Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement
For appeals: create a new section and use the template {{Arbitration enforcement appeal}}
See also: Logged AE sanctions
Important information Please use this page only to:
For all other problems, including content disagreements or the enforcement of community-imposed sanctions, please use the other fora described in the dispute resolution process. To appeal Arbitration Committee decisions, please use the clarification and amendment noticeboard. Only autoconfirmed users may file enforcement requests here; requests filed by IPs or accounts less than four days old or with less than 10 edits will be removed. All users are welcome to comment on requests except where doing so would violate an active restriction (such as an extended-confirmed restriction). If you make an enforcement request or comment on a request, your own conduct may be examined as well, and you may be sanctioned for it. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. (Word Count Tool) Statements must be made in separate sections. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as personal attacks, or groundless or vexatious complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions. To make an enforcement request, click on the link above this box and supply all required information. Incomplete requests may be ignored. Requests reporting diffs older than one week may be declined as stale. To appeal a contentious topic restriction or other enforcement decision, please create a new section and use the template {{Arbitration enforcement appeal}}.
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Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Dlthewave
Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found here. According to the procedures, a "clear, substantial, and active consensus of uninvolved editors" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action.
To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see WP:UNINVOLVED).
- Appealing user
- Dlthewave (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) – –dlthewave ☎ 17:33, 23 February 2019 (UTC)
- Sanctions being appealed
- DiscussionLog
- Logged warning by Sandstein
- Deletion of User:Dlthewave/Whitewashing_of_firearms_articles by Goldenring
- Administrators imposing the sanctions
Sandstein (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)
GoldenRing (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)
- Notification of those administrators
Statement by Dlthewave
- I feel that the closing statement
"Springee, Trekphiler, RAF910 and Dlthewave are warned not to misuse Wikipedia as a forum for polemic statements unrelated to Wikipedia, or attacking or vilifying groups of editors, persons, or other entities."
, which appears to be copy-and-pasted from WP:POLEMIC, is not an accurate assessment of consensus among the admins who participated in the discussion. Among other things, it implies that all four editors are equally at fault, which does not appear to be what the admins intended in their support for a logged warning. Although Goldenring did delete a page in my userspace under WP:POLEMIC, there was no discussion of my "attacking" or "vilifying" anyone and one admin even stated"Dlthewave is in fact engaged in appropriate editing and discussion."
There was no proposal to issue a logged warning to Dlthewave. (As a sidenote, I also feel that issuing a polemic warning to the other three involved editors instead of a warning related to talk page conduct was entirely out of left field, but that is something for them to address in their own appeals if they choose to pursue them.) - I feel that Goldenring's deletion of a page in my userspace, User:Dlthewave/Whitewashing_of_firearms_articles, has a chilling effect on my ability to document and share what I view as a long-term pattern in the gun control/gun crime topic area. This documentation plays an essential role in addressing current problems that are, in my opinion, a continuation of that pattern. My intention is to demonstrate a pattern and not to attack the individual editors who have been involved in that pattern. This removal is especially concerning when the "opposing" attacks and accusations which I documented are allowed to remain in full view at WP:Firearms and other talk pages. I would be open to discussing ways to do this that would not be viewed as an attack page, since similar pages maintained by other editors have passed MfD.
- Although this deletion may have been within Goldenring's editorial discretion, I would like it to be reviewed by other admins and preferably discussed by the community at Miscellany for Deletion. –dlthewave ☎ 17:33, 23 February 2019 (UTC)
- I've opened a Deletion Review here as suggested. –dlthewave ☎ 21:53, 24 February 2019 (UTC)
Statement by Sandstein
After rereading User:Dlthewave/Whitewashing of firearms articles, I agree with the appellant that the page was not (quite) a violation of WP:POLEMIC because it did not name editors and did not make allegations of misconduct, except as implied in the title ("whitewashing"), but that alone probably doesn't merit a warning. Because that page was the reason for my warning, I am striking it and recommend that GoldenRing (talk · contribs) undelete the page. A case can perhaps be made for its deletion on grounds of copyright / attribution, but that's a matter for the deletion process. Sandstein 18:37, 23 February 2019 (UTC)
- Per my comment here, I've also withdrawn the warning with respect to Springee. Clearly I should have read the enforcement request more carefully; sorry for that. I think that we should be more careful in the future as to whether or not to entertain enforcement requests directed at multiple editors. Sandstein 22:59, 23 February 2019 (UTC)
- In response to Bishonen, GoldenRing is correct that an action that has been labeled as an AE action may only be reviewed by way of the process described at WP:AC/DS#Appeals, that is, here at AE, or at AN or ARCA – but not at DRV. Bishonen, I recommend that you undo your temporary restoration of the page for the purpose of the DRV, or you may be desysopped for undoing an AE action out of process, as described at WP:AC/DS#Modifications by administrators. Any admin who acts on the currently ongoing DRV by overturning the deletion may likewise be desysopped. Sandstein 15:26, 25 February 2019 (UTC)
Statement by Springee
I'm clearly an involved editor. As I said before I think Dlthewave has a very strong POV on this topic and I frequently disagree with them. However, when push comes to shove, I don't think on good faith they viewed the page as a POLMIC. For what it's worth, I would support reverting Dlthewave's warning. Springee (talk) 19:12, 23 February 2019 (UTC)
Statement by GoldenRing
I disagree with Sandstein above and stand by this action. Dlthewave has stated right here that the purpose of this page is to document long-term problematic editing and policy is clear that such material is allowed only for dispute resolution and when used in a timely manner. I don't see the practical difference between, "so-and-so said this" (which the appellant seems to admit would be disallowed) and "someone said this and here's a link showing who it was" which is what they've actually done. GoldenRing (talk) 21:01, 23 February 2019 (UTC)
- @Bishonen: I'm not sure why you've suggested deletion review here. AE actions cannot be overturned at deletion review, only at AE, AN or ARCA. Have you also not just unilaterally undone an AE action? GoldenRing (talk) 10:19, 25 February 2019 (UTC)
- @Dlthewave: I will reiterate here what I've said on the deletion review: if you wish to use this material for valid dispute resolution (probably either an ANI or arbitration case request) and can outline a reasonable timeline for doing so (either on-wiki or privately by email), then I will self-revert my enforcement action. GoldenRing (talk) 10:32, 25 February 2019 (UTC)
- I would like to add, for what it's worth at this point, that I agree a formal warning to Dlthewave was not warranted. GoldenRing (talk) 12:07, 25 February 2019 (UTC)
- Please note that I have requested clarification from the arbitration committee regarding my deletion at WP:ARCA. GoldenRing (talk) 16:02, 25 February 2019 (UTC)
Statement by Simonm223
Marginally involved. I just found out about the removal of DLThewave's excellent summary of the challenges faced to bring firearms into compliance with WP:N including the way that a wikiproject has tried to present their MOS suggestions as policy. I've said as much at another venue, but this is definitely not a violation of WP:POLEMIC and should be undeleted for the valuable resource it is. Simonm223 (talk) 15:03, 25 February 2019 (UTC)
Statement by (involved editor 2)
Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by Dlthewave
- The matter of the deletion itself should be deferred to WP:DRV as that venue is much better equipped for such reviews. Whether or not the action itself was appropriate should be discussed here or in a more general manner at Wikipedia talk:Arbitration Committee (where Wikipedia talk:Arbitration Committee/Discretionary sanctions redirects). — Godsy (TALKCONT) 10:49, 25 February 2019 (UTC)
Result of the appeal by Dlthewave
- This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
- I commented in the initial thread, so I'm not sure whether my response should appear in this section, or above with GoldenRing's and Sandstein's. The deletion of Dlthewave's userspace subpage was arguably appropriate under WP:POLEMIC, and within reasonable admin discretion on GoldenRing's part. While I'm not sure I would have done the same, I'm comfortable leaving the page deleted. That said, I don't think a formal warning to Dlthewave is warranted; there wasn't really any support for such a warning amongst uninvolved admins in the previous thread, and it seems like overkill. The proper response to a potentially polemical userspace subpage is to delete it, which has been done. There wasn't any convincing evidence of a pattern of behavior warranting a logged warning on Dlthewave's part, at least not that I saw.
