Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents

Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents
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Co-editor apparently banning me from pages

See /Smatprt. A topic ban from the topic of William Shakespeare has been proposed and has considerable support, and a mutual editing restriction on all parties is also under consideration.

Moved to subpage as it's rather big. --TS 22:31, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

Datestamp of this comment is faked in an attempt to delay archiving of this pointer. --TS 22:31, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

One of the two editors (I am both the plaintiff and, in the thread, subsequently indicted)for whom a topic ban has been proposed, User:Smatprt, has noted on the page that he is experiencing problems with his computer, and will be travelling until the 18th, and thus cannot respond to the charges or issues raised concerning his editing behaviour. I suggest the page here retain this notice until at least that date.Nishidani (talk) 11:38, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

I've decided to cut short this ridiculously long discussion by noting the administrative consensus for a topic ban on User:Smatprt from all articles related to William Shakespeare, broadly construed. Admins dissenting please note here before the end of the month or I'll just cut the link to the subpage and formally notify Smatprt of the topic ban. --TS 23:36, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

User:Heymid, User:AIK IF 2010

Heymid (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log)

AIK IF 2010 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log)

Five days ago I blocked Heymid for seven days: the block should have less that 48 hours to run. However, just now Favonian (talk) asked me if Heymid was socking. It sure looked that way to me, and Favonian has indef-ed AIK IF 2000 as a sock-puppet of Heymid.

What is to be done with Heymid? I don't trust myself with resetting Heymid's block - I had felt Heymid was making progress, and I feel really let down. So... throwing it open to the community.

I'll let all parties know straight after posting this. TFOWR 22:39, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

I have followed this sad case from the sideline. I'm afraid we must conclude that Heymid just doesn't get it and an indef block is called for. Favonian (talk) 22:47, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

At least, even by sock standards, he isn't very smart. He might as well have called his sock "Heymid#2"... HalfShadow 22:54, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

*sigh* Sorry to say it, but I concur with Favonian. —DoRD (talk) 22:59, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

I've been watching this drama for a few months, and I must sadly agree with Favonian. Access Denied ^{[FATAL ERROR]} 23:00, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

You're certain enough it is him, right? I've seen a few banned users pretend to be socks of other users in order to get them in further trouble. HalfShadow 23:03, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

(edit conflict × 2) WikiChecker seems down right now, but I have to say that the time this occurred is starting to trouble me: it's just barely consistent with what I know of Heymid's timezone (UTC+2) and edit habits. Is it worth getting a checkuser to confirm before we make a huge mistake? TFOWR 23:08, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

I'm just saying, I've personally seen false-socking done at least three times. It may or may not be worth the effort, but it can't hurt to check. HalfShadow 23:14, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

We have 48 hours before the change to make an indef makes any difference, so I don't see any cause to undo my block yet.—Kww(talk) 23:18, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

(edit conflict)Better safe than sorry, so yes: let's request a CU. Speaking of timezones, I'm in the same one as Heymid. Goodnight! Favonian (talk) 23:16, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

I'm sure it's noted that the sock was named after Heymid's 7th most edited article, AIK IF. Not a good way to not get caught... Doc talk 23:20, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

Indefed. If he protests and someone wants to run a checkuser, that's fine by me. Heat to light ratio with this editor has never been good, and I don't see any loss in losing him.—Kww(talk) 23:05, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

• I think an indef block is too far, yes he did the most obvious sock violation I ever seen, but I think one last chance would be good. If he violates his terms, he could just be reblocked indef. I could tutor him. Thanks Secret ^account 23:21, 18 October 2010 (UTC)
  • "Indefinite"<>"infinite". If you can come to some form of reasonable mentorship/tutoring agreement with him, I wouldn't object.—Kww(talk) 23:36, 18 October 2010 (UTC)
• Checkuser requested. TFOWR 23:23, 18 October 2010 (UTC)
  • Checkuser completed. TFOWR 23:41, 18 October 2010 (UTC)
• I wouldn't be surprised if this is the false flag sockmaster, so I would definitely suggest a CU take a look. –xeno^talk 23:24, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

CU says it is likely that it is Heymid. The thing with Heymid is that he causes problems without even trying and shows a distinct lack of clue, so this is hardly a shock. Beeblebrox (talk) 23:56, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

I never would've figured they were savvy enough to use proxies, so I'm still not entirely convinced. Anyhow, I've allowed the talk page access since there has been a length and rationale change on his block. –xeno^talk 00:00, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

Still, you have to admit, it looked too obvious. Generally a socker isn't that...incompetent. HalfShadow 00:48, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

Actually, a surprising number are. People ask how I detect some of them so easily, and the only answer I can give is that they really don't seem to have a clue as to how to cover their tracks. The ones that do generally never get blocked.—Kww(talk) 01:34, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

Yes, it's quite often the case that (at least at first) the sock names are very easy to spot, e.g. User:Newcastleunitedfan at first socked with User:Newunited. Fram (talk) 07:34, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

Could we please show Heymid the door? Too much disruption for too long, no clue. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 01:45, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

A "from the sidelines" opinion, been watching Heymid for a while and his behaviour has basically gone like this: do something silly -> get told off -> sort of say sorry, but wording suggest he thinks he actually did ok -> promises to not do it again -> X days pass -> do it again. This has been repeated numerous times, with a little DIDNTHEARTHAT thrown in on top. I think this is a WP:COMPETENCE failure. I mean, he's a nice enough guy (I suspect he is relatively young, which accounts for a lot of the interaction problems) but seems unable to understand the words "Heymid, just go edit articles for a few months". --Errant [tmorton166] ^(chat!) 07:18, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

• Note that Heymid has now left a slightly less than civil request on his talk page to close this thread and mark User:AIK IF 2010 as "impersonating" him instead of being his sockpuppet, though from what I see of this thread and the SPI, it seems that he's trying too late to cover his attempt at sockpuppetry rather than accepting that he shouldn't have done it. GiftigerWunsch [TALK] 14:38, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
  • I've struck part of my comment above since it seems the checkuser result changed from likely to possible after I left it, and there are some fairly legitimate concerns that this may be the "false flag" vandal. GiftigerWunsch [BODY DOUBLE] 16:36, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

Personally I'd be surprised if AIK IF 2010 (talk · contribs) was a sock of Heymid. I agree firstly with what xeno says above: I wouldn't have thought that Heymid would be savvy enough to make use of an open proxy. There also doesn't seem to be motivation for it, considering that at the point when AIK IF 2010 was registered Heymid could just have created a new account via his own IP address. Using an open proxy is standard procedure for someone who wishes to impersonate another user, since it makes any technical links ambiguous, and we therefore have to rely on the behavioral evidence. The behavioral evidence in this particular case, is, frankly, trying way too hard. Kww mentions above that the socks that we catch are often obvious, which is true, but this is off the scale. Heymid even pointed out himself that the account was quacking much too loudly to be a natural duck; he's clearly aware how obvious the link appears, why would he have made it that obvious in the first place?
To speak plainly, I imagine that there are plenty of people who would get a kick out of getting Heymid indefinitely blocked by impersonating him as a sock.
I am aware that there has been a pattern of disruption from Heymid in the past, and if I'm honest I've often found myself muttering in favour of a block. However, although I'm 100% aware that there are users who find the accusation of sock-puppetry credible, I'm worried that the suspicion of socking is being used as a cover reason for getting rid of a user who many find annoying, this seems to be realized in some of the comments above.
Kind regards, Spitfire^Tally-ho! 23:17, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

I agree with this. While I do not think an indefinite block is unwarranted ( I have previously called for one), it should not come as a result of this incident. The suspected sock was trying way too hard. decltype (talk) 00:10, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

Agree with Spitfire. Since there's only less than a day left on the original block, IMO we should simply unblock him now. T. Canens (talk) 04:30, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

Pointing out that the CU was, from a technical perspective, inconclusive. There is no technical evidence tying those two accounts together. Adding behavior, the apparently blatant socking through an open proxy, either Heymid is playing a game with us or someone else is by trying to get him into trouble. In this particular case I find the latter much more probable. Amalthea 08:30, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

If this were Heymid, we have to believe that (a) Heymid is daft enough to do this, and (b) smart enough to use proxies. I can't reconcile that. I noted above that the time this occurred seems a little off - throughout this Heymid has been in pretty regular contact with me via email (moaning about the block length, etc...) and I've also now had a chance to check Heymid's editing times. AIK IF 2010 was editing right at the extreme range of Heymid's editing times. I'm not comfortable leaving Heymid indef-ed for socking. If we want to discuss an indefinite block for competence, or whatever, let's do that. But we should sort this current block out and give Heymid the chance to participate. TFOWR 10:00, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

Based on comments above with regards to inconclusive checkuser findings, I've reduced the original block to 'time served' and Heymid (talk · contribs) is now unblocked. Heymid is reminded that he had run out of chances even before this incident; and should focus on improving the mainspace, and stay away from the meta locations as much as possible. –xeno^talk 13:03, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

@TFOWR I do think he is daft enough to do that. He said he had work he would have to do if he was blocked. Updating stats for his favourite team seems to be exactly the kind of thing he was talking about. As for smart enough to use proxies, that is extremely easy to do since there are hundreds of webpages out there that tell you how or even do it for you. It's definitely possible its not him. But its not as impossible as you make it sound. All past knowledge of him does point to it being him. -DJSasso (talk) 13:07, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

I also do not think he is unknowledgeable about what an open proxy is either (he has demonstrated the ability to learn/pickup information quickly). I don't disagree with the unblock, but I think rather than being unlikely the connection is simply inconclusive. Another question is who would want to impersonate Heymid. I mean, I know he has annoyed people here but no one seems to have hounded or followed him before this. With that said; a very last chance is always preferable. --Errant [tmorton166] ^(chat!) 13:11, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

There is a troll who impersonates users who are already in a bit of hot water, in an attempt to make things worse. Whether this was the case here or not - we don't know - but blocking this user indefinitely on purely circumstantial evidence leaves me uncomfortable. –xeno^talk 13:15, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

@Djsasso: oh, I'm damn certain he's daft enough to make that edit - my point was purely about proxies. I'll defer to your knowledge in that area, however. TFOWR 13:31, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

Further indication that the AIK IF 2010 was not Heymid: whenever Heymid (talk · contribs) updates Template:2010–11 Elitserien standings (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs), he updates the order of entries for relegation, etc. - AIK IF 2010 (talk · contribs) did not do this. –xeno^talk 13:34, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

I offered to mentor Heymid with a strict warning. I do hope he accepts. Secret ^account 01:36, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

Ok he accepted my mentoring. Secret ^account 17:17, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

"Likely" on the basis of a User Agent????

