*'''Press Release''' the comments above that this is getting worldwide coverage are not very helpful. The worldwide coverage consists of 'stories' based on AP reports and photos available from prior press releases for highly marketed but not critically respected movies. It is almost like a character from Grand Theft Auto 'died'. [[User:Medeis|μηδείς]] ([[User talk:Medeis|talk]]) 18:39, 1 December 2013 (UTC)
*'''Press Release''' the comments above that this is getting worldwide coverage are not very helpful. The worldwide coverage consists of 'stories' based on AP reports and photos available from prior press releases for highly marketed but not critically respected movies. It is almost like a character from Grand Theft Auto 'died'. [[User:Medeis|μηδείς]] ([[User talk:Medeis|talk]]) 18:39, 1 December 2013 (UTC)
**Sorry, that's rubbish. Major independent news outlets are publishing this story. Try again. [[User:The Rambling Man|The Rambling Man]] ([[User talk:The Rambling Man|talk]]) 20:44, 1 December 2013 (UTC)
**Sorry, that's rubbish. Major independent news outlets are publishing this story. Try again. [[User:The Rambling Man|The Rambling Man]] ([[User talk:The Rambling Man|talk]]) 20:44, 1 December 2013 (UTC)
**The sloppy use of "''worldwide''" in this discussion isn't helpful. And if this guy had died of something boring like, say, kidney failure, this would be making far less news. It's only heading to RD if anywhere, so cause of death shouldn't matter, but it's "big" news because it was a car smash. Some objectivity here, please. [[User:HiLo48|HiLo48]] ([[User talk:HiLo48|talk]]) 20:48, 1 December 2013 (UTC)
***The sloppy use of "''worldwide''" in this discussion isn't helpful. And if this guy had died of something boring like, say, kidney failure, this would be making far less news. It's only heading to RD if anywhere, so cause of death shouldn't matter, but it's "big" news because it was a car smash. Some objectivity here, please. [[User:HiLo48|HiLo48]] ([[User talk:HiLo48|talk]]) 20:48, 1 December 2013 (UTC)
*'''Support''' but only per the [[Cory Monteith]] precedent. '''[[User:Spencer|<span style="color:#082567">Spencer</span>]]'''<sup>[[User talk:Spencer|<span style="color:#FFBF00">T♦</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Spencer|<span style="color:#FFBF00">C</span>]]</sup> 20:00, 1 December 2013 (UTC)
*'''Support''' but only per the [[Cory Monteith]] precedent. '''[[User:Spencer|<span style="color:#082567">Spencer</span>]]'''<sup>[[User talk:Spencer|<span style="color:#FFBF00">T♦</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Spencer|<span style="color:#FFBF00">C</span>]]</sup> 20:00, 1 December 2013 (UTC)
*'''Support''' per Spencer, the precedent has been set. [[User:The Rambling Man|The Rambling Man]] ([[User talk:The Rambling Man|talk]]) 20:31, 1 December 2013 (UTC)
*'''Support''' per Spencer, the precedent has been set. [[User:The Rambling Man|The Rambling Man]] ([[User talk:The Rambling Man|talk]]) 20:31, 1 December 2013 (UTC)
This candidates page is integrated with the daily pages of Portal:Current events. A light green header appears under each daily section - it includes transcluded Portal:Current events items for that day. You can discuss ITN candidates under the header.
Blurbs are one-sentence summaries of the news story.
Altblurbs, labelled alt1, alt2, etc., are alternative suggestions to cover the same story.
A target article, bolded in text, is the focus of the story. Each blurb must have at least one such article, but you may also link non-target articles.
Articles in the Ongoing line describe events getting continuous coverage.
The Recent deaths (RD) line includes any living thing whose death was recently announced. Consensus may decide to create a blurb for a recent death.
All articles linked in the ITN template must pass our standards of review. They should be up-to-date, demonstrate relevance via good sourcing and have at least an acceptable quality.
Nomination steps
Make sure the item you want to nominate has an article that meets our minimum requirements and contains reliable coverage of a current event you want to create a blurb about. We will not post about events described in an article that fails our quality standards.
Find the correct section below for the date of the event (not the date nominated). Do not add sections for new dates manually - a bot does that for us each day at midnight (UTC).
Create a level 4 header with the article name (==== Your article here ====). Add (RD) or (Ongoing) if appropriate.
Then paste the {{ITN candidate}} template with its parameters and fill them in. The news source should be reliable, support your nomination and be in the article. Write your blurb in simple present tense. Below the template, briefly explain why we should post that event. After that, save your edit. Your nomination is ready!
You may add {{ITN note}} to the target article's talk page to let editors know about your nomination.
The better your article's quality, the better it covers the event and the wider its perceived significance (see WP:ITNSIGNIF for details), the better your chances of getting the blurb posted.
When the article is ready, updated and there is consensus to post, you can mark the item as (Ready). Remove that wording if you feel the article fails any of these necessary criteria.
Admins should always separately verify whether these criteria are met before posting blurbs marked (Ready). For more guidance, check WP:ITN/A.
If satisfied, change the header to (Posted).
Where there is no consensus, or the article's quality remains poor, change the header to (Closed) or (Not posted).
Sometimes, editors ask to retract an already-posted nomination because of a fundamental error or because consensus changed. If you feel the community supports this, remove the item and mark the item as (Pulled).
Voicing an opinion on an item
Format your comment to contain "support" or "oppose", and include a rationale for your choice. In particular, address the notability of the event, the quality of the article, and whether it has been updated.
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Oppose an item just because the event is only relating to a single country, or failing to relate to one. We post a lot of such content, so these comments are generally unproductive.
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Comment on a story without first reading the relevant article(s).
