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June 15

College

Can anyone give what they think is the single most invaluable tip reguarding searching for and applying for colleges and univeristies? --hello, i'm a member | talk to me! 06:13, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

I don't know if this question is appropriate for the Reference Desk, but this high school teacher has watched hundreds of students march off to college, and my best advice is this: Look for the kind of school that's right for you and don't try to be the student who's right for some school. Look past the familiar names of schools, and instead look at yourself. What kind of student are you? What environments have you thrived in, and what environments have you struggled in? The first question I'd ask myself about any school is whether or not the school is looking for someone like you. Mitchell k dwyer (talk) 07:47, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

That blows away my answer of looking for colleges where the student population is 90% the opposite sex. :-) StuRat (talk) 13:49, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Well, the thing is I don't know really which envioronments I've thrived or struggled in mostly because I've thirved and struggled in all of them, if you know what I mean. --hello, i'm a member | talk to me! 16:48, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Good evening. All though Mitchel K's advice is wonderful advice. As a high school student myself I have to look into college. I understand where you come from hello I'm a User. A lot of my environments that I go to I struggle because I am not a group person. I work independently and I don't get along with other people. What I would have to do when looking at a college is not only the environment, but what kind of person and what kind of work would I want to do. Because I am not a group person I would look for a program or course that I know won't have group projects. So not only do you have to look into environment, what kind of people, what environment you survive, and what environment you struggle, but you also have to look into what you want to do, what the school is going to provide you as person, and what are your goals. Certain schools will not help you complete the goals you want to complete. I hope I have helped. Have a positively wonderful evening.Rem Nightfall (talk) 20:57, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Money. My third child is starting college in the fall. As with the other two, we told her to apply to any public colleges in our state (Virginia) or schools that cost less than 1.5 times as much, or to any other schools if she had a compelling reason to spend more money, but she would need to apply for student loans for them. You can get a really great education and a really great college experience and most big colleges. If you can graduate debt-free, your life after college will be a lot easier. (Incidentally, she is going to McGill.) To lower your stress levels, apply to at least two "safety" schools that are certain to accept you. Apply to about four schools that you would really like to go to and that you have a good chance for acceptance. Apply to as many "stretch" schools as you want, but don't get your hopes up. Your best bet is to talk with current students at your candidate schools to get a feeling for the culture. Guidance counselors can tell you about your chances of getting accepted, but only current or recent students can tell you how it feels. -Arch dude (talk) 02:17, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

You can check out the culture at open days if that's convenient for you. You might prefer research-based subjects to a coursework style for example, or the reverse if you like a lot of structure – it depends on the field you want to go into. And though some people say just get in anywhere, you can transfer later, here in Oz, it's easier to transfer down than up (e.g. metropolitan college to provincial than the reverse) though there are exceptions. Best, Julia Rossi (talk) 06:49, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Single most important fact: In the real world, employers don't care much where you went to school or what your GPA was. They care about experience above all. So find a school that has good internship, co-op or work placement programs in your field, either directly connected with the school or in the surrounding area. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 23:48, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Give Me The Facts of the Yellow Summer Squeeze

Good evening. I was drinking some lemonade and then it came to me. A question and a thought. Why is lemonade considered a summer drink? What makes lemonade a summer drink? Why does everyone drink lemonade when it's hot outside? I drink lemonade summer and winter because I love lemonade. I love lemons. I am a lemon head. But back to the topic. Where in history has it made lemonade a summer drink? Thank you for answering my question. I really appreciate it.Rem Nightfall (talk) 07:13, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Who says it's a summer drink? It's just a drink. And not everyone drinks it. But people in countries with hot summers are more likely to consume cold drinks at that time to help them cool down and replace lost fluid.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 08:17, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

And, historically (before refrigeration and dehydration), fruit juices and drinks would only be consumed when that fruit was ripe. I'm guessing that lemons were ripe in the summer, versus apples in the fall. Now we can get any fruit juice year round, due to technology and importing them from the southern Hemisphere, where they have summer during our winter. StuRat (talk) 13:46, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Companies say it's a summer drink. I mean when I look for the powdered lemonade like Country Time or some other powdered lemonade I can only find it during the summer. Just like I only find powdered tea in the summer time as well. And if I do find powdered lemonade during the winter it's more expensive then what it would be in the summer same thing with powdered tea. I guess my question is more related to the powdered lemonade.Rem Nightfall (talk) 20:04, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

The main reason companies market "Seasonal" itams like that is to earn more money. It gives them an excuse to up the prices in the summer, since everyone wants it, and in the winter, since they can claim that it's less likely to be bought, and therefore should cost more. Same with other products, like diamonds. Who planted the idea that diamonds are highly romantic Valentine's Day presents? The diamond companies! --Ye Olde Luke (talk) 20:13, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

I have learned two new things about companies at this very moment. Companies like money and companies like to lie for money. I am not sure that is true, but it's what I infer. Would that mean that powdered lemonade is over priced?Rem Nightfall (talk) 21:02, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Dude, anything that you pay for that you could have made for free with a lemon tree and a juicer is overpriced. But if you mean in comparison to other consumer porducts, no, I'd say that companies charge the same rates for lemonade (proportionally) as they do for everything else. Lemonade is probably not high on their money-making radar, and therefore relatively safe from artificially inflated prices. (For an example of artificially inflated prices, see gasoline.) --Ye Olde Luke (talk) 00:05, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

The cost of the packaging exceeds the cost of the ingredients, I can guarantee that! --Danh, 70.59.115.72 (talk) 00:00, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

As a fruit of warm climates, it figures, but it's also used in hot drinks with honey for a sore throat, though it's not called lemonade then. Julia Rossi (talk) 02:55, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

The First Peoples Millionaire

I am a over 50s British born and bred gent. If a million people (or more) send me 1 English pound (or more) will it make me the first ever 'Peoples Millionaire'? Has this been done before? In return I would lavish in a wee bit of luxury which sadly has been lacking since birth. How many people do you think would participate in this unique venture? Tonic Love (talk) 13:26, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

It's not that original of an idea. See chain letter. Dismas|^(talk) 14:30, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, but it is only unusual in that it has been updated. My mother (died last year at 94) used to say if everyone in England gave her a penny...~~DT —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.9.214.164 (talk) 14:50, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

The lottery has been doing this for hundreds of years. Well, almost this. At least, people pay a pound and then a lot of money gets given to someone. Although it wasn't with anywhere near as much money until very recently.HS7 (talk) 18:45, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Have a read of The Million Dollar Homepage. Which was a clever idea, but pretty much a one off. Rockpocket 05:26, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

I used to work for a guy who besides a legitimate business did this sort of scam as well.He ended up in jail.hotclaws 03:17, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Mr Mugabe

Is it just me or do Zimbabwe's President Mugabe's eyes look blue/grey? --124.254.77.148 (talk) 14:47, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

I...guess so. With the pic on Wikipedia it's kinda hard to make out. (But oh boy can you zoom in with it!) --Ye Olde Luke (talk) 20:17, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

His eye color can be whatever you imagine them to be. Eye color, hair color, skin pigment, it is all really what we perceive it to be. It is the color that we see through the prism of light. Anyway, yes you can super zoom into that picture. You can see every living wrinkle on his face, but he looks a little sad. Then again that is what I perceive from the picture. Hope I have helped or started a fight. Have a positively wonderful evening.Rem Nightfall (talk) 21:11, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Mugabe is a man of years. And people generally lose about 15% of their eye pigmentation over their lives. Though for brown eyed people (all sub-saharan africans), this reduction is nowhere near enough to change the colour of the eyes. You may have spotted a case of uveitis that was undiagnosed. Maybe his optician was afraid to tell him (lest he "dissappear") :-) Fribbler (talk) 23:03, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Maybe no-one mentioned cataracts for the same reason. Or they did! X-\ Julia Rossi (talk) 02:50, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Rail Interoperation

Hi. Does anyone know why it is that rail service interoperation between different rail companies only seems to occur in Japan and not in any other countries. Thanks in advance. Tbo ¹⁵⁷(talk) 16:48, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

The UK has different companies operating on the same network too. Fribbler (talk) 17:42, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Canada too. Adam Bishop (talk) 18:44, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

So its possible to travel on 3 different lines, maintained by different companies, on the same train without chainging in Canada? For example in Japan, a train managed by company A could run through onto tracks managed by company B. At that point all operationswitche to company B and the only thing in common with the 2 services is that they use the same train. In the UK, I think the whole network is managed by network rail and TOCs bid for diagrams. Thanks. Tbo ¹⁵⁷(talk) 19:23, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Operation of the train does not switch over as the train moves between tracks. VIA Rail is the only national train service, and there are some regional ones like AMT. VIA I have seen on CN-owned tracks, and the AMT article explains that that AMT operates exclusively on other company's tracks. While they are still operated by the companies that own the trains, they doubtless work with the company that owns the tracks to ensure everything goes smoothly. 206.126.170.20 (talk) 22:50, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Under that definition, the U.S. Amtrak would qualify as it usually runs on other companies' tracks - sometimes into another country. I think we need to clarify what the question is. Rmhermen (talk) 23:34, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Kirtland Arkansas 1868

An ancestor is said to be buried in Kirtland Arkansas in 1868. I cannot find anyone who knows where or if Kirtland existed. It is supposed to be just over the border of Barry Co. Mo. His name was Pleasant Henry Trower. Was there ever such a community, and where can I find it's history? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.2.145.63 (talk) 17:32, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Good evening. Could this help www.shawhan.com/Trower/RR01/RR01_003.HTML - 16k. Hope I have helped.Rem Nightfall (talk) 21:06, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Could it be Kirkland, Arkansas? There appears to be a Kirkland in Ouachita County. Corvus cornix_talk 21:12, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Paint Fumes

Hey My mom's painting in our house...and there's some paint fumes. The house is pretty small...and if I'm here, will I be okay?? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.23.67.226 (talk) 19:27, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Good day. You should be fine if you have a few windows open to let the fumes escape out of the house. I hope I have helped. Have a positively wonderful day.Rem Nightfall (talk) 20:01, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Unless you die of paint fumes. Just kidding. --Ye Olde Luke (talk) 20:18, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

If it's just ordinary household paint, I wouldn't worry - especially since it's presumably a one-off. Except with seriously nasty stuff, it's only if you're using it day in, day out (ie for work) that you need to worry. The smell can be annoying, though - I have heard (though not tried it myself) that cutting an onion in half and putting it in the room will reduce it. 81.187.153.189 (talk) 21:15, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Do leave the windows open overnight and if you get a headache go out and breathe some fresh air. Next time there is painting to be done, try and get your mother to choose a paint with a lower level of volatile organic compounds, for example a mineral paint rather than emulsion. It is better for the wider environment as well as the environment in the house. Itsmejudith (talk) 22:24, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Now what was that policy about "no medical advice" again? I'd say telling someone that "you should be fine if you have a few windows open to let the fumes escape" pretty clearly violates the spirit, if not the letter of that rule. Especially since we have no way of telling what kind of fumes they are (since the original poster didn't even specify the type of paint) or how much of them there might be. Personally, I'd say the only safe advice we can give is that if you know there are fumes, and especially if you can smell them, you shouldn't stay there any longer than you have to. It's possible that the fumes might not be harmful — but it's also possible that they could be, and there's no way anyone on the Internet can tell you for sure. —Ilmari Karonen (talk) 22:35, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

So...are you saying to assume the worst? That if there is any type of paint that could concivably be fatal in this situation, then we should assume it is applicable and prepare the poster for the worst? --Ye Olde Luke (talk) 23:56, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Look, paint fumes probably won't kill you, but they're not pleasant and they'll give you a nasty headache. At the very least keep the windows open. If you can, find somewhere else to spend the day. Just don't spend any more time around the fumes than you have to, okay? And if you have any pets, make sure they're outside. That includes mini aquariums or anything that shares the same air supply you do (even if it's an animal that breathes underwater). Your critters may be more susceptible than you are. -Aletheia —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.104.139.75 (talk) 04:09, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

I think it sad that the OP did not appear to have any concern for his mother's safety, nor, more pertinently, had he seemed to bother to read the paint tin label which would have informed him of the possible risk - or more likely - lack of. Richard Avery (talk) 07:15, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

And how heartwarming to notice that nobody else worries about your mom who keeps her nose in close proximity to a fumingly hot paint brush dipped in Dulux psychedelic maryjane green emulsion. The diligent lady is probably high enough to paint the ceiling without the aid of a ladder, yodelling "Legalise it" and splattering polka dots around whilst you are submerged in the bath tub wearing scuba gear and oxygen tanks to ensure your olfactory survival.

But wait, is your mum the querent below with anosmia who asks a seminal question? --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 07:51, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Don't know what effect the fumes will have on you, but to cut down the smell, place saucers of milk with half a peeled onion in them, at various places in your house 195.188.254.82 (talk) 12:46, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Cats

How are they able to land on their feet after falling from high hights 9/10 times? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.101.1.186 (talk) 21:15, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

I guess they're just agile and have a good sense of balance. There are slow-motion videos and picture-sequences of falling cats in which one can see them actively twisting their bodies into a feet-downwards position. 81.187.153.189 (talk) 21:26, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Good evening. We have a cat article you may like to read. I believe the cats can jump from such height places has to do with their spinal cord and leg bones. But I think you should trust the cat article more then inaccurate guessing. I hope I have helped. Have a wonderful evening.Rem Nightfall (talk) 21:25, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

It may not be entirely true that most cats who jump multiple stories survive. Remember that the non-surviving cats rarely get taken to the vet. My friend the vet tech says she sees cats injured in falls from balconies pretty regularly. -FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 21:49, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Yes, though also realize that your friend, the vet tech, doesn't see any of the cats that survive such falls without any injury at all. So, her perception is one sided. Dismas|^(talk) 04:02, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Their tails help them balance. Their bodies are built for jumping, so they know how to land. They weren't designed to fall several stories per se, but their body structure is designed for balance and proper weight distribution. The human body absolutely isn't built for it, and we don't have instinctual knowledge of the "right" way to fall and most of us have never learned (bend your knees if it's a short jump and you're landing on your feet; falling from a height, don't even try to land on your feet, just protect your head and neck). Also, for the cat, some practice enters into it. A year ago my family's little Snowbell was a tiny kitten and she was very clumsy so it was a good thing she never got up very far. Now she climbs everything, but she's done enough falling in the past to have achieved graceful mastery. - Aletheia —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.104.139.75 (talk) 03:59, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

If a cat always lands on it's feet and toast always lands butter-side down, how would a cat with butter spread on it's back land when I push him off the table ? StuRat (talk) 04:48, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

StuRat, are you just shilling for this article: Buttered cat paradox? WHAAOE!

Atlant (talk) 13:52, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Wow, Wikipedia even has articles on jokes that I pilfer. I see I need to use more original material. (That joke was a bit stale, perhaps even rancid, hardly "the cat's meow".) :-) StuRat (talk) 14:24, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Here is a little slide show that demonstrates how cats do it - it's a trick involving a flexible body, a low terminal velocity, and conservation of angular momentum. Karl Kruszelnicki (Dr Karl) has written about it in one of his books, where he quotes a New York vetinary hospital study that showed that cats falling from 7 floors were highly unlikely to survive, whereas those falling from over 11 got away with mostly minor injuries, thanks to this trick. Confusing Manifestation(Say hi!) 07:10, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Isn't the reason for this IIRC that one cats approach their terminal velocity, they relax more since they don't sense the acceleration hence are more likely to survive? Ergo ~ 7 floors is the worst Nil Einne (talk) 02:34, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

June 16

Football (soccer) boots

What is the difference between firm ground and soft ground boots? It seems pretty logical, I know, but firm ground boots also have studs which I don't think would be very good for playing on concrete for example. So what exactly is the difference between these two types? --212.120.247.132 (talk) 03:56, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Well i'm guessing this is another way of differentiating between moulded-studs and screw-in studs? If so then the difference I found is that moulded studs give slightly less grip in anything but perfect conditions, but that normal studs are less effective in really dry/hard-soil because they don't dig in as well and so you get less grip. All original research but throughout my life as a football-mad-child (now man) I have always preferred 'proper' football boots compared to moulded ones. Also you can often get away with moulded-boots on Astro-turf pitches, but can't wear proper studs on them (at least not in the leagues I play in). 194.221.133.226 (talk) 08:34, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

These days, boots with moulded studs, often referred to in the UK as "blades", and best for hard surfaces like astroturf are commonly used by professional players playing on grass, even when it's soft underfoot. It usually prompts grizzled commentators on TV and radio to moan about the player's choice of footwear when he slides over conceeding/missing a vital opportunity. On concrete, I think most people would opt for regular trainers ("sneakers", I think?) with decent treads, rather than any kind of studs. --Dweller (talk) 20:34, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Yacht without a ladder

I'm working on a novel in which the climax takes place on board a yacht, or at least I would like it to. My protagonist, Denise, is persuaded by the antagonist (let's call her BG for Bad Guy) to go for a swim in the ocean. At some point, either because BG pulls back or cuts the rope ladder or there never was a rope ladder in the first place, Denise realizes there's no way for her to get back on board the yacht. They're too far out for Denise to swim to shore, as BG's intention all along was to leave her to drown. My question is: how can Denise survive this? If possible, I'd like her to have some sort of underwater struggle and get back onboard the yacht. - Aletheia James—Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.104.139.75 (talk) 04:23, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

How about if BG brings the boat back to run her over and finish her, but she dives underwater, grabs some big pieces of seaweed, wraps them around the prop, and thus causes it to seize up ? Then she climbs up the prop and outboard engine into the boat. StuRat (talk) 04:42, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Older yachts had an overhanging stern, hard to climb up or mount an outboard on. Modern yachts sometimes have a square transom with an outboard and ladder, others have a well: very easy to get into. Even motor boats with a square transom and inboard engine often have a couple of projecting trim tabs you could grab and clamber up. I like the seaweed though, more inventive and dramatic. For the movie I'm sure they would substitute her bikini top... Mhicaoidh (talk) 05:08, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Hmmmm . . . not a bad idea. Denise might be clinging to the fragment of the rope ladder, if BG cuts it off while she's trying to climb back up, so maybe she could use that too. I think I'll have to find someone who actually owns a yacht who can give me a little tour and show me what exactly would or wouldn't be climbable, but I'll definitely consider that stopping-the-propeller-from-under-the-boat idea. Oh yeah - brownie points to Mhicaoidh for thinkin' I'll get a movie deal!  :) - Aletheia James —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.104.139.75 (talk) 05:58, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

This is actually a well known urban marine (?) story based on several occurrences of finding empty yachts drifting with bloody scratches all around the hull caused by the panicking swimmers as they desperately try to get back on board. So that goes to show that it is indeed very hard to get back on board a sailing boat when there is no ladder. I assume your boat is not at anchor as that would just be too easy. It cannot really be under way either as Denise would be left behind in a matter of second (in this case she would have to grab something as she falls but still holding on to a rope while in the water and the boat under way is just impossible - try it). Anyway, so the boat must be stopped but not at anchor. I'm sorry I have to dismiss the 'use the propeller as a first step to go back on board' as this is too unrealistic. If you swim by even a small 30 feet sailboat, you will hardly be able to touch the prop with the tip of your toes without having your head under the water. This said there are various 'classic' ways she might be able to get back on board. First at various places on the hull she will find evacuation holes, for grey water, for the engine cooling system, for water evacuation from the anchor pit etc. These would be very hard to use to get back on board but she might break a few nails trying it. Now any rope that might be hanging from the boat can be used to haul herself up. The thing is that any noise she would make would spread through the hull and the assailant would hear it. One solution could be to have the sails flapping in the wind (very noisy). This would inevitably send part of the forward sails rope into the water, at about mid point between the sail and the cockpit. As she grabs it it would pull the sail closer to the wind which would fill it and pull her enough to give her additional help getting back on board. I'm afraid these are not very original ideas but definitely realistic. I think if you are serious about your book you should definitely research this yourself by asking a boat owner to take you for a try out at sea. Or you could rent one with a skipper for a day, or even just an afternoon. My two cents, and good luck with the book. 200.127.59.151 (talk) 18:05, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Bah humbug. What kind of story is that? BG and G meet up on yatch. BG decides to kill G. Not entirely original here in the idea department either. Then the most cliche thing BG and G go swimming BG cuts ladder or rope. What kind of story is this? Yeah you'll probably get a movie deal because they like cliche like this. Why don't you look at your story again and think of a more original idea? I'm just saying your idea needs a little work.

Always

Cardinal Raven

Cardinal Raven (talk) 20:00, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

... --Wirbelwindヴィルヴェルヴィント (talk) 21:05, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

I think you misunderstood the question. The OP was asking about a specific factual detail, not for your critique of her idea. -FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 21:26, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Okay my last answer was a bit rude without helping. I'm sorry. If you want to get the lady cut off the yatch rope maybe you should watch a show called Mythbusters. They did something similar to that and it should help you. I hope. Now I can't remember the episode number, but you should watch. Especially if have many other ideas like propelling a dude off the roof with a handmade jet pack. Mythbusters should help, let just hope.

