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Current issues

Tor nodes

An ongoing discussion is in progress regarding adjusting the blocking policy in reference to TOR nodes. The discussion is here. Regards, M-ercury at 13:18, January 8, 2008

ΚέκρωΨ Need to be Banned!

He is consistently poisioning Wikipedia with his racist and hatered and is not adhiring to NPOV. View his dialogue from the following page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Macedonia_%28terminology%29

"In the interests of free speech, I reserve my right to "offend" anyone I see fit on talk pages, including Skopjans. ·ΚέκρωΨ· (talk) 05:35, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

And Macedonians reserve the right to "offend" Greeks when referring to themselves. And everyone else reserves the right to "offend" Greeks when referring to Macedonians. BalkanFever 10:21, 5 January 2008 (UTC) And they already do, persistently and throughout Wikipedia. So what's your beef? ·ΚέκρωΨ· (talk) 16:25, 5 January 2008 (UTC) My point is we don't have to bring it up every time someone says Skopjan and FYROM are offensive, because they are two different forms of offense. One comes from being called something, one comes from hearing/reading something. BalkanFever 00:54, 6 January 2008 (UTC) Exactly; we don't have to bring it up every time. This whole thread started when a now banned Skopjan editor was "offended" by my use of that word. And then your newcomer пичка felt it had to proffer its "constructive" 2¢ as well. ·ΚέκρωΨ· (talk) 02:40, 6 January 2008 (UTC) " For those of you who don't know "пичка" literally means "Pussy" but more directly is equilivant to the F-WORD!!— Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.236.136.2 (talk • contribs)

Yeah, thanks for that. If you'd read the thread more thoroughly, you'd know I was directly quoting an earlier abusive post by another editor who'd used the Slavic word "пичка" as part of an anti-Greek slur. ·ΚέκρωΨ· (talk) 20:44, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

I don't think it's helpful for anyone to use ethnically or racially offensive terms, particularly since it's a clear breach of Wikipedia:Civility. You don't enjoy unconstrained free speech on talk pages or elsewhere and you have no "right" to cause gratuitous offence. If I see people using terms such as "Skopjans" in future (that includes you, Kekrops) the comments will be removed and the offender will be blocked if he or she persists. -- ChrisO (talk) 11:55, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

I have explained countless times that it isn't used to cause gratuitous offence; it is simply a metonymic exonym. It also happens to be by far the most common term used by Greeks. The name Greeks itself is considered a derogatory exonym by many Greeks; does that mean it should be banned too? You can't censor an entire nation. Finally, who is going to reprimand you for calling Greeks a nation of "crackpots", a deliberately offensive slur, in reference to this very issue? ·ΚέκρωΨ· (talk) 12:03, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

White Americans probably didn't specifically intend to cause offence when "nigger" was the most common term used to refer to black people, but that doesn't make it any less offensive to the target of the term. Nor is this an issue of "censorship", because you don't enjoy unconstrained free speech on Wikipedia, period - you're subject to the conditions set out in Wikipedia:Civility. If you don't accept them you shouldn't be editing here. And finally, don't misquote me or raise red herrings. I've given you fair notice here and on your talk page, and I'm not prepared to debate the unambiguous requirements of Wikipedia:Civility. Other Greek editors seem to be able to manage not to use ethnically offensive terms, so I expect you to be able to do the same. -- ChrisO (talk) 12:23, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Don't accuse me of misquoting you. Perhaps you should actually read the policy that you have invoked three times in the past few sentences. ·ΚέκρωΨ· (talk) 12:32, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

The bit about "Racial, ethnic, sexual, and religious slurs" being a "serious example" of a breach of civility is clear enough, and you should also read WP:CIV#Why is incivility bad?. Really, though, I'm not prepared to discuss this further; you know what's expected of you and all other editors, so you should have no difficulty in following this very basic policy. -- ChrisO (talk) 12:44, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

And yet the only one who has made an ethnic slur here is you. ·ΚέκρωΨ· (talk) 12:51, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

I urge anyone unfamiliar with the issue to read the FA Macedonia_(terminology)#Names_in_the_languages_of_the_region. Greeks do not refer to inhabitants of fYRoM as Macedonians because they have their own Macedonians. So this is very much a political debate. It appears to me ChrisO is trying to force Kekrops to succumb to a specific POV. --   Avg    12:46, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Not at all. The fact that the term is used in the context of a political dispute doesn't make it any more acceptable - just as the Serbian derogatory term for Albanians, "Shiptars", isn't any more acceptable because it's used in conection with the Kosovo dispute. It's not as if "Skopjans" is the only term that can be used; "citizens of FYROM" and "Macedonian Slavs" are viable and reasonably uncontentious alternative terms. It's clear that the term causes widespread offence to those to whom it refers, it causes unnecessary tension and aggravation (as this thread demonstrates) and there are viable alternative terms that you could just as easily use; in short, there's no reason to use it. And it's hard to avoid the conclusion that some editors are trying to make a disruptive point when they use the term even though they're fully aware of these factors. -- ChrisO (talk) 13:58, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Not really. "FYROM" and "Macedonian Slavs" are equally "offensive" according to those to whom they refer. In fact, they reject anything other than "Macedonians", for obvious political reasons. And you're forgetting the crucial difference between this case and the other examples you cite: Serbs are not offended by the name Albanians, nor are whites offended by blacks, so the only reason they would use those slurs would be to cause offence. Greeks, on the other hand, only use Skopjans because the self-identifying term is offensive to them. ·ΚέκρωΨ· (talk) 14:10, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

I'd like to expand this. The terms "Macedonia/n/s" are equally highly offensive to most Greeks when they are used in reference to the South Slavic ethnic group. Yet I don't see anyone complaining here about those other alternatives proposed by ChrisO above to be universally used across Wikipedia so as to maintain this civility level. All members of the ethnic group choose to tease Greeks (Macedonians or others), by adamantly calling themselves plain "Macedonians". "Macedonia/n/s", undisambiguated, to quote ChrisO, "causes unnecessary tension and aggravation (as this thread demonstrates) and there are viable alternative terms that you could just as easily use; in short, there's no reason to use it". NikoSilver 18:51, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

But the on-WP consensus is clearly "Ethnic Macedonian" or, where dab. is unnecessary, "Macedonian." Rather than accept this, Kekrops persists in using a perjorative. He should have stopped long ago. He should stop. Jd2718 (talk) 19:38, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

The WP consensus is still heavily disputed, and the WP flimsy consensus regards articles, not talkpages. The alternative is pejorative to the other side, yet still I see no complaint for that. I repeat that the words "Macedonia/n/s" in reference to the south Slavic ethnic group and without disambiguation are highly offensive to Greek editors. I will support this, if it's done for both sides: I.e. if ethnic Macedonian editors are also forced to not offend the Greek editors in talkpages, by using whichever qualifier they choose. Simple. NikoSilver 20:01, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

BTW if Kekrops is offended, he is not in any way entitled to offend. However, I see no intended offense by Kekrops. He is merely using the prevailing terminology in his country (just like the others are doing without him complaining). To give you a recent example of the vast usage of Skopje/an in Greece, see this latest article from the accredited Greek News site "SKAI News".[1] I can furnish thousands more, and I can quote hundreds of Greek officials as well. NikoSilver 21:05, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

[unindent] Take a peak in Greek governmental sites: [2] (helpful translation by Google). Are you accusing an entire nation of being blasphemous? NikoSilver 21:05, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

All I see is an attempt by certain users with a certain frame of thought to label a widely used descriptor as "pejorative", by taking the bait of "hey, that offends me!" There is simply nothing that they will not label as "offensive", because the doctrine does not allow them to. NikoSilver 21:05, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Possibility of Sanctions

I invite any "non-warring" administrator to remind Kekrops of the discretionary sanctions available under the recent Macedonia ArbCom decision. The text reads

Any uninvolved administrator may, on their own discretion, impose sanctions on any editor working in the area of conflict if that editor fails to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, the expected standards of behavior, or the normal editorial process. The sanctions imposed may include blocks of up to one year in length; bans from editing any page or set of pages within the area of conflict; restrictions on reverts; or any other measures which the imposing administrator believes are reasonably necessary to ensure the smooth functioning of the project. Prior to any sanctions being imposed, the editor in question shall be given a warning with a link to this decision.