Regarding the logged warnings, I do take Springee's point that they perhaps paint the remaining 3 editors with an overly broad brush. There are clearly gradations of concerning behavior, with Springee on the mild end and Trekphiler/RAF910 showing a much more sustained and problematic battleground attitude. I'll leave it up to other admins whether we should modify the warning to exclude Springee, but it is worth considering while we're here. MastCell Talk 21:19, 23 February 2019 (UTC)
- Hmm. This is definitely a confusing situation. Reading the deleted page, it does seem borderline WP:POLEMIC so, perhaps, GoldenRing was right in deleting it. But, Dlthewave brings up a good point. If they do plan on making a future case then how else can they keep a record of the edits they see as forming a pattern? They could do it off-wiki of course, but isn't it better to be open about one's activities? While the deletion was within admin discretion perhaps, in cases of this nature, it is better to leave them as is with a note to the editor that they can't leave it sticking around for too long. Imo, the warning should be withdrawn. --regentspark (comment) 00:22, 24 February 2019 (UTC)
- I'm not sure about deleting the whitewashing essay; I can't seem to make up my mind. Suggest dlthewave take it to Wikipedia:Deletion review. An admin should be asked to temporarily undelete the page for purposes of discussion as soon as the DR is opened. But I don't have any trouble agreeing with Sandstein, Springee, MastCell, and Regentspark that dlthewave's warning should be withdrawn and struck from the log, and Sandstein has already done so. Bishonen | talk 01:11, 24 February 2019 (UTC).
- @Dlthewave:, I've temporarily undeleted your page for the deletion review. Bishonen | talk 22:01, 24 February 2019 (UTC).
- Your deletion can't be overturned at Deletion review, GoldenRing? Are you sure? In that case, obviously I suggested it because I didn't know any better. A bit of bad luck that apparently nobody who did know saw my suggestion for Deletion review here at AE, some 20 hours before Dlthewave actually opened the deletion review. I'm not sure what should be the next step, considering there is quite a lot of discussion at the review already, and some disagreement about how to proceed. But whatever action is taken, rest assured I won't feel "undermined" by it, as somebody suggested there. I'm personally fine with whatever, although I want to apologize to Dlthewave for potentially complicating his situation. As for "Have you also not just unilaterally undone an AE action?", no, I haven't. If you're referring to my temporary undeletion of the page, for the deletion review only and with the front page covered by a template, per the instructions here, I can only ask you not to be so silly. If you're talking about my giving Dlthewave bad advice, well, I've explained how that came about (=ignorance on my part). Bishonen | talk 12:54, 25 February 2019 (UTC).
- What an absolute joy you are to work with, Sandstein. It's a wonder more admins don't flock to help out at AE, where honest mistakes get met with immediate threats of desysopping. I do want to point out that there's a pretty clear consensus at DRV that the page doesn't violate WP:POLEMIC. @GoldenRing:, do I understand correctly that you are not going to recognize that consensus because it is being discussed on the Wrong Page(TM)? If this is the case, then I suppose we should tell everyone at DRV their opinions are not wanted there, re-delete the page, and then have the exact same discussion here. Or alternately, GR could rescind the deletion.... --Floquenbeam (talk) 15:59, 25 February 2019 (UTC)
- I not only agree that restoring the page for deletion review is not an abuse of process, but that deleting the page via AE would be an abuse of process. The way to remove userspace essays that are contrary to policy is MfD., and review of decisions there is at Deletion Review. DGG ( talk ) 06:53, 26 February 2019 (UTC)
- GoldenRing, do you intend to delete under AE every page in an area subject to DS (such as AP or PIA) that you think might arguably be the result of an action that violation an arb ruling,? DGG ( talk ) 17:16, 5 March 2019 (UTC)
- And I have just noticed, Sandstein, that your closing at the AE Discussion used the wording of the arb case "for polemic statements unrelated to Wikipedia, " but the entire discussion above about whether it violated POLEMIC is irrelevant, because the page is obviously related to WP. And the arb com wording continued " attacking or vilifying groups of editors, persons, or other entities. " I do not see any editors named on the page in question. It was discussing edits. (Of course the editors were implied, because the statements wee linked, but nothing about the editors is question is said on the page, only about the edits. DGG ( talk ) 17:16, 5 March 2019 (UTC)
GiantSnowman
GiantSnowman is warned to follow the letter of the restriction imposed by the committee carefully. Per the restriction, cases of sock-puppetry should be referred to another administrator if three escalating warnings are not practical or reasonable. GoldenRing (talk) 11:01, 6 March 2019 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning GiantSnowman
Reviewing the contributions for 124.62.79.115, it does not appear to me that this user is engaging only in vandalism. There appears to be a dispute regarding content and sourcing, and an allegation that some material added is a hoax. There has been little dialogue with this user and it is unclear to me whether the underlying problem is that the user is contributing inaccurate material in good faith, is contributing accurate material that lacks sources, or is deliberately perpetrating a hoax. In any case, this is not a vandalism-only account, and the three esacalating warnings required by the arbitration remedy were not placed. Reviewing the contributions for 5.151.172.213, this user is not engaging in vandalism. Rather, this user is also in a content dispute with GiantSnowman. The talk page for this user is blank, and I cannot find any explanation for the block beyond that in the block log. I surmise that the basis for the block is that the IP may be a sock of Woking123 (talk · contribs) (see Category:Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of Woking123 but note that GiantSnowman is the only contributor), but the evidence for this is far from conclusive, and the IP may well be another editor at a nearby location who shares (unsurprisingly) the same geographically-limited interests. In any event, this block is not based on vandalism, and the three escalating warnings required by the arbitration remedy were not placed.
