| article2 = <!-- Do not wikilink - leave blank if nominating only one article -->
| blurb = The [[Catholic Church]] enters the [[sede vacante]] period following '''[[Resignation of Pope Benedict XVI|the abdication]]''' of [[Pope Benedict XVI]]
| recent deaths = <!-- (yes/no); instead of specifying a blurb the nomination can be for the "Recent deaths" line -->
| altblurb = <!-- An alternative blurb. Leave blank if not needed -->
| sources =
| updated =
| updated2 = <!-- (yes/no); only if there's a second article and article2 is filled in! Leave blank if unsure -->
| nominator = Mocctur <!-- Do NOT change this -->
| updater = <!-- Should be filled with the username of the person who has contributed the most to updates. -->
| updater2 = <!-- if more than one updater -->
| updater3 = <!-- if more than two updaters -->
| ITNR = no <!-- 'No' by default. Only put in 'yes' if the event is listed at Wikipedia:In the news/Recurring events. -->
| note =
| nom cmt = An event unparalleled in the last 600 years. While Benedict's announced intention to resign was posted some weeks ago, the throne of St. Peter becoming empty ([[sede vacante]]) is a world historic event in its own right. This proposed item is about the situation after the resignation. Note: Not to be posted before 20:00 [[Central European Time]]
| sign = [[User:Mocctur|Mocctur]] ([[User talk:Mocctur|talk]]) 17:49, 28 February 2013 (UTC) <!-- Do NOT change this -->
}}
*'''Do not post''' any further news about the resignation of the papacy, until a new Pope has been chosen as a successor.--[[User:WaltCip|WaltCip]] ([[User talk:WaltCip|talk]]) 17:54, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
This candidates page is integrated with the daily pages of Portal:Current events. A light green header appears under each daily section – it includes transcluded Portal:Current events items for that day. You can discuss ITN candidates under the header.
Blurbs are one-sentence summaries of the news story.
Altblurbs, labelled alt1, alt2, etc., are alternative suggestions to cover the same story.
A target article, bolded in text, is the focus of the story. Each blurb must have at least one such article, but you may also link non-target articles.
Articles in the Ongoing line describe events getting continuous coverage.
The Recent deaths (RD) line includes any living thing whose death was recently announced. Consensus may decide to create a blurb for a recent death.
All articles linked in the ITN template must pass our standards of review. They should be up-to-date, demonstrate relevance via good sourcing and have at least an acceptable quality.
Nomination steps
Make sure the item you want to nominate has an article that meets our minimum requirements and contains reliable coverage of a current event you want to create a blurb about. We will not post about events described in an article that fails our quality standards.
Find the correct section below for the date of the event (not the date nominated). Do not add sections for new dates manually – a bot does that for us each day at midnight (UTC).
Create a level 4 header with the article name (==== Your article here ====). Add (RD) or (Ongoing) if appropriate.
Then paste the {{ITN candidate}} template with its parameters and fill them in. The news source should be reliable, support your nomination and be in the article. Write your blurb in simple present tense. Below the template, briefly explain why we should post that event. After that, save your edit. Your nomination is ready!
You may add {{ITN note}} to the target article's talk page to let editors know about your nomination.
The better your article's quality, the better it covers the event and the wider its perceived significance (see WP:ITNSIGNIF for details), the better your chances of getting the blurb posted.
When the article is ready, updated and there is consensus to post, you can mark the item as (Ready). Remove that wording if you feel the article fails any of these necessary criteria.
Admins should always separately verify whether these criteria are met before posting blurbs marked (Ready). For more guidance, check WP:ITN/A.
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Sometimes, editors ask to retract an already-posted nomination because of a fundamental error or because consensus changed. If you feel the community supports this, remove the item and mark the item as (Pulled).
Voicing an opinion on an item
Format your comment to contain "support" or "oppose", and include a rationale for your choice. In particular, address the notability of the event, the quality of the article, and whether it has been updated.
Pick an older item to review near the bottom of this page, before the eligibility runs out and the item scrolls off the page and gets abandoned in the archive, unused and forgotten.
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Add simple "support!" or "oppose!" votes without including your reasons. Similarly, curt replies such as "who?", "meh", or "duh!" are not helpful. A vote without reasoning means little for us, please elaborate yourself.
Oppose an item just because the event is only relating to a single country, or failing to relate to one. We post a lot of such content, so these comments are generally unproductive.
Accuse other editors of supporting, opposing or nominating due to a personal bias (such as ethnocentrism). We at ITN do not handle conflicts of interest.
Comment on a story without first reading the relevant article(s).
Ammar Harris, a suspect wanted in connection with a shooting and following car crash that killed three people and wounded five others on the Las Vegas Strip, is detained in Los Angeles, California. (BBC)(KLAS-TV)
Nominator's comments: Largest flare up of violence in Bangladesh in some time. Protest is likely to continue for days and have lasting repercussions. --ThaddeusB (talk) 16:52, 28 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Multiple Issues I could support this, but it has multiple major issues. The 22 deaths mentioned in the lead are not referenced in any updated article--the real headline here is Delwar Hossain Sayeedi sentenced to death. That article is very poorly written, often not in grammatical English. I'd attempt to improve the style, but given the rapid competing edits of partisans, I am unsure it would be unwasted effort. The article has a neutrality tag. That tag should probably be removed since there is no discussion or explanation of it at talk. Without the 22 deaths being referenced here or in another article I am loathe to invest the time. μηδείς (talk) 17:24, 28 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Strong support. An event unparalleled in the last 600 years. While Benedict's announced intention to resign was posted some weeks ago, the throne of St. Peter becoming empty (sede vacante) is a world historic event in its own right. This proposed item is about the situation after the resignation. Note: Not to be posted before 20:00 Central European TimeMocctur (talk) 17:55, 28 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's comments: The government is down. This indicates there will be another head of state. We posted the similar situation in 2011 when Pahor's government got a vote of non-confidence. --Tone08:11, 28 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
OpposeNeutral The word "ousted" is loaded. The coalition fell apart his party lost a vote of non-confidence. This is actually pretty common in coalition governments. I don't know enough about the Slovenian system of government to know why this doesn't automatically trigger an election. --IP98 (talk) 12:24, 28 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Well, BBC used that word, something better can probably be formulated. It should be stressed that the PM is the politician with most power in the country so this is a change of head of state (what we always post). There are two options now, either the formateur will form a new government or there will be an election, it's too early to say that at the moment. --Tone12:42, 28 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Search "ousted" here on WP and you get articles on coups and overthrows. This was a pretty routine political procedure. I would prefer something like "leaves office after a vote of non-confidence". We usually post elections, I don't know that we always post the change of a head of state. I'm not blind to the significance here, but it seems more like routine political horse-trading. Opposition: "You're corrupt. Step down!". PM: "Am not. Will not." Opposition: "Fine then, we quit. No confidence!". It's not like he was convicted, it's all allegations of corruption. --IP98 (talk) 13:01, 28 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Changed to Neutral. The CPC is an official body. Even w/o a court, it's about as damning as it gets. Still think it's a pretty weak scandal, and that "ousted" needs to be dropped from the blurb. --IP98 (talk) 13:04, 28 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Article needs updating Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: National hero; named "ambassador for life" for his diplomatic work; and, most notably, known for his internationally influential writings that are said to have sparked multiple protest movements. --ThaddeusB (talk) 18:46, 27 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support when updated I never heard of him before but his bio provides good detail on why he's notable enough to post. We just need that update. – Muboshgu (talk) 19:02, 27 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose the article as written is hagiographic and hardly balanced, the opinion from the left seems to be he's one of ours. The list of organizations he belonged to reads like a parody. He seems to have been semi-notable as a member of the resistance. But I don't see any verifiable accomplishments or respect from those not deeply committed to his political agenda. μηδείς (talk) 21:55, 27 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support. Mainly as a result of reading the above votes. If his notabilty for posting is clear but a lot of people haven't heard him, that makes him ideal for RD, IMO. If the best argument against posting him is (transparently) "I'm not so keen on his style of politics", then I think that seals it. Formerip (talk) 01:07, 28 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I have said no such thing and you know it, I have supported the nominations of plenty of people/things I am personally critical of. The point is, do we have two or three sources that are not his own partisans that speak to his actual accomplishments? That shouldn't be that difficult for someone so prominent. As for his being unheard of a factor in favor of posting, well, you so crazeh. μηδείς (talk) 15:15, 28 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support. Influential personnality during the last few years of his life. I don't like his political views, especially regarding Gaza, but the fact is, that his death is ITN/RD worthy. Hektor (talk) 08:51, 28 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: This is breaking news, international sources will be available shortly. Fox says "Van Cliburn, the internationally celebrated pianist whose triumph at a 1958 Moscow competition helped thaw the Cold War and launched a spectacular career that made him the rare classical musician to enjoy rock star status, has died. He was 78."[2]μηδείς (talk) 17:53, 27 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support seems to fulfill both second and third criteria. A highly decorated pianist with major international impact. Article is sufficiently updated for RD mention. --hydrox (talk) 19:42, 27 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Article:Leonid Khabarov (talk·history·tag) Blurb: Leonid Khabarov, an alleged mastermind behind the new Russian revolution, has been jailed, despite nation-wide protest. (Post) Alternative blurb: In Russia, Leonid Khabarov is convicted for an alleged role in a coup plot. News source(s): Primary sources: RT, RIAN, Interfax, and Russian Legal Information Agency:
Nominator's comments: Events, which are happening right now with a Russian ROTC chief, whose coup d'état charges do not hold water, and the trial itself looks more like a political farce, as it was noted by the majority of political observers in Russia. --93.75.44.49 (talk) 10:50, 27 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. This might potentially be notable, but the point of view needs to be watched carefully so we aren't trying to right a wrong. I also don't see any coverage of this outside of Russia yet, though that's not the only requirement. 331dot (talk) 11:12, 27 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Note. RT and RIAN are state-owned media, so there're no reasons for them to try to "right a wrong." Interfax and RAPSI are surely non-government networks, so they should be watched carefully. --93.75.44.49 (talk) 11:24, 27 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
That blurb is very POV, I've suggested an alternative. Given the context of the nomination, and reading the Leonid_Khabarov#Backlash section, this needs serious attention from neutral editors before it can be considered for front page posting. --LukeSurltc12:38, 27 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
If he has been convicted, it is exceedingly POV to describe it as an alleged role. He has baan convicted of conspiracy to murder and to “create panic among the population.”
While I wouldn't go as far as the nominator, I'd be cautious about considering the verdicts of Russian courts in cases such as these as reliable sources of the actual facts. Its democracy index recently dropped from "hybrid" to "authoritarian", and its pretty apparent the courts are used as weapons for the powerful to attack each other. LukeSurltc19:25, 27 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
OK. I think it would be best to find a wording that extended this ambiguity to whether such a plot ever existed. It's worth noting that the protests regarding this case is what is making it newsworthy. LukeSurltc
Oppose for now. The Khabarov article needs to be cleaned up. I appreciate that not all editors are native English users, but that article really needs a sentence-by-sentence rewrite. The facts and sources all look good, but I don't think the prose is in a shape to be featured on the frontpage.80.220.123.162 (talk) 18:16, 27 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Comment If we do run this, I feel the picture and/or the blurb should mention his former Colonel status for those unfamiliar. Running it with no picture would be better than the one currently used; although, I prefer File:Colonel Khabarov addressing the farewell speech.jpg. In regards to the article, I oppose pending a rewrite. Section headers like "“Massoud? Treat him like my best friend”" don't work. Did we publish the arrest? RyanVesey19:28, 27 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose purely on article quality grounds. This seems worthwhile to post based on notability, but the article is a complete mess as noted above. Too many problems with tone and referencing to list them all here. --Jayron3221:04, 27 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support pending greatly increased quality. I thought I understood what was going on when I read about his arest a ways back. After reading this article I have no idea what's going on from any side's viewpoint. μηδείς (talk) 22:15, 27 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's comments: Seems like a major accomplishment with significant practical application - the inventors site internal medical devices; wearable and very portable computers come to mind. --ThaddeusB (talk) 00:26, 27 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose There is a continuous stream of technological innovation. It's a very high degree of WP:SPECULATION to say anything about the impact of this technology at this stage, when there seems not be even a proof of concept product, just an announcement from an academic research group. Time to market could be anything from months to years to decades to eternity. --hydrox (talk) 01:40, 27 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support per above. This is a rare type of disaster and the death toll is simply not comparable to the bunch of plane and car crashes that we usually post. Moreover, saying it's the deadliest ever induces excessive importance to the nomination.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 10:21, 26 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
It's simple. Can you point out to any other hot balloon crash that recently happened, apart from the numerous car and plane crashes that occur every day? You should take a broader look through the media that the news exhibits decent coverage and the fact it's the largest in history makes it surely notable.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 11:48, 26 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
It's not so simple. Can you point out what impact this will have on the economy, politics, history or future of Egpyt, aviation, or tourism? Pure shock body count. --IP98 (talk) 12:01, 26 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Can you tell me what impact will have the fact that Jimmie Johnson won the Daytiona 500 and Danica Patrick became the first woman to achieve a top-10 finish?--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 12:13, 26 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
IP98, I don't see a problem here. There is a mass-casulty event in the news, with widespread coverage (yes, partly due to the nationalities of the deceased). We have a developing article, which should hopefully soon be ready for the main page. This disaster will be part of the encylopedia in perpetuity, I can't see what we'd gain by not posting it in the In the News section when it is in the news. --LukeSurltc12:11, 26 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
In fact, according to this BBC report, the last time an accident of this nature occurred (resulting in 16 injuries, no deaths), "Balloons were grounded for six months after that crash while safety measures were tightened and pilots were re-trained by Egypt's Civil Aviation Authority." so yes, there was a lasting impact. This crash is considerably worse, so I suspect the fallout will be accordingly serious. The Rambling Man (talk) 12:33, 26 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, that's actually pretty helpful. I knew my oppose was futile, but I wanted to see some other reasoning than corpse count. --IP98 (talk) 12:57, 26 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support. This is a rare and record-setting event. In this case, the actual body count is not as notable as the reason for it. It likely will also affect tourism in Egypt, on top of how the political turmoil there has already. 331dot (talk) 11:49, 26 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support I didn't even think you could fit 20 people into a hot air balloon. It's not every day you hear about hot air balloon crashes of any sort, except some idiot pereodically getting his/hers caught on a telephone pole or deciding to fly it in 20mph+ wind gusts and going on the ride of his life. -- Anc516(Champs!) (Talk ▪ Contribs) 15:31, 26 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Comment is it really true that this is the deadliest balloon crash in history? What about blimps? The fact that it was in Egypt and involved international tourists is consistent with INT requirements. Abductive (reasoning) 16:26, 26 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Blimps are not balloons; blimps generally have powered and controllable movement, and are also not dependent on hot air; balloons have no control over their movement other than altitude. 331dot (talk) 16:52, 26 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
President of CubaRaúl Castro announces he will not seek another term as president when his current one expires in 2018. He also states he will seek to put term limits and age caps for political offices in Cuba, including the presidency. (The New York Times)
Nominator's comments: Massive news in Korea, and amongst Korean communities abroad. Park Geun-hye is the first woman president of Korea. She is also the daughter of a former ruler, which I don't think happens often in that region. (Father -> son succession, yes, but not father -> daughter with some other rulers in between.) --70.179.161.230 (talk) 05:55, 26 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Question? Did we post the election? If not, I would support this one, if we did, I would be neutral, leaning weak support. This seems like an historic event if it hasn't been posted already, and the article is in pretty good shape, which is always a plus for putting something on the main page. Also, the blurb should not pipe-link "Korea" as though the entire Peninsula were one country and she were the actual leader of it. It should read and link to President of South Korea. --Jayron3206:08, 26 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose We generally don't post inaugurations, just the election. I have read that the inauguration is a formality and she automatically took office at midnight. 331dot (talk) 11:51, 26 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's comments: This has been big news here in the UK. Resonates with other stories regarding the church. Current update may or may not be sufficient. --LukeSurltc23:06, 25 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support. I think we would have posted this if he had been arrested. It's unprecedented for the Catholic church, given that he is a cardinal. Formerip (talk) 23:19, 25 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
