Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2022 August 11

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. Whether it passes WP:NFILM isn't a sure thing, but after nearly a month of discussion there seems to be a lack of compelling arguments for deletion. DatGuy^Talk_Contribs 07:44, 20 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Agra (2007 film)

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It is not a G4 and the re-creation was allowed per Wikipedia:Deletion_review/Log/2022_March_11 but it's unclear that the sourcing meets significant element of NFILM/GNG. Sify lacks a byline and Chennai Online is not enough on its own. A search does not identify any further coverage that could be added. Star Mississippi 17:22, 22 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Film and India. Star Mississippi 17:22, 22 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Weak Delete not much else besides IMDB, at the same time it is on IMDB. KSAWikipedian (talk) 18:39, 22 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - passes NFILM - sources added and article improved. Three full reviews are there (including the reliable Sify), with extra coverage on its release from other platforms, and on production details. Neutral Fan (talk) 23:21, 24 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Users who spend time and create deleted articles should be encouraged. Chennai Online is reliable because the writer is from The Indian Express. Dinamalar is also a reliable source and the source mentions the film. All in all, beautiful article. DareshMohan (talk) 03:39, 26 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I am currently neutral, but oppose keep right now, as the rationales provided aren't convincing at all. It's very difficult to assert whether this meets GNG, first of all, refs 4 isn't enough. Another reply said that Dinamalar is also a reliable source and the source mentions the film, but "mentions the film" isn't enough, SIGCOV, at least one long paragraph (it isn't official, but in AfC, it says so), this isn't met for this, as ref 4, 5, 6 are non-significant, mentions aren't sufficient. The other refs are unreliable, except for the three full reviews that discussion is needed. Sify is a technology site, I am not sure if it's an RS for films, it also isn't indexed in Rotten Tomatoes, or Metacritic. Chennai Online is perhaps not a clear and cut RS (I'd say it's marginally reliable?), but its reviewer appeared in Indian Express, but the critic isn't an RT approved critic? The other one is a popular website with a very well-known YouTube channel, but has a very questionable, poor about us, with no WP page, checking its articles on COVID-19, it's all right, but very superficial and short. So this is probably marginally reliable, whether it counts towards GNG is uncertain. Ref 10 is an SPS, very poorly written, about has no policies, with grammar errors in its about us, then say it's powered by WordPress (non-reliable), so it's not an RS at all. So, there are only three refs that may count towards GNG, even these are debatable. Further, the keep comment on it passing Wikipedia:NFILM, from my POV, inaccurate. It says [t]he film is widely distributed and has received full-length reviews by two or more nationally known critics as the criteria I am assuming that DareshMohan says it meets. This isn't true, as none of the critics are nationally known, they lack a WP page, Rotten Tomatoes page, or MC page, plus all websites aren't established enough. So I refute this. Though, the guideline states [f]or the majority of topics related to film, the criteria established at the general notability guideline are sufficient to follow. But does this meet GNG? There's lots of sources, but IMO the quality of these are debatable, so I won't give a vote for now. I also strongly disagree with these lines: Dinamalar is also a reliable source and the source mentions the film. All in all, beautiful article. I don't see how this is a beautiful article, this isn't relevant to Notability, and it cites too many poor refs or need expansion/clarification, so I disagree with this (see my previous comment for disagreeing with the Dinamalar ref. Of course, this comment is far too long and not well worded, apologies, and many thanks! VickKiang (talk) 07:42, 27 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. Sify is a reliable source per WP:ICTFSOURCES. Malini Mannath has been writing for The Indian Express for decades and later The New Indian Express. I agree with you that other than the three reviews, the other sources do not give much/are not notable but you must remember that it is hard to search sources and nobody has searched The Hindu archives (the search bar only goes back to 2011). DareshMohan (talk) 07:58, 27 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep It seems to me that the NFILM criteria of reviews by two or more nationally known critics is met here. MrsSnoozyTurtle 03:52, 31 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: Expanded well enough with multiple reviews. Kailash29792 (talk) 04:48, 2 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Do not keep per VickKiang. Does not meet NFILM since we have the name of only one reviewer. However it may be considered if "critic" and "review website" are seen as the same. Does not have significant coverage in sources. I have twice removed content related to production of another movie from the article, and today removed coverage about the producer/director's arrest related to production of another movie. Unlike mentioned above, I could not find mention of the film in Dinamalar. I am fine with moving to draft, if it's going to take time to get sources, such as by going through the archives of The Hindu as DareshMohan mentioned above. Jay 07:23, 2 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: Readded the Dinamalar reference. The reference says ""ஆக்ரா' படம் தயாரிப்பதாக கூறி, 5.30 லட்சம் ரூபாய்" in which "ஆக்ரா" refers to this film "Agra". Jay removed it because Google Translate had faulty translation and did not translate correctly. DareshMohan (talk) 22:13, 2 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for clarifying, and the fix. No change in my vote though. Jay 💬 07:34, 4 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
In terms of WP:NFILM nationally known critic refers to critics writing for a reliable national publication which gives them a national audience. Atlantic306 (talk) 16:36, 4 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 19:43, 4 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Passes WP:NFILM. BBSTOP (talk) 04:57, 8 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Passes WP:NFILM, has reviews in more than one reliable sources.--Dwaipayan (talk) 08:10, 9 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Which is not what WP:NFILM says. I have added to the discussion you started at WT:Notability (films)#"Nationally-known critic" as it relates to films of India. Jay 💬 11:24, 9 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Comr Melody Idoghor (talk) 23:23, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - consensus seems pretty clear. The first 'weak delete' is before sources were added. Neutral Fan (talk) 10:07, 12 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Currently, it seems that there are 6 participants favouring and 4 opposing keep. But I'm still unsure about how WP:NFILM is met, feel free to join the discussion Jay linked. Many thanks! VickKiang (talk) 05:43, 14 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

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The result was keep. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 07:35, 12 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Butler International

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Does not seem to pass WP:NCORP, has no WP:RS in the article currently and a search did not yield significant results except for a sale in 2017 [1]. Cerebral726 (talk) 19:47, 28 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Companies and Connecticut. Shellwood (talk) 21:16, 28 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - Was NYSE listed and was a prominent engineering services firm with thousands of employees. --Jax 0677 (talk) 21:22, 29 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 21:35, 4 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: WP:LISTED suggests, but does not imply, notability in the sense of WP:NCORP. (That being said, I've been skeptical of WP:LISTED as of late.) Having found nothing on Google (besides primary sources) and Google News, I will conduct a search on Newspapers.com once I'm granted access, likely in a few days. Even more perplexingly I can't find any patents for this company, so I'm wondering whether there's an alternate name in use here. Ovinus (talk) 05:55, 5 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Butler International became Butler America Aerospace. However, the company is just a consulting firm who provides engineering work for other companies, so there is no opportunity for them to develop something patentable.--Cerebral726 (talk) 12:41, 5 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Delete not covered in reliable sources. The references are 2 press releases and a self published page. According to WP:LISTED, "Consensus has been that notability is not automatic in this (or any other) case." It goes on to say the company should have independent press coverage and / or independent analyst reports. Hence, there is no inherent notability even if the company was listed on notable stock exchange. This guideline in particular says that about inherent notability WP:ORGSIG. Also, notability is not inherited WP:INHERITORG. And, coverage of this company does not satisfy WP:ORGCRITE or GNG. ---Steve Quinn (talk) 01:09, 8 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Seems to have SIGCOV. Here are some, but there are more, if insufficient independence for WP:ORGIND is believed. Steve Quinn: please check these out. Ovinus (talk) 23:08, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- [2] (discusses acquisition, appears independent)
- [3] (also discusses acquisition, pretty good coverage, independence unclear)
- [4] (deep coverage, a couple quotes from company execs but not enough for me to conclude intellectual non-independence. Also note that Butler Aviation is apparently a subsidiary of Butler International, along with two others, according to the second clipping)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Comr Melody Idoghor (talk) 23:23, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Ovinus I agree these sources sufficiently satisfy SIGCOV and WP:ORGIND. I am striking my "Delete" comment. I am ivoting Keep based on these sources (see below). Also, good job! I'd like to learn how to do deep searches like this. ---Steve Quinn (talk) 23:38, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I'll try to clean up the article using new sources. The history of this company and its parents is a bit mucky, it seems. Butler Aviation was apparently for some time the largest private aviation company in America. [5] Ovinus (talk) 04:47, 12 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Keep based on the sources presented by Ovinus. ---Steve Quinn (talk) 23:38, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - Sources indicate NCORP is met MaxnaCarta (talk) 02:56, 12 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 22:20, 18 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Atziluth

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Redirect: this is an exceptionally minor esoteric religious subject with no real evidence of substantial scholarly coverage as a topic in its own right outside of discussion of the "Four Worlds", where it is already covered and with which it overlaps significantly. Even that article is not in particularly good nick, so anyone interested in producing verifiable, encyclopedic material on the subject would be better off starting there. Iskandar323 (talk) 19:09, 28 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Addendum: The term is part of the Four Worlds thematic framework, and is better positioned to be understood by the reader when placed within that context. Iskandar323 (talk) 05:44, 29 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Religion, Judaism, and Spirituality. Iskandar323 (talk) 19:09, 28 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Plenty of sources from just the first page of a google search. 𝕱𝖎𝖈𝖆𝖎𝖆 (talk) 19:15, 28 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
We don't go by the miscellanea of Google search. We go be reliable, secondary sources. The first page of google results are quite clearly all unreliable. Iskandar323 (talk) 19:25, 28 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Seems like no one is in favor of deleting this article so should it be Kept or Redirected?
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 21:29, 4 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Comr Melody Idoghor (talk) 23:22, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Keep This is absolutely encyclopedic. The text is derived from an entry in The Jewish Encyclopedia. This prima facie meets the GNG. Central and Adams (talk) 02:38, 12 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Ah, great point! The article is also one giant copy vio. Perhaps speedy delete. Iskandar323 (talk) 05:04, 12 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Iskandar323, The Jewish Encyclopedia is in the public domain, so it can't be a copyright violation as you write here and as you erroneously tagged the article. Furthermore, you can't !vote twice.--Jahaza (talk) 05:14, 12 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
That's how copyright works for pictures. For text, just because it is free to access does not mean plagiarism is ok. Iskandar323 (talk) 05:17, 12 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The text is acknowledged, so no, it is not plagiarism. See: WP:FREECOPY and WP:PDCOPY. Frankly, the shifting rationales for deletion with consistent inattention to policy or misunderstanding it on this and related topics are confusing. ~~approaching WP:CIR.~~Jahaza (talk) 05:28, 12 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
To be honest, the fact that this material can only be sourced to a single highly specialized encyclopedia is part of the problem - that the material is apparently not paraphrased and just plagiarized verbatim without any quotation or inline citations is an order of magnitude worse. Iskandar323 (talk) 05:34, 12 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
No, it's absolutely fine that it's copied verbatim from a public domain source with attribution. That's why I suggested you refer to WP:FREECOPY and WP:PDCOPY. The Jewish Encyclopedia is a mainstream source that contributes to many Wikipedia articles, not a highly specialized encyclopedia. Jahaza (talk) 06:38, 12 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: per Central and Adams. Public domain sources can be verbatim copied as long as they are attributed. Dr.Pinsky (talk) 06:36, 12 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Maybe my argument wasn't clear. The point is that if a subject has an article in any reliable encyclopedia then it's encyclopedic for our purposes. This is sufficient evidence that it meets the GNG. Furthermore, there are plenty of sources other than the Jewish Encyclopedia. Just click on the JSTOR search link above to see some.Central and Adams (talk) 09:48, 12 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The Jewish Encyclopedia material is broadly Public Domain because it is more than 100 years old, so it is extremely dated scholarship on top of being highly specialist and hardly indicative of broad notability. Multiple reliable, specific, secondary sources are still required to establish WP:NBASIC here. Iskandar323 (talk) 10:05, 12 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Click on your own JSTOR search link. Also you're wrong about GNG. These are misguided nominations and you ought to withdraw them all.Central and Adams (talk) 10:10, 12 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
No, they are extremely unencyclopedic articles with a similarly insubstantial parent article and no active editors. Iskandar323 (talk) 10:16, 12 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
None of which are deletion criteria, so you ought to withdraw your nominations.Central and Adams (talk) 10:28, 12 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The deletion criteria here is no serious references in the past 100 years beyond extremely trivial mentions. Iskandar323 (talk) 10:37, 12 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Keep or redirect the four to English translations (though I forgot what they are, one description I recall, which though wasn't likeley from primary source, might be something like spiritual, mental, astral, material worlds/planes).--dchmelik☀️🕉︎☉🦉🐝🐍☤☆(talk 02:03, 15 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per WP:GNG, particularly the sources discussed by Central and Adams. The nominator's suggestion that old sources don't count is just wrong. All four of these related articles should be kept. Jacona (talk) 14:29, 15 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 22:20, 18 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Beri'ah

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Redirect: this is an exceptionally minor esoteric religious subject with no real evidence of substantial scholarly coverage as a topic in its own right outside of discussion of the "Four Worlds", where it is already covered and with which it overlaps significantly. Even that article is not in particularly good nick, so anyone interested in producing verifiable, encyclopedic material on the subject would be better off starting there. Iskandar323 (talk) 19:08, 28 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Addendum: The term is part of the Four Worlds thematic framework, and is better positioned to be understood by the reader when placed within that context. Iskandar323 (talk) 05:44, 29 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Religion, Judaism, and Spirituality. Iskandar323 (talk) 19:08, 28 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Plenty of sources from just the first page of a google search. 𝕱𝖎𝖈𝖆𝖎𝖆 (talk) 19:17, 28 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
We don't go by the miscellanea of Google search. We go be reliable, secondary sources. The first page of google results are quite clearly all unreliable. Iskandar323 (talk) 19:25, 28 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep or ~~redirect~~. If a topic is already covered and overlaps significantly with another article, then there's generally no reason to delete it, but rather to redirect it to the place where the concept is covered. Jahaza (talk) 20:28, 28 July 2022 (UTC) Striking previous redirect vacillation due to it being pointed out that the subject had an article in the Jewish Encyclopedia on which this article was initially based.--Jahaza (talk) 05:19, 12 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I thought it was somewhat implied, but yes, I believe a redirect would be best - perhaps could have made that clearer. Have hopefully done so now. Iskandar323 (talk) 05:32, 29 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure why it would be obvious that you think a redirect would be best when you WP:PRODed the article and then when the proposed deletion was declined immediately nominated it for deletion? Next time just propose a merge or boldly redirect it yourself.--Jahaza (talk) 08:07, 29 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