None
N/A, not a discretionary sanctions request
For background, the block of 5.151.172.213 appears to be a continuation of a dispute over sourcing that started in 2016. See User talk:Woking123. GiantSnowman placed escalating blocks related to the sourcing dispute, and Woking123 evaded them, and has been indefblocked for socking. The problem however is that the initial blocks that led to the socking do not appear to be well-justified by blocking policy, both because the additions of unsourced material appear to be minor and in good faith, and because the articles involved are ones where GiantSnowman is (and was) a primary editor.
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:GiantSnowman&diff=885589888&oldid=885540349
Discussion concerning GiantSnowmanStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by LegacypacMy prior research suggested that GiantSnowman blocks users as socks of this one editor who made but a handful of edits several years ago. Users and IPs are blocked whenever anyone goes near a group of pages. There is no SPI case for this, just an accumulation of blocked IPs and registered users. I came to the conclusion there is but the weakest of connection between these users and he was abusing the block button. It seems highly unlikely that the alleged sockmaster would pursue such a minor issue for years on a few football pages. A clearcut ignoring of his restriction, doing exactly what lead to the whole ArbComm case. @Tony-he has a block button as an Admin. He used it to block an alleged sock of a user he as blocked alleged socks of before. If this is really the same user he violated his restrictions with a consecutive block. If it is not a sock he violated his restrictions with a warningless block. That it took several days to notice should not mean he will not block someone else on the same basis tomorrow. Only a block of GS or removal of his block button will stop the ongoing disruption by a rouge admin. Legacypac (talk) 04:48, 1 March 2019 (UTC) If blocking an Admin does not stop him from imposing blocks that is just wrong. If after a multi week ArbComm case we learn the authorized sanctions are unworkable that is just wrong. GS has no problem blocking random editors for very little or no reason. The incredible leeway being extended here to let him keep a clean block log is NOT how non-Admins are treated. We are blocked first, questions maybe asked later. Legacypac (talk) 12:53, 1 March 2019 (UTC)
@Jayron32 please don't be a troll. Address the substance of my point - that your interpretation of restriction is wrong or admit you did not read the restriction. Legacypac (talk) 07:01, 4 March 2019 (UTC) Statement by TgeorgescuI have no opinion upon whether the blocks are right. Anyway, if GS suspects sockpuppetry and the users engage in WP:TE or vandalism, I'd say block them on the spot, don't wait till they produce more damage. Tgeorgescu (talk) 04:47, 1 March 2019 (UTC) Statement by GriceheadAs the person requesting the block of 124.62.79.115 on WT:Footy, to give background this is a user who adds literally hundreds of invented football players and managers to historic squads, going back to 2016 across at least four static (or at least long term fixed) IP addresses. They occasionally add an innocuous edit to a football space which isn't vandalism, but well over 95% of their edits are of the type mentioned. They have often gone unnoticed for long periods due to the difficulty of disproving a negative on historic articles, but eventually they slip up and add one of their inventions as a 24th player in a 23 man international squad, causing the light to shine on their other efforts more closely. Never have any of the four IPs we've collectively discovered interacted on their talk pages. At least one of them (49.143.151.98) had escalating blocks placed and returned each time but the last, year long, block to continue the disruptive editing. By this time they'd moved to a new IP address. This was a good block. Gricehead (talk) 10:53, 1 March 2019 (UTC) Statement by WBGGood blocks per BK and Floq. Close this without letting this to go into the more heat than light territory. ∯WBGconverse 11:50, 1 March 2019 (UTC)
Statement by GiantSnowmanI'm always happy for my blocks to be reviewed. One was clear vandalism (as confirmed by Gricehead, and I understand the IP has now been re-blocked by Floquenbeam for the same behaviour) and the other is a clear sock per DUCK and Black Kite's comments. I'm currently on holiday so not really online over the next few days...read into the timing of this report what you will (yes, I will assume bad faith here, thanks, given that it would have been nice if Uninvited Company could perhaps have spoken to me first about the two blocks in question rather than running straight here trying to get me in trouble (which is what it appears like)). GiantSnowman 11:59, 1 March 2019 (UTC) Statement by FramNo comment on the vandal block, it seems from comments from others that this was an obvious vandal. About the Woking sock block: for starters, it is a clear sock, no doubt there. Whether the block of an obvious sock is within the letter or the spirit of the ArbCom restriction doesn't really concern me either. For this specific sockmaster though, I would urge GS to try a different approach. When I looked in the history of this sock, it was very unclear what their indef bvlockworthy behaviour was. Every edit by these socks I have looked at (socks from October 2018 or thereabouts, not earlier ones) looked to be perfectly factual. So I would urge GS, the next time he spots one of these socks, to approach it on the talk page and start a discussion about a way forward for both of them (e.g. pick one named account, no more IPs, and no more blocking), as the current situation is a huge timesink for both without any benefit for enwiki. Of course, if I'm missing stuff and the sock is actually inserting sneaky vandalism, copyvio's, ... then unblocking is not an option. Fram (talk) 13:50, 1 March 2019 (UTC)
Statement by Berean HunterIt is ironic that GS has been brought here for issues related to not communicating. Can someone show me where he was asked about this? The remedy requires GS to "respond promptly and civilly to queries about their Wikipedia-related conduct and administrative actions and to justify them when needed", but he wasn't given a chance. That bit of fact-finding would have helped to forego this whole report because the underlying incidents have since gained the endorsements of uninvolved admins that one issue is about a vandal, and the other as an IP sock. There is nothing actionable here. Oppose taking any action against GS. Since the committee does not make policy, I doubt that it was their intention when writing the remedy to override existing policies concerning banned editors and sockpuppets. I don't believe it was their intention to tie GS's hands by making him adhere to some fictitious system of escalated templates that is out of process. You don't warn banned editors or sockpuppets, you just block them. Those that are asserting that he should be placing warnings are incorrect. The language of the remedy may need to be corrected at ARCA to more accurately reflect the committee's intentions and help avoid confusion. Statement by isaaclRegarding the applicability of enforcing remedies from an arbitration case: as described in arbitration case 2015-10, under the remedy "Common sense in enforcement", administrators should not second-guess the remedies and corresponding enforcement actions issued by the arbitration committee. Thus on principle, I don't see staleness as a reason not to enforce a violation of terms by which an editor is I also agree that it is not reasonable to expect warnings to be given to obvious socks, as the standard response is revert, block, and ignore. isaacl (talk) 21:18, 1 March 2019 (UTC)
Statement by LevivichAt Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/GiantSnowman/Proposed decision#GiantSnowman admonished and placed under review, the arbitrators have a discussion that begins with Result concerning GiantSnowman
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Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Volunteer Marek
The sanction is overturned by a clear consensus of the uninvolved administrators commenting. GoldenRing (talk) 16:12, 4 March 2019 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found here. According to the procedures, a "clear, substantial, and active consensus of uninvolved editors" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action. To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see WP:UNINVOLVED).