Always

Cardinal Raven

Cardinal Raven (talk) 21:54, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Thank you FisherQueen. I'm well aware that the idea is rather cliched. My novel is a psychological thriller, not an action adventure. I'm hoping the originality will be in the dialogue, thought processes, and relationships, not the occasional action sequence. My reason for wanting this particular type of climax, which will require extra research for me when I know so little about boating lore, is for irony considering necessary elements of the plot and as a sort of subtle tribute to a couple of my favorite movies. Thanks for recommending Mythbusters, Cardinal Raven - I'll see if I can track that one down. I've seen a few episodes and they are always quite enlightening and entertaining. - Aletheia James —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.104.139.75 (talk) 18:03, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

The movie/book Dead Calm might give you some ideas.hotclaws 03:21, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Smell

Hello, I have a quick question, that's probably pretty unusual. I have Anosmia, which means I can't smell anything. It's hereditary so I've actually never smelled anything in my life. And I'm just wondering, does semen have a smell? Is it distinct and recognizable? Thanks. 76.8.208.7 (talk) 04:24, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

To the first, yes. It's fairly light though. To the second, I don't know as I've never happened upon an instance when I've said "What's that smell?" and have it be followed by "Semen." in order to compare the two. Dismas|^(talk) 04:50, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Semen smell is pretty distinctive. Its often described as smelling like laundry rooms, swimming pools or hospitals. This is because semen contains pentamethylenediamine (also known as cadaverine, a decarboxylation product of the amino acid lysine), spermine and spermidine. These compounds all smell a bit like bleach or ammonia, which are found in the aforementioned places. Rockpocket 05:10, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Which explains why it stings if it gets into your eyes (don't ask ..). -- JackofOz (talk) 08:55, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

TMI, Jack, T-M-I. Zain Ebrahim (talk) 12:10, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

There was a bit on The Office where a stripper is entertaining the office crowd and sitting on the dopey manager's lap, and he comments innocently, "You smell nice. Like Tide".  :) --Sean 13:53, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Hard to imagine a situation when you WOULD be exposed to enough semen to be able to smell it distinctly, without already knowing what it was that you were smelling. And frankly, I'm not sure that's something I want to imagine. - Aletheia —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.104.139.75 (talk) 05:54, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

You've presumably never tried to clean a teenaged son's bedroom, then. Grutness...wha? 02:23, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

i take that you are not a man then Aletheia, as we come (snigger, snigger) across the situation all the time 195.188.254.82 (talk) 12:38, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Yes, I'm a woman. And happy to say I have never been confused by the smell of my own bodily fluids. - Aletheia —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.104.139.75 (talk) 16:58, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Urban national borders

You can cross a national border inside Rome, by entering the Vatican City. You used to be able to cross a national border (albeit with some trouble) in Berlin. Are there any other places where there is an urban national border? Perhaps a wikilist? 130.56.65.24 (talk) 05:28, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

I can think of a bunch just in Ontario/Michigan and Ontario/New York (Detroit/Windsor, Sarnia/Port Huron, Niagara Falls, numerous other places along the Niagara River and the St. Lawrence. But I get the impression I have misunderstood the question...do you mean a border entirely contained within a city? Adam Bishop (talk) 07:24, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

The Canadian/U.S. border divides a town on the Vermont/Quebec border in half. Even splits a factory in half. Can't remember the name of the town off the top of my head though... Dismas|^(talk) 08:52, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Dismas may be thinking of Rock Island and Derby Line.

There are several places on the US/Mexico border with urban land on both sides, such as San Diego / Tijuana. Basel in Switzerland has suburbs in both France and Germany; Geneva has suburbs in France. The capitals of the two countries called Congo face each other across the Congo River. And then of course there's Monaco, which is perhaps most like the Vatican situation: pretty much the whole country is urban and the urban area extends beyond its borders into France. --Anonymous, 09:02 UTC, June 16, 2008.

Derby Line, Vermont is it. I had just Googled it because I couldn't think of it. Thanks, Anon. Dismas|^(talk) 09:04, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Border town is worth checking out for a list of such places. Grutness...wha? 11:54, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Nicosia in Cyprus is still a divided city. Fribbler (talk) 11:57, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

I once read about a bar on the US/Canada border where the line was marked with a stripe on the floor. If you were 18-20 years of age, you had to cross to the Canada side to be of age to order a beer. --Sean 13:55, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

For a couple more examples, we have Jerusalem divided between Israel and Palestine and Sault Ste. Marie, Michigan/Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario divided between the US and Canada. StuRat (talk) 14:13, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

To be fair, it should be noted that many of the cities nominally on the U.S./Canada border are separated by significant bodies of water. The two Niagara Falls are divided by the Niagara River and (unsurprisingly) Niagara Falls. Detroit and Windsor sit on opposite sides of the Detroit River. Sarnia and Port Huron have the St. Clair River between them, while the two Sault Ste. Maries face each other across the St. Marys River. And of those cities, I would only categorize Detroit as a major center (its population is about one million people). Windsor is the second-largest city on this list with a population of about two hundred thousand; all the other cities have fewer – often quite a bit fewer – than a hundred thousand residents. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 15:14, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Border between Belgium and the Netherlands

The Schengen Agreement page has some photos of international borders in urban places (which due to the agreement are open borders now). One photo to the right here. Another shows the border going through a building. Another is in a urban environment. Pfly (talk) 18:20, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Many thanks for your answers. Yes I was after specifically places where the national border runs through an urban area (such as along a particular street (thus border town is just what I want). The US-Canada border is a relatively obvious one, but my US geography is sketchy (I'm Australian - we don't have any land borders). I have decided I must go to some of these places - it's an eccentricity of mine. Steewi (talk) 01:27, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Then you must hit Nicosia, Mostar and Berlin (even if it isn't divided now, the mentality remains. Fribbler (talk) 01:31, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

For anyone still following, I just found divided cities, a list of cities in the situation I described (and thanks Fribbler). Steewi (talk) 02:17, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

nightmares and irrational fears

I keep having these bad dreams that Margaret Thatcher blames me for her resignation and downfall and has set Norman Tebbitt on me, and this 1980's band called the Flying Pickets want me to appear in their new video. It's got so bad that I won't go down to my local Sainsbury's as I'm afraid of who I'm going to bump into. How can I quell these nightmares? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Freller Mellon (talk • contribs) 09:46, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

best thing to do is to try to work out why those particular images keep occurring in your dreams. What are your feelings about Thatcher's downfall? Of the song "Only you"? Or - perhaps more realistically, consider the term "flying picket" and the Thatcher years. Are you somehow subconsciously worried about worker/boss relations? If you can try to make some sense of the dream, it quite often makes it less likely to recur. Mind you, considering that last night I dreamt that my name was Robbie Robertson (and had to keep telling people "no, not the guitarist") and that I was trying to enrol at a college in Israel during an air raid, who am I to talk? Grutness...wha? 12:00, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

I don't agree with Grunt. The most simple thing is to take control of your dreams. You only dream what you want to dream. If this is a true nightmare you shouldn't even have to think about it. You should just dream what you want. When you close your eyes think of something. A white pony with magical wings. That is the image that should pop up. Just think of what you want to dream. Take control of your dreams and don't let your dreams take control of you.

Always

Cardinal Raven

Cardinal Raven (talk) 20:04, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

"Grunt"??? Please check my username before you ruin it! And "you only dream what you want to dream" is completely wrong unless you lucid dream all the time, which is exceptionally rare. Grutness...wha? 01:06, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Hi. Yes, but that doesn't always work. Especially if it's a vivid nightmare, the setting is often difficult to control. Also see lucid dreaming, but most nightmares are unlikely to be lucid. Thanks. ~AH1^(TCU) 21:25, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

In a article in a magazine I believe was called Science News a scientist had talked about how our dreams affect each other. That certain dreams reflect reality and others are just mere fantasies. Certain nightmares can be controlled by the thought of another fantasy or want, or just another dream.(Most of my dreams are lucid so if I dream something I don't want to I change it.)But some people can't do that. You can train yourself to though. Anyway I just wanted to add another opportunity or another idea of controlling a dream.

Always

Cardinal Raven

Cardinal Raven (talk) 22:00, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Very few people can do that, and training yourself to be able to is very tricky, to say the least. A major problem is being aware that you are dreaming while you are dreaming, which is often not possible, even when the elements of the dream seem preposterous to our awake minds. Yes, if you can do that it's a fine method, but for most people it's not practical. In any case, trying to deal with the underlying cause is a far better long term solution than simply trying to avoid the dream (which is most likely a symptom of some other worries). Grutness...wha? 01:06, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Learning to have lucid dreams may help, but it's not easy (being highly aware of your dreams is a good first step, though) and even those of us who are lucid dreamers rarely have complete control of every dream. However, sometimes just knowing you're dreaming, even if you have trouble changing what's going on, can be very comforting. (If you ARE able to control your dream in whole or in part, you're in for a fantastic experience!) For dealing with your nightmares here and now, though, do try to understand what they're telling you. Also, think about any changes that have occurred in your body recently. Are you on any new medications, for example? Some medications can cause bizarre dreams; fortunately, this effect becomes a little less severe with time. Try falling asleep thinking of something positive and good that you'd like to dream about, or imagining the voice of someone you perceive as a benevolent authority, telling you that you will have good dreams tonight and wake up feeling refreshed and ready to start the day. (Autosuggestion is a very powerful tool.) If the nightmares persist, you may wish to seek professional help. -Aletheia —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.104.139.75 (talk) 18:13, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Vote Labour is all I can think ofhotclaws 03:25, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

stupid

People say I look like a stupid fool.Gradually even I am finding myself a one.I am a 20 yr old guy but I look childish both mentally and physically.Now I can hit the gym and look like arnie but what about my mental configuration.Like a child I am still attracted to all the bling bling and anything which is jazzy.On the other hand I am reluctant to leave my whole personality and start a new one.How can I start looking MACHO? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.246.173.175 (talk) 12:58, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

You don't want to leave your personality behind just because other people think it is childish; you have your tastes and your personality, and that's part of who you are. What you could do is try to develop other tastes as well, so that you can join in and blend in with other people when necessary. To do that, just try exposing yourself to a variety of things that you think the people you're trying to blend in with would find tasteful and mature. Hopefully you'll find a thing or two that you can enjoy in amongst all of this, and that will lead you to others. Then you can use these things around those people who you think you need to be more 'mature' around, and enjoy the jazzier stuff when they're not around. Also, bear in mind that there's nothing wrong with a supposedly 'childish' personality; it can bring you great pleasure in little things, and can keep your mind flexible and open. 79.66.45.237 (talk) 13:25, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Note that many would consider the desire to look macho to be immature. I also think that as many women are repulsed by a man wearing gold chains over his hairy chest with the shirt open to the waist as are attracted by this image. StuRat (talk) 14:01, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

I am over 70 and still am being told I am childish. But only by those who feel they are adults and so responsible for others' actions. Nosey parkers and do-gooders in other words. Do try not to grow up. And I looked so young that I still got into the cinema at half-price when I was 26. So don't worry. Life is good if you don't take it too seriously.90.9.87.150 (talk) 14:12, 16 June 2008 (UTC)DT

Good day. The other at top gave you some nice advice. I will try to follow in their footsteps. Another thing you should see that might be considered immature is listening to what people say. And letting their words control your life. What I mean is that they call you "stupid" and "childish" you let those comments make you change who you are. Never listen to people like that. You are right for you. They are right for them. I'm right for myself. You have to be happy with who you are and not let others control who you are. Now that doesn't mean you can't change aspects of your personality you don't like. It means you don't change for anyone else accept yourself. I hope I have helped and I hope that my words will be taken in consideration. Have a positively wonderful day.Rem Nightfall (talk) 16:30, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Irritation and frustration

I am irritated by many things.I am irritated about superpower america dominating on less powerful nations.I am frustrated about arrogant people who are both good looking and smart.I am irritated abut hollywood which portrays americans as impeccable and people of other countries as pure rouges.I am frustrated abut hypocritical people who are leading rich lives. I am irritated because we are not good as we think so.The list is endless and so is my misery.Please help me feel happy about something. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.246.173.175 (talk) 13:21, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Options:

1)Find a happy news story, although you'll have to watch which news source you use as there can be severe values dissonance. Try here or here perhaps.

2)Find something you can do about one of the things that irritates you, whether it's campaigning for political change, awareness raising, charity work, making your own film that portrays the world as you see it, etc. Then repeat whatever version of the serenity prayer helps you (the sentiment is good, no matter what you think of prayer itself

The US only tries to control nations which pose a threat to the US or other nations. You will find very little US attempt to control Tuvalo, for example. Also consider the altenatives. If the Soviet Union had developed nuclear weapons first, they no doubt would have carried out their stated plan to conquer the world for communism. Or, if neither side had nuclear weapons, the Soviet Union would have continued on to conquer Western Europe as well as Eastern Europe. The US, on the other hand, didn't use them to conquer any nation after Japan (which, of course, posed a severe threat to the US during WW2). The US then gave Japan independence. We may soon end up with a world dominated by China, whose pro-genocide stance in Darfur, Sudan and Myanmar/Burma, occupation of Tibet, support for the rogue nation of North Korea, desire to conquer Taiwan, and abysmal ecological record will make the world into a much worse place. StuRat (talk) 13:50, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Sturat, I would suggest that that comment is unlikely to be helpful and is likely to feed into some of the very things the person finds irritating. I would also suggest that any replies which attempt to rebut Sturat's points above are likely to lead to political debate on the desks. Perhaps Stu could extend an invitation to his talk page for anyone who is tempted to engage in political debate? 79.66.45.237 (talk) 14:07, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Sure, debate is always welcome there. StuRat (talk) 14:19, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Try getting up before dawn one summer's morning. Sit quietly in the garden and watch, with wonder, how another lovely day begins.90.9.87.150 (talk) 14:09, 16 June 2008 (UTC)petitmichel

Firstly try reading some balanaced political media rather than the moralistic stuff that many channels pump out (both sides over-simplify their arguemnts and over-state the benefits/pitfalls of their idea compared to their opponents). Secondly be slow to judge people, states or situations - rarely do people make sound judgements - the story is always more complex than you imagine it to be. Remember this - both sides in a war think they are fighting fo the just-cause, history usually decides which we consider to have been the most just. Finally - don't let bad news get you down. It's everywhere, all the time but so is good news. Unfortunately the story of a man helping save the life of 10 people in country Y isn't going to get the coverage that a man shooting 10 people in country Z will. Remember good things happen every day. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.221.133.226 (talk) 14:46, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

I feel your pain, OP - oh wait, do you hate the phrase "I feel your pain" as much as I do? Anyways, I'm irritated and frustrated by the same things you are. My suggestions to make you happy? Take a break from worrying about the cares of the world and do something purely for fun. Cultivate your spirituality (even if it's just to get in touch with your own better self). Break the mold of arrogance and hypocrisy, and do something generous and loving for someone else. And if possible, go to your local animal shelter and adopt a dog, and you'll never be wanting for joy, love, and laughter in your life again, no matter how idiotic humanity gets. - Aletheia —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.104.139.75 (talk) 17:11, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Troll bridge question

If someone demands money in exchange for passage on a bridge, road, etc., and is not legally entitled to do so, what crime have they committed ? StuRat (talk) 14:29, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

My first thought was that it would be a form of extortion, but I'm not finding any good sources to back that up... --Onorem♠Dil 14:36, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Here's an article where it's described as extortion. I wouldn't doubt that there's still a more specific term though. --Onorem♠Dil 14:40, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

It is not necessarily extortion. If the payee believes that the toll is legal, and the receiver acts to appear that it is legal, it would be deceit. 80.58.205.37 (talk) 15:13, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

If the person they're demanding money from actually gives them the money, under false pretenses, that certainly qualifies as con artistry. Call it deceit, call it swindling, call it whatever you want - they've committed theft. - Aletheia —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.104.139.75 (talk) 17:02, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

But I still want to know what the legal charge against them would be. Does "extortion" still apply if there is no threat against the victim other than blocking their path ? StuRat (talk) 18:36, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Misrepresentation? Fraud? Demanding money under false pretences? Extortion? Impersonation for the purposes of defrauding members of the public? I'm sure they could find something that would stick. Exxolon (talk) 18:52, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

The precise charges on the indictment will depend on the jurisdiction. Offences like fraud, extortion, and theft will have slightly different definitions in different places; it's also possible that the crime might fit under several different statutes. Some jurisdictions may even have specific offences enshrined in law along the lines of "impersonating an agent of the FooNational Freeway System". TenOfAllTrades(talk) 19:22, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Trolls are usually under the bridge anyway. Why bother paying? Matt Deres (talk) 17:52, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Risky strategy unless you have an older, juicier brother ready to cross the bridge after you. 79.66.85.219 (talk) 12:57, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Surely the answer is trolling? (NB the usual punishment is starvation.) --Dweller (talk) 20:28, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Identify the Arrows

On bins, milk cartons, cans of cola - just about anywhere, I keep seeing this sign with three arrows chasing each other. What does it symbolize? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tonic Love (talk • contribs) 15:15, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Recycling. Zain Ebrahim (talk) 15:18, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Sometimes it's associated with the motto "Reduce, Reuse, Recycle." It's an all-around logo for environmental friendliness. On a milk carton, soda can, or anything else disposable, it means you can recycle it. On a bin, it means you can put your recyclables there and they'll be hauled off to a recycling plant instead of the dump. - Aletheia —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.104.139.75 (talk) 17:00, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

"On a milk carton, soda can, or anything else disposable, it means you can recycle it."
This is not always true at all. On plastics that symbol with a number in it indicates the type of plastic. However not all plastics can be recycled, and some are so difficult to recycle that most places don't bother. APL (talk) 19:38, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

In NZ, while 1-2 are recycled by most places, 1-6 are now recycled in at least some places Nil Einne (talk) 02:15, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

See Recycling symbol and, for the ones on plastics, Resin identification code. —Ilmari Karonen (talk) 21:36, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

There's a sorting section here[1]. Julia Rossi (talk) 01:26, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

iPods

Now days, almost every single MP3 players looks like a variation on the iPod's flat-rectangle-scrollwheel-under-a-square-screen, did iPod create this layout or did they copy from someone else?

No offence to Apple fans, of course :) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.240.203.201 (talk) 16:21, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

There's this (http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/art/2008/01/apple_braun_ive_rams.html) which is an interesting read about design-similarities between apple (inlcuding the iPod and most things designed by Jonathan Ives) and older-products... Infact the who classics of everyday design series has been a very enjoyable read so far (http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/art/2006/11/jonathan_glanceys_wonders_of_e.html) ny156uk (talk) 17:58, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Not sure if they copied Creative or it was just a patent fight. --Wirbelwindヴィルヴェルヴィント (talk) 20:56, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Possibilty Of Life

Here is a thought. Life cannot exist without a sustainable atmosphere, water, and oxygen. Yet, we have creatures who survive in the most complicated or extreme environments. So what is to say that no other life on other planets cannot exist? If life here has learn to cope with certain environments then why cannot life on other planets with thinner atmospheres not cope with the methane in the air. Why are we searching for another Earth? We might not be able to live in such environment, but another species might. That is why we call them aliens. They have evolved to adapt to their home. Why don't we see that as a possibility? Why do we only see as you need water and oxygen? There might be life that has learned to survive in an even more harsh environment. From what we have learned from this planet and the coping of many animals we should be able to infer something of that level. So, why don't we?

Thank You

Always

Cardinal Raven

Cardinal Raven (talk) 19:55, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Err, who says the people who study such things make all the assumptions you say they're making? You might look at extraterrestrial life and alternative biochemistry for starters. Friday (talk) 20:30, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Well most of the people who don't make those assumptions are probably not on television. Half of the documentaries I watch they say that life is not possible on the other planets because there isn't enough oxygen and water. Or it's to hot, to cold, etc.

Always

Cardinal Raven

Cardinal Raven (talk) 20:42, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

I think that those people are specifically talking about the other planets in our solar system, not all the planets in the universe. -FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 21:24, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Why would that matter? As for the stuff they say on TV, often times you'll hear people talking about "life as we know it" rather than just "life" to allow for the possibility of weird stuff we don't know about. Friday (talk) 21:27, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

) I suppose I see.Cardinal Raven (talk) 22:00, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

I often hear the requirements you listed being necessary for "life as we know it". That is, there may be other forms of life which are possible, but we don't really know. Therefore, the scientists limit conjecture to the life they do know about, which is carbon-based Earth life. You do have a valid point that this may very well cause us to skip over many other forms of life. Your question, BTW, was very good. StuRat (talk) 01:04, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

All I am saying with my question is this. If we don't look into that possibility even if we don't know much about silicon based creatures we can learn from study. If we don't look for something that could be unimaginable to us then we will never learn and may skip life. If we are only looking for planets and life forms like Earth we are only trying to find ourselves. We have to look far beyond what we know and dip ourselves into a deeper pool. We have to dive into the unknown to understand the unknown. If we never look, we'll never learn, if we never learn, we'll never understand, and if we don't understand then we don't know. The point is to know. Do I believe there is life? Yes, I believe there is life and I believe we have to open our minds and our thoughts to something beyond what we can comprehend. Because life exist, life copes, and life adapts. And these are what scientist should also consider. They should also consider the possibilities. Because possibilities can be endless, but once we understand the possibilities nothing can stop us.

