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June 23

FIFA tiebreakers

In the Confederations Cup, the US just advanced to the semifinals thanks to having scored more goals than Italy because the tiebreaking sequence goes points → goal difference → goals scored. But if Italy had lost 4–1 (i.e., both teams had the same number of goals scored), what would have been the next tiebreaker? howcheng {chat} 04:54, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Why not look it up on the Cup's website?86.211.237.136 (talk) 10:01, 23 June 2009 (UTC)DT

I might be mistaken, but if Italy had lost 4-1, I think the goal difference would have been the tie-breaker. However, in a notional example where points, goal difference and goals scored are the same, the usual procedure in FIFA competitions is to go on the basis of games played between the two tied sides, in the same sequence, results, goal difference, goals scored. If they still can't be separated, I think it's still decided on the toss of a coin. Can anyone confirm? I'll ask the Football WikiProject --Dweller (talk) 10:39, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

refer 2009_FIFA_Confederations_Cup#Tie-breaking_criteria, it is referenced (article 23.6 in referenced document).--ClubOranje^T 11:01, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Guitar tuning

So I was inadvertently detuning my guitar the other day (long story), and ended up with the following: EADGAE. It seems like it should be some sort of actual tuning, but I didn't see anything on the article, nor could we figure out exactly what it would be. Any ideas? It's quite easy to get to (the fifth string is tuned to the second fret of the fourth string instead of the fourth fret... Full step down) and has an interesting sound, but not even the great Google enlightened me. --75.216.124.177 (talk) 08:30, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Google suggests it is a folk-y tuning, sometimes used by Ani DiFranco and the Indigo Girls. Adam Bishop (talk) 13:32, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

[1] — Matt Eason ^{(Talk • Contribs)} 10:34, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

mythbusters gunpowder shotgun shell amount

Hi guys

in mythbusters they attach a cannonball to a chain and then to a 190 pound mannequin, and the launch the ball from a cannon, he is moved 6 feet. They say to acheive this they used 2 shotgun shells full of black powder. Does anyone know how much this would be in grams. because I have no estimation of how much black powder generally weighs, it could be anything upto 90g or as low as 20g . Does anyone know, or have an estimate as to how much powder this would be in grams, pehaps maybe someone has an empty shell some powder and a set of scales?

Thank you very much

Rob

I should note that the Mythbusters explicitly state that you should NOT attempt these experiments at home. 65.121.141.34 (talk) 13:28, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Our article on the [MythBusters] clearly explains their policy of not giving the details of bombs, chemicals, explosives and other dangerous items used in the show, specifically to make it impossible to reproduce their experiments. They themselves are highly trained, and take a lot of precautions. The episode you are referring to was episode 123, testing the myth that a prisoner once escaped by being shot from a cannon, using the ball of his ball and chain as the cannon ball. The myth was thoroughly busted, with the mannequin losing its legs. - KoolerStill (talk) 13:50, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Not to be picky, but I think you meant to wikify Mythbusters. Freedomlinux (talk) 03:59, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

That doesn't mean it couldn't have happened, just that the prisoner would have to be prepared to lose his legs to gain his freedom! Prokhorovka (talk) 20:18, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Except that in the demonstration, the leg was ripped right off the dummy and went flying over the wall -- so in effect the prisoner would be dead, which I suppose you could define as freedom of a certain sort. --- Medical geneticist (talk) 21:34, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

I suppose you could say the prisoner was "foot loose" after the escape attempt. Edison (talk)

That would leave quite a "leg"acy at the prison. 65.121.141.34 (talk) 15:22, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Pull the other one. . . DOR (HK) (talk) 04:00, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Greatest loss of human life in a single day

What single catasthropic event saw the greatest loss of human life.

It probably depends how you define a "single catastrophic event". Would a battle count? About 70,000 people were said to have been killed immediately when Hiroshima was bombed. More were probably killed during single Firebombing raids, but I'm not sure if they would fall into your single event criteria. TastyCakes (talk) 15:52, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Oh, here is a list of natural disasters by death toll. Some are not immediate. TastyCakes (talk) 15:57, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

And here is a List of battles and other violent events by death toll. TastyCakes (talk) 15:58, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

A "catastrophic event" is an "act of God". Warfare is an act of man. Apples and bananas. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 16:03, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

(Further edit conflicts...) I think it's not unreasonable to describe wars and battles as catastrophes. What's your source for formally defining 'catastrophe' as equivalent to the legal term 'act of God'?

In any case, it seems from the site's own articles that the single deadliest one-off event was the 1556 Shaanxi earthquake. AlexTiefling (talk) 16:07, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

(After edit conflict) As TastyCakes says, see the top ten list at list of natural disasters by death toll. If you exclude the top two events because they were floods that happened over a period of time, not on a single day, you get to 1556 Shaanxi earthquake which killed 830,000 people according to some estimates. After that you have 1970 Bhola cyclone with an estimated 500,000 fatalities. Gandalf61 (talk) 16:04, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Which goes to show that man's alleged ability to destroy himself pales next to the power of nature. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 16:06, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Although I'm sure if we put our minds to it we could give it a run for its money ;) TastyCakes (talk) 16:10, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Exactly. A 10 MT H-bomb in New York, Moscow, London, or any other very urban, dense city would produce death tolls in the millions within seconds. --140.247.42.218 (talk) 18:39, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Even though it spanned several years, would the black death be a single event? That resulted in Megadeaths. 65.121.141.34 (talk) 16:10, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

That's true, and it would be even more startling if you compare deaths as a percent of total population due to an event. TastyCakes (talk) 16:12, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

If you start adding up all the deaths from WWII it makes a pretty good dent in the human population, but it still pales compared to the black death, which killed like a third of Europe. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 16:14, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Spanish Flu killed a very large number of people in a fairly short period of time. Probably more than black death (although I haven't looked up the figures, I'm guessing based on the massive growth in population between the two). --Tango (talk) 19:00, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

There's a good change the 1976 Tangshan earthquake actually killed more people than the Shaanxi earthquake, making it the deadliest day in human history. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 17:24, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

It's worth noting that as large as these numbers are - a quick 'back of envelope' calculation suggests that about a half a million people die every day from "non-catastrophic" reasons...which puts "ordinary living" right up there in the top ten...except that it happens every day and not just when some volcano does it's thing. SteveBaker (talk) 19:22, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

But that means the earthquake day was twice as deadly as usual! ;) TastyCakes (talk) 20:00, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Catastrophe, by definition, is not "ordinary". Obviously millions are born and millions die routinely every day. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 20:01, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Are these earthquakes not all disqualified since the death isn't all on one day. Some of it is caused by being crushed, but many are people dying of starvation in the rubble. If we pull people out alive 5 days after, it is logical to assume some people die between the earthquake and the body being found.

Maybe the user who posed the question could clarify the question a bit. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 21:05, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

This same question was answered at the Science desk in February. See Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Science/2009 February 1#Day with the most number of deaths. My calculation there was for about 160,000 "non-catastrophic" deaths per day.-gadfium 00:02, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

The deadliest recent disaster would have been the 2004 Indian Ocean earthquake. Something on the order of 200,000 people died that day. Be glad you live where you live. Weepy.Moyer (talk) 01:16, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

There was the mythical Atlantis that could have been a far greater disaster, but it is only mythical. The Mongols liked to execute everyone in a city when it captured them. Did they capture any cities that would have been larger then 500,000 or so? 65.121.141.34 (talk) 20:21, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

This face :(

I have a really serious problem and I don't know where to turn to. I have faith that Refdesk Wikipedians must have some words of advice or direction for me. Btw, I am a decently prolific wikipedia contributor but hiding behind an IP for now. Anyway here goes my question:

I have a face which immidiately gives away my emotions. Make no mistake - I am a very emotionally mature person, and never let emotions inflence me into making impulsive decisions. I have handled tough situations in life with great composure. However, my face gives away what I am feeling immediately, and this leads to problems, especially in my professional life. I have people routinely coming to me and saying: why were you so upset, why were you so pissed, why are you so sad, you really are in a good mood, etc. etc. Close friends have told me that whatever I am thinking shows up on my face. To repeat, this leads to problems in my professional life. The immediate trigger was today when while attending a class (I am attending B-school now) the professor made some unjustified & unkind remarks at me - I just shut up and gritted my teeth, thinking I had done the right thing. But afterwards everybody came to me and asked why I reacted that way. I didn't know what "reaction" they were talking about, but they said I looked like I was going to punch the professor in the face any minute. Needless to say, [this presents me as an emotionally immature person which I am not. Is there any training or therapy which can help me get over this? Or any other solutions or tips? Thanks very much for patiently listening. --220.225.87.66 (talk) 16:27, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Oh, and I am a 27 year old male. --220.225.87.66 (talk) 16:58, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Well if you know about the problem and still can't force yourself to stop giving yourself away, I'm not sure how useful our suggestions will be. All I would say is that maybe you should try to control your emotions on the inside as well as what shows. For example, I sometimes get very irate when I'm driving, and I'm sure it shows to other drivers looking in my windows. If I manage to put myself in the mind set of "whatever, I'm just doing this to get from A to B and that's going to happen sooner or later however annoyed I get", I am much calmer inside and, consequently, probably look pretty placid to other drivers as well. I would say your problem isn't too bad, however. Some people would consider it a positive attribute to have "an honest face". TastyCakes (talk) 17:03, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Actors are able to convey many emotions that they may not necessarily be feeling. I suspect they practice in front of a mirror. The questioner might try the same thing - to "learn" how to look the way he would like to present himself. Of course, there are times when it's appropriate to show emotions. But if showing emotions can get you in trouble, then some discipline is needed. "Never let 'em see you sweat." Nor get angry (unless you want them to see you angry). Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 17:50, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Can I suggest this might not be as big a problem as you think it is? Per an recent article in the New York Times on blushing, it suggests that though people who feel like they give too much away are doing themselves harm, most people in fact see such things as being a sign of unusual honesty. --140.247.42.218 (talk) 18:31, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Couldn't you ask a doctor? It sounds like a psychological (thus, medical) issue to me...There are doubtless professionals out there who can help you, and a GP would be the only person I could think of off the top of my head that might know them. Of course, I could be wrong. Vimescarrot (talk) 19:55, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

I'm not sure having an expressive face is a medical issue, or even a psychological one. The only psychological issue I see is worrying about it too much. --98.217.14.211 (talk) 01:57, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Our article poker face is a disambig page that doesn't actually link to any article describing a poker face, but that's what you seem to be wanting. Perhaps you should in fact start playing a lot of poker (preferably for no stakes or for tiny stakes), in order to practice hiding your feelings. Tempshill (talk) 21:00, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

You don't get a poker face from playing poker. --98.217.14.211 (talk) 01:57, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Not automatically, but perfect place to practice. Tempshill (talk) 03:52, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Why would that be? So you can lose money while getting no better results? So you can complicate the entire endeavor by introducing gameplay and strategy into it? --98.217.14.211 (talk) 15:11, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Why do you suppose it's called a poker face? Surges of emotion, desperation when the flop doesn't pan out, the thrill of a secret AA that's going to trounce all opponents but you have to hold it in so they don't all fold ... it seems to me like a good training ground. Tempshill (talk) 03:02, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Try acting classes, especially mime, to learn awareness of what your face is showing to others. Then practice an expressionless face, to use as your first response to any emotion, to give yourself time to consider whether you should show it or not. As a last resort, you might consider Botox.- KoolerStill (talk) 12:07, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

I note that you're a man. Luxuriant facial hair can help disguise some emotions. And anyone can wear sunglasses. Just don't wear them indoors, because then you look like one of the Blues Brothers. --Dweller (talk) 12:01, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for all your suggestions, folks, I'll consider them all. I am also considering going to a therapist to rule out anxiety or something of that sort. Thanks again --115.118.194.18 (talk) 12:46, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Cotonou , Benin

Is there a travel Agency that can tell me how much Basic Travel Allowance (in U.S. dollars ) ,is needed to travel from Cotonou,Benin To Las Vegas ,U.S. (ONE -Way),before I book the flight ? EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED Thankyou ,Gary Territo 6/23/2009

Please don't add your email address - we don't reply by email anyway - your answers will appear right here.SteveBaker (talk) 19:15, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Planning to get rich playing poker, eh? Bring lots of money. I usually book flights through orbitz.com, but I don't know whether they can handle Benin. PhGustaf (talk) 17:27, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Orbitz and Expedia cannot handle the COO IATA airport code, but the Air France website does. I asked about a round trip from Las Vegas to Cotonou and got a round trip fare including taxes of US$3,233.01. The fare may differ since you're starting the trip from Cotonou. Enjoy your 53.5 hours of flying. Tempshill (talk) 20:57, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Q: How can you leave Vegas with a small fortune? A: Go there with a big fortune. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 03:57, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

They're not kidding when they say it $tay$ in Vega$. Clarityfiend (talk) 05:00, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Are you asking how much flights etc. will cost from Cotonou to Las Vegas? Or has someone told you that they need a certain amount of money to fly from Benin, perhaps as some kind of airport fee? If so, this specific phrase appears to be a very common scam related to 419 scams. Please be very careful about giving money to people you don't know. --Kateshortforbob 14:15, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Yes - certainly, someone convinces you that they are some enticing young lady who just wants to nothing more than to drop her knickers for you if only you'll pay her airfare...it's an obvious scam. Don't pay a cent - don't mention credit card numbers, bank details or any other personal information. Trust me...it's a trick. SteveBaker (talk) 19:17, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

another code

ACYD TASE HALJ BSNG ITIM UDFP DFHT CADR DMOB MTSD TCPO VWRE ACNG CBRT MPOJ FGTD XSRW TYNM XYDB BJHI RMTP DFMJ JLAA METR YZGD MPTB POUI PETL LMHD APKK RAWP HOOH ABYD XASD ALFF JLHX IJYK HCRD ACRI OQDL XBGT HJIG UVNH ZRTS JPVQ PSGT RASP YZOZ NQMP WYLQ PTMT BANM.

VWDM HLOO JGTW TEBP RTIB WZXD TREW UWSS ARYS MNIT JENN YZQQ FHCF NTYH QPNG KAWN AZHH BWQG CDVH IWTG FADO ACSF CGYI JBIU JPFM WYOK ARGO WXWX RADF AFLA BJMD ZOOP AHHA KEYN FJJF OSDD WAPL OTHY OXOX TUBD DJOO ZXDE BTJV ARMI BKRT KAHN PRYG PSYT ZWGP BZIH ATGD ATIB TZUF LFGT ANND.

BDDB BKYD ATOM IMHI EATH TROP AFLA EKDA JMZA WSEP PQCD PEVT KPPK CJPA LPWI QEBX PTVQ LTDO SWPQ ZMLU SQSH AXXI OTTT AOWD KBVE BQZI GZWG ARRB XRTZ EPLH RWPV WYFM PTYK FADI SUMD MJUF FELN JPII KLHG DJZF STUX IEBV SYYN HIHI FETT HIXI AFZV CASM GSXY HPOW LETC PSIN SUHH MEZL FGYN GXLG WAHL XYDD RUXW QRUQ IXSD PJUT VYOK CALB ORUT APQK DSHI SZYC TCLK ZEKV RWLW RTGS AMJL NPNN FDTB.

