Template talk:Did you know

For discussion of the "Did you know" section, see Wikipedia talk:Did you know.

George Kunkel ... that actor George Kunkel (pictured) portrayed in blackface the character of Uncle Tom, using it at first to promote slavery during the American Civil War but later to attack it, after his views had changed? ... that sauerkraut made by members of a Russian spiritual sect in Armenia was popular in many other parts of the Soviet Union? ... that The Blue Angels was shot using IMAX cameras rigged to a helicopter, plus an ultra-high-speed camera shooting at 1,000 frames per second? ... that Margaret Carroux's German translation of The Lord of the Rings contains errors introduced by her editor? ... that the LACE satellite tracked rocket plumes from space for the United States's Star Wars program? ... that Melanie L. Campbell was arrested for civil disobedience while protesting proposed restrictions on voting rights? ... that historically, lichens like Umbilicaria torrefacta have been used to naturally dye traditional Scottish tartans and textiles? ... that American poet Edwin Ford Piper preserved 828 folk songs, most of which were from Iowa and Nebraska? ... that before reading the script for the play Golden Girls, at least nine of the cast members were under the impression that they would be taking the lead role?

This page is for nominations to appear in the "Did you know" section (reproduced on the right) on the Main Page. Eligible articles may only be up to 5 days old; for details see these rules.

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Instructions

List new suggestions here, under the date the article was created or expanded (not the date you submit it here), with the newest dates at the top. If a suitable image is available, place it immediately before the suggestion. Any user may nominate a DYK suggestion; self-nominations are permitted and encouraged.

Remember:

• Proposed articles should:
  • not be marked as stubs;
  • contain more than 1,500 characters (around 1.5 kilobytes) in main body text (ignoring infoboxes, categories, references, lists, and tables). This is a mandatory minimum; in practice, articles longer than 1,500 characters may still be rejected as too short, at the discretion of the selecting administrators.
  • cite their sources (these sources should be properly labelled; that is, not under an "External links" header); and
  • be no more than five days old (former redirects, stubs, or other short articles that have been expanded fivefold or more within the last five days are acceptable).
• Articles on living individuals must be carefully checked to ensure that no unsourced or poorly sourced negative material is included. Articles and hooks which focus on negative aspects of living individuals should be avoided.
• Articles with good references and citations are preferred.
• To count the number of characters in a piece of text, you will need to use a free website like this, or an external software program that has a character-counting feature. For example, if you are using Microsoft Word, select the text from the article page (or, in the case of "Did you know" nominations, this Talk page) – not the edit page containing Wikitext – then copy and paste it into a blank document. Click "Tools", then "Word Count", and note the "Characters (with spaces)" figure. Other word processing programs may have a similar feature. (The character counts indicated on "Revision history" pages are not accurate for DYK purposes as they include categories, infoboxes and similar text in articles, and comments and signatures in hooks on this page.)
• Suggested facts (the 'hook') should be:
  • interesting to draw in a variety of readers,
  • short and concise (fewer than about 200 characters, including spaces),
  • neutral,
  • definite facts that are mentioned in the article, and
  • preferably cited in the article with an inline citation.
• Suggested pictures should be:
  • suitably and freely (PD, GFDL, CC etc) licensed (NOT fair use) because the main page can only have freely-licensed pictures;
  • attractive and interesting, even at a very small (100px-wide) resolution;
  • already in the article; and
  • relevant to the article.
  • formatted as [[Image:image name |right|100x100px| Description]] and placed directly above the suggested fact.
• Proposed lists should have two characteristics to be considered for DYK: (i) be a compilation of entries that are unlikely to have ever been compiled anywhere else (e.g. List of architectural vaults), and (ii) have 1,500+ character non-stub text that brings out interesting, relational, and referenced facts from the compiled list that may not otherwise be obvious but for the compilation.
• Please sign the nomination, giving due credit to other editors if relevant. For example:
  • *... that (text)? -- new article by [[User]]; Nom by ~~~~
  • *... that (text)? -- new article self-nom by ~~~~
  • *... that (text)? -- new article by [[User]] and ~~~~
  • *... that (text)? -- Article expanded fivefold by [[User]]; Nom by ~~~~
  • *... that (text)? -- Article expanded fivefold and self-nom by ~~~~
  • *... that (text)? -- Article expanded fivefold by [[User]] and ~~~~
• Please check back for comments on your nomination. Responding to reasonable objections will help ensure that your article is listed.
• If you nominate someone else's article, you can use {{subst:DYKNom}} to notify them. Usage: {{subst:DYKNom|Article name|July 4}} Thanks, ~~~~
• If you want to confirm that an article is ready to be placed on a later update, or that there is an issue with the article or hook, you may use the following symbols (optional) to point the issues out:

Symbol	Code	Ready for DYK?	Description
	[[Image:Symbol confirmed.svg|18px]]	Yes	No problems, ready for DYK
	[[Image:Symbol question.svg|18px]]	Query	An issue needs to be clarified before the article's eligibility can be determined
	[[Image:Symbol possible vote.svg|18px]]	Maybe	Article is currently ineligible but may only need some minor work to fix.
	[[Image:Symbol delete vote.svg|18px]]	No	Article is either completely ineligible, or else requires considerable work before becoming eligible

2024-07-04T00:00:00Z

Backlogged?

This page often seems to be backlogged. If the DYK template has not been updated for substantially more than 6 hours, it may be useful to attract the attention of one of the administrators who regularly updates the template. See the page Wikipedia:Did you know/Admins for a list of administrators who have volunteered to help with this project.

Candidate entries

Articles created/expanded on May 13

• ...that Erik Möller, Deputy Director of the Wikimedia Foundation, helped to develop both Wikinews and Wikimedia Commons? (self-nom, over 5x expansion from stub) Cirt (talk) 07:25, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

i see no problems - hook is good, article is well written and sourced, meets character limit. Hook is in article, but as two separate statements: both are however reffed. BG7 10:53, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

• ... that before Dr. Seuss's Yertle the Turtle and Other Stories was published by Random House, a meeting had to be held because it contained the word "burp", which was then considered vulgar? — (not entirely sure about the wording, please suggest) self-nom, Mr. Absurd (talk) 05:25, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

perhaps:

... that a meeting had to be held before Dr. Seuss's Yertle the Turtle and Other Stories was published by Random House as it contained the word "burp", which was then considered vulgar?

