User talk:Louis P. Boog

.

About Wudu article — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.187.99.138 (talk) 00:00, 17 May 2016 (UTC)

Vomiting does not invalidate Wudu, nor does the loss of blood.

Peace, — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.187.99.138 (talk) 00:06, 17 May 2016 (UTC)

Important

Do you have an e-mail address? I need to speak with you in private. Kurdo777 (talk) 01:15, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

Why can't you put it on my talk page? --BoogaLouie (talk) 22:32, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

Warning - WP:RS

Please study our WP:RS policy on what is an acceptable source. Self-publishing weblogs/websites with no editorial oversight such as Iranian.com or publishing-houses' promotional materials better known as Blurbs/forwards etc, can not be used as a source on Wikipedia. This is formal warning. Kurdo777 (talk) 17:34, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

Kurdo777, what specific part of WP:RS are you referring to? The webpage http://us.macmillan.com/author/darioushbayandor is a page which is published by a scholarly book publishing house, and the page is their official author biography of Darioush Bayandor. There is editorial oversight for this page, and it is reliable. None of the text on that page is remotely contentious, not at all likely to be challenged. On what basis do you issue a formal warning? Binksternet (talk) 18:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

Good point Binkster. As for Iranian.com, could you (Kurdo) provide some admin decision on the unreliability of Iranian.com? The Wikipedia article makes it sound pretty good. But I don't see anything about what "editorial oversight" it has or has not. The interviewer of Darioush Bayandor sounds at least plausibly notable:

Fariba Amini holds a BA from George Mason University in Sociology, an MA in history form the Sorbonne and a cerfiticate in Business administration from Georgetown University. She has been active on Human Rights issues and was co-founder of the Alliance for Defense of Human Rights in Iran.

She is currently writing her father's biography who was the mayor of Tehran and personal attorney of Dr. Mohammad Mossadegh. she is the President of Foundation for Educational Progress, a non-profit organization which collects and sends educational materials to Afghanistan and other Farsi speaking countries. She lives in the suburb of Washington, DC.

I Kurdo has reverted again. Should we try and get a 3rd opinion? --BoogaLouie (talk) 19:38, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

Like what you've written recently, I'm pretty sure you will be challenged on use of blogs, so be prepared.Cronos1 (talk) 01:34, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

Karim Sadjadpour

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I hope I have made enough changes and additions to original material (I took from Sadjadpour's page at Carnegie Endowment not from SourceWatch) to avoid any copyright violation. (copied from Sadjadpour's Talk page) --BoogaLouie (talk) 19:03, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

Big warning

BoogaLouie has violated Wikipedia's copy-right polices on many occasions, by dumping large chunks of texts taken from copy-righted books, into various articles. He currently hosts several of these quote-farms on his sub-page or sub-pages of discussions pages, which are also a part of Wikipedia and governed by Wikipedia rules. An admin should look into these pages, which are being used essentially as a blog/POV-fork full of copyrighted text. ( ie[1] ) Kurdo777 (talk) 21:28, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

Not true. Have not "dumping large chunks of texts taken from copy-righted books" or "violated Wikipedia's copy-right polices on many occasions". The alleged "quote-farms on his sub-page or sub-pages ... essentially as a blog/POV-fork" such as this, are not acessable to the public but were created for wikipedia editors to help sort out issues in the highly contentious 1953 Iranian coup d'état article. They are clearly distinguishable from wikipedia articles. -BoogaLouie (talk) 21:49, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

Hi. I've just gotten around to looking at the bot-taggings after the weekend and there are some issues. While Karim Sadjadpour is not a word-for-word copy of the source (and sourcewatch just copied from the same one which is why it was mentioned), it is largely the same in terms of structure and language and so is an unusable close paraphrase and I have blanked it as being a copyright problem. It can be rewritten or stubbed on the temporary page which is linked from the template and will be evaluated by an admin in about a week. I should also note that simply quoting the phrasing from the copyrighted source isn't an acceptable solution either, because it can be rewritten in your own words which would be free from copyright restrictions and so it needs to be.

With regards to the "large chunks of texts" mentioned by Kurdo777, while there are some exceptions made for the short-term hosting of copyrighted material (for purposes of cleaning an article of copyright problems or salvaging non-creative material) pages such as Talk:1953 Iranian coup d'état/Mosaddeq domestic issues are not an acceptable use, and will need to be replaced with a list of links to the sources or it will be blanked or deleted. VernoWhitney (talk) 16:51, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

The problem is the quotes were typed by hand as most of them don't appear any other place on the internet.

Have tried to de-copyright infringe the Karim Sadjadpour article. --BoogaLouie (talk) 01:10, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

To be quite frank it doesn't matter that the quotes don't appear any other place on the internet, the point is that they violate policy by being here and you could always set up a personal website to host them where all you'd have to worry about is fair use and not Wikipedia's stricter requirements. Are there more of these quote/source pages than Talk:1953 Iranian coup d'état/Communism sources, Talk:1953 Iranian coup d'état/Mosaddeq domestic issues and Talk:1953 Iranian coup d'état/Mosaddeq's behavior sources? VernoWhitney (talk) 14:41, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

No, that's the lot. I was hoping the situation at the 1953 Iranian coup article had changed and they would be useful for editing, but if they violate regulations I won't put up a fuss about their deletion. --BoogaLouie (talk) 17:11, 9 December 2010 (UTC) (I do have this page as a subpage of my own talk page. I hope that doesn't violate policy). --BoogaLouie (talk) 17:45, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

Thanks, I'll go ahead and blank them in case anyone wants to copy the information out of the page history in the next week or so. And there's nothing wrong with keeping a copy of an article in your userspace as a sandbox to work on possible improvements. VernoWhitney (talk) 18:04, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

I saw this pop up on my watchlist. I should say that -I- was the first one to make a page like that (link), and I totally disagree that it's against policy. There was a vast failure to agree on reality between several posters on the Iranian coup page - as in, people were saying "Book X supports my position." I actually bothered to go and read the same books and found this to be incorrect. Merely saying that didn't help, so I copied those pages directly for use as possible sources. This -still- didn't matter as Kurdo and others continued to insist that despite what the sources said - right there - they actually said something else. I eventually gave up and stopped paying attention. However, if active debate is still going on in the talk page, I believe these resources are useful to give a baseline of reality to the discussions. I can't attest to BoogaLouie's additions and whether they were "POV" or not, but I went in to reading the books with an open mind, and I can say for myself that the communism sources page was not in any way meant as "blog" or "POV-pushing," but rather to show the reality of the source and make it harder to dance around it. SnowFire (talk) 02:58, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

Exactly my take on it, Snowfire. The sources were assembled for the purpose of improving the article in the same way that a userspace sandbox would be. I see no reason to blank the pages. Binksternet (talk) 03:24, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

I have absolutely no opinion on the POV/blog comment, but those pages are large chunks of copyrighted content which is against policy to leave sitting around indefinitely anywhere, userspace or otherwise, regardless of their purpose. As I said above, a personal webpage could easily be created elsewhere for the content which wouldn't be subject to Wikipedia's non-free content policies. VernoWhitney (talk) 03:50, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

Thank you Snowfire and Binkster for chiming in. Here are some personal webpages which were easily created elsewhere:

Snowfire's original page (plus some additions)

• 1953 Iranian coup d'état - Communism issue - sources

A couple of other pages I created:

• 1953 Iranian coup d'état - issue of Moseddeq’s domestic support - sources
• 1953 Iranian coup d'état - issue of Mosaddeq's behavior - sources --BoogaLouie (talk) 17:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

Bayandor book reviewed in Survival

At Talk:Darioush_Bayandor#Favorable_review you say that you found a review by Steven Simon in the publication Survival. How did you find that? Is it online? I would like to quote from the review.

Also, did you see that the Nobel Peace Prize library acquired the Bayandor book in June 2010? I wonder if there is any significance in this... Binksternet (talk) 22:41, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

Iranian Revolution

In this reversion of your work at Iranian Revolution, Kurdo777 removed some views you added to the lead section. Per WP:LEAD, those views should be present in the article body and summarized in the lead section, not placed in the lead section alone. Binksternet (talk) 19:38, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

Re:

Hello, Louis P. Boog. You have new messages at Kurdo777's talk page.
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Kurdo777 (talk) 22:40, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

Wilber

If you have an opinion regarding Donald Wilber as a reliable source, please weigh in at User talk:Kurdo777#Removal of Wilber. Thank you. Binksternet (talk) 05:52, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

Re Ibn Ishaq

Hello, Louis P. Boog. You have new messages at Wiqi55's talk page.
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About Signing your name

sorry, i havent used wikipedia in a while therefore i made a mistake in the code resulting in your name appearing instead of mine — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ass711 (talk • contribs) 07:01, 5 March 2011 (UTC)

AfD of article you worked on

Please see: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Justus Weiner (2nd nomination). Jaque Hammer (talk) 04:47, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

Wafa Sultan

I don't keep that page on my watchlist but somehow someone is changing "muslim" to "alawite".. I saw you commented on this before, please keep an eye--Khodabandeh14 (talk) 16:42, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

Your RfC on the 1953 Iranian coup d'état

BoogaLouie, your reply to Binksternet regarding working on the lead I thought was understandable. I don't have an opinion on the content dispute, though I am reading through the discussion and find it quite interesting. What do you think, do you and the other involved editors intend to keep working on the paragraph of the lead in question? Cheers! LoveUxoxo (talk) 22:47, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

Well I'm glad you find it interesting, and I definately intend to keep on working on the article, but I want to do this the wikipedia way so right now I'm inclined to work on the main body of the article before working on the lede. Specifically adding information on the military involvement in the coup to the The coup and CIA records and Execution of Operation Ajax section. (You may not "have an opinion on the content dispute" but see if you don't think that the section is surprisuing short on what happened during the coup. Lots about bribes and thugs and restoring the Anglo-Iranian Oil Company, but what exactly happened??? All there is "After a short exile in Italy, the CIA completed the coup against Mossadegh and returned the Shah to Iran.") --BoogaLouie (talk) 00:49, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