So far, my only clue is 5^6, and that sentences end with "." I suspect that given the length of the code, each 4 letter group represents a cleartext letter. Any ideas on this one? 65.121.141.34 (talk) 20:14, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Well, since almost none of the quartets repeat, either it's so large an alphabet (with punctuation, symbols, different cases, multiple choices for each letter, etc.) that this is too small a sample to decypher, or it's not a simple substitution cypher, but something requiring manipulation (e.g. shifting over one letter every group). There are so many possible rules (e.g. increase first letter by 5, decrease second letter by 17, etc.) that mere inspection won't solve this. You might want to look at letters repeated within a group, and estimate whether the number of overall repetitions falls outside the range you'd expect in a purely random set of letters. The breaks between four-letter groups are also very likely be purely arbitrary (to hamper unauthorized solution), in which case you have to decide where repeated words are starting and ending. H, I, X, and T look as if they might reward further attention. —— Shakescene (talk) 22:00, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Ok, well you've got a 52, 55, and 75 quartet series (quick count), which sounds completely possible for the number of letters in 3 sentences (though of course, the spaces might be there just to throw you off), so I agree that the quartets likely point to a letter, though you might need to work a little more. Just a guess but 5^6 (= 15625) might be a hint as to what you're supposed to do with the quartets to make them into single digits. One thing I notice right away is that the letters do seem to be randomly arranged; there are few repetitions, and more than anything their position in the alphabet seems to average right around the middle. None of them come close to AAAA or ZZZZ, which suggests a normal distribution for a random sequence. I can't think of anything else, does 5^6 mean anything to you? 124.154.253.146 (talk) 07:30, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Is there any of the 26 letters that is not repeated? Or are there two that are repeated far less often than any others (so that they could substitute for each other, as in I=J or U=V ?) If either is true, this might very well be a variant of the Playfair cipher, where 25 letters are set out in a 5 x 5 grid, and a pair of letters is indicated by the letters on the opposite diagonal (e.g. AZ = EV). The cipher itself was usually not hidden that carefully because what was needed was the key that scrambled the grid, e.g. SLIGHT displacing ABCDEF at the top of the grid. Note the doubles within some of the quartets such as HIHI, WXWX and OXOX, which might correspond to double letters. —— Shakescene (talk) 09:06, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Every letter is repeated. The only 4-letter grouping which is repeated is "AFLA". In terms of frequencies: [('T',53),('A',49),('D',43),('P',41),('H',34), ('I',31),('B',29),('O',29),('R',29),('S',29),('W',29),('M',28),('F',27),('L',27),('Y',27), ('G',25),('J',25),('N',23),('E',22),('X',22),('Z',22), ('K',19),('C',18),('Q',17),('U',16),('V',14)].

Angus Lepper^{(T, C)} 16:39, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Interesting that the often-interchangeable U and V together have a combined frequency (16+14) of 30, which is less than half that of the most frequent letters. That proves absolutely nothing since the distribution at first blush looks pretty normal, but it's possible that two of the 8 or 9 least-frequent letters occupy the same spot on a Playfair type of grid (possibly indicating that they stand for I & J or a similar pair). The Playfair cipher article mentions that German forces used a double-Playfair cipher in the field during World War II, where the second letter of a pair would be drawn from a separate table. That might fit with the groups of four in the code above, two letters indicating the first letter of a plaintext pair, and the two other letters the second plaintext letter. —— Shakescene (talk) 21:17, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

ACYD TASE HALJ BSNG ITIM UDFP DFHT/ CADR DMOB MTSD/ TCPO VWRE ACNG CBRT MPOJ/ FGTD XSRW TYNM XYDB BJHI/ RMTP DFMJ JLAA METR YZGD/ MPTB POUI PETL LMHD/ APKK RAWP HOOH ABYD/ XASD ALFF JLHX/ IJYK HCRD ACRI OQDL XBGT HJIG UVNH ZRTS JPVQ PSGT RASP YZOZ/ NQMP WYLQ PTMT BANM/.

VWDM HLOO/ JGTW TEBP RTIB WZXD/ TREW UWSS ARYS MNIT/ JENN YZQQ/ FHCF NTYH QPNG KAWN AZHH BWQG CDVH IWTG FADO ACSF CGYI/ JBIU JPFM WYOK ARGO/ WXWX RADF AFLA BJMD ZOOP AHHA KEYN FJJF OSDD WAPL OTHY/ OXOX TUBD/ DJOO ZXDE BTJV ARMI BKRT KAHN PRYG PSYT ZWGP BZIH ATGD ATIB TZUF LFGT ANND/.

BDDB BKYD/ ATOM IMHI/ EATH TROP AFLA/ EKDA JMZA WSEP PQCD PEVT KPPK CJPA LPWI QEBX PTVQ LTDO SWPQ/ ZMLU SQSH AXXI OTTT AOWD KBVE BQZI GZWG ARRB XRTZ EPLH RWPV/ WYFM PTYK FADI SUMD/ MJUF FELN JPII KLHG DJZF/ STUX IEBV SYYN HIHI FETT HIXI AFZV CASM GSXY HPOW LETC PSIN SUHH/ MEZL FGYN GXLG/ WAHL XYDD RUXW QRUQ/ IXSD PJUT VYOK CALB ORUT APQK DSHI/ SZYC TCLK ZEKV RWLW/ RTGS AMJL NPNN FDTB/.

Words are now separated by slashes. 65.121.141.34 (talk) 20:24, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

June 24

Music in supermarkets

How is the music played in supermarkets selected? Is there some kind of feed or playlist or station that is the same throughout a specific chain? One discount chain I go to seemingly plays any pop that would have made its way to radio stations in the past 30 years or so, no matter how obscure. Pinback for instance, who I love, but who have also never even broken through to any level of mainstream radio airplay as far as I know. I also remember hearing something a while back about how they will never play anything above a certain tempo, because it would be make shoppers walk too fast and therefore buy less, is there any truth to that? Recury (talk) 02:42, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

If we have an article on this, it is hidden under some other name. But this on-line music store specialises royalty-free music (which may account for the older more obscure songs at your store). The site has two columns of places listed, ranging from grocery stores through dentists to airports, for which they claim to provide music appropriate to the psychological needs of their respective customers. They don't say if this is based on studies or their own guesswork. I did hear once of a theatre fire in which lives were saved by playing loud marching music, thereby reducing the panic to the exits, but this might be just another urban myth.- KoolerStill (talk) 03:40, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

See Category:Industrial music services, which lists several such systems, including Muzak. Broadly speaking, I think that the very large chains (e.g. CVS Caremark) make (or copy) their own playlists and insert their own desired promotional or informational announcements in between the songs. —— Shakescene (talk) 04:56, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Yes, it varies a lot depending on the customers they are trying to attract. When I complained to Somerfield about their force-fed muzak they told me their selection was targeted at a BBC Radio 2 customer base. The worst muzak I've heard was in the former Woolworths (UK) who appeared to target young deaf people, so it's not really surprising that they went bust.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 08:19, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

The organizations which collect royalties for song composers are zealous about not allowing businesses to play music for free, at least in the U.S> and Canada[2]. "Old" rock and pop songs are rarely old enough to be public domain, and stores do not usually play popular songs of the 19th century. I know of a small store in the U.S. which has a satellite receiver which picks up a store music channel which is played over the public address system. The owner pays a monthly subscription fee. The songs are really well done instrumental covers of pop, rock, and jazz tunes of the last several decades, and the original artists get their royalty checks. There is more than one channel. The songs are from some huge playlist and repeat only after weeks have gone by. In the U.S. Muzak was and maybe still is carried on an FM subcarrier transmitted by regular FM broadcast stations, which is only audible on special receivers. If a restaurant or bar in the U.S. plays a regular FM station, they risk fines. Maybe they pay an annual license fee. Nothing here constitutes legal advice, but there appear to be special provisions for small Mom and Pop stores in the US to play an ordinary radio (not PA connected). Edison (talk) 14:00, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

I used to think the muzak versions of "Tie a Yellow Ribbon 'Round the Old Oak Tree" were the most execrable things ever devised by the mind of man. But when I hear what's played in supermarkets these days, I'm not so sure. -- JackofOz (talk) 11:53, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

I agree - it can easily be MUCH worse! Many years ago a Kroger branch near us installed motion detectors under various food counters so that they'd play some god-awful sound effect as you walked past. For example, as you passed the seafood counter, you'd hear sounds of the ocean and seagulls...at the dairy counter, cows mooing. I spoke to the manager and told him in no uncertain terms that he'd lost my several thousand dollars per year business by doing that...and asked whether he thought that it would actually attract people to his store in any conceivable way. He just muttered something about headquarters coming up with the idea and how his staff had been complaining about it - and there was nothing he could do about it because it's "policy". Meh. SteveBaker (talk) 23:46, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

The store I worked at in High School installed stuff like that. Us employees figured out that if you stuck a piece of tape over the sensor, it shut up. 65.121.141.34 (talk) 13:51, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Changing lines on the Tube

I will be travelling from Heathrow to Victoria by tube with a heavy suitcase and a carry on bag. I will need to change from the Picadilly to the Circle/District line at either Gloucester Road or South Kensington. Can anyone tell me which station would be the easiest in light of my luggage. Thanks 80.254.147.68 (talk) 05:55, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Since the District/Circle line is one of the shallowest on the Underground, and the Piccadilly line one of the deepest, I wouldn't have thought there was much to choose between the two. Gloucester Road tube station#Station layout makes mention of a lift, whereas there is no mention of lifts in South Kensington tube station, so I'd go for Gloucester Road myself. --Richardrj ^{talk email} 08:02, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Your best bet is actually to change at Hammersmith where all you have to do is walk across a platform as the two lines run next to each other at the same level. Your journey time on the train will be slightly longer, but as your interchange will be much quicker and easier your overall journey will be a couple of minutes quicker. Thryduulf (talk) 08:31, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Why would the "journey time on the train be slightly longer"? Do you mean the time spent on the District/Circle line train? By the way, I silently fixed your link to Hammersmith. --Richardrj ^{talk email} 08:44, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

The District Line stops at West Kensington and the Piccadilly doesn't, and the District may also make a longer stop at Earl's Court because different branches of the line meet there. Also, Gloucester Road or South Kensington are served by more branches and therefore more trains than Hammersmith, so you may get one at bit quicker. But that's only after you get to the platform. As Thryduulf says, the easier change of trains at Hammersmith is the dominating fact. Change at Hammersmith (or the next stop, Barons Court, which has the same layout). By the way, before boarding the District Line train at the other side of the platform, do check the departure sign to make sure it is not going to Edgware Road. (That is not a normal route but they can occasionally be diverted that way.) A train to any normal, i.e. any other, destination on the District Line is fine for Victoria.

Final comment: if by any chance your reason for going to Victoria is to get a train to Gatwick Airport, consider taking the bus (coach) from Heathrow to Gatwick instead. Then you don't have to change at all, and it should be faster unless traffic is pretty bad that day. --Anonymous, 09:51 UTC, June 24, 2009.

Heathrow Tube

Can anyone tell me which terminal at Heathrow has the easiest access to the tube system. Thanks 80.254.147.68 (talk) 05:55, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

The quickest access would be Heathrow Terminal 4 tube station, as the other station serves the other three terminals. But note that Terminal 4 is a long way from the other terminals. There are lifts at both stations for disabled access.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 08:34, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

(after edit conflict) All the terminals have easy access to the tube - see Heathrow Terminals 1, 2, 3 tube station, Heathrow Terminal 4 tube station and Heathrow Terminal 5 tube station. Terminal 4 has a slightly lower service level than the others, and I believe that Terminal 4 also has the longest walk from the terminal, but this is not very significant. Thryduulf (talk) 08:37, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

company watchdog

I recently read in a research paper about a old company called Jardine Matheson Holdings, now based in HK but operated by the Keswick family of Scottish descent. The company doesn't have a very innocent past (established itself trading opium), but they don't do that anymore (hopefully). It's an absolutely huge company now, with arms reaching all over the world.

The paper I read detailed the activities of JMH in Indonesia as they burn (illegally) huge swaths of rainforest to make room for oil palm plantations, and how groups were attempting to stop them by influencing buyers in the UK by raising awareness of the problems with oil palm. Now obviously this was done because such groups lack the resources to attack the company legally, which is unfortunate.

Anyway, my question is to do with the fact that this kind of information is "out there". Is there a watchdog that reports on the activities of big companies like this? The reason why I ask is because I'm sure investors would be interested to know, if they could, of this sort of exploitation. JMH is such a huge entity and it's businesses span many industries all over the world, so a large scandal could potentially effect many of it's children companies, or companies that it holds large investments in. If there is such a watchdog, is this kind of information available on the internet?

I'd be grateful for any relevant information at all. Thanks! 124.154.253.146 (talk) 06:47, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Look for reliable sources. Google should help. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 09:39, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

For criminal conduct, the "watchdog" is the police. For breaches of corporate law or regulations, the "watchdog" is the local securities regulator - and the stock exchange plays a part by enforcing its listing rules and other such rules.

For wholly owned subsidiaries of Jardine Matheson, you would look towards its "home" jurisdiction - Hong Kong. For other companies affiliated with Jardine Matheson, but which may themselves be listed or incorporated or domiciled in another country, you would look towards that jurisdiction.

If you want to report illegal activities by a JM company, you might need something more solid than a "paper" - but that depends on the paper. Then you would find out which country the illegal activities are alleged to be carried out in, and contact the police there.

If the local police do not agree with you on the assessment of the legality of those activities, then I'm afraid there isn't that much you can do to get those activities "reported". --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 09:59, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Quite apart from any government or legal regulation, there's been a movement in many countries for "socially-responsible investing", a service much sought not only by individual investors but by those who manage the funds and pensions of charities, churches, trade unions, local governments and similar non-profit institutions. Several watchdog groups exist and have various systems for ranking companies on their policies in such areas as business ethics, the environment, tobacco, alcohol, armaments, human rights, energy, labour policy, equal opportunity, fair treatment of suppliers and relations with the inhabitants of the areas where they operate. There are also a number of investment funds which give preference in their portfolios to what they judge to be socially-responsible securities. The few names and details I have escape me now, but try Googling phrases such as "socially responsible investment". Outside pressure, including pressure from investors, does sometimes have at least a fleeting effect on corporate policies, as seen in the cases of South African divestment and distributing infant milk formula in the Third World. —— Shakescene (talk) 21:33, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Here are two sites approaching the issue from contrasting viewpoints, found by Googling "Corporate Social Responsibility monitors" and "Corporation Watch":

• Corporate Social Responsibility Monitor
• Corporate Watch: what's wrong with Corporate Social Responsibility?

More specific search terms should bring you closer to the particular things you're seeking. —— Shakescene (talk) 04:17, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Some people just want to have a exciting experience and a good feeling for protecting nature. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 21:20, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Assuming you have hard evidence of criminal wrong-doing, and aren't just spreading slander and rumor, why haven't you gone to the police? DOR (HK) (talk) 04:05, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Read the question more carefully. The information is at least second-hand since it's from a research paper and hardly solid direct evidence upon which the Indonesian police can act (always assuming they wished to do so; there are often huge profits to be made by local landowners, soldiers and other authorities in such plantation of Borneo/Kalimantan, which has been happening for decades). I'm sure that the groups that are fighting the rain-forest depletion (perhaps the Rainforest Alliance) have already pursued whatever direct paths to prosecution and police activity might be open to them. And the original enquirer said they don't have the funds to pursue litigation. Which is why (I assume) they're pursuing a campaign of public agitation and investor education, in order to generate enough pressure on management to discourage further cutting. —— Shakescene (talk) 04:17, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

It appears that there was some misunderstanding. I was using JMH as an example; I have no intentions of accusing the company of anything or spreading rumors. My question was if there existed organizations that seek to represent investors' interests in reporting accurately what sort of activities a company (any company) is involved in. I used JMH as an example because it obviously takes advantage of the fact that it's a global entity with investors in countries far from its operations. The same can be said about many big companies. Something along the lines of "corporate social responsibility monitor" sounds about right, I'll do some more searching, thanks. 124.154.253.146 (talk) 06:10, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

business strategy

why does the External environment factors that are uncontrollable by organization influence the business policies.

