Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement: Difference between revisions

Content deleted Content added

Inline

Revision as of 17:34, 5 March 2021

Click here to add a new enforcement request
For appeals: create a new section and use the template {{Arbitration enforcement appeal}}
See also: Logged AE sanctions

Important information

Shortcuts

Please use this page only to:

request administrative action against editors violating a remedy (not merely a principle) or an injunction in an Arbitration Committee decision, or a contentious topic restriction imposed by an administrator,
request contentious topic restrictions against previously alerted editors who engage in misconduct in a topic area designated as a contentious topic,
request page restrictions (e.g. revert restrictions) on pages that are being disrupted in topic areas designated as contentious topics, or
appeal arbitration enforcement actions (including contentious topic restrictions) to uninvolved administrators.

For all other problems, including content disagreements or the enforcement of community-imposed sanctions, please use the other fora described in the dispute resolution process. To appeal Arbitration Committee decisions, please use the clarification and amendment noticeboard.

Only autoconfirmed users may file enforcement requests here; requests filed by IPs or accounts less than four days old or with less than 10 edits will be removed. All users are welcome to comment on requests except where doing so would violate an active restriction (such as an extended-confirmed restriction). If you make an enforcement request or comment on a request, your own conduct may be examined as well, and you may be sanctioned for it. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. (Word Count Tool) Statements must be made in separate sections. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as personal attacks, or groundless or vexatious complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions.

To make an enforcement request, click on the link above this box and supply all required information. Incomplete requests may be ignored. Requests reporting diffs older than one week may be declined as stale. To appeal a contentious topic restriction or other enforcement decision, please create a new section and use the template {{Arbitration enforcement appeal}}.

Appeals and administrator modifications of contentious topics restrictions

The Arbitration Committee procedures relating to modifications of contentious topic restrictions state the following:

All contentious topic restrictions (and logged warnings) may be appealed. Only the restricted editor may appeal an editor restriction. Any editor may appeal a page restriction.

The appeal process has three possible stages. An editor appealing a restriction may:

ask the administrator who first made the contentious topic restrictions (the "enforcing administrator") to reconsider their original decision;
request review at the arbitration enforcement noticeboard ("AE") or at the administrators' noticeboard ("AN"); and
submit a request for amendment ("ARCA"). If the editor is blocked, the appeal may be made by email.

Appeals submitted at AE or AN must be submitted using the applicable template.

A rough consensus of administrators at AE or editors at AN may specify a period of up to one year during which no appeals (other than an appeal to ARCA) may be submitted.

Changing or revoking a contentious topic restriction

An administrator may only modify or revoke a contentious topic restriction if a formal appeal is successful or if one of the following exceptions applies:

The administrator who originally imposed the contentious topic restriction (the "enforcing administrator") affirmatively consents to the change,^[a] or is no longer an administrator;^[b] or
The contentious topic restriction was imposed (or last renewed) more than a year ago and:
- the restriction was imposed by a single administrator, or
- the restriction was an indefinite block.

A formal appeal is successful only if one of the following agrees with revoking or changing the contentious topic restriction:

a clear consensus of uninvolved administrators at AE,
a clear consensus of uninvolved editors at AN,
a majority of the Arbitration Committee, acting through a motion at ARCA.

Any administrator who revokes or changes a contentious topic restriction out of process (i.e. without the above conditions being met) may, at the discretion of the Arbitration Committee, be desysopped.

Standard of review
On community review

Uninvolved administrators at the arbitration enforcement noticeboard ("AE") and uninvolved editors at the administrators' noticeboard ("AN") should revoke or modify a contentious topic restriction on appeal if:

the action was inconsistent with the contentious topics procedure or applicable policy (i.e. the action was out of process),
the action was not reasonably necessary to prevent damage or disruption when first imposed, or
the action is no longer reasonably necessary to prevent damage or disruption.

On Arbitration Committee review

Arbitrators hearing an appeal at a request for amendment ("ARCA") will generally overturn a contentious topic restriction only if:

the action was inconsistent with the contentious topics procedure or applicable policy (i.e. the action was out of process),
the action represents an unreasonable exercise of administrative enforcement discretion, or
compelling circumstances warrant the full Committee's action.

^ The administrator may indicate consent at any time before, during, or after imposition of the restriction.
^ This criterion does not apply if the original action was imposed as a result of rough consensus at the arbitration enforcement noticeboard, as there would be no single enforcing administrator.

Appeals and administrator modifications of non-contentious topics sanctions

The Arbitration Committee procedures relating to modifications and appeals state:

Appeals by sanctioned editors

Appeals may be made only by the editor under sanction and only for a currently active sanction. Requests for modification of page restrictions may be made by any editor. The process has three possible stages (see "Important notes" below). The editor may:

ask the enforcing administrator to reconsider their original decision;
request review at the arbitration enforcement noticeboard ("AE") or at the administrators’ noticeboard ("AN"); and
submit a request for amendment at the amendment requests page ("ARCA"). If the editor is blocked, the appeal may be made by email through Special:EmailUser/Arbitration Committee (or, if email access is revoked, to arbcom-enwikimedia.org).

Modifications by administrators

No administrator may modify or remove a sanction placed by another administrator without:

the explicit prior affirmative consent of the enforcing administrator; or
prior affirmative agreement for the modification at (a) AE or (b) AN or (c) ARCA (see "Important notes" below).

Administrators modifying sanctions out of process may at the discretion of the committee be desysopped.

Nothing in this section prevents an administrator from replacing an existing sanction issued by another administrator with a new sanction if fresh misconduct has taken place after the existing sanction was applied.

Administrators are free to modify sanctions placed by former administrators – that is, editors who do not have the administrator permission enabled (due to a temporary or permanent relinquishment or desysop) – without regard to the requirements of this section. If an administrator modifies a sanction placed by a former administrator, the administrator who made the modification becomes the "enforcing administrator". If a former administrator regains the tools, the provisions of this section again apply to their unmodified enforcement actions.

Important notes:

For a request to succeed, either

(i) the clear and substantial consensus of (a) uninvolved administrators at AE or (b) uninvolved editors at AN or

(ii) a passing motion of arbitrators at ARCA

is required. If consensus at AE or AN is unclear, the status quo prevails.

While asking the enforcing administrator and seeking reviews at AN or AE are not mandatory prior to seeking a decision from the committee, once the committee has reviewed a request, further substantive review at any forum is barred. The sole exception is editors under an active sanction who may still request an easing or removal of the sanction on the grounds that said sanction is no longer needed, but such requests may only be made once every six months, or whatever longer period the committee may specify.
These provisions apply only to contentious topic restrictions placed by administrators and to blocks placed by administrators to enforce arbitration case decisions. They do not apply to sanctions directly authorized by the committee, and enacted either by arbitrators or by arbitration clerks, or to special functionary blocks of whatever nature.
All actions designated as arbitration enforcement actions, including those alleged to be out of process or against existing policy, must first be appealed following arbitration enforcement procedures to establish if such enforcement is inappropriate before the action may be reversed or formally discussed at another venue.

Information for administrators processing requests

Thank you for participating in this area. AE works best if there are a variety of admins bringing their expertise to each case. There is no expectation to comment on every case, and the Arbitration Committee (ArbCom) thanks all admins for whatever time they can give.

A couple of reminders:

Before commenting, please familiarise yourself with the referenced ArbCom case. Please also read all the evidence (including diffs) presented in the AE request.
When a request widens to include editors beyond the initial request, these editors must be notified and the notifications recorded in the same way as for the initial editor against whom sanctions were requested. Where some part of the outcome is clear, a partial close may be implemented and noted as "Result concerning X".
Enforcement measures in arbitration cases should be construed liberally to protect Wikipedia and keep it running efficiently. Some of the behaviour described in an enforcement request might not be restricted by ArbCom. However, it may violate other Wikipedia policies and guidelines; you may use administrative discretion to resolve it.
More than one side in a dispute may have ArbCom conduct rulings applicable to them. Please ensure these are investigated.

Closing a thread:

Once an issue is resolved, enclose it between {{hat}} and {{hab}} tags. A bot should archive it in 7 days.
Please consider referring the case to ARCA if the outcome is a recommendation to do so or the issue regards administrator conduct.
You can use the templates {{uw-aeblock}} (for blocks) or {{AE sanction}} (for other contentious topic restrictions) to give notice of sanctions on user talk pages.
Please log sanctions in the Arbitration enforcement log.

Thanks again for helping. If you have any questions, please post on the talk page.

Arbitration enforcement archives

1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9	10	11	12	13	14	15	16	17	18	19	20
21	22	23	24	25	26	27	28	29	30	31	32	33	34	35	36	37	38	39	40
41	42	43	44	45	46	47	48	49	50	51	52	53	54	55	56	57	58	59	60
61	62	63	64	65	66	67	68	69	70	71	72	73	74	75	76	77	78	79	80
81	82	83	84	85	86	87	88	89	90	91	92	93	94	95	96	97	98	99	100
101	102	103	104	105	106	107	108	109	110	111	112	113	114	115	116	117	118	119	120
121	122	123	124	125	126	127	128	129	130	131	132	133	134	135	136	137	138	139	140
141	142	143	144	145	146	147	148	149	150	151	152	153	154	155	156	157	158	159	160
161	162	163	164	165	166	167	168	169	170	171	172	173	174	175	176	177	178	179	180
181	182	183	184	185	186	187	188	189	190	191	192	193	194	195	196	197	198	199	200
201	202	203	204	205	206	207	208	209	210	211	212	213	214	215	216	217	218	219	220
221	222	223	224	225	226	227	228	229	230	231	232	233	234	235	236	237	238	239	240
241	242	243	244	245	246	247	248	249	250	251	252	253	254	255	256	257	258	259	260
261	262	263	264	265	266	267	268	269	270	271	272	273	274	275	276	277	278	279	280
281	282	283	284	285	286	287	288	289	290	291	292	293	294	295	296	297	298	299	300
301	302	303	304	305	306	307	308	309	310	311	312	313	314	315	316	317	318	319	320
321	322	323	324	325	326	327	328	329	330	331	332	333	334	335	336	337	338	339	340
341

My very best wishes

This is a content dispute with conduct that has not risen to the point of requiring Arbitration Enforcement or standard administrative sanctions. No action taken. I would suggest using standard dispute resolution, such as an RFC to determine consensus. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 11:52, 5 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning My very best wishes

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: Mhorg (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 06:59, 18 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

User against whom enforcement is requested: My very best wishes (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced: Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Eastern Europe

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

The user removed with confidence a huge amount of data of the past of politician Alexei Navalny (approximately 7 years of documented pro-nationalist facts and political views from 2007-2013), mainly the controversial one (together with RS), justifying itself in the many (on purpose?) engulfed wall-text-discussions we had [1][2][3][4][5] mainly in this way: "the page is very big, and we should focus on facts of his biography",[6] abusing everywhere, in my opinion, of the magic word "Undue weight". Or "his views on various political events that had happen many years ago are unimportant",[7] confusing Wikipedia for LinkedIn.

03:51, 9 February 2021 Removal of controversial Narod movement (2007), accusing weak sources, instead of seeking RS, justifying it with "Undue weight" (RS [8] [9] [10])
16:51, 12 February 2021 Not collaborating: He questions Narod's existence and asks for the website url.[11] I gave him the archived website.[12] His answer: "This is internet garbage".
21:29, 9 February 2021 Removal of references to Navalny on Anti-Georgian sentiment (RS [13] [14]) for "Undue focus". Read the answer [15] from User: Kober
20:40, 15 February 2021 Removal of the Russo-Georgian war and racial slurs, (RS [16] [17] [18] [19] [20]) and the nationalist campaign, (RS [21] [22]) denying that the consensus for that part was reached in TP. [23]
00:57, 17 February 2021 Not accepting consensus, changing argument in front of evidence in the summary of the user's statements [24]
04:24, 11 February 2021 Deliberate distortion of the RS, to omit that Navalny declared himself a "Nationalist-democrat", as User:RenatUK reported [25]
04:27, 11 February 2021 Removal of controversial content on the support to 2013 ethnic riots for "Undue weight" (RS [26] [27])
04:06, 11 February 2021 Removal of controversial content on Russian march and nationalist campaign, including RS, for "Undue weight" (RS [28] [29] [30] [31])
21:01, 12 February 2021 Removal of controversial NAROD-Navalny's videos and accusing TheGuardian,[32] Telegraph,[33] NYTimes,[34] FinancialTimes,[35] Politico [36] having produced "defamatory content".[37]
23:06, 13 February 2021 Removal of any reference to the nationalists, despite what the RS says.[38]
18:25, 16 February 2021 Coincidences: supports the innocence of a banned user accused of sockpuppetry who took sides for the removal of contents on Navalny.[39] At the same time he supports the guilt of a user accused of sockpuppetry [40] who was in favor of maintaining the contents. Wasn't it better to avoid taking sides? (updates: accidentally the user was really a vandalizer\sockpuppet[41])
06:21, 11 February 2021 wikihounding: reverts my old edits of 25 May 2020
21:41, 15 February 2021 wikihounding/defaming?: reverts one of my first edits of 28 January 2015 and accuses me of sponsoring terrorism.[42]
21:49, 15 February 2021 wikihounding: article Vitalii Markiv, he reverts my old edits of 1 October 2020 with RS (controversial content) for "Undue weight" (his last edit on the article: 27 July 2019)
15:37, 16 February 2021 wikihounding: article Myrotvorets, he reverts my old edits of 9 October 2020 (controversial content) and warns me that I used an "extremist" source[43] (actually a Security Service of Ukraine website)
23:32, 25 February 2021 wikihounding: article Herashchenko, he keeps following me after I edited the article just few hours before.[44]
15:57, 1 March 2021 wikihounding: the user intrudes into a discussion with another user who asked me a question on my talkpage.[45] Perhaps to have the excuse of being able to intervene on another article (Right Sector) and, accidentally, remove[46] the part that I had restored the 1 February 2021?

Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any

If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)

Not applicable

Additional comments by editor filing complaint: I am "forced" to answer to the slanderous accusations that the user is addressing me again. In this diff[47] I demonstrate how both MVBW and Nicoljaus targeted my edits from last year, removing them. What I wrote on Nicolajius' tp was a sincere invitation to be left in peace,[48] and now MVBW is even trying to accuse me of provoking them![49] Keep in mind that this is the level of how MVBW distorts reality, which is why I ended up making this AE request: I need someone to tell me if I went crazy all of a sudden, or if there is something wrong with this user's behavior.--Mhorg (talk) 14:38, 20 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

My last answers (I hope) to MVBW's statements; collapsed to follow word limit

At first, I want to specify that I didn't add much to the article, all the controversial parts were already there. I just added tons of RS (from Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Perennial sources), released hundreds of comments in the discussions in a polite manner (I hope), always open to mediation. I find myself compelled to fill this request because I am exhausted and I think the user is acting disruptively, skillfully walking on the edge of Wiki rules.

The user now says [50] he did some self-reverts too (23:39, 13 February 2021), but coincidentally happened once he got to know the report [51] I was doing about him, about 1 hour later.(22:34, 13 February 2021). He also claims that the article continues today to have those controversial parts; Yes, they are there not thanks to him, but to those who tried to defend them. If no one had intervened, there would have been a 7-year gap of pro-Nationalist views and facts in the politician's career.--Mhorg (talk) 14:00, 21 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

What I think MVBW has proven is that he acts, at least for the cases that have been reported, in an aggressive manner with content removals even in fields that are not his competence. User:Bob not snob statement, in this AE request, reported the example of removals of contents on articles related to Poland that MVBW doesn't even know about (by his own admission).[52] The same thing happened on the Myrotvorets article (he knows a little about the subject, in fact he ended up on the article only for Wikipedia:FOLLOW\Wikipedia:HOUNDING [53]), where the user intervenes to remove some content (always controversial, coincidentally) warning me that I am using an extremist website as source,[54] not knowing that the website is managed by the Security Service of Ukraine: for the more inexperienced, there is even written in the article's lede! Not even a small commitment to read what Myrotvorets is.

Going back to the Navalny issue, the user wants to make it appear that he disagrees with me on only one topic: clearly the user don't want to click on the diffs which show that he has removed practically every controversial part of the article. This seems to me is his strategy, first he removes everything, then in discussions he abuses everywhere the term "Undue weight" and engulfs them, always remaining vague (I don't know if there is already a Wikipedian term to describe this behavior). I know that the discussions are long, but I invite the admins to scroll through them carefully, the user always tries not to get to the point.

About the Consensus: it has been reached (not only about the RS-reliability, but also about the content to insert) at least on the Georgian issue, but the user simply won't accept this. He talks about contextualizing (I'm always in favour of contextualizing), but his proposals are smoky, it never gets to the point.[55] He simply wants to remove this fact. In a normal discussion, something like this would have ended quickly:

✓ User:Jurisdicta: "Mhorg, your sources support that he backed the Russian war in Georgia."

✓ User:PailSimon: "Its evident through the sources provided above that the sources support the content, lets not whitewash"

✓ User:Darkcloud2222: "Those five reliable sources are sufficient to consider the text previously entered valid. I also believe you can also use the blogger's source, it will not be difficult for someone who translates Russian to report the statements, and it should not violate any WP rules."

✓ User:Ohnoitsjamie: "Non-involved opinion (I ran across this issue from a recent ANI post); the material about his prior stance on Georgia is backed by several sources that easily meet WP:RS"

✓ User:Alaexis: "WP:NPOV: it's phrased in a neutral way, it's mentioned that he was against sending Russian troops to Georgia/South Ossetia and that later he apologised for the words he used. WP:UNDUE: this does not occupy too much or too prominent space in the Policies section"

✓ User:Mhorg: "I propose for now to restore the part about the Georgia, combining the primary source with the RS."08:23, 16 February 2021

Among the users against it there is the same user suspected of being a sockpuppet and that MVBW himself contributed to unblock (a disinterested action, of course), and that user was blocked at that time of the summary about the Georgian issue (unblocked the 20:10, 16 February 2021, so he couldn't be counted as one of the 3 users against he talks about. On the Georgian issue, the contrary users are MVBW and Nicoljaus only. Distortion of reality, again.

Finally, since MVBW is making controversy about this thing, if I have violated any of the Following\Wikihounding reporting rules, I deserve the penalty. I just want to specify that I did not know the rule, and that I promptly substantiated in the following comment[56] the diffs that show that he and Nicoljaus, both involved in the discussion, have targeted my old edits on purpose.--Mhorg (talk) 19:16, 22 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The user, after following me on the Myrotvorets article, continues to follow me also on Anton Herashchenko article, modifying a part related to the Ukrainian website.[57]
Then, I made a research and I discover that Myrotvorets lured nationalist gangs against Svetlana Alexievich (Nobel Prize in Literature), who forced her to cancel a reading meeting in Odessa for security concerns. Quite a relevant question, whereas the practice of publishing personal information in Ukraine has led to several murders and fleeing abroad of journalists,[58] don't you think? So... I'm going to put the content, reported by RS, on Alexievich's article[59] (which MVBW last modified the 9 October 2015), and guess what, the magic word "Undue weight" pops up.[60] Any controversial content, in his opinion, can be omitted with this justification. Could it be all these cases a coincidence?--Mhorg (talk) 18:09, 26 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

[61]

Discussion concerning My very best wishes

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by My very best wishes

[62] - This is a typical accusation by Mhorg in response to my self-revert on the page to restore "his" version [63], a subject of further editing of course. See also a typical edit summary by Mhorg. He say that I want to remove all "controversial issues", but I never proposed or tried it. In fact, the entire BLP page of Navalny is one continuous controversy. The content was there all the time. For example, his "nationalism" is now described in the 2nd paragraph of this section. I did not remove it, and I did not try. The diffs by Mhorg only reflect my attempts to properly summarize multiple RS, use neutral wording and exclude duplicate or arguably undue content from the very large page. But in the end, there is only one specific content disagreement between Mhorg and me on page Navalny (below).

Here, on talk page of El_C, Mhorg tells: I have been forced to protect the article from the removal of the controversial content of the past of this politician...I started fighting with the sockpuppet User:LauraWilliamson and User:Nicoljaus, and now I'm continuing with User:Nicoljaus and User:My very best wishes. "Fighting" (actually a content dispute) about what? He wants to include this text about Georgians described as "cockroaches", "rodents", "rotten teeth", etc. That was discussed on talk page. For example, here - Mhorg himself marked bold all words he wants to emphasize on the BLP page. I believe Mhorg wants to disparage the most famous anti-Putin activist by selectively citing the worst one can possibly find in polemic journalistic sources. I agree that something about Georgia can be included, but not this specific wording by Mhorg.

There is no consensus to include such specific version by Mhorg. He started a thread on the talk page, here. (note this edit by another user that makes a part of this thread to appear as started by me.). Looking at these threads, do they look like consensus to support anything? I started another thread to clarify what consensus could emerge. It appears that people are more or less agree on sources, but disagree on specific text to be included. Mhorg is the only user who advocates his version in this thread, while 3 other users (me including) object. I think this content disagreement could be easily resolved by submitting an RfC.

