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Please do not remove this invisible timestamp. See WT:ERRORS and WP:SUBSCRIBE. - Dank (push to talk) 01:24, 29 September 2022 (UTC)

Today's FA

"improve his leadership" is a nonsense phrase that should be replaced with "consolidate power" or something along those lines. 174.89.130.46 (talk) 00:21, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

Not sure whether you are watching this page, Wehwalt. Schwede66 05:58, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

Errors with "In the news"

• Typhoon Yagi death toll rise to 375 HurricaneEdgar 21:30, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

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(September 13, today)

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General discussion

Parliament expenses row

I hate to be pedantic but it says the British Parliament, i know that that's what it's normally called by most people but technically it is the UK Parliament as Northern Irish MPs sit there as well. Northern Ireland is not part of Britain it is part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. I know im being pedantic but it would give me peace of mind if it was changed and i cant do it myself being no good at these things!Willski72 (talk) 17:09, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Fixed. --BorgQueen (talk) 17:40, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Thankyou!Willski72 (talk) 17:43, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Although, equally if not more pedanticly, "British" is the adjectival form of "United Kingdom", there being no "Unitedkingdomish". "Britain" is ambiguous and may or may not be considered to include Northern Ireland. The change, though, cleared things up nicely. Bazza (talk) 12:39, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

You can see why they left it at British cant you, "UnitedKingdomish" would take far to long to say! Dont ask me why because i cant tell you but for some reason Northern Ireland is not part of "Britain" (UK instead) but the people in Northern Ireland are "British", even if they dont want to be!Willski72 (talk) 17:06, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

"Britain" is the island; it's been known as that for an awful lot longer than the United Kingdom has existed. J Milburn (talk) 17:09, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Correct but Northern Ireland is not on the island of Britain (or Britannia as it was called by the Romans) it is on the island of Ireland. They are both in the British Isles though. Northern Irish people are called British by convention and because it is easier and simpler (and many see themselves as such).Willski72 (talk) 20:15, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

I doubt all of the Northern Irish would self-identify as British! I wasn't sure if you realised, as you said "Dont ask me why because i cant tell you". J Milburn (talk) 20:17, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

I know they arent, in fact its probably (very rough figures) 60% would call themselves British 40% would call themselves Irish. The point of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland was to unite all the kingdoms of the British Isles together which was done in the Act of Union at the beginning of the 19th Century. Mainland Britain had been united 100 years before that as Britain. It all got complicated in Ireland with the fight for Independance etc and it was decided that Ulster (Northern Ireland) would stay part of the United Kingdom while the rest of Ireland would form its own Republic. The Republic of Ireland is within the British Isles but is no longer part of the United Kingdom (they would call themselves Irish), by contrast Northern Ireland is still part and its now the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Everyone on the British mainland is British, there is no word for "UnitedKingdomish" and yet Northern Ireland is linked with that MORE than with Ireland. So the general consensus (not everyone agrees) is to call them British as well (even if a large minority dont wont to be!)Willski72 (talk) 20:40, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

• (Cough!) *Great* Britain. The island is Great Britain. There are other, lesser, Britains. I think Willski72's point about the British Isles is pertinent; it's why the Northern Irish can be called "British" despite not living on Great Britain. And of course, they can also be called Irish, but Ireland is another potential mine-field for Wikidrama. And on that note, I'll slink off before I get embroiled in any drama. Cheers! This flag once was red^propaganda_deeds 20:46, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

• "But the people in Northern Ireland are "British", even if they dont want to be!" Try telling that to Seamus Heaney... even the BBC doesn't go down that road. --candle•wicke 13:52, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Alright let me put it slightly differently. The people in Northern Ireland are seen in international circles as British, even if they dont want to be. I later pointed out the very rough and simplified percentages of agree and disagree. I see your point and i apologise for not elaborating more clearly on the point.Willski72 (talk) 18:08, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

You might be right. I don't tend to get involved in this type of drama either. However, do you possess a reliable source for all of these statements which are potentially questionable? Or even a source? "Probably" doesn't really work very well here for anything... --candle•wicke 22:26, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Youre quite right and the main problem with pretty much anything to do with British constitutional matters is that there are virtually no sources that could not be argued against, especially in obscure matters such as this. Its quite funny really when you look how obscure this argument has become, it was originally only about the name of the parliament at Westminster! It then descended into a conversation that i am struggling to keep up with! I propose, with the agreement of others of course, that this somewhat confusing and in depth argument be stopped before it turns into a full blown article of its own! Considering that the reason for the section in the first place has gone, i think this is probably a good place to stop (in a good, solid, no decision made position); we could continue this argument for many year with no decision actually being reached!.Willski72 (talk) 22:52, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

I'm not really arguing so it's fine with me. :) --candle•wicke 00:21, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

Phew! Hopefully thats the end and we can all go home.... (cue the hand through the ground, twitch of body, eye opening etc) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Willski72 (talk • contribs) 08:36, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

DAMIT! Ruined the effect by forgetting to sign! Looks like im the one opening the eye, sticking my hand through the earth and twitching!Willski72 (talk) 08:40, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

Hand through the ground? Is that a thinly veiled reference to Britain retaking Ireland... oh no, wait, everybody is supposed to go home now, right. ;) --candle•wicke 06:48, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

An interesting idea! I was thinking more along the lines of a random user coming along and starting the argument again... but it looks like were OK on that front.....Willski72 (talk) 19:48, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

So far so good. --candle•wicke 11:13, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

I would like to argue further about the {Noise of User being wrestled to the floor, keyboard smashing, loud shouting. Silence falls.} Michael of Lucan (talk) 12:26, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

Anyone else want to try!!!!Willski72 (talk) 14:09, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

I think they've all gone home... --candle•wicke 23:15, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

I think they have! Its amazing! I think they got the hint after we got rid of Michael of Lucan....Willski72 (talk) 14:19, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

Got rid of him? That's a little bit confrontational... what did you do to him? That loud shouting followed by the prolonged silence is rather worrying... --candle•wicke 18:52, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

Arguments and abuse, eh?

Man looking for an argument: "Look, I CAME HERE FOR AN ARGUMENT, I'm not going to just stand...!!"

Abuser: "OH, oh I'm sorry, but this is abuse."

M: "Oh, I see, well, that explains it."

A: "Ah yes, you want room 12A, Just along the corridor....(Stupid git!)"

This joke would have been far easier if wikiquote has more content...

