User talk:ChildofMidnight

I will not now or ever remain silent in the face of integrity violating abuse and grotesque censorship. Some things are worth fighting for, and I will never kowtow to ignorance and bias or the thugs that advance them as a righteous cause.

"I would find it impossible to just sit back and watch the blatant injustice without doing something about it. I'd have reversed that block immediately and blocked the blocking admin for 24 hours, until he'd sobered up." -common sense (uncommon on Wikipedia)

Travesty in motion: Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Obama articles/Proposed decision. Wikipedia's arbcom is in the process of dishing out heavy punishments to good faith editors who have faced the wall of incivility and NPOV violating POV pushers camped out on the Obama articles. Despite many efforts to discuss the issue and present alternatives for resolving it, Wizardman and the other Arbcoms appear ready to reinforce and encourage the incivility, obstruction, wikilawyering, and harassment carried out by those calling themselves "defenders" and "patrollers" on these pages. This is a dark time for Wikipedia when bias is encouraged and the censors are rewarded for their efforts. If you're opposed to Arbcom spitting on our core policy of NPOV please contact them and let them know that punishing the good faith efforts of editors facing severe challenges in addressing this problem is the height of bad form and totally unacceptable.

Delete all content that I think is boring or that can be obtained from other sources. But keep both the articles that remain. {&nbsp} — One of Wikipedia's Wise Men

• Please leave your flattering comments and appreciation for my good work at the bottom of the page.
• To discuss issues on this page, please refer to the associated talk page.
• Read about the Kelapstick Bacon Challenge 2009 or get an early start on the 2010 Bacon Challenge coming up in December, 2009 as a giant Christmas present to all of Wikipedia that will be unwrapped March 1, 2010 for National Pig Day!

It was about time you had one of these

		The Surreal Barnstar
		For special merits in Dragon breeding.

Irony

Steely

Steely!

Even Steelier!

Goldie!

Goldie!

Hi

:)

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Horror film genre-specifc reliable sources

If you have time, I'd appreciate your looking in at Horror film genre-specifc reliable sources and either comment, advise, or contribute. I think something like this should have been done a while ago so as to help stop the bickering at AfDs. I might set it as an essay. What thinkest thou?

Re: Thanks

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talkback

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Thanks

For the verbal encouragement... — BQZip01 — ^talk 16:19, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

Why Dot Moore is relevant

Dot Moore is relevant to this issue because she happened to be Ms. Hope's main competition within the local media market. I decided to recommend it for deletion to see what would happen, and interestingly, one of the people who is debating the notability of the Connie Bea Hope article proceeded to remove the deletion notice while addressing my justification for recommending deletion. My contention is, if Moore deserves notation, so does hope. Also, I saw that you created the Payton article. It wouldn't hurt to mention that she was the aunt of Hank Aaron (as per the obituary, I think I had linked it as a source)

Other than that, hope you are having a wonderful day and I wish you well. For me, it's coming down to a sense of sort of "mid-sized city" pride you could say, because this would not be an issue if we were citing the Philadelphia Inquirer, the Los Angeles times or even the New Orleans Times-Picayune, that one being interesting because, as I had pointed out, Mobile's media market is almost the size of New Orleans (and pretty much is if you have a station that covers it and reaches Biloxi) Genovese12345 (talk) 19:02, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

hmmm

I'm surprised by this — Ched :  ?  19:18, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

I thought it would be hard to surprise you at this point! :) We keep getting these arguments supporting candidates who don't want the tools, have never been involved in or dealt with disputes. So how do we know that understand what it's like to deal Wikilawyering or other types of abusive editors who obstruct? How do we know how they deal with disputes? Will they have empathy for editors who DO edit contentious articles and deal with disputes all the time? I don't think these are unreasonable questions. 50-2, it looks like the hope for the bests have a big advantage at this point anyway.

How have you been by the Chedmeister? When is your RfA nom? I have a lot of questions I want to ask... :) Have a good one. ChildofMidnight (talk) 19:26, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

lol ... almost every single day I am surprised at WP. That's what keeps it so fun! re:disputes... I just never think of an admin. as being responsible for any particular area of WP .. be it dispute resolution, XfD, AIV, or whatever. I figure we all play to our strengths. Your question certainly has validity, and I vow to go back and read. I guess I was surprised to see you oppose someone given the invalid opposes in your own RfA. As far as Chedmeister's RfA ... really hasn't come up, other than in a passing comment. My personality likely won't be one that self-noms. I'm good .. had a nice trip from PA to AL in the US lately, very nice. Have made a few mistakes with BLP sorting and all .. but for the most part .. life is good. I hope it's good for you too. ;) — Ched :  ?  20:30, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

If I didn't think my support might be toxic I would nom you, Bongo, Drmies, and K-Schtick. Where's S Marshall when I need him??? Speaking of which... I also need MQS and Ikip's help at AfD. How do I send up a bat signal? ChildofMidnight (talk) 20:36, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

I would be interested in seeing an RfA for a candidate that you nominated. It would make for an interesting read. I would expect that the people of Wikipedia are able to put aside their differences and !vote for a candidate based on their own merits, rather than hang the candidate based on guilt by association, however I would not be surprised if you came up in one or two of the questions. I can see it now:

"Would you have supported CoMs RfA?"

If you needed a co-nominator for Mies, Dr. Bongo, Ched or even MqS (provided they were willing), let me know. As for me, my opinion is if my RfA were to fail based solely on who nominated me rather than on my merits, I would not want to be an administrator, Cheers and happy Memorial Day. --kelapstick (talk) 21:41, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

Hahahaha that was my approach too. I got three supports. :) But if it had been left open long I'm sure I could have gotten well into the high single digits... I forgot to mention Werespielcheqers (sp?) too. I think he's a great editor who maintains and even keel.

I may seem like a glutton for pain and self-immolation, but I don't encourage these behaviors in others. If there was a way to improve important political articles while avoiding conflict and the drama and intrigue of being made a target by editors who refuse to abide by our policies, I would love to know what it is.

That being said, I think it's probably best (safest?) to follow the procedures and keep a low profile as much as is possible. If someone chooses to engage in difficulties and challenges that exist either before or after getting the bit, good on them, but trying to resolve conflicts and taking on thorny issues is a fast train to Oppose votes as many a candidate (Bwilkins comes to mind) can testify. Thus the Admins willing to take on challenges are few and far between, and instead we get stealth candidates and automoton like robots who have never been involved in a dispute.

I don't see how editors who haven't engaged in contentious issues are qualified or experienced enough to deal with some of the key Administrative rolls. But it's hard to find anyone who deals with contentious fare and can still pass RfA. Even Admins avoid dealing with problems (they might want to run for higher office some day). So I say good on Elonka and Durova for being willing to step up. Even where we disagree with them they deserve our highest respect and regard for being willing to try and resolve problems in a fair and reasonable way. But they have certainly taken heat for it and it's a problem because every grudge counts against you if you ever try to make something of youreslf, whether it be Admin, bureaucrat, high priest, and Jimboidal ambassador to one of the micronations. ChildofMidnight (talk) 23:30, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

I like your last edit summary. Bongomatic 02:10, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

←impressive ;) — Ched :  ?  21:09, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Thanks. I'm eagerly awaiting your candidacy. Accept already. I have three pages of questions and a year's supply of Bacon and egg pies at the ready. ChildofMidnight (talk) 21:16, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Ahh-Haa .. now you know how I felt, well, at least up until it got kinda yucky. Actually, I think Pedro is looking at the possibility, and he mentioned maybe sometime in June. I told him I'd be more than willing if he thought it could help the community, so it may come sooner than I thought. Actually, I didn't think anyone would take it seriously until I had about a year in, but the issue is on the table, so we'll see where it goes from here. I'll definitely be doing some serious study work! ;) — Ched :  ?  01:50, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

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Smallman12q (talk) 21:01, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

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Smallman12q (talk) 21:06, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Do you just enjoy the pain?

Good luck with Puebla F.C.. will try to engage anon on their talk page... I have one prediction what the outcome there will be... Asking for help at AN, as suggested was a little bit less than no help so can I pass the baton on to you?! How's things with Mr Obama? People still not interested in a balanced story? I heard he used to like toy cars, but I can't see that mentioned anywhere in the article. Oh, and I'm off to spy on your AfDs, see if I agree with you or not. And then I'll write about bacon ice cream... Bigger digger (talk) 22:34, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

I'm becoming quite on expert on what passes for football in foreign lands. Just yesterday I was working on the chicken wing tackle.

I happened upon the responses to your request for assitance at AN. They didn't seem very encouraging, but then it is a holiday, at least where I am.

The Obama coverage is rocking on. The joys of collaborating with the many good faith editors who are eager to ensure that a variety of notable perspectives are included (per WP:NPOV) is truly heart warming. If something is added that they don't agree with they always try to fix it rather than just object and delete it wholesale. Participating in the collegial editing environment there is a fantastic experience that I recommend to everyone, especially friends and family.

As far as the odd tidbit, I'm all for including them. Not in the main article of course, but someone suggested height and weight and other details and I say go for it. It's at least as relevant as the 489th article on a Pokemon character. :) I'm surviving at AfD more or less. Canvassing, begging, pleading, whining, whinging, and bribery are working wonders. ChildofMidnight (talk) 22:57, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

Ah, the chicken wing. Useful on students, probably not so good on professional athletes... I took the liberty of expanding it a bit, is it going for a DYK? I was disappointed not to find a video or photo of it. What's youtube for it not for showing slo-mo replays of agonising pain on the sports field??

I've successfully stalked you at AfD, generally agree, but not on the one that's probably most important, sorry! And I think I'll steer clear of any controversial statements in Obama articles, but thanks for the advice... Bigger digger (talk) 00:41, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

If someone was involved in a television cooking program on a local NYC station for decades and they had an obit in the NY Times would there be any question about their notability? And in my opinion this cooking show in Mobile, Alabama, when there were only two channels even in existence there, is more significant than half the big city garbage anyway. It's got race issues, television history, culinary happenings, and I want to watch it! Oh well. You Brits! Maybe if she had a show on chips, donner kebabs and bacon buttys you'd feel different... ChildofMidnight (talk) 00:47, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

And as far as controversial edits, who would have thought that a sentence noting Republican and Conservative opposition would be controversial? Do people really think those on the political right like Obama? Seriously? Or that all of a sudden opposition, criticisms and controversies aren't notable for this particular president as they have been for all the others? Seems wrong. I don't like censorship or ignorance, and I'm not going to have any part of encouraging it. ChildofMidnight (talk) 00:50, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Donor meat, chips and cheese (What?!! No article?!) is the way forward after a few drinks to really maximise calorie intake, but I don't know if I'd want to watch or listen to a program on it. I guess the NY-based broadcasters meet WP:GNG if not WP:BIO so wp treats them as more notable. That's maybe fair enough, more people hear/read/see them. At the end of the day, I'm having to go in search of sources for major African musicians who just don't get contemporary internet-searchable English-language coverage, so your Mobile problems are small fry! Bigger digger (talk) 11:10, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

"Donor meat" doesn't sound good to me. Although my recent work on a miniature pig article (will be live soon) suggests there is life saving potential from porcine animal "donors"! (I've also seen it written that bacon is a hangover cure, so there are broad medical implications.) But I'm not sure what exactly "donor meat" involves, and it has a Soylent Green type of ring to it that's troubling me... ChildofMidnight (talk) 16:48, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Round Peak

Hi, in that area of the southern Appalachians a lot of states touch one another and are right near one another. Mount Airy, North Carolina is in northernmost North Carolina while nearby Galax, Virginia (where the style is very similar) is in southernmost Virginia. The "greater Round Peak" area probably includes both cities as well as the surrounding towns in both states, or at least that's my understanding of it. Badagnani (talk) 03:13, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Just got this from Flippen's Internet guru and MySpace page manager:

“ In regards to Round Peak music, locally it refers specifically to the Round Peak/Low Gap/Mt. Airy area and NOT the Galax, Virginia area. However, nationally, they both have been lumped together for the sake of easier comprehension. The difference between them is typically the banjo style and repertoire of tunes. Benton's music encompasses that of the Round Peak style, as well as the broader Surry County style, and even the commercial styles of early recording artists like Fiddlin' Arthur Smith, Uncle Dave Macon, and others. In the last decade or so, he has been promoted as the last living proponent of Round Peak fiddling, a title rightful to him. ”

Badagnani (talk) 04:29, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Gentleman Jack

Let's keep at it and get a bourbon DYK here. Nice for Genovese also. Drmies (talk) 05:04, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Jackpot

Bacon Vodka Law _{type! snype?} 06:44, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

[1] it makes sense .. bacon does go well with potatoes! cheers, --guyzero | talk 08:57, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Please add to User:ChildofMidnight/Baconchallenge2009. The challenge should be going live in 7 hours... So there's plenty of time. :) ChildofMidnight (talk) 16:45, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Understood...

ChildofMidnight, thanks for the note on my talk page. I've left you a reply there. Cheers. — CactusWriter | ^needles 08:12, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

T.Madhavan

Yes, I have to add a few more links. The link I had given in the talk page is to an article in Economic Times about gold price volatility study the professor had conducted. Paalappoo (talk) 08:37, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Can you pl check the links I have added? Paalappoo (talk) 18:22, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Prof.Madhavan is a professor of statistics, data analysis, forecasting etc. He is well known for his teaching style and knowledge. He has not taught in any institute other than IIM A. Let me try to get more sources. Paalappoo (talk) 18:46, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Yes, his works have been published. I will try to get more info about those. He has co-authored a couple of books too. But I dont have any info about those too. :( Paalappoo (talk) 19:00, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

"Production and Quantitative Methods area" is the name of the department the prof works in. In IIM A, usage of "area" is common in most department names. Forecasting, data analysis (using regression, correlation, moving average) etc are technically statistical methods. Those are found as chapters in statistics text books.

I am not able to locate any links to his other works or discussions about his works as I am thru a heavily firewalled network.

BTW, climatic variables are part of time series. Seasonal adjustment and trend estimation are the techniques used. I know a bit of statistics but nothing about climate. Paalappoo (talk) 19:21, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Social Security Index

The Social Security Index is a database of the SSA that catalogs the name of every person who has died who was ever on Social Security. It lists birth/death dates, where the benefits were last received, what the name of the person was, and their social security number. It was the only way to get the valid dates for Payton --Genovese12345 (talk) 16:00, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Delete

All content that I think is boring or that can be obtained from other sources. But keep both the articles that remain. Aymatth2 (talk) 17:50, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

• O.k., drop those two articles, which have no reliable sources. Aymatth2 (talk) 12:23, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Climatic variables

I think they are discussed in weather forecasting and numerical weather prediction. Paalappoo (talk) 19:25, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Related topics, but I think climate variables and variability are something quite different. The statistical studies and methodologies involved are very interesting, particularly as the subject is involved in such major political topics. I think an encyclopedic article on the subject of the varaibles and variability that includes the scientific approaches involved would be very interesting. Global warming and climate change are buzz words that are polluted with partisanship and the fanatacism of ideologues (on both sides of the issue). I've added the topic to my to do list... But don't hold your breath. :) ChildofMidnight (talk) 19:31, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Maybe I can add what I know. I have learnt the techniques as part of statistics, just the manipulation and analysis of data. The same techniques are used in index and volatility predicitons in finance. :) Paalappoo (talk) 19:38, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Snake 'n' Bacon

Okay, I've deleted the page for you. Spencer^{T♦Nominate!} 01:27, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

And in other pork news . . .

Did you ever read this classic? Bongomatic 05:36, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Apparently porketarians are plotting the overthrow of the middle-classes. Bigger digger (talk) 22:38, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Or this current item? Bongomatic 14:45, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Bacon mania

In checking something for an RfA, I noticed in the above page: At Bad Decisions bar in Fells Point people clamor for the "Bacon and Beer Happy Hours". The source states: "At Bad Decisions bar in Fells Point, people clamor for the Bacon and Beer Happy Hours". This sentence needs to be rewritten. I haven't checked the rest of the page, but since it was your work, could you go through an ensure that any sentences like this are paraphrased and do not contain phrases from the original articles? Thanks. Ottava Rima (talk) 20:05, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

It's not a direct quote. So I think it would be wrong to put it in quotation marks? The comma in the original text is ommitted and I put Bacon and Beer Happy Hours in quotation marks, which means that it's not a direct quote and has in fact been rewritten. As it's cited I'm not sure there's an issue, but if there's a policy that says different I'm happy to make whatever changes are necessary. I see your point that it's very similar to the original, but it's not a quotation of the original, and it's cited. Perhaps someone with more expertise than I have will weigh in? ChildofMidnight (talk) 20:12, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

The phrases duplication beyond what can be said as reasonable, so the line has to be rewritten. As I tell people, the ballpark is unique phrase of three words or more in a row. The "people clamor for" tipped me off as unusual language for an encyclopedia, which is why I picked up on it. Please just go through and rewrite the line and any others you noticed, and I will AGF that there are no other similar problems. Ottava Rima (talk) 21:41, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Done. I understand your concern. The wording is close enough that it's certainly a grey area if not an outright no no.

I didn't want to put something that wasn't a direct quotation in quotes, and apart from the word clamor, in my opinion, there didn't seem to be a lot research that could reasonably be construed as being plagarized. There's a location, the word "people" and "for", and the name of the event (which I did put in quotes). I considered putting clamor in quotation marks, but I thought that would violate MOS. When I change the word "clamor", I'm paraphrasing, but I'm also using what to some extent amounts to original research. I've seen people argue endlessly about what a source actually "said" so I guess that's why I'm sometimes reluctant to do aggressive rewording.

I've replaced clamor with popular, which I think hews close enough to the original meaning, while still being a reword, and I also changed the sentence order a bit. My understanding, and I've just reviewed wp:plagarism, is that the key is the amount and extent of the content used and the level of attribution used to attribute and recognize its origin. I think 3 words is a very strict interpretation, especially if it applies to words that aren't distinctive or meaningful in any way.

I've actually been meaning to rewrite the "end of" section as quite a lot of it is taken from one source. I used quotations and mentioned the paper itself as well as using citations, but it still needs a trim and some consolidation. I think I was sucked in by the fun wording of the statements!

Please let me know if you have any other concerns. Cheers. Thanks for your civility in discussing the issues you've raised. ChildofMidnight (talk) 22:09, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

That's all your charm used up for the rest of the month... Bigger digger (talk) 22:26, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

I have a lot of respect for Ottava. I've seen this editor take unpopular stands, raise some very good points in discussions, and I think they have a lot of integrity for doing so. I know from personal experience that it isn't always pleasant to be the nail that sticks up on Wikipedia.

I moved the article for you BD. I hope that's okay, you did give your permission, but I guess there was really no rush. You know what they say: exciting times call for excited actions. :) Won't be long now. Still time for one more bacon article? Hahhaha. I hope everyone involved had fun. It was nice that some people I hadn't worked with previously took part. :) The alliance that extends over the geographic and culinary pond between us and that bridges BLT (sandwich) and bacon butty, shouldn encourage us to work together and tackle common problems, like the need for more bacon article on Wikipedia.