Additional responses (roughly in the same order as in the complaint by Mhorg):

We actually agreed with Mhorg to include the content about "Narod" long before he submitted this AE request, i.e. I self-reverted [64], and Mhorg re-edited this text as he wanted [65]. However, Nicoljaus removed it with a reasonable justification [66]. This is not a disagreement with me.
Yes, the sources in this diff by Mhorg here if not an outright "internet garbage", but definitely something we do not want to use. Please check these links.
Anti-Georgian sentiment. Here is discussion [67]. This is a typical content disagreement, and I think it was already resolved.
Vitalii Markiv and Mitotvorets. Actually, we quickly came to consensus with Mhorg on both pages [68], [69], including full agreement on talk page (here, on the bottom). Why bring this here? I checked these pages again though.
No one accused Mhorg of sponsoring terrorism. That was my comment, and it was summarized in edit summary. That was not about terrorism at all. Yes, I had a concern here, and asked Mhorg about it [70], but it was more along the lines of "links to avoid" and using unrelibale sources (anonymous YouTube videos) with content about living people in WP.
"a banned user accused of sockpuppetry". That user was actually unblocked by admin. See discussion here. I hope they will contribute constructively. If not, they will be re-blocked.
"Wikihounding". Mhorg and me edited a few common pages (there is an interest overlap), but in all such cases that was a productive collaboration, i.e. we quickly came to a better version of the page and consensus, excluding only a single remaining content disagreement on page Navalny (see above). There was no wikihounding. These diffs are just a few examples of my edits on these pages. For example on page Myrotvorets, Mhorg reverted my edit after 8 minutes [71], but that was totally OK. We had a friendly discussion on talk and came to consensus that only one link needs to be removed [72]. End of story. Page improved. I do have a habit of (re)visiting pages if they appear in discussions on ANI and AE. This is all.
Collapsed insert by Mhorg ("My last answers"). Mhorg uses selective citation out of context, and it is not clear what specific text these people support. I could also say "yes" if it was a reasonable specific text under discussion. Actually, at least some of them do not. For example, in the last/latest thread on the page [73] Alaexis responded specifically to the "summary" by Mhorg (same as he now posted to AE) and said this: [74].

My discussion with Mhorg during this AE: [75].

@Mhorg. Yes, I saw your comment on talk page of El_C. Hence my comment: [76]. Here, I just tried to explain the BLP policy to Mhorg. That did not work. He continue inserting undue content, such as "controversial elements about the Ukrainian state" in his own words) to BLP pages right now [77].

If one looks at talk page of article Navalny [78], it was very much peaceful and constructive until Mhorg started this thread on February 3 (I started commenting there only later, on February 9, after an invitation by another user [79]).

@Bob not snob. Here is my edit. The justification for the edit has nothing to do with sources, as reflected in the edit summary and explained on article talk page. Yes, I do not know Polish and can only rely on Google translator and reviews in English RS about specific Polish sources. In the edit summary I mentioned a book by Michael Fleming (historian) as presumably a "good source" based on discussion by others at RSNB. As about "Publicystyka Antysocjalistycznego Mazowsza", yeh, I thought from the beginning this is probably not a good source, but then decided to AGF with regard to Polish-speaking users who originally included it. However, when you brought my attention by posting on my talk page, I realized that indeed I do not know Polish, and therefore should not be involved.

Statement by Nicoljaus

I think it's enough to look at the "Top edited pages" of Mhorg [80] and the VoxKomm main page [81] to see almost a complete intersection by topics. Obviously, the user here is just WP:NOTHERE.--Nicoljaus (talk) 09:05, 18 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

What is that VoxKomm link even about? I can't make any sense of it -- "almost a complete intersection by topics", as Narrow self-interested or promotional activity in article writing.--Nicoljaus (talk) 19:38, 18 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by GizzyCatBella

It looks like AE is being used to win content disputes to me. - GizzyCatBella🍁 09:28, 18 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@MVBW ---> "forced" ---> [82] - It could be the language thing.. They could mean "I had no choice." Possibly, I'm not sure, but I believe that's what they meant. - GizzyCatBella🍁 16:24, 19 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Robert McClenon

The filing editor filed a request at the Dispute Resolution Noticeboard on 10 February, which had to do with a survey that had been disrupted by sockpuppetry. The DRN request listed eight editors, the eight who had responded to the survey, which is more than DRN can normally work with effectively. I recommended that the survey, which was sort of an informal RFC, be converted to a formal RFC, with the assistance of a volunteer. Mhorg then requested to put the DRN on hold, which was done. Mhorg then said that there was a complex mix of content and conduct issues, and that they wished to withdraw the DRN in order to file a conduct report, which is this thread. They have now asked me a question on my talk page about the word limit. I can see that they are using a lot of words. I haven't researched the details of the conduct dispute, and have nothing more to add at this point. Robert McClenon (talk) 19:29, 18 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Bob not snob

Over in the Western side of Eastern Europe, I encountered My Very Best Wishes in this recent edit in which he restored information sourced to Publicystyka Antysocjalistycznego Mazowsza. This is an "anti-socialist" webpage or blog, that is right-wing extremist, and is not a reliable source for anything. The extremist nature is quite obvious, on the archived source itself there is an image of Donald Tusk with a German and Polish flag, with text expressing opposition to the election of a "German candidate" to the Polish presidency. The about page describes how this website was initially the website of the Masovian district of the Real Politics Union, a small extremist political party. The site itself is mainly the work of one individual, Krzysztof Pawlak.

When I pointed this out to My very best wishes, he first reverted my post and then later posted on my talk page: "Unfortunately, I do not know Polish, and I am not sufficiently familiar with Polish sources and politics to respond to your comment".

Moments before placing this extremist source, he removed content from an academic source.

If My Very Best Wishes is unable to assess Polish sources, why is he restoring content removed with the edit summary of "This is not a reliable source"? Bob not snob (talk) 09:17, 19 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Alaexis

I participated in discussions with both users on the talkpage of Alexei Navalny article, from which most of the diffs in the request come from. It is a content dispute, primarily about what constitutes due weight, and should be dealt with as a content dispute. I don't think that either editor has displayed bad faith in those discussions. Alaexis_¿question? 06:37, 23 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Paul Siebert

I think this case should be taken very seriously, because Mhorg's words: "My very best wishes, You keep mystifying everything, everything" are absolutely correct. MVBW's contributions look perfect until you examined them more carefully, but my impression is that admins usually do not like to go into such details.

Below, I describe just four incidents, and I respectfully request for an extension of the 500 words limit, because a short description does not provide a full picture. If the word limit extension will not be granted to me, I will probably address directly to ArbCom, because, as I see, other users are being negatively impacted by MVBW's activity too.

Incident 1 False accusation of disruptive editing supported by multiple false claims.

This commentary was made by MVBW on me at ANI: The post was made by MVBW on 19:00, 2 August 2019 (UTC) in this archived discussion)

"Indeed. However, the problem is not only the number of edits, but POV-pushing. OK, these subjects are big and complicated. Let's take a small a simple page, like Gas van, see discussion here. I argue that a book by Yevgenia Albats and Catherine A. Fitzpatrick, KGB: The State Within a State. should be used as a scholarly book that tells something exactly on the subject, along with other sources. This should be simple, right? Wrong. An extremely long discussion follows, after which I am leaving this page to never edit it again, simply because I am tired (see also this part: Paul fight with every author who does not fit his POV, even a Nober Prize winner; the discussion includes some Russian texts; Paul is a native speaker, just like me). The "winner" happily removes the reference to the book, along with direct quotation from the book [83], and he does it with false/misleading edit summary (no, the book by Albats does NOT "cite the same tabloid paper"). That is what Paul do on many pages. That was the reason for my WP:AE report [84]. (signed by MVBW) 19:00, 2 August 2019 (UTC)"

MVBW was not previously involved in that ANI thread, and his post triggered an avalanche of negative votes during the ANI discussion (which eventually lead to my topic ban). Unfortunately, I didn't try to refute MVBW's ridiculous claims during that discussion (I thought that was obvious to everybody they were fasle), which was not wise. Now I am fixing that my mistake.
What really happened during the discussion MVBW is referring to is an example of a perfect work. I am still proud of that. We (User:Assayer, MVBW, and I) analyzed a large number of ostensibly independent sources that described ostensibly different cases of usage of Gas vans during Stalin's Great Purge, and we found that all those books and articles are based on a single report published in one Russian tabloid. By the end of the discussion, we reached a consensus, and Assayer and I continued to stick to it afterwards. That is what MVBW described as my "disruptive" editing in his ANI post. Detailed analysis of his statement is presented below: Detailed analysis of MVBW's false claims

First, that "extremely long discussion" resulted in a consensus, and the last MVBW's post does not create an impression that he was driven away by me. Contrary to his claim ("I am leaving this page to never edit it again, simply because I am tired"), MVBW would return to that page in 2019, and break the consensus, but that is a separate story. Conclusion: False claim

Second, under "Nobel prize winner" he meant Solzhenitsyn. I objected to that source because the author de facto accused Jews of invention of gas vans, but I didn't remove that source from the article: that source was present in the consensus version supported by me, Assayer and MVBW, and it was me who restored this source later, after it was removed by someone else. Conclusion: False claim

Third, he provided the diff where I removed the Albatz's book, however, he forgot to mention that was not a final version: our consensus decision was to keep Albats (as I summarised in the same diff; I typed a wrong number of tilds and misspelled her name, but it was me who supported Albatz. That source was included into the consensus version; it was later restored by me along with Solzhenitsyn, see above). I am honest, I DISLIKE both sources, because they add no fresh information (they, as well as several other books, just reproduce the information from one tabloid), but I did not attempt to remove them after a consensus was achieved, because I respect consensus.Conclusion: False claim

Fourth, he said "the winner happily removes...", but I didn't remove any source that was supported by a consensus, which is easily verifiable (don't need to prove negative). Conclusion: False claim

Fifth, I never claimed to be a native Russian speaker, although I do know Russian. What was a reason for posting that personal information about me, and, no matter if it is true or false, where he obtained it? Conclusion: Disclosure of a non-verified personal information

Sixth, he says that "the book by Albats does NOT "cite the same tabloid paper"", which is supposed to imply that I made a false claim that it does cite it. However, the statement he ascribed to me was made by Assayer, and, importantly, that statement was correct (later, MVBW reproduced it). Conclusion: Doubly false statement.

Moreover, MVBW de facto ascribed his own sins to me. It is easy to see that during that discussion he was opposing to two editors, me and Assayer, and that discussion became "extremely long" not because of me, but because of MVBW's refusal to get a point. The Assayer's opinion on MVBW's behaviour can be found here.
MVBW's false statements mislead good faith users at ANI, which negatively affected an outcome of the ANI discussion.

Incident 2 False accusation of sockpuppetry, with a subsequent attempt to conceal that fact.

1. MVBW accused me of sockpuppetry
2. Additional accusation
3. discussion at admin's page
4. MVBW edited his previous post, secrfetly removed the direct accusation of sock/meat puppetry (instead of striking them through) and "summarized" that he didn't accuse me of sockpuppetry (as if that were his original statement).
Comments:
The MVBW's attempt to conceal the evidences of policy violation confirms he himself was perfectly aware of them. And, that was a double violation: baseless accusations of sockpuppetry, and editing his own comments after others commented on them. Incidentally, an accusation of sockpuppetry was thrown by a user who himself was involved in off-Wiki communication (see Incident #4).
This case is very close to what we see here: this diff draws some hypothesis about similarity in Mhorg's and El C's political views. Is there any legitimate reason to post that information here?

Incident 3 Vandalising the article to support some fringe theory that whitewashed Hitler

MVBW is making some very questionable edits with misleading edit summaries. Thus, he removed ca 70% of the Icebreaker (Suvorov) article supplementing that with an innocent edit summary. Another user reverted it, his edit summary was partially inappropriate, but it was clear from it that MVBW (probably, unintentionally) restored some pro-Nazi vandalism by some IP (that IP was a real pro-Nazi vandal, because it vandalized the Holocaust article). Instead of taking this information into account, MVBW repeated the same vandalism, and, after having been reverted, continued to remove the article's content piecemeal. These edits were by no means innocent. They removed a criticism of some fringe theory that puts a major part of responsibility for WWII outbreak from Hitler to Stalin and makes Hitler looking better. This theory is being enthusiastically supported by many German right wing politicians, and neo-Nazi. (For the record. I already attempted to draw admins attention to repeated restoration of pro-Nazi vandal's contribution by MVBW, but I used not completely correct wording, which resulted in my topic ban for 3 months, and these MVBW's actions had never been analysed by admins.)
This incident perfectly fits into Mhorg's description (" This seems to me is his strategy, first he removes everything, then in discussions he abuses everywhere the term "Undue weight" and engulfs them, always remaining vague ... etc").

Incident 4 An attempt to obtain a personal information for subsequent malicious usage of it (WP:EEML)

This incident happened in 2009, but I learned about all details only recently. I believe that story is relevant to the current case.
MVBW was previously known as User:Biophys. This account is currently deleted, but his second account, User:Hodja Nasreddin is still active. Biophys was a member of WP:EEML, whereas Hodja was not used for that activity, and not mentioned in the WP:EEML case. However, a user Hodja Nasreddin made this post at my talk page, where he "friendly asked" me about the origin of my user name. I responded, but didn't pay attention to that until 2019, when MVBW posted a lie about me at ANI (let's be frank: it was a direct lie, and the above analysis perfectly demonstrates that). Before 2019, my attitude to the EEML story was pretty neutral (see this discussion for more details). However, since I was previously informed by a User:Viriditas that they privately discussed me, I decided to read the EEML archive (only those emails where my name was mentioned), to figure out why MVBW asked me about my username. That reading was by no means pleasant. I found that Biophys/Hodja Nasreddin, a.k.a My Very Best Wishes shared my response to his "friendly question" with other EEML members, and ... I do not know if I am allowed to disclose details of that private discussion, I can only say that they concluded that the information obtained by MVBW was insufficient for making anything to me (and probably that is why I was not among EEML's victims). Clearly, MVBW's "friendly" question was by no means friendly, and his edit summary was deeply deceptive (what a surprise).
All said above confirms my previous feeling that that user cannot be trusted, and all his posts and edits must be carefully checked for factual accuracy. That means MVBW's contributions by no means improve Wikipedia. I believe the evidences presented here (and other evidences that I am ready to present upon a request) do allow me make that statement, because only those accusations that lack evidences are considered a personal attack, per our policy.
In my opinion, this user should be permanently banned from the EE area, because the history of his disruptive activity is long, and it leaves no illusion that some temporary ban may have any positive effect.--Paul Siebert (talk) 21:12, 23 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

El C, thanks. I shortened it a little bit. If you believe it is too long for AE, I may file a full scale arbitration request.--Paul Siebert (talk) 21:44, 23 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Understood, El C. Then I propose the following solution. Take a look at this my proposal. It may partially resolve the conflict, because, from my experience, I know that when only the best quality sources are being used, that minimises a probability of conflicts. I propose to close this case by imposing additional restriction on the Navalny related topics. Meanwhile, I will start working on filing a full scale arbitration case regarding MVBW. --Paul Siebert (talk) 05:06, 24 February 2021 (UTC)Uncollapse per El C. Unfortunatelly, I cannot just delete it, because others already commented on that. However, I withdraw my statement, because all of that deserves a full scale arbitration case. Please, disregard it in the context of this request.--Paul Siebert (talk) 17:46, 26 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Result concerning My very best wishes

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

Note that I was asked to investigate this dispute, singularly (User_talk:El_C#Operation_Whitewash_on_Alexei_Navalny's_article), as an AE matter, but declined. I still don't really have time to look into this in too much depth, but I would like to reaffirm Mhorg's citation of what I said to My very best wishes a few days ago about the nation of Ukraine not setting the tone in designating pro-Russian separatist groups as terrorist organizations (diff). Ukraine certainly does not have anything remotely resembling the gravitas of such designations as listed by the US Dept. of State in their United States Department of State list of Foreign Terrorist Organizations. Also noting a recent related warning from a few days ago which I had issued Nicoljaus with in the course of this dispute (diff). Their extremely terse accusation above that Mhorg is NOTHERE does not inspire confidence, I'm afraid, about Nicoljaus toning down on the WP:ASPERSIONS. What is that VoxKomm link even about? I can't make any sense of it. The AE noticeboard isn't a free-for-all, Nicoljaus.

That said, not sure why Mhorg would call attention to MVBW's edits to their own sandbox (diff). That space is for MVBW to do with as they see fit. I'd also point out to Mhorg that in one of the pages where they claimed MVBW was HOUNDING them, MVBW had actually edited that page before them. Notwithstanding all of that, my first impulse (such as it is) is that this isn't actually as one-sided as some of the participants above make it out to be. Finally, Mhorg, remember what I told you about the AE noticeboard having a word-limit? Please make note of that (didn't count, but it does look pretty close to the limit, at the very least). You may wish to trim in order to continue participating. El_C 17:09, 18 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

My very best wishes, the point is that there are more than a few nations out there (like WP:ARBAA2, etc.) who may designate hostile groups as "terrorist" or "extremist," but that does not imply that this is something which we necessarily are required to observe on the project, as such, overall. El_C 18:46, 18 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Nicoljaus, if you are unwilling or unable to substantiate, it's best to say nothing. Doubling down on WP:ASPERSIONS is not a good look and may be a cause for sanctions. El_C 20:42, 18 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

My very best wishes, you presume incorrectly. I had no knowledge of that edit. The warning, as mentioned, revolved around Nicoljaus' most recent comments to Talk:Alexei_Navalny#Narod_movement. El_C 21:13, 18 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Noting for the record that I have imposed an indefinite topic ban on Nicoljaus from the EE/Balkans topic area, broadly construed. Obviously, the previous AE sanctions that I had imposed on them in the past did not produce the desired effect. El_C 22:17, 18 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

My very best wishes, I only noted the sanction here for the record. But, in any case, the actual reasons that immediately prompted it are noted here. Anyway, this isn't the place to discuss the sanction, nor are 3rd party AE appeals a thing. El_C 23:05, 18 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Paul, extension granted. Though, I can't guarantee I'll get to review your lengthy submission or otherwise follow up on this case. (Possibly, there's a misapprehension that I am to fully attend to every request at the AE noticeboard, but I wish to relieve anyone of that mistaken notion.) El_C 21:25, 23 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Paul, I really don't know enough about either this case or MVBW's editing overall, for that matter, to meaningfully advise you. I think you've participated in enough AE complaints by now to probably get a feel for what's needed. Anyway, if you're saying there's merit to this case —or to a case about MVBW, in general— that certainly gets my attention. That said, I'm sorta focusing on misusing Wikipedia as a WP:WEBHOST right now, so, again, not sure I'll get to follow up on any of this. To that, spamming two new pages: Songs from the homeland & Buck Flower (security guard). El_C 22:19, 23 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Paul, just letting you know that I've responded to your proposal at WT:RFAR. El_C 05:46, 24 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The initial complaint filed by Mhorg just seems like a regular content dispute. The issue identified by Bob not Snob appears a bit more serious a bit more serious, but in context seems more like a sloppy revert during a minor edit war, and doesn't seem like something that merits sanctions on its own. I think this can probably be closed without action. _signed,Rosguill ^talk 05:24, 27 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think this is actionable. The reported "violations" are vague and all over the place, some of them the diff doesn't even match the accusation. Clearly Mhorg and MVBW are bitterly divided and both view each other as POV-pushers, but to an uninvolved admin it's not so obvious. MVBW is a longstanding editor with, from what I can tell, a clean record. There's no evidence of an intent to POV-push, no evidence that they're unwilling to communicate and engage in dispute resolution, no apparent policy violations. No background demonstrating that MVBW has a behavioral problem, no examples of collaboration issues, I'm just not seeing anything here that would be actionable. ~Swarm~ ^{sting} 20:47, 28 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Nicoljaus

Appeal declined. — Newslinger talk 14:02, 27 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found here. According to the procedures, a "clear, substantial, and active consensus of uninvolved administrators" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action.

To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see WP:UNINVOLVED).

Appealing user: Nicoljaus (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) – Nicoljaus (talk) 10:34, 19 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Sanction being appealed: Indefinite topic ban from any pages or discussions relating to the WP:ARBEE topic area (including the Balkans), broadly construed. It was imposed at User talk:Nicoljaus#Notice that you are now subject to an arbitration enforcement sanction, logged at Wikipedia:Arbitration_enforcement_log/2021#Eastern_Europe

Administrator imposing the sanction: El_C (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)

Notification of that administrator: I notify you that I have filed an arbitration enforcement action appeal

Statement by Nicoljaus

The administrator who imposed the restrictions put forward two reasons. The first one, as he himself admitted during the discussion on my talk page [85], is irrelevant (he claimed that I admit my HOUNDING of the user and even justify it). In fact, the situation is completely reversed and El_C even warned the user that I "hounded" [86]. So, one of the reasons for the indefinite topic ban can be discarded and I think we should expect some easing of sanctions.

The second situation is more complicated. I found in the contribution of Mhorg some features that seemed suspicious to me. When Mhorg submitted an AE request to another user they were "fighting" with, I shared my observations so that a non-involved administrator could evaluate them by making a decision on the request [87]. The administrator El_C in response made some claims that I may have misunderstood. Later, during the discussion on my talk page, he mentioned that the site I link to was in Italian. But there was no indication of this in his message [88] (actually, I don't read Italian either, but I didn't have any problems). I felt that it was necessary to specify more precisely which part of the rule WP:NOTHERE I refer to and specified the corresponding line, that's all. Reaction of administrator El_C seems excessive. I may have underestimated how serious the charge of violating the WP:NOTHERE rule is (my previous wiki experience doesn't give a reason for this). It is also possible that my observations do not provide sufficient grounds for such accusations, but I have not received direct explanation for this.