Hows that for an alt hook?

however, i'm not too sure that it meets DYK's guidelines. It's not new, and it doesnt' appear to have expanded five-fold. BG7 10:57, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

• ... that Brussels lace is made in pieces, with the design made separate from the ground, unlike Mechlin lace or Valenciennes lace, and is known for its delicacy and beauty?

alternatively ... that in order to get around the prohibition on foreign lace imports into England in the late 1600s, mechants smuggled in Brussels lace calling it 'Point d'Angleterre' or "English point"? new article, self nom Loggie (talk) 07:31, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Articles created/expanded on May 12

• ... that Operation Facelift united the UK's co-operative retailers with a single logo in 1968, reinforcing The Co-operative brand? — New article by User:JonStrines. Nom by Hroðulf (or Hrothulf) (Talk) 04:46, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

• ... the Harihareshwara temple in Karnataka, India, was consecrated in 1224 CE for a rare deity, Harihara, a fusion of the Hindu gods Shiva and Vishnu?(self nom)Dineshkannambadi (talk) 00:09, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

• ... that the 1911 Confederate Dedication Day ceremony key speakers at the Battle of Tebb's Bend Monument (pictured) were former Union officers? (self-nom)--Bedford 21:49, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

• ... that Philip Roosevelt, first cousin once removed of Theodore Roosevelt and aerial warfare expert, helped the United States Army plan its first air-land battle?--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 21:23, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Need to boldface new article. Daniel Case (talk) 21:28, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

• ... that Ichitaro Kanie grew Japan's first tomatoes in 1899, founding the ¥157 billion Kagome tomato empire? -- Article expanded fifteen-fold and self-nom by Hroðulf (or Hrothulf) (Talk) 15:49, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

This may be a snappier alternative wording, if you like that sort of thing:

... that tomatoes were not grown in Japan until 1899, when Ichitaro Kanie germinated the 150 billion yen Kagome Company?

Hroðulf (or Hrothulf) (Talk) 04:32, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

• ... that serial killer Nathaniel White killed six women in Orange County, New York from 1991 to 1992? (self nom) Kafziel ^{Complaint Department} 05:02, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
  • From rules above: Articles and hooks which focus on negative aspects of living individuals should be avoided. Not sure what else there is to say about this guy, though. —97198 talk 14:00, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Does Wikipedia aim to have an article on every serial killer?--Wetman (talk) 15:25, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

If they're notable. Of course we do. Kafziel ^{Complaint Department} 02:28, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

• ... that serial killer Nathaniel White claimed his first murder was inspired by a scene in Robocop 2? Created by Kafziel, nominated by myself. Daniel Case (talk) 15:21, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

That's much better than my original suggestion. Thanks! Kafziel ^{Complaint Department} 02:28, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

File:Con Un Mon in Morgantown KY.JPG

• ... that the Confederate–Union Veterans' Monument (pictured) in Morgantown, Kentucky was built due to the feelings of reconciliation following the Spanish-American War? (self-nom)--Bedford 03:32, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

• ... that the engineer's report for an attempt at draining and development of the Everglades in 1912 was riddled with errors, but advertised by real estate developers? new: self-nom --Moni3 (talk) 00:45, 12 May 2008 (UTC) (Note to checkers per the suggestion of User:Gatoclass: Draining and development of the Everglades was posted prior to information from that article being added to the Everglades article. --Moni3 (talk) 16:29, 12 May 2008 (UTC))

• ... that although the first Callawayasaurus fossils was discovered in 1962, it was not until 1999 that they were recognized as a separate genus? selfnom Ryan shell (talk) 00:14, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

• ... that the Otis Smith Kids Foundation helped disadvantaged children in the areas of education, personal development and recreation? Created by User:Mgreason, nom by User:RyRy5. -- RyRy5 (talk ♠ Review) 01:14, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

• ... that according to the documentary Kuxa Kanema: The Birth of Cinema, Mozambique had no film industry or film school when it became independent from Portugal in 1975, thus requiring the government to bring in film teachers from Brazil and Cuba to give lessons for the nation's aspiring filmmakers? selfnom Ecoleetage (talk) 02:40, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
  • Hook waay too long (should be under 200 characters) and article itself too short (should be over 1500 characters). —97198 talk 14:01, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

• ... that Eddy Shell, a Louisiana educator and local politician, was in the 1950s the youngest Eagle Scout in Arkansas?--self-nom Billy Hathorn (talk) 17:56, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

• ... that Cecil Williams, a Louisiana business journalist, worked prior to World War II in Kentucky coal mines delivering dynamite and blasting caps to miners?--self-nom Billy Hathorn (talk) 17:56, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
  • needs some more referencing and references need to be cleaned up... also, I am not sure a telephone number is a valid source at all... it seems very original research. gren グレン 00:34, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

• ... that Ayesha Omar sparked controversy in Pakistan when she painted two semi-nude self-portraits? (new article; self-nom) – Arun Reginald (talk · contribs) 20:54, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

• ... that the Alexandria Daily Town, the principal newspaper of Central Louisiana, was established by Irish immigrants on St. Patrick's Day in 1883? --self-nom Billy Hathorn (talk) 00:46, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Articles created/expanded on May 11

• ... that the Gottlieb Storz House in Omaha, Nebraska is home to the Astaire Ballroom, which is the only memorial to Adele and Fred Astaire in their home city? (self-nom) • Freechild'sup? 04:45, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
• ... that Jordan's Municipality of Salt's library system contains 14,000 volumes? Article by Ldud nom by BobAmnertiopsis_{ChitChat Me!} 18:38, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Frankly, this hook is unremarkable, uninteresting and unimportant. I'm working with Ldud to find some better ones...any suggestions are welcome, too! BobAmnertiopsis_{ChitChat Me!} 02:20, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