The magic eight ball returned a "likely" because they had similar useragents. I know a few things about user agents. In fact I've studied them rather intensely because I used to need to know what they meant. About half the time they are as generic as can be. I don't know what HeyMid and AIK's useragents look like, but unless there was something very distinctive (i.e. "FunWebProducts"; an old version of Windows; WOW toolbar) about them, I would be very hesitant to use that as the basis of my "likely" result. --*Kat* ^(meow?) 06:52, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

The result was reviewed and changed to possible; there's significant concern that this is the "false flag" vandal. I agree that finding it likely based on "similar" user agents is odd, as generally if they're not identical, they're probably different computers (otherwise it represents an intentional attempt to mask it, and it could have been done far better). The fact that a proxy was used also means that the checkuser results are probably going to be less valuable than the behavioural evidence. GiftigerWunsch [TALK] 07:00, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

Anytime you update FF, your useragent changes. Different browsers generate different user agents as well. UserAgents are flaky little critters.--*Kat* ^(meow?) 06:41, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

Indeed, but the point is unless it was a highly unusual user agent, it doesn't signify much. I'd think the chances are fairly good that the user and whoever may be looking to cause more trouble are both using a fairly recent version of firefox; it may be a little more significant if they're both using Opera 2.1, for example. Naturally this is the sort of information restricted to checkusers, and I'd guess that the re-evaluation from likely to possible was based on the similarity in user agents not being particularly persuasive. GiftigerWunsch [TALK] 12:28, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

Let me intercede that I may have made a judgment error there, in which Amalthea should have clarified in the above thread. The problem with open proxies is that you will never get a confirmation on location as they are all over the place. When I made the initial check, I did not place into account Heymid's behavior or the likelihood that he would have used a proxy (for which I am told is very low). –MuZemike 12:34, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

It depends on the information stored. My useragent's fingerprint (Firefox) is unique among several hundred thousand tested at EFF. Rich Farmbrough, 18:43, 22 October 2010 (UTC).

Rich, that is true... but I doubt WP stores all the extra information that is used to make it unique (i.e. the extra stuff). When they say "user agent" they really just mean the short user agent string identifying the browser, which is quite common to many computers, as provided by PHP's $_SERVER array. (BTW, since his unblock and my new knowledge of this impersonator I feel it is clear now that AK was not a sock of Heymid) --Errant [tmorton166] ^(chat!) 18:47, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

(edit conflict) panopticlick.eff.org? They're up to 1,230,357 now, apparently. And my useragent is also unique - I don't know whether I should be concerned that I'm leaking identifying data to t'intarwebs, or reassured that impersonating me is difficult... TFOWR 18:53, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

Remove Inka 888 from twinkleBlacklist?

Resolved

 – Removed from blacklist. /ƒETCHCOMMS/ 03:09, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

A while back Inka 888 was added to the twinkle blacklist for misuse and a high level of incompetence. Since then Inka has made huge progress with the help of mentor Intelati (talk · contribs) and a few talk page stalkers, myself included. So I'm proposing that Inka be removed from the blacklist. Let's see what everyone thinks. Access Denied ^{[FATAL ERROR]} 04:11, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

I would Say Inka has made incredible progress, and has just a short mentoring term left. As his mentor I would say let him get acquainted with Huggle and rollback for one week, then on 10/25/2010 UTC time, remove his name from the blacklist. This is to alliviate any overload of "New things".--Talktome^(Intelati) 04:19, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

I have taken a look at his edits since he started using Huggle on the 17th and it seems he has been doing a good job, no mistakes. I do believe, though, that Inka already has TWINKLE with this edit, which could possibly be a go around of the blacklist or him using Friendly (since it is being merged with TWINKLE). In the last three days, this is the only instance of TWINKLE use, so I am guessing (and hoping) that it is Friendly use.

Otherwise, I do believe the wait to get "acquainted" with Huggle and rollback should wait a month. I also believe that mentorship should not end at a specified time, but should be until Intelati feels Inka is ready. When I was under mentorship, it didn't end for almost 6 months. We don't want Inka slipping back into old habits. I also feel that once mentorship does end, Intelati and others should check in periodically to see how Inka is doing, check for mistakes, problems, make comments, even give barnstars if needed. My mentor still does that with me from time to time, but not as often as before. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 05:22, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

For your pondering: When I read this, I checked the blacklist. A large number of the people there are no longer active at all. Some have not edited for over a year, others seem to have retired. We might want to reorder the list so that the active users show up first, as the line goes on for a while. That or cull the list of the inactive users. Either way it was very hard to read down the full list. Then again my screen isn't that large, but still. Sven Manguard _Talk 06:46, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

Per above, the full list. I suggest in the future that new additions are added at the beginning, rather than the end, of the list, at the very least.

Blacklisted users

"Dilip rajeev", active "Jackmantas", last seen Aug 08 "Flaming Grunt", last seen May 09 "Catterick", indef blocked Aug 09 "44 sweet", last seen Aug 09 "Sarangsaras", indef blocked Sept 09 "WebHamster", indef blocked Nov 09 "Radiopathy", active "Nezzadar", last seen Dec 09 "Darrenhusted", active "Notpietru", last seen Mar 10 "Arthur Rubin", active "Wuhwuzdat", active "MikeWazowski", active "Lefty101", last seen May 10 "Bender176", indef blocked Jun 10 "Tej smiles", possibly active "Bigvernie", possibly active "TK-CP", active "NovaSkola", active "Inka 888", subject of this ANI "Polaron", active "SluggoOne" possibly active

Sven Manguard _Talk 07:03, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

Aw shucks Sven, now you have to advise every single editor in that list that you have mentioned them at ANI ... (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 20:31, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

I doubt it's necessary. We aren't discussing them, only the list they are on. If we go into their individual merits, then it will become necessary to tell them. Sven Manguard _Talk 00:14, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

Back on point -

Unless memory fails me, I believe I'm the admin who implemented putting Inka 888 on the blacklist; I am perfectly fine with taking them off if those who have been mentoring and advising feel that they're being helpful now. We could always return them to it if there turns out to be a problem, and I don't see any reason to believe Inka is operating in bad faith here. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 22:47, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

I'll stick my head out and agree with GWH. I'd be for allowing Inka 888 a second chance on Twinkle. I mean, the worst-case scenario is that we blacklist him again. Other thoughts? –MuZemike 19:14, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

Disruptive edits and usage of abusive language by YellowMonkey

First, User:YellowMonkey removes content from an article and cleverly disguises it in the edit summary. He then reverts my attempts to improve a related article without giving any explanation. On being told to explain his reverts and removal of content, he ends up calling me a "retarded nationalist". Rest is for administrators to conclude and decide. --King Zebu (talk) 06:55, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

Nothing was hidden or disguised in that edit summary. The second diff was rightly reverted; you wrote in an unsupported opinion stating that things had 'gone smoothly.' The actual epithet he used is unacceptable, period. But so are your edits, which are indistinguishable from edits with a pro-nationalistic bias. YellowMonkey is indeed completely correct that at every sporting event worldwide if someone is giving a speech at the closing they will praise it as some variant of "Perfect, the best event ever." It's practically in the contract that they must do so, and of about as much use as any politician's statements in such circumstances are. It would be a really good idea for people to be more careful about their posts on ANI reflecting reality. → ROUX ₪ 07:07, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

(EC) I'm not an admin but did you show the wrong diff? The first diff doesn't show any removal of content but moving it around, which is reflected in the edit summary. While this isn't the place to mediate content disputes, I note that the article previously including several sentences in the WP:LEDE on the closing ceremony but none in the article, which is rather bad considering the lede is supposed to be a summary of the article. I haven't looked in to the other diffs since I think we need to clarify where this removal of content occured first your first diff doesn't show any. Nil Einne (talk) 07:08, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

To the OP: It should be noted that he didn't call you a "retarded nationalist", he called the speaker of the quote he removed a "retarded nationalist". Admitedly, not the best thing to call anyone, but the comment does not appear directed at you, rather at the person who called the games "truly exceptional". --Jayron32 07:12, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

I dunno, looked to me like it was directed at Zebu. Has YellowMonkey been notified?→ ROUX ₪ 07:18, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

He hadn't, so I did so here. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 07:24, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

He was actually. Look at the section above yours.Fainites ^barleyscribs 08:18, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

Sorry about that, I just skimmed for words like "ANI" as a header before placing the notice. My goof. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 08:36, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

There was no difference between the two, merely placement (see here; I copied the two passages into a sandbox to compare). This is why I said that users should be more careful to ensure that postings to ANI be reflective of reality, and not for example editorialize on diffs when simply looking at the diff proves the editorializing is wrong. → ROUX ₪ 07:18, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

There is some confusion here, I guess. Just to clarify -- in this edit, YellowMonkey removed the quote by the president of the CGF. He didn't specifically mention the removal of the quotation and hence the "cleverly disguised" remark. Secondly, in this revert, YellowMonkey reverted my attempts to reorganize the article, to specifically state that certain information were allegations and should not be stated as facts, and to remove certain content which was not supported by the given citations. I gave detailed explanation for my edits in the edit summaries. And that "retarded nationalist" remark was obviously directed at me. --King Zebu (talk) 07:44, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

If you mean the "truly exceptional" quote, it's not removed in that diff. It's down at the bottom. Also - accusing someone of "cleverly disguising" content removal is very uncivil. I'm not saying it shouldn't be done if it's a true bill, but if it turns out to be an error, then a retraction and apology is due. More to the point, it puts the "retarded nationalist" comment in context, if indeed it was directed at Zebu.Fainites ^barleyscribs 08:18, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

Indeed I think both me and Roux have compared the moved contents and found that they are the same. Roux's idea is a good one (I just compared the text side by side initially) and you can see the results here [1] showing that nothing is different between the contents moved around, not even one character. I copied the text that was moved around between reversions to the sandbox, the reason for the version 1 and version 2 is so the software will accept the different versions. (I see Roux also provided a link, sorry missed that.) Nil Einne (talk) 08:25, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

Re "retarded nationalist", at first read through I thought it meant Zebu. Next time I thought it meant Fennell (author of the quote). Can YellowMonkey please clarify this?Fainites ^barleyscribs 08:31, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

Note that even if it was referring to the author of the quote, it's still inappropriate per BLP. (It's also a rather strange comment since I'm not sure how or why the Jamaican head of the CGF is a retarded nationalist for calling the Delhi CG truly exceptional, something which YM him or herself acknowledges is somewhat expected of them.) Nil Einne (talk) 08:50, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

The difference is that if it was directed at the editor, it's a pretty bad violation of WP:NPA and might be actionable. If it's merely about the author of the original quote, it's contra-WP:BLP and admonishment will be different. (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 09:26, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

Right at the top of this page under the navigational box, it says in bold: "Before posting a grievance about a user here, please discuss the issue with them on their user talk page." Did you attempt to do so, King Zebu? This seems like unnecessary drama which could've been settled on his talk page, since as shown above there hasn't been any content actually removed. The issue here is the alleged BLP violation or personal attack. WP:Dispute resolution notes that ANI is not the first port of call. Strange Passerby (talk • c • status) 09:47, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

I really don't see any issue with YellowMonkey's edits. The content removal charge doesn't appear to hold up. In the "reverts my attempts to improve" case, King Zebu appears to have replaced well sourced facts with numerous "alleged" qualifiers (amazing that someone could chuck a washing machine out of a window!), which is bold but then, once reverted, should go through a consensus seeking process on the article talk page. I suppose YM should explain 'retarded nationalist', or offer an apology if KZ wants one. That is unkind, but I don't see it as a grievous insult. except when hurled at an actual nationalist who happens to be retarded. --RegentsPark (talk) 13:47, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

Amazing an administrator - editor allegedly calls an editor or a subject a retard nationalist and we see a rush to come to his defence. Also the administrator-editor has received a notice which he deletes but does not comment or answer issues directly. Why? Yogesh Khandke (talk) 14:05, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

RegentsPark -- no matter how well placed a source is, an allegation is an allegation. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia and therefore the concerned article should not state these allegations as facts. --King Zebu (talk) 16:45, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