I think that a simple warning should be sufficient to stop this. Jd2718 (talk) 19:41, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

---

I invite any "non-warring" administrator to remind all ethnic Macedonian editors who identify as "Macedonians" in their userpages of the discretionary sanctions available under the recent Macedonia ArbCom decision. The text reads

Any uninvolved administrator may, on their own discretion, impose sanctions on any editor working in the area of conflict if that editor fails to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, the expected standards of behavior, or the normal editorial process. The sanctions imposed may include blocks of up to one year in length; bans from editing any page or set of pages within the area of conflict; restrictions on reverts; or any other measures which the imposing administrator believes are reasonably necessary to ensure the smooth functioning of the project. Prior to any sanctions being imposed, the editors in question shall be given a warning with a link to this decision.

I think that a simple warning should be sufficient to stop this. NikoSilver 20:04, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

I find a most welcome solution that words deemed offensive are to be avoided, however this has to happen in both sides. All Greeks should be forced to stop using "Skopjans" if and only if all fYRoM editors are forced to stop using "Macedonians". They should both start using "viable alternative terms" as ChrisO describes it, such as "Macedonian Slavs". Anything else is a biased decision against one or the other side. --   Avg    21:25, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

This is getting frivolous. There is very obviously a big difference between identifying yourself using a particular term, and identifying someone else using a term which they find offensive. -- ChrisO (talk) 22:56, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

One can be interpreted as "name-calling", the other as "impersonation". They can both be considered "offensive". A country's capital is very often used as a descriptor in diplomacy, making the claim that it is offensive simply ridiculous. NikoSilver 23:05, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Letting the capital stand for the country (Moscow warns, Bonn Berlin declines, Washington objects) is common. Turning that into an adjective to stand for the people is not. In this case, it is offensive. Jd2718 (talk) 01:43, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

It seems rather obvious that the user Kekrops is disrupting Wikipedia. He is constantly inserting derogatory terms and violates the policies of WP:MOSMAC. I find it very strange that user has not been blocked as he is breaking Wikipedia rules daily in many of his edits. JdeJ (talk) 00:17, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Any trademark experts?

An editor is expressing concerns at Template talk:TardisIndexFile that Image:TARDIS-trans.png is subject to trademark, and can therefor not be used freely, even though the image itself is licenced under CC-BY-SA. He keeps removing the image from the template. I have been trying to explain to him that trademark is not subject to WP:NFC policy, as trademark is not covered. I want some expert opinion on this issue... I am certain the concerns are misplaced, as I explained on the talkpage. — Edokter • Talk • 21:14, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

There was an issue recently (I'll be damned if I can find it) about photographs of toys being copyvios. But, as a very general rule, 2d images of 3d things are not subject to our FU provisions. ➔ REDVEЯS is standing in the dark 21:21, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

(ec)Ah ha! Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive346#Copyright problems with toy photos ➔ REDVEЯS is standing in the dark 21:25, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, but the toys were copyrighted, the police box is not. — Edokter • Talk • 21:28, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

If anyone owns it' it's probably the Metropolitan Police. --Rodhullandemu (Talk) 21:32, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

No. Quite famously, the copyright (or trademark, one or the other) on the police box design is held by the BBC. With a lovely (C) 1963 on merchandise, too. ➔ REDVEЯS is standing in the dark 21:58, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Indeed. It's here.--Rodhullandemu (Talk) 22:07, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

(ec)IANACL, but the {{logo fur}} template applies to trademarks equally as to logos. Just my 2c. --Rodhullandemu (Talk) 21:22, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

(ec)FU provisions don't apply to the template namespace. ➔ REDVEЯS is standing in the dark 21:25, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

To clarify the matter, let me reitterate that this is not a copyright problem, but purely dealing with trademark... Something the editor that removed the image keeps forgetting. The trademark may be intelectual property of the BBC, but there can be no trademark infringement as Wikipedia does not run a business selling TARDIS/Doctor Who related products or services. The photograph is of a 3D object, the trademark however is only of the 2 dimensional representation of the TARDIS; see the trademark as registered by the BBC. — Edokter • Talk • 01:00, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

The approach taken on Commons (and presumably here too) is that we are concerned with copyright not trademarks. Images that are free of copyright may be hosted and used provided that they are free of copyright even if they are a registered trademark - for example Commons includes the Coca-Cola logo. I'm not sure I agree with this, but it is the way such images have been handled to date. Trademarked images can be tagged with {{trademark}}. So if the image is free of copyright, it can be used - bear in mind that a photo of a subject otherwise free of copyright will itself attract copyright if a creative process was used in producing it by the photographer- e.g. lighting, angle etc. WjBscribe 01:16, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Actually there is a copyright issue with images of toys. I can't find it right now, but this was an issue with an image I uploaded a long time ago of an action figure; it had to be deleted from the Wikimedia Commons because although the image itself was appropriately licensed, the appearance of the toy was protected by US copyright law (under which Wikipedia operates). Technically it's counted as a three-dimensional "work of applied art", which the Copyright Act of 1976 defines as "two-dimensional and three-dimensional works of fine, graphic, and applied art, photographs, prints and art reproductions, maps, globes, charts, technical drawings, diagrams, and models." Toys were ruled to be copyrightable in this 1983 case. A photo of a copyrighted three-dimensional object is thus potentially a copyright violation, unless the object in question is incidental to the subject of the photo. Hence a photo of a child playing with a TARDIS would not be a copyright violation, as the child rather than the TARDIS is the subject of the photo; but a photo of a TARDIS on its own would have copyright problems. This article in the WIPO magazine explains the legal position (see in particular the "Incidental background" section). I'll wait and see what other people say, but as a Commons admin I'm inclined to delete this image as a probable copyvio. -- ChrisO (talk) 01:26, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Presumably this particular image raises questions about whether the "police box" design is copyrightable. I have no knowledge of the particulars of this case mind you. A deletion discussion about the image might be the best way for everyone to air their concerns. WjBscribe 01:30, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