Please do your own homework.

Welcome to the Wikipedia Reference Desk. Your question appears to be a homework question. I apologize if this is a misinterpretation, but it is our aim here not to do people's homework for them, but to merely aid them in doing it themselves. Letting someone else do your homework does not help you learn nearly as much as doing it yourself. Please attempt to solve the problem or answer the question yourself first. If you need help with a specific part of your homework, feel free to tell us where you are stuck and ask for help. If you need help grasping the concept of a problem, by all means let us know. (Moreover, if this isn't a homework question and you really need someone to explain why a fire or an earthquake, just to pick two random examples of an external environmental factors, influence business policies, I'd have to suggest that perhaps you just aren't thinking very hard about this.) -- Captain Disdain (talk) 11:14, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Short answer: Because no business is an island, entire of it self. —Tamfang (talk) 02:58, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

This is a leading question. It supposes that external forces influence business policies. Sometimes they don't. There's a word for those businesses: Bankrupt. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 03:07, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Or (bang up to date here) Government-owned. (That might be two words). --Dweller (talk) 12:08, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Ahem: Leading question </pedant> AndrewWTaylor (talk) 17:33, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Exotic Buenos Aires

South Carolina Governor Mark Sanford disappeared for several days, with his staff telling reporters he had gone hiking, but when he showed up he said he had actually gone to Buenos Aires to "recharge" because he wanted to "do something exotic." What are some of the more exotic things for tourists to do in that city (besides the opera, the symphony, and seeing notable buildings)? Edison (talk) 14:29, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Not a direct answer to the question, but the definition of exotic suggests that for a South Carolinian to visit Buenos Aires, Argentina would be considered exotic in and of itself. Coreycubed (talk) 14:32, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

OK, what might he do in Buenos Aires that is "exciting and foreign" as the definition cited says? Edison (talk) 19:51, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

This msnbc article says the exotic and foreign thing he was doing was an Argentinian mistress. [3] Livewireo (talk) 19:56, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Yep, more coverage on that then on the mass riots in Iran. I guess the media knows how to set priorities. 65.121.141.34 (talk) 20:05, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Depends where you are. Here in the UK, the exotic appeal that Buenos Aires holds for Governor Sanford has entirely passed us by. AlexTiefling (talk) 20:17, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Seems like unbalanced coverage, then. We in the states heard recently all about Brit politicians getting in trouble for billing the taxpayers to rent porn or to have the moat cleaned. Our evening news even gave considerable coverage to the Profumo Affair back when. Edison (talk) 21:10, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

I went and checked the BBC News website again after posting this; they are reporting it, and giving it high profile - as an 'Americas' story. Since they removed the option for UK users to see the international home page by default, I wasn't seeing it there. So they are reporting it - but have recently made a stupid alteration to their site which conceals it and makes them look unbalanced in the way you describe. AlexTiefling (talk) 21:27, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

It also warranted a mention on the 10 O'Clock News. Angus Lepper^{(T, C)} 00:26, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

I read something tonight that if there's any good news about this story, along with the one the other day about the GOP Senator out west, it's that this won't really hurt the GOP much, since their poll numbers are already so low. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 07:55, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

hijabi nude pics

Is there a website where I can view the pics of Muslim girls who are naked and wearing hijab?

The obilgatory xkcd link states there is porn of everything. On the other hand, our article on hijab states In popular use, hijab means "head cover and modest dress for women" among Muslims, which most Islamic legal systems define as covering everything except the face and hands in public. So unless it has other meanings, it's difficult to see how you could be both naked and completely covered. Googling "hijab porn" comes up with pictures you may be interested in. Vimescarrot (talk) 18:12, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

The OP could look at pictures of women in hijab and imagine how naked they might be underneath. Edison (talk) 19:49, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Edison, where is this OP?

"OP" means "Original Poster" it refers to the person that asked the question. --Tango (talk) 00:37, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Do we keep a list of strangest questions ever asked on the RDs? This one would have to go toward the top. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 01:50, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

I don't believe anyone does, but feel free to start. Algebraist 01:52, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Such things have been attempted in the past... 124.154.253.146 (talk) 05:56, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Was it here that someone once asked for pictures of people having sex whilst wearing Hazmat suits? I did see someone randomly requesting that in a non-porn place somewhere last year. The thought of someone having that as a specific fetish cracked me up... --Kurt Shaped Box (talk) 19:42, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

That's nigh impossible. I mean, if the woman's covered head to toe in a hijab, how will anyone know if she's naked underneath??? 117.194.224.3 (talk) 06:30, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

I think that by hijab the OP means headscarf only. He is not talking about a burka. That is my guess, at least. --Saddhiyama (talk) 09:22, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Dunno about "strangest", but it's pretty creepy. --Dweller (talk) 12:09, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

I'm reminded about the Wierd Al Yankovic song and music video Living in an Amish Paradise. The article says "In one part, two boys are looking at a supposed Amish porn magazine (the cover slogan says "Plow My Field!"), but in the centerfold all the woman is showing is her shin (this, anyway, is considered to be very scandalous)." Then there's "Anything Goes (song):" In olden times, a glimpse of stocking was thought to be something shocking..." In the Dick van Dyke Show, the network set a strict limit on how many episodes a season Mary Tyler Moore could wear Capri pants, which revealed the shape of her well-toned calves. Annette Funicello was not allowed to wear a bikini in the 1963 "Beach Party" movie. In the 1970's the shape of womens' nipples was often visible through blouses or swimsuit tops, after an iconic 1976 poster of Farrah Fawcett in a red swimsuit displayed hers, such that stick-on nipples were added to store mannequins. Now aging hippie ladies are about the only ones with any nipple show through. Edison (talk) 19:30, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Yes but why would you want that? Cuddlyable3 (talk) 21:08, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, but those ladies are wearing "jilbabs," not hijabs. (NSFW) Edison (talk) 23:39, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

I suspect that this might be what the OP is after - women wearing nothing more than a jilbab and a smile. It seems to exist. Steewi (talk) 01:28, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Very reminiscent of "Wearing nothing but a Wimple and a smile," like a Nun given to debauchery. Edison (talk) 05:21, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

We've had this question before, in the last six months or so. There is an actual term for this fashion trend of "sexy" hijab, but I can't for the life of me think of it. My Google-fu is weak tonight, but search terms like "hijab-sexy" and "hijab-chic" seem to get you what you're looking for. Matt Deres (talk) 03:00, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

I laughed so hard when i read this i told a couple of friends who decided in there ultimate wisdom to find some pictures/video----suggest you look harder there is a TON of this stuff----but i absolutly refuse to give you the links lol it has people in Burkas lets say lifting and showing ect...but not being a perverted person i absolutly refuse to give any links LMAOChromagnum (talk) 06:27, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Hello. This is just a note to remind you of our policies regarding respect and politeness on Wikipedia. In a nutshell, sarcastic comments such as this and insults such as this are not productive. The relevant guidelines can be found at WP:NICE and WP:BITE and are more formally laid out at WP:Etiquette. You've made some positive contributions on the RefDesk, but you should keep in mind that disruptive behaviour is not tolerated and can lead to disciplinary action. Matt Deres (talk) 00:56, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Yes i have gone to these pages and seen the comments you have mentioned there is also one on a scientology page!!!!

I am extremly angry about the comments signed with my account name please except my extremly sincere appologies i have just caught my work colleuge using my account to go through the refrence desks please remove the two comments you have seen plus the one i caught him doing on scientology page.

I will issue an appology if needed to the relevent pages, if you feel the need to take action i can understand however this will not be happing again. Frustrating because i enjoy this site but feel i will be frowned apon now, rest assured this issue is resolved again my appologiesChromagnum (talk) 06:27, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Study of human sexuality

I want to know

1. Is there any post-graduate degree (MD) or diploma offered by any recognized medical school in sexual medicine after completion of Bachelor of Medicine, Bachelor of Surgery, particularly in the US, UK or Canada?

2. Is American College of Sexologists a government-recognized institution? Does a Fellowship of the American College of Sexologists (F.A.C.S.) have any academic validity?

3. Does American Association of Sex Educators, Counsellors and Therapists recognized by the government or by medical school accreditation bodies?

4. Does any university (recognized by the government in which it is located) offer postgraduate degree/diploma/certificate in sexology? SuperRobotCat (talk) 15:09, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

I don't know about the US or Canada, but the UK I think sexual medicine would be a specialism within medicine, rather than a separate degree. You would go through the standard process for becoming a doctor and would specialise in sexual medicine once you get the chance. --Tango (talk) 00:39, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Two different things are being talked about. Sexual medicine is a branch of medical science focussed on sexual health, and regulated and accredited (generally) in the same way that other branches are. Sexology is a general study of sexual matters, and seemingly not that tightly regulated. DJ Clayworth (talk) 21:10, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Furthermore on DJ Clayworth's bit, sexology is more ofa cross-disciplinary focus of study rather than a degree. It covers aspects of medicine, psychology, sociology, anthropology, gender studies, and other smaller portions of other fields. Studying any of these can lead to a career in sexology if you select your course of study well. Consider choosing a university where there is a centre for research in sexual health. The medical aspect is covered in specialised research following a degree in medicine. This means that you would complete your degree in medical science and then find a research group focussing on sexual health. There are different aspects of this, including sexually transmitted infections, reproductive health, impotence, genetic conditions of the sexual organs, psychiatry of sexual conditions, etc.

I cannot comment on the official recognition of the professional societies. Steewi (talk) 01:36, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Most cars

What junkyard has the largest number of broken cars? 65.121.141.34 (talk) 19:02, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

At what point does something stop being referred to as a car and start being referred to as a pile of parts? Dismas|^(talk) 11:45, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

When it is not identifiable as a car. 65.121.141.34 (talk) 13:16, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Would an otherwise intact car, which is missing only its outer sheetmetal, and thus not "recognizable" be a car, or would the shell itself, without any working parts, be "recognizable" as a car? Most junkyards are in a state of flux, with cars in various states of dismantle as parts are sold, sheetmetal is packaged for recycling, etc. etc. One could certainly rate a junkyard based on raw tonnage of material contained, or sales of parts, or some other quantifiable rubric; but a raw headcount of cars inside the junkyard becomes problematic. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 14:01, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

I see what you mean. I am looking for the one that processes the most cars a year. 65.121.141.34 (talk) 14:17, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Might be "Harry's U-Pull It" in Hazleton, PA. At least, that's what their site claims. --jpgordon^{::==( o )} 21:36, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Recovering files "permanently" deleted in recycle bin

Moved to WP:Reference desk/Computing Exxolon (talk) 20:48, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

California State Parks' Opponents

It seems like I've only been hearing one side of the whole state park closure debate. It seems like everybody wants to keep the parks open. Yet, clearly there are some people who want to close the parks. However, I haven't seen much of an argument other than "outdoor recreation is a luxury" and "we have to do this, there's no alternative." What do those supporting closure of the parks have to say about the studies that show the parks are an integral part of the state's economy? What do they have to say about all the tourist money lost if the closures go ahead? --hello, i'm a member | talk to me! 19:19, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

While no doubt there are some people who want to close the parks, my personal suspicion is that almost none of those people are actually in government. In my opinion the proposal is a way for Schwarzenegger to rattle some cages; if it actually stays that way in the budget it's probably because he miscalculated. Or maybe he even wants it to be that way for a year or so, but again not because he really wants them to be closed, but more to convince people that things are serious.

No comment on whether this is actually a good plan. It's just my intuition about what he's thinking. --Trovatore (talk) 19:48, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

There's a 24 billion dollar budget gap that has to be closed or the government will start being unable to pay its bills (unlike the federal government, California can not run a deficit and finance it with borrowed money). I don't think it's a matter of people hating the parks, it's a matter of them prioritizing other things, like education, prisons etc. Would you rather parks being temporarily closed to visitors or releasing a whole bunch of prisoners early? That's the kind of tough choice facing the government, and to be honest I don't really buy the "integral part of the state's economy" line. Well let me rephrase that: integral, perhaps, important, probably not. No it's not ideal that people wouldn't be able to visit the parks, but something has to give. TastyCakes (talk) 19:55, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

That money has to be cut is certain. The parks budget is at best a small piece of that puzzle, though, and it's not clear that eliminating it will actually save money (people will go into the parks anyway; there's really no way to keep them out, and without rangers there they are more likely to cause wildfires, which are very expensive).

So you have to wonder — did Arnie really think it was so important to shave off a tiny sliver from the cutbacks to general assistance, education, MediCal? Or that he could push through cuts of, I don't know, 15.1% to those things, but not 15.2% (just making up numbers here — I haven't actually done the arithmetic)? Or, did he want to make a point? My guess is that he wanted to make a point. He may have thought that there were a lot of people who voted against Props 1A-E who wouldn't notice the cuts in the aforementioned big-budget items, but would notice the closure of the parks. As I said in my previous edit summary, this is just speculation on my part, but it rings true to me. --Trovatore (talk) 20:25, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Probably he wants to make cuts to a wide variety of things so that he can cut something that each voter actually uses. It's too easy for the voters to say "Eh, It'll work itself out." if the cuts don't affect them personally. APL (talk) 23:29, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Precisely. It's to make a direct hit on voters. And, frankly, it's to make them suffer the consequences (i.e. to punish them) for voting against the tax hikes. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 05:39, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

I'd rather they released the prisoners early. California's prisons are horribly overcrowded and many of the inmates are there for no good reason, serving inflated mandatory sentences under Three Strikes or stupid drug possession laws. -- BenRG (talk) 07:30, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Hey, here's an idea: Instead of releasing the prisoners, turn them into forest rangers. They'll be paid prison wages, and it will cut down the overcrowding of parks by tourists. Maybe just don't put any arsonists in that job, though. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 07:44, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

I prefer the idea of putting them all on the Channel Islands (the California ones) and just let them take care of themselves. you wouldn't need thousands of guards, just a few patrol boats to make sure they dont have their buddies rescue them. 65.121.141.34 (talk) 15:10, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

That seems like a good idea, until the President's plane crashlands there, and we have to send in Snake Plissken (who, at 58, is no spring chicken) to get him out. 86.149.201.131 (talk) 00:51, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

BAYER

Why isn't Bayer in the article of list of main pharmaceutical companies by size?

That is a good question, even if it's not a RefDesk question. It appears to have been removed by an IP editor back on June 2 with no explanation. APL (talk) 21:07, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Last year's Fortune Global 500 listed Bayer as number 155 among all international companies, marginally below GlaxoSmithKline (no. 151) and noticeably above the Roche Group (no. 175).