PRODs can also be redirected by the closer if the object of the redirect is clear - I have always stated that the material overlaps with Four Worlds. Iskandar323 (talk) 08:35, 29 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I've always thought of it as somewhat poor form to boldly redirect, since that seems to bypass all forms of deletion-based process and discussion. Iskandar323 (talk) 08:36, 29 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: It seems like no one is favor of deleting this article so should it be Kept or Redirected?
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 21:28, 4 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Comr Melody Idoghor (talk) 23:22, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Keep This is absolutely encyclopedic. The text is derived from an entry in The Jewish Encyclopedia. This prima facie meets the GNG. Central and Adams (talk) 02:39, 12 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Maybe my argument wasn't clear. The point is that if a subject has an article in any reliable encyclopedia then it's encyclopedic for our purposes. This is sufficient evidence that it meets the GNG. Furthermore, there are plenty of sources other than the Jewish Encyclopedia. Just click on the JSTOR search link above to see some.Central and Adams (talk) 09:49, 12 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The Jewish Encyclopedia material is broadly Public Domain because it is more than 100 years old, so it is extremely dated scholarship on top of being highly specialist and hardly indicative of broad notability. Multiple reliable, specific, secondary sources are still required to establish WP:NBASIC here. Iskandar323 (talk) 10:05, 12 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Click on your own JSTOR search link. Also you're wrong about GNG. These are misguided nominations and you ought to withdraw them all.Central and Adams (talk) 10:10, 12 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
No, they are extremely unencyclopedic articles with a similarly insubstantial parent article and no active editors. Iskandar323 (talk) 10:17, 12 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
None of which are deletion criteria, so you ought to withdraw your nominations.Central and Adams (talk) 10:28, 12 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The deletion criteria here is no serious references in the past 100 years beyond extremely trivial mentions. Iskandar323 (talk) 10:38, 12 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Keep or redirect the four to English translations (though I forgot what they are, one description I recall, which though wasn't likeley from primary source, might be something like spiritual, mental, astral, material worlds/planes)--dchmelik☀️🕉︎☉🦉🐝🐍☤☆(talk 02:12, 15 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per WP:GNG, particularly the sources discussed by Central and Adams. The nominator's suggestion that old sources don't count is just wrong. All four of these related articles should be kept. Jacona (talk) 14:29, 15 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 22:19, 18 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Yetzirah

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Redirect: this is an exceptionally minor esoteric religious subject with no real evidence of substantial scholarly coverage as a topic in its own right outside of discussion of the "Four Worlds", where it is already covered and with which it overlaps significantly. Even that article is not in particularly good nick, so anyone interested in producing verifiable, encyclopedic material on the subject would be better off starting there. Iskandar323 (talk) 19:08, 28 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Addendum: The term is part of the Four Worlds thematic framework, and is better positioned to be understood by the reader when placed within that context. Iskandar323 (talk) 05:44, 29 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Religion, Judaism, and Spirituality. Iskandar323 (talk) 19:08, 28 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 21:27, 4 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Plenty of sources in the article, and there appear to be more from a quick google search. 𝕱𝖎𝖈𝖆𝖎𝖆 (talk) 22:56, 4 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Ficaia: Perhaps you could provide an example, because I just see lots of books about "Sefer/Sepher Yetzirah", which is a completely different subject. Iskandar323 (talk) 05:32, 5 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Comr Melody Idoghor (talk) 23:21, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Keep This is absolutely encyclopedic. The text is derived from an entry in The Jewish Encyclopedia. This prima facie meets the GNG. Central and Adams (talk) 02:39, 12 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Maybe my argument wasn't clear. The point is that if a subject has an article in any reliable encyclopedia then it's encyclopedic for our purposes. This is sufficient evidence that it meets the GNG. Furthermore, there are plenty of sources other than the Jewish Encyclopedia. Just click on the JSTOR search link above to see some.Central and Adams (talk) 09:50, 12 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The Jewish Encyclopedia material is broadly Public Domain because it is more than 100 years old, so it is extremely dated scholarship on top of being highly specialist and hardly indicative of broad notability. Multiple reliable, specific, secondary sources are still required to establish WP:NBASIC here. Iskandar323 (talk) 10:05, 12 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Click on your own JSTOR search link. Also you're wrong about GNG. These are misguided nominations and you ought to withdraw them all.Central and Adams (talk) 10:11, 12 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
No, they are extremely unencyclopedic articles with a similarly insubstantial parent article and no active editors. Iskandar323 (talk) 10:17, 12 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
None of which are deletion criteria, so you ought to withdraw your nominations.Central and Adams (talk) 10:29, 12 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The deletion criteria here is no serious references in the past 100 years beyond extremely trivial mentions. Iskandar323 (talk) 10:38, 12 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Keep or redirect the four to English translations (though I forgot what they are, one description I recall, which though wasn't likeley from primary source, might be something like spiritual, mental, astral, material worlds/planes)--dchmelik☀️🕉︎☉🦉🐝🐍☤☆(talk 02:12, 15 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per WP:GNG, particularly the sources discussed by Central and Adams. The nominator's suggestion that old sources don't count is just wrong. All four of these related articles should be kept. Jacona (talk) 14:28, 15 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 22:19, 18 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Assiah

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Redirect: this is an exceptionally minor esoteric religious subject with no real evidence of substantial scholarly coverage as a topic in its own right outside of discussion of the "Four Worlds", where it is already covered and with which it overlaps significantly. Even that article is not in particularly good nick, so anyone interested in producing verifiable, encyclopedic material on the subject would be better off starting there. Iskandar323 (talk) 19:06, 28 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Addendum: The term is part of the Four Worlds thematic framework, and is better positioned to be understood by the reader when placed within that context. Iskandar323 (talk) 05:44, 29 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Religion, Judaism, and Spirituality. Iskandar323 (talk) 19:06, 28 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Plenty of sources on the first page of a google search: e.g. 1, 2, just for a start. 𝕱𝖎𝖈𝖆𝖎𝖆 (talk) 19:13, 28 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
We don't go by the miscellanea of Google search. We go be reliable, secondary sources. The first page of google results are quite clearly all unreliable. Iskandar323 (talk) 19:26, 28 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 21:27, 4 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Comr Melody Idoghor (talk) 23:20, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Keep This is absolutely encyclopedic. The text is derived from an entry in The Jewish Encyclopedia. This prima facie meets the GNG. Central and Adams (talk) 02:40, 12 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Without advancing an opinion, I'm unsure how this is exceptionally minor. It's one of four spiritual worlds featured in a fairly well-known religious text. See also AfDs on the other four worlds – Yetzirah, Atziluth, Beri'ah. J947 † ^edits 06:05, 12 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
There are several layers of problem here - at least one of which is that even the parent article Four Worlds is not even properly cited with inline footnotes, so the encyclopedia currently has four poorly sourced and cited child articles branching out from an equally poorly sourced and uncited parent. Iskandar323 (talk) 06:11, 12 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Maybe my argument wasn't clear. The point is that if a subject has an article in any reliable encyclopedia then it's encyclopedic for our purposes. This is sufficient evidence that it meets the GNG. Furthermore, there are plenty of sources other than the Jewish Encyclopedia. Just click on the JSTOR search link above to see some.Central and Adams (talk) 09:50, 12 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The Jewish Encyclopedia material is broadly Public Domain because it is more than 100 years old, so it is extremely dated scholarship on top of being highly specialist and hardly indicative of broad notability. Multiple reliable, specific, secondary sources are still required to establish WP:NBASIC here. Iskandar323 (talk) 10:05, 12 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Click on your own JSTOR search link. Also you're wrong about GNG. These are misguided nominations and you ought to withdraw them all.Central and Adams (talk) 10:11, 12 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
No, they are extremely unencyclopedic articles with a similarly insubstantial parent article and no active editors. Iskandar323 (talk) 10:17, 12 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
None of which are deletion criteria, so you ought to withdraw your nominations.Central and Adams (talk) 10:29, 12 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The deletion criteria here is no serious references in the past 100 years beyond extremely trivial mentions. Iskandar323 (talk) 10:38, 12 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Note to anyone who's interested in evaluating sources for this article it may be useful to know that it's also transliterated as "Asiyah," This yields a lot of GScholar results [6] where I had to add "hasidic" as a search term to eliminate false positives. The claim that there aren't multiple reliable sources for this subject is a failure of BEFORE. Please withdraw this and the other three noms.Central and Adams (talk) 10:32, 12 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

It's also spelled Asiya without the terminal "h."Central and Adams (talk) 10:56, 12 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Keep or redirect the four to English translations (though I forgot what they are, one description I recall, which though wasn't likeley from primary source, might be something like spiritual, mental, astral, material worlds/planes)--dchmelik☀️🕉︎☉🦉🐝🐍☤☆(talk 02:12, 15 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per WP:GNG, particularly the sources discussed above by Central and Adams. The nominators suggestion that old sources don't count is just wrong. Jacona (talk) 14:27, 15 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I'm fine with either keep or redirect but I slightly favor the latter because this article would be more informative in the full context of the parent article. Spudlace (talk) 19:21, 15 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus. Unfortunately, the sources found by Goldsztajn, which appear pertinent, have not been discussed. The rest of the discussion ist mostly guesswork. Sandstein 18:51, 19 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Ryszard Frąckiewicz

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Contested PROD; appears to be a non-notable diplomat. A WP:BEFORE search provided little, and while there are a lot of references in the Polish Wikipedia article, these are primarily just list of who was an ambassador to what, with nothing seeming to provide WP:SIGCOV. Curbon7 (talk) 14:12, 28 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete ambassadors are not inherently notable. Google newspapers just shows routine coverage and nothing in depth. LibStar (talk) 10:59, 29 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Keep I'd disagree that ambassadors of sovereign nations are not inherently notable. Added some references from the Polish Wikipedia. There are likely more references out there in Polish sources, so it's worth keeping this article until it can be proven those sources aren't obtainable. Royal Autumn Crest (talk) 18:05, 29 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Regarding your first sentence, per WP:POLOUTCOMES, the general consensus that has been reached is that ambassadors are not granted the inherent notability that WP:NPOL confers to, say, a legislator or a cabinet minister. Additionally, the onus is to prove that sources exist; I could not find any providing WP:SIGCOV with a thorough search. Regardless, thanks for transferring the sources from pl.wikipedia. Curbon7 (talk) 18:19, 29 July 2022 (UTC)**[reply]
- Consensus can change over time and I would also disagree with the premise of the essay you referenced in that an article should not be deleted if it can be cleaned up or expanded. Otherwise, it will just be recreated later from scratch when it could be brought up to the encyclopedia's standards without having to be recreated. I also appreciate your efforts as well and I am not saying this article should be indefinitely kept, only that it be given some time for people who know more about this subject than you or I to exhaust all possibilities of making this subject into something worthy of keeping. If that opportunity occurs and improvement still cannot happen, I would join your opinion here. Royal Autumn Crest (talk) 18:36, 29 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  "I'd disagree that ambassadors of sovereign nations are not inherently notable. " At least 70 ambassador articles have been deleted, the community consensus is clear on their inherent notability. LibStar (talk) 23:52, 31 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, unless the article sees more significant improvement than I'm equipped to give it. Indeed Wikipedia does have a consensus that diplomats are not "inherently" notable just because they exist, and instead must be shown to pass WP:GNG on their sourcing to be considered notable enough for an article — but the references here aren't really notability-supporting or GNG-worthy sources, but comprise mainly directory listings and primary sources, and even the one that seems more substantial on the surface, because it links to the first page of a 50-page book chapter, still actually just entails a glancing namecheck of Ryszard Frąckiewicz in a directory listing rather than substantive analytical coverage. The key to making a diplomat notable enough for a Wikipedia article is not to offer simple verification that he existed, it's to offer substantive and well-sourced content about the real world impact of his work — specific accomplishments he attained in the job, specific effects he had on the diplomatic relationships between Poland and the countries he was ambassador to, etc. — but that's not at all evident from this article or its sourcing. As I can't read Polish, I'm willing to withdraw this if somebody who does have the ability to read Polish can extract considerably more substance from Polish language sources — but nothing here is notable enough as it stands right now. And we also don't keep articles just because it's possible that better sourcing might exist than anybody has actually found — once notability has been challenged, you have to show definitive proof that the sourcing needed to salvage the article definitely exists rather than just maybe. Bearcat (talk) 20:57, 30 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 21:19, 4 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Weak delete. I thought that ambassadors were inherently notable by the virtue of their possitions. WP:OUTCOMES does say otherwise, however (although that's a page with a format that needs updating - who added that conclusion there?). Sourcing is weak, there are passing mentions but little SIGCOV. Here is a one-sentence incomplete biography footnote. Something more substantial and in English appears here, bu it could be self-written author's biography blurb, hard to tell from the snippet. Weak delete since I find User:Bearcat's argument convincing and no sources to challenge him. PS. I'll ping User:Niegodzisie, an editor whom I consider an expert in the area of Polish officials, for his opinion. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 11:13, 7 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Frąckiewicz served twice as an ambassador: to Australia and Japan. Apart from that, he was charge d'affaires to the United States. Heading embassies in three important (including the most one) capitalist countries during the time of communist Poland, he should be considered among top Polish diplomats of 1970s and 1980s. Unfortunately, we can only assume about media coverage (which should have been sufficient) because he ended his career ca 30 years ago and Polish newspapers of that period are not digitized. He is mentioned among 4 most notable persons on the cemetery he rests on. Btw, I have improved the article. Niegodzisie (talk) 14:30, 7 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Weak keep - But Piotrus, what about that snippet of English biography you found? Maybe it's not self-written? Should we just ignore it? - GizzyCatBella🍁 14:57, 7 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, I admit without checking the book in question in a library, it's a tough call. It's from 1978, he would be what, 47 then? Yeah, it could be by him, or not, double sigh. Hence my "weak" qualifier. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 09:08, 14 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Looking at the sourcing, it does not appear to be significant to pass WP:GNG. As Bearcat mentions, an expectation is that the article consists more of "they exist" by describing some of their specific accomplishments or impact on policy. --Enos733 (talk) 15:59, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep His posting in Australia was contemporaneous with the emergence of Solidarity and the marshal law period. He appeared not infrequently in the Australian media of the period; extensive, in-depth, background piece from Canberra Times 1979, Refusal to answer questions on possible defection, Canberra Times, 1981, Refusal to accept petition in support of imprisoned Solidarity leaders, Australian Jewish News 1982. Somewhat interesting factoid, the announcement of the 1983 Australian federal election was delayed because the country's governor-general was lunching with Frąckiewicz and the Prime Minister had to wait before he could advise the GG to dissolve parliament. Passes the GNG. Regards, --Goldsztajn (talk) 08:51, 19 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was merge to Alcoa Care-free Homes. Guerillero ^{Parlez Moi} 12:08, 19 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Alcoa House (Portland, Oregon)

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This house was not on any historical register, was not a place of any historical events, and has (and will likely only ever have) a single article by an independent secondary source. The Alcoa house was one of 24 similar houses and its only arguable notability was that this was the only one in Oregon. I can see an argument for notability for an article about Alcoa houses in general, but not one specific example out of 24. A search online shows no other coverage of this home than the Oregonian article. WP:NBUILD states buildings "require significant in-depth coverage by reliable, third-party sources to establish notability" with an emphasis on plural "sources" as explicitly stated in WP:ONESOURCE: "a subject for which only one source can be cited is unlikely to merit a standalone article" PDXBart (talk) 21:43, 4 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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NOTICE It appears the creator of the article has not been informed of this AfD as required.Djflem (talk) 10:51, 5 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. In addition to the two sources from The Oregonian currently used in the article, there's an article from Realtor here. The Realtor source is not a listing; it is an article with a byline that is solely about the subject. The Oregonian did another piece on the house here, asking if it could have been saved from demolition. It was named by Pamplin Media Group as one of Portland's "Magnificent Modern Seven" here. Given that coverage, and the fact it was Portland's only Alcoa home, I believe this meets GNG. --Kbabej (talk) 22:38, 4 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
An article written by a realtor as a companion to its listing is not a reliable or independent source per WP:RS.