Yes, I do intend to read the discussion and hopefully be able to contribute something. The lede should be rewritten at some point, no doubt. I'll see you around, Cheers! LoveUxoxo (talk) 01:36, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

Boogie, are you allowed to close the previous RfC you put up? I think its better if only one (the most recent one) is displayed on the RfC noticeboard page. Dunno if you agree... LoveUxoxo (talk) 22:51, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

Your proposed changes on the 1953 Iranian coup d'état

(Suggestion) change:

They also gave agents $50,000 to created a "black" (fake) Tudeh mob...

to:

The CIA provided $50,000 to fund a "black" (fake) Tudeh mob...

or something similar? Is that factually true? Collect wants to make that statement explicitly, right? Heh, I'm learning a lot about the coup. Cheers! LoveUxoxo (talk) 06:44, 23 April 2011 (UTC)

Thanks, will make changes. --BoogaLouie (talk) 17:25, 23 April 2011 (UTC)

If you changed "heavily fortified" to defended (so: "...took place at Mosaddeq's home, which though defended by loyalist troops and three tanks, was overwhelmed...") how would you feel? I know you are trying hard here and I respect that a lot, sorry I keep coming here and suggesting you (only) compromise - I'll try to work on Collect and Kurdos777 as well. The general gist of your proposed changes, in terms of more detail of the actual coup, is something I think other editors have stated is important (and I'd agree), so if some of the smaller objections can be dismissed (regardless of whether you are right or not), maybe the larger picture can be addressed. Screw the lede; editors opposed to you can always go "that's not what the main body says" right now and so I think it distracts from your main points. Thanks for your work on this, really! LoveUxoxo (talk) 22:32, 25 April 2011 (UTC)

I too appreciate your efforts, but step back from your dispute resolution work and look at what the sources say:

• "Mosaddeq's home, which had been heavily fortified by loyalist troops ... Mosaddeq's home, which was defended by pro-Mosaddeq army units backed by three tanks." (Mohammad Mosaddeq and the 1953 Coup in Iran, Ed. by Mark J. Gasiorowski and Malcolm Byrne, Syracuse University Press, 2004, p.256)
• "after a three-hour battle with three tanks protecting Mosaddeq's home and the main radio station" ... (Iran Between Two Revolutions by Ervand Abrahamian, 1982, p.280)
• " the house [of premier Mosaddeq]. Inside, loyal soldiers built fortifications and prepared for battle. They were armed with rifles, machine guns, and Sherman tanks mounted with 75-millimeter cannons." (All the Shah's men By Stephen Kinzer],(p.182-3, 5)*

That's not heavily fortified??? I just think this is a bit absurd. ... but I'll do it. --BoogaLouie (talk) 15:31, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, I keep suggesting changes for you to make in the hope that we can the move on past a specific objection and get the bulk of what you propose in...but that obviously ain't happening. Your citations all seem good, and I haven't seen any that dispute them. I do like Graeme's point, and think it would be even better if we could mention that as the possibility of a coup became apparent, preparations were made at Mosaddeq's house - dunno if the time frame for that was sometime around the 15th and could be put in that section. I assume if Mosaddegh had been warned of the plot I assume he then organized resistance accordingly. You are being a trooper, CHEERS to you! LoveUxoxo (talk) 23:05, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

Also, your civility on that talk page has been exemplary... LoveUxoxo (talk) 23:33, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

Dear friend, thank you for your 2 messages on my talk page of some 6 weeks ago. Due to a heavy workload, traveling schedule and other reasons, I drop in on WIKIPEDIA rarely these days. Quite frankly, the fact that entirely ignorant kids are busy leaving their embarrassingly poor mark on this platform, by meddling with historically well founded and in general even well VERIFIED posts, makes me give up on contributing. Obviously a blatant lack of supervision and control mechanisms in place, makes it easy for these ignorami to meddle with well sourced information and render hours of diligent work futile. Why waste my precious time on correcting... or contributing pertinently. I trust you and other staunchly dedicated authors will at least succeed in holding all too excessive damage in bay. Good luck to you, you are of course welcome to resort to me if you should think I could be of help in any way.

Pantherarosa (talk) 13:37, 25 June 2011 (UTC)

Apartheid in Bahrain

Use of the word apartheid to describe the government of Bahrain is now so frequent and coming form people of such stature [2] that I believe it ought to be a free-standing page. Will you have a look at it if I put it up?I.Casaubon (talk) 17:11, 10 June 2011 (UTC)

Great. Feel free to edit.Bahrain and the apartheid analogy.I.Casaubon (talk) 18:07, 10 June 2011 (UTC)

AN/I

Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion at noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Regarding the Ibn Ishaq article about the user wiqi55--Misconceptions2 (talk) 14:02, 25 June 2011 (UTC)

"Luther" redirect move discussion re-opened at new page

I'm inviting everyone who contributed to the previous discussion to weigh in (again) at Talk:Luther (disambiguation). Thanks, Aristophanes68 (talk) 20:30, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Falkland Islands

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Your assistance please...

You moved Takfir wal-Hijra to Jama'at al-Muslimin.

I'd like to read the discussion that preceded this renaming. Could you please tell me where to look for it?

Thanks Geo Swan (talk) 14:24, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

There was none. Since Jama'at al-Muslimin was crushed and Shukri Mustafa executed, I thought there was enough of a distinction between Jama'at al-Muslimin and any succeeding groups calling themselves Takfir wal-Hijra to have separate articles (if for no other reason than Jama'at al-Muslimin did not call themselves Takfir wal-Hijra). I originally only created a redirect from Takfir wal-Hijra to Jama'at al-Muslimin, but then I found a lot of sources on Takfir wal-Hijra from old versions of the article, so I created a separate article. Do you object to the dividing of the article? --BoogaLouie (talk) 17:16, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

Hi!

Yo Boogie, what's up? I took a break since there is no point getting frustrated (and I'm not anymore). I am going to avoid conflict and entrenched parties tho... Good luck with the Coup article, I'm not sure what's been going on since I last checked, but it looked grim. It was obviously to me you were trying to make the article more objective, readable, organized and just generally of higher-quality. Heh, no good deed goes unpunished. I'll try keep an eye on what you are doing and hopefully be able add stuff - like I said, you do good work. Cheers! LoveUxoxo (talk) 21:36, 7 August 2011 (UTC)

Thank you LoveU, I've been sort of taking the summer off regarding the coup article as it's a bit .... frustrating, but will be back to work in the fall. My idea is to do a bunch of RfC on the major problems of the article and if (when) no agreement is forthcoming take it to the next level of dispute resolution. I'll keep you in mind for updates on the dispute. All the best. --BoogaLouie (talk) 16:09, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

Actually I'm usually interested in aviation accident articles, and one that I wanted to work on for quite some time is Iran Air Flight 655. I might be calling on you for help on that one...do you know Farsi? LoveUxoxo (talk) 16:08, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

Sorry, I don't. --BoogaLouie (talk) 17:02, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

3RR Warning

Please be apprised of WP:EW and the ramifications thereof. You appear to be engaged in an edit war on the article Koch Industries. It is suggested that you self-revert your last revert which reinserted material currently being discussed at WP:RS/N. Cheers. Collect (talk) 23:38, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Veterans Day

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Your contributed article, Shahid Modarres missile base explosion

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Removing Speedy at Shahid Modarres missile base explosion

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Block

This user's request to have autoblock on their IP address lifted has been reviewed by an administrator, who accepted the request.

Louis P. Boog (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

204.169.161.1 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log)

---

Block message:

(Daniel Case blocked this)Autoblocked because your IP address was recently used by "Guesswhat?ihateyou". The reason given for Guesswhat?ihateyou's block is: "Your account has been blocked indefinitely because it has become apparent that it is being used only for vandalism. Furthermore, your username is a blatant violation of our username policy, meaning that it is profane; threatens, attacks or impersonates another person; or suggests that your intention is not to contribute to the encyclopedia (see our blocking and username policies for more information).

• Blocking administrator: Daniel Case (talk • blocks)

---

Accept reason: No problems with this account in a year and a half. — Daniel Case (talk) 23:17, 10 December 2011 (UTC)

{{unblock}} --BoogaLouie (talk) 22:13, 10 December 2011 (UTC)

Contacting blocking admin. Bear with me. --Anthony Bradbury^"talk" 22:26, 10 December 2011 (UTC)

Looks like a mistake was made in blocking the IP. Hopefully this will get cleared up quickly. Binksternet (talk) 22:56, 10 December 2011 (UTC)

I have removed the autoblock. Let's see if this works. Daniel Case (talk) 23:17, 10 December 2011 (UTC)

Sadat era

Thanks for creating Sadat era! I created a similar article in the Dutch Wiki, last July. Your article looks really sophisticated, I must say, with an impressive list of references. I haven't yet read your article, nor compared it with mine; but it's good for the Wiki-readers, that they now have two articles to read and, if they wish, compare. (Provided they master both languages...)--Corriebert (talk) 10:32, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. The three modern Egyptian presidents all had such long "reigns" and such power to put their stamp on Egypt, it seemed natural for a historical period. --BoogaLouie (talk) 19:11, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Gandzasar monastery

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Please comment on Talk:Nazareth

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Social Mobility in the United States

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islamist is now a common and accepted designation for politically active religious Muslims

Islamism is a concocted term by various Orientalists, neo cons and Israelis. Islamists on the other hand which started out as a derogatory term has now changed and become normative for describing Islamic activists esp in Arab spring revolutions in Egypt, Libya, and Tunisia. This redirection to Islamism should be stopped and islamist should have its own page along with links to the islamic activists and movements involved in the Arab spring revolutions. I request a revote on the islamist to islamism redirect. They are two separate terms with significantly different meanings. Wholetruth123 (talk) 02:31, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:9/11 conspiracy theories

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Please comment on Talk:Berlin

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Image (logo) added by owners of that logo (a community college in US)