My point is that, when reverted, you should bring it up on the talk page and see if you can get consensus for those edits. I'm not eager to comment on whether the alleged qualifiers should be included in the article or not, this is not the forum for that, but, generally, when section headings include the word "Allegations" or "Alleged", I see that as a strong indication that either the section shouldn't be there in the first place or there is an attempt to water down the material. I suggest recourse to the talk page. IMO, I'd also ignore the retarded nationalist comment, unkind though it is, because, in isolation, it is not strong enough to be actionable. --RegentsPark (talk) 18:44, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

Firstly, going through this edit again, I do realize that YM didn't actually remove the quotation but merely placed it elsewhere. And yes, perhaps my "cleverly disguised" comment was a bit uncivil but that in no way justifies the personal attack. Secondly, YM continues to revert my edits to the article blatantly without giving any explanation. Whether it be removal of inaccurate information or adding "alleged qualifiers" -- Gone! without any explanation. Thirdly, someone mentioned here that I should have raised the issue on YM's talkpage first before coming here. Two points come to mind -- A) Based on my previous experience, I know that any attempt to start a discussion with him would have gone in vain. B) The fact that he has not participated in this discussion yet underscores the validity of point A. Going through all the dispute resolution noticeboards, I guess Wikipedia:Wikiquette alerts would be a more suitable noticeboard than this one (pardon me but this only the second time I have been involved in a major dispute and I'm not very well aware of the norms here). Anyways, seeing so many here rushing to defend YM even after he goes around showering insults on others is quite disappointing to say the least. The only thing I can take from here is this -- write a couple of featured articles, become an administrator and then you are free to -- A) Revert edits by other Wikipedians without providing any justification and B) Insult the minnows like me. --King Zebu (talk) 16:20, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

Some of these people who are going after admins as a group the past twenty four hours ought to submit an RfA. Go on. It isn't hard. Just step down from the peanut gallery and put your record in front of the community. What we ought to have is a template, just an invitation to have an RfA. To be handed out when they lump all admins together when they complain about the claimed actions of a few. Jeez.--Wehwalt (talk) 22:35, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

Apologies if I "lumped all administrators together" but the sad part is when some of the administrators chose to ignore the abusive language by those from their kindred while they are rather quick to take action against non-administrators. And frankly, raising an RfA against an administrator is also pretty much pointless because some of you will end up telling me to ignore the nationalist retard remark because it is not a "grievous insult". --King Zebu (talk) 04:05, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

Wehwalt meant that editors making blanket complaints about the admin corps should be met with a suggestion to undergo a Request for adminship themselves, not to issue a Request for comment on a particular admin. (At least that's how I understood it). ---Sluzzelin talk 04:10, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

Yellowmoney twice reverted inside 24 hours without even a mention or attempt to resolve the dispute on talk. Even if his revrts were right such incivility in what was in fact a desiguised edit summary as "nationalist editors" or whatever is certainly unnaceptable.

Im an uninvolved editor in this dispute, and have restored the changes pending attempts to discuss at Talk:Concerns and controversies over the 2010 Commonwealth Games#reverts/edit war.Lihaas (talk) 10:32, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

I can vouch for Zebu on one point: Lack of communication. I have been trying to discuss my block which was for 2 weeks with Yellowmonkey for the past three weeks, but there has been no communication. Here too Yellowmonkey is absent. If it is not kosher to make common-cause like this, it is just because I am not aware of the rules. Another editor here made remarks that complaints should be made elsewhere against the said administrator, what for I wonder? So that the said administrator remains silent and others rush to defend him and try to run a steamroller over the complainant? There was a reference about some kind of group. The only group that Zebu and this editor belongs to is The brotherhood of those who have been run-over by Yellowmonkey. This editor has reminded those here that Yellowmonkey is an administrator who handed a two week block to an editor (see details here) User_talk:YellowMonkey#Blocked_editor_humbly_requests_explanations for pov, troll and taunting, and then Yellowmonkey allegedly abuses an editor (or the subject). So there is one set of rules for himself (Yellowmonkey) and another for others. Yogesh Khandke (talk) 18:54, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

This there is room to discuss and rollback of admin privilege for abusing his authority. Where do we start this discussion?Lihaas (talk) 05:28, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

There has been no abuse of admin rights here - YellowMonkey didn't inappropriately use the block or protection buttons. This is a content dispute - please follow appropriate dispute resolutions procedures; ANI isn't one of them. Karanacs (talk) 15:01, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

Calling another editor a "retarded nationalist" in an edit summary is not on. I don't care how many featured articles someone has written. There should be no repeats. --JN466 02:29, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

Taking the "Roman" out of "Roman Catholic"

User talk:71.0.213.123 – who may also be User talk:150.199.97.75, User talk:71.145.180.157, User talk:71.145.170.188 – has been removing "Roman" from instances of "Roman Catholic". The editor has been shown that Wikipedia consensus is that such behavior is disruptive (here, here, here and here), and also that even the Archidiocese of New York [2] and the Vatican [3],[4], [5] use "Roman Catholic", and has been given two final warnings [6],[7] but continues to make these edits [8], [9]. Beyond My Ken (talk) 08:36, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

User has been notified. Beyond My Ken (talk) 08:39, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

I recall this behaviour as characteristic of a certain blocked user? S.G.^(GH) _ping! 08:48, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

Who? Fainites ^barleyscribs 08:54, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

The names in the AN/I threads I cited above were User:Vaquero100 and User:The Catholic Knight. Are they blocked? Beyond My Ken (talk) 08:56, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

Neither is blocked. Vaquero100 hasn't edited since 2006, and TCK not since May 2010. Beyond My Ken (talk) 08:58, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

That's the one, the Catholic Knight. I thought they had been blocked. Could be them logged out I suppose, but then this particular 'beef' has quite a following. S.G.^(GH) _ping! 09:00, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

Anywho, the first IP has clearly continued in vandalistic behaviour beyond a final warning, despite having seen consensus and been rather patiently (I feel) reminded of it by Ken. The final warning was actually several edits ago. WP:AIV wouldn't have a problem with that one so I've blocked that IP for 24 hours for vandalism, I'm looking at the other two now. S.G.^(GH) _ping! 09:03, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

Ah yes, the other three are clearly the same person or group (identical edit summaries). One is blocked already for three months so the others were free to edit, one could argue for some sort of evasion but it's hard to pin down with IPs. S.G.^(GH) _ping! 09:09, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

Undoubtedly the same person, though. If the pattern holds, they'll stop editing with their current IP address and start editing with another, so there's really nothing else to do but keep an eye out on their favorite articles. Beyond My Ken (talk) 09:15, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

Looking over the contribs, it doesn't look very likely to me that the IPs and The Catholic Knight are the same person - there's almost no overlap in articles (which is surprising since the shared topic area is Catholicism) and they seem to have different styles. The IPs are clearly the same -- same style of edit summary, lots of overlapping articles. Beyond My Ken (talk) 09:27, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

Looking at the IP addresses, it seems doubtful that they're the same user.

• 71.0.213.123 is from Jefferson City, Missouri.
• 150.199.97.75 is from Columbia, Missouri.
• 71.145.180.157 is from Pflugerville, Texas.
• 71.145.170.188 is from Round Rock, Texas.

I'd guess there were at least two editors involved. — Fly by Night (talk) 11:03, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

Could those be regional networks? Missouri and Texas are not so far away. Beyond My Ken (talk) 16:52, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

Well, I don't know about Missouri AND Texas, nor the two Texas locations, but being originally from Missouri, I do know that Jeff City and Columbia are only like 20-30 minutes from each other by car, so, somebody in the middle might well be able to hit IP ranges from either. umrguy42 16:54, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

Whoever is behind those IPs, he/she is clearly being a dick, I'd recommend a range block. GoodDay (talk) 14:36, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

• It took me a few hours, but I think I found the master: Rev.JamesTBurtchaell,csc (talk · contribs). For a summary of typical edits and the IPs used, see User:Drmies/Roman Catholic?. Since I wasted the entire morning looking for this, I'd appreciate it if someone else would file an SPI--isn't that the appropriate thing to do here? I don't think I've ever started one before, and unfortunately I don't have the time to learn it right now. Beyond My Ken, I think you know how to do this, no? I'm sorry for leaving this to others, but I really need to get back to work. Thanks, Drmies (talk) 16:48, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

I'll take a look at the data - I may have time to file an SPI later today or tonight. Beyond My Ken (talk) 16:53, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

Jefferson City and Round Rock are, according to Google Maps, 730 miles, 12½ hours apart by car. — Fly by Night (talk) 17:28, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

How far they are by car is surely relevant, but important also is the distance the way a duck flies. Consider the contributions from the following IPs:

• 150.199.97.75 (talk · contribs)
• 71.145.180.157 (talk · contribs)
• 71.145.170.188 (talk · contribs)
• 71.0.213.123 (talk · contribs)
• 71.145.143.99 (talk · contribs)
• 76.22.103.246 (talk · contribs)
• 71.145.162.148 (talk · contribs)
• 71.145.145.196 (talk · contribs)
• 71.145.166.252 (talk · contribs)
• 71.200.152.165 (talk · contribs) (only a few edits of our type, but similar IP). Drmies (talk) 17:48, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

As someone who currently lives in Fulton, Missouri, on the third leg of a triangle formed by Columbia and Jeff City in Missouri I can tell you that at least one IP address of a computer that I use actually shows up as Cape Girardeau, Missouri which is well over 100 miles away. Why, how, and what goes on with IP addresses, and if this is an anomoly unique to this part of Missouri I dont know. Just wanted to pass on that just because someone has an IP address to a particular community does not mean they live anywhere near that community or have ever been to that city (I myself have never been to Cape G and couldnt even pronounce it correctly if I tried, I'm a transplanted NYer carpetbagger living in the middle of hillbilly central).Camelbinky (talk) 17:56, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

That's true everywhere. Most of the pRon sites I visit give my location anywhere from Montreal Quebec to Windsor Ontario, based on my IP at the time. Anyone who has tried that trip knows that even with good traffic that's an 8 hour drive. (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 19:35, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

SPI filed Beyond My Ken (talk) 19:06, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

Good call. Even if it's not sock puppetry, it has to be meat puppetry. — Fly by Night (talk) 23:51, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

Just for the sake of completeness, I'll mention that in this edit one of the IPs identifies himself by the name mentioned above. If that's the same Rev. James T. Burtchaell mentioned here, I think perhaps that information could be posted on the talk page of any IP he starts using. That oughta give him the message. (Not exactly a child molester, he only diddled around with college boys, but still he was their professor and all.) --Steven J. Anderson (talk) 03:35, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

If anything I just posted here goes too far, feel free to redact. I'm feeling a little queasy about it myself. --Steven J. Anderson (talk) 03:37, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

There's no way to know if the account with that name and the IP who signed that name, are the real-life person by that name. Could be a troll using that name, for instance, or someone trying to sully the name even more. In any case, it's irrelevant, because the actions are disruptive whoever is behind them. Beyond My Ken (talk) 04:48, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

Besides, the account name above is labelled "csc" or Congregatio a Sancta Cruce {"Congregation of the Holy Corss"), while the IP signed as "SJ" or "Society of Jesus". I don't think it's possible to be both a Jesuit and a member of the Holy Cross, since they're rival orders. Beyond My Ken (talk) 04:56, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