See Fortune magazine, July 21, 2008 (Vol. 158, no. 2), page 166, or go to the Fortune Global 500 web page. (Incidentally, the next Global 500 list should be out next month.) —— Shakescene (talk) 21:49, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Well, need I remind everyone that If there's a problem, go ahead and fix it...--Jayron32.talk.contribs 03:50, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

I haven't even seen the article in question; I just happen to have the Global 500 issue of Fortune. Is there something that stops you from heeding your own reminder? ;-) —— Shakescene (talk) 04:08, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

I don't have access to the source material; you apparently do... --Jayron32.talk.contribs 04:51, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Now that I've seen the list — no, I don't have enough source material (e.g. for the amount spent on research). I was merely confirming that Bayer AG (now BayerSchering or something) belonged in the list. The Fortune Global 500 link I gave will give you about as much as I have before me here. My impression is that someone was updating the list and somehow passed over both Bayer and Schering-Plough, which are now apparently merged. —— Shakescene (talk) 06:59, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

We are talking about the list of only pharmaceutical societies and not of all kinds of socities.I'm chemist and i know that Bayer is one of the main in the world.

June 25

what is a detective's license good for?

I'm reading detective fiction: the Nero Wolfe canon. In most of the books, either Wolfe or the narrator has occasion to remind the police that he has a valid New York detective's license, which carries some ill-defined legal privileges. What might they be? For instance, is a licensed detective immune to charges of trespassing on the job? —Tamfang (talk) 04:39, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

See Private investigator#Training, other qualifications and advancement, which describes licensure procedures, which appear to be required of detectives in many (but not all) states in the U.S. In lots of cases, stuff which is perfectly legal and unregulated in a non-commercial manner (for example, selling your old TV on Craigs List) are still regulated when the activity is done at a level which could be considered a job or business (for example, selling hundreds of old TVs). While asking people questions is unregulatable, doing so as a business IS regulatable, which is probably why many states require licensure of their private detectives. So, the advantage of being licenced is likely so that you can legally run a detective business. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 04:49, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

One point-- it is illegal in New York for a private investigator to describe him/herself as a "detective". That title is reserved for the police. Rhinoracer (talk) 11:33, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Anyone can say "I am with the police" or "I am helping the police". Cuddlyable3 (talk) 20:54, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

And those anyones can also get into trouble for misreprenting themselves as police officers. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 21:40, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

I'm just helping the police like any ordinary patriotic and decent citizen who loves his country would want to do, and since you don't feel the same, I think we'd better investigate YOU. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 16:24, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

The most important reason for having one is that without one you cannot serve as a private eye in exchange for money. (In many jurisdictions.) Similar to having to get a law license before hiring yourself out as a lawyer. You may be fully qualified, but if you're not licensed, you can't do it.APL (talk) 16:17, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

(sigh) Thanks to all who repeated what I reckoned was a given, that various states restrict entry into many occupations. As usual I overestimated the degree to which I made my question clear: that I'm interested in privileges beyond the freedom to operate a business. —Tamfang (talk) 22:09, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Addresses of famous people

I read in the local newspaper (Kolkata, India) recently that a man in the city sends snail mails to famous people like Brad Pitt, Hillary Clinton, George Bush etc. and they send him their autographs in turn. How on earth does he know these people's addresses. I'd like to do the same thing too, but I don't know how to go about it. Thanks in advance! 117.194.224.3 (talk) 06:43, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

I would imagine they use a service like www.WhoRepresents.com, which will provide you with contact details for celebrities' agents in return for a fee. Karenjc 06:57, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

I wonder if the fee's really necessary. Addresses that will reach someone in the celebrity's entourage are usually available not only on the Internet (e.g. at http://www.imdb.com ) but in standard sources like Who's Who. Politicians who want to get re-elected have to provide their constituents with some kind of address, as do most business leaders who want to stay solvent, so they should be even easier to reach. And few journalists will make it hard for people to offer tips and interviews by becoming completely inaccessible. —— Shakescene (talk) 07:07, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

And I wonder how anyone would know that an autograph obtained that way is genuine? It could be a temp signing it. Or a machine, even. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 07:42, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Because after this man sent his letters, two or three of them even called him up on his birthday to wish him. At least, Hillary Clinton and Bill Clinton did... Only, I hope he's not fibbing... 117.194.227.192 (talk) 07:54, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

My guess is he's making the whole thing up. -- BenRG (talk) 09:00, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

I wouldn't be so sure. I've tried contacting a couple of well-known people and they usually reply. It's good for their image, their business, and being appreciated also simply feels good. It has a lot of advantages to respond.

Yes, but Hillary Clinton or any other celeb doesn't have the time to be calling all of these people on their birthdays. Dismas|^(talk) 11:42, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Probably not in most cases, but they do make phone calls, and it's possible he's telling the truth. -- JackofOz (talk) 11:49, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Some years ago, when I was a kid, I wrote to a whole bunch of famous people. I had no idea of their real addresses, so I sent them "care of" places they were closely associated with, professionally. It worked. I had about a 75% response rate. It was a pretty eclectic bunch I targeted; my favourite replies were from David Gower and Cyril Smith. --Dweller (talk) 12:13, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

It's pretty well established that if someone has written a book - that their publisher will forward mail to them - so getting your letter to these people (or at least to their flunkies) is very easy indeed. Most celebs will send a signed photo on request (although whether it was "machine signed" or really, truly signed by the person is hard to know) - and perhaps, if it's a very non-busy, attention-seeking celeb and you write a particularly touching, clever or significant note - you might maybe get a short personal note in reply. I flat out don't believe that those politicians phoned this person on his birthday...not unless there was something remarkably special about the guy...so I'd strongly suggest a "fib". SteveBaker (talk) 23:34, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

This WSJ article, printed as an "amusing first-page story" in April, is about a woman who runs a fan-mail service which receives letters addressed to Kevin Bacon, Samuel L. Jackson, Richard Gere, and various others, and discusses what happens to those letters. From the article: "We have a few customers like Hector Elizondo who will come in the office and sign their own photos," Ms. Kehoe said. "He's the sweetest guy in the world. I think Charlie Sheen also signs his photos. He likes to be liked by his fans." Tempshill (talk) 23:37, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

regarding nuclear engineering

Sir, I want to clear my doubt. Can a undergraduate student currently undergoing power systems engineering pursue a m.tech degree in nuclear engineering.

Maybe. Why not ask the institution in question? Algebraist 16:14, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

musical instrument

What is the proper name of the valveless, straight-line trumpet used for fanfares at British coronations and similar high ceremonial occasions?69.132.93.133 (talk) 17:39, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

I think you're talking about Bugle (instrument). Friday (talk) 17:40, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

The key word you missed was "straight." Heraldry trumpets fit the description. Some are shown here. Wikipedia does not seem to have an article on them. They only play harmonic tones, and could not play a scale unless the notes were at a very high pitch. Edison (talk) 19:17, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

I know nothing about music or musical instruments, but clarion might fit your description. Heraldic trumpet also sounds very likely. I presume that the end farthest from the musician flares out into a trumpet-like bell. —— Shakescene (talk) 21:24, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

"Fanfare trumpet" does get some use. --jpgordon^{::==( o )} 21:29, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Fanfare trumpet sounds like what OP was describing. Here are some pictures [4]71.236.26.74 (talk) 06:15, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Natural trumpet is also very relevant to this question. Steewi (talk) 01:43, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Code for numbers to letters conversion

I am attempting to hide the word "catastrophe" using numbers to represent the letters. I need three different ways that could be solved without using any codes specifically designed for the word. I currently have two (using the letters on the telephone buttons; and each letters' position in the alphabet so A=1 etc.) but I cannot think of a third. Is there something else that commonly associates numbers with letters? --Ye Olde Luke (talk) 21:03, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

I don't know how well-known your cipher has to be, but you could play with the abbreviations in the Periodic Table of the Elements. Ca = calcium, Ta= tantalum, (or C = carbon, At = astatine,) As = arsenic, P = phosphorus, He = helium etc., but I'm not sure how to fit in the t-r-o sequence. Then you could replace each element with its atomic number.

You could also play with ASCII and similar text-encoding systems for computers. —— Shakescene (talk) 21:37, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

103-71-101-71-87-101-156-255-97-137-129. Franamax (talk) 22:04, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

If you are trying to encrypt messages, use real cryptography and not kid stuff. A common, low tech, relatively secure system that doesn't involve computers is the book cipher. 208.70.31.206 (talk) 02:38, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

I can't speak, of course, for the enquirer, but this looks more to me like trying to set a puzzle that is reasonably solvable by lay people rather than hard-core encryption for security purposes. —— Shakescene (talk) 03:28, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Franamax, your amino acid code is good, but I needed something with the same number of letters as the original word. Shakescene (love your username BTW), I decided to go with yours, and I'll just give them the TR (the O could be oxygen). Thanks all! --Ye Olde Luke (talk) 06:20, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Atbash. (Works in English too) Then convert to numbers using your second idea. --Dweller (talk) 09:40, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Colors of trolls?

Do nature trolls have a certain colors? If so is indigo or blue color troll the strongest troll, and pink and orange troll is the weakest. Do sequence of troll from weakest to strongest go from pink, coral, peach, turquoise, lime green blue,then purple troll? Is there such thing as a brown, black, and white troll.--69.229.111.118 (talk) 21:04, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

If you're talking about in the context of a particular game, book, or movie, or something, you should say so. Friday (talk) 21:06, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

No, I don't believe there is such thing as a brown, black, and white troll, though I am not an expert in the field, and I have no verifiable sources. 124.154.253.146 (talk) 02:05, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

As far as I can tell, no one has ever bounced white light off of a natural troll to tell for sure. They mainly seem to exist in fairy tales, fantasy novels, and internet forums, where the population is artificially maintained. 65.121.141.34 (talk) 16:20, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Maybe it depends on what you feed them? Vimescarrot (talk) 18:18, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Question is, are we currently feeding one? · AndonicO ^Engage. 04:03, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Going with fictional trolls, it depends on the environment on what color they are as well as the fiction world. -- Legeres (talk) 19:24, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Deaths coming in threes

What is the proper way to slap down people who keep saying that deaths "come in threes", particularly with famous people? It's not quite the Texas sharpshooter fallacy, is it? Thanks. CSWarren (talk) 21:36, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Without doing any research whatsoever, it's confirmation bias. Unless all famous deaths are being considered (they're not), and unless all "threes" use the same criteria (they don't), it's nothing more. — Lomn 21:42, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Tell that to MJ... TastyCakes (talk) 22:48, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

The plural of anecdote is not data. Can you sometimes draw some sort of death-in-three connection? Sure. Can you draw one more frequently than probability suggests? Nope. — Lomn 22:58, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

It's interesting how often people say things like "it doesn't happen more often than probability would suggest", but they have never actually done a study to see if that is true. They simply assume that it isn't true. DJ Clayworth (talk) 14:41, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

You're right, but I'd like to think that the burden of proof doesn't lie with common sense in cases like this. — Lomn 18:27, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

It's the usual deal - since the idea that things come in threes became a 'meme', people notice when something does come in group of three - and they don't notice when they don't - so it becomes self-reinforcing. Also, it's extremely hard to distinguish something "coming in three" twice in a row - versus coming in six at a time. Does the saying come with time limits? If two of your distant relatives died on the same day as Micheal Jackson - does that count as a "three"? If so - ask yourself this: Would someone who doesn't know you or your relatives consider that same "group" to be a "three"? I rather doubt it! Half a million people died on that same day...does that mean that this wasn't a "three" at all? When you start asking what the saying actually "means" - it all kinda falls apart. SteveBaker (talk) 23:24, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

You mean Michael Jackson, Farah Fawcett, and Ed McMahon? Clearly a trio. Edison (talk) 23:35, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Old superstition. Ironically, Walter Cronkite was rumored dead over the weekend, and so far he's outlasted everybody famous this week. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 00:12, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Talking of rumours, the commonly rumoured "third death" Jeff Goldblum is quite alive, but the media storm is causing a bit of overload on this police page. Gwinva (talk) 00:55, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

indeed, what even constitutes the three? Before I read that Michael Jackson and Farrah Fawcett died, my first impression was that David Carradine was the first of the triad; Ed McMahon the second, and was waiting for the third. When two hit at once, it means that a) either Carradine is not part of any celebrity-death-triplet, which of course breaks the meme since he's clearly famous enough, but did not die as part of a "three" OR that b) this is four deaths in close succession, which of course also breaks the "rule of three". As noted, its clearly confirmation bias, which basically means that people expect famous people to die in threes, and so just group them into whatever cluster of three famous people is most convenient. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 02:28, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Yep - exactly. Had Jackson not died - Carradine would have been the third in those who believe in the meme. Then Jackson dies and suddenly Carradine isn't famous enough to count...and neither are the other half dozen who died recently (John Callaway, Bob Bogle, Shelly Gross, Charlie Mariano...). What rule is the universe using to pick those who 'count' and those who do not. SteveBaker (talk) 03:30, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Yes, this whole theory irritates me...if it had even a remote shred of validity, the where was number two or three when Heath Ledger, Kurt Cobain, or Michael Hutchence passed away? cheers, 10draftsdeep (talk) 17:58, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

The important thing is that Steve Jobs is safe for now.A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 12:52, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

They're playing Michael Jackson's music all over the radio now. It sounds like he made the right career move. A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 16:05, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Just so long as they don't turn his house into another Graceland. 65.121.141.34 (talk) 16:14, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Well, I guess it did once have a theme park 10draftsdeep (talk) 17:58, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

I used to hear this concept as the more generic "bad things come in threes". I wonder if that's connected in some way with with Three on a match (superstition). And I wonder how the Catholics felt about that, given that the Trinity is something that comes in three. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 15:03, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Interesting question, one I was thinking about recently. I haven't formally examined it, but I think it is the combination of two phenomena, one statistical one behavioral or psychological.

Rare events roughly follow a Poisson distribution.

Consider an event that happens on any day with a 20% probability. I'm making up the number, but it could correspond to a celebrities death, or some personal bad news. On any given day, there's roughly an 80% chance no such event will happen. There's about a chance in six one will happen. If one happens, we say, oh how sad, and reflect upon the event, not on the number of events.

There's about a chance in 60 that two occur on the same day. We call this a coincidence, reflect on the events and a little on the mild coincidence of both happening. But a chance in 60 means this happens several times a year, so it's a coincidence, but not much more.

Now three on the same say, that's more interesting. Just over one chance in a thousand (916 for the anal) three of the same event will happen in the same day. So three celebrities dying on the say day, or locking yourself out of the house, getting into a car accident and hearing about a friends illness on the same day might qualify.

Four in one day is really rare; happens one in any 18 thousand days.

So why is three special? Because one or two are so common, they are just called happenstance or coincidence. And four is quite rare. So three is rare enough to be notable, but common that one can point to many such events. Plus, in the very rare cases that four occur, we don’t say to ourselves - that sounds like refutation of the "threes" rule, we say "Holy Carp, what's going on?"

The above is pure stats (assuming independence). Now bring in psychology, in more than one way. If three celebrities die on the same day, some see it as confirmations of the threes rule. If two happen on the same day, and one a day later, we don’t call it refutation, we say three celebrities dies this week, everyone knows they happen in three. If four die in a week, three might be major and one B list, so we still call it three. If two are major, and one is B list, we still call it three. If it's two movie stars and an athlete, we call it three celebrities. If there's two movie stars, a TV star and an athlete, we'll talk about the three entertainers.

It gets worse - if two happen, and we start talking about bad things coming in threes, and the third doesn't happen, we won’t call it a refutation of the rule, we'll simply be thankful that the rule didn't play out THIS time.--SPhilbrickT 20:56, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

It gets even worse. Check the newstands for a special soft-cover book called "Celebrating the 70s", put out by People or Life or somebody like that. Farrah and Michael are both on the cover. Other still-living members of that photo collection might want to schedule their annual checkups. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 21:40, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Sometimes they happen in fours.[5] A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 18:45, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

A bonus! Curiously enough, McMahon and Mays kind of "bookended" this past week's celebrity deaths, and both of them served as pitchmen, Mays being a tad louder than McMahon. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 20:37, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

How to get a resume out there to become a cosmetologist in a nursing home/assisted living environment??