Was it you who mentioned another "contest" of some sort for another area of articles? There was something mentioned on WT:DYK about it, but I can't remember what the topic area was. Has anything come of it? I think I need a couple weeks (or days anyway) break, and then I'm ready for the next "Big Thing". Someone suggested a "best article on Wikipedia" contest on Jimbo's page, which immediately elicited a lot of support and some dramatic opposition to the idea of something that might cause drama. I'm a big supporter of dramatically opposing any dramatic changes or new ideas that could provoke drama. :) Have you heard about the Elvis/ peanut butter and banana/ bacon/ sandwich controversy? I'm trying to stoke the flames, but not much doing so far... ChildofMidnight (talk) 22:40, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Ottava is an impressively busy editor and great contributor, I've seen the Ottava name everywhere. Fine about moving the article, I did invite anyone to, although I enjoyed the fact you moved it to the full name first, before moving it again to Seduced by Bacon - anything to keep the edit count ticking over ;-)

The BLT is well established over here, so we're practically neighbours. I might actually do the bacon ice cream article tomorrow, but don't hold your breath. And yes, over on WT:DYK there's mention of an International ID4 Challenge. Something along the lines of flagging up other countries' Independence Days on July 4, but there was some debate and it's kinda fizzled. They need someone inspiring, dynamic, charismatic, dogmatic, phlegmatic and useful in a tight situation. How about you?Do you know anyone suitable?!

Thanks for the rewrite. As I said, the key is the unique part. If I were to say, "President of the United States Barack Obama says", then that would obviously not count. :) The "clamor" definitely seemed like artistic flair taken by a columnist (not by a reporter, but there are few true reporters so its hard to tell) to spice up their description. I looked at your rewrite and had a simple suggestion (there was a redundancy). Try: "At Bad Decisions, a bar in Fells Point, Baltimore, the popular "Bacon and Beer Happy Hours" employs a unique menu devoted to creative bacon dishes and offers large bowls filled with bacon on the bar for customers." How does that sound? Ottava Rima (talk) 00:18, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Respectfully, this kind of hair splitting can be a problem when policies are overinterpreted and taken into effect too technically (beyond what they actually say). Your rewrite of the sentence suggests that the menu is unique and that the event is "popular", which is original research not actually stated in the article. The article says: The bacon scene simmers in Baltimore, too. At Bad Decisions bar in Fells Point, people clamor for the Bacon and Beer Happy Hours. The next one is set for April 14. Bar owner John Reusing infuses his whole menu with bacon - he's done bacon-wrapped plantains and cheesy bacon fries - and places big bowls of bacon on the bar. "At the last one, I went through 30 pounds of bacon in about two hours," he says."

I'm not sure which articles you work on, but on those I've worked on, people can be very technical about original research and about editors applying synthesizing what sources say. I think it's reasonable to infer that the event is popular. But even that can be disputed (just as you are disputing how many words it takes to amount to plagarism) and there's nothing in the source that says they serve a "unique" menu. I'm not trying to give you a hard time, and I'm very flexible on how the bit is worded, but you've rendered a strong oppose based on statements that are less closesly worded to their sources than this one, and as I think this discussion and editing process shows, judgement about appropriateness are subjective and some latitude needs to be granted. Anyone who objects to the way something is worded or attributed is welcome to modify it. It's clear that lifting a paragraph is plagarism. It's also clear that describing something in a way that isn't in the source can be problematic. This creates challenges and a need for balance. I would also like to point out that the bit we are discussing is much closer to the source than those you've identified as being problematic from another editor.

So my point to you is, when a source is cited, unless it is word for word preserved it shouldn't be quoted, and it shouldn't be altered meaningfully because that would be misattribution. Within these boundaries there is room for interpretation, but there is a popular saying that goes "Judge not lest ye be judged." ;) I agree with you that the original sentence I used was VERY close to the source I cited. I've tried to explain why that decision was made in this particular case. There's not that much content to work with, and simply changing order or using a synonym for a word does NOT actually eliminate plagarism. The citation attributes the statement and that's the source for it. I understand your understanding of how the policies apply is not identical to mine, but I hope you can recognize that we approach the issue with the same interest in quality sourcing and attribution. ChildofMidnight (talk) 00:59, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Popular for people clamoring would not be OR per its definition - "a vehement expression of desire or dissatisfaction" with the context that it is favorable. Popular is a versatile word that can suggest a large crowd or a tiny crowd and still have popularity. Now, the "unique" part is the happy hour menu is unique to the rest of the menu, meaning, it is separate, which is suggested from the article (hence a "happy hour menu"). Obviously, the words can be switched out, and it is merely a suggestion to remove the redundancy. Ottava Rima (talk) 02:37, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

From a suggestion from Bongomatic...

The seed idea for this article was given me by Bongomatic three weeks ago. When I finally got to it earlier today, I was so caught up I had to keep chugging away ubtil I reached this point. Now I'm looking for input. User:MichaelQSchmidt/The Final Inch Any advice? Schmidt, ^{MICHAEL Q.} 06:00, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

I left you a couple notes in the text... What's on tap for this weekend? ChildofMidnight (talk) 06:31, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Saw your notes. Sweet tweaks. The items you felt might be quotes are actually a condensation from several lengthy interviews of the diector. When she took 5 sentemces to say something, I took away the flowery language and hyperbole and made it as simple and factual as possible in one sentence. Since the iformation was her's, I had to attribute her as the source. Maybe I should add back all her verbiage and include it in quotes? Schmidt, ^{MICHAEL Q.} 09:40, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

I'll have another look. Maybe I can "tweak" in something about, The director said,". Not sure, they just seemed like opinions that needed clearer attribution. ChildofMidnight (talk) 15:29, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Just fixed my typos above. Sheesh. I need a new keyboard. And hey... got confirmation for the T&E stuff in July. 7/24 Live show in San Diego. 7/25 AwesomeCon picnic. 7/26 Live show in Anaheim. :) Schmidt, ^{MICHAEL Q.} 18:41, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Further expanded and sourced. Neutralized POV. Removed weasel. Made nicer. Check again, please. Am thinking of going live and am even now considering a couple nice DYKs. Schmidt, ^{MICHAEL Q.} 20:34, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Have gone live and submitted a suitable DYK.Schmidt, ^{MICHAEL Q.} 23:05, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Looks good. ChildofMidnight (talk) 23:10, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

S Marshall for admin

Please see User_talk:S_Marshall#How_about_it.3F. Drmies (talk) 17:52, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

I'm always 3 or 4 steps ahead of you. And I've now scored in flag football on the beach two weeks in a row. See Shake 'N Bake for more information... Hey it's fun giving you a hard time about the article mix up. But I found the nom to be exceptionally well written otherwise. If K-Schtick can pass his RfA despite being associated with the monstrosities/ articles I've created, it is even more of a testament to what a great editor he is. ChildofMidnight (talk) 18:46, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Do you want to do a formal co-nom? I think it would be a good idea if you are up for it. Hobit (talk) 22:49, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Be careful what you wish for. ChildofMidnight (talk) 23:09, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Rare video footage of an early AfD review

A member of the Editorial Board explains his views to the audience

Note: this section has been completely rewritten since being listed by nom. Aymatth2 (talk) 23:24, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

[2]? ChildofMidnight (talk) 20:57, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

S. Marshall

I intend to support this editor's candidacy should the nomination be accepted. I noticed this sentence in your recent co-nomination:

"I encourage everyone to support his candidacy for office at least once."

I know that you intend it to be in jest, but that sounds like another endorsement to employ socks and meats - something your own candidacy fell foul of as I recall. I recommend that you refactor that sentence so that this editor's RfA is not tainted. -- Scjessey (talk) 23:18, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

I understand your concern and so I have modified my statement accordingly. See what you think. ChildofMidnight (talk) 23:36, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

The qualifier should be sufficient (it seems fine to me); however, if it was me I'd probably cut out the joke completely. Some people have had their sense of humor surgically removed and it is conceivable they could use your words against you in the future. It shouldn't do any harm to the RfA now though. -- Scjessey (talk) 23:42, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

I agree a straight nom might be better. But I think it's a fair compromise. Those looking for ammunition to use against me will have no problem finding far stronger stuff than that bit, and I have to hope and trust that my bad jokes will not be held against the nominee. ChildofMidnight (talk) 23:51, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

That seems fine to me. Anyway, you could always cite this conversation if anyone gives you any crap about it. -- Scjessey (talk) 23:53, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

What'cha think?

Decent enough rescue? Any suggestions? Schmidt, ^{MICHAEL Q.} 03:40, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

I know there's a plot summary, but would you mind telling me what the movie is about in the introduction and the article body? Is it a love story? Is it about Memphis? That would help me out a lot. I can't speak for what others care about. WTFK? :) ChildofMidnight (talk) 03:52, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

Read This. And better, Memphis Flyer, which more specifically says "Team Picture focuses on a few days (or perhaps weeks) in the life of a young man named Dave (played by Audley under his given name), who is caught between his ostensibly normal work and family life and his more bohemian home life. At the outset, Dave shows up for work at a Germantown sporting goods store, looking uncomfortable in khaki pants and a tucked-in baby-blue polo shirt and exchanging awkward conversation with his boss, a jocky and jocular man (played by local sportscaster Greg Gaston) who also happens to be his mother's boyfriend. Audley cuts from this scene to a shot of Dave at home and at ease — wearing cutoff shorts, a straw hat, and sunglasses, strumming an acoustic guitar and filling up a kiddie pool in the overgrown front yard of the Midtown house he shares with roommate Eric." I always wonder just what to use and what not.. how much is too much and how much is not enough. Schmidt, ^{MICHAEL Q.} 04:02, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

Schmidty just tell me what the movie is about. Don't make me read stuff. :) Sorry. I'm a little sleepy. Do you want me to have a look? I think we can say:

• The movie is about the life of a young man whose interactions at an ordinary job and with his family are a stark contrast to his bohemian home life with friends. Fitting into the khaki pants and shirt tucked in demands of a job, is an adjustment for a character apt to strum an acoustic guitar in cutoff shorts while wearing a straw hat by the backyard kiddie pool.

Voila!ChildofMidnight (talk) 04:12, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

Beat ya to it. :) Schmidt, ^{MICHAEL Q.} 04:18, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

your sock, sir?

Eh...care to explain this? Drmies (talk) 05:59, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

You know I don't use language that mild. Isn't this a school night? The late hour and your educational duties leads me to wonder... Please remember that rarely is the question asked: Is our children learning? ChildofMidnight (talk) 06:05, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

Hello, ChildofMidnight. You have new messages at Smartse's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

homegrown is alright with me

Haha, look at the image I added for Seed swap. Drmies (talk) 20:30, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

I'm not looking. I'm too scared. I'm going to go put up the BC2009 hooks. After I'm done, would you have a look and do whatever clean up is required? Gracias! ChildofMidnight (talk) 20:34, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

Sure thing. Hey, I thought you'd appreciate that article, given your interest in communal things like potlachs. Drmies (talk) 21:55, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

I am a big fan of potlach, especially as it seems related to totem poles. I am also a fan of potlucks, a culinary event that cleary deserves its own monumental statuary. ChildofMidnight (talk) 17:55, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

Banh

Where are your photos and why did you get in trouble? Give me accent marks or I won't be able to make sense of what you're typing. Badagnani (talk) 05:01, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

Message

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Another one

Hello, ChildofMidnight. You have new messages at Ross Rhodes's talk page.
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It may be time to make the final push

I don't know how these situations work, so I don't know how to evaluate how this goes. I know that it was relisted for "consensus" and as it stands now it looks like a split vote. However, in terms of contigency, how does the appeals process work if the unthinkable happens? I have read notability. This clearly satisfies it. So, how do we make said argument, or at least, get an extension on this. --Genovese12345 (talk) 20:33, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

And Now for Something Completely Different

We have some serious matters to discuss, the articles for Bacon Challenge 2009 not going up in the same update is both disappointing and anticlimactic. What is the incentive to actually participate if you are not going to have an entire bacon update. Nobody would notice that the challenge even occurred it just looks like a bunch of bacon articles got put up on DYK. Before the challenge started was there ever official opposition? I don't remember it. I guess silence doesn't mean acceptance. Hopefully we can get approval for national pig day next year or else I do not see the point in proceeding. But I suppose that the challenge was a success as we got 8+ articles about important subjects written and nominated, which was the goal. Also your dream about an article on turkey bacon is now realized. --kelapstick (talk) 05:15, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

I proposed it and noted it on the DYK discussion page early on to try and get a feel for how it would be received. I was open about the challenge all along. There was no opposition expressed, but as you point out, silence does not equal consent. I'm sorry if I overpromised and underdelivered, but I did expect there to be some opposition, as there are always people resistant to innovations and the making of waves or actions that might make waves.

We do what we can. I think it was a very positive collaboration and I think it resulted in some outstanding and interesting articles. Many people have been made aware of the Challenge, and I think it sets a good example for similar initiatives. I know there are other competitions on Wikipedia regarding adding citations and such. Hopefully the challenge has a bright future, I don't see why it wouldn't.

I am not (yet) all powerful, but if I were I would certainly have complied with your expectations. I did group the hooks together on the DYK page where quite a few people saw them. I haven't been folowing the main page closely, but I hope a couple will make it on as photos and get some good attention. I tried to indicate that we would try to have them be together, but that there was no guarantee, but I don't really remember exactly what I said. Looking back I'm not even sure I mentioned the challenge on the Food and Drink talk page, did I?

Anyway, I was always waiting for someone to object or criticize. I think the response was really pretty positive all things considered, and even a Lady of Shallots was sucked in. It wasn't a mainspace project, so I think we have to take what we can get. Whether it will fly as an update on National Pig Day, I don't know. I expect there will be some objections to doing bacon articles on pig day for similar reasons to those for doing an all bacon update on any other day, as well as new objections. If you want to a have a pig project that might be different.

You got a lot of support K-stick! It's an interesting process. And you did quite a bit better than I did, despite my gentle nature and soft touch. So you must be doing something right. Check out the Shake 'n Bake Canadian ad. I added it to the article in your honor! ChildofMidnight (talk) 05:48, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

I don't follow the machinations of DYK, but I did notice a posting at the Village Pump (policy?) about a discussion about themed DYKs in general. Apparently, there's some opposition to having any themes (such as for holidays or anything). It might be something you'd want to find and comment about if you feel strongly about having them. LadyofShalott 06:55, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

Good point. And the consensus was pretty strong from the experts, so I think we should conclude that themed updates, with a few exceptions, are frowned upon. Makin' bacon will have to be reward enough in and of itself. ChildofMidnight (talk) 07:01, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

Alas, we could not have our bacon and eat it too. I saw your comments at DYK, but like I said didn't see opposition until B-Day, could have been tunnel vision though. I did notice that Dylan wanted to join in the fun, and didn't notice that BC09 had already passed (reinforces my earlier point about people not noticing). That is too bad but on the bright side he will make an excellent addition to BC10. He must be a super guy with great judgment as he named a day after me. (you can consider this your official RfA thankspam) Thanks again for coming out and supporting my RfA, you probably read my justification etc. at Doc Mies' talk page. I appreciate the discussions that you took part in both on and off the official page. I appreciate all the effort and commentary. On the bright side metals are up today[3] so maybe I should get back to less important matters, such as building a mine.--kelapstick (talk) 20:54, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

RE:RFA

I don't really follow the RFA pages (I only pop in once in a while to double check content contribs), so I'm unsure what recent nom you may be referring to. In any case, one of the best ways to avoid copyright problems and the gnarly issue of "how much change is enough" when paraphrasing is just not to paraphrase altogether. That is, start the prose from scratch rather than using the source material's wording as a baseline and trying to reword things. It's a difficult thing to do, and takes practice and willpower to not take the lazier route. Internalize your source material, think about how you would construct the ideas/thoughts into prose, and go from there. It all comes down to practice, and in the end, after numerous iterations of this exercise, it helps writers find their own voice, too. WP:OR really shouldn't come into play as long as one understands the source material correctly. The ideas certainly originate from somewhere, but how these ideas are structured into prose should be a creative process. Original prose is different than original research.

Ideally, I'd love to see every admin candidate try his/her hand at writing an article (whether a brand new one or picking among the numerous ones that badly need a rewrite). The entire process, from research to the actual writing, gives candidates a comprehensive view of the encyclopedia-building process;after all, we're here to build first-rate content, and admins are here to facilitate this goal. BuddingJournalist 05:38, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

That makes a lot of sense. On the other hand, I know from personal experience that every word can be parsed if it isn't consistent with what the source says, so there is alse pressure to stay close to the sources and to avoid accusations of synth. But such is life, there's always a need for balance. I do think some latitude should be granted to cited material, as citations provide attribution and a clear indication of where something is from. Rewording and rewriting too much can also create problems of misattribution where content is NOT consistent with the source. But I agree that we must do our best to avoid plagarism. Thanks very much for sharing your insights. They are well considered. ChildofMidnight (talk) 05:48, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

Indeed, I've encountered the problem of editors misrepresenting sources numerous times in my short career at Wikipedia. But in actuality, some of these cases arose when folks used the prose of the source material as a baseline and tried to futz around with various "synonyms" to accomplish a successful "paraphrase"; to me, it seemed like these editors didn't really understand the source material to begin with, which is the larger issue. Certainly, using original wording makes the challenge of matching the source material's ideas harder, but it is a skill necessary for any form of serious writing, and one vital to the building of an encyclopedia.

As an aside, on that RFA, I find it troubling that many editors seemed to brush off the other copyright concerns so readily. Copyright violations are a serious matter and are probably second only to BLP issues that can so thoroughly damage the reputation of Wikipedia. I'm glad Kelapstick recognized the seriousness of these concerns; I wish other editors would take a similar attitude. BuddingJournalist 05:38, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

If what's on that RfA's talk page are copyvios, and I see your point and agree they are somewhat borderline, I think many RfAs would fail under the same scrutiny. I have found that if I go looking for problems I often find them. We are all human. And if it isn't using too much from the source, it's something else. :) But I think your explanations and reasoning are sound. You would be a good candidate to clarify the policy. And I think no matter how it's written there will be a sizable grey area.ChildofMidnight (talk) 06:00, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

Some of the examples are certainly borderline (which is one reason I advocate starting prose from scratch rather than trying to reword things to try to get it "paraphrased enough"). But taken holistically, and given the fact that they are from multiple articles, they are more troubling. Also, having just re-read the plagiarism guideline, I believe it's inadequate and confusing in it's current form. However, I'm not sure I have the time and energy to take on the Sisyphean task of substantially editing a guideline and gaining consensus. :) Maybe I'll just pen an essay instead... BuddingJournalist 06:37, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

It's late in the evening here now. But I will say the process you describe of reading something, understanding it, and putting it into one's own words borders at least as much on issues of OR and synth, it seems to me, as taking content, attributing it with cites, and paraphrasing it or rephrasing approaches plagarism. ChildofMidnight (talk) 06:45, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

Well, there are certainly pitfalls to avoid with both. However, I wouldn't say the risk with the former is original research so much as misrepresentation of the sources. Then again, that issue still rears its head when one tries to paraphrase/change wording. BuddingJournalist 07:28, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

BC2009

I see that it's been over two weeks since anybody else has joined, but since I'm interested in participating (perhaps starting off with the Bacon maple doughnut article), I'd like to ask you this; can anybody, anybody at all, join? → Dylan620 (Toolbox Alpha, Beta) 13:21, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

DYK for Miniature pig

On May 31, 2009, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Miniature pig, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Dravecky (talk) 14:21, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

Destill, my beating heart.

