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Revision as of 19:44, 23 June 2010

Deletion Sorting
Project

This is a collection of discussions on the deletion of articles related to Bands and musicians. It is one of many deletion lists coordinated by WikiProject Deletion sorting. Anyone can help maintain the list on this page.

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Bands and musicians

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The result was keep per the lone reason for retention, accompanied by said article's improvement, which has not been rebutted. –MuZemike 22:46, 5 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

SubAudible Hum

SubAudible Hum (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • AfD statistics)
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fails WP:MUSIC. no signficant coverage [1]. LibStar (talk) 07:54, 21 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. no arguments for deletion MINUS the nom JForget 00:31, 18 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Pacha Man

Pacha Man (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • AfD statistics)
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NN artist, only trivial coverage CTJF83 pride 05:09, 21 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

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Since I can't read any of those, I can't verify if they are reliable sources. CTJF83 chat 03:57, 12 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was keep. inline citations inserted, snow support (non-admin closure) Off2riorob (talk) 08:23, 27 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Filipe Galvão

Filipe Galvão (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • AfD statistics)
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nn singer, nn songwriter, nn actor, and no third party sources in English. Contested PROD.   — Jeff G. ツ 22:39, 20 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - Looks notable to me. There are a number of decent sources in Portuguese; English sources aren't necessary.Minnowtaur (talk) 07:15, 21 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was Delete. Unfortunately the sources given do not rise to the level of "multiple non-trivial published works whose source is independent from the musician or ensemble itself and reliable." Promotional material, blogs, and personal web pages are obviously out. The situation may change in the future (for instance if/when the album comes out), but Wikipedia is not a crystal ball.Cúchullain t/c 18:18, 6 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Unisonic (band)

Unisonic (band) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • AfD statistics)
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It fails WP:BAND in all respects. No published music. All sources fail because they are from promotion companies, fan sites, and fan clubs. Contested PROD.   — Jeff G. ツ 18:26, 20 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comment WP:Crystal, how do you known they will get a record label? We can't predict the future. IJA (talk) 14:41, 21 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep. I just added links/references to the article, from "Michael Kiske's official website" and an interview with him as well. Is it a wikipedia rule that the band has to be signed to a label or to have an album out, in order for an article to be featured here? Mpaoxi (talk) 08:52, 21 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comment They are hardly third party reliable variable references IJA (talk) 14:41, 21 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comment/Keep Added further references ([8], [9], [10]) to the article.

IJA, can you please state what do you mean by 'They are hardly third party reliable variable references'? On the article, there are at least 6 different references on the band.

Jeff G, I just reviewed the WP:BAND and it clearly states that "A musician...may be notable if it meets at least one of the following criteria". The article meets the following criteria: "1. Has been the subject of multiple non-trivial published works whose source is independent from the musician or ensemble itself and reliable" - Michael Kiske and Dennis Ward have been featured in numerous musical albums, articles, etc. "4. Has received non-trivial coverage in a reliable source of an international concert tour, or a national concert tour in at least one sovereign country" - UNISONIC performed several concerts in Germany and also held a show in Sweden Rock Festival. "6. Is an ensemble which contains two or more independently notable musicians, or is a musician who has been a member of two or more independently notable ensembles" - Michael Kiske was Helloween's ex vocalist and he has worked with numerous artists, such as Gamma Ray, Avantasia and Masterplan. Kiske, Ward and Zafiriou were all memebers of the Place Vendome project, with which they released 2 albums.Mpaoxi (talk) 13:48, 22 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - Mpaoxi's comments are interesting but hardly significant when taken in context to this band. Notability is not transferred and depends upon verifiable reliable press for the subject. Where is the press or citations for the concerts mentioned? If trivial mentions are made, that is not significant and does meet the stated criteria. Ideally, the band should be the subject of multiple reputable magazines like Rolling Stone where their name appears in the title of the article or where they are directly covered and receive substantial mention within the article. ----moreno oso (talk) 14:00, 22 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - moreno oso, Official information on the mentioned concerts can be found here: [11], [12]and from a magazine [13]. Further general information on the band can be found here: [14] (Greek music magazine), [15] and [16]. I presume that when the band finds a record label, there will be more magazines issuing articles about their forthcoming albumMpaoxi (talk) 14:23, 22 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
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Keep - I personally see no serious reason to delete this article, except if the sources are not considered reliable. As mentioned earlier in the discussion, the article meets at least 2 criteria of the WP:BAND. In more detail: 1) "Has received non-trivial coverage in a reliable source of an international concert tour, or a national concert tour in at least one sovereign country" - UNISONIC performed in Sweden Rock Festival 2010 ([17], [18] and [19]). 2) "Is an ensemble which contains two or more independently notable musicians, or is a musician who has been a member of two or more independently notable ensembles" - Michael Kiske was Helloween's ex vocalist and he has worked with numerous artists, such as Gamma Ray, Avantasia and Masterplan. Kiske, Dennis Ward and Kostas Zafiriou were all memebers of the Place Vendome project, with which they released 2 albums. Ward and Zafiriou are also members of Pink Cream 69. Mpaoxi (talk) 09:50, 29 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. -- Cirt (talk) 01:02, 11 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Tony DeNiro

Tony DeNiro (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • AfD statistics)
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I apologize if this seems like a cleanup-AfD, but I'm not an expert on the topic at all. At least my google-search gave me a barrage of sources that I cannot evaluate for WP:RS. Bottom-line is, this thing has been tagged as unreferenced (BLP) since 2008 and no-one seems to have cared. Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 > haneʼ 09:57, 20 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Keep, I'm on the way to bed, but a quick search found lots of sources. It appears this article just needs some major cleanup, wikification, and work. Bhockey10 (talk) 10:45, 20 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

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  • Weak keep. I can't find much information about this person, but when this article was up for speedy deletion a couple of years ago, I did find this article which I added as a reference to indicate that there is some substance to the article. The article may need to be cut down to limit the content to what can be reliably sourced. --Metropolitan90 (talk) 20:59, 27 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
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  • Second relist rationale. The article is a BLP. --Ron Ritzman (talk) 00:05, 4 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment The subject clearly appears notable, but with no references to back up any of the claims made, such as "branding" hip hop and R&B stars and being a consultant to "award shows." Article is in terrible shape for Wikipedia and will need a monumental effort at cleanup to keep. Notability does not appear to be an issue, however there are no verifiable sources listed to prove such claims. Nineteen Nightmares (talk) 02:01, 4 July 2010 (UTC)Nineteen Nightmares[reply]
  • Delete ArticleThis is not a poorly-sourced article rather it is an article that lacks sourcing at all. The one reference supplied is weak at best and doesn't offer much in confirming any of the claims for the subject of this article. Looking at some of the information athletic information, I was able to confirm that some of the accomplishments listed in regards to the subject are untrue and am more than willing to post for reference. So if the authors of this article stand by these claims, they need to provide valid sources that back them up.Analyzerwiki 01 (talk) 02:52, 9 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete If no improvement takes place bringing the article up to Wiki standards. Nineteen Nightmares (talk) 00:28, 11 July 2010 (UTC)Nineteen Nightmares[reply]
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The result was delete. -- Cirt (talk) 04:28, 27 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

DJ Club

DJ Club (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • AfD statistics)
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DJ Club is an alter ego of Caleb Shomo, and this is a second article about him. Caleb Shomo was determined to be non-notable at AfD so this article should clearly follow the same path. However it's not a speedy candidate as recreation of deleted content because the articles existed in parallel before the AfD. It's possibly speedy deletable as housekeeping. Note that at some point an IP contested merge to Caleb Shomo (see the talk page) saying the two were distinct, but I dispute this: (1) it's just an alternate name for the same individual (DJ Club is not a band of which he is part), and (2) the subject of the article is Shomo.