I may not the best person to ask. Despite the number of images I've created, I don't know much about image policy, I simply do by example. That said, it would seem that since the uploaders themselves probably don't have rights to the image they can't release it under the Creative Commons themselves. However, if you look at another schools logo, it seems that the image may be appropriately used with a non-free use rationale: Template:Non-free logo. Hyacinth (talk) 07:03, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Texas Revolution

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RfC: The existence of a Civil War section

A user has expressed concerns that your vote on the above RfC on Talk:Sri Lanka is not genuine. I would appreciate if you could make some clarification to break the current deadlock as the user firmly stands by his opinion. Astronomyinertia (talk) 07:16, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

License tagging for File:CEO pay v average slub.png

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RfC input needed

Hi. Input would be appreciated at an RfC. I randomly selected you from the History section of the RfC bot notification list. Please disregard this request if you are too busy or not interested. --Noleander (talk) 15:09, 16 March 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for your time

On behalf of WikiProject Sri Lanka and all Sri Lankan users and as a participant of this discussion I would like to apologise to you for the negative and uncivil comments and responses you received in taking your time to respond to our Rfc. I hope the following events did not discourage you from participating in Rfcs and Sri Lanka related topics in the future. Thank you.--Blackknight12 (talk) 08:16, 20 March 2012 (UTC)

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April 2012

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Please comment on Talk:Balochistan conflict

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Please comment on Talk:United States war crimes

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Alec article

Two particular accounts are camping out on this article, imo, to prevent anything about what it actually does from making it into the article. The organisation's primary purpose is to draft model legislation, yet they've both reverted any mention of the nature of the model bills that Alec has drafted, at every opportunity. As an editor who showed up from COIN commented, the article is mostly a collection of data, with barely anything of substance from reliable sources present in the article at all. I'd invite you to read carefully through the talk page, and certainly to post your concerns there. That's a necessary step in the dispute resolution process. Based on my own experience with the one editor, in particular, the most prolific reverter of the two camped out there, I'm not sanguine as to the likely result, but you certainly need to start there, and perhaps you'll meet with some attempt at cooperation and consensus-editing that I didn't. I do think the preponderance of opinion among recent editors is opposed to the actions of these two, but that won't do any good at all without robust participation on the talk page. Simply complaining in edit summaries won't help change the situation in any way. --OhioStandard (talk) 09:28, 13 May 2012 (UTC)  page temporarily watchlisted

Agreed. Agreed about the two accounts. Agreed about the necessity of talk page discussion. I was in a hurry and outraged by the censorship. --BoogaLouie (talk) 17:55, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

No worries; I do that, too. Good on you for making up for it with your recent posts to the talk page, though: You got things moving again. Besides this reply, I also wanted to add a minor disclosure and technical note, too: I've taken the liberty of calling out your text of your original addition to the article, on the talk page, by using a subtly different background color to distinguish it. You should certainly revert that if you dislike it at all. In a separate edit, I also added a corresponding ("local") references section after your proposed text, via {{|Reflist|local=yes}} so (1) the refs included in your sample text actually show up beneath your post, and (2) those same refs won't "bleed" or "cross over" into any "local reference" sections that may exist or may be created elsewhere on the page. Best, --OhioStandard (talk)

Right then: I need to disclose that I've taken an additional liberty with your previously-added talk page text; you can see the effect here. I modified your original formatting considerably, so my ADD brain could follow your argument more easily, and I changed the wording in a few minor ways to explicitly state what was being discussed, for the same reason. I also changed what I presume was a mistaken mention of Reuters as being the article containing the sentence, "No 'lobbying' was taking place" to Bloomberg BusinessWeek. Feel free to revert any or all changes: I realise my edit is presumptuous, of course, regardless of the good intention that motivated it. Cheers, --OhioStandard (talk) 06:10, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

No problem. (I wanted to make bullet points out of Binksternet's post about all the article on ALEC and lobbying.) Of course I don't want to give you carte blanche to amend my posts but wikpedia is all about improvement! BoogaLouie (talk) 15:13, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

Wow, great minds think alike, as they say. I also wanted break Binksternet's sources out into individual bullet points; perhaps I'll ask him to do so. I'm disappointed that you won't give me carte blanche, though. ;-) Cheers, --OhioStandard (talk) 19:02, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

Additional info on ALEC for editing if someone is able: ||Three States Specifically Exempt ALEC from Lobbyist Laws|| South Carolina, Indiana, and Colorado have specifically exempted ALEC from their lobbying ethics laws.

References

Indiana: reference http://indianalawblog.com/archives/2012/05/08/index.html for background explanation. "Here is the Indiana General Assembly page for HB 1001-2010. Here are the Senate Rules Committee amendments. See p. 4, lines 26-36. The exemptions are now codified at IC 2-7-1-10." http://www.in.gov//apps/lsa/session/billwatch/billinfo?year=2010&request=getBill&docno=1001 and http://www.in.gov/legislative/bills/2010/PDF/SCRP/AM100104.001.pdf

Colorado: http://www.state.co.us/gov_dir/leg_dir/olls/sl2010a/sl_184.htm (section 1c) and others referenced here http://www.gsmlaborcouncil.org/story/alec-gets-break-state-lobbying-laws

Separate info on from initial Indiana post on same blog re prisons: Law - NPR investigation of ALEC, "the birthplace of a thousand pieces of legislation introduced in statehouses across the county" http://indianalawblog.com/archives/2010/10/law_npr_investi.html Frank212202 (talk) 17:32, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Anti-Pakistan sentiment

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Please comment on Talk:Rape during the Bangladesh Liberation War

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Please comment on Talk:Anti-Christian sentiment

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I have summarized the consensus and edited the article Anti-Christian Sentiment accordingly. Please see that it meets your approval. Veritycheck (talk) 20:55, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Sino-Indian War

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Please comment on Talk:Orleigh Court

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WP:BLP reminder

Do not insert the libelous opinion of certain right-wingers into the lead of Hooman Majd, essentially labeling him an Iranian agent, as this is a clear violation of WP:BLP. Homan Majd is an independent respected commentator who regularly appears on CNN and other Amercian networks. If you continue to do this, I will notify Hooman Majd himself, to contact Wikipedia office with a complaint. Kurdo777 (talk)

If you think the nationalpost.com doesn't qualifies as a reliable source, why not just explain your case and not accuse others of libel? Where is there some precident in wikipedia disqualifiying its use?

And since when is adding "He has been described as a “sometimes sympathetic communicator” of the Iranian government's positions," with a citation (<ref name="tweet">{{Cite news |first=Steven |last=Edwards |title=Iranian-American author claims hackers behind offensive tweet about Nazanin Afshin-Jam |url=http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/07/20/iranian-american-author-claims-hackers-behind-offensive-tweet-about-nazanin-afshin-jam/</ref> {{reflist}})

"libelous"? --BoogaLouie (talk) 15:34, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

And what's with the "reminder"? Are you pretending to be an admin? --BoogaLouie (talk) 15:35, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

I don't have to be an admin, to give you a reminder about the core Wikipedia polices you're suppose to know and follow. This was not the first time you had used subjective cherry-picked opinions as mini-quotes (usually negative too) in the lead of a living person's article, which is suppose to be a summary of objective facts. You have been warned, and even blocked once for "WP:BLP violations". So this is not something new. Wikipedia articles, especially the lead sections, are not a place for editorializing, I've been telling you this for years. I hope you saw how the two uninvolved editors who responded to the BLP alert, one of whom is an administrator, raised similar concerns about the edits, and that in future, you would be more careful with sources when it comes to BLPs, and refrain from editorializing/WP:COATing on such articles. Thank you. Kurdo777 (talk) 18:26, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

It is your opinion they are cherry picked and subjective. As I said on the BLP noticeboard here,

if others feel the need I'm happy to add something like "according to the pro-Israeli National Post newspaper." I would have searched for the quote in the original source but I'm at work and time was short. I'm more than happy to change the wording in the article to "Roland Elliott Brown, writing in the Observer, has called Majd `a high-profile explainer of the Iranian regime to American audiences` and `a sometimes sympathetic communicator of the regime's positions, and an enthusiast only for its most loyal oppositionists`", or something shorter.

Anyway I think there is a very big difference between saying `He has been described as a “sometimes sympathetic communicator” of the Iranian government's positions` (my wording), and "essentially calling him an agent of the Iranian regime" (as Kurdo's accuses me).

Why don't I quote what a real admin put on your talk page:

You are playing with words. Unless you are a lawyer, you can't instigate legal action yourself, but implying that you are going to contact the representatives to point out the alleged libel is clearly intended to imply a threat of legal action. If you repeat or carry out the threat to contact the representatives, or make any similar statements, I will block you in accordance with this policy. Don't just keep reverting, discuss. Not also that ISPs do not have to edit under a username. If necessary, I'll protect this page and block who ever needs to be blocked to restore civility Jimfbleak - talk to me? 06:52, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

see also here. Thank you. :-) --BoogaLouie (talk) 19:51, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

See this is the problem , and the reason why I went to noticeboard right away. Trying to talk to you, always leads to exchanges like this. You assume bad faith, and instead of welcoming the message here which is to be mindful of what sources you use on the biographies of living people whose lives could be affected by your editorializing of their pages using questionable sources like fake interviews (Remember what you did on Messbah's page citing a fake satire as fact that he was "condoning raping prisoners" ) or out-of-context cherry-picked negative soundbites about the subject taken from Fox News-like controversial sources, you shoot the messenger and try to justify yourself no matter what you've done. Apparently, you can never be wrong. Oh and there are no "real" or "unreal" admins, all admins are real, trust me, including the ones who have warned and blocked you numerous times. Jimfbleak's main concern was edit-warring on that page, for which he also warned Bink, and later he clarified to me that I could actually contact the article subjects in such cases, to notify them of the status of their Wikipedia article, which is what I meant to do all along, but my intentions were misunderstood, perhaps due to miscommunication on my part. Kurdo777 (talk) 20:42, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

I assume bad faith???? Isn't accusing me of inserting "the libelous opinion of certain right-wingers" an assumption of bad faith??? --BoogaLouie (talk) 21:06, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

Well National Post is indeed a right-wing, some would say neo-con, newspaper and/or tabloid, that's a fact. In this case, I was talking about what you're quoting in the lead of a BLP, not you the individual. Why do you take everything personal? When it comes to sources on BLPs, you tend to shoot first, and then ask questions. To avoid such controversies, all you have to do, is to hold yourself to a higher standard when it comes to sources. Just because you found something unflattering on Google News about someone you may not like, doesn't mean it merits inclusion on that person's Wikipedia bio. That's all I am saying. Kurdo777 (talk) 21:17, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

More of your good faith assumption? "out-of-context cherry-picked negative soundbites", etc.