As a result, I find the measures taken, on the one hand, unnecessarily harsh, and on the other hand, do not allow me to understand what is wrong. I write a lot on the subject of the Second World War and the history of Russia and usually had no problems with my fellow Wikipedians. My previous blocks is usually arose from the fact that I was constantly attacked by the sockpuppets of disruptive users such as Crovata or Umertan. (With Mikola22, there was a special story, and I admit that I was wrong). I'm asking for lifting, or, at least the modification of the topic ban) – guys, seriously, what are the problems if I write articles like Dmitry Krasny, Battle of Belyov, Izyum-Barvenkovo Offensive, Alexander Bubnov, 15th–16th century Moscow–Constantinople schism (except for my poor English, of course)?--Nicoljaus (talk) 10:34, 19 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I made my statements in "terse way" just in attempt to follow the demand "dial it back" and not to BLUDGEON the discussion. I gave only references, indicated what I paid attention to, and the corresponding rule.--Nicoljaus (talk) 11:51, 19 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The language issue; collapsed to follow word limit

I don't think that the expression "tone down rhetoric" should definitely be perceived as "dial it back". Now I no longer understand what you were asking me to do - to stop pointing out any behavioral issues associated with the user Mhorg? I doubt that this is in your right, there are other non-involved administrators here, to whom the links I have given might be useful (as I thought, maybe I'm wrong).--Nicoljaus (talk) 12:09, 19 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Well, so I was surprised by the new claim about "tone down rhetoric". In fact, stupid Google translate give it exactly as "reduce the rhetoric" (I'm not sure that this link will display correctly: [89]). I didn't really understand your phrase about "dial it back", when I saw it for the first time, but I took it as a requirement not to say too much (I admit that this was the case in the topic you referred to). --Nicoljaus (talk) 13:02, 19 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The answer to the charges of Levivich and Svarm - I believe that they were dropped by SILENCE.

@Levivich I don't understand why I can't mention that almost all the users I had problems with, were sockpuppets? I was blocked based on the results of the interaction with Themanhascome and Ctvaughn555 (as well as many other user and IPs that attacked me), who were sockpuppets of Umertan aka UkrainianSavior. Miki Filigranski was a sockpuppet of Crovata. The latter, unfortunately, involved the then-inexperienced user Mikola22 in the conflict. I didn't mean that the Mhorg is a sockpuppet, and I didn't make any hints about it (and, moreover, twice), I just want people not to be afraid of my block log.--Nicoljaus (talk) 08:40, 20 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Levivich: Thank you for the clarification. But now I can't figure out what I did wrong. What is the rule that forbids someone to cite links, and to assume that they indicate certain behavioral problems, with a direct reference to the rule? And, I think, I did it exactly in the place where the administrator sent me in his warning of 15.02.--Nicoljaus (talk) 17:48, 20 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Swarm: Your accusation is seriously disappointing. I strongly reject the accusations of WP:HOUNDING, and it is rather my life that has turned into hell, as it is my edits adding valuable information from the book of a leading historian that have been irrevocably deleted: [90], [91]. And after that, I get accusations that I edit articles in order to annoy someone, and not to fix an obvious WP:Content forking. I politely (as I could) pointed out to the Mhorg the problems with his belligerent behavior, that's all. A valid attemptе "to smooth things over" on the part of the Mhorg would be to withdraw the request against the colleague My Very Best Wishes and help to recover the information from the book of Khlevnyuk or otherwise resolve the problem of content forking, rather than continue personal attacks by playing the victim.--Nicoljaus (talk) 07:51, 21 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Swarm: Please don't misrepresent the situation. It is not "Nico's repeated insistence", it was Mhorg who explicitly stated in his attempt to smooth things over that I was "removing or editing articles just to annoy him": [92].--Nicoljaus (talk) 05:25, 22 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I respectfully request for an extension of the 500 words limit to expand the collapsed part, as the user claims WP:NOTSILENCE: [93]. The new word counter will be about 850--Nicoljaus (talk) 08:32, 24 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by El_C

Unfortunately, the appellant barely touches on the main reason that immediately prompted the sanction in question, but goes on at length on the ancillary one, devoting nearly the entire length of their appeal for that purpose, despite my previous explanations about that on their talk page. Well, I am here to set the record straight. On the 15th, I had warned them, in no uncertain terms, that they need to tone down their rhetoric, or the likelihood that they would face AE sanctions again is high (diff).

Then, yesterday, they had accused the filer of an AE request of being NOTHERE by drawing a parallel between their editing focus to items on some non-English external website, and doing so in extremely terse way (diff). So, I had the warned them about that, too, also asking (in part): What is that VoxKomm link even about? I can't make any sense of it. The AE noticeboard isn't a free-for-all, Nicoljaus (diff).

As a response, instead of providing any substance whatsoever so as to clarify the matter as was requested, the appellant rather astonishingly doubled-down on more of the same by simply refactoring the very same terse reply a second time (diff). Needless to say, I found that to have been highly inappropriate.

As for the more ancillary reason immediately prompting the sanction, after the filer of said AE complaint (Mhorg) accused Nicoljaus of HOUNDING them —notably, without evidence, for which I have also warned them against (diff)— instead of responding with something like no, I am not hounding you, Nicoljaus hinted that they may well be doing so, but ostensibly not to "annoy" them as that user had claimed, but in the interest of the project or whatever (diff). I found this also to have been inappropriate, though not as egregious as the violation noted in the paragraph above.

Beyond all this, long since I had originally imposed a sanction on the appellant, exactly one year minus a day ago (2020 log entry), I have noticed a return to problematic editing on their part in the topic area, though the volume of their editing was initially very low for this to be too noticeable. But now that it was right in my face, I felt compelled to warn them, then warn them again, then sanction them (this time with a sanction which was not set to expire). I don't recall what last year's sanction was about exactly. Possibly, something about medieval Balkans stuff...? In any case, I think it's well time that Nicoljaus proves that they are able to edit in other topic areas productively and without incident. El_C 11:36, 19 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I should also note that Mhorg may well be deserving of sanctions, as well. I'm not sure. Frankly, I find it quite difficult to parse what they're saying, overall (including directly below). Their writings are just not coming across as coherent and cogent enough for me to able to make that determination at this time. El_C 11:51, 19 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Nicoljaus, to "tone down rhetoric" means to dial it back, not to trim it. That was made clear in my warning to you about the VoxKomm aspersion (that it needed substantiation, rather than merely refactoring!), so this explanation which you are now suddenly providing — that is something which I find rather puzzling. El_C 11:58, 19 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Nicoljaus, I'm not asking you to do anything. The sanction has already been imposed. You're appealing it here. I just pointed out that "tone down the rhetoric" does translate to "dial it back." That you think it can mean other things, that isn't on me. Not to be harsh, but I'm not responsible for your reading comprehension. El_C 12:33, 19 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, check this out. In this appeal, I described my warning to Nicoljaus on the 15th as me asking them to "tone down the rhetoric," which they now say isn't the same as saying "dial it back." But looking again at that warning (diff), I actually did say "dial it back." I'll just quote (in part): If you contend that there are violations, the Arbitration enforcement noticeboard is that-a-way. The article talk page is not for that. You need to take immediate steps to dial it back, because you won't get many more chances. Weird. El_C 12:41, 19 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

My very best wishes, when an inexperienced user comes to me to ask that I investigate something EE (direct link), but I tell them that I don't have the time and that if they have a solid case they should take it to AE, what are they supposed to do? Regardless of whether their AE complaint has merit or not (again, I'm not sure about that at this time), you painting them as some topic area regular who is using AE to win a content dispute — that is an unfair charge, I challenge. El_C 12:49, 19 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

My very best wishes, I never mentioned you having said anything "improper" about me because I know you didn't (in all the years of me having known you, in fact). I submit to you that you have misread. El_C 16:25, 19 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

My very best wishes, from my perspective, I'm not sure all of your WP:NOTTHEM points are that conducive to the success of this appeal. I, for one, think that if there are pressing issues with Mhorg's editing, as well, these should be attended to separately, in their own right. El_C 17:00, 22 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Mhorg

My accuses of Following\Hounding come in relation to this AE Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#My_very_best_wishes. User:Nicoljaus was trying to find something to discredit my work on Wikipedia (which is public, and I am still waiting for someone to tell me when I have acted maliciously) looking in my edits history... In fact, the user first made an edit[94] to contest an old edit of mine of 25 May 2020, then accidentally removed all my edit[95] (with the motivation that he was fighting with an anonymous user, I don't know...).
The accusation that I made to him (actually asking him to limit the conflict to a certain area and basically to leave me in quiet because I'm really exausted),[96] does not come from nothing, because in the same days this thing happened with User:My very best wishes (they are defending each other in the AE request)[97], who made the same deletion of the same edit of mine[98] in these days of harsh discussions. Again, MVBW removed[99] my old edit of 1 October 2020, and again he removed[100] my old edit of 9 October 2020. I think there is a connection to all of this. I think that I, unlike you, have tried to question your actions by remaining on a very specific topic (and my edit history confirms it).--Mhorg (talk) 11:18, 19 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

El_C sorry for my bad english, I tried to explain at the best what pushed me to make those accusations. I didn't know the rule of how to report a wikihounding case (I don't know how to do 99% of the things on the English Wikipedia, as you can see). Seeing the same deletions of the same old content, from the same two users I'm having trouble with, seemed like a good reason to ask them be left in peace. Sorry.--Mhorg (talk) 12:00, 19 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

My very best wishes I didn't understand what you want to imply that I'm an "experienced user who edited 6 years in Italian WP". We have different rules and in 6 years I don't remember ever needing to call an admin, not even to know if a user was right or not to delete all the controversial content of a politician.--Mhorg (talk) 00:30, 20 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

My very best wishes You keep mystifying everything, everything. My edits are public I can't nor want to hide anything, everyone can see the topics I deal with. When you talk about the banner, I don't know what you mean, Ymblanter was the only admin I met in a thread. The banner is this,[101] and it refers to his health conditions. I met El C when he stopped the sockpuppet LauraWilliamson, so I asked him how to deal with this issue. What are you implying? Regarding the Voxkomm channel, you talk about things you don't know, it may seem like a blog but in Italy it was a point of reference for the war in the Donbass, it was also quoted sometimes by RS such as "IlManifesto" [102]. But what does this have to do with it? Explain it to me, please... Why don't you answer for your actions instead of talking about others users?--Mhorg (talk) 17:07, 20 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by involved editor My very best wishes

We have had a discussion with El_C about it on the talk page of Nicoljaus. Yes, I know: admins have discretion. Sure, El_C had a reason for issuing the topic ban.

But I do not think Nicoljaus behave so badly to deserve the topic ban. For example,

the "last straw" comment by Nicoljaus [103]. My reading of this is different from that by El_C. ~~I think Nicoljaus just said he edits pages to improve them.~~. Mhorg tells: "Let's try to limit the conflict in a certain area. Don't you think?" Nicoljaus clumsy responds, yes, in the "passive aggressive" manner which obviously support the existence of the conflict between them. But it takes two to tango.
In his comment on this noticeboard, N. gives a couple of links and claims an "intersection of topics" (hence "NOTHERE"). Sure, this is not a proof of anything, and it is hard to say what exactly N. means in their statement. This is just a very clumsy comment, obviously with intention to "help" me, although I did not ask. He went as far as asking Mhorg to submit also an AE request about him [104]. Sure, this is not helpful, but a reason for a topic ban?
In their warning El_C did not provide any diff to clarify what it was about. Here is it (diff to to last of the comments by N.). A reason for a topic ban? I do not know. I am not an admin. Please look at all these diffs and decide.

However, I can tell one thing. N. is a highly knowledgeable contributor, at least on the subjects related to Russia, and he did work to actually improve the content in this subject area. Ultimately, this should be all about improvement of content, and I think N. does just that.

Collapsed as less important.My very best wishes (talk) 03:02, 24 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@El_C. No, I only said in complaint about me it was just a content dispute. Yes, I think it was. Also, I do not imply anything improper about you. I only think you did not make right decision about Nicoljaus. To the contrary, thank you for explanations! As about Mhorg, he does not know much about Russian politics (although he knows Russian), but I think he is an experienced contributor. First time we interacted in 2019 (#1 in my response). I should say though his comment on your talk page looks strange to me. "I have been forced..." Forced by whom? By me? No.

EL_C. It appears that Mhorg is an experienced user based on their editing in Italian WP. I think you underestimate him. I mean he is probably a fan of VOXKOMM International, apparently a left-wing YouTube channel (he posted their videos in WP [105],[106] that clearly belong to "links to avoid", VOXKOMM International also features fabricated propaganda/hate videos about Navalny and Markiv, subjects that are edited with passion by Mhorg), then Mhorg see the banner on your talk page and therefore decides to act, exactly as he said himself [107]. My very best wishes (talk) 15:38, 20 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Mhorg. I thought you were talking about the banner of Che Guevara on talk page of El_C (which would make perfect sense in such context). My apology. My very best wishes

@El_C. "if there are pressing issues with Mhorg's editing" Reporting Mhorg to AE? Oh no, my point was precisely the opposite: I am not going to report anyone to AE just for making bad comments, unless they also do something more serious, and Mhorg did not do anything more serious, at least until he submitted his report to AE about me. My very best wishes (talk) 17:30, 22 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Swarm. Yes, the comment by Nicoljaus does not look good. But consider this comment [108] or this edit summary by Mhorg. Is it better? During editing in such subject areas I saw a lot of such comments and worse. I just ignored all them unless the contributor was doing real and significant damage to content in my opinion. My very best wishes (talk) 14:46, 22 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Swarm. Yes, Mhorg provided a link to the policy. But did Nicoljaus actually harass Mhorg? If he did, such sanction would be completely appropriate. But I do not see any evidence of that in the conversation [109], just a bare claim by Mhorg, which can be even regarded as a violation by Mhorg (making an accusation without providing any evidence), plus reminding that "hey, we are in a conflict!" ("Let's try to limit the conflict in a certain area. Don't you think?"). Hence the angry denial by Nic, and the sanction for Nic. My very best wishes (talk) 17:02, 22 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I quickly checked their editing history and think that claim by Mhorg about wikihounding (intentional harassment) was false, which of course made N. angry. Mhorg tells "My time spent here on Wikipedia is becoming hell." Yes, that well may be true. This always happens with contributors who are trying to push their views against consensus up to the level of submitting an AE request to gain an upper hand in minor content disputes. My very best wishes (talk) 17:06, 23 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Mikola22

As for our conflicts in the past is concerned I think they were unnecessary, childish and fight about irrelevant information's, but with violation of revert rules. These blocks are now counted in every possible report against me or editor Nicoljaus. We do not meet in the articles after these conflicts and even if we meet I think we would resolve possible problems in good faith. Current editing of editor Nicoljaus I don't follow so I can't say anything about it, but if our conflicts ie blocks are also counted in this procedure I can only ask the authorities not to take our blocks too seriously, if this can be asked at all (I say this from the present time perspective when these conflicts seem ridiculous to me). Thanks. Mikola22 (talk) 12:40, 19 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by (involved editor 4)

Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by Nicoljaus

Cutting through the TLDR, these diffs are sanctionable conduct [110] [111] [112]. It's not OK to casually accuse people of socking in an AE thread (and then double down on it) and the third one is an admission and justification of WP:HOUNDING, and IMO it borders on WP:GASLIGHTING or DARVO. Levivich ^harass/_hound 07:34, 20 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Nico: I wrote "socking" but I meant it more broadly, to include WP:MEATPUPPETing, WP:PROXYing, WP:POVPUSHing, generally WP:NOTHERE, etc. I should have just said "disruption" or "policy violation". There was a warning on Feb 15 about this and those three diffs are a continuation of that pattern. Levivich ^harass/_hound 17:05, 20 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Nico: WP:NOTSILENCE: As far as the difference between dissent and silence is concerned, if you voice dissent, failure to make your dissent heated and continuous does not constitute silence and therefore does not constitute consent. Levivich ^harass/_hound 08:21, 24 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I don't object to the collapsing. I object to the inference stated in the collapsed header. Now I'm in the awkward position of posting here to clarify that nothing should be inferred by my not continuing to post here. Well played, Nico. Levivich ^harass/_hound 08:37, 24 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Result of the appeal by Nicoljaus

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

I agree with Levi's assessment above and I think all the context provided by El C demonstrates that this user was on thin ice for a long time and he eventually had to draw a line. The hounding responses read to me like outright trolling and bullying, it's really painful to read. Mhorg comes across as a completely sincere and good faith user trying to smooth things over, and Nico's replies come across as mean-spirited and passive-aggressive. I don't buy for one second that that's a good faith denial that is being misread. If someone comes up to you and says "please stop stalking me, you're making my time on Wikipedia a living hell", in no way does a good faith reply ever phrase their response as "are you accusing me of trying to annoy you? That's a serious accusation." No, this isn't a misunderstanding, El C picked up on obvious passive aggressive trolling and now the user's trying to misrepresent the situation. Good call by El C. Decline. ~Swarm~ ^{sting} 02:34, 21 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Nico's repeated insistence that "hounding" means "annoying someone" is bizarre and disingenuous. He was literally linked to the harassment policy that explained the meaning of "hounding" right off the bat. There is absolutely no reason that he should be claiming that he wasn't trying to "annoy" someone. Harassment isn't an "annoyance", it's a severe safety threat that is prohibited by the ToS. ~Swarm~ ^{sting} 02:57, 22 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Decline, the hounding merits a sanction, and El C's evidence demonstrates that Nicoljaus's behavior has been a persistent problem which justifies the duration of the sanction. _signed,Rosguill ^talk 05:37, 27 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Noteduck

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning Noteduck

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: Springee (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 04:10, 22 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

User against whom enforcement is requested: Noteduck (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced: Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/American_politics_2#Final_decision

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

Edit warring Reverted editors include myself, Conan The Librarian, Shrike, Visite fortuitement prolongée, Mcrt007, Pincrete, Kyohyi. While wp:ONUS puts the burden of making the case for inclusion on the editor trying to include new content, Noteduck feels the burden is on those rejecting the change.

The PragerU (trimmed):
- [[113]]
- [[114]]

At Douglas Murray (trimmed):
- [[115]]
- [[116]]
- [[117]]
- [[118]]
- [[119]]
- [[120]]

Behavioral Standards: Bludgeoning

Long discussion regarding the Bridge Initiative as a SPS here: [[121]]. Editor tediously says consensus is reached because they feel objections have been addressed. [[122]], [[123]], [[124]]

Behavioral standards: Edit summaries disparage editors (trimmed)

[[125]] "Given that (from your talk page) you've engaged in edit wars on this page and given that you called the PragerU page "critical remarks from partisan leftists writing in fashion magazines and on twitter" (20 November 2019) you may be struggling with bias. I see you and [editor] know each other - please don't collude to remove material"
[[126]] "a warning was given for disruptive editing which was ignored. Lvl3 vandalism given on page User:[editor]. Please refrain from deleting material on the page without evidence. Go to talk page for commentary on article and discussion"
[[127]] "I am concerned that your revision was not made in good faith and can be considered tendentious editing. If these edits are removed again a warning for vandalism may be due. You betray your biases with your description of academic sources as "absurd" and "nonsense" on the talk page. Please refrain from unjustly removing evidence thnx"

Behavioral Standards: Casting aspersions/inappropriate talk page comments: (trimmed)

[[128]] If you cannot view this subject neutrally and objectively it may be best not to edit this page
[[129]] In particular, this comes in the form of right-wing editors trying to omit unflattering material from pages on controversial subjects, resulting in a kind of whitewashing by omission or status quo stonewalling
[[130]] "I've noticed that certain editors on this page have a regrettable tendency to revert large blocks of recently-added material wholesale, especially material that might be controversial." - Admin deleted the section [[131]]
[[132]] "have a look at WP:ROWN when considering whether to discard this edit"
[[133]] Created section "Blatant partisan politicking on this page" - "This is the last attempt I'm going to make to put a stop to these tendentious edits. The editors engaged in this process of tendentious editing know who they are and I'm not going to ping them for now.

Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any

NA

If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts): [[134]]

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

Noteduck account created 19 Dec 2020 (prior account Spungo93 from April 2020). Battleground mentality including include edit warring, uncivil talk page behavior (unrelated comments about editor, tendentious editing, refusal listen to others). Editors have reached out to discuss issues [[135]], Callanecc (uninvolved) commenting[[136]][[137]]. Myself before filing this complaint [[138]]. Noteduck complaint at the Treehouse. An uninvolved editor said Noteduck needs to listen to others[[139]].

Dialog was ignored or treated as examples of the unreasonableness of other editors. Noteduck does not follow concepts like BRD and CONSENSUS, repeatedly reintroducing disputed content absent consensus or sometimes discussion. This resulted in extensive, slow edit warring. Noteduck is quick to use article talk pages/edit summaries to cast aspersions and or inappropriately focus on editors. Affected articles include PragerU, Roger Kimball, Douglas Murray (author) and Andy Ngo.