The Pamplin article is pretty clearly WP:TRIVIALMENTION

"Portland's only Alcoa home" - again, I don't think being unique to the state adds notability. There are hundreds or thousands of unique houses to the state and not every one needs a Wikipedia article.

I think it's debatable whether the extra Oregonian article written one week after the original and provides no additional information counts as evidence for notability.
The essential argument for me was that this house had absolutely no notability or coverage prior to being demolished. The event of the house being demolished is more notable than the house itself, and the Wikipedia article isn't about the demolition. PDXBart (talk) 23:27, 4 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Hi @PDXBart. To address your points:
Claudine Zap, the author of the Realtor article is a freelance writer and editor, not a realtor. That's why I pointed out the byline and stated it was an article, not in any way a listing. She's written for Realtor, Yahoo, New York Post, and SFGATE.

The Pamplin article is about the "Magnificent Modern Seven", during which the subject is discussed. I do not agree that it's trivial, given the article is dedicated to these seven homes. It's not a passing mention.

There is no guideline on time spacing of articles when looking at RS requirements. It's a separate article, and therefore counts toward notability.

The house existed as the sole Alcoa house in PDX (Oregon?) when it was built. That is the notability, and the demolition discussion only adds to it, IMO.
Happy to discuss further. Cheers! --Kbabej (talk) 23:35, 4 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the thoughtful feedback Kbabej. PDXBart (talk) 23:40, 4 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Comment for what it is (less than 10 lines of text), we can copy it to the Alcoa article. There likely won't be much more published about it and it's been demolished. Oaktree b (talk) 23:34, 4 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Hi @Oaktree b. The sourcing I've identified above can definitely flesh out the article. Stubs are incredibly common across WP, and this just needs expanded. The Realtor article is helpful, as is the third Oregonian piece. --Kbabej (talk) 23:37, 4 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for mentioning the Alcoa article - I had searched and failed to find that. I think a merger is more appropriate than deletion PDXBart (talk) 23:40, 4 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Merge >>>Alcoa Care-free Homes Djflem (talk) 22:26, 5 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep (disclaimer: stub creator) per Kbabej and nominator's own comment "I think a merger is more appropriate than deletion". I'd rather see this content fleshed out and/or possibly merged than deleted altogether. This could have been discussed on the talk page. Again, I'd encourage the nominator to stop jumping to AfD so quickly. ---Another Believer _(Talk) 14:38, 6 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Merge: to Alcoa Care-free Homes per Nom and Another Believer as ATD. -- Otr500 (talk) 01:54, 8 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: I see split consensus between Keeping the article and Merging it with Alcoa Care-free Homes. Let's give it another week to solidify.
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Merge to Alcoa Care-free Homes per above discussion. Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 23:47, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Merge The topic would benefit from the context provided about the homes in general. MrsSnoozyTurtle 08:47, 19 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was merge to Cole Hamels. Sandstein 18:52, 19 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Heidi Strobel

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Non-notable reality television contestant; competed on, but did not win, Survivor. Bgsu98 (talk) 19:29, 28 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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I have added more information to the article as well as a category, so I don't think it should be deleted. And1987 (talk) 19:34, 28 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Comment for all of what it is, could be a subsection in the Cole Hammels article. Oaktree b (talk) 13:57, 29 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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Weak merge to Cole Hamels. Another quality reference could convince me otherwise, but currently I think notability is too reliant on WP:BIO1E. MrsSnoozyTurtle 08:39, 19 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was soft delete. Based on minimal participation, this uncontroversial nomination is treated as an expired PROD (a.k.a. "soft deletion"). Editors can request the article's undeletion. ✗plicit 23:56, 13 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Oak Knoll Winery

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This winery does not appear to have any significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject. There are several WP:TRIVIALMENTION from sources that are in some instances more than 30 years old. A search online does not reveal any meaningful secondary source coverage. Appears to be pretty WP:MILL to me and according to some sources online, has not been the largest wine producer in Washington County as the article states for at least a decade, and likely much longer. PDXBart (talk) 20:59, 4 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete I see mentions but nothing substantial. However, I'm not able to review the many local papers, so if someone has access to those it would be good to check them out. The one "award" I was able to view was a 26-page single-spaced list of wines and wineries in which this winery appeared twice. Lamona (talk) 20:22, 13 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Doczilla _{@SUPERHEROLOGIST} 20:38, 18 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Aranos mine

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I can find no evidence that such a mine exists. There seems to have been some interest in prospecting for and developing coal resources in the area in the 2006–2011 period, but no actual mine seems to have been excavated. The article's statement, "The mine produces around 8 million tonnes of coal per year," is certainly not supported by the reference cited for it. Deor (talk) 22:32, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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delete This report from 2021 says, "Coal: some deposits exist, e.g. near Aranos, but these are unsuitable for commercial exploitation." There's no sign on GMaps pf any mine in the area. Mangoe (talk) 21:48, 12 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - Fails verification. The article was created with only one source which discusses coal reserves in the general area, not a specific mine. The coords were added much later and point to the village of Aranos. –dlthewave ☎ 15:20, 13 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nom. Suonii180 (talk) 15:10, 17 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. New sources added, social media accounts removed and article has been rewritten since nomination. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 22:12, 18 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Muhammad Khan Bhatti

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BLP of a non notable career civil servant. Mccapra (talk) 19:51, 4 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete No trace of notability under any category. LizardJr8 (talk) 02:43, 5 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Fails WP:GNG. Zakaria ښه راغلاست (talk) 20:16, 8 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep – passes WP:NBASIC. Quite controversial and well known name in Punjab's politics. Many IND, RS sources available online... [7], [8], [9], [10] [11] and [12]. Thanks. Ahated (talk!) 18:49, 10 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep – a notable career civil servant that meets WP:BASIC: [13], [14], [15], [16], [17], [18]. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 14:15, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. ✗plicit 00:50, 18 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Gerardus Wesling

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Fails WP:GNG and WP:SPORTCRIT. Avilich (talk) 18:46, 4 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete Fails GNG Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 19:14, 13 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, doesn't pass WP:GNG. Suonii180 (talk) 00:33, 18 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was redirect to Netherlands at the 1908 Summer Olympics#Gymnastics. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 03:46, 18 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Johannes Stikkelman

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Fails WP:GNG and WP:SPORTCRIT. Avilich (talk) 18:41, 4 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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Redirect, to Netherlands_at_the_1908_Summer_Olympics#Gymnastics. SailingInABathTub ~~🛁~~ 14:18, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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Redirect or delete. Not seeing sufficient coverage, and it certainly can't be presumed in this case. JoelleJay (talk) 02:59, 17 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. No prejudice against redirect. Arbitrarily0 ^(talk) 02:48, 19 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Vijay Nayudu

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Fails NSPORTS and GNG due to lack of significant coverage. No SIGCOV sources were found during or after the previous AfD over a year ago, and NSPORTS now requires that such sources be present in the article. –dlthewave ☎ 13:03, 4 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete. Fails WP:GNG. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 15:44, 4 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. The previous AfD actually mentioned a reliable source with significant coverage, which has now been added to the article. St Anselm (talk) 15:49, 4 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
One source does not equal WP:SIGCOV Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 18:04, 4 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, it does - all those GNG criteria apply on an individual basis. That is, we talk about the reliability, etc. of individual sources. Now, it sounds like you're saying that it needs multiple sources to pass GNG, but I was actually referring to WP:NSPORT, where for certain sportspeople one reliable source with significant coverage added to the article indicates that other reliable sources may exist. St Anselm (talk) 18:19, 4 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

You know very well that NSPORT is subordinate to GNG and thus requires multiple sources. Meeting SPORTCRIT #5 is a rebuttable indication that further sources exist. JoelleJay (talk) 23:00, 4 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - "multiple sources are generally expected" in WP:GNG, and I failed to find a suitable second piece of coverage that could be cited alongside the 2013 article. I'm watchlisting this in case a further good source is identified, or if someone makes a compelling argument that the Bhushan book is a reliable source. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 21:58, 4 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Weak keep I think with the sourcing that we've found, the player's career and the time of his career, there's enough for a weak keep here. I imagine given the time of his career and the number of games played would lead to offline or non-English language GNG passing sourcing, although it would be nice if we had found some more by now. Can't see a suitable redirect here though if one is required. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 17:52, 5 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, no indication has been given, in this discussion or from a search, that the subject passes WP:GNG. Devonian Wombat (talk) 09:28, 6 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
This is either a weak keep, with the sort of rationale that RF22 provides above, or a redirect to List of Madhya Pradesh cricketers where a note can be added to summarise his career or someone can turn the thing into a table as it looks like there are going to be a lot of non-English speaking redirects coming up. I'd be happy with a redirect to this article as it was his state team and CA identifies it as the only "main" FC team he played for and the majority of his appearances were for the side. Blue Square Thing (talk) 09:18, 10 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Strong keep extended career at top-flight domestic level Bumbubookworm (talk) 13:57, 10 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
That doesn't mean anything...participation at the domestic level does not presume existence of SIGCOV. JoelleJay (talk) 20:19, 10 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting this discussion. The previous AFD closed saying that the subject likely passes GNG, was a unanimous Keep and that was in 2021.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 22:22, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Delete, Article fails notability. Alex-h (talk) 12:19, 13 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect or delete. A single source isn't sufficient for GNG, but redirecting might permit discovery of further sources. JoelleJay (talk) 02:58, 17 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 22:07, 18 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Zach Weissmueller

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while being a senior producer/reporter is great for a resume, it doesn't confer notability. There is very little to no coverage of Weissmueller himself, instead all the sources are written by him. PRAXIDICAE🌈 21:47, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Keep, long reviewed article. Not all pages need to be more than a stub, even for a biography of lesser notability, but still notable by the standards set forth for new page review. ♥Th78blue (talk)♥ 02:42, 12 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
It's not about the length, it's about the lack of independent coverage. PRAXIDICAE🌈 02:45, 12 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I am convinced we can delete this one then for now until better or more sources present themselves. I am not expert on the actual deletion of an article. Can someone instruct me on how to do that and I will delete this one if no one else protests? ♥Th78blue (talk)♥ 22:17, 17 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion will close in a day, and it will likely be deleted then. PRAXIDICAE🌈 22:39, 17 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Where do you see when it will close? Just so I become more familiar with that process etc. Thank you. ♥Th78blue (talk)♥ 20:10, 18 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. I agree with Praxidicae that the lack of independent sourcing is the main problem here. Aside from the non-independent sources currently cited in the article, all my search was able to find was a few passing mentions in the press—that falls well short of the in-depth coverage in reliable independent sources that WP:BASIC and the GNG require. Glad to reconsider if there's something I'm missing, but it seems to me that Weissmueller doesn't clear the notability threshold at this time. Extraordinary Writ (talk) 03:19, 12 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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Delete I can find lots of articles, etc., BY him but nothing ABOUT him. Lamona (talk) 20:18, 13 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete This looks to be no more than a stub. I also agree with the points made by @Extraordinary Writ and @Lamona. Pulpfiction621 (talk) 14:42, 17 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was soft delete. Based on minimal participation, this uncontroversial nomination is treated as an expired PROD (a.k.a. "soft deletion"). Editors can request the article's undeletion. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 22:04, 18 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Caroline Moeder

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Fails WP:GNG and lacks WP:SIGCOV. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 21:38, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 16:34, 15 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 22:03, 18 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Andrus Remy

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Fails WP:GNG and lacks WP:SIGCOV. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 21:35, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete – All sources that I've found are trivial. Most just mention a goal he's scored here or there, so no WP:SIGCOV. User:SmackJam (talk) 14:00, 13 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 16:34, 15 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was redirect to Dragon Prince and Dragon Star trilogies#Characters. Two editors favored Deletion while one favored a Redirect and one said they wouldn't object to a redirect so as the closer's decision, I went with the redirect option. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 22:03, 18 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Characters of Dragon Prince

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A totally unrefenced plot summary in the form of a character list. Not much we can do with this piece of WP:FANCRUFT, rescue-wise, I am afraid. Unencyclopedic plot summary, failing WP:NLIST, WP:GNG, etc. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 21:32, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete Violation of WP:NOTPLOT. None of current content is salvageable and is WP:OR, so at the very least WP:TNT applies. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 07:36, 13 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Dragon Prince and Dragon Star trilogies#Characters. Though that article's not exactly in great shape itself, it does have a list of characters that offers about the right level of depth and detail (i.e. not much). If this had been recently created there'd be an argument for deleting before redirecting to forestall any efforts to recreate it, but as it was mostly written by one long-since inactive editor in the mid-aughts there's probably not much risk of that. – Arms & Hearts (talk) 20:50, 13 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - As ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ stated, none of the current contents of this article is appropriate for merging or preserving as it is entirely in-universe plot information that has no sources. I wouldn't be particularly opposed to a Redirect as suggested by Arms & Hearts, I just don't think it is a particularly useful search term. Rorshacma (talk) 16:07, 18 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 21:58, 18 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Decoursey Simon

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Fails WP:GNG and lacks WP:SIGCOV. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 21:31, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete; doesn't seem to satisfy our post-WP:NSPORTS2022 notability standards. My search didn't find any sources beyond the typical database sources and passing mentions, nor do I see any strong evidence of the existence of in-depth sources that I'm unable to access. Simon doesn't meet WP:BASIC/the GNG, as far as I can tell. Extraordinary Writ (talk) 03:31, 12 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 11:01, 13 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 21:58, 18 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Theo Burt