Assem Allam, the Egyptian-born businessman and owner of Premier League club Hull City, tells the club's fans, whom he refers to as "hooligans", that they can "die as soon as they want" following protests against his plans to rename the club Hull Tigers. (ITV News)(Daily Mail)
Nah. If four deaths is approximately near the total fatalities, I don't see this as significant enough; especially as it doesn't seem to have happened under very particular og extraordinary circumstances. Iselilja (talk) 15:21, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose this is very close to home for me, but in the scope of things, 4 dead in a transportation accident is...four dead in a transportation accident. Unless something more notable develops, like evidence of criminal activity, it is just a very local local news story. μηδείς (talk) 16:19, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
As it stands i would say wait, its a train crash with 4 deaths which is not uncommon as we all know. If something more comes out of it then we will look at it -- Ashish-g5516:55, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Would be interesting on comparing how people voted on this that killed 4 and injured 63 vs. the Scottish pub helicopter that killed 8 and injured 32... –HTD18:25, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
So, which of the five nom/commenting editors above you do you mean to insult by that implication, Howard? Get back to us when you've posted a study on the hypocrisy here in your user space. μηδείς (talk) 18:45, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Small incident in the overall scheme of transport accidents. And if this ever does go any further, please change the location in the blurb to New York, rather than just a suburb. That's a perfect example of our systemic bias. HiLo48 (talk) 20:38, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: Not sure about the blurb. The seizure of government buildings have been serially occurring since last Monday. Yesterday four people died as a result of fighting between anti- and pro-government groups, and today has seen (so far) non-violent clashes between protesters and the police.[1] Either should probably be mentioned in the blurb. A body has also been discovered in a bus fire near a pro-government protest site, though the details on this are still unclear.[2] Also, thanks to Brandmeister for helping update the article (though I don't necessarily agree with the "protesting correctly" comment). --Paul_012 (talk) 14:00, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support, but prefer different blurb. Suggest something along the lines of
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Oppose I agree with Medeis here. I think it would be difficult to argue that he was widely regarded as a very important figure in his field. He was hardly in the top rank of actors, either in terms of acclaim or of fame. Neljack (talk) 04:59, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support Wide news coverage worldwide. The actor was in the middle of filming Fast & Furious 7, while Fast & Furious 6 has just been released. And as is always the case when an actor passes away, TV stations worldwide end up broadcasting tons of films in tribute. WesMᴥuse05:30, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support. I can't say how it's hitting news media in China, but the death sure made it to [Chinese], not forgetting [Spanish]. Anyway, who says [English] is world-wiki? It's the page for speakers and readers of English and need only reflect the broad interests of those people.Ridiculus mus (talk) 07:51, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
To flesh out remarks by Wes, F&F 4 was a big hit worldwide: "As of 27 July 2011 the film had grossed a total of $155,064,265 in the United States and $363,164,265 worldwide (making it the third most successful film in the franchise behind Fast & Furious 6 and Fast Five) and is the fourth highest-grossing film in the car genre, behind Fast & Furious 6, Fast Five and Cars". Ridiculus mus (talk) 08:03, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose A big celebrity but far from a leader in the field; his death would have gotten significant news coverage but its being more on the irony of his death that is being used to propagate the story. --MASEM (t) 05:51, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support. My first reaction was no. But then I remember we posted Cory Monteith, who was famous for a single American television show, so fair is fair. Those shitty racing movies have done a lot of worldwide box office. Gamaliel (talk) 06:30, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
According to WP:ITND a death article needs to meet one of the 3 criterion. 1: The deceased was in a high-ranking office of power at the time of death and/or had a significant contribution/impact on the country/region? No. 2: The deceased was widely regarded as a very important figure in his or her field? Debatable. What one sees as an important figure, may not be see by another as such importance. 3: The death has a major international impact that affects current events. The modification or creation of multiple articles to take into account the ramifications of a death is a sign that it meets the third criterion? Questionable. The actor was in the middle of filming 'Fast 7', and also starred in 'Fast 6' which has only just been released worldwide. His death will in fact have some impact on the filming of 'Fast 7' as he is no longer alive. So of the 3 criteria, 1 has failed, but 2 are 50/50 depending on which side of the coin you wish to view. Although wouldn't this get mentioned in the deaths section anyway? If so, then I would reconsider my "support!" option. WesMᴥuse07:50, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Never been given any awards for acting? Ha, for real? So the 5 he won between 2000 - 2003 are not awards for acting are they? I must have dreamt him receiving those then. WesMᴥuse09:13, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
If he has an article here, it's "encyclopedic". If you don't feel he should have an article here, then propose its deletion. The point of ITN is to highlight articles about events that are in the news. 331dot (talk) 10:34, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
It's not my "take", it's what ITN is for. (From the WP:ITN page: The In the news (ITN) section on the main page serves to direct readers to articles that have been substantially updated to reflect recent or current events of wide interest.) I further was not proposing a new article, the suggested article is Walker's article. 331dot (talk) 10:48, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support. This is the top headline story on NBC News and near the top on CNN, and also being mentioned in media around the world(France, Spain, China, India, even Sri Lanka). Part of the role of ITN is to highlight articles about events that are in the news, which this clearly is. It isn't for us to judge the reasons that media gives coverage to an event- but it is for us to help readers find information. I never watched a F and F movie and did not hear of this man- until I saw this nomination and viewed the article. That should be what we want for most articles. 331dot (talk) 10:34, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
OpposeI am torned about this one, on one side he has done some huge films but on the other side he was never a "academy award winning actor" or if to be honest a truly outstanding actor within is genre. I think this unfortunatly is a case of Americanism. I have to oppose this one.--BabbaQ (talk) 10:52, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
This is not just being covered in America, but around the world. Even if it is "Americanism", objections relating to an event being from a single country are not valid. 331dot (talk) 11:07, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for your input, but you are in my opinion wrong if you claim that if Paul had been Swedish this would have been place at ITN. It is Americanised-centrism. Anyway, sad case.--BabbaQ (talk) 11:21, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Is the Swedish movie industry on par with the Hollywood movie industry? It's not America's fault that Hollywood is in America, or that its movie industry gets more attention than others. It's the people's fault(for watching American movies). 331dot (talk) 11:26, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support Whether you like it or not, Walker has become a pretty big deal. He is the primary star of a multi-billion-dollar media franchise, and not just in America. I think it deserves listing in RD. This is from someone who is not an F&F fan. --Kitch(Talk : Contrib)10:58, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support. Unquestionably in the news, and his death will have a significant impact on a major Hollywood film currently production so imho criteria 3 is met. Thryduulf (talk) 11:19, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