Cheers, This flag once was red^propaganda_deeds 19:04, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

Ah yes, room 12A... is that where we go to solve the mystery of the loud shouting and prolonged silence? --candle•wicke 19:15, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

Maybe.... Look he had it coming i did warn him!Willski72 (talk) 20:21, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

Eh ... hello... why am I lying here surrounded by a crowd of people? Did something fall on me? I just wanted to discuss the [There is a sound of heavy footsteps, and a strange crunching sound. Silence falls.} Michael of Lucan (talk) 23:30, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

Yes Michael, something did fall on you. It keeps falling on you at the end of your sentences. Silence. I wonder if we'll ever find the source of that strange crunching sound though... will that answer be in 12A too? --candle•wicke 14:18, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

Someones deleted the fact that Michael of Lucan is actually "{Muffled talking along the lines of 'we warned you' followed by a piercing scream and a heavy thud.}"Willski72 (talk) 13:17, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

Yes, there is no such thing as censorship on Wikipedia. As I said, I am L----------------------. So now you know. It's out in the open. Michael of Lucan (talk) 22:20, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

Sorry about that, walked into the talking doors again. It seems their going to extraodinary lengths to stop even Michael of Lucan from admitting his true identity as {a loud bang rings out and a groan of pain is heard.}Willski72 (talk) 23:48, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

British Isles is the correct term for all the "Islands" that includes Ireland and the United Kingdom. --Spacepostman (talk) 02:25, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

I think you've misunderstood. We've agreed to put aside our differences on this and are instead preoccupying ourselves with such topics as censorship, falling, reward money and the contents of a mysterious room called 12A. We've discovered that this is much more fun - and there's money involved!!! (well, maybe). Now back to the main business - you are L... Lindsay Lohan? --candle•wicke 03:44, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!!!!! That was funny! No hes really Lo{ choking sound followed by a faint hissing noise and the crunch of a plastic bag.}Willski72 (talk) 10:50, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, I didn't quite catch that. I had to cover my ears, there was an awful hiss crunch sound there. --candle•wicke 17:59, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

Oh really? Sorry about that, my hot air ballon had a whole in it and it fell on a plastic bag which made me choke with laughter.... Anyway Michael of Lucan told me that he was actually Lordi from Eurovision song Contest a couple of years back, all of them! Would you believe it! {whispering in the background along the lines of "what the....?}Willski72 (talk) 18:09, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

Hallelujah and many congratulations! Everybody happy now that we've made our minds up about who we are (or have we)? Adding further voice to this fairytale, what is that light shining in my eyes now? Love? you say? Hold me now, I believe I wanna go for a bathroom break everyway that I can – Why me? (Etc...) --candle•wicke 21:43, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

It would be so much easier if someone could just come up with a term to describe people from the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Something a little easier to say than United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland-ish. UKOGBANIish? (pronounced: You-cog-banish). I can picture it now: "An expenses row forces the resignation of several Youcogbanish MP's". 130.56.86.30 (talk) 23:22, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

UKOGBANI would do I think. The double I of "Ireland" and "ish" doesn't work too well. Several Ukogbani MPs are removed from power following a row over money. --candle•wicke 01:02, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

If only we had an encyclopedia handy, so we could look up Alternative names for the British...-gadfium 02:39, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

Why not UKists but only pronounce the U, like UkistsWillski72 (talk) 10:05, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

Several John Bulls, some pegs and some MPs from Wales and Northern Ireland are embroiled in a controversy over expenses? No, the alternatives don't really work I'm afraid... --candle•wicke 16:14, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

John Bull would of had more honour than to claim expenses in the same way that some of them have! Roast Beef isnt that expensive and he can pay for his own tudor beams, moat and duck house!Willski72 (talk) 21:58, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

Um... MPs as farm animals? Is that an appropriate use of valuable Wikipedia paper? Please think of the trees! --candle•wicke 20:06, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

No the duck house (which is in the mock tudor style) is for his ducks, which are protected from duck thieves by a moat.Willski72 (talk) 22:53, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Wait, you mean the guy with the moat was trying to protect his ducks?! :-O --candle•wicke 12:55, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Ducks are a valuable commodity highly prized in certain circles. They can swim AND fly AND walk, why they have not yet taken over the world is beyond me....Willski72 (talk) 13:43, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

You don't think... no, it couldn't be possible... but... no... yet, could it be that the ducks were behind that claim or even all of the claims?! I was thinking those politicians were looking a bit clueless when it came to trying to work out what was going on... --candle•wicke 13:48, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Oh yes its very clever, the politicians are merely a front for our duck overlords! The politicians are paid £64,000 a year for this smokescreen while the UK Council of ducks is made up of 646 ducks who live off these puppet MPs expenses (on average about £140,000 a year). They can therefore afford to live in their mock tudor duck houses, protected from prying eyes by their moats!Willski72 (talk) 14:43, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Quick - someone call The Daily Telegraph! They might be able to squeeze this astonishing revelation into their front page for tomorrow! --candle•wicke 00:16, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

I tried, they wouldnt listen, not even when i offered to swim across the moat to capture one of the ducks mock tudor houses.Willski72 (talk) 09:45, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

But what can you do? You know what ducks are like for fowl play!Willski72 (talk) 13:13, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Cacık, a Turkish cold appetiser yoghurt variety.

In rugby union, the player pursues his opponent through levitation, an art which only the very best have mastered.

It's a neigh-on clucking disgrace at this stage - those quacks moove out of baadness if you ask me... barking mad the lot of them... some of them are right bad eggs, thinking they're the cream of the crop when in truth they're out to save their own bacon after milking the system and scrambling the small fry, but they'll end up with yoghurt on their faces yet... --candle•wicke 16:12, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

.....er yes, thats just what i was going to say!Willski72 (talk) 16:17, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Looks like I got there before you... --candle•wicke 16:31, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

I hadnt quite finished writing them all down yet! I'll get some of that yoghurt, stand outside Parliament after Prime Ministers Question Time and wait for them all to come pouring out. They'll think its world war 3.... with yoghurt!!!Willski72 (talk) 20:46, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Normal usage is that Britain means UK & is therefore, illogically, bigger than Great Britain. Peter jackson (talk) 11:16, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

What about abnormal usage? --candle•wicke 03:06, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

Or indeed ignormal usage?Willski72 (talk) 08:53, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

I think you meant ignoble? But we'll not give you any grief over it... --candle•wicke 19:41, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

My mistake! Very kind of you! Levitating ducks may be a match for our duck overlords some day!Willski72 (talk) 21:53, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

Speaking of levitation. --candle•wicke 01:44, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Looks like he's going to swing off the pitch!Willski72 (talk) 16:52, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Might be a painful landing... --candle•wicke 13:53, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

But funny to watch!Willski72 (talk) 16:47, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

Oh, don't be so cruel!!! :) :) :) --candle•wicke 03:27, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