The original design may or may not have been copyrighted (probably not, since I doubt anyone in the US was interested in marketing British police boxes!). However, I'd think the toy version would very likely be covered by the copyright law. -- ChrisO (talk) 01:46, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Agian: The BBC does not hold copyright, only trademark. So why does everyone bring up copyright? The box cannot be copyrighted; it is not designed by the BBC. The prop is built by them, but it is an non-copyrightable (public) design. — Edokter • Talk • 12:50, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Actually, there's another issue here, which is whether the specific police box in question here is copyrightable because it is a prop created for the television show. Even absent considerations of the overall design of the box, the trademark status, etc, that's a major issue. I replaced the image with a photograph of a police box on the street, which surely carries no copyright problems and is still a fine illustration. Phil Sandifer (talk) 04:43, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

It is hidious! I still stand by my position that there is no copyright problem (it's a photo of a stage prop) and that trademark cannot be infringed. But we can speculate as long as we want... I'd rather have definitive answers. Is there anybody in the foundation that we can ask? — Edokter • Talk • 19:23, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

commons:Category:De Lorean DMC-12 in Back to the Future, commons:Category:Automobiles in fiction, commons:Category:Batmobile. I'm going to guess and say it's probably ok. At least, make sure people on commons know of the concern here, and let them sort it out, because it will effect a LOT more images than just this one. -- Ned Scott 06:29, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

• The DeLorean time machine and the Batmobile are ordinary cars with some extra gadgets and trim attached. I don't think that this qualifies them as works of art. Plenty of stock automobile designs required artistic talent to design, but that doesn't make photos of them automatically unfree. *** Crotalus *** 08:33, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

• But a typical blue police box is a work of art? Even if someone specifically created the model, all they have done is create a model of a common object. -- Ned Scott 05:20, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

I started this mess, and I'm just going to drop it. It seems the picture is also being used by Wikipedia:WikiProject Doctor Who as a logo, and the issue is unsure enough that I'll just let it lie for the moment. The picture should ideally be the logo for The Tardis Index File, but that's listed on the site as copyrighted and used under fair use [3]. --Phirazo 03:19, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Considering the actual Doctor Who logo is used, yes, that is copyrighted. But the TARDIS is not copyrightable; it is a stage prop and a replica of a (once) public object. And while the trademark may be "intellectual property" of the BBC, it is not an issue, as that can only be infringed on when used for marketing goods and services similair to those marketed by the BBC under that trademark. While many/most corporate logos are also copyrighted, and thus fall under fair use, trademark alone permits all other uses outside marketing. As such it does not fall under WP:NFCC. I hope this clears it up; It took quite a bit of reading on my part. — Edokter • Talk • 18:40, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Agreed. If you posit that there is no copyright, it is not an issue because it is a common object. A more obscure trademark could perhaps be tarnished or diluted through inappropriate use, but not a police box.Wikidemo (talk) 18:44, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Image on Adolf Eichmann

In the past couple of days three different images have appeared on the entry for Adolf Eichmann. I'm simply not well versed enough on the fair use rules to tell which, if any, of the three should actually be used. One has a fair use tag on it, another is a scan of a book cover, and the third is a free image but of inferior quality. Can an admin with some knowledge of how fair use should be applied here help sort this out? AniMate 08:01, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

yes,can an admin see which one of these is best qualified to exist on wikipedia??thanks Grandia01 (talk) 08:17, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

The third image, Image:Eichmann.jpg, is probably best, for two reasons. First, it's a free image, released into the public domain as a document of the US Federal Government. Second, it shows the subject in his military uniform, which is related to almost everything in the article (given that the subject appears to be a Nazi war criminal of some note). Free images are almost always preferred over similar fair use images, and the book cover refers to a work that is mentioned only briefly in the article. The casual image is a better resolution - but, again, the free image should be preferred in most cases. Hope this helps, UltraExactZZ ^Claims ~ Evidence 13:58, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

In regards to the second image, please familiarize yourself with Wikipedia:Non-free content#Unacceptable images #8. We can't use copyrighted book covers for the purpose of illustrating the subject of the cover. We can only use book covers to illustrate the book cover in the context of critical commentary about the item.-Andrew c ^[talk] 14:19, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, it has to be three - three is currently used in the article and the other two are deletion nom'd as unused fair use images. Situation seems to be resolved for the moment. WilyD 15:04, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Agreed - number three it is! :-) delldot talk 15:13, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

One user is continually re-inserting the unfree image - given the circumstances, it'd probably be best if someone else could take him aside and explain how things work. WilyD 19:58, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Some admin intervention is definitely needed. Wily and Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) have both violated 3rr over the image, and I am still unsure the image that has been reinserted is valid under fair use. AniMate 22:10, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

I'm dealing with it. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return Fire)} 20:32, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

User:NERIC-Security

The above account is a multiple-user account, used to keep tabs on vandalism from educational IP ranges.

Does this violate WP:SOCK under the role account clause? haz (talk) 21:25, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

If they're using the account to edit, then multiple-user accounts would violate the GFDL requirement that an edit be attributable to a single person. Corvus cornix_talk 21:50, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Well, they have edited, but there's a phone number on their userpage. Should someone call them? Ioeth _{(talk contribs friendly)} 21:54, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

I was wondering about this account as well, and have seen it requesting blocks/unblocks of related IP addresses. Since these requests seem to be granted, some kind of confirmation of the account's ownership should probably be obtained. I wouldn't block the account, though, as their work is benefiting ours. Any IPs they are keeping track of are IPs we won't have to worry about. - auburnpilot talk 22:10, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Ok, I'm calling called. Nobody answered. - auburnpilot talk 22:59, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

I did a reverse search on the number for the heck of it. I am not getting any results. I did get a false positive though. Rgoodermote  01:32, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

See here on the Neric.org site. It's definitely their number, and the answering machine says the same (although I didn't leave a message). - auburnpilot talk 01:34, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

For some reason I did not trust the site, but a machine answered huh. If memory serves me, there is an account used by multiple users. It is owned by a shareholder or something like that. But it seems the account has a legit reason and as I have read not editing, the account is not a sock...maybe not the last of its kind. Rgoodermote  01:48, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Business hours are over in the US, and will be for the next 60 hours. Try calling them then. east.718 at 01:53, January 12, 2008

Probably best to do that, by the way I am not doing it I have school in 60 hours. Rgoodermote  02:04, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Hi. I set this account up as a "roll" account, to keep my personal edits (and POV) seperate from my responsibilities as an administrator for our regional educational network. I have two related goals; for my organization to insure that the districts that we serve become aware of the inappropriate edits, and I can say that based upon phone calls and e-mails received these past two weeks, they are waking up to this as an issue; by creating an account associated with this task, should I change jobs (no plans for that in the near future, but one never knows), that the work that I am doing in my roll as a network administrator would continue with my successor.

Our "normal" operating hours are M-F 8-4 (+5) which is why no one answered (I'm at home right now). Whatever the consensus is, I will be more than happy to follow. Let me know. --NERIC-Security (talk) 02:10, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Regarding edits, the only edits that have been made with this account have been reverts to vandalism, and notices on the associated User_talk pages. --NERIC-Security (talk) 02:21, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

It is not the edits we are concerned about. You identified yourself with a corporation/businesses which is a concern because we do not know how many people use the account or have access to it. The guideline here states that there must be only one person who uses to account as to make sure no one is improperly blamed. Rgoodermote  02:27, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Hi. It is a multi-county educational agency, chartered by the NYS Ed Department. I am the only one who has access to the account. If it would eliminate any concern, I'll agree that should I leave NERIC, the account would go with me and not the position.