Always

Cardinal Raven

Cardinal Raven (talk) 02:52, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

I agree, but scientists must make decisions based on probabilities. If they have a choice between landing a probe on Pluto or Titan, they must consider that life seems more likely on Titan. They could be wrong, of course, but that would be the best bet based on our experience with life on Earth. StuRat (talk) 03:52, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Yes, there are possibilities, and endless as you mentioned. And almost all of them are considered. See, Simulated reality for example. manya (talk) 03:56, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Well I didn't mean consideration in that sense. I mean the possibility of studying something we don't fully understand and then knowing it. That is fine and dandy, they can send a probe onto Titan and yet, they can have someone else study Pluto. Maybe what we need is an Earth alien team and a Unknown Substance Alien team. So we can study both possibilities. And understand so much more about life. And maybe the most that would come out of studying both is that we fine life. May it be primitive then us or far more intelligent then us.

Always

Cardinal Raven

Cardinal Raven (talk) 04:20, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

The problem is they only have so many resources, sending a probe to either of those places is extremely expensive and a huge undertaking, and there's only so much you can learn with telescopes. There are just too many places to look so they have to narrow the search down, and the easiest way to do that is by looking for the kinds of environments that we know can support life. 192.45.72.26 (talk) 15:12, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Philadelphia Zoo

How much does a single day, adult pass cost to the Philadelphia Zoo?--Endless Dan 20:22, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Have a look at their website: [2] Prices a plenty! Fribbler (talk) 20:28, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

I can't. I don't have access to the internet (other then Wikipedia and encyclopedia websites). --Endless Dan 20:39, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Oh, right. $17.95 in high season (march-november). It's pricey enough. But I suppose it's a full day out. Fribbler (talk) 20:42, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks! You think its pricey? I think 17.95 is a good deal. --Endless Dan 20:52, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

After looking at the equivalent price here in Ireland, it seems to be the going rate. Enjoy! Fribbler (talk) 20:57, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Silent Deskers

I'd check these reference desks fairly regularly but rarely contribute anything. I've probably read pretty much everything posted for the past six months or so. Obviously the same names frequently show up on the various boards asking and answering question and you have some names ask or answer once, not to be seen again. My question is; are there many people that frequently visit the boards but remain pretty much invisible. (Of course if there are they probably won't answer.) Just curious. Stanstaple (talk) 20:29, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

I lurked in the shadows for a long time before I started to contribute. I'd imagine there are many who just like to read the questions and answers. No way to tell how many, though, that I'm aware of. Fribbler (talk)

I was here for a few months before I finally started to contribute days ago.The Reader who Writes (talk) 20:50, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

I enjoy reading the Q&As found on the reference desk. It's actually my favorite part of Wikipedia. --Endless Dan 20:53, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

I read them all twice daily but don't have time to reply (unless I'm desperate!) JoshHolloway 20:54, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

I use to just read the questions and answers. Then I began giving answers. No one likes my answers. I find fighting myself on the reference desk. I'm not a nice person. I try to be, but I am not. I probably wasn't cut out for answering peoples questions. Its my Achilles heel sometimes. Sometimes I answer right other times I'm off. Or forget to put some source and then I get people mad at me.Cardinal Raven (talk) 22:03, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Don't beat yourself up CR. I think most people here, lurkers or not, know to assume good faith. And I wouldn't say no-one likes your answers.Stanstaple (talk) 22:34, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm the one who is making Cardinal Raven feel bad. I feel badly about it, too, but newcomers to the Reference desk won't know that his answers are almost always incorrect or incomplete, except when they're entirely opinion, and I would hate for someone to leave with a wrong answer or with a bad impression of Wikipedia. I have assumed good faith in assuming that he wants to help but just doesn't understand how to look up answers or cite sources rather than assuming that he is giving deliberately incorrect answers in order to disrupt. I've tried to be polite in asking only for him to cite sources, which I hoped would encourage him to improve his accuracy in answering, but I don't think he gets the idea of reading the question, then looking up the answer, then answering with a link to the answer. While I regret making him feel sad, I'm afraid that I'm very close to asking the community if they'd be willing to block him if he can't find a way to look questions up before answering, rather than answering with half-remembered and incompletely-understood fragments of television programs. -FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 22:46, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

FisherQueen, you are not the one making him feel bad; I've followed some of the discussion and there are other people who have asked CR to chill. Part of being part of this community means keeping its purpose on target, and when some contributors hinder that purpose, it is up to bold members of the community to do something about it. Assuming good faith, I believe CR just needs to pay attention to the way other contributors add to the discussion and learn to contribute similarly. I haven't had to say anything because you and others have said it for all of us. Mitchell k dwyer (talk) 23:56, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

User:Bibliomaniac15 introduced me to the Ref desk about two months ago. I usually answer biology stuff here but lurk mostly on the other boards unless something interests me enough to answer.--Lenticel ^(talk) 23:47, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Good evening. I was silent user as well. Hid in the shadows I did. But then I decided to answer questions.(It's like a drug.) Once you answer questions it makes you feel good. Cause you know you are going to give the person information that they will be able to use and help them. That is always a wonderful feeling. I really hope my information helps people. I try my best and I want to make the reference desk a wonderful place. I hope I am fulfilling that and making the reference desk a nice place. Cause I like it here and I like sharing information. I like learning knew things myself. Everyone on the ref desk is a wonderful persons who spends their time looking into the answers for the people with questions. That is always wonderful to know. I also edit articles from time to time. Not so much because that is.....embarrassing a little. But I edit articles and I answer questions on the ref desk because I love Wikipedia. I want to share that love by helping and helping Wiki grow. I want to help Wiki to become a better place. Now I am even more embarrass cause I wrote a whole paragraph of me just blabbering on. Well I better stop blabbering or else. I hope I have answered your question. I hope I have given good information or words that you can understand. Have a positively wonderful day.Rem Nightfall (talk) 23:55, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

"You of all people should know Terry, in your hotel, there's always someone watching."  ;-) --hydnjo talk 00:06, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

I could only imagine that many people observe the desks but do not post. Through my personal experience, I see that I registered in August 2006, but made only 4 edits between August and December. If other people are like me, they likely have cycles of activity and passiveness. My edits tend to drop sharply (usually to zero) during April (term paper month) and May (finals month), except for April 2007, when I set my personal record for most edits in a month and neglected to hand in a critical paper worth 10% of my grade. Despite making no edits in May since 2006, I know that I never stopped reading the Desk, and I was also one of the Desk lurkers. Nothing wrong with that. Freedomlinux (talk) 03:51, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm not so silent as I used to be – came out of my shell through the friendly ones and observing how people handle conflict: Steve Ummit was kind, Bibliomaniac gave me a refdesk barnstar and here i still am. I have some sympathy for Cardinal Raven since I began to understand that you have a way of expressing yourself that is more poetic/subjective than some. It's not the worst fault to have. Everyone has to find their way, so it's nice to see you are surviving all that. *blink* blink* : ) Julia Rossi (talk) 09:56, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Yep, nothing wrong with lurking but if you see an incorrect answer or a question without a decent answer and you know the right answer then you really should put the right answer in. And Cardinal, it's probably your refusal to add references to the ... er ... eccentric answers you provide. Zain Ebrahim (talk) 10:04, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Hello everyone! I'm relatively new around these parts. I've been visiting the Reference Desk for the past one month. And since I'm still just a high school student, I'm just too afraid that I'll give someone wrong information to really answer people's questions. Of course, that doesn't stop me from asking a few of my own. Have a good day! ^_^ Aanusha Ghosh (talk) 12:06, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Im here 24 7 but rarely sign my posts193.115.175.247 (talk) 12:21, 17 June 2008 (UTC)Zionist

All the things I wanted to say were already said by other people...even in this case...--Faizaguo (talk) 16:57, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

I used to edit all hours of the day possible. I've been fairly inactive for quite a while though. Maybe now I'm a "silent desker." Mac Davis (talk) 17:46, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

I read the desks often but never, ever, post there. Aww, crap. Friday (talk) 20:30, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm a silent reader of the Mathematics desk. I think the last time I posted there was over a year ago. Secretly, it's always been my favourite desk. I also read the Science desk, but rarely post there. For some reason, I hardly ever read the Computer desk, though I when I do, I kinda like it. I regularly read and post at the other four desks. ---Sluzzelin talk 00:57, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

I still read the desks regularly and post occasionally, stirring up controversy in the process. --Bowlhover (talk) 19:12, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Calculating Restaurants Pars

Is there a formula to be had when calculating Restaurant pars for silverware ,glassware linen etc. Please email response to (removed email) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.183.15.60 (talk) 21:42, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Hi, I don't think anyone quite understands your question, can you rephrase it? Pars could be Persian or pairs or.... Mhicaoidh (talk) 05:12, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Is the question about par ordering and inventory making in restaurant management? PARS is a kind of costing template for calculating costs in a restaurant whether food, or other supplies – a technical term I can't decipher, except that one site explains it as " perimeter-area-ratio". *hand wagging way over head* Julia Rossi (talk) 10:21, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Progression doing bicep curls

I am 6'6", 180 lbs. From Jan. 1 - 31, I did 3 sets of 10 bicep curls for each arm (25 lbs on set 1, 30 on 2, and 25 on 3) daily. Then in February (1-15), I did the same, except 30 pounds for all sets.

Now, it's June, and I have barely worked out since. My workout now is 5 sets of 10 reps for hammer bicep curls, and the same for supinating bicep curls. I go right hammer, left hemmer, right supinating, left supinating, and repeat 4 more times. I use 25 lbs, and can do the entire workout.

My questions are: 1)how fast should I progress to higher weights? and 2) If I started this plan in mid-June, how much weight should I be doing by late August, assuming I continue? Thanks. 70.105.164.43 (talk) 22:47, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

(PS. I do other excersises, but I'm only concerned about that excersise in this question)

I'm seeing several different kinds of sources; it might help to know what your goals are- are you going for strength, health, or big bulging muscles? -FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 22:52, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Strength. 70.105.164.43 (talk) 23:05, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

You'd probably be best off asking a trainer at your local gym. The kind of exercises you should be doing will depend on a number of factors, and it's easy to injure yourself if you do them incorrectly. — QuantumEleven 09:06, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Toasty Me

Good evening. A few days ago I got sunburnt while swimming. It was red the day after and hurt really bad. Now it's made my skin is kind of dark because I am half Hispanic and half British(so white I am supposing)I get over sunburn quickly(the Hispanic part) and I just end up getting darker. Anyway my questions is this, why during the healing process of the sunburn does it itch? Normally if I got burn on a stove or something with an open flame when the burn would heal the burn would never itch. Is there something different about a sunburn then an open flame burn? Thank you for answering my question. I really appreciate it. Have a positively wonderful evening.Rem Nightfall (talk) 23:39, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

• First, the UVR causes vasodilation of the blood vessels in the skin. That's why you get red. Then, within an hour, mast cells release histamine (among other things), which make you itch. For much more detail, see the eMedicine article I'm reciting from. --jpgordon^∇∆∇∆ 00:11, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

• Also, if your skin peels, it may be itchy to encourage you to scratch off the old, dead skin. StuRat (talk) 00:52, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

• An aside here, not directly related to the question. If part of your ancestry is from the British Isles it doesn't automatically mean very pale skin. If your descent is Welsh or Irish there's a chance of slightly darker skin tones (considerably darker in parts of southern Ireland). Also, a follow-up question: if the itchiness is caused partially by the production off histamine by mast cells, would the itch be reduced by taking standard antihistamine hayfever medication? Grutness...wha? 01:13, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

• As an extra aside, my skin colour is of the Southern Irish variety. I've never burned...ever (and I lived in Laos for months). But my father (Northern Irish) burns in minutes. Fribbler (talk) 01:22, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Good evening. Thank you for all the answers I really appreciate it. I read the article very informative. On another note I never peel. I think I've peeled once in my life, but most of the time I don't peel. My skin just gets more tan. I put some Aloe Vera on it the second day that I had the sunburn. Another question why is a sunburn hot to the touch, but another kind of cut or bruise isn't hot to the touch? I read the article, but I still don't understand. Sorry. -.-Rem Nightfall (talk) 01:35, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

• It is because of vasodilation near that area. The increased blood flow in that area releases more heat.--Lenticel ^(talk) 03:40, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

June 17

What's the song in this video?

Moved to Entertainment Desk D0762 (talk) 14:20, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Gold and Water

Does gold form in water or where water once was? What is the connection between gold and water (streams) and why they always in the early days would find it in streams or around water?

It doesn't form in water, no. However, water erodes gold out of stone formations and, being fairly heavy, the gold typically doesn't go very far but stays a short distance from the source, headed downstream. So, if you find a lot of gold nuggets in a stream, you might want to look just upstream for the source. StuRat (talk) 03:45, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

From stories of prospectors and placer mining, and panning for gold, there seems some merit in what you say. See AuH₂O. Edison (talk) 03:52, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

So gold is typically in stone formations? Anythiong special about the stone formations that would make one stone create gold instead of another? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.126.131.225 (talk) 22:36, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Gold#Occurrence may assist. (Stones do not create gold. Gold is associated with certain ores). --Tagishsimon (talk) 22:47, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

The gold takes the form of veins running through rock. I believe this happens when undergound water seeps through cracks in the rock and deposits minerals along the way, including gold. So, since the gold was originally dissolved in water, there is another association between the two. Also note that ocean water contains a huge amount of gold, but there's no economic way to extract it. StuRat (talk) 02:29, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

"Wikipedia" as a FA

Can Wikipedia article be nominated as a featured article candidate? Or is there some rule which prohibits making articles about Wikimedia projects featured? 89.236.214.174 (talk) 11:12, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

If you go to Talk:Wikipedia, you will see that it is a former featured article. The reasons it was demoted didn't really have anything to do with the subject matter, just the quality of the article. -- Coneslayer (talk) 11:44, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Whoa! I'd love to see screenshot of Wikipedia main page when "Wikipedia" was featured article of the day (if it was, of course; not all FAs become "FA of today"). Like, "Today's featured article on Wikipedia is... Wikipedia" *chuckles* Thank you for response :) 89.236.214.174 (talk) 12:09, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

I know. Why don't me try and feature it again? Only joking.--Faizaguo (talk) 16:54, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Raul has said (if I recall correctly) that the Wikipedia article will never be a FA of the day as it's "navel gazing". Exxolon (talk) 19:36, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

That's a rip-off...:(...if anyone has screenshots please upload them. Thanks.:)--Faizaguo (talk) 18:36, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

what is this song??

Moved to Entertainment Desk D0762 (talk) 14:16, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

When it starts to be bullying

Where is the limit between normal peer pressure and bullying? Isn't peer pressure always present in a group? (since the group has to exist somehow). Are we so whiney about pressure/critism, that we consider any negative feedback bullying? 80.58.205.37 (talk) 12:07, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

My understanding is... peer pressure is doing something to fit in with your social-group, bullying is being forced to do something/give something to someone who is not (generally) a friend. The peer pressure is that you feel pressured to do something to 'fit in', whereas bully is usually someone basically trying to exert their power over you through intimidation - they aren't trying to convince you that the thing you are hesitant about is right (e.g. friends pushing you to try smoking may believe you'll enjoy it/it's a cool thing to do) they are just pushing/forcing you to do something to feel powerful/important. The difficultly is that bullying is a state of mind as much as a definable thing. If you feel you are being bullied (but the bully feels they are just being assertive/pushing you) then who is to decide which person is wrong? I don't believe society considers all negative feedback bullying, but as with these things it is as much tone and presentation as it is content. Constructive criticism is what people generally seek out - because that focusses on how we can improve from our position/where we can improve ny156uk (talk) 13:06, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Technically, they're non-overlapping. From Peer pressure:

"Peer pressure is a term describing the pressure exerted by a peer group in encouraging a person to change their attitude, behavior and/or morals, to conform..."

From Bullying:

"Bullying is the act of intentionally causing harm to others, through verbal harassment, physical assault, or other more subtle methods of coercion such as manipulation."

So if someone bullies you, they're not your peer. In this case, the "limit" is where your peer isn't your peer anymore. Zain Ebrahim (talk) 17:41, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Peer pressure is direct or indirect pressure to conform to certain standands of behavior, appearance, philosophy, etc., in order to fit in. It's usually spoken of in a bad light, and indeed it can be harmful (when it causes us to treat ourselves and others in ways that are unhealthy or make us feel ashamed or uncomfortable), but some degree of outside pressure is essential to our socialization as human beings. Bullying is usually direct action taken against a person for the purpose of displaying one's power over that person and lowering that person's self-esteem, and it's always harmful to the victim. Sometimes the two overlap, in the sense that people who don't fit in may be easier targets for bullying, and the insecurity they often feel about not belonging to any group may be used against them by bullies. However, the relationship is one of powerful aggressor to weak victim, not one of equals (peers). In short, peer pressure makes you want to fit in, and bullying just makes you feel bad. - Aletheia —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.104.139.75 (talk) 18:28, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Good day. As a high school student I have say that sometimes peer pressure can be bullying in itself. One time when I was in school I was ganged up by a whole group of boys. They tried to get me to put a firework in the boys toilet and flush it. I didn't, but the thing is that peer pressure and bullying can be two separate things. But sometimes they can be two same things. At least that is what I experience at my school. And my experience isn't really enough information, but I wanted to point that out. Peer pressure is good and at the same its bad. Bullying is bad, but at the same time it also is good. Bullying forced me to become a much stronger person and to change aspects of myself I didn't like. I hope I have helped. I am not sure it was that helpful, but I hope it was. Have a positively wonderful day.Rem Nightfall (talk) 18:48, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

@Rem Nightfall:No, you didn't help. Your writing is confusing and uninformative. I hope my bullying/peer pressure helps you.80.58.205.37 (talk) 11:50, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Sorry 80.58. I didn't mean to make that confusing. I was trying to say that another factor you have to consider is that peer pressure can be bullying. I hope that is a little better and I would like to apologize for my informal answer above.Rem Nightfall (talk) 01:29, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Medical term for animals who continue to grow throughout their lifetime

I was watching a TV show about fishing on the history channel. They briefly mentioned a medical term for animals who continue to grow throughout their lifetime - specifically fish fall into this category. As opposed to mammals such as humans who stop growing once they reach adulthood.

While there are certain items in species body's that may continue to grow, the overall body stops growing. For example mice and other rodents upper and lower incisors continue to grow through their life - this is not what I am looking for.

This condition of growth throughout an animals life results in huge size, for example fish over 400 lbs where normally they reach 100 lbs.

I searched through the history channel web site and have searched other sites for this topic to no avail. 132.79.7.16 (talk) 12:09, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Its called Indeterminate growth (although the article only talks about plants). Also see this D0762 (talk) 15:00, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Rebuilding of World Trade Center

Hard to tell from our article, but is Google Maps' view reasonably up to date? According to the image I saw, there's still not an awful lot to see above ground level. --Dweller (talk) 12:48, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

According to Google, "Google Maps uses the same satellite data as Google Earth. Google Earth acquires the best imagery available, most of which is approximately one to three years old." (I should probably add that to the Google Maps article, eh?) --LarryMac | Talk 16:10, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

I guess I'm asking if anyone on this page is familiar with New York... what does it look like right now? --Dweller (talk) 20:22, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

You might find Project Rebirth useful.Iiidonkeyiii (talk) 08:38, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

PGX

Does this product really help with weight loss? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.208.251.21 (talk) 17:14, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Aside from linking Polyglycoplex, the Refdesk can't give you much more unless someone finds a good review site. Zain Ebrahim (talk) 17:28, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

someone deleted an image of a mugshot done by a local police dept.

how can I protest this deletion based on:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Mugshot —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wikindeling (talk • contribs) 17:37, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

• If you disagree with a deletion you can ask for a review at WP:DRV. Exxolon (talk) 19:33, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Hunting Conterversy

Good day. I was thinking about this for a very long time. We hunt animals as a sport and for fun. So do other creatures. Sometimes predator will hunt for a sport or fun. Yet, when an animal does like cheetah we don't care. But when humans do it we do care. Why is this? Is this because we know that destruction we can cause. That when humans hunt something we will destroy a whole ecosystem. I am watching a documentary called The Making of Planet Earth and they said they were going to shoot a migration of creature that was in another BBC program in 1989, but from 1989 to 1990 the creatures had been wiped out due to hunting. Also I watched another documentary called 100 Years of Wildlife Filming and they showed men sticking ice picks into babies seal's heads. I am against hunting, but I just want to know why do we have a problem with humans hunting for sport, but not other animals, such as cheetah, who hunt for sport? Thank you for answering my question. I really appreciate it. Have a positively wonderful day.Rem Nightfall (talk) 18:32, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

What supports your contention that cheetahs or other animals hunt for sport? I understand that to be confined to humans. — Lomn 18:40, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

I don't know necessarily if other animals hunt for fun or sport. Because the information seems a little weird. I had watched a predator documentary and they said that a mountain lion wasn't hungry and was just chasing the rabbit for fun. But that seems weird. How do we know if the animal was hungry or not? We can't switch our stomachs to the cat stomach. So I really don't know if other animals hunt for fun or sport. Do other animals hunt for fun or sport?Rem Nightfall (talk) 18:53, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Do neither of you own cats?