AH hes had worse....Willski72 (talk) 09:32, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

Don't you think it's ironic that the reason for starting this, i.e. British political expenses and resignations, is back in the news and might soon be back In the news... --candle•wicke 18:06, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

They say history repeats itself.... but generally not quite this fast! We've done a very good job keeping this on the talk page since the 13th May, using the clever tactic of talking about some very very strange things. Nearly a month!Willski72 (talk) 18:43, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

Yes, sometimes I "forget" to rush my replies thus prolonging this painful agony... --candle•wicke 20:32, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

To think Purnell, Blears, Flint and Hutton (but Hutton doesnt count!) The original argument seems pretty petty now! To think its been less than a month since this whole thing blew up in the politicians faces, doesnt time fly when your having fun!Willski72 (talk) 22:17, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

Why doesn't Hutton count? I think you did that deliberately so that I'd have to reply! Tut tut... :) --candle•wicke 03:12, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Ooh, the suspense is a killer... :) --candle•wicke 11:27, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Because............ he declared that he was supporting Brown when he stood down. He was leaving politics altogether, Brown had nothing to do with it (so he says anyway).Willski72 (talk) 11:56, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

"In association football, FC Barcelona defeat Manchester United..."

Why does the purity talibans of Wikipedia persist calling football or soccer a term nobody else is using? Like the kibibyte silliness, this is a disgrace for Wikipedia. Thanks, CapnZapp (talk) 17:37, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

That's what the article is called. weburiedoursecretsinthegarden 17:38, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

I dont understand the problem here. u want to call football, soccer? when most of the world actually calls it football. Ashishg55 (talk) 18:00, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

There are ~300,000,000 English speakers who would not call it Football. J.delanoy^gabs_adds 18:02, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

URGENT NOTE I think it is important to point out quickly that there are scores of pages of discussion on the subject of what this game should be called - see discussion at the article Association Football. Angry people should read the previous half million pages there. We all know it's a US/Rest of the world issue, which will never be resolved, unless we get together and nuke the Yanks. Our User team in North Korea is working on this, and hopes to have results shortly. Have patience, comrades. Michael of Lucan (talk) 18:10, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

lol J.delanoy^gabs_adds 18:12, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Well i know this has been discussed quite a bit before. But here is the thing. entire India calls it football. thats 1.1 billion people. That alone should be enough of an argument against the 300 mil from US. Just because US decided to create their own local game and call it football because they suck at the real one, does not mean entire world now needs to change the name. Ashishg55 (talk) 18:20, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

As much as I agree with you, India aren't brilliant at football neither ;) weburiedoursecretsinthegarden 18:22, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

How many of those 1.1B are native english speakers? I understand that India is technically bilingual, but I was under the understanding that large portions of the population spoke Hindi only. However, even if all 1.1B speak the Queen's English, there's no excuse for making a sentence confusing to 300+ Million people, and nearly unintelligible to a large portion of that 300+ Million. APL (talk) 19:55, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Before someone corrects me, I know I said scores of pages of discussion, then a half million pages. In estimating the pages of actual discussion, naturally I have excluded from the half million the totally unreasonable arguments of those based in the United States (which no one else agrees with, of course). However, to save space I also omitted all the utterly fair and reasonable comments abusing them viciously for being unreasonable. :-) Michael of Lucan (talk) 18:27, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Ashishg55, I don't have a problem with Wikipedia choosing one or the other term ("football" or "soccer"). After all, both terms are widely used. I do have a problem with Wikipedia using the term "association football" - a term nobody is using. Hence my comparison to "kibibyte", another term nobody is using. —Preceding unsigned comment added by CapnZapp (talk • contribs) 18:53, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

The point is clarity. "Football" on its own is ambiguous and confuses people in USA. "Soccer" on its own is unambiguous but virtually unused by non-USA readers. (Does it confuse them? Or just offend them? I'm not sure. Either way not good.)

"Association Football" is clear to everyone involved, just as "American Football" is clear to everyone involved even though no one in America ever spells it out like that. APL (talk) 19:55, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Ya i dont mind association football either since it is proper term anyways. And for my indian argument - India may not be 100% english speaking being developing country and all but they do use football to refer to the sport (and i know they suck too lol). And even if u were to exclude non-english speaking population (ones who do not understand english at all). Even then the number would be a lot higher than 300 million. So making a 300 mil argument is useless comparatively. Ashishg55 (talk) 20:55, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

As has been every single time this sport has appeared on the Main Page, "soccer" is not just restricted to the USA; Canada and Australia also use the term to distinguish it from other sports called "football". howcheng {chat} 21:33, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Is soccer just a made up word to replace football because Americans couldnt be bothered to think of a name for their own game? Which was there first? Who knows!Willski72 (talk) 21:00, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Wiktionary says : "Colloquial abbreviation for Association football." That's a rather unsatisfying answer, though. A commenter on the talk page claims the abbreviation was started by students at Oxford. There isn't a cite for either. APL (talk) 21:36, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

See Football (word). howcheng {chat} 21:38, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Thankyou, one question answered!Willski72 (talk) 21:44, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Neat. Wikipedia does have an article on everything! APL (talk) 22:35, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Take a look at everything Modest Genius ^talk 23:41, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

It would appear so!Willski72 (talk) 22:49, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

In rugby union, the player pursues his opponent through levitation, an art which only the very best have mastered.

• Just 'Football' should have been the term used. In football (soccer) the players use their foot to kick the ball. In American football they use their arms to carry an egg.--These girls should eat less bisquits... (talk) 18:01, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

So in rugby they do what? –Howard the Duck 18:41, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

I dont want to know!Willski72 (talk) 20:40, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

Famously, rugby players do it with odd-shaped balls. --Dweller (talk) 21:52, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

The better quotation is "Rugby is played by men with odd-shaped balls". Michael of Lucan (talk) 10:39, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

As I said in my Urgent Note at the start of this, this is essentially a conflict between the US and the Rest of the World. The US has an odd local game. It's a bit like Rugby, but it is only played by wimps who wear armour in case they might hurt themselves. Unlike Rugby, it's played almost entirely with the hands, but they do use an egg-shaped ball. Logically, they should call it Handegg but they insist on calling it "Football".

The Rest of the World can see the absurdity of this, but Americans always had difficulties in using English properly. All we can do is keep referring to "Handegg" until they get the point, or start playing a real man's game.