No comment on whether the story should be posted, but it surely is not unprecedented in the Church's 2000 year history for a Cardinal to resign. --ThaddeusB (talk) 00:08, 26 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose He was already scheduled to retire in less than three weeks. This is primarily about avoiding press distraction during the conlave. Kevin McE (talk) 23:57, 25 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose agree with Kevin McE looks like it is all to do with the conclave, would be open to consider a sticky for Papal conclave, 2013 between the 28th and the appearance of the white smoke (at which time it would be replaced by a full blurb on the new Pope anyway). LGAtalkedits00:20, 26 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. According to a priest guesting on Newsnight last night, the cardinal was actually dismissed by the pope, he made it sound like this was a very rare event. Would have to find more sources for that though. Fgf10 (talk) 17:49, 26 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
No it isn't. It reports that he had intended to resign on his 75th birthday (as is customary) "But Benedict decided to make the resignation effective immediately". Formerip (talk) 19:19, 26 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
But that doesn't mean Benedict asked him to resign in the first place("Murphy-O'Connor said that it was O'Brien's decision to step down and that he had not been forced or asked to do so."; he only changed the date it goes into effect. 331dot (talk) 19:29, 26 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Every bishop is obliged to tender his resignation in time for it to be considered before his 75th birthday. The Pope will communicate that this is accepted (with very rare exceptions if he thinks the guy is irreplaceable) reasonably quickly (by Roman standards), but it does not become effective until that birthday. It had been routinely agreed that he would step down on 17 March, so it would have been a very contrary move to refuse to bring that forward by less than three weeks at the bishop's request. Kevin McE (talk) 20:04, 26 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
He didn't request that it be brought forward. Allegations about his conduct appeared in the media. 23:29, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Serious Comment The career section and "koop report" section needs an orange tag for lack of sources, then needs the orange tag resolved. The legacy section is pretty well sourced. --IP98 (talk) 23:08, 25 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
In the obituaries which will be published there will information on his career. We should be able to use these to help cite the article. --LukeSurltc23:50, 25 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Not seeing the coverage outside of the US at this time, not going to make the mistake of opposing at this time as per Jerry Buss, but unless this does get covered outside the US (more than just wire republishing) then will be an oppose. LGAtalkedits23:58, 25 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Reply This is from the "please do not's above", it's actually kind of rude, which I don't intend to be, but I'm just quoting as written: "Do not complain about an event only relating to a single country, or failing to relate to one. This applies to a high percentage of the content we post and is unproductive." --IP98 (talk) 00:09, 26 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
No it is not, if, as contended this person had an "influence on public health worldwide" (see nomination) then I would expect such an influence to be reflected in worldwide coverage of his death, and an absence of such coverage, points to that not being the case. LGAtalkedits00:25, 26 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Further to that, there is a world of difference (no pun intended) to opposing an item because it relates to only one country as compared to to opposing because an event gets coverage only in one country, this is In The News and IMO for something to be listed, it should be in the news in more than one country. LGAtalkedits00:30, 26 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Updated I am marking this updated--the death section was only two sentences when I checked but the expansions to other areas are of higher value than "his goofy beard will be missed" type comments. μηδείς (talk) 00:43, 26 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Withholding support until cleanup. Clearly worthwhile for the RD ticker based on news coverage, but the article needs to have the orange-level tags cleaned up. --Jayron3205:08, 26 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Not seeing how this meets the criteria, he was not a high officer of state (POTUS, VPOTUS or Sec. of State), lack of coverage outside of the US indicates he was not regarded as top of his field. LGAtalkedits05:50, 26 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
His influence in the field of public health was tremendous, a household name for starting a rational discussion of AIDS in the US, etc. μηδείς (talk) 17:40, 26 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support - Koop was very well-known as a public figure (as the lead says, he was "the only surgeon general to become a household name"). His outspoken/controversial opinions and actions in the 1980s regarding AIDS and other public health concerns had major impact on the way these concerns were addressed in the U.S. -- and doubtless in the rest of the world. He established and gave his name to one of the earliest health-information websites. Frank Zappa wrote a song about him. --Orlady (talk) 14:56, 26 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support (which I didn't bother to say before since I didn't expect any opposition) prominent in public health, very influential in early rational discussion of AIDS prevention (at a time when you got calls for tattoos and forcible quarantine from prominent public figures, or disgusting jokes at best) and began long successful campaign against smoking in the US, greatly raised the stature of his office. μηδείς (talk) 17:36, 26 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Ready I am marking this as ready, all current sections are well documented. The large career section has been commented out, since it is very detailed, but almost entirely lacking in sources. I don't see waiting two days more in the hope someone has the time to fix it when the rest is good to go. μηδείς (talk) 20:41, 26 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support - Significant in his field, and a major newsmaker. I am not in love with the lack of sources in parts of the article, but think we should go for this RD entry now. Jusdafax22:19, 26 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I have been adding references where needed and where asked for, and have hidden the long "career" section--which is so good I fear plagiarism--until it's referenced in full. μηδείς (talk) 22:46, 26 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's comments: It appears that the recent bombings have fallen just short of making the mainpage, so the presents another opportunity to get Syria back on ITN. The first step, albeit a small one, towards ending the conflict seems worthy of mention to me. ThaddeusB (talk) 15:07, 25 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose posting just an offer of talks; not significant unless there are actually talks which result in an agreement or cease-fire. Given the flurry of Syria events recently, it may be worth putting a sticky up again, though. 331dot (talk) 15:12, 25 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Wait If the rebels actually agree to and begin the talks, I would support this as an important turning point. Even if the talks don't bring about a cease fire, just agreeing to meet means both sides are open to some kind of compromise. It would actually be infinately more relevant than a mindless car bombing with no associated attack, no claims of responsibility, and no newsworthiness other than a body count which is found by some people to be horrific. --IP98 (talk) 15:46, 25 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Article updated The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
Article needs a lot of work: orange level headings in several sections, and it needs a prose update on the results. Support, of course, when those issues are fixed. --Jayron3215:04, 25 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Wait Need to wait till the results all the results are in, we don't need to jump any gun on this. A number of sources are reporting this as too close to call. Also lacks a results update section. LGAtalkedits20:02, 25 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Looks like the headline story here is that there's going to be gridlock between the two houses, with center-left in control of the lower house and Il Cavaliere winning the Senate. --hydrox (talk) 23:12, 25 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The "Electoral System" section sort of explains whats going on, but it doesn't really help relate the data in the table to who will form the coalition. As best as I can tell, no one really "wins" an Italian election, but instead the strongest losers form a government. --IP98 (talk) 11:49, 26 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support the article is very thorough and in good shape. It's unfair to expect an article about a particular election to explain all the intricacies of the country's political system (as per some of the comments above).80.220.123.162 (talk) 18:54, 26 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
No, but it should be explain enough for the casual reader to understand the results without first having to become an expert in the Italian political system. --IP98 (talk) 19:02, 26 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I dunno, but as a casual reader looking for a quick read, all I need to know is who won the election, the manner of how they came up with the composition can be saved for an FA push later. Also, is "hung parliament" being used in local media? It looks more like a parliamentary version of a "divided government". It depends if the consent of the Senate is needed on most bills (like the US Senate); if it is, it is "hung", again depending if that term is used in local media, if it doesn't (like it can only delay like the House of Lords, or via a rarely-used constitutional provision like the Aussie Senate), then we should avoid using the term "hung", again depending if the local media uses that to describe the situation. –HTD04:06, 27 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The vote percentages are visible in the infobox, and the very first sentence explicitly names the winners of the election. For people interested in the impact of the outcome, there's links in the Electoral System section detailing how seats are derived from votes and links to the various other Italian political institutions in the lede. Detailed analysis of the political system of Italy is outside the scope of the article, and I think would detract from it. In any case, the article is clearly ready to be posted.80.220.123.162 (talk) 07:02, 27 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