Regardless of the other AfD, there is no indication that WP:MUSIC or WP:GNG are met.

If consensus is that notability is established, or such notability emerges, then arguably the Caleb Shomo article should be restored (and possibly merged). I42 (talk) 07:45, 20 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. Courcelles (talk) 00:16, 27 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Honky Tonk Confidential

Honky Tonk Confidential (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • AfD statistics)
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Non-notable band that fails WP:BAND. Contested PROD.   — Jeff G. ツ 14:56, 20 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. NativeForeigner Talk/Contribs 00:50, 28 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Boyce Avenue (band)

Boyce Avenue (band) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • AfD statistics)
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Band with no properly sourced indication of notability per WP:MUSIC; article is sourced entirely to myspace, youtube, facebook and last.fm (which aren't acceptable). Contested PROD.   — Jeff G. ツ 14:51, 20 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

If you're bringing an article here it's up to you to follow WP:BEFORE. People put appallingly ill-judged PROD tags on articles all the time. Can you point me to the section in WP:CONTESTED that states that when a PROD tag is removed from an article the next step is to take it to AFD? Many articles have prods removed because the subject is notable. I indicated when I deprodded it that I found coverage - you could have either raised it on the talk page or asked me what coverage I found rather than bringing it straight to AFD. --Michig (talk) 20:58, 20 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

*Delete - Unable to see how they meet WP:MUSIC - willing to change it it can be shown how. Codf1977 (talk) 20:21, 20 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Via coverage: Allmusic, Sun Herald, Herald Tribune, Manila Bulletin, Philipine Star - all look to be reliable sources, and there's further coverage in less obvious sources: [20], [21], [22], [23], although they're good enough for Google News. Given this coverage, I really don't see what the problem is re. notability, or why nobody else could find these sources.--Michig (talk) 20:32, 20 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Neutral - that is indeed coverage, some less significant than others, close to #1 on WP:MUSIC though not sure they pass it. Codf1977 (talk) 20:42, 20 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete - per nom. Fails WP:BAND as this group has not "been the subject of multiple non-trivial published works whose source is independent from the musician or ensemble itself and reliable." As per Codf1977's observation,, which I respect and trust, while this band has received coverage, it is not significant and seems trivial. ----moreno oso (talk) 12:06, 21 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Substantial articles specifically about the band in newspapers such as the Sarasota Herald-Tribune and The Philippine Star cannot be considered 'trivial coverage'.--Michig (talk) 15:35, 21 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. -- Cirt (talk) 21:10, 29 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Ruinz Ason

Ruinz Ason (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • AfD statistics)
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Label and producer of his album are unknown to Google except on Myspace and Wikipedia. The "album" is called a mixtabe here. I suspect lack of notability. Schuhpuppe (talk) 11:59, 20 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

More Links have been added to prove notibilty, Label is an independent production label by Ruinz Ason And his Brother J-Flames.
The reviewer starts off calling the Album a mixtape then at the ends says "In fact this is a street album not even a mixtape. "
In all links it mentions J- Flames as the producer of all Ruinz Ason's 3 releases. The article has been edited to address notability issues —Preceding unsigned comment added by Scriber1 (talk • contribs) 13:36, 20 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
If the producer is his brother, it's effectively self-published. --Schuhpuppe (talk) 14:43, 20 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was no consensus with leave to speedy renominate. (non-admin closure) Ron Ritzman (talk) 00:18, 4 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

We Can't Dance (band)

We Can't Dance (band) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • AfD statistics)
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Non-notable band, per WP:BAND and WP:GNG - but only just, so probably not a speedy candidate. Reached the lower postions of the indie chart, but not the national UK chart per the requirement on WP:BAND. One item in their local newspaper (which documents their bad luck and failure to chart) is not generally the level of coverage which meets WP:GNG. I42 (talk) 11:43, 20 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]


This band are now targeting an irish chart success, due to Gary Doherty being Irish, online magazine Ybig (You boys in green) have taken the song and are campaigning to make it number one in Ireland. http://www.ybig.ie/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=19604&PID=379677 Keep. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.147.245.44 (talk) 21:14, 26 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Currently insufficient showing of notability per discussion, however, I've userfied the page for the author. If add'l sources can be located, the article can be readily restored. Xymmax So let it be written So let it be done 13:24, 27 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Vanessa Hillman

Vanessa Hillman (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • AfD statistics)
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Non-notable local singer. Lacks GHits and GNEWS of substance. Article references do not provide "non-trivial" coverage. Article appears to fail WP:BIO and WP:MUSIC. ttonyb (talk) 04:52, 20 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was merge to Tomas Kalnoky. Merge any notable information. NativeForeigner Talk/Contribs 00:50, 28 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Gimp (band)

Gimp (band) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • AfD statistics)
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no notability shown independent of a later band or of one notable member. no coverage in independent reliable sources. nothing satisfying wp:music duffbeerforme (talk) 02:37, 20 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. The Gazette is a solid source. Shimeru 07:28, 26 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Oliver Haze

Oliver Haze (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • AfD statistics)
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I cannot seem to find any sources about him but I don't know if being number one on the BDS charts qualifies under WP:MUSIC. Oddly enough, there's no listing at Billboard are at Allmusic. Ricky81682 (talk) 20:42, 19 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep Unfortunatly I think this does indeed meet WP:BAND unser: "Has had a single or album on any country's national music chart." other than that it should go realy, so I don't mind if a lose this one. And yes there seemingly aren't any sources arround --Wintonian (talk) 21:13, 19 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete unless someone comes up with a source that says he actually did have that hit, I can't find any evidence of it. He's mentioned practically nowhere on the entire internet apart from youtube and a couple of forum posts, so deleting as unnotable seems perfectly reasonable. Dylanfromthenorth (talk) 22:37, 19 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I've added all the reasonably reliable sources that I could find. I'm not sure of what consitutes a "hit" or sufficient rotation. (I normally edit opera articles.) But here are the results from the compilation of Canadian record charts archived at the Bibliothèque et Archives nationales du Québec (see the article for the link):

    "My world is you" (2000) reached #15, 11 weeks in the charts

    "Holy water" (2001) reached #2, 15 weeks in the charts

    "Save a prayer" (2001) reached #14, 12 weeks in the charts

    There's also a link to the rotation on MuchMusic for the week ending 30 June 2001. Voceditenore (talk) 06:50, 20 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. -- Cirt (talk) 00:38, 26 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Short Dawg

Short Dawg (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • AfD statistics)
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This page was thrice turned into a redirect but was restored each time by thagenius Marcus Qwertyus (talk) 20:36, 19 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Short Dawg is NOT Too Short, I'm confused as to why this page keeps being redirected to a man who's alias is spelled differently as Short Dog and are two totally different people. Please help me understand as to why this keeps occuring. ThaGenius (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 20:52, 19 June 2010 (UTC).[reply]

  • This article is on its right path. There is no need to delete the article as there are no misleading statements on here. People need to learn how to spell who they are looking for. This is Shorty's (Short Dawg's) page and deserves every right to be up here like any other rapper. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.236.134.66 (talk) 20:52, 24 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. -- Cirt (talk) 00:37, 26 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Daniel Boner

Daniel Boner (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • AfD statistics)
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A Google hits scan shows nothing but his MySpace page and only a few other non-notable and unimportant trivial sites. The creator (Dandog9209d) is, given his username, Daniel Boner himself and looking for self-promotion. Jrcla2 (talk) 16:38, 19 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. -- Cirt (talk) 00:35, 26 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Nikolas Schreck