Edited for length Springee (talk) 14:25, 22 February 2021 (UTC) [reply]

and again Springee (talk) 18:54, 26 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Replies

Noteduck's replies illustrate why they are problematic. Rather than address their own behavioral problems (edit warring, attacking other editors etc) they have bludgeoned the discussion with text, much of totally misrepresenting the facts. As an example, in "Update 5" Noteduck falsely said I removed "Reuters and Fox News(!)[281]". The link in question shows I moved the text, removed nothing. This sort of false accusation yet again illustrates the issue. It is not possible to have a good faith disagreement with this editor. Until they learn the ropes they should be restricted to less contentious areas of Wikipedia. Springee (talk) 12:57, 24 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Noteduck, your Update 5 accuses Pudeo of colluding on some of the disputed pages:

It's worth noting that Springee, Shine, Pudeo, and Hipal have all edited together and largely backed each other up on pages like Andy Ngo and PragerU

The editor interaction tool is telling here [[140]]. Pudeo has never edited PragerU or its talk page. They did edit Andy Ngo... over 2 months ago (2 edits total). Their edits to Douglas Murray (3 months back) and Roger Kimball (3/4 years back) are even further back and less than 3 edits each time. Falsely accusing editors of collusion is an example of the disruptive behavior that we are concerned about. Springee (talk) 18:32, 24 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Generalized reply to Loki and Shadydabs

If you look at the diffs in most cases Noteduck isn't reverting my edit or replying to my comments. Absent diffs claims that I was edit warring, POV pushing etc have no merit. Springee (talk) 14:33, 22 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Loki, your edit here fails to noted the talk page discussions that went along with the edits. Most of this talk page is about the content in question[[141]]. Note there were more editors in the discussion. Can you say there was a consensus for any of the edits you cited?[[142]] Why have a consensus policy if we don't expect editors to respect it? Springee (talk) 18:49, 22 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

It is clear Noteduck still doesn't get that they should comment on the edits, not the editor. In the last few hours they accused Hipal of ROWN.[[143]] Springee (talk) 11:56, 23 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Shadybabs, it is perfectly reasonable to dispute your edits to long standing article text. Why is that a complaint here? Springee (talk) 15:05, 27 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Reply to Cedar777

Cedar777, your accusations against me misrepresent the facts but also miss the point. For example, when looking at the examples of casting aspersions, Noteduck is attacking a large number of editors, not just myself. Even with this active ARE they decided to accuse Hipal of ROWN just a few hours ago. Springee (talk) 11:53, 23 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Reply to dlthewave

Dlthewave, I think you are confusing disagreements regarding content with editors casting aspersions etc which is the heart of the issue here. Your last point, saying I refused to review a list of sources, is not entirely accurate. Noteduck dumped a large list of possible sources on the talk page and asked which I would reject which is already borderline failing to AGF. Since there was no text to accompany the source we have no way to know how the sources would be used. I did provide an answer [[144]] but it had to be limited to just the sources which were either not green or not green for this topic. You also neglected to mention that you are an involved editor. Springee (talk) 04:32, 25 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Reply to El_C

El_C, I've thought about what is the correct remedy here. As I said to Noteduck here [[145]] I want the problem to stop. I think a clear warning that comments about users are not acceptable on talk page. Any comment that is about the editor not the content of the article should not be on the talk page. The one sanction I think would help is a consensus required restriction. This would force Noteduck to slow down and listen to editors who object to changes but aren't willing to engage in the edit wars. Being forced to slow down and trying to address objection or otherwise establish consensus is only going to make Noteduck a better editor overall. Springee (talk) 16:01, 22 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

El_C, you comment is one of my concerns. The real issue here is the volume of inapropriate comments, edit summaries, examples of large changes made without consensus. In filing this complaint one of the hard parts was figuring out which examples to leave out[[146]]. Springee (talk) 17:08, 22 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

El_C, even with this AE open, Noteduck's edit warring and failure to follow BRD continues. Just last night they added new content [[147]]. The material was removed, ND restored it with a demand that the objecting editor make the case for removal [[148]]. {u|Peter Gulutzan}} subsequently agreed and removed the content. Noteduck's failure to discuss disputed edits and expectation that others should have to justify removals is contrary to ONUS and BURDEN and leads to more edit warring. A BRD restriction or similar on ND's edits would be helpful. Springee (talk) 15:23, 26 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

[[149]]

Discussion concerning Noteduck

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by Noteduck

I believe 1RR allegations are factually incorrect, as LokitheLiar said.

Given block reverts and vandalism I will concede that I got somewhat cranky around the Douglas Murray (author) page. As a newbie I was sometimes ignorant of policy - eg I know now Springee can delete material from talk page even if I'd prefer they didn't - and I apologize. It seems I edit-warred on several occasions and I apologize - happy to learn from any arbitration decision.

A counter-claim - if not the right forum I will happily withdraw it for now: I contend Springee is highly partisan and doesn't edit pages with any objectivity. Springee's talk page history has many claims of partisan bias and misunderstanding of policy (these just from the last 3 years),[150][151][152][153][154] including worrying claims of firearm advocacy,[155] behavioral problems,[156][157] edit-warring,[158] vandalism,[159] and canvassing[160][161] Springee's twin fixations seem to be conservative politics and firearms. Stalking has been raised by another editor.[162][163] Springee has followed me around Wiki, aggressively editing pages they previously had no involvement with right after I edit them.[164][165] I believe Springee sometimes follows my user contributions, looking for material to challenge. Springee's MO seems to be stonewalling any potentially unflattering material from pages on conservative subjects. It's worrying that Wiki pages of powerful conservative groups have become one-sided and whitewashed thanks to Springee. Full disclosure - I have discussed these problems with other editors via email who have concurred.

I appreciate Loki's criticism - it's ironic of Springee to accuse me of ignoring requests for help. On several occasions my posts on Springee's talk page were rapidly deleted without engagement.[166][167]

As Loki mentioned this is a boomerang but I believe Springee in fact has serious behavioral and POV problems that need addressing. Noteduck (talk) 08:22, 22 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

UPDATE: I went back further through Springee's talk page history, and there are a large number of accounts of behavioral problems and failure to meet Wiki standards going back years, including some serious allegations including hounding and harassment. I'm not sure how to deal with it but it needs attention Noteduck (talk) 09:46, 22 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

UPDATE 2: I'll get to the other points but first, what is the actual contention of impropriety on the Roger Kimball page? Two primary sources referring to Kimball's endorsement of the conspiracy theory that Joe Biden rigged the 2020 presidential election (which he has done on quite a few occasions, hence the term "repeatedly") were deleted by Springee and I reverted them once. Multiple previous primary sources in the same paragraph that were more flattering to Kimball were not touched. At any rate, after discussion on the talk page and a BLPN discussion initiated by Springee I did not end up restoring the contested source and provided two independent sources for the claim, so I'm not sure what the problem is. Pudeo, I'm not sure how familiar you are with Australian journalism, but Creighton and Newman are VOCAL about lockdowns and climate science respectively, so I don't see how this material is improper in any way. I didn't know the Epoch Times was depreciated at the time and don't see how that's relevant, but I apologise, I should have done more research. I never said Springee hounded me - I said that Springee's pattern of apparently going through my user contributions in order to contest material was concerning given previous accusations of stalking and hounding. Pudeo, given that you made vociferous, detailed, and baseless claims of sockpuppetry against a new editor (myself) on my talk page, and declined to remove them when I asked, your accusations of incivility are something of a pot-kettle-black matter[168] Noteduck (talk) 06:09, 23 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

[To El_C:] what sanctions are potentially enforceable? I've learned more about Wiki's rules over the last two months and I'll aim to be more mindful of Wiki policies. I still think I have a strong counter-claim though, which I'll support with more evidence soon Noteduck (talk) 04:35, 23 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hipal, I've presented robust claims of partisanship, POV-pushing, stonewalling and behavioral problems from multiple editors on Springee's part in formal and appropriate language, based on dozens of diffs (with more still being added). I've taken two days off my new job to make sure my arguments are as thorough as possible. This is a forum for resolving disputes between editors, and I hardly think presenting my side of the case constitutes "battleground behavior" Noteduck (talk) 03:21, 24 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

El_C, I don't quite understand your comments. I am just making my defence that I am not in conflict with a disinterested editor, but rather somebody who is highly partisan and experienced at whitewashing Wikipedia. Is this not the appropriate forum for this? I think my sometimes scrappy behavior needs to be understood within this context, but nonetheless I'll strive to improve and be more relaxed in the future. I believe that my contributions to Wiki, such as creating Soon May the Wellerman Come, Draft:Osman Faruqi(waiting on assessment for this one) and my additions to Douglas Murray (author) and Andy Ngo, as well as innumerable grammar and syntax corrections, are high-quality and demonstrate my commitment to improving this site in good faith Noteduck (talk) 13:31, 24 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

El_C, I wanted to tell you this privately, but it was bound to come out sooner or later at any rate. I'm disabled - I have bipolar disorder and struggle with mania from time to time. I should have been more proactive about looking up Wikipedia disability policies but I see there is a Wikipedia:WikiProject Accessibility page and a Template:User bipolar2 tag. Over the summer (I'm Australian) I was unemployed and had nothing to do, and nothing to look forward to or be happy about except editing Wikipedia. I think this is trenchant information that demonstrates that I have no ill intent or lack of good faith in editing. I'll cut down the statements in the morning Noteduck (talk) 13:46, 24 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

El_C, no problem with the trim. For full disclosure, I do plan to launch a claim against Springee, which is in my sandbox for now Noteduck (talk) 00:48, 25 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Springee, please cease repeating the misrepresentation that I "accused" Hipal of anything. I simply mentioned being mindful of WP:ROWN when considering whether to revert material - a reminder of established policy is not an accusation Noteduck (talk) 04:39, 25 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks El_C. I feel like I need to do two things (1) defend my own conduct and the charges Springee is making, and (2) make a counter-claim against Springee's own conduct, which I believe I have a strong case for. Should I being with the first one, or try to combine them both into a single argument? Cheers Noteduck (talk) 00:37, 27 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Springee, please don't make spurious and misleading allegations. I added a single 14-word sentence to the Dennis Prager page based on a NY Times article that referred to Prager misrepresenting the seriousness of the COVID-19 pandemic. There weren't any editing restrictions on the page at the time, and nobody has told me that I can't edit while the arb request is ongoing. The edit was reverted on the frankly implausible basis that it was "fake news","misleading, biased and anti-semetic"[sic].[169] I think any reasonable editor would have done the same as I did and restored it Noteduck (talk) 00:33, 27 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by LokiTheLiar

As someone who's been involved in some of the disputes above, I would like to say that Springee's above portrayal of themselves as neutral or justified in all the above is not true. So for example, take the PragerU page from January 5th to January 7th. It's my contention that that history pretty clearly describes a two-sided slow moving edit war, with one of the sides being Noteduck and the other being Springee and Shinealittlelight, and that it's eventually ended by the edit-protection of the page by Callanecc and the starting of this RfC a few weeks later. Or in other words, Springee was also edit warring, they just had a partner making their edit warring less obvious.

I also think the characterization of Noteduck as having broken 1RR on PragerU is incorrect. This edit, which Springee characterizes as a revision of this previous edit adding that entire sentence to the page, is not in fact a revert. It's just an edit. A revert, according to WP:3RR is an edit or a series of consecutive edits that undoes other editors' actions — whether in whole or in part. Simply changing the wording of a sentence to be less credulous towards Ngo's claim does not undo the previous edit regardless of what Springee feels about the purpose of including that sentence. (And I'd also like to point out that asserting that it does undo the edit to reword it would be evidence of POV-pushing, as it would indicate that the purpose in including that line was to support Andy Ngo and not to document the facts.) Noteduck made only one revert to that page, this one, in accordance with 1RR.

I'm less familiar with the situation on Douglas Murray but a cursory glance at the page history reveals a similar slow motion edit war that Noteduck is only one of many participants in. Several editors, most of whom appear to now be blocked, remove large parts of the page without going to the talk page, and Noteduck and several other users add them back in, including Springee themself at one point. My impression here is that the side mainly at fault is the side with all the socks that repeatedly tries to remove large sections of the article without talk page consensus.

Some of the above behavior from Noteduck is still concerning. Obviously, edit warring is not good even if many other people are also edit warring on the same page, and I'd really rather Noteduck had just gone to ANI with their complaints rather than cast all the WP:ASPERSIONS they've been casting. But TBH I'm tempted to call for a WP:BOOMERANG here because Springee's case against Noteduck is pretty directly parallel to a similar case that could easily be made against themselves. At the very least, this is not a problem with Noteduck, it's a content war across multiple pages that Noteduck is one member of one side of.

E: Quick reply to Shine: I don't believe that anyone here is casting aspersions, nor do I believe that aspersions can even be cast here,as this is one of the appropriate forums for dispute resolution that the guideline mentions. The whole point of the guideline is to get people to raise concerns about editor behavior here and not on article talk pages. Furthermore, I gave evidence that Shine was a party to a slow motion edit war, and Noteduck seems to have given plenty of evidence for their accusations, so I really can't help but see this as attempted WikiLawyering.

E2: Because both Springee and Shinealittlelight again have asked me to provide evidence, I am providing a timeline to substantiate my accusation of a slow motion edit war on PragerU (and fixing the broken link above, sorry, my mistake):

Timeline

03:15 on Jan 5th: Noteduck adds some material to the Critiques of Videos section about a video on Robert E. Lee, and points people to the talk page in the edit summary.
03:49 on Jan 5th: Springee reverts Noteduck's edit, asserting existing consensus on the talk page was against inclusion.
04:04 on Jan 5th: Noteduck reverts Springee's revert, again directing Springee to the talk page and asserting previous removal of the material was based on poor sources.
04:38 on Jan 5th: Noteduck adds more material to the Critiques of Videos section, this time significantly expanding a paragraph about a video narrated by Douglas Murphy.
15:09 on Jan 5th: Shine reverts Noteduck's older addition about Robert E. Lee, and points to talk page consensus as the reason.
02:42 on Jan 6th: Springee significantly cuts down the material Noteduck added about Douglas Murphy, again pointing to discussion on the talk page.
02:53 on Jan 6th: Noteduck reverts Springee's partial manual revert, claiming it is "totally unjustified".
06:28 on Jan 6th: Shine completely reverts Noteduck's addition to the Douglas Murphy paragraph, again pointing to the talk page.
06:43 on Jan 6th: Noteduck reverts the revert and accuses Shine of edit warring and POV-pushing in the edit summary.
08:43-11:45 on Jan 6th: Noteduck adds a bunch of material to the Reception and Critiques of Videos sections.
16:04 on Jan 6th: Springee makes a small edit adding context to Noteduck's new material but does not remove it. They also explicitly say they do not endorse the new material.
17:07 on Jan 6th: Another user named Hipal comes in and manually reverts all Noteduck's edits up to this point.
01:05 on Jan 7th: Noteduck reverts Hipal's manual revert and asks them to be more specific about what exactly they object to.
03:10 on Jan 7th: Hipal reverts Noteduck's revert.
11:41 on Jan 7th: Callanecc full-protects the page.

Also for full context, this RfC about Noteduck's various additions was opened weeks later through processes that apparently did not entirely occur on the PragerU talk page.

In total, over a three day period, that's two reverts each for Springee, Shine, and Hipal (for a total of six reverts by their "side") and four reverts by Noteduck, for a total of ten reverts over 3 days.

@El_C: Could you be a little clearer about what part of Pudeo's comment is causing you to lean towards sanctions? I'm personally not seeing anything interesting/new there.

Statement by Shadybabs

Having come into conflict with Springee in the past I can say pretty confidently that it is Springee, and not Noteduck, who is the primary problem with contentious edits and extremely biased application of wikipedia policy to whitewash factual information with respect to right wing individuals or organizations.

[170] Another diff by Springee undoing edits where I try to move language away from PragerU's self-published claims to those made in RS, as well as re-inserting edits that were still under dispute in the talk page. He provided no specific justification on which edits were sourced poorly. Alarmingly, PragerU's disinformation regarding climate change is removed from the content about their fact-checking spat against youtube, highly biasing the article against youtube in favor of PragerU, against what is reported in third party sources.Shadybabs (talk) 14:33, 27 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Shinealittlelight

Noteduck admits to being sometimes ignorant of policy and states that Noteduck edit-warred on several occasions. Noteduck then quotes editor complaints on Springee's talk page over the last three years, which don't show anything without providing diffs of alleged misbehavior. Noteduck then alleges that Springee was hounding him. But this isn't true: WP:HOUND says Correct use of an editor's history includes (but is not limited to) fixing unambiguous errors or violations of Wikipedia policy. Given that Noteduck was violating policy (as Noteduck admits) it was reasonable for Springee to check on Noteduck's edits to be sure that Noteduck wasn't continuing to violate policy. Noteduck says Springee's twin fixations seem to be conservative politics and firearms. What is the evidence for or relevance of the claim that Springee has "fixations"? He then accuses Springee, without evidence, of whitewashing. To me, without diffs backing these statements, Noteduck is repeatedly casting aspersions here. Per WP:ASPERSIONS, An editor must not accuse another of misbehavior without evidence. LokiTheLiar apparently concurs that Noteduck has cast WP:ASPERSIONS elsewhere as well. I agree, per the evidence Springee gave above, and I would add that Noteduck has shown an unwillingness to stop this behavior despite being repeatedly warned (again, per the evidence in the complaint). That and his repeated editing against consensus has been what is most frustrating to me.

@LokiTheLiar: accuses me and Springee of slow-motion edit warring. This is an outrage. I'm extremely careful not to edit war. If evidence cannot be produced, then I'd ask Loki to strike that statement. I thought Noteduck was pushing content about Douglas Murray and Robert E. Lee into the article against consensus, which I politely removed one time each here and here. Because Noteduck kept reintroducing this content against consensus, other editors, including Springee but also notably the most experienced editor on the page, Hipal, removed the material, e.g. here. These additions went to arbitration, which produced a massive RfC which seems to be split at present (no consensus so far). This is how editing contentious pages works: we slowly improve the page. Casting ASPERSIONS and editing stuff into the article against consensus is going to drive good editors away. I'd like to also note that Hipal and I have often disagreed in the past; there's no attempt to "team up" here. I see Springee, Hipal, and I just trying to do our best to deal with a disruptive editor.

@Shadybabs: do you have any diffs showing what you're saying about Springee? Otherwise that's more WP:ASPERSIONS.

Noteduck is new, and I don't want to be too hard on new editors. But Noteduck needs to apologize for casting aspersions, and to be sternly warned that continued editing against consensus and casting of aspersions is unacceptable. Shinealittlelight (talk) 14:14, 22 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@LokiTheLiar: The "evidence" you allegedly provided is that broken link to the history page? That's not evidence. And no, we can't cast aspersions, even here at AE, without evidence. Shinealittlelight (talk) 15:38, 22 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Hipal

Per the evidence offered by Springee, Noteduck needs to be constrained from involvement with AP2 topics, otherwise we're going to be back, after even more disruption from Noteduck. Noteduck's statement above shows what we can expect until it is stopped: bad faith assumptions of others, an inability to respect content and behavioral policy, and the battleground attitude typical in AP2 topics. --Hipal (talk) 21:30, 22 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Noteduck's subsequent comments above show an inability to take responsibility for their own behavior, in addition to what I wrote above. --Hipal (talk) 17:32, 23 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Noteduck is now arguing above, without any diffs, that editors agreeing with Springee (It's worth noting that Springee, Shine, Pudeo, and Hipal..) are doing so because of similar biases. [171] This is absurd and assumes bad faith. Noteduck provides no diffs because it's nonsense. --Hipal (talk) 02:50, 24 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

On January 27, I provided Noteduck with 13 diffs showing evidence demonstrating you've been working from the perspective that other editors are pov-pushing against your edits [172]. The response from Noteduck was agreement: right-wing editors trying to omit unflattering material from pages on controversial subjects [173]. Almost a month later, Noteduck continues with this battleground mentality in this very discussion. --Hipal (talk) 03:10, 24 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Noteduck has redacted the accusations against me made here.[174] Thanks. --Hipal (talk) 19:17, 25 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Dlthewave, we're dealing in this discussion here with an editor, Noteduck, that I think would be best blocked or banned from PragerU completely for the reasons already given. In this context, I believe my very slow and cautious approach to his latest comments at Talk:PragerU are perfectly fine, especially if one were to assume good faith. Even if this discussion wasn't happening and there was no problematic editing going on, slow and cautious is always advisable. --Hipal (talk) 19:19, 25 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Pudeo

Noteduck could have been blocked as a "sock of someone" (seen such a block rationale), after Spungo93 was CU-blocked and their explanation for that did not make sense. Noteduck explained: I made User:Spungo93 years ago and forgot about it. This was not correct because Spungo93 had been created on 18 April, 2020 (log entry), meaning Notedeuck misremembered the date by years. Furthermore, the "forgot about it" part did not make sense because they had edited with the account 4 days before registering this one. (After more review, I don't think Noteduck is Perspex03 based on their timecard, though).

Noteduck has used self-published / WP:PRIMARY sources to make contentious claims: 1) Using Dennis Prager's own National Review column to say he rejects scientific consensus on climate change 2) Using Roger Kimball's own columns to say he has "repeatedly" contended that there was voter fraud, then after someone changed "fraud" to "irregularities", they changed that and their own original wording to say he has repeatedly made "false and debunked claims", while claiming white-washing in the edit summary. They once reverted the removal of these primary sources, accusing Springee of hounding. One of Kimball's own columns that Noteduck used as a source was in The Epoch Times which is a deprecated source in Wikipedia. 3) Using Maurice Newman's own column to say he rejects consensus on climate change 4) Using Adam Creighton's own column to make critical claims on his lockdown stance. I think it's unusual that someone would link to The Epoch Times or the person's own columns to make negative claims about the subjects, so it's clear these were WP:OR claims, and editors should err on caution per BLP like Springee has done.

They also initiated a declined RFAR with a focus on four editors on January 7. They seem to be constantly accusing other editors of partisanship: "partisan politicking", "problem with partisan bias", problem with politically partisan editing" "ideologically motivated -- sabotage" etc. Some of their statements had to be hatted in the PragerU DRN thread due to personal comments. While this isn't too unusual in the topic area, it's usually done by ranting IPs, not by regural editors. --Pudeo (talk) 22:25, 22 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Cedar777

My familiarity with this dispute is limited to the Andy Ngo article. Noteduck has made a number of constructive, if imperfect, comments and edits. The article has benefited after Noteduck pointed to WP:ROWN and MOS:LEADCITE. I do not agree that there was a 1RR violation or that Springee is a faultless party here.

Springee has repeatedly removed reliably sourced content from the article that, if retained, might reflect unfavorably on conservatives. The bar set by Springee (with support from Shinealittlelight) for inclusion of content critical of Ngo is impossibly high such that they have disallowed content from the NYT, the WP, along with a number of other sources listed in green at WP:RSP when the content is not flattering to conservatives. In observing these patterns and engaging with editors on the talk page over several months, the phrase "moving the goal posts" comes to mind. Even innocuous statements such as Ngo has been the subject of wide ranging media coverage (when there were already 77 citations) have been sanitized from the article by Springee as in this edit.