Why don't I repeat my question:

If you thought the nationalpost.com didn't qualifies as a reliable source, why didn't you explain why on the talk page rather than accusing others of libel? Some sources are banned from wikipedia. Is nationalpost.com one of them? I would not use Fox News or Newsmax as a source, and after reading more about National Post I'd try to avoid using it in the future. It looked like a mainstream newspaper at first glance.

And since when is adding "He has been described as a `sometimes sympathetic communicator` of the Iranian government's positions," with a citation () "libelous"? Or even very negative?

And no, I do not remember "citing a fake satire as fact that Mesbah was 'condoning raping prisoners'" or "out-of-context cherry-picked negative soundbites about the subject taken from Fox News-like controversial sources," etc., etc. What I remember is your accusing me of assorted slanders and lies, cherry-pickings, over the last several years. The problems with National Post could have been explained on the talk page.

You had no reason "to go noticeboard right away" and ignore the article talk page where you could have explained your deletes. --BoogaLouie (talk) 22:02, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

Executive pay in the United States

I finally addressed your question about citations on Executive pay in the United States. Sorry for tardiness. I seem to be having having difficulty seeing comment notices. ENeville (talk) 17:39, 10 October 2012 (UTC)

BTW, perhaps because of inherent limits in the medium, I think you may be hearing that I'm disputing facts when actually all I'm saying is that they need citations. I think there's less opposition than you think. ENeville (talk) 18:32, 14 October 2012 (UTC)

Band Box Diner

I merged your content from Band Box Diner (Minneapolis) to Band Box Diner. It looks like we both started articles on the same topic at last Saturday's editing session. :)

I went there and took pictures on Sunday, and ate there as well. Fairly typical diner food, but I can see why it's a neighborhood institution. --Elkman ^(Elkspeak) 02:12, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

Yours is much improved -- especially the photo. I put (Minneapolis) in the title after I (thought) I found a "Band Box Diner" in another location in a google search, though I'll be damned if I can find it now. --BoogaLouie (talk) 00:13, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

Nomination of Pirouz Davani for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Pirouz Davani is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Pirouz Davani until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article. MSJapan (talk) 19:50, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

Statistical variations - Income inequality

Back in the 1970s a professor told us how statistics are manipulated to fit an agenda. He said that the government’s statistics will show that income inequality is much less than it actually is and another organization may show inequality is much greater. That’s all I remembered. I investigated this and added the Statistical variations section in January or 2010 to the Income inequality in the United States article. Just recently I looked to see if anyone improved my section but it was gone. Checking the article history, I found that the point I was making was reversed. Someone changed my “Various methods ...result in statistically misleading information” to “Various methods... result in statistically similar information”, which is somewhat of the opposite point. You had deleted the section, saying it was “useless and unclear”, which is true since the point I made was reversed. My original section may have been unclear as well but it was the best I could do. You seem to understand the subject much much better than me. I hope you might be able to improve the article by editing the information I attempted to convey and put it back into the article. Let me know if you can do this or maybe you can forward this to someone who can. I’ll try to rephrase my point but it may not clarify it any better. If the income of the top 20% is 15 times more than the bottom 20% then the top 10% would have to be greater and perhaps around 20 or 30 times more than the bottom 10%. Similarly, if the top and bottom 50% were compared the ratio would be even less. This suggests that the CIA is trying to make the U.S. appear to be a much more equitable than it actually is or that the Census Bureau is trying to show greater inequity. This was the original section I added on 25 January 2010:

Statistical variations

Various methods are used to determine income inequality and result in statistically misleading information. For example, the US Census Bureau and the CIA Factbook show about the same 15:1 ratio between top and bottom. However, different methods are used as well as different percentages of the population. One compares top and bottom 20% and the other top and bottom 10%. The methods are obviously different if the ratio resultants are the same. Figures for 2007 are as follows: The Census Bureau states "Share of aggregate income received by households" Lowest 20% = 3.4% of total income and the highest 20% = 49.7%, a ratio of 14.62 to 1. (Reference 1) The CIA Fact Book states "Household income or consumption by percentage share" Lowest 10% = 2.0% of total income and highest 10% = 30.0%, a ratio of 15 to 1. (Reference 2)
(1) www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/us.html The World Factbook] United States, Economy
(2)www.census.gov/compendia/statab/cats/income_expenditures_poverty_wealth.html The National Data Book 2010] US Census, Table 678: Share of Aggregate Income Received by Each Fifth and Top 5 Percent of Households Abject Normality (talk) 20:40, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

Sunni Sufis and Salafi Jihadism

I have tried to create Page with this title Sunni Sufis and Salafi Jihadism.I have seen your contributions in Salafist jihadism.Can you help in improving this page and on discussion related to Deletion Prod. Shabiha (talk) 09:03, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

Hey man, long time no talk. I responded over at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sunni Sufis and Salafi Jihadism - I feel there is some more discussion more appropriate at the AfD page than the article's talk page. Also, do you know a way we could collect more feedback? It seems that there's only two of us paying attention to this discussion right now. MezzoMezzo (talk) 04:13, 24 February 2013 (UTC)

Hi! Dear I will request You to not go ahead with Merging it in any other Article.I have done a lot of work in making/developing this Article from various angles.If there is POV that can be easily removed but the topic is really important and wikipedia-a leader in Internet Knowledge base resources should reflect recent changes.Read How it has been discussed. [3]. Shabiha (talk) 12:49, 2 March 2013 (UTC)

I'm sorry I have to agree with Mezzo that the article is one sided. At the very least stories like this http://www.jamestown.org/single/?no_cache=1&tx_ttnews%5Btt_news%5D=39288

should be added: ("Scores of Deobandi leaders and members of Ahle Sunnat wal Jamat (ASWJ, formerly the banned Sipah-e-Sahaba Pakistan) have been assassinated in Karachi in recent years. Police sources say that the Sunni Tehrik, a Barelvi organization, is behind most of these assassinations.") --BoogaLouie (talk) 21:36, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

But where would we add it, you know what I mean? The article seems unworkable because most of that material could be merged to about four different articles. Deobandis are Sufis themselves, so how do mutual mafia-like assassinations between them and Barelvis relate to Salafis? I would say just moving the sourced material out and building up existing articles would be better. The only academic scholar who made a point to specifically address Sufi-Salafi relations (that I know of) is Jonathan C. Brown, and it wasn't even the sole topic of the research paper which I have in mind. Like I said, maybe in a few years there will be enough published material for this article, but right now it contains a bunch of unrelated information seemingly to justify its existence. I'm looking forward to seeing the suggested merge. MezzoMezzo (talk) 04:03, 6 March 2013 (UTC)

Agreed, the preferred solution is moving the sourced material out and building up existing articles --BoogaLouie (talk) 17:59, 6 March 2013 (UTC)

It seems the AfD was closed with no consensus. The article is an obvious POV fork, though I have a feeling that attempts to perform a proper merger and remove inappropriate content will start an edit war with the article's creator. Do you know what else we could do? MezzoMezzo (talk) 04:14, 9 March 2013 (UTC)

I suspect you know more about wikipedia rules and regs than I. Put some tags on it? There seems to be lots of unsourced material. I'm surprised you didn't get more support.

The natural merger for the issued I didn't cover in the Persecution section is something like Deobandi Barlevi conflict. But there are some issues there that I don't know enough about. Some Deobandi seem to be involved in the shrine attacks in Pakistan. If Deobandi are sufi or have significant numbers of sufi members in good standing, are those sufis ones that oppose shrines for sufi saints? Or paying homage to saints? Praying to saints for intercession (Tawassul)? Or do they have no problem with the shrines and are at odds with Deobandi-school Lashkar-i-Jhangvi Sipah-e-Sahaba Pakistan (SSP) even in the LJ SSP goals, never mind means? I remember reading once that the sophisticates at the Darul Uloom Deoband looked askance at the (poorly educated) Deobandi mullahs of the 10,000s of Madrasas in Pakistan and the Madrasas teaching Afghan refugees. Is there a doctrinal split? --BoogaLouie (talk) 18:57, 9 March 2013 (UTC)

Now you came to right questions.The Deobandis are Indian wahabis as the articles states,they don't celebrate Mawlid,a festival approved by all Islamic countries except by Saudi Arabia and Qatar.Deoband has official fatwa against it.Their organizations have killed Muslims celebrating it.

• You will not find a single prominent Deobandi scholar/Member celebrating Urs birth or death anniversary of Sufi Saint.
• You will not find them building tomb and going there for visit which is most common practice of Sufis in the world.
• Muraqba and other practices are Biddah to them.
• You will not find them doing Tawassul or intercession.
• Majority of South Asian Muslims accepts and entered in to all major Sufi silsilas like Qadiri Chishti,Naqshbandi,Soharwardy.They add one of the title into their names and visit Khanqah a Sufi centre but Deobandis are not involved in these things.They use false claims of being Sufis,just to defraud rest of the world,to gain advantage and to strengthen their own ideology.They invites Wahabi Imams of Saudi Arabia into their Mosques to lead prayers ,they don't oppose Wahabism rather receives regular funds from them for their institutions.Wahabism don't oppose them any where in the world.Their organizations along with Salafi jehadis are waging war against Sufi institutions in the name of shirk and Biddah.Earlier these Deobandis hide their beliefs and benefited from Sufi powers.The teachings of Muhammad bin Abdul wahab are trust worthy to all Deobandis.Their Tablighi Jamaat hide its faith to get maximum benefit from Muslim masses.In Afghanistan and Pakistan they have joined Taliban,Al Qaida,Lashkar etc to kill Sufi symbols.You will never find a Deobandi voice opposing attacks against Sufism.They are partner of Salafi Jehad against Sufism.Read , Deobandi Wahabism,imposing foreign ideology [4] Shia;s view Takfiri Deobandi.Thanks.You are welcome to help me in this regard at Sufi Salafi relations. Shabiha (talk) 21:59, 9 March 2013 (UTC)

Shabiha, what you're saying here is beyond ridiculous.

