk) 04:22, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

Are we just talking about the USA here? I've never heard of it. HiLo48 (talk) 07:57, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

Not sure what your question is, but they are not mentioned in our extensive list of coffeehouse chains. Could you be mistaken? (Still, Lyons Corner Houses used to be big in the UK, and they are not in that list either.)--Shantavira|^{feed me} 12:40, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

This short potted history of coffee in America talks about how Howard Johnson's started calling their restaurants “coffee shops” only after WW2. Here's evidence of a pre-war Maxwell House Café, but in Little Rock, Arkansas. There's one in Flat Rock, Illinois. Is it possible that the places you remember were actually called by other names, but they served Maxwell House coffee and had their signs prominently displayed, leading some people to refer to the establishments themselves by that name? -- ♬ Jack of Oz ♬ ^{[your turn]} 02:00, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

Blood types of Japanese politicians

Since blood types are an important part of Japanese society, many celebrities publicize their blood type. But does this also extend to politicians? Do Japanese politicians such as the Prime Minister also disclose their blood types? Do the members of the Imperial family also disclose their blood types? Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 09:37, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

• Apparently many Japanese people have the absurd nonscientific notion that blood type is associated with personality traits. Does any other nation share this fantasy? Edison (talk) 04:01, 17 June 2012 (UTC)
  • Ha ha! Those silly Japanese! Americans, of course, know that trying to pigeonhole all personality types into the four ABO blood groups is ridiculous; they recognize that it is far more scientific to divide people into twelve groups according to their dates of birth. This more-precise system lets newspaper readers receive carefully-calibrated daily advice about how to live their lives. Hm. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 04:27, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

King Lear Act I scene ii

Gloucester: These late eclipses in the sun and moon portend no good to us: though the wisdom of nature can reason it thus and thus, yet nature finds itself scourged by the sequent effects: love cools, friendship falls off, brothers divide: in cities, mutinies; in countries, discord; in palaces, treason; and the bond cracked ’twixt son and father. This villain of mine comes under the prediction; there’s son against father: the king falls from bias of nature; there’s father against child. We have seen the best of our time: machinations, hollowness, treachery, and all ruinous disorders, follow us disquietly to our graves. Find out this villain, Edmund; it shall lose thee nothing; do it carefully. And the noble and true-hearted Kent banished! his offence, honesty! ’Tis strange.

Exit

Edmund: This is the excellent foppery of the world, that, when we are sick in fortune,— often the surfeit of our own behavior,— we make guilty of our disasters the sun, the moon, and the stars: as if we were villains by necessity; fools by heavenly compulsion; knaves, thieves, and treachers, by spherical predominance; drunkards, liars, and adulterers, by an enforced obedience of planetary influence; and all that we are evil in, by a divine thrusting on: an admirable evasion of whoremaster man, to lay his goatish disposition to the charge of a star! My father compounded with my mother under the dragon’s tail; and my nativity was under Ursa major; so that it follows, I am rough and lecherous. Tut, I should have been that I am, had the maidenliest star in the firmament twinkled on my bastardizing. Edgar —

Enter Edgar

And pat he comes like the catastrophe of the old comedy: my cue is villanous melancholy, with a sigh like Tom o’ Bedlam. O, these eclipses do portend these divisions! fa, sol, la, mi.

--Shirt58 (talk) 04:51, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

Per the article on this delusion among many Japanese, it holds far greater sway there than astrology does in "western" countries. Belief in a correlation between blood type and personality, or the basing of relationships on this presumed compatibility issue, and bullying of persons of "inferior" blood types cannot be laughed away by comparing it to astrology. Many Japanese (and other Asians) apparently give credence to this unscientific notion. Edison (talk) 20:43, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

Articles on Episodes

Why does Wikipedia have so many articles on individual episodes of some TV series? Why don't some series have any articles on their episodes at all? Why do we even need to have individual articles on such episodes? Does it meet Wikipedia's Notability Criteria? Isn't it an unnecessary dumping of information? Can't the plot-lines of said episodes be briefly outlined in the List of XYZ Episodes page like some of the anime series have?

Well it really depends on the series in question. For example, episodes of series such as Star Trek, The Simpsons, South Park get a lot of reliable coverage, while some series' episodes don't get enough reliable coverage which is why we merge them into episode lists. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 09:37, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

See also Wikipedia:Systemic bias.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 12:42, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

It's a controversial topic. A lot of people agree with you that there should just be lists of episodes (perhaps with individual articles for highly notable episodes, such as ones that won awards). Other people don't see any harm in having lots of articles (Wikipedia is not paper). Which approach is used for a given series seems to be fairly random... --Tango (talk) 13:52, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

Some would also say that extensive plot summaries are original research and should therefore not be allowed per WP:OR. --Viennese Waltz 07:43, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

At least part of it has to do with the availability of sources. Whether you like it or not, pretty much any random episode of an animated adult-centered US-show (Simpsons, Family Guy, Futurama, etc.) is going to be commented on in blogs, magazines, news websites, etc. That provides the raw material for a good reference section. Because Wikpedia values verifiability over, say, truth or some kind of "intrinsic" value, it's very difficult to get a deletion of those articles. And justifiably, in my opinion. The ability to verify what's being written is a core value and it works hand in hand with notability. A random episode of, say, The Dick van Dyke Show just doesn't have that raw material to draw from, so it's not considered notable and anything written would fail to be verifiable. But tell you what, if you write a couple of books that discuss Rob and Laura's weekly adventures in the same kind of detail that the Simpsons gets, I'll get on writing the articles for them. :) Matt Deres (talk) 02:19, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

Spikes puncturing cars going the wrong way

Well I watched this episode of James Rolfe's You Know What's Bull**** web series, where he rants about an invention where cars driving the wrong way will have their tires punctured by spikes. However, I've never seen or heard about this invention here in the Philippines (and I've been to Makati), and reading the comments it appears that even Canadians and Europeans are unfamiliar with it. Is it only found in America? Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 09:34, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

In the UK we call it a Stinger. --TammyMoet (talk) 11:25, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

Here's a link to an American company selling them. I've seen them in car parks in the UK. DuncanHill (talk) 11:49, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