• ... that while Thomas Scott was a Member of the Canadian House of Commons he organized and equipped the Ninety-fifth Manitoba Grenadiers in thirteen days after he was asked by the Minister of the Militia to raise a regiment to put down the North-West Rebellion of 1885? (self-nom) Reggie Perrin (talk) 18:08, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

• 265 character hook. Art LaPella (talk) 21:37, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

• ... that 6 of the Top 8 players at the 2002 Magic: The Gathering World Championship used Psychatog decks? (self-nom) --Ptcamn (talk) 10:41, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

• ... that Jimmy Doolittle commanded a twenty-two plane demonstration celebrating the opening of Henderson, Kentucky's Audubon Memorial Bridge in 1932? (self-nom, 5x expansion)--Bedford 01:39, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

• ... that the Japanese visual novel Yotsunoha allows the player to navigate in a top-down perspective similar to a console role-playing game? (new, self-nom) -- クラウド６６８ 01:37, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

• ... that during the digging of the foundations of the Beacon Mill (pictured) a smock mill at Rottingdean, Sussex, England a human skeleton was found.? By user:Mjroots. Nom by « Milk's Favorite Cookie ^{( talk / contribs)} 01:30, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

• ... that the St. Philip's Church Ruins (pictured) include the graves of two North Carolina governors and an Associate Justice of the Supreme Court? (self-nom; working on the two red links tonight) APK ^{yada yada} 22:38, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

• ... that the USS Boy Scout (SP-53) was a ship named for the Boy Scouts?

• This article currently isn't long enough for Did You Know. See #Instructions for details. Art LaPella (talk) 06:27, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

• ... that the 1999 Chamoli earthquake, which occurred in the Chamoli district, was also felt at Delhi?

or,

• ... that the magnitude of the 1999 Chamoli earthquake measured 6.8 on the Richter scale? (new article, self-nom) Otolemur crassicaudatus (talk) 15:55, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

or,

• ... that the 1999 Chamoli earthquake, in which 103 people died, was also felt in the Baitadi, Dadeldhura, Darchula and Kanchanpur districts in Nepal? Otolemur crassicaudatus (talk) 01:36, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

• ... that Eric Cole, who played for Kent in the 1938 English cricket season had previously played for the Egypt national cricket team, though he had been born in Malta? (Self-nom) Andrew nixon (talk) 14:58, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

• ... that the murder case of Mary Rogers has never been solved, but theories include gang violence and a failed abortion? (Self-nom; not sure if I like this hook so help is welcome) --Midnightdreary (talk) 13:58, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

It would be a rather dreary hook, especially for a midnight update. *wink* Maybe make a hook from the Edgar Allan Poe connection; of course, making something less dreary by adding Poe is a bit odd.--Bedford 14:32, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

I'd argue that, since the majority of Poe's work is comedy or adventure, adding Poe isn't necessarily dreary but, then again, I've read his full collection. I was hesitant to add the Poe connection because, well, there have been too many Poe DYKs (I wonder whose fault that is?). Even so, here's the alternative:

• • ... that the unsolved murder of Mary Rogers was fictionalized as "The Mystery of Marie Roget" by Edgar Allan Poe? --Midnightdreary (talk) 22:39, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

• ... that the CMKC Group will construct 1500 km and renovate 512 km more railway in The Republic of the Congo and own management rights for the upcoming 30 years? -- new article self-nom by Jaakobou^{Chalk Talk} 10:32, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
  • Hook isn't cited in article. —97198 talk 14:43, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
    • I think I now addressed your concerns. Jaakobou^{Chalk Talk} 05:25, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

• ... that Israeli actress Hanna Maron lost her leg after a grenade was thrown at her airplane, but resumed her acting career a year later? new article, self nom -- Nudve (talk) 09:25, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

• ... that the W.S. Gilbert play Creatures of Impulse had 91 performances on its initial run and two revivals during the 1870s? Durova^Charge! 05:11, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
  • I've kept expanding this, and think the new material has a better hook:
  • ... that the New York Times wrote that W. S. Gilbert's play Creatures of Impulse was a "burletta of the stamp that was in vogue a hundred years ago, resembling Midas, perhaps, more nearly than that of any modern burlesque. It contains pretty music, and smart if not witty dialogue, a semi-moral and a semi-plot."

• 308 character hook. Art LaPella (talk) 21:37, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

• • OR: ... that in the W.S. Gilbert play Creatures of Impulse, an evil fairy enchants everyone to behave in such annoying ways, that she is driven off herself by the chaos? [self nom] -- Ssilvers (talk) 02:47, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

• ... that khutba is the sermon delivered before the Muslim weekly congregational prayers on Friday, and after the annual congregational prayers on each of the two Muslim festivals?(expanded self-nom)Bless sins (talk) 04:44, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
  • (I made khutba lower case). A few minor issues which wouldn't change the DYK which I will address on talk page. gren グレン 14:57, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

• ... that Union general Stephen G. Burbridge spent many years trying to remove the letters CSA from the Thompson and Powell Martyrs Monument (pictured)? (self-nom)--Bedford 04:42, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

• ... that Frank Reaugh, landscape artist of the American West, died in poverty in 1945 because he gave away most of his art which promoted the theme of pastoral harmony in nature?--self-nom, revised and expanded from a stub Billy Hathorn (talk) 20:31, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

• ... that Ellis Rimmer played three international matches, his last being just before his 25th birthday in December of 1931 against the Spain national football team? Created by User:Mick Knapton nom by User:RyRy5. -- RyRy5 (talk ♠ Review) 22:05, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
  • Further than what? Metros (talk) 22:13, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
    • I removed "Further on." -- RyRy5 (talk ♠ Review) 01:18, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the nom: I'm sure a better hook would be:

• ... that Ellis Rimmer when playing for Sheffield Wednesday in 1935 became one of only twelve players who have scored in every round of the FA Cup? Regard Mick Knapton (talk) 08:20, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