Why is this an issue, when our consensus terminology for the church is Catholic Church (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)?—Ryūlóng (竜龙) 03:50, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

I see that the article is at "Catholic Church" ("also known as the Roman Catholic Church" it says), but where is the consensus discussion located? Besides, if "Roman Catholic Church" is an acceptable alternative (and "Roman Catholic Church" redirects to "Catholic Church"), then the editor has no reason to remove "Roman" from "Roman Catholic Church" when it occurs, any more than unbroken redirects in wikilinks should be changed, especially when the grounds being cited are that "Roman Catholic" is improper and only Protestants use it. That's the kind of thing up with which we should not put. We're still talking disruption, regardless. Beyond My Ken (talk) 04:41, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

It formed sometime last year, apparently. I don't really feel like looking for it because I don't really care about the dispute. But having links to Roman Catholic Church over Catholic Church and edit warring over whether or not to use the redirect is really WP:LAME.—Ryūlóng (竜龙) 04:42, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

Exactly, which is why the IPs who are doing that are blocked. Beyond My Ken (talk) 04:43, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

Um, maybe that's because this consensus is a surprise to a lot of people. (Well, this decision is news to me.) I'm not about to demand we re-open that can of worms, but there are lots & lots of people who expect to see that institution referred to as the "Roman Catholic Church" & for understandable reasons will change "Catholic Church" back to "Roman Catholic Church". Lots more than insist on the other way -- at least based on the anecdotal evidence I've seen so far. Too bad we can't have some simple procedure for changing the style in articles -- such as asking if anyone minds on the article talk page first, & if no one objects then making the change. -- llywrch (talk) 05:27, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

All the Orthodox Christian religions are Catholic and the Roman Catholic church is also an Orthodox church. Orthodox and Catholic are interchangeable. To say that the Roman Catholic church is THE Catholic Church is like saying that everywhere that Buddhism appears we are going to just call it the religion. It may be obvious to Londoner or hillbilly in Iowa who you are referring to when using Catholic Church but the Kazakhstani on the border with Russia is going to think Eastern Orthodox. "When you hear hoof beats think horses, not zebras" only works if you dont live in Africa, if you live in Africa then its "When you hoof beats think zebras, not horses". We are an international encyclopedia with no POV bias towards certain Christian or Western ideology.Camelbinky (talk) 23:50, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

Some of the protestant Christian religions are "catholic", too: the Church of England "understands itself to be both Catholic and Reformed". I've no idea how far that extends within the Anglican Communion, but "The communion encompasses a wide spectrum of belief and practice including evangelical, liberal, and Catholic". TFOWR 23:59, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

Re-start

The SPI's been closed with a note that IPs making these edits shoudl be blocked as necessary, so I bring to admins' attention a new IP, User:75.192.141.33‎, taking the "Roman" out of "Roman Catholic". Beyond My Ken (talk) 00:46, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

Also, since these IPs are undoubtedly either sockpuppets or meatpuppets, blocks should be progressive across all the IPs, so that we don't get a series of new IPs, each of whom gets blocked for 24 hours for doing the same disruptive things.Beyond My Ken (talk) 00:51, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

If absolutely necessary, you could create a fairly easy edit filter on that; that might put a plug in it. –MuZemike 01:26, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

Sounds like a good idea, but beyond my capability, I'm afraid. Beyond My Ken (talk) 04:03, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

Admin tools misuse by Rich Farmbrough

Unresolved

Entire thread has been moved to Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents/Rich Farmbrough/October 2010 to centralize discussion and to save space on the ANI page. Please do not timestamp this until this has reached the top of the page. –MuZemike

LegitimateAndEvenCompelling pushing POV/COI

Judith Reisman has been a highly contentious BLP page for a while. It came to my attention when the apparent subject vehemently objected to it's content [10]. In short, her work is about discrediting the work of Alfred Kinsey. I don't really have an opinion on any of this and came into this mess as an uninvolved admin who informed the editor how to contact the foundation, etc. I semi-protected the article and added it to my watchlist.

I recently saw some edits there which appeared to me to highly POV, some off-topic and some not supported by the sources; I reverted them. When I went to the talk page intending to discuss my removal of the content, I found a dumping of off-topic, highly POV, anti-kinsey articles by LegitimateAndEvenCompelling (talk · contribs). I removed the off-topic material from the talk page and left LegitimateAndEvenCompelling a note about it being inappropriate. In doing so, I discovered that on User:LegitimateAndEvenCompelling, the user lists his website which is used as a platform for Judith Reisman who published this article on his/her website.

LegitimateAndEvenCompelling has objected to my removal of the inappropriate material and restored it.

It's clear that I've become involved here, but it's also clear to me that LegitimateAndEvenCompelling has a very strong COI and an agenda that he/she is using Wikipedia to further. I'd like additional admin eyes on this please and I'd like to step away from it. Toddst1 (talk) 15:55, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

Yup, none of those links look at all relevant to a biography about Reisman, the first two for certain. The aim is probably to disparage Kinsey --Errant [tmorton166] ^(chat!) 16:00, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

(ec)

Are you saying that the editor Legitimate etc... is Judith Reisman? Not having looked into the content, but a lot of Kinsey's research has been discredited (at least in the eyes of the academic mainstream). If these are people with an academic interest in the subject, that isn't neccessarily a bad thing. If the worst offense the editor made was putting a bunch of links you think are irrelevant on a talk page, doesn't seem much of an issue.Bali ultimate (talk) 16:01, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

The editor in question appears to be a crusader, and that usually spells trouble. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 16:04, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

That's what I attempted to say. Thanks Bugs. Toddst1 (talk) 16:05, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

My comments appear on my Talk page in response to Toddst1. Please read them as if fully included here. --LegitimateAndEvenCompelling (talk) 16:11, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

"If the worst offense the editor made was putting a bunch of links you think are irrelevant on a talk page, doesn't seem much of an issue." Exactly. Thanks, Bali ultimate --LegitimateAndEvenCompelling (talk) 16:15, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

No, the issue is that you are editing with a COI and an agenda. Toddst1 (talk) 16:18, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

I think we need to see some - any - evidence of that, Toddst1. Currently we have some dubious links on a talk page - not highly prolematic. I've checked only the most recent LAEC post to the article page, and it looks fine. If no evidence then storm, teacup. If evidence, then whole new ball game. --Tagishsimon (talk) 16:23, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

Note the POV the editor is trying to push here,[11] and note the stuff he cites on his own website. Clearly the editor is a crusader. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 16:27, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

Yes, having looked at it he's a crusader. Wikipedia is filled with roving organized gangs of crusaders that harm articles to a much greater extent, however. If it's really bad, make a list of the 5 or 10 worst edits. If they stink, then something might be done (this wouldn't be a case where there will be a bunch of admin protectors for the particular crusade, so you might get someone. Separate the week from the herd and all that).Bali ultimate (talk) 16:33, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

Ok:

1. bandwagon: [12] [13] [14]
2. supression of criticism: [15] [16]
3. additional dumping of anti-kinsey material:[17] with important quote: "I'll bet it corroborates at least some of the information on this Wiki or that should be on this Wiki."

That took about 2 minutes. Toddst1 (talk) 16:34, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

Oh my. Here's the actual quote: "I have not yet read these articles. Based on the titles, it appears a Kinsey victim is speaking out. If so, I'll bet it corroborates at least some of the information on this Wiki or that should be on this Wiki." Toddst1 left out the "If so" and the context. That is not fair. --LegitimateAndEvenCompelling (talk) 17:15, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

Excellent. Remembering the injunction at the top of this page "Please include diffs to help us find the problem you are reporting.", it's just a shame the exercise was not done at 15:55. --Tagishsimon (talk) 16:38, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

My COI is about libraries as explained on my User page, not Kinsey. Reisman said something about libraries, but I promote none of her work regarding Kinsey, neither do I read it. --LegitimateAndEvenCompelling (talk) 16:38, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

Those links are normal editing and most are years old anyway. I'll bet if you go back over the years anyone would make similar edits. --LegitimateAndEvenCompelling (talk) 16:44, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

Mmmm. One of those - [18] - looked a little worrying to me. But it was a year-old edit and might (or might not) on further investigation check out. Neither it nor posting whatever on the talk page in the last few days. Where's the casus belli for this AN/I listing? What resolution is being sought? Still looks a bit tea-cup-ish for this venue. --Tagishsimon (talk) 16:57, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

I'm not talking about individual edits. Perhaps you can see a bigger picture from each of these edits. Toddst1 (talk) 17:14, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

Toddst1, you seriously misquoted me above to give the spin you wanted people to think. Please consider taking under advisement the comments of those who have commented substantively above. Please consider withdrawing your AN/I request. Thank you. --LegitimateAndEvenCompelling (talk) 17:25, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

I can be persuaded that LAEC has a POV, but not that there's any concern about it being pushed sufficient to be of interest in this venue. You asked for another opinion. You have that opinion. By all means ask for more opinions. --Tagishsimon (talk) 17:28, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

The crusade continues [19] removing anything that may be perceived as diminishing her qualification. Toddst1 (talk) 04:41, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

Removing a paragraph about her writing a Captain Kangaroo song from a 3 paragraph section is not a "crusade". It's good editing. Take a look at the underlying reference. It mentions the Kangaroo thing as an aside. For it to be cherry picked then placed so prominently on a Wiki page despite WP:UNDUE is possible POV. For it's removal to be called a "crusade" is definitely POV. And the complainer is the one who substantially misquoted me above to make a point.

Besides, writing songs or jingles is nothing to sneeze at. Song writing is not "perceived as diminishing her qualification", so the whole premise of Toddst1's claim is false. I have to wonder how he is able to read my mind to determine my perceptions. I suspect it is his own projection, his own demeaning of song writers or of children's television programming.

I wish Toddst1 would just edit instead of using procedural means or collapse templates to prevent editors from contributing. This new accusation by Toddst1 has nothing to do with his original reason for filing this AN/I. Further, I interpret Toddst1's comments on my Talk page to mean he admits he will not prevail in this AN/I. --LegitimateAndEvenCompelling (talk) 06:46, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

A quick note about that particular edit, it may be a good edit, I have no skin in that game, but a paragraph removal shouldn't be marked WP:MINOR. In isolation, that's nowhere near an ANI issue, of course. But it does need to said that marking content removal as minor in direct contradiction to WP:MINOR is at best going to create unnecessary conflict, not resolve it. --j⚛e decker^talk 20:34, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

• I have great respect for Baseball's views. But frankly I'm seeing a whole lot of smoke here, without much substance.

I think Bali hit it on the head. Probably most people who edit wikipedia have interests, and edit in those areas. That's fine. That's not a conflict of interest. That's not inappropriate POV/COI editing. The term COI is being used in what strikes me as a somewhat overblown manner. The diffs make the point eloquently.

For g-d's sake, we have (and have discussed recently) an editor stating on his user page: "This user supports the right of all individuals and groups to violently resist military aggression and occupation" ... along with the Palestinian flag ... And his edits arguably align with a point of view (though, for obvious reasons, I would not call him a "crusader").