At this point, maybe we should just be practical. Let's nuke 'em and solve the problem. Michael of Lucan (talk) 10:40, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Wimps? We were playing without pads and people were getting killed until President Theodore Roosevelt intervened in 1905. Even with today's equipment, people still get seriously hurt. So go up to Mike Utley and call him a wimp, and you'll do the Original Research on the differences between a quad and a paraplegic. MMetro (talk) 10:12, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

I think there's a fella called Kim something or other, who lives in one of those pesky communist countries, who maybe able to help us with that --Daviessimo (talk) 11:19, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

But does he have one of these? ("That's not a nuclear football, that's a nuclear rugby ball! No, it's a nuclear American football!") ;-) Cheers, This flag once was red^propaganda_deeds 11:24, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

American football is not played "almost entirely with the hands". I'd reckon it and rugby have the same number of instances where the ball is kicked; in American football's case after every the point after touchdown and most of the time during the fourth down. –Howard the Duck 11:55, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

We must agree to differ. However, I gather that you accept that Handegg players are wimps, who wear armour in case they get hurt. Real men play Rugby, of course. They only get substituted if the blood makes the ball slippery, or when important bits of them are falling off. Michael of Lucan (talk) 12:15, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure that they are secretly wearing full body Boxing Gloves to improve the chance of causing long term damage rather than the superficial, egg-lubricating injuries found in rugby. 147.72.72.2 (talk) 17:45, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

The igloo.

If we're into real sports, nothing beats ice hockey since they hit each other with sticks, chase a "puck", play back-to-back games, and play in igloos (see "more color" section below.) –Howard the Duck 12:37, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

As noted above, Australians and Canadians have joined the sons and daughters of freedom in rejecting this legacy of British imperialism. (As a side note, does it ever concern the British that most of their former empire (aside from Ireland) has not done well at international soccer, and in fact seem to prefer either cricket (India, Pakistan), rugby (South Africa, New Zealand) or homegrown variants of whatever forgotten original soccer evolved from (US, Australia, Canada)? Hell, out of those countries the US is (I think) the only one whose soccer team has ever advanced past the first elimination round in a World Cup).

I can see from this thread that I'll have to create an article on Stefan Markovits's Offside (excellent book looking into why soccer never caught on in the US (short version: had a chance in the late 1920s but blew it due to infighting between the dominant league of the time and the national federation (which, it may be of interest, insisted on calling itself the U.S. Football Federation until 1947)). Daniel Case (talk) 13:55, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Pardon me, Daniel, but I moved your post down from the middle of my earlier post. Michael of Lucan (talk) 15:15, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Well, note that both the one true sport and that excuse to eat strawberries are both British inventions. Personally, I'm concerned that New Zealand has stopped calling soccer "soccer" and is now insisting it's called "football". On the subject of real-men sports, Murderball is the original name for Wheelchair rugby, which in theory is rugby for athletes with a disability, and in practice is a sport for people who think ice hockey is a game for wimps. I believe that having a disability isn't compulsory, since you'll almost certainly have one after playing murderball. Cheers, This flag once was red^propaganda_deeds 15:24, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Which pretty much confirms that ITN is not North American (U.S.)-centric, at least on sports, with 4 recurring sports items as opposed to the aforemention British inventions with 8, plus a few more such as snooker "world" championship. I didn't include the original subject of this thread since everyone plays it. –Howard the Duck 16:34, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

I don't know whether Ireland was included in the "only one whose soccer team has ever advanced past the first elimination round in a World Cup" but it would appear that checking Wikipedia ought to confirm that it has surpassed the record of the US since 1990. The US (with all its world might) seems to have managed only quarter-final appearance and a second round appearance (in 1994 when they were hosting the tournament) whereas Ireland already had a run of one quarter-final and two second round appearances in the four World Cups before 2006 (the length of time it took the US to get to get to the quarter finals for the first time since when exactly?) Also, if anything, there seems to be more armour used in ice-hockey than the other sports mentioned - one wonders how these pampered players would cope in a proper death match like Gaelic football or hurling... no doubt they'd demand a pay rise too... --candle•wicke 17:13, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

I said "aside from Ireland". Read it again.

Actually, I think that ice hockey has rather moderate padding ... certainly the shoulder pads I wore playing football are a lot bulkier than their hockey counterparts (which, in turn, are bulky compared to lacrosse shoulder pads). And you can blame the NHL for mandating that players under contract since after 1979 or so wear helmets ... it's certainly reduced injuries but I do miss watching players like Bob Nystrom skate down the ice with his blonde mane bouncing around. Granted, the elbow and knee padding are kind of thick compared to what football players wear (and elbow pads are optional in football; many players don't wear them, at least when playing on grass), but then again in football you're not putting those elbows and knees down on ice. Daniel Case (talk) 03:00, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

So does that mean that... gasp... basketball is the toughest sport? They do wear tank tops and shorts only, though. –Howard the Duck 18:14, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Wait, sumo wrestling MUST take the cake on being the toughest sport ever. –Howard the Duck 18:20, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

You're all forgetting Bowls, now that can get vicious! (Not bowling for anyone getting confused!)Willski72 (talk) 19:53, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Basketball... course it's tough - they're not afraid of getting an elbow in the face. And, speaking of bowls, the next World Bowls Championships will be held in Adelaide, Australia from 24 November – 9 December 2012. Any objection to me adding it to WP:ITNR? Once every four years only so we missed last year's... --candle•wicke 22:37, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Hmmm... Isn't everyone glad Barcelona won (that was a not so entirely random football related comment that was needed to keep this thread going) --Daviessimo (talk) 20:31, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Bulgaria bus accident

Moved to Wikipedia:In the news section on the Main Page/Candidates#ITN candidates for May 28

More color.

Can we get more color? More color on the front page. For the aesthetic factor. It may delve into the general discussion of the theme, but I tend to think of it for the front page. e.g. a bit of friendly yellow and happy cyan in the mix to give it a more harmonious touch. --AaThinker (talk) 12:37, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

How about colours that most match the main news event, such as red for the bankruptcy of GM etc.Willski72 (talk) 13:01, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

Lesson #672 of Wikipedia: there is ALWAYS a Main Page redesign proposal in progress. The most recent one just died a horrible death here a couple of months ago, no doubt a new one will start soon. However, constantly changing colours are not appropriate, especially as items/colours may mean different things to different people of different cultures, not to mention that changing them would be nightmare for the section editors and admins. —Vanderdecken∴ ∫ξφ 13:24, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

No, I meant it truly only limited in colors and strictly presentation. I probably though go more into the realm of themes (for wikipedia overall) so I won't continue it here. --AaThinker (talk) 17:27, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

Nah, having red colors for the news item about Detroit will be anti-Penguin bias. –Howard the Duck 20:12, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

Ha! Who would have guessed it could have more than one meaning!Willski72 (talk) 21:49, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

Why, the penguins presumably! :) --candle•wicke 23:50, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