That's not what's meant by "a major international impact that affects current events". Page says that the film is in post, which would mean he finished filming his scenes. It's a movie sequel, not an international peace conference, or what have you. – Muboshgu (talk) 16:26, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support the problem with the film industry is that it is basically impossible to agree on whether 90% of actors are "important figures in their field." He might not be Jack Nicholson, but he was the star of a blockbuster film series and definitely died in an unexpected fashion. --PlasmaTwa214:06, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not going to oppose or support but I will side with the argument that he's not 'important in his field'. There are simply too many actors who were stars of a reasonably popular tv/movie series of a similar prominance to Walker. The argument for posting surely hinges on the early unexpected death (and this has long been considered a factor for deaths at ITN) and the impact his death will have on upcoming films.--Johnsemlak (talk) 15:21, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I wanna use the Walt Bellamy/Bill Sharman argument I used: he's not even the most famous actor from the series, but unlike those two whose news of their respective deaths were very largely confined to NBA media, Walker's death was covered in mainstream media in several other countries. So to deny that this isn't "news" (YADDA YADDA WE'RE NOT A NEWS SERVICE) is like denying UCI Road World Championships is news in the mainstream media. With that said, this is NOT your textbook RD. RD wasn't made for people who weren't anyone that isn't one of the three criteria -- Walker wasn't -- so RD's out of the question in this case. –HTD15:59, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose as not noteworthy and encyclopedic enough, especially as the death of internationally acclaimed director Nagisa Oshima wasn't posted. If an actor that died yesterday was to be featured on RD, Jean Kent is the better candidate. Prolog (talk) 16:14, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support for RD. I am with 331 on this one.. calling it unencyclopedic doesnt make sense since it has an article which i dont think is up for deletion. Is it in the news? Yes. The death was unexpected as well. He is well known actor too. Nobody is saying put a blurb but for RD this should be good to go -- Ashish-g5516:47, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Press Release the comments above that this is getting worldwide coverage are not very helpful. The worldwide coverage consists of 'stories' based on AP reports and photos available from prior press releases for highly marketed but not critically respected movies. It is almost like a character from Grand Theft Auto 'died'. μηδείς (talk) 18:39, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The sloppy use of "worldwide" in this discussion isn't helpful. And if this guy had died of something boring like, say, kidney failure, this would be making far less news. It's only heading to RD if anywhere, so cause of death shouldn't matter, but it's "big" news because it was a car smash. Some objectivity here, please. HiLo48 (talk) 20:48, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Because you are involved in this discussion and have expressed your support for this nomination, I have pulled this for now. It should be left to an uninvolved administrator to judge consensus. --Bongwarrior (talk) 21:09, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
(ec) I concede TRM has been involved with this nomination(obviously), but recently there has been a shortage of admins around(or at least uninvolved admins) to post things. 331dot (talk) 21:18, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict)Rambler - That's a bad faith posting, coming immediately after failing to understand that a post of mine was a response to one of yours. You should not have re-indented mine AND posted this in the same action. You took a guess, and were wrong. That invalidates the posting! And are you trying to be pointy with the Glee reference? Do you care at all about our systemic bias? Do we all now just run with the Glee precedent for deciding all future nominations? HiLo48 (talk) 21:17, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Tabu Ley was an extremely culturally influential musician and one of the last figures from the "Glory Days" of African Rumba (itself a major genre) in the 1950s and 60s. He was dubbed the "King of Congolese Rumba" and was probably one of the leading figures in the Democratic Republic of Congo. His music was amazingly popular in (particularly Francophone) Africa, and was also known internationally. His death is currently circulating on all African news outlets as a major event, with his state funeral planned soon. --Brigade Piron (talk) 00:25, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I might could support this, but the article needs a little work. The worst part is it lacks a list of works and awards. It is hard to make a judgment just because someone is prolific. μηδείς (talk) 01:51, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not so sure that lists of works and awards are good - a lot of articles about popular musicians become bloated with them. And if you want evidence that he was more than just prolific, have a look at this article.[3] He played a major role in popularising Congolese rumba and was huge throughout Africa. Neljack (talk) 02:03, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
You misunderstand me, μηδείς. All I was saying was that lists are not necessarily the best way to cover awards and works. Certainly any important awards and works should be covered in the article. And the articles does refer to some of his songs, as well as containing a short list of awards, though I agree that it still needs more work. Neljack (talk) 04:51, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I'd also just say that music "Awards" are primarily awarded in Europe and the US. Not in Africa, and certainly not in the DRC. He does have medals, if that helps? Brigade Piron (talk) 10:01, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support Should be a no-brainer for Recent Deaths - he was clearly a very important figure in his field. One of Africa's most popular and celebrated musicians. Neljack (talk) 01:56, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Based on what evidence, Neljack? It's not in the article, and you've just said such evidence is not even necessary or a good thing to have. μηδείς (talk) 04:30, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
As I have explained above, I haven't said that. Regarding the evidence, please see the AFP story I linked to above and other news stories. Neljack (talk) 04:54, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
As I said, I don't oppose this per se. I just think the above cited material should be added to the article, per the ITN guidelines and as good wikipediing. μηδείς (talk) 19:08, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Six people are killed in Lebanon's northern city of Tripoli on Saturday in exchanges of fire between neighborhoods which support rival sides in Syria's civil war. (Reuters)
Article:MNLA (talk·history·tag) Blurb: Following protests over the visit of Malian Prime Minister Oumar Tatam Ly, the MNLA declares an end to the ceasefire and that it would be militarize. (Post) News source(s):[4] Credits:
Nominator's comments: After a long-running conflict and intervention a ceasefire was signed, and now it looks like war will return. As a note, we posted FARC's ceasefire talks, here there is a result. The ABOLISHMENT of the agreement. --Lihaas (talk) 20:45, 30 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
comment yes I agree the blurb sux and I was struggling with it too. Any alternative suggestions? That's what we can cdo instead of merely complaining..Lihaas (talk) 02:47, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Opppose as it stands. Seriously? One sentence? Someone needs to spank Lihaas for dishonestly claiming this article is updated. He's been here long enough to know such crap is beyond the bounds of good faith. μηδείς (talk) 19:04, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Well it weas 2 sentences originally and more of an update then plenty of stuff we post (sports for eg). Anyways, you dint give a reason for support/oppose. You coiuld then just add "pending further update".Lihaas (talk) 20:23, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Weak oppose. Many countries did not participate in this contest according to the article, so I would have to wonder if this has the level of importance and/or prestige to be posted. I realize the adult contest is ITNR but this one doesn't seem to be at that level, though I am willing to be persuaded otherwise. 331dot (talk) 23:15, 30 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Where is this related DYK item, as I cannot find anything recent connected to Junior Eurovision. I understand that this contest relatively small compared to its senior counterpart. But from what I gather this is the first time Malta has won any EBU organized contest (whether it be Eurovision or Junior). Perhaps submitting a DYK for this fact would be a better option then a ITN segment? WesMᴥuse01:23, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support - I was undecided on this. But with some thought, I think we should allow our future generation share the same spotlight and news recognition as the current generation. There's so much sorrow happening in the world at the minute, that it would be nice to provide a bit of happier news, and especially giving the kids a chance to have their 5 minutes of fame. WesMᴥuse03:43, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. I do not know how this event was covered by Maltese media, but due to last night's event Ukrainian media hardly covered Junior Eurovision Song Contest in Kyiv (although Junior Eurovision Song Contest 2009, also held in Ukraine, was very well covered by the national media). Probably iy is worth DYK item for Maltese victory, but this is definitely not a hot news topic — NickK (talk) 04:00, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Article updated The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