These spikes are not a new invention, at least in the U.S. I have been aware of them for as long as I have been driving, which is close to 40 years.    → Michael J Ⓣ Ⓒ Ⓜ 13:02, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

I never thought those should be legal, as they could cause injury if somebody falls on them. Yes, they have signs posted, but I can't put landmines on my property and post that, can I ? StuRat (talk) 18:52, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

Are they really sharp enough to puncture you if you fell on one? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 05:40, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

They wouldn't have to be very sharp, due to the force of the fall. I managed to cut myself falling on gravel, and that's not exactly sharp. StuRat (talk) 08:00, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

The ones I've seen actually have rounded tips for safety -- the tire damage comes entirely from forcing half the weight of the car onto a very small area. --Carnildo (talk) 01:22, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

But when you fall on them, all of your weight falls onto a very small area, and human skin is not as tough as a tire. StuRat (talk) 17:06, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

As per Wikipedia:WHAAOE, we have an article on this. I concur with StuRat's sentiments. I'm surprised something this dangerous is still being used. I thought the prevalence of ambulance chasers would have de facto outlawed it by now. Anonymous.translator (talk) 20:14, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

Not really. Despite having "one-way traffic treadles" as a synonym, the article seems to refer entirely to the police equipment used to end high-speed chases, not to fixed car-park devices. FiggyBee (talk) 21:05, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

"device used to impede or stop the movement of wheeled vehicles by puncturing their tires". That seems to cover any non-police usage as well. Anonymous.translator (talk) 21:57, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

The things in car parks aren't intended to actually puncture your tires, though. They are supposed to stop you trying to go that way because you see them and know you won't get across. With a police stinger, the goal is normally to surprise the driver so they are forced to so over the stinger, stopping them. It is very different. --Tango (talk) 01:30, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

I gotta agree with Tango. The things described in that article, and shown in the picture, are totally different from what the OP is talking about. The thing that cop has in the photo is not a one-way device at all — it punctures tires and does nothing else. A one-way spike strip is fine in one direction, puncturing in the other. I've never heard of any personal danger caused by such things. The land mine analogy is spurious; you'd have to seriously misuse a one-directional spike strip for it to cause personal harm, unlike a land mine. --Mr.98 (talk) 16:58, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

For interesting tangents see caltrop and mantrap. The second is illegal in the US. μηδείς (talk) 20:17, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

I don't think I've ever seen one in Canada. Matt Deres (talk) 02:20, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

I'm surprised they aren't remote-activated embedded on every roadway in the U.S. that's had more than one high-speed chase. Dru of Id (talk) 05:25, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

es:Túneles de Archanda

Is it allowed to use the tunel at Mount Artxanda near Bilbao with a mountainbike? Or is there a better way to get form Bilbao Airport to Bilbao by bike? -- 78.51.138.197 (talk) 11:33, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

Looking at Google Street View, there doesn't seem to be obvious signs at either end saying you can't. However, the N-637 (the road connecting to the tunnels on the airport side) seems to be a fast multilane highway which looks dangerous (and probably illegal) to cycle on, and you probably don't want to cycle down 3 km of tunnels anyway. They appear to be busy with just 2 lanes of car/bus/truck traffic. The air will also be bad and the traffic will pass fast and probably far too close for comfort. Better save your life and take one of the alternative roads around the mountain or how about roads over the mountain? - marked "Pike Bidea" and the "San Roke Bidea" on Google Maps.

That said, your bigger problem might be getting safely out of the airport. The only road seems to be the N-633, which like the N-637 looks very much like a motorway. If you want to try, take the first exit about 500 m down the N-633, onto the BI-3707 to Derio Loiu where there are quieter roads with some cycle paths that eventually lead to central Bilbao (if you cut through the airport's P2 covered parking it'll cut out several hundred metres of cycling down the shoulder). This Google maps route gives the kind of route I'm suggesting. Astronaut (talk) 19:25, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

Is there a bus that runs from the airport to the city that accepts bicycles? 69.62.243.48 (talk) 20:42, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

Penn Works Philia 1864 No 422

I have a plack from Neafie and Levey Engineers That has Penn Works Philia 1864 No 422 can you tell me hoe to researce No, 422 ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.121.90.114 (talk) 15:28, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

Start on our article about Neafie & Levy, a prominent Philadelphia shipbuilder that operated from 1844 to 1908.    → Michael J Ⓣ Ⓒ Ⓜ 08:52, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

Do you mean the ones described at Plankowner? Dru of Id (talk) 05:21, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

Water supply in high towers

I've recently read a news report on the internet of a new skyscraper that was going to be constructed. Someone claimed that the top floors of such towers is useless (or used as storage rooms) because water cannot be pumped up there because of the water pressure.
A year or two ago, we were on the tourist deck (floor 124) of the Burj Khalifa, also known at the Burj Dubai, in the UAE. As far as I can remember, there were bathrooms with running water.
So is it true what this person said? If not, how high can water be pumped? Can't you use a series of tanks in the building? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 197.68.195.197 (talk) 16:31, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

It's easily possible to pump water up to as high in a building as you like. So the "someone" is wrong. There is a seperate issue of the hight to which water can be raised by exacuating the tube through which you're sucking it up - you can only suck up as high as atmospheric pressure will push. There's no practical limit the the height you can, as it were, blow water up to. Tagishsimon (talk) 16:48, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

The article Burj Khalifa notes that its water system supplies an average of 946,000 l (250,000 USgal) of water per day through 100 km (62 mi) of pipes. The habitability of the highest floors of tall buildings may be limited not by domestic water needs but by fire regulations that demand substantial water pressure and rate of flow to combat this kind of disaster. The specification of a typical high-pressure water pump shown here is 7200 GPH, 144 PSI. DriveByWire (talk) 18:19, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

There are limits to how much pressure you would want to put in the pipes:

1) The pipes need to be thicker with increasing pressure, meaning more weight, requiring more structure to support them, etc.

2) A small leak that would only drip at low pressure can be deadly at high pressure, and will also quickly rupture the pipe.

3) Accessing water along the way is more difficult, if under high pressure.