The only addresses that I will ask to have blocked, or unblocked, are associated with our class B address 163.153.0.0/16. This link to ARIN will show you the netblock information, and my business contact information (the e-mail listed is one that attracts spam and is not checked regularly, but if you want to use it to verify my info, let me know and I'd be happy to log into that server).

--NERIC-Security (talk) 02:39, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

I am stepping out of conversation as the matter seems to be settled, I have not verified information but I believe the user is telling the truth. Rgoodermote  02:59, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

So long as the account is not shared, I don't see any real issue with you continuing the work you've been doing so far. If you leave the position, rather than passing the account onto the next person, allow them to create their own account and note it on your user page. Your efforts are obviously beneficial to our project, as a great deal of IP vandalism is traced back to school addresses, so hopefully a few others will chime in. - auburnpilot talk 02:46, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

This seems to be the "occasional exception" in regards to a multi-user account. A SPA with fighting vandalism from a shared range? That sounds fantastic to me. --CastAStone/^{/₵₳$↑₳₴₮ʘ№€} 22:27, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

mirror site with dyslexia?!

What gives - anyone seen this?

Here is a weird mirror

of my userpage. cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 11:05, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Strange, my eyes didn't even see the problem until I read it twice. My eyes are warped now. Checking my version my userpage says "I am a rokllabcer." Quite a funny read in the mode, but is it worth the mention on WP:AN? Maybe someplace else would be more appropriate. — Save_Us † 11:32, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

That is actually kind of funny, guess its the result of a bug when translating the material, I do have to wonder if they have a "arsimintdator's" noticeboards :-) - Caribbean~H.Q. 11:36, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

I know...just begs the question why...cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 11:41, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

I'm not sure but its certainly not reading the detailed template that I use on my user page, [4] so it seems that is the more plausible explanation, as to why, the world may never know... but maybe somebody can contact the webmaster about it. - Caribbean~H.Q. 11:48, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Perhaps its an experiment with keeping the first and last letters in place but jumbling the middle of the word (people can still read it). Why they would upload userpages I don't know although perhaps they just got a bot to do it? James086^{Talk | Email} 11:52, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Some of the links stay on his site and are current but others will send you back here. Click on the please leave a new message bar. CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 13:59, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

It's being instantly updated, which probably means that it fetches the current version from Wikipedia and then jumbles the letters. User:Dorftrottel 18:12, January 12, 2008

It is related to this I believe, an Edinburgh study(although most of them mention it as a Cambridge study, I believe the Edinburgh study was the genesis.) Languagehat has some info on it, as well as the Cognition and Brain Sciences Unit at Cambridge University. Dureo (talk) 03:01, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Recombinant text

I feel this requires admin attention. The article Recombinant text has been nominated for deletion today, following what in my opinion is a canvassing spree[5]. I would like to know whether this is indeed canvassing and how this could or should affect the AfD, if at all. User:Dorftrottel 14:48, January 12, 2008

It doesn't seem to be target toward gaining a particular outcome...--CastAStone/^{/₵₳$↑₳₴₮ʘ№€} 16:26, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Ok. User:Dorftrottel 18:06, January 12, 2008

Disputed the balance in articles Albania , Greece ,Epirus ,Pelasgians, Illyrinas,Macedonians

Could you please, I very much call your attention because all related articles concerning Albania, Greece ,Pelasgians ,Illyrians, Epirus have their balance very much disputed by a group of editors, understandably from where, that mistreat every Albanian editor and express only their view of interest. I would like to ensure you that I am not the only one described with such terms as “weird “ , “confused” “fringe ideas””abominable” while you also tangentially want to influence other administrators by expressing his view for “ skeptical future “ and extensively ban them and their computer including main communication phone service as AlbteleCOM ,so no anyone from Albania itself phone network can not contribute in Albanian related pages. For so long period I am testimonial of Albanian user and Albania offended by some of members of this group and they have become really paranoid with me deleting and my apologias . They communicate with each other and coordinate their movements, of course they are smart and academic persons but they change or modulate facts, post new maps ,delete section and even talk pages. They deleted the section Albanians as Pelasgians although enormous secondary sources and references that mention the argument. I agree to be in control as any other editors but this situation got to change, I am sure that my work will go ashtray you will delete any post of mine. I expressed my apologies to them, on my part, to show good will and to collaborate but no one of them cared to apologias back and trust me they are not angels here, they express a strong bias, old mentality and extreme and unreasonable nationalistic ideas, they all know Arvanitika a form of Albanian and are all ethnically let us say Greek-Albanians. I would propose that the mention articles to be watched by equilibrate independent administrators and the balanced to be strongly guarded.Dodona--Burra (talk) 16:46, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Note: this is about the case mentioned in this posting above. I'd be extremely glad if some other admin could look into this and give some advice. Fut.Perf. ☼ 17:03, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

If the above post is exemplary of that user's encyclopedic contributions, then they need to "go ashtray" indeed. Why should he not just be indefinitely blocked as an admitted sock of banned user "Dodona", lately editing as PIRRO BURRI (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)? If the user wishes to appeal the ban, he should do it from his original account. Sandstein (talk) 21:28, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Wait a second, this is the appealing of his ban. And he can't do it from his original account because he never had one before he was banned. (Used to edit from IPs only.) Please let's hear it here, or on his current talk page; it doesn't matter which account he's using. But the point about the quality of the contributions is valid of course. I was just glad he was showing some willingness to at least try and come to a constructive arrangement. So, I'd like to give him a second chance in recognition of that, although I'm skeptical myself. But either way, I don't want to be the one to decide this, because if I tell him he can't edit, he'll just accuse me of being part of the Greek cabal again, and resume his daily sockpuppet show (which was a nuisance.) Fut.Perf. ☼ 21:41, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Ok, German guys thanks for being so reasonable and also so judging, of course I was not born in UK and I have not experience editing in encyclopedia and more I am not a historian but I have the willing to contribute .Why you do not go ashtray yourself if you do not see the meaning and the essence of my post. Anyway if you decide to ban me go head I do not care but I will not stay and watch when the history of my country and my people is maltreated. The best Albanologs were German but probably you are not the same generation. But in case that you want s.th constructive I have chosen already my Mentor and it is Greek, an honest one, can i ask you again to watch the balance in Albanian related articles. Dodona --Burra (talk) 11:31, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Anyone watching Category:Requests_to_undelete_images?