No one really wants to read the intricacies of Italian electoral law, just how they arrived in those numbers. The article does explain how the seats are allocated: lower house = national district vote, upper house = regional vote, Aosta Valley = FPTP, etc. –HTD10:18, 27 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Article has improved considerably over the last few hours (good work). I think we need a quick "reaction/aftermath" section explaining the deadlock in prose and we're good to go. LukeSurltc08:04, 27 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Article updated The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
I've removed the proposed blurb, let's wait and see which movie actually wins. Otherwise, the standard blurb goes like "X wins Y awards, including Best picture, at the 85th Academy Awards". --Tone08:53, 24 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Iv'e reworded it to include X and Y instand of the movie/actor names per above advice. To Kevin McE, The award starts today, doesn't matter if it ends 10 minutes after midnight. (the American Football final nomination was added the day of the final, I did not see anyone remove it becuz it ended after 00:00UTC) the ITNR clearly stats "However, the relevant article(s) will still have to be updated appropriately and proposed on the candidates page before being posted." so thats why posted. About the update, like every other article which is ITNR or regular like elections there is always porposes blurb before the actuall info arive yet. – HonorTheKing (talk)10:17, 24 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
We never post Best Actor. Because, then it would also make sense to post Best Actress and Best Director etc. However, we can possibly combine it with a photo, if it is for the same movie (Best Actor X pictured). --Tone11:29, 24 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Altblurb we can very easily accommodate best actress per the concern above--I am not sure if the Best awards should be capitalized or not. μηδείς (talk) 17:52, 24 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose alt blurbs why not best director while we're at it? No, we can't turn this into a laundry list of awards crammed into the blurb. We've only done best picture in the past, lets stick with that. --IP98 (talk) 20:40, 24 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Probably the altblurb that was actually nominated, rather than one snuck in in the form of a question? Jennifer Lawrence's win and 2nd nom is also a record for someone her age. μηδείς (talk) 05:52, 25 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's comments: The Daytona 500 is not on ITN/R, but actually receives more coverage and notoriety than the Cup winner (which is on ITN/R). It has been posted several years. This year's race was especially well covered with the big crash yesterday and Danica becoming the first woman to win the pole (and finishing the highest ever by a woman). --ThaddeusB (talk) 21:49, 24 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Needs prose update for results section. Also I'm not seeing anything about the crash in the article body. Subsections for the crash and for Danica Patrick, with 5 referenced sentences (ie the ITN minimum update) would make this an easy support for me. --IP98 (talk) 22:09, 24 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support Daytona 500 is obviously one of the most popular races. However i think it should be posted on a yearly basis only depending on notability for that year. This year i really believe it deserves to be posted mainly for 3 reasons. 1) Danica Patrick winning pole 2) The major crash day before the race which injured spectators which is incredibly rare 3) Danica Patrick becoming first woman to get a top 10 finish. I've added alternate blurb to add her achievement as well. The media attention for this race has been massive and it definitely should be posted this year. it does not need to be on ITN/R (also please remember that any oppose based on the race not being in ITN/R is basically invalid as noted many times) -- Ashish-g5500:43, 25 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Thats your opinion. every single news article i read out there says otherwise. If you saw the race then you should know they followed her around in the entire race, much more than anyone else -- Ashish-g5502:08, 25 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I did watch the race and honestly it does not matter if they spend most of their time covering her. In the past, did we ever mention Danica being the first female driver to finish in the top five at the Indianapolis 500. Unless she wins, mentioning this is just insignificant trivia. Truthsort (talk) 02:24, 25 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I dont see how not mentioning her improves anything. clearly she is more in the news than the winner and would be a major reason to post this -- Ashish-g5502:31, 25 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support as a combined blurb covering the race results and the crash. I know very little about the sport and care less than that, but I live in a region of the United States where NASCAR gets more local media attention than Major League Baseball, and I can testify that the Daytona 500 is possibly the biggest race of the year for NASCAR fans. This year's race got more even more attention than usual because of the prominence of a woman driver, and the crash adds to its significance. As noted above, if women's cricket is important enough for ITN, surely this item it, too. --Orlady (talk) 02:12, 25 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support Most important single race every year on the NASCAR schedule, well covered by the sports press, article is updated. --Jayron3202:47, 25 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Posting alt-blurb. The article dedicates a lot of information about Patrick (who also makes the race more notable this year), so posting the altblurb. If there's consensus to use the first blurb, it can be changed. SpencerT♦C02:58, 25 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's comments: Historic agreement - its not often you can get 11 countries to agree to anything - whether or not it proves effective in the long run. --ThaddeusB (talk) 18:30, 24 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose while this is a good thing, we often see the United Nations agree (i.e. over 150 countries) to something which is then summarily ignored (per most recent UN resolutions). Sorry, but not really news. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:47, 24 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support. An agreement to end a long war is notable. We can't assume that it won't succeed or be ignored. Nothing would get posted here if assuming it would be undone in the future was a disqualifier. 331dot (talk) 21:19, 24 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Yep, so what are the "supporters" supporting? I suggest the supporters wait for (a) an article to be updated and (b) the update to be suitable, before they offer their support.... The Rambling Man (talk) 21:56, 24 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I am supporting the notability- unlike the discussion below, this nom is not ITNR so its notability must be agreed to. I presume the article will be updated, and not be posted until it is adequate; if it is posted improperly, or not updated, then it should not be posted(or be removed). Your suggestion is noted. 331dot (talk) 22:07, 24 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I was mentioning that I felt the story was notable (as I judge from non-wikipedia sources), as this is the main point of discussion on most items here. It's pretty well established that determining/working on article readiness and item notability are the two main functions of this page, and that they can be discussed separately. For example, arguments like "I do not think this is a sufficiently important development to post, but the article update is good" and "The article is not ready yet, but the news item is of sufficient importance to post when it is" are both useful contributions to the working of this page. --LukeSurltc22:11, 24 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: article is now updated. In-fighting about how to deal with the agreement among M23 rebels today left 10 dead indicating the agreement is not likely to just be ignored entirely. --ThaddeusB (talk) 18:34, 25 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Wait There is a pretty good update, but until the M23 actually agrees to it, it's one sided. They're meeting in Uganda right now with the Congolese government, so we'll see. Nice job with the update Thaddeus. --IP98 (talk) 23:01, 25 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
To clarify, those talks on unrelated to this agreement. The agreement in question is for the 11 countries to "cooperate" (which mostly means stop poking their noses into Congo's problems) in dealing with the situation. There is nothing in it for M23 to agree to. --ThaddeusB (talk) 00:29, 26 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Article updated The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