So, at some point, they would go to a series of pumps and tanks along the way up. I'm not sure when that point is, though. StuRat (talk) 18:45, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

There is no need to have high pressure to get water high up. You can just have a series of pumps. I believe most very tall buildings have multiple water tanks at different heights so they don't have to waste energy pumping water up to the top when it's only going to be used on the 10th floor. You can just pump water into a tank midway up, and then pump it up again from there. The second pump wouldn't need any more pressure than the first. --Tango (talk) 20:32, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

I wish I'd thought to bring up each of those points. :-) StuRat (talk) 20:40, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

You mean I'm supposed to read all the way to the end? Nobody told me that... --Tango (talk) 01:17, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

I'd be wary of reading to the end of anything, Tango, particularly in polylogues. You might encounter those horrible ultimoverbalists. -- ♬ Jack of Oz ♬ ^{[your turn]} 01:23, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

A ancient mechanism like this one[4] can lift water all the way up to geosynchronous orbit. If each "bucket" was sealed it can even work beyond geosynchronous orbit. So in the hypothetical case if a pipe has limits, we can still get water up there with a bucket elevator.Anonymous.translator (talk) 20:04, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

I hope you're exaggerating for effect:

1) The material strength wouldn't support the chain more than maybe a few kilometers.

2) It would need to be sealed, or sloshing and evaporation would eliminate all the water by the top.

3) The water would also freeze and rupture the containers. StuRat (talk) 20:12, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

The ancient mechanism can be improved simply by painting "6" on each of the vessels on the left, i.e., the ones being raised. As they reach the top and start down, they become "9"s. The 50 % increase causes them to drop due to gravity, making the system self-powered. CBHA (talk) 02:23, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

questions (about "navals")

please explain the difference between a naval support activity , naval station , naval base.. thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.148.9.228 (talk) 20:06, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

I added to your title to make it actually useful. StuRat (talk) 20:08, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

As far as I can tell, in US Navy parlance;

• A Naval Station is a harbour at which navy ships are based.
• A Naval Support Activity is a naval facility but not where ships are based, for example a supply depot, administrative office or non-home port.
• A Naval Base is a large command structure with multiple facilities, possibly including one or both of the above.
• Additionally, a Naval Air Station is an airport where naval aircraft are based. These airports are not necessarily adjacent to a naval station or even near the sea.

The purposes and uses to which facilities are put does change over time, so sometimes a facility's name will reflect a historic usage rather than its current usage. FiggyBee (talk) 20:58, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

I'll amend that slightly: A Naval Station has positions where ships may be moored; there need not be any actually currently assigned there, although I can't think of an active one with no assignments, when they're slated for closure/realignment, the ships may all depart before the facities for them are unavailable. Dru of Id (talk) 05:15, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

There are also (a diminishing number) of United States Naval shipyards, such as the ones formerly in Brooklyn and Hunters Point, San Francisco. Some of them, I'm pretty sure, built naval vessels as well as maintaining and overhauling them. —— Shakescene (talk) 06:19, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

What's the best way to keep people entertained (I'm asking about at a party)?

I read that television was the most popular leisure-time activity. Is television the best way to keep people entertained (at a party)? If not, what's the best way to keep them occupied? Rebel Yeh (talk) 20:54, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

If people wanted to watch TV they'd stay home. The best way to keep people entertained at a party is to get them talking to each other. Alcohol can help, where appropriate. FiggyBee (talk) 20:59, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

In certain circumstances TV might be appropriate, as in a Superbowl Party, where US sports fans gather at the house of the friend with the best TV and pig out on food, while they watch the Superbowl. StuRat (talk) 00:11, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

Wot? No beer? HiLo48 (talk) 01:13, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

All you need is a weed eater, a live chicken, and some cool whip! You'll have a big ole time! [[5]] Dominus Vobisdu (talk) 21:21, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

What are these items for? DriveByWire (talk) 23:15, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

Music. HiLo48 (talk) 22:07, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

You need to tell us more about the invited guests to know what might be an appropriate activity. Adults ? Children ? Single ? Married ? Religious conservatives ? StuRat (talk) 00:09, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

The whole point of a party is that it is a social activity, so you want forms of entertainment that involve people interacting with each other. That might be talking, dancing, playing games, depending on the type of party and what the attendees are in to. Watching TV generally doesn't involve interaction between the viewers (with the exception of watching sport, as has already been mentioned, and also things like the Eurovision Song Contest, where there isn't necessarily much direct interaction between the viewers, but they enhance each other's experience due to the atmosphere created). --Tango (talk) 01:22, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

If you're not sure how to entertain people and want to take some pressure off yourself you should offer snack food. It distracts people and allows them to move around. You can also consider watching comedy show or the NBA Finals (since the American football season is over). CaseyPenk (talk) 03:25, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

If the party is for fellow WP editors, you might want to put up some entertaining threads. this one from last year has all sorts of comical subplots. It ends with Lar running a CU on himself to make sure he is not the puppetmaster imagined by a clown named "Jasper". It starts off when a WR editor makes some crafty edits to a BLP that has the clown and an unfortunate admin repeatedly restoring libelous info to the BLP that requires a good deal of oversighting.212.227.114.87 (talk) 00:37, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

June 17

Hundred of Onehunga

There are many references to the Hundred of Onehunga but no explanation as to what it actually was and how it originated — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.97.221.86 (talk) 04:19, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

"In 1848 the Hundred of Onehunga, one of six Hundreds in the Auckland area, was established by proclamation. This is based on a unit of local government used in England for centuries. The Wardens of the Hundred of Onehunga were responsible for the One Tree Hill reserve that remained unenclosed."[6] Clarityfiend (talk) 05:34, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

American celebrites who are only famous in America

Of course every country has people who are well-known in their country who are obscure elsewhere. There are French celebrities who are only famous in France, Russian celebrities who are only famous in Russia, Japanese celebrities who are only famous in Japan etc. But since American media and culture is very well-known and popular worldwide, many American celebrities are also well-known worldwide. However, who are good examples of American household names who are virtually unknown everywhere else, even in Canada or Mexico? Two people I can think of are Kim Kardashian and Billy Mays who are very well known in America but don't seem to be that famous elsewhere (I'm not sure if Mays is famous in Canada, although I think Kardashian is). Are they only household names in America? And who are other good examples of American household names who are obscure outside of America? Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 05:56, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