Is any administrator watching Category:Requests_to_undelete_images? There are only three images there now, but I might be adding more soon if I start working more with fair use images. --Apoc2400 (talk) 17:13, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

I'm not going to undelete the two images you requested (Image:USB Icon.svg and Image:Firewire Icon.svg) because, as SVG images, I believe they fail WP:FUC #3(b). If you have a low resolution raster image (jpg/png) with a proper fair use rationale, I would not be opposed if you re-uploaded the icons.-Andrew c ^[talk] 17:29, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Also, this is my first time noticing request to undelete images. What exactly is the process for admins? I can understand if the request is granted, it's just as easy as undeleted the image and reverting to the previous version. But what would I do if I wanted to deny a request? Re-delete the image page and contact the user who requested? or should I respond on the image page? or something else?-Andrew c ^[talk] 17:33, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Being an SVG file does not disqualify an image from being claimed as fair use. It simply must be uploaded at a lower detail than the original, and meet all other fair use requirements. There's a template out there somewhere that SVG files can be tagged with; it explains the restrictions on their use (I can't remember its name). I didn't know about Category:Requests to undelete images, but there's no real process as far as I can tell. If somebody wants an image restored so that they can update its information to comply with policy, simply restore the image. If they don't make it comply with policy, delete it. If you want to deny the request (maybe the image doesn't meet fair use criteria [i.e. an image of a living person]), simply explain on the user's talk page and leave the image deleted. - auburnpilot talk 18:34, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

For such simple logos, I think SVG:s would be fine. I could try to hunt down the same file again and upload with the same same, but this would save some work. For images from the big mass that were speedily deleted for missing fair use rationale, I think they can be restored without much process. The fair use rationale will be reviewed later anyway. --Apoc2400 (talk) 00:31, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Do these logos even meet the threshold of originality for copyright? I know they are trademarked, but that's a different thing. *** Crotalus *** 01:30, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

I have undeleted firewire and USB, I think a deletion discussion should at least take place, for the fair use rationale makes sense. I don't think SVGs violate fair use for such simple logos, as long as we use them at low resolutions. (An alternative would be to force the resolution in the svg file directly). -- lucasbfr ^talk 12:14, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

I started a thread at IfD. -- lucasbfr ^talk 12:20, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Multiple issues

I have multiple issues that I need dealt with, so this may be a complex admin.

• Issue 1.
  

On the 3rd of January I requested from the Military History Project coordinator (reposted to the article discussion page by Buckshot06 (talk) 06:57, 3 January 2008 (UTC)) that the article named Iaşi-Chişinău Offensive either be renamed (previously requested by - Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 18:45, 16 June 2007 (UTC)), or moved to the existing English titled article from which it was redirected, Iassy-Kishinev Offensive. The name this event is known by in the works of David Glantz is Yassy-Kishinev, so that was also suggested.

When the discussion went on into a polemic and Google hits counting, I consulted the Wikipedia standard for Cyrillic transliteration, and based on the ISO 9 standard moved the article to the Yassy'-Kishinev Offensive since this confirmed to both Wikipedia Style Guide, closely confirmed to most widely used source (David Glantz), and above all was a productive move towards continuing work on the article without continuing polemic which has continued due to a bias POV based on, I think, national feelings of Rumanian editors for over six months. It was my reasoning that editors who were intransigent on the issue of the article name for six months were unlikely to be productive on the content of the article either.

Unable to shift the decision-making process one way or another, I then created a new article called Yassy-Kishinev Offensive Operation, and tagged the Iaşi-Chişinău Offensive for deletion. In part this is due to the one sided content of the article, and the very much incomplete description of the historical event, and persistent POV, or lack of NPOV in the editorialship. The newly created Yassy-Kishinev Offensive Operation article was immediately tagged for speedy deletion as a forked article, where as in fact it is not a forked article, but merely one with an English name that conforms to both the best known source and to accepted Wikipedia ISO 9 standard, and above all seeks to actually productively complete the article.

Reguest for Issue 1.
I request that the original Rumanian-titled article Iaşi-Chişinău Offensive be speedily deleted along with the redirect from the Iassy-Kishinev Operation since it does not conform to Wikipedia standards, and actually prevents active completion of the article. I also request that the new article Yassy-Kishinev Offensive Operation be protected from malicious editorialship that seeks to impose a POV of a particular national perspective without appropriate references. I also note that the contemporary name for Romania for the purpose of the Second World War history appears to be Rumania as used by the US Army War College by its former educator, and the most prominent source on the operation, the above mentioned David Glantz. I can not very well change the source quotes I intend to insert into the article because they do not conform with the current official Romanian spelling!

Issue 2.
In attempting to understand the rationale for renaming the article above into Rumanian, I visited the Romania article. What I found there was that inconvenient truths about the origin of the name Rumania (as I see them within the time period of the above article), were removed from the Etymology section, and shunted off into a separate, equally fact-bereft article that uses predominantly Rumanian or Italian (sympathetic POV) references that have not been translated into English, or in some cases even dated. The primary source for assertions are from a source unknown in English and originates from Rumanian sources. When I tried to point this out in the Romanian discussion, and then to offer suggestions, discuss and show sources, I was abused, rediculed, and my comments were interspersed with nonsense comments by another registered user Nergaal. I was further issued a warning by a suspected sock puppet:

"To user mrg3105mrg3105: your interventions are but semieducated spinning. It is of no interest, if you are doing so out of ignorance or you are deliberately trolling. Your behaviour is disruptive. If you continue, you'll be blocked.--84.153.17.16 (talk) 16:45, 12 January 2008 (UTC)"

I note that not one of my statemes has been repudiated or alternatives offered in the discussion page.

Reguest for Issue 2.
I would also request that this be taken as unwarranted abuse from the user, and the user be advised to desist from spamming my contributions and my user page with comments that include "hey commie, you should stop using the archaic term rumunian (i.e. that term was in use in soviet russia/ussr) and use the one that is currently in official use (i.e. Romanian). Nergaal (talk) 22:00, 12 January 2008 (UTC)" since I am free to use the name for Rumania outside to the published articles, and where the use is a direct quote from a source, since the term was a historical term used during the period under discussion (source provided in the discussion page).--mrg3105mrg3105 22:31, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Admin response, re. content forking and enforced deletions: no way. If you can't get consensus for a move, the article will stay where it is, and forks mustn't be done. Sorry, that's just how we do things here. Fut.Perf. ☼ 22:37, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

I've redirected the POV fork Yassy-Kishinev Offensive Operation to the original article Iaşi-Chişinău Offensive. If you try to undo that redirection I'll protect it. This is for as long as there is no consensus to move the Iaşi- article somewhere else; no prejudice from my side, I don't care either way. Fut.Perf. ☼ 22:42, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

The issue is not forking. The issue is that the editors of Iaşi- article refuse to comply with the need to have English titled articles. Did you read the above? Is this Rumanian Wiki or an English one?--mrg3105mrg3105 22:48, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

As I said, I don't care which which title would be better. The only point here is that the article history must be kept together in one place. If you want it moved, the only way to do so is to achieve consensus and then move it, not fork it. Fut.Perf. ☼ 22:50, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

The consensus is not possible due to lack of NPOV, so what are you going to do about that?--mrg3105mrg3105 01:37, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/John Gohde 2

This arbitration case has been closed and the final decision is available at the link above. John Gohde (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) is banned from Wikipedia for a period of one year.

On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, Daniel (talk) 22:43, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Question from a new editor

Since I discovered Wikipedia, I really love it and believe it's one of the most (if not THE most) important resources on the Web.

I'm not the sort of person who usually gets involved in this sort of thing but prefer to remain a passive bystander and silently give thanks to the many people who make these wonderful resources happen.

However, today I was reading some articles about different episodes of Open All Hours, a British comedy series starring Ronnie Barker, which is one of my favourite shows.

As I native speaker, I noticed that the grammar, vocab & sentence structure of the articles was not so good, and I later discovered that these articles had been written by user fernandogoaz who I think is from Spain. Although I applaud him for making such a valiant effort in setting up these pages in the first place as he obviously also loves this show, it seems to me that there are no procedures in place for making sure that articles written by non-natives are edited and improved quickly after being created. Personally, I wouldn't dream of entering Spanish Wikipedia and writing an article in my faltering Spanish about something.