• ... that Whitney Ellsworth became associated with Major Malcolm Wheeler-Nicholson's fledgling company National Allied Publications, later known as DC Comics? Created by User:Ntnon, nom by User:RyRy5. -- RyRy5 (talk ♠ Review) 01:37, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

• ... that A Bayou Legend by William Grant Still was the first opera composed by an African American to be broadcast on television? selfnom Ecoleetage (talk) 02:36, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

** definitely on the short side, needs more references and the current ones formatted. gren グレン 00:21, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

• Expanded past 1,500 characters, ref added and all refs formatted. Above hook still cited and holds true. Please reconsider. BobAmnertiopsis_{ChitChat Me!} 11:14, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Articles created/expanded on May 10

The New York Vauxhall Gardens in 1803

• ... that while the New York Vauxhall Gardens drew in colonial New Yorkers with a wax museum and outdoor theater, a copycat competitor attracted them with ice cream? — Dulcem (talk) 00:07, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Stalin, Roosevelt & Churchill

• ... that 19-year-old Soviet intelligence agent Gevork Vartanian was credited with thwarting Operation Long Jump, a Nazi German attempt to assassinate Stalin, Roosevelt and Churchill (pictured) at the 1943 Tehran Conference? -- new article by Brendan Filone (talk · contribs), nom. by PFHLai (talk) 23:07, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
  • Not nearly enough references (or not clear enough--you may add more links--at least one per paragraph). You also need to use Template:cite web to clean up your reference styles. gren グレン 00:10, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

I've notified the author. There should be ample time to fix up the citations. --PFHLai (talk) 01:32, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

• ... that the 1575 Valdivia earthquake caused a landslide and flooding similar to the 1960 Valdivia earthquake – the most powerful earthquake ever recorded? (self-nom) Dentren | ^Talk 16:29, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
  • Sorry, this is way too short and need in text notes. But, you do have a few days to beef it up and make sure the referecnes are clear. gren グレン 18:02, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

• ... that the National Hockey League was created as a means to remove Toronto Blueshirts owner Eddie Livingstone from the National Hockey Association? (self-nom) Resolute 15:16, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

• ... that air transport in Nagpur is the busiest in India with more than 300 international flights flying over the city every day?
  ... that railway transport in Nagpur started in 1867 when the Nagpur railway station was constructed using locally found pink sandstone?
  -- created by User:Dwaipayanc, expanded and nom by --gppande «talk» 14:52, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
  • Needs properly formatted references first -- should use Template:cite web but at least needs to have access dates, website names and more than just title and URL. gren グレン 14:47, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for comment. Used Template:cite web for as many refs as possible. Please review now. --gppande «talk» 15:02, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Looks good besides one which is broken and I will try to fix. gren グレン 17:58, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

• ... that before Homer Plessy challenged the Separate Car Act leading to Plessy v. Ferguson, Daniel Desdunes had challenged it but had his charges dropped? (self-nom) gren グレン 06:31, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

• ... that Major League Baseball pitcher Dom Zanni was knocked unconscious in the seventh inning, yet went on to finish pitching the game and earn the win for the Chicago White Sox? (self-nom, Wizardman 02:03, 12 May 2008 (UTC))

• ... that Lorenç Mallol was the first Catalan poet to imitate Petrarch, but he wrote in Occitan? (self-nom) Srnec (talk) 23:48, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

• ... that the Orton Plantation (pictured) near Wilmington, North Carolina, was attacked by Native Americans, was used as a military hospital, and was home to a governor? (self-nom) APK ^{yada yada} 22:22, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

I've included 2 pix. The first is the house and the second is the driveway. I like the 2nd more, but since the house is the focal point of the plantation I included it. APK ^{yada yada} 22:22, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

• ... that scholars disagree on whether the Viking chieftain called Jakun was blind or handsome? (self-nom)--Berig (talk) 15:34, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

• ... that the Nashville Predators actually increased their team payroll by 44.30% between the 2003–04 NHL season and 2005–06 season, despite a league-wide drop of −22.73% after a salary cap was implemented? — new article self-nom by − Twas Now ( talk • contribs • e-mail ) 01:54, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

• ... that velcro was invented after a close look at the burrs that stick to clothing? self nom, expanded article (Well, I know the article was only expanded 4.14x, but I couldn't get these hooks out of my mind, so I felt compelled to share.) Loggie (talk) 21:43, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

... that David Letterman brought velcro into the national spotlight when he proved that with enough velcro a man could be hurled against a wall and stick?

... that juniors in a high school in Florida were rewarded for academic performance with the chance to go don velcro suits and go velcro jumping?

... that velcro figured in a failed strap-on device for impotent men?

... that astronauts have a patch of velcro inside their helmets that acts as a nose scratcher?

I like this hook--Bedford 14:42, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

... that Velcro employees are required to use the term 'Velcro brand hook and loop fasteners' to describe their product?

... that the manufacturing process used to create silent velcro for the United States Army is a military secret?

I like this hook--Bedford 14:42, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

I count a 4.43 expansion, which I personally would allow, especially on a topic which would likely be on a CD version of Wikipedia. The trivia section should be merged into a pop culture section, with suitable references.--Bedford 14:42, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

That was the one section I had left untouched 'cause I didn't know what to do with it/didn't want to have to find references for... However, I've done it, and doing so has increased the lenghth, and perhaps increased the quality- does it look better now? Loggie (talk) 18:04, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Everything looks good. 4.5x expansion. However, when I pasted it onto Word, and with my Firefox spellchecker, both say Velcro should always be capitalized. Is that so?--Bedford 19:44, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Well, the OED has it, as a verb, both capitalized and uncapitalized, and as the 'proprietary name for....' strictly capitalized. The free dictionary has the verb as always lowercase, and says both are an option for the noun. So, I'm not sure- my best guess is that when mentioning Velcro brand it should be capitalized, but if the single word "velcro" could be replaced with "hook and loop fastener" than it needn't be, though I know the Velcro corporation would strongly disagree with me. Loggie (talk) 19:54, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Mechlin lace