Nikolas Schreck (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • AfD statistics)
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Unreferenced BLP, notability questionable, article full of gossip. Yworo (talk) 05:39, 19 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. -- Cirt (talk) 01:18, 30 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Zeena Schreck

Zeena Schreck (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • AfD statistics)
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Long unreferenced BLP, questionable notability, full of gossip Yworo (talk) 05:30, 19 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. no consensus for deletion after 3 weeks JForget 01:28, 10 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

SA TrackWorks Productions

SA TrackWorks Productions (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • AfD statistics)
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vanispamcruftisement Orange Mike | Talk 21:12, 18 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. -- Cirt (talk) 00:36, 26 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Greg Packer (DJ)

Greg Packer (DJ) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • AfD statistics)
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Does not appear to meet notability requirements, lacks any verifiable reliable sources, and I am unable to find significant coverage  Chzz  ►  01:48, 19 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus. no consensus on whether meets WP:MUSICBIO JForget 01:22, 10 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Alka Ajith

Alka Ajith (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • AfD statistics)
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Delete per WP:MUSICBIO. -- Alan Liefting (talk) - 23:22, 18 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

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again, this is supposed to be a discussion about whether the article subject meets Wikipedia's inclusion guidelines, which are based on whether there is significant coverage in reliable sources. Please explain how the sources in the article are insufficient rather than saying "just not notable". Phil Bridger (talk) 21:58, 26 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Inclusion in WP needs reliable sources and to be able to meet notability guidelines. This bio article does not meet the notability guidelines that I referred to. -- Alan Liefting (talk) - 02:30, 27 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I second you Alan Liefting .--Doctor muthu's muthu wanna talk ? 11:29, 27 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. -- Cirt (talk) 04:34, 27 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Danagog

Danagog (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • AfD statistics)
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  • I think this article should be given a chance because it reflects the life of a young Nigerian entertainer and the struggles of single-handedly being an achiever Damilae (talk) 16:57, 21 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, that is not what Wikipedia is for. It's not for helping someone to climb in their career - it's for recording them when they get notable. With the current references, little or no chance. Blogs and own sites don't count as reliable. Peridon (talk) 21:31, 21 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was keep as the reasons for deletion have been rebutted with the improvements as noted in the reasons for retention. –MuZemike 00:23, 26 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Juan Gotti

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Delete. Completely unverified BLP article. JBsupreme (talk) ✄ ✄ ✄ 05:41, 18 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus. Courcelles (talk) 04:36, 16 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Culture (US band)

Culture (US band) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • AfD statistics)
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Fails Wikipedia's notability guidelines for musical ensembles. Neelix (talk) 15:10, 18 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. -- Cirt (talk) 03:56, 25 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Nikki Gordon-Bloomfield

Nikki Gordon-Bloomfield (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • AfD statistics)
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Non-notable BLP. Refs are not V/RS. GregJackP (talk) 22:05, 18 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Can you give an idea as to what refs are needed for inclusion? She's a motoring journalist and broadcaster; notable. Would a change from musician to broadcaster/journalist help? --Steve Radford (talk) 17:13, 19 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment - there need to be verifiable and reliable sources that are independent of the subject. Self-published material is neither, nor or blogs, facebook, itunes, podcasts, twitter, myspace, youtube, etc. My check showed only 1 GNews hit, an article written by the subject. There are 2 GBooks hits, 1 where she was the editor and 1 with only a passing mention. 1 GScholar hit (the book she edited, above). No significant GHits that I could find. I believe that she would have to meet the criteria under WP:CREATIVE or WP:ENT, and I don't see how she does so. Good luck, GregJackP (talk) 13:18, 21 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

As Zero10one said here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Nikki_Gordon-Bloomfield Nikki is very important in the EV community and as such should remain. --Steve Radford (talk) 22:23, 19 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

One of Nikki's podcasts has been listed on Podcast Bunker's for its quality. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.98.155.6 (talk) 16:18, 21 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

References to Bristol Evening Post, and Divine Art music database have been added as well as a redirect from her pre-marital name.--Steve Radford (talk) 22:38, 22 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. –MuZemike 00:08, 26 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Still Remains

Still Remains (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • AfD statistics)
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Appears to fail WP:BAND guidelines. I can find some reviews on Google News but nothing that seems to satisfy the requirement for being "non-trivial" in the BAND criteria. The article states "minor UK chart success" but is not clear about what this means or can provide non-trivial sources. Fæ (talk) 09:03, 18 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Refs added. Lugnuts (talk) 17:11, 18 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
References to the roadrunnerrecords.com are not third party. See PSTS. Fæ (talk) 17:28, 18 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
primary sources are reliable when speaking about themselves. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 18:02, 18 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
That's correct. I'm not suggesting they are removed but self-published sources do not demonstrate a subject is notable (the point of the nomination here) no matter how many times they claim to be on their own website. Fæ (talk) 08:40, 19 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

1.) Still Remains was signed to Roadrunner Records, one of the largest U.S. hard rock/heavy metal record labels. Many smaller bands that were/are signed to much smaller indie labels avoid deletion somehow, so why delete Still Remains?

2.) Although this band did not sell millions, they headlined numerous national tours and were brought on tours with many larger acts such as Bullet For My Valentine, Shadows Fall, Aiden, and Hawthorne Heights.

3.) This band did in fact have a single ("Dancing With The Enemy") that landed on the charts.

4.) Songs by Still Remains made their way onto significant compilation albums and members of Still Remains were involved in musical projects with prominent hard rock/heavy metal musicians such Slipknot, Fear Factory, Machine Head, and Trivium.

If deletion of non-notable bands is something that is trying to be done, I feel that the smallest, least notable bands be proposed for deletion well before acts like Still Remains.

Hsxeric (talk) 09:53, 20 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. -- Cirt (talk) 03:51, 25 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Crosswind (band)

Crosswind (band) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • AfD statistics)
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Does not appear to meet music notability guidelines. Nakon 02:07, 18 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Nakon, yes it does. As explained before the band is legit. They have discography, the have toured, they have merchandise, they are active and they meet the criteria. Please re-consider. I appreciate your assistance, thank you. Jason16a (talk) 04:43, 18 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. -- Cirt (talk) 00:42, 24 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

D.a.m.n.

D.a.m.n. (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • AfD statistics)
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Non-notable band that fails WP:BAND. Aspects (talk) 20:42, 17 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Not able to find adequate independent sources. NativeForeigner Talk/Contribs 00:31, 25 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Emile (producer)

Emile (producer) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • AfD statistics)
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Non notable record producer. Padillah (talk) 12:53, 17 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

This article was PRODed on 7 June 2010 but the tag was removed by an anon IP. This is the second time in two weeks an editor has thought this subject was non-notable, I think this discussion needs to be documented. Padillah (talk) 12:55, 17 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

  • DON'T Delete Everyone in the music industry knows that Emile is notable off of Kid Cudi's debut album. SMH...seems like a lot of people editing stuff that don't know relevancy in the music industry. 15:03, 18 June 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.242.255.56 (talk)
    If you can provide sources that state his importance that will work fine. Wikipedia has to have sources for any claim it posts. If you can get those sources then by all means save the article. As for the dig at what people know or don't know, that's not for you to say. You have no idea who I am, how can you possibly know what I know? I never said he wasn't influential. I never said he wasn't relevant. I said he's not notable and notability is it's own status. Statements like those are considered Personal attacks and are not tolerated very well here. Padillah (talk) 19:34, 18 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was no consensus. Spartaz Humbug! 06:29, 9 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Sam Verlinden