We certainly know of the appalling Kardashian family here in Australia. Why we needed to be told about their despicable doings, I cannot fathom. To be even-handed, I make the same point about Ozzie Osborne and his tribe (UK), and Lara Bingle (Australia). -- ♬ Jack of Oz ♬ ^{[your turn]} 06:08, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

(ec) In Australia, the Kardashians are well known to popular culture via TV and silly magazines. I also know of Billy Mays, but he is probably less known to non-Interwebbers. I'd say the best place to look for what you want are major news anchors, commentators, talking heads and politicians; people who appear regularly on domestic television, but who are too topical to appeal to an international audience. Unfortunately, being outside America, I can't give you any examples of people I've never heard of. :) FiggyBee (talk) 06:17, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

I'm an American, and couldn't have told you who Billy Mays was without looking it up. I don't know what's "despicable" about the Kardashians either, but that's not to say Jack is wrong; I just don't bother informing myself on such subjects. --Trovatore (talk) 06:23, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

(BY THE WAY: In case anyone wants to enlighten me on the latter point, please don't.) --Trovatore (talk) 06:23, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

Baseball and American Football "stars" would be a likely chance of fitting the bill here. As an Australian, I can't think of the names of any current ones (I think Babe Ruth has retired), but I'll bet Americans can. HiLo48 (talk) 06:26, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

That's the obvious answer from people in the UK as well. Almost no-one in the UK has ever heard of anyone famous in the US for playing baseball or American football, and very very few will ever have heard of any American basketball players either. Ghmyrtle (talk) 08:17, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

The only American footbal player most South Africans could possibly name is OJ Simpson, but obviously not for his footbal career. In fact many would not even know that he played American football. Roger (talk) 08:50, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

FiggyBee's suggestions of those in the news industry and politics and HiLo's suggestion of athletes are probably spot on. It's hard for me to say since I'm an American, so I don't know who is or isn't popular outside the States. (It's not something that comes up in my conversations with my Germany-living brother) Billy Mays is/was likely unknown since either he mostly sold products that were sold predominantly to Americans or those products had different pitchmen in other countries due to language differences. Dismas|^(talk) 06:49, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

The Kardashians seem to be well known in the UK and France too, judging by how often their shows are on TV. I agree with FiggyBee about news celebrities - I assume (or perhaps hope) someone like Glenn Beck would be relatively unknown. Adam Bishop (talk) 07:07, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

Who? HiLo48 (talk) 07:30, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

Glenn Beck. Since he's a political commentator, he's likely not well known outside the US. Or at least I hope he isn't. Hate to think his vitriol is escaping our borders. Dismas|^(talk) 07:36, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

Be comforted. It hasn't splashed as far as this part of the UK. If you could tell me in return that you'd never heard of Katie Price, it would make my Sunday. Karenjc 07:43, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

I saw Katie Price on the cover of every tabloid and magazine in England a couple of months ago, and I had no idea who she was! Adam Bishop (talk) 07:56, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

I know that Price is a Page Three girl but that's only from Wikipedia. 99.9% of the American public would have no idea who she is. Dismas|^(talk) 08:40, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

We get The Daily Show in the UK so we get to laugh at Glenn Beck on a regular basis. --Michig (talk) 20:43, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

And likewise, I would hope you haven't heard of Australia's Andrew Bolt. HiLo48 (talk) 07:54, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

Thank you both! And no, I haven't. Karenjc 08:36, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

We know of Glenn Beck in Australia, but only because he's the poster boy for how insane American politics can be (edit; we've stopped being so smug about this since the rise of the afore-mentioned Blot). We don't actually get the benefit of Beck's wisdom on on our screens or radios. We're also vaguely aware of Bill O'Reilly and Rush Limbaugh, but couldn't pick them out in a lineup. On the other side of politics, Keith Olbermann is probably known only to dedicated USAphiles. I assume there are some actual grown-ups (the equivalent of Australia's Kerry O'Brien or Tony Jones) talking politics in the US though? We've never heard of them, because what they're talking about would make no sense and/or be of no interest to us. FiggyBee (talk) 07:54, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

The phenomenon of someone assuming a celebrity in one country is also a celebrity in another country where they are in fact unknown could be called the Rula Lenska effect, after an actress known in Britain appeared in a US TV commercial in the 1970's as someone the viewer should recognize, to the bewilderment of US televiewers, spawning many late-night comedy sketches ridiculing her, thereby making her famous for her obscurity. The Kardashian celebutantes are widely disliked in the US, since their publicity agents just started out presenting them as persons famous for being famous. Yet their faces are on supermarket tabloids and magazines every month, along with supposed hints of which ones sweeties are cheating on them, and other tidbits many do not want to know. Players in sports not widely followed in a given country (cricket in the US, American football in UK) are good candidates for local fame, obscurity in other countries. Any sports player who participates in the Olympics as well as in his own country, and whose sport is played in many countries, like basketballer Michael Jordan in his prime, seems not to fit this. If folks outside the US are never exposed to Glen Beck, it is their good fortune. But with the internet anyone could have worldwide followers. A musician may well have have a worldwide following, with less localization of fame. Did US televangelists like Billy Graham become known in other countries through their local rallies or "crusades?" Edison (talk) 13:10, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

US dramas and comedies (both TV and film) play heavily in the UK, but entertainment, chat, or quiz programs usually aren't (and if they are, they're re-made in a local incarnation). So Britons have very little familiarity with (but may well have heard of) Letterman, Leno, Carson, Kimmel, O'Brien, or (perhaps ironically) Craig Ferguson. Regis Philbin, Kathy-Lee Gifford, Vanna White, Ryan Seacrest, Kelly Ripa, Bob Barker, and the cast of The View are virtually unknown. Britain doesn't get US daytime tv very much, so count out Susan Lucci. British tv mostly doesn't carry US journalism, so some Britons will have heard of Barbara Walters and Walter Kronkite, but few people would recognise Tom Brokaw or Stone Philips. And Britain doesn't get US TV segmented for ethnic or language groups (or shows only the most successful ones) so Don Francisco is totally unknown, and Brandy Norwood disproportionately unfamous. We see few US politicians beyond Presidents (and candidates for that job). Lastly, programs like Saturday Night Live and MADtv didn't run (or did somewhere in the lower reaches of the satellite program guide) so their cast members only register in the UK when they appear in movies. -- Finlay McWalterჷTalk 15:10, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