Statement by Volunteer MarekIn this recent WP:AE request concerning another editor I made a couple statements concerning the motivation of the original poster (Icewhiz) and their reasons for filing their request. On the basis of my statements about the original poster, Sandstein issued a 6-month topic ban from Eastern European topics, although he also claimed that my comments "have at best a remote bearing on the diffs that are the subject of this enforcement request". This part of the rationale was demonstrably false, as almost all of my comment addressed substance of the request (my points were even numbered to correspond to the filer's points). This was noted by other administrators (User:Drmies, User:Black Kite) who responded to Sandstein:
At that AE request, Sandstein did not respond to my explanation. Other admin also disagreed vehemently with Sandstein's actions.
However, without any response to the other admins, Sandstein nonetheless closed the AE report with the topic ban still in place, less than 8 hours after Newyorkbrad's last comment. My first reason for appealing the ban is then simply that Sandstein's action was against clear WP:CONSENSUS and he did not provide a sufficient rationale for it. I understand that since the area is under discretionary sanctions, a unilateral action such as this, strictly speaking is not against policy. Just because you can do something does not mean you should. If this was a disagreement between Sandstein and one other administrator, then yeah, sure. But here we have FOUR administrators explicitly and strongly opposing Sandstein, and NONE supporting him. Yet, he went ahead and did it regardless, ignoring the input of others. If this was article space and someone acted in this manner, then it'd be THEM who'd be looking at a sanction. As a result I DID ask Sandstein on his talk page to rescind the topic ban [3] per #1 here. Sandstein responded with a "have you stopped beating your wife" kind of question to me, which was worded in a way that no matter how I answered, I would be admitting to having done something bad. I responded. Sandstein replied that he was "not entirely convinced" and that "you do not convince me that you understand why I considered it necessary to impose the sanction". I decided to be entirely truthful in my appeal, and rather than pretending falsely that I did understand, I explicitly stated that I did NOT in fact understand why it was necessary. Of course, as exemplified by the four admins discussed above, I wasn't the only one. It seems that NOBODY but Sandstein understood why it was necessary. In the end however, Sandstein magnanimously reduced the topic ban he imposed on me against consensus to one month rather than six. I sincerely thank him for that. He also generously told me that I was free to appeal the reduced topic ban. Thanks for that as well. So here I am. Here is the bottom line, and I'm going to be honest. I've been around long enough to know that the way to get a sanction removed is to grovel before administrator power and hope for the best in the ensuing Struggle session. I can't do that. I disagree with the topic ban and I see no reason for it. Obviously I am not the only one, since the topic ban was imposed against strong consensus from FOUR other admins. I do believe that the majority of my original comment was non-problematic and specifically addressed the issues raised in the WP:AE report. However, it is true that the two sentences directed at Icewhiz's motivations, and my description of him, Francois Robere and Yanniv as a "tag team" were inappropriate and I should not have made them. If given a chance I would have struck them or removed them. I made a mistake. But so did Sandstein in imposing the topic ban. I am here admitting that I made a mistake. Since the crux of the issue was my comments at an WP:AE request from Icewhiz, I can totally understand if the one month ban is converted into a restriction on me commenting on Icewhiz's WP:AE requests. Most likely there will be plenty of opportunities for me to violate such a restriction in the future and I promise not to do so. Such a restriction would be both fair and relevant to the nature of the original violation. Of course, I'd rather not be sanctioned at all. So if possible, I will simply promise to refrain from commenting on other editors' motivations when they file requests at the drama boards, and I will not describe groups of other editors as "tag teams". I'd appreciate it if the discussion of this appeal stayed relevant to the nature of the appeal rather than digress into various red-herrings (since that's kind of how we got here in the first place) Thanks.Volunteer Marek (talk) 07:33, 3 March 2019 (UTC) Re:Sandstein - as already noted, yes, discretionary sanctions can be imposed without consensus. That does not mean they should be, especially if consensus is overwhelmingly against them. "I do it just because I can" is a terrible rationale for, well, anything, Sandstein. And no, the appeal is not based solely on the fact the sanction was against consensus. The appeal is based on the fact that the sanction was INAPPROPRIATE and did not provide adequate justification as reflected by consensus judgement Regarding Icewhiz's statement. I'm going to keep this to the minimum. Icewhiz, if you truly feel those diffs are "bad" then go ahead and open up a separate WP:AE request. NONE of them concern this appeal. To quote Sandstein, they "have at best a remote bearing on the subject of this appeal request". I'll be more than happy to respond to them in the most appropriate and deserving manner if you do choose to open up a separate WP:AE request.Volunteer Marek (talk) 08:50, 3 March 2019 (UTC) (if any admins DOES wish me to reply to Icewhiz's aspersions here I will be more than happy to do so - for now I just wish to note that "the editor" whom Icewhiz is citing approvingly in #4 of his comment [4] is User:Kaiser von Europa who was indefinetly banned by User:Salvio giuliano for making violent threats and pushing neo-Nazi POV back in 2013 [5]) Volunteer Marek (talk) 08:52, 3 March 2019 (UTC) Icewhiz accuses me of making "aspersions" by saying the anon-IP is a sock puppet of a banned user and that there is no SPI case for this user. Yeah, there's no SPI case for that user because they were making threats and WP:OUTING and stuff had to get oversighted and the SPI would've just played into that. As the block summary