Article is now updated and as an ITNR item is thus ready for main page. Naturally, another admin should verify that teh update is sufficient before posting. --ThaddeusB (talk) 19:43, 24 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support obviously pointless since the item is ready, but I wanted to throw in anyway. Nice job ThaddeusB. For what it's worth, I think it's better to not link to the results section directly in the bold link. Cheers. --IP98 (talk) 20:29, 24 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support - Article is ok... there are a few wording quibbles in it that could be repaired, but it's ready for a link from the Front page. Jusdafax00:03, 25 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's comments: We regularly post the winners of the Alpine skiing World Cup. Usually, we do this at the end of the season, combining men and ladies winners but this year, Maze secured the title 9 (out of 37) races before the end of the season, what is an impressive achievement by itself. I suggest posting now because of that. --Tone 14:35, 24 February 2013 (UTC) --Tone14:35, 24 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Even if her lead is insurmountable, isn't she still not formally declared the winner until the end of the season? I'm not sure how it works. 331dot (talk) 16:01, 24 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support now. Lots of reliable sources say she has won although some of them use other words like clinches or seals the title. It's basic arithmetic. 2013 Alpine Skiing World Cup#Overall 2 shows she has 1844 points and number two has 886. FIS Alpine Ski World Cup#World Cup scoring system shows 100 points for a race win. There are 9 races to go. That means number two can get at most 886 + 9×100 = 1786. Winning with so many races to go is notable and should be included in the blurb, and it is in the news now. The official ceremony after the last race will probably get less attention. But since the competition is ongoing and something might theoretically happen (death, doping, the end of the World, ?) let's use other wording. Suggested alternative blurb:
Yes, the sources state that's it. The three theoretical reasons would probably merit another ITN story (especially the third one). The alternative wording is good. And then in March we just post who won the men's cup. --Tone09:00, 25 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I support posting it now as long as the altblurb is used. It looks like the early securing of victory has generated a good amount of international coverage. --ThaddeusB (talk) 16:24, 25 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose- ITN has always waited for things to be official, so until she gets the trophy and is declared the overall winner, she hasn't won yet. As a side note, if she died would she still win? Are there any scenarios where she could not win? Bzweebl (talk • contribs) 04:46, 26 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The election is a slightly different situation; the Electoral College is just a formality and while they technically could choose someone other than the percieved winner of the election, they never have. If we posted this person's victory at the end of the season but before she took possession of the title, that would be OK. But I don't believe we post someone as the winner of the election while the polls are still open, even if the winner is mathematically certain. 331dot (talk) 14:26, 26 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
We often post election winners before all votes have been counted. Vote counting usually starts after the polls close but we actually posted Obama's win [9] before the polls closed in Alaska [10] (we did the same in 2008). Lots of votes in many states were still uncounted, including states Obama needed to win. But enough states were considered safe, even if his lead was sometimes smaller than the number of uncounted votes and therefore not mathematically certain. As mentioned, posting sports winners when the result is mathematically certain is the ITN norm and not a suggested exception here. We are more careful in sports than in elections. We never post a sports winner just because their lead is so large that it appears very unlikely they will be reached. We wait until the win is mathematically certain, and it is for Tina Maze. The theoretical reasons she could be removed from competition are not mathematical, and some of them would still apply after the last race. PrimeHunter (talk) 17:23, 26 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Three people are killed and 14 injured in clashes between civilians and government security forces in Aden and Mukalla, as thousands turn up for a day of planned protests. In a separate attack, a senior Yemeni security chief and two of his bodyguards are injured in a shooting. (Reuters)
Nominator's comments: Been more than a year since I nominated an article here so hopefully I have got everything right! Recent violence in North Darfur has broken a ceasefire negotiated in January. At least 21 people were killed on 21 February and 60 on 23 February. Fighting over a gold mine by the same tribes earlier in January has now been revealed to have killed more than 500 (I didn't nominate that as details were too sketchy to update the article back then, new figures have just been released) but this is the worst since the ceasefire that ended that. Now we have good details on a currently occurring conflict it is a good chance to get the ongoing situation in ITN. Dumelow (talk) 19:44, 25 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Marked as ready in line with support given here. If posted now it would just make the second-last spot on the template. It is a shame the news takes several days to be reported from Darfur (for obvious reasons) - Dumelow (talk) 08:55, 27 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
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Nominator's comments: I do not recall ever hearing of an auto race where spectators were injured, so I assume this is a highly unusual event. Event has a high potential to lead to some sort of safety updates so has long term implications... The Daytona 500 will happen tomorrow, as scheduled, so a combined blurb is a possibility. (Daytona has been covered on ITN some years and skipped some years, so would have a good chance of being posted regardless.) -- ThaddeusB (talk) 03:38, 24 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I only saw three auto races on the first list you linked the last was in the 1960s, so that hardly proves it is common. So, I researched it a bit more. Looks like the last time a spectator will killed in a track autorace was 1999. The last time spectator injuries (7) occurred was 2009 as near as I can find. Therefore, I stand by the rare categorization. --ThaddeusB (talk) 04:21, 24 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
List of accidents and disasters by death toll#Sporting events only shows cases with at least 6 deaths, and there are actually 10 cases under these entries (including dead drivers in the count): 80+, 28, 15, 13, a second 13, a third 13, 12, 11, 8, a second 8 (in 2010 in California [11]). There must be a lot more cases with fewer deaths, not to mention cases where there were only injuries. Restrictions like track autoraces seem of low relevance to ITN. Are non-fatal injuries at a track more significant than deaths outside tracks? And spectator injuries and deaths are common in general at other sports or events, for example in riots, stampedes, fires, collapses. I guess this gets a lot of coverage in USA but internationally I don't see the big deal. PrimeHunter (talk) 13:20, 24 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
There is a difference between tracks, which are short enough to be completely surrounded by car-catching fences, and Le Mans or a rally like Senegal-to-Cairo where people just stand on the side of the road. On the other hand, I have never heard of a riot, stampede, crowd crush, collapse, stands fire, or hooliganism at any sporting event in the US (we have these things called cops in the stadium by the way), which would go up on that alone on US Wikipedia but is apparently common in other countries. Go figure. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 16:26, 24 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
It varies by country. We posted the 2013 Houphouët-Boigny stampede (nomination) with 61 dead and over 200 injured (it was a sports stadium but not a sports event). If you add enough qualifiers (auto race spectators, closed track, USA) then you can make something rare, but a lot of shit happens around the World. PrimeHunter (talk) 17:51, 24 February 2013 (UTC) one guy got shot before a top-league football game in a ghetto city, in the parking lot Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 19:45, 24 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
closed courseI didn't say US or closed track, I said with catch fences. You should see how it would be much easier to have accidents when they just drive from Dakar to Cairo with no safety barriers than when they encircle the course with an inward curving metal fence which I'm almost certain is designed to bend to maximize the chance of car matter not breaking/penetrating it (and minimize driver injuries). Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 19:45, 24 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support combined blurb tomorrow on the winner of the Daytona 500 and the injuries to people in the crowd. The Daytona 500 is a a very big deal in the context of NASCAR, so it should be a perennial strong candidate for ITN. Absent the accident, DRIVE4COPD race isn't particularly inherently important. The accident was a serious one that is worthy of consideration for ITN, and the combination of the race and the accident makes a very strong ITN item, assuming that the articles are developed appropriately. For the record, there have been other incidents of spectator injuries at NASCAR and other motor races, per this AutoWeek article. Also, I found a 2009 news piece about injuries to 9 spectators in a race that year. --Orlady (talk) 04:11, 24 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose any mention of the spectators that were injured, unfortunately it is a relative common, so much so that most Motorsports events admission tickets specifically warn spectators of the risk. As for the race it's self, I have to Reserve Judgement on that as it has not happened, and there is no article update to review and no coverage to speak of. LGAtalkedits06:01, 24 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I'm going to have to disagree with this logic. The tickets have a warning to prevent legal liability, which in no way proves injury is common. All kinds of products carry warnings for events that happened once or even never. --ThaddeusB (talk) 17:10, 24 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose thankfully this event, while visually spectacular, has too few serious casualties to merit ITN. Drivers and spectators being killed is not all that rare, and there were none here. μηδείς (talk) 15:56, 24 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Strongest possible oppose Unless you want to relegate ITN to a complete joke Wikipedia, don't post non-news worthy items that effect a very small amount of people in a minority sport (Which is set up to make crashes a possibility, isn't it?) - no deaths, not even remotely comparable to the Russian meteor incident...--85.210.102.19 (talk) 19:53, 24 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think *anything* that's happened in the last year is "even remotely comparable to the Russian meteor incident". If you want to talk about jokes, using a once in a 10000 year event as the standard for ITN would certainly qualify. --ThaddeusB (talk) 20:22, 24 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Support There is no such thing as "minimum deaths". We posted a bunch of school kids in china being injured by a reckless driver, so I think this is worthy of consideration. The thing is, I can't find any decent update for it. --IP98 (talk) 20:38, 24 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Note: Since there does not appear to be sufficient support to post the accident, I have separately nominated the Daytona 500 itself above to stand or fail on its own merits. --ThaddeusB (talk) 21:53, 24 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