Question originally posted by IP:66.20.186.220 moved from Talk:Cosmetology by Franamax (talk) 21:38, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

I have had a license for a very long time.....I have had several years experience working in salons, and at one point some 20 years ago owned my own facial/nail salon. I currently live in NC, and have a parent who is in a nursing home. I love elderly people, I have a caring, tender heart. I love putting a smile on their face. I have had the opportunity to offer my services, and have not lost my touch. I am not up to date on the high fashion current styles of todays look, but would love to cater to the senior society. How can I best put myself out there.?

Why don't you send a brief letter outlining your experience to all your local nursing homes? You could even offer to do a few complimentary visits. Gwinva (talk) 22:38, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

How about offering your services for free for a day to a local nursing home - wait a while and then ask if they are interested in paying you to do it again. Or - since you have a parent in a particular home - how about asking the people there for advice. Perhaps make it clear that you aren't looking for a job from them - just whatever advice they have to give. SteveBaker (talk) 23:17, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

I misread the heading here, and had a lovely and creative moment pondering the role of a cosmologist in a nursing home. --Dweller (talk) 09:38, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

A day in the life of a cosmetologist. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 13:48, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

LGBT South Asian

Is there an organization that deals with South Asian gays, lesbians, bisexual and transgender?

Al-Fatiha and Imaan both deal with Muslim LGBT folk, including Muslim South Asians. It's not much help, of course, if you're Hindu. The Vaishnava Association is for gay and lesbian Hindu Indians. There is also the Naz Foundation and The Queer Media Collective (QMC) mentioned in Homosexuality in India. Prince Manvendra Singh Gohil is a gay Prince of Gujarat, who runs the Lakshya Trust, an NGO promoting HIV/AIDS prevention. Steewi (talk) 01:56, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Additional: There are also references to the India Network For Sexual Minorities which might be useful. There is not yet a WP article for it. Steewi (talk) 01:57, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Foot marks in worn-out sandals/flip-flops

Why is it that after use for a while, you can see the marks of your toe prints and foot on it? What causes these markings (is it the sweat of your foot compared to the material of the flip-flops) etc., and why does it happen less with other shoes?

Is there a way to get rid of these marks so that the sandals look closer to what they were like when new (I mean reasonably, even just slightly so). or are they destined to stay like that?

I have no source for this but I would suspect that the wearing of socks has a lot to do with why you don't see this with other types of footwear. And also, the material of the sandal probably has a lot to do with it as far as the absorption of sweat and the rubbing of the feet keeping the dirt off. Dismas|^(talk) 00:55, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Heaven knows I know nothing of podiatry or the physiology of walking, but could the deep impressions have any relation the fact that almost all flip-flops (almost by onomatopoetic definition) and many sandals have no backs to help support the weight of the foot as it treads down and to allow the foot to move around within the shoe? One's foot is basically falling down on exactly the same point with every step, and not moving again until one lifts the whole calf. —— Shakescene (talk) 06:57, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

I'm not convinced that shoe soles don't get marked. Sure you can't see the toes as clearly as you can with sandles, but that's because you don't have to realign your foot with every step, as you do with sandles, which most people seem to do with their toes. 124.154.253.146 (talk) 07:11, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

You can't see into the toe area of closed shoes, to see what's going on in there. With soft inner soles, such as sport shoes, you CAN often feel "toe-grooves", if you feel with your hand. But they are more likely to occur with open footwear, more so with the looser ones, because it's necessary to grip with the toes in order to keep the footwear on. This puts more body weight over the toes, while in closed shoes more weight would go on the ball of the foot. - KoolerStill (talk) 09:44, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Is there a way to get rid of the marks, then?

Weark socks, or walk flat-footed. 124.154.253.146 (talk) 05:39, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

June 26

van

what is the longest commercially available van?

Could you clarify what you're looking for? Are you looking for the van which has been available for sale for the longest period of time? Or are you looking for the longest van (length from bumper to bumper) which is currently available? Dismas|^(talk) 00:52, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Additionally, could you clarify what you're using as a definition for the word "van"? The van article lists a number of different types including full size vans, step vans, etc. Oh, and commercially available where? Are you limiting this to just the US? To Europe? The whole world? And I think this will be my final question, if it is the physical length that you are looking for, will the wheelbase do? Or do you need the full exterior length? Dismas|^(talk) 04:16, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

This one perhaps? But seriously, probably this. Mind you... does Chevrolet still make vans? 124.154.253.146 (talk) 07:08, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Van cat

75 feet high,149.9 meters long, or 160 meters long or for centuries in Turkey. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 13:33, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Where do you live? --Dweller (talk) 12:58, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Not sure if it is commercially available, but this Van is 74 miles long at the longest point

let me clarify. which full-size van that is commercially available anywhere in the world has the greatest length? wheelbase or full exterior length would both be fine.

The longest van I've seen was one rented by my father some years ago. It was a Mercedes and was about 7 metres long (possibly a LWB Sprinter or Vario) with a 7.5 tonne capacity. Apparently, it was the biggest thing he could drive without a UK truck driving license. Astronaut (talk) 16:35, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

The longest commercial van I'm aware of is the escort Harriet van Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 14:59, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

What on Earth is there to do in Toronto on a Thursday night for an eighteen-year-old?

I'm eighteen; I can't drink yet. I'm bored. I want to go out and do something with a friend tonight but I'm absolutely shot on ideas. Does anyone have any suggestions? Nothing too expensive.... --✶♏‭ݣ 00:04, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Do the Degrassi Tour!142.132.4.26 (talk) 00:46, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Umm... I'm not much of the Degrassi type, and I don't even know what that is. Any other suggestions? --✶♏

Mostly it's just an excuse to get out and go for a stroll with a friend. Who knows what else might happen? Adventure awaits! 142.132.4.26 (talk) 02:46, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

‭ݣ 01:30, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

In and around Toronto? Depends where abouts you are, but I could list off: karaoke, center island, pacific mall (good food), umm?? 124.154.253.146 (talk) 01:59, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Great night for a stroll along Queen Street West. The sidewalks will be packed. // BL \\ (talk) 02:49, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

It's Pride Week, so there should be lots to see even if you aren't gay. Adam Bishop (talk) 12:08, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Ideas for things you can do in any city:

1. Parkour --Dweller (talk) 12:57, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
2. Fringe Theatre Festival DJ Clayworth (talk) 14:36, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
3. Jazz Festival DJ Clayworth (talk) 14:38, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
4. Cinema --Dweller (talk) 15:37, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
5. Walk in a park or open space that's not a crime hotspot --Dweller (talk) 15:37, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
6. Bingo (Do they have that in Toronto?) --Dweller (talk) 15:38, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
7. Snooker or Pool club (ditto) --Dweller (talk) 15:38, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
8. Bowling (ditto) --Dweller (talk) 15:38, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Anyone else reminded of Things to do in Denver when you're dead? "Buckwheats". --Dweller (talk) 17:06, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Well, it's no longer Thursday, but you may want to try coming downtown around Yonge-Dundas Square. There are usually some street entertainers about. Also, they do free outdoor movies at sunset (see http://www.ydsquare.ca/) on Tuesdays, and other events, too. It's a great civic space (despite some idiots on Facebook advocating dumping garbage there during the current strike. </rant>). Oh, the current strike also means there is no ferry service to the islands, so that's likely out. Another area, especially on weekends is Harbourfront. -- Flyguy649 ^talk 19:44, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Gas fittings

Are gas bottle fittings in America different to Australia's. For example, if I was to buy a nitrogen gas regulator in USA, can I use the same regulator on Australian gas bottles? Thanks for any help.

The Australian Standards are not identical for medical nitrogen and that used in the beverage industry. No doubt there are similar differences in the USA as well (as there are pressure differences between the various applications, and varying requirements for mixing with air or oxygen). The end result is probably identical in the two countries, but the threading on Australian bottles is metric, while on US bottles it is SAE (and sometimes left-hand thread). Most Australian gas suppliers will rent you the appropriate regulator, as the bottles themselves are also often rented (ie you get a filled exchange bottle, not have your own bottled refilled).- KoolerStill (talk) 10:13, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

James Sanborn's sculpture in Japan

James Sanborn reportedly has a sculpture somewhere in Japan. Does anybody know where it is? I've a feeling it might be in Hiroshima, but none of the sites I check mentioned the actual sculpture; just that he was commissioned to make it in Japan. 124.154.253.146 (talk) 06:54, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

According to this site, there's a sculpture of "Two parallel lightning bolts of assembled stone" at Kawasaki International Peace Park in Kawasaki, Japan. Irvine Contemporary (warning: .pdf) says he was awarded a grant by Kawasaki International Peace Park in 1983. Some jerk on the Internet (talk) 19:48, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Ah, sorry about that. I think I actually looked at that list, but I seem to have missed it. Thanks for pointing it out! 124.154.253.146 (talk) 04:10, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Mark Sanford emails

In the case of Mark Sanford disappearance and extramarital affair, how did the State newspaper get hold of the emails between Sanford and his lover (published here)? --Richardrj ^{talk email} 08:46, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

They probably either bribed someone with access to his e-mail or broke into his account. Even celebrities can use bad passwords or obvious security questions. Prokhorovka (talk) 09:24, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Note that doing either of those things would violate widely recognized standards of media ethics, so it's doubtful the paper went that route. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 02:51, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Were they his own e-mail account, or was he so foolish as to write them using the state's e-mail system? Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 12:00, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

They may have been sent on state computers, or even worse, using the state's own email system. There is no expectation to privacy using public computers and/or email systems. In most cases, unless covered under the narrow guise of "national security", people have the right to all official correspondance of their government. This usually extends to anything sent on government owned computers or using a government email account. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 12:26, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

There is a little bit more expectation to short-term confidentiality, though. Transparency in government does not necessarily mean that the inner dealings of every decision need to be aired as it is being made (doing so would obviously paralyze the ability to think freely). This is why there are multiple grades of classification—all the way down to "for official use only" which is hard to get in the short term but easy to get in the long term. --98.217.14.211 (talk) 17:10, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Precisely. So the question remains, from whose e-mail system did his e-mails emanate? If he actually used state or public computers, instead of a scarlet "A" he should have a big red "L" on his forehead. If it was a private account, someone's got some 'splainin' to do (besides him, obviously). Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 12:40, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Either way it is "L" quality hijinks. E-mail is insecure unless you are encrypting it. State or non-state (see Palin's Yahoo! mail problem not long ago). If I were an elected official I would not write anything down in an insecure form unless I wanted others to eventually read it (and even then, what you write at all depends on how much you trust the recipient not to leak it themselves or to accidentally let it fall in the wrong hands). (This is not a problem related to e-mail uniquely, of course.) --98.217.14.211 (talk) 17:09, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

The news reporter said the paper got the emails from an anonymous source 5 months ago, which is why they didn't reveal them at first (i.e. they were unverified and not newsworthy until their contents actually led to tracking Sanford down). So, nobody who knows is telling where they came from. My own wild speculation is that Sanford wrote them on his home computer and his wife found them and leaked them to the paper. But there is no way to know, until more information comes out. 208.70.31.206 (talk) 03:37, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

5 months ago squares with when the wife supposedly found out about the affair. Ding-ding-ding! Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 14:57, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Um, but that could just mean that she was sent the e-mails as well by the anonymous source. --98.217.14.211 (talk) 16:50, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Argentine Man Is Said to Be Source of Sanford E-Mail, says New York Times. "Last December, the executive said, Ms. Chapur was dating a young Argentine a few months after her affair with Mr. Sanford began. The man happened to see the e-mail messages being exchanged between the governor and Ms. Chapur, said the executive — who said he had direct knowledge of the situation — and hacked into her e-mail account to see the rest." "Hacked" is of course the questionable verb here—could mean anything. --98.217.14.211 (talk) 16:50, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

That's possible too. So it seems like various folks knew about this 5 months ago yet nothing came of it. In fact, the guy is still the governor. So really nothing has changed. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 16:55, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, except for the fact that his dirty laundry is on every news channel, he lost his chairmanship of an important political organization, and basically everybody is calling on him to quit his job. But other than that, no changes at all. (rolls eyes) --98.217.14.211 (talk) 19:51, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

He's still the governor, though, for now. We'll see if he joins this year's drummed-out-of-office club, which is chaired by Hot Rod Blagojevich. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 21:38, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Washing clothes while camping

How can we wash our clothes while camping? Is the washboard the best alternative? What can we do with the rest water if we are ecologically minded?--Mr.K. (talk) 11:01, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Well, it depends on the facilities on offer at the campsite where you're staying (unless you're camping in the wild, so to speak, which I would strongly advise against). Some campsites have washers and dryers available. If not, they should certainly have sinks for people to wash their dishes and clothes in (note, I'm not talking about washbasins in the bathroom). Just bring some washing powder with you and wash your clothes by hand in the sink. You can hang them out to dry near your tent on a washing line – bring a length of line and some clothes pegs for this purpose, and rig up a makeshift line when you get there. Assuming the weather is fine (and you really shouldn't be camping if it isn't), they should be nice and dry in no time. --Richardrj ^{talk email} 11:21, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Depends on what sort of camping— front country or back country. If you are in a front country campground, you can use a washboard and a tub. You can also make a washer with a five gallon bucket and a (new) toilet plunger. Drill a hole in the bucket lid large enough for the lid, put the clothes, water and soap in the bucket; put the plunger through the hole and put the lid on; use the plunger as an agitator to do the wash, then rinse and agitate. Dispose of the water by pouring down a drain or by dispersing it away from a water source. Any modern soaps are going to be environmentally friendly, but use a minimum. If back country, then you need to be familiar with Leave No Trace. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 11:43, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Richardrj are you seriously telling the OP something like "Don't camp anywhere wild, camp only at camp sites equipped with sinks, washing machines and/or drying machines ? ". Cuddlyable3 (talk) 13:00, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Pretty much, yes – albeit with tongue ever so slightly in cheek, and based on my original research of the vision of hell that is the under-amenitied campsite :) --Richardrj ^{talk email} 13:13, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

One good thing about going camping is that it reminds you of why we invented houses and indoor plumbing. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 13:18, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

If you follow the "Leave No Trace" philosophy, doing laundry would be a questionable activity. Obviously, you can't literally "leave no trace", but you can minimize your impact. It's just that "minimize your impact" is not such a catchy slogan. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 13:08, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Maybe not a full, proper laundry with soap and bleach, but if you're backpacking out in the wild, there's no reason you couldn't rinse your clothes in some running water like a brook or something. You've probably brought a piece of rope with you, so it's easy enough to set up a small clothesline between two trees for drying. APL (talk) 14:53, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

It is probaly not environmentally friendly, but there are washing detergents which supposedly work in any water (including cold seawater). I say "supposedly" because I couldn't get it to lather even in clean drinking water. Either I was using it incorrectly, or it was totally useless. Just thought I'd mention it though :-) Astronaut (talk) 16:12, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