Sam Verlinden (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • AfD statistics)
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fails WP:BIO and WP:MUSIC. no extensive coverage [33]. have a lot of hits on youtube does not advance notability see WP:BIG. LibStar (talk) 06:17, 17 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep - Sources already in article ([34] [35]) constitute significant coverage in reliable independent sources. One of the sources also refers to him being a guest on Sunrise (New Zealand TV program), which I am unable to find a clip of but would also constitute significant coverage by a reliable independent source. - DustFormsWords (talk) 06:29, 17 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak Delete - The argument for notability seems to be based on a "flash in the pan" occurrence, see WP:NRVE. One notorious appearance as a variety act and success in talent shows is a weak case for notability unless the talent contests are particularly noteworthy (unsure on this). The article also seems heavily geared toward promoting the subject rather than reporting on it, though that could be salvaged with rewrites and neutral sources. Csrwizard (talk) 07:06, 17 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
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  • Delete without prejudiceif his career should happen to take off again. Only one news result since November 2008 (singing at Christmas in the Park). From what I've read, there is no national competition to qualify for the Hollywood competition - just one talent agency organises a team. Appearing on "Sunrise" per se certainly isn't proof of notability.dramatic (talk) 10:25, 20 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep - Sources already in article re Sunrise TV interview ([36]

Confirming there is a National NZ Competition to qualify for Hollywood competition 'Aim to Fame' [www.aimtofame.co.nz] Source has been working in NZ professional musical theatre productions, ie; 'Oliver' with the Auckland Theatre Company and as 'John' in Peter Pan with National Youth Theatre Company, 'Young Tommy' in the Tommy Musical with Stage Two Productions and just recently as Macduff's son in Macbeth with Stage Two Productions. This source is 12 years old with a solid career ahead of him. Currently sitting around 22nd most subscribed musician in New Zealand. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.236.167.8 (talk) 10:03, 21 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus with leave to speedy renominate. (non-admin closure) Ron Ritzman (talk) 01:16, 30 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The 18th Street Singers

The 18th Street Singers (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • AfD statistics)
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I can't find significant coverage for this band. Joe Chill (talk) 21:07, 16 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. -- Cirt (talk) 03:58, 25 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Yura Železnik

Yura Železnik (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • AfD statistics)
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This article is about a violinist that does not meet notability. The article includes one profile from the Epoch Times Isreal which is in Hewbrew. Using Google translation on the page, it appears to be a nice write up for an artists who is still trying to make it although it's difficult to tell sometimes how well the machine translation worked.

However, I can find no other sources writing about this musician. Although not a reason for deletion, the article appears to be an autobiography and suffers from neutrality problems, including previous versions containing copied biographical from the artist's web site. Whpq (talk) 19:00, 16 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

  • Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k (talk) 00:59, 17 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment the two major contributors to the article are Mrzeleznik (talk · contribs) and Yurazeleznik (talk · contribs) whose only contributions are to this subject[37][38]. It seems like two accounts for one user. Further, both have warning notices about their editing habits on both their talk pages. 70.29.212.131 (talk) 04:44, 17 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak delete. Can't find any reliable secondary sources that attest to this person's notability - all I can find is his own site, and myspace-type sites. Also, can find no evidence of commercially-produced work - only an apparently self-published "album". (My recommendation is "weak" because there might be other language sources that are good enough, and I'm limited to English). Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 12:33, 17 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment - I'm also aware that there may be non-english sources. There is the Epoch Times article in Hebrew is dated from 2007. But that article says the artists was still looking to get his first album out. In the intervening years, it doesn't appear that he has been signed to a major label (or any label at all). The biography on his website does some name dropping, and there is a claim to touring and playing in England. If any of that were notable, I'd expect to see something in English sources, but there is nothing. The band he was with in England, "Eugine Sokolot" also turns up nothing in a Google search. There may very well be non-English sources, and I would happily review them if they were available (and get a decent translation), but I suspect that there isn't likely much out there. -- Whpq (talk) 13:19, 17 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
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  • Delete - No evidence from WP:RS is provided in the article that he meets the requirements of WP:MUSICBIO. Release of two or more albums on a major label would be evidence of notability, but I don't think he has anything on a major label. I tried to figure out if 'Tornado' was an actual album issued by some publisher, but there is nothing to that effect. Concert tours, if there were any, should normally produce press coverage. The 2007 article in the Hebrew version of Epoch Times seems to anticipate the appearance of an album some time in the future. EdJohnston (talk) 01:12, 24 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was keep. Substantial additional sources have been identified in the course of this AFD and there have been no arguments for deletion (and numerous for retention) in the subsequent two weeks. (non-admin closure) Mkativerata (talk) 21:21, 6 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Gonjasufi

Gonjasufi (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • AfD statistics)
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No substantial indication of notability for 3 months. All sources are first person or similarly not reliable sources Shadowjams (talk) 07:25, 16 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

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But an obviously notable one that already has sources (one URL was broken - I've fixed it). Why relist?--Michig (talk) 05:45, 30 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was no consensus with leave to speedy renominate. (non-admin closure) Ron Ritzman (talk) 01:43, 30 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

J.Viewz

AfDs for this article:
J.Viewz (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • AfD statistics)
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Mostly a procedural nom per Jeff G's prod, which was removed by an IP primarily involved in editing this page. The underlying concern is substantial: no sources that aren't first person for a band, and no substantial editing outside of those select editors. Shadowjams (talk) 05:27, 16 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus. Listed for 14 days with no arguments for deletion aside from the nominator but not enough participation to determine consensus. (non-admin closure) Ron Ritzman (talk) 01:41, 30 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Beki and the Bullets

Beki and the Bullets (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • AfD statistics)
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fails WP:MUSIC. I query the citations listed as those sources usually come up in gnews. 1 hit in gnews in a Turkish newspaper. [39] LibStar (talk) 04:55, 16 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. treating as prod Spartaz Humbug! 06:07, 8 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Adelaide's cape

Adelaide's cape (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • AfD statistics)
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Notability. Already deleted once, a while back, so things might have changed. Chris (talk) 03:13, 16 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The following was posted on my talk page, and I moved it here:

Hello there...

I think that Adelaide's Cape has enough notable sources/achievements to be included on Wikipedia now (BBC, The Independent, mainstream festival appearances confirmed etc). He has surely achieved as much as The Kabeedies, who have a page here? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Kabeedies Would be interested to hear your thoughts. Hope I'm discussing this in the right place?

Lauren —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jigsawlauren (talk • contribs) 19:23, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

The thing is that none of the independent references or sources you have given are actually about the band; they're all about the event. Let's see what other people think... Chris (talk) 07:51, 17 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]


The BBC article is exclusively about Adelaide's Cape, and links to statements about the festivals he's playing surely provide relevant references? I've added in a link to the Wychwood website where Adelaide's Cape is listed now too http://www.wychwoodfestival.com/line-up/bbc-introducing/. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jigsawlauren (talk • contribs) 08:55, 17 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. –MuZemike 00:48, 7 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Shahram Solati

Shahram Solati (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • AfD statistics)
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This is a musician who does not obviously meet WP:BAND but whose article has been edited by a lot of people since 2006. The article gives no references but says that he has been called a "hero" of Persian pop music and "a sound over all sounds," which may indicate some cultural status, but nothing is explained or referenced.

I am unable to find any evidence that any of his albums were successful enough to make this person notable. Blue Rasberry 02:03, 16 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. -- Cirt (talk) 00:11, 1 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Shahyad

Shahyad (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • AfD statistics)
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This is a musician. The current version of this article does not meet WP:BAND. I checked a few historical versions; they do not meet this either.