The US presence on the Internet is so high that I often see mentions of US celebrities who I had no idea existed. The Kardashian family is one example. Had I not read about them on the Internet, I would never have been aware of their existence. Another good example is when I saw a post on the Failbook blog about Facebook posts between Skrillex and Deadmau5. It was the first time I had heard of either of them, and I had to infer from context that they are musicians. JIP | Talk 19:45, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

Skrillex and Deadmau5 are more genre-obscure than geo-obscure, I'd say; whether you've heard of them depends more on your (and your associates') musical taste than location. FiggyBee (talk) 02:00, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

I imagine there are a lot of examples among religious and business leaders. How about the supreme court judges? I'm aware they exist and might recognise a couple of the names from articles about US politics, but couldn't tell you anything about them (also, I thought there were 7, but I just checked and it turns out there are 9). Perhaps also some criminals/victims from high profile crimes? 81.98.43.107 (talk) 20:20, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

So, I guess Rodney King might be showing up in the main page news section since he'd possibly be known in other countries. He died today if anyone cares. Dismas|^(talk) 20:32, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

It becomes clear if one watches American shows like The Simpsons, which love to reference and feature American "celebrities", just how few of said people we in the UK have actually heard of! -- Necrothesp (talk) 20:56, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

You've only got to look at the questions we often get here on the ref desk. An OP will ask about some person, but not identify what they're notable for (actor, writer, pornstar, singer ...), their nationality, or anything else about them. The OP assumes that, because they are aware of and have some interest in this person, the whole world is aware of them. But how often do we have to ask them for more information about said person? To relate this to the current question, not all of these sorts of OPs are interested in American celebrities (who are little known elsewhere), but they seem to represent a sizeable proportion. -- ♬ Jack of Oz ♬ ^{[your turn]} 22:05, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

I would say that American TV and radio personalities like David Letterman and Howard Stern are little known outside the USA. --Viennese Waltz 07:38, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

Letterman's been on Australian TV for a number of years. He was clearly the model for Steve Vizard's early forays into television-land (in particular, Tonight Live with Steve Vizard 1990-93). I've heard of Howard Stern, but then, I'm paid to know these things. After all, I'm a Wikipedia editor. -- ♬ Jack of Oz ♬ ^{[your turn]} 08:27, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

There's a lot of American TV shows that aren't shown widely in other countries, e.g. daytime soaps, game shows, and current affairs/news. --Colapeninsula (talk) 09:00, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

A good example would be the reveal of the "elevator killer" in Steve Martin's film The Man with Two Brains. The joke was obviously that Merv Griffin was someone famous, but I'd never heard of him. --Nicknack009 (talk) 09:17, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

Satire always depends on the audience understanding the reference. Merv Griffin was a famous creator of game shows as well as a talk show host. And it's not just the USA. Monty Python had endless references to seemingly obscure folk who would have been known very little or not at all outside the UK. One of the most obscure that I an recall is in Woody Allen's Sleeper in which he had a scientist saying that World War III had happened because "a man named Albert Shanker got hold of a nuclear weapon." That guy's name was little known outside New York City, never mind outside the USA. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 12:38, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

Use of jet bridges by low cost airlines

Why do Ryanair and easyjet use jet bridges at Madrid and Barcelona when they don't at most of their other airports. 176.250.196.132 (talk) 14:03, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

Some airports charge a separate fee for using an airbridge. Some force airlines to use airbridges - this seems to be the case at Alicante at least, which apparently Ryanair weren't happy about (ref). -- Finlay McWalterჷTalk 14:34, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

This forum post has someone claiming to be from Ryanair (which naturally I can't verify) who says they have to use airbridges (jetways) at a list of Spanish airports. Note that Ryanair doesn't fly to Barcelona El Prat Airport but to Girona-Costa Brava Airport (which, in its inimitable style, it calls "Barcelona Girona"); that posting I found says they don't use an airbridge at Girona. -- Finlay McWalterჷTalk 14:40, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

What in the world is a jet bridge? Can't you folks at least link to the subject you are asking about? μηδείς (talk) 21:59, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

It appears the search function at Wikipedia is working. --Jayron32 01:08, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

Why has law become a smaller portion of the US economy in the last 20-25 years?

A fact from this blog caught my eye:

"In the late 1980s, the legal services sector represented slightly more than 2% of GDP (the same percentage as in the mid-1970s). As of 2009, that figure had declined to 1.37%." http://insidethelawschoolscam.blogspot.com/2011/11/back-to-basics.html

That seems like a huge drop in what would seem like a fairly stable industry. Why hasn't legal business kept anywhere near the same pace of growth as the overall economy?

Aewxoom (talk) 15:57, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

As you say, it is a stable industry, not a growth one. Commercial law you might expect to grow at roughly the same rate as the rest of the economy, but criminal law can be expected to grow and shrink in line with crime rates rather than the economy (in fact, crime rates tend to be inversely related to the economy). Crime rates in the US have dropped since the late 80's, I believe. --Tango (talk) 16:11, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

Hi Tango, I considered that possibility but I know that in the US, the prison population has skyrocketed in the last 25 years and so has the volume of work in courts (a new prosecutor for every 500 arrests). I don't think a lack of work in criminal law explains this trend. Aewxoom (talk) 16:18, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

The prison population has increased due to a change in sentencing policy, rather than an increase in crime, so I wouldn't read too much into that. I don't know what has happened to the volume of work in courts - you may be right, in which case my explanation may be wrong. --Tango (talk) 17:54, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

There is a fairly detailed article here, which argues that the legal sector did very poorly from around 1990 onwards, because the industry had matured and reached a kind of market saturation situation - people were purchasing all the legal services they needed so there was little opportunity for growth. No idea how accurate that is. 81.98.43.107 (talk) 20:06, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

I think longer sentences are the reason. Take your average petty criminal. In the bad old days, he'd be continuously arrested and released, engaging a defense lawyer each time (and causing prosecuting lawyers to go to work, too). Now, with three strikes laws and such, you might get a long prison sentence. After the conviction, there normally isn't much work for the defense lawyer, unless there is some reason to suspect that the sentence could be overturned, which is rare. Similarly, the prosecuting lawyers are typically "off the case" once the criminal convictions comes in. StuRat (talk) 07:08, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

I personally doubt that the criminal courts are any less busy now than they were 30 years ago, and even if they are, I don't think they are a big enough part of the system to cause such a downturn. In Australia, barristers - who are the people who defend and prosecute people in court - make up only 5% of the legal fraternity, and only make 12% of their income from criminal cases; less than 1% of the 18 billion dollar income of the entire legal sector in 2008.[7] I imagine the percentage of the US legal landscape relating to criminality is similarly small. FiggyBee (talk) 09:57, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

Number of lawyers per 1000 people in a country

I'm looking at two sets of data: p. 13 and 2） [8]

What accounts for the discrepancies between the same countries for these two sets of data? (I know the years may be different.)