Meanwhile, the door has largely been left open to contributors sympathetic to Ngo where the quality of their sourcing receives limited scrutiny, as with this edit sourced to Sky News Australia followed by more disparagement of RS at talk where the NYT & Wapo were referred to as "fourth rate sources". This pattern is also reflected in efforts to enforce 1RR: sympathizers get gentle proactive advice from Springee here, while opponents are warned and/or scolded here and here where a user restored sourced content that happened to mention a political figure. Overtime, these actions add up to a skewed article that does not reflect what the bulk of RS actually say. Sanctioning Noteduck is not going to address this underlying issue.

Noteduck has been direct at times about the reverting of unfavorable content but is otherwise respectful. Springee and Shinealittlelight have had issues with what is known as "talking out of both sides of your mouth". For example, Springee claims this NYT article can be used to support that Ngo must be called a journalist diff. . . but once a summary of what this same NYT article was discussing about Ngo was added, the source was deemed no longer usable or relevant when it came to criticism. Diff A second instance is where user Springee, in a slow motion edit war, reverted content that was added by 3 different editors, sourced to WP, Bellingcat, and Daily Dot:

The original contribution Nov 19 from Snooganssnoogans: Addition 1a + sources in Addition 1b Springee deletes content: Deletion 1

Content restored on Dec 1 by LokiTheLiar: Addition 2 The second deletion by user Springee: Deletion 2

The most recent addition Feb 12: Addition 3 Which was again deleted by user Springee: Deletion 3

Noteduck is a newer editor, with much to learn. While I cannot speak for the disputes at the other pages, in my view their contributions have been a net positive at Andy Ngo. Cedar777 (talk) 06:56, 23 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Robert McClenon

User:Noteduck filed a Request for Arbitration concerning PragerU. I said that I was willing to mediate the content dispute, and the arbitration case was closed, and a DRN case was opened, which was: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_201#PragerU The result of the mediation was a six-part RFC, which is at: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:PragerU#RFC_on_Various_Proposed_Edits The calendar is about to run out on the RFC, so that the bot will remove the tag, and the RFC will be ready for closure. One editor took issue with the RFC, saying that the sources were unreliable. My view was that reliability of the sources could be considered by the community in the RFC discussion. The same editor, User:Hipal, also said that there were behavioral issues that needed to be addressed. The behavioral issues were not addressed at DRN because DRN is a content forum.

I don't have a strong opinion on either the content, because I was maintaining neutrality in order to mediate, or on conduct, because DRN is a content forum. Robert McClenon (talk) 15:35, 23 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Dlthewave

I have concerns about whitewashing at PragerU, where it appears that several editors are working to block any negative content. The general attitude towards Noteduck comes across as condescending and there seems to be no effort to work collaboratively or help Noteduck develop their editing skills.

Example #1:

00:07 19 February 2021: X-Editor adds "In 2020, a joint analysis conducted by counter-disinformation consulting firm Alethea Group and the nonprofit Global Disinformation Index found that PragerU was one of the five most common sources on the Internet that spread COVID-19 misinformation.^[1]"
12:12 19 February 2021: Springee reverts with the reason "Opinions of a red linked group (Alethea/GDI) are not DUE", an argument that has absolutely no basis in policy. Springee has been around long enough to know that WP:DUE concerns the reliability of the source, which in this case is MSN/Yahoo News, not Alethea/GDI.
Discussions follow on Springee's talk page [175] and the PragerU talk page [176]. Springee repeatedly claims that Alethea and Yahoo News somehow do not meet WP:DUE, and Hipal repeatedly claims that the source is a "warmed-over press release" (read it, it clearly isn't). Both editors provide little to no evidence or correct interpretation of policy, and there is little effort to acknowledge that Noteduck and myself have a valid point of view, yet these spurious arguments are effectively blocking inclusion of this content.

References

^ Dickson, Caitlin (2021-05-01). "Exclusive: Pandemic relief aid went to media that promoted COVID misinformation". Microsoft News. Yahoo! News. Retrieved 2021-02-19.{{cite web}}: CS1 maint: url-status (link)

Example #2:

17:38 24 February 2021: Noteduck proposes a "Criticism" section along with 13 sources.
18:53 24 February 2021: Hipal immediately suggests a bizarre and tedious approval process - "How about picking the best reference out of that bunch and telling us what you believe is encyclopedic and due from it? If we don't agree on it, we can go to the next, until we have some agreed-upon references or we run out of references to consider." This bears no resemblance to our normal consensus building process, and I struggle to see it as anything other than the start of another drawn-out effort to block content that Hipal doesn't like.
20:23 24 February 2021: Springee refuses to look at the sources and instead insists that Noteduck bring a proposal to Talk before editing the article. This appears to be an effort to require Noteduck to bring a publication-ready proposal that will not be approved until it is perfect, and the entire burden will be on Noteduck to satisfy any concerns.

I've seen this abuse of the consensus-building process before and it's a very effective way for a small group of editors to control article content while maintaining superficial civility and complying with 3RR. I'm concerned that a "Consensus Required" restriction would only grant Springee, Hipal and others more power to block content by refusing to reach consensus. –dlthewave ☎ 04:05, 25 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I also wanted to address Pudeo's BLP concerns. I would generally argue against the use of these primary sources, since they would need secondary coverage to establish WP:WEIGHT and The Epoch Times has been deprecated. However, I fail to see how Noteduck's edits [177][178][179][180] can be construed as contentious or negative. They're literally repeating what the subjects say about themselves which falls under WP:ABOUTSELF from a verifiaility standpoint. Again, this content shouldn't be self-sourced, but it's not the big BLP brouhaha that Pudeo is claiming. –dlthewave ☎ 04:20, 25 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Username

Result concerning Noteduck

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

Springee, your request greatly exceeds the 500-word limit, so please trim accordingly. Thanks. El_C 06:02, 22 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I'll preface by saying that I've only glanced at this still lengthy complaint (with me, Spartans!), but from the several random examples I viewed, I'm not seeing anything too egregious. Just a tendency to call out partisanship, which runs both ways, in a way that certainly exceeds article talk and user talk pages usage. Overall, the less said on any of that the better, except in forums such as this. Not sure what the filer or the respondent to this complaint are really asking for. Are they asking for sanctions? A logged warning (to that, to those interested, see my latest clarification request about logged warnings at ARCA)? An un-logged warning?

Regardless, an evidentiary basis needs to be established with both the recent and the egregious prioritized, if one expects any sort of an outcome from this process. Finally, I plead with several participants to significantly trim and otherwise aim at concision. Us AE admins are not paid staff, we are volunteers like you. I submit that you are asking too much out of available volunteer resources. El_C 15:39, 22 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Springee, I'll re-emphasize that the evidentiary burden for sanctions (CR or otherwise) doesn't appear to have been met in your complaint. Just from what I've seen so far. El_C 16:08, 22 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Springee, I'm afraid I don't have any additional advise beyond those general recommendations at this time. Perhaps another uninvolved admin will see it different...? Who know. El_C 17:45, 22 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Per Pudeo's evidence, now starting to lean toward sanctions. Will wait to see what other admins think, though. El_C 02:05, 23 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Noteduck, you probably don't realize this, but your various updates (word limit?) are doing you a disservice. "Partisanship" is in the eyes of the beholder. Even if much of everything (everything!) that you've written has a sound basis in fact, I doubt that, in this case, that's something AE admins would wish to address — if anything, that would probably be a Committee matter. You're basically making the complainant's case for them right now. Thought you should be aware. El_C 13:23, 24 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Noteduck, two things. First, to re-emphasize: word limit? Secondly, in answer to your question: no, with respect to what you allege about Springee (which, hey, may well be true), I contend that this goes outside the purview of admins at AE, but rather, that this would be a Committee matter. I suppose other admins' mileage may vary, though. El_C 13:42, 24 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Noteduck, while Wikipedia takes a strong anti-ableist position, as it does against all other forms of prejudice and discrimination (for example, with WP:ACCESSIBILITY and so on), I'm afraid that when it comes to the realm of the psyche, that isn't something for which many allowances can really be made. BTW, sorry for declining your request to correspond privately (I now realize about this), but as a matter of principle, I don't usually do that with users whom I don't already know (well enough). Best wishes, El_C 13:57, 24 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Noteduck, thank you for the significant (20K) trim. Much appreciated. El_C 23:44, 24 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Gah, I still seem to be the only one contributing to this section, so maybe a couple of additional notes. Noteduck, you should make your case here. If you are to file a new AE request, it is likely to be viewed negatively. Folks may well end up asking: why didn't they just present their case in the original complaint? I'll stress that the filer of an AE complaint faces no less scrutiny than the its subject. Springee, you still need to trim (hopefully, with no more collapsing). The requirement is an upward of 20 diffs, whereas you are now approaching 40. El_C 17:18, 26 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Noteduck, sorry, I am not familiar enough with the details so as to advise further with any confidence. All I am really able to provide is my general sense. Which, hey, may be off. Who knows. Also, I'm sorry to say (well, not that sorry, to be honest), but I will not be following up further with this or any other open complaint on this noticeboard. Best wishes to all. El_C 00:59, 27 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

My impression is that if Noteduck stops including allegations in their edit summaries and slows down a bit no further intervention will be necessary. Notebook has made some errors regarding the use of primary sources, but given the examples seen so far this seems like it is likely just inexperience and a good faith misunderstanding of WP:OR. I don't think it is necessary to impose a consensus-first sanction at this time, but a formal warning is probably appropriate. Regarding the behavior of the editors listing grievances against Notebook, while they obviously could have been a bit more collaborative, I don't see any breaches of conduct that clearly merit a sanction (Noteduck, note that it is more helpful to post diffs of problematic behavior itself, rather than diffs about other editors accusing someone of problematic behavior). One editor's obstructionism is another editor's quality control, and I concur with El C that ArbCom is the only venue that can successfully handle cases where the allegation is tendentious editing without overt breach of decorum or policy. _signed,Rosguill ^talk 05:33, 28 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I think I agree with Rosguill that a logged warning is needed, but probably not blocks or topic-bans at this stage.--Ymblanter (talk) 11:11, 28 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

SpicyBiryani

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning SpicyBiryani

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: Aman.kumar.goel (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 16:54, 23 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

User against whom enforcement is requested: SpicyBiryani (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced: WP:ARBIP

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

Since his return from a 3 months topic ban from WP:ARBIP:

4 December 2020: Removes "thenews.com.pk" with false edit summary "figures are Indian claims".
20 January Unsourced WP:OR and marks such a major edit as 'minor'. Not sure how I forgot to add this diff earlier. Aman Kumar Goel ^(Talk) 11:57, 24 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
25 January 2021: Changes "93,000 captured" to "90,368 captured" by marking such a major edit as 'minor' and inserts false edit summary that "Pakistani POW count now matches the rest of the page", despite the lead mentions "Approximately 90,000[36] to 93,000 Pakistani servicemen were taken prisoner by the Indian Army".
20 February: Falsely accused me of adding "unsourced figures to the infobox", and when he was provided clarification and additional sources, he still fails to agree with the validity of the "93,000" figure.
23 February: Misrepresents source and makes the edit without edit summary.
- SpicyBiryani: "Pakistan gained control of roughly a third of Kashmir (Azad Kashmir and Gilgit-Baltistan), whereas India retained the rest (Kashmir Valley, Jammu and Ladakh)."
- BBC source: "To the west of the ceasefire line, Pakistan controls roughly one third of the state."
21 February: Adds report from months back to decide about a conflict that is currently on-going and has gone through series of changes including widely reported "complete pullout". See WP:CIR.
23 February Doubles down with his WP:OR. Claims that thenews.com.pk is a "random article from 2014" and asking me "how exactly is GlobalSecurity not a reliable source". See RSN discussion for globalsecurity. In this message he also mocked me by imitating my earlier message ("Your personal research does not carry weight here.") by saying "assumption you made is your own personal WP:OR and carries no weight here". See WP:BATTLE. Aman Kumar Goel ^(Talk)

@El C: One of the discussions I linked above is from RSN, and now I would link another one from Military noticeboard. Both discussions agreed that Globalsecurity.org is not reliable and also showed that it has been subjected to undisputed mass removals after these discussions.[181][182] Having observed these edits earlier, this is why I claimed that globalsecurity.org is not reliable. The website itself notes: "While we make every effort to ensure that the information on this site is accurate and up to date we accept no responsibility whether expressed or implied for the accuracy, currency and completeness of the information."

But I would like to know how SpicyBiryani concluded below that RSN discussion showed the website to be reliable? This is further evidence of comprehension issues of SpicyBiryani.

Since this report, SpicyBiryani has continued to make problematic edits. Here is yet another recent diff where this user added "most neutral sources rejected this claim." Of course, none of the sources they cited stated or even implied this conclusion. This is the kind of Original Research/WP:SYNTH that is explicitly barred under the policy. Whereas one of the sources they cited said "India’s latest release of information is interesting, but it remains too circumstantial and limited to put the issue of whether or not the IAF shot down an F-16 to rest for good".[183] Aman Kumar Goel ^(Talk) 13:53, 27 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any

Topic banned for 3 months WP:ARBIPA on June 2020.[184]
Blocked for violating the topic ban on June 2020.[185]

If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts): [186]

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

Note, that this account has only 107 edits. Aman Kumar Goel ^(Talk) 16:54, 23 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested: [187]

Discussion concerning SpicyBiryani

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by SpicyBiryani

NOTE: Since the above request was modified after I made this statement, the numbering here may be slightly off. Refer to this diff to match the old numbers. SpicyBiryani (talk) 16:15, 26 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Infobox: See this diff.^[1]

6: Here are some excerpts from the RSN discussion on GlobalSecurity.org, which is what I based my argument on:

It is a reliable source. It is used by the mainstream media as a source, it is cited in 240,000 books in Google books and by 17,600 articles in Google scholar. It has a page showing support from third parties[82] and despite its disclaimer for errors, bills itself as "reliable source of background information and developing news stories in the fields of defense, space, intelligence, WMD, and homeland security."[83] Its director is John Pike, a leading expert.
Examples from NYT of links to globalsecurity.org: 2014: An NYT "editor and researcher" selected reference to the site as a resource on Iran's Guardian Council, Also in 2014 as a resource on Pakistani ISI director Ahmed Shuja Pasha, 2013: globalsecurity "Iranian rocket expert" cited in NYT article, 2012: Cited as a "defense website" for historical information on a US military exercise. There are several other references that can be found by searching globalsecurity.org on NYT. Washington Post has used them more recently: 2016, 2015, 2014. Reuters has most recently used globalsecurity as a source in 2016, CNN in 2015 and Fox in 2016
globalsecurity.org is cited in:

Fighting to the End: The Pakistan Army's Way of War / Oxford University Press
Gulf Military Forces in an Era of Asymmetric Wars / Preager
Handbook of International Electrical Safety Practices / Wiley-Scrivener

John Pike, one of the founders, "directed the Space Policy, Cyberstrategy, Military Analysis, Nuclear Resource and Intelligence Resource projects" [1] at the Federation of Atomic Scientists. In terms of reputation and expertise it appears better than the average RS.
[81] Edwards Air Force Base usage of source

In short widely used by reliable sources, and by a US government agency.

1/6: As for Aman's source, last I checked, according to WP:HISTRS, a single news article from nearly a century later is not considered as a reliable source. If it is, then I don't see how GlobalSecurity, a prominent defence website widely cited by mainstream media and thousands of articles and books on military history, is not. The rest of what he said is completely WP:OR and WP:SYNTHESIS so I'm not going to bother with that. To me, his refusal to accept sourced content and belief that his personal opinion carries more weight looks like a case of WP:IJUSTDONTLIKEIT.

Aman countering original research with his own original research resulted in me, assuming good faith, reminding him that that his WP:OR is not considered RS either. Obviously, the wording will be somewhat similar, since you can only phrase "Original research does not carry the weight of a reliable source" in so many ways.

POW count: See this diff.^[1]

China-India Skirmishes: See this diff. ^[1]

Other: See this diff.^[1]
SpicyBiryani (talk) 09:33, 24 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
All sections except those still under discussion have been removed to reduce the wordcount. See the previous diffs to view their content. SpicyBiryani (talk) 08:36, 27 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Previous replies: See this diff. ^[1]

@El C: I've collapsed everything except the GlobalSecurity section of my statement to reduce the wordcount and make it easier to refer to. Since you asked specifically about GlobalSecurity, here's what happened: The infobox contained Indian claims for the casualties of both sides, and these were presented as neutral claims. So, I started this discussion on the talk page to find neutral figures, and cited two sources, the Researchgate one, and the GlobalSecurity one.

Researchgate turned out to be unreliable. I had no issues with this. It didn't give any figures anyway, just stated there were no reliable numbers. Aman claimed that GlobalSecurity is unreliable but didn't specify why. To prove it was indeed reliable, I headed over to RSN, and ended up at the same discussion which he has only now decided to link. In the above statement, I already quoted excerpts from the discussion which concluded that GlobalSecurity is reliable, so I'll post them here in collapsed form.

Quotes from RSN discussion on GlobalSecurity

It is a reliable source. It is used by the mainstream media as a source, it is cited in 240,000 books in Google books and by 17,600 articles in Google scholar. It has a page showing support from third parties[82] and despite its disclaimer for errors, bills itself as "reliable source of background information and developing news stories in the fields of defense, space, intelligence, WMD, and homeland security."[83] Its director is John Pike, a leading expert.
Examples from NYT of links to globalsecurity.org: 2014: An NYT "editor and researcher" selected reference to the site as a resource on Iran's Guardian Council, Also in 2014 as a resource on Pakistani ISI director Ahmed Shuja Pasha, 2013: globalsecurity "Iranian rocket expert" cited in NYT article, 2012: Cited as a "defense website" for historical information on a US military exercise. There are several other references that can be found by searching globalsecurity.org on NYT. Washington Post has used them more recently: 2016, 2015, 2014. Reuters has most recently used globalsecurity as a source in 2016, CNN in 2015 and Fox in 2016
globalsecurity.org is cited in:

Fighting to the End: The Pakistan Army's Way of War / Oxford University Press
Gulf Military Forces in an Era of Asymmetric Wars / Preager
Handbook of International Electrical Safety Practices / Wiley-Scrivener

John Pike, one of the founders, "directed the Space Policy, Cyberstrategy, Military Analysis, Nuclear Resource and Intelligence Resource projects" [1] at the Federation of Atomic Scientists. In terms of reputation and expertise it appears better than the average RS.
[81] Edwards Air Force Base usage of source

In short widely used by reliable sources, and by a US government agency.

As you can see, the discussion concludes that GlobalSecurity is a reliable and widely cited source run by experts. So unless Aman didn't read past the first few paragraphs where people were confusing it with other random websites, I don't see why he is citing RSN. Additionally, the GlobalSecurity article also cites these sources:

^[2]
^[3]

So, even if GlobalSecurity's credibility as a source is under question - which it shouldn't be, considering the points made in the RSN discussion - in this specific article it is further citing other neutral and reliable sources. Therefore, I believe GlobalSecurity qualifies as WP:RS, especially in light of the RSN discussion. SpicyBiryani (talk) 16:15, 26 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@El C:

1. Aman calling GlobalSecurity unreliable^[4]

2. My response ^[5]

I did insert these diffs as links above but for some reason they aren't appearing on your end. Maybe it's a formatting error or something.

SpicyBiryani (talk) 19:52, 26 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ ^a ^b ^c ^d ^e https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&oldid=1009112517#SpicyBiryani
^ Heitzman, James; Worden, Robert L. (1996). India : a country study. Washington, D.C. : Federal Research Division, Library of Congress.
^ Sarkar, Bhashkar. (1999). Kargil War: Past, Present and Future. New Dehli: Lancer.
^ https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Indo-Pakistani_War_of_1947%E2%80%931948&oldid=1003156922#Casualties_claims
^ https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Indo-Pakistani_War_of_1947%E2%80%931948&oldid=1008484498#Casualties_claims

@Aman.kumar.goel:, User:El_C stated they are no longer following up over here.

Instead of claiming that others have comprehension issues, you could try reading the vast amount of quotes I cited here to prove GlobalSecurity's reliabliity, which were sufficient enough to be termed excessive. Or, you can go ahead and tell NYT, Reuters, and the authors of more than 20,000 articles and books that their work is unreliable because of that seven line discussion (which took place before the RSN discussion concluded GS is reliable) you just posted. If you still insist on resorting to WP:ICANTHEARYOU by ignoring all of the things I cite, then I can't really help you.

As for the thrilling story of an F-16 being shot down by a MiG-21: Almost every neutral source I know of, even prominent scholar Christine Fair who is renowned for her harsh criticism of Pakistan's military, has rubbished this claim. (Fair specifically termed it "dubious," said it doesn't pass the "Rubbish test,"^[1] and called the IAF narrative "deployed by politicians to win elections." )^[2]^[3]^[4]^[5]^[6] This claim has only been propagated as credible by Indian officials and media. Hell, the pilot of the MiG-21 himself stated he got shot down while looking for a target^[7], and never that he downed an F-16, even after returning to India. SpicyBiryani (talk) 16:25, 27 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Sources

^ "Christine Fair speaks at MilLit Fest 2019". Retrieved 27 February 2021.
^ Dogra, Chander Suta. "IAF Did Not Shoot Down Pak F-16 in Balakot Aftermath, Says US Scholar Christine Fair". The Wire. Retrieved 27 February 2021.
^ Marlow, Iain. "India Never Actually Shot Down Pakistani F-16 in Kashmir Clash, New Report Says". TIME. Retrieved 27 February 2021.
^ "U.S. count shows no Pakistan F-16s shot down in Indian battle: report". Reuters. Retrieved 27 February 2021.
^ Abi-Habib, Maria. "After India Loses Dogfight to Pakistan, Questions Arise About Its 'Vintage' Military". The New York Times. Retrieved 27 February 2021.
^ Seligman, Lara. "Did India Shoot Down a Pakistani Jet? U.S. Count Says No". Foreign Policy. Retrieved 27 February 2021.
^ "Wing Commander Abhinandan speaks about how his MiG-21 got shot down". Retrieved 27 February 2021.