Deobandis are not Wahhabis, as confirmed on the article. I don't know why you would claim otherwise.

Deobandis are traditionally adherents to the Naqshbandi order, in addition to others, as confirmed on the article. Why would you even claim otherwise? It makes no sense.

A large number of Salafi Jihadists make takfir, or excommunicate, Deobandis.

All of this is confirmed on the articles in question.

BoogaLouie, I'm sorry that our convo was interrupted. If you hadn't noticed, Shabiha is engaging in a number of controversial edits and comments across multiple articles, and this is one of them. I think this problem needs to be solved before I can give your questions a more cogent response, unfortunately. MezzoMezzo (talk) 03:42, 10 March 2013 (UTC)

Your Assistance

If you have some time kindly assist me in neutralizing and removing blatant POV content from Salafi , Wahabi Articles.There I found several non neutral ,unverefiable, highly biased partisan sources praising the movements.Some were forums and some were dead links.The Articles are there since many years supporting un discussed POV.I have found you great objective editor who has really spend his much time in solving problems on wikipedia.Your inputs on talk pages may help in keeping these articles neutral. Shabiha (talk) 21:09, 9 March 2013 (UTC)

I'm flattered by your comments but already have numerous articles I've been meaning to get back to to edit. If you have a RfC or something like that about non neutral, unverifiable, highly biased partisan sources in these articles, leave a message on my page. I know it's very difficult and time consuming to try and make edits that clash with partisans of a point of view. BoogaLouie (talk) 21:44, 9 March 2013 (UTC)

....
Please help edit the Salafi rulings of Salat and Islamic_views_on_sin . Thanks. - Verycuriousboy (talk) 06:45, 24 May 2014 (UTC)

RfC input needed

Hi my friend.Input would be appreciated at an RfC and also at an RfC .Please comment. Shabiha (talk) 22:44, 9 March 2013 (UTC)

Deobandis and Barelvis

Returning to your questions, I hope I can provide some clarity - this time without interruption.

Yes, Deobandis have been involved in shrine attacks. Some Deobandis also participate in the worship rituals at these shrines. Like other large movements, Deobandism is not monolithic and there are splits - just like with Barelvis.

Not all Sufis accept shrines for saints; this is a misconception based on Sufis who DO accept shrines promoting their view as the only valid view in Sufism.

Tawassul is a controversial issue. Deobandis allow it in general but they do it in a different way than Barelvis. Even the Salafis are split, and some of them allow tawassul too.

Deobandis are 100% Sufi but again, in a way which is different than Barelvis. Deobandis are traditionally adherents of the Naqshbandi Sufi order. Barelvis deny this due to animosity between the groups, and as you will notice even with Barelvi editors here, most of them brand all non-Barelvis are being the same and being Wahhabis.

Lashkar Jaingvi and Sipa Sahaba are splinter groups, just like Gama'ha Islamiyya was a splinter group of the Muslim Brotherhood. They came from the same ideology but when they branched off, they essentially because a sub-faction outside of the group's mainstream.

Deobandis are currently experiencing huge doctrinal splits according to my Pakistani friends. The movement and its leaders do their best to hide this as they feel it's a private matter for the movement to discuss with its members only, but there's definitely a split.

Part of the problem consists of statements by Barelvis and others that Sufism means saint worship, visiting graves and shouting "O Prophet of Allah!" A perusal of the Sufism article will show that the meaning of Sufism has changed through different times and places, and nobody can lay exclusive ownership to the term. That's a lot of writing but I hope that it gave you the answers you need.

Anyway...about Sufi-Salafi relations. It didn't garner enough support because Shabiha essentially flooded the discussion page, otherwise it wouldn't have lasted. What do you suggest doing now? You already merged some material out; would it be better to just work on the article, merge out unrelated material, delete unsourced or non-NPOV material, and try to salvage it? If so, would you be willing to help some more? MezzoMezzo (talk) 04:11, 11 March 2013 (UTC)

Oh Lordy, this is making my head hurt. I promised myself I'd work on causes of the subprime bubble and 1953 Iranian coup, but yes, your proposals some sensible and I will try to make time for this article too.

But anyways, thank you for the info. My main field is/was Islamism -- Shia and Sunni -- my knowledge of Sufism was and is limited. --BoogaLouie (talk) 16:53, 11 March 2013 (UTC)

All of us have our specialties and limitations. I'm actually not a specialist on any topic relating to Islam - I am a hobbyist, and I only infrequently edit articles about my own academic/professional specialty (technical communication). It's all about what you can provide.

Look man, work on what makes you happy. I only made a suggestion because I've seen your edits for, what, six years now? And I know that you don't push any agendas.

Anyway, there are holy sites to Sufis other than tombs. In Tunisia, the Sufis will commonly say that aside from Mecca and Medina, there are five other mosques in the Muslim world which they also consider holy mosques. But at least 80% of the holy sites in Sufi Islam are tombs, yes. Sufism has had a big emphasis on pious predecessors and saints, quite different from the emphasis of Sufism at its beginning when it was only for the learned; now, it's mostly for laymen and has changed considerably as a movement. Not surprising giving its age. Would you like help on the Sufi holy sites article? MezzoMezzo (talk) 03:29, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

Sounded a little mopy I'm afraid. I should probably stick to Sufi-Salafi relations. Seems like Holiest sites in Sufi Islam needs a lot of work but I've already started on Sufi-Salafi, so I'll try to make progress there. --BoogaLouie (talk) 23:37, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

That's cool; Sufi-Salafi relations seems to be the more problematic piece. When that's wrapped up, I could take a look at Sufi holy sites as well. Also do you know a new user called "johnleeds"? He's been looking for people who would help with gradual changes to various Islam-related articles. MezzoMezzo (talk) 03:27, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

BTW, do you remember which parts of the article you merged out? It would be reasonable to remove those portions from the main article since they exist elsewhere on WP. There are other things to be done, but I think this aspect might shorten the overall article and make copyediting and neutralizing the remaining portions easier. MezzoMezzo (talk) 17:14, 16 March 2013 (UTC)

For the "Persecution" section I pretty much rewrote and re-researched everything except the Pakistan section which I reckoned (following what you said and other things on the internet I read said) was not a clear cut case of persecution of Sufis. Ideally this shouldn't eliminate the need for sections in the Sufi-Salafi relations article focusing on relations between the two groups rather than what bad things that have been done to Sufis. At the rate I'm going though, the ideal won't be done any time soon. --BoogaLouie (talk) 17:45, 20 March 2013 (UTC) --BoogaLouie (talk) 17:45, 20 March 2013 (UTC)

That's cool, slow and heavy swings the club as I once read on a Magic: The Gathering playing card. The work you've done so far is great. I will see what else I could help with as well. MezzoMezzo (talk) 11:18, 21 March 2013 (UTC)

Modudi and theodemocracy

In Pakistani sense and in other Sunni Muslim countries, theocracy means "government of clerics". Within Islamist discourse, theocracy is a separate idea from an 'civil Islamic state'. Modudi never talked about "theo-democracy". In his book "Khilafet o mlookiat" he has condemned the whole idea of distinct institution of clergy in Islam. he was simply a "Islamist democrat", not a "theodemocrat". --Ahmed 313-326 (talk) 01:49, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

I'm afraid we have reliable sources stating otherwise. We cannot take your sayso on this. --BoogaLouie (talk) 19:35, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Ferenc Szaniszló

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Just so you're aware

I went ahead and renamed the article Mubarak era; it is now entitled "History of Egypt under Hosni Mubarak". As the creator and primary editor of the page, I figured you'd like to know about this. If you disagree with the decision, bring it up at the article's talk page and we can discuss what to do from there — or, you can follow one of the steps listed at dispute resolution to get an outside perspective.

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Ahmed 313-326

If Ahmed 313-326 returns to editing then you can bring it back to DRN. I can do nothing about the inactivity of the editor. Least you tried to work it out. ChrisGualtieri (talk) 12:14, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of James Partnership

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A tag has been placed on James Partnership requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A7 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be about an organization or company, but it does not indicate how or why the subject is important or significant: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, such articles may be deleted at any time. Please read more about what is generally accepted as notable.

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Opinion pieces

Your recent edit to the article on the Salafi movement used an opinion piece (US-English think piece) as a source. Please read Wikipedia:Identifying reliable sources. Opinion pieces are only considered reliable sources for statements of the writer's opinion. I suggest that you look in Robin Wright's other publications to see if he/she made similar observations in something that Wikipedia considers a reliable source.--Toddy1 (talk) 20:35, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

I don't think wright's position that until the last decade or so salafi were generally apolitical is controversial but will try to find a less problematic source saying so. --BoogaLouie (talk) 21:09, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

Re: Sufi Salafi relations

Really awesome work, but I'm about to go handle something out of the office. Once I get back, I will go through the article thoroughly so I can give you a more cogent response. Hopefully, we can remove more of those templates at the top of the article. MezzoMezzo (talk) 06:30, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

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Credit rating agency

Hello there BoogaLouie, I am excited to see that you are putting some attention on the Credit rating agency article. It really, really needs it.