Support Rugby league is a major sport in England (the country that hosted the final), Australia (the country that won the final) and New Zealand (the country that contested the final). Equivalent of, say, a World Cup final in ice hockey Hosted by Canada and contested between USA and Russia.--Gibson Flying V (talk) 09:48, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for that - this was my first ITN nomination, apologies for not getting the phrasing quite right - thanks for sorting it out. --Bcp67 (talk) 18:52, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose can hardly support an AU vs NZ match simply because "it's on ITNR" when other matters of actual historical import like the Ukraine EU membership protests languish here for lack of attention. μηδείς (talk) 18:56, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support. Altblurb as it is. I don't think we need to give chapter and verse. Details about the Association Agreement are in the article. Formerip (talk) 18:06, 30 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support alt blurb. Significant week-long protests, a pretty good article, and a chance to feature a long-running story which hasn't previously been posted. Modest Geniustalk19:16, 30 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Comment This has sufficient support to be posted, I just can't decide on the blurb. The first blurb is strange (Despite their demands not being met, people keep protesting?), police intervention is just an episode in the ongoing protests and the non-agreement was 10 days ago (though it makes sense to include it). What about "Over 100.000 people protest in Kyiv following the suspension of EU Association Agreement by Ukraine"? Some feedback on this one, please, then ready to post. --Tone13:44, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Well, the situation is being updated daily. On 29 November people were protesting despite their demands not being met, on 30 November anti-riot policy has forcefully broken up protests, today (1 December) between 350,000 and 500,000 people are protesting in Kyiv against bascially everything... against suspension of EU Association Agreement, against use of force against demonstrators and for the resignation of the government (Kyiv Post). The first blurb was perfect as of 29 November, the alternative one was good as of 30 November, now a new one is needed. I would suggest something like Hundreds of thousands protest in largest cities of Ukraine following suspension of EU Association Agreement and forceful break up of protests in Kyiv by the police on Friday night. Please be aware that this blurb may become outdated tomorrow as well :) — NickK (talk) 14:56, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support — With an estimated 350,000 people demonstrating in Kiev on Dec. 1 [5], this story is among those conspicuous by their absence from ITN. Sca (talk) 18:21, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Several opposition parties including the Civil Movement for Democracy hold a protest march on the headquarters of Thailand's ruling Puea Thai party in Bangkok. (Reuters)(IBN Live)
Oppose as not quite notable in number of deaths for a passenger aircraft, and with no other special circumstances given for notability. μηδείς (talk) 18:50, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Undecided This is a more unusual story than first glance because the crash took place in a built up area. I'd support if (sadly) the severity increases by a decent margin. Truth is, I don't know how often helicopters crash and I guess it's more comparable to light aircraft crashes which often don't make the news. I found the nomination for the last helicopter crash that I heard of (Wikipedia:In_the_news/Candidates/January_2013#Helicopter_crash_in_London) and that was broadly opposed. CaptRik (talk) 10:21, 30 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I am leaning towards support now that more details are clear, but equally i'm not sure that this story and the airline crash should both be up. CaptRik (talk) 16:52, 30 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Undecided/Wait, but this is already a little different than the prior London crash, as this was a police helicopter that apparently landed on top of a crowded pub, in which there seems to have been many casualties(more than the London crash). 331dot (talk) 10:54, 30 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose, unusual incident and huge coverage in UK, but even if fatalities are in the upper estimate of what's being reported it remains globally a fairly minor story. yorkshiresky (talk) 14:37, 30 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Weak supportwe posted the helicopter crash in London this is similar, with more fatalities and the sad juxtaposition of a police helicopter and a busy pub. Notable. The Rambling Man (talk) 16:32, 30 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support, but perhaps combine with the other major air crash that is in the news. "In aviation, a Mozambique jetliner crash kills 34, and a helicopter falls into a Glasgow pub, killing 8." JehochmanTalk17:41, 30 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support Jehochman's combined blurb idea. I'd probably also support it separately; police helicopters don't often crash into crowded buildings. I think we sometimes get too hung up on death tolls. Espresso Addict (talk) 18:15, 30 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Support Rare accident, high death toll (for the particular area/incident type). Comments have been made by Scotland's first minister and the UK prime minister, and the Queen. However, the accident in the grand scheme of things is relatively small.--Somchai Sun (talk) 18:20, 30 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
strongest possible oppose I was coming here to ask why someone hasnt created this page. Please answer what possible encypaedic worth does this have? Letys clarify that this is not a social media news sitem, nor is it wikinews, it is wikipedia "the free encyclopaedia"Lihaas (talk) 18:51, 30 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Hey? You ask why someone hasn't created the page then say "letys [sic] clarify this is not a social media news sitem [sic]". What are you trying to say? Can you please try to write in English? The Rambling Man (talk) 20:53, 30 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. Just doesn't seem significant enough. 8 deaths in one crash is a lot for a helicopter, but not for transportation in general. The Mozambique crash was a much bigger incident and deserved to be posted. Modest Geniustalk19:18, 30 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
It is hilarious to see news sites across the world leading with this story and the great and the good of wikipedia are debating whether it is worth a mention --nonsenseferret23:10, 30 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
(to formerIP) I don't think that's true if we can post a supermarket collapse in Latvia(or its effects like a resignation). But, much like TRM implied, I await your nomination of such an event to prove it. 331dot (talk) 22:59, 30 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
You know very well that my pilot's licence got revoked after that time I tried to prove we wouldn't have posted 9/11 if it happened in Helsinki. Formerip (talk) 23:26, 30 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
But it is not the be-all-end-all. Death toll is just one of many factors(which can include location, level of news coverage, reaction from prominent people, etc.). I don't mean to criticize your reason for opposing this, just FYI. 331dot (talk) 01:13, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Neutral on whether or not this is posted. My gut instinct is no, but there does seem to be an emerging consensus to post this, and it is a somewhat unusual incident. However, I beg of you, can we please not merge this blurb with the completely unrelated Mozambique crash? They have absolutely nothing to do with one another, other than occurring on the same day and involving things that fly. We don't have so many successful nominations that we suddenly need to start conserving space on the template. --Bongwarrior (talk) 23:29, 30 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