I bought some cheap vodka, but some great bacon and a granny smith apple. I was thinking about making apple-bacon vodka. Do you think that's too much? I wanted something for a bloody mary. Maybe I should make celery vodka. Law _{type! snype?} 02:39, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

Have you considered cheddar-infused vodka? I just made a comment on the talk page that suggestion some categories of vodka infusions and I confess cheese didn't even occur to me until now. Bongomatic 02:54, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

That is an excellent idea. I think I will go to the store and get several minijars. I will do one bacon, one cheddar, one celery, and one other, yet tbd. I'll snap a fabulous pic. Law _{type! snype?} 03:14, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

I have a feeling the cheese won't work very well (suggestively few references found in a number of reasonable Google searches, and those references were not encouraging). But if it does, you're on your way to a bacon-cheeseburger martini, which would really be something. Bongomatic 03:31, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

I don't trust the Internet for big decisions. Law _{type! snype?} 03:50, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

I think slightly charred ground beef would probably infuse very well. As might onion. Let me know how the cheese comes out. Bongomatic 04:15, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

The batch I've been making in my tub is almost ready, and I haven't added bacon to it. ChildofMidnight (talk) 22:40, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

Someone's stolen your idea... Still, they don't yet seem to be offering a bacon-cheeseburger martini, so there's still a gap in the market. Bigger digger (talk) 17:41, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Re:suggestion

Yours and Scjessey's findings and subsequent remedies were the hardest for me to see what needs to be handled and what does not, primarily for the reasons you state. That's why I put the block of you two in a separate finding, because other arbitrators might be thinking the same thing you are and will oppose it. As for whether some punishments seem harsher than others, with one getting a slap on the wrist, I looked through all the diffs and went by what they were doing, i didn't go in with any preconceived notions. As for article probation, I was unaware that no one was really using it during this time, I'll keep that in mind, since my votes may not remain the same as they are now, other arbitrators may make note of something I miss or interpreted wrongly. As for the templating, I'll separate that finding out because it is reaching a bit, as you said, and it's possible that that finding will fail. Wizardman 03:04, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

Speaking of my userpage

I put that retired template on my page for the Hell of it a while ago to see if anyone would say or do anything about it because my page gets 100s of views when I make articles. No one has done anything I think I'll remove it; it's false of course but who cares? Is that suppossed to be taken seriously and really not put on for the Hell of it? Must not be too stirring; thousands of views have happened and no one has said a thing about it.

Also a while back someone edited one of my userboxes. They put NOT in the box that says this user is god (this user is NOT God); they titled the edit removed arrogance. lol Daniel Christensen (talk) 15:29, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

I saw that you were retired. But lots of people seem to continue to work even after retirement these days. Times are tough. Maybe I'll put one on my userpage and see if anyone says anything. Wikipedia would probably throw a block party.

The "not" addition sounds like a reasonable edit as long as it was cited. :) ChildofMidnight (talk) 22:30, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

No, I was never retired. I just put it there to get a reaction because I thought it looked cool when I found it. Yeah, I think it would be funny if any admin put one on their userpage but kept contributing at a normal or increased rate. But yeah I never got a reaction,even as I kept pumping out articles. Daniel Christensen (talk) 02:16, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

DYK problem

Hello! Your submission of National Pig Day at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and there still are some issues that may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! --Giants27 (t|c|r|s) 21:30, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

Would one of my amigos (or the Lady of Shallots) be so kind as to add categories to this article? Thanks! ChildofMidnight (talk) 22:26, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

I added Category:March observances, but I don't think it falls under the Category:Pigs (about actual types of pigs) or Category:Pork, is it is more about the pig than the pork. Maybe Pigs, but with a * to bring it to the top as the rest are actual types of pigs. Talk amongst yourselves.--kelapstick (talk) 22:31, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

What about agriculture or something? Is a Lua (sp?) in any applicable categories? ChildofMidnight (talk) 22:44, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

Nah, luau is in Hawaiian culture, meals and Hawaiian words and phrases. Assuming that is what you meant. Although there is the 2009 swine flu outbreak action against pigs in Category:Pigs so that may actually be appropriate.--kelapstick (talk) 22:50, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

Steamed clams

I've been tied up with other matters, but I finally got around to thinking clearly about the questions you posted on my talk page.

The distinction between "steamed" and "steamer" clams quickly becomes confusing... I agree with your idea that the content about steamer clams (as a type of clam) in the steamed clams article should be merged into Soft-shell clam, and the steamed clams article should be repurposed as an article about preparing and eating steamed clams (i.e., focusing on steaming as a method of preparing this and other types of clams). I see that some good improvements have been made along these lines.

I'm relieved to see that the reference to the NY Times article "HEPATITIS TRACED TO STEAMED CLAMS; Physicians Find Cooking Not Sufficient to Kill Virus-- Frying Is Called Safe" has been removed. Unless someone has read the whole article, it's not much of a basis for a statement in an encyclopedia article. My reading of the free snippet from that article is that people are as likely to get hepatitis from eating steamed clams as from eating clams raw on the half shell. That's shocking, if true. If there is additional information on the health and safety aspects of steaming clams, it would be good to add it to the article. --Orlady (talk) 21:00, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

• (moved to bottom so I don't forget to follow up... ChildofMidnight (talk) 22:44, 1 June 2009 (UTC))

I wish to note the hyperbolic headline carried by the NY Times about steamed clams. I agree with Orlady that it is a shocking assertion, and I'm confident that it's just as accurate as the rest of what's reported in that source. ChildofMidnight (talk) 22:55, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

The article (from the first paragraph—I'm too cheap to pay the four bucks) appears to report on what several doctors stated, but doesn't necessarily embrace the conclusion. Interestingly, the following day reported that "Shellfish as Cause Of Hepatitis Here Discounted by City". I think without understanding the overall sense of the article is likely to run afoul of WP:UNDUE. Bongomatic 16:07, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

It's not in the article any more so no problem with undue. I had reservations about putting it in originally. But that source is considered reliable by Wikipedia policy, despite all the evidence to the contrary. I agree we should be VERY careful about using anything [that we haven't actually read—Bongomatic 16:20, 2 June 2009 (UTC)] from that tabloid rag. ChildofMidnight (talk) 16:11, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

I disagree with CoM about many things, but hope we can make friends about clams. The "Ipswich" steamed clams, with the big peelable necks, are very good with butter, and proper fried clams, with the crunchy stomachs, are good with tartar sauce. ("Neck" and "Stomach" aren't necessarily anatomically correct here, but true clam fans will understand.) And nobody could possibly object to clams browned with lots of crumbs, parsley, and garlic. PhGustaf (talk) 15:22, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Indeed. I'm leaning towards a separate article on steamers (the clam and the dish) per Orlady's suggestions, and sections in the steamed clams article to include the notable varieties and preparations. Bigger than bacon? No. But surely we can dig up some good content on clams so they aren't shut out of the action. ChildofMidnight (talk) 15:54, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

The Boston, or Ipswitch, clams have distinctive necks with inedible sheathes. The routine was to put these creatures into a tub with fresh water and cornmeal in the hope that they would disgorge any disgusting stuff they'd et whilst feasting on the corn. Boston clams are not, though, the same as the ones that show up in the Tadich Grill's cioppino, nor the ones sushi chefs have so much fun with. PhGustaf (talk) 18:58, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Bacon?

The mass of bacon-related articles you've written astounds me; I really didn't think there was that much to say. Barnstar from me if you can get anything about vegetarian bacon on the main page- I've not had bacon in a long time... J Milburn (talk) 21:55, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

CoM has had a dream of an article about fakon Since February. Although I tried, all I could get up to the main page was turkey bacon--close but no cigar. --kelapstick (talk) 22:25, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

This comment seems to use a semicolon very appropriately, and I find it very decorative. Doc throws those things around willy-nilly. I'd like to see brackets be used more. Would that interfere with formatting on Wikipedia? ChildofMidnight (talk) 05:40, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

Articles for deletion nomination of List of bacon dishes

I have nominated List of bacon dishes, an article that you created, for deletion. I do not think that this article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and have explained why at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of bacon dishes. Your opinions on the matter are welcome at that same discussion page; also, you are welcome to edit the article to address these concerns. Thank you for your time.

Please contact me if you're unsure why you received this message. Samuell Lift me up or put me down 22:46, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Wow. I didn't know that was there. Pending AfD survival I suggest formatting in the same manner as List of cakes.--kelapstick (talk) 23:01, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

I don't like the country of origin column. Just leave it open for Casp to add photos and move along. Trouble maker. ChildofMidnight (talk) 05:40, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

The origin is nice to sort by, given the handy sortability that I gave it. --kelapstick (talk) 17:13, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

I can't wait to see how you determine the country of origin for all those dishes. I think it would be better to mention the origin (when known) in the description section. Simplicity my friend, simplicity. Also, I would put the photo column after the dish name (per MOS). Lovely photos. Nice work young man. Have you had a look at the Canadian Shake 'n Bake ad yet? ChildofMidnight (talk) 17:17, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

Put the origin when known, I am reworking the images I have added, had them in the wrong column...doh.--kelapstick (talk) 17:27, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

Spectrum Culture

Thanks for the response, could you do me a huge favor and check over the references. I've attempted to include independent sources, especially in the Franz Nicolay part. If they shouldn't be there, would you let me know or delete them.

Thanks a lot Joe hockey14 (talk) 04:45, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

You oughtta know better . . .

. . . than to make this kind of edit no matter how true. Bongomatic 04:58, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

Seeing as CoM didn't make that edit, I am having trouble figuring out what brought you to their talk page.— Dædαlus ^Contribs 05:00, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

Funny. Don't make jokes though Bongo. They crucify you for that kind of thing here. Humor isn't quite as loathed as copy-editing, but it's close. My spelling corrections and asking an editor not to make personal attacks against me, to stop refactoring my comments, to focus on article content on article talk pages and to stay off my talk page are a large part of the Arbcom evidence that's being used against me. These are high crimes and incivilities! (edit conflictx2-see you are already causing trouble!) ChildofMidnight (talk) 05:06, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

Is ChildofMidnight a "they"? CoM, is your real name ChildrenofMidnight? Bongomatic 05:04, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

p.s. I have taken to highlighting the offensive, refactoring beyond recognition nature of copy-editing in my edit summaries to make it easier for those supporting my community ban. Courteous. To a fault, baby. To a fault. Bongomatic 05:10, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

When someone isn't sure of gender, using "their" is an easy out my amigo in crime. It could also be a reference to me and my army of socks.

What does "refactoring beyond recognition nature of copy-editing in my edit summaries" mean? Have you been drinking? First Doc and now you. I guess anything to numb the pain. How long do I have to wait before I can run for Admin again? ChildofMidnight (talk) 05:13, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

Hmmm . . . not really the most elegant formulation. I meant that when I copy edit another editors talk page contributions (recently, "to" to "too"), I will use an edit summary like "refactored [x]'s comments to change the meaning" or something like that, just to make sure people know what I'm up to. Yeah, and I don't like "they" for singular. Almost always incredibly easy to avoid without resorting to gender-specific language (in this case "their talk page" → "this talk page" would have worked—no offence, Daedalus, I know it's accepted usage, just not by me). Bongomatic 05:21, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

Indeed. Good points. But I think it did come off a bit harsh. But you do sober up fast young man. I can understand you just fine now. No response on my query though, I see. But I guess I need to wait a couple more weeks? What's shaking in Bongo's world? Anything exciting? Where are you stationed these days? New page patrol? Or have they got you over at AfD? ChildofMidnight (talk) 05:26, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

You can run any time, but after K'stick's ordeal, do you want to ever? I'm stationed mainly off-wiki for the time being, having actual work to do for a change. The perceived harshness was perhaps an unreasonably hard trout-slap, as prior to the referenced comment, I had made eight signed contributions to this talk page (unarchived), and had been mentioned an additional five times, so the question as to what brought me here seemed ill-conceived. Bongomatic 05:44, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

Maybe Daedalus is simply outraged at the incomprehensible proposals made by arbcom to punish editors who have been confronted by a wall of incivility and grotesque neutral point of view violations by biased partisans (who get off with warnings) and wants to have my back and show his support. I can't blame anyone for wanting to come to my defense at this difficult time when censorship, bias, incivility, wikilawyering, intimidation, abuse of process, pov pushing, and halitosis are being embraced with both arms by our very own arbcom committee. ChildofMidnight (talk) 05:52, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

DYK for National Pig Day

On June 3, 2009, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article National Pig Day, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Royalbroil 15:49, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

DYK for Stegt Flæsk

On June 3, 2009, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Stegt Flæsk, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Giants27 21:49, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

If you get a minute

Can you upload and add these to turkey bacon, uncooked and cooked, unless you can find a better cooked one. --kelapstick (talk) 23:30, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the information. Alot to go throughKeithBeltham (talk) 05:22, 4 June 2009 (UTC) Appreciate it.

Minimalism is not really CoM's game. Did you get those pictures uploaded? Do I have to do them?--kelapstick (talk) 23:19, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

Important perspective

I'm sure you've seen it, but if not I think you'll appreciate this opinion. Some might say it is equivalent to WP:ILIKEIT, but I think of it, rather, as the vanguard of a new topic-specific guideline. Bongomatic 23:36, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

Hello, ChildofMidnight. You have new messages at Glane23's talk page.
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File copyright problem with File:Maja dessert.jpg

File Copyright problem

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If you have any questions, please feel free to ask them at the media copyright questions page. Thanks again for your cooperation. (ESkog)^(Talk) 04:34, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

Bacon spam

To all members of the bacon cabal: Did you know that there is a theory that the Voynich manuscript might be the long lost Book of Bacon ? SpinningSpark 11:21, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, ChildofMidnight. You have new messages at Emmette Hernandez Coleman's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 16:40, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

a new assignment

When all else fails, turn to CoM... Someone needs to have a look at List of wine-producing countries and the recent edits. Content was added with some questionable data (China), content was removed without edit summary... I don't know what's authoritative here and what's not, and it's not a good article to begin with. Wikipedia:WikiProject Wine seems pretty stagnant, so I was hoping maybe you could mobilize the troops, now that the bacon rush is over. Later, Drmies (talk) 16:49, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

I don't drink rotten fruit. How are you Doc? What's shaking? I was reading an old WSJ and saw a story about European refugees in the 1930s teaching at historically black colleges in the south and I thought of you. There's an exhibit on it (or was) in NYC. Interesting. ChildofMidnight (talk) 16:52, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

Today is a special day: happy Saint Boniface day! Drmies (talk) 16:58, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

I thought it was Donut/ Doughnut day? [4]. ChildofMidnight (talk) 17:00, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

Woop! Not only is it the day for a Saint who lived round my way, but it's also doughnut day. A-M-A-Z-I-N-G. Bigger digger (talk) 20:44, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

DYK for Maple bacon donut

On June 5, 2009, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Maple bacon donut, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Giants27 21:49, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

Bacon rolling papers

I just clicked on the source and it came up fine. It's just a link to the manufacturers page listing flavors. When I saw the deletion earlier I did a search on bacon rolling papers and a bunch of hits showed up. There is a wiki page on Juicy Jay's with some info. --Weetoddid (talk) 01:32, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

The link works for me now. I don't know what was up. "Sizzling bacon" rolling papers? It's a strange world. ChildofMidnight (talk) 01:43, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

Log cabin

Have you see this? [5] LadyofShalott 02:56, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

What would Abraham Lincoln say? I'm going to stick with Gingerbread houses. This may be the beginning of the end... This takes bacon too far. ChildofMidnight (talk) 03:25, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

DYK for Seduced by Bacon

On June 6, 2009, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Seduced by Bacon, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Giants27 03:49, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

DYK for Joanna Pruess

On June 6, 2009, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Joanna Pruess, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Giants27 03:49, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

• Hmm. Didn't get one of these. Shows you how important big-whig editors like ChildofMidnight think the work of properly placing references in templates is. Ha! Drmies (talk) 18:02, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

The complaint department is up the street. Thanks for supersizing the refs buddy! You the man. What's shaking this weekend? Sunny here. I need to get outside. ChildofMidnight (talk) 18:11, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

Beautiful here too. I've already mowed (part of) the lawn. Grilled a chicken yesterday--for today, it's endives (with ham and cheese). Oh, for lunch I had the best sandwich in the world: a BLT! on sourdough. And I'm trying to put the moves on Mrs. Drmies, but her phone rang (of course). Drmies (talk) 19:03, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

Please revisit The Mandrake Root

I do not think "merge" is even worth a consideration. Your comments and suggestions toward further improvements will be welcome. Schmidt, ^{MICHAEL Q.} 06:34, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

If the play were any good wouldn't they make it into a movie on the big screen? Or at least one of those fuddy duddy British tv shows? I don't really care for plays. And it sounds like the kind of thing they put on PBS for people like Doc who drink fermented grape juice. I thought my comments were pretty fair, really. I said "if" it's not independently notable it could be merged. You can't have everything Mikey. Plus the original was made in 1518. Isn't there a policy about things getting less notable after a while? It hardly seems topical and relevant any more. I did watch the end of Robocop in Spanish tonight. Pretty gruesome, but some interesting thematic elements. I wonder if anyone will bring it to the stage... When is Doc going to be done with our script? ChildofMidnight (talk) 06:46, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

Pehaps Mandrake Root needs to be disambiguated. ChildofMidnight (talk) 18:26, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

Fun

This was fun: Dahil Sa Iyo. Drmies (talk) 17:59, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

You deserve some suman as a reward. Nice article. Good job. ChildofMidnight (talk) 18:15, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

FYI

Thought you just might be interested in this. I don't know if you and Titch were close, but I know you have a heart as big as they come. It literally sent chills up and down my spine, and thought you may want to say hi. — Ched :  ?  05:20, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Oddball!

		The Oddball Barnstar
		I don't know why I had instance to type "rubbernecking" into the search box, but was pleasantly surprised by our decent coverage of the subject. Please accept this "Oddball Barnstar" in appreciation for your genesis of this article. Suggestion: Try to find something on those "blinds" or "tarps" that some states erect to discourage rubbernecking. Keep up the good work. =) –xenotalk 19:09, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

• I remembered! See Wikipedia:Don't be a rubbernecker. This essay isn't at all pointed at you, but I thought you might be interested having recently penned the article. –xeno^talk 13:17, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Thanks very much for the barnstar. It seemed like a worthy subject for an article. It could probably be expanded. Cheers. ChildofMidnight (talk) 19:28, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

What are your thoughts on merging Gapers block into rubbernecking? I tucked a link in there but they might do better as a single article, yes? –xeno^talk 22:58, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Hey Xeno. I saw you added mention of Gapers block to the article on rubbernecking. I've never heard that term, I thought it was some kind of Britishism until I read the stub on it. A merge might be okay, but they are related and not the same thing, so I could see a case being made for keeping them separate (especially if there are reliable sources for gapers block. Are there? Also, I saw on the talk page that it should maybe be gaper's or gapers' block which seems correct to me....) I'm good either way.

Soon I'm going to be limited to one revert a week, it seems, because Arbcom sees fit to punish those who try to fix our Obama coverage with the multiple perspective that NPOV requires. :) So I'm going to have to get used to living with articles in all sorts of states that I don't think are appropriate as I won't be able to do much about it. ChildofMidnight (talk) 01:07, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

There's no sources for the gaper's block, though I'm sure one could be found. which is why I thought it might better function as a short mention in rubbernecking. I agree one of the apostrophe versions is better. –xeno^talk 01:12, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

"Britishism"... Eurgh, you can keep that word on your side of the pond along with winningest. Bigger digger (talk) 12:37, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Oh, thank goodness it doesn't have an article, you'll have to go to wikt:winningest instead. Sadly rubber-necking is quite a popular pastime over here as well. Bigger digger (talk) 12:40, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Danger Mouse

I don't think a DAB is needed right now, although I question which one is the primary usage. There are only two and they hatnote each other right now. Unless there is a third Danger Mouse (could there be...).--kelapstick (talk) 18:41, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Re: Falsehoods

I'll make this short, since I can tell you're probably fed up with me by now. Hypothetically, sure I could change my votes, and I am thinking about changing on the templating finding, since we both agree it's a stretch. However, even if I were to do that, the consensus on the proposed decision so far seems clear. If the remedies against you were too harsh or the findings incorrect, they would not be passing, and if Wikidemon needed a heavier sanction, it would have been proposed by now. Obviously the Obama articles aren't perfect, but if this can stop the use of the talk page as a forum, prevent a future second case, and see where best to proceed. No proposed decision is gonna satisfy both parties, and it's rare to satisfy either party for that matter. I'm pretty much done speaking of the arbcom case for now, i've said and explained all I could. Wizardman 00:10, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

And to note something I missed, your reverts on the block started at the end of May 6 and extended to the end of May 7, hence why you weren't seeing all reverts there. Wizardman 00:15, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

Two edits in a 24 hour period and then a full 24 hours earlier I had also made two edits of the same content. There were dozens and dozens, if not more, edits inbetween. There was discussion on the talk page inbetween. And if you look at those edits in the context of how many edits I make on a day and on that particular day, it's absolutely 100% totally clear that I wasn't intending to edit war and that I wasn't attempting to win a conflict by reverting [6] and that I wasnt' focused on that article, and that it wasn't an active dispute any longer.