I would have CSD'd this, but the article has been around almost entirely in this form since 2006. The guy does have four albums, and they seem to all have generated some promotional interviews, but I do not think he has been promoted outside the context of his own music, and I do not think his music style is notable for any particular reason, but I would bring this to discussion anyway just because of the longevity and edit history of this article. Blue Rasberry 01:47, 16 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. T. Canens (talk) 01:18, 29 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Moe Rock

Moe Rock (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • AfD statistics)
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Article's subject is a musician who has not released an album. He seems to meet WP:BAND only by having a single on a country's national music chart, as it is stated that his song "Baby June" reached position 97 in Ireland in 2010 and 1xx positions in New Zealand, Switzerland, and Sweden.

The interviews used as references seem to be self-promotion with conversation about politics in Iran coming secondary; from the content now in the article, this person is pushed as notable for his music and except for the unreferenced chart positions, I do not think he meets notability criteria.

By the way, what chart positions matter? Does having a single that makes spot 97 make one notable? What about over a hundred? Has a line been demarcated? Blue Rasberry 01:29, 16 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I also just nominated Baby June (Moe Rock song) for deletion. Blue Rasberry 01:34, 16 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for your inquiry The page has met the required necessities for notability according to the Criteria for musicians and ensembles found at the following: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:MUSIC —Preceding unsigned comment added by Metroparkoil (talk • contribs) 23:01, 16 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

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  • Delete IRMA only lists top 50 singles at their site (including archives eg). Unless they publish a report showing top 100 I'd say the unsourced #97 is not good enough. I'd also say the unsourced outside to 100 also falls short. Lacks coverage in independent reliable sources. duffbeerforme (talk)
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The result was Delete Sarah 15:59, 24 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Peachfuzz

Peachfuzz (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • AfD statistics)
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fails WP:MUSIC. could not find specific coverage for this Australian band. there's organisations and sporting teams called peachfuzz in chicago and UK but not the same as this one. [42] LibStar (talk) 01:43, 16 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]


Hi. This is the user Schmozzle, who created the Peachfuzz entry. The reason you can't find anything on the web for the band is that it basically predates the era when the web came into popular use for musicians. I (Stefan Schutt) was in the band Peachfuzz, which was popular in Melbourne and nationally between 1992 and 1995, as the article states. I have dozens of reviews, articles and the like about the band, but these have not been translated onto the web. It is listed in the Australia Who's Who of Music (only available in hard copy) and since then other bands have taken on the name. The problem with using Internet references as the logic for removing the page is that this can become a self-fulfilling prophecy: the reason I created the entry was that the band's career, which was important to the local music scene, had not been documented sufficiently. There is a real danger of Wikipedia adopting a circular logic that will mean that anything created prior to the internet era that is still not in online circulation will be deleted from our collective history. This is especially the case for localised but significant cultural activities and organisations like our band. I am happy to scan and send any evidence of the band's career - but please don't assume that just because it's not seen online, it didn't exist or wasn't important. Thanks. Schmozzle (talk) 00:42, 21 June 2010 (UTC) Schmozzle —Preceding unsigned comment added by Schmozzle (talk • contribs) 00:38, 21 June 2010 (UTC) — Schmozzle (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]

non web references are permitted but you must cite them properly. most Australian newspapers are covered in online archives for past 30 years, so it is highly unusual for a notable band not to get significant online coverage. LibStar (talk) 00:48, 21 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It depends what you call 'notable' and which papers you mean. In Melbourne, the only dedicated music coverage in the two newspapers is the EG in The Age - a foldout section on a Friday that had a particular slant on what it covered. This also ignores the street papers and magazines that no longer exist (eg the Form Guide). The local Fitzroy indie scene of the early 90s, of which we were part, was important in the cultural history of the city and the country's music scene, but was not always covered by the daily papers at the time. Also, online archives are selective and don't always cover specialist areas. In my case, I have hard copies of the articles and cite them.

Another point on the perceived conflict of interest: usually with smaller bands (as well as other cultural activities) that were around some time ago, the 'keepers' of the info on them is with the people who were involved with them. I don't think that's a COI unless it affects the tone or objectivity of the article written. Schmozzle (talk) 01:01, 21 June 2010 (UTC) Schmozzle[reply]


Further to the above comments: as well as the posting of references and other details on the Peachfuzz page, I have been looking at Wikipedia's notability criteria for musicians and ensembles.

It says that a musician or ensemble may be notable if it meets at least one of a group of criteria. I believe that Peachfuzz meets the following criteria: 

  1. Has been the subject of multiple non-trivial published works whose source is independent from the musician or ensemble itself and reliable.[note 1]
         * This criterion includes published works in all forms, such as newspaper articles, books, magazine articles, online versions of print media, and television documentaries[note 2] except for the following:
               o Any reprints of press releases, other publications where the musician or ensemble talks about themselves, and all advertising that mentions the musician or ensemble, including manufacturers' advertising.[note 3]
               o Works comprising merely trivial coverage, such as articles that simply report performance dates, release information or track listings, or the publications of contact and booking details in directories.
               o Articles in a school or university newspaper (or similar) would generally be considered trivial but should be evaluated on a case-by-case basis.

Note: of the references I have added to the article, one is from a university paper (Lot's Wife) but the others are from the street press, one from a regional paper (Forte), one from a national music magazine (the now-defunct Juice), and the listing in the Who's Who of Australian Rock. 

  5. Has released two or more albums on a major label or one of the more important indie labels (i.e., an independent label with a history of more than a few years and a roster of performers, many of which are notable).

We had one LP released by Mushroom Record on their Temptation development label, plus two others with national pressing and distribution deals: MDS (also a Mushroom company) and Shock. 


  6. Is an ensemble which contains two or more independently notable musicians, or is a musician who has been a member of two or more independently notable ensembles.

Peachfuzz drummer Cameron Potts is a notable Melbourne musician, who plays or played in well-known local bands NinetyNine, Baseball, Sandro and Cuba is Japan. He has his own dedicated Wikipedia page. 

  7. Has become one of the most prominent representatives of a notable style or the most prominent of the local scene of a city; note that the subject must still meet all ordinary Wikipedia standards, including verifiability.

Peachfuzz was recognised as a leading exponent of the Fitzroy Scene of the early to mid 1990s, which also spawned recognised bands such as the Mavis's and the Lucksmiths 

 10. Has performed music for a work of media that is notable, e.g. a theme for a network television show, performance in a television show or notable film, inclusion on a notable compilation album, etc.

Peachfuzz had songs included in two national TV shows: Police Rescue and Simon Townsend's Wonder World 

 11. Has been placed in rotation nationally by any major radio network.

A number of Peachfuzz's songs (Hurt You, Beautiful Fire and Who Loves You) were on high rotation on national youth radio station JJJ. 

 12. Has been the subject of a half-hour or longer broadcast across a national radio or TV network.

Peachfuzz undertook an extended live to air on national radio station JJJ in 1994

121.219.254.65 (talk) 13:52, 22 June 2010 (UTC)Schmozzle (talk) 14:01, 22 June 2010 (UTC)Schmozzle (sorry, forgot to log in before editing)[reply]

  • Comment Regardless, you need to provide sources about the JJJ thing. Actually, you need to provide sources over all of those claims. Also, it seems to me that Schmozzle may have a COI thing going on with this band. Undead Warrior (talk) 20:23, 22 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

In response to Undead Warrior: - could you please state the basis in the Wikipedia guidelines for your claim of a COI

- I have tried to find the references for the JJJ playlist but have not been able to find records. Again, the issue is whether or not records were kept and if they're available. I understand the onus is on proof but what if it does not exist in electronic form, except in the experiences of those who took part? In some cases, perhaps the fact that the claim is on Wikipedia means that, like in scientific papers when claims are made, it is in the public domain and open to challenge by anybody. I have tapes of the live to airs, the interviews, the APRA royalty statements for airplay etc, but how to turn that into sources in an online article?

