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*... that, at 5 ft 7 in (1.70 metres) tall, '''[[Teddy Davison]]''' was the smallest [[Goalkeeper (association football)|goalkeepeer]] to play for the [[England national football team]]? -- new article by [[User:Mick Knapton]]; Nom by [[User:Daemonic Kangaroo|Daemonic Kangaroo]] ([[User talk:Daemonic Kangaroo|talk]]) 13:13, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
*... that, at 5 ft 7 in (1.70 metres) tall, '''[[Teddy Davison]]''' was the smallest [[Goalkeeper (association football)|goalkeepeer]] to play for the [[England national football team]]? -- new article by [[User:Mick Knapton]]; Nom by [[User:Daemonic Kangaroo|Daemonic Kangaroo]] ([[User talk:Daemonic Kangaroo|talk]]) 13:13, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
[[Image:Cedarmere - Home of WC Bryant.jpg|100px|right]]
*... that [[William Cullen Bryant]] (''house, pictured'') owned '''[[Cedarmere-Clayton Estates|the land]]''' in [[Roslyn Harbor, New York]] where the '''[[Nassau County Museum of Art]]''' now stands? Another double from Long Island. Self-nom (at least at the moment). [[User:Daniel Case|Daniel Case]] ([[User talk:Daniel Case|talk]]) 14:35, 7 July 2008 (UTC)


===Articles created/expanded on July 3===
===Articles created/expanded on July 3===

Revision as of 14:35, 7 July 2008

COSMOS field, imaged by CFHT
COSMOS field, imaged by CFHT

This page is for nominations to appear in the "Did you know" section (reproduced on the right) on the Main Page. Eligible articles may only be up to 5 days old; for details see these rules.

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List new suggestions here, under the date the article was created or expanded (not the date you submit it here), with the newest dates at the top. If a suitable image is available, place it immediately before the suggestion. Any user may nominate a DYK suggestion; self-nominations are permitted and encouraged.

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  • Proposed articles should:
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    • relevant to the article.
    • formatted as [[Image:image name |right|100x100px| Description]] and placed directly above the suggested fact.
  • Proposed lists should have two characteristics to be considered for DYK: (i) be a compilation of entries that are unlikely to have ever been compiled anywhere else (e.g. List of architectural vaults), and (ii) have 1,500+ character non-stub text that brings out interesting, relational, and referenced facts from the compiled list that may not otherwise be obvious but for the compilation.
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{{subst:DYK?no}} Maybe Article is currently ineligible but may only need some minor work to fix.
{{subst:DYKno}} No Article is either completely ineligible, or else requires considerable work before becoming eligible

2024-05-12T00:00:00Z

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Candidate entries

Articles created/expanded on July 7

Articles created/expanded on July 6

  • Interesting topic, but the article has several issues: it is Eurocentric and does not present a worldwide view, it gives the impression of original research, and it's undersourced (in reality only one source), and too listy. May technically qualify, but I would recommend a thorough cleanup first. Lampman Talk to me! 01:10, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Eleven of the 29 mononymous persons are Americans, Gackt and Mana are Japanese, Pelé and Ronaldinho are Brazilian. Contributions of African, Australian, Polynesian and other names are welcome. Nihil novi (talk) 01:38, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not talking about the list, I'm talking about the article. Generalisations are made about naming conventions through the ages that have no sources, and do not necessarily apply outside of the European cultural sphere. Lampman Talk to me! 02:05, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • The website referenced says it's "just an assumption" that it was Moffat who hit the ship. Does Jameson say something else? Lampman Talk to me! 01:20, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
That's a good point, the John Moffat (pilot) article confidently attributes the hit to him, but Rossiter and Jameson both, while strongly indicating that he was responsible, stop short of definitely saying it. However the sources agree that the strike was made by one of the pilots who attacked before Owensmith, as he observed the hit as he prepared for his attack run, making it either Moffat, or Keane, both of 818 Squadron. Most popular accounts now attribute it to Moffat, but perhaps a revised hook would avoid controversy -
Better? Morhange (talk) 17:50, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, I wasn't aware that spaces were included. I got 192 characters without the spaces, so I thought that was okay. Do spaces count? Morhange (talk) 03:21, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Please merge this with Lüshi Chunqiu, which is an older and longer article. --PFHLai (talk) 05:12, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Ah - sorry, didn't realise that the article already exists. I speedy deleted it. Nousernamesleft (talk) 19:23, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I've turned the redlink into a redirect. Please be encouraged to update and expand the old article. --PFHLai (talk) 23:03, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Pls be reminded that DYK articles need to be longer than 1500 characters. This one has less than 900. Pls type in a bit more. --PFHLai (talk) 01:52, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, didn't see that requirement. I didn't add that much text (mostly high scientific citations that throw off the character count), but frankly, I tried to pull everything I could on him. I hope it works now. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 05:18, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Articles created/expanded on July 5