That seems to be the rationale for combining them (same day and things that fly). That's not enough? I don't think it's a matter of saving space so much as not bogging down ITN with the same subject matter. 331dot (talk) 23:40, 30 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Both, however, did not involve helicopters crashing on them. Two aircraft crashing is, well, two aircraft crashing. We don't yet know what caused the supermarket roof collapse- and it was also the largest death toll for an incident in Latvia since 1950. 331dot (talk) 00:00, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I'm opposed to posting this, but iff it does go up, it should be a separate blurb. There's no justification for combining them. Actually I didn't see anyone make a serious suggestion to do so... Modest Geniustalk01:41, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support separate blurb as-is Happened in an Anglophone country. Lowers the bar enough. Might or might not have been nominated and/or posted had it happened somewhere else, but I don't find that terribly relevant, as the ITN section is for items that are of particular interest to our readers. --hydrox (talk) 02:57, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per Modest Genius. Contra hydrox, we should certainly not be exacerbating systemic bias by favouring items that occur in Anglophone countries. Neljack (talk) 05:30, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
We shouldn't fight systemic bias by reducing stories that are posted from such countries, but by working to post more stories from elsewhere. 331dot (talk) 10:43, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
To quote, the primary purpose of the ITN is "to help readers find and quickly access content they are likely to be searching for because an item is in the news." So considering that this happened in an Anglophone country and this is the English-language Wikipedia after all, it's likely that users might be searching for this article, right? Systematic bias is more of a content issue. --hydrox (talk) 20:12, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Apples and oranges. A bus crash is not a helicopter crash; buses crash much more frequently than helicopters crashing on crowded pubs. 331dot (talk) 10:41, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Strong support. Police helicopters typically don't crash. Helicopters typically don't crash into buildings. Aircraft typically don't crash in the centre of major cities. The last point alone makes this a very significant news item, and it would be news wherever in the world it happened so systematic bias isn't relevant here. Thryduulf (talk) 11:30, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Marking as ready - There seems to be sufficient consensus to post. As I'm the nominator, I'll allow another admin to review and decide if I've read the consensus correctly. Mjroots (talk) 11:51, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I count ten opposes and twelve supports of some sort. But with the waits and neutrals included there is certainly not a consensus to publish. μηδείς (talk) 18:32, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Brushing aside the lunatic fringe who compare buses to helicopters, and the inflammatory use of an analogy about Englishmen in a debate involving Glasgow, I'm on the fence here. Medeis' underlying point could be taken both ways though: replace Englishmen with Americans, Frenchmen with Englishmen, and Germans with Scots, and that's probably where we are. —WFC— FL wishlist20:40, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
In the United States the holidays of Thanksgiving and the first day of Hanukkah occur on the same day. The event, dubbed Thanksgivukkah, last happened in 1888, and will not occur again for another 70,000+ years. (TIME)(BBC)
Nominator's comments: This is getting quite a large amount of attention and in a few hours the long range comet will reach perihelion. Now obviously it could get chewed up by the Sun, but there is a decent chance it will make it alive. The comet is being called "Comet of the Century" and compared to the great comet of 1680 as it is very rare comet in terms of its origins, its tail, its orbit etc etc. We post Solar eclipses and in my opinion this event is a lot rarer and much more suitable for ITN in terms of encyclopedic content. Also its got a decent article. Please adjust the blurb... Also the event will be captured by SDO for those that care. ---- Ashish-g5515:34, 28 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Tentative support, depending on the outcome. Falling appart will be a less attractive outcome than making it around the Sun. --Tone15:45, 28 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I wish we could somehow post the SDO link so people can watch the outcome Live! Its amazing that there is technology out there that can show us these things as it happens -- Ashish-g5515:50, 28 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Support Numerous comets are floating around in space, but being called the comet of the centuary makes it quite distinctive. As per Tone, subject to the outcomes, my vote patterns would change. Regards, theTigerKing16:00, 28 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support, whatever the outcome. Appears a rare and interesting event. Has certainly been getting substantial press coverage. We should probably post an image. Espresso Addict (talk) 18:21, 28 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support Posting now for the benefit of the live link. The sort of thing that's perfect for an encyclopedia and will be of interest even if it breaks up. μηδείς (talk) 18:30, 28 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
There are various links you can find on line (just google ison live) the flyby is for the next two hours. The link I was watching had a British astronomer talking, since presumably the comet's on the other side of the sun now. μηδείς (talk) 18:37, 28 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Wait. What we have here is:
Headline: "Comet of the century"
Paragraph 16: "Whether it really will be a comet of the century is unclear"
Oppose. Doesn't meet our usual criteria for comets: 'clearly visible by naked eye even to those who weren't specifically looking for it' (see WP:ITNR#Celestial_events and the several ITN/C discussions on comets referenced there). Essentially this was a case of 'it might be huge!' that turned out to be a damp squib. It disintegrated without ever being visible to anyone who wasn't already looking for it. Although it has been widely covered on social media, scientifically there isn't anything very special about it. I'm willing to reassess if the situation changes, but right now it's not significant enough. The 'comet of the century' label was wildly inappropriate hyperbole that now looks silly. Modest Geniustalk01:14, 29 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
There seems to be a bit of speculation as to whether it survived. SDO could not see it but seems like some portion of it made it around the sun as seen by SOHO. So still dont know if it got destroyed or some part of it is still alive -- Ashish-g5518:49, 29 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The Usual Suspects oppose this on the grounds that this is simply not a big deal, but of course it is, being a sungrazer that just travelled a light year over 1 million years, becoming one of the brightest and earliest detected new comets. It's had huge news coverage and huge reader interest. This is the perfect place to have come to look for info on it above the tabloid pablum--perfect except for the usual naysayers who keep this off the front page. Yes, there's a huge satisfaction had in saying no, and showing how above it all one is compared to everyone else. It's not a good reason to oppose a nomination like this. μηδείς (talk) 02:40, 30 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The Usual Suspects cry systemic bias on anything that happens within the atmosphere outside of Asia, yet are systemically biased towards documenting anything that comes within 1 AU of Earth. —WFC— FL wishlist20:49, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's comments: The COAS is the top slot in the Pakistan Army and has historically been a very influential position in Pakistan, both in terms of military history and politics. Sharif is due to replace Ashfaq Parvez Kayani, who was ranked as the world's 28th most powerful man by Forbes in 2012. --Mar4d (talk) 03:22, 28 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Oppose As per 331dot. Posting this, does not mean that we stop posting ITNRs (appointment of President/PM of Pakistan). The army chief had been historically (since independence) an influential position in Pakistan (we never posted in the past in ITN), and most likely would continue to be (we should not post it in ITN in the future). The article should be posted only if it is Encyclopediac enough and not just on notability terms (The event would garner headlines around the world as Army chief of Pakistan is as important as PM/President of Pakistan in decision making). We do not consider ,as a valid argument, posting 1st or 28th "World's most powerful person of XXXX year" as rated by several magazines annually.Regards, theTigerKing16:06, 28 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