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Other than a few mentions of participating in festivals, I don't see any in depth coverage of Burt or his works, under this name or any pseudonyms. PRAXIDICAE🌈 21:06, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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I've just remade the page for Summer Mix, which I first made before I made the page for Theo Burt. TreeLethargy (talk) 22:21, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
And that also lacks the necessary sources to establish notability. PRAXIDICAE🌈 22:25, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Have just added a critical reception section. TreeLethargy (talk) 22:48, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: I am not persuaded that Burt passes either WP:NMUSICIAN or WP:NARTIST 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 22:45, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - If the musician's article is deleted, the album article at Summer Mix will be orphaned and would have to be speedy deleted in a separate process. ---DOOMSDAYER520 (TALK|CONTRIBS) 17:50, 12 August 2022 (UTC) --- See more recent comment below on the album. ---DOOMSDAYER520 (TALK|CONTRIBS) 01:17, 14 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - The article's creator is working in good faith, but this musician simply hasn't been noticed in any significant and reliable media coverage. The Summer Mix album got a review at Entropy Magazine, but that is a largely user-generated (though literary) site of questionable reliability. That record was released under the name The Automatics Group and that act has no significant coverage either. Sorry, but the musician is simply too underground to qualify for an article here. ---DOOMSDAYER520 (TALK|CONTRIBS) 17:56, 12 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I honestly agree in retrospect. The muddled history of both pages, as their creator, in the first place indicates this. I don't mind their deletion. TreeLethargy (talk) 20:04, 12 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@TreeLethargy:: Thanks again for your spirit of good faith. Just remember that not everything can qualify for Wikipedia due to our notability rules. Per you own assessment of Summer Mix, I will redirect that article to Burt's article, which is the usual procedure for non-notable albums (see the "Albums" sub-section here). Now we only have to worry about whether Burt's article shall survive. By the way, you wrote a lot of very nice prose about Summer Mix (still visible here for the time being), so consider submitting it in other forums that discuss Burt's works. ---DOOMSDAYER520 (TALK|CONTRIBS) 13:52, 13 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was redirect to Mises Caucus. The SPLC source is roughly acceptable and the Reason video is of rather high quality and usefulness, but the rest of the references only mention Michael Heise in passing in reference to the caucus. DatGuy^Talk_Contribs 11:36, 19 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Michael Heise

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non-notable party founder - while there's some minor coverage, there is nothing significant and the party itself is of little notability as it's an off shoot of two major parties. PRAXIDICAE🌈 18:41, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The Libertarian Party (United States) is the third largest party in the United States, and this person is the founder of the caucus that now controls the messaging and party as a whole. A short, or stub article at minimum is both notable and reasonable. The sources provided two are on the RS list as well, Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Perennial sources. ♥Th78blue (talk)♥ 18:46, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

There isn't coverage of him though, it's all about the party. Redirect it to the caucus but he isn't notable on his own. PRAXIDICAE🌈 18:56, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

At least one or more of the RSes cited is entirely devoted to coverage of Michael Heise and the recent LP Mises Caucus majority. This article should be retained. Pulpfiction621 (talk) 20:10, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

which would that be? isn't about him, this is basically an interview with little editorial content, not about him, not about him, probably the most significant information about him but still not in depth coverage. PRAXIDICAE🌈 20:57, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete limited notability, few independent sources. Andre🚐 21:31, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
None of the sources are primary or written by the subject. What do you mean by "independent" sources then? ♥Th78blue (talk)♥ 02:30, 12 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Per Praxidicae, the Reason source is basically an interview with him. Reason also has a close connection to the Libertarian movement. So this is pretty softball coverage of him. There seems to be really only one decent piece of information about him in the list above which is SPLC, which is a counter-party to him, but all in all, still feels like a delete, not very notable. Andre🚐 18:37, 12 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, per questions asked of users above. ♥Th78blue (talk)♥ 02:40, 12 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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Delete per Praxidicae and Andre. There just isn't enough WP:RS-compliant significant coverage here to satisfy WP:GNG. Sal2100 (talk) 19:15, 12 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Don't see anything about him outside of the party activities, meetings, etc., nothing biographical, no background. The 3 "Reason" articles are to be counted as one (as per wp:n), but we still only get mentions. Lamona (talk) 20:14, 13 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Regarding this notion of "mentions", from the GNG policy itself, it is worth pointing out that, "Significant coverage is more than a trivial mention, but it does not need to be the main topic of the source material." That also discounts that some of these, such as the Nick Gillespie piece, is solely and entirely covering Heise. Given his position in that movement, and the coverage from the Southern Poverty Law Center. This should merit inclusion. ♥Th78blue (talk)♥ 22:14, 17 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
For the umpteenth time, the SPLC source is an opinion editorial, and as such cannot be considered to be a reliable source. Rather, it is simply the opinion of that author. Curbon7 (talk) 23:15, 17 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep It is my view that this is a very important article to keep since the Libertarian Party is the third largest party and it seems as though the Mises Caucus faction has retained control of how the party operates for the near future. Michael Heise is going to be an ongoing relevant figure for this party, particularly in the 2024 presidential election when it is likely that the Mises Caucus will have an outsized sway on who they select to be the party nominee. I also disagree with some of the claims that a lot of there is an issue with the sources, Reason, Washington Post, and the SPLC are all RSes as far as I know and after listening the Reason interview, it seems as though they are actually challenging his claims and could hardly be called soft ball coverage. I think that as time goes on and the election gets closer, there will be even more RSes that we can use to expand and strengthen this page. I believe it should be kept. Pulpfiction621 (talk) 14:48, 17 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Almost none of your statement is rooted in policy. Wikipedia is not a crystal ball; we can't predict who may become notable. Also, the SPLC source is not reliable, as it is an opinion editorial. Curbon7 (talk) 14:51, 17 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect Notability is largely WP:INHERITED from Mises Caucus. MrsSnoozyTurtle 08:43, 19 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 21:55, 18 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Emmery Edward

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Fails WP:GNG and lacks WP:SIGCOV. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 18:35, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete per nom. Any mentions in the sources I have sifted through are trivial. No evidence of WP:SIGCOV. User:SmackJam (talk) 02:05, 13 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 11:01, 13 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Doczilla _{@SUPERHEROLOGIST} 20:36, 18 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Francis Lastic

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Fails WP:GNG and lacks WP:SIGCOV. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 18:31, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep - He has managed his country's national tam for 6 years and I found sources which show he is notable in Saint Lucia like [19], among other sources. Having been a top flight and international capped footballer in the 1990s to early 2010s, there is also definitely offline sources about him. I look at the other Sports WikiProjects and they don't nearly have an article deleted per day, let alone 10+. By the time I finish writing this, another 10+ will probably be deleted. Article may need improvement, but definitely not deletion. Thanks, Das osmnezz (talk) 22:58, 12 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - no evidence of notability. The above CONACAF source is not enough. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 11:01, 13 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - Significant coverage is the standard, and there is no evidence of it here. The single source provided by Das osmnezz is not nearly in depth enough to meet this. Bear in mind that SPORTBASIC #5 requires SIGCOV sources to be present in the article; saying that they're likely to exist based on achievement, participation, etc is not sufficient to establish notability. –dlthewave ☎ 04:35, 14 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - Fails GNG. Das' source isn't independent of Lastic. Dougal18 (talk) 13:30, 14 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 21:55, 18 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Junior Laurencin

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Fails WP:GNG and lacks WP:SIGCOV. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 18:26, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - Nothing substantial showing upon a Google search. One online newspaper is behind a paywall, another possible lead is now a 404, and these [20] [21] are trivial. User:SmackJam (talk) 15:43, 12 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 11:00, 13 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Doczilla _{@SUPERHEROLOGIST} 20:36, 18 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Benhamadi Ybnou Charaf

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Fails WP:GNG and lacks WP:SIGCOV. I found this source, but unsure if it meets GNG [22], even then one source is not enough. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 18:22, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 10:59, 13 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: As per nom. No sources found Indianfootball98 (talk) 05:28, 15 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was speedy delete per criterion G5, creation by banned or blocked user. XOR'easter (talk) 19:31, 11 August 2022 (UTC) (non-admin closure)[reply]

Govt Senior Secondary School Chabutra Khas

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Fails WP:NSCHOOL Paul W (talk) 17:29, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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Note I've speedy deleted the article per WP:CSD#G5.-- Jezebel's Ponyo^{bons mots} 18:11, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Malcolmxl5 (talk) 19:30, 18 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Khwajagan Naqvi

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The subject of the page is unclear and lacks even basic context, let alone notability. Iskandar323 (talk) 17:09, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete no assertion of notability. --Jahaza (talk) 21:14, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete I tried several variant spellings and was unable to find any reliable information. Perhaps good sources exist offline, but for now, the information cannot be verified and there is no evidence of notability. —Ganesha811 (talk) 13:49, 14 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Delete The article has no coherency, is the article about somebody who is a descendant of Ali al-Hadi? Regardless, no notable or remarkable information can be found online - WP:BIO. ElderZamzam (talk) 01:40, 16 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus. Nomination withdrawn after the addition of new sources. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 21:52, 18 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Amar Gamal

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~~Has been effectively unsourced for years. Can't find anything that would meet our notability standards. Alyo (chat·edits) 16:19, 11 August 2022 (UTC)~~ With thanks to @DaffodilOcean: I withdraw this nom, as the sourcing has dramatically improved. Alyo (chat·edits) 17:47, 18 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete: Like nom, I couldn't find anything. Definitely fails the WP:GNG. —Danre98^{(talk^contribs)} 17:15, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Couldn't find any reliable sources at all. Ovinus (talk) 22:45, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I gave it a couple updates, but the only semi-reliable source I could find was the Amazon page selling her DVD. That in itself does not mean she is Wikipedia notable. Bear in mind, I wrote this page during an era where we really had not clearly defined notability guidelines like we have now (I even wrote an article about my aunt, who was "Puerto Rican teacher of the year" in New Jersey-that article stood here for three years!) So if I was not the creator, I'd honestly vote delete, but since I am, I will vote weak keep instead. Antonio About to get Old Martin (Dimelo...Dimelooooooooooooooo!) 23:00, 11 August, 2022 (UTC)
Comment - her real name is Teresa Infante^[1] and I have added a few sources to the article, though more would be needed. DaffodilOcean (talk) 10:23, 12 August 2022

References

^ Levin, Jordan (2002-01-10). "Orientalia celebrates the exotic". The Miami Herald. p. 300. Retrieved 2022-08-12.

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The result was delete. Doczilla _{@SUPERHEROLOGIST} 20:34, 18 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Bhumika Nanda Reang

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Non-notable politician. Sources cited provide only passing mentions, and a search finds nothing better; fails WP:GNG. Elected to a district assembly, therefore doesn't meet WP:NPOL either. Earlier declined at AfC, and re-draftified a couple of times, but creating editor insists on moving it to the main space, hence here we are. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 15:27, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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He is a notable politician. This page is a good option for Wikipedia main page. If not please edit it rather than deletion. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bru120 (talk • contribs)
I've blocked Bru120, the article's initial editor, primarily for clearly-retaliatory page-moves targeting DoubleGrazing, but there's also reason to suspect that the account is SPA/UPE. _signed,Rosguill ^talk 17:52, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete non notable party functionary. Mccapra (talk) 21:35, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: No sigcov seems to exist. Fails WP:GNG and WP:NPOL. Curbon7 (talk) 08:27, 12 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Malcolmxl5 (talk) 16:35, 18 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Aliia Roza

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non notable "spy" turned celebrity - the sources are all tantamount to gossip rags, from TMZ to NYP and Ladbible, which while not deprecated are nothing more than gossip outlets and clickbait sites. There is no meaningful in depth coverage of Roza. PRAXIDICAE🌈 15:11, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete per nom - there appears to be insufficient support for WP:GNG/WP:BASIC or other notability guidelines. In the article, a source described as "AP News" is published by the AP but marked "PRESS RELEASE: Paid content from Prodigy News", and my online search finds tabloid coverage, press releases, churned press releases, social media, a few red carpet Getty images, and a YouTube video stating "Aliia Roza was awarded as a Women Empowerment Influencer by World Bloggers and Influencers Awards second time in Cannes during 75th Film Festival 2022." Beccaynr (talk) 03:15, 12 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Whilst there is some coverage, I'm not seeing enough independant coverage to warrant a pass of WP:GNG. The awards are not significant, and it's WP:TOOSOON for an uncoming book to have any impact on notability. -Kj cheetham (talk) 12:14, 12 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete The coverage seems to have emerged after her comments on Ukraine-Russia war. I agree that WP:TOOSOON may apply. Orientls (talk) 04:14, 17 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete As other users have noted, the article's sources are of dubious nature. Furthermore, I believe WP:SOAPBOX applies as the article reads too much like a promotional piece. 2DKomplex (talk) 15:41, 17 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. Procedural close; the article was hijacked and since restored to the original version on a notable topic.(non-admin closure) MB 15:17, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Nazir Ahmed Kataria

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I couldn't find sufficient sources to meet WP:GNG. Suonii180 (talk) 15:08, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 17:36, 18 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Weesperstraat 113–117

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No indication of any notability found. Fram (talk) 14:24, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete as per nomination. I cannot find anything that could make this notable. Ruud Buitelaar (talk) 17:54, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Not notable. Even though one of its "inhabitants" (not sure how to say that in English), DataLab Amsterdam, might be notable, the building itself is not. --LordPeterII (talk) 18:11, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus. Modussiccandi (talk) 19:59, 19 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Bianca Canizio

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Fails WP:GNG and lacks WP:SIGCOV. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 03:20, 26 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment – Found sources → [23][24]--MonFrontieres (talk) 16:11, 26 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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Keep per sources above which show notability. Giant Snowman 19:16, 26 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The first source fails WP:100WORDS and the second is not independent of the subject. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 21:16, 26 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
What makes the second source not independent? BeanieFan11 (talk) 16:12, 27 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Further, WP:100WORDS is not a policy, it is merely an essay/suggestion. Frank Anchor 16:13, 29 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - Per MonFrontieres. Besides the sources MonFrontieres found, I found 3 among many other sources. In addition, she is a young International capped player with an ongoing career. I look at the other sports WikiProjects and they don't nearly have an article deleted per day, let alone 30. Article may need improvement, but definitely not deletion. Thanks, Das osmnezz (talk) 21:51, 28 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep this is a clear pass of WP:GNG per the sources provided by User:MonFrontieres. Despite User:Sportsfan 1234's false claims above, the WLOS source is independent as it was published by WLOS, the local ABC affiliate, which is in no way affiliated with the subject player or any team she is a part of. Frank Anchor 16:12, 29 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - Fails GNG. The Citizen-Times isn't significant coverage. I can't read the WLOS source but that would only be one source and GNG requires multiple. The warrenwilsonowls is not independent of her as Canizio is a student of the school. Dougal18 (talk) 09:57, 30 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The Citizen-Times source is adequate to provide WP:SIGCOV, it is just a little shorter than the 100-word suggestion arbitrarily called out by an WP:ESSAY. Even so, GNG “generally expects” but does not explicitly require, at least two “good” sources. So these two supplemented by the other minor coverage already in the article are enough to satisfy GNG. Frank Anchor 13:47, 30 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, one good source is resolutely not enough to pass GNG, "generally expects" is referring to how some editors consider more than two sources necessary to establish notability, not less. The Citzen-Times article is literally one extremely short paragraph in a small local newspaper that might not serve a big enough catchment area to be reliable in any case, that is not enough coverage to contribute to a GNG pass. Devonian Wombat (talk) 23:10, 2 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - a couple of additional local press articles (Cherokee Scout, available via NewsBank), added to existing sources, add up to a narrow GNG pass, in my opinion.