What follows is a more detailed examination of this discussion to date, in the interests of furthering Wikipedia and how it works.

- further to my initial point about history in the age of the Internet: there's an arbitrary aspect to whether or not certain content appears on the internet, particularly when that content predates the internet. This is only partly related to the validity of the content. The web is a self-archiving system, and if our band had been around now, a lot of the discussion on it that appeared in fanzines and other offline forums would now be on the web. And even then there is variation. For instance, my partner played in a band called Snog in the 1990s. There is a lot more information on the web about Snog, partly because a) they lasted longer into the web age, whereas our band broke up when the web really got going, and b) Snog were an electronic industrial band, and the kinds of people who followed them were by default more into using technology than the people who were into indie rock.

- further to the last point: I wonder whether the kinds of people who have the time and energy to become Wikipedia volunteers are generally 'internet era' people, ie younger than people like me who weren't brought up with the internet. For those people, the internet has always been there, and so for them the default check as to whether something exists or is 'notable' is Google (or similar). There is a real danger here of missing a lot of localised pre-internet things that happened, that matter, but that have not left much of a trace on the web.

- Wikipedia is a reference resource - in that context, the online popularity of particular content is a flawed measure of its worth. You don't include or exclude content from an encyclopedia or dictionary based on how many people talk about it. Rather it's whether the content adds to the comprehensive coverage of a particular knowledge area.

- on the topic of Conflicts of Interest: the case for a COI is harder to make when the band has broken up, because there's no self-interest in promoting it beyond a certain desire to maintain legacy (as in my case). And as stated previously, those interested in maintaining legacy are usually those who have been involved in the activity - here I think of my local historical society, based on the site of an old prison, whose members are mainly warders etc of the prison

- Remember that Wikipedia article creators are learning as they go, and sometimes they don't know that they're doing something wrong. I keep learning constantly on things like the attribution of license to images, layout of articles etc. Wikipedia rules are complex and are sometimes discovered through trial and error. Finding the right way to do things on Wikipedia is sometimes not easy. Be patient with us if we are contributors with goodwill. For instance, I have only just discovered that there's a talk area for users, and so have only just seen a very useful discussion on an article for a current band of mine that I created and that was deleted in January.

- I have to say that I am disturbed about Undead Warrior's call for speedy deletion of the Peachfuzz article, but heartened by the fact that Wikipedia's internal checks resulted in the CSD being overruled. My understanding is that CSDs were designed to be used for content that is gratuitous, offensive, pointless or misleading. The Peachfuzz article was none of the above, and the CSD was based only on a questioning of the band's notability and the fact that more references were needed. A CSD could be used to shut down the kind of debate and discussion that is now taking place here, and that helps to inform the development of Wikipedia.

Thank you for reading.

Schmozzle (talk) 23:20, 22 June 2010 (UTC)Schmozzle[reply]

  • Note: This debate has been included in the list of Australia-related deletion discussions. —LibStar (talk) 00:51, 23 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - The overly detailed defence is unnecessary, and unlikely to convince any editors, especially coming from a former member of the band in question. In fact, it screams non-notable. But for what it's worth, the Who's Who source and a few of the magazine citations seem like they might be valid demonstrations of notability (although maybe not - the book explicitly states that it covers even "obscure" bands). Could you provide some context, perhaps a quote from Who's Who? And for the magazines, we need a bit more information than just name and year - please add issue numbers (unless of course it's an annual).--Yeti Hunter (talk) 11:02, 23 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]


OK, thanks for that feedback.

Sorry my reply was lengthy - but it was only partly about defending the article. In the end you guys will decide what is considered appropriate for Wikipedia, regardless of what I say. The other stuff I raised is more about the larger issues this example raises about what you see as valid as history or evidence: ie is it only considered to have existed if it's on the web? Wikipedia is now considered an authoritative and valued resource, has a huge reach, and as such I think this issue an important one to raise, because keepers of Wikipedia like yourselves will have a big say in deciding what part of our past is remembered and what is forgotten. (Here I have to out myself as a university researcher in history and the internet).

As regards the article, I will add magazine page and issue numbers (I had not put them in because the Wikipedia referencing guidelines said not to!) and will find the edition and quote from the Who's Who. Should I put the quote in the body of the article or here?

In deciding notability, the guidelines say that a band is considered notable if it meets one of the criteria (commented on above). So if it is deleted, will it be on the basis that it doesn't meet all of these? Or is it a more subjective decision? Similarly, is there a guideline that says that being a member of a band, then creating an article about it, constitutes a COI? I haven't seen it. I'm not trying to be difficult here, just to get some clarity about your terms of reference.Schmozzle (talk) 06:40, 24 June 2010 (UTC)Schmozzle[reply]

No, as mentioned above, offline references are fine, but they must be specifically identified, and much more importantly, reliable. The vast majority of deletions occur because the article could not be verified by multiple, reliable secondary sources. This page does cite sources, but are they reliable, and if they are do they demonstrate the notability of the band? That is, is their coverage by that source non-trivial? The magazine Beat, for example, seems to be a local Melbourne gig guide. This doesn't really count as a reliable source - it's basically promotional material. If their performances were covered by a newspaper that might give you a better argument.
If you want to give a quote from the source to help decide if it establishes notability, post it here or at the article discussion page, not the article mainspace.
Yes, writing about a band you were a member of constitutes COI, but it is not necessarily an issue as long as the article is written neutrally and in an encyclopaedic style.--Yeti Hunter (talk) 12:40, 24 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was no consensus with leave to speedy renominate. (non-admin closure) Ron Ritzman (talk) 01:35, 30 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Blueline Medic

Blueline Medic (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • AfD statistics)
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fails WP:MUSIC and WP:GNG. no significant indepth coverage. a few gnews hits but not enough for significant coverage. [43]. LibStar (talk) 01:51, 16 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was redirect to Real Chance of Love (season 1). –MuZemike 00:45, 7 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Ahmad Givens

Ahmad Givens (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • AfD statistics)
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This bio is entirely unsourced. A search in GoogleNews comes up with nothing, which indicates that perhaps this article should be deleted. PinkBull 04:05, 15 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Weak keep he and his brother appeared on several reality television programs and were even the subject of their own show, which aired for two seasons. The news link above does return results. If it is decided that there isn't enough material for an individual article, then I would suggest redirecting the page to Real Chance of Love, and merging the most important information there. Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 05:09, 15 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for pointing out the Google News results. The regular Google News search turns up nothing.[44] I can't explain the discrepancy. Regardless, five positive results alone do not establish notability, in my opinion.--PinkBull 16:26, 15 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: Reality show contestants are non encyclopedic. Dr. Blofeld White cat 16:36, 15 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
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  • Keep there are reliable sources and I see no reason why to delete this interesting article. --Rirunmot 00:30, 22 June 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rirunmot (talk • contribs)
  • Delete - notability not established at this time, sources are blogs and short blurbs, hard to see how the article will get better unless he becomes better known. SeaphotoTalk 04:50, 22 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was no consensus. Shimeru 19:58, 24 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Mugdha Vaishampayan

Mugdha Vaishampayan (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • AfD statistics)
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overly promotional, and lacks reliable sources to meet WP:MUSIC. hardly anything in gnews [45] despite the glowing claims of the article. LibStar (talk) 00:55, 15 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - does not meet WP:MUSICBIO. She placed second in a singing reality show and has sung one song for another TV show. The awards she has received are all city level awards.--Sodabottle (talk) 04:31, 16 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • As far as I can tell, it's the television station Zee Marathi that has the contract with Universal, not this lady. (See here). The station's put together a number of compilation albums using content from its television shows, and Ms Vaishampayan has appeared on the compilations in this capacity. But Vaishampayan herself doesn't appear to have any particular recording contract. - DustFormsWords (talk) 06:46, 17 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Even if this is true for the "Pancharatna" Album, Aathawa Swar is a completely new album, Zee Marathi has nothing to do with it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Prabodh1987 (talk • contribs) 12:02, 17 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
see WP:GOOGLEHITS regarding use of google to show notability.LibStar (talk) 12:53, 16 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep WP:Music guidelines - Criteria for musicians and ensembles

"9. Has won or placed in a major music competition. 10. Has performed music for a work of media that is notable, e.g. a theme for a network television show, performance in a television show or notable film, inclusion on a notable compilation album, etc. (But if this is the only claim, it is probably more appropriate to have a mention in the main article and redirect to that article.) 11. Has been placed in rotation nationally by any major radio network. 12. Has been the subject of a half-hour or longer broadcast across a national radio or TV network."