@Swarm: See the diffs of the content I removed - while they are lengthy, you'll see all my arguments in content disputes are supported with sources. (I'll provide specific examples of this again, if you'd like.) CIR is also covered in those - To summarise, I am competent per WP:CIR and haven't exhibited the consistent total incompetence required to justify requesting sanctions. WP:RCD and WP:RUCD also state that sanctions should only be requested when all attempts at civilised communication about the article's content have failed, and the argument has been reduced to an exchange of personal attacks - which again, is not the case.SpicyBiryani (talk) 08:19, 2 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Guerillero: @Rosguill: Another thing which I'd like to restate is that the core point of the allegations against me is "SpicyBiryani doesn't agree with my POV on the talk page." Per WP:BRD, WP:CIR, WP:RCD, and WP:RUCD I have done nothing that violates Wikipedia's policies, let alone repeated actions severe enough to justify sanctions. Furthermore, quoting my edits out of context as Aman.Kumar.Goel has in allegation 2 is the behaviour expected of a WP:BULLY. And having the audacity to call me incompetent and claim I have comprehension issues (as if WP:NPA doesn't apply to them) on top of that, is resorting to the deplorable tactics of WP:SMEAR. Such behaviour is worthy of WP:BOOMERANG. SpicyBiryani (talk) 08:11, 4 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by (username)

Result concerning SpicyBiryani

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

Barely 100 edits and already having been subject to a 3-month IPA TBAN and blocked for violating it? That's not good. There are valid concerns relating to the misrepresentation of sources, some fairly innocuous, but others less so. For such a fraught topic area focus that Kashmir and the 2020 China–India skirmishes represent within IPA itself, an indef BROADLY IPA TBAN is probably the only way to go here. Let this inexperienced user prove that they are able to edit other areas of the project productively and without incident. Then, after a considerable time period has passed, a convincing appeal may be considered. So, that is my recommendation. El_C 17:42, 23 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

SpicyBiryani, two things. First, you are responsible for familiarizing yourself with the scope of any sanctions, otherwise, querying anything that is unclear. Secondly, charging that an user lacks editorial competence isn't necessarily a personal attack — see WP:CIR. El_C 13:47, 24 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

SpicyBiryani, I'm sorry you went through that (truly), but with respect to editing, dispassionate detachment is expected in any and all mainspace submissions. Also, I'm not sure why you're going on and on about CIRNOT — I submit to you that it is a distraction from the matter at hand and isn't worthwhile pursuing further. El_C 17:09, 25 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

SpicyBiryani, also, not intended as a CIR reproachment, but please sign all of your comments. El_C 17:11, 25 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

SpicyBiryani, in your relatively short tenure on the project, you have already been sanctioned about the topic area before, so, though Aman.kumar.goel may ought to have engaged further with you (if they, indeed, had failed to do so), I don't think that annuls this complaint. Further, you are still going on at length on matters which do not seem that germane to this dispute — also with you having grossly exceeded the word limit at this point, so please trim accordingly to align with that requirement. Finally, as a followup to my first point, diffs are missing for some of the more important issues raised, like the GlobalSecurity.org matter (diffs, please), while quite a few others which seems largely irrelevant, are quoted at length. So, please be more selective with your submissions here, overall. Thank you. El_C 19:38, 25 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

SpicyBiryani, way too lengthy, still, including quoting to an excess, quite unnecessarily so. And, the key matter of Aman.kumar.goel challenging GlobalSecurity is still without diffs, for some reason. I'm not sure how to articulate this better, but your response to this complaint is still highly lacking. I would recommend that you condense, a lot more. There's simply no need to expand in this much detail. Brief, concise summaries with a detailed collection of relevant diffs attached, that'd be best. As a side note, I'll point out that I, myself, had used GlobalSecurity as source for various military and weaponry -related pages for many years without incident. El_C 17:06, 26 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

SpicyBiryani, I'll leave the matter of the word count enforcement to the next admin to handle as they see fit, since I will not be following up on this or any other open AE complaint. But I will say that Aman.kumar.goel just saying that GlobalSecurity was deemed unreliable, without supporting that assertion with anything (whatsoever) — that does make me go hmm. Best wishes to all. El_C 01:08, 27 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

While some of the diffs provided by Aman.kumar.goel appear defensible, I concur with El C that the misrepresentation of sources is an issue. Given that the last sanction was for incivility, not OR/CIR issues, I'm inclined to simply suggest a long tban, rather than an indefinite one, 6-months to a year. Incidentally, I did some digging through RSN archives and my impression is that there is no consensus one way or another on GlobalSecurity.org (see Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard/Archive_285#GlobalSecurity.org), so that dispute is a bit of a red herring as far as this case is concerned. _signed,Rosguill ^talk 06:05, 28 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I don't really see a reason to not impose indefinite topic bans in 2020 --Guerillero ^{Parlez Moi} 06:15, 28 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with Rosguill that some of the diffs do appear to be defensible, and that that doesn't excuse the fairly serious problems of misrepresenting sources, synthesizing sources, rejecting good sources, and making unsourced edits. The violations themselves do appear to be fairly minor and not necessarily in bad faith, this appears to mostly be a CIR issue. I'm on board with a 6 month TBAN to avoid railroading a new and inexperienced user. ~Swarm~ ^{sting} 21:04, 28 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Casperti

Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found here. According to the procedures, a "clear, substantial, and active consensus of uninvolved administrators" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action.

To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see WP:UNINVOLVED).

Appealing user: Casperti (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) – Casperti (talk) 20:12, 23 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Sanction being appealed: Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/India-Pakistan, here: [188] based on the comments of a user (Aman Kumar Goel) on El_C talk page here: [189] because of my edit here: [190]

Administrator imposing the sanction: El_C (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)

Notification of that administrator: [191]

Statement by Casperti

1 March: Dear @Swarm:, @The Blade of the Northern Lights:, @Johnuniq:, @El C:

I hope you are all doing well. I am writing a shorter appeal for my TBAN, my apologies for the last appeal. It was indeed too long. I have a personal natural tendency to write longer paragraphs.

As stated in my TBAN template, the Admin believed I have been against a consensus and have repeated my behaviour, since the reporter claimed as such. According to the talk page (which you can check) I have not been against the consensus at all since there was no consensus (2 vs 3). Secondly, the claim that I have violated the previous reasons for my TBAN (edit warring/attacks) is not true since I only made this 1 edit based on a WP:DRN here [diff] and acted upon the advice to solve the 2 year-long dispute and opened a DRN. To delete this “interview source” claiming 3.2M Pashtuns [192]  Furthermore I opened this DRN to solve this dispute with the Editor who added the source in the first place. Dispute for the source’s reliability is going on for 2 year:

Talk page 2019: Talk:Pashtuns/Archive_19#Edit_warring_and_unreliable_source_being_forced_into_this_article
Talk page 2020: Talk:Pashtuns/Archive_20#Infobox
WP Reliability board RSN 2020: [193]
WP:DRN 2021 on where I Acted: [194]

Regarding the WP:SYNTH question: I have reinstated the Indian census source that was used for 10 years before this source addition in 2019 see intervals, : 2019 Jan [195] (worth to mention India notes Language for ethnic measurements in their censuses and it is used for every ethnic group of India for counting)

Based on the dispute resolution board advice I made this edit out of good faith based on advice and in order solve. I have not violated anything given by the reasons above. the Report that led to the TBAN was missing much information.

In light of these facts, I request a reconsideration of the decision about my TBAN.

I greatly appreciate you taking time to read this and the attached diffs. I am happy and ready to discuss this further incase of any questions.

Respectfully,

Casperti (talk) 12:54, 1 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Answer to @Rosguill:, Something important to note is that I actually advocated for a "^{[better source needed]}" template in the talk page of 2020 [196], that was the preference. And that the dispute was regarding the deletion (and reliability) of the "interview source of 3.2M", since 2019 (you can check it) and not about the Indian census. Since the Indian census source was the previous source used, I reinstated it but I do not care if it gets replaced since the main problem was the WP:RS of the interview source. Important to note is that India does only measure it's ethnicities/ethnolinguistics by language and never by race/ethnicity, that is whole issue here actually (you can check it for any ethnicity in India, only this is used). So briefly, the deletion of the 3.2M source was the dispute. Forgot to highlight this in my statement, many thanks in advance. regards. Casperti (talk) 16:54, 2 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by El_C

First, seeing this lengthy appeal, it does remind me of the sort of filibustering which prompted me to tell the appellant on my talk page that I expect better reading comprehension from them (having had to do so on more than one occasion). Regarding the reasons behind their (2nd, this time, indef) topic ban, I don't really have much more to add at this time beyond linking to the discussion on my talk page (here) and my sanction notification text itself (here). If any other reviewers of this appeal have any further queries for me, please don't hesitate to ask (and also ping). El_C 21:18, 23 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Casperti, I mean this with the best intention, because I don't think your appeal will succeed (I'm basing that on the 7 or so AE appeals concerning my actions which were filed during the last month or so, all declined) — but your appeal seems emblematic of the same problems that editors had with you, in addition to your re-insertion of SYNTH data after it was clearly deemed as such by all of the other participants. That problem, again, is all of this filibustering and your overall tendency to WP:BLUDGEON, at length. I submit to you that so long as you are unable to condense your appeal to its salient points, it basically amounts to a collective waste of everyone's time. El_C 17:19, 25 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Casperti, sure, sure. Not trying to badger you, really. What I am trying to say (still), just in a breath, is that condensing your appeal further to concise summaries (and paragraph breaks) supported by a detailed collection of relevant diffs, would be in your best interests. I'm basing that assertion on my ample experience in all matters AE. I'll stress that I don't mind being proven wrong, believe it or not (truly), so, if you do have a case, I'd rather see it presented skillfully than less so (i.e. rather than in a way that would contribute to it otherwise faltering).

I'm just saying that, though it doesn't happen often, there are AE appeals that are declined virtually without comment, simply with a closing note that says: since nobody has shown interest in the appeal, it is declined. So, that has happened before, and I would rather it wouldn't here. I'd much prefer for it to be reviewed. Now, it's only been a few days, so hopefully, it doesn't. But maybe help even the odds by condensing and amending, is all I'm saying. One final note about something I just noticed. Above, you've written : hopefully it is not personal from El_C side towards me. I'd like to clarify that, not only isn't any of this personal for me, but I didn't even remember who you were (I don't mean that unkindly, I just didn't), and had to refresh myself with the background. I mean, I've blocked close to 8,000 users, I only remember the details of a very small number of them (obviously). El_C 16:52, 26 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by (involved editor 1)

Statement by (involved editor 2)

Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by Casperti

Result of the appeal by Casperti

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

@Casperti: The notice at your talk included "I don't know what you're thinking by repeating that 21,677 piece of SYNTH, even after it was explained to you by multiple participants at Talk:Pashtuns/Archive_20#Infobox that it was in error." That concerns your 12 February 2021 edit at Pashtuns which changed the Pashtuns population in India from 3,200,000 to 21,677. I find this incident to be very confusing but that seems to be the central issue. Your statement above lacks focus and I find it hard to follow. I think you are saying that the DRN close justified your edit because the close said that a quote from a person is not a WP:RS for census information. That might justify removing 3,200,000 (I agree that using an advocate's number is inappropriate in an infobox) but I see no acknowledgment of the WP:SYNTH problem, namely that the number of Pashtuns is not the same as the number of Pashto-speakers. Unless I am missing something in the rambling statement above I would decline the appeal because even if the edits were good, it is necessary that someone repeating edits in a contentious topic is able to communicate concisely and engage with key issues. Johnuniq (talk) 04:13, 27 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
TL;DR. If anything, this borderline stream of consciousness appeal reinforces the need for this topic ban; unloading gigantic walls of text on talk pages is hugely disruptive. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 19:38, 28 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Glad it's not just me who finds this appeal rambling and incoherent. Casperti, no offense, but we don't have all day to read excessive, rambling walls of text. This is a CIR issue, you need to learn to be concise. If you want something, just say what you want and why we should give it to you. If you're confused about something, just ask the question without a massive wall of text. Walls of text are disruptive and are actually several different types of policy violations. I would decline this, for lack of a coherent appeal. If the user can formulate a more reasonable, coherent appeal, they can submit a new appeal. ~Swarm~ ^{sting} 21:28, 28 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I've looked into this more now, and it's a bit of a tough case. The argument that the census info he was trying to insert is useless, that seems pretty straightforward. That being said, was the info he was removing reliably sourced to begin with? That's another story. Casperti seems to have done the right thing here, he took it to RSN and DRN, where the only feedback he got was that it wasn't a reliable source. True, he didn't get a lot of feedback, and he didn't get a consensus, but the feedback he got rejected the info he removed. Is the census info a good substitute, no, but is the other figure good if multiple uninvolved editors are opining that they don't think it's coming from a reliable source? Was Casperti perhaps wronged by these uninvolved editors for definitively stating that the source was not reliable? Perhaps. There doesn't seem to be a consensus one way or the other. Substituting it the census info may have been the wrong answer, but there is a bit of backing to where he's coming from if no other sources exist. Then again he was already sanctioned for POV-pushing in the topic area. I don't know. To me the aggravating and mitigating factors break even. I guess I'd err on the side of an unban, given the fact that he received ample uninvolved third-party advise conclusively telling him that the figure was unreliably sourced and that census info is preferred. Even if that advice was not fully informed. I'm not saying he did nothing wrong, but it was one edit and there's enough here to give him the benefit of the doubt. I'd be inclined to throw him some more rope, to further reinforce the need for a TBAN if nothing else. ~Swarm~ ^{sting} 22:52, 1 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Rosguill: Fair points. I certainly trust your instincts. I'm fine with a decline, while allowing for an appeal in a few months, on the condition that Casperti can demonstrate constructive editing in other areas. ~Swarm~ ^{sting} 00:10, 3 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Reviewing this now that the appeal has been made significantly shorter, I'm inclined to decline. There still doesn't seem to be any recognition that the problem with their use of the Indian census source is the conflation of the Pashtun ethnicity with speakers of the Pashto language. The discussions that Casperti cites to establish that consensus is on their side seem to me themselves somewhat problematic, as the framing Casperti uses in the RSN and DRN discussions appears to misrepresent the nature of the underlying dispute. _signed,Rosguill ^talk 19:18, 1 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
While acknowledging the concerns raised by Swarm, I think I take a less favorable view of the RSN and DRN discussions because of Casperti's use of leading questions that misrepresented the dispute. Setting that aside, there's still the serious concern that Casperti reinstated content that conflated language proficiency with ethnic group membership despite that equivalence having already been contested in discussion. Stating now in this appeal that they are fine with other editors removing the census source in favor of another RS does not negate the original problems with misrepresenting the source. I am still of the opinion that this request should be declined, although I'd be happy to hear an appeal in a few months provided that Casperti is able to make constructive edits elsewhere in the meantime. _signed,Rosguill ^talk 19:56, 2 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Flushing Girl

Flushing Girl is indefinitely topic banned from all pages related to Eastern Europe or the Balkans, broadly construed. — Newslinger talk 12:27, 27 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning Flushing Girl

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: Number 57 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 21:26, 25 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

User against whom enforcement is requested: Flushing Girl (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced: WP:ARBEE

This user came across my watchlist last year, making a series of POV edits related to Eastern Europe and particularly Kosovo. They were given a DS notice by Neutrality in January,[197] and I gave them a final warning earlier this month.[198]

One of their main problematic behaviours (repeatedly on several pages) consists of removing Kosovo-related links from lists relating to Yugoslavia successor states, or removing Kosovo-related categories from articles that have categories of other Yugoslavia successor states.

Removing Kosovo-related link from Australia–Yugoslavia relations [199][200][201][202][203]
Removing Kosovo category from same article[204]
Removing Kosovo-related link from Ireland–Yugoslavia relations [205][206][207]
Removing Kosovo-related link from France–Yugoslavia relations [208][209]
Removing Kosovo-related link from Bulgaria–Yugoslavia relations [210][211]
A series of Kosovo-related category removals from similar articles that have categories for other Yugoslavia successor states[212][213][214][215][216][217][218][219][220][221][222][223][224][225][226][227]

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

They have been reverted by multiple editors, but continue to make the same type of edits, or repeat reverted ones. Cheers, Number 5 7 21:26, 25 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@El C: Quite a few of their other edits related to eastern Europe show a pretty clear pro-Russia bias – adding the Russian breakaway state Novorossiya to Right to exist but deleting Chechnya.[228][229], inserting (unsourced) views on Russian democrats and liberals,[230], or edits regarding Alexei Navalny.[231][232] I am not convinced that they are able to edit neutrally in this topic area. Cheers, Number 5 7 09:29, 26 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Notified

Discussion concerning Flushing Girl

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by Flushing Girl

Okay I will leave any articles about Kosovo alone. Thanks.

Guys I will not edit Kosovo anymore. I just thought that it was something good because I didn’t really approve of Kosovo in these articles and then I got carried away. I will be more careful next time. I also removed the controversial symbol above as well. Anyway thanks.

Look people I just didn’t like the fact that Kosovo was used in the articles about Yugoslavia. I just removed some things about Kosovo but I did because of my opinion that Kosovo is not an independent state. I should have left the articles alone. Anyway I will not change anything at all about Yugoslavia soon.

Statement by (username)

Result concerning Flushing Girl

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

Number 57, what sanction do you think would be best? A narrow Kosovo one? A wider Balkans one? Or the widest EE one? (Also, noting that I protected her talk page back in May. That's weird.) El_C 00:09, 26 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thryduulf, ~~so long as it's recorded at Wikipedia:Editing restrictions/Voluntary, I'm good with that.~~ Also, am I the only one feeling uncomfortable seeing 👌 being displayed? With respect to [its] OK_gesture#White_power_symbol association, of course. El_C 03:45, 26 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thryduulf, right, right, didn't mean to imply otherwise. I just meant, in general. Is it still, erm, ok to display? I'm not sure I've ever seen it used in real life (at least in non-racial contexts) since it's been hijacked by the white supremacists. So, I wanted to know if my notion alighs with others, is all. El_C 03:56, 26 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thryduulf, I'll still respond here, though briefly. My only note is that the lion's share of our readership is American, for whatever that's worth. Hope you have a good ~~night~~ morning sleep! El_C 04:20, 26 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Now in favour of a BROADLY EE/Balkans TBAN, per Number 57 and Ymblanter. El_C 22:35, 26 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I think we can take Flushing Girl's statement here to be a voluntary topic ban from Kosovo, broadly interpreted. We might as well go with that for now, if there is disruption in other areas going forwards it can be expanded or other sanctions considered if necessary. Thryduulf (talk) 02:47, 26 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@El C: outside of any context, the OK symbol is exceedingly unlikely to have any racial connotations. I can't see any obvious indication of a white power or similar context in the contribs of Flushing Girl I've looked at, and there is no obvious reason for there to be any in the context of disputes around Kosovo as all sides are predominantly "white". Thryduulf (talk) 03:51, 26 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@El C: from my awareness, it's only problematic in racist or US politics contexts and explicitly still fine in contexts like diving, but I'm no expert and also in the UK (the racial use seems to be a very US thing). This conversation belongs somewhere else than here though (I'm not sure where, please ping me if you post I'm off to bed - my local time is UTC!). Thryduulf (talk) 04:11, 26 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
It was an astroturfed moral panic to retcon past pictures of US politicians as "racist" by people at 4chan. -- Guerillero ^{Parlez Moi} 04:24, 26 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
This shows that a ban from Eastern Europe broadly construed is needed here.--Ymblanter (talk) 20:23, 26 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Re 👌, that was part of an initial statement but has been removed. I would not regard its inclusion in this context as a problem. Per the above comments and Flushing Girl's statement which does not engage with the diffs presented as evidence, I intend issuing an indefinite Eastern Europe broadly construed topic ban. If someone wants to do that first, please go ahead. Otherwise I'll wait to see if there are any further comments. Johnuniq (talk) 02:45, 27 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

ChandlerMinh

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning ChandlerMinh

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: Srijanx22 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 11:36, 26 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

User against whom enforcement is requested: ChandlerMinh (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced: Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/India-Pakistan

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

24 February: Falsification of source. The provided source makes no mention of a 'debate' or a 'fact'.
23 February: Same falsification of sources like above. Adds "dated from 1st century BCE and 5th century CE", as dating for "earliest reference to the story of the Ramayana is found in the Purananuru" but the cited source makes no mention of this dating, nor do the whole book.
18 February Removes sourced content of 500 bytes + and marks the edit as 'minor'.
17 February Removes sourced content of 500 bytes + by depending on his own knowlege and repeats his revert [233] while making zero contribution on talk page.[234]

Same edit warring on 23 January and no contribution on the talk page.

17 February "Any sane person would ideally prefer to quote Tesla’s own writing", see WP:NPA.
8 February violating WP:NOTFORUM even after he was warned for it just 4 days ago.[235]
2 February: Adding unsourced WP:OR he is himself unsure about.[236]

Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts): 2020, 2021

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested: [237]

Discussion concerning ChandlerMinh

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by ChandlerMinh

Hi ChandlerMinh here. I apologise for the WP:NPA involved here and will make sure to be more careful in future. Regarding the other edits, I will give my full statements after going through each of the requests made. I need some more time at least till 10 March 2021, as I have some personal commitments. Until then I will not make any edits on Wikipedia.