I removed the passage on which the hook was based from the article.This position is by no means exceptional, nor milestones in the political career of Bilal. Bilal, as Minister of Information, is the official spokesperson of the Syrian government, and this statement is just in line with all other Syrian government statements on Golan since the 1967 war. It is not Bilal who 'threatens' anyone, it is the government position. Its a bit like saying that Ari Fleischer threatened to invade Iraq. --Soman (talk) 07:36, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • This article's hook is unsourced or too long or there are other content issues Two things: first, the article says the deaths are usually attributed to malaria but lists one writer who believes it was the Black Death. Is the malaria view sufficiently dominant that we can give it as fact? If so maybe the article could make that a bit clearer. Secondly, the Philip Smith reference gives a 404. Nice article and hook though - was thinking of nominating it myself until I saw it was already here. Olaf Davis | Talk 21:14, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Without question the malaria "view" is correct, especially considering this is 100 years too early for the plague. You can take out the cause of death in the hook if it worries you. I don't understand your second comment. Savidan 23:57, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, Black Death in 1287 would have been an interesting hook indeed! The malaria story checks out, according to Bagliani and Peterson, I believe it was quite common in Rome at the time (certainly more common than the Black Death...) The problem with your links was that they were dead. I've replaced them, but the Google Books links I found weren't readable. Anyway, the main issue here is length - without the table I get it to be 1,372 characters, and the 1,500 limit is a mandatory minimum. Lampman Talk to me! 06:07, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Przemyśl, Old Synagogue
Przemyśl, Old Synagogue
  • ... that Ghulam Ahmed Chishti wrote, composed and recorded six to seven songs for the film Pheray in a single day? -- new article created by Arun Reginald (talk · contribs) 23:58, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Miguelemejia (talkcontribs) --Miguelemejia (talk) 23:39, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • ... that in 1346 the Black Plague (illustration pictured) infected the first Europeans in the Crimea in what has been called one of the worst biological attacks in the history of warfare? Expanded over 5x on this day. Nominated by Wrad (talk) 23:17, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • (alternate)... that Thomas Kimmwood Peters was the only newsreel photographer that filmed the San Francisco earthquake and fire of 1906? by --Doug talk 19:42, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Charles Mathias, Jr.
Charles Mathias, Jr.
Daily Express Building
Daily Express Building
This article's hook is unsourced or too long or there are other content issues Under 1500 characters. « Milk's Favorite Cøøkie 19:57, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Green tickY done. Rudget (logs) 14:06, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Length and reference verified. « Milk's Favorite Cøøkie 17:16, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Not a new article, nor significantly expanded. --Millbrooky (talk) 19:25, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I added a new section to the article about landmarks with pictures. Why isn't that classed as "significant"? bsrboy (talk) 19:53, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
From the looks of it, you didn't expand the article fivefold. It looks like you did some cleaning up and added a few pics. That's not a fivefold expansion which is why it was declined. -- RyRy (talk) 21:35, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I wandered this before, what is fivefold? bsrboy (talk) 22:03, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Expanding an article 5 times it's original length. Hope that helps. :D -- RyRy (talk) 23:02, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Ah, okay. You might want to note that at the top of the article in case someone doesn't understand. bsrboy (talk) 23:30, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Gevingåsen Tunnel
Gevingåsen Tunnel
  • This article's hook is unsourced or too long or there are other content issues Excuse me, but just because the hook is 206 characters doesn't mean you have to fail it. It can be fixed very easily, so I'll make it a maybe hook. Thanks, RyRy (talk) 21:14, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