We let that stand. But we're going to jump up and down about this? Really, folks?? Speedy close.--Epeefleche (talk) 12:53, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

• Indeed, articles on military, religious, personal, and obscure subjects tend to bring editors who have strong views and/or are specialists. We can’t be driving away the specialists as some tend to know far more about the subject than 99.9 percent of the rest of us. Without the specialists, most of our articles would be stubs! Accompanying the “expert” or “specialist” is a “human”, which has biases and is prone to errors. The proper way to handle this is to demand citations from most-reliable sources and avoidance of POV-pushing via the undo weight that can come from cherry-picking sources. I suggest a healthy dose of “prove it—let’s see the citation” from both parties on the talk pages of the Judith Reisman and Alfred Kinsey. The best balance with these sort of articles will come when there is a tug-of-war between equally knowledgeable skilled editors, where both refrain from personal attacks and wikilawyering and simply fall back upon Wikipedia’s first principles and its rules and guidelines, and both parties demand adherence by the other to them. Greg L (talk) 13:29, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

The editor in question is now edit-warring the Kinsey article to create a single one-sentence paragraph emphasizing this one author named Reisman.[20] Have fun, y'all. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 16:03, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

It's not an edit war. Our edits are perfectly legitimate even if wrong.

Here's the scoop. Saebvn adds Reisman to the Kinsey article. Baseball removes as undue weight. I restore saying a single sentence is not undue in this case. Steven reverts agreeing with Baseball. I revert to add it back in, this time adding a New York article saying "Judith Reisman is the founder of the modern anti-Kinsey movement" which I think, setting aside any bias whatsoever, means JR is worthy of being on the Kinsey page somewhere due to the WP:RS. Baseball reverts saying the New Yorker is known for its humor! I revert saying "Judith Reisman is the founder of the modern anti-Kinsey movement" is not funny.

That is not an edit war. That is an everyday content dispute. However, in the circumstance as must be considered by WP:RS, claims of undue and claims of the RS being sometimes humorous are not valid reasons to keep that simple sentence acknowledging "the founder of the modern anti-Kinsey movement" from being on the Kinsey page.

I have to say I have been patiently editing, supporting each move with Wiki policy, sometimes explicitly, and a string of people continue to act to promote their WP:SOAPBOX, like the effort to use the collapse template that failed, like this AN/I that is failing, like the false claims of an edit war, like the misquoting of me as I pointed out above. I have no and have shown no favoritism in either direction. I have a reliable source that I got from its already having been included in the article. I read that and it says "Judith Reisman is the founder of the modern anti-Kinsey movement". It's in a RS. Someone adds Reisman to the Kinsey page in a single sentence at the end of a long controversy section. Perfect placement. I add the ref to support the material. Someone please point out to me where I am showing POV in any way. I am not. It is in the RS and I just added that RS that was already previously in the article to a single sentence someone else added. I am doing my job as a fellow Wikipedian improving articles. I will continue to do so. --LegitimateAndEvenCompelling (talk) 17:40, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

Hey, I didn't even "create a single one-sentence paragraph emphasizing this one author named Reisman". Someone else did that. I just added a reference that was already used in the article in the past--indeed that's where I learned of it. So again someone is distorting the record to drive opinion his way. That is mistaken, and possibly dishonest given the circumstances. --LegitimateAndEvenCompelling (talk) 17:59, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

I see that yet another editor has removed your one-line paragraph about this Reisman character. You had best cease your edit-warring, and confine your comments to the article talk page and try to get some consensus. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 18:15, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

And when I last checked, an hour or two ago, LAEC has indeed taken it to the talk page, so hopefully this issue will soon be resolved. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 22:02, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

I've done the right thing all along. It was not fair what was done to me. Collapse templates, this AN/I, a 3RR warning, the false statements and misquotes made about me, etc. Hopefully what will be resolved soon is that people stop thinking they own Wikipedia and can bully others with procedural alternatives to editing.

If I would a newbie, I would have been browbeaten into leaving the Wiki page as a few editors wanted it instead of how it should be. That is not right and not what Wikipedia supports. Indeed it appears consensus is building to add JR to the AF page.

Someone above has called for this AN/I to be closed. Please someone second the motion and close it. It is an unfair black cloud on me that was used to keep me from adding content that now appears will be added. So please close this AN/I so it garners no more false claims about my supposed edit warring, etc. --LegitimateAndEvenCompelling (talk) 00:19, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

Sounds, per Baseball's most recent post, that this is on the right track, and being discussed on the talk page--which seems like the appropriate forum. No need for parallel discussions. I second the motion that this be closed, but will leave it to someone else to do the honors.--Epeefleche (talk) 06:24, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

Third the motion to close. Would do it myself, but I've commented above on a tangential but related point. --j⚛e decker^talk 18:20, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

Philip Baird Shearer Again

Unresolved

Moved to /Philip Baird Shearer to save space on this page. Please do not timestamp until this reaches the top of the page. Access Denied ^{[FATAL ERROR]}

Mass changes at Israeli settlement articles

Chesdovi (talk · contribs) is adding the sentence "The settlement was built in 1972 with good intentions by Israel, who brushed aside the adverse legal opinion of [the international community]" to numerous articles about Israeli settlements. These edits are unsourced. Given the scope of the user's activity, it appears to be unlikely that the user is unaware of our basic policies and guidelines.  Cs32en Talk to me  00:29, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

• Is this a content dispute? What administrative action are you seeking? Basket of Puppies 00:36, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
  • It's not a content dispute. It's a failure to adhere to basic Wikipedia policy re: sourcing. A reminder of WP:OR by an admin might be useful as well as a warning to halt the mass changes. Factomancer (talk) 00:44, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
    • At the very least, this user needed an ARBPIA notification and warning, which I have just issued.

      If they continue the behavior past the warning, it's definitely a problem.

      (as an aside - how come with this history, nobody had notified them earlier???) Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 00:47, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

      • As a party to the original case in 2008, Chesdovi requires no notification. CIreland (talk) 02:18, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
• Sigh again with Chesdovi, this is like the 10th notification this week. Chesdovi should follow our rules and guidelines about sourcing, which we already warned him in the previous post. He should be blocked until he decides to listen to our policies. Secret ^account 01:31, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
  • I told him in the last report that he had to add his source the first time, not edit war through to the seventh time.Elen of the Roads (talk) 02:03, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
    • The ArbCom remedies don't give any indication that involved parties are exempt from the notification and logging requirement -- yes, it's pedantic, but let's toe the line here. Somebody ought to undo all those edits, on the basis of being unsourced. I'm not going to do it because I don't want to become an involved admin. Looie496 (talk) 04:51, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
      • I would actually assume that they should know and abide by them if they were an involved party, and had I noticed that earlier I'd have done something slightly different I think.

        However, they seem to have stopped now, and if it remains stopped (for real) I don't see any need to take it any further. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 06:21, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

Chesdovi does not need a ARBPIA notification as he is one of the original Involved parties of the ARBPIA case: [21] --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 11:28, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

• I was not "involved". I see I was mentioned there, but I did not take part or read any of the ARBPIA at the time. Chesdovi (talk) 12:02, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
  • You were, nonetheless, notified of the outcome of the case, including the discretionary sanctions regime, by Rlevse on 19 January 2008: [22]. CIreland (talk) 13:07, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
    • Thank you so much for pointing that out. I was, however, not involved and did not take any notice of this message, left over 2 years ago. Even so, I did not consider my edits as deserving of the new placement by Georgewilliamherbert. An edit misconstrued by Cs32en has been blown out of all proportion. Chesdovi (talk) 13:44, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
• The editor in question is a propagandist. He will continue to be one, while avoiding "blocks."Bali ultimate (talk) 11:48, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
  • Go away "Bali" - you views are not wanted here. Stop stalking me. Chesdovi (talk) 12:02, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

This is accusation is false. All this is nonsense. Cs32en, Factomancer, Secret, Looie496 and Elen of the Roads: What do you mean it's unsourced and sources were not provided? SD provided two sources. It was SD who carried out mass changes to 39 pages by adding "Israeli settlements in the Golan Heights are regarded as illegal by the international community." I merely re-worded 16 pages using the line mentioned above to relect the actions taken by Israel in a more NPOV fashion, while using a different formulation in the other 23: "The settlement is considered an obstacle to social development and economic progress by the international community, who also regard its existence as unlawful, although Israel disputes this." Chesdovi (talk) 12:03, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

• I have removed the large red, bold, lettering style so other editors may not regard you as an idiot. If capitalising is the cyber equivalent of shouting, I am afraid your text choice came over as histrionic gibbering. LessHeard vanU (talk) 13:02, 21 October 2010 (UTC))
• You do yourself a dis-service, Chesdovi, by stating that that was all that you did. Your contributions history for the past day shows so much more. In order to prove your point about things in the Israel-Palestine dispute being called illegal settlements, you also edited 1 2 3 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 … 39 articles about places in Cyprus to describe them as illegal settlements too. I have to question the good sense of an editor who not only disrupts Wikipedia to prove a point, repeatedly (Judaism and bus stops (AfD discussion)), but decides to do so by jumping with both feet into another long-standing international dispute. The fact that you did this to 39 Cyprus articles, clearly not a coincidental number, speaks volumes. Uncle G (talk) 14:15, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
  • You are mistaken Uncle G. The legal edits to the illegal settlements in NC were made before SD added her statement to the 39 Golan pages. So according to your reasoning it is SD who is making a "point". The similar number is a coincidence. Also, while it has been accepted that I was in violation of WP:POINT at J&BS, it was not necessarily to disrupt. I had good faith in that article and that's why I tried so hard to bring it up to standard. It was precisely because of a keep at another similar article (that I did not vote on) that gave me the go ahead to create J&BS. I was not so much making a point, but rather following the example set by the retaining of the other page. J&BS violated no policies and was deleted because people didn’t like it. The comment I made on the talk page which insinuated it was a pointy creation was a swift response to a suspecting editor who did not approve of the subject matter. Chesdovi (talk) 15:27, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
    • No, kiddo. It is still clearly you disrupting Wikipedia to prove a point, by taking your Israel-Palestine dispute and leaping in to the Cyprus issue with edits there in order to make a point in the original dispute. The fact that you're discussing your Cyprus edits on your talk page with one of the very same disputants that your having an Israel-Palestine dispute with, that you're currently also now listed alongside at the edit warring noticeboard as well, is making the situation abundantly clear. You're in the middle of the third location dispute in the edit history of Rachel's Tomb. You're spilling over the Israel-Palestine dispute with point-making edits to Cyprus articles, a very foolish thing to be doing. And you're now subject to ARBPIA restrictions, set by PhilKnight. Uncle G (talk) 17:47, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

Let us not also forget the incident where Chesdovi removed a well sourced Moshe dayan quote without consensus for its removal at the talkpage, the quote which was about that Israel started and provoked the Six day war: [23] and then after this he cherry picked on sentence taking the entire quote way out of context and put it in huge quotations: [24] --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 14:58, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

• • Let us not forget indeed. And if you want to discuss the matter even further, please do. Chesdovi (talk) 15:39, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

I propose a twelve-month topic ban under WP:ARBPIA for Chesdovi (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log). The above discussion, and the user's "contributions" to it, should be sufficient justification. Physchim62 (talk) 18:41, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

There are two users involved in this mass-editing. Can Supreme Deliciousness comment on their ~40 edits in the articles about Israeli settlements ([25], [26],...,[27])? Is the timing and the content coincidental, or it's a WP:POINT response to Chesdovi's edits in the articles about places in Cyprus? --ElComandanteChe (talk) 20:47, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