What is clear is that Wikidemon was unhappy with my posting on the ACORN talk page, a totally separate article. And when he didn't get his way he said he was going to ANI [7]. And after posting there he dug up these edits because he thought someone might go after me, even though it was on an unrelated article and didn't involve him at all, and he got lucky because the admins reacting didn't properly investigate. He's treating Wikipedia as a battleground, and so far you're rewarding him for it. ChildofMidnight (talk) 00:40, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

As I've said before, I acknowledge that you do good article work elsewhere. An editing restriction and topic ban is not going to prevent you from working on the other types of article you usually work on. You keep saying I need to "get the evidence right", yet after looking through it again it seems fine to me. I'm certainly not rewarding wikidemon by any stretch of the imagination, I'm just not seeing the type of edit-warring in the evidence that other parties are guilty of. I've been patient with you, but I should need to re-re-read the evidence all over again (and i'd come up with the same conclusion anyway). What you want is either a truckload of sanctions on wikidemon, who you're in conflict with, or for you to be exonerated. I have no plans to do either. No further reply is necessary. Wizardman 20:16, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

Deletion review for List of the Tonight Show with Conan O'Brien episodes

An editor has asked for a deletion review of List of the Tonight Show with Conan O'Brien episodes. Because you closed the deletion discussion for this page, speedily deleted it, or otherwise were interested in the page, you might want to participate in the deletion review. Tavix |  Talk  15:56, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

You wanna show me anywhere on the AfD where I said I didn't like the list? As you said, "Nom's reasoning and those of deleters are largely based on not liking it" CTJF83Talk 17:47, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

You indicated there were too many episodes. That's a not liking it rationale that isn't based in policy, in my opinion. ChildofMidnight (talk) 17:56, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

Please be more careful in the future, when assessing my thoughts. There is a difference between liking/not liking something, and proposing an article for deletion because it isn't encyclopedic. CTJF83Talk 19:20, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

Ass Kissing

Hah, the header worried me for a bit. That could work, and the notability for the phrase is certainly established. My main problem was with the suggestion that "swabian salute" was a neologism meaning "kiss my arse" - the validity of the "kiss my arse" was not in question. If that idea works, go with it :). Ironholds (talk) 19:07, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

Leck mich im Arsch (phrase) or something? I think the Mozart work will always be more notable. Ironholds (talk) 19:23, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

RE: SPI

Sorry, was on wikibreak, didn't mean to never respond, as to the user you are concerned about, are there particular diffs you are concerned about?— Dædαlus ^Contribs 21:32, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

Hey Daed. Actually, my request wasn't about a problem editor at all. An editor was interested in some sort of SPI clerking (I can't remember the terminology). They had received an unhelpful reply from a clerk after expressing interest, and I thought you might know some other more helpful clerks who would be able to offer some direction. ChildofMidnight (talk) 21:38, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

Tiptoety, for sure.— Dædαlus ^Contribs 06:45, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Thanks. I'll drop Tiptoety a note. ChildofMidnight (talk) 16:05, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Bacon, egg and cheese sandwich

I got particularly excited when I saw Bacon, egg and cheese sandwich at DYK. Then got all worked up because the noms weren't part of the Bacon cabal... I see you've extended the hand of friendship to them at the AfD. I particularly enjoyed it's like saying Kleenex is notable, but tissue isn't and any argument that argues WP:CSB Keep referenced, and the first steps in countering systemic bias against food on WP. Casliber (talk · contribs) 09:50, 5 June 2009 (UTC) is a winner in my book. I salute you sir! Bigger digger (talk) 13:21, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Bacon, egg, and cheese work better in a tortilla than on bread. Is there a Breakfast burrito article yet? (It comes up blue) PhGustaf (talk) 19:20, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Breakfast burrito is covered in Burrito (nicely with a targeted redirect to its own section which is always an elegant solution). Merging the BECS to breakfast sandwich, if it was done in a similar way, would probably fly. I suppose bacon, egg and cheese could also be its own topic incorporating the various applications. Or it could stay as a stand alone sandwich, but ham and sausage might feel spurned. ChildofMidnight (talk) 19:30, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

I see there was quite the fuss about the Egg McMuffin there I see, I got confused the first time I ordered one in Nevada and it had ham ("Canadian Bacon") on it.--kelapstick (talk) 19:35, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Was it like getting change in Canadian coin at a toll booth? Do they have toll booths out where you are? Freaking loonies! I don't think I've ever had one. The fast food version seems kind of gross. Was it good? I've been impressed with Arby's food, so when they finish construction and reopen nearby I'll have to check it out (with bacon of course) there. ChildofMidnight (talk) 19:41, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Nah we don't have toll booths here, gambling takes care of our roads. Even in Canada I never had to go over one (with the exception of the Confederation Bridge), although the 407 is a toll highway they just send you a bill, no need to stop. What's wrong with dollar coins (or $2 coins for that matter)? The US has been trying to implement them for years but doesn't have the stones to remove the bill from circulation, despite the enormous cost benefit (in Canada the average lifespan of a $2 bill was 1 year, a coin lasts +50). I suppose what can be expected from the same outfit that doesn't even produce enough $2 bills to move their status from collector's item to currency? We have an Arby's where we are now, but I haven't been since we went there, but they are awesome. --kelapstick (talk) 20:05, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Oh yeah, if you want to try awesome breakfast sandwiches with bacon try the one from Tim Hortons, or the bagel BELT (bacon egg lettuce tomato), the two things I miss the most...--kelapstick (talk) 20:06, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

What is Tim Hortons? Ha ha. Don't have them in LA as far as I can tell. Is it back to being a stand alone Canadian company now or is it still part of Wendy's? Coins of all sorts are fine as long as you don't get coins from foreign countries that you can't use and have to try passing off on someone else after the toll collector drops them on you. might not be as much of a problem now. Isn't it like one canadian dollar for 10 or 20 U.S. dollars? Who knew that unlimited gov't. spending wouldn't work out well... ChildofMidnight (talk) 20:10, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

What happened was Ron Joyce sold Tim Hortons to Wendy's, but used the proceeds (~$600 million) to buy shares in Wendy's so he would be a majority stakeholder, ingenious isn't it. Reminds me of what Christian Bale did in Batman Begins. I think today 1 USD = 1.09 CAD, but I could be wrong. What happened with the toll booth, the collector mistake a loonie for one of your presidential dollars? Another argument in favour of the Amero.--kelapstick (talk) 20:17, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Used to get a lot of Canadian quarters as change. And going through a toll booth you don't notice until later. I don't know if it still happens because we don't have tolls. Everything is free here. ChildofMidnight (talk) 20:18, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Right, I had to go through two in LA on the way to Carlsbad (GPS took us the wrong way) when we went to Legoland. --kelapstick (talk) 20:22, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Those are just for tourists from Nevada. The evangelicals are passing out million dollar bills with Obama's visage on them. May come to pass soon the way things are going. ChildofMidnight (talk) 20:25, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

<-- Wow, can we cite this conversation in off topic or wikt:off topic? Will these be red or blue? The suspense... Bigger digger (talk) 08:24, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Hmmm, might have to AfD off topic? Is that a dicdef I see before me? Bigger digger (talk) 08:35, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

This off topic discussion is disrupting my talk page. Please focus on topic discussions of off topics off of off topic threads that are on topic for my talk page. Alternatively, this may need discussion on my talk's talk page. ChildofMidnight (talk) 16:05, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Universality of patriarchy

Please see my reply at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Universality of patriarchy. Kaldari (talk) 18:58, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Posted another reply. Kaldari (talk) 16:06, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

P.S. - Thanks for pitching in at the patriarchy article. It needs all the help it can get :) Kaldari (talk) 16:28, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

lady of shallot

Sorry if my answer here seemed uncivil. I didn't quite understand what you were getting at and was trying to be funny, hoping it would stir you into telling me more. Gwen Gale (talk) 21:42, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

You were perfectly civil in that conversation. I was referring to your statements responding to some of your critics. I know some of them are being aggressive, but you're an admin and you're expected to use restraint and to defuse situations rather than adding fuel to the fire.

Some of your comments seemed rude to me. Like the take a nap bit, for example. But I guess we all have different senses of humor, and I know from personal experience that people misunderstand things and take them out of context, which I'm not trying to do. But my bottom line feeling is that you are still holding tightly to the idea that you're right in the end. Which is fine, but if you're not understanding the concerns from editors who have been on the receiving end of aggressive block and who have had their block logs used against them, I think you would do well to consider their perspective.

Calling someone an ass isn't very civil, but neither is blocking someone when they're moaning on their own talk page, expressing frustrations, or just venting that they're pissed off. Know what I mean? Some of the bullshit that goes on here really sucks. And I'm afraid the lack of restraint and good judgment that I see from some admins is a real contributor to it. ChildofMidnight (talk) 21:53, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Greece-Crete Relations

Just got back. I didn't see anything unusual about bilateral relations. Maybe the debates dropped off my watchlist. Or maybe I wasn't watching the interesting ones.

After 10 days of careful research, I can report that the Cretans do not know how to make a Greek salad. No lettuce! Only tomatoes, olives and onions. They don't even break up the feta for you, just stick a slab of it on top and drench the whole thing with lemon oil, herbs and vinegar. Also, they don't know how to make fish & chips. All they do is throw a fish on the grill, head and tail, skin and bones, the works, brush it with lemon and oil, serve it up. The poor fish is staring at you, reproachfully, all through the meal, which tends to last quite a long time. And the chips are likely to be deep-fried zucchini or something like that, not potatoes at all. And white wine instead of Coke. No hamburgers, only roast lamb or goat stew. It was rough. But I may write an article about Lakki. Aymatth2 (talk) 01:13, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

I've added Lakki to my watchlist and will be ready with the appropriate speedy deletion and AfD tags. That cite isn't a reliable source, and the photo on it could well have been doctored. I'm sure you're aware that we can't rely on your original research that this "town" exists. Unless the New York Times has written about it extensively I don't see why we would want to include it. Plus I was disappointed it was a geographic rather than a culinary subject. A very poor showing in all respects. ChildofMidnight (talk) 06:50, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

I added a couple of pictures. Nice place, but it takes strong nerves to drive down the side roads. Maybe I will do a culinary article too. Sardines on toast has a whole new meaning for me now. Aymatth2 (talk) 18:06, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

hey!

when you're done causing trouble, you can see that the conspiracy to remove Obama from everything on Wikipedia, including the Seven-layer salad, is working. What is this world coming to? Drmies (talk) 06:18, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

I guess they didn't feel this particular linkage was beneficial. I'm encouraged by the scrutiny that important article is receiving.

You can rest assured that Wizardman and Wikidemon will continue their vigilance in censoring and distorting our Obama coverage wherever necessary so it includes only the most positive aspects. Anyone trying to provide balance or alternative perspectives will be blocked. We're not allowed to have any criticism of Obama anywhere on Wikipedia, and for the exceptions where some controversy is allowed to exist, it can't be linked to. ChildofMidnight (talk) 06:38, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

• As they say in Dutch, overdrijven is ook een vak! Drmies (talk) 15:41, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

I love that Flowanda removed the Obama phrase before removing the other names. How's that bias against people-who-enjoy-the-seven-layer-salad-but-aren't-POTUS going? Bigger digger (talk) 08:31, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

That's nothing compared the attack on glorified rice. When will the cover-ups end? The truth must be told. We shall overcome...ChildofMidnight (talk) 16:05, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Patriarchy

The last section of the patriarchy article is about whether or not any forms of social organization other than patriarchy have existed. Obviously, it could use some expansion, but the subject matter of this section is basically "universality of patriarchy". In fact, you could reasonably rename that section to "Universality of patriarchy" if you wanted and merge in the 2 relevant sentences from Universality of patriarchy. Kaldari (talk) 17:12, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

I mentioned it with a wikilink and modified that section per my whims. :) I'm not in favor of a merge, but if others feel strongly about it then they can streamroll me, as often happens here. :) Might makes right, or something. ChildofMidnight (talk) 17:26, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Vietnamese

User:DHN is the most knowledgeable Vietnamese(-American) editor. Badagnani (talk) 19:24, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Ched's RFA

Nice comment. I just wanted to reward gracious and still humorous writing. tedder (talk) 21:47, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Seconded. You win at RFA. –xeno^talk 22:10, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

How did I miss this section...I agree, most awesome, but I think the phrase is Baptism by fire, unless you were going for the secular approach (or is it non-secular, I always forget). Have you seen what is going on at Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Paid editing? You want drama....--kelapstick (talk) 21:49, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the nice comments.

This one's for you K-stick [8].

And to reply to your ramblings, I find the baptism by fire thing confusing. A baptism is usually in water. So then if it's by fire, that makes sense to me and I see flames. But then it means fire as in bullets? There are too many mixed metaphors. And I was trying to stay with the forged thing by going with fire in that sense.

My sense of snark/ humor was less appreciated in the ANI thread on whether an Admin calling an editor an asshole is okay. But you can't win them all!

Secular is without religion. That's what those immoral Dutch heathens are into. And if you read their page you'lll see that even their alma mater has been caught giving away textbooks to athletes. Shocking! :)

I'm not sure on the Canadians. I'm still waiting to get their opinion of the Shake 'n' Bake Canadian advertisement video I added to that article... I guess they're spiritual more than religious.

In my doubt I can't believe

Like a wave tossed where the wind blows

Tears of faith temper my soul

Just another trial by fire

Just another trial by fire

How appropriate that the phrase is used as a song and album title for this ballad loving band. Ched Rocks! ChildofMidnight (talk) 22:34, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Oh and Kelapstick you might enjoy this RfA [9]. More my style. ChildofMidnight (talk) 22:43, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Best RfA...EVER.--kelapstick (talk) 23:05, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Well, I know the !vote doesn't look good at the moment for "Credit", but I think everyone should encourage this new user to continue with his/her contributions to the 'pedia. ;) — Ched :  ?  03:10, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Hosting

By all means, feel free to do that. I only volunteered for this because it seemed necessary and no one else was apparently willing to do so. (Minor note, to preserve GFDL you need to actually move it rather than cut and paste). JoshuaZ (talk) 02:22, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Of course that's ok. And if I have an issue with your draft, I could if I always wanted to fork it and we could present two separate drafts for DRV. (I doubt I'll do that however. If someone else is going to take time to work on this article then my presence is much less needed). JoshuaZ (talk) 02:35, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

User:ChildofMidnight/David Boothroyd

I am now hosting this if anyone wants to make suggestions or give me hell. Maybe give me a while to work it up according to my usual "standards" before telling me what a bad job I've done. Cheers. ChildofMidnight (talk) 02:43, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Also, you may want to talk to User:Jayron32 who was the closer of the DRV and who had agreed to the original 7 day time window to see how he thinks this should alter that MfD deadline. JoshuaZ (talk) 02:56, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

I think the article looks pretty okay. I'm going to post the additional sources I saw on the article's talk page. But I've about had my fill with it.

Feel free to proof read and go to work on it as long as you don't change anything in a way that I don't like. :) Is there another source for: "Boothroyd worked for John Battle, MP for Leeds West, and was as a research assistant for Ian Lucas, MP for Wrexham, after the 2001 general election." Because that's the first cited bit and both sources relate to the Wikipedia thing which would be nice to alter somehow with other sources. I don't know how to move that content and still be logical and chronological. ChildofMidnight (talk) 04:40, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Conditions of userfication...

Since you have taken over hosting the userfied Boothroyd article, I thought you should be made explicitly aware that I gave JoshuaZ one week to bring the article into compliance with community expectations. An MFD will be started on or about June 15 to judge community consensus over keeping this. If the discussion yeilds a keep consensus, we can move it to the mainspace. Given the sensitive nature of this, please tread carefully here... --Jayron32.talk.contribs 03:07, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Yeah no worries. Do you know if the subject is openly gay or not? I've seen it reported, but I don't know if that was a concern of his or anyone elses as far as it being stated in the article.

Once I'm done reworking the article, can I put it in mainspace? What is the process going to be? I don't think it's the same article that was there before so my understanding is that would be normal practice for a substantially new article. I will certainly run it by you and hopefully Jehochman before actually doing any kind of move. I have enough problems without engaging in any rash article creations on this particular subject. :) But I'd like to know what the plan is, if there is one. Oh and I'd also like to know if it's possible to at least haev semi-protection and perhaps pro-active full protection so an edit war doesn't break out? I think changes can be worked out collegially and collaboratively on the talk page unless there is a particular BLP issue or something. ChildofMidnight (talk) 03:14, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Given the initial BLP concerns, I thought it more prudent to wait to move it until after the community discussion. I will start an MFD discussion on the userfied article, and probably place general notifications to anyone who commented on any of the first 3 AFDs or the DRV as to the MFD. Does that sound reasonable? --Jayron32.talk.contribs 03:24, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

My intention is to address any BLP concerns before the article is recreated. I don't think the existence of the article itself or the inclusion of the Wikipedia "incident" (which has been reported in reliable sources) constitutes a BLP concern if it is included appropriately. So I would prefer to follow standard procedure.