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Oppose while I agree that in terms of Canada's internet internal security it's rare for them to ratchet up the fear machine like this, there has been no plot either uncovered or actually executed, so for now, oppose. --IP98 (talk) 13:19, 23 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. No actual act of terrorism to hang our proverbial hat on; warnings like this are fairly standard. The Ontario plot was seven years ago. 331dot (talk) 13:33, 23 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Comment This item is indeed 11 days old, and out of the news. It is also marked "updated" even though only two sentence have been added. I placed a note on Kotjap's talk page about this yesterday after I noticed he had marked his two prior noms updated when they weren't. I suggest an admin close this, and I have started a discussion of this on the talk page. μηδείς (talk) 18:32, 23 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
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Oppose Same plane has just returned from a several week grounding. 787 has scheduling implications: its removal from service affects several thousand journeys every day, its military analogue has no impact on ordinary life. Kevin McE (talk) 11:09, 23 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. The article says the plane's introduction is "after 2016". The temporary grounding of a plane still in testing/development is a non-story. Thue (talk) 12:17, 23 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. As Thue says, the aircraft is not technically in service yet; and this sort of thing is normal for aircraft still in development. 331dot (talk) 12:55, 23 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per Kevin McE, Thue and 311dot. Interesting though, no question about that. No international issue requirement here. --IP98 (talk) 13:15, 23 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I'm pretty aware that some european countries plan to purchase the Lightning.But the number of them in my opinion is pretty low.Morever, considering the aircraft is still in developmental phase, grounding is not surprising.F-35B and F-35C has been had issues for some time now anyway. TheStrikeΣagle13:26, 23 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
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Three missiles launched by the Syrian army crash into residential areas of Syria's northern city of Aleppo, killing at least 29 civilians and injuring 150 others. (Reuters)(BBC)
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Nominator's comments: Currently leading Google news for countries across the world including U.K., U.S. and Australia. In the U.K. it has been the front-page story for mid-market papers like the Evening Standard for the last four days solidly. Also provoking comment pieces on the state of contemporary South Africa such as this in the New York Times, or this in the Baltimore Sun. A worldwide story. --Jheald (talk) 17:58, 22 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose if his arrest for suspected murder didn't make ITN, I can't really see why we should advertise his bail. Shelve all this and wait until the actual trial concludes, and maybe then we have a story for the main page. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:02, 22 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Perhaps, but there's also a requirement for Wikipedia to be encyclopaedic which sometimes conflicts with reporting news early. Right now we just have to wait until the trial concludes. Which may be a year away. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:59, 22 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose the story will likely be front page news around the world for weeks to come. The verdict will likely get posted, but no other development is ITN worthy (unless something really bizarre happens). --ThaddeusB (talk) 18:11, 22 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose: The final verdict will probably be ITN worthy, suggest wait until then. We can't post every new development in the trial. As a side note, I also think that unless and until he is proven guilty, we should be careful about the risk of putting details of the trial up on the front page and (accidentally) portraying him as a criminal. ChamalT•C02:06, 23 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Neutral I agree that we TOTALLY dropped the ball by not having any blurb about this, despite the fact that the Pistorius article is very high quality, and this has been top headline news since it happened. That being said, screwing this up before doesn't mean this is the way to correct that. We should definitely post this, but now our only next logical opportunity will be the conclusion of the trial. --Jayron3202:19, 23 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose the only element of this case that will have any long term significance will be the verdict and if found guilty the sentence, the granting (or otherwise) of bail is just part of the process of the trial, what next posting every time there is a objection sustained ? There is a long way to go on this one and it is going to be a news editors dream, I am already getting the feeling that this will be to the 2010's what OJ was to the 90's. But we should remember that the wiki project for news is Wikinews and we need to keep this story in perspective. LGAtalkedits02:48, 23 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Comment The fact that he may yet walk is not necessarily a reason to withhold an item that shows the presiding judge doesn't expect he'll run. Nevertheless, it pains me to agree with our neutral voter. μηδείς (talk) 03:03, 23 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose and call for a SNOW close. As the last time this was discussed, when this story broke, nothing should be posted unless he is convicted of a crime in this case. If we aren't going to post his arrest(and shouldn't), we shouldn't post this. Even if we were posting some bizarre aspect of this event, being granted bail doesn't mean anything in relation to the trial, and as such does not qualify. 331dot (talk) 04:23, 23 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
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At least 61 people are killed and more than 200 injured following a car bombing near Syria's Baath Party headquarters in Damascus. Three other bombings kill 22 people and injure 50 others in the suburb of Barzeh, most of them government soldiers. These are the deadliest attacks in the Syrian capital since the outbreak of the civil war. (Reuters)(AP)(BBC)(The Wall Street Journal)
A watchdog group releases a report that details write-downs of $19 billion on more than 168,000 properties by five United States banks. Under terms of a federal and state settlement of foreclosure-processing violations reached one year ago in March, Bank of America lost the most and had $13.5 billion in homeowner debts written off. The other banks are Citigroup Inc, JPMorgan Chase & Co, Wells Fargo & Co, and Ally Financial Inc. (FoxBusiness)[permanent dead link]
Retired police sergeantDrew Peterson, whose fourth wife, Stacy Peterson, disappeared in 2007, is sentenced by the US state of Illinois to 38 years incarceration for the 2004 murder of his third wife, Kathleen Savio. (AP)
Article needs updating The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
Oppose Had this been posted and updated when it happened, one could agree there was established consensus meriting ITNR listing. Given it wasn't, it doesn't. μηδείς (talk) 18:33, 24 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
In case you didn't read the discussion on decommissioning ITNR, there is strong support among the oppose votes to "reform" the list and remove cruft like this if it isn't actually affirmed by a broad majority. Yelling "But ITN/R" does nothing to show a consensus for notability--or maybe we can link to the discussion that established that credibility? A link to that discussion, anybody? μηδείς (talk) 19:37, 24 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Are you purposefully being false? I asked for a link to the discussion which established this item as part of ITN/R in the first place. That's not what you gave. And, as mentioned, many of the "opposes" you counted, but did not perhaps read, favor reforming ITNR and removing items like this. μηδείς (talk) 20:33, 24 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, I misunderstood. I thought you were asking for a link to the ongoing discussion, not to the discussion where this election was added to the list. here is the link where elections were added. All the way back in 2008. Took a few seconds of entering a search term into the archive search box to find. No fraud here. Just 5 year old consensus. Cheers. --IP98 (talk) 20:48, 24 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Who has called for removing national elections?(Do you mean just of small countries?) And reform of the list should take place in the context of reforming the entire list, not piece by piece on this page. 331dot (talk) 20:39, 24 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Exactly that. I support the notability of the item, but do not believe that the update is adequate for main page. I think 311dot said it better below. --IP98 (talk) 21:01, 24 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Not at all. You support the principle of ITN/R, i.e. it's on ITN/R and needs updating. Which is what you've "supported". Of course, if ITN/R is followed, your terms of support are inherent. There's no point in "voting" that way at all. It's pointless, a waste of your time, a waste of our time. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:10, 24 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Huh? No... I was just pointing out a discussion last year when an ITN/R nom was rejected on notability grounds. In this case, people disagreed that San Marino was "important enough" as a country for posting. The ITN/R haters can be very vocal as well. I don't think you were even part of that thread, I stopped reading it when it got silly. I'm just pointing it out anyway, not trying to start an argument. --IP98 (talk) 21:37, 24 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I had to search the article text for "abortion". There you are. Yeah, I don't care either way. I guess you already knew about that discussion then. --IP98 (talk) 21:40, 24 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I was simply pointing out a nom where an ITN/R item was opposed on notability grounds. That's all. I wasn't trying to single you out in it in any way. --IP98 (talk) 22:00, 24 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support pending update. National elections are ITNR and since we still have ITNR it is still presumed notable. If anyone feels that national elections are not sufficiently notable for whatever reason(and to whatever degree), then propose the removal of national elections from ITNR, either now or during what I expect to be an upcoming discussion to reevaluate the current list. It should, however, not be posted until the article is sufficiently updated. 331dot (talk) 20:37, 24 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Just that, it's not ready for main page, it lacks quality or the required updates or has maintenance tags or so on and so on so oppose. Obviously. What a curious question. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:55, 24 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
My point was that we were essentially saying the same thing from opposite ends(support once ready vs. oppose it's not ready), at least from where I'm sitting. 331dot (talk) 20:57, 24 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
No. Notability is inherent, not the update. If there isn't one, or it's of poor quality, an event should not be posted. For someone who feels it is a waste of time, you are spending a lot of time on this. No one is compelling you to be involved. 331dot (talk) 21:13, 24 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
No, claiming ITN/R and "waiting for an update" is a waste of time. You need to support once the update is done. A "support pending update" due to ITN/R is a given within the current parameters of going blindly with ITN/R. Obviously. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:18, 24 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I will support things how and when I please, thanks, just as you can. If you feel it is a waste of time, then ignore me. I prefer to state my support now; if the update is poor or nonexistent I would be happy to reevaluate my opinion. 331dot (talk) 21:21, 24 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The sooner the "support per ITN/R pending update" brigade give up, the better. The current point of ITN/R is that the article is inherently supported pending an update. It doesn't need a bunch of ITN fanboys to say "support per ITN/R pending update". Seriously. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:23, 24 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
And when you are the sole arbiter of what is a valid comment on this page, I'll keep that in mind- namecalling nonwithstanding. 331dot (talk) 21:26, 24 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, when did I say that? I asked what the point of your vote was, when it's clearly covered by the current ITN/R guidelines, there's no need for you to "vote" at all. What a waste of time! The Rambling Man (talk) 21:32, 24 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I already explained my vote by saying that I was saying the same thing you were, just in a different way. If you don't see that, or disagree that was what I did, there's not much I can do about it. I'm done now. 331dot (talk) 21:35, 24 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's comments: All over the news, major event. Bombing is close to Ba'ath party headquarters, no one has claimed responsibility as yet, but this is a lead headline on many news websites, and a significant development in the war. --Jayron3218:29, 21 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
This sort of thing is, unfortunately, somewhat routine in Syria at the moment. However, in the absence of a sticky, it would be remiss of us not to post stories from the conflict occasionally. Thus I support posting this item now. Also the article seems already fit-to-post. --LukeSurltc19:18, 21 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
An addendum, I would (weakly) support re-instating the sticky. Perhaps a link to Ongoing conflicts as a permanent main page feature might work; however that article would probably need a bit of a shake-up. LukeSurltc19:18, 21 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose This is a war zone, these types of bombings have body count but have zero impact on the course of the conflict. --IP98 (talk) 22:08, 21 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support (either sticky or blurb) This is a war; these types of bombings have body count and determine the course of the conflict. μηδείς (talk) 00:18, 22 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Medeis. This was a car bombing, not a military action. There was a car bombing a few days ago in Pakistan, and again a month ago. Last week in Iraq. How will this car bombing directly impact the course of the war? --IP98 (talk) 00:43, 22 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support as notable because of targeting of civilians and death count. Also support suggestion of reinstating the sticky as the conflict is still very active and quite possibly at a critical phase. Looking at the ITN discussion linked to above, the sticky was removed less than two hours after this was proposed, when only three people has posted. Subsequently to the removal there were three opposes. So I think the removal was rather unsatisfactory, as the unduly short time period meant that the apparent consensus was not a real one. Neljack (talk) 01:35, 22 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Comment this will probably go up, but it could use a bit more of an update. Consider February_2013_Quetta_bombing Bombing and Perpetrator sections for examples. Things like approximate size of bomb, description of vehicle, likely perpetrators, etc. Was there gunfire or some other insurgent behavior immediately after the blast? The way I see it, this is one paragraph in the middle of a massive article, where the Quetta bombing had to stand on it's own. Anyway... --IP98 (talk) 01:57, 22 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support: As far as I'm aware this is the first car bomb in the war, in which case this would be a major event. If the resistance did it, it means they have openly adopted terrorist tactics. If the government forces did it, it means they have sunk to a new low from launching conventional military assaults against civilians. If it's not both, then somebody else entering the war by creating such a large incident (rather than covertly supporting either side) is terrible news in itself. ChamalT•C03:04, 22 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Um there was December 2011 Damascus bombings (which occured while Arab league observers were there), February 2012 Aleppo bombings, March 2012 Damascus bombings, April 2012 Idlib bombings, 10 May 2012 Damascus bombings, 2012 Deir ez-Zor bombing. And that's just those mentioned as car bombings in List of bombings during the Syrian civil war. These have perhaps slowed down recently (or may be they're just getting less attention) but at least historically the typical response has always been the rebels accused the government of being behind the attack, perhaps as a false flag attack while the government says it proves the rebels are terrorists. I don't really get why a car bombing is particularly unique anyway. Suicide attacks regardless of whether cars were involved would seem to be of a similar character, it would depend more on the target, the area affected and the number of people killed. Even non suicide bombings (bombings involving planted bombs rather then more convential military attacks) wouldn't seem that different again depending on the target, area affected and number of people killed. P.S. To be clear, this isn't intended as a comment for or against this item appearing on ITN. Simply on the idea that there's something special about this because it's a car bomb. Nil Einne (talk) 06:26, 22 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, my bad. In that case, I'm moving to 'weak support. I'm not saying that car bombs are unique; the point I'm trying to make is that it's an unconventional type of attack targeting civilians (and often used by "terrorists") whether it's a suicide attack or not, and it would be highly unusual for either side - a government or a resistance movement recognized by many countries - to do something like that. ChamalT•C07:45, 22 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support- The event is notable. At the same time, Syrian civil war is no longer sticky. The event, may not result is a war, but itself is worthy to be in ITN. Death toll is high.Regards, theTigerKing19:08, 22 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I support this in principle as the fact that the authoritative body on the French language would admit a British writer is significant; though I would submit that the article on the Académie française also be listed aside from Mr. Edwards; his article could be lengthened as well. 331dot (talk) 19:06, 21 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Weak support. I'd like to get fully behind this just because it's random and everything ITN should be but isn't. However, the main selling point - an étranger being chosen - is weaker because, as can be seen from the article, he has dual nationality and because Julien Green was previously appointed. Edwards' article would also need a lot of development before posting. Formerip (talk) 19:41, 21 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