I am an EFL/ESL teacher in a foreign country, and it is important to me that the articles on the English Wiki are of good quality language wise. For example, after a lesson where my students and I watch a comedy DVD and then discuss it for half an hour, I ask them to pretend they are Wikipedia editors and write a Wiki article about what they've just seen. We then go into the computer room and they compare what they wrote with the real article, and if there's time, we discuss those similarities and differences as a group.

I intended to use Open All Hours sometime soon, and that's why I was looking up the articles, and why I was dismayed to see the poor quality of them - but in no way do I criticise user fernandogoaz for this. It just seems a bit strange that the articles have been up for about six months but nothing substantially has been done to improve them.

In my line of work I often get asked to do proof reading and I'm finding that an increasing part of my workload is editing, correcting and improving, so I like to think I have a bit of a gift for it.

So, against my better judgement, I registered and signed in for the first time this afternoon and spent a few hours editing 4 or 5 articles. When I came back to them a little bit later, I found that they had all been deleted for "notability" reasons by user TTN.

This is my real gripe and reason for writing to the administrators. What gives user TTN the right to delete articles?? How does he/she know that these articles are of no use to other people in the world? Surely the whole point of Wiki is to increase and build on the amount of articles.

I really must protest about user TTN's actions which seem to have been done with no discussion with anyone else. Also, when I investigated further, it seems that this person has been doing other similar things all over Wiki.

How can I restore the undeleted pages?

Thank you.

Roses2at (talk) 00:57, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Not really an admin issue, advised at talk page --Rodhullandemu (Talk) 01:03, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Discussed elsewhere at AN/I in fact. All the articles in question failed WP:FICT. Redirection was clearly in order. I have reverted Roses2at's undos. Eusebeus (talk) 01:55, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

My question to you Eusebeus is why do you decide now that these articles fail WP:FICT? Those particular pages have been up for six months with many other edits in the meantime but they still do not meet basic quality of English standards (surely much more important than whether they are notable or not?). Do you feel no remorse for wasting other people's time??????? Roses2at (talk) 15:07, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

• It certainly would have helped to have some references so uninvolved editors could reach an informed overview. There is too much groping around in the dark going on here, and although it may be OK when you're a teenager, there does come a time when reliable information, or any information at all, helps. --Rodhullandemu (Talk) 02:01, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Dear Roses2at, as you are familiar with the topic and (very funny) show, individual episodes may be recreated if 3rd party sources note them as significant. Given the standard and high esteem much of Ronnie Barker's work is held, this may not actually be too hard. I urge you if you do have 3rd party refs (books etc. which highlight individual episodes, then these can be recreated from the article history then. I myself have been trying to add reference material from what I have at home - the shame is there is a huge amount out there which unfortunately cannot be accessed readily by sitting in front of a keyboard (and its 35C and stinking humid here which is a powerful disincentive for me to try) - thus to maintain a collaborative and constructive approach, finding material is great. If you need a hand at the time for deleted material, there are a number of admins who have offered to retrieve deleted material. cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 02:16, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

You just beat me to this. Most of TTN's redirects involve episode articles which haven't a chance of ever being notable enough for their own articles, and are thus correct; but these (while they weren't at the moment) might just have. There *must* be enough Barker related material to source some of these, in print if not online. BLACKKITE 02:24, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Perhaps someone can let me know by private e-mail if and when this issue is resolved becasue I can't be bothered to fight for the notability issue myself. My personal opinion is that single episodes of a series warrant their own page (especially in this case concerning Ronnie Barker's work) and I don't see the necessity to "source" them.

If it's finally decided to allow them, I will be more than happy to volunteer to proof-read, edit and bring them up to an acceptable standard of English. Frankly, it p**s*s me off that other people like User:TTN and User:Eusebeus are allowed to delete or redirect other people's hard work.

Roses2at (talk) 14:58, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

• Dear Roses2at, maybe you know this already, but if you want you can still find copies of the work you did, in the page histories. For example, to find your version of A Matress on Wheels, click on the link I just gave, or type "A Matress on Wheels" into the search box and click "go". It will redirect you to a section of the page "Open All Hours". Scroll up to the top of the page, and in tiny letters just under the title of the page you will see a blue link "Redirected from A Matress on Wheels". Click on that link, and you will see a redirect page (a page with just an arrow pointing to Open All Hours). When looking at the redirect page, click "history" at the top of the page. You will see a list of versions of the page. Choose a version you're interested in, for example the last version by yourself. Click on the date of the version and you will see the text of that version of the page. Another way to find the versions of these pages that you fixed is by using your user contribution list, which you get to by clicking on "my contributions" at the top of the page. --Coppertwig (talk) 17:19, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
  • Thank you Coppertwig, for your concern about my disppointing experience. But the point is I want my students (and of course many others) to find these pages quickly and easily without faffing around. Because even the title of that particular article has been spelt incorrectly (I didn't figure out how to change that) and it's important that non-native speakers looking at these pages are not misled about spelling, grammar, vocab and sentence structure. I'll wait a little while before getting involved again. Roses2at (talk) 17:49, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
    • Whilst you are waiting, please read our Wikipedia:Verifiability and Wikipedia:No original research policies, as well as User:Uncle G/On sources and content, to learn why sourcing is a necessity here at Wikipedia. Uncle G (talk) 03:56, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Update

I thought these had been already through an AfD debate, but they haven't. Thus, the correct procedure to allow time for adequate sourcing is to individually place the articles at AfD by those concerned and each will be debated on its merit. This is most conducive to 'pedia building as it allows a larger forum rather than deletions and removals of redlinks to hide evidence of their existence. cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 20:38, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

• Incorrect. For starters, the articles were not deleted. They were, as said above, redirected. Please familiarize yourself with wiki editing basics and the distinctions between redirection and deletion. AFD is not a forum for discussing whether articles should be redirected or not. The fora for that are article talk pages. Please familiarize yourself with Wikipedia:Deletion policy and the Wikipedia:Guide to deletion. Do not take articles to AFD where an administrator hitting a delete button is not what you want. Article merger and article redirection do not involve deletion, or AFD, at any stage of the process. Uncle G (talk) 03:56, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Request from Jimbo to monitor page from User_talk:Jimbo Wales

Jimbo has blanked his user and talk pages and replaced them with a message that he would like protected from vandalism. Both pages are protected, but the talk page links to a third page for statements from editors in support of his talk page message. Since it is by nature unprotected, his talk page asks that admins monitor it for vandalism and semi-protect or protect it as needed. Just FYI. ^Avruchtalk 03:36, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Jew york

I've just blanked this redirect to New York. Please delete and salt. Other gems from the editor who created this include Hey! Unprotect this page so I can redirect it to obesity. --Chinese3126 (talk) 18:19, 12 January 2008 (UTC) at Talk:Fat ass[6] and Talk:Fatass.[7] Please address the behavior problem appropriately. Durova^Charge! 04:43, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Taken care of the page above, let me go hunting down the rest of his.. contributions. SirFozzie (talk) 04:44, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

I tend to believe this is Liist (talk · contribs)

Old warning.