I don’t know whether I could reply here, but as far as my last 9 edits are concerned all I did was fix typos and give occupation of an Indian foreign service officer as “diplomat”. These are really silly changes that takes no time, unlike the charges made against me by Srijanx22 which would require some time to go through and give a proper statement . If even fixing typos are not allowed, i will stop that too ChandlerMnh (talk) 07:30, 4 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Levivich

@Vanamonde93 and Johnuniq: FYI, at the bottom of this ANI thread about another ios app user is a chart that shows how notifications work for the apps and other UIs. It looks like an ios app user may not receive a custom block message (or any other type of notification). However, this particular user sometimes edits with mobile browser instead of the app [238]. Also, they've made at least one user talk post to another user's UTP, ironically with the ios app [239]. Anyway, idk if you should block or not, but if you block, too short of a block might have zero effect, unless they check their own UTP through the app, or unless the block lasts long enough until the next time they log in via mobile browser (which the block might get them to try; John's suggestion of a month should be long enough judging by mobile web contribs), at which point they should see notifications, etc. Levivich ^harass/_hound 03:36, 2 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Van: idk if they can see their block log when they try to edit, but pinging Suffusion of Yellow who made the chart at ANI, maybe they know. Levivich ^harass/_hound 05:34, 2 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Doug Weller

As I'm involved in a friendly discussion at I'm involved, so posting here. @Rosguill, Vanamonde93, and Johnuniq: I posted a note at Talk:Sinauli#Secrets_of_Sinauli where we are discussing an issue and asked them to respond. The reply was "@Doug Weller: I have replied at my talk page and gave my statement at the AE. I said will need more time to go through each of the requests. ChandlerMinh (talk) 10:09 am, Today (UTC+0)" - their reply was yesterday afternoon UTC. Doug Weller talk 10:23, 3 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Joshua Jonathan

add 1: WP:DISRUPTSIGNS does not mention "falsification of source"; WP:TENDENTIOUS comes closest. But to call rephrasing statements in a source "falsification" is misplaced, though the source could have been represented better: it says that the possibility exists that Valmiki's version is not the second oldest. But that looks like a mistake, not a "falsification."
add 2: can't find "1st century BCE and 5th century CE" either, but see The Four Hundred Songs of War and Wisdom: An Anthology of Poems from... p.xvi}}
add second 2 (Sinauli/WP:FORUM): are we going to block editors for making a joke?
add second 3 (Andaman Islands/WP:OR: added Indian scholars argue that the name derives from the Hindu deity Hanuman; talkpage-comment diff Expand etymology section. Some sources suggest the island is named after Hanuman. How true is that?. That's quite different from Adding unsourced WP:OR he is himself unsure about: these are not ChandhlerMinh's conclusions, but the (alleged) conclusions of (unnamed) Indian scholars. A "source needed"-tag would suffice.

I'm not going to check the other allegations, since they seem to be exaggerated, but I notice that Srijanx22 never issued concerns, or a warning, about these edits at ChandlerMinh's talkpage, so I wonder why they go straight to AE. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 10:38, 3 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Srijanx22: why this comment at my talkpage? You state everyone there has confirmed that Chandlerminh is unresponsive to any concerns raised on his talk page and that's why he had been reported, but you didn't post any concerns on these points at their talkpage. And why do you state I would also suggest you to avoid getting into this mess because admins generally prefer seeing the reported editor to defend his own case? See the top of the page: All users are welcome to comment on requests. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 11:00, 3 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Johnuniq: I think ChandlerMinh can improve their edits, as explained above, but I don't see the need for AE here; I've seen worse, and I've seen contributions and responses by CM which are helpfull. Regarding the communication: yes, a response by CM would be welcome; it didn't take me that long to respond to the specifics. But note this self-revert at 2 march 2021 by CM; clearly a response to warnings for WP:NOTFORUM. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 07:17, 4 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by (username)

Result concerning ChandlerMinh

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

The report appears to check out, and I note that Chandler continues to edit while ignoring this report. I am thinking about a block for disruptive editing here. ~Swarm~ ^{sting} 21:41, 28 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I think the content-related issues are relatively minor here, though CM needs to be more careful. The issues with communication are more serious; I'm seeing numerous warnings on their talk page, and a clear absence of engagement with any of the issues raised with their conduct or their contentious edits. I'd support a block for disruptiveness, to be lifted when they convincingly commit to communicating properly, and also a logged warning about OR. Vanamonde (Talk) 23:36, 28 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Johnuniq:, any one of us can indef as a normal admin action; it's only an AE block that can't be indefinite. That said, if you think this is a consequence of the app they're using to edit and that therefore a shorter block should be tried first, I have no objections. Vanamonde (Talk) 03:14, 2 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Levivich: That is a truly absurd state of affairs; but one would hope that the inability to edit (presuming iOS hasn't disabled the effectiveness of a block...) would at least prompt them to look at their talk page. Does anyone know if they can see their block log when they try to edit? Also, if this necessitates a longer block than we would otherwise want, I'd be okay stating that explicitly in the block message. Vanamonde (Talk) 04:51, 2 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I second Vanamonde's suggestions. _signed,Rosguill ^talk 19:36, 1 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I left a warning at User talk:ChandlerMinh#Notice about AE saying that an indefinite block was likely because communication is required. Actually, we should block the WMF Board who have allowed situations like this to arise. Special:Contributions/ChandlerMinh shows almost all of their edits are flagged "iOS app edit" and I believe that means they never see notifications. I have seen discussions where it is asserted that such editors should not be sanctioned because it's not their fault. I don't agree with that because we have to work with what is available and if someone cannot be reached, they have to be stopped from editing in contentious areas because it causes too much disruption in topics where participants are told they must follow the rules, yet have to suck up non-communication from app users. That is not sustainable. Re the app issue, see VPT archive and WMF pump. Johnuniq (talk) 02:58, 2 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- I said indefinite but now that I think about it, we can't do that. Perhaps a month-long block from the article namespace with a block reason linking to User talk:ChandlerMinh#Notice about AE although even that apparently won't work. Johnuniq (talk) 03:01, 2 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  - What a mess. ChandlerMinh has edited a talk page so presumably they are sufficiently experienced to know some basics about Wikipedia. I'm thinking a month-long article namespace block is worth trying because (a) we have to protect established editors, and (b) there is a chance a block would alert them to find their talk. Johnuniq (talk) 04:24, 2 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    - @Joshua Jonathan: Srijanx22 explained themselves at your talk. Please use this page to focus on the issue, namely whether the reported user (ChandlerMinh) or the reporter (Srijanx22) are editing in ways that warrant administrative action. I infer from your comments that you do not agree with the descriptions used in the report but what do you think about the contributions themselves? Are they suitable for a topic under discretionary sanctions? ChandlerMinh posted here at 10:21, 3 March 2021 and has made nine edits to articles since then, most recently at 16:01, 3 March 2021. If further article editing occurs, it might be worth blocking them from article space because regardless of the desirability of their edits, communication really is required and their current response here ("I need some more time") is insufficient. Johnuniq (talk) 06:22, 4 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Mb 9702

Blocked indefinitely as a normal admin action for being a disruption-only account. (Not an AE action, as AE does not do indefinite blocks.) Bishonen | tålk 14:06, 28 February 2021 (UTC).[reply]

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning Mb 9702

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: Newslinger (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 11:17, 27 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

User against whom enforcement is requested: Mb 9702 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced: Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/India-Pakistan#Standard discretionary sanctions

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

Before alert

07:28, 22 February 2021: First edit request on Talk:Love Jihad without providing reliable sources
07:31, 22 February 2021: Second edit request on Talk:Love Jihad without providing reliable sources
07:33, 22 February 2021: Third edit request on Talk:Love Jihad without providing reliable sources
07:40, 22 February 2021: Fourth edit request on Talk:Love Jihad without providing reliable sources
08:32, 23 February 2021: Fifth edit request on Talk:Love Jihad without providing reliable sources
10:41, 24 February 2021: Sixth section on Talk:Love Jihad without providing reliable sources
10:45, 24 February 2021: Seventh section (sixth edit request) on Talk:Love Jihad without providing reliable sources

After alert

09:31, 25 February 2021: Eighth section (seventh edit request) on Talk:Love Jihad without providing reliable sources
14:18, 25 February 2021: Ninth section on Talk:Love Jihad without providing reliable sources
16:57, 25 February 2021: Comment on User talk:Mb 9702 – "What do you mean by islamophobic? We as Hindus feel threatened by muslims in our own country India we have to live like prisoners without any aspiration and clarity of thought and expression."
05:03, 26 February 2021: Personal attack on User talk:Mb 9702 – "It's the truth that I am saying. Stop being not making any sense and being a hypocrite."
09:02, 27 February 2021: Disruptive editing on Love Jihad – replacement of "an Islamophobic conspiracy theory" with "a concept"; replacement of "developed by proponents of Hindutva,^[5] purporting that Muslim men target Hindu women for conversion to Islam" with "developed for the sake of human rights and feminism which Islam is very unsupportive of. It states the truth and reality about how Muslim men target Hindu women for conversion to Islam". Edit was made against consensus on Talk:Love Jihad, had no edit summary, and was marked as a minor edit.
09:07–09:18, 27 February 2021: Addition of note that the source for the previous edit was "Article on 'Love Jihad' 1st paragraph Times Of India, Dated February 04 2021", with no link. A search on the TOI's website indicates that the note likely refers to the first paragraph of "Laws against 'love jihad': Wait for HCs to decide, says SC", an article that does not claim that the Love Jihad conspiracy theory portrays "truth" or "reality", or back any of the claims related to Islam. Further, an unclear citation of an article in The Times of India (RSP entry) is not an adequate counter to the high-quality academic sources cited in Special:Permalink/1009189726 § cite note-conspiracy theory-17.

References

References

^ Farokhi, Zeinab (2020). "Hindu Nationalism, News Channels, and "Post-Truth" Twitter: A Case Study of "Love Jihad"". In Boler, Megan; Davis, Elizabeth (eds.). Affective Politics of Digital Media: Propaganda by Other Means. Routledge. pp. 226–239. ISBN 978-1-000-16917-1. Retrieved 17 February 2021 – via Google Books.
^ Strohl, David James (11 October 2018). "Love jihad in India's moral imaginaries: religion, kinship, and citizenship in late liberalism". Contemporary South Asia. 27 (1). Routledge: 27–39. doi:10.1080/09584935.2018.1528209. ISSN 0958-4935. S2CID 149838857. Retrieved 20 February 2021.
^ Sarkar, Tanika (2018-07-01). "Is Love without Borders Possible?". Feminist Review. 119 (1): 7–19. doi:10.1057/s41305-018-0120-0. ISSN 0141-7789. S2CID 149827310 – via SAGE Journals.
^ Waikar, Prashant (2018). "Reading Islamophobia in Hindutva: An Analysis of Narendra Modi's Political Discourse". Islamophobia Studies Journal. 4 (2): 161–180. doi:10.13169/islastudj.4.2.0161. ISSN 2325-8381. JSTOR 10.13169/islastudj.4.2.0161 – via JSTOR.
^ ^[1]^[2]^: 4^[3]^[4]

Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any

If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)

Alerted about discretionary sanctions in the area of conflict in the last twelve months, see the system log linked to above.

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

@Mb 9702: Wikipedia articles are based on reliable sources. When available, high-quality academic sources are preferred as they are "usually the most reliable sources". Wikipedia does not allow original research in articles, and that includes any claim that does not reflect what reliable sources say, such as your claims in Special:Diff/1009278654. The unwarranted promotion of fringe theories (such as Love Jihad) is not allowed on Wikipedia, and repeatedly editing articles against community consensus is a form of disruptive editing. — Newslinger talk 13:46, 28 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Special:Diff/1009219112

Discussion concerning Mb 9702

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by Mb 9702

Date Explanation They are not letting me edit the page Love Jihad and wrongly have represented this page as an Islamophobic conspiracy theory and I am trying to make done changes into into article so that it appears to be unbiased and clarified but I'm not being allowed to,dated 26th February 2021.

Date Explanation 27th February 2021, I have edited this page yesterday the first para where in the page it is mentioned that it is an Islamophobic conspiracy theory the first para seems quite malicious and points at a biased view of this concept which is entirely misrepresented.

But yet they removed my edits illegally though Inspite of my reference to genuine sources they are not letting me edit this page Love Jihad illegally by provoking me and trying to insult me. Mainly Gene83k,NarSakSasLee,Suneye1 these are the main conspirators and they are treating this page as if it's their monopoly. And they are complaining against my rightful edit though they are trying to insult another person's belief by saying that its "Islamophobic Conspiracy"in the first para itself and saying that it's taken from genuine and highly researched articles and sources. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mb 9702 (talk • contribs) 06:32, 28 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

block <NarSakSasLee>,block <Newslinger>,block <Gene93k>,block <ClueBot NG> — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mb 9702 (talk • contribs) 06:44, 28 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Date Explanation

<block> NarSakSasLee as he is repeatedly trying to vandalize the Love Jihad article by illegally trying to hurt others values and religious sentiments by mentioning "Islamophobia" and "Conspiracy theory" <report> <report NarSakSasLee>

Date Explanation

On 27th February 2021 Newslinger is not letting me edit this article wrongfully misusing as Islamophobia, Conspiracy theory and trying to hurt ones religious sentiments. Please check. <report> <block> Newslinger — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mb 9702 (talk • contribs) 07:09, 28 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by NarSakSasLee

I concur [with Bishonen]. Numerous editors have been involved in trying to get him to engage, including me, but nothing has come from it. The editor now seems to be edit warring on the actual Love Jihad page. He appears to be a believer in the conspiracy theory given his most recent edits where he attempts to use politicians as reliable sources on the matter instead of academic sources. I think an indefinite block might work better too. NarSakSasLee (talk) 22:05, 27 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Bishonen: Please do indef block him. They've had enough warnings. It's a joke at this point that nothings been done against them. NarSakSasLee (talk) 10:41, 28 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Just to give you guys an update he is now reporting people individually on WP:ANI for "edit warring" when the entire purpose of his account is to engage in that pastime. Can we finally take some action? NarSakSasLee (talk) 13:34, 28 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@PaleoNeonate, Newslinger, and Bishonen: He is now causing significant disruption at WP:ANI. See this and this. NarSakSasLee (talk) 13:51, 28 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

[@Mb 9702:]

Your diatribe aside, as others have pointed out you are not engaging in good faith editing and you keep injecting conspiratorial nonsense into the article whilst removing peer reviewed academic sources. This was pointed out to you a staggering nine times on Talk:Love Jihad and yet you refuse to engage constructively. We have advised you time and time again to consult academic literature and yet you refuse to do so. NarSakSasLee (talk) 13:43, 28 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by PaleoNeonate

The account seems to only have been created to edit that very article. Their user page was even created to only contain "Love Jihad". This indicates WP:RGW and WP:NOTHERE. —Paleo Neonate – 08:01, 28 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by 36.76.234.82

The account seems to only used for vandalism, and any time Mb 9702 use the account, it is only use to replace it with wrong information. I believe the user already reported in AIV. IMO, this user should be blocked. 36.76.234.82 (talk) 09:52, 28 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by (username)

Result concerning Mb 9702

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

Mb9702 has not responded here yet, but I note their aggressive reply to Newslinger's notification[240] as well as their edit to Wikipedia talk:Arbitration Committee,[241] which was briskly removed by an arbitrator as being in the wrong place, and as "seek[ing] vengeance for AE proceedings". They don't seem to be aware that this, AE, is the place to respond, so I've put a note on their page telling them so.

After reading the discussions on their talkpage and their posts at Talk:Love Jihad, especially the nine semiprotected edit requests, I have no doubt that at least an indefinite topic ban from India and Pakistan is needed for this highly tendentious editor who seems so unwilling to learn about our sourcing principles. An indefinite block might actually work better. Bishonen | tålk 20:29, 27 February 2021 (UTC).[reply]

P.S. Telling Mb 9702 where to respond didn't work, I guess, but they have tried to edit this page.[242][243][244] Removed by another user. If you look at the substance of what they write there, I'm not sure it's worth attempting to assist them further than I already have. The concerns are through the roof. I'll indef as a regular admin action unless there's some other opinion offered in this section pretty soon. Bishonen | tålk 09:53, 28 February 2021 (UTC).[reply]

Either one of Bish's options works for me --Guerillero ^{Parlez Moi} 06:14, 28 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I'm fine with Bish's indef option. Ealdgyth (talk) 13:22, 28 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Update: The disruption continues apace and is wasting the time of more and more users. I have blocked Mb 9702 indefinitely for being a disruption-only account. Note, this is a normal admin block, not an AE action, as AE does not do indef. Bishonen | tålk 14:01, 28 February 2021 (UTC).[reply]

Steverci

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning Steverci

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: CuriousGolden (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 09:02, 28 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

User against whom enforcement is requested: Steverci (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced: Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Armenia-Azerbaijan 2

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

16 February 2021 - Removing war crimes category from an article about bombing of a city during a war.
16 February 2021 - Removing war crimes category from an article about bombing of a city during a war.
25 February 2021 - Saying that "bombing of a city during a war is a war crime" is WP:OR, even though HRW has called it that, while going on to defend that another bombing from the same war is a war crime.
5 February 2021 - Failing WP:AGF and calling improvement of a map a "nice try", implying that I had bad intentions.
6 February 2021 - Replying with "On the contrary, you should consider yourself lucky that I haven't decided on showing this blatant example of POV pushing to the administration noticeboard yet." when I tell them not to accuse me of bad faith for their previous comment (previous diff). See rest of the discussion to understand that the map change isn't remotely close to POV pushing.
22 February 2021 - WikiHounding. Steverci commenting on my contributions (in an area where he hasn't edited in), saying that the information I've added is UNDUE. See my comment.
28 February 2021 - "you and your off-Wikipedia contacts were WP:GAMING the system by abusing consensus, turning it into a vote against something you don't like." Clear case of WP:ASPERSIONS.
28 February 2021 - Saying "you should stop if you don't want to share the same fate (as another banned user)" for trying to keep the WP:ONUS.

Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any

12 March 2015 - Indefinite topic ban from Armenia-Azerbaijan and Turkey articles following this report.
8 December 2015 - Indefinite topic ban from articles relating to Armenia for "misrepresentation of sources, POV pushing and editing logged out to avoid scrutiny".

If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)

Alerted about discretionary sanctions in the area of conflict in the last twelve months, see the system log linked to above.

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

Steverci's indefinite topic ban has been lifted only recently. Their contributions since the lift have almost exclusively been focused on deleting information, nominating articles for deletion and getting in disputes. From their uncivil behaviour and constant threats, it is clear to me that the previously imposed topic ban did not give the desired effect.

@Steverci: At 786 words, your comment is way past the AE word limit of 500. I'll reply briefly to some of your points and I don't plan on replying further to your next possible comments until a third party is engaged in the report, as arguing back and forth with walls of text isn't helpful.

1-3) The discussion you've linked had no consensus and it's not a Wikipedia policy. It really doesn't take much to realize that bombing a city during a war is a war crime, it's common sense and not undue, like you said, as another uninvolved editor, User:Jr8825 pointed out in their comment. What's more baffling for me is that, while arguing that this bombing isn't a war crime, at the same time, you also argued that another bombing is a war crime, even though HRW also does not explicitly say "X is a war crime" about that, as you required. You seem to quite enjoy showing my one comment everywhere as "proof" that me and Solavirum "worked together". Contacting people off-wiki to exchange resources is common and instead of accusing me (and others like User:HistoryofIran), as you've done here, either use actual proofs or stop spreading ASPERSIONS.

4) Your explanation for this precisely shows how you've violated WP:AGF. Instead of asking me to elaborate on what part you didn't understand or want to be changed, you jumped to the conclusion that it was POV-pushing, reverted the map everywhere (including every single foreign language Wikipedia) and started accusing & threatening me.

7) Campaigned against it? I was the one who added about the Stepanakert bombing without hesitation when I thought that your source was RS and was explicitly saying that |Ganja was bombed because of Stepanakert". However, I later found out that that was your WP:OR.

"CuriousGolden's personal objections are the only thing against me adding my changes again" I think you're forgetting the fact that the volunteer in the DR repeatedly told you that what you want to add is OR (1 & 2) and not a single person has come in support of Stepanakert bombing's addition in the lead (Which honestly seems like an attempt to "justify" the bombing).

8) Changes you reverted weren't part of Solavirum's addition. You reverted it even after another, uninvolved person told you that the addition wasn't POV. And the revert was done when you didn't even reply to the comment of mine (you still haven't).

Your comment makes me, even more, convinced that the topic bans that User:Callanecc imposed have not given the desired effect. If my intention was to "witch hunt" and "take you down", I wouldn't have waited until now. The only reason I decided to report now was that I could not take the constant threats and POV accusations by you, even after I asked you politely not to repeat them.

I don't really care about what, if any sanction Steverci gets and my only wish is for him to stop his mean and threatening behaviour (not just me, but also others like here). As long as they agree to assume more good faith and avoid accusatory language (which crosses the line to ASPERSIONS in some cases as I've pointed out above), I'm fine with it. — CuriousGolden (T·C) 13:10, 4 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Notice

Discussion concerning Steverci

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by Steverci

1–2. The consensus for classifying an article as a "war crime" is that it is: a term with legal implications, in that if some country or other international body has ruled some action as a war crime, we can factually state that (and categorize it as such), but without that type of ruling, it must be treated as opinion. These edits were part of a clean up for the recent misuse of categories that resulted in the topic banning of User:Solavirum, a user that CuriousGolden just so happens to have contact with outside of Wikipedia and tried to speak in defense of for his enforcement request.

And in that same discussion, CuriousGolden was scolded by an admin for browbeating my enforcement request, so CuriousGolden accusing anyone of not AGF is quite ironic.

3. The article says nothing about the HRW classifying it as a war crime. The article states only Azerbaijan and Turkey classified it as a war crime, which is not enough due weight for Wikipedia to do so. And like #1–2, this was also part of a misused category clean-up.