I have for a very long time wanted to ad that the Israeli settlements in the Golan Heights are illegal in every single GH settlement article, but I have not gotten around to it earlier, I saw Chesdovi reverted my edit at Rachels tomb so I looked at his contributions to see if he reverted more of my edits and I saw his edits at the Cyprus articles and I was reminded that I had planned before to ad the information to the GH settlement articles, so I did. It wasn't to make a "point" as I had planned to ad the information in all settlement articles and I have before added that information to another article about the settlement illegality:[28] --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 21:02, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

One of those users provided reliable sources for their edits. See if you cant tell if that might be a difference between the edits. nableezy - 20:58, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

Actually, one of those users provided a primary source (or to be more precise, a secondary source that supplies only a quote of a primary source with no interpretation) and his interpretation of that source. No More Mr Nice Guy (talk) 14:17, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

And then he proceeded to follow Chesdovi around with edit summaries like you need a source that says: "occupied by Turkey and is considered an illegal settlement by the international community" [29] which is slightly amusing considering this isn't exactly the sort of source he used. No More Mr Nice Guy (talk) 14:32, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

Chesdovi blocked

I have just blocked Chesdovi for one month, for massively disruptive editing. This simply had to stop, and it was clear that the editor was going to blast forward until blocked. I am open to the block being lifted without consulting me, if Chesdovi can give assurance that the pattern of disruption will cease; however given the sorts of arguments that Chesdovi has been making, admins should be alert for disingenuous responses. Looie496 (talk) 18:30, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

• Support block, well deserved disruptive editor. Secret ^account 18:34, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
• Good call. PhilKnight (talk) 19:01, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

This is an overreaction in my view. Obviously Chesdovi and I are on different "sides" of a few disputes at the moment, and while I have problems with some of his edits I recognize that he is, more often than not, a good editor. Most people, including those who disagree with Chesdovi when it comes to many things in the ARBPIA topic area, would recognize that the user is an asset in areas of Jewish history as seen in his work on a number of articles on ancient synagogues. I would suggest a scope and time limited topic ban. Something like a restriction on modifying the location of sites in Israel and surrounding countries/territories and no edits on the legality of settlements for 1-2 weeks. A 1 month block is not necessary and deprives Wikipedia of an editor who, for all his faults, can be a valuable asset. nableezy - 19:32, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

• I have to agree with Nab here, topic ban could be more appropriate. Though Dovi, definitely, needs to treat Wikipedia more seriously, so Dovi should see this as warning for future sanctions. AgadaUrbanit (talk) 20:00, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

  I am open to replacing the block with a topic ban, but I am opposed to minutely engineered topic bans. It is important to resolve problems like this is a way that will stick, without having to be repeatedly tweaked, because that wastes large amounts of admin time, and time is the most valuable resource we have. Looie496 (talk) 20:12, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

He has already received a 1R restriction, over the entire topic area, until January by PhilKnight. This is just piling on.--Jiujitsuguy (talk) 20:31, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

That was from a different problem. nableezy - 20:36, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

@Looie; I disagree. Chesdovi's editing has been a problem in a very specific set of articles and in a very specific subject within those articles. If a restriction is needed it is only needed in that area. But whatever, make it a topic ban on the whole of the ARBPIA topic area instead, at least that would allow Chesdovi to continue working on other areas. nableezy - 20:36, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

• This case is similar to Prunesqualer and that user received a slap on the wrist [30] compared to the sanctions issued against Chesdovi. Chesdovi’s last and only block occurred four years ago[31] and he gets slammed with an extremely harsh sanction. A little consistency please.--Jiujitsuguy (talk) 20:40, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

Chesdovi is an experienced editor with thousands of edits, let's not get carried away with the comparisons. nableezy - 20:58, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

• Can someone explain what happened here? Chesdovi made a very valid point that nobody bothered even considering. It was SupremeDeliciouness that made mass unilateral contentios edit to numerous articles. Chesdovi merely modified the wording. Who initiated all this disruption?--brewcrewer (yada, yada) 21:02, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

I have not made any contentions changes or initiated any disruption. [32] What does the sources say? What did I ad to the article? So how was it contentious or disruptive? Now look at one of Chesdovis edits:[33] what source says this? --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 21:11, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

Adding a hugely disproportionate amount of text about legality to tiny stubs, like you did here to something like 50 articles in one day is yes both contentious and disruptive. A failure to understand that (or admit to that) is deserving of nothing less then a topic ban.--brewcrewer (yada, yada) 21:24, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

I fail to understand what you just said and I fail to "admit" to have done anything "contentious " or "disruptive".--Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 21:42, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

Exactly my point.--brewcrewer (yada, yada) 21:50, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

So why hasn't any admin topic banned me? --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 22:02, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

Exactly my point.--brewcrewer (yada, yada) 22:39, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

I swear, some of the comments made by those who reflexively support an "ally" make it very difficult to voice any support for Chesdovi. Chesdovi did not "merely modify the wording", Chesdovi removed sourced information and in its place, without providing a source, added things that can best be described as utter nonsense. That some users dont like sourced information does not make it "contentious" or "disruptive". nableezy - 21:09, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

• Nabeleezy, I would be open to a 1 year restricted topic ban if, conditional on that ban being imposed, you give your word that during that year you will not report Chesdovi for any violation other than breaking the topic ban. Feel free to propose a wording that would allow you to do that. Looie496 (talk) 21:14, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

Im confused. So if Chesdovi makes 10 reverts in 20 minutes on an article not covered by the topic ban, I shouldnt report it? Or if he repeatedly inserts BLP violations, I shouldnt report it? Im not saying that has or will happen, I just dont understand the condition. If yall really want that its fine by me. Ive edited with Chesdovi for a few years now and today was the first time I reported the user for anything. But 1 year is way too long. I was thinking more along the lines of 1 month. nableezy - 21:21, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

Looie496, Are you kidding!? the Chesdovi's last and only block came four years ago and you're ready to give him a one year topic ban? This is beyond unfair.--Jiujitsuguy (talk) 21:23, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

Chesdovi's recent behavior was significantly beyond acceptable behavior here, and he didn't slow down enough after the formal ARBPIA warning or after the topic-wide 1RR was imposed. There are only so many times we can say "stop" before we turn the red light on. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 21:46, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

You are mistaken. Chesdovi had not made any edits after the 1RR was imposed. nableezy - 21:48, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

I misspoke on edits after the 1RR. He did keep going after the ARBPIA warning. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 05:32, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

• Support length reduction of block as the length is way over the top. Possibly shorten it to 2-3 days, at most. Basket of Puppies 21:50, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
• Let me try to make this clear. Chesdovi has caused a huge amount of disruption over the past few days, and has shown no willingness to cease the disruptive behavior. We need a remedy that will prevent the same sort of disruption in the future. This is not about being fair, it is about preventing disruption. None of the people who are commenting here seem to be willing even to express a belief that he won't do a similar thing next week. So far Chesdovi himself has not said anything at all. A promise from him to cease the combative editing will allow this block to be lifted; the reason the block is long is to make it clear that such a promise is his only option. We admins are not capable of micromanaging the editing process in the I-P domain. There are two many articles and too many combative editors. When we apply sanctions, they are going to be blunt instruments. That may not be ideal, but it's the only way of avoiding a complete breakdown. Looie496 (talk) 21:55, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

Actually, we have a time-tested and long-lasting tradition of increasing-block-length as blocks follow blocks. Once an editor is blocked, future violations quickly increase to double (or greater) lengths. If they are persistent, they quickly find themselves in the 1 week/1 month/3 months/1 year ranges. It affords the person the ability to conform their editing to Wiki guidelines, without subjecting the Project to undue disruption. Or, as our blocking policy puts it: "For the purposes of protection and encouragement, blocks may escalate in duration to protect Wikipedia while allowing for the cessation of disruptive editing and the return to respected editing."--Epeefleche (talk) 05:05, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

• Comment Various issues with settlements have been a headache. Nableezy has a couple sanctions because of the issue. If editors are going to play with fire they are going to be burned and that needs to be clear. We have tried centralized discussions. We have tried AE. Nothing has stopped this trainwreck. I do believe the block is a little long but I am happy to see anything that makes it crystal clear that it needs to stop. I think Chesdovi needs to make it known that he understands what he did wrong (if he does believe that). If that is done I hope a reduction is considered but really it is about time that editors realize that such behavior cannot continue.Cptnono (talk) 21:59, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

• Support block, per Cptnono's comments. Good call, Looie496. The behavior on both sides of the I/P conflict on Wikipedia is ridiculous. It's hugely disruptive, and it must stop.  – OhioStandard (talk) 23:55, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
• endorse block and length of block I almost brought him here myself during the Judaism and bus stops article and subsequent AFD. Thats about all my interaction with him. His behavior there was disruptive, pointy and unapologetic and it seems to be continuing since then. I hope this is a wake up call for him. The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 03:05, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
• Oppose block as formulated; Agree w/Nableezy here ("Something like a restriction on modifying the location of sites in Israel and surrounding countries/territories and no edits on the legality of settlements for 1-2 weeks") or Basket ("2-3 days, at most"). I believe that the last editor I saw blocked for tendentious editing this week was a 2-day block (for PBS), revised ultimately to reflect instead him staying away from the articles that attracted his tendentious editing for a couple of weeks. Sounds like the correct ballpark, for a first block in four years.--Epeefleche (talk) 04:59, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
• Oppose deviation from regular norms of starting with a short block (or often a warning) and escelating to longer blocks only if necessary. No More Mr Nice Guy (talk) 14:17, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

I am not supportive of blocks myself, but this is one of those editors who needs a break. The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 02:40, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

• NOTE: Both Epeefleche and No More Mr Nice Guy who here above have opposed the block are both pro-Israeli editors. --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 13:55, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

And what are you? No More Mr Nice Guy (talk) 19:13, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

• I don't agree with the 2-3 days suggestion because that has frequently proven to be ineffective for this type of problem - we need effective measures to handle the issue. As a second choice, I support the block as it stands. As a first choice, due to the block log, I would support a reduction in length so that the block is for a fortnight, but that depends on whether he accepts a binding topic ban that lasts for 2 weeks after the block is lifted. Ncmvocalist (talk) 08:45, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

Block of TreasuryTag

Unresolved

Entire section has been moved to Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents/Block of TreasuryTag to centralize discussion and to save space on the ANI page. Please do not timestamp until this has reached the top of this page. –MuZemike

Tendentious editing by JPMcGrath on Gun laws in the United States (by state)

Resolved

 – Content dispute. No admin action needed at this time. –MuZemike 16:21, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

This is an issue that has gone on for months, the most recent events are chronicled at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Gun_laws_in_the_United_States_(by_state)#Brady_scorecard.2C_maps:_saga_continues, where there are also links to previous threads on the same topic. The issue was decided by consensus months ago, and suddenly JPMcGrath appears again claiming "There has been no rebuttal; rather obfuscation, obstruction, and dissembling" to his arguments, despite being given links to more than 30,000 words of discussion, as Mudwater demonstrated. He has been warned, has been treated respectfully and politely by both myself and Digiphi, but continues to push this POV. His arguments have not changed, yet he continues to add this content against consensus. At this time his actions merit "disruptive editing", and I'm asking for a topic ban on this. Rapier (talk) 23:46, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

I read through the talk page and had a good look at the article history. It is clear that JPMcGrath is trying to edit against local consensus. His language and approach might be a low level of tendentious editing, but it's mostly a content dispute. I will warn him to cease edit warring at the risk of being blocked. I saw no 3RR violations. Basket of Puppies 00:05, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

What I am seeing is tedentious editing on both sides of a "no consensus" poll on the talk page.