House-cats often hunt for the 'fun' of it. A well fed house-cat typically will make no effort to eat the animals it's killed. Sometimes ignoring them as soon as they're dead or sometimes presenting them (as gifts?) to humans, etc. My old cat used to catch mice with its claws retracted, carry the uninjured mouse to the middle of a large room and then release it, only to catch it again right before it reached safety. (This would repeat until either the mouse was injured, or until the mouse finally won this game and escaped.) I have no cites for any of this, as it's all original research, but It seems reasonable to assume that house cats hunt mice for the same reason humans enjoy violent video games; an instinctive joy of killing. APL (talk) 19:32, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

To answer the original question: most people assume that, contrary to humans, animals do not have a lot of free will. A lion hunting a rabbit, whether for food or for fun, merely follows its instincts; a human who hunts makes a conscious decision to do so; and it is this decision that we may find morally acceptable or not. DAVID ŠENEK 19:46, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

I own a cat, but he never gives me presents. He likes to lay on may lap and sleep on me for hours at time. Which usually means I can't get off my chair for a while. He eats spiders. He eats them in front me. I just watch the spiders leg wiggle as he feeds the spider in his mouth one bite a time. Back on topic: To David Šenek: But you could say the same things about humans. We are just following our instinct to kill. Not naturally our instinct to survive, but to kill. Cause I'm sure we have that instinct. I'm against hunting because I watched that documentary 100 Years of Wildlife filming when they showed me baby seals, not adult, baby seals be hunted with ice picks. Ice picks in their little heads and they dragged the bodies across the snow. The snow was covered baby seal blood. I cried for the seals. I also watched a show on the Animal Planet about animal emotions. It showed a herd of elephants mourning a dead member of the pack. I am against hunting because after watching that documentary of animal emotions it awakened my eyes to the fact that animals do feel. I could just imagine that elephant as a human mother crying for her dead baby. Its sad. I would never be able to pick up a gun and hunt a creature for sport or for fun. It has nothing to do with the moral of a decision, for me at least. For me its emotional an response and I don't why either.Rem Nightfall (talk) 19:57, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

It was not my intention to deny that humans have instincts, but unlike animals we have the ability to exercise (some) control over those instincts, or act against them - even in very extreme ways, for example when people starve themselves or live a life of celibacy. The fact that you personally couldn't kill animals for fun may be a purely emotional response. But I do believe that the fact that, more generally, we judge people who kill animals for fun differently than we judge animals who do the same thing (the original question), is an issue of morality - and therefore of free will. DAVID ŠENEK 21:16, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

I wasn't trying to fight with you or try to have you infer that I was saying you deny that humans have instinct as well. I was trying to add the fact that humans have instincts. Some people don't realize that and do try to deny that. There are certain groups who try to deny, well more or less control humans instincts. As human beings we do have more control over our instincts and we have a responsibility to this world and the life that exist on this planet.Rem Nightfall (talk) 22:09, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

First, about cats. They certainly do the "catch and release and catch again" thing with mice and birds. It seems like torture, but may help to sharpen their hunting skills. They may not need those skills, if their food is provided by humans, but the instinct doesn't just turn off. We had a bird loose in the house once that the cat dragged in and released (that was fun !). I suppose it's similar with humans who hunt. They may never need that skill, but maybe if society collapses some day they will need it, who knows. Now, some arguments against hunting:

1) Unrestricted hunting, as noted, can wipe out entire species.

2) People tend to hunt for "the best" examples of each species. Killing those leaves the "not so good" individuals to reproduce and can thus weaken the species.

3) There are those who feel that causing pain and death in animals, when not necessary for survival, is wrong.

4) People get killed in hunting accidents.

5) In countries with gun control, allowing rifles for hunting increases the liklihood of homicide. StuRat (talk) 02:17, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

First *glares at cat* you never do anything except sleep and eat spiders...oh there was that one time you ate a mouse. Second, Can we call all five of you arguments the Big Five. Cause I'm sure that is the reason most people dislike hunting.Rem Nightfall (talk) 02:58, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

To be balanced, lets provide some good reasons for hunting.

1) Balanced and sensible hunting helps reduce overpopulation of certain species

2) Hunting is a form of controlling or removing pests, accidentally inroduced species, and those whose natural predators are somehow missing

3) Hunting is a way of providing food in a sustainable way, without the problems associated with farming

4) Hunting remains the most productive way of obtaining some forms of food (eg fishing)

5) Sensibly managed hunting is a natural and organic method of using the earth's resources. Meat is eaten, and hunted fur (eg possum: I don't mean tiger!) is natural, biodgradable, warm, sustainable, breathable (etc etc) and compares favourably with polar fleece and other artifical plastic based fabrics which are not biodegradable and have manufacturing issues (cost, pollution etc)

6) Successful hunting requires sensible, respectful and intelligent use of firearms and other weapons, which is a healthy attitude

7) Hunting is an energetic, outdoor activity which inspires the individual with a respect for food. Food should not be an easy-won commodity, scoffed in excess by lazy individuals.

Like most issues, there is no simple or correct answer. Gwinva (talk) 03:03, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

For point 2, can I just add that the natural predators may be 'somehow missing' because they were just more fun to hunt? (Or, in the interest of balance, because they posed a threat to human life) Oh, and hunting is only sustainable if you have a large area full of animals feeding a small human population. Once the human population grows, it is no longer sustainable. But the demand for hunting can lead to the preservation of wild areas and animal populations by providing a financial incentive to preserve them (as you can charge hunters), if handled well. 79.66.85.219 (talk) 12:51, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

I was thinking along the lines of the Easter Bunny Hunt (more) and possums wild pigs and so forth. (Take the pig link, as just one example: New Zealand's Department of Conservation, which states: "Pigs are present throughout the park, and are known to eat eggs and chicks of ground-dwelling birds as well as seedlings, berries and roots of a large variety of native plants. To control pig numbers in the park, managers have found that the most effective method is allow access to responsible hunters using well trained pig dogs.")

You're right: bad hunting practices have caused problems, like bad farming practices, or bad fishing, or deforestation for arable land and so forth. We don't close down Wikipedia because its vandalised; let's not write off hunting (or anything else) just because some people have been stupid in the past. Gwinva (talk) 23:35, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Gwinva for point number 1 and 2 I would like to state that the creatures in the environment that hunting is happening the creatures do that themselves. We don't live in their ecosystem they balance each other. They control how many predators and how much prey is in an ecosystem by hunting to control the population were are ruining an ecosystem by "helping" them. For your pig thing. Pigs have to eat too. That's all I have to say, pigs have to eat too.Rem Nightfall (talk) 01:42, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm sorry Rem, I have to disagree with you; humans are part of the ecosystem. Take the above pig example: pigs need to eat. True, but at the moment those pigs are eating endangered birds and endangered fauna. And those pigs have no predator but humans: nothing else is eating the pigs. That is not a system where the creatures "balance each other". The pigs were introduced, and there are no predators. Which was the point I was making in 1 and 2: A case can be made that sometimes Man is the creature in the ecosystem who needs to provide balance.

I have no wish to debate, so I will leave it there. But for the record, I have never hunted, so don't think I have an axe to grind. I just have a dislike for unbalanced arguements, and wished to show why some people think hunting is a good or legitimate thing. (Which I think was your original question?) Gwinva (talk) 02:43, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Trivia!

Does anyone know any good general trivia sites online? Was going to "Trivia Cafe" but the questions are kind of weak; hoping someone knew of a better site to kill time with Trivia at? Thanks in advance! 38.112.225.84 (talk) 18:58, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Do you mean a repository of trivia, or a site with quizzes on trivia? Fribbler (talk) 23:22, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Umm, repository? "Quizzes on trivia" - that sounds a little too Meta for me....I'm just trying to get some good questions to ask co-workers during downtime :) 38.112.225.84 (talk) 16:17, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Here is a short list of trivia sites JessicaN10248 19:25, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Holocaust

What did the germans have to say for themselves after the war. were they ashamed of what they had done? how do they feel about it now? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.18.33.2 (talk) 19:05, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

• The articles linked to from Holocaust#Aftermath_and_historiography would be a good place to start. Exxolon (talk) 19:31, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

(ec)In answer to the first part of your question, according to the Denazification article:

Despite [Allied] campaigns support for Nazism and genocide among German population continued to exist in certain degree [after the war].

• A majority in the years 1945-49 believed National Socialism to have been a good idea, badly applied.
• In 1946 60% of Germans said the Nuremberg trials had been unfair.
• In 1946 37% in the U.S. occupation zone said about the Holocaust that "the extermination of the Jews and Poles and other non-Aryans was necessary for the security of Germans".
• In 1946 1 in 3 in the U.S. occupation zone said that Jews should not have the same rights as those belonging to the Aryan race
• In 1950 1 in 3 said the Nuremberg trials had been unfair.
• In 1952 37% said Germany was better off without the Jews.
• In 1952 25% had a good opinion of Hitler. Stanstaple (talk) 19:38, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

In present-day Germany racism and other Nazi-like ideas are an "elephant in the room" situation. Not many Germans will defend Nazi ideas, but many believe they are fair. 80.58.205.37 (talk) 11:54, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Please give us some referenced data for claims of this kind. I am not German, but read and watch a lot of German media, have lived in Germany, and am in private and professional contact with Germans on daily basis. I disagree with unqualified statements such as "many believe they [Nazi ideas] are fair". ---Sluzzelin talk 14:59, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Where I agree is that the Nazi-past has indeed been an elephantine burden in political discourse during the decades of Germany's Vergangenheitsbewältigung, and that pointing out Germany's own suffering or accusing others of committing atrocities were seen as tu quoque attempts to deflect from Nazi Germany's own crimes and deemed "politically incorrect" (though that term didn't exist at the time). See also an earlier question here. ---Sluzzelin talk 15:28, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

In my opinion, Germans have still not distanciated themselves from this racial ideology. And even nowadays, being German is consider by most to be born from German parents. Of course, they will not use the word "German blood" since it would be brought in relation with the Nazi past, but if you are from another race and were born and grew up in Germany, possibly you are not considered German. Sources: here "Der Spiegel, a serious German weekly magazine, about racism in Germany. here a comparison between US and Germany by the FU Berlin, one of the main German institutions.

80.58.205.37 (talk) 11:55, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Well since I was asked, I will respond, though only briefly, because I don't wish to turn this into a debate:

No one denies that racial prejudice, overt racism, racist violence, and hate crime exist in Germany, just like they exist in other European countries. I still disagree with the conclusion that this is unique to Germany, has anything to do with "many Germans believing that Nazi-ideas were fair" or "Germans" not distancing themselves from racist Nazi-ideology, or that either of these statements holds any meaningful truth. ---Sluzzelin talk 15:28, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

I didn't say that it is unique to Germany. The problem is just some nations define themselves independent of blood or race other don't. An example of the last case is Germany. That also explains why Britons granted citizenship to citizens originally from India or Pakistan, and why there exist several generations of Turks living in Germany and not acquiring citizenship. 80.58.205.37 (talk) 16:47, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Do tanks have ignition keys?

According to the Shawn Nelson article, he broke into three different tanks because the first two would not start. Do tanks require a key to start the engine? Did they just leave the keys in the ignition? -- MacAddct  1984 ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:14, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

The article states "Armory officials said that only a few people are given keys to the vehicles", so I guess that's yes to the first question and, probably, no to the second. --Tagishsimon (talk) 20:17, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Ah, I should have been less lazy and read the whole article. Maybe that explains why he couldn't start the first two tanks, because he was only able to get a key to the third? A "huge lapse in security" seems to describe the situation well. -- MacAddct  1984 ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:37, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

I don't know about tanks, but the M109 howitzer does not have an ignition key. However, the doors to the vehicle (including the sliding one to the driver's chamber) are typically locked with simple padlocks when not supervised - the mentioned keys could be referring to those. -- Meni Rosenfeld (talk) 20:41, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

I spent ten years in the Army and no military pattern vehicle I encountered, including jeeps, tanks, and armoured personnel carriers, had ignition keys. They all had push button starters. This kind of makes sense - there's is little more embarassing than missing the big attack (or perhaps a more retrograde motion) because you can't find the keys to the car.

To prevent theft, vehicles were padlocked as appropriate (i.e., drivers hatch on a tank, steering wheel on a jeep, etc.)

Given the amount of maintenance a lot of these vehicles require, it wouldn't surprise me if the two tanks that didn't start... just didn't start. - Eron^Talk 21:11, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

I guess it depends on the army. The AIL Storm does have an ignition key. -- Meni Rosenfeld (talk) 21:33, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Oh, and it could also be that he was so nervous he messed up the ignition sequence. I know of an officer who forgot how to operate his own firearm when it counted. -- Meni Rosenfeld (talk) 21:38, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

We certainly had some vehicles that had ignition keys, but they were all civilian pattern models - mostly light trucks - that had been bought en masse and painted green. (For a while, my command post was a Chevy 5/4 ton with a box on the back.) It looks like the Storm - described as being based on the Jeep Wrangler - is one of those type. I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that this one doesn't have a key. - Eron^Talk 22:24, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

I guess it's mostly a matter of semantics with regard to the Storm and similar vehicles. As for the Merkava - I couldn't say. I've only been inside one once, it was dark and I had other things on my mind :) . But you're probably right. -- Meni Rosenfeld (talk) 23:04, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Not Allowing Newscasters,Etc. to Wear U.S. flag Pens

Please let we, the public, know who came up with this "idiotic" idea of not allowing your on-air peole to wear a United States Flag pen. You have just lost alot of loyal watchers because of that. It matters not what your political leaning, this is, IN FACT, the United States of America and if you don't like it and can't respect it, leave and go to the country where you can be happy and repect, but you have not right taking away symbols of Our Country.

You should be absolutely ashamed, and, as I said, I know of at least 20 people who will no longer watch your ABC stations, and as we continue to pass this information around, those numbers will certainly grow. I hope it's worth it to you to insult this great country at all costs.

Sincerely,

Pat S. Pensa Atlanta, Ga. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.105.123.249 (talk) 21:21, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

You seem confused. This is Wikipedia, not ABC news. There is no relationship between the two. I also suspect that they were wearing "pins", not "pens", unless you count them having a pen stuck behind their ears. StuRat (talk) 21:31, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Why is a flag pin such a big deal in the US? In fact, why is the whole country so overtly patriotic? It's kind of silly... just blinds people to the idea that other countries might be doing something better and that lessons could be learnt from said countries. I wouldn't say I knew anyone here in Britain who wasn't patriotic, but flags only come out when England play at football and stuff like that. -mattbuck (Talk) 21:43, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Jingoism, and the fact that the Republican Party discovered that flag pins are another stick with which they can beat Democrats. Foolish people are readily moved by such foolish issues.

Atlant (talk) 22:51, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

They're made into a big deal by the third in the three groups of people in this drama:

1. the sincere patriots who see the flag as a symbol of all that is good and just about the country and its people
2. the equally sincere patriots who see the flag as a symbol of the country's government -- and in particular its military -- which do not always conform to the highest principles of the country and its people
3. the partisan hacks who gain political advantage by persuading group #1 that group #2's unease about the flag is due to their opposition to all that is good and just about the country and its people.

The flag burning debate centers on the same deliberate misunderstanding. --Sean 14:43, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Additionally, I can't tell if this has any present grounding in fact. The June 2008 complaints on the net that I encountered match, word for word, the October 2001 phrasing found at Snopes.— Lomn 21:46, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

You're not really a patriot unless you tattoo a flag on your forehead. The guys who just put on a flag pin are wusses—they don't care enough about this country to wear their pride on their skin. You're not a patriot if you can hang your honor in the closet. Oh, and don't forget to ask all your coworkers if they're loyal Americans. Any that refuse, or who won't get a tattoo, can be reported to the appropriate government agency. Bonus points if you annex a part of Canada, too. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 21:54, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Bush: "Canada, isn't that one of our Northern states ?"

Aide: "No, sir. We aren't scheduled to invade and annex Canada until 2010."

Bush: "Tell you what, these Canadians are so nice, let's let them keep their country ... until 2012 at least." - Chilly Beach - StuRat (talk) 22:26, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

I think there's two sides to everything. Americans may be "too patriotic," but Brits seem to be sadly unpatriotic nowadays. British friends tell me that the only people who fly Union Jacks nowadays are "racists and old people," and that anyone who flies a flag is seen as out of touch. That's quite sad, I think. Why shouldn't you be proud of a country that has so much to be proud of? Too much colonial guilt or something? You can't get satisfy all of your patriotism quotient just through GWB-bashing. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 23:41, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Don't forget Rangers' fans. Mind you they demonstrate their pride in somewhat mysterious ways. Rockpocket 00:53, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

There are certainly two sides of everything. I've never understood why private citizens in this country seem so intent on displaying the emblem of the federal government. My house is not a post office or a tax collection center, why would I put the government's flag out front?
It's a bizarre state of affairs where people are assumed not to love their country if they're not constantly advertising their commitment to the government. APL (talk) 13:11, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Of course, this sentiment doesn't apply on independence day, or flag day or something. APL (talk) 13:13, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

But..... Why would you presume that people don't love their country just because they don't fly the Union Flag? Why do you need to fly the flag to show your love for your country? Isn't that the whole problem with the lapel silliness that people have been discussing above? I think a lot of British people are very proud of their country, they just don't see the need to fly the flag all the time to show it. Many may even think it's silly... Surely it's their right to choose to love their country and show off their pride in different ways? Personally, I think British people show of their pride in ther country in far better ways. (You could say a Brit doesn't need flashy symbols to show Britain is great, it just comes naturally...) Another case in point, many Malaysians are very patriotic, often (IMHO anyway) unhealthily so. Many are also proud of their flag. However despite the governments attempts to instill the sort of flag waving culture you see in the US, it hasn't really been embraced that well. But as I've already said, it's dumb to say that's because of a lack of patriotism, it mostly isn't. Or here in NZ, a significant percentage of the population doesn't even like the current flag. Other then in sports events (where a flag waving culture is fairly universal for all countries I think) you don't see it that much. But Kiwis are definitely proud of NZ. Nil Einne (talk) 16:30, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Good evening. Even though being overly patriotic isn't necessarily a bad thing it can get a little over the top. Have a positively wonderful day. I hope you find ABC soon so that you can persuade them.Rem Nightfall (talk) 22:05, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

I don't think they should be allowed to wear flags, it's jingoistic ,hotclaws 03:35, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

What if the reporter isn't a US citizen? Would they have to wear the flag pen/pin? Whom else should we require to wear symbols of patriotism? Teachers? Garbage collectors (though our garbage trucks do have flags painted on the sides)? Dog walkers? I know, let's pass a Constitutional amendment requiring a flag pin be worn at all times. If you're naked, pin it to your skin. Corvus cornix_talk 15:43, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

See flag waving contest or dick waving contest. What?! No article on either? How unpatriotic. ;-) --Prestidigitator (talk) 18:23, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

I agree with Nil Einne. There are many ways to show patriotism; flying or displaying your country's flag is one of them. Those who don't do so shouldn't be tagged as unpatriotic, and those who do do so shouldn't be mocked as old-fashioned or anything else. I've never been one for having the Australian flag on display, but on Australia Day, almost as a joke, I stuck one on my front fence. The next day, I thought "why take it down? I'm not proud of my country for only one day a year" - so I kept it there. After 5 months it's become a little faded and ragged, and I'll have to either replace it or remove it soon. But after a lifetime of not being overtly patriotic, I'm now quite comfortable with flying the flag. And I don't even like the current design; I'd vote for a change if a suitable alternative was ever on offer. But it's not about whatever the current design is, it's what it stands for that's important. -- JackofOz (talk) 04:46, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

The comparison of the US Stars and Stripes and the UK Union Jack is problematic at best. The two flags have very different histories and meanings. They came about through quite different processes. One of born from revolution and the other, unless I'm mistaken, a joining together. The two flags strike me as nearly opposite in symbolic meaning, at least in their origins. Like many symbols of revolution through history, the US flag has taken on mythic, nearly sacred qualities. A better comparison might be something like the flag of China. Is China a "flag waving country"? The recurring US concern regarding flags and flag imagery (as in pins) has always struck me as a throwback to the first decades of the country's independence, when it really was a revolutionary "experiment", and the flag was a way to proclaim "we're not British!" I suspect a similar logic explains the relatively frequent use of flags in Canada -- "we're not the US!" To return to the OP, comments like this is, IN FACT, the United States of America and if you don't like it and can't respect it, leave and go to the country where you can be happy and repect always make me cringe. Respect, sure, but "like it or leave it"? No thanks, I'll stay here and continue to point out the good things and condemn the bad. Pfly (talk) 08:18, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

That and the fact that "like it" is NOT synonymous with "shove it down everyone's throats with a 40-ton hydraulic press". Do these people honestly think that anyone cares what they believe? --NellieBly (talk) 21:28, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

I think there's a cultural difference in how flags are used in the US. Say the US bombs the hell out of some country for little or no reason, the next day all the rednecks will have their houses and cars completely covered with American flags. This is their way to say "Yea ! Kill all them damn for'ners, and nuke France while your at it !" (they may also have a bumper sticker that says this verbatim). That makes everyone else not want to display any American flags, as it would imply that they agree with the rednecks. StuRat (talk) 14:37, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

British attitude towards competition ?