My concern is that an MfD and notification of the limited group of participants in the earlier proceedings is too narrow. I don't think this article should be treated differently than other BLPs and I see no reason why normal procedure shouldn't be followed. Aren't substantially new articles usually recreated and given a full AfD hearing? I think that's the best way to determine notability. I would like to see BLP concerns resolved on the appropriate boards before the article is recreated, in so far as possible. And as I said, I would be happy and in fact prefer, for it to be protected once it's reintroduced so that editing will be deliberative and nothing inappropriate will be introduced in haste. But I'm okay with it being reintroduced without protection and watched closely, if that's a better approach. ChildofMidnight (talk) 03:34, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

I can understand all of that, however up till this point, this BLP has been treated differently than most BLPs. I may not agree that it should have been, but I cannot undo what has been done. Occasionally, a unique problem requires a unique solution, and the unusual set of circumstances surrounding the recent history of this article seems to require special care. If you would like, I could IAR and nominate this at AFD instead of MFD; since the former does get more eyes than the latter; being a userfied article it technically does not qualify for AFD; however since the intent is for it to be an article, perhaps that venue would better serve our purposes? --Jayron32.talk.contribs 12:56, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Does anyone know how to turn of my internet explorer feature where it occasionally cuts and pastes switching around stuff I'm highlighting while I'm working on it? No snark from the Mac users who can only manage one button on their mouse (clicker). Thanks. ChildofMidnight (talk) 04:39, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

That's not a feature, that's your jittery hand selecting text, unclicking, then clicking and dragging the highlighted text to a new place. Sorry if this is a real-life problem for you and I'm being insensitive... Bigger digger (talk) 11:48, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

If this is a real problem check your mouse settings, although this future is not set up by default, meaning you or someone might have changed it. Regards, --The Magnificent Clean-keeper (talk) 13:36, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

I checked the mouse control panel set-up, but I didn't see anything regarding using turning off the switcheroo cut and paste option. I don't want to be able to highlight and drag text without selecting cut and copy and paste and all that. Jittery or not. This PC has a mind of its own. Or bigger digger is remotely interfering in my editing process which seems a distinct possibility. :)ChildofMidnight (talk) 16:35, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Just make sure "ClickLock" is un-checked. Seems to me the most simple answer and solution to the problem. Good luck.--The Magnificent Clean-keeper (talk) 17:23, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Roger, Roger. It is unclicked. But I just did a test and I can still click and drag text. Is there a way to turn off this feature created by Bill Gates to cause me personal aggravation? ChildofMidnight (talk) 17:31, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

The Lady of Shalott painting

Hey, you were surprised that Gwen Gale and I have the same image on our user pages. It just occurred to me to look and see how many others have the same picture. Take a look at the File links section of File:JWW TheLadyOfShallot 1888.jpg. LadyofShalott 05:22, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Wow. That is a lot. I still find it a very curious choice of poem and artwork. But I like to keep a very low profile so I'm not asking any more follow-up questions! Aren't you supposed to be out partying, or are you watching via mirror reflecting what's going on outside your window? ChildofMidnight (talk) 05:30, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Although, they definitely do not all show the picture. I've only clicked on a couple of those pages, but I have no idea where it is they supposedly link to it. Oh well. Not sure why you think I'm the partying type, but I'm about to head to bed. I have to work tomorrow. LadyofShalott 05:34, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Most of those LoS image links are to editors who show the fantasy user box. Cheers, Gwen Gale (talk) 10:52, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

MfD nomination of User:ChildofMidnight/David Boothroyd

User:ChildofMidnight/David Boothroyd, a page you substantially contributed to, has been nominated for deletion. Your opinions on the matter are welcome; please participate in the discussion by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:ChildofMidnight/David Boothroyd and please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes (~~~~). You are free to edit the content of User:ChildofMidnight/David Boothroyd during the discussion but should not remove the miscellany for deletion template from the top of the page; such a removal will not end the deletion discussion. Thank you. rootology (C)(T) 13:08, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

• Jeesh Root. Not only do you go after an article being worked on with permission in userspace, which is against all precedent and appropriate procedure, but you go on to make all sorts of misrepresentations, personal attacks, and assumptions of bad faith. Not your finest hour I'd say. ChildofMidnight (talk) 16:28, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Obscurity (recording)

Do you really think a bootleg is notable? The nominator and I have searched and found no sources. Albums ≠ inherently notable. Ten Pound Hammer, his otters and a clue-bat • ^{(Many otters • One bat • One hammer)} 13:32, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Well, you're probably right. But I like Pink Floyd and I was hoping the content could be merged somewhere so it wasn't lost forever. Money, it's a gas. ChildofMidnight (talk) 16:27, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Reporting ChildofMidnight on Administrators' noticeboard

Hello, ChildofMidnight. This message is being sent to inform you that there currently is a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you.--Johnnyturk888 (talk) 16:11, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Using a trout safely

When wielding a trout against another editor as you did here it is helpful to explain your point of view. It is very little help being hit by a fish if it does not come with an explanation of why it was deserved. Even without a trout involved it is helpful to explain your point of view at a MfD and not simply say Keep. Perhaps you could enlighten us at that debate to the reasoning behind your position and fish swinging? Chillum 16:36, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

I felt that the reasons why the nom is in bad form were already covered sufficiently by the the comments already in the discussion, if not wholly self-evident. I'm not sure there will be receptivity to further explication at this point, and I seem to have enough on my plate. So I'm going to keep my "indication of preferred outcome" short and sweet. You'll notice I suggested a trouting rather than carrying one out. Fish stink is a bother to get rid of and I like to keep my hands clean. Cheers. ChildofMidnight (talk) 16:47, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

That is your prerogative, but please know that opinions on MfDs expressed without an accompanying argument are often given little to no weight. Peace. Chillum 16:52, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

I understand your point and I trust my opinions will be given the appropriate weight they deserve (however much or little that is). Have a good weekend Chillum. ChildofMidnight (talk) 16:57, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Reggae Festival

I'm going to be jamming. So I'll see you all soon. Don't wait up. ChildofMidnight (talk) 17:55, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Wow!

I see that your friend has been blocked.--The Legendary Sky Attacker 20:11, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Better him than me. I certainly tried to direct him in a more constructive direction...

How are you doing Sky? Are you cooking up any interesting articles? ChildofMidnight (talk) 01:02, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

Well, this month, Let's Go To San Francisco, Mutumuna Falls and Ravana Falls (all currently under construction). They all still need developing but it is a start. The waterfalls articles need pictures and one of them has a problem with a "blacklisted" external link. I still like vandalism patrolling more than creating articles though...

Hey, just a personal question, are you a fan of this band?--The Legendary Sky Attacker 06:50, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

I prefere Tina Turner. She's simply the best. The waterfall article says it's wide, but only says how high it is. ChildofMidnight (talk) 18:55, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

re Sharing the joy

I think I will respectfully decline this offer at this point in time, though you may find some additional relevant sources at Politico's Guide to the History of British Political Parties and at United Kingdom Election Results. Cirt (talk) 03:32, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

Okay, I shall think about it but that's my take at this point in time. If I were to write an article on the individual, I probably would not want that thing moved into my userspace but instead I'd just start a whole new one in my userspace at some point. Cirt (talk) 03:41, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

Château of Vauvenargues

Your edits to this article were unsourced and completely incorrect. They have been reverted. In fact what I wrote is not quite finished - it is a stub, which will be the lede a more detailed article. Please do not edit like this in future without sources. It is completely unhelpful. Mathsci (talk) 16:53, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

I don't see how copy-editing, wikilinking and removing a redundant word can be termed completely incorrect and unhelpful. But I'll leave you to improve the article. It needs some tweaking and clarifying. Cheers. ChildofMidnight (talk) 16:56, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

Vauvenargues is a rural village strung out along a valley, yet you, for some unknown reason, inserted the words "fortified town". Such an edit cannot be described as copyediting, wikilinking or removing redundant wording. It was an unhelpful error. I have no idea why you decided to introduce that misleading information. It was quite disruptive. Mathsci (talk) 23:29, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

You used the word bastide in the opening sentence of your article and there's an article on that subject. So my mistake was quite reasonable based on that article and the word's primary definition. I notcied you unwikilinked it, but a better edit would simply have clarified that you're using it to mean a country house in southern France, and not the meaning covered in the existing Wikipedia article (which perhaps should be amended?). Perhaps now you know why I made the edit that I did. My tweak was based on the information available to me and to clarify content for which you didn't provide adequate context. A bastide can refer to a fortified town or a country house in southern France. So you would be well served to include a clarification so others aren't confused in the same way. Cheers. ChildofMidnight (talk) 23:39, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

HELP!

Hi, my virtual colleague! I hope u r ok. Now it is time when I need your help. There is a very strange person User:Jasepl who is constantly accused of vandalism. Now he is trying to edit "my baby" :))) Aeroflot – Russian Airlines destinations in his own way, deleting everything he thinks useless. To whom I shoud address and how can I stop him of vandalism? Thanks! --Dimitree 22:47, 14 June 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dimitree (talk • contribs)

I'm hanging in there Dimitree. :) I hope you are well also. I agree the changes seem unhelpful (I have no idea why a section on the Middle East needs to be eliminated and merged into a section for Asia for example). But judging from that user's talk page they seem to work on articles related to airlines quite frequently. I would have suggested approaching them, but I see you've already dialogued. Be careful about calling things "vandalism" and try to be polite. The civility police are very concerned about that kind of thing. Hopefully someone else watching my page will weigh in??? I don't have any great suggestions, but I will think on it and keep an eye out. I haven't seen your main man Scapler around in a while either. :) ChildofMidnight (talk) 22:59, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

The link he or she provided says desitinations can be sorted by "continent and region" so I see no problem with using the Middle East as a region and it seems to comply with the consensus guidelines. As far as Eastern European and former Soviet States, maybe you guys can work out a compromise? I don't think they should be included in the Europe section (I see Russia is included in Europe for British Airways which is preposterous), but perhaps distinguishing them from an overly broad "Asia" categorization would be good. And for Azerbihjan (sp?) I would say Central Asia is a reasonable standard (and seems to be used in other similar articles). So you can do away with "Asia" all together. Take a look at British Airways or Lufsthansa destination articles. Probably the article will need to follow similar standards. I'm not sure why the cities were removed except that one of them wasn't correct? Good luck. ChildofMidnight (talk) 23:05, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

• Thanx for hanging in :))) I agree on some points (at least to keep continents, but in a correct way: Azerbajdzhan, Armenia and Georgia were always in Asia, not in Europe), but I disagree on deleting capitals of the countries, wrong editing of charters (even if there is Aeroflot press-release on this very subject) and some other things... So, Child of Midnight, would you tell who is admin here? I found one - Sandstein and have already addressed to him... Let's see what will happen :)))--Dimitree 10:26, 15 June 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dimitree (talk • contribs)

No Greek Pizza

But an amazing stew of cuttlefish with wine, olives and a bit of its ink to give a musky flavor. Served with brown bread and white wine under a grapevine arbor on a lazy afternoon. :~) Aymatth2 (talk) 01:03, 15 June 2009 (UTC) :~) :~) :~)

Yes indeed. Cretan cuisine is IMO among the best local cuisines in Greece, one of the few that have preserved the so-called "Mediterranean diet". Lots of fish and vegetables, fine wines and tsikoudia, far less meat or greasy foods than the mainland. Mmm, now I feel hungry :) Constantine ✍ 01:28, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

On Cretan cuisine in general, I have to completely agree. On tsikoudia, not so sure. It is a bit rough. Although, with a coffee and some slices of orange, maybe a sweet with nuts and honey, it does make a good finish to the meal. Aymatth2 (talk) 00:45, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

All of it sounds good. Where to next? ChildofMidnight (talk) 00:02, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Staudinger synthesis

Hi there,

you put this banner on top of this brand-new article, saying that the article is impenetrable to the non-specialist. Two things:

1. I know that already. It's a new article, it's a start, and it's not my day job to donate text here. I'm doing it because I had been digging through a stack of reviews on the subject all afternoon, Wikipedia had nothing on the subject, and the reaction is actually important. Why not ask a chemist colleague to chip in (you know where to find them), instead of scaring the reader with a banner?
2. It's a specialized subject taught in advanced undergraduate classes. They know what to make of it. The man on the Clapham Omnibus wouldn't go looking for this kind of material.

Regards, Diesel-50 (talk) 04:53, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Thanks

...for letting me know. Turns out it was an article about an unrelated early 20th century politician from Victoria with information about a 20yo university student from my home city tacked on the beginning. Very odd - deleted it :) Orderinchaos 16:47, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Interesting info

In order to complete the collection we have commissioned an elections specialist, David Boothroyd (author of The History of British Political Parties) to compile the fifth volume from scratch, but staying true to the format of the Times Guides of the era...

• Dale, Iain (2003). The Times House of Commons Guide: 1929, 1931, 1935. Politico's. p. vii. ISBN 978-1842750339. {{cite book}}: Unknown parameter |coauthors= ignored (|author= suggested) (help)

Came across this interesting tidbit of info whilst doing additional research for The History of British Political Parties. Cheers, Cirt (talk) 13:35, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

You miss these during the Art Walk?

Scroll down... and no bacon jokes. Schmidt, ^{MICHAEL Q.}

Very cool. Looks like a lot of fun. More exciting than the art walks I was on anyway... :) ChildofMidnight (talk) 22:44, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

It is always a blast giving the expected in an unexpected manner. Schmidt, ^{MICHAEL Q.} 05:06, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

The Art of the Motorcycle exhibit

The discussions over here Category talk:Motorcycles in The Art of the Motorcycle Exhibition add some further details on this project, but I undid your tags because sufficient citations were already given to support what was on the list, and that the exhibit was of major importantance -- it broke attendance records for the Guggenheim and exceeded the yearly attendane of most museums worldwide in only 3 months. Google news and Google Scholar also shows it caused major upheavals in the art world -- I'm working on a separate article on the topic. Please post at the Talk page if you have further questions. Thanks!--Dbratland (talk) 22:39, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

Okay, thanks very much for the note. An article on the show would make sense. A list with no article on the show seemed very odd. Take care. ChildofMidnight (talk) 22:43, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

ANI

You have one. Law _{type! snype?} 00:38, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Hey you

Nope, born and raised right here in the good ole USA. I do admit that I aspire to many of the qualities that the British have: Dignity, respect, civility, and honor. I also admire the friendliness of Aussies mate. ;). But no, I'm one of those arrogant Americans; born and breed. East coast don't cha know?... PA ... Pittsburgh, home of the Superbowl Champion Steelers, and the Stanley Cup champs - The Penguins. Sorry, couldn't resist that .. lol.

Hey CoM, I do want to thank you too. All humor, "moth to the flame" aside. I greatly appreciate your support, and all your efforts to keep things on a "real life" .. "what's best for the wiki" .. "let's not get buried in foolishness" type of thing. I may not always agree with you, but I do love the breath of fresh air that you bring to the place. Thank you so much for being you, and I wish you and yours all of the very best!!! — Ched :  ?  05:10, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Well, my "reluctant" support reflected the fact that you haven't learned to agree with me always... yet. But I was pulling for you just the same. Good job. Congrats. Very much deserved. Don't forget to go outside at least once or twice every few days... And thank you for your fellowship and positive vibes. It's much needed on this sometimes aggravating Bizarro Wiki-world. :) ChildofMidnight (talk) 05:22, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Userfy req

 Done see User:ChildofMidnight/Arab–Israeli conflict facts, figures, and statistics. Cirt (talk) 06:38, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Thanks Cirt. Much appreciated. ChildofMidnight (talk) 07:29, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

I couldn't show up empty handed...

So I brought a seven-layer salad courtesy of the elitist NYT. Scroll down the page till you get to the Obama photo in the right-hand column...the 7LS reference is directly across from it (or was)...I thought it was pretty funny and hope you do too. Seriously, I came here via the Connie Bea Hope article to let you know that I asked User:Billy Hathorn to provide some help in sourcing. He's written probably hundreds of these bios and is very resourceful (or lives in a library) at finding the old news articles that may not yet be online. I'm also seeing a lot more Google scans of old articles showing up in searches, so that may also help solve the sourcing issue when the Mobile archives are online.

I can't tell if you're being facetious, but I don't think there's a bias against anything not covered in the NYT. I use a lot of NYT articles in sourcing (or initially) because all the articles are free, accessible and stable. Most of the Google news search listings bring up the pay-per-view articles, and while some of them are free in the website's archives, I'm finding that more and more are not. And even so, their archives usually just include the last 10 years or so, while the NYT goes back to the 1800s. It will be interesting to see how the Google scans will affect Wikipedia...I think there will probably be an expansion of local and regional notability standards, but I do wonder how Google can post these copyrighted articles. Flowanda | Talk 19:35, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for bringing a dish to pass. That's a nice tidbit. You might enjoy this comment from that article's talk page:

"This bizarre article attempts to argue that "seven-layer salad" is currently a popular American dish produced by restaurant chefs, yet the article also neglects to mention that it may have been popular fifty years ago in select U.S. states, and that no chef of any status would dream of making such a monstrosity, let alone think of making it in 2009. This is a good example of how not to write an article.

Little do they know! Seven-layer salad mania can't be far off!

The bias in favor of coverage by the NYT is quite real for the reasons you point out (and I often engage in some level of facetious and sarcastic overstatement because I find humor entertaining and amusing amidst the despair :) There's no arguing that the NYT's archives are available and free while most others aren't. It's also considered an excellent source despite its obvious bias on political subject, which can be a problem if it's not appropriately balanced per NPOV. Since the archives of many (most) papers aren't available and access to international coverage of subjects is difficult to come by, article contents and the criteria for establishing notability tends to favor that paper in its perspectives and coverage. That's also an area where many editors happen to reside.

If your friend has any sources for Virginia Greer, I would like to restore that article also. I think regional subjects can be notable and worth including, and should be differentiated from subjects that are simply of local interest. Adirondack chairs are a regional subject that's worth including, while a weatherman on a channel in that area (I would argue) isn't, unless he's made some notable impact. Sorry about the long reply. Just a bunch of stuff that's been on my mind I suppose. ChildofMidnight (talk) 19:54, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

The Television Stations project is very active and inclusive oriented Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Television Stations. I'll make a request there since I'm heavily into DoRAD (Denial of Rapidly Approaching Deadline) and it's either that or create the The Prune vs. Rice Pudding Smackdown of 1910.[10] Flowanda | Talk 20:45, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Actually, I think posting a request on the above project's talk page now might just reduce the article to being an example or subject to undue scrutiny as part of an ongoing discussion. Flowanda | Talk 21:59, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

By adducing a general principle...

Mix some shit into the dirt and healthy plants grow, producing beautiful flowers like this one. Thank goodness the photographer remembered to focus. Lighting can be challenging on Dagobah, and holding a camera steady can be tricky when it's suspended in the air using the Force

...I don't mean to imply that you've violated it. I was just citing the principle in play, and I'm sorry if that came across as an accusation. -GTBacchus^(talk) 20:25, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

No worries. I don't even remember which bit you're referring to. The whole thing is an ugly mix of POV pushing, the crusade against real and imagined copyright violations, and admin enforcement run amok. That being said, I always welcome the input of a Master Jedi.

It is my humble opinion, oh wise one, that using admin boards for dispute resolution should always be frowned upon because it is pernicious and damaging. It's a sleazy way to target an editor one disagrees with, and abusing Wikipedia's processes in this way causes lots of tension and drama. The copyvio discussion should have taken place at an appropriate forum. C'est la vie. ChildofMidnight (talk) 20:46, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

You speak well, Grasshopper. Do rest assured that not everything said there is taken seriously by anyone who necessarily matters. You keep sailing above the sleaze, and you'll be fine. Remember the power of boredom. :) -GTBacchus^(talk) 20:53, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Arbcom sanctions coming down the pike say different old friend (now you're going to be accused of partiality...). That whole thread should have ended after the first reply there by another wise Jedi. And as far as boredom, I think it's an affliction whereby admins can't be bothered to properly investigate disputes and will simply block or sanction if they see someone's name enough, which is one of the reasons repeated inappropriate ANI reports should be strongly discouraged.

I still laugh when I remember the original discussion, so long ago now, where you were involved. As soon as you suggested a focus on the content... the canvassers disappeared! Hahahahah. Such is the way of the world on Wikipedia, but there's always another admin out there, and it only takes a few clueless buggers to muck things up.

Speaking of article and content work, when are we going to hunker down and do some? Surely you need a break from all your essay writing? :) Lay it on me. Math topics? Party games? Astrophysics? You should see what I did to deepwater diving topics! Bring it on... ChildofMidnight (talk) 21:00, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

No... you're right. I think I write well, when I bother to do it. Lately I do most of of work in gnomish tasks such as page moves and stub-sorting, when I'm not manning the fire blankets. Also, I've started taking photos. It's fun!

I really ought to get after Fractional coloring, which my MS thesis was about, so I know a little bit. The article is hardly transparent to a non-specialist at this point.

ArbCom sanctions... yeah, I read something about those. Was it the Obama case, or the Date Delinking case? Not both, I hope. I don't keep up with the dramaz nearly well enough. -GTBacchus^(talk) 21:12, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Excelent. I LOVE coloring!!! Isn't there some saying about a little knowledge is a dangerous thing?