These creatures are getting cleverer, they can swim, walk, almost fly AND play hockey!!! The world is at their feet!!!Willski72 (talk) 16:57, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Yes i agree 62.92.31.1 (talk) 09:08, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

Please clarify, and address my penguin-phobia - are you saying penguins can almost play hockey? 'cause hockey-playing penguins would be terrifying, but I can copy with penguins that can almost fly and almost play hockey... Also, don't forget that these birds of evil invented their own operating system, then blamed it on a human. I use Linux just to placate the penguins... Cheers, This flag once was red^propaganda_deeds 17:05, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Im afraid they can play hockey. Even as we speak they are practicing their evil plans to woo all humans with hockey while secretly attempting to dive-bomb them while they're distracted. But not being able to because they can only almost fly....Willski72 (talk) 17:11, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Yes, they can do many amazing things, but they have a weak spot, as they can be caught in a trap Random89 19:32, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

In the news

Why is the assault on the Indians in Australia not covered in the "in the news" section? I tried adding it to the section but seems someone removed it. The death toll for the same has reached over 6 and certainly compared to Australian population it is a big deal losing over 6 lives. Also it is a concern as I believe its every humans duty to condemn racism. It would be great if someone could add the same.Bmayuresh (talk) 05:53, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, what? Over 6??? --candle•wicke 06:46, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

Hey, what do mean by Over 6??? Racism should be condemned in the strongest words. 202.79.40.142 (talk) 15:05, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

To be honest Wikipedia is meant to be neutral so it is not out place to codemn or condone the violence. Thus as Candlewicke and others have pointed out this can only be judged on scale and unfortunately six deaths in not enough. If you develop an article that explains the deeper political, economic and social ramifications then maybe it can be considered, but I know that, certainly from my point of view, this is, as of yet, not big enough --Daviessimo (talk) 15:55, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

We see your point but unfortunately it has to have international significance (suppossedly) for it to be put up. That or it has to be really big.Willski72 (talk) 09:28, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

Well, it is sending shockwaves in both Australia and India, so there you go. I don't think there's an article on the subject, though. Nishkid64 _{(Make articles, not wikidrama)} 15:08, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

Perhaps you could update Racism in Australia instead. --BorgQueen (talk) 15:26, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

Suggestions for items to feature in the "In the News" section should be posted to Wikipedia:In The News Candidates. That's the place set up to discuss whether or not an item meets the criteria posted at Wikipedia:In the news section on the Main Page. (For future reference, there are links to each of those pages in the infobox at the top of this discussion page.) -- 128.104.112.106 (talk) 16:23, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

Checkers Speech bias

Did you know...

...that, having never heard of it before, Wikipedian J Milburn now sees references to the Checkers speech all over the main page? J Milburn (talk) 21:40, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

WP:CHECKERSSPEECHCABAL. --Smashville^talk 21:44, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

And now, an Obama speech. Hmmm... J Milburn (talk) 07:49, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

Obama speech

I'm sorry, but are we going to put every speech by every world leader on the main page of Wikipedia as news? Thankyoubaby (talk) 04:37, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

• Concur. And why is it dubbed "highly anticipated"? By whom precisely? Only because the Americans wanted to check out the reaction of the Muslim world to what Mr.Obama has to say, it doesn't mean it was "highly" anticipated. I'm sorry, but it's a typical POV. KNewman (talk) 05:58, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

I agree, I was against this at WP:ITN/C (along with one other person before it was posted). I cannot see what it is about this speech that makes it more notable than any other speech made by a head of state. I am beginning to think that this was posted just because Obama made the speech - Dumelow (talk) 07:19, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

You got to love that cult of personality he's growing, don't ya? This isn't exactly news; I was under the impression American-Muslim relations were already being improved and worked upon. --PlasmaTwa2 07:43, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

I also agree this should go. Lots of big political news in Britain today- I doubt most of it should get on, but it certainly looks more important than this speech. We're just asking for it, putting this up... J Milburn (talk) 07:51, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

I would normally agree with this thinking. However, this speeech is front page news in my Irish newspaper today - with a shot of armed and masked Hamas fighters watching it on TV. I think it may be seen in future as a moment of change, when the USA started to reopen communications with the Muslim world. George Bush did incredible harm to the image of the USA in all the rest of the world. However, in particular he created a strong perception that it was heavily opposed to Islam, and sought to destroy it. (PLEASE DON'T FLAME ME. I do not say that perception is correct - only that it is the honest perception of huge numbers of Muslims.) You will see that this may be a watershed moment. Leave it in ITN. Michael of Lucan (talk) 09:13, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

I think the key here is that it may mark a change in relations - it is just as likely that it may not mark any change. Wikipedia does not deal in speculation on the future. Otherwise we would have to feature almost every speech ever made just in case it does have an effect. All that I are article on the speech says is that he reaffirmed the US's close bond with Israel (hardly shocking news) and recognised the right of Palestinians to aspire to statehood (but did not commit to recognise that state or say that he supported statehood). Note also that our tagline is that "...Barack Obama (pictured) delivers an address to..." seeming to indicate that his mere act of making a speech is newsworthy. My newspaper front pages today are dominated by the hasty reshuffling of Gordon Brown's cabinet, further ministerial resignations and the apparently large number of his own MPs that want him gone, if we are comparing - Dumelow (talk) 09:51, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

I'd like to see it pulled as well: I don't see any objection to an article on the speech, but an ITN piece seems a bit over the top. We'll get a chance to put Barack on there again soon enough, there's no need to pad it out with half-baked stories. I also midly object to the "delivers an address to the Muslim world"—that's pure White House spin! He delivered an address to an invited audience at Cairo University (which somehow made it into the "History" section of our article on this prestigious institution!). Physchim62 (talk) 10:16, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

I agree, James Purnell resigned yesterday and 'stabbed Gordon Brown in the front' like Hazel Blears has done, but this hasnt been up even though it could lead to the collapse of a government. As interesting as Obama's speech was, unless it leads to Iran stopping uranium production etc it has no significance in itself. We may look back in future and say that that was the turning point, and then again we may not, until we know we can but speculate.Willski72 (talk) 10:23, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

Yep agreed as well, don't think the Brown stuff should be in there yet either, but Obama's speech shouldn't be. Dotty••|☎ 10:29, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

OK, it's a judgment call, and every country has heavy news today. The real point is how the speech has been covered - was it ignored as just another speech or was it seen as ground-breaking? In communicating with people, perception becomes reality.

We have elections today in Ireland for all local authorities and the European Parliament, and two important bye-elections. There is a huge scandal about national examination papers being revealed. Yet, the Obama speech is the main front page item in in the paper with the second largest circulation, and top right front page in the one with the largest.