I've been watching All Creatures Great and Small, and found their attitude towards competition to be puzzling. One vet seemed to feel the need to get permission from another before even seeing a regular customer of the second vet. To fail to do so was seen as immoral and "poaching customers". In the US, I'd expect vets to try to take each other's customers, as competition is good for the customers in the long run, leading to better service and lower prices. Does this attitude towards competition remain the same today in England as in the movie, or has it since become more acceptable to compete with other businesses ? StuRat (talk) 22:35, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Times have, in fact, changed. --Tagishsimon (talk) 22:54, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

I think the situation you're referring to is a Gentlemen's agreement. In my home town there was an arrangement between two cinemas that each would take films from two each of the four major film distirbutors at the time so they were never showing the same films. I imagine this was to avoid a pointless competition for customers who all wanted to see the same film. Exxolon (talk) 23:37, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

There remain many situations where it is seen as underhand to take another's clients without some acknowledgement. Sometimes it is merely that (ie. notification rather than actual request for permission). This is more prevalent in small towns or small fields (eg where the number of people doing particular work is small) where smooth running of businesses and lives is dependant on co-operation, or good working relationships. As Exxolon said, these are gentlemen's, or unwritten agrreements; one is not obliged to stick to these unwritten rules, but if, for example, you poached someone else's regular clients then word would get around, you'd be black-marked, and you would find people less willing to work with you, or pass on other clients/contacts. These areas can be varied, and many have actual processes in place, such as medicine where specialists won't see someone off the street, but require a referral, or corporate taxi drivers, who have their own list of clients and won't book in another driver's regular customer without agreement. Situations like this exist in other countries too, such as NZ. That said, some areas of business/trade are competitive, and others quite cut throat. Like most things, there are unwritten but widely held rules; some people work right on the edge of teh acceptable (and the rules are constantly being pushed, and move over time) but overstep the mark too much and you'll be left in the cold. Gwinva (talk) 00:23, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

(ec) This was a small, relatively (for the UK) remote community. If one vet's office were overextended or if the veterinarians were ill or away for some reason it would be expected that the other office in town would cover for them. It was necessary to keep on good terms with them, and poaching clients would hardly promote that! Also, in a time before computers, medical professionals couldn't easily find out the medical history of new patients. You couldn't trust the pet owner to know or remember everything, and more importantly you had to be sure that the owner was really asking for help with a pet and not just trying to get drugs. (Yes, drugs were a problem back then too.) Lastly, remember that All Creatures Great and Small is a fictionalized (and somewhat rose-coloured) look back at small-town life before and after World War II, and Alf Wight, the real James Herriot, was such a traditionalist that when the married actor playing him in the first series was found to be having an affair with his unmarried female co-star, he had the woman fired but stayed friends with the man. --NellieBly (talk) 00:26, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

NellieBly makes some good points specific to All Creatures. But it's worth remembering that while it's a fictional representation, James Herriot/Alf Wight was a fine observer/drawer of character, and his portrayals of the types of people he found in Yorkshire are superb. You can still find them today! Of course, he wrote about the interesting characters, not the ordinary, average, ones. On a side note, are you watching the film or the TV serial? Gwinva (talk) 00:42, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm watching the TV serial. StuRat (talk) 01:34, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

It's worth noting that the cinema example above is a case where non-competition benefits the consumer. Without the agreement the two cinemas would both choose to show the movie they thought was going to be the most popular, and cinemagoers would be left with no choice. With this agreement both cinemas get to stay in business and viewers get more choice. DJ Clayworth (talk) 15:30, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

However, since you have no choice of theatres for the movie you have in mind, they can charge a higher rate and get away with it, due to a lack of competition. StuRat (talk) 16:18, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

I don't know, from my experience cinema prices are fairly fixed. One of the problems is that there is a natural monopoly there since copyright grants a monopoly to the copyright holders and they have a big say in the ticket price, obviously Nil Einne (talk) 16:39, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

June 18

Urgent London coffee query

I am hoping someone here is a knowledgeable Londoner. I am thinking of driving from London to Stonehenge to see the stone circle up close and without the crowds with a special 8:00 a.m. permit. This will necessitate leaving London at 6:15 a.m. However, I will not be able to drive anywhere at that hour without drinking coffee first, so before I commit to this plan, I need to know: Am I likely to find a place that sells coffee in or near Paddington Station between 5:30 and 6:00 a.m. on a weekday morning? A secondary and related question: Do UK motorways have service areas with (ahem) toilets? (As an American, I want to say "restrooms" but fear that I won't be understood.) Thank you. Marco polo (talk) 01:51, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Can't answer the first, but for the 2nd, yeah, all UK motorways have services, with full facilities, including free restrooms. All signposted, and marked on maps. You'll be on the M3 Motorway for some of the journey, which has the Fleet services. If you take the M4 motorway out of London, you'll pass the Heston services as well. WHAAOE! Gwinva (talk) 02:11, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

AA route planner] for your trip shows services on the A303 as well. Enjoy Stonehenge and all the other places we've told you to go. We expect all articles to be updated with new photos! And do report back! Gwinva (talk) 02:20, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Wow... That's all I can think to say... There are many individual articles for rest stops... Wow... Now I have to go to England before I die so that I might experience what it is that makes a rest area notable. Dismas|^(talk) 03:05, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

What makes them notable? That's easy. The fuel and the food prices (the rate of which is inversely proportional to quality). Fill up self and car elsewhere before setting off. Gwinva (talk) 03:33, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

The problem with that is that drivers and passengers need somewhere to stop and rest in the middle of a long car journey, and motorway service stations are pretty much the only option. Some of them aren't too bad, especially the Moto ones. The trick is to look for the ones that have decent food concessions such as Marks & Spencer, which have good food at reasonable prices. --Richardrj ^{talk email} 07:44, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Although, having just read the Heston Services article, I find that there are those who appreciate the finer qualities of these service areas: "Celebrated chef Heston Blumenthal received his unusual forename because of his parents' love of Heston services." Well, after that recommendation by Mr & Mrs Blumenthal, Marcopolo, you MUST stop there. In fact, why bother going all the way to Stonehenge, with such a place on your doorstep? Gwinva (talk) 03:39, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Marco polo: feeling a little guilty for hijacking your coffee question so it looks answered, but not actually answering it, I now offer this Paddington Guide, which shows a few places which open early. Gwinva (talk) 04:13, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

For coffee, just go inside the station itself. There will be loads of places open even at that time in the morning, catering for the early morning commuters. --Richardrj ^{talk email} 07:44, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

As a relative local to the Stonehenge site I would advise 1. Use the M3 then A303 and you can't miss it. 2. Stonehenge was last year in the top 5 most disappointing sites to visit. Richard Avery (talk) 07:10, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Actually, I have already seen Stonehenge, and it was disappointing. However, my partner has never set foot in Great Britain, and for him Stonehenge is one of the "must see" attractions. So we have to go. I haven't had the heart to tell him that it is disappointing, and maybe for him it won't be. I was hoping that seeing it up close, with access to the actual stones, and before the crowds arrive, would be less disappointing, but I've now concluded that the ordeal of waking up at 5:00 and looking for coffee, then driving across London, and the expense of roughly £70 for car rental and fuel outweighs the potential thrill of seeing the stones up close and without a crowd. So we will see it later, along with the busloads of tourists, from behind the railing. Fortunately, my partner has a zoom lens. Thanks for your helpful comments. I guess I will have to consider adding the Heston Services on the M4 to our list of "must see" destinations! Marco polo (talk) 12:34, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

A great antidote to the disappointment of Stonehenge is to visit Avebury, which is just down the road, a lot less famous but more impressive. You can touch the stones, walk round the rings, etc. This really gives you a much better feel of the scale. On a summer evening there is real atmosphere there. -- Q Chris (talk) 12:46, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

There's a lot of good stone circles in the UK: List of stone circles has some (but not comprehensive). The ones off the beaten track can be very atmospheric, and as Q Chris says, you can touch them, sit on them, shelter beside them to eat your picnic etc. They make great shields for snowball fights, also (not that there'll be much snow, just at the moment). Best of all, most are free, and you'll be quite alone. Some require a walk (short strolls to energetic walks). Try Enhlish Heritage prehistoric sites and Historic Scotland. You're bound to find something close to where you're going. Gwinva (talk) 21:52, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

dock your pay

Just wanted to know the origin of this phrase. Is this a nautical term and how was it first used? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.21.238.180 (talk) 02:11, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

"Dock", in this sense, means to cut, and derives from a word relating to an animal's tail. Tails are often cut, or docked. This sense of cutting (or curtailing!) was transferred to other things, like pay: essentially, it means "cut your pay". Gwinva (talk) 02:31, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Not quite. It is used in the sense of a short term deduction, perhaps to pay for some damage. It does not refer to a long-term pay cut.86.211.108.138 (talk) 14:25, 18 June 2008 (UTC)DT

Influences of Visual Arts/art in 21st century Architecture (modern houses, landmarks etc.)

Has visual arts/art had a postive influence to 21st Century Architecture (modern houses, landmarks etc.)? Has Visual Arts/art had much of an influence on architecture (modern houses, landmarks etc.) within the 21st Century as it has in previous centuries?

I just want to know some facts or maybe an answer for these questions. If someone could tell me some good sites or articles for these questions that'd be great. Thanks

Happysnaps (talk) 13:41, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Let's look at some. Firstly "positive" influence of art -- that's subjective so maybe we could make it "actual" -- has art influenced or been reflected in architecture (say, as it did at the turn of last century eg. the Vienna Secession, Gustav Klimt, decoration, art nouveau and design)? Looking at those elements for the 21st c, you could say it has. But I'd rather say, art and architecture reflect the thinking of the times and express it physically. As arts together they reflect and respond to current ideas. The impact of postmodernism is still around so that we can talk about art being analytical, aware of its own history and more flexible, so is architecture. Arts now include not just painting, architecture and sculpture, but design, craft, the computer. Image art permeates the internet and the internet invades architectural space and affects how we use that space, as well as how it is designed. A further inflluence is changing technologies so that something like CAD allows for more freedom in designing architecture.

Have you seen our articles on Deconstruction with links to Vorticism and Constructivism and then there's analytical cubism? Art used ideas from deconstruction and post-modernism to discuss place and space and decentralisation. Theories questioned the dominance of the museum (using installation works), and art went outside to public gardens or onsite in historical buildings -- engaging the buildings, then transcending them by taking the reproducible image via photography to the internet. Architecture also analyses itself so that architects of the domestic would be thinking about avoiding the dominance of the front

door, about not facing the street, and be more sympathetic to place (the site, the sun and green power); in public spaces, of being more transparent (lots of glass), of being green (especially in landscape architecture: conserving water by using wild grasses etc). I'm not sure if the big bucks are available to architects in the present world climate as they were for say Frank Gehry's Guggenheim in Bilbao, so architecture may be less about monumental display, impressing the public as it is about accommodating the public: personal scale, sympathy to the environment, flexibility of materials. I guess there are parallels, but in painting there's been a trend towards realism and existentialism over the past few years. There's a nice site here[3] for an overview of 20th century art movements to give you some background. Julia Rossi (talk) 08:06, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Architecture is itself a visual art form. Marco polo (talk) 12:25, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Now that you've changed the title, Happysnaps, are you asking a different question? It's better to join the discussion by expanding your question in text than changing the title and making nonsense of people's answers. I could give you examples but they were not 21st c buildings as you first specified. However, Minimalism is still big.Julia Rossi (talk) 03:59, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Where exactly is discussion? Happysnaps (talk) 12:02, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

On an internet forum maybe? (which is not here). We've provided you with facts, answers, links, even themes, now it's over to you to make the connections... Julia Rossi (talk) 12:33, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

Crab boat "Ocean Spray"

In the early 1980's there was a crab boat out of Dutch Harbor, AK named the Ocean Spray. I am trying to find out if it is still in operation and if possible get a photo of this boat.208.98.128.54 (talk) 06:11, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

If AK = Alaska, there's this photography site[4] with two pics of Ocean Spray, commercial fishing vessel (scroll down, four row far right and second last row centre - use find command). You could get in touch with the photographer. Julia Rossi (talk) 09:05, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Plastic bag ban

Apparently South Australia will ban supermarket lightweight plastic bags by the end of the year and Australia is following (eventually). What are the green alternatives for disposing of household rubbish, then? Julia Rossi (talk) 12:44, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Paper bags are better, in my opinion, since they are biodegradable. They can also be reused more easily as trash bags since they, unlike plastic bags, can stand upright on their own and hold more volume. The bags should be brown, not dyed or bleached. As long as whoever cuts down the trees uses proper forest management techniques (regrowing trees at a rate that replaces those they cut down), the trees shouldn't suffer. Better yet, the bags can be made from recycled paper.

An even better choice (for shopping) is reusable canvas bags. StuRat (talk) 12:54, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

I don't think a reusable canvas bag is a good solution for Julia's question regarding disposal of household rubbish. Even with supermarket bags being banned, perhaps the stores will still sell bin liners? In any event, composting and recycling can drastically reduce the amount of rubbish produced. For the question below, our Biodegradable plastic article states "degradation of biodegradable plastic occurs very slowly, if at all, in a sealed landfill." There are also other concerns mentioned. --LarryMac | Talk 14:32, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm trying to look at the whole life cycle from production, to getting the bag at the store, to reusing it for garbage. The canvas bag would only be used for garbage once it was worn out. StuRat (talk) 16:10, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Aren't there such things as biodegradable plastic bags now? --Richardrj ^{talk email} 12:56, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Reusing a trash bag could be awkward. And perhaps unsanitary, unless there was a cleaning step involved. (Which would sink energy and water, of course.) APL (talk) 13:18, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

The reuse is from when you get it while shopping to using it to collect trash. You can also resuse a paper bag for trash again if it only contained dry items. StuRat (talk) 16:10, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

France moved away from throw-away plastic bags a year or so ago. Instead we can buy large and long-term use bags for a few cents. These can be exchanged, free, when necessary. The store then disposes of them. Unfortunately one forgets to take them in and so I now have about a dozen in my car ! But the scheme is good, and popular.86.211.108.138 (talk) 14:23, 18 June 2008 (UTC)DT

Plastic bags/canvas bags/paper bags it is difficult to say which is better without access to recycling-rates. The institute for lifecyle asssesment (think that's their name) look at the whole product lifecycle from cradle-to-grave (as it were). I'll try add the link later but can't find it right now. 194.221.133.226 (talk) 14:53, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

I think some people haven't properly read the question, or perhaps are ignoring it. The OP is interested in what to use for disposing of rubbish, I presume primary bin liners and similar. I don't think many people will be interested in canvas bags or large long-term use bags for this purpose. I suspect LarryMac is right, bin-liners will still be available. (I already use bin-liners for my kitchen rubbish since the bin is too large for most plastic bags). As will large rubbish bags. The large rubbish bags may not be so important anyway, I'm not sure what things in Australia are like but at least here in NZ in Auckland, most councils use prepaid large rubbish bags which are definitely not going to disappear. Some others (and some independent contractors) use wheelie bins. Either way, the primary issue is bin-liners. N.B. These are of course not green but the general concern is people have too many and don't dispose of them properly meaning more waste then is necessary and plastic bags clogging up drains etc.Nil Einne (talk) 16:08, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

FWIW, we have cats and a cat litter tray. We get through several plastic bags a day clearing it up. No way am I using over 1000 canvas bags a year for this. Paper would be possible if there were a convenient source of bags. -- SGBailey (talk)

The best solution is to rinse and dry plastic and glass recyclables and then put them in a recycling bin, to recycle paper waste, and to put organic waste in a compost container that you empty regularly into a larger compost bin and then rinse. (It helps to have a vegetarian diet, since meat scraps and other animal proteins don't compost so well, but having a dog or cat would solve that problem). Once you've separated out the organic wastes, your remaining trash should be fairly dry, or you can dry it out before disposing of it. Then you can dispose of your dry trash in paper bags without a danger of breeding microbes in your trash bin. As for cat litter, the greenest solution might be a pair of washable textile work gloves, which you could use to clean/change the litter. You could probably reuse these and/or have several of them that could accumulate before you wash them. The cat droppings presumably can go in the toilet. No need for plastic bags. Marco polo (talk) 17:28, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

This pair have a few tips [5] Mhicaoidh (talk) 22:01, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

It looks like there are some limits to recycling in a hands-on way for people who don't have a space resources. I guess I will go with finding a good source of strong paper bags or wrapping in newspaper. I used to think that plastic bags were being recycled after shopping with them when you used them for rubbish, imagining them buried for good in a dump somewhere. But when a local creek flooded a couple of times recently, I saw them hanging from the trees like a weird harvest. I guess someone will have to legislate against selling them as bin liners too. Julia Rossi (talk) 00:56, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Although you won't be able to get shopping bags with your shopping, you should still be able to buy plastic household garbage bags (including biodegradable ones) at your supermarket. I've seen them in both Woolies and Coles. Steewi (talk) 01:00, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Do the biodegradable plastic bags really break down? Awhile ago people nailed them to the shed roof, buried them and so on, but found they didn't dissolve. Wondering if there's been developments on that since. Julia Rossi (talk) 05:22, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

I'd have thought you'll still be able to buy bin liners, as in plastic bags specifically made for the purpose of lining bins. Among other things, they tend to be thinner (meaning less plastic is used) than shopping bags. Noöne's going to legislate against them until an acceptable alternative is found. 79.66.85.219 (talk) 12:29, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

That and the fact that many communities (including mine) refuse to pick up trash unless it is bagged in large green or orange garbage bags tied securely at the top. No other method of disposal (and certainly not cardboard!!) is acceptable. (The bags can be placed inside trash cans, but if the trash inside the can isn't bagged they don't empty it.) --NellieBly (talk) 21:38, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

T shirts

Are there any websites you guys know of that sell shirts with weapons or Tank's on them? RoyalOrleans 14:03, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

I found one at http://www.forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtopic.php?t=54141 -- SGBailey (talk) 16:54, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Not what i was exactly looking for but thanks. Im suprised there arn't many websites that sell shirts like that. RoyalOrleans 18:08, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

You can always buy transfer paper. I've done t-shirts that way, and it works quite nicely. Just print onto the paper, and iron onto the top. Angus Lepper^{(T, C, D)} 22:34, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Increasing Credit Score

What is the absolutely the best way to increase your credit score if you have very poor credit? --Anthonygiroux (talk) 14:43, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Credit history#How credit rating is determined has some relevant information but I'm not sure there is an "absolute best way". Zain Ebrahim (talk) 15:01, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Assuming that you can afford it, I have heard financial advisers recommend taking out a small loan (unnecessarily) the immediately setting aside all the money required to pay it of, plus its interest. A common load size is $500 to $1000 US, then pay each payment on time, but do not pay it all at once. The objective of this is to show your creditor that you are: responsible, able to make payments on time, and can control your debt. After you have completed paying off the loan, consider waiting several months and taking out a larger loan, again setting aside money so you may pay it on schedule.

Watch to see if you think the (probable) increase in credit score is worth the expense, and repeat if you find it necessary. Please note that this process WILL take many years to complete. If this seems like it may work, please discuss this with your financial adviser before taking drastic action. Freedomlinux (talk) 15:47, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

You may also want to read Credit Score or Credit score (United States). Freedomlinux (talk) 15:50, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

(EC) I've sometimes heard people suggest you should consider increasing your credit limit on your credit card even if you don't need it because it can help as it shows you are able to control your spending and repay on time (meaning before you incur any interest). This is of course presuming you do have the discipline to control your spending and repay on time and that your credit limit is not so bad that you can't even get a credit card or an increase in credit limit. More generally making sure you pay your bills on time or better, early (particularly if there is an early payment discount) helps. Obviously, make sure you have a job. And if you can, stay away from 'instant finance' or other high interest money lenders, hire-purchase, getting a loan to buy a car (or other items which devalue) etc (if you do have any of these, make sure you repay them on schedule). Nil Einne (talk) 15:56, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

And there's actually a point where your credit score will be hurt by having too much credit card limit, but you probably won't reach it while you have bad credit (the example a financial person gave me was someone with $200,000 credit limit total spread out on a few cards, and the credit rating went down a bit). --Wirbelwindヴィルヴェルヴィント (talk) 16:05, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

There is no best way as it depends on why you have bad credit. Get you credit reports and examine them carefully. Look for things that are wrong and dispute them. But the best way is to make sure you are current with your creditors and stay that way. If you have a legitimate debt that can't be repaid because the creditor is defunt, dispute that too. There is no fast way, short of removing false or unpayable records on your credit report, to improve your score. Think of credit like you would think of trust. It takes a long time to earn it and a very short time to burn it. Leftus (talk) 20:02, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Laptop and linux

Moved to WP:RD/C#Laptop and linux Algebraist 16:00, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

crossword answer

What is a Mississippi quartet? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.65.165.161 (talk) 16:38, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

It's not that kind of clue. You need to think of something or someone that comes in fours and is associated with Mississippi somehow, or something like that. (By the way, I'm deliberately being a bit obscure there. I know the answer because I did a Google search for "Mississippi quartet", but I think it'd take away the fun if I said more. If I'd actually been doing the puzzle, I'd have needed to see some letters in the word before thinking of the right answer.) --Anonymous, 16:55 UTC, June 18, 2008.