states, you can email Salvio for the relevant info. There's no doubt that this is KvE. WHY are we talking about this on an appeal that has NOTHING to do with that diff or user?????? Volunteer Marek (talk) 09:31, 3 March 2019 (UTC) (and actually THERE IS INDEED support in a KvE SPI archive [6] for the fact that the user in question is KvE, contrary to Icewhiz's assertion. Click any of the blocked IPs in the SPI. Like this one. Click geolocate. Then click on the contributions of the anon account Icewhiz is citing approvingly [7]. Compare the nature of the edits. If there's still any doubt, click geolocate. It's him. Statement by SandsteinThis appeal should be declined. I had written a longer comment, but then my browser tab crashed. I'll therefore only note that the only argument made as grounds for the appeal is that my topic ban in response to Volunteer Marek's AE statement was "against consensus". This is an inapplicable argument because discretionary sanctions do not depend on consensus, but are explicitly a matter of an individual administrator's discretion. For the rest, I'll refer to my conversation with Volunteer Marek (permalink) on my talk page. Sandstein 08:19, 3 March 2019 (UTC)
Statement by IcewhizConcurrent to the AE, VM has made a number of sanctionable actions elsewhere which were more serious than his conduct at the AE. I believe presenting this evidence at the appeal is relevant, as filing this evidence in a separate AE request would be a re-discussion of the same issue:
Editing Holocaust history requires careful use of good RSes. Alluding to sock-puppetry, not discussing ("And the source is reliable" not being beyond a mere semblance of a discussion - in the other 2 - no discussion at all), and inserting WP:REDFLAG material after it has been challenged (and without verification) is not careful editing. Icewhiz (talk) 08:25, 3 March 2019 (UTC)
Statement by Malik ShabazzPlease forgive me, Volunteer Marek, if my comments kill your worthy appeal. What kind of "goods" does Icewhiz have on Sandstein that would cause an administrator to blindly take the side of an editor who is extremely disruptive in so many topic areas subject to sanctions? Sandstein topic-banned me from the Arab-Israeli conflict almost a year ago in an equally egregious exercise of egomania, despite a similarly strong consensus against the block.[9][10] Then he took Icewhiz at his word and "warned" me for a topic-ban "violation" that occurred before he imposed the ban.[11] Why does Sandstein act like he is corrupt and incompetent? Does anybody give a fuck, or will the only response be to block me for making an accurate personal attack? — MShabazz Talk/Stalk 22:26, 3 March 2019 (UTC) Statement by Piotrus(I can't figure out if I am involved or uninvolved... :>) Anyway, keeping it short this time:
Statement by (involved editor 2)Statement by (involved editor 2)Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by Volunteer Marek
Result of the appeal by Volunteer Marek
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Arbitration enforcement action appeal by SashiRolls
Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found here. According to the procedures, a "clear, substantial, and active consensus of uninvolved administrators" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action.
To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see WP:UNINVOLVED).
- Appealing user
- SashiRolls (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) – ~~~
- Sanction being appealed
- "SashiRolls is indefinitely prohibited from commenting on AE requests to which they are not a party." (16 December 2016) source
- Administrator imposing the sanction
- Timotheus Canens (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)
- Notification of that administrator
- [14]
Statement by SashiRolls
Recently, I saw somebody appealing on this board and I thought back on the fact that I've been banned for 750+ days from this board for my comment in Sagecandor v. Tlroche. That effectively stopped me from commenting. I'd also recently received some IP abuse ("fascist" diff) and from a sock named Dan the Plumber (more name calling:§) who turned out to have serious Syria issues and to be a sockpuppet of Sayerslle. The person who exposed this sockpuppet now appears to have left Wikipedia in disgust. Finally, a recent case seemed to suggest that here and now the feeling might be that it is excessive to prohibit people who provide actual evidence of an established pattern of behavior from speaking at AE. Two people have suggested making my case here.
Here are the details of the original case: on Saturday, 3 December 2016, Sagecandor insinuated I was a "Russian propaganda agent" at NPOV/N, while misrepresenting my contributions. (diff) On 10 December 2016, someone I do not know opened an AN/I case about Sagecandor and left me TP-notification that they had done so. In that AN/I case, the contributor currently known as GMG insinuated (in small letters) that I should be banned from all noticeboards for asking Cirt why they were so reticent to respond to another contributor's questions about their pre-Sagecandor identity. (NB: occurrence 20 of 34 for Timothyjosephwood at AN/I in that archive: diff. )
On 15 December 2016 Sagecandor accused Tlroche of being disruptive for creating a reference sub-section with {{reflist}}, then {{reflist-talk}} at NPOV/N (diffs 10-12), and for responding to SC having falsely accused them of "forging signatures" in diffs 4-5. At this point, Cirt had brought 3 cases to AE as Sagecandor in the space of a week and I thought I should provide diffs showing that 1) they were extremely averse to being transparent about their history and 2) they were making things up about the person they were currently prosecuting. I did not comment in the other two AE cases they had brought. (Cf. archive 204) As a result of the above, on 16 December I was indefinitely prohibited from commenting on AE requests to which I am not a party. I have never broken this prohibition. Within ten days of receiving that prohibition, I was blocked from en.wp entirely when Cirt prosecuted me with his Sagecandor sockpuppet.
Over a week ago, I asked Timotheus Canens to reconsider whether he thought his current ban was justified or not. He did not wish to do so (edit summary: no). I asked him for diffs supporting the view that a topic-ban from AE was necessary or desirable. I have, to date, not received any.