It is front page news on al Jazeera, with basically positive comments. (Well, as positive as al Jazeera ever gets!) A quick glance at France and Spain shows the same, while Google News has a ferocious number of hits worldwide for the speech. Something is clearly happening, and it is appropriate to record its passage. Michael of Lucan (talk) 10:34, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

I see it's gone, so the discussion is over. Majority rules. However, FYI note the Main Page of Arabic Wikipedia - it's the one just below Simple English in the left column. You don't have to read Arabic to understand what one item is - the picture is a hint. I suspect that (normally justified) fear of Anglo-centrism has actually caused a wrong assessment here. Michael of Lucan (talk) 11:00, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

I don't want to besmirch the work of the ITN team at the Arabic Wikipedia (as I am not aware of their policies) but their news section doesn't strike me as representative of world news. They have the Obama address and items about Palestine, Israel, Ethiopia, Mauritania and Pakistan - all items (barring Ethiopia) relating to the Arab or Muslim worlds. I do see your point though, this story is being covered in a lot of places - Dumelow (talk) 11:50, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

How many hits a particular speech gets on sites or how it shows up in newspapers is irrelevant if every speech from the person has same effect. In canada Obama getting his dog was featured on front page right above our own damn elections. I am gonna speculate here and say that Obama has a huge PR team that works hard on making sure everything he does becomes notable in entire world. Wikipedia is WP:NOTNEWS. so what goes on ITN should not be chosen by how famous a speech got in media. thats why we have WP:ITN/C section where we can discuss all this. Good to see that it was taken down. I opposed to it once before it was posted anyways. Ashishg55 (talk) 15:29, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

Jeez, sure are a lot of self-important assholes on here. Guess you guys wish you got to decide what's news, huh? At least the rest of the world has acknowledged the vast importance of this speech, much more than some nobody politician getting shot. 129.170.94.174 (talk) 21:14, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

I believe the correct spelling is arseholes :o --Daviessimo (talk) 21:28, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

Visual edible baloney.

No no, i think he does mean to call us all donkey holes. It is still my great ambition to buy a donkey and stand in New York with it telling everyone to kiss my ass!Willski72 (talk) 22:07, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

What a load of pony... pony and trap... --candle•wicke 23:41, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

Will they be actually allowed to kiss your ass, if they are inclined that way, or is it just an expression? I am curious because in my native culture the phrase kiss my ass will be interpreted quite literally. --BorgQueen (talk) 02:04, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

Yes... my donkey will be smothered in kisses. Unhygenic perphaps but hey ho!Willski72 (talk) 09:28, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

Just get him vaccinated and buy him a gas mask beforehand and he'll be ok... --candle•wicke 20:52, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

European Parliament election 2009

I thought that the European Parliament election might be important enough to put somewhere on the mainpage. Maybe someone agree's?--SelfQ (talk) 21:47, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

Yep, it's been discussed over at WP:ITN/C where consensus is to wait until results are announced (which will begin on Sunday night) before posting. It will certainly make it on though - this is the largest trans-national election in the world (electorate of 375 million representing around 500 million people) - Dumelow (talk) 21:50, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

Bacon?

Is it my imagination, or is it at least the fourth time in one week that the "did you know..." section has an entry about bacon, and at least the second that it is the only illustrated one? Is it International Bacon Week or something? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Complainer (talk • contribs) 23:09, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

No, it's not your imagination, but a project being run by a few bacon-loving editors. Take a look at User:ChildofMidnight/Baconchallenge2009 Modest Genius ^talk 23:30, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Bacon fetishists recently gathered in a dark room, thrashed about some wild fantasies concerning their favourite topic and vomited the contents of their minds and stomachs onto the Main Page... this is no porkie pie. --candle•wicke 23:33, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

Oh that is giving me some really nasty thoughts!!!Willski72 (talk) 09:30, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

Ummmm June 6th, Today in History...Doesn't mention D-Day on the front page

Are you serious. There is no mention of D-day in this section, you have to click on the link, but there IS a mention of the first Drive in theater where you don't have to? Get serious, Lame Wikipedia...really Lame 173.79.159.170 (talk) 13:22, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, what is that about? Sure a drive in is great, but a drive in did not free millions of people from Nazi oppression. This is poor. Murgon (talk) 13:32, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

The Normandy landings are featured as today's featured image. It was noted above that when an item is shown in one portal on the main page, it does not usually appear on any others (so something ITN wouldn't be a DYK or today's FA, etc.) MelicansMatkin (talk) 13:36, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

Hmm...not sure about this... Dotty••|☎ 14:08, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

I think it is too late to put it anywhere else now. Try again next time. Murgon (talk) 14:23, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

It probably is; the 65th anniversary doesn't come around very often! Dotty••|☎ 15:11, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

Totally a good point Melican. I mean, Heaven forbid Wikipedia make an exception for an event that made sure Mr. Wales didn't grow up speaking German. Bureaucratic red tape.....173.79.159.170 (talk) 15:15, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

I don't think growing up speaking german is a problem. There is a german wikipedia and its one of the strongest wikipedia communities I believe! Suppose D-Day was nice for most germans too! Anyways the day is over now, wait for 5 years :-) Jeromeplacec (talk) 15:57, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

You should have seen the Main Page on September 11, 2008. Both the featured article and the featured picture were related to the September 11 attacks. And thus there were complaints on both sides of the issue on whether to also mention it also on the OTD section (see the archived discussions here and here).

The main arguments against repeating an anniversary on two or more sections on the Main Page is that it puts too much emphasis on that particular event, no matter how much that historical event is notable or significant, and that just mentioning it in one section is sufficient coverage. The main arguments for repeating it on OTD include the fact that some readers will immediately specifically look for it on OTD without looking at the other sections, will be puzzled by the omission, and then post here on this talk page, like you did, requesting an explanation.