We often do DYK a disservice by portraying it as a refuge for articles that are sort-of-vaguely-interesting-but-not-important-enough-for-ITN. The article is only about a third the minimum length it would need to be for that feature. Kevin McE (talk) 20:08, 21 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, this is in absolutely no way qualified for ITN, there is no notability here, and we do not post new admitees to the academie francaise. But this could be expanded and then nominated to DYK. Until then it's just plain esoteric. μηδείς (talk) 21:30, 21 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per article quality (article length too short), neutral on significance. Regarding Medeis suggestion above, how does this meet the requirements of DYK? DYK is not "ITN's table scraps" The article is not new, nor has it seen a 5 fold expansion, in the past 5 days. --Jayron3219:58, 21 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Your point is there is no way this marvelously notable person's article could possibly be expanded to meet the DYK requirements? Perhaps you are right; he doesn't belong on ITN or DYK. μηδείς (talk) 21:35, 21 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. Can we start just redacting/refactoring blatantly wrong calls to ship something off to DYK when it's not in any way qualified for it? GRAPPLEX20:18, 21 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Encyclopedic content. But, not notable. Even the subject is not well known outside Britain. Worthy of DYK but AFAIK not ITN.Regards, theTigerKing19:11, 22 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Nominator's comments: An announcement concerned with the release of a new gaming console is a very big deal and important development in this technological sub-field. The news has received a widespread media coverage and tops the news related to technology worldwide. --Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 16:32, 21 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Strong oppose. We had this out with the last Apple or Windows product or whatever (probably both), but we are not here to advertise new products. GRAPPLEX16:38, 21 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - While I'm a VG editor and would love to see a major announcement in the area on the FP ITN, we usually don't post such stories. Moreso, while Sony has announced it - that announcement was pretty much announcing vaporware - no hardware was shown, no price given, and so many things still in flux. It really is not a proper announcement that, if we were considering such product announcements as ITN, I would still be hesistant to include. --MASEM (t) 11:40 am, Today (UTC−5)
Not to disagree on the oppose, but we aren't a sports blog either but we report on the results of nearly every major event. I agree this PS4 announcement is trivial from a normal ITN standard, but we shouldn't ignore technology news just because it generally aligns with commercialization/monetary gain for one company. --MASEM (t) 18:15, 21 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I'll clarify my comment by saying that I wouldn't be opposed to posting the creation of a revolutionary, brand-new technology (like if someone invented the replicators or transporters from Star Trek) but the PS4 is just an extension of the PS line of products. 331dot (talk) 19:08, 21 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose I would only support the posting of some new tech product if it had/did something so undoubtedly revolutionary that it was all over the headlines. That's why you won't see any iPad/iPhone postings anytime soon (sorry!). PS4 brings improvements, but far from revolutionary. Expected would be a better way to put the changes. -- Anc516(Champs!) (Talk ▪ Contribs) 18:35, 21 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Strong oppose The release of it might possibly be worthy of consideration (although I will almost certainly oppose), but this is no more than announcement that a release date will b announced in due time. In more dignified times, Sony would simply have issued a press release. Kevin McE (talk) 19:09, 21 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Comment More recent stories take the deaths number to atleast 15 and injuries to 50.It's the first major blast in India in years.Also the first one in Hyderabad in almost 6 years. TheStrikeΣagle14:39, 21 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Conditional support pending confirmation that it was an act of terrorism or other deliberate act; from what I can read it's not entirely clear yet. Also pending article updates. 331dot (talk) 14:49, 21 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Wait Lets not jump to conclusions. Lets stop posing as investigators or crime scene experts or foreign policy experts or social scientists. Wait for the confirmation from the officials. The incident happened just under 2 hours ago. Lets not be caught media frenzy.Regards, theTigerKing15:20, 21 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Comment What the media says doesn't matter. What the Government of India says is final and binding! Don't be in a hurry. The article is notable since it has been reported by AP[1] and is expected to be covered globally. Lets wait for the official response.Regards, theTigerKing17:35, 21 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
It has already been covered by BBC, and by almost all the media publications in India. Anyways, if we should be waiting till official confirmation from GOI, I don't think this article would make its way to ITN anywhere by this week. -- ♪Karthik♫♪Nadar♫17:39, 21 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
When I said the comments of media doesn't matter, I meant Indian media brandishing the attacks as "terrorists attacks". You had mentioned in the comment that the media is calling the attacks an act of terror. Hence, I posted the comment. You have taken my comments in a different direction.Regards, theTigerKing17:50, 21 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Official ResponseDirector General of Police of Andhra Pradesh Dinesh Reddy has called the blasts "the handiwork of a terrorist network". Union Home Secretary R K Singh has called the two simultaneous explosions a "terror attack".[13] Union Home Minister Sushil Kumar Shinde has talked about intelligence on a possible terror attack prior to the blasts. Do we need more confirmation from GOI? Correct Knowledge«৳alk»20:30, 21 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
What do you mean by "no facts"?? Ohh, you want more fatalities??? Things may be usual in Chicago and Pakistan, but not so in India; and rarly in Southern India. Reportedly, Improvised Explosive Devices has also beein used for the attack. -- ♪Karthik♫♪Nadar♫04:12, 22 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, my, now I hate Indians because there aren't enough of them dead? (See the weird irony there?) The simple answer to your question is no. The article stands on its own. μηδείς (talk) 04:29, 22 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support Significant incident. While tragically common in Pakistan (which I suppose is what Medais is thinking of), this is not so common in India. LukeSurltc22:55, 21 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support: The southern part of India is relatively peaceful compared to the northern parts where most of the insurgency takes place and the areas around Mumbai and Delhi where most of the bombings in India have occurred. Even if you consider the whole of India, it's not exactly a place where people and property get blown up every other day unlike some other unfortunate countries in the world right now. So I'd say this is significant enough to be ITN. ChamalT•C03:25, 22 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Question: Isn't "blasts" too informal in an encyclopedia? Aren't "bombings" (if terrorists are the suspects) or "explosions" (if you guys want to play it safe) better alternatives? –HTD16:44, 22 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Bombings will be the better word as per the current scenario. Can some admin help me regarding this one; as there exist one redirection on the same. Thanks! -- ♪Karthik♫♪Nadar♫18:00, 22 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
We have frequently used blasts before and I don't think it's too informal; for example, the wording in another ITN item is "A bomb blast at a market in Hazara Town...". SpencerT♦C20:36, 22 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
PULL we dont post 13 deaths (meanwhile Syria had about 50 and we dont post it). Chamal is also wrong. Hyderabad and Bangalore have had several bombings in the decade.Lihaas (talk) 20:27, 22 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
There was consensus to post, and we do post items with a consensus to do so. Removing the "[Attention needed]" tag; if there is consensus to pull (or a violated ITN criterion or other issue, like copyvio), then the tag can be used. SpencerT♦C20:36, 22 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Article needs updating Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Oppose. I don't see this as meeting any of the three criteria for the ticker. Was not in an office of power, not particularly notable in their field (this isn't Adam Lanza or the Beltway sniper), and international impact is limited. 331dot (talk) 11:25, 21 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
It has nothing to do with the murderer being Japanese or being executed by Japan; he only had three victims. Pardon my examples; that's what I'm most familiar with, but where this person is from is not relevant. 331dot (talk) 12:01, 21 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
What? Absolutely not, just look at the vigorous opposition to the "Chris Dorner" nomination. Why does everyone assume that Americans have a predominant advantage for appearing on WP:ITN when, if anything, the opposite is true?--WaltCip (talk) 14:22, 21 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's comments: News of Earth-sized exoplanets are not very rare these days, but this just reported planetary system has two of them which are smaller than Earth, and one of them is almost the size of the Moon. Nergaal (talk) 08:04, 21 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support - From the linked Science News article: "The record for the smallest planet beyond our Solar System has been shattered by astronomers." Sounds like a significant discovery to me, but article needs some work. --ThaddeusB (talk) 14:19, 21 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support A good ITN item, only reservation is a question of systematic bias this looks like it is only a local news story, has anyone got a link to a Kepler based news article ? Is it even making news over there ? LGAtalkedits00:49, 22 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Over where? Kepler-37 b?
AFAICT, the source is an American website reporting a paper in a British journal by an international team of scientists (American-led, but international), using a BBC report as its main source of information. Formerip (talk) 01:19, 22 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
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