The Arbcom thing is no big deal, just the usual misfired overreaction based on a total misunderstanding of the issues involved. I have a dream that one day dispute processes will focus on content and the appropriate application of policies and guidelines. But until then the wikilawyers and game players will continue their disruption and abuse by seeking behavioral sanctions against those with whom they are in content disputes. It would also help if there was a real improvement in the dispute resolution processes as they relate to content.

Anyway, thanks for your collegiality and sense of humor. Always appreciated. I'm headed out, so have a great weekend if I don't hear from you. I'll check in on the fraction coloring article (sic) when I get a chance... I'm sure I can find some trivia and popular culture tidbits to add. Has the subject featured on Family Guy at all? (ec) If there's a Nascar tie-in maybe we can get Chedsky to help. ChildofMidnight (talk) 21:23, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Somewhere in this thread there is a touch of "snatch the pebble from my hand" humor. I'd look for it, but sadly it would likely come across as very morbid, and in poor taste. "Boring" and "Math" in the same thread? ... naaa, I'm not going there either. I think "da wiki" is playing Jedi mind tricks on me today. ;) — Ched :  ?  21:15, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Heh. WP:BOREDOM. Red? That goes on the to-do list. -GTBacchus^(talk) 21:27, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Well, bless your hearts, I couldn't have set this up better myself. How about taking a look at this: [11]? Flowanda | Talk 21:44, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Ratel isn't a member of my fan club, so I hestitate to investigate and offer up my two cents. BLP is sometimes abused to keep out content that some editors don't like. The focus should be on reliable sourcing, appropriate wording and weight (up to and including exclusion if there's a lack of notability or significance). Aron Bielski has a similar dispute and I hear there's some issue about David Bothyrood's article, but I'm focused on flowers and coloring now. GTB has inspired me! Oh and food too, food is always safe (unless it has hormones, is artificial, fattening, has been contaminated, spoils easily, or causes allergic reactions). Although it's occasionally subject to ethnic dispute, environmental concerns or is involved in health related difficulties, in which case it can be controversial. Fortunately, everyone loves bacon and dessert salads... ChildofMidnight (talk) 21:53, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Thanks...I didn't know. There were requests for uninvolved editors, and I take that to include previous interactions with other editors, not just with the article itself. Flowanda | Talk 23:17, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Bilaterals

I am staying out of the debates, just making slots in the "Foreign relations of ..." articles to hold content, and merging some obvious stubs. Almost all countries are done now except the US and UK, which scare me - 80% of the flak will come from these two. I may just skip them - these articles have enough editors that they can look after themselves. Next phase is to systematically merge in stubs, add redlinks for obvious gaps and clean up the articles. But that is a huge job and I have a short span of attention. Aymatth2 (talk) 01:14, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

Now I remember. Dogged vandalism. Well maybe if I move to fusion cuisine I will be o.k. Italian American cuisine, Malaysian Chinese cuisine, that sort of thing. Mongolian Costa Rican cuisine. Aymatth2 (talk) 12:13, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

Hello, ChildofMidnight. You have new messages at Glane23's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Gerald Walpin firing

Hi. Thanks for your help with Gerald Walpin firing. While trying to fix the major damage to the article, it's possible that I may have unintentionally changed some of your good edits. It's so confusing what happened, and I tried to fix it. But if I undid any of your good edits, I apologize. Grundle2600 (talk) 16:10, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

Grundle, can you try to integrate the content added by Benjiboi? It wasn't perfect, but I think it needed tweaking rather than reversion. And most of it could be moved to the body of the article. Keep in mind what it's like when another editor comes by and removes all of your additions or changes to an article instead of fixing them... Cheers. Have a great weekend. Thanks again for all your great article contributions. I hope you don't get discouraged by Arbcon. :) ChildofMidnight (talk) 16:13, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

Yes, I will go and do that regarding Benjiboi's edits. Yes, I do know how it feels, and I don't want to make someone else feel that way. Thanks for the suggestion. You have a great weekend too. Thanks. Bye! Grundle2600 (talk) 16:44, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

Well, as was to be expected (if you didn't get there first) he reverted. :) I think it's usually best to move forward unless it's really a damaging edit or series of edits. I tried to move some stuff out of the lead and trim it a bit. Are you going to add something about the CUNY part? Also, I don't know if you noticed but there are now other firings being looked into. I'm not sure how it should all be handled, and I recommend treading lightly so as not to tip over the apple cart, just saying. Cheers! Have a super weekend. ChildofMidnight (talk) 16:47, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

I don't know if I'll be adding the other firings. If there's a trend, I think it would be worth noting. I think the CUNY thing was a different person - so if I add the other firings, I guess I would add that. Grundle2600 (talk) 00:00, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

CUNY was him too I believe. He found that they were paying for stuff that was already covered. Pissed off the wrong people it looks like. :) ChildofMidnight (talk) 00:16, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

Candy stick photo

Hi, Child,

Your user page indicates you'd like a different Flickr photo for the Candy stick article. I checked into the photo you mentioned [12] and found that its use is licensed by too restrictive a license for Wikipedia because it limits derivative use. The specific CC license is described here: [13]. Alas...Geoff ^{T C} 19:59, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

Yeah. We need to take our own shots I guess. Freaking flickr! I'm going to end up very fat buying and making all these candies and desserts so I can photograph them. :) ChildofMidnight (talk) 20:02, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

Too late for me! Geoff ^{T C} 22:19, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

Arthur Eve

Thanks for coming by and doing some copyediting. You may or may not be aware that the article is a current WP:PR at Wikipedia:Peer review/Arthur Eve/archive1‎‎. We had some organizational discussions at Talk:Arthur Eve/GA2. Any assistance you might be able to lend in reorganizing the main body text would be greatly appreciated.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 04:10, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

RE : Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Obama articles

This arbitration case has been closed and the final decision is available at the link above.

• Stevertigo (talk · contribs), Sceptre (talk · contribs), ChildofMidnight (talk · contribs), Scjessey (talk · contribs) and Grundle2600 (talk · contribs) are admonished for their edit-warring. Furthermore, they shall be subject to an editing restriction for one year. They are limited to one revert per page per week (except for undisputable vandalism and BLP violations), and are required to discuss any content reversions on the page's talk page.
• In addition, Scjessey (talk · contribs) and ChildofMidnight (talk · contribs) are topic-banned from Obama-related articles for six months, including talk pages.
• ChildofMidnight (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) and Scjessey (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) are not to interact with each other, including replying or reverting of each other’s actions. ChildofMidnight (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) and Wikidemon (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) are not to interact with each other, including replying or reverting of each other’s actions.

Non-compliance to the above are grounds for blocking for the duration specified in the enforcement ruling.

• Wikidemon (talk · contribs) is admonished for his part in the edit warring.
• Grsz11 (talk · contribs) and Tarc (talk · contribs) are reminded to be civil when dealing with hot-button and controversial situations.
• Baseball Bugs (talk · contribs) is reminded to be more civil when dealing with users and to not use talk pages as a forum.

The probation on articles relating to Barack Obama will be reviewed by a group of involved and non-involved editors and administrators to see how effective it has been. The process will last two weeks. After the two weeks elapse, the working group will provide their findings to us and the community, and will outline how the article probation will run in the future.

- For the Arbitration Committee, Mailer Diablo 15:38, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

Hello, ChildofMidnight. You have new messages at Glane23's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Oh well.

All I ever did was add well sourced material to articles. And now they are blocking and censoring me. I see they got you too. Oh well. Grundle2600 (talk) 17:13, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

Yes indeed. Shit happens my friend. The people in Tehran are experiencing much worse. I remember the many volumes that made up the World Book Encyclopedia on my family's bookshelf growing up, and who would have imagined that we'd be able to contribute to it one day?

You've written many great articles and done a lot of good work. As I said before, I'm sorry you got mixed up with the swamp characters and POV pushing game players who infest Wikipedia's political coverage. It's an unfortunate part of contributing here, and it's obviously very damaging to the encyclopedia's integrity. I know it's distressing to see the bias, censorship, and harrassment carried out by these individuals encouraged, but the world and Wikipedia aren't perfect, and we do the best that we can. :) Take care of yourself and have fun. Thanks again for your good work and your many contributions. I have great respect for your collegial approach and patience. Take care. ChildofMidnight (talk) 18:15, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

Thanks! Grundle2600 (talk) 20:44, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Timmeh 2

Hi! Regarding your oppose here, the exact count of Timmeh's edits at User talk:DougsTech is 35. By the way, I've been browsing his edits to that page for a while now and still haven't found anything that would make me believe that he'd abuse the tools (my criteria are probably a little looser than yours, tho). Is it just the talk page behaviour you're opposing over, or am I missing something (an AN/I thread, edit warring or something)? Jafeluv (talk) 00:36, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for your post Jafeluv. There may be additional diffs on Timmeh's page and perhaps elsewhere. Self-control and knowing when to disengage are important criteria for admins. So I would say 35 posts of an adversarial nature to Dougstech is way too many. But I appreciate that others disagree. I've seen a lot of good editing from Timmeh. If after a few months have passed he demonstrates dispute resolution skills that reassure me he won't add to the flame wars and will step away from situations like this in the future I would support him. I don't enjoy opposing at all. But I think it's important that admins have experience dealing with content issues including disputes and have the maturity and restraint to defuse rather than add to problems when they arise. Cheers. ChildofMidnight (talk) 19:34, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

Question about edit that got reverted

In regard to the Mark Hammil edits I was just posting which characters he voiced what is wrong with that? 173.18.28.177 (talk) 01:03, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Best to ask the editor that reverted it. But perhaps given your history they didn't think it was a legitimate edit. Do you have a source for the information you added? ChildofMidnight (talk) 01:09, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Yes take a look at imdb.com they are right most of the time in their cast lists and the characters they played, so could you please restore them?173.18.28.177 (talk) 01:11, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

I saw on that edit "Sean leader of the fairies". I took "fairy" as a form of vandalism (an synonym for "homosexuality"). If I am incorrect, then undo my revert and accept my apologies. Thank you, MuZemike 01:14, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Yes he was the voice of the leader of a fairy village173.18.28.177 (talk) 01:15, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

OK, then. That was an error on my part. Sorry, MuZemike 01:16, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

• As best I can tell the voice for Sean, king of the fairies, is accurate attribution. ChildofMidnight (talk) 01:22, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

oops

sorry ... I couldn't resist the obvious. ;) — Ched :  ?  03:07, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks for bringing that one to my attention - if you look up "Utegate" on the web, you will see what it relates to. The guy's a minor public servant who's unexpectedly become the centre of political attention after some comments he made under intense pressure at last week's Senate Estimates hearings. Orderinchaos 04:11, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

veritee

here you have references from the largest papers in switzerland , what else do you need for notability!

^ Market Magazine] ^ 20 Minute News L'Extension Magazine Geneve: Une Boisson Fortifiante http://www.lextension.com/index.php?page=actu&actionActu=det&id_actu=13144

Lifefair-Magazin News: VERITEE neu in der Schweiz erhältlich http://www.lifefair-magazin.ch/index.asp?newsid=527&topic_id=2

Veritee® Wellness Drink Nutri-Pharma http://www.agroligne.com/contenu/veritee-r-wellness-drink-nutri-pharma

Eau Taillefine : ultime sursis pour un symbole http://www.bloob.fr/la-presse-en-parle/eau-taillefine-ultime-sursis-pour-un-symbole-5087.html

Montreux Jazz News Magazine http://www.nightlife-mag.ch/azzaronow/NLSuisse.pdf

Wikipedia is not a marketing service for consumer products. I don't find the drink notable or particularly interesting, and I don't think it meets our guidelines. Why do you think it's important that it be included in this encyclopedia? ChildofMidnight (talk) 18:58, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

More Bacon

Check these bacon and egg sandwich photos I just uploaded to Commons: [14] and [15]. Same sandwich - one open-face and one closed and cut in two. Nothing fancy - just buttered toast. "One small step for a man, one (slightly bigger) step for bacon." (I was nonplussed when I found no such photos in Commons. Nothing would suffice but to rectify the lack.) Cheers! Geoff ^{T C} 00:37, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Gorgeous! And I saw the photo you added to the bacon egg and cheese sandwich article. What's for dinner? ChildofMidnight (talk) 00:40, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Well, I ate the sandwich for breakfast and it sustained me all day, supplemented by a salad, some fruit and a little pasta with pesto at lunch. Perhaps some chili and cornbread? But nothing means bacon like 'The State's' "Bacon Skit": [16] ;o) Geoff ^{T C} 01:22, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Images that you might like

for the newest article, Food and sexuality[17][18][19][20][21][22]. I think the second image looks like "avant-garde performing art" (means not looking sexy at all). I hope you enjoy the images, regards.--Caspian blue 03:11, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

I like the skittles and the cherry one. But who knows what others will consider "encyclopedic". There was a discussion of the topic and the image that's tehre on another users page and I thought it would be a good article. It needs a lot of expansion. Thanks very much for looking for me! I did a bunch of searches on there, but didn't come up with much. I'm also wary of being accused of sexism or heterosexist (is that the right term?) or who knows what else depending on what image is chosen. But maybe I'm being paranoid. A still from the movies might work too, especially for that section. Have you seen Tampopo? Haha you have some rivals from Japan if I'm not mistaken. But there are some interesting visuals. Are there any sexual foods in Korea that differ from the West? ChildofMidnight (talk) 03:17, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

"Sexual food" (that sounds very sensuous!) in Korea that does not much differ from Westers'. In 1980s, South Korea produced a lot of films dealing with erotic subjects due to the gloomy political situation, and some popular films that even earned high film awards are titled like "Wild Strawberries" (not to be confused with Ingmar Bergman's Wild Strawberries), Mulberry and etc. I can not recall any specific Korean food that may be interesting for you. I think Lasse Hallström's Chocolate is directly related to sex and love? Or 9 and half weeks. --Caspian blue 03:42, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

So I guess we've come a long way since this: File:HA WhippedCream.jpg. Or have we? Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 03:46, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

That image would be great to use, but is non-free. ChildofMidnight (talk) 04:04, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

A side note, bunny is a symbol of sexuality in Korea too.... I recall Playboy. --Caspian blue 03:52, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Ain't it da truth! :) Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 03:55, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Any proper sex symbol can lay eggs. PhGustaf (talk) 04:07, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

"Here's the Easter Rabbit, hooray! ..." Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 09:35, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

For other issues please press 5 now...

You have a very advanced directory system for leaving comments. Makes me feel silly for just wanting to stop by to give you a hard time for your "does Migros carry it" notability criteria. Have fun. ChildofMidnight (talk) 18:59, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Actually the Migros question was a tiebreaker. I thought the product was borderline notable, so that was going to be the final decider. Stifle (talk) 08:07, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

No worries. ChildofMidnight (talk) 15:50, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Wikihounding

ChildofMidnight. I have created two articles recently - both started as stubs - and you have appeared almost immediately to make not very intelligent changes to the stubbed version. This applies to the Chateau of Vauvenargues, where you described the small village of Vauvenargues as a fortified town. In the mathematical stub Butcher group, which is about to be expanded, you similarly appeared out of the blue and made an unhelpful change to the stub separating closely linked sentences. This is a formal warning that if you continue following me around like this, you are likely to be blocked. Your editing behaviour has been analysed by ArbCom who found it problematic. You now appear to be gaming the system. Mathsci (talk) 08:51, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Please make sure the articles you write are clear and well written. The articles you've created recently have needed a lot of work. You might consider using a sandbox. I also suggest reviewing wp:mos and wp:lead for more information. Good luck. ChildofMidnight (talk) 15:51, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Your further edits were removed by another editor. Since you seem to have no expertise in mathematics, one more edit to the article will presumably result in a block of a week or more for you, considering your past history. You have no idea what the article is going to contain and are purposely being disruptive, like an annoying little child. I don't think any administrators will look on your editing behaviour at all favourably. You will be reported at WP:ANI if you continue to wikihound a senior mathematics editor and presumably can expect a block. I have no idea what is going through your head, but you have a very poor history on WP. Antagonizing editors seems to be a particular specialty of yours. In this particular subject area your edits seem completely clueless. Mathsci (talk) 16:58, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

The first sentence of that article is a pathetically organized run-on that violates our style guidelines. Your rudeness and threats make you look like a real jerk. If you did a better job writing, your work wouldn't need so much fixing. ChildofMidnight (talk) 17:01, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

You have been reported at WP:ANI. If you had the slightest amount of experience in editing advanced mathematics articles, you might possibly have been taken seriously. This does not seem to be the case and you seem to have been stalking me. This is a repetition of your recent highly problematic and tendentious editing patterns. Mathsci (talk) 21:07, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sisu (2nd nomination)

Thank you for your kind comment. Bearian (talk) 18:50, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

I had that AfD and article on my watchlist. The subject seemed to border on a dicdef of a translated word, but there were some indications that it was significant and maybe worth including. We'll see what happens with it now, but your efforts were very constructive. Hopefully it will survive, as coverage of it has been established. I've noticed that you do a lot of thoughtful contributing at the AfD discussions and I (for one) appreciate it. Cheers. ChildofMidnight (talk) 18:58, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Thanks

Thank you ever so much,have fun as well Secthayrabe (talk)

My first stab at a Supreme Court case

Can you mutilate User:Kelapstick/Coeur Alaska, Inc. v. Southeast Alaska Conservation Council‎ when you get a minute.--kelapstick (talk) 19:22, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

The notability and significance of the case needs to be indicated in the lead (opening paragraphs) and covered earlier in the article. I would move the plotline of its course through appeals and such down. For encyclopedic notability I think the issues involved and how it was deicided are more pertinent than a chronological description of the legal proceedings themselves (though that should be described also). I would dig in, but I'm under attack for my clueless editing!!! :) You might also ask Bearian to have a look. Seems like an interesting article to me. I don't know what those Libs have against a little infill. Seems perfectly natural to me. Isn't that what National Parks are all about? ChildofMidnight (talk) 19:24, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Well, since I know about as much on the law as I do about mathematics, I went ahead and made a bunch of changes. Feel free to revert as necessary and please do check it over so you can fix any damage I did. It's a good article about Justice and the Rule of Law prevailing over a few fish and perhaps some snails and frogs, which are only relevant if you're French. :) Drill baby drill. Keep those shiny baubles coming, Daddy needs a new pair of shoes, or something. Come to think of it, does the article even say what was mined there? Are there any studies about the tailings and whether they're toxic or not? How about since the dumping has taken place? You still have a lot of work to do my friend. An article on the lake (or ummm, the hill as may be the case now) is also needed. GET TO WORK!!! ChildofMidnight (talk) 23:08, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the tweaks, I received a first pass blessing (at least by one editor) at WP:SCOTUS. I put it up at DYK, how does ... that following the Supreme Court's ruling on Coeur Alaska, Inc. v. Southeast Alaska Conservation Council, Coeur d'Alene Mines share prices increased by over five percent ? sound? Sorry to see all the shizzle manizzle below, it's a raw deal for sure. As usual Caspian's wisdom is something to heed. you should take a nap, I wish I could. I was up at 5:00 with the boy this morning...I didn't know there was a five o'clock in the morning too...--kelapstick (talk) 16:43, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the note K-stick. Sorry about your early wake up call. But you're still a heck of a good guy. I took another look at that article last night, and saw that while I think my edits were headed in the right direction, there was a lot of construction debris and mess left lying about. Unfortunately I'm not in a position at the moment to fix things, but when I get a chance I'll expand the opening sentence into 2. (One sentence does not a paragraph make, not even one of Doc's comma and semicolon laden monstrosities... :) The opening sentence should also be tweaked to "determining whether Coeur Alaska had a the appropriate permit to dump mine waste in a lake. The case was decided blah blah blah. Then the rest of it, or something like that. I've written down some other tweaks I want to do as well. Anyway, have fun brother. "It's gettin' hot in here..." RENO!!! :) ChildofMidnight (talk) 16:53, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