... that Arpad Vass, forensic anthropologist, is developing a decomposition odor analysis or DOA database to detect human remains? New' shorter hook.SriMesh | talk 03:11, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • ... that Psilopterus was about the same size as the modern cariama, making it the smallest of the carnivorous prehistoric avians known as terror birds? (Expanded from a unreferenced single sentence and taxobox into a well-referenced article almost 10 KB long. Started expanding on the 4th, but didn't meet the criteria until the clock just turned over on the 5th. Pat (talk) 00:47, 5 July 2008 (UTC))[reply]
  • ... that American President Lines was the first shipping company to move containers by sea, rail and road with its Linertrain and Red Eagle services? -- Article expanded fivefold since the 1st, sources and images added - self-nom by Danny252 (talk) 03:31, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    Actually the source doesn't say that, all it says that the "LinerTrain [was] the first dedicated train service operated by an ocean-shipping company" - which is not the same thing. Gatoclass (talk) 04:27, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
This article's hook is unsourced or too long or there are other content issues "considered excellent?" - POVish there. Also the reference for the first hook isn't reliable. « Milk's Favorite Cøøkie 18:34, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
ALT:
... that on February 1, 2000 in Major League Baseball, Willis Roberts was released by the Detroit Tigers, and on the exact same day, he signed as a free agent to play with the Cincinnati Reds? Self nom. I've expanded the article fivefold. Either hook would be fine, but I would prefer the first one if possible. Thanks, RyRy (talk) 12:48, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Second hook verified only. « Milk's Favorite Cøøkie 18:34, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Articles created/expanded on July 4

Edward Oldcorne and Nicholas Owen
Edward Oldcorne and Nicholas Owen
Length and reference verified. Daniel Case (talk) 05:08, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Reworded final phrase. Daniel Case (talk) 05:01, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
the Cairo Apartments
the Cairo Apartments
Old Post Office Building, Washington, D.C.
Old Post Office Building, Washington, D.C.
The building? No, seriously, length and reference verified. Daniel Case (talk) 04:59, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Length and reference verified. He's got this ironclad claim to fame, and it's taken us this long to do an article on him? Daniel Case (talk) 04:57, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Length and reference verified. Daniel Case (talk) 04:56, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • First of all, the link The Towers leads to a disambiguation page. I think you were pointing to The Towers (Manchester)? If so, the article should have a category in it. It is currently uncategorized. Length, date, and hook verified, you just need a category. -- RyRy (talk) 20:55, 4 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
ALT: ... that current Toledo Mud Hens pitcher Francis Beltrán pitched the final inning of the final game played by the Montreal Expos before the club moved to Washington? Mindmatrix 13:58, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Length and reference verified. Daniel Case (talk) 14:37, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]


Rustic chapel at Buffalo Gap provides respite and solace to visitors.

Articles created/expanded on July 3

Hugh McCulloch
Hugh McCulloch
This article's hook is unsourced or too long or there are other content issues Article doesn't say that, but source does. Daniel Case (talk) 04:51, 6 July 2008 (UTC) withdrawn Victuallers (talk) 07:54, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
château in Hnojník
château in Hnojník
  • ... that Georg Beess, the last noble owner of the château (pictured) in Hnojník was expelled to Germany in 1946, although the mayor of Hnojník refused to sign the decree to expel him? self-nom by - Darwinek (talk) 19:33, 3 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Where? --74.14.18.169 (talk) 15:15, 3 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
If you mean "where on Mars" (it's pretty obvious the crater is on Mars) then Athabasca Valles will do. MER-C 12:07, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
This article's hook is unsourced or too long or there are other content issues I put that in the hook. Since the article used to source the hook fact is behind a subscription firewall (for me, anyway_, can you put the relevant quote in the footnote? Daniel Case (talk) 21:17, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
A non-subscription source is http://www.mars.asu.edu/christensen/classdocs/mcewen_zunil_Icarus_2005.pdf (page 14, 27). And yes Martian meteorites originate, by definition, from Mars. MER-C 10:17, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Really obvious that the crater is on Mars? Martian meteorites could be anywhere. --74.13.130.134 (talk) 06:49, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
No inline references. Daniel Case (talk) 21:15, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]


List, including hook fact, is completely unreferenced. Daniel Case (talk) 21:01, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Too short and no inline citations. Daniel Case (talk) 20:57, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Articles created/expanded on July 2

This article's hook is unsourced or too long or there are other content issues Can we get a source for it first being added to the DSM in 1980? Daniel Case (talk) 05:04, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]