The response to a "no consensus" is not to go edit war over it on the article itself. It's to go back and try again to find an option that everyone agrees to.

Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 00:08, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

Finding an option that everyone agrees on may not be possible in this case. The discussion has gone on for more than seven months and now exceeds 30,000 words (yes, really). Many of the editors who have participated in the discussion have agreed that adding the Brady Campaign State Scorecard map to this article would violate NPOV by pushing a particular political agenda and by providing a soapbox for an advocacy group. Some have also stated that the map does not accurately assess the restrictiveness of the different states' gun laws. Others have suggested that the map might be appropriate for a different article -- for example, Political arguments of gun politics in the United States, or Brady Campaign, which currently does include the map -- but not this article, which simply describes the gun laws of the 50 states in as neutral and unbiased a manner as possible. At this point somewhat more than half of the editors have agreed on this, with a sizable minority not agreeing and saying that adding the map would be okay. Still others have floated the idea of balancing the map by also including another map that supports an opposing view, but there does not appear to be such a balancing map. Anyway, the article without the maps has achieved a very neutral point of view by simply presenting the facts of the laws, which are the subject of this particular article, without adding opinions of any kind. As I said, many editors have agreed that not adding the map is the best course of action. But editor JPMcGrath has refused to accept this and keeps adding it back. This is indeed contentious editing, as it has the effect of disrupting the article for the apparent purpose of advocating a particular political point of view. Here are links to the various discussions that have already occurred:

• Archived discussions:
  • Talk:Gun laws in the United States (by state)/Archive 1#2009 Brady Campaign State Scorecard
  • Wikipedia:Neutral point of view/Noticeboard/Archive 12#Gun laws in the United States (by state)
  • Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive603#User:Niteshift36 disruption at Talk:Gun laws in the United States (by state)
  • Wikipedia:Requests for mediation/Rejected/45#Gun laws in the United States (by state)
  • Talk:Gun laws in the United States (by state)/Archive 1#Brady and other maps
  • Talk:Gun laws in the United States (by state)/Archive 2#RfC: Should the Brady map be removed or retained?
• Discussions currently on the article talk page:
  • Talk:Gun laws in the United States (by state)#Proposed removal of all maps
  • Talk:Gun laws in the United States (by state)#Brady scorecard and other maps, continued
  • Talk:Gun laws in the United States (by state)#Brady scorecard, maps: saga continues

— Mudwater ^(Talk) 00:29, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

Agreed, adding the "Brady scorecard" to a state would be analogous to adding the NRA scorecard on a candidate (or anyone else's scorecard, for that matter) to a candidate's Wikipedia article. Having said that, YESPOV is indeed part of NPOV. The main point, though, is that editors must work in good faith to pursue consensus on how to present contentious topics. Jclemens (talk) 02:26, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

Agree completely. While this isn't the place to argue content, I'll simply clarify that buried in those arguments is the point made by myself and others that an NRA map would be just as inappropriate. We aren't trying to push one point of view or the other, we're trying to remove all point of view and simply list the laws in an encyclopedic manner. When third-party analysis of raw data get interjected that is when POV problems occur, and as Mudwater stated above, there are already articles discussing the political debate about gun laws. The maps are included there and continuing to add them here despite clear consensus is the problem. Rapier (talk) 03:32, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

I don't see a new clear consensus on that point. What I see is several editors who were on one side of the July "Remove all maps or not?" discussion - which an apparently uninvolved admin closed as "No consensus" - continuing the discussion and asserting now that you have consensus, without the participation of most of the other side.

Nothing in the new discussions invalidates the July discussion. No effort was made to revisit it with another clear poll / RFC. It seems like some previously active editors are less active now, but that doesn't invalidate their participation in the last clear poll / RFC type discussion.

ANI is not a replacement for going back to the page and holding another RFC. If those other editors are gone and it's a new consensus that's fine. But this is not the place - and attacking the lead map proponent for disruption is not the right approach - to solve the no consensus problem. Do it right, on the article. Get a consensus. If it's still "No consensus" then accept that. If it goes your way this time, with whoever shows up to bother to participate, then he will need to accept that as well. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 09:32, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

We've had seven months and more than 30,000 words of discussion, including a Request For Comment, a posting on the Neutral Point of View Noticeboard, and a Request For Mediation. A majority of editors -- including myself -- feel very strongly that adding the Brady Scorecard map is an egregious violation of NPOV, and also distorts the facts, while other editors don't agree and think that adding the map would be okay. It seems to me that if many of the participants agree that the map would be a major NPOV violation, and pushes a one-sided political agenda, that trumps other editors saying that it would enhance the article slightly by providing an attractive graphic of summary information. Also, part of why JPMcGrath's editing is tendentious is that he keeps saying that editors such as myself have not explained why adding the map would violate NPOV, when in fact we've just spent the last seven months explaining it, over and over and from many different perspectives. There's a difference between "you've explained the reasoning behind your opinions at great length and in many different ways, but I still don't agree," and "you haven't explained the reasoning behind your opinions," but the difference seems to elude JPMcGrath. So, I find it hard to believe that prolonging the discussion any further would have much benefit at this point. — Mudwater ^(Talk) 11:37, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

Good grief, that debate is still going on? As I recall, the main issue with that map is that it presupposes certain things and gives a value judgment as to each state's attitude toward gun control. The problem is whether that map presents an unbiased assessment. Since they themselves are its authors, obviously they are going to judge which parameters to be used. Now, if you had a similar map from the point of view of the NRA, those two maps would be interesting for the reader to compare, and see if they "agree" on each states' attitude toward gun control, even though the groups are obviously on opposite sides of the issue. That is, the NRA might consider a restrictive state to be a "bad" state, and the Brady bunch might consider it to be a "good" state - but it's possible they might rank the states the same way, just flip-flopped in order. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 13:48, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

Again, this isn't the forum for content dispute, but to clarify the argument is that all maps offer up a POV that is inappropriate in an encyclopedic listing of state laws, not that the "Brady" map alone should be removed. Let's please be clear on the prime mover is, and not allow this to become an issue directed at a single point. Rapier (talk) 22:45, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

Seems to me that a map like that could be useful, IF it were verifiable and not pushing a viewpoint. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 22:56, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

It may well be useful in the context that Bugs describes, but it's simply not acceptable to keep readding it as it's been done here. There needs to be the wider context that Bugs is talking about if there's any chance for this kind of advocacy ranking to be relevant in a general state article. Shadowjams (talk) 08:17, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

User:Shoplifter

User:Shoplifter notified[34]

User:Shoplifter persists on reverting reliably sourced information on Preemptive war because he objects to the content. I tried discussing the matter with him on the Talk page [35] but he refuses to engage and simply reverts. He has already done it three times.

• here
• here
• here

On the last two occasions, he utilized an IP geolocating to Sweden. When I previously challenged him as to his usage of IPs, he admitted that it was him and he uses both his user name (Shoplifter) and IP to edit. [36]

These are the sources that he continues to revert:

• Vytautas Kacerauskis, Can a member of The United Nations unilaterally decide to use preemptive force against another state without violating the UN charter? International Journal of Baltic Law Volume 2, No. 1 (January, 2005) ISSN 1648-9349.
• Professor of International Law, Anthony Amato Israel's Air Strike Against The Osiraq Reactor: A Retrospective 10 Temple International and Comparative Law Journal 259 (1996) Code A961
• Clifford D. May, Can Sanctions Cripple Iran?, National Review, 1 October 2009
• United Nations Security Council Resolution S-RES-487(1981) on 19 June 1981 (retrieved 2007-08-10)

I have also added additional sources in the Talk Page including The Osirak option (New York Times) and Congressional Record but he still refuses to discuss and chooses instead to engage in tendentious reverts. These sources clearly comply with WP:RS and WP:V. I am at a loss as to how to proceed as this user clearly has no interest in discussion. I am asking that User:Shoplifter be blocked or article banned or both for tendentious reverts, refusing to engage in the Discussion Page per WP:BRD and using multiple IPs to evade 3R and/or charges of edit warring. --Jiujitsuguy (talk) 15:41, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

I'm un-hatting the above section. There is no reason to hat it; ANI threads typically get this long, or longer, and hiding the discussion has no real purpose. It doesn't allow others to easily skim through things without unnecessarily making them click.— Dædαlus ^Contribs 05:10, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

Self-reverted now that I see the creator of the reply hatted it.— Dædαlus ^Contribs 05:15, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

Administrative disruption at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/MediaWiki:History short

I'll make this as short and neutral as possible:

1. Would any administrator care to review the discussion at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/MediaWiki:History short and implement the obvious consensus? If you believe there's a procedural issue with the nomination, you might also see Special:Prefixindex/Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/MediaWiki:.
2. If it happens that no administrator sees a consensus in that discussion, would any administrator please unprotect the page so that discussion might continue to a consensus?
3. Would anyone at all care to comment on the actions of the administrator who used the page-protection tool to cast and enforce a "supervote" in the discussion?

— Gavia immer (talk) 18:28, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

For contesting the closure of a deletion discussion, please use WP:DRV. This is exactly the sort of procedural issue to be discussed there. The protection of the deletion discussion will be moot after DRV. Since you do not seem to have attempted to discuss this issue with Ruslik0 before coming here, I do not see why we need to start a discussion about his page protection in this forum. I see nothing to do here for an administrator at this point.  Sandstein  18:45, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

You have also not notified Ruslik0 about this request, as you are required to do (see this page's edit notice). Please do so at once.  Sandstein  18:47, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

Done now [37]. — Gavia immer (talk) 18:52, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

I did not enforce any supervote. I only protected the page to prevent your from undoing the closure for the second time, which is contrary to policy. For the details see my answer on my talk page. Ruslik_Zero 19:16, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

Twinkle abuse by Gregorik

This edit is a vandalism revert against me using Twinkle, marked as minor, made by User:Gregorik in an ongoing content dispute. I'm not a vandal, I'm a fellow editor concerned about what's in the lead section of the American exceptionalism article. Here is another revert of my work marked as minor a few days ago. Binksternet (talk) 01:37, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

• Hmm. I agree with Binksternet; those reverts should never have been marked as minor. I don't know if ANI decided it wouldn't deal with rollback abuse anymore (after the last time I ratted someone out...), but these two edits are not right. I have not looked at Gregorik's other edits yet since I don't want to start some sort of hunt, but I do believe that Gregorik ought to be reminded of the proper use of rollback. I see also that Bink has asked Gregorik on their talk page for clarification, but the question was never answered. Drmies (talk) 03:29, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
• User:Binksternet has a long history of edit warring and his rollback rights were denied as a result (earlier this year). I have no history of edit warring and I'm not interested in warring. My last Twinkle edit was mistakenly marked as minor. Based on the lengthy discussions on the talk page of American exceptionalism (2009-10) it also becomes apparent that, regretfully, Binksternet has a vested interest in slanting said article, and he continues to succeed. Among others, he has deleted a very relevant, peer-reviewed citation published by Ghent University AND the University of Lodz that was used as a balance. All I've been trying to do is balancing the article. Please evaluate. ᴳᴿᴲᴳᴼᴿᴵᴷ☺ᶤᶯᵈᶸᶩᶢᵉ 10:18, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

  No disputes here about the revert itself, but I'd remind you that it was a content dispute, not vandalism as defined by Wikipedia. Please be careful which rollback button you use in Twinkle - if you had used the custom "rollback" button and entered a cogent reason for the revert then we wouldn't be here. ~ mazca ^talk 11:58, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

Gregorik, edit warring in my past is not the subject of this AN/I; you are. Your Twinkle vandalism revert was a gross violation of Twinkle guidelines, and your argument rings hollow that the latest marking of your revert as minor was a mistake. In your edit history in the last week there are only two edits marked as minor and both are content dispute reversions of my work. This has every appearance of intention.