Over time I have worked with other editors to make improvements to some articles about Moody's Investors Service. My focus is not random: I have actually done so as an outside consultant to Moody's. This does not mean they dictate the content of my contributions: they have expressed their views of issues to me, however the research and writing and the drafts I have offered are my own work, following Wikipedia's policies and guidelines with regard to NPOV, reliable sources and so on. In addition, because I care very much about following WP:COI guidelines I have not directly edited one of these articles in a very long time.

Meanwhile, there has been concern that the CRA article is not very helpful to readers to understand the industry, and I've been researching new sections and considering working on existing ones. On the article's discussion page, you will see I have proposed some changes in recent months. Just a few minutes ago I posted a suggestion to the article about how to handle the "Big Three" topic and while I realize it is a different direction than you have taken this topic recently, I am interested to hear your feedback on my suggestions. And if you are interested, I've just about finished a "History of credit rating agencies" section, and I'd like to help improve the "Uses" and "Criticism" sections too. Please let me know if you are interested, and I will also watch that article for a reply. Many thanks, Mysidae (talk) 22:39, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

Mohammad Bagher Ghalibaf

Hi. On this edit, you also restored copyvio content which I recently removed. Could you do your edit on the last version?Farhikht (talk) 17:59, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

Nomination of Concerns for an early Mars sample return for deletion

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Muammar Gaddafi tone

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Credit rating agency - History

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Continuing discussion of "Credit rating agency"

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Credit rating agency - Role in capital markets update

Hi there, BoogaLouie. Just touching base here to see if you've had a chance to review the "Role in capital markets" draft I posted several weeks ago on the CRA talk page. I just posted an update there noting the previous request for review and linking to a revamped version of my proposed structure for the entire article. Do let me know if there's anything else I can do facilitate the review process. I do appreciate you taking the time to look over all of this. Many thanks again, Mysidae (talk) 19:16, 11 December 2013 (UTC)

Hey Mysidea, sorry to take so long. Lots of sources and such. Will some rewrites I've been working on. Not done yet. --BoogaLouie (talk) 22:03, 11 December 2013 (UTC)

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I'm back

Hey man, sorry for not helping much the last time you asked. I won't bore you, but my laptop is basically useless now. Just twenty minutes ago, I got this new computer up and runing. I kind of have to go soon, but starting tomorrow I should be able to edit daily or every two days again, so if you need another pair of eyes on anything I will be happy to oblige. MezzoMezzo (talk) 05:15, 28 September 2014 (UTC)

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ISIS

Please read the text before adding edits. Most of your edit in "Human rights abuses" today was already there, as were your citations. --P123ct1 (talk) 14:35, 8 October 2014 (UTC)

reply

reply to this. I had read text before adding edits. I know most of my edit in "Human rights abuses" today "was already there, as were [my] citations". (How could I not? the citations I added -- <ref name=reuters-scores/> <ref name=UN-1000/> <ref name=un-2000/> <ref name=un-executes/> -- were based on the originals! )

I wanted to add a quick summary of what ISIS is accused of. I put it to you that the lay person reading the article is interested firstly in what ISIS is accused of doing and not who the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights is, or what he has appealed to world leaders to do.

ISIS/ISIL/Islamic State is an extremely topical issue and frankly this article does not reflect well on wikipedia. --BoogaLouie (talk) 22:27, 8 October 2014 (UTC)

If it was already there, I can't understand why you needed to repeat it. There are two sections where the current criticisms of ISIL can go: "Human rights and abuses" and "Criticism of the "Islamic State". Have you noticed that last one?I was the one responsible for opening that section recently for editors to record exactly the sort of thing you are talking about: world outrage at what ISIL are doing. I am glad to see that edits are being made to this section daily now. --P123ct1 (talk) 22:39, 8 October 2014 (UTC)

"Criticism of the "Islamic State" is made up of comments by people and groups criticizing ISIS. "Human rights and abuses" is what the group has done to prisoners of war, civilians, and girls and women from shia and minority groups. What I am "talking about" is what ISIS has done and is doing, not how much people and groups don't like it. --BoogaLouie (talk) 22:54, 8 October 2014 (UTC)

I see what you mean now. As the article is currently constructed, the best place for your general statement would be in "As Islamic State" (2.2.4 of the "History" section), where you will see the last entry is a brief summary comment on ISIL's treatment of the Yazidis (expanded on in "Human rights abuses"). Main events that have been happening since the group became the Islamic State are being chronicled there. (The timeline article is much more detailed.) You may want to put your edit in there. My apologies for dismissing it in the way I did, but until now I didn't understand what you meant by it. --P123ct1 (talk) 13:48, 10 October 2014 (UTC)

OK, I see your point. I'll try there. --BoogaLouie (talk) 21:21, 10 October 2014 (UTC)

Good.  :) --P123ct1 (talk) 22:21, 10 October 2014 (UTC)

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Speedy deletion nomination of Jamaat-e-Islami (historic)

Hello BoogaLouie,

I wanted to let you know that I just tagged Jamaat-e-Islami (historic) for deletion, because it doesn't appear to contain any encyclopedic content. Take a look at our suggestions for essential content in short articles to learn what should be included.

If you feel that the article shouldn't be deleted and want more time to work on it, you can contest this deletion, but please don't remove the speedy deletion tag from the top.

You can leave a note on my talk page if you have questions. WikiOriginal-9 (talk) 20:28, 2 November 2014 (UTC)

Please note this conversation here. Am attempting to create a more useful article on a party will replace the disambugation page. --BoogaLouie (talk) 21:01, 2 November 2014 (UTC)

ISIS - Kurds

Hello, there. Just a courtesy note to say I stupidly reverted moved your Kurd edit to another section, thinking the Kurds were not a minority group. I checked afterwards and found that they are, so reverted my revert change. Many apologies. ~ P123ct1 (talk) 04:07, 5 November 2014 (UTC)

They're an ethnic minority but not a religious minority, and it's the religious minorities that are particularly targeted by IS, so I could see how someone would think the sentence doesn't belong there. --BoogaLouie (talk) 18:40, 5 November 2014 (UTC)

Jamaat-e-Islami

I don't know if the disambiguation should be changed. You can if you want but you will have to fix the redirects that pointed to previous page. WikiOriginal-9 (talk) 18:19, 10 November 2014 (UTC)

Good idea. WikiOriginal-9 (talk) 18:41, 10 November 2014 (UTC)

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Ahmadiyyah

Thank you for looking up the source and for helping in the article, but I apologize to say that the information you provided makes no sense. The Ahmadiyyah have always believed that the Prophethood of their founder is "reflective". The author you quoted is mistaken for not a Single other source exists which says that any reconciliation was arranged. And as he says that this did not go through he has very "conveniently" side stepped the need to provide proof. To be honest without any written proof this is just a "conspiracy theory" which is not notable enough to be mentioned in an encyclopedia.

Ahmadiyyah have always believed in the presence of three types of Prophethood. They have always believed that the founder is the Mahdi. This has never changed. I hope I can convince you to self revertFreeatlastChitchat (talk) 03:39, 4 January 2015 (UTC)

What I wrote says "According to Charles Kennedy". Kennedy is a reputable academic, who's spent many years in Pakistan. Do you disagree that there was a change in doctrine that a "reflective" prophet is a third kind of prophet? not on the same par as Isa?

What Kennedy is saying or at least suggesting AFAICT is not that "any reconciliation was arranged" but that Mahmud Ahmad hoped that this adjustment in doctrine would calm the rage of the anti-Ahmadi.

Ahmadiyyah have always believed in the presence of three types of Prophethood. Then why does the article say However, there are two kinds of prophethood as understood by the Community -- after your edit?

I will get back to this inshallah after I'm done with other edits. --BoogaLouie (talk) 15:26, 4 January 2015 (UTC)

Islamic modernism

What does it mean " (The connection between the "Salafi Movement" of Jamal al-Din al-Afghani and Muhammad Abduh and modernism is noted by some, [4] [5] [6] while others say Islamic Modernism only influenced Salafism. "?

Do you mean to say " The connection between the "Salafi Movement" of Jamal al-Din al-Afghani and Muhammad Abduh and "Salafism" is noted by some, [4] [5] [6] while others say Islamic Modernism only influenced Salafism.?

Did you write Modernism in place of Salafism? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ejaz92 (talk • contribs) 13:45, 10 January 2015 (UTC)

In English people assume "Salafi Movement" and Salafism are the same. I have never seen an English language source that distinguished between "Salafi Movement" and Salafism. Have you found one? Or how about an arabic or urdu source that says this?

I changed [Islamic Modernism] "has also been called Salafi Movement [4] [5] [6] while others say Islamic Modernism only influenced Salafism", to

"The connection between the `Salafi Movement` of Jamal al-Din al-Afghani and Muhammad Abduh and modernism is noted by some, [4] [5] [6] while others say Islamic Modernism only influenced Salafism"

because the sources ([4] [5] [6]) don't really say Islamic Modernism "has also been called Salafi Movement".

They suggest it. They talk about how modernist the original salafi movement of Jamal al-Din al-Afghani was. But they don't call the Islamic Modernist movement the Salafi Movement. --BoogaLouie (talk) 15:29, 10 January 2015 (UTC)

You are right " In English people assume Salafi Movement and Salafism are the same".

When I wrote " Islamic Modernism "has also been called Salafi Movement" it does not meant I am equating Islamic modernism with cotemporary Salafism or Salafi Movement rather I am just talking about the naming of this particular movement (islamic modernism) led by jamal ud din, md. abduh and rashid rida.You also said the same we you quoted " The early Islamic Modernists (al-Afghani and Muhammad Abdu) used the term "salafiyya" to refer to their attempt at renovation of Islamic thought, [3] and this "salafiyya movement" is often known in the West as `Islamic modernism,`".

Now come to my objection:

you wrote " The connection between the `Salafi Movement` of Jamal al-Din al-Afghani and Muhammad Abduh and modernism is noted by some, [4] [5] [6] ".

You tried to show that salafi movement was led by afghani and abduh while islamic modernism was a different thing.The two had only some connections.