[Posted] Latvian Prime Minister announces resignation
Nominator's comments: We often post every fall of a government and the reason in this case is relatively unusual. The story with the roof collapse was posted few days ago, but this is a different one resulting from it. --Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 00:30, 28 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
oppose 1. we just posted the fire (who would have though that would be landmark? (tinpot lil country) 2. we actually don't post most falls of government. This is not exceptional as we posted that recently.Lihaas (talk) 01:31, 28 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
support The resignation of a head of state/government of any sovereign nation should be borderline ITNR and is definitely the sort of material that ITN seems to routinely cover, and more importantly than anything, the target article, while a bit short, contains no obvious problems.--Jayron3203:36, 28 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support. The unexpected resignation of a head of government due to a scandal/incompetence/mismanagement is notable enough for ITN. 331dot (talk) 03:34, 28 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
In China, some second-tier cities such as Wuhan and Shenyang begin to enhance local housing price controlling policy, following all first-tier cities' controlling policy enhancement in the country. (ifeng.com)
U.S. Bankruptcy Court Judge Sean Lane, who is overseeing the case of the bankruptcy reorganization of American Airlines, gives his required approval to the American Airlines–US Airways merger, dismissing the objection of a passenger's group, clearing the way for it to go forward in December 2013 unless there is an appeal. (CNN Money)
The price of one Bitcoin breaks above $1,000 for the first time, and marks a rise of over 7,600 percent so far this year. (CNBC)
Three girls (two of whom eventually fled to a neighbor's house to escape their knife-wielding stepfather and notified police) held captive for several months or more in extremely dirty conditions (possibly up to two years), subjected to long barrages of loud music or static, fed only once a day and having gone up to four months without a bath, are rescued in Tucson, Arizona. (CNN)
Tens of thousands of Tunisians demonstrate over the economic crisis in three cities calling for greater investment in their impoverished regions. Clashes broke out in the town of Siliana between the police and protesters following general strikes. (ABC News)(Ahram Online)
A Pakistani Tehreek-e-Insaf (PTI) party official, Shireen Mazari, in connection with a police murder investigation into unnamed persons after a recent drone strike that killed five, reportedly outs the names of two CIA officials, Director John Brennan and the Pakistan Station Chief (U.S. and CIA officials have not yet given official confirmation). (CNN)
Science and Technology
Japan's self-driving Nissan Leaf car finishes the very first public road test on a highway in Japan. (Engadget)
Nominator's comments: While Berlusconi has been prosecuted plenty of times before, he usually gets off due to appeals, expiry, or because he changed the law to make him immune (really!). For a long time, it looked like his political influence would save his seat in parliament this time too, since he was threathening to bring down the government. This actual follow-through consequence is unusual and therefore notable. Thue (talk) 18:13, 27 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose I think we'd be posting because of his celebrity status rather than because of a really significant news story here. Could argue that the Latvian Prime Minister resigning on the same day is a bigger story. CaptRik (talk) 19:22, 27 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
He is the very recently former President of Italy, and a (still) hugely powerful politician and media mogul. That is not just being being a celebrity!?! I am a bit at a loss at how anybody can not find this item notable. Thue (talk) 20:09, 27 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Meh. He has been posted (I think) three times in the past year, roughly, and once or twice before that. We posted the really big stories; this one is but a ripple. --Bongwarrior (talk) 20:37, 27 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support This is significant news, given that Berlusconi has escaped this fate on so many other occasions and that it is likely to cause further political instability in a country that is in a fragile economic position. Neljack (talk) 21:27, 27 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose we already posted his August 2013 conviction. Per the article, this is a continuation of the same process, that also included a ban from public office for two years. --hydrox (talk) 22:33, 27 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
support sitting/former rime mnister getting booted out of parliament (not just office) is highly notable...and more than Latvia.Lihaas (talk) 01:28, 28 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Then the question is, how often legislators are convicted while in office, and does the rule in this case tell the legislature to expel the member once s/he's convicted no matter what or it's upon the discretion of the majority if they're expelling people. –HTD13:49, 28 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Article:German federal election, 2013 (talk·history·tag) Blurb: Germany’s two largest political parties, the Conservatives and Social Democrats, conclude five weeks of negotiations by agreeing to form a “Grand Coalition" government that will introduce a national minimum wage of €8.50 ($11.55, £7.11) in 2015. (Post) Alternative blurb: Following the German federal election on 22 September, CDU/CSU and SPD form a "grand coalition" government. News source(s): BBC [6], Spiegel [7] Credits:
Support This is big news for Europe. I'm not sure the detail about the minimum wage is appropriate, though - there was lots of guff in the coalition agreement, IIRC. GoldenRing (talk) 16:37, 27 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
There are some exceptions but they're supposed to go away by 2017. This would be Germany's first-ever national minimum wage — in itself a political milestone. (That's milestone, not millstone — ha.) Sca (talk) 16:51, 27 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. Is what's notable here the creation of the coalition, or the minimum wage? Hasn't it been known since the election in September that there would be a coalition and it was just a matter of working out the details? If it's the minimum wage then the blurb should focus on that. 331dot (talk) 17:14, 27 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
It wasn't completely clear that this is the coalition that would form. IMO we should wait to post the minimum wage when it passes. Thue (talk) 17:17, 27 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
It really should include the amount of time the negotiations took, though — it's been over two months since the election. Sca (talk) 17:35, 27 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. This is largely of national importance, and as matter of fact, nothing has been decided yet: The leaders of these three parties have committed themselves to form a coalition government, but (in the SPD's case), there will be a referendum among all 400,000+ party members during the next weeks (the result will be known only by 15 December). If a majority votes against the proposed coalition treaty, the whole thing will be scrapped. The bit about the minimum wage is also not that important to be showcased on the Wikipedia front page (true, Germany is currently one of only a few Western states without one, but that lack is somewhat balanced by the highly developed welfare system and strong unions and works councils). And again, it's currently only a mere committment. If you really want an item for ITN, then you might want to wait for December 17: On this day, the Bundestag will (that is, must) elect a chancellor, regardless of what will happen until then (but there does not seem to be a snowball's chance in hell that the current one won't be re-elected).--FoxyOrange (talk) 19:13, 27 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The CDUU/CSU & SPD have agreed to the minimum wage in writing — it's a done deal politically speaking — and their coalition will have an overwhelming majority in the Bundestag. Since the minimum wage was the SPD's primary condition for joining a Merkel-led gov't., it's highly unlikely that its rank and file will vote against the deal.