I've washed clothes with a washboard and a washtub. A washboard makes the washing easier, and one would suffice for a number of campers, so the burden of packing it might be worthwhile. If only one or two are on the trip, and you don't want to lug a washboard, then heat some water, put detergent directly on stains, and rub the clothing against itself in the tub or bucket of warm sudsy water until stains fade and they seem clean. Swish them around a while in the hot suds, then wring out the water by hand, and rinse them in fresh water to get rid of the soap residue. Wring them dry as best you can, to reduce the chance of mildew. They can be hung on a line or on bushes to dry. Unless it is a sunny day, they may take a very long time to dry (more than a few hours). Start the washing at sunup for maximum drying time. Edison (talk) 17:20, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

All consumer soaps are now environmentally friendly, but you still don't dump them directly into a water source. I can't think of a backpacking trip where you would need to clean more than a pair of socks every now and then. Even Appalachian Trail thru-hikers get off the trail and get a motel and do some laundry. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 17:32, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

I've seen truckstop cafes, 100 miles either way from other habitation, that have showers and a coin-operated washing machine.- KoolerStill (talk) 19:32, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Some of us are too cheap to put coins in the machines and not willing to sit by the machine 45 minutes for the wash cycle and another 45 minutes for the dryer. Edison (talk) 03:12, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

If you're camping in the woods for a few days, don't wash your clothes. Bring extra sets of inner layers. If you're going to be camping for a number of weeks, still don't wash your clothes. Rinse them in water and hang them to dry. You won't be able to smell each other that much, and the smell of the woods and fire will help to cover a lot of the BO. Seriously, don't take any soap with you; it's unnecessary and even "enviro-friendly" products might not be exactly what they advertise. If you're worried about your smell as you re-enter civilization, bring one set of clothes and save them for the last day. 124.154.253.146 (talk) 04:04, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Operation Snow White

I was reading the article Operation Snow White and I find it pretty amazing that they were able to penetrate agencies like the DoJ. But, all in all exactly which government agencies did they infiltrate altogether and did they manage to get into agencies like the Department of Defense or the CIA or would they have even been able to penetrate those agencies? And do you think they would be able to do it again today, even with the security the government has put in since then and 9/11? --Blue Heron 89 (talk) 17:17, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Did you read Wikipedia's article on it? It is surprisingly well referenced and detailed; if some specific information on the Operation is not in enough detail in the article, you could seek out some of the references and read those... --Jayron32.talk.contribs 18:22, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

I am not sure why they would have attempted to break into either CIA or the DoD. 65.121.141.34 (talk) 20:05, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Information is power, and it is a commodity. Consider how many countries they are involved in, how useful it might be to know certain things about how the US agencies are planning to deal with said countries, etc. --98.217.14.211 (talk) 15:25, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Shirt sizing

This sizing chart uses what I guess is the circumference at the shirt's chest, while this chart uses simply the chest width. I want to buy a shirt of the brand of the first chart, but I want to compare the sizes to a shirt that I own, from the second website. How would these be compared? Thanks. —Akrabbim^talk 17:25, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Well, the obvious answer is that the shirt circumference is twice the width of the shirt in the second list (which uses an unusual method of sizing). However, I doubt it is that simple. I suggest you pay more attention to the "small", "medium", "large", "XL", etc sizing on both charts. Astronaut (talk) 17:35, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

I usually wear a men's M, but from different suppliers that size often varies, so I was trying to see what I could tell from the numbers. —Akrabbim^talk 18:05, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Indeed. Even companies that use a numerical sizing system (ostensibly the chest circumference in inches, for example) often vary from one another. A 34 from one company may "run" differently than a 34 from another company; so you really need to look at the sizes as a general guide and get to know which companies have sizes that work for you. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 18:20, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

First question to ask, obviously, is whether the shops in your area measure in centimetres (metric system) or inches (Imperial or U.S. customary system). —— Shakescene (talk) 22:41, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Measuring the width of the shirt is very unusual, I've never seen that before. Given such an unusual measurement, I wouldn't be too trusting of it. It's probably best just to guess based on the S, M, L guidelines, even though they aren't very precise. --Tango (talk) 00:05, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

What's most usual in the U.S. is offering a choice of neck sizes (e.g. 15 1/2 inches) and (for long-sleeved shirts) sleeve lengths. —— Shakescene (talk) 07:13, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Likewise in the UK (although I think we call it "collar size"). A chest size in addition to the collar size isn't unheard of, though. It would certainly be measured if you went to a tailor for a made to measure or bespoke suit. --Tango (talk) 02:18, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

You may also be interested in the article Vanity sizing. Certainly I'm used to buying in the Small/Medium/Large range for t-shirts/polo-shirts but then for dress-shirts/suit-shirts I would always expect to buy it by neck-size. ny156uk (talk) 09:23, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Using a measuring tape and the chart by the company you intend to buy from is likely to yield better results than comparing charts by different companies. If you are shopping for a shirt, then any T-shirt measurements are close to irrelevant. Even polo shirts are cut significantly differently. There was a similar post on clothes sizes here a couple of weeks back (June 11 "Body proportions" in the Archives). US standard clothing size may help. Remember that the measurements of the shirt include certain allowances for fit and comfort as compared to the measurements of your body, you might end up doubling or reducing those if you compare actual clothing measurements vs. body measurement charts. Getting what is basically a more or less rectangular piece of cloth to fit the various curves and shapes of the human body is an art onto itself. 71.236.26.74 (talk) 05:36, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Trucker radio "code"

In a lot of films you see truckers who witness say, the main character doing some wild stunt, picking up radios and saying stuff like "we got an 815 on Interstate 95". I've never seen a trucker do anything like that in real life. Is there someplace I could read futehr about it, or could you explain it? --92.251.142.187 (talk) 17:42, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

You might start with Ten-code (and other codes linked therein) and CB slang. -- Coneslayer (talk) 17:47, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Ah right thanks that's very interesting92.251.142.187 (talk) 17:49, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Every trucker had a CB in the late 1970's and 1980's and many car drivers did as well, to get help in an emergency or to get spotting reports on cops with radar guns: "Comb your hair and smile, because there's a Bear taking pictures at the 219 marker." It was made popular by the song "Convoy" and the 1978 movie Convoy (film). It was a free call to let those at home know you would arrive shortly. Range was a few miles typically with legal equipment. 20 miles from hill to hill was achievable with 5 watts. Edison (talk) 19:36, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

My grandparents used CBs extensively With their farming operation and they did not have much trouble over a 25 mile range. They did have a windmill that was acting as a radio mast though, which trucks would not have so that probably improved range significantly. 65.121.141.34 (talk) 19:53, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

CB's are still used. It's just they don't get the kind of publicity they used to when the speed limit was made artificially too low and this dodge-the-bears game was all the rage. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 14:55, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

That's a big 10-4. Edison (talk) 20:12, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

I know that many car clubs still use them to keep in touch during rides, whether they be on or off road. Dismas|^(talk) 21:24, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Our car club (Mini Owners of Texas) - and most others I've driven with use FRS/GMRS radios. Theoretically, they have less range than CB - but the sound quality is much clearer and they not so fiddly to use - you don't have to mount it in the car or have a huge antenna. We find that, in practice, they are much better than CB for car-to-car use. However, you aren't supposed to use the GMRS channels without a license, which limits you to the half dozen FRS channels...yeah...right. Using the 'Ten code' is considered silly. It probably originated as a way to give messages clearly over the noisy old CB system...GMRS is clearer than a cellphone - you don't need codes and such. SteveBaker (talk) 02:40, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Iowa small claims court

What is the minimum $ amount that one can sue someone for in small claims court of Iowa?

The "Iowa Court Rules" has small claims forms to fill out in Chapter 3. The form on Chapter 3 page 9 lets you fill in the blank for the value of the property being demanded, which may not exceed US$5,000. It does not list a minimum. Tempshill (talk) 22:46, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

(e/c) :This site [6] contains guidance for people wishing to take action in the Iowa Small Claims Court without using a legal representative, and may be a good place for you to find more information. It states that the maximum sum one can claim is $5000, but I cannot find a minimum claim listed there. Please note that we cannot give legal advice here. If you need information that you cannot find on third-party sites such as the one I've linked above, your best option is to seek advice from the court itself or from a qualified legal adviser. Karenjc 22:54, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

June 27

New York Times cover price

What is the history of the price of the NY Times? How much did it cost when first published? In 1960? In 1990?

Interesting. I assume you're interested in the weekday price and not the extra-large Sunday price; and also that you're less interested in price variations outside of New York, which at various times has been defined as being "within 50 miles of the city"[7], within 75 miles[8], and probably other definitions over time. I haven't found a nice graph of the price after Googling a bit. Our article The New York Times says it was 1 cent per copy at its debut in 1851, when it was called the "New-York Daily Times". I searched on the NY Times website for "new york times" newsstand price and on Google similarly and found the following; note there are plenty of gaps.

• 1851: Price was 1 cent
• 1883: Price was 2 cents
• 1970: Raised from ? to 15 cents
• 1974: changed from 15 cents to 20 cents

Interestingly, this abstract says this increase was "subject to favorable rulings by the Cost of Living Council."

• 1979: changed from ? to 25 cents
• 1982: changed from 25 cents to 30 cents
• 1991: changed from 30 cents to 35 cents
• 1994: changed from 50 cents to 60 cents
• 1999: changed from 60 cents to 75 cents
• 2002: changed from 75 cents to 1 dollar
• 2007: changed from $1.00 to $1.25
• 2008: changed from $1.25 to $1.50

A graph of this, were the data to be completed, would be a nice addition to the NYT article. (And would be even more interesting if graphed against its rivals. The Post dropped its price at least once in recent times.) If you had an hour at your local library with all the NY Times articles microfiched, you could rather quickly use sampling to find out the years that price changes occurred, or just look up the years you were interested in. Tempshill (talk) 01:15, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

I saw a book at the bookstore today that had all the New York Times front pages...now of course I can't find it again. But I assume the prices are on every front page. Adam Bishop (talk) 02:30, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Aha, here it is. Adam Bishop (talk) 03:33, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

A semilog plot woud be linear if the price increased exponentially. Edison (talk) 03:08, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

US laws regarding copyright status of current news

In US copyright law, what does it say about news article? In the PRC copyright law, 'current news' is not protectable, and 'current news' is defined as 'simple statement of the fact', which is still vague. I want to know how does the US deal with news.—Ben.MQ (talk) 03:12, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Interesting. Could you find sources for this and add a treatment of it to the copyright section of the Intellectual property in the People's Republic of China article? It would be an interesting improvement.

Anyway, see United States copyright law for a lot of information (not comprehensive). There are some types of writing that are not copyrightable in the US. The concept of "news" is not one of these types; it is treated no differently from other types of writing. One thing that is treated differently is an expression of an idea that can't reasonably be expressed in any other way. The short sentence "Michael Jackson has died" is therefore not protected. A news article on the death of Michael Jackson, though, is copyrighted. By the way, under the Berne Convention, countries are supposed to respect works that are copyrighted in other countries, so, assuming you're correct about the copyrightability of news in the PRC, I wonder how Berne is reconciled with ignoring the copyrighted status of news stories written by (and hence automatically copyrighted by) people in other countries. Tempshill (talk) 04:13, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Note that simple statements of fact are not copyrightable in general in the US. It doesn't matter whether they are news. "Water is constituted of oxygen and hydrogen." "Michael Jackson is dead." Both would be treated similarly (assuming they are true—if they are purely fictional, then creativity comes into it). (As an aside, simple statements of fact can be patentable. But not copyrightable.) --98.217.14.211 (talk) 12:10, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Facts are not copyrightable. Quoting the entirety of a speech reported in the news, for example, has been held not to be a breach of copyright. News reporting is a fair dealing in Australia, and if I remember correctly, is correspondingly a fair use in the United States.

Nonetheless, the particular expression of a news story (other than any factual quotations) is copyrightable. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 11:22, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Purpose of asking for credit card expiration date

When you buy something online with a credit card, what is the purpose of asking for the expiration date? Does it just purely serve as a security challenge question, like a PIN number? Does / can the business actually care about the date? Can they, for example, say that they won't accept credit cards that expire within 1 month? Or can they give preferential treatment to people with later expiration dates? --76.91.63.71 (talk) 04:32, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

I don't think it answers the ultimate question, but when I've taken credit card charges in person or over the telephone at work, I've had to give the bank four things (presuming the bank already has the merchant account number and information): name on the card, amount of the transaction, account number, and expiration date. For the bank, I'm sure it serves several purposes, including telling them whether the account is current and verifying that a digit hasn't been missed somewhere (thus charging the wrong account). Sometimes they also ask for the 3-digit security code on the card that's separate from the account number. —— Shakescene (talk) 10:23, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

They don't want to take a card that has already expired. Although you may have a new card, it is possible that you have not, therefore don't have a current account. And/or the expired card may be in the hands of an unauthorised person, if you did not follow the directions and cut it in half when the new one arrived. The separate 3-digit check number is sometimes asked for as proof that you have the card in your hand; the other details you might have from finding someone's credit card bill (or transaction receipt) in the garbage. - KoolerStill (talk) 11:04, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Perhaps because when the card expires you get sent a new card with the same card number and a new expiry date. The expiry date is asked in case you have simply found an old card in the trash. Or perhaps it lets the credit card limit their liability if they close your account and you don't return the card. Astronaut (talk) 11:24, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

It is far simpler than all this. If the expiry date is not quoted how will the equipment know that the card is currently valid? All the other info identifies the user, not the card.86.209.157.37 (talk) 14:42, 27 June 2009 (UTC)DT

You know the card is valid when the card company tells you it is. Knowing the date doesn't tell you it is valid at all—one can easily lie about the date, or the card number, or any part of it. Only the fact that all of that information is checked against the credit card company tells you it is valid. --98.217.14.211 (talk) 15:21, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Which is why the expiry date is needed, as part of the chain of proof that the cardowner is holding the card. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 15:23, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

But why is that different than the card number itself? I don't see how that really changes anything. Even the CVC doesn't really prove you have the card itself in front of you. --98.217.14.211 (talk) 19:49, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

A little searching online brings up this (http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/columns/executive_tech/article.php/3607996) is an interesting article about expiry-dates and relevant to this question. ny156uk (talk) 20:52, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

It is also a security measure. The more information they check, the less chance for fraud. It is easy to fake a seemingly valid credit card number. My credit cards have an additional security number on them also. I think they check the validity of the numbers online while speaking to you. 78.147.242.96 (talk) 11:45, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Again, this doesn't make much sense. The only way they know if it is real is if they check it against a database; if they do that, then it doesn't matter how many extra numbers there are. Having the card physically does not at all guarantee that the transaction is valid (could easily be stolen). I see no real security benefit to having expiration numbers. (CVC would provide security if it was never recorded. That's a big "if", of course, but expiration date is often recorded along with the number.) --98.217.14.211 (talk) 21:17, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Just think of it as four extra digits of the card number, and the CVC is another three digits. There are a million ways to get each of these bits of information, but the essence is that if you have them, you can charge to the card. One benefit of the expiry date is that it exists outside of the checksum digit and thus can't be calculated in advance. This just presents one more barrier to mass attacks to discover card numbers. Like you say though, in the end it comes down to whether or not the information matches a database. The goal is to make that as difficult as possible for people not actually holding the information. (Plus it forces the clerk to actually look at the card rather than just swiping it) Franamax (talk) 21:32, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

If I were trying to justify the expiration date, I would probably say, rather, that it was more than just adding four more digits (two of which are within a pretty guess-able range), but instead, the fact that card records expired in a few years would prevent long accumulation of still-valid transactions over a period of time. It puts a cap on how long credit card data in anyone's possession is actually useful. (For the same reason, it's kind of a pain in the neck when you need to change over a lot of recurring payments.) The idea that you'd use it to avoid bruteforcing credit card numbers seems unconvincing to me (you still need a matching name, no?). --98.217.14.211 (talk) 01:11, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Dunwoody Coffin

Does anyone know of a sheet metal toolbox called a Dunwoody (Dunnwoody) Coffin?