Where is it mentioned in the ref: 4,5, and 6 that the `Salafi Movement` of Jamal al-Din al-Afghani and Muhammad Abduh and modernism was not the same thing?Infact the islamic modernism was founded by afghani and abduh and they themselves gave their it the name salafi movement.

Do you think a person(Md abduh) can lead two difderent movements at the same time? No it was a single movement but with the two name.

You can take the reference from your own edit :

The early Islamic Modernists (al-Afghani and Muhammad Abdu) used the term "salafiyya" to refer to their attempt at renovation of Islamic thought, [3] and this "salafiyya movement" is often known in the West as `Islamic modernism,`" although it is very different from what is currently called Salafism , which generally signifies "ideologies such as wahhabism". [3] So if you dont think that ref. 4,5,6 support my argument then use your own reference ref..no.3.

A good solution is to delete this sentence.Start the article with : " Islamic Modernismalso called as salafi movement " ...............

use the reference no.3. plus if you are agree use ref. no.4,5& 6. these references also talk about the the same same movement (Islamic movement) of afgani, Abduh and rashid rida but used the name of salafi movement.As it says :" In terms of their respective formation, Wahhabism and Salafism were quite distinct.Wahhabism was a pared-down Islam that rejected modern influences, while Salafism sought to reconcile Islam with modernism." (ref:5) Ejaz92 (talk) 11:06, 16 January 2015 (UTC)

You tried to show that salafi movement was led by afghani and abduh while islamic modernism was a different thing.

You are right. I misspoke (misedited) This has got to change.

A good solution is to delete this sentence.Start the article with : " Islamic Modernismalso called as salafi movement "

No can do. In contemporary English usage saying Islamic Modernism is a synonym for salafi movement, just confuses people. I will make a change and then we can argue about that and maybe do a Request for Comment --BoogaLouie (talk) 18:38, 16 January 2015 (UTC)

I did not say that salafi movement (led by afghani and abduh) and islamic modernism was a different thing.You tried to say that.I said these two were the same movement. But the sect thar is called salafism in present time is not the salafi movement of afghani and abduh.You can see it in " influence on salafism" sectio. Ejaz92 (talk) 18:54, 16 January 2015 (UTC)

See if you like this: (The origins of contemporary Salafism in the the modernist "Salafi Movement" of Jamal al-Din al-Afghani and Muhammad Abduh and is noted by some, while others say Islamic Modernism only influenced contemporary Salafism.)

ok. Good solution. Ejaz92 (talk) 06:50, 17 January 2015 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ejaz92 (talk • contribs) 06:43, 17 January 2015 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Guy Fawkes mask

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Don't change back sources on the LGBT RIGHTS IN Saudi Arabia page

The author you spoke of never actually visited in Saudi Arabia and I've consulted with people who lives there and tells me that homosexuality doesn't exist, the amount of homosexuals there are so low that it's basically non-exisitant. I'm giving you one more warning if you undo my edit one ore time I'll report you for starting an edit war. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.50.138.253 (talk) 19:54, 20 January 2015 (UTC)

I quoted four journalists/writers: Whitaker, Bradley, Lobi, and Lacey. They have all have spent a lot of time in Saudi. --BoogaLouie (talk) 21:20, 22 January 2015 (UTC)

DYK for Hassan Tehrani Moghaddam

Harrias ^talk 01:29, 25 January 2015 (UTC)

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Barnstar

		The Pakistan Barnstar of National Merit
		Great work with the revamp of Muhammad Zia-ul-Haq's Islamization and Islamic economics in Pakistan (and other articles, if I've missed any!). I can see the massive and painstaking effort it must have taken to completely rewrite and expand those articles. The end product is two brilliantly written and very informative articles :) Mar4d (talk) 13:43, 17 February 2015 (UTC)

I am deeply honored. Thank you. --BoogaLouie (talk) 14:59, 17 February 2015 (UTC)

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Nasser lead

Hi, regarding your changes to the lead of Gamal Abdel Nasser, I reverted them because they repeat what's already stated in the lead (not just the body of the article). The lead is already quite long, and if anything it might need to be shortened a bit (without sacrificing important info or structure). I understand your intention here, but the summary-within-summary is unnecessary and makes the lead even longer than it should be. Also, there's too many generalities and contestable descriptions in the summary you added, but that's another matter. --Al Ameer (talk) 01:41, 13 June 2015 (UTC)

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Balochistan, Pakistan

All I add is deleted, I get block if I restore, what best course of action? you info was deleted as well The last Watch (talk) 14:24, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

Not sure what what best course of action is. Will have to investigate --BoogaLouie (talk) 22:53, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

Friendly advice

You have good record and with 23,000+ edits you are highly experienced user and you seem to be very neutral editor, why don't you nominate yourself at Wikipedia:Requests for permissions/Rollback, Wikipedia:Requests for permissions/Pending changes reviewer and Wikipedia:Requests for permissions/Autopatrolled. You should become Rollbacker, Pending changes reviewer to serve Wikipedia in more better way. Thank you. --Human3015 Call me maybe!! • 21:07, 24 June 2015 (UTC)

Balochistan

Hi Booga, I've tried to make the dispute at Balochistan known to a few WikiProjects Notice board for Pakistan-related topics‎, WikiProject Geography, and WikiProject Human Rights. If you have any other thoughts for WikiProjects I should contact, I'm all ears. History? I'd like to get a wide range of opinions. Thanks, Cyphoidbomb (talk) 15:34, 26 June 2015 (UTC)

Thank you Cyphoid. Ya, I think history would be good. But I'm not sure how to proceed. I think I should ask the two admins. --BoogaLouie (talk) 16:38, 26 June 2015 (UTC)

Thomas W is not an admin, if that's who you meant. Drmies is. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 18:26, 26 June 2015 (UTC)

My mistake. Maybe I should try Drmies then. --BoogaLouie (talk) 18:31, 26 June 2015 (UTC)

Drmies is cool. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 19:44, 26 June 2015 (UTC)

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Balochistan

Hey BL: FYI [5] Your trim removed Edward's comment and now your sig is missing. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 19:14, 30 July 2015 (UTC)

Oh wait, that was just a quote, right? Cyphoidbomb (talk) 19:15, 30 July 2015 (UTC)

Oops. added my signature. Yes, I was quoting from the Talk:Balochistan page. The post was more about personalities than I would have preferred but ... --BoogaLouie (talk) 20:18, 30 July 2015 (UTC)

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Presidency of Religious Affairs

I have just removed some content that appears to have been copied directly from http://www.turkeyanalyst.org/publications/turkey-analyst-articles/item/463-the-rise-of-diyanet-the-politicization-of-turkey%E2%80%99s-directorate-of-religious-affairs.html, a copyright web page. Unfortunately your edits of 01:36 and 01:40 were lost in the process as there was an edit conflict. Please don't copy material here from other sources. Everything you add has to be written in your own words please. — Diannaa (talk) 01:46, 30 July 2016 (UTC)

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Setad

Please review the article and let me know your opinions on my recent edits in response to your points in its talk page. I am not a native English speaker. Thank you in advance. Farhoudk (talk) 09:10, 21 November 2016 (UTC)

Sure, I will take a look at it and make it more idiomatic. --BoogaLouie (talk) 22:23, 21 November 2016 (UTC)

Am doing some rewriting and adding as well. --BoogaLouie (talk) 03:00, 22 November 2016 (UTC)

Thanks. Farhoudk (talk) 06:15, 22 November 2016 (UTC)

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SAYWHERE

Hi-- Just a note on citation style. Per WP:SAYWHERE, we should explicitly note when we're citing a source we haven't consulted ourselves. That way if another editor wants to verify the statement and possibly rewrite it, they can do that based on the consulted source. Otherwise, we're in effect requiring them to consult multiple, potentially inaccessible sources, which weren't actually used directly, before they can make a change. It's a sore point for me, because I've struggled with issues of this kind before. Thanks. Eperoton (talk) 19:22, 6 March 2017 (UTC)

@Eperoton: OK, thanks. Will bear it in mind. --BoogaLouie (talk) 02:44, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

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Have attempted to satisfy complaints of talk regarding the article. -BoogaLouie (talk) 16:02, 15 August 2017 (UTC)

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RfC: suggestion

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IslamQA

Hi BoogaLouie. I'm glad to see the great work you've been doing lately on Islam-related articles. Just a word of caution on IslamQA. This site promotes a Salafi perspective. It's quite prominent and we can cite it with attribution, but we shouldn't use it as a RS for generalizations about other schools of thoughts, which are sometimes tendentious. Eperoton (talk) 03:45, 24 July 2018 (UTC)

Can't disagree. Thought IslamQA would be pretty authoritative on traditional punishment (and traditional much else) but will do further research for other sources. --BoogaLouie (talk) 17:05, 24 July 2018 (UTC)

Thanks. There's tradition and there's tradition. Salafis tend to have less regard to the body of classical fiqh and interpret the scriptures on their own. Here's one example where someone tried to pass IslamQA as representing Sunni Islam, and I happened to come across a passage in a RS that shed some light: Kafir#Muhammad's_parents. I don't believe al-Munajjid would make deliberate distortions about classical fiqh, but when he's making generalizations about it, I would exercise caution. For punishments a great source is Crime and punishment in Islamic law by Rudolph Peters, aside from academic encyclopedias. Eperoton (talk) 03:23, 25 July 2018 (UTC)

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Wikipedia writing style

Try to paraphrase content from the source rather than taking chunks of it and adding quotation marks (i.e. "quoting" from the source). Wikipedia is not a research paper or an academic essay. You should try to use quotes as little as possible, limiting it to instances where you need to, such as when you are quoting a statement. Copying large parts from your source and adding quotes is not paraphrasing, so try your best to rewrite sentences or ideas. Keep up the great contributions, and all the best. CentreLeftRight ✉ 02:00, 18 October 2018 (UTC)

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Kind of well-written,and has lots of sources, but this organization has no coverage in reliable sources. Only a passing mention in some news articles.