I'm guessing and probably wrong, but is it 4 Eyes? Sorry.. couldn't help myself. Boomshanka (talk) 05:49, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

If you gave two guesses like that, your second one might be right. Further hint: the correct answer is in my previous sentence as a sequence of consecutive letters within one of the words. --Anon, 02:52 UTC, June 21, 2008.

Two Teleological Questions

Two pretty much unrelated questions:

Firstly, my watch (an analogue quartz watch, made by Richelieu) has a circular component around the dial, inscribed with the numbers 10, 20, 40 and 50 in the right places and with marks to indicate the other minutes on the circumference, which can be manually turned anticlockwise to any minute (ie it moves in steps one minute wide). What is its purpose?

Secondly, on several suit jackets I've seen there exists an inside pocket on the left-hand side, in roughly the same place as the outside pocket but smaller. The inside breast pockets I can understand as convenient, but it seems like a strange place to put a pocket. Is there some specific purpose to it?

Thanks for the help, Daniel (‽) 18:10, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

For question 1, I believe the component you are speaking of is called a "bezel" (a term for which we don't have an article, and which has several meanings, anyway). Please take a look at Diving watch for a photograph of a watch with an "elapsed time counter" bezel and see if that is similar to your timepiece. There is also a description of how this is used within the article. I'm not good at clothing design, so I'll pass on the second question. --LarryMac | Talk 19:09, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

The first thing I think is a bezel, which doesn't seem to have a wikipedia page. Ah well, I always thought it was for 'timing' things - you set it to the current time so you can see how much time has passed in minutes. But my watch doesn't have one...

The second, I use for my mobile phone (and seeing from your use of 'anticlockwise', I avoided saying 'cellphone'). It seems really convenient to me if this is indeed its 'true' purpose. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.125.225.157 (talk) 19:12, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

I agree with the answers on the first question, so won't repeat. But for the second, I've always used this pocket for pens. Dismas|^(talk) 19:33, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Yes, the first item is indeed a bezel; thanks for teaching me a new word! As for the pocket, I suppose I'll have to become a sartorial pioneer and come up with my own purpose. Perhaps I shall start a new trend. Thanks, all.

Daniel (‽) 18:00, 19 June 2008 (UTC) I understood the pocket was inside for safety.

When I worked in a tailors' shop, it was always called a wallet pocket.hotclaws 05:16, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

meat

How long will meat last in your refrigerator before it goes bad? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.167.13.173 (talk) 20:10, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

There's a lot of variation. Type of meat? Exact cut? Raw or cooked? Sealed how? My personal rule of thumb for raw meats is the sell-by date plus three, but I don't have any sort of scientific backing for it. — Lomn 20:47, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

No single duration for all meat. The answer depends on: 1. the mass of the meat 2. the bacterial count 3. how long it has been since the animal was slaughtered 4. the temperature of your refrigerator 5. your olfactory and gustatory tolerance for meat breakdown products 6. presence of any substances or treatments to retard spoilage Dalembert (talk) 20:48, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Well generally I don't put meat in the refrigerator when its raw unless I'm going to use it either the very next day or the day I put in the refrigerator. It kinda also depends on your refrigerator. I find that my refrigerator has meat last a pretty good time (five days at the least) when I put it in the meat locker. When meat is cooked it has to kind of depend on the meat. Fat tends to rot first so if you have particular fatty piece of meat then it probably won't last that long. When it comes to cooked food I like to say its good for three days after you cook it. answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070520013423AAvvQEN - 46k - That might help a little. But I think everyone said everything else.

Always

Cardinal Raven (talk) 23:25, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Wait, your fat's rotting? 79.66.85.219 (talk) 12:07, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Couldn't find a good simple reference, but as a rule: the more processed it is, the less it will last. Sausages, patties, ground meat (mince in some countries) involves working with the meat, temperature variation, moisture and mixing of various products, all good opportunities to introduce bacteria and induce spoilage. Respect the use-by date. Slabs of meat such as steak are much safer, indeed steak is sterile on the inside. You can let the use by date slide a few days and it will still be fine. If in doubt, check with your cat first. Mhicaoidh (talk) 11:16, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Don't Mess up the Rolling Groove

Good evening. I love Katamari Damashi games especially the ones on the Playstation 2. I have a few questions about Katamari. What drugs were they on when they made this game? Also, what is missing in Beautiful Katamari? I've noticed while playing Beautiful Katamari that I am not enjoying it as much as the other games. It seems like Beautiful Katamari is missing something. I like the way the Playstation 2 games played. In Beautiful Katamari all you have been doing is rolling in a city. Where is the odd places? You know in We Love Katamari they had garden, a snow level, an earth level, etc. There is only a city. I don't want to just roll in a city for every goal I am suppose to do. Then they have you find items that you can't find in the level. They say find expensive metal. You only find a few expensive metal stuff in that level. Why didn't they design the way they did with the other games? I remember in the first Katamari it was difficult not because you couldn't find the bear they were asking for because there was so many bears and you wanted pick up the biggest bear. I also remember giving you the ones were you just rolled up and got bigger, then they had the challenges like make a snow man head, and then they had collect us much as you can in a certain time. Where is that? Where is the rotation? Then they give impossible time limits to get things. I'm suppose to get 500m in nine minutes(I usually get to four hundred meters then I only have fifty six seconds to get the rest). It would have been much easier if they made the time not go by so fast.(Even so I still get extremely larger then what they ask me when the time limit goes so fast.) All they did was suck the fun out of what use to be a good game by doing whatever they did in Beautiful Katamari. They have ruined my Rolling Groove totally. Thank you for answering my question and sifting through my rant. Have a positively wonderful evening.Rem Nightfall (talk) 22:17, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

The Reference Desk is not a soapbox for posting rants. Is there an answerable question here? — Lomn 22:42, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm sorry. I will watch what I put on the reference desk.Rem Nightfall (talk) 01:37, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Cheap Bike Parts

Where are some cheap bike parts in Spokane, WA?

I have already googled some stores down, but i just need a few parts —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ratheinea (talk • contribs) 23:22, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

<moved from humanities desk>

Bicycle or Motorcycle? Dismas|^(talk) 00:39, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Here are the hum desk contributions:

Where are some cheap bike parts in Spokane, WA?

I have already googled some stores down, but i just need a few parts —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ratheinea (talk • contribs) 23:22, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

What does this have to do with the humanities? Wrad (talk) 23:26, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Where else was i supposed to post? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ratheinea (talk • contribs) 23:37, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Miscellaneous, possibly? Algebraist 23:46, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Perhaps we should humor him and discuss the philosophical, cultural, and religious implications of cheap bicycle parts ? :-) StuRat (talk) 00:31, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Already well covered by Robert M. Pirsig, amongst others. --Tagishsimon (talk) 00:40, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Ok I am sorry I didn't mean to post in humanities. The miscellaneous blog wasn't working. Bicycle Parts.

June 19

Rice

Yeah I'm the only man you'll ever find interested in that white grain. Why do westerners like their rice not clumped, but Easterners(I hope that is what you call most Asian cultures and whoever else likes their rice clumped) like their rice clump? Personally, clump rice is the best there is no mess to clean up. How do I clump rice the way Easterners do?Cardinal Raven (talk) 00:49, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

After cooking, stuff the rice in a cup then tap the cup lightly to put the rice in the plate. Now you have a measured and clumped rice.--Lenticel ^(talk) 01:18, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Well more or less I mean sticky. Cause the moment I began to eat the measured clump of rice it will just fall into a nice little pile. Also I want to eat my rice with chopsticks and just measuring won't do much when you want to eat it with chopsticks.I guess I'm asking how do I get my rice sticky enough to eat with chopsticks?Cardinal Raven (talk) 01:27, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Oh... we don't use chopsticks here. Glutinous rice or malagkit is usually too "tasty" accompany vegetables or meat. Filipinos prepare it differenly as a seperate dish such as bebinca, suman and champorado.--Lenticel ^(talk) 02:48, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

If you're referring to "sticky rice", which you can roll into a ball (such as in Thai or Lao cooking), then see Glutinous rice. It's a specific type. (That article also has many links that you mind find useful in tracking down types of rice.) Gwinva (talk) 01:34, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

I don't know why. But, I'd have to agree. I don't like my rice sticky, but they do in the Philippines were I have spent a considerable amount of time. Useight (talk) 01:37, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Part of it is for practical reasons. Glutinous rice - as hinted at above - is far easier to eat with chopsticks than other rice. And there's nothing better than a hot place of satay beef on a bed of rice, eaten with chopsticks. Yum. Grutness...wha? 02:04, 19 June 2008 (UTy

Glutinous rice, such as you'd have in a Thai restaurant, is one way to eat sticky rice. Another is the way Hawaii locals like it, which is to start with medium-grain calrose rice. If you have a rice cooker, use about 1.5 parts water for every 1 part rice. Perfect sticky rice-ball quality rice almost every time. If you're cooking on the cooktop, cook in a small pot on low, and use about twice as much water as rice. Mitchell k dwyer (talk) 05:45, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Generally Long-grain rice is the loose type generally used for fried rice, which absorbs the least amount of water. Then you have the Medium/Short grain rice which clump and can be eaten with chopsticks, but not sticky like glutinous rice. This is the type I (south Chinese) normally eat, and it's also used in Sushi's. Then there's glutinous rice, which is very very sticky and leaves much more a mess than the other 2 types of rice, and generally only used in special dishes in Chinese cuisine. Westerners may be accustomed to the fried-rice style rice and thus like them more. To the OP: depending on what you're eating you don't necessarily need to eat rice with chopsticks. In Chinese cuisine the chopsticks are used as a scoop to scoop it up in bowls. --antilived^{T | C | G} 08:22, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure OP didn't mean glutinous rice, but trying to cook long grain rice to be sticky, or short/medium grain rice without it being so dry, so I think only Antilived hit the mark. If you're cooking with long grain, switch to short/medium grain, and if you're using short/medium grain, try adding a little bit more water (like in a rice cooker, I add 1 parts rice with 1.5 parts of water, and it comes out not too hard and not too sticky). But if you're preparing it in a pot, I have actually never made rice in a pan other than boxed rice. --Wirbelwindヴィルヴェルヴィント (talk) 15:59, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Oh, and I forgot. In some rice cookers, it's better to let it sit even after it's done for awhile (like 30 minutes), and it usually dries the surfaces and leaves the rice itself moist and sticky still. But I'm not sure if this only applies to old style rice cookers. --Wirbelwindヴィルヴェルヴィント (talk) 16:02, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

In almost ALL rice-cookers is it better to let the rice sit for twenty minutes or so (depending on how much rice you've made). The rice cooker knows when to shut itself off based on the temperature of the pot (when most of the water has steamed off, the pot itself gets hotter). The manufacturers of rice-cookers count on your allowing the rice to sit. The original poster has specifically used the word onigiri, and I submit that the rice he or she is looking for is most definitely medium-grain calrose rice, such as I described in my first response.Mitchell k dwyer (talk) 03:23, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

First off I was thinking of buying a rice cooker. Second off I wanted clumpy or sticky rice because not only do I want to eat my rice with chopsticks I wanted to make certain things such as onigiri and other stuff that requires my rice not to fall apart. Maybe I should have asked in the very beginning do I have to have special rice to do that? Because even that question is answered. Personal reminder, add all questions. All well I like my answers so its okay.Cardinal Raven (talk) 16:06, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

As to your question about why Westerners don't like their rice clumped: the types of rice grown in the West before trade opened up were naturally less prone to clumping, because they had less starch in their outer layers. Westerners also associate clumpy food with poor preparation, especially with respect to savory food: sweet food can be sticky, but clumpy rice is up there with lumpy mashed potatoes and stuck-together pasta - the texture was simply "wrong". And so many Western (or westernized) rice dishes like paella, pilaf and casserole require rice that doesn't glom together. --NellieBly (talk) 21:14, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Just soak the long grain rice in water for 10-20mins and drain, add more water (more than you usually would) and cook slowly until the water is just about evaporated. It will then be 'sticky'. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.20.19.4 (talk) 15:58, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Not all Asian cultures have equally sticky rice. For example, Indian Basmati rice is waaay less sticky than Japanese. 74.14.117.135 (talk) 01:58, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia Hierachy

I've always been curious to know the hierarchy of WP. From what I understand, the account hierarchies goes like this, increasing status:

• Banned user
• Unregistered user
• Registered user
• Bot
• Administrator/SysOp
• Checkuser and Oversight
• Bureaucrat
• Steward
• Developer

Is this correct? Are Checkusers and Oversights on the same level? Thanks. Acceptable (talk) 02:29, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

No user is "above" another, however, I suppose if you wanted to sort by number of rights each account type has, I definitely wouldn't put a bot "above" a registered user. Bots don't think for themselves. Bots can't comment in discussions. It is true that bureaucrats, stewards, checkusers, and oversighters can do things that an admin cannot, they don't carry more weight in a discussion to find consensus. Useight (talk) 05:40, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

You've left off autoconfirmed (and founder, I suppose). Algebraist 06:53, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

In terms of who carries more clout in a discussion, in between "Registered user" also breaks down, in my experience, into "Registered user with more than a handful of edits and a user page" and "Registered user with a handful of edits or no userpage". Also you left Jimbo off the list—he is sort of his own category, in terms of policymaking and clout in discussions. --98.217.8.46 (talk) 12:33, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Number of edits certainly counts. I once saw a bunch of admins refuse to acknowledge the vote of a user because he/she had fewer than 500 main-space edits. I thought it was ridiculous but the fact that it counts remains. Zain Ebrahim (talk) 17:44, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Nobody has more "clout" in a discussion, though naturally you can expect admins etc to have more common sense (Well, maybe not :-p), though there are plenty of people, like say, User:SandyGeorgia who are just noraml users and are very well respected, more so than many admins (I suppose admins make a lot of enemies...)--Serviam (talk) 23:50, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Trying To Find a Pair of Glasses Frames Like These

50's-style scientist glasses. Like #6 on this page:

http://www.propspecs.com/glasses/rocknroll.htm

Unfortunately, that site is just for "prop" frames, so I can't really get them from there. I need to either find actual vintage frames or a modern version that looks pretty much the same. E^robson (T^alk) 04:00, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Nothing to stop you replacing the pane with prescriptions. On closer inspection, they're an actual frames company using that name for their marketing niche. My messy post, Julia Rossi (talk) 05:27, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Second hand, vintage or charity shops, garage boot sales and antique fairs will be time consuming but you will end up finding them. 200.127.59.151 (talk) 15:37, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Dare I suggest... eBay? Search for "horn rim frames" there. Warning: vintage frames like that ain't always cheap. --98.217.8.46 (talk) 19:12, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Velpeau’s Law

I recently came across the term “Velpeau’s Law”, which is apparently used to describe the experience of a doctor seeing a patient with a very rare condition, then a short time later has another, entirely unrelated, patient with the same rare condition. This was in a book about synchronicity. I can’t find anything about Velpeau's Law on the web, and the only Velpeau we have an article on says nothing about it either.

Then, a few days later, I was reading a different book, on the subject of things people said that they might have wished they hadn’t said, and I found this quote: "The abolishment [sic] of pain in surgery is a chimera. It is absurd to go on seeking it." (Dr Alfred Velpeau, 1839). Our article confirms he did indeed have scepticism about pain-free surgery, so I can nail that one down.

I thought finding these 2 references to the previously unheard-of (by me) Velpeau in a short space of time was a nice example of both synchronicity and Velpeau’s Law in a non-medical context. But that aside, is the term “Velpeau’s Law” generally used by the medical fraternity, and does it originate, as I assume, from Alfred Velpeau, or from another Velpeau? -- JackofOz (talk) 07:11, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Until a Velpeaunik drops by, I'd call it occult. You're a spooky possum, Julia Rossi (talk) 12:43, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

I've never heard the term, but I only work with MDs—I'm not one myself. I can find only one web reference to Velpeau's law (in this blog entry) where it is defined exactly as JackOfOz describes.

Really, though, the phenomenon can stem from a number root causes. It can arise purely through a combination of psychological priming and a misunderstanding of statistics. Consider that there are some thousands of different diseases which are known to modern medicine. Over the course of Doctor X's career, he sees thousands upon thousands of patients, most of whom have quite common ailments. A small group contract rare and unusual diseases. Let's say that Dr. X sees fifty patients with rare diseases; for simplicity's sake, let's say that among them they contract twenty-five unique ailments, with two cases of each.

Sprinkle those cases randomly over Dr. X's career, and most of the pairs will end up years, even decades, apart. A few, by pure chance and coincidence, will end up very close together in time—almost certainly the same year, possibly the same month or week. (The odds of a coincidence are actually quite a bit higher than one's intuition might suggest—see birthday problem.) Dr. X says to himself, "Well isn't that odd...two such unusual cases just a month apart, and I haven't seen any others in twenty years of work." Of course, he doesn't think about the twenty-four other rare diseases which were evenly distributed over his career.

That leaves aside the effect of cases that are related in a way that the doctor doesn't know about: two strangers who sat next to each other on the bus; the mailman who passed a genetic defect on to the lonely housewife's son. This analysis also neglects the possibility that there were other cases of the rare disease in Dr. X's career, but he missed the diagnosis, the diagnosis was made by a specialist but the paperwork was lost, or Dr. X forgot about the case after ten or twenty years. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 14:08, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

That blog is more significant than you know, Ten. The book I referred to above, where I first came across the term, was in part a collection of contributions from people from all over the world about their experiences of synchronicity. (For those interested, the book was ‘’Soul Moments: Marvelous Stories of Synchronicity- Meaningful Coincidences from a Seemingly Random World’’. It was put together by Phil Cousineau, with a foreword by Robert A. Johnson). This particular story was written by one Roberto Takaoka, a doctor working in Sao Paolo, Brazil. The blog you located is written by Walter Whitton Harris, who lives in, you guessed it, Sao Paolo, Brazil. Takoaka's story was dated 16-22 November 1993, and the blog was written December 2007: so unless Takaoka and Harris know each other, "Velpeau’s Law" seems to be term used by Sao Paolians and not much elsewhere. How odd. Yet another bit of sychronicity. I agree with everything you say about the scientific/rational analysis of these coincidences; but from the metaphysical angle, they are indeed meaningful. Just what they mean, though ...... -- JackofOz (talk) 07:31, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

For a related adage named after a person, I only found Littlewood's law on WP. ---Sluzzelin talk 11:33, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

South Africa + Restaurants + Take-aways etc.

Please please

I need some help?

I am trying to do some Market Research and I need some information as follows:

How many Restaurants are there in South Africa? How many fast-food outlets are there in South Africa? How many liquor stores are there in South Africa? etc

please could you put me in the right direction?

Thank you thank you —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.208.40.15 (talk) 08:17, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

The Yellow Pages at http://www.yellowpages.co.za/search.jsp?query=Restaurants&location= may give you some idea on the numbers of these types of commercial enterprises. --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 11:37, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Problem is, not everyone is in the Yellow Pages. I would guess a search on the CIPRO page would give you a more accurate result, as everyone has to register at the DTI. Otherwise give Markinor a call and I'm sure they would be helpful in guiding you. Sandman30s (talk) 12:40, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Insects

Are all insects attracted to light, or is it just some families/genera, or just some individual species? Thanks in advance. 80.123.210.172 (talk) 08:49, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

No. Some, for example Woodlice and Cockroaches, move away from light because they have negative phototaxis, and some for example moths and flies are attracted to light because they have positive phototaxis. D0762 (talk) 10:37, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

That doesn't really answer the question though... If I'm following correctly... Why then would one species have negative phototaxis and another have positive? Dismas|^(talk) 16:59, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

The behaviour of moths is discussed at Moth#Attraction to light. Woodlice live mostly in the dark, so I assume their light-aversion serves to keep them in their habitat and away from the eyes of predators. It might also stop them drying out. Algebraist 17:25, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Exactly. Woodlice need a damp environment because they breathe through gills. They are also detritivores which means they mainly eat dead plant matter that would need dampness to decompose well. In fact, Woodlice are not insects at all but crustaceans (they have seven pairs of legs, whereas insects have three). Generally, insects which move away from light do so to keep cool, damp, and out of view from predators, while those that move towards light do so to keep warm or for navigation. D0762 (talk) 19:35, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Becoming a microbiologist.