• ... that Mechlin lace (pictured) was popular with the English royalty, and was a favorite of Queen Charlotte and Princess Amelia? self nom, new article Loggie (talk) 21:43, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

• ... that six governments have jurisdictional boundaries at Four Corners (pictured)? Article completely re-written and expanded per ongoing discussion at talk page. Dave (talk) 21:32, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Everything looks good to me, although others would demand inline cites at the end of more paragraphs.--Bedford 05:04, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

FWIW - I have worked on this article more and added more sources.Dave (talk) 22:15, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

• ... that Safi Faye's 1975 film Kaddu Beykat was the first commercially distributed feature film made by a Sub-Saharan African woman? -- new article self-nom by BelovedFreak 21:16, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

• ... that the Master of the Saint Bartholomew Altarpiece was among the leading painters in Cologne at the beginning of the sixteenth century? (self-nom) --User:AlbertHerring ^{Io son l'orecchio e tu la bocca: parla!} 20:10, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

• ... that the Polish minority in Ireland is the country's largest minority group apart from British people? new article self-nom by Fribbler (talk) 20:04, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

• ... that Amman's Mango House (pictured) was built in separate halves for the two brothers who lived there? New article by Ldud, nom by BobAmnertiopsis (talk) 18:37, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

• Alt wording ... that Amman's Mango House (pictured) was built in separate halves to accommodate the two brothers who lived there? Article: Ldud, nom by: BobAmnertiopsis (talk) 18:40, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

• ... that American Pioneers to the Northwest Territory established Marietta, Ohio as the first permanent American settlement in the Northwest Territory, opening the westward expansion of the new United States? -- new article self-nom by ColWilliam (talk) 17:46, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

• ... that the first roadside park (picture of site sign) was in 1919 at Iron River, Michigan? New article - self nominated by --Doug ^talk 17:26, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Valenciennes lace

• ... that Valenciennes lace (pictured) is a type of bobbin lace which originated in Valenciennes, France? self nom, new article Loggie (talk) 11:15, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

• How about combining the two: ...that what differentiates Mechlin lace from Valenciennes lace is the cordonnet, a loosely spun silk cord used to outline and define the pattern? Lampman ^{Talk to me!} 09:32, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

• ... that Jill Price is the first known person to have the ability to remember nearly everything that happened in her life, due to an extremely rare condition called hyperthymestic syndrome? --w^{L<speak·check>} 05:51, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
  • Too short, articles should be 1500 characters or more. —97198 talk 08:51, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

• ... that the $2 million Baltimore City Hall (pictured) was designed by a 22-year-old architect in 1867? self-nom Marylandstater (talk) 03:25, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

the architect, George A. Frederick, has an article now. The 1860 design was delayed and begun in 1867: why not "completed in 1875"?--Wetman (talk) 15:30, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

File:Lord.JPG

• ... that Swaminarayan is a modern tradition of Hinduism known as the Swaminarayan Sect in which followers offer devotion and worship Lord Swaminarayan (pictured) as the final manifestation of God?--self-nom    Juthani1   ^tcs 01:23, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

• ... that a new article about Muxlim a social networking service for Muslims ...... Misaq Rabab (talk) 01:19, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

• This article currently isn't long enough for Did You Know. See #Instructions for details. Also, I think mentioning "a new article" is inconsistent with Wikipedia:Self-references to avoid. So I suggest ... that Muxlim is a social networking service for Muslims? Art LaPella (talk) 02:47, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

• ... that brothers Arthur Melmoth Walters and Percy Melmoth Walters, who were England football defenders, were known as "morning" and "afternoon" in allusion to their initials? --- New articles - self-nom. --Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 05:41, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

• ... that the 2006 Gilberto Gil album Gil Luminoso is described by Gil as being religiously themed, even though he is an agnostic? new article, self-nom --Kakofonous (talk) 17:06, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Articles created/expanded on May 9

• ... that the idiopathic inflammatory lung disease diffuse panbronchiolitis has the highest incidence among Japanese, Korean, Chinese and Thai cases, indicating a genetic predisposition among East Asians? -- new article by Rcej (talk · contribs), nom. by PFHLai (talk) 10:47, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

• ... that a timber in Nutley Windmill (pictured), an open trestle post mill in Sussex, England, has been dated by dendrochronology to 1738–70, and the main post is even older, dating to 1533–70? -- new article by Mjroots (talk · contribs), nom. by PFHLai (talk) 10:47, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

• ... that after writing Confederates in the Attic, Tony Horwitz was sued for calling Alberta Martin's husband a deserter in the book? (self-nom, 5x expansion) --Bedford 20:55, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

• ... that Sam Cowan is the only footballer to have represented Manchester City in three FA Cup finals? (self-nom, expansion) Oldelpaso (talk) 09:20, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

• ... that the 40th Grey Cup in 1952 was the first time this Canadian football championship was broadcast on television? (selfnom) Dl2000 (talk) 22:33, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

• ... that classical violinist Nadja Salerno-Sonnenberg appeared as herself in the 1999 film Speaking in Strings, a documentary portrait of Salerno-Sonnenberg's life, which received a nomination at the 72nd Academy Awards? (self) --PeaceNT (talk) 14:40, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

• ... that Daddy Cool’s 1971 single "Eagle Rock" remained at #1 on the Australian National charts for a record ten weeks? It was replaced by "Daddy Cool", the song for which they were named, performed in Chipmunks style by Drummond (later became Little River Band).(self-nom)--Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 22:01, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

• 259 character hook. Art LaPella (talk) 22:07, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

• ... that Daddy Cool’s 1971 single "Eagle Rock" was Australian National #1 for a record ten weeks? It was replaced by "Daddy Cool", for which they were named, in Chipmunks style by Drummond (became Little River Band).(self-nom)--Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 22:53, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