"Canizio named All-American again", Cherokee Scout (NC), December 17, 2014 (713 Words)

"Murphy alum Canizio earns all-American for third year", November 25, 2015 (406 Words)

"Canizio seeks pro venture", Cherokee Scout (NC), June 15, 2016 (523 Words)

Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 11:00, 3 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The Cherokee Scout is the local newspaper of Murphy, North Carolina, a small town of less than 2,000 people. Cherokee County itself is home to less than 30,000 people. The Scout is almost certainly not a reliable source due to how small the catchment area is. Devonian Wombat (talk) 23:04, 3 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Where does WP say that small papers are unreliable? BeanieFan11 (talk) 15:08, 6 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Small newspapers usually don't have the resources to maintain a proper editorial and fact-checking system; according to LinkedIn the Scout employs only 10 people for example. They generally engage in hyperlocal routine coverage and churnalism; and they like all local news are notoriously vulnerable to publishing paid content masquerading as proper news. Devonian Wombat (talk) 23:48, 8 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete The first source given above is not SIGCOV. It states only basic information and provides negligible context or commentary. WP:100WORDS is an essay and I'm not sure how widely accepted it is. The second source is better in terms of coverage, but is not independent: It includes several quotes from the subject. The rest of the sources in the article are database sources, not indicative of notability. As to local news coverage... I disfavor using such newspapers to establish notability, as Devonian Wombat notes. Ovinus (talk) 22:53, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- How is the WLOS article not independent? BeanieFan11 (talk) 17:54, 14 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  - It is built around an interview with the subject. Ovinus (talk) 04:06, 15 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    - There is enough relevant non-interview content in this article that makes it clearly GNG-approved. Carson Wentz (talk) 12:50, 15 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per the sources provided by other users giving the subject enough coverage to pass GNG. The sources provided by User:BennyOnTheLoose are acceptable and can not be discounted solely because they are from a smaller publications. The WLOS source above is certainly GNG approved as well. And others are questionable but there is enough overall independent significant coverage for this article to be kept. Carson Wentz (talk) 17:03, 13 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Keep. The WLOS article clearly counts towards GNG (some users are saying that including quotes from an interview discount it from being SIGCOV? Show me that policy please), and I remain unconvinced that small-town papers cannot contribute to GNG, and as we have four pieces of SIGCOV from the Cherokee Scout in addition to the article from WLOS, we have enough for GNG. BeanieFan11 (talk) 14:12, 15 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Interviews are not secondary or independent, so do not contribute to establishing notability (per BASIC). The issues with "small town papers" has been noted above; their reliability is questionable and they commonly publish community submitted articles without any editorial oversight or acknowledgement. _wjemather^{please leave a message...} 11:11, 16 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

There is enough non-interview content in the WLOS source for it to be considered a clear pass of GNG. Carson Wentz (talk) 14:25, 16 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Disagree (see below). Also, it reads like a press release and GNG requires multiple sources. _wjemather^{please leave a message...} 14:34, 16 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Delete in the absence of a suitable list (e.g. List of United States Virgin Islands women's international soccer players or List of United States Virgin Islands international soccer players) to redirect to as an WP:ATD – although United States Virgin Islands women's national soccer team is an option for a redirect now, I have discounted that as I do not expect her to be mentioned there indefinitely. There is entirely insufficient significant coverage in reliable secondary sources independent of the subject to pass WP:GNG/WP:BASIC. Per WP:WHYN, we need such coverage in order to create a whole article without policy issues. WLOS comes closest but falls short of the requirements because there is no independent commentary or discussion of her aside from a few throwaway facts; interestingly, the (apparent) author is now director of communications at the soccer club. _wjemather^{please leave a message...} 11:11, 16 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per arguments above. The brief profile in local news regarding her signing is mostly quotes with very little independent commentary, none of it encyclopedic. The Citizen Times "High School Huddle" piece is nowhere near SIGCOV and utterly fails YOUNGATH. And the Warren Wilson interview is by her own college, obviously failing independence; that this is one of dozens of unquestionably inadmissible sources produced by Das osmnezz across many AfDs raises serious WP:CIR concerns. JoelleJay (talk) 02:35, 17 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus. Arbitrarily0 ^(talk) 02:41, 19 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Group of Belarusian military specialists in Venezuela

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The article reads like it is telling a story per WP:OR. Most of the content is unsourced.

It is very common of countries to provide assistance to each other when it comes to developing military technologies. I don't see why this trivial subject even needs own article per WP:NOPAGE. Aman Kumar Goel ^(Talk) 12:41, 27 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep and Rename to Belarus–Venezuela relations. The sources cited in the article appear reliable within the limited scope of what Belarusian policy actually is towards Venezuela. Relations between the two countries, of which military co-operation is a subset, appears to be a WP:GNG pass per at least the following references: 1 2 3 4 5 6. FOARP (talk) 14:20, 27 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, cleanup and rename to Belarus-Venezuela relations. While some of the info seems WP:OR, it can be still retained after rescoping. ~~

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The result was delete. ✗plicit 12:32, 18 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Faisal Shaikh (influencer)

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Fails WP:GNG and WP:NACTOR ( The actor is in only one TV show as a contestant (Not Winner) and There is also in the web series but the source are all mentioned as Tik Tok star. It has been deleted twice before. Now this is the third time in Afd. [25], [26]) PravinGanechari (talk) 12:14, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment: I was really unaware that this article has been deleted before in AfD. I was just surfing google and saw hundreds of articles in trend about his participation in the show Khatron Ke Khiladi. I just created the article of him. —Botu Yadav (talk) 13:06, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: Per nomination. C1K98V ^{(💬 ✒️ 📂)} 13:33, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I believe this article should not be delayed because the subject has notability. You can check the references. He has been in a leading role of a Hindi language series too and now a part of a reality show as a contestant. Rejoy2003 (talk)

Delete – no indication of notability per WP:NACTOR or WP:GNG. Being a reality show contestant is not a claim to notability. --bonadea contributions talk 18:34, 16 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I haven't mentioned above tha being a "contestant" is a claim to his notability. The guy has been into a leading role for a web show/series. The rest I'll leave it to the reviewers or admins Rejoy2003 (talk)

Delete: Per nom. Subject clearly fails WP:ENT and WP:GNG. ManaliJain (talk) 04:33, 17 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was soft delete. Based on minimal participation, this uncontroversial nomination is treated as an expired PROD (a.k.a. "soft deletion"). Editors can request the article's undeletion. ✗plicit 12:33, 18 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Amin Aslani

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There's no significant coverage. Poorly sourced. Some sources are not considered as major references. A source like CICinema is not reliable because everybody in Iran knows that it has many misinformation. Of course many people go to some school, but what's the reason to mention it in Wikipedia when there's no special or notable achievement? A PhD student with not a single article? not in English (like in JSTOR or any other platform), nor in Persian (check irandoc.ac.ir, ensani.ir). Anybody can publish books but that alone doesn't make one notable. Editing some short films and making some alleged (but with no source) short films does not make people notable or eligible for an English article in Wikipedia. Having parents with Wikipedia pages is not enough to meet the notability requirements of Wikipedia. Even the Persian Wikipedia article related to this article/person is removed. This article smells like a self-promotion (reeks of WP:PROMO) which is very common nowadays in Iran. There are many other persons of the same name by the way. messymo (talk)

Automated comment: This AfD was not correctly transcluded to the log (step 3). I have transcluded it to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2022 August 11. —^{cyberbot I}_{Talk to my owner:Online} 11:34, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was redirect to Soccer in Saba. I cannot redirect to Football in Saba as that page is itself a redirect. A page move can always be considered next. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:41, 16 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Saba national soccer team

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Short version: it doesn't have one. Saba is an island with less than 2,000 inhabitants, and doesn't even have one actual full size soccer pitch. They aren't a member of any soccer organization. They don't have a local competition. But from time to time, the, well, village team played matches against a neighbouring small island (population just over 3,000 people). Lacks notability or even real existence (it isn't even a "nation" so the term "national team" is rather loosely applied here). Fram (talk) 10:56, 4 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment. Still overthinking whether this should be kept or merged into football in Saba. gidonb (talk)
Redirect to Football in Saba as possible search term. Giant Snowman 19:29, 5 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. A few years ago I created the article Soccer in Saba because my research indicated that they call it soccer. The page that was created more recently, Football in Saba, is a duplicate and has been found to have multiple issues. If it is decided that a redirect is appropriate, it should be to Soccer in Saba and the duplicate article should be speedily deleted..--Gri3720 (talk) 23:51, 5 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nom. starship .paint (exalt) 03:08, 6 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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Redirect to Soccer in Saba. It looks like Football in Saba has been redirected to Soccer in Saba, so the only option now for a redirect between the two plausible search term is to Soccer in Saba. Fats40boy11 (talk) 20:25, 12 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. ✗plicit 12:35, 18 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Arcadia in the arts and popular culture

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Another failure of WP:IPC (also, WP:GNG, WP:NLIST, WP:V - mostly unreferenced, and even WP:OR. Unsourced definition of the concept, unclear inclusion criteria, pretty much the usual list of media which use the term Arcadia. It's contains a ton of stuff like "The mythic world that adorns the album covers of the rock band Asia, specifically the albums Alpha (1983) and Astra (1985). The album Astra was tentatively titled Arcadia." or "In Yu-Gi-Oh! 5Ds, there is an organisation called the Arcadia movement." Sigh. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 09:37, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete or redirect if anyone can find anything salvageable. It's the typical TVTropes laundry list of minutia that fails to meet GNG. If there is anything to salvage, it should be started as prose in the main article and then organically split back out at a later time. TTN (talk) 13:31, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - Another "pop culture" list that has no actual sourced discussion on the topic, just a TV Tropes style list of trivia. Of note, aside from the article on the actual historical region of Arcadia (region), we actually already have another separate article on the depictions in art of the mythical version at Arcadia (utopia). And while that article is also half made up of pop culture trivia lists that should probably be removed, it at least has a decent amount of prose text on the topic, so it would serve as the foundation of an improved form of an article on the topic far better than this list, which does not actually have any sourced content of worth that should be preserved or merged over there. Rorshacma (talk) 15:13, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: The term "Arcadia" commonly appears in fiction. There are no clear restrictions on what should be included in the list of Arcadian references in art and popular culture. Furthermore, the vast majority of the content is original research and trivia. ―Susmuffin ^Talk 19:45, 12 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Indiscriminate example farm that violates Wikipedia policy. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 09:10, 13 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Its trivial per nom. Orientls (talk) 17:31, 13 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 07:21, 18 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Taqwa International School

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Indian primary school in Riyadh, closed in 2012 for flouting building regulations. Not notable, fails WP:GNG. Alexandermcnabb (talk) 10:52, 28 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep - This article includes two newspaper references from Arab News which does an 'in-depth' coverage of the school, this one from 2007 as well as this one from 2011. In my opinion, it's enough for establishment of notability. Derivator2017 (talk) 11:24, 28 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Have you read those articles? "Taqwa International School, a new addition on the educational scene of Riyadh is the brainchild of a group of highly-educated, like-minded and motivated group of individuals. They all have a common vision of imparting quality education with equal emphasis on character building." An interview with the director! The second one is bylined 'Arab News Staff' (which means 'press release') and opines, “We have seen phenomenal growth without compromising our core values. We believe the school re-location will be a welcome change to students and parents,” Taqwa International School Chairman Rizwan Zahoor said, adding “This is what matters because this is our underlying commitment to parents.” SIGCOV? Nah. Best Alexandermcnabb (talk) 12:37, 28 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Those are clearly based on press releases and hence, do not satisfy WP:INDY. 174.212.212.9 (talk) 22:42, 29 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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Delete. I concur with Alexandermcnabb's (and IP's) assessment of the quality of the sources: Only an interview & press release. The ones from Daijiworld are both about the same incident, more or less, which is the closure of the school. I couldn't find any more coverage, and thus we have only 2 acceptable sources, one short of the minimum. And even then, both are about a single event – if the school is only notable for its closure, with coverage of that only by one source, it's far too little. --LordPeterII (talk) 18:31, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Modussiccandi (talk) 14:31, 19 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Umid Najjari

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References are to article subject's own poetic works or reviews of those works, not to the subject himself. Does not appear to meet WP:NCREATIVE, awards mentioned are not notable awards, no evidence that subject has had broad literary influence on Azerbaijani or Persian poetry, his work as publicist and translator do not appear to have relevance. A loose necktie (talk) 11:53, 27 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Authors, Poetry, and Iran. Shellwood (talk) 13:57, 27 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Poorly sourced, promotional. Fails WP:GNG let alone WP:CREATIVE. Best Alexandermcnabb (talk) 14:18, 27 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Mr. A loose necktie (talk) Umid Najjari is a young poet. He has a special place in Azerbaijani poetry. Mr. Najari writes poems in the style of surrealism. Periodically, his writings are published in Azerbaijani and world literary almanacs. His books were published in Azerbaijan, Iran, Albania, Montenegro, Serbia, and Uzbekistan. He participates in almost all poetry festivals of young poets in Europe. In addition, his poems have been published in prestigious poetic publications in many countries. I can post their link here if you want. I should also note that Mr. Umid is actively engaged in translation. He translated and published the works of Mahmoud Darwish, Sadegh Hedayat and Federico García Lorca into Azerbaijani. As for references, I can post links to his creations if needed. Please Mr.Alexandermcnabb (talk, Mr.A loose necktie (talk, Mr.Shellwood (talk reconsider the decision to delete the page. --Rövşən İşık (talk) 17:37, 27 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Please understand that Wikipedia does not decide to retain or delete articles based on the number of successful publications of an author, nor on how much translation he/ she may have done, and we do not need to see links to the subject's creations. What we need to see is evidence that the subject HIMSELF (not his poetry, not his translations) has been the subject of in-depth discussion by multiple independent verifiable reliable published sources. Participation in poetry festivals doesn't count towards this, and the fact that he is young or that his poems are surrealistic have no bearing. If the subject some day does receive that kind of coverage, you may always attempt to recreate this page. A loose necktie (talk) 20:09, 27 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
my dear friend. I read Wikipedia every day. And I also see very weak profiles. In my opinion, deleting this page is biased and unfair 5.134.54.153 (talk) 06:30, 28 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Mr. A loose necktie (talk) I understand what you wrote. I also have information on important person requirements on Wikipedia. I have tried to show only the main activity of the person's creativity as a reference in the article. Here I put the link of ideas and information about Umid Najjari's creativity. I will post these links in the article as well. Although they are in different languages, they are dedicated to the creativity of the person. Please see it: PhD Bujar Tafa of opinions about Umid Najjari's poetry Fotoja e errësirës e Umid Najarit Nga Dr. Bujar Tafa, fbclid=IwAR2l0yGWabCkOgguZN4wkA0kqzB79%20w7hHsYjU%20ZTYCOHOR3hHozlbYz2eo Ümid Nəccari - yaralarından qaranlığa danışan adam - Elnarə AKİMOVA, Ayrılıqların sürreal mənzərəsi... Bir cüt mavilik - Azər TURAN, ترجمه و چاپ مجموعه اشعار "آخرین پرنده" گروس عبدالملکیان در باکو, حایات فرقیلیدیر / امید نجاری ایشیق, “QARANLIĞIN FOTOSU” BAKI AVRASİYA UNİVERSİTETİNDƏ, "Qaranlığın fotosu" haqqında... - Andreana DVORNİÇ, S-a încheiat cea de-a IX-a ediție a Festivalului Internațional de Poezie de la Craiova, Croatian poetess and scientist Katarina Sarić post about Umid Najjari Izbor iz poezije azerbejdžanskog pesnika Umida Nadžarija (Umid Najjari) --Rövşən İşık (talk) 09:13, 28 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I am not sure you are hearing me. I have used Google Translate to read these articles-- some of the links you provided are only links to his poems; others are links to discussion of these poems. In order for us to host an article on this person, we need references that discuss him, ones that tell us where he grew up, where he studied, who has influenced him, etc., not analysis of his works (though these are helpful). I understand you feel very strongly about his poetry, and firmly believe he is notable enough to warrant a Wikipedia article. But we can't create the substance of an article about him by reading critiques of his poems. Even the article that describes his being given an award at a university is all about the awards ceremony and recounts who was there and did what-- it doesn't tell us anything about him other than that he got an award (or at least, I didn't see anything-- correct me if you feel I am wrong). The article that mentions an international award he had won, and which states that he himself notified them that he got the award, is a perfect example of the kind of coverage that does NOT augment a notability argument because it lacks WP:INDEPENDENCE. A loose necktie (talk) 15:30, 28 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I understand your request now. These resources are also available. Official sites of the United States

https://spillwords.com/author/umidnajjari/

https://www.wordsandworldsmagazine.com/current-issue-aktuelle-ausgabe/poetry-gedichte/umid-najjari/