Let's say I want to become a microbiologist, but I don't know how. Where do I start? What degrees and/or studies would I need? How can I become a good microbiologist? Thanks in advance. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ann Caitlyn Johnson (talk • contribs) 09:18, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Become a biologist, then get a mad scientist to use his shrink ray on you ? StuRat (talk) 09:51, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

But seriously, first you will need a good background in science and math, with, of course, the emphasis on biology. Then, in your later years at college, you can narrow the focus of your studies to microbiology. StuRat (talk) 09:51, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Assuming you want to be a proper researcher and not just a lab technician, then you pretty much have to get a PhD. I am not sure which country you are in but the general idea is the same, I'm in the UK and I'm not a microbiologist but I am a biologist which is close. At high school you will want to specialise in science subjects. I did Maths, Chemistry and Biology at A-Level (16-18) add Physics if you want. Do an undergraduate degree in Biology, it needn't be Microbiology specifically as you will probably get to pick the modules that interest you. A 2.1 (the second top grade roughly a B) or better is generally required if you want to do a PhD. I personally think that if you are certain you are going to do a PhD then a Masters is a bit of a waste of time and money so I would recommend to go straight from undergraguate to PhD. Find a poject and a lab you think you will enjoy enough to stick at it. Once you have your PhD, get a job, hey presto! you are a microbiologist.Franmars (talk) 11:29, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

To clarify Franmars, I think when he/she says go straight to a PhD I believe he/she means that you need to apply to a PhD program. That is the way it is in the US and I don't think the UK is that different. After your undergraduate education you can apply to either a terminal Masters program or a PhD program. Terminal masters programs tend to be for people who have not distinguished themselves in the undergraduate career and will need a bit more time to develop their skills/recommendations/resume before applying to a PhD program. At the terminal masters program you will work towards your masters only. Whereas in a PhD program you will first get your masters then work towards a PhD. I know that information about terminal programs is true for the US, but it may be less true in other countries, so be sure to verify this if you are in another country.

If you have not started your undergraduate education I would highly recommend you go to your local library and try to find a book that deals with "careers in biology" or another related book (or buy one from Amazon or local equivalent). They tend to explain what is generally required before you apply to graduate school, the types of courses you need to take, the GPA requirements, any standardized tests, what you should expect from the PhD program.

Also you may want to try to find a mentor of sorts at the school you do your undergrad work at. Ask them what needs to be done before you apply to school. Often times professors are willing to help students out who show an interest. And one last recommendation, again this is true for US universities but I don't know how widespread this is, you may want to try to work/intern in research labs as an undergrad, even if it is grunt work (cleaning slides or equipment, setting up basic equipment). There are several benefits: experience doing actual science, vivid examples of how to operationalize a question, a good recommendation, maybe (if you're lucky) your name on the tail end of some paper.--droptone (talk) 12:30, 19 June 2008 (UTC)--

I think things are somewhat different in much of the Commonwealth, including I think the UK. A PhD is a PhD and it is rare you will start off with a Masters. However to do a PhD in the UK and in a number of Commonwealth countries, you will usually need to have either done a Masters, or a (probably first class) Honours degree as part of your B.Sc. In the UK, an Honours is fairly automatic provided you do well enough. In Australia and NZ it isn't for most science degrees, you have to do an extra year which usually involves some postgraduate study and research. Note that in a lot of the Commonwealth, PhDs are intended to be completed within 3 years (even if few achieve that). You are therefore usually expected to have some idea of what you are doing when you start your PhD and will likely have a problem coping if not. This is I believe unlike the US where as Droptone mentioned, you often start off with a Masters which becomes a PhD hence you are not really expected to have much experience in a real lab (although it doesn't hurt) and are usually I believe given up to 5 years to complete your PhD. Nil Einne (talk) 12:13, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

That isn't necessarily so. In biological sciences in the UK, the lower threshold for acceptance to a PhD-track program is usually a 2:1 Honours degree, not a first class degree. Moreover, in the UK one almost always actually registers for a MPhil, then after one year transfers to a PhD. For most PhD-track students this a mere formality, so its often assumed one registers immediately for a PhD. But that is rarely the case. Rockpocket 00:16, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

As Franmars said (at least in the U.S.) it is often not necessary or desirable to get a Master's on the way to getting a PhD - just do the Phd and get on to the post-doc work. Rmhermen (talk) 18:52, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

New Olympic Sporting Events

How many countries does a sport like say lacrosse need to be played in before it can become partof the Olympic Games? 71.231.122.22 (talk) 09:58, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

It's at the discretion of the IOC and its subcommittees. There is not fixed requirement of the sort you suggest. — Lomn 13:00, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

It also isn't just a matter of number of countries, but also how widespread the sport is. If it's only played on one or two continents, but in few other places in the world, the IOC will generally not consider it. I've often wondered why roller skating competitions haven't been made Olympic sports. They're big in the Pan Am Games, and I can't imagine roller skating isn't big outside of the Western Hemisphere. Corvus cornix_talk 17:54, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Sports need to be widespread and there has to be a well developed international competition calendar, including world championships, etc. This is where Women's ski jumping had issues with getting into the Winter Olympics. - Eron^Talk 19:20, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Number of countries is but one of many hurdles a sport has to go through. part of the problem is that, for logistics reasons, the IOC has a strict limit on the number of sports played at the Olympics. even sports played in many countries with well-developed international competitions struggle (cricket, for instance, is played at international level in over 100 countries and in all continents bar Antarctica - from Estonia to Afghanistan, Brazil to Japan - and has had world championships since the 1970s, but it consistently fails in its bids to be adopted as an Olympic sport). Because of the limit, a sport has to be dropped before a new one is adopted, and that causes massive lobbying among both sports. Grutness...wha? 00:53, 20 June 2008 (UTC) (Roller skating is an organised sport? Who knew?)

This link [6] from the article Olympic Sports. Shows that baseball and softball were voted off the Olympic programme after the Athens 2004 Olympics. There was a consequent vote to nominate two sports to fill the spaces, Karate, Roller Sports, Rugby, Squash and Golf were the options and Squash and Karate won. However, neither succeeded in a subsequent vote to add them to the summer games. So it seems for the 2012 games there will be two fewer sports. Franmars (talk) 08:44, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Roller skating has speed events and artistic events just like ice skating does. Corvus cornix_talk 17:50, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Polska

I wish to ask a question on the Polish wiki ref desk, and thus get replies from Poles. Can some one please give me a link. Thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.115.175.247 (talk) 13:06, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

The sidebar at Wikipedia:Reference desk has an interwiki link to pl:Wikipedia:Pytania merytoryczne. I don't read Polish, but that appears to be the right place. Algebraist 15:37, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Bull ring stunt

What are the origins of the stunt where a person stands inside a bull ring blind folded and smoking a cig? I've seen this stunt pulled in one of the Jackass movies and in a Tom and Jerry cartoon. --Endless Dan 15:13, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Bull games go back through history. The cigaratte stunt is just a gimmick. Unless sacrifice is involved they operate much as an American rodeo with catchers (or whatever they are called) monitoring events. In the south of France the bull games are not lethal. Ribbons and cockades are tied to the bull's horns and young men leap to secure them. A cash value is placed on each. The bulls play more often than the individual men and so get very skilful at avoiding. Sometimes a man is injured, but very very seldom a bull.86.209.154.30 (talk) 14:03, 20 June 2008 (UTC)DT

Sport gender question

Watching the Germany-Portugal game in the football European Championship 2008 and thinking about my earlier question about samba carnivals made me realise something. Why are the players in these sports championships always invariably all men? Surely women like to play sports as well. Why are not half of the players men and half women? Of course, given that football is a contact sport, mixed men and women would not probably work out. But why are there not separate men's games and women's games in the championships? Why do only men play all games? Is it because women are generally not interested in such tough contact sports, or because the longer history of men's sport has made the men's teams better players and more famous? I was just thinking about how I still had not got a real answer to why samba carnivals only feature women, and then I realised the opposite is true for sports championships. JIP | Talk 19:08, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Women do play these sports, and they have their own championships; see FIFA Women's World Cup for example. Women also play competitive ice hockey, rugby union, basketball, etc. Your question may more be about why the women's events are not as popular or well-known. - Eron^Talk 19:16, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, that certainly helps. If there are women's championship games too, why are they not played in combination with the men's championship games? Why do people get all excited about the men's games and only pay attention to the women's games for the explicit sake of equality? On the other hand, I still haven't got an answer to why samba carnivals only feature women. But that is another question. I have realised I have all this time subconsciously been thinking it's all right when only men do something, but when only women do something, it raises my curiosity. This is bad for gender equality and I must try to be more objective. JIP | Talk 19:31, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

You are essentially describing the phenomena of gender roles and expectations. --98.217.8.46 (talk) 21:09, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

It's not just about gender expectations. In most sports, the top male players are enormously better than the top female players. Thus, the top male event is the top event in the sport. It's natural for this to be the thing people are most interested in. The first example that comes to mind of a sport where this is not the case is eventing. Here women are at no particular disadvantage, and compete alongside men (in the Olympics for example). Algebraist 21:15, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Tennis is an exception to that. Men are infinitely better but women still get a relatively large share of the popularity. I wonder why that might be. Zain Ebrahim (talk) 21:37, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

First off I have to say how much I hate sports. Its just a couple of guys chasing after a ball on nice green grass...whoopy!(no offense to you.) Part of the answer to your question has to do with history. Woman in history were only viewed as property.(I don't know how to phrase that better.) Certain cultures and religions in modern time still believe woman as nothing. One of the religious groups that believes woman aren't part of society are the Muslims.

www.thenoor.org/muslimwomaninsociety.htm - 35k

Now I'm not sure if those historical views carry on today even in sports. So I looked up some stuff. I don't want sound like an expert when I only know half of what I am saying.

www.womenssportsfoundation.org...Equity-Issues...Values-and-Sports.aspx - 31k

www.accessmylibrary.com - 32k

So I help all the links work, they help, and I at least answered some of your question correctly.Cardinal Raven (talk) 20:39, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

I don't wish to side track this into a debate, but surely you could have provided your views on the question without making an overly generalized criticism of one religion. Many religions and cultures, to this day, fail to accord women equal status with men. - Eron^Talk 22:44, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

I don't think the "women used to be viewed as property" thing is a factor so much as the physical fact that men tend to be stronger. So much of competitive sports depends on muscular strength of one kind or another that people expect the top male players to automatically be better than the top females. And spectators usually want to watch the best players.

Of course, there is also a stereotyping issue as mentioned above, i.e. the belief that doing sports and watching sports both are or should be things mostly done by men, which is somewhat self-perpetuating.

I can certainly think of sports where women's championships are covered in much the way that ment's are: curling, figure skating, gymnastics, and tennis come to mind for starters. But all of them are non-contact sports and some are the kind where the score involves artistic judgement, which may be considered a different kind of endeavor altogether.

--Anonymous, 21:30 UTC, June 19, 2008.

Beach Volleyball? Nil Einne (talk) 12:20, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

One of the issues has to do with the depth of the field. For a variety of reasons - cultural, social, psychlogical, physiological, who knows - there still seems to be a broad-based mindset that certain sports are appropriate for boys, and certain for girls. Pretty much all of the contact sports, and many of the physically active team sports, are still considered boys sports. More agressive or demanding individual sports are also seen this way. Parents who choose a sport for their child gravitate towards the sports that are considered gender-appropriate. Children participating in sport also tend to express interest in the sports that they see are gender-appropriate. As a result, there are many more boys playing sports like ice hockey, American football, or rugby union than there are girls. If we assume that only a tiny fraction of the children who take up a sport have the capacity, skill, and drive to succeed at the highest levels, then this effect is multiplied as they progress through the ranks.

For example, If 0.01% of children who take up ice hockey have the potential to be national team players, and if the sport is taken up by girls at 10% the rate at which it is taken up by boys, then for every 100,000 boys who start to play ice hockey, we will see 10 national calibre eighteen year old men - and one woman. As a result, in many of these sports there are not sufficient numbers of girls and women in the sport to sustain high level national and international level competition.

These trends are changing, albeit slowly. In North America, for example, soccer is becoming more and more a gender neutral sport. I've also noted anecdotally that, in Canada at least, triathlon is a very equitable sport at the developmental levels. - Eron^Talk 13:46, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

In the US, at least, women's figure skating and women's gymnastics are much more popular than their male equivalents. For example, the US Women's Figure Skating Championships are shown live in prime time TV, whereas men's and pairs are shown on tape delay, days later, and usually on Saturday morning or afternoon. Corvus cornix_talk 17:55, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

June 20

www.penisaur.com

Does anyone own this website? I'd check by going to the site myself but I'm scared it'll give me a virus.

Apparently, nobody owns it yet... Dismas|^(talk) 00:41, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

(ec) Indeed. So, happy blogging! - Eron^Talk 00:43, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Too bad both penisaurus.com and penisaurusrex.com are taken. (Note that both are porn sites.) By the way, an easy way to check if someone owns it—in fact, a much more reliable one than "going to the site"—is just checking on a DNS registrar, like GoDaddy.com. --98.217.8.46 (talk) 01:45, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Dishwashing detergent

I have a completely ordinary dishwasher, which has in the usual fashion two detergent cups: one open, one with a lid. The "Normal" wash cycle actually fills the cabinet with water, sprays it around for a while, then pumps it out three times; it is during the second and longest of these cycles that the closed detergent cup opens, and the bulk of the washing happens.

If I leave the open cup empty, then the first cycle is called the Pre-Rinse cycle, and its function is primarily to knock off the loose stuff. But, if I put detergent in the open cup, then the first cycle is called a Pre-Wash cycle, and presumably does a better job of loosening up some of the dried-on crud. In either case, at the end of this cycle the dirty water and whatever came loose is pumped out and the main wash cycle begins.

So, (finally) my question: suppose I wish to use only one spoonful of detergent. Am I better off dividing it in half or 40/60 or whatever, so that some detergent is used up and discarded and then replaced by "fresh"; or should I leave the small cup empty, let plain water do whatever it can and have the full shot of detergent applied only in the second cycle?

(Please do not advise to RTFM -- or the fine Box in this case -- as I believe the goal of detergent manufacturers is to sell as much detergent as possible.)

P.S. This is not a homework question, I know that's a hot issue for some people :-). --Danh, 70.59.79.230 (talk) 00:44, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

I will suggest RTFMing anyway -- not the detergent manual but the dishwasher manual. Alternatively, experiment. At worst you'll get dishes that aren't clean and you have to run the thing another time. --Anonymous, 05:20 UTC, June 20/08.

Morrowind IV: Oblivion

Good evening. I am having a bit of a issue here. Its hard to trust the little box. Morrowind IV: Oblivion has a Game of the Year Edition that comes with all the other expansion. Will I need Xbox Live to use the expansion packs or are the expansions been put into the game on one disk? Also, how much is the cost of Game of the Year Edition compared to just the game? Thank you for answering my question. I really appreciate it. Have a positively wonderful evening.Rem Nightfall (talk) 01:35, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Morrowind and Oblivion are different games. Do you mean The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind or The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion? Raven4x4x (talk) 03:57, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Elder Scrolls: Oblivion...I'm sorry I call the game Morrowind all the time I get confused and then I confuse other people. So I mean the fourth game Oblivion.Rem Nightfall (talk) 04:04, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

You don't need Xbox Live to play the expansions if you buy the Game of the Year version. The price difference on amazon.com at least is $30 - see [7] and [8]. However, they may be priced differently at other retailers. -Elmer Clark (talk) 01:17, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

baseball game question

So I was just watching the College World Series between LSU and North Carolina. It was the top of the first inning, and North Carolina was leading 2-0, with the bases loaded and 1 out. The game was immediately suspended following severe lightning storms. Does the game reset the following day with no score? I heard that if less than five innings were complete, the game restarts, but if five or more innings are complete the game is called. Anyone know the ruling on this?76.194.67.13 (talk) 03:11, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

That's what it is in the majors, where teams usually have multiple opportunities to make up a called game. However, according to this story ([9]), the game will be resumed Friday, which makes sense for an event that has to end on schedule. Mitchell k dwyer (talk) 07:41, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Bezel II

after reading the above question on bezels, I'm prompted to ask about my watch. It's from a gift from Mazda and it has a counterclockwise rotating dial with the code: reading from the left (3 letter break) POL LON PAH GAI MOW OXB NMI DSC RAA HKG IYO SYO NWW SKI MOY HNL ANC LAY BEN MEX MYC CCS RIO

what does this mean? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.240.203.201 (talk) 03:19, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

My guess...it's a secret decoder ring!!! Err...watch. Secret decoder watch. Yeah. Woo hoo! --Prestidigitator (talk) 04:57, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Well, either the manufacturer has goofed badly or or you have misread/miscopied several of the letters and left out one 3-letter code; and, in addition, the watch is out of date.

The "HNL ANC LAY BEN MEX MYC CCS RIO" part obviously should read "HNL ANC LAX DEN MEX NYC CCS RIO", standing for: Honolulu, Anchorage, Los Angeles, Denver, Mexico City, New York, Caracas, and Rio de Janeiro, whose time zones (ignoring daylight saving time) until recently were respectively 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, and 3 hours west of UTC. Interpreting and correcting the rest of the sequence, I leave as an exercise for the reader. :-) Unfortunately, Venezuela changed its time zone recently and Caracas is now 4:30 west of UTC. They would have done better to put HFX for Halifax instead.

--Anonymous, edited 05:43 UTC, June 20/08.

more like the watch maker goofed, the alphabetical sequence is copied correctly, oh well. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.240.203.201 (talk) 16:20, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Others on the list include LON - London, MOW - Moscow, HGK - Hong Kong... but other than that it's a guess - is SYO really SYD - Sydney? IYO really TYO - Tokyo? Some of them seem to be odd mixes of national and city codes too... POL for Portugal, Lisbon, NWW for (NZW) New Zealand, Wellington? Is OXB meant to be UZB? A mysterious list... Grutness...wha? 00:51, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

You have done well, Grutness. I'm sure that LON, MOW, HKG (not HGK), SYO=SYD, and IYO=TYO are correct, since they all fit the time zone sequence. But Lisbon is on time zone 0, like London. Zone −1 is much less populated, but it includes the Azores, and I think the answer is to be found there. And New Zealand is on +12, not +11. I think NWW is Nouméa, New Caledonia; its correct IATA code is NOU, but perhaps someone was confused by its ICAO code, which is NWWW. The obvious city to use for zone +12 would be Auckland, and given the number of errors elsewhere in the list, I think it's reasonable to conjecture that SKI is a mistake for AKL -- the first letter is a typing error (adjacent keys) while the third letter represents a misreading, like in SYO and IYO.

I've decided this is fun enough to make a try at the complete list, but even using a list of airport codes that I downloaded a while ago in conjunction with the Wikipedia list of time zones, I was only able to get answers for 20 of the 23 codes. Here's what I have:

Zone	On watch	Correct	City	Location
−1	POL	PDL	Ponta Delgada	Azores, Portugal
0	LON	same	London*	England, UK
+1	PAH	PAR	Paris*	France
+2	GAI	CAI	Cairo	Egypt
+3	MOW	same	Moscow*	Russia
+4	OXB	DXB	Dubai	UAE
+5	NMI	?	?	?
+6	DSC	DAC	Dhaka	Bangladesh
+7	RAA	?	?	?
+8	HKG	same	Hong Kong	China
+9	IYO	TYO	Tokyo*	Japan
+10	SYO	SYD	Sydney	NSW, Australia
+11	NWW	NOU	Nouméa	New Caledonia
+12	SKI	AKL	Auckland	New Zealand
−11	MOY	?	?	?
−10	HNL	same	Honolulu	HI, USA
−9	ANC	same	Anchorage	AK, USA
−8	LAY	LAX	Los Angeles	CA, USA
−7	BEN	DEN	Denver	CO, USA
−6	MEX	same	Mexico City	DF, Mexico
−5	MYC	NYC	New York*	NY, USA
−4	CCS	same	Caracas**	Venezuela
−3	RIO	same	Rio de Janeiro*	RJ, Brazil
−2	no code given

*These are codes in the IATA airport code series, but apply to the city rather than a specific airport.

**Not actually in the indicated time zone.

I wondered if MOY might be a mistake for MOI, but not only are the Cook Islands in zone +10, their main airport is at Rarotonga, not Mitiaro. So this seems most unlikely, but I don't have anything better.

The other two unsolved codes, NMI for zone +5 and RAA for +7, are in much more populous time zones, but I was not able to find plausible codes that they might have been errors for.

--Anonymous, 03:12 UTC, June 21, 2008.

P.S. (1) Isn't it impressive that more than half of the codes are wrong? (2) Two of the three unsolved codes are real airport codes, but too far from the proper time zones to be plausible errors. --Anon, 05:16, June 21.