• ... that General Abdul Hamid Khan was the de facto Commander-in-Chief of the Pakistan Army during the 1971 Bangladesh Liberation War and the subsequent Indo-Pakistani War? He was later indicted for dereliction of duty by 1974 Hamoodur Rahman Commission Report. (self-nom)--Razzsic (talk) 21:21, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

• 256 character hook. Art LaPella (talk) 21:33, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

• ... that General Abdul Hamid Khan was the de facto Commander-in-Chief of the Pakistan Army during the 1971 Bangladesh Liberation War? He was later indicted for dereliction of duty by the 1974 Hamoodur Rahman Commission report. (self-nom)--Razzsic (talk) 15:10, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

• ... that the runestone U 328 was probably raised in memory of Ónæmr whose nephew Ulf of Borresta took three danegelds in England, whose nephew Ragvaldr was the captain of the Varangian Guard in Constantinople, and whose grandson Holmi died in Italy?(self-nom)--Berig (talk) 17:53, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

• … that the General Synod of the Church of England has the power to make laws which have the same effect as an Act of Parliament? --(self-nom)-- Dmvward (talk) 17:45, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

• ... that the assembly location Arkils tingstad may have been made to christianize the Vikings who lived in its vicinity? (self-nom)--Berig (talk) 15:43, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

• ... that the theory of camouflage led the Special Air Service to use pink as the primary color on the desert camouflaged Land Rover Series IIA patrol vehicles, leading to the nickname The Pink Panthers? -- new article self-nom by scot (talk) 14:24, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

• No qualifying article. Art LaPella (talk) 21:10, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Fixed the link, and the article was moved from my user space into article space in May 9, which I was under the impression qualified it as "new" on that date. scot (talk) 14:43, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

• Oops sorry, I missed the article move. Art LaPella (talk) 21:39, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

• ... that Italy's newly appointed Minister for Equal Opportunity, Mara Carfagna, used to be a showgirl and a glamour model? -- new article, self-nom -- Lampman ^{Talk to me!} 13:40, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

• ... that the cargo ship MV Virginian, now under contract to Military Sealift Command, was accidentally hit by an Exocet missile while unloading cargo in Iraq in 1986? -- Article expanded sevenfold, self-nom by Haus^Talk 12:55, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

• ... that the day after the death of six IDF soldiers in the Battle of the Beaufort (pictured), Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin was still under the impression that it was won without casualties? -- new article, self nom -- Nudve (talk) 11:38, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

• ... that The Janus Man, a thriller concerning espionage and betrayal, is the fourth book in the "Tweed and Co." series, for which Colin Forbes published a book every single year from 1982 to his death in 2006? (self) -- Anonymous Dissident^Talk 09:49, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
  • You need to make references full... especially the first... I'd have no idea how/where to access that. gren グレン 00:48, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

• ... that the historic Golden Gate Theater (pictured) was saved by a stop-work order after demolition crews had begun to dismantle the walls? new article, self nom. Cbl62 (talk) 06:15, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

• ... that former University of Texas at Austin President William S. Livingston also chaired the committee that established the Lyndon B. Johnson School of Public Affairs? -- new article self-nom by Cheers, CP 03:29, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

• ... that Harley Parker, in 1973, was selected to be the first William A. Kern Institute Professor of Communications at the Rochester Institute of Technology, in Rochester, New York? Created by User:Leif.parker, nom by User:RyRy5 who significantly improved/expanded the article further. -- RyRy5 (talk ♠ Review) 02:35, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

_{Subscript text}

Bert Haney

• ... that Bert Haney (pictured) lost an election to the U.S. Senate, but was later confirmed by the Senate for a seat on the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit? (self) Aboutmovies (talk) 08:25, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

• ... that the Madhu school bus bombing was the second attack on a civilian bus in Sri Lanka during January 2008? new article (self nom) Watchdogb (talk) 15:18, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

• The rules state that the hook fact must be stated in the article. There is no statement that this was "the second bus bombing" of the month. Gatoclass (talk) 10:39, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

• ... that after months of work, future Canadian impresario Samuel Gesser made only $200 from his first production, a 1953 Pete Seeger concert? new article (self nom) Slp1 (talk) 16:37, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Articles created/expanded on May 8

• ... that S.A. Swaminatha Iyer protested the British salt tax in India at the first session of the Indian National Congress in 1885?-(self-nom, expanded five-fold) by -Ravichandar_{My coffee shop} 08:25, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

• ... that The Reverend John H. Taylor served as post-Chief of Staff for former United States President Richard Nixon from 1979 to 1994? (self-nom) Happyme22 (talk) 23:50, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

• ... that Michigan Limestone and Chemical Company is the world's largest limestone quarry? New article, self-nom by --Doug ^talk 21:25, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

• ... that DePauw Avenue Historic District, New Albany, Indiana, was once the summer estate of the man that owned 2/3 of the plate glass business of the United States? (self-nom)--Bedford 20:39, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Washington C. DePauw

Would that man happen to be Washington C. DePauw (pictured)? --PFHLai (talk) 08:26, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Yes, it would be.--Bedford 16:07, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

• ... that the Manchurian revival of 1908 was the first Christian spiritual renewal to receive nationwide attention in China as well as international recognition? (selfnom)Brian0324 (talk) 20:09, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

• An awful lots of quotes here, and the article seems to be relying rather heavily on one evangelical source. Gatoclass (talk) 10:33, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

• ... that prior to his election to the Oregon State Senate, Rick Metsger was best-known as a sportscaster for a Portland, Oregon television station? (selfnom) --Esprqii (talk) 19:48, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

• ... that American bobsledder Waightman Washbond fought in the Siege of Bastogne during the Battle of the Bulge with the 101st Airborne Division in World War II? (self-nom) Chris (talk) 14:47, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Reference verified but way too short. Daniel Case (talk) 02:28, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

• ... that Spanish actor Unax Ugalde played a gay hotel heir in the 2005 film Queens? art. created+nom by --Wood elf 05:24, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
  • No inline citations. --Rosiestep (talk) 23:46, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Nor is this anywhere near long enough, nor is this fact even in the article. Daniel Case (talk) 02:22, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