Part 2 of my question. Does anybody have any insight into comparing between countries? Do some countries require a license lawyer to perform many functions that an unlicensed legal helper can do in other countries?

Aewxoom (talk) 16:09, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

Different years, different definition of lawyer and different methodology resulting in different errors are probably the main contributing factors. This is an excellent example of why it is vital to use one source for all your data when making comparisons. --Tango (talk) 16:17, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

Indeed. There is e.g. a stark discrepancy for Germany (1.34 vs. 2.7) which possibly is caused by either counting only "Rechtsanwälte", or by counting "Rechtsanwälte" and "Notare" (which perform many legal services, but do not represent people before courts). Alternatively, the higher number might include "Staatsanwälte" (public prosecutors), which are educated and qualified as lawyers, but are career civil servants. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 08:21, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

Computer

Computer is operated by operating Language while operating system is made through programming Language .then how firstly when computer was made operations system would have been made ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rahulkapadiya (talk • contribs) 17:25, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

The second paragraph of Booting summarizes how this is done, while the Boot loader section goes into more detail. Clarityfiend (talk) 17:43, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

Early computers didn't use programming languages, but worked directly in assembly language. That is, they used the commands that were hard-coded into the processor's circuitry. The first programmable computer, Colossus, didn't even have an assembly language and you actually had to unplug wires and plug them in somewhere else in order to reprogram it. --Tango (talk) 17:50, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

The word "then" in the OP's question indicates they see a paradox that they may have conceived thus:

• A computer needs an OS (Operating system)
• Operating systems are written in Programming language
• Programming language did not exist until there were computers

So here's the paradox: how was the operating system for the first computer made? Some clarification will make that paradox go away.

• A computer doesn't need a new OS every time it is programmed, but having one saves the programmer time.
• There are many programming languages and no one (except an OS programmer) cares which is used to write an OS.
• The first operating system on the first computer was just a mechanical switch labelled "ON/OFF".

A new paradox is that it took so long for programming languages to take root in the computer when they existed already before its invention to direct the behaviour of machines such as the Jacquard loom and the Player piano. DriveByWire (talk) 19:58, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

Copyright Catalog Terminology

I am trying to determine whether the 1941 song Ay, Jalisco, no te rajes! by Manuel Esperon and Ernesto Cortazar was originally written for the 1941 film of the same name, [9] or if it had been written previous to its inclusion in that film. I have been able to locate a catalog of copyright entries from the library of congress [10]. The catalog lists the song, and then says "de la pelicula" which translates "of the film." Does anyone know exactly what a copyright catalog means when it says that a song is "of the film"? Is this absolute proof that the song was written originally for the 1941 film?--Jpcase (talk) 20:51, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

"From the film" might be a better translation, not that I can answer your question itself. μηδείς (talk) 20:56, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

Yes, "from the film". And the OP, or someone, asked pretty much the same question a week or so ago. There doesn't seem to be a lot of detailed info out there, regarding this song. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 22:02, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, I asked this question on the Entertainment Reference Desk, but didn't get an answer, so I wanted to try here, before giving up. You're right though; unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be much available info on the song, but my question doesn't require knowledge of the song to answer. I need to know what it means when a copyright says that a song is "from the film." Does anyone know?--Jpcase (talk) 02:09, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

There is no reason to believe that is a technical legal term "proving" anything about its first use or that it means that (at least according to current copyright law) only the film recording of the song itself is copyrighted. It probably simply was meant as a clarifying description for future archivists who might be looking for the copyrighted article. There's really no way to know other than from an artists whether the song was written before or after it was commissioned. But mine is the opinion of an educated adult, not a copyright lawyer or librarian. μηδείς (talk) 03:04, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

June 18

Can I work as a translator?

Greeting! I have posted these questions to the "Help desk". I did not if they receive my questions. I was not either given or noticed any signs that say my questions are sent. So I am posting it here. I want to contribute to this organization in someway. However, I am not professional on any particularly subject and so I cannot creat a good, exact work myself. I found out that many works in my native language (Vietnamese) have not been translated into English (I cannot find the English version of the same work on the left side of the page). For examples like these:

1. http://vi.wikipedia.org/wiki/T%E1%BB%AB_Cung_Ho%C3%A0ng_th%C3%A1i_h%E1%BA%ADu (about Tu Cung Queen of Vietnam)
2. http://vi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nguy%E1%BB%85n_Tri_Ph%C6%B0%C6%A1ng (about the famous general Nguyen Tri Phuong of Viet Nam)

and many more I know there are now auto-translators engine like Google translate, however, I think the translated version made of engines like that may not be exact and accurate, sometimes they are even meaningless (the engine does not seem to understand some of the idioms, phrases, and also vocabulary) So, I think I can contribute to Wikimedia as a translator, which means I will only translate other's work into my native language and vice versa. I will make sure to write down the orgininal page link so readers will know to whom do the information and all the media files belong as well as not including any of my own ideas into the translated version. My questions are:

1. Numbered list item Is it allowed to do that?
2. Numbered list item Is it what it is needed?
3. Which/what page/information should I know on Wikipedia about this matter before I can get to start translating?