This article's hook is unsourced or too long or there are other content issues Can we see relevant quotes from the source articles in the footnotes? Daniel Case (talk) 04:53, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I added a quote—I'm unsure of the formatting as I've not been asked to do this before. --Laser brain (talk) 13:55, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Why is this unusual? People with a variety of past positions in their résumés get jobs all the time. Was he poorly educated himself? Was he at odds with the council's goals as a justice? Or do we need to write another hook? Daniel Case (talk) 04:50, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
It's not unusual, but I didn't think that was a requirement (the criteria above suggest "interesting" as a qualification). Anyway, here's an alternate hook if the one above is deemed unsuitable. Note though that the hook itself doesn't have an inline citation in the article, but the following points do:
  • the Rae Report included a recommendation to create an independent and objective Council on Higher Education
  • the government of Ontario enacted the "Reaching Higher" plan as a result of that recommendation
  • the government passed legislation establishing the Higher Education Quality Council of Ontario as part of the "Reaching Higher" plan
ALT: ... that the Higher Education Quality Council of Ontario was established by the Government of Ontario in response to a recommendation in the Rae Report, a review of tertiary education in the Canadian province? Mindmatrix 14:54, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]


This article's hook is unsourced or too long or there are other content issues As with others, I'd like to see a quote from the source. Daniel Case (talk) 04:41, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Expiring noms

Articles created/expanded on July 1

  • Doesn't appear to have been five-fold expanded since the 1st. Olaf Davis | Talk 11:15, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • It wasn't all done in a go. The last copy-edits/expansions were done the previous night. I think, the amount of information that had to be taken out and then placed with better, plus the information added to the article might account towards a very significant expansion, perhaps even close to five-fold. But, what am I to say, it's at your mercy. Arun Reginald (talk · contribs) 18:02, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • How much of it has been expanded (or otherwise) in your opinion, Olaf? Arun Reginald (talk · contribs) 18:08, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Expansion from 25,628 characters on June 30, 2008 to 29,761 characters on July 6, 2008 - a 1.2X expansion. -- GregManninLB (talk) 19:49, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • My apologies then. Can you suggest a way of character comparison that you find suitable here? What methods do you use to evaluate this? Arun Reginald (talk · contribs) 20:32, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • As described at #Instructions and elaborated at the Unwritten Rules, we divide the length of the prose-only portion of the new version by the length of the prose-only portion of the old version, no matter how bad it was and no matter if you kept any of it. If there are no objections, I think it's time to link my Unwritten Rules from the written rules. Art LaPella (talk) 21:59, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thanks, you know you should really include those Unwritten Rules in the Instructions above. They are most helpful. Arun Reginald (talk · contribs) 01:54, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
OR:
OR:

Articles created/expanded on June 29

This article's hook is unsourced or too long or there are other content issues The length and date check out, but the source only says he's been awarded this thing, and nothing about how common it is. Lampman Talk to me! 10:48, 4 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Clarifications added into the article main text. --IslesCapeTalk 15:35, 4 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, but it has to be sourced. Lampman Talk to me! 16:28, 4 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
This article's hook is unsourced or too long or there are other content issues I would really like to see that last allegation cited. I know it's probably intuitive, but saying "this action started a still-hot conflict" is the sort of thing we absolutely need to source. Daniel Case (talk) 14:47, 3 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
ALT ... that the princely state of Kashmir and Jammu only existed between 1846 and 1947? --IslesCapeTalk 09:55, 4 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
But this isn't all that exceptional. There are lots of former states, and many of them were in existence for shorter periods of time than 101 years. Daniel Case (talk) 16:47, 4 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I have also added source for the first hook in the article LEAD. --IslesCapeTalk 17:51, 4 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The problem with the first hook wasn't just lack of reference, but that it went into speculation. I would definately dispute that the demise of monarchy in JK is the direct cause of the Kashmir conflict. Notably the current phase of militancy started much much later than 1947, and there were economic and social questions that spurred the outbreak of violence. --Soman (talk) 18:10, 4 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Well, apparently your view goes beyond the scope of the hook or the article. Both hooks are well cited now. Any concern on contents should be discussed on the article Talk Page. --IslesCapeTalk 18:31, 4 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
So what does Lamb, a non-online source, actually say? My opinion is that these types of claims are unsuitable for DYK hooks. Armed political conflicts like the Kashmir conflict cannot be reduced to simple historical occurances, even though some authors may claim that. --18:37, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
I have added a ref to the article in question, also the 'hook' as it stands now seems fine(IMO). The partition of India forced the state to chose between Pakistan and India and triggered the Kashmir conflict - the relevant articles it links to say this too. I don't really know what other criterion is required (e.g. notability) - but this does not seem speculative. Pahari Sahib 19:54, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I think that its slightly different to say that 'partition of India led to the Kashmir conflict' and to say that 'the demise of the princely state of K-J led to the Kashmir conflict'. --Soman (talk) 17:01, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
It is slightly different, but the hook now says the former and not the latter, the first part of the hook has remained unchanged. Pahari Sahib 19:54, 5 July 2008 (UTC) 19:06, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Part of hook is false. the Partition of India forced the state to choose between India and Pakistan, starting the Kashmir conflict... Partition did not force the state to choose between India or Pakistan. Maharaja Harisingh had opted to form an independent state as per choice offered to all princely states by Lord Mountbatten. Kashmir Conflict started with Pakistan's invasion of Kashmir and later Maharaja(King) of J&K sided with India to protect his Kingdom. Read Kashmir#1947. For many years J&K existed with India under two flag theory - Read: Kashmir#Post-1947_developments.2C_including_ratification_of_accession. The hook alter's history completely. --gppande «talk» 13:47, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
(cross tag removed, see below) Sorry, the English used in this article is sub-par or idiosyncratic: "Similar situation had never occured", "Cardinal-Deacon of [no deaconry assigned]", "His candidature was officially supported also by „Sixtine” party, which grouped the creatures of Pope Sixtus V" etc.  Sandstein  19:47, 30 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I have copyedited - should be ok for English now. Johnbod (talk) 20:14, 30 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
<This article's hook is unsourced or too long or there are other content issues I'm still unsure about this one. The citation is basically a possibly proper synthesis, but I'd be more comfortable seeing it externally sourced. The article itself is heavy on the lists and may contain the requisite 1,500 characters, but it's not something you can tell by eyeballing. Daniel Case (talk) 14:44, 3 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I count 3,169 characters (4,035 from prosesize.js, minus 866 because prosesize.js includes the list in the Conclave paragraph) Art LaPella (talk) 20:59, 3 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
This article's hook is unsourced or too long or there are other content issues Could you include the relevant quote or quotes from the book in the footnote? I can't seem to tease them out of Google Books. Daniel Case (talk) 14:36, 3 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • ... that Georg Braun from 1572 to 1617 edited the Civitates orbis terrarum which contains maps and views of over 500 cities from all over the world? -- self nom by  Matthead  Discuß   11:46, 29 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Article is mostly unreferenced. Two books are listed as sources, so the parts of the article that don't have inline citations might be taken from them. However, I doubt that this is the case. It appears this list of sources was simply copied from this website, while the article appears to be a translation of the German one.--Carabinieri (talk) 11:33, 1 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Well, yes, I took what was readliy at hand in English websites and the German WP article (my standard edit summary for translations (see St. Maria ad Gradus) was lost after edit conflict, apparently). Now I've added his short Neue Deutsche Biographie (German) article, too, which quotes a 1938 work by W. Bruhn. Braun is often mentioned, yet descriptions of him with more details are hard to find online. German National Library catalogue includes several reprints of his works as "Alte europäische Städtebilder". -- Matthead  Discuß   17:59, 2 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Please consider mentioning the country in the hook on the main page. --74.13.125.43 (talk) 06:05, 29 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
This article's hook is unsourced or too long or there are other content issues The article and source say he promised to eliminate it by 2015, which is slightly different to 'during his administration'. Also the refs section is a big list of URLs; I'd consider using citeweb to neaten them up or doing so manually. But, apart from those points everything (date, length, reference) is fine so with a few small changes it should be fine for DYK. Olaf Davis | Talk 13:43, 2 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Expanded significantly perhaps, but I'm afriad not by a factor of five and so its ineligible for DYK - see the rules. Olaf Davis | Talk 16:19, 1 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Length and date check out, but please explain how the information is arrived at; the sources are only maps. Lampman Talk to me! 10:39, 4 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Fixed.Mitch32(UP) 19:13, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
It was actually just a question from my side - is it stated explicitly somewhere that this was its only purpose, or is that surmised from studying the maps? Lampman Talk to me! 20:48, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
No its not - It is surmised from the maps, as that's the only source that shows that.Mitch32(UP) 20:51, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
If so, is it not WP:OR to speak of "purpose"? And did not the road also serve to connect Tivoli with 9G? Lampman Talk to me! 21:59, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

See also