Your incorrect take on my supposed "vested interest" throws light back upon yourself. My only wish for that article is that it be as clear and intelligible to the reader as possible—I could give a freakin' flip about what it says politically, as long as the references are good ones, with an emphasis on mainstream thought, whatever that thought is. The only reason you and I have been at cross purposes there is because of your making it opaque and inaccessible via writing style, buttressed with refs in quantity, not quality. I thought we were moving forward past all that. Binksternet (talk) 13:17, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

I thought so too. But do you honestly believe that the article's content is not grossly slanted to accommodate a certain position? You've spent hours erasing specifically leftist remarks, much of them from peer-reviewed sources -- from the lead & the body. ᴳᴿᴲᴳᴼᴿᴵᴷ☺ᶤᶯᵈᶸᶩᶢᵉ 15:38, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

• All rollbacks, whether using the rollback tool or using twinkle, are automatically marked as "minor"; Gregorik didn't make the decision to mark them minor, so that part of the issue can be dropped. He did, however, make the decision to roll them back rather than undo them with an edit summary. Gregorik, please don't do that, not so much because it violates rollback policy, but because there is no short term or long term benefit to you, to Binksternet, or to the article. The 5 seconds you save in not writing an edit summary, or the satisfaction you feel in yanking someone else's chain a little bit by calling them a vandal, is always lost by the time you spend defending the edit in places like ANI/WQA/etc. --Floquenbeam (talk) 15:19, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

Point taken, will do. I don't get any pleasure from labeling anyone a vandal though (quite the contrary). ᴳᴿᴲᴳᴼᴿᴵᴷ☺ᶤᶯᵈᶸᶩᶢᵉ 15:29, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

Gregorik, I responded to your note on my talk page, but let me add that "point taken" suffices for me (I obviously can't speak for Binksternet; I hope they feel the same way). May I add that strong terms like "vested interest" and "gross violation" are probably not conducive to settling this, so both sides would be advised to tone it down some. If this ever gets out of hand we will all get much less pleasure out of hanging around the wiki. Drmies (talk) 15:36, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

Twinkle allows edit summaries, so you could have done a rollback using Twinkle and provided an appropriate edit summary. In this particular example, you were reverting only one change, so an undo, rather than a rollback, would have been easy to do. My practice is to undo single changes and rollback multiple changes by one user. Either way, I always provide an edit summary unless it's a rollback of clear vandalism.--Bbb23 (talk) 15:39, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

Alright; as a sign of good faith, I apologize for labeling Binksternet's edit an act of vandalism. For the 5.5 years I've been on WP, I've never been reported on ANI even though I have thousands of edits. As an aside, I just wish more people would be interested in the content of the article which I think is flawed and slanted. ᴳᴿᴲᴳᴼᴿᴵᴷ☺ᶤᶯᵈᶸᶩᶢᵉ 16:21, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

ANI is not a place to discuss content, so i'm afraid that we are not allowed to be interested in the content while commenting here. And your apology, when tampered with a statement much like a "but" (Your "I've never been reported on ANI even though I have thousands of edits"), doesn't really constitute a real apology. Just to point that out. Silverseren^C 17:36, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

banned user has never stopped using WP

Resolved

 – Underlying IP hardblocked. –MuZemike 16:11, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

This is my 2nd attempt to notify admins of the ongoing contributions of the banned user Rbj. Last time I did it as an anonymous IP number and nothing happened. Let's see if this works. The banned user's tone of voice is usually enough to give him away once you know his contribution profile. He is based in Masachussetts/Vermont and the Geolocate function can help with identification (though sometimes his work takes him interstate). Some recent contributions by him are listed here and here and here and here and here and here and here (a small sample).

I suggest you either un-ban this guy, so that we can all keep a better eye on him, or start policing your own ban. Maybe one solution is to restrict some of his favourite articles to subscribed users only. I don't know. It's your problem (you guys banned him) so you guys can sort it out. This is my last involvement with the issue. McZeus (talk) 02:30, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

The community banned him. That means you too, User:Amphitryoniades. Jon —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.147.52.80 (talk) 03:22, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

Actually no, I didn't ban him. If I had, I would have policed it. If you can't police a ban, don't impose one. As it turns out, I have now done a bit of policing in the case of Rbj but that's all I'll do (I no longer edit the kind of articles he likes to control). Now it's up to the admins to do something. On past performance that will be 0. Incidentally, yes I am Amphitryoniades and I was Lucretius and also Esseinrabusinanetamenfatearenecessest. Does that change anything? McZeus (talk) 04:02, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

I'm sure the admins would be more than happy to help if you would post here when you discover a sock of Rbj, or you could request a WP:SPI. Kcowolf (talk) 04:21, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

What I would do if I were an admin:

1. Option 1: a) familiarize myself with Rbj's past record; b) monitor half a dozen of Rbj's favourite articles for edits by non-subscribing users; c) delete any edits that look like his; d) In future don't ban anybody unless I and my fellow admins have some idea about policing our own decisions;
2. Option 2: forget about Rbj and empower myself by banning somebody else;
3. Option 3: ban myself, disguize myself very cunningly as an anonymous IP number, and defy my own ban for the next three or more years, editing when, how and as I please, much to the annoyance of everyone else who follows the rules.

Fortunately, I'm not an admin and those decisions are out of my reach. McZeus (talk) 05:18, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

I am an admin, and I have hardblocked the underlying IP. –MuZemike 05:33, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

I'd just like to point out that there are millions of articles on Wikipedia and only a few thousand admins, many of whom are inactive. It's simply impossible to stay on top of things like this without users bringing them to our attention. Looie496 (talk) 17:40, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

Block 217.42.172.203

Resolved

 – Blocked by Materialscientist. ~ mazca ^talk 11:36, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

Can someone please temporarily block this IP? He's just posting warning msgs randomly. Gregcaletta (talk) 11:31, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

Cheers. Gregcaletta (talk) 11:37, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

Wouldn't WP:AIV a better place to report this? With a note that this user is randomly posting warning templates? Just curious. Telco (talk) 11:42, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

I'm sure the same outcome would have occurred if it had been reported there. As it is, though, this was slightly outside the area of normal vandalism so an ANI report also seems perfectly reasonable, particularly given that the reporter was the one being accused of "vandalism" by the IP. Either would have been a valid choice. ~ mazca ^talk 11:53, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. Telco (talk) 11:57, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

Totally fishy. Help me out here.

Resolved

 – No further admin action needed at this time. Let an admin know if the other account starts editing so they can take action. –MuZemike 16:11, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

a) there is PatakaZikatuna (talk · contribs) who just vandalized an AfD page for the article Velle Baria
b) there is Vellbaria (talk · contribs) who has the same content as her userpage, and got autoblocked (Autoblock #2063232) because of PatakaZikatuna's vandalism, so the two are using the same IP, or at least range
c) PatakaZikatuna also edits Vellbaria's userpage
d) there is a subpage User:Hebrides/Vell Baria which PatakaZikatuna edited last month

WTF is going on here? Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 ^{> haneʼ} 11:32, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

Hebrides' subpage is easily explained by the fact that it's a userfied version of a previous mainspace article, that was edited by Vellbaria before it was moved. As for the other two, it certainly looks like a potential pair of sockpuppets - but given that Vellbaria (talk · contribs) hasn't edited in quite a while I'd suggest we just wait and see if further disruption ensues. I can't exactly see that AfD closing as anything other than a delete. ~ mazca ^talk 11:44, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

Hm. So... do I have to go to SPI now? It's basically a mute point, the IPs are confirmed (>autoblock) and PatakaZikatuna's first edit was to Vellbaria's userpage. It just quacks too loudly... Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 ^{> haneʼ} 11:58, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

I'm absolutely not disputing that they're the same editor - and both will get blocked if further disruption happens. But unless I'm missing something, there is no abusive sockpuppetry here - since PatakaZikatuna (talk · contribs) was created, Vellbaria (talk · contribs) has not edited to any significant degree. Given that there's obvious autobiography going on here, I would make the assumption that the user decided to stop editing under their real name. My opinion is that we should just treat PatakaZikatuna as the current account in use, and block both if the disruption continues, or if any attempt to vote-stack occurs. ~ mazca ^talk 12:04, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

Vallbaria asked to have the autoblock lifted as soon as PatakaZikatuna block took effect. So clearly, the person is using both accounts and maintains both in case one gets blocked. Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 ^{> haneʼ} 12:09, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

User:86.177.248.165

Resolved

 – Block deemed appropriate. –MuZemike 16:11, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

• 86.177.248.165 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

I have blocked this IP to stop disruption. They have been posting what appears to be a non-NPOV rant over several articles. As they have done no other editing the evidence can be foound in their contributions. I do not know if I have taken the correct action, so I have only blocked them for three hours. I am also considering rolling their edits back. If I have erred, please advise. Also, any admin that feels the block inappropriate may unblock without protest from me. Thanks for any input. Tiderolls 13:23, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

Completely appropriate block. (Coulda been longer) Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 ^{> haneʼ} 13:30, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

Of course, I would have no problem with a block extension either. I'll know in three hours if it's necessary. Tiderolls 13:33, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

I had already rolled back or undone all of the edits that others hadn't got to before noticing your block notice on their page. 3 hours didn't seem very long to me! Bigger digger (talk) 13:47, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

To add, they started off ok by adding unsourced info about a new film to Harry Hill, then they started their complaint against the UK's HMCS and the family courts, and the same contribution was copy and pasted to maybe 10 other articles all vaguely linked to family law, but including American activists and others. Bigger digger (talk) 13:50, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

I didn't want to send them off mad if they actually want to contribute constructively. They've yet to respond to several requests on their talk page, so I am not at all hopeful. We shall see. Tiderolls 13:52, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

Looks like a good block in all senses. And congratulations for attempting discourse instead of just spamming templates at them, as others may have done. -- zzuuzz ^(talk) 13:54, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

Well done, Tide--I don't mean the block, but your behavior associated with it: the note on their talk page. BTW, I also think that the block could have been longer, but I am pleased to see you exercise restraint. I am sure you are saving your strength for tonight. Drmies (talk) 15:33, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

Disney's House of Mouse talk

Resolved

 – –MuZemike 17:48, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

Talk:Disney's House of Mouse is regulary (began 30 January 2010 and more then 30 vandalism reverts) being vandalised with same type of content from different IPs, probably by same user. Is there a way to resolve it? Automated reverts by bot? or semi-automated? or some type of protection? --Kslotte (talk) 17:23, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

Talk page semi-protected 3 months. There has not been a single constructive edit from any IP for much longer than that. –MuZemike 17:48, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

Unblock request needs a review

Could some admin please review the unblock request at User talk:Jrkso? It has gone almost a day without review, and as the blocking admin I don't want to review it myself. Let me mention though that the editor deleted a comment I added to his talk page in response to the request. Looie496 (talk) 17:35, 23 October 2010 (UTC)