Mugdha had participated and broke into top 5 finalists in TV show Idea SARGEMA on Zee Marathi which had highest TRP rating in music reality shows so far. (9,12) She was aired on television from July'08 t0 Feb'09.(9,12)

Even today, 3-4 hour programmes of their concert tours are shown on Marathi channels like Zee Marathi, SAAM, Star Maza and Mi Marathi.(9,12)

Till date, Mugdha was interviewed and appeared on Radio Channels like Radio Surabhi Satelite, 98.3 FM radio Mirchi, 91.1 FM Radio One, All India Radio, Mumbai.(11)

She has sung for NDTV Daily soap. She was part of seven albums. पंचरत्न भाग १,२,३. गर्जती सह्याद्रीचे कडे, जय हरी विठ्ठल, आठवा स्वर, डार्लिंग डार्लिंग (Exclusive her songs). All launched by Universal Music, India.(10)

She has rendered voice for two Marathi movies so far. Name of one movie is 'Let'z Go' and second is un-named. Both will go to floor soon. I will provide links for the same as reference.(10)

Please see its complying with criteria 9,10,11 and 12 of WP:Music.

Why it is then marked for deletion? Plz revoke the action. Vickstp (talk) 07:33, 17 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]


  • Keep Nothing need to be said and done after the arguments put down here by Vickstp. Mugdha is enormously popular in Maharashtra. Even today, after 2 years she participated in the reality show, Mugdha performs in live shows all over Maharashtra. Mugdha was a part of the Celebrity Tour to Europe by Kesari Tours. Mugdha has performed in numerous shows. You will find the details of some of them in the article itself. She was invited to Dubai for a live show. Prabodh 11:48, 17 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep What Vickstp said is quite convincing. If we could have a Google news archive search done in the native language, perhaps we'd find more results. Has anyone who speaks this language looked through her official site, or searched the Wikipedia for that language for leads on more information? Dream Focus 23:23, 17 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • We've generally held non-winning American Idol / So You Think You Can Dance etc contestants to be non-notable in the absence of them having done anything else of particular note; there's nothing in the material identified so far that suggests this lady is any different. - DustFormsWords (talk) 23:44, 17 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
The article says, as does Vickstp statement above, that she has done a theme song that is shown before notable shows [46]. I don't know what American Idol contestants you are referring to, but were these people that bombed and didn't get a record deal, or those that went on to do something that got noticed? Does that show get some people who can't sing just to humiliate them? Those people aren't notable, but some of the losers go on to make notable albums and get plenty of reviews for their work. Dream Focus 00:28, 18 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]


  • Keep Here are the links from CD Publisher's catalog for Mugdha's maiden Album 'Panchratna' which saw a record sell in Maharashtra, India.

First CD - http://www.umusicindia.com/album.php?albumid=566&hotcom=2&category=1 Second CD - http://www.umusicindia.com/album.php?albumid=567&hotcom=2&category=1 Third CD - http://www.umusicindia.com/album.php?albumid=568&hotcom=2&category=1

Link for Mugdha's show in Dubai. Coverage from Dubai's leading daily Khaleej Times. http://www.khaleejtimes.com/citytimes/inside.asp?xfile=/data/citytimes/2009/May/citytimes_May119.xml&section=citytimes One sample advertisement of Mugdha's recent stage show in May 2010. http://marathiactors.com/2010/05/ranga-swaraanche-ek-rana-sangram-program/ Vickstp (talk) 06:11, 18 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

you have now voted 3 times, please add additional notes as Comment. LibStar (talk) 06:35, 18 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

This official website link mentioned above says " These L’ll Champs are no ordinary folk. They were in Prasanthi Nilayam on a personal invitation from Bhagawan Himself. Impressed by their natural talent show at Hadshi, Bhagawan had asked them to come to Puttparthi to perform in Prasanthi Nilayam. …And one could not wait for a better opportunity than the auspicious occasion of celebrating His Divine Advent. A tiny tot in the group, cute champ Mugdha Vaishampayam was at her best singing melodiously, enacting to her best. Singing the famous number “Sai Tero Naam Easwar Tero Naam…” in His presence, with a pointer at Him as Allah, was a feast to the eyes and ears and the crowd went ecstatic, swaying to the tunes in merriment. Every song was received with thunderous relentless applause." Vickstp (talk) 10:23, 18 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep - Hi, We have produced good number of evidences to rovoke the deletion. If we look at in an inspirational perspective, this article will help the youth as well as the guardians to mentor their childrens to set examples and will play a significant role in each ones life.

These are few more references you can refer to ..

http://punekar.in/site/2008/12/11/a-film-academy-for-upcoming-artistes/ (Times of India)

Also, news of Mugdha's scheduled grand performance in Goa published in leadind English daily Herald. Refer page 5. http://issuu.com/herald-goa/docs/may17 Campravin (talk) 12:45, 18 June 2010 (UTC) — Campravi (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]

  • Keep - jai, jai maharashtra maaja, Total 112 established singers and 356 chorus singers lent their voice to the song - Mugdha was the part of the team, was published in TImes of india

http://www.mumbaipluses.com/thaneplus/index.aspx?page=article&sectid=10&contentid=2010030620100309130656319ede364b3&sectxslt=&comments=true —Preceding unsigned comment added by Campravin (talk • contribs) 07:10, 19 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Vickstp (talk) 05:06, 20 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep. The information on the page is true.

--Mandarrp (talk) 05:44, 23 June 2010 (UTC) — Mandarrp (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]

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The result was redirect to Legend of the Black Shawarma. T. Canens (talk) 01:16, 29 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Smashing the Opponent

Smashing the Opponent (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • AfD statistics)
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Fails Wikipedia's notability guidelines for singles. Neelix (talk) 15:55, 15 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus. I'm closing this as no consensus because while there were two !votes to delete, they both came before the author added references. No one has opined since the article was relisted to evaluate the sources, and I don't think its so obvious that I should do it as part of closing the article. If any editor wishes to renominate, they may do so immediately, but please comment on the references added. Xymmax So let it be written So let it be done 12:30, 27 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Alverez

Alverez (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • AfD statistics)
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No assertion of notability. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 20:52, 13 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

(talk) 03:02, 14 June 2010 (UTC) The remainder of the article will be updated today with notable, credible citations, links and works. I apologize for moving this page from my personal pages too early. thank you for your understanding. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Thephmp (talk • contribs) 08:03, 14 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. No true arguments for retention surfaced. –MuZemike 00:55, 27 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

You (musician)

You (musician) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • AfD statistics)
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I declined BLPprod because I'm finding some possible evidence of this person in Japanese: Google News Archive. I'm sending this to AfD in hopes someone who can read Japanese can evaluate this. If no such help is forthcoming and if no other reliable sources can be found, this should be deleted. Jclemens (talk) 03:55, 13 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