4. CuriousGolden didn't explain why he was changing the names in his discussion opener, he just vaguely called them "problematic and inaccurate", which seemed to be WP:POVPUSH (the presentation of a particular point of view in an article). Even if he was trying to change the names to be what the common names were at the time, there were a number of location names that he neglected to change, as I pointed out.

5. As explained above, CuriousGolden's changes had signs of POV pushing because his name changes weren't consistent, as CuriousGolden partially admitted. If CuriousGolden actually said why he is making his changes, he would probably find a lot more good faith. He had also already added the image to many different language Wikipedias, which made the possible POV pushing seem aggressive.

6. Of the couple dozens of articles that CuriousGolden edited, some of them were on my watchlist. Rather than engage in edit warring by reverting them all, or starting the same talk page discussion for dozens of different articles, I did the most productive option: discussing all of the identical changes with CuriousGolden on his talk page.

7. I've been extremely patient in trying to resolve this per how the WP:DR guidelines suggest. Even though my edit had many reliable sources, when CuriousGolden reverted it, I decided to just go to the talk page to resolve it. Despite the sources being clear, both CuriousGolden and Solavirum (who often appeared in the same discussions) campaigned against any mention of the 2020 bombardment of Stepanakert. I tried opening a dispute resolution, which failed it get another opinion. I also opened an RfC on the talk page twice, but still no one else has come to give another opinion. Now that Solavirum is topic banned, CuriousGolden's personal objections are the only thing against me adding my changes again, yet still I'm waiting for another opinion rather than edit warring.

8. Interesting that CuriousGolden only quoted part of what I said and out of context. The changes I was reverting were done on February 5th by Solavirum, and were part of his arbitration enforcement request. I chose to wait until the enforcement request for Solavirum was finished before reverting it, in order to prevent an edit war. Solavirum was topic banned on February 14th, and I reverted the changes on February 15th. It is a shame that CuriousGolden's subsequent edit warring caused the back-and-forth diffs that I tried to prevent. So yes, CuriousGolden was quite literally doing exactly what another recently topic banned user had done, and I was giving him a fair warning.

Contrary to what CuriousGolden believes, I've been very conscious about adhering to all of the guidelines ever since my topic ban was removed. Ever since my ban was lifted, everything I've proposed adding has had reliable sources, I've been careful to get a consensus for anything that might be disputable, and I've only been editing with this account. I have even been occasionally emailing User:Airplaneman for advice when I wasn't sure how to go about a dispute.

I've been very careful with everything I've said and careful not to make any edits I couldn't defend. I hope the above list makes it clear how much thought actually went into each situation. This list of edits CuriousGolden provided seems to really be scraping the bottom of the barrel, with #1–3, 6, and 8 in particular having very dishonest explanations. I admit I should've been more polite/patient with #7, but otherwise this seems to be a WP:WITCHHUNT in retaliation for the enforcement request I recently made for CuriousGolden's friend. --Steverci (talk) 00:02, 1 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@CuriousGolden: I didn't realize how long my first comment had gotten and tried to trim it below 500 words, but you already replied to most of it so there isn't much I can remove now without this discussion getting confusing. I'll find a way to if an admin requires it however.

1–3. WP:ASPERSIONS isn't a Wikipedia policy either. But virtually every comment agreed that it isn't something that can be decided by WP:OR. What you're neglecting to mention is that Category:Armenian war crimes went from being created to one of the largest 'war crimes by country' categories in a few months, due to a user's misuse of categories that resulted in them being topic-banned. I removed most of them, and you tried to keep many that had no source for war crimes whatsoever. Examples are on the 1991 and 1992 shootdowns. In both cases, you accused me of WP:JDLI, demonstrating a lack of good faith by assuming I had malicious intent, when it was actually just your WP:OR. Naturally, when removing the categories from so many articles, it's possible that one may have actually been appropriate.

4. It's your responsibility to explain why you are replacing the map in the first place. How was I "threatening" you? Lol.

7. You mean that you did your own version of the edit in WP:SCAREQUOTES calling it retaliation, while my edit simply said the Stepanakert bombing happened first. It's not my fault you don't bother to read sources before you cite them. This is actually very similar to what you claim the war crimes issue is about, because the HRW source provides an assessment but never actually declares it to be a war crime, which was your WP:OR conclusion.

The volunteer also stated "I would like to remind those involved that back and forth discussion should be limited". I then replied to the volunteer to explain why the sources confirm a link, as they had asked me to. But you continued trying to have the discussion there even though the volunteer asked you not to, so they just closed the case as failed.

8. That is blatantly a lie, the whole text was part of his addition. And once again you're giving a dishonest summary of a diff. Jr8825 was only referring to the "result of the Armenian offensive" line, not the majority of the changes, such as the war crime category. I explained to Jr8825 why trying to "blame" either side is unencyclopedic and can easily be cut out, and he didn't dispute that. Didn't notice your response because I got 3 different pings from you, I'll get to it soon.

And while CuriousGolden is apparently now "convinced" that I should topic banned, during Solavirum's enforcement request he said neither genocide denial or ignoring category definitions "suggest any serious behavioural issues and seems more like content disputes". --Steverci (talk) 23:50, 1 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Just to note for the archived record, CuriousGolden said he won't won't reply to any more comments after I made the comment above. --Steverci (talk) 05:09, 3 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Jr8825

Just throwing in my two cents as someone who has been working with both parties in this topic area, I'm generally in agreement with Vanamonde93's thoughts on this – I think this is a case of both editors being sensitive to edits they perceive as favouring/disadvantaging one side of the conflict over the other. My impression is that both CuriousGolden and Steverci have been making consistent efforts to adhere to the policies relating to sources and NPOV, but that both editors made a number of misjudgements with their edits at the two main articles linked here, Battle of Kalbajar and 2020 Ganja missile attacks. It's essential that we remind ourselves to assume good faith on each others' part in these cases, and when they occur address each other respectfully and patiently. As a personal suggestion to both editors, linking the relevant policies and explaining in a clear, friendly manner where we think the other editor has made a mistake, then thoughtfully taking into account the other editor's explanations, will hopefully make such mistakes less frequent as the nuances of the core content policies become more familiar through repeated references to (and reading of) them.

I think a gentle reminder to both parties of the principles established at ARBAA2, as well as the civility policy's requirement for editors to treat each other with consideration and respect, might be helpful here. Jr8825 • Talk 12:36, 4 March 2021 (UTC) _{(edited: Jr8825 • Talk 19:28, 4 March 2021 (UTC))}[reply]

Statement by (username)

Result concerning Steverci

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

With the caveat that this is not a topic I am very familiar with; I am seeing some evidence that Steverci needs to be better about assuming good faith; but I'm not seeing anything else here that is more than a content dispute. Everyone clearly has strong feelings about the topic, as is the case for most nationalist conflicts on Wikipedia; we cannot sanction someone solely for that reason. Vanamonde (Talk) 22:10, 1 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The diffs included in this case report seem largely defensible. Steverci needs to tone down the terseness a bit but I don't think this report warrants a sanction. _signed,Rosguill ^talk 05:59, 4 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Manasbose

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning Manasbose

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: ତୁମ୍ଭର ପିତା ଓ ରାଜା (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 09:37, 3 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

User against whom enforcement is requested: Manasbose (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced: Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/India-Pakistan

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

Dilip Ghosh (politician) - 2 March 2021‎: Manasbose undo's without any clarification. 2 March 2021‎: Manasbose deletd content without any clarification again. 2 March 2021‎, 2 March 2021: Manasbose uses the same edit summary to edit-war time after time while the statements are connected to his corona-virus with no discussions.[245][246] Manasbose had previously deleted this any evidence of criticism here slowly for months. 29 April 2020, 14 September 2020,14 September 2020, 5 October 2020, 5 October 2020.
At the same time Manasbose added criticsim and defaming news to his Political opponent Mamata Banerjee at regular gaps. 25 December 2020.[247]. [248],[249]. Manasbose edit-wars over it constantly without giving any clarification the edit summaries another Users.[250][251][252][253][254]. Manasbose deleted reliably sourced accomplishments of her claiming Removed unnecessary information [255]. Manasbose even created a segment called Allegations of Muslim appeasement in the article. [256]. Manasbose has filled this article with criticism and controversies with news while removing any criticism in the article of her opposition politician Dilip Ghosh (politician) [257][258]
Hindutva - Manasbose adds content 25 Aug 2020, User:Kautilya3 removed it claiming "Removing UNDUE history for the lead; the sources don't say Chandranath Basu founded a "principle"", Manasbose added it again without any discussion claiming Reverted removal of well sourced contents [259].
Electoral history of Atal Bihari Vajpayee - Deletes huge content without any clarification on 7 February 2021.[260][261][262]
Delhi Metropolitan Council - Deleted sourced content with no explanation.[263]
Manasbose also openly supports Hindutva User:Manasbose/About, see the userbox. Nearly all his edits reflects it.

Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any

If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)

[264] by User:Newslinger

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

@Manasbose:

1. You "trimmed or removed" content in Dilip Ghosh while adding the same WP:NOTNEWS and WP:NOTDIARY in Mamata Bannerjee. I informed you I was only including material that had a lot of press attention.[265]

2. 90% of the edit is optimistic about her, while you censored it claiming Removed unnecessary information

3. No decieving, you reincluded it [266][267]

@Johnuniq: Manasbose "trimmed" all controversies in Dilip Ghosh, a highly controversial man from 23 April 2020 to 21 October 2020 which he calls as WP:NOTDIARY simultaneously stuffing his opposition Mamata Bannerjee with criticism and NOTNEWS from 28 March 2020 to 3 March 2021. I included only content that received a lot of media attention. If I write everything about him, the page will be brimming with his controversies.[268]. Recently User:Adinew56 is also involved in both articles sugarcoating Dilip Ghosh and defaming Mamata Bannerjee. [269]. I did not include those on my own, I restored what Manasbose deleted slowly for months in the sandbox.

"I recommend that admins keep an eye on both pages in case political supporters decide to manipulate it again to their desires"

ତୁମ୍ଭର ପିତା ଓ ରାଜା (talk) 07:42, 4 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested: [270]

Discussion concerning Manasbose

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by Manasbose

Lets go point by point.

1. In Dilip Ghosh article, I've trimmed or removed mostly some regular statements from his political rallies which falls under WP:NOTNEWS and WP:NOTDIARY. On the other hand user ତୁମ୍ଭର ପିତା ଓ ରାଜା (along with User:Walrus Ji who is currently blocked from editing) continuously added political statements and lawsuits in "personal life" despite many other users in the past reverting their edits. Not to mention user ତୁମ୍ଭର ପିତା ଓ ରାଜା has only edited Dilip Ghosh page and most probably is a WP:SPA. Also an admin User:Johnuniq called these edits typical gotcha nonsense (See: Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive1049#User:Amkgp is falsely accusing me of vandalism threatens block)

2. User says I removed reliably sourced accomplishments, I don't know but I removed "In a statement on 17 October 2012, Banerjee attributed the increasing incidence of rape in the country to "more free interaction between men and women". She said that "Earlier if men and women would hold hands, they would get caught by parents and reprimanded but now everything is so open. It’s like an open market with open options." She was criticised in the national media for these statements." in the same edit too, and it does not look like "accomplishment". As I said earlier, I mostly removed text which I thought falls under WP:NOTNEWS.

3. In the next edit, I replaced the word "founded" with "first used" as per the sources.

4. I don't know why electoral history of Atal Bihari Vajpayee needs 20-30 more independent candidate who polled less than 1% of the votes? Also, if my memory serves me right, I was the one who mistakenly added them in the first place.

5. If you had so much time to go through my edit history, you should have also seen the talk page. Firstly the page itself was created by me, and User:Modussiccandi tagged the page for deletion on basis of copy paste, so I just removed the questionable part until the discussion was over.

5. I didn't know supporting any particular ideology was a crime in Wikipedia? Isn't Wikipedia supposed to be a website where everyone can edit in civilly order irrespective of their ideology. -- Manasbose ^{(talk | edits)} 10:27, 3 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Vanamonde93

Manasbose ought to be aware that copying withing Wikipedia [271] requires attribution, given that they received a warning about this from Diannaa 13 months ago, and another warning from me eight months ago. Also, as in the above section about ChandlerMinh, the lack of communication about some of these edits is concerning. Edit-summaries are recommended for most edits; for contentious material, they are an absolute necessity. Vanamonde (Talk) 16:23, 3 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Tayi Arajakate

I've encountered some of Manasbose's contributions from time to time and I would concur with the filer that they have an advocacy oriented editing. Many of the articles they have edited are likely going to require a lot of cleanup. For instance, I had to remove a large portion of their addition on 15:19, 24 April 2020, on the page of Mamata Banerjee. The sources made no mention of Banerjee whereas Manasbose attributed a number of riots to her.

Other than this, most of their edits seem to consist of editing pages on elections and state units of the Bharatiya Janata Party. While there is nothing wrong with that in of itself but many of them currently have a promotional tinge. I had also noticed their slow trimming on the page on Dilip Ghosh with smaller edits and over a period spanning months, followed by an edit war over it. This struck me as deceptive and so I reverted their edits on 18:57, 12 October 2020 with an edit summary suggesting the people in dispute to make use of the talk page. The edit warring since then seems to have continued unabated.

I don't think its possible to have a neutral articles in this topic area if this kind of editing goes unaddressed, and especially if it involves lack of communication. I would also state that the filer themselves are to blame for imitating some of this behavior during the dispute from what I can see. Tayi Arajakate _Talk 11:24, 4 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I just received a weird message on my talk page from an IP user (Special:Diff/1010385841), with a threat of getting me topic banned and accusing me of being a "paid editor of a political party". Seems more than coincidental that this comes right after I presented my statements here. Note that the IP address geolocates to the same state that Manasbose indicates they come from on their userpage. Tayi Arajakate _Talk 07:00, 5 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by (username)

Result concerning Manasbose

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

While Manasbose should be strongly encouraged to use edit summaries, I don't see a clear need for a sanction at this time. The edits from April 2020 are a bit concerning, but the more recent diffs look like a content dispute where both editors involved should stop edit warring and seek outside input. _signed,Rosguill ^talk 05:37, 4 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@ତୁମ୍ଭର ପିତା ଓ ରାଜା: You started at enwiki in October 2020 and have a total of 38 edits (and a dozen more in the deleted User:ତୁମ୍ଭର ପିତା ଓ ରାଜା/sandbox), all of them related to Dilip Ghosh (politician). Have any of your edits not been to add negativity about him? I looked at a couple of the provided diffs of edits by Manasbose and they seemed ok, or at least not warranting admin action. If you have a couple of diffs from 2021 which clearly show a problem, please post them. I agree that Manasbose should use edit summaries if they wish to continue editing in contentious areas. Johnuniq (talk) 06:05, 4 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

AFPchadking

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning AFPchadking

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: GorillaWarfare (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 17:25, 5 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

User against whom enforcement is requested: AFPchadking (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced: Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/American politics 2#Discretionary sanctions (1992 cutoff)

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

00:31, 5 March 2021 arguments based in attacks against the page's editors rather than independent sources; borderline WP:NLT; "this will no longer be tolerated"
00:45, 5 March 2021 Casting aspersions despite the explicit warning directly above; "this will no longer be tolerated"
02:55, 5 March 2021 "As I said, this kind of stuff is done being tolerated here, we are going to be ameliorating this page imminently."
04:03, 5 March 2021 WP:PROMO based in press release/Fuentes' Twitter
15:37, 5 March 2021 more PROMO
17:00, 5 March 2021, revert #1 to reinstate ", a left-wing outlet," after I removed it as editorializing
revert #2
revert #3

Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any

None

If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)

Alerted about discretionary sanctions in the area of conflict in the last twelve months, see the system log linked to above.

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

AFPchadking appears to be here solely to POV-push on the Nick Fuentes article and the related America First Political Action Conference. In fact, I suspect the "AFP" in their username refers to this. They have repeatedly cast aspersions against editors at Talk:Nick Fuentes and made what seem like vague threats ("This will no longer be tolerated" ×2; "this kind of stuff is done being tolerated here, we are going to be ameliorating this page imminently"); now they're edit warring despite my attempt to start a discussion at America First Political Action Conference.

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

[272]

Discussion concerning AFPchadking

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by AFPchadking

Statement by (username)

Result concerning AFPchadking

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

Has anyone considered running a CU on this editor? I'm no CU, but the need seems blindingly obvious. If not, I'm not sure AE is required as much as a simple NOTHERE block. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 17:33, 5 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

[1] The administrator may indicate consent at any time before, during, or after imposition of the restriction.

[2] This criterion does not apply if the original action was imposed as a result of rough consensus at the arbitration enforcement noticeboard, as there would be no single enforcing administrator.

[3] Dickson, Caitlin (2021-05-01). "Exclusive: Pandemic relief aid went to media that promoted COVID misinformation". Microsoft News. Yahoo! News. Retrieved 2021-02-19.{{cite web}}: CS1 maint: url-status (link)

[old-4] ttps://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&oldid=1009112517#SpicyBiryani

[5] Heitzman, James; Worden, Robert L. (1996). India : a country study. Washington, D.C. : Federal Research Division, Library of Congress.

[6] Sarkar, Bhashkar. (1999). Kargil War: Past, Present and Future. New Dehli: Lancer.

[7] ttps://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Indo-Pakistani_War_of_1947%E2%80%931948&oldid=1003156922#Casualties_claims

[8] ttps://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Indo-Pakistani_War_of_1947%E2%80%931948&oldid=1008484498#Casualties_claims

[9] "Christine Fair speaks at MilLit Fest 2019". Retrieved 27 February 2021.

[10] Dogra, Chander Suta. "IAF Did Not Shoot Down Pak F-16 in Balakot Aftermath, Says US Scholar Christine Fair". The Wire. Retrieved 27 February 2021.

[11] Marlow, Iain. "India Never Actually Shot Down Pakistani F-16 in Kashmir Clash, New Report Says". TIME. Retrieved 27 February 2021.

[12] "U.S. count shows no Pakistan F-16s shot down in Indian battle: report". Reuters. Retrieved 27 February 2021.

[13] Abi-Habib, Maria. "After India Loses Dogfight to Pakistan, Questions Arise About Its 'Vintage' Military". The New York Times. Retrieved 27 February 2021.

[14] Seligman, Lara. "Did India Shoot Down a Pakistani Jet? U.S. Count Says No". Foreign Policy. Retrieved 27 February 2021.

[15] "Wing Commander Abhinandan speaks about how his MiG-21 got shot down". Retrieved 27 February 2021.

[:22-16] Farokhi, Zeinab (2020). "Hindu Nationalism, News Channels, and "Post-Truth" Twitter: A Case Study of "Love Jihad"". In Boler, Megan; Davis, Elizabeth (eds.). Affective Politics of Digital Media: Propaganda by Other Means. Routledge. pp. 226–239. ISBN 978-1-000-16917-1. Retrieved 17 February 2021 – via Google Books.

[Strohl_2018-17] Strohl, David James (11 October 2018). "Love jihad in India's moral imaginaries: religion, kinship, and citizenship in late liberalism". Contemporary South Asia. 27 (1). Routledge: 27–39. doi:10.1080/09584935.2018.1528209. ISSN 0958-4935. S2CID 149838857. Retrieved 20 February 2021.

[18] Sarkar, Tanika (2018-07-01). "Is Love without Borders Possible?". Feminist Review. 119 (1): 7–19. doi:10.1057/s41305-018-0120-0. ISSN 0141-7789. S2CID 149827310 – via SAGE Journals.

[:62-19] Waikar, Prashant (2018). "Reading Islamophobia in Hindutva: An Analysis of Narendra Modi's Political Discourse". Islamophobia Studies Journal. 4 (2): 161–180. doi:10.13169/islastudj.4.2.0161. ISSN 2325-8381. JSTOR 10.13169/islastudj.4.2.0161 – via JSTOR.

[20] [1]^[2]^: 4^[3]^[4]

[a]

[b]

[1]

[1]

[2]

[3]

[4]

[5]

[1]

[2]

[3]

[4]

[5]

[6]

[7]

[5]

[1]

[2]

[3]

[4]

@@ Line 1,290: / Line 1,290: @@
 :''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.''
 <!-- When closing this request use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. -->
+*Has anyone considered running a CU on this editor?  I'm no CU, but the need seems blindingly obvious.  If not, I'm not sure AE is required as much as a simple NOTHERE block. [[User:Dennis Brown|<b>Dennis Brown</b>]] - [[User talk:Dennis Brown|<b>2&cent;</b>]] 17:33, 5 March 2021 (UTC)
-*

v t e Noticeboards
Wikipedia's centralized discussion, request, and help venues. For a listing of ongoing discussions and current requests, see the dashboard. For a related set of forums which do not function as noticeboards see formal review processes.
General	Administrators Main Incidents Bots Bureaucrats Centralized discussion Closure requests Education Interface admins Main Page errors Open proxies VRT Oversight User permissions
Articles and content	Biographies of living persons Copyrights Questions on media Problems Dispute resolution External links Fringe theories Neutral point of view Original research Pending changes Reliable sources Resource requests Scalable vector graphics Spam Blacklist Whitelist Style Titleblacklist Translation
Page handling	History merges Mergers Splits Moves Protection Importation XfD Articles Redirects Categories Templates Files Miscellany Undeletion
User conduct	Conflict of interest Contributor copyright Edit warring and 3RR Sanctions Personal restrictions General sanctions Contentious topics Sockpuppets Usernames (Requests for comment) Vandalism
Other	Arbitration Committee noticeboard Requests Enforcement Edit filters Requested False positives Questions Help desk Teahouse Reference desk New articles Requests for comment Village pump Policy Technical Proposals Idea lab WMF Miscellaneous WikiProject proposals Discussions for discussion
Category:Wikipedia noticeboards