That hook seems lame. I'd like something about the supreme court upholding the mining company's right to fill a lake with mining tailings. :) But maybe you want something fluffier? Environmental groups were unsuccessful in their suit to block an Alaska mine's tailing disposal procedures? ChildofMidnight (talk) 16:56, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

• Did you know ...that an Alaska mining company's permit to fill a lake with tailings was upheld by the U.S. Supreme Court in Coeur Alaska, Inc. v. Southeast Alaska Conservation Council‎?
• Did you know ...that a lawsuit by environmental groups to prevent an Alaska mining company from dumping its tailings in a lake were rejected by the Supreme Court in Coeur Alaska, Inc. v. Southeast Alaska Conservation Council‎? ChildofMidnight (talk) 17:01, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

mmmmm....well dumping tailings into a lake is nothing new, it is why Kirkland Lake directs you to the city and not the lake, because there is no lake any more. I will think about those hooks...--kelapstick (talk) 17:04, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Hey man, you don't have to tell me about it. I've bouldered over many a tailings pile in my day. I can't help it if most people think their tin cans and gasoline come about magically like manna from heaven, and that we'll soon be building cars out of hemp and powering the planet on "natural" wind and solar power. I'm just trying to provide you with fun hooks that the boobs will read with interest. ChildofMidnight (talk) 17:10, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

re: Usefulness

All done .. and I even got some help tweaking the things I haven't learned yet! I'm starting to like this! — Ched :  ?  20:44, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

have to refactor at the moment. — Ched :  ?  02:29, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Mathsci

Hi there -- pursuant to Mathsci's complaint about you at ANI, would you agree to refrain from editing articles that Mathsci (and anyone else, for that matter) is actively editing? Even if your edits are making corrections, it can be quite confusing when two editors are having a go at the same text at the same time. It doesn't take too much effort to wait until they are done for the day. I would also ask that you agree to discuss content disputes in a civil manner, and I would ask Mathsci to agree to the same. --Laser brain (talk) 21:18, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

What ANI report? ChildofMidnight (talk) 21:27, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

This One. Gee.... Pedro :  Chat  21:28, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

And by "Gee....." I mean I'm staggered the editor is after a "block of some kind" over this, and not your comment at all - just realised that could be misconstrued - apologies. Pedro :  Chat  21:29, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Thanks Pedro. Mathsci left a note above that he filed an ANI complaint but I should have linked it here as well. --Laser brain (talk) 21:33, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Re: Your apology

Uh...no. I stand by my comments. Just because you don't like them doesn't mean I own you an apology. As my Aussie friend would stay...buck up. - NeutralHomer • Talk • 22:28, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

CoM, don't bother, see this He even said his another opponent to be executed. So what do you expect? --Caspian blue 22:35, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Yes, I suppose you're right. Anyway, it's better to be blocked than hung. :) Fire and pitchforks are also bad, but a firing squad would at least be quick. Another exciting day on the 'pedia! ChildofMidnight (talk) 22:54, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

It's actually better to be "hung". To be "hanged" is bad. To be "hung"... well, that can open up all kinds of career opportunities. The sheriff of Rock Ridge, for example. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 23:08, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Given Bugs' huge interest in any of my conversations with CoM, it is obvious that bunny loves CoM so much! (or me? oh, no thanks, I'm allergic to rabbit)--Caspian blue 23:40, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

I spread the love wherever I can. 0:) Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 23:42, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

You and Caspian are getting all uppity because I called for you to be blocked for 24 hours for disruptive editing. Well, a thousand pardons for suggesting that an editor who has had a dozen or so (give or take) ANI and AN posts have some consequence to his behavior. A thousand pardons indeed. While CoM is requesting (more like expecting) apologizes), do me a favor Caspian and look at his record on ANI and AN while you are having fun digging things up. You will see that not only do I not owe him an apology, I was more than correct in suggesting he be blocked for disruptive editing. - NeutralHomer • Talk • 23:02, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

The point actually Neutral, is that I didn't do anything wrong in regards to this report. The others are similar. I'm no angel, but I'm a pretty collegial and collaborative kid. And I actually know a thing or two about writing good articles. Take care bro. There's no grudges or hard feelings here. Shit happens, and we humans make mistakes. Even Casp and I, and we're pretty darn near perfect. ChildofMidnight (talk) 23:13, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Incivility: blocked

This [23] is not tolerable. I've blocked you for 24h for invicility William M. Connolley (talk) 23:37, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Wow. You've messed up badly. I would have expected you to get consensus at ANI where Mathsci's disgusting behavior is under discussion. But some admins, the worst kind, have no restraint and incredibly bad judgment. It's a shame. Wikipedia has lost many great editors because of it and made quite a few enemies.

I hope you'll come to your senses and apologize soon. This might be a good opportunity to resolve once and for all that erroneous blocks like this one should be oversighted from an editor's history so they aren't maligned by admin stupidity going uncorrected.

And for what it's worth, he said "You... are purposely being disruptive, like an annoying little child... I have no idea what is going through your head, but you have a very poor history on WP. Antagonizing editors seems to be a particular specialty of yours. In this particular subject area your edits seem completely clueless." But recognizing an enfant terrible I showed restraint. So, I hope you're kidding with this block. My response after being templated by that nasty editor making false allegations against me was quite reasonable and accurate. I came across his article on new page patrol. Look at my editing history. This is an atrocious block Connolley. A magnifique fuck-up of the first order. ChildofMidnight (talk) 23:53, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Hey, CoM -

1. I agree that William overreacted here.

2. HOWEVER -

Your recent behavior to a number of editors has been rude and abusive. You know why our civility policy is there - if discussion is abusive, it makes it harder for everyone to discuss and find consensus, and degrades the quality of everyone's participation.

I have asked that William unblock you. However, you owe Mathsci an apology for the tone of a couple of your responses. The two of you butting heads was annoying - but did not justify being that rude.

If you can't find an apology in you today, perhaps you need to take a short break. If you're editing when you feel like attacking people, it does not help articles or the Wikipedia community.

If you can take the step back from the headbutting I see no reason to have you blocked right now.

Please try and de-escalate things and behave more collegially towards your fellow editors. Thank you. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 00:16, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Listen George. You can't have jerks like these people running around making false accusations, personal attacks, shitty blocks, and then expect me to be all sweetness. The opening sentences of that article ARE POORLY WRITTEN!!! Go read it. I edited it once, left a clean up tag after my change was reverted, and left a comment on the talk page. That's it. Nothing since.

I came across it on new page patrol, despite the numerous policy violating accusations made against me which you haven't said shit about. I made one edit to the content of that article, one of many improvements I made to the encyclopedia working on dozens of new article articles on new page patrol at that time.

Not one of these assholes making false accusations against me can be bothered to look at my editing history to see that the accusations of stalking and harassment are 100% untrue! Don't expect me to be calm and nice in the face of some jackass unilaterally blocking me when the discussion at ANI clearly shows that my edits were reasonable, the other editor has wp:own issues, and has engaged in grotesque incivility. Where's the consensus? Where are the policies that are supposed to apply to them?

If you think I've been uncivil show me where. I have Basebull Bugs and Phgustaff baiting me and following me around. I have this joke of an Arbcom decision based on manufactured bullshit. I dare you to look at the supposed "templating" and my "refactoring" where I corrected two spelling mistakes. So if you want to be on my side then unblock me and ask Connelly for an apology. Otherwise, stay off my fucking page. I think I've put up with enough bullshit for one day and should get a civility barnstar for my measured response. You go help out on new page patrol and get this nastiness from some jerk and see how sweet you are back to them. I didn't follow them around. I responded appropriately and I have no patience for this dishonest incompetence. If you don't want to fix the situation then fuck off. Look through my edits today and see if you think I've been collegial. Don't make bullshit false insinuations against me. I don't appreciate it. ChildofMidnight (talk) 00:29, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

I am going to repeat myself, briefly -

Yes. I think you're being abusive and rude today.

That's why I'm suggesting the break.

I do not disagree that your edit change to the articles was reasonable editing, in line with your general cleanup work.

Mathsci's comments were over the top. But only borderline rude - wrong, and trying to drag admins in inappropriately, but not terribly rude.

Your responses to him have been rude. Your response here has been rude - you got extremely defensive and counterattacked as opposed to asking for clarification and defending specific comments or edits. We don't require recently blocked people to be sweetness and light after the block - it's a specific exception to the civility policy, within limits - but most people don't react this strongly. Which leads me to believe that yes, something has gotten to you today, and that you're pissed off.

I don't want to butt heads. I want you to take a bit of time and stop butting heads.

I am not going to unblock unless ANI consensus develops, and I'm going out of contact for a while, but your reaction is probably going to convince people that you are upset over something today and reacting in a nasty manner, and that leaving the block on for the 24 hrs is a good idea.

I'm sorry that something's made you this way today. You normally, while not exactly noncontroversial, never push people's buttons like this. I hope you feel better and can get along with people better tomorrow. I think unblocking you and letting you come to that conclusion yourself is the best thing, but as I said, I'm going out of contact so I'll leave that to ANI. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 00:37, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Herbert you're living in fantasy land. The guy leaves a templated warning on my page making a bunch of false accusations against me. He says "you have appeared almost immediately to make not very intelligent changes to the stubbed version" and "You now appear to be gaming the system." That's just from his FIRST message here. I make a perfectly civil response to this rude fellow dropping in, and then the guy goes on to say a bunch more like "You have no idea what the article is going to contain and are purposely being disruptive, like an annoying little child." And, "You will be reported at WP:ANI if you continue to wikihound a senior mathematics editor and presumably can expect a block. I have no idea what is going through your head, but you have a very poor history on WP. Antagonizing editors seems to be a particular specialty of yours. In this particular subject area your edits seem completely clueless." You think that's civil? Save me the bullshit. This block stinks horribly and anyone who defends it or tries to suggest that I've caused it, when I've largely ignored the circus on ANI and the baiting by this Frenchman, is either misguided or a moron. HIS COMMENTS ON ANI DEFINE INCIVILITY. And if you want to defend them and cast aspersions on me, then shame on you! Again, I came on a single article on new page patrol. I made a helpful edit. I've been harassed and attacked since. It's indefensible, and if you think helping is suggesting that I'm the one who's been uncivil, then you're fooling yourself. You haven't read my edits. I collaborated on an article recreation, helped out in a sandbox, contributed at AfD, and did countless other things with lots of editors with no problems. You're making shit up that's just not true. Mathsci behaved like a jerk. That's the truth. ChildofMidnight (talk) 00:45, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Bad luck for tripping over a drunk. --Malleus Fatuorum 00:21, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

This is a bad block. No reason for it. The other editor has called CoM ignorant of HIS those articles. The Admin blocked the wrong editor.--Jojhutton (talk) 02:18, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

CoM: I'm very sorry to see you were blocked. I hope you can take what George suggested in the spirit intended. There is wisdom there. I'd like to see you back working on interesting articles again soon. Jonathunder (talk) 02:51, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

I agree, this block was an error in judgment. — Ched :  ?  02:58, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

But one that will not be recorded in the blocking administrator's log, unlike the block that he drunkenly imnposed. Welcome to whackiwikiworld, where everything that administrators do is automatically OK, and when it isn't it's swept under the carpet. --Malleus Fatuorum 03:06, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

(ec) Malleus .. surprise, surprise ... I actually agree with you - to a point. Administrators are human beings, they make mistakes, some more than others. I don't think it is right to heave a huge bolder at a stereotyped glass house of "administrators". No, I don't agree that "everything that administrators do is automatically OK", but you can read any AN board on any given day to see that I'm not alone in that evaluation. We're people here Mall, we do the best we can with our given talents. Please don't try to make every admin. out to be a bad guy. — Ched :  ?  03:32, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

I don't think you even understand what I'm saying, as is evident from your response above, so I very much doubt that you agree with it. --Malleus Fatuorum 03:42, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Just won't give me an ounce of credit eh? ... That's ok, I can respect the requirements to earn respect. OK.. should a note be made of a "bad block"... my opinion .. yes. Should bad blocks be expunged (oversighted and removed) .. yes. IMHO — Ched :  ?  03:56, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

... but will they be? No. Will you fight for them to be? No. --Malleus Fatuorum 04:00, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

You ask the question "Will I fight for them to be?" .. and then you assume my answer will be "No". You tell me... how do we make these changes? — Ched :  ?  04:05, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

I haven't read all of the discussion in this section but after finding out about ChildofMidnight's "block for incivility", I was wondering what was meant by this edit summary.--The Legendary Sky Attacker 03:21, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Hey Sky. I was just kidding with you because the initial edit that added that content was this one [24]. So it was a tribute to someone's chemistry teacher, or something like that, if I remember right. So I was just trying to kid with you, saying that tributes go on your page, since you restored it (I think not realising that this was the original basis for that addition?). Sorry if it wasn't clear or funny. Most of my jokes aren't. :) ChildofMidnight (talk) 05:11, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

That's okay CoM. After all, Wikipedia is not always a serious place. I saw that the "drunk" comment above caused a discussion on ANI. I really do hope that there is no policy on being perfectly sober when editing. Because I've been known to edit while enjoying a beer...--The Legendary Sky Attacker 06:14, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Well, it's certainly best not to issue unilateral blocks wholly unsupported by ongoing discussion when drunk. You're not an admin, and as far as I can tell you're not a complete jerk, so if you want to have a few beers I give you permission. :) But if you do become an admin, best not to block anyone while you're sauced before passing out. ChildofMidnight (talk) 06:22, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

inre Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The Cheating Scales of Bullamanka

I used your hints and just finished a cleanup and expansion of The Cheating Scales of Bullamanka to address the nom's concerns. Anything you might add? Schmidt, ^{MICHAEL Q.} 02:30, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Hey MQS. Always a pleasure to see you. I hope you are well. I don't have much to add to that. Maybe just some tag reduction and a tweaks here or there. Someday if I'm unblocked I'll try to have a look. Take care of yourself buddy. :) ChildofMidnight (talk) 06:36, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

I noticed the AfD nominator is busy removing "redundant references". Haha, too funny. It can be hard to establish notability when you have characters like that one making abusive and disruptive edits. ChildofMidnight (talk) 15:20, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Let's pile it on...

What's your poison?

Hey CoM, I'm having a beer. Want one? Pop it open, have a sip...the first sentence of Butcher group was not a run-on sentence, strictly speaking. That's the bad news. The good news: that tweak of yours did actually improve the legibility of the sentence. But hey, I'm just a grammarian who dabbles in rhetoric (or the other way around). I also agree that that block was over the top. Whatever followed that, in general I like to think "que sera, sera," and hope that you will feel the same way. Mathsci was behaving in a less-than-civil manner, to put it politely, and filing that AN/I thread, well, there was no need for that kind of knee-jerk reaction at all. You'll be back soon, producing content and tweaking to your heart's content, I hope.

Sippy and Rosie are snoring, Gina and her female friends are sipping Bellinis (I cater other people's So You Think You Can Dance parties, apparently), and I got a cardboard guitar for father's day. Take care, Drmies (talk) 04:04, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Thanks Doc. Very kind of you. Much appreciated as always. I was pretty fired up for my flag football game on the beach. :) I've seen the way you use commas, so it's no surprise to me that you don't think it's a run-on. :) Cheerios. Best to you and your family. Did you see the article I posted an K-stick's page? Freaking awesome. Have fun. Don't stay up too late. And remember, rarely is the question asked: is our children learning? ChildofMidnight (talk) 05:19, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Haha, our oldest child are watch Super Why! right now, so of course they be learning! Drmies (talk) 13:35, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

My editing history

Here's my editing history from the time I've been accused of stalking Mathsci. These are all new articles I worked on at new page patrol that were created around the same time. So the attacks and false accusations on me are obviously lies. But this kind of abuse gets rewarded by drunk and incompetent admins.

05:33, 24 June 2009 (hist) (diff) Rolf Potts ‎ (tweaks) (top)

05:27, 24 June 2009 (hist) (diff) Daniel Edward Lopez ‎ (prod reasoning)

05:27, 24 June 2009 (hist) (diff) Daniel Edward Lopez ‎ (prdo)

05:24, 24 June 2009 (hist) (diff) Andrew Evzona ‎ (speedy nom)

05:21, 24 June 2009 (hist) (diff) User talk:Sam Blacketer ‎ (comment) (top)

05:14, 24 June 2009 (hist) (diff) Butcher group ‎ (tweaks)

The above was the one where I made a single edit to improve the poorly written opening sentence of a new article. As it turned out, the poor writing skills of the arrogant, rude, nasty, uncivil, and policy abusing editor who created this article was the least of his problems. It's unfortunate that good faith editors on Wikipedia have to put up with jerks like this one, who comes stalking my talk page making all kinds of false and abusive statements. Even worse are the incompetent sleaze bag admins like Connoley, and those who would defend their abuse. These cancers encourage attacks on our best contributors. It's wrong to disregard our policies and to ignore ongoing discussions, but no corrective action was or will be taken. The vast majority of admins lack the spine and integrity to fix the problem. Admins like the one that blocked me are like shit in the toilet. They should be flushed out of the system so we can air the place out.