This editor has been blocked for disruptive editing at several AFD's. Excirial (Contact me,Contribs) 12:29, 13 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
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What? That's not how it works.Minnowtaur (talk) 21:45, 20 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with Minnowtaur. The fact that a source is in a foreign language may make it difficult, perhaps even impractical, to establish the verifiability of the subject, but such a source should not automatically be assumed to be unreliable, nor the coverage automatically assumed to be insignificant. That said, the article may still qualify for deletion if no one is willing and able to review the Japanese source (or find other sources), as noted by the nominator. Davnor (talk) 14:02, 23 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. Brandon (talk) 02:03, 26 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

So Klassik

So Klassik (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • AfD statistics)
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I can't tell whether this is an article about a person or a group as it keeps changing from singular to plural, but either way there seems to be no real notability. Mixtapes are not generally notable, and the discography is only one mixtape - with executive producer credits - and the rest looks like incidental music. The references don't seem to mention the artist/group, and are mostly blogs. I42 (talk) 06:30, 11 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It appears this article exists multiple times, so I am adding these dups to the nomination:

Bobby G. (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
The Klassikz (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

I42 (talk) 06:40, 11 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

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  • DON'T Delete I've definitely heard of these guys for a couple of years now. I believe they produced Joe Budden's album, a bunch of Heavy Hitter's Mixtapes and done a whole bunch of stuff for BET and MTV. I know for certain that Bobby is the song of Robert_L._Gordon_III...don't know about the other cat in the crew.... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.242.255.56 (talk) 19:00, 18 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was no consensus. –MuZemike 23:29, 25 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Terry Silverlight

Terry Silverlight (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • AfD statistics)
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The result was no consensus with leave to speedy renominate. (non-admin closure) Ron Ritzman (talk) 23:53, 24 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

DEDE (American Band)

DEDE (American Band) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • AfD statistics)
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Contested speedy. Looks pretty clearly non-notable to me, per WP:MUSIC. No albums etc, just a catfood commercial and some pretty marginal stuff. Herostratus (talk) 04:37, 11 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

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  • Weak keep; I'm not sure how notable this is, but it's something (and it is sourced!): Their music was featured in a psychedelic national Friskies commercial the aired initially during the Winter Olympics of 2010. — Timneu22 · talk 13:29, 18 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was no consensus. T. Canens (talk) 01:18, 29 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Invisible system

Invisible system (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • AfD statistics)
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Appears to be a non-notable musician per WP:BAND, WP:GNG and WP:BLP - lacks "significant coverage in reliable sources. BLP-PROD removed with single ref; article previously created by same user back in 2007, it still seems non-notable  Chzz  ►  22:26, 8 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Danieleonharper (talk · contribs) left some further links on my talk page, saying "I can't get my head around how to add links etc properly e.g. to reviews";
 Chzz  ►  22:09, 10 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was keep. (non-admin closure) (non-admin closure) — Parent5446 ☯ (msg email) 02:42, 1 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Abdallah Al Rowaished

Abdallah Al Rowaished (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • AfD statistics)
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Unable to locate any reliable sources independent of the subject. Does not appear to meet WP:GNG or pass WP:MUSICBIO. J04n(talk page) 11:43, 9 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comment If you search Google News under his name written in Arabic [49], you get quite a lot of hits, most of which are to this singer, and in reliable sources. Below are just 3 a few (with dreadful machine tanslations):

Might be worth contacting a WikiProject that covers Arabic subjects. Voceditenore (talk) 12:30, 9 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. NW (Talk) 13:37, 28 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

RTillery

RTillery (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • AfD statistics)
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no real notability shown for this bio. of the coverage provided none of the refs that provide independent coverage of RTillery appear to be reliable sources. nothing satisfying wp:music. duffbeerforme (talk) 10:59, 7 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was merge to Celtae. –MuZemike 01:00, 27 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Nathan MacDonald

AfDs for this article:
Nathan MacDonald (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • AfD statistics)
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Can not find sufficient reliable sources independent of the subject to establish notability. Does not appear to meet WP:GNG or WP:MUSICBIO. At the first AfD for this page the only source offered was his band's site. J04n(talk page) 23:43, 6 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. NW (Talk) 15:56, 26 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Hideshi Takatani

Hideshi Takatani (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • AfD statistics)
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Being on interesting tours does not address the requirements of WP:MUSICBIO. There are no significant results in Google News that would address notability. As the website linked is non-English I am raising for further discussion as notability may be demonstrable in non-English sources not indexed by Google by the English version of "Hideshi Takatani" as per WP:BIAS. Fæ (talk) 14:20, 5 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

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  • Second relist rationale. The article is a BLP. --Ron Ritzman (talk) 00:02, 19 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. Insufficient evidence of notability to pass WP:BIO or WP:MUSIC. The references provided are brief mentions, nothing in terms of specific and detailed coverage. As the nom correctly notes, having performed on some interesting tours or even alongside some famous artists is not, by itself, sufficient to establish notability, in the absence of specific coverage of this musician himself. Nsk92 (talk) 18:01, 19 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. — Scientizzle 19:08, 25 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Robin Foenander

Robin Foenander (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • AfD statistics)
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fails WP:MUSIC and WP:CREATIVE as a broadcaster. nothing in gnews. LibStar (talk) 07:41, 4 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus. All of the independent "keeps" were qualified (weak, for now, etc.) and the article itself is not BLP quality. Renomination is likely if it doesn't improves significantly. Xymmax So let it be written So let it be done 12:41, 27 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Sanka Dineth

AfDs for this article:
Sanka Dineth (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • AfD statistics)
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Prior version was recently deleted at AFD. New version was created, it is essentially a stub on a WP:BLP, and not really sourced that great. Deferring to community consensus, here for a discussion. Cheers. -- Cirt (talk) 14:50, 6 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

hi, I'm still developing this article. Yes, i know the better way to do it is to create article as a "Special My Page" and then move it to public space once it was completed.. But this time i've skipped the "Special my Page" step and it's all my fault.. Anyway, i'll edit the article ASAP to meet necessary criteria.. Help from any Sri Lanka editor gladly welcomed. Nidahasa (talk) 15:11, 6 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Delete No evidence of significant coverage in primary sources. Self promotion --Wipeouting (talk) 09:26, 7 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Ron Ritzman (talk) 00:03, 13 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Very weak keep. Sanka Dineth is covered in reliable sources (The Daily News and The Sunday Times; however, it's not significant coverage: in one case he is mentioned in passing, in the other he gets a three-line short bio and a quote), got an interview on The Nation TV Guide, is claimed to have been selected to promote several prominent brands in Sri Lanka and is credited as the author of the score of a movie (whose notability is disputed). Whilst each of these facts, taken singularly, would not justify an article about him (neither under WP:GNG nor under WP:MUSICBIO, criterion 10), if I look at the big picture I can't help thinking he just might be notable, so I'll !vote (very weak) keep under WP:PAPER. Salvio ( Let's talk 'bout it!) 12:20, 19 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Ron Ritzman (talk) 00:03, 20 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I am not Agree with User talk:Salvio giuliano,User talk:Parent5446Ideas.In Sri Lanka. There are Upcoming musicians more than 100 come-up to the field evry year. because we have lots of reality television programs in Sri Lanka.Those are getting media publicity using news pares, we blogs very easily. as an example this Sanka Dineth was selected Sirasa Superstar2007 for 6th place. There are lots of other musicians out side than him.If Wikipedia is a platform or personal blogs space, we should give opportunity create articles for all this kind of persons who has publicity.--Wipeouting (talk) 18:39, 21 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

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