- Jaakobou^{Chalk Talk} 04:51, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

I've blocked him 24 hours, I've come across at least one article I think is hoaxy, and lots of unlikely New York redirects. If someone wants to make it indef, go ahead. SirFozzie (talk) 04:55, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Zeraeph

Zeraeph, who exercised her right to vanish when the arbcom against her was not going so well, is nw disrupting the proceedings by postingz attacks against one editor as an anon Ip, though she is signing it as Zeraeph. One page of the arbcom has been protected, could somebody please semi-protect the rest as well as blocking the IPs she is using? Thanks. And I won't say I told you so. Jeffpw (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 16:23, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

No more fires, please; I think ArbCom members are probably working on this. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 16:33, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Sandy's right, as Fred Bauder is involved he's in a position to resolve this better than administrators will. east.718 at 20:04, January 13, 2008

Bunch of CSDs needing more experienced admin

Could an admin with more experience than I look at CAT:CSD, specifically the numerous articles up for speedy regarding motorcycle races? They all seem like legitimate redirects, and I can't for the life of me figger out what is going on there, or what should be done? Perhaps there are pages that need moving back? I am inclined to deny them all, as they are all valid redirects, and there is no need to delete, but maybe the motorbike racing wikiproject is doing some general cleanup and needs some help? It would be cool if someone else could check this out... --Jayron32|talk|contribs 19:26, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

According to the history of one, they have fixed the capitalization from "Round" to "round". However, there is no need for deleting, you can categorize the redirects with {{R from other capitalisation}}. -- ReyBrujo (talk) 19:33, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

That's what I thought, but I wanted a second opinion. I will go that route...--Jayron32|talk|contribs 19:34, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Independent admin please Image:1982-sapporo-turbo.jpg & Image:1976_Sapporo_2000_GSR.jpg

I'm asking for an non-involved admin to look at Wikipedia:Possibly unfree images/2007 December 17 regarding these two images. There has been more than adequate time for the uploader to request the OTRS for this, which clearly hasn't been done as of yet. As there's no proof of the OTRS, I'm going to ask for their deletion. However, for transparency and not to appear vindictive (I have deleted prior versions of these), I'm asking for a non-involved opinion on these. SkierRMH (talk) 20:23, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Ah, this is an unfortunate case. The uploader clearly does not understand copyright (believing that, since the images don't say clearly "(C) Colt" on them, they're not copyright) and clearly has had some form of communication with the copyright holder, who (AGF that it's a cut-and-paste of a real email) is happy for them to be used non-commercially, but less sure about the other uses they can be put to. The uploader might actually have a very good FU case for these images. But, no, as it stands, these images are copyrightable and are copyrighted, permission has not been received to Wikipedia standards, and what permission is asserted is for non-commercial use which is incompatible with the GFDL and the licence declared for the images themselves. So deleted away. No evidence of vindictiveness (in fact, quite the reverse) from having previously deleted similar/the same images. ➔ REDVEЯS is standing in the dark 21:00, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

It would be a lot easier to call up or email the press officer whose details are found on the image page. Has anyone tried that? - hahnchen 23:56, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

User:Cculber007

Grrr. Okay. Above user made a personal attack against User:Tenebrae.[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Tenebrae&diff=prev&oldid=183499998 User:Tenebrae posted about this comment a couple of places which led to a couple of us chasing after this one. See WP:ANI#Long-term WP:AGF and WP:NPA abuse. Now I've got a message from User:Cculber007 on my talk page telling, me I'm not allowed to post to his talk page and calling me unwise and accusing me of making threats. I really want to block this user now, but obviously I can't. Someone else please look into this user and sort out something. I'm going back to putting my head in the sand. Or to start that discussion about deprecating WP:CIV and WP:AGF I keep threatening. Hiding T 22:45, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

A small backlog at Wikipedia:User categories for discussion

There's a few discussions need closing out at Wikipedia:User categories for discussion, but most of the admins regular to the page have been involved in the discussion, and the regular closer is on wiki break. If a few admins not involved in the debates feel like closing them, it would be appreciated. Guidance on closing is offered at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Working/User. Ta. Hiding T 22:51, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Sockpuppet IP

Coming from here, those IPs maybe related, or the editor may have access to each. Check history of the page in question, vandalism is immediately after another. Remember, I'm coming here on a recommendation from RPP. Thank you for your time, Compwhiz II^(Talk)_(Contribs) 01:38, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

To clarify, I more or less referred the user to AN or ANI. The userpage User:WesleyDodds is currently under attack. Two IPs have been blocked for vandalising the userpage, one for 24 hours and one for 31 hours. They may come back to Wesley's userpage when the block expires, or the vandal(s) may return from another IP address. Semi-protection was requested for the userpage, but since this involves probably one vandal, admin action against the vandalising IP addresses might me more appropriate. Aecis^Brievenbus 01:48, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Time

Maybe I'm just slow and everyone will be sniggering about me behind my back, but I've just found, under My Preferences > Gadgets, an option to put the time in the personal toolbar, which I found useful as I'm not sitting in UTC, and can never do the 24 hour clock math when trying to work out if someone has violated 3RR! --Stephen 04:15, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Gadgets are relatively new. I keep to UTC on Wikipedia – easier that way for talk page purposes (also when I used to do a lot of {{unsigned}} work). All I have to remember is that the day starts at 4 PM my time. hbdragon88 (talk) 05:01, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

HELP ME

My wiki-account name is markcambrone... for some reason I can't sign in... I can sign in on the Danny Phantom wikia but not here, it keeps saying I have the wrong password and I know didn't cange it! 71.118.167.20 (talk) 04:23, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Unfortunately, User:Markcambrone has no email set, you won't be able to have a new password emailed. As there is no way of verifying you are who you say you are there is not a lot more that can be done, short of you remembering your password (or taking off CAPS LOCK.) --119.11.7.7 (talk) 04:28, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

According to the Wikimedia privacy policy, "If you do not provide an email address, you will not be able to reset your password if you forget it. However, you may contact one of the Wikimedia server administrators to enter a new mail address in your preferences.". DuncanHill (talk) 04:30, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Mmm, how can the devs know it's the same person? -- lucasbfr ^talk 12:02, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

IP check, maybe? - Rjd0060 (talk) 15:44, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

The IP is dynamic, the last time the user logged into Wikipedia the IP could have been different. Rgoodermote  18:00, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Possible edit war/content dispute over Panimalar Engineering College

I came across this at the help desk. Rather than simply say "you don't 'own' the page", I took a look at the article's edit history. It looks like a little edit war is going on between User:Shatheeshl and User:Naren87 with a few IPs getting in on the action. For both editors, their major/only contributions have been to the Panimalar Engineering College article. Shatheeshl prefers that the article contained the college's "vision statement", fawning biographies of leading staff members and a list glowing achievements. On the other hand, Naren87 prefers that the article contained a POV demolition piece detailing how the college allegedly breaches Indian law, defrauds the students, and so on. Neither editor cites any references to support their version.