Disagree that it's merely a national story, since Germany is the acknowledged economic and de facto political leader of the EU. Sca (talk) 20:57, 27 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I've made a small tweak to the blurb - changing "minimum national wage" to "national minimum wage," which is the more usual and idiomatic term. Neljack (talk) 21:31, 27 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
support ALT blurb highly notable country and long negotations. Plus we posted aus, can, uk more than once. The grand coalition makes it more notable as all legislation will pass. Markets much be rocking
wait according to the article it will be approved.rejected 6 dec. and per the popularity of the last grand coalition on the SPD that's quite an ifLihaas (talk) 01:25, 28 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
PPS: BBC day-after story says, "Angela Merkel will return as German chancellor for a third term under a coalition deal hammered out with her old Social Democrat (SPD) opponents" (my emphasis). [9]Sca (talk) 15:22, 28 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Considered one of the best Israeli singers in Israel history, called the godfather of Israeli rock, published in dozen of websites outside Israel and dozens more in Israel. the Israel gov'nt including the PM and President also published statements about his death. – HonorTheKing (talk)12:48, 27 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Unsure. On the one hand, he seems to be almost at the top of the tree in terms of Israeli rock singers. But is that too narrow as a field? Is it fair to say that there are a lot of more significant rock musicians that we would reject for RD? Formerip (talk) 15:14, 27 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support I'm only aware he exists because his death is, well, In The News. But he does seem to be pretty huge in Israel and we do publish stories that are country-specific (or so the blurb at the top says) GoldenRing (talk) 16:35, 27 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support This seems to be of significant interest. Both the Prime Minister and President of Israel gave remarks on his passing, and RS citations call him "the father of Israeli rock". Teemu08 (talk) 16:43, 27 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support once again, a decent shout for the few characters that RD will allow. Please, somebody, sort the references out, they're a complete mess, but otherwise good to go. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:26, 27 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Article:Bay Psalm Book (talk·history·tag) Blurb: A 1640 copy of the Bay Psalm Book sells for $14.2 million at auction, becoming the most expensive printed book in history. (Post) News source(s):BBC Credits:
Support, when updated. I'd been wondering about nominating this. Besides being interesting in its own right, this cluster of auction records forms an interesting reflection of the current economic climate. The article is in decent shape and probably doesn't want a disproportionate update on this sale of a single copy, though a little more referencing in the appropriate section would be useful, both of the new record and of the old auction prices. Espresso Addict (talk) 10:48, 27 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
An archaeological site is discovered in Nepal dating to 550 BC which is claimed to be a Buddhist shrine. If true, the birthday of the Buddha would be pushed back. However, not all experts agree on the significance of the site. (National Geographic)
Chinese police detain nine people for alleged negligence in relation to the November 22 Sinopec oil pipeline explosions in the eastern port city of Qingdao which killed at least 55 people. (Reuters)
The U.S. Supreme Court agrees to hear certain major religious freedom cases that will decide whether a company that is for-profit (including family-run ones)- and other entities who are not themselves churches- can refuse to provide contraceptive coverage that would otherwise be required under the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act; lower courts are split. (NBC)
In Canada, the National Hockey League (NHL) and Rogers Communications announce a 12-year, $5.2 billion deal that grants national television rights of the NHL to the Rogers-owned Sportsnet. The agreement includes a provision that allows CBC to continue airing Hockey Night in Canada on Saturday nights; however, Rogers will have creative and financial control of the program. TSN, which has held some national broadcast rights to the NHL since 2002, is shut out of the deal. [10]
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: ManUtd 4th higest appereances player, played for 18 years, a Manchester United captain and 1958 Munich air crash survivor. Won championships and the first European Cup with ManUtd, who is the current English champions. – HonorTheKing (talk)12:53, 27 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose relatively speaking not that important. Yes, surviving Munich and having a decent record with Utd is notable, but I'd be surprised if this makes any serious news tremors outside of Manchester. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:03, 27 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The military posturing is not inconsequential. First, China's declaration of a defense zone is significant and is still recent. Second, the ramifications for regional politics are huge. This has strengthened anti-chinese sentiment and increased US influence in the region.[11]RyanVesey19:16, 26 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Something going into a unilaterally declared exclusion zone is not in of itself news. If you look at prior incidents of this kind, this stuff happens, and the vast majority of the time it amounts to nothing much. As one of the articles you highlight says, 'Officials said there had been no Chinese response to the bomber run.' Only if this causes some kind of an escalation will this start to become news. Redverton (talk) 20:52, 26 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. The bombers were unarmed; aircraft confrontations are not unusual in international relations(Russia often buzzes Alaska and the US sends fighters to monitor them). 331dot (talk) 03:49, 27 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Oppose even with the sentencing... Given that i would oppose had the trial of the indian dentists been nominated. Regardless of how shocking it is its still a local criminal case with no effect on the law. -- Ashish-g5517:49, 26 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support. A celebrity (admittedly one I haven't heard of, but that is of course irrelevant) pleading guilty to serious crimes is notable, and this is getting coverage. We post upon convictions(or in this case, pleading guilty), not sentencing, I believe. Don't see a ton of stores from Wales, either. 331dot (talk) 17:52, 26 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. This case is not strictly local as the investigation involved/involves international authorities and the band had notable success outside of the UK. SheffGruff (talk) 18:08, 26 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
He plead guilty; no need to be found guilty. We don't typically wait for sentencing to post the results of trials/criminal cases. 331dot (talk) 03:45, 27 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose for fear of this becoming a tabloid section. Serious crime, but just because he's a minor celeb, it doesn't provide longevity. How much of mass sexual crimes of Savile, Stuart Hall etc have we featured on ITN? The Rambling Man (talk) 18:31, 26 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Good point I suppose TRM... I've changed to "weak" support if he gets found guilty, but that will be another nomination another day so we'll see...--Somchai Sun (talk) 18:40, 26 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose I am not fundamentally opposed to featuring harsh sentences against celebrities, but Watkins is just too obscure of a celebrity. Lostprophets only had sustained success in one country. Teemu08 (talk) 20:01, 26 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Objections relating to the fact this deals with only one country are not valid: "Please do not complain about an event only relating to a single country, or failing to relate to one. This applies to a high percentage of the content we post and is unproductive."331dot (talk) 03:44, 27 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
Nominator's comments: Oddly no one has nominated this here as ITN. There is a disput e in the election but the electoral commission has ruled. --Lihaas (talk) 15:39, 26 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
It's not so odd since it doesn't seem to be in the news ("Make sure that you include a reference from a verifiable, reliable source.") ITNR does not override the need for something to be in the news. 331dot (talk) 15:59, 26 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I'm still confused why this is a requirement. Does no one read the article and check the references? There you can find the news sources you demand. This whole requirement of including another news source is ridiculous process wonkery that makes it more difficult and time consuming to nominate items at ITN/C and is basically instruction creep. SpencerT♦C20:48, 26 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The simple courtesy of providing a source also takes seconds. And it has been a problem in the past that stories have garnered supports based on a misleading nomination without sources. I think one got posted and then had to be speedily undone, although I can't remember what the story was. Formerip (talk) 02:09, 27 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
(to Spencer) I'm not "demanding" anything; I'm only going by the instructions on this page for proper nominations(and I only bring it up with regular posters who should be aware of said instructions). It's not too much to ask to plug one news story in the 'sources' line of the template(that's what it's there for). It shouldn't be up to me to seek out information to support someone else's nomination, especially when we make it easy to do so. As FormerIP said, it only takes seconds. 331dot (talk) 03:42, 27 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support Significant archaeological discovery with potential implications for the controversy over Buddha's birth date. Will, I'm sure, be of widespread interest, and helps with systemic bias issues too. Neljack (talk) 06:48, 26 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support Very significant discovery related to one of world's largest religions and one of the most famous religious figure and spiritual teachers who has ever lived. I agree with the implications that may come from it.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 10:39, 26 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