I have no intention of "casting aspersions" on anyone, nor do I have a "battleground mentality". I've made 2500 edits or so since returning around Toussaint (2018), quite a few of which were in controversial areas editing alongside editors whose reputations for, let's say, having "strong opinions" are well established. Two pages that I was the principal author of have also appeared on the en.wp front page (both nominated by others) during that time. The time-consuming process of reliving some of these moments to fill out the form here has been a bit of a wp:pain, which went beyond the bureaucratic question of filling out forms.
It is entirely possible that I will never have reason to comment on an AE case that I am not a named party to. In other words, I believe I wandered into the middle of a heated battle surrounding Cirt's mission as an undercover editor without knowing what I was getting into, and will seek to avoid having that happen again. I have no intention of using AE as a soapbox in the way that it has been used in the past. I would like my full wiki-zen-ship privileges restored, and have the last active sanction against me removed about the CIRT affair, as it serves no purpose and discourages me from participating in this legendary land of socks and honey.
My wikiscans: en | fr (this data is based on the "individual edit" rather than "substantive edit")
Thank you for reading this, and sincere apologies for any damage I've done: I make awkward editing mistakes. Too many. that's why my edit totals are so high, because I fix it when I make a mistake. Unfortunately prior to 2016 my experience with mediawiki was overwhelmingly on a personal wiki where nobody cares if you make 8 edits to get a paragraph right. I'll try to improve in this area.
- MrX, you were the first commenter on
Sagecandorv. Tlroche and on this request. Concerning your comment generally, I'll just add these two WMF diffoscopies : (x-Sage) | (x-Snoog). Association is no crime. Demonstrating one isn't either. - For the connection with your AN/I case, please glance back at this talk page section that
Dan the Plumberopened on the BLP we recently ran into each other on. The WP:DEWitude of that BigBlueTM 4-word-link-button that Dan added about the chemical attack on Tulsi Gabbard's BLP is a question we should probably ask about on the TP one of these days. But, yes, this is indeed the same Dan whose edits the long-term editor you were seeking to have indeffed was reverting. I opened my statement with links to their peppy PA. I sekritly suspect (assuming nothing) that the anon. IP may have beenDaniella the Electricianbut I've been wrong before. - Your typing is convincing, though. Letter by letter you've re-scoped a reminder as an accusation (which I grant, magnified 200x through spectral diffoscopy, it does rather resemble... that's why I provided a link to document the reason for my concern in the first place). Your decontextualized zoom-blur-up of (go tempora, go SnooX!) into a 2nd degree snark-crime is fair enough, too, I suppose. Is there a don't joke with the regulars! essay somewhere? In any case, that page has calmed down a bit, don't you think? On a more personal note, I had no intention of bringing up your actions on Ms. Gabbard's BLP or your recent actions at ANI, as I am not bringing any "request for action" against you. Since you're here though, I'll send you some wikiwiki aloha!
- Cullen: I first read the comment I alluded to about wildebeests extracted from its original context off-wiki, so yes there is a sinking edge to its echo. I was just stealing BHG's word (beasts, actually) to describe "attack socks" (which she was not) and trying unsuccesfully, I fear, to morph/anonymize her into Dahl's famous "the BFG". In point of fact, though, I had assumed the comment had been excerpted from a completely unrelated recent AN/I drama-fest. Instead, it was said at AN in still another completely unrelated case; as it turns out, one you were involved in. I actually didn't know that because I'm not "watch-listing" (subscribed to) either board. I hope you will take this into consideration.
- Jorm: I believe part of why admins found me annoying back in the post-2016 landscape was the number of times I gnomed my statements at AE, that is why I've done my gnoming in my sandbox before posting here. I also felt/feel it likely that defending
Hidden Tempogot me in trouble with some admins. As for why I was blocked, specifically, on this page related to Sagecandor, I think only the blocking administrator could say. And I hope he does.
- More generally, thanks to everyone, too, who has spent time reading through this appeal carefully and taken the time to comment.
- Levivich, Mr Ernie, JFG, I really appreciate knowing there are some people out there who think I'm worth doing that for. :D SashiRolls t · c 19:08, 9 March 2019 (UTC)
Statement by Timotheus Canens
Statement by MrX
Admins should duly decline this appeal. There is no benefit to SashiRolls commenting in AE requests for which he is not a party. The comments in this AE request by SashiRolls were indicative of a WP:BATTLEGROUND mentality with respect to SageCandor/Cirt.
As evidence that SashiRolls continues to take a battleground approach with content disputants, I give you these diffs:
For context, this discussion at ANI involved me reporting a user for violating 1RR community sanction restriction on an article about a chemical attack in Syria; an article which SashiRolls was not involved with, in any way. SashiRolls simply followed me to ANI to cause trouble because he did not like the direction that another content dispute was taking on an entirely different article.
If that is not enough, I invite you read his recent snipes on talk:Tulsi Gabbard directed toward Snooganssnoogans and me. If necessary, I will provide diffs of some of the more aggressive comments, however this one stands out as being a not-so-clever attempt at accusing Snooganssnoogans and me of tag team editing, which he did previously here.- MrX 🖋 21:46, 7 March 2019 (UTC)
Statement by Mr Ernie
There's really no reason for this sanction to remain in effect. The whole thing revolved around SashiRolls and Sagecandor. Since Sagecandor has since been blocked, this sanction can be removed. It was enacted solely because of the perceived disruption at AE's by and about Sagecandor (which SashiRolls was actually right about). If any problematic behavior resumes, then it will be easy to re-apply the ban. People deserve second chances. Mr Ernie (talk) 09:41, 8 March 2019 (UTC)
Statement by JFG
SashiRolls wrote a balanced and thoughtful reflection on what happened two years ago. In hindsight he was correct about Sagecandor, who I remember as a highly battleground-y and tendentious editor. Outside of this old dispute, SashiRolls is a constructive editor who manages to keep a healthy distance from his own point of view, while pointing out lapses in neutrality at various contentious articles. The sanction should be lifted without prejudice. — JFG talk 18:41, 8 March 2019 (UTC)
Statement by (involved editor 2)
Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by SashiRolls
- First:
I think some consideration should be given to the fact that SashiRolls was actually right about the socking concerns.