05:12, 24 June 2009 (hist) (diff) Aditya Kashrap ‎ (redirect to movie article) (top)

05:10, 24 June 2009 (hist) (diff) N Talk:Suzhou Polytechnic Institute of Agriculture ‎ (+China project) (top)

05:10, 24 June 2009 (hist) (diff) Suzhou Polytechnic Institute of Agriculture ‎ (unreferenced)

05:07, 24 June 2009 (hist) (diff) Jacqueline Mukansonera ‎ (the assertions need citations to reliable soruces)

05:04, 24 June 2009 (hist) (diff) Wolfgang Gratzer ‎ (+unasourced and notability)

04:59, 24 June 2009 (hist) (diff) Grass emperor ‎ (+hoax tag)

04:58, 24 June 2009 (hist) (diff) Okth ‎ (+translate tag) (top)

04:52, 24 June 2009 (hist) (diff) N Talk:Tu Do ( Freedom) Stadium ‎ (+wikiproject Vietnam) (top)

04:50, 24 June 2009 (hist) (diff) Boxboarders! ‎ (reasoning)

And of course there's lots more incivility, false accusations, personal attacks, and other violations on the ANI board from the usual circus clowns. But it's par for the course here on Wiki. ChildofMidnight (talk) 06:12, 25 June 2009 (UTC) ChildofMidnight (talk) 05:47, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

You are missing the point. Your editing history isn't in question. The point is your incivility. Quite how you think the poor writing skills of the arrogant, rude, nasty, uncivil, and policy abusing editor (can you see the double standards in that quote?) is going to help you I don't know William M. Connolley (talk) 07:28, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Consensus is obviously against your block. Even those who don't like me agree you were out of line. You're quite a daft fellow not to understand that abusing your bit and acting foolishly while drunk, is highly uncivil and inappropriate. Even if you could fix what you've done, the best start would be to apologize for acting like an ass. If you're unwilling to do so, that's on you. ChildofMidnight (talk) 07:31, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

If you want to be unblocked, put up an {{unblock|reason}} template. I'm neutral on this block, but otherwise I would have indeed lengthened it for the PAs on the blocking admin above. That kind of talk is not on here, stop it. Gwen Gale (talk) 15:01, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Abusive blocks against consensus aren't on either Gwen. Given your recent inappropriate behavior towards another good editor I would have thought you'd have figured that out by now. ChildofMidnight (talk) 15:18, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

I'm not putting up any unblock template. Undoing William Connelley's abusive behavior shouldn't require any such action on my part. That abusive blocks elicit a strongly negative reaction from those affected should come as no surprise. If the drunken lout that blocked me or some other admin who possesses some shred of integrity and good sense wants to take the appropriate action they're welcome to it. If none of you have that much devotion to righting wrongs and lack the courage to fix a grotesque mistake of this kind, it won't surprise me in the least. ChildofMidnight (talk) 15:26, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

(ec) Ok, I can understand your thinking on the template. Please have at it, if you like. As I said, I'm neutral but however worthy the block may have been, I'm also seeing a game of "bait the admins," gettin' mossy, that one. Gwen Gale (talk) 15:31, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

How is pointing out admin abuse a game of bait the admins? In case you haven't figured it out, I'd like to be left completely alone by admins. As they can't be bothered to address trolls and stalkers like Baseball Bugs and Wikidemon who come on my talk page and harass me (despite repeated requests to stay away since their comments have naught to do with improving the encyclopedia), I have little use for them. Go revert some vandalism, you don't appear to have a clue about how damaging admin abuse and incompetence is to our project, let alone any idea or plan for fixing the problem. ChildofMidnight (talk) 15:36, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Seems like Gwen is only able to see what she wants to see, not what is patently clear to most everyone else. --Malleus Fatuorum 15:38, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

PS. If I were able, I'd unblock you CoM, but as you know I can't. I completely agree with your attitude to the unblock request, they're just a humiliating waste of time. Speaking of which, your block will be over in a few hours anyway. :-) --Malleus Fatuorum 15:43, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Thanks Mall. Indeed Gwen Gale's long history of abuse is well documented on other internet sites. That she still hasn't mustered a clue after all this time is rather shocking. I notice also that she's taken to misrepresenting comments by taking them out of context. It's pretty disgusting behavior to be sure. It's very hard to describe her actions in terms that are civil, and I don't hold out much hope that she'll get her act together any time soon. ChildofMidnight (talk) 15:57, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

And there I was, about to ask WMC if I could unblock you. Gwen Gale (talk) 16:00, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Hahaha. That's the best one yet Gale. Terrific stuff. Conan O'Brien could use your talents. I apologize if I wasn't holding my breath anticipating your timely unblock. ChildofMidnight (talk) 16:04, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Suggestion

Child, I understand your anger for the bad block by the admin who is notorious for his numerous questionable admin actions and conduct issues. However, Gwen (though she is not enthusiastic about unblocking you) has tried to help you. Do not expect that everyone would be sympathize your wrong block. You have attracted a lot of enemies and trolls for the Obama case and they will take an advantage of your ArbCom sanction just like Mathsic who has rather made horrendous accusations and threats has done to you. However, at this time, I suggest you to stay away from the Wikipedia right now. Having been told, you're really poor at defending yourself just like in the Obama Arbitration. I think you have some odd prejudice on the unblock template. That is made for anyone who wishes to be unblocked regardless of whether their blocking admin is wrongly blocked (in this case) or not.Your rant here is rather firming your blocked status. Please be practical and calm down.--Caspian blue 16:27, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Please refactor your statement that Gwen is trying to help me. It's making me feel nauseous and sick.

I think I've done a fabulous job of defending myself. I suppose it depends which measurement standards are applied and on what basis. Oh well. It's hard to please everyone, especially when so many people want to play critic. :) ChildofMidnight (talk) 17:06, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Oh, well, even if we are twins, I can not share a "same idea" with you all the time. :).

• Some practical suggestions

1. Be calm, and no more rant
2. Well, if you still strongly feel a justice need to be done, take one of formal WP:DR methods for the issue. Either file a RFC/User conduct or Arbcom case on Mathsci or WMC (the latter has already has two RFC/U and ArbCom cases).

   Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests & Wikipedia:Requests for comment/User conduct - DR venues

   Wikipedia:Requests for comment/William M. Connolley

   Wikipedia:Requests for comment/William M. Connolley 2 (userfied though)

   Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/William_M. Connolley

   Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Geogre-William M. Connolley

3. Or forget about this fiasco and concentrate on editing and avoid editors with problems.

So the decision is purely up to you.--Caspian blue 17:19, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

I object to you refactoring my very accurate and reasonable characterizations of those undermining the integrity of Wikipedia and launching a full scale attack on NPOV, one of our core policies. But in deference to you and your kind friendship, I will let it stand. To refer to these swamp creatures as "editors" causes me to gag uncontrollably. Take care Casp. Go work on those beautiful list articles with the fabulous photos. If and when I am unblocked I will try to join you, but more likely I will be waylaid by my usual work on more frivolous fare. ChildofMidnight (talk) 18:03, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Suggestion take 2

CoM, I agree with many others this was a bad block. It was a cool down block, made after some incivil remarks of yours, by an admin who stated he was drunk at the time. I think that stinks. That said, you have been your own worst enemy since. Cool down blocks simply don't cool one down, I know, but if you could try to take the advice Georgewilliamherbert and several others gave you, tried to be kind, even when others were not, and used the unblock template, you probably would have been unblocked some time ago. I am sorry this happened. Others clearly made mistakes here. But the only one you can control is yourself. Jonathunder (talk) 17:14, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Glane23

Nice rumaki photo! You da man. ChildofMidnight (talk) 07:04, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

A light snack

And this one. Classic! ChildofMidnight (talk) 07:07, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Shallots

I saw you posted stats on my marking as patrolled. But it seems to me that i patrolled many more articles than that. But I believe when they are actually edited, they are marked as patrolled, but don't show up in the log? Maybe I'm wrong. Anyway, that's what it looked like to me. It's rare that I just mark something patrolled because usually new articles need some work. So most of those I mark that way are redirects, or new articles by established editors. Anyway, just thinking "out loud" I guess and noting that the listing you posted is a small fraction of the articles I patrolled around that time. Unless I'm mistaken, which does occasionally happen... ChildofMidnight (talk) 07:04, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Unless I'm mistaken, the log I linked only lists articles where you specifically clicked "mark this page patrolled". If you don't click that on articles you edit, you may well have looked at lots more. No matter - there were enough there to make the point. LadyofShalott 14:47, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Roger. I appreciate the clarification. Take care. ChildofMidnight (talk) 15:40, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

GTBs finger

Someone go tell him I hope he's okay! Too much lifting. Even using the force (especially using the force?), you can do serious damage overworking your index finger. ChildofMidnight (talk) 07:11, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Please take a break

Really until your block is expired or "Some Sensible" admin would unblock you.--Caspian blue 17:42, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

P.S if you want to rant more, well....send me an email. --Caspian blue 17:44, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

I will not remain silent in the face of grotesque censorship and abuse of this kind now or ever. Some things are worth fighting for and I will never kowtow to ignorance and bias or the thugs that advance it as their cause. ChildofMidnight (talk) 17:47, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Doppels and case-insensitive redirects

Once you're back in action, you might consider registering User:Childofmidnight and User:Child of midnight; the CamelCase in your name means that the case-insentitive search function doesn't work properly. –xeno^talk 18:25, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Do you think I'm hard to find? ChildofMidnight (talk) 18:38, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

No, but for people like me who hate using the shift key, it would help ;p –xeno^talk 18:39, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

What would registering those accounts do Xeno? Are you suggesting they could be redirected here? I'm more inclined to want to make it more difficult for most of the simians around here to drop in than to aid their efforts. :) I'm thinking of adopting Stifle's method. Or a password system of some sort. :) ChildofMidnight (talk) 18:54, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

<snerk> yes, I was talking about registering them for redirect purposes. though you'll probably need an admin or acc to create them. so if you were joking above, and want them created, let me know =) –xeno^talk 18:56, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

BTW, something completely off-topic I've been curious about: is your user name related to Midnight's Children, the novel? Jonathunder (talk) 18:43, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Yes. Although some folk singer seems to have written a song under this name (about a chick he fancied), so many editors seem to think I'm a woman. Or maybe it's my soft touch? Fortunately for the hopeful and lonely, Jenna, Lady, and Iridescent are all better looking and a lot more fun than I am. ChildofMidnight (talk) 18:49, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Putting this here for now since I can't edit my userpage at the moment. Maybe once Connolley sobers up?

Wiel Arets

Wiel Arets (Heerlen, 14 mei 1955) is a Dutch architect. He graduated from the TU Eindhoven in 1983. In the following year he started his own firm, Wiel Arets architect & associates, in Heerlen. He prefers simple and abstract compositions. His palet is very sparse and he prefers black and white (including for his own clothes; he usually dresses in black).

His main claim to fame is his design for the Academie voor Beeldende Kunsten in Maastricht; his design for the Universiteitsbibliotheek in Utrecht is also praised. With Jo Coenen he collaborated in the restauration of the glaspaleis in his birthplace Heerlen, and designed a number of pharmacies (?) in the south of the Netherlands. In Hapert he designed a complete Medisch Centrum (Oude Provinciale weg 81/Lindenstraat Hapert). The form language of neo-modernisme is combined with an abstract, placid aesthetic. His favorite building material is the glass brick.

Awards

In 2005, Wiel Arets received the BNA-Kubus, the oldest award for architecture in the Netherlands. The jury appreciated the remarkable quality of his work and praises his extraordinary contribution to architecture. The Kubus is awarded annually since 1965; previous winners include Herman Hertzberger, Wim Quist, Jo Coenen, Jo van den Broek, Benthem Crouwel and Hubert-Jan Henket, and Wessel de Jonge.

Also in 2005 Arets received the Rietveldprijs for his design for the Universiteitsbibliotheek on De Uithof in Utrecht, which came with a check for 7500 euro. The Stichting Rietveldprijs awards the prize every other year to an architect who builds a remarkable building in Utrecht. Past winners include Koen van Velsen, Mart van Schijndel, and Rem Koolhaas.

References

The Dutch don't need no stinking references!

Seriously. The abuse of good faith editors needs to stop

I don't really care that much about the harassment I'm receiving. But this wp:ani#Never-ending disruption by Grundle2600 monstrous attack by pov pushers like Tarc, Allstarecho and Bigtimepeace is totally unacceptable.

Grundle has an interesting approach to be sure, and he's not perfect, but he's one of the most collegial and patient editors on here. He's created numerous good articles on many subjects including political topics like these:

• Freedom to Travel to Cuba Act
• Indiana State Police Pension Trust v. Chrysler
• Industrial Hemp Farming Act of 2009
• Air Force One photo op incident
• Ricci v. DeStefano
• Students for Concealed Carry on Campus

That he'd be banned from creating new articles of this kind by editors misrepresenting his work here is outrageous. The evidence they cite includes perfectly legitimate article subjects like Gerald Walpin firing that was censored and deleted at AfD. And now they're going after the Gerald Walpin article too, even though a simple google news search shows he's been notable for a long career of interesting legal work. Incompetence, dishonesty, and abuse appears to rule the day here on Wikipedia.

The editors going after him can't hold a candle to his article creation talents or good nature. Shame on them and all of you reading this for not stepping up to his defense. ChildofMidnight (talk) 17:36, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Wow! Thanks. I am very moved by what you said. Your statement really means a lot to me. Thank you very much. Grundle2600 (talk) 22:05, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

My sympathies

For what it's worth, that block is complete BS and Mathsci is overreacting. I used to think WMC was cool (he handled the whole Giovanni33 situation quite well), but this and a number of other recent things have caused me to revise my opinion of him.

I believe you're getting dumped on simply because you're unpopular with the segment of the community that wants to whitewash all Obama-related content. Jtrainor (talk) 21:00, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Don't know what WMC has to do with it but this note prompted me to look through the arbcom thing and on the diffs presented I agree at any rate the penalty looks a bit disproportionate to the crime. At the same time Arbcom have a habit of being too lenient with everyone to perhaps this is a brave new world. --BozMo talk 21:29, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Was referring to the drunkminning thing. WMC is not terribly related to the Obam article crew as far as I know. Jtrainor (talk) 22:23, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

I'm sorry that you got blocked too. At least I'm in good company! Grundle2600 (talk) 23:15, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Responded to your comments on my talk page, upset at the personal attacks contained therin.

Firstly, I must say that I am thoroughly hurt and offended at your blatant personally attack left on my talk page. I have been nothing but fair and balanced in my entire life at Wikipedia, and I have done nothing in my interactions with you to deserve such a rude and baseless attack on my integrity and character. However, buried within your baseless and incivil personal attacks were some legitimate concerns. I have responded on my talk page to those concerns; please read my response. If there is anything else I can do to accomodate or alleviate your concerns please let me know, but please also do so in a way that does not impugn my character or otherwise make rude and baseless claims against me which are patently untrue. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 00:29, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

More accusations of personal attacks. That's what I get for trying to discuss my concerns over an admin launching into campaigns against good faith editors alongside aggressive POV pushers and policy abusers. Oh well. Live and learn. ChildofMidnight (talk) 00:42, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Since you seem to be unaware of the problems with your initial comments, that you state that I "appear to have signed on with the POV pushers in hounding and targeting editors with whom they disagree over political issues" I find to be a baseless accusation. I make a single AFD nomination, and you extrapolate that into the idea that I am now signed on with POV pushers? And then you accuse me of censorship? I find that to be baseless and rude to attack me in that way. Seriously, I want to address your legitimate concerns over the article in question. Firstly, you seem to want to preserve the information on Obama firing this attorney. I think that is fine; there seems to be enough reliable sources to indicate that such an event is worth noting, even if it is not worth creating an entire article on that. The information is good, and if worded correctly it should probably be included somewhere. Secondly, that the person may be notable based on the number of "interesting cases" he has worked on. I find that to be a weak thing to hang a WP:BLP on, the fact that they worked on many "interesting cases". BLP-violations are a serious issue at Wikipedia, and I personally feel that borderline cases need to be handled carefully; this person is a real person and we should take the "do no harm" ethic seriously. However, I will concede that if sources can be produced which clearly meet the "directly address the subject with sufficient detail" standard at WP:N, I would gladly withdraw my nomination. If my comments above seem harsh, it is only in response to the personal nature with which your comments directly attacked my character. I was genuinely hurt by the personal nature of the comments you left. I had not once, before you accused me of POV-pushing and censorship, ever made any statements about your character at this level. If I have done something which has given you that impression, please let me work with you to fix this problem. I do not want to leave with anyone this impression, and I would like to work with you in fixing the legitimate concerns you have with the AFD I have made. I am reaching out in good faith, asking for you to help me find the material you say exists which prove this person is notable. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 00:55, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Jayron, it's simply not true that all you've done is "make a single AfD nomination", you've also been aggressive in pushing a topic ban on a good faith editor who has created numerous valuable articles on political subjects. He's being hounded, and you're playing a part in it. If you consider that a personal attack and can't assess your own role in the proceedings, I'm not sure how I can help you.

I tried to discuss my concerns with you on your talk page, and you came at me with highly uncivil accusations and implied threats. As I've indicated to you on your talk page, I'm not going to comment further, because your aggressive behavior towards me and your accusations that I'm making personal attacks are caustic. I consider myself censored from commenting on this further, because as an admin you have the power to make unilateral inappropriate blocks on me just like Connelley did, and there ain't nobody going to do shit about it. ChildofMidnight (talk) 01:14, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

If the comments above are what are causing the problem, then I will redact them. I have struck them through. I also want you to know that I have no intention of blocking you here. I wanted you to know about the effect that your comments had on me; that they were hurtful and upsetting, not that I have any intention of blocking you or in asking any other admin to block you. Let me take that off the table. I have no intention of doing so, and I apologize for giving you that impression. It was not my intention. Let's put that out there so that we can have a civil discussion over this. I will not block you, I will not ask any other admin to block you, and I will not endorse any block of you over this issue. I just want to see this worked through; and if that is what is concerning you and preventing you from feeling comfortable in discussing this, then please let me offer you my solemn word that I have no intentions in that direction. If you feel that other admins have treated you unfairly in the past regarding situations like this, I can do nothing about that. Given that I have been clear on this, can we please discuss ways to improve the Gerald Walprin article; as I stated on my talk page to Grundle2600, I am not opposed to saving this article, if you feel that it can be saved, I am open to being convinced. Please let me know what else you want me to do so you can feel comfortable in working together to resolve this. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 01:25, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

I appreciate this comment very much. It was not my intention to attack you personally, and I wouldn't have brought up my concerns at all if I didn't think you would be willing to consider them. I haven't worked with you, but I know you are an experienced admin, and truly I was very surprised to see you caught up in this affair.

I recognize that it's entirely possible you didn't know what you were getting mixed up in, but here's a brief primer for you. Numerous editors including Allstarecho, Phgustaf, Bigtimepeace, Tarc, Seicer, Wikidemon, Neutralhomer, Magnificentcleankeeper, Baseball Bugs and others have been very aggressive in going after editors with whom they disagree. NPOV is a core policy, yet I've been harassed and harangued, and have had these editors coming at me for months with numerous ANI reports, taunting, baiting, personal attacks, refactoring, collapsing comments etc. The situation has become so toxic and vile that most editors including veterans won't touch the articles in question. I participated in the ARbcom after a request from Wizardman to do so and in the hopes that at the very least the incivility could be reined in.

Despite the smear campaign against me I'm not any sort of right wing radical and I haven't advanced any fringe theories or edited any articles related to birth stuff or any of that. Grundle appears to be a libertarian (although people's personal politics shouldn't be relevant at all, but it's a testament the climate of fear and intimidation that has become so nasty that anyone trying to balance an article or to include something that isn't flattering of Obama had to constantly defend themselves).

Eventually after 7 ANI reports (as best I can recall) against me by Wikidemon and Allstarecho, all of them frivolous and rejected, Wikidemon had a content dispute with me on the ACORN article talk page, where he was arguing that NOTNEWS and BLP meant we couldn't include a Nevada Attorney general investigation into the organization, and I disputed his take since there was no mention of any names and notnews doesn't mean we don't use reliable and notable reports in the media (obviously). He took it to ANI. He had nothing, so he went digging in my history but found four edits I had made to another Obama article over two days (48 hours), and accused me of edit warring. There was discussion inbetween on the article talk page, but after a long back and forth with Wikidemon, an admin unilaterally blocked me with no warning and no prior discussion.

That block served as the core of the arbcom case against me, along with a copy edit to a talk page, and a supposed "templating" where I asked Wikidemon to please focus on article content and keep discussion on article discussion talk pages. So now I'm topic banned, which I don't think I've violated, but as I predicted, the grotesque miscarraige at ARbcom and the failure of Wizardman to really grasp the problem, has only emboldened the abusive editors involved.

Since Arbcom Phgustaff and Baseball Bugs have shown up posting numerous times on my talk page, in BB case even after I requested he stop. Allstarecho has launched one after another ANI reports, following Wikidemon's lead, against editor after editor. It's abusive. It's not how we're supposed to deal with content disputes. And it needs to stop.

Sorry for the long post. But that's where we are now with this hounding in full swing (and other editors have received the same treatment, but I don't really like to name names as it just makes them more of a target).

Anyway, cheers. I don't really have much more to say. Do what you want Jayron, but my concerns to you were genuine and the problem is all too real. Hopefully with this background you can get a better understanding of why topic banning editors based on complaints by Allstar and Neutralhomer is problematic? And picking off an editor's articles, many of them new, most of them notable and only needing appropriate editing and in some cases merger, is totally wrong and part of a campaign of censorship. Take care. It is what it is. There doesn't seem to be a willingness by any admins to do much about it, I guess they're just following arbcoms lead and can't be bother to properly investigate. ChildofMidnight (talk) 01:53, 26 June 2009 (UTC)