Could NMI be intended to be KHI i.e. Karachi (or Jinnah International Airport)? Nil Einne (talk) 12:15, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

Social support

Shall much appreciate an economist pointing me to a site where I can obtain comparative data on the amount of GDP each of the EU countries allocates to social support/welfare.86.209.154.30 (talk) 14:05, 20 June 2008 (UTC)DT

See Welfare_state#The_welfare_state_and_social_expenditure Mattnad (talk) 15:38, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Belgian postal codes

How precise are Belgian postal codes? Are they as precise as UK ones, or as imprecise as French ones? In other words, how many addresses would a four-digit Belgian code typically cover? Thanks!--85.158.139.99 (talk) 16:13, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

I'd say less precise than in the UK where there can be several codes for one small street. In the capital, Brussels, the postal code fits the administrative commune (equivalent to the Parisian arrondissement or to the first half of a London postcode). Hope it helps. 200.127.59.151 (talk) 16:30, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks.--217.171.129.71 (talk) 07:02, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

Pictures of George W. Bush

Where can I find copyright-free pictures of George W. Bush, preferably of high quality. Copyright-free only in as much as they would be used in art projects with a large 'fair use' umbrella. 200.127.59.151 (talk) 16:23, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

As far as I understand it, any photo of him that was taken by a government employee carrying out the duties of their job as a photographer would fall under public domain. See the image in the info box at George W. Bush for instance. This should suit your needs. So, I'd suggest going to the White House's home page and finding most any image that you like unless there is a disclaimer on that particular photo. Dismas|^(talk) 16:32, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Mmhh... The White House site doesn't seem to have a picture section and all the photographs they show are too small to be printed (less than 8oo pixels on a side). Any other source would really be appreciated. 200.127.59.151 (talk) 22:54, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Google Images can be your friend. --98.217.8.46 (talk) 00:30, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

How about simply using the wikimedia Commons:George W. Bush? All images there are of course available under a 'free-license' although depending on the art project, obeying the GFDL in particular could be difficult/annoying I guess Nil Einne (talk) 12:58, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

Uk Sewers

If I were to venture down into the UK sewer system from a manhole on the street, what dangers should I expect to face and what precautionary measures should I take beforehand? How easy would it be to accurately navigate through the sewer system to reach a set destination, for example from my house to my place of work? Are there any people down there that may challenge my presence? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.75.188.252 (talk) 16:50, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm not an expert on this, but first, you probably know that there isn't a single UK sewer system but separate systems for each urban area. Now, as to what you are likely to encounter, of course there will be a stench. You will also be exposed to bacteria and other pathogens. Assuming that you could walk through the sewers, which I doubt, you would want a watertight covering at least up to your waist. The main collector sewers in major cities are likely to be large enough that you could walk through them, though you might have to crouch over, and walking bent over would eventually become painful. However, the feeder sewers, such as the one running from your house to the main collector sewer, are unlikely to be large enough for you to pass through. Or else, at best, you would have to crawl and slither through the sewer with most of your body immersed in the sewage, requiring watertight coverage of your entire body and probably oxygen tanks (if you could squeeze them into the sewer as well), because you do not want to risk inhaling or ingesting infectious sewage. As to whether parts of the sewer system are patrolled, I don't know but I doubt it. Marco polo (talk) 17:22, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Many places have separate rain sewers and sanitary sewers (where the toilets flush, which are completely sealed to prevent toxic and explosive gases from escaping). The rain sewers can have some gross things in them, too, like live or dead rats, but are open to the air. I'd assume you're asking about rain sewers. Navigation underground is a problem, as there are no landmarks to go off and I wouldn't expect any readable signs. StuRat (talk) 18:01, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Sewers are sometimes used by people to escape, such as smugglers, resistance fighters and those on the run. The Brighton sewers look big enough to walk though upright, as does the Cloaca Maxima, but I think you'd have trouble getting into them, and even more trouble getting out. And if you are down there and it starts to rain or there is a flash flood, you could easily drown if the water level rises too quickly and you cannot escape. Traveling through sewers is also a common plot device, but the unsanitary conditions or strong smell of the sewage is seldom mentioned, for example Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles or the vampire Angle who used sewers to travel during the day to avoid sunlight. JessicaN10248 18:52, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

The images of the Brighton sewers show the main collector sewers. These were built in Victorian times, when maintenance people were expected to walk through the main sewers. I'm not sure that they are still built as large, and I'm fairly sure that the collector sewers running beneath side streets are not as large. Marco polo (talk) 19:37, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

I'd get a Leptospirosis innoculation before I even thought about going down and also take along a gas detector to make sure I wasn't walking into any potentially dangerous low oxygen areas (caused by build-ups of methane or other gases). Nanonic (talk) 22:54, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Very few sewers, whether sanitary,stormwater or combined are large enough to walk or crawl through. The manhole chambers you see in the street are large enough to enter but just to facilitate access to the pipes for water blasting, cameras etc - the pipes are much smaller. Apart from the infectious nature of whats in there, oxygen depletion and asphixiating gases can be a major problem and a quick google of sewer worker deaths or similar will show you it still happens. In terms of navigation, sewers virtually never follow the street layout, they need to use topography and gravity ( its difficult to push faecal matter up hill) so they often run with the land contours, always heading down hill. Mhicaoidh (talk) 02:02, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

However, tourists can visit the Paris sewers. An unforgettable day out!--Shantavira|^{feed me} 06:32, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

...and the Brighton sewers as well - see here.--217.171.129.71 (talk) 07:08, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

Driving times in the UK

As regulars may know, I am planning a holiday that involves driving around the UK in a rental car. I have been planning an itinerary using driving times from Google Maps. Recently I posted here and in some other places that I was planning to drive from London (near Paddington) to Stonehenge, and that I expected the drive to take 1 hour and 45 minutes. Actually, according to Google Maps, it is 1 hour and 40 minutes. Using the Directions function of Multimap.com, an online map provider based in the UK, I get the same result. However, I got responses from several people who live near the route from Paddington to Stonehenge that this route could not possibly be driven in only 1 hour and 45 minutes, even if there is no traffic congestion. One person said that I should count on 2 hours and 15 minutes without traffic, and probably 2 hours and 30 minutes to be safe. So, I am left wondering, are the driving times provided by Google Maps and other online map providers completely unrealistic for the UK? If so, can I get realistic times by adding a certain percentage, say 50%? Thank you! Marco polo (talk) 17:39, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

I wouldn't be surprised if they're unrealistically optimistic. In Edinburgh, such routers often use the city bypass as the 'fastest route' when in fact it's often the slowest possible route (since, at peak time, it's essentially a car park). I don't know the specific route here, though. Angus Lepper^{(T, C, D)} 17:44, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

The driving times also seem unrealistic for Google maps and MapQuest in the US. I'm guessing they just assume everyone travels the speed limit on each road during the entire trip. Unfortunately, this means that just adding a percentage is not going to make it much more accurate. This is because city streets, with constant stop-and-go due to stop signs, traffic lights, construction, and traffic back-ups can make those much slower than this calculation method, while a nice clear highway with everyone driving 20 MPH over the limit can move much faster than this calculation. You also need to consider the need for stops during long trips; for fuel, food, and bathroom breaks. Those estimates seem so poor that I find it's better to just estimate them myself. StuRat (talk) 17:54, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Really? Google Maps times work for me in the US, especially for longer (intercity) trips. This may be because I tend to travel 14 mph above the speed limit when traffic permits, which more or less makes up for stretches where traffic puts me below the speed limit. Can anyone else in the UK comment on whether Google Maps consistently underestimates UK drive times? Also, what is the practice in the UK? In most of the US, most drivers exceed the speed limit on freeways/motorways. I have found that police generally don't object to speeds 15–20% above the limit. (Higher than that, though, and you will probably be pulled over and fined.) Are speed limits more strictly enforced in the UK? Marco polo (talk) 19:34, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

AA times tend to be a little more conservative (1 hr 52 for Paddington/Stonehenge). Having just tried a few routes I know well, it seems fairly accurate. I think the main problem is cities (as mentioned for London and Edinburgh); traffic in cities is less predictable, and the mapping makes no allowances for the differing times of the day, or significant congestion, so you'll need to add on a substantial amount of time if you're heading past/through any. For the open road, they seem quite reasonable averages (of the ones I tried, I've generally been slightly quicker rather than slower than the quoted times). Gwinva (talk) 21:09, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

I too think the problem is that most mapping software takes no account of time of day or traffic conditions. If you are lucky, it might allocate different speeds based on the type of road (ie. faster on motorways). I read recently that the average traffic speeds in London is now under 10mph - lower than it was in the days of "horseless carriages".

If you left Paddington at 3am, you could reach Stonehenge 85 miles away in an hour and 45 mins. But if you left at 8am, it could take you over an hour to get on to the M25 motorway less than 20 miles into your journey. The morning run down the M3 might be OK, and by the time you will be turning onto the A303 (fast dual-carriageway for long stretches) the traffic could be freely flowing. I would tend to agree with what you've heard elsewhere - hope for 2 hours, plan for 2 and a half hours. However, you are on holiday and I certainly wouldn't schedule your trips too tightly.

As for driving speeds, many drivers exceed the limit where they think they can get away with it. Cars usually go 75-85 mph on motorways but generally stick to the 30 or 40 mph speed limit in towns. The major factor in this, is the presence of speed cameras along many urban roads. Fortunately, after complaints they were solely for raising money, they are now all painted reflective yellow to provide an effective deterrent. Strangely enough, there are no speed cameras on motorways except on the M25 (hidden in gantries over the road) and other some places were the speed limit is reduced below the usual 70mph. If you are unlucky, you could be caught in a temporary speed trap and flagged down by the police at the side of the road. And if you are really unlucky, the police will chase you with blue lights and everything. In my experience, it is much less likely to happen than in the US - then again maybe it's just my lead foot that got me in stopped several times whilst on holiday ;-)

Astronaut (talk) 03:00, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

Tanning Beds

If you lay in a tanning bed is it still ok to lay out in the sun? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.255.205.153 (talk) 19:20, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

What do you mean by "ok"? There is no law against it, but you will get a double does of ultraviolet radiation, which causes DNA mutations. The longer you do either for the more chance you have of developing problems. See Tanning bed#Risks and Sunlight#Effects on health. JessicaN10248 19:30, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Template usage tracking

I made a template some time ago (User:The Vandal Warrior/Userboxes/GTA IV fan). Is there anyway I can see how many users are using this template on their user page? bsrboy (talk) 19:50, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Just click the "What links here" link in the toolbox section on the right side of the page. See this. The ones that say "transclusion" after them are the ones that display the userbox on the page. JessicaN10248 19:52, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks! bsrboy (talk) 19:58, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Masters Degree in Sweden or Finland or any Nordic Countries.

Hello,

I am in the 3rd year(out of 4 years) of my Bachelor's Degree in Computer Science and Engineering. I have heard from a friend of mine that the Master's programmes in Sweden are completely subsidised by the State (i.e. They are free, no tuition fees). When I checked this on our own Wikipedia article, I found it to be true. However, it was stated that the Government is planning to discontinue this, and impose a tuition fee on all the foreign students(Not on students in the EU). I would like to know, if possible, when this might be imposed and if the subsidization is stopped, how much would the actual fee would be? (I would like to know the maximum fee that any University might have). I'll finish my Bachelor's in 2010 and will be applying the same year.

I also checked on the Education system of Finland, and it is subject to the same conditions as above(No tuition fees for now, and might be introduced in the future). And I would like the know the maximum fees that could be imposed in an Uni in Finland.

Is there a list of the countries that are providing Master's courses in this fashion?

How good exactly are these Universities in comparision to the Universities in other countries, such as USA, or Canada and so.

And I have one final question. I checked on a few of the universities in Sweden and Finland. In the requirements section, they mentioned a proficiency in English as a requirement and a minimum score in the [TOEFl] exam. While this is alright, I was surprised not to see any mention of the [GRE] exam. Does it mean that I dont need to write this exam? Or is it like a default requirement for all the Universities?

And also how strict is the intake process? Will my grade at the end of my bachelor's matter a lot? Or is it OK if I finish my degree with an average grade.

As you can see I am in quite a bit of confusion at the moment. I'd really appreciate it if you guys help me out here. :-)

Thanks a lot,

Jayant,19 Years, India • contribs 21:51, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

I can't give you an unbiased assessment of the quality, so I'll skip that part of your question. Regarding the fees, the problem for you as a prospective student is that these things can change quite rapidly. While there are no fees at the moment, and no decision made to introduce them at any specific date, it may change. If the swedish parliament decides to introduce fees for non-EU students, it would not be unlikely to be done at six months notice, or so. Thus it won't be possible to say with any certainty what the situation will be like for semester 2, 2010 until about a year and a half from now. My knowledge about entry req's concerns only domestic students, so somebody with experience of applying to a swedish uni from abroad might be able to help you better with that. /Kriko (talk) 08:52, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

Oh, this might also be of interest: As far as I recall from what was debated when this was last discussed, if fees are introduced, they will only be partial, i.e. not pay for the full costs. They'd be only a fraction (quarter? fifth?, even less) of what you'd expect from e.g. a good U.S. university /Kriko (talk) 09:11, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

One thing to keep in mind is that, for Finnish universities at least, the whole concept of a B.Sc. degree is relatively new, being introduced only in the past few years as part of the Bologna process. (You may want to specifically read Bologna process#Finland as well as the Education in Finland article.) For example, I'm just about to finish my Master's degree at the University of Helsinki despite not having a Bachelor's degree; when I started my studies, no such degree existed here yet. (Yeah, I know, it's taken me a while — I was working most of the time.) Even where the curriculum now includes a separate Bachelor's degree, many places still consider it just an intermediate step towards a full Master's degree. In particular, this is likely to mean that the entrance procedures for students who already have a Bachelor's degree may be much less formal or standardized: even though, from your viewpoint, you've finished one degree and are starting another, from the university's viewpoint you're essentially jumping in half-way through what is still, in many ways, a direct-to-M.Sc. programme.

As for the GRE, I doubt most nordic universities require it: the nordic countries tend to have their own standardized examination systems. The reason for requiring TOEFL is simply to ensure that the student actually understands the language they'll be mostly studying in. It's possible that some internationally recognized exams might count in your favor, even if they're not required, but this is likely to depend not only on the specific university but on the specific program you're applying for. It won't hurt to ask, though. The admissions procedure for international Master's programmes at the University of Helsinki says they require a degree certificate, a transcript of studies (including information on the grading system used), a language test score (they don't seem to specifically require TOEFL) and a written letter explaining your motivation for studying at that particular university and for choosing the specific program you're applying for; the letter is apparently not just a formality, but may constitute a significant part of the evaluation criteria. It also notes that you may be required to take an entrance exam. I didn't look at other universities, but from what I've heard in general, that all sounds fairly typical.

Regarding quality, about the closest thing there is to an objective assessment would be various ranking lists, where it seems the nordic universities generally tend to score fairly well. Googling for nordic university ranking led me to this page, which gives the ranks of various nordic universities on two of them. Of course, it's up to you how much value you put on such lists. —Ilmari Karonen (talk) 10:43, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

Oh, and apparently the range of tuition fees for foreign students from outside the EU proposed in 2005 by the Finnish Ministry of Education was 3,500–12,000 euros per year. (ref: [10], in Finnish) Any actual implementation of such fees would require passing a new law: the current Finnish law on universities (yliopistolaki 8 §) states that "education leading to a university degree is free of charge to the student". —Ilmari Karonen (talk) 11:08, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the replies. So, if I had to pay a fee, it would be far less than what I'd be paying in USA or some other uni in the West? And how much would I have to spend for my stay in Sweden? I understand that my general expenses might cost a lot of money in Sweden or Finland. And I have also read in the FAQ section of some Swedish uni that they would not provide any accomodation on campus and I'd have to find my own place to live. How much would that cost(Approximately, of course)? Are there any cheaper alternatives like staying as a Paying Guest or something? If a University did provide hostel accomodation, how would that compare to finding a place to live off campus (in terms of cost)?

It looks like most of the Nordic Universities do rank pretty well. I am considering applying to some of these Universities. I just need to find about 5 of the universities which might just take me in.

So, Ilmari Karonen, me having a bachelor's degree would make it easier for my acceptance? Or is it the other way round?

Thanks a lot again. Jayant,19 Years, India • contribs 13:43, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

June 21

bonded

When a contractor who is going to do home improvements in your home is bonded. What does bonded mean —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.239.86.55 (talk) 00:42, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

"Bonded" likely means they have a performance bond, which guarantees that the contractor will meet his or her contractual obligations in a satisfactory manner. Failure will result in the payment of compensation by the bonding company. A bonded contractor should provide greater confidence that the job will be done properly, but they will also typically cost more than an unbonded contractor. See also Surety bond, for more general information on this type of 3-party contract. Rockpocket 03:00, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

DKR football stadium

Thank you for answering my previous questions. Sorry, but I have another one.

I looked on the article regarding the University of Texas's Darryl K. Royal Memorial football stadium, and it says that it has a current capacity of around 85,000. It also said that renovations were being undergone and the capacity would move up to 90,000. Does anyone know the exact capacity of the stadium once the renovations are complete? Will we ever find that out? Also, do you think Texas will break its attendance record on 89,418 this year?76.194.67.13 (talk) 00:51, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

Do smoke detectors get triggered by cigarrette somke?

Does a modern smoke detector goes off with just cigarrette smoke? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 196.40.65.166 (talk) 01:04, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

I think it depends on the proximity of the cigarette to the smoke detector. If the cigarette is quite close, the smoke detector can pick up the smoke being emitted from the cigarette and possibly trigger itself. On the other hand, if it is far from the nearest smoke detector, it is possibly unlikely that the smoke detector will pick it up. --Sky Harbor ^(talk) 01:18, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

If you ever take an airline flight, you've heard an announcement warning smokers that smoking is illegal even in the washrooms, and there are smoke detectors in there which it is also illegal to tamper with. Here's someone who found out the hard way that they will indeed detect cigarette smoke. But in a large room, as Sky says, it might well be a different matter. --Anonymous, 02:46 UTC, June 21, 2008.

Who's the oldest Daughter in all time?

I mean, the highest age's woman that her mother was Still alive. Breckinridge (talk) 07:23, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

If you really mean the oldest living daughter with a living mother then I have no idea. If you mean the living daughter with oldest living mother then Sarah Knauss's daughter is the oldest documented case as her daughter as still alive at the time of her death and she is the third oldest ever according to Oldest people Nil Einne (talk) 13:28, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

The Sky

I've lived in NZ my entire life but recently moved to Vermont (6 months ago) and I've noticed something odd about the sky - to me, it seems that the skies are a paler blue in New Zealand than they are in VT/NH. I know there's probably no scientific reason for this, but it just seems like that for me. Maybe its some nostalgic/homesick thing, or maybe its just that I'm noticing the sky more now that I live in a far more hilly area. Something about the clouds, too - there seem to be many more nimbus here, as opposed to cirrus (which seemed to be prevalent in NZ). 66.220.246.235 (talk)Slayton —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.220.246.235 (talk) 07:37, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

Beware of people offering to answer your question for money. I am a fellow New Zealander however and can do you a good deal on some magic beans that came into my possession. Its a funny story...Mhicaoidh (talk) 11:09, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

legal rights

does a woman, who does not speak English, have a LEGAL right to a FEMALE interpreter when recieving NHS treatment. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.10.210.166 (talk) 08:41, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

This is not legal advice but I doubt that you have the right to a female interpreter although you may have the right an interpreter. Anonymous101 (talk) 11:13, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

This is not legal advice (I don't live in the UK and I'm not a lawyer) my guess is if you have a good reason for wanting a female interpreter, you would probably be granted one and in the unlikely event one is refused a review or court case would like find your rights were violated. One example would be if you are seeking help for rape. Bear in mind that in many cases including I suspect this case this may not be spelt out in law so it's possible no one can no for sure until this is actually tested in court. Nil Einne (talk) 11:58, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

Party problem

If I have a party for my birthday I'm going to lose my friends! Ok I'll explain. I would love have a party for my birthday in a month (it's a milestone age) with heaps of my friends but the small group of friends I hang out with daily (well, a girl and a guy) would be totally against it because for all my other friends to come there would be alcohol involved and my main friend considers herself "straight-edge". I don't want to leave out my best friends but they wouldn't come if I invited them to party with alcohol. I originally wanted to go play lasertag and then have pizza for my party but my friends aren't into that idea either (my friend says she doesn't like the arcade because "people look at you" and she doesnt eat pizza because she's a vegan too). I could shout my non-drinking friends to lunch and then have the rest of my friends at the party at night but I know my non-drinking friends would just whinge at me over who I'm inviting and why parties are wrong and blah blah blah all week and make me miserable... it's my birthday and I want a party but what am I supposed to do in this situation to make everybody happy? --124.254.77.148 (talk) 09:38, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

The joys of having a party... Just do what you would do if it's the last day of your life. Would you binge drink your way out or spend quality time with the people you love? --antilived^{T | C | G} 10:56, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

They dont sound like friends, they sound like useful parts of your social networking. Unfortunately we cant assume you will die (see above ) after your party thus taking the easy way out. I would do what you want to do for your birthday. The straight couple know they are out of step with a lot of other people, for better or worse, without making value judgements, you need to decide what your birthday is. is it about you having fun,mirth with true friends or an opportunity to ingratiate yourself with these two a bit more. Mhicaoidh (talk) 11:46, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

Hmm. It's your birthday and you're stressing about how to make everybody else happy. Funny, I could have sworn it was supposed to be the other way around. -- JackofOz (talk) 12:47, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

Have you tried talking to her (the vegan)? Did you tell her that having a huge drunken party to celebrate your milestone birthday (with ALL your friends) is important to you? If she still doesn't understand after that, she's probably not worth all the trouble you're willing to go to, to accomodate her (on YOUR birthday). Zain Ebrahim (talk) 12:58, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

When you say "for all my other friends to come there would be alcohol involved" do you mean 1) When all my other friends come, there would likely be alcohol involved OR 2) If I want my other friends to come, I need to include alcohol as part of the party? If you mean 2, then I would have to say I question whether all your other friends are worth the trouble either... Nil Einne (talk) 13:17, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

dennis m. arroyo

what is the biography of dennis m. arroyo who wrote smart studying? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.97.174.236 (talk) 11:22, 21 June 2008 (UTC)