It was made as a graduation requirement for the sheet metal course at the Dunwoody Vocational School in Mpls, MN during the 60's and 70's I believe. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cullulloo (talk • contribs) 22:02, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

We have a page for the school Dunwoody College of Technology. Maybe you could contact someone there. You should state what specifically your question about that box is. Your term didn't get any ghits, so maybe it's a bit off. 71.236.26.74 (talk) 04:51, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

That's going to be tough to find anything out about - if they stopped doing it in the 1970's - that was a long time before the Internet was around - so there is unlikely to be much about it on the net. It's also a very narrow topic - so it's unlikely that books have been written on the subject - it's hardly newsworthy - so we're not going to find it in newspaper archives...that doesn't leave many places to search! Your best chance (as '71 says) is to contact the college and hope that someone who worked in the metal shop in the 1970's is still around to talk about it. Does the school perhaps maintain a list of alumni - or have an alumni association? If so, then perhaps you could find the email address of people who graduated from that course over those years and ask them directly? SteveBaker (talk) 13:32, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Swiping: Credit vs Debit

I live in Canada so I don't know if this is a common phenomenon in other countries, but when I make a purchase at a store with my credit card, say Visa, the cashier takes the card from me and swipes it him or herself. On the other hand, when purchasing with my debit card, he/she asks me to swipe the card myself. Why is that? Acceptable (talk) 22:02, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

I don't see that phenomenon in the US - I swipe the card, and then about 25% of the time the cashier asks me whether it's a credit or debit card. Tempshill (talk) 22:14, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

I see it from time to time, and it seems to depend on the cashier personally. Mostly I swipe it myself, but some shop attendants get frustrated by customers putting the card in the wrong way round, so to forestall that they take the card off them, and do it themselves. I know one particular person who always does this with me, but other attendants at the same shop rarely or never do it. Whether it's a debit or credit card doesn't come into it, because these days it's often impossible to tell just from the card. -- JackofOz (talk) 22:24, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

I see it all the time, in a number of different stores (SW Ontario). I've even seen a cashier reach to give me my card, then withdraw it again until the electronic transaction was completed. I haven't asked, but I've always assumed it was something to do with the perceived greater chance of theft of credit cards (no PIN required, just a signature). The cashier might want to wait for confirmation before giving you back a potentially stolen card. Matt Deres (talk) 03:24, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

It also depends on the particular store's swiping setup. If the swipe slot is on the till out of the customer's reach, the cashier will do it. But if it's on the pinpad, close to the customer and hard for the cashier to reach, the customer will do it. If it's easily accessible to either, I guess that's when you get variation.

Similarly, if credit and debit are swiped through different slots, as they are at the store where I work, that's why you might see a difference between when you pay with one or the other. At my store, I swipe credit cards on the till, but let the customer swipe their own debit cards on the pinpad.

(I used to do both, through the machine's "home base" instead of the pinpad, but we got a new system last week that split the credit and debit into different slots, and a new pinpad that I'm having the devil of a time with, so I've decided just to let the customers do their own debit swiping. It usually works better that way.) Cherry Red Toenails (talk) 03:30, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

It might also depend on the amounts of money involved and the store's experience with stolen/expired cards. If they are holding the credit card, and it comes through as bad, they are supposed to retain and destroy it. If it just comes through as insufficient credit, they have the card as "hostage" while the customer finds another card or digs up cash. - KoolerStill (talk) 09:19, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

I believe that with Chip and Pin in the UK the cashier is specifically supposed not to touch the card, and there are "extra security requirements" (no idea what) if they do. Of course, that doesn't necessarily happen in practice and plenty of customers still hand their cards over as we used to do before chip&pin. 93.97.184.230 (talk) 09:19, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

I was never told about any "extra security requirements" when I used to work in a shop. Rather, I was told never to take the card at all - just point to the card machine and tell them to put it in. Of course, this is still UK so not entirely relevant to the OP's question. Vimescarrot (talk) 18:17, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Related to the thread just above, if you use a credit card, the clerk is supposed to check the hologram on the card to be sure it changes colour, check the expiration date, make sure the card is signed on the back, and check your signature on the slip to be sure it even remotely resembles the signature on the card. The merchant agreement with the card processor actually says that's supposed to happen and some clerks even do it. Debit cards are different, if you hold the "secret" PIN number, you're assumed to be the authorised user. Check for security cameras pointed at the debit terminal and raise hell if you see one. BC Liquor has just changed over to a new system where they don't touch the credit card, as part of the switch to Chip'n'PIN. It also means that if my magstripe doesn't scan, they won't accept the card, i.e. they will no longer punch in the transaction manually. This is a lesson that if you accidentally demagnetise the card, you can no longer get beer. :) Franamax (talk) 21:45, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Also, an anecdote: I was in airport duty-free once, used a Visa card. I'd "lost" the card, requested a new one, then found the old one and had it in my bag also, and inadvertently used it. The clerk swiped it and handed it back, then suddenly came up with a reason to ask for it back to "check something". She called another clerk over to "figure out the problem" and we all stood there for awhile while she carefully muttered to the other guy things about "it says hold the customer...shouldn't we call security..." I eventually figured it out, found my new card and asked for scissors to chop the old one. The lesson? At least some CC terminals are set up to deliver messages about "destroy card" and "fraud - hold for police". I've never actually handled card transactions, but that experience is pretty good evidence for the practice. Again, the difference with debit cards is that as long as the funds are in the account, go ahead and take the funds, gabba-gabba-hey, it's all good. Franamax (talk) 21:57, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

For credit card purchases, it used to be the case that the checkout person held on to your card until you'd signed the slip so that they could check that the signature matched...but I've never seen that done in the last 10 years at least. There's a web site out there somewhere where someone tried writing increasingly bizarre things on the credit slip and having it accepted...starting with signing "Mickey Mouse" - moving on to simplifying his signature to one long horizontal line - to drawing a picture of a flower, a house, a car, etc - eventually writing "I stole this card and I'm getting away with it!" in tiny letters where the signature should be. The checkout staff never queried it - and the credit card company paid out just the same. So why bother with the signature? It has absolutely no function anymore.

Even more annoying: One of the best security features they ever added was the simplest - put the person's photo on the card. My VISA card has that - but the checkout staff never even look at it - even in stores like Home Depot where you swipe your card, enter your pin and the terminal says "HOLD CARD UP FOR CASHIER TO INSPECT" (or something like that) - it's all completely ignored! This is such a simple technique - and it would eliminate almost all fraud at almost zero cost. Grrrr! SteveBaker (talk) 13:25, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Bacnotan

How can I get more information about history of Bacnotan, La Union, Philippines from year 1850 and on. I am looking for gobernadorcillo Named Angel Lopez back in 1850 and on. Thank you —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.41.252.48 (talk) 22:08, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Have you read our article Bacnotan, La Union? Also, have you Googled bacnotan "angel lopez"? The latter brings up nine hits, not many at all, but they seem relevant. Tempshill (talk) 22:17, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Should Shirts sleeves stick out?

When wearing a black Tuxedo, should the white shirt underneath stick out at the cuffs? Acceptable (talk) 23:49, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

If you're wearing a proper dress shirt, then yes, your doubled cuffs and cufflinks should be visible. AlexTiefling (talk) 23:52, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

For the benefit of American readers (and by the use of the word "Tuxedo", I'm guessing the OP is American, although the term is becoming quite common in the UK these days), "dress shirt" in this context doesn't mean any shirt with a collar and buttons, it means a specific type of formal shirt with doubled cuffs and a pleated front that is worn with Black Tie. (There is some variation, but that's the most common. In the UK, anyway.) --Tango (talk) 01:39, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Our Tuxedo article has pictures. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.41.110.200 (talk) 02:40, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Called a dinner jacket in Britain. 78.147.242.96 (talk) 11:39, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

I was always taught that cufflinks should not be showing when wearing a suit-jacket. "You're not a pirate." was the phrase. ny156uk (talk) 11:44, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

We're not talking about a suit-jacket, we're talking about a dinner jacket. Algebraist 12:08, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Even so, you don't want the whole of the cuff showing - just a bit (perhaps a enough to let people glimpse your expensive cuff-links). See the images on the Black tie article for a guideline. Astronaut (talk) 12:12, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Agreed. The cuffs on my dress shirt go up several inches, I would only have about one inch showing beneath my jacket. --Tango (talk) 17:52, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

It depends, of course, how you're standing. When your hands are by your sides, you should only be able to see a small amount (less than an inch) of cuff. When you reach out your hand, for example, to shake hands, more cuff, and your cufflinks should become visible, but not the whole cuff. Steewi (talk) 01:22, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

June 28

How long are school transcripts in the U.S. normally kept?

A recent news story about someone who altered high school grades got me to thinking. How long are transcripts kept for high school (10-12th or 9-12th grade) in the U.S.? What about lower? Would this person, if she just wanted to enhance her daughter's self esteem, have been able to change them 10 years later? Would it matter? Would grades from 25 years atgo (before computerization) still be kept for high school? For lower grades?

For high school, part of me says work history quickly surpasses those in improtance after 5-10 years, if a person is looking for work, but what about college? Would they want to know more than just that a person graduated if they go back to school after, say, 20 years? Would a school have a reason to even keep a person's transcripts from 10 years ago more more, for lower grades?

Thanks.209.244.30.221 (talk) 00:46, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

This doesn't answer your question, but as an aside, I'd opine that work history surpasses high school grade importance after < 1 year. Tempshill (talk) 02:19, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Permanent record (the article isn't very helpful either.) 75.41.110.200 (talk) 02:37, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

At my high school in Pennsylvania, USA, the guidance office had a closet full of boxes labeled with the year of graduation. Each box has one set of class records and there easily could have been 20 boxes, so 20 years of back records. Of course, they also could have kept older records archived elsewhere, but after 20 years, chances are that you either: 1.) Went to college, making your high school performance moot, 2.) Already have a job and no longer need to prove your academic record, or 3.) will never be asked about high school again, or just prove graduation or a GED. While computerized grades are kept at my school, they are purged after graduation and the paper documents are the only record. Freedomlinux (talk) 14:54, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

I think they're kept for several decades, sometimes for 30 or 40 years. I think I was able to transmit a transcript from my New England prep school to a college 25 or 30 years after graduation, and the State of Rhode Island takes over and maintains the records of disbanded schools for 30 or 40 years. —— Shakescene (talk) 19:39, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

I used to work for a company that computerized such information. In physical form I was told that they're kept, at least in Quebec, for 50 years. Rachmaninov Khan (talk) 02:32, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

I saw one which was over 100 years old, but it was in someone's basement and no longer stored by the school. I expect that they are often kept for decades, since someone might have a late decision to start college and need a high school transcript. Edison (talk) 03:32, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Nudism South Asia

Is there an organization where it promotes nudism in India and Sri Lanka? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.64.54.119 (talk) 02:28, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Probably not what you're looking for, but you may be interested in Digambar. Matt Deres (talk) 03:26, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

I live in India, and I've heard of no such thing. The culture here is such that even if anyone thinks about bringing such a club he would probably be beaten up by a mob... In Bangalore people have attacked women in discos and clubs saying it degrades Indian culture. There is still a lot of hot debate over Gay marriage. So judging by the current state of affairs, i am quite sure none will exist. Not for the near future. Sri Lanka is also pretty much the same, I expect, considering the large population of Tamils (from India) living there, and the small impact of the West in the island nation, though I've never been there.Rkr1991 (talk) 13:41, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

This site has some tips and links. The International Naturist Federation has a couple of contacts for Asia. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 22:38, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

masturbating

I heard on the internet, mainly message boards and forums, that if a guys holds off from masturbating for a week his orgasm will be greater when he finally does it. It the same true for females? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.43.91.128 (talk) 09:12, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

I suggest our page on the subject might have the answers you seek.

It does not. That's like pointing someone at the Television article when they ask what actor played a robot in the 33 episode of doctor who

Of course that would be silly. If someone asked that question we would be obligated to tell them that "33" is a Battlestar Galactica episode, not a Doctor Who episode. APL (talk) 13:24, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Note to others, I'd be inclined to suggest this isn't asking for medical advice, thoughts? Prokhorovka (talk) 09:20, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Er, What's the medical condition being referred to??!! 86.4.190.83 (talk) 12:42, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

There's no media question, it's a simple query for factual information. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.43.90.6 (talk) 13:10, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

The article linked to does contain the information at the top of 'Techniques'. Prokhorovka (talk) 16:13, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Could you please quote for me, because I've looked and can't find it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.43.90.6 (talk) 18:01, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

It is true that females can have heard the same as the OP heard on the Internet. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 22:02, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

huh? Could someone please just tell me? I've looked through the masturbation article but I can't find this information. I don't want to wait a whole week just to find waiting makes no difference, I want to know there's gonna be good at the end of waiting, otherwise I won't bother. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.43.90.6 (talk) 23:20, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

It would, of course depend on the meaning of greater. If you're talking about volume of ejaculate, it's probably going to be more than if you've been masturbating multiple times in the last few days. The male turn-around for reproducing ejaculate varies, but is generally short. If you're talking about the feeling of orgasm, then it's kind of subjective. It's likely that you will feel more release, because you're getting the thing that you've been waiting a week for, but it isn't necessarily guaranteed to be better. Other factors need to be taken into account, such as appropriately good stimulation, your health, and your psychological health, among other things. There is something to be said for lessened sensitivity if you overdo masturbation over a long period - you might be let down by the actuality of sex itself. I can't comment on women - it's not my area. Steewi (talk) 01:30, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

See The Contest for one version of the possible result of the project, on Seinfeld. Can you be "Master of Your Own Domain?" Edison (talk) 03:30, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

ugh none of this is helpful. Directions to articles that don't contain the info, accusations of media advice, a joke thrown in and User:Steewis "can't comment on women - it's not my area." Did any of you even READ the question, dear god. I'm guessing this is summer time shit. The Ref Desk used to be good, used to give really well written helpful answers from people who knew what they were talking about. Now every question I ask the Desks seem only a shadow of their former selves.

To phrase the question as simply as possible; if I wait a week will my orgasm be better y/n. I am a girl. I'm not interested in why a guy might have a bigger orgasm if he waits for a week, I just want to know if waiting will have the same effect on me, ie a better, more powerful orgasm. Currently I don't even know if I'm having orgasms and I want to try everything, but I'm also don't want to / can't stop masturbating for a whole week if there's no point.