In my opinion, although the college itself may be notable, neither version of the article is suitable for Wikipedia. Could someone take a look and decide if one or both editors should be warned/blocked, and if the article should be protected, reverted to a much earlier version or just deleted. Astronaut (talk) 04:47, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

The article is one huge NPOV-violating, unsourced beast. I might suggest undoing the whole thing, making it a stub and having a new article be developed. Bstone (talk) 06:24, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

I've stubbed it to a neutral version, but won't mind if it gets deleted. As I'm a bit involved in the content now I would be grateful if other admins could watchlist it to hand out the blocks. There are editors on that article who have a serious misunderstanding of what Wikipedia is about. -- zzuuzz ^(talk) 11:27, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Block review, plz

I just came across Moreair15 (talk · contribs) after seeing someone who vandalized a school page posting to the editor's user page; the page looked like quite an impressive blatant attack page, and has for quite some time. A look through the user's contribs turned up absolutely no productive edits and quite a lot of vandalism; in fact, relatively early in the editor's career, I left a warning myself. Thus, I applied an indefinite block that I think is probably well earned, but I'd like a second opinion, being relatively new with the magic extra buttons. Anyone have thoughts on the matter, please? Thanks. Tony Fox (arf!) 04:54, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Looks like a reasonable block to me. The kid was warned, and yet he continued to vandalize. I didn't see any productive edits from him, and I doubt he ever had any intentions of legitimate edits. --Elkman ^(Elkspeak) 04:58, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

User requests second block review

See User talk:Shojaijekhi. It was his third block, and this time it was indefinite. I denied his request for an unblock, and he asked that it be re-reviewed, and asked for a shorter term block. Could someone check it over and respond to his request. Since I made my decision, I feel like it would be inappropriate for me to do this again... --Jayron32|talk|contribs 06:36, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Keep him blocked, and forever block any obvious re-creations. I would never support an indefinite block for the third occasion of breaking the 3RR rule, say, but for the sake of the project we must not tolerate the harassment of users like this. Cool Hand Luke 06:41, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for handling that. --Jayron32|talk|contribs 06:52, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Zeraeph

This arbitration has been closed and the final decision is available at the link above. The case was renamed upon closing from "Zeraeph-SandyGeorgia" to "Zeraeph". User:Zeraeph, including any socks and future accounts, is banned from Wikipedia for one year. — Rlevse • Talk • 14:21, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

User:Joeydq

I have emailed this user because he is a minor and has put personal information on his user page. I leave it to someone more experienced to decide whether this needs immediate attention. --Rodhullandemu (Talk) 18:17, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Silence as consensus

Have created and new essay: Wikipedia:Silence as consensus _→AzaToth 19:15, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Block of Jehochman by Archtransit

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

Resolved

 – Lessons learned by all. Jehochman ^Talk 21:10, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

I appreciate that Jehochman has chosen not to bring this to WP:AN or AN/I himself, but I think this situation could benefit from significantly wider review. In my opinion, this is the type of admin action we should absolutely be trying to avoid. While dispute resolution is apparently not in the offing over this situation, it certainly could have resulted. Since Archtransit has not acknowledged the controversial and irresponsible nature of his block, I would ask that this action receive a greater degree of attention. If other admins agree with the opinions expressed on Archtransit's talkpage, it should be reinforced to him with great clarity that future actions of this type are inappropriate (particularly for someone with a 4 day old admin bit).

Relevant links:

[8]

[9]

[10]

[11]

[12]

[13] —Preceding unsigned comment added by Avruch (talk • contribs) 19:57, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

^Avruchtalk 19:20, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

He actually has acknowledged things. This is a new admin, 4 days with the tools, who got a little over exuberant. For the sake of peace, I recommend swiftly archiving or deleting this thread. Jehochman ^Talk 19:22, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

From my reading of what he has written in response, he has not acknowledged a mistake nor said anything that would lead me to believe he would not take such an action again based on the same reasoning. Therefore, I'd like to see some additional outside opinion on this issue. ^Avruchtalk 19:24, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

A number of adminsitrators are giving Archtransit advice on where he erred in making this block. I don't think there is a need for a noticeboard discussion of the matter at this stage. WjBscribe 19:29, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Agreed. Lets not turn this into more than it is. Mistakes were made, and should be learned from. Only if they are made again by the same people then we could have a problem. Rockpocket 19:31, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

In order to learn from a mistake, one must acknowledge that a mistake has been made. Has that happened here? If so, I won't object to closing the thread. ^Avruchtalk 19:33, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

ArchTransit is a new admin; barely 4 days in all. We should cut him/her a lot of slack here. The same admin left decidedly bad-faith, patronizing comments on my talk page this morning, as it happens but I didn't take it personally. They've obviously plenty to learn & should be given the room here - Alison ^❤ 19:43, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Failure of adminstrators to follow policy is not to be encouraged. This is my view and it has not changed. Allegations of a cabal by editors when they point out inconsistent treatment of policy violations by editors versus administrators is something that I never want to be accused of. This is my view and it has not changed. Discussing matters is my view and that has not changed. Having more discussion rather than discussing it at 17:14 and blocking at 18:06 is the lesson learned. I am prone to too much discussion than not enough, but have to be aware that I shouldn't try to overcompensate and make discussion too short. It's a balance. Archtransit (talk) 20:24, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

That does not make me feel any better about your block of Jehochman. I, for one, would like a straight answer: Do you feel your block was appropriate or not? — Satori Son 20:40, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Grossly poor block by Archtransit, but I hope he takes the lesson here and realizes that blocks, especially of longtime editors in good standing, should not be used lightly. I am a bit concerned by his unapologetic attitude above - many times, when experienced admins chooses to apply a bit of IAR, they are doing so for a very good reason, which may not be apparent unless you ask the other fellow about it. henrik•talk 20:37, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Well I wouldn't say Archtransit's statement was unapologetic as much as it was entirely incoherent. --MZMcBride (talk) 20:43, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Let me wipe the beer foam from my mouth first...

In retrospect, I should have allowed for more discussion which could have very well changed the situation and not resulted in a block. Further speculation isn't productive (would Jehochman have stonewalled? Given an explanation? Insisted that he doesn't have to follow policy? Other possibilities?) Archtransit (talk) 20:57, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

• Where is my Sysop Issue skin thinning/protective cloak? Jeepers, folks, we block and sanction other contributors all the time and once in a while we make a mistake; and it should be no different if the dropped brick hits an admin rather than just another editor. We learn (and not all learning is instant!), and we try to remember to try not to make the same mistake again. Let's move on, please. LessHeard vanU (talk) 20:54, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

I cannot say why others may be unhappy with this block, but please let me assure you that, for me, it has nothing to do with Jehochman being an administrator.

As far as moving on, I would feel much more comfortable doing so if Archtransit admitted the block was not necessary and states clearly that they are not likely to do the same thing in the future. Such a request on my part is not unreasonable, do you think? — Satori Son 21:01, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

I guess the above is as good as we're going to get. I'm satisfied for now. — Satori Son 21:05, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

I don't mind being hit on the head with a brick once in a while. I've dropped a few myself, so fair is fair. Now, let's drop the stick and back away from the horse. Jehochman ^Talk 21:10, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Archived - ^Avruchtalk 21:12, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

I'm sorry that people are unhappy. I will try to make people happier in the future. This block obviously doesn't make some people happy. It was originally done in good faith to try to observe official Wikipedia policy. Although I see no violation of policy by me, I do see that people are unhappy, which makes me unhappy. Archtransit (talk) 21:17, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Dbachmann

This arbitration case has now closed and the decision may be found at the link above. Dbachmann is reminded to avoid using his administrative tools in editorial disputes in which he is personally involved, and to avoid misusing the administrative rollback tool for content reversions. Afrocentrism and Race of ancient Egyptians are placed on article probation. For the arbitration committee, David Mestel^(Talk) 20:12, 14 January 2008 (UTC)