Belgium

https://www.iwabogdani.org/2021/12/14/poems-by-umid-najjari/ 5.134.52.249 (talk) 19:46, 28 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hello Mr.A loose necktie (talk) I understand your position very well. Yes, you are right that I have great love for human creativity. The arguments you mentioned are not unreasonable, but they are not a reason to delete a person's page. In the links here, the person's creativity has been evaluated. If he was an insignificant poet, he would not have been invited to international poetry festivals. I am familiar with the WP:INDEPENDENCE. And I know the requirements for individuals there. There it is written that in addition to the degree of importance of the person, the work done by him is also important. In the links above, Umid Najjari's work is widely described.I will put the important parts mentioned in WP:INDEPENDENCE here.--Rövşən İşık (talk) 09:35, 29 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 22:02, 3 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 08:51, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Delete does not meet the GNG. --Guerillero ^{Parlez Moi} 12:16, 19 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Arbitrarily0 ^(talk) 02:39, 19 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

International Dialogue for Environmental Action

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This was soft deleted a couple of months ago, but was recently accepted as an article again. The article creation was a mistake. The article is purely promotional for the subject of the article (WP:G11), who is the daughter of Azerbaijan's authoritarian leader. There is no independent reliable sourcing about this organization. There is nothing to indicate that it is notable. The administrator who accepted the article creation says the article is notable because the regime in Azerbaijan created a stamp about the organization – I would strongly dispute that a father making a stamp for his daughter's organization is an indicator of notability. Per WP's notability guidelines, "A topic is presumed to be suitable for a stand-alone article or list when it has received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject" – this article fails that basic requirement. Wikipedia is not LinkedIn. Thenightaway (talk) 15:30, 27 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Organizations and Azerbaijan. Shellwood (talk) 15:37, 27 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

This article was soft deleted a couple of months ago, was re-written by me, and published by Graeme Bartlett. The article was reviewed and then re-published as “reliable sources that are independent of the subject”, as instructed in Wikipedia’s general notability guideline (WP:GNG), were the only sources used. So, it is “presumed to be suitable for a stand-alone article or list” (WP:GNG).

All information from the previous version of the article was deleted and re-written from blank, so it would portray the subject of an existing organization by using only reliable third-party sources, such as the official websites of the UIA and the UNEP, both organizations that work under the UN.

Most importantly, the reconstruction of the page was made specifically to represent the subject so it will follow Wikipedia’s core policy, NPOV:

- No opinions were presented by fact or vice versa (WP:YESPOV)

- No assertions were presented as facts (WP:YESPOV)

- A nonjudgmental language was used (WP:YESPOV)

The only violation of NVOP was made by Thenightaway in his explanation for why to delete the article. “I would strongly dispute that a father making a stamp for his daughter's organization is an indicator of notability” clearly represents their personal views of an existing regime and does not follow NPOV policy. Mriogrech (talk) 09:43, 28 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

First, this editor has made very few edits and a lot of them revolve around adding puffery to pages related to Leyla Aliyeva. I strongly suspect undisclosed WP:COI. Second, the sources in question (that the editor claims are indicative of notability) are just lists or listings published by international organizations. This particular organization is one of countless organizations that are mentioned on those lists – those listings are not in any way indicative of notability. How could this kind of sourcing be indicative of notability:[27]. It's akin to saying that any company that exists in publicly available records maintained by the US government deserves its own Wikipedia page. Thenightaway (talk) 13:09, 28 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Having an interest in a specific subject does not mean you have a conflict of interests, as it is shown that the re-written article follows all NPOV rules (WP:YESPOV).

After rewriting it, it now follows Wikipedia rules (which it hadn’t before), both NPOV and the use of reliable sources (WP:GNG).

I firmly believe this page should be portrayed as it contains valid information about an existing organization, and qualifies to be a stand-alone article (WP:GNG). Mriogrech (talk) 14:04, 28 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

"Keep". Given the politics of Azerbaijan it seems clear that an organisation supported by the president is notable.Rathfelder (talk) 09:36, 3 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

It doesn't seem clear to me at all. What notability guideline does that logic correspond to? Should we also create a Wikipedia page for his favorite restaurant? Thenightaway (talk) 22:52, 3 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 22:09, 3 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Context is everything. Rathfelder (talk) 06:37, 6 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete: not notable, the references are mostly passing mention in lists, "supported by the president" is a WP:Routine in Azerbaijan, as he does "support" and "sign" every insignificant thing (e.g. renovating the fence of a park). - Kevo³²⁷ (talk) 08:54, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. As stated above, this is not notable at all, just a dictator's daughter blowing the people's hard earned money for ~~expensive clothes, boyfriends, stupid financial decisions, internet clout~~ "activism". I have a strong feeling that some editors here might have an undisclosed COI... Handmeanotherbagofthemchips (talk) 16:46, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Ι realise that what i wrote above might be a little bit offensive, however, i still stand by my vote. Handmeanotherbagofthemchips (talk) 19:12, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nom. Possible promotion. Even if it's not, lacks evidence of notability. Doczilla _{@SUPERHEROLOGIST} 20:33, 18 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was redirect to Queen Zixi of Ix. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 04:55, 18 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Ix (Oz)

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No WP:SIGCOV to meet Wikipedia's WP:NOTABILITY guideline. There are trivial mentions, but nothing to build an article that is WP:NOT just WP:PLOT details. Cannot be improved because there isn't significant enough coverage in reliable independent secondary sources that can provide out-of-universe context. Jontesta (talk) 04:35, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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Redirect to Queen Zixi of Ix. Poorly referenced plot summary, fails WP:GNG as written. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 09:31, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Science fiction and fantasy and Literature. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 09:32, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Queen Zixi of Ix - A perma-stub that is mostly made up of in-universe plot information, and does not have sufficient sources to justify a separate article. Redirecting it to the book where it was focused on would make sense, though. Taking a quick look, it does not appear that there is any information on this page that is not also present somewhere in that article already, so merging would not be needed. Rorshacma (talk) 15:19, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep or merge with Queen Zixi of Ix while establishing a section for the settings in the spirit of WP:PRESERVE. --Rtkat3 (talk) 18:12, 13 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect - The topic fails GNG, so it doesn't need to exist as its own article. The above target makes sense for redirection. TTN (talk) 19:15, 14 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was soft delete. Based on minimal participation, this uncontroversial nomination is treated as an expired PROD (a.k.a. "soft deletion"). Editors can request the article's undeletion. ✗plicit 13:19, 16 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Transit Game

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Article about a short film, referenced entirely to primary sources that are not support for notability and making no attempt at a notability claim that would satisfy WP:NFO. There's also a direct conflict of interest here, as the article has been extensively edited by an editor with the username "TransitGame". Bearcat (talk) 03:58, 4 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 03:36, 18 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Shane Marshall (footballer)

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Fails WP:GNG and lacks WP:SIGCOV. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 03:36, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Football, and Caribbean. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 03:36, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - Only decent source that I could find (albeit through a rudimentary Google search) is this, which could probably be argued as WP:ROUTINE. Everything else I could find, such as [28] [29] [30] [31], is plainly trivial or just an image hosting site. The only source in the current article is also a dead link and doesn't seem to have been archived, so good luck figuring out how substantial that was. User:SmackJam (talk) 15:33, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 19:48, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was soft delete. Based on minimal participation, this uncontroversial nomination is treated as an expired PROD (a.k.a. "soft deletion"). Editors can request the article's undeletion. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 03:34, 18 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Triston Sandy

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Fails WP:GNG and lacks WP:SIGCOV. Sources such as [32] are trivial, and therefore fails WP:SPORTCRIT. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 03:32, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 19:48, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. ✗plicit 03:08, 18 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The Woodlands, Indiana

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This was redirected to its enclosing township, but I have reverted that because I do not agree that such redirection is an appropriate option for dealing with a non-notable subdivision: for that is what this is. Some developer, in the vainglorious days of mid-1990s real estate, carved little niches into the forest and plunked down a series of McManors (they are on the small side for proper McMansions) along a suitably winding drive, surely advertised in the Indy Star's real estate section, but otherwise unremarked. The Eagle Township article, like this article as written, uses the euphemism "unincorporated community" rather than calling this place what it is. It's not a term we should use and I doubt the virtue of listing some subset of subdivisions simply because GNIS happened to note them. Mangoe (talk) 03:07, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete A name so generic it could describe around 100+ subdivisions created since Indiana became a state. Nate • (chatter) 17:18, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Eagle Township, Boone County, Indiana, where it is mentioned, per NGEO (If a Wikipedia article cannot be developed using known sources, information on the informal place should be included in the more general article on the legally recognized populated place or administrative subdivision that contains it.) and AtD.Djflem (talk) 05:03, 13 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Non-notable subdivision. TH1980 (talk) 03:06, 14 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete There are tens of thousands of generic non-notable subdivisions like this in the US, and they should not be catalogued in township articles. Reywas92^Talk 07:40, 14 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus. There are assertions of notability and non-notability, but nobody is discussing the sources. Sigh. Sandstein 18:48, 19 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Mile 16

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I had already nominated Mile 17 for AfD without realising there's also a Mile 16 article. Please God there aren't another 15 of these. Fails WP:GNG; WP:GEOLAND, utterly without note. Alexandermcnabb (talk) 07:33, 20 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment Does this jibe with: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bolifamba? Djflem (talk) 18:02, 20 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep satifies GNG and ~~rename~~ move Bolifamba. Djflem (talk) 19:40, 25 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Comment If there is a notable place called Bolifamba, then there should be an article about Bolifamba. But taking a non-notable place (Mile 16) and adding information to that article about Bolifamba to argue that Mile 16 should be kept as Bolifamba is a little like adding information about Christmas Island into this article and then suggesting it be kept as Christmas Island. This deletion discussion relates to whether Mile 16 is notable or not and therefore deserving of an article. Not Bolifamba, The Chesapeake Marimba Orchestra or Belly Dancing in Casablanca. Or am I just reading this all wrong? Best Alexandermcnabb (talk) 04:08, 26 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

MOVE (rename) can be appropriate: Issues to be addressed by changing the page title (and perhaps then expanding or improving its content). This can happen at AFD especially, if the article could be suitable for Wikipedia, but is created under an inappropriate title, and was nominated for deletion, but consensus agrees it is fixable if the title is changed. Depends on the due diligence (or lack thereof) done in research BEFORE making the nomination and subsequent investigation of the information/RS currently available online added to the article since. The Christmas Island spin demonstrates a rather disingenous distraction & lack of willingness to address that. What has your research found? (Generally about the history, land use, and placenaming in Cameroon and specifically about this place to contribute to the improvement the encyclopedia?)Djflem (talk) 21:43, 26 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗plicit 09:06, 27 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗plicit 11:49, 3 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Keep and move to Bolifamba. There is clearly some a populated, legally recognized place being described in the article. That is enough for GEOLAND. It needs a copyedit for clarity, but deletion is not cleanup. House Blaster^talk 00:56, 4 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Can those wishing to rename provide evidence of the notability of Bolifamba?
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Vanamonde (Talk) 02:55, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

If you are wish to join the discussion with your question, please do. (And review the sources). Can you remove the relist and make you comment in the appropriate way or close the AfD in the appropriate way? Thank you. Djflem (talk) 11:34, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Addendum: see above Keep: satisfies GNG based on references. Djflem (talk) 20:54, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Aside from some WP:ILIKEIT arguments that I am ignoring, the "keep" arguments here are largely based on WP:LISTN and the coverage that number of spotify followers has received. The "delete" arguments largely do not dispute this coverage, but point to WP:VENDOR and WP:SINGLEVENDOR as reasons why this isn't suitable for inclusion; or in plain English, the facts that this is essentially a music chart from a single vendor, and that it is never going to be stable. I find the arguments favoring deletion stronger, and they have not been substantively rebutted. There is a fundamental issue with an article that's going to be permanently inaccurate. There is also a substantive numerical tilt towards deletion. Vanamonde (Talk) 11:25, 19 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

List of most-followed artists on Spotify

AfDs for this article:

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

I noticed a discussion was started last year and the result was to keep the article based on the topic being notable i.e. a legitimate topic of interest. However, as I understand it, people are now sourcing direct from Spotify and so these numbers could fluctuate drastically? We don't use Spotify, iTunes, Deezer or AppleMusic (or any other vendor charts) across Wikipedia because they're non-static and change all the time (see WP:RECORDCHARTS). Futhermore WP:VENDOR also says "It may be impossible to provide a stable source for the alleged ranking".... For such reasons, such rankings are usually avoided as Wikipedia content. On that basis, I know people feel strongly about such lists, but I would argue that a single vendor one that can change daily, monthly, weekly is not encyclopaedic. >> Lil-unique1 (talk) — 22:48, 27 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bands and musicians and Lists. >> Lil-unique1 (talk) — 22:48, 27 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment: hasn't the list always been sourced directly from the artists follower counts on their profiles though? I'm not aware of any chart that provides this data. Secondary media sources occasionally cover when artists reach certain milestones, but no one ever constantly publishes detailed data about it because followers are a dynamic stat. -- Carlobunnie (talk) 00:25, 28 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  No it was previously sourced from Chart Masters which is a copyright violation and mirror of Spotify and also out of date. Follower count literally fluctuates every minute meaning this page could be constantly out of date every time its published. >> Lil-unique1 (talk) — 08:53, 28 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  Oh. I forgot about that site since it's an unofficial source, so I got a little confused when you said "...other vendor chart" in your original post because ik there's no official chart that tracks Spotify followers, not even Spotify has an official list or ranking of that. I've been updating the page for about maybe 2 yrs roughly (iirc) and take stats directly from the artist profiles (I also added the secondary sources in the lead) since there's no other way to get the most up-to-date data. Secondary sources have covered follower stats over the years for various artists, but mostly do so for major milestones as opposed to publishing constant/regular updates. -- Carlobunnie (talk) 17:06, 28 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - per nom and WP:NOT. We document things like "number ones", but not the entire charts. If you want to know the most followes Spotify artist, you should be going to Spotify, not Wikipedia. We shouldn't be a barebones mirror to Spotify. Sergecross73 msg me 23:53, 27 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Sergecross73: But on Spotify it isn't clear which artists have more followers than others. if you mean the artist rating in the box at the bottom of the page, it is based on monthly listeners which has a separate list.--Hamedkazemi2 (talk) 01:52, 28 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Comment The follows on spotify can be upped by bots, stream-farming is a thing as well. They really don't give much information and can be fakes/inflated. None of this is much for wiki notability, unless we create a discussion about stream farms and bot-inflation of numbers. Oaktree b (talk) 04:27, 28 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - per nom and Serge's reasoning particularly. Spotify is a massive organisation, I'm sure that info can be found in dozens of listicles/data-vacuuming sites across the internet. WP has higher standards than that and this does not meet them for the reasons mentioned above. QuietHere (talk) 13:27, 28 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - on the Spotify platform, unlike the browser, it isn't possible to see the number of followers of artists. and this makes people curious. this list helps to determine which artists have the most followers. this list should be expanded and updated everyday. Hamedkazemi2 (talk) 14:16, 28 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Please see WP:ITSUSEFUL. Your argument doesn't address notability or NOT concerns. Sergecross73 msg me 15:00, 28 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I am confused: if it isn't possible to see the numbers, what's the source for most of this chart? I clicked on one link and it didn't seem to contain that number. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 16:27, 28 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I have also the same question/concern of Piotrus. Where the numbers came from? Or I have the impression those numbers still taken from ChartMasters instead of Spotify. Please advise. --Apoxyomenus (talk) 16:31, 28 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Its my understanding that the numbers come from Chart Masters, Twitter and a range of other sources including the artist's page on Spotify but is visible when you have the app/desktop version installed as opposed to the browser version. >> Lil-unique1 (talk) — 17:13, 28 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Can't speak for prior to when I put the page on my watchlist, but I take the numbers directly from the artist profiles on the desktop app. However, like Lil-unique1 said, it's a dynamic stat, so the list can never truly be up-to-date at any given point, regardless of whether the stats come from a primary source or a reliable secondary source. -- Carlobunnie (talk) 17:21, 28 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Your argument doesn't explain why per WP:VENDOR this list should be kept. We keep any rankings or chart listing tabulated by WP:SINGLEVENDOR so why should this be any different? >> Lil-unique1 (talk) — 16:00, 31 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. This USA Today listicle suggests this may meet WP:LISTN. Can anyone find more RS to save this? --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 16:28, 28 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
That doesn't address that the list is based on non-static stats that constantly change, and WP:VENDOR advises against retail stats. >> Lil-unique1 (talk) — 17:12, 28 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep because other sources publish this list. Binksternet (talk) 22:09, 4 August 2022 (UTC) However, its data could be merged to List of most-streamed artists on Spotify. Both Chartmasters and Guinness maintain a list of most-followed Spotify artists, which would indicate that a list article such as this can exist on Wikipedia, but we already have a related article at List of most-streamed artists on Spotify, which also mentions the most-followed artists. Alternatively, we could merge the most-streamed over to the most-followed list. Note that Spotify added the 'About' tab in 2015, differentiating for the first time the number of monthly streams. Prior to that, the number of followers was the main statistic. So followers is older than streams. Binksternet (talk) 16:38, 28 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- The notional merged article could be moved to List of most popular artists on Spotify, with both streaming and followed stats shown in sortable cells in the same table. One could sort by streaming or by followed. Binksternet (talk) 18:08, 30 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment about WP:VENDOR: the guideline doesn't apply here because Chartmasters and Guinness both carry the information. Spotify is not the only source. Binksternet (talk) 03:27, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. As others have said, not only this stuff is extremely volatile, but it can also be manipulated by bots. Handmeanotherbagofthemchips (talk) 13:00, 30 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Lists like this and the most followed in social networks are always facing the problem of reliable sources. Most of the websites that provide such lists are either invalid or there are doubts about their validity. This applies not only to Spotify but also to other social networks. Reliable and credible websites have introduced the top 10 or 20. I searched the internet about this and found content that is invalid according to WP's rules and should be avoided. But their visits were high. Although some of them are obsolete. ChartMasters is an example of them. 2.185.124.64 (talk) 14:20, 30 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Not clear what about this makes it a keep vote. It sounds like you're just describing the same issue as the other editors above without a counterargument. Unless "But their visits were high" is referring to the WP list which is the subject of this AfD, but I don't think that's a valid counter. The page receiving high amounts of traffic might even be worse since there's no guarantee about the accuracy of the information which means all those visitors are being unknowingly misinformed about whatever they're trying to learn about. QuietHere (talk) 17:20, 30 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: Isn't this the same kind of thing as List of most-followed Twitter accounts or List of most-subscribed YouTube channels? A lot of the arguments about these numbers not being static, liable to bot manipulation, etc., would seem to apply equally to Wikipedia's other such "list of most-followed X accounts" articles (which we find to be acceptable), no? Endwise (talk) 00:44, 31 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
That's assuming the sourcing on those pages isn't more trustworthy than this page, and I think that's the whole point of concern regarding this AfD. I mean maybe their sourcing is equally as bad, I haven't checked, but either way it's not the subject matter that editors are at odds with here. QuietHere (talk) 03:09, 31 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Consider also the option of Merging content proposed here.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 22:32, 3 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Keep, passes WP:NLIST, as established in the first AfD and notability is not temporary. SailingInABathTub ~~🛁~~ 23:23, 3 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The first AfD focused on the notability of the list, this AfD focusses on the the fact that spotify rankings are not appropriate per WP:VENDOR and this list is potentially out of date every time its published because there's no static point from the sources. Spotify is not a reliable source for rankings per WP:RECORDCHARTS, we almost never list it on song articles, and definitely not in discographies. >> Lil-unique1 (talk) — 08:30, 4 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Well in this case Spotify is unreliable as a primary source first and foremost, however adequate secondary sources (to which WP:VENDOR does not apply) have been presented from which an article could be written and therefore anything else is just cleanup. SailingInABathTub ~~🛁~~ 21:35, 4 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

However, the secondary sources are still reporting on a vendor/retail. WP:VENDOR and WP:RECORDCHARTS both present the case that commerce or single retailers are not appropriate rankings. >> Lil-unique1 (talk) — 21:44, 4 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

WP:VENDOR does not apply as there are stable, independent sources confirming the ranking as being relevant. SailingInABathTub ~~🛁~~ 22:04, 4 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think you understand what I mean. WP:RECORDCHART and WP:VENDOR both explain that rankings based on a single vendor are not encyclopaedic or appropriate for use on wikipedia. Although secondary sources confirm the content, the content they are confirming is still a single vendor chart/ranking which we would not deem usable in song articles, album articles or discographies. Although being popular on spotify has received coverage in reliable sources, we still would list it as relevant. Vendor says, When only self-published by the vendor, i.e. no reliable independent source confirming the ranking as being relevant, the ranking would usually carry insufficient weight to be mentioned in any article. Just because sources say "X artist is the most followed on spotify" does not mean that the ranking carries sufficient weight. That's the point I'm trying to make. An artist's popularity on Spotify (Amazon, Tidal, etc.) is a component of their overall chart success. >> Lil-unique1 (talk) — 22:29, 4 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per WP:SINGLEVENDOR. Ovinus (talk) 23:12, 11 August 2022 (UTC) Weak keep – passes WP:NLIST. The following amount to significant coverage. They aren't the cream of the crop in source quality, but I believe they establish notability. Ovinus (talk) 00:05, 4 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
You missed the point per WP:VENDOR and the fact that spotify rankings are not used in discographies due to being single vendor rankings. >> Lil-unique1 (talk) — 08:31, 4 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
My understanding of WP:VENDOR—which I missed and is actually new to me, so I thank you for duly questioning me—is that it is intended for single-vendor rankings which involve subjective or secretive selection. The "bestseller lists at Amazon" which the policy cites involve much more secrecy; correct me if I'm wrong, but Amazon does not post how many books are sold. List of most-subscribed YouTube channels has been speedily kept on numerous occasions, despite being a single-vendor list/ranking. Most concerns about this list apply to that list and vice versa. Follower counts are simply numbers, and unless duplicity is suspected on Spotify's part, I don't see the issue. Ovinus (talk) 23:03, 4 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
You raise a great point, though I will say WP:OTHERSTUFF is never a great avenue to go down when it comes to AfD. A single vendor ranking like YouTube or spotify only serves as part of an artists' commercial or chart performance. Other vendors exist. If we go down the primary sources option its potentially always out of date, if we go down secondary sources we're supporting copyright vios and people will always update direct from spotify. I don't think its accurate or encyclopedic to report on a realtime ranking. If it was an annually published list fair enough but a realtime always changing list we would not report for song or album popularity per WP:RECORDCHARTS, where we specifically don't allow spotify or iTunes chart positions. I see this exactly the same. >> Lil-unique1 (talk) — 23:09, 4 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Agree OTHERSTUFFEXISTS is a suboptimal argument, especially because VENDOR was not cited at that AfD, as far as I can see. (I'm not sure about the history of VENDOR; do those AfDs predate the rule?) I do think the comparison does show that there is no strong, blanket precedent to delete this type of article. I'm not entirely convinced by the WP:RECORDCHARTS argument, as that seems to apply to individual articles, not broader articles like this one. It is also not clear whether that guideline's writers considered this case. If we go down the primary sources option its potentially always out of date—well, if we use only secondary sources it's guaranteed to be always out of date! :P I don't see what is wrong with using Spotify as a primary source here, unless, again, we suspect Spotify is being deceptive. I will think about it some more, though. Ovinus (talk) 23:20, 4 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, thought about it some more. Leaning toward delete now, not only because of reading between the lines of WP:SINGLENETWORK but also because of the verifiability concerns. If coverage of this list were overwhelming, as in the list of YouTube channels by sub count, I would say keep. But there aren't that many sources here. Ovinus (talk) 23:12, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- Oyedeji, Miracle (31 March 2022). "Top Artists on Spotify in 2022". inquirer.net.
- ~~"Ed Sheeran and Justin Bieber currently have the most monthly listeners of all artists on Spotify". Music Business Worldwide. 18 May 2022.~~ (listeners, not followers)
- "Eminem Stays In Top 5 Most Followed Artists On Spotify". 22 May 2020.
- Newman, Tom (28 July 2022). "The 10 biggest artists on Spotify in 2022". RouteNote Blog.
Weak keep, passed WP:NLIST, there's sources available, and while I may not be interested in it, it is notable to be one of the most followed on a streaming platform. Hey man im josh (talk) 00:12, 4 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Does not address WP:VENDOR which states commercial rankings are not appropriate. >> Lil-unique1 (talk) — 08:28, 4 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Question. How can this be kept accurate and updated? How often does this change? How is the information published? What if the availability of information changes? I fear a maintenance nightmare here. Jacona (talk) 12:13, 5 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Comments only. Firstly all charts have been manipulated in one method or another, whether sending a man to the record store to buy extra copies of a 45, or giving the store owner extra cash for false accounting, or done by bots. They've always been manipulated, not an argument for keeping one chart and not another. The updating of the article can be clarified by making the date of the chart more apparent (at the bottom of the list where it says 1st August 2022 is not prominent enough, but correct at certain date should satisfy that, WP is, at best, a reporting encyclopedia, not an up-to-date platform! I also assume that Spotify and other major music platforms submit stats to Billboard (etc) to compile their charts, so this is only a component part of Billboard charts. FWIW, I still can't make my mind up keep or delete. --Richhoncho (talk) 08:46, 6 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Per Nom and User:Hamedkazemi2's comments that the "list should be expanded and updated everyday." The list has 54 references and 50 are from Spotify. It doesn't matter if they are "deceptive" or not the content becomes outdated rather quickly and is the companies reporting venue. At least List of most-streamed artists on Spotify has secondary sourcing. At best we can get a historical snapshot (June 29, 2022) per Guinness World Records but what is the encyclopedia value? Fans of Lady Gaga might be interested that she is now listed in 50th place. -- Otr500 (talk) 10:16, 6 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Weak keep I think that this article is notable enough to be kept but the references should be changed. 𝙷𝚎𝚕𝚕𝚘𝚑𝚎𝚊𝚛𝚝 👋❤️ (𝚃𝚊𝚕𝚔🤔) 01:58, 10 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
What sources do you have in mind that prove notability/should be on the article instead? Can't say I've seen anything here so far that would cover that, especially for keeping the list up-to-date. QuietHere (talk) 03:15, 10 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure I understand your stance or your suggestion... Sergecross73 msg me 18:08, 10 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Arguments in favor of keeping have generally not addressed why WP:SINGLENETWORK does not apply.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Vanamonde (Talk) 02:36, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Keep as passing WP:NLIST; yes, we do cite Spotify for the data itself, but that doesn't change that the topic is notable. Elli (talk | contribs) 20:18, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
But by citing Spotify directly we are explicitly violating WP:SINGLEVENDOR which is the whole point of the nomination in the first place. Not to call you or anyone out specifically, but most of the keep votes here have been based on notability when that's not the violation the nom is concerned with. Surely that invalidates all of those votes, right? QuietHere (talk) 21:24, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

WP:SINGLEVENDOR is applied to record charts. The number of followers an artist has on a platform is not a record chart, and so it does not apply in this case. SailingInABathTub ~~🛁~~ 21:44, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I disagree - a chart is just a ranking based on sales or streaming. Its a measure of popularity for a single or album. List of most-followed artists on Spotify is effectively a chart of artists popularity, much like Billboard's Top Artists chart. The only difference is that it isn't officially published by an independent body. Even if it was, there would be no way we would allow it - regardless of the "independent" publisher because it was based on a Single Vendor. I don't see why the same logic doesnt apply here. Additionally vendor rankings are not suitable for use on wikipedia. Third issue - its potentially always out of date. >> Lil-unique1 (talk) — 22:29, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I disagree that WP:SINGLEVENDOR overrides WP:N in a case like this. Elli (talk | contribs) 04:24, 13 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Comment How long before this list is out of date, and who will commit to keeping it current? This is like creating a list for "Best sellers" with a list from one particular week. It's just too ethereal. Lamona (talk) 20:54, 13 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nom. Not an interesting stat, and too much for Wikipedia to replicate and verify. -- Mikeblas (talk) 23:10, 15 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Mikeblas just a reminder that WP:NOTINTERESTING is not a legitimate reason to vote in an AfD. I don't think that would invalidate your vote given the "per nom" and the latter part but just keep in mind that's something to avoid in future. QuietHere (talk) 07:15, 16 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete this list cruft per nom. Doczilla _{@SUPERHEROLOGIST} 20:32, 18 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete As per nomination. MrsSnoozyTurtle 08:46, 19 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. ✗plicit 02:42, 18 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thomas Huynh

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(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Article fails WP:GNG and WP:NAUTHOR. None of the references in the article are third-party reliable sources that have significant coverage of the subject. They are all either non-independent sources or are discussing the book (for example the Vanderbilt student paper article which can be found archived here). The Authors@Google video is of him speaking and is a primary source (and not a particularly choosy host either, as their playlist has over 1,600 videos of various authors speaking).