Thank you triet96 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Triet96 (talk • contribs) 03:51, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

Welcome, Triet96! I am a native English speaker. You do not write perfect English. But I can understand everything you say! Understanding is what matters. Please translate whatever you want to translate, from English to Vietnamese or from Vietnamese to English. If it is not perfect English, someone will fix it. Humans are always better than auto-translators. If you translate an article and you want someone to check it, let us know, and we will make sure it is understandable. Go ahead and choose an article you like, and work on it now. Let us know what you have done and we will help you with it. (Si tu parles francais, il y a beaucoup de francophones ici aussi)!μηδείς (talk) 04:13, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

Triet96, it has been several years since I was active in the translation efforts at Wikipedia, but it appears that there are still some guidelines and useful links at Wikipedia:Translation, which may be of use to you. Jwrosenzweig (talk) 06:44, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

Thank you so much for answering my questions this fast. I am now learning the way around on Wikipedia, how to use some basic codes and some other things that I may need. I am surely need your help to look after my translation, so thank you so much TMT (talk) 18:57, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

Nisour Massacre video

I know that a lot of footage from Iraq/Afghanistan was removed from the Internet a few years after the Iraq war started (i.e. after they started forcing troops to go through the censors at "Trooptube"), due to the military's concern that people were seeing too many of the atrocities that were occuring there.

However, several videos seem to have been scrubbed more recently, and I'm wondering if someone could help me find one of them. In particular, I'm looking for uncut footage of Blackwater's Nisour square massacre -- not news clips that show bits and pieces of it, and not the sanitized footage (that showed the aftermath of the shooting) which they used during their defense -- but the raw uncut footage from the rooftop where the contractors were shooting from, laughing/joking as they were gunning people down.

Does anyone know of a site that has this video archived? It seems odd that there isn't a *single* copy of the full video from the Nisour massacre in the search results on Google ...

Thanks, Jrtayloriv (talk) 02:33, 8 June 2012 (UTC)

I am still going with the conspiracy theory--the Cigarette Smoking Man has had them all removed. But if you are an American citizen in good standing you can always try the Freedom of Information Act (US). Might even find what you need on a site that hosts snuff films, but I wouldn't have the foggiest idea how to go about that. μηδείς (talk) 16:54, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

Oh, I see. I couldn't understand why you were so intent on disrupting this thread before. Now it makes more sense: you think it's a "conspiracy theory" to think that the military had videos removed from the internet during the Iraq/Afpak wars ... I suggest you go look into the history of "TroopTube", and of the military's attempts to shut down blogs and video sites hosted by servicemembers during the war in general. This is not a "conspiracy theory" -- it's a well-documented fact (including by the corporate media, which I'm guessing is your primary news source -- e.g. "The military has struggled to cope with a new generation who use social networking tools to share uncensored records of their life at war. In 2006 the Pentagon ordered troops to stop posting "trophy videos" – films shot as service mementoes – and attempted to close down or silence a number of blogs and messageboards run by active personnel." [11]). ... In the future, I suggest you do some research on a topic before you start making sarcastic responses about things you know nothing about. Anyhow, now that you've made yourself feel better, do you think you could stop disrupting the thread so that someone can give me a real answer? Thanks. -- Jrtayloriv (talk) 18:18, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

Don't worry about my feelings, thanks. Interestingly: http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/18/tech/web/google-transparency-report/index.html μηδείς (talk) 18:52, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the link. Good article. -- Jrtayloriv (talk) 01:51, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

HMS Penelope

I am looking for the Captain's name of HMS Penelope 1965-1966 Mr FJH Glover Wigan UK — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.25.110.235 (talk) 12:58, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

director (education)

Director (education) redirects to head teacher, but I can't find out when and where is a school principal is referred to as a director. Does anyone know anything about it? --Quest for Truth (talk) 13:08, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

Several Google searches have convinced me that, while the term Director is used in an education context in English-speaking countries at least , it rarely if ever refers to a head teacher/school principal. Director and School Director seem to be used in university faculties or departments (also known as schools, particularly in the UK) to refer to the head of department. I also found one independent school in the UK which uses the title for several posts on the senior leadership team, but not that of the head teacher. The ongoing changes within the England's primary and secondary education system (see Academy (English school)) does mean that more and more schools are moving to a similar legal structure to that of a limited company, and their school governors are actually company directors and thus technically "directors" of the school. But unless anyone can shed more light, I would agree that the redirect is not necessarily a helpful or accurate one. Karenjc 08:24, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

Reputation management (managerial economics / game theory)

I came across this short-answer question in an old MBA exam paper, which mostly covered business economics and particularly game theory. "How can you build a reputation for being tough if you are not actually tough?" For several reasons that struck me as a fascinating question - unfortunately I can't find a model answer, but given the rest of the paper there the expected answer would have been couched in terms of economics, and possibly game theory, rather than e.g. marketing or PR theory. Is there a branch of managerial economics that analyses reputation management from a primarily economic or game theoretic perspective? (Presumably related to information economics?) And can anyone who has done a similar degree suggest the kind of answer the paper would be looking for? Unfortunately the wiki article on reputation management is very poor, and the articles on information economics are at a relatively low level of development given the breadth of that field. ManyQuestionsFewAnswers (talk) 13:41, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

One way is to hide incidents when you do something which would be perceived as "weak". For example, if your company is sued and likely to lose the lawsuit, leading to other suits, it might be better to settle quickly and add a gag order provision to the settlement that all future payments will be forfeit if they talk about it in public.

There is also a way of talking that makes your actions sound tough, when they are not. For example "The officer involved in the shooting of the allegedly unarmed teen has been suspended, pending an investigation". Sounds tough, right ? But the reality may well be that they were suspended with pay, which is basically the same as being given a vacation, and that the "investigation" will just be a white-wash, which will come back with something vague like "there is insufficient evidence to bring charges", once the media has moved on to the next big story. StuRat (talk) 21:12, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

"Talk up things that sound tough, stay quiet things that don't" sounds about right in general. I wonder about the more specific context here - on consideration, "tough" in this instance seems [based on surrounding questions in the paper!] to refer to an established company in an uncompetitive market that can, and will, aggressively respond to any attempts at market entry (e.g. by predatory pricing). The game-theoretic implication is that a rational potential entrant will choose not to attempt market entry because they would face unsustainable losses and be forced to withdraw. Even if the established firm would not respond so aggressively in reality (because it too would lose money in doing so, and may fare better just accommodating to the rival entering the market and accept reduced profitability as a consequence) it still makes sense to "act tough", because if potential rivals take the firm's stance seriously and stay out of the market, then the firm can successfully protect its coveted position without either having to engage in an expensive price war, or accepting reduced market share. What steps could such a firm take to reinforce its reputation of being "tough", if it doesn't actually engage in anti-competitive behavior? ManyQuestionsFewAnswers (talk) 00:12, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