My preference in general is to not repeat the same information on the Main Page. Only 5-6 events are posting on OTD at a time. There are many articles and topics here on Wikipedia that can qualify for the OTD section, and I would rather not repeat the same 5-6 articles every June 6. Zzyzx11 (talk) 16:08, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

In that case, I would rather not repeat the same 5-6 articles every September 11. Murgon (talk) 16:24, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

...or repeat the same sets of 5-6 articles every year on all the other 365 OTD templates. Zzyzx11 (talk) 16:28, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

...D-day is an event which changed the course of history, had it failed, the world would be completely different, such an event is important enough to be featured every year. A Drive in movie theatre is not. When a drive in theatre hands a fatal blow to a facist reigeme, then it can be placed in preference to D-Day. Murgon (talk) 16:44, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

I don't recall much in the way of complaints on the 19th of november about the lack of coverage of the Battle of Stalingrad.Geni 09:05, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Ye but not so many Russians on the English language Wikipedia though.Willski72 (talk) 11:59, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

I like you Jerome, to deal with such an event so flippantly means you def have to have something else to offer the world than such disregard for such an important event. What a surprise you're french and only 15 years old. I'll cut you a break seeing that you really have no idea what you're talking about. 173.79.159.170 (talk) 16:41, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

It's more insulting than that, we rescued Jerome's people, saved them from being shot by nazi's. And he doesn't want to recognize that. I suppose the old saying has proven itself to be true. "Never trust the french." Backstabbers. Murgon (talk) 16:46, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

Please see WP:NPA and WP:Civility. Nil Einne (talk) 06:30, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

D-day

I'm just wondering why D-day is not in the "On this day..." section. It was certainly more important to most Americans than the opening of the first drive-in theatre?

Thanks,

Falconus^{p t c} 16:13, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

Ah, I should have looked at the above posting. Anyway, it is my personal thought that events so important as this should be put two or three times. --Falconus^{p t c} 16:16, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

I guess the liberation of Europe just isn't important to many people anymore. I swear, Churchill's rolling in his grave right now.Prussian725 (talk) 16:45, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

Along side the hundreds of thousands of people who died for the cause. Murgon (talk) 16:50, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

I do not understand what the big deal is. It is just one, short single sentence that is basically going to redundantly repeat most of the gist of the caption on Today's featured picture. I am probably just coming more from a non-partial, copywriting, copy editing, publishing point-of-view. Zzyzx11 (talk) 17:09, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

The featured picture is the least visible element of the Main Page. The majority of readers see only TFA and ITN, some of them scroll down for OTD or DYK, and a few down to the TFP. Clearly, many readers will be upset by not founding straightforward mention of it. I think it should be mentioned in OTD, it's a list after all, it doesn't highlight the event especially like TFA would. So the 'rule' that a same event should not be mentioned twice on the Main Page has not so much weight here and could be ignored in this case. If we had an article on the 65th D-Day celebrations (which I'm sure we could have managed), we could even maybe had mentioned it in ITN (then, we could have not mentioned it in OTD). Let's try to do this for the 70th. And before that, an article on D-Day celebrations in general could be valuable too. Cenarium (talk) 17:31, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

That's the point. Truthfully, I'd never even known there was a "Pic of the Day" because I've never even scrolled down on the main page until today. But even saying that, D-Day get's "just" a pic? Granted it's at least something, but that's like putting Obama's pic up there and expecting the gravity of the situation to be explained by a simple picture. 173.79.159.170 (talk) 17:46, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

Typical Wikipedia stupidity. You guys wonder WHY no serious academic takes it seriously?67.76.14.193 (talk) 17:44, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

Hey, I appreciate your Floridian view, but seriously, academics don't take wikipedia seriously bc it's not peer reviewed, not because of questioning by editors. 173.79.159.170 (talk) 17:49, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

Careful or it'll get nasty! There's a lot of resentment in France that the Anglo-Saxon world had to save them, just look at the farce over the Queen not being invited. Of course we had to bail them out in the first world war as well, if it hadnt been for the British Expeditionary force Paris would of been taken within 6 weeks of the war beginning and that would of been the end of that!Willski72 (talk) 17:50, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

It's a lot deeper than that. But I am not at all surprised. Murgon (talk) 18:00, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

I can understand the whole idea of being redundant but this event is only going to be posted once a year just like all the other events so is it really that bad to have it included in the main page? (209.6.17.76 (talk) 18:20, 6 June 2009 (UTC))

It is included in the main page. It has an entire section dedicated to it this year! —David Levy 18:24, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

That is the featured image correct? I meant including it in "On this day..." I'm sorry I didn't make that clearer. 209.6.17.76 (talk) 18:32, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

Misunderstanding

Several users appear to be under the impression that the event's omission from OTD stems from the bureaucratic enforcement of a rule that we'd like to ignore but have instead allowed to tie our hands. This is not so. If there were consensus to include a redundant mention there, we could easily replace the "drive-in theater" item at a moment's notice. But many of us don't want the duplication. This year, the event has been assigned an entire section (complete with the largest image currently appearing on the main page). Aside from some people's unwillingness to scroll, I don't see what the problem is. —David Levy 18:16, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

The problem is its location. I'm sure you've heard the term "Under the Fold" as referring to a story's position on the front page of a newspaper. It's the same thing here. The point is that such an event deserves a much more prominent position than under the fold. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.79.159.170 (talk) 19:23, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

That's a valid opinion. My point is that there is actual disagreement with it, not an attitude that we cannot include the entry because the rules don't allow us to. —David Levy 20:09, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

Let's be honest though, even OTD/SA is 'under the fold'. The only way we can avoid the item being under the fold is to have a FA or to put an item up in ITN Nil Einne (talk) 06:27, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

IMO, the only reason that some users are making a fuss about this is the comparison between the amount of significance of the Normandy Landings to that of the first drive-in theater. However, the practice of hiding a redundant mention has been done several times this year alone without any complaint. When the Empire State Building was featured on the 1 May POTD, nobody seemed to question why its opening was not on OTD. The next time this is going to happen is when Stand in the Schoolhouse Door will be the 11 June POTD, but it will be harder to make such a relative significance comparison when Thích Quảng Đức's self-immolation also occurred on 11 June, 1963 – which also means there will be additional competition with those users who hate having OTD be frequently dominated by 20th Century or U.S.-centric events. Zzyzx11 (talk) 20:30, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

featured content

how on earth is the fetured content approved please inlighten this subject. i have seen no voting devices or calenders of events to comprehend the featured content at any given time. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.143.4.107 (talk) 16:45, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

Featured material is chosen through featured article candidates, featured picture candidates, featured portal candidates, featured sound candidates, featured list candidates and featured topic candidates. For more information, see Portal:Featured content. J Milburn (talk) 16:50, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

Also, good article candidates if you want to help and valued pictures for more content approval. Plus the procedures for Did you know and In the news on the Main Page. --candle•wicke 21:25, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

Collectively, articles that successfully go through the above process are referred to as "audited content", although some argue that DYK and ITN articles don't qualify as such. Also note that good topics are a sublevel of featured topics. Dabomb87 (talk) 21:32, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