No, that's not how it works. I don't intend to edit the article, but that doesn't prejudice its chances of getting posted. It'll get posted if someone wants to do it. Formerip (talk) 12:50, 26 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
He is correct that an article can be nominated before an update (as it suggests here but, while I agree that this is worthy of posting as a significant development for Buddhism, I need an update or an article to evaluate before actually endorsing it. If no one does, then this won't be posted. 331dot (talk) 13:02, 26 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Great! I didn't say you can't nominate it. What I said is that doing so prematurely greatly reduces the chance of this ever being posted. I came here looking to post something, and this is the only thing here this morning, but I can't post it because there's no update. By the time an update is ready, I predict three or four comments will have appeared to the effect "Oppose, not ready", and at that point the consensus becomes muddied and can't be sorted without a couple days of discussion, by which time other, better nominations will appear, and this one will get buried. JehochmanTalk13:07, 26 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Any opposes based on article not being ready can be ignored and should not affect the consensus at all. The nomination is to decide whether this item should go on ITN... update is mandatory and should be checked at time of posting. Having said that, it should not be marked "Ready" without an update -- Ashish-g5514:42, 26 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support after Vejvančický's work. The new article is shorter than we usually highlight but adequate to cover the main facts. I have suggested an alt blurb to highlight it. Espresso Addict (talk) 15:13, 26 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
A cargo train laden with corn derails in São José do Rio Preto in southeastern Brazil, smashing into houses and killing at least eight and injuring another six. (AP via News24)
The official intermediate report on the shooting is released online, totaling 48 pages, and detailing no clear motive for the shooting. It states that perpetrator Adam Lanza had had an obsession with shootings like Columbine, had a strained and non-communicative relationship with his murdered mother Nancy, and had planned the shooting and the details in advance. It does say he had mental health issues, but does not indicate they were causative factors. (CNN)(News 12 Connecticut)[permanent dead link]
A Parsons, Kansas manhunt begins in the U.S. for David Cornell Bennett, Jr. who is alleged to have stalked and killed a mother and her three young children. (FOX News)(FOX News)
Article updated The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
Nominator's comments: It's the championship of the highest level of play for Canadian football and is listen on ITN/R. Might not have been the best football game, but a great game for us Rider fans! --PlasmaTwa205:39, 25 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I've added a very crude game summary and a few other tidbits. It's hard to get all the information so quickly after the end of the game, but it will be added as it becomes available. --PlasmaTwa207:09, 25 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support per ITNR. Canuck89 (chat with me) 15:27, November 25, 2013 (UTC)
Could you please fix the links so they point to the respective team's season page, i.e. [[2013 Saskatchewan Roughriders season|Saskatchewan Roughriders]]. Thanks. --bender235 (talk) 20:11, 27 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I think the convention here is to link at franchises, not the current (last since it ended?) season's teams. –HTD08:33, 29 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I think that's correct. Not everyone might be aware of what exactly the teams are; and if they want information about the season itself, they can get there from that article. 331dot (talk) 11:16, 29 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Pope Francis venerates the purported remains of his first ever predecessor, as the Vatican gives a public display for what some claim are St Peter's remains. (Guardian)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Absolutely interesting, but sourcing needs improvement. As above, mosque destruction should be included if posted, and a total ban on Islam is confirmed. Interesting to ponder the repercussions for Muslims living in Angola – a not unsizable amount, I believe? 80.241.222.107 (talk) 15:00, 25 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Comment This all seems rather sketchy at the moment. The English language articles I've read (and there don't seem to be many of them at present) quote (unnamed) Angolan newspapers as reporting this. They in turn are quoting the Minister of Culture. If one reads the Minister's comments, it seems that the headlines are somewhat misleading. She says that "the process of legalization of Islam has not been approved by the Ministry of Justice and Human Rights...their mosques would be closed until further notice." So it seems that Islam may already be illegal in Angola, and that what has happened is that the Islamic authorities' request to be legalised has been rejected and the government is changing its previous de facto tolerance of Islam. I really think we need more information and reliable sources before we can post this. Neljack (talk) 06:48, 25 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Wait - Lets see some serious sourcing and a solid article first. If this turns out to be a hoax, and we've posted it... I note that nothing has been published from the The Times, The New York Times, or The Guardian yet. The "best" source I've been able to find was IBTimes, which is not very reassuring. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 09:37, 25 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed. Needs way more English sources for confirmation, and it's certainly not clear if the proposed laws constitute a total ban on Islam, or something else. 80.241.222.107 (talk) 15:00, 25 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Comment This needs expansion on the bit of the blurb that says "...and other religions". The current emphasis on Islam seems to be pushing a particular POV. HiLo48 (talk) 21:58, 25 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Support in principle, though few details of the agreement have been released yet. We might want to wait for some details to update the article with. 331dot (talk) 03:05, 24 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support. I suggest rewording the blurb to reflect that a deal between Iran and the six world powers (5+1) had been reached by which Iran is to stop its nuclear program for six months in return for relief from some sanctions.[15]Mohamed CJ(talk)05:24, 24 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
It seems Iran has to stop the nuclear activities above 5% Uranium enrichment only (it's not complete freeze). So maybe we could say: Iran and the P5+1 reach a deal to halt Iran's enrichment of Uranium above 5% for six months in exchange for a decrease in sanctions. We can also remove "for six months" and instead change "deal" to "short-term deal". Mohamed CJ(talk)07:26, 24 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Wait Barack "drone-strike Qaddafi-coup Mubarak-overthrow Al Morsi-overthrow Syrian-rebel betrayal" Hussein Obama's Nobel Peace Prize was also called historic. Let's get a little perspective first. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Medeis (talk • contribs) 05:27, 24 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Huh? Obama isn't even mentioned in the blurb. There's 6 billion other people that aren't either, but their actions are also not being called in for relevance here. Let's keep focused on this news event rather than one from 5 years ago which is entirely unrelated. --Jayron3205:33, 24 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I cant's speak for other nations, but "agreements" like this have no legal power in the US unless they are passed as laws (majority in both houses) or ratified as treaties (two-thirds of the senate), neither of which is going to happen. μηδείς (talk) 19:50, 24 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support - The run-up to this deal has been in the headlines the past few days. Now that it's done, there's not a whole lot of doubt that this is ITN-worthy. --Bongwarrior (talk) 06:53, 24 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
1. it is NOT between the US and Iran. 2. So is the first agreement on climate change (or much else) between the divisive first worls and redst (below). 2.1. so is the first step in militarization o f a conflict.Lihaas (talk) 13:16, 24 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
But its not between the US and Iran...there are a bunch of international caveats to it. (Germany for one was a strong beneficiaty of financial trade with Iran...and theyre here for some reason which adds a whole new dimentsion that bilaterlal agreements would NEVER do)Lihaas (talk) 15:56, 24 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
We can debate the semantics all day long, but the fact remains that diplomatic discussions resulting in any sort of agreement between the US and Iran have been rare in the last 35 years. It's significant. 331dot (talk) 16:08, 24 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support A deal between Iran and the US & co seemed a distant prospect only a few months ago. That one has now been reached, albeit one that does not solve all the issues, is a very big deal. Neljack (talk) 08:43, 24 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The separate article maybe good, but the title is rubbish. At least as it stands it indicates that nothing has happened yet if it is INTERIM.Lihaas (talk) 13:21, 24 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Strong support I opposed China's one child policy as it was a Governmental promise to its people. That may or may not happen. I would support it for two reasons, even if the deal fails in the short term. First, a deal like this one could not have been predicted a few months back. US says it as a historic first step. Secondly, the deal is of great interest in many regions (Middle East- Saudi Arabia, Israel, Palestine, Iraq, Syria, Lebanon) and others (US [Economic Sanctions], Russia, China, India (Oil relations), Pakistan, Afghanistan). The deal, could affect the oil prices in the short term, provide economic stability, may provide a sense of confidence to the financial markets and many more things. Regards, theTigerKing16:12, 24 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
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