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Wikipedia Day 2019

There's discussion at Wikipedia talk:Meetup/Minnesota of a celebration in the Twin Cities on January 19. It would be great if that fits your schedule. Jonathunder (talk) 01:00, 12 December 2018 (UTC)

FYI — include from

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how-much-did-russian-interference-affect-the-2016-election?

At your discretion. Humanengr (talk) 03:09, 27 December 2018 (UTC)

@Humanengr: thank you --BoogaLouie (talk) 17:51, 27 December 2018 (UTC)

• Hi there BoogaLouie, thanks for your helpful contributions to the Russian interference article... just writing to ask that you keep WP:QUOTEFARM in mind if you're not already. There's an excessive amount of quotation in the article and several editors feel that the article is too long. We can make the article more encyclopedic by paraphrasing the source content we add, as concisely as possible but hopefully without losing its essence. R2 (bleep) 17:15, 10 January 2019 (UTC)

@Ahrtoodeetoo: Hi R2D2. I have used a lot of quoted material on the grounds that it avoids some of the question of accuracy of paraphrasing. But I do also try to paraphrase as much as I can. About adding material to the already-too-long article, see my comment on the talk page. --BoogaLouie (talk) 20:15, 10 January 2019 (UTC)

I just saw your user page. Your real name is Booga Louie? :-) R2 (bleep) 04:11, 24 January 2019 (UTC)

no. pseudonym. nom de wikipedia --BoogaLouie (talk) 18:25, 24 January 2019 (UTC)

Ok gotcha. R2 (bleep) 18:47, 24 January 2019 (UTC)

Mia Art+Feminism edit-a-thon

Mia Art+Feminism Edit-a-Thon

Hello Louis P. Boog. You are invited to attend an Art+Feminism edit-a-thon at the Minneapolis Institute of Art (Mia) on Saturday, March 9, 2019 from noon to 4pm. Art+Feminism is an international campaign where people come together to improve coverage of women and the arts on Wikipedia. During the edit-a-thon we will be updating and creating Wikipedia articles on subjects related to gender, art, and feminism, with a focus on artists represented in Mia's collection Date: Saturday, March 9, 2019 Location: Minneapolis Institute of Art, 2400 Third Avenue South, Minneapolis Please sign up here

Traditionist

Hi, BoogaLouie. You're right "traditionist" has been used to translate two different Arabic terms ahl al-hadith and muhaddith. I've looked into this before for Traditionalist_theology_(Islam)#Terminology and the former seems to be the more prevalent usage, but we can create a dab page. I don't know where you got the usage of ashab al-hadith as synonymous with muhaddith. I checked your Brown citation, and he clearly uses it as synonymous with ahl al-hadith, like other sources I've seen. We even cite this variant in the opening sentence. Eperoton (talk) 02:20, 28 February 2019 (UTC)

check Demythologizing the Qur’an Rethinking Revelation Through Naskh al-Qur’an, the cite is given with the edit. --BoogaLouie (talk) 02:47, 28 February 2019 (UTC)

I did, but I didn't see ashab al-hadith used there at all. Eperoton (talk) 03:20, 28 February 2019 (UTC)

My mistake. The cite is

I accidently discarded it when I copied from Hadith_studies#Muhaddith:_scholar_of_hadith.

--BoogaLouie (talk) 15:26, 28 February 2019 (UTC)

• Brown, Daniel W. (1996). Rethinking tradition in modern Islamic thought. Cambridge University Press. ISBN 0521570778. Retrieved 10 May 2018.

Yes, I checked the other citation too. Brown defines ashab al-hadith as the "partisans of tradition" who opposed ahl al-ra'y and ahl al-kalam in polemical debates. To me that clearly indicates that he uses ashab al-hadith synonymously with ahl al-hadith, like other sources. What makes you think otherwise? Eperoton (talk) 18:50, 28 February 2019 (UTC)

My mistake. ashab al-hadith is synonymous with ahl al-hadith, not muhaddith. Should have read more carefully.--BoogaLouie (talk) 18:54, 28 February 2019 (UTC)

No problem. Good catch on the other use of "traditionist". Eperoton (talk) 19:00, 28 February 2019 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Yonaguni Monument

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User:BoogaLouie/sandbox/proposed CRA

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Edits on Hadith

Hi. I found several issues with your latest edits on Hadith:

• In Note 2, you wrote that 'Shah Waliullah advocated' raising hands during salat (the sentence could even be interpreted as saying that he advocated beating that guy to death). The cited paragraph tells quite the opposite: it is the 'disciples/uneducated masses' who held a strong opinion, while Waliullah only tactfully advised to 'follow the local custom, ... despite ...'.
• You're changing variants that are consistently applied in this and other articles, which is generally never a good idea, at least not without a discussion. In particular your changes from 'hadith' to 'ahadith' do the exact opposite of this recent edit, so please agree with that editor first. WP:MOS-AR advises to prefer only basic transcription, so no diacritics should be used (except in the first line or when discussing linguistics). The ‘ayn and hamzah are usually written, but in Quran it is more frequent to omit it. For example, MOS:ISLAM itself uses Quran and Hadith for the collective term, not ahadith. The article title itself is Quran, so you should discuss that if you want to change it in mass.
• The change 'The reports of behavior to be emulated that were collected' → 'The reports of behavior to emulate collected' seems ungrammatical to me.
• 'Books and journal articles' is very unusual. Long articles on Wikipedia usually have 'References' and 'Bibliography' sections used as in Hadith before, so I don't understand your changes.
• When removing duplicate items you removed the full citation template to "Encyclopedia of Canonical Hadith" instead of the shorter, less informative line.
• Please separate your changes into different edits. It's hard to understand what happened when you change both many small stylistic details and add new full sentences in one edit. The edit summaries should be more descriptive.

The other changes are genuine improvements, so I'd be thankful if you could revert the above and just keep the others. Tokenzero (talk) 22:03, 1 May 2019 (UTC)

Talk:Hagarism

There is a rather incredible discussion going on in the talk page about your recent addition to this article. I'm not certain that all the participants of the discussion have even read what you added, but you may be interested in contributing to the discussion. 2601:243:903:3F5B:45EF:36FB:2D7C:2FA3 (talk) 13:29, 15 May 2019 (UTC)

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June 2019

Your addition to Siege of Mecca (692) has been removed in whole or in part, as it appears to have added copyrighted material to Wikipedia without evidence of permission from the copyright holder. If you are the copyright holder, please read Wikipedia:Donating copyrighted materials for more information on uploading your material to Wikipedia. For legal reasons, Wikipedia cannot accept copyrighted material, including text or images from print publications or from other websites, without an appropriate and verifiable license. All such contributions will be deleted. You may use external websites or publications as a source of information, but not as a source of content, such as sentences or images—you must write using your own words. Wikipedia takes copyright very seriously and persistent violators of our copyright policy will be blocked from editing. See Wikipedia:Copying text from other sources for more information. Material in this edit was copied from EI2 article Hajja b. Yusuf. AhmadLX-)¯\_(ツ)_/¯) 08:38, 8 June 2019 (UTC)

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Nomination of Dawatul Islam for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Dawatul Islam is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Dawatul Islam until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

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Requesting copy edit support

Hi,

Season's greetings

I am looking for proactive copy edit support/input help any of the following (So far neglected but important topic) articles. If you can't spare time but if you know any good references you can note those on talk pages.

• Islamic advice literature

Your user ID was selected randomly (for sake of neutrality) from related other articles changes list related to Islamic culture

• Update : While updating Islamic advice literature, I came across one reference book Political Quietism in Islam: Sunni and Shi’i Practice and Thought While with that I updated article created by you Political quietism in Islam a little bit I suppose you may want to explore and refer book with little more details. Updating you since thought this would be a topic of your interest. And earth is round, in single day I came back to you again with an update :)

Thanks and warm regards

Bookku (talk) 06:45, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

thank you --Louis P. Boog (talk) 19:17, 17 June 2020 (UTC)

Feedback request: History and geography request for comment

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Critism of Hadith/ about ablution

There is a difference between "wajib" (obligatory) and "sunnah" (recommended). Washing one time is obligatory (wajib) , more than one time is recommended (sunna). That distinction is known from many other similar topics like the prayer. In some narratinos a prayer is done and in some its not. Its not a contradiction because it just means some prayers are Sunnah and some Wajib.So there is also no contraction in terms of being an example because that was common method to show, that something is obligatory or not. The same rule applies for ablution.

https://islamqa.info/en/answers/226422/the-obligatory-parts-and-sunnahs-of-wudoo

Whitemonth (talk) 22:51, 21 June 2020 (UTC)

Edit 23.06.2020:

From Wikepedia "a contradiction consists of a logical incompatibility or incongruity between two or more propositions". Thats not the case because its logically possible to wash my hands once and another time thrice. But there is another wrong preassumption, that everything in the hadith is always obligatory (Any source for that ?). There is difference between "saying" and "actions". If the prophet would SAY different things, it could be ambigous for the follower but ACTIONS are not the same. For example there are narrations where he is riding a camel , in another narrations he is riding a horse and in some he is walking. These are not cotradicting each other. It cant be said, its not clear what Muslims should do becaue all of them are allowed. In some narrations the prophet prays in certain times and in some not. These are not contradicting because both are allowed if the prayer is not obligatory. Contradicton would appear if he ORDERS different rulings. I hope its more clear

And what the reliability of the website "Uncorrupted Islam", the author is unknwon and there is no explanationn from credible person to the narrations. Looks like what christian missionaries do — Preceding unsigned comment added by Whitemonth (talk • contribs) 23:38, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

Edit: wikiislam is not a reliable source and anyway is just citing the hadith (like the second source) without any scholarly opion how they understood this narrations or if they saw contradictions. How I said before , there is a difference between ORDERS and just ACTIONS. Only because there are narrations that the prophet sometimes walked and sometimes was riding a camel, there is no contradiction between them. Most of the narrations are like that and there was no contradcition seen. Maybe you have reliable sources where scholars saw contradictions between them