— User:Boing! said Zebedee- Second, I've been editing with Sashi at Yellow vests movement for a few months and it's been very enjoyable. Sashi is fun to work with. I think anyone checking out Talk:Yellow vests movement/Archive 1 and Talk:Yellow vests movement will see it hasn't all been rainbows and unicorns there: we've had good-faith disagreements as well as vandalism, edit warring, POV pushing, claims of anti-semitism, and more wikiwonders, but even during the high-drama times, I've never known Sashi to be anything other than a helpful, productive editor. He's also answered my questions, helped me out and encouraged me as a new editor. Two years is a long time to ban anyone from anything. I hope admin will accept and remove Sashi's remaining sanction. His record since being unblocked, combined with his record at the sister wiki projects before that, demonstrates he deserves to be an editor in good standing here. That, and what Boing said. Leviv ich 04:32, 8 March 2019 (UTC)
I don't see a single thing in this appeal that indicates that Sashirolls understands why this restriction was applied, nor any kind of comment about what they will do to change their behavior going forward.--Jorm (talk) 07:02, 8 March 2019 (UTC)
- Although this comment: "Is this just tigers churning in the night, or is it another sign of what the BHG has identified as a wiki-wildebeest syndrome?" may have a certain literary merit, it is indicative of an ongoing battleground mentality. Accordingly, I cannot support this appeal at this time. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 07:15, 8 March 2019 (UTC)
- I came to the opposite conclusion reading that comment. The heading, "Collateral damage", and the preceding lines, "Looking back into this matter a few days later I see that it (or events surrounding it) seems to have had the effect of causing the retirement of one of the people who made a statement (Fitzcarmalan). This does not seem to me a positive outcome..." made me understand it to be a statement of reflection, sympathy and lament, not battleground. Leviv ich 14:49, 8 March 2019 (UTC)
Result of the appeal by SashiRolls
- This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
- Judging by the sound of crickets in this section I'd wager that I'm not the only admin who has had trouble building up the motivation to wade through the appeal above. It's like, "Here's a contentious meandering wall of text. Please grant this appeal so you can get more."</exaggeration> All I really want to see in an appeal is an understanding of what the problem was and a plan to fix it. Bonus points if it doesn't blast through the 500-word limit.
- Briefly addressing the substance of the appeal, I can't say I'm convinced that the battleground mentality is gone, but perhaps my view is being colored by my previous interaction with them [15] where they asked me to investigate 5-month-old "aspersions" made by an ideological opponent. ~Awilley (talk) 18:24, 11 March 2019 (UTC)
- I generally agree with Awilley. SashiRoll's request strikes me as battleground-y enough that I'd decline the appeal. While it might not be battleground-y enough to create a new topic ban, it's battleground-y enough to give me reason to think removing the restriction would be unwise. It might be a more difficult decision if this was a topic ban preventing them from editing particular topics, but this is just preventing them from jumping into unrelated AE threads. --Floquenbeam (talk) 19:14, 11 March 2019 (UTC)
Volunteer Marek
No action taken because a motion that would make this request unenforceable now has the support of a majority of arbitrators. Sandstein 15:18, 11 March 2019 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Volunteer Marek
The user broke 1RR two times in two different articles --Shrike (talk) 06:39, 8 March 2019 (UTC) @GoldenRing: VM has inserted WP:UNDUE paragraph into BLP article [18] and I have reverted later I saw him again appearing on my own custom watchlist [19] --Shrike (talk) 14:06, 8 March 2019 (UTC)
[20] --Shrike (talk) 06:39, 8 March 2019 (UTC) Discussion concerning Volunteer MarekStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Volunteer MarekNone of these articles had a 1RR notice. On none of these articles does the 1RR notification pops up when you make an edit. The edits themselves are not related to P-I except in the sense that *everything* related to Israel is related to P-I. The edits are about internal Israeli politics. I would also like administrators to consider the nature of the edits. The info I added to these articles is *very well sourced*. The party in question has been described as the Israeli version of the Ku Klux Klan ("Rabbi Rick Jacobs, president of the Union for Reform Judaism. “I don’t think it’s an exaggeration to say it’s the equivalent in the United States of the KKK being welcomed into the corridors of power."). User:ShimonChai removed the well sourced info with spurious edit summaries, under the pretense that these weren't "inline citations" (they were). The same user has also build templates [21] for the party in question [22] as well as for the related Lehava movement (which has been described by the Anti-Defamation League as "extremely abusive, racist, inflammatory, and violent", and which has carried out terrorist attacks). I don't know if that indicates any connection or support for the party but it does raise eyebrows (just like if a user main contributions was making fancy KKK logos). User:Number 57 removed the info because... well, I'm not exactly clear as to why. Something something Nick Griffin. They also for some reason pointed to the article on the British fascist BNP as an excuse to remove this info, even though the BNP article in the very first sentence refers to it as "fascist". All of Number 57's justifications for their reverts have been vague and same for the discussion on talk ("get consensus!" which is usually an indication of "I can't say why this edit is wrong WP:IJUSTDONTLIKEIT). To be fair, I think Number 57 had a legitimate disagreement over *where* in the article the info belonged, although I did find their inability or unwillingness to articulate their reasons frustrating. User:Shrike him/herself has made problematic revert at Benjamin Netanyahu. The situation there is even more ridiculous. Right now, the biggest story of Israeli politics is that Netanyahu has made an alliance with this far-right, racist, "Israeli KKK", party in order to get a majority in the Knesset, in order to stave off potential fall out from the indicitments for corruption and bribery which have been filed against him. There is at least THIRTY stories on this in Haaretz. There is at least THIRTY stories on this in Jerusalem Post. There is at least FORTY, or even FIFTY stories on this in Times of Israel. It's been covered extensively in New York Times, Washington Post, Los Angeles Times, The Atlantic, Time Magazine, New Yorker, ABC News, Tablet, Forward and scores of other publications. Basically ANY mainstream source has covered this story. Yet, Shrike removes the info with the edit summary that claims this is a "trivial detail" [23]. That is ... mind boggling. It'd be one thing if they rewrote or cut down some of the text, but wholesale removal of what is the biggest story of Israeli politics is clearly over-the-top POV pushing.Volunteer Marek (talk) 14:26, 8 March 2019 (UTC) As for Icewhiz's spurious accusations - hey there Icewhiz, here again? - yes, I used bare URLs. This done for two reasons. First, we have