In that context, they could secure lines of credit and such, and then leak that this is so that they will be in a comfortable cash position in case they need to engage in a price war with any new competitors. StuRat (talk) 00:17, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

Railways

Is it possible to get to Buenos Aires from Santiago Chile by train? 109.74.50.52 (talk) 14:06, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

It doesn't look like it is. This comprehensive website on train travel around the world [12] only mentions a line that links Santiago with four other cities in Chile, nothing going east. The Chilean railways website is here but it doesn't look like there is any way of getting an online timetable from it. Various forum threads I found seem to indicate that if you want to do this journey overland then the only way is by bus. --Viennese Waltz 14:34, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

Here is the bible of exotic train travel. Hayttom (talk) 16:01, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

Yeah I already linked to that in my response above. --Viennese Waltz 18:27, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

(EC) Per Empresa de los Ferrocarriles del Estado and Transandine Railway, it sounds like this was definitely possible in the past, but that line is long closed. There is still the Salta–Antofagasta railway linking both countries. That article suggests the line may be linked to Santiago in some fashion and Antofagasta mentions a connection to Ferronor and [13] suggests at least in 1997 this may have been connected to Santiago. However I have been unable to confirm that it's definitely possible and either way it sounds like it's now used by freight trains only so any passenger travel (e.g. [14] and other results/info I haven't provided) will have to be by special arrangement (and considering it'll likely involve multipl trains will probably be fairly difficult). In any case, it's a moot point, while not clearly stated in Rail transport in Argentina, from some searches it definitely doesn't sound like there's any extant rail connection from anywhere in Salta Province to Buenos Ares. Similarly while it may or may not be possible to get to Bolivia by train from Santiago, considering the impossibility of getting from Salta. there's definitely no connection to Buenos Aires to Jujuy Province by rail. I haven't really looked in to the possibility of something strange like going from Buenos Ares to Brazil to Bolivia to Santiago but from a quick look at Rail transport in Bolivia and particularly Trans-Andean railways and my earlier searches, I don't think it's possible. Nil Einne (talk) 17:03, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

interwiki links aren't capitalized anymore?

Hello, I've just noticed that the names of the languages in the interwiki column aren't capitalized anymore. Where it formerly said, for example, Русский, it now says русский; same with other languages (Deutsch is still capitalized, I guess because so is the name of German in German.) Will it be this way from now on? Уга-уга12 (talk) 20:13, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

I assume it's been changed to conform to the capitalisation protocols of each language. For example, the Russian word for "Russian", русский (or any languages, for that matter), is not capitalised unless starting a sentence, so it would be correct to use lower case in a list like that. -- ♬ Jack of Oz ♬ ^{[your turn]} 20:47, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

I have noticed the same thing too. I assume it's to conform to the capitalisation rules of language names in different languages. I assume that "Deutsch" is still capitalised because in German, all nouns are capitalised (although language names used as adjectives apparently aren't). I know for a fact that in Finnish, language names aren't capitalised. I'm fairly certain they aren't in Swedish either. I'm also fairly certain that in English, language names are always capitalised. I'm not sure about any other languages. So thus of the languages I'm sure of, English is the only one where language names are capitalised. I have also noticed that so far, this change only concerns the English Wikipedia. JIP | Talk 21:04, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

Yes, it is a deliberate change, in accordance with the analysis above. And it is currently live on all projects except non-English Wikipedias, where it will go live later this week. HTH, - Jarry1250 ^{[Deliberation needed]} 21:11, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

Streamlined ships

"In the future we will no doubt see streamlined ships which will be faster, more comfortable and safer than anything we know today" says the narrator about the vessel at 4:12 in the video (after novelties such as the amazing monster aeroplane that speeds from London to New York in a day). Shall we, or if not, why not? DriveByWire (talk) 21:48, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

From casual observation of large ocean liners in Southampton harbour (where I happen to work, though in a non-marine context), I would say that this has to a certain extent already happened – the exterior of large liners like Queen Mary 2 are much less irregular in outline, and more contiguous, than that of typical liners of the era in which the film was made, while those of fast ferries such as the Isle of Wight Red Jets come even closer to the its forecast.

However, I suspect that further development along the (stream)lines suggested would be pointless, because much the greater proportion of drag on a ship is caused by water on the submerged hull, where improvement would have the greatest effect, while that achievable by further smoothing of the superstructure would be comparatively insignificant and would come at the expense of restricting passengers' access to the open air. Is there a Naval architect in the house? {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.197.66.109 (talk) 22:31, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

What if they turned the Queen Mary into a hydroplane? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 23:27, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

I can see why streamlining might increase speed, but why would it increase safety and comfort ? Since increased speed makes collisions more likely and more serious, I think streamlining would have the opposite effect. As for comfort, streamlining would involve removing all portholes and sealing off the top decks, which doesn't sound comfortable. The more important thing that it might improve is fuel economy. Thus, if fuel becomes more expensive, then you may see more streamlining. StuRat (talk) 23:43, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

We don't have ocean liners any more (except for the QM2) because the airliner killed them off in the 1950s. Today we have top-heavy, lumpy cruise ships, where the emphasis is on gimmicky "luxury" and everyone having a window rather than on speed and efficiency. In terms of smaller ships like ferries, they certainly are sleeker and faster today than they were 90 years ago. FiggyBee (talk) 01:08, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

I'm sailing on the QM2 this week to New York and it is going to take seven days, did the same journey on a container ship a few years ago and it only took 6 days, wonder why?--85.211.222.224 (talk) 08:40, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

Because for you, the journey is the destination, while for containers, the destination is the destination. In other words, you book a luxury cruise across the Atlantic, while the container shipper pays for getting the container delivered at a specific date (usually ASAP) at a specific place. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 09:50, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

June 19

Any idea what this is from?

My friend is trying to identify this object: [[15]] It definitely looks like a latching mechanism, but for what?