• ... that Nuit (song) sold about 202,000 copies making the song the most successful single of the trio Jean-Jacques Goldman, Carole Fredericks, and Michael Jones? Created by User:Europe22 nom by User:RyRy5 who improved the article.-- RyRy5 (talk ♠ Review) 03:50, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Cited source doesn't say anything about it being their most succesful single. Daniel Case (talk) 02:20, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Kilkenny Castle

• ... that the highest temperature ever recorded in Ireland, where the climate is temperate oceanic, was 33.3ºC (91.9ºF) at Kilkenny Castle (pictured) on 26 June, 1887? -- new article by Sulmac (talk · contribs), nom. by PFHLai (talk) 19:40, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Length and reference verified. Daniel Case (talk) 02:12, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Expiring noms

Articles created/expanded on May 7

• ... that Litchfield, Quebec, was spelled as "Licthfield" on the Gale and Duberger map of 1795 and not officially created until 1834? -- P199 (talk) 15:45, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Reference verified; too short. Daniel Case (talk) 21:45, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

• ... that thirty-seven people were killed during the building of the Big Four Bridge (pictured) across the Ohio River, connecting Louisville to Jeffersonville, Indiana? (self-nom, 5x expansion)--Bedford 05:18, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
  • The picture is of a fire that happened yesterday, not during the bridge's construction. Would a non-fire picture be better? I'm just thinking that some people will see the smoke and assume that it has something to do with the 37 deaths. – jaksmata 14:57, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
    • I took pictures of the various boats in the Great Steamboat Race two weeks ago as they reached the Bridge, so maybe I'll upload one of them. Still, it's a great pic.--Bedford 16:29, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

• Yeah, I think the fire pic will just confuse people. Gatoclass (talk) 10:00, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

• ... that the Kaleva Bottle House (pictured) was built using over 60,000 bottles? New article (self-nom) by --Doug ^talk 20:32, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

• Some of this article is cut-n-paste from one of the sources...until this is resolved, article shouldn't be on DYK. BobAmnertiopsis_{ChitChat Me!} 02:01, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

• The words in issue have been removed and the article rewritten. --Doug ^talk 20:19, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

• Looks okay now. Gatoclass (talk) 11:13, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

• ... the Theory of Relativity will work in theory, but it will not work in actuality because space will disintegrate before time? ṜέđṃάяķvюĨїήīṣŢ ^{Drop me a line}_{Review Me!} 15:31, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
  • There are so many things wrong with this nom that it doesn't seem worth listing them. – jaksmata 19:39, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

• The hook does not qualify, although I think the criticism is unnecessarily hostile. The article isn't new. To claim relativity is wrong is presumably uncited. See #Instructions for details of our rules. Art LaPella (talk) 00:39, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

• I apologize for sounding hostile, that was not my intention. Given the inappropriateness of the hook, and that Redmarkviolinist is an experienced editor with admin aspirations, I figured this was some kind of joke. – jaksmata 14:03, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

• ... the Seburo MN-23 bullpup rifle comes with a built-in flashlight, knife, and camera that records upon depressing of the trigger?(Cleanup the cruft and added the appropriate references; I dunno, think this would be better in April Fools Wikipedia DYK seeing that this can be mistaken for a real company?)
  • (if that doesn't work or is not nominated for April Fools)... that the Seburo MN-23 bullpup rifle name comes from 23 rough drafts of the gun designed by Masamune Shirow? --293.xx.xxx.xx (talk) 04:45, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
    • I'm not laughing. What's funny/ironic in the hook? Royalbroil 12:17, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
      • Probably because the hook makes it sound like a real rifle, and not a fictional one, I reckon.--Bedford 13:16, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
        • Refs appear to be totally in-Universe anyhow. Gatoclass (talk) 13:25, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
          • Doesn't matter for this discussion anyway. The article is not new (created 11 July 2004) and the edits during the last 5 days reduced the total size from 7,844 bytes to 6,579 bytes. – jaksmata 14:20, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
            • The reduction was in part due to unsourced fancruft and unsourced speculation which was deleted. For example, the Useage Outside Shirow Works before the huge edit had at least 5 separate "references" to other entertainment properties, which only one had a sourced article that could prove it's claim. Also, many of the other guns had no comparable references in the works listed. Minor pain trying to find references that weren't fan sites a/or written totally in Japanese. (speaking I can handle, it's written that make sit hard on me...)--293.xx.xxx.xx (talk) 22:36, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
              • Actually, the rules require the article to be new or expanded fivefold, and the precedent is that the character count doesn't depend on how bad the previous article was, or on whether you kept the text. Art LaPella (talk) 00:48, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

• ... that the 1952 Pittsburgh Pirates, the worst Pirates team of the century, were so bad that their catcher, sportscaster Joe Garagiola, said "In an eight-team league, we should've finished ninth"? - Expanded - well - infinitely. Content was essentially non-existent and was probably an WP:AFD waiting to happen. Self nom. William I of Schenectady (talk) 04:24, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

Garagiola was the catcher in 1952 and became a sportscaster later in life, right ? The hook seems to say the catcher doubled as the sportscaster for the team. Is it just me? (With the catcher wearing a microphone under his helmut and doing play-by-play when he should be calling for pitches and directing the infield defence, no wonder the team sucked!) I tried to rewrite this hook to clarify and previewed, but I didn't like what I've typed, so I ain't saving any of my alt.hooks. I'm leaving a note here and hope someone can fix this. --PFHLai (talk) 01:54, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

How about just remove "sportscaster"? Many would probably know that Garagiola was later a sportscaster anyway, esp. since his sportscasting career eclipsed his catching career by a significant margin. William I of Schenectady (talk) 02:29, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

• The article says " number of losses were the worst for the franchise since the 1890 season" and "Since 1952, the only non-expansion team to finish worse has been the 2003 Detroit Tigers" but doesn't provide a cite for either statement. Gatoclass (talk) 09:57, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

• Refs added. William I of Schenectady (talk) 11:23, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