I'm sorry for the rant, I'm just a little frustrated right now. But thank you to everyone whos replied so far. I just want an answer ;_;

I'm sorry that I have no concrete answer for you. I do have a suggestion for you though. Why not try it? Things like orgasms and stimulation can vary from person to person. So, why not find out how your body/mind reacts? Afterall, this isn't something that you need for a deadline, so why not experiment on yourself? If you can't stop the activity for a week, then it might be time to look at your priorities. Dismas|^(talk) 05:29, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Remind me, how much did you pay for your subscription to the Wikipedia Reference Desk? --Tango (talk) 05:55, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Just cause it's free it shouldn't strive to provide the best quality possible? Well, better tell those admins to kick back and relax, let the page blankers and vandals take over, because hey, it's free no one has the right to complain. Damn, this is not what I wanted. Look, I'm sorry for being rude, and I apologize for that. I'm just used to getting brilliant answers from the Ref Desk, and lately I've noticed a slight drop in that quality. And I'm tired, lack of sleep etc etc and having to almost fight to get a good answer made me a little bad mood. You guys provide a fantastic service, and it's wrong of me to be angry. I am very sorry —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.43.91.128 (talk) 06:10, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Orgasm control, Human sexual response cycle, Expanded orgasm and Orgasm#Female Orgasm may interest you. The longest period discussed is ard. 20 hrs. AFAIK.71.236.26.74 (talk) 08:47, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Ducks in Scotland

A neighbour has two male ducks in her garden, they are very decorative, apparently no trouble beyond having to be put into their 'house' each night. I too would like to keep ducks, has anyone experience of the beasts and what are the upsides and downsides of duck keeping please?--Artjo (talk) 10:18, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

A number of sources for you: [9][10][11] Rockpocket 19:30, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Technically, ducks are birds, not beasts (except for the ugly ones). OK, the original poster mentions a garden. Is there a pond in that garden also? Ducks are known to like water. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 05:56, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Thanks Rockpoket, great stuff.--Artjo (talk) 06:25, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

I took a look at the articles Rockpocket linked to, and they were all quite good. They all mention that ducks can be messy. From personal experience, I would suggest that the potential for messiness cannot be overstated. My family rescued a clutch of mallard ducklings whose mother had been hit by a car one summer. They seem in capable of eating without tipping food trays into their drinking water, mixing it all up, and then tipping over the water bowl, too. If they can't tip it over, they just walk through it. Every day we had to clean up after the trails of trampled food and duck poop they'd tracked all over the yard. In the heat of the summer, the smell was, if you'll pardon the pun, foul.

That was a dozen and not a pair, though, so ymmv, and except for the mess, they were wonderful animals. Docile, friendly -- not quite affectionate or loyal, but close. As they got old enough to where they were starting to fly, we would pick them up and toss them a few feet in the air, and they'd circle around the yard and come right back to where we were standing, and they would wait wait at the end of the driveway for the school bus to come in the afternoons, once they figured out the pattern. No experience with domesticated ducks, but as long as you're prepared for the mess, there are a lot of animals you could do worse to keep Some jerk on the Internet (talk) 19:50, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

I know where you can get some great accommodation for them, provided you're not on expenses ... Karenjc 20:35, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Cutting your own hair with electric clippers

I'd prefer a style like what is called a High and tight, where the hair is longer on top than at the sides. Is it easy to do this on your own head, and still have it look neat? Or is just having it the same length all over the only feasible style for self-cutting? 78.147.242.96 (talk) 11:59, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

I've sees some pretty silly looking clipper work on guys who cut their own hair. Where their visibility is poor, in the back, they may have angled the clipper such that there are streaks where they have unintentionally removed the hair down to the skin. Edison (talk) 12:55, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

If you don't want to pay for the cut, suggest you find someone else who also has a hairstyle that needs clippers and come to a mutually beneficial arrangement - you do their cut, they do yours. Exxolon (talk) 13:14, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

I think it was Forrest Gump (in the book, not the movie) who advised never to cut your own hair. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 19:53, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

The old saw was that if there are two barbers in a barbershop, you should pick the one with the worse haircut (who did a better job on the other barber). —— Shakescene (talk) 19:58, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Mathematical Psychology and Quantitative Psychology: Difference?

What is the difference in curriculum of mathpsy and quantpsy? Are the terms inter-changeable? I have a B.A. in International Affairs and I want to pursue a career as a Research Methodologist in a think tank. If mathpsy and quantpsy are different, then in which subject should I do my doctoral studies to become a Research Methodologist? Do I need to have prior competence in any computer knowledge? Ultraluna —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ultraluna (talk • contribs) 18:03, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

How can this possibly help the café?

A café in Helsinki, near the Hietaniemi beach, sells coffee for 2 € per cup, and additional cups for -0.05 € per cup. Yes, that's right, less than zero. If the same customer wants to have more coffee, the café pays him/her 5 cents per cup. How can this possibly help the café? They're giving the customer their own time, and their own coffee, and paying him/her for it. If the customer drinks more than 41 cups then he/she will actually start to earn money by drinking coffee. What could be the reason for this, because surely the café wants to avoid loss? JIP | Talk 18:06, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

They are probably hoping that people will buy a slice of cake or something to go with their extra coffees. It's called a loss leader. --Tango (talk) 18:15, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

I suspect that Tango is correct but what is the cost of coffee in other places. If the cost in another cafe is 1 € and no charge or .05 € for refills the the first cafe is hoping you won't figure out that there is a need to drink 20 cups before you have reduced your cost to equal the second cafe. Enter CambridgeBayWeather, waits for audience applause, not a sausage 18:35, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Good advertising as well - and they'll still make money per person, and get more persons. Good idea actually, because people think they'll benefit from it more than they will actually. - Jarry1250 ^{[ humourous – discuss ]} 19:14, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Starbucks likes having customers inside, for as long as they want to stay, even though 80% of their business is take-out. Their founder told Fortune magazine that they've found it's better for attracting that take-out business to have a place that looks full and lively, so they encourage their customers to stay, even if they spend half a day their using their laptop computers for schoolwork or job-seeking [despite the extra overhead for labour, cleaning, heat, floorspace, furniture, etc.] —— Shakescene (talk) 19:50, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

The motivation for the negative pricing may be the same as at 24-hour filling stations here where for a small fixed subscription customers are encouraged to have unlimited cupfuls of coffee. The marketing aim is to encourage professional driver groups such as taxis, truckers, etc. to meet regularly at the station. I speculate that the Helsinki coffee shop is willing to pay for the advantage it sees in brewing a continual flow of coffee. At Coffee it says "Purists do not feel that ... repeated boiling is conducive to achieving the best-flavoured coffee.". Their way ensures that new customers will receive coffee that is freshly brewed. Disclaimer: I don't drink coffee, don't like the stuff, and therefore don't know what I am talking about. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 22:16, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Pay toilets? Clarityfiend (talk) 20:39, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Illegal in California for many years now, due to good work by March Fong Eu. PhGustaf (talk) 20:46, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Eh? What is illegal in California, loss leading or pay toilets? And how is that relevant anyway, since the cafe in question is in Finland? Rockpocket 21:02, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Since we're discussing irrelevancies, why don't Americans refer to "pay bathrooms" or "public bathrooms"? -- JackofOz (talk) 21:10, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

• In Europe if you have to pay, you often pay an attendant when you enter the room; perhaps Jack has that model in mind. But in North America when pay toilets were common, the usual system was a coin-operated lock on the stall door leading to the individual toilet. Hence "pay toilet" was correct, "toilet" having its usual North American meaning referring to the fixture. One public men's room (or men's "bathroom") might contain several pay toilets (and, typically, a similar number of free urinals: one of the little advantages of being male). --Anonymous, 04:34 UTC, June 29, 2009.

In North American homes (with the odd exception), they're bathrooms; everywhere else, they're toilets. Clarityfiend (talk) 22:10, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

• Disagree. "Toilet" in North American English never means the room. --Anon, 04:35 UTC, June 29.

Merriam-Webster and our own article beg to differ. Clarityfiend (talk) 06:47, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Okay, never say never. Practically never, then. --Anon, 09:19 UTC, June 29.

Jack seems to have a real problem with the NA term "bathroom" as a ridiculous euphemism. Jack, FYI, to an American ear, the word loo sounds like unbearable baby-talk, trying to be extremely precious and effeminate. Take that, Aussie! Tempshill (talk) 22:42, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

The terms are pretty much all euphemisms. Technically, the bathroom is the room that has a bathtub in it. That's usually now referred to as a "three-piece bathroom", and a two-piece has just a sink and toilet. Personally, my goal is to produce a one-piece, but that's beside the point. :) Shithouse is a proper term to describe the use of the facility. Another good one is water closet (which inexplicably redirects to flush toilet without explaining about the footpads and the hole). In many parts of Europe, when you enter the "loo", you are confronted with two raised footpads, a hole in the floor, and a chain you pull to release water into the closet. It can be a bit of a culture shock, that's for sure. Lord knows how Japanese people used to talking toilets cope... Franamax (talk) 23:27, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

"Toilet" is also a euphemism, of course. Japanese people probably cope fine since squat toilets used to be the standard in Japan and I think there are a lot of them still around. -- BenRG (talk) 16:28, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

I promise I'll never mention it again. -- JackofOz (talk) 08:04, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

I'm with Tango on this one, it's a loss-leader, or at least a breakeven deal to get butts in the seats. There are many places to go in Helsinki (man I love that city!) and one of the decision points is where the other people are going. Doing a deal like this will tend to ensure that your cafe is full all the time, and sooner or later people will want a slice of pie. (And I never saw a pay-toilet in Finland) Franamax (talk) 22:17, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Minus 5 eurocents is definitely a loss, there is no way the cost of a cup is negative! They probably make a profit overall unless you drink an enormous amount of coffee, but they obviously make a loss on any but the first cup. I guess it isn't really a way to get butts in seats but to keep butts there. As long as people are in the café, there is a chance of them buying something else. --Tango (talk) 01:29, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

In addition to the observations above that customers who stick around for a long time are more likely to buy a scone or biscuit, I'd assert this scheme is so unheard-of that lots of their customers must repeat the story to their friends, making this a brilliant marketing ploy. For example, all of us Reference Desk visitors are now going to look for this place next time we're in Helsinki. Tempshill (talk) 02:53, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Just my 5c - if someone drinks 41 cups of coffee, they will probably die from caffeine poisoning. I think it's a brilliant idea, given that a cup of coffee costs the restaurant a few cents anyway. Sandman30s (talk) 13:34, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

If it is a franchise, they might get some kind of bonus for the store that sells the most coffee too. 65.121.141.34 (talk) 14:48, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Keeping cool

Working in a big metal box with no openable windows, are there any ways to keep cool? Vimescarrot (talk) 19:04, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Can you get any fans? Leave the doors open? Wear baggy clothes. Drink plenty of water (get a fridge or cool box full or ice to keep the water cold). If you can't open the doors, you could get an air conditioner or a dehumidifier (if it is a humid heat and you can't find an aircon). --Tango (talk) 19:14, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Paint the roof white. Drill a hole in the wall and install an air conditioner. Put lots of earth around and on top of the box. Use software that allows you to operate your computer or whatever remotely. Work for someone who doesn't expect you to work in an old container. Dmcq (talk) 19:23, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the advice. Be aware that it's not my warehouse, so I can't do anything to the warehouse itself (like installing air con). Vimescarrot (talk) 19:38, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Then get whoever's warehouse it is to install it. --Tango (talk) 20:47, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Make a Fan (implement) or buy a Fan (mechanical), but not if you are a superstitious South Korean. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 22:26, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Wow, that is awesome, thanks for the link. Tempshill (talk) 22:44, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Some companies do the math on worker productivity and decide that installing A/C is the cheaper way to go. Motorised vents in the roof to let the hottest air out can also pay off. In the meantime, opening whatever doors there are to catch even a little bit of breeze will have to do, and put at least a small fan near the area where you fill out your paperwork. Also, check your local labour laws, there are usually temperature thresholds where the company is required to supply water, install fans, or in some cases send you home with pay. As a radical idea, you could consider contacting someone at an appropriate trade union to investigate the problem. Franamax (talk) 22:28, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Gives sweatshop a whole new meaning. DJ Clayworth (talk) 03:05, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

I used to work in a hot shed and by putting sprinklers on the roof I managed to cool the place down. Aprajona (talk) 07:07, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Is it in Calcutta? Edison (talk) 03:22, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Well, Calcutta is in the state of West Bengal, whose Communist Party of India (Marxist) government is noted for its willingness to oppose trade-unionisation. —— Shakescene (talk) 03:52, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

This may not do you any good in a warehouse, but might work in a sectioned off office. [12] If you don't live in a humid climate, evaporative cooling might work: dip your T-shirt in water, wring out, put back on. (OR: in a desert it can work so well that it will make your teeth chatter in searing heat)71.236.26.74 (talk) 06:25, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Gender roles

How might gender specific messages impact on gender roles? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.169.65.64 (talk) 22:50, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Seems like a homework (or summer essay since schools out) question. If your question is homework, show that you have attempted an answer first, and we will try to help you past the stuck point. If you don't show an effort, you probably won't get help. The reference desk will not do your homework for you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.43.90.6 (talk) 23:17, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Why do you think "school's out"? The world is, last I heard, spherical; it is winter in half of it. Gwinva (talk) 04:55, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

It does sound like homework, but here are a couple of suggestions in the form of questions. If you hear the same messages all the time about girls doing one thing and boys doing another, what effect might it have on the way you think about what boys and girls do? What would you feel if you are a boy who likes doing the things they say girls do all the time? How might gender-specific messages be used in advertising? Why would you use them? try reading gender role, the introduction to feminism and transsexual for some more ideas. Steewi (talk) 01:38, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

If you are looking for a specific example, take a look at some of the criticisms of Barbie (particularly the winning of the TOADY award earlier this year). Astronaut (talk) 02:16, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

The irony is that it's the liberals who criticize Barbie now. Originally it was the conservatives. Curiously, their arguments were somewhat the same but not exactly. Meanwhile, the public keeps buying them, because adults argue about what kids should like, but kids just know what they do like. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 03:15, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

June 29

Lopsided Smile

This question has been removed. Per the reference desk guidelines, the reference desk is not an appropriate place to request medical, legal or other professional advice, including any kind of medical diagnosis, prognosis, or treatment recommendations. For such advice, please see a qualified professional. If you don't believe this is such a request, please explain what you meant to ask, either here or on the Reference Desk's talk page.

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Travel iron

I live in an extremely small room and constantly move around and as a result must use items that are small. To press the clothes, I am considering purchasing a travel iron such as this one: http://eshop.webindia123.com/shop/product/electronics/irons/Shopping_Hub/106267 However, I have some doubts. I am wondering whether they work as well the normal sized irons. Or that may not get hot enough or that they may not produce enough steam. Anybody has had positive experiences with them and would recommend them?. 131.220.46.26 (talk) 10:05, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

I have owned and used them in the past and they are just as good as "normal" irons. In fact I prefer them - they do not have the fancy sprayer built in, so there is less to go wrong. And the base plate is flat, rather than being often perforated in normal irons. They were just as hot as normal irons. Edit: Woa! I've never used a trvel iron as small as the one that appears in your link, so cannot speak for that. 89.242.110.252 (talk) 11:07, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Cycle Inner Tube sizes - French system

I've read the Wikipedia articles, and I've read the links from the articles, but I'm still not sure what the significance of all the numbers and letters are on an inner tube size. For example "700x35C" or "700x32C". Is the "700" the external diameter of the inflated tyre in millimetres? Is the "35" or "32" the width of the tyre? What does the "C" mean?

If I have "32" tyre and cannot find a "32" inner tube for it, would it do any harm to use a "35" inner tube instead? I'm thinking that it may be better, as the rubber will be less stretched and thicker, and hence more robust and less likely to get a puncture. Thanks. 89.242.110.252 (talk) 11:46, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

cash money

whats up? I ned to make me $1,000,000 iin one year. I got $2,000 now. I dont mind doin something illegal if I have a low chance of getting busted. I dont want to get killed either so no drug deals. Help plz.