I could be wrong but I think the OP also (or even primarily or solely) wants to know how content is chosen to appear on the main page at any specific date/time. Firstly, and obviously, any featured content must be made featured via the processes described above. Once an article is featured it is chosen to appear on the main page by the featured article director User:Raul654 as described at Wikipedia:Today's featured article. People can make requests and vote on a some candidates at Wikipedia:Today's featured article/requests but Raul654 has the final say. Wikipedia:Featured pictures appear basically in order of promotion and are usually handled by User:Howcheng who you could say is the unofficial director. He does make exceptions for special events etc. The other content is not really featured content, at least not in the way we mean on wikipedia. Wikipedia:Did you know highlights recently created articles and stubs that have been significantly expanded. Several editors work on selecting which hooks appear and anyone is welcome to get involved. "In the news mentions and links to entries of timely interest—that is, encyclopedia articles that have been updated to reflect an important current event—rather than conventional news items". Again several editors work on this and anyone is welcome to be involved. (In both cases admins of course have final control although they should not overide consensus.) Selected anniversaries and On this day doesn't need so much editing only maintanence and doesn't have much central discussion but before they are due to appear on the main page all days are editable so again any editor is welcome to get involved. With these 3 (DYK, ITN, SA/OTD) although the content is not featured, we still expect resonable quality if the item is to appear on the main page which means it should not have any significant problems. Nil Einne (talk) 06:24, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Featured Article

Is it me or is West Bengal not move protected? M.H.^{True Romance iS Dead} 01:12, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

No, it's protected. J.delanoy^gabs_adds 01:13, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

It was protected more than a year ago: [1]. Dabomb87 (talk) 02:31, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Shanghai pride

The information is not even significant enough to be In the News section, not the top news story of the day, see BBC, CBC, CNN, biased news in favour of homosexuals. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.209.182.34 (talk) 14:53, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Exactly. ITN is "not the top news story of the day", you've just said it. It is for events of some significance which have occurred, it doesn't matter how far down the headlines they are as this can vary throughout the world. Shanghai "is the largest city in China in terms of population and one of the largest metropolitan areas in the world". So an event of this type being held there for the first time and indeed for the first time in that country is significant. I can't see any other similar topics on the Main Page so I don't know how you came to the conclusion that it is biased. --candle•wicke 15:31, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

wait what do u mean "biased in favor of homosexuals"... every news item technically refers to some group of people, may it be americans or ppl from europe. just because the news isnt for heterosexuals its suddenly biased towards homosexuals? the point is its a first event of type to happen in Shanghai so the news got posted. Ashishg55 (talk) 15:48, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Ironically someone who is biased against one thing complaining about being biased in favour of it...? --candle•wicke 15:53, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Just to add the anon user 90.209.182.34 is the one who Vandalised the Shanghai Pride page with obscene remarks. so there is no point arguing about this anymore lol. Ashishg55 (talk) 15:55, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Oh yeah, (one more point), the BBC? --candle•wicke 15:57, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

In case of a need for future reference... --candle•wicke 16:00, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

I don't know if it's accurate to call that vandalism. More of a case of extreme POV pushing Nil Einne (talk) 16:08, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

It is a hate comment though. It would not be acceptable in a biography... --candle•wicke 17:07, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Well the article wasn't a biography although I agree it's not any more acceptable in the article as I thought was clear. However it remains my opinion that it was probably not vandalism. And per our policies such as WP:Vandalism calling something when it's not is discouraged. While I'm sure I've identified something as vandalism before when it clear isn't as have many users, it is important editors appreciate what vandalism is and isn't since because amongst other things, calling something vandalism when it isn't can cause needless ill feelings and disputes and also makes it difficult for an editor to learn (since if you are aware of the policy and are sure it doesn't apply to you then when someone accuses you of vandalism, you may legitimately feel the editor is wrong and therefore will not be any the wiser as to why your edit was not acceptable). Also it distracts from true vandalism and does not WP:AGF since vandalism is inherently bad faith editing whereas POV pushing, even highly inflammatory, is not inherently bad faith but more the case of a person letting their personal opinions and beliefs get in the way of their editing. Such an editor may otherwise make constructive edits and from a look at this editors history, some of their edits have been. If they can be convinced to either put aside their beliefs, or perhaps just stay away from areas where they can't control their POV, then such editors can often make good editors. (If they can't they may be blocked but probably not as vandals.) This is as opposed to vandals who are inherently here to harm and need to be convinced to either go away or start to help. Of particular relevance, it is not generally appropriate to automatically dismiss someone because of their strong POV in discussions (although I agree this particular complaint was probably not worth much discussion) however it is usually acceptable to dismiss vandals. Of course the line is not always clear cut, a user who repeatedly inserts the same inflammatory POV pushing into an article when it's been made abundantly clear it it's not welcome could usually legitimately be called vandalism but that was not the case here. Nil Einne (talk) 17:31, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Fair enough. :-) --candle•wicke 17:41, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

I would also like to inquire how this made the ITN section. ITN usually has worldwide important news like disasters, political happenings (elections, assassinations), major sports wins (I see the French Open there) and major conflicts. Compared to these, a pride event in China seems, well, not notable. At least 2 more notable European events come to mind (the ongoing elections and the continuing scandal affecting the government in the UK), and there's also the recovery of bodies for the Air France flight in the Atlantic. It just seems a little bit of an odd choice for a section that is suppose to be (in my opinion) a place for worldwide important headlines (yes, I am insinuating that it is not a worldwide important headline). -Royalguard11(T) 21:09, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

It is mainly supposed to promote new articles on current events that are of sufficient quality and currentness, not how important the story is. If you want a news source, use Wikinews or another news-devoted service - this is an encyclopedia, not a news source. weburiedoursecretsinthegarden 22:10, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Roger Federer In The News?

Hello, Admins why and what has taken you this long to put this in the news box when Federer won the Career Grand Slam and Record Tying Grand Slam. TennisAuthority 17:55, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

ITN always adds Grand Slam events, does it? –Howard the Duck 17:58, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

there's only few admins that work on ITN regularly? and its up now. Ashishg55 (talk) 18:00, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Thanks! Good JOB! TennisAuthority 18:37, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

It has been posted far quicker than the typical ITN... --candle•wicke 19:08, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Ugh, things like this annoy me greatly. If you were in a restaurant and order, and in ten minutes are waiting for your food, do you storm into the kitchen and demand "why and what has taken you this long"? Probably not. Please actually read the box at the top of the page and remember that admins aren't psychic. weburiedoursecretsinthegarden 22:07, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

TennisAuthority's complaint is particularly perplexing, given the fact that the item was added one hour, fifty-two minutes earlier. —David Levy 22:30, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

picasso three women

Hi - I hope I can ask about this, but I was left some articles about Picasso, such as some erotic drawings and a picture of three naked women standing up. Should I keep these or dump them ? They were given to me from a friend who passed away . Any help you can give me would be grateful. Thanks, Lydia