bots that will come in and fill in the citation templates. Second, I often put in bare URLs initially, then come back and fill them in a little later. But here I was reverted before I had a chance to do so. I did in fact do that in the second edit [24]. I was still reverted. The whole "citations" thing was being used as an excuse. Ok, now, Icewhiz, can you explain how you can in good faith refer to THE major political story in Israel as "minor deal"? Volunteer Marek (talk) 14:36, 8 March 2019 (UTC) User:GoldenRing " that in itself shows that 1RR was in force at the time the edits " <-- I'm not clear on how the fact that the notices were added AFTER the fact show that 1RR was in force at the time of the edits. I'll be honest. In every other area under ACDS, no notice means no restriction. I do realize that somehow P-I topics are different but who the hey can remember all that, especially if you're not all that active in the area? If I knew 1RR was in force, I wouldn't have broken it, since breaking 1RR is, well, just stupid. It's kind of ridiculous for there to be a situation where "we put these sekrit sanctions in place, but we're gonna tell you about them, except for a brief mention eight freakin' months ago which you are required to remember because you got nothing else going on in your life OR on Wikipedia". Who the hell can remember some message someone left on their page eight months ago??? Also, I would like to very much point out that I do NOT have "a sanctions history approaching the length of the A1". In almost fifteen years of editing I've had a few sanctions ... three... four maybe, plus a couple blocks for mouthing off to admins from before 2012. Now, I'm not gonna hold that statement against you and I understand why you might think that; it's true I *am* always being dragged to AE by someone or other. So it may *seem* like I have been sanctioned frequently, but that is simply not the case (although I guess it depends on your definition of "length of A1"). Out of all my trips to AE, at least as of the last time I crunched the numbers, 70% resulted in no action, 23% resulted in a big ol' WP:BOOMERANG to the filing party and only 7% resulted in sanction and that's not even considering those which I got successfully appealed. I choose to edit controversial areas. In good part because some of my expertise is in that areas. But the fact that people try to use WP:AE to win content disputes is not my fault. Volunteer Marek (talk) 10:27, 9 March 2019 (UTC) And seriously folks... and admins, it seems even arbitrators aren't aware that this works the way it does (i.e. applies w/o a template) and are surprised when they find out - see User:Doug Weller's statement over at the Arb motion Sandstein metions: "I've always assumed that it doesn't automatically apply and only applies if the {{ArbCom Arab-Israeli enforcement}} is added to the talk page and the edit notice ArbCom Arab-Israeli editnotice added to the article". [25]. If you set up rules in a stupid way, then yeah, people will accidentally break them. This is like putting in a stop sign but placing it behind a big ol' tree to make sure no one sees it and then saying "but we announced eight months ago that we'd have a stop sign there".Volunteer Marek (talk) 10:40, 9 March 2019 (UTC) Statement by uninvolved DannyS712I just want to note that for the record, I alerted Volunteer Marek using {{AE-notice}} in Special:Diff/886743438. I have no connection to this enforcement request; I just didn't know if Special:Diff/886742901 met the requirements. --DannyS712 (talk) 06:51, 8 March 2019 (UTC) Statement by OIDMarek edits with correctly cited material. Reverted by editor claiming citation is wrong (no comment about the content) Marek reinserts (and on the latter occasion with proveit) showing nothing wrong with citation. Instead of expressing dismay that someone who edits in a controversial area is clearly being fucked with by tag-teaming, perhaps you should do something about the misleading edit summaries, tendentious and disruptive editing. Only in death does duty end (talk) 10:54, 8 March 2019 (UTC)
Statement by IcewhizBeyond the possible BLP issues, VM inserted and reverted (in the batch above): Zvi_Sukkot insertion, Zvi_Sukkot revert1, Otzma insertion, Otzma revert1 bare URLs as citations which generally, per Wikipedia:Citing sources, is something that we avoid. This is far from "correctly cited material". Icewhiz (talk) 11:01, 8 March 2019 (UTC)
Statement by Number 57Whilst I think Marek was being a bit of jerk here, I don't believe this is an ARBPIA violation. I am fully aware of sanctions in that topic area, but I saw this as a dispute over domestic Israeli politics rather than being conflict-related. Neither article was tagged with the ARBPIA notice until after this had stopped. If I had thought this was conflict-related, I wouldn't have reverted more than once. I also find the tag-teaming accusation above to be inaccurate. Firstly, with regards to the edits on Otzma Yehudit, I did not remove Marek's additions (as ShimonChai had), but instead moved them to a different part of the article (in this edit I actually reinstated the racism claim after Shimon had removed it). Secondly, I also pointed out to Shimon that their accusation of Marek not using inline citations was incorrect. Number 57 11:44, 8 March 2019 (UTC) Statement by GPRarmirez
Specially considering he's a known POV pusher, previously banned for engaging in a mailing list with this purpose. Also recently topic banned. But with admin friends. This is just another case of last year's would-be-sanction Saturnalia0 (talk) 23:55, 11 March 2019 (UTC) Statement by ShimonChaiAm going to invoke WP:VOLUNTEER, and probably stop editing for awhile. ShimonChai (talk) Statement by RolandRI am surprised to see that Icewhiz thinks that an article about an Israeli political party is "clearly conflict related", since barely a week ago s/he gave the contrary advice to a non-edit confirmed editor asking where it was permissible to edit: "What yes... Israeli politics (as long as not extremely conflict related".[28]. If such articles are not covered by ARBPIA for edits by new accounts, then neither are they covered by the IRR ban. RolandR (talk) 17:22, 8 March 2019 (UTC) Statement by Nableezy@Sandstein: it seems Kafkaesque to sanction an editor for reverts to pages prior to a notice that a 1RR applies to that page being placed. Whether or not you are allowed to sanction somebody is a different question to whether or not you should sanction somebody. If somebody is editing a page with a good faith belief that it is not a part of the conflict and the 1RR does not apply and there is nothing to notify him that it does then I dont think they should be sanctioned for it. Hell, an admin violated the 1RR at the same article, and I dont think anybody is claiming that Number57 was acting in bad faith in assuming that this article was not covered under the sanctions. What should actually be punished is acting in bad faith, such as bringing a complaint about a 1RR violation where all the reverts took place before anybody ever claimed that the 1RR applied. All that is necessary here is a formal declaration that the 1RR applies or it does not (and personally I am of the view that most political party articles in this topic area are being included in the topic area even when they should not be). nableezy - 18:43, 8 March 2019 (UTC) Statement by (username)Result concerning Volunteer Marek
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