File:Begum.jpg

• ... Ali Saleem (pictured), also known as Begum Nawazish Ali, is the first ever cross-dressing Pakistani man to have gained popularity amongst the religious leaders in the country? - Article expanded five-fold and self nominated by Arun Reginald (talk · contribs) 07:02, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

• The source (LA Times) says "[one religious leader] liked his show". The article says "some even love his show". The hook here says he "have gain popularity amongst the religious leaders". It went from fact to deceptive exaggeration awfully quick. – jaksmata 15:35, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

• I have enhanced the article again by adding another source where it says " even the country's religious leaders have appeared undisturbed, even amused ..." by Begum antics. Nevertheless, I think you are right; the above fact should go more like: ... Ali Saleem (pictured), also known as Begum Nawazish Ali, is the first ever cross-dressing Pakistani man to have gained acceptance in the conservative Islamic nation of Pakistan? - Arun Reginald (talk · contribs) 17:06, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

• I can't verify the other source due to internet filtering where I'm at right now. Yes, it's frustrating, but there's nothing I can do about it. Someone else will have to check it. – jaksmata 16:37, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

• The second hook sounds okay, but you will need to provide a cite for it, I can't see one, in fact the Blade article says cross-dressing males are a long-established tradition in Pakistan. Gatoclass (talk) 09:50, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

*... that Welsh soprano Amy Evans last sang in public at age 91 and was the last surviving original cast member of a Savoy Opera when she died in Baltimore, Maryland in 1983 at age 98? -- self-nom Drhoehl (talk) 03:01, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

• This new/expanded article used on DYK on 2008-05-11 and thus can't be used again. BobAmnertiopsis_{ChitChat Me!} 00:49, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Articles created/expanded on May 6

• ... that there are no LGBT rights in Pakistan and the nation is one of the few that retains the punishment of death for someone involved in acts of homosexuality? - Article expanded fivefold and self-nom by Arun Reginald (talk · contribs) 02:43, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
  • Edits on May 5-6 are not even threefold expansion. This article would almost have to double in size again before it would meet minimum requirements. – jaksmata 14:42, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

• ... that the early 20th century concept of ethnographic Lithuania claimed as Lithuanian territories with less than 30% Lithuanian population? --self nom by _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 22:17, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
  • There's something not quite right with the grammar in this hook. A concept was claiming something? I understand what you're trying to say, but the wording is confusing. I think a better hook would be:

... that in 1905 Lithuanian elites demanded that the Russian Empire create a country based on Ethnographic Lithuania, although ethnic Lithuanians were less than 30% of the proposed population? – jaksmata 15:03, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

Sure, sounds good, thanks! --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 23:05, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

I think for balance you will have to mention in the article that Poland's position was that it wanted to annex the whole of "ethnographic Lithuania" and give the Lithuanians there "a degree of autonomy", otherwise the account may look one-sided. Gatoclass (talk) 03:12, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Ummm, that's incorrect. Polish government recognized the Lithuanian right for self-determination - on territories where Lithuanians had a majority. While Poland proposed a federation to Lithuania (see Międzymorze and krajowcy), it never tried to annex it - even through it easily could (due to overwhelming numerical military superiority). Polish-Lithuanian War was fought only over the disputed border territories and involved a small part of the Polish Army, Poles never had any intention of taking over purely Lithuanian territories (Józef Piłsudski, supporter of the federation, in particular was vehemently opposed to any such idea due to his sympathy for Lithuanians, and his opponent, Roman Dmowski, had little need for non-Poles in his idea of a state).

"Never tried to annex it" is questionable in light of the Polish attempt to er, annex, all of Lithuania in August 1919 [1] - also "Pilsudski then tried in August 1919 to overthrow the Lithuanian government in Kaunas, but his plotters found no...." [2] (Timothy Snyder) This attempt is further referenced in Sejny Uprising. Complex issue, multiple tags on article. Novickas (talk) 16:04, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

That said, now that I reread Jaksmata hook, it is not entirely correct either, as the Great Seimas of Vilnius demanded wide autonomy, but not independence. Do also remember that the article and hook is not about Poland nor the Great Seimas of Vilnius but about the ideological concept of the "ethnographic Lithuania". --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 05:33, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

You're right, that was incorrect, I didn't read far enough into the reference. However, the reference does say that there was conflicting census data over Vilnius (which presumably the war was fought over) with Russian data showing a tiny Polish minority while German data showed a Polish majority. So if the war was fought over Vilnius, it appears that each side had census data showing their claim was the stronger. So perhaps that should be in the article instead. Gatoclass (talk) 06:57, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

On reflection, there's no way I am going to be able to resolve this as I am simply out of my depth on this topic, so I've handballed it to Wikipedia:WikiProject Lithuania and asked them to comment. If no-one there objects, then I'm happy to see the article run. Gatoclass (talk) 07:07, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

• Current hook is not supported by text; using one statistics but ignoring others is POV, article as it stands is OR, for other issues see talk, M.K. (talk) 08:14, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

I do object completely - this article has big factual errors. My major objection is that the article does not even try to explain what does "ethnographic" mean and why was it considered "ethnographic", and what exact territory was called Ethnographic Lithuania. I can only say, that the borders (supposedly changing, as presented in the article, although no timeline is presented) in the article clearly do not correspond with Ethnographic Lithuania, recognized as such since middle of 19th century.

Furthermore article mentions Ethnographic Lithuania in the lead and soon jumps into Lithuanian territorial aspirations evaluation without even providing a link between article’s name and the developments in 1918-1920, rushes into dubious not sourced allegations and WP:SYN on forced re-Lithuanization.

And even furthermore, the article is written without attributing one's evaluations, just providing them as facts (i.e. referencing, not attributing). I do have much more questions and objections, they are presented on article's talk page and no comprehensible answers are provided. --Lokyz (talk) 12:00, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

See also

• User:AlexNewArtBot/GoodSearchResult – This is an automated list of promising new articles generated by AlexNewArtBot (talk · contribs · logs).