The World Peace Game source is down but can be found archived here and is literally just a copy-paste of the subject's website. As for the Bloomberg article it's dead and I can't find any archive of it, but the URL makes it clear it's from their blog which suggests that it may fall under WP:RSOPINION, but I have no way to know if it's a trivial mention or what the context is, or if the article ever even existed, but even if it did and was not an opinion piece it would be the single source showing notability, and articles require multiple reliable sources per WP:GNG. Notability's just not there.

I searched online and could find nothing else that would support notability; there were a few Google Books results that quoted the book he wrote, but none that addressed him directly. Be aware when searching for sources that he is not the only person with the name Thomas Huynh so there's a few sources about people who happen to have the same name but are not this article's subject. Aoidh (talk) 02:10, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Authors-related deletion discussions. Aoidh (talk) 02:10, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Georgia (U.S. state)-related deletion discussions. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 09:45, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete I can't find anything other than some editions of the book - book that he translated. Nothing in scholar. There is a mention of his book in Publisher's Weekly in an article about religious publishing houses. That's it. Lamona (talk) 21:05, 13 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep

1. What is remarkable and significant is the importance of the book (along with the annotations) and the website (Sonshi.com) in providing a different perspective on how Sun Tzu’s principles can be applied in business and to inform better social culture. The book has been through five editions and is routinely cited as one of the major translations (see for example the recent review of Michael Nylan’s translation [33]).

2. The introduction to an interview with Bob Morris is used to establish the Bloomberg Businessweek accolade. Interviews are notoriously unreliable but the information cited comes from the introduction to that interview.

3. There is now a current link to the Vanderbilt website regarding his book and his time an Executive MBA there. This is an article written by a member of Vanderbilt’s press staff for Vanderbilt Business, a publication of the Owen Graduate School of Management at Vanderbilt. It’s not an entirely neutral, or independent source but it’s unusual for the magazine to publish an article about one of its students.

4. There have been thousands of Google Talks since its inception in November, 2008, but it seems hard to argue that Google invites speakers (who don’t work at Google) who are not notable.

5. The Google Talk cite also provides further evidence of how Huynh “teaches Sun Tzu's principles in business through Sonshi.com and as an conference speaker.” Novus Intellectus (talk) 16:27, 15 August 2022 (UTC) — Novus Intellectus (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]

Novus Intellectus - the problem is sources, and I suggest looking at WP:N to understand what is required to support an article. Things like author bios (usually provided by the author), blog posts, and the author's own site do not support notability. You need reliable, third-party, independent sources. Lamona (talk) 15:16, 15 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Lamona, I'm grateful for your help. You probably noticed from the revision history that I tried to work on these issues but with little success. Novus Intellectus (talk) 16:24, 15 August 2022 (UTC)— Novus Intellectus (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]

If your argument is that his translation is important, then that's an argument for the notability of the book, not the author, as notability is not inherited. However there's not even notability for the book itself as far as I can tell but that's a whole different discussion. As for Talks at Google, notability is not their determining factor in who to bring in for a talk, and is not what I am trying to argue. The point about the Talks at Google source is that it is a primary source, as all of the content comes directly from the author. As the author is obviously not independent of himself, it is not an independent source. Non-independent sources do not contribute to the notability of the subject, per WP:GNG. - Aoidh (talk) 20:56, 15 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Novus Intellectus I believe i have fixed much of link issues to third-party sources, one being a published book. — Preceding unsigned comment added by ExchangeFORD (talk • contribs) 19:39, 15 August 2022 (UTC) — ExchangeFORD (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]

You did add a lot of blogs and extremely trivial mentions, and the book you added is an example of a trivial mention (and what is being discussed in that book is Huynh's translation, not Huynh himself, aside from the initial "thanks for letting me use your work in my own" comment). None of these are significant coverage in third-party reliable sources as required by WP:GNG, as they are either not reliable (such as the blogs), or trivial. This article's subject simply doesn't have the coverage in reliable sources to warrant an article on Wikipedia, and your changes do not address this. - Aoidh (talk) 20:56, 15 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The "World Peace" book did more than be gracious about the permission but on page 255: "I thank Thomas Huynh, founder of Sonshi.com, the Web's leading and most respected resource for Sun Tzu's Art of War" (https://www.google.com/books/edition/World_Peace_and_Other_4th_Grade_Achievem/bVxN2v1u1yQC?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=John+hunter+world+peace+game+thomas+huynh&pg=PA255&printsec=frontcover). The other source was from another published book "The Art of War for Small Business" that referenced Huynh's book eleven (11) times. They both seem to have high regard for Huynh and his work. Not "trivial" mentions as you contend. ExchangeFORD (talk) 23:00, 15 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

What you just quoted is a trivial mention, and not only that but is just a word-for-word copy of the author's website itself (go to "About the authors" and you'll see the same exact phrasing). There is nothing you could take from that to write into an article; it is trivial. As for the other book it does mention Huynh's book several times but as you said, it goes into (some) detail about Huynh's book, not about Huynh himself (though a lot of those references appear to be citations, not discussions of Huynh's book). This article is about Huynh, so we need significant coverage of Huynh. That's why the sources you added don't support notability for the subject. - Aoidh (talk) 08:19, 16 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Did you intend to include a promotional page for a website builder in those sources? –Skywatcher68 (talk) 20:53, 15 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Delete I see no evidence that this person has received significant coverage in reliable, independent sources, and no evidence that he meets WP:AUTHOR. Cullen328 (talk) 17:51, 16 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: Does not appear to meet WP:NAUTHOR. Gusfriend (talk) 22:47, 16 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Yeah I'm not seeing coverage that passes WP:GNG. -- BriefEdits (talk) 19:56, 17 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. ✗plicit 02:12, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Psycle

AfDs for this article:

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Appears to not be a notable application, the sourcing appears to be entirely limited to a few primary sources, and a couple of trade publications which I cannot access. A search brought up nothing that would contribute to a GNG pass. Devonian Wombat (talk) 02:12, 28 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Music and Internet. Devonian Wombat (talk) 02:12, 28 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 00:17, 4 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - Found one passing mention in a Google Books search. No reliable sources elsewhere. Most incoming wiki links are from lists without indication of notability. ~Kvng (talk) 21:37, 4 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗plicit 00:53, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - insufficient coverage found to demonstrate notability. Also, lack of sources mean most of the article is without proper references to verify its contents. Lack of sources mean these issues cannot be addressed. MaxnaCarta (talk) 01:36, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. There's clear consensus here that this topic isn't currently notable; if someone wishes to actively work on it in draftspace they may request draftification, but draftifying isn't appropriate if we're just waiting for the topic to maybe become notable. Vanamonde (Talk) 11:41, 18 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Commanders–Ravens rivalry

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

It's tough to even really call it a rivalry at this point. This "rivalry" is just based on geography and, even then, sports rivalries are not presumed notable. There have been 7 regular season meetings since 1997, the teams play in different conferences, and only meet every 4 years. They have never met in the playoffs. 7 games in 25 years with no meetings in the playoff is not a notable rivalry and should not have its own article. Hey man im josh (talk) 00:06, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sports and American football. Hey man im josh (talk) 00:06, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I don't know. There's a lot of coverage on Ravens-Redskins/Football Team/Commanders, but much of it is about how its not a rivalry. So here's what I've found on Ravens-Redskins/Football Team/Commanders: Washington Redskins-Baltimore Ravens Battle of the Beltway from Bleacher Report; A Redskins-Ravens rivalry? That's really for the birds from The Baltimore Sun; Ravens and Redskins set to renew the rivalry that isn't from The Baltimore Sun; Redskins-Ravens have same state of mind: No rivalry here from USA Today; Ravens, Redskins to renew rivalry that never was from The Star Democrat; Ravens-Redskins Rivalry from The Baltimore Sun; Kids start early in Ravens-Redskins rivalry from The Baltimore Sun; Ravens-Redskins a big game, but rivalry is strictly for the fans from Russell Street Report; Redskins, Ravens Indifferent to So-Called Rivalry from NBC; In Laurel, locals have mixed view of Ravens-Redskins rivalry from FOX; Redskins, Ravens agree: No rivalry here from The Cincinnati Enquirer; Rivalry? Redskins, Ravens don't see it from The Delaware News Journal; Redskins-Ravens: More than backyard rivalry from The Vincennes Sun-Commercial; 5 things you didn't know about WFT-Ravens rivalry from NBC; Washington and Baltimore's rivalry only exists off the football field from NBC; and Washington Football Team returns home for Battle of the Beltway from WTKR. BeanieFan11 (talk) 00:33, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The plentiful coverage from local media sources (WTKR in Hampton Roads, Baltimore Sun, and other media outlets) should be enough to garner support beyond the general notability guideline when looking past opinionated writing.

It also looks like both teams competed in a basketball tournament at the University of Maryland not too long ago. NFL Fan Pass: Battle of the Beltway from Commanders.com Vataxevader (talk) 14:50, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
delete I live in the area and have heard nothing of this, unlike the age-old Washington-Dallas grudgefest. It's really impossible to defend this given all the press devoted to denying it exists. Mangoe (talk) 03:15, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Wait. It is fair to say that there are few stances that make the matchup a true "rivalry" to consider. Despite my efforts to create the article, it can be expanded to cover games where playoff implications were on the line (2008, 2012). I will try to expand the history section for it tomorrow. I appreciate the input. Vataxevader (talk) 04:08, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Those were both week 13 games. I understand that the Ravens would have missed the 2008-09 playoffs had they lost that game, but you could say that about any of their wins that season (they went 11-5 and so did the Patriots, who finished as the 7th seed). It's different when it's the final game of the season, but they had another 3 games after that. Washington still misses the playoffs.

As for the 2012-13 playoffs, both teams would have still made the playoffs, but the seeding would have changed. The Ravens would drop from 4th seed to 6th seed and Washington would shave had a tiebreaker with the Packers for third seed.

I think it's WP:TOOSOON, as Beanie's sources largely point to this matchup not being considered a rivalry. Hey man im josh (talk) 11:53, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The deletion request for this article has nothing to do with a lack of content. It has to do with the article failing to meet the general notability guideline. Brad Hat (talk) 13:41, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Playoff implications would take role in late-season games when the "playoff picture" begins to take shape. For their 2012 season, the Redskins won 7 straight games (including Ravens in OT) to just win the division (after beating the Cowboys on SNF Week 17). You could say both teams were "In the hunt" for their contested playoff pictures in the NFC and AFC. Vataxevader (talk) 14:36, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep and Wait per Vataxevader. Hansen Sebastian^Talk 04:47, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
~~Delete~~ fails WP:GNG and WP:NRIVALRY. Of the lengthy list of references listed by User:BeanieFan11, most argue that there is not a rivalry between the two teams. The few that suggest a rivalry only use the term sparingly, but there is a lack of WP:SIGCOV describing the teams as "rivals" in more than a passing, WP:ROUTINE, mention that could be used for any set of two teams. It is difficult for teams from opposite conferences to establish a rivalry since they play infrequently which is why generally only rivalries among teams who have played several notable games (Giants-Patriots, Cowboys-Steelers) or former division rivals (Eagles-Steelers, Broncos-Seahawks) have the coverage required to pass GNG. Brad Hat (talk) 13:41, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Changed to speedy delete per G7 (author requests deletion). Absent a speedy, I maintain my “regular delete” rationale above Brad Hat (talk) 21:37, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Also should be noted that I oppose draftifying. Its not a matter of WP:TOOSOON. The teams have been in the same metro-area for almost 30 years and the lack of WP:SIGCOV shows that no rivalry exists and there is nothing to suggest this will change. It needs to be a straight-up delete. Brad Hat (talk) 19:15, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - no news sources which establish notability for "Beltway Bowl". "Battle of the Beltway" is used in other contexts (Texas HS football, baseball, etc), but I do not see sources establishing notability for the Ravens and Commanders. Namely, I do not see any article which discusses the topic in depth. Short history, not many meetings, no especially notable games. We should be careful about assigning notability arbitrarily to sports rivalries, and reserve it only for especially notable situations. The creator did a good job with the article, but I don't see any reference to notable matchups, just a list of statistics. It's not enough. ‡ El cid, el campeador ^talk 17:30, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Add - will be happy to change my vote if more sources and content are found/created, as promised above. Further, if the ultimate result is delete, no prejudice against draftifying it. ‡ El cid, el campeador ^talk 17:32, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Per creator: Draft After conducting my own research, I agree that the article does not reach notability guidelines. The only evidence supporting the article are past games with playoff implications for both teams. I am requesting the article to become a draft if the rivalry touches ground in the future (i.e. Super Bowl matchup, owner/fan dispute, etc). Vataxevader (talk) 18:55, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Hey @Vataxevader, I just wanted to mention that drafts that go without an edit for 6 months are eligible for deletion under the WP:G13 criteria. If you plan on keeping it for a while you may be better off having the page moved to your user space without an AfC submission template, as pages within the user page that contain an AfC template are also eligible for deletion under G13. Hey man im josh (talk) 19:02, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Got it. Commence with deleting. Vataxevader (talk) 19:14, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Just to be clear, I don't have the ability to do so and we may need to let this AfD playout unless a passing admin happens to decide to wrap this up. I do see that you've copied the content to your sandbox just in case though, so that's good. Hey man im josh (talk) 19:33, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Delete- I had no clue this existed and this is not really a rivalry, it's more of a geographic location match up between two teams that rarely face each other in the regular season. Sportsfangnome (talk) 23:17, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

[:0-1] Levin, Jordan (2002-01-10). "Orientalia celebrates the exotic". The Miami Herald. p. 